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First Release Candidate of Wine 1.0 Released
moronikos writes to mention that the first release candidate of Wine 1.0 was announced and released into the wild today. This new version includes only bug fixes as the team is in a code freeze while pushing for the full 1.0 release.
does it run linux?
"I think it would be a good idea" Gandhi, on Western Civilisation
I'll drink to that!!!
(seriously though...hooray WINE!)
Why would I want to use Wine when I can just run windows in a virtual machine?
Bug-for-bug compatibility works best when it's the real thing.
I was always under the impression that WINE, based on how it is designed, would never be finished, or even close to a finished release point. I mean, yeah, I know 1.0 doesn't mean it's done, just that it hit a specific milestone, but even so, WINE, being considered a ⥠1.0 version seems to me like it shouldn't happen until it can at least come close to running most everything thrown at it.
Just my non-developer, non-programer, former WINE-user $.02.
"Don't meddle in the affairs of a patent dragon, for thou art tasty and good with ketchup." ~ohcrapitssteve
What happens if I run Cedega from Wubi from wine from a virtual machine of Linux run from wine within linux?
I mean, I've been running Windows software under WINE for *years*. What's their definition of "1.0"? Does it really mean anything, or will we be getting 1.0.1, 1.0.2, etc monthly afterwards anyway just like before? Or is 1.0 some "complete feature set" release, suggesting that I can now run any windows software (I doubt that's true, considering that even MS Office is still a bit shaky).
http://www.winehq.org/?announce=1.0-rc1 pretty much has a list of bugfixes&features, just like any other release. Where's the beef in "1.0"?
.. before it is usable? :)
--I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.
I think this is great Wine is finally reaching "1.0". I am hoping this version will be treated as a longer lived, stable, supported branch. This way developers might seriously target Wine as a platform or at least consider it a real "Microsoft Windows Compatible" target (Yea, it would be better if ports of apps were targeted to be Linux or Mac OS X native)
Sure it won't run all Windows apps perfectly - but then again, neither does Windows! There are lots of apps out there that have various bad code that often shouldn't even run at all but somehow gets away with working under a generic Windows XP install. Then they crash under Wine, Windows Vista, or even XP under odd configurations. And then there are the ones that do things different under different versions of Windows to get around bugs or varying behavior in Windows.
Also having a longer lived "1.0" branch would mean tips and tricks to getting individual programs to run would not become obsolete quite as quickly, and a Wine "1.0" users would not have to worry as much about apps breaking every few weeks.
At any rate, Wine has come a very long way - I remember when it was just trying to be a Windows 3.1 clone!
When I switched from Windows to Linux, it turned out that I was able to function without specific applications, there are Linux equivalents for pretty much everything.
Deleted
So, this would be Release Candidate version 0.01 right? ;-)
I tried to find this from the Wine website, but couldn't seem to find it.
What does it mean to be 1.0 (if anything)? Is there any set of functionality that they were trying to hit for 1.0? Or is it just that "Many, many things work great, so let's just call this 1.0"?
Just curious...
Finally, I can test out Duke's new high-powered rocket launcher on my Hurd system!
Just 2 more years until the actual 1.0 release?
Seriously now, this is good news. What bottle of wine should I open on the release day? Cab, merlot, syrah, late harvest... yup, late harvest cabernet it is!
..in 3 ..2 ...1 ....
I remember using it some time in 2004. It's been in development for quite a while...
Just look at the list of applications supported by Wine and you'll understand why I say that. Basically, if I can run Civ IV, Heroes IV and other strategy games on Linux, and with Matlab having a Linux version, there's very little to justify my using Windows. OK, there's Fruityloops, but that's it!
"The agriculture ministry is not in charge of Gundam" - Japanese ministry official.
I can tolerate infantile tantrums, but I really hate sloppy use of language. Is our esteemed correspondent referring to people who copulate with coprophiliac goats, or coprophiliac individuals who enjoy the carnal pleasures afforded by goats?
Before Duke Nukem?
