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Monster Cables Pushes Around the Wrong Small Company
Alien54 writes "Audioholics has a fun read regarding a recent legal dustup involving Monster Cables. The well-known (some might say notorious) cabling company sent a cease and desist letter to Blue Jeans Cable over a supposed patent violation. What the Monster folks couldn't have known was that Blue Jeans president Kurt Denke used to be a lawyer. His response is as humorous as it is thorough. ' Let me begin by stating, without equivocation, that I have no interest whatsoever in infringing upon any intellectual property belonging to Monster Cable. Indeed, the less my customers think my products resemble Monster's, in form or in function, the better ... If there is more than one such connector design in actual use by Monster Cable as to which appropriation of trade dress is alleged, of course, I will require this information for each and every such design. On the basis of what I have seen, both in the USPTO documents you have sent and the actual appearance of Monster Cable connectors which I have observed in use in commerce, it does not appear to me that Monster Cable is in a position to advance a nonfrivolous claim for infringement of these marks.'"
I read every word of that rather long article, and all I have to say is "OWNED". Wow. Normally I refer from such Internet slang, but I really believe in my heart that it applies here.
In my opinion, Monster cable has been taking advantage of the lack of technical knowledge of the general public to convince people to buy EXTREMELY expensive cables, when much cheaper cables would provide equal performance.
Performance of audio systems is not heavily affected by cables, if only the size of the wires is adequate.
Slashdot reposts a story found on Gizmodo that Gizmodo found on Digg that was first seen on reddit that...
The best line of the reply has to be "Not only am I unintimidated by litigation; I sometimes rather miss it."
Dear Monster Lawyers,
The mention of similarity between my company and yours makes me throwup in my mouth a little. Your threats are empty and vague. You provided no details to your patent hissyfit.
If you're actually attempting to prove you own a patent on the RCA connector, then fuck you and the horse you rode in on.
Sincerely,
Kurt Denke
I refer my learnèd friend to the case of Arkell v Pressdram.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
... As to why patent reform can't come soon enough.
This is my opinion. To make sure you don't steal it, it's covered by the DMCA.
Every small company I've worked for has been shaken down this way.
Step 1: Giant company sees small company as a real or imagined threat.
Step 2: Initiate patent or Trademark litigation.
Step 3: Repeat step 2 until small company is sunk under a mountain of legal bills.
Step 4: Profit!
http://www.maxineudall.com/2010/02/should-economists-be-sued-for-malpractice.html
I think this deserves an "OH SNAP!"
My Sysadmin Blog
While I'm not defending monster in any way, the information there on the experiment doesn't say what kind of music was played. If it were some rock album with some amount of distortion in the guitars already, then a coat hanger may really be just as good. Playing classical music with long silences over a coat hanger, however, may provide audibly different results than real cabling.
I will begin by addressing your trademark/trade dress claim. You have referred to two trademark registrations, and have attached some printouts from the USPTO system but the depiction of the marks on the drawings provided is small and indistinct, making it difficult to determine exactly what the alleged resemblance is, and I need further information from you. This made me laugh. Monster Cable wants to initiate a trademark suit and can't send a legible image of the trademark? Sounds like something SCO would do...
Tomato wedge sperm darts that are Republican.
And we need them in a serious way. People who know their stuff, know what the legal system is supposed to be used for, and stand up for themselves in a positive way.
I hope we see more small companies and individuals do this in the future.
Further, if any of these patents or trademarks has been licensed to any entity, please provide me with copies of the licensing agreements. I assume that Monster Cable International, Ltd., in Bermuda, listed on these patents, is an IP holding company and that Monster Cable's principal US entity pays licensing fees to the Bermuda corporation in order to shift income out of the United States and thereby avoid paying United States federal income tax on those portions of its income; my request for these licensing agreements is specifically intended to include any licensing agreements, including those with closely related or sham entities, within or without the Monster Cable "family," and without regard to whether those licensing agreements are sham transactions for tax shelter purposes only or whether they are bona fide arm's-length transactions.
No comprende? Let me type that a little slower for you...
When digg first came out, I thought it an incredible improvement on /. as far as getting timely stories, if they would only get nested comments. But then the fanboys hit, duplications made /. look as staid and conservative as the New York Times, and I gave up on digg. Far too much noise for far too little signal.
/. has improved immensely. No doubt the competition helped, but I care not where the incentive came from, only that /. gets better and better.
And since then,
Infuriate left and right
I purchased some Monster Cables for my home theater. Now the damn connectors are coming off my speaker wires. I took them apart to find out that connectors are held on by a shoddy crimp job. For what they cost they could at least solder them. The rubber shielding is even starting to deteriorate. Not worth the money.
