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US Army "Scams" Service Members to Test Their Spam Gullibility

9gezegen writes "An offer for free tickets to theme parks for service members turned out to be an email scam, a ploy that was in actuality a security exercise run by the Army. Involved servicemen and DoD civilians received an email, allegedly coming from the 'Army Family and Morale, Welfare and Recreation Command Office,' and directed them to a phishing site which asked for personal information. After rebuttal and warning by Army MWR, the website revealed that it was a security exercise after all. Army MWR later verified the exercise and announced they were not informed beforehand."

218 comments

  1. Let me guess... by Chris+Burke · · Score: 5, Funny

    In order for the Army MWR to verify that this was in fact a legitimate security operation, they had to visit a website and enter their personal information...

    --

    The enemies of Democracy are
    1. Re:Let me guess... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Good to know that the army has some clever IT people.

    2. Re:Let me guess... by bizzyjb · · Score: 1

      What I'd really like to know is if they sent the spam from their own email servers. In other words, did the spam come legitimately from something like: joe@army.com, or was it like all spam where it LOOKS like a legit address but then if you check the headers it's not. I mean, if someone at Verizon.com sent me an email testing my spam gullibility but didn't do it from a fake email address...that's a misuse of trust. Fake email addresses are how I KNOW something is spam, or a website that points to an IP address in China. No, if they really wanted to test that they should have sent it from a fake email address and sent them to a fake website on a bogus server. That is...assuming they DIDN'T do that...

  2. Why no stats on who fell for it? by QuesarVII · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I want to know a percentage of people that fell for it!

    1. Re:Why no stats on who fell for it? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      We could tell you, but then we would have to lock you up at a secret facility.

    2. Re:Why no stats on who fell for it? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      About 99% I'm sure.

    3. Re:Why no stats on who fell for it? by noidentity · · Score: 1

      Hell, I want some kind of list of people who fell for it, perhaps in some way that only their workmates know (like serial number or something). Embarrass them, so that people will be much more reluctant to trust things like this in the future.

    4. Re:Why no stats on who fell for it? by spazdor · · Score: 1

      Welcome to Gitmo for the rest of your life. APRIL FOOLS!

      --
      DRM: Terminator crops for your mind!
    5. Re:Why no stats on who fell for it? by ZenDragon · · Score: 1

      It was likley to embarassingly high to note. You know that if only 1% fell for it they probably would have reported that. Easily above 25%! haha

    6. Re:Why no stats on who fell for it? by XnavxeMiyyep · · Score: 2, Funny

      perhaps in some way that only their workmates know

      Aww, you're so nice. I'd just want a list of people who foll for it for, uh, other reasons...

      --
      I put the 't' in electrical engineering.
    7. Re:Why no stats on who fell for it? by Radical+Moderate · · Score: 2, Funny

      The stats are posted here. Have your credit card and social security number ready!

      --
      Never let a lack of data get in the way of a good rant.
    8. Re:Why no stats on who fell for it? by jackrabbit123 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I know someone who did. As an aside all the site asked for was your email address. It's not like they were asking for people to give up their SSN or bank account numbers.

      --
      War(n) - Gods way of teaching Americans geography.
    9. Re:Why no stats on who fell for it? by IdleTime · · Score: 1

      I want it broken down on rank. Number for each rank including a per rank number showing how large a percentage of each rank fell for it.

      --
      If you mod me down, I *will* introduce you to my sister!
    10. Re:Why no stats on who fell for it? by bhiestand · · Score: 1

      I want to know a percentage of people that fell for it! Hello friend,

      I'm Sherman Tecumseh. You may have heard of me from the recent news articles about my program under the Freedom Of Information Act to give out valuable data to intelligent people such as yourself.

      I am writing to inform you that you have been hand-picked to be the first to receive this data, but I need more of your information to be able to send it to. As you probably know, this information is highly sensitive, so we need your social security number, mother's maiden name, and all your previous addresses to complete the background check.

      Because I am writing from a friend's account, please write me at GenCoolFish@example.com with the above information. Thank you and God Bless.
      --
      SWM seeks new sig for a brief fling
    11. Re:Why no stats on who fell for it? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, I thought that was funny :-)

    12. Re:Why no stats on who fell for it? by Kral_Blbec · · Score: 1

      Thats kinda dumb to email someone to send them to a phishing site to collect their email.

  3. Typical by SatanicPuppy · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The MWR people are all crying because no one told them that it was a test...Apparently, in their minds, there is no need to test an army organizations response to someone falsifying announcements in their name.

    Sounds like the test went off swimmingly. I can't count the number of times I've thought about doing the same sort of thing to people I work with. A few good solid scares will tighten up their security policy.

    --
    ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
    1. Re:Typical by glavenoid · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Sounds like the test went off swimmingly. I can't count the number of times I've thought about doing the same sort of thing to people I work with. A few good solid scares will tighten up their security policy

      *Sigh (not at you, just in general)* That's true, but how long will they remain scared and secure? People often fall into a false sense of security when there has been either a trend of "good times" or when someone keeps crying wolf. One scare will keep people safer in the short term, but not permanently.

      Except for those of us who are always waiting for the other shoe to drop...
      --
      I, for one, am looking forward to the inevitable /. beta rollout fallout.
    2. Re:Typical by KevMar · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I am tempted to do this all the time, but I know the administration would not understand what I am talking about. In the end I would prabably get fired on a technicality.

      The weakest link in any security system is the end user. I work with users that have the hardest time with computers. I have this guy call every week because he forgot his password and I have to take 10 min training him how to change his password. (why every week? he only works on Thursdays).

      Now you will have to make a new password is has to have ... blah ... blah ... ... You have to retype it to confirm it before you press enter this time.

      now you have to put in your old password again. not that one, the one I just gave you is the old password. You have to click in the line. click the mouse. left click. you can't hover the mouse over it, you have to click in it. ... now type you new password. On the next line retype it. You have to click, no left click, click the mouse in the box.

      You have to type it the same. no, I can see they don't match. the first one is longer, it has more dots.


      You just cant explain to some people what fishing even is.

      I had one guy call up freaking out that his computer told him he had porn on it. (its a fire on the spot if you have porn). It was a little pop up window trying to get him to instal a program to "remove" it. The good news is he was too scared to click the button and called me instead. Other users had to be rebuilt.

      I know an attack like this would catch so many people and you have to train them. But you spend so much time just logging them in or working on the basic stuff. This is one detail that some people will have a hard time grasping.

      I am in an interesting enviroment. I have college students looking to enter the workforce working with people that are about to or have retired. So I deal will the full range of users all the time.

      --
      Im a gamer, not a grammer major. This post is full of spelling and grammer mistakes.
    3. Re:Typical by raehl · · Score: 4, Funny

      how long will they remain scared and secure?

      As long as you leave up the signs that say "Threat Level: Orange", of course.

    4. Re:Typical by Gogo0 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Youre right, but there is a little more to it.
      These are called 'exercises', are planned extensively, and there is definitely installation coordination. The local DOIM (directorate of information management) is notified of the exercise, usually by their theatre command well ahead of time.

      Of all the phishing iv seen during various exercises, iv never seen one more complicated than simply counting how many users on what installation clicked the link. no information gathering besides IP, which is helpful for problem user training.

    5. Re:Typical by glavenoid · · Score: 3, Funny

      Or worse-- Threat Level: Elmo

      --
      I, for one, am looking forward to the inevitable /. beta rollout fallout.
    6. Re:Typical by PRMan · · Score: 1

      I used to work at a company that had very tight security and tested it in every way imaginable, including using social engineering.

      Ironically, they had everything locked down so tightly that everyone had to move data from Development to Production using USB drives, because no machine could talk to both networks. Developers had "phony" copies of databases locally on their laptops, because of how difficult it was to connect at different locations (and they expected people to work on the plane as well).

      All this led to many instances where data was lost on USB and laptops and the company had embarrassing issues. And still they gloated about how "great" their security was...

      --
      Peter predicted that you would "deliberately forget" creation 2000 years ago...
    7. Re:Typical by daeg · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Clear it with management and do it on a limited, rolling basis.

      We do it on a random sample of users with our web platform. All login requests get routed to a central domain ("shield.domain.com") which is non-SSL. That domain does a little basic load balancing to distribute requests to "https://foo.domain.com" or "https://bar.domain.com". We have a few extra domains set up, including "https://foo.domane.com" with a valid SSL certificate; "https://aa.domain.com" with an invalid certificate; and a non-SSL domain, "http://foodomain.com". All are nearly identical to our login page - one has a button out of alignment, throws some JavaScript errors, etc.

      The pages alert the user to the deception on the first try. Second tries net a phone call. Third tries get a more detailed phone call with the office owner & account lockout.

      It's been very effective, in fact, I've received several thank you notes so far from our users for teaching them about it. Not just dictating to them, but teaching them through first hand experience. They thank us because they can easily apply those same "does the address bar really match what it should?" technique to every other site out there.

      And to get the same effect as phising, we send out periodic/random e-mails that read pretty official, but come from the wrong domain, or have a forged From: address, asking a user to visit a set up fraud website to enter personal information (not detailed, mostly just fishing for their user credentials).

      The only thing I don't know yet is if users are learning because they are actually learning, or if it's a forced behavior just so they don't get a phone call from me. I'm not sure it matters why, just as long as it's happening.

    8. Re:Typical by jaeson · · Score: 1

      You just cant explain to some people what fishing even is.

      But, can you teach them to fish?

    9. Re:Typical by plover · · Score: 2, Funny

      You just cant explain to some people what fishing even is.

      But, can you teach them to fish? Give a man a phish and you'll eat for a day.
      Teach a man to phish and you won't get jack squat out of it, ever.
      --
      John
    10. Re:Typical by TheLink · · Score: 1

      "its a fire on the spot if you have porn"

      Nowadays with all the usual stuff out there I think just having porn pics in the browser cache shouldn't be such a serious offense.

      Just let everyone know that all web requests are logged, and once in a while check the top 10 users and the top 10 sites.

      But be aware that often the top will be the CEO or someone near that level, so if you are going to make public announcements better inform them and do a private trial run first ;).

      --
    11. Re:Typical by vidarh · · Score: 4, Interesting

      A company I did consulting for at one point did this by posting a top ten list in a very visible spot in the office regularly. No identifiable information, even though all outgoing requests were forced through Squid and so they had the internal static IP addresses of everyone. Within a week visits to "undesirable" sites had dropped to near zero, and there was no reason to deal with anyone - just a gentle reminder that their requests _had_ been logged seemed to be more than enough.

    12. Re:Typical by bhiestand · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The weakest link in any security system is the end user. I work with users that have the hardest time with computers. I have this guy call every week because he forgot his password and I have to take 10 min training him how to change his password. (why every week? he only works on Thursdays).

      Now you will have to make a new password is has to have ... blah ... blah ... Have you ever considered that your passwords might be too complex for the average user? I worked for an organization that had very stringent password rules: 2 lower case, 2 upper case, 2 special character, 2 numbers, numbers cannot repeat, letters can't be next to each other on the keyboard, and password must be changed every 60 days, and that was just for my network login. There were more for internal company websites, databases, and custom programs that all had to have similar (but different) passwords.

      I consider myself fairly intelligent, but I had a heck of a time remembering the passwords and was embarrassed by needing regular password resets after long weekends.

      To make matters worse, password management programs like KeePass were not allowed on the network and any unauthorized software could get you in trouble. Because of this I ended up having to do things like writing half my password on a post-it and the other half on a card in my wallet. I devised all sorts of incredibly insecure systems to store the myriad complex passwords I was required to maintain.
      --
      SWM seeks new sig for a brief fling
    13. Re:Typical by caluml · · Score: 1

      Yes, I've had that idea before. Sort of a Panopticon.

