McCain Campaign Offers Rewards For Turn-Key Comments

According to a story at the Washington Post, John McCain's presidential campaign is offering more than moral suasion to fire people up for a McCain presidency; they're also offering ready-made snippets of rhetoric for interested supporters to supply under their own names in public comments to online news sources and forums. Such pre-written commentary by itself is neither new nor necessarily nefarious, but it seems a bit off-kilter that prolific commenters are eligible for rewards — not just campaign swag like hats and stickers, but higher-ticket items like a ride with McCain on his campaign bus. Probably a script could be whipped up to compare the canned suggestions on the site with "grassroots" comments on political news sites around the web.

Comments

What?

[Anonymous Coward]

Does this mean that people can now quote Fox News without having to deal with fair use rationale?

This is going to end badly

[Benanov]

As per the subject line, this is going to end badly.

I do, however, find it interesting that this astroturfing is being done so publicly. Before the sources were always hidden, as if the originators seemed ashamed of it.

Now they're acting as if it seems to be business as usual.

Are party supporters allowed to have their own opinion these days? Anecodatal evidence suggests that there is a hive mind forming.

Re:This is going to end badly

[db32]

I had the joy of reading the current Republican voter survey thing. HOLY SHIT talk about weighted and loaded questions. It seems to me that the average modern Republican barely has a coherent thought let alone an opinion. (Don't get too full of yourselves you dirty liberals, we are all aware that you have opinions, you whine about them all the time, do precious little productive, and are otherwise full of stupid ideas.)

Re:This is going to end badly

[Thelasko]

Anecodatal evidence suggests that there is a hive mind forming.

The correct term is groupthink. You need to get on the same page as everybody else.

Re:This is going to end badly

[jimbolauski]

The Democratic one is just as bad, this country is made up of idiots and these questions are designed to fool them.

Re:This is going to end badly

[vonPoonBurGer]

Mod parent +1 doubleplusgoodthink!

Re:This is going to end badly

[Doc Ruby]

Link to this Democratic voter survey, so we can think for ourselves?

Re:This is going to end badly

[foo fighter]

End badly?

I recognize there are serious issues at stake in this election, and serious differences between the candidates. And we will argue about them, as we should.

But it should remain an argument among friends; each of us struggling to hear our conscience, and heed its demands; each of us, despite our differences, united in our great cause, and respectful of the goodness in each other.

How that can end badly? Especially since John McCain has a comprehensive economic plan that will create millions of good American jobs, ensure our nation's energy security, get the government's budget and spending practices in order, and bring relief to American consumers.

Re:This is going to end badly

[Anonymous Coward]

I find your lack of faith disturbing

Re:This is going to end badly

[foo fighter]

See what I did there?

Re:This is going to end badly

[pluther]

John McCain has a comprehensive economic plan that will create millions of good American jobs, ensure our nation's energy security, get the government's budget and spending practices in order, and bring relief to American consumers.

Just like Bush did! Yay!!

Re:This is going to end badly

[delphi125]

How that can end badly? Especially since a politician has a comprehensive economic plan that will create millions of good local jobs, ensure our nation's energy security, get the government's budget and spending practices in order, and bring relief to local consumers.

I've rolled your comment back to the template.

Congratulations on your ride on the tour bus!

Re:This is going to end badly

[Anonymous Coward]

No, this is no Borg collective. The problem the candidates have (both sides, this year) is that the arguments we (the people) have for supporting a candidate are not necessarily arguments that are useful for that candidate's strategy. This is an effort on the part of McCain's camp to limit what they consider the "noise" - if we spend time broadcasting their signal, how much time can we spend causing well-intentioned distractions?

Controlling supporters is a bigger issue this year than I've ever seen (admittedly, I've only been paying attention for a decade or so).

Re:This is going to end badly

[Anonymous Coward]

Are party supporters allowed to have their own opinion these days? Anecodatal evidence suggests that there is a hive mind forming.

No, we're supposed to shut up and fall in line. And you'd be crazy stupid to think I'm ever voting for a liberal.

/why do I have to choose between a socialist and a democrat?

Re:This is going to end badly

[Anonymous Coward]

Uh, isn't "anectdotal evidence" an oxymoron?

Re:This is going to end badly

[rickb928]

"Are party supporters allowed to have their own opinion these days? Anecodatal evidence suggests that there is a hive mind forming."

Oh yeah. we're 'allowed' to have our own opinions. We're also expected to keep them quiet, or at least remain silent during meetings.

Which explains why I've stopped going tomeetings for now. After this election cycle, I might go back. Right now it's just too painful.

Re:This is going to end badly

[SBrach]

I didn't until you pointed it out. Oh, to think where we would be without your brilliance.

Re:This is going to end badly

[Fyz]

Commercial interests aren't afraid of using viral marketing, why should politicians?

Re:This is going to end badly

[uhlume]

Wow, the Republican TrollMods are out in force today.

Re:This is going to end badly

[Anonymous Coward]

Mod parent +1 doubleplusgoodthink!

By definition, shouldn't doubleplusgoodthink merit +2?

Re:This is going to end badly

[Rayonic]

I do, however, find it interesting that this astroturfing is being done so publicly. Before the sources were always hidden, as if the originators seemed ashamed of it.

Yet another example of McCain's openness and honesty. ;-)

Re:This is going to end badly

[Original Replica]

Are party supporters allowed to have their own opinion these days? Anecodatal evidence suggests that there is a hive mind forming.

Are the bulk of McCain supporters intelligent and informed enough to make an actual contribution to a political discussion without help? Apparently, John McCain doesn't think so. This is tantamount to telling his supporters "You are too stupid to discuss my campaign without help."

Re:This is going to end badly

[Anonymous Coward]

Did you get McCain points for the above comment, like the article suggest?

Re:This is going to end badly

[Anonymous Coward]

Will having your comment modded funny (or Offtopic, Flamebait, Troll, Redundant) hurt your chances of winning?

Re:This is going to end badly

[rustalot42684]

How about a link to both?

Re:This is going to end badly

[Anonymous Coward]

The best part about your comment is that it is modded funny. I think that is appropriate, since John McCain does not have a comprehensive economic plan. OPEC has a comprehensive economic plan and John McCain is their surrogate to foist their plan upon the American people. Like George Bush before him. Following such a plan will not ensure our energy security, it will make us less secure. Following such a plan will not get our government's budget and spending practices in order, it will continue to do the opposite as with Bush. Following such a plan will not bring relief to American consumers, it will continue us on the road to the greatest economic recession this country has ever seen, a future that may already be impossible to avert because of Bush's and the Republican party's irresponsible governance.

The good people of America are not going to be fooled again. We are not going to have the bad ending George Bush, John McCain, and Dick Cheney would like for us, those of us with less than the top 1% of wealth, to have. Just say no to OPEC. Just say no to the Bush/McCain ticket. Just say no to a president who ignored the warning of August 6, 2001, and is now bankrupting our nation's economy with his irresponsible war.

Just say no to the hand-picked successor of George Bush.

Re:This is going to end badly

[Anonymous Coward]

End badly?

How that can end badly? Especially since John McCain has a comprehensive economic plan that will create millions of good American jobs, ensure our nation's energy security, get the government's budget and spending practices in order, and bring relief to American consumers.

I hope this is sarcasm.

Re:This is going to end badly

[Doc Ruby]

Moderation +1
    30% Insightful
    40% Troll
    30% Underrated

Yep, asking for a link so we can think for ourselves is a "Troll". If the mod is a Republican in fullon denial clampdown, as their sky finally starts falling for real.

Re:This is going to end badly

[Stradivarius]

This is tantamount to telling his supporters "You are too stupid to discuss my campaign without help."

Not at all. It's simply an acknowledgment that a full-time, professional staff which spends countless hours honing a message is probably going to be more effective at it than anyone else. That's true for Obama and McCain supporters alike - it doesn't seem like such a bad idea to encourage your supporters to make use of that professional work.

Choice of phrasing/argument has less to do with raw intellect than with communications skills. I've known plenty of bright people who couldn't communicate clearly to save their life.

And to be honest, political fervor is usually an emotional rather than a purely intellectual phenomenon. Just check out 90% of the comments on political website forums. If the "Spread the Word" program has no other effect than to get a supporter to calm down long enough to think before they speak, it's probably worthwhile. A well-considered argument or phrase - even if the considering was done by someone else ;-) - is usually better than a knee-jerk response.

Re:This is going to end badly

[amRadioHed]

Wow, it's almost as if the Republican mods take pride in being ignorant.

(Note to mods: I've been saying that Republican's are blissfully ignorant for years, so I'm not mindlessly parroting talking points)

Re:This is going to end badly

[that this is not und]

Just check out 90% of the comments on political website forums.

Don't just take this guy's word for it. Go to some of the sites. Check out lucianne.com, freerepublic.com, dailykos.org and democraticunderground.com. Read the stuff the cranks on those sites are spewing out on the forums. The best thing that either campaign can do is provide nice secluded blogs to contain those nuts until after the election. Nutroots indeed.

Re:This is going to end badly

[Anonymous Coward]

It should remain an argument among friends, but it will end badly because it will end up an argument among idiots.

Re:This is going to end badly

[Original Replica]

it doesn't seem like such a bad idea to encourage your supporters to make use of that professional work.

My problem with it is that sound-bites (or the text equivalent) are not political discussion, they are advertising. By adding more advertising noise into the forums where discussion should be taking place, this approach is dumbing down the voter's actual political awareness even more. By instructing and encouraging such a focused forum spam campaign, this distorts any possible consensus coming out a discussion on those selected forums. By contrast, here on Slashdot it frequently happens that someone makes a point that is embraced by the community, but is quite different from the stance of big media or the press release.

If the "Spread the Word" program has no other effect than to get a supporter to calm down long enough to think before they speak, it's probably worthwhile. A well-considered argument or phrase - even if the considering was done by someone else ;-) - is usually better than a knee-jerk response.

That is what I mean about McCain insinuating that his supporters are stupid, this "talking points" thing is most effective when the best the supporter can come up with on their own is "a knee-jerk response".

Re:This is going to end badly

[anonymous cowerd]

I believe the au courant technical term for this is "cloud computing".

Re:This is going to end badly

[KevinKnSC]

First, following your logic, something can be good (+1), plusgood (+2), or doubleplusgood (+3).

Second, and more importantly, the definition of doubleplusgood is whatever we say it is.

Re:This is going to end badly

[Anonymous Coward]

McCain's not the guy you're planning to elect - it's his running mate who's the real threat. McCain's old and fragile, probably won't last the year.

Re:This is going to end badly

[shokk]

NO! Get on board man! Obama's message of "change for the sake of random change" is right on! He's going to make a d20 roll against reality and hope his shit comes up roses. Why bother with details, we'll just blame our credit issues on the gummint and maybe we'll ALL be a welfare check away from salvation!

Re:This is going to end badly

[Actually, I do RTFA]

Anecodatal evidence suggests that there is a hive mind forming.

The correct term is groupthink. You need to get on the same page as everybody else.

Groupthink would be if large groups of Republicans disagree with the party line, but no one wants to risk speaking up. So a bad decision is made that wouldn't be if one or two prominent people spoke up and provided cover to move.

Advesarial systems are designed to prevent groupthink. Which is why so many legal arguments can sound stupid but be said passionately. To give people a way to hold that opinion and not be ridiculed (inside the profession at least.)

Re:This is going to end badly

[game kid]

Are the bulk of McCain supporters intelligent and informed enough to make an actual contribution to a political discussion without help? Apparently, John McCain doesn't think so. This is tantamount to telling his supporters "You are too stupid to discuss my campaign without help."

I strongly agree. I decided to check a few of both major's video pages. Whereas the summaries of Obama's videos are largely demure "At $event_type in $place, Obama discusses $blah and proposes $widget" things, McCain's are mostly "Receive the latest official YouTube videos from the McCain campaign! Watch this video and click 'Subscribe' just above the box where this message is displayed on the video's page. John McCain for President: $url", with the occasional "and tell 10 of your friends to join you in subscribing!" thrown in.

I would understand if the McCain videos were from some zealous fan who was begging for subscriptions so he could show them to whoever was dumb enough to marvel at the large number on his profile at the local bar. Alas, it's just McCain's official YouTube account.

I might've just dismissed it as a case of Totally Radical*, but combined with massive flip-flops from his former, decent positions, it seems more like a big "fuck you" blended with a "you're an idiot" to any American who supports freedom. I don't like many of the things that all of the talked-about candidates have done, but (unless he's doing this to attract enough dumb Americans to pleasantly fucking shock us by ending the Iraq War, respecting the Constitution and reprocessing all of our nukes into sprinkled vanilla ice cream cones or whatever), there's no reason I could trust--much less vote for--John McCain.

*I'm not sure how I first found TV Tropes like a year ago; probably during my usual quest for Cutie Honey*ahem*information...but I wildly digress.

Re:This is going to end badly

[Repossessed]

He asked for a link to something that was never mentioned by the person he was responding too, a strawman argument, while not a troll, hardly insightful either, the democrat mods lose this one too.

Re:This is going to end badly

[Anonymous Coward]

You're *hilarious*.

Re:This is going to end badly

[fredmosby]

So you think McCain should offer no help to people who want to support him instead.

Interesting campaign strategy.

Re:This is going to end badly

[kubla2000]

You're saying that "John McCain has a comprehensive economic plan that will create millions of good American jobs, ensure our nation's energy security, get the government's budget and spending practices in order, and bring relief to American consumers."?

I think that bears repeating

John McCain has a comprehensive economic plan that will create millions of good American jobs, ensure our nation's energy security, get the government's budget and spending practices in order, and bring relief to American consumers.

Re:This is going to end badly

[Anonymous Coward]

I believe the au courant technical term for this is "cloud computing".

You speak a foreign language, and yet you expect to be taken seriously when commenting on American politics?

Re:This is going to end badly

[rtb61]

Well no, they are hidden because they only work if the people reading don't know they are not really people's actual opinion.

Publicly advertising that you are doing it and seeking as many, liars as possible to spread your brand of B$, is just plain stupid. It really does point to an extreme level of ignorance with regard to the internet and, that somehow, via some reality distortion field, that people will only read the bits you want them to read and the ignore the other stuff you don't want them to read, or that only the blind faithful will look at that bits on your web site that you don't want the general public to read.

This really points to the massive disconnect of the republicans and their ownership of mass media, where only the lies that they want to present as the truth get out to the public via adverting as news outlets and the real truth is buried (well at least within the US, it is of course spread embarrassingly across the rest of the globe).

Of course you could look at it another, the neocons have spent some much time telling some of the most flagrant lies, that for them it is now seen as normal everyday behaviour and just a regular part of corporate business, lie cheat and steal, it's what they do, everybody knows it, it's how they get rich.

Re:This is going to end badly

[uhlume]

I'm sorry, do you have a hard time parsing pronouns in general, or only in the context of threaded discussions? He was responding to a claim that "the Democratic one is just as bad," which itself was a reply to a criticism of the Republican voter survey. How is asking for a link to the allegedly just-as-bad Democratic survey a "strawman argument"?

Re:This is going to end badly

[uhlume]

It's almost as if someone wanted to help me prove my point... Thanks, anonymous benefactor!

