Slashdot Mirror
UK Government Says More Spying Needed
An anonymous reader writes "Our wonderful government here in the UK has decided we're not being surveilled enough, and agreed to spend £12 billion on a programme to monitor every Briton's phone calls, e-mails, and internet usage. According to various sources, upwards of £1 billion has already been spent on the uber-database. Rationale? Terrorism, of course (no prizes for guessing).
Needless to say, not everyone is as happy as Larry over this: Michael Parker pointed out how us Brits are being 'stalked.' I'm just looking forward to when the data gets lost."
""Our wonderful government here in the UK has decided we're not being surveilled enough, and agreed to spend £12 billion on a programme to monitor every Briton's phone calls, e-mails, and internet usage."
With economies going the way they are. job security will be spying on each other.
Shai Schticks:"You don't make peace with friends, you make peace with enemies"
Damn, spying really is like violence. You know, like XML...
Fuck systemd. Fuck Redhat. Fuck Soylent, too. Wait, scratch the last one.
Thats almost 200 pounds for every man woman and child in the UK.
--
IP Address Finding
Putting cameras in toilets. We must keep an eye on every movement the terrorists make!
well at least it is public here in the US the govt. still says that the NSA is not spying at the "NSA controlled a secret internet spying room in an AT&T facility on Folsom Street in San Francisco" quote from http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2008/09/rights-group-su.html see: http://news.cnet.com/AT38T-sued-over-NSA-spy-program/2100-1028_3-6033501.html
"I don't pitch OpenSUSE Linux to my friends, i let Microsoft do it for me
... growing up in Alabama, I somehow always thought that maybe -- just maybe -- there was a better world out there. A cooler world, where people sounded cool, even if what they said was stupid. A place where it always rained, except for when you went to the park. A place where every band was destined to make a million, and the government had some sort of permanency about it. A place ... called ... London.
How badly did I want to live there?
Now ... not so much. Is it really like this? Cameras and eyes on you at all times?
Cor blimey; time to leave the bleedin' island, love.
Why do I M2 everything negatively?
Soon the l337 h4x0r d00d5 will have access to private details of every citizen of the UK.
After wasting £500bn recently (nearly the entire budget spend by government in one year) on bank bailouts that didn't work, it's amazing there is someone out there still stupid enough to loan the UK money for such crackpot schemes (speaking as a UK citizen). This is on top of the £20bn being wasted for the ID card system that will also crash and burn.
Still, it's government, and they don't care about other people's money, because it's not their wages or pensions that are effected.
With encrypted links being made ever easier, and the /. story recently of Google pushing an easier to use secure protocol, these tracking schemes will ultimately fail, at vast taxpayer expense.
Take Nobody's Word For It.
The UK had its own domestic terrorists for decades: the IRA. Yet the government did not feel that such pervasive monitoring was necessary. Now, largely because of something that happened 3000 miles away, the UK feels that such pervasive monitoring is necessary.
I say BS: every agency is wetting themselves hoping to get their hands on this data so that they can pursue their own petty agendas in the same way as RIPA powers have been used for trivial reasons.
Everyone has something to hide. Not necessarily illegal, but enough to coerce behavior.
The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
I have thought over it many times and, regarding myself, I have concluded: I would prefer to live freely and unobserved and someday die in a terrorist attack, than live in a "security" hell for all my life with cameras and RFIDs up my ass.
Put aside the fact that surveillance almost never stops a attack - only it helps find the burned-out guys.
And some semantics: How many of you walk in the street and feels ''terrorized''? On the other hand, how many of you feel terrorized by the fact that your every moment is on tape, and your personal data wanders in places you don't know?
From the outside perspective, it just looks like more and more money is being spent to gather more information (and infringe on the privacy of innocent citizens), but there have not been any accompanying reports that the new measures have been successfully used to catch more terrorists.
Why is nobody asking for evidence that it's working? Is there any evidence that it's working?
Safety is always a good thing, but at what point do you just stop getting out of bed in the morning because you think you might get hurt?
With SSL access to gmail and increasing use of SMTP-TLS providing encrypted MTA-to-MTA communications, email is more often only accessible in clear text on the server. Since Google is a US-based company, does it provide access to people's mailboxes to the UK government. I am assuming that warrants for every gmail user in the UK would not be granted, so we are talking about warrantless access.
