Slashdot Mirror
TSA To Allow Laptops In Approved Bags
mnovotny writes "TIME is reporting that TSA will be allowing laptops in approved bags through security checkpoints. 'The new rules, announced Tuesday and set to take effect Aug. 16, are intended to help streamline the X-ray inspection lines. To qualify as "checkpoint friendly," a bag must have a designated laptop-only section that unfolds to lie flat on the X-ray machine belt and contains no metal snaps, zippers or buckles and no pockets.'" Don't you feel safer? I wish an independent 3rd-party group could get together and see what they could get through security without being arrested for the experiment. So little of what the TSA is doing is any more than illusion.
It's all black leather covered in studs, spikes and chains.
gotta love a Vampire goth laptop bag to get you wierd looks when wearing a 3 piece suit.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
It would make a point, but I fear that the reaction would be the opposite of what many of us would like. If we showed holes in the security theater that has been built, stricter measures would be put in place and all travellers would be inconvenienced even more.
I'm actually really surprised that the summary suggests that.
Yes, much of this is security theatre, but allowing me to carry my laptop on and attempting to stream-line the current cluster fuck is an improvement none the less.
http://blindscribblings.com - Tasty pop-culture in conceptual fashion.
I should use to take a Clear laptop out of the airport?
Tic-Tac-Toe, Global Thermonuclear War, and relationships all have the same winning move.
Are these TSA-approved laptop bags going to protect my laptop as well as TSA-approved locks keep people out of my luggage?
I'm failing to see the downside?
But then I see the general populace being greatly inconvenienced as a good thing... as it might wake them from their current stupor.
Yes I said worthless.
I have 22 screws, couple of plates, and pins. I should light up a metal detector like a christmas tree. Yet when I fly, I often get waved right through without any apparent reaction. This has happened at multiple busy airports in larger cities. Yet when I go through my local airport (where, oddly enough, they know me) I get the beep and separate pat down.
People meekly accept this BS (along with the liquids ban, et al) as "security" when it's really BS.
Poor, false security is worse than none at all. The only explanation is that when it is busy, they turn down the sensitivity to a ridiculously low level.
People say the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Why? Is there any shortage of bad ones?
Next year, TSA plans to allow people wearing clear body bags through security faster. While you do give up some privacy, think of the minutes you'll save.
To qualify as "checkpoint friendly," a bag must have a designated laptop-only section that unfolds to lie flat on the X-ray machine belt and contains no metal snaps, zippers or buckles and no pockets.
So... the only thing keeping my laptop from falling out of my bag as I carry it (or someone bump-and-grabbing it) is going to be a strip of lint-encrusted velcro?
Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
I haven't flown since 1999.
This isn't enough to make me even consider flying ever again.
How can I get myself put on the no-fly list? I want to make it official.
I support the Center for Consumer Freedom
But anyone who showed that it could be done would be arrested and spend serious jail time.
This is all theatre. It's so the TSA can justify their budget. It's all a joke. If a terrorist wanted to make a point now, he'd drive a car bomb into an airport terminal during a major holiday rush.
We could go back to the "pre-9/11" screenings IF we made sure that every plane had a flight deck door that was secured against anyone in the passenger section getting through it for long enough for the pilot to make an emergency landing.
Instead we live in fear of 4 oz of toothpaste.
Does "metal" apply to just snaps, or are plastic zippers allowed?
As someone who rarely flies, and then only for business, I fail to see the downside to "improving" security by greatly annoying customers and therefore cutting down on the number of passengers per plane. Maybe then they can start adding room between all seats.
In fact, there should be a new restriction saying that anyone weighing over, say, 250 lbs is automatically selected for "secondary screening". 'Cause they might be a drug mule in a fat suit, or something.
At least once you're through security, you're through and it's over. When you're sat next to Mr. World Champ Couch-Potato on a flight, you're stuck having no armrest for the entire flight.
I'm looking at a trip in December, the first time I've flown in several years, and already my teeth are starting to grind. Our transportation system is a fucking joke. Between the TSA bullshit and our airlines acting as if their brains were replaced by tapioca pudding, I just know I'm in for a miserable flight.
Kwisatz Haderach
Sell the spice to CHOAM
This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
It's getting closer and closer to the point where I'll say a two-day drive is preferable to eight hours of dealing with the airport.
Lately democracy seems to be based on the skybox, the Happy Meal box, the X-box, and the idiot box.
and contains no metal snaps, zippers or buckles and no pockets.
explosives and detonators are right out of the question then ?
- Ashraf
I noticed yesterday that I left one of my knives in my backpack; I flew with that bag last week and definitely didn't get pulled aside when I went through security. :\
So, the moral I guess is that TSA probably needs more than just laptops to be laid flat on the scanner, or that they should just take the Walter Sobchak approach and say "Fuck it, Dude, let's go bowling."
'Every story, if continued long enough, ends in death.' --Ernest Hemingway
It would make a point, but I fear that the reaction would be the opposite of what many of us would like. If we showed holes in the security theater that has been built, stricter measures would be put in place and all travellers would be inconvenienced even more.
I'm actually really surprised that the summary suggests that.
The result would be that most travellers would realize how ineffective and useless the current TSA security is, then things might change for the better.
Right now, you can't test them without commiting a crime, and if you do see that they have a weak spot, and speak about it, you have also probably commited a crime. If you photograph them, you have commited a crime.
Basically, criticizing the TSA - except for in the vauges of terms - or investigating it has become a crime.
What exactly can you hide behind a zipper or snap? And why can't it have a pocket? I know it's all silly, but it seems like a ton of bags would be compliant if it weren't for those three things. Is this some secret plan to advance the economy by making travelers all buy new laptop bags?
Look for the Targus lobbyist that pretty much eliminated every existing laptop bag requiring new bags to be purchased for everyone that wants to take advantage of this rule. Right after Xmas he may be looking for a new revenue stream and TSA approved goth might be hot.
> So little of what the TSA is doing is any more than illusion.
"Any more"?
Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
The TSA's mainly bull shit and bluster by little tin-pot tyrants.
If I was so inclined (and not crippled,) I'd high jack a FedEx or a UPS plane.
Why mess with security if you don't have to.
A fully fueled and loaded plane will go into a large federally owned building regardless of whether there are a hundred passengers plotting a coup on your ass, or a crew lying quietly dead in the back of the plane.
Private aviation is a lot more vulnerable than the cash strapped public carriers.
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
And so one of the many restrictions of post-9/11 flight security goes the way of the dodo in the name of convenience. I predict that we'll see more and more of this in the coming years. Soon, we'll not be required to X-ray our shoes when people forget why we started in the first place.
This is an illustration of how a knee-jerk reaction to tightening security instead of innovating causes us to be less secure than we were before. If we had rethought airplane security from the ground up as opposed to ramping current practices up, we might have actually learned something from 9/11 in terms of air security. As it stands, I don't think we learned very much at all.
Attention deficit disorder is a complicated issue, spanning several major... HEY LET'S GO RIDE BIKES!
Maybe next they'll have approved shoes that you don't have to take off?
They are looking at the wrong stuff.
Can the sniffers detect sodium?
Lithium?
Every time you call tech support, a little kitten dies.
It's not just you, so please don't take this personally, but being searched, patted down like a common criminal for just trying to use mass transportation is an "inconvenience" and not an assault on our civil liberties?
When we lose time, productivity, increase the stress in our busy lives, and just hassled, it's now an inconvenience. Well, I'm tired of it and I fly only once a year now, if that, and if more of us do that, then the airlines are going to be inconvenienced by loss of business and the horrible customer service folks at the airlines who are quick to apologize for the "inconvenience" when they do not tell us when a flight is delayed or canceled resulting in a loss of revenue will be inconvenienced with the loss of their jobs. Of course that won't happen because the incompetent airline execs will go to Congress and beg for bailout (taxpayer) money arguing that it's "needed" for the economy and in the meantime, they will give themselves millions of dollars in bonuses for a great job. And we wonder why the out of work bastard who's job was sent overseas is walking around saying, "Bullshit! Bullshit!" to himself.
God! I'm grumpy today!
I went through airport security (twice -- once in BOS and once in OGG) with a 90mm Schmitt-Cassegrain telescope in my carry-on. Now this thing is essentially an aluminum cylinder 4 inches in diameter and 10 inches long. It was never even questioned. This was in addition to my usual assortment of DSLR gear and electronics. And an XO-1 laptop.
:)
I was expecting a strip-search.
Ahh but you see, if they did anything to private aviation, it'd affect their own flights. So no more bush just walking up to the private jet with no security checks.
A fully fueled and loaded plane will go into a large federally owned building regardless of whether there are a hundred passengers plotting a coup on your ass, or a crew lying quietly dead in the back of the plane.
Which could easily be shot down.
When you hijack a plane with enough people on board, shooting the plane down can still give a huge image hit on the ones that did the shooting, even if it was the right thing to do.
On a plane with only terrorists onboard, it would be very easy to give order to have it shot down.
A friend of mine flew a commuter airline out of SeaTac a couple of years ago (after 9/11, well into the TSA era). He started out on a cross-state drive to a family reunion, but blew his transmission a few miles out of Seattle. After a rush to get towed back home, he booked a last minute flight, called a cab and made a dash to the airport. He caught the flight at the last minute and flew to Spokane. Upon arrival (with no other hassles) he discovered that he had overlooked the fact that he was carrying two handguns (one in his jacket and one in what ended p as carry-on luggage) plus ammo. He has a permit to carry concealed weapons and is so used to doing so that he simply didn't notice.
Neither did the TSA. There's one data point for your experiment.
Have gnu, will travel.
