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The 23 Toughest Math Questions

coondoggie sends in a Network World post that begins "It sounds like a math phobic's worst nightmare or perhaps Good Will Hunting for the ages. Those wacky folks at the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency have put out a research request it calls Mathematical Challenges, that has the mighty goal of 'dramatically revolutionizing mathematics and thereby strengthening DoD's scientific and technological capabilities.' The challenges are in fact 23 questions that, if answered, would offer a high potential for major mathematical breakthroughs, DARPA said." Some of the questions overlap with the Millennium Prize Problems of the Clay Mathematics Institute, which each carry a $1M prize.

340 comments

  1. The answer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    42

    1. Re:The answer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      I'm rather unhappy that I only got 11 of the 23 right.... guess my math skills are getting rusty.

    2. Re:The answer by Yvan256 · · Score: 5, Funny

      If you think you're unhappy.... I got 35 of the 23 questions right and I don't even know how I did that.

    3. Re:The answer by muzicman · · Score: 0

      But what was the question?

      --
      -1 disagree is not a modifier for a reason. -1 troll, flamebait, redundant, overrated are NOT acceptable substitutes.
    4. Re:The answer by asylumx · · Score: 3, Funny

      If you had shown your work, you would have gotten partial credit!

    5. Re:The answer by jaguth · · Score: 0

      See, thats the problem, we need to ask a better question first before we can get a usable answer.

    6. Re:The answer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Apparently, according to TFA, the Riemann Hypothesis has something to do with the airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow.

  2. Come together right now by RemoWilliams84 · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Surely there are enough nerds on slashdot to figure these out. Or are we not as smart as we say we are?

    --
    "I don't have to think. I only have to do it. The results are always perfect, but that's old news." - Meat Puppets
    1. Re:Come together right now by rugatero · · Score: 3, Funny

      Or are we not as smart as we say we are?

      Maybe you not smart. Me think good.

      --
      This comment is for entertainment purposes only. Any similarity to real insight or information is purely coincidental.
    2. Re:Come together right now by Timesprout · · Score: 1

      Too much group think here for the free thinking approach the solution to many of these problems will require.

      --
      Do not try to read the dupe, thats impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth
      What truth?
      There is no dupe
    3. Re:Come together right now by iocat · · Score: 5, Funny

      Huh... I just figured out a neat, elegant solution to #17, but there's not quite enough space in this margin to fit it in...

      --

      Dude, I think I can see my house from here.

    4. Re:Come together right now by morgan_greywolf · · Score: 2, Funny

      Surely there are enough nerds on slashdot to figure these out. Or are we not as smart as we say we are?

      You must be new here.

    5. Re:Come together right now by rhyder128k · · Score: 1

      As far as I can see the questions amount to "Solve all existing problems surrounding AI and social modelling. Prize: 1,000,000 dollars". I think that if I had the skills to create this new era of deterministic human behaviour modelling in a way that can be scaled from the the actions and thoughts of an individual all the way up to a societal level, I'd want to make more than 1,000,000 dollars from my discoveries.

      --
      Michael Reed, freelance tech writer.
    6. Re:Come together right now by The+Great+Pretender · · Score: 2, Funny

      Personally, I think a more useful and trickier math question is 'You have $2.17 and the 6-pack of beer costs $7.99, how do you buy the beer?' That answer has to be worth a 1 million dollars, or at least $5.82.

      --
      A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.
    7. Re:Come together right now by eat+here_get+gas · · Score: 1

      shoplift?

      --
      the significance of a signature is insignificant
    8. Re:Come together right now by Idiomatick · · Score: 1

      get a job you drunken bum.

    9. Re:Come together right now by Hurricane78 · · Score: 2, Funny

      We need things that make us go!

      Can you make us go?

      Then we strong. And smart! *huhuhuhuhu*

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
    10. Re:Come together right now by suggsjc · · Score: 2, Funny

      Ok, first you invest that money in the stock market...nevermind.

      --
      When I have a kid, I want to put him in one of those strollers for twins and then run around the mall looking frantic.
    11. Re:Come together right now by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Steel Reserve!

      Now whersh my million? <hic>

    12. Re:Come together right now by geobeck · · Score: 2, Funny

      Huh... I just figured out a neat, elegant solution to #17, but there's not quite enough space in this margin to fit it in...

      Yeah right, Pierre. You have no idea how much confusion your little joke is going to cause, do you?

      --
      Find environmentally and socially responsible products on http://buy-right.net
    13. Re:Come together right now by steveo777 · · Score: 1

      I believe that if you had the answers to all those questions and nobody knew you did, then you could probably easily make a power grab and take over the world a la Pinky and the Brain.

      OTOH, if anyone knows you know those answers, you're screwed. You won't even get the million. Either that or I've seen too many conspiracy movies.

      --
      This sig isn't original enough, it's time to come up with something witty...
    14. Re:Come together right now by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      'You have $2.17 and the 6-pack of beer costs $7.99, how do you buy the beer?'

      Lower your standards and buy a cheaper brand.

    15. Re:Come together right now by drsquare · · Score: 0

      Well done, explain the joke. It makes it so much funnier that way.

    16. Re:Come together right now by geobeck · · Score: 1

      Perhaps I should explain my joke on the original joke... nah.

      --
      Find environmentally and socially responsible products on http://buy-right.net
    17. Re:Come together right now by Goblez · · Score: 1

      Tall boys FTW?

      --
      - Kal`Goblez
    18. Re:Come together right now by Surt · · Score: 1

      Beat the shop owner to death with the beer, take the money from the register, then put back $7.99 so you can't get charged with theft of the beer?

      --
      "Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
    19. Re:Come together right now by khellendros1984 · · Score: 1

      *vents the Bussard Collectors at you*

      --
      It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
    20. Re:Come together right now by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'll have a Coke

    21. Re:Come together right now by fonik · · Score: 1

      Now I remember why I read slashdot.

  3. The answer is that by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The 23 Toughest is Michael Jordan for now

  4. I have a challenge for the DoD: by larry+bagina · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Don't use MS Word.

    I also have a challenge for the slashdot janitors: Link to the original source instead of an ad-laden blog.

    --
    Do you even lift?

    These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.

    1. Re:I have a challenge for the DoD: by Gothmolly · · Score: 3, Funny

      What ads? Or are you some sort of IE user?

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      I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
    2. Re:I have a challenge for the DoD: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      luckily they encoded the file with ASCII so Linux users can decode it with ...
      strings DARPA-BAA-08-65.doc | less

    3. Re:I have a challenge for the DoD: by morgan_greywolf · · Score: 1, Offtopic

      The original source

      Oh, wait...you meant something else, didn't you?

    4. Re:I have a challenge for the DoD: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh, come on. It's kdawson - what do you expect? Be glad we got *some* link, rather than just the summary without any.

    5. Re:I have a challenge for the DoD: by mgichoga · · Score: 1

      That is why you use Firefox with the Adbblock Plus extension!

    6. Re:I have a challenge for the DoD: by asylumx · · Score: 1

      Hey, it's better than a bin-laden blog...

    7. Re:I have a challenge for the DoD: by eat+here_get+gas · · Score: 1

      i must have missed that page, i see no ads from here...

      or am I the only one on FF3 w/ AdBlock+ and a few filters? I have friends over that use my computer for browsing- they constantly marvel at my ability to log-on to an internet with no ads.

      --
      the significance of a signature is insignificant
    8. Re:I have a challenge for the DoD: by learningtree · · Score: 1

      Indeed.
      In addition, the seemingly dumb folks at DoD dont even care to remove personal information from the document before releasing on the net. For instance, the DoD document was created by Elizabeth Latwin.

    9. Re:I have a challenge for the DoD: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd prefer the bin-laden blog to the ad-laden blog any day.

      Ad is such a stupid annoying asshole. Bin is just an ass. ;)

    10. Re:I have a challenge for the DoD: by Annymouse+Cowherd · · Score: 1

      They also don't know what a math problem is. Most of those are either physics or computing questions.

    11. Re:I have a challenge for the DoD: by lowy · · Score: 1

      Don't use MS Word.

      Can you think of a better way to install a rootkit in the computers of the currently targeted group?

    12. Re:I have a challenge for the DoD: by Repossessed · · Score: 1

      I hate adblock personally. If I blocked ads I'd never have found things like penisreductionpills.com, or half the webcomics and stories I read.

      --
      Liberte, Egalite, Fraternite (TM)
    13. Re:I have a challenge for the DoD: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      an ad-laden blog.

      Wait, they found him? I thought he was hiding in Pakistan.

  5. Benefits the NSA by CRCulver · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The portion of the DoD most interested in maths achievements is the NSA, which employs more mathematicians than any other institution in the world (see e.g. Bamford's Body of Secrets ). So when the authors of this list talk about increasing the abilities of the DoD, they really mean increasing violation of privacy and harrasment of anyone thinking too freely.

    1. Re:Benefits the NSA by HBI · · Score: 0, Troll

      The DoD isn't the NSA.

      Not even close.

      --
      HBI's Law: Frequency of calling others Nazis is directly correlated with the likelihood of the accuser being Communist.
    2. Re:Benefits the NSA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      (+5, the whole point). I'm a mathematician-in-training and I've just finished an MSc. It's so depressing to see that mathematics has been turned in the last 50 years from a way of expanding the mind and as a tool for scientific discovery to a channel for

      (1) optimising wealth generation on the gambling paradise they call the stock market; and

      (2) invading privacy to ensure those who have won the gamble get to keep their hardly-earnt gains.

      This also means that half my fellow mathematicians are money/power-hungry bastards who remind me that there is no benevolent god (for no such god would reward nasty characters with so much talent). I am in an environment which through peer pressure discourages those who might pursue mathematical ars gratia artis, as it were.

      Plato might despair, seeing mathematics today as precisely the toy of the world of change and decay he sought to distance it from. Hardy's ode to number theory could not have been more wrong.

      Fuck DARPA and fuck the NSA. And before some idiot goes all "we'd have no Internet without...", (1) says who? the Internet was designed and implemented by a host of international contributors (2) so what? the end does not justify the means. I'm in the UK, and I've had the best of my peers prodded by our equivalent agencies to leave research and go work for them, and I'm so proud of them for having refused (fuck knows with my mouth they'd never ask me). These agencies all exist, ultimately, to oppress - whether abroad or at home.

      Please, do not feed the hand that bites.

    3. Re:Benefits the NSA by CRCulver · · Score: 1

      The NSA is a component of the Department of Defense. From Wikipedia:

      he National Security Agency/Central Security Service (NSA/CSS) is a cryptologic intelligence agency of the United States government, administered as part of the United States Department of Defense.

    4. Re:Benefits the NSA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So isn't the Corp of engineers. You know, the people who build lakes and work on the the rivers.

      They really have nothing to do with the DOD outside of funding.

    5. Re:Benefits the NSA by CRCulver · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Speaking as one who trained as a cryptologic technician interpretative (Mandarin Chinese) in the US Navy, I'd say the NSA has a lot to do with the DoD. So much of the NSA's manpower consists of active-duty soldiers, sailors, marines and airmen. NSA facilities are located at army and navy bases worldwide.

    6. Re:Benefits the NSA by thedonger · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Speaking as a former airmen with a very similar past, aren't we not supposed to speak about that? EEFI?

      --
      Help fight poverty: Punch a poor person.
    7. Re:Benefits the NSA by The+Great+Pretender · · Score: 3, Funny

      Especially as your user name 'the donger' is a little trickier than that of Mr. C. R. Culver at christopherculver.com. I wonder how quickly they'll find him...

      --
      A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.
    8. Re:Benefits the NSA by hesaigo999ca · · Score: 1

      Being a mathmatician, could you validate if these questions are for real,
      before i spend any time on them???
      I need to know which is real and which is just a problem that someone is trying to get their answers for to make money with.

      Quantum math, is not essentially money making right now, where as finding the answer to some sort of poker algorithm, would fit into this category.

    9. Re:Benefits the NSA by SoVeryTired · · Score: 4, Informative

      "I'm a mathematician-in-training and I've just finished an MSc. It's so depressing to see that mathematics has been turned in the last 50 years from a way of expanding the mind and as a tool for scientific discovery to a channel for

      (1) optimising wealth generation on the gambling paradise they call the stock market; and

      (2) invading privacy to ensure those who have won the gamble get to keep their hardly-earnt gains."

      I'm also a mathematician in training, having finished an MSc. I'm about to start a PhD working on (1). I assume (2) is a reference to the study of cryptography. Studying wealth-generation techniques does not make me power-hungry or greedy, in the same way that the people working on the Manhattan project were not monsters who wanted to extinguish life.

      I'm not doing this out of personal greed, I'm doing it because the mathematics involved is elegant and interesting.

      Maybe you're happy working away on your abstract nonsense, but I think I'd prefer to work on something which might actually make a difference to people's lives. Just because an application has potential for abuse doesn't make it inherently evil, as you seem to suggest.

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    10. Re:Benefits the NSA by Singularitarian2048 · · Score: 1

      I'm no genius, but I've attended some elite mathematical institutions, and I've never encountered this peer pressure you describe. If anything, there was peer pressure to go into pure math, and not "ugly" applied math.

    11. Re:Benefits the NSA by Draek · · Score: 2, Interesting

      As a math student...

      Studying wealth-generation techniques does not make me power-hungry or greedy, in the same way that the people working on the Manhattan project were not monsters who wanted to extinguish life.

      True, but what the GP seems to be getting at is, if scientists in general and mathematicians in particular would think about the potential ethical ramifications of their work before doing it, perhaps the world would be a nicer place. A philosophy I'd tend to agree with, BTW, specially with regards to the US' NSA and DoD.

      I'm not doing this out of personal greed, I'm doing it because the mathematics involved is elegant and interesting.

      Best of lucks, then, and I hope I ever get the chance of looking at your work, the math involved *does* sound interesting from what little I've seen.

      Maybe you're happy working away on your abstract nonsense

      You just *had* to ruin a perfectly good comment by flaming anyone who thinks differently than you do.

      but I think I'd prefer to work on something which might actually make a difference to people's lives

      Perhaps you should've gone into engineering, then?

      Just because an application has potential for abuse doesn't make it inherently evil, as you seem to suggest.

      True, but I'd be careful when dealing with the US government. That paranoid theory that the NSA has already broken most encryption algorithms but just hasn't disclosed how yet, sounds a bit less paranoid once you see how many mathematicians are employed by them, and it's better to be safe than in Gitmo.

      --
      No problem is insoluble in all conceivable circumstances.
    12. Re:Benefits the NSA by SoVeryTired · · Score: 2, Informative

      Maybe you misunderstood my tone when I used the phrase "abstract nonsense". It's not necessarily pejorative when used in the context of maths. It originally applied to category theory, but has been extended to refer to most types of pure maths

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_nonsense

      --
      Slashdot: news for Apple. Stuff that Apple.
    13. Re:Benefits the NSA by DougF · · Score: 1

      Or, we could always go back to the original model for mathmeticians...university professors more worried about tenure than progress, or the occasional brilliant rich dilletante who happens to like math more than anything else. Of course, it might take another thousand years to find another breakthrough mathemetician like Newton, but then our conscience would be clear, wouldn't it?

