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Senate Judiciary Committee Approves Copyright Cops
I Don't Believe in Imaginary Property writes "The Senate Judiciary Committee has approved the EIPA (the Enforcement of Intellectual Property Rights Act of 2008), which would create copyright cops. And these cops would take over the RIAA's War on Sharing by filing civil lawsuits and using civil forfeiture laws to take any and all computers engaged in infringement. Worse, they would even seize computers (such as servers or database farms) that house the data of innocent people, and these people would not have any right to get their data back. At best the 'virtual bystanders' who happened to have data on a computer used for infringement could get a protective order saying that no one should go rummaging through their stuff. Perhaps the only good thing in the bill is that they've excluded DMCA circumvention from the list of grounds for seizure. So while the Senators believe this is needed to combat foreign copyright infringement cartels, it's entirely likely that innocent people will be harmed by this law."
please think of the children.
The cost of that cleanup, of course, will be borne by taxpayers, not industry.
I only scanned the article, but I don't understand how US pseudo-cops seizing US computers and servers is going to stop foreign copyright infringement. Unless these are somehow international cops, but I doubt that.
Ahh America, where civil law meets criminal law. You know, I'm sure that my neighbor has built his fence 2 inches over the property line. I wish I could call the cops and have them seize his things and jail him.
America, even if you don't get the difference, please stop exporting your arbitrary laws to the rest of the world. Thank you.
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
So, in a nutshell, you now pay for the RIAA to prop up their outdated and failed business model. Well, not really, you pay for people who do it for the RIAA. I kinda fail to see the public interest. Because that's what tax money should be spent on.
When I want to wage a war against my neighbor because I think he might do something illegal (ya know, he's one of those $minorty_group, and we all know they $stereotype), the public doesn't care, as they should. I can't go to the police station and demand that they install some surveillance cams and send a car by his house every couple minutes. Actually, I might have a suit for harrassment on my ass for doing so myself.
Can someone explain why the RIAA is entitled to harrassing people, now not only with their own witchhunters but by people that YOU pay for?
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
This is the straw that broke the camel's back. I am going to wait until the copyreich brownshirts raid the very first webhost and seize a whole server farm. We'll see how well this goes over when a few thousand customers sue the US government for illegal seizure.
This is so far from being common sense. I can only wonder what senators have been smoking.
They're using their grammar skills there.
I guess in the same way jumping off a 50 story building, sans chute, means it's "entirely likely" you'll spatter on the pavement below.
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
...were already being harmed by the RIAA. That much hasn't changed. This new organization will likely be like most all other organizations in the government: understaffed, underfunded, and incompetent.
while(1) attack(People.Sandy);
...it's entirely likely that only innocent people will be harmed by this law.
There, I fixed it.
Never ask for directions from a two-headed tourist! -Big Bird
America, you are fucked. Unfortunately, your government will foist this on everyone they have a trade agreement and then we'll all be fucked.
Please, will you guys stop allowing the movie and recording industry to have a stranglehold on the world economy?
Your lawmakers are out of control, and being paid for my corrupt organizations.
that this is a make-or-break issue... that is, if it ever comes up for a vote. If it does, I sure as hell intend to tell mine that if they vote for it, they will never receive a vote from me, for any office, again.
everytime someone points out how incomptent the government is (do you want healthcare run like the dmv?), the obvious retort is "private industry fucks up too!", which is true. However, private industry doesn't write laws (at least without congress voting on it!) or have the ability to seize your property, strip your liberties, or throw you in jail.
Do you even lift?
These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.
That's all of Europe, the Far East - anywhere with fast bandwidth and cheap power that'll be hosting US websites now. Folk will be setting up anywhere with a building and good connectivity that's out of reach of these people. Maybe if someone pointed out that fact to your lawmakers they would stop this ludicrous suggestion. Until then we will commiserate with you, host your websites, and hell the way the dollars climbing we don't mind that much if you want to pay with greenbacks either.
Did anyone else get the FireScope banner ad that says "The New Era has Arrived: Welcome to the next generation of Monitoring" and find the irony?
The Chicago Cubs won over the St. Louis Cardinals 3 to 2.
[knock knock]
Hang on, someone is at the door.
Who is it?
The Copyright Cops
What's this about?
Descriptions of games are copyright of Major League Baseball. I'm afraid you'll have to come with us.
One of our competitors trademarked the term "hypothesis". From now on, we will call them "boneheaded ideas".
Taking a shared server because 1 user is behaving as a criminal is akin to seizing an entire business because one manager is breaking the law. With shared hosts, you have sometimes thousands of users on a single high end server, and a court would probably strike this down as overreaching. Clone the data, grab the logs, sure, but shut down something used primarily by legitimate users and take it away without recourse to them? I can't see any half-way sensible judge supporting that.
I can't wait for the day that my shit can be taken and I can be locked up just for walkin down the street.
It'll happen.
... as its easier for ego manic cops to bust the innocent then it is for them to sweat it out busting organized crime.
incredible simple math that a kindergarten kid even knows at the sandbox....
Windows has detected you're running an unlicensed copy. The copyright gestapo has been automatically notified. Please standby while your door is broken down and your computer is seized. Thank you and have a nice day.
And we wonder why taxes are so high. Shouldn't we be cutting government fat, rather than adding it?
Care to refute it? Or just going to stick to attacking the messenger(s)?
"It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education." -Albert Einstein
They have the DMCA but we have The Pirate Bay... profits were up, the MPAA had their best two years ever, why couldn't everyone be happy?
Now that the balance is being pushed again, expect a large pushback. I can't wait to see what this is going to do to increase *effective* foreign-server-based piracy.
Surely the point of foreign copyright infringement cartels is that they operate outside the US and therefore outside it's jurisdiction, at which point what is the actual purpose of this law?
Amusingly my CAPTCHA is Baseless...
Dude, did you read TFA? Because, if the way ars describes it is accurate, the whole law is pretty much inflammatory.
It's downright scary!! The federal government will now pursue civil matters on behalf of private entities, with the inclusion for collateral damage of seizure of entire server farms. So, if you host with someone, and one of their customers infringes, you could lose all of your stuff with little or no recourse.
This is a very scary precedent, and it seems to blur some historical distinctions between federal agencies and private interests.
Cheers
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
Firstly, any and all your home computers, if you use bittorrent or download music you need to change your habits. Get a USB hard drive and a live CD to run your computer when you are in EVIL PIRATE MODE. if the live CD you use allows the use of truecrypt on the USB drive, I highly recommend it. If it is found you need plausible deniability. I had hacker friends that hid their USB drive inside a belkin UPS under their desk. nobody questions a UPS with a USB cable out of it, Hiding it in plain sight like that will help deter and distract the invading police during their search.
This way you can hide your usb drive with all the evidence and your regular home PC is pristene and clean with no evidence to condemn you.
Works great, leaves no evidence except that which is on your USB drive. You need to start using habits like the Jews had to use in WWII Germany.. take your drive and hide it well when not in use as you will never know when your home will be raided by the Secret IP police. you need to live a double life, and make sure you have good hiding places for your contraband. also be secret, never brag or tell others about your stash as they may be agents of the IP Police... (Bet you money that in a couple of years they will start a "rat on your parents/neighbors/friends" blitz to encourage people to turn in their neighbors.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
"Since there is no government of which the concern or the discipline is primarily the health either of household or of the earth, since it is in the nature of any state to be concerned first of all with its own preservation and only second with the cost, the dependable, clear response to man's moral circumstance is not that of law, but that of conscience. The highest moral behavior is not obedience to law, but obedience to the informed conscience even in spite of law."
the united states is a nation of laws; badly written and randomly enforced -- frank zappa
(yes, copyrights are in fact rights, granted by law)
Law does not grant rights; it protects them. Law grants privileges. Despite the name, copyright in United States works is a privilege that the Congress can revoke at any time.
