Xbox DRM and the Red Ring of Death

manekineko2 writes "In the latest case warning of the perils of investing in DRM'd media, an owner of an Xbox 360 reports that after his Xbox suffered the infamous Red Ring of Death, it was replaced by a new system with a different serial number. Upon receiving his replacement, he found that he could only access the media he had purchased from a specific account. He also received the run-around for months from customer service before his case was escalated, only to be informed that there is no ETA for a resolution, there is no way to receive status updates on the process, and there is no compensation that will be granted. Given claims that the Xbox 360 defect rate is as high as 1 in 3, has anyone on Slashdot gone through this as well after getting their system exchanged?" Update: 02/14 17:11 GMT by Z : An emailing user noted that the original summary was not very accurate; rephrased to be more in-line with the situation.

Comments

Ummm

[tgd]

You call them. They give you the points you've spent on a temporary XBox Live account, you redownload the software.

After that they'll run fine not logged in on the 360, or on other 360s logged in with the original account.

Its a pain in the ass -- I've had to do it twice, but its not nearly how the story makes it sound.

Re:Ummm

[aikouka]

I thought I heard that they could transfer ownership rights over between consoles?

Also, aren't you supposed to be able to play any media as long as one of these two criteria are met:

1) Original console it was purchased on.
2) Logged into the account that purchased the item.

That's what I've always been told had to happen, but this article shows that is not the case.

Re:Ummm

[king-manic]

You call them. They give you the points you've spent on a temporary XBox Live account, you redownload the software.

After that they'll run fine not logged in on the 360, or on other 360s logged in with the original account.

Its a pain in the ass -- I've had to do it twice, but its not nearly how the story makes it sound. Why didn't they do that in this case? From my experience some agents will break rules to help others are strict policy followers that cause PR problems.

Re:Ummm

[Floritard]

I read on another site (I think it was the Consumerist) that this policy was ceased late last year.

Re:Ummm

[AgentPaper]

According to several of the replying posters on TFA's page, Microsoft no longer offers that program due to concerns about people "recycling" their MS Points (i.e. beating one set of games, getting their points back and then buying new games).

I don't have a 360 myself, so I'm not familiar with how the XBox Live system works, but I can't imagine why the support techs can't simply re-activate this gentleman's games. I've never run across an online marketplace that doesn't include some provision for restoring purchased content that the buyer can prove he purchased (and he clearly can, as the MS/XBox reps apparently had access to his entire Live purchasing history.)

Can anyone else confirm or deny that the program is still in operation, or that MS/XBox support has come up with some means of restoring content to owners of malfunctioning consoles?

Re:Ummm

[QuantumRiff]

Right, and the poster had said that this became a big problem for him, as the XBOX Live account systems have been down multiple times, meaning he couldn't do #2 on your list. He couldn't access the content he had paid for. I'd be a little ticked if I couldn't do stuff because my internet provider or microsoft were having problems..

Re:Ummm

[luke2063]

Purchased XBox Live games can be downloaded again, but with different restrictions - the first time a user downloads their purchase they are able to use it with any account on the XBox and do not have to be signed into XBox Live to play the game. Subsiquent downloads require the purchaser to be signed into XBox live to play their game. This presumably would be to stop someone buying arcade games and then downloading them on all their mates consoles, giving the mates free games, whilst still giving people some freedom to play offline

Re:Ummm

[MyDixieWrecked]

You call them. They give you the points you've spent on a temporary XBox Live account, you redownload the software.

They didn't do that for us. When we got our 360 back from repairs and the content wouldn't play on the other accounts, I called and was told that the purchased content was meant for the account that purchased it and not the others, and the fact that it worked to start doesn't mean that it will always work that way into the future. I was mostly peeved because I was trying to see how many achievements I could unlock in a single round on XBLA games.

I get the feeling that depending on who you happen to talk to at support, you get different stories of how things work. When our 360 originally red-ring'd, we were told that it wouldn't be covered under warranty (we got a Rev-B 360, about a month or two after it was first released), but the unit still worked on and off... it would just occasionally not start up. After MS extended the warranty to a year, we were able to send it in and get it replaced. Although a friend of mine's unit red-ringed a couple days after ours and his got replaced, no questions asked. His also came back in about 8 days, where ours took 3 weeks.

Re:Ummm

[ectal]

That was my experience, too. But it was probably especially easy for me, since I had called the corporate MS number after a long delay in getting my console back and was already assigned to one of their executive support people (escalation specialist, I think they call it). I think with the main Xbox support number, you're flipping a coin at best. I've called about problems and gotten excellent responses, and I've also gotten bad answers/no answers/outright hostility.

Re:Ummm

[Anonymous Coward]

You do not need to be logged in to Xbox live, you just need to be signed in to the box with your user account, which can come along with whatever storage device you are using.

Re:Ummm

[HalcyonJedi]

That is really weird... my console died and I shipped it back to MS without the hard drive. In 3-4 weeks I got a new 360 with a different serial number. I popped in my hard drive to the new console, powered it up, and voila. No problems whatsoever... I have probably a dozen Live Arcade games I've purchased and not once did I have an issue... did MS do something behind the curtains for my account that they skipped or forgot about with others??

Re:Ummm

[nickj6282]

Yeah, they didn't do this for me. I called this weekend because my son couldn't play the games I downloaded from my gamertag on the 360 before it was replaced. I spent an hour on the phone and the final resolution was for them to transfer the content license from the old console to the new one. This required me to fax them the exchange receipt from Best Buy and now I'm on day 3 of the 30 day wait for them to do this.

I'm not confident that this will ever get done, but luckily I have some recourse. Firstly I do have an Xbox Live Gold account, and from personal experience I know that the reps will bend over backward to keep you on the gold account if you call and cancel. I'm thinking that if needed, I can call to cancel and get them to give me enough freebie points to redownload all my stuff (not that I should have to, mind you).

Barring that, all my MS points were purchased on a debit MasterCard issued by a small community credit union that actually cares about it's clients. All I need to do is sit down and fill out a form saying that I didn't get what I paid for when I bought those points, and 24 hours later the cash is back in my account and MS gets hit with the chargeback. It's ugly, but it might be necessary. Mind you, I won't do this unless I've exhausted all other options and made Microsoft well aware of my intent before actually doing it.

Personally, I think that the games should work as long as the account in question is present on the Xbox they are to be played on. That way if I log in to my friend's Xbox and re-download Geometry Wars, he can play it as long as my account is resident on his system. Once I remove the memory card holding my account or recover the account to a different Xbox, the game is rendered unplayable. If MS doesn't want to do that, then how about the option to self-transfer the license a-la the iTunes method of invalidating the license on the old console. Let users do this once every 6 months to a year. That way if someone upgrades from an Arcade to a Pro or Elite or whatever, they can know that their games will work.

Re:Ummm

[EvilIdler]

Yes, you need to be logged in. The original Xbox it was purchased on is like a
hardware key, trumping Live authentication. But if Live is down, you're fucked
if all you have is the original account. I know. I upgraded to an Elite.
Absolutely no extra content with a price tag works, and none of the non-free
XBLA games play anything but trial mode until I log on to Live.

What's worse is that your downloaded content for games now becomes unavailable
to all the other accounts on the same box. The mere presence of the purchasing
account does not help, whether you're online or not. If you want to bring the
console down to the pub for some Rock Band fun, you can't unless they have
'net access.

Re:Ummm

[EvilIdler]

Every six months?! I know people who are on their 5th and 6th console!
Simple math will tell you this can't be often enough ;)

But a self-relicense method IS required. An automatic extension of the
gold account would be nice, too..

Re:Ummm

[powerlord]

Every six months?! I know people who are on their 5th and 6th console!
Simple math will tell you this can't be often enough ;)

But a self-relicense method IS required. An automatic extension of the
gold account would be nice, too..

You're kidding, the 360 doesn't have any way of Self-Relicensing?

How are people on their 2nd (let alone those few on their 5th or 6th) box handling this?

The PS3 came with this "feature" since day 1. Why the heck did MS drop the ball (for so long?) on such a critical part of DLC purchases?

I had also assumed that an automatic extension of a Gold account would have been included in the repair process.

If MS has the nerve to charge you (especially for things PC gamers, Wii gamers, and PS3 gamers are getting for free), they could at least make it work and compensate you for time lost.