Nice to see Wine going 1.0. Does anyone know how much this impacts ReactOS?
The beef is described at
http://wiki.winehq.org/WineReleaseCriteria
In essence, 1.0 is just another release,
but with more stability (e.g. a month's
codefreeze and only very careful bugfixes)
and a few longstanding bugs
(e.g. serial I/O, dos apps) fixed not because
lots of people need them, but because it just
seemed wrong to reach 1.0 without fixing them.
Dan Kegel
Wine 1.0 Release Manager
Does this mean they'll start releasing binaries for OS X soon? I've compiled it a couple of times, but it's a lot of effort (you need to check out things from two separate svn repositories, run a script, hunt bugs, then compile for every version), and since they claim in the first paragraph of the front page to support OS X I'd really expect them to have regular binary builds.
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
And in any case, since installing is required to use, the copy created there is not a copyright controlled action and so not covered by the license.
If you were to give the CD away, THEN you'd have a copyright issue. If you keep the CD, none.
If you read http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/world-domination/world-domination-201.html#id247954 you will much better understand why they are pushing for a 'clean' 1.0 release. Its 'now or never' ...
:(
Personally I 'need' support for Rollercoaster Tycoon 3, not for myself, but for my girlfriend. It is the single showstopper for her linux experience, and until it is fixed, I'll never hear the end of it
Unfortunately, neither. He is simply stating that the subject shits while eating goat fuckers.
I'd like the opportunity to thank all of you who have been working hard on Wine all these years.
Recently Wine has saved my butt at work when my Windows machine auto-upgraded me to IE 7 (even though I have auto updates turned off). I was hard-pressed, then, to be able to reproduce a JavaScript bug that apparently was only present on IE 6 (and not 7, nor FF or Opera).
Being able to install IE 6 on my Ubuntu box was a godsend, and it worked well enough that I was able to reproduce the bug and fix it.
Kudos to you guys for your fabulous work, and thank you!
You can accomplish anything you set your mind to. The impossible just takes a little longer.
"Is our esteemed correspondent referring to people who copulate with coprophiliac goats, or coprophiliac individuals who enjoy the carnal pleasures afforded by goats?"
The two behaviors are not mutually exclusive.
I'd continue this discussion at length, but I've got to go buy an elastrator. (Nip the competition in the bud, so to speak.)
"This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
I hope so. I'll be less skeptical when Wine can run the games I actually play. CivCTP, for example, still doesn't work.
Now I'll have to find something else in pre 1.0 to use and childly complain about...
^[:wq!
The problem with wine has always been the moving target that is Windows. That's how Microsoft keeps itself relevant. Using its monopoly position to keep everyone on the upgrade treadmill.
With Vista so terrible and, really, only new machines going vista and old machines staying as they are on XP, the XP level of the Win32 API has remained fairly stable for a good number of years. In fact, it may be unlikely that Microsoft will ever be able to unify the user base on a new version of the API again.
(And yes I know that there are still users of 3.1, W95,W98,W98SE, etc. but these are static installations that typically don't buy new software.)
Wine, moving forward, has a very good chance of capturing a usable market because ISVs are reluctant to abandon XP in any meaningful way.
Did they run out of numbers after the 0.999 version?
I've used Ubuntu for 3 or 4 years now, both on servers at work and a home desktop, I'm an EE and some of my design software is best run under windows so my work laptop has been winXP.
/home (.wine is here)
Recently bought a new personal laptop which came with Vista *cringe* this is my first experience using vista on a daily basis...
I tried an experiment, my desktop runs hardy and has a similar graphics card to my new laptop
Specs:
Laptop
Asus G1S-B2
Nvidia 8600M GT 256MB
3GB of ram
7200 RPM drive
1680x1050 screen (15.4")
Vista Home Prem
Desktop
2 8600 GTS non SLI driving 4 monitors @ 1680x1050
Raptor 10kRPM drive with OS on it
3ware RAID 5 ~1TB array with
4GB ram
Ubuntu Hardy
most recent wine stable from ubuntu reps
Compiz active, 4 screens, xinerma + twinview screen setup
Installed WOW as a test...