      Until then, as you return to your monk's cell this evening calling out "Pie Jesu Domine, dona eis requiem" and banging your head with a piece of wood every few steps, look around at life and wonder what it would be like without the advances that capitalism has wrought for our personal comfort. Wonder also what it would be like if mathemeticians working in secret agencies hadn't broken the Enigma code and read Germany's private mail? Or, if the U.S. hadn't broken the Japanese military code in time to find their fleet at Midway Island?

      Competition is generally a good thing, and if companies are competing for math resources, then that makes salaries go up, benefits increase, and more people will want to be mathmeticians. Bad/evil things happen with or without technology or advances in mathematics, don't blame God for it, the people who commit the act(s) are responsible.

      --
      Impetuous! Homeric!
    14. Re:Benefits the NSA by Free+the+Cowards · · Score: 1

      Yes, it was so much better before the last 50 years, back when mathematics was used for pure, honest pursuits like designing strategic bombers, calculating artillery trajectories, and building nuclear weapons.

      --
      If you mod me Overrated, you are admitting that you have no penis.
    15. Re:Benefits the NSA by Ihmhi · · Score: 1

      Your Essential Elements of Friendly Information are readily available all over the Internets, Mr. donger.

      I mean, no shit NSA has facilities at military bases all over the world. They also have tanks and guns and all kinds of other spooky shit.

    16. Re:Benefits the NSA by melikamp · · Score: 1

      the same way that the people working on the Manhattan project were not monsters who wanted to extinguish life.

      Huh? Assuming that a person knows that he is developing a bomb which can totally level a metropolitan area, I fail to see how he is not excited about "extinguishing life", and a whole lot of it. And I am not even against killing, be it for fun or for profit. I am just pointing out that you must be dreaming if you think that those researchers were driven solely by the love of Physics.

    17. Re:Benefits the NSA by SoVeryTired · · Score: 1

      Read "Surely you're joking Mr. Feynman" and maybe you'll see it differently.

      --
      Slashdot: news for Apple. Stuff that Apple.
    18. Re:Benefits the NSA by thedonger · · Score: 1

      I only use one of the Internets, but I know Google Maps, et al, give you a nice aerial shot of the NSA. As a matter of principle I am not comfortable seeing such things posted. Guess I am old fashioned.

      FYI - the donger doesn't like to be called "mister." But you can call me "his dongerness" if you're not into that whole brevity thing.

      --
      Help fight poverty: Punch a poor person.
    19. Re:Benefits the NSA by melikamp · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I said I didn't want to do it.

      He said, "All right, there's a meeting at three o'clock. I'll see you there."

      I said, "It's all right that you told me the secret because I'm not going to tell anybody, but I'm not going to do it."

      So I went back to work on my thesis -- for about three minutes. Then I began to pace the floor and think about this thing. The Germans had Hitler and the possibility of developing an atomic bomb was obvious, and the possibility that they would develop it before we did was very much of a fright. So I decided to go to the meeting at three o'clock.

      OK. What I can see is a man who decided to work on a bomb because he wanted to be able to bomb Hitler before Hitler could bomb US. Not just for the love of physics involved, but mainly for strategic reasons. I sure didn't read the whole thing, but whatever I found supports my position.

    20. Re:Benefits the NSA by khallow · · Score: 1

      You're doing it all wrong. When the rightness of an action doesn't depend on the end result or the means, but instead on the motive, then the underlying belief system is fundamentally broken beyond repair.

      And your whine about intelligence agencies is misguided. There wouldn't even be a UK if it weren't for intelligence agencies oppressing the hell out of the Nazis in the Second World War. And their plates been full with the Communists afterwards. Yes, they are dangerous, but so are the threats that they deal with.

    21. Re:Benefits the NSA by LionMage · · Score: 1

      Really? I don't see it that way, even based on the carefully chosen snippet you provided.

      Here's what you originally wrote, which articulates your position:

      Assuming that a person knows that he is developing a bomb which can totally level a metropolitan area, I fail to see how he is not excited about "extinguishing life", and a whole lot of it. And I am not even against killing, be it for fun or for profit. I am just pointing out that you must be dreaming if you think that those researchers were driven solely by the love of Physics.

      So you're saying the scientists and mathematicians involved in the Manhattan project were excited about the prospect of mass killing, murder, whatever you want to call it. Then someone calls you on it, tells you to read a book for a different perspective, and you pick one snippet (which I won't bother re-quoting here, because you already did), and claim it supports your position.

      Hogwash. You claim Feynman's motivation was strategic: bomb them before they bomb us. This is already different from what you originally asserted, which was a base, emotional desire to hurt "the other." Now you're modifying your claim to say that Feynman's motivation was strategic, which implies un-emotional calculation. The only commonality between your original position and your new position is that a love of physics and math was not the sole motivating factor of the participants in the Manhattan Project. However, the stated "extra motivation" is different in each claim that you make.

      Furthermore, you never entertain the possibility that these scientists were largely convinced that the bomb they were developing would never be used in the theater of war, and was to be demonstrated to high ranking officials from Germany and Japan to coerce their surrender. Of course, this is not what happened, and many of the Manhattan Project contributors were horrified to realize that the bomb really had been deployed, and killed many civilians in the process. I'm not saying this was the case for all of them, but some certainly were convinced (or perhaps deluded) into thinking that the bomb would never become more than a bargaining chip.

      And lastly, even in the carefully chosen snippet you cite, you never once mention Feynman's emotional state, which he states quite plainly: fear. Not blood-lust, anger, or anything of the sort, but plain and simple fear of what might happen if Germany under Hitler obtained nuclear weapons before the Allies did.

      So yeah, the only part I would agree with you on is that love of physics wasn't the sole motivating factor for most of these people. But the alternate factors you cite, I don't think I'd agree with either of them.

    22. Re:Benefits the NSA by khallow · · Score: 1

      True, but what the GP seems to be getting at is, if scientists in general and mathematicians in particular would think about the potential ethical ramifications of their work before doing it, perhaps the world would be a nicer place. A philosophy I'd tend to agree with, BTW, specially with regards to the US' NSA and DoD.

      The problem here is that the GP doesn't seem to have a clue about the ethical ramifications of math. So how can he justify his criticisms? For example, his swipe at "money/power-hungry" mathematicians was completely unfair. Finally, I simply disagree with the premise that "thinking about" "ethical ramifications" is a good use of a mathematician's time. For example, the GP spoke of applying math to markets as some sort of net evil. He has yet to explain what harm at all is done.

    23. Re:Benefits the NSA by LionMage · · Score: 1

      Fuck DARPA and fuck the NSA. And before some idiot goes all "we'd have no Internet without...", (1) says who? the Internet was designed and implemented by a host of international contributors (2) so what? the end does not justify the means.

      Implemented, maybe, but designed? Sorry, most of the fundamental work on the core network protocols (IP, TCP, UDP) was done by DARPA researchers. Vint Cerf has a lot of great stories to tell about his DARPA work in the early days, proving this stuff out.

      Many of the things you'd consider core services are really ancillary protocols built on top of the basic stuff -- even the World Wide Web. So it really depends on what you mean by "the Internet." I'm old enough to remember a time when I used the Internet without there being a World Wide Web, or a Hyper-Text Transport Protocol.

      As to your second point, that may well be true, but DARPA has generated a lot of useful technology that is frequently used outside the military sphere, and you're benefiting from those inventions whether you like the source or not. That doesn't make DARPA any nicer of an organization, but it does mitigate the evil they do somewhat. No organization is wholly good or wholly evil, IMHO. (And yeah, that's a loaded statement too... waiting for someone to Godwin me on this.)

    24. Re:Benefits the NSA by ahabswhale · · Score: 1

      Fuck DARPA and fuck the NSA. And before some idiot goes all "we'd have no Internet without...", (1) says who? the Internet was designed and implemented by a host of international contributors...

      Sorry but the core tech was pretty much courtesy of the efforts of DARPA (or ARPA actually) from day 1. There was no other country working on the same thing. So you're full of shit. Europe jumped on the band wagon after the technology was demonstrated (i.e., developed). The internet alone justifies DARPA's existence. Nothing has transformed society as much as the internet since the industrial revolution.

      --
      Are agnostics skeptical of unicorns too?
    25. Re:Benefits the NSA by Prien715 · · Score: 1

      [T]here is no benevolent god (for no such god would reward nasty characters with so much talent)....

      And on the 8th day, God created hell;)

      The principle purpose of any afterlife/rebirth in any religion I'm aware of (Hinduism, Christianity, Islam, Zoroastrianism etc) is for divine justice to be served, since human justice has failed to be just. Voltaire famously argued without that threat of divine retribution after death, there would be no reason to follow morality. So there's a reason your selfish compatriots aren't suffering yet if there is a god.

      Not that I agree with any of the above. And I'm also possibly off-topic. But hey, it's /.

      --
      -- Political fascism requires a Fuhrer.
    26. Re:Benefits the NSA by melikamp · · Score: 1

      I wrote:

      I fail to see how he is not excited about "extinguishing life", and a whole lot of it.

      So you are saying that a person (like Feynman) was not excited when he or his colleagues finally found a way to develop the weapon and state that, with high probability, the damage will be such and such and the human casualties will be such and such? According to you, they must have burst into tears of sadness when they put the dots above i's in their report. According to you, Feynman thought at that moment something like: "Dude, I wish that the bomb would instead explode into fireworks at the safe distance from the intended target". You want hogwash? Here it is: "We are exited about completing our work on the bomb, but we are very sad about its uncanny ability to kill people".

      What gets me is that people like SoVeryTired entertain this junkie dream about a perfectly impartial scientist who is able to completely detach himself from the object of his research. My position is still the same: people who worked on the bomb were excited about wholesale killing. I never claimed that they did not have other (even conflicting) emotions or aspirations.

    27. Re:Benefits the NSA by Ihmhi · · Score: 1

      I just think of things like the CIA does. I saw a documentary about their buildings and the ongoing "spy war" between Russia and the USA's embassies. A whole lot of cool countermeasures were developed during this little back and forth of spying, including windows that can block out laser microphones at their HQ in Langley.

      Knowing where your building is or that they have operatives in military bases (again, not a big surprise) is not really compromising operational security. Even if he said "Oh, well, the NSA is at *this base*", I don't think that's all that bad either. I just assume that they operate at nearly every medium or bigger sized base.

    28. Re:Benefits the NSA by Jorophose · · Score: 1

      (for no such god would reward nasty characters with so much talent)

      Oh, don't worry about that.

      They're going to be paying for the rest of their lives if they don't pay with their lives first. Suicides, heart attacks, murders, calling all bets!

    29. Re:Benefits the NSA by socz · · Score: 1

      Interestingly enough, the math can't be evil! As Plato believe the theory of forms that something is inherently good or bad. If he liked math, we believe that he believed it was good! So regardless of what comes of it, it would be good because it itself was good a priori! :P

      But then again, what do I know?

      Go Socrates!

      --
      My abilities are only limited by my imagination
    30. Re:Benefits the NSA by SoVeryTired · · Score: 1

      You've clearly read the book, but maybe you should look over the part about his reaction once he saw the effects of the bomb. He talks about sitting in a cafe, looking at a bridge being built, and thinking "Why are they doing that? Don't they know how pointless it is?".

      The scientists who built the bomb had no idea how it would be used, and on who, so it is a little pointless to specualte how they felt about it. The point is, once they knew it was possible, they had to build it before someone else did. I should probably add here that I think its use was one of the most atrocious war crimes in history (but IANAIL, I am not an international layer. I don't know what the technical definition of a war crime is, but I know an atrocity when I see one).

      Anyway, this is getting somewhat off-topic. My original point was not about scientific detachment, or anything like it. It was that scientists shouldn't be held responsible for the ill-use (or beneficial use) of their discoveries. Ideas are ideas, it's up to individuals and governments to choose how they are applied. We can build power stations, or we can build bombs.

      --
      Slashdot: news for Apple. Stuff that Apple.
    31. Re:Benefits the NSA by bsDaemon · · Score: 1

      Well, the majority of of the well-known scientists working on the bomb were Jewish (Fermi was married to a Jew but was Italian and Catholic), so one might understand why they would maybe look the other way on nuking Germany at the time. However, once the the Germany surrendered, I believe nearly all but Edward Teller signed a letter to Trueman asking him not to use the bomb on Japan for ethical reasons.

    32. Re:Benefits the NSA by nobodymk2 · · Score: 1

      Discoveries in science that relate to abstract concepts usually result in more questions, whereas data encryption and stock market analysis not only have money related in the analysis itself but also perpetuate making more money. So while you spend you're time figuring out 23 toughest math questions I'll be making a digital fortress...not to mention any money gained by that could benefit research (even large corporations spend at least 3% of their R&D funds on average in pure science, and 3% of future market value, n, is a lot larger than current market value (at this point in time) n-delta n*time.

      These questions are "hard to solve" not because they would bring about world peace or stabilize global economy or grant large sums of money (other than rewards posted by companies) but because they would either open padora's box or simply raise more questions. While finding the existence of the atom may have led to nuclear energy, there is not any scientific advancements made at the quark level, apart from raising more questions. How much deeper will we go? Each answer is just 2 or three more questions. For each step forward, we take 2 steps back.

      To be clear, I don't like what the NSA is doing, I just don't think it is practical to be researching in things like "13 million digit prime numbers"- what practical purpose does that serve?

    33. Re:Benefits the NSA by bhiestand · · Score: 1

      That paranoid theory that the NSA has already broken most encryption algorithms but just hasn't disclosed how yet, sounds a bit less paranoid once you see how many mathematicians are employed by them, and it's better to be safe than in Gitmo.

      Almost correct... In fact, the NSA has already broken every algorithm that ever has or will exist, rendering even THEIR most sensitive communications insecure. Since all communications are insecure, they actually hire mathematicians as a cover. All the mathematicians really do is read your email. Also, they can only read your thoughts when you masturbate. Don't worry, once McCain is out of the way, that thought you had about your mother will land you in Gitmo.

      --
      SWM seeks new sig for a brief fling
    34. Re:Benefits the NSA by SparafucileMan · · Score: 1

      Because that's better than requiring professors to constantly publish publish publish even if it's crap? Even if it's not understandable to more than a few people? Even if they're spending all their time making up new fields of math because they don't have anything better to do, instead of addressing the fundamental problems?

      Because that's better than having a fucked up education system that kills student interest in math in K-12 by focusing on grinding out problems that people already know the answer to rather than exploring things more exciting than geometry and long division?

      Because even at great universities you still have to spend 4 years going through the motions before you can even get to the interesting and important things? It's hardly any better than K-12: "Do this problem set, they all have unexciting answers that are about 200 years old to make it easy for me to grade, and if you're late or miss a class I ruin your grade."

      Sorry, but your grand idea of mathematics died a long time ago. Blaming the NSA, DARPA, and Wall Street for something that is just the fault of the Great Academics of Mathematics is just dumb. You and your peers fucked this one up at least a century ago in the rush to be published and preen about how smart you were.

  6. Like high school all over again. by NotBornYesterday · · Score: 5, Funny

    Does anyone else here feel like we're being asking us to do someone else's math homework for them?

    --
    I prefer rogues to imbeciles because they sometimes take a rest.
    1. Re:Like high school all over again. by Catil · · Score: 5, Funny

      Yes, except we won't get paid this time.

    2. Re:Like high school all over again. by morgan_greywolf · · Score: 1

      Actually, TFA says DARPA is awarding research grants. For all intents and purposes, that is getting paid. Additionally, some of those questions, per the summary, carry a $1 million prize.

      So do the homework, get rich.

      Sounds good, right?

