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China Launches Antitrust Probe Vs. Microsoft

snydeq writes "China has launched an investigation into whether Microsoft unfairly dominates its software market, according to a state media report. A working committee of China's State Intellectual Property Office is investigating whether Microsoft engaged in discriminatory pricing and will also look at Microsoft's practice of bundling other software programs within its Windows operating system, according to the report. The probe is part of a greater sweep of operating systems and other software developed by multinational companies that cost much more in China than in the U.S. 'On the one hand, global software firms, taking advantage of their monopoly position, set unreasonably high prices for genuine software while on the other hand, they criticise Chinese for poor copyright awareness. This is abnormal,' a source said."

295 comments

  1. Wha? by wamerocity · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I don't think you can call it a monopoly if all the companies software in your country is pirated.

    --
    "Thank you for using Stop-n-Drop, America's favorite suicide booth since 2008"
    1. Re:Wha? by MoonlightSeraphim · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I believe what they are trying to say is that. "We pirate your software because your prices are so effen high" and now they are using this action as an excuse for MS to fsck off and justify what they did in front of the world ... that is if they even care.

    2. Re:Wha? by all5n · · Score: 1

      Because everyone else is doing it...

      Hey, free money!

      The long term plan of Chinese global cultural manifest destiny continues.

    3. Re:Wha? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      LOL. This story is the funniest thing I've read all week.

    4. Re:Wha? by hey! · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Well, given that said company wants the country to do something about it, then whether the way they set and enforce prices is legal in that country is certainly a relevant question. If Microsoft is calling upon China to enforce its intellectual property laws, it can hardly complain if China agrees, but also insists on enforcing its anti-trust laws.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    5. Re:Wha? by kai6novice · · Score: 1

      I think the Chinese government is trying to say... "Your (Microsoft) software is so good and so expensive, it's monopolize our pirate market. No one is buying any Linux software in our pirate market." LOL

    6. Re:Wha? by spun · · Score: 1

      The Chinese plan is different from the US plans, how, exactly?

      --
      - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
    7. Re:Wha? by Hassman · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That's funny. Isn't that why people pirate music? People here usually think that is a valid excuse / reason. Attn: DOJ, time to sue the RIAA!

      --
      -Mark
      Dovie'andi se tovya sagain.
    8. Re:Wha? by elrous0 · · Score: 1

      The Chinese government is just fighting for consumer rights here--unless the consumer says anything bad about the Chinese government or tries to access a pro-democracy site on the internet, in which case they will be imprisoned.

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    9. Re:Wha? by Random+BedHead+Ed · · Score: 2, Funny

      Your (Microsoft) software is so good and so expensive
      I know. The timing of this investigation shows the Chinese are reeling from how good Microsoft's software is, now that Vista's out.
    10. Re:Wha? by mabhatter654 · · Score: 1

      the last large country firmly run by the communist party ... suing one of the largest, richest, most aggressive capitalist companies... for being a monopoly! Don't both sides have entirely opposite agendas here?

      pass the popcorn, this should be fun!

    11. Re:Wha? by megaditto · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The Chinese plan is different from the US plans, how, exactly? American plan: America should be on top.
      Chinese plan: America should not be on top.

      I think most Americans can see the difference.
      --
      Obama likes poor people so much, he wants to make more of them.
    12. Re:Wha? by megaditto · · Score: 5, Informative

      No, you are wrong. I wish people would stop calling China "communist," since it is not. Their economic system is a free-market capitalism, with elements of fascism (the original definition - "authoritarian union between the government and big businesses" - not the Gowin/deathcamp definition).

      Their political system is dictatorship, since they are governed by unelected representatives. Hence, the correct description for China would be capitalist dictatorship.

      The reason they don't like Microsoft (or Google) is because the profits go to USA instead of to their government-endorsed corporations like China Telecom, Nuesoft, Baidu, Kingsoft, etc. And we are not talking peanuts here either: last year Microsoft alone paid about US$ 7,000,000,000 in taxes, 70+% of which came from foreign sales.

      --
      Obama likes poor people so much, he wants to make more of them.
    13. Re:Wha? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Their economic system is a free-market capitalism, with elements of fascism (the original definition - "authoritarian union between the government and big businesses" - not the Gowin/deathcamp definition).

      In one sentence, you contradict yourself mightily. It is not "free", not "free-market", and by my definition not capitalism either. Colloquially, many will consider any business or marketet driven economy to be capitalism. However, no nation on Earth is "free" or anywhere close. Mercantilism is not a 'free-market' system. The whole point of the f-ing post is a government intrusion into a foreign company. Not exactly free market fodder.

    14. Re:Wha? by tryfan · · Score: 1

      If all the copies are of the same software, sure it's a monopoly.

    15. Re:Wha? by Erikderzweite · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I don't think you can call it a monopoly if all the companies software in your country is pirated. Actually, you can, given the fact that piracy is known Microsoft's tactics to capture vast amounts of market share. They just sit there and watch their share grow without spending a penny. They come later and put pressure on government and commercial organizations to make pay for their products.

      Establishing the monopoly by selling the product very cheap and then increasing the prices drastically is called dumping.
      Dumping is illegal elsewhere, but Microsoft does exactly the same thing and is able to act as a victim instead of being prosecuted.
    16. Re:Wha? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, we're the only ones who are allowed to have a monopoly on everything! It's immoral if anyone else does it. - The Chinese Government

    17. Re:Wha? by magarity · · Score: 4, Informative

      you are wrong. I wish people would stop calling China "communist"
       
      Actually, the gp said China was run by the communist party, which is 100% correct. His error is in thinking that any given communist party has the opposite agenda as a monopoly. On the contrary, communist parties are notorious for ruling as monopolies. Meanwhile, you are correct about the self-designated "communists" but that's another matter.

    18. Re:Wha? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When we say "pirated" we don't mean "shared by all the people because they are all communists." We mean that above 95% of the proprietary software running in the country is gained through piracy. Just like the videos, many textbooks, and anything else than can be copied.

      Hell, last time I went to China, street vendors had recent theatrical releases alongside knock-offs like "Gladiator II" (not a horrible name for a tape of what is really 2 hours of Hercules: the Legendary Journeys). You can get windows XP for pennies on the dollar. It was a story when Vista, after months, finally broke 500 licensed users in China. They pirate pretty much everything that they can.

    19. Re:Wha? by jedidiah · · Score: 2, Insightful

      > is a government intrusion into a foreign company.

      Well... doing business somewhere tends to put you on the hook for obeying
      the laws of wherever that somewhere is. This could be murder, spitting on
      the sidewalk, or shady business practices.

      Try violating the laws of my state while doing business here and see how far that gets you...

      China is a sovereign nation with it's own laws. Imagine that?

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    20. Re:Wha? by demonbug · · Score: 1

      Establishing the monopoly by selling the product very cheap and then increasing the prices drastically is called dumping. IIRC, it is only dumping if you are selling the product at a loss, leveraging your superior market cap to drive out smaller competitors that cannot afford to sell at a loss for as long a time (then jacking the price back up once they are out of business).

      It might be tough to prove that Microsoft engages in dumping, since their software products have no intrinsic value. The price they sell them at is somewhat arbitrary since they just need to find a price that maximizes their income by balancing price point vs. demand at that price. They never really sell software products below cost, because the direct cost going into each copy is negligible.
      Very different from, say, cars (since we all know so very much about them), where if you are selling the cars for less than the cost of the material and labor going in to them it is clear that you are dumping.
    21. Re:Wha? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      China is trying to have it both way, free market capitalism and a dictatorial leadership. Which essentailly means they're trying to have their communist cake and eat it too.

    22. Re:Wha? by jc42 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I wish people would stop calling China "communist," since it is not.

      Look at it this way: China is Communist in the same sense that America is Christian.

      The leaders of both nations use the name, but they pretty much violate all the principles behind the name.

      Of course, they're not the only country for which this is true.

      --
      Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
    23. Re:Wha? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, you are wrong. I wish people would stop calling China "communist," since it is not. Their economic system is a free-market capitalism, with elements of fascism (the original definition - "authoritarian union between the government and big businesses" - not the Gowin/deathcamp definition). Their political system is dictatorship, since they are governed by unelected representatives. Hence, the correct description for China would be capitalist dictatorship.

      Oh. So their system is okay after all? I thought it was evil and everything. Thanks. Now this non-communism you speak of sounds so much better.

      Am I the only one who doesn't think it makes any practical difference? I sick of the "clarification" many people always want to put out there every time there's a story about China. Who cares. It's a sucky, repressive system.

    24. Re:Wha? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No way would I call it anywhere near "capitalistic". The vast majority of companies in china of any size are either run by the government or are jointly owned by the government, or are set up by foreign investors looking for outsourcing.

    25. Re:Wha? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "a free-market capitalism, with elements of fascism" ... "capitalist dictatorship"

      Are you referring to China, or America?

    26. Re:Wha? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      China is a sovereign nation with it's own laws. Imagine that?

      The issue is mislabeling China's economic system "free-market capitalism". That they have "it's own laws" is part of why it is an invalid description, not even close, and borderline retarded.

      I have no beef with saying China is not communist. Fine. But it doesn't make the opposite - or the perceived opposite - true. Like communism, capitalism (pure capitalism of the type preceded with "free market"), is a theory rarely approached even closely.

      Nowhere does your post contradict this point, and it is curious as to why you posted. The issue is not government intrusion per se, but that government intrusion is not generally indicative of "free-market capitalism".

      I really wish people read more economic theory.

    27. Re:Wha? by allcoolnameswheretak · · Score: 1

      since they are governed by unelected representatives Actually, there are elections in most communist countries. The catch is, that there are only members of the communist party on the ballot.
    28. Re:Wha? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They are authoritarian, with single party rule, not a dictatorship. A dictatorship implies a single person with absolute control.

    29. Re:Wha? by ignavus · · Score: 1

      And that 70% from foreign sales explains why the US government has no desire to end the Microsoft monopoly.

      --
      I am anarch of all I survey.
    30. Re:Wha? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, you are wrong. China is neither "communist" or capitalist dictatorship.

      It's a fucking corporation.

    31. Re:Wha? by kTag · · Score: 1

      American plan: America should be on top.
      Chinese plan: America should not be on top. Chinese plan : China should be on top.
      American plan : China should not be on top.

      Here, I'm right and you are wrong because I said so.
    32. Re:Wha? by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      Anarchy != Liberty.

      The rule of law is required in order for business to get done. That
      is one of the key benefits of the way the US and G8 governs as
      compared to most of the rest of the planet. That predictability
      allows and encourages effort and investment in economic activity.

      Obviously corporations are going to be held to the rule of law
      to prevent direct and indirect harm to other individuals and
      corporations.

      Even ancient tort law is an aspect of this.

      Your view of capitalism would have been considered naieve and childish
      even by pre-Civil War Republicans.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
  2. What? by daveatneowindotnet · · Score: 1

    What use would Communist China have for anti-Trust laws

    1. Re:What? by flyingfsck · · Score: 4, Informative

      China isn't any more communist than for example the UK, Canada or Australia.

      --
      Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
    2. Re:What? by wattrlz · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Except for the part where they proclaim to be.

    3. Re:What? by meringuoid · · Score: 5, Insightful
      What use would Communist China have for anti-Trust laws

      China is being heavily leant upon by the US and its stooges to do something about their prevailing culture of piracy - you know, the great DVD markets of Hong Kong and Shanghai where every film is available a month before it reaches the cinema, all that stuff. It's all to do with international trade agreements; China gets to make more money selling abroad if they stop ripping off Hollywood and Silicon Valley.

      Hitherto China has been happily ignoring Microsoft's monopoly by simply pirating everything. If they're going to go legit then they're going to make damn sure they don't end up paying through the nose for it, so they're raising the same monopoly issue that the US and the EU have done. After all, if China is going to play fair, then so must Microsoft.

      --
      Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
    4. Re:What? by Robert1 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You're totally right. They aren't communist. What they are is fascist.

      "Anti-individualistic, the fascist conception of life stresses the importance of the State and accepts the individual only insofar as his interests coincide with those of the State, which stands for the conscience and the universal will of man as a historic entity.... The fascist conception of the State is all-embracing; outside of it no human or spiritual values can exist, much less have value.... Fascism is therefore opposed to that form of democracy which equates a nation to the majority, lowering it to the level of the largest number...."

      Best description of China I ever read. That's straight from Mussolini's "The Doctrine of Fascism."

      On a related note anyone read the article on how Chinese police jailed parents who tried to go back to the faulty death-traps - I mean schools - their government had built. The police were also instructed to keep foreign press away from the schools and to not let anyone take photos. A pretty good example of how the most important thing is the state above all - including it seems the needless deaths of children.

    5. Re:What? by LWATCDR · · Score: 1, Insightful

      But that is what doesn't make sense. Last time I checked Microsoft charged less for Windows in China than in the US not more. When you think about how many systems are built and preloaded with Windows in China I can not believe that it costs Lenovo less to sell Windows on a PC in the US than it does to sell it in China.

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    6. Re:What? by Hal_Porter · · Score: 5, Insightful

      China isn't any more communist than for example the UK, Canada or Australia. There's a school of thought that says that German Nazism in WWII and Russian Communism were essentially two identical versions of the same system which just claimed to be different. Of course Hitler and Stalin had different hate groups, but the actual systems they built were in practice very similar.

      So it's quite possible for a Communist country like China to change their official ideology to Han Chinese nationalism and corporate state/slave labour capitalism and still be just as far from the UK, Canada or Australia.

      So don't be fooled that they given up on 'Communism'. The PRC was never very socialist anyway, most European democracies went much farther down that path.
      --
      echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
    7. Re:What? by RiotingPacifist · · Score: 1

      Well that about sums it up, all the anti/pro china/microsoft shills can go home^h^h^h outside because this post hits the nail on the head.

      --
      IranAir Flight 655 never forget!
    8. Re:What? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Even though you're just trolling, you could have taken the trouble to spell "sieg heil" correctly...

    9. Re:What? by immcintosh · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I claim to be the King of Prussia. Doesn't make it so, anymore than China's claims make it genuinely communist.

    10. Re:What? by daveatneowindotnet · · Score: 1

      What liberal group is expressing sympathy for China exactly? I guess the Free Tibet protest rallies where held by San Fran's local Young Republicans chapter. OTOH credit where credit is due, nice avoidance of invoking Hitler and Nazis to avoid Godwin's Law, even if using Franco as your model Fascist would have been more clever.

    11. Re:What? by abigor · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Agreed 100%, and it is an absolute farce that they were awarded the Summer Olympic Games. Tens of thousands of people were displaced in order to build facilities and erase "unsightly" slums.

      I'm interested in seeing what the Tibetans get up to during the Games though - my guess is shenanigans will ensue, with the predictably heavy-handed military response. These Games could (hopefully will) end up being the biggest clusterfuck in the history of the Olympics.

    12. Re:What? by B_un1t · · Score: 1

      WHAT!??! Does the UK FILTER THE INTERNET like China? I doubt it.

    13. Re:What? by Hassman · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Very true. The far crazy right isn't that different from the far crazy left when you truly look at it.

      This no value added comment brought to you by one bored guy.

      --
      -Mark
      Dovie'andi se tovya sagain.
    14. Re:What? by MrNaz · · Score: 3, Funny

      I salute your use of alliteration in illustrating your point, my liege.

      --
      I hate printers.
    15. Re:What? by nschubach · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You see, that's where I get really foggy on this whole MS anti-trust issue. I'm pretty sure it's considered "unfair practice" to sell your product to one area (State?) for less or more than another at base cost. (making one market pay more to cover the cost of underselling your product in another market ... ahem $3 per license Windows in Africa(?)) Shipping and taxes would influence the end price. This is what confuses me about how Microsoft does business and how it's still considered legal. The cost of Windows should only be influenced by taxes since digital transfers really cost nothing. (I guess you could add in the shipping cost of CDs though...)