I can tell that it's worse to fly when you're obese than sitting next to someone who is obese.
Anybody who (like me) is feeling cynical about the whole idea of buying a new $100 laptop bag with the special TSA-approved laptop zone, the solution is pretty straightforward - just continue to put your laptop in the plastic bin.
The laptop, keys, and pocket change thing take up maybe 10 seconds of my time - 5 seconds to take out and 5 seconds to put back where they belong (but that's because I have my shit together unlike the guy in front of me who inevitably manages to spend the better part of 5 minutes putting his stuff on the conveyor belt). Laptop is no big deal, really ... it's the shoes thing that pisses me off and makes me feel like every last vestige of my dignity has been removed ...
If libertarians are so opposed to effective government, why don't they all move to Somalia?
Well these approved laptop bags are going to be worthless. No pockets! WTF!
Yes: http://www.informationweek.com/news/security/privacy/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=207401604
The world is made by those who show up for the job.
It's Security Pantomime
...all travellers would be inconvenienced even more.
That's a good idea. Make 'em mad as hell. Then maybe they'll demand an end to this hysteria. We must take our freedom back "by whatever means necessary".
What?
The TSA is George W. Bush's patrionage mill. It does NOTHING to improve air safety. It does PLENTY to slow down air travellers. Yesterday I was at the airport in Burbank, CA. It took me TEN MINUTES to get through the ID line-and there were EIGHT of us in line! The stupid TSA person seemed to be going in slow motion. First she read the name on the ticket (taking 30 seconds to do so)-then she spent another 30 seconds looking at my driver's license...THEN she spent another 30 seconds looking over everything and stamping my boarding pass. Move another TEN FEET to the metal detector and ANOTHER TSA guy who asks for the IDs all over again Why? because you're afraid I might have changed identies in the TEN FOOT OPEN WALK from her to you?
There was a woman who had an obviously sealed bottle of commerical drinking water. They made her throw it away! WHY? All it did was make her small child cry-and her have to spend another 3 bucks when she got to the other side of the checkpoint.
Has it occurred to anyone that under today's new hijacking policies, 9/11 would not have happened? Today's rules do not allow either pilot to leave the cockpit if the plane if hijacked-instead they are to IMMEDIATELY land the aircraft! Not to mention that the cockpit doors are now heavily reinforced and today's passengers would make MINCEMEAT of anyone dumb enough to TRY hijackng an aircraft!
The TSA is an expensive joke! It needs to be abolished immediately!
IMO, the existence of the TSA is one of those "the terrorists have already won" things. Most of the changes that have taken place in the U.S. are not that bad singularly, but when taken as a whole and the magnitude of the number of people affected, it's had a serious negative impact on our society and I'd argue our productiveness as well.
I'm not saying we shouldn't be careful, but it's quite obvious to anyone here that none of these measures, the ones that merely inconvenience us at best, are disguised forms of monitoring for things besides potential acts of terrorism. How easy it is to violate the fourth amendment by just indefinitely taking away someone's laptop without cause.
The last time I traveled out of country with my wife and kids, we got the "random star" on our boarding passes... which singled us out for special scrutiny. Right. Because a family of four, including a two year old and a five year old are prime suspects. I don't think they do this anymore, but the absurdity of all the restrictions is just incredible.
And how about the recent "clear pass" article? What kind of extortion is that? We'll make you wait on line for hours unless you pay us $100/year! That's effectively how I see it, since the security measures are a joke.
Ok, rant off.
Stupid sexy Flanders.
Fishing boat or submarine and detonate next to a port. Panic follows. Publish a statement saying it was radiological and biochemical.
No amount of damage control the government can do will stop people thinking the worst. Stock markets will plummet. Buy up cheap shares and profit.
Why exactly are we not allowed to carry screwdrivers etc on board and then (I did this last week at DTW, Detroit) you receive a sharp metal knife and fork in the restaurant after security?
Timo's Audio Software http://www.esseraudio.com
In fact, someone has actually tried taking various things through security, just to see what happens... see:
http://www.zug.com/gab/index.cgi?func=view_thread&thread_id=68619 (NSFW)
http://www.zug.com/gab/index.cgi?func=view_thread&thread_id=68809
and this one shows what a joke it is:
http://www.zug.com/gab/index.cgi?func=view_thread&head=1&thread_id=74827
Are there still people out there who think that airport security is any more than an annoyance?
Seriously, I know I run with an abnormally well-informed crowd, but they are far beyond ridiculous.
"The cup is in turn designed for holding hot or cold liquids, and has an open rim and closed base." --US Patent #5425497
A quick google search leads to a couple manufacturers that have patent applications pending for their TSA-approved laptop bags. One company seems to claim a trademark on "Checkpoint Friendly".
Airport security will get a lot more uncomfortable when they catch somebody trying to light a bomb hidden up their ass.
If the president hijacks Air Force One and plows it into the White House, then I'm not gonna vote for him in the next election. Just sayin'.
A post a day keeps productivity at bay.
Are you sure you know what is in those packages on that FedEx or UPS plane? They could be highly valuable and/or highly dangerous, or they could have brought on board a valuable political hostage snatched earlier.
To beat the Jack Bauers in the world you need contingencies on top of contingencies nigh ad infinitum.
Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
I purposefully didn't mention civil liberties since we seem to have already given those up without a fight. :(
I was recently issued one of the new temporary ID's from my state. I was amazed when TSA not only accepted the temporary paper ID but then informed me that I would be better off using my expired state ID instead of the new paper one. Apparently TSA will accept any expired ID up to a year after expiration as a legitimate form of ID to allow you on the plane. TSA is not nearly as concerned for air safety as the passengers they inconvenience are. I am glad to hear that they are tightening their laptop security procedures though. I can already foresee the delays at the gate while a pissed off executive argues that his laptop bag is of the approved variety. In reality though I can't see this saving much time, TSA is notorious for enforcing rules and regulations that are not posted in plain sight or ever communicated to passengers and I am certain that trying to allow this exception is only going to serve up more chaos at the airport.
If the president hijacks Air Force One and plows it into the White House, then I'm not gonna vote for him in the next election. Just sayin'.
Well the President maybe, but Cheney would probably get away with it.
echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
> We must take our freedom back "by whatever means necessary".
You're not so different from the terrorists :)
I think the whole notion that terrorists will even try to hijack a plane again is absurd. Even if they get on board and were strapped with explosives, I think people on board would still act. They might blow up, or they might get to kick the shit out of a terrorist. Either way, I don't think we will have a repeat of 9/11. No, the next act of terror would be a car bomb or something similar. If the terrorists really want to strike fear into the heart of Americans, they would send a dozen of their people with machine guns into a shopping mall and cut loose. It's low tech and a lot easier to do than hijacking a plane.
- Business (Teleconferencing solves this problem for 95% of cases. 5% of the time you need that face 2 face time).
- Pleasure (Stop and take a look around your own country. Enjoy the local pleasures and save $ at the same time).
- Other (Visiting family abroad. This one's a little hard to say no to I suppose).
I think that once the mass population has had enough of this utter crap and airlines, tourism, etc start to tank into the crapper we will start to see some sanity returning. All this, "for your protection" crap is pure BS IMO.
Since the authorities can seize the laptop indefinitely, who cares what sort of bag it's in?
Or........
Just let them think they are making things safer, and continue to bring your lighter, and anything else people know they can get through the checkpoints, and let them feel good about themselves.
6 buckets later (2 laptops, the laptop bag, my carryon, my shoes, and the Xbox 360) they scanned EVERY ONE of my common household items to determine that I was not a terr-o-ist, only to discover that 1. Their xray could not actually scan the laptops or 360 accurately and that 2. Due to the design of the chutes, the line was help up even more as I repacked the carryon.
Physics is nothing like religion. If it was, we'd have an easier time trying to raise money!
I agree with your sentiments and I recently discovered a security flaw and I fear that if it is ever known that the type of counter measures that would be required would make the current silliness pale in comparison. It might help them to tighten up the security, but when did the lives of people who travel by plane become so important that it is necessary to spend millions to protect a few while many die for lack of proper disaster management. It is simply poor resource management and a vast over reaction. These security people must have a great lobbyist.
>>If the president hijacks Air Force One and plows it into the White House, then I'm not gonna vote for him
>>in the next election. Just sayin'.
>
>Well the President maybe, but Cheney would probably get away with it.
*whoosh*
-fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
I would!
If I were president.....
given the choice between saving several thousand people in a skyscraper, ...the airplane would be shot-down. It's one of those situations where people WILL die no matter what happens, and it's better that a hundred die than several thousand. If the american people are too pussy to deal with death, well then, they can fire me as president and elect a different guy who would do nothing & let the skyscraper be destroyed.
and saving a hundred-or-so in an airplane,
I'd save the skyscraper filled with people...
The government is not your daddy. Its purpose is not to raid middle-class neighbors' wallets and give it to you.
Spent two hours and missed my flight because the idiots could not believe that i just happen to have a little horse sh%* on my boots and a little diesel fuel on them from getting fuel on the way to the airport.
They finally admitted that I was right, let me go, I had to pay $75 re-booking fee and get another flight.
Then just to show how stupid they are, they wanted to detain me again as I went through security a second time.
-- I am the NRA, enough said...
At full power, a FedEx plane coming into Dulles is going to reach the White House in just a couple of minutes. There is absolutely no way that the proper authorities will be alerted, the situation realized, the decision made, the authorization disseminated, and the equipment readied before it impacts.
The idea of shooting down wayward planes sounds nice, and it may even work if the hijacking can be detected 15-20 minutes before anything bad happens, but it's not going to save you from a halfway clever attacker.
