Slashdot Mirror
Is the Yellowstone Supervolcano About To Blow?
An anonymous reader writes "Apparently, Yellowstone National Park has been having a very unusual number of earthquakes. Many of the most recent tremors have been deeper underground, an ominous sign. Combine that with a rapid rise in elevation over the past three years, and the possibility that earthquake activity from surrounding areas could trigger such an eruption on its own, and you've got the possible warning signs of a supervolcano eruption that would wipe out half to 2/3 of the continental US, plunge global temperatures, and wipe out a very significant chunk of world food sources. Here's a little more info to make your New Year brighter!"
After all, if we are going to have the sun blocked out by a huge cloud of dust, it would be fantastic to have as much heat trapped on earth as possible!
Dec 21, 2012
Suddenly the economy doesn't sound like such a big problem after all.
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
Why not? All the mathematical models claimed that the US Financial credit market and the Housing Bubble wouldn't burst at the same time- they calculated that was a once in 75 million years event. Given the luck of the United States lately, a 1/600,000 year event going off right now would just be the icing on the cake.
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
Well, if it's going to be the apocalypse (and I'm not going to be responsible, much to my chagrin), can you just make sure I get a few weeks' notice? There are... things... I want to do.
... when the global cooling occurs, it'll get Al Gore to STFU for once.
No. I could not be. Its a fucking volcano, it erupts when it wants. Don't make one thing about another.
After the fact.
I wasn't going to party tonight but this gives me a valid excuse to stop by the liquor store on the way home.
Map showing recent earthquakes is over here http://earthquake.usgs.gov/eqcenter/recenteqsus/Maps/US2/43.45.-112.-110.php
How many Library of Congresses is that?
It's more likely to cause global cooling, as TFS and TFA state.
I claim first use of "Error No. 0B" - or "No. 0B error." It'll be the new ID 10T!
Boom tomorrow. There's always a boom tomorrow.
It would more likely knock out all human life in the USA and burn/melt most of the populated areas of Canada and Mexico. Don't forget it will cause a huge drop in temperature which will cause a mini ice age Doesn't really matter where you are in the world as everyone will most likely starve to death in a couple years anyways. I think it was Mt Toba that went off last time... which dropped the human population down to 10,000 and kicked off a mini ice age 75,000 years ago.
The linked articles do not really raise any cause for concern. The title sure has a ZOMG!!! factor to it, but in reality it's just a bunch of what-ifs. Move along, nothing to see here.
blah blah blah
Happy new year to you too. *grin*
(posted safely far away from the Netherlands at 01:07)
home
Seriously Slashdot, you need to work on your reaction time. This was news two days ago.
These earthquake swarms happen frequently in Yellowstone, and this one has already ended. Yellowstone has dropped back to its ordinary low rumble.
But then again, I could be wrong.
History books will refer to late 2008 as The Year God Decided He Really Hated America.
(This is only true if the volcano blows within the next 5 hours, and I have to say - if it's going to blow, it should do it then, just for the humor value.)
Breaking Into the Industry - A development log about starting a game studio.
With a apocalypse right around the corner, its a good thing that I am spending many hours in the perfect post-apocalyptic simulation, Fallout 3.
Super Volcano or Nuclear War, the net effect is the same, just one has less radiation.
Don't rush me, Sonny. You rush a miracle man, you get rotten miracles.
Yes, but only if someone hears it.
Only three things are certain; death, taxes, and apocryphal quotations - Ben Franklin.
When should I start to panic?
My friend Ford Prefect says, "Don't panic"
Nah, won't happen till Mayan doomsday. Enjoy your New Year. (Though at least we won't have to fix the 2038 bug).
[Insert pithy quote here]
At times like these, I feel it's appropriate to start rocking back and forth singing:
Life's a piece of shit
When you look at it
Life's a laugh and death's a joke, it's true.
You'll see it's all a show
Keep 'em laughing as you go
Just remember that the last laugh is on you.
And always look on the bright side of life...
Always look on the right side of life...
"Climate change may actually increase the probability of volcanic and earthquake activity!"
Come on get off the fence, does it or doesn't it.
We need to stop Lavos from destroying the world!
Some things are fixed, some things are in a flux. Yellowstone is a fixed point in history. What happens, happens. There's no stopping it.
Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
It's kind of interesting, how the Slashdot crowd has really nothing meaningful to comment on this possible and according to some scientists "overdue" event.
One
Well, this is true, but what you have to remember is that those "mathematical models" were created by imbeciles who believed that all events in the financial market were independent (i.e no event in the market affects any other event), that the market can grow forever without limit, and -- worse -- still believe that when an event that the models say is a once-in-a-hundred-years event happens three times in six months, it's not an indication of a basic flaw in the model, but rather a rare fluke that means it's now statistically certain it'll NEVER happen again. The global financial sector's "mathematical models" are worthless, and always have been. They built a house of cards using imaginary money as cards, and the question was only one of when the house of cards would collapse.
The financial market and the Yellowstone basin are hardly related. Our models of vulcanism are incompletely understood, and based on what is -- on a geological scale -- a very short period of observation, a mere century and a half or so in the case of Yellowstone. But they are at least based on observation and study, not wishful thinking. Yes, many of the models indicate that there could be another supervolcanic event at Yellowstone "any time now". But on a geological timescale, that "any time now" could be a thousand years away.
This is interesting news, and absolutely bears close monitoring, but I think it's a little premature to run around shouting that the sky is falling. But regardless of the actual risk from Yellowstone, I don't think that the failure of the consensual delusion passed off as mathematical models of the global economy constitutes anything that can be used as evidence for anything except for how stupid a whole lot of ostensibly really smart people can actually be, when they're blinded by greed.
That's just the sort of "bend over and take it up the arse" that has gotten you Americans into the mess you're in right now. You should be out protesting in the streets about this impending supervolcano! If you aren't part of the solution you are part of the problem. Won't someone _please_ think of the children? Maybe next time you'll vote in a government with a firm policy platform on the whole supervolcano issue. If this supervolcano goes off then the terrorists win.
I've got plenty more!
I noticed that too, and the local distribution of the cluster does look somewhat like pre-volcanic activity. But if it were the supervolcano. I'd expect activity along the caldera margins. This looks more like something that would result in a new cone or maybe just some new hot springs under the lake.
Watashi wa chikyubutsurigakusha desu.
