Slashdot Mirror
IBM Pushing Microsoft-Free Desktops
walterbyrd and other readers are sending along the news that IBM is partnering worldwide with Canonical/Ubuntu, Novell, and Red Hat to offer Windows-free desktop PCs pre-loaded with Lotus software and ready for customizing by local ISVs for particular markets. The head of IBM's Lotus division is quoted: "The slow adoption of Vista among businesses and budget-conscious CIOs, coupled with the proven success of a new type of Microsoft-free PC in every region, provides an extraordinary window of opportunity for Linux." One example of the cooperation: "Canonical, which sells subscription support for Ubuntu, a Linux operating system that scores high marks on usability and 'the cool factor,' will re-distribute Lotus Symphony via their repositories. Symphony 1.1 will be available through the Ubuntu repositories by the end of August."
... but can I get one without Lotus Notes too?
The 2008 will be known as the year of Lotus Notes on the desktop!
My blog
Ibm press release.
Help stamp out iliturcy.
This is a perfect example on why IBM stays ahead. They adapt. They went from proprietary to open, from DOS to Linux. From punch cards to computers. Despite how "old" IBM seems, they always seem to adapt, something that some tech companies refuse to do.
Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
The link in TFS didn't work for me (they may have fixed it by now), but here's the marketwatch article and BigBlue's press release.
Oh, and uh, WOOHOOOOOOOO!!!!!
Caveat Utilitor
I not I'm not supposed to read the article, but when I tried to the site gives a "story not found" message.
IBM should get together with the people who created Commodore 64 and see about modifying it for a networked business environment. We already know the C64 is suitable for networked environments because people have already abandoned Vista to have lan parties on their Commodore 64s. T
Register print article
That link actually works.
Now that I got a few informative's, lets get a few flaimbait's...
I went to Canonical and "bought" (put in cart) a year of Ubuntu Desktop Support... $293!!!! #)%}&"#^*! That's about as bad as Vista Ultimate!
Server Support was $881!! THAT IS MORE THAN W2K3!
So why would I, a self admitted Windows Admin, ever want to switch? Surely I am going to want more than "community support" if I ever dare put a production ERP system on Linux. But if that costs more than the Windows Server I know and have used daily for 10 years (as have the other IT staff), from a business standpoint, why bother?
No comprende? Let me type that a little slower for you...
IBM should get together with the people who created Commodore 64 and see about modifying it for a networked business environment. We already know the C64 is suitable for networked environments because people have already abandoned Vista to have lan parties on their Commodore 64s.
Has a nice ring to it, don't it?
No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism. - Winston Churchill
I guess they still need to avenge Microsoft's dropping of OS/2 back in the 90's.
Kudos to IBM and hope they'll start opening up and bundling Notes as well.
Views expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the author.
Once upon a time, I worked at a company that used Lotus Notes as their primary mail client. The interface was horrible, ugly, cluttered, and didn't follow any of the conventions of the host OS (Windows), or of any other possible host OS. It also wasn't particularly usable at less than full screen. Fortunately, they also maintained an IMAP server, so I was able to avoid using Notes completely. Ubuntu without Lotus would be worth much more to me than Ubuntu with Lotus.
I guess I should start learning linux. Maybe buy a few books to study and frequent the irc channels. It finally looks like it might have a shot at replacing Windows.
.
I stopped reading right there.
If there is anything less "cool" on this world than the corporate desktop I have yet to find it.
But I've never met any "common man" family with a linux based PC. I find it strange to hear that previous article on penetration of linux in new PCs in the UK up to 2.8%. As good as linux desktops are, I still can't quite believe that Joe Bloggs with zero knowledge will comprehend the virtues and not be seduced by the fact that almost everybody around him is running windows
As I say, it might just be "where I am". I can't recall anywhere generic selling linux based desktops here so no real surprise I don't know anybody who fits this bill.
I record my sleeptalking
If people start associating Linux with Lotus Notes.
Mr Gates you can't compete! Linux has opened the market on price (MID/Sub notebook). It has opened the possibility of other architectures, (MIPS etc). Is on mobile devices, where is your margin on these systems Mr Gates.