Or perhaps the UK government thinks that everyone in the UK uses a UK-based email provider?
The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
With the speed they loose the data they do have to collect much more just to have some left in their own hands.
I pity the poor saps who have to sit and listen to our phone calls. I come close to running out the room screaming with people I've known for years - whiney, self-indulgent moaning. Bitching about the weather, the government, the television, cars, public transport, the quality of the beer and then of course I've got this terrible pain in the diodes all down my left hand side...
Since it is way behind schedule, they are just making up for lost time.
The Daily Express article manages to get the name of the director of GCHQ wrong. (David Pepper retired months ago. Even Wikipedia knows that.)
If such a trivially verifiable fact is wrong, what are we to make of all the less-easily verified claims in the article? Whatever happened to fact checking and journalistic integrity? I expect this kind of thing from Slashdot editors, but not from newspaper editors.
As this BBC news article illustrates, even direct monitoring of a known suspects phone(s) in the lead up to a terrorist event still does not prevent bad things happening:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7606834.stm
How is the ability to monitor and store information on a whole population going to help? Who is promising that they can improve the situation? Who has their hand in the governments pocket?
We are fast heading towards a total surveillance society, and that will only have negative consequences for *everyone*, including the so called elites.
Peace,
Andy.
Have you heard of Ed T.V.? You know the moview where Jim Carey played an orphan who was raised on a reality T.V. show????? Well this is King Ed T.V. with the entire Island of the U.K. as the star of a new reality T.V. show! Where you can watch and listen to the citizens of Britain's most private moments and conversations. It will be brilliant!
How else is the government supposed to raise all of the money to bail out the banks?????
And you're ALL Number 6.
Do you have the courage that Number 6 had? Will you fight back against Number 2?
Are you just "A number" or are you Free Men & Women?
The choice is yours.
Guaranteed! This comment 100% Anthrax free!
I am sure many reader are probably aware that assets of Iceland's bank were seized using anti-terrorism laws. Out of curiosity for people from the UK, is there even any reaction to this misuse of power ? With the economic going down, and surely crime rate will rise, I wouldn't trust the civil servants with powers like this.
The king decries it! Let it be!
When I find myself in times of trouble
Mother Mary comes to me
Speaking words of wisdom, let it be.
And in my hour of darkness
She is standing right in front of me
Speaking words of wisdom, let it be.
Let it be, let it be.
Let it be, let it be.
Whisper words of wisdom, let it be.
And when the broken hearted people
Living in the world agree,
There will be an answer, let it be.
For though they may be parted there is
Still a chance that they will see
There will be an answer, let it be.
Let it be, let it be.
Let it be, let it be.
Yeah, There will be an answer, let it be.
Let it be, let it be.
Let it be, let it be.
Whisper words of wisdom, let it be.
(instrumental break)
Let it be, let it be.
Let it be, yeah let it be.
Whisper words of wisdom, let it be.
And when the night is cloudy,
There is still a light that shines on me.
Shine until tomorrow, let it be.
I wake up to the sound of music
Mother Mary comes to me
Speaking words of wisdom, let it be.
Let it be, let it be.
Let it be, yeah let it be.
There will be and answer, let it be.
Let it be, let it be.
Let it be, yeah let it be.
Whisper words of wisdom, let it be.
Jury is in! Jihadist towelies are in trouble!
"The Last Enemy" (from BBC/WGBH) was broadcast early this year in Britain and is currently airing in the U.S. (episode 1 last week, episode 2 soon):
http://www.bbc.co.uk/drama/lastenemy/
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/lastenemy/index.html
It's the most vivid, tangible portrayal of a realistic society sliding into an Orwellian dystopia I've yet seen. The writing is sharp and maintains integrity without becoming too sensational or speculative. (It's even well-acted and smartly directed!) The main protagonist is a young, asocial mathematical physics prodigy who's become embroiled in the [fictional, near-future] British government's "Total Information Awareness" program, involving I.D. cards, 24/7 biometric monitoring, etc. (And he gets laid in the first episode. Seriously- did one of you guys write this thing??)