Figured taco would post this story from the "maybe the volcano might warm me up dept"
ZERO ZERO ONE ZERO ONE ZERO ONE ONE! Just brushing up for my next big invention: Ethernet over Voice (EoV)
You elect an imbecile to the most powerful office in the world. Twice.
You spend/borrow your way into a financial crisis.
You alienate and disgust 99% of the rest of the world with (just off the top of my head) Guantanamo, bombings inside Pakistan, extraordinary renditions, the whole Iraq fuckup, Kyoto, etc.
You remove more and more of the basic rights of your own citizens.
Apart from that, please think about the majority of humanity around the world, count your fucking blessings, and shut the fuck up. Try living just one day as an average Somali, Haitian, Zimbabwean, or Burmese.
I believe the point being that if this particular volcano erupts, pretty much everyone will hear it.
Visit CryptoGnome in his home.
Um no, dude, you don't really get it. If Yellowstone blows, there is no volcano eruption in human history that even remotely comes close. Mt. St. Helens would look like a fart standing next to Chernobyl. Areas 400 miles away would get covered in a foot of ash. There is just nothing like it.
Here is a nice, graphical link for you to look at:
link
The number of deaths could be staggering. That foot of ash, even 400 miles away in Denver, would collapse most roofs, and any with people in them would get severely injured or die. It would be the end of the U.S. as a global superpower, and there would be wars. You are naive.
Japanese scientist: Technically, sir, tomatoes are fags. Military scientist: He means fruits.
So I take it my recent venture into the ice-cream business could have been a mistake?
Hell, I could be so bold as to state some asinine comment on Slashdot and not care about Karma or mod points:
I love MS, hate Apple, think Linux is cute but just a toy, and man enough to admit I own a copy of the Joy Luck Club on DVD. ...I feel liberated.
-- Posted from my parent's basement
Please do not panic. Resist the temptation to read or talk to loved ones. Do not attempt sexual relations, as years of TV radiation have left your genitals withered and useless.
Developers: We can use your help.
I'm sure you're posting to Slashdot from an average Somali, Haitian, Zimbabwean, or Burmese household. On a high horse, no doubt.
Fortunately, the Yellowstone volcanic system shows no signs that it is headed toward such an eruption in the near future. In fact, the probability of any such event occurring at Yellowstone within the next few thousand years is exceedingly low.
...
Lava flows and small volcanic eruptions occur only rarely--none in the past 70,000 years. Massive caldera-forming eruptions, though the most potentially devastating of Yellowstone's hazards, are extremely rare--only three have occurred in the past several million years. U.S. Geological Survey, University of Utah, and National Park Service scientists with the Yellowstone Volcano Observatory (YVO) see no evidence that another such cataclysmic eruption will occur at Yellowstone in the foreseeable future.
(emphasis mine)
As for that "several million years" figure for a devastating explosion of the kind TFA is describing, consider that the United States as a nation is still less than 250 years old. I'm not saying it can't happen, but the idea that "it hasn't happened in a long time so it must be ready to happen now" is just a popular Las Vegas delusion.
Breakfast served all day!
Has tapping this as an energy source ever been considered ? i am not a geologist but I am thinking if there is so much geothermal energy right beneath our feet (probably very deep) of such enormous magnitude there could be a way to tap into this.
Only problem with reducing the pressure is that the pressure is the only thing keeping it safe.
A magma chamber apparently has a stack of gasses etc under high pressure. While they're under high pressure they stay in solution, but as soon as the pressure is released, all the gasses come out of solution, rapidly expand and well... #NO CARRIER
sudo mount --milk --sugar
And all this time I thought that if you weren't part of the solution you were part of the precipitate...
Probably not, but Yellowstone is a very geologically active area, and my first thought when I hear about new activity there (which comes and goes all the time) is of hydrothermal effects.
There's a lot of water moving around underground there, lots of faults, and lots of heat to drive it. When water or ground moves it can change the pressure in other areas, which may allow existing fractures or faults to slip and cause earthquakes. (The hydrostatic pressure of water and CO2 in cracks in rocks can reduce the effective confining pressure holding the rocks together, so they slip more easily -- understanding fluid effects is critical to understanding earthquakes.)
It seems like every time there's an earthquake, or change in geyser activity, or some ground inflation, or whatever, the popular press starts barking about gigantic volcanic eruptions. Before you pay attention to them, consider that a volcanic eruption requires molten rock to reach the surface. On its way it will have to push lots of existing rock out of the way, and that rock will have to go someplace, probably up, which we would detect as significant ground inflation. On its way volatiles would be released which we would expect to detect as unusual concentrations of various volcanic gases and changes in water chemistry. Significant changes in the behavior of existing geothermal features would also be expected.
We also hear a lot about Yellowstone's largest eruptions, but most eruptions are small.
Interestingly, it has been calculated that as much as almost 1/3 of a cubic kilometer of basalt is intruded beneath Yellowstone each year, which if I recall correctly is similar to the amount entering the magma system beneath Hawaii. In Yellowstone, however, it's trapped beneath a gummy layer of molten silica rich rock which itself eventually erupts and partially accounts for Yellowstone's famously explosive outbursts. The basalt, for its part, tends to cool and solidify underground, over time forming a long track of high density rock that is easy to see on any topographic map of the western US as a feature we call the Snake River Plain, terminating with the Yellowstone Caldera as the head of the snake.
Our models of vulcanism are incompletely understood
We just need to think more logically.
Honestly, this isn't that big of a deal. Even though the Yellowstone caldera is geographically huge, the very fact that it takes half a millennium to build up enough pressure to erupt shows that the geothermal energy is stored under yellowstone very slowly. Or at least the majority of it is released via the geysers and shift in tectonics. If geoscientists had firm evidence that yellowstone had a high chance of eruption within the next 10 years, all we would need to do is build geothermal plants and suck up as much geothermal energy as the mantle puts in. So not the drama.
What is it with things named/called Caldera
The three last eruptions were 6000, 700, and 2500 times Mt St Helens 1980 (MSHE), which released 1.67 exajoules (1.673 x 10^18 Joules). According to the esteemed Christopher Thomas 1 Burning Library of Congress (BLoC) is equivalent to 4 petajoules (4 x 10^15 Joules). Converting MSHE to BLoC gives 1 MSHE = 418.25 BLoC. So the last three eruptions were 2509500 BLoC, 292775 BLoC, and 1045625 BLoC, respectively. Since we don't know how big the next eruption will be, let's just assume the mean of the last 3, and that's 1282633.3 BLoCs, or 39% of the total solar energy that strikes the surface of the Earth.