One of our competitors trademarked the term "hypothesis". From now on, we will call them "boneheaded ideas".
I have not enjoyed a letter like that in a long while.
I think I have a new rule, right after "never go in against a Sicilian when death is on the line!" "Never challenge a former litigator who misses his old job."
Now, the real issue here is that every frakking time a large east-coast firm throws up some completely contrived and in this case completely confused claim of infringement, where is the Lawyer that will be able to send something like that on behalf of the poor schmucks that DIDN'T come out of a heavy damage litigation background?
Does the DOJ need to aggressively treat all patent infringement claims such that the one filing the claim is audited by federal attorneys for relevancy? Should the patent office send out investigators and rip the claim apart before it gets to court?
I, for one, would be SOL if a company the size of Monster came after me. I can't even START to mount a defense for this kind of thing. I applaud Mr. Denke but at the same time, I have to say that this is a serious lament for the system. You have to be a high-class lawyer to get this crap out of your company's hair.
Did you in fact read the article you're posting?
The Consumerist did no such comparison. Rather, a reader sent them a 4 year old post from a random dude on another forum, which the Consumerist quoted and posted, turning it into a popular Slashdot meme.
Groupthink at work, gotta love it. The burden of proof is always non-existent when it backs up your pre-existing notions of truth.
Not only does he completely and thoroughly tear Monster's case apart, he also points out that Monster uses a Bermuda-based company for IP holding to shift income offshore and avoid paying US taxes. Not illegal per se, but also not something Monster would want broadcast.
Although it may have taken some time to write this he absolutely ensures that Monster will never mess with him again and decreases the chances of Monster going after anyone in a similar fashion. He has done in probably less than a couple of hours what would normally take months of messy litigation.
This guy is a hero.
If you don't want to repeat the past, stop living in it.
Wouldn't the RCA connector patented by.... oh, I don't know.... RCA?
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
I believe the proper iSlang is PWNED!
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
Amusingly, for many years Monster stayed away from the types of cables where quality matters, like VGA cables. VGA cables have a high-bandwidth analog signal, and long (10m or so) VGA cables have transmission-line type problems, where mismatches or crosstalk result in ghosting or blur at the monitor. For short tables, it's not a big deal, but as length increases, it matters. There are lots of crap VGA cables out there. Still, above $15 for 10m, you're overpaying.
HDMI cables have to carry 340MHz, so they're transmission lines. There's a certification process, and if the cable passed it, it should be OK. There are phony HDMI cables out there that don't pass the spec, but all certified cables should work equally well.
There's something to be said for gold-plated connectors, especially for something that's frequently unplugged, but the cost of the gold is trivial.
Their prices on long lengths of HDMI cables are actually downright reasonable. $38 for 24 gague, 50-feet in your choice of color and connector? That's better than Monoprice...
It looks like a porcupine, and boy does it growl like a porcupine. Monster Cable Products Inc, would you like to try a bite and see if it tastes like a porcupine?
My company has received warnings letters about possible patent infringements on our part. As manager of R&D, I've helped respond to them.
The main thing to keep in mind is that such patent infringement claims are mostly bluff. Sending a letter to a company claiming patent infringement is a relatively cheap thing to do, and might result in a competitor discontinuing a product or paying a license fee. But responding to such a letter in a coherent, technically competent, and determined manner is often enough for the patent holder to back off. They don't want a legal battle any more than you do.
Indeed, if you can make a case for prior art then the patent holders will really want to avoid a fight, for such a battle might invalidate their patent.
Absolute power corrupts absolutely. indymedia
Monster is hiring a paralegal - bet you would be kept busy! https://jobs-monstercable.icims.com/monstercable_jobs/jobs/candidate/job.jsp?jobid=1503&mode=view
Going on means going far
Going far means returning
Just in case anyone doesn't know of them, Monoprice has been my cabling place for years. Good prices, reasonable shipping.
"TK-421, why aren't you at your post?"
Bose has been doing this for years as well. It's amazing to me the chasm between the home users who buy the stuff and the true audiophiles and sound engineers who won't touch it. In the long run, I suppose it is all subjective - if it sounds good to you, then your money is well spent. I just take issue with companies using suspicious claims to support their "innovative" technology.
The 5 seconds of silence on the other end of the line before the "Uuuh, I think I need to talk to my supervisor" was classic. Took them only a few more minutes before all those horrible problems with my mortgage just vanished.
Since then I've been a lot more accepting of lawyers- calling down the legal napalm on those assholes was one of the most fun things I've ever done.
"Seven Deadly Sins? I thought it was a to-do list!"
