Slashdot Mirror


Microsoft "Albany" Offers Office and Security as Subscription

News.com is reporting that Microsoft has confirmed a subscription service is in the works for the next consumer version of their Office Suite. "Code-named Albany, the product has a single installer that puts Office Home and Student, OneCare, as well as a host of Windows Live services, onto a user's PC. As long as users keep paying for the subscription, they are entitled to the latest versions of the products. Once they stop paying, they lose the right to use any version."

281 comments

  1. Something of a catch... by 26199 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Once they stop paying, they lose the right to use any version.

    So, an office suite linked to a security product and you lose both if you stop paying ... does this sound at all unpalatable to anyone else?

    (Apparently; currently the survey on the page says 41% prefer the traditional way of buying Office, 38.5% would rather not buy it at all, and 20.5% think it sounds better).

    I suppose the deciding factor is the price -- value for money. And as we know Microsoft has never failed to deliver on that one...

    1. Re:Something of a catch... by thewils · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Don't worry, it'll be cracked in the first day or so.

      --
      Once I was a four stone apology. Now I am two separate gorillas.
    2. Re:Something of a catch... by rdradar · · Score: 1

      I suppose the deciding factor is the price -- value for money. And as we know Microsoft has never failed to deliver on that one...

      So you arent using Windows right? Its still the os you get most out of, specially if you're playing games. And dont get me wrong, I have linux servers aswell, but they dont compare to desktop usage or gaming. Theres also lots of products and games I've been happy that Microsoft has released and more than gave me entertainment for the money.

      And I dont think the idea about subscription model to program is that, as long as you pay small percent of the whole price. And if you happen to be disappointed with the full version after buying it, it wont cost you that much. Just end the subscription.
    3. Re:Something of a catch... by CowboyNealOption · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I must admit I appreciate Microsoft making it even easier for me to sell the higher-ups on the advantages of using OpenOffice.

    4. Re:Something of a catch... by 26199 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      There is a certain amount of historical evidence on the "value for money" issue :)

    5. Re:Something of a catch... by peragrin · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You save all your files in what ever form and end your subscription. Now you can't open your files and you don't have an office suite.

      renting software always fails. It has no purpose and MSFT is going to charge some obscene amount so that a year of renting you can buy a full version.

      Personally for me it doesn't matter. My documents are in ODF, and I can use any numerous applications to open the data, from Open Office, to abi word, to google docs. I can get 100% portable versions of those to stick on a thumb drive, and OS agnostic.

      It doesn't matter where I am I can get MY data. Can you do the same with MSFT rentals?

      --
      i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
    6. Re:Something of a catch... by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

      Hey this sounds great. You need the program to write a paper you just rent it for a while. The Security thing is a little bit more annoying but all virus checkers seem to be going for this system.
      If Microsoft put in anti-virus software for free then people would be having a fit cow over unfair practices.

      Of course you could just get OpenOffice and Linux or you could pick up a Mac.

      But after seeing just how wonderful Vista really is why would anybody play with a toy like Linux or OS/X.

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    7. Re:Something of a catch... by gunnk · · Score: 3, Informative

      "if you're playing games" -- point conceded

      Otherwise, I honestly find that Ubuntu is a much better value. Besides being free it comes with a huge range of applications (free) that I use. In fact, I find it has a lot more features than Windows.

      I'm not completely anti-Microsoft and do think Windows is the right decision for some people -- and gamers go without saying. However, my experience is much the opposite of yours. My Ubuntu desktop is much more capable and pleasant than Vista or XP.

      --
      Life is short: void the warranty.
    8. Re:Something of a catch... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      After I saw these nice pink elefants after taking heroin, why would I want to be clean?

    9. Re:Something of a catch... by Sancho · · Score: 1

      renting software always fails. It has no purpose and MSFT is going to charge some obscene amount so that a year of renting you can buy a full version. Lots and lots of software is rented in the corporate world. Don't pay the yearly license fee? You don't get to use your enterprisey software anymore.
    10. Re:Something of a catch... by penguin_dance · · Score: 2, Funny

      (Apparently; currently the survey on the page says 41% prefer the traditional way of buying Office, 38.5% would rather not buy it at all, and 20.5% think it sounds better).

      Well, it looks like Slashdotters have been voting--now it's 42.2% would rather use a free alternative, 39% want Office traditional and 18.9% cough*idiots*cough think it sounds appealing.

      Oh, and then there's this:

      Those who subscribe to Albany will also get several free Microsoft products pushed onto their desktop--including online document-sharing product Office Live Workspace, Windows Live Messenger, Windows Live Photo Gallery, and Windows Live Mail.

      Great...program spam! I can see Clippy now, "I can see you need to use one of our other products. Here, I'll just fill up your hard drive with it!" Plonk!

      --
      If you've never been modded as "flamebait" or "troll," you've never tried to argue a minority viewpoint here!
    11. Re:Something of a catch... by palapa · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Albany is for the benefit of the computer sellers: They can advertise Office and One-Care when in reality you only get the first month free.

      --
      "Any sufficiently advanced incompetence, is indistinguishable from malice." Grey's Law
    12. Re:Something of a catch... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's called renting. Strangely enough, when I stop paying the rent on a car, I lose the right to keep driving it.

      Given the majority of cost of a software really is in support and post-release bugfixes, this causes the price to really reflect the cost structure. And this would encourage Microsoft to get out of that 'big bang' mentality and into a 'smaller, more frequent, updates' one.

    13. Re:Something of a catch... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So, an office suite linked to a security product and you lose both if you stop paying ... does this sound at all unpalatable to anyone else?


      I'm sure it sounds just fine to all the corporations who purchased Office 95 licenses. Or Office 97. Or Office 2000. Or Office XP. See where this is going? Once a volume purchaser upgrades... those old products are never looked at again.

      This is the thing all you FOSSies keep forgetting in your zealotry: MS isn't selling to the home market. Sure, that happens since people want to use the same thing at home which they use at work... but for the most part, MS doesn't focus on the home user. Their focus customer has ALWAYS been the enterprise market.

      That's why a subscription based model makes sense... and it will also make budgetting easier. Rather than having to set aside funds for an upgrade when a new version is released, the ability to upgrade just becomes an option for the subscriber which they can take advantage of whenever they choose (ITS TEH ALL ABOUT TEH CHOICE!11!!!). So rather than having to plan out thousands on purchasing new licenses for the upgrade, they just pay their subscription every year (or whenever), and it's a budgeted expense. Simple, huh?

      That's why moves like this, which make tons of sense, are beyond the grasp of FOSSies who know zero about business: because MS doesn't just pull these things out of their butts- they are options requested by their core customer base... which is business.
    14. Re:Something of a catch... by coresnake · · Score: 2, Funny

      If this software is pirated only pirates will have software! Yarrr!

    15. Re:Something of a catch... by Bert64 · · Score: 1

      Yes, but you are given the opportunity to remove yourself and your personal belongings from the car before you return it.

      --
      http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
    16. Re:Something of a catch... by Bert64 · · Score: 1

      Which means the upgrade is paid for wether they want it or not...
      And quite often they don't, and only grudgingly accept it when they get forced into it by incompatibility or end of support... The old products did the job 10 years ago, and the job hasn't changed.

      --
      http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
    17. Re:Something of a catch... by essh10151 · · Score: 1

      and you could export your documents to whatever format you'd like before canceling your subscription to this, no?

    18. Re:Something of a catch... by tsm_sf · · Score: 1

      If you have a large group to support that demands stability there's no way you're going to let MS decide when to update your machines. This plan is a bad fit for just about everyone. Perhaps home users might like it if this dropped the price of a PC to $200 or so?

      --
      Literalism isn't a form of humor, it's you being irritating.
    19. Re:Something of a catch... by jimmyharris · · Score: 1

      Given Microsoft's disastorous record of providing updates for its already-existing Software Assurance subscription, you'd have to be an idiot to consider signing up for this.

      Once you're paying a regular subscription, there's no incentive for them to keep updating the software.

      Google "Microsoft Software Assurance complaints" to see what businesses think about the deal that they signed up for...

    20. Re:Something of a catch... by tuxgeek · · Score: 1
      You know, there is always a sucker somewhere, looks like 20.5% have been found already.

      "It is morally wrong to allow suckers to keep their money." Not sure who said it first, but it applies here

      --
      "Suppose you were an idiot...and suppose you were a member of Congress...but I repeat myself." Mark Twain
    21. Re:Something of a catch... by sabrex15 · · Score: 1

      wow that should be modded insightful AND funny

    22. Re:Something of a catch... by cayenne8 · · Score: 1
      "Lots and lots of software is rented in the corporate world. Don't pay the yearly license fee? You don't get to use your enterprisey software anymore."

      Can you name some examples of this type of software? I've never run across it....I've dealt with PeopleSoft, Oracle, DB2, Solaris, etc....

      I've yet to see anything that stopped running if you quit paying for annual support. You'll get cut off from support and new patches, etc, but, certainly not stopped working.

      Can you give some examples of enterprise software that is truly 'rented' by a license fee like you're describing above?

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    23. Re:Something of a catch... by baileydau · · Score: 1

      I've yet to see anything that stopped running if you quit paying for annual support. You'll get cut off from support and new patches, etc, but, certainly not stopped working.


      Can you give some examples of enterprise software that is truly 'rented' by a license fee like you're describing above?

      SAS (Statistics software), used to at least, require an annual update of the license file, otherwise it stopped working.

      It wasn't cheap either. From memory we used to pay ~$5k per year for a 5 user license. We changed over to another package (Splus). We bought a 3 user (network) package for less than half of that. There was of course, the option of an annual maintenance fee that gave you updates and support.
      --
      Ever stop to think ... and forget to start again?
    24. Re:Something of a catch... by Bert64 · · Score: 1

      You could, but only to the supported formats...

      So you're looking at the default proprietary formats...
      A proprietary version of RTF that never works quite right in any other app...
      Old formats like wordperfect 6, with filters designed to import well but export badly...
      Plain ASCII text (works, but you lose all your formatting).
      HTML, but not exactly standard HTML.

      Whatever you do, if you have especially complex documents your chances of getting them loaded and looking the same in another app is quite small.

      There's no support for PDF or ODF by default.

      --
      http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
    25. Re:Something of a catch... by mjwx · · Score: 1

      As a gamer I can say that I would much rather use Linux than Windows. Especially with the overhead of Vista.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
  2. This is a big deal by JeanBaptiste · · Score: 1

    How will Linux compete with such a move?

  3. Vaporware Ahoy! by westbake · · Score: 1

    It does not exist yet and you lose it if you quit paying your subscription. Though you never really did own Windows or the computer running it, this takes vaporware to the next level.

    --
    I am a name troll of Westlake. Visit my homepage to learn why.
  4. This just in by WiglyWorm · · Score: 1

    Microsoft debuts baloon made of lead!

    1. Re:This just in by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Microsoft debuts baloon made of lead! First they steal from apple, now mythBusters. When will it end?
    2. Re:This just in by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dose it look like this one?

    3. Re:This just in by Rev+Saxon · · Score: 1

      But myth busters proved that they would fly :)

      --
      I am that much more enlightened and proportionally disillusioned
    4. Re:This just in by cayenne8 · · Score: 1
      "Microsoft debuts baloon made of lead"

      Microsoft sued by Jimmy Page.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
  5. Also illegal, at least in Canada by trolltalk.com · · Score: 4, Informative

    Up here, it's illegal to make it impossible for a person to access their own data. Therefore, while they are allowed to prevent you from making new documents, spreadsheets, etc., they cannot disable the "read-only" features of the software.

    1. Re:Also illegal, at least in Canada by 26199 · · Score: 5, Funny

      But as long as you save in OOXML you can always read your data ... it's an ISO standard!

    2. Re:Also illegal, at least in Canada by ergo98 · · Score: 5, Informative

      Up here, it's illegal to make it impossible for a person to access their own data.

      I highly doubt this has any applicability to a subscription version of Office. When the subscription runs out, it doesn't suddenly encrypt all of your files. You are still free to bring those files to any of millions of capable machines, any print shop in the world, or use the long existing free "Viewer" versions.
    3. Re:Also illegal, at least in Canada by pembo13 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Well you (people who paid for Office) gave the cash which helped to fund OOXML and the possible destruction of ISO

      --
      "Thanks for all the money you paid to us. We've used it to buy off ISO among other things" -Microsoft
    4. Re:Also illegal, at least in Canada by cheesethegreat · · Score: 1

      I'd like to know exactly what the law is on this. Consider the following scenario:

      I rent an English-Albanian dictionary and then translate a document from English to Albanian.

      The rental expires on the dictionary, and I return it.

      I can now not access my data despite being in possession of the file.

      Is the owner of the dictionary under a legal obligation to allow me to use it to recover my data? Seems doubtful.

      In the same way, if you're renting this software from Microsoft, and then the rental expires in accordance with your contract, I find it hard to imagine that they would be under a duty to enable you to use their product to access your files.

      But I could be wrong; my knowledge of Canadian law is limited to its overlap with the UK. Please point me in the direction of legislation/case law if this isn't a correct analysis for Canada.

    5. Re:Also illegal, at least in Canada by peragrin · · Score: 4, Funny

      Where the frack do you rent a dictionary? Wouldn't borrowing one at the library be easier?

      --
      i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
    6. Re:Also illegal, at least in Canada by GIL_Dude · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I'd hope that law is really clear about what "access" to the data is. Because Microsoft ships free "viewers" that allow you to read the data, at which point you could copy and paste it to something else. Not sure if that meets the legal terms in that law, but it sure might. I'd prefer that "access" meant you could read and write, but since copy/paste/write would "work" it may be all that is required.