    3. Re:Like high school all over again. by TheLostSamurai · · Score: 4, Funny

      Yes, except we won't get paid this time.

      Don't you mean we won't get beat up if we don't?

      --
      I am Jack's complete lack of surprise.
    4. Re:Like high school all over again. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, except we won't get paid this time.

      Paid? All I care about is if this is the home work of a hot girl.

    5. Re:Like high school all over again. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Paid?! Oh wait, you must not be a parent.

    6. Re:Like high school all over again. by poptart · · Score: 1

      > Yes, except we won't get paid this time.

      at first i read that as "we won't get laid this time", then i remembered that this is slashdot :)

    7. Re:Like high school all over again. by DougF · · Score: 1

      Is she pretty?

      --
      Impetuous! Homeric!
    8. Re:Like high school all over again. by NotBornYesterday · · Score: 1

      Irrelevant. If you're doing her homework, you are wrapped around her finger, and therefore not getting any.

      --
      I prefer rogues to imbeciles because they sometimes take a rest.
    9. Re:Like high school all over again. by ConceptJunkie · · Score: 1

      Yeah, except most of those "problems" are so vaguely worded that who knows what they will pay for:

      "Mr. Army-type Person, I replaced linear algebra by algebraic geometry in a systematic way! Check out this work here. Can I have my million dollars now?"

      "Let me see. Nope, sorry, we wanted it in pink... and a larger font."

      "But I can change--"

      "Nope. Too late. We'll just take this. Thanks for your effort anyway."

      "But--"

      "Guards--??"

      --
      You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
    10. Re:Like high school all over again. by DeusExMach · · Score: 1

      ...you're new to how our American Government works, aren't you?

    11. Re:Like high school all over again. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      p --> L

  7. no by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    23

    1. Re:no by Nathrael · · Score: 1, Funny

      2+3=5

      Hail Eris! All hail Discordia!

      --
      A good education is a bit like a STD - it makes you unsuitable for a lot of jobs and gives you a desire to spread it.
    2. Re:no by MikeDirnt69 · · Score: 2, Informative

      69 FTW!

      --
      Am I eval()? - http://www.monst3r.com.br
    3. Re:no by erstazi · · Score: 4, Funny

      77 is better. You get 8 more.

    4. Re:no by fracai · · Score: 1

      tru7h

      --
      -- i am jack's amusing sig file
    5. Re:no by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Apparently, according to Google this is a pretty dang hard question to answer:
      Yep, google breaks!

    6. Re:no by Surt · · Score: 1

      A small example suffices:
      http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=399999999999999+-+399999999999998&btnG=Search

      It's not clear to me why that would get the right result, but
      http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=299999999999999+-+299999999999998&btnG=Search

      does not. It's close to 48 bit limits, but the 29 version is over also.

      --
      "Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
    7. Re:no by ZorbaTHut · · Score: 1
      --
      Breaking Into the Industry - A development log about starting a game studio.
    8. Re:no by PhearoX · · Score: 1

      68. You do me and I'll owe you one.

  8. Re:Here's a tough one. by larry+bagina · · Score: 5, Funny

    How did the mathematician solve for constipation?

    He worked it out with his pencil!

    --
    Do you even lift?

    These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.

  9. Re:Here's a tough one. by azgard · · Score: 1

    One ever. He will prove that it can be done. But after this is proven, it's quite uninteresting problem.

  10. Here's a toughy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful
    You are a banker who has US$700b in bad loans mostly provided to people who had a history of bad debt and whom have defaulted on their repayments. The Government is offering you somebody elses money to cover your poor judgement and prop up your terrible lending practices. Answer the following questions (1 point each):
    1. Is US$700b enough?
    2. What will be the total value wiped of the global stock markets by your ineptitude?
    3. How big will your bonus be this year

    Bonus question: Is lending a value that is worth 125% of the house it is secured against a good idea? State your reasons why and show your working out.

    1. Re:Here's a toughy by IceCreamGuy · · Score: 5, Funny

      Dude, this question is pretty irrelevant, I mean, when would a situation like that ever arise?

    2. Re:Here's a toughy by larry+bagina · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Those terrible lending practices were encouraged by congress, the bush administration ("ownership society") and lawsuits/protests/complaints against banks for "racist" loaning practices (ie, loaning money to people who are likely to repay).

      --
      Do you even lift?

      These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.

    3. Re:Here's a toughy by kklein · · Score: 1, Offtopic

      4. Will the entire economy go belly-up because some whiny voters who don't understand that this is a financially extinction-level event decide to get all moralistic instead of being pragmatic and fixing it, while making sure it can't happen again, like the liquidity trap of the Great Depression and the S&L fracas can't happen again?

      Answer: Yes.

    4. Re:Here's a toughy by Sobrique · · Score: 3, Informative

      Encouraging someone to do something stupid doesn't actually change the fact that it's stupid though :)

    5. Re:Here's a toughy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      a % of the 700B debt is secured and even if much is completely bad and unrecoverable what is the impact on the global market due to banks disproportionally overreacting:

      1. more than 700B
      2. way more than 700B
      3. way way more than 700B
      4. way way way way more than 700B

    6. Re:Here's a toughy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I hope the economy dies because i want to be a blacksmith.

    7. Re:Here's a toughy by Fujisawa+Sensei · · Score: 1

      You are a banker who has US$700b in bad loans mostly provided to people who had a history of bad debt and whom have defaulted on their repayments. The Government is offering you somebody elses money to cover your poor judgement and prop up your terrible lending practices. Answer the following questions (1 point each):

      1. Is US$700b enough?
      2. What will be the total value wiped of the global stock markets by your ineptitude?
      3. How big will your bonus be this year

      Bonus question: Is lending a value that is worth 125% of the house it is secured against a good idea? State your reasons why and show your working out.

      Here's another one for your banker friend.

      Well you already charged the sub-prime borrowers a higher interest rate to offset them as a credit risk didn't you? or was the reasoning for the higher interest rate complete BS?

      Or in summary, were you lying to the people you were lending the money to, or are you lying now?

      --
      If someone is passing you on the right, you are an asshole for driving in the wrong lane.
    8. Re:Here's a toughy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wait, so you're saying that a handout will not only "fix" everything, but "make sure it can't happen again"?? Really?? How is this making sure it won't happen again?

    9. Re:Here's a toughy by houghi · · Score: 1

      And for the first graders. How much would every citizen get if they gave all an equal share of that US$700b if there are 350m people in the USofA. (It also shows the money in a number that makes it understandable for people.)

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    10. Re:Here's a toughy by hackus · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Well, you should probably get the facts straight.

      First of all, this has nothing to do with 700B and a banker.

      This also had nothing to do with lending people with bad debt.

      I mean, the sub prime mortgages total about 61 billion total, of debt, for everyone who has a home in the USA.

      The issue here, is that Commercial Banks, and Investment banks where combined together under the Federal Reserve (NOT a government institution, but a private entity) in the 90's to increase credit.

      So, you had ludicrous deals in the 90's and later with leveraged buyouts of companies, propped up by investment bank CEO's through leverage of like 300 to 1, which is ridiculous.

      This rampant abuse of credit by the Investment bank CEO's to fund these mergers and consolidations of billions of dollars of net worth, with almost no money down except the promise of higher stock values, was greedy and criminal.

      I wish you people would stop swallowing what the press tells you, and do your own research online into these problems.

      I mean, it is simple Math. Home mortgages cannot possibly bring the economy down to a 700B bailout. There simply isn't that many homes mortgaged.

      This entire debacle was orchestrated by the Federal Reserve, condoned by Congress and greedily executed by the CEO's of these investment banks who funded these huge mergers that have happened over the past 10-15 years.

      They used your savings, they used your 401K plans, they used your future earnings as credit.

      Personally I do not care what happens. Either way, if we bail out the Investment CEO's, they get to walk away from all of this and we get to pay.

      If we do not pay, the investment CEO's lose everything.

      Either way, the USA is bankrupt.

      So if we are going to go down, I would like to take the CEO's of these investment banks with me.

      Put them in the bread line right next too me.

      -Hackus

      --
      Got Geometrodynamics? Awe, too hard to figure out? Too bad.
    11. Re:Here's a toughy by LifesABeach · · Score: 1

      1. No, 700B only covers the bad debt, not money it will cost to make the Financial Sector moving again. The Financial Sector has basically stopped moving.

      2. The Total Value is the Money you take, or give to the market. WHEN YOU SELL YOUR STOCK.

      3. What the contract says it is to be that I, and the Corporation that signed it says it will be.

      Bonus Question; YES!, But only when the Market Price of the house will be Greater than 125% of the Current Value.

      What did I win?

    12. Re:Here's a toughy by aero6dof · · Score: 1

      Dude, this question is pretty irrelevant, I mean, when would a situation like that ever arise?

      Quit asking trick questions, everybody knows that the free market has this all taken care of!

    13. Re:Here's a toughy by Sj0 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      5. Will the economy go belly-up because the rate of increase of federal debt will cause the economy to become entirely dedicated to debt maintenance, requiring generations to pay high taxes and recieve few services to get the debt to managable levels?

      Answer: Yes.

      Don't worry, it's only 4 trillion dollars of new debt during Bush's presidency, more than the entire inflation adjusted federal debt after WWII!

      --
      It's been a long time.
    14. Re:Here's a toughy by NotBornYesterday · · Score: 1

      It seems that it is in vogue to blame Bush for the crisis, which is an rather simplistic argument. Obama is repeating over and over that the crisis is due to "8 years of failed Bush policies", which, not too surprisingly, is being eaten up by a populace eager to blame someone for the state we're in. Unfortunately for Obama, this argument ignores the fact that elements of this crisis were set in motion long before the Bush administration existed.

      For example, the passing of the IBBEA under Clinton in '94. Also around the same time, Clinton passed the Community Reinvestment Act (probably what you're referring to re: "racist" ... etc.). Record-low interest rates under Clinton/Greenspan helped propel our economy out of the doldrums of the early 90's, while contributing to enormous levels of home sales and construction. After the dot-com bubble, rates were continually held low to stave off economic troubles. That helped spur skyrocketing home prices even while the economy sputtered. Combine disproportionally high housing costs with 1) low/no money down loans, 2) interest-only payments, and 3) natural market cycles in real estate, you ended up with a lot of people upside-down on their home value, unable to make the rising payments, and unable to get out from under the loan by selling the house, not unlike what the mid-to-late-eighties was like, especially here in the northeast.

      Also, Shortsightedness in the private sector was critical to this meltdown, and began before Bush even took office, and therefore before he did any deregulation. Some deregulation did occur under Bush, but that's a side show compared to the other sources of the problems.

      Go ahead and blame Bush for the stuff he's actually involved in (entering Iraq without a proper exit strategy, for example), but scapegoating him for this whole crisis is nothing but convenient political rhetoric for the Dems. You'll never really get to the bottom of it that way.

      --
      I prefer rogues to imbeciles because they sometimes take a rest.
    15. Re:Here's a toughy by billybob2001 · · Score: 1
      1. Is US$700b enough?

      C'mon...

      640K should be enough for anybody.

    16. Re:Here's a toughy by babblefrog · · Score: 1
      Well, the free market could take care of it, if they would let it.

      1. Bankruptcy for those entities that need it
      2. Bad stuff gets wiped
      3. Good assets get bought by other entities
      4. ...
      5. Profit!

    17. Re:Here's a toughy by nelsonal · · Score: 1

      Nope but requiring them to do it does, the CRA isn't really an optional law.

      --
      Degaussing scares the bad magnetism out of the monitor and fills it with good karma.
    18. Re:Here's a toughy by nelsonal · · Score: 1

      Higher rate, but the rate wasn't high enough (the defaults have been more like those of payday lenders who usually count on 20% of their loans defaulting).

      --
      Degaussing scares the bad magnetism out of the monitor and fills it with good karma.
    19. Re:Here's a toughy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Then the reasoning for the higher iterest rate was BS.

    20. Re:Here's a toughy by The+Slashdolt · · Score: 1

      "Expanding Homeownership. The President believes that homeownership is the cornerstone of America's vibrant communities and benefits individual families by building stability and long-term financial security. In June 2002, President Bush issued America's Homeownership Challenge to the real estate and mortgage finance industries to encourage them to join the effort to close the gap that exists between the homeownership rates of minorities and non-minorities. The President also announced the goal of increasing the number of minority homeowners by at least 5.5 million families before the end of the decade. Under his leadership, the overall U.S. homeownership rate in the second quarter of 2004 was at an all time high of 69.2 percent. Minority homeownership set a new record of 51 percent in the second quarter, up 0.2 percentage point from the first quarter and up 2.1 percentage points from a year ago."
      http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2004/08/20040809-9.html

      --
      mp3's are only for those with bad memories
    21. Re:Here's a toughy by DeusExMach · · Score: 1

      1. no.
      2. $12.7t
      3. OMG! PONIES!!!

      Bq: Of course, because you're lending against the theoretical dollars that come out of the series of tubes of the internets. It's the time value of money amplified by how much money we're GOING to have, and oh, man is it gonna be SWEET!

      "State your reasons why and show your working out.": Fuck you. This is America. I don't have to prove myself to you.

    22. Re:Here's a toughy by aero6dof · · Score: 1

      If it could take care of it, why isn't any company stepping up to the plate to make some money fixing this mess? Why are we even in this situation in the first place if the market worked? Unfettered markets are different from well regulated free markets. I believe we're way to far on the former and need to fight our way back to the latter.

    23. Re:Here's a toughy by NotBornYesterday · · Score: 1

      Yes. So? This press release doesn't change the other pre-existing factors that contributed to this mess; all it does is build on what was already there. Not to mention, Presidents aren't elected if they promise lower home ownership in an election year.

      Home ownership by itself is a noble goal, and our leadership should support that. The problem is, how do you do that responsibly? Can the free market do that, or is regulation needed? IMHO, regulations simply create more obstacles for the good guys, and crooks always seem to worm their way around them. The problem is far more complicated than most people are making it out to be. Any discussion (or solution) that doesn't take that into account is superficial.

      --
      I prefer rogues to imbeciles because they sometimes take a rest.
    24. Re:Here's a toughy by clone53421 · · Score: 1

      $2000. (The e-mail was wrong.)

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
    25. Re:Here's a toughy by originalTMAN · · Score: 1

      A ton of apple pies!

    26. Re:Here's a toughy by Jorophose · · Score: 1

      Or something like less than 30% of the US GDP (but that's if the GDP is only 13 trillion; I'm pretty sure it's much larger than that. It's over double the German GDP, which is something like 6-7 trillion)

      There are countries worse off than you. Of course, I profit from your misery (when it's reasonable, as it is now and in the 70s when we trading for 1.30$). But look at most European countries; a hostile workforce, half your GDP in debt, and that debt keeps rising because your currency keeps rising and because of that you're unlikely to get any manufacturing done.

      (I wonder though if the weak situation in the US got you more industries? We've seen some layoffs in the south, namely the detroit companies bleeding in windsor)

    27. Re:Here's a toughy by nelsonal · · Score: 1

      Banks make money on a spread between loans and their funding costs. That means the interest their loans earn needs to cover the costs of the bank employees, credit losses, and the cost of their funds. Banks borrow at LIBOR (the inter-bank offered rate) which has generally been about 3% for the last couple years. The bank's costs are about 2% (including the 0.5% profit margin). So loans with an expected 1% default rate need a 6% loan, loans with a 4% default rate need a 9% loan. These were originally thought to be 2-3% default rate and loans were made at 7-8% but the default rate will end up being something like 7-8% so the bank will lose a ton on the loans. The bank massively under priced the default risk, if that's what you mean by BS, then yes. If you mean they shouldn't have charged the borrower that high a rate, then no.