I've bought cables from them before, they always struck me as the perfect antidote to the snake oil industry. This only increases my respect for an already respectable company.
I loved every word Mr. Denke wrote...freakin' brilliant. Kudos to him for fighting back.
Two things. I've had some high-powered lawyers across the table from me on 3 occasions and so far, I'm 3-0. There IS an assumption these big firms make along the lines of threaten and terrify people until they give it up. Sadly, that works pretty well...until someone like Mr. Denke comes along and says "wait just a damn minute!"
In my most "fun" case, I leased a new Jeep Cherokee for business use in 1984. I had it for exactly 35 days, several of which the Jeep spent in the dealer's service department. The thing was a TOTAL lemon. The first time I tapped the horn, the entire button, retaining ring, and spring flew off. The first cassette I popped into the "premium" audio system was eaten so badly the unit broke. Rear window defroster...no electrical connection. And so on. On day 35, I picked the Jeep for the 4th or 5th time...in a month...and discovered they hadn't fixed the latest problem, just ordered parts, and I was to "call every few days to see if the parts have arrived". I walked into the Leasing Manager's office, handed him the keys, notified him I was surrendering the vehicle under the terms and conditions of the lease in the Section for Early Lease Termination. I agreed to pay $900 to get out of the lease as the agreement stated a 6% charge on a 1st year termination. OK, $15,000 Jeep....that's $900. I walked out, got a cab, and bought a Nissan truck the next day.
A few weeks later, I get served. The leasing company WHOLESALED a new Jeep that had 400 miles of driving on it for $9500 and presented me with the difference...about $6000. And placed an entry with the credit bureaus that I had "defaulted" on a loan. I countersued the dealership, their employee, and the leasing company. We went to deposition...myself and my small-town lawyer...and sat down with about 15 people from the other side. Other than myself and the lady typing, it was all lawyers. The lead guy, "Rudy", did everything but punch me. I smiled, we presented our evidence, and left. In the hall, the dealership lawyers offered to pay the leasing company themselves if I would drop the countersuit against them. In the end, I paid them nothing. They even paid MY attorney. I still smile every day or so about that one.
2nd thing: Monster cables are NOT very good. I have an extensive background in electronics and have made thousands of cables of every description. I also play bass in a working band and run 3 basses during a big show. I tried a Monster Instrument Cable...at a premium price...and found it to be trash. A handmade "Radio Shack" special worked as well. I now use Planet Waves cutout cables and have never had a problem. In the studio, I'm going straight to the board and listening to the mix with Sennheiser phones and the PW cables sound as good as anything I've made or used. And before the "audiophiles" jump in with the "warm" and "bright" crap, MY former life was as an engineer for a major A/V firm that does work from coast-to-coast. Wire is wire. 12 gauge copper wire in bulk from the hardware store is just as good as the horrendously more expensive Monster Cable stuff. I only use the PW cables for my basses because of the cutout switch makes instrument changes on stage a QUIET snap and I'm too lazy to build my own....yet.
I am my own gestalt.
Yes, I read the article; I wouldn't link to it otherwise. If you want more precision, s/the Consumerist's comparison/the comparison posted on the Consumerist/.
The article gives plenty of detail on their testing methodology, assuming the original poster didn't make it up, and nothing posted on the Internet can easily prove or disprove that possibility. Thus, take it with the same grain of salt you take with everything else on the Internet.
Prove it.
I actually RTFA, and I must say without reservation that it is completely and totally worth reading the entire thing.
Question everything
Some quick research suggests wire hangers are 12 gauge and made out of solid steel; what the audio cable industry would call "solid core". Monster is a bit evasive about what's in their Monster Ultra Series THX 1000 speaker cables, saying only "4 large gauge copper conductors"; based on other Monster cable products I'd expect they're 12 or 14 gauge stranded wire.
I do a fair amount of single-blind speaker cable tests myself, certainly more than this one anecdotal experiment. Differences here are subtle but I've done way too many comparisons with consistent results to think they don't exist. The best results in any listening comparison are always when comparing with music the listener is intimately familiar with, so their test starts out badly in that regard. Generally I prefer the sound of fat solid wire to anything else. People like stranded wire because it's easy to work with, but it doesn't sound as good as a solid wire of the same gauge. Accordingly, I'm unsurprised that they found the solid steel coat hanger wire to be similar to the Monster cable.