      Isn't it global anti-trust to sell a product for less in one country than you do another? Is there such a thing? Who would bring down the hammer on such things?

      --
      Every time I start to have faith in humanity, I ruin it by driving to work between 7 and 8 am.
    16. Re:What? by dadatianpu · · Score: 1

      good good

    17. Re:What? by fish_in_the_c · · Score: 1

      in china playing fair means ensuring the goverment has full control.

      --
      âoeTolerance applies only to persons, but never to truth. Intolerance applies only to truth, but never to persons.
    18. Re:What? by UdoKeir · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Agreed 100%, and it is an absolute farce that they were awarded the Summer Olympic Games.

      I can't believe the IOC even considered China. It's like hosting the games in Nazi Germany and having Hitler preside over the event.

      Oh wait...

    19. Re:What? by DragonWriter · · Score: 1

      What use would Communist China have for anti-Trust laws


      Uh, you are asking why a Communist state would have state regulation of economic behavir?

    20. Re:What? by meringuoid · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Isn't it global anti-trust to sell a product for less in one country than you do another?

      Ordinarily, no, I don't think so. There's a natural limiting factor to this kind of thing, because if you sell your product much more cheaply in a poor market than in a rich one, then people will make good money buying up stock in the poor countries, shipping it to the rich countries, and selling it on at a profit while still undercutting your official price there.

      The problem comes when the product has a near-zero marginal cost to produce, and near-zero weight. It costs Microsoft almost nothing to stamp out ten thousand Windows disks and sell them in east Asia for a dollar each; if that's what it takes to compete in that market, a dollar per copy is better than nothing. But similarly, it costs me almost nothing to buy up ten thousand Windows disks and ship them to England, there to be sold in a street market; I can undercut their official price by a huge margin, and still turn a healthy profit.

      Thus Microsoft play silly buggers with the EULA, claiming that their product is licensed not sold, and that it's illegal to use in England the copy they sold in China. And Hollywood play silly buggers with region coding as well, to make sure Europeans don't buy DVDs from America of films that aren't yet in our cinemas, and to make sure neither of us buys DVDs from China priced super-cheap to compete with the pirate market. Is that legal? Don't know, but it's sure as hell not right. If globalisation and free trade benefit the corporations, who'll outsource your job at the drop of a hat, it should work for us too: I want to outsource my DVD buying, thank you very much.

      One thing I'm pretty sure of is that this is not legal within the EU. You can't sell a product cheaply in Slovenia and dearly in Germany, and then complain when the Germans buy in Slovenia. Apple ran afoul of that a little while ago with their iTunes pricing structure, though I'm not sure how that turned out.

      --
      Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
    21. Re:What? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The same practices are done with prescription drugs. Pfizer does it all the time. The US pays for research and the rest of the world enjoys the cheap drugs. I think another country should take over since our dollar sucks.

    22. Re:What? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      LOL

      Not more Communist ...??

      What is a Bulletin to the Chimes government?

      It is a Bullet in the back of the head for those who disagree with China government !

      Try being verbal like that in China and see if you get away with it
      wise Up!

    23. Re:What? by mikael · · Score: 1

      China plans to relocate 300 million peasants in order to urbanize and create a middle-class. At the current rate of education graduation, they are producing 5 million graduates/year, so it might take 60 years.

      The biggest obstacle is going to be the consumption of oil. China produces 60% of all oil consumed in the country, but reserves are expected to run out in six years

      (Source: Teachers TV).

      --
      Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
    24. Re:What? by TheNarrator · · Score: 4, Interesting
      China's economic ideology is different from the west. Let me explain how:

      U.S
      * Banker makes loan to whoever they damn well please.
      * Loan doesn't get re-paid
      * Other bank takes over banks assets and screws depositors over 100k.
      China:
      * Banker makes loan to favored state owned company or other entity.
      * Loan doesn't get re-paid.
      * Government recapitalizes bank.

      U.S
      * Banker makes a bunch of questionable bad loans
      * Retires with golden parachute package
      China
      * Banker makes a bunch of questionable bad loans
      * Banker is executed by government

      U.S
      * Bankers en masse make loans to fund housing/stock bubble
      * Government runs to see how they can loosen regulations to help the banks make exponentially more money and profit
      * Bubble bursts, banks are bailed out by government discount window loans, TAF, TSLF,etc

      China
      * Bankers en masse make loans to fund housing/stock bubble
      * About 1 year after it gets going government raises real estate transfer tax or stock trading taxes and bank reserve requirements to purpousefully punish the speculators.
      * Bankers who make ridiculous corrupt loans are executed. Some banks who didn't get swept up in the bubble keep operating as usual

      Long story short. In China, unlike in America, the politicians actually have far more control of the economic activity in their country than the bankers do.

    25. Re:What? by thewils · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It's because the the IOC like the secrecy of the Chinese Government better than any democracy. The worst games for the IOC were Lillehammer where everything was in the open - including the bribes paid to IOC officials to host the games.

      --
      Once I was a four stone apology. Now I am two separate gorillas.
    26. Re:What? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You might be right because
      A liberal kook Judge in UK/ canada or Australia is liable to extradite a citizen of those countries to China to answer charges for writing something unfavorable about China right here today so to that end maybe China isn't so bad,

    27. Re:What? by Quattro+Vezina · · Score: 3, Informative

      There is very little difference between fascism and communism.

      Both ideologies claim that society is greater than the individual. Both ideologies condemn all actions that don't benefit society as a whole. Both ideologies support environmentalism.

      The difference? Communism sees society as encompassing all humanity, while fascism sees each state as its own society. Fascism is prone to nationalist posturing, while communism isn't.

      Both fascism and communism oppose free-market capitalism. Fascism refers to an ideology called "corporatism", but that has nothing to do with corporations in the modern sense; the "corporations" in corporatism are basically trade guilds. Corporatism is about both putting society under the control of a collective, and tying such collectives into the state. It fits in with the whole "society as a whole" model, with each function of society overseen by its own collective, and all the collectives are part of a larger collective (i.e. the state).

      China isn't really fascist; they allow multinational corporations to do business there, which real fascists would condemn. If China was fascist, they wouldn't let even local companies practice unfettered capitalism the way they do. A fascist state wouldn't let Chinese companies pollute as much as they do, nor would they let the companies do things like put lead paint into toys.

      Now, I'm not defending fascism in any way. I'm a staunch individualist, and I despise both fascism and communism. My point is that China isn't really any more fascist than they are communist. Well, they do more than their share of hyper-nationalist posturing, but that's about it. China is simply a totalitarian state that tolerates capitalism. The free market is the one exception to China's totalitarian control over their people.

      --
      I support the Center for Consumer Freedom
    28. Re:What? by NeuroManson · · Score: 1

      Good thing there isn't a (-1 Godwin) mod, or else I wouldn't be able to point out that Germany hosting the Olympics didn't effect Hitler much either.

      Everyone's perfectly fine with facism, as long as they get their bread and circuses. Look at how many dictatorships promote the Hell out of their soccer teams, for example.

      --
      Just because you can mod me down, doesn't mean you're right. Shoes for industry!
    29. Re:What? by rujholla · · Score: 1

      It doesn't matter anyway -- noone will be able to afford the tickets to fly over there with oil at $200/barrel.

    30. Re:What? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      These Games could (hopefully will) end up being the biggest clusterfuck in the history of the Olympics. Oooh, an orgy!
    31. Re:What? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nationalism is how the communists won the revolution. Read Chalmers Johnson's Peasant Nationalism and Communist Power.

    32. Re:What? by Daishiman · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No, you pay more because you don't have large institutions negotiating the price on drugs on larga scale (such as countries with nationalized health care), and because your insurance companies rape you for them, as their interests are aligned with those of the insurers. That, and the fact that the FDA functions in a completely innefficient manner.

      Do remember that a lot of big pharma is based on Europe. Take Novartis for example.

    33. Re:What? by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF · · Score: 1

      What use would Communist China have for anti-Trust laws China isn't any more communist than for example the UK, Canada or Australia.

      The term "communist" is confusing here because it refers to two very different things. The first use is a political term, referring to politicians who (confusingly) claim their end goal is to implement an extreme socialist economic system. That is the manner in which China was communist, although while that was the original claim of the communist party in China, they have since changed their position considerably. Consider it to be similar to the way the Democratic party in the US actually works against reforms that would lead to a more direct democracy in the US (or making their own nomination process more a republic by empowering super-delegates as representatives over direct election).

      The second usage of the term "communist" is as an economic model, which China has always been to some degree. As an economic term, it simply refers to groups of people pooling and sharing some or all resources and labor. These groups are called cells. A cell might be a monastery, commune, or co-op... but the most common cell is a family or extended family. China is more communist than the US (larger extended families). What has been changing is they have gradually becoming less socialist, and more capitalist, as more industry moves from government ownership to private ownership. It is on these terms that China is enforcing anti-trust laws (which are designed to prevent trusts and monopolies owned by private parties from abusing that power in a way that undermines the benefits such capitalism brings).

    34. Re:What? by level_headed_midwest · · Score: 1

      It's no problem to sell your goods to different people in different areas for a different price, but it IS a problem to block the resulting arbitrage due to resale.

      --
      Just "gittin-r-done," day after day.
    35. Re:What? by Bert64 · · Score: 1

      They're displacing people in London too, for the Olympics due in 2012...

      --
      http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
    36. Re:What? by Bert64 · · Score: 1

      That's fine, China has sufficient population to fill the stadiums anyway.
      Expensive oil just means that only the rich will go, and they wont need to fight through crowds of "peasants" to get there.

      --
      http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
    37. Re:What? by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF · · Score: 1

      But that is what doesn't make sense. Last time I checked Microsoft charged less for Windows in China than in the US not more.

      Yup. It's called differential pricing. It is indicator that MS is charging as much as they can squeeze a given person for, instead of a price determined by the quality of the product in comparison to competing offerings. Any economist would see such a thing and have to look into the mechanism as to why, it is not a free, capitalist market operating. When you look even a little closer you see how MS has taken actions to make sure competitors are not allowed to compete on their merits with MS using their monopoly to create artificial problems. Then you see how MS has purposely kept the Web crippled to avoid it enabling competitors to bypass MS's artificial problems. At that point the law has clearly been broken and MS is sucking down a lot of cash in the process. If MS is demanding the other laws be enforced to insure they get paid for copies of Windows, then they have to expect their own very profitable criminal acts to be paid for and more importantly, stopped from happening in future.

    38. Re:What? by Bert64 · · Score: 1

      No, they just monitor it instead...
      You don't know if someone is doing something they shouldn't if you stop them from doing it...
      If you let them do it and keep watch, you can punish them for it later.

      --
      http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
    39. Re:What? by Bert64 · · Score: 1

      Shipping is rather irrelevant when it's simply digital data... Most users don't get physical media, they just get a "license code".

      --
      http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
    40. Re:What? by Cyberax · · Score: 1

      They were not the same, far from it.

      Outward appearances were similar, but not the internal structure.

      For example, the owners of corporations in fascism had a great personal wealth. In Stalinist USSR the richest people were not really that wealthy by current US or Russian standards.

      Also, Stalinist USSR _was_ a socialistic state - during Stalin's reign conditions of work and life rose above the pre-revolution levels. In fascist Germany conditions of life fell.

    41. Re:What? by Darkness404 · · Score: 1

      China has Linux though. Linux makes it easy for China to number 1 A) stop the US/UK/etc. from putting pressure on them for not enforcing copyright B) Export the software (via the Internet) and C) get economically ahead by using a more secure and newer OS then the rest of the world using MS. So basically, I think China is not saying "don't pirate Windows" but rather saying "move on to Linux".

      --
      Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
    42. Re:What? by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      ...no worse than the Berlin games really.

      Any OSU sprinters up to the challenge of annoying the Chinese head of state?

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    43. Re:What? by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      Well the Soviets just cut out the middlemen. The state owned all the
      companies and party cronies got to take advantage of the benefits of
      ownership that would have been enjoyed by non-party members in Germany.

      In both systems you were likely to be liquidated if you had something
      the state wanted really badly or weren't a member of the party faithful.

      The Germans also started out with a much more mature economy. The Russians
      spent a lot of time just playing catch-up with the West.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    44. Re:What? by Hal_Porter · · Score: 1

      Also, Stalinist USSR _was_ a socialistic state - during Stalin's reign conditions of work and life rose above the pre-revolution levels. That's true, but it's also very misleading. Once the revolution occured there was civil war, collectivisation, mass starvation and so on. That went on almost up to WWII. In the Ukraine, the Nazis were actually greeted as liberators by the survivors of the Holodomor. They weren't of course, they had a Holodomor of their own planned to free up land for Aryan colonists but they didn't stay long enough to implement it. Now maybe during the war Stalin realised he needed to stop doing shit like this and so the economy recovered back to pre 1917 levels.

      But put that way, it doesn't sound as socialist does it? Socialism in Western Europe usually means high taxes, high public spending and moving power from employers to employees. Sending the militia out to confiscate grain from peasants until millions of them starve is not really socialism. More to the point collectivisation, the policy that Stalin killed millions to implement essentially turned the peasants back into serfs or even slaves, forced to work on land they didn't own. They didn't work very hard of course, hence the gunpoint confiscation of grain and animals. Essentially the workers lost rights, which is why they resisted so hard.

      In the UK the workers formed unions and the unions formed the Labour Party which granted the unions more rights. The Labour Party in government was actually very hostile to the USSR model.
      --
      echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
    45. Re:What? by Cyberax · · Score: 1

      In the Ukraine, the Nazis were actually greeted as liberators by the survivors of the Holodomor. And that's why Kiev (where I live now, BTW) was given the 'Hero City' status after the WWII? Sure, there were people who defected to Hitler forces, particularly from west parts of Ukraine (which always were anti-Russian). But that was a small part of Ukrainian population.
       
       

      Now maybe during the war Stalin realised he needed to stop doing shit like this and so the economy recovered back to pre 1917 levels. Nope. Economic rose to pre-1917 level shortly before the WWII.

      As for 'socialism' - obviously it was different from European capitalistic socialism.

      And I'm not defending Stalin. I'm just telling that fascism and Stalin-style socialism were two very different ideologies.
    46. Re:What? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      I'm warming to this executing bankers concept; can
      I join the Chinese Communist party?

    47. Re:What? by zippthorne · · Score: 1

      Indeed. In much the same way as Aquafina and Dasani are two very different beverages.

      --
      Can you be Even More Awesome?!
    48. Re:What? by The+Dobber · · Score: 1

      You actually believe that?

      Good god

    49. Re:What? by NuclearBovineBoy · · Score: 1

      You're totally right. They aren't communist. What they are is fascist. We Godwin here a bit fast, don't we? ;-) Seriously, the Chinese federal government has done way more good in terms of disaster relief than the U.S. gov't has EVER done in most of our lifetimes. Corruption and abuse always happen at middle levels of government in any country (remember the FEMA trailers?), and we Americans tend to send our soldiers to faraway places to kill foreign people, rather than keeping them home to deal with disasters.
    50. Re:What? by Z34107 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Most banks in America are FDIC insured. Post-Great Depression, can you name an instance where banks loaning money too generously resulted in "screw[ing] depositors over 100k?" Does this happen often? And does this happen because banks are pressued to make loans to "the little guy," whatever the current definition of that term is?