...how do you get rid of IBM?
If you would read the fine print, it states IBM will support the OS. Not the community so you are paying for support from an Enterprise Company that stands behind the product by putting their own Brand on the line.
The 2008 will be known as the year of Lotus Notes on the desktop!
and this is a good thing.... how?
Anybody want my mod points?
this is it guys, The rest is up to us.
The future is free.
NO SIG
Windows support ain't free and it's largely useless in my experience. It's either "try rebooting" or Nothing to do with us, you need to contact the third party" buck passing.
PS: Linux support isn't compulsory, the cost of the Windows license is...
No sig today...
Frankly, I'd rather see Microsoft in that position -- humbled, force-fed a fresh perspective, and one player among many -- than totally ground out of existence.
What if I do the same thing, and I do get different results?
Either the url is borked or the story no longer exists, so guessing from what we can read:
"The slow adoption of Vista among businesses and budget-conscious CIOs, coupled with the proven success of a new type of Microsoft-free PC in every region, provides an extraordinary window of opportunity for Linux."
So, how I'm reading this is "The slow adoption of Vista provides an opening for Symphony to increase market share" which is a perfectly reasonable strategy for the manager of a product line. (Besides, if you don't like it, you can always download OpenOffice.)
It could also mean "The slow adoption of Vista is cutting into our hardware sales, so we are looking at alternatives to get units out the door" and shipping more copies of Symphony is a happy byproduct.
Either way, it's more new systems that are not running Winders. I don't see a downside.
This could also be read as IBM stating publicly that Vista jumped the shark. ...which is waaaay different from a bunch of geeks in Slashdot saying it.
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
So I guess we win right? The Year of Finally Relaxing is 2008.
As Bullwinkle would say, "this time for sure!".
Hail Eris, full of mischief...
E pluribus sanguinem
What is symphony? Never heard of it....
Seriously, does anyone use Lotus products anymore? I thought they died out in the 90's...
Seriously? If you want a professional to do work for you, it's called "professional services", costs an arm and a leg, and only occasionally does something other than totally hose up your environment.
The "support" for most software (and even hardware) goes about as far as "is it plugged in?"
The only support I ever use is hardware support, and half the time, even with Sun, you have to tell then what part to send you.
Does anybody really sit on the phone with IBM, Sun, Microsoft, to try to troubleshoot a complex problem?
It is good they are now giving both consumers, small businesses and large scale company's the option to choose Linux over windows... It's pretty clear from a shareholder perspective why they are doing it and once again it shows their leadership in the market. Like anything though it will require time :)
Haven't they been pushing a Microsoft free desktop since they used PC-DOS instead of MS-DOS? And then pushed OS/2 instead of Windows?
Now let's see if they will also push screenshots of Lotus Symphony Microsoft-Free as well.
...about that OS/2 thing.
My comments are my own, and do not represent the views of my employer, my spouse, my children, or my cats.
So far here inside of Big Blue, unless you're in the Research Division (like the folks in Almaden for example), you're still using Windows. So IBM may be telling IBM Global Services' customers to go sans MSFT. But for the most part IBM is still a large consumer of MSFT.
If this ever really succeeds over time taking away Microsoft's gigantic market share in the desktop OS market, then IBM would achieve it's ULTIMATE REVENGE for the licensing issues Microsoft took advantage of way way back in the past. Revenge is a dish best served buggy and full of crashes :)
"In the kingdom where everything dies, the sky is mortal."
Yay, this is good news. This is the change of times. Its time for all users to adapt to a better future.
Love Linux and 3D (OpenGL) Linux games.
If IBM really wants to help replace Windows PCs with Linux PCs, it can do a lot more than just partner with Canonical. IBM could help fix the two biggest gaps in Linux's ability to "do what Windows does": full PDF and SWF suites that "just work".
PDF is a standard format that Adobe dominates with Acrobat. It's the favorite way for offices to send around read only documents that will have no chance of problems. Unless you send it to someone with Linux, in which case something funny can happen. Not so much in reading it, but if they do indeed want to make changes anyway. The SW for editing and managing PDF docs isn't so reliable on Linux, and not at all widely available. It's probably easy for IBM to fix that problem, because PDF availability for Linux isn't so bad, just needs some more "formalizing". Getting a brand name, but still open source, edition from IBM with support and training will help.