If you mod me Overrated, you are admitting that you have no penis.
Welcome to the glorious Union of Soviet Capitalist Republics!
Simply put.
Most people are incapable of thinking outside their own little world. They are selfish and self centered.
Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
Two weeks ago, leaving DFW for YYZ I spent 35 minutes in security. Sure, there were only 8 people in front, and the line didn't move forever because they kept kicking baggage and people back out to go through again.
Knowing I could save 5 seconds out of that 35 minutes really makes me want to spend $200 on a new laptop bag. Yes, one that I can't put much in as it needs to be zipper/pocket free on one side.
...or a breathalyser.
Rule of Slashdot #0: You and people like you are not representative of the larger population. - A.C.
I have a Canon brand backpack that I carry a DSLR and 8 lenses in.. one of which is a 300mm fixed length lens, it's metal and about 10-12" long.
I've flown with this bag as my carryon and taken it through security 40+ times. Once, on a month long trip, I accidentally left a large (4" blade) pocketknife IN THE BAG for 6 different legs of my trip. That's right. A lens that could conceal a small cannon (and looks like one on the x-ray), and a knife big enough to carve it, in my carryon.
Theatre. God help us if someone with ill intent actually does decide to purposely board a plane with a weapon.
Airport security is tighter than you think for the private carriers. You can't get into the area where the planes are without the standard full background check. Even simple couriers that bring packages to the airport have to go through this. In Seattle they call it the SIDA(Stop and Identify Area) If you don't have your badge or forget your badge, you don't work until you have it. They fine you for letting people pass behind you at gates and doors and fine you for getting caught without your badge and then there is the $500 fine to get your badge replaced if you lose it.
I'd high jack a FedEx or a UPS plane.
Only if you wanted to be there overnight.
If "disco" means "I learn" in Latin, does "discothèque" mean "I learn technology"?
What's the first thing you will see when you get to hell?
A TSA employee.
I went through Newark security during a layover and beeped at the metal detector.I found my pocket knife (2" long blade) and handed it over. They were saying some bullshit about how I could be arrested if I tried to do this on purpose and I repeated over and over that this was a layover and had been through security already that morning. They weren't concerned with the lack of security in Austin as they were with threatening me. When I realized this fact, I said 'thanks' and walked away leaving him talking to himself.
I have snuck knives and matches on planes with no problem and, even more importantly, without any fear of getting caught. I got caught with that knife because I didn't know I had it so wasn't trying to conceal it.
Fuck TSA.
Reminds me of when I flew from ORD to LAX about 60 days after 9/11.
After getting through security and checking out all the army guys with huge guns, I get to the ORD snack/food area for my terminal. I assume that before 9/11 they were handing out plastic utensils, because that's what they were handing out post-9/11...except for the plastic knives.
Yep, they had decided that plastic knives were a threat, but plastic forks or spoons were OK. All of which can be made into a stabby plastic weapon in a few seconds. Why were the knives singled out? Forks are probably more dangerous; their handle is certainly sturdier...
With the first link, the chain is forged.
I can't speak for FedEx, but UPS security procedures are MUCH more stringent then mandated by the TSA.
For identification purposes, the fact that your ID is expired should be irrelevant, regardless of how long it has been expired.
You don't become a different person just because your ID expired.
I'm not the guy you're responding to, but I have to say that me losing weight would have no effect on my airplane seating problem.
My ass fitting between the armrests is not the problem, and I don't have fat overflowing into the next seat... I am so broad that my arms go straight down to the armrests on both sides. Losing weight isn't going to make my shoulder width any smaller. I know I'm not alone, and I've had the displeasure of sitting three across with people who were just about my size. I had the aisle seat, and was leaning to my right the entire trip - not particularly comfortable.
But the sad fact is people wanted cheap, and they got cheap. In order to meet the financial demands of customers, they had to reduce space to increase seating capacity; I don't blame the airlines, I blame us. Same thing with WalMart... complain all you want, but if people continue to shop there, they will continue to take over and close out smaller businesses. People prefer cheapness over quality.
On my last Air-Tran flight, even though it was a business trip, I paid out of my own pocket to be upgraded. But then Air Tran has reasonable upgrades, whereas most airlines charge a ridiculous amount. Regardless, I actually DID put my money where my mouth was and paid more for a better seat.
Stupid sexy Flanders.
"I wish an independent 3rd party group could get together and see what they could get through security without being arrested for the experiment."
There used to be 'red team' testing of FAA security procedures - pretty much what you suggest, I think (it was largely government employees used, I think, but they were very capable). Ridgeway writes about what happened to this:
"Another 1993 report showed that in a test, people without authorization broke through the San Francisco airport security system three out of five times--a failure rate of 60 percent. By 1998, out of 450 attempts by the so-called Red Team to breach security at the same airport, 446 succeeded--a failure rate of 99.11 percent. Testers in 1996 at the Frankfurt airport, where the bomb was placed on Pan Am Flight 103, broke through security in 13 out of 13 tries. The situation was so embarrassing that the FAA security chief ordered the group to end its mission, leaving the job of improving security in the hands of the airlines."
So if I have hacked the Clear laptop so I can use the Clear channel and my laptop is in the proper bag, the plans for the nuclear bomb should be safe on their journey to North Korea then ...
Puteulanus fenestra mortis
Actually the choice is "save several thousand people in a skyscraper" and "save nobody". The people in the airplane can't be saved.
Taking down a large jet aircraft... say a 747, or even a 737, 727, etc., is EXTREMELY DIFFICULT.
1) You wouldn't know it was rogue until it was already WELL on the way to it's target (if you knew at all before it got there).
2) Even when you identified it, you would still need to actually CATCH it. Scrambling planes takes time, airfields aren't everywhere and, unlike BSG, I'm afraid we don't have an "Air Cap" to guard our sorry asses ($$$$$).
3) Now you have to shoot it down. You may not realize this, but a passenger jet is FREAKING HUGE. One missile isn't going to take out a jet with 2, 3, or 4 engines. You're going to have to really go to work on that bad boy... and now it's just an out of control ball of metal and fire... braaaavoooo.
Give whatever order you want, but until you can vaporize the stupid thing in mid-flight it's all a pipe dream. Me, I'm not big on confrontation and dying. If I wanted to send a message I'd just get an old stinger, head to an international third level airport (St. Louis, Cincinnati, etc), drive to the end of the runway, and blow the wing off a plane as it took off.
The point here is that the entire concept of airline security is a joke on an American public too pathetic to face the truth by a government too ready to cede to their fears. Freedom isn't free, it's expensive, and the cost is blood and tears. If you don't like it then call Kim Jong and ask how much condo's in downtown PyongYang are going for. You can be sure you won't have to worry about terrorists in North Korea.
-rt
When I take my eeepc through security I don't take it out and they never notice it
I, on the other hand, would welcome our new plane crashing overlord.
Given the increasingly annoying airport security and the rising costs of gasoline, could it be there is a government conspiracy to keep people from moving around the country?
To what end, I'm not sure...
fuck the people, if my order from amazon gets lost I'm going to be PISSED!
Not sure I see what's the big deal. You can still put your laptop on the conveyor belt like always, or you can now put it on the conveyor belt in a special bag. They are adding an option, not taking one away. AND its an OPTION for fuck's sake! Not mandatory.
So you people are bitching now because we have 2 options at the security line instead of one? How does that make any sense at all?
Let me guess: pointing out the stupidity of a slashdotter: -1 Troll.
But that's assuming you know what will happen, which you don't. All you know is that radio contact has been lost with a plane and it's veering off course. It could be some failure on board and the crew is trying to do find a suitable spot for an emergency landing.
Are you going to give the order to kill several hundred people? Do you still think it's such an easy decision? You know what they say about hindsight?
EagerEyes.org: Visualization and Visual Communication
I can't believe no one has posted this yet:
http://www.cnn.com/2007/TRAVEL/10/18/airport.screeners/index.html
A few months ago I flew to Kuala Lumpur and Chennai via Hong Kong. I went through security at all three of these airports and didn't have to take my laptop out of my bag at any of them. Plus Kuala Lumpur has had problems and security is very tight, plus the Chinese are very thorough in Hong Kong, so I don't think its a matter of lighter security at these airports (well Chennai might be a little light).
Just grab your shit and get on board. Period. No fuss. No muss. No toothpaste shampoo bullshit. No uniformed fuckers with attitudes. Polite train staff and a nice relaxing experience.
> When you hijack a plane with enough people on board, shooting the plane down can still give a huge image hit on the ones that did the shooting, even if it was the right thing to do.
Who cares ? The official story will be that "passenger took off the plane themselves".
but that's why the gov't "needs" to destroy the 4th ammendment and any pretext at a right to privacy... so they can know who the terrorist is before even the terrorist realizes it! :p
[/snark]
uggh!
"If still these truths be held to be
Self evident."
-Edna St. Vincent Millay
Except that being obese is usually a life-long project one has to work towards and adapt to as it happens.
Getting stuck to that obese person is not a choice most folks would want to make and is suddenly forced upon you unprepared.
The trouble with the rat race is that even if you win, you're still a rat." Lily Tomlin
The new laptop bags will start going on sale next week for $299.99 at all major retailers,... Markup will be 500%,... :-)
That plane that went down in Pennsylvania sure did crash for funny reasons, and there were F16s in the area.
The GAO used to regularly test check points and the results were made available to the media. I haven't seen a news story in awhile though.
Are you sure you know what is in those packages on that FedEx or UPS plane? They could be highly valuable and/or highly dangerous, or they could have brought on board a valuable political hostage snatched earlier.
To beat the Jack Bauers in the world you need contingencies on top of contingencies nigh ad infinitum.
