Slashdot Mirror
Indian Moon Mission Launched
hackerdownunder writes "India's maiden lunar mission (Chandrayaan-1) got off to a flying start today. Describing the launch as 'perfect and precise,' the chairman of the Indian Space Research Organization (ISRO), G Madhavan Nair, said that it would be 14 days before the satellite would enter into lunar orbit.
Chandrayaan carries eleven payloads: five designed and developed in India, three from the European Space Agency, one from Bulgaria and two from NASA."
The Third World is exploring space, developing scientists and engineers, and developing their economies.
Here in the US, we're developing our military, discouraging the study of science and engineering, discouraging all rational thought (God did it!), spending resources on some nebulous terrorist threat the will come some day (or so we're told), and developing industries based on chance and moving money around.
I wonder which society has better long term prospects for its people, economy, and Government?
At around Rs. 400 Crore / USD 80 Million, it must be the cheapest unmanned moon mission and.... 1st post
"This is Chandrayaan-1 we have a problem."
"You have reached mission control. Your call is very important to us. Please hold and the next available representative will be with you shortly."
"This is Chandrayaan-1 we are losing thrust and are off course."
"Remember, mission control is here for you. Have you heard about our latest service pack upgrades and special licensing agreements? Press one now if you'd like to hear more. If not, continue holding and your call will be answered in the order recieved. Thank you for calling mission control!"
About 18.2 minutes later, ISRO Chairman G Madhavan Nair declared the launch successful which sent over a 1000 space scientists into a bout of jubilation. ( Watch )
Yeah that party sounds like it would be 'off the hook'!
www.purevolume.com/martyd
I can envisage the giant interplanetary call centre they're planning to build now. Something like this, but in space.
"Please to hold!"
Our current knowledge of moon is infinitely superior than the knowledge of our own ocean. They say, Grass is always greener on the other side or may be it is the quest to build more powerful missiles in the guise of moon missions. Not blaming India, six others did that too.
... India is finally catching up to the rest of the world.
Its pretty great to see other countries add something to the spacey happenings on our rock.
The US exports its financial crisis to other countries.
I've been there too and it is real poverty, not the "I don't have a flat screen TV" poverty that we have in the united states
I am extremely happy that space missions are gaining importance on the world stage, as I see living offworld as the key to human survival in the long run.
Part of me wonders if the trend in outsourcing provided the economic base and not too small a technological leg up that India needed to succeed. I realize they have an amazing (and selective) university system that makes many of ours silly by comparison, but I wonder if our "American Spirit" had no small part in enabling this. I wonder if what we have to offer the world has more to do with that spirit than any other tangible asset.
This then would give us some clues to our role in the world as our "empire" fades during this next century. We are to become the skunkworks for the world.
meh
A sad truth but the United States of America is now reaching for mars while millions in the nation are still dying from hunger and live in seriously abject poverty. And I mean real poverty.
But also take into account that the cost of the mission is a really tiny fraction of what the Indian Government spends on Poverty Alleviation programs. Also, ISRO's programs have also had an enormous role to play in some of these objectives, specially by providing weather forecasting and communication facilities. In other words, any criticism of India's space program on the basis of its other economic or social problems does not seem to hold water.
If it makes you that sad, why don't you change your comfortable western lifestyle and feed a few hungry people. If you're not prepared to do that, it doesn't make you sad, you don't give a damn. Then stop judging others. You have no idea how stupid you look sitting behind your desk shouting 'Oh look at all those hungry people, someone feed them'.
A sad truth but India is now reaching for the moon while millions in the nation (just recently been there) are still dying from hunger and live in seriously abject poverty. And I mean real poverty.
Long term this is a money maker for India; there's a huge market for commercial satellite launches and other payloads; by going to the Moon India is showing that they're serious contenders in that market "We've been to the Moon, getting your satellite into orbit is easy compared to that. It'll cost you $xx million that's $x million cheaper than NASA or ESA".
If I have nothing to hide, you have no reason to search me
So? What are you trying to say? That India should wait until their problems are all solved? And for the rest of the world to move on?
And did you know that India is now a serious emerging player in the satellite launch market? If money is all you understand, please be informed that they will MAKE more money than they have spent on this mission. The reputation that the Indian Space Research Organization will gain from this will get them more launch orders. And that means more money.
And don't forget the technological spinoffs that will help make them better. And they have said they will share this knowledge with other industries.
I was watching the launch today, and they interviewed school kids about what they thought, and you know what? There's a whole horde of young people that have been inspired to pursue careers in space science, just because of this. The intangible benefits are far too many to enumerate here.