The real problem that needs engineering is Flash. GNU's Gnash player for SWF is all some Linux distros, like for PowerPC, have for playing YouTube and all the other Flash web content. More and more Flash is used for commercial sites, especially as Flash starts to run on mobile phones. But Gnash barely works, and often doesn't work with YouTube. IBM could really level the playing field by making enough contributions to Gnash that it "just works", even as Flash evolves and other players have to keep up with it. It takes a place like IBM to do that to Adobe's dominance without Adobe either winning or even killing the competitor. Gnash is also pretty close, so IBM's investment in it would be the finishing touches that make all the difference in corporate IT strategy decisions.
PDF and SWF are still Windows territory. With a little investment, IBM could not only make Linux a first class business platform, but also take (and deserve) credit for it under an IBM logo.
And if Novell paid a little more attention to Evolution, which competes with Outlook, the whole Desktop could be a Windows killer in the right hands.
--
make install -not war
I'm not in the Research Division and I'm using Linux exclusively. IBM internally even has a full stack based on RHEL5.2.
Sure, no workstation I have received was preloaded linux, but all the pages point to the place to download the Linux equivalent to the Windows preload.
I personally would welcome this open source collaboration client. But, IBM is going to make money by selling the server side. I'd be more on the band wagon if Domino were open sourced and made available. I'll bet if Domino and Notes were free, Microsoft would be sweating bullets.
Interesting that Ubuntu will make Symphony available. It is not Free Software.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotus_Symphony
Currently the Ubuntu Philosophy allows non-free software only for drivers.
http://www.ubuntu.com/community/ubuntustory/philosophy
Penny - plain text accounting
Strange. IBM got out of the PC/desktop business around three years ago & sold it to Lenovo. The fearful among their customers worry they may be playing with the idea of getting out of the server market as well, evidenced by their recent decision to license certain low-end servers to be built & sold by - you guessed it - Lenovo.
I'm also in Australia & I know two complete n00bs with eeePCs. All bought in the last three months, taking the number of "common man" (well, both are girls) linux desktop installs from 0 to 2.
That's an infinite percentage rise - if linux continues with this growth rate, then....
Symphony is available for Linux and Windows, with Mac OS X support announced for the first half of 2008. It is based on Eclipse Rich Client Platform from IBM Lotus Expeditor for its shell and OpenOffice.org 1.1.4 for the core office suite code.[1] OpenOffice.org version 1.1.4 was dual licensed under both the GNU Lesser General Public License and Sun's own SISSL, which allowed for entities to change the code without releasing their changes. Therefore, IBM does not have to release the source code of Symphony.
dunno why, but i feel like that is the start of the breakthrough for linux, big time.
Read radical news here
IBM at the end of business today had a 174.60B market capitalization - more than HP and Dell put together and within reachable range of Microsoft's 239B. IBM's trend is up (just off the 52wk high) while Microsoft's is, well, to be kind, not. Microsoft nearly killed them -- by 1994 their value had dropped to 1/10th of what it is today. For the past twelve years however IBM's stock has been as good or better as an investment than Microsoft's. IBM's value today is more than five times what it was when Microsoft was knifing their OS/2 love child in 1990. And IBM didn't just spend 7B engineering a product so abhorrent it needs this kind of "no matter what you've heard, our product doesn't suck" kind of marketing.
I hope the tide is turning. Maybe this will help.
Help stamp out iliturcy.
It's nice that IBM is aiming for a Microsoft-free desktop. I don't even begrudge them that they are pushing their own proprietary software as part of that. But the Lotus products are simply obsolete...
Yeah... like Munich. BWAHAHAHAHA!!! Yeah, they really did a bang-up job there!
Not only is Teh Lunix not ready for Teh Desktop... but Teh Lunix isn't even ready to be a network operating system. As Munich could tell you, if they weren't desperately trying to spin their failures as "success".
She's only a "badder bitch" because her customer service staff are stupid. I assume you meant "bad"
in the Webster sense.