      How many bank executives can you name that retired with a "golden parachute package" after failing at banking? Were they forced to retire, perhaps by the board of directors? Does that not sound like a clear case of "the system works?"

      "Bankers en masse make loans to fund housing/stock bubble"... You realize that the housing bubble screws banks out of any money related to mortages? Y'know, how this "housing bubble" you say those evil bankers made involves them being stuck with a devalued house and a bad loan? I can see how they had to scheme hard for that deal - it must go all the way to the highest levels of our government!

      Continue living in ignorance, and tell me where you cash your paychecks and keep your savings. I'll be happy to call you a hypocrite.

      --
      DATABASE WOW WOW
    51. Re:What? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, clever. By your warped definition of communism they probably aren't but you're forgetting that they follow marxist ideology which never said that the path to communist utopia was immediate but would require intermediate steps.

      Funny how when the conversations are about the attrocities commited by communist states, apologists always point out how "not communist" those self-styled communist states are but when the conversation topic is about politics in general the same apologists will always defend the exact same states because they are communist.

    52. Re:What? by TapeCutter · · Score: 1

      "Isn't it global anti-trust to sell a product for less in one country than you do another? Is there such a thing? Who would bring down the hammer on such things?"

      The closest thing to it would be anti-dumping laws but selling at different prices in different areas is not against the law in most countries, check out prices at the same supermarket chain in different parts of your city. Implementing and monitoring such laws for all goods and services would bring down the hammer, unfortunately it would land on the economy.

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
    53. Re:What? by bds1986 · · Score: 1

      Unless the banker(s) are the sons of senior Communist Party officials, in which case the mistake will be blamed on a subordinate without political connections, who will then be executed instead. The only reason the politicians have control over economic activity is because the Chinese government owns most of it. Most areas of the Chinese economy are dominated by state-owned firms.

    54. Re:What? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ironically, "le Roi de Prusse" was a Napoleon-era idiom for "nothing." (ie. "he is doing such things for the king of Prussia")

    55. Re:What? by nog_lorp · · Score: 1

      Communists and Communist countries have disagreed for the history of Communism what Communism means, and whether others are Communist. I think "proclaiming self-Communism" is an important part of defining such an entity. Otherwise you just end up getting into bitch fights about who is more Marxist.

  3. How about an antitrust probe of the government? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Next I hope is an antitrust probe of the Chinese government in business.

  4. Abnormal? by Xelios · · Score: 2, Funny

    "set unreasonably high prices for genuine software while on the other hand, they criticise Chinese for poor copyright awareness. This is abnormal"

    Actually, that sounds pretty normal to me.

    --
    Murphey's fighting Occam, and we're in the stands.
    1. Re:Abnormal? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      because your brain is frozen, isn't it?

  5. Par for the course by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Don't read too much into the story. All it means is one more high party official is looking to get his share of payments to the top officials in China. Once a few million $ are safely handed over, the probe will be frozen, to be thawed only during the negotiations of the next payment.

    --
    sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
    1. Re:Par for the course by cduffy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      My distinct impression was that most of the corruption in the Chinese government was closer to the local level. Do you have any solid information to the contrary?

    2. Re:Par for the course by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Most != ALL

      Local corruption is blatant but you negotiate with the corrupt party directly openly discussing the quids for the pro quos. Higher you go, complex it gets. Often you deal with intermediaries, and you are not sure if they really represent the official they claim to represent, what is given and what is expected gets lost in translation.

      And of course, I don't have any evidence. That is par for the course in slashdot. Announcements like this is a typical way to authenticate the official bribe taker. The bribee would have already contacted the other side, hinted that an announcement is coming to show that he in the loop. The comminique would include subtle pointers to show that this is not a low level typist who is trying to make a fast buck. Like a escape clause or way out suggested by the potential briber. Now that the bribee has been authenticated the negotiations can proceed. Usually if it has escalated to press release level, it means the stakes have been raised and they are playing hard ball.

      And I don't have any evidence. That is par for the course in slashdot.

      --
      sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
    3. Re:Par for the course by kabocox · · Score: 1

      Most != ALL

      Local corruption is blatant but you negotiate with the corrupt party directly openly discussing the quids for the pro quos. Higher you go, complex it gets. Often you deal with intermediaries, and you are not sure if they really represent the official they claim to represent, what is given and what is expected gets lost in translation.


      Isn't that how all government every where works?

  6. The Microsoft Lottery by suck_burners_rice · · Score: 4, Insightful

    In other words, China is jumping on the bandwagon of countries that is playing the "Sue Microsoft Lottery" to get some extra cash. I mean, I don't like Microsoft's products, particularly their operating systems, because I think they've completely lost touch with what a computer is supposed to do, but when it comes down to it, it's our fault, not Microsoft's, that their junk software is so ingrained in the entire computing industry. We are the ones who vote with our dollars, and so, if you don't like Microsoft, or their software doesn't get the job done for you, then don't pay them your money. But don't wine and complain about them either. And certainly don't play the Microsoft lottery. That's ridiculous.

    --
    McCain/Palin '08. Now THAT's hope and change!
    1. Re:The Microsoft Lottery by BlueParrot · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I have an alternative interpretation.

      If you don't like the rules in the country you try to do business in, then don't do business there, and don't whine when their courts fine you for breaking them. Or perhaps this issue is a little bit more complex than a one sentence argument?

    2. Re:The Microsoft Lottery by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 1
      But don't wine and complain about them either. And certainly don't play the Microsoft lottery. That's ridiculous.

      I know you meant whine, not wine and I am not a typo nazi either. But in this instance to wine is a perfectly decent response to the complaint. To wine means use wine to move your critical MS-win based exe files to Linux and stop the upgrade treadmill.

      --
      sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
    3. Re:The Microsoft Lottery by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      if you don't like Microsoft, or their software doesn't get the job done for you, then don't pay them your money. But don't wine and complain about them either.


      I don't like Windows, but need to run my Excel spreadsheets. Now that Wine just had its 1.0 release, I did intend to Wine about it.
    4. Re:The Microsoft Lottery by RiotingPacifist · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You clearly dont have a clue about anti-competitive practices of Microsoft and how monopolies & cartels stop market forces working, meaning that "We are the ones who vote with our dollars, and so, if you don't like Microsoft, or their software doesn't get the job done for you, then don't pay them your money." doesn't really apply when there is no other option.

      --
      IranAir Flight 655 never forget!
    5. Re:The Microsoft Lottery by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      In other news, it is rumored that the Duchy of Grand Fenwick is exploring the options regarding an anti-trust action against Microsoft.

    6. Re:The Microsoft Lottery by suck_burners_rice · · Score: 1

      Thanks for the spelling correction. I wrote whine incorrectly (thinking that it's spelled wine) and then thought to make a Wine-related pun, but forgot. So you fixed both. :-)

      --
      McCain/Palin '08. Now THAT's hope and change!
    7. Re:The Microsoft Lottery by wattrlz · · Score: 1

      I don't know... does the great firewall block openoffice.org ?

    8. Re:The Microsoft Lottery by zappepcs · · Score: 1

      Clearly, there are a LOT of people that believe there is far too much software piracy going on in China. I'm not qualified to argue, but it occurs to me that if there is, nothing is lost if you try selling your product at a reasonable price rather than one that inspires piracy. If you make only 35% of what you wanted to make, but your end up with 85% less piracy, don't you actually increase profits? Sure, I made those numbers up because MS has never tried it so there is no effective examples to cite.

      Point is, not reacting to the problem in a positive way will only exacerbate the issue, and in this case cause more support for Linux. Perhaps Red Flag Linux will see this as a win for themselves. It's difficult to pirate something that is free, but you can try. Perhaps Ubuntu needs to set a price on distribution to China? That inverse logic stuff.

    9. Re:The Microsoft Lottery by King_TJ · · Score: 1

      Essentially, you're correct, but I think the motivation is closer to what another previous poster stated. China is trying to ensure they're in the best possible position, if they're going to be pushed "up against the wall" by other nations like the U.S.A. to enforce copyright law.

      In countries like ours, sure, most people "pirate" a few things here and there without a lot of guilt. But if you asked the average American citizen if doing so was "wrong" or not, they'd TYPICALLY categorize it as "wrong" - with some sort of justification for doing it anyway. (EG. Well, it's not really "right".... but I did buy 10 movies already this year, so they got enough of my money. Or, "It's illegal, but that damn recording industry keeps screwing over the artists - so this is my way of getting back at them!")

      I really don't think Asian cultures (Chinese, Vietnamese, etc.) think this way. They really feel that "If you're able to get a copy, then you can have a copy." As just one example, my g/f went to get her nails done recently at a Vietnamese salon. The newly released in theaters, "Iron Man", was showing on the TV for their customers to watch while they got their nails done!

    10. Re:The Microsoft Lottery by IGnatius+T+Foobar · · Score: 2

      In other words, China is jumping on the bandwagon of countries that is playing the "Sue Microsoft Lottery" to get some extra cash.
      And I say, good for them. Microsoft has a decades-long history of lying, cheating, stealing, and generally screwing over the rest of the world in order to rake megabucks into their war chest. Therefore I have absolutely no sympathy when someone else screws them. If they want to play dirty then let the rest of the world play dirty against them. I hope the whole world has their chance to sue Microsoft for no good reason.
      --
      Tired of FB/Google censorship? Visit UNCENSORED!
    11. Re:The Microsoft Lottery by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      No other option like Linux or OSX which all the fanboys claim is superior anyways? What's the problem?

    12. Re:The Microsoft Lottery by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 2, Interesting

      This is lost.

      If they show that they can sell Windows for a profit at $20 a copy in China, it's the beginning of the end for charging $300 a copy elsewhere. The fact is that an extra copy at $1 is profitable for them.

      So they want to sell all the $300 copies, then all the $200 copies, then all the ... $20 copies. To maximize their profits. So they have to manage perceptions. Folks are already balking at their quality/prices.

      --
      She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
    13. Re:The Microsoft Lottery by Hassman · · Score: 2, Insightful

      But when the country is China? Come on. China! Like ANYONE or ANY company could get a fair trial there. There are no human rights, what makes you think that large non-govt. corporations will have any?

      --
      -Mark
      Dovie'andi se tovya sagain.
    14. Re:The Microsoft Lottery by adavies42 · · Score: 1

      If you don't like the rules in the country you try to do business in, then don't do business there, and don't whine when their courts fine you for breaking them. There are definitely times I wish Microsoft would just shrug. Of course, that would require that Gates (or Ballmer or whoever) have some actual moral integrity....
      --
      Media that can be recorded and distributed can be recorded and distributed.
      -kfg
    15. Re:The Microsoft Lottery by Foofoobar · · Score: 1

      In this case I'd have to agree. Not a big Microsoft fan but China has never been one to really enforce anti-piracy. So now they want their cake and to eat it too? Come on. That's like telling the landlord to turn back on the heat or else your going to not pay him rent again next month.

      --
      This is my sig. There are many like it but this one is mine.
    16. Re:The Microsoft Lottery by DriedClexler · · Score: 1

      If you don't like the rules in the country you try to do business in, then don't do business there, and don't whine when their courts fine you for breaking them. Hey, GREAT point. If I don't like the rules there, I can just avoid doing business there.

      Now, what should I do about countries where the REAL rules are "Normally, we'll be enforce the published laws, but if you get too profitable, well do whatever the hell we want, and rationalize it in the most plausible way" ?
      --
      Information theory is life. The rest is just the KL divergence.
    17. Re:The Microsoft Lottery by freemywrld · · Score: 1

      "I don't know... does the great firewall block openoffice.org ? "

      Does openoffice.org offer a localized Chinese (or other non-english) language version(s) (I'm honestly asking)? If not, this may be a limiting factor for adoption in foreign language markets.

    18. Re:The Microsoft Lottery by meringuoid · · Score: 1
      Now, what should I do about countries where the REAL rules are "Normally, we'll be enforce the published laws, but if you get too profitable, well do whatever the hell we want, and rationalize it in the most plausible way" ?

      That would be 'all of them'. And if that's a problem, it's one that most people would dearly love to have.

      --
      Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
    19. Re:The Microsoft Lottery by Mongoose+Disciple · · Score: 1

      If they want to play dirty then let the rest of the world play dirty against them. I hope the whole world has their chance to sue Microsoft for no good reason.

      Yeah, because two wrongs clearly make a right.

      Doing wrong even to those who do wrong to you always comes back around. Not because any sense of karma or universal justice, but because nothing in the world happens in a vacuum, and there are always consequences.

    20. Re:The Microsoft Lottery by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      One of the things I don't understand is why the governments don't try to regular some type of standard for the computer industry. Example: a minimum document standard that works with all word processing or a set of api call that all games can use. You can always add more function as well as better optimization for the api calls. However, maybe the government are waiting for the market to do this on its own; not likely.

    21. Re:The Microsoft Lottery by BlueParrot · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I think you have understood my point perfectly, thou you didn't attribute it to me. Claiming "the solution" is as simple as the parent of my post did is naive at best. It doesn't matter if you are arguing in favor of anti trust laws or against them, pretending that the issue is merely a matter of "if you don't like it, don't take part in it" is naive at best. This applies just as well to customers at the mercy of a supplier as it applies to companies that are at the mercy of the local laws. My point was simply that if you are going to expect customers to grin and bear it without complaining, then companies should expect the same treatment from the government. As any sane person would be able to rapidly deduce, this is not really a practical way to do things, and thus the "if you don't like it don't use it" argument is nonsense. There is no reason why customers should "just not use it" if they are unhappy with a product, the same way there is no reason why a company should "just not do business there" if they dislike the local laws. The important thing is to realize that you either accept both of these claims or neither. What Microsoft is doing is claiming they should be allowed to use whatever shady business practices they want, while simultaneously arguing that governments have some moral obligation to not interfere. They seem to have this idea that they are entitled to stronger legal protections than the customers that buy their software.

    22. Re:The Microsoft Lottery by colinrichardday · · Score: 1

      Are Gates and Ballmer that critical to Microsoft that the software giant would not be profitable without them? Its stock price might take a hit if the two left, but would there be lasting damage?

    23. Re:The Microsoft Lottery by Reality+Master+201 · · Score: 1

      You fail for citing an Ayn Rand book - objectivisim == immediate fail.

      Apart from that, I too would love it if Microsoft decided to deliberately commit suicide and bow out of the future of computing. They'd be replaced in a matter of two years, if that.

    24. Re:The Microsoft Lottery by supervillainsf · · Score: 2, Informative

      Yes, they do and it looks pretty good. See http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/06/02/1236237

    25. Re:The Microsoft Lottery by monxrtr · · Score: 1

      Exactly, Microsoft (and Hollywood and the Pharmaceutical Industry) operates more like China than they care to admit. They are in favor of free trade for themselves, to outsource jobs and their products, but against free trade for consumers, by restricting the buying and selling and resourcing (re-importation) of their products.

      They create a completely artificial non-free market arbitrage black market profit criminal and terrorist financing opportunity by selling their products for different prices in different places. Who creates these black markets like the War on Drugs? Governments and corporations who interfere with free trade. Notice how they also don't consider infringing on your right of free association and your right to freely and peaceably trade with whomever you want to whenever you want to an infringing violation of your property and person rights.

      Also note that central banks are by far the biggest counterfeiters in the world. We should be sure to apply the forthcoming imaginary property penalty upgrades to the bankers ripping off the world with their illegal confiscatory money value debt and inflation taxation. Time to get Nuremberg ready to try the international bankers, and redistribute their assets in whole to the people they have robbed as reparations. No asylum for international central bankers, thank you ready made asset freezing laws.

      P.S. The price for absolutely everything is %100 pure speculation. Consider that an economic fact of the day.