Re:Ummm

[Purumus]

So I just finally had all my games restored, most of them were restored (or relicensed as THEY call it) a month ago after having gone through this isnce august 21st. I actually cant believe that i had a very similar experience, except that my machine had a DVD failure, not a red ring, I exchanged it at Best Buy (kept the hard drive) and got the Better Business Bureau (BBB) involved.

My mom was right, the BBB works. Microsoft kept me waiting, never calling me back, never giving me a contact person, always "escalating" only to get the same response, "we're relicensing", and once I called the BBB, within 2 weeks I had MS giving me weekly reports, etc. Funny though, M$ resolved it by doing the silver account points reward, which they told me they would do since the first day... ,.!..

It's just a headache that feels evil. Why do they have a DRM attached to a machine and not a specific key on the storage device? They could addapt an iLok type device or something like a serial key instead of a machine that is faulty. People never complain about losing their game cds because they would have no excuse but be accountable for their negligence. In this case, M$ built a machine that, although loaded with amazing content and a good systems design (XNA, LIVE, Backwards Compat), has faulty hardware. I dont like DRM, but i also dont like classic games being forgotten, therefore making me appreciate their efforts and allowing the games new life span; i also loathe and fear the day that i have no backwards compatability with arcade content ive purchased... more like licensed for the life of the console.

They will rue the day!

Re:Ummm

[HappyDrgn]

I've never run across an online marketplace that doesn't include some provision for restoring purchased content that the buyer can prove he purchased
 
Let me introduce you to iTunes Music Store. An otherwise great service with no way to redownload previous purchases, if say for example your macbook crashes.

Re:Ummm

[AgentPaper]

Funny, that - when Mom's old Gateway laptop locked up and had to be wiped two or three years ago, all she had to do was call Apple Support to get her songs back. They said "oh gosh, we're sorry to hear that, maybe you'd like to consider switching to a Mac? Anyway, we re-authorized all your purchases, but do be sure to back them up this time." Grant you, it wasn't a point-and-click service, but they didn't give her one ounce of grief about giving her access to the stuff she'd bought from them.

Ironically enough, she DID wind up buying a Mac when the Gateway finally went to the great tech shop in the sky. Gotta love that Apple customer care.

Re:Ummm

[HappyDrgn]

When I hit submit I realized someone has to have had a good experience with iTMS, unfortunately it was not me. I was simply told I should have backed up and that they where sorry my pc notebook had taken a dump. As someone else in this thread pointed out, it's the few tight wad support people that make the bad PR moves for the rest of the company. Sure it's a policy of theirs but I imagine policies like this are more designed to stop the would be abusers. Maybe I was thought to be one, or maybe the guy was just a hard ass about it. I certainly believe Apple is a pretty good company in general, as your mother saw, and she repaid that goodness in dollars. As a result, I on the other hand decided to sign up for Yahoo's music service and wrote off the whole downloading local copies of music all together. In the end though it made the most sense for me and who knows maybe I'd have ended up switching anyway. Loosing my music collection with no option to get it back made that decision that much easier however. I'm glad to hear they bent the rules for your mother, it's nice to know there are still some decent people working out there in IT helpdesk land.

Re:Ummm

[Doctor_Jest]

The only problem with that is how difficult it is to get them to give you the points.... Or at least I've heard such from quite a few people who've tried and failed, or tried and finally got them to give in... I'm amazed you got it done twice... (I assume through two dead 360's...) Maybe it's all in how you ask. :) Did you have to get snippy to get it accomplished?

PSN gives you 5 (I can't remember the exact total... at least two... heh) downloads to any box with your account... (I know, I've installed a new HDD in my PS3 and I re-downloaded my purchases no sweat.) It's odd, really... how one company known for it's DRM and draconian tactics is actually being more friendly than the other DRM behemoth. :)

Re:Ummm

[Anonymous Coward]

As an ex Apple technical support agent, I recommend you speak with either Customer Care iTMS people, not technical support to get your songs back. Technical Support does not have the ability to give anything away for free.

Re:Ummm

[Jherek Carnelian]

I've never run across an online marketplace that doesn't include some provision for restoring purchased content that the buyer can prove he purchased Sounds like you've never used iTunes.

Re:Ummm

[EvilIdler]

You're kidding, the 360 doesn't have any way of Self-Relicensing?

How are people on their 2nd (let alone those few on their 5th or 6th) box handling this? Whiskey.

The PS3 does all the technical bits perfectly, while the 360 has most of the cool entertainment.
I'd buy a PS3 once they drop just a wee bit more, but there comes a time when I have to stop
buying hardware and get some games to actually play on it..no PS3 yet, then.

I get back at MS, though. They lost money on my Elite upgrade - I paid less than current full
price for my premium. Plus, I prefer to buy pre-owned from a reputable store. MS only gets their
tax once, except on the dirt-cheap arcade games.

Re:Ummm

[MrNezzer]

I have had this problem in the worst kind of way. I downloaded about 50 dollars worth of games and DL content form xbox live including an expansion to Oblivion (knights of the nine) that I never got the chance to complete. I then moved to a location were broadband internet is unavailable ( no DSL cable or satellite). Shortly after the move I got the RRoD and had my console replaced. Content downloaded from xbox live is linked to the serial number of the console that was used to download it. In my opinion, it should be the HDD not the console. Anyway, after several calls to xbox live customer service, my complaint escellated to management who's only response was, "Sorry, you'll have to find a friend with broadband to redownload your content." I explained that I have no friends or relatives with broadband since I had just moved to the area, the response to that.. "I don't know what your gonna do, too bad for you, sorry to hear that." End of conversation...

Moral of the story:

[king-manic]

Don't buy restrictive DRM. Wii shopping and Xbox live content will only survive as long as your warranty and current machine. Otherwise you will be shelling out to have the manufacturer fix the machine, in some corner cases even if you followed their rules you lose content.

Re:Moral of the story:

[Ark42]

I had my Wii replaced under warranty, and while all of my downloaded virtual console games were gone, when I logged into the Wii Shopping channel, it remembered all of my purchases on my account, and they could all still be downloaded for free. The only downside is all of the Mii's I had stored were transfered over from my old Wii by Nintendo, they could no longer be edited in the Mii Editor because they "were not created on this Wii". That is solvable with the tools that let you edit your Mii's on your computer with a bluetooth dongle, but it has the also unfortunate side-effect of clearing out your Wii Sports records if you do that.

Re:Moral of the story:

[gorbachev]

XBox 360 didn't use to have DRM. It was introduced as a dashboard upgrade in October 2006, 11 months after the launch of the system.

So if you bought downloadable content from the Microsoft XBox Marketplace before the DRM upgrade, you did actually buy DRM-free content. The DRM was applied on it after-the-fact.

Re:Moral of the story:

[Anonymous Coward]

This entire problem really needs to be tagged 'itoldyouso'. These are issues that were raised again and again in the 90s and early in the decade and always dismissed with handwaving about advanced technology or simply called alarmist and sneered at. Well, the DRM and next gen machines arrived, and guess what - they suck in exactly the ways the alarmists said they would.

Re:Moral of the story:

[powerlord]

XBox 360 didn't use to have DRM. It was introduced as a dashboard upgrade in October 2006, 11 months after the launch of the system.

Sounds like an MS Service Pack to me. Introduce things that people don't want, that add to the complexity of the system, change the way things work, and in general make a less desirable and more trouble-filled experience for the end user.

Thank yo MicroSoft.

Re:Moral of the story:

[king-manic]

They did a disk copy of the drm data to the new wii or you got your old wii with the info cleaned out. I swapped and they didn't allow and wouldn't support any form of recovery so I am abstaining from purchasing anything from them.

Re:Moral of the story:

[Ark42]

I got a new wii with a new serial number, and they copied the data over. My Wii Shopping account still remembers everything I purchased on the old serial number and lets me redownload it just fine on the new system.

Heard about this

[Aladrin]

I heard about this a while back, and that's why I've bought -nothing- on my 360 via XBox Live since then. My box is already glitchy and I"m just waiting for it to decide to die.

I also heard that there -is- a way for them to convert the content over, but that they won't do it for most people. I forget the exact details now, but it involved shipping it to them for them to handle it. Obviously, they don't admit it's possible very often... And I assume that's because they'd have to do it with almost every console they fix, further adding to the delays and cost.