    7. Re:Also illegal, at least in Canada by Ifni · · Score: 1

      How does this work for other subscription services like World of Warcraft? Technically, your character, etc, is your data, though by the EULA Blizzard claims that all data is theirs, so perhaps that's how they get around it, and Microsoft could just do the same.

      Also, it isn't impossible to access your data - you can renew your subscription or even use any of a number of free solutions (OpenOffice) to get at it once your subscription lapses. And who knows, they may very well leave read only enabled.

      In short, though I think that the product will suck (unless it pencils out to be roughly the same as buying it over a 2-5 year subscription, and even then it won't be for everybody), I don't think there are any laws that will make it stillborn.

      --

      Oh, was that my outside voice?

    8. Re:Also illegal, at least in Canada by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative
    9. Re:Also illegal, at least in Canada by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A library book is a no-fee rental.

    10. Re:Also illegal, at least in Canada by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 4, Insightful

      How does this work for other subscription services like World of Warcraft? Technically, your character, etc, is your data, though by the EULA Blizzard claims that all data is theirs, so perhaps that's how they get around it,


      Correct, that is how they get around it.

      and Microsoft could just do the same.


      Um, no. Technically, Microsoft could try this gambit; I'm not sure whether, legally, it would work or not. But practically, it'd be a death sentence on Office. Rights to Eleroth the Night Elf is one thing. Rights to your personal correspondence, to the data that your business needs to run, to your personal data, that's another. If Microsoft announced that they owned all the data created by subscription Office, nobody would buy it. Ever.
    11. Re:Also illegal, at least in Canada by genericpoweruser · · Score: 1

      But what if it wasn't explicitly sold? Isn't that what Google Docs does?

      --
      A fool and his lamb are worth two in the bush.
    12. Re:Also illegal, at least in Canada by trolltalk.com · · Score: 2, Informative

      In your example, you saved your document in Albanian. There's nothing preventing you from reloading that document in Albanian.

      Also, it turns out it's also illegal in the US - L'Oreal Corp. sued one of their IT suppliers who turned off all access to their data after they switched contractors. The courts ruled that the data belonged to L'Oreal, not the contractor, and that the contractor had to make the data available in machine-readable form, even if L'Oreal could no longer create additional data records with the product.

    13. Re:Also illegal, at least in Canada by The+Iso · · Score: 1
      --
      "You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows." - Bob Dylan
    14. Re:Also illegal, at least in Canada by penguin_dance · · Score: 4, Interesting

      But hold on...who says they're going to MAKE any viewers for the new version of Office. There's no guarantee that older viewers will work. What you'd be better off doing is saving your documents to where they will work on older versions of Office.

      Then of course, there's just telling M$ to stick it and continue to use the current version of Office or switch to Open Office. I don't think most users will want or need anything beyond what is available now. I used to teach classes in Office--very few ever use the advanced features. I feel like MS took too long to get something like this out. It's almost like taking a step back to the mainframe days when programs were routinely put out as a subscription coupled with a help/service plan.

      What will be interesting is when Open Office can read/write "Albany" documents. Will MS file a lawsuit?

      --
      If you've never been modded as "flamebait" or "troll," you've never tried to argue a minority viewpoint here!
    15. Re:Also illegal, at least in Canada by trolltalk.com · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Access, in this case, means machine-readable form. In other words, you have to be able to export it, even after any "subscription" expires that allows you to create or modify new data in that format.

    16. Re:Also illegal, at least in Canada by Planesdragon · · Score: 1

      I'd prefer that "access" meant you could read and write, but since copy/paste/write would "work" it may be all that is required. Substitute "physical hardware" with "software" and apply the same logic.

      I rent you a computer. You save your files to a flash drive. You don't pay, I take the computer back.

      No court in the world will require that I give you a computer to let you read your files. Even if the computer has zero value to me. At most, I'll need to remove any encryption lock and leave your files in a format that an ordinary practiioner of the profession can access them.

    17. Re:Also illegal, at least in Canada by immcintosh · · Score: 3, Informative

      Most major corporate/government users would simply not abide anything other than complete and total ownership of their documents. Imagine a law firm with privileged attorney-client communications, or something like JPL with research data. Any version of Office that even thought to claim any sort of ownership rights over documents produced would indeed be a more or less immediate and outright death sentence for the product. It would instantly be consigned to the fringe uses where privacy doesn't really matter, meaning basically nothing in the corporate or government world.

    18. Re:Also illegal, at least in Canada by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You skipped the part where you destroyed the English version of your document. Also, good luck translating (i.e. figuring out the grammar) with just a dictionary.

    19. Re:Also illegal, at least in Canada by treeves · · Score: 1

      You also forgot to include a car in your analogy. Mandatory for all analogies at /.

      --
      ...the future crusty old bastards are already drinking the Kool-Aid.
    20. Re:Also illegal, at least in Canada by TheNetAvenger · · Score: 1

      Up here, it's illegal to make it impossible for a person to access their own data. Therefore, while they are allowed to prevent you from making new documents, spreadsheets, etc., they cannot disable the "read-only" features of the software.

      Free read-only versions already exist for Office, why do you think Microsoft would penalize someone that had subscribed by denying them access to these features everyone else in the world gets for free?

      Classic MS paranoia... (PS Do you think all the companies that are already doing subscription models with Microsoft for the last several years haven't tested the extent of the subscription rights and don't you think you would have heard someone screaming in Business if MS was screwing customers that dropped their subscription services? And yes this includes countries outside the US, as one of our partners is EDS Europe and they deal with customers that have MS based software subscriptions all the time.)

      BTW The rights to information created via software and licensing is more dodgey than you realize. Look at OS upgrades and products from companies that require new versions to access pre-existing data. Even Apple has done this several times on 'licensed' software that creates content, with no recourse available legally to their users, even in Canada if I am not mistaken.

      Additionally, software subscription services are NOT as abnormal as people seem to think they are. This is just industry progression, but using an old paradigm in a modern context.

      For example: TiVo is virually the SAME THING, as you are paying the software service, and lose the rights to play your own recorded content if you cancel the subscription. (Older TiVo models allowed content to play after subscriptions were terminated, new models don't.)

    21. Re:Also illegal, at least in Canada by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Frankly I would hope that making office a subscription would have the same effect. It will on me.

    22. Re:Also illegal, at least in Canada by aztektum · · Score: 3, Funny

      Oh that's BS. That's like saying I am culpable for giving a convicted armed robber a gun and he went and robbed someon...

      Wait. Fuck.

      --
      :: aztek ::
      No sig for you!!
    23. Re:Also illegal, at least in Canada by RalphSleigh · · Score: 1

      How does this work for other subscription services like World of Warcraft? Technically, your character, etc, is your data, though by the EULA Blizzard claims that all data is theirs, so perhaps that's how they get around it, and Microsoft could just do the same. That's easy, use the World of Warcraft viewer, e.g.

      http://armory.wow-europe.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Dragonblight&n=Teno
      --
      Come as you are, do what you must, be who you will.
    24. Re:Also illegal, at least in Canada by pembo13 · · Score: 1

      If you had reason to believe the buyer would use it for a criminal act, I suspect you would be at least brought to court on the matter.

      --
      "Thanks for all the money you paid to us. We've used it to buy off ISO among other things" -Microsoft
    25. Re:Also illegal, at least in Canada by rtb61 · · Score: 1
      The most interesting part of consumer subscription for office is a M$ admission of ballmer's balls up and the disaster that office 2007 has been, the least upgraded version of M$ office and the need to shift to a subscription model in the consumer market to try and sustain income. Of course M$'s version of subscription will be actual service and support will cost extra and the fees only pays for minimal access to the software, abridged useless help files and no manuals (basically paying for bug fixes).

      Of course with the subscription fee version of the software expect invasive monitoring services to ensure service stops after you stop paying, what, protection money. They have tied office to required (as a result of windows and office security failings) security software, stop paying and you system will be infected within days and your data destroyed. You think they would have baulked at the whole blatant public perception of a M$ protection racket tied to your documents, ballmer really does work hard at creating the imagine of being an arrogant, disconnected git.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    26. Re:Also illegal, at least in Canada by KGIII · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure if it is to sustain income. It seems, at the angle I see it, as an attempt to be trendy. SaaS is hip and a handy buzzword. What some people (moronic bosses and industry pundits) seem to forget is that the days of thin clients have already happened, a connection isn't always assured, and people just plain like software on their computers. People like the idea of owning something. IT is run by people and, sure, some may like the idea of not having to manage their end-user's Office products and not having to do security updates but (and I speak only for myself) it seems unlikely that many will trust Microsoft's ability to really want to move in that direction. If the decision is made to move to the SaaS model (or hip phrases like "computing in the cloud") it will be made by moronic non-IT suits who think that the latest Gartner report must be true because they paid so much for it.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    27. Re:Also illegal, at least in Canada by Dan541 · · Score: 1

      Removing you right to use office doesn't make it impossible for you to access your data.

      Notepad will give you access to data contained within an Office file.

      ~Dan

      --
      An SQL query goes to a bar, walks up to a table and asks, "Mind if I join you?"
    28. Re:Also illegal, at least in Canada by jimicus · · Score: 1

      What some people (moronic bosses and industry pundits) seem to forget is that the days of thin clients have already happened, a connection isn't always assured, and people just plain like software on their computers. Who said anything about thin clients? What about a thick client with a license key which expires in 1 month? After 1 month, you have to renew the license and it's only the renewal which requires being online.
    29. Re:Also illegal, at least in Canada by cheesethegreat · · Score: 1

      I tried to find the L'Oreal case, but no luck. Sounds interesting, and I'd love to read it if you happen to know the citation.

      From what you said, though, this is a different scenario. In the L'Oreal case, it sounds as though the company was no longer able to access (in the sense of retrieve the 1s and 0s) their files. I suggest that is distinct from being able to interpret and decode (in the sense of converting machine-readable to human-readable) files.

      On that analysis, the Microsoft subscription wouldn't be affected. When your subscription expires, the files you've created, and your ability to "access" them is unaffected. All that is affected is your ability to interpret/decode them.

    30. Re:Also illegal, at least in Canada by drawfour · · Score: 1

      Microsoft already has free viewers for Word, PPT, Excel, and probably some others. While the article doesn't say specifically that these will continue to work, or that these free viewers are the way to continue to read data after the subscription ends, it's a pretty good bet that whatever the final product looks like, there will always be a way to view the documents, supported from Microsoft, and a part of the original package deal.

    31. Re:Also illegal, at least in Canada by Ifni · · Score: 1

      That is true, but you will notice that their current plans only extend to Home/Student versions of Office, so corporate adoption of the model is meaningless.

      --

      Oh, was that my outside voice?

    32. Re:Also illegal, at least in Canada by trolltalk.com · · Score: 1

      We're not just talking about MS-Office here ... Microsoft *does* sell server software.

    33. Re:Also illegal, at least in Canada by trolltalk.com · · Score: 1

      Data is not considered just the raw text - formatting, embedded tables and images, etc., are all part of *your* data. If you just wanted the raw text, you'd just run "strings $FILE_NAME > my.data.txt".

    34. Re:Also illegal, at least in Canada by trolltalk.com · · Score: 1

      The L'Oreal case was back in the late '70's or (very early) '80's. L'Oreal (plaintiff) decided to switch IT providers. Defendant then shut down their use of the programs necessary to access their data. "You can have the raw data, but you can't have the programs to read it unless you pay us more $$$." Digital blackmail. Very unprofessional, and the court ruled that the IT company was illegally preventing L'Oreal from accessing the data they owned.

      End result was that the only safe course of action is to make sure that there's either an "export to .." option for all data (docs, databases, binary data) or a free reader. Besides, it's just "good business."

  6. by cutting prices! by Reality+Master+201 · · Score: 4, Funny

    We'll charge nothing at all for linux and open office, and you're entitled to all upgrades for free.

    1. Re:by cutting prices! by techpawn · · Score: 1

      The first one is always free..

      --
      Ask not what you can do for your country. Ask what your country did to you
    2. Re:by cutting prices! by johannesg · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You got it all wrong. You do it by charging a HIGHER price for a comparable Linux / OpenOffice based package.

      Pricing it higher will create the impression that this is a more worthwhile package (and vice versa: a lower-priced package will be less worthwhile). And it creates income that can be used to further build up the open source industry.

    3. Re:by cutting prices! by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 1

      And so are all the others, too.

    4. Re:by cutting prices! by InlawBiker · · Score: 4, Funny

      NEW! Ubuntu Linux 8.04, $999.99 with $999.99 INSTANT REBATE!

    5. Re:by cutting prices! by genericpoweruser · · Score: 1

      Since the software we're talking about in this thread (OpenOffice.org) is licensed under the LGPL, all future ones are free too.

      --
      A fool and his lamb are worth two in the bush.
    6. Re:by cutting prices! by plover · · Score: 1

      NEW! Ubuntu Linux 8.04, $999.99 with $999.99 INSTANT REBATE! MicroCenter, is that you?
      --
      John
    7. Re:by cutting prices! by ill+stew+dottied+ewe · · Score: 1

      I swear some people would buy that for the percieved value. I've fought the battle of "free is worthless" too many times to count. Throw in "Free upgrades for life!!eleventy-one!" and a good chunk of consumers (people who have chosen to remain passive purchasers) would "buy" it right now.

    8. Re:by cutting prices! by tsm_sf · · Score: 1

      How do we stay in business? Volume!

      --
      Literalism isn't a form of humor, it's you being irritating.
    9. Re:by cutting prices! by Metasquares · · Score: 1

      Wow, what a great deal! Quick, I need to buy this thing before the sale ends!