      --
      "From DNA to P2P, we are all Copycats now. Go Go Copycat Power! Copycat Powers activate! Form of, a Copycat." --monxrtr
    26. Re:The Microsoft Lottery by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh get over yourself you pampered little piece of shit. You don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

    27. Re:The Microsoft Lottery by magarity · · Score: 1

      The fact is that an extra copy at $1 is profitable for them
       
      While the marginal contribution of an additional sale at $1 is $1, selling 500 million copies worldwide at $1 wouldn't cover the salaries of the thousands of software engineers they have on staff. So while there's a certain point where after so many sales the price can be lowered, that discount can't be extended back to all copies from the start.

    28. Re:The Microsoft Lottery by maestroX · · Score: 1

      But when the country is China? Come on. China! Like ANYONE or ANY company could get a fair trial there. There are no human rights, what makes you think that large non-govt. corporations will have any?
      Oh please. I heard no complaints about the outsourcing to cheapo labour.

      Microsoft plays unfair, China plays unfair, China taxes microsoft, microsoft taxes consumer. The game is business, not ethics.

    29. Re:The Microsoft Lottery by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF · · Score: 1

      I mean, I don't like Microsoft's products, particularly their operating systems, because I think they've completely lost touch with what a computer is supposed to do, but when it comes down to it, it's our fault, not Microsoft's, that their junk software is so ingrained in the entire computing industry.

      Similarly, when we buy recycled metal from the Queens Scrap Metal company it s our own fault, for not investigation them, finding out they are owned by the Mafia, killed off the people running the rival scrap metal businesses, paid off politicians and cops to ignore them, and consequently charge more. I mean, we can't expect companies to obey the laws or the police to do their jobs. It's really our fault. We're the ones who vote with our dollars and because we don't pay more to have our metal shipped from another state (several times the trucks keep getting hijacked) we're to blame for the situation. Please stop whining and complaining about the mafia. It's ridiculous.

    30. Re:The Microsoft Lottery by fuzznutz · · Score: 1

      In other words, China is jumping on the bandwagon of countries that is playing the "Sue Microsoft Lottery" to get some extra cash

      Dude. That's called Karma. When you work so hard to intentionally screw others, (competitors, customers, employees, etc.) it's bound to come back on you. Microsoft is reaping what they have sown...

      Why do you think Bill Gates is working so hard to be Mr. Nice Guy with his foundation lately?
    31. Re:The Microsoft Lottery by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF · · Score: 1

      No other option like Linux or OSX which all the fanboys claim is superior anyways? What's the problem?

      The problem is even if they are objectively superior, they aren't superior to the end user because through use of a monopoly MS can introduce artificial problems with those competing products in ways that are detrimental to end users. The free market works because people act in their own best, financial interests. With a monopoly you can make sure people's best financial interests are to use your product, even if it is inferior to other offerings. At that point, generally, innovation slows to a slow crawl because it's cheaper to get sales by breaking compatibility with your competitors than doing real work. That's why 90% of users still don't have a single spell checker that can work in all their programs, even though such technology was for sale by a competitor a decade ago.

    32. Re:The Microsoft Lottery by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF · · Score: 1

      If they want to play dirty then let the rest of the world play dirty against them. I hope the whole world has their chance to sue Microsoft for no good reason. Yeah, because two wrongs clearly make a right.

      Actually, China does have good reason. MS is breaking the law the same as they've been convicted of breaking it in the US. If someone runs a fraud operation and hits people in multiple countries should one of those countries ignore it if part of the money was recovered and given back in a different country? How does that help their citizens who have been hurt?

      Doing wrong even to those who do wrong to you always comes back around. Not because any sense of karma or universal justice, but because nothing in the world happens in a vacuum, and there are always consequences.

      In this case, we're talking about business. The more antitrust abuse hurts MS the better, because the consequence of that may well be to provide MS with incentive to stop doing it.

    33. Re:The Microsoft Lottery by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF · · Score: 1

      In this case I'd have to agree. Not a big Microsoft fan but China has never been one to really enforce anti-piracy.

      China has also never been much for enforcing copyright either. MS has been pressuring them using US politicians to enforce copyright law, which will cost chinese citizens money. How can they complain then, if China also enforces another law they usually ignore. MS is the one who wants to be treated as a special case.

    34. Re:The Microsoft Lottery by freemywrld · · Score: 1

      Very cool - thanks for the info! :-)

    35. Re:The Microsoft Lottery by Mattsson · · Score: 1
      --
      /.Mattsson - My native language is not English, so please don't whine over linguistic errors. (That's lame anyway...)
    36. Re:The Microsoft Lottery by drsmithy · · Score: 1

      At that point, generally, innovation slows to a slow crawl because it's cheaper to get sales by breaking compatibility with your competitors than doing real work.

      Which explains why Windows has remained unchanged and unimproved since the early 1990s.

      Oh, wait, it hasn't.

      That's why 90% of users still don't have a single spell checker that can work in all their programs, even though such technology was for sale by a competitor a decade ago.

      If Microsoft provided a spellchecker component with Windows, people like you would be screaming antitrust at the top of their lungs, just like they do about every other piece of functionality Windows provides.

    37. Re:The Microsoft Lottery by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      ...some 60 year old grandma that does little more than surf the web
      will end up fixated on being "incompatable" with "all of her word
      docs". This will keep her tied down to Windows and Office affraid
      to try anything else.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    38. Re:The Microsoft Lottery by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 1

      I agree.

      So as a person currently being "gouged" for $100 a copy so they can sell it to a person in china or india for $20, I want the price to rationalize at $35 a copy for everyone as soon as possible. And it pisses me off that I have to compete for work against people who pay Microsoft less for their O.S. and I.D.E.

      --
      She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
    39. Re:The Microsoft Lottery by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF · · Score: 1

      At that point, generally, innovation slows to a slow crawl because it's cheaper to get sales by breaking compatibility with your competitors than doing real work. Which explains why Windows has remained unchanged and unimproved since the early 1990s. Oh, wait, it hasn't.

      No it hasn't. It slows innovation, rather than stops it completely. You'll note they've mostly integrated features from other markets and added anti-features like DRM.

      If Microsoft provided a spellchecker component with Windows, people like you would be screaming antitrust at the top of their lungs, just like they do about every other piece of functionality Windows provides.

      They'd have no real grounds. MS has implemented dozens of integrations that are clear-cut antitrust abuse, but since there is no separate, existing market for a universally available spell checker that I know of, they don't have to worry about that. It is a real innovation they could add, one of many. But MS has done very little to actually advance the state of the art for operating systems.

    40. Re:The Microsoft Lottery by Foofoobar · · Score: 1

      Sorry... not going to convince me of that after Microsoft has filed several new lawsuits against people pirating their software in several countries, they go after patent infringers and protect their IP like a rabid dog. You'll have to do better than that to convince me that a multiBILLION dollar corporation like Microsoft doesn't like it's money.

      --
      This is my sig. There are many like it but this one is mine.
    41. Re:The Microsoft Lottery by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF · · Score: 1

      Did you, perhaps, reply to the wrong post?

    42. Re:The Microsoft Lottery by jc42 · · Score: 1

      ..some 60 year old grandma that does little more than surf the web will end up fixated on being "incompatable" with "all of her word docs".

      Huh? If all she does is surf the web, most of her files will be in HTML (or GIF or JPEG or PDF or MP3) format. Where would she get the Word docs? Yeah, there are a few here and there on the web, but not very many. Most people who run web sites, even if they believe the claim that 90% of the people use Windows, still don't want to lock out 10% of their potential customers, so they convert things like .doc files to .htm or .pdf files before putting them online.

      If all you're using the Internet for is web and email, you have no strong motive to favor any particular sort of computer system. They all do web surfing and email pretty well these days.

      And if you run across a file that doesn't look right on your screen, you can always forward it to your gmail account, where there's software that can convert it to a standard format. (That's mostly what I use my gmail account for. ;-)

      --
      Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
    43. Re:The Microsoft Lottery by drsmithy · · Score: 1

      No it hasn't. It slows innovation, rather than stops it completely. You'll note they've mostly integrated features from other markets and added anti-features like DRM.

      No, I won't, because it simply isn't true.

      There are numerous features that Windows has added before various "competitors" (which - realistically - include Linux, MacOS [X] and OS/2). Pre-emptive multitasking, SMP, an O(1) scheduler, a journalled filesystem, ACL-based security, to name but a few.

      Indeed, one can quite reasonably argue that OSes like Linux and OS X have "copied" at least as many features from Windows, as Windows has from them.

      Further, DRM isn't an "anti-feature". At worst, it's irrelevant (you have no DRM-encumbered content). At best, it's a distinctly useful feature because it allows you to access said DRM-encumbered content.

      To be blunt, your assertion that Windows has "slowed innovation" has _zero_ supporting evidence, to the point of being laughably inaccurate. Especially given that, as of now, pretty much all the mainstream, mass-market OSes have arrived at essentially the same basic feature set, at around the same time (+/- a year or two).

      They'd have no real grounds. MS has implemented dozens of integrations that are clear-cut antitrust abuse, but since there is no separate, existing market for a universally available spell checker that I know of, they don't have to worry about that. It is a real innovation they could add, one of many. But MS has done very little to actually advance the state of the art for operating systems.

      There's as much a "market" for spell checkers (most word processors come with them, to say nothing of things like aspell) as there was a "market" for web browsers in the mid 90s.

    44. Re:The Microsoft Lottery by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF · · Score: 1

      No, I won't, because it simply isn't true.

      Please. I won't argue how slowly things are progressing, but it sure isn't fast. Nine years ago I used to use voice commands to check my e-mail and have it read to me. Since then, voice commands have not improved significantly. But there is an easy market where we can see stagnation. How about Web technologies. IE partially supports 8 year old standards and fails to implement significantly anything since. For high-tech, that is extreme stagnation.

      Further, DRM isn't an "anti-feature". At worst, it's irrelevant (you have no DRM-encumbered content). At best, it's a distinctly useful feature because it allows you to access said DRM-encumbered content.

      Disabling or degrading the quality of video output is an anti-feature because no user wants that to happen. When your OS cripples itself because you upgraded your hardware that is an anti-feature. MS has enough power to stop DRM from negatively effecting their customers, but they don't because they don't need to because they don't compete with anyone.

      To be blunt, your assertion that Windows has "slowed innovation" has _zero_ supporting evidence...

      Please. Pick up an economics text for a change. Monopolies always slow innovation. There is plenty of evidence, but you'll never see it because you don't want to. You're the worst MS apologist I've ever heard. You don't seem interested in reason or evidence, just support for what you've already decided.

      Especially given that, as of now, pretty much all the mainstream, mass-market OSes have arrived at essentially the same basic feature set, at around the same time (+/- a year or two).

      There is only one mass market desktop OS. There are other major OS, just not in the OS market. The whole point is that innovation has slowed because investors are not motivated to put money into making better ones, because the market is monopolized.

      There's as much a "market" for spell checkers (most word processors come with them, to say nothing of things like aspell) as there was a "market" for web browsers in the mid 90s.

      Not true at all. There were several browsers for sale in the 90s and still more supported by advertising (which is a market). Aspell is nonprofit and not ad supported. Spell checkers built into other programs for other purposes are not the same market. We've ahd similar discussions before. You're just being intentionally obtuse because you just don't want to admit anything that might conflict with what you want to believe. It's rather sad.

    45. Re:The Microsoft Lottery by Foofoobar · · Score: 1

      You can't enforce laws and punish companies while also ignoring laws that would punish those who hurt componies. If this were a Chinese company and the US was doing this, not only would China be pissed but other countries would protest as well because it is blatantly corrupt. And to attempt to defend that policy is to attempt to defend their corruption.

      --
      This is my sig. There are many like it but this one is mine.
    46. Re:The Microsoft Lottery by Foofoobar · · Score: 1

      Yeah... total mispost.

      --
      This is my sig. There are many like it but this one is mine.
    47. Re:The Microsoft Lottery by drsmithy · · Score: 1

      Please. I won't argue how slowly things are progressing, but it sure isn't fast.

      Without a base from which to measure "fast" and "slow", your comment is meaningless.

      Nine years ago I used to use voice commands to check my e-mail and have it read to me. Since then, voice commands have not improved significantly.

      This is because - outside of the movies - the idea of "voice commands" is dumb (a cube farm full of people yelling at their computers - what a great idea !). To say nothing of the the lack of underlying language recognition systems that would make them actually useful.

      But there is an easy market where we can see stagnation.

      No, there is an easy market where we can see a complete and utter lack of interest from most people. About the only people who would seriously benefit from good voice commands are the severely disabled, and they are - unfortuantely - a minority too small to have much influence.

      "Voice commands" are like Minority Report-esque "holographic interfaces". They look cool in a movie, but in actual use they're crap.

      How about Web technologies. IE partially supports 8 year old standards and fails to implement significantly anything since. For high-tech, that is extreme stagnation.

      So TCP/IP is another example of "extreme stagnation" ? In many important ways the typical UNIX server looks the same today as it did thirty years ago. More stagnation ?

      Disabling or degrading the quality of video output is an anti-feature because no user wants that to happen.

      The alternative is not being able to view it at all. Between those two options, degraded output is not an "anti-feature".

      The degradation of DRM-encumbered content has _nothing_ to do with Microsoft. It's dicated by the people who license the technology necessary for viewing said content. A cheap, made-in-China appliance that Microsoft has never even heard of will do *exactly* the same thing because that's what they have to do according to the people who own the copyrights.

      MS has enough power to stop DRM from negatively effecting their customers, but they don't because they don't need to because they don't compete with anyone.

      Microsoft is a bit player in the content delivery marketplace. *Apple* has more influence than them. Exactly what "leverage" do you think they can apply to big media when the vast, vast, majority of people consume content through standalone appliances like iPods and DVD players ? "Do what we say or you'll lose the 0.5% of people who only watch HD movies on their computers" ? I really bet that had the *AAs quaking in their boots.

      Please. Pick up an economics text for a change. Monopolies always slow innovation.

      Reality frequently disagrees with the pseudo-scientific religion of economics (at least until the economists change their theories to reflect reality).

      There is plenty of evidence, but you'll never see it because you don't want to. You're the worst MS apologist I've ever heard. You don't seem interested in reason or evidence, just support for what you've already decided.

      You haven't provided any evidence. Just vague accusations. For example:

      You: Microsoft is a monopoly and has slowed innovation in the computing industry !
      Me: No it hasn't. Examples A, B and C.
      You: But it's happening slowly !
      Me: Compared to what ?
      You: I don't know ! It's just slower. It has to be, because my economics textbook says so !

      There is only one mass market desktop OS. There are other major OS, just not in the OS market. The whole point is that innovation has slowed because investors are not motivated to put money into making better ones, because the market is monopolized.

      Then why isn't any OS either vastly ahead or behind technologically ? Why did Microsoft continually improve their products both before (eg: Windows 95 vs MacOS Classic) - and in response to (Mac OS X vs Vista) - other vendor

  7. More communist lies by sheepofblue · · Score: 2, Insightful

    No they criticize China because you are a bunch of pirating communist scum. As to price manipulation being a bad thing... from a communist country that has practiced both price controls and currency manipulation. Not to mention the closed market.... This is just a chance for China to shake MS down.

    1. Re:More communist lies by Lord_Sintra · · Score: 1

      If Windows cost $1000 in the US, how many people do you think would buy legitimate copies of it? Consider ontop of that, that people in China are much poorer, on average, and maybe you'll start to see why people pirate.

