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Chinese Automaker Unveils First Electric Car
JuliusSu writes "A Chinese auto manufacturer, BYD, is introducing today the country's first electric car, a plug-in hybrid vehicle. It plans to sell at least 10,000 cars in 2009 for a price of less than $22,000. This put the company ahead of schedule against other entrants to this market, such as Toyota, due to release a similar car in late 2009; and GM, whose Chevy Volt will be launched in late 2010. The company is best known for making cellphone batteries, and hopes its expertise in ferrous battery technology will allow it to leapfrog established car manufacturers."
This should be good, lol.
You are all a bunch of idots.
Vaporware. Woo Hoo Hoo.
How we know is more important than what we know.
[citation needed]
Do you even lift?
These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.
Is this article red because its about the Chinese?
This is a little OT but I figure someone here might know. With so many electric cars finally coming to market I thought it would be smart to plan ahead even if I'm not ready to take the leap yet...
So, I'm in the process of a remodel and have an easy opportunity to install a high-amperage electric circuit to some location in the garage. Is there any emerging standard for charging electric cars that would dictate the ideal location to put the outlet? I.e. in front of the car, driver side, passenger side, what height from ground, etc. Also amperage, type of plug etc would be good to anticipate, although initially I'd just have an empty conduit running there from the load center.
Does this mean it's reliable?
Is it made of Melamine like all their food?
I avoid any products made in China now because I can't trust them anymore. How much food is recalled and childrens toys? Do you want to be in an accident in one of these things and then find out that to cut costs, they used cheap air-bags?
Every time you call tech support, a little kitten dies.
Detroit wasn't interested...someone had to get on with it.
GM killed electric trolley public transportation on the East Coast decades ago, pushing for city buses made by GMC that used internal combustion. The VOLT was promoted using jazzy images of impressive body lines that promoted interest, only to release a breadbox as the final design. GM doesn't want the VOLT to succeed, and now with their imminent demise, they may get their wish.
BYD will be in NA in short time, and more like them will follow. I wish them best of luck.
Look, we're getting tired of this shit.
There is an art to good trolling. Copying and pasting that tired old waste of screen real estate ain't gonna cut it anymore. It was only funny the first 5 times.
Slashdot's intellectual standards for posting are higher than the norm and here, troll posts are no exception. Do your damn homework and come back with a comprehensive proof of the theory that one's penis size is inversely proportional to their brainpower and use a survey of races and ethnicities to prove your point. The penis size debate(www.penissizedebate.com) is a good starting point of what should constitute a lengthy(no pun intended) troll post.
A hybrid or an electric? GM, Honda, and Toyota hav all produced hybrids. Tesla produces an impressive electric car. What is new here except that *this* Chinese manufacturer is producing *this* car?
If your only tool is a hammer, every problem becomes a nail.
I never thought I'd say this, but I miss the GNAA. At least they changed portions of their standard troll to include (sometimes humorous) allusions to current events. By today's standards, they were downright brilliant.
slashdot has gone drudge.
" hopes its expertise in ferrous battery technology will allow it to leapfrog established car manufacturers"
Okay, so if I were Goodyear then that would equate to me being able to make a better car because . . .
Oh, wait . . .
Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.
This troll has been used and abused. Changing the main character to Obama does not show any originality. Trolling is an art form when done properly and people will react to wit and originality. This is obviously an amateurish lame attempt.
If you wish to research proper trolling, I suggest that you browse to: http://www.gnaa.us/ and see how it's done.
Please refrain from further posts until you build up your troll skill level.
* Carthago Delenda Est *
About the only thing that is truely american is the arrogance.
Engineering is the art of compromise.
Water-Powered Car Incredible invention by Stanley Meyer (R.I.P.)
Water-Powered Car 2 Another one, just unveiled in 2008 by Japanese company Genepax.
Water-Powered Car 3 Denny Klein's car goes 100 miles on four ounces of water.
Water-Powered Car 4 Daniel Dingel runs his car on water, too.
Water-Powered Car 5 Yet another website on the subject.
...retarded. Nothing is made in the US anymore dipshit.