Do I have the right to write a song? Even that is questionable.
Is this law legal?
And these cops would take over the RIAA's War on Sharing by filing civil lawsuits
Where in the Constitution does it say Congress can file lawsuits on behalf of corporations? If my copyrights are violated, will they sue on my behalf? And note that every slashdot comment is copyrighted by its poster. If this becomes law, we slashdotters should flood the government with infringement suits.
and using civil forfeiture laws to take any and all computers engaged in infringement.
Yeah, all you people who thought this was a good thing when it was drug dealers getting their cars taken. This doesn't seem constitutional, either. What happened to a nation of laws? Of innocent until proven guilty?
Worse, they would even seize computers (such as servers or database farms) that house the data of innocent people, and these people would not have any right to get their data back.
If this isn't declared unconstitutional then somebody's got a REALLY crappy lawyer.
it's entirely likely that innocent people will be harmed by this law.
This may ironically be the only good thing about it. When innocent voters start losing data or eqiopment, these asshats are going to have to cave or be voted out.
I'd like to know who sponsored this abomination, and which memebers of the judiciary committee voted for it?
Free Martian Whores!
Anybody else notice that one of the members on this committee is Joe Biden, Senator from Delaware and VP nominee of the Democratic Party.
The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
Hey, I've got an idea! How about an arm of the government that cracks down on any form of "interference with corporate profit".
Wow. Think of how many of our citizens we could throw in jail!
-- America, where more money is spent on prisons than education.
As far as I'm concerned, this bill has now made it too risky to run a Tor exit node. I don't want to be accused of possible copyright infringement and lose an my stuff forever just because J. Random Idiot downloaded a movie through my proxy.
Which sucks for the freedom-loving types out there.
I'm proud of my Northern Tibetian Heritage
Why do I have the feeling that in cases of violation of the GPL and Creative Commons licenses -- which are grounded in copyright -- these guys would just stand around and do nothing?
Not a good thing, but it's not law yet. You still have time to write your congresscritters.
And I see it's tagged "democrats." I find the party's support of the copyright lobby to be rather dismaying, but let's not ignore the fact that more than half of the Republicans on the committee also voted in favor. They're all willing to suck off the media companies, cause most people don't really know enough to care, and most of those that do just bitch about on slashdot.
i hate this country more and more each day.
is there any room left in canada?
Good people go to bed earlier.
Movie industry freaks give tons of money to the Democratic Party, and donations talk.
That's pretty much the sum of it.
Yes, if the bill is as it is reported in the article it would be a very bad law. However, it is not yet a law. There is no mention of a U.S. House bill with similar language. And this bill has only just been passed out of committee, it still needs to be voted on by the full Senate, followed by a conference to reconcile it with whatever bill comes from the House (of which there doesn't yet appear to be one). Then the "compromise" bill must be passed by both Houses, then finally it goes to the President for his signature.
So, while this proposal is a bad law, there is still plenty of time to stop it from becoming law.
The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
The additional latency (ca. 100ms roundtrip) makes hosting in Europe unattractive. Hosting in Europe is cheaper already and if that doesn't cause an exodus, then the occasional seizure of a shared hosting system isn't going to either. The hosting provider will replace the system and restore the backup. A few angry words will be exchanged and that's it. This only needs to happen a few times to make hosting providers more careful about the content that is hosted on their systems, which is probably the whole point of the exercise. Prepare to see hosting providers become much more "proactive" about copyright violations.
Oh? Then civil rights, which are granted by law, are not rights, they are privileges and can be revoked by Congress at any time.
There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
Although I have very little sympathy for copyright thievery — regardless of whether it is exactly or almost the same as thievery of tangible goods — the ease, with which the government can seize suspect's property, and the difficulties facing the ex-suspect in getting the property back are a major problem in our legal system.
There are a lot of safeguards for the suspect's person, but the property (including cash) is hardly protected at all. In Giulliany's New York, drunk drivers were supposed to lose their cars even — on a cop's say-so in a "traffic-court" (run by the Executive branch, not Judiciary). In this illiberal Massachusetts town, a kid would lose bicycles, if caught without a helmet. Police don't need to prove anything — they can just take it using the force we give them to fight crimes. Then, in many cases, the victim — already cleared of all (or most) of the originally suspected wrongdoing — has to sue to get the seized stuff back, and there is no telling, neither what it will cost them (in legal fees alone), nor what condition the stuff will be upon return.
The situation is slowly changing, but on the local levels only. A Constitutional amendment, or other sort of "Miranda rights"-like rule is long overdue.
Meanwhile, why should those accused of copyright violations have it any different? Because some of them could just have been by-standers? Well, if you give your bicycle to a kid, who is accused of riding helmet-less by the cop, you are bystander too. Same with loaning your car to a friend, who is then accused of DUI...
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
Hi there. Let me introduce you to the Depart of Justice Civil Rights Division, which pursues civil matters on the behalf of private entities. Please check out the penalties that can be assessed in a DoJ civil rights lawsuit.
There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
(yes, copyrights are in fact rights, granted by law)
I shouldn't feed the trolls, but here goes.
It is not the job of the government to enforce copyright. It is the job of the copyright holder. Hiring MediaSentry is perfectly acceptable, PROVIDED THEY DO NOT BREAK THE LAW DOING SO. If they would get a PI license and stop gaming the courts, there wouldn't be as much of a problem.
On a related note, THE GOVERNMENT DOES NOT GRANT RIGHTS. Read the god damn Declaration of Independence.
On a slight tangent: We are long overdue for a revolution. I give it 50 years, and we'll either be fighting another civil war, or sitting complacently on our couches watching the idiot box.
I'm sure you'll convince everyone of your position real fast with condescension, question begging, half truths, straw men and ad hominems.
If you have a point to make, perhaps you should try putting forth a cogent argument for it instead of a load of barely-contained rage.
"Remaining intact was language that would give the Justice Department authority to pursue civil suits against IP infringers, awarding any damages won to the patent, copyright, or trademark holders. Critics have blasted this provision as a gift of free, taxpayer-funded legal services to content owners. The bill now goes to the full Senate, and must still be recognized with its counterpart legislation in the House, which lacks the language deputizing the DoJ to bring suit on behalf of IP owners." Hopefully there are still some folks with a little sense in the senate. Oh wait...nevermind...
No, rights such as freedom of speech, etc. were deemed natural rights that no government was needed to grant - when the Constitution was being written, there was opposition to including the Bill of Rights since some delegates felt that listing 10 rights would imply that people were only granted those 10 rights by the govt. Instead, they wanted the Constitution to act, as it is, as a list of the ONLY things the govt can do and "all the other rights are reserved to the states or to the people".
--- You shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you mad- Neal (not Cowboy) Boortz
Although this bill is popular among both Republicans and Democrats, it is not a done deal. If you are concerned about this, please contact your Senator and Congressperson.
Great idea but not quite devious enough :)
As well as using a live CD I'd build a small NAS (nano-itx or smaller) which I'd put somewhere in the loft or basement and which I'd access wirelessly. The power supply would be wired into a circuit which also switches on something innocuous like a low power ceiling light. You could even go one better by wiring up a power socket so when the switch is in the on position current is available both to the socket and your NAS powers up. Having a light on in the bright afternoon may look "suspicious" but it doesn't get more innocuous than a power socket with a switch left in the on position.
Hell even make it so it requires two sockets in the house being in the on position before the box will boot.
Something on the NAS could also periodically check what's on the network and silently shut itself down if the network isn't in ARRGH_ME_HEARTIES mode (unknown machine joined the network ? Engines off and dive, dive, dive !)
Then also make sure you run a semi poorly configured wireless access point which looks like you've tried to secure it but are clueless (i.e. user "admin" password "passwurd")
Ho hum... yet another pointless arms race of the state against the citizen.
Sky subscribers are morons. They pay to be advertised at !