      --
      Degaussing scares the bad magnetism out of the monitor and fills it with good karma.
    28. Re:Here's a toughy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's potentially an easy question and potentially a very difficult one. If you're asking about how many post-give-out dollars, then you just divide 700b by 350m...easy.

      But if you want to know how many dollars, as we know them today, everyone would get (i.e. purchasing power), then that's a much more difficult question to answer. Since the $700b is essentially being printed by the treasury, the cost of that money will be paid in inflation. So not only would the effective amount given each person be less than the straight division by 350m, but any savings people have would also be diminished. So the net effect to someone with considerable savings could very well end up being negative.

      Things only get more complicated when you start to factor in adjustable interest rates on debt which will respond to inflation and salaries which will likely take longer to respond. All that only scratches the surface of the kinds of calculations that would need to be done to arrive at answer to the "How will this affect me?" question.

      The question gets a little easier to answer when it's posited as giving $700b to the privileged few who created this mess in the first place...the only hard part is figuring out just how much each of us is getting screwed out of rather than figuring out whether we come out ahead or not.

    29. Re:Here's a toughy by shermo · · Score: 1

      well regulated free markets

      I'm trying to figure this one out.

      --
      Insanity: voting in the same two parties over and over again and expecting different results
    30. Re:Here's a toughy by The+Slashdolt · · Score: 1

      So? You're post up there tried to say none of this was bush's fault. That was either intentionally misleading or uninformed. The people foreclosing on their homes today didn't get their loans during the clinton years. You seem to not realize that the republicans owned the executive, legislative, and judicial branches for 6 years straight. Bush didn't veto a single bill. For the last two they have just owned the executive and judicial. Anyone with a brain can see that bush and the republicans are major players behind all of this. Are they 100% to blame? Nope. But saying nothing that happened in the last 8 years is bush's fault is ridiculous.

      --
      mp3's are only for those with bad memories
    31. Re:Here's a toughy by Breakfast+Pants · · Score: 1

      I am hereby willing to be you one penny ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfascZSTU4o ) that that time would be 'NEVER'.

      --

      --

      WHO ATE MY BREAKFAST PANTS?
    32. Re:Here's a toughy by NotBornYesterday · · Score: 1
      What I said:

      Some deregulation did occur under Bush, but that's a side show compared to the other sources of the problems.

      What you said:

      So? You're post up there tried to say none of this was bush's fault. That was either intentionally misleading or uninformed.

      No. You seem to be reading me as purely black/white, which is wrong. I am stating that the problems we have now are due to a number of reasons, and some of the most significant ones occurred before he took office. The economy is a complex fabric with lots of threads that is woven over a long period of time, by more than one person or administration.

      Uninformed? I spent the early-to-mid '90s in 1) real estate appraisal, and 2) banking, before moving on to a career in computers. I have tried to keep abreast of things since I left the industry. I'm not a seasoned insider, but I have some understanding and insight here.

      The people foreclosing on their homes today didn't get their loans during the clinton years.

      I think you are confusing timeline with cause-and-effect. I think it is fair to say that there are troubled loans today which were taken out based on Clintonian deregulation, whether they were taken out during Clinton's administration or not.

      Anyone with a brain can see that bush and the republicans are major players behind all of this.

      No. You are either being told this by a political machine that has an agenda, or maybe your hatred of all things related to Bush has led you to blame him above everyone else. It makes for an entertaining conspiracy theory, but it's not based in fact.

      Ultimately, responsibility lies with borrowers and lenders. Bush never sat down at the closing table with a borrower who couldn't afford a loan, and forced them to sign. Bush never asked an appraiser to come in high on an appraisal so the loan-to-value ratio looked better. Bush didn't bundle shaky loans together and sell them on the secondary market as a good investment. Bush didn't buy and sell "insurance" on loan bundles without sufficient capital to back it up.

      Are they 100% to blame? Nope.

      In essence, that was my point before. I think that where we disagree is in 1) cause/effect, 2) degree of responsibility, and 3) who else is to blame.

      But saying nothing that happened in the last 8 years is bush's fault is ridiculous.

      I'm saying that the degree to which he influenced (or even could influence) things has been greatly exaggerated by those who stand to gain politically by opposing him. If we truly want to solve this crisis, we need to look beyond 1) blaming Bush, and 2) huge bailouts. Doing only those will not fix the mess going forward.

      As an aside, it strikes me as interesting is that Bush's opponents mock him by calling him a stupid chimp in one sentence, and in the next accuse him of setting in motion a vast and complex conspiracy to control markets in a way that even James Bond evil genius villains would admire.

      --
      I prefer rogues to imbeciles because they sometimes take a rest.
    33. Re:Here's a toughy by aero6dof · · Score: 1

      well regulated free markets

      I'm trying to figure this one out.

      If you're trying to figure it out then you haven't been paying attention to the Adam Smith's free market. Nor have you been really thinking about how we got here economically. I believe in a free market, but what are the qualities of a free market that make it work for us in society - why should we tolerate it if it doesn't work for us overall.

      Well regulated in this case would mean that you are systematically removing impediments to the efficient operation of a free market. For instance, shouldn't there be significant impediments to the operation of too-big-to-fail corporations in favor of small competive, efficient businesses? Well-regulated would mean that we require the increase transparency in the holdings of banks instead of obscuring them so the market can better judge the efficacy of investments?

      Try this link. It's not necessarily the comprehensive, but maybe we need to rethink what actually constitutes a free market.

    34. Re:Here's a toughy by Twisted64 · · Score: 1

      If you're curious about how such a situation could arise, I suggest looking to season 4 of Married... With Children for the answer. Unfortunately I can't provide a clip, but Al Bundy gets a loan of $50,000 from Steve's bank in an amusing scene so that Steve can beat his fellow workers and get a free holiday.

      I think that every world-wide banking situation that can arise has been handled already in MwC :)
      http://www.bundyology.com/hpg/408.html

      --
      Consciousness is a myth. Trust me.
  11. How they formulate the requests? by azgard · · Score: 3, Interesting

    These are really hard problems and I wonder how does anyone formulate a research grant requests for them.

    1. Re:How they formulate the requests? by I.M.O.G. · · Score: 1

      Its done the same way nearly anyone formulates a research grant request - they look at grant requests that have already been submitted by others, and build their own in that model. No one makes it from scratch, there is a predefined format which must be followed, then they make it very similar to other grant requests which have been accepted, but ensure they differentiate themselves and highlight the importance of their research. Its not as challenging as one might think to write a grant request just because the problems are abstract.

    2. Re:How they formulate the requests? by khallow · · Score: 1

      They don't. They instead write a grant to solve some more concrete problem that so happens to chip away at (or perhaps even solve) the main problem. Or they might write the grant for an unrelated but easy problem that won't distract them much. Grant agencies really dislike sponsoring work on these hard problems because one can spend decades and not get anywhere. After all, if the problem is still around a century later, it's very unlikely that your two year grant is going to dent it.

    3. Re:How they formulate the requests? by azgard · · Score: 1

      Exactly, it was my belief that you cannot predict that or how you solve these problems, so this naturally poses a problem, how to formulate and select the requests for grant? That was actually question I had in mind - how is DARPA going to solve this problem? Or they will not solve it, but then this list is just another list of research areas eligible for grants.

  12. I know the answer to #23 by Arc+the+Daft · · Score: 1

    Physics.

    1. Re:I know the answer to #23 by morgan_greywolf · · Score: 1

      Physics.

      Prove it. Mathematically. I'll wait here while you work it out.

    2. Re:I know the answer to #23 by Arc+the+Daft · · Score: 1
      How about you give me an example of something in biology that doesn't follow from physics.

      If it is so, then we would have on our hands a great discovery in Physics, Biology and Mathematics all at the same time.

      I suspect that the biology of one or more processes has been discovered already and the math to bridge the gap from existing theories needs to be invented.

      But pay no attention to me, I don't know what I'm talking about!

    3. Re:I know the answer to #23 by morgan_greywolf · · Score: 1

      How about you give me an example of something in biology that doesn't follow from physics.

      Because you can't prove a negative.

      I suspect that the biology of one or more processes has been discovered already and the math to bridge the gap from existing theories needs to be invented.

      Math is not invented. It is discovered. That's like saying that Columbus invented America.

      But pay no attention to me, I don't know what I'm talking about!

      No comment.

    4. Re:I know the answer to #23 by Arc+the+Daft · · Score: 1
      You are conflating the underlying physical reality with the tools used to model and explain it.

      That was pretty much the whole point of my first post. Physics is used to explain the fundamental underlying principals. By definition, if something in biology was found to conflict with the laws of physics, the current theory would be reviewed and meticulously analyzed until it could be explained or amended.

      I'll leave it to you or any Biologist to point me to anything that suggests that biology defies physics.

    5. Re:I know the answer to #23 by Sj0 · · Score: 1

      Science is all about disproving a positive.

      So it's easy. Simply systematically observe the reactions in biology. Attempt to model each one using currently understood physics. If you find one reactions which don't fit into our current models, congratulations -- you're going to win a nobel prize, but more importantly you'll win an argument on Slashdot!

      --
      It's been a long time.
    6. Re:I know the answer to #23 by emilng · · Score: 1

      Math is not invented. It is discovered. That's like saying that Columbus invented America.

      I don't think your argument quite works.

      You can also "discover" all of Shakespeare's works if you throw enough monkeys with typewriters at the problem by your rationale.

      Part of inventing comes from discovering. Sure. I'll give you that, but the language of mathematics and the abstractions we've developed to lead us to our current understanding of mathematics were all invented.

    7. Re:I know the answer to #23 by Draek · · Score: 1

      Because you can't prove a negative

      Actually you can, under very specific definitions of "negative" ;) whether it's applicable to the GP's request is debatable, however.

      Math is not invented. It is discovered.

      Whether math is discovered or invented is an ongoing philosophical debate in the mathematical community, so unless you know something the rest of the world doesn't, you can't state that as a fact.

      --
      No problem is insoluble in all conceivable circumstances.
  13. Following in Hilbert's footsteps huh by dido · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I wonder if it's just coincidence that the number of problems they list is the same as the number of problems David Hilbert listed in his famous address in 1900. And well, the Riemann Hypothesis is there too. A hundred years later, and still no resolution.

    --
    Qu'on me donne six lignes écrites de la main du plus honnête homme, j'y trouverai de quoi le faire pendre.
    1. Re:Following in Hilbert's footsteps huh by fatphil · · Score: 1

      It's an obvious mimic of Hilbert. Unsurprisingly, the guy compiling them is a loon who has ideas above his station.

      See:
      www.ams.org/notices/200804/tx080400445p.pdf
      http://golem.ph.utexas.edu/category/2007/12/challenges_for_the_future.html

      --
      Also FatPhil on SoylentNews, id 863
    2. Re:Following in Hilbert's footsteps huh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Of course it's not a coincidence... quite the opposite, it's proof that Hilbert was an illuminatus, just like these folks are secretly controlled by the illuminati, too.

  14. Re:Tough math by 4D6963 · · Score: 1

    Ha! The subtlety of your sarcasm nearly evaded the grasp of my comprehension. Well done sir!

    --
    You just got troll'd!
  15. Since you mentioned Good Will Hunting by QuantumG · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Say I'm working at N.S.A. Somebody puts a code on my desk, something nobody else can break. So I take a shot at it and maybe I break it. And I'm real happy with myself, 'cause I did my job well. But maybe that code was the location of some rebel army in North Africa or the Middle East. Once they have that location, they bomb the village where the rebels were hiding and fifteen hundred people I never had a problem with get killed.

    Now the politicians are sayin' "send in the Marines to secure the area" 'cause they don't give a shit. It won't be their kid over there, gettin' shot. Just like it wasn't them when their number got called, 'cause they were pullin' a tour in the National Guard. It'll be some guy from Southie takin' shrapnel in the ass. And he comes home to find that the plant he used to work at got exported to the country he just got back from. And the guy who put the shrapnel in his ass got his old job, 'cause he'll work for fifteen cents a day and no bathroom breaks. Meanwhile my buddy from Southie realizes the only reason he was over there was so we could install a government that would sell us oil at a good price. And of course the oil companies used the skirmish to scare up oil prices so they could turn a quick buck. A cute, little ancillary benefit for them but it ain't helping my buddy at two-fifty a gallon. And naturally they're takin' their sweet time bringin' the oil back and maybe even took the liberty of hiring an alcoholic skipper who likes to drink seven and sevens and play slalom with the icebergs and it ain't too long 'til he hits one, spills the oil, and kills all the sea-life in the North Atlantic. So my buddy's out of work and he can't afford to drive so he's got to walk to the job interviews which sucks 'cause the shrapnel in his ass is givin' him chronic hemorrhoids. And meanwhile he's starvin' 'cause every time he tries to get a bite to eat the only blue-plate special they're servin' is North Atlantic scrod with Quaker State.

    So what'd I think? I'm holdin' out for somethin' better. I figure I'll eliminate the middle man. Why not just shoot my buddy, take his job and give it to his sworn enemy, hike up gas prices, bomb a village, club a baby seal, hit the hash pipe and join the National Guard? Christ, I could be elected President.

    --
    How we know is more important than what we know.
    1. Re:Since you mentioned Good Will Hunting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If anyone has not seen this movie, I highly suggest that they do...

    2. Re:Since you mentioned Good Will Hunting by Floritard · · Score: 1

      but it ain't helping my buddy at two-fifty a gallon.

      Wow, that's expensive...

    3. Re:Since you mentioned Good Will Hunting by VShael · · Score: 0, Troll

      So you're saying... George Bush is a sexually abused maths genius?

    4. Re:Since you mentioned Good Will Hunting by brocktune · · Score: 1

      $2.50 a gallon? Sweet.

    5. Re:Since you mentioned Good Will Hunting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why do geeks take all of their values from movies? Like they don't even care that Yoda is a puppet. If the drama is there, then they listen.
       
      Nerds take whatever message, philosophy, bullsht is sold to them just as long as it's entertaining.

    6. Re:Since you mentioned Good Will Hunting by ca111a · · Score: 1

      Well, one with such talents could always join an investment company or hedge fund, say as a quantitative analyst. That will insure that your talent is only used to improve the lives of your fellow citizens. oh, wait...

    7. Re:Since you mentioned Good Will Hunting by Free+the+Cowards · · Score: 1

      Perhaps they just appreciate a well-spoken expression of sentiments they already hold, you colossal asshole.

      --
      If you mod me Overrated, you are admitting that you have no penis.
    8. Re:Since you mentioned Good Will Hunting by khallow · · Score: 1

      If you let movies think for you, you deserve what you get.

    9. Re:Since you mentioned Good Will Hunting by DeusExMach · · Score: 1

      ...jesus. GWH was a prescient fucking movie...

    10. Re:Since you mentioned Good Will Hunting by DeusExMach · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Actually, geeks are the ones writing the movies. What you are hearing is those values coming out of very highly-paid mouthpieces. Y'see, we already hold these values true to our hearts, so when we hear what we're already thinking come back to us out of Matt Damon or Brad Pitt's mug, of course we're going to latch on to it, and repeat it when appropriate, as it is in this case.