    10. Re:by cutting prices! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You, obviously, haven't been paying attention.

      Everybody knows linux is worth $699. SCO told me so. And they gave me a certificate to prove it and everything.

      So you can just forget your little $999 scam. Would you happen to be based in Nigeria?

  7. It Would be Microsoft Doing This by imamac · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This is Microsoft's way of demonstrating once and for all that you don't "own" the software you purchase. I hope this doesn't catch on and become the primary distribution model. If we don't own the software we purchase then the manufacturer does not have to guarantee any proper functionality.

    1. Re:It Would be Microsoft Doing This by Kjella · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If we don't own the software we purchase then the manufacturer does not have to guarantee any proper functionality. Have you read the EULA? If it wasn't for consumer protection laws (and basic fraud) you'd have no guarantee that it has any functionality at all, nor is Microsoft liable in case the software eats your data and bricks your machine.
      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    2. Re:It Would be Microsoft Doing This by alexhs · · Score: 2, Insightful

      On the contrary, I hope it becomes the primary MS distribution model.

      People currently don't perceive the cost of MS software as it is included in the cost of the computer.

      If this becomes the primary distribution model, cheaper (and free) alternatives will be perceived all the more interesting.

      Isn't the one-time purchase cost what made MS popular in the first place (against mainframe subscription model) ?

      --
      I have discovered a truly marvelous proof of killer sig, which this margin is too narrow to contain.
    3. Re:It Would be Microsoft Doing This by clodney · · Score: 1

      There are going to be two very distinct reactions to this.

      In the home world it is unlikely to take off, because people don't think in terms of the monthly cost of operating their computer. They want to buy and be done with it. Same reason that subscription music services have never done really well.

      But in the large business market this may well succeed. Businesses are accustomed to budgeting and depreciation and all sorts of accounting practices that people don't have to do at home.

      Businesses assume that it costs X dollars a month for a computer, and as long as the subscription costs fits in nicely with whatever cycle they buy upgrades on, they won't mind the rent/buy dichotomy.

      Even more, they may really like it because this presumably puts the licensing burden on MS. If the BSA comes in to do an audit, your defense can probably be that all of your people have Albany logons and it is Microsoft's responsibility to track which ones are paid up and which aren't.

      Upgrades become something of a no-brainer as well - the cost is figured in ahead of time, and rolling out the upgrade is something that probably happens automatically. I presume that their is some mechanism where organizations can take upgrades on their own schedule, ala Update Server, but the actual process of pushing them down is probably handled by MS.

    4. Re:It Would be Microsoft Doing This by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Adobe's been demonstrating it for a while already. Down with online, subscription-based applications (including pay-for-play MMOGs).

    5. Re:It Would be Microsoft Doing This by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Businesses assume that it costs X dollars a month for a computer, and as long as the subscription costs fits in nicely with whatever cycle they buy upgrades on, they won't mind the rent/buy dichotomy


      They might--if they perceive it as renting their own data. I predict a lot of business are going to perceive this as paying Microsoft a price in order to access their documents--and Microsoft can change that price any time they feel like it. They aren't going to like that perception. "I am altering the deal. Pray I do not alter it any further."
    6. Re:It Would be Microsoft Doing This by plover · · Score: 1

      This is Microsoft's way of demonstrating once and for all that you don't "own" the software you purchase. I hope this doesn't catch on and become the primary distribution model.

      Why do you think Microsoft has been pushing so hard for .Net and the Trusted Platform Module? By providing locked down consumer hardware that refuses to run without a valid subscription authorizing token, they can actually use that to enforce their licensing model.

      They can also use it to ensure that Office is run only in .Net 3.5 (or whatever), and never in Mono.

      TPM may offer some security benefits to businesses who wish to control access to their company-owned equipment, but it will never offer positive value to home consumers.

      --
      John
    7. Re:It Would be Microsoft Doing This by mlts · · Score: 1

      I don't see why the TPM chip is so evil. Its just a cryptographic token similar to an aladdin eToken that is present on the motherboard. All TPM implementations I know of offer the ability to completely and totally disable them.

      TPM has a great benefit for home use, especially laptops. In case of a laptop theft, the encryption makes the theft "just" a loss of hardware rather than a loss of hardware and information that can be potentially used for ID theft. Microsoft with BitLocker, PGP with their whole disk encryption, and I think Ubuntu offers use of the TPM as well as an emergency passphrase as well.

      If a company demanded something run only on .net 3.5 (for example), they could always ship a hardware dongle that did the same thing as the TPM... and in 24 hours, someone would have a patch out to have the dongle completely emulated.

    8. Re:It Would be Microsoft Doing This by spisska · · Score: 4, Insightful

      But in the large business market this may well succeed. Businesses are accustomed to budgeting and depreciation and all sorts of accounting practices that people don't have to do at home.

      Businesses assume that it costs X dollars a month for a computer, and as long as the subscription costs fits in nicely with whatever cycle they buy upgrades on, they won't mind the rent/buy dichotomy.

      Maybe. It's certainly true that business operate on a much different and much more complex accounting and budgeting framework than households, and maybe monthly/yearly payments for software better fit into the whole budgeting/life-cycle/depreciation system. But I rather suspect not.

      Businesses are much more concerned with reliability than with novelty. Businesses are also very concerned about having control over where, when, and on what their money is spent. A CIO may buy something like MS Office figuring on a three-year lifecycle, but then realize that there's nothing to be gained by upgrading. Thus running the software longer than the three-year term originally planned represents a savings, and money in the budget for other things.

      If this were not the case, most businesses would be running MS Vista and MS Office 2007. In fact very few are, and a significant number of businesses still have a significant number of MS Windows 2000 machines running.

      The fact is that a word processor/spreadsheet package is much more like a typewriter than like a telephone line. It's a product that you buy and create documents with, not a service that needs the constant attention and maintenance like a phone network with a huge company behind it. And no business would welcome the possibility of being held hostage by one of their vendors. It's becoming increasingly clear that while applications may be proprietary, there is no reason for data formats to be. It's worth paying for a product for the features it delivers, but not worth the liability if what you create is worthless outside of the application.

      I tend to think instead that this move by MS is fairly insignificant play in what is becoming a very significant battle that will determine the future of the company. They're being forced to shift the whole direction of the firm into an area where they have never had any success, and in which there are already very formidable players.

      This isn't about software subscriptions, it's about hosted services. MS has seen the future and doesn't like what it sees -- systems, applications, databases, communications, etc all living on the network and available anywhere there is a connection (and in many cases where there is not), regardless of platform.

      I work in a middling consultancy that is almost exclusively an MS shop, and I've already seen folks at my firm excited about the Salesforce/Google Apps pairing. We recently migrated our CRM system to Salesforce and the consultants we have on the road are very interested in the ability to review and edit contracts and proposals on the fly, from their Blackberries. They also really like the idea of how chat/mail/calendars can be integrated into particular account records without the clumsiness endemic to Outlook.

      We've only just begun looking into an official use of the Google Apps, but there is much interest. I certainly think we'll be moving in this direction well before we start planning a Vista rollout, or even an Office 2007 rollout. And I don't believe that we are in a unique position.

      MS is terrified of this because their entire existence depends upon the platform -- primarily Windows but also MS Office and the supporting systems that businesses require, like Exchange and MS SQL. Salesforce plus Google Apps chips away at the need for an MS platform, and certainly is a direct attack on the whole one-user/one-system model that MS has always used. I can get to my Saleforce account, company mail, company calendar, company documents, etc. from anywhere, on anyone's system.

      Basically, if

    9. Re:It Would be Microsoft Doing This by srmalloy · · Score: 1

      What I find most amusing about this is that Microsoft is trying to game the system in whatever way is most beneficial to them. As we saw in a recent Slashdot article, Microsoft tried to duck paying royalty taxes in India by claiming that their transaction with customers was a sale, only to have their position shot down by the tax authorities pointing out that the product EULA clearly states "this product is licensed, not sold". As a transaction which bears all the characteristics of a sale, however, Microsoft only got money when the customer 'bought' their product. By introducing a subscription-based product, they tap into the Holy Grail of cash flow -- being able to charge a customer over and over again for the same product.

      Not only that, but with a subscription-based mechanism, Microsoft gains the legal right to intrude into customers' computers to take action if they believe that the terms of the subscription may be being violated, which I would expect Microsoft to contend gives them carte blanch to monitor your system.

    10. Re:It Would be Microsoft Doing This by Z34107 · · Score: 1

      For me, it all depends on pricing.

      If Office Professional Kittens Edition 2007 x64 .NET (TM) (R) (C) costs me $400, but Office Rental 2009 is $100 a year, then I'd go with "Office Rental 2009." Especially if it included "Office Rental Supreme Edition 2011" when it came out.

      If it's a "we're going to charge you $400 a year, every year, and then report you to credit agencies" then, no. Screw you, Microsoft.

      Also - what's to keep them from including a year subscription with new computers? It would be just like commercial virus scanners.

      --
      DATABASE WOW WOW
    11. Re:It Would be Microsoft Doing This by Anne+Thwacks · · Score: 1
      businesses still have a significant number of MS Windows 2000 machines running.

      MS seems to have found a way of killing them. I have just upgraded the last of our Win2k server edition machines to XP. Following a HD crash, WInt2k refused to work after all the updates were installed. I suspect MS fowl play - but the chickens are coming home to roost on this one. We no longer have any windows servers - they are all OpenBSD except an experimental Ubuntu one. Ubuntu takes less than a third of the time to install than WinXP, and that is exclusing the time to install video drivers and applications - an extra day wasted. And it does not pester you with popups.

      TCO: Even if WIndows was free it would still be a bad deal.Yes the CEO and CTO (me) knows this

      Please OpenSource community, can we have a replacement for Exchange Server? Til then where can I get one that runs of OpenBSD for under £500 and no "per seat" license?

      --
      Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
    12. Re:It Would be Microsoft Doing This by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      People currently don't perceive the cost of MS software as it is included in the cost of the computer.
      Most often it's only Windows, and I doubt they're going to move to subscription for that anytime soon - why bother, anyway, if they still get a cut from almost every single PC sold today? It's a steady revenue stream as it is.
    13. Re:It Would be Microsoft Doing This by mikey1134 · · Score: 1

      It's not a perfect replacement, but have you looked at SuSe OpenExchange? It was recommended to our company when we needed an Exchange Server upgrade. We didn't end up going with it, but for some shops it might be a perfect fit.

      --
      <gir voice> I love this sig... </gir voice>
    14. Re:It Would be Microsoft Doing This by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      Please OpenSource community, can we have a replacement for Exchange Server? What do you need an Exchange server for? If you need email, shared calendars, corporate address books, and support for both a web interface and fat clients with all of these then I'd take a look at Scalable OpenGroupware.org. If you need something beyond that then please let the developers know what's missing. I don't have a need for this kind of software, but I played with an early beta and it seemed to work nicely on OpenBSD.
      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
  8. Fantastic by Tibor+the+Hun · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Let me see, I need to type my college papers, christmas letters, and an occasional sales poster. Let's see the benefits of the magnificent MS Office Live RX over the OpenOffice, or Symphony...
    Stupidass Microsoft... (And stupidass people paying for that crap...)

    --
    If you don't know what AltaVista is (was), get off my lawn.
    1. Re:Fantastic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've tried OpenOffice on numerous occasions and EVERY time I go back to MS Office. Why? Becuase it just works better.

    2. Re:Fantastic by norbac · · Score: 1

      I don't understand this argument... MS Office is destroying OpenOffice even when people have to pay quite a lot for it. How is introducting a third option of paying a few bucks a month going to move folks to open source alternatives?

  9. If it's like Albany by NorbrookC · · Score: 4, Funny

    the state capital of NY, it'll cost a lot of money, spend years trying to accomplish anything, and work only part of the year.

    1. Re:If it's like Albany by peragrin · · Score: 3, Informative

      oh,oh, you forgot always over budget, never delivered on time, and makes you wonder where your money actually goes.

      --
      i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
    2. Re:If it's like Albany by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      But does it come with hookers?

    3. Re:If it's like Albany by Mix+Master+Nixon · · Score: 2, Funny

      That'd be the Premium Plus edition with the hookers. Also comes with blackjack.

      --
      Oppressing an entire population is never cheap.
      --Jeckler (/. Beta IS GARBAGE!)
    4. Re:If it's like Albany by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Shows how much you know. Everybody knows the capitol of NY is NY city.

    5. Re:If it's like Albany by Qwaniton · · Score: 1

      Not only that, but every version's supposed to be even better, yet it just gets even slower and more confusing, and takes up more space doing it.

    6. Re:If it's like Albany by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I lived in 'bany for three years and I'm not getting that time back after I die. What's up with MS and naming? What's next? Microsoft Youngstown? Office Newark?

  10. Never by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I will never use a subscription based product that creates and manages data. Essentially, M$ will be holding your data hostage. Don't pay and you can't access your documents.

    That's bullshit.

  11. Hello? ISO? You listening? by Marc+Desrochers · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Perfectly timed, just after OOXML is approved, wouldn't you say?

  12. I wonder: by abolitiontheory · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Who sells more songs, iTunes or Napster?

    1. Re:I wonder: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Modded off-topic? On the contrary, moderators. His point is that Napster is subscription-based, and iTunes is not.

      And iTunes is more popular. Get it?

  13. Albany branch? by porkThreeWays · · Score: 1

    I heard the MS Albany branch is worse than Scranton!