Ma Bell's shattered pieces have slowly been coming back together for the past few decades. What's worse, she's more of a dumbass bitch now than she ever was before.
There, I fixed it for you.
This isn't a "proprietary-free" desktop, it's a "Microsoft-free" desktop.
Surprisingly enough there ARE a few other companies that have managed to survive the Microsoft onslaught and remain in the software business.
Windows client licenses are not free, you know. Not only do you have to pay them, but they actually expect you to count them. How dumb is that?
Really - who pays for client licenses on a file and print server? That's just stupid.
Help stamp out iliturcy.
While the idea of creating a Microsoft Free desktop or laptop is very good, IBM -- in its typically ham handed way -- is ruining the case by trying to use this to push its Lotus suite of products. The initiative would have taken off far better had they decided to bundle in Open Office ...
But IBM being IBM they will always believe that they know best .... "he who knows not and knows not he knows not is a ????? "
Insight into much, Influence over nothing !
That it's actually attractive enough an idea to make it the theme of an advertising campaign is even better. Perhaps "Vista free" is this year's "Fat Free" of the computing world. Imagine the Vista logo with a red circle and strike on the box of PCs, phones, printers, scanners, external media, routers and switches along with the text: "Don't worry. This product does not contain or require Windows Vista." Or maybe this nice logo.
Help stamp out iliturcy.
If this is OK with /. - we're a small brewery in Pickering Ontario. For anyone in Toronto try Al's Cask Ale at C'est What on Front St. We also sell Durham Signature Ale in Bottles @ The Beer Store(s).
A man spends the first half of his life accumulating stuff, the second trying to get rid of it all.
The advertisers of the eee pc or the new Atom netbooks don't make a big deal of the fact that there's no Windows in the box. "Like a PVR - switch it on - and it works." You are right that most people don't care to know and that is perhaps more insightful than I would have expected from your post. I would say you're very perceptive. I would expect that the lack of spyware and viruses on the PCs after six months will only be considered a pleasant bonus.
Help stamp out iliturcy.
It went the other way: "Once you get rid of IBM... how do you get rid of Microsoft."
... and we wore an onion on our belt, as was the fashion of the day, yadda yadda...
Anyway, Microsoft didn't kill IBM. They just smashed their hubris. Perhaps if IBM returns the favor we will be done with the tyranny of monopoly in IT forever. Or maybe in 17 years a scrappy reborn up and coming Microsoft will be there to remind the aging monolithic giant once again that assuming the sale only goes so far.
Help stamp out iliturcy.
You have to destroy the generator which spawns them. Antitrust lawyer needs food, badly!
I used Linux as my primary OS for the majority of the 7 years I worked at IBM. The internal distribution is of course, based on Red Hat, though I used SUSE, Debian (and Ubuntu) as well. It sucked in the early days of the project because Notes ran under wine, rather than a native client. Now with the Eclipse platform, Notes is a "native" client and works much better. Disparaging remarks about Notes aside, the latest release was quite nice to use. I'm sure development has improved even more in the last year since I left, and it was a complete Windows replacement then.
Lotus Notes is a piece of shit, but I figure getting some IBM muscle behind Ubuntu can only be a good thing.
Not ready to say "Year of the Linux Desktop" yet, though.
I think the peak of laughability for me was when I discovered that they expect client licenses for all of the people who might access your web server. As if I might be willing to pay 15 billion dollars to appropriately license all of the billion people who could conceivably access my blog if it was hosted on their legendary IIS.
Google and Apache had better offers and I took 'em up on it because I'm not interested in stealing Microsoft's IP even if it is of such high quality that they can ask so much for it. That, and I don't have a loose 15B to blow on webserver software this year. ;-)
Help stamp out iliturcy.
Novell's focus right now is getting Microsoft's IP into Linux, as I said they would do when they made their legendary deal. Mono with .NET libraries and binary Codecs (embrace, extend, you know what comes next...).
Don't look for them to save you from teh evil Redmond Monster. They're a puppet now and they must dance when Ballmer pulls their strings.
Help stamp out iliturcy.