I think many readers around here would enjoy it on many levels: it's good TV for its own sake, it's thought-provoking, and topical. I'm not big on much in the "modern" genre of mystery/drama/thriller TV, but this one's worth it.
Now, for a bit of venting.
I'm glad to see that some Britons are cognizant enough of what is happening, where things are headed, and of the ramifications to those living in a modern society. It's nice to see it available to American audiences too as it's desperately needed in both places. But alas, it must compete with two major sports. It would be nice to see it slotted in prime time since the CSI/House/etc. crowd would enjoy it, but instead it will languish on "the dork channel" while the silverbacks spill beer over the meaningless and arbitrary ball/run/jump-centric antics of a few athletic specimens in lieu of this.
Now that that particular technological cat has got out of the barn door, how about the Google option - make all those CCTV's into publicly accessible web cams? Just think. With person recognition software tied in I could keep track of my wife and kids, check up on my gf, and in my spare time develop software to keep an eye on the local pedophiles and Muslim terrorists. Nah. I think I would prefer to trust Mr Brown (and whoever else can afford a private CCTV spy network) to do the right thing with all that private information.
... to be a lot more usefull for spam, blackmail, voyeur porn, AdSense, generally making consumerism easier and lots of other economic reasons, terror included.
The bond between the loved is beyond the damn govermnent. They will discovery some form of Lojban!
A friend living in London received yesterday by mail two parking violations and one moving violation fine, total cost over 200 (pounds, not dollars). But it appears the UK does not yet have enough surveillance... maybe she can look forward to receiving five per day, not a measly three. Jeremy Bentham would have been proud.
First of all - I'm not really in a position to jude whether more or less surveillance is a good thing; I can say it doesn't worry me a lot, just like the terrorist threat and other organised crime dont worry me too much. After all, in my daily life I don't feel that any of those things are in my way. The worst I have experienced is having to take off my shoes at Heathrow when I went through security, and I think that must have been worse for those around me. Frankly, I am surprised that they were willing to risk it.
It is so easy to act like a lemming and follow the crowd over the cliff's edge when somebody starts hollering about surveillance, because it evokes associations about cameras in your bed- and batrooms and people in dark suits following you around discreetly everywhere. This is of course not real - no government has that many resources, certainly not in the current economic climate. So take a small step back, take a deep breath and think critically about things. I am not going to argue for one position or another, but we should learn to be critical about what others want us to believe; it is not only the government that is out to use you, you know.
And while you are thinking, why not give some thought to how you would address the very real problems of international crime in the modern world? Thinking about those things and making up your mind is part of what some call your democratic duty; if you like living in a democracy, you should do your part and take it serious. otherwise you are no better than the ultra-Christian nutters that automatically agrees with anybody who hates gays, is against free abortion and quotes the Bible.
But back to the problems this sort of legislation is actually trying to address, however clumsily: Modern communication, and especially the internet makes it very easy to organise criminal activity of any kind, not just terrorism, but also drug crimes, economic crimes, people smuggling etc etc. How would you, working in the real world, solve these problems? Calling in Rambo or Superman is not going to work.
This shows the problems of pragmatism in government without principles, ethics, or other background. This government has always been pragmatic, partly because principles are also known insultingly as 'ideology'. Without an ethical framework it is easily seduced by the latest bright idea. Many or most of them are from its civil servants since the ministers generally don't have any original ideas of their own. Some of these ideas, such as deregulation of the financial system , can be seen to be stupid ideas now.
Now, a combination of its security people and IT people have persuaded it of another bright idea that will make everyone safe and secure. Unfortunately, failing an East Germany type revolution, this idea is likely to be more permanent than the deregulation of the financial system, but we will not be any safer than people in East Germany were under the Stasi.
I've escaped all this crap by moving to Germany. I never really like the way britain is becoming a surveillance state and moving here was such a breath of fresh air.
It wasn't that hard to find an IT job either, only one month of serious searching.
I'll never need one of these british ID cards, I'm not paying for that bloody database, and the DNA database here has people's names taken out of it if they aren't found guilty.
todo - The developer's equivalent of confession: "Forgive me Father, for I have sinned..."