    2. Re:More communist lies by stormguard2099 · · Score: 4, Funny

      and maybe you'll start to see why people pirate. because there's no year of the linux desktop on the chinese calendar?
      --
      http://greenobyl.com/ please.... think of the children!!
    3. Re:More communist lies by Hassman · · Score: 1

      Zoink!

      http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070803-shocker-microsoft-combats-chinese-piracy-via-major-price-cuts.html

      Guess again.

      Besides if they are too poor to buy Windows, how do they afford the computer to run it on?

      --
      -Mark
      Dovie'andi se tovya sagain.
    4. Re:More communist lies by nschubach · · Score: 1

      My argument is in an above thread on this issue. It shouldn't matter what the cost of living is in an area. Products should NOT be priced differently in different countries forcing one country to foot the bill for Microsoft's world domination. Why should the US/Europe/Japan have to pay more for something so they can sell their software for a really cheap price in China/Africa to undercut competition in those countries?

      That to me is anti-trust to a "T." In no way whatsoever would another company get away with this.

      --
      Every time I start to have faith in humanity, I ruin it by driving to work between 7 and 8 am.
    5. Re:More communist lies by Kelbear · · Score: 1

      "Yeah, it should. But we don't live in Shouldland. Ah, Shouldland, where clean-cut kids cruise Shouldland Boulevard, and the Shouldland High football team gets their optimistic asses kicked by their cross-town rival, Reality Check Tech."

      The phenomenon you're referring to is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_discrimination

      (Specifically, third-degree price discrimination)

      Whether it's ethical or not doesn't mean much, it's legal(in the US) unless it's predatory/anti-competitive(not easy to prove).

      And other companies get away with this alllll the time.

      Airlines and travel associated businesses charge you more for trying to book at the last minute, you can't substitute so you pay more.

      Ever buy food from a vendor where you can't go elsewhere? Buy food at an arena, a movie theatre, an amusement park, whereever you can't easily access food from somewhere else, they can charge more and still get you to pay.

      It is certainly illegal if they are charging less in order to drive a competitor out of business before raising prices again. But part of that competition is /free/ linux. They're not undercutting Linux.

      Of course they're douchebags, and price discrimination sucks, but it's quite common and legal(in the US).

    6. Re:More communist lies by tryfan · · Score: 1

      It's 2010: "The year of the Penguin".

    7. Re:More communist lies by BPPG · · Score: 1

      Maybe the money they spent on their computer is the reason they can't afford windows ;-)

      --
      What's the value of information that you don't know?
  8. Antitrust over the 1 copy of Windows? by fprintf · · Score: 5, Funny

    So there is an anti-trust investigation over the one legitimate copy of Windows in China?

    --
    This post brought to you by your friendly neighborhood MBA.
    1. Re:Antitrust over the 1 copy of Windows? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Microsoft must have charged that one person 15 Yuan to undercut all the Chinese vendors selling Windows CDs for 20 Yuan. Clearly they're looking to drive the Chinese vendors out of business so they can then jack up the price. The Chinese government can't allow those kinds of blatant monopolistic practices without first being properly bribed.

  9. Not First Post by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    In other news Microsoft is seeking an injunction against the FOSS community for unfair competition practices. "It is entirely unfair that they offer their software at such unreasonable prices. The pricing policy of not charging users for the applications they use severely impacts our market penetration.", a Microsoft Sales Representative said.

    1. Re:Not First Post by zapakh · · Score: 3, Informative

      In other news Microsoft is seeking an injunction against the FOSS community for unfair competition practices. This is an old sentiment. From the Halloween Document of the eponymous date in 1998:

      Linux distributors, such as RedHat, Caldera, and others, are expressly willing to fund full time developers who release all their work to the OSS community. By simultaneously funding these efforts, Red Hat and Caldera are implicitly colluding and believe they'll make more short term revenue by growing the Linux market rather than directly competing with each other.
    2. Re:Not First Post by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Good Omnipotent Invisible Being! Mod Parent Up!

  10. no right complaining by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When you pay $5 (if at all) for a pirated copy of Windows, you don't have the right to complain about what's bundled with it.

  11. err...china communist? what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You do realise right that china ceased being communistic ages ago and they are now an oligopoly run by a few rich/powerful old men, and the odd woman. In a semi free market economy under the influence of heavy government regulaton and price fixing/controls.

  12. Big LOL by hrieke · · Score: 1

    Because we all know that the Communist party knows all about creating Monopolies.
    The real question is what do they really want?

    --
    III.IIVIVIXIIVIVIIIVVIIIIXVIIIXIIIIIIIIVIIIIVVIIIV IIVIIIIIIVIII...
  13. Not quite Soviet Russia, but... by CompMD · · Score: 1

    In Communist China, Microsoft probes YOU!

    1. Re:Not quite Soviet Russia, but... by oahazmatt · · Score: 1

      In Communist China, Microsoft probes YOU! Yeah, but they stole the idea from Apple's iProbe. Everyone knows that.
      --
      Those who believe the Internet is private,
      find their privates are on the Internet.
    2. Re:Not quite Soviet Russia, but... by Alphax.au · · Score: 1

      In Communist China, Microsoft probes YOU! I thought they did that everywhere.
    3. Re:Not quite Soviet Russia, but... by GregNorc · · Score: 1

      You and I are both like guys who had this rich neighbor - Xerox - who left the door open all the time. And you go sneakin' in to steal a TV set. Only when you get there, you realize that I got there first. I got the loot, Steve! And you're yellin'? "That's not fair. I wanted to try to steal it first." You're too late.

    4. Re:Not quite Soviet Russia, but... by Stormwatch · · Score: 1

      Except Xerox actually sold Apple the aforementioned TV set.

    5. Re:Not quite Soviet Russia, but... by Fmuctohekerr · · Score: 1

      Source? I know of no deal that was reached between Apple/Xerox before the Apple "look and feel" lawsuit. Just curious.

    6. Re:Not quite Soviet Russia, but... by Fmuctohekerr · · Score: 1
      I just double-checked. More like this:

      Apple and MS both have rich neighbor. Apple steals a TV. MS watches Apple's TV and wants one. MS steals another TV from same neighbor. Meanwhile, neighbor is trying to get people to come over and watch his other, other TV, but nobody will. Apple acts like a weenie and calls the cops on MS. Rich neighbor calls the cops on Apple. Cops let everybody go. MS buys a little piece of Apple's TV.

      Then Steve is fired for being a giagantic prick.

      Vista.

      Am I missing anything?

      :)

    7. Re:Not quite Soviet Russia, but... by Stormwatch · · Score: 1

      AFAIK, Apple paid Xerox in stock for access to PARC.

  14. In Other News... by TheBoll · · Score: 2, Interesting

    ... car makers bundling radios, gps, air bags and brakes within vehicles. More at 11.

    1. Re:In Other News... by aralin · · Score: 1

      If your post read: "The maker of all cars bundling radios, GPS, Air bags and brakes within vehicles." you might have had something. But it has been some time since Ford enjoyed his monopoly position.

      --
      If programs would be read like poetry, most programmers would be Vogons.
  15. Wait? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Isn't Microsoft selling a slim version of XP on the chinese market to thwart piracy for like 5 bucks a copy?!

  16. China, more or less evil than M$? by wattrlz · · Score: 0, Troll

    Commie software pirates vs. Monopolistic MegaCorp. Who will the people side with? Who will win?

    1. Re:China, more or less evil than M$? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Let's see, monopolistic software company vs. a country that's probably the #1 or #2 human rights' violators in the history of the world, then throw on all the pirated software, hackers, shittily manufactured products, and any other crap going on I didn't mention. China bad.

  17. To Quote Nelson Munce by scubamage · · Score: 1

    HA HA!

    1. Re:To Quote Nelson Munce by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Close...It's Nelson Muntz.
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nelson_Muntz

  18. Once again... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Once again, China is just copying other countries. I bet their probe will be half the cost, too.

  19. Step 3 of 5 to economic collapse. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Just another step in China's eventual bludgeoning of the American economy. First you openned the door to trade with them. Now they outproduce you, and now they seek to sue your comapnies for wrong dealings while undercutting your prices and pirating the hell out of your goods. A lot of good people saw this coming, and now we just sit back and watch the sad dance play out to its bitter end.
    US trades with China.
    China outproduces USA on material items.
    USA moves to Intellectual Property.
    China ignores IP laws except where it suits them to make money.
    US economy collapses
    China is new global superpower.

    1. Re:Step 3 of 5 to economic collapse. by JCSoRocks · · Score: 2, Insightful

      True that. We survived WWII and came out on top because of our ridiculous manufacturing power and natural resources. For years we were helping the world rebuild. Then we decided we were too good for that crap and started outsourcing... Well - what'd we expect? China beat us at our own game. There are 4 times as many Chinese people, the government controls *everything*, and they don't give a crap about trashing the environment in the process of becoming a superpower. How do you compete with that? Oh, I know! IP (imaginary property)... that'll work - or not.

      --
      You are using English. Please learn the difference between loose and lose; they're, there, and their; your and you're.
    2. Re:Step 3 of 5 to economic collapse. by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 5, Insightful
      My, the ignorance is breathtaking. Wishful thinking, at best.

      China is *hugely* inefficient, which is mostly masked by their huge growth. One thing that you have to remember is that the Chinese economy has *never* gone down in living memory. It's all up, up, up since Mao died and the national nightmare ended. This results in things like people opening businesses with no idea what they're doing, and the business succeeds anyway due to runaway demand. I see small shops open and close all the time, and it's the same story - no plan, no strategy, no marketing. It's just 'I'll open the doors and people will flood in.' The Chinese are geniunely shocked when they don't, and can't figure out what they did wrong. Really. Massive inefficiency is a hallmark of a prolonged boom (more annoying facts again - don't worry, I won't include any math) and China has been a boom (14%+ growth) for 30 years.

      The Chinese don't invent new things, which is going to really start hurting in a few years when all their low-cost manufacturing isn't low-cost any more. I see it every day, a lot of people really don't know how to solve problems except for copying someone else, even to the point of investing huge efforts into it. Just think of how much better off China would be if they had developed their own indigenous computer systems instead of just pirating Windows. And no, I have yet to see a single installation of this "Red Flag" linux that someone always spouts off about. China does in fact have IPR laws, and they do work, but you have to actually follow them. Speaking of laws, there is a new anti-monopoly law in effect this year, and it's going to be used by the government as a club to bash foreign enterprises. Of course, Chinese monopolies are safe. Remember, cheating foreigners is patriotic.

      Anyway, that's just my personal experience. Feel free to keep wishing hard for America to fall and China to rise. For further reading, for those of you who made it this far, check here (true today as when it was written) and Danwei and China Law Blog. Sorry to inject facts into the fantasy exercise - I realize it's a downer.

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    3. Re:Step 3 of 5 to economic collapse. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      US trades with China.
      China outproduces USA on material items.
      USA moves to Intellectual Property.
      China ignores IP laws except where it suits them to make money.
      US economy collapses
      China is new global superpower. There's a good reason why stringing together a story hasn't been an acceptable way to do economics for the last 80 years.
    4. Re:Step 3 of 5 to economic collapse. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Seriously, I look at RedFlag linux screenshots once a while just to see how good my country's customized linux has become. All I see is just a customized look that looks like Windows XP. Here are some screenshots they took for their newest RedFlag desktop 6: http://www.redflag-linux.com/chanpin/dt6/.

      They try to promote it on desktop computers. But see, IM is a basic part of desktop these days. And the most widely used IM in China (QQ) doesn't have an official client on Linux, nor are they that friendly to the communities that continuously try to reverse engineer their always changing protocol (to avoid alien clients). I mean, if they really want people to use Linux, make deal with Tencent and implement a client (or plugin to Pidgin etc.) on Linux. It won't solve all the problems, but it's definitely the first thing to do.

    5. Re:Step 3 of 5 to economic collapse. by Eric+Pierce · · Score: 1

      Interesting comment.

      > And no, I have yet to see a single installation of this "Red Flag" linux that someone always spouts off about.

      I was in China in 2002 and stopped in a big name electronics store in Beijing. I (being an unabashed Linux/OSS fan boy) went around to about ~20 desktop computers they had for sale and noticed that approx. half were running Linux of which 80% were Red Flag Linux; the rest were Red Hat IIRC.

      EP

    6. Re:Step 3 of 5 to economic collapse. by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 3, Informative
      See? Copying. No innovation, no new ideas, no paradigm-shattering venture. Just a clone of XP, just as accurate as they can get it. And that you called it "my country's linux" is very very revealing. Do Americans call Redhat "their country's linux"? Germans call SuSE theirs? (Novell whatever) Rabid nationalism is going to play a huge part in the future, too. Foreigners are to blame for all of China's problems.

      QQ sucks raging donkey balls. I'm not surprised they constantly monkey with the protocol. When all you do is rip off others, you get really good at it, and you know how to avoid getting ripped off yourself. I would call this blatant hypocrisy, but then hypocrisy is a Western concept that has no equivalent in China. It's always been "the leader commands this" and instead of wanting to make everyone equal, Chinese just want to become the leader so that they can be hypocrites, too. Fundamental cultural difference.

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    7. Re:Step 3 of 5 to economic collapse. by tryfan · · Score: 1

      Feel free to keep wishing hard for America to fall and China to rise.

      Thank god! I was worried for a minute.
    8. Re:Step 3 of 5 to economic collapse. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My, the ignorance is breathtaking. Wishful thinking, at best. You seemed like the type of person who knows just a little to say something about china and say it wrong

    9. Re:Step 3 of 5 to economic collapse. by Vitriol+Angst · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I have to wonder when China sues Boeing for trade secrets. Lot's of short-sighted profiteering. Boeing will have to buy parts soon from China and compete with aerospace technology that they helped develop.

      I'm not a Microsoft fan -- but shouldn't China at least pretend to pay for all the copies they stole BEFORE they complain that Microsoft is a monopoly?

      It's like someone who stole my car calling me up and complaining that I didn't pay the tag license on it so they'd like some money for they penalty they had to pay at Motor Vehicles.

      --
      >>"ad space available -- low rates!!!"
    10. Re:Step 3 of 5 to economic collapse. by Vitriol+Angst · · Score: 1

      Yes, I agree that China will probably fall soon and start the Global sell-off.
      It's like Japan in the 1980's when everyone in the US thought we were going to get buried.

      YES, there growth will stall as all their manufacturing isn't cheap when labor isn't super-cheap. The inefficiency will multiply the costs and they will be left with lots of infrastructure without a growing business boom to support it or justify maintenance. They will still have the smog, though.

      But that doesn't mean that we won't still be dealing with a copyright and technology beast that we created. China will go down pretty fast and hard but so will we. The winners in both nations will have their money in offshore accounts -- so what are WE getting so happy about?

      China will fall but America will not rise. Both countries have corrupt leaders -- which is a bigger issue than relative strengths of military or business.

      --
      >>"ad space available -- low rates!!!"
    11. Re:Step 3 of 5 to economic collapse. by jaydub2001 · · Score: 1

      You're absolutely right there are major inefficiencies in China's economy. I live in Beijing and as the original poster said business come and go with alarming frequency usually due to not having any idea at all what kind of business is likely to succeed in a given place. The other very common mistake is to cluster businesses in one area. While it might be nice for the consumer to have the choice between 5 cafes in one apartment complex / street block, it makes no sense for the business owners to have to face 4 direct competitors rather than zero.

      Once China's 'catch-up' growth starts to slow -and it most certainly will at some point- then you will see a lot of people start to realize just how much the typical business owner has to learn about business...

    12. Re:Step 3 of 5 to economic collapse. by Austerity+Empowers · · Score: 1

      Except for the part where they move too fast and we realize that IP is a stupid "resource" to sit on. They really need to wait a generation, let all the people with "know how" retire/get laid off and die. THEN spring the trap.

