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RIP the Campus Computer Lab, 1960-2009
theodp writes "When every student has a laptop, why run computer labs? That's a question schools have been asking themselves as computer ownership rates among incoming freshmen routinely top 90%. After only four freshmen showed up at the University of Virginia in 2007 without a computer of their own, the school decided that it's no longer worth the expense of running campus computer labs. Student computer labs have been a staple of campus life since the '60s. So what are the benefits that will be missed as other schools follow UVa's lead?" The university's report notes understanding that "that students need collaborative space where they can bring their laptops and mobile devices to conduct group work, especially as the curriculum becomes increasingly team- and project-based." One of the spaces formerly occupied by computer labs "has been transformed into a technology-rich collaboration area."
I lack a printer, and thus I rely on the University's printing capabilities. I'm sure I'm not the only one; many students appear to have their own computers, but seem to rely on the University for printing off papers or projects.
As a present college student, I have to say that I still spend hours in computer labs. I use a SunRay lab as a controlled development environment for computer science, and I have math class in a computer lab loaded with Maple and Mathematica. There's an open-access computer lab near me that I also use frequently to access necessary software, to use as a meeting place for group projects, or to use as a printer when I can't use mine for whatever reason.
Mind you, it's not like I don't have a computer on campus, but I still find myself using computer labs very frequently. And I know other people do too, the labs are almost always full when I'm in them. If labs die in 2009, it's not students' laptops that did it.
When I ran one, it was a lab of Linux machines running Matlab and a bunch of other software that most student machines wouldn't have. The computer lab was extremely useful for the students. I expect that you'll continue to see labs being used for anything that isn't common on a student's computer. (Video editing, 3D animation, Matlab, anything with specialty software), or for computer skills courses. Teaching excel is a lot easier when everybody is looking at the same version.
Sure, if it's just being used for web browsing and checking email, a computer lab may be much less useful now than it was ten years ago. Still, I think the social aspect of a computer lab shouldn't be overlooked. I expect that you'll soon see a movement of "micro computer labs" the size of a conference room with something like 3-6 computers, a conference table, and a white board, maybe a projector. Extremely useful for group projects, and things like that, but also useful by a group of completely random individuals as a small computer lab.
A PHB fills a room with couches and cheap avant-guard office furniture, and it's the end of computer labs? Computer labs will stay with us, for the simple reasons that there will aways be students unable to afford laptops, and computers are required to complete coursework these days. Not to mention the convenience being able to check email or print stuff without having to lug around a laptop all the time.
The English word fart is one of the oldest words in the English vocabulary.
[Troll]
A place where Business Major girls can go to find CompSci geeks to do their Programming for Non-majors assignments for them...
[/Troll]
"I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
When your laptop goes kablooey all of a sudden, it's darned handy to have a few machines around as a backup so you can type your Important Paper. You don't need hundreds, sure, but what's a couple dozen computers to a big fancy university?
The World Wide Web is dying. Soon, we shall have only the Internet.
Sure, this is fine for private schools, but at a lot of public universities a large amount of students are broke and trying to pay their own way through school. Getting rid of the computer lab would be a huge handicap for them, so I just don't think this would be feasible for other campuses
I spent countless hours coding in the labs at school. Good way to learn communication skills (face to face)...with other programmers.
I completly disagree with the removing of computer labs and i would just point two issues:
a) Freshman can have a portable, but they don't have the array of servers that currently are needed for a complete CS courseware. How do they program in cluster computers, clustered database servers and so on? Yes, you may be able to skip on the ton of personal computers, but you will still need the IT infrastructure to support a proper learning experience;
b) It is not appropriate to ask every freshman to ditch hard coin for a program just to learn something. In that case, the usual setup is for the school to have a computer room with computers and all the programs required. Also bear in mind that many programs aren't exactly instalable on a portable computer...
So yup... you may be right that the "need" for perssonnal computers aren't currently that great, but nope, computer labs will always be needed on schools that relate to IT.
Use that money for other, more useful puposes.
Provide (or upgrade) campus-wide wifi, provide an on-campus "geek squad" that actually knows what they're doing, etc.
'a';DROP TABLE users; SELECT * FROM DATA WHERE name LIKE '%'... if you're reading this, it didn't work.
When a course requires a certain software package, a consistent install base is crucial for teaching and troubleshooting.
When a system problem can't be solved by having the student move to another workstation while IT is re-imaging a lab computer, weeks of course time and homework can be lost. It is a headache keeping track of excused late assignments.
Not to mention software licensing issues.. It forces the instructor into a legal and moral choice between running the "new & hot" version the students are running and last years license the school purchased. Isn't your highest obligation to teach the students? And don't even start me on instant messaging.
This is unfortunate. The two universities that I am very familiar with both have very large computer labs where people can print out things. I am wholly reliant upon the university currently to print things out. I HATE toting around my laptop and so I prefer to use campus resources. That said, my department made the switch from physical computers to remote desktops. It's worked out well, but I have to say I don't like not being able to pop in and check my e-mail between classes without having to lug my laptop around like a ball and chain.
Sure, right now a lot of kids who just graduated from high school can convince their parents that they need their own computer in school (even if the school website says otherwise). Though as the economy continues to falter, parents should start taking a serious look at what their kids truly need for school (and realize that a computer of their own is not on that list).
Spend $1,000 on that new laptop, or instead use the same $1,000 to take out less in student loans? That should be a pretty easy choice.
Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
So, anybody else want to lug a desktop PC around? Not sure if those figures tie with laptops or what, but I know that I used to hang out in the computer lab so that I wouldn't have to lug around my laptop everywhere.
Is it sad that I am more likely to recognize you and your posts by your sig than your name or UID?
This is the problem, not what the rest of your post describes. Fix this and the rest of the problem goes away.
'a';DROP TABLE users; SELECT * FROM DATA WHERE name LIKE '%'... if you're reading this, it didn't work.
But when I did my comp-sci degree, there was numerous reasons to go to the lab. For one, they had printers, but also that had the correct OS (usually Linux or UNIX, where my PC had windows), the correct programs even when I was running the same OS (licensed versions of various development suits and such), and finally simply the ability to get help from fellow students, or such, while at the campus.
Computer labs are still useful. Most students don't own Mastercam, Photoshop, or even the latest version of MS Office, which our classes often require.
As people are discussing, there are computer labs and then there are "computer labs". No reason why "computer labs" shouldn't die. My library got five desktop _calculators_ when those were new in the 70s too. Be stupid today. Same thing.
Only in a computer lab can you lie in wait for some idiot to walk out without having first signed out, so you can then use their account to download all your illegal stuff without it being tracked to you.
I'm a civil engineering student and throughout my course I had to do a bunch of projects that demanded all sorts of software and although a bunch of that software has a free counterpart (openoffice, latex, maxima, GCC, etc...), we are still forced to use software that not only doesn't have any free counterpart but also costs an arm and a leg to begin with (I'm looking at you, autocad). That alone makes the computer lab to be nothing short of invaluable. That and the fact that my school's computer lab also sells prints.