In the last 5 years, there have been roughly 100 deaths related to Terrorism in the UK. The death rate under the IRA was slightly higher at about 50 per year. Let's take that higher figure and assume some 500 deaths over the next 10 years.
So, to fight this, we have a £1 billion database, a £12 billion surveillance program, and an ID cards scheme costing £18 billion. £31 billion for fighting those 500 deaths, or £62 million per death presumably prevented.
Perhaps if this £31 billion was spent on subsidising healthy food or teaching kids to cook properly and healthily, we could see a drop in the several thousand heart disease related deaths each year. If it was spent on road safety perhaps we could see a drop on the 3000 or so people killed on the roads each year.
Why are we worrying about terrorism?
The UK has a higher proportion of its population in relative low income than most other EU countries: of the 27 EU countries, only 5 have a higher rate than the UK. The proportion of people living in relative low income in the UK is twice that of the Netherlands and one-and-a-half times that of both France and Germany
Just get a back door, or a government job, and stalk victims with more ease and comfort.
As I'm not from the UK, I have to wonder what sort of stalking laws this would break.
The government of course being exempt from them.
This is not the funny you're looking for.
This demonstrates how the laws can and will be used.
It justifies those who believe that when laws are proposed you should think of how it could be abused, not just how it could be used.
"The Treasury released a document to Parliament yesterday showing it used sections of the Anti-terrorism, Crime and Security Act 2001 to take control of the bank's assets, saying in the statement the bank's collapse may harm the U.K. economy. "
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601102&sid=aXjIA5NzyM5c
We need more spies to justify paranoid people.
My ism, it's full of beliefs.
What about the privecy act ?????????????????? Wouldn't it be better to spend those £ 12 million to medical care, less fortunate and poor people ?????????
Anonymous, for obvious reasons, but I suspect that it won't be too far long before VPN services become the norm, and all internet traffic in and out of the UK becomes encrypted.
It's economic suicide to suppose they can legislate against the use of VPNs, given their widespread use in commerce and industry. Licensed, perhaps? Even then that'd be an immense organisation to set up (but then I suppose it's also what our government is good at!). Even if they did go this route, then innovators would simply encapsulate the VPN protocol into another, innocent stream to avoid detection.
There are already "For the Greater Good" services popping up in the light of this threat, such as Genesis VPN and they, and the many that came before and that are likely to follow, will become the norm.
And this is why we need Tor, i2p and Freenet.
Anonymity online, and not being tracked by people with ridiculous reasons, it's what they provide and what people need (especially now that China, the UK, the US and I thought Sweden as well, are tracking their own citizens).
Honestly, come and live in China and you'll be less spied upon than this.
I've never felt as free and anonymous as now, living in a not better identified middle-sized city in an anonymous province of China.
And then they say China is a repressive regime where you have no freedom.
:(){
Everyone has the government they deserve.
I'm just looking forward to when the data gets lost.
I wonder if it is technically possible to create a system that is able to ensure that data are deleted after a certain time. (e.g. application forms for companies, ISP data, surveillance recordings, ...) in a form that outsiders can confirm it. So that you can be sure there aren't any copies around either.
I totally agree with you. I don't want the Government to read the email I sent to my mum, or listen in on my phone call to work. I *sure* as hell don't want them to read the TXT MSGS I send to my mates. The Government is clearly lying about their intentions with this! They don't want to prevent another King's Cross, or 9/11-type attack through this latest move to enhanced ability to conduct surveillance. They just want to listen in on my phone calls!
I mean, there haven't been any big terrorist attacks lately, and it's not like the people who work for the government and make decisions like this have any sort of knowledge that I don't. The news media tells us everything we need to know, so I don't see where these nanny-state bureaucrats get off trying to convince us that there's a problem when the BBC isn't worried about it.
This whole plan is clearly designed to prepare the UK for some kind of neofascist information-based coup from within the government.
</parody>
Public Service Announcement: Although unlikely, your tinfoil hat may have shifted during the course of reading this post. Please ensure you readjust if necessary in order to continue to filter out reality.
hopefully this will go into slashdot unmangled. There are so many better uses for this money (make a big pile of fireworks and burn them all; deliberately burn Russian gas to create a better greenhouse effect; buying up toxic waste to make baby milk) that I can't really begin to think how to disagree with the parent.