Assuming "flying into a built-up area" is the hijackers plan (which is almost certainly what the authorities would assume), any packages won't be highly valuable after they've been flown into a building. And they're probably no more dangerous in that scenario than in the shot-down scenario.
I can't speak for FedEx, but UPS security procedures are MUCH more stringent then mandated by the TSA.
FedEx is very strict with their guidelines for package contents. They pull out the rulebook for anything, especially International, and turn you away if they think it's hazardous or fails customs guidelines.
The U.S.P.S. on the other hand will take anything you give them, no questions about the contents (I guess they assume you aren't shipping chemicals or that the scanners will catch everything), and ship it off as long as it's not too large (I forget the sizing criteria).
I ran into this when trying to ship gifts for X-Mas over to my wife's family in Russia. Fedex-"Can't send because Russia isn't allowing toys from America because they are probably from China." USPS-"Fill out this form and give us ~$75."
Ok, your spouse/child/relative is on the plane. What now?
How are sites slashdotted when nobody reads TFAs?
I think the whole notion that terrorists will even try to hijack a plane again is absurd.
Agreed. But which politician in their right mind, when asked "What are you going to do to prevent a repeat of 9/11?" is going to answer with "Nothing"?
He got away with shooting a lawyer in the face. Woosh yourself.
echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
I just can't wait for my "TSA APPROVED" laptop bag to hit Office Depot. And people wonder why I don't fly.
"I bow to no man" - Riddick
but what if all the boxes in the UPS plane were filled with puppies? Hijacking the puppy plane might be the ace in the hole
Yeah, I've got nothing...
The security for FedEx planes is a lot tighter than that of passenger jets (without a electronic encoded access badge, you don't get past the lobby.) And packages are screened before they get anywhere near the planes.
Been there, Done that, Sold the t-shirt to the next idiot in line
People who don't realize that Wal-Mart's half-price socks wear out four times faster prefer cheapness over quality, and they end up spending more in the long run. Not everyone is that foolish. Most, but not all.
How are sites slashdotted when nobody reads TFAs?
I agree with your sentiments and I recently discovered a security flaw and I fear that if it is ever known that the type of counter measures that would be required would make the current silliness pale in comparison.
What's your big discovery, einstein? I'll bet it's been discovered and posted a dozen times over on the TSA blog... Seriously, it's harder to find aspects of airport security that AREN'T flawed than it is to poke holes in this huge boondoggle that is The Security(Theatre) Administration.
A host is a host from coast to coast...
Unless it's down, or slow, or fails to POST!
Why the hell would you fly that over? We have this thing called the Internet, and this protocol called SFTP. You may want to look into them.
How are sites slashdotted when nobody reads TFAs?
or flower, icing sugar, coal dust etc
Maybe the TSA should pay more attention to more creative explosives.
How about "your mothers ashes" that turn out to be thermite in an urn.
There seems to be 3 broad ways to beat airport security.. 1) be on the inside (in numbers) 2) find a point of entry that is weak (low paid busy TSA staff) 3) be creative
In conversation with others the topic of "I beat airport security by..." sometimes comes up.... maybe we should ope source it and create beatsecuritywiki.org just to collect these more creative ideas for them to be identified and protected against.
You're absolutely right. And i also try to minimize the inconvenience i cause other people because of my lazyness.
But there aren't many alternatives to trans-atlantic flights. And first class seats are way out of reach of my spending abilities.
but Cheney would probably get away with it
Naw, Cheney wouldn't hijack Air Force One. Not his style. He'd shoot the White House in the face and make it apologize to him afterwards ;)
I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
This airport security BS doesn't protect us from anything. There are so many other ways we are vulnerable.
-Want to take down a plane?
Just go to the airport parking lot or anywhere along the flight path and shoot with appropriate caliber weapon.
-Want to kidnap/hurt large group of people?
Go to a movie theatre, school, church, music, sport event, office building, rush hour freeway intersection.
There is no security from random acts of violence. The only security is counter intelligence where you know what your enemy will do do before they do it. And you don't get counterintelligence by spying on everybody and everything. You get it by hiring people who bear resemblance to your enemy.
I've flown out of Heathrow a couple of times this year already, and the new rules there seem to be to tell you to keep your laptop in your bag.
I think the logic behind this is that the time wasted by the occasional need to rescan because a laptop is in the wrong position is less than the amount of time it wastes getting people to take their laptops out of their bags (or, in the case of the new TSA rules, explaining to people whether their bag is approved or not).
Seems to be a pretty sensible rule, unusually sensible for airport security in these paranoid times.
Jolyon
Please read my Canon EOS tech blog at http://www.everyothershot.com
TSA security is a joke. There is no uniform standard as to what is acceptable or not. What passes through security in one airport gets confiscated in another because the agent is constipated and in a pissy mood. Why the fuck can I travel one way with no issues and then on the return trip have all my toiletries confiscated? What the hell am I going to do with a tube of hair gel? Leave a sticky mess on the bathroom faucet handle?
Precisely. So they 'pretend' to be doing something to stop the bastards from getting on the plane in the first place.
Huh?
TSA has been accepting 'approved' luggage bags for a while (as well as approved luggage locks). The new laptop bags only allow people to travel with their laptop without taking everything out of the bag, before putting it on the scanner. I fail to see how this would be an inconvenience or greater security flaw. It all gets scanned either way.
Also, as far as airport security and getting through the scanners without being arrested. This has already been done and is, no doubt, being done repeatedly. Independent security researchers test and/or assess physical security of most places they go. Think of Johnny Long, a no-tech ninja who has written and spoke of numerous security shortcomings of Airport (in)Security and the like.
Sorry, but I fail to see why there is an outrage over a new convenience option. How does speeding up checking times fall in the range of annoying to soviet!?
you have too much faith in the public. remember that dude who got his head cut off on a greyhound bus? everyone just sat there screaming, and then ran off the bus while this poor kid was being stabbed to death. and we called them brave for locking him in the bus so he could decapitate the body. no, if another airliner is hijacked, the exact same thing will happen. people are scared and have way too much faith in their government to jump in and save the day.
Which could easily be shot down.
Yeah, if you knew it had been hijacked. Didn't we discover the hijackings on 9/11 because the passengers alerted authorities on the ground?
Reagan National Airport is under 7 kilometers (as the crow flies) from the White House and Capitol. That works out to just about two minutes of flying time at landing speed (approx 200km/h for a 747). Do you really think our esteemed Government could react that fast if the hijacking was successfully kept a secret up until the plane was actually scheduled to land? The same Government that couldn't even manage to locate (let alone shoot-down) Flight 93 before it crashed or defend the headquarters of our entire military from attack on that fateful day?
You have much more faith in the Government than I do.
I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
For those who are curious as to what these new bags look like or what makes them different, Targus has one posted on their website here, along with pictures.
Basically, the whole carrying case just splits in half right down the middle while staying hinged at the bottom, allowing for the laptop to be x-rayed without interference from the other materials in your bag.
I feel safe now, don't you?
One little problem with that plan - actually getting on the plane.
Private flights are deeply concerned about security and do take great measures to ensure their flights are secure. They don't just park their jets in the Burger King parking lot with all the doors unlocked. Most private planes are kept sealed until they are ready for flight or go in for service. Whenever they are unsealed, they are usually under someones watchful eye making it very difficult to just sneak on. Not saying it's not possible, just that it's not as easy as you make it sound. Honestly, it would probably be easier just to stick with the commercial airline route and deal with the passengers.
All you know is that radio contact has been lost with a plane and it's veering off course. It could be some failure on board and the crew is trying to do find a suitable spot for an emergency landing.
And in that case the military would intercept the plane and attempt to establish visual communication with the pilots on board and signal them to land. If they don't respond to these attempts then you have a pretty good idea of what their intent is. They wouldn't just shoot down a blip on the radar screen.
Are you going to give the order to kill several hundred people? Do you still think it's such an easy decision? You know what they say about hindsight?
You think that's tough? Imagine having to order a nuclear strike on another country to retaliate for/prevent a strike on your own? Knowing full well that millions of people will die even the strike is limited to military targets.
Bottom line: If you aren't prepared to make those types of decisions you have no business running for President of the United States.
I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
No idea if anyone has mentioned this, but what with all the "print at home" boarding passes and such, there is nothing to stop someone from changing a name on a print at home ticket, and thus, ANYONE can get through security, rendered 'blacklists' and such obsolete. Coupled with the fact that IDs are never checked at the gate anymore, persons flying could further be disguised by switching tickets with someone beyond the security checkpoint.
You can't get into the area where the planes are without the standard full background check
Yeah, unless you happen to know somebody. I've been out on the tarmac with the planes (passenger and private carrier) without going through security at our regional airport. I used to know one of the Operations Managers up there and got a few behind the scenes tours. All in the post 9/11 world. Walked right past the TSA guys too and was never stopped or waved through the metal detector.
I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
U can flaimebait/troll this comment.
I think this is now getting utterly stupid.
my message to the TSA. Make it simple with a new blanket policy. don't allow anything onboard.
I would! A Bush corpse in the White House would have done the one good thing the living Bush did (not renewing the Assault Weapon(sic) Ban), and none of the bad stuff (everything else).
Stricter measures?? The TSA people seem, to be generous, none too bright - I think they're already working at peak efficiency. Sadly, despite all of their misplaced, dehumanizing effort, they still don't seem able to do the job. I flew to Montana last summer, and TSA did a great job of confiscating my shampoo and shaving creme. However, when I arrived, I found that I'd accidentally left two knives in my carry on baggage, which were not detected. For fun, I left them in on my flight back home. TSA found the knife with a 2-1/2 inch blade at the gate, and chastised me most harshly (and confiscated it). They did not find the knife with a 6 inch blade, however. As far as I'm concerned, they are more "The TSA Show" than real security, placed there to demonstrate the gov't's commitment to security, rather than provide it.