However, the distro states that (http://www.ubuntu.com/community/ubuntustory/philosophy):
also:
More (http://www.ubuntu.com/):
And also (https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1):
--Mark Shuttleworth
Oh throw me in that briar patch, IBM! Oh wait, do you mean INSIDE IBM? Maybe I should consider another contract with them. If they'd get rid of that business herpes known as Lotus Notes, life WOULD be good...
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
Sweet! a M$ free desktop.... time to dust off my old copy of OS/2 Warp 4!!
I've seen Symphony. It's a backlevel version of Oo that's been integrated with Notes, and, one would assume, Sametime IM which is also part of Notes.
IBM is doing some things right, but they have more to go. Take IBM ClearCase as an example. It is a source control program and their dynamic view has a Linux kernel module. The part they are doing right is, it's GPL. But it's an out of tree source, so they are supporting up to 2.6.18 while 2.6.27 is almost out. Their support note says they will evaluate and support the Enterprise distributions of Red Hat and SUSE just don't expect it to work on a newer kernel (it doesn't). Their installer looks for the specific (two) distributions they support and aborts if it doesn't recognize the distribution. Like if you install it on Fedora Core 3 instead of RedHat Enterprise Linux 4. Hopefully with this Canonical/Ubuntu partnership they will try a little harder to keep up to date and not force you to run specific distributions.
They also document that a Linux ClearCase client can't use a dynamic view to access a vob hosted on windows. That is correct, unless you realize that the kernel mvfs module's source is GPL and you have it. I have a patch http://david.fries.net/thoughts/IBM_ClearCase_mvfs_patch.phpthat adds a for loop to change \ to / (imagine that, windows returning a backslash for path separators), and it then works. So much for all the effort they put into documenting and educating users that it doesn't work.
clone. I don't really see the point of using Lotus Symphony when OpenOffice.Org does the same thing? Lotus Symphony has more bugs and is prone to crash more often than OpenOffice.org does, because Lotus Symphony is still in beta testing and is based on an experimental fork of OpenOffice.org anyway.
I mean why buy an IBM system with Linux on it with Lotus Symphony installed? You can get any brand PC that runs Linux and download Lotus Symphony from IBM's web site for free.
If IBM puts on Lotus Smartsuite for Linux or Lotus Notes for Linux, then people would have a reason for buying an IBM Windows free machine.
Remember, Slashdot does not have a -1 disagree moderation, and no, troll, flamebait, and overrated are not substitutes.
i work for ibm.. wheres my linux system? :(
they make me use windows xp.. bleh
I tried that IBM office suite and it's that good. OpenOffice is even better. Office 2007 is so much better! But it's not free. What I hate about these two freewares aside from usability is the JAVA Memory Hog!
"Why does open source imitate more than innovate?"
Good question. We suspect the problem is that most open source software is written by programmers.
Although programmers are similar to human beings in many respects, and may even be mistaken for humans when observed briefly from a great distance or under adverse viewing conditions, controlled observations clearly prove they are distinct. Since programmers are a different species (as the term is broadly defined, since unlike other species open source programmers have never been observed to procreate -- or at least the very least we feel sorry for any researcher who might witness such an event) they tend to construct interfaces that are either incomprehensible to the human mind, or in recognition of their own limitations, construct systems that are simply a mimicry of human designed interfaces (aka "human interfaces"). Here the term "construct" is used intentionally because we cannot in good conscience use the term "design," with all that it implies in this context, as most evidence indicates programmer-constructed interfaces are unusable by human beings.
We performed several tests.
Emacs, an advanced operating system constructed by a programmer, was tested first. We requested our test subjects start emacs, write a short sentence, save a file containing the sentence, and cleanly exit the system -- all without the intervention of an open source programmer. No human test subject was able to do so. In fact, mere open source programmers were typically insufficient to complete the task: an open source programmer with a gray neck beard was often required.
We contrast emacs with Microsoft Word. The latter is not regarded as having an ideal interface, but nearly two thirds of human beings under the age of 40 who grew up in a developed Western country were able to complete the open-edit-save-exit task without the intervention of a programmer. Even marketing staff had little trouble opening the application, saving the file, and exiting; most confusion revolved around the requirement to type a short sentence, but in all honesty this wasn't the fault of the software and furthermore this was the portion of the task least likely to elicit effective guidance from the programmer.