Installing wow in wine + wow was a breeze, obviously the drives involved were much faster but in terms of hand ups, there were none.
Installing wow in vista was fine until it wanted to update, i had figure out that i had to run the app as admin to allow it to install updates...why? no clue, bad programming.
Load times are obviously basically instant on the desktop, this is drive issue tho...
now the interesting bit.
FPS on the desktop are consistently 50% higher on the desktop with the same settings, even if I am rotating the cube in compiz wine runs wow faster than my desktop on a quite similar graphics card, granted the desktop 8600 runs with a higher clock (tho the asus laptop i have runs the 8600M faster than standard and is only 75Mhz core clock away from the desktop version) This is with the desktop card also driving a second screen and handing compiz. No hang ups closing and opening the window in ubuntu, flipping screens on the laptop results in a big ol' pause...
I'd tried wow under cedega a year or so ago and hated the graphics glitchs and the insane load times...
i have to say, wine has come a long way...the day when wine runs a graphics intensive app faster than it can run under windows is awesome, i find it hilarious that the wine guys can impersonate windows and run apps faster than they can run under the native OS....goes to show how poorly windows is really written...
anyway, i'm going to play with vista a bit more for my own knowledge then this laptop will most likely convert to hardy...given what i've learned i may try all my engineering apps with wine too, perhaps then i can convert completely...
-x
We know those stats aren't quite accurate. Here's basically how we generate them: we ask the various subsystems maintainers, "How close to complete do you think this is?" and then we munge in some true numbers on actual function calls (API's) exported by DLL's and the number we've implemented (and in and of themselves each API might not be 100% complete.)
So take those numbers with a grain of salt. In some cases, it's completely possible a DLL will be nearly 100% functional with not many of the API's implemented at all. Microsoft has invented thousands of API's over the years and some have been dead on arrival - no one has ever used them. Even Microsoft doesn't use all of their API's. That's why within Wine development there's an often cited development method of, "Show me an app that actually uses that."
Finally, Tom hasn't updated those stats in almost a year and we've done a lot of work since then. (Big kudos to Tom Wickline for tackling that stuff.)
So what Wine really aims for is to take the most common few thousand API's and try to do them really well. Then we flesh out some bits around that. Then we stub out things around that and finally there's bits we just haven't even started.
----- obSig
If wine were to be integrated in some of the larger distros I am convinced the larger exposure will speed along development, and speed the acceptance of Linux in the workplace.
Seven Days with Ubuntu Unity
Alright guys, this release is 15 years in coming. I'm not aware of any other free software project that's taken 15 years to get to 1.0.
We know we've got some core architecture just right. That's taken a long time to get there. Now we have a lot of bug squashing to do and in many cases it's pretty amazing how quickly regressions can be found, bugs tracked, etc if we just have a few more eyes on this release.
So we put together a list of things you can do to help us out - check it out here:
1.0 regression hunting. And hey! We're giving out t-shirts to the folks who help us out the most.
Notice we didn't say anything about jumping in and writing code? You're certainly welcome to, and in some cases there might even be some low hanging fruit. However, without development experience on Wine's codebase your valuable time might best be spent regression testing your favorite game!
As always, thanks for all the support!
----- obSig
IranAir Flight 655 never forget!
Does its implementation of the Windows APIs include the same vulnerabilities?
Still...it's hard for me to be enthusiastic when the only piece of software that I really care about running in Linux (Google Talk) isn't functional...