Steve O.
I am really, really exhausted.
Anyone has has been on a bus AND a plane will have to admit there is a difference between the types of people who use those two methods of transportation. I can drive by the bus depot in town and tell you that. That issue aside, though, sure there is always a chance people will sit idly by. I think the two circumstances are different though. On the bus, the threat was against the one person being stabbed. The "logic" is that if I don't screw with that guy holding the knife, he won't screw with me. If someone hijacks your plane, somewhere in the back of your mind you know you'll die along with everyone else on that plane if someone doesn't do something.
So you agree with me , but you want me to reveal the information which makes matters worse. I would call you Newton, but it seems your name is BoB. I agree with your assessment of the situation and perhaps it is something they already know. It isn't my job to know that. I am too lazy to look and if I Google for it, they would have the Jeopardy answer. It only serves a terrorist or further incites the TSA to show them holes and that was the premise of the parent and I was simply agreeing and accepting the constraints that I shouldn't just dump security flaws on the net anymore than security flaws in any other system just to prove my talent.
Do the same thing as a responsible doctor would if it's their relative brought into the emergency room.
I'd excuse myself as being biased and let the vice handle it.
Then commit unholy terrors on the perpetrators.
I don't read AC A human right
Prior to 9/11 you could not take a knife on board an airplane that had a blade that was longer than three inches.
Then, for a while, NO knives were allowed.
NOW, you can take a knife that has a blade that is shorter than FOUR inches!
Does this make ANY sense?!
The 9/11 hijackers used retractable-blade box-cutters whose breakaway blades could be considered as being under TWO inches long under current TSA regulations!
I'm calling SHENNANIGANS!! Everyone go home and get your brooms (subtle South Park reference for those not in the loop)!
There's a big difference.
If you are on a plane that has been hijacked and you have reason to believe it is going to be crashed into a building, your choices are overpower the terrorists or die.
If you are on a bus with a madman stabbing the passenger next to him, there is still a good chance you can escape with your life without having to confront the killer.
All I want is a secure system where it's easy to do anything I want. Is that too much to ask ~~ Randall Munroe
They really need to have their xray machines serviced. I don't think they are getting full strength xrays if they can't see through fabric or leather bags.
/sarcasm
> Woosh yourself.
Vote for him in the next election then, if you like him so much...
-fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
Not wanting to go too far off topic, but that about sums up what I figured out a few years ago... when you actually compare apples to apples, WalMart isn't a whole lot cheaper than other discount stores, if it's cheaper at all.
I used to wear those white Rebocks all the time, each pair would last me about a year, more or less, and cost $35 to $40. Then I bought a pair at Sam's Club for $25 and they only lasted for between 4 and 5 months. My $80 Sam's club HP printer was a piece of crap, too. So I started doing some research and discovered how often Sam's/Walmart sells "like" items that have slightly different product codes, so even when it LOOKS like you're buying the same thing, there's a good chance you're buying one with cheaper components and often lesser warranties.
When you find the exact same product, WalMart is often only cheaper by pennies.
Stupid sexy Flanders.
"Don't you feel safer? I wish an independent 3rd party group could get together and see what they could get through security without being arrested for the experiment. So little of what the TSA is doing is any more than illusion."
That would be interesting. So why don't you do it? Yeah, me neither. You'd probably succeed in getting lots of stuff through, but if you got caught... I'm sorry but I'll be laughing when they send you up the river for 10 years. "But your honor, I was doing a story for my blog on the inadequacies of the TSA..." Yes, what the TSA is chartered to do is restore the illusion that travel is safe. That was an illusion that we had before 9/11, and it's always been an illusion. But like a placebo, it worked to some degree, And restoring it is probably the best that can be achieved.
Coming soon: the Targus Burlap Sack 2000.
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
16 Oz. of fluids & gasoline soaked clothing. No, their fancy little sniffers don't detect gasoline. I mistakenly put my face shield cleaner in my carry-on bag when I was going to a race (16 OZ of fluid) and I have spilled a good deal of gasoline on my firesuit (I fuel a stock car on the weekends for a hobby). The point is that airline security is a farce, what they try and do doesn't work, and there is no need anymore since any attempted hijackers will be killed by the passengers or the plane will crash when the nearly dead hijackers blow it up. THERE WILL NEVER BE A PASSENGER AIRPLANE USED AS A WEAPON AGAIN! So, once again, our government is wasting our money fighting last century's war.
I can tell you you're wrong.
The TSA security check point is tested by 3rd parties, the information just isn't public.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
When I take an important political hostage, I don't ship him via FedEx or UPS. I send him USPS book rate to save money.
The Internet is generally stupid
This is insightful, even if it is "tongue in cheek". We're all terrorists, now, and the government has a right to know!
While I agree on many of the points you make, you are wrong about the ease of shooting down airliners. Look at KAL 007. The fuel carried by an airliner alone would make for a BIG explosion. Even if the fuel did not explode, do you know what rapid decompression of the pressurized cabin would do? There are some cases where an airliner survived rapid decompression of the cabin but this is relatively uncommon.
For me that decision is easy. My wife's life is insured for a considerable amount of money.
The Internet is generally stupid
I was discussing something along these lines with some co-workers shortly after 9/11. We wondered whether or not if some sucide bombers (like in Israel) were to surface and take out some public venues. What would happen? I'm certain we would be royally screwed. There would be martial law declared.
Do not read this
Of course good luck trying to convince the agent at the checkpoint that your 4 inch metal scissors or seven inch screwdriver are on their approved list. I never quite get used to it how insane, incompetent and contradictory the TSA is.
I can say from personal experience that, at least a year ago, it was still quite easy to get through a US airport and get aboard an airplane while in the possession of a Swiss Army knife.
Yawn.
I mean this in the nicest way possible... Please put up or shut up. You think the TSA/NSA/CIA/UnnamedTripleBlack reads /.? Maybe they do.
My point stands, however. There are a gazillion flaws in TSA's supposed security, and the fact is that they don't care. They KNOW that they're not really providing security. They don't care. Their job is to provide the appearance of security, because that's what Congress wants them to do.
Congress controls the purse strings, which means that if they make Congress look good, they get more money for more layers of bureaucracy, and the folks with interests in outside security companies get money for more high-tech security chicanery. And of course, if Congress looks good to the sheeple who elect them, they get to stay in office and avoid getting real jobs.
Do you really think that you've come up with something in your daydreaming that the "turr'ists" haven't? Anyone who really wanted to get around security could. The reason we haven't had another 9/11 isn't because of the TSA...
It's because it's difficult to herd cats, especially when you've got the entire intelligence apparatus of the US Gov't looking for the herds of cats who might try to blow something up. The 9/11 hijackers would be trivially easy to find now, in this age of PATRIOT and US-VISIT and substantially increased NSA/CIA budgets.
A host is a host from coast to coast...
Unless it's down, or slow, or fails to POST!
Yeah, except the whole thing happened in like 20 minutes. Not enough time for that kine of verification. Actually, barely enough time to realize that they'd lost comms and the plane was veering off it's flight path. Also, it is intriguing to note that huge airplanes hit by missiles do not simply disintegrate into vapor. Shooting down a 747 over New York might very well have caused just as much or even more damage then letting it hit the building did. Difficult to say of course, but large chunks of 747 raining down on the city would definitely have put a damper on someone's day.
I don't need a million points of light, just two points of multi-mode fiber and a 10 Gig-E router.
"...no metal snaps, zippers or buckles and no pockets" so... it's a binder? I hope they don't start applying the same policy to pants.
Bow before me, for I am root.
He got away with shooting a lawyer in the face.
Stop defending him!
"... stinger missile will take a wing off..."
And then you have a very large wing and the rest of the 747 moving through the air... and which is going to come to rest... somewhere. Blow it apart with multiple missiles, and you now have a lot of very large, heavy, falling parts. If its target is in a city (like the White House), shooting it down anywhere near its target could actually make things much worse.
Any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.
I have the same problem with the shoulder width. Fly Southwest, if you can, their seats are slightly wider.
Flying has gone from a pleasure to something I dread for this reason. I've been having horrible luck with that recently. The past three trips I've been next to an overweight person, to the point of getting scrunched into the wall. I'm not saying I need space enough for laptop use, but it's just ridiculous when I don't even have the space to reach under the seat to grab a paperback. There's really nobody to blame, but it really is annoying.
Everything will be taken away from you.
Actually, the choice is "save nobody".
If you shoot the plane down, you will foever be plagued by the families who will camp outside your ranch telling the world that nobody ever intended to fly the plan into the building in the first place. You don't get credit for saving those people.
Shooting down a 747 over New York might very well have caused just as much or even more damage then letting it hit the building did. Difficult to say of course, but large chunks of 747 raining down on the city would definitely have put a damper on someone's day.
Eh, I don't think it would cause "as much or even more" damage if you shot it down. Part of the reason that the strikes on the twin towers were so effective was because of the high speed of the aircraft. Speed == kinetic energy.
Pieces of a shot down aircraft would be coming down at their respective terminal velocities which would be much less than the speed of the aircraft that hit the towers. They'd also have a lot less mass than an intact airplane. Less mass combined with less speed == a lot less energy == a lot less damage on the ground. You might have some injuries/deaths on the ground (people on the ground died after Pam Am 103) but it wouldn't be thousands of deaths.