So, now if you have an enemy you can throw a torrent tracker on their machine and the government seizes it?
When did the Department of Justice become the lap-dogs of the media cartels?
What the hell does an FDA official have to do with copyright?
Why does the bill allow language accommodating the abusive unitary executive theory still championed by this administration?
Why tell the AG to prioritize criminal and commercial infringement (i.e. actual piracy), but still give him the ability to litigate civil suits on the cartels' behalf? Do they think he doesn't have enough shit to do?
Welcome to Fascist America, we just got finished making a mini-Gestapo. Enjoy your stay, and if you carry any copyrighted content, we're going to sue the pants off of you.
"We are Microsoft. You shall be assimilated. Competition is futile."
If they were in fact natural rights, it would not have been necessary to enshrine them in law.
Your second and third sentences are irrelevant as one of the first 10 amendments spells out exactly that.
There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
It's time to blow up federal buildings.
Andy Out!
You miss the point, they don't need evidence. All they need is suspicion to seize your property, and good luck ever getting it back.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
I can picture it now! We'll call them "firemen" and they'll wear a badge that says "451". I mean, if we're gonna do it, we may as well do it with some style!
Allow me to dispel your insinuations that this department is currently doing the equivalent of what is being proposed.
From their web site ...
Having a department whose job it is to enforce federal statutes on behalf of injured parties is in no way the same as the investigation and enforcement on behalf of large corporate interests.
The presence of the word "civil" in both titles doesn't change the fact that the federal government does not pursue "civil" cases on behalf of companies, and never has. Enforcing the "civil" rights of people is a completely different thing. I suspect you know this, but choose to ignore the distinction.
Cheers
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
So the EIPA will take up civil suits involving IP cases. So what if the EIPA seize an entire server farm on behalf of the RIAA which results in the infringement of some innocent 3rd parties IP (e.g. their website, copyrighted materials, etc) and costs them revenue due to illegal seizure of their IP?
Could that 3rd person leverage the free civil suit clauses of the EIPA to bring suit against the EIPA for infringement?
The way things are going, Americans are going to have to make a choice... not Obama vs McCain, but USA vs Elsewhere.
It's pretty obvious there are some truly corrupt people at work here, making all these over-reaching zero-accountability decisions that favor big media. One solution is to fight these bastards at every opportunity - lawsuits, protests, awareness campaigns. The other is to flee and let them destroy what's left of the nation that once stood for freedom. When there's no one left to sue, these tyrants will wither and die, and the country will be ready to be reclaimed.
Hey... if it's _YOUR_ country, it is _YOUR_ responsibility to protect it. If the enemy is the government, well... you should know what to do.
-Billco, Fnarg.com
This is a very scary precedent, and it seems to blur some historical distinctions between federal agencies and private interests.
I don't think I'm being hyperbolic when I say, we are moving closer and closer to fascism in this country.
We want some answers and all that we get
Some kind of shit about a terrorist threat
- Ministry
D-VT D-IN IF you are in these states, please write and email, send a fax and an email. This MAFIAA money behind them though, so I hope your letters do some good.
Likewise illegal information: if it's worth paying for, pay for it. If you do not wish to pay for it, find something else to entertain yourself with. Encourage and contribute to alternatives, even if they aren't quite ready for prime time. Posted anon for obvious reasons.
Also, a basic understanding of technology that you are using will encourage responsible behaviours if you wish to be irresponsible.
And as likely to succeed as all the others.
No sig today...
Comment removed based on user account deletion
These clandestine moves are all excellent ideas for those of [us] that are handling large stashes, but it seems to me that this bill actually helps the average 100MB, row-boat pirate (ie. moms of dumb kids).
Please offer an antithesis if you have one, but this bill seems to lump the responsibility of enforcement on the Attorney General. And recently, (esp. in the Bush Administration) enforcement has been curtailed, leaving only certain crimes to be pursued by the nations limited man-power. And the AG may genuflect to record companies from time to time, but as long as there's still a healthy war on drugs, this issue will likely take a back seat in the AG's office.
The bill may have been initiated for the purpose of protecting ordinary people, because now the government has to delegate attorneys, and they're not going to waste time and money on small payloads (unlike the RIAA)."
This is okay for the rest of us too, because not many of us have the assets to make a civil case worth government's time, and it seems to me (maybe I'm wrong) in the wording of the bill that we don't have to worry about criminal cases... Hooray for healthy sphincters!
I have a song in my head, and I think the copyright police are on to me. I need a good hiding spot.
This is a very scary precedent, and it seems to blur some historical distinctions between federal agencies and private interests.
Thats not what is really scary, it is - but not as bad as what is to come from all of this down the road. The "Federal Government" will now be getting into "civil affairs" (and the government is immune to law suits AFAIK - IANAL though) which is a contradiction in terms and with the power to take *entire* server farms with no recourse - it just adds more power for those who are in the right spot to do as they want. If this was in place a few days ago when the Sci-Pots declared thousands of said infringements on youtube - the government would have had the power to go in permanently shut down the ENTIRE operation, regardless if it was b.s. in the first place or not.
All in all, what is really scary is that when you give someone an inch - the next guy down the road is going to go for the mile, and eventually gets it... This is just another nail in our coffin when your precious government can storm down your door and take your life style away from you - just because of a suspicious accusation from some elite entity, that kind of sounds familiar for some reason - don't know why though...
Mark these words, right now they can only take the things that provide you your life style. It won't be long (5-10 yrs max) before they will be taking your life - IE: throwing you behind bars for decades. All that needs to happen, is that this "civil matter" turn to a federal crime since the feds are dealing with it anyway and they only deal in criminal matters.
I finally understand why people hate lawyers now! Thanks RIAA. You actually did something good. Now shoo, the new market is going to kill off the companies you work for no matter what legislation are passed, since piracy isn't killing music.
... but let's think about this. Which would you prefer in this situation? Would you rather the RIAA be in charge of investigating and prosecuting file sharers, or would you rather a force at least represented by the government, whom you elect? At least the government is not driven purely by profit.
You know, there is a difference between trolling and pointing out the flaws in your reasoning. Just saying.
Why am I thinking of Keystone Kops...
Pull your collective HEAD out of your collective ASS.
...It is refreshing to find out that US senate is just as clueless and sold-out to .corp as any other.
NO SIG
why worry about infringing on the rights of innocent if it means a couple people can commit crime... only they would rationalize its far better to just screw over everybody. gotta do what they can to keep those lawyers busy. After all when the courts rule the RIAA's agents are violating the laws aggregiously in their "investigations" clearly that means you have to get a gov't funded group to do it and make it legal for them..
this is the kind of crap our FEDERAL govt has no business wasting its time on.
"Jazz isn't dead, it just smells funny" ~Frank Zappa
EdelFactor
Funny how our Government and Of the people by the people politicians are more and more like a cross between the KGB and the 3rd Reich.
Don't accidently do anything wrong or you will get prison, fines, and have your computer auctioned off for $50 at a wholesale Govt auction.
Who lets these decision makers into Office?
The music and stories of the culture are the property of the culture. They are part and parcel of that culture. The copyright law was to make sure artists got paid. Greedy middle men who have stolen from us and the artists at every opportunity have no rightful claim to anything.
Which means in the context of modern society, it's fairly integrated. Especially when one's life is governed by money.
Scarcity in what aspect, copies? Copies are infinite. The value (and cost) all lies in the creation of the work. It doesn't matter what the DVD costs (if anything) to produce, but what the content on it did.
Few and far between. Oh and I hope you like what those wealthy people like, because only what they like is going to get made. Sometimes you will, most of the time you probably won't.
Well then obviously the current laws are wrong, not copyright as a concept.
Most people's sense of "fairness" is "take all I can, screw the other guy."