Oh well, perhaps somebody will fully implement Jingle VoIP library in some Linux IM client really-soon-now (tm) (so I can talk with computer illiterate Windows users for which Google Talk is perfect when it comes to ease of use, Skype suffers too much for featuritis; oh, and Jingle/GTalk working better on slow connections is a nice bonus)
One that hath name thou can not otter
With regards to the "windows is a moving target" discussion that always comes up with WINE, the "but specific versions, particularly legacy ones, aren't." answer sufficiently addresses the platform's past. In fact, I strongly suspect that WINE on *nix could be a serious contender when certain cranky legacy systems have to be replaced. What I've seen less about is the future. The new .net stuff is probably mono's department; but loads of common windows stuff is still win32. There the moving target problem still exists.
It would make the future very much easier if the case could be made to software vendors that the *nix market is, or might soon be, of value. They would then have an incentive to keep WINE in mind while developing. The changes wouldn't need to be immediate or radical, just trying to keep out of ill-supported areas of win32, where possible, and bringing things that they run into to the WINE team's attention.
Obviously, some vendors would not, for technical or business reasons, be willing or able to do this(Office, some games, etc.); but those that can would be useful. In particular, this might be really helpful to address the class of critical but unsexy apps that *nix is often weak on. Bookkeeping, inventory, payroll, various other stuff in the category of boring but common business niche software.
Traditionally the monopoly has made some new API and just made it something you have to install. The old VB runtimes. The .net runtime. The whatever runtime/library/something-or-other.
They can still make up a new api every couple of years and get that running on xp too. Make the latest Visual Studio generated apps use it and you've got a lot of developers using it to make little programs. And big programs.
Which makes a lot of catching up for the WINE guys. Which is how the game is played I guess.
Maybe if they get far enough with XP compatibilty the new runtime installer would run in WINE. That'd be neat.
It would be nice if this application worked a bit better before going for a 1.0 release. Even with all the windows DLLs in place, it still proves to be a very unpredictable program with poor results for about 90% of the executables out there.
I'm not knocking the wine project, but it seems to be a LONG ways off from the whole number version realm.
"And that's the killer. If 95% of what you need runs on one platform but 100% runs on another, which will you choose?". I guess you forgot that Windows XP is to be decommissioned - so you have your choice - loose a lot with Windows Vista that ran under XP, or switch to Linux and still run 95% of those software there supported... In not too distant future you can expect XP's software piracy checks to fail as MS states XP is End of Life, so you choice will be to use "pirate" methods for your bought XP or loose all the apps Vista no longer supports and or buy yet again the Vista compatibly version of the old software.
Wine may be a better option for everyone who do not intent to yet again buy all the software they already bought.
...it's still not good enough. I will continue to have a full-fledged version of Windows on my computers until Wine can run MS Office flawlessly. That includes plugins for said suite. IOW, until I can run Excel and use Solver w/out the system crashing, it's not good enough.
Additionally, it would be nice to have MS Office 2007 support. I know you're working on it, keep up the good work, but until you get that done, I'm still going to use VMWare or reboot into Windows.
But seriously, can't wait until you figure out how to get Office 2007 supported; then I'll push my company's IT department to let me get Linux installed on my work laptop.
With verry little performance hit; only on the host architecture upon a GNU/Linux environment must Wine x86 binaries be isolated to be interpreted by a process of qemu. A component accessible by QEMU within the same project, (kqemu) will nigh-directly allow the binary's emulated code to execute on the host architecture only if it was written for the same host architecture. This does not remedy a x86-transcode to the host architecture, but just a privilege greater than a hope of higher performance.
without prejudice
Maybe now the WINE team will start focusing on compatibility with 64-bit programs now that WINE 1.0 is going to be released.
Dyslexia much?
Excellent year...!
"Still...it's hard for me to be enthusiastic when the only piece of software that I"
Maybe you could be enthusiastic for what it means to other people.
Look up what the name WINE stands for....
"happy for other people" - sure, why not :)
But enthusiastic...no, sorry, it only works that way when in given thing there's enough mojo for "me" (and I think the sentence you quoted was clearly enough from my point of view)
One that hath name thou can not otter
Wine might reach a point where it is more compatible with Windows apps than the latest Windows itself.
Good luck running 15 years worth of Windows apps on Vista. I'd bet Wine does that more than the latter.