I'll grant you the point on the lack of time though. It's pretty tough to respond that quickly. In the event that they were able to respond though (or that ground-based defenses could locate and engage the hijacked jet) I would think that shooting it down would be a no brainer.
I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
"... then ran off the bus..."
Bit harder to run off an airplane in flight, wouldn't you say?
Any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.
So little of what the TSA is doing is any more than illusion.
How else do you propose they fit in with the DHS?
"... but when did the lives of people who travel by plane become so important that it is necessary to spend millions to protect a few..."
Which part about the planes themselves being used as weapons to kill thousands of people and take down a billon dollars worth of buildings did you miss?
Find the right nuclear plant, chemical plant, or, say, an LNG facility, situated near a major city, and you could potentially kill millions, not just "a few".
Any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.
... when they had to "test" my clipboard (one of the old-motherboard turned into a clipboard) for bomb chemicals. I'm sitting there going, "what next, you're going to declare it a laptop and tell me to turn it on?"
But then I read the rules and follow them where applicable. "No liquids allowed" -- fine. I take an empty water bottle with me, walk though security with it (they don't even ask), go 10 feet and fill it from a water fountain. All my clothes get packed in 2gal plastic bags -- helps me cram more in the suitcase anyway, so I can go with 2 "carry-ons" and avoid the (new) checked baggage fees.
I hope my next trip isn't trouble though, with a SSD laptop.
Slashdot Patriotism: We Support our Dupes!
> If I were president.....
> given the choice between saving several thousand people in a skyscraper,
> and saving a hundred-or-so in an airplane,
Politicians don't think like us. For example, what if they see it as a choice between killing a planeload of people and not getting re-elected, or gaining unprecedented political power after the terrorists kill several thousand people in a skyscaper?
c.
Log in or piss off.
well personnally, back in 2003, I forgot a knife in my carry-on baggage, and went through security in france, US and mexico and wasn't being told anything.
And that's was a pretty big one similar to this one:
http://www.bobticeknives.com/5-5-opinel.jpg
I'm not involved with Life Insurance, so I can't say this with too much certainty, but I know in Auto & Home insurance you don't get reimbursed for losses caused by governmental actions.
Boycott's are one of the few legitimate (and occasionally successful) tools of protest available to the individual. "Vote with your wallet" as I've been told. Although the dollar is getting lighter every year, it still carries more weight than any other paper ballet I'm aware of.
It went beyond the scale of just an individual obviously, but to demonstrate how effective they can be boycotts were one of the primary tools used in our our Revolution.
Nah, the terrorists are done, currently they are sitting at home trying to figure out how to keep up with the amount of terror the US government is putting into its citizens.
There's really nobody to blame, but it really is annoying.
Yes, there is.
1. The fat-ass who decided he'd rather make everyone else miserable than spend a bit more on getting the two (or more) seats he needs.
2. The airline that allows the fat-ass to buy just one seat when there's no way he'll fit in it.
The problem is that America just accepts fatties without any restrictions. The whole "obesity epidemic" is caused because no one cares about being fat anymore. There's not enough of a social stigma any more.
Sadly I think #2 is no longer allowed because the Americans with Disabilities Act classifies obesity as a "disability". And, yes, I know that's true for a small minority of cases. But the rest are just fat because fattie would rather spend $140/month on Big Macs than a gym membership.
You CAN blame fat people for allowing themselves to get fat. Don't feel bad about it. It's their choice to do nothing about it, and they SHOULD face the consequences. It's not there's any big secret to losing weight: EAT LESS.
Just want to note: in Canada, they tell you to leave your laptop in the bag now in most larger airports. It doesn't matter if you buy a special bag or not. I'm fairly sure this was also the case in London Heathrow, but I can't remember for certain (they did make us take off our shoes, which was fun).
Fine. If you'll excuse me, I have to busy myself attaching zippers and pockets directly to my laptops.
Don't you feel safer? I wish an independent 3rd-party group could get together and see what they could get through security without being arrested for the experiment. So little of what the TSA is doing is any more than illusion.
I've taken a box cutter with me on every single flight I've taken since about 2003.
It's my little passive-aggressive "fuck you" to the TSA.
It's never been spotted. They've opened my bag to check liquids and stared right past. I also tried a swiss army knife once (which I used to carry with me before 9/11), but they found that. The ban on small everyday blades is absolutely stupid. Even my high school allowed swiss knives.
Reagan National Airport is under 7 kilometers (as the crow flies) from the White House and Capitol. That works out to just about two minutes of flying time at landing speed (approx 200km/h for a 747). Do you really think our esteemed Government could react that fast if the hijacking was successfully kept a secret up until the plane was actually scheduled to land?
There are now specific areas around DC which are manned by ground-to-air missile batteries during "high risk" periods, in position that I think they could shoot down a plane flying over the Potomac towards the Capitol, but it would end up crashing on innocent people in Foggy Bottom office buildings or the State Department. I'll leave it to the readers discretion to determine the relative worth of "innocent people", "State Department workers", and "Members of Congress".
SO .. in a recent trip to a caribian island this past week I managed to carry the following through TSA and onto a plane :
10 Cuban Cigars
1 Torch Lighter
1 'regular' lighter
1 cigar cutter
My bag was opened and searched. my cigar case (which contained everything) was opened, the lighters were examined (but not lit .. the torch was a zippo with a torch insert ..) and then re-closed.
On the trip BACK from the same caribian island, I managed to bring four of the above cigars and the normal lighter into the plane and through customs. [The torch lighter was either lost or stolen on our trip]
On previous trips, we have brought both cigars, and bottles of absinthe back with us, occasionally being searched.
Personally, I'm grateful that the TSA is so fixated on electronic equipment now, as it lets me :P
support my exotic cigar habit
--Ne auderis delere orbem rigidum meum, non erravi pernicose!
Dude, the joke was that if he'd plowed the plain into a building that he'd be dead. And it's hard to vote for a dead guy whether you want to or not (John Ashcroft's 2000 election loss notwithstanding). So, fishbowl was perfectly justified in stating "whoosh". I'm gonna add a "well, duh" since you still didn't get it.
I didn't RFTA, but doesn't sound like you can't just carry your laptop in a reused cheap plastic grocery bag to security and then once you are past security slip it in to a Targus/Timbuk2/Crumpler/Chrome/whatever laptop bag with zippers, pockets and everything else.
So you mean to say that it is all about the lobbyists who try to make a lawyer necessary even when you go to the bathroom?
In any case, there are way too many people having a direct financial advantage from all those stupid regulations.
The TSA/DHS "experts" first and foremost. Well, I guess being a PITA beats having to live under the bridge.
Hey, they're out of just about everyone's reach.
The trouble with the rat race is that even if you win, you're still a rat." Lily Tomlin
Some people do, honestly have a medical condition, but they're in the minority. I know I've put on 20lb in the last 5 years and I feel wretched and know I'd be better off without it and yet, here I am.
I imagine it's worse for folks without great jobs or 2 income families "forced" to eat cheap junk food instead of the healthy organic meat and vegetables I can enjoy.
The trouble with the rat race is that even if you win, you're still a rat." Lily Tomlin
Just take the laptop out ahead of getting in line. I have a Targus backpack, but for my 17" laptop (Gateway). Just attach a lanyard to the bag and laptop to prevent separation on the conveyor.
If you need to, attach a proximity alarm to it and to your wrist to keep the the laptop from getting separated. If they make you remove the alarm from your wrist, tell them they better put distance between you, the pax ahead, and those behind you long enough for you to retrieve your items. That way, the alarm doesn't sound if you're separated by 6+ feet. Surely, they can comply with this.
Lots of people here are mis-reading the goddamn-misleading story line. It's abusive, sensationalistic, mis-written, and Slashdot should reign in these tags. As should newspapers, when it comes to security-related stories affecting people's wallets.
If Targus PAID to have the tags displayed that way, and if they influenced the TSA to word the regulations confusingly, then THEY TOO should be bitch-slapped for this. Besides, with one-piece carry-on for "free", these days of high fuel pricing means that if your other stuff is checked, and you carry your laptop, then put it in a Mac-like sleeve with Velcro flapping and remove it from the laptop backpack. Hell, put in a rubber cord (not one that can hang or restrain people, but just strong enough to keep your stuff in sight of both YOU and the screeners...) and lash your stuff together for the screening.
This damned tag gives readers the angering impression that they MUST go and buy a new bag. The case/bag is good for reducing damage to your laptop, but if yours is rugged or already scratched like hell, you don't need to care too much as long as it's NOT DROPPED or dropped upon by sharp & heavy carry-on items.
Jeez.
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
...or I could just take 5 seconds to take my laptop out of my bag?
I'm in email security, and I have a little sympathy for the TSA and believe that the level of criticism they are receiving WRT what they screen is at least somewhat unwarranted.
Is much of what they are doing fighting yesterday's battle? Sure it is. So is much of what we do in anti-spam/anti-virus. The trouble is that if we didn't close yesterday's holes and keep checking for those techniques, even if they are not so commonly used or attempted anymore, the attackers *would* keep using them.
Example from email security: using fixed netblocks to send spam doesn't work nearly as well as it used to, because they quickly wind up on the major public RBLs as well as the private ones maintained by anti-spam vendors. However, if we stopped the practice of RBLing those netblocks known to belong to spammers, we would quickly see a shift back to using them because it would make the current most popular technique (botnets) more trouble than just getting a netblock at some spam-friendly provider.
Another example from email security: anti-botnet efforts have been effective enough that some spammers, particularly phishers have for some months been targeting .edu (and some ISP) accounts for phishing, primarily for the purpose of obtaining those account credentials and using them to send spam through legit, real accounts using mail servers with good reputations. But if we stopped working so hard to counter botnets and counter abuse of free email services, they probably wouldn't bother with this attack vector because, again, it would be more trouble than using a botnet.
