Dreamworks Acquires Rights for Ghost in the Shell

Anonymous GiTS fan noted a Variety story informing us that DreamWorks has acquired the rights to Ghost in the Shell and has plans to produce a "3D Live Action" version of the popular anime. This happened apparently because Spielberg is a fan. He says "'Ghost in the Shell' is one of my favorite stories ... It's a genre that has arrived, and we enthusiastically welcome it to DreamWorks." I hope they add a talking donkey.

Comments

Not Spielburg

[Anonymous Coward]

actually it's spelt "Spielberg"

Re:Not Spielburg

[eln]

You'd think so, but actually Stephen Spielburg is Steven Spielberg's non-union equivalent. Sort of like Senor Spielbergo is his Mexican non-union equivalent.

You might think it odd that he would have his own non-union counterpart working at his company Dreamworks, but actually that's a typo in the summary. The actual company that bought the rights is Dreamworks' non-union equivalent, Dreemwerx.

Re:Not Spielburg

[Anonymous Coward]

ACQUIRES.

NOT AQUIRES.

Are the editors here mentally deficient or something?

Re:Not Spielburg

[Poltras]

You must be new here.

Re:Not Spielburg

[Anonymous Coward]

And see, I thought that Spielburg was the town that Steven Spielberg founded to erect his vast estate.

Re:Not Spielburg

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, its AQUEERS, as in "to make something more gayer than it already is'.

Re:Not Spielburg

[speilberg0]

what's that? did someone call me? my ears are tingling

It's not true!

[ductonius]

They've stolen your eyes!

Plot Feel

[eldavojohn]

Does anyone else get a sort of Outer Limits/Twilight Zone feel when they watch Ghost in the Shell? I've only been exposed to what's on Adult Swim but for some reason I liken each episode to those shows. Something odd or peculiar is happening and there is a startling revelation at the end of the episode. I know on the surface it's just a police thriller with sci-fi themes of artificial intelligence and robotics but I still get this feel. I also get the same feel when reading a Philip K. Dick or some of Ray Bradbury's short stories.

Then again, when watch Cowboy Bebop I feel like it's modern day Clint Eastwood western with the shiny veneer of space. And I just read The Watchmen for the first time last week and it felt more like a philosophical analysis of power than a simple graphic novel.

Despite what many times goes wrong with movie adaptations, I welcome this as it will expose the Ghost in the Shell themes to younger people without the insane licensing fees I've come across when trying to acquire this anime.

Re:Plot Feel

[blanks]

If you haven't seen the original version of the first ghost in the shell then you should find a copy of it and watch it. The SAC mini series is great; but the surreal feeling you are talking about from stand alone complex is minimal when compared to the full original movie :)

Re:Plot Feel

[andphi]

I'm extremely wary of this and rather unconvinced that it's even necessary. There are already two GiTS movies. They were both really cool. The pacing on Innocence was very different from GiTS, but the slower pace gives the artists space. The whole thing is really a wheels-within-wheels plot, as another poster has said. Hollywood will either make it quickly and shoddily or take six years (like they did bringing A Scanner Darkly to the screen).

But to answer your question, I see it as a police/geopolitical thriller with heavy cyberpunk and philosophical overtones. I can also see how you would get that feeling. Just looking at the way the movies run (I own both and catch GiTS on TV when I can), the plots do tend toward the late revelation which suddenly pulls everything together (and times turns everything sideways at the same time).

Re:Plot Feel

[Maavin]

That's true. (Well.. it IS a Mamoru Oshii movie..) BUT! SAC ist way more true to Shirow's style than anything else.

Re:Plot Feel

[dbIII]

One thing that is interesting in the setting is that the very existance of the agency the heroes are in really depends upon the sort of corruption they are trying to stop.

Re:Plot Feel

[badasscat]

That's true. (Well.. it IS a Mamoru Oshii movie..) BUT! SAC ist way more true to Shirow's style than anything else.

Well, the original movie really was not like Shirow's style at all - the manga does not have that surreal "Twilight Zone" feel in the slightest. It's very dense and packed with info and it's one of those graphic novels where you've got to sort of immerse yourself in this world that he's created and consider all the problems we're going to come up against in the future and that's what makes it interesting.

Oshii's film is interesting in a totally different way, in that it's less about the world itself and more about this larger question of what life actually is. The world is only really featured as much as it needs to be to support that question and present arguments. That question was there in the manga too, but it was just one of many issues the manga raised. Oshii boiled down the manga to what he thought was the central question, and he stripped everything out that he thought got in the way of that. And that's what left him room to sort of explore the inner workings of the characters a little bit more and create that surrealness, which of course only served to support the theme too.

The second movie, though, was terrible. That was more like masturbation on Oshii's part. I don't think I've ever seen a sci-fi film that's more slowly paced... and that includes 2001: a Space Odyssey (which Oshii clearly uses for inspiration).

Whenever somebody talks about doing a new adaptation of GitS, the question is always whether they'll adapt the manga or the original film. I personally think the manga is basically unfilmable (as a standalone feature film) and whatever film is made then has to basically do what Oshii did and take one element out and focus on that. Maybe there's a different element that can be pulled out than the original film did, but I don't think Shirow's manga can ever really be boiled down to a 2 hour movie. It's probably a mistake to try, and luckily Oshii saw that and made something original and unique on its own. Hopefully Spielberg is that smart.

Re:Plot Feel

[vertinox]

The SAC mini series is great; but the surreal feeling you are talking about from stand alone complex is minimal when compared to the full original movie :)

Its a matter of opinion, but I like the SAC series better than the movies mostly because its more down to earth or in a sense it strives to deal with modern issues in a new context of a society on the verge of dealing with a technological singularity.

That and it often follows into more detail about the lives secondary characters like Batou and Togusa.

The movies are of course better visually and theatric wise, but the SAC series is one of the better Anime series out there to date.

Re:Plot Feel

[Amouth]

you really need to watch the movies and the series in order.. watching a random peice on tv is nice.. and it is good that each one is it's own self contained story (some thing alot of scifi stuff lacks).. but when you put them together you get one of the most complex and creative storylines i have ever seen.. i absolutly love it..

Re:Plot Feel

[Anonymous Coward]

There are three GITS movies. 2 TV series (possibly 3?) and countless Manga/books.

The movies are
Ghost in the shell
GiTS2 Innocence
GiTS Solid State Society

The TV shows are GITS SAC 1 and 2 respectively, and at least as good as the first movie when taken as a complete set.

Re:Plot Feel

[Anonymous Coward]

> Then again, when watch Cowboy Bebop I feel like it's modern day Clint Eastwood western with the shiny veneer of space. And I just read The Watchmen for the first time last week and it felt more like a philosophical analysis of power than a simple graphic novel.

correct, and correct again.

Re:Plot Feel

[Anonymous Coward]

GitS: Innocence is also very wonderfully made, incredibly beautiful, but a lot heavier on the philosophy, symbolism, and all those funny things you learn in high school English class. Definitely see that too.

I've rarely seen anyone be able to produce work of the same artistic integrity and depth as the original creator of anything worthwhile. Artists have unique visions that are practically impossible to imitate without giving up your own artistic creativity (which would defeat the purpose of creating something). LotR probably got closest, but even then, you hear plenty of book fans who have things to gripe about. To be honest, I'd rather see them just leave it alone. The whole series is beautiful as it is, but the last thing you need is it to become the Matrix where lots of people try very hard not to think about any of the ones with a colon in the title.

Re:Plot Feel

[arktemplar]

I agree, even I found SAC (and innocence) to be better than the movies, I read man machine interface and the original GITS, as released by Dark Horse and I was amazed, not just at the art work, but at the depth of the storyline, and the plots and the intricacies and well ... I am sure you get the general idea.

There was this one quote from SAC (by rights its taken from Catcher in the Rye) "I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes ... ... conversations for the rest of my life.", This was what actually caused me to read catcher in the rye.

Deep series on a possible future. A must read/watch.

Re:Plot Feel

[solios]

If you haven't seen the original version of the first ghost in the shell then you should find a copy of it and watch it.

Or better, find a copy of the manga and read that. It's so much better that there's no effective basis for comparison.

Re:Plot Feel

[arktemplar]

They are actually not all simpley self contained, in SAC, the episodes are labelled Stand Alone, or Complex (IIRC). This essentially refers to whether they add to the overall story line and are deeply embedded in it, or whether they can be viewed as 'stand alone' pieces.

Re:Plot Feel

[Amouth]

the Stand Alone Complex is the story line..

Stand (meaning represent) Alone (as one) Complex (though)

almost all the episodes can be viewed by them self for a single understandable story - but all of them together creates one much larger far more developed overline plot which follows the Stand Alone Complex.

Re:Plot Feel

[Knara]

The original GitS movie and Innocence have nothing to do plot-wise with the manga or with Stand Alone Complex. Solid State Society, of course, is in the SAC timeline. The manga and SAC are in different timelines (and different story universes, as key plots and character details are different in each). The movies are best considered standalone to eachother as well.

Re:Plot Feel

[davolfman]

I'm hoping it focuses on the creepy byzantine machinations like SAC then.

Re:Plot Feel

[Amouth]

Innocence does have to do plot-wise.. while it is more than the other movies a single story line it falls between the end of the first and before the second series

Re:Plot Feel

[HairyNevus]

And that feeling will probably never happen again with Dreamworks in control.

Re:Plot Feel

[bioglaze]

I also got my inspiration to read Catcher in the Rye after watching GITS:SAC :-)

GITS:SAC has more content than the movies (of course, 2 seasons vs. 2 movies) and it's more loyal to the manga. I can't name any other series/movies that deal with political/societal issues raised by humans becoming more like machines (except Blade Runner) and machines becoming more like humans.

Re:Plot Feel

[lenester]

Despite what many times goes wrong with movie adaptations

Ghost in the Shell was a movie in the first place. The TV series (Stand Alone Complex) is a spinoff. Not sure what Spielburg plans to do with it at this point...

Re:Plot Feel

[xenocide2]

Counter-terrorism and anti-cyber warfare? That's the official mission of Public Security Section 9. Fighting corruption is a personal mission of Aramaki, who perhaps directs more resources to cases under his jurisdiction when it's possible that corruption is the root cause. That's why Aramaki selects Detective Togusa to serve in Section 9 even though he's not trained in counter terrorism or cyber warfare. Togusa's record of fighting his superiours on ignoring damaging cases suggests to Aramaki that he'll be a reliable partner in his personal war on corruption.

Re:Plot Feel

[blanks]

I agree. Most likely the focus will be on big explosions, a car chase and I'm sure a love story thrown in for no reason.

Re:Plot Feel

[Knara]

No, you are mistaken. The "series" are not in the same timeline as Innocence (whether the "series" means SAC or either the original GitS manga, the Man-Machine Interface, or Human Error Processor series).

Innocence is, however, a re-adaptation (as are many of the SAC episodes) of a story from the original manga. Aside from that, it is considered to be unrelated.

Re:Plot Feel

[Dollar1]

My main problem is that all the best parts cant be duplicated in live action. Like when she's shooting that huge machine gun and it has so much recoil that its ripping her feet through the concrete sidewalk. Some things are best left animated.

Re:Plot Feel

[lgw]

But, hey, at least we'd get a talking donkey! Actually, hang some donkey ears to the AI tanks and it wouldn't be far off, character-wise. Of course, they were my favorite characters from SAC - singing cheerfully while going to their execution was both a heartfelt and surprising moment in an already thoughtful series.

Re:Plot Feel

[redxxx]

I'm extremely wary of this and rather unconvinced that it's even necessary. There are already two GiTS movies. three movies,

GiTS
GiTS Innocence
GITS:SAC:SSS(Ghost in the Shell:Stand Alone Complex:Solid State Society

Re:Plot Feel

[tsm_sf]

Same here... I still remember the episode that largely took place in a chat room as one of my favorites. GitS is good action, but the plot is why I watch.

Re:Plot Feel

[tsm_sf]

He was referring to the words that appear on the title screen. There will be the name of the episode, the episode number, and then either 'Complex' or (I think) 'Stand Alone'. If it's a 'Complex' episode it is directly related to the overarching story, otherwise it's only tangential.

Re:Plot Feel

[Nemo's Night Sky]

There is actually a lot to that point. There were really weird/creative special effects and techniques they used in the movie that don't give exactly the same sensation that you get with modern CG stuff. The DVD I got has a very good description in the special features. The original movie really is the best so far. A work of art.

Re:Plot Feel

[buraianto]

Amen. That scene made me cry, it was so powerful.

Re:Plot Feel

[Constantine XVI]

          GiTS Manga
             /\
            /  \
           /    \
     GiTS Movie  GiTS:SAC
       /           /    \
GiTS Movie #2  GiTS:SSS  GiTS:SAC:2G

Note: The series was true to the manga, the movie was a separate plotline

Re:Plot Feel

[Gideon Fubar]

random robot lesbian sex might be difficult to make into a Hollywood movie, yes.

Also, since Shirow already made a point to explain every little detail, the dumbing down would be so extreme and painful most geeks would kill themselves halfway through the first scene.

Re:Plot Feel

[Gideon Fubar]

You're correct that the episodes are initially identified that way, but the lines are deliberately blurred at many points. There are hidden elements in many of the Stand Alone episodes that are directly related to the wider storyline.

Of course, that's not the only reference to these terms in the series. I severely doubt that Dreamworks will be able to create comparable storylines.

Re:Plot Feel

[lgw]

What got me is that they're singing a folk song that's a parable for a lamb being sent to slaughter, but they leave it open as to whether the tachikomas understand the deeper meaning of the song.

What was really cool though was that is was such a plot twist - the story had built up so far to the cliche "the robota turn on us, figure out we're trying to destroy them, and the battle begins", and then when the moment came we got the far more realistic "*really* the robots don't have a sense of self-preservation, so it's just a sad moment", and I totally didn't see it coming.

Re:Plot Feel

[enoz]

Though those scenes were completely removed from the US version of the manga. As usual US audiences are allowed as much torture, violence, and brutality as you can throw at them, but god forbid they see a nipple (link to SFW editing reports).

Re:Plot Feel

[andphi]

Ah. GiTS:SAC:SSS would be the one I've not yet seen. Thanks.

Re:Plot Feel

[enoz]

Actually, there were two standalone movies:

Ghost in the shell
GITS2 Innocence

And then following the GITS:SAC TV series' there are three more "movies" that are compilations of episodes with possibly some new scenes:

GITS:SAC The Laughing Man
GITS:SAC Solid State Society
GITS:SAC 2nd GIG Individual Eleven

Re:Plot Feel

[Gideon Fubar]

Typical.

Glad i don't really pay attention to mainstream releases, they always manage to fuck it up.
Thanks for the link.

Re:Plot Feel

[davolfman]

And if it doesn't have Tachikomas there will be blood.

Re:Plot Feel

[TeknoDragon]

You mean the anime right? because at least 2 of the 3 English language manga I own have such scenes.

Re:Plot Feel

[TeknoDragon]

I think of the 2nd film as consistent within the SAC/SSS storyline. SSS fits logically after the 2nd movie.

There are also some scenes in common with the manga and GiTS:SAC. Chronologically SAC 1 and 2 take place before the 1st movie. So there may be some manga/SAC overlap, just as there is manga/movie overlap.

By the way - there are also a series of short stories which fit within the SAC timeline and a novel that logically bridges the two movies... and a 2nd manga which stretches way into the future... and a 3rd manga I haven't read yet. ;)

Re:Plot Feel

[DKlineburg]

I am currently watching Bleach, which I am enjoying. I watch a subtitled version that I hope isn't cut and edited. I wanted to get GitS next. Thing is, I only watch subtitled ones, as I hope that I can find more uncut versions in the subtitles.

Re:Plot Feel

[ScottKin]

In your attempt to help clarify which GiTS properties were movies / feature films, you left out a minor technical point:

"GITS: Solid State Society" was neither a compilation or just "new scenes" but was a feature-lenght release that had it's debut on Japan's SKY PerfectTV, and followed the anime series timeline versus Oshii's previous films.

--ScottKin

Re:Plot Feel

[jwo7777777]

Bleach, Naruto, etc ...: characters with questionable motivations fighting it out over hundreds of episodes, deus ex machina moments all over the place, dramatic tension created by angst-ridden monologues ... I don't get it.

I guess it makes sense to the Shonen Jump crowd.

Ambivelant about this

[jimbobborg]

I don't know. On one hand, sounds like a good idea. On the other, some crappy Hollywood writer will find a way to fuck it up.

Re:Ambivelant about this

[Anonymous Coward]

Definitly since the scripts for it will come out from Avi Arad, spielberg a few others and not the original creators, it will lead to dull with little intrigue and shallow twists mostly relieing on the actual good visual artists/animators/programmers dreamworks employs.

Its the downfall of one of the greatest animes ever made.

Re:Ambivelant about this

[RevWaldo]

As GITS2:Innocence demonstrated, even the people who should know what they're doing could fuk* it up.

(* I'm at work.)

Re:Ambivelant about this

[Anonymous Coward]

I am sure Katzenburg will be sure to insist on several kick-in-the-nuts moments - that always makes for good cinema.

Re:Ambivelant about this

[Anonymous Coward]

A remake seems unnecessary, as any improvements will be marginal. It's like trying to remake Dune (which I understand someone is also doing). Much as I love GITS, I think the resources could be spent better elsewhere. Where is the Ender's Game movie? Neuromancer? Snow Crash? Even another GITS sequel would be more worthwhile than remaking the original.

But of course this is Spielberg, who hails from the Lucasian school of Redoing Movies Until They Are Perfect.

Re:Ambivelant about this

[xenocide2]

Really, I don't see how much worse it can get than cyborgs running around playing detective in lingerie. About the only thing a Hollywood writer could do would be to add a lesbian sex scene, but wait, the manga already did that. Lets not pretend that your favorite cultural hero has the moral high ground on pandering, shall we?

Re:Ambivelant about this

[Nemo's Night Sky]

We better get back to that petition. I don't want to take any chances of Uwe Boll expanding his career from killing video games to killing GITS!

Re:Ambivelant about this

[Nursie]

I agree. UIt will be hollywood-ised and spielberged to the hilt.

Imagine, they'll probably spoon-feed the plot, not a usual factor in GiTS. Usually you have to think about it, I'm betting not this time.

It'll be an overly cute girly with a purple dye-job shooting stuff.

Re:Ambivelant about this

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, Spielberg did do Minority Report, which has a GitS-i feel to it. I think he's one of the most capable people to do it. Remember, Spielberg, unlike say... old George Lucas has yet to deliver a terrible film. Plenty of mediocre ones, but never a bad one.