    --
    If an officer ever threatens to taze you, say you have a pacemaker.
  14. Not Unreasonable by cheesethegreat · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Actually, let's just think about this for a second.

    You currently pay $300 for the standard Microsoft Office 2007.

    If all they're doing is spreading out the payment over 3-4 years, with a small premium thrown in, that's not such a bad deal. I'd happily pay a $25-50 premium on software like Office in order to receive constant updates. So if what they want is $115 annually instead of 300 at once, that's fine by me. These products don't usually have more than a 3-4 year life-cycle anyway, and this way instead of being stuck with a single version, you get something which improves over time.

    Obviously, the question of how they implement it, what they charge, and how good the "free upgrades" really are will determine uptake of this product. But if you take off your microsoft-bashing hat for a second, this isn't as stupid as it looks.

    1. Re:Not Unreasonable by pembo13 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You currently pay $300 for the standard Microsoft Office 2007.

      No I don't. Maybe if it has something that I need I would, but it doesn't so I don't.

      --
      "Thanks for all the money you paid to us. We've used it to buy off ISO among other things" -Microsoft
    2. Re:Not Unreasonable by corsec67 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      What about when your files become incompatible with the latest version?

      If you have your file spread across 3 versions of office with minor to serious incompatabilities, how do you use your old files?

      --
      If I have nothing to hide, don't search me
    3. Re:Not Unreasonable by denis-The-menace · · Score: 2, Insightful

      re:"These products don't usually have more than a 3-4 year life-cycle anyway"

      That's cuz MS *HAD* to release updates to get more $
      With this, they get $ regardless of what they add in.

      At the start, they will add really useful stuff that you can only get in "Albany".
      Once enough idiots bite, they'll stop improving things, fire half their programmers and hire lawyers.
      Why?
      -To sue people trying to cancel their Albany subscription.
      -To sue OpenOffice for implementing their patented, ISO standard file format.

      --
      Obama's legacy: (N)othing (S)ecure (A)nywhere and (T)error (S)imulation (A)dministration
    4. Re:Not Unreasonable by Marc+Desrochers · · Score: 1

      You're assuming that it *will* improve, and you are also assuming that the TOS will not change. But what's to worry about, Microsoft wouldn't do that would they?

    5. Re:Not Unreasonable by explosivejared · · Score: 1

      Well some people do buy it, like it or not. While it does feel just plain wrong to give any praise to the devil, this move does give users of office a little more freedom. Isn't that what we're all shouting about all the time, freedom in software? I'm not so gullible as believe that MS is now pushing for more freedom in software, but this doesn't seem like a bad deal. It requires less of a commitment from users, and it allows them to adapt their usage to future requirements. In fact, I could also see this diversifying the market a lot. Since the initial investment in the software is so much less with this subscription based model, that it allows users more latitude, especially in enterprise. Think about how often this situation occurs: a manager has just spent $x (where x is large) on an office solution, and because of the fact the solution cost so much, the company then feels tied to it because the investment was so great. Lowering the capital investment will increase the openness of companies to more solutions, probably even open source ones.

      --
      I got a catholic block.
    6. Re:Not Unreasonable by altoz · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It's actually better for them since it keeps a steady revenue stream instead of sales bumps. It might actually be a good thing for the user if you can use your subscription on any computer. That way, you wouldn't have to buy a subscription for the 6 computers in the house.

      However, it sounds too much like a gym membership that doesn't get used. I'm going to guess that google documents and the like will see a lot more usage as these things get more and more costly. Microsoft is a monopoly trying to cash in on its market share, but those things usually aren't taken well. At some point, they will lose market share. It's inevitable since they're taking a lot of money for delivering a good that's only marginally better than what's out there for free.

    7. Re:Not Unreasonable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      it's completely as stupid as it looks. Who actually uses all the bells and whistles of Office? I bought Office 2000 in my last year at univ, and I still use it. The new versions have never evinced the slightest desire on my part to upgrade - and it is exactly this ability to buy once and have forever that goes away once we mindlessly allow M$ to stampede us into a subscription model.

    8. Re:Not Unreasonable by Ivecowarrior · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If all they're doing is spreading out the payment over 3-4 years, with a small premium thrown in, that's not such a bad deal. Except that with the traditional model, you can continue to use your old and outdated software for ever at no further cost.
      With this model, if you stop paying, you lose all the benefit of 4 years' payments.
    9. Re:Not Unreasonable by gunnk · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Agreed. OpenOffice does everything I need and no one even knows I'm not doing my work with MS Office. My docs look great and my spreadsheets do everything I need. I don't do many presentations ala PowerPoint, but I could do it with OpenOffice if I needed to.

      I actually understand why people stick with Windows more than I do Office. To most people Windows appears to come "free" with their computer. Office is always extra. OpenOffice is free, powerful and just as easy to use. Why pay for something when you can get the same feel and functionality for free?

      --
      Life is short: void the warranty.
    10. Re:Not Unreasonable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But if you take off your microsoft-bashing hat for a second, this isn't as stupid as it looks.
      My brain says: "Yes, it is!".
    11. Re:Not Unreasonable by pembo13 · · Score: 1

      It also has the great effect of making a person feel like they are paying X for MS-Office instead of the usual Y (X Y). And so reduces the apparent need for cheaper software. But I believe people have the right to pay for expensive software.

      --
      "Thanks for all the money you paid to us. We've used it to buy off ISO among other things" -Microsoft
    12. Re:Not Unreasonable by ArhcAngel · · Score: 1

      You obviously don't do very much small biz/home support. I still have clients who use Office 97 on their Win98 SE machines (*shudder*). The vast majority are Office XP and Windows XP SP2 and have no plans of changing anything anytime soon. The average Joe PC user will eventually move to an on-line equivalent but it's doubtful it will be office with so many free alternatives springing up. The subscription model is squarely pointed to the corporate environment where the accounting department already has to break their IT expenses into annual expenditures. Microsoft's answer for Joe PC user is MS Works ad supported office alternative.

      --
      "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K
    13. Re:Not Unreasonable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You currently pay $300 for the standard Microsoft Office 2007. No. I go to TPB and download a copy for "free".

      I rather use Google Docs for free, it does the same thing and does the job.
    14. Re:Not Unreasonable by vux984 · · Score: 1

      If all they're doing is spreading out the payment over 3-4 years, with a small premium thrown in, that's not such a bad deal. I'd happily pay a $25-50 premium on software like Office in order to receive constant updates.

      Once you are on a subscription model why would they bother with the new updates? Your paying them every month whether they release Office 2010 or not.

      MS has to release new versions right now to maintain its sales revenues.

      On a subscription model MS doesn't have to do squat to keep you paying. Sure they'll have to release token improvements from time to time to keep up appearances, and to change the format to keep competition at bay, but that's about it.

      Mark my words, if they ever get us onto a subscription model, progress WILL stagnate.

    15. Re:Not Unreasonable by odoketa · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I'm a little fuzzy on your '3-4 year' lifecycle. Looks like Office 2003 came out late Oct, 2003. We're well on our way to Oct, 2008. I will confess some places have gone to 2007 - we have not. Thus we are looking at a 5 year lifespan.

      More important, however, is the question of how the updates happen - the reason we haven't gone to 2007 isn't a licensing issue - it's training. Is MS going to force you to accept those updates? Are they going to overhaul the UI while you weren't looking?

    16. Re:Not Unreasonable by Mike1024 · · Score: 1

      These products don't usually have more than a 3-4 year life-cycle anyway, and this way instead of being stuck with a single version, you get something which improves over time. With one-off payments, Microsoft has a financial incentive to release a new version of Office every few years, and for it to have enough new features that people will upgrade. Doing so is the only way they can maintain their revenue stream.

      With a subscription-based model, you'll get the Internet Explorer 6 of software: Years without a meaningful update because there is no financial incentive to spend money improving the software.

      Five years down the road, when everyone has an Office subscription instead of a license, Ballmer will be sitting in his office with two proposals on his desk: Proposal 1 is to hire several experts in statistical computing, and overhaul the statistics routines in Office to produce consistent and correct results in areas where they currently don't. Cost: $300,000 for experts, programmers, testers, documentation. Benefit: Subscriptions stay the same, so nothing except improving customer satisfaction. Proposal 2 is to add a wizard to Powerpoint so you can set all the animated transitions in your presentation to the same style without having to modify them all manually. Cost: $30,000 for a programmer for 6 months. Benefit: No financial benefit (as with proposal 1) and a small increase in customer satisfaction.

      Which proposal would you fund, if you were a for-profit business? Which do you think Steve Ballmer would fund?
      --
      "Goodness me, how unlike the FBI to abuse the trust of the American public." -- The Onion
    17. Re:Not Unreasonable by Rutulian · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I would normally agree except for the part where you lose the ability to use the software if you stop paying. So if you diligently pay $115/yr. for 4 years ($460 total), and then decide you don't want to pay anymore, you can no longer use Office (i.e: access your files). At least if I pay $400 up front for Office, I can use it for as long as I want, out of date or not.

      The problem Microsoft has with Office is that they really want a subscription model, but they don't have subscription value to add. Think about Napster, for example. If you pay for a subscription to Napster ($13/month), you get unlimited access to all of the songs available, which is a significant savings over buying all of the music you may listen to only every once in a while. So the subscription model has value. With Office, Microsoft isn't adding any value. They're just trying to get more cash out of you.

    18. Re:Not Unreasonable by zenkonami · · Score: 1

      f all they're doing is spreading out the payment over 3-4 years, with a small premium thrown in, that's not such a bad deal. I'd happily pay a $25-50 premium on software like Office in order to receive constant updates. So if what they want is $115 annually instead of 300 at once, that's fine by me. These products don't usually have more than a 3-4 year life-cycle anyway, and this way instead of being stuck with a single version, you get something which improves over time. Until they change the terms, or significantly alter the software, or start making other software dependent on that software. This is about MS lock in disguised as a "better way of doing things." Better for Microsoft, sure, but not for the end user. That's why they ran Netscape out of town. That's why they pushed and shoved their way onto every manufacturer's computers. That's why they've had such a heavy hand influencing the hardware market to make sure things would work on Windows until Windows became the standard. They are very clever business people over at MS, but they only care about the customer's view of the product enough to hook em and reel em in. Since all the major software companies followed right along, I have little choice but to use Windows or the more expensive OS X (hardware included.)

      But if you take off your microsoft-bashing hat for a second, this isn't as stupid as it looks. I would but ever since they got to me I can't seem to get the damn thing off my head...
      --

      Do You Experiment?
    19. Re:Not Unreasonable by Charcharodon · · Score: 1
      It is unreasonable $115 dollars a year for a program that is barely different in function from the original office that came out what like 15 years ago. $10, $20, maybe $40, but not $115.

      Personally I paid a whopping $22 dollars for the Pro version of Office 2007, as part of the military's home use licensing aggreement. MS probably still made $15 dollars pure profit out of that ($5 was for shipping), even without including what the military had to pay for its license.

      All the software companies have been trying to move to a subscription based system for years, I would have no problem with that if the amount of software per dollar would actually increase, but here we are year after year having the companies coming to us for $4-5 a month each for the same crap they've been peddling for 10+ years..

      Vista should have included anti-virus, Office, and a couple of dozen games for how much it costs compared to how much its added in value.

      Anything more than $50 for Office robbery.

    20. Re:Not Unreasonable by ender- · · Score: 1

      I bought my first ever copy of Office a few months ago. Only because I got Office 2007 Ultimate [oooh, ultimate!] for $60. That's about a much as I'd ever be willing to spend on an office suite, and I will most likely be using that for the next decade.

      I guess unless the subscription model is less than $6/yr, I won't be subscribing :)

    21. Re:Not Unreasonable by SoulRider · · Score: 1

      The only problem is that you will end up paying 500 anally instead of 300. It will just be in smaller payments so it doesnt hurt as much.

    22. Re:Not Unreasonable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      More like a 10+ year life cycle. Office 2000 is still good enough to do what 99% of people need, and Office 97 is fine for 90% of people. Although, Openoffice is good enough now that anyone who buys Office now is an idiot (exception being the $60 student offer, it's probably worth that much). This plan is just taking advantage of the people who think that a car is cheap because they have low monthly payments.

    23. Re:Not Unreasonable by Qwaniton · · Score: 1

      Last time I checked, software doesn't go bad with age. I still have a computer running Windows 95 and Office 97, and it does what I want it to do just fine.

    24. Re:Not Unreasonable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, it's even more stupid than it looks. People can handle paying a lump sum up front for indefinite use of Microsoft's latest product, partly because the ads are telling them that it's much better than the version they're currently using.

      Force them to pay for it each month, though, and each month they'd begin to wonder - just a little more each time - whether it's really worth the cost when there are free alternatives to be had. Especially once they begin to run into the inevitable rage-inducing "quirks" of Office (mostly brought on by Office insisting that it knows what you want better than you do).

    25. Re:Not Unreasonable by mpeskett · · Score: 1

      What do you honestly think the chances of them letting you use one subscription on multiple computers is?

      Going by present form it'll be one subscription per computer and not easily transferable.

    26. Re:Not Unreasonable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe the feeling of it being ultra fast and efficient while being a feature-powerhouse? No matter what you ppl say, MS Office 2007's ribbon is the best thing that happened to Office GUI. Ok it's a new thing, but once I get the hang of it, I never wanna go back - and surely not to O_o - which takes ages to simply load!!

    27. Re:Not Unreasonable by Arkaine101 · · Score: 1

      If it turns out to be the same price in the end, you're better off buying. You end up with extra licenses (older versions) that you can use on additional computers. Don't need them? Gift/sell/donate them.