Grow up, man.
I am just a bit disappointed they chose to do a moon mission. US landed on the moon in 1969. Choosing something different, even a Mars mission or something feasible but on the same scale, even if it took another 5-10 yrs would probably be better from the morale/enthusiasm perspective of the country since it wouldn't be outdated.
Life is about being a Phoenix!
Obama is a messiah? I thought he just liked to dress like that.
I hate printers.
India's economy has turned around due to technology outsourcing to India by the rest of the world. This outsourcing started happening when Indians began showing the outside world that Indians aren't just the hungry clamouring mobs always shown on TV. As the world realized this, they began to see value in sending work to India. By accomplishing things like Chandrayaan, or building the Tata Nano, etc, Indians demonstrate to the world their talents and abilities, which increases the world's willingness to trade and work with India, creating jobs and economic growth in the country. Some Indians commenting here are unfortunately the backward navel-gazing types, who will never understand the basis for economic growth and alleviation of poverty. They still think in the most primitive backward terms about how to bring development, prosperity and relief to the masses. The lost opportunities and economic stagnation of the past 50 years under the social welfare state show how such narrow mindsets can wreak havoc on a country. The answer lies in Indians showing each other and the world how to be achievers, instead of just beggars forever clamouring with their palms outstretched.
Then how are you going to help those poor people? Give them free money and food so they'll continue to do nothing and further your poverty problem?
How about actually setting up a sensible education system, then a sensible industrial sector, and then a sensible R&D sector for future industries; so that people can be productive and build wealth for your country?
Doesn't that sound a lot like what India is trying to do?
7-11 is already the biggest chain on this planet, will i really be able to get a big gulp when i visit the moon the first time?
If their rocket engineering is anything like their software engineering, they will probably blow themselves up or end up in Nevada and think it's the moon.
A country like Australia works because the population is tiny and the extraction of resources is large, but even so they have developed a high tech industry. Germany has most of its industrial base far up the food chain, Switzerland even more so. Mexico makes cars, cars are made in the UK regions, but the UK industrial heartland is more interested in the R&D around Formula 1 racing because the value added is better. The US has tried to take the process a stage further with banking and intellectual property, which requires few reources but has a high value added; unfortunately as we are seeing this value added, because it has so little real asset behind it, is extremely vulnerable to fashion and obsolescence.
The Indians know all of this. The faster they can move their industry up the chain, the more they can spend on getting the peasants past a 500BCE living standard.
From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
Have the Chinese put a flag on the moon till now, or is India beating them to it?
So India should stop all technological advances until poverty is rooted out?
*cough* Appalachia in 1969 *cough*
the major advances in civilization are processes which all but wreck the societies in which they occur - A.N. White
First Quickie Mart on the moon!!!
Thank you...come again....
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
To start the fire of the moonlanding conspiracy flame war (that will inevitably start somewhere in this thread), here goes -
The two NASA instruments are designed to layover images and data readings where the landers and equipment are or are thought to be. Whether through some fancy electronic trickery/photoshop, or they built a scale model that hangs in front of the lenses at adjustable distances, or some other kooky theory. [sidebar] Perhaps the ISRO could snap a few photos of the sites in question to prove, yes or no, that we've been there and end this conspiracy.[/sidebar]
The actual projects by NASA are the Moon Mineralogy Mapper (M^3), here, and the Mini Synthetic Aperture Radar (Mini-SAR), here.
Congratulations to the ISRO! This really is a great achievement. Plus, my ulterior motive being that I hope to see a Space Race reignited.
"The quality of life is determined by its activites."--Aristotle
but really it just gets old to hear this same tired line. It also is very easy to exaggerate issues so they appear as if everyone who could be bad is being bad but that is far from the truth. The last part about developing industries on the chance of making money is directly the fault of the Congress preventing oversight into Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac. Hell they are resisting now investigations into those two companies and only those two until AFTER the election - why is that?
As for the rational thought comment, ever wonder why it gets so highlighted in papers when it occurs? BECAUSE IT IS SO RARE. If it were common then the papers and such would rate it to page three if that. The fact is that the most likely interference into education (read public schools and college) comes from religions claiming to be discriminated against because school falls on the wrong day, pork is served, or cheer leaders show some leg.
The only thing discouraging science and engineering in the US is the public school system because its too hard and therefor not fair. We had an interview in the local paper recently where they talked about reducing the math test requirements because it wasn't "fair". Some have suggested the rigorous testing was "racist". How do you expect ANY education system to operate under the fear of being branded racist? Then top it off with the fact that some tenured teachers aren't worth squat but are untouchable means if our kid gets a good math teacher we chalk it up to luck.