Unfortunately, if the result of the Information Age is to destroy copyright, then things will return to the old world of Trade Secrets and Trade Guilds, where things are kept in secret, hidden from view and potentially lost when its creators die. Or significantly fewer people will participate in creation of works that would otherwise be copyrightable, because it will be entirely unprofitable and they have to earn a living some how.
Or we just enjoy what the rich enjoy. Which they would likely go through great efforts to keep to themselves.
If this had been law about 5 years ago, then Milonic Solutions, a UK-based software company, would have been able to have push for the seizure of government servers hosting Senator Orrin Hatch's webpage. Slashdot covered the story back then. I wonder if anyone on the Senate Judiciary Committee remembers that -- and I wonder how many of them would have their own computers seized if they were the first to be searched.
I wonder if the new copyright cops will get tanks and guns or will be a part of DHS so they can make warrantless house intrusions and take equipment before evidence is destroyed. It's all perfectly logical how they would NEED certain military style hardware and no-knock entry authority to do their job, right? After all, their JOB will absolutely require unannounced home intrusion, just like you'd expect against violent criminals, gang hideouts, and drug labs.
Hell, if these guys show up *without* SWAT style tactics, they might reasonably expect to get shot by homeowners objecting to people busting into their houses to steal their computers.
Knock Knock
Who is it?
Copyright cops. Let us in and we're going to take your stereo, all your CDs, all your computers, and all storage media in the house, both analog and digital. Trust us, we're from the government, and we're coming in whether or not you give us permission since if we wait until you get warrant confirmation, you might have erased all evidence.
*door opens*
Gunfire follows as homeowner defends property from intruders without proof of law enforcement status
The obvious solution is to give the cops a tank and disarm the homeowner...
First of all, they do need evidence. They need enough evidence to meet probable cause to get a judge to sign a warent to enter your home. They DO have a burden of proof to meet, and that IS constitutionally protected. As far as seizure, if the judge OK's seisure, you're also protected under the constitution to a speedy trial. The courts will likely rule pretty quick that they can copy an image of your system for further investigation, but since forensics on a PC can be done in a few days tops, if they can't provide further proof of illegal activity to a court quickly, a lawyer will very quickly have that system released back into your hands (likely with blank hard drives, but if you're not backing up, that's your fault!). If you;re found innocent, provided there was both a burden of proof, and due process, you can't sue the government for loos of use, but if the system was physically damaged (not data lossm, but damage or extended unreasonably loos of use) then you do have a case, nut only for minor compensation.
Honestly though, this is not about creating a govenrment body to do the RIAA's bidding, it;s about creating a government body so that we can make the RIAA stop! individuals and the media alike are causing swells in the voter community regarding the RIAA, and though it's currently a minor issue, it IS an issue. Likely more imnportant is the fact that the RIAA is pissing off large universities, schools that give candidates a HUGE boost with campaign finance, open public forums to speak in, and more. I'm sure the senators want to see this harassmenty of their voter base end as soon as is possible.
Once this agency takes over, the RIAA is rendered virtually powerless. They'll be outside the law and open to direct criminal prosecution for their actions if they continue on their current track.
Equally, this agency might go looking for some big, press worthy targets, but they're not interested in pissing off the same pool of people the RIAA is.
Besides, the RIAA ius a bunch of nut jobs, eager to do anything they can, and paid extremely well for their efforts. If it all falls apart, either way, they all got rich trying. On the government side of the picture, we're talking about career law enforcement salaries here. These guys not only will NOT be rich if they get fired because they got the agency sued, it ends their careers as well. The RIAA guys are businessmen, and can get another job in their field. A cop gets fired, he's going to low budget security work. Not exactly appealing.
These guys, just like the NYC cops who seize the cars of drunk drivers, will overlook questionable cases and only go for the sure wins. They can'ty afford to make mistakes. If they can be absolutely certain you're stealing files, and can convince a judge of the same, then come in and take your system, odds are, you WILL be guilty. It's a big enough expense to prove themselves right, especially since they'll likely never see any real money back from it and putting you in prison only costs more, but LOOSING a case could cost them millions, and the government does NOT take that kind of risk lightly.
They do not need "suspicion" they need to overcome warentable burden of proof. Failure to return property to an innocent is a violation of the constitution, and people who make government wage will be fired if this is an issue on any level. It's called personal accountabiulity, and the RIAA does not currently have that, so it;s a problem that must be resolved.
Many think it might just be easier to outlaw the RIAA's activities, but doing so has too many side effects. 1) since there is no government organization doing the same, it basically gives us all free license to start sharing, since only gross violaters would ever be noticed by the FBI, the only other fallback. 2) it would also limit PIs all over the country, as well as smaller government offeces. We can't stop the RIAA's activitys alone, we have to offer a legal substitute.
This agency may have a completely flawedf desig
There is no contest in life for which the unprepared have the advantage.
or you could just buy the music you want to listen to, and support the artists who recorded it?
A lot simpler, fairer and more reasonable way to live surely?
DRM-free indie games for the PC and Mac: Positech Games
Lots of small businesses and groups used shared hosting where sometimes hundreds of domains are all hosted on a single server. If one domain with some files it shouldn't have is going to result in the entire server being seized the value of shared hosting is going to go down the tubes.
I think what this represents is further erosion and lowering of the standards of evidence. It also represents injustice, it's a perfectly unjust and unfair law, it's criminal and immoral.
The US is moving beyond innocent until proven guilty, and beyond the need for evidence, and becoming a country where mere suspicion or allegation is enough to land you in a world of trouble.
We already know there's no way to prove beyond a doubt, without catching someone in the act, that they are downloading copyrighted material. If all you have are logs, you've got no real evidence.
Horrible, horrible things are going to happen! And their gonna happen to you, and you, and you! People of Slashdot, heed this warning! A twisted tail! A thousand eyes! Trapped forever! EIPA! EIPA! EIPA!
I agree with much of what you wrote, so I'll concentrate on just the interesting parts or disagreements here.
Oh and I hope you like what those wealthy people like, because only what they like is going to get made. Sometimes you will, most of the time you probably won't.
In this discussion, the behaviour of rich Big Media organisations and rich politicians is being criticised from all over the place. At the same time, the critics seem to be proposing abolishing the primary mechanism through which average people can collaborate to support producing works. Irony, much? :-)
Most people's sense of "fairness" is "take all I can, screw the other guy."
Here, we disagree. I think most people's sense of fairness does mean compensating someone to a reasonable extent for their efforts.
IME, the big objections in copyright debates are usually about the middlemen such as the **AA organisations, who have taken advantage of copyright laws that are in their own interests, while somehow simultaneously avoiding other laws that are designed to constrain pricing in non-competitive markets. The result is that people who are not the artists are selling artistic works at artificially high prices. Consumers see no reason they should pay a middleman who they perceive to be ripping them off, and view copyright infringement via downloads and such as screwing the unfair middleman, and therefore ethical.
Of course, this is a problem with the current implementation of copyright, not with the underlying principle. In previous discussions, we (various Slashdot posters) have suggested a range of alternatives that are faithful to the basic idea of copyright, but would shift the balance way back towards benefiting the artist and the consumer rather than the middleman, leaving the latter to make a profit only if they provide a valuable service to artists and/or consumers in a competitive market. If we moved back in that direction, I don't think most people would consider it fair to rip works at the expense of the people who actually worked hard to make them, and I think the law in this area would deserve a lot more respect generally.
If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
IANACL, but I believe this law as written is unconstitutional and will be struck down. Why? Not the coordination provisions, but the seizure ones. We still have a constitutional requirement for due process and a presumption of innocence, and I believe that as long as we don't have any more whackjobs appointed to the Supreme Court, we'll see these blatant power grabs struck down.
So basically once the ramifications of this law is understood businesses will want their data to be separate from anyone else's data because *they* might infringe. So there will be a lot more machines and virtual machines in data centres.
