Slashdot Mirror
Intel Claims an Advance In Wireless Power
Many readers are sending in coverage of a demo at Intel's developer forum of a wirelessly powered 60-watt bulb. The NYTimes gives background on Intel's improvement to the 'wireless resonant energy link' technology pioneered at MIT, where researchers achieved 50% efficiency of power transmitted several meters via magnetic fields. Intel reached 75% efficiency. Now they just have to make those coils a lot smaller.
25% of wasted power and goal achieved? Plus a nice pulsating magnetic field in the house? No thank you.
Timo's Audio Software http://www.esseraudio.com
This is the cancer that is killing slashdot!
With all the EMF in the average home, with AC wires in every wall and appliances always running, and as little power as a calculator or wristwatch uses, why they need batteries? It seems like a coil and a rectifier circut should be enough.
I'd probably know why if I were an electrical engineer.
mcgrew's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greedy self-interest
how about all manufacturors agree on a single plug for their power supplies. Then the companies who make power sockets for offices can make one built into a wall socket. Put that into every meeting room. Suddenly you just need a 1 meter long, very thin cable instead of a lugging a whole kilo of copper around....
10 ?"Hello World" life was simple then
There had to be some truth in emails I received about cooking an egg between 2 cell phone !!
In this field no matter how much you know, You still don't know anything.
While I'm not well-versed in the possible dangers of all this additional radiation, clearly we can't argue that it's anywhere near mainstream yet.
In an age where we are increasingly becoming aware of just how fragile our fossil fuel-based energy supply is, even small-scale uses of this technology would need to see a significant increase in efficiency. Losing a quarter of your energy in the final step (nevermind whatever the endpoint device wastes as heat or whatnot), is simply unacceptable.
I say give it another decade, then we'll have viable application.
If firefighters fight fire, and crimefighters fight crime, what do freedom fighters fight? - George Carlin
Unless I've misunderstood the linked article, this is just the same technique that has been used in transformers for decades - a fluctuating magnetic field created by an AC current through a solenoid inducing power in another solenoid. Sure, 75% efficiency is pretty good for a few metres, but those coils are bloody huge. Anyone care to enlighten me as to whether or not this is actually new?
How long ago did Tesla conceive of this, and we're still trying to keep up with the guy?
Die First, Then Quit
My understanding of the physics of linked resonant coils is that the coupling efficiency at a given range (once you're farther away than a few times the coil diameter) is proportional to the coil diameter cubed. So if you halve the ring size, you drop the range by a factor of 8.
With all the current debates and fears (justified or not) about the possible long-term effects of mobile phones, I wonder how they think installing this kind of generator in a house might work...
Alright everyone, today's team building exercise will be to complete this discussion without mentioning Nicolai Tesla! Everyone, let's get together on this and try to avoid mentioning him in this thread and keep it entirely Tesla free! ...oh goddamnit.
unlike the scares surrounding the micro-power electric fields from mobile phones and the virtually non-existent fields from CRTs, the amount of power being emitted by these (enough to power a laptop or lightbulb) might actually be something to get concerned about.
politicians are like babies' nappies: they should both be changed regularly and for the same reasons
Didn't Tesla do this a couple hundred years ago in a much safer way?
Nikola Tesla demonstrated wirelessly powered fluorescent lights more than 100 years ago.
Nevertheless, it would be interesting to see practical applications and commercial implementations for this old idea, and hopefully help us reduce cable clutter a bit. I just hope that accidentally resonant circuitry in the vicinity of transmitters won't suddenly fry itself and cause random fires.
I'm sure they somehow got Tesla's notes about wireless power.
when i say that we really wanna get rid of the cables for good. i hope they perfect this as soon as possible.
Read radical news here
assuming his body had a ferrite core and was wrapped in copper wire, or something...
Please read my Canon EOS tech blog at http://www.everyothershot.com
Any transformer does the same the thing with much better efficiency, but at smaller distances.