Unfortunately we don't have firsthand data on what a very large caldera forming eruption looks like in its earliest stages. ;-)
If we look at smaller eruptions elsewhere, such as Mt. Mazama in Oregon when it erupted to form Crater Lake, there's enough information to piece together a pretty good narrative. (Unfortunately I am not familiar with much research from Yellowstone documenting the geologic evidence for precursors to its climactic eruptions, although I am aware of the many smaller eruptions that preceded the big ones.)
At Crater Lake the narrative is a bit disconcerting in that it appears to have started off like any other bog standard plinian eruption, which is admittedly not a trifling event, but then as that eruption wound down and you might have expected the eruption to end, it was then that the caldera collapse began which unleashed the main show. The point is just because an eruption starts out small doesn't mean it will end that way -- especially in this kind of volcanic system where you have a good sized reservoir of fairly explosive silica rich magma. On the other hand, just because there's a small eruption it doesn't mean a large one is imminent.
Mt. Mazama was a large complex edifice built of countless prior eruptions, and even fairly large lava flows that erupted only shortly before the caldera forming event; a couple hundred years prior to the climactic eruption a very thick rhyodacite lava flow squeezed down the flank to form what we now call Llao Rock.
What's even funnier is that my post is moderated 'Insightful'. Pay attention moderators!!! There was nothing 'Insightful' in my post - it was one of those things you do in the morning when you haven't had your caffeinated energy drink yet.
nah, it won't quite be that bad. most predictions expect the immediate danger zone to have a radius of 1000-1600km, with pumice & ash deposit probably covering all of California and most of the Midwest. but rather than being burned, most deaths/injuries will likely be caused by ash inhalation.
luckily, modern humans have the benefit of science and technology.given enough warning, most people within range of the volcanic explosion and subsequent lava/pyroclastic flow (70,000 to 100,000+ individuals by some estimates) can be evacuated beforehand. everyone else will simply have to stay in doors for a couple of days before they too can be evacuated outside of the ash cover area.
the USGS seems pretty confident that the YVO monitoring program will detect any premonitory indicators (such as emissions of magmatic gases) of any such impending disaster. and studies indicate that, if there is a volcanic eruption, it is not likely to be a caldera-forming supervolcanic eruption due to insufficient rhyolitic magma-storage to sustain such an event.
in the event that a caldera-forming eruption takes place, then yes the ash will probably circle the entire globe and lower the temperature in the lower atmosphere for a few years, and that can have a severe impact on the ecology of the planet. but it's certainly survivable. and the chances of such an event actually occurring is still statistically insignificant--contrary to what is often reported, are are not "overdue" for a supervolcanic eruption. (the mean interval between such eruptions is 710,000 years, not 600,000 years.)
if others are interested, you can read the USGS's report on the Preliminary Assessment of Volcanic and Hydrothermal Hazards in Yellowstone National Park and Vicinity (the actual report is in PDF format).
Yep. Major rhyolitic, non-huge-caldera-forming eruptions have a far more statistically significant record than anything you could call "supervolcanic", and are only once every ten thousand years or so on average. Far more common. And most earthquake swarms at Yellowstone have nothing to with upcoming volcanic eruptions.
Sorry to ruin everyone's doomsday fun. ;)
Anchor: "We take you now to our Chief Meteorologist, Paris Hilton." Paris: "It's hot." Anchor: "Thank you."
Everyone will starve to death?
Not quite that level of an apocalypse.
It'd kill off, say, a few billion people. Places such as Mexico could still farm food, enough to sustain hundreds of thousands of people.
And the situation would recover fairly quickly - we'd almost certainly see a complete crash of global economy, energy prices soaring like never before and cannibalism becoming a viable survival strategy, but the end of the human rice? Hardly.
Sometimes typos are beautiful!
Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
You cannot wash away blood with blood
No, pretty easy to tell. In the immediate short term, the global cooling effect of stratospheric ash is FAR stronger. Tambora caused the northern hemisphere to skip a summer in 1816 in case you forgot. Not that the Dalton minimum helped either. It took five years for global temperatures to return to normal after Krakatoa in 1883.
Yeah, I spotted that in the preview but let it pass anyway. :P
If I am warmed and cooled at the same time how will I know what to complain about?
God: "Pull my finger..."
Just thought I'd post these up again:
Main global earthquake map
List of EQs in the SouthWest
Display of drum recorders for the Southwest
Cheers and Happy New Years!
There is simply too much glass..
Don't confuse the end of the world panicky Lemmings with facts...
The deaf won't. But there will be people from the govt going around making the "BOOM" asl sign.
We did, and she's spent her entire life trying to live up to the destructive power of her namesake.
Awesome furniture, accessories and cabinetry in Santa Rosa, CA: http://humanity-home.com/
You owe Bush so much, for keep us safe and for keep the crisises that have happened from going realy bad.
I believe there is an error in the original equation:
115M books * 1 kg/book * 390 kJ/mol CO2 / 0.012 mol C/kg ...or on the order of 4 petajoules.
1 mol of C = 12 grams, or 0.012 g/mol of C. Not 0.012 mol C/kg.
Now, to make things easier, we can apply the value for the energy released by burning wood pulp given by the U.S. Department of Energy which is: 17455.6 J/g. Reference:
This would give us: 115M books * 1 kg/book * 1000 grams/kg * 17455.6 J/g = 2 * 10^15
Which is still on the same order of magnitude as the original equation, but also means we don't have to worry about the mass of oxygen consumed by the burning, or the mass of the CO2 given off. (Thanks to the DoE for giving the Gross Heat of Combustion for cellulose products.)
Reading code is like reading the dictionary - you have to read half of it before you can go back and understand it.
Volcanic "ash" is not burning wood "ash". Volcanic ash is actually pulverized, powdered rock that only superficially resembles wood ash as it falls and collects on the ground. It's not the result of any burning process.
More recently Mt Pinatubo caused a small but measurable drop in global temprature. Several similar events occured in the 20th century, the mesurable effect lasts a few years at most.
Long term? - During the 20th century mankind's GHG emmissions dwarfed those from volcanos and I suspect our areosols (soot,etc) over the same period have done more to keep a lid on warming than the ash from volcanos.
Unlike anthropogenic climate change there is nothing much we can do about a volcanos except get out of the way, the fact that humans exist at all demonstrates primates have managed to do that for millions of years. The industrial age has only been going in earnest for a couple of centuries but already it has caused the sixth great extinction.