    14. Re:Typical by houghi · · Score: 1

      Sounds like the guy calls you, because he then does not have to work. I have seen the same behavious with people trying to get to delay working. They blame the computer of not being able to do something.
      Instead of me wasting my time (the first time is OK) I tell them to ask their N+1 or in their abscence N+2 to explain it. This solves the problem ectremely fast.

      Also: why are people fired if they watch a female nipple, but not if they install and download something that will result in a re-instalaton and thus in actual loss in money and productivity.

      Wether you loose time by looking at women or by reading /. should not matter.

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    15. Re:Typical by caluml · · Score: 1

      And all the others you could possibly want! "Give a woman a fish and you'll be sleeping on the couch again."

    16. Re:Typical by indifferent+children · · Score: 1
      I think the MWR people are pissed because while MWR is trying to learn how to use new media to better serve soldiers and families (and make enough money to keep operating), they have just been painted (in the soldiers' minds) as a scam site or a way to test soldiers' gullibility.

      How would you like it if the FBI created a fake copy of your company website, and sent-out an email that contained a link that displayed your URL, but that directed browsers to their gullibility-test site? Then, to triple the damage, they announced that they had done this, so nobody wants to visit your site?

      disclaimer: I worked in Army MWR Marketing and IT for seven years.

      --
      Censorship is telling a man he can't have a steak just because a baby can't chew it. --Mark Twain
    17. Re:Typical by Eivind · · Score: 1

      In non-fascist states employers powers to surveil their employees are limited. Yes it's work-time and work-equipment. No the employer STILL can't legally operate his own little private police-state 8-16 with no limitations.

      Besides, making an announcement like that with high-value employees that actually have a choice would simply result in half of them quitting the job. Seriously.

      We do traffic-monitoring, but anonymized. (we chop off the last byte of the ip-adress so we see *what* is done, but not by *whom* more accurately than -someone-among-those-200-) And we have a written and known policy that certain use is inacceptable and that if such use is seen, we may need to investigate further.

    18. Re:Typical by gstoddart · · Score: 1

      Or worse-- Threat Level: Elmo

      If it reaches threat level Emo, it's time to flee. :-P

      Cheers
      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    19. Re:Typical by Kral_Blbec · · Score: 1

      So many people panic when they see a mouse that I'm survived there isn't a bigger market for office chairs. I hate having to explain something on a computer to someone. Especially when literally all I'm doing is repeating the screen prompts.

    20. Re:Typical by Kral_Blbec · · Score: 1

      Thats kind of the point. While I dont like porn and find it offensive, the company isnt trying to instill you with missing ethics, it just is trying to make sure your focused on the task at hand. For that reason I wouldnt be surprised at /. being treated the same as a porn site by the employer.

  4. This is good. by Anonymous+Crowhead · · Score: 5, Insightful

    More companies should do this. Hell, banks should do this to their customers.

    1. Re:This is good. by Moonpie+Madness · · Score: 1

      Absolutely banks should do this. Ebay, paypal, etc.

      Hell your email provider should send you a 419 scam every month or so, and attach "sexy" photos to them.

      Seriously would help.

    2. Re:This is good. by Intron · · Score: 1

      Mod up. Paypal should also create a few phish sites that let you "confirm your information" and then tell you what an idiot you are. When they shut down the fake sites, they could redirect them to the fake fake sites.

      --
      Intron: the portion of DNA which expresses nothing useful.
    3. Re:This is good. by glavenoid · · Score: 2, Insightful

      More companies should do this. Hell, banks should do this to their customers. If more companies did this, then people would stop using their services as the trust relationship would be totally broken. People in general don't like to be dicked around with, even if it's for their own good (maybe especially then?). More companies should create better mechanisms that protect their consumers instead.
      --
      I, for one, am looking forward to the inevitable /. beta rollout fallout.
    4. Re:This is good. by steveo777 · · Score: 5, Funny

      Hell, banks should do this to their customers.

      They already do. Haven't you ever received a "Pre-Approved" credit card application?

      --
      This sig isn't original enough, it's time to come up with something witty...
    5. Re:This is good. by glavenoid · · Score: 1

      Then people would stop using paypal. Wait, that's a *good* thing, right?!;-)

      --
      I, for one, am looking forward to the inevitable /. beta rollout fallout.
    6. Re:This is good. by owlnation · · Score: 1

      Hell, banks should do this to their customers.
      If the banks were the ones losing money through ID theft they'd do it in an heartbeat. For sure. However, you lose your ID, you lose the money. Your bank's just fine thank you very much.

      It's not happening... it should, yes. But it's not.
    7. Re:This is good. by The+Master+Control+P · · Score: 1

      Stopping stupid humans' stupidity from hurting them requires human-equivalent AI (to do everything on their behalf).

      How do you protect someone who actually believes that there's a prince in Nigeria who wants to wire him/her millions of dollars?

    8. Re:This is good. by zippthorne · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Paypal is, itself, a scam.

      It's a way for "businesses" who can't even muster enough confidence from a bank to get an account with them, to still be able to "accept" credit cards.

      But although you can do something that's very much like banking, with paypal, they are not, themselves, a bank. So they can get away with outrageous fees and also avoid any of the liability the CC banks have.

      This is very much in line with Ebay's business practices: a classified-ad web site server which charges based on how much money changes hands rather than how much bandwidth & back-end processing you sop up.

      --
      Can you be Even More Awesome?!
    9. Re:This is good. by vidarh · · Score: 1

      I really don't want "sexy" photos of the dead presidents and ugly old presidents wives that the 419 scams I get typically claim to be from, thank you very much.

    10. Re:This is good. by Jedi+Alec · · Score: 1

      You realize there's also demand from, you know, the user side? Lots of people don't have/want creditcards, and there's a lot of countries out there that have a slightly different credit rating system from the (completely ridiculous) US system.

      I'm not saying Paypal is great or anything, just that it allows me to conduct online purchases while still very much limiting the amount of financial risk involved.

      --

      People replying to my sig annoy me. That's why I change it all the time.
    11. Re:This is good. by MrMacman2u · · Score: 1

      More companies should create better mechanisms that protect their consumers instead.

      Like smashing their hands with bricks every time they fall for a phishing attack and then come crying to them?

      --
      This signature is lame.
    12. Re:This is good. by somersault · · Score: 1

      And when you get to that point, the AI will probably kill the user for their own good.

      --
      which is totally what she said
    13. Re:This is good. by Kral_Blbec · · Score: 1

      I like paypal. Its convenient and it works. If you decide to use any other features than ebay then you accept the fees. If your buying from a site that cant muster enough confidence to get an account with a bank then thats your choice. Just because some companies abuse a service offered by one company doesn't mean its a bad service. And how much bandwidth do you think ebay uses to make it mentionable?

  5. And what was the point? by socz · · Score: 1

    Did they just want to see how much at risk their respective departments were? I don't think they needed to try this on the military with so much data out there. Information is the hardest thing to keep secure, right?

    So now what happens with people who gave up too much info? Will they get in trouble or will it be "well now you know better?" Either way that's not cool at all. Just think if your company set this up on you, what would your reactions be?

    --
    My abilities are only limited by my imagination
    1. Re:And what was the point? by qbzzt · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Either way that's not cool at all. Just think if your company set this up on you, what would your reactions be?

      If my company trusted my co-workers with information that could get me killed, I'd want them to test susceptibility to social engineering. If I do a bad job, my company loses money. When people in the military do a bad job, people can die (OK, when they do a good job people still die - but they're other people, those trying to kill them). They need to worry more about security.

      --
      -- Support a free market in the field of government
    2. Re:And what was the point? by couchslug · · Score: 3, Interesting

      "I don't think they needed to try this on the military with so much data out there."

      I think that the military should try more such exercises to keep their people aware of such security issues. If they do it enough, the standard response to such emails will be to verify the source and report it as required.
      Even with that somewhat computer literate USAF folks I served with, these "exercises" would have been very helpful.

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
    3. Re:And what was the point? by protolith · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Either way that's not cool at all. Just think if your company set this up on you, what would your reactions be?

      I would prefer that my company be active in testing security in this exact fashion. Rather than imposing increasingly opressive restrictions because of what some people "might" do.

      it would be better to get teh e-mail "Since 12% of you BONEHEADS didn't recognize a clear security threat, and feature XYZ was essentially opened to be compromized, it will be locked untill you boneheads demonstrate you can handle the responsibility" If the feature to be lost is significant, publicly humiliate the list that failed the security test, Lord of The Flies style justice will take over the cube farm and lessons will be learned...

    4. Re:And what was the point? by socz · · Score: 0

      Well, I want people around me to be 'smart' about these sort of things as well. Right now at work we have a pretty bad spam problem, well I do. Apparently people don't pay attention to me when i say to send BCC instead of cc, and they don't delete the "FROM" email addresses. Now my personal email is getting spammed. That sucks!

      Maybe if you start with kids in jr high you can teach people about security, because most don't care if they use their real names, pictures of them AND names and pictures of others! That's a big pain in my side. And everyone who gets hired is instructed on what and what not to send in emails (because it's sensitive info). You think that matters to some forwarding to gmail every email they get in their inbox (a`la riaa)?

      --
      My abilities are only limited by my imagination
    5. Re:And what was the point? by socz · · Score: 1

      I don't know, because it's not about doing what you're trained/told to do. Even the best of us can get a virus in winders. I have a friend who admins my gbsd network and he doesn't even run a a/v on his windows box. He is that confident in his ability to discern good/bad archives/files/websites. I just burned him by giving him the g2p.org link, and he search for something (probably porn huh?) and BAM! Had to ghost his system.

      So even though he KNOWS he should run an a/v, he doesn't because he trusts himself. We can't trust others when they're like this, especially with sensitive data they're holding.

      PS, my major concern with the USAF is my buddy who is a mechanic. He was always so drunk, i found it hard to believe he could take the entire plane apart and put it back together. I always wondered about the safety of his plane. But i guess it was ok! He went with it to Saudi Arabia and got shot at (so he thinks) while having been put on sentry duty (due to low amount of people on base). ANY how, it worked out ok in the end and he came back alright.

      --
      My abilities are only limited by my imagination
    6. Re:And what was the point? by socz · · Score: 1

      I work as a contractor for the client i'm working for, and they required me to take the yearly security tests madated by fed and state law. Their testing structure involved 30-50 min reading sessions followed by like 10-25 questions. Having skipped the reading part and going straight to the questions, i was able to guess because the multiple choice told you what answers were wrong.

      If you have something like that for testing, whats the point of doing it? I personally believe it's something that each person has to understand. Maybe not disclosing personal info, pictures or (more) links to my real life than i have to might make me a little paranoid, but i'd rather be this way than subject to easy in depth analysis of my personal info. I think Jr High is a good time to start teaching the virtues of security.

      PS While in living abroad, i found out that people even entered their cell phone #'s in their personal profile (like hotmail's profile). I couldn't believe this!!!!! But to them, that's ok.

      --
      My abilities are only limited by my imagination
    7. Re:And what was the point? by STrinity · · Score: 1

      Just think if your company set this up on you, what would your reactions be?


      "Wow, you boneheads fell for that? What a bunch of 1uzors! I hope it learned you a lesson -- but if not, you'd better give me your credit cards for safe keeping."
      --
      Les Miserables Volume 1 now up with my reading of
    8. Re:And what was the point? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      this is basic communications security. they should learn this in basic, and should know it applies everywhere.