Re:Ambivelant about this

[kandresen]

It was exactly my thought too - I do not believe in Hollywood for these kind of series - I now expect it to be too little thought and too much action.

I simply do not believe in Hollywood for this - the 3D focus already tells me already that the effects is in focus and not the story.

My own ranking the different Ghost in the Shell up to now would be
1) Ghost in the shell - Stand Alone Complex 1st GIG (Best series I have ever seen! Similarities to Puppet Master but with a better story and plot! Very cool integration with many phrases from big thinkers!)
2) Ghost in the shell - Puppet Master (Among the best movies ever made! Front runner to most modern Movies such as the Matrix - Brilliant
3) Ghost in the shell - Solid State Society (Latest movie - holds many references to Stand Alone Complex 1st and 2nd GIG. Increased my hope there may be a good series or movie yet to come)
4) Ghost in the shell - Stand alone Complex 2nd GIG (Far from the quality of the 1st GIG - did not think the series could recover until Solid State was released...)
5) Ghost in the shell2 - Innocence (Very dark - seems to assume Friedrich Nietzsche's Philosophy - not among my favorites - the improved animation does not help)

With Hollywood behind I am already thinking the great story is doomed and it will end up on the bottom together with Innocence for me - probably worse.

3D Anime...

[sadgoblin]

No thanks, anime must stay anime. (just look at the 3D hentai!!! /*jokingly*/)

Re:3D Anime...

[kirbysuperstar]

I thought Appleseed was done well.

Re:3D Anime...

[PitViper401]

I can see Appleseed being the forefather of the next generation of anime. The 3D work in Appleseed was handled brilliantly.

Re:3D Anime...

[twistedsymphony]

Maybe I'm wrong but I don't think the problem most people have with this is the transition from 2D to 3D, the series and the second movie were already done mostly in 3D as it is..

The concern I have, and I think most other fans of the franchise as well. Is that they'll offload the writing task to some cheap American action-film writer as opposed to the original writers in Japan who made the series the deep and mind boggling sci-fi drama that it is.

Not only that but once Hollywood gets their hands on a franchise they almost never sell the rights back to anyone. To me this means that now that they've got GiTS we'll probably never see another film or tv season out of Japan, and if the new owners never get around to making the film... it's already dead.

Case and Point... Battle Angel Alita was a well popular Manga series in Japan, they started making an animated series and it was so popular it grabbed the attention of Michael Bay who wanted to make a Live action movie. This effectively canceled the production of any future episodes of the animated series since they no longer have licensing to do so. It's now 15 years later Bay still owns the rights and fans are still left out in the cold.

Re:3D Anime...

[XeresRazor]

You're failing to understand rights and film options, Dreamworks only has the rights to produce a live action film, this does not replace or remove the existing rights that Production I.G. has in japan that's let them produce the TV series, it also won't affect any rights that Oshii still has for producing more animated films. Likewise Battle Angel produced all the episodes it was ever going to have long before anyone in the US picked up the license for it (and it's James Cameron that's working on it, not Bay, thank god). Battle Angel may still be ongoing as a manga though, I know it switched publishers, and name at one point but I haven't looked recently to see if it's completed it's run or if it's still being serialized.

Re:3D Anime...

[jandrese]

I can't say that I'm entirely sad that Michael Bay isn't creating an Alita movie. Sure he may be preventing other people from working on it, but at least we won't have to sit through a summer blockbuster where she hacks Tiphares with a mac and everything explodes constantly.

Re:3D Anime...

[twistedsymphony]

You're right it is Cameron... I don't know why I said Bay... I got my names mixed...

And you're right that 2 episodes is all they were planning for the OVA that was released. But there also an animated series and additional OVAs that were under talks and got canned when the rights were purchased. They also barred them from producing/selling further copies of the 2 episode OVA that did actually get made.

Re:3D Anime...

[Anonymooses]

You couldn't have put more wrong things into your post if you tried. From: http://www.animenewsservice.com/archives/yukito.htm

MNS: Many fans have wondered, why were only 2 anime OAV episodes produced in 1993? YK: It was based on the plan proposed by the animation production company. It might have been better to turn down the plan and wait for a better adaptation proposal to come up, but back then, I couldn't afford to review the plan coolly. At that time, I was still serializing the work and was so busy that I wasn't ambitious to make it into animation. James Cameron had nothing to do with the lack of continued anime adaptations. That was purely due to the manga artist. Secondly, contrary to the impression you seem to be under, James Cameron only bought rights to do a film adaptation of the series, he doesn't own the actual rights to the series itself.

Re:3D Anime...

[Anonymous Coward]

And you're right that 2 episodes is all they were planning for the OVA that was released.> This is correct.

But there also an animated series and additional OVAs that were under talks and got canned when the rights were purchased. Have any proof of this? Do you have any substantiation from an official source to back this up? Also, how would James Cameron buying the rights to do film adaptations of the series cause any further anime adaptation to be canned? You do realize that James Cameron doesn't own the actual rights to the series itself, right?

They also barred them from producing/selling further copies of the 2 episode OVA that did actually get made. Nope. ADV stopped releasing the series because their rights to release the series on home video had expired and they didn't reacquire a license.

Re:3D Anime...

[Anonymous Coward]

But there also an animated series and additional OVAs that were under talks and got canned when the rights were purchased. Sorry, but this doesn't really follow. According to you an OVA series was canceled because James Cameron optioned the rights to do a live action film version of the series? Huh? Secondly, the reason there hasn't been further anime adaptations is that according to the creator is because there were no plans to do any further anime not because of James Cameron. Considering that James Cameron doesn't own the rights to the series, it's quite a fantastical claim to say that he was able to singlehandedly cancel any further OVA series that have never even been substantiated to ever have been planned.

They also barred them from producing/selling further copies of the 2 episode OVA that did actually get made. Who is this "they" and "them" in this sentence? I assume by "them" you mean ADV but that was due to their license expiring not because of James Cameron. And even if James Cameron also owned the home video rights to the anime series in North America, for which there is no real official substantiation of, he would be unable to tell anyone that they couldn't distribute the anime series.

Re:3D Anime...

[orclevegam]

Battle Angel may still be ongoing as a manga though, I know it switched publishers, and name at one point but I haven't looked recently to see if it's completed it's run or if it's still being serialized. The manga series is still ongoing, but it's a sequel to the original (it's set after the end of the last one with Alita being revived in a new body). I'm not 100% certain but I believe the title is Battle Angel: Last Order, or something along those lines. I'm currently collecting it, but it's being released really slowly in America, not sure on the release schedule in Japan though. The last one was released at least 3 months ago, and it seems it's been averaging about 6 months or so between releases (last one I saw was 9 btw). The series does seem to be winding down though, and I wouldn't be surprised if the next one was the last one. The last couple issues have been flashbacks explaining the background of the vampires, and frankly have been something of a drag, being rather without the title character or anything remotely sci-fi.

they better do naruto next

[OrochimaruVoldemort]

it is way more popular and has a large fan-base in america

Re:they better do naruto next

[_bug_]

by that thinking Sailor Moon and Dragon Ball Z should be next.

Re:they better do naruto next

[ForumTroll]

More evidence that popularity is not an indication of quality.

Re:they better do naruto next

[LocoMan]

Your wish shall be granted (at least half of it).. 8^)

A Dragon Ball movie is already on the works, set to be released in 2009.

IMDB Page: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1098327/
Leaked photos: http://themovingpicture.net/new-dragonball-set-photos

Re:they better do naruto next

[Sciros]

And Robotech. (First person to say "no, Macross" is gonna get pistol-whipped. In the US something named Robotech would make 5x as much money as something named Macross, even if it's the same movie.)

Re:they better do naruto next

[Pad-Lok]

Robotech? Macross? Nonono, I wants some heavymetal! BATTLETECH! No guts, no galaxy!

Re:they better do naruto next

[TheVelvetFlamebait]

Naruto? Even better, Yu-Gi-Oh, the abridged series!

Re:they better do naruto next

[Sciros]

With that sort of "clarification," I'm not sure either of those reach any level of "cool" at all...

Re:they better do naruto next

[RevWaldo]

Exo-Squad! The time has come!

Re:they better do naruto next

[Trespass]

Your wish shall be granted (at least half of it).. 8^)

A Dragon Ball movie is already on the works, set to be released in 2009.

IMDB Page: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1098327/
Leaked photos: http://themovingpicture.net/new-dragonball-set-photos 2009 backwards is 9002. Over 9000. Coincidence? I don't think so.

Re:they better do naruto next

[meringuoid]

In the US something named Robotech would make 5x as much money as something named Macross, even if it's the same movie.

It should actually be the same four or five movies, badly edited together, and then poorly redubbed to cover up the plot holes. Hey, it worked with Shogun Assassin...

Re:they better do naruto next

[gstoddart]

More evidence that popularity is not an indication of quality.

Well, just because you don't personally believe there is any quality to Naruto doesn't make that true. For me, I actually find Naruto to be fun to watch, and it has a nice big story arc to it, with a lot of character development in it.

The good news is, we all get to choose what we like. The sheer popularity of Naruto can't be as easily dismissed as you seem to want to -- people must like it for a reason. The fact that you don't agree is up to you.

I suspect you like a couple of shows/movies/books/bands that some of us would take as a clear sign of your own stunning lack of good taste. :-P

Cheers

Re:they better do naruto next

[solios]

Apparently something is in development for a 2010 release, but I'll be damned if I'm going to bother to get an imdb account to find out more.

I agree, Robotech would probably sell better over here... though Macross Plus seems to have done a hell of a lot better than The Shadow Chronicles is doing.

Having watched subtitled versions of Macross and Mospeada (and having suffered through The Horrors Of Minmei in two languages), I'm weighing in with the (doubtless smaller) pro-Robotech crowd. The core story is pretty good, and it's a formative part of my childhood.

Re:they better do naruto next

[Darundal]

According to io9, they are going to kill Goku either in the first movie or the beginning of the second.

Re:they better do naruto next

[Psmylie]

holy crap, Chow Yun-Fat as Roshi? Man, I'd see it just for that. The production pics make it look pretty horrific, though.

Re:they better do naruto next

[Lord Apathy]

Dragon Ball The Movie. Where they cram a 10 min ass whooping into 2 hours. Rather than the usual 2 months. Yeah, I think I can hang with that.

Re:they better do naruto next

[Lord Apathy]

Now that would be worth seeing. None of those wimpy looking gundam rejects. Lets field some steel. Gundam next to an Atlas. I think it would be a short fight.

Re:they better do naruto next

[steveo777]

2009 backwards is 9002. Over 9000. Coincidence? I don't think so.

While I don't get the reference, that should be about all the sequels they'll need for anything to actually happen.

Re:they better do naruto next

[Anonymous Coward]

Google is your friend!

Re:they better do naruto next

[theonlyaether]

Meh depending on who you ask, robotech and macross are both born of the same idea, but are not the same storyline and have to be taken as separate.

There are some robotech story lines and some macross story lines I'd like to see, actually =))

Invid invasion is by far my fav robotech arc, and I think Macross VII takes the cake in the macross world, although the Valkyries in the Macross II movie were some of the best...I think all in all though, the Macross/Robotech storyline is so expansive they'd end up doing something like Transformers where they just invent a new story for a new toy line...Which, IIRC, is how Macross/Robotech/Transformers were born in the first place.

Re:they better do naruto next

[Sciros]

The variable ships in Macross Frontier look pretty wicked as well. Though the show itself so far is a little insane (the part in the original Macross/Robotech where Minmei is rescued by being grasped from mid-air from a plane's cockpit? they re-did it! T_T)

Re:they better do naruto next

[Araxen]

Battlebots would make even more money.

Re:they better do naruto next

[orclevegam]

According to io9, they are going to kill Goku either in the first movie or the beginning of the second. And then spend the next 3 movies trying to get him resurrected while he trains with a not-quite-dead-yet master to learn the ultimate super movie to defeat the bad guy. Until the next guy comes along and kills him again and he learns a new ultimate super move. Also the entirety of the 4th movie will be him powering up his new super move, and the bad guy trashing his friends.

Re:they better do naruto next

[njen]

fyi, the live action film rights of Robotech belong to Toby Maguire

Re:they better do naruto next

[DiscipleN2k]

How much training do you think Justin Chatwin had to go through to be able to spend the last 45 minutes of the film with his hands above his head making the biggest spirit bomb EVER!

Re:they better do naruto next

[Anonymous Coward]

Provided you ignore the anime, it's actually pretty decent. Not the best or anything, but not too bad. I suggest you try a fan subbed version of the manga. It sucks less.

Re:they better do naruto next

[enoz]

Vegeta, what does the scouter say about his Karma level?

Dumbed down for North America?

[Digital_Quartz]

When I first read this, I thought "Cool!" I'm a big fan of the anime. However, with a series like Ghost in the Shell, one almost has to worry that Hollywood will take the signature wheels-within-wheels plot lines will and severely dumb them down for us "simpleton audiences" on this side of the big pond. Hopefully not; we'll have to wait and see.

Re:Dumbed down for North America?

[Anonymous Coward]

However, with a series like Ghost in the Shell, one almost has to worry that Hollywood will take the signature wheels-within-wheels plot lines will and severely dumb them down for us "simpleton audiences" on this side of the big pond. Hopefully not; we'll have to wait and see. I feel you, I hope they use the same voice actors as from the series and 3rd movie.

Re:Dumbed down for North America?

[Jerf]

It would be neat to see them try the main arc of the first season of Stand Alone Complex, to see the world's premiere meme factory fuck up a story about an prolific, errant meme. Some sort of irony or something.

Re:Dumbed down for North America?

[miscz]

That's because every anime is so fucking deep. Japanese cinema has about the same amount of crap produced as Hollywood and animations are no exception, I'd dare to say that it's even worse - how many ninja schoolgirls fighting alien invaders with gigantic robots while exposing their panties can we watch?

Re:Dumbed down for North America?

[Anonymous Coward]

..how many ninja schoolgirls fighting alien invaders with gigantic robots while exposing their panties can we watch?

That's a rhetorical question, right?

Re:Dumbed down for North America?

[Anonymous Coward]

Keep in mind Masamune Shirow is a fan of American cinema and would often pepper his manga with references. One of the more obvious ones was an Escape from New York reference in an early Appleseed book. I'd hate to see it become some sort of monstrosity, but even if it is that form of failure, the yet another reflection will no doubt be interesting.

Re:Dumbed down for North America?

[Anonymous Coward]

I shudder to think of the Jar-Jarization of the Tachikoma.

Re:Dumbed down for North America?

[Anonymous Coward]

"how many ninja schoolgirls fighting alien invaders with gigantic boobs while exposing their panties can we watch?"

there, fixed that for you!

Re:Dumbed down for North America?

[MSZ]

They will do that. Try it, fuck it up royally, then get Oscar for it.

Alternately, they will try, see that it comes out so bad even they won't release it and can the project.

I'm rather pessimistic since the only (recent) case of "wrong man" that turned out good was LotR, probably because Jackson was doing crap minimal budget movies before and wasn't spoiled by Hollywood. This time they will assign a "pro" and he will do his worst.

And anyway, what's so hot in remaking anime as live-action? I never could understand that.

Re:Dumbed down for North America?

[MSZ]

how many ninja schoolgirls fighting alien invaders with gigantic robots while exposing their panties can we watch?

As many as there is. They are a gift from the God and don't you dare speak against. Filthy heretic!

Re:Dumbed down for North America?

[Samgilljoy]

When I first read this, I thought "Cool!" I'm a big fan of the anime. However, with a series like Ghost in the Shell, one almost has to worry that Hollywood will take the signature wheels-within-wheels plot lines will and severely dumb them down for us "simpleton audiences" on this side of the big pond. Hopefully not; we'll have to wait and see. Actually, the principle reason that movies are dumbed down, and even more so that dialog is dumbed down, is that movies are aimed at a global marketplace. They don't make things stupid for North America; they make things simple and stupid so that they can easily localize a little moronic dialog and market the films across the globe. It's about humanity's lowest common denominator. When you are unconcerned about telling stories that make sense or play well outside of a certain culture or sub-population, you have a lot more room for complexity and depth.

Re:Dumbed down for North America?

[Anonymous Coward]

hmm... you might want to watch the GiTS before you comment my friend!

yesh

[nawcom]

3d bewbs -n- bullets ftw.

It will suck

[Anonymous Coward]

Why did the owners sell it? Didn't it make enough money for them?

They simply couldn't have run out of ideas.

I am pretty bummed about this.

Re:It will suck

[Trespass]

Why did the owners sell it? Didn't it make enough money for them?

They simply couldn't have run out of ideas.

I am pretty bummed about this. I think there's a good chance that Masamune Shirow did. He was displaced by the Kobe earthquake and the rumor has it that he's been in declining health for a number of years. His newer work hasn't really been story oriented... when it's come out at all. The writing team for the series did a great job of rearranging and expanding his stories, but the challenge of keeping things fresh seems great.

Then there's the problem of concepts that were once innovative being absorbed into the mainstream of pop culture: If your stories stay the same, you become a has-been. If you change them to suit the audience you're a sellout. Or you can develop something different entirely. If he develops his work further I wouldn't be surprised if he decided to work on Appleseed again.

Re:It will suck

[XeresRazor]

Actually he has been active, just doing standalone art (he does a lot of stuff for prepaid phone cards and the like) and more recently he's been developing the story concepts for shows instead of directly developing his own work. Ghost Hound last season and Real Drive which is currently airing in Japan are both based on story concepts by Shirow.

Re:It will suck

[HertzaHaeon]

I've mostly seen pretty uninspiring pinup art from Shirow lately. It's a shame, really. Not that I mind sex, but I prefer it as a part of a story and not just as scanntily clad babes with futuristic guns.

Re:It will suck

[Knara]

As far as I've seen he's been doing consigned work for video games and other such projects. The vast majority of it never makes it in to English-language products, however, other than the Intron Depot collections that come out now and then.

sigh...

[theheadlessrabbit]

as a GitS fan, I should be excited by this, but why do i have a feeling that Hollywood will water-down, bastardize and destroy everything that makes the original great?

(and yes, i am talking about the beautiful nude scenes with the stealth suits breaking off. it was beautifully done.)

please, be faithful to the original.

Re:sigh...

[nawcom]

see. i told you it's all about the bewbs -n- bullets.

Re:sigh...

[gstoddart]

as a GitS fan, I should be excited by this, but why do i have a feeling that Hollywood will water-down, bastardize and destroy everything that makes the original great?

Well established precedent?

Seriously, until recently any treatment of a comic-book or video game inspired subject was done completely badly by Hollywood. X-Men and some of the better ones seem to have done a good job by being true to the material. But, you still get some pretty badly done adaptations as the one studio decides that since another studio did well with a good comic adaptation, they should be able to get away with one too.