A bolt of plasma shooting across engineering between the M-5 multitronic unit and the engines.
Sure it's a little hazardous to red shirts, but that's the price of progress.
The house wiring doesn't create much field, electric or magnetic. You would have to be right next to the wire to use it.
Magnetic - The current going out the hot wire is exactly matched by that returning on the neutral. The fields due to the two currents cancel.
Electric - The hot wire has 120 volts on it and that would create an electric field but the neutral and ground wires are right next to it. That means the field, while not completely shielded, does not go very far.
OTOH: some appliances create pretty hefty fields. CRT TVs and monitors, motors and subwoofers come to mind. As long as you're willing to sit your calculator on an old CRT TV, you should be able to power it easily. ;-)
In the photograph it shows the coils parallel to each other, if it can be perpendicular the larger coil could be placed under a rug or flooring or possibly in the wall, and thus hiding it.
Your TV has a tremendous magnetic field, as do subwoofers.
My TV is an LCD flat panel. Please explain to me how it has a *tremendous* magnetic field.
A small field, perhaps, but it certainly has no CRT tube's deflection yoke in it.
I was once at this new agey type of store, and there were these pyramid shaped Zen Clocks. I thought they were cool but a bit over priced ($99 now $119), especially when you consider that they are just a fancy shape, with a clinky "chime", all around a cheap-ass AA battery powered travel clock. When I asked about an AC one, the clerk informed me that the company doesn't make one because of the "electromagnetic fields" from AC. I chuckled and said it's more like the battery clock inserts are much cheaper.
I walked away in disgust and jealousy for not thinking of such a gimmick.
That size antenna would be fine to install behind drywall. Mount the Speaker and transmit the sound.
That matter it would work with all kinds of LED accent lighting as well.
This should do really good to any brain in the vincinity...
One thing that seems to be missing from the articles and discussion about this technology is a comparison to the current tech (in this case, extension cords/power strips). What is the loss that exists right now?
I'm no electrician, but as an attempt at a ballpark I looked up a voltage drop calculator at http://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm, plugged in 18AWG, 6 ft cord, 120V 1 phase power (an average extension cord from what I can determine) and got a 0.33% voltage drop. I don't know if voltage drop is a good indicator of total energy loss, but my rudimentary electrical knowledge suggests it might be.
Regardless, if that figure is even remotely accurate, it means we're comparing a 25% loss to a 0.33% loss, so the technology has a quite high efficiency cost compared to the current technology.
It might be more fair to compare the new system to a "wall wart" charger system, unfortunately I don't know what the typical gauge of wire is for that application, so here's a spread of guesses, with the power also adjusted to 6V DC and 1A (a more-or-less typical "charging" load)
30AWG 14.07% voltage drop
26AWG 5.6% voltage drop
22AWG 3.2% voltage drop
Obviously, the thinner the wire the more drop, but even if we're comparing 25% loss to 2.5% loss, that's an order of magnitude better than the assumption of comparing it to an extension cord.
Anyway, please elaborate on this if you're knowledgeable about it, I'm curious now.
This was before "star wars" and it was dark, so the sight of a couple of people waving 4-foot fluorescent tubes about was quite novel.
politicians are like babies' nappies: they should both be changed regularly and for the same reasons
Then let's just scale the loops with the building where it is meant to be used. Wire the walls.
Maybe we deserve this world ?
They still have CRT TVs and monitors? Check under it, will ya? I lost my slide-rule somewhere...
"Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies."
There's these things called the basic laws of physics which make this idea a dead end.
Magnetic fields go between two poles and not much further afield. That makes the far field go down as the cube of the distance. Basically insurmountable gotcha.
1: Scale that up to orbital range
2: Put a giant solar collector in orbit
3: Profit
Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart, he dreams himself your master.
But, doesn't transmitting high power wirelessly cause cancer?
don't we already have high instances of cancer of those who live under high voltage lines?
don't eletrical linemen have higher instances of cancer?