    9. Re:And what was the point? by couchslug · · Score: 1

      "I have a friend who admins my gbsd network and he doesn't even run a a/v on his windows box. He is that confident in his ability to discern good/bad archives/files/websites. I just burned him by giving him the g2p.org link, and he search for something (probably porn huh?) and BAM! Had to ghost his system."

      Proof complacency has consequences. Wanna surf pron? That's a fine use for a VMware appliance. :)

      "So even though he KNOWS he should run an a/v, he doesn't because he trusts himself."

      That's why you train people to do it right, and test them. In the military it isn't about "trusting yourself" beyond safety procedures.

      "PS, my major concern with the USAF is my buddy who is a mechanic. He was always so drunk,"

      As long as it wasn't on duty, it's his business until it causes legal or performance problems. If he shows up drunk on station that would be time for rehab.

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
    10. Re:And what was the point? by bhiestand · · Score: 1

      As long as it wasn't on duty, it's his business until it causes legal or performance problems. If he shows up drunk on station that would be time for rehab. While I agree in spirit, it's only half true. If his commander feels he has an alcohol/substance abuse/mental/medical problem, he can order his troop to report to his local substance abuse people for screening.

      It obviously varies between bases and commanders, but the focus now appears to be on prevention and intervention before it leads to problems at work, especially when you're talking about people working on billion dollar aircraft.
      --
      SWM seeks new sig for a brief fling
    11. Re:And what was the point? by somersault · · Score: 1

      While in living abroad, i found out that people even entered their cell phone #'s in their personal profile (like hotmail's profile). I couldn't believe this!!!!! But to them, that's ok. You think that's bad? I know a girl from work who has her frickin home address in her hotmail profile. She's almost 18 now but I'm sure it must have been there way before she started work here at 16.. some people are just far too naive and trusting :/
      --
      which is totally what she said
    12. Re:And what was the point? by avandesande · · Score: 1

      Not to mention the fact that Military is not just another 'Job'... these people have given up many basic rights and are expected to follow a certain code of contact, even when off duty.

      --
      love is just extroverted narcissism
    13. Re:And what was the point? by Kral_Blbec · · Score: 1

      I've lost track of how many times ive told my sister-in-laws to use BBC and stop sending me pictures (much easier/better to host them someone, like picassa). I dont get any forwards anymore but just the other day I got a family picture from one of them sent to all my family and her family on my personal account that only some 15 people know. Granted its still in the family to some degree, but people really really really need to be taught CC and BCC.

    14. Re:And what was the point? by Kral_Blbec · · Score: 1

      Its also can be a problem with classified information that he knows. As a mechanic he knows the aircraft fairly well, and I'm sure the Chinese could find a gal to juice him up and let him leak.

    15. Re:And what was the point? by Kral_Blbec · · Score: 1

      Isn't there any option to hide except from those on the friends list? Take skype for example, the address and phone number there is only shared with those you have allowed. No major security risk.

    16. Re:And what was the point? by couchslug · · Score: 1

      I was variously an avionics troop/engine mech/crew chief. If the ChiComs want info they'd get more from open sources like f16.net. :)

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
    17. Re:And what was the point? by socz · · Score: 1

      hmm, i think naive is the word here, they just don't understand the security risk they run. Sure, in the small town it's really no risk at all. But in a bigger environment it's just a bad idea. I respect those who boldly put their info out there, like that guy who had so much faith in his credit securing company that he put his SSN out there... unfortunately it was used by those smarter than in his company.

      They really need to teach about secure ideas in school.

      --
      My abilities are only limited by my imagination
    18. Re:And what was the point? by socz · · Score: 1

      yeah, it's not just another job, i agree! That is why they have to take care to prevent this sort of thing from happening. In the IT world, they don't let users manager their own work terminals because they know the users will really fook it up, right? Same deal here.

      Prevent access to sites, or even better, allow access to only a handfull of approved sites. This could be a good thing because then parents and civilians could run this list of 'approved sites' if they so wanted to and 'stay out of trouble.' Yes, that's censorship, but it'll protect the less than savvy population from the evil online-doers.

      Because if you go down to the lowest level, even cops/security guards do the wrong things, a lot of the time.

      --
      My abilities are only limited by my imagination
    19. Re:And what was the point? by socz · · Score: 1

      everyone reacts differently when i try explaining the virtues of BBC (in my opinion). But most don't know (so can't appreciate) what i know and where i'm coming from, so they take it poorly. I believe the reason is most people believe they're pretty bad ass, and few that they're l33t.

      Little by little those who care learn about me and have learned to contemplate what i've said, but the rest (most) just give me attitude as if i was belittling them. That's pretty sad because i'm just really trying to help.

      What do you guys say/do to teach others things that will help them be safer?

      --
      My abilities are only limited by my imagination
    20. Re:And what was the point? by somersault · · Score: 1

      Do you mean Jeremy Clarkson? And the girl who put her details out lives on the outskirts of a large city. Not the largest by UK terms but still not a small town community either. In this day and age of mostly everyone having their own private long distance transportation device I don't think it really matters much where you live, unless you're on a remote island..

      --
      which is totally what she said
    21. Re:And what was the point? by socz · · Score: 1

      mmm no i don't think it was Jeremy Clarkson, it was some other white dude. This other guy runs a company that secures your personal info (i believe through the credit reporting agencies) so that if someone tries to 'steal your identity' (maybe it's identity guard). Oh, it's life lock.com

      My name is Todd Davis
      My social security number is 457-55-5462

      hahaha YEAH!!!

      my word image is: sweating, that is what Todd Davis was doing once they 'borrowed' his identity.

      --
      My abilities are only limited by my imagination
    22. Re:And what was the point? by socz · · Score: 1

      HAHAHA guess what, he married an Oriental! This is comedy that you mention it. He met some girl over the internet and went to see her, TWICE! The first time the girl was 'not sure about coming back with him and getting married.' The second time she accepted and got married! Hmm, maybe i should look him up to see if he's still accounted for! Oh Noes, now you have me worried about my buddy Shane.

      --
      My abilities are only limited by my imagination
  6. In before.... by Protonk · · Score: 3, Insightful

    people suggest that the stupidity of the army members leads to a higher percentage of click throughs. Remember, studies across the board have shown about a 60% 'gullibility' rate for almost any sector of the populace. Those using general banking, investment banks, 4 year degree holders, etc.

    1. Re:In before.... by Moonpie+Madness · · Score: 4, Insightful

      who are these people making that suggestion?

      I'm not pretending the army is full of Einsteins, but they all graduated high school or earned a GED (vast vast majority graduated high school), and all of them are required to learn math skills involving chemical attack detection, navigation, operating a frequency hopping radio, etc.

      Compare that to kids in the average US city, where 50% do not graduate high school.

      The Army is certainly a lot smarter than the general population. They may be more willing to rely on titles (like MWR)... I don't know about that, but I'd like to know who is buying the Carter era propaganda that the army is a bunch of idiots.

    2. Re:In before.... by kd5ujz · · Score: 3, Informative

      At least Half (if not all) of the military's equipment has VERY explicit instructions written on it, to the point that if you had not been trained in its use, you could pick it up on the battlefield and make it work in a few minutes. Take the AT-4 for example, if you follow the attached link and click on detailed instructions, you will see what is printed on the launch tube. In the other photos, you can see the instructions, but you can not make out the words.


      http://www.bellum.nu/armoury/FFVAT4.html

      --
      -William
      God is everything science has yet to explain.
    3. Re:In before.... by Moonpie+Madness · · Score: 1

      What is that supposed to prove?

      You realize that if you are trying to fire an AT-4 you're probably being attacked by a tank or something? Don't you think you might have a hard time concentrating on difficult instructions? The simple instructions are meant to help a person operate something like a rocket launcher while under severe pressure. You can't compare this to anything that doesn't involve the direct possibility of death. It's not like office phones in the army have a "pick up receiver and talk into this end" sticker.

      What a terrible analogy.

      The Army has its share of jackasses (not too many anymore, but you can't get rid of them all). But for the most part, soldiers are capable of handling complicated stuff. For example, here's their walkie talkie: http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/11-32/fig5-92.gif

      How simple is that for the average mcdonald's employee to operate? It's not that bad, but it's not labeled for use by a 4th grader (that's an ancient canard and it's bullshit).

    4. Re:In before.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah KY-90s are obsolete. Try again.

    5. Re:In before.... by Moonpie+Madness · · Score: 1

      what a pathetic troll attempt. A: the radio is in use in the military today, even if it's been superseded by a superior model. B: even if it wasn't it's representative of a normal Army radio terminal and therefore my argument is still sound.

      What exactly did you think you were proving, anyway?

    6. Re:In before.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Actually it's smart to have directions. Not because people are dumb, but so people who are under extreme duress can still function. And what about people not trained to use the device, or who were trained a long time ago but don't regularly use it? Not putting directions on everything would be dumb.

    7. Re:In before.... by magarity · · Score: 1

      you're probably being attacked by a tank or something? Don't you think you might have a hard time concentrating
       
      Fear not; I'd make time to learn properly under those circumstances.

    8. Re:In before.... by Moonpie+Madness · · Score: 2

      HAHA, well, many people are like you, and would try to calm down and handle themselves when their life is on the line. But, understandably, some people freeze up, and that's why a lot of weapons have very simple and obvious warnings on them.

      I mean, my toaster as a "do not use in bathtub" picture on the bottom of it". My Playstation 2 comes with a similar warning. Same with my Thinkpad.

      It's not fair to point to a rocket launcher, something capable of destroying nearly any vehicle and killing nearly anyone, and say its obvious instructions are evidence of stupidity.

      Frankly, the AT-4 is not obvious to operate. For example, it does not have a pistol-style trigger, the sights are extremely flimsy, and it's not apparent at first glance which end the rocket exits and what kind of risks there are at which angles behind the device (though it may be obvious that directly behind it is unsafe). And few people have experience firing rocket launchers.

      So unlike the idiotic warnings we have all around us, rocket launchers actually need a few simple instructions... not to mention how they are used in terrible circumstances (with running, low light, injuries, pressure, against someone who is probably going to die if you succeed in using your rocket launcher).

      Just seems like there are probably better examples of stupidity in the military than that. I probably would argue against most of those too, but this one is particularly absurd.

    9. Re:In before.... by cain · · Score: 1

      Compare that to kids in the average US city, where 50% do not graduate high school.

      I dispute the 50% graduation rate for US cities. The gov't says 85% percent of US citizens over 25 have a high school diploma. The national graduation rate for the class of 1998 was 71%. If you're saying the important bit in your claim is that the graduation rate in US cities is 50%, I'd ask you why you're picking the location with the worst graduation rates to bolster your argument. You might as well say that OpenBSD is more secure than WinodwsME. Well, yeah, but so what?
    10. Re:In before.... by evilviper · · Score: 4, Funny

      you will see what is printed on the launch tube.

      "AIM AWAY FROM FACE." ???
      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    11. Re:In before.... by rossz · · Score: 2, Insightful

      So the guy trained to use the anti-tank rocket is killed. Isn't it nice that they put nice, easy to follow instructions on it so that any private can use it and save everyone's ass?

      Simple instructions are the fail-over mechanism.

      --
      -- Will program for bandwidth
    12. Re:In before.... by Kohath · · Score: 1

      At least Half (if not all) of the military's equipment has VERY explicit instructions written on it, to the point that if you had not been trained in its use, you could pick it up on the battlefield and make it work in a few minutes.