Re:This is going to end badly

[uhlume]

(Granted, I'd be curious to see a link to the Republican survey, too, but the absence of one hardly invalidates the question.)

Re:This is going to end badly

[Killjoy_NL]

According to Colbert, they prefer to be called Ignorant-Americans :)

Re:This is going to end badly

[__aailob1448]

Oh man, I did not see that coming! I am intrigued by your sese of humor and wish to subscribe to your newsletter :)

Re:This is going to end badly

[Stervyatnik]

I'm a non-conformist because all my friends are that way.

Re:This is going to end badly

[odourpreventer]

First, following your logic, something can be good (+1), plusgood (+2), or doubleplusgood (+3).

No, doubleplusgood is +4. It's only +3 for small values of plusgood (+2). (Warning: obscure accountant joke.)

Re:This is going to end badly

[Anonymous Coward]

Another red vs blue sheep heard from. Wake up.

Re:This is going to end badly

[The_reformant]

...is usually better than a knee-jerk response.

I'll knee-jerk your response!

Re:This is going to end badly

[boto]

Are party supporters allowed to have their own opinion these days? Anecodatal evidence suggests that there is a hive mind forming.

It could be worse: the election process here in Brazil is *designed* to give power to parties as entities, not as "supporters of ideas". This means that the parties don't care about what their supporters believe, but instead what is needed to make the party grow and survive.

And it is impossible to *create* new parties here, today, unless you have an army of half a million people available to support you. You aren't even *allowed* to be a candidate for a small legislative role in a tiny town, unless you are being supported by one of the existing parties.

Re:This is going to end badly

[Doc Ruby]

"The Democratic one [voter survey] is just as bad".

So I asked for a link to that Democratic voter survey.

I never got one.

But a bunch of Republican TrollMods modded me down for asking.

And now you, a Republican liar, talk some nonsense about a "strawman" argument. And say that the mods are some how "Democrats", when they're just simply capable of basic logical thought.

You Republicans have given up even claims to basic bran activity. You're the Terry Schiavo Party. After this cretinous election campaign you'll run on nothing but terror and lies, you'll barely be human. Looks like WcCain is just doing the best he can with what he's got: he's going to war with the supporters he has, not the supporters he wishes he has.

Yes, this is going to end badly. For Republicans like you. Why not? You've ended America badly for everyone else.

Re:This is going to end badly

[halcyon1234]

Give him a break. He was just trying to think inside the box.

Re:This is going to end badly

[frankie]

As someone who has responded to "surveys" from both Dem & GOP, I have to say this is false. Dem surveys are substantially more open to (mainstream) differences of opinion than Republican ones.

Re:This is going to end badly

[qwerty shrdlu]

Allowing itelligent and informed supporters to make their own comments leads to deviationism.

Re:This is going to end badly

[db32]

Actually the problem I see with your statement is that you are ready to accept that the Republican survey is crap, but challenge the notion that the Democrat one is. And now you are going on partisan attack the Republicans. This ultimately was my whole point about Democrats getting so full of themselves, thank you for demonstrating so clearly.

For the record I am not a Democrat or a Republican because both parties have precious few differences and have fucked the ever living hell out of this country and do a bang up job of dividing people into Red Dumbasses and Blue Dumbasses with their typical rhetoric.

Also, I saw a physical copy of said survey, I have no idea where it would be online if it even is. I imagine the Democratic survey is about the same. The most mindboggling thing here is that you couldn't be bothered to go look them up yourself and assumed we had links to them. Then you turned it into some kind of anti Republican rant when you weren't provided a link so you could avoid looking for something to "think for yourself". Congratulations you have proved beyond a shadow of a doubt why the modern Democrats are even more worthless than the modern Republican. Like voting in telcom immunity with a Democratic majority. So they support bad Republican ideas and then cry and blame the Republicans for it. Pathetic. I half expect Cheney to walk into the room and shout "Boo" and watch all of the Democrats hide under their desks. I loathe saying this since I hate most of what the Republicans have been up to, but I respect people who take action on their beliefs regardless of how wrong I think they are WAY more than people who just cower, talk a big game, and then cave at the first sign of opposition.

Re:This is going to end badly

[Anonymous Coward]

Are the bulk of McCain supporters intelligent and informed enough to make an actual contribution to a political discussion without help? Apparently, John McCain doesn't think so. This is tantamount to telling his supporters "You are too stupid to discuss my campaign without help."

Say that again after Jessie Jackson calls you a nagger and says he wants to cut your balls off. I know that was Obama and not McCain - but it shows the type of stupid things that can be said. Even though Obama did not say it himself and had nothing to do with it (I assume) it is still splashed all over the news while taking about Obama. Both parties have very good campaign teams that can do a much better job than any individual making random sound bites. Someone on your side can say something stupid and you wind up answering questions about it for the next week.

Re:This is going to end badly

[inKubus]

I prefer the term astrospamming, turfing would imply a surface coating whereas spam is just lots of repeated messages, which is correct in this sense. The astro maybe doesn't make sense, but it serves to link the old, obsolete term from FOUR YEARS AGO with a new buzzword.

Anyone skilled in communications would know that this sort of campaign is useless. Your brain has filters which accept, and yes, remember a certain level of repetition. Soon after it stops at a certain threshold, like a cliche, for instance. I hope the O team is smart enough to stay out of this one. Major spam will just make M look like the extremely old man he is.

Re:This is going to end badly

[Doc Ruby]

Sure, you're not a Republican. Tell me that you're "really a Libertarian" or something. Or a "real Conservative". Who did you vote for in 2004?

I asked for a link to an unsupported, but highly bashing statement. When people make those kinds of claims, it's their job to back them up, especially when asked politely. No one has time to go searching for the evidence to back up each outrageous claim made on the Internet, especially not the ones routinely manufactured for Slashdot posts.

But someone who had the link posted it. And it's clear that the Democratic one is not "just the same as the Republican one" as you now claim. On what evidence do you base that claim? On the powerful fact that you "imagine the Democratic survey is about the same".

Who did you vote for in 2004?

You're a Republican. You're just a cowardly cop-out who votes Republican and denies it. For my part, despite being registered to no political party, I usually vote for the Democrat in most elections, because they're the best choice. I have never seen a Republican worth voting for, unless I were on a jury voting for hanging.

The fact is that here in reality, the Republicans have actually destroyed a country. Democrats at worst have squandered opportunities to lead the country into greatness, but their mismanagement has at worst still been sustainable. Not "as Republicans imagine it", but in reality. So when a horde of Republicans modded me out of sight when all I did was ask for a link so I could decide that pronouncement's truth for myself, I just called them out. And then even more of you creeps came out of the woodwork. Though along with that one person's post that proved you're all lying about the Democratic survey's quality compared to the Republican one.

You can go on and on about what you imagine. Here in reality, the Democratic survey is not "just as bad as the Republican one". The Democrats are not "just as bad as Republicans". And you Republicans, no matter what name you fancy yourself going by, are destroying the country. You people are full of nothing but nightmares that you use to destroy us, with truth as your first victim.

Re:This is going to end badly

[phlinn]

Define astroturfing as opposed to grassroots. I clearly have a different definition than you do. Then please explain how providing snippets of rhetoric for individuals to use to make their point changes the fact that it is private individuals making the point as opposed to actual employees of the campaign. This is no more than fertilizer (perhaps of bovine origins) for the grassroots to utilize. It's the difference between a random commentator who agrees with them quoting an AEI publication, and someone who is actually one of their employees doing so.

Re:This is going to end badly

[The Slashdot Guy]

And to be honest, political fervor is usually an emotional rather than a purely intellectual phenomenon. Just check out 90% of the comments on political website forums.

Here is a place to start.

Re:This is going to end badly

[tbannist]

Yes, if his idea of "helping" them is to bribe them to say nice things about him.

Re:This is going to end badly

[encoderer]

Dear anonymous cowerd,

John McCain supports cloud computing because he feels a strong environment is necessary to the security of the United States.

Only with could computing can we finally break the grip of foreign oil. In the post-9/11 world, energy security is economic security.

John McCain is a true American Hero. I hope you'll support John McCain as much as John McCain supports cloud computing .

Re:This is going to end badly

[db32]

And you are a flaming douche, I bet you voted for giant douche! I love how you people just get your panties in a twist and fling mud at anything you percieve to be "evil Republican". This is why noone outside your circle of whiners takes you seriously.

First, I have never claimed to have seen the Democratic one, just the Republican one, and I was horrified at it. The notion that insulting information about the Democratic one is an unsupported and highly bashing statement, but my comments about the Republican one were taken without question is quite telling. In fact following those links is "See how childish and stupid the Republicans are!" with fake questions and then "real" questions from the Democratic survey. And yes, linking to other slashdot stories to debunk "the kind of lies on slashdot" seems the typical brainless banter of both parties involved. Thank you for once again showing that the Democratic side is equally guilty.

I have never voted Republican, ever. Course I haven't voted for a Democrat either. Given that every time I am presented the choice between two sheisty lying assholes I figure I shouldn't vote for either. But thank you for so accurately stating my voting habbits, once again, more lefty partisan bullshit. Anyone that doesn't agree with us MUST be an evil Republican. And again, this is why Democrats can't do anything productive, all they do is run and scream and cry and pretend that they have some great solution. If Democrats had any kind of solution they would have done something. Their MO is to let Republicans fuck things up, cry and cry and make a big fuss about how they will fix it, get elected, and then collect any lobby dollars and waste money on their own pet projects. I will give you that Republicans have done FAR more damage to this country in the last 8 years than Democrats. On that we absolutely agree. I just don't have any misguided belief that these assholes will do anything to fix what the Republicans have done rather than take advantage of their newfound government power themselves. The great Dem Obama voted for Telcom immunity (sad really, I actually hoped he was genuine about fixing this trainwreck). At least McCain is honest that he is going to continue to fuck our country up, the Democrats keep saying they don't support that and then continue to vote YES on things. I hope McCain doesn't win, but an honest assholes is better than a dishonest asshole, at least you know what to expect.

By the way, the only reason the Executive branch has the power it does right now is because Congress (first Republican, but now Democrat) has completely and totally walked away from their responsibilities and instead of stopping the out of control Executive (see Checks and Balances) would rather just wimper and blame Republicans to try and better their chances of getting more Democrats elected. Fucking pathetic. Neither of the parties are interested in doing ANYTHING other than getting themselves more seats elected.

Re:This is going to end badly

[db32]

Forgot to mention...those links talking about surveys no less than 2 years old. And they aren't even surveys, but a guy talking about surveys and not posting the actual survey. So you are citing a guy saying "R surveys are bad, D surveys are good, trust me I have seen them". AND this guy says he is a registered Republican so he clearly can't be trusted right?

So anyways...let me be the first to welcome you into the year 2008. Did you know there are elections this year? Yup, brand new weasles will get jobs in Washington, isn't that exciting? With that, the weasel commities have decided to work really hard on polarizing the unwashed masses into supporting different breeds of weasel. It seems to be working quite well.

Re:This is going to end badly

[Anonymous Coward]

Guess you lost that debate ya partisan hack.

Re:This is going to end badly

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh, come on, now.
John McCain is the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful human being I've ever known in my life.

Re:This is going to end badly

[Xonstantine]

We'll see who's sky is falling in November.

Re:This is going to end badly

[Anonymous Coward]

Argument among friends, is a good idea but not really done any more. I see it in the sciences but no place else.

Re:This is going to end badly

[vuffi_raa]

How that can end badly? Especially since McCain Foods is the world's largest producer of frozen French fries and the manufacturer of other quality food products sold in more than 110 countries.
hmm..... maybe mccain.com is not john mccain's site......

The Issue: Jobs for America

[SeanTobin]

John McCain has a comprehensive economic plan that will destroy millions of good American jobs, ensure our neighboring nation's energy security, get the government's budget and spending practices continuing on their existing successful path, and bring relief to Chinese consumers. Click to learn how the McCain Economic Plan will help bring reform, prosperity and peace to America. Read More...

Re:The Issue: Jobs for America

[Anonymous Coward]

If you think Obama is a "socialist," maybe you should take some time to understand the issues...

Re:The Issue: Jobs for America

[Jafafa Hots]

The Revolution was a liberal cause in the extreme. The "conservative" principles were not the ones founding this country, they were the ones fighting to prevent its independence from England. You Tory.

Re:The Issue: Jobs for America

[Anonymous Coward]

If you think Obama's not a socialist maybe you should have listened to him before he beat Hillary.

Re:The Issue: Jobs for America

[Evildonald]

Obama has many plans that will meet every situation at all times simultaneously for all planets in the universe. *Sticks out cup for more Kool-Aid*

Re:The Issue: Jobs for America

[Anonymous Coward]

Mr. Obama is like a teenager of 18. He knows everything and THINKS he knows even more. How does being an "organizational activist" make someone ready to be President? He's less than a single term Senator, for GOD's sake! In another 10 years, he may make a fantastic President assuming we aren't a socialist country then.

BTW, I've been unemployed for almost a year. Mr. Obama's economic plan scares me very much. Obama would mandate so much from companies and tax them so much that they'd reduce staff or leave the country for less taxing nations.

Mr. Obama's ideas on ethanol come straight from ADM - a huge company in his home state. Imagine that. High corn prices are good for ADM, but not for the USA as a whole. Only items that don't impact the food supply or cost of food should be used to make ethanol. Something that grows on land that isn't used for another crop or food source.

I'd rather have a man who lived through captivity and torture for 2 years in a whole than someone who believes he can image what that is like.

Mr. McCain is only slightly better. He compromises on things that should not be compromised on, but he definitely has gobs more experience in military, international, local, border, Indian Nation and government affairs.

Both are wicked funny.
Both stretch the true as it relates to the other.

Paris Hilton can't run for President due to her age, bitches.

Re:The Issue: Jobs for America

[Anonymous Coward]

If you think Obama's a socialist, you don't know the meaning of the word socialist.

Re:The Issue: Jobs for America

[that this is not und]

You clearly need to read some E. Burke. Get a clue, dood.

Re:The Issue: Jobs for America

[KKlaus]

Or read his energy plan. I like Obama, but sheesh, can you say Command and Control?

Re:The Issue: Jobs for America

[chunk08]

No one reads that anymore. It used to be the prime textbook for law school. Not anymore :-(

Re:The Issue: Jobs for America

[Tenek]

I am dismayed at the overwhelming liberalism present on this site. I had hoped that fellow geeks would have more sense than this. Conservatism, capitalism...that is what our country was founded on. McCain is not the poster child for the conservative movement by any means, but he is far superior to the socialist ideas put forth by Obama and fellow liberals, such as Nancy Pelosi. Please, PLEASE, take some time to understand the issues prior to repeating the nonsense so abundant in our media.

The reason this site is 'overwhelmingly liberal' is that /. has a global audience. Not just Alabama. It's easy to be a liberal when you're compared with, say, FOX, or the Republican Party. Hell, even the Democrats are pretty damned conservative on some things, particularly the red-state ones. This is roughly the same line of reasoning involved in creating Conservapedia - this thing is more liberal than me, therefore it must be horribly biased, and I must create my own with a correct view!