Then there's the safety aspect. Nowadays I'm able to go to class with nothing more than a pencil, A4 paper, an USB drive. That's about 15 euros worth of stuff. If suddenly I was forced to carry around a laptop then that value would easily surpass the 600 euros mark, all that concentrated on a neat, easily stealable toy.
At my university (specifically, at the Faculty of Electronics, which includes network and systems engineering), this would not work very well, if at all.
First, several absurdly expensive applications like Matlab (yeah, everyone here knows about Octave, but the industry wants students to learn to use Matlab) are available only on the lab servers, and while it's possible to forward the X connection from the server and have them appear on the laptop's desktop (in fact, that's how they work on the lab computers), most Windows-using students can't be bothered even to install and use PuTTY and Xming properly, and even then, using Matlab over a WiFi connection is not for the faint of heart and weak-tempered.
Second, some things are to be accessed only from university-owned computers, such as the IEEE Xplore database and several scientific journals, and there's nothing the university could do about this, it's just how academic licensing works.
There are probably some more cases such as those, so the labs are here to stay for some more time, I think.
This is Slashdot. Common sense is futile. You will be modded down.
Computer labs won't go away, they will just change their mission. Instead of labs for general computing needs (email, info searches, web browsing), they will become support for specialized computing needs.
They are still needed to provide access to specialized professional applications which would be too expensive for individual students to license. High end scientific, art, media and simulation applications are too expensive or require too much computing power for the average student with a laptop to realistically use.
Students might have computers, but what they don't necessarily have:
-Matlab
-Mathematica
-Pro/E
-Solidworks
-Autocad
-FPGA Dev. Software
-Oracle DB software
etc.
etc.
etc.
Tons of people I know use the computer lab for school licensed software.
It's pretty much necessary, though, given limited time. Generally, you want to be teaching concepts, not fiddling with software details, and that's easiest if you just pick one piece of software for the purposes of teaching, and assume people can learn the details of other software on their own. So, for example, if you're teaching C++, you might want to be able to just assume everyone has access to g++ and GNU make, preferably all in the same version, instead of also dealing with XCode and Visual Studio and gcc under Cygwin and god knows what else. The easiest way to do that is just to have a Unix computer lab students have access to.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
One of my favorite professors, Arthur Lo, said of his course:
"Most of my students say that they get the most from this course from the lab exercises. I think that they get the most from their lab partners."
This was back when a computer "lab" really meant a "terminal room." But you could take a quick break, discuss assignments with other students, to make sure that you understood it correctly, ask older students which courses were good, tell younger courses which course sucked.
Computer folks tend to be introverted enough anyway; encourage them to get out a bit, instead of hacking alone in their dorm rooms.
Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
Hardware cost is nothing compared to the cost and maintenance of Adobe CS4, Avid or Final Cut Suite, Maya, AutoCad, MS Office, a Laser printer, a large format ink jet, or for that matter a community of users.
Once certs are generated to run all software on all hardware*, these kids running around with cracked apps are going to vanish into memories of the Old West.
kulakovich
* anyone else working on developing for the iPhone? Yeah.
Indeed it is easy - a laptop is available to my (hypothetical) child 24/7 wherever on campus they need or want to use it. It's entertainment, communications, education, etc... etc... in one compact package.
It's a bargain at twice the price.
I still find computer labs on campus useful. Some of the reasons have already been mentioned (printing, obscure software licenses, collaboration, etc..).
What I'd like to see more of is docking stations for laptops. USB keyboards and mice, large monitors, no boxen. Its still difficult to get access to these in most labs, they're often locked to the box in an inconvient manner...
The modern computer lab can still have computers, but they should accomodate the fact that many students have their own computers. Just include an actual computer at every other station or something...
In other words, they're having LAN parties there.
*whistle*
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
Spoken like a true idealist problem solver. Two of my favorite CS classes dealt with circuit design, and we depended heavily on a simulator (LogicWorks - not great, but it does the trick) instead of breadboards. I had to use the computer lab because its were the only computers available that could boot into Windows. Are you really saying that these courses should ditch the simulator, on principle, because classes shouldn't require specific software? Or that any student who finds a different simulator should be able to use it (which introduces all manner of hell for graders)?
$1000 for a laptop.
Why do a college student need a $1000 laptop? You can get a perfectly usable laptop for a lot less these days. If you are not CompSci, a $300-$400 netbook running XP is plenty.
Spend $1,000 on that new laptop, or instead use the same $1,000 to take out less in student loans? That should be a pretty easy choice.
But it's not $1,000: my netbook was ~$400...
I can see the "computer lab" simply evolving to better meet the needs of the modern student.
You're probably going to want to provide some comfortable workspaces where a laptop can be placed, and possibly offer amenities like a USB docking station with full-size keyboard, mouse and 20" or 22" LCD display attached. Network printers should be available as well.
You'd also want to have a number of desktop systems in the lab, loaded with specialized software packages needed for courses - but too expensive to expect students to buy for individual use. (EG. My ex-g/f had to use the SPSS statistical software for several of her psychology courses.)
I've seen several schools just bundle in the cost of a laptop with tuition for incoming students. Every professor knows that their students have a laptop, and certain software so they can require the use of a computer for assignments.
Especially in the age of cheap netbooks and OpenOffice, why isn't every school offering such a program?
Heck, we have a high school doing that in Omaha, except the school pays for a laptop and checks it out to the students for the school year.
http://blindscribblings.com - Tasty pop-culture in conceptual fashion.
Computer labs are essential to any good engineering program. The smartest and easiest way to provide access to and support for an array of engineering software is through University run computer labs.
At the University of Michigan, where I attend, there is a huge amount of software that engineering students have access to on any of the CAEN (computer aided engineering network) computers. All my complaints aside, the engineering network is one of the most useful resources. I have a fair amount of University storage space, access to all my files on any CAEN computer, and generally a lot more computing power available than on most student's laptops.
Students will routinely run simulations and analyses on the computers, letting them run overnight, or even days. Above all, without an engineering computer network, student teams, such as Solar Car, FSAE, Baja, etc. would not be able to design, build, and compete on the same level.
A properly run computer network can be a great way to provide access to a huge resource with an array of software otherwise unavailable or too costly for students.
So where would I go to pick up chicks now?
it's entertainment
Indeed, laptops on campus often seem to end up used for that more than anything else
communications
That is assuming that wherever they are on campus, they have some way to connect to the campus network and/or the internet. Not always applicable for every corner of every campus.
education
I would say the educational value of a laptop is debatable at best. I know plenty of people who finished CSci degrees without ever owning one.
a bargain at twice the price
Not sure if you'd still be saying that after paying for licenses for the software that they "just have to have". Sure, plenty of people can do just fine with OpenOffice, GIMP, and Linux. But should your child's professor be expected to know how to handle files that pass through those?
You may end up buying the laptop for $1,000; but you'll probably end up spending another $1,000 on the software that your child has to have, and the hardware upgrades to make it work properly.
And meanwhile, you're now $2,000 futher in debt than you would have been had you told that child to just use the lab like you did back when you were in school.
Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
As a retired CS professor, it is clear that students, in a centralized lab setting, learn a great deal from each other. General computer usage knowledge sharing, (non-cheating) discussions among students in the same class, and (most important) a centralized lab provides the setting for working on team projects.