An equivalent test with Open Office, written by open source programmers but sporting a derivative interface, returned similar results.
Next we tested the GIMP. Several graphic designers simply began to cry when placed in front of the testing terminal. Further testing was aborted on ethical grounds after one designer became physically ill. Although the results were officially recorded as "inconclusive," we remain skeptical as to the usability of the GIMP's interface by anyone other than a GIMP programmer. Similarly, we remain skeptical as to the graphic design proficiency of those programmers, but this is strictly conjecture and remains untested.
With commercial software from well established vendors we presume there is a high likelihood that one or more human beings will be responsible for the human interface design. Although further research is needed, it is possible that the absence of humans on many open source projects results in unusable or derivative interfaces. Furthermore, there may be aspects of the typical open source development process that discourage participation by humans. Again, further research is needed.
I used to work for IBM and I've worked at several places that used notes and God I hated it. The icons on the menu bar are totally useless. They might as well be alien symbols. Make a list of the top ten things you do in Lotus every day and is even one of them an icon in the menu bar? Nope. Print, how often do you do that? Frequently? Is there a printer icon? Nope. And what the hell does replicate mean anyway? I want to check my mail not clone somebody. And what a memory hog. If you're required to keep notes running all day to catch those all important emails addressed to "ALL" then forget running anything else. If we were testing software on our PCs we always had to remember to shut down notes otherwise our tests would fail for no reason. Not enough memory. Thankfully I haven't had to use it in almost 10 years now.
"The slow adoption of Vista among businesses and budget-conscious CIOs, coupled with the proven success of a new type of Microsoft-free PC in every region, provides an extraordinary window of opportunity for Linux,"
I really don't understand why people don't get it. It is not that Vista is bad (well it is but that is not the point that I am making here) it is the XP is good. Companies do not want to change when they have a product that works. Why would they change? It makes no sense to them. (at a personal level it should not make sense either but that is a different story) Companies already have something that works and fear changing that. I think they will have even more fear going to something that most of their employees will be completely unfamiliar with, Linux.
As they say: If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
____________
Q: What is the problem with Vista?
A: XP
I'll try anything once. Twice if it tastes good
I am all for PC's being loaded with something other then vista. But one of the biggest down falls is Linux's lack of support for standard media such as protected CD's and DVD's and other newer streaming types. Will there eventually be a legal solution to this problem that would allow users to have to fuss so much with getting the different types of media to work?
Man this place is sooo predictable.
Any discussion of Lotus brings out the trolls & haters. Look I'll say it again. If you haven't been looking at Notes 8, then you can't really complain much.
Complaining about Notes 6 or 7 or when you worked on Notes R5 10 years ago isn't a valid critique. Get over yourselves.
Besides, Outlook sucks. : )
Is there anyone here who actually uses Notes in a business environment and likes it?
davecb5620@gmail.com
How will this impact on Microsofts' bottom line. I would imagine that such news is of note in Redmond. I mean, if it's a sucess, won't the rest of the OEMs follow?
davecb5620@gmail.com
What impact will it have on the market having available an IBM PC preloaded with Linux. Is it not an endorsement of Linux and and encouragement for businesses to try it out. After all it is IBM, the originators of the Personal Computer. Doesn't it also tell us what IBM thinks of the SCO case. After all the Lawyers must have been all over the case.
davecb5620@gmail.com
"I used to work for IBM and I've worked at several places that used notes and God I hated it. The icons on the menu bar are totally useless"
What did the developers say when you told them this?
davecb5620@gmail.com
"OOo was always basically a clone of Microsoft Office, even back when it was a closed-source app called Star Office. It was the only way to get anyone to use it"
..
It's amazing that OOo managed to clone msOffice as it didn't exist yet. More accuratly Ooo was developed from StarOffice at a time when Microsoft was still innovating WordPerfect into Microsoft Word. MS withheld technical information (on the Windows from WP developers until msWord on Windows was already in the shops. Up to a years lead time if I recall correctly
davecb5620@gmail.com
Waitaminnit... is this a new product, or the OLD Lotus Symphony 1.1? If the latter, is anyone besides me old enough to have actually USED Symphony? And do they remember there was a version 2.0? Lotus Symphony was an early attempt to use Lotus 1-2-3 spreadsheet software to have an included word processor and database (actually just a different viewer for a spreadsheet). The word processor was not up to WordStar standards. And this is something we should be cheering for Linux?