Re:Heard about this

[ILuvRamen]

I know what's wrong with yours. It sounds like it's waiting for you to be doing something really important or intense, then it's gonna die. Like a final level or something. So do that so you can get a new one lol.

Re:HAH!

[mjolnir_]

Everything this guy says is totally wrong. He is the world's biggest fanboy. And he drives a pink jetta.

Consumerist-Dot

[Jaysyn]

Wow, what is this? Repost 3 day old stories from The Consumerist day?

Anyhow, AFAIAC anyone who purchases something with DRM in it gets what they deserve when it fails.

Re:Consumerist-Dot

[empaler]

Wow, what is this? Repost 3 day old stories from The Consumerist day? I'd say "You must be new here", but your UID would disagree with me. This isn't "Slashdot: WHAT'S ABSOLUTELY FRESH OFF OF THE BLOGROLLS, Stuff that matters". I don't read the consumerist every day, and if everyone on slashdot did, this story would be completely redundant. If it really irks you to see a story you've read somewhere else before, I'd hate to see what you do with a physical newspaper that you've actually paid for.

Re:Consumerist-Dot

[Jaysyn]

Nah, there was just 2 (Consumerist reposts) in a row on my /. homepage. YMMV!

It worked for me...

[gotroot801]

My Xbox didn't red-ring, but instead was scratching discs at an alarming rate and rendered my copies of several games unplayable. When I sent mine in for repair they gave me a new unit, but all my XBLA games and purchased video on my hard drive played perfectly on the new unit.

My bigger problem was getting them to reimburse me for my lost month of Xbox Live and the destroyed non-MS game discs...

Re:It worked for me...

[Anonymous Coward]

I regularly take my hard drive and pop it in to seperate machines and it works fine with all of my content. Saved games, and XBLA purchases. Maybe there is more to the story? Anybody with an Xbox 360 and a friend who has one too can prove for themselves that this story is most likely some crazy incident that would never happen to the general public or just complete bullshit.

Re:It worked for me...

[geeknado]

That's surprising. I got a card for a month of XBL access when they returned my machine w/o my even having to argue about it...Inconsistent customer service, perhaps?

Re:It worked for me...

[Mia'cova]

The DRM accepts you if you're logged in to live using the account it was purchased on. The alternative is that you're on the console it was purchased on. So you can play games on a friend's 360 for example, but you have to log in. He's complaining because his internet connection goes down frequently and he wants to play offline.

Re:It worked for me...

[HAKdragon]

Microsoft sends out 1 month of Live Gold membership cards to everybody who sent in their console relating to Ring of Death issues. I'm not sure if they do that for other repair issues.

Re:It worked for me...

[geeknado]

Good point-- it's very true that the ring of death issues are being handled as an exception case.

Re:HAH!

[Brian Gordon]

I do agree somewhat with your sentiment.. I have a very hard time sympathizing with anyone (don't mark me troll but I'm going to say it!) stupid enough to purchase DRM'd media from Microsoft. They've consistently shown that they can't be trusted to keep your content usable over the long term- the PlaysForSure fiasco alone should have driven anyone intelligent away from xbox live.

OR, just keep your silver account.

[tacroy]

DRM'd games can also be played as long as you have the silver account that purchased the game. So, for example: I can take my memory card (with account on it) to a friends house and play a game that account purchased, while at the same time my wife can play the same game on my console at home, since it is DRM'd to both.

Re:OR, just keep your silver account.

[provigilman]

Yeah, I always thought the DRM was attached to your GamerTag, not the console. it should be a simple matter of redownloading all of your games, since XBL saves the fact that you purchased and you can download them at a later date if you want. I thought this also applied to your saves and whatnot...

Re:OR, just keep your silver account.

[provigilman]

Sorry for the double post, but I just noticed this in the TFA.

This new replacement console has a different serial number and as a result all of my downloaded content only works now when the purchasing profile is signed into Xbox live. Additional profiles on the system can no longer access the content. I can no longer access the content when I'm not signed into Xbox Live. So any internet issues with my system or Xbox Live (which experienced serious problems for most of last month) means I can no longer use the items I have purchased. As far as I'm concerned since the functionality I had before is now crippled my console has not been repaired.

So he didn't lose his content at all. He access it using the original purchasing profile while signed into XBox Live. I do realize that this is not perfect, but it's also far from inaccessible.

Personally, I only use one profile that automatically signs into XBL, so the only time this would affect would be when my internet is out. Granted, that's not how it works for every user, but I would guess that this is how it works for most of them. It could use some fixing, but in the meantime it's usable.

All MS really needs to do is come up with some way to import the console specific settings during the replacement process. They'be been pretty good about releasing updates to the console as well as the games, and if this is a widespread problem I'm sure it will get addressed. Hopefully sooner, rather than later.

The good news though is that maybe this will spur them to create an import process for the next console. Afterall, they'll probably have a torch carrying mob storming Redmond if you can't play the content you downloaded onto your 360 on the next-gen MS console.

Re:OR, just keep your silver account.

[ashridah]

It's a little from column A, and a little from column B in this area, if memory serves.

Last time I checked the terms, the general deal was that on the original unit you bought the content, it would be usable by anyone with an account on that unit. Additionally, if you logged in with your Xbox live account on someone else's unit, you would be able to download the content again, but only you would be able to use it on that unit, if someone else logged in instead, the content would be unavailable

I haven't verified this, however, and I may have misread the terms (and it may only have been the item I was getting at the time, IIRC, some tracks for GH3)

Re:OR, just keep your silver account.

[RamblinLonghorn]

according to the article, it's tied to both your XBLive tag, and some unique Hardware ID attached to that specific console. That way other people on the same Xbox can play content downloaded onto it, even if they didn't purchase it. When you replace the console, the hardware id is lost, and the only thing left that they can verify is the gamertag. So you can still play the content downloaded with that gamertag, but not with any other.

Re:OR, just keep your silver account.

[LiquidCoooled]

You are right (I think), in that you can redownload the content and play on any console with you logged in.
The problem comes when you are offline, or when one of his other family members are using the original console at home.

In the first case, when not logged in the roaming rights vanish and his content will not play because it is not the original machine.

In the second case, the family members cannot view the content stored on the drive because the content thinks it is not the original purchasers machine so disables viewing.

Re:OR, just keep your silver account.

[NoodleSlayer]

For games when you get a warranty replacement console they do some magic to your account so you can just redownload all the games on the new console and you will be able to play them without being signed in on that console.

It's a bit of a pain but it's not that bad. Whether or not that applies to media (ie. Movies) I don't know, but I guess it doesn't.

Re:OR, just keep your silver account.

[provigilman]

You know, this brings up a good point, for DLC and XBL games anyway.... The guy should be able to delete everything and redownload it for free. The ability to download for free is tied to the gamertag, not the console ID.

The saves and achievement data are also tied to the GamerTag, not the console ID. So, theoretically, you should be able to redownload everything and then just load up your saves and achievement data...it would be like the content was never lost.

Now, you might have to do some magic via a memory card so you can pull your saves off the console so they won't be affected by the deleting action. That'll run you $50 unfortunately....but hey, it would work. And that's only if you need it. If you just redownload the items, it might rewrite the console ID authentication while keeping the saves...I would check with MS Support first on that one though.

I also think this would work for all the movies/TV shows and other content he had downloaded. Again, that should be tied to GamerTag and not console ID. There shouldn't be any sort of a problem with redownloading the content.

Sure, this route is going to require a LOT of downloading...but once it's all done, it should work prefectly.

Re:OR, just keep your silver account.

[xero314]

DLC on the 360 is "attached" to both your GamerTag and the console it was originally Downloaded to. What this means is that you can continue to download and use the content as long as your are either using the the original console or are logged in using your GamerTag.

What this ends up meaning is that when you get a new console, for what ever reason, you can only use your previously DL'ed software when you are logged in to XBox live. This is a real pain for people that have multiple GamerTags in their household, or can't log into XBox live for some reason (cable does go out some times, which happens to be a time you really want your games to be working)

Not to start a console war but this is a place where Sony's system is far superior. Sony does not attach your DLC to your account, but instead attaches on up to 5 (might be yours plus 5, not sure off the top of my head) "active" systems. You do not need to be logged in on any of those systems to get the content to work. If for some reason you have to replace your console you can contact Sony and have the old one deactivated, which will cause the DLC on that system to no longer work, and allow you to DL the software onto a new active system.

Re:OR, just keep your silver account.