      So you're saying that the army is not only intelligent but also wise and practical.

    13. Re:In before.... by sco08y · · Score: 1

      At least Half (if not all) of the military's equipment has VERY explicit instructions written on it, to the point that if you had not been trained in its use, you could pick it up on the battlefield and make it work in a few minutes.

      This is going to be Army centric; guessing my MOS probably won't be hard. No direct fire weapon I know of (M2HB, M4, M9, M16, M60, M203, M240, M249, Mk19) has instructions. Claymores do, sewn into the carrier. Neither hand grenades, M203 grenades nor Mk19 grenades have any instructions. Vehicles, generally no. The M2 BFV has a diagram showing how to load 25mm ammo, but that's about it. (You have to load the 25mm ammo just right or it will jam.) I can't think of any diagrams in the Abrams. HMMWVs, at least the common M998, have no instructions, nor do the Army trucks. There are no instructions on SINGCARS or ASIPS radios. PLGR (sp?) GPS units have no instructions that I can recall. Military compasses have no instructions. IBA has some instructions, but I can't recall what they are about. I've never seen any instructions on NVDs of any sort, nor PAC4s or other night gear. AT4s and Javelins both have some instructions. Neither the old FLC nor the new MOLLE gear has any instructions. The shelter halves have no instructions. There are no instructions on how to wear a beret, or any part of the uniform, though they are obviously labeled with washing instructions. There are some instructions that come with the old PASGT and new ACH helmets, and some eye protection has instructions. Ear plugs have no instructions. T-10D parachutes have no instructions. MREs have the infamous "place on rock or something" instructions.

      That's off the top of my head. I will point out, though, that the military has hundreds of field manuals, technical manuals, pamphlets, training guides, &c. Any active duty soldier looking to get promoted spends a lot of time hitting the books in addition to training his unit does.

    14. Re:In before.... by quantaman · · Score: 1

      who are these people making that suggestion?

      I'm not pretending the army is full of Einsteins, but they all graduated high school or earned a GED (vast vast majority graduated high school), and all of them are required to learn math skills involving chemical attack detection, navigation, operating a frequency hopping radio, etc. I don't consider learning those math skills to be a sign of intelligence as it's not that hard to teach someone to carryout the a small subset of procedure and theory required.

      Compare that to kids in the average US city, where 50% do not graduate high school.

      The Army is certainly a lot smarter than the general population. They may be more willing to rely on titles (like MWR)... I don't know about that, but I'd like to know who is buying the Carter era propaganda that the army is a bunch of idiots. I don't believe they're dumb but I doubt the claim that "The Army is certainly a lot smarter than the general population".

      I grew up in a community with a large Canadian air force base (which should be higher than the army). Judging from my military classmates (who are probably a good reflection of the intelligence of their parents) they were essentially ordinary students without the bottom of the bell curve. There were a few top students among them, though to my knowledge none of them followed their parents military footsteps.

      My hunch is that the average army member is competent or better, incompetent people are filtered out but a lot of smart people tend towards other professions.
      --
      I stole this Sig
    15. Re:In before.... by cain · · Score: 1

      (replying to self)

      I've found a few more stats.

      Until recently, the US Army required that 90% of its enlistment class be high school graduates. In 2003, 94% percent of new recruits did have a high school diploma. That's fallen steadily since the war began though. In 2007, it's fallen to to about 71% of new recruits. So the army used to have a better high school graduate rate than the general population, but that is no longer the case. It is still better than the rate from the 17 worst US cities, which is lower than 50%, but again - why use the worst possible case for comparison, when the average seems a more natural one?

    16. Re:In before.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      I'm surprised no one's mentioned the claymore mine, where in big letters on the front it says "front towards enemy".

    17. Re:In before.... by DerekLyons · · Score: 1

      At least Half (if not all) of the military's equipment has VERY explicit instructions written on it, to the point that if you had not been trained in its use, you could pick it up on the battlefield and make it work in a few minutes.

      Exactly none of the equipment I worked with or saw while I was in the Navy had such instructions. Hell, explicit instructions on how to operate my fire control system would have covered the entire exterior of the submarine as well as one moored outboard of us.
       
       

      Take the AT-4 for example, if you follow the attached link and click on detailed instructions, you will see what is printed on the launch tube. In the other photos, you can see the instructions, but you can not make out the words.

      There isn't a link that says detailed instructions - there is a link title 'operating instructions' however.
       
      That being said, those instructions are good enough to get something headed downrange and maybe hit a target... which is a hell of a lot better than nothing, but not equal to the potential performance of a trained soldier. For example, the 'instructions' don't tell you how to adjust and use the sights. Nor does the 'instructions' cover important safety precautions like 'make sure nobody is behind you for a considerable distance', etc... etc...
    18. Re:In before.... by plover · · Score: 1

      I'm surprised no one's mentioned the claymore mine, where in big letters on the front it says "front towards enemy". Well, there is no lesson there that experience can successfully teach.
      --
      John
    19. Re:In before.... by Moonpie+Madness · · Score: 1

      you're kinda muddled here. Not only do you not provide any source for the actual national graduation rate, but you're not making clear if that figure includes GED passers.

      Also, while the military has a 100% graduation rate if you count GED passers, it makes little sense to compare national graduation rates at any ages and compare it to only new recruits in one branch and not the entire military of all ages. Do you understand why?

      Fact is, it's actually not that easy to determine the precise level of high school graduation. All I know is that in Austin, Texas, less than 60% of students graduate, yet in the military, approximately 95% of soldiers have a high school diploma, notwithstanding the article you linked. And Austin is one of the most educated cities in America.

      Anyway, if you really insist on using national graduation, you need to provide that figure, and be sure it's not including GEDs and is only accounting for the young.

    20. Re:In before.... by maxume · · Score: 2, Funny

      It would be better if the weapons and equipment didn't have instructions?

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    21. Re:In before.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're joking.

    22. Re:In before.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm not pretending the army is full of Einsteins, but they all graduated high school or earned a GED (vast vast majority graduated high school), and all of them are required to learn math skills involving chemical attack detection, navigation, operating a frequency hopping radio, etc.

      Then why can't they find those damned WMDs?

    23. Re:In before.... by Moonpie+Madness · · Score: 1

      My hunch is that the average army member is competent or better, incompetent people are filtered out but a lot of smart people tend towards other professions.

      Your hunch is correct, and without the bottom half of the bell curve, I assure you that you wind up with a much smarter group than the general population.

      Not smarter than a college campus (even a community college campus)... smarter than a population including every dumbass out there.

      It's not an especially bold claim I'm making.

    24. Re:In before.... by cain · · Score: 1
      Well I may be a bit muddled, at least I'm trying to support my argument with evidence. The main problem I had with your original post was the assertion that:

      Compare that to kids in the average US city, where 50% do not graduate high school. Do you have any evidence that 50% of the kids in average US city do not graduate high school?
    25. Re:In before.... by hughk · · Score: 1

      My hunch is that the average army member is competent or better, incompetent people are filtered out but a lot of smart people tend towards other professions.

      Ok, I am not military but have known plenty of people who are and through some work I did on computer security. I got to know some people in CID.

      Perhaps many aren't totally incompetent but before/between the Gulf-Wars, many were very dumb (i.e., lacking in common sense). The wars tend to weed out some of the dumbest as these are the ones who end up being killed by booby traps. Remember in some parts of the US, a young guy getting into trouble can "join-up" to get prosecution dropped.

      I know many officers who entered the army to get a college education that they couldn't afford and they definitely weren't stupid, one I know started as a JAG and ended up as a lawyer for a major Wall-Street bank.

      --
      See my journal, I write things there
    26. Re:In before.... by Mikkeles · · Score: 1

      I like the fact that the radio lets you call collect ;^)

      --
      Great minds think alike; fools seldom differ.
    27. Re:In before.... by Eivind · · Score: 1

      Dunno about that. It's hard to end up without the "bottom half of the bell curve" when hardly anyone of above average intelligence will even apply.

      My guess is that the army mostly consist of people in the 3rd quartile, which is hardly above-average.

    28. Re:In before.... by db32 · · Score: 1

      While I know it is extremely popular to hold that line of thinking, it is unbelievably offensive and incorrect. I'm not going to claim that your run of the mill infantry guy is a genius by any stretch, but a very large number of extremely intelligent people sign up. All of the branches encourage continuing education as part of their determination for going up through the ranks as well. To survive in the military you have to be able to adapt and learn quickly. The technical training that many careers recieve rival what a 2yr school offers, and they have to compress it into 6-10 months of training. If you can't keep up you are removed from the program. The idea that everyone who signs up is inherently stupid is stunningly ignorant. Hell, you have to have a college degree to become an officer (not that always proves that you are smart, I know plenty of dumbasses with degrees).

      The military also tends to do a much better job of removing ineffective and corrupt senior leaders from the picture. Care to explain to me why the "more intelligent" civilian populace can't seem to get rid of their ineffective and corrupt leaders? In fact that keep voting them back in! I think it is a special kind of irony that the the man at the top of the military chain, known for his...stunning level of intelligence...is in fact a civilian. Additionally the military records even show that he was a screwup and they tried to remove him. The civilians put him back in charge...at the very top.

      --
      The only change I can believe in is what I find in my couch cushions.
    29. Re:In before.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes it seems silly if you don't think about it, but even simple instructions like that are necessary.

      Not because the soldiers are stupid, au contraire, it's because very often these are very dangerous pieces of equipment that someone will be trying to use after getting an hour of sleep a day for a week straight, and people are shooting at them.

      No matter how smart someone is if they are deprived of sleep, physically exhausted from carrying heavy equipment for many miles, hungry and stressed out from all the enemies trying to kill them - they will be prone to making very serious but simple and easily avoidable mistakes.

    30. Re:In before.... by ahabswhale · · Score: 1

      Remember in some parts of the US, a young guy getting into trouble can "join-up" to get prosecution dropped. This is patently false and there are specific military regulations that say so. See http://usmilitary.about.com/od/joiningthemilitary/a/joinprison.htm for more info.
      --
      Are agnostics skeptical of unicorns too?
    31. Re:In before.... by Kral_Blbec · · Score: 1

      You realize that your comparing your self to their kids, and not the actual members right? The kids were brought there and have made no decision to be a part of the military so they can only be called "military classmates" in so far as their parents are in the military. As you point out by saying that none of them followed in their parents footsteps, that doesn't mean they are military quality themselves.

    32. Re:In before.... by Kral_Blbec · · Score: 1

      Absolutly correct. It is much smarter to be of the mindset of free love, world peace, and colorful flowers. You realize that if nobody of above higher intelligence would apply to the military you wouldn't have the right to insult them and would be shot for expressing yourself in such a manner as to insult those that give you the right to insult them? Its much easier for the Bad Man(tm) to take over the Good People(tm) when the Good People(tm) think they are too good and smart to defend themselves. And there will always be a Bad Man(tm) somewhere in the world.

    33. Re:In before.... by hughk · · Score: 1

      Not what I heard from the CID folks. They have no reason to exaggerate the problems they face. These were people that hadn't been convicted but had been seen to be 'going in the wrong direction' so were able to demonstrate their intention to improve themselves by joining up, where they carried on pimping, drug dealing and stealing under the auspices of the military. Oh and this was pre GW2 where all the cash went missing.

      --
      See my journal, I write things there
    34. Re:In before.... by ahabswhale · · Score: 1

      Where's your evidence? I at least posted information regarding the regulations in place to prevent this very thing. Unless you can post something from a reputable source, it's just your opinion. Also, just because people have been convicted of drug dealing, etc. while in the military doesn't mean they entered the military to escape judgment. I was in the military and worked with a guy who turned out to be a high profile thief. He entered legitimately but decided he could make a ton of money selling NVGs to people in South America.