      Right now we'd be inconvenienced. Things would appear worse than they were while we recovered. In 20 years, very few people would be left who would know what to do. Sure, we're smart, we could figure it out and re-invent ourselves, but it'd take decades.

    13. Re:Step 3 of 5 to economic collapse. by zsau · · Score: 1

      And that you called it "my country's linux" is very very revealing.

      You should see the way Samba gets covered down here in Australia... But then again, most of our profitable exports are sold to or owned by Chinese government owned companies, so maybe we've got more in common than just that.

      --
      Look out!
    14. Re:Step 3 of 5 to economic collapse. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Funny how your "personal experience" just happens to map exactly to Western racist stereotypes of East Asians. All of this was said about Japan. Japan doesn't know how to innovate; Japan just copies; Japanese consider cheating foreigners patriotic. Right up until Japan out-competed and out-innovated the US in automobiles, consumer electronics and many other industries. The same tired stereotypes were trotted out again for South Korea and proved not to be true.

      The truth is that ALL developing economies start by taking manufacturing jobs and only later transition to innovation. It's standard economics. When they happen to be Asian, Westerners put it down to inherent Asian character flaws. Nevermind that every developing economy has to go through this period. Do you expect them to develop the necessary expertise to innovate BEFORE economic growth? Just go from agrarian society to developing new microprocessors with nothing inbetween?

      Sure, the transition from manufacturing to innovation can be hard, but China so far is getting it right. They're churning out PhDs en masse and they value education highly (although their education spending is low for East Asia).

    15. Re:Step 3 of 5 to economic collapse. by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 1
      Nobody will ever read this, but it's nice to hear the racism bomb being thrown as a first resort. The entire Japanese postwar economy was a giant pyramid scheme, something called "credit ordering". You'll remember that the whole house of cards collapsed in 1989, and the Japanese economy was in a zombie state for the next 15 years.

      It's bullshit that all developing economies need to steal. No reason for that at all. And for Chinese Ph.D's? Have you ever been to a university? Cheating is rampant and even expected. A friend of mine got fired because students were blatantly cheating during exams, and he refused be a party to the fraud.

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
  20. The answer is ... by Kingston · · Score: 1

    A working committee of China's State Intellectual Property Office is investigating whether Microsoft engaged in discriminatory pricing I suspect they already know the answer to this before they asked the question. This is a prelude to across the board demands for cuts in software prices. The investigation is to provide a little legitamacy to the strong arming to come.
  21. "China's State Intellectual Property Office" by damburger · · Score: 3, Funny

    That just gave me the best chuckle I've had all day

    --
    If we can put a man on the moon, why can't we shoot people for Apollo-related non-sequiturs?
    1. Re:"China's State Intellectual Property Office" by value_added · · Score: 1

      That just gave me the best chuckle I've had all day

      Even funnier is that the "office" isn't a real office.

      It's just a single desk tucked away in an unused basement area where a fat guy sits keeping a watchful eye over a red stapler.

  22. Reminds me of a saying... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Organized crime doesn't exist in China, the government doesn't like the competition"

  23. Princess Bride by Ukab+the+Great · · Score: 5, Funny

    China To Microsoft: "You're trying to have a monopoly on what we've rightfully stolen"

  24. its 2008 by unity100 · · Score: 0, Troll

    let go of the shitty 1950s mccarthian scare about communism already ffs.

  25. How about a very different possibility? by Enlarged+to+Show+Tex · · Score: 3, Funny

    Perhaps this is a prelude to the Chinese government looking to do something better with American dollars than have them sitting in US government debt. If the Party were looking to buy out Microsoft, they could really have the rest of the world bent over a barrel, enjoying a tremendous amount of control over anyone that uses MS software.

    Not only that, it finally gives the BSA the power it's looking for - let's hear it for the Chinese military fighting the BSA's battles to defend Microsoft's owners and their IP...

    1. Re:How about a very different possibility? by Toll_Free · · Score: 1

      China can't buy MS.

      There are laws dealing with foreign gub-mints / investors and gub-mint contractors (which ms is).

      To put it in perspective, when I was in high school, I did a 2 day job at our local electronics "junk shop". It was tagging devices to go into a "connex" box (shipping container) to go to China. This was in the late 80s or early 90s.

      Anything HP, Tektronix or Fluke wasn't allowed to go. Some things had to have certain boards pulled out, and some things where just not allowed to go. This went all the way back to WWII technology (the store was a military surplus store).

      The Chinese didn't care. They came for the steel and aluminum chassis the electronics came in.

      Such a bummer. Even though some of it was "hollow state" tube stuff, it was still good equipment... We threw it haphazardly into two connex boxes, two semis came and took them, and that was the end of it.

      BUT, it was censored.. ALL of it, due to export restrictions and trade laws. Same reason MS won't be owned by an entity from a gub-mint we find "hostile".

      --Toll_Free

      --Toll_Free

  26. oxymoron by pak9rabid · · Score: 3, Insightful

    China's State Intellectual Property Office Now there's an oxymoron if I've seen one
  27. They just follow the EU by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

    I guess China noticed how the EU keeps extorting Microsoft for a few billion a year, and figured they want some of that.

    After all, the EU has set up an entire class of laws which apply to Microsoft, and nobody else. Like how Microsoft can't bundle a media player with their OS... and yet every other OS company is ok with having a bundled media player. Same thing with the browser: Opera can't compete in the market, so they are trying to legislate their way into sales using that same precedent. So it's ok for Apple and Linux to include a web browser... but the EU is going to say it's not ok for Windows to have a browser.

    When you are looking to extort money from somebody, you don't need a reason, you need a pretext. And that's all they can ever come up with when they try to legislate their way into Microsoft's pocket.

    The FOSSies may love trying to legislate their way into market share (even though it's not actually working- Linux's market share has been stagnant for over a decade)... but it's damaging the computer industry as a whole.

    Who do you want deciding what applications and products we are allowed to use: the marketplace and yourself, or the government and lawmakers? The FOSSies are trying to make it the latter, since they can't win. It's more important for them to win, than for all of us to have choice- they are supposedly all about choice... unless people dare choose commercial software.

    1. Re:They just follow the EU by lluBdeR · · Score: 1

      I guess China noticed how the EU keeps extorting Microsoft for a few billion a year, and figured they want some of that. I don't blame them, look at the price of fuel. Not too much longer and it'll make financial sense for us to make our own shoddy goods.

    2. Re:They just follow the EU by wamerocity · · Score: 1, Interesting

      That sounds vaguely familiar of the "Anti-Dog-Eat-Dog" law and the "Equalization of Opportunity Act" in Atlas Shrugged. You can't do something that will hurt the little guy! Of course the little guy can do that thing that hurts the big guy. After all, they never even got a chance! It isn't fair!

      --
      "Thank you for using Stop-n-Drop, America's favorite suicide booth since 2008"
    3. Re:They just follow the EU by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bill Gates, is that you?

    4. Re:They just follow the EU by cyber-vandal · · Score: 1

      There are a whole class of laws that apply to companies that abuse their dominant market position yes. That includes, but is not limited to Microsoft, they are just the most blatant, arrogant and least interested in obeying said laws.

  28. They don't need it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    In other words, China is jumping on the bandwagon of countries that is playing the "Sue Microsoft Lottery" to get some extra cash.

    China has over a Trillion dollars just sitting around, that's right, with a 'T'. They need MS' money as much as they need to increase birth rates.

  29. The Upgrade Treadmill by huckamania · · Score: 1

    Why would you want to stop upgrading your software? Usually newer versions of software are better then previous versions of software. Maybe you meant to say stop paying for upgrades?

    My box is in perpetual upgrade. The xorg-x11-Xnest package can't install right and so I always have 1 available update in my tray.

  30. Take a guess by dedazo · · Score: 1
    People usually side with the entity that does not throw them in jail, execute them and bill their family for the bullet.

    Sorry, but where do you people come from and is it really necessary to be this stupid?

    --
    Web2.0: I love when people Flickr my cuil and digg my boingboing until my google is reddit and I start to yahoo
    1. Re:Take a guess by JCSoRocks · · Score: 3, Funny

      I heard about the chair throwing, but shooting people? Balmer has gone too far!

      --
      You are using English. Please learn the difference between loose and lose; they're, there, and their; your and you're.
    2. Re:Take a guess by VJ42 · · Score: 1

      OTOH It could be argued that it's better to side with the entity that has the capability throw you in jail and execute you rather than get on the wrong side of it...

      --
      If I have nothing to hide, you have no reason to search me
    3. Re:Take a guess by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If your the United States Government you usually side with the entity that has the larger bank account, unless the entity happens to be either AIPAC or Israel.

      I predict that Microsoft will be sacrificed on the "altar of globalization" next to the golden calf, which is AKA the "Wall Street Bull".

    4. Re:Take a guess by dedazo · · Score: 1

      Even stretching the dumb analogy, no.

      --
      Web2.0: I love when people Flickr my cuil and digg my boingboing until my google is reddit and I start to yahoo
    5. Re:Take a guess by dedazo · · Score: 1

      WGA is usually punishment enough. No chairs needed.

      --
      Web2.0: I love when people Flickr my cuil and digg my boingboing until my google is reddit and I start to yahoo
  31. For the Manufacturers? by introspekt.i · · Score: 1

    Perhaps this really isn't about the end user in China at all, rather it's about computer Chinese computer manufacturers that are being forced to sell their systems bundled with Windows and being gouged at it. China does seem to make just about anything (and everything). I'd think that since end users in China just seem to pirate the 'doze already, the real losers in China are legitimate computer manufacturers who 'lose' tons of money buying licenses to bundle with their machines. It's government looking out industry. A classic maneuver in most any country.

  32. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  33. Anything... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Anything against Microsoft = I agree :) Let's go China!

  34. MONO-poly by Mathinker · · Score: 1

    > which apply to Microsoft, and nobody else

    You do know what the meaning of "mono" in monopoly is, right?

    What a laughable troll.

    I wait for the day that the EU go after "Linux" for abusing a monopoly position. LOL

    1. Re:MONO-poly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You do know what the meaning of "mono" in monopoly is, right?


      Sure. You guys keep saying Teh Lunix is Teh Bestest OS EVAR... so obviously you aren't using Windows. Apple... we know Apple isn't using Windows. Then there are the UNIX holdouts (yes, I realize OSX is UNIX), the BeOS holdouts, etc.

      Does that sound like a MONO-poly to you? Sounds like a whole shitload of choice in the marketplace to me.

      You know what a REAL monopoly looks like? Check the phone industry. If you want a land line... there's generally one, but maybe two at the most, companies which can provide that service. How about broadband internet? Most places have a choice of either the local cable television monopoly (cable broadband), or else the local phone monopoly (for DSL broadband).

      MONO means one. There is far more than one operating system, as even a delusional Lunix d00d can tell you.

      "Monopoly". What a laughable troll!
    2. Re:MONO-poly by Mathinker · · Score: 1
      From Wikipedia:

      In Economics, monopoly (also "Pure oligopoly") exists when a specific individual or enterprise has sufficient control over a particular product or service to determine significantly the terms on which other individuals shall have access to it. Monopolies are thus characterized by a lack of economic competition for the good or service that they provide and a lack of viable substitute goods.
      1) Until ReactOS gets up to speed, Microsoft obviously has a complete monopoly in Win32 ABI compatible OS's.
      2) Do to network effects, Microsoft's overwhelming marketshare gives it the kind of control mentioned in Wikipedia which would in turn characterize it as a monopoly.
    3. Re:MONO-poly by TapeCutter · · Score: 1

      "Microsoft obviously has a complete monopoly in Win32 ABI compatible OS's"

      ABI - Application Bluescreen Interface?

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
  35. Misleading comparison by DigitalCrackPipe · · Score: 3, Informative

    cost much more in China than in the U.S. What? Prices are much lower in China, since few there can afford the prices charged in the US (consider the cheap version of XP designed for poorer markets). What they mean is that the prices are higher relative to the mean income, which is a completely different statement.
    1. Re:Misleading comparison by Ezza · · Score: 1

      There is nothing in TFA about relative or mean incomes.

      From The Register article:

      "One copy of the Windows operating system bundled with Microsoft Office software can cost up to 7,000 yuan ($1,015) in China, the source said, making it more expensive than a PC."

      Seems pretty non-relative to me.

      --
      I'm a perfectionist but I'm trying to cut back.
  36. HA! HA Ha HA ha ha! by LoudMusic · · Score: 1

    China? HA HA! Microsoft? BUHAH HA HAAA! China and Microsoft. This is seriously funny.

    On a slightly more serious note, I think the people attacking Microsoft's "monopoly" position are out of line. Not only are there alternatives, like OS X, but there are FREE alternatives that clearly produce similar results, like the many flavors of Linux including Ubuntu. Furthermore, Microsoft products don't force you to use more Microsoft products, it's just generally more efficient if you do. But that's the case with any market, even kitchen appliances, car parts, and oral hygiene to name a few.

    If everyone would just leave Microsoft alone they'll likely destroy themselves - look at Vista.

    --
    No sig for you. YOU GET NO SIG!
  37. Mod me as Troll if you will by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    But just like with the EU, this is will be nothing more than an attempt to extort money from successful American corporations. I know /. hates MS, but any sincere customer centric resolution to anti-trust *outside* of the corpration's home country would be done diplomatically with that countries government.

    1. Re:Mod me as Troll if you will by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd mod you as troll then - the EU actually put sanctions on MS to play fair, as in providing API documentation and opening reasonable licensing and documents to allow competition. Doesn't sound like a total money grab to me.

    2. Re:Mod me as Troll if you will by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF · · Score: 1

      I know /. hates MS, but any sincere customer centric resolution to anti-trust *outside* of the corpration's home country would be done diplomatically with that countries[sic] government.

      The corporation's home country sold out and did jack and shit after MS was convicted because MS made huge donations to campaign funds and the prosecutors were replaced by those politicians right after the election. When american companies file suit against other american companies in the EU it is significant vote of "no confidence" in the US court system... and they're right. The US courts took many many years to do nothing about obvious criminal actions on MS's part. The EU has been super-lenient, and has been very diplomatic, but they, at least, have made MS stop a few of their most obvious abuses. But, MS is still breaking the law every day. They know they're going to be convicted and fined. It is part of their business plan to break the law and hope the fines are less than the profits. Personally, I hope someone fines them enough and requires enough reparations that it does become unprofitable. That's the only way MS will ever stop.

  38. Just more efficient ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So let's see the Chinese skipped the democracy part and went straight to fascism unlike here in the United States were we tried a semi-functional democracy for little while before making the switch.

    See once again China is able to get to market faster by streamlining their manufacturing process, even in the political arena.

    1. Re:Just more efficient ... by Mustakrakish · · Score: 1

      The switch to fascism in the United States happened with the election of Woodrow Wilson, and again with the election of the guy who married his cousin - FDR.

  39. This made me happy. by Aphoxema · · Score: 1

    Does this mean a government that actually has the balls to do something about Microsoft without discussing how much it can hurt their business or allowing lobbyists and interests groups to undermine the legal system is finally going after them?

    The best part about this is we won't have to wait 3 years to see where this goes.

    --
    "Most people, I think, don't even know what a rootkit is, so why should they care about it?"
  40. hg by dadatianpu · · Score: 1

    hg

  41. You know your doing somethin wrong when... by Q-Hack! · · Score: 1, Insightful

    The axis of evil calls your business model evil.

    --
    Some days I get the sinking feeling Orwell was an optimist.
  42. laughable by v3xt0r · · Score: 1

    "A 'working' committee of China's State Intellectual Property Office"

    When did China get a 'State Intellectual Property Office'? and at what point was it decided that it was 'working'? and, just what has China contributed to Intellectual Property, anyhow, aside from espionage or piracy?