[C0rinthian]

Personally, I only use one profile that automatically signs into XBL, so the only time this would affect would be when my internet is out. Granted, that's not how it works for every user, but I would guess that this is how it works for most of them. It could use some fixing, but in the meantime it's usable. But it's not usable. (Not as it originally was)

Say you have Rock Band, and you buy a bunch of DLC tracks. If you get 3 friends over, you can play those tracks in a band. Cool.

Then your Xbox dies and you get it replaced. If I'm reading this stuff correctly, then when you try to do the above, it won't work. Because now, only the purchasing profile (yours) has the rights to use the DLC. No more DLC for your band unless your three friends have bought the tracks on their own live accounts. This goes for anything that is multiplayer, including Live Arcade games. You'll only be able to play trial versions if you have friends over.

Obviously, this is not acceptable.

Re:OR, just keep your silver account.

[Nitar]

In your specific case, it may not be inaccessible. However, in my case it is. If you have other people using your 360 with their own gamertags, only the gamertag that PURCHASED the content from the XBox Marketplace is allowed to use it. Also, it only works if you are connected to the internet on your 360.

Unfortunately, I purchased many of the arcade games for my kids, who have their own gamertags. Now they can no longer play the titles.

This is a HUGE problem in my opinion, and I've been screwed over by Microsoft regarding this issue since August, 2007. I have called them on multiple occasions, and they have even called me once. Unfortunately every single interaction results in them saying that it will be fixed, but that they have no idea when.

This can also be translated to: Screw you, we took your money and we don't have to do anything to help you now.

I really like the games on the 360, but stuff like this is very very frustrating. There seems to be no recourse that can be taken in order to get your points refunded, or the games reactivated on the console. I've spent a decent amount of money on downloadable content... maybe $150 - $200. Maybe they just don't want to bother, but I sure won't be buying any more until the problem is fixed.

If anyone HAS had success with this, I'd really like to know how you went about getting the problem resolved.

Re:OR, just keep your silver account.

[provigilman]

Just out of curiosity...have you actually tried deleting and redownloading the games? XBL keeps a purchasing record tied to your GamerTag so that you can always redownload something you deleted. Try that with one of your games and see if it fixes the problem, I'm very interested to know.

Re:OR, just keep your silver account.

[NoodleSlayer]

For the games I didn't even have to delete, and the download it'd see that it was already there and just update the DRM. Granted navigating the UI is slow and painful, but it works.

Re:OR, just keep your silver account.

[Nitar]

I have tried that, and unfortunately it doesn't work. What they don't tell you initially is that the content is not only tied to your GamerTag, but it is also tied to console hardware itself. It will work on ANY console as long as you are logged in with your GamerTag AND connected to XBox Live. But if you want other people to use your content, when your GamerTag is not logged in, it can only be on the actual hardware that you used when you purchased it.

As soon as you get a console with a new serial number, you can no longer play it in 'offline' mode.

Re:OR, just keep your silver account.

[Anonymous Coward]

Get a PS3. It doesn't have any of this crap. Only caveat. If you buy Warhawk, go for the Blu-Ray version. The PSN version is the only game I am aware of whose use is limited to only the account that purchased it.

All the other DLC is usable by anyone, so long as the purchasers account is on the system, and up to 5 systems can be "authorized" by that account at any one time (and you can call Sony to de-authorize an account if your PS3 breaks and you had it replaced, or do it yourself through their on-line system).

DRM or Microsoft?

[webword]

Seems like this is more of a Microsoft issue than DRM.

Microsfot: "Have DRM, will attempt to screw!"

Nope.

[Anonymous Coward]

Nope, hasn't happened to me. Maybe this troll post shouldn't have been greenlit.

Even better than that

[Actually, I do RTFA]

To my understanding, the points they give you are equal to what you spent, but not earmarked. That is, you get an equivalent value of content, but if you no longer like what you purchased you can get other media in exchange.

Which seems like a reasonable perk to extend to people who have to go through that rigormorale.

Re:Even better than that

[tgd]

Yup, the stuff I bought the second time didn't necessarily match the stuff I got suckered into buying the first time.

trade in

[hellfish006]

Between my roommate and I we each returned a 360 to get fixed from the Red Ring of Death, both work perfectly fine now, never had an issue from it. still loud as fuck though

How does I play videa gaems????

[Middle - Adopter]

"This new replacement console has a different serial number and as a result all of my downloaded content only works now when the purchasing profile is signed into Xbox live. Additional profiles on the system can no longer access the content. I can no longer access the content when I'm not signed into Xbox Live."

Booyah, if you RTFA you see he CAN access all the stuff he bought/downloaded, albeit if in a somewhat more limited way than before. Sucks, but still.

Anyway I thought whiny retards only bought PS3s (lol jk)

Know why they call it the Xbox 360?

[Anonymous Coward]

Because when you see it, you'll turn 360 degrees and walk away.

Re:Know why they call it the Xbox 360?

[jim.hansson]

back to school for you, 180 maybe :-)

Re:Know why they call it the Xbox 360?

[geminidomino]

How do you know? Maybe he does the hokey-pokey before snubbing game consoles?

Re:Know why they call it the Xbox 360?

[DRAGONWEEZEL]

so you'll walk right into the X-Box? I heard it was good, but since Gates won't challenge me to a PC vs. Xbox game of Halo (w/ me on the PC of course) then I guess I'll never get close enough to one to know!

Re:Know why they call it the Xbox 360?

[arotenbe]

Maybe he meant to imply that he would step on it on his way out.

Re:Know why they call it the Xbox 360?

[Sangui]

It does not specify how the person walked away. I present to you, the moonwalk.

Re:Know why they call it the Xbox 360?

[Anonymous Coward]

i so want so have seen that

Re:Know why they call it the Xbox 360?

[PopeGumby]

How do you know? Maybe he does the hokey-pokey before snubbing game consoles?

That's what it's all about.

OOOHHHHH....

Summary inaccurate...

[the_skywise]

because upon receiving his replacement, he found that he could no longer access any of the media he had purchased through Xbox Live.

Uh... no... RTFA...

This new replacement console has a different serial number and as a result all of my downloaded content only works now when the purchasing profile is signed into Xbox live. Additional profiles on the system can no longer access the content. I can no longer access the content when I'm not signed into Xbox Live.

I'm not saying it's not a problem... it is... You get the same situation if you try to upgrade to an Elite or a unit with HDMI as well (and MS doesn't reimburse you points for that) But you're not 100% cut off from your media (You just have to be logged in...all the time... like even during XBox Live downtimes...).

Re:Summary inaccurate...

[powerlord]

It too bad there isn't an alternative out there that was more friendly to this sort of thing. You know ...

... a console that would let you download your DLC as many times as you wanted to up to five 'registered' consoles, with the same rights on each download.

... a console where almost all of the DLC can be played by any Profile on the console as long as a Profile that purchased the content was on still loaded on the console.

... a console where you can upgrade the hard-drive yourself maybe, instead of requiring a costly, proprietary drive.

... a console where you can use a standard (cheap) USB drive you have to transfer save games, instead of expensive proprietary memory cards.

... How about a console that simply DOESN'T suffer from the RRoD hardware failure rates that the XBox 360 has seen?

It really is too bad there isn't an alternative.

Re:Summary inaccurate...

[PopeGumby]

It really is too bad there isn't an alternative.

Thats terrific. I'm seriously considering this alternative. Tell me - how do I play Saint's Row on this alternative? After all, it's one of my favourite games, and I've played it to death...

Oh, I can't?

Okay, well then how about Viva pinata? My girlfriend and I love playing that together, its so much simplistic fun.

Oh, I can't.

Well, one of my favourite multiplayer experiences is Halo3, surely I can play that on this "alternative" system? No?

Well, I guess since it's missing all these games I like playing, the system will be pretty cheap? No? MORE expensive, you say? Why's that? Oh, its forcing me to choose sides in a format war? Well, isnt that exciting.

PASS.

Re:Summary inaccurate...

[MikeBabcock]

... a console that has free downloads of demos and previews and other content? ... a console that has free online services? ... a console with free online multiplayer? ... a console that has a built-in backup feature to let you back up all of your content, including DRM'd content to an external drive? ... a console that lets you install a 3rd party OS onto it legitimately? ... or maybe a console whose online multiplayer games include 1080p and 4 player split-screen with simultaneous online play with up to 32 players (40 for other games).