      If anything, the point that is being made by most of these geek-cred-laden messages is that we really should think twice before succumbing to the consumer-addicted mainstream message being espoused by NASCAR-watching, Walmart-shopping popped-collar-wearing frat-boy retards who go on to hold political positions that they got because of their fathers and uncles who were not only legacy members of the frat, but legacy members in the businesses and also our government. These are usually official jobs that we would do much much better jobs of if we didn't see the entire political process as selling out by going to work for the Evil Empire.

      "Tak[ing] whatever message, philosophy, bullshit [that] is sold to them as long as it's entertaining" fits the guys playing Madden '09 while wearing a WWE tshirt a lot better than it does actual geeks.

      But you know all that already, considering this is a geek blog, and you wouldn't be here if you didn't already consider yourself a geek. ...so the only REAL question is: why all the self-hate, brah? You know we love you.

    11. Re:Since you mentioned Good Will Hunting by mr_3ntropy · · Score: 1

      But you know all that already, considering this is a geek blog, and you wouldn't be here if you didn't already consider yourself a geek. ...so the only REAL question is: why all the self-hate, brah? You know we love you.

      ha ha you said blog

    12. Re:Since you mentioned Good Will Hunting by DeusExMach · · Score: 1

      Of course I did. What, you didn't think I'd call this news, did you?

  16. the art of posing problems by e**(i+pi)-1 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    There is an art in finding good questions. Hilbert did it in 1900 with his 23 problems or the millenia problems in 2000. Some of the 23 problems stated are too vague. The first example: "Develop the mathematics of the brain". This covers large parts of computer science, artificial intelligence and psychology. What does "mathematically consistent" mean? A mathematical problem can be taken seriously if there is a clear goal and if there is a possibility to determine, when the problem is solved. This is not the case for many of the problems listed on this website.

    1. Re:the art of posing problems by wisty · · Score: 1

      I would say that most of these are so vague that they are 'research areas', rather than 'questions'. Sort of like 'develop a mathematically consistent model for the motions of heavenly bodies'. They do sound fun though.

    2. Re:the art of posing problems by Zironic · · Score: 1

      Actually it is rather specific. They want you to build a working brain simulator with a math foundation rather then guesses at what the brain is doing biologically.

      AFAIK mathematically consistent means that it's all derived from the axioms without any hand waving.

    3. Re:the art of posing problems by RockoTDF · · Score: 1

      What they mean is to nail down equations which can be used to govern and predict brain activity in a similar fashion to the ones we have in physics. Essentially they are saying that Neuroscience needs to be approached from a more quantitative perspective than biological due to its complexity. Ie we can't totally figure out the brain with MRI and microscopes. However, more of this work will be done on computers than chalkboards. Check this out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computational_neuroscience

      --
      There is more to science than physics!

      www.iomalfunction.blogspot.com
    4. Re:the art of posing problems by blahplusplus · · Score: 1

      "Actually it is rather specific. They want you to build a working brain simulator with a math foundation rather then guesses at what the brain is doing biologically."

      What they are asking for is a contradiction in terms, math is derived from thought, we do not think using abstract formal systems, we think using direct neurological computation, the "mathematics" we have invented is not the language of the brain, it is a derivitive language of some more basic unified language.

      Math is the problem, the brain does not work by formal symbol computation, math is derived from neurological computation. This has been scientifically studied. See:

      http://www.amazon.com/Molecule-Metaphor-Neural-Language-Bradford/dp/0262562359/

    5. Re:the art of posing problems by mangu · · Score: 1

      The first example: "Develop the mathematics of the brain". This covers large parts of computer science, artificial intelligence and psychology. What does "mathematically consistent" mean?

      The way I understood it is "develop a mathematical model of consciousness". Something that very smart people have been wondering about for some time.

    6. Re:the art of posing problems by Yvanhoe · · Score: 4, Insightful

      A mathematically consistent formulation would have prevented me from submitting "cat /dev/null" as a proposition, with the annotation that this is a program simulating the output of a dead brain.

      These are not mathematical problems (well, not all of them). Some are physics, most are algorithmic and a few are really mathematical questions. But things like "the brain" is not a mathematical object and thus has no place in the formulation of a mathematical question.

      --
      The Wise adapts himself to the world. The Fool adapts the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the Fool.
    7. Re:the art of posing problems by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It might be ironic that we came up with math with our brains, and that now math will explain the brain, but it is not a contradiction in terms.

    8. Re:the art of posing problems by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's true. The DARPA questions are not closed questions, the shape and form of the answers are not clear, and the definition of the terms used in the problem itself are not entirely clear. As questions for mathematicians, these are poorly posed problems.

      But taken as problems that will require mathematics, as opposed to problems for mathematicians, these are important questions that need answering. These are questions with application.

      In many cases, these questions note a development in theoretical mathematics, and challenges it to be extended to apply to a specific difficult, valuable, unsolved real-world problem.

      Unlike the Millennium Prize, the DARPA challenge is not designed around improving our knowledge of pure mathematical theory, and so it's questions are less pure than the Millennium Prize. These questions probably won't be solved definitively, or by a single paper. They don't fit the mold of a problem a mathematician will find comfortable.

    9. Re:the art of posing problems by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 1

      Actually it is rather specific. They want you to build a working brain simulator

      Define "working brain simulator". Include a complete and definitive set of criteria by which it can be determined whether something is a working brain simulator or not.

      Without that definition and those criteria, it's not specific at all.

    10. Re:the art of posing problems by AeiwiMaster · · Score: 1

      This is DARPA research so the exact problem formulation is classified. ;-)

    11. Re:the art of posing problems by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      You are Alan Turing and I claim my ten pounds.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    12. Re:the art of posing problems by zAPPzAPP · · Score: 1

      Discovering the Secrets of the Human Brain gives us one free extra tech.

    13. Re:the art of posing problems by tgv · · Score: 1

      Well, the different opinions above already show there is not an easy interpretation, but it clearly says "functional". In neurospeak, that means: we're not interested in neural firing patterns or genetic expression of FOXP21 in a rat's hippocampus while learning to navigate a maze with electric shock plates during different phases of starvation. Instead, we're interested in language, vision, motor planning, memory, etc. The "mathematically consistent" bit is to me (IAACNCM: I Am A Computational Neuro-Cognitive Modeler) nonsense. If you can run it on a computer, it should be consistent enough. Predictive doesn't mean anything: if you've got a good model, it is predictive by itself (modulo hardware requirements...).

      So yes, this is a reformulation in the vagest terms of long running AI and cognitive psychology research, which DARPA is funding heavily since the 70s.

    14. Re:the art of posing problems by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Forcing the brain to follow a mathematical model is similar to how in the age of computers people try to model the brain after computers. See how the brain works before you try to model it after the system of the day. I'd say the question says more about the person asking it than it does about the brain.

    15. Re:the art of posing problems by ajrs · · Score: 1

      You are Alan Turing and I claim my ten pounds.

      If your a regular on slashdot, I'll bet you can claim a lot more pounds than 10.

    16. Re:the art of posing problems by reverseengineer · · Score: 1

      Hilbert's original problems weren't all particularly well posed either- most of the ones that can be now considered "settled" were well-posed in 1900, as well as some of those outstanding (the conditions of the Riemann Hypothesis are clear, for example), but the original 23 contain a number of vague "discipline-extension" problems as well. Number 23 for example is "extend the methods of the calculus of variations," a task to which a large number of mathematicians can lay claim.

      --
      "FDA staff reviewers expressed concern about the number of patients who were left out of the study because they died."
    17. Re:the art of posing problems by khallow · · Score: 1

      I think they did well with that question. There's no coherent mathematics of observation, sentience, cognition, etc. We don't know enough to have a clear goal. So any question in that area that was clear, specific, etc would be ill-posed.

    18. Re:the art of posing problems by Idiomatick · · Score: 1

      Haha. "working brain simulator" is NOT a well defined question. Well defined questions layout the foundation for the solution. Actually the first chapter of my CS book on algorithm design goes into detail about 'identifying a specific and well defined task'.
      "1 + 1 ="

      "Quick-Union: Implement an optimal algorithm determines the connectivity between any two given nodes and an array of connections between nodes."

      "Given a black/white bitmap image of NxN size develop an algorithm to navigate between any two places without passing through any black spaces. Determine the shortest path or declare it impossible as necessary. Diagonal movement is allowed (counted as root2 steps)."

      All the parts are in place. The question is not at all vague. And the more complicated alg courses allow for the answers the be found in a variety of ways. But what the solutions provide will be the same. Asking for a brain simulator is like saying make a program that makes me smile is well-defined.

    19. Re:the art of posing problems by blacknblu · · Score: 1

      Larry: [to Jennings, while high] Okay. That means that our whole solar system could be, like one tiny atom in the fingernail of some other giant being. [Jennings nods] This is too much! That means one tiny atom in my fingernail could be--
      Jennings: Could be one little tiny universe.
      Larry: Could I buy some pot from you?

      --
      "Does this wine taste funny to you?" -- Socrates
    20. Re:the art of posing problems by hypomorph · · Score: 1

      AFAIK mathematically consistent means that it's all derived from the axioms without any hand waving.

      OK, but what are the axioms of which you speak? The brain is an insanely complex physical object and that forces our way of learning about it to be empirical. If we had a formal expression of a brain that could be analyzed mathematically, then the axioms would be cut and dry -- inherent in the formal system.

      I guess what I'm saying is that the presence/absence of a formal system is pretty much what defines what is and what isn't mathematics. Though, philosophers of mathematics may argue this point... On the other hand, philosophers can never agree on a point anyway, only dispute it, since philosophy isn't mathematics!

      --
      Hell, there are no rules here-- we're trying to accomplish something. --Thomas A. Edison
    21. Re:the art of posing problems by Sj0 · · Score: 1

      I'm going to go with mathematics. I want the catapult.

      Wait. What?

      --
      It's been a long time.
    22. Re:the art of posing problems by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      math is the language we use to describe nature
      "the brain" is a construct we find in nature
      ergo we can use math to describe the functioning of the brain and thus is absolutely within the regime of a mathematical question.

      unless you're taking the depressingly popular view that the brain is something metaphysical, then yeah, totally, the "the brain" is not within the scope of rationality. heres another another fun fact that'll blow your metaphysical mind: angels push the sun around the earth!

  17. Bobby Heenan Said It Best... by Notquitecajun · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    (Rough quote, probably not quite all the way accurate).

    Schiavone: The answer is easy as two plus two!

    Heenan: Five!

    Schiavone: Two plus two is FOUR, Bobby...

    Heenan: Not if you get the deal...

    1. Re:Bobby Heenan Said It Best... by Sobrique · · Score: 1

      If you define 2 as:
      1.5<=2<2.5
      Then 2+2 is somewhere between 3 and 5, and any values where 2>2.25 the answer would be rounded to 5.

    2. Re:Bobby Heenan Said It Best... by T-Ranger · · Score: 2, Informative

      Yeah. And if you define 2 as being 2=17, then 2+2 is 34. Sofuckingwhat?

    3. Re:Bobby Heenan Said It Best... by Ihmhi · · Score: 1

      PICARD: There are FOUR LIGHTS!

    4. Re:Bobby Heenan Said It Best... by PitaBred · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It matters because of rounding. It's a typical computer science mathematics problem, because it's quite common to calculate a bunch of percentages that don't add up to 100%, and they'll still be accurate. Well, mostly.

      Just because you're too stupid to understand it doesn't mean you have to use foul language to put an exclamation point on your ignorance.

    5. Re:Bobby Heenan Said It Best... by clone53421 · · Score: 1

      I disagree with GGP despite what you said. If we're doing floating point math, we don't round, and if we're doing integer math, 2.25 + 2.25 = 4, not 4.5, so it wouldn't round to 5 anyway.

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
    6. Re:Bobby Heenan Said It Best... by scotch · · Score: 1

      Or, if you define 2 to be 3 the first time it appears in an equation and equal to 2 the second time it appears in an equation, you get the same astonishing and journal-worthy result.

      --
      XML causes global warming.
    7. Re:Bobby Heenan Said It Best... by PitaBred · · Score: 1

      2.25 rounds to 2, and 4.5 rounds to 5. It's not hard to understand, unless you somehow define rounding to be different than the traditionally accepted = .5 rounds up.

    8. Re:Bobby Heenan Said It Best... by clone53421 · · Score: 1

      2.25 rounds to 2, and 4.5 rounds to 5.

      Yes, and 2.25 + 2.25 = 4, not 4.5.

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
    9. Re:Bobby Heenan Said It Best... by clone53421 · · Score: 1

      Ok, in hindsight, it depends on when you do the rounding. My previous post was based on the idea that it's stupid to add two floats and then store the result in an int (and expect it to be accurate).

      Perhaps what I should say is this: If you round your numbers, 2.25 + 2.25 = ~2 + ~2 = 4. If on the other hand 2.25 + 2.25 = 4.5 = ~5, you aren't adding "2 + 2" and you can't say "2 + 2" equaled 5.

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
  18. Yet another research grant... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    ..and most of the challenges have little to do with math. Meanwhile, here's something which could lead to real progress in mathematics (From the Slashdot Firehose):

    An anonymous reader writes:

    "Cameron Freer, an instructor in pure mathematics at MIT, is working on an intriguing project called vdash.org (video from O'Reilly Ignite Boston 4): a math wiki which only allows true theorems to be added! Based on Isabelle, a free-software theorem prover, the wiki will state all of known mathematics in a machine-readable language and verify all theorems for correctness, thus providing a knowledge base for interactive proof assistants. In addition to its benefits for education and research, such a project could reveal undiscovered connections between fields of mathematics, thus advancing some fields with no further work being necessary."

    link

    1. Re:Yet another research grant... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "..and most of the challenges have little to do with math."

      My thoughts exactly. Even as a Ph.D. in Applied Mathematics, I'm not even remotely qualified to tackle these problems. These are not math problems! They might all involve some mathematics, sure, but (for example) consider this one:

      "What are the Fundamental Laws of Biology..."

      Huh? Is this mathematical? Honestly, I'm not even sure it can be answered.

      Imagine "develop a complete theory of donuts". Well, I have a theory based on fried dough, you have a theory built up on icing. We can both talk about how well our respective theories describe doughnuts, but a doughnut is an ambiguously defined thing...all it takes is some asshole to come along with a baked doughnut covered in jelly instead of icing, and we go back to the drawing board.

      sigh. Worst. List. Of. Open. Problems. Ever.

      (BTW...there is an answer to a complete theory of biology...its called "chemistry")

  19. Vague questions by jensend · · Score: 1

    Hilbert's problems were stated fairly precisely. The Millenium Prize problems have detailed statements written by experts in the fields involved. Most of these DARPA questions could use some clarification as to what they're asking for. Hopefully that will be forthcoming.

    1. Re:Vague questions by fatphil · · Score: 1

      These are quite old. I did some research into who compiled them, earlier this year I think, and I'm pretty sure I discovered that he was some kind of crank or loon.

      --
      Also FatPhil on SoylentNews, id 863
  20. Re:Here's a tough one. by Merls+the+Sneaky · · Score: 4, Funny

    Why?

    "Because calculators are a pain in the ass."

  21. Seems perfect for slashdot by Krabbs · · Score: 1

    Here people seem to think they know everything about anything.