And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
People tend to eat nearly as much ice cream in winter as in summer, when the body tends to crave the fat in response to harsher environmental conditions.
But just to be safe, better add espresso. And liquor. And cigars. And porn.
You could call it "The Little Vice Age"
Kind of makes the California smoking ban useless.
Many small earthquakes may or may not be a sign of increased pressure, but it's definitely a sign of increased release of pressure. Not being released in small increments could mean a major quake later.
Rather than worrying about lots of earthquakes, maybe we should be worried when there's a lack of them.
There, that should give the professional Doomsdayologists in the media plenty to write about, since the lack of seismic activity almost everywhere may be a sign of impending (sometime, maybe, who knows, but let's call it this anyway) doom.
"I may be synthetic, but I'm not stupid." -- Bishop 341-B
It's more likely to cause global cooling, as TFS and TFA state.
<VallyGirlVoice>What eeeever. Magma is HOT, dummy.</VallyGirlVoice>
There's no place like
And the starving. There's always the starving.
Everybody seems to think I'm lazy I don't mind, I think they're crazy
well, if that does happen then there will certainly be major food shortages around the world and severe infrastructure damage (reservoirs becoming silted up, dams breaking, entire towns covered by meters of ash, power lines in other areas snapping from the weight of ash cover, etc.) in the US, but i think science & technology will prevail. my city happens to be within the ash cover area, but i think the city population would still be able to survive.
first off, we would need to get respirators and gas masks, then we would have to secure a water supply. next, we'd need to repair the power lines or build our own little power plant. since no one is going to be driving on the roads, we would have plenty of gasoline to run a large gas turbine capable of powering a small community for a couple of years.
with basic infrastructure restored, we can then focus on securing a food supply. with careful rationing (America is the land of waste and excess after all), existing food supplies that were produced before the disaster would probably last a good year or so. that would be just enough time to establish a local food supply. lack of sunlight and cold weather won't be a problem with a power plant available. it's not too hard to build a greenhouse (or use an existing one) and set up a hydroponic system and grow lamps to produce artificial sunlight & heat.
it will take some hard work, but it's nothing that a little human ingenuity can't overcome. if anything, it'll encourage people to adopt more sustainable lifestyles, foster cooperation and a sense of community, and create a more efficient and egalitarian society in the long run. if Americans want to survive this kind of disaster, they'll have to learn to cooperate with and help one another. rather than depending on agribusiness and corporate farms hundreds of miles away to produce one's food, local communities will have to get together and set up farming co-ops and learn to be more self-sufficient.
if this were India, China, or Africa, then there might be a large death toll. but America has a lot more material wealth and natural resources. we also have a more educated population and the technological and scientific knowledge that brings. our biggest challenge is simply overcoming our culture of selfishness and ignorance. if mass hysteria breaks out or society degenerates into lawless chaos, with everyone fighting over immediate resources, each person blindly pursuing their own selfish interests rather than working together, then we probably won't survive. but chances are most communities will be able to make it through such an ordeal.
personally, i'd travel to the nearest university where there are the highest concentrations of:
additionally, college campuses have large libraries, digital knowledge repositories, advanced research labs, scientific equipment, and many even have greenhouses and seed banks. so you have the human resources, information resources, and material resources to survive the catastrophe. and you'll also be connected to a global academic network.
evacuated to where exactly? and by whom? you saw what happened to katrina do you really think we're any more prepared for anything like this?
You would be too hot to handle, yet too cold to hold?
Yup, your "dead" on.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toba_catastrophe_theory
google "32 trillion offshore needs IRS attention"
Yellowstone will erupt in this dramatic fashion. The Siberian Traps will too. The 1.5km-diameter (or much more) space rock will definitely strike earth in the future. A comet will too. These aren't tinfoil hat ideas - everybody in the related sciences agrees that these events will occur. It's just a matter of time. Maybe it will be a long time, as we think about it usually, or maybe it will be a short one. Each of these events is neither more likely nor less likely to happen on a particular Monday a million years hence than they are on July 4, 2012.
They will happen and when they happen there's a good chance they'll wipe out all human life still on the Earth. Events like these don't have to wipe out mankind. We can choose to not let that happen. Or not.
Help stamp out iliturcy.
Keep in mind "The year without a summer" was a Volcanic Winter
that was small by comparison.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Year_without_a_summer
Scale up the results accordingly and you can see why the
Toba Catastrophe Theory is only a theory because no one
recorded data on the results that we have found.
google "32 trillion offshore needs IRS attention"
Maybe ... but I still remember being in Hawaii and being informed that the volcanoes there would qualify as the #1 environmental polluter if it had been a factory.
Apparently the fact that it was a "natural system" let it off the hook, but you still didn't want to be downwind of the Vog (Volcano Fog).
This space for rent. All reasonable inquiries will be entertained at proprietors discretion.
you saw what happened to katrina do you really think we're any more prepared for anything like this?
Despite the bunging of Katrina's aftermath, what I saw in *advance* of Katrina was quite useful. The Mayor BEGGED people to leave town on local television. Everybody had several days' warning, they just chose not to leave. And it's the idiots that didn't leave that were starving, peeing on and raping each other in the stadium a week later.
It would be terrible if it happened - I have a good friend in Montana, but if warnings were as good as Katrina's, I'd be just fine. As a Californian, if I see Arnie telling NorCal folks to bail, I'm gone in 60 seconds, with my kids in the back, laptop and backup drives in hand!
I have no problem with your religion until you decide it's reason to deprive others of the truth.
Seriously, dedicate a portion of the land towards geothermal power. Any good cook, and any good engineer will tell you that when you want to keep heat under control, you reroute it elsewhere. Build some geothermal plants on the spot, you know how deep the magma is, then building vent/transfer systems around the caldera will in fact cool it down to prevent an eruption, AND you can sell the electricity generated for, well, generations.
Sheiss, it's so simple, should I really be the one suggesting this? I'm a high school dropout (intellectual as I am), and it's really that obvious.
Just because you can mod me down, doesn't mean you're right. Shoes for industry!
"I also grew up training in martial arts which, after a while, typically includes some medical training (along the way I've ended up helping to treat everything up to and including a gunshot wound)."
I knew we should be keeping our eyes on Ninjas. Now they're throwing bullets.
Shai Schticks:"You don't make peace with friends, you make peace with enemies"
"They will happen and when they happen there's a good chance they'll wipe out all human life still on the Earth. Events like these don't have to wipe out mankind. We can choose to not let that happen. Or not."