=~ s,(.*),<sarcasm>$1</sarcasm>,g if any_point_you_wish();
I am not a number..... (slashdot user 1197859)
Smivs on the intertubes!
You do realise, as tech nerds, that it's your fault for developing the tech, right? None of this "guns don't kill people" nonsense - if you didn't have the gun then it'd be harder to kill, which means you're complicit, like it or not. The difference is that n citizens armed each with 1 handgun are a match for n government agents armed each with 100 handguns, so a handgun protects against tyranny; but a government's power does increase when its ownership of computing hardware increases 100-fold.
It's time for you to produce a software license which specifically prohibits use by security services home and abroad, and an ethical movement which prefers businesses that operate under such licenses.
And there will be at least one security worker reading this message. You, you are destroying freedom in the West and you know it. You are doing it, like Mielke before you, not for material wealth but for a sadistic desire to watch and control your fellow man. If you believe that your country "works", that you're doing the right thing to preserve the stuatus quo, it's only because you've been so sheltered from the less privileged parts of your country that you think everyone lives as you.
I've been to an expensive school, I've seen former schoolmates sucked into your world from the Old Boys' network. Generally you're the ones who have been to boarding school since 5, parental love replaced with dormitories and Masters drilling in a sense of privilege; the rest of you were social outcasts, not merely awkward but showing no real closeness and playing mischief at the expense of others. When my father, an emigrant from a fascist state, evaded recruitment efforts, he demonstrated more power through self-determination than could a thousand of you pathetic lapdogs.
I have no doubt that, in the short term, you're succeeding in your goals. But my greatest comfort comes in knowing that Mielke died, and so will you. In 70 years' time you will be dust, and you'll have as much power as Ozymandias - or me. The lowliest worker will be free to dance on your grave.
In other news:
It is with great sadness that the Royal Society for the Protection of Birds report that the wild pigeon population is being totally decimated, yet strangely there is no evidence of the cause of the presumed deaths.
Wikipedia reports that the hit rate on a page about an interesting implementation of IP has increased by several orders of magnitude.
The IETF report that the RFC server for rfc1149 and rfc2549 have been pom-dotted into oblivion by millions of Britons determined to preserve their privacy.
The price of quality eggs of pure racing pigeon breeding stock has suddenly punctured the thousand pound barrier for the first time in history, resulting in the share value of the British Consolidated Pigeon Breeding Co. increasing by 500% per day for the last week.
Market analysts are dumbfounded.
Meanwhile, OUR wonderful governments here can not secure the voting rights against the scammers...
Dead people voting? No computers raising alarms...
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
"An anonymous reader writes"
It's OK. Relax. We know who you are. Just sit still and wait for the knock on the door....
Unfortunately most people fail to see the connection between lists and any danger. The lists are being made to influence people who speaking out against the ones in power. But most people fail to see the danger of giving the power seekers ever more data to mine on everyone. Knowledge is power and the ones in power seek the use that knowledge to prevent people standing against their point of view.
With ever more detailed lists on peoples views, soon we end up with people fearful of what they say on the phone and in emails, for fear of their views could even just risk being taken out of context and seen in any way critical of the people in power. At that point, the ones in power are influencing people directly.
At that point, we live in a police state, where freedom is gone and replaced by fear of the ones in power. Problem is, we are getting there now, and from here on out, its simply a matter of consolidation of ever more detailed data mining.
The central reason why centuries ago votes were made in secret, was to prevent the ones in power, from seeking to influence the voters. Yet the power seekers are forever seeking to game the system to gain ever more information on peoples opinions. Now the ones in power are building automated systems to influence people.
Throughout history its been shown time and time again that the ones in power become ever more corrupt over time without any feedback on how they are behaving. Its been show so many times through history.
Most people don't realise the game people in power are playing. People in power are not so interested in individuals. The ones in power are interested in adding everyone to different lists so they can then control and profiling groups of people, so they can then use divide and conquer tactics, to break groups of people up. The goal is that the fragmented groups cannot then stand and oppose the point of view of the ones in power. That is why they data mine.