When you hear people talk about the 'far left' attacking Obama for being too conservative, consider that a large number of people (many not in America) consider your politics to be less about 'liberal vs. conservative' and more 'conservative vs. extremist'. You have mainstream politicians who haven't the slightest concern for the rights of women or gays, and in America a smear campaign involves calling the other guy a Muslim. That should be right up there with saying he's a Jew or a Catholic, but in America it's still just fine.

Everybody's a centrist in their own mind (or alternatively, thinks that there's a 'right' and a 'wrong' side of the center.) If 90% of the people you see are more liberal than you, then congratulations, you're atypically conservative.

Re:The Issue: Jobs for America

[lpevey]

>>Conservatism, capitalism...that is what our country was founded on

Our founding fathers were, for their time, about as radical as they could have possibly been.

Re:The Issue: Jobs for America

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, Obama is a socialist and you yourself don't know the meaning of the word. Of course that's not something to be ashamed about, as it is quite common. Bush the younger and his dad are socialist too. They wouldn't dream of admitting it ever in public and the Bush baby probably can't even pronounce the word. Doesn't make a hoot of difference. All presidents sinds Wilson have been socialist if you look at their deeds instead of what they say.

Re:The Issue: Jobs for America

[Anonymous Coward]

no, you REALLY don't know what a socialist is. Here's a clue, the US has never had a socialist president. Ever.

Re:The Issue: Jobs for America

[moosesocks]

Actually, he sounds a lot like a cross between FDR and JFK.

As long as he keeps himeself accountable, I think we're safe.

Re:The Issue: Jobs for America

[ginbot462]

> The reason this site is 'overwhelmingly liberal' is that /. has a global audience. Not just Alabama.

I'm from Alabama you insensitive clod! No seriously, I am! (Huntsville to be precise).

And yes, I do own guns and drink whiskey and drive a four wheeler. Shit, it's fun! You can do all those glorious things and still not be a Bush lover.

Let me be the first to say...

[Anonymous Coward]

"John McCain has a comprehensive economic plan that will create millions of good American jobs, ensure our nation's energy security, get the government's budget and spending practices in order, and bring relief to American consumers. Click to learn how the McCain Economic Plan will help bring reform, prosperity and peace to America."

Re:Let me be the first to say...

[Anonymous Coward]

Astroturfing is nothing new for either candidate and has been a part of politics for a few thousand years before its namesake was even invented.

What's "higher-ticket" mean?

[randyest]

not just campaign swag like hats and stickers, but higher-ticket items like a ride with McCain on his campaign bus.

Huh? I'd sure rather have a hat or a sticker than ride in the same vehicle as some old guy. Have you smelled an old person? It's not pretty; like a combination of mothballs, fried bacon, a Catholic church, talcum powder, and the dust underneath the couch

Re:What's "higher-ticket" mean?

[corbettw]

It said you'd get a ride on the bus, not which McCain you'd be riding.

Re:What's "higher-ticket" mean?

[Sklyan]

or as meatwad so eloquently put it: "he smells like lotion and doodoo"

Re:What's "higher-ticket" mean?

[retendo]

Wow, you sound just like Paris.

Re:What's "higher-ticket" mean?

[Chris Burke]

Have you smelled an old person? It's not pretty; like a combination of mothballs, fried bacon, a Catholic church, talcum powder, and the dust underneath the couch

Those are actually the ingredients in the cologne that old people wear in order to drive you whipper-snappers off their lawn!

The exact formula is a carefully guarded secret, mostly by virtue of none of them being able to remember.

Re:What's "higher-ticket" mean?

[mobby_6kl]

In the light of recent events, I'd rather not ride their bus at all.

Re:What's "higher-ticket" mean?

[CdBee]

well I suppose you could make a point about Republican views on gun control, by getting on his bus then shooting the fucker? the judge wouldn't be kind but posterity might have a less harsh view

Re:What's "higher-ticket" mean?

[Larryish]

Huh? I'd sure rather have a hat or a sticker than ride in the same vehicle as some old guy. Have you smelled an old person? It's not pretty; like a combination of mothballs, fried bacon, a Catholic church, talcum powder, and the dust underneath the couch

The smell of a Catholic church is the smell of fear...

Re:What's "higher-ticket" mean?

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow, she's cute.
http://stylemens.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2008/02/28/meghanmccain.jpg

Re:What's "higher-ticket" mean?

[rrohbeck]

I'd sure rather have a hat or a sticker than ride in the same vehicle as some old guy. Have you smelled an old person?

You mean a wrinkly white haired dude?

Re:What's "higher-ticket" mean?

[barzok]

Shitty taste in beer though.

Re:What's "higher-ticket" mean?

[Anonymous Coward]

There is no Palestine.

Re:What's "higher-ticket" mean?

[Nefarious Wheel]

I'd sure rather have a hat or a sticker than ride in the same vehicle as some old guy. Have you smelled an old person?

You mean a wrinkly white haired dude?

I am a wrinkly white haired dude, you insensitive clod!

Re:What's "higher-ticket" mean?

[amRadioHed]

What is it? I thought it looked like a Stone brew from the back, but couldn't really tell.

Re:What's "higher-ticket" mean?

[Anonymous Coward]

Shhh my jewish brother, we don't exterminate the last of them till next week.

Re:What's "higher-ticket" mean?

[omnicron13]

Have you smelled an old person? It's not pretty; like a combination of mothballs, fried bacon, a Catholic church, talcum powder, and the dust underneath the couch

It's lies!

Though McCain himself does have the faint aroma of the Neolithic.

Re:What's "higher-ticket" mean?

[Anonymous Coward]

Caterpillars to the sea!

Re:What's "higher-ticket" mean?

[barzok]

That's a bottle of Bud Light.

Re:first!

[snowraver1]

Screw first posts, we have issues that need addressing:

John McCain has a comprehensive economic plan that will create millions of good American jobs, ensure our nation's energy security, get the government's budget and spending practices in order, and bring relief to American consumers. Read each of the sections below to learn how the McCain Economic Plan will help bring reform, prosperity and peace to America.

GIVE ME MONEY PLEASE!!!! *Sticks out hand*

Re:first!

[clem]

first?

I hope for McCain's sake this isn't an example of the ready-made rhetoric. It lacks conviction. Also, it should really have McCain's name in the snippet.

Try something like the following:

McCain first!

See? Much better.

Yeah.. well worth it.

[onion2k]

If there's anything that will swing my vote at an election it's a comment posted on someone's blog. Policies schmolicies, I want to see what the public think!

*goes to look at what the public think*

Ok, I saw what the public think, and now I want the winner of America's Got Talent to be president.

Re:Yeah.. well worth it.

[AuMatar]

Over McCain? Probably a wise decision.

Re:Yeah.. well worth it.

[philspear]

No one ever went broke underestimating american taste, and no one ever got modded down for overstating american stupidity.

People are far more interested in this campaign than america's got talent. I mean, some age groups yes, are more interested in that, but not MOST of the voting age and above.

On a completely unrelated note, there needs to be a mod option of "-1 trite cynicism." If you like that type of thing you could change it to score +1 instead.

Re:Yeah.. well worth it.

[maxume]

The guy who is making a ton of money on the show (he's the winner right?) is British, so he can't be president.

Re:Yeah.. well worth it.

[Gilmoure]

Why not? The Constitution is really more like guidelines than actual rules and stuff.

Re:Yeah.. well worth it.

[Lord Pillage]

I think you mean "+/- 0 trite cynicism" because it won't make a difference anyway.

Re:Yeah.. well worth it.

[that this is not und]

It's a LIVING document and needs to be reinterpreted by political appointees.

Re:Yeah.. well worth it.

[mR.bRiGhTsId3]

Why not? The Constitution is really more like guidelines than actual rules and stuff.

Of course it is, and I'm pretty that it was designed that way.

Re:Yeah.. well worth it.

[Darundal]

This is /., that would have to be "+50 +site admin rights +infinite mod points for life +user ID number reduction trite cynicism."

Here's one...

[Anonymous Coward]

"I love John McCain. I mean, really, I love him... nightly, in my dreams."
-- A. Coward

Speaking of John McCain

[Affenkopf]

John McCain has a comprehensive economic plan that will create millions of good American jobs, ensure our nation's energy security, get the government's budget and spending practices in order, and bring relief to American consumers. ... I want to be ambassador to Jamaica!

Am I missing something?

[meta-monkey]

I don't see the "canned suggestions." There's a position paper, but it looks like the McCain campaign is just encouraging people to make comments and discuss issues on blog sites, not telling them what to say.

Re:Am I missing something?

[Abcd1234]

Did you miss the Today's Talking Points links? Or did you actively ignore them?

Re:Am I missing something?

[Anonymous Coward]

Let's try to keep the partisanship down, okay? There are serious issues at stake in this election, and serious differences between the candidates. And we will argue about them, as we should. But it should remain an argument among friends; each of us struggling to hear our conscience, and heed its demands; each of us, despite our differences, united in our great cause, and respectful of the goodness in each other.

Re:Am I missing something?

[Javit]

I checked the linked page (I know, I know...) after seeing the grandparent post, and do see the "Today's Talking Points" part, but I don't see where people are being asked to copy that text verbatim. Maybe you could explain why you and the Post reporter categorize them as "sample comments" instead of simply attacking the grandparent? I read them more as the campaign's take to visitors on the issues they'd like raised, and the arguments they'd like used, in the tradition of the talking points the major parties give their members of Congress.

Re:Am I missing something?

[Jimithing DMB]

It's worse than that though. It isn't only timothy's Slashdot story that refers to "Today's Talking Points" as "sample comments" it's the original Washington Post article.

I find it quite a stretch to suggest that the talking points are somehow given as examples of good comments. They are very dry and read as though they are suggestions of topics a McCain supporter might talk about. They don't look at all like anything that would be well received on any message board. Hence, talking points.

All political campaigns do this so there's no news here. Either WaPo is out of stories or the author was just looking to write something bad about McCain's campaign. That's beyond mere bias. That's pushing an agenda.

As for timothy, he's either a sucker for falling for this blatant anti-McCain non-story or he's also pushing an agenda. It could be both too. Perhaps he turned his bullshit detector off because he's for Obama and against McCain. He wouldn't be the first person to do that and he won't be the last. But I think at the very least he should update the story with a correction. The "facts" presented in it are at the very least quite a stretch if not an outright lie.

Re:Am I missing something?

[Jimithing DMB]

Funny.. but doesn't that sort of prove the point that the talking points on the website don't make particularly great sample comments?

They read like a prepared statement from a political campaign, not like something you'd find on a message board. Oh wait, that's because they are prepared statements from a political campaign and are referred to as "talking points" which seems to be an accurate description. Sample comments my ass.

Re:Am I missing something?

[meta-monkey]

I saw the "Today's Talking Points" links, and clicked them. Did you? One is a poorly produced video of McCain talking platitudes about how he's going to "work quickly" to fix economic problems, and the other is the full text of a speech McCain delivered about partisanship.

I would say these are McCain's current talking points, not canned comments meant to be cut and pasted onto forums. I mean, campaign speeches are generally given in the first person, so anyone who tried to cut and paste McCain's speech would look like they actually were Senator McCain. I don't think it's the intention of the McCain campaign to encourage supporters to pretend to be the Senator on the Internet...

Sorry, the Post article and the /. summary are wrong...there are no "canned comments" here meant to be cut and pasted onto forums. Just general position papers (just like all candidates have on their websites).

Now, there is a rewards system for posting original comments on blogs, and that's something worth talking about. But it does not appear as if the comments are being supplied by the McCain campaign, like the article says.

Re:Am I missing something?

[meta-monkey]

Oh, and by the way, Obama has the the same thing, only better, I'd say, as it tracks how well you're doing in all aspects of helping his campaign (hosting events, making phone calls, etc) as opposed to just how well you're doing posting on the Internet.

Re:Am I missing something?

[rtechie]

On this page, the second link on the "Talking Points" section:

http://www.johnmccain.com/Issues/JobsforAmerica/relief.htm

we find a list of bullet points like this one:

# John McCain believes we should send a strong message to world markets. Under his plan, the United States will be telling oil producing countries and oil speculators that our dependence on foreign oil will come to an end - and the impact will be lower prices at the pump.

The site doesn't explicitly SAY to use them in comments, but it's certainly a strong encouragement. I'd also point out that most of these "talking points", like the one above, say nothing substantive. Weirdly, on the same page he has these talking points:

# John McCain will repeal the 54 cents per gallon tax on imported sugar-based ethanol, increasing competition, and lowering prices of gasoline at the pump.

# John McCain will roll back corn-based ethanol mandates, which are contributing to the rising cost of food.

which are contradictory.

Re:Am I missing something?

[meta-monkey]

Obama (and all political candidates) has the same bullet points format about issues on his site. Obama also has an activity tracking system so supporters can earn points for helping out his campaign.

I guess I don't see why McCain (or any other politician) encouraging his supporters to spread his message on the internet is indicative of a nefarious plot worthy of criticism and expose`.

This is a non-story.

Re:Am I missing something?

[Nefarious Wheel]

...indicative of a nefarious plot...

Let me be the judge of that.

Re:Am I missing something?

[Actually, I do RTFA]

# John McCain will repeal the 54 cents per gallon tax on imported sugar-based ethanol, increasing competition, and lowering prices of gasoline at the pump.

# John McCain will roll back corn-based ethanol mandates, which are contributing to the rising cost of food.

which are contradictory.

Well, corn-based ethanol doesn't lower the price of gas. In fact, it raises it. In part this is because generating the ethanol uses more gas than it replaces.

On the other hand, sugar cane generates ethanol far more efficently. And Brazil generates a surplus. If we reduced the tariff, we could import it, helping the environment, our and Brazil's economy.

Re:Am I missing something?

[meta-monkey]

So if you were running for office, and said to your supporters, "Hey, guys, please go tell other people about my ideas!" you'd be guilty of some form of evil? How so?

Re:Am I missing something?

[Abcd1234]

Not quite... nowhere on that page does it suggest you astroturf on blogs. It's all about encouraging campaign participation (ie, making phone calls on behalf of the campaign, hosting events, etc).

Of course, that's a fine line to draw, but I think it's an important distinction... in the latter case, it's clear the individual is acting on behalf of the campaign. In the former, it's clearly an attempt to simulate independent, grassroots support.

And to be fair, that's on my brief reading of both websites. I could be wrong, and if Obama's campaign is encouraging astroturfing (the disguising of campaign-induced activity as independent advocacy), then they, too, deserve derision.

Re:Am I missing something?

[meta-monkey]

But it's not astroturfing. Astroturfing would be if members of the McCain campaign themselves (either paid staffers or unpaid volunteers) went to blogs and forums and made posts, pretending to be merely "concerned citizens."

Consider like an advertising campaign for a product, like a digital camera.

Astroturfing is when the camera maker hires actors to stand around in Times Square and ask passersby, "hey, we're here on vacation from Smallfriendlytown USA...would you take a picture of us with our new Sony 1247k series digital camera with SmartZoom technology?" Basically, insiders pretending to be "regular people."