Being very optimistic, I hope moves like this on the part of the Chinese will ultimately lead to a "Technology Race" between the West & India on one side and China on the other - similar to the Space Race of yesteryear. The race will involve space, but likely be much broader and include robotics and AI advances.
Or maybe we'll get caught in a major bout of cock waving with one another and just kill each other off.
If you can read this... 01110101 01110010 00100000 01100001 00100000 01100111 01100101 01100101 01101011
You forgot to include a car analogy.
Paying taxes to buy civilization is like paying a hooker to buy love.
If foreign auto makers are constantly fighting with their government over stricter standards or if they strive to get a leg up on the competition. I just think it seems to be an odd contrast to our big 3 who have lawsuits by the dozen to prevent states from setting stricter emission guidelines. If they would embrace what the people are asking for, perhaps they would actually be more competitive in the business. Do foreign auto makers do business the same way? I am genuinely curious.
In Korea, only old people rehash old slashdot memes.
All you have to do is make the back wheels bigger than the front and you are always going down hill. This should improve mileage by quite a bit but be careful, if the size ratio gets too big it is almost impossible to stop.
while(1){sig.get()}
...but it will only take a full charge about 10 times, then the capacity will rapidly decline to about 10% and occasionally the battery will appear fully charged but then have no energy at all.
I drove one of these but two hours later I felt hungry again and had to drive it some more.
120 characters isn't enough to explain it.
WOW!?!
With all the sh*t that's been going on with them, and the money they are begging for, GM is not able to get an electric car to market earlier than late 2010? Well, this begs two questions:
1. What the fuck was GM's CEO doing all this time? I mean, what justified his salary and bonuses, much higher than the ones of the Toyota boss (and I don't see Toyota begging the Japanese govt. for a bailout)? Maybe he was working, or maybe he was spending the whole day sucking his wife's clit. I think the result would have been the same, regardless.
2. Wouldn't bailing out such a dinosaur be counter-productive in the ong term? A smaller GM would certainly be more able to turn out new designs. AND, more importantly, you don't teach people that if you fuck up, there's a magic fairy that will save you. One thing I have learned in life is, people are motivated by negative consequences. Remove the consequences, and you get indifference and inertia.
Bailing out GM would reward indifference and gross incompetence. I hope the Obama administration doesn't do it. But Bush might.
"The agriculture ministry is not in charge of Gundam" - Japanese ministry official.
I RTFA, no images, uhmmmmm, I see. I hope that BYD can make the car to California specifications so that a down trodden masses like myself could buy one, AND drive it to work. This combined with a Solar Cell Roof could save me some large coin.
you'll see that it's the first hybrid to be produced in the PRC.
I'm Bosch and I make, among other things, spark plugs, master cylinders, alternators, etc and that should qualify me to make a complete car. BR>
Bosch is probably not the best example and they probably could make a better car, but you get the idea.
Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.
A big challenge to any new player getting into the electro-auto market is dealer support. Where is someone supposed to get parts for this thing or a Tesla? Sure, an electric vehicle design should require less maintenance, but even components will need to be replaced due to accidents and road wear.
I've heard people say the auto bailout money should go to a start-up like Tesla. The problem with completely abandoning the American automakers and putting public funds behind a startup is that the big three already have huge infrastructure in place. They already understand production. Bless the hearts of those Tesla idealists, but they're going to spend a BUNCH of money developing dealerships, parts distribution, training mechanics & sales people. And until their production numbers get big, the deals they'll cut with suppliers won't be as profitable as the ones Ford/GM/Chrysler make with their suppliers thanks to the economies of scale they're working in.
I'm not saying there isn't a place for smaller companies to come in and fill a niche demand. But now isn't the time to abandon the American auto companies and watch them perish. If that happens, Toyota, Honda, and Hyundai will assist in a huge transfer of wealth overseas.
Seth
$5 / month hosted VPS on linux = awesome!
It seems to me that this highlights the difference between an economy based on greed - "It's OK, we can continue to stifle innovation and rake in the profits", to one based on need - "We have the largest population and a fast growing economy (and associated emissions pollution), how do we meet both those challenges AND make a profit on the way?"