That's it! I'm moving to Mars, where it's safer.
Shai Schticks:"You don't make peace with friends, you make peace with enemies"
It won't "burn/melt most of the populated areas of Canada and Mexico", not even close. The magma/lava discharge will simply stay in and around the area of Yellowstone +/- at most 100 miles (heck, the longest known magma/lava flow in the solar system is only ~160 miles, and that is on Jupiter's moon, Io). The only thing that people outside that area have to worry about is ash and volcanic gasses which will be discharged. Unfortunately, the jet stream will force that eastward across the USA (and around the world, in the event of a major eruption). Get your facts straight. And the people modding the parent up for informative should also get their facts straight...
There is also no direct evidence that the eruption of Mt Toba was the cause of the drop in human population. For all we know there could have been a major epidemic which was highly contagious which would slowly kill someone over the course of a year or more (think something like an AIDs virus which was transmitted simply by close contact, not sexually transmitted). We simply don't know for certain. We are now, however, much more technologically capable of dealing with a mini-ice age if it was triggered by an event like this. While it would be difficult, if we really had to work for something, we would develop filters for removal of the particles of ash and soot in the air, and eventually also devise methods to remove or trap the volcanic gasses.
We were all warned a long time ago that MS products sucked, remember the Magic 8 Ball said, "Outlook not so good"
Interestingly, when St. Helens erupted, the majority of the ash fell in a relatively small agricultural region. I know, I lived right in the middle of that farm country at the time. When it happened, everyone assumed a total loss for the year, since the ground was caked in inches of the ash cement. The region looked like a wasteland, and mobility was very limited.
But the agricultural disaster never happened. The crops bounced back with a vengeance and produced spectacular record yields. Not just for that year, but for several years thereafter. It turns out that the several inches of ash acted as incredible fertilizer and helped the soil retain moisture, and the crops poked their way through the ash after a couple good rains. Most of the US would get that kind of dusting of ash across its agricultural belt, and while there might be some cooling it will likely be offset in part by a massive agricultural rebound that compensates for a significant part of it. We expected the worst when St. Helens erupted, but the reality was far less than that in terms of food production.
People tend to eat nearly as much ice cream in winter as in summer, when the body tends to crave the fat in response to harsher environmental conditions.
But just to be safe, better add espresso. And liquor. And cigars. And porn.
in fact, forget the espresso and the cigars
I am not stubborn. I am right!
First, if you think all the major nations don't have an operation plan that covers this and all plausible contingencies, you're naive. It's their job and they're good at it.
If Russia nukes the Yellowstone valley, we nuke the Siberian Traps. If you think Global Climate Change is bad, you should see those models. They're bad .
Nuclear submarines will be unaffected by ash, and both sides have them. Tracked vehicles traverse ash just fine. Some nations are prepared with tanks and ships in underground bunkers as well. Remember that we'll be weak with little influence from our national government for five years or more. That means that after at most four years and at least 30 days, our federal government won't have plausible authority. At that point it's every man for himself. They could nuke us then and get nuked back, but what if South America, which is nuke free, chose that moment to invade? Could we push them back with our bogged down infantry? If we wanted to wipe them out, who would we nuke?
At that point we as individuals will choose. Will we choose rightly? I don't know. There are points of history that can't be predicted because the outcome is decided by heroes. That's what "hero" means.
Let's hope this unpleasant contingency does not occur. But let's be prepared for it, just in case.
Help stamp out iliturcy.
Last Post!
Don't trust a bull's horn, a doberman's tooth, a runaway horse or me.
personally, i'd travel to the nearest university where there are the highest concentrations of:
progressive civic-minded & altruistic individuals
intellectuals and knowledgeable experts in assorted fields
innovative freethinkers and fresh young minds
Awesome. I'll travel to meet up with some hunter friends of mine who have guns and wilderness survival skills... we'll shoot you and your newly found progressive buddies, eat your vegetables, and have a long pig BBQ!
Your laptop has an acceleration sensor. It can be used to detect earthquakes.
http://qcn-web.stanford.edu/
Bert
small amounts of volcanic ash might only irritate your lungs, but if a supervolcanic eruption took place, it would likely throw up tremendous amounts (~1000 cubic miles) of tephra/pyroclast, the finest particles of which could circle the globe and remain suspended in the atmosphere for years. if you're immediately downwind from such an eruption, you'd be breathing in heavy amounts of what is essentially microscopic shards of broken glass for weeks or months.
archaeological evidence has been uncovered showing that the mass deaths of plains animals 12 million years ago during a supervolcanic explosion at Yellowstone were due primarily to lung disease from volcanic ash inhalation. even many animals that survived the initial ashfall were still killed by the ash stirred up by their own movements or wind.
When the volcano erupts it makes a lot of the petty things we care about today seem insignificant.
How bad an eruption will be depends also on the type of ash that gets ejected. And it will probably be worse for those living east of that eruption since the majority of the ash will be carried east on the jetstream.
A major climate change caused by an eruption will cause great changes in where crops can be grown and which types of crop that you can grow. The changes in climate will cause major migration of people, war and famine. I suspect that equatorial regions will be the least affected by this while regions like the US, Canada, Europe and Northern Asia will be a very tough area to live in. Inuits moving to Florida?
If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
I know if a localised calamity was due to affect a city here in Ireland, we would have the national bus operator's fleet transferred to special trips for evacuation, and similarly full trainloads would be organised to other cities and emergency facilities. The government would reemburse the transport operators from tax money - because we all pay taxes (yes, even the unemployed thanks to our regressive indirect taxation of 21.5% sales tax and direct charges for just about everything). Ireland is kinda US-looking, so I guess you would get a bunch of morons on the other coast complaining about the cost (despite the fact they would be quite in favor of such action if the calamity affected them instead - and the fact the country would be rather worse off with a sudden wiping out of so many citizens).
It seemed crazy to me that in the New Orleans situation, it was expected of everyone to get out under their own steam by private car or regular transport. Even for many who did have private cars, it should have been preferable for them to be specifically evacuated by special mass transit services. There should *never* have been a need to provide "centres of last resort". Anyone left should have been forcably evacuated. Of course some people's reluctance to leave is an indictment of the ability of the forces of law and order to protect people's property (i.e. from thieves rather than natural forces) even under normal circumstances in the US.
It seemed like they did things more along the correct lines the second time around (masses of special bus services, etc.), but it's actually distressing that they didn't get it right first time around when it was not an unanticipated problem.