An actual grassroots marketing effort would be if Sony included a card with your camera purchase that said, "If you like your new camera, tell your friends!" And then if I honestly liked their camera, I told my friends, "Hey check out my new camera! Isn't it cool?"

I think what both campaigns are doing is more similar to the latter scenario than the former. The campaigns themselves are not out there spamming blogs pretending to be concerned citizens (they be doing that in addition to these efforts we're discussing here but that's beside the point), they're both just asking citizens who share their views to express them. Asking people who like things you do to honestly communicate them to others sounds to me like the way the democratic process should work, and does not ring of a nefarious scheme in my opinion.

Re:Am I missing something?

[rtechie]

Repealing the tax on imported ethanol will cause an increase in ethanol production overseas which will increase the cost of food as grain is diverted to ethanol production. You can have lower food costs or you can have ethanol, NOT BOTH.

Brazil does not generate enough of a surplus to meet the US' energy needs, they would have to dramatically increase production. You can only produce ethanol efficiently in tropical countries using sugarcane because in tropical countries you have the enviroment necessary to produce extremely water-intensive high-energy crops like sugarcane. Really, the only places you can efficiently do it are Brazil, the Congo, and maybe Southeast Asia. So before we seriously consider ethanol we have to fix Congo, Burma, etc. and convince them to grow huge amounts of sugarcane.

Switchgrass and other claimed efficent ethanol crops won't work, and basic physics would tell you that. Anything in the USA is right out due to climate. People really need to learn about "potential energy" and "energy density" before talking about energy policy.

Re:Am I missing something?

[Actually, I do RTFA]

You can have lower food costs or you can have ethanol, NOT BOTH.

Three problems with that statement. 1) Fuel prices are one of the biggest costs in food production. 2) The price of foreign sugar is not a component in US food costs, it's already not used because it's too expensive due to a sugar tariff. 3) Right now we are using corn to make ethanol. If we use sugar to make ethanol (its more efficent), and corn syrup as a sweetener (more efficent), we are better off than the status quo. So both prices drop from the current price point.

One other point you seem to miss is that neither food or fuel operates under the free market.

Re:Am I missing something?

[rtechie]

1) Fuel prices are one of the biggest costs in food production

True.

2) The price of foreign sugar is not a component in US food costs, it's already not used because it's too expensive due to a sugar tariff.

The sugar tariff and corn subsidies drive up US food prices. McCain is talking about eliminating the tariff and possibly corn subsidies.

3) Right now we are using corn to make ethanol. If we use sugar to make ethanol (its more efficent), and corn syrup as a sweetener (more efficent), we are better off than the status quo.

Wrong, if we switched ENTIRELY to sugar (grown in tropical climates) for food and eliminated 90% of corn production we'd be much better off than the status quo.

Ethanol is complete snake-oil for solving the world energy problems, which INCLUDES solving pollution problems. Replacing oil, which creates lots of pollution, with ethanol, which produces EVEN MORE pollution, is not a solution. Yes, ethanol is "cleaner burning" than oil. But it's less energy dense than gasoline to the point where you need to burn at least 2X as much ethanol to generate the same energy as gasoline, which ends up generating more pollution.

And we simply can't make enough of it to meet demand. As I said, sugar is the only practical ethanol crop and we're just about tapped out on sugar as it is. Switching to sugar means massively expanded growing in the areas sugar grows well, like South America, Central Africa, Indonesia, and Southeast Asia. Good luck with that.

Here's mine

[Anonymous Coward]

McCain smells like the rotten cheese he has for a brain.

Oh man, too easy...

[SatanicPuppy]

The trolls just write themselves...I'll attempt to rise above.

Still, it's pretty damn pathetic when you can't trust your supporters to express their own opinions to the point where you have to give them your opinions to reprint.

Ah fuck it. Lets burn some karma..."I guess all his supporters are too senile to remember what he stands for?" or maybe "He flip-flops so often that it's safer if they just cut and paste?" Maybe "Since most of his supporters are illiterate, it's the only way they can meaningfully contribute. Coming next month, a McDonalds-style interface with pictures of common attack points (a flat tire, little back guy in diapers, a black playing card, etc)."

I am so sick of "talking points." It just reeks of brand advertising.

Re:Oh man, too easy...

[eln]

I am so sick of "talking points." It just reeks of brand advertising.

Modern politics is all about brand advertising. Nobody really wants a serious discussion of the issues, least of all the candidates. You tell your base what they want to hear, you demonize your opponent in hopes of demoralizing his base, and you get your people to drive your supporters to the polls while trying to disenfranchise your opponent's supporters. If all else fails, you throw some ballot boxes into a river.

The whole idea is doing whatever is necessary to get more people to vote for you than for the other guy. Glitzy advertising that paints you as a hero of the working man and your opponent as a clown (or demon) who will single-handedly destroy the country is a key part of the package. Serious discourse has no place in such an environment.

On top of that, now you have the Internet to deal with. In this case, the more parrots you have mindlessly regurgitating your talking points on blogs and various forums, the better. It's like the hot chicks at the bar that invite you to hang out with them and offer you some expensive name brand liquor. It's viral advertising, and if it can be used to sell booze, why can't it be used to sell candidates?

Sure, the whole thing is sleazy, but that's politics for you.

Re:Oh man, too easy...

[Chyeld]

Given it seems everytime he sends out his talking heads to drum up support for him, they espouse opinions contrary to his platform (ok, not everytime I'm sure, but it hits the press I read often enough). I'd say he needs talking points.

Me, I'm waiting to see what Paris has to say.

Re:Oh man, too easy...

[hey!]

I don't think it's quite so simple.

People aren't sheep or parrots, but they do have possess cognitive biases and flaws -- bugs in the epistemological software if you will. One of which is that if you hear the same thing from multiple, apparently independent sources, you will tend to believe it provided you have no prior opinion or more credible source of information to the contrary.

But even though that is a timeworn strategy, it isn't sure fire.

Look at the McCain's forays into attack ads. In part, they've been poorly conceived and timed. The Paris Hilton thing might have worked as the final smack down in a long patient campaign to cut him down to size. But it was over the top. People know campaigns say bad things about the other guy, so you've got to start smaller.

Another factor is who you have to work against. People don't pay much attention to politics until it gets close to the time to vote. Nature abhors a vacuum, and you fill that vacuum with beliefs about the other guy. It worked with Gore and Kerry, but not with Clinton because of Clinton's charismatic personality. As a liberal Democrat, I'm lukewarm on Bill Clinton, in theory at least. Still I remember seeing him interviewed on TV a few years after he was out of office, and being amazed at his almost mesmeric powers of communication.

Reagan was like that too; maybe even more so. You had to really detest the man to be immune to his charm.

Time will tell, but I have an inkling Obama might be another politician of this sort. The McCain campaign is trying to define him, and the pundits are trying to turn him into a cipher, but if you watch him, what comes across is that he is completely comfortable with and utterly sure of who he is. Which doesn't preclude him being a cipher, of course, but that's not the same as being vacuum.

Re:Oh man, too easy...

[porpnorber]

At the end of the day, the thing that is broken about contemporary America is precisely this "do whatever is necessary" meme. Why is winning better than sportsmanship? Why should conservatives vote Republican even if the Republicans plan to destroy the economy? Shouldn't civilised people prefer to be able to sleep at night? Ultimately, isn't that what civilisation is?

It makes no sense, but nobody wants to admit it.

Re:Oh man, too easy...

[Anonymous Coward]

Nobody really wants a serious discussion of the issues, least of all the candidates.

Ron Paul wanted to talk about at least SOME issues. Like the money.

Re:Oh man, too easy...

[Anonymous Coward]

What bars do you go to, and how can I get invited?

Re:Oh man, too easy...

[dangitman]

But even though that is a timeworn strategy, it isn't sure fire.

He has a timeworm? I think that's pretty unbeatable.

Re:Oh man, too easy...

[dangitman]

Why is winning better than sportsmanship?

Uhhh... because you win?

Re:Oh man, too easy...

[eoinmadden]

Because politics is becoming more tribal. Why? Because it is easier to be tribal than to consider the issues.

Re:Oh man, too easy...

[porpnorber]

But if you cheated, you didn't win. You are lying and saying that you won, sure, but you could do that with much less effort than, say, by playing the game! (So perhaps I should have said "'winning'"....)

Re:Oh man, too easy...

[porpnorber]

But then the job isn't being done. Why isn't everyone resisting the tribalism and saying, dudes, we're paying you to do a job!

I understand that there is local motivation for an individual to cheat, at least where what they are competing for is not in some sense honour; but why does society honour cheats? Why vote for someone who is not considering the issues? How do you, the voter, gain by this?

Happy Happy John John

[Anonymous Coward]

John McCain, he's not just an angrier more bitter Bob Dole.

Re:Happy Happy John John

[Anonymous Coward]

John McCain, he's not just an angrier more bitter Bob Dole.

But like Dole, McCain will ultimately prove to suffer from electile dysfunction.

Re:Happy Happy John John

[Anonymous Coward]

Shit! That's the funniest thing I've heard all day!

Re:first!

[sudo]

you have enough points for a McCain 2008 bumper sticker, a few more points and you can qualify for a McCain 2008 coffee mug

My God, this country is completely screwed

[TheKnightShift]

This is beyond pathetic. To think that a nation that produced the likes of John Adams, Daniel Webster and Oliver Wendell Holmes is now producing "leaders" who not only can not think and speak so articulately, but have to bribe their supporters with swag for copying and pasting soundbites... No, I'm not an Obama supporter either. I don't have a dog in this hunt.

Re:My God, this country is completely screwed

[Chyeld]

I take it you aren't familiar with the history of our Presidential elections. If you were, you'd realize that while it's sad we are still stuck in the same muck raking environment that John Adams and Thomas Jefferson slandered each other under, it's obviously nothing new.

Re:My God, this country is completely screwed

[Anonymous Coward]

I think GP was referring to the fact that the above were rather articulate, and that the people who followed them were expected to be as well.

Of course, at that time you still had to be a white male landowner in order to vote, so I think it's implied that the voters were likely to have certain elements of their background, education, and socioeconomic status in common. Whereas today's voters are much more diverse (and as someone who is not a white male landowner, I'm very glad of that, even though I really wish sometimes that we had a higher level of discourse about these things in general).

Re:My God, this country is completely screwed

[Chyeld]

"I think GP was referring to the fact that the above were rather articulate, and that the people who followed them were expected to be as well."

Around two hundred years have passed between then and now, and all we really remember are the honeyed words. Men were no more articulate then than now, it is simply as time has passed we've no longer are reminded of the times where they bobbled a sentence or two. Instead we've cherry picked the best of their words, the statements that resound in our hearts, and pretend that they must have spoken thusly the entire time.

And if you read some of the 'publications' put out by their respective political groups back then, the only surprise you would likely have when comparing them to today's are how much more nasty people got.

Adams was "old, querulous, Bald, blind, crippled, Toothless Adams", the Republicans he opposed were "the refuse, the sweepings of the most depraved part of mankind from the most corrupt nations on earth"

Fox News would be right at home.

And one only has to lightly peruse the history of the Alien and Sedition acts signed into law by Adams to see a parallel in the government's use of the Patriot act and it's current interpretation of law.

I'm not saying they weren't great men back then. But we've exaggerated their heights through the lens of time. These were not demi-gods. They did not shoot bolts of lighting out of their ass. They were men, wonderfully fallible men who stepped up and guided our nation the best they could.

Re:My God, this country is completely screwed

[rrohbeck]

is now producing "leaders" who not only can not think and speak so articulately

Paris was pretty articulate in her campaign ad.
Surprisingly so I might add.

Re:My God, this country is completely screwed

[The Cydonian]

Men were no more articulate then than now,

Surely, literacy and education levels have increased in the last 200 years? In fact, I'd suspect they didnt exactly have meta-discussions on political discussions like we're having now. :-)

Dupe.

[Anonymous Coward]

http://news.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/06/12/1211204

Re:first!

[Chris Burke]

GIVE ME MONEY PLEASE!!!! *Sticks out hand*

Dude, it doesn't work if you include that in your pre-made rhetoric.

Re:first!

[smittyoneeach]

You only have to query the /. comment database with something like[1]

SELECT COUNT(comment_id)
FROM comments
WHERE comment_text='Frist post'

to know that using a politician's name in a /. thread buys no bounce.
Better to tour Europe instead.

[1] I have never looked at slashcode

Highest karma winner...

[Anonymous Coward]

...gets to run FEMA.

Re:Highest karma winner...

[chris_mahan]

They said "reward".

Now thats reassuring quality campaign !!

[unity100]

give prizes to people to spread spam on your behalf !! now this guy has the makings of a good president.

Re:first!

[HTH NE1]

Slashdot is not in their list of Blog/NewsSites to which you can claim rewards for posting.

You'll need to use a browser that lets you rewrite forms to add Slashdot as a valid response.

Republican supporters vs. Democrat Supporters

[Anonymous Coward]

The reason for them doing this is because Democratic supporters tend to be a lot more vocal about their support compared to Republican supporters. This may be anecdotal, but for the sites I view, I see way more Obama supporters spouting out campaign rhetoric compared to McCain supporters. At the same time, all the national polls I see have the two in a virtual dead heat. Why are we seeing more people screaming their support for Obama? The RNC has noticed this, and is trying to light a fire under the Republican supporters in order to get them screaming just as loudly for McCain.

It's probably about the demographic. Republicans tend to be older, quiet, "don't rock the boat" types who don't give a shit about anything that doesn't concern them. Democrats tend to be young, vocal, "Change NOW!" types who feel that society as a whole needs to better function. It makes sense.

Re:Republican supporters vs. Democrat Supporters

[Anonymous Coward]

I suspect that while many Republicans will be voting for McCain, they are not particularly enthusiastic about him.

You are mostly right about the demographics: Republicans do tend to just want to be left alone, which is not something which needs lots of verbiage, whereas Democrats' control freakery needs lots of screaming.

Re:Republican supporters vs. Democrat Supporters

[halivar]

You hit the nail on the head. It's why we call them "conservatives" and "progressives," in the most non-derogatory senses of the terms.

Re:Republican supporters vs. Democrat Supporters

[eln]

Republicans do tend to just want to be left alone

Explain "social conservatives" then (aka the Republican base). Or is it that they want to be left alone, but they still want to control everyone else?

I think most of the people that truly just want to be left alone call themselves Libertarians these days.

Re:Republican supporters vs. Democrat Supporters

[Weasel Boy]

Looks to me like about 9 out of 10 current national polls have Obama in the lead with an average advantage of 3.6%. I wouldn't call that a virtual dead heat. It might be within the statistical margin of error, but if I were McC, I'd still be sweating.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/national.html

Re:Republican supporters vs. Democrat Supporters

[that this is not und]

Social Conservatives are NOT the Republican Base. That ended awhile ago. Didn't you notice who's winning the nomination? Hint: he's no social conservative.

Most people who truly want to be left alone don't call themselves anything. I mean, get a clue.

Re:Republican supporters vs. Democrat Supporters

[Dhalka226]

A quote from West Wing that I've always particularly liked: "Republicans want to make government just small enough to fit inside our bedrooms."

Re:Republican supporters vs. Democrat Supporters

[moosesocks]

I think most of the people that truly just want to be left alone call themselves Libertarians these days.