Sure, offer ubiquitous wireless networking on campus, but modify some labs to maximize team project meetings and similar collaborations.
You can get a perfectly serviceable laptop for $700 these days, less for a netbook. If you can afford to take classes, you can afford a laptop.
A place where Business Major girls can go to find CompSci geeks to do their Programming for Non-majors assignments for them...
To what end? You force people to take a course, yet you allow them a way to dodgo that course's requirements making people not learn what the course is about. Why force them to take the course, then?
Oh well, it's not like the world is rational...
"Use that money for other, more useful purposes." > "beer..pizza"
Indeed it is easy - a laptop is available to my (hypothetical) child 24/7 wherever on campus they need or want to use it. It's entertainment, communications, education, etc... etc... in one compact package. It's a bargain at twice the price.
And if they convince you they need a mac, it may be at twice the price.
Anyone who spends $1000 on a laptop for school is an idiot. Take notes on paper and build a desktop for $175.
I remember when I first began Engineering at my local university, many of the kids did indeed have laptops. But they're (by and large) laptops running WinXP or some Apple OS. When we began our C course, not one of them knew what gcc was, or how to use XEmacs (which is what the course instructors asked us to use). Even those with laptops used the computer labs throughout the entire term.
Personally, my laptop (running Ubuntu at the time) suffered a hard drive failure during the semester and I'm eternally thankful I had access to the computer labs during that time.
At my University, most people have laptops or personal computers at home, but not everyone takes them to school - I don't. Sometimes having all your software (games, music, etc...) at your fingertips is too much of a distraction. When I really want to get work done, I go to a computer lab where the hard drives are wiped nightly and only software that students need for school is installed. It helps me be productive and it apparently helps others too. I frequently see computer labs on campus full or near capacity during peak hours. That said, They'll probably still vanish in fvor of some sort of cloud computing server that students can log into to access university software within 10 years anyway.
Yes, because only CompSci majors ever use intensive programs.
Mechanical engineers need to graduate with hands-on experience with a professional CAD package. Since these are far too expensive for students to buy, and there are no open-source alternatives, universities need to buy the software. When a university is buying CAD software, it makes sense to only buy one package, rather than waste money on several.
We solved the 'specialized software' problem by going open-source. Our introductory maths course uses Scilab instead of Matlab to teach linear algebra processing, R instead of SPSS for statistics, and Maxima instead of Maple for computer algebra. We help the students download and install these programs on their laptops.
We do still have PC labs because it seems quite a few students don't like having to lug in the massive weight of a laptop computer when they live off-campus. I also imagine there are students who have a pimped-out gaming rig instead of a laptop.
Why do a college student need a $1000 laptop?
Good question, and the answer is simple.
$1,000 is the starting price for the macbook.
The reason why this is important is because many of the kids who just graduated high school and have convinced their parents to buy they a new laptop for college are the same ones who convinced their parents that they needed an iPod in high school. And of course for these kids, whose lives revolve around facebook and their iPod, the most important aspect of a laptop is iPod compatibility.
Sure, they could be a lam3r and use something other than a mac to sync their iPod, but on mommy & daddy's buck, why?
Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
Many people here are arguing that computer labs are useful so students can use software that is not typically installed on their own computers (Matlab, etc) or to interact with high-end lab equipment such as "cluster computers, clustered database servers and so on."
That is what remote access (RDP, ssh, X, etc) is for. A university can stand up many systems that run this software and provide access to them (the "server" resources) without a physical computer lab with the "client" access portions (thin clients, PCs running ssh or X software, etc).
Everyone has their own client-side computers now. The server/services can be provided by the university without needing to provide the client piece.
And the problem with that is?
You make the false assumption that "communication" means "online". Emails can be edited offline, family photos viewed offline, etc... etc...
Yeah, I would. But then I don't obsess over costs while handwaving away benefits.
And the problem with that is? Other than you seemingly not have seen how cheap student editions of software are (I have, when my wife was in college two years ago), and your inexplicable belief that a reasonably current laptop will require some kind of hardware upgrade.
Yeah, when I was in school we had to walk uphill (both ways!) through six feet of snow to get to the computer - and we liked it! (Additionally - see comment above about obsessing over cost and handwaving away benefits.)
Sometimes a course is specifically to teach both concepts and proficiency with a certain software. No way to "fix" the dilemma by eliminating the software without eliminating the course too.
In a class of 150 (with smaller labs) IT issues can crop up weekly. Getting rid of specific software does nothing to offload the responsibility of the school to provide and maintain a functional learning environment. A computer lab setting creates generic "seats" so students can relocate rather than being tied to their own possibly malfunctioning laptop. Students can not afford to have hours of down-time, let alone days.
The licensing issue rears its head when marking because either assignments may be submitted in a software/version/format the school does not have because the student cannot export backwards to earlier versions or to a compatible file format.
I'm sure this will be great news for all the economically disadvantaged students who can barely afford to go to school in the first place, much less buy a laptop that will run all the software they need.
Also, laptops get stolen.
As a person with a history of issues, primary of which is social anxiety, the value of having my own computing platform can not be easily measured. Having laptops allowed me to work in an environment of my choosing, where I was able to work more efficiently without dosing myself regularly on Rx anxiety medication.
Second, I live off campus. The trips to school would've killed enormous amounts of time and money. I'd've spent thousands on the commute, even if it was only $5 there and back.
Also, there has been a myriad of times that something I was working on could only be accomplished on my own platform. Try building a OpenGL physics simulation at an art school that's filled with Macs without Xcode and Windows PCs without Visual Studio.
True, I'm probably the only kid that knows C++ in the school. It's also true that my own pursuit of knowledge would've been hampered had I not had my trusty Linux laptop. (Feel free to mod up for excessive use of the term 'Linux')
Lastly, you can't drink beer in school labs. Fuck that :-D
Anyone who spends $1000 on a laptop for school is an idiot
Which unfortunately means we have an astonishing number of idiots in this country. Not sure whether or not that should surprise anyone.
Take notes on paper and build a desktop for $175.
I couldn't agree with you more on that that one. My cheap desktop worked just fine for my undergrad years, and anytime I needed more computational power I had access to that through the school for whatever project I was attached too that needed that power.
Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
The dungeon I called it. Gray, cold, smelly, mildew scent, low lights, slumped shoulders befitting someone who's 80 not 20, glowing monitors, code....lots of code....and collaboration. What set the stage for the future was this collaboration in the dungeon of my university where CS majors were vanquished to do 'whatever it is we do'. This collaboration still takes place today in data centers freezing cold working 8 hours helping to install sql server as no one else is brave enough (or stupid enough) to do, coding in cubes small enough and restricted enough so if you swing your chair you will hit someone else coding. Collaborating anywhere, in halls, using napkins to get your point across. Anything now where I'm paid to collaborate is better than the dungeon. I'm concerned that these "technology-rich collaboration area[s]" will not make em suffer sufficiently to take on the challenge. Not the code, not the hardware, but the challenge of working in sub-optimal conditions and still be able to perform. That is the true test and that is what my dungeon gave me. What did it give you?