The problem is, sometimes the people adapting the material don't understand it, don't respect it, and don't know what to do with it. The result is something that the core fans don't like, that the people who have never heard of it can't figure out, and generally turns out to be a crappy movie.

I have no confidence whatsoever that Dreamworks can capture the feel and mood of Ghost in the Shell. I think you'll end up with some POS film adaptation which will be overly clunky and gimmicky, and it won't be able to tell a story. Some things are best left in anime since you have so much more freedom with the medium.

This all comes down to who does it -- get Bryan Singer or someone who has been able to deal with some of the Marvel stuff well, and you have a chance. Get Uwe Boll, and we're all screwed. :-P

Cheers

Re:sigh...

[gstoddart]

Actually, looking more closely at TFA ...

Avi Arad is at the forefront of comicbook-based material, having produced the three "Spider-Man" films, the three "X-Men" movies, the two "Fantastic Four" picss and the upcoming "Iron Man" and "The Incredible Hulk."

Those are the ones which seem to have actually been able to understand the material and do it well.

There could actually be some hope for this if they get a production team who is capable of being true to the material and writing a good story.

Cheers

Re:sigh...

[Sciros]

Most of those are rubbish, though. If you want someone who's enthusiastic about the character and not just capitalizing on the "superhero craze" (Rise of the Silver Surfer? good grief that was horrid, to say nothing of X3 or Spiderman 3), you need to go with someone else. Nolan did a decent job with Batman Begins, Singer did a good one with the first 2 X-Men (but not Superman Returns), but neither can work alone. Singer's been saved by fantastic editing in the past (Usual Suspects I give credit almost entirely to the editor; Singer had no clue what he was even making if you watch interviews and commentary), so I don't trust him on his own but if he has the right people around him he can make something really good.

Whoever directed the new Iron Man movie (I'm too lazy to check right now) seems to have potential, although until I see the movie I can't say for sure.

As for who I would personally want to adapt anime I like (GitS NOT being one of them; I find Shirou's work overrated and generally everything Production I.G. does to be trash), I'd have to pick Edward Zwick or possibly Christophe Gans. Zwick in particular seems to know what he's doing in all aspects of film-making.

Re:sigh...

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, the original Ghost in the Shell also fails at telling a story. And Akira, and Final Fantasy, and Mononoke, and Evangelion. I found there's something intrinsic in Japanese narrative that makes it sucking at even basic storytelling. Of course, they disguise it as "my work has a more profound meaning that you have to dig and understand for yourself", which is basically admiting that nobody has a clue about what's going on in the movie.

But, hey! the trick works, and there are hundreds of teenagers with nothing better to do that coming up with an explanation for all the contradictions and half-baked plots that the producers have put in there.

Re:sigh...

[gstoddart]

Well, the original Ghost in the Shell also fails at telling a story. And Akira, and Final Fantasy, and Mononoke, and Evangelion. I found there's something intrinsic in Japanese narrative that makes it sucking at even basic storytelling. Of course, they disguise it as "my work has a more profound meaning that you have to dig and understand for yourself", which is basically admiting that nobody has a clue about what's going on in the movie.

Well, that's your opinion, and you're entitled to it.

I find that those stories are open ended enough that you can bring your own interpretation to it. Simple, closed-ended allegory in which everything is wrapped up for you all nicely in a package is lame. And, is usually what we get in Western cinema. One of the things I like about the story lines in Anime is there is more room for ambiguity and shades of gray. They're not going to spoon feed you what it right or wrong, and they're not going to tie off all of the threads for you.

Just because you don't like or appreciate a little more open ended thing which is subject to some interpretation doesn't mean it's neither a good literary device nor interesting to some of us. It actually involves thinking about it, and coming up with your own interpretations.

The parts you don't like are the parts that are appealing to some of us.

But, hey! the trick works, and there are hundreds of teenagers with nothing better to do that coming up with an explanation for all the contradictions and half-baked plots that the producers have put in there.

And there are an equal number of people who can say how lame something is that they don't get -- and assume that if they don't get it it has no merit. In the end, if you don't like Anime, don't watch it. You can keep the Tom Cruise films or anything with Will Farrell in it -- I'll go for something a little more though provoking. :-P

Cheers

Re:sigh...

[Anonymous Coward]

Why can i only think of the phrase stupid gits whenever i see people make an acronym out of anything for no apparent reason? This is especially relavent to this topic.

Re:sigh...

[WhoBeDaPlaya]

For that matter, they had better bring Yoko Kanno aboard to do the score.

Re:sigh...

[MsGeek]

Much as I like Kanno Yoko's scores, and hope that eventually she gets to do movie music in the US, GITS and GITS2: Innocence were scored by Kawai Kenji, who did brilliant and highly unusual scores for the two movies. I think Kanno Yoko may have scored the two SAC series.

Oh yeah...casting horror thoughts:
Batou: Arnold Schwarzenegger (he'll be out of a job in 2010)
Maj. Kusanagi: Lucy Liu
Togusa: Keanu Reeves

And if Spielberg is directing, be prepared for basset hound cute overload. He will take the basset hound appearances and make them even more obvious and more obnoxious.

Re:sigh...

[Satanboy]

If you're sick of Uwe Boll, sign the petition!

http://www.petitiononline.com/RRH53888/petition.html

He has stated he will quit making films if there are a million signatures.

http://kotaku.com/376625/make-uwe-boll-disappear-yeah-riiiiight

Of course, he'd probably move on to television or something, but you never know!

Re:sigh...

[gstoddart]

If you're sick of Uwe Boll, sign the petition!

The only way I need to express my dissatisfaction with Mr. Boll is to simply not see his movies.

To loosely paraphrase a well known quote, I may hate his movies, but I defend his right to make them and for people to watch them.

Signing a petition to ask him to stop doing it just seems rather pointless to me. I'll vote with my wallet, thank you.

Cheers

Re:sigh...

[CodeBuster]

but why do i have a feeling that Hollywood will water-down, bastardize and destroy everything that makes the original great? Because that is exactly what they will do. There are certain elements of the GitS anime treatments and especially the mangas that are just not socially acceptable to most Americans. I am with you on this one in that I would prefer that the series be transmitted intact and unaltered to audiences which are probably not familiar with animes or the mangas, but Dreamworks is a business after all and rather than provoke the religious right with scenes of nudity and orgies (in the manga and in some of the GitSAC 2nd GiG episodes) that appeal to the tastes of the target audience in Japan they will almost certainly censor certain scenes and concepts entirely or alter the dialog in others. They will also dumb down the plots because, lets be honest, the depth and complexity of the interwoven agendas in GitS would be lost on most American audiences (i.e. less talk and more action please). A faithful rendition would be nice, but it is, IMHO, too much to hope for out of Dreamworks.

Re:sigh...

[Anonymous Coward]

POS? Plain Old Shit?

Re:sigh...

[Anonymous Coward]

I think they'd have to be. If not they know they'd be decended upon by many fans carrying the Standard Issue Big Gun

Re:sigh...

[Krater76]

Whoever directed the new Iron Man movie (I'm too lazy to check right now) seems to have potential, although until I see the movie I can't say for sure.
I just looked it up and the director is Jon Favreau. He's been in the business for a long time and knows how to tell a story although he has never tackled a comic book movie.

Most people would probably remember him as Mikey, the broken-hearted loser in 'Swingers' (directed by Doug Liman), the pot-head pseudo-frat boy Gutter in 'PCU' , or the looking-for-love college guy in 'Rudy'. All meaty roles with Swingers probably being his pinnacle. Everything I've seen him act in he's tip-top, even as Matt Murdock's friend in the crapacular 'Daredevil'.

This won't be his first movie he's directed. He's taken the right path by working his way up the directing ladder. He has directed some of his own stuff, 'Made', and then moved onto a holiday comedy with 'Elf'. After that he went on to do the unexpectedly good sci-fi family movie 'Zathura'. It's going to be interesting to see how he does with Ironman.

I have faith in Favreau, I think with the strong acting of Downey Jr this will be almost a guaranteed hit.

Re:sigh...

[orclevegam]

Actually he retracted that offer. The guy is a raving nut job who shouldn't be allowed within 10 miles of any film set.

Re:sigh...

[orclevegam]

The only way I need to express my dissatisfaction with Mr. Boll is to simply not see his movies. To loosely paraphrase a well known quote, I may hate his movies, but I defend his right to make them and for people to watch them. Signing a petition to ask him to stop doing it just seems rather pointless to me. I'll vote with my wallet, thank you. Cheers

Unfortunately you should still sign the petition so that the studios don't get the wrong idea. If you simply boycott his movies the studios may interpret it that the properties the movies are based on aren't popular or appealing, not as you intended that you think Uwe Boll does shit work and ruins everything he touches. It would really be best for everyone is Mr. Boll was removed from the movie business because it would mean someone who might actually stand a chance of doing a good movie might get their hands on the various series. Maybe Mr. Boll could try his hand at something original, and when those start selling we might trust him with something established.

Re:sigh...

[orclevegam]

... and rather than provoke the religious right with scenes of nudity and orgies (in the manga and in some of the GitSAC 2nd GiG episodes) that appeal to the tastes of the target audience in Japan they will almost certainly censor certain scenes and concepts entirely or alter the dialog in others. They will also dumb down the plots because, lets be honest, the depth and complexity of the interwoven agendas in GitS would be lost on most American audiences (i.e. less talk and more action please). If you get certain copies of the original manga that's published in the USA the orgies have all been removed (as well as some drug references). Those pages are simply omitted from the manga. I was rather pissed when I found out, not because I really miss those pages (more like cut scenes really, didn't add much to the story), but because of the fact that it was censored without warning, and no choice was even offered to purchase the uncensored version (well, if you look around I'm sure it can be found, but the censored one should still be labeled). I'm really getting sick of the religious right, the politically correct, and the pro nanny-state factions all trying to decide what's best for us all.

Re:sigh...

[CodeBuster]

If you get certain copies of the original manga that's published in the USA the orgies have all been removed (as well as some drug references). The drug references were removed because of the ongoing "War on Drugs" (has anyone else noticed that whenever we have a war on anything it is a colossal failure?) and the continued and active efforts of vested interests within the United States government (mainly interested in preserving their jobs, but at least some of them are true believers who believe their own propoganda) to tar and feather anyone who wants to have an honest debate on drug policy or presents any view other than "zero tolerance" as a "drug legalizer" who wants to sell hard drugs to children. The Constitution goes into the trash bin whenever drugs, children, or terrorists are involved as far as these uncompromising fools are concerned. They are willfully giving up freedoms which generations of people shed blood to obtain for the mere pretense of a false sense of security. It is enough to make one despair for the future of what has been called the "American Experiment" in rational self-governance.

Re:sigh...

[Carfiend]

Had to make an account and no more lurking to add to this but here it comes... NNNEEEEERRRDDDDD RRRRRAAAAAAGGGGEEEEEE Please for the love of all things can you Hollywood numpties stop buying my childhood and repackaging it to me in a shiny CGI fest devoid of anything that made the original any good. Take a freaking chance and maybe one of those young writers who came to you with an idea thats a bit of a risk might just have something great. This is another example of why Cinema attendance is down, combined with almost insultingly high prices to go see the latest bastardised snorefest. Yo Mr Movie Exec Guy, if your going to rape my memories at least buy my brain dinner first, jackasses.

Re:sigh...

[jwdb]

I thought it was only the mangas that were censored (the original, and man-machine interface), but I don't remember any scene like that. Which scene are you referring to?

Jw

Re:sigh...

[Cal Paterson]

To loosely paraphrase a well known quote, I may hate his movies, but I defend his right to make them and for people to watch them.

There's a number of issues there.

No one notable ever said that. Voltaire famously did not say it; it has supposedly come about as a summary of his work.
This is typically suppose to involve speech and not _actual_ speech (yelling loudly on a crowded bus is annoying) but metaphorical speech; saying what you want (that Uwe Boll is a terrible filmmaker). It's not supposed to mean "I dislike BloodRayne (2006) but I defend to the death Uwe Boll's ability to spend $25 million to make a film that makes only $1.5 million on its opening weekend!"!
You're misinterpretting the context. The quote is meant to refer to the legal level of "ability". It does not make reference to moral values; I'm sure Voltaire would have opposed those who denied the holocaust and would rather they didn't speak, but he did not favour banning them by law. The point is that prohibitions by law (with certain exclusions) are a mistake. The quote is supposed to mean "When you dislike something, dislike it, but don't ban it". It's not supposed to be a moral carte blanche that allows a director to get away with making a shit film.

Re:sigh...

[gstoddart]

Ummmm ... seriously? Get over it dude.

Being told that I should be going to great lengths to sign a petition over whether or not Uwe Boll makes any more films is silly.

Being told about the moral implications of directors making bad movies and metaphors? Well, that bordering on absurd.

Yes, I abused the quote. Really, who &*^%^ cares? I am "free" to abuse well known and ill-attributed quotes until the "cows come home to roost" -- see, did it again. :-P Voltaire would defend my right to do that too.

Cheers

Re:sigh...

[Cal Paterson]

Wow, I really fucked this post up. I'm guessing a "
" came out as a "". This whole thing isn't all meant to be in bold. I'll have to start using the preview.

Re:sigh...

[Cal Paterson]

:p Well, I don't mean to make any kind of serious point about Boll, but the logical fallacy of "You can't deny me my right to an opinion" (and other variants) is actually very annoying.

Re:sigh...

[gstoddart]

Unfortunately you should still sign the petition so that the studios don't get the wrong idea. If you simply boycott his movies the studios may interpret it that the properties the movies are based on aren't popular or appealing, not as you intended that you think Uwe Boll does shit work and ruins everything he touches.

Wow. Why have you people taken the issue of a guy who makes bad films and turned it into some sort of moral crusade? Is it because he started with some titles you had a vested interest in and you feel he has somehow defiled your world? Or do you hate his films so bad as to have lost all reason?

Seriously, my only obligation is to myself and not wanting to watch the stuff he makes. If the studios want to entrust his with millions of dollars, WTF do I care?

I think Will Farrel makes crap too, but I'm not interested in trying to drum him out of the business. I just don't watch his movies. I just think this whole petition thing is blazingly stupid.

Cheers

Re:sigh...

[orclevegam]

It is more or less because people have a vested interest in the titles he makes. I don't care much for instance for Adam Sandler, but I don't make a big deal out of it because he mostly does his own work, so if the movie bombs, no harm comes of it. Uwe on the other hand takes existing properties, ones that people genuinely enjoy, and would like to continue to see good releases of, and turns them into utter crap-fests. All things being equal, that shouldn't matter, but once a series starts going down hill, or otherwise develops a bad reputation it becomes increasingly hard to convince people to produce new versions, or to go see the ones that are produced. Look for instance at the last hulk movie, which was crap by most peoples standards. Because of that one crap movie, I know several people that have said they probably won't go see the new Hulk movie that's being made. Now, to fans of the Hulk, this is a problem, as presumably they want more Hulk movies to be made, but because the first one sucked so bad, it's an uphill battle to get new ones made and released. Even if the next one is great, it's still going to be hard to get further ones produced.

That's why people hate Uwe, he ruins it not only for the crap movies he makes, but he also tarnishes any other potential movies from the same properties.

Re:sigh...

[orclevegam]

Unfortunately I can find no fault with your logic, as I to rather despair at the direction America is heading. The only thing that gives me some measure of hope is that the situation in America is still better than most parts of the world, give or take. The problem though isn't the governmental system, rather it's entirely unhealthy levels of media control by select organizations, certain key regulations that encourage mega-corp monopolies, and an increasing degradation of the separation between church and state. I almost wish it were possible to hide the identities of candidates for political offices and only vote on their agendas as that would go a long way towards eliminating extraneous factors like race, religion, and sex.

Re:sigh...

[theheadlessrabbit]

has anyone else noticed that whenever we have a war on anything it is a colossal failure Your 'War on Germans' (parts 1 and 2) were both quite successful.

Your 'War in Korea' worked out quite well for half the country...

but then Nam happened, and, well...its been down hill since then.

but the important thing is that they haven't ALL been collossal failures, You've just had a 60 year losing streek.

I'm sure things will turn around when you eventually declare war on Canada.

dreamworks?! no!

[Anonymous Coward]

I for one fine this highly distressing and upsetting.

also in worse news angelina is tipped to be the major.

Dub GiTS2: Innocence

[MBCook]

How about releasing a version of GiTS2: Innocence that's dubbed into English first for those of us who want to be able to look at the art and not have to read all the subtitles?

Re:Dub GiTS2: Innocence

[rob1980]

look at the art

Translated: stare at animated tits while listening to poor low-budget voice acting.

Re:Dub GiTS2: Innocence

[the_fat_kid]

at the risk of being branded an ignorant American:

Yes, Please.
I've watched the subtitled version plenty. I even took my sons to see it in the theatre. I sure would like to watch it with my eyes and let my ears do some work too.

Re:Dub GiTS2: Innocence

[Anonymous Coward]

How about releasing a version of GiTS2: Innocence that's dubbed into English first for those of us who want to be able to look at the art and not have to read all the subtitles?

There is an English dub already out, its done by some of the cast from stand alone complex so the voice acting is reasonable. You just need to have a look round to find it.

Re:Dub GiTS2: Innocence

[Kamineko]

They should so SO SO do that. Everybody would be voiced by Eric Stuart (and sound like Brock from Pokémon), Dan Green (and sound like Yami from Yu-Gi-Oh!) or Cam Clarke (and sound like Leonardo from TMHT). AWESOME!

Re:Dub GiTS2: Innocence

[mdarksbane]

Happily, when they can actually release a dub with quality voice actors - as in, sometime around never.

Voice acting for big releases in Japan pays well and is a huge business - think of the star quality you get in a Disney movie.

Dubs of anime films are usually done by studios specializing in bringing as many anime films over as possible as cheap as possible, and use voice acting roughly on par with cheap children's programs.

It's like watching Star Wars with Sir Alec Guinness's award winning voice replaced by some guy just out of community college theatre, who is also doing the voice of Leia using a bad falsetto.

Combine that with the consistent problem of bad obnoxious translations ("Believe it!") and the core, unavoidable issue that different languages have entirely different pacings to them (ie, trying to fit the whole english translation of a sentence into the same amount of time as the japanese sounds ridiculously forced and unnatural) and you can see why quite a few people would really prefer subtitles. With a little practice you can read it fast enough to go watch the screen at the same time. I've noticed it's only people who have only watched one or two subbed movies in their life who seem to have problems keeping up with it -- but most of them pick it up fairly well by the end of a series.