No. That's the States' Rights crowd.

Ron Paul sure as heck isn't a Libertarian in the traditional sense of the word. He wants more power for Texas, and is very forthcoming about this opinion.

Re:Republican supporters vs. Democrat Supporters

[wiggles]

placeholder in place

And we should vote for him over the other guy why?

[mcmonkey]

Considering one of McCain's selling point is supposed to be experience, why does his campaign keep making rookie mistakes?

He repeatedly mentions his opponent by name in speeches and on his web site (why give the other guy free publicity?), he refers to the border between two countries which don't border each other, and now this.

It's not stupid because it isn't done, it's stupid because people will do it anyway. Supporters (not just McCain's) will cut-and-paste talking points from the candidate on their own. A program like this just makes them, and him, look like idiots.

Yeah? Well...

[Jane Q. Public]

... most young people smell like wet diapers that have been further soiled by their shit-for-brains.

Really. You think a 20-year-old bricklayer smells BETTER at the end of the day than talcum powder? Man, you live a sheltered life.

Neither of Them Deserve to Be President

[Greyfox]

I was going to go for a funny comment off that page but I'm feeling a bit more irritable today. McCain and Obama are not being honest with the American people WRT oil prices. The simple fact of the matter is that the world can not support 350 million Americans, 1 billion Chinese and 1 billion Indians all who want to drive automobiles. Offshore drilling will not help oil prices. Keeping your tires inflated will not help oil prices. Any long term solution that involves everyone keeping their cars and driving every day will not work.

The simple fact of the matter is that Some Americans will no longer be able to afford to own and operate an automobile. That process has already started. People are on the news saying "I can't afford to put gas in my car to commute to work." It's only going to get worse as gasoline gets more expensive. We might see the price of a gallon of gas bump down a little over the coming years, but the general trend is going to be up. If you're having trouble paying for gas now, you should start planning to not own an automobile in the future. America needs better public transit options and tighter knit communities, because a lot more of us are not going to be driving in the future.

Of course Obama and McCain won't say that. It'd be political suicide. Unfortunately we don't need political grandstanding right now. We need sensible planning for a future where Americans are less affluent and have lower expectations than they did in the past.

Re:Neither of Them Deserve to Be President

[Anonymous Coward]

You are remarkably short sighted my friend. Let's live in the world of yesterday today!

It's always good to assume there are no other sources of energy and that gasoline will always be the one and only fuel for cars.

Re:Neither of Them Deserve to Be President

[wifeshack]

It's naive to think that neither candidate understands this- right now they're just trying to get elected. McCain's pandering to the lowest common denominator (drill more!) and now Obama's resorted to a similar tactic after watching his numbers slip. Give it a few years, people will figure it out eventually. Hopefully.

Re:Neither of Them Deserve to Be President

[Rayonic]

Some Americans will no longer be able to afford to own and operate an automobile. That process has already started. People are on the news saying "I can't afford to put gas in my car to commute to work."

Well if you heard people say it on the news, then it must be true.

Anecdotes = Data.

Re:Neither of Them Deserve to Be President

[that this is not und]

America needs better public transit options and tighter knit communities, because a lot more of us...

You misspelled 'crowded highrise apartments on the light rail corridor.'

We need sensible planning for a future where

You misspelled 'central planning.'

Isn't there a Politbureau meeting you're supposed to be attending??

Re:Neither of Them Deserve to Be President

[khallow]

Best election in decades and the "peak oil" people can't be satisfied since as usual, they aren't being taken seriously. As I see it, humanity will find a better standard of living than today that doesn't require everyone to have the current resource consumption of today's US residents. It might be helpful to have government involved, I don't know. But as long as it is a gradual affair, we'll naturally figure out how to do it.

Re:Neither of Them Deserve to Be President

[eoinmadden]

Why is "planning" considered a bad word? Why is investment in public transport considered akin to socialism but investment in roads considered not?

Re:Neither of Them Deserve to Be President

[that this is not und]

There's nothing wrong with planning your own life.

It's when you start trying to plan other people's lives.

Re:Neither of Them Deserve to Be President

[mvdwege]

Answer the question. Why is planning roads 'planning your own life' and planning public transport 'planning other people's lives'?

Mart

ooh! I know!

[jollyreaper]

"Are you better off now than you were 8 years ago?"

JOHN MCCAIN
(picture of him embracing George Bush) http://www.thewashingtonnote.com/archives/mccain%20bush%20hug%20twn.jpg

"Four more years!"

Re:ooh! I know!

[Anonymous Coward]

All their arguments against gay marriage just died there.

Re:ooh! I know!

[Anonymous Coward]

It's simple really.....

Want more pain, vote McCain.

Re:ooh! I know!

[Anonymous Coward]

I find it incredible that a candidate embracing the current president actually has a negative impact on his campaign. Anybody have a stat on how often that's happened?

Prior Art

[Nymz]

Rewarding people with points, for desired comments, has been going on publicly for years. Just look at Slashdot.

• The dozen or so editors choose what topics we will talk about.
• They have unlimited moderation points, up and down.
• All you can get here is Karma (whooptie-do), at least Obama gives out a free lunch or diner.

Re:Prior Art

[Anonymous Coward]

A free diner? I would take one of those!

Re:Prior Art

[Nymz]

I went to the Slashdot gathering, and all I got was this OMG Pwnies t-shirt

Re:Prior Art

[jez9999]

All you can get here is Karma (whooptie-do), at least Obama gives out a free lunch or diner.

Wow, he's more generous than I thought! Where do I get my free diner? I can sell the building alone for $100,000!

I have one

[kpainter]

I think it would go over really well to say "My Friends" a lot. That makes everybody think you are telling them the truth.

Re:I have one

[Chyeld]

My friend. I do believe you have a point. However, you also need to remember that we are a team. It's not about you or I, but that we have a vision. We can see a better tomorrow. A better tomorrow though Paris Hilton, the greater arbitrator.

Obamaniacs?

[AioKits]

It's time for Obamaniacs
And we're zany to the max
So just sit back and relax
You'll laugh 'til you collapse
We're obamaniacs!

Someone finish the lyrics? I'm too tired...

Re:Obamaniacs?

[Chyeld]

What are you going to do? When the Obamania runs wild on YOU!

Re:Obamaniacs?

[everphilski]

(forgive me, Warner Brothers, and the Warner Sister, Dot)

Come join the Obama Brothers,
And the Obama Sister, Michelle
Just for fun we travel round
europe and the middle east, oh well
They lock us in the tower whenever we get caught
Then we break loose and then vamoose
and now you know the plot

We're ob-aman-iacs
Dott is cute and Yakko yaks
Wakko cracks away the snacks while Bill Clinton plays the sax
We're O-ba-man-iacs

Meet Barack and his VP who want to rule the universe
McCain and Rick Davis plot together Reporters whacks them with their purse
Congress is on vacation while Pelosi tries to sell her book
We write a script we had a script why bother to rehearse

We're Obamaniacs
We get payed for played contracts
We're zany to the max
there's baloney in our slacks
We're Obamany
totally insaney
(Here's a show that's maney)

An-i-mani-acs
Those are the facts

Re:Obamaniacs?

[Captain Spam]

*shrug* All right. I might smear a few beats and horribly mangle the concept of "song", but remember, you asked for it...

We are Obamamaniacs
We're devoted to the max
So just sit back and relax
We'll roll back breaks on income tax
Obamamaniacs!

Come, join the campaign tour bus
And the online grassroots crew
There's comprehensive healthcare
And it might appeal to you
He's running to the White House
He probably won't be caught
Then he'll kick back
Indulge in slack
And now you know the plot!

Obamamaniacs!
Foreign policy has been lax
We'll work to stop attacks
While Bill Clinton plays the sax
Obamamaniacs!

Meet Hillary supporters, they're disgruntled as can be
At least we are not going to stand against Mike Huckabee
Ron Paul's been rejected
Nader's waiting in the wings
We'll take no pause to think because
Our man's the hottest thing!

Obamamaniacs!
We don't care about the tax!
Devoted to the max
Ignoring policies he lacks

Obamamanie
Totally insaney
(He's not McCainey)
Obamananiacs!
Those are the facts!

(note, of course, I'm not quite an Obamamaniac, but the song was too tempting to pass up)

It's marketing

[HalAtWork]

They just make shit up so you feel good now and have remorse after you hand over your money/dignity/whatever.

I don't know...

[Anonymous Coward]

His $0.10 titanium tax doesn't go too far enough! Also, how will he guarantee enough brain slugs for everyone? Right now, they barely have enough to keep the Republican party alive! What will they do to guarantee our independence from foreign brain slugs? And they're definitely not doing enough to protect our right to own Doomsday Devices!

I'm mad enough that I might register with the Apathy party, but I can't be bothered. Besides, everyone knows that the Hypnobama will win this election.

All hail the Hypnobama!

Re:I don't know...

[keytoe]

And they're definitely not doing enough to protect our right to own Doomsday Devices!

Farnsworth: "Damn straight! Today the mad scientist can't get a doomsday device, tomorrow it's the mad grad student! Where will it end?!"

NRA Guy: "Amen, brother. I don't go anywhere without my mutated anthrax. For duck huntin'."

Re:I don't know...

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm mad enough that I might register with the Apathy party, but I can't be bothered.

Welcome aboard, brother!

Re:I don't know...

[Anonymous Coward]

GLORY TO THE HYPNOBAMA!

I'm not saying McCain's out of touch....

[pak9rabid]

...but he thinks Bluetooth is a tooth disease.

Re:I'm not saying McCain's out of touch....

[The Angry Mick]

Loved the Paris Hilton quote:

He's old enough to remember when dancing was a sin!"

Re:I'm not saying McCain's out of touch....

[lordofwhee]

That's an actual Paris Hilton quote?

Well, fuck, maybe she SHOULD run for president.

Re:I'm not saying McCain's out of touch....

[Chyeld]

You should probably see this...

Re:I'm not saying McCain's out of touch....

[ErikZ]

I've seen a lot of people say that, too bad she's too young to run.

Yes!

[RyanFenton]

I could REALLY use one of those tire gauges!

Here goes (Stephen Colbert style):

McCain - he's hip! (at least none broken yet)
McCain - he's got the energy to fix this country! (who better than the Maverick who had a hand in breaking things, but I'm sure it was all under protest.)
McCain - Experience to lead, experience where it matters! (He knows how to cover his mistakes, and where others have their sins buried)
McCain - Because Obama would raise taxes on real Americans! (The super rich face such horrible burdens already - they're the realest Americans!)
McCain - He won't compromise our national security! (It's not the damn president's job to negotiate peace with UnAmericans)
McCain - He's earned our respect, he's the leader we deserve now! (Certainly the change we deserve - stay the course! Four more years!)

Ryan Fenton

Yes, because our Lord and Saviour Obama

[everphilski]

would never astroturf

(go ahead, read the article and google the name "Nikki E Sutton" ... she's a campaign worker for the Obama campaign.)

Re:Yes, because our Lord and Saviour Obama

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, because we can all trust news from the Talking Points Memo. Hey, I know, post some stuff from the Drudge Report. That sure will preach to everybody who isn't the choir!

Re:Yes, because our Lord and Saviour Obama

[Anonymous Coward]

I loled at ", my sentences usually run on and I use comas without reason or meaning."

Yes, that's the problem with the current generation - always misusing comas. Don't even get me started about all the run on seizures in their writing...

Revision Control

[tobiah]

Good point about the flip-flopping. It seems important they use some form of version control for the talking points, to make sure they don't undercut the current positions. Wonder if the bloggers are up to the challenge.

Going back to the original story, maybe this script to identify blogs speaking from the script could be modified to identify which version they're using...

Re:Revision Control

[cube135]

Grep: 1, McCain: 0?

Not Offtopic

[Icarus1919]

This poster is simply making a point that Obama has up talking points available on his website. Admittedly though, there is no rewards program.

Re:Not Offtopic

[MrMr]

Yes there is. If he wins you don't get McCain for four years.

Well that's an improvemnt over the current guy

[EmbeddedJanitor]

Rotten cheese probably supports life.

Re:Well that's an improvemnt over the current guy

[Anonymous Coward]

McCain is pro-life too. Am I missing something here?

all you got was a bus ride to indiana?

[alta]

Bah, I posted a lot. I got an iPod! It had recordings of all of McCains speaches on it!

Re:all you got was a bus ride to indiana?

[Killjoy_NL]

So full of bad sectors eh? ;)

No McPoint for You!

[tobiah]

It's post like this that lead to canned scripts. At least provide a link to your supposed, "Gravitas" ;-)

Re:No McPoint for You!

[Charles Wilson]

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_113007/content/01125114.guest.html

Re:So, he's basically doing...

[RingDev]

As much as I wish that was true, I have never managed to get my hands on a widely distributed talking points memo for the Democrat party. If you know of an organization that distributes such talking points, please post it, I'd be interested in finding out what political mantra they would have people saying these days.

-Rick

WcCain Considers Public His Troll Army

[Doc Ruby]

When the John WcCain campaign turns to the current wave of "open sourcing" movements, spurred by Internet culture, what he thinks you're good for is free astroturfing labor.

If you're not getting a check for that kind of work, you're nothing but a hypocrite posing as a "Conservative".

If you are getting a check for that kind of work, you're nothing but a sockpuppet posing as a "Conservative".

All aboard the Straight Talk Express trainwreck!

Re:WcCain Considers Public His Troll Army

[Doc Ruby]

Moderation -1
    70% Troll
    30% Underrated

Explain where WcCain gets his troll army from, and an army of TrollMods attacks!

But what's Paris Hilton offering?

[Anonymous Coward]

Really, I'd repeat anything she asks me too if the "prize" was right.

So what?

[EmbeddedJanitor]

Why the hell should every American be able to afford an automobile?

Most Americans are better off than they were 50 years ago. Just most Americans have forgotten how to be frugal and now impulse buy all kinds of crap on credit cards then wonder why they're screwed when the credit card bills roll in.

Re:So what?

[ChromeAeonium]

Why the hell should working class Americans be able to afford an automobile?

That's why. We have to eat, and get to work, too, and to do that, it must be affordable. Damn near everyone who says that either doesn't need a car to get where they need to go or can afford their cars (relatively) easier than others. Try seeing all the aspects next time.

Re:So what?

[eoinmadden]

If you had decent public transport you'd have less need for cars. But some reason investment in public transport is deemed "socialism" and investment in roads is deemed "progress".

Re:So what?

[Anonymous Coward]

You're right, Americans are ridiculously wealthy and should go back to being serfs.

You first.

Close, but...

[RingDev]

The simple fact of the matter is that Some Americans will no longer be able to afford to own and operate an Internal Combustion Engine powered automobile.

Fixed. There is a finite amount of all resources on this planet, so you are correct that at some point, not everyone is going to be able to do everything they currently take for granted. And transportation is going to go through some 'exciting' times in the near future. But the immediate impact is not going to dramatically change the life style of the vast majority of Americans.

-Rick

Re:first!

[BPPG]

Or, deposit the points to enter the raffle, where the grand prize is a John McCain 1962 AC Cobra with a V8 engine.