      --
      Are agnostics skeptical of unicorns too?
    35. Re:In before.... by hughk · · Score: 1

      This was the excuse given to me by the CID guys (For any other readers, CID are the MPs who get involved in investigating criminal activities within the army) as to why a lot of people had problems. They had no reason to lie to me as to why they were having so many problems and the other issue was at the time the military wasn't short on manpower as it is now.

      --
      See my journal, I write things there
    36. Re:In before.... by Eivind · · Score: 1

      Oh, taking it just a -wee- bit personally, are we ?

      There's not really much connection between bad/good and smart/dumb, there are smart-good, smart-bad, dumb-good and dumb-bad people in the world so you ain't got much of a point to begin with.

      Second, you should realize that an the -average- military person being somewhat sub-average in education and brains does not mean there are -NOBODY- smart in the military. I'm just saying a person with IQ 150 is LESS likely to end up working for the military than one with IQ 90. Not that he is -ZERO- likely.

      I'm not even going to bother responding to your 2 straw-men.

    37. Re:In before.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm not sure who else is buying the Carter era propaganda that the Army is a bunch of idiots, but I can tell you for sure that the Air Force is.

    38. Re:In before.... by urcreepyneighbor · · Score: 1

      but they all graduated high school or earned a GED (vast vast majority graduated high school) Sigh. This bullshit, again?

      Having a GED immediately says one thing about the person that having a diploma doesn't: the person was motivated enough to study and pass the exam. "Earning" a high school diploma doesn't amount to shit today. Show up for class, keep your head down and... wow... you graduate. Yeah. Hm. Really impressed.

      There's also the fact that most GEDers score higher - on average - on the ASVAB than the diploma dorks.

      Not trying to troll or flame, but the "GED = dumbass" meme annoys me. Hope ya understand. :)
      --
      "The fight for freedom has only just begun." - Geert Wilders
  7. Good Idea by DigitalisAkujin · · Score: 1

    This is a totally good idea and should be implemented by educational and business institutions and here's why: #1 It creates awareness for the issue. #2 It will make people pay attention to the URL when using the web. #3 By inciting #2 it will make basic internet security main stream.

  8. Military intelligence? by dougmwne · · Score: 1

    I feel this is actually quite a good idea. ISPs, companies, schools, and other organizations could use this same tactic to train their populations to be spam savvy. Lord knows most people aren't. Come on IT departments, put on your white hat.

  9. Not the answer you are looking for.... by raehl · · Score: 4, Funny

    Because it's Wednesday, and the test was on Monday. Give 'em a chance to process the data!

    Now, on to the answer you were looking for:

    Unfortunately, in the process of transferring a few million dollars left by a distant relative in the State Bank of Nigeria, the soldier responsible for compiling the data allowed his system to be compromised, and all data was lost.

  10. Addendum by oahazmatt · · Score: 4, Funny

    1. Don't ask.
    2. Don't tell.
    3. Don't opt-in.

    --
    Those who believe the Internet is private,
    find their privates are on the Internet.
    1. Re:Addendum by TubeSteak · · Score: 4, Funny

      1. Don't ask.
      2. Don't tell.
      3. Don't opt-in. Hello [Armed Forces Member],
          This is an e-mail from the Army Family and Morale, Welfare and Recreation Command Office informing you that you've been signed up for the "STDs and You" mailing list. To Opt-Out, please visit the following link: hxxp://maliciouslink.com where you will be asked for some basic information to verify your identity.
      --
      [Fuck Beta]
      o0t!
    2. Re:Addendum by nick_davison · · Score: 1

      A little smart application of the third one actually removes the need for the first two.

      Don't opt-in to opt-out holes and try not to opt-out of opt-in holes, then we won't need to ask and you won't need to tell.

      This in a confused world where the Senator Ted Stevens says the internet is a series of tubes and Bush's nomination for Surgeon General says that male and female "plumbing" explains why homosexuality is bad. Clearly they're linked. Teh intarwebs are teh gey.

    3. Re:Addendum by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      3. Don't opt-in.

        This is the Army, son. You already did ;-)

  11. .mil??? by QuantumRiff · · Score: 5, Insightful

    One would think the military would have an easier time than most. You and I cannot register .mil addresses. Shouldn't the people have been looking out for http://mwr.army-support.mil/ instead of http://mwr.army-support.com/ (the link in the email?) Or does the army use .com addresses for some things, cause that seems silly. One would think they could tweak the source in firefox to change the address bar a different color for .mil addresses or something..

    --

    What are we going to do tonight Brain?
    1. Re:.mil??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Do you think your average Army grunt knows anything about the domain registration rules? No. They just want free tickets, and it probably looked legit enough.

    2. Re:.mil??? by Moonpie+Madness · · Score: 2, Informative

      .com is widely used.

      There is nothing wrong with the military's affiliates using .com for legit businesses. Many military arms pull a profit (such as the PX: http://aafes.com/ ) .mil isn't for that stuff. Note that millions of people relying on services like this are civilians.

    3. Re:.mil??? by Dachannien · · Score: 1

      That's what I've always thought about annualcreditreport.com. It's the FTC running the show, so why don't they get a .gov domain name? Now, we're stuck with Experian's crappy TV commercials with that idiot driving the car (die already, will you?) where they trick people into thinking they're the way you're supposed to get free credit reports. They already got their wrist slapped once, but they're still at it.

      http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2005/08/consumerinfo.shtm

    4. Re:.mil??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      F - R - E - E, that spells free...credit report.com baby!

    5. Re:.mil??? by QuantumRiff · · Score: 1

      I completely agree. A previous poster did mention that the "PX" address is a .com, i didn't know that. I'm really not sure about how the militaries domains work, I guess I just assumed. I totally agree with the annualcreditreport.gov, but in Experian's defence, if you were making millions a month, and someone said, "Bad person, here is a $50,000 fine, and if you do it again, we'll fine you in a few months for the same amount!" would you change?

      --

      What are we going to do tonight Brain?
    6. Re:.mil??? by hurfy · · Score: 1

      If you ask google it seems to be armymwr.com and/or armymwr.org

      One would really have to know this somehow ahead of time...to actually go there. None of them LOOK right at first glance ;)

      Gotta agree that mwr.army.mil would seem an obvious and safer choice. At least the few people that looked at the URL would have a chance. Military seems to have quite a few 'odd' named websites for this kind of thing :( I suppose you wait til they print in a newsletter or something ;)

    7. Re:.mil??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      dodmets.com is used by a DoD medical contracter

    8. Re:.mil??? by glavenoid · · Score: 1

      Good point. However, the US military does use the .com tld for some things -- goarmy.com for example. Mostly recruting, propaganda, etc *i think*. AFAIK, most military email correspondence is with a .mil tld, but how many "average janes and joes" would think to notice that?

      --
      I, for one, am looking forward to the inevitable /. beta rollout fallout.
    9. Re:.mil??? by -Tango21- · · Score: 3, Interesting
      That's a great idea but it might have been obfuscated by spoofing and hiding a ".mil" extension within a long hyperlink. I know many organizations that send out requests for information via third party links. I would be that the service men and women who responded to the offer were trained to a certain degree _to do_ the very thing that the Army admonished them for. What I mean is, they are probably so used to replying/responding to such inquiries that they didn't even think twice (heck, they're the Army even trains their soldiers not to obey).

      I'd give the people that responded a break, they seemed very well targeted. There is probably a significant number of people who, if they were on the receiving end of such a targeted offer, would probably succumb to a similar promise. But, as other people have noted, perhaps this will help people question what they see more and not accept things at face value. Who knows, if the Army finds human error too much of an operational risk maybe they will start whitelisting sites people can go to instead of expecting people to identify fine-tuned phishing scams.

      Then again, the only safe network is one that is air gapped, degrading its usefulness but greatly increasing it's security; at least to outside threats - there's always room for user error!

    10. Re:.mil??? by jmkaza · · Score: 1

      MWR is a civilian organization, they don't rate a .mil

    11. Re:.mil??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mostly recruting, propaganda, etc

      Mostly learning how the fuck to spell "recruiting". What a douchebag you are!

    12. Re:.mil??? by jc42 · · Score: 1

      . One would think they could tweak the source in firefox to change the address bar a different color for .mil addresses or something.

      Except that they'd mostly need to tweak the source for Internet Explorer, and they probably don't have access to that. ;-)

      --
      Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
    13. Re:.mil??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lots of DoD websites have been outsourced to consultants who use unsecured .com/.org addresses to conduct training and compliance exercises. In order to record who has followed instructions, these unsecured websites collect personal identifying information. Some of those exercises tell the user not to enter such data on any unsecure website, but the rules don't apply to the contractors hired to implement the training and compliance websites. There were similar issues with the latest "star wars" initiative, bad contracts that had incomplete and out-of-date security requirements, and the contractors only implemented the requirements.

      Why would an MWR website be any different? Besides, it might have even been a .mil address
      they used for the phishing anyway.

    14. Re:.mil??? by glavenoid · · Score: 1

      Mostly learning how the fuck to spell "recruiting". What a douchebag you are!

      I stad the correctd.

      --
      I, for one, am looking forward to the inevitable /. beta rollout fallout.
    15. Re:.mil??? by Genocaust · · Score: 1

      The DoD does use .com domains for commercial recruiting. www.army.com is the recruiting website -- www.army.mil is the business end. Same for all services (I'm AF).
      As to Firefox, well, only IE is authorized. The AF is already pushing Vista and IE7 out across most networks while the Army is still sitting on XP and IE6, as 7 has not been approved for use yet.

      --
      It could be that the only purpose of your life is to serve as a warning to others.
    16. Re:.mil??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The government will occasionally use a .com address, but usually they are .gov and .mil

      However, it should be noted that as of last year, the DoA's official browser was IE and it took a fair amount of begging network admins to run Firefox. Many of the .mil websites don't function properly with Firefox, especially their CAC login and security pages.

  12. Seems fitting by Gat0r30y · · Score: 1

    I always thought phishing was a recreation, why wouldn't it be part of MWR?

    --
    Prediction: The real iPhone killer is going to be sex robots from Japan. Think about it.
  13. Attack! by N1ck0 · · Score: 1

    See its people like this the Military's Cyber Command should be hunting down... Huh?! What do you mean we sent it in the first place? Who should we attack then?

    AP: US Cyber Command commences new attack policy, retaliates against North Korean Cyber Terrorists for Army Spam.

    1. Re:Attack! by Moonpie+Madness · · Score: 1

      ya know, it's pretty likely that the Army isn't just informing its members about online scams, but also getting data for use by the cyber command, the FBI, whoever. It would be handy to know which attacks work against whom, and they know more about that now.

  14. Challenges = Good Security by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Human nature is to focus on important things and disregard unimportant things. Because security challenges don't happen every day, we tend to get lazy and think it's not important. (Blame evolution; your brain just isn't worried about charging lions until it sees one. After that, you tend to watch out for lions!)

    At work, I will always do something to an unlocked computer. Sometimes it's just to open Notepad and write, "This machine has been hacked!" and crank the font size up to 96. Sometimes I'll send an "I Love You" e-mail from the person to the person sitting next to them. (Who I always bring in on the prank, and I have never had a problem getting cooperation).

    Last week, my boss (VP of IT) went into a meeting and left his machine unlocked. I sent *his* boss an "I Quit!" message.

    Now, unlocked computers are so very rare around here. I'm glad for the increased security, but sad that I can no longer prank my co-workers.