In my experience there's a lot of pressure from to get rid of labs in Universities and Colleges simply to reduce costs. At it's core, this is a process of shifting the cost of computing facilities from the institution to the students. And yes, I know that when the institution pays for labs the monies are ultimately coming, at least in part, from the paying students. However, a machine in a student lab is much more highly untilised that an individual's notebook, a cost of labs is spread across all students, rather than the individual, and the economies of scale mean that the cost per unit for the institution is utually much less than the cost per unit in the individual model.
Anyway, two reasons to retain labs:
- some students don't have notebooks. Should ownership of a computer be a prerequisite to obtaining a post-secondary education? I'm sure the vast majority of students have their own desktop or notebook, but the single parent working part-time and supporting two kids while trying to upgrade their credentials might not.
- speciality software (GIS, discipline-specific stuff for psychology courses, math courses, etc.) is pretty damned expensive, and typically has very restrictive licenses in terms of seat installations or concurrent users. Trying to get licensing that allows you to distribute to student PC is tough and expensive. And Microsoft is the biggest prick of them all; they hose you if you try to support virtual labs to give access even to Office applications, insisting that even if your virtual lab supports 50 concurrent users you must purchase a license for every student who could possibly use the service, which is typically in the 1000's.
We're starting to push users toward Open Office (we should have done it a long time ago I suppose, but version 3 is pretty sweet and a step up from previous version IMHO). But the FUD out there makes students hesitant - faculty telling them their work won't be accepted if it is created using anything other than Word, for example, with both the faculty and the student not realising that they are requiring a file format, not the use of a particular program.
Anyway, getting rid of student labs is a boon for Microsoft, and for hardware manufacturers, and hoses marginalised students, while adding yet another barrier to higher ed so that only snotty nosed kids whose parents are paying their way through school can afford to go to university.
Okay, that last part is a little over the top, but not so far - there's truth in there.
[17] Leary, T., White, C., Wood, P. R., Bhabha, W. D., and Wirth, N. Lambda calculus considered harmful. In Proceedings
I remember the campus computing labs being as valuable for nerd socializing (MUDs, netrek, etc) as for getting academic work done. Not to mention it was a pretty decent place to work, and the experience I gained managing a computer lab was more valuable as a job skill than just about anything else I got whilst at university.
It would be a shame for that aspect to be lost.
I use the campus computer labs because I can't afford $10,000 worth of software. And you can't beat the +50mbit connection.
don't be a fag, broski
he'll just pir8 the soft-warez,.
They should still offer the facilities.
Maybe not all the computers, but the desks and data ports and wifi and printers and access to student data storage.
They can cut out a huge expense and still provide the services necessary.
They're using their grammar skills there.
Something else to consider is whether you actually save money by *not* purchasing the laptop, in the time and gas spent going to/from the computer lab. Also, assuming the school does away the computer labs and the Technology Fee is removed (which is several hundred dollars per semester) a laptop may end up being cheaper.
You seem to be pulling these statements from some twisted preconceived notion of the classic 'spoiled rich kid' who may or may not actually exist, and then applying them indiscriminately to the entire university-going population.
Seriously, some people might behave like that, but I'd suggest (completely anecdotally, as in your posts) that most people would be very grateful to their parents for a $500-700 machine; it's not a huge amount of money to a lot of people and it's something that's likely to make the student's life more pleasant. As someone mentioned above, it's nice to have communications, entertainment and work all at your fingertips.
In one of your other posts you wrote off communication on the basis that you might not have net access in 100% of places, but you ignore the fact that it's damn useful in the 95% of places on campus that are covered. You also suggest spending $1000 on software is a necessity, with absolutely no explanation why, and then use it as if it's a valid argument. Basically I don't see what your problem with laptops is, because it seems very much like a preconceived notion with dubious arguments added to support it rather than a logical conclusion drawn from any actual experience or information.
It's a big assumption thinking students can connect to the campus network. I'm using Linux and we're "not allowed" on the network without windows.
classes....
Because gosh if you have to work to pay fees, rent, books, etc, already, what's another $700 on top of that?
Sheesh.
And the problem with that is?
The problem is when it's entertainment in place of studying. For instance, I've seen students use laptops for entertainment during lectures, and that was four years ago at least!
Sure, plenty of people can do just fine with OpenOffice, GIMP, and Linux. But should your child's professor be expected to know how to handle files that pass through those?
If the school wants to save money by not having computer labs, yes, they should make the professors know and use open-source software, and the professors in turn should make that software the required software for the class.
And if there is no open-source software for a particular task, the school should either buy every student a copy or have a lab.
(T>t && O(n)--) == sqrt(666)
gk2gk.com
some bad ideas just won't go away without further embarrassment?
Alternative open source solutions certainly have their place, but they're not always appropriate, particularly for courses that rely on audio, graphical or CAD software where knowledge and experience of a specific software package is often expected. Sure, it's fairly easy for a moderately competent user to switch from Word to Writer, and the mathematics doesn't change if you go from Matlab to Octave, but being expected to work with Photoshop at a high level if you've only been trained on Gimp would be surprisingly challenging.
Somebody sounds envious of those people using Facebook--you know, the people with friends and social interactions. Silly fucktard, you had your chance and you blew it.
I bought a new laptop for college. It cost about $1200. Why? Because I wanted more RAM, a discrete graphics card, a bigger hard disk, and a better screen. It isn't a Mac. There are plenty of reasons to buy a more expensive computer that morons like you don't quite grasp.
"You can either have software quality or you can have pointer arithmetic, but you cannot have both at the same time."
Whenever I go to my university's computer lab, it is always at least 1/2 to 3/4 full. And I usually see at least one person consulting the IT staff/student assistants each visit.
Hell, we even have about 5 computers set up in our residence lobby and there is normally always at least one person using them. Plus a row scattered in most building's study/food areas.
But without the computer labs how can the jocks round up all the nerds to beat the **** out of them?
What? They have keypunch machines and card readers in every dorm now?
I spent $1200 on a laptop because I wanted upgrades to run games, Photoshop, and Maya better. I didn't want a desktop because I like being able to move around my computer. I like being able to go actually collaborate with people (you know, that "social interaction" stuff that the basement-dwelling crowd around here can't help but sneer at) by grabbing a conference room and plugging in our laptops. Yeah, we could use computer labs, if we wanted to deal with the prospect of 20+ people in the lab at the same time and wanted to deal with not having all our shit on hand. And that's not just notes. I work better with music--I can't exactly download shit from my file server to play on the crippled computer lab machines, even assuming that the machines have the software I need. Having a laptop mitigates these issues and provides other benefits, like not having to carry around textbooks (because all of mine have online editions) and instant connectivity anywhere I might be (because my campus has a very comprehensive wireless network). And why the fuck should I take notes on paper when I type faster and can better keep up with the professor's lecture with a portable computer?
Anybody who makes a blanket assumption like "anyone who spends $1000 on a laptop for school is an idiot" is beyond idiocy.
"You can either have software quality or you can have pointer arithmetic, but you cannot have both at the same time."
Where I work (university department) we aren't getting rid of our labs, despite the budget cuts. We really couldn't even if we wanted to. In no small part this is because of software. We have a number of classes that use software that is licensed only for university systems. Sometimes it is licensed only for a select few systems in our department. Thus we can't say "Just use your own computer." We have to provide systems. I suppose in theory it could be terminal server computers or the like, but I don't know that would end up being any cheaper, it takes a fairly large and expensive server to support multiple people running an intense application.