Re:Dub GiTS2: Innocence

[MBCook]

I understand. But the Ghost in the Shell movie (the first) was dubbed, and the two series (Stand Alone Complex 1 & 2) were also dubbed, all with the same actors (those who seem to be responsible for half the Anime that hits the US). It's not like they don't have decent actors.

Re:Dub GiTS2: Innocence

[Anonymous Coward]

Learn Japanese

Re:Dub GiTS2: Innocence

[Anonymous Coward]

Read faster?

Re:Dub GiTS2: Innocence

[Anonymous Coward]

GITS 2 was dubbed by the SAC voice actors and was released by Manga UK

Ref: http://www.dvdactive.com/news/releases/ghost-in-the-shell-2-innocence.html

Re:Dub GiTS2: Innocence

[DinDaddy]

Innocence really doesn't have much in the way of naked breasts to stare at. Especially in the parts most easily appreciated as art. That said, I don't have any trouble reading the subs and watching at the same time. Not to mention, the director has pretty specifically ruled out a dubbed version according to what I've read.

Re:Dub GiTS2: Innocence

[mdarksbane]

Having watched the first GitS both with an without subtitles, I would argue that yes, they don't have decent actors. Not trying to be offensive to the people working hard to bring anime to the US, but it just isn't as good.

GitS isn't as bad as many have been, but it's nowhere near the quality of the original cast.

And then of course there are those of us who just enjoy seeing a work in its original form - like seeing the original broadway cast of a play.

Re:Dub GiTS2: Innocence

[meringuoid]

Combine that with the consistent problem of bad obnoxious translations ("Believe it!")

Let's be fair to them on this one... how would you translate the '-tebayo' suffix? It's an obnoxious mutilation of Japanese which Naruto uses for emphasis - that whatever his verb was, he totally means it and is going to be Hokage some day because of it. The translation's not so bad. It's just that Naruto really is that annoying.

Re:Dub GiTS2: Innocence

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't see the point of dubbing GitS2.

While you then might be able to listen to the dialogue rather than read it, it will be just as impossible to understand what is going on. =p

Re:Dub GiTS2: Innocence

[gstoddart]

Translated: stare at animated tits while listening to poor low-budget voice acting.

Nah, the voice acting has gotten better over the years.

The tits are just an added bonus. :-P

Cheers

Re:Dub GiTS2: Innocence

[OK PC]

There already is a dubbed version, at least in the UK, you can check out the cast here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghost_in_the_Shell_2:_Innocence#English_cast It's basically the SAC voice cast.

Re:Dub GiTS2: Innocence

[Anonymous Coward]

Holy weeaboo, Batman!

Voice acting work for anime is Japan does NOT pay well. If you think you are misinformed horribly. Most voice actress moonlight in the erogame industry under different names simply because the pay there is at least marginal.

The main problem with obnoxious translation, as you call it, is obnoxious source material. "Believe it" is a perfectly acceptable translation for dattebayo. However completely eliminating any and all references and translations to dattebayo is the best call. It is annoying in japanese and simply doesn't work in english.

Not to mention your inherent elitism in people wishing to want dubs. You're stance that dubs are bad is laughable. But that's why you're a weeaboo, huh?

Re:Dub GiTS2: Innocence

[djscribl]

I agree with you completely. (and yes, i forgot to login when i posted before) however, for quite awhile it never looked like a dubbed version was going to come out, and while the voice acting may not be as good for the dub as the original GitS, it is at least there so that you can appreciate the artwork ESPECIALLY since GitS2 has significantly more speaking than the original IMHO

Re:Dub GiTS2: Innocence

[The Queen]

Indeed, my bf's 8 year old complained about the idea of subtitles too, until we sat her down to watch "Howl's Moving Castle" and she did just fine.

Too much is lost in the dubbing process. Not worth watching, IMO.

Re:Dub GiTS2: Innocence

[SirLurksAlot]

I don't understand the need to have everything dubbed. Several years back I used to work at Blockbuster, and whenever a foreign film came out I would consistently have customers complaining to me that the film wasn't in English, and how dare they be expected to have *gasp* read subtitles. Honestly, it's not that hard to read the text and watch the action at the same time!

Dubbing usually strips out any kind of emotional emphasis (or mutilates it at the very least), and you lose nuances in the language that would otherwise be apparent. I remember watching Pan's Labyrinth (El laberinto del fauno) and thinking how horribly it could've been butchered if it were dubbed in English. The director (Guillermo del Toro) specifically chose the actor for Pan because of his voice, so in essence watching it dubbed means you really are missing out on "the art."

Finally, I can't help but think that demanding that films be dubbed shows a lack of openess to other cultures. Not everything has to be in (Insert native language here). There is a wide world out there, and I think it would do everyone good to expand their horizons beyond their own backyard.

Re:Dub GiTS2: Innocence

[Trentus]

Cowboy Bebop anyone? It's one of the few english dubbed anime I can bear to watch. I nearly couldn't believe it. The voices actually suited the characters, and they only sounded dopey when the mood called for it (mostly). It also has an awesome soundtrack.

Re:Dub GiTS2: Innocence

[Anonymous Coward]

hm try there is allready a subbed version out and has been since atleast 2006 along with its not that hard to read and watch at the same time

Re:Dub GiTS2: Innocence

[Anonymous Coward]

There is an English dubbed version, done by the same voice artists as Stand Alone Complex. It's excellent -- and not available as a Region 1 (U.S.) DVD. My copy is a Region 2 (U.K. I think).

Richard Epcar ("Batou" in SAC and Innocence) talked about this at the AnimeUSA 2007 convention. He said that Dreamworks showed no interest in releasing the dubbed Innocence as a Region 1.

This makes me doubt Dreamworks' commitment to the proposed new movie.

Re:Dub GiTS2: Innocence

[Anonymous Coward]

RE English dub of GiTS2: Innocence: "Manga Entertainment, which released the first movie and collaborated with Bandai Entertainment to release the TV series, released the movie with an English dub featuring the same cast as used in Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex in the UK on February 27, 2006."http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghost_in_the_Shell_2:_Innocence#DVD_controversy

Re:Dub GiTS2: Innocence

[MorePower]

Honestly, it's not that hard to read the text and watch the action at the same time!

Yes, it is frakin' hard. I can only read at the same rate that I could listen to spoken words, because I have to translate the written words into spoken words and 'listen' to them in my head. So there's a hard limit on how fast one can read. Then, if the original language phase took less time to say than the English equivalent, there may not even be enough time to read it (I frequently have problems with this in subbed anime, the text flashes on the screen and goes away to be replaced by the next dialog far faster than I could possibly read that sentence out). And of course, if my eyes are focused on the text, they can't possibly be focused anywhere else on screen.

So watching subbed films is often an exercise of hitting the pause and rewind button a lot, so you can get all the info by watching each scene 2-3 times. I agree that dubs often suck, but the answer is to have better dubs done.

Re:Dub GiTS2: Innocence

[Knara]

Translated: stare at animated tits while listening to poor low-budget voice acting.

Nah, the voice acting has gotten better over the years. The tits are just an added bonus. :-P Cheers

Not really, no. It went from absolutely atrocious to simply bad.

Innocence is ridiculously boring, anyway. And this is from someone who loves GitS in its other incarnations. Just Oshii being weird for the sake of being weird.

Re:Dub GiTS2: Innocence

[Anonymous Coward]

Apparently a UK manga company is going to do a dub version with the original Stand Alone Complex cast

Re:Dub GiTS2: Innocence

[Anonymous Coward]

It can be done. I've always been of the mind subs > dubs but I think the dubbing of Princess Mononoke to be exceptionally good.

Re:Dub GiTS2: Innocence

[SirLurksAlot]

Ok, I realize that you're probably just trolling at this point, but what the hell.

Well, there's a lot one can say here, but it's important to remember that movies are (gasp) entertainment.

So basically what you're saying is that reading isn't entertainment?

I'm afraid the enlightened cosmopolitan movie watcher thing is rather laughable at times. It's a disease most prevalent in community college students and high school kids trying to shore up their self-esteem. The fact that a Blockbuster employee would stand behind a desk in one of those polyester polo shirts and be appalled at the plebeian tastes of patrons also hurts my head..or my funny bone, not sure which.

I don't really know where to start. First of all, believe it or not, yes there are people who actually care about the quality of the movies they're watching, and who are open to watching more than the latest gorefest. Secondly, as for you remark about my job at Blockbuster, it was just that, a job. Nothing about it defined me, just as nothing about my current job (as a software engineer) defines me. The fact that you decided to make it a point in your post says more about you than it does about me (especially so considering that you decided to post anonymously).

As someone who is genuinely multilingual and a trained linguist, I must also point out that for many of the world's languages, no, you wouldn't catch any significant nuances by hearing the original and reading the subtitles. European languages are easy; do you really think you'd be able to pick up subtle nuances in Turkish or Farsi that a good voice actor couldn't reproduce with proper direction. Are you even aware of how few universals there are with respect to suprasegmental features?

You're multilingual, good for you. I still call BS however. I speak/read/write Spanish and Japanese (though admittedly not fluently in either one), and I can say from personal experience that there is definitely a loss of nuance when dubbing is used. You're either very new to picking up languages, or you aren't nearly as good at them as you obviously think you are.

As for effectively reproducing these nuanced with properly directed voice actors, I agree that it's certainly possible, but it's also extremely rare. More often the studio is only interested in getting the filmed dubbed and out the door because foreign markets are typically after sales and the owners don't want to spend money on voice acting.

I can't help but think that the very act of watching foreign films demonstrates some openness to other cultures already. You think those vulgar masses fail to appreciate that a film is foreign because it's dubbed?

Sorry, but I disagree again. You wouldn't believe the number of people who pick up any random movie that has a cover that caught their eye only to find out after the fact that it was a foreign film. I'm not saying that this covers every case, but it still happens and probably more often than you think it does.

Re:Dub GiTS2: Innocence

[orclevegam]

Read faster? I usually don't have problems with subtitled movies, but every once in a while I do (usually from cheap bootlegs out of China). I've got a Chinese copy of the Nadesico movie (picked it up back before their was a english subtitled release available in the US or Japan) and some of the scenes just have so much going on it's ridiculous and really is impossible to keep up. In one scene in particular I had to play the movie in slow motion just to follow the dialogue because the geniuses doing the subbing put subtitles on literally everything. It was on the ships bridge, and not only did they have subtitles for about 5 different characters all on screen at the same time, but they also translated all the text on the dozen or so screens on the bridge. Not sure how they found room to actually show the scene with that wall of text in the way.

Re:Dub GiTS2: Innocence

[orclevegam]

I remember watching Pan's Labyrinth (El laberinto del fauno) and thinking how horribly it could've been butchered if it were dubbed in English. The director (Guillermo del Toro) specifically chose the actor for Pan because of his voice, so in essence watching it dubbed means you really are missing out on "the art." Fun fact, the guy who played Pan (Doug Jones, he also did Abe Sapien in Hellboy I and II) didn't speak any Spanish before doing that movie. On the DVD for Pan's Labyrinth there's a cool interview with him where he talks about how panicked he was at having to do the movie in Spanish, but how everyone helped him along and how it turned out really well.

Re:Dub GiTS2: Innocence

[morari]

Innocence didn't even have subtitles, it had English close captioning. Now that is annoying.

"Helicopter sounds"

"So and So speaking"

Yeah. :(

Re:Dub GiTS2: Innocence

[Anonymous Coward]

lol u suck

learn 2 read

Re:Dub GiTS2: Innocence

[ashitaka]

I just came in to support your statements and add to the call the Mr. Linguist is full of it. I don't think he has ever really *listened* to a movie just watched the action. He may know some technical things about languages but knows little about the emotions conveyed verbally in a film especially in an animated one. To get a good example of this you need to see a Disney animation dubbed into Japanese. It's stunning how well Japanese voice actors are able to convey the correct emotion that sounds completely natural. What is more impressive is they can do it with live action features as well. I followed a Korean drama (Tae Jang Geum) dubbed in Japanese and it was as if the production was originally done in Japanese. Later I happened across the original on the local Korean channel and the original Korean acting was horribly amateurish. The Japanese dubbing had actually made the series more enjoyable to watch!

I have yet to see a simple example, live or animated of this being achieved in a foreign-to-English dubbing. The generic voice characteristics and bland emotional delivery show that North American voice acting is a long way from being good.

Re:Dub GiTS2: Innocence

[enoz]

Don't forget Spike Spencer! He even has a super awesome happy website!!!oneone1

Re:Dub GiTS2: Innocence

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh really? The blu-ray copy I got from the intertubes had great subs >_>

Re:Dub GiTS2: Innocence

[Rhapsody Scarlet]

With a little practice you can read it fast enough to go watch the screen at the same time.

I'm a pretty fast reader, and I've managed to keep up with every subbed anime I've watched, bar one: Lucky Star. That shit moves so fast that I'm struggling to keep up with it. I'd normally watch three or four a day, but Lucky Star manages to wear me out after one because of this. Gives me a reason to buy the dubbed version I suppose...

Re:Dub GiTS2: Innocence

[Kamineko]

YEAH!

I have to admit I've never seen anything with him in, but I have played Trauma Center: Under the Knife!

"Ooohhhkay, let's start." "Damn this is bad!" "What you are you DOING?" "Huh, not half bad."

Go, Victor! Let's show that bastard Pempti who's boss!

Re:Dub GiTS2: Innocence

[Metorical]

After you've watched many subtitled series you'll never go back provided the translation is good. The un-dubbed voices add to the effect of the speech which is often lost in dubs as the parent points out. I actually watched an entire subtitled film once and 5 minutes after the end couldn't remember if it was subtitled or in English.

Re:Dub GiTS2: Innocence

[mdarksbane]

So, even ceding you this point - because I'm going off of what I have heard, but google didn't find proof either way yet - why do most people in other countries, when watching American movies, watch a subtitled version?

There's something to be said for the original performance.

You think all these elitists really prefer to be reading a translation instead of watching the artwork? I just still haven't seen a dub that was as good as the original voice work. And it's not just the foreign aspect disguising the inflection - my friends with significantly more experience living in Japan than I do agree completely. So if it's "elitist" to say that you shouldn't watch an quantifiably inferior version of a show just so that you don't have to read, all right, I'm elitist.

Re:Dub GiTS2: Innocence

[PMBjornerud]

Happily, when they can actually release a dub with quality voice actors - as in, sometime around never. Coming from a country that generally doesn't dub anything we import, I'm dumbfounded.

Keep the original voices and use subtitles. Your point about differences in language are right on - sometimes a one-word utterance in Japanese require a long English phrase to come across correctly, and sometimes it is the opposite. Not to mention that the original actors are chosen by the director because their voices match the overall vision for the movie. You can't just replace that.

I'm not an English speaker, but with years of practice the I read subtitles pretty much instatly, then follow the dialoge while comparing it with the translation.

Heck, subtitles on anime would do nothing but learning kids to read and spell correctly ;)

What Is Left To Cover?

[EXTomar]

Sure Ghost in the Shell is quality hard edge cyberpunk style sci-fi but as far as I can tell there is nothing left in the story to tell. This probably means that anything Dreamworks makes will be a rehash of previous material which isn't automatically bad but not something some will automatically look forward too.

I predict some cyber-gang up to cyber-shenanigans vs Public Security Section 9 with a ethical/philosophical twist. It can work but they better not slack on the quality or they'll risk alienating the mainstream and the hard core fan base.

Re:What Is Left To Cover?

[Smidge204]

The TV series takes place in a different universe from the movies, and had a lot more going for it IMHO. The slightly more episodic storytelling gives a new life to it. (Plus everything was well-lit so you could actually see what was going on.)

What I'm trying to say is the story is only dead-ended if they try to stick with the movie setting. They could do something new with the characters without killing the whole thing.
=Smidge=

Re:What Is Left To Cover?

[xhrit]

I predict some middle eastern terrorists trying to get wmd to iran vs a US version ov Public Security Section 9 with a heavy action / maximum bodycount twist.

It will never work without alienating the hard core fan base, but the mainstreamers will love it because it has boobs and guns and the US always wins.

Good idea? Spielberg???

[h4rm0ny]

Good idea? The person responsible for the suger-fest that was A.I.? Watch out for the new Ghost In The Shell version where aliens give her a human body at the end and the bullets never actually hit anyone.

Re:Good idea? Spielberg???

[Darundal]

Yeah, although I disagree with your use of AI as an example (sorry, liked it, although the less enjoyable bits were supposedly the ones written by Kubrick) I see no way that Spielberg will keep the originals ending, and the long conversations probably won't be reworked to occur in bits and pieces throughout the movie (or their points preserved through any other means) but probably tossed altogether. I foresee something more along the lines of T3 coming out of this.

Re:Good idea? Spielberg???

[DaveV1.0]

I think the OP means that a live action version is a good idea, not necessarily a Spielberg version.

Re:Good idea? Spielberg???

[sammy baby]

I don't know if I would have called AI a sugar-fest. The best description I've heard of it was that it had all the warm characterization of a Stanley Kubrick film, coupled with the hard-nosed realism of a Spielberg flick.

Re:Good idea? Spielberg???

[Anonymous Coward]

And instead of guns they'll all be running around with walkie-talkies.

Re:Good idea? Spielberg???

[Lord Apathy]

How about we just say that it sucked and leave it at that?

Re:Good idea? Spielberg???

[pa-ching]

They weren't aliens; they were futuristic mecha, and Kubrick was responsible for that part anyway. The ending isn't as straight-forward as it first seems.

Re:Good idea? Spielberg???

[William-Ely]

I wonder if they will remove references to the "American Empire" and other things that might cause a fuss. Also, Saito will have to get used to carrying around a huge walkie-talkie.

Re:Good idea? Spielberg???

[Anonymous Coward]

You clearly did not understand the end of A.I., despite being beaten over the head with foreshadowing for the entire movie. "In the end, there will be only us!" and all that.

They were robots, not aliens. When they saw that David could not grow and would never stop looking for a woman who had died a thousand years before, they euthanized him. This is alluded to throughout the entire film.

Re:Good idea? Spielberg???

[h4rm0ny]

Okay, I'm curious. By that point in the film I was wondering why the Hell I had ever rented the DVD in the first place. What might I have missed about the ending?

Re:Good idea? Spielberg???

[pa-ching]

It's fairly up to interpretation, as other posters in this thread will likely share their views, but here's an old post I wrote on the subject: http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=240961&cid=19641209

Re:Good idea? Spielberg???

[enoz]

If you missed the ending you might have the misconception that it was a good film.

Another GitS?

[Anonymous Coward]

..because three movies and two television seasons weren't enough.

Why why why?

[bpgslashdotaccount]

As a piece of art the anime can definitely stand alone.