The US is exploring space, we are just far past the mundane stuff. Mundane meaning landing on things we can see with the naked eye. We have put probes on planets other countries aren't even considering. Would that be a waste in your book because no one else is doing it? When it comes to the military, well our science and space exploration go hand in hand with technical innovations. Please don't tell me you do understand that this launch mechanism India developed can be easily adapted to deliver payloads anywhere on Earth as well. Its not like they have great relations with Pakistan and I do believe if we were not buying off both there have been some really rotten incidents already.
Frankly I am quite fine with the terrorist threat remaining nebulous, it was all too real a few years back.
Which society is better long term, the US is thank you. For every failing I can attribute to the US I can usually find them elsewhere as well. It just comes down to who is trying to score the points as to when its important or not.
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
Define "poverty" and "hunger," please, so we know which definitions you're working with.
google is your friend search usa hunger or usa poverty
Look who's talking. There are poor people, not bankrupt people living off their plastic cards, neither war mongering governments with zero or near zero knowledge economists.
"And I mean real poverty."
No, seriously, with the exception of maybe a few exceptional areas, Americans in poverty do not face anywhere near the poverty that many Indians face.
If people in India become rich how will all the NGOs and Church groups who raise money based on sad looking photographs survive? The typical business model is for every 10 dollars raised spend a dollar on some unproductive charity in India and pocket the other 9 dollars and lead a lifestyle even most Americans cant dream of. The whole third world charity industry probably employs more people in the US than heavy manufacturing. If India becomes non-poor all these average Joe Six packs would be worrying about their next meal and not their health insurance.
**Life is too short to be serious**
Just about all of those studies are rather vague in their definitions, and appear to stretch some things. Here's the problem - a VAST majority of people in this country eat enough, have jobs, and can be educated. Period. There's an EASY formula to follow - graduate high school, don't get pregnant before marriage, and hold a job for two years. You WON'T be poor and you WON'T go hungry. This is a social/motivation/parenting problem, NOT a money problem in America.
Considering that the best of India's talents from IITs and likes of it are in the US working for the Microsofts, Googles and NASAs, this is indeed a big achievement. This will be a motivation for atleast a few of them to go back and work in the development of their own country.
This is one huge leap forward for India!
...the United States is in decline, not unlike the Roman Empire.
I, for one, welcome our new, enlightened, "3rd-world", "barbarian" overlords.
in fact, that's one of the aims of ISRO - building a sound ecosystem around space research - which has a good potential for science students who are interested in specialised science. right about now everyone's heading into call centers, BPO units, medical transcription units, code monkey outfits, and some real software work. so many intellectuals and good scientists are absorbed from mainstream science into sweat shops which pay very well by indian standards , and something which typical scientific organisations can't pay.
how then do you attract scientists who need a decent standard of living, a decent salary, and some real exciting work... like space research and rocket science.
India has a Moon?
not US or UK related poverty (no flat screen, not enough Ketchup)
Yeah, all them food kitchens in the US, serving up flat screens and ketchup.
I live in Appalachia now and it's still only the innovative or at least motivated people who get ahead. The majority in my area are lazy and leech off the system.
cb_is_cool knows where his towel is.
We'll be able to get slurpees on the moon.
India's space program is different from those in US and other "developed" countries. India has always focused on the practical uses of space science. Communication, weather forecasts, delivering payloads etc. (instead of sending probes to pluto)
Elsewhere "space programs came as spinoffs of military programs, so the things the space program was expected to deliver were things that could be used in defense," says S.K. Das, a former ISRO official.
To people complaining about India trying to go to the moon when there is a lot of poverty around:
http://www.gilscottheron.com/lywhitey.html
A rat done bit my sister Nell.
(with Whitey on the moon)
Her face and arms began to swell.
(and Whitey's on the moon)
I can't pay no doctor bill.
(but Whitey's on the moon)
Ten years from now I'll be payin' still.
(while Whitey's on the moon)
The man jus' upped my rent las' night.
('cause Whitey's on the moon)
No hot water, no toilets, no lights.
(but Whitey's on the moon)
Mod the parent up someone.
I'd like to add the 'tangible' benefits (as in moolah) are being seen already and that the publicity, derided as it in some quarters, will only add to more 'customers' and more 'business'.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7199736.stm
bangerereshi marahiri marirniyaaaaaaaaa huuuu * hands and arms swirling *
they dance for everything in bollywood. i cant imagine how much dancing is going to go into the forthcoming sci-fi films they are gonna make.
Read radical news here
you have failed to create social welfare state. europe has succeeded.
you sound like a holistic economist, even a neocon republican. those days are at an end.
this recent crisis have shown us how dangerous unwatched, ungoverned, unregulated capitalism can be. entire world economy brought down by a handful of rogue megacorporations juggling funds in united states.
that wont happen again.
Read radical news here
Congratulations to India.
But as an outside observer, a moonshot seems like a 3-pointer while you are being blown out 65-22 (update 65-25) in a basketball game.
One step at a time for sure, but India seems to lag in many key areas.
The PSLV-XL itself costs only 80 crore rupee (800 million rupees) or less than 20 million USD
In the US we are going the other direction. We are becoming socialist, buying banks and if OBAMA gets elected, may be giving out even more -- remember, tax the rich and give to the poor!
Going there is so 20th century. Unless they blow it up, it's !news.
Nasa missions took three days. But life support was important.
The slowest moon mission was an ESA moon mission that took 14 months to reach the moon via ion-drive. It cost very little in fuel.
Then how are you going to help those poor people? Give them free money and food so they'll continue to do nothing and further your poverty problem?
Please make sure you feed them while teaching them to feed themselves.
Disconnect your television. Do your own research. Draw your own conclusions. They're probably lying. Don't be a sheep.
...while millions in the nation are still dying from hunger
Millions? Really? Show us one article or citation on this. Just one.
Launch video 1/4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZbGXrxR4U4 2/4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_S3GeL8AjEQ 3/4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEg-uWjPDFI 4/4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pT9SpPJvHck
The Moon to India: "Thank you! Please Come Again!"
"Poverty is still there, 80% of the population live on 20 rupees (25p) a day, according to a survey, but a large well off group has also emerged. Some 250 million are reckoned to be very well off, many of them very rich." http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/6946800.stm
Slashdot = Sarcasm
India showcased its low-cost space technology. Project cost only $79 million, considerably less than the Chinese and Japanese probes. Now world can outsource space projects to India. Another outsourcing industry started :)
This project also shows India's partnership with 14 other countries and sharing data and technology together.
Or else India would have never got Independence from British.
Govt must implement Reservations in Temples, Judiciary and in Defense services.
A) 50% of Temple/Judges/Defense Staff must be from OBC communities.
B) 35% Temple/Judges/Defense Staff must be from Dalits and Tribals.
C) Remaining Temple/Judges/Defense Staff must be from other castes.
Otherwise India will disintegrate into 3000+ separate Kingdoms.
"Give them free money and food so they'll continue to do nothing and further your poverty problem?"
of jeez, not that Republican myth again.
Most people on welfare are either currently working, or will be working again.
Very, very few 'live' on welfare.
Yes, we need to improve are education, etc.. however that would involve paying more taxes *SHOCKGASP*
Why peple think they can cut taxes and not cut services is beyond me.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
it first.
1.000.000 people unable to pay for their mortgages nets to a loss around $300 bn, if the houses were bought from $600 k by the bank and their values now $300 k.
thats only 1/3 of the cash us had prepared for its banks, its also around 1/10 of the cash that europe has provided.
you see, the funds provided had already covered approx 20 times that loss, if you count in what japan, korea and other nations have readied.
you should have understood by now that this is nothing related to unpaid mortgages or poor people, or fannie mae freddie mac. this is the bullshit that republican bastards are feeding you to get off the hook.
the real problem is this :
banks are allowed to lend approx 10 times the total assets they have. because its logical - money turns slow, so it doesnt create a problem. its all valid liquidity wise. this ratio is a healthy ratio and its checked by government regulation.
but, due to the lawless environment republicans and holistic economists have created by yelping 'hands off business' 'government out' 'government bad for economy, youll cost jobs to people', government regulation was totally hampered in that sector since reagan era.
then what happened ? in this unregulated environment, some bastards realized this ; if they show those mortgages as assets, and then create DERIVATIVE assets over them (called hedge funds in general because they accept all kinds of 'assets'), they can sell/trade those assets !!!
and they proceeded to do that. they created assets linked to those mortgage assets, then started trading them. attracted investors. those funds have inflated in value, disproportionately. imagine the funds value becoming $ 20 trillion instead of the mortgage value of $ 200 bn. this is round one.
in round two, they went further. they showed those DERIVATIVES as assets. meaning, despite they had $200 bn worth of mortgage assets, they now had $20 trillion worth of hedge funds/investments tied to those mortgages !! and they started lending by showing their total assets as $20 trillion plus $200 bn !!! see the point ? they started lending money THEY DONT HAVE !
see the issue now ?!
someone should have stepped in, checked their books and said 'hey, you dont have that much assets. what you are showing me as assets are actually derivative papers tied to OTHER assets. these are NOT real, and they are OVERvalued !!' and stopped them in their tracks.
but noone did. because a lot of poodles were yelping 'hands off economy !!'. so it went like this, those banks lent to countries, governments, megacorporations, traded those investment funds SO widely around the world that every bank in the world got infested by those funds.
then it was discovered. and today we are here.