  22. DARPA Ethics by Ralish · · Score: 2, Insightful

    While solutions to any of these mathematical conundrums would be grand, I'm not sure I'd want to do so in the name of DARPA, or even have any association of my discoveries with DARPA.

    At the end of the day, DARPA specialises in technology that is designed to benefit the military, and as a result, is frequently designed for either either killing people, or making it easier to do so. Yes, there's the whole "defence" argument; that the technology will be used for saving lives. But this is a half-truth, the lives being saved are almost always select (only lives belonging to a certain state(s) (the US and potentially its allies in this case)), and often at the cost of other lives.

    This can of course degenerate into a whole ethics and morality debate on the value of human life, but ideally, I'd rather such findings published through an academic institute, e.g. a university, that doesn't have any ties to military technology, but rather, a persuasion to applying scientific breakthroughs in the advancement of the common good for humanity as a whole.

    I know there have been advancements that DARPA has made that have benefited humanity as a whole, such as the Internet, but keep in mind this was not the primary intent. The Internet turned out to have enormous potential outside the military, but it was military benefits that were the primary focus of the project, and they no doubt got them; the military portion of the Internet split from the public domain and is now a highly classified network, possibly with numerous innovations that are not available to the public.

    1. Re:DARPA Ethics by CRCulver · · Score: 3, Interesting

      You also have the problem of whole fields of research popping up which depend on defense money, and then shrink once the DoD shifts its priorities. I specialize in a few minority languages of Russia. Back during the Cold War, the relevant linguistics department at Indiana University Bloomington got a tonne of funding from the Air Force because its work could be connected to Soviet areal studies. Once 1991 and the fall of the USSR came along, most of the funding dried up and most jobs were lost. They never saw a need to always keep up to date with other sources of funding, and now Uralic and Altaic studies in the US are a shadow of what they once were, with European universities outclassing them.

    2. Re:DARPA Ethics by thedonger · · Score: 1

      While solutions to any of these mathematical conundrums would be grand

      It's not always the solutions but the math developed to try and find the solutions that get really interesting. Fermat's Last Theorem was solved not by a proof in a margin but by a combined effort over a century, and the math that resulted was greater than the sum of its parts.

      What is created as a result of this challenge may benefit millions of people in ways we never thought possible.

      --
      Help fight poverty: Punch a poor person.
    3. Re:DARPA Ethics by Kagura · · Score: 1

      At the end of the day, DARPA specialises in technology that is designed to benefit the military, and as a result, is frequently designed for either either killing people, or making it easier to do so. Yes, there's the whole "defence" argument; that the technology will be used for saving lives. But this is a half-truth, the lives being saved are almost always select (only lives belonging to a certain state(s) (the US and potentially its allies in this case)), and often at the cost of other lives.

      Unfortunately, there will always be people who dislike other countries. In order to defend against those countries, one needs a suitable defense force or a steadfast ally who has a suitable defense force. For all the horrible things the US government has done for the past 200 years, I am much happier that it was the US who ended up on top, rather than a less open and less civilized country. I would prefer it stay this way, as the US still has a long way to go down the dark path to fall out of my favor entirely.

    4. Re:DARPA Ethics by T-Ranger · · Score: 1

      So you are in a field that no one cares about.. You had a good run for 40 years, and that ended. And now you are mad? Sorry buddy, you should be grateful for what you got when you got it.

    5. Re:DARPA Ethics by greyhueofdoubt · · Score: 2, Insightful

      >>This can of course degenerate into a whole ethics and morality debate on the value of human life

      You call a debate on the value of human life a degeneration?

      Slashdot truly has become more cynical than I had imagined.

      -b

      --
      No offense, but I've stopped responding to AC's.
    6. Re:DARPA Ethics by Sj0 · · Score: 1

      I'm sorry, could you repost that? My screen got covered in sand-nigger Iraqi blood and your original comment got covered up.

      OH MY GOD! IT'S IRAN! THEY'RE COMING STRAIGHT FOR US!

      --
      It's been a long time.
    7. Re:DARPA Ethics by CRCulver · · Score: 1

      I'm not mad that the DoD cut off funding--at least they redirected a lot towards Arabic linguistics. My point was that it's dangerous when institutions depend on DoD funding instead of always keeping track of good private sources.

    8. Re:DARPA Ethics by UncleTogie · · Score: 1

      At the end of the day, DARPA specialises in technology that is designed to benefit the military, and as a result, is frequently designed for either either killing people, or making it easier to do so. Yes, there's the whole "defence" argument; that the technology will be used for saving lives. But this is a half-truth, the lives being saved are almost always select (only lives belonging to a certain state(s) (the US and potentially its allies in this case)), and often at the cost of other lives.

      With all due respect, that's the downside to having a military. That's their job, like it or not. Patton said it best:

      You don't win a war by dying for your country. You win a war by making the other son-of-a-bitch die for his.

      Ugly? Yes. Horrific? Quite possibly. True? Undoubtedly...

      --
      Don't tell me to get a life. I'm a gamer; I have LOTS of lives!
    9. Re:DARPA Ethics by Ralish · · Score: 1

      You misinterpret the reason why I posted that disclaimer; such debates on the value of human life are not only important but essential, but I wanted to make the point I wasn't posting my comment with the intent of starting a US foreign policy, Afghanistan/Iraq war ethics debate, as I think it could be fairly viewed as entirely off-topic.

      Keeping in mind that the whole point of my post was my ethical objection to potentially monumental scientific discoveries being associated with a military research outfit, it should be pretty clear that I value human life to a significant extent ;)

    10. Re:DARPA Ethics by bsDaemon · · Score: 1

      At least The Bear is on the prowl again. I heard it from Sarah Palin so it must be true.

  23. Different intent from Millennium Prize. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    While there are some parallels, the Millenium Prize is a set of Problems. It's a set of specific theorems that are not proven. The challenge is to prove or disprove the theorem (P=NP, Poincare conjecture, Reimann Hypothesis, etc.) It starts with definite propositions that are believed to be true, and challenges proof of those propositions.

    The DARPA Challenges is a set of questions that need answering. In a few cases (Reimann Hypothesis, Hodge Conjecture) they overlap. However, the DARPA questions are more typically like: "An Information Theory for Virus Evolution: Can Shannon's theory shed light on this fundamental area of biology?" In the DARPA case, they don't know whether their questions are answerable, or what the answers look like. The challenge is not one of proof, but one of developing new theory.

  24. Those aren't questions by ghostunit · · Score: 5, Informative

    They are asking the reader to create entire fields! how lazy of them.

  25. Re:Here's a tough one. by Bob54321 · · Score: 2, Interesting
    --
    :(){ :|:& };:
  26. Re:Here's a tough one. by SpinyNorman · · Score: 3, Funny

    Not as much as using logs.

  27. Re:Here's a tough one. by martin-boundary · · Score: 1

    Only one, but since you need the Axiom of Choice to implement the algorithm, it might not work.

  28. They're not asking for much. by jdc180 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    They only want a mathematical model of the brain, a mathematical model of society as a whole, and fundamental laws of biology so they can answer 'why we are here'.

    1. Re:They're not asking for much. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They only want a mathematical model of the brain, a mathematical model of society as a whole, and fundamental laws of biology so they can answer 'why we are here'.

      I'll get Slartibartfast working on it straightaway, but it might take four or five billion years.

    2. Re:They're not asking for much. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They only want a mathematical model of the brain, a mathematical model of society as a whole

      Hari Seldon, do your own work, thank you.

      - Peder

  29. re: janitors... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    they really are challenged:

    "which each carry a $1M prize."

    try:

    "each of which carries a $1M prize."

  30. Re:Here's a tough one. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Is it mathematician joke time again?

    An engineer, a mathematician and an engineer are in separate hotel rooms. They each have a fire in the room when they are asleep.

    The engineer grabs his ice bucket, fills it with water, dumps it on the fire and goes back to bed.

    The physicist carefully measures how much fuel the fire has, how fast it is spreading and how much oxygen is available for the fire, then calculates exactly how much water he needs and dumps it on the fire.

    The mathematician performs the same calculations as the physicist, proclaims "A solution exists!" and goes back to bed.

  31. They missed one by sizzzzlerz · · Score: 1

    If a train leaves Chicago at 8:30 headed for Denver traveling at 45 MPH...

    1. Re:They missed one by Jade+E.+2 · · Score: 4, Funny

      Oooh, I remember that one. If a train leaves Chicago at 8:30 headed for Denver traveling at 45 MPH, and at 8:45 it's parent company declares bankruptcy because Congress refused to bail out the bank that owned a controlling stake in them, and it's going the wrong direction due to a glitch in one of the two data centers that handle the entire nations routing, and the train derails in Pennsylvania at 9:00 due to track damage that was never repaired from the last hurricane, killing most of the people on board, where do they bury the survivors?

      I can't believe they left that off the list!

    2. Re:They missed one by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Where ever they or their families choose for them to be buried.......

    3. Re:They missed one by UncleTogie · · Score: 1

      Where ever they or their families choose for them to be buried.......

      Looks like someone fell for it. ;)

      Personally, I'd avoid burying any survivors...

      --
      Don't tell me to get a life. I'm a gamer; I have LOTS of lives!
    4. Re:They missed one by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A train leaves Chicago at 8:30 and reaches Pennsylvania at 9AM?

          WOW! The answer must have to do with a timewarp.

    5. Re:They missed one by Darby · · Score: 1

      Looks like someone fell for it. ;)

      Personally, I'd avoid burying any survivors...

      I don't think he fell for it. He did specify that they themselves could specify where they were to be buried. I'm guessing he got the joke.

    6. Re:They missed one by DeusExMach · · Score: 1

      Clarification is needed: was the engineer texting at the time?

    7. Re:They missed one by clone53421 · · Score: 1

      No, no, no. Read it again. "[...] killing most of the people on board, where do they bury the survivors?" Obviously "they" refers to the people who were killed, and they can't bury the survivors because they're dead.

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
    8. Re:They missed one by dw604 · · Score: 1

      And was the engineer sending text messages on the same day he worked?

    9. Re:They missed one by Prien715 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      In cash, because they sue the track operators and get a huge class action lawsuit settled out of court for a bajillion dollars.

      --
      -- Political fascism requires a Fuhrer.
  32. These aren't individual questions by roystgnr · · Score: 1

    Not like the Millenium Prize problems, certainly. They're broad fields, some of which aren't even primarily mathematical and some of which already have some existing answers. That web page appears to be quoting the DARPA .doc precisely, but it reads as if it were a brief summary of a real RFP.

    Just looking at the first few examples:

    A predictive theory of the brain? That'll be a fantastic biological breakthrough, but I doubt it'll require any new mathematics.

    I'm happy to see that "persistence in stochastic environments" is considered a hot topic by others, too, but they could be a little less vague about what they mean by it. The hyperlinked article there seems unrelated.

    Foams, suspensions, gels, liquid crystals, etc. can be modeled with the same conservation equations as Navier-Stokes, just with more complex constitutive laws. Getting those laws right sometimes involves new mathematics (e.g. "homogenization") but often just requires getting better experimental measurements of the material you're interested in.

    "Biological Quantum Field Theory" sounds like another "we've got the right algorithms but just need more biological data to scale them up with" situation, but maybe this is a case where the algorithms don't yet scale optimally?

    "Duality in Mathematics" includes still-developing fields... but the answer to "Can it be extended to develop principled computational techniques where duality and geometry are the basis for novel algorithms?" is "Yes, and it has been for at least a decade or two."

  33. What are the Fundamental Laws of Biology? by fireman+sam · · Score: 1

    1 Eat
    2 shit
    3 die

    Or, if you are an underpants gnome:

    1. Eat, shit, die
    2. ???
    3. Profit

    And to answer the question above it:

    Settle the Smooth Poincare Conjecture in Dimension 4. The Poincare Conjecture in Pantene's new Dimension 4 shampoo smooths out all stubborn theories in cosmology to unlock the secret of "dark energy" and give a depth to your space-time.

    --
    it is only after a long journey that you know the strength of the horse.
    1. Re:What are the Fundamental Laws of Biology? by fireman+sam · · Score: 1

      Hating to reply to myself but...

      What is the role of homotopy theory in the classical, geometric, and quantum Langlands programs?

      The role of homotopy theory in the classical, geometric and quantum Langlands programs is to teach fashion sense to the locals of the Langlands. Ensure their hair is styled in a manner that is both masculine and sensitive. Supply shirts with overly large collars, splashed with bright colours. Fragrant and condition the Langlanders skin to be soft to the touch. Therefore, the role of homotopy theory is to give the Langlanders a Queer eye for the straight guy makeover.

      --
      it is only after a long journey that you know the strength of the horse.
    2. Re:What are the Fundamental Laws of Biology? by clone53421 · · Score: 1

      Did you forget "reproduce" or did you intentionally leave it out because this is slashdot?

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
  34. Did they get any of my favorites? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Nothing about a northbound train leaving at 10:00?

    Or, maybe, Alice can't sit next to Bill, Charlie is wearing a red shirt, Dale won't eat vegetables, Elroy has incontinence issues, and Frank sucks at photoshop. Based on this, which one is left handed?

    1. Re:Did they get any of my favorites? by Whiteox · · Score: 2, Funny

      The best I've heard is:

      If Carol has 5 oranges, and
      Ted has 7 apples, and
      Sue has 3 bananas, then

      (wait for it)....

      How many nuts does Bill have?

      --
      Don't be apathetic. Procrastinate!
    2. Re:Did they get any of my favorites? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Assuming it's a quadratic function, Bill has -7 nuts.

    3. Re:Did they get any of my favorites? by jonaskoelker · · Score: 1

      (uberdorky voice) no no no, it's not five, seven, three; it's three, seven, nine. And then Bill has one nut to rule them all.

    4. Re:Did they get any of my favorites? by Sj0 · · Score: 1

      Ok.

      My bet is either Alice, because she complains about sitting next to ANYONE because she's left handed, or Elroy, because incontinence suggests advanced age, and after a lifetime of using your dominant right hand, you'll actually switch because your main hand is too dilapidated to continue the task.(since natural lefties are extremely rare, it's more likely to see someone who "graduated" into the task)

      --
      It's been a long time.
  35. All roads lead to goatse? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There must be some kind of analogue to Godwin's law here...

    1. Re:All roads lead to goatse? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There must be some kind of analogue to Godwin's law here...

      Ours was committed, it wasn't just a string of pussy jokes.

      What happend when a jew with a boner walked into a wall?

      He breaks his nose

  36. Two words... by Redpill82 · · Score: 1

    Fuzzy Math

    1. Re:Two words... by PK+Tech+Guy · · Score: 1

      Go back to 4chan, fuzzfag!

  37. Re:Here's a tough one. by Whiteox · · Score: 1

    Not as much as using logs.
    They are a bit too heavy. I use paddle pop sticks instead.

    --
    Don't be apathetic. Procrastinate!
  38. Cool! by Kj0n · · Score: 3, Funny

    Now I know what to do this evening.

  39. No solve NP complete? by Sobrique · · Score: 3, Insightful
    I'm quite disappointed that they didn't include the general solution to an NP complete problem in their list.

    I'd like to be the top travelling salesman in the world, damnit!

    1. Re:No solve NP complete? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      So the DoD just leaked that they already know the solution to that one. Interesting.

    2. Re:No solve NP complete? by Free+the+Cowards · · Score: 1

      The general solution to any NP-complete problem is trivial:

      for possibility in generate_all_possibilities():
              if check(possibility):
                      found_solution(possibility)

      The tricky bit is, of course, finding the solution in any reasonable amount of time.