So now not only is the RIAA/MPAA stifling innovation in I.T and their own industry, but every other industry has to compensate them with indirect costs.
My ism, it's full of beliefs.
This is funny.
A bill drafted by the commun**** err I mean, Democrats. introduced by Biden, but then he doesn't even vote on his own bill! Any earmarks to be found in or around it?
But seriously, this is no different than the fact that if you grow marijuana or cook meth in a rental house, and get caught, the owner of the house can lose his house because of your actions.
No different, I mean. Break the law, and expect NOT to have someone to catch you? Might not agree with IP police, but at the same time, the law is the law, and Obama's VP pick wants to keep it that way.
I suggest the Obama fanboi's remember this come election day. I mean, it pissed me off to read it, and I'm NOT a fan of Obama. He might make a good president, but he has no real track record other than being able to excite the masses.
The last person elected like that had a funny mustache and hated people of Yiddish decent, although he was himself.
--Toll_Free
You need to start using habits like the Jews had to use in WWII Germany.. take your drive and hide it well
That really set me on a scary train of thought... I had visions of storing the USB drive where Papillon stored his stuff :P ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papillon_(autobiography) )
There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
Now, now... intellectual property has been in our law books for over a century now. I doubt anyone still remembers the times when it was free for picking.
Saying that we couldn't have gotten used to it yet is like saying car accidents are due to people not being used to traveling at speeds faster than 20 mph because you can't run faster.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
It's truly sad if the USA has a revolution, not because of stuff like the sub prime disaster or Enron, or the Iraq war fiasco or the pathetic situation regarding state health care, or income inequality or Katrina or the governments inaction on climate change or support for creationism..... ... but because a lot of geeks think they should have free MP3s.
DRM-free indie games for the PC and Mac: Positech Games
They have already started this in some Texas schools by offering the students to 'rat' on their friends. They get cash for things like tobacco, weapons, drugs, etc. Turn somebody in that brings this on campus and get $25 tobacco, $50 weapons and $125 drugs.
Sad . . . So Sad
What else do you expect from Capitalist Democracy though?
Consider:
How can you believe in Capitalism if you don't accept that rich people and companies have the right to give large sums to politicians? Given that they have that right, how can you expect them to do anything other than lobby for their own self-interest?
Under Capitalism there will always be this pressure. In any society economic power is the most important power; whoever controls the means of production (showing my socialist bias, I know :) ) controls the shape of society.
Maybe if we moved to a system of workers co-operatives? If we banned the stock market and made all organisations owned by the workers then the concentration of wealth wouldn't be as severe. I'm not arguing for monolithic socialist/maoist/stanlist monopolies, just the same system we have now with everything owned by workers instead of financial institutions.
I think it'd come closer to the ideal of companies competing in free markets to win over consumers on the basis of better/cheaper products. I doubt it could be worse than the current situation!
Nick
This suggestion is going to be modded to oblivion, but...
Remember, any bill must be signed by the President to become law (modulo veto overrides et al.). Hold your nose and write to Bush.
Ask him to veto this law should it come across his desk. Use his own language and prejudices in your favor. Use terms like "Unwarranted government intrusion into business", and "liberal Hollywood elite".
Disclaimer: In the last two elections I voted neither Democrat nor Recpublican.
Fascism starts when the efficiency of the government becomes more important than the rights of the people.
Without proper regulation and oversight, capitalism leads to socialism, but only for the rich and politically connected. Capitalism allows the unfettered accumulation of capital. Capital equals power to change the system, either through economic coercion or manipulation of the legal system, which brings in more capital in a never ending positive feedback loop. The more money you have, the more control you have over other people's lives. We not only accept this basic injustice, we celebrate it as good, just, and moral. It isn't, any more than using any other form of power to screw people over.
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
Setting aside the morality of this proposed law, my question is: will this law be available to everyone? I've made one video in my life. Sometime later it was snatched from my website without my permission and posted to a video sharing site. Somehow I doubt with this new law that I will be able to call up the Office of Copyright Enforcement (or whatever they end up calling it) and have the servers of the major video sharing site seized.
It's been well documented on slashdot, and other sights, the slow erosion of personal liberties, and expansion of search and seizure laws. So now, while the country is crying out for more support to fight poverty, prosecute child abuse, reform health care, and a myriad of other social problems, we are now going to expand government to make a federal criminal of little 13 year old Suzie Normal, plunge her family into financial crisis, and seize their property, all because she downloaded the latest Jonas Brothers song from a Japanese website. I suppose I should be happy that entertainment much better than any thing the media outlets can produce is coming my way. I get to sit and watch the slow motion crumbling of the great American society. And sadly, until it affects them, most people don't know, or even care what is creeping up on them. So Sad.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Everyone, contact your congressmen and senators. Tell others to do the same. If we get a public outcry about this - not just us flailing about aimlessly on slashdot preaching to the choir, maybe this wont even get to the President's desk. Write emails, call them, etc.
The **AAs are mistaken if they think this is really going to work. Sure, ask the federal government law enforcement powers to take over. It's not like the FBI or AG have anything else to do and have plenty of time and money to pursue everyone violating copyright, right?
It seems to me the plan is that the **AAs are doing this to try to save money- using taxpayers to pay for lawyers and persecution (not a typo) and they can shut down some of their own operations. I'm sure donating campaign funds to these jerks is cheaper than a staff of lawyers. What they don't realize is that gov't is inefficient and the law enforcement groups are underfunded and understaffed. When the FBI starts raiding basements for geeks and their computers it's going to look bad when they aren't looking for terrorists. This is actually a good thing.
1) Steal the public domain
2) Divert tax money to support your thieving (that's the copyright cops)
3) Steal the hardware of the public by accusation of theft by the public
4) Profit!
Honestly, all the talk I hear of IP theft from the entertainment industry, and so few yell that they have effectively stolen the WHOLE of the public domain (which was supposed to be there to allow culture to be accessible by all, and to help it grow!).
for, i, like many other datacenter customers, have started looking for a european datacenter to relocate my server. my server was hosted in a big datacenter in texas until today, for 7 years straight.
sorry, but we cant take this much of shit even if prices are low there. i'd pay double, but stay safe.
it is unimaginable how one group of greedy bastards like riaa fucktards can kill an ENTIRE I.T. industry in one country. unbelievable.
u.s. datacenters, say bye to business
Read radical news here
you're right...the actual target is p2p. looks like the riaa mpaa has gotten the government to do its dirty work.how long do you think, before they circumvent the dmca restriction?
Maybe it's a good moment to point people to Richard Stallman's story the right to read and scream "this guy warned you, did you listen?"
Mind you, the majority of the lemmings will ignore this and cheerfully follow the leader into the ocean.
I think it might work out really well if copyright was reformulated as right-of-sale. I write a book? I get to profit from selling it for some period of time. If someone else wants to sell it, they have to deal with me. If someone else wants to copy it and distribute it for free, well, tough beans for me.
That way, if Apple wants to charge for access to a well organized, high quality library of music, they have to pay the artists, but if they want to give it away to prop up their hardware sales, that is their business.
Under such a system, the artists (and the people sitting in front of them) probably wouldn't get as much money, but their works wouldn't so easily get exploited by people with more money as they would in a total free for all.
Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
how about just get a gun? Let them pry my computer from my cold dead hands
That's great, but at least they have my el-cheapo gear and not my ass in the big bubba love-in prison from the information STORED on that device.
you care about your computer, I care about me.
Has everyone overlooked threats other than RIAA/MPAA? Such as: What will Scientology do, once they are able to have critics arrested and all materials taken by armed police, not just harassed?
lets see, your site is hosted on a shared hosting, and on a box/cluster that also hosts 300 other sites.
some fat bastard or some riaa shit somewhere thinks that his/her i.p. is being violated on a site, and files an injunction. then ENTIRE cluster/box gets seized.
voila - you go to get your data back, and you get at least a week of downtime in the process.
one week of downtime would be near fatal for any small business. not to mention what it would do to business of the web hsot.
so it doesnt matter a single zit on a peep's face whether law allows your data to be reacquired or not. TIME cant be taken back.
its time you stopped electing stupid people into senate. start with not electing this year's stupid duo. you know who they are.