Naw, that'd be too good to be true.

Re:Summary inaccurate...

[powerlord]

Good points, although I'd start by pointing out that there are a number of games that are unique to each console.

- Saint's Row 2 is due out for both consoles at the same time. If you've loved the first one so much that you've "played it to death", the second might be enjoyable.

- I'd suggest getting Viva Pinata for Windows. You'll have no problems with this DRM download nonsense, and be ale to use your existing controllers if you have to send your 360 in for repairs, or decide to upgrade the model. I'd also suggest checking out Snakeball and PixelJunk Monsters on the PS3. I'm not offering these as "apples to apples" replacements for Viva Pinata. Both just seem like they might fit the bill for "fun, quirky, multiplayer" that you're looking for.

- Halo3 is a fun game. You're right, it is an MS exclusive. I'd look at Warhawk for fun "battlefield" type play, or Resistance:Fall of Man for more gritty multiplayer. Both support 32 players per match (with Resistance 2 announced to support 40). VideoChat, and Multiplayer gaming are also thrown in "free".

- The XBox 360 Pro retails for $350 and includes a free headset, a 20GB HardDrive and one month of Gold (VideoChat and Multiplayer Gameplay).

- The 40GB PlayStation 3 retails for $400 and includes a 40GB HardDrive, built-in WiFi, a "lifetime" of Gold features, and a Blu-Ray drive. So I'd hardly call the $50 bucks a huge difference.

- As for choosing sides in a "format war", according to an article from the Hollywood Reported even Toshiba is just about ready to admit HD-DVD is dead and Blu-Ray is the winner, so I don't see how getting a Blu-Ray drive, essentially for either $50, or "Free" with the console.

You're more than welcome to pass, and I appreciate that you spent the time to consider your options.

You certainly have the right to

He should sue in small claims court

[davidwr]

It sounds like Microsoft owes him a fresh copy of everything he's bought from MS or through MS's store, plus his out-of-pocket costs for non-MS software he lost access to if any, plus his lost time for not offering him this refund from day one.

I hope he doesn't ask for $54 million.

Re:He should sue in small claims court

[jim.hansson]

you insensitive clod, i thought 54 million was the universial number to ask for (in the USA)

How has this just now become an issue?

[brouski]

How many thousands of consoles have failed since Xbox Live started selling movies/shows? This is just now becoming a news item?

Re:How has this just now become an issue?

[BoChen456]

Because its not an issue, the only problem is that you have to be logged on with a specific xbox live account to play. Big deal. The misleading summary is just trying to be sensationalist. FAIL!

Defect rate of 1 and 3?

[Cornflake917]

There is some serious bias in the summary. It's implying that the XBox 360 currently has a defect rate in 1 and 3, but if you read the linked wikipedia entry, that number was stated for the initial defect rate of the original models. The newer consoles have a much lower defect rate.

That and trying to say that you couldn't access the content on a different 360, why don't you just come out and say it, you're an anti-ms trash talking troll.

Re:Defect rate of 1 and 3?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah it's as low as 1 in 6 now.

Totally Inaccurate

[labalicious]

I had an xbox 360 that was manufactured in 2005 (xmas gift 2006). It died about 6 months after. I had my 360 return experience of me shipping my xbox to them, the workers in receiving shaking the box and sending it back to me, and then me shipping it back to them. Long story short, the second time around, they shipped me a brand new xbox. In the meantime of waiting, I bought a xbox elite. I sold the new one that they send to me to a co-worker. I wiped the hard drive because without a transfer cable, you don't get your old content back. I was looking around in the xbox marketplace when I noticed you could look up everything you ever downloaded. From this screen, I re downloaded everything that I thought I would never get back, 2 or 3 episodes of Reno 911, a few arcade games, etc. This is completely inaccurate story. HTH. YMMV.

Re:Totally Inaccurate

[Anonymous Coward]

One of the original selling points was that things bought on an Xbox 360 would always be accesible on that Xbox, irrespective of what GamerTag is in use, OR accessable by that GamerTag irrespective of which XBox it's currently signed in on.

Consequently, you've lost half your access rights. (You only have access via your GamerTag.)

This didn't happen to me

[SilentChris]

What happened to me:

1.) Red ring of death (fuck you, Microsoft).
2.) TAKE HARD DRIVE OFF CONSOLE. Send in console for repair.
3.) Get different console with different serial number back. Place hard drive on it.
4.) Console wants to verify my Live account online. Go for it.
5.) All content accessible.

So I'm not really sure what happened to this guy.

Re:This didn't happen to me

[the_skywise]

But can you play your content when you're not logged on?

Re:This didn't happen to me

[vicious0000]

Agreed. I have the exact same experience as SilentChris. They TELL YOU to keep your hard drive when you send the console in for repair. You get a new console back, set up your account info, and it works. I've had to send my 360 back once so far, and have not had any problems with content I've downloaded and paid for. And YES, I can still play all my content while offline.

Re:This didn't happen to me

[AbRASiON]

"5.) All content accessible."

ONLY when signed in to your Xbox Live account, other users of your Xbox have to now use your account to access the stuff they could previously get under their own 'local' profiles.

Re:This didn't happen to me

[Taulin]

I have the same issue. I bought CSOTN theme, and it only kicks in when I log into Live. I had my 360 fixed, but it came back in the same shell, and SN on the back.. However, since I had to download and install all the updates again, I guess they replaced the insides.

Re:This didn't happen to me

[Is0m0rph]

Same thing here. I had no issue with playing content from old box on new box. I think this is some kind of myth that happened to a couple people and it spread throughout the net that it happens to everyone.

Re:This didn't happen to me

[Moonpie Madness]

No, it's not really a myth if it's true. You can't access your content unless you're logged in, and though this is only a sometimes occasional maybe restriction, it's less than what you paid for, and it's legitimate for customers to complain when they don't get what they paid for.

It is awful enough that 360s are the least reliable console ever (I'm kinda mad because mine failed recently). After that delay in getting a working system, it's kinda lame that we are then punished, even if only a little bit.

MS has its subscription theory it is moving towards, slowly but surely, and these little problems are symptoms of a great disease.

Re:This didn't happen to me

[Is0m0rph]

I wonder what the requirements are for this to happen? I know I did not get the same Xbox 360 back when mine failed last year but I kept the hard drive of course. I can play all my arcade games offline, I was off the internet for several days just recently and they all worked fine.

Re:This didn't happen to me

[CaseM]

How about a 4a or a 4b?

4a. No Internet access or Xbox Live is down

4b. Multiple gamertags in the same household

That changes your #5 to:

5. All purchased DLC inaccessible

My experience differs

[Xest]

I've been through 2 360s and each time MS have turned it round into a positive experience for me, as the first time they told me to make a new free silver account and they'd credit the points to that account so I could rebuy and they did this within 3 days which is fine, whilst some may argue the console shouldn't die in the first place I got a there and then swap out from the retailer, furthermore I was given £30 worth of MS points for my troubles.

The second time it happened I got one of the new Falcon chipset 360s with HDMI which is a great thing for me in the first place as my monitor wont do 1080p over analog VGA so I finally got the option to run at 1080p with this new console. They also now have a set procedure for porting ownership of content to a new console and have done for a fair while whereby you merely submit your new console ID and a scan/fax of the replacement receipt from the retailer and they'll port the content ownership to the new system. Again, I was given a free 2100 points, not as much as last time but still something.

So the second time I got a sweet new V2 console and both times I got nice fresh new controllers and headsets which is a bonus as those type of things get a bit worn and tatty after a while anyway.

Should the system fail? Well of course not, but to suggest the process with dealing with faulty consoles is a big deal I think is a bit silly, having known 2 other people with RROD'd 360s who have also had similar experiences to me in that it's been quick and easy. Of course people have bad support experiences, personally I'd never purchase from Dell ever again as the result of such an experience but with bad support experiences on the net it's very easy to bend the truth a little, as I say what strikes me as odd is my last console was dealt with about 3 months ago and when I called support they were well aware of the issue and also the set procedure I mentioned they now have for dealing with DRM moves (rather than the previous aformentioned method of granting you points to rebuy on a new account to re-tie the games to a new console).

Besides, I'm not sure why this is news, the V2 consoles have been out ages now so the RROD whine is rather obsolete and I'm rather suprised to see last years whine making headlines again, aren't we supposed to be laughing at MS about how HD-DVD failed or something instead now?