The thing most people miss about that article is that there were two listeners who were cable of hearing the difference between the Monster product and the Belden cable they started with, suggesting there is an audible difference to cables--just not a major difference between the Monster and the hanger. I suspect that further, better tests would show a ranking like this:
Belden 14AWG Stranded Copper < Monster 1000 ~= 12AWG Solid Steel < 12AWG Solid Copper
I've had audiophile speaker cables here up to the $1000 price range (but not the expensive Monsters, their stuff is awful per dollar). Nowadays I'm usually happy with some hand twisted pair designs I wired up with 12AWG solid copper purchased from Home Depot. It's certainly superior to the 14AWG stranded cables I made out of an extension cord also purchased there. The extension cord "design" does sound better than most cheap speaker cables, including the budget Monster line; it is good quality copper and almost thick enough.
Nah, nah. It's "Poned." As in, "Ponied." ...PONIES!!!
Bravo. Just fucking bravo.
Weaselmancer
rediculous.
Just have Kurt write a letter to them too.
Weaselmancer
rediculous.
When was the last time you heard an elderly gentleman say "get off my yard" in a civil voice to a bunch of rowdy teenagers?!
I'd be inclined to do so, but punctuate my civil voice with a few shotgun blasts in their general direction.
You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
"You are in possession of at least seven orifices. Your website demonstrates fifteen cables, one of which you may discard. If so, the other fourteen are still under the terms of your retributuion. You will now insert those cables into the orifices in the 1-1-1-1-3-1-7 configuration."
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
Consider legal insurance. I pay about 6 euros per month for it, and with that I can access a hotline which gives immediate access to one of the insurance's lawyers specialized in the covered area. They will first help you solve the matter the cheapest way, without going to court (e.g. by writing a letter or giving advice like the parent poster had). This already saves you a lot of time and money and stress. And if it would go to court, the insurance fee will pay itself back in no time.
molmod.com - computing tips from a molecular modeling
Although Kurt is the owner of Blue Jeans Cable, I need to remind some of you that Monster is coming after Tartan Cable (which is also owned by Kurt). Tartan cable is Kurt's economy line of cables... it's all "Made in China", it's inexpensive, and by all standards, just as good as any of the other stuff bought at Best Buy or Circuit City - just less money. Blue Jeans Cable sells what is known as broadcast quality cabling. Basically, it's the same stuff you'll find being used by professional broadcast engineers in television studios, radio stations, A/V post production houses, and the like. Yes, it's more expensive than the chinese stuff, but it is mostly Belden Cable and anyone who knows about this stuff will see the value. Yes, for the most part, a lot of what Blue Jeans sells may be considered "overkill" for your run of the mill home theater - that is why the Tartan line of products was introduced. But for those who want what the pros use, Blue Jeans will deliver and not suck your wallet dry in the process.
Looks to me like these guys either stripped their website down to the barest of bare bones to survive what must be DDoS-level traffic, or they have a really crappy website.
I'm thinking that those graphics look like they probably fit into a more image-rich site. They've even done away with their style sheet.
If my guess is right, it shows that these guys are definitely on the ball. Well done! (if not, they really need to do something about that site!)
There appears to be a remarkable resemblance between patent trolls and spammers in that they both appear to like sending things like this out to as many people as they can and just playing the numbers. I'm sure Monster have done this before and either gotten the other entity to just roll over and play dead, but really - they can just spam things like this out to as many people as they want and hope that they can get enough of a percentage of success to make it profitable as its own business process.
Admittedly its more expensive than the near-zero cost of spam, but the principle is the same.
I might be wrong, but I have no recollection of having ever gotten an erection from reading a legal letter before.
Pug
An Invisible Entity of Vast Power whose existence must be taken on faith alone: Liberal Media
Did anyone go to blue jeans cable website? I don't care if they charge less for an HDMI however 30 dollars is still WAY to much for a 6ft cable in my opinion. I got my 6ft hdmi cables on amazon for $3 and they kick ass. Screw Blue Jeans Cable, they're still trying to rip you off, just not as much.
I just found my new favorite cable company! You can't buy advertising like this, Blue Jeans Cable must be thrilled.
Two things I got from it: 1) You are messing with the wrong guy. 2) I am putting my balls on the table. Go ahead, kick/smash them. I will make sure that the resulting damage hurts you a lot more than it hurts me.
I've actually had some stainless/chromed cable ends (can't say for sure. Probably just shiny stainless) corrode over time. One headphone plug in particular takes on a thin dark grey coating every couple years of regular use.
So I take a rag with a little metal polish on it, wipe it off, then clean off the polish. Good as new. I've never had a static connection like one on an amp or piece of home theatre equipment corrode on me.
So you're absolutely right, and in my experience gold is functional but not useful. My favorite cable sham is people selling high-grade shielded, gold-plated connector cables for a home theatre digital signal. Short of being so bad it drops bits, there would literally be no difference in high and low grade - there's really no wiggle room for looking a little better or worse.