Examples from TSA practices: if they didn't check electronics for explosives, terrorists would certainly try getting explosives onto planes. They might still succeed if they tried, at least sometimes, but the odds of being caught are high enough that they are less likely to try that approach. If they didn't check shoes, someone else would try the Richard Reid approach. If box cutters and small knives were allowed, someone might try that one again (although after 9/11, I suspect trying to hijack a plane with a box cutter would just end with the would-be hijacker having the box cutter shoved up his ass by angry passengers). Etc.
That is, it's about raising the bar of success/lowering the odds of being able to use any given attack vector and successfully got on a plane and carry out the attack. Is much of what TSA has done so far consisted of picking the low-hanging fruit? Yes, I think it's fair to say that. Email security companies pick low-hanging fruit, too. Most spam is ridiculously easy to block. However, that doesn't mean the low-hanging fruit shouldn't be picked. If we didn't block the easy attack vectors, they'd keep using them. Spammers and terrorists are both no more ambitious than they have to be; if easy achieves they're goals, they aren't going to bother with hard.
Could TSA improve? Sure. Some of their procedures - liquids, for example - are aimed at techniques that (at least, based on what some experts have said) would be pretty hard to carry out, even with all the necessary components on board. I think the blanket ban on liquids not in tiny containers is aimed at keeping the lines moving. If they tried to actually inspect them all, the lines would crawl. It's not a great solution and I think in the longer term they could find some technology to speed that up, but I appreciate the problem they face: speed matters in message filtering, too, and we're always looking for ways to improve both performance and efficacy, while reducing false positives. It's not easy. Are we in the email security better at it than TSA? Sure, but we also have at least one tool available to us that they don't: profiling. Email security companies look at where a message is coming from and what reputation that source has in deciding whether to accept it, and, having accepted it, how to classify it thereafter.
If TSA were to even suggest profiling based on national origin or appearance, people would be all over them. Whether it
Or he could just get a ceramic knife that doesn't have metal in it.
Or he could just swipe some fluorescent tube lights from the bathroom in the terminal after going through security and break them to make a pretty menacing and lethal weapon.
The masses are the crack whores of religion.
I showed your post to my brother-in-law who trains TSA personnel on how to use the x-ray stuff. He says you have to be lying about the knife, and that operators are trained in recognizing photography equipment such as telephoto lenses like yours. What's worse, theatre or hyperbole?
No, the reaction to a hijacking should always be the same:
Give the passengers 5 minutes to regain control of the airplane.
If they do not regain control, shoot it down.
We do not negotiate with terrorists. To allow them to succeed even partly just encourages more of them.
Given this official policy, the following would happen:
1: Passengers will immediately and overwhelmingly act to subdue the terrorists. (Already a given since 9/11, but reinforced)
2: Terrorists will be less motivated to take over a plane full of very motivated defenders.
3: Terrorists will not have the time to make demands.
4: Terrorists will not be able to use the airplane for any purpose other than immediately crashing it. (If they wanted to do that just smuggle in a Stinger, at least then they'd have a chance at getting away with it.)
All that's missing is the official policy statement, and a method to communicate directly with the passengers that their plane has been hijacked. Shooting a few tracers across the wing in front of the passenger windows would do the trick.
They ARE out to get you simply because They are in it for themselves and they don't care about you.
Bingo. The best thing they could do is give us back our pocketknives.
I was taught to respect my elders. The trouble is, it's getting harder and harder to find some.
From what I've seen the USPS has restrictions about what they will mail. For example, good luck mailing a bottle of wine or other liquor.
We hope your rules and wisdom choke you / Now we are one in everlasting peace
Just a couple months ago I was traveling cross country. I had returned home and couldn't find my Leatherman tool in my luggage. A week later I found my Leatherman- in my laptop bag, my carry-on... they didn't see it when it was in the whiz bang x-ray machine?
What's worse, theatre or hyperbole?
How about disbelieving evidence when it contradicts your world view?
I was taught to respect my elders. The trouble is, it's getting harder and harder to find some.
I'm not a terrorist, honestly, but if I was, why would I try to blow up a plane. It seems to me that all of this security theater is doing nothing but creating long lines with lots of people in a very small space. Just imagine the hit our infrastructure would take if a loosely coordinated group decided to blow up the security line at a few major U.S. airports. Obviously, you can strap anything you want to yourself before you get to the security check point, and with the current congestion they could take out thousands and effectively shut down all U.S air traffic for weeks.
Point being, there are a lot more ways for a terrorist to do damage than by hijacking a plane. Maybe if we started to fight some of the underlying causes of terrorism, like the government led murder of thousands of their innocent countrymen, we could start to feel safer about not getting blown up in general.
I am Jack's complete lack of surprise.
Like I said, it's difficult to say, if three large pieces of the plane crashed through three different buildings, quite a few people might have been killed. Especially if they were well populated buildings. Remember, this is New York City. Apartment buildings hold thousands of people in a very small geographic space. You're right that the velocity was critical to doing the amount of damage done, but the Towers were also VERY well built. I'm not saying it would have been worse, you're probably right that it wouldn't have, but it's certainly possible. Given the choice, I'd probably take the shot too, given the ability to do so, but once the things were over NYC any choice could have had horrible consequences.
I don't need a million points of light, just two points of multi-mode fiber and a 10 Gig-E router.
...it's the other people. I've been flying rather regularly the last years and I got the routine down to a pat. My laptop goes on top of the bag, in the line I put all the junk in my pockets in my jacket and remove my belt so I got it in my hand. So when I'm at the checkpoint, I put the suitcase on, take out the laptop, put my jacket, belt and shoes (you don't have to take them off here but mine have metal that beep) and head on through. Then slip the laptop back on top of my bag, put on belt, shoes and jacket. The whole operation takes me just a few seconds and getting everything out of my jacket I can do at the next queue, usually waiting for the plane to board.
Whatever goes on the conveyor belt I've never or extremely rarely been stopped for. The downtime is due to the people that inevitably seem to take 2-5 minutes each to get their act together and get everything on the belt, beep so they have to pass through again or be manually scanned. Or they still haven't figured out the limitation on liquids and that airport security just got told the rules, don't bother arguing with them. Some of you are IT admins - would you let people have access in direct violation of company security policy on the spot because they're sweet talkers? Didn't think so. Even when I have all my electronics like laptop, external disk, video camera, wii and accessories and whatnot on the belt it'll pass through. To be honest, I'd like my own line - not with less security controls but a frequent flyer line - it'd take so much less time.
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
I travel with a CPAP, and Every &*(&*()*()& time, the take it, wipe it down, test the wipe, and give it back...
And if you try to check the sucker, the Airline says we're not liable if it gets broken, lost, etc.
Sure my congress people are getting tired of my communication that I don't like being harassed for carrying a medical device, when I carry devices that well can be better put to use for activities.
As a smoker, I'm always trying to come up with fun ways to get lighters through.
In theory, cigarette lighters are a big no-no and I've had my lighter confiscated at the security line. This is frustrating because I like to duck out and grab a cigarette while I wait for the baggage to show up, so I need it in the carry-on. And it's not like the airports sell lighters or matches anymore, so I could just pick one up at the airport.
One thing that I've found works pretty well is hide one lighter and leave one obvious one. They'll key in on the obvious one and create a scene to let me and everyone around me know that lighters cannot be carried on airplanes. I'll apologize profusely and they'll send me on my merry way, secure in the knowledge that they have prevented a major terrorist incident. Meanwhile, when I get to my destination, I just dig out the hidden lighter and go from there.
If you preemptively destroyed all skyscrapers in the area, you would give the passengers enough time to take back the aircraft.
Hi Jack!
My world view is not defined by the fact my in-law just happens to be a trainer on how to spot a knife with x-ray machines. My world view is equally not swayed by an obvious exaggeration made by random slashdot fanatic either.
> Why exactly are we not allowed to carry screwdrivers etc on board and then (I did this last week at DTW, Detroit) you receive a sharp metal knife and fork in the restaurant after security?
Because it's all about the ILLUSION of security, not actual security. See Ibsen's concept of a "life-lie" - it might not be true, but if it makes people happy... Religion might serve a similar purpose.
nowadays the president probably wouldn't have to make that decision. the people on the plane far outnumber the terrorists and would likely mob-rush them to prevent another sep 11 ... which is exactly why terrorists won't do that shit again and all these draconian measures are pointless.
-- Sex is the antonym of pringles. Once you pop it's time to stop.
The people in the airplane can't be saved.
If the plane is going to hit the building at the right downward angle, and in such a direction that right behind the building is a runway, or, more practically, a wide street that has been emptied, you could theoretically blow up the building right before the plane hits it (but before the plane is too close). The plane would then dramatically fly through the falling rubble of the building, then slide to a stop on the road/runway without damaging the passenger area. Once it's stopped, SWAT teams could immediately board the plane and apprehend the hijackers.
As a variation, the plane might hit a large chunk head-on while passing through the falling rubble, eliminating the need for the SWAT team by destroying the cockpit before landing.
I don't need the inconvenience heaped on me by all the crap forced upon air travelers, so I don't fly. No one else needs it either, although most are convinced they do. If they really did, civilization would have collapsed early on by our inability to satisfy our instant gratification needs. How in the world anything got accomplished in history without air travel is beyond me. It's amazing we even learned to walk upright, without having some authority to pack us into lines, inspect and invade us. Perhaps if we had, as a species, a single moment of clarity, we might discover that the whole game is rigged, that those in power are stripping us of all our common sense rights, and that we don't need to sacrifice our liberty so some company can make a profit. Here's an idea. . .let's rid the entire planet of the asshats, and then we won't NEED airport security. . .or homeland security. . .or any of those carefully constructed euphemisms that all equal 'we're fucking you, because we can, and because you allow us to. . .'