At any rate I can see universities cutting back on labs, but I don't think they are going away any time soon. At least not where I work.
This idea is so mind-numbingly silly for anyone who has been through a serious CS major that it blows my mind.
Have you never done an operating systems course? Have you never had to mess with the internals of an OS and write modules for it? Have you never had a proper hands-on security course where you need to have uniformity across machines for the various teams involved? People can argue that virtualization solves this, because you can run vmware on any laptop, for instance. But for some things you need to have direct access to hardware, particularly hardware that you can mess with.
Plus, you need a place to eat. Where would your mess hall be? A friggin cafeteria? Pffft.
Agreed.
I really don't see why students should need laptops. I know some people like to type there notes, and I guess thats fine if they want to invest in laptop just to do that but; otherwise what is the point.
Its not like you need the portable in class, I hope while in class the the prof is lectureing or moderating some type of discussion otherwise why are you in class? If you are doing things "in class" that really require the computer somthing probably is not quite right...
Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
While larger schools may have incoming students with their own laptops, smaller community colleges and colleges with higher percentages of older/non-traditional students will still have need of the local campus computer lab. I attend a small local college of about 1,200 students, many of which are former GM employees. Our campus computer labs are almost always very busy with people typing papers up and so forth. Our campus even utilizes the computer labs for some creative writing and digital photography classes. It seems to me that your particular campus that is shutting down it's computer lab is not considering multiple uses for their labs. It may be they don't need it but still to me it seems as if they are under-servicing their students by not keeping such labs around.
Insert witty sig here.
Yeah, no, you're full of shit. LaTeX doesn't work on pieces of paper, and you don't become proficient with it from using it only when you trudge over to the computer lab (if it's even installed, there are some truly heathen institutions out there). For anyone whose field involves programming this effect is amplified, as the same is true of whatever programming languages they'll be using.
Personally, I don't own a laptop because I enjoy getting the most powerful hardware for my buck and making a tricked-out gaming desktop machine. I use the computer labs at my major state university all of the time to write papers and print documents when I feel like doing work on campus (I live in an off-campus apartment so going all the way home just to work on a paper isn't always feasible). Furthermore, I find it easier to stay on-task when I am working in a school computer lab. There's less distractions, like the water-pipe I keep near my desk at home and the copy of Crysis I have installed at home as well!
Computer labs are here to stay for a long, long time. This is just an anomaly. Nothing to see here.
I've seen students read books during lectures, sleep during lectures, play tic-tac-toe during lectures, write letters during lectures, SMS on their phones during lectures, flirt with each other during lectures, do work for unrelated classes during lectures, and so on.
Adding a laptop to the mix isn't going to change much.
Lastly, you can't drink beer in school labs. Fuck that :-D
Maybe not where you went to school. In our math department computer lab (6 Red Hat workstations), we had a mini fridge with at least a sixer in it at all times, with a cup on top for beer money. Ah, college.
in courses i took in the 90s, students submitted assignments on floppys. and technology has advanced a great deal since those early days.
if people are still submitting anything on paper, the universities need to educate the profs.
if you can afford university you can afford a computer. since 1996, 100% of students at acadia university in canada have had laptops.
http://www.acadiau.ca/advantage/
1) When the software is on the lab computers, uniformity of environment and correctness of the install are something I can count on. Since I always test my assignments on lab machines before I give 'em out, I know there's no problem when I walk into class, because if something didn't work I already had words with the lab staff and got it fixed.
2) If something doesn't work in the lab, it's the lab staff's full time job to make it right. I'm there to teach the students the course content, not as their first line of defense in software support. If something doesn't work on a student's machine, one or more of the student, the class, or me gets hosed and there's very little I can do ahead of time to avoid the issue. If I try to fix it right there in the lab, I open a can of worms. If I change anything in their setup I may be hosing some other piece of software they count on. Meanwhile the rest of the class are twiddling their collective thumbs. If I don't try to fix it, that student gets left in the dust and will almost certainly require one-on-one tutoring later to catch up. On top of that, I'm perceived as unhelpful and unknowledgeable and the student evaluations ream me.
I'll take the campus labs over personally owned student machines, thank you.
Indeed it is easy - a laptop is available to my (hypothetical) child 24/7 wherever on campus they need or want to use it. It's entertainment, communications, education, etc... etc... in one compact package.
It's a bargain at twice the price.
GET OFF MY LAWN!!
So really not a big deal over a 4 year degree.
if every student had a 'writing tablet' the "computer ;lab" would employ maintenence to support and encourage the exercuising of said decive...thus capitalizing on mobile tabu=liture as a gateway for compressed source coding/ common (speak) knowledge, and thus a means to tele-commun/icate to experience a cross parallel exposure to a multi-facited dimension...
a computer lab (rat ory) supposes trials, methodological [guided] outcomes, and (p)fantastical (*dreamlyken) rendered possibilities...for supporting uses & facilitating applications
a computer lab should build "mother board"s, et al,
and explain the processes for communication for memory plugs and exchange between other systems...
a computer lab should be like a bike shop at a college
KB rev Alvarezx
RIP university computer labs. I had my own PC back in 1991 but the lab machines were faster, better, more colours (more than green) and had a mouse. I don't think any actual coursework was done on them though.
Pro Coffee Drinker
Disclaimer: I work for a large university computer lab.
Three things keep labs open around here.
First of all, nobody wants to spend a ridiculous amount of money on software that the labs already have. Sure, -some- people will still pirate Office and Adobe, but we also provide support for people having problems with software. In addition we provide EVERY piece of software needed by any class at the University. Convenience still weighs heavily on the average student's mind.
Second of all, printing is a HUGE factor. Nobody buys a printer. And if they do, they forget to buy paper or ink. Having a centralized location they can always go to with printing available is one of the major factors that keeps our doors open. We've recently rolled out wireless printing too, and the students and staff love it. And once they come in the doors to get their documents they generally find something to do and sit down to do it.
Third, we provide a nice quiet environment to get work done. You really can't find that elsewhere on campus. We've also started transitioning from the "Pack as many computers in a room as possible" model to a "Collaborative Study/Workgroup" model, which students are loving. This involves switching from rectangular desks with 2 people per desk to circular desks with 5 or so people sitting at it, all facing each other.
Labs DO need to start offering more to students though - or their usefulness will decline to the point of no longer being necessary.
If you were offended by anything I said... No, I'm not sorry. Please lighten up.
As much of a shame as it is, it's definitely an understandable cutback. But even so, what about the classes that would need hardware to teach a class about specific hardware? Are we going to lose that too? All I'm using nowadays is my netbook, I'm thinkin' I'll need something stronger than this to work on high-end stuff!
what about specialized software only available on department PCs? many classes focus on learning this exact software. Most students arent going to purchase aspen engineering suite or matlab even with a student discount (even if there is one available). Department computer labs are here to stay.