Comment removed based on user account deletion
The US "secret trade weapon": safety and emission standards. Its coming: they learn quickly.
"California's attorney general has sued the six largest U.S. and Japanese automakers for damages related to greenhouse gas emissions.
The federal lawsuit alleged that emissions from their vehicles have harmed Californians' health, damaged the environment and cost the state millions of dollars to combat their effects. The lawsuit, filed in U.S. District Court in Oakland, names Chrysler Motors Corp., General Motors Corp., Ford Motor Co., Toyota Motor North America, Honda North America and Nissan North America."
The same type of "sue, countersue" activity has been seen in Europe.
Don't know about China, India or Japan though. How safe is it to sue the governement in China nowadays anyway, if you're a Chinese Company?
"Kill 'em all and let Root sort 'em out"
I have yet to see a serious, insightful post about this story. A little googling turned up pics and data although I confess that I don't know what
16 kwh / 100 KM works out to in MPG.
The pictures I saw of the car look pretty nice. Congrats to the Chinese - if this turns out to be a quality vehicle, it may force the Big Three stragglers to dump some of their guzzlers and give
us clean, efficient vehicles we can depend on
Pain is merely failure leaving the body
TFA says
"AHN Staff
Shenzhen, China (AHN) - China's BYD Co., which is 10 percent owned by U.S. investor Warren Buffett, said Monday that it has launched the world's first homegrown electric, mass-pr...
BYD chairman Wang Chuan Fu told reporters on Monday that the company will sell the vehicle in European and U.S. markets in 2011, which is a delay from its previous decision to launch in the regions by 2010.
What is going on in this thread? Have all U.S. Slashdotters gone crazy? This _is_ good news after all.
As non-U.S. citizen, please explain this general hostility to me.
Wonder who wins that battle.
....So far all the chinese cars that have been engineered in china have been terrible. I remember one example that looked like any other common car in the US or elsewhere, but it did so poorly in crash testing it couldn't even manage ONE STAR.
Bah, you call it ONE STAR safety rating. China merely calls this birth control.
When the first Japanese cars showed up in Europe in the 1970s, they were cheap but had a terrible reputation. That has changed. Today they are on the same quality level (and almost as expensive) as European cars. Toyota even ruled the reliability/breakdown statistics for years, only recently some European models have retaken the lead.
I expect that the same will happen with the Chinese cars. They may have not much experience in car making now, but 10 years from now things can look different.
C - the footgun of programming languages
I've been told that they've only sold 150+ electric cars in Europe, where the population is always ready to jump on the latest fad.
Where do you suppose the other 19,800 of these cars will be sold? OH! China is Communist: they'll sell'em at gunpoint. Nevermind. :>
Here it is more of a lobby game. As a European I'm not aware of any large lawsuits of that kind going on, but the car makers certainly try to create political pressure against stricter emission standards. And they tend to be successful in influencing their governments, who then try to change EU policy in the sense of "their" companies.
In particular, German car makers who have a of large models in their fleet try to kill the planned emission limit of 120g CO2/km.
C - the footgun of programming languages
You're right. I'd love a Tesla, but spending over $100K on a small 2-seater with limited range and no gas backup is not an option for me. Nor is it for most people. It's basically a semi hand-built car with all of the non-electric/electronic engineering done by Lotus. (It's 90% an Elise).
So yeah, they don't know shit about car engineering, let alone volume production.
Still want want though...
As for the Chinese car, good luck with the crash test.
one thing they do that is ecologically harmful is that they make ELECTRIC CARS
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
Well, they're the target of lifestyle environmentalists, unionbusters, as well as government-backed transplants.
If that happens, Toyota, Honda, and Hyundai will assist in a huge transfer of wealth overseas.
Never mind that it'll be the last you'll ever see of affordable performance. Cheaply built compacts or overpriced exotics will be the rule of the day should they fail.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
A kWh is a measure of energy, and a gallon (US) of regular gasoline (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petrol#Density) contains about 9.67 kWh of energy. 15 kWh is roughly 1.55 US gallons. 100 km is roughly 62.1 miles.
The mileage 15 kWh / 100 km is equivalent to about 64.5 miles per US gallon.