    1. Re:Challenges = Good Security by Wonko+the+Sane · · Score: 1

      I love unlocked computers. I always treat the lucky individual to a free desktop makeover.

      I call it: black text on a black background with black menus and black scroll buttons with a solid black background image.

    2. Re:Challenges = Good Security by zippthorne · · Score: 1

      Have you ever actually done this? I imagine there's a proper order, such that if you do it the wrong way, you can't finish on account of the inability to see enough widgets to accomplish the task.

      --
      Can you be Even More Awesome?!
    3. Re:Challenges = Good Security by Wonko+the+Sane · · Score: 1

      Make all the changes at once, then click "apply".

      I've only ever done it on windows machines.

  15. I like it by Daniel+Wood · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I didn't get the e-mail myself(or maybe I did, I'm on leave so I have not checked it in weeks), but this is an example of the kind of tests that the Army should do. Not telling MWR, good idea. It not only gives them an opportunity to see the response of troops, but an opportunity to see the response of MWR to this kind of threat.

    What I think the Army will find most surprising(or not!) is the apparent lack of use of the AKO Webmail system, it sucks, hard. //SPC Wood, Active Duty

    1. Re:I like it by Moonpie+Madness · · Score: 1

      AKO does suck, but trust me, it's extremely convenient in many ways. I've gotten into touch with old pals from a decade ago just be guessing their ako email. You can get your DD-214 in .pdf, handle promotion points, etc etc.

      The only real problem is that you can't forward your emails to gmail style services. But I think that's to help you remember your password or something. I know the email system isn't very good, and you'd be silly to rely on it for personal email. Hope it gets better though.

    2. Re:I like it by Genocaust · · Score: 1

      With the privilege (? lol) of being on an Army base as an Air Force member, I've got AKO access. I will say it's a much nicer system overall than the AF version, "Air Force Portal". Right now our AF portal is even going some overhauls that seem to have broken all the CSS sheets and a good bit of functionality, too :(.

      --
      It could be that the only purpose of your life is to serve as a warning to others.
  16. Why is the army allowed to do this? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Isn't there some law against sending spam?

  17. Re:FIRST POST!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Not only did you not get the first post, but you weren't even close. There are at least 8 posts above yours and yours is 6 minutes behind the earliest. I can't recall the last time I had the privilege to witness such an epic failure. I suppose on some level that's something to be proud of. Quite frankly, I'm surprised you have the mental capacity required to operate a computer. I'm sure scientists will study you for generations to come.

  18. Good by barzok · · Score: 2, Interesting

    There need to be more of these "safe tests" to point out to people that they need to be more careful about their email habits. Maybe, eventually, I won't have to worry about family members getting phished and falling victim to identity theft if they're educated this way.

  19. Education? by JSBiff · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Maybe I'm overly optimistic, but maybe the point of this exercise wasn't *just* about scaring people, but about trying to educate them in such a way that they remember the lesson? So, it could have a longer term positive impact that you credit it.

    They will still need to conduct something like this once every year or two, though, you're right, because 1) yes, people will tend to become complacent, even if they now know better, and 2) Turnover (not apple or cherry) - old people leaving, new recruits joining, need to educate the new guys (and gals).

    Plus, the information gathered in this exercise (not the data entered by the people on the phishing site, but the lessons learned by Command about the phishing attack and what made it succeed) could help them to review and re-write training material / procedures, and policies, to help them tighten up their security longer term. Although, we are talking about the military so who knows? (I kid, I kid. . . honestly, the military for the last 20 or so years has been doing, as far as I can tell, a pretty impressive job of re-inventing itself, and becoming much less bureaucratic than it used to have a reputation for being).

    1. Re:Education? by glavenoid · · Score: 1

      Maybe I'm overly optimistic, but maybe the point of this exercise wasn't *just* about scaring people, but about trying to educate them in such a way that they remember the lesson? So, it could have a longer term positive impact that you credit it. [...]

      Don't get me wrong, I think it's a great idea -- for an occasional exercise perhaps. Like a fire drill maybe. I definitely think there's benefit to educating unwitting participants through trickery, provided there is no real danger involved. I just think other organizations should be careful about trying to emulate this particular exercise.

      I hadn't thought of the data examinations, which were probably the main concern of this exercise. You're absolutely right about that.

      --
      I, for one, am looking forward to the inevitable /. beta rollout fallout.
    2. Re:Education? by Jaime2 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Ummmm.... This was a test, not a lesson. A good test is designed to evaluate something, not to educate or to scare. Now, the Army knows at what rate people can be scammed. This data will either be used to judge the effectiveness of their previous training (if there has been any), or as a baseline to judge effectiveness of future training. You cannot teach during a test without destroying the statistical validity of the results.

    3. Re:Education? by Anguirel · · Score: 1

      Ummmm.... This was a test, not a lesson. A good test is designed to evaluate something, not to educate or to scare. Now, the Army knows at what rate people can be scammed. This data will either be used to judge the effectiveness of their previous training (if there has been any), or as a baseline to judge effectiveness of future training. You cannot teach during a test without destroying the statistical validity of the results. But you can teach after a test to explain what was done wrong and how to improve upon it in the future. Which is where the scare part comes in -- after the test has been administered and the reason for it is revealed, it should scare those who fell for it that they could have just as easily been putting in their information for someone running an real scam.
      --
      ~Anguirel (lit. Living Star-Iron)
      QA: The art of telling someone that their baby is ugly without getting punched.
    4. Re:Education? by somersault · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I think stuff like this should be taught at a more basic level - in school rather than on the job. Nothing wrong with organisations doing it at the moment for the already schooled peeps, but the only way to get rid of phishing scams is to educate people so that they stop being worth the scammer's time. Advertising spam will probably never stop being worth it unless people start using white lists for all their communication, but that's not possible in a lot of situations (like most businesses).

      --
      which is totally what she said
    5. Re:Education? by Kral_Blbec · · Score: 1

      Actually a good test can be an educational tool as well as an evaluation. There are many things that I've learned in life and school from tests, be they literal paper tests or otherwise. For me then i learn and remember more from studying mildly then taking a test and studying what i missed and why then cramming the night before.

    6. Re:Education? by Jaime2 · · Score: 1
      You're mixing events. You learned from the targeted learning that you did after the test, not from the test itself. It's incorrect to say that you learned anything from the test other than what your strengths and weaknesses are.

      This started from the parent of my original reply making this statement...

      ...but maybe the point of this exercise wasn't *just* about scaring people, but about trying to educate them in such a way that they remember the lesson? So, it could have a longer term positive impact that you credit it.
      That poster was being speculative about the potential future actions the Army may take. This test will not have the positive impact from the quote, even if a future independent action might. It is no more correct to attribute that impact to this test as it would be to claim that this test cured cancer. The presentation of the results might be about scaring people and the follow-up actions that come from this might be used to educate people. However, neither of these courses of action could even be considered until after the tests have been collected, scored, and analyzed. Therefore, there could not have been a single cohesive plan to both test and then scare the test takers with the results of the test. The point of this exercise was simply to assess whether there is a real problem. No more, no less.
    7. Re:Education? by The+FNP · · Score: 1

      However, now the Army has a list of the email addresses of people who will fall for this, and they can subject those soldiers to additional training, or perhaps more directed tests in the future. Take the results of the test, and turn them into a lesson, and make sure the lesson is learned.

  20. rated flamebait? by Moonpie+Madness · · Score: 1

    I'm responding directly to something that's relevant to the topic, and specifically giving a reasonable reaction to an obvious troll.

    Not sure how that's flamebait. Granted, I did call an idiot an idiot.

    Face it, whoever rated this down, you just don't agree with attacks on "your side". You know I'm right about this issue.

  21. Dear Seargent or Lewtenant by jameskojiro · · Score: 4, Funny

    Hello, I am the former general Fred Mercasey of Ft. Oscdurity and recently I was relived of command. Not before I had transferred a large amount of C-4 and M-16's in an un-marked supply shed on the outskits of the base. The decision to relive me of command was unjust and illegal. I need your help in helping me reocver these supplies. With your assiatnce I will reward you with 10lbs of C-4 and 3 M-16s. In order for this transaction to happe3n you will need to send a good faith deposit of 3 M1A1 Abrams tanks to and undisclosed location in the Sierra Nacho desert. God Bless and Ten-hut!

    --
    Tsukasa: All I really want, is to be left alone...
  22. They should have known better... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I don't care, they should have known better. I've been a service member, and I gotta' tell you, I would have realized it was a scam the second I read the words "Army Family and Morale, Welfare and Recreation Command Office" ... and tried to pronounce the acronym so I could start using it.

    AFMWRCO... AFMWRCO... wait a minute, something's fishy here...

    Pronounce enough of these and you start seeing a pattern. What is that pattern? Beats me. It's just "one of those things."

    Can I get a hoo-ah?

    1. Re:They should have known better... by DerekLyons · · Score: 1

      Fishy? Not really - as it's astoundingly close to the actual name of the command.

  23. The army has been scamming people for years. by Dopamine,+Redacted · · Score: 0

    Get a bunch of money for college with only four years of service !!!1!1!111!!1!1!!

    * Four years promise applies unless there is a war on in Iraq.

    1. Re:The army has been scamming people for years. by Detritus · · Score: 1

      Most people are aware, or they should be aware, that in the event of a war or national emergency, they may be in for the duration. I was certainly aware of it. That's one of the risks that you take. It isn't the Hooterville Chowder and Marching Society.

      --
      Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
    2. Re:The army has been scamming people for years. by IHC+Navistar · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Actually, that's not a scam. The military will pay for whatever school you can get accepted into. If there is a conflict going on, and you are currently enrolled, you just send in a verification of your enrollment and the military will (they have to) pass over you until your next deployment comes up next, you graduate, or you decide to resume service.

      They cannot pull you out of class. The only time they can pull you out of class is during a natural disaster (National Guard, or in extreme cases, the standing military). If the conflict or disaster gets to the point where they are pulling people out in the middle of class, school for everybody will pretty much be irrelevent to the issues occuring. However, they can keep you deployed for a certain amount of extended time, provided you are already deployed.

      I know it's easy to trash the military, being all high on your horse and born with a silver spoon in your mouth, but until you can actually say you've EARNED your right to free speech, rather than using it because you were born with it, pull your head out of your ass and stop abusing it. Unlike you, obviously, those of us in the military have the guts, balls, discipline, and bravery to fight for our rights at the expense and derision of little pussies like you who talk trash about us while sipping a Starbucks latte in your comfy office. Someone should strap you to the side of a Humvee and use you for armor. Weak armor.

      --
      Knowing Google's lust for data collection, the Soviet Union is still alive and well inside the psyche of Sergey Brin....
    3. Re:The army has been scamming people for years. by Dopamine,+Redacted · · Score: 1
      That's all well and good, unless you opt to do your service first, then do school, so your obligation is shorter.

      I know it's easy to trash the military, being all high on your horse and born with a silver spoon in your mouth, but until you can actually say you've EARNED your right to free speech, rather than using it because you were born with it, pull your head out of your ass and stop abusing it. Unlike you, obviously, those of us in the military have the guts, balls, discipline, and bravery to fight for our rights at the expense and derision of little pussies like you who talk trash about us while sipping a Starbucks latte in your comfy office. Someone should strap you to the side of a Humvee and use you for armor. Weak armor.


      I have, in my life, been denied the ability to petition for a writ of habeas corpus right here in this country you're so fond of claiming is free.

      I have had my rights violated, under color of law, and been denied any redress thanks to procedural technicalities.