...with Matlab, Mathematica, Multisim and AutoCAD on it?
rj
You spent $1200 on a laptop for much more than school. Anyone who spends $1000 on a laptop for school is indeed an idiot. Even if you have to have a laptop, a laptop which is sufficient for school costs less than $500 new. Or get a netbook and a 24" TFT. Or just a desktop if you really need some oomph. All of these options cost significantly less than $1000.
The cheapest netbook costs only about 2 1/2 textbooks. They weigh less too. I actually bought an eee 701 for my course and I've only seen 2 others on the whole campus, everyone else has much more expensive back breakers.
The computers at the labs are locked down so badly that they always forget any settings and our C++ compiler was only 95% installed so we have to perform the final 3 installation steps every single time we go to C++ lab.
In PHP lab we're supposed to edit files in WinXP then WinSCP the files to the Uni's linux server then futz about with permissions, whereas my laptop has both apache and PHP installed, so I can edit the files in-place.
$1000 on a laptop? for a student? Umm, no you shouldn't need to spend more than $400.... buy an eeepc, it's good for everything a student SHOULD need... If ergonomics are a concern, throw in an extra $200 for a decent sized monitor, keyboard, and mouse.
If your study area is really just a training course for package FooBar then that's not what I'd call an education. Principles learnt from Gimp can be applied in Photoshop, even if the way of scripting multiple actions into a macro are widely different. College should be about understanding the principles of the practice.
I was raised on UVA computer labs. This is a sad day.
UVA requires every student to buy a laptop. This post implies that only 4 students showed up without laptops by chance... Yeah right. They forgot to mention those students are breaking the rules.
Also, especially in the engineering school, there is a long list of windows programs that you must have. Expensive and obscure software.
Need a laptop? Need the software? UVA's computer store will gladly SELL you one. Hmmm....
UVA has 100% coverage for low income students. Best financial aid in the country. So they'd have to BUY laptops for these students along with the housing and food they're already buying them.
This is very similar to what they started doing to some of the "private" program-specific labs at U Waterloo when I was there ('01-06). The Soft Eng lab had about 10 large desks with power & wired/wireless networking, and 4 desktops "just in case".
Abandoning computer labs would require convincing the suppliers of all the software used for teaching/projects to let students install it on thier personal machines.
I get the distinct impression that would be very difficult at least for the department i'm in (EEE at the university of manchester in the UK). Also student laptop ownership/use seems lower over here than in the USA.
note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
Or they could help fund work on BRL-CAD to make it into a viable alternative.
What if someone can afford tuition, but can't afford a laptop/desktop?
What if someone can afford tuition, but can't afford textbooks? At this point, buying a PC and keeping it for four years costs less than $150 per semester.
Spend $750 on a desktop and you've got a pretty stonking nice bit of computational power at your disposal for games and such. Probably way better than your $1200 laptop.
Spend $250 on a Thinkpad from the IBM days, and you've got all the benefits of a laptop.
Plus you've saved $200.
I'm sure this will come off as hokey and nostalgic, but put me firmly in the "bad idea" camp. I earned my BSEE 10 years ago now, and my hours in the engineering department's lab were some of the most memorable and useful of my undergrad years. They taught me how to work informally with my colleagues, bouncing ideas off of each other and helping each other out. They taught me the value of learning from the mistakes and successes of others, and how engineers truly work as a team, far better than any contrived design project could. They taught me the value of peer review far better than any "formal" design review could. I see the same spirit in the cubicle farm I inhabit in industry, or when a group of my co-workers and I sit down to lunch, that I saw in the lab with my classmates working feverishly on our lab reports at 2:00 in the morning on a Saturday in the engineering lab.
I think collaborative spaces are a good start, but there's still a place for big-iron workstations with large monitors that make it easy to point out things to your friends. As many other posters have pointed out, there's also the issue of tens (if not hundreds) of thousands of dollars of software licenses that in many cases aren't reasonable or appropriate to expect a student to have on his or her personal machine. It's far easier to secure a grant or donation to equip a lab with software than it is to procure a whole slew of student licenses.
I wholeheartedly agree with parent's points about the economies of scale, and of the need to level the field for disadvantaged students. I'd also like to argue that besides the technological benefits of computer labs, students as a whole gain from a common space in which to interact with their peers. The quad and the lunch hall are great, but when others are nearby, in a work environment, it's really easy to instantly ask questions and get feedback. In fact this may be as close as a university setting can get that of an open, collaborative workplace.
I don't expect a campus computer lab to have the $599 desktops students have.
I expect it to have a decent beowulf cluster. This should be used both for CS research on computing clusters; as well as engineering simulations that are impractical on desktops. And perhaps the lab should have a scale-up supercomputer as well - so that their students can learn what's the better tool for what kids of jobs.
Phones provide adequate communication. You're at a college FOR the education. If you could get an education from a laptop you wouldn't need the school.
All that's left on your list is entertainment - meaning you think of the laptop as a toy and justify its purchase with buzzwords.
You're an MBA major, right?
I remember at my university, going back to the 90's now, they announced a new "laptop area" in the library. I duly arrived with my PIII laptop, only to find nowhere to plug it in. "You can't charge your laptop here" said the librarian, "we don't allow anything to be plugged in that hasn't been PAT tested by a university technician". "Oh, and there's no network access because of viruses". "So basically, the laptop area is a table with a 'laptop area' sign above it then?" I said. "I suppose so, oh and please turn your laptops speaker off"
On another note, what about practical lessons? Expecting your students to have laptops is one thing, expecting them to buy licences for software like 3D Studio Max, for example, is another. Sure students will pirate, but can a university turn a blind eye if it's a requirement of the course, rather than just something the students trade with each other outside of the classroom?
I use the computer lab to keep my immune system strong.
ignore the sticky keys...ignore the sticky keys...ignore the sticky keys...omg what's with the slimy ones??!
From TFA:
"According to the school's Information Technology & Communication department, 3,117 freshmen enrolled in 2007, and 3,113 of them owned their own computer. Nearly all of the machines were laptops, with 72 percent running Windows and 26 percent running Mac OS X (six hardy souls ran Linux)."
Looks like Linux is taking over among students too! Yay!
Computer Science student. Unplug the monitor of the PC i'm sitting at and plug my laptop into every lab. Connect via wireless. Most of my work/study is done in the university library - group study rooms have ample power points and often not many people, so i sit in there with friends and work. Don't often need to print but i have a printer at home; AFAIK the university has no documented means of printing wireless-ly.
As an admin of computer labs, I both welcome and dread the day that the computer lab becomes extinct.
First off, I welcome the end of it because then my department no longer has to be for capital funds or pry lab fees out of someone's hands in order to get new equipment that would suffice for the applications used.
Also the headache of constantly tweaking Active Directory and monitoring home directories for "forbidden filetypes" would be a thing of the past. I could easily reduce the amount of servers by half overnight. When all you need is DNS and DHCP, why would I need to keep all of those file servers and AD servers running?
I could also get much more fluent in IOS since we are a Cisco campus and the Cisco devices would be the one's that require my energy.
Secondly, I dread the day when computer labs are a thing of the past. I would hate to have a line of 20 or so students standing outside my office with laptops in hand that are barely able to run XP, let alone whatever resource-hungry application that they need help installing. What a nightmare that would be.