I hope I got that right.
and I don't see Toyota begging the Japanese govt. for a bailout
They already are being bailed out by our government and the Japanese government.
Bailing out GM would keep the middle option of affordable performance. Of course, you'd think that was an I-4 over a straight-six/v-8 for well under $20000(6cyl) or $30000(8cyl).
Crank out less environmentalist cars.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
GM killed electric trolley public transportation on the East Coast decades ago, pushing for city buses made by GMC that used internal combustion.
Come to somewhere deep in the Rust Belt - and see trolleys.
Then wonder why they've kept them and Ohio being in lockstep with Michigan in supporting bailouts.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
At the first sight of the title I thought it was something about GNU Automake and car analogies on Slashdot.
Colorless green Cthulhu waits dreaming furiously.
Anyone here ever owned a Harley-Davidson that was built by a bowling company? Lets see how a company who manufacturers cell phone parts does....I'm not saying it won't work....but for 22K I'll wait a year and get the Toyota.
neorush
Speaking from a point of view that can see the GM world headquarters from my apartment, I'd like to think that GM has learned its lesson; I desperately do. What with the automakers shitting themselves and the local corruption of government, I'm finding it harder and harder to honestly say that I love Detroit. I don't know what American car companies can do about it anymore. With the toxic UAW and the bureaucrats blaming each other for the downfalls of their industry they are totally ignoring the fact that there are other countries vying for number one. It's shameful and it's ridiculous that we spend all our time pointing fingers instead of getting shit done. Now people are vandalizing foreign cars more then ever, keying things like "buy American" on to hoods and doors of Hondas and Toyotas. Oddly enough I take a walk though GM's showroom to find that one of their models are made of 15% American parts; the rest is made in Mexico. It has become blatantly obvious that cheap people power fuel this industry and we as American are nowhere near that willing to work for so little. I don't blame companies for outsourcing, that's capitalism and it's been our mantra for a long time. If we're finally seeing that we're digging our own graves here, we've noticed it a little too late. I just hope India and China would learn from our mistake. I think the first electric car is a decent start. And just for the hell of it: I, for one, welcome our new mandarin speaking overlords (that one was a little too close to home to be funny, wasn't it?)
The 14'th amendment was was created to be an option.
Trolley lines were steep decline before World War One.
It cost about a penny a mile to transport a family of four in a Ford. There would be room for a dog and a week's worth of groceries.
The trolley fare would be 5 cents each plus transfers. Your dry goods parcels shipped by Downtown Merchants Delivery and the dog stayed home.
The trolley line had tracks and overheads to maintain. The big city line could employ 7,000 people and still not consistently show a profit with wages of 21 cents an hour. $2.50 a day when Ford was paying workers on the line $5 a day.
The open cars of the rural lines were a joy in mid-summer. Navigating the streets of the Garment District to board a car in mid-winter not so much.
Especially, perhaps, for a woman.
So if you buy one of these, given Chinese manufacturing quality, and you get electrocuted, which of your family members does the Chinese government bill for the burial?
Other than this text, there is no discernible information contained in this sig.
What's wrong? Mostly that every week or so someone comes up with another article claiming cold fusion or gas made from dirty sweat socks or some such. The article seemed a bit thin to me so I did some googling and found an Edmunds article claiming the car would be out next year. But that article came out last year. See any cars around yet? Then I cam across this one that says the car won't be available around here until 2011. And then there's a Bloomberg article that claims that, "The government may subsidize hybrid cars to cut costs for consumers." So is the $22k price tag with or without the subsidy?
For comparison purposes, I've been following the saga of the Chevy Volt and I think the BYD offering falls into the too-good-to-be-true category. The best guess seems to be the Volt will cost around $35k to $40k, mostly because of the expensive lithium-ion batteries, and the all-electric range is about 40 miles. But the BYD says they're using the same batteries and selling around $22k with a 62 mile all-electric range. And while the Chinese model is allegedly "here" you and I won't get to see or touch one until at least 2011. Until I see better specs or more detailed plans I can't get excited about this.