High voltage electro-magnetic fields cause cancer with prolonged exposure.
They're using their grammar skills there.
Now we just need to set up windmills / solar panels near highways to power cars as they drive by on the auto grid. Oh nm, that would cause the oil companies to lose too much cash.
Life is everything but nothing.
Worrying about the energy waste from wall warts and PC's is like being concerned about the drip in your ceiling while there is a dam break upstream. Home heating and transportation energy use is twice the magnitude of consumption (1kW vs. 4-500kW or more) and a very small reduction there is a much better idea.
The convenience of wireless charging outweighs the (trivial) energy losses is most applications.
..don't panic
Somewhat pun intended, but to blue sky here a bit, wouldn't it be interesting if this type of technology was not limited by a few meters, but rather could be translated a much higher distance?
I am thinking of orbital solar collectors sending power earth side, to solve our power woes, with no impact.
Or even a step farther, set up solar power generating stations on the moon to the same effect. Now I guess this technology uses magnetic fields to transport the power, so perhaps earths natural field may muck that up, also delivering accurately to a very small area on earth might also be rather hard to do.
Anyway interesting food for thought, if only for science fiction.
Yeah, but you can make up the difference by switching to compact fluorescent bulbs.
I'm proposing a new tag "thinkofthecarbonfootprint". For those of you who are about such things. I think it stands to reason that recharging via this method would increase existing power consumption (and therefore co2) by 25%.
Yeah, it'd be fun ans great, but who is willing to sacrifice the planet for the plug-in inconvenience?
(FTR: I am not an anthropogenic global warming believer)
Slashdot's rate-of-post filter: Preventing you from posting too many great ideas at once.
Wow! What a breakthrough! Now, not only can I steal my neighbors' internet, I can steal their power, too!
Is it just me or that's not a real word?
So say we all
... they figure out to encrypt it so people can't steal my wireless power.
now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
Obviously this is in very rough stages, but for all you EE guys out there, would it be feasible to install a "charge pad" at intersections, parking spaces, and/or driveways? Then you have electric cars that charge as they idle or park. This would be in the not-so-close future, but is it another piece in the chain to reaching vehicle oil independence?
Something witty.
Pardon me, but haven't we had transformers since 1831? How does MIT get credit for inventing everything? At least Al Gore has the internet!
The good: Power of the flavor and amount the device wants.
The bad: How do you talk to a device that's completely dead? Always have a hot +5v line?
The ugly: Cost, Cost, Cost. Manufacturers for devices like this scrutinize fractions of pennies when they're pricing products like these. There is NO WAY you're going to convince them to put 50 cents worth of useless electronics into a device like that.
And XML? Puhleeeeze... You really need to read the story about the king and the toaster.
Or was that a whooshing sound I heard?
They ARE out to get you simply because They are in it for themselves and they don't care about you.
And there are smokers who lived to be 100 too. If this technology caused 1% or .1% of people to get cancer 20 years later, would you use it? What if it only affected fertility and birth defects? The acceptable safety ranges of technologies that we accept as a society aren't particularly amenable to anecdotal evidence.
Maybe the "cell-phones cause cancer" guys are reactionary crackpots, but maybe they have a point and they only scream because that's the only way to be heard. Myself, I'll wait for more scientific evidence to judge.
And then there were none.
Really? I thought it was a high F#.
You might be thinking of the PAL hum, a 50 Hz tone. That's closer to G (49.0 Hz).
This technology sure could give new meaning to turning your lights on and off. You even get dimming for free (turning your lights halfway off).
The motion of electrons really has nothing to do the effectiveness of an electricity distribution system... it's the net movement of charge.
AC does not work better because it's a more efficient method of transmission; it's because it's more versatile. It lets you change your voltage/current ratio ala transformers, and with 3-phase feeds it comes from the generator ready to power heavy industrial motors.