Re:Anime.. A genre whose time has *come*??

[gomiam]

Anime is nothing more than a legal outlet for the pent up frustrations of pedophiles.

Which is not to say that there isn't good anime out there.

Make up your mind: it's either good, bad or just another medium out there, no more prone (nor less) to being misused than any other comic (or any kind of art, actually). For some definition of misused, that is.

Re:Anime.. A genre whose time has *come*??

[Tejin]

Anime.. a genre? What are you talking about? Anime is a medium like live action and cg. The genre Spielberg is talking about would be cyberpunk. All your bizarre opinions about the medium aside, your post is based on a flawed premise. Ghost in the Shell is closer to Blade Runner than it is to Sailor Moon.

Oh lawd

[TSRX]

Why do I get the feeling that Tom Cruise is somehow gonna get cast in the movie?

Spielberg, eh?

[jockeys]

Great, now she's gonna be running around fighting baddies with... a RADIO. And they will be shooting back at her... with RADIOS.

Re:Spielberg, eh?

[Sciros]

You're confusing Spielberg with Lucas.

Re:Spielberg, eh?

[jockeys]

I was making a reference to this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_hat

Re:Spielberg, eh?

[Anonymous Coward]

You do realize that that makes a reference to Speilberg editing out the guns that FBI has in E.T. and making them into walkie talkies when he re-released E.T. for DVD, right?

Here's hoping....

[Anonymous Coward]

Here's hoping they get Jessica Alba to play the part of the Major. I can't wait to see a full body shot of her in her stealth suit...

Re:Here's hoping....

[BlackSnake112]

Depends on what she does after her baby. Here's to hoping Jessica Alba bounces back to the point that no one can tell she ever had a baby.

A live action Ghost in the shell? So much more is possible with anime. One also gets the side bonus of it actually being cheaper to make. No too much insurance for voice acting only. No need to pay a city to have as the setting for the show.

Wary

[bxwatso]

What makes GITS my favorite anime is the extremely well crafted plot with a lot of analysis for today's reality.

I don't want a bigger budget for smoother animation because that ususally leads to suits cutting up the message and focus groups dumbing down the plot.

There is nothing good that can come from Hollywood taking over this classic.

Re:Wary

[Anonymous Coward]

Agreed, its the downfall of a great anime!

Majority of their works are shallow and mediocre relying heavily on CG visual artists/programmers/animators to 'wow' the audience while the rest falls flat down as a fastfood movie with little to no thinking involved at all to understand and apreciate the contradictions and fights of high tech cyborg(and other) technology while always focusing on the deep impact on all levels of human society raising from phylosophical conflicts down to(related with) political, enterprise(buziness companies) and comon citizen crimes.

Seriously spielberg and others around him don't have the intelectual talent to pull out deep well thought and intrigued plots, they just grab a vulgar ordinary crime scene place a quick shallow emotion short scene, and jump back on 'persuit and shoot down the bad guy with explosions on the background' and the end! while ur thinking the waist of money you spent on the ticket (popcorn and beverage?).

Again?

[oahazmatt]

I'm not worried about what Dreamworks may do to GitS, and that's because last time I checked they had optioned the rights to Casshern, and haven't done a thing with that, either.

Oh God no....

[Anonymous Coward]

This is going to be a train wreck. Is nothing sacred? Cate Blanchett as Kusunagi and The Rock as batou in 5-4-3...

Re:Oh God no....

[BlackSnake112]

If she dresses like she did in the underworld movies it might work

Ugh. Dreamworks.

[Bloodwine]

Does this mean it'll be littered with pop and soft rock music?

One of the things I like about Pixar is the more traditional score approach they take instead of a "Best of" soundtrack approach of Dreamworks.

Re:Ugh. Dreamworks.

[Sciros]

But... Spielberg doesn't take the "best of" approach. He takes the "John Williams go write music for me" approach, which is as traditional as you can possibly get.

Donkey?

[UncHellMatt]

"I hope they add a talking donkey."

Sorry, but I believe Hillary will be on the campaign trail for at least a little while longer.

/me ducks

The major question on my mind...

[RyanFenton]

Who's going to play the Tachikoma?

I'm hoping the Original Actor, seen here having fun in Japan.

I don't know if this is one that Jim Carrey could pull off.

Ryan Fenton

Re:The major question on my mind...

[Kamineko]

Who's going to play the Tachikoma?

Ryan Fenton

I'm not exactly sure that would work. Don't let me discourage you; you should definitely audition.

Re:The major question on my mind...

[Trent Hawkins]

If we're lucky, the new voice actress will be the same that did GLaDOS.
if we're not lucky it will be Eddie Murphy

Re:The major question on my mind...

[Sepiraph]

They probably won't have the newer version of the Tachikoma in the movie, since the original GitS didn't have either. Although they may decide to include them anyway, which is not necessary a bad thing since they do portray a counterview of the A.I. as cold and emotionless. It all depends on whether they'll try to stick faithfully to the original script or write a new one.

The A.I. version of Tachikoma that everyone loves didn't show up until in SAC (not including the managa).

Re:The major question on my mind...

[Knara]

The Fuchikoma from the manga were sorta-kinda like the Tachikoma, but less hyper-inquisitive.

The pig-dude avatar AIs in Man-Machine Interface were much more like the Tachikoma in SAC, but, like you, I really doubt that they'll put the Tachikoma in a movie. Too bad, cuz they could market the crap out of those little guys/girls/whatevers.

Re:The major question on my mind...

[orclevegam]

There's also a sub-text that the AI's are essentially people as well and that they can't be controlled, only reasoned with like a normal person. If I recall correctly in 2nd Gig they retire the original Tachikoma because the brass felt they were too unpredictable (that is they had free will of a sort), and opted for dumber more controllable ones that ended up being rather useless compared to the originals. I was rather disappointed that the Tachikoma didn't make it into the original movie, although it was nice that they managed to get at least one of the tanks in at the end.

One of the nice things about the Tachikoma is that there's a lot of room to play around with the ideas of identity and consciousness there. All the Tachikoma share one identity, that diverges during the day, and re-syncs at night, so it's almost like they begin each morning as one person, and as the day goes by they become individuals. Not sure if it was ever done in the series, but it would be interesting for instance if one of the Tachikoma was cut off and unable to sync for a while, say a few months, and then to see how far his personality had diverged from the other Tachikoma, and further what kind of impacts it would have on the group personality when he was re-synced.

Re:The major question on my mind...

[ashitaka]

Looks like Tachikoma just stopped off at McDonalds on the way to Mt. Fuji.

I'm very familiar with that particular on-ramp to the Tomei Expressway. There's a good Denny's nearby as well. (In Japan, Denny's is a good place to eat)

Audience like me

[madsenj37]

They may not go after the anime audience, expecting them to watch weather or not it is good. If they do this right, many people will go see it. It has very deep and Matrix-like ideas (I believe Ghost came first). I am not a fan of anime, but I have seen the first Ghost In The Shell movie and enjoyed it. I watched it in a college film class on movie theater equipment. It all has to do with marketing it properly.

Re:Audience like me

[Pojut]

It has very deep and Matrix-like ideas (I believe Ghost came first).

Just an FYI for future reference, the manga was released between 1989-1991, and the trade made it's appearence in English in 1995. The first movie (which covers a small part of the storyline in the Manga, and is VERY different in both tone and style) came out in 1995.

The Matrix, if I'm not mistaken, came out in 1999.

Re:Audience like me

[yamiyasha]

It has very deep and Matrix-like ideas (I believe Ghost came first).

Just an FYI for future reference, the manga was released between 1989-1991, and the trade made it's appearence in English in 1995. The first movie (which covers a small part of the storyline in the Manga, and is VERY different in both tone and style) came out in 1995. The Matrix, if I'm not mistaken, came out in 1999. and if I remember right, Ghost in the Shell influenced The Matrix

Re:Audience like me

[Pojut]

Agreed. I seem to remember it being one of the Anime that they mentioned in interviews as inspiration. The Matrix did have a ton of anime-style shots and sequences in it, no doubt.

Re:Audience like me

[Destoo]

Influenced?
There are frame-by-frame analysis comparing both movies. And it's not just similar concepts. Sometimes, whole sequences are the same, with the same camera angle.

Re:Audience like me

[Pojut]

The shot of Morpheous jumping out to Neo in the Helicoptoer ----> Motoko Kusanagi jumping off the building in the beginning of the movie is the first one that comes to mind for me.

Re:Audience like me

[Pojut]

In keeping with the theme of the discussion, here you go:

http://www.mig81.com/matrixgits/

EXCELLENT comparison of The Matrix and the first Ghost in the Shell movie.

Re:Audience like me

[Anonymous Coward]

The Wakowski brothers have on more than one occasion admitted that GiTS was an influence on the Matrix.

Re:Audience like me

[Anonymous Coward]

not to mention that i'm not sure what the matrix like ideas are....i guess if you want to bastardize the ghost concept into the false world of the matrix that sorta counts.

But really ghost in the shell is about electronic souls, and the possibility of having a soul without a body. Matrix is simply about machines subjugating man with a false world (a la Descartes)

Re:Audience like me

[renrutal]

Matrix is the one which has GitS-like ideas, the Wachowski Brothers even acknowledged of it in an interview.

Re:Audience like me

[Pojut]

The ghost concept could be extended to the agents. They are obviously self-aware, and other than lacking a physical body they have ever bit of the same as the Major.

Actually, you could say that Agents in The Matrix could be compared to The Puppet Master in Ghost in the Shell...

Re:Audience like me

[madsenj37]

As I stated before, GINTS came first. To a non-anime fan, that does not matter much, they probably will see the Matrix first. My point was simply that if done and marketed correctly, people would see this movie as Matrix like, which was a smash hit.

Re:Audience like me

[ashitaka]

...very deep and Matrix like.

From the Wikipedia entry for GITs:

Impact and influence

The Wachowski brothers, makers of the Matrix trilogy, acknowledged the influence of Ghost in the Shell in an interview.[2] Producer Joel Silver also admitted in an interview on the Animatrix DVD that he was shown the Ghost in the Shell movie during a pitch from the Wachowski brothers to indicate the style and look of the film they wanted for The Matrix.

Re:Seen it (Matrix)

[Anonymous Coward]

> "3D Live Action" version of the popular anime.

As opposed to what? the matrix?

Re:Anime.. A genre whose time has *come*??

[_bug_]

the medium is CG or cel animation. anime is the genre of japanese animation. the genre is also cyberpunk. amazingly enough movies can belong to more than one genre.

Just what we need

[blanks]

Another amazing anime story line that will be destroyed with American directors dumbing it down to be a blockbuster hit.

I don't expect this to be a good thing in anyway. A great example would be what hollywood did to the aeon flux comic book / cartoon.

Re:Just what we need

[mdm-adph]

Hey, come on -- the Aeon Flux movie wasn't that bad.

Want an example of an absolutely horrid adaptation.?

Beowulf. Nothing more needs to be said.

As long as

[Pojut]

I think this is a fantastic idea that has tons of potential...so long as they stick to the animated movie.

Don't get me wrong, I prefer the tone and happenings and style of the Manga over the Movie, but I think the style and tone of the movie makes for a better movie.

Much of the humour and style in the original manga would be damn near impossible to duplicate on the screen. They could easily do things super-serious and philisophical, which is the way I hope they end up going.

It MUST be R-rated!

[RevWaldo]

If they release a PG-13 version for the theaters and then an "unrated" version on DVD (OK, Blu-Ray) I'm boycotting on moral principle. It's gotta be the cussin-hard-drinkin-chain-smokin-inappropriate-office-attire- runnin-around-nekkid-sexual-tension-filled-hundred-million-bullets version fans will expect, or all that CGI will be for naught.

Re:It MUST be R-rated!

[kalirion]

Cussin? Haven't you heard, there's no cussing in Japan. Not real cussing.

Fact of life

[Anonymous Coward]

So the world fringes on post mortem, and everyone is busy wetting themselves over a cartoon. I guarantee this story will recieve far more pointless comments then any other current ongoings.

Bravo humanity.

Good to Balance the Bad

[whisper_jeff]

Well, I suppose we needed some good news to balance out the news that the world is coming to an end in 30 years. :)

Scraping the Bottom of the Barrel

[_bug_]

The original GitS movie is like the original Matrix. Unique (when you first saw it), exciting, fun, and a total mind fuck.

Then the sequels came.

The gold has been polished off this statue. Now it's just a lump of lead.

Re:Scraping the Bottom of the Barrel

[iainl]

How can you call the first Matrix film "Unique", when one of the many sources it stole so liberally from was indeed the GitS movie?

Obviously it added its own elements to the blend, but somewhat like that terrible Judge Dredd movie suffered due to Robocop, I can't see a way to remake Ghost In The Shell without being accused of ripping off The Matrix by people who don't know any better.

Re:Scraping the Bottom of the Barrel

[Knara]

There were no "sequels" to the "original" (based on the manga) GitS movie. Innocence is more or less completely unrelated to the first movie, the manga predated it, and Stand Alone Complex runs in a totally different timeline (and is significantly better than the first movie released).

How to make the film flop

[pandrijeczko]

Just give it a sub-title:

"Ghosts In The Shell - from the animation style that brought you 'Marine Boy'

please clarify..

[atamagabakkaomae]

3-D live-action feature A CG 3D render movie?
A 3D vision movie you watch through red-green glasses?
A 3D first person shooter?
All of the that? None of that?

I hate this already

[Anonymous Coward]

Prepare yourselves for another braindead film. A shell without the ghost.

My 2 Cents

[Anonymous Coward]

I think they should do something ground-breaking and earth-shattering with this series. 3D live action is old hat, 4D live action or even taking it down a notch to 2D live action would be interesting. Whatever, I guess GiTS the series syndicated will be pulled from adultswim now, tsk.

Finally, a definitive answer to the question

[noewun]

"Is there anything Hollywood won't shit on?"

So, let's see: Tom Cruise can play Batou. I know Batou is suppoed to be a big dude, and Tom Cruise is 4' 10", but I'm sure Cruise's face can easily be CGI'd onto a big, special effects body. Maybe they can also CGI in some acting ability. Jessica Simpson can play the Major. I know she's not Japanese--hell, she's a blonde--but what does that matter? We can wrap her in some tight, revealing costumes and no one will notice her from the neck up! She's made for the part! And instead of Japan, it can take place in L.A. And instead of hunting criminal, they'll hunt terrorists. Or maybe people who are mean to puppies. Or they guy who yesterday put whole milk instead of skim into Spielberg's latte.

Now, please excuse me while I got stick forks in my eyes.

Re:Finally, a definitive answer to the question

[katz]

I think the movie can make a powerful impact with someone like Sigourney Weaver playing the Major, as she's an established icon for powerful women. I hope hope *hope* this film won't feature another sexy but twenty-somethings (like they ones in Terminator 3, Ultra Violet, and Resident Evil) who make up for lack of charisma and character with boobs and lipstick. For Batuo maybe someone from the likes of David Carradine, Viggo Mortensen, Hugh Jackman*.. someone older and grayer, tougher. No clue who would make a good Togusa.

Anyone else here happy that GitS has kept the same Japanese voice actors across all three films and anime series? I sure am. Especially considering the nine-year lapse between the first two films.

- Roey

* I was thinking also of Hugh Laurie, but then, I can see the movie turning out a comedic medical thriller)

Re:Finally, a definitive answer to the question

[UnknowingFool]

Actually, I would be interested in watching the version you describe because I like watching train wrecks, and I'm not hardcore fan. However, if Jessica Simpson sits down to a computer and utters: "This is Unix. I KNOW Unix!", I'll have to start murdering everyone around me including myself to spare them from the misery that will follow.

Re:Finally, a definitive answer to the question

[mdm-adph]

Sadly enough, you'd need the Sigourney from about 10 years ago in Alien: Resurrection -- the character was perfect, all emotionless and superstrong -- would have been perfect to play the Major.

Hell, even whats-her-face from Aeon Flux will probably be better than who they're eventually going to cast (whoever it is in the end).

Re:Finally, a definitive answer to the question

[Anonymous Coward]

How about Ashton Kutcher and Seann William Scott in "Dude, Where's My Tachikoma?"

Re:Finally, a definitive answer to the question

[|/rad|/oder]

And this is exactly right. I would like to introduce into evidence the films A.I, Minority Report, and War of the Worlds. Spielburg is apparently allergic to source material which does not include a happy ending. Why he is still allowed near science fiction I am not sure.

GitS is one of the shining exemplars of speculative scifi. Spielburg has no interest in tough question, he just wants his storytelling to result in happy answers. The questions GitS asks are usually threatening in nature, and rely on their own philosophical scaffolding which is expanded upon exponentially in the SAC series. I have little to know confidence that Dreamworks in general will respect this. If they did, there wouldn't be a need to make it live action, itself a decision that seems completely bizarre to me. I thought Dreamworks wanted to challenge Pixar? THIS IS YOUR CHANCE!

I've got a sawbuck on everyman Tom Hanks being cast as Togusa, despite being completely unable to convey the idealism of the Rookie.

And the music will suck ass because there is only one Yokko Kano.

Re:Finally, a definitive answer to the question

[risk one]

And instead of hunting criminal, they'll hunt terrorists.

They already did. In the comics, the movies and the tv series. Of course, back in the eighties terrorists could still be white non-muslims. The word has been redefined a little (or should I say re-imagined?)

Re:Finally, a definitive answer to the question

[Knara]

I think Milla should do it. She'd be perfect, if you ask me.

Re:Finally, a definitive answer to the question

[Anonymous Coward]

As long as the main characters ain't Japanese, I will never watch the new GITS whatever made by anyone.

Re:Finally, a definitive answer to the question

[DKlineburg]

Where does Tomb Raider fall? of course she was programed to be a sex symbol. . . now what was that button combination in that tunnel....

A talking Donkey

[Etherwalk]

> I hope they add a talking donkey.

Slightly O/T, but this brings up an interesting question: can't anybody in the world use Jar-Jar Binks without legally infringing on Lucas' copyright, since Binks is a pre-packaged parody of himself? (The same would apply to the donkey in Shrek, though perhaps more so since he's just Eddie Murphy and is the same character in so many things it would be hard to argue a new copyright existed just because he was a talking ass.)

--
IANAL. This post is a joke. If you use it as legal advice, you probably deserve to get sued.

Re:A talking Donkey

[jeffmeden]

can't anybody in the world use Jar-Jar Binks without legally infringing on Lucas' copyright, since Binks is a pre-packaged parody of himself? Your question brings up a less interesting but easier to answer question: Would anybody want to?