    28. Re:Not Unreasonable by ignavus · · Score: 1
      Don't ask people, "Why pay for something when you can get the same feel and functionality for free?"


      Ask the retailers, "Why do you sell people MS Office for $300 when you could just pre-install OpenOffice for free?"


      Answer: there is no profit in "free", and the users will probably just pirate MS Office anyway because (a) they can, and (b) that is what they are used to.


      Clever users refuse to pay for MS Office and install the free OpenOffice themselves. Even cleverer ones find a computer with *free* Ubuntu pre-installed, and save on MS Windows (prices in that link are in AUD, not USD).

      --
      I am anarch of all I survey.
    29. Re:Not Unreasonable by MojoStan · · Score: 1
      I'm not disagreeing with you (other replies have that covered), but just a nitpick...

      You currently pay $300 for the standard Microsoft Office 2007. TFA says the planned subscription service will offer the "Home and Student" version of Office, not the "standard" version. Office Home and Student 2007 (Word, Excel, PowerPoint, OneNote) costs $120 at Amazon.com and one license allows installations on up to 3 PCs per household. The $300 "standard" version ($200 upgrade price) includes Outlook.

      TFA also says the subscription bundles OneCare, which seperately costs $50 per year for up to 3 PCs. The typical Slashdot reader would probably find little or no value in OneCare, but novices might like it (especially the included phone/chat/email support).

      So for most of us, we're comparing a small recurring subscription to a larger $120 purchase that doesn't expire (but newer versions cost another $120).

      --
      TO START
      PRESS ANY KEY

      Where's the 'ANY' key? I see Esk, Kitarl, and Pig-Up...

    30. Re:Not Unreasonable by MojoStan · · Score: 1

      What do you honestly think the chances of them letting you use one subscription on multiple computers is?

      Going by present form it'll be one subscription per computer and not easily transferable.

      By present form, a subscription to OneCare can be used on up to 3 PCs. A license for Office Home and Student allows installations on up to 3 PCs. These are the two products in the "Albany" subscription service.

      I think the chances are reasonable.

      --
      TO START
      PRESS ANY KEY

      Where's the 'ANY' key? I see Esk, Kitarl, and Pig-Up...

    31. Re:Not Unreasonable by Anne+Thwacks · · Score: 1
      At the start, they will add really useful stuff that you can only get in "Albany".

      You mean like more confusing menus, and file formats that are less interchangeable with your friends?

      MS "features" are noamally things you are better off without!

      --
      Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
    32. Re:Not Unreasonable by Hyperspite · · Score: 1

      I tried out Office 2007 and yes it does feel much MUCH better and the documents it produces are very pretty! However, as I used it (to write a science paper for a class no less), I found it has many UI components that are broken. For instance, you can't easily place an image with a caption in two column format. Tables don't have the same placement options as figures. It's crazy. I should learn to use latex...

    33. Re:Not Unreasonable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are two daily tasks I do in MS Office that I can't do in Open Office:

      1. C/P cells from Excel (Calc) to Word (Writer) then convert to text.

      2. Replace a hard line break with two hard line breaks (ie. replace '^p' with '^p^p').

      Until then I will continue pirating copies of MS Office.

      If you know the secret to doing either of the two tasks I mentioned without resorting to writing your own code please share. Pirating MS Office is like sneaking peaks at your brother's girlfriend: She looks good but I may get beat and could probably do better.

    34. Re:Not Unreasonable by williamhb · · Score: 1

      Actually, let's just think about this for a second. You currently pay $300 for the standard Microsoft Office 2007.
      Actually, home and student users pay less than half that for the Home and Student Edition (which is the version Microsoft want to take to a subscription model). I've seen that advertised as cheap as US$120 from well-known retailers. Divide that by 4 years for your math, and you'd only have $30/year. I'm not totally convinced MS would be willing to price it anywhere below $50/year, at which point it'd already be more than a 66% price hike.
    35. Re:Not Unreasonable by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      But does anyone actually pay $300 for it? Students get it for much less (as do teachers, lecturers, and so on) and corporations get a big discount too. The only people who aren't eligible for any discounts are individuals who are likely to just pirate it. Or use OpenOffice.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    36. Re:Not Unreasonable by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      The corporate market is unlikely to fall for this again. Last time MS sold them on the idea of paying a flat rate for all new versions they didn't release any new versions for so long that the subscriptions cost twice as much as the flat-rate purchases would have done.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    37. Re:Not Unreasonable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So if what they want is $115 annually instead of 300 at once, that's fine by me. These products don't usually have more than a 3-4 year life-cycle anyway...

      Sure, for the first two years you are paying $115/yr. Then MS has a bad quarter, and they up the price to $150/yr. Still sounds like a good deal?

      Those are some nice documents you have there. It would be a shame if you could no longer access them.

  15. I Subscribe to OpenOffice by NeverVotedBush · · Score: 3, Informative

    Funny thing, too - it's totally free, I can download and use a copy locally, and I can use it on as many computers as I want to.

    My security is also free, is updated regularly, and is pretty secure the way I have it configured. BTW, it's Linux.

    Microsoft? Naahhhh...

  16. I hope it DOES catch on - for a while... by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 1

    I hope this doesn't catch on and become the primary distribution model.

    I hope it DOES catch on - for a while.

    It will give consumers a financial incentive to switch to FOSS - every time a bill comes due. B-)

    --
    Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
    1. Re:I hope it DOES catch on - for a while... by imamac · · Score: 1

      I hope it DOES catch on - for a while. It will give consumers a financial incentive to switch to FOSS - every time a bill comes due. B-) I genuinely hope you are right.
  17. Tired of Subscriptions by Thyamine · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I can't think I'm the only one getting tired of the subscription model for everything. I remember thinking at one point that I'm going to need to start figuring out what I can afford to have and not, simply because everything seems to be moving in that direction.

    Cable, phone, utilities all seems standard to us at this point, but now we have music subscriptions (stop paying, lose your music), radio subscriptions (love that satellite radio), game subscriptions (WoW addicts unite), and now more and more software subscriptions (I'm sorry, licensing).

    I can perhaps forgive it for something like antivirus software where you are constantly downloading updates (glad my Mac doesn't need that yet), but Office? When do they slip Windows into that model? Would you like to boot today? Your subscription has expired, please enter a valid credit card.

    --
    I will shred my adversaries. Pull their eyes out just enough to turn them towards their mewing, mutilated faces. Illyria
    1. Re:Tired of Subscriptions by edn4 · · Score: 1

      need to start figuring out what I can afford to have and not Subscriptions make that easier, because instead of paying $300 up front, you can decide to cancel the subscription after a year if you find something better or your circumstances change.
    2. Re:Tired of Subscriptions by poetmatt · · Score: 1

      Umm, no.

      Most things involving subscriptions have fees to sign up. This is like removing leasing as an option and renting to be the only option.

      The difference here is you don't have a choice, let alone that there is a monumental subscription cancellation fee (note: losing the ability to use a program completely).

      This is like WGA validation version 3.0

    3. Re:Tired of Subscriptions by Crayon+Kid · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Sad thing is, they used to have this kind of jokes all through the 90's. You know, how MS will release a floppy that doubles as a CC reader and so on. They used to be funny back then. It gets a bit chilly when you see it happening.

      --
      i ate crayons when i was a kid and now i have two braincells and the blue ones taste nicer
    4. Re:Tired of Subscriptions by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1
      The subscription model allows for a steady cash flow. Otherwise, you sell your product and now you have to go and find someone else to sell to. Not as easy as it sounds. And when your market growth has slowed down drastically (everyone who wants Offce has it) then the only way to keep that money coming in is to have that stream from your existing customers - they're hoping that all of us Office owners will buy into this.

      Look at IBM. They doing great on the stock market. Why? One, they're making money from the non-dollar denominated business that they're doing. Two, much of their business is steady stream contracts.

      Cash is king!
      - Donald Trump

    5. Re:Tired of Subscriptions by Reality+Master+201 · · Score: 1

      You know, how MS will release a floppy that doubles as a CC reader and so on.


      Floppy? What's a floppy?
    6. Re:Tired of Subscriptions by jt2377 · · Score: 0

      Wait. since when did leasing and renting is different? What kind of choice that you won't have if you lease it for a year and don't like it then you can stop the subscription. i have windows OneCare a while back and there is no cancellation fee or whatsoever. there are no cancellation fee for any software or service that i know of unless you sign a contract then yeah there is fee just like everything else in this world. you can still use OneCare even if you stop the subscription. you just won't get the update which is fair. what does WGA validation have to do with subscription? do you even understand what WGA does? What the other guy said is correct. subscription allow you to try out the software for whatever long you like and no huge up front cost like purchasing the software.

    7. Re:Tired of Subscriptions by sjames · · Score: 1

      The various pay as you go schemes make sense for electricity, gas, and water. Update subscriptions make sense as well.

      Rental of durable goods only makes sense when the value depreciates substantially over the rental period (such as cars) or where the overhead of resale plus the depreciation exceeds the amount of rent that will be paid OR the good is periodically upgraded by the lessor.

      Renting may be the only option where significant up-front money is required but not available (such as a down payment on a mortgage) even where the lessee would be financially better off buying were it possable.

      Software rental only makes sense when you're absolutely sure you have a limited need for a product and that the total rent paid will be less than the up-front price. Even then, it only makes sense when the law has been manipulated to forbid resale (literally rent seeking).

      Software depreciation is a funny thing. Except for obsolescence created by the seller through new incompatible file formats and the defects in the original product (especially security defects), software's utility value wouldn't actually depreciate. Unlike an old worn out car, an old piece of software will be able to do exactly the same things it did when new and just as reliably. The "advantage" of new and unknown security flaws rather than old and well known flaws is NOT a consumer value, it's a hidden defect that otherwise should have impacted the original valuation of the old product.

      Subscriptions do not make budgeting easier. Nothing is easier than accounting for sunk costs. Even if your income goes to zero or you decide to spend it elsewhere, you can still afford the sunk costs.

    8. Re:Tired of Subscriptions by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Floppy? What's a floppy? Your penis.

      Seriously dude, get some vi@gra already...
  18. Microsoft Albania... by matt4077 · · Score: 5, Funny

    ...the balkanization of software.

    1. Re:Microsoft Albania... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Very clever. Unfortunately, I suspect that you will hear nothing more than a loud "whoosh" in response.

  19. What Happened? by BigBlueOx · · Score: 1

    Microsoft didn't used to be so out of touch with its customers. What happened to these guys? Just when you think they can't get any stupider ...

    1. Re:What Happened? by Mongoose+Disciple · · Score: 3, Informative

      According to TFA, this is an option they're offering and doesn't replace selling Office as they currently do.

      From that perspective, I don't see this as out of touch with their customers. I'm sure a majority of the people who buy Office won't want this Albany thing, but I'll bet some do and those customers will be served better.

      Large corporations I can especially see going for this. You budget for it and forget about it. It's how they tend to roll.

    2. Re:What Happened? by MLCT · · Score: 1

      When most of the core "computer" guys who were in from the start made their millions they left. Those that took over (some of whom were always there but not able to overrule the computer guys) were the corporate whores who's only aim is to make as much money and control as much as they possibly can.

      Ironically I feel if they had implemented this model 10 years ago it likely would have been accepted and become the norm (and MS would have forever controlled office software). Introducing it now, it is likely to fail. Everyone is far more wary of jumping into the "MS abyss", certainly in my own place of work the enforcement from the in the last 6 months is standardisation on office 2003, never mind 2007 or subscription models. Attempts to strong arm this onto businesses will lead to them refusing to budge from 2003 or, even worse (from MS's perspective), jumping over to OOO.

      It was entirely predictable though - 2007 contained nothing of interest. They couldn't keep creating new glassy icons and gimmicky gui changes for ever and expecting people to pay $300 for it. A subscription model is the only way they can "secure the revenue stream". And for the corporate whores running MS, "securing the revenue stream" is all that matters - the customer is way down the list of priorities.

    3. Re:What Happened? by BigBlueOx · · Score: 3, Informative

      According to TFA this is for "Office Home" and "Office Student". Doesn't sound like it's aimed at businesses to me.
      I agree that a subscription model for businesses would make some sort of sense but this is aimed at "consumers".
      The lights are on but nobody's home.

    4. Re:What Happened? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Mmmh, no.

      Microsoft's current business model is perfect (for them) wrt large corporations: licenses that were bought don't show up on the list of things to axe when business is slow, as it's already been paid for. They just postpone the upgrade, and concentrate on recurring costs (employees, travel, newspapers and so on). Eventually Senior VP #172 gets tired of underlings asking for something their version of Word can read, it's the good end of the cycle, there's money to burn: they buy the new version.

      With subscription, software will be right up there at the top of the list of things that can be trimmed. "You mean we can save 1 megabuck *next year* by going OpenOffice? Done."

      Why do you thing it's only Office Home and Student?

  20. Once they START paying... by theolein · · Score: 5, Funny

    Given the wildly unsuccessful way that people took to subscription music services, I can see this being as successful as, say, the Zune.

    1. Re:Once they START paying... by Lewrker · · Score: 0

      Hey, the Zune became VERY successful when it started costing 40 bucks a piece and after they've thrown in an ipod for free.

  21. Uh, No It's Not... by NeverVotedBush · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I think Linux will compete by snagging more disgruntled ex-Microsoft users.

    Microsoft has really screwed up and doesn't seem to know where to go or what to do now that Vista crashed and burned. It will be hard for them to overcome the bad rap they earned on that one.

    And Linux being free means that anyone that wants to try it out just needs to download it or copy CDs from someone else. They can try it whenever they want and if they like it, they keep right on using it.