    --
    the only permanence in existence, is the impermanence of existence.
  43. Also... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Editors write confusing title Vs. Readers

  44. Antitrut probe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Antitrust probe?
    What a Joke!
        On which of the millions of pirated copies of Microsoft OS ?
    You can Buy XP pro in many languages without need for activation in Shanghai for $1.00 or less if you haggle and you know where to find it,.

    Antitrust what?
    on which of few legit copies is that ?
    IMHO: I'm no friend of Microsoft, but for the commies to say antitrust over their rampant piracy is plain Bullshit, Commie Bullshit!!

  45. Re:HA! HA Ha HA ha ha! by blahplusplus · · Score: 1

    "On a slightly more serious note, I think the people attacking Microsoft's "monopoly" position are out of line. Not only are there alternatives, like OS X, but there are FREE alternatives that clearly produce similar results, like the many flavors of Linux including Ubuntu. "

    It's way way more complicated then that for a lot of people, for instance games on windows will have a severe lag time before they are supported under linux, if at all. In many instances OTHER companies products determine what you choose. It's the same for game consoles: Many people buy consoles not because of SONY but because of other 3rd party companies (specifically, square and Konami with metal gear solid 4).

    Also there is also the issue of do most people give a shit? People care about operating systems like they care about what kind of butter knife they use. All they care about is what they use it for, you're dealing with herd like animals.

    In the real world there is inertia and habit, that takes precedence over the idea of the informed rational agent of markets, that is, market fundamentalism. Most people are nothing like what many economists espouse, asserting that there is 'choice' doesn't matter when most product in question is seen as a tool like a screwdriver, rather then something like say a car, where people care about what kind of car they drive, etc. The level of interest and personal investment is completely different, and is very important.

  46. The Doobie Brothers made a song about this by CompMD · · Score: 1

    "Whooooaaaaaaa.....China Probe."

  47. Any Doubts by kellyb9 · · Score: 1

    Any doubts China is going to win this lawsuit...

  48. Re:HA! HA Ha HA ha ha! by hany · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Microsoft products don't force you to use more Microsoft products, it's just generally more efficient if you do.

    Well, I tend to disagree.

    Imagine you are responsible for the whole IT infrastructure of some company. The size of the company does not matter. Imagine you choose to deploy say Microsoft Office 2003 or (if you are more oriented or pushed towards smaller costs and/or increased "freedom") even OpenOffice.org .

    Now try to imagine a reaction of a CEO of given company after:

    1. some potential client of the company sends you a document created in Microsoft Office 2007
    2. your coworkers (sales, engineering, ...) failed to open the document or failed to open it properly thus creating some problem
    3. thanks to that problem client takes the business elsewhere and your company looses revenue
    4. you tell to CEO: "we did not lost income, we are just slighly less efficient"

    To add more spice, imagine that client was a big one and potential income (and thus real loses) are quite big.

    :)

    All that thanks to inability or whatever of Microsoft to use and follow open standards or at least some decent backward compatibility and our quite small ability to push them toward that (thanks in quite big proportion to what some people call "dominant position in the OS market for PC" or, more importantly "dominant position in the office document format market for document exchange" which stems from the firts one), which would ussualy make the above example non issue.

    --
    hany
  49. This is pathetic by spike9011 · · Score: 1

    The world's leader in Microsoft software piracy launching an anti-trust probe against a company they've been violating for years...

    1. Re:This is pathetic by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF · · Score: 1

      The world's leader in Microsoft software piracy launching an anti-trust probe against a company they've been violating for years...

      So? China is lax about enforcing IP laws, for everyone. What does that have to do with anti-trust abuses? Should MS also be free to commit murders for hire in China, since China doesn't bother enforcing IP laws on MS's behalf?

  50. Costs More? by ratboy666 · · Score: 1

    No it doesn't...

    It is hard to compare directly, but let's try.

    Vista Home Premium (it has media center functionality): In China (according to Microsoft), 899 yuan ( http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/tech-news/?p=953 )

    In USA: 239.95 usd ( http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/windowsvista/editions/homepremium/default.mspx ).

    Asking google for the conversion:

    899 Chinese yuan = 130.628296 U.S. dollars

    So, a product produced in the US costs 1/2 in a foreign country. Am I allowed to now purchase Chinese product and sell in the US? To find out if this is worth it, let's get a retail (not msrp) price on Windows Vista Home Premium. Amazon lists some prices (no, we don't want the "upgrade" edition):

    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0013O54OE/ref=dp_cp_ob_title_1

    This prices at 209.99 usd (although it claims msrp is 269.99).

    All told, the Chinese version is considerably less expensive.

    --
    Just another "Cubible(sic) Joe" 2 17 3061
  51. pathetic fact about slashdotters on China by john826 · · Score: 1

    Why every thread about China will end up with talking trash about China with anti-China emotion. People, open your eyes and don't just repeat what u heard from others. --A Chinese Slashdotter

  52. Boy... by TrebleJunkie · · Score: 2, Funny

    ...if this isn't the hammer calling the sickle black.

    --

    Ed R.Zahurak

    You know, oblivion keeps looking better every day.

  53. Bigger then when Adolf Hitler hosten them you mean by SmallFurryCreature · · Score: 1

    Lets hope it is not as bad as that one shall we? Don't look forward to WW3 at all even if it is my best chance of getting laid if I manage to be the only male survivor.

    --

    MMO Quests are like orgasms:

    You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.

  54. Hypocrites by assertation · · Score: 1

    Wow, I can't believe I'm on Microsofts side.

    The PRC has looked the other way on intellectual property issues and while large number of their country freely pirate software. Now....they want an antitrust case?

    1. Re:Hypocrites by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF · · Score: 1

      The PRC has looked the other way on intellectual property issues and while large number of their country freely pirate software. Now....they want an antitrust case?

      I don't understand what that has to do with anything. Antitrust laws are not intellectual property laws. MS wants China to enforce IP laws and China says they will comply with regard to MS's offerings, but they're also enforcing unrelated antitrust laws, also with regard to MS's offerings. If we were talking about any other criminal law instead of antitrust, like one you understood, would you see a conflict?

      What about if China was enforcing theft laws against MS, because as a company they have been stealing automobiles from the streets (in multiple countries and were convicted in the US and EU of grand theft auto)? Would you see a conflict if China agreed to enforce IP laws for Windows, but also started looking into bringing charges against MS for all their auto theft?

  55. and in the US, it's the other way around... by mkcmkc · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    Their economic system is a free-market capitalism, with elements of fascism That sounds pretty fucking familiar.
    --
    "Not an actor, but he plays one on TV."
  56. Duck by Nick+Driver · · Score: 1

    I wish people would stop calling China "communist," since it is not.

    Hmm, let's see.... There is only one political party running China's government, and that would be their Communist Party. Plus they do not allow any of their other eight or so "political parties" to have any power and those 8 are only permitted to have any function whatsoever under the authority of the Communist Party.

    Looks like a duck,
    Walks like a duck.
    Quacks like a duck.

    1. Re:Duck by Darkness404 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Plus they do not allow any of their other eight or so "political parties" to have any power and those 8 are only permitted to have any function whatsoever under the authority of the Communist Party.

      Wouldn't that mean that they aren't communist and are a dictatorship ? Because in a communist government, there are no classes. So lets see we have A) Classes, B) Unequal distribution of wealth C) some people are really poor, others are filthy rich, and D) one party/person has total control. Seems like a dictatorship to me. And communism != dictatorship. They may be called "communists" but only in the way that the USA is called "free", in name alone.
      --
      Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
    2. Re:Duck by HuguesT · · Score: 1

      According to Marxist doctrine, communism starts with a dictature of the proletariat (the workers). Then it gradually moves onto paradise once everybody is educated.

      Unfortunately the very first step is never correctly executed, never leading onto the paradise bit. The dictature they do have though.

    3. Re:Duck by TummyX · · Score: 1

      The "no classes" heaven on earth part comes later. Dictatorship of the proles comes first.

    4. Re:Duck by TapeCutter · · Score: 1

      Yes it looks and quacks like a duck, but it walks like Montgomery Burns.

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
    5. Re:Duck by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh, if only the Communist Party of China changed its name to "Democratic Human Rights Party of China"! It would be the greatest democracy in the world, and the most democratic one too, since no other parties would be even allowed to have any real power!

    6. Re:Duck by piemcfly · · Score: 1

      no, that is leninism, not communism.

    7. Re:Duck by TheLink · · Score: 1

      You get dictatorships due to the design flaw in Marx Communism where Marx encourages violence in implementation plans, for example:

      "The Communists disdain to conceal their views and aims. They openly declare that their ends can be attained only by the forcible overthrow of all existing social conditions. Let the ruling classes tremble at a Communistic revolution. The proletarians have nothing to lose but their chains. They have a world to win." - The Communist Manifesto (from translation at Project Gutenberg)

      When you do things that way, it makes it more likely that the people who are willing and able to exert the most violence would get to the top.

      A Communist Revolution is an opportunity for dictators to seize and hijack, to set up their dictatorships. Most of those fervent communists out there would be easy pawns for upcoming dictators - they cling to Marx and become tools of the Dictator.

      After such people get to the top, only a exceedingly rare few would willingly give up their power. So what you end up is a Dictatorship till the people at top die of old age or pass their power to people not as bloodthirsty or ruthless (which is actually what you see happening in China - this current generation of leaders are not as ruthless as the previous and so on- compare them with their predecessors and Mao).

      Citation - see the various "communist" countries around the world and history.

      --
  57. apologies in advance. by moxley · · Score: 1

    But don't they leally rike pilacy over there? Isn't pilacy rike their poricy (de facto officirry)?

  58. Re:HA! HA Ha HA ha ha! by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF · · Score: 1

    On a slightly more serious note, I think the people attacking Microsoft's "monopoly" position are out of line.

    I see. So you think the US and EU antitrust experts don't understand what constitutes a monopoly, but that you do. Do enlighten us.

    Not only are there alternatives, like OS X, but there are FREE alternatives that clearly produce similar results, like the many flavors of Linux including Ubuntu.

    So the top two "competitors" are an OS only sold bundled with hardware so it does not have to compete in the desktop OS market and an OS created by a non-profit cooperative in order to make a profit in other markets. And this is your evidence that the desktop OS market is not broken? Brilliant!

    Furthermore, Microsoft products don't force you to use more Microsoft products, it's just generally more efficient if you do.

    MS's monopoly and what they do with it makes it less expensive for you to use other products of theirs instead of those of competitors. This is called leveraging a monopoly in one market to gain an advantage in another. That's also illegal antitrust abuse. It doesn't have to make it impossible to use something else, just provide incentive competitors can't provide without a monopoly of their own. It kind of undermines the whole benefit of capitalism in the first place because the best product doesn't win the most money.

    But that's the case with any market, even kitchen appliances, car parts, and oral hygiene to name a few.

    And which of the above markets are you claiming is monopolized?

    If everyone would just leave Microsoft alone they'll likely destroy themselves - look at Vista.

    Everyone pretty much has left MS alone. The US claimed they would do something, convicted them, then certain politicians got elected using MS's donations and no punishment was brought to bear. As a result the desktop OS market has stagnated for a decade. Other markets, like Web technology have been stagnant nearly as long and MS keeps taking over more and more markets. Exactly how long should we wait? Do you want them to take over the server OS market before we act? When do you think would be an appropriate time for the laws to be enforced and for us to start have a regular rate of progress again? How many decades should we let MS retard the progress in the computing industry while making obscene profits before we say, "enough" ?!?

  59. Pigs are flying by Orig_Club_Soda · · Score: 1

    How can the Chinese sue over software their whole country pirates!?

  60. A Real and Big Change! by Tungbo · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "The PRC was never very socialist anyway, most European democracies went much farther down that path"

    Really?

    Did they organize all farmers into Colletives? Did their government take over virtually all manufacturing enterprises (i.e. state own enterprise) ? Did their Communist Party install representatives in all enterprises to enforce doctrinal purity?

    There has been tremendous change in people's thinking and the organization of productive activies within the last 10 years - since Teng Xiao Peng redirected China toward a more pragmatic path.

    Listen to people who've visited China and don't rely on academic abstractions. US people have a bipolar attitude toward China. When they spout cliches toward one another, nothing is learnt and they will not gain a realistic picture of China as potential partner or competitor.

    1. Re:A Real and Big Change! by Hal_Porter · · Score: 1

      Did they organize all farmers into Colletives? Did their government take over virtually all manufacturing enterprises (i.e. state own enterprise) ? No, but collectives were't socialism. Look at how many rights workers had in the UK in the 1970s or in France or Germany now, and compare it to the starve-at-gunpoint conditions workers experienced in a Stalin or Mao era collective farm. The fact that collectives were state owned doesn't make them socialism. They're more like feudalism or even Roman agricultural slavery with a socialist label slapped on top to fool naive foreigners.

      --
      echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
    2. Re:A Real and Big Change! by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Don't forget that a lot of the Americans here seem to think that all of Europe is at least Socialist if not actually Communist.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
  61. Re:HA! HA Ha HA ha ha! by znerk · · Score: 1

    Microsoft products don't force you to use more Microsoft products I'll guess you're not using Exchange (show me a F/OS piece of software that fully utilizes exchange without requiring OWA, and I'll give you a cookie), or surfing Microsoft's website looking for docs on their .NET framework ("Install Silverlight!" every third click, not to mention a signal-to-noise ratio of at least 4 to 1 in the docs themselves).

    I'll guess you're also not running any of their server products (Active Directory, anyone?), or their web development environment (Apache doesn't do ASP, ya know).

    If everyone would just leave Microsoft alone they'll likely destroy themselves - look at Vista. Well, that sounds all well and good, but Vista seems to have cleaned its act up quite a bit. The truth is, Vista is shaping up to be a decent OS, if you can ignore the graceless and ignorant "because they can" UI changes. I'm not saying it's the best out there, and I'd still rather use Ubuntu, but I'm getting a bit anti-Microsoft in my old age.

    What it comes down to is this: Microsoft has the dominating market share, so they really can't lose. In addition, if Microsoft goes under (not likely, but walk down this path with me, if you would), so do all of their operating systems, office products, etc. That anti-piracy activation feature is also a dead-man switch. Don't believe me? Perform your yearly re-installs without any internet, and see how long you can use your system before it requires you to activate it before you can even log in (hint: 30 days).

    I'm all for bashing Microsoft, but a little research goes a long way towards increasing one's credibility. Better luck with your FUD next time.
    --
    This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 3.0 Unported License.
  62. Seems like they are looking in the wrong place... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The Chinese government should launch an investigation into why their political system is run as a monopoly.

  63. Original Definition of Fascism by geoffrobinson · · Score: 2, Insightful

    National Socialism

    as opposed to universal socialism known as communism.

    So when the government controls business, i.e. "nationalizes" or "socializes" it, that is fascism. At least in the original definition.

    --
    Except for ending slavery, the Nazis, communism, & securing American independence, war has never solved anything.
    1. Re:Original Definition of Fascism by Capsaicin · · Score: 2, Interesting

      National Socialism

      ... was, in power, as socialistic as the Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea is democratic. The original principles of the NSDAP could perhaps fit your description, but after Hitler took over the party any socialist trends were suppressed (you've heard of the Night of the Long Knives?). To quote my Grandmother (my translation) "THEY, stole our revolution." 'They' being BigBusiness(TM) and the Hitler (as opposed to Roehm) faction of the NSDAP.

      So when the government controls business, i.e. "nationalizes" or "socializes" it, that is fascism. At least in the original definition.

      This did not happen either in Fascist Italy, nor in Nazi Germany. In Italy Mussolini was basically a prisoner of large Industrial and Agrarian Interests. In Germany, of course, Hitler wasn't so easily manipulated, however Big Busisness was perhaps the only institution of German society that wasn't subjected to Gleichsschaltung.

      As far as an original definition, it depends on whose original definition. The Italian Fascists originally definied themselves as a pro-war (ie. vs Germany in WWI) breakaway of the Italian Socialist Party amalgamated with left-Nationalist and Futurist elements. But they were swiftly coopted by two forces. 1) Funding from pro-war Industrialists, 2) the rapid and massive expansion of a membership base which joined the party for the sole reason of fighting the Socialsts. When Mussolini wanted to call off the war with the PSI he was even forced for a time to resign from the Party. As it became clear the Facsists were to be a puppet for business interests many of the orginal founders (including the Futurist Marinetti, the original instigator of violent attacks on Socialist party members) left. Mussolini, seduced by power, stayed on, the ulimate puppet dictator.

      Because of this "fascism" is often used by educated people to indicate a kind of government which is seen to govern in the interest of (esp. large) business, but lacking the politcal freedoms usually associated with a market based economy (ie. the "liberal-democratic state" 'Liberal' here referring to free-markets, 'democratic' to representative government). Slightly less educated people focus purely on the authoritarian nature and draw up bogus lists like "10 indicators of a fascist state" and the like. Importantly there was also the 'Totalitarianism' Cold-War propaganda meme, which tried to paint fascism as the flip side of the coin to communism.

      For myself (being more than merely 'educated' :P ) I prefer a stricter historical definition, which sees 'fascism' as an inter-bellum political phenomenon spanning a limited number of European countries and which arose as a response to the perceived threat of imminent socialist takeover. I disagree with the characterisation of China as 'fascist' on this account.

      I'm afraid your naive "original definition" of fascism, cannot be sustained by anyone with even a passing familiarity with the historical realities involved.

      --
      Better to be despised for too anxious apprehensions, than ruined by too confident a security. --Edmund Burke
  64. Not quite what he's saying by geoffrobinson · · Score: 1

    He's isn't saying that Fascism and Communism were so opposite they were similar. He is saying that ideologically they weren't too far apart in the positions they espoused.

    --
    Except for ending slavery, the Nazis, communism, & securing American independence, war has never solved anything.
    1. Re:Not quite what he's saying by Hal_Porter · · Score: 1
      Yes, exactly. Even economically they're not that far apart. In both cases there was massive economic planning. Some of the Nazis oldest supporters were industrialists so the Nazi economic policy wasn't about nationalisation, the original owners got to keep the industry. Whereas Russia was hopelessly backward when the Communists took over and they nationalized everything. But nationalization in a one party state just means that supporters of the party end up running industry, which is just like Nazi Germany.

      The biggest difference would beantisemitism. Both Hitler and Stalin were anti semitic but Hitler obviously allowed his antisemitism to get completely out of control and jeopardise the state. E.g. in WWII German planning priortized the holocaust over defeating the Russians, even though a Russian invasion would certainly mean the end of the regime. But Stalin showed signs of growing antisemitism as he got older. The regime fabricated evidence of a Doctor's Plot where Jewsish Doctors were executed on trumped up charges and sinister talk of deporting Jews as had been done with other minorities.

      Actually I found out another chilling similarity. It's well known that the Germans mistreated captured Russians, allowing millions of them to starve to death. What's less well known is how the Russians mistreated their German ethnic minority, essentially enslaving them even after the USSR had beaten Germany in World War II

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labor_army#Russian_Germans

      A notable category of labarmymen (German: Trudarmisten) were Russian Germans. In September, 1941 most Germans served in Soviet Army were demobilized and sent home. In 1942 eventually all male Germans of ages from 16 to 50 years and all female Germans of ages 16-45 without children younger than 3 years were conscripted to labor duty. Most of them worked at "NKVD objects" (i.e., basically in the same conditions as in Gulag prison camps; the Germans were supposed to be housed separate camps, but this was not always done), and in coal mining and petroleum industries, railroad construction, ammunition, general construction, and other industries. Many lost their lives in the labor army.

      Basically the Labor army was dismissed in 1945, but Germans were held for much longer. In 1948 they were transferred to the status of "special settlers" and were not allowed to return home. In 1955, after the official visit of Chancellor of Germany Adenauer to the Soviet Union and signing a number of Soviet-German agreements, this status was abolished (the process of resettlement of Germans to Germany was started at this time as well). Still, the Germans that were initially deported from European and border regions (in particular, Volga Germans) were not allowed to return. So if anyone smugly points out that democracies like the US and the UK are no better than tyrannies due to their mistreatment of ethnic minorities from enemy countries in war time, its worth pointing out that tyrannies are much more ruthless.
      --
      echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
  65. OEM costs perhaps? by Tungbo · · Score: 1

    From the UK Register article, to bundle in a MS Vista and Office cost a bit over $1000. I don't know the OEM costs in US, Europe, or Africa. Does any one have real data for comparison?

  66. Re:A Good Assessment by pandrijeczko · · Score: 1
    I know the postings aren't yours but I really do find it very difficult to take any posting seriously where the author has not even attempted to use capitalisation or punctuation properly.

    Sure, I automatically forgive the occasional mistake but when it's someone who has quite clearly never finished their English grammar class, why should I then take their political or socio-economic viewpoints seriously?

    --
    Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.
  67. Yes, but then who does China sell it's goods to? by Hashi+Lebwohl · · Score: 1

    If the US economy 'collapses', and I believe it is sliding down a very slippery slope right now, who will China sell stuff to? The US is surely Chinas biggest market, by a long, long way.

    --
    I'm in to sadism, bestiality and necrophilia. Am I flogging a dead horse?
  68. Almost as funny as China vs. Piratebay by heroine · · Score: 1

    Still waiting for China probe of Piratebay.

  69. "will will" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    not only "...will they also look at Microsoft's practice of bundling other software programs within its Windows operating system", but they "'will will' also look at Microsoft's practice..."

  70. Monopoly or tax? by hackingbear · · Score: 0, Troll

    China sues Microsoft for exactly the same real reason as US and EU -- Microsoft has tons of money. You know, when you get rich, you'll be followed after by lawyers, tax man, regulators, police or the gangsters.

  71. Don't like it? Don't buy it. by dindi · · Score: 2, Interesting

    That should stand on all software boxes.
    If they bundle whatever with windows, it is their business, and the whole EU suing is a ridicule.

    Am I a MS fanboy? Not. I do not use Windows (I have one machine with it that I turn on once a month or less for testing software).

    Up to2 weeks ago, the only MS product I used was an xbox 360, which naturally died, and was my last ever MS product I purchased. (I love my new PS3 though, so thanks MS to open my eyes).

    Yes, for servers it is Linux and BSD, and MAC on desktop.

    So No. I do not like, or protect MS, but they should price their product as they like, and they should bundle it with whatever they want.

    How comes no one says : hey you have MSN messenger in xbox, and so you are damaging google and AOL( AIM), and ICQ.......

    Everyone should have the right to say to a customer : "I hate you, and now your price is 100, even though your neighbour's price is 40."

    It is like I sue BMW for having an mp3 player bundled with my car, which is built in, and is a bit problematic to remove.

    Stupid world, stupid people. Then again, if you do not like it, just buy something else.

    Oh... yes I switched to MAC after Vista came out. One week of usage, and I saw that this was the end of me and MS.

    just my 2c .... you can of course go out, buy it (even if you know it sucks) then complain and sue ....

  72. Re: pathetic fact about slashdotters on China by dosun88888 · · Score: 1

    I could list the things that I dislike about China, and then you could refute them as to why they make sense in whatever reason. I will fundamentally disagree with both the reasoning and basic intent of every policy that they have, and you'll call me closed minded. I will explain why it's more closed minded to not think like me. We will come to an impasse. I will then propose a contest, but let me warn you that I have spent the last 3 years building up an immunity to Iocaine powder.

    Don't worry, I think that every country is severely fucked up. It's not just China. The world will be a better place when we figure out a workable and decent way to govern ourselves. We're still trying to do that.

  73. Easily enough solved: by ThousandStars · · Score: 1
    If China starts enforcing IP laws, Microsoft won't have a supposed monopoly for long.

    Call it a hunch, but as other posters have noted, it seems unlikely that this is genuinely about monopolies.

  74. Actually that's wrong, there are free filters avai by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There's a compatibility, which works perfectly fine. I've been sending it to colleagues for a year now.

    Microsoft Office Compatibility Pack for Word, Excel, and PowerPoint 2007 File Formats

    http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=941b3470-3ae9-4aee-8f43-c6bb74cd1466&displaylang=en

    By installing the Compatibility Pack in addition to Microsoft Office 2000, Office XP, or Office 2003, you will be able to open, edit, and save files using the file formats new to Word, Excel, and PowerPoint 2007. The Compatibility Pack can also be used in conjunction with the Microsoft Office Word Viewer 2003, Excel Viewer 2003, and PowerPoint Viewer 2003 to view files saved in these new formats. For more information about the Compatibility Pack, see Knowledge Base article 924074.

  75. Or America ripping off the world? by os2fan · · Score: 1
    Here in Australia, we pay something like $50 to $100 more in royalties simply because we are not the US.

    For example, the HP 35s calculator i am looking at, costs in the US $50. Over here, it's $120, which means that we are paying $70 more simply because we are not the US.

    The same situation exists in Europe.

    Part of the investigations is largely because the US is in reciept of large unfair trade advantage (in that they can charge different royalties for different markets). Wonder when the market says enough is enough?

    --
    OS/2 - because choice is a terrible thing to waste.
    1. Re:Or America ripping off the world? by Scr3wFace · · Score: 1

      No its the Taxes/tarrifs Australia and the EU place on these items.

  76. Why is this good thingâ¦. by Scr3wFace · · Score: 1

    For years the Chinese government has allowed the commercial production of pirated materials for the benefit of party officials of the PRC. This of course is part of the price of cheap production that western companies are fully aware of and have factored into their bottom line. You would be very naive to think that China does not maintain a full catalog of everything that is produced in the country, and after the set production quota is met you think the assembly line shut down. Chinaâ(TM)s antitrust probe/threat wither rumor or fact, is extortion, companies moved production to China for one simple reason, cheap labor, raise the cost of doing business and companies start to look elsewhere. So the cost of doing business in China matrix would look something like thisâ¦. (PRC tax + estimated piracy losses + PRC party liaisons/bribes + extremely cheap labor + transport to market = profit)... So how is this a good thing? As the price of fuel rises, it will become cheaper to move production closer to where the actual legitimate products are being purchased. (Mexico, newest EU member states).

  77. Wow... way to shaft your buddies by flayzernax · · Score: 0

    China: Hey will u help us pwn our n000bz so th3y don't get the t1naman n3wz0r?

    Microsft: sure! buy our software really cheep and sell it to your students and we'll offer up our NSA and CIA spyware for free!

    China: j00 r0xx0r! M$

    Microsoft: thanks!

    China: w3 su3 y000!

  78. Stop regurgitating lame FUD. Get a new argument. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In Other News... car makers bundling radios, gps, air bags and brakes within vehicles. More at 11. Breaking news . . . A Slashdot user, identified a "TheBoll", represented by user ID number 300428, failed to think for himself today. In a failed attempt to demonstrate a supposed double standard, TheBoll regurgitated a lame, FUD argument.

    Preliminary reports indicate that he was attempting argue that everyone bashes Microsoft for their practise of bundling their product into computer sales, while other manufacturers do it all the time, without question.

    Hold on, folks, . . . yes, We are now receiving word that TheBoll was attemting to use a "car analogy", involving autos, car stereos, air-bags, GPS and brakes, in his failed attempt, and that he didn't realize that none of the manufacturers of those particular products were, themselves, monopolies. This resulted in an apples-to-oranges comparison and failed miserably.

    It has also been pointed out that this failure can easily be verified by googling lists of Car manufacturers, radio manufacturers, GPS manufacturers, Air Bag Manufacturers and Brake Manufacturers. It then becomes apparent that, due to the numerous different manufactures for each product type, there can be no monopolies, thus no company has the power to force you to purchase their product.

    The sentiment, here on the streets is: "TheBoll, y0u fa1L 1t, you dumb fucking asshole."

    Please stay tuned as this story as it develops.

    This is Anonymous Coward reporting.
  79. Re:A Good Assessment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0



          I am at work and dont have time for proper typing, I cut that class and dont spend my days on the keyboard and am in no way skilled at typing. I write in stream of consciousness in case your wondering in order to get it out, dont have time for construct the paragraph properly here at my job.

          What you are really trying to say is that I have made some excellent observations (in addition to the OP's) but despite that, your liberal left wing leanings in addition to my grammaticaly challenged verbiage further eroded by my lack of typing skils (since I am at work and dont care and do it fast and in stealth) prevent you from accepting anything I have said.

    Whatever, back to your regularly scheduled idiocy!

  80. Unless.. by lusiphur69 · · Score: 1

    Unless those documents contain any of the new functionality included with Office 2007. We have deployed 2003 and in a similar situation, while the compatibility pack enables viewing of documents with the 2007 format and adds the format as an option to save to, the function is often broken. I was stumped by a senior manager asking why he received the message the file could not be saved as it is in use, as the workbook in question was not set for simultaneous updates and the file was not opening in read-only. Then I realized he was trying to save as a 'Excel 2007 Workbook', using Office 2003 enterprise + compatibility pack. Just FYI, theres really no denying that Microsoft's practices in this area (and for that matter, Adobe's) are reprehensible.

  81. Chinese governement denies this proble by Julie188 · · Score: 1

    So the Chinese are saying today that the original story, in the Shanghai Securities News wasn't true. I'm not sure I believe the news report or the government. Does the Chinese government care about creating an open, free economy? It might want to start by weeding out all the counterfeiting going on under its nose. But, it's a little distracted too busy censoring the Internet ...

  82. There was a time ... by jotaeleemeese · · Score: 1

    ... when Korea and Japan were also just copying, had no innovation, etc, etc, etc.

    Japanese products were synonymous with cheap, bad quality.

    Some westerners should have learned a lesson or two from that, like innovation may come where you less expect it, as a matter of fact it may be there but we don't recognize it as such yet.

    --
    IANAL but write like a drunk one.
    1. Re:There was a time ... by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 1

      Correlation does not equal causation. Name one product or idea or anything that Chinese have done in the past 10 years. I can't.

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
  83. You can't steal software. by jotaeleemeese · · Score: 1

    You can copy it illegally. If you are going to enter the debate use the correct terminology, it is not by chance that there is a vast body of law dealing with copyright infringement instead of lumping it with common theft.

    Back to topic, in China people have been executed for running piracy businesses, so it is not exactly like they are doing nothing about it, but it is nigh impossible to prosecute everybody in a market where a monopoly is selling goods way above a fair price (this creates a black market for counterfitted goods).

    --
    IANAL but write like a drunk one.
  84. This point has been explained many times. by jotaeleemeese · · Score: 1

    MS is a monopoly (legally recognized as such).

    You saying it isn't will not change the facts.

    --
    IANAL but write like a drunk one.
  85. Utter bullshit. by jotaeleemeese · · Score: 1

    One would have a few machines with MS Office accessible for such cases.

    Most internal documents could be handled perfectly well with an alternative since they would no be intended for public consumption outside the company.

    I have never seen a business collapsing for such an inconsequential thing as word processing formats. When there are issues people do the rational thing: agree to a common format both can work with and move on to important things.

    This pseudo argument to scare monger adoption of other products is tired, untrue and irrelevant.

    --
    IANAL but write like a drunk one.