Mind you, I think plug-in hybrids are the way to go, but cars like the Volt and Tesla never recover the extra cost of the vehicle in fuel savings. I suspect the answer is to ditch the fancy batteries and stick with cheap lead-acid packs and a limited all-electric range of about 20 miles for a basic two adult and two kid car. It still means that half the forty mile range will be all electric. The last piece of the puzzle will fall into place when parking spots (malls, office complexes, parking structures) offer recharging for a fee. How many people drive to work, then park for eight hours? Until then you're in a chicken-and-egg trade off. The rechargers won't be put in until people are buying plug-ins, but not many will buy plug-ins without the rechargers.
===== Murphy's Law is recursive. =====
"GM, whose Chevy Volt will be launched in late 2010"
Shouldn't this be: "in case someone buys the Volt in GM's bankruptcy sale, the product then formerly known as Volt may be launched in late 2010..."
Has been making electric cars since 2005.
Internet Retail spaces are wonderful. Get over it!
Nobody has even noticed that the name of the car is 'BYD.' In Asian countries this is translated as 'Bury Your Dead.'
Seth
$5 / month hosted VPS on linux = awesome!
Even limiting availability to large cities in China, I don't see any demand for electric cars materializing there. Even though they have been marketing towards, "cab operators, government agencies and corporate customers," this cannot sustain such a new venture.
All the salary information I can find pegs the average salary in Chinese cities and towns at close to USD$5,000. That's Yearly! Sure there is wealth, but the gap is enormous. And you will not convince the Chinese wealthy to drive some introductory electric car over their other expensive, flashy imports. Image is too important.
Their delay to launch in European and US markets until 2011 seems like a bad decision.
Maybe its just me. NPR reported this with their usual anti-American smarmy tone, noting it was faster, went farther, charged faster than the Detroit produced Volt. But they forgot to include the actual specs. The story notes that the car will go 62 miles on a charge, but not how fast, how much weight it will carry, what is the acceleration rate, how fast it will recharge, how long the batteries last, how much they cost to replace. This, of course, would be reporting, or journalism. I dont really expect journalism from npr, wired, or the Chinese news bureau, but please folks, ask questions. Or wait.... Think.
>...Chinese, this is a country that has had a incredible GDP since the days of the silk road.
It would be difficult to create a single sentence that displays a more profound lack of comprehension of economics, of history, of politics, -- hell, of basic maths(1) -- than this eruption of stupidity.
Do you have any freaking concept of what led to the rise of communism in China?
Can we say 'feudalism plus the painful lack of economic development for the vast majority of the population"?
See, I knew you could.
1. Hint: try compounding an 'incredible GDP' over that period of time. Gosh, that's an impossibly large number in a real economy isn't it Mr. Mugabe?
According to all of the published articles, this car doesn't meet US safty standards and the manufacturer isn't even saying that they'll try.
So guess what, these aren't going to show up in the US or EU.
Go spend some time on greencarcongress.com and read the hundreds of articles about US and EU manufacturers who are bringing PEV and HPEV cars to market.
This is not even close to revolutionary.
from byd.com. F3e is a remarkable example of energy-saving, environment-friendly, technology-driven and trendy automotive manufacturing. Inheriting the design concepts of being Faddy, Faithworthy and Futuramic, it has taken the concept of driver-friendly into full consideration It is also equipped with an on-board charger, which is compatible with a standard electric socket (220V 10A). Thanks to BYDâ(TM)s
outstanding technology integration capacity, F3eâ(TM)s cost has been reduced to the maximum extent, laying the foundation for commercialization of F3e.
Search for Chinese automobile crash tests on Youtube and this "cheap" plug-in does not look like a deal.
Battery powered electric cars seem like a great idea for most of the warmer climates, but here in Winnipeg it's -45 F with the windchill. The motor in my electric window struggled to work this morning even after the engine had warmed up.
What happens when EVERYTHING is powered by electricity?
Does that include losses in charging? And if not, how much is does charge loss add?
a state enforced abortion in the 18th trimester?
...has anyone tested 'em for lead paint yet? Melamine in the gas tanks, maybe? Now we're going to trust them to sell cars to us? Not me, dude.
Downmodding is the refuge of the weak. Don't downmod, make a better argument!