The lessons of history have not been learned by enough people. Looks like the world is seeking to repeat the mistakes of the past. Freedom and democracy are constantly undermined by a minority of people in power for their own gain. Its just a matter of time and how far we are going to let them all game the system to push the excesses ever more unfairly in their favour. After all, its not as if they are robbing hundreds of billions of tax payers money to keep their rich lifestyles while millions risk loosing everything.
Anyway, if the millions of people can't buy bread, then let them eat cake. ... My point is, the names in history change and the names of their ideologies change. But what remains is basic human psychology and that doesn't change. The lack of empathy of the ones in power over their powerless minions never changes. For all their words, its only their actions which count and millions now face loosing their jobs and millions are treated unfairly by the ones in power.
In such a world, its no surprise that the ones in power would want to watch their minions very closely. After all, people could start to complain its getting all to unfair. But we cannot have that. We need ever more laws to protect the ones in power and ever more laws to keep the minions down and away from power.
The world will never change until everyone worldwide realises that people who constantly seek power over others have a recognisable cluster B personality disorder. All cluster B personality disorders are ultimately driven by fear. And the ones with the disorder constantly seek to control that fear and control everyone around them based on their fear. (There are multiple fears, two examples are lack of attention and the other is fear of lack of power. The attention seekers want more attention (they were deprived of parental attention as children. The ones who want power seek to prevent anyone ever having power over them again, the way they were treated unfairly as children)... The very nature of seeking power over others, means that person seeks to push other
You have to spend tons of money on spying on those who will get pissed off about the tons of money that is being spent on spying, instead of doing far more productive things with the money that those who are being spyed on, would benefit by.
As an example of what people want vs. the amount of money being spend to support pseudo defense against terrorism. Money that clearly should instead be being used to remove the reasons for any terrorist to exist or have the ability to gain support....
It is interesting that the current economic ballout of $700 billion is ...... well see the chart at the above link to the then military budget. And note the cost of eradicating small pox from the world, and recall Bush publicly using small pox as a terrorist possibility....
And the terrorist of 9/11..... a little investigation very strongly points to world stock market manipulation via nickel and dime draining of south east Asia as the main motivating and force behind the terrorism of 9/11. Even Ted Turner publicly said 9/11 was an act of desperation.
Would you pay for a service that was not working for your benefit? I suspect the answer is NO.
But you are paying taxes for a service that is not working for your benefit. Why? Because you are being threatened, terrorized to do so.
Boston Tea Party is history.... we all need an organized "stop paying for a service that are being used against us" effort.
Its very clear that there is an unhealthy power and money addiction being backed by threat from the government controlled military and police.
The amount of money being spent today as "protection money" is most certainly criminal in comparison to what it can be better spent on to make this world a lot safer via. making it a better world to live in for everyone. (except for the power, money and war mongers which are less than 1% of the over 6 billion human residents of this planet...)
A peaceful and effective effort to stop paying for a service that is so clearly and obviously not working. Any suggestions?
A suggestion:
Choice. The Choice to chose from and honest and genuine list of what is needed and wanted by the people, as to what to spend tax payer money on.
You pay Taxes, you get to Chose what it is spent on.
Simple, peaceful, effective. And who would complain without exposing themselves, against such a direction?
Its clear that by genuinely removing problems you can remove the expenditures of treating the symptoms of the problems. The saving then used to address and resolve the next problem, thereby increasing the ongoing overall savings... etc... to the point of then using the ongoing savings from solving real problems to then improve overall quality fo life of the planets residents.
Choice.... Where is the CHOICE being honesty and genuinely provided to the people for what their Taxes are being used for?
Where is it?
They have James Bond. Honestly. What other spying could you need?
I'm a Brit, I love England, and until recently I never even entertained moving abroad.
Enough is enough. I'm leaving.
However, where I work the new building was designed and OK'd. The contracted parties are EXTREMELY unhappy because no changes were made.
They were expecting a change which they could charge for. The change then shows up other changes "needed" and they can be charged.
As it was, the company didn't do more than break even no the deal.
Contractors LOVE changes. Charging for them is the continuing stream.
The authorities (both government and corporate, if there is really a difference) now has such a technological ability to watch us and to manipulate the opinions of at least the weakest 80=90% of us, there could very well be no more mass uprisings, ever.