Don't get me wrong, no DRM at all would be the best solution but let's face it, how many people would just copy games onto memory cards and pass round to their mates? Hell, you can even get memory card/360 hard drive to USB adapters so likely people would just grab them off bittorrent! I'm against DRM on a PC because it's a failed concept but on a console I see it as part of the package and in a way, one of the main tools consoles have for defeating cheating that is a major issue in online PC gaming.

Re:My experience differs

[davros74]

I have had RROD once, but MS updated my account with the new serial number, so I had to re-download everything but after that it was back to normal.

However, I'm in a similar situation as you - I now have a 1080p TV that does not accept 1080p except on HDMI, but my Xbox360 is too old (plus it's loud, hot and older than my original before it died). The only thing stopping me from getting a new Falcon based Xbox360 with HDMI is I have too much downloaded game content I don't want to lose - and I need to be able to use it when I don't have a broadband connection readily available.

Is this form to update a new console serial number on MS's web page? I have not heard much about this - it is what most people have been screaming for since day one. Just let us buy a new (non-RROD prone) box, and move all the account info over. I understand the need for DRM, but how hard is it to let the user change their serial number once every 6 months or something? I hate being stuck with this 01/2006 xbox360 which is loud and hot and could die at any minute.

I would like to do a one-time transfer of everything to a new Xbox360 console (not Elite, just a newer Pro w/ HDMI) - if there is an approved method for doing it, please share in more detail the procedure.

Re:My experience differs

[Anonymous Coward]

the solution that is most reasonable has been presented but MS refuses to do it. Allow users to register new xbox's as their main oen tied to their account. wow how f'ing hard is that?

Re:My experience differs

[Xest]

If it's a replacement console you can just do it via support, but as I say they do ask for a scan of the replacement receipt so I'm not sure they do it on additionally purchased consoles.

I suppose you could claim your old console died and was out of warranty so you just bought a new one and try that, or even perhaps just be honest it may simply be that the procedure is slightly different for the situation you mentioned. I'm assuming the issue is that they don't want to transfer to a new console if they can't prove the old console is dead, because otherwise that old console might not really be dead and if it's never connected to the internet again it would never get it's licenses revoked so they can be moved to the new console.

Re:My experience differs

[SuiteSisterMary]

I hate to be one of those 'just google it!' people, but, unfortunately, this is the first thing that comes up for 'xbox 360 hard drive transfer' on a Google search. Emphasis mine to illustrate that this isn't Elite-specific.

This kit lets you transfer content from your Xbox 360® 20GB hard drive to another Xbox 360 20GB or Xbox 360 120GB hard drive.

Re:My experience differs

[Breakfast Pants]

Nice astroturfing, Bill.

Re:My experience differs

[tweak13]

If you'd actually read the page you found, you'd realize that it will create the same problem talked about in the article. After transfer you'd need to be connected to xbox live in order to play downloaded content. That situation isn't acceptable.

Re:My experience differs

[JebusIsLord]

That's not what they mean. After the data is transfered, you won't be able to play it unless you are signed in to xbox live. Or, if they transfer the license to the new console serial #.

Re:My experience differs

[SuiteSisterMary]

Yes, but this is by design. Unless you can show me a document somewhere that states content *is* transferable from hardware to hardware, which they're now failing to live up to...?

Quite honestly, this is all the same as somebody hacking up some GPL'd software they'd downloaded, then acting all surprised that they were expected to then release the source. Live Content has always been tied to the hardware, then the Live account.

Yes, this had a hell of an unexpected consequence when they had defective consoles, but it's an awfully easy fix, one would think; revoke the old license, issue a new license.

reply to Xbox 360 DRM Red Rings

[Jimmy_Demonic]

I'm currently going through this scenario, I had my 360 a little less then a year when it suffered the 3Red Lights...so I sent it off for repair, confident it would be fixed. Instead, I was told the original was unrepairable, and was sent a replacement. I was fine with this, until it wouldn't play anything I'd previously downloaded...which was irksome...and being busy with college and work I had no chance to call M$ to figure out how to solve it. Three days later, the replacement system suffered the 3RL...I was aghast...and immediately on the phone. Supposedly the second system is on it's way back to me...let's hope I can recover my downloaded content/television shows...and that I don't have to firebomb a certain company...but I'm not bitter at all.

"Whiny retards"? See also Fanboi Trolls

[Moryath]

Lessee... I've got the same issue. Sent my 360 in for (the THIRD TIME) repair (1 RROD, 2 dead DVD-Rom drives) to discover that in order to see the extra content in Oblivion, Rock Band, Guitar Hero 2/3 it has to be logged in on my name.

My roommate keeps his own profile so we can keep our saves and info separate. His fucking savegames broke on Oblivion because with the replacement box it now won't load up the expansion content.

Interestingly, this only happened THIS time, the other two times the replacement XB360 worked fine. Which means this is something in the DRM that MICROSOFT CHANGED RECENTLY.

Fuck this crap. MS screwed up royally. This isn't "can still access it in a limited way", this is fucking bullshit.

Re:"Whiny retards"? See also Fanboi Trolls

[Anonymous Coward]

Try a PS3. It has better hardware stability, the DRM is much more manageable (up to five consoles can be activated at once, each with the same rights, and almost all DLC is authorized for anyone on the console, so long as A Profile that purchased the content is still installed).

The game selection may currently be weaker than the 360, but its improved dramatically in the past 3 months and is set to reach parity (or surpass it) in the coming months).

The DLC content has caught up, and quite a few of the downloadable games are unique and addictive.

The only major thing the 360 still holds over the PS3 is online features, and once Home and the new in-game XMB launch in PS3, that'll be gone also.

They Still Make Those?

[Anonymous Coward]

I didn't realize Xbox 360 was still on the market. I've been having too much fun playing my Wii!

Re:They Still Make Those?

[Runefox]

I dunno, I rarely play my Wii. It's usually the PC or the 360; There's not much in the way of really good, must-have games on the Wii that really pique my interest.

Small Claims Court

[immcintosh]

Seems to me this is the sort of thing small claims court was created for. It's cheap, and with such a small amount at stake MS would probably just not show up and he'd win a default judgment. Clearly with all the effort he's put into it up until this point, it's something he'd be willing to go through the trouble of a court hearing over.

Re:Ummm, not quite

[gorbachev]

Actually, they don't do this any more.

It's no longer "policy" by Microsoft to give you MS points to cover the DLC you can't use any more.

Apparently, according to comments on the Consumerist article, they stopped doing that sometime in October or November last year.

I think that's reprehensible.

keep your drive

[shlepp]

I don't know what that guy did but when my 360 failed after 3 years of use just now, I sent it in, kept my hard drive here. When i got my replacement I simply put the hard drive back on and i was back in business playing my games and had all my old data is still there and full functional, including all my music I ripped from cd's and they still played.

One ring...

[corychristison]

... to rule them all!

Sorry, just had to.

Seriously, < insert boring old lame DRM quote here >

So going through more than on console is the norm?

[pembo13]

A lot of people are mentioning returning their consoles for replacement, and going through more than one as if it is the accepted norm. Is this really so?

Re:So going through more than on console is the no

[Alexpkeaton1010]

Yes. I had my 4th overall failure on Friday (first failure on replacement console). Although the 360 has the without a doubt the best catalog of games, when my 360 comes back I am going to trade it in for a PS3. I just don't trust the 360 when my warranty runs out.

Something's seriously wrong with this story

[Osty]

According to the article, this happened recently (Feb 2008). However Microsoft has had a solution for DRM problems on consoles replaced through warranty repair since May or June of 2007. I don't think they publicize it like they should, but the last time I went through repair was June and the process was brand new so maybe they do better now.

Anyway, it works like this:

1. Your Xbox 360 breaks. You call support, schedule a repair, and send it in. KEEP YOUR HARD DRIVE (though this only matters if you care about your save games)
2. You receive your replacement console 1-3 weeks later.
3. You drill down in your account information off of the Marketplace blade to find your Download History.
4. You go through your download history, re-downloading each DRM-protected piece of content you wish to be able to use offline on your new console.
5. The downloads go extremely quickly, because you kept your hard drive. You're not actually re-downloading the whole content (that would suck for a 6GB Xbox Original game, for example). Instead, you're just downloading a new key that will sign the content to the new console ID.