McSame

[Anonymous Coward]

Giving people pre-vetted comments to post (for a reward) doesn't help dispel the nickname.

let me correct that for you

[CdBee]

"some americans won't be able to afford a hydrocarbon-fuelled motor vehicle'

Unlike Europeans like me, you guys have the space for solar, nuclear and wind power on an epic scale, and the science and industry to do electric cars well

Re:let me correct that for you

[that this is not und]

France has done a good job of proving that you don't need a lot of space to have efficient well-run nuclear power plants.

And Europe in general has done a pretty darn good job of shrinking the automobile to make it affordable. Here in the US we just need to kick the shit out of Detroit a little longer to try to drive some sense into them.

Wow!

[Reverend Darkness]

... because we all know no Democrat would EVAH do such a thing! ( casting my "+2 Rolled Eyes of Sarcasm" )

McCain for President

[fermion]

My Freely offered Blog entry. Copy as you see fit. I need no rewards.

I admit it is a bit over the op, but if we are in a world where millions of dollars can be spent comparing a magna cum laude Havard Graduate to Paris Hiton, anything goes.

McCain was not born in the US but is considered a US citizen anyway, unlike many who are born in the US that the republican party wants to consider foreign.

As a proud third generation employee of the government, McCain is uniquely experienced to be president. His third generation military status uniquely places him to find the best government military solutions for every problem, without the distractions of diplomacy or allowing the free market to work. Like the current president, he entered higher education on a legacy, thus putting him in touch with the problems of the elite he represents. Also like the current president, he has a storied military carreer, flying planes around the world. At one point his plane got shot down and he no longer flew planes, but was kept in a POW camp. He was tortured for some time during the captivity. This experience wad apparently not bad enough to make him unconditionally opposed to torture.

He also has a unique perspective on government medical care. As a third generation government employee, he has spent his entire life with free access to the government medical facilities. Although he is 71, and claims to be in good health, he experience has shown him that government medical care is not good enough for the general populous, so is absolutely opposed to it.

Some might think a third generation government employee may not be the best president for a country based on free enterprise, but wait. His second wife, whom he married soon after divorcing his first wife, is the chair of one of the largest beer distributors in the country. As such, McCain has experience with the perks of the corporate life, like luxury corporate jets, which he used to ferry himself between campaign stops during his bid to become president. He understands the compromises that must be made when growing a business, like how many alcohol related teen deaths are acceptable to maintain a certain profit margin.

As we can see McCain is uniquely qualified to understand the needs of the nation. The military can solve all problems. The health care system that has kept him so healthy is not adequate of capable of doing the same for the masses. American Corporations has special problems and must be given significant leeway in their right to earn a profit.

Re:McCain for President

[Anonymous Coward]

Absolutely perfect post.. It makes me realize how underqualified and underachieving Obama is compared to McCain.

Focus on McCain's experience to expose the huge void on Obama's side.

Thank you fermion for showing me how we should all be voting for McCain now.

Re:McCain for President

[zummit]

Some might think a third generation government employee may not be the best president for a country based on free enterprise, but wait. His second wife, whom he married soon after divorcing his first wife, is the chair of one of the largest beer distributors in the country. As such, McCain has experience with the perks of the corporate life, like luxury corporate jets, which he used to ferry himself between campaign stops during his bid to become president. He understands the compromises that must be made when growing a business, like how many alcohol related teen deaths are acceptable to maintain a certain profit margin.

http://drugdealercindy.com/cindy-mcain-drug-dealer.php

Obama is smart enough to not tell the truth..

[jayveekay]

As you point out, to tell the truth would virtually guarantee the truth teller a loss in the election. The American people don't want to be told that things will get worse. They want to be lied to about how they can have cheap gas, low taxes, universal (but not zomg socialized!) health care, and a socially secured retirement at no cost. Whenever anything goes wrong, tell everyone they can blame it on "Washington Insiders", "Evil Corporations", or "Foreigners".

Obama knows that none of this is possible. He's a successful politician, and successful politicians get where they are by lying to people. Obama is smart enough to know when to avoid telling the truth and/or lie.

McCain is a liar too, as he is also a successful politician. They are more alike than you think. Obama is much smarter than McCain, however. So if you have to pick one of these two to be President, Obama is the better choice as he will screw up less once he is elected. Hint: Morons don't make good presidents.

Re:Obama is smart enough to not tell the truth..

[StopKoolaidPoliticsT]

McCain is a liar too, as he is also a successful politician. They are more alike than you think. Obama is much smarter than McCain, however. So if you have to pick one of these two to be President, Obama is the better choice as he will screw up less once he is elected. Hint: Morons don't make good presidents.

And Hans Reiser was so much smarter than everyone, he could get away with killing his wife. Smart people can do stupid things too, especially if they're convinced they're smarter than everyone else. Intelligence and wisdom aren't the same thing... anyone who has played D&D knows that.

Re:Obama is smart enough to not tell the truth..

[Anonymous Coward]

Obama is much smarter than McCain, however.

Oh really? I take it you haven't read Obama's Blueprint for <strike>America</strike> change. He thinks the solution for everything is more government spending AND more government handouts. I hope your future children want mandatory service in Peace Corps. Obama will leave a wide mess behind if his changes take place.

http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/ObamaBlueprintForChange.pdf

Re:Obama is smart enough to not tell the truth..

[roman_mir]

They want to be lied to about how they can have cheap gas, low taxes, universal (but not zomg socialized!)

- I live in Canada, I have the zomg socialized! health care. How come for the past 5 months I've been more times to Buffalo and Rochester (NY) then to the doctors here with my wife? Why does it take months and months and months to get appointments, to get any testing done and to see a specialist? Why can I get all those things within 2-3 days if I set up an appointment in NY? I am paying the high Canadian taxes and yet I end up paying Buffalo Medical Group and Rochester Memorial Hospital bills because if I don't, my and/or my wife asses are toast.

Be careful what you wish for.

Re:Obama is smart enough to not tell the truth..

[jayveekay]

You are confusing what he *says* he will do (the plan you linked) with what he will *actually* do as president. Did you not read the parent where we explained that successful politicians will lie to get elected?

I just love it when U.S. politicians promise to "end dependendence on foreign oil". I'm not certain which I find more amusing, their "plans" or the gullible U.S. public taking them seriously.

Re:Obama is smart enough to not tell the truth..

[jayveekay]

As a Canadian who has lived in the U.S. for a decade, I have experience with both health care systems. I experienced 6 month waits to get referals to specialists in Canada, so I'm familiar with the delays you reference. With my excellent employer provided health care in the U.S., I am much better served. I needed elective knee surgery and there was zero waiting, I could get it done within a week.

The lesson is: If you have money, you will receive faster care in the U.S than in Canada. If you're "working poor" in the U.S., then you're worse off than you would be in Canada. I think basic medical care should be available to all, having 40 million Americans with no coverage (many of them children) seems cruel to me.

I see the weaknesses in both systems, I don't wish for either.

Re:Obama is smart enough to not tell the truth..

[Anonymous Coward]

Obama is much less impulsive than McCain, however

There, fixed for you. Also

Morons don't make good presidents

probably implies current president. More fitting for McCain would probably be "A good president should not be overly emotional."

Re:Obama is smart enough to not tell the truth..

[Abcd1234]

Why does it take months and months and months to get appointments, to get any testing done and to see a specialist?

Because in Canada, health resources are rationed by need, not by income.

Which you're likely prefer depends largely on how much money you have.

'course, it doesn't help that the Ontario healthcare system may itself be broken (what you glossed over is that healthcare in Canada is a provincial service, and believe it or not, not all systems suck... the one here in Alberta ain't that bad, overall).

Re:Obama is smart enough to not tell the truth..

[Tejin]

I see your anecdote and raise you one of my own. I've walked into outpatients at 3pm, had the problem identified and surgery performed to fix it and was on my way home at 9pm. I've never waited more than a month for an appointment, and when my doctor recommended a specialist I got an appointment within two weeks.

Re:Obama is smart enough to not tell the truth..

[roman_mir]

Just be happy you're not a chick in need of a professional gynecologist, not an obstetrician but a gynecologist. Also be happy that it was something that could be identified immediately and did not require you to wait months and months for testing, waiting that could lead to a non-treatable cancer, like in case of a bunch of people who I USED to know.

Re:Obama is smart enough to not tell the truth..

[Anonymous Coward]

Like any system Canada's healthcare has its good and bad points. Don't take advantage of the good and complain about the bad. If its that much of a problem for you people then why don't you and your wife move to the US? You'll have gyneologists coming out of your yin-yan (no pun intended :))

Re:Obama is smart enough to not tell the truth..

[mvdwege]

Maybe this is because some problems are quite simply not urgent, and making sure they have the same response time as urgent problems would cost an inordinate amount of money.

Politicians in the Netherlands also like to make a talking point about waiting lists in order to further demolish our health care system. Guess what? Most of the waiting lists they whine about are for non-life-threatening ailments.

You guys that whine about a few months of waiting remind me of the middle managers who want their mailbox quota increased ASAP, and their request treated like a priority-1 incident, instead of just moving their email to an off-line location. You're both lusers.

Mart

Re:Obama is smart enough to not tell the truth..

[roman_mir]

Tell it to my neighbor, she died because the brain tumor she had was apparently 'not a priority'. Her tests were scheduled 6 months into the future, by the time she got the scan it was already too late. She died 3 months later. Tell it to my wife, who waits for 6-9 months for an appointment with a gynecologist. By the time she gets an appointment, she could give birth already. But the point is that she had an ectopic situation and even after that they wouldn't schedule to see her earlier than 9! months. Thus we go where we can pay and get results immediately. These may or may not be life threatening situations. Nobody knows until they are properly diagnosed.

Re:Obama is smart enough to not tell the truth..

[mvdwege]

Anecdote <> Data.

Mart

Re:Obama is smart enough to not tell the truth..

[roman_mir]

What is an 'anecdote' to you, to us is life, that's why we go to NY to get immediate medical attention.

Re:Obama is smart enough to not tell the truth..

[Anonymous Coward]

Just move there permanently. DUH!

not THAT bad

[ILuvRamen]

This is still better than people left to their own BS, which as we now know is posting/e-mailing that Obama is a muslim and Michelle called Rick Astley "whitey" (hehehe I may have that a little wrong) and all that other made up BS about Obama. I'd rather have cookie cutter, slightly more true BS floating around. Btw I'm independent and hate Obama a lot and McCain almost as much so yes, this post was sort of unbiased.

Re:not THAT bad

[Anonymous Coward]

Btw I'm independent and hate Obama a lot and McCain almost as much so yes, this post was sort of unbiased.

I hope you're either a) joking or b) not under the impression that disliking two things equally is some how "unbiased"...

It seems to me

[hey!]

that the McCain campaign hasn't quite adapted to the changes technology has made in politics.

It isn't so much that his campaign lags in exploiting social networking techniques to its advantage. It's more that they haven't grasped the full implications of things like YouTube.

Politicians have always tuned their message to their audience, but in a world of cell phone video cameras and YouTube, your audience is always potentially much greater than the people sitting in front of you. It's important not to actually contradict yourself, and when you get caught contradicting yourself the worst thing you can do is to deny it. The assertion, contradiction and denial make a nice little YouTube vignette. Especially if all three bits are delivered in your trademarked blunt, plainspoken style.

This is probably why the campaign has changed its policy on access. McCain has always be famously accessible to reporters, taking questions for as long as anybody could think of any, spending lot of one on one time. This week they've switched, and now he's only giving scripted statements.

This is more of the same. They're trying to feed their blogosphere partisans the way they feed their mainstream media henchmen, even though (ironically) you have to be a lot more discreet with that sort of thing in the blogosphere.

I'm not saying McCain is necessarily worse than any other politician. Possibly Obama's just a slicker liar. Obama reminds me of Eisenhower, who had the gift of redirecting pointed questions in the direction he wanted the be questioned. For some reason, the television camera simply adores Obama; he's more relaxed and comfortable on camera than Phil Donahue.

But whether or not Obama's the real thing, or the slickest phony in a generation of politicians, McCain has definitely let his ... shall we say strategically tailored representations of the the truth ... show plainly for all to see. This is stuff that would have gone unnoticed ten years ago, or it it was noticed, reported in words rather than shown issuing from the candidate's mouth.

Re:It seems to me

[PopeRatzo]

Possibly Obama's just a slicker liar...For some reason, the television camera simply adores Obama; he's more relaxed and comfortable on camera than Phil Donahue.

Maybe the reason is that he actually is more relaxed and comfortable. When you don't have to sell your soul for a political office, it's much easier to be relaxed.

I think this idea of the McCain Campaign paying trolls to place comments on blogs is reasonable, considering Senator McCain has not yet learned how to "get on the Internet".

Re:It seems to me

[hey!]

Maybe the reason is that he actually is more relaxed and comfortable.

Agreed, by I'm not a jump on the bandwagon type; I like to keep one foot firmly grounded in skepticism.

I think that Obama is rare, dually gifted individual. He's got the intellect to be a professor of Constitutional law, but he also has really strong people skills. Of course he's comfortable. Anybody'd be comfortable if their life experience told them they'd be able to outdebate or persuade most people they deal with. People gifted in only one of these ways aren't uncommon, but there's often a gnawing canker of doubt about whether they're on the right track, or can persuade others that they are.

It doesn't make him "qualified" to be president, but those talents will stand him in good stead if he makes it.

Re:It seems to me

[joshtheitguy]

that the McCain campaign hasn't quite adapted to the changes technology has made in politics.

Obviously, this is the campaign of a man whom doesn't know his ass from computer and publicly acknowledged this fact.

Re:It seems to me

[uniquename72]

It's more that they haven't grasped the full implications of things like YouTube.

I think they're getting it now -- according to the Washington Times, McCain's YouTube channel has beaten Obama's 11 of the last 14 days.

Even if he's just paying people to set around all day and click on his videos, it still makes for a nice statistic. Even if Paris Hilton crushes both of them.

Re:It seems to me

[bckrispi]

It's more that they haven't grasped the full implications of things like YouTube.

They should've learned this lesson two years ago. In 2005, Virginia Senator George Allen was the presumptive presidential front runner for the 2008 election. All it took was one viral video of him saying Macacca to tip his reelection bid to Jim Webb. One video cost him his senate seat, as well as a stab at the White House.

Re:It seems to me

[that this is not und]

Actually, he's relaxed and comfortable. Also a slick liar.

Obama sold his soul to the Chicago Political Machine decades ago. His Justice Department is going to be a hoot.

Re:It seems to me

[that this is not und]

Paris Hilton's response video is a riot, and the people on some of the most conservative blogs are loving it.

Obama better be careful. He's really touchy about not being taken seriously. And his big honking ears, too.

Re:It seems to me

[PopeRatzo]

Obama sold his soul to the Chicago Political Machine decades ago.

You don't have a clue. Next time you're here in Chicago, come see me. I'll buy you lunch in the diner on Washington St. around the corner from City Hall and introduce you to some people who will, I guarantee, that Obama absolutely did not "sell his soul to the Chicago Political Machine". In fact, they are still pissed about it.