Too many people are all about themselves, their idiotic quest for acquisition and a pitiful concept of personal identity sold to them and a million other fools by professional marketers.
If you ever suggested the idea of violent revolution to one of the sheeple, and they agreed to it, they would simply say 'ok, you go first'.
Its a fairly hopeless situation right now.
If we can put a man on the moon, why can't we shoot people for Apollo-related non-sequiturs?
You know how much Taxes you Pay to the government.
In the US you file an Annual Tax return.
Include in that return a Form stating what your taxes are to be spent on, and sign it.
Spread the word, this is to do. Tell them what you want them to spend your Tax money on, for they obviously do NOT know.
Other countries, I do not know your tax collection process , but if you have a record of the taxes you pay and who collects the taxes, start with them in communicating what your taxes are to be used for.
Do not bother or be concerned with what you don't know as there are other tax payers who know what you don't and can chose/communicate what their taxes are to be spent on.
How well will this effort be listened to?
For the US, its everyday people who work at the IRS and the word will spread uphill and people have motive to make it happen.....with enough people stating their choice of what their taxes are to be spent on, those who see it will become more and more motivated to move it up hill, etc...
If you do not state what you want your taxes to be used for, then it can certainly be used for whatever someone else decides to spend your tax money on.
Maybe these others would spend it on what you want, but they need to know. I believe some of them are called politicians. In the US, current presidential election candidates present a fixed choice of which many don't like either.....however, this isn't about who are you going to vote for, but who ever the winner is, what you want them to do with your tax money.
Do you want them to spend it on their spying on you?
Who in this current hell would say yes to that question?
Besides an exhibitionist.
Oh wait. British do not have militias or guns. I guess you are powerless to change anything. Now you know exactly why our american forefathers had the foresight to let us keep our guns. Modern day britain is so 1984 that it is scary considering that the US is only a half-step behind. Where is Guy Fawkes when you need him?
zosxavius photography
Post you're mid term-paper hear and wheel correct it. Once you get the slashdot affect working four you, you are guaranteed to get an A!! I can find any mistakes in your paper, sew this is a good deal.
I do. for the reason you state. In America we are already under surveillance 99% of the time. Sometimes its commercial ( like that camera on on EVERY building ) or government ( the stop light camera ). And that doesn't even begin to cover 'data' surveillance that is done with credit card purchases which is even more invasive..
Now, that said i don't think we should stick our heads in the sand as there ARE really people out there destined to kill us. But that reaction needs to be rational. And sticking cameras on innocent people is not rational.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Civilization is the progress toward a society of privacy. The savage's whole existence is public, ruled by the laws of his tribe. Civilization is the process of setting man free from men.
-Ayn Rand
Support the FairTax
After all.... Information wants to be free.
Right?
Be careful what you wish for.
I agree with the brits on their move for more spying. Certainly, it would be a lot more effective if a ministry were created just to make sure people are who they claim to be, thus identifying possible terrorist. I would call it the "Ministry of Truth".
Also, in order to control terrorism even more,the world could follow EU steps and unify its economies, creating three large economic groups: eurasia, estasia and oceania.
I don't think I can take seriously the opinions of anybody so badly-educated that they think "surveilled" is a word.
I piss off bigots.
I strongly suspect that Islamic terrorism has very little to do with the real reason for the increasingly authoritarian state. I think most people who actually form their own opinions already know this. I am also very aware that large power structures (governmental or otherwise) tend to seek to extend and entrench their power at the expense of individual liberty, this is a process that has been going on since the development of agriculture ~20k years ago.
It seems that this process has accelerated (in my native UK at least) since the 80s. If you had told the average man-in-the-street in 1980 that in 20 years there would be 'security' cameras watching you pretty much everywhere you go, that you could be held indefinitely without trial or charge, and all the other stuff we have now, I doubt he would believe you. And yet here we are.