When it comes to actual transmission efficiency, AC current is worse compared to DC. Due to the oscillating nature of the signal (even though it is only 50 or 60 hz, depending on your location), the time-variant magnetic field causes inductive losses in surrounding environment. DC currents, however, produce no change in the B field and except when load varies, and can thus provide more efficient transmission over longer distances and higher voltages. That's why they're used to tie disparate AC systems (IIRC, the three electrical "regions" of the US are tied together by High-Voltage DC lines). It is especially more useful now that solid-state rectification and inversion systems have boosted the efficiency of AC/DC conversion to the point where it's more economical to use them.
Damn, I guess I'll have to get a slashdot account now... /nit-picker.
I am very concerned about the radio interference generated by these devices. The 60-watt device likely emits 100,000 times the power permitted by FCC regulations. This is enough stray radio waves to communicate around the world.
really
--- Eat my sig.
Wow... Intel is on the run baby. They have:
CPU's
Motherboards
USB
GPU's
BTX
SSD's
HD Soundcards
Wireless network cards
And now they have wireless power as well?
Maybe they should go back into RAM too, make BluRay drives and they can make full Intel computers! Just imagine the profit on that shit...
Here be signatures
Yeah, I hate how half the cell phones out there need a unique charger. The cell industry seems to be moving towards standard plug sizes like micro USB. It would be great if ALL gadgets used the same power input jack.
If that was the case, you could build a little "charging closet" into the wall of a bedroom with a half dozen standard charging plugs in it. Gadgets could come and go, but you'd charge them all the same way.
Slashdot editors apparently played video games instead of learning how the world works. Now they are excited by foolish pseudo-science. The pseudo-science here is that yes, the system demonstrated works, but that has been known for many decades. And it won't be "improved" unless there is some Nobel-Prize-winning breakthrough in understanding of electromagnetism.
"Plus a nice pulsating magnetic field in the house? No thank you." Exactly. As you walk past the field with anything that conducts, energy will be transferred to what you are carrying. A sloppy wet sandwich will become warmer, for example. Your skin will become slightly warmer.
So bad we will need at least one ZPM per house.
Tsukasa: All I really want, is to be left alone...
I actually develop near field magnetic field radiators.
Two of the main issues are
- Near field magnetic decay 1/r^3 (ie very quickly)
- There are very strict emissions standards for near field mag radiators. Most of the world obeys ETSI EN 300-330 which give sensible measurements units in dBuA/m^2. The US has its own crazy FCC rule in dBuV/m2 (go figure)
So one would need to change legislation to enable decent powers to be coupled over any appreciable distance (ie over a metre)
46137
Not to the same extent but it has a high voltage power transformer for the backlight.
Guess again. This Samsung has an LED backlight system for the LCD panel. All low voltage, and no hi voltage inverter to make a trashy magnetic EM field around it.
Energy efficiency is out the window with 25% loss of transmitted power. Great. Fire up more power plants to power this mania.
Which brings me to something I've been meaning to ask other /.ers... A while ago there was an article about a miniITX project to make a case out of LEGO bricks and one of the more interesting (but sadly unanswered :() question was asking what about shielding, heat dissipation, "and all that other good stuff"...
Does this relate to electromagnetic fields? Or in that case is it still a good idea to protect it with metal? Because plenty of miniITX projects, and normal case modding projects, call for wood, or plexiglass, some people leaving their parts out on a sheet of plexiglass and one person using a milk cart... I've always thought that'd be bad for you, and one person told me a long time ago it could stop pacemakers.
Now not only can you steal your neighbor's wireless internet, you can steal their wireless electricity to power your laptop!
but do u mean that if we need bigger power,
then we need more dense resonance effect?
that means......an invisible wire......not really wireless....becoz i guess u can't put anything in between their "air resonance pathway"?
am i correct?
my physics is just up to....gcse level T~T
Nothing to fear! Just like previous advances in technology!
http://rocknerd.co.uk
"Edison was not a hacker. Tesla was brilliant but could not see the limitations in his own work (which is not always a liability)" - by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 22, @12:30PM (#24707365)
Wait a second now, fellow "A/C":
Don't you mean THAT, the 'other way around'/vice-a-versa?