Also, I would be constantly bothered by students who don't know how to set-up the communal printers (if those still exist). I see students all the time who barely know where the on button is, let alone what a PCL-6 driver is.
Lastly, I think I would miss the old (current) way of business. I can interact with students and meet new people while offering my help instead of it being expected of me. Sure the current set-up has it's drawbacks; but the extinction of computer labs relegates my admin job to more of a helldesk position.
The game.
I know I had an electric typewriter, that was pretty sexy hardware for 1978. Nobody had email, that much I'm sure of. Some of my friends went to Carnegie Mellon, which was considered to be in the forefront, and I think they had to submit their papers electronically, or at least, they did use the comp lab, I remember that much. ... feel ... old ...
Ironic, considering the context of this article, but I have a laptop that I schlep with me most every day, yet I still end up using the desktop labs when I can (before, between & after classes).
I just find the desktop form factor (keyboard & screen angle and real mice come to mind) easier to work with.
Campus computer labs seem to have top-quality hardware - nice to use, even if you aren't doing anything out of the ordinary. I bet that campus lab computers have better specs than many other student-owned laptops as well
The laptop is still useful when I'm in lecture room and *can't* be in the computer labs; that's why I bring it. (part taking notes, part stress-relieving/time-killing with websurfing/games)
Different tools/toys for different circumstances, really
I listen to both RIAA and non-RIAA stuff if I like the music, tangential business/politics nonwithstanding.
I am a PC Technician for a local Junior College. I can guarantee that if we closed down our computer labs our school attendance would drop considerably. Yes students have laptops these days but they should not be required to use their personal laptops for coursework. Our computer labs have all of the software that would be necessary to complete any course at the college. If there is a course that requires Matlab or a course that requires Adobe CS4, the programs are available on a computer that meets or most often exceeds the requirements for that particular program. Most laptops that students have today are not meant for running rigorous Matlab code or rendering 3D models in Autocad. Many Colleges and Universities have their priorities totally messed up. They constantly upgrade their Faculty members computers to "keep them happy" when all the faculty does is use a spreadsheet for grade books and check e-mail. If you want to cut costs stop brown nosing your faculty and put that extra money into your students. This will probably raise your attendance anyways and therefore generate more income from tuition. We offer many labs at multiple locations across our campus and we continue to upgrade our labs to keep up with the latest technology. Our labs are currently being upgraded to Dell Optiplex 760's w 4 GB of ram, while we still have faculty members running on GX 280's. We value the students at our campus and removing computer labs to cut costs is terrible. It clearly shows the lack of concern or value of student life.
It's worth pointing out that this is not the "death of the campus computer lab". While ITC, UVa's university-wide information technology department, is going to be removing public computer labs, individual schools will still host their own school-specific computer labs. For instance, the McIntire School of Commerce will continue running four student labs for various important reasons that appear to be overlooked in Slashdot's summary. Here's a couple that came to mind in the brief five minutes' thought I gave this, so if anything turns out to be retarded, sorry:
1) Software: The school makes use of significant amounts of financial and otherwise business-oriented software which would simply be too burdensome for students to be responsible for purchasing and setting up themselves. It seems that this must be the case for other schools such as engineering and computer science.
2) Teaching Space: Labs are commonly used by professors in teaching classes which require technology-specific instruction or classwork which requires that users be capable of networking with one another over the local area network, such as trading simulation software.
3) Excuse Prevention: Students currently have access to virus and malware free computers 24/7. They cannot claim to be unable to complete their classwork due to personal computer failure. Not only is all of the necessary software accessable 24/7, but their data is capable of being stored on school network drives (which are accessable by the students from home) as well.
4) Reduction of IT Overhead: If students are required to make use of their home computers for their classwork, it seems as though the school will inevitably be required to service these home computers. This may be easily done for students who simply use Microsoft Office on Windows machines, but when school specific software is involved (and if anyone here has been in IT support for a business school, for example, they know all about the quality of business software out there...) it could quickly become a nightmare.
If they're going to take out computer labs, I want my technology fee back. In fact, since most places also add the cost of the technology to the tuition as well, I trust they'll have no problem lowering tuition accordingly?
I've been in places where there's a line for the computer lab. Its not pretty when your next class is in an hour and all you have to do is print one document, but the people currently IN the computer lab are mostly watching youtube videos or are just starting their papers..
Job? I don't have time to get a job! Who will sit around and bitch about being broke and unemployed then?
Although laptop purchases are popular with college entry, some students at my school choose to bring their Desktops from home. I for one cannot stand using a congested, underpowered laptop. Here at Worcester Polytechnic Institute in MA, there are many computer labs and they are always full. Why? Because a lot of students like the option of using a desktop computer over a laptop. Also, if I have my desktop set up off-campus, it's nice to have an option to use computers while on-campus. Additionally, the school maintains expensive software that would otherwise be difficult to acquire and maintain on a personal computer, such as National Instrument software like Multisim, PSPICE, CAD (AutoCAD, SolidWorks,PRO-E), Adobe CS, MATLAB, Maple, Mathcad, Mathematica, and a plethora of other educational engineering software. I don't know about non-technical schools, but here at a tech school, PC labs are running strong and will continue that way for years to come.
Could the "we need software package XYZ" issue be addressed by putting up Terminal Servers or Citrix?
Buy a lot of printers and have lots of wireless access points and some sort of central authority so printing is not abused.
Reduce the total number of computer labs drastically, but keep some around for students smart enough to waste their money on such a bad investment as a PC.
Refurnish some closed labs with comfy furniture, lots of AC outlets. Have paid staff and students available to assist when needed.
What do you think? Better way to spend this money?
I've seen the usage logs on these labs and it's 98% iExplore and WinWord. Open web mail to get the assignment you prepared and print it, then off to class. It seems pretty wasteful and we're sticking to this old model because of inertia.
Hahahahaahahahah! Oh noes! One University is thinking of removing their computer labs out of the thousands and thousands around the world... of course after reading the dramatic title I thought....kdawson.
At our University lab computers are everywhere they are in hallways (No seats, requires standing up) in Cafe's, outside of toliets, they are everywhere except for in the weather.
They are easier to maintain because everything is exactly the same, laptops are not. There are many laptops with just as many if not more configurations. I bet you'll find trying to get all these platforms working nicely with all your software and networking will cost more than the computer labs... unless you have a simple setup which in the case simply means your Computer Labs were rubbish in the first place.
Typical kdawson garbage
Use my OWN computer to do school work? Do you know what school's want you to USE to make spreadsheets? WINDOWS! Do you KNOW WHAT THAT IS?!?!
Way back before the PC era, I had to take a computer course. We had to type a paper for the course on the computer. This was 1982.
The people at the lab were useless. They did NOT want you anywhere near their computer. Pretty much you had the professor's handouts but you were on your own with a mainframe system.
Needless to say it sucked hugely, and put myself and others off "computers" for while.
Later, I got a Mac 512, etc etc and it was a lot better. The Trogs in the Computer lab were everything that one imagines about a Guild, or Secret Society.
I remember Plato fondly. I gave me my first access to networked games. And now what do we have, baaa.
And get off my lawn!
Where else are you going to find paper tape and Hollerith card punches?