Read radical news here
the taxes they dont pay for social welfare state, they pay while getting stabbed in the butt and giving away their wallet. or paying for the increased police & security expenses.
what a stupidity !! instead of paying out taxes in at the start and totally reducing crime, they rather not pay it and then pay it in the forms of security expenses and risks, AND have also increased crime rate as a free gift in the package !
Read radical news here
Now there's a second annoying hover-pop-up advertiser, Contentlink, used by Times of India (and I'm sure many others).
At least Contentlink lets you disable their popups. Click on the (?) and look near the bottom of the page for the link to disable them.
launch successful which sent over a 1000 space scientists
All India's 1000 space scientists sent to space together! Space exploration the India way, baby! And don't come back until you work it out pals!
Doesn't that sound a lot like what India is trying to do?
Also, it gives the ISRO sufficient prominence that a greater fraction of fresh graduates would consider a career there.
Wow! You are merely gullible but whoever started this rumor is some truly sick and evil sociopath. I suggest paying attention a little more so such things like Enron, the housing bubble and the last five years do not slip past unnoticed.
The whole world has been nervously watching this develop for years. I suggest reading something from outside of the USA for a view that is less skewed by PR money.
I agree as far as temples and defense staff are concerned, and I believe that the Temple act already allows for some of this. Not so sure about Judges. The judiciary should be selected strictly on the basis of merit, not on ethnic affiliations. Else we will have judges who are biased in favor of their communities.
Otherwise India will disintegrate into 3000+ separate Kingdoms.
That danger is far more likely to be realized by the China-backed Maoists and Pakistan-backed Islamic militants than by legislative wrongdoings.
l'Homme n'est Rien l'Oeuvre Tout: Gustave Flaubert to George Sand
I can ask the same question
what are you doing for the US recent homeless during this financial crisis?
i can ask
how about to develop sensible financial sector which don't need any bailout(LOL)?
Also i heard that American is not doing good in science and maths nowadays?
one more thing, is US stop spending on NASA despite of this financial crisis and homeless people army(AGAIN LOL)??
Friend, its easy to blame someone else, why you don't look at your self??
This shows how ignorant you are...go and do some research before posting. Indian Goverment school provides free lunch to their students. So, India does take care that they feed people while teaching them to feed themselves.
Guys
Dont forget India is feeding the poor by their space missions. They now take contracts to put satellites in place for other countries, and make money off it. Most of the research is based on that money. And someday, there will be profits from there that will feed the poor!
Does that make you happy?
there is no border for crime. no confines either. eventually as the situation deteriorates enterprising criminals will reach towards your neighborhood and places you go. then youll get either kidnapped for ransom or stabbed in the butt. that will be the point you feel the invisible hand of the free market.
Read radical news here
dont label this behaviour with elaborate names like libertarian, conservative etc and legalize the behaviour in some way.
what he is basically saying that 'dont take my money, let the society crash down for all i care'.
this is plain out, basic self centeredness and greed, accompanied by a high measure of ignorance and lack of understanding. also, ingratefulness.
he makes use of all the benefits being a society brings, but he doesnt want to spare any of his resources to make sure that society keeps functioning, so he can enjoy those benefits.
this is stupid, ignorant, self centered all at the same time. its like shooting yourself in the foot despite you are so wanting to go jogging.
Read radical news here
India, like China, is advancing on the backs of their poorest citizens. MILLIONS of people living in the most vile and disgusting conditions, neglected by a society that encourages ABUSE of your fellow man. These people have no morals or values, they have no sense of right and wrong. The ONLY way for a civilization to truly advance and progress is if they embrace the same values that have been so successful in the western world.. RESPECT for your fellow man, Education for your children, FREEDOM to persue a better life, LAWS that declare equality on the most basic human levels, COMMUNITIES that lift up and support all the diversities within them.
THEN they can worry about gallivanting around the solar system on their curry propelled rockets.
Rajiv Gandhi was the visionary who decided that India should invest in IT education http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rajiv_Gandhi
Slashdot = Sarcasm