After all, Edison had to hired TESLA (on the advisement of a former teacher or boss of tesla's who stated he knew 2 great men: Edison & Tesla, in said field)... ALL/ONLY, to increase the efficiency of his DIRECT CURRENT plans for US power grids... &, Tesla did so!
(AND, Tesla did so, above & beyond the 'call of duty'/very well, by not only increasing it 10% per their agreement, but he made D/C up to 20% more efficient (iirc, as to % gained, it was near those figures))
& THEN? What did Edison DO?? Edison RIPPED HIM OFF!
I.E. -> Instead of paying him the 50k agreed upon (in those days, that is a LOT more than today, probably more like 5-50 million in today's "holy dollars"), he paid him a FRACTION of that...
Edison was a SWINE, in breaching their verbal contract after saying "Gee, Nikola, you don't understand business in this nation - no written contract, nothing binding" etc. et al... what a scumbag!
Now, by the same token, God must have been watching over TESLA!
I say this, simply because George Westinghouse took Tesla in, & what do we run today?
ALTERNATING CURRENT (which demands less repeater stations to "amp" the current due to signal impedance/attenuation, no doubt (resistance over the surface of wires, which electricity ONLY travels over the surface of mind you, & there is resistance when 'pushed' in 1 direction especially as DC does)... A CLEAR LIMITATION OF THE IDEAS OF EDISON in DC, bigtime (not Tesla, because AC demands not nearly as many repeater stations for signal strength amplification).
APK
You already have pulsating magnetic fields in your house. In the US, AC current is 60 hz, so you have a constant 60 hz magnetic field. That hum you hear is the oscillating magnetic field moving steel back and forth.
Electrical wiring in houses shouldn't produce very strong fields -- on the order of mG a few inches away. That hum you hear is most likely from transformers in devices you have plugged into the wall than from induction on the beams in your house unless you have a very strange house.
The magnetic field won't hurt you. My dad was an electrical lineman for forty years, often working on the 30,000 volt towers. He couldn't wear a mechanical wristwatch because it would become magnetized. He just turned 77 and he's healthier than a lot of guys my age.
If magnetic fields caused cancer, linemen would die of lukemia right and left.
Wrong type of cancer.
Epidemiological studies show that people working with magnetic fields in fact *do* have a higher rate of brain cancers than the average population. (See here , here, and here.)
That last study notes that leukemia rates aren't affected by EM exposure, and this study shows no increase in breast cancers in rats due to magnetic field exposure.
We actually have a model and theory for how AC fields promote brain cancers. You can read this full paper on an experiment to test a theory that iron-mediated free radical creation is at fault. Here's an abstract for a study testing for oxidative effects of EMF in snails.
(Also, the plural of anecdote is not evidence -- much less, "I knew a guy who did [X risky thing] and is doing just awesome, so stop worrying about it, you pansies!")
If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
Don't forget too, that the earth is a giant magnet with a very powerful field.
Eh. 0.3-0.6 G isn't that impressive for a fixed magnet. A kitchen magnet can have a field several hundred times that from a few centimeters away. The Earth's field *is* very powerful in that it has that kind of strength over the *whole planet* at distances from the core to the surface, but as an ambient source of magnetic influence on our biology, it's pretty weak compared to that of the various electrical devices we've only been exposing ourselves to for the past 120+ years.
(And better accounted for, I'd imagine, by evolution.)
Plus, as you tacitly acknowledge, AC vs. DC does make a difference in the effects of the field on objects within it.
If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
There was this joke commercial in the Netherlands about a year ago about "buying wireless electricity" (point of the commercial was that something like that doesn't or won't exist, so instead you'll have to get your electricity at their company). It sure doesn't seem so impossible now...
I am not devoid of humor.
Git' off ma' lawn!
I know tobacco is bad for you, so I smoke weed with crack.