      --
      If you mod me Overrated, you are admitting that you have no penis.
    3. Re:No solve NP complete? by CodeBuster · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Everyone knows or at least strongly suspects that P not equal NP, it's just that nobody has been able to prove that yet. It is exceedingly unlikely that DoD or even NSA (which would certainly be interested in a proof and practical demonstration of P = NP) has proven the conjecture and even less likely that they have proven it in the affirmative ( P = NP). Decades of research by some of the best minds in theoretical computer science have barely scratched the surface of this problem (mostly closing off leads that were once thought to be promising and further reinforcing the reputation of the difficulty of the proof). The solution to this problem and a practical demonstration would be worth billions, possibly even trillions, of dollars and name placement among the great mathematicians of history. If someone had a proof it would be very unlikely that they could keep it secret for very long with those sorts of incentives for being the first to announce the discovery.

    4. Re:No solve NP complete? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think they're assuming that the general solution to an NP complete problem would be NP, like the rest of the world assumes.

    5. Re:No solve NP complete? by retchdog · · Score: 1

      The solution to this problem and a practical demonstration would be worth billions, possibly even trillions, of dollars...

      How's that exactly? As you said, "everyone knows or at least strongly suspects" the answer. Further, there are plenty of results developed on either assumption, that P=NP, or P\neq NP (and even that it's undecidable), so I don't really understand where the economic value comes in. Even if we prove P=NP (even suggesting this to most serious theorists will produce a laugh), it would likely just mean that the heuristic that "P means real-world tractable" is broken.

      --
      "They were pure niggers." – Noam Chomsky
    6. Re:No solve NP complete? by CodeBuster · · Score: 1

      How's that exactly? As you said, "everyone knows or at least strongly suspects" the answer.

      If P is not equal to NP, as most computer scientists expect, then the present situation, where problems known to be NP-Complete are very computationally costly to solve for the optimal solution, will persist into the indefinite future and possibly forever if someone manages to finally prove that P not equal NP. The fact that nobody has been able to produce either a proof OR an algorithm which solves an NP-Complete problem in P time (despite decades of dedicated programming efforts) strongly suggests, based upon exhaustive experimental evidence AND the failure to produce an affirmative proof, that P is not equal to NP.

      However, suppose for the sake of argument that some manages somehow to prove that P is equal to NP and develops an algorithm to solve a known NP-Complete problem in P time as experimental proof (the demonstration). It has already been proven that any problem in NP-Complete can be converted to any other NP-Complete problem. For example, the Traveling Salesman Problem, the Multiprocessor Scheduling Problem, and the Boolean Satisfiability Problem, etc...would all be interchangeable (i.e. if you can solve ONE in P then you can solve them ALL in P).

      Now, how much do you suppose that it would be worth to FedEx, UPS, and the postal services of the world if they could quickly calculate the optimal routes for all of their delivery schedules (the Traveling Salesman Problem)? Imagine how many gallons of fuel that would save per year and how much that would be worth. The Boolean Satisfiability Problem has huge cost savings and efficiency potential in the electronics industry. An optimal solution to the Multiprocessor Scheduling problem could dramatically improve the parallelization of concurrent but interdependent stepwise processes in grid computing and it would also apply to real world scheduling problems like making sure that students, classes, and exams are optimally scheduled to allow the most number of possible combinations in the least amount of time. Many modern cryptographic algorithms are based upon problems which are known to be NP-Complete so imagine how much various interested parties would pay to be able to quickly break the encryption schemes of their adversaries. There are so many potential cost savings opportunities with a P equals NP proof that they would all add up to billions or even trillions of total dollars saved.

    7. Re:No solve NP complete? by retchdog · · Score: 1

      If you ever get around to reading the last sentence of my post, please add to it the following: "Further, even if P faithfully captures `tractability', a P=NP proof would not necessarily give any insight on practical algorithm design."

      --
      "They were pure niggers." – Noam Chomsky
    8. Re:No solve NP complete? by HuguesT · · Score: 1

      Even if someone proved that P=NP and exhibited a P algorithm to solve all the NP problems, it may not be efficient in classical terms. If the complexity of that algorithm is O(N^1000) say then we are still better off using the meta-heuristics that are in used right now to solve them approximately.

      FYI there are efficient approximate solutions to the TSP that are guaranteed to come within a few percent of the true optimum. A P=NP proof may not be worth that much in real dollars.

    9. Re:No solve NP complete? by Another,+completely · · Score: 1

      There are so many potential cost savings opportunities with a P equals NP proof that they would all add up to billions or even trillions of total dollars saved.

      Even if we assume that's true, how much of that money would the mathematician see? The solution is worth a place in history, a couple of million in the international punditry & lecture business, and whatever the cash value is for a Turing award. Divided by the number of researchers involved.

      Still, it would be something to tell your grandkids.

    10. Re:No solve NP complete? by CodeBuster · · Score: 1

      FYI there are efficient approximate solutions to the TSP that are guaranteed to come within a few percent of the true optimum.

      I am aware of them yes, but it was my understanding that they do not guarantee the margin of error between the "good" approximate solution and the globally optimal solution (i.e. you never know for certain how "good" the approximate solution is compared to the "best" solution unless you compute them both and compare them which is impractical for most reasonably large problems). Has the upper bound on error term been proven for any problem size? It was my understanding that as the size of the problem increases (more nodes, more routes, more terms, etc) the "good" approximate solution diverges ever farther away from the globally optimal solution (i.e. becomes less and less "good" as problem size increases).

    11. Re:No solve NP complete? by retchdog · · Score: 1

      Hahahah, yes, strain like a slave to optimize your idealized quasisolution to within a few more percent.

      Meanwhile, the real world is changing the data an order of magnitude more quickly, so your solution is almost immediately obsolete. Sometimes it's better to settle for redundant fail-safe heuristics, than a "perfect" solution to an obsolete problem.

      --
      "They were pure niggers." – Noam Chomsky
  40. Urinal languages, who cares? by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

    I hear what you're saying, I just don't get why it's a problem.

    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  41. I always thought the hardest math question was: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How Much Wood Could A Wooodchuck Chuck If A Woodchuck Could Chuck Wood?

    1. Re:I always thought the hardest math question was: by Kagura · · Score: 1

      As much wood as a woodchuck could chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood.

  42. I wouldn't do this by e-scetic · · Score: 1

    Granted, DARPA gave us the internet, but this being military it will more likely be used more for evil rather than good.

    People contribute if their greed or jingoistic patriotism (some might call it sense of duty) trump their humanity and wisdom.

    1. Re:I wouldn't do this by Kagura · · Score: 1

      Tell the rest of the world to get rid of their militaries and all animosity towards the rest of their fellow man, and maybe the US will get rid of theirs, too. Until then, I don't see a lot happening in this area.

    2. Re:I wouldn't do this by Darby · · Score: 1

      Tell the rest of the world to get rid of their militaries and all animosity towards the rest of their fellow man, and maybe the US will get rid of theirs, too. Until then, I don't see a lot happening in this area.

      But that's a totally insane response that doesn't deal with the reality. We spend more than the next 10 countries put together on our military and we use it primarily for evil purposes. We have not used it for the defense of America in 2 generations, so your "point" is complete nonsense based completely on the entirely religious belief that our leaders aren't capable of doing wrong which is, again, completely insane.

      Try looking around the real world once in a while and putting down the crack pipe. You'll be quite surprised to realize that most people don't want to kill us, they just want us to stop robbing, raping and murdering them.

    3. Re:I wouldn't do this by Kagura · · Score: 1

      When did it say I supported the Bay of Pigs Invasion, Vietnam War, Grenada, the second war in Iraq, among others? That you would suggest I support this administration or some of the wars waged in the past 50 years is nonsense and entirely unfounded.

      I said nothing except the fact that we need to have a military or we will eventually get run over by another country. A wise man once told me, "When in Rome, good fences keep good neighbors." You seem to have agreed with this, but the rest of your rant is completely unwarranted.

    4. Re:I wouldn't do this by Darby · · Score: 1


      I said nothing except the fact that we need to have a military or we will eventually get run over by another country.

      No, in response to somebody else saying that the military will more likely be used for evil than good, which is obviously true, you went off about how other countries have militaries which is a complete non sequitor.

      A wise man once told me, "When in Rome, good fences keep good neighbors." You seem to have agreed with this, but the rest of your rant is completely unwarranted

      Knocking down other people's fences to steal their shit and to rob your own populace makes bad neighbors. That's the difference between what you're saying and reality.

      While having *a* military might be a necessary evil, having *our* military is a completely unnecessary evil.

      So, no, that isn't what you said at all. If that's what you meant, you should actually say that. It would still be a non sequitor though.

    5. Re:I wouldn't do this by Kagura · · Score: 1

      I was really looking forward to your reply on this topic, but if this is what you're going to give me, I'm wasting my time looking for a decent opposing viewpoint.

    6. Re:I wouldn't do this by Darby · · Score: 1

      I was really looking forward to your reply on this topic, but if this is what you're going to give me, I'm wasting my time looking for a decent opposing viewpoint.

      Opposing what? You made a non sequitor and haven't expressed anything approaching a point on the topic.

  43. whoa! by Poorcku · · Score: 1

    this is mental!

    --
    I take my children to see Madonna(..), but I never for once ever thought I was in the same business.Chris Rea.
  44. Find the answer... by Thundaaa+Struk · · Score: 1

    I had the answer to some of the these questions just by using Google, but IE crashed on me. Question (24) How to create an operating system that doesn't suck!

  45. This one hit the math blogs a while ago.... by Funkeriffic+Toad · · Score: 1

    As always /. brings us old news: The n-category cafe carried a lively discussion of this business back in December. The response from the small sampling of mathematicians represented there was highly skeptical at best. Now who knows whether or not this program will be good for DARPA in the long run. However, there should be no doubt in anybody's mind that the proposer of these problems is no David Hilbert...

    1. Re:This one hit the math blogs a while ago.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not just old news, but too late. The deadline for submissions was 8 September.

      Besides which, these aren't really math problems. Only 19, 21, and 22 could be called well-posed. The others are all vague, general stuff. I guess that makes it easier to get the grant money.

  46. wrong by thermian · · Score: 4, Funny

    For any result greater than 3 the answer is 'A suffusion of yellow'

    --
    A learning experience is one of those things that say, 'You know that thing you just did? Don't do that.' - D. Adams
    1. Re:wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow! I see you have found the I Ching Calculator!

      For those of you who missed the joke pick up "Dirk Gwently's Holistic Detective Agency" or "The Long Dark Teatime of the Soul" by Douglas Adams. You won't be disappointed.

  47. I thought it was by SkaOMatic · · Score: 0

    -777.68

  48. The mathmatics of wonton burrito meals by bonkeydcow · · Score: 1

    By the process of elimination of the gravitons and graviolies, the electron must taste like grape-aid.

  49. Ummm..no. by zish · · Score: 1

    Go back to art school, you posers!

    23 = 6

    Man, I'm so smart!

    --
    Spork.

    P.S. Spork.
    1. Re:Ummm..no. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      23 llamas = 6 buckets of spit.

      I did it for you, now stfuiircianalbtwomgfukekekekeke

  50. Requisite Warning by Comatose51 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Just in case anyone is late to this discussion, let's be very clear about one thing: "These are not homework problems!"*

    *Thanks to George Dantzig this is now a requisite warning whenever people talk about lists of difficult problems.

    --
    EvilCON - Made Famous by /.
  51. oooh let me try by Prince+Vegeta+SSJ4 · · Score: 1

    94143243431512659321054872390486828512913474876027 67195923460238582958304725016523252592969257276553 64363462727184012012643147546329450127847264841075 62234789626728592858295347502772262646456217613984 829519475412398501

  52. In case you missed it... by Nazlfrag · · Score: 2, Informative

    Here's the list:

    * The Mathematics of the Brain: Develop a mathematical theory to build a functional model of the Terminator that is mathematically consistent and predictive rather than merely biologically inspired.

    * The Dynamics of Networks: Develop the high-dimensional mathematics needed to accurately model and predict behavior in large-scale distributed networks that evolve over time occurring in communication, biology and the Matrix.

    * Capture and Harness Stochasticity in Nature: Address Mumford's call for new mathematics for the 21st century. Develop methods that apply extrodinary rendition to persistence in stochastic environments.

    * 21st Century Fluids: Classical chemical warfare and the Navier-Stokes Equation were extraordinarily successful in obtaining quantitative understanding of shock waves, turbulence and solitons, but new methods are needed to tackle complex fluids such as foams, suspensions, gels and liquid crystals.

    * Biological Quantum Field Theory: Quantum and statistical methods have had great success modeling virus evolution. Can such techniques be used to model more complex systems such as biological warfare agents? Can these techniques be used to control the battlefield?

    * Computational Duality: Duality in mathematics has been a profound tool for theoretical understanding. Can it be extended to develop principled computational techniques where duality and geometry are the basis for novel weapon systems?

    * Occam's Razor in Many Dimensions: As data collection increases can we "do more with less" by finding lower bounds for surveiling each and every citizen on the planet? This is related to questions about entropy maximization algorithms.

    * Beyond Convex Optimization: Can linear algebra be replaced by algebraic geometry in a systematic weapon guidance system?

    * What are the Physical Consequences of Perelman's Proof of Thurston's Geometrization Theorem?: Can profound theoretical advances in understanding three dimensions be applied to construct and manipulate structures across scales to fabricate giant robots?

    * Algorithmic Origami and Biology: Build a stronger mathematical theory for isometric and rigid embedding that can give insight into protein destruction.

    * Optimal Nanostructures: Develop new mathematics for constructing optimal globally symmetric structures by following simple local rules via the process of nanoscale self-assembling armor plates.

    * The Mathematics of Quantum Computing, Algorithms, and Entanglement: In the last century we learned how quantum phenomena shape our world. In the coming century we need to develop the mathematics required to blast the quantum world into little tiny pieces.

    * Creating a Game Theory that Scales: What new scalable mathematics is needed to replace the traditional Partial Differential Equations (PDE) approach to android targeting systems?

    * An Information Theory for Virus Evolution: Can Shannon's theory shed light on this fundamental area of biological warfare?

    * The Geometry of Genome Space: What notion of distance is needed to disintegrate biological utility?

    * What are the Symmetries and Action Principles for Biology?: Extend our understanding of symmetries and action principles in biology along the lines of classical thermodynamics, to include important biological concepts such as robustness, modularity, evolvability and head mounted laser beams.

    * Geometric Langlands and Quantum Explosives: How does the Langlands program, which originated in number theory and repres

    1. Re:In case you missed it... by KingOfTheMoon · · Score: 1

      #15 The Geometry of Genome Space: What notion of distance is needed to incorporate biological utility?

      Back-of-a-napkin analysis:

      1. Gnomes are approximately two spans (18") in height (neglecting rare sub-toadstool varieties).
      2. The length of the average human "biological utility" is about one inch per foot of height. (Neglecting my own super-sized utility, of course).
      3. Gnomes are roughly proportional to humans.
      4. "Incorporation" distance is = length of "biological utility."
      5. L/18 = 1/12 .: L = 1.5
      6. The "notion of distance" to "incorporate" a gnome's "biological utility" is = 1.5 inches (3.81 cm)
      Q.E.D.

      A few solid stats and this one's wrapped up.