-- *~()____) This message will self-destruct in 5 seconds...
It would depend on the time of year. If the ash fell while the crops were growing, then it would block them from getting the sun and crush them, killing them very effectively and eliminating a year's yield. If it fell at another time, it would just fertilise the soil.
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
Ugg. The problems with the Somalis are far worse than merely not being "born into relative privilege."
The Mayor BEGGED people to leave town on local television. Everybody had several days' warning, they just chose not to leave. And it's the idiots that didn't leave that were starving, peeing on and raping each other in the stadium a week later.
That statement is incredibly offensive. Yes there were some 'idiots' that chose not to leave, however, the majority of the people who ended up "peeing on and raping each other in the stadium" were the poor and the elderly and the sick of New Orleans who didn't have the resources to leave or the resources to stay anywhere else even if they could get out.
Strangely enough, most of the people who did manage to have the resources to get out were the white folks. When you take the fact that the government rescue effort was abysmal at best and didn't really get rolling until the airwaves were blanketed by some pretty ugly imagery, some might even speculate that 'George Bush hates black people'. Of course I would never ascribe to malice what can be explained by incompetence. All the same, it seems like a sad state of affairs when the preferable alternative is multiple levels of sheer incompetence.
<VallyGirl2Voice>But then it would all, like, cool down, like food does when its, like, heated. Maybe it would, like, cool too much? Oh no! What if I'm not hot anymore? (feints)</VallyGirl2Voice>
Most human behaviour can be explained in terms of identity.
Of course, our problem here is we can be bussed a maximum of about 150 miles before we run out of land :)
It's all fun and games until a 200' robot dinosaur shows up and trashes Neo-Tokyo... Again
The three last eruptions were 6000, 700, and 2500 times Mt St Helens 1980 (MSHE), which released 1.67 exajoules (1.673 x 10^18 Joules). According to the esteemed Christopher Thomas 1 Burning Library of Congress (BLoC) is equivalent to 4 petajoules (4 x 10^15 Joules). Converting MSHE to BLoC gives 1 MSHE = 418.25 BLoC. So the last three eruptions were 2509500 BLoC, 292775 BLoC, and 1045625 BLoC, respectively. Since we don't know how big the next eruption will be, let's just assume the mean of the last 3, and that's 1282633.3 BLoCs, or 39% of the total solar energy that strikes the surface of the Earth.
So the energy crisis is solved? What a relief!
Most human behaviour can be explained in terms of identity.
At least around here we know we'll always have enough virgins to throw in.
This is on BBC today..
Supervolcano
*wearing tinfoil hat* How did they know?! ;)
If you expect civil society and all it's benefits to remain intact during a predicted doomsday scenario of this size, you're either being idealistic or truly naive.
Resources and staff for police and law enforcement will be diverted to even more important events and projects, and the remainder will not be sufficient everywhere.
It won't be total lawless anarchy, but way too few officers for a lot of people in a way too large county. Which is ironically resembling the "Wild West" society model of former times.
I don't want to dive too deep into the Nerds vs. Jocks contest you just entered. For any thinkable doomsday scenario, having a manageable-sized group of healthy adults with a very diverse skillset is probably the best preparation.
Nevertheless, people without real physical or directly applicable theoretical skills could be dead weight, though, when the current situation requires immediate self-defense against predators or nature and self-procurement of foodstuffs.
Society has to be pretty stable and evolved to make good use of people with majors in comparative literature or liberal arts and sciences.
Note that I'm not saying they are useless for wealth creation, but their primary fields of education are pretty limited when society is in a state that bears, hurricanes, thugs or hordes of refugees are literally knocking at the door.
habit of bombing things like wedding parties
Really? A habit of it?
So, we can use your definition of "habit" to also say that Pakistanis have a habit of murdering school teachers for teaching, a habit of blinding women with battery acid for having the audacity to turn down a the sexual advances of an old man who already has three other wives? Ah yes, the Pakistani Habit of sending religious zealots into other countries where they take over villages by force and then march women into what used to be soccer fields and shoot them in the head at lunch time in front of a crowd for... teaching their daughters to read?
What? Those aren't reasonable descriptions of the "habits" of all Pakistanis?
Do you suppose that any Pakistani military operation (say, in the middle of shooting people while arguing over who owns Kasmir, for example) has ever involved the death of anyone other than their intended targets? Ah, so Pakistanis are in the habit of killing innocent people? Or is it that you're just in the habit of being a breathless troll with no perspective whatsoever?
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
I don't remember hearing anything about evacuation officers disallowing people to board because of their skin color. It would've been all over the news for weeks, even for a single isolated event.
I DO remember, however, that of most people who actively REFUSED to be evacuated were from predominantly black quarters. It was suggested they were trying to protect their property from burglars.
I also DO remember who was the predominant group among the school bus drivers who did NOT appear when they were all be called to evacuate people en masse. It has been suggested, that they were also at home protecting their property.
Now it's a questionable choice when people prefer to protect your TV set over being evacuated to safety - and an even more questionable decision to NOT show up on your duty as an evacuation bus driver and rather protect your TV set. In any case, the choice to rather die or let other people die than let someone break into your house is purely personal, and certainly independent of George W. Bush's skills or lack thereof - or anyone else's, for that matter.
But I'm sure there is a plausible explanation why some people who were supposedly "staying at home to protect their property" were later seen looting and ransacking property of those who evacuated.
When the televised results of absurdly wrong personal choices make some people speculate if "George W. Bush hates black people", one could reasonably well speculate if "black people hate Walmart", because that's what it looked like on TV.
One could still argue that many people would loot an unprotected Walmart Superstore given the chance, regardless of their skin color. But then again, where were the poor people who are not black? Did they somehow catch the Whites-only buses from 1962 or did they stay at home, protecting their TV, listening to country music with their rifles and bibles in hand?
It's all probably a giant conspiracy when they filmed the looted Walmart with all looters being black by pure chance. That black POLICE OFFICER who seemed busy looting the store with all the others probably was casted for this role, her threat to use her gun if the camera team wouldn't stop filming well rehearsed to sound surprised and convincing.
On geologic time scales, "about to" could be 5000 years in the future.
In WW2, only 15% of soldiers actually shot at the enemy - and they were under fire and had been explicitly trained to kill. Even in a truly life-or-death situation, humans are not nearly as violent as disaster melodramas like to make out.