So does Lotus Notes still look and work like something that written in the 1980's by forced labor in a Soviet gulag?
Trust me, as an alternative to Microsoft, this is not something I would choose. I've been moving away from Microsoft, and now use Linux on all my computers (although I do occasionally use a Windows 2000 VM). My kids use Windows because they play a lot of games, but I am encouraging them to use Linux when applicable. However, I'm not doing this because XP is awful. XP is pretty good, but XP is on Death Row and I have no desire to use Vista and I definitely have no desire to give Microsoft any more money.
However, given a choice between Microsoft software and IBM software, I'll take Microsoft any day of the week. Nothing says "user hostile" like an IBM application.
You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
that IBM has programmers who understand Windows inside out. Just pay these people to work on WINE. They'd have it debugged within a year.
You and Hurricane 8* touch on what I feel. I am one of those stalwarts hanging on to SmartSuite, and only touching OpenOffice.org grudgingly in limited cases.
Aside from the non-modal InfoBox/SmartTools feature of SmartSuite, there is the very sweet functionality of Word Pro's sections/divisions management of multiple documents assembled as one. Nicely, Word Pro allows for each original document's formatting to be retained. Last time I tried in OO.o, if forced on the document a standard for the WHOLE document, changing ALL the fonts, ALL the page orientation.
The OO.o interface is "jumboey", compared to SmartSuite. I think Symphony, as used as a name, is an insult to SmartSuite, and an insult to the original Lotus Symphony product which -- when it first hit the streets long ago -- was to be a spreadsheet killer. It would merge the best of spreadsheets and database front ends. But, as time went by, 1-2-3, Quattro Pro (Uno-Dos-Tres- Quattro... get it?), and hexed cell (excel, get it?) bested Symphony, and Symphony sang its last song.
Regrettably, neither OO.o NOR the current Symphony have a credible, end-user-friendly, non-DBA, ad hoc, WYSIWYG database front end like Lotus Approach.
Astonishingly, the Open Source community is paralyzed with a mind-bogglingly astounding NIH (Not Invented Here) syndrome in that Lotus Approach's interface is NOT YET adopted. When you copy, copy from the BEST. Base, and others, are so-so. Only due to new technology-derived widgets do they beat Lotus Approach. But, as for charts, reports, forms, (but not necessarily in cross-tabs, as c/ts are Approaches weaker/est feature set), no Open Source would-be analog *i* know of is compelling.
Purportedly, IBM cannot track down all the joint patent holders previously involved with developing SmartSuite. To me, that's tragic, and disingenuous. IBM could has already known WHAT it doesn't hold patents on. They could strip out that code, then tell prospective developers, "Go get your own $6 to $50 copy of SmartSuite online or in surplus stores. Figure out in a few days (easy enough to do) what features are broken. Use new tools and links to restore the stripped functionality and report back to us. The quicker you return the cleanest possible code, the quicker we'll offer you a paying job to join a team similar to what OO.o does under Sun.
Or, IBM and Sun could merge the best of what they have in SS & OO.o, and take away from msoft a significant chunk of the market.
(Reaches for sedative...)
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
As you'll see if you click my username, I've gotten great mileage out of this thread and I don't mind gloating about that a little bit. So I don't mind wasting a little Karma on a trivial comment like this.
If they aren't, they should be. Sharp dealing is one thing. Outright knifing your partners is another thing entirely. Maybe "sore" is not the right word. "Cautious", "Mindful", or "Alert" might be better. One would hope for at least "Aware of history". You know about history, don't you? Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it.
If you knew your cousin was a crackhead, would you let him borrow your car? If your date has three baby daddys supporting her lifestyle, are you still interested in hooking up? Then why, oh why, would you partner with Microsoft after they've treated you that way?
Help stamp out iliturcy.