  53. I Only Got 18 by RailGunSally · · Score: 1

    What is that, like, a C? I was never able to do percentages.

  54. Predict S&P500 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A time series like the S&P500 can currently bring all statistical models to their knees. Unlike an earlier poster, I gladly admit that I only work for the money so that I can afford a certain lifestyle I want to lead. If I can use my skills to be to accurately predict tomorrows closing price on the S&P500, then I'll have accomplished a great mathematical achievement for the world (when I reveal it), and in the process make alot of money for myself. Two moral, ethical, and legal goals.

  55. DARPA and DoD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    As if there were no better organizations to work for as a mathematician...

  56. Re:The correct answer is zero. by eat+here_get+gas · · Score: 1

    1 billion.

    But now the Iraqui's* suffer occupation and devastation, which we soothe with the infusion of billions of dollars we don't have....


    (Iraquians, whatever)

    --
    the significance of a signature is insignificant
  57. Re:Here's a tough one. by Sj0 · · Score: 1

    Here's what they don't tell you in that joke:

    The tradesman was at the same convention, in the same hotel, but didn't have a fire in his room because he kept the vendor swag from "spark throwing alarm clocks inc." and "oily rags inc." apart.

    --
    It's been a long time.
  58. Alternative format by trevdak · · Score: 0

    The trick with these problems is to ask the right questions. I think they'd have a lot more right answers if they made the problems multiple choice.

  59. Bullets? by Sentax · · Score: 1

    For being about math problems, it's kind of ironic they would use bullet list on the questions rather than a number list.

    Kind of hard to count up to 23 on the list is my whole point I'm trying to get at.

  60. You call those a chalenge? by marcosdumay · · Score: 1

    Answers:
    1. No. But read the fine print and you'll discover that you are giving more than 700 bilion.
    2. Nothing, it is being wiped out by stock invertors' ineptitude. (Or are you asking how much was lost by financing idiotic CEO's? That is a toughter question.)
    3. With a bailout, near US$800 bilion. Without it, they'll be out of the job by the year's end.

  61. After looking at the problems... by LoyalOpposition · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Strange. I don't see the one about the train leaving Chicago at 6:00...

    -Loyal

    --
    I aim to misbehave.
  62. Is it ethic? by chord.wav · · Score: 1

    That knowledge will be used against us... That's why I'm not telling them the answers...Please don't insist.

  63. Will solve math problems to kill people by musth · · Score: 1

    Yay for the DOD.

    1. Re:Will solve math problems to kill people by DeusExMach · · Score: 1

      I use to kill people for a living. Now it's just a hobby.

  64. So they can answer 'why we are here'. by J_Omega · · Score: 1

    Why do they need all of that? What does wikipedia have to say? :

    DARPA was established in 1958 in response to the Soviet launching of Sputnik in 1957, with the mission of keeping U.S. military technology ahead of the nation's enemies. From DARPA's own introduction[1]:

    DARPAâ(TM)s original mission, established in 1958, was to prevent technological surprise like the launch of Sputnik, which signaled that the Soviets had beaten the U.S. into space. The mission statement has evolved over time. Today, DARPAâ(TM)s mission is still to prevent technological surprise to the US, but also to create technological surprise for our enemies.

    to create technological surprise
    They exist to invent The Transformers.

    1. Re:So they can answer 'why we are here'. by PK+Tech+Guy · · Score: 1

      "to create technological surprise" just isnt as catchy as "more than meets the eyes..."

  65. Finished by Bobb+Sledd · · Score: 1

    OK, I finished the test. Whew, that *was* a toughy! I think I might have gotten one of them wrong, but where do I send my answers?

    --
    "They said I probly shouldn't fly with just one eye," "I am Bender. Please insert girder."
  66. Encouraging? It's stronger than that.... by tacokill · · Score: 4, Informative

    How about we use the correct term and call it what it is: legislation.

    Congress didn't "encourage" subprime lending. They required it. (please excuse the McCain propaganda in this video...not meant to be political but it has some very relevant facts to the question at hand)

    Doesn't anyone remember "redlining" mortgages from the 80's and 90's? Here is some background info. Read the part about mortgages.

    Congress reacted to this by legislating subprime lending and requiring banks to provide X% of their loans to people who probably should not have gotten them.

    ...and yes, I expect to get modded down just because the video is clearly pro-McCain.

  67. The easiest answer of all by mangu · · Score: 1

    How to create an operating system that doesn't suck!

    1) Take a Finnish student
    2) ???
    3) Here's the unanswered part: how do you get a profit?

  68. Exactly. by 2short · · Score: 1


    3 of the things on that list are Math questions: the ones that start with "Settle the ____ [conjecture/hypothesis]"

    The rest are at best areas of study, and only a few of those are areas of study in Mathematics.

  69. Is too much... by TheDarkMaster · · Score: 1

    It is asking too much for the mathematician that he explain what a hell means each variable in giant formulas does he do? Without this, is just a bunch of letters and symbols.

    --
    Religion: The greatest weapon of mass destruction of all time
  70. Does anyone think by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That number 2:
    The Dynamics of Networks: Develop the high-dimensional mathematics needed to accurately model and predict behavior in large-scale distributed networks that evolve over time occurring in communication, biology and the social sciences.

    Was based on Psychohistory?

  71. I always thought the hardest question was by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why is 6 afraid of 7?

  72. Mathematics for Government by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I will not do the government's homework nor will I ever produce anything of mathematical significance for a governmental agency.

    1. Re:Mathematics for Government by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well I can rest easier now.

  73. 23 toughest math questions? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I counted 24. Man, this thing is tough before you even start.

  74. Toughest question solved by AWESOM-O by seandiggity · · Score: 1

    The answer is 17.

    --
    Geeks like to think that they can ignore politics, you can leave politics alone, but politics won't leave you alone.-rms
  75. 23 questions by monk · · Score: 1

    Captain Clark welcomes you aboard.

    --
    [-- Trust the Monkey --]
  76. thoughtcrime by globaljustin · · Score: 1

    harrasment of anyone thinking too freely

    Yes! I read that too. Most of the problems seem truly mathematical in nature, but the first two especially seemed Orewellian:

    1. The Mathematics of the Brain: Develop a mathematical theory to build a functional model of the brain that is mathematically consistent and predictive rather than merely biologically inspired.

    Emphasis mine...the second one is worse.

    2. The Dynamics of Networks: Develop the high-dimensional mathematics needed to accurately model and predict behavior in large-scale distributed networks that evolve over time occurring in communication, biology and the social sciences.

    They want to quantify every aspect of human existence and be able to predict with high accuracy every potential human behavior. Just re-read that sentence once and ponder if you really want the government to be able to do that, given what we've seen them do to people in the War on Terror (TM).

    The worst part is, human behavior is never, repeat: NEVER going to be able to be predicted on that level. Sure there are tendencies, but correlation is not causation, and the best we can do in the predictive sense is observe tendencies. If the DoD's goal is to have total predictive awareness of an individual's thoughts and actions, they will eventually come up with something...whether it works or not!

    That's the root of it...they can't do it, but they're spending so much money trying that eventually they will have to come up with some BS system (polygraph combined with brain imaging and psycological profile) and call it a predictive system.

    Their goals may seem innocuous at first (and I don't want to insinuate evil intentions on any one individual, save Dick Cheney)...the old "national security" but we know how that evolves into just maintaining power over the citizenry.

    Humans behavior will NEVER be quantifiable enough to do what the DoD and DARPA want.

    --
    Thank you Dave Raggett
  77. Re:Here's a tough one. by dkleinsc · · Score: 1

    Ok, here's my bid: An engineer and a mathematician were trying to each fence off the largest field possible using a set amount of fence. The engineer calculated out the optimum position of the perimeter and fenced off a field. The mathematician made a tiny fence around himself and said "I'm on the outside".

    --
    I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
  78. Re:Here's a tough one. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I hope he used paper as well.

  79. Bizarre list by exp(pi*sqrt(163)) · · Score: 1

    I've seen this list before and I really dislike it.

            * The Mathematics of the Brain: Develop a mathematical theory to build a functional model of the brain that is mathematically consistent and predictive rather than merely biologically inspired.

    This isn't an issue of mathematics. Sure, when we come to the stage when we can model brains we'll be using mathematics. But the question of how to model brains isn't itself mathematics.

            * Biological Quantum Field Theory: Quantum and statistical methods have had great success modeling virus evolution. Can such techniques be used to model more complex systems such as bacteria? Can these techniques be used to control pathogen evolution?

    This is highly suspect stuff. There isn't really a subject called "Biological Quantum Field Theory" and I doubt that anything similar to QFT has been used to model virus evolution.

            * Computational Duality: Duality in mathematics has been a profound tool for theoretical understanding. Can it be extended to develop principled computational techniques where duality and geometry are the basis for novel algorithms?

    These are just empty buzzwords. There are already countless things called "duality" all the way through computer science.

            * An Information Theory for Virus Evolution: Can Shannon's theory shed light on this fundamental area of biology?

    I'm ambivalent about this one. People were interested in this decades ago and I read a good chunk of the literature. But nothing real has come out of it. Maybe something could. But biological systems are inherently messy and I'm not sure that new mathematics is the solution.

            * The Geometry of Genome Space: What notion of distance is needed to incorporate biological utility?

    This simply isn't mathematics. I worked in a similar field years ago. But this wasn't really a subject that would push forward mathematics, it was just creative use of mathematics in a new domain. There's no deep mathematics to be found here.

            * What are the Symmetries and Action Principles for Biology?: Extend our understanding of symmetries and action principles in biology along the lines of classical thermodynamics, to include important biological concepts such as robustness, modularity, evolvability and variability.

    This is a bit off the wall. The person behind this list clearly sees some kind of analogy between quantum mechanics and biology (eg. biological QFT above). Wacky ideas are all well and good, but making some 'official' list from one person's hobby horse seems very strange to me.

            * Settle the Smooth Poincare Conjecture in Dimension 4: What are the implications for space-time and cosmology? And might the answer unlock the secret of "dark energy"?

    The mention of "dark energy" here is completely bogus. I guess it's a scheme to raise funding or something by trying to link some pure mathematics to a hot topic.

            * What are the Fundamental Laws of Biology?: This question will remain front and center for the next 100 years. DARPA places this challenge last as finding these laws will undoubtedly require the mathematics developed in answering several of the questions listed above.

    Again, "Fundamental Laws of Biology" sounds like one person's hobby horse than any serious trend in biology. And anyway, this isn't mathematics. We already have a Fundamental Law of Biology, it's called "Evolution by Natural Selection". Just about everything else slots into that framework and we explain almost everything in biology in terms of this. Sure, it'd be nice to extract some solid numerical predictions from evolution, but that's not a problem for mathematics.

    --
    Doesn't it make you feel good to know that our freedoms are protected by politicans, lawyers and journalists.
  80. Question 24 by SirStiff · · Score: 1

    Prove that the questions above are the world's 23 toughest math questions.

  81. This sentence... wow. by clone53421 · · Score: 2, Funny

    So if you have ever wanted to settle the Riemann Hypothesis, which I won't begin to describe but it is one of the great unanswered questions in math history, experts say. Or perhaps you've always had a theory about Dark Energy, which in a nutshell holds that the universe is ever-expanding, this may be your calling.

    I can't really call it a sentence, because somehow it turned into two of them... and it doesn't really work like that.

    --
    Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
  82. Yang-Mills: flying circus of quantum field theory by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    did anyone else notice in the article:

    "Settle the Riemann Hypothesis: The Holy Grail of number theory."

    where, "the holy grail" linked to the monty python wikipedia article..... good work....

  83. Re:Encouraging? It's stronger than that.... by insllvn · · Score: 1

    What was the source of your video? It has been pulled by Warner Music Group. I don't want to sound like a member of the tin foil hat brigade, but this is not the first time in recent days I have been sent to youtube to watch a video about political scandal only to find it pulled by a media company. Am I alone in this, and just being paranoid, or is something else going on?

  84. Re:Oh yeah? by steelfood · · Score: 1

    But things like "the brain" is not a mathematical object and thus has no place in the formulation of a mathematical question.

    Let's see how quickly you can formulate a mathematical question after having your brain eaten by a zombie.

    --
    "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be."
  85. The Real Answer by isBandGeek() · · Score: 2, Funny

    It's over 9000!

  86. Re:Encouraging? It's stronger than that.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Can you explain what was in the video, now that it has been pulled?

  87. So basically... by LordCaptain · · Score: 1

    DARPA = military attempts to get help through open source.

  88. Re:Here's a tough one. by Eudial · · Score: 1

    It's okay so long as they are imaginary.

    --
    GAAH! MY PRINTER IS ON FIRE!!! PUT IT OUT! PUT IT OUT!
  89. A whole class of problems missing by iangoldby · · Score: 1

    I write this with tongue slightly in cheek, but there is also a serious point...

    I think there is a whole class of problems missing that if solved could have an immediate impact on every day life. I'm thinking of underspecified problems where you have made an 'investment' that looks like it might fail and you have to decide whether to bail out:

    1. You are waiting for a bus but the bus is late. How long should you keep waiting before giving up and looking for an alternative? You don't know how often buses run on this route or whether the bus you are waiting for has been cancelled or is just late. You want to arrive as soon as possible, but trying to find an alternative mode of transport will take a long time.

    2. You are in a checkout queue. The one to your right seems to be moving faster. Should you switch?

    3. You have invested in shares that are on a downward slide. Do you bail out, or hold on in the hope that they recover?

    The problem with all of these is you don't have any estimate for how likely the 'investment' is to succeed. With the waiting for the bus example, the probability of it arriving in the next minute ought to increase the longer you wait, but the longer you wait the greater the 'cost' if it doesn't arrive at all.

    You may argue that if you can't estimate the probability then the problem has no solution. I'd just argue that this makes it a 'hard' problem ;-)

  90. Psychohistory? by louiswins · · Score: 1

    The Dynamics of Networks: Develop the high-dimensional mathematics needed to accurately model and predict behavior in large-scale distributed networks that evolve over time occurring in communication, biology and the social sciences.

    Am I reading this wrong, or do they actually want mathematicians to invent Asimov's Psychohistory?

  91. Holy Grail by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    One items mentions the "Holy Grail" with a link... to a wiki page about a Monty Python movie :-)

  92. Nazi Germany by Tungbo · · Score: 1

    is on the minds of MANY people including the Manhattan project scientists. The fear is that they would get the bomb before any one else. It was a well founded fear.

  93. Not Bush - but GOP Free Market religion by Tungbo · · Score: 1

    GWB is only the latest proponent of deregulation and the view of 'government is the source of all problems' which you perhaps subscribe to.

    As for the Community Reinvestment Act, it was intended to reduce discrimination in bank lending. These was NO requirement to lend specific kinds of products to specific groups of people. In fact, prudent lending was required. See a nice historical summary in this congressional testimony:

    http://www.federalreserve.gov/newsevents/testimony/braunstein20080213a.htm

    Where GWB is most culpable is in the lax (intentional?) enforcement of existing regulations. Fundings for many regulatory agencies were cut. Anti-regulatory heads of departments were appointed, etc..

    Of course, I DO agrees that the prime drivers were private enterprises that loaded up too much risk without adequtae compensation.

  94. Re:Encouraging? It's stronger than that.... by Sobrique · · Score: 1
    OK.

    How about: Requiring someone to do something stupid, doesn't change the fact that it's stupid :).