What twisted logic leads you to believe that the AWB was a good thing?
So everyone bags on tsa as if they're terrible. So which one of you can do better? Tsa isn't perfect and never will be. But my money says that there's not a single person in this discussion that could do better. As for the various rules they try to minimize inconvenience where they can but preventing a hijacking is much more important than anyones convenience so I don't mind dealing with it. Disclaimer: I'm a pilot but not a professional one. I just fly little planes for fun.
Indeed. And saving seven cents isn't at all worth the mental anguish associated with subjecting yourself to Wal-mart.
How are sites slashdotted when nobody reads TFAs?
I will gently suggest that there are at least 5 reports of knives traveling through the x-ray on the thread that I've seen so far. I'm one of them, but maybe I'm a random lunatic. This is a non-trivial non-detection rate, even if 50% of the reports are bullshit.
Let's estimate this. If you say that 20,000 people read this thread today, and that the me-too rate (people for whom this is true, but didn't report) is +100% (doubles the reported, verified rate), and that 70% of the population flies, and that a million people a day fly, let's see, that equals(5*.5*2/(20,000*.7)*1,000,000) = 307 people a day who are likely to be getting a knife through airport security.
You have one father-in-law who asserts that it can't be done. I'll bet that it happens at least 100 times a day.
I had a knife go through security undetected in my backpack on 2/20/08, from Seattle to Tucson. Your father-in-law says it can't be done. Who should I believe? Me, who saw it with my own eyes? Or your Dad, who says it can't be done?
Call me a lunatic, but I'm not going with your dad-in-law.
Oh wait, you did that already... ;-)
I was taught to respect my elders. The trouble is, it's getting harder and harder to find some.
My wife being helpful bought the TSA approved locks, simple 3 dail lock with a TSA pass key in bottom. It was cut off in Houston Airport AFTER clearing US Customs.
Same airport that did not want to follow the TSA rules on screening medically impaired passengers.
You're one of those people who nitpicks Chuck Norris jokes aren't you.
echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
I'd realise I was the director of a really bad movie, and I'd yell "CUT! That's a wrap!"
~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
Actually, the next step is "You can avoid the queue if you will wear the shock collar."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBzwxbBMVug
but it would end up crashing on innocent people in Foggy Bottom office buildings or the State Department.
OK, my gay ranchero -- if you're going to pretend to be an apparatchik and use the insider's lingo, at least learn it correctly beforehand. You'll look less like a fool.
Foggy Bottom refers to the State Department -- no or involved.
The figure of speech here, on the outside chance you're intelligent enough to care, is called "metonomy".
By the way, the term you were groping for in your troglodyte-level blindness would likely be "the Hill".
I have been saying the same thing too. If you are a terrorist and want to kill as many as possible (although thats not the goal of most terrorists), why not go to a big arena concert strapped in explosives? Could easily kill many thousands of people. Or for even more damage, fly a private plane full of gasoline into the crowd of a big rock festival. Many tens of thousands killed.
/ The Arrow
"How lovely you are. So lovely in my straightjacket..." - Nny
The TSA's mainly bull shit and bluster by little tin-pot tyrants.
Best summary I ever heard -- 95% of airport employees are abusive by nature; 9/11 gave the other 25% permission to be assholes, too.
... over here, we just *REMOVE OUR LAPTOPS FROM OUR BAGS* and put them in a separate plastic tray as we go through security.
Oh, and we also tend to put *SHIT THAT ISN'T ALLOWED ON THE AIRCRAFT* into a separate bag - for the benefit of you Americans out there I have personally witnessed carrying suitcases into the hold, please read under "Checking in luggage".
Take it from me - I'm slightly overweight, 46 years old & got told on a Health Screen last week that my blood pressure is perfectly normal. That's because I don't live my life so fast that I let standing for 10 minutes by a baggage carousel (or numerous other miniscule issues) get to me.
Still, having bought a new (multi-pocket) Targus bag for my laptop only a few weeks ago, can someone give me the address I need to write to in order to expense a new laptop bag to the US government for the next time I travel over to the US?
Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.
Well, that sounds much more believable. And it's my brother-in-law, not father ;-) He is only slightly smarter than the TSA people he deals with.
*Current* stupor? The general populace is *always* in a stupor. That's what makes it a general populace! Our entire civilization is focused on giving people the maximum amount of leisure time. We're just resting up for Ragnarok.
Like I said, it's difficult to say, if three large pieces of the plane crashed through three different buildings, quite a few people might have been killed. Especially if they were well populated buildings. Remember, this is New York City.
Well the other thing you have to consider is that New York is pretty small geographically speaking. One would hope that the decision to shoot the thing down could be made before it was flying over Midtown. Failing that, there is precdent for aircraft going down in populated areas without killing lots of people.
I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
They're round-ended, but they're metal. Only in business class, I think. Maybe they figure terrorists only fly in coach.
I piss off bigots.
I don't know where you're from, but on my planet trying to suggest to security staff how to do their job for your own best benefit and convenience is unlikely to speed you on your way.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
they should do something to raise the price of gas to what it is in the UK.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
Or one guy with a dozen grenades and slow fuses.
Which can be accomplished with common household chemicals, and the classic cigarette-and-matchbook slow fuse. No need for even Iron Age tech.
Place your bombs near a mall's exits, so people wind up largely trapped inside (only store employees are likely to know where the emergency exits are) and you could easily kill several thousand at a crack, with no clues left as to how it was accomplished or who did it.
So now what -- does the Walmart door greeter get to double as a strip-search security agent??
Bah, I refuse to be afraid of hypothetical and highly-unlikely threats.
~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
That is in fact one of my own primary arguments against this trend toward cheap-cheaper-cheapest. Yeah, whatevers may cost less up front, but I had to buy the fucking whatevers four times over the same timeframe that I used to buy one, and how much did I save? Well, here's a realworld example, using the SAME company (Brinkman metals) before and after they moved their operation to Mexico:
American-made galvanized bucket, $6. Average lifespan, 5 years. (Manufacturing defects were rare.)
Mexican-made galvanized bucket, $5. Average lifespan, 1 year. (Many less than that due to various manufacturing defects.)
So instead of spending $6 in 5 years, now I spend $30 in 5 years, for the SAME working lifespan. Oh, but the shelf price is a buck less, so we must be saving money! And ya know what?? The price has actually gone back up and is now $8 for the same bucket (rather more than the increase in the price of the scrap metal they're made from) -- still with Heche en Mexico "quality". I'm sure the manufacturer is happy because their profits are higher, but I'm looking for an alternative product, and meanwhile I'll badmouth them every chance I get.
And as you note, it's that way for just about everything. And with many products, the "better" alternatives no longer exist.
"Everything is smaller, more expensive, and not as good as it used to be." -- Andy Rooney (ca. 1985)
~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
That's true, and I've noticed the same problem. Sometimes you can identify the better product, tho.
Frex, Fiskars (maker of fine scissors, garden implements, etc) has two product lines: the original, made in Finland, which are still great, and the cheapo model, made in China with typical Chinese-grade steel (ie. terrible). An experienced eye can tell them apart by examining the blade, but most people couldn't tell without reading the label.
I happened to notice that Costco's Fiskars garden tools were "Made in Finland" at $17, while Walmart's Fiskars garden tools were "Made in China", at $8. Having had all the experience with Chinese-made tools that I care to (often having to replace them within *days* of purchase), I bought the Finnish-made tools.
~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
If they are not immediately interested in nor instructed to seize your bags or divert you to another checkpoint, then gently asking them to allow you space in light of their rejection of your attachment cords is not to much to ask of them.
But, i've around last August and this past February flown and at least two of the legs had intermediate stops and i did not face long lines and so had no cause to worry about separation of my backpack and carry-on bag. I somehow think they don't want to worsen line conditions by causing a re-check of what bag belongs to whom, if they can just add 10 seconds here and there (not everyone will actually ask for the space separation).
Besides, i have yet to run into rude, crude or unseemly TSA personnel, unlike some fliers. Treat people nicely, you usually get nice response (usually-- in my personal experience (well, except mostly when i attended Catholic school for 3 years and was beat up or had my homework balled up and so on... never really had those problems in public schools, except when a class mate in 3rd grade kick my groin for apparently no reason. I schemed and chafed for 2 or 3 days on how to get even; i decided to return the identical favor. We had no problems thereafter, and even ended up becoming friends)...
But, as for TSA screening, I think many delays are due to passenger unmindfulness about what things in their bags cause problems.
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
Easily shot down? Your comment is the only thing easily shot down. If you recall the events of 9/11/2001, the US Air Force didn't have any fighters within 30 minutes of intercepting the four hijacked planes. If they could respond as quickly as you seem to think, the plane which hit the Pentagon, as well as the one which crashed in western Pennsylvania would have both been intercepted and shot down. Didn't happen, did it?
My assumption would be that the US learned a bit from what happened 7 years ago and built a few SAMs around reasonably important buildings.
Nah, Chuck Norris jokes are funny because they're stupid.
Every once in a while people wake up.
See Veitnam for an example.
I showed your post to my brother-in-law who trains TSA personnel on how to use the x-ray stuff. He says you have to be lying about the knife
lol. I think if someone embarrassed the shit out of the quality of my work in what I do for a living, I'd brush it off as anecdotal or a lie, too.
Get real, this isn't Digg and I'm not 13.