Read radical news here
This bets the "DHS discount" by a long shot.
Hey look, Peterson got a new 50" plasma.
Betcha he's viewing illegal stuff on it.
We "have to" seize that.
It's our patriotic duty.
Obama's legacy: (N)othing (S)ecure (A)nywhere and (T)error (S)imulation (A)dministration
Why do you fucking stupid ass people keep voting for republicans and democrats?! WHY? What the fuck do you expect? Nothing is going to change unless we get rid of these people. That means putting in NEW people, not associated with these parties into office.
VOTE for independent candidates, get your ass out there... and do something.
Sitting on slashdot and writing a bitch comment, or an intelligent one... aint going do it folks!
Get the fuck out there.... and get some new people elected. RUN yourself... I dont care, just do something other than vote for a republican or democrat, or anyone else that may have the same mindset, who's only interest it is, is to make money, and rule over you, at the cost of your freedom.
Oh this doesnt effect any of the politicians children who may be torrenting porn, or whatever else... They're above the law. You're not.
You're only option is to write all of tehse fuckers... and threaten them. Tell them "If you support this... you're out of office... You will not get my vote. I and others will make sure that you are not elected another term ever"
Then go VOTE for someone else already....
This wont change. America is a fucking shithole. I hate this country. It is so full of shit. You ever wonder why the rest of the world hates us? Because for years they've seen the bullshit clearly.... Everyone except England of course.... because England is fucking worse than us. And if you remember this little thing called the American Revolutionary War... We fought to rid ourselves of the English. Now a days, we just want to be like them.
FUCK AMERICA. I'm tired of it.
"IP COPS"
Theme song:
Bad boys, Bad boys, Bad boys
What are gonna do?
What are gonna do when they come for you?!
CD sounds OK. ...
To bad you copied it on your MP-trey
Hey, hey!
Obama's legacy: (N)othing (S)ecure (A)nywhere and (T)error (S)imulation (A)dministration
See the thing is that server farms hold all kinds of servers. Your little personal website can be sitting right next to a big company's big important server. So, if they start grabbing equipment left and right, they are going to get a lot of pissed off people, and some of those people are going to have money and lawyers.
The reason why you don't see so many challenges of the warrantless cash seizures is because it is a targeted kind of thing. If the cops pull you over and seize a bunch of your cash, that doesn't affect me if I'm in a car right behind you. Thus it is easy for me not to care. Also, you discover that generally those with money/power aren't affected by this because they don't use cash very much.
Well this is real different. Now there is collateral damage. It's be the same as in the earlier situation if they seized your cash, and then drained my bank account since I happened to be in a car behind you. Now suddenly I'm much more likely to care and to bitch since I wasn't even involved.
So I doubt it'll take too many seizures at datacentres before those with money and power get hit and thus start fighting back.
Encrypt your hadrives. Install windows as a honey pot default operating system, put a bunch of BS word docs that look like convincing computer usage. Have a hidden encrypted linux drive with boot loader disabled (only pops up with hot key or usb key). Continue pirating from non facist countries. Finally, rig your laptop with thermite. Claim you had sensitive financial information. When copy right cops steal property, they lose their hands. Please include a thermite warning and that the operator opens the laptop at their own risk. hehe
Trying to install linux on my microwave, but keep getting a kernel panic...
What the Senate believes about the law and what the laws actually accomplishes are two different things.
Ah... Freedom. Isnt America Great?
Your advice is very helpful but i must add this.... Everyone should keep their money and valuables stored in their assholes. Perhaps storing a USB flash drive in your asshole is a good idea as well. This way if your computers are taken, you will have your evidence stored in your ass. No cop will think to look there. Well not for 5 years maybe. But i'm sure once they build the prison bars around our houses, and force us to build mandatory solar paneling on our roofs.... we will probably have ass cavity searches at that point.
Well look, i dont know about you, but i trust my American Rulers. They know better. They respresent us, so i'm very confident that my rights will be upheld and i can safely go on ignoring government and not being involved with the process at all. They'll take care of it for me.
America sucks dick. FUCK AMERICA.. DIE.
such shit dont pass there. of course, apart from the uk, which has already become a TOTAL joke in regard to anything democratic and modern.
i reckon belgium or holland , or both are going to become the new datacenter center of the world, if this shit passes through.
Read radical news here
Quick, put all of your infringing files on S3! Let's see how long it takes them to seize Amazon's entire infrastructure.
USA DOJ DDOS FTW!
Unless you are replying to someone besides Alaren that's hidden by my settings, well, nice job at missing the point utterly, entirely, and completely. Did you even actually read what he wrote? If so, your reading comprehension skills are also utterly, entirely, and completely blindered by your preconceptions.
Email senators: http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm
I oppose S. 3325, the Enforcement of Intellectual Property Rights Act of 2008. Not only does this bill create more financial responsibilities the country can't afford, but it turns a civil matter of copyright infringement into another expansion of government.
It also asks all levels of government to spend more time on intellectual property rights enforcement, which I believe is not something that deserves "high priority" status. Moreover, the seizure provisions of this bill will inevitably harm innocent people in technology, which are documented at http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080911-committee-amends-approves-enormous-gift-to-big-content.html.
Please vote against S. 3325, the Enforcement of Intellectual Property Rights Act of 2008 and keep the government from growing into another area of monitoring our freedoms.
I don't think server farms are where they'll start. Think, instead, of raids on university dorms and private residences. The RIAA will just collect a list of IP addresses and have the cops go and collect all the computers associated with them.
This is far from a law. This is the right time to challenge the proposed bill. But it has yet to go through the remainder of the U.S. civic process and hopefully will not. /. needs a few more civic classes I think. The article states it was a committee, but it seems the responses miss that, to quote "This is another stupid law the U.S. has made!" No, it isn't, yet.
A Committee Approved of a bill - the judiciary committee. It still has to be voted on at the floor by the general assembly who must approve it for it to get anywhere. Then the house has to approve a significantly similar bill. Then you actually have to get the next [more likely than the current] President to vote for it.
I think if we pool together this one can be stopped as a trespass upon our civil rights.
Thanks for modding me down.
Dumbshit...you can't even spell "Flamebait", get fucking Firefox 2 or 3 twat before you shoot of your ignorant mouth.
It's time to start shooting the fuckers. If droves of people with rifles shooting up RIAA/MPAA offices and congress doesn't make them think, not a lot will. And yes, of course peaceful protests are useful/neccessary, but perhaps we have passed that point? I'm willing to die to make a point about this, how about you folks?
If people would just stop buying music from them, they wouldn't survive long. But apparently the music is more important than the indignation. If people were to stop buying from RIAA companies, the artists would release their works elsewhere.
I agree. There are very many reasons why the people should revolt, but it is usually the small innoucuous, and proverbial straw on the camel's back that eventually ignites the uproar.
Well one answer is to make sure we don't vote these people back into office. The authors of the bill are:
Senators
Patrick J. Leahy
Arlen Specter
Evan Bayh
George V. Voinovich
Dianne Feinstein
John Cornyn
Be careful whom you vote for. They may make laws you don't like.
-D
> Dude, did you read TFA? Because, if the way ars describes it is accurate, the whole law is pretty much inflammatory.
Feel free to read the EIPA for yourself. Anyone who says I'm making this up is encouraged to cite whichever part of the law they think I got wrong.
I mean, this *is* a bill that contains this statement in its "findings" --
"(20) The Department of the Treasury's Office of Terrorism and Financial Intelligence would be an effective tool in combating intellectual property theft."