Why I despise superhero movies

[elrous0]

My problem with superhero movies is that they stay *TOO* close to the original material. Things that look good and cool on a comic book page often look silly in live-action (like most superhero costumes, which just look goofy in the real world). And stories that fit right in the cliched, soap opera-level world of comic books are horrible when translated to a more sophisticated cinematic world.

Basically, the vast majority of superhero movies are filled with cliched, one-dimensional heroes and villains; with plots that are laughably predictable and pedestrian. They're nothing more than FX showcases and the chance for some a-list actors to take home a big paycheck (or for some b-listers to BECOME a-listers). They're shit, they've pretty much always been shit, and they probably always will be shit. And adherence to the "original material" won't make any difference in that regard.

In the end--no matter how great the origin story is--they always end up in the stupid costume, fighting the cardboard villain, and winning the predictable victory.

I will grant an exception to two superhero movies which I do like: Superman 1 (which is the only truly *epic* superhero movie I've ever seen) and "Mystery Men" (which is a bit of a parody, but has a lot of heart).

Re:Why I despise superhero movies

[gstoddart]

My problem with superhero movies is that they stay *TOO* close to the original material. Things that look good and cool on a comic book page often look silly in live-action (like most superhero costumes, which just look goofy in the real world). And stories that fit right in the cliched, soap opera-level world of comic books are horrible when translated to a more sophisticated cinematic world.

Well, I would say that some of the recent ones have been pretty good. The X-Men series and Spiderman for instance tried to stay pretty close to the originals, while tweaking some of the elements to adapt to screen better. They've been remarkably successful in the box office, and they provide us with some of the best examples of an adaptation of a comic which treats the material well. The fans of the original material have generally been on-board for those ones.

Now, arguably, they're still not Shakespeare. But, they're sort of expected to still remain as popcorn flicks -- they are entertainment, and by necessity have a certain requirement to remain somewhat over the top. However, the better ones also show some of the angst and problems that the superheroes face, so it's not completely one-dimensional. X-Men even poked fun at the superhero costumes.

And, really, let's face it -- a comic-inspired super hero movie better be an FX fest. As long as they're well done, drive the story forward, and show us the amazing things that we expect, that's a good thing. If it becomes a pure FX spectacle with weak writing, no discernible plot, and nothing genuine ... it's going to suck. And, nothing will fix that.

Anyway, I guess we'll wait and see how the Hulk and Iron Man turn out this year -- since they're by the same people who did the X-Men, Spiderman, and will be associated with Ghost in the Shell, that might give us a sense if they're still trying to do a decent job with the material.

I have a slightly warmer feeling to this project knowing that the guys who have done the only decent comic adaptations are doing this one.

Cheers

Re:Why I despise superhero movies

[chromatic]

X-Men even poked fun at the superhero costumes.

That's not clever writing, though. That's "Oh, look how pomo-ironic we all are! Aren't we cool?", and it's sloppy and overdone.

Re:Why I despise superhero movies

[Lord Apathy]

The X-Men series and Spiderman for instance tried to stay pretty close to the originals,

I have to take exception with this, or at least the Spiderman part. My suspension of disbelief died when they tried to make as close to real as possible. Like when they made his web shooter organic and moved them to his arms. There is a reason that in the comic they where artificial. I know of no spider that spins webs from its front legs much less shoots webs from any part of its body.

If they wanted to follow that organic line, Spiderman in the movies should be shooting his webs out his ass. Now there is a pretty picture for you. Makes swinging from building to building interesting to say the least.

Re:Why I despise superhero movies

[gstoddart]

That's not clever writing, though. That's "Oh, look how pomo-ironic we all are! Aren't we cool?", and it's sloppy and overdone.

Oh, god. Someone invoked post-modernism in the context of a freaking comic-inspired movie. Kill me now.

There needs to be a corollary to Godwin's law for post-modernism, with extra doom points for using that weak-ass abbreviation PoMo. Well, here's my rebuttal to that. Hopefully you can make sense of it. :-P

Dude, seriously, it's freakin' X-Men for crying out loud. It was also less than 30 seconds of screen time, so I'd hardly call it overdone.

And, as "PoMo Ironic" as it is, it is impossible to film a comic book movie without having to wink at your audience and acknowledge that it is, in fact, a comic book movie. If you play it straight and pretend like nothing happened, you likely have a stodgy film. If you play it like it's filmed by and for buffoons, it's going to suck.

PoMo. Great googley moogley.

Cheers

Re:Why I despise superhero movies

[gstoddart]

There is a reason that in the comic they where artificial. I know of no spider that spins webs from its front legs much less shoots webs from any part of its body.

Ummm ... and, yet, the irradiated spider giving him super powers gets a pass? Climbing buildings and super strength is OK?

Really. At some point, you just need to close your eyes and squint at the plausibility of certain things in certain kinds of movies. They're entertainment, they're based on comics, and they're going to necessarily be implausible. It's not like you can make the rest of it overly plausible. It's called willing suspension of disbelief for a reason.

For me, knowing damned well that it's pulled out of the Marvel Universe tells me that I need a lower threshold for what is "real". It has an inherently higher level of outright fiction that you need to account for. However, if you actually watch the movie and remember that it doesn't reflect reality, it's not that difficult. They are in a different universe than ours, and the laws of physics have been ever so slightly tweaked to make for the stories.

I'm sorry that particular thing really spoiled it for you. But, really ... it shouldn't come as a huge surprise that one needs to accept some pretty unlikely things when you're watching a screen adaptation of Spider Man.

Cheers

Re:Why I despise superhero movies

[chromatic]

And, as "PoMo Ironic" as it is, it is impossible to film a comic book movie without having to wink at your audience and acknowledge that it is, in fact, a comic book movie.

I suppose internal consistency has never been a hallmark of the spandex-and-steroids set.

It was also less than 30 seconds of screen time, so I'd hardly call it overdone.

One scene in my first novel (also technically post-modern, if not because of this scene) discusses the nature of art, the quality of the craft of art, and why Star Trek sucks. Meta-commentary on the level of "Hey, I know we're making an engrossing movie here, but let's all take time out for a second to remind you that you're sitting in a theater eating overpriced popcorn with a bunch of other comic book fans in costumes. Isn't this great?" is at odds with suspension of disbelief in the same way as obvious plot holes, poor acting, and unbelievable characterizations and motivations.

If you play it straight and pretend like nothing happened, you likely have a stodgy film.

And yet Unbreakable actually worked as a movie.

Re:Why I despise superhero movies

[gstoddart]

I suppose internal consistency has never been a hallmark of the spandex-and-steroids set.

Well, lapses in it aren't something that overly bothers the consumers of that genre. Mostly, blow shit up, put some babes in spandex, and have fun are the criteria for such people (including me).

Meta-commentary on the level of "Hey, I know we're making an engrossing movie here, but let's all take time out for a second to remind you that you're sitting in a theater eating overpriced popcorn with a bunch of other comic book fans in costumes. Isn't this great?" is at odds with suspension of disbelief in the same way as obvious plot holes, poor acting, and unbelievable characterizations and motivations.

*shrug* If you need to be coaxed too hard into suspending disbelief, why are you watching it? The nod and the wink to the audience is what it is -- sure, it technically violates the 4th wall that is supposed to be in cinema/theatre. It's certainly less annoyingly pretentious than discussing "the nature of art, the quality of the craft of art, and why Star Trek sucks". The literati might care, most of the rest of us don't.

But, as I said ... if you're watching Spider Man or X-Men, you in all likelihood aren't there for serious academic discussion of the plot devices and techniques. It's like watching porn and expecting deep insight into the nature of human suffering and power-relationships -- unless of course you're Andrea Dworkin. Trying to apply really rigorous analysis to such things seems pointless to the extreme. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

And yet Unbreakable actually worked as a movie.

In a really limited way to a really limited set of people. Personally, I can't stand that director. I find his films can be watched exactly once (if at all), and only with the impending doom of having missed the clues to the inevitable surprise twist at the end. I eventually stopped watching any of his films because he so heavily relied on that damned surprise ending as to make the rest of the film experience really annoying. You could see a trailer and know damned well there is a big twist at the end. You don't know what it is, and you immediately decide you don't give a flying fsck either. It essentially became his schtick.

But, that's just me. I'm a simple creature, when I'm watching a comic book movie, I want and expect some cliches, the odd catch-phrase, and a couple of stereotypes thrown in -- then again, I own Snakes on a Plane on DVD. Looking for profound meaning with a subtext on the human condition and a hint towards modern politics isn't always what I'm looking for. That's not to say that I don't occasionally look for some subtext on the human condition or references to modern politics. But, I don't expect it in every piece of cinema I see. Certain kinds of films, not at all.

Sometimes, I just want to see shit blown up, and have the good guys save the day. If there's chicks in tight fitting spandex, all the better. :-P

Anyway, I don't think we need to get into a public pissing contest over how much literary merit is in an action flick, or if Star Trek does, in fact, suck. That's about as self indulgent and geeky as it gets. ;-)

Cheers

How many ways could this suck....

[arcsimm]

As much as I want to hope for this to be awesome, I can't help but think it'll be a disaster. Even if GitS manages to make the journey through Hollywood and its myriad screenwriters, producers, and directors with themes, plots, a characters mostly intact, it'd probably end up getting panned by critics as "unoriginal" and "heavily derivative of The Matrix." Maybe I'll be surprised. I'm not counting on it, though.

hollywood manga?

[jollyreaper]

*puts on vader helmet* DO NOT WANT!!!!!!!\

If Spielberg was a REAL fan....

[Anonymous Coward]

...He should have donated to the GiTS project instead of simply buying it off and doing what he thinks is right.

I for one will sorely miss the titlesongs by Origa

Well bang goes the Japanese then

[thewils]

I watched GiTS in the original Japanese, then I started to watch an episode overdubbed in English. Man the voices sucked. For me GiTS is nothing without Atsuko Tanaka's rendering of the Major. If they switch to English they've gone and lost at least one customer.

also didn't aquire

[Anonymous Coward]

actually it acquired

burg or berg?

[Anonymous Coward]

"Spielberg"...

S-p-i-e-l-b-e-r-g.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speilberg

forget donkeys

[SuperBanana]

I hope they add a talking donkey.

I hope they add lesbians! Or rather, add them back (the manga spent a little time on the Major's "preferences".)

Of course we will have stylized 3D

[PMBjornerud]

I can see Appleseed being the forefather of the next generation of anime. The 3D work in Appleseed was handled brilliantly. Anime is stylized cartoons. 2D.

And yeah, we are certainly going to have a form of stylized 3D. The scifi-subset of anime sounds like a very obvious candidate for pioneering work in the field.

Hand-drawing every single frame of a movie just doesn't make sense these days. Computers can draw much better for the same price, and a director can do things like change his mind about a scene and redraw it. Humans are slightly less happy to see their hard labor being scrapped. And the particle effects and physics are plain evil difficult to draw. That's a bunch of reasons off the top of my head.

Yes, I know there is a lot more to anime than "stylized 2D". But with computers doing the 3D drudge work the designers can focus on getting all the storyline, atmosphere and artistic details just right.

Re:Of course we will have stylized 3D

[Gravatron]

Actualy, it's been a long time since anime was hand drawn and painted. Most shows nowadays are digitally painted, which helps keep colors vibrant and consistant. Even some of the later hand painted ones made use of CG in places. Ghost in the shell, for example, used CG heavily to do effects work.

Re:Of course we will have stylized 3D

[Anonymooses]

Hand-drawing every single frame of a movie just doesn't make sense these days. Computers can draw much better for the same price, and a director can do things like change his mind about a scene and redraw it. Humans are slightly less happy to see their hard labor being scrapped. And the particle effects and physics are plain evil difficult to draw. That's a bunch of reasons off the top of my head. Except for the fact that even when digital ink and paint is used that a person is still drawing and coloring it. There isn't a "draw anime" button that someone pushes on a computer and it spits out everything.

Re:Of course we will have stylized 3D

[nidarus]

Computers can draw much better for the same price

I hope you're right. I love the "2d look" and I don't want to see it go away because it's cheaper to use 3d. Unfortunately, there are nearly photo-realistic 3d animations, and no 3d animation that look like classic (hand-drawn) animation. That tells us that the problem is far from being trivial.

Re:Of course we will have stylized 3D

[njen]

As someone who has worked in the animation industry for 13 years, it pains me to think people out there still think like this. In any medium of animation, the artist still does the bulk of the work. Pencils, paint brushes and computers are simply tools. Humans create animation, computers create nothing.

Re:Of course we will have stylized 3D

[PMBjornerud]

I hope you're right. I love the "2d look" and I don't want to see it go away because it's cheaper to use 3d. Unfortunately, there are nearly photo-realistic 3d animations, and no 3d animation that look like classic (hand-drawn) animation. That tells us that the problem is far from being trivial. I think the issue is more related to choice of style and that many believes photorealism and not ultra-stylized 3D is the way to go. There are exceptions, however. Ookami (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%8Ckami) is a game using the 3D engine to render into a style inspired of watercolor/woodcarving artwork.

As "everything" looks photorealistic, I expect more and more esperimenting with other render styles, classic or something completely new.

The real power of putting computers to work, however, is when you put physics engines to work. Then you can calculate accurate interactions between mass and forces, deformations and particle effects. (Smoke is extremely difficult to animate by hand)

Depth

[NotFamousYet]

In my eyes, GITS provides a very deep reflexion on the nature of what might become. In particular, it has been a pioneer in issues such as transhumanism, the impact of AI vs biological intelligence, the nature and value of interpersonal relations, the changes in the notion of self and identity in a world where you can change your body as if it were a utility, and the cutural impact of "dehumanization". I sincerely hope Spielberg can capture the depth of the movies and series.

Re:Depth

[Evangelion]

It'll have cute kids.

Re:Seen it (Matrix)

[BForrester]

2D Live Action
3D Dead Action
3D Live Comedy
1D Live Drama
4D Dead Romance ...the possible permutations are endless. Use your imagination.

Casting for Motoko Kusanagi.

[sidragon.net]

I believe there is only one woman who qualifies for the lead role. See search the search results for clarification.

Re:Casting for Motoko Kusanagi.

[geminidomino]

Dude, give them The real link

You know we're all going to do it anyway!

*fires up DownThemAll!*

Kill me now...

[monopole]

Oh god, it's Saban Moon all over again!
They already did a live action version, it was called "The Matrix".

Frankly, going from the political surreal subtlety of Oshi to the Feelgood whack you over the head style of Spielberg is terrifying.

Back away from the property Steve, and get something better suited to your talents like La Blue Girl. (He could do wonders with a CGI Nin-Nin)

Political Appointment??

[Dareth]

What are you trying to do get a John McCain cabinet position?

Re:Political Appointment??

[UncHellMatt]

Dunno' bout that. Perhaps a hutch. Maybe a chesterfield.

Spielberg's attempt at a similar theme

[Lonewolf666]

Spielberg did a passable to good job through most of "AI", up to the moment where the little robot gave up and dropped into the sea. The completely tacky resurrection by aliens, however, ruined the film for me.
So I'm a bit skeptical about him making GITS. Riddley Scott (Blade Runner) would be perfect.

Re:Spielberg's attempt at a similar theme

[Anonymous Coward]

You could tell exactly when Stanley Kubrick died in the production of AI. The movie should have just ended with the boybot under the sea, but Senor Spielbergo had to tack on a happy ending with advanced robots doing archaeological digs and rescuing him.

Talking Donkey

[Fnord666]

I hope they add a talking donkey.

Thanks but no thanks. If I want to watch talking donkeys, I'll flip channels to CSPAN.

Re:Anime.. A genre whose time has *come*??

[SharpFang]

Why, do you say good anime can't be simultaneously an outlet for pent up frustrations of pedophiles?

NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!

[313373_bot]

(Actually, there should be more exclamation points to express my utter disgust, yet I got "Filter error: Too much repetition.")

Needs To...

[Anonymous Coward]

Would be great if this could be made as well as Minority Report was.

The OST

[theneb]

I hope they stick to the OST from GIT1/2 series. Part of the surreal experience of the movies was the haunting music. Better now Sepielberg bring John Williams and fuck it up with "merry" tunes.

Battle Angel

[Experiment 626]

I hope this doesn't turn out like Battle Angel. A big-shot American director (Cameron) decides he likes the Anime and buys up all the rights, halting domestic distribution of the original animated show. Plans for a movie based on the franchise turn out to be vaporware.

Re:Battle Angel

[Anonymous Coward]

I hope this doesn't turn out like Battle Angel. A big-shot American director (Cameron) decides he likes the Anime and buys up all the rights, halting domestic distribution of the original animated show. Plans for a movie based on the franchise turn out to be vaporware.

battle angel is a pretty bad example considering there are only 2 episodes

Re:Battle Angel

[Mojojojo Monkey Inc.]

battle angel is a pretty bad example considering there are only 2 episodes While there were only 2 animated episodes, I believe there were 9 manga novels which could easily have been expanded into a full-length series. Or as Cameron plans to do if the movie ever gets made and is successful (since it's supposedly based on the first 3 graphic novels), make another 2 full-length movies to complete the storyline.

Kind of a non-issue though, considering Battle Angel was released back in the early/mid-90's, it's not like it was in wide release anyway.

Re:Battle Angel

[Briareos]

battle angel is a pretty bad example considering there are only 2 episodes While there were only 2 animated episodes, I believe there were 9 manga novels which could easily have been expanded into a full-length series. Or as Cameron plans to do if the movie ever gets made and is successful (since it's supposedly based on the first 3 graphic novels), make another 2 full-length movies to complete the storyline. Well, Kishiro disliked the way those 2 episodes came out and didn't agree for them to make more, so that was the end of it - Cameron had nothing to do with that...

Also, Kishiro's still working on the sequel to, I mean revised ending of, or should we call it continuation of Gunnm: Last Order - 10 books and counting.

np: Lou Rhodes - Never Loved A Man (Like You) (Bloom)

Please...

[Anonymous Coward]

To Dreamworks, I say: Please don't screw this up. :(

Tachikomas

[RyoShin]

I'm a big GitS fan, though I prefer the series to the movies. This makes me wonder where they are going to take their material- while the series and movies had fairly similar settings, the plots were different. It also makes me wonder if they'll rip a story from one of the many to choose from, or just make a new story (hopefully with input from Masamune Shirow (and Kenji Kamiyama if they do the show)).

I hope they take a few things from the show, though. One of the favorite things in the show was the Tachikomas. They were like little children (with voices to match) armed with cannons and submachine guns. I would love to see these guys translate into real-life models (if only basic constructs enhanced by CG).