    Microsoft's days are numbered. Probably with big numbers right now, but numbered nonetheless.

    1. Re:Uh, No It's Not... by InlawBiker · · Score: 1
      Microsoft will never implode but their hubris is leading them down an expensive path. They're acting as though their monopoly is secured while all the numbers show them losing market share every year. The complexity of their OS also makes it very difficult to change from this path.

      Their products are complicated and the licensing and sales packages are complicated. I still can't tell you the difference between Vista Premium & Ultimate without looking it up.

      A subscription model is even worse. Customers hate it, and the possibilities for confusion, frustration and failure are endless.

      Meanwhile, Linux keeps becoming easier to use and Apple is still keeping it simple at one price.

    2. Re:Uh, No It's Not... by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      It used to be that people said Free Software was only free (cost) if you time was worthless. Now it's getting to the point where the major saving is not having to think about license or product activation.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
  22. Software Maintenance by jd142 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Too bad this isn't like a software maintenance plan. In those cases, you at least own whatever the current version is if you stop paying the licensing.

  23. Wait a minute... by SilverEyes · · Score: 0

    For all the alarmists out there, how is this different from what Microsoft already does...? They install a "host of services" onto your PC (bloat). Then you stop paying for it, losing the "right to use it on your PC" (which you never had to begin with, read their EULAs). This means you have a bunch of junk sitting on your box, having spent a bunch of money, for stuff you can't use. Seems like many Office+Windows experiences already out there...

    --
    Interesting.
    1. Re:Wait a minute... by calebt3 · · Score: 1

      Then you stop paying for it, losing the "right to use it on your PC" http://xkcd.com/285/
  24. so in other words by ILuvRamen · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I don't even have to read the details to bet that you need an internet connection open every single time you open Office so it can contact the licensing server. If the time limit was kept locally, that'd be too hackable. So what about laptops? I guess you can't open your word documents if there's no wifi in your hotel. That'll go over great. Btw this whole process is about 10x more hackable than what they use now.

    --
    Google's Super Secret Search Algorithm: SELECT @search_results FROM internet WHERE @search_results = 'good'
    1. Re:so in other words by alexhs · · Score: 1

      bet that you need an internet connection open every single time you open Office You don't need an internet connection at all if you get open Office on a CD :P
      --
      I have discovered a truly marvelous proof of killer sig, which this margin is too narrow to contain.
    2. Re:so in other words by gunnk · · Score: 1

      Probably not -- like much software I'm guessing you'll only need a connection for resubscribing when your current license expires and for downloading updates.

      --
      Life is short: void the warranty.
    3. Re:so in other words by rcastro0 · · Score: 1

      bet that you need an internet connection open every single time you open Office so it can contact the licensing server. If the time limit was kept locally, that'd be too hackable.

      I bet they don't need it.

      Checking the licensing server once per day (or once per use) is no more nor less hackable than checking it once per week, or per month. So I'd guess you won't need to have an open internet connection to use it. They are not that fool. Not when you don't even need an open internet connection to run Google Apps.

      And the thing about constant updates, which can be made mandatory, is that MS could wipe hacks out each and every time one is found (virus scan-like). Though they may not want to, as piracy is not completely bad for MS: if piracy were impossible OpenOffice and Google Apps would have a much greater penetration. And that in the end would bite MS back.

      --
      Quem a paca cara compra, paca cara pagará.
    4. Re:so in other words by ClippyHater · · Score: 1

      I doubt it. Once you make payment, you should be good locally--without having to contact a licensing server--until the expiration date of that payment.

  25. I believe this because I think it's already real by gelfling · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I have a legitimate fully paid for version of MS Office 2003 that absolutely will NOT install a single MS Update, ever. And it hasn't for more than a year. I suspect this is a stealth version of something like that where MS determines who gets what and when.

    I'm not thrilled with the snappiness of the performance of Open Office but clearly this is the way I will go the next time around.

    Other than XP, MS Office and some tools related to scanner and digitizer tablet hardware (which is essentially free once you buy the hardware), I have cost free software on all my machines.

    Freespire (Ubuntu) here I come!

  26. GOOGLE DOCS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Google docs ftw (hosted and now it is also desktop app)

  27. Pushing more people away? by Iphtashu+Fitz · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I've already pretty much decided to never use Windows again once I can no longer run XP on the two systems I have it installed on at home. I use a Mac at work to manage a number of linux & solaris systems. Nobody in my department uses Windows. I also know more family members & friends who are perfectly happy with Windows XP and have no desire whatsoever to upgrade to Vista. They're also perfectly happy with the versions of Office, etc. that they currently have. If MS really tries to force people to switch to a rental model for their software I can only see it alienating more of their customers and convincing them to look to Macs & linux systems a a cost-effective replacement.

  28. Re:This will be teh death of MacroSuck(tm) by CowboyNealOption · · Score: 3, Funny

    I stopped reading at the part where you talked about their suppository continuing to inch upwards. I don't care how great a piece of software is, but that is a definite no-go. Ouch.

  29. And thus... by mdm-adph · · Score: 1

    ...it begins.

    (Cue "DUHN DUHN DUHNNNN" music.)

    --
    It is by my will alone my thoughts acquire motion; it is by the juice of the coffee bean that the thoughts acquire speed
    1. Re:And thus... by xaxa · · Score: 1

      ...it begins.

      (Cue "DUHN DUHN DUHNNNN" music.) That's the "something bad is about to happen" music, you need the "the world is about to be a better place" music. Maybe the piece with the metal things making ping-plink-ping noises, the "new dawn" wind effect and deer gaily running around in the background. Underneath a rainbow, of course.
  30. Re:I believe this because I think it's already rea by Colonel+Korn · · Score: 1

    I've never run any tests, but to me OO feels pretty speedy in a Linux environment but pokey under Windows. Is this psychological or does MS just not play nice with OO code?

    --
    "I zero-index my hamsters" - Willtor (147206)
  31. Re:This will be teh death of MacroSuck(tm) by NemosomeN · · Score: 1

    Why are you talking about suppositories anyway?

    --
    I hate grammar Nazi's.
  32. More agile perhaps? by Com2Kid · · Score: 3, Informative

    One of the underlying goals of Agile software is to get away from the "big number release" type of mentality that leads to unhealthy software development practices (why worry about memory consumption when the product isn't go to ship for another 2 years? ...) and instead move developers into a mindset that their software should almost constantly be of ship quality.

    Agile development also allows the quality of the software to be under constant incremental improvement. But this has a downside as well: it becomes very hard to pick a point in time to stop releasing patches and instead tell customers "now you have to buy a new version", especially since the next version that the company releases is "just" another incremental improvement over the previous release.

    So basically agile development practices can spell death for the "Shiny New Version" business model, and thus an alternative revenue stream needs to be found.

    Agile software allows developers to consistently and continuously release incrementally improved versions of an application. It therefore makes sense for companies to continuously pay incremental amounts for use of that software.

    Selling the concept of "it will get better over time" to who ever is making business purchasing decisions may not be easy, but in the end, if some sales person can pull it off, it will be to everyone's benefit.

    Customers will be able to have a more direct and immediate interaction with software companies, and software companies will be able to practice the software development methodologies that they KNOW they should be practicing.

    Note in my defense:
    Some people may take offense that agile software means no more big new versions, but I'd argue that it feels intuitively 'wrong' to fix a software bug that is annoying many users, but is too low priority to make the cut for a service pack, and then sit around knowing that users will not get to see this trivial fix for years, just because of the common business model that is used to sell big box software.

    Disclaimer: I'm a Microsoft employee (been on /. a lot longer than @ MS!), everything I say is my own opinion and does not reflect the opinions of Microsoft.

    (Besides, I've been here under a year and I work in mobile compilers!)

    1. Re:More agile perhaps? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      IMHO Microsoft is entirely incapable of implementing this agile software process that you speak of. They would need to fire all their mid-level managers, software architects, and programmers and hire entirely new ones. That's the only way they'll ever get rid of the whole big corporate mentality that is the origin of their bloated software development model. Taking the existing bureaucracy that MS has and shifting it to an agile model is neigh on impossible.

    2. Re:More agile perhaps? by alexborges · · Score: 1

      Hey.... many MS-Devs are slashdotters. I dont think we have anything against them, and certaintly nothing against you.

      So chill and congrats on your great job at a very rich enterprise. Hope you do well.

      Having said that.... well... ive already posted my own mind in my own comment, thank you very much.

      --
      NO SIG
    3. Re:More agile perhaps? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The last thing in the world that I want is to use a product like Microsoft Word from Office 2000 and, after getting used to it's UI, having a whole new UI pushed out to me unexpectedly (like Word 2007). That's what your "agile" development model would eventually force on people. Some project manager at MS decides they want to change around the UI so in using the "agile" method you describe, an incremental update suddenly forces me to have to relearn the entire application? No thanks! Sounds to me like MS is losing what little touch they once had with their end users.

    4. Re:More agile perhaps? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hey.... many MS-Devs are slashdotters. I dont think we have anything against them, and certaintly nothing against you. I do. They have knowingly and wittingly made themselves part of the problem.

      So chill and congrats on your great job at a very rich enterprise. Hope you do well. I do not.
    5. Re:More agile perhaps? by mR.bRiGhTsId3 · · Score: 1

      Does this necessarily mean agility? After all, they can charge you every month for 3 years for the same version, and then just release another big major version bump. The cycle continues... Sure they could release updates frequently, but something tells me they aren't going to.

    6. Re:More agile perhaps? by sricetx · · Score: 1

      "Agile development" is the biggest load of crap out there, IMHO.

    7. Re:More agile perhaps? by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 1

      "Agile development" is the biggest load of crap out there, IMHO.

      Yeah. Back when I was doing "agile development", my teachers called it "undirected hacking". I think I'm going to start playing video games at work and call it "Utilitarian Computing" since it makes me happy.

      --
      Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
    8. Re:More agile perhaps? by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      You might have not noticed, but Microsoft is actively pushing Agile, and particularly Scrum, lately. It's fairly visible for us Windows developers who keep an eye on their events, blogs etc.

    9. Re:More agile perhaps? by JohnFluxx · · Score: 1

      Undirected hacking can be a good thing. There's always something that needs fixing/improving, so why not just go ahead and fix/improve it, rather than having to follow a specific plan?

      You can add a bit of structure by prioritizing bug reports (to make sure boring but important bugs/features are fixed/added).

    10. Re:More agile perhaps? by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 1

      (I still do undirected hacking with the help of Bugzilla, but that would have ruined the joke. Unless you're my boss. In which case, I'm doing that ISO-approved engineering process I told you about that one day. Yeah.

      --
      Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
  33. The Onecare tie-in is cute. by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I think the connection to Onecare is an interesting touch. Microsoft, among other "enterprise" software types, has had fair success getting corporate customers paying for subscription or quasi-subscription products for a while now(Software Assurance, anything with a mandatory support contract, some site-licence flavors, etc.); but the idea rubs individual users badly. Even if the economics are actually favorable, software with a self-destruct system just doesn't feel right. People like owning stuff.

    Antivirus, though, is the closest thing to an exception(well, that and MMORPGs). People are neither happy nor efficient about it; but they often do end up paying for their subscription.

    Connecting a product whose subscription feels "natural"(virus signatures are a service, and are pay per unit time) with a product whose subscription feels "artificial"(Office suites can be priced as services; but nothing about them makes them so) is an interesting tactic. I wonder if it will work.

    Microsoft has wanted subscription software for years, so this isn't too surprising; but it may well have gained urgency from the push toward really, really cheap computers. Full upfront software cost is a hard sell on cheap hardware; but you might be able to make it palatable by stretching it into a subscription(plus, there will finally be a way to exterminate those pesky Office 97 users!).

    The idea makes me a bit nervous, though, because it points to a model of computer use very, very similar to today's cellphone model. Cheap hardware, low upfront cost; but continual, tightly controlled, nickel and diming throughout the life of the product. Unfortunately, for all the progress they have achieved, cellphones are a really miserable lesson in why the openness of the PC world is so vital.

    1. Re:The Onecare tie-in is cute. by nurb432 · · Score: 1

      *snip*
      The idea makes me a bit nervous, though, because it points to a model of computer use very, very similar to today's cellphone model. Cheap hardware, low upfront cost; but continual, tightly controlled, nickel and diming throughout the life of the product. Unfortunately, for all the progress they have achieved, cellphones are a really miserable lesson in why the openness of the PC world is so vital. Lets take that one step further, where the software companies ( and telcos ) subsidize these new 'data terminals' ( plus universal wireless connections ) to the point where they are cost free to the end user.

      You just wander around and pick up a 'pad' and login to get your stuff that you subscribe to. No login, the pad is useless to you. Nothing is stored on the device, so they become more like a pack of sticky notes to be left laying around anywhere.

      Perhaps even extend it to 'always on' pads, where their processing power is shared across the network. One huge processing cluster you tap into when needed from anywhere ( if you have a paid up subscription that is ).

      --
      ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    2. Re:The Onecare tie-in is cute. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Antivirus, though, is the closest thing to an exception

      Except, I use AntiVir, a free Anti-virus that "annoys" me every few hours to purchase the full version to stop annoying me.



      It's pretty good and not annoying enough to bother. I do wish I could generate revenue for them outside of having to directly pay them, outside of loading my system is adverts.

    3. Re:The Onecare tie-in is cute. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But could even Microsoft afford this? How cheap would hardware have to be for Microsoft to be able to subsidize it?

    4. Re:The Onecare tie-in is cute. by SCAMT · · Score: 1

      It just bugs me and reminds me of the comments that surrounded OneCare when it came out. In other words, microsoft was charging for insecure software and then charging again to fix the vulns that shouldn't have been there to begin with. Great business model. Besides, I've never seen much that caused me to believe that OneCare could do more than recognize a small percentage of malware out there.

    5. Re:The Onecare tie-in is cute. by MojoStan · · Score: 1

      Antivirus, though, is the closest thing to an exception Except, I use AntiVir, a free Anti-virus that "annoys" me every few hours to purchase the full version to stop annoying me.

      It's pretty good and not annoying enough to bother. I do wish I could generate revenue for them outside of having to directly pay them, outside of loading my system is adverts.

      I can't tell if you know about AVG Anti-Virus Free Edition and avast! Home Edition, but these two free (for non-commercial/home use) products don't "nag" you to buy their non-free versions. They get mentioned all the time on Slashdot.

      Both products auto-update, provide real-time protection, and have much smaller footprints than the typical bloatware subscription-based "security suites" that are preinstalled on many PCs. I personally use (and recommend to novices) AVG because, unlike avast!, it doesn't require a yearly free registration. OTOH, I've read that avast! offers more control/customization.

      I'd never heard of AntiVir. If know about AVG and avast!, is AntiVir better?

      --
      TO START
      PRESS ANY KEY

      Where's the 'ANY' key? I see Esk, Kitarl, and Pig-Up...

    6. Re:The Onecare tie-in is cute. by nurb432 · · Score: 1

      Since they are basically dumb terminals with wifi and a LCD screen, i bet pretty cheap.

      --
      ---- Booth was a patriot ----
  34. God, what have we done to deserve this? by alexborges · · Score: 3, Insightful

    You have to like getting fucked by a monopoly to BUY any kind of microsoft product.

    You have to be incredebly stupid, and still a total masochist, to even think about RENTING it.

    Jeesus, please save us from all this ignorance.

    --
    NO SIG
  35. QFT by Weaselmancer · · Score: 4, Informative

    you can renew your subscription or even use any of a number of free solutions (OpenOffice)

    This bears repeating.

    --
    Weaselmancer
    rediculous.
    1. Re:QFT by Tibor+the+Hun · · Score: 5, Funny

      This bears repeating.

      Thats an annoying bear.

      --
      If you don't know what AltaVista is (was), get off my lawn.
    2. Re:QFT by NeverVotedBush · · Score: 1

      I thought it was beers that were worth repeating?

  36. Occational User by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This could be nice for individuals who only use the software occationally. That way you would only need to activate for a month here and there and hopefully save on having to buy the whole package.

    Still, I'd rather use OO.o, as I rarely use the office package, and its free to use.

  37. This really isn't so bad... by grahamd0 · · Score: 1

    If their prices are reasonable this could prove to be a much better value for some of their existing customers, and at the same time provide a great reason for their other customers to look into OpenOffice.

    Everybody wins. Go Microsoft!

    1. Re:This really isn't so bad... by poetmatt · · Score: 1

      I'm humored you managed to use reasonable and Microsoft in the same sentence!

      Nothing like not even owning something that you pay for at the same rate as previous. Yes, that sounds like a good idea.

    2. Re:This really isn't so bad... by grahamd0 · · Score: 1

      Nothing like not even owning something that you pay for at the same rate as previous. Yes, that sounds like a good idea.

      I didn't say I was going to buy it. I said it could potentially provide a better value for some portion of Microsoft's existing customer base.

      No one "owns" any Microsoft software now (except Microsoft), so the people that license it aren't losing anything they haven't already given up.

      This is just another option for their existing customers, but obviously providing an option that you wouldn't pick is wrong.

    3. Re:This really isn't so bad... by poetmatt · · Score: 1

      This was not ad hominem but I guess you are not familiar with sarcasm/not defending a position that was never taken. I was never equating this to you.

      However, if a product that was X dollars before, is now X dollars a month, how is it more valuable after a the price is now beyond the old version? In order for this model to work they would have to drop support for all older versions of their programs. Otherwise nobody has a reason to want more than say, office 2003.

  38. Re:This will be teh death of MacroSuck(tm) by Cro+Magnon · · Score: 1

    Why are you talking about suppositories anyway?


    Well, we ARE talking about Microsoft.
    --
    Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
  39. Re:Maximum PayTard by Tibor+the+Hun · · Score: 1

    Hey man, did you get a permaban, or is someone actively downmodding you? And why?

    --
    If you don't know what AltaVista is (was), get off my lawn.
  40. Get Less for More! FAIL. by inTheLoo · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    Most of the services you are touting are already provided or are more generous for previous versions. Free updates? by most reasonable software vendors, yes. Install on more than one computer? Not the subscription model. Price? Well, if I was dumb enough to pay the full $400 for M$ Office and installed it on four computers, I would not feel as raped and I'd get to keep using it as long as the computers are bearable and I'm not sick of rebuilding them. Or ... I could just use Open Office and get something with zero restrictions at no cost. The subscription model is going to fail them because they are competing with free by trying to chisel every last nickel out of their customers.

    --
    No calls now, I'm ...
  41. Purple Kool-aid or plague? by harvey+the+nerd · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Don't do it. It spreads the "arbitrarily changing format blackhole disease."
    I've been happy with OpenOffice for several years while MS Office has produced interesting, and embarrassing, format failures between editions. One example, on a Vista laptop, tried with both Office 2003 and 2007, failed to accurately render many company Powerpoint slides that had worked with Powerpoint 2003 on XP, for important meetings. As much as one would like to dismiss MS Office users as drinking Purple Kool-Aid, a self curing problem, recognizing them as plague spreaders would be closer to the mark.

    1. Re:Purple Kool-aid or plague? by the+brown+guy · · Score: 1

      dismiss MS Office users as drinking Purple Kool-Aid
      Hey! I know plently of black people who don't use office and are perfectly content with Open Office. Racial fucking profiling is rampant down there eh?
      --
      Orbis terrarum est non altus satis
  42. Future Malware. by inTheLoo · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    Would you like to boot today? Your subscription has expired, please enter a valid credit card.

    You can imagine the mechanism will be hijacked right away and your credit card details will go to some server in Albania. Not that that's much worse than your Microsoft set of subscriptions is now.

    --
    No calls now, I'm ...
  43. Everyone say it along with me by 4thAce · · Score: 1

    Code-named Albany
    Microsoft Spitzer
    --
    Inventor of the LOLbalrog meme.
  44. Microsoft tax. by jellomizer · · Score: 1

    Consider Albany being the capital of NY, one of the most taxed states. All those taxes go to Albany. It is a microsoft tax

    --
    If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
  45. OpenOffice.org - get it today! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    OpenOffice.org is a free, open source, cross-platform office suite available for a number of different computer operating systems. It supports the ISO standard OpenDocument Format (ODF) for data interchange as its default file format, as well as Microsoft Office '97-2003 formats, among many others.

    You can use it whenever you want, wherever you want, for how long you want, all for free. Nobody is going to take it away from you.

    http://www.openoffice.org/
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenOffice.org

  46. "always up-to-date aspect of the service" by AlHunt · · Score: 2, Insightful

    >"There is a customer segment that really enjoys this always-on,
    >always up-to-date aspect of the service," Microsoft group product
    > manager Bryson Gordon said.

    Indeed we do. We're called Ubuntu users. The little orange icon lets us know when ANY of our programs have updates available and then DOESN'T pester the crap out of us if we don't install them right away.

    And our subscriptions are always paid up.

    --
    1 in 4 Maine children in struggle with hunger.
    1. Re:"always up-to-date aspect of the service" by Mr.+Beatdown · · Score: 1

      Oh, SNAP!

      --
      My fellow Americans, let's restore the death penalty for child rapists. Let's do it . . . for the children.
  47. Nice computer ya' got there... by querist · · Score: 1

    I can't believe no one else has said this one yet...

    The obligatory:

    "Nice computer ya' got there. It'd be a shame if anything happened to it."

    Selling security updates as a SERVICE? It may be legal. It may make good business sense and maximize returns to stockholders, but dyn bach, it's unethical in my book.

  48. Re:I believe this because I think it's already rea by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 1

    I have a legitimate fully paid for version of MS Office 2003 that absolutely will NOT install a single MS Update, ever. And it hasn't for more than a year.
    Odd... Until last year I still ran an ancient version of Office (95 or 98 I think), but last year the Genuine Advantage thingie offered me a free upgrade to Office 2007. I was a bit suspicious about some malware on my computer offering me a bogus, virus ridden version, but it turned out to be all legit.

    I did find that the most important change is that the menus got all confusing. For the rest, Outlook still does a piss-poor job at matching names in the address book, Word still can't handle bulleted lists very well and stupidly still hasn't "paste as unformatted text" as the default, and VBA is still about as non-complete and non-orthogonal as it gets. Still, it was nice of MS to offer...
    --
    If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
  49. Software Nostra! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Actually, the Mafia starting using this as a business model long ago. As long as users kept paying for the subscription, they were entitled to the latest versions of Bodily Functionality. Once they stop paying, they lose the right to use any version of Kneecaps, Arms, or Legs.

  50. Re:Maximum PayTard by calebt3 · · Score: 1

    He has a reputation for being a rather... rabid Microsoft-hater. He's getting better, but some people still don't like him. I don't think that the inventive use of words like "Microtards" is helping, either.

  51. Subscription based services. by ZenDragon · · Score: 1

    This has been in the works for a long time. They announced this several years ago in fact. I think its a good idea for businesses, as the cost would be associated direcly with the amount of people that use it within an office instead of buying a ton of licences that are hard to manage and may not even get used. It would allow a user to access the full office suite at home using the same subscription, which I could see some use in. Obviously it would have to be reasonably priced.

    I do not think this will fly at all in the consumer market, however. If MS tries to get people on subscription based services the will be forcing the entire market to search for an alternative. The downloads of OpenOffice for windows will jump 1000 fold in a matter of weeks, or they will see the same thing they saw with vista where 90% of the market is using the old version several years after the new versions release.

    1. Re:Subscription based services. by vulpinemac · · Score: 1

      I think its a good idea for businesses, as the cost would be associated direcly with the amount of people that use it within an office instead of buying a ton of licences that are hard to manage and may not even get used.



      I would argue this viewpoint because it wouldn't be associated with the number of users, but rather the number of copies the business feels it needs. And if for some reason the company missed a payment or decided to take some other route, all documentation made within this system would become useless and potentially a catastrophic loss for the corporation.

      Microsoft introduced this concept originally with Win XP saying that since they were introducing new versions of the OS every three years, 'subscribing' to updates up front would save them money down the road when it came time to implement the next version. Instead, it took MS over 5 years and the massive outlay made by those corporations gave them 0 ROI. In other words, they paid for versions they never received.

      Why would anyone, corporate or individual, subject themselves to such blatant theft again?
  52. Cost Benefit Analysis by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Let me see, let's crunch the numbers [in open office mind you]

    1. Purchase for roughly 300.00
    2. Resale Value roughly 150.00 [based on Microsoft Office 2003]
    3. Price Of Service Packs [Free, but add in internet connection costs]
    4. IRR [Internal Rate of Return] > 0%

    Rent:

    1. Renting Price X
    2. Resale/Salvage Value 0
    3. Adding Price of Internet Connection to Receive Updates: 30-35/Mo
    4. IRR [internal Rate of Return] 0%

    Analysis:

    Depends on what your MARR [Minimum Acceptable Rate of Return is]. If it's negative, go ahead and rent software. If it's positive, then go ahead and buy it.

  53. It Will Solve Piracy by Nom+du+Keyboard · · Score: 1

    This will solve piracy for Microsoft. An idea this dumb, with so many free alternatives out there, won't be worth the effort to pirate.

    --
    "It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
  54. Could it be..... by hyades1 · · Score: 1

    .....that this "perpetual pay" model is Microsoft's thank you to those nice ISO people for adopting OOXML?

    --
    I've calculated my velocity with such exquisite precision that I have no idea where I am.
  55. Mainframe hosted apps by nurb432 · · Score: 1

    Soooo, they weren't so evil after-all.

    It isn't much difference to what they ( and other companies, just to be fair ) do to enterprise customers already.

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
  56. Get All Your Updates for Free by Nom+du+Keyboard · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Did anybody think about this updates for free aspect? It took MS 5 years to update XP to Vista. You could have 5 years of non-existent Office updates given Microsoft's recent track record -- but they'll all be for free!

    --
    "It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
  57. they can go ahead and keep that by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    especially if it sucks as much as office 2007 (does anyone like the new UI in office... I mean anyone?)

    I'm not going to give them my cc every month for the pleasure of typing a document.

    I have office installed just cause my g/f is use to it and outlook and I haven't felt like forcing the issue and having her move to openoffice and thunderbird.

    personally I love thunderbird and haven't used outlook for over 2years now.

  58. CEOs will love it by uspsguy · · Score: 1

    I see my company buying into something like that in a flash. Predictable, fixed costs for software over the lifecycle of a desktop machine. No worring about huge, expensive version upgrades and all the cost and installation headaches that go along with them. The luxury of being able to plan hardware refresh on a stable schedule. CEOs,CFOs, and CIOs should love it.

    --
    Profanity - The sign of a small mind trying to express itself.
    1. Re:CEOs will love it by Todd+Knarr · · Score: 1

      And all the joys of having parts of your software upgraded to versions that aren't compatible with other business-critical applications, with no warning and no opportunity to delay the upgrade. Congratulations. Your salespeople can't pursue contracts because their contact and CRM software was broken by the upgrade. Several critical applications are dead in the water because the documents coming into them aren't in a format they understand anymore. And the timecard system and payroll software aren't working, and you have 7 days to get this fixed or people aren't going to get their paychecks and that's gonna open a whole new can of worms with the state government (not to mention both state and Federal tax people when the withholding payment doesn't get made).

      There's a reason Microsoft had to quick-like create SUS and give local admins a way to control updates.

  59. Re:I believe this because I think it's already rea by calebt3 · · Score: 1

    Or it could be less motivation to do a good job porting to Windows.

  60. What? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    "M$"? "raped"?

    Oh wait, this is a twitter sockpuppet account. One of five. Nevermind.

  61. Re:Maximum PayTard by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 1

    If your karma gets bad enough, your posts wind up with a default -1 score.

  62. Re:Maximum PayTard by dedazo · · Score: 1

    Having multiple accounts that shill each other will normally result in that, though the twitter account itself fell out of grace of the mods a long time ago. For the same toxic bullshit he thinks is promoting free software somehow.

    --
    Web2.0: I love when people Flickr my cuil and digg my boingboing until my google is reddit and I start to yahoo
  63. Renting software? by vulpinemac · · Score: 1

    Wasn't this concept already proven as an abysmal failure by the RealPlayer? Who wants to 'rent' the software that they will be relying on for their documentation for the rest of their lives?

    This just makes me ever happier that I don't use any Microsoft software on a regular basis.

  64. Microsoft headed for disaster by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I don't mind the idea of Microsoft sinking itself, but I do mind since our application runs on Windows. These people are just plain stupid. They already have the world. They want more. When Gates worried about the company that should bring down Microsoft, he shouldn't have worried about some as yet unknown upstart in a garage or Google. He should worry about his own people determined to kill the Goose that laid the Golden Egg.

  65. Hello? Data for Ransome Anyone? by mpapet · · Score: 4, Interesting

    free to bring those files ... or use the long existing free "Viewer" versions

    But, not edit them or otherwise legitimately salvage your data.

    It's easy to brush the idea that Microsoft holds your data hostage. Just don't think beyond your current PC. It doesn't bother you, but some of us WANT to open our children's mishmash of pictures and letters when we are old and gray.

    This is the classic strategy where dumb money thinks it's wise to pay month-to-month.

    I forsee upgrade problems that require extra support that one must pay for among a whole slew of gotchas.

    --
    http://www.maxineudall.com/2010/02/should-economists-be-sued-for-malpractice.html
  66. What's the big deal? by SpacePunk · · Score: 1

    Transgaming has been doing this with Cedega for years.

  67. Adobe's not far behind... by Ralph+Spoilsport · · Score: 1
    There's all kinds of rumblings from Palo Alto about subscription based Creative Suite systems for large institutions, esp. schools.

    RS

    --
    Shoes for Industry. Shoes for the Dead.
  68. Re:I believe this because I think it's already rea by gelfling · · Score: 1

    On the same machine, MS Office, which loads a bunch of gorp at boottime takes 2-3 seconds at most to open the first blank Writer page. OO will take up to 10. I think if I used the fast start option I'd see something like parity though.

  69. Unfortunate Tie-in by mdielmann · · Score: 1

    If I've learned one thing from watching Law & Order, Albany and Prison go hand-in-hand.

    --
    Sure I'm paranoid, but am I paranoid enough?
  70. why can't it be more like car payments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    keep paying until you cover the cost of the product and/or once you stop paying (after a set value) you get to keep one of the versions (most likely not the most current version). Another option would be to get a large discount when you stop paying and choise to buy out the product. This way you walk away with something that you had paid for.

  71. Re:I believe this because I think it's already rea by pembo13 · · Score: 1

    I load MS Office on a foreign computer every now and then, but haven't noticed it that much snappier than OO.org? How much faster is it? relatively speaking.

    --
    "Thanks for all the money you paid to us. We've used it to buy off ISO among other things" -Microsoft
  72. Equivalences. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    twitter is to free software what this is to martial arts movies.

  73. I prefer technet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And the activation keys don't expire.

  74. Re:Not reasonable by b4dc0d3r · · Score: 1

    The last subscription model they went to was for windows upgrades. And to beat the "contract" they rushed Vista out the door - late and crappy. If they already have a steady stream coming in, there's no motivation.

    Also, remember all the people who thought napster would be a good idea - keep paying until you don't want it, then it stops working. Not exactly the same thing, but I think some consumers will remember this type of stuff.

    Businesses on the other hand get to lease software instead of buying - always attractive, since they don't have an initial outlay. And if your employees get reduced, you can reduce your software spending in line. That's the only reason this will work, and it will drag consumers along with it until they wise up in large numbers.

  75. some stuff, just faster by RiotingPacifist · · Score: 1

    Isnt this how microsoft always ship office, you have to pay $200 every x years so that your documents can be read by the rest of the people in your company. But now there using a standard they need a new model, so it'll be $20 every x months.
    (it also allows them to keep messing with the competition now theyve got so good at decoding .docs)

    --
    IranAir Flight 655 never forget!
  76. Let's point out... by symbolset · · Score: 1

    That you don't "own" the documents you create with "their" software, either.

    You only license access to them, for a limited time.

    --
    Help stamp out iliturcy.
  77. All I have to say is ... by quixote9 · · Score: 1
  78. Don't forget... by symbolset · · Score: 1

    The Enterprise version of your Linux Server OS comes with unlimited client licenses . As many clients can access the server as it's capable of serving. Also the Linux Datacenter Edition comes with unlimited CPU licenses, so you can run it on a server with as many processors as you like.

    Sure, the server Enterprise version costs four times as much and the Datacenter version eight times as much, but when the base price is zero that's not too bad.

    --
    Help stamp out iliturcy.
  79. Ah yes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Paytard. twitter's new favorite word. Also applicable to 11-year old children. Don't use "freetard" though, that's idiotic.

  80. The wrong foot forward towards a managed desktop? by dacut · · Score: 1

    I think I can see where this may have made sense at some level. But, like all good ideas, this probably got corrupted in a committee.

    First, forget that you're a geek. You just need a computer for the basics: e-mailing friends and colleagues, writing papers for school/work, a presentation every other month or so, and maybe a spreadsheet for crunching numbers for the boss (or keeping tabs on your CD collection -- your geek friends keep telling you about how this is a horrible misuse and you should put together a database, but, hey, it works). Oh, and a game or two: FreeCell and Sudoku.

    I have a number of friends and relatives who fit this profile. More often than not, they can't even keep this working as expected: their systems are littered with every virus known to the virus checkers out there and then some; the free version of Norton on their system expired years ago (but is still happily hogging resources, too). The system came with Windows 98, but a friend "who's good with computers" tossed a copy of XP Home from his system on there. Those WGA messages are real, which also means security updates haven't been applied since the first season of American Idol.

    Many of these folks would gladly shell out $25/month if it meant that their computer "just worked." They don't care that they don't "own" the rest of the software on their machine as long as they can get their work done.

    The vendor -- in this case, Microsoft -- sees an appealing monetary model here. That's $300/year per customer. Compared to the bargain rates they charge HP, Dell, etc., for XP and Office (say, $100-$200?) and a three-year lifespan of a system, this is a huge cash cow.

    However, they're forgetting something: the system has to "just work" if the customers are going to buy this. Without severely tightening down what can be done to the OS (and risking likely anti-trust issues with that), this will involve a lot of tech support to get it working. The more likely alternative: frustrated customers who don't see any reason to continue paying what really amounts to a monthly tax for the same old broken computer.

  81. Go for it! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'll watch.

  82. All rejoice by iAlta · · Score: 0

    ... for this is the first step in the fall of Microsoft!

  83. Hit 'em when they're down by NetSettler · · Score: 1

    they are entitled to the latest versions of the products. Once they stop paying, they lose the right to use any version."

    Ah, so when you lose your job and you need to rely on your computer to write resumes or even to build a business that might bring you revenue again, and you can least afford to pay for it, they can't be gracious. Kind of the "fairweather friend" approach. Mmmmm. Good.

    I wonder how long it will be before you can buy a more expensive subscription during the good times (when you can spare the extra dough) in order to get the special extra added bonus feature that if you can prove you've lost your job, you'll not be brutally cut off as long as you e-mail once a week offering digitally signed proof that you've been out faithfully looking for a job so you can pay for more subscription soon... and, of course, promising you won't even consider those freeware alternatives.

    --

    Kent M Pitman
    Philosopher, Technologist, Writer

  84. Anonymous Coward by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    AV software still works if you don't pay for the subscription, it just doesn't get updated. Yes, it may be worth less without the latest sigs, but it's not entirely worthless.

  85. Preload it by symbolset · · Score: 1

    Using Preload your linux apps can be preloaded much like Vista's SuperFetch. Start times will go down by about half with larger apps you use a lot. You can also use the tips below. People on Ubuntu Forums seem to like it. Preload is in most libraries so you would install it the same way you install all your free software.

    On Windows you may want to try these helpful tips.

    In either case you've saved a rental fee.

    --
    Help stamp out iliturcy.
  86. Something Levitra can't cure... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Microsoft has an incurable case of medusanitis. I predict everything they touch turns to stone for the foreseeable future until they are reduced to an SCO-like non entity. I just hope I live long enough to pop the cork when it happens.

  87. Great, for those of us who live in Albany/Troy by FliesLikeABrick · · Score: 3, Funny

    Once Albany populates the search engine indexes, it is going to be really fun looking for things locally!

    "Albany window repair"
    "Microsoft Albany repair corrupt files <technet.microsoft.com>"

    "Hot dogs in Albany"
    "Albany is about as useful as a hot dog dropped on the floor <technet.microsoft.com>"

    "Used Cars in Albany"
    "Microsoft Chairman Gates is now selling used cars after the failure of Microsoft Albany <slashdot.org>"

  88. The economy will grind to a halt! by core_dump_0 · · Score: 1

    Do you think the Microsoft-dependent economy can handle subscription services? Between this and Windows 7, if every person has to pay mandatory fees to use their own computer(s), we'd see one computer per household, and much less computers in the workplace. Getting crucial things done would be much more difficult, including everything from home shopping and banking to doing your job at businesses of all sizes.

    "Linux on the desktop" will never happen. It's not about how easy or hard Linux is for the average Joe. It's because ten years ago, it was marketed in regular bookstores when it was even less stable, less compatible, and less mature.

    And Mac still refuses to lower their prices. If Mac ditched the "cult following" elitist mentality and lowered their prices to compete with Dell et al., Windows would be DEAD.

    If you think the economy/stock market/gas prices/gold/oil/inflation/unemployment is bad NOW, wait two years when this stuff goes into effect. It will be WAY worse!

  89. Re:This will be teh death of MacroSuck(tm) by Anne+Thwacks · · Score: 1
    Why are you talking about suppositories anyway?

    While he was in the Texas School Book Suppository, I was on the Grassy Knoll.

    --
    Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
  90. MS always wanted to go subscription for everything by thetoadwarrior · · Score: 1

    This is no surprise. On the subject of the HD-DVD and Blu-Ray battle Gates said it doesn't matter because everything will move online soon. The subscription model is shit. It's bad enough software companies get away with writing up EULAs that basically say everything will always be your fault and you can't even read it until you buy and open the software. But if you disagree and try to return it then you're labeled a thief. The whole software model is set up around fucking the consumer over and this just takes it one step further. Why can't people realise this and start standing up for their rights rather than be a bunch of terrorist fearing sheep?

  91. Re:I believe this because I think it's already rea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    OO takes loooooooong time to load. I run Office 97 on my other AND OLDER machine -- it loads instantly.

    Frankly I don't understand all the talks about "updates" to Office. What updates? Every single feature that I need already was implemented in 97 :). Why improve already good product? in fact, not just good, but almost perfect, as far as I'm concerned.

    This whole idea of updates make developers sloppy. Who needs to deliver quality code the first time, when you always can update it later?

  92. They already have. by SEMW · · Score: 1

    But hold on...who says they're going to MAKE any viewers for the new version of Office. 10 seconds of Googling would have shown you that they've already made them.

    Word viewer, Excel viewer, Powerpoint viewer.
    --
    What's purple and commutes? An Abelian grape.
    1. Re:They already have. by penguin_dance · · Score: 1

      And what part of...

      This download applies to the following Office applications:

      Microsoft Office Excel 2007
      Microsoft Office Excel 2003
      Microsoft Excel 2002
      Microsoft Excel 2000
      Microsoft Excel 97 ...did you miss?

      I'm not referring to the current, previous viewers. We're talking about a NEW version of Office not yet released. Also a viewer does not mean you'll be able to do anything, BUT view the documents.

      --
      If you've never been modded as "flamebait" or "troll," you've never tried to argue a minority viewpoint here!
  93. You've got to be joking.... by r_jensen11 · · Score: 1

    Code-named Albany, the product has a single installer that puts Office Home and Student, OneCare, as well as a host of Windows Live services, onto a user's PC Great, just what we need: more services running. MS kicked up a lot of fuss when computers they certified couldn't run Vista as the customers expected. By the time Albany comes out, computers are going to need stickers saying that they can run it too. Perhaps a separate sticker for saying that the computer can run both Albany and Vista....
  94. No NO and No by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Heck No (at least for me personally)! This could finally be the straw that broke the camel's back and convinces governments around the world that M$ is indeed too expensive. Can anyone say Google portable apps......

  95. Re:I believe this because I think it's already rea by initialE · · Score: 1

    More likely your Office is deployed with customizations (such as automatically dropping in the CD key) using their office resource kit, which for some anal reason requires you to have updates deployed in a similar manner, i.e. either through group policy or downloading the executables. It won't work through microsoft update.

    --
    Starbucks, Harbuckle of Breath.