In times of hardship and disaster, the default mode of most humans is cooperation not competition. People pull together in hard times, which can be verified in Britain by talking to people alive during the war.
If we can put a man on the moon, why can't we shoot people for Apollo-related non-sequiturs?
You have clearly not been to New Orleans, have you? There is a huge majority of black people, whites are the minority. If you set a camera in front of a Walmart at any time it will likely still look like all black people were shopping/looting/malingering/loitering/shopping/shopping/smoking/walking-past there. It's just the way the racial distribution works there. Adding to that the fact that seemingly a majority of the white folk live in the better neighborhoods like the Garden District [where I lived, which had no water damage, BTW...] and the fact that property is and has been CHEAPER IN THE LOWEST PARTS OF TOWN... go figure... guess who lived in the most affected areas? Hey.. the lower income families! The water didn't care what color your skin was.
Don't forget guns
A) people will want the guns more than anything else you have - well, maybe not the porn.
B) you'll need them to defend your stuff from other people with guns.
"As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly." A. Carlson
Well, let's take an example from the past and compare speed of federal government response. How about the San Francisco Earthquake of 1906? Surely we've improved since then. Here's a bit of the timeline:
April 18, 1906: 5:13 a.m. Earthquake hits
A messenger arrived at Ft. Mason at 6:30 a.m. with orders from Gen. Funston to send all available troops to report to the mayor at the Hall of Justice.
First army troops from Fort Mason reported to Mayor Schmitz at the Hall of Justice around 7 a.m.
At 8 a.m., the 10th, 29th, 38th, 66th, 67th, 70th and 105th Companies of Coast Artillery, Troops I and K of the 14th Cavalry and the First, Ninth and 24th Batteries of Field Artillery arrived Downtown to take up patrol.
War Department received a telegram from Gen. Funston at 8:40 p.m., Pacific Coast time, that asked for thousands of tents and all available rations. Funston placed the death toll at 1000.
April 19, 1906
Secretary of War Taft at 4 a.m. ordered 200,000 rations sent to San Francisco from the Vancouver Barracks.
Secretary Taft ordered all hospital, wall and conical tents sent to San Francisco from army posts at Vancouver; Forts Douglas, Logan, Snelling, Sheridan and Russell, from San Antonio and the Presidio of Monterey.
Secretary Taft wired Gen. Funston at 4:55 a.m. that all tents in the U.S. Army were en route to San Francisco.
The Federal government did a better job helping after a disaster in 1906- even in the first 24 hours- than they did about a century later.
I know how to make beer, so will bring the beer to the BBQ. I hear slow roasted long pig goes well with a good cold brew.
Actually they were supposed to use the fleet of school and municipal Buses to assist the evacuation per their local emergency plans, but they kept the buses locked up until they flooded. Bush's biggest mistake was not declaring a Federal state of emergency and remove the ineffective the mayor and governor from the command loop and Federalizing the National Guard and Police.
Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
the seismologists studying this earthquake activity all mysteriously resigned and moved to Africa.
and immediately restore all of civilisation, just like they did after the fall of Rome, only much quicker this time and the quality will be so much higher and it will be ten times more efficient...
Posts, MyBio or Sig, may contain satire, sarcasm, bolded nouns be sardonic or even witty & be Church of SD
Which will keep you alive for what?
Six weeks, six months?
Guns need powder and ammunition. Lubricating oils. Spare parts.
Game becomes hard to find. Edible plants, fruits, nut and berries become hard to find.
You will need to forage constantly across greater and greater distances.
Are you sure that mushroom is safe to eat?
Captain John Smith, who knew something about survival, published a list of provisions he thought essential for every immigrant to Virginia: basically, a year's supply of everything.
Enough food to eat, so you will never be tempted to dip into to your seed stocks. The hunt will be hard work, not sport, and you are not as good with a gun as you think you are.
Bring fishooks. Learn how to fish.
Bring clothes for all seasons. Hammer and nails, axes, planes and saws. Build quickly and build well. The winter will be longer and harsher than any you have known.
Bring animals. Layers. Breeding stock. Shelter them. Protect them.
1) Commandeer the newsmedia and make the following policy announcements:
2) All major highways out of the area in question will be made unidirectional for 5 days (with a one lane exception for police/military/fuel supply). If you have a car/van/MC/etc and wish to leave with it, you must do so within the next 5 days.
3) National guard/army/police will be at crucial checkpoints inspecting vehicles. Any vehicle without one passenger for every seat will not be allowed to pass. However, people without vehicles (such as the poor who were left during Katrina) may assemble at these sites and will be offered a seat in your car/van/etc if it is not full.
4) If you refuse to take assigned passengers and/or refuse to eject possessions to do so, your vehicle will be commandeered and given to a car-less driver.
5) On the 6th day all roads will be shut down to personal vehicles and the roads become bidirectional.
6) On days 6-10 buses (and semis capable of hauling people in the trailer) will begin making round trips to evacuate as many of the remaining people as possible. Only vehicles capable of carrying at least 10 people will be allowed on the road.
7) Continued refusal to comply and/or seriously disruptive behavior will result in you being shot on site (both because the delay or misuse of resources you are causing will threaten the lives of others and absolute order is essential to getting as many people out as possible.)
8) The seriously infirm (i.e. nursing home patients, people in the ICU/on vents in hospitals, people who have a less than 6 month life expectancy due to cancer/etc) will not be transported out. If supplies are available and these people consent, euthanasia should be offered by health care workers. To prevent too much hysteria though, during the first 5 days, if you can schlep your family member, they can go in your car/van/suv.
9) All people living outside the 1000km radius will have people assigned to inhabit their living spaces and will be required to accommodate them until more habitable space is available for them. (#7 applies outside of the 1000km radius as well.)
Of course this assumes I have those dictatorial powers. And this certainly would not get everyone out, but I think it would do the most good for the most possible. Though just instituting #3 would have saved hundreds of lives and the suffering of thousands during Katrina.
It comes from research conducted by the US army, which contrary to what one nut on snopes says hasn't been debunked; the reason kill rates have gone up is because, with a better understanding of the psychology of killing, military training programmes have changed.
If we can put a man on the moon, why can't we shoot people for Apollo-related non-sequiturs?
I'll travel to meet up with some hunter friends of mine who have guns and wilderness survival skills... we'll shoot you and your newly found progressive buddies, eat your vegetables, and have a long pig BBQ
Six weeks, six months?
Guns need powder and ammunition. Lubricating oils. Spare parts.