That said, I do echo the concerns of my peers- Hollywood has a way of fucking up things. I'm liking what I'm seeing with Speed Racer (mainly because it looks to be super cheesy in a good way), but the majority of video game adaptations have been horrendous. At least Uwe Boll isn't part of this. I'll try to reserve judgement until I actually see it.

Re:ANIME = GARBAGE

[miscz]

Just watch Ghost in the Shell movie and TV series. I actually stopped watching anime because nothing comes close to their quality.

None of the above...

[denzacar]

Live-action - Meaning real actors. Maybe some CG (as usual these days), but live actors. Not animation.
3D - Meaning stereoscopic 3D technology. No red-green glasses. Polarized glasses. Like what Cameron is using for Avatar and Battle Angel.

Transformers + More mature theme = Super badass?

[TheLazySci-FiAuthor]

Considering how visually stimulating and action-packed transformer's was, I can only imagine how superb this could be, if done right.

I would hope that dreamworks would at least try to shy away from dumbing-down the story and the technological saturation and philosophical foundations of the universe and the character's motivations.

The Matrix did show that at least a little bit of intelligence and philosophy can be woven into a hollywood blockbuster.

Re:Anime.. A genre whose time has *come*??

[denzacar]

From TFA:

" 'Ghost in the Shell' is one of my favorite stories," Spielberg said. "[b]It's a genre that has arrived[/b], and we enthusiastically welcome it to DreamWorks." Fuck! When did we go back in time?
Why didn't anyone tell me we were doing this?
I had a sports almanac I wanted to take with me back to 1995.

Re:Anime.. A genre whose time has *come*??

[Anonymous Coward]

anime is the genre of japanese animation. Japanese animation is not a genre of anything.

Better watch out.

[cabazorro]

For those unfamiliar with the show, the premise, are the drama of an undercover counter-espionage counter-terrorism squad team (Section 9). In the last installment of the series (Gits 2nd GiG). There are suicide bombers, cyberbots prostitutes and all kind of uber-violence. Gits is adult animation for detective stories. And if Lewis Coleman is going to ef_up this work into some Teenage-Power-Rangers/Staship-troopers crap we should send Batou with some Tachikomas to straighten up his aaaz.

Re:Anime.. A genre whose time has *come*??

[badasscat]

the medium is CG or cel animation. anime is the genre of japanese animation.

There is no genre called "japanese animation", anymore than there is a genre called "Hollywood movies" or "silent films". These are not genres.

A genre describes a work's "aboutness". It's a broad category that describes a set of themes. "Japanese animation" does not do that, and hence it is not a genre. All you know if somebody tells you a work is Japanese animation is that it was produced in Japan and if there is spoken dialogue, it's probably in Japanese. You know nothing of what the themes or aesthetics might be.

The Simpsons is animated in Korea. Does that makes the series' genre "Korean Animation"?

This is film theory 101. (Literally. That's the class I learned it in, 15 years ago.)

GitS movie was good, but the SAC series are better

[Sepiraph]

As a GitS fan, I am exciting but at the same time worried about what 'Western' adaption of GitS would look like. Also although the original GitS movie was good, the SAC season I and II series are superior in the sense that fully a full 26 episode season really allowed the story and its universe to be examined in detail, something that a movie can never truly do.

With that said, I'd still be eager to see Hollywood version of GitS, even if I may very well end up hating it.

Verdatum

[Verdatum]

(Flamebait) Oh dear. Score-wise, Yokko Kano is much cooler than John Williams.

Re:Verdatum

[Steauengeglase]

At least Kanno has done more than one soundtrack. Stylistically, Williams has been treading the same kiddie pool his entire career.

Re:Anime.. A genre whose time has *come*??

[Anonymous Coward]

What if it's like the new Speed Racer movie? Is that live action? Just because of the live actors? I blame Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow.

Awesome

[Steauengeglase]

Now we can find out about Motoko's estranged relationship with her divorced parents!

troll score

[Anonymous Coward]

Anime is nothing more than a legal outlet for the pent up frustrations of pedophiles

Grave of the Fireflies is a terrific movie ... especially the idiotic futurism of Ghibli

Your trolling rates a paltry -i/10, but I'll grace you with a reasoned response anyway. First up, Grave of the Fireflies was a Ghibli production. Secondly, just which "idiotic futurism of Ghibli" are you talking about? Studio Ghibli's works are almost entirely coming of age stories based in historical and/or fantastic worlds: witches, nature spirits, flying castles, varied Japanese gods, a country of talking cats, and so on. Hell, even GotF can be seen as a coming of age story, as in "welcome to your life, too bad it got nuked!"

As for the first point, I only need one counter example to defeat such absolutist claims as "nothing more than": Leiji Matsumoto (where's your cutsey prepubescents now, sucker?). Or specific works: the adaptation of Kenji Miyazawa's Night on the Galactic Railroad (or Kawamori's adaptation of Miyazawa's life in Spring and Chaos?)

This is the kind of fail that happens when people insist that anime is a "genre" and attempt to make ridiculous generalizations based on only having seen Moetan or something.

Re:Anime.. A genre whose time has *come*??

[Anonymous Coward]

the medium is CG or cel animation. anime is the genre of japanese animation. the genre is also cyberpunk. amazingly enough movies can belong to more than one genre. Would you call American cinema or British comics a genre?

This makes GiTS immortal, please read on...

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm just glad as it is that there were no (big) cliffhangers in the Solid State Society movie. For me that was basically the final chapter in the GiTS S.A.C. chapter. I was wondering if there'd be any more but to be perfectly honost I'm glad with the way it is.

A 3rd season might have fucked up too and /then/ people would remember GiTS as the major suckage (people tend to remember the bad parts better). BUT if Spielberg totally screws up (which I sorta expect to happen) /then/ people will think back about those wonderfull days when GiTS was still active with the Stand Alone Complex and/or Innocence (I liked S.A.C. and S.S.S. better than Innocence myself).

Either way I think this will make GiTS immortal, no matter how big they manage to screw it up.

Aeon Flux

[Tungbo]

Look what they did to that? A fine action movie, but without all the dissonant puzzling quirks of the original.

dumb down?

[Anonymous Coward]

You english-speaking audience should feel lucky that you get to watch the series with english translated subtitles. which, i might add, are extremely high quality and i give props to the diligent groups that do that work. my hats off to you good sirs.

here in japan, GitS is marketed towards only the super otaku fan-base, and even then, the language and material covered is so far over peoples heads, my friends and I guesstimate that only 50% of what is happening is understood by the audience.

the mixture of super-obscure and hyper-fast japanese mixed with a constant barrage of english [that most japanese, 99.99%] cannot read even if it was freeze frame, let alone flashing past at the speed of light, makes me wonder if the makers just wanted to do something that most people cant even comprehend.

all those obscure quotes from poorly translated english classic literature, the bible, etc. - the average japanese person has no clue what any of that means.

i join in your cries for dreamworks to not dumb it down, but in all reality, if you want anyone to understand exactly what's going on -- its almost a necessity

Re:dumb down?

[Knara]

While I have no doubt that what much of you say is true, it's interesting to note that the Stand Alone Complex social construct in SAC is (apparently) partially based on the works of Masachi Osawa, a Japanese philosopher whose published papers have never been translated into English (along with Fredrick Jameson, who obviously has been).

Though I can buy into what you say. I had to watch the whole series twice before I really understood what happened in the first season.

Graphic Novel

[Midnight Thunder]

If you haven't seen the original version of the first ghost in the shell then you should find a copy of it and watch it. The SAC mini series is great; but the surreal feeling you are talking about from stand alone complex is minimal when compared to the full original movie :)

They are all good, but then again I am avid fan of Motoko. If you get the chance then I highly recommend getting the graphic novels, since not only is the artwork amazing, the stories are good and seeing all the little comments Masamune Shirow puts in really helps understand some stuff.

No.

[Anonymous Coward]

plans to produce a "3D Live Action" version of the popular anime.

No, just no. Bad hollywood, bad!

buuuuuuullllllshit.

[solios]

Mod parent troll, please. Battle Angel is a Cameron project, not a Bay project.

Which is good. With Bay we would have gotten decent pacing, top-knotch effects, good cinematography, massive continuity errors and zero rewatchability.

With Cameron, we'll get great pacing, excellent visual effects, killer cinematography.... and Celine Dion.

Re:Anime.. A genre whose time has *come*??

[Hatta]

You're telling me that knowing that a film is considered 'anime' tells you nothing about what the films themes or aesthetics are? Sure the themes are pretty varied, but there are a lot of common points. I'm no anime fan or literary critic, but it seems like perseverance, personal resilience, or finding power within oneself is a very common theme in anime. And aesthetically, well we all know what anime looks like. So yeah, I'd say anime meets your definition of a genre.

Re:Anime.. A genre whose time has *come*??

[Anonymous Coward]

Eh, I'd go with "Style" or "Form" as a categorization of Anime. You might as well call "Hollywood films" a genre, for what it's worth.

Anime can cover any genre that live-action work can. According to wikipedia (for whatever that's worth), the term "anime" simply means animation in Japan, while elsewhere "anime" usually means a certain style of animation from Japan.

Cartoons in the US are commonly considered "kids stuff," so people might consider cartoons a genre in the US. From this notion, one could glance at anime and consider it a genre. But how can you clump GiTS next to Lupin, My Neighbors the Yamadas or All Purpose Cultural Cat Girl Nuku Nuku? By genre, they are future/ sci-fi/ drama, comedy/ crime/ spy stuff, family sit-com, and wacky mecha-cat-girl antics. And I haven't even mentioned tentacle beasts...

Sure, there's plenty of cartoon-like anime shows, with ridiculous plots, slapstick antics, and rather thin characters, but there is also the fantastic Memories three-pack (Magnetic Rose, the beautifully confusing space drama-mystery, the black comedy of Stinkbomb, and the comedic commentary piece, Cannon Fodder).

But by now I'm preaching to the converted.

oh well, 20 years later is not too bad

[hoyeru]

considering the first came out in 1989, I guess it took Spieldberg long enough. Yet another movie I won't be shalling any money for but pirating just so i can bitch at how bad it is

Could be a good thing.

[Cjstone]

This could actually turn out to be a good thing. Even if the live action movie isn't as good as the orignal. If the film is good enough it could be used to garner more interest in the anime and manga. You know, "If you thought that was good, check out the original!"

On yet another hand

[Xenaero]

It doesn't take just a crappy Hollywood writer to fuck up a movie. Anything (or anyone) involved can twist the quality around, from directors, to actors, to writers, to budgets! I don't think that we should blame exclusively the writer when the movie turns out to be a stinkbomb. I'm not saying it will be, but you know, it's better to lower your expectations and be surprised in the future.

Holllywood idea shortage

[Animats]

The idea shortage in Hollywood continues. As Harper's pointed out, more than half of the top-grossing movies of 2007 were sequels where N > 2.

Cartoon (not comic) to live action translation hasn't been that great. "Boris and Natasha: The Movie" (1992) was something of a flop, as was "Dudly Do-Right" (1999). A third try, "The Adventures of Rocky and Bullwinkle" (2000) was a dud, too, although it was at least funny. "Underdog" (2007) is the most recent dud.

"The Flintstones" (1994) was one of the few successes. "Casper" (1995) was a success, mainly because CG animation had become good enough to be used convincingly with live actors. Those had the novelty of a cartoon as live action. But that's been done now, and the novelty has worn off.

Comic books have been a more fruitful source of material, enough so that Marvel now has its own movie studio.

Re:Holllywood idea shortage

[meringuoid]

"The Flintstones" (1994) was one of the few successes.

Unfortunately, it sucked. Really, it was terrible.

My favourite adaptation of a Western cartoon has got to be Popeye. That wasn't a great film either, but it was magnificent - whatever it was about it that made it feel right I don't know, but even though these were actors made out of meat I could accept them immediately as the characters I knew.

I actually think Scooby-Doo worked quite well too. For a while. Scored major points with me for showing how they all hated Scrappy as much as we did. It fell apart quite badly towards the end though.

However, this won't be such a problem for Ghost in the Shell. It's nothing remotely like Western animation; it's very, very realistic in terms of its character and art design. Don't think of it in terms of those shows you used to watch as a kid in the morning. This is Japan's Blade Runner.

Re:Holllywood idea shortage

[SuiteSisterMary]

Scooby-Doo live action was worth it for a) Velma checking out Daphne's rack, and b) Scrappy-Doo's 'And I would have gotten away with it, too, if it wasn't for you meddling sons-a-bi*slamming of a paddy wagon door cuts him off*'.

Re:Holllywood idea shortage

[Anonymous Coward]

You can't really compare 60's-era low-budget comedic cartoons with film-noir anime. They're both animated, but that's about the limit of the similarity. Using one to predict the success of the other would be like looking at the success of the Spiderman movies and concluding that the world is finally ready for a live-action Family Circus movie. Better comparisons might be Aeon Flux (modest success) and Transformers (blockbuster).

(Of course, if you think it's somehow valid to lump comic book-inspired material together, you might as well throw GITS in the pile. After all, it started life as manga.)

Top 10 improvements to Ghost in the Shell

[MythoBeast]

We've talked with the people at Dreamworks, and here's a quick list of the improvements that they hope to bring to the latest installation in the Ghost in the Shell franchise:

10. Cute kid to follow everyone around and ask a lot of questions
9. Helpless female with nasal voice that screams a lot and has to be rescued over and over
8. Less edgy animation so that American audience doesn't find it quite so jarring
7. Speaking of jarring, do you think we could borrow Jar-jar from Lucas?
6. Deep philosophical conundrums replaced with pop psychology and Jedi aphorisms.
5. More clothing to avoid the R rating
4. More senseless violence to fill in the parts we had to take out.
3. A properly evil villain so people know who to hate.
2. Good old-fashioned technobabble.
1. A talking Donkey (Nice call, Rob!)

Re:Top 10 improvements to Ghost in the Shell

[hengist]

I really wish I had mod points right now... and a moderation option "-1 Horrifying" :-)

Re:Top 10 improvements to Ghost in the Shell

[Anonymous Coward]

9. Helpless female with nasal voice that screams a lot and has to be rescued over and over

Just so long as its the Major doing the rescuing with some suitable lesbian induendo I think that might almost work.

Re:Top 10 improvements to Ghost in the Shell

[Bushido Hacks]

10. Cute kid to follow everyone around and ask a lot of questions

The Tachcomas should replace the "cute kid".

9. Helpless female with nasal voice that screams a lot and has to be rescued over and over

Start the movie with a bank robbery. Add a purse-snatching for extra effort.

8. Less edgy animation so that American audience doesn't find it quite so jarring

Stan Windton, deliver us from CGI evil!

7. Speaking of jarring, do you think we could borrow Jar-jar from Lucas?

Find a Sanrio store and blow it up in the movie. Sayanara, Kitty!

6. Deep philosophical conundrums replaced with pop psychology and Jedi aphorisms.

If he wants to keep is Akira Kurosawa Award, he better not.

5. More clothing to avoid the R rating

Good-bye audience!

4. More senseless violence to fill in the parts we had to take out.

Rare for a Spielberg flick. Normally a series of events leading to violence occurs first. (i.e. The Lost World)

3. A properly evil villain so people know who to hate.

The Director if the movie sucks.

2. Good old-fashioned technobabble.

Tech companies sponsoring the movie. (Most people still don't know what an Intel Processor does but they still want it.)

1. A talking Donkey (Nice call, Rob!)

Richard Epcar would not approve.

Meanwhile, in terms of who should be Motoko Kusanagi, I'm thinking Mariska Hargitay, from Law and Order SVU.

Re:Top 10 improvements to Ghost in the Shell

[Anonymous Coward]

> 3. A properly evil villain so people know who to hate.

Umm, most anime already has that. Yes, they give the villain a reasonable motive most of the time, but it's almost always clear to a Japanese audience who the "bad guy" is. It just doesn't make much sense in the west.

You can always tell who the bad guy is because they're willing to sacrifice subordinates. The good guy will often rescue even people who have betrayed them or who are suspected of working for the other side. There are other common tells, too, such as the bad guy being the ugly or scarred one, but these are sometimes subverted.

If you think about things from a western perspective, you're right that it's unclear. But from a more Japanese perspective, I've never had any trouble figuring out who the bad guy is supposed to be. Not even a little.

Re:Anime.. A genre whose time has *come*??

[psychicninja]

but it seems like perseverance, personal resilience, or finding power within oneself is a very common theme in anime.

Those things are common _Japanese_ motifs. They aren't specific to anime by a long shot

Spielberg

[magamiako1]

While I know many of you seem to think that Hollywood would really fuck this up, I have belief that Spielberg could pull the movie off.

Despite what you may think about his movies in the past, he is quite prolific and a much better producer than someone such as Uwe Boll.

If he truly likes the story, he'll stay to the original. It's possible that even Oshii could come onboard for this, which would make it a highly anticipated film.

That said, if they are to remake it, they need to do something with the plot of the movie. The first movie was actually not that great plot-wise and left you having to watch it multiple times to really get an idea or understanding about what's going on.

Maybe that sort of thing works in the fanboy/fangirl world where people want to read and write their own adaptations, but I don't think it will go over well with the American audience in general.

That said, I wouldn't mind seeing an Akira remake as well which adheres closer to the storyline of the manga.

Next up: Bleach the Motion Picture

[jameskojiro]

They need to re-make Bleach into a live action Movie, it would be so simple and easy. You would have to pick some whiny snot nosed hollywood brat that you would find on Dawsons Creek to Play Ichigo and you would have to change his name to Steve or Billy or somthin' un sophistimicated.

Instead of using Zanpakto, the could re-name them "Spirit Swords" and make them look more europeon. Or drop the swords all together and make it family friendly and use those colorful Nerf sword dildoes instead.

You need a cute character or characters for the young sheltered childrens of america. They will definately pick Orihime, but they May pick Rukia instead and that would be a sick disaster.

Orihime would instead of being a teenager in high school, she would be like 7 and she would have her hair clips that transform into really sickening sweeet CGI characters.

It would suck!!!! But at least Clorox would pick up the product placement.

Re:Next up: Bleach the Motion Picture

[Anonymous Coward]

But there already is a live-action Bleach!

Re:Seen it (Matrix)

[Anonymous Coward]

I've never heard of a 3D Live Comedy, but I've seen a 2D Dead Comedy.

It was called Sideways.

Re:Anime.. A genre whose time has *come*??

[PitaBred]

The time has come for mass audiences. The mouth-breathing twits who thought that the Matrix was ground-breaking, rather than just a rehash of Psych 101 with a lot of the plot points and style ideas rather largely by GiTS.

It will suck.