That's right. They want to use the people who fight terrorism for this. Shouldn't they, I don't know, worry more about terrorists than infringement?
- I Don't Believe in Imaginary Property
Well now the problem is, legal or not, they have a law that cannot be effectively enforced.
This will lower their public imagine even more (both the RIAA and the governments) because now they are stuck trying to enforce a law that nobody thinks should exist. Theres a fuckload more people than cops out there, laws work because most of us follow them without being told to. When nobody follows a law because its seen as bad the law not only fails it backfires, a law you can't enforce makes you look stupid, weakens your authority, and kills confidence in the process.
these copyright cops still have all the same problems regular cops would have, namely simply identifying people to target, worse, its a government agency, another bureaucracy. When is the last time you saw a government agency operate efficiently? It will also be bound under a whole host of restrictions as a federal agency. The RIAA never had to worry about probable cause, jurisdiction, or warrants.
Even better this new agency will be subject to FOIA requests, and its now spending out tax dollars. Writing to your representative and asking him why your tax dollars are being spent on this instead of (insert any topic here more notable than protecting an outdated business model), why all these new "Officers" are busy looking for people downloading music when (insert unsolved missing persons case here) is still missing, surely finding little Suzy is more important that some kid downloading nirvana?
These are your tax dollars folk, by making this a government deal they've given us power over it, make sure your representatives know that this is a waste of your tax dollars, better yet, make sure they know your campaign contributions stop/go elsewhere as long as money is being wasted on this service. IF you really want to squeeze them make a donation to a nice charitable organization like the FSF or ACLU (its tax deductable!) and mail your receipt along with a letter to your representative. Explain that that money would have been a contribution, and why its not.
The record business HAS moved into the 21st century. iTunes, Amazon and others allow you to buy music online for cheap, and in most cases it's not even DRM-encumbered anymore. What's more, indie record labels have exploded and most of them allow you to download music straight from them instead of going through a big label.
You don't have a good excuse anymore. Stop stealing music you morons,
I'm the guy with the unpopular opinion
does this mean we're going to see specials at the computer shops like "buy a new hard drive, get a FREE GUN" ???
you forgot toadd youe...
ALLALALALALALALH! Long live allah! die american pigs!
ALAALALALALALALALAL!
and the towel on your head, get one of those as well.
There you go, now you look the part.
So when they go try to confiscate Google's entire infrastructure to root out the "infringer," they get to fight Google's army of lawyers.
grey wolf
LET FORTRAN DIE!
Seriously, this is just stupid and all, but what I'd really like to know is how much money of our taxes is going to this Copyright Czar project? And at a time when the economy is about to collapse...
I see this as an enforcement arm for spying on buisiness and stealing secrets in the name of protecting copyrights as a ruse. They could essentially find out what company A might be up to by seizing computers claimed to be used in crime as they call it such. They now search computers coming into the US or leaving for purposes which I bet have more than terrorism in mind. If new technologies get crushed and undeveloped it will be people using these kinds of laws to hold information back and to classify research deemed a threat to national security. They are attempting to criminalize thinking, after all you can hum a song in your head, therefore you are infringing a copyright, since merely copying the song into your brain would still technically be stealing in their worldview. People dld because they have had recording technologies like the cassette tape or VHS for decades. To imply now that all of that was illegal or should be illgal seems about 30-40 years after the fact, meaning they appear to be criminalizing a large share of the population by this measure, the point of view that has been articulated appears to me to fail to live up to any kind of realizable effect. This would be like setting up a vehicle inspection police that would take your car away if you used it to go to places unauthorized by the manufacture. Or if you used too much electricity and were deemed a threat to the environment and had your power turned off to protect the polar bears. These laws merely move power from the domain of the computer user into the domain of the courtroom and attempt to negate the balance of power that has been redistributed back into the hands of the state. The state surely wants a monopoly on information by engaging in producing these stated laws. They simply think that by creating a monopoly of distribution they can scare people into their distribution. When in fact you could buy music recordings made by artists and never buy a coprorate recording ever again, that my friends would be why they want a regulated market so they can destroy competition which has also eroded their disribution monopoly. Too bad they appear inent on destroying the whole point of music which was to have fun. Not much fun in listeing to music if you can't listen to what you want.
At this point i'm quite serious in that I wish to emigrate from the US to canada.
As a brand new college graduate, however, I think I'm fighting an uphill battle.
Are there any (dedicated) resources through which I can seek skilled canadian employment? Such as a "career builder" specifically for canadian employers seeking foreign talent?
VLC FOR MAC IS DYING! IF YOU DEVELOP, PLEASE SAVE IT!!
"Socialism for the rich"??? You Americans have a really, really warped idea of what "socialism" means. Apparently it means something like "anything and everything I dislike". Sheesh. It is insulting.
Unfortunately, if the result of the Information Age is to destroy copyright, then things will return to the old world of Trade Secrets and Trade Guilds, where things are kept in secret, hidden from view and potentially lost when its creators die. Or significantly fewer people will participate in creation of works that would otherwise be copyrightable, because it will be entirely unprofitable and they have to earn a living some how.
1st, sorry for posting anon, can't sign in while at work.
and second, how is that any different to now?
Copyright holders frequently hoard their works, using copyright to prevent Any and All distribution, because their idea of distribution is to 'not do it'
Not only can you get thrown in jail now by the copyright cops for making a single copy of this guys work 68 years after he is dead, but how does either of those help the world?
Besides, copyright was a two part deal.
A) the public is restricted for a short time in what they are allowed to do with said work of art, and
B) the artist of said work of art must as payment for A release their work to the public domain for the rest of us when that time is up.
It was the majority of artists (ok, in fairness, media cartels such as MPAA/RIAA members, and a small few artists) who went back on B with things such as changing 'copyright lasts 14 years after the work was made, with one renewal' into 'copyright lasts for 70 years after the person who we are giving this incentive to is dead!' and crap like DRM to assure that any copies bought legally will also never enter the public domain.
If you stop paying your rent, you get evicted. If you stop paying your bills, services get shut off.
If the artists want to stop paying for copyright, we (the people) clearly don't have a problem with that in this day and age.
And if they wouldn't mind paying as per the original agreement, well, it may be too late for that now, it's hard to say for sure. After being screwed over on the deal for so long, I can't see many people believing the record labels at face value anymore.
-- Dissy (172727)
The courts will likely rule pretty quick that they can copy an image of your system for further investigation, but since forensics on a PC can be done in a few days tops, if they can't provide further proof of illegal activity to a court quickly, a lawyer will very quickly have that system released back into your hands (likely with blank hard drives, but if you're not backing up, that's your fault!).
Backup what? What normal people call backups, they call illegal, pirated copies. Backup my MP3s - ripped from my CDs or bought from Amazon - how do I prove it with all my evidence gone? All your backups will be stolen by the gubblemint because those are more potentially infringing pieces of evidence. You will truly need off-site backup. Since they will background check your whole person, you will need one they don't know about. You will be shutdown. No cash. No PC. No phone numbers. No MP3 storing phone/car/PDA/thumbdrive. Every-fucking thing.
No, I did not mean it that way. But Americans in general do look down on socialism, and so I like to point out that what we do IS akin to socialism, but only for the wealthy. I would prefer America had more socialism for the average person, rather than having all our tax dollars go to handouts and tax breaks for the owning class.
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
Which is pretty much everyone. Good move. Make us all presumed criminals.
Once this signed into law, when does the random stopping of people with earphones on the street demanding proof of purchase for contents of their ipods and searching laptops start?
Im so glad we have taken care of all the real problems in the world and can waste my tax dollars protecting an outdated cartel from themselves.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Wont be any better up there.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
I am horrible at writing letters to my congressmen and senators, has anyone written a good thought out and clearly stated letter to write to your congressmen and senators and complain why this should not be passed?
I do use bittorrent to download music....from Jamendo. It isn't just the Music industry that needs to change folks. It's us as well.