Although nice firearms aren't needed for game. Besides using firearms I've also hunt with bow and arrows and have trapped wildlife. Though I don't like fish I have woven nets that can be used to fish.
Game becomes hard to find. Edible plants, fruits, nut and berries become hard to find.
Now that depends on the location and population. Even though I live in a major metro area in the north, the Twin Cities of Minneapolis/St Paul, on the postage stamp sized lot where I live I can grow 10% of my own food food easily in my garden. Though I started my carrots and radishes late this year, I had enough lettuce and cherry or grape tomatoes for salad every day for a month. I had enough tomatillos for one soup, or salsa, a week for months. There was enough rhubarb for a few sticks a week as well. This spring I'll add blue berries and strawberries. And maybe potatoes and corn. This past growing season I got a bunch of remarks about how well my garden grew and was asked a number of tymes how I was able to grow my plants as big as they did grow. A few said they wanted me to help them on their garden next year. And my growing season is short.
And that's just where I live now. When I lived in Florida I was able to grow enough food for most of the year in my mother's backyard. Preserving food, canning, drying or dehydrating, smoking, and using other methods of preserving food allows the food supply to last longer. I mention each of these because I have done all of them, and have lived in survival situations.
Falcon
Should there be a Law?
Happy New Year first of all (let's be polite) :)
I live one hour from Yellowstone Lake, which is the center of the latest supervulcanic explosion caldera. I haven't felt any tremors and neither have anyone of the residents here. I have worked in Yellowstone and (as anyone visiting the Old Faithful Visitor Center can see from the seismographer there) Yellowstone has hundreds of micro earthquakes every day. On the other hand, Yellowstone's supervolcano has gone off every 600,000 years or so and the last eruption happened... well... about 600,000 years ago. So, geologically speaking it's time. Will it be 2009? I doubt it. And to prove it to you next summer I'll go scuba diving Yellowstone Lake like many people do.
Okay, I'm seeing two general threads here:
% People who are stupidly calling something like this the end of the world
% People who are stupidly downplaying the threat
This will not be the end of the world. It wasn't the end of life on the planet the last time it happened. We know this.
Now that we got that out of the way, let's be clear here. People seem to think that 35cm of ash is like snow, and that they can handle 35 cm of snow. Here's a hint. Snow eventually melts and is taken back up into the atmosphere or is absorbed into the ground. Water is part of the standard climate cycles we deal with every day.
Ash is not water. Ash does not melt. Ash is fine particles of non-organic solids. If it ends up on your roof, it does not melt off the top of your house, it collapses your roof. Once it is on the ground, it makes a big pile of crap, and then stays there, forever. When you try and plow it or whatever, it will end up in your lungs and choke you.
Pyroclastic flows, magma and all the rest will simply eliminate 13 states. Those 13 states probably produce most of the food in the United States. Even if you evacuate, food supplies would probably be completely exhausted in a few weeks.
After an eruption in the early 1800's we had what was called The Year Without a Summer. Crops failed, people really did starve, and this was just a rather big explosion of a relatively normal volcano. Yellowstone, should it blow, will likely completely eliminate organized agriculture except (if we are incredibly lucky) in the most optimum of places. Those places will might produce food, but not enough for 6-7 billion people. And even if those people were likely to want to export food that they don't have, there would cease to be a transportation infrastructure capable of feeding people across the Atlantic or Pacific Oceans.
Most people will die. When they die they will rot. When they rot there will be disease. We'd probably be better off resorting to cannibalism so that we can at least do something with matter that will otherwise breed plague.
There is a saying that we are 24 hours from barbarism at all times. This is true. Even if people do the unexpected and all pitch in to rationally help one another, the infrastructure for most modern civilization will likely be untenable in most of North America and quite possibly elsewhere. There is no modern society without energy sources and the means to get it where it needs to go.
People will survive, but those people who believe that the advances of modern society will soften the blow appreciably fail to understand that our advances have taken most people farther away from the skills that they need to survive, rather than made them safer from this sort of threat. Our technology level could be helpful, but no one has really used it to protect against this sort of threat, and therefore, we would be reduced to what still would work when we get sucker punched by this.
If you point at other lesser volcanic eruptions as proof that its not so bad, you fail to comprehend the scale of the threat. These eruptions are survivable precisely because they are localized. They only remove a little infrastructure locally, but only a few miles away, everyone is fine. An explosion of this magnitude can affect ALL of the infrastructure at the same time, within a very brief amount of time. It is quite simply the same thing as if we launched all of our nuclear weapons at one another at the same time, minus the radiation.
It is bad, mmkay?
Happily, nothing is exploding anytime soon. These fools are just trying to make a buck with some good old fashion alarmist journalism. But, let's be very, very clear. If this did happen, you need to put your head between your legs and kiss your ass goodbye unless Jesus loves you and you get taken up in the Rapture. Otherwise, you're dead meat.
Maybe that has something to do with that region of Pakistan harboring the people who murdered almost 3,000 Americans?
Using that line of reasoning, is it reasoning?, the US should then be attacking Saudi Arabia. Most of the 911 hijackers were Saudis.
Kyoto is a flawed treaty. It will cripple the economy of the developed World while giving a license to pollute to the developing World (China/India). Why the hell should we cripple our economy if they aren't going to be on board with solving the problem?
Though I didn't want to see a President Gross, er Gore, I voted against Bush by selecting Gore on the ballot because of Kyoto. Having said that, after President Bush came out against Kyoto something he said provoked me to do some research. I didn't know it before but Kyoto did not have limits on GHG (Greenhouse Gas) emissions on either China or India. And both countries are building a lot of coal fired power plants. So from one perspective Bush was right, however he still could have encouraged or pushed businesses to cut emissions and develop renewable energy sources. What does he do? He instead tries to relax emission regulations, so power plants can emit more pollution.
You remove more and more of the basic rights of your own citizens.
Citation?
Warrentless wiretaps and searches as well as the PATRIOT Act.
Falcon
Should there be a Law?
It is widely documented that during natural disasters people organize themselves and help each other.
Some people in the US have an irrational love of guns, violence and oppression as a way to confront any major crisis.
In most situations what is required is human kindness and good organizational skills.
The brutes that will try to go hunting and make themselves strong, will not be allowed back in the village and will be left to rot psychologically by being ignored by the rest of the new community. Or will be organized by the clever people (i.e. politicians) as they had always been.
People with a gun just become the tool of somebody else's bidding.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.