As of right now, this process is only available if you go through the official Microsoft repair process (in warranty, or for $100 out of warranty). If you use a store replacement warranty, take advantage of a store's lenient return policy like CostCo used to have, or replace the console yourself (because you want to upgrade, or you hacked your console and it won't make it through official repairs), you're screwed. The rekeying process requires manual intervention to invalidate the old console ID and set up the content to retrieve a new key when you download it again.

Yes, it's a rather tedious process and it would be great if there was a "Download all premium content again" option to make it go quicker, but that's beside the point. The only value to this article is to show that customer support agents can suck. But we all knew that already, right?

Re:Something's seriously wrong with this story

[powerlord]

Considering out easy it is, I'm surprised that MS doesn't just give the user a button in the menus to "tie this console as my main GamerTag console".

Then anyone could do it themselves, and people would have no fear of losing their content.

It might also be a boon in support and sales, since more people might just replace the console themselves without bothering to go through the normal channels, or upgrade hardware they were afraid to replace.

Re:Something's seriously wrong with this story

[Osty]

Considering out easy it is, I'm surprised that MS doesn't just give the user a button in the menus to "tie this console as my main GamerTag console".

That risks breaking the DRM. Consider you purchase a TV show (you buy those, not rent like movies), take console offline, move the hard drive to another console, and tie the content to that new one. If you never bring that first console back online, it still thinks the media is tied to that console. Now imagine if I do that and share that TV show out with all of my friends, who won't go back online until they're done watching that show. I just "broke" the DRM. I think that's probably the biggest reason why there's no DRM transfer option for upgrades or store warranties yet, and also why it works in the warranty repair scenario (because they have physical access to your old console, thus you cannot keep an authorized offline copy of stuff).

Re:Something's seriously wrong with this story

[Anonymous Coward]

Great post. Thanks for the info. After I got my fixed 360, there was no info about that included in my fixed console. I was not aware of that new feature.

Re:Something's seriously wrong with this story

[Hal0n]

Yes, unless you go through the official repair process they are absolutely unwilling to be of any assistance. My console dies, (no RRoD, the GPU appears to have fried) and I go buy a new Arcade 360. If my network blips for a second, I'm back in trial mode for any game I PURCHASED on the previous console. I don't know about most of you, but the casual games have been a huge sell with my girlfriend. I like spending time doing things together with her, so I've bought a ton of XBLA games. I'm sure this is a 10-second fix on their end. If they're keeping all of this on MSSQL databases, I'd be happy to send them a few articles from Microsoft.com on finding and replacing values from tables in a MSSQL database. Frak this has been frustrating. Gamertag=Hal0n

Wow

[Anonymous Coward]

How does Microsoft get away with this garbage? Even the biggest auto manufacturers are harshly punished if they tried to get away with a failure rate this bad -- sure, there are recalls, but even the replacements don't work. "Yeah, we recalled your 2006 Ford ThreeSixty and replaced it, but it still has the same problem of randomly stalling when you hit the brake that the old version had."

How can Microsoft get away with this garbage? Why haven't consumers punished them for it by voting against Microsoft with their wallets?

Anonymous Coward because if I were to actually put my name to this, I'd be modded down as a troll, but as Anonymous I'll probably be modded up. Further proof that you can't trust the unwashed masses to do anything right.

Same problem for me...

[CokoBWare]

I had the same problem... I had another gamer tag and for the reason for moving to the US, I had to create a new one. When I got a RRoD, I turned in my console, and got a refurbed one. Then when I tried playing quite a number of games that I had downloaded via XBox Live Arcade, they no longer worked. I contacted XBox technical support, and they basically couldn't troublshoot my issue. I gave up, but honestly, I wish I could get the 4 or games back working again... they were fun to play, and expensive.

Yeah, screw that.

[jasen666]

And this is why I just download or rip whatever I'd like to watch to my PC, and then use Winamp Remote to view it upstairs on the big TV with my 360. /arrr

Re:Yeah, screw that.

[tepples]

And this is why I just download or rip whatever I'd like to watch to my PC, and then use Winamp Remote to view it upstairs on the big TV with my 360. /arrr So what do you do when you have friends over and you all want to play a game, not watch a movie?

Re:Yeah, screw that.

[jasen666]

er... we put a game in the xbox's DVD drive?
How do you play games on game consoles?

Re:Yeah, screw that.

[tepples]

er... we put a game in the xbox's DVD drive? But what if the game is not on a DVD? What if it's a game by a developer that's too small to get its products onto Xbox Live?

Re:Yeah, screw that.

[jasen666]

Then we, and the developer, are fucked?
Again, I fail to see the relevance to what I posted.

Would someone like to explain what my downloading of TV shows to my computer and playing them on my xbox has shit to do with what games I choose to play?

Not just DRM

[Anonymous Coward]

DRM was only the beginning.

If you replace your old Xbox360 console with a new one you will not be able to use your new console to its full capacity with your old account. Games like Halo 3 will refuse to download content to your new Xbox360 using your old account full stop.

Neither will you be able to play some video content unless you go online every single time.
We have all been used to games consoles being closed proprietary systems but Microsoft policies much surely set a new low point. This goes well beyond DRM.

Xbox 360 and PS3 are not perfect substitutes

[tepples]

It too bad there isn't an alternative out there that was more friendly to this sort of thing. Xbox 360 and PLAYSTATION 3 are not as perfect of substitutes as you make them out to be. Case in point: Xbox 360 has downloadable Lumines. GBA has a downloadable Lumines clone. But the PS3 does not have Lumines, nor does it have any other downloadable product with the same rules as Lumines.

Re:Xbox 360 and PS3 are not perfect substitutes

[powerlord]

Absolutely true. You're right, they are not a perfect subset. However they are competing in the same marketplace, which makes it an alternative. Do PS3 players wish they had Mass Effect? Some probably do. Do 360 players wish they had Metal Gear 4? Again, some probably do.

There isn't really a 360 version of PixelJunk Monsters either (if we want to look at DLC). The PC has DeskTop Tower Defender, but thats not really the same experience.

I'm sure some of the gamers on each system would also sell their firstborn for Mario Galaxy.

As a competitor in the same general space (of video game consoles), and with a rather large amount of overlap (in multi-platform games, and game types for exclusives), the PS3 is MUCH more friendly in its DRM than the 360 is though.

BTW, If Lumines is your killer game though, I'd suggest getting a PSP (the platform it first came out on). The new PSPs connect nicely to a TV at home, and you can take it with you when you go out.

Re:Xbox 360 and PS3 are not perfect substitutes

[iainl]

Lumines Plus is available for the PS2, however, so if you've got a fully-featured PS3 you can play it by putting the disc in. If you've got a 40Gb PS3 then you're stuffed, yes.

Unrelated Information

[ObiWanStevobi]

He could only access purchased items with a specific account

A lot of Xbox Live content is tied to specific accounts, the machine having a different serial and red rings have nothing to do with it. While it does effectively double the cost of having multiple Live accounts on the same box, it also lets you transfer your user and content to any box you are playing on. My guess is he hadn't tried accessing the content with another account before, otherwise he would have noticed it before the red rings.

Damn, which P.R. firm are you working for...

[gmezero]

That's an impressive post.

Our 360 died also a few months back. I'm totally pissed about the "gotta be logged in" to play my games crap. I absolutely, unequivocally do not like the idea that I MUST have my 360 actively connected to the Internet at all times that I want to play my purchased games.

My 360 is connected to our network via a hardline in our entertainment center. If I want to move the system to another room to play (eg, bedroom, etc...), I need to drag a network wire across my house and hope nobody trips over it... Or, elect not to play any of the games that I play on the system (my kids mostly play the games off physical media).

While we're on that subject, who else here thinks the Arcade collection is a scam? So you buy this disc of games instead of downloading them and guess what? The achievements and points earned from them only apply IF the CD is in the system. Otherwise you loose the achievements until you put the disc back in. Get a great score on one of those games and you're ranking is only applicable while the CD is in the drive. Talk about damaged by design.

I've really about had it with this whole DRM method, and I'm hoping that someone comes up with a solid off-line crack method for both the 360 and Wii so when the systems go into retirement, I can still play the games I've bought.

Re:Damn, which P.R. firm are you working for...

[Xest]

So have you actually tried calling XBox tech. support to switch the DRM licenses to your new console?

That'll solve the very issue you're talking about as mentioned in my other post and you'll almost certainly also get some free extra points as compensation.

I know what you mean, the situation sucks, I didn't like it either but my point here has been that despite the fact I really didn't like the situation, Microsoft did a fair bit to not only resolve but compensate me for the issue too. It is a pain in the arse dealing with those offshore call centres that barely speak your language, but it doesn't take too long and it's worth it to get the problem resolved surely?

My experience

[Anonymous Coward]

My roommate and I share and XBox 360. We both have an XBL account and alternate purchasing some games from the XBL store. I was a good part of the way through Castlevania: Symphony of the Night (that my roommate purchased) when we experienced a red ring of death (that's the second one we've had in 2 years).

After waiting the many weeks for a refurbished system to arrive, I found I could no longer access any of my save games for Castlevania because it was only authorized on my roommate's account. Up until this point in time it never occurred to me that this could happen (my fault for not educated myself, I guess). We were not given any points to redownload the game, so if I want to finish it I have no choice but to start over under my roommate's account. I just gave up at that point and now only download games for the Wii.

Needless to say, I'm not overly thrilled with our multiple hardware failures and the loss of use of some games we paid for. The problem is that I used to be able to play the game before the hardware failure. If they're gonna set up their DRM this way, why not just tie the game to a specific account in the first place so I wouldn't have wasted all that time?

I have one.

[Moryath]

There has YET to be a game to be worth buying for it that's not also on other consoles. With better built-in netplay.

Worst fucking waste of $600 ever - all I got was a $600 upsampling DVD player.

And I'll believe Home and the in-game XMB when I see them. Which should be about the time Duke Nukem Forever launches.

Re:Ummm, not quite

[Creepy Crawler]

Well, anybody who bought this heaping pile of shit and didn't expect this kind of behavior to ensue deserves EVERY bit of it.

Look at MS's business plan... oh, thats right, they don't have one. At least not to Warren Buffet. Instead, they are determined to get into bed with every "content creation" company. It's called Writing On The Wall.

Consider the 200$ a learning experience in small claims. That's the only place you'll see any money.

Microsoft has already fixed this last summer

[Ron Atkinson]

Since last year when a console is replaced Microsoft updates the DRM to the new serial number so that games still work without being connected to Xbox Live. I have a few friends that have received new Xbox 360 consoles with new serial numbers and their content is fine. I have no doubt that some people may have had issues if someone did not properly update the DRM to the new serial number, then they would be talking to many people from customer service to get it fixed.

I have had one launch day Xbox 360 fail back around June or July, and I did have the problem with content not working. Support did decide to reimburse all my points, however I got tired of the support person I was talking to (first person was good, this one was not) and asked to talk to someone higher up. This person knew exactly was he was doing and said it should have worked, and hen asked for the serial number and one other number (it's on the blade section where the serial number is). The next day when I connected back into Xbox Live my console was updated so all my content now worked. I was happy and did not need to points anymore, however they still gave me the points anyways "for my trouble". One of my friends console also failed a week before mine and another about a month later and they both received new consoles and all their content works for anyone on the system without being connect to Xbox Live. Another failed about 2 months ago and his is fine too.

If someone does have an Xbox 360 that was replaced and it does not allow access to the content they purchase without being online, you need to get a DRM transfer to the new console. If support does not know what you are talking about you need to talk to someone higher up then that person. The people that answer the phone are first tier and typically only handle the simple and routine problems. This is that way that every large corporation work and is certainly not unique to Microsoft.

Re:Ummm, not quite

[The Analog Kid]

Well, anybody who bought this heaping pile of shit and didn't expect this kind of behavior to ensue deserves EVERY bit of it.

Since the greatest amount of failures occurred with the original launch model, I doubt anyone with one of those expected it to be a heaping pile of shit.

Absolutely true!

[spideyct]

I can absolutely confirm I've experienced the same run around.
I received a replacement console after the red rings of death. I immediately called support regarding my content that no longer worked (without being logged in), went through a bunch of steps to confirm I couldn't get it to work (which was ridiculous - they MUST know that it wasn't going to work) and was then told I would be called back within a few days.
They never called, so I called them back. The same routine happened for about a month, with me calling back once a week. I had to start berating the support personnel and their powerless "supervisors" as they all continued to respond "be assured we are working on this and will have it resolved as soon as possible". No - you are NOT working on it - please stop the lies.
I finally talked to one support person that said "oh yeah, I don't know what those other guys were thinking, they logged your case completely wrong, I'll get this taken care of immediately, you shouldnt have had to wait this long. I schedule a call back with you on Monday to confirm". He went so far as to set up a specific 3 hour time period when I would receive the call back. Which of course never happened.
After going through these weekly calls of yelling at their useless "support" for a few months, I wrote to Major Nelson pleading my case (I don't know him personally, it was a desperation attempt). He sent my case number to someone in "escalations" who actually DID call me back. I thought I was finally getting somewhere. Within a week I got a call from someone in engineering confirming my console ID and serial number. Things looked promising.
That was 2 months ago.
My content has STILL not been unlocked.
And no, nobody was willing to give me points to re-buy the content. If they used to do that, they sure don't anymore.

I WAS a fanboy. The 360 and XBox Live were a great product. However, this is the absolute WORST customer experience I have ever had with any company, hands down. Because of their complete incompetence and unwillingness to resolve my issue, they have destroyed their image, and made me want to tell everyone I know about how bad their support is. Please spread the word.

Re:Absolutely true!

[rtb61]

Perhaps you have finally learned the principle behind selling you the same content over and over again. When you buy content, your right to access that content should last as long as the copyright of that content and not be locked to the life of a piece of hardware which will inevitably fail and basically steal that content away so that it can be sold to you over and over again.

M$ has attempted to force the OEM OS being tied to the hardware, so that if the hardware fails you have to re-buy the OS. Where they had complete control over the hardware, seriously did you really expect them to behave any differently. They know it is wrong, they know they are stealing your content rights, they know there will be bad consumer reaction to this, which is why they obfuscate, lie and misdirect their responses. As far as they are concerned, the software is a part of the hardware and subject to the same beyond warranty failure rate and requirements of repurchase. You might have thought you were buying that content but make no mistake as far as they were concerned you only rented it and it was only ever going to last until the next version of xbox was released, at which time you be forced to renew the rent.

Re:Absolutely true!

[Moonpie Madness]

as much as I love the 360's game superiority, this is so true.

MS isn't fighting Sony tooth and nail just to do better, they are trying to dominate and monopolize the entire industry, and when they do, they will have far more draconian rules for getting as much money as possible out of me.

I don't want to see MS buy core IPs to the point where they can control who can complete with them, but MS is clearly trying to do this. I don't want to see subscriptions for everything and zero actual ownership, but that's exactly where we're headed if MS manages to dominate the game industry. Fortunately, I think Nintendo is unstoppable and Sony is showing a lot more strength this year.

but I worry that the excellence of the 360 is more like bait.

You're wrong, iTunes lets you redownload music

[LKM]

Let me introduce you to iTunes Music Store. An otherwise great service with no way to redownload previous purchases, if say for example your macbook crashes.

This is blatantly false. E-Mail Apple and they will let you re-download your songs.

Not to mention that you can backup your iTunes music (in fact, iTunes has a built-in backup function). Can't do that with Xbox games.

Should have just bought a PS3!

[greyfeld]

Sure, I'm trolling, but I couldn't resist. But really, when it came down to how I was going to spend my hard earned money, PS3 or 360, the 80GB PS3 won hands down. I have had zero issues with it over the past year, the Blu-Ray has turned out to be the dominant HD format, it connects to TVersity on my PC for streaming movies and music, it is just a superior piece of equipment. You sure don't hear anything about 1 in 3 PS3 failures like you do the 360. Just give the finger to MS and switch!

consoles have not appeal for me

[Dan667]

The more that they try to control every aspect of using the device pushes me farther away from consoles. If they stop developing for the PC I will just not play those games.

Own your computer

[Forrest Kyle]

This is why I only play PC games. When you "buy" a console, you are really just renting it from a huge corporation that doesn't give a god damn about you. I'm amazed that people torture themselves with consoles. Horrible controls, horrible service, unreliability, and DRM out the bum.

When my PC breaks, I don't have to send it to some company and wait 25 years while they erase all my software and then get it back with a little note that says "Fuck You." I keep backups and replace parts when they get old.