      Shut the fuck up about freedom. It isn't available to everyone, even in America. I wasn't born with a silver spoon, I had to fight for every last trace of freedom I enjoy. People were using violence against me in the name of my best interests before (I'm guessing) you could count to five. (It's at least as valid an assumption as your assumption about my silver spoon.)

      Though, it doesn't suprise me that someone who wants to lecture me about how they are fighting for my freedom wants me used for armor for their humvee for execrising that very same freedom they're lecturing me about.

      That's about par for course.
    4. Re:The army has been scamming people for years. by IHC+Navistar · · Score: 1

      "I have, in my life, been denied the ability to petition for a writ of habeas corpus right here in this country you're so fond of claiming is free.
      "I have had my rights violated, under color of law, and been denied any redress thanks to procedural technicalities."

      Boo hoo. So the law didn't let you get your way, because you weren't supposed to under the way it was written. Just because you feel that you should get something doesn't meant that you are SUPPOSED to get something. Freedom and rights do not mean that you were supposed to get something because you feel like it. You didn't get what you asked for because you weren't SUPPOSED to get it. Unitl the judge, or whoever denied your requests, is overruled, justice has been served and freedoms preserved.

      "I have had my rights violated, under color of law, and been denied any redress thanks to procedural technicalities."

      Lemme guess..... You were roughed up by the cops for no reason?

      --
      Knowing Google's lust for data collection, the Soviet Union is still alive and well inside the psyche of Sergey Brin....
    5. Re:The army has been scamming people for years. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "I know it's easy to trash the military, being all high on your horse and born with a silver spoon in your mouth, but until you can actually say you've EARNED your right to free speech, rather than using it because you were born with it, pull your head out of your ass and stop abusing it. Unlike you, obviously, those of us in the military have the guts, balls, discipline, and bravery to fight for our rights at the expense and derision of little pussies like you who talk trash about us while sipping a Starbucks latte in your comfy office. Someone should strap you to the side of a Humvee and use you for armor. Weak armor."

      With all due respect, fuck that. It is a basic tenet of international rights and the history of this country that rights are inherent, neither earned nor given. There are plenty of armchair quarterbacks ready to trash talk the military, but there are plenty of armchair quarterbacks for anything. The idea that rights need to be earned is exactly the sort of thinking which leads to the dehumanization of others because, of course, if they deserved rights they would have fought better for them.

    6. Re:The army has been scamming people for years. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Rights need to be earned now?

      Your opinions scare me more than your e-penis.

    7. Re:The army has been scamming people for years. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I know it's easy to trash the military, being all high on your horse and born with a silver spoon in your mouth, but until you can actually say you've EARNED your right to free speech, rather than using it because you were born with it, pull your head out of your ass and stop abusing it. You "earned" your right to free speech by signing it away when you joined the military?
      And here I thought that you, like every American, was born with the right to free speech.
    8. Re:The army has been scamming people for years. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Free speech is a right that needs to be earned, and you don't do so until you've been in the US military? Fuck you. Fuck you, you stupid little dipshit of a troll, and I hope you get blown to pieces by a grenade the next time you're deployed somewhere. The average IQ of humanity would surely go up if it happened.

    9. Re:The army has been scamming people for years. by quitte · · Score: 1

      I'm probably sitting on my silverspoon fed horse right now. But I EARNED the right of free speach by learning to communicate. We are human. Taking that right away from us is a human rights violation.
      And while you obviously would love to kill to protect your rights I'm prepared to die for my rights. Especially when it comes to this whole terrorism thing.

    10. Re:The army has been scamming people for years. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "fight for our rights"

      You don't really think that's what you're fighting for, do you?

    11. Re:The army has been scamming people for years. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Personally, I never trash the military. I grew up as an Army brat, and I have real respect for service-people. I also agree with a lot of the sentiment you express regarding people that trash the military. However, I'm not sure I buy the whole "military = brave, valorous, doing it to protect your freedoms" argument. Don't misconstrue that statement, because it in no way diminishes the amount of respect I have for military service.

      I believe most people enter the military for a reason. Maybe it's the only place to legally practice your chosen profession. Maybe the thought of combat excites you. Maybe it's a great way to gain experience in whatever it is you really want to do in life. Maybe it's an adventure, with interesting work performed all over the world. Maybe it helps pay for college. Maybe it's a challenge.

      I've known a lot of military people. In my opinion I'd say very few of them were in it *primarily* to defend freedom and serve the public good. It might have tipped the scales between a military vs. a civilian career. It might provide additional job satisfaction. But I don't think it's often the main goal or purpose.

    12. Re:The army has been scamming people for years. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "fight for our rights"

      You don't really think that's what you're fighting for, do you?

      WAIT DON'T TELL ME MIKE IS THAT YOU AGAIN? WOW LADIES AND GENTLEMEN IS MICHEAL MOORE HERE TO TELL US ALL THAT THOSE BOYS ARE ONLY OVER THERE TO GET MORE OIL FOR SHELL, EXXON, CHEVRON ETC. As for all the previous statement I really think that you all should agree that the only people that appreciate the freedoms granted by the constitution are individuals who have had them taken away. Take John McCain for example. POW for years. I think he DID EARN HIS RIGHTS AND FREEDOMS. Oh and I guess we where in Vietam for OIL too like we where in Bosina, Sudan, Germany, Korea, Japan. YOU PEOPLE are so George Bush is the Devil blind that you can't see straight. And I guess that Sadam Hussien was the nicest little dictator the world has ever seen. He did kill any of his own people at all NO!

    13. Re:The army has been scamming people for years. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      While I agree with some of your sentiment, that is just a bit overboard. Every US citizen has those rights because they are citizens, military service is neither here nor there. And in point of fact while you are in the service you do not have those rights (or did you forget the bit about signing away your constitutional rights when you enlisted?). Interesting that inalienable rights can in fact be waived by a contract with the military, but that aside:

        - the US Army (and other branches) are volunteer. While they are important to this country they confer no special privilege, nor should they. They are volunteer.
        - the proper description for military "work" is service. Try it out, you serve in the military and it is military service. The members server the military and the military serves the country. It isn't the other way around.

      I volunteered and served five years. I've been in the service and know what it is like. I also was a civilian before hand and am one now. Most of the country is comprised of civilians. Most of those were not born with a silver spoon in their mouth. Characterizing civilians in that way is neither accurate nor constructive. I feel for every soldier I've met who enlisted because they felt they did not have the money or opportunity to do anything else: while the military can certainly be an opportunity for some, it is less so for those who simply weren't aware of what their options were.

      I advocate volunteering for military service for those who wish to serve their country and by extension fellow citizens, not as a means to escape poor economic environment (that goal is better served by other means) or used as a justification to "one-up" fellow citizens by claim of "earning" something that cannot be earned by virtue of being an inalienable right.

      Tim Doty

    14. Re:The army has been scamming people for years. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Yes the majority of individuals do not join for the "public good" but those that do stay to make it a career understand that they are spokes in a wheel that does at the end of the day kill "bad guys" and provide relief to "needy peoples". Take the sunami for example.

      Now granted the military is not as effecent as it needs to be to accomplish ever task assigned the US military WHEN directed at least tries to make things better then before it arrive. Every member understands at least that princple. No other country or organization in the world can boast the same effectiveness of the US military in terms of size and scale of relief when directed to do so.

      Granted we could do more but and I wish we could but there are too few of us. More places than I care to think about that require security, protection, relief of some sort. Take Dafur for example. But who is going to take on that type of burden? Not really anyone else but us. And unfortunately the US military can't be everywhere at once. And I don't think that the US as a whole can sustain and total global policing, relief effort. It would be too costly.

      Really it boils down to these things: 1. US citzens are too consumed with their own lives to worry about the worlds needs on a large scale. Are you more upset that the more than $3.00 per gallon or the fact that some kid is going without food and water somewhere in the world? 2. No one can guarentee total security and freedoms for themselves unless a colivetive effort is made by someone by force. See the American Revolution. 3. No operation by the military is perfect although we would like to be. The military is a "broad sword" not a "scalple". Mistakes will happen when the military takes on this new warfare that requires a constant evolving guidline to obtain total security. 4.We will never see a total local populace willing to accept our assistance like Japan and Germany after WWII. And nation building is not a military strong suit. The local popluace MUST totally be willing to accept and take on security, provide food, water, medicine.

      Now who is going to take on the difficulty of offering the kind of effort that only the US military provide. No other nation seems willing to step up to the plate as a leader to protect and provide relief on such a large scale that the US can and does.

      At the end of the day I only happy that the US military is doing our best with the resources it has to produce best results possible.

    15. Re:The army has been scamming people for years. by BitHive · · Score: 1

      Insightful? That's funny, I thought we were endowed with certain inaliable rights by our creator, not the magnanimity of GI IHC Navistar who courageously takes orders and carries a gun with his Balls.

    16. Re:The army has been scamming people for years. by rosensta · · Score: 1

      You know, I'm glad someone finally has the stones to speak the truth: we go to war with countries not to control their resources (that is so last century) but to somehow defend my freedom of speech. Thank you, military! I'm sure you'll be well-pleased to know that I'm using my freedom of speech to do the very thing it's intended for: criticize everything. If that makes me unlikable, or even (shudder) unpatriotic, well, you military people have only yourselves to blame. If you were not out there defending my free speech, I wouldn't be sitting here sipping my Venti Americano (with five ice cubes and room for milk) and writing this drivel in the first place.

      Remember: if you don't like what someone is saying, don't blame them--blame their ability to say it, and by extension, the military!

    17. Re:The army has been scamming people for years. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      hoooa!!!! Airborne all the way!!

    18. Re:The army has been scamming people for years. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      my only consolation is that fuckheads like you are more likely to be killed

  24. Dear sir by sootman · · Score: 3, Funny

    Your post advocates a
    ( ) technical
    ( ) legislative
    ( ) market-based
    (x) military
    approach to fighting spam...
    --
    Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
  25. Wow, Humorix's predictions are coming true! by Doug52392 · · Score: 1

    From Humorix's "2008: The Year in Preview" (http://humorix.org/articles/2008/01/preview/)

    June 10 -- Word leaks that the major credit bureaus have teamed up with the Republican Party to tabulate a "Gullibilty Score" on every American citizen. The system assigns a score based on how easily each person can be swayed with propaganda and shiny things.

    Using the system, the GOP compiles a list of the top 12 million most gullible voters and starts a saturation campaign to hit them with mailings, automated phone calls, and door-to-door visits. Explains a campaign worker, "We've been wasting our time trying to fool all of the people some of the time. Instead, we now have a list with some of the people that we can fool all of the time!"

    The timing's a little off, but it seems to line up :)

  26. Ignorant goddamned military, yet again by billcopc · · Score: 0

    The thing about this test is it would fool even clever people. The domain they were linking to is "mwr.army-support.com" well I don't know about you, but at first glance that looks somewhat legit. If it were "www.usarmy.8k0ng123u.cn", well I'd add another C-class to my IP filter.

    --
    -Billco, Fnarg.com
    1. Re:Ignorant goddamned military, yet again by treeves · · Score: 1

      Not really. Any legitimate Army website should be in the .mil domain.
      Still they picked an ironic command to spoof - this whole exercise must've been just great for morale. "87% of Army personnel were successfully conned into revealing personal information by a phishing e-mail and website. Go ARMY!"
      (I made up 87% - it's a joke.)