Kilgore, "smell that? You smell that?"
Lance, "what?"
Kilgore, "punched paper, son. Nothing else in the world smells like that. I love the smell of punch cards in the morning. You know, one time we had a backup bomb, for twelve 3380 disc arrays. When it was all over, I walked up. We didn't find one of 'em, not one stinkin' dink file. The smell, you know that paper smell, the whole machine. Smelled like (sniffing, pondering] VTOC corruption."
I don't like the idea of taking away the computer labs and relying on students to bring their own laptops. It's only a very small step from that, to a regime where the university begins dictating very specific requirements about what hardware and software the student is required to have. For starters, the university is probably going to dictate what operating system is being used (no bonus points for guessing it's going to be an operating system sold by a monopolist from the Pacific Northwest who recently made a large "donation" to the uni for influencing that decision). Pretty soon they're also dictating that the uni's custom suite of security programs are loaded, and other things. At the end of the day it's no longer the student's own computer -- it's a locked-down university computer that the student (or his parents) paid for. No thanks.
Tired of FB/Google censorship? Visit UNCENSORED!
It was important that the printer that frustrated Mr. Stallman was a resource shared by many people.
What seems to be a weakness at first glance might turns out to be a strength. Sharing facilitates social and technical interaction, strengthens the practice of etiquette, and provides opportunities for feedback on new ideas.
But you're splitting hairs.
Looking at Dell's site right now, I see a very decent laptop available for $549 (Canadian). That's really a very small cost in comparison to others that students face.
Suppose I was to go back to ISU, and do the whole resident hall thing. I'd want to take just one machine along, because those resident hall rooms aren't that big. I'd want to take "mideel", which runs YDL 6.1, and yes it's a PS3. It's got OpenOffice after all, and it's probably pretty secure from a virus/worm/trojan/exploit standpoint, so I wouldn't have to worry about "catching" something from the other students machines on the network. In all likelihood it's probably much more secure than the Windows boxes usually connected to university resnets. But there's no way on god's green earth that it could run McAfee or ePolicy Orchestrator (whatever that is). So if they strictly interpreted the requirment, they would refuse to let mideel connect.
They might not even let a less unusual x86 Linux box connect, though at least those folks could dual boot into Windows.
If they want to take away labs, maybe they should, being essentially an ISP for students, make certain their policies are OS/hardware agnostic.
your hypothetical child better be very far in the future or a mistake, 'cause you obviously have some growing up to do
If parents actually cared about the cost-effectiveness of education they'd be sending their kids to some community college with the kids living at home. Then they might finish up in a small state-funded college for a few thousand dollars a year.
College is as much a badge of honor for the parents as the student. Buying expensive toys for the kids makes them feel like they're doing something important.
Nevertheless i was going to the University for a few reasons:
a) The Monitors have been black and white (SUN), but 21 inch, which was expensive ten years ago.
b) The Network is faster
c) my files were safely stored on the university fileserver, with automated daily backups
d) if the machines had problems (happened seldom) somebody fixed it for me
e) different printers
f) good scanners
g) always people around to make a coffee-break
h) 100meter besides the library, in case you need to look something up.
i) close to lecture halls, in case you want to visit a lecture.
j) when you go home, you go home. i am *sure* i would fail studies today because of this lack of separation. Mixing up your studies to much with your personal life is not good.
This all motivated me *NOT* to upgrade my own computer hardware during my whole studies. It was just more convenient and i could focus more on programming and studying by working in the computer pool. only problem was the sound in some of the rooms.
This is ironic, because the reason I haven't bought a notebook yet is that the computer labs on campus are so convenient.
I used the computer lab when I was in college since my desktop was at home and I didn't feel like getting a laptop. Also it was in the 90's. Why would I want to use the 386 (later a pentium 75 overclocked to the massive 90mhz beast) I had at home (commuter) when they had a lab full of the latest SGI workstations? Plus the SGI lab was where all the cool ... err dorky people hung out.
Anyway, if they have no lab then not only would you have to buy a laptop but also a printer. And what happens when your laptop dies a week before your big paper is due? What if you want to print another copy out while you are at school? And how expensive is it really to just have a small room full of old PCs. I guess you might have to have some system administration but that is what graduate students are for.
I study in an IT engineering school, where we often have projects over several weeks, and also programming exams.
All the computers run on FreeBSD, which is the OS the school chose, so every project we hand in must run properly on any school computer. Of course we could all install FreeBSD on our laptops, but it's mainly made so that we are used to either code at school or use SSH. Teachers pointed out this was great to make us work on compatibility.
This also allows teacher to book a room for an exam, and set the whole room in exam mode, which disables a lot of stuff (like network), make a brand new user for every student, and basically gives them : a xterm with usual tools (grep etc.), gcc, vi/emacs, a PDF viewer for the subject and a clock that closes the session.
Oh and computer lab is fun for everything like ssh'ing to every computer in the room and play a wav file, these would be things I'd miss if we didn't have labs.
That and having a few hundred geeks, who didn't have time to have a shower for days because of their project, in a room kept at 90 degrees (that's only when winter helps cooling the room).
Of course, when I was in the lab using a DEC PDP-11, it wasn't THAT outdated...
In our university, the computer lab division consist of 200+ student employees, working an average of 15 hours per week. In order for a university to eligible for Federal Work-Study funds, there must be at least a certain percentage of students working on campus.
That is how we pay for our tuition, without the problem (especially scheduling and commuting problem) associated with an off-campus job.
New Economic Perspectives
In my last job I worked for the state. We had public computers in the state library, the public information division, and in the elections division.
First we just put Ubuntu on all the public computers. Then we decided to reduce the number (1 per office) and instead throw WAPs in place. I did insist that we bandwidth throttle so we built Linux based routers that restricted the inet port bandwidth to 384kbps. No porn watching! Also had Dan's Guardian and Squid Proxy running too.
Asked a girl out for a first date while working a shift as the lab assistant. Incredibly, she said yes.
And the date didn't go altogether bad (married 12 years with three kids.)
I second your cynicism.
I remember my university computer experience fondly
Hours spent playing diablo, Xwing-Tie and other old school goodness (on a LAN no less.... 8Meg downloads at midnight... this is before the millenium) : I lost track
Hours spent doing real work: maybe 20 a year. OK I exaggerate but you get the picture.
And this was BEFORE or just as mp3s were coming in and hard drives got to the capacity where it was feasible to store more than a handful of albums. Yes downsampling e.g. 160k to 96k to save space was actually a dilemma at this stage.
Though I didn't do computer science or anything related, I would think it would have been a real pain to do any hi tech course without your own setup. But it would have been fully possible, just more hassle (travel, less than optimum setup, all the attendant hassles of shared facilities etc.)
and because students can not always afford to keep their computers in working order (especially if their computer has a hardware problem), they need access to college maintained computers as a temporary backup should their personal computer fail. Even 12 hours without access to a working computer could be disastrous if it's the wrong 12 hours. All students having computers, and all students having working computers all the time are different things.
We're obviously just as interested as the next school in saving money, but there's an obvious need for us to provide resources that the students wouldn't otherwise be able to afford. we're currently implementing a desktop virtualization strategