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Last-Minute Glitch Holds Up Windows XP SP3
An anonymous reader sends word that Microsoft Windows XP SP3, which had been scheduled to hit the Web today, was pulled back at the last minute. SP3 apparently broke a Microsoft application, Microsoft Dynamics Retail Management System. Their solution is to set up a filter to make sure that no system running the affected software will get automatically updated; once the filter is in place, SP3 will be released to the Web. A fix for the incompatibility will follow.
You'd think Microsoft would test Service Packs against all Microsoft products while the SPs are still in Alpha or Beta.
[Fuck Beta]
o0t!
It's a shame they don't have full access to all Microsoft products to test this long before the release date.
Seriously, if Microsoft is prepared to hold up an update of this sort and then modify the procedure to kludge their way around the problem for their own software but would just release the patch if it was someone else's application, then this seems extremely dubious to my non-expert mind. After all, doesn't this give their applications the unusual, and unfair, advantage that they might work with Windows both before and after a major update?
As much as I hate to admit it, I actually believed those lying B*stards.
Honestly who here (besides myself) did not see this coming?
Beny"I'm a humble person really,
I'm actually much greater than I think I am"
Vista SP1 has the same bug
According to a leaked recording from Microsoft's secret underground Quality Assurance Lair, the real reason was a bit more complicated. Here's a transcription from the files that I received:
"Hey, guys! Why is this chair stuck inside SP3? How does this kind of stuff get in here anyway? We can't ship it like this!"
This kind of thing happens more ofteh than you might think.
I work for an online retailer and one of my recent tasks was to evaluate Dynamics for potential use in house. The problem that we ran into was that the media that Microsoft sent us directly plain didn't work. We couldn't even get the package to install; hell we even read the manual. We tried it on XP, Server 2003, and 2008 beta. The installer walks you through all of the preinstall requirements and manages to explode every time. So are they sure SP3 dumping Dynamics isn't just a "feature"?
We are looking at the Apache Open For Biz suite now instead and if that doesn't satisfy management they will go with SugarCRM.
they caught an error and patched it for everyone else while working on it.
This can happen to any patch that rolls out. It's when it's not caught that we should complain.
No, I am NOT an apologist.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
I can understand holding back from Windows/Microsoft updates, but why hold back from the download site? Unless you want to make people question the viability of XP and reconsider holding off on Vista.
Makes you wonder what software will break that they didn't test...
I suppose we owe thanks to the early adopters out there for testing all our updates.
Now you know why your corporate IT department is so reluctant to update software and OSs.
.sigs are for post^Hers.
That's what I gathered from the article. The only thing being changed is whether or not XP SP3 or Vista SP1 automatically installs or downloads via automatic updates on machines running Microsoft Dynamics Retail Management System. My assumption is that you'd be fine installing this now as long as you are not running Microsoft Dynamics Retail Management System but then again it is a new service pack for a Microsoft product so assuming this will be the only problem is silly :-)
Windows XP still has just under 6 years of support left (just under a year of mainstream support left, then another 5 years of extended support).
It seems you are confusing the end of support with the end of retail and big brand OEM availibility.
note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
People actually use that POS?
In a nutshell:
* one of Microsoft's own software breaks after installing SP3 for Windows XP.
* the software that breaks is a business application, and not some security program requiring undocumented API calls or system drivers
What are the odds that software from others will break, too?
A cynical part of me wonders if SP3 contains breaking changes to make life harder for WINE, and possibly other solutions.
Does anyone have more info regarding the specific reasons for breakage?
getting all those glitches in on time for release.
Same difference. If I need to deploy more XP boxes after they stop selling XP, and I don't have a volume license, I'm SOL.
Secondly, Microsoft is not one monolithic entity, as many believe, but a group of different business units. The DRMS folk aren't going to drop their current activities to check whether a different business unit's updates work.
Thirdly, so what! Why not ship it anyway with a release note saying "Don't use with DRMS!". SP2 broke some MS developer tools and that did not stop them shipping it. Some organisations had to wait months for updates before they could migrate to SP2.
Engineering is the art of compromise.
SP3...apparently broke a Microsoft application, Microsoft Dynamics Retail Management System...
Service Pack withdrawn because it breaks the Microsoft DRM System. Cue tinfoil hats.
-- Insert witty one-liner here. --
I'm amazed the submitter didn't go for the glitzy headline: "Microsoft breaks RMS"
Is there any way to get the Service Pack 3 in its final form if we don't use MS DRMS?
They should have just filled out a Karnaugh map and done the overlapping square trick. That gets rid of some glitches.
If my memory serves me correctly, SP2 was also delayed several weeks to due the discovery of the integer overflow class of vulnerabilities.
We need a quellesurprise tag...
My 0.02 cents
It seems you are confusing the end of support with the end of retail and big brand OEM availibility.
// MD_Update(&m,buf,j);
I never knew that RMS was able to stop a service pack! :) I've been waiting all day to make that one. Epic fail.
Shh.
After many, many years of reading the tripe that passes for news here, I'm shocked, SHOCKED to find a news story that is actually useful. I'm shopping for POS systems right now, and this is gonna make me think twice about MS DRMS. The last thing you want in a POS is instability. Lines of happy customers can quickly become angry if the cash registers suddenly die.
I don't respond to AC's.
No, you buy a Vista Business license which is downward compatible with XP Pro.
Wouldn't it be better if they documented those hidden APIs instead so you'd have access to those nifty features too? So XP SP3 and Vista SP1 are confirmed to cause a problem with 1 Microsoft product out of a total of ___ (- insert number much larger than 1 here) products and that speaks volumes to you?
Strictly speaking, it's a patch for a fix in a service pack.
Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.
So does this mean when its released it will be glitch free!? YAY!!
Microsoft racing to restore compatibility with DRMS.
If you don't use that app, besides the general wait period for other bugs to come out there's no reason not to slipstream it since the patch will probably be for the MSDRMS, not a change in Windows. They're just going to change Windows Update to not automatically offer it to people who are using MSRDMS.
All your base are belong to Wii.
OK, so it doesn't install the update on systems with Dynamics installed.
What about those users who choose to install XP, complete all the updates, and then install the rest of their software? Does SP3 revert to SP2? Does it prevent the installation of Dynamics? Or does it just break Dynamics?
I think that it is still going to cause problems. My local computer mag site already has it as a download and will prolly be on their next cover disk: http://www.pcauthority.com.au/Download/109499,microsoft-windows-xp-service-pack-3.aspx
But as someone else pointed out, not many who run Dynamics will ever bother to do a manual update.
Don't be apathetic. Procrastinate!
After one false start a few days ago, caused when someone posted build 3311 (a release candidate) as the final RTM, I downloaded the final release this morning. I immediately slipstreamed it into a (XP Pro SP2) CD folder, threw an answer file winnt.sif into the i386 directory, and burned a bootable CD.
Then, I swapped a blank hard disk into this very HP DV9000 laptop, and did the clean unattended SP3 build.
The build went OK, I installed all my apps with few surprises, and now I'm back up on my old user profile (since I'm on a domain, it even remembers my stored passwords).
A few observations:
--They didn't add too many drivers: SP3.CAB (which presumably includes all the contents of SP2.CAB) is only 19587 KB in size, a mere 7 percent larger than the SP2 driver file released in August 2004.
--I don't think any of those added drivers helped my DV9000: I ended up installing every single device I had to update a few months ago when I last did a clean SP2 install.
--They did, at least, include the High-Definition Audio update in SP3. This is helpful, since Microsoft no longer offers the update for download; building a clean SP2 box with HD Audio previously required one to find a copy somewhere else before the sound -- and often the modem -- drivers would work.
--It doesn't include IE7, and my customized Google installer wouldn't work on the SP3 installation, so I had to get it from Windows Update.
--As one might expect, it saved quite a bit of time on the post-build Windows Updates. Not counting IE7, Office or hardware drivers, this particular machine has only downloaded half a dozen updates so far.
They can always fix the bugs in SP4. :)
Cheers,
IT
Power corrupts. PowerPoint corrupts absolutely.
It seems you are confusing the end of support with the end of retail and big brand OEM availibility.
How does that work? I know Dell and some other OEM were doing that, but I don't want to buy a computer.
The biggest "bug" that they need to fix is that SP3 makes XP run even faster now than Vista.
yes, i think it does speak volumes. this is a product they have *complete* internal access to, and they still only find out about the fact that it is completely incompatible with another major piece of software they have *complete* access to right before official launch. it shows that they don't even test their releases against all their own software properly, let alone major software from other vendors. i would like to know how many other pieces of software are affected but not known yet. if they can't keep compatibility with an up to date copy of software they have complete control over this late in the release, how can i be sure that all the other software we use here will work properly? yes, we will of course test things before we push it out officially, but it doesn't leave me too confident.
porl
My guess is that the issues are more about the software requiring bug-specific behaviors. I had an opportunity to speak with one of the OS people a long time ago, they said that "Long Ago" Lotus 1-2-3 had a nasty habit of writing to files after Lotus told the OS to close the file handle. In the older versions of the OS, the OS didn't check to see if you were writing to a closed file handle, and wrote to the closed file. Then you update to the latest version of DOS, and all the sudden it breaks Lotus because now the OS cleans up after itself and correctly returns an error when you try writing to the closed file handle (which is probably ignored by Lotus, causing the save file to be corrupted somehow). Now who do you blame? MS for not getting the API right in the first place, or Lotus 1-2-3 for writing to the closed file handle, or MS fixing a bug? From what I remember, MS ended up adding code to detect that the application was Lotus and switching into a quirks kind of mode. Having to write fixes for all these crappy applications is why Windows is a POS. More towards the issues with drivers. A friend of mine's printer driver broke with XP SP2. We found out that how the printer driver worked was it has a service that hosted an application that spoke to the printer, and the driver spoke to the local application via TCP. MS firewall blocked it (cause open ports can expose vulnerabilities). I blame the printer company for writing a crappy 50meg printer driver that requires a network connection to print locally, not MS.
Is this legit or is it a w0rm or tr0j4n? Anyone care enough to check? I don't, I'm running 64-bit Windows Vista. How else would I take advantage of my DirectX 10.1 compatible Radeon 3870x2 and my 2x2GB Corsair "Dominator" DDR2 System RAM?
Why, you ask? Because gamers and enthusiasts are always on the bleeding edge in terms of graphics technologies, and Microsoft, in their profane, demonic genius, have made DirectX 10 only available on Vista. In other words, for me to get the biggest bang for my buck out of a current-generation card (in my case a Direct X 10.1 compatible, Radeon 3870x2), I have to run Vista. Additionally, while this is not a Vista-specific feature, I'm running a 64-bit OS to take advantage of 4gb of system RAM (2x2GB Corsair "Dominator" 1066mhz DDR2).
Now, the earliest Vista adopters will be gamers and the like -- this is a large target market, and practically 100% of it is guaranteed to move to Vista solely due to DirectX 10. They will help float the company until the more widespread adoption of Vista begins. See, as computer hardware continues to develop, it will become cheaper and more common to have ~2GB of system RAM; current-generation DirectX 10 cards selling for $400 will fall in price to $100 or $50; in other words, the falling price of hardware will make adopting Vista in the future easier. Now, since we're in the future, Microsoft's support for Windows XP has long expired. This means that a wide array of new hacks that compromise the operating system will begin to emerge, as is the usual, except in this case Microsoft won't fix them because XP is no longer "supported." So, assuming you can even find a copy of XP to install, you're essentially installing an inferior product due to discontinued development. Now, also because we're in the future, Crysis probably costs about $20. The budget computer you just bought for $300 is capable of running it. Are you going to pass up the opportunity simply because you don't like M$, and refuse to install Vista? For most, the answer is no. Why? Well, not installing Vista would be harder than installing it (you'd have to find an XP copy, or god forbid, learn Linux), and it would also be less beneficial. Not to mention that many of the early adopters we mentioned earlier (those graphics obsessed gamers) are generally considered the "technically literate" in the social circles they travel in. In other words, people will ask them their opinion of Vista. And since they've used it, they'll tell all of their friends who are considering it that it works great!
Now, let me say that, as an enthusiast, I'm entirely satisfied with Vista SP1. A list of common applications that work in Vista so far has included Hamachi, Steam, Catalyst, Daemon Tools Lite, Azureus, Soulseek, iTunes, Firefox, Avast! Antivirus, Adobe Reader, and WinRAR. Vista was certainly cumbersome on it's initial release, but it is now quite palatable. It even came with the drivers for my Realtek onboard sound already installed, which was impressive, as I have tried to install the Realtek drivers manually on many motherboards and XP installations, usually to such complete, utter, and stunning failure that I ended up just buying a $30 Soundblaster Audigy to stick into any computer whose onboard sound refused to function.
Developers, Developers, Developers, Developers! *Chairs flying in the air at Redmond*
Not as tempting as you may think. You and I are not MS's main customer base, businesses are. And unlike you or I, businesses running hundreds/thousands/++ of XP installations are not just going to shrug and cough up the cash involved in migrating.
It seems you are confusing the end of support with the end of retail and big brand OEM availability.
Is it just my observation, or is eldavojohn an idiot?
"What, a Microsoft program stops working in XP? Strange, there is no issue in Vista. Just upgrade to Vista, and all your problems will be solved. May I intrest you in the Ultimate Edition? We are running a special today, $5 off if you order in the next 5 minutes."
A cynical part of me wonders if SP3 contains breaking changes to make life harder for WINE, and possibly other solutions.
I know it crushes the fantasies Linuxites have, but MS could give a shit about W(h)INE.
MS wants XP broken in favor of *Vista*. If SP3 becomes mandatory (ie, remove other hotfixes and make only SP3 available or make SP3 required for some Genuine Advantage "upgrade") and SP3 becomes known for making XP work worse or slower, it has a good chance of making Vista look better and possibly start gaining people willing to upgrade.
Other than new systems purchased at retail by consumers, Vista has been a colossal failure and MS wants/needs new technology uptake to keep the wheel turning. Sabotaging XP is an excellent way to do this.
in which case it would be rushed to market. Actually it is probably meant to break an old MS product- XP itself, and bring it down to the level of Vista, or lower (which, I concede, would take significant effort)
you will still be able to get system builder packs until next january and vista buisness and ultimate OEM come with downgrade rights (though in some cases they may be a pain to excercise)
and the bottom end of volume licensing (open license) is only 5 machines iirc.
note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
note: you only get the downgrade rights with OEM copies, not retail copies. Yes I think this is crazy.
To perform the downgrade you use either a disk supplied by your OEM (probablly the preffered option), use your volume license media or use your media from an existing system (though this last option is likely to require a telphone activation)
note that system builder (whitebox OEM) packs for XP remain availible from MS until january and there is nothing preventing stockpiling of retail or whitebox OEM copies.
note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
Really I do
I don't see why I got modded as flamebait. The complaints are perfectly valid, and lo and behold I was right.
Not saying that there aren't other OS's that have these problems off the bat, but really Windows has historically been the worst, either with releases or with Service Pack upgrades.
Karma: Non-Heinous