      --
      ...the future crusty old bastards are already drinking the Kool-Aid.
    2. Re:Ignorant goddamned military, yet again by rampant+poodle · · Score: 1

      The Army, (and other services), also use .com, .org and .biz domains. The actual Family & MWR Command site is armymwr.com. This is primarily done so that soldiers, sailors, etc. can reach the, (commercially hosted), sites from home computers. Lots of .mil and .gov domains restrict huge chunks of the Internet from accessing anything.

  27. and by Mactrope · · Score: 0, Troll

    reinlist.

    I'm sorry it's not funny because the bigger scam was to not let people leave. For that lack of choice you all have my sympathy and condolences.

    --
    http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=216934&cid=17629948
  28. this paper says i are smart... by CaptainNerdCave · · Score: 0

    graduation does not always equate to being smart; i remember meeting several people that graduated from high school who were unable to read above an arbitrary third grade level. at the new alumni dinner (gathering to celebrate the new graduates at my college), i recall asking some other students in-depth questions about their majors (subjects i had also studied on my own time), and about 50% didn't understand my questions. i think it's a horrible fallacy to assume that someone has intelligence in any given field just because they have a piece of paper.

    1. Re:this paper says i are smart... by Moonpie+Madness · · Score: 1

      Sorry pal, but you're going to have to back up that extreme position you're taking, because all research indicated there is a correlation between high school graduation and intelligence.

      Sorry you met a dumbass or two with a diploma. But I'm relying on facts and you're relying on anecdote and claiming I'm the one with the fallacy.

      Sure, there are geniuses who fail to graduate. There are tons of morons who do graduate... but the group of non graduates is definitely dumber, as a group, than those who did graduate. Anyone disputing this had better have something freaking powerful to rely on (of course, no such evidence exists because I'm right).

    2. Re:this paper says i are smart... by CaptainNerdCave · · Score: 0
      did you notice how i did not indicate that ALL high school graduates are lacking intelligence? did you notice how my statement is one that does not presume much because it does not state that "all X are Y" but only that "some X are Y", and my second statement is one that we both know to be true (unless you can assure yourself that everyone - with a diploma - you've ever met meets your arbitrary criteria for intelligent). you, sir, have gone far out of line by assuming that i condemned your point as fallacious.

      and because i'm picky about it: perhaps you should not refer to your temporary nemesis as "pal"? further, you most certainly would not apologize to this adversary.

  29. According to them, roughly 30% by ronabop · · Score: 3, Informative

    http://www.army.mil/-news/2008/04/02/8265-phishing-e-mail-to-mwr-patrons-turns-out-to-be-army-exercise/ 10,000 mails sent, 3,000 visitors to the site (enough to gather IP addies, browser agents, etc.).

    1. Re:According to them, roughly 30% by Kral_Blbec · · Score: 1

      Not quite. Its one thing to visit the site, another to actually enter in data. And who really cares what browser agent they are using? IP i can understand you dont want to post (even though some forums do log it publicly), but browser? I use Firefox from a USB drive. Hack me. (Really, please try. This is a public terminal)

  30. Redundant? by PPH · · Score: 0

    They already fell for the pitch at the armed services recruiting center. What more proof do you need?

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
  31. Anti spam webinar, Why Today's Spam Filters Fail by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Spam isn't just a big nuisance; it's big business as well. So why is spam persisting?
    Ferris Research estimates that spam will cost $140 billion worldwide in 2008, of which $42 billion will be in the United States alone. If you compare these numbers with Ferris's 2007 estimates of $100 billion and $35 billion, you'll see that the cost of spam has increased substantially over 12 months.

    Register for a complimentary Webinar conducted by Abaca and Ferris research to know more about how you can stop this nuisance. To register please click the link below:
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  32. Re:many mislead by nazi trivial minutia scams by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Offtopic...

    Having mod points and browsing a -1 I am curious if some of these troll post actually contain encrypted messages?
    Perhaps the frequent odd use of caps in these messages is actually some form of key.

  33. Mod Parent Pompus Prick by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Fighting in our military with other countries (for no purpose, especially) doesn't mean someone deserves basic rights like free speech more than others. That's just stupid. The whole point is that everyone gets them; you don't have to "earn" them.

  34. Brings to mind... by Adambomb · · Score: 1

    the sign hung over the door to The Asylum.

    I agree with your point though, a toothpick is not going to suddenly cause the office building across the street to collapse.

    --
    Ice Cream has no bones.
  35. It's actually easy to lift your load... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...by simply installing some porn on the user that forgets to enter his password each time. The problem will surely disappear soon :=)

    1. Re:It's actually easy to lift your load... by somersault · · Score: 1

      What method would you recommend? Stapling it to his forehead, or perhaps just a tattoo while they sleep?

      --
      which is totally what she said
  36. poking fun isn't fun by LouiseV · · Score: 1

    Let's cut these guys some slack. It's happened to the best of us. (me too...I say in a hushed voice). And who isn't enticed by free stuff?

    LouiseV

  37. They never listened to Jack D. Ripper, obviously by laejoh · · Score: 0

    Your commie has no regard for human life, not even his own. And for this reason, men, I want to impress upon you the need for extreme watchfulness. The enemy may come individually, or he may come in strength. He may even come with the email signatures of our own troops. But however he comes, we must stop him. We must not allow him to gain entrance to this base....

    His foreboding words include three simple rules: (1) trust no one, despite his uniform or rank unless he is known personally, (2) anyone or anything that approaches within 200 yards of the perimeter of the base is to be fired upon, and (3) if in doubt, shoot first and ask questions afterwards.

    ..in the two years it has been my privilege to be your commanding officer, I have always expected the best from you, and you have never given me anything less than that.

  38. absolute authority and absolute trust by peter303 · · Score: 1

    This is the core of the military, especially in active combat. You subsume yourself into the greater whole to complete your mission and survive.

    I would find it doubtful that a true soldier would approve scams. perhaps this is an idea from some computer consultant.

  39. I fell for this by skroops · · Score: 1

    I fell for this trick, as did alot of the people in my office, but there are some important points before you reinforce your ignorant military stereotype.

    1. This wasn't like real phishing. The website didn't ask for any real information, just a name and e-mail address.

    2. Soldiers are used to getting free shit. The Army MWR does give out free tickets to amusement parks.

    3. The e-mails were sent from trusted addresses at headquarters. This is obviously not a good excuse, as it's the number one thing that causes these types of things, however it did add to the problem.

    Would you really be so suspicious of a "phishing" website that didn't actually ask for any personal data? I think most people's red flags for phishing go off when they are asked for a social security number, password, or other more personal information. How many times in a year do you provide your name and e-mail address to a website that you don't really trust in order to get some service from that website?

    That being said, I should have known to look at the URL, but I didn't. If only 30% of people signed up for the website, I think it may be actually be a good thing. That means that the training that army does to prohibit things like this is working. The thing here is that you have to acknowledge the difference between military and civilians when forming your opinion. As a civilian you don't often have people giving you free shit, but in the military it's a common occurrence.

    I can't think of a really good analogy, but if you received an e-mail from your friend telling you that you could get in on a World of Warcraft expansion early beta test, you click the link, and then a page asks you for your e-mail address and password, there's a good chance that most people wouldn't notice that http://www.worldofwarcraft.blizard.net/beta is not the real server. And since it's just asking for an e-mail and name you probably wouldn't care. I don't know if I've made my point but anyway there it is.

    1. Re:I fell for this by skroops · · Score: 1

      I fell for this trick, as did alot of the people in my office, but there are some important points before you reinforce your "ignorant military" stereotype.

    2. Re:I fell for this by junglelf2k · · Score: 1

      Glad you brought a little light to this aspect. After the first Gulf War which was before the saturation of email, a big amusement park in Virginia offered free admission to members of the Armed Forces as their way of saying thank you. For a little while, many of us thought it was junk mail, being a little suspicious of the generosity. My little family unit had a great time! So, I'm guessing I'd have probably "fallen" for this too. Clearly, I'm a Neanderthal idiot.

  40. Check your numbers by Dire+Bonobo · · Score: 1

    Compare that to kids in the average US city, where 50% do not graduate high school.

    You have a very strange idea of the "average US city", since the current high school completion rate is 86%.

    That number includes GEDs; since the military number does as well, it's deceptive to do otherwise. If you want to exclude GEDs, you get 71% for civilians and 71% for the latest batch of army recruits.

    Perhaps you got your 50% figure here, which was talking about rates in a minority of cities, excluding GED. Cherry-picking that minority of cities and comparing that to GED-inclusive rates is, obviously, rather disengenuous.

     

    The Army is certainly a lot smarter than the general population.

    You seem terribly certain of a claim you have no evidence for. Let's look for some, shall we?

    The average IQ of an enlisted man in 1998 was apparently 105, based on comparison to a 1980 test. Thanks to the Flynn Effect, IQ in 1998 should average 105 on a 1980 test, meaning the IQ of US military recruits appears to be totally average.

    I'm sorry if that interferes with your self-aggrandizing, pro-military chest-thumping, or with the self-aggrandizing, anti-military chest-thumping of the people you're getting irritated by, but the simple fact of the matter is that evidence suggests military folk and civilian folk are just as smart as each other. Rather than "dumb grunts" or "dumb civvies", the only lack of intelligence here appears to be on the part of those making the ill-informed stereotypes.
    1. Re:Check your numbers by Kral_Blbec · · Score: 1

      IQ is not the only way to measure intelligence.

  41. Fascinating argument by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Get a bunch of money for college with only four years of service !!!1!1!111!!1!1!!

    * Four years promise applies unless there is a war on in Iraq.

    Unlike you, obviously, those of us in the military have the guts, balls, discipline, and bravery to fight for our rights at the expense and derision of little pussies like you who talk trash about us while sipping a Starbucks latte in your comfy office. Someone should strap you to the side of a Humvee and use you for armor. Weak armor.

    Step one: disagree with someone complaining about stop-loss.
    Step two: launch an abusive tirade with thinly-veiled threats of violence.
    Step three: wonder why that didn't make anyone respect soldiers more.

    It's almost like you objected to the parent poster not suggesting that soldiers are violent morons, and felt the need to act like a violent moron to make up for it.

    I agree with you that some people have an unfairly-poor view of the US military, but you sure as hell ain't helping it any.
  42. Military service is for idiots by slydawg1 · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Say what. The biggest probelm with our nation today is the fact that as I type I am wasting time that could be put forth for a more useful purpose. As for the individuals in this talkback that think the military is full of a bunch of idiots. Today's US military is the best educated in the world.

    Here are some numbers just from the Air Force alone:

    - 72 percent of enlisted personnel have some semester hours towards a college degree
    - 17 percent of enlisted personnel have an associate's degree or equivalent semester hours
    - 5 percent of enlisted personnel have a bachelor's degree
    - 0.01 percent have a professional or doctorate degree

    And that is just the enlisted. So to those that think that the US military is for dummies. And that military serves no useful purpose please go to Indonesia, Pakistan, Afganistan, or countries in the Horn of Africa and say you know "I don't want to disappoint you but we are getting rid of our military and all that food medicine, free doctor's care , new water wells, electricity, that you have been recieve via our military is not going to be provided to you any more. Oh and those fanatics that have been threating you for years now we aren't going to protect you from any more because we are getting rid of our military." Also include the the following while you are at it. "Oh you know that development of that dam to keep your land from flooding every year that causes disease and destroys your crops well the Corps of Engineers are a part of our military and well thier gone too."

  43. Opt out and be drafted? by Bushido+Hacks · · Score: 1

    Would it not be the most malevolent idea if some how you opted out of their e-mail and inadvertedly be drafted into military service.

    Imagine how that would work.

    --
    The Rapture is NOT an exit strategy.