However, they're smart enough to know a real leader when they see one, so they actually either got out of the way or lent a hand to Barack's work here in town.

I can also introduce you to some of Obama's former colleagues at the Univ of Chicago Law School who, I guarantee, can convince you that Obama's grasp of and love for the Constitution is so strong, so deep, and that his administrative skills are so tight, that his Justice Department will be one of the best. At least as long as he can purge the Monica Goodling political operatives that were put on the job after they signed loyalty oaths to the Republican Party.

Now that that's out of the way, why don't you go fuck yourself?

Re:It seems to me

[Anonymous Coward]

That's okay; Obama changes the meaning of words faster the Bill Clinton did. I'm impressed; "look" now means "qualified", etc.

Re:It seems to me

[Eli Gottlieb]

I think that Obama is rare, dually gifted individual. He's got the intellect to be a professor of Constitutional law, but he also has really strong people skills.

We're that rare? Maybe I should get out of computing and pursue that childhood dream of becoming President after all!

Or maybe I should go into mad computer science and become a super-villain!

Re:It seems to me

[Anonymous Coward]

I can also introduce you to some of Obama's former colleagues at the Univ of Chicago Law School who, I guarantee, can convince you that Obama's grasp of and love for the Constitution is so strong, so deep, and that his administrative skills are so tight, that his Justice Department will be one of the best.

Voting yes on defacto telecom immunity for warrantless wiretapping shows us something, but I don't think "love for the Constitution" is what we saw.

You can forgive all you like, but don't forget.

Now that that's out of the way, why don't you go fuck yourself?

After that vote, Obama can do the same.

Re:It seems to me

[Anonymous Coward]

I hear about the "community organizing" Obama did. Any examples of people/groups he helped?

Re:It seems to me

[Homer's Donuts]

Paris Hilton displays more sense that either candidate. I'm voting for whichever one offers her the VP slot.

Drill or I'm letting another pound out of my tires!

Re:It seems to me

[amRadioHed]

Judging by the troll rating of your comment, I'd say you failed at the people skills part. Oh well, you can always be vice president.

Re:It seems to me

[amRadioHed]

A lot of people have been visiting it because the ads recently have been so ridiculously bad. Paris Hilton, Britney Spears, and fucking Moses? Please. It's like a car crash, I just had to visit a few times but that doesn't mean it's doing anything to win my vote.

Re:It seems to me

[Anonymous Coward]

It's more that they haven't grasped the full implications of things like YouTube.

So it seems to me, too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlAUj4s6sT0

Re:It seems to me

[lm317t]

Obama sold his soul to the Chicago Political Machine decades ago.

You don't have a clue. Next time you're here in Chicago, come see me. I'll buy you lunch in the diner on Washington St. around the corner from City Hall and introduce you to some people who will, I guarantee, that Obama absolutely did not "sell his soul to the Chicago Political Machine". In fact, they are still pissed about it.

However, they're smart enough to know a real leader when they see one, so they actually either got out of the way or lent a hand to Barack's work here in town.

I can also introduce you to some of Obama's former colleagues at the Univ of Chicago Law School who, I guarantee, can convince you that Obama's grasp of and love for the Constitution is so strong, so deep, and that his administrative skills are so tight, that his Justice Department will be one of the best. At least as long as he can purge the Monica Goodling political operatives that were put on the job after they signed loyalty oaths to the Republican Party.

Now that that's out of the way, why don't you go fuck yourself?

+5 Insightful on a comment like that?

Maybe while he's there you could introduce him to the pastor of the church he joined to gain political points in his district.

Re:It seems to me

[Anonymous Coward]

Ever see a habitual liar in action? They are perfectly comfortable. It is made easier when they ramble endlessly without saying anything.

Re:It seems to me

[Eli Gottlieb]

Yeah, like getting Slashdotters to mod you up counts as people-skills when dealing with normal people. No politician thus far owes his job to the Slashdot crowd, anyway.

Re:It seems to me

[Anonymous Coward]

guess not.

Re:It seems to me

[MikeFM]

Obama just sounds like an idiot when he talks. McCain sounds like a liar. Democracy at work - we get to pick who we want to be our leader.

I'd love to see someone honest and intelligent run for an important office but I know if they did that nobody would vote for them - only extremist sideshow freaks get support.

Republicans know how to win.

[LibertineR]

Say what you will about them, scream bloody murder at their tactics, more often than not, when Republicans want to win a big election, they usually do. Obama has lost momentum, Hillary still has her delegates, and what is Obama doing?

A Hawaiian vacation, bitches!

McCain put out a devastating ad today, quoting only famous Democrats saying good things about him.

Come November, it will probably be McCain taking the oath, and Democrats again, yelling SHENANIGANS from the bleachers.

Re:Republicans know how to win.

[NekSnappa]

Actually the inauguration date is January 20th

Re:Republicans know how to win.

[maxume]

McCain taking the oath in November *would be* shenanigans.

Re:Republicans know how to win.

[nedlohs]

So, either "usually" means something different to you than me, or "big elections" means something different.

Presidential elections I would classify as big, for example. Yet in the last 100 years worth, they're 13 and 12 which would seem to be as close to even as you can get.

So the Republicans didn't want to win those elections? Why would you want to want to win this election over say 1996 - much higher chance of the economy cratering on your watch this time round...

Re:Republicans know how to win.

[Joe the Lesser]

So evil always wins because good is dumb?

Are the Democrats running a sloppy campaign?

[OrangeTide]

No the democrats don't really do this. This points to a fundamental problem with the Democrat party, and explains how they can lose to a chimp for important offices. The Republicans are far more organized and have much slicker campaigns than the Democrats. Providing supporters with as much information as possible to enable them to stay "on message" is just one more example of Republican political savvy.

Re:Are the Democrats running a sloppy campaign?

[Copid]

No the democrats don't really do this. This points to a fundamental problem with the Democrat party, and explains how they can lose to a chimp for important offices. The Republicans are far more organized and have much slicker campaigns than the Democrats. Providing supporters with as much information as possible to enable them to stay "on message" is just one more example of Republican political savvy.

Yes, the Republicans do seem to have an uncanny ability to get otherwise intelligent people to buy into their marketing phrases simply by repeating them until they no longer sound ridiculous.

Re:Are the Democrats running a sloppy campaign?

[Anonymous Coward]

GLOBAL WARMING. GLOBAL WARMING. global warming. global warming? CLIMATE CHANGE. CLIMATE CHANGE. CLIMATE CHANGE.

Okay, 'fess up.

[Anonymous Coward]

Which one of you told McCain about the internet?

Ride on the McCain bus? No thanks. . . .

[scarolan]

I think I'd be afraid to ride on that bus:

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/miami-dade/story/631908.html

It's not about copy-paste

[tobiah]

I think you're right that McCain's site isn't suggesting they copy and paste the comments. The issue here is the rewards system, and perhaps the blog-targetting (specific blogs are listed for users to comment in).
The WP article has some good feedback from politicos on the problems with this approach and possible solutions. In particular that the bloggers should be advised to use full disclosure ("I am a McCain action alert participant") and make sure their posts are relevant to the conversation.

Re:It's not about copy-paste

[JackieBrown]

When I see moveon.org state that about Obama I'll agree with you

Re:first!

[PopeRatzo]

If you can get that message on 100 blog comments, you get to give Cindy McCain a Cleveland Steamer.

See, I've learned how to engage in a political discussion of the issues without getting personal - from the John McCain Campaign.

Karma Burning Proclamations

[Nymz]

When someone says "We should get together" or "We should keep in touch", what they really mean is "I don't really care, but I don't want to sound like an asshole".

When someone on Slashdot says "Ah fuck it. Let's burn some karma", what they really mean is "I'm a karma whore with a big brown nose, give me some luv fellow groupthinkers".

The big question

[vonWoland]

is if I should write the auto-blog-comment script in Ruby or in Perl. I need a tire gauge, and that seems to be one of the prizes.

Re:Vote for McCain

[eln]

Old and tired photoshop.

Come on man, you can do better than that.

Re:first!

[joshtheitguy]

I live in Cleveland and I am getting a kick out of this reply.

Re:So, he's basically doing...

[Anonymous Coward]

Here you go: http://www.barackobama.com/issues/

My, that was HARD.

Of course, that's not what you were talking about, since you went the strawman route. But that's the exact equivalent of what McCain's doing, and it's been there for ages.

Re:first!

[Silicon Jedi]

Bill Frist?

Re:Vote for McCain

[Silicon Jedi]

I could tell from some of the pixels.

the basic reason why this doesn't work...

[roc97007]

....is precisely because the massive indexing of the web makes astroturfing so easy to spot. Keith Oberman plagiarizes "Media Matters" practically word-for-word.

Re:And we should vote for him over the other guy w

[Anonymous Coward]

Because... McCain saw all the mistakes Obama made and how it just got Obama more votes and donations?

Re:first!

[gparent]

Cheaper Drugs: John McCain will look to bring greater affordability and competition to our drug markets through safe re-importation of drugs and faster introduction of generic drugs.

Hey, I can't say I disagree with that!

Here's a news flash

[DragonTHC]

Buying votes is unethical. Anyone who still wants to vote for McCain, after knowing he's doing this is not a freedom loving American.

Go back to your compound and mix up the koolaid you toothless rednecks.

Technically sound: the facts

[MsGeek]

McCain and Obama on geek issues. This also covers candidates who have been eliminated from the race.

Not funny, it's scary

[Anonymous Coward]

For me at least. I don't think I'm the only one to wonder what happens if an incumbent president starts to show signs of Alzheimer's. My father had a quite sharp mind two years ago and now everyone in our family is telling him to visit a doctor since all of us have noticed how he forgets things now. But he refuses to even though I suspect that at some level he acknowledges the problem. Now, four years is a relatively long time and whilst the president has the best healthcare on the planet, I think it will be hard for anyone that gets to talk to him directly, to tell him of any signs of dementia. And even if someone could - would he listen? Stubborness and refusal goes hand in hand with early Alzheimer's (as I've had to notice). And his condition would have to become very severe before he could be involuntarily removed. So this time I have no difficulties in deciding whom to vote for when one factor makes the other candidate a scary choice.

McPolitico's

[kmkznobeikoku]

CSR: "Hi, welcome to McPolitico's, may I take your order? Customer: "Uh, yeah, I think I'll have a number 6 character assassination combo, with a side of lies" CSR: "Would you like a facts obfuscation to go with that?" Customer: "No, thanks. Oh! Can you add a PAC endorsement to that?" CSR: "Certainly, anything else?" Customer: "No, I'm good" CSR: "Ok, your total comes to five grand, Visa or MasterCard?" Customer: "Cash, actually." CSR: "OK....thank you for stopping at McPolitico's, have a good day!"

Re:first!

[smittyoneeach]

Yep.

Re:And we should vote for him over the other guy w

[FleaPlus]

He repeatedly mentions his opponent by name in speeches and on his web site (why give the other guy free publicity?),

Actually, it's mostly by necessity -- they've found that the only way for them to get any media attention (besides McCain making a screw-up) is to say something about Obama. It sounds a little sad, but when you think about it, it's very much true.

Re:So, he's basically doing...

[Bemopolis]

Now all you need is a network that will parrot them 24 hours a day a la the RNC-FNC "Access of Evil".

It isn't that Democrats are more enthusiastic...

[Weasel Boy]

... it's that Democrats have more to be enthusiastic about right now.

If I were a Republican, I'd be keeping a pretty low profile this election cycle too.

Re:first!

[A nonymous Coward]

GIVE ME MONEY PLEASE!!!! *Sticks out hand*

Dude, it doesn't work if you include that in your pre-made rhetoric.

Include?!?!

That IS his pre-made rhetoric.

not as high ticket as the Lincoln Bedroom

[Iowan41]

Which the Clinton's provided donors. Besides, they already have the MSM to parrot their talking points.

Let's Help McCain

[twmcneil]

I feel sorry for McCain because he is so out of touch with current tech. I mean he really does believe that computers have wind-up cranks just like the Victrola in his parlor. So let's help his campaign out and come with some tech-savy ways they could improve their status on the tubes.

Admittedly, I'm not very good with this stuff because I've only read about things like this in books. I mean I've never really done any of these things myself.

1. Use thousands of kited domains and set up fake blogs all extolling his virtues.
2. DOS Obama's site.
3. Google-bombs.
4. Mechanical Turk the right Wikipedia pages.

Too cheap for McCain

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't have enough money to support McCain OR Obama, so I'm giving Ron Paul a shot; you have to think up your own messages, but instead of just getting a McCain bumper sticker or an Obama coffee mug, you get way better prizes: men in black suits following you around and a life-time restriction from joining the Republican/Democrats party!

It's an uphill battle, but, that's never stopped me before. [Did you know he's still eligible to be President?]

Re:And we should vote for him over the other guy w

[bckrispi]

^ Which is exactly why their campaign is in such deep trouble. Rule #1 in politics: Never, never let your opponent set the narrative!

The Opposite of Reality

[Anonymous Coward]

This spreading of ready-made "snippets of rhetoric" is quite the opposite of what any political animal should do in a democratic system. A political animal in a democratic ecosystem should conway the messages of reflection of voters concerns and servitude of the ideals of the political institution on vote. Pre-formulation of political arguments distorts and stifles the supporters personal concerns and arguments and might lead to a counter reaction as the supporter "finds his/hers voice".

ignoring the elephant in the room?

[plasmacutter]

McCain and Obama on geek issues. This also covers candidates who have been eliminated from the race.

Isn't this kind of ignoring the Elephant in the room?

According to obama's page, he still thinks the information age will be about "selling bits" as if theyre property.

So now you have a real gamble..

elect someone who is incompetent with tech and hope he either ignores it or utterly fails in the mass initiative against freedom of the internet and consumer rights.

-OR-

elect someone who has shown remarkable savvy and grasp of technology, and has sold out to the DMCA.

Protect American Intellectual Property Abroad: The Motion Picture Association of America estimates that in 2005, more than nine of every 10 DVDs sold in China were illegal copies. The U.S. Trade Representative said 80 percent of all counterfeit products seized at U.S. borders still come from China. Barack Obama will work to ensure intellectual property is protected in foreign markets, and promote greater cooperation on international standards [HELLO ACTA] that allow our technologies to compete everywhere.
Protect Intellectual Property at Home: Intellectual property is to the digital age what physical goods were to the industrial age. [No DMCA reform in our time! hello new "drug war"]Barack Obama believes we need to update and reform our copyright and patent systems to promote civic discourse, innovation and investment while ensuring that intellectual property owners are fairly treated.

/b/ tactics...

[Anonymous Coward]

The almighty /b/'s copypasta reaches the electoral process! Discuss.

Obama's record, just FYI.

[Anonymous Coward]

> Focus on McCain's experience to expose the huge void on Obama's side.

Obama was an interracial child in a decade when that was not well-tolerated. He was raised by a single mother who had to rely on food stamps at times.

Rather than turning to gangs or drugs or using excuses not to make something of himself, he went to an Ivy League school, but refused to say that he was black on his application so that he wouldn't get selected because of Affirmative Action. (McCain was 4th from the bottom of his class in the Air Force and got through because daddy was an Admiral, if you're wondering.)