It may be that there is more to this than the usual extension of power. Perhaps what we are seeing is a preparation for the eventual effects of climate change, although the end of the cold war certainly had a part to play. Things like famine and natural disasters weaken central authority, people are less likely to do what they are told when the established order cannot provide them with the necessities of life. By laying the foundations of a totalitarian police state now, the powers will have become accepted as just the way it is by the majority by the time the government needs to use them to quell food riots or demonstrations against forced resettlement. It seems that many have no quarrel with such restrictive legislation already, even here on /. (which generally supports Freedom) there are those that speak up in favour of the curtailment of our liberty. The current world economic situation may well be part of this process, it certainly seems as if it has been engineered, but I'll save that rant for another day :)
Please note that I'm not saying that this is the reason, just a hypothesis.
The Super Secret Spy Rooms in SF, NYC and other cities in the US are so that the NSA and other covert agencies can intercept transmissions for their counterparts in other countries, such as the UK so that there are no domestic spying laws being broken.
As a Quid Pro Quo, the counterpart spook agencies overseas are doing the spying here in the USA to skirt the same domestic spying laws.
Any incriminating data is passed along to the proper intelligence authorities within the country being monitored.
We're all having our communications intercepted and scrubbed by the spooks. It's just not probably the spooks you think.
FYI: My tinfoil hat is on nice and snug, thank you.
These guys just out do hitler.
Now will us the populace see al the govt emails and memos and internal docs? Can we have cameras inside the govt peoples homes like bigbrother?
This isnt about terrorism, this is about stopping any future revolutions.
But all govts die, since revolutions reach the core.
Just be warned and be careful once the govt outlaw gold trading, then move the fuck out.
Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
Just make a tin foil inline version.
Might be a little hot but will work.
Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
"Why are we worrying about terrorism?"
Well as already been illustrated. Terrorism is about more than just people death. Property damage counts too. You have to remember to add that to your balance sheet.
There will be no curiosity, no enjoyment of the process of life. All competing pleasures will be destroyed. But always, do not forget this, Winston, always there will be the intoxication of power, constantly increasing and constantly growing subtler. Always, at every moment, there will be the thrill of victory, the sensation of trampling on an enemy who is helpless. If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face ⦠for ever.
My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my Father! Prepare to die!
Well, I for one, don't have anything against the principal of it, mainly because I feel that the whole point of government is to know what's going on. My problem is that either the government, their "civil servants" and/or contractors seem to be incompetent. If we had a formal, written constitution, that gave "us" the rights that we should actually have in the 21st century, i.e. privacy, ownership of personal data - and who is/should be allowed access to it as of right and many many more things, then it would be fine - especially if there was a few draconian punishments for unauthorised access, theft of, loss of, etc. I'm not saying public whipping, while connected to electrically charged nipple/genital clamps, but a minimum of 3 years in clink, with no parole, might encourage those with access to such data to be more careful with it (though the prospect of public embarrassment with "electric cattle prods" does have a certain appeal ;D).
I mean, bloody hell, they don't even encrypt as a matter of course, let alone, fully account for access and who holds what hardware (thinking usb "thumb" drives etc here).
Of course, if it's a case of corporate incompetence and/or mis-management, then it should be the line manager responsible and the director(s) of the company who are imprisoned.
If they face such harsh results, then they're gonna go out of their way to protect that data. Especially if they knew that transgression of the legislation will remove any future livelihood in the business world.
I mean, it's not just this rubbish about needing a huge comm's database, but all the other shite they're coming out with. ID cards, 42 days detention, etc. I mean, is all this really necessary ? or is it just that governments and their support organisations are just too bloody slow when adapting to the speed of change in the digital world ?
Ho hum!
The Super Secret Spy Rooms in SF, NYC and other cities in the US are so that the NSA and other covert agencies can intercept transmissions for their counterparts in other countries, such as the UK so that there are no domestic spying laws being broken.
As a Quid Pro Quo, the counterpart spook agencies overseas are doing the spying here in the USA to skirt the same domestic spying laws.
Any incriminating data is passed along to the proper intelligence authorities within the country being monitored.
We're all having our communications intercepted and scrubbed by the spooks. It's just not probably the spooks you think.
FYI: My tinfoil hat is on nice and snug, thank you.
You say all of this as if you have any actual evidence to support your claim. You don't.
In 2001 more people in the US were killed by food poisoning than terrorist attacks.
Maybe we should be focusing on food standards? or heart disease...