[Anonymous Coward]

It's going to be another CGI fest and it's going to suck. Just because it's a futuristic setting doesn't mean everything has to be CG; the technology is just not good enough yet. I know, without people using the technology and pushing the boundaries it'll never evolve. I just wish they'd use another film to test out their fancy CGI :P

Can't someone just make a movie using cool physical settings/models/props/etc? I'm sure with the hundreds of millions in funding they could get the guys that did Bladerunner or similar and create a real work of art. But no. They will instead cut corners everywhere they can, inserting CG props, people, backgrounds where they are painfully obvious, out of place, and have awkward movement.

Furthermore, Hollywood SUCKS AT STUNTS. Especially the actresses. I'm sure any fight/stunt/shootout scene will be painful to watch, as the uncoordinated starlet blunders around, throwing unconvincing punches, and holding her gun like, well, a girl. For reference, see any Tomb Raider, Mortal Kombat, Aeon Flux, Blade III, Starship Troopers, basically any movie with a Hollywood actress in an action scene.

Hollywood, if your movie is full of stunts/fights, hire a martial artist, or someone with a background in martial arts films to be the star. Or at least hire stunt men/women to make the action somewhat believable. They know how to move convincingly, your multi-million dollar starlet does not.

Why shoot a remake?

[Anonymous Coward]

Why? The original Ghost in the Shell was brilliant, in storytelling, setting, artwork, ... What is the use of shooting a remake? What can it possibly give us that the original didn't? Ah! I know. Lesbian sex. Oh wait, this is Hollywood, they're probably going to remove all material that they fear might cause an R-rating. And I just know they're going to dumb it down. Not that that matters to me, because I won't watch it. Why can't Hollywood bring us something new instead?

Re:GitS movie was good, but the SAC series are bet

[theantipop]

What are your opinions are the SAC movie, Solid State Society? In my opinion, the official movies served a different purpose than the SAC dogma (it also follows a different timeline, if I remember correctly). I thought they did a pretty solid job of telling as interesting a story as the SAC series did by cutting a lot of the backstory and surrounding cultural impact, which admittedly did add a lot to the series.

Battle Angel

[Anonymous Coward]

So is he going to sit on this one like he is with Battle Angel Atila? He's had the rights for BAA for at least 5 tears.

Re:Anime.. A genre whose time has *come*??

[Knara]

Correct. Basically the entire gamut plotlines and storytypes in "anime" is the same as the gamut of "movies". There's little to no information conveyed when you say something is an "anime", other than it is animated.

Speaking of furniture...

[Dareth]

Shortly after Clinton left office, I was tempted to post for sale on E-bay, one slightly stained oval office desk. It is a nice desk, but I did a horrible job refinishing it. We all got to learn sometime.

Ghibli

[gobbo]

Dubs of anime films are usually done by studios specializing in bringing as many anime films over as possible as cheap as possible, and use voice acting roughly on par with cheap children's programs. ... With a little practice you can read it fast enough to go watch the screen at the same time. I've noticed it's only people who have only watched one or two subbed movies in their life who seem to have problems keeping up with it -- but most of them pick it up fairly well by the end of a series.

Animation with subs seems only a slight improvement over print. (It's different for live actors, mind you, I won't watch those dubbed.) If I'm going to invest in a theatrical experience, I want to suspend disbelief, and reading over animation (or wrong voices coming out of human mouths) just removes me from immersion.

That said, it seems that when John Lasseter is involved, the chances of the dub being acceptable improves vastly. He worked on many of the Miyazaki/Studio Ghibli releases in english, and some of them are great. At least someone with insight and studio-power cares.

Re:Anime.. A genre whose time has *come*??

[gomiam]

Why, do you say good anime can't be simultaneously an outlet for pent up frustrations of pedophiles?

No, but I doubt someone who starts asserting that anime is "nothing more" than a legal outlet for paedophiles (as in anime being some kind of low level trash comic) will consider any anime good: painting anime in such broad brush strikes doesn't leave much place for consdering qualities. As such, his saying there is good anime looks too much like a troll (and it probably is).

Re:Anime.. A genre whose time has *come*??

[Knara]

I should have quoted a little bit better, as I was specifically referring to this:

You're telling me that knowing that a film is considered 'anime' tells you nothing about what the films themes or aesthetics are?

Anime doesn't consistently present themes of "perseverence, personal resilience, or finding power within oneself" anymore than all American movies are 80's-style action films with all their attached valuesets.

What you *do* describe is what a lot of R1-licensed anime have in common (generally, stuff that is easy to translate and appeals to a wide audience that expects more of what they liked "last time"). There's a whole shitload of other sorts of anime that appeal to difference audiences and tell stories about other things.

Great.

[Anonymous Coward]

Isn't this the company that f'd up the second movie's American release?

And it's probably legally tied up in such a way that someone can't release a good version.

<deity|non-deity> protect us from such fans.

Compare that to the treatment ILM gave the Akira special edition. Beautifully done.

Re:GitS movie was good, but the SAC series are bet

[xenocide2]

If I recall, the original movie was the result of taking the manga and applying Japanese film making principles to it, the same way one might expect Hollywood to. Which is why you've got terrible authentic Japanese song during the manufacture of Kusanagi's body (which idiots claim is some symbolic birth, but bodies are just a shell) and a robot filling a phylogenetic tree full of bullet-holes, dripping with "meaning." SAC and 2nd GiG did a fine job of adding and refining the original story, and the author was heavily involved in the production of them, unlike the first movie.

But I wonder how much of Section 9's Japanese origin will be preserved after going through Dreamworks. There's some uniquely Japanese problems about section nine that you can't translate to America easily. Japan's constitution rejects war, yet Section 9 is mostly full of soldiers who've seen combat. It's a philosophical question that an American audience would probably not find interesting. The power of the futuristic Japanese government is also demonstrated repeatedly with media blackouts sticking out in my American mind, as does the police force full of snipers on helicopters.

Matrix...

[denzacar]

. The mouth-breathing twits who thought that the Matrix was ground-breaking, rather than just a rehash of Psych 101 with a lot of the plot points and style ideas rather largely by GiTS. I remember a documentary (or something... maybe a "interesting" news report) about some guys that had quit their jobs and families and moved to an apartment where they have spent their time meditating and watching Matrix over and over.
They have actually built a religious cult (if you can call couple of guys a cult) around the movie.

Don't know if the religious zeal has survived the sequels. This was back before Reloaded.

Re:Anime.. A genre whose time has *come*??

[Intocabile]

How about British comedy versus American comedy...

Doesn't Hollywood have anything else better to do

[Araxen]

than to ruin an anime movie? They should stick at what they do best and that is ruin books.

So let's make it like Bladerunner meets Mindwalk

[Maxo-Texas]

but with a twist.. and give it a real holly wood ending.

We'll get that lady from the vampire movies as the lead and punch it up with some really big explosions in new tokyo.

Instant Classic

[Dollar1]

This should rank among such anime turned live actions gems as The Gyver and Street Fighter. And they already made a live action Ghost in the Shell its called "I, Robot". They must really been be running out of ideas if there now ripping off Saberhagen through a third party.

Don't forget The Incredibles

[Dhrakar]

More and more I've come to the conclusion that The Incredibles is my favorite super-hero movie. Granted, it was done in CG so they had much more latitude than a live-action movie. However, the story line was great and you got a sense of depth to each of the characters that you just don't normally see. If it wasn't for the fact that Pixar is too firmly in the 'family' movie camp to be able to get away with the boobies/violence in Ghost in The Shell, I'd think they could do a really interesting movie set in that realm. Note: I didn't say 'remake' I said 'new'.

Re:Don't forget The Incredibles

[Jedi Alec]

The Incredibles is awesome, in my opinion. The characters were just...i don't know, easy to relate to somehow? Good dose of humor, didn't take itself too seriously, nice pacing, the works.

I've already seen it!!!

[chord.wav]

The plot was not exactly as I remembered it from the original but was entertaining, and they kept asking about this "Matrix" thing I don't know why...

Watered down version

[Anonymous Coward]

Any chance for an Aria / Aqua live action adaptation? Although that's probably impossible, there is very little action in Aria, if any.

Re:Don't forget The Watchmen^wFF^wIncredibles

[Culture20]

I really wish the Incredibles hadn't borrowed the overarching plot (and some jokes) from the Watchmen; it's going to make the (supposed) Watchmen movie seem like a ripoff. That they did it with the Fantastic Four is even worse (come on, force fields _and_ invisibility, who are you fooling?).

Re:Anime.. A genre whose time has *come*??

[njen]

Thank you! Animation is NOT a genre, it is a production technique. You can have horror animation, comedy animation, children's animation, etc.

Some important information for the uninformed

[inception8]

This may be of interest to the people who aren't well informed: It was Production IG (the animation company who originally produced GITS and the GITS tv series) whom proposed the idea of creating a live action movie in the first place and shopped around for a studio on behalf of Kodansha (owner of the rights). Also, they will I believe be involved enough with the production of the movie. Here's an article from AnimeNewsNetwork which explains: http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2007-01-18/production-i.g-enters-negotiations-for-live-action-ghost-in-the-shell Quote from above article: "Since the popularity of Ghost in the Shell in North America was a result of the anime produced by Production I.G., many are hopeful that a live-action film supported by the company will experience a similar level of success."

Re:Anime.. A genre whose time has *come*??

[Anonymous Coward]

Well... sort of. Anime is a style; it's a subset of animation. Animation in turn can be considered a medium unto itself however.

fuck you Speildberg

[Anonymous Coward]

when a country always want to remake stuff done by other cultures there is a BIG problem.

It mean you have no respect for that said culture, and at the limit you could even invade that country with your infantry army or your marketing assimilation army (of course i don't refer to the US, the US would never do that...).

Ghost in the Trashbin

[Anonymous Coward]

Ghost in the Shell was very overrated to begin with. I can't muster sympathy for someone crapping all over a ship already sinking ... and on fire.

If you like watching emotionless characters; loooooooong, static, pointless panoramic imagery; and hear scientific philosophy everyone read in Discover magazine 6 years prior; then Ghost in the Shell if for you.

Batou IS a talking donkey!

[grikdog]

I just hope the tatikomas don't get too cozy with the Major's overdue laundry.

Spielberg doesn't know jack about GITS. Try Eva

[Bushido Hacks]

There is alot about Ghost in the Shell that defintely won't make it to theatres. It's like trying to make 4chan into a movie and not mentioning /b/. You just can't do it.
Masamune Shirow's work is great but if you've read the Dark Horse comic import (esp. Man-Machine Interface), things get very explict.

Secondly, Spielberg knows about as much about anime as most kids do about Naruto: NOTHING!

Anime fan's should know that somewhere between Japan and America, censorship puts Anime and Manga back on the barge to Japan.

If Spielberg wants to woo anime fans, he is going to have to do a better job than he did with Transformers.

He should make right all that he done and work on a project that has been in development hell for nearly a decade. (The following sentence is going to piss off alot of folks but he's got to do it.) He should work on the Neon Genesis Evangelion project. Since Robin Williams is a huge Eva fan, that takes care of finding one star willing to work on such a project.

In order for Spielberg to win back audiences, he needs to go back to what he did when he directed Jaws, Jurrasic Park, and Saving Private Ryan. He needs to get his hands dirty and start breaking the rules that Hollywood and the MPAA have restricted films from being: Outstanding. He needs to do what Ridley Scott did in movies like Alien or Blade Runner, the Wachowski Brothers did in movies such as The Matrix.

Hollywood is very afraid to go black, dark, or brooding. They are also frighten by cutures outside of the Western lifestyle. What Spielberg needs to do is tell Hollywood "I'm not afraid to cross the line and neither should you! And a bunch of Midwestern Biblethumpers who secretly have BSDM fetishes that the cover up with 'family values' bullsh*t is not going to stop me from making this movie the way Masamune Shirow, Yoshiyuki Sadamoto, or whoever else envisioned it and what his fans want from me!"

Even the crap gets censored.

[SanityInAnarchy]

I remember visiting my cousin and watching her subtitled Sailor Moon movie. I noticed two things:

First, it sounds a lot less retarded in Japanese. That's probably partly because I can't understand what they're saying, but probably also because it seems to be the same exact group of voice actors doing every single English dub of Anime. Kind of ruins it for me to have Shinji of Evangeleon sound exactly like Goku of DragonBall Z.

I do feel better about it being a reasonably large company getting the rights, though. When Disney does Studio Ghibli movies, they actually get talented people -- and different people -- to do the voices. (Patrick Stewart was in Nausicaa, I think.)

Second thing: While I had to have this pointed out to me (no way I was going to sit through the movie again), there was a fair amount of censorship just from the subbed version to the dubbed version. I assume they were both US releases... Apparently, two of the older Sailor Scouts are lesbians, and there's no secret made of it in the subbed version -- but dialog like "There are so many fun things to do when you're an adult!" get completely dropped in the dubbed version.

If they can manage to screw up Sailor Moon, imagine what they'd do to things like Ghost in the Shell?

Re:Even the crap gets censored.

[Digital_Quartz]

I think part of it is also that the Japanese voice actors are really good voice actors, which put a lot of emotion into their delivery. You might not understand the words, but you can often understand the overall attitude and tone without subtitles, sometimes even meaning.

I suspect a lot of dubbed anime, on the other hand, is using cheap voice tallent, because really it is a pretty small market.

For a really good example; Dominion Tank Police in the original Japanese is pretty funny stuff. Not the best anime in the world, but some good laughs in there. The dub is outright boring; my wife fell asleep. In the Japanese version, there's a religious member of the police force who is basically comedic relief, whereas in the dub for some inexplicable reason he speaks in old english, and everything that came across as irony or humor instead comes across as preachy and dull.

Re:Anime.. A genre whose time has *come*??

[SanityInAnarchy]

The cutesy art is designed to make the women characters seem more childlike and yet is unabashedly sexualizing and fetishizing the pre-pubescent female form.

And I suppose making the guys "cutesy" serves the same purpose? Or, for that matter, the cute children? It's made pretty clear who is what in anime.

Not that this really deserves a response. To even suggest such a thing is some combination paranoia, trolling, and a revelation -- what kind of a sick mind looks at Ghost in the Shell and calls it pedophilia?

Only hardcore fans and toddlers watch the crap now.

I thought it was nothing more than an outlet for pedophiles? Make up your mind -- is it for pedophiles, or for toddlers?

Which is not to say that there isn't good anime out there.

Actually, you said exactly that.

especially the idiotic futurism of Ghibli

WTF? I don't remember Spirited Away having anything to do with the future.

Re:Anime.. A genre whose time has *come*??

[BadAnalogyGuy]

If you look at anime in toto, you'll find (as someone else in the comments section mentioned) an abundance of buxom adolescent schoolgirl characters flashing panties at every turn. If that serves any purpose other than to fulfill the fantasies of pedophiles, I am at a loss to explain it.

Yes, toddlers do indeed watch anime, and its because they don't understand yet the overt sexualization of the characters.

Anime being primarily an outlet for pedophiles does not preclude it from being a valid form of art. Erotica is primarily for the titillation of the audience, but certainly you'd say that there are works of great worth among the dreck (Lady Chatterly's Lover comes to mind immediately).

I don't remember Spirited Away having anything to do with the future.

I assume you watched it in translation and isolation. In context, it is perfectly clear what Miyazaki is doing.

Spielberg has no taste then...

[Anonymous Coward]

Spielberg:"'Ghost in the Shell' is one of my favorite stories ... It's a genre that has arrived, and we enthusiastically welcome it to DreamWorks."

All GitS episodes follow the same format:

1. Something weird with androids/robots has happened, and terrorists are involved

2. "The Major" theorizes what's going on based on little information

3. Everyone else disagrees, questions sanity, references to "old technology" like modern guns and the taste of human food is made

4. Turns out "The Major" is right, and never makes a mistake.

5. Everyone else grumbles.

6. Additionally, if this is a seasonal bad guy, he gets away!

Add in existentialism every other step or so and you've got it.

Quite possibly one of the most boring anime series I've ever seen.

SAC voice actors?

[Anonymous Coward]

I think the big issue is Will they use the amazing voice cast from SAC? That way even if it does suck, we get to hear it suck less with some great voice acting.

oh geez

[botkiller]

I'm going to fucking cry. Now Akira will be ruined soon, then GITS, then we can move on and murder Perfect Blue, and do a live action Patlabor starring Shia Lebeouf, and eventually everything good in this world will have been destroyed by Hollywood.

Re:oh geez

[^_^x]

Me too... I bet it's going to be an interpretation of Oshii's paper thin, gratuitously cropped interpretation of the manga.
But I really worry for James Cameron's Battle Angel - Kishiro basically gave him free reign long ago saying he didn't expect it to be the same because it's a movie.

Best Producers for this Movie

[DuncanBishop]

The only people I feel right now that could give this movie a great feeling that the fans would love are the Wakowski bros..They know anime.!!!

Re:Anime.. A genre whose time has *come*??

[Anonymous Coward]

buxom ... pedophiles ... I am at a loss to explain it.

Maybe if you had any clue what the fuck a pedophile is, you wouldn't have such a hard time trying to figure out why they're turned on by drawings of D-cup bazongas.

In context, it is perfectly clear what Miyazaki is doing.

Gasp! Wait, what is it he's "doing" exactly? I've heard all sorts of crazy things like how his films are about some sort of utopia where everyone holds hands and is happy like in Grave of the Fireflies or Princess Mononoke. Sorry, it's not being lost in translation, you're just lost.

Adult audience??

[kandresen]

What is the probability that a Ghost in the Shell continuation by Dreamworks will have a 18+ years rating? What is the probability that a Hollywood movie at all will touch mature subjects such as what we have seen in the past? What is the probability of the movie to include food for thought at all - the main reason I so much have liked Ghost in a shell in the past. I unfortunately do not believe Hollywood will handle Ghost in a Shell - this will probably become a watered down version - dumbed down but with many effects aimed to sell for a large audience, nothing like Ghost in a shell at all. I hope I am wrong, but...

Re:Anime.. A genre whose time has *come*??

[SanityInAnarchy]

an abundance of buxom adolescent schoolgirl characters flashing panties at every turn.

As another poster said, that's pretty absurd -- pedophiles would be into smaller breasts, don't you think? And I don't consider high school to be pedophilia -- statutory rape, maybe, but these girls you're talking about are physically mature.

If that serves any purpose other than to fulfill the fantasies of pedophiles, I am at a loss to explain it.... does not preclude it from being a valid form of art.

Again, make up your mind. Either it serves no other purpose, or it can also be art. And yes, sometimes panty flashing is exactly what the art needs at that moment -- take Evangeleon.

In context, it is perfectly clear what Miyazaki is doing.

Care to explain it?

I can see it in Nausicaa. I can almost see it in Princess Mononoke. I really can't see it in Spirited Away.