He then took a job as a low-paying community organizer trying to help his community, where he worked for many years before going into politics. He made his money off his books and speeches, which he wrote himself except for that one 10-word idea the media had a circus over (McCain's books, BTW, were ghostwritten. Most, if not all of his speeches, too. McCain got his money by marrying a rich wife after leaving his first wife because she was disfigured in an accident.)

So we have a genius vs. an idiot. Again. Welcome to 2000.

Re:Obama's record, just FYI.

[khallow]

So we have a genius vs. an idiot. Again. Welcome to 2000.

Ah, this just goes to show. You can have the best election in ages, but you still can't take the stupid out of the voter. I don't understand why you'd want to shoehorn this election into the context of the 2000 election. After all the idiot beat the genius. And both Obama and McCain are much better than the candidates of that election.

No

[Anonymous Coward]

No, you see. Here's the problem. You don't know the history of psychiatry. I do.

Re:first!

[Anonymous Coward]

Or some Obama footgear.

Yes, elect the stupid guy who opposes your stance!

[Woundweavr]

The full quote is:

Barack Obama believes we need to update and reform our copyright and patent systems to promote civic discourse, innovation and investment while ensuring that intellectual property owners are fairly treated.

Is pretty important there huh?

# Reform the Patent System: A system that produces timely, high-quality patents is essential for global competitiveness in the 21st century. By improving predictability and clarity in our patent system, we will help foster an environment that encourages innovation. Giving the Patent and Trademark Office (PTO) the resources to improve patent quality and opening up the patent process to citizen review will reduce the uncertainty and wasteful litigation that is currently a significant drag on innovation. With better informational resources, the Patent and Trademark Office could offer patent applicants who know they have significant inventions the option of a rigorous and public peer review that would produce a "gold-plated" patent much less vulnerable to court challenge. Where dubious patents are being asserted, the PTO could conduct low-cost, timely administrative proceedings to determine patent validity. As president, Barack Obama will ensure that our patent laws protect legitimate rights while not stifling innovation and collaboration.

But really, do you think electing "someone who is incompetent" who voted for the DMCA and who has no solutions for intellectual property issues, is against net neutrality, and who one has no reason to believe who support the reform of the DMCA? Against someone who not only already holds pro-technology and rational intellectual property rights as his stated positions already, but has demonstrated an understanding of the new information paradigm and would likely have Lawrence Lessig as a top technology advisor?

Did Obama study throwing US Constit. out window?

[leftie]

Until this summer when the FISA bill came up for voting, I didn't know they taught future Constitutional Law professors the proper techniques to be used when throwing the US Constitution out a window.

Got to have proper form when you are in your Constitution throwing motion. Don't forget to keep your eyes on the Constitution as it flies through the open window. Your follow through on the throwing motion is critical.

Dubya supporter whines about Obama qualifications

[leftie]

A Dubya supporter dares to whine about the qualifications of Obama?!?

Compared to when you voted for Dubya in 2000, Obama's a crusty veteran.

Re:Did Obama study throwing US Constit. out window

[Breakfast Pants]

Newsflash: retroactive immunity has nothing to do with Double Jeopardy, Ex-post-facto, or the first amendment.

They need to offer better rewards.

[Animats]

They need a better reward system. Each person who signs up should get a gift card for use at gas stations. The more you post, the more free gas you get. McCain could probably get sponsorship for this from his oil-industry buddies.

US hasn't been capitalist since corps got legal ID

[leftie]

You don't know your economics too well. The US has not been an Adam Smith style capitalist economy since the US courts gave Corporation a legal identity.

Capitalism required the personal responsibility of those in the economy for any/all actions for a free market to operate properly. Capitalism and Corporations with separate legal identities cannot co-exist.

Re:Did Obama study throwing US Constit. out window

[leftie]

What nonsense are you rambling about?

There's a mountain of case law and legal precedent that says once immunity is granted, it's almost impossible to revoke.

No

[Anonymous Coward]

Quoting Fox News is only EVER acceptable for purposes of parody. Punishment includes a forfiet of your dignaty.

Re:Did Obama study throwing US Constit. out window

[Breakfast Pants]

All I mean to say is that immunity isn't banned on under the ban on 'ex-post-facto' laws; that ban only applies to punitive laws, not beneficial ones.

Would Cindy be conscious while it happened?

[leftie]

I'm only interested if Cindy is sobered up first. I'm not interested in Cindy in her normal Percocet / Vicodin induced stupor.

Re:first!

[Anonymous Coward]

Or, deposit the points to enter the raffle, where the grand prize is a John McCain 1962 AC Cobra with a V8 engine.

He bought it new for his midlife crisis

FISA gives Telecoms past AND FUTURE immunity.

[leftie]

Dude, I talking 4th amendment, unreasonable search and seizure, not ex-post-facto law. FISA trashes the 4th Amendment.

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

--------

"...Unfortunately, even with such a safeguard, the proposed legislation would still grant both retroactive and future legal immunity to telecom companies that help government conduct its surveillance activities. Not only does H.R. 6304 grant immunity from civil action to telecoms that participated in the presidentâ(TM)s surveillance program during the period beginning on September 11, 2001 and ending on January 17, 2007.

It also unconditionally releases these companies from any future liability (presumably both civil and criminal). For it unqualifiedly states, "No cause of action shall lie in any court against any electronic communication service provider for providing any information, facilities, or assistance in accordance with a directive issued pursuant to paragraph (1)." So, if American citizens cannot file suit against these companies for past or future violations of their Fourth Amendment right to privacy, then it has to be questioned how this Act preserves this constitutional right..."

http://www.electiondefensealliance.org/2008/07/fisa_amendment_just_time_steal_election

"The Attorney General and the Director of National Intelligence may direct, in writing, an electronic communication service provider to a) "immediately provide the Government with all information, facilities, or assistance necessary . . . b) maintain under security procedures approved by the Attorney General and the Director of National Intelligence any records concerning the acquisition or the aid furnished. . . ."

And hereâ(TM)s the kicker: "No cause of action shall lie in any court against any electronic communication service provider" for providing this information.

Thus we have the Congress granting to the Executive Branch and the private sector enormous new powers to violate our privacy.

In essence, the government can now conscript the private sector to do its dirty work. But donâ(TM)t pity the companies; the government will pay them for coughing up our secrets, the bill says. âoeThe government shall compensate, at the prevailing rate, an electronic communication service provider for providing information, facilities, or assistance...."

http://www.progressive.org/mag/wx071008.html

Ya' think making corporations completely immune from prosecution of any kind for any legal or illegal work it does to spy on people for the government in the past PRESENT AND FUTURE might be a just a wee bit of a violation for the 4th Amendment?

Re:And we should vote for him over the other guy w

[Dhalka226]

Obama is a media darling. The only way McCain can get some air time these days is to say something controversial, which risks losing him voters for a few seconds of air time. And in typical biased fashion, the media typically just responds to that sort of thing by calling up Obama and putting him on TV to respond.

If McCain has to continue to create silly, controversial paid-for television ads and the result is just getting Obama more free air time, he's doomed. What can he do about that?

Maybe as the election draws closer and more Americans start to pay more attention to it, the coverage will balance out a bit. Until then, "ZOMG OBAMA!" is the story.

How about if Obama...

[v(*_*)vvvv]

ran an ad about McCain's little contest? Is this how McCain finds things to say?

This is like, so attackable.

HAH!

[Anonymous Coward]

They'll never match the "Ron Paul-Bots"!!!

Re:Dubya supporter whines about Obama qualificatio

[amRadioHed]

Unless they are Grover Norquist followers who wanted a failure to show how bad government is. In that case Bush had an impressive series of failures on his resume.

Re:Did Obama study throwing US Constit. out window

[edittard]

I didn't know they taught future Constitutional Law professors the proper techniques to be used when throwing the US Constitution out a window.

They don't - they rightly expect a professor to be able to work it out for himself!

NSFW!

[daemonburrito]

I've posted a goatse link or two in my time, but JEEBUS...! There could be children reading this!

Posting a link to a known scatmuncher's site is just beyond the pale.

Re:NSFW!

[Charles Wilson]

Thank you for proving my point. It's time for some people to wake up and smell the reefer. CW

I forgot...

[daemonburrito]

What was your point?

Was it that lots of people disagree with you? That a lot of people know that Rush is crappy human being who is wrong about almost everything? Does that make you angry? (grr!) It's just not fair, huh?

It's time for some people to wake up and smell the reefer.

You'll show them. Those kids are gonna think their lie-beral slashdot stories are real funny when they're in gitmo; am I right?

Re:I forgot...

[Charles Wilson]

"You are not even wrong." But...don't let me interrupt your party of one. I didn't know that they ran Internet Service that deep into the forest. Have a bowl of nuts 'n berries for me, pally. CW

End positive discrimination

[Anonymous Coward]

Positive discrimination is a sham and a scam. Ask yourself, if it's true that niggers are equal to whites, how come they weren't sailing over and enslaving us?

Oooops.

Anybody know if Ron Paul has a similar scheme?

It's entertaining to rewrite the snippets...

[Snart Barfunz]

With random words -

John McCain has a comprehensive economic flan that will create millions of good American diddly-bobs, baste our nation's inflamed kidney, get the government's wrangling and yodelling practices in order, and bring relief to American teenagers.

Or as C&W lyrics -

John McCain's the Marlborough man,
He's got an economic plan.
Oh yessirree Bob,
He's bringing good old American jobs.
His wife is awful purdy,
He's ensurin our energy securiddy,
Budgetin' like a hoarder and gittin' the guvmint spend in order.
There'll be a pet llama for every consumer,
But for Obama, it's Last Train to Yuma.
That old goat sure gets my vote,
and if he don't win, then ... this last line won't rhyme.

Now where did you say I can post these comments?

Re:And we should vote for him over the other guy w

[Abcd1234]

The only way McCain can get some air time these days is to say something controversial

'course, it'd help if, in front of a crowd, he didn't look like an uncomfortable grandfather who's not really sure of his footing. Or if his campaign actually arranged interesting rallies (ffs, a *Harley* event... seriously??). Or if they'd built any kind of enthusiasm amongst voters... any at all!

The fact is McCain has simply done a terribly shitty job of putting his message out there. 'course, it doesn't help that he's one of the least charismatic candidates I've seen in a long time... and I watched Gore's campaign.

Remember, above all, the media wants ratings... the news channels, right now, are making a mint on advertising (the spend on those networks tends to go way up during major news events, such as political campaigns), and so their goal is one thing: to attract advertisers. The fact that they don't seem to focus on McCain just says to me that McCain simply isn't doing anything interesting, aside from occasionally making an ass out of himself.

Query

[Quiet_Desperation]

Am I the only one who still can't figure how McCain went from practically laying off his campaign staff to being the nominee in (in political terms) an eyeblink? Has anyone really looked into that?

Re:first!

[elrous0]

Wait in line, buddy. Just five more published editorials in swing state newspapers and I get a sloppy blowjob from Cindy!

On a related note, anyone want to buy some Amway?

[elrous0]

Come on, just buy some soap...just one bar...I need this man!

Re:And we should vote for him over the other guy w

[tbannist]

Actually it's worse than that, it doesn't make them look terribly stupid, just desperate and pathetic.

It's clear even McCain's campaign people believe he's going to lose so they're trying any ridiculous idea they can think up. That's why this move completely lacks any subtlety at all.

Turkey Comments?

[MrKaos]

Oh Turn-key comments.

Selling his soul

[DesScorp]

"Now that that's out of the way, why don't you go fuck yourself?"

What's funny is that Democrats have accused Republicans for years now of being little more than mindless cult members. But if you criticize the Obamessiah whatsoever, Democrats just lose their minds and go into a rage. Look at Ratzo. Further, any criticism of The One is both inherently racist and a conspiracy.

Soul? Maybe he didn't have to sell it, Ratzo. Maybe he has to have one in the first place. He had no problem allying himself with Jeremiah Wright for 20+ years, and then, as soon as he became a liability, under the bus he goes. He had no problems teaming up with Tony Rezko for years, but then, as soon as he becomes a liability, bump bump, hear that bus a'rolling. How many speeches has Barack given this year that include *insert name here* is not the person I used to know"?

He used those guys to get to the top, and then disposed of them when the heat became too much. That's not selling out? As for his distinguished law professor career, well, it wasn't. Because he wrote nothing. Nada. Zip. He left no opinions that could come back and haunt him during a political campaign.

Some people worry that Barack Obama is a raging leftist, a real life version of the New Yorker characature of him.

Me, I think the guy is about one thing and one thing only... getting power for Barack Obama. And that makes him just another politician. So you can put those robes away now, Rat. He's not gonna save your soul after all. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

It's mostly demographics.

[Anonymous Coward]

> At the same time, all the national polls I see have the two in a virtual dead heat.

Most of the Obama supporters are enthusiastic and young (therefore Internet-using). Most of the McCain supporters don't want a Democrat and are old (and less likely to use the Internet, especially for discussion).

Now yes, old people do use the Internet. Lots of them. I should know: I once taught a 'basic internet' class at the library. I don't think I ever had a student under 50. But most of them wanted to email their grandchildren or to do things like that. They weren't out to discuss politics with random strangers.

So that's why they're less vocal.

BTW, even though national polls are pretty close (though the average is near Obama +4), you need to look at state level polls to get meaningful answers about who is likely to win. For that, go to RealClearPolitics, FiveThirtyEight or Electoral-Vote.com and look up the stats. The odds I'm hearing say that Obama is favored about 2-1, but McCain can probably close that if things go his way (it has tightened recently).

As we learned from Bush in 2000, you can lose the popular vote but win the electoral vote (and thus, the election).

People! Please!

[metamatic]

Don't you know that John McCain has a comprehensive economic plan that will create millions of good American jobs, ensure our nation's energy security, get the government's budget and spending practices in order, and bring relief to American consumers?

I am a member of the GOP

[SonicSpike]

And I will NOT be voting for McCain this election. I won't be voting for Obama either. I don't vote for people who are going to raise taxes, increase the size/scope of government, violate individual liberties, and trample the Constitution.

TRUST ME that MANY Republican / conservative types are not happy about McCain. Even Ann Coulter herself said she would rather campaign for Hillary than McCain. You can see that video on YT.

I used to be a member of the Libertarian party but decided I didn't want to wait that long for them to get their act together. So me and several thousand of my friends are working to change the GOP platform to a more liberty oriented position - www.campaignforliberty.com

Anyway, I attended a local GOP picnic a few months back here in Nashville where the former Governor, a couple of Congressmen, and other high ranking members of the State GOP were present. There was a guy from the McCain campaign passing out McCain stickers and several people turned him down. So don't think that the GOP is all groupthink and in unison. The big government types are at odds with the small government types. The convention will be interesting and if someone tries to get the nomination from McCain and wins, I won't be surprised.

Obama and the Constitution?! HA!

[SonicSpike]

If Obama is such a scholar of the Constitution then why does he keep advocating policies that will violate it? (Please note McCain will violate the Constitution just as much as Obama will if elected)

Obama and the Constitution

[SonicSpike]

If Obama is such a lover of the Constitution why does he keep advocating policies that will violate it? (not that McCain would behave any better)