The best way to get rid of copyrighted/drm'd music is just to not use it. Either listen to free music (you can donate if you want) or create your own. Either way, we will all be better for it.
Oh my god, I'm a fanboy! Arghhhhh!
I reserve the write to mangle english.
Ah ok, that makes sense.
I don't mind people having arguments against socialism (or anything else, really), since it has various negative sides, but I do wish people (in general, not you, and not just /.) would advance arguments that are somewhat relevant and to the point.
(end of rant, sorry about that)
Sandbags, are you really that naive?
Warrants: Ask the people on Twin Peaks, Minessota if police had any warrant to enter the house of all those RNC protesters. In fact, when a woman went out to ask for the warrant, the police took her away.
Equipment Returned: Well, what about all of those laptops being picked out at the borders? All i have heard is that none have been returned so far.
RIAA getting powerless? Are you drinking their Kool Aid? The RIAA will be their scouts! They will point them out and the Kops will simply reel you in.
Comon, nobody can be that naive
No!
As upset as I am with the things they're doing, I do not advocate violence. They already call us "terrorists" because we question the value of the laws they bought. I would never stoop to actually become what they accuse us of being. Then, I would be down on the RIAA's level.
I suggest writing Congress, instead. And, more importantly, trying to run for Congress (or helping reasonable people to do so). There are plenty of "safe" districts for one party or another and the incumbents all retire eventually. A motivated pool of private citizens can help someone win their party's primary and, in certain districts, once you do that, you might as well be in Congress.
It's not impossible. There are already a handful of people who are reasonable in Congress. We just need more of them.
- I Don't Believe in Imaginary Property
they still demand money from end users when we know for a fact they can make stupid amounts of money without it.
There are two distinct scenarios here:
1) "I think you have a really stupid business model so I'm not going to do business with you."
2) "I think you have a really stupid business model so I'm going to take/use your stuff without your consent."
1) is righteous, 2) is criminal.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
Which is basically a form of command economy called socialism.
No, it's basically a form of command economy called fascism, a right wing problem. And, appropriately, is the right that is doing it, along with many of the other right-wing missteps, such as pseudo-Christian ideologies, violations of privacy rights, discrimination against minorities, etc.
A significant part of the Republican party is now composed of what can only be described as right wing extremists. The whole US political spectrum is so tilted to the right that there are no socialists or communists at all anymore in government.
Fascism and communism are generally totalitarian. Socialism is the left wing counterpart of capitalism, bracketing the moderate ends of the political spectrum. Neither socialism nor capitalism are usually totalitarian.
> (Bet you money that in a couple of years they will start a "rat on your parents/neighbors/friends" blitz to encourage people to turn in their neighbors.
The BSA has been doing this for years...
And a couple of the alternatives are not half bad.
Remember the old "Schoolhouse Rock" classic, How a Bill Becomes a Law"? It really needs to be updated to show how the process works today, with a little animated lobbyist going out for drinks with a little animated congressman, and passing little animated bundles of cash under the table, etc.
Anyone out there with good Flash skills want to take this on?
Soylent Green is peoplicious!
(quote)
There are a number of examples in modern economy that follow the "patron model" of producing works, where a wealthy person or company pays for the creation of intellectual property which is freely distributed in promoting some tangible good (hardware, say).
(quote)
Few and far between.
umm.. here's one that's not few and far between. TV commercials. distributed freely.. In fact they pay to have it distributed.. so these IP's LOVE pirating.. free distribution
Defective Logic
You can't seize a computer made of pancakes! Look at the new adds from Microsoft! I can download as many George Jones albums I want and just eat the evidence! I just hope windows Pancakes taste good as Ihop.
...a load of barely-contained rage.
It is feigned rage. An act. A third rate amateur troll. He's as phony as a three dollar bill. Do not take him seriously.
We not only accept this basic injustice, we celebrate it as good, just, and moral. It isn't, any more than using any other form of power to screw people over.
this perversion of reason is propped up by the myth of the american "rags to riches" dream.
The truth is that for everyone one of these, there are hundreds of thousands of others who get caught and sodomized by the corrupted legal system erected for that express purpose.
The truth, of course, is that those same people, willing to sacrifice anything, including themselves for money would have risen to that position no matter what nation they were in.
VLC FOR MAC IS DYING! IF YOU DEVELOP, PLEASE SAVE IT!!
and that is why we're a fucked up country, you're ignorance is hidden anonymously because you're a coward.
Look if you want a country where you cant criticize it... then my friend, you are the one who needs to wear the towel on your head. I for one dont want that kind of country. Besides, towels on your head look silly.
Monopolies are usually the result of big government. Monopolies which are not, are usually short lived.
Why? Big business likes big government. Big government can legislate and regulate in favor of big business thus blocking competition from small business. You don't think that big business actually minds all of those health and safety regulations do they? Of course not! It keeps the small guys from ever entering the market place
I am sure that McDonalds has an entire department of attorneys, accountants, and food prep experts to handle food safety compliance for every single law that exists. The mom and pop restaurant has to figure out how it goes on their own assuming they can afford to
Big business has even lobbied big government to prevent farmers from checking their own cattle for mad-cow disease. If government wasn't so big and pervasive then they would not be able to punish farmers from testing their stock for mad-cow at the request of big business.
Try starting your own phone company sometime. HA! You have to get permission from the government to do so, and it's guaranteed you probably won't be allowed to.
Why? Because big government is a tool of big business. If government isn't big, then it can't be a tool of big business.
Libertas in infinitum
Don't keep all you bits in one basket folks!
Go Democrats!
The courts will likely rule pretty quick that they can copy an image of your system for further investigation, but since forensics on a PC can be done in a few days tops, if they can't provide further proof of illegal activity to a court quickly, a lawyer will very quickly have that system released back into your hands
Three words: four month backlog (like Steve Jackson Games). I have full confidence they can shop for a judge who will let them get around to it when they feel the hell like getting around to it. Hope it's a good system worth retrieving -- unless you know a lawyer who works for free.
And above all, if you think a band is cool, do NOT tell people about them.
There may be a 4 month backlog on prosecution and getting you into court, but with a warent issued, when they seize your system, it's contents are immediately dumped and imaged. Wether or not they have time to review your system data or not from the image, each day they keep your PC locked up without actually CHARGING you with a crime is time you can sue the agency for loss of use, and if your found not guilty in the end, that's a MASSIVE ammount of money, which your lawyer would be more than happy to take 50% of as a fee on the back end.
Again, they're really not interested in simple offences. The fines that they might conceivably get by seizing your system would have to exceed their costs, which are substantial, in order for the agency to give a rats ass about you. They're looking for grevious offenders who society will justify the cost of improzonment for. A few song files on your PC vs $30K in costs to the city to do it and backlogging the lagal system with non-violent crimes? no, I don;t think taxpayers will bite.
The RIAA is successful (well, not really so far by their track record) because the money for prosecution comes from pricate sources. Once the bill is footed by taxpayers, they're not going after Joe public for a measly $1000 fine, that likely he can't pay anyway. They'll be looking eclusively at punishing people who have enough property or equity to seize in punishment, and who's punishment fits the crimes without conteset. If the city goes around seizing equipment and property to cover fines, and these cases getoverturned, or the city gets sued for millions instead of the RIAA, then someone's getting unelected from office. Politicias simply won;t let that happen.
You get cuaght with drugs, it;s easy enough to slap you with a few days in prison, and a small fine, and there's usually no contest. Look at who gets causghht pot smoking. It;s people who are out in public and easy to catch, or people who get stung through inside dealers working with cops. They don;t go kicking in doors and arresting people in their homes over misdemeanor crimes (which regardless of the fine, copywrite infringement is not a felony unless they can tack on willful distribution FOR PROFIT).
There is no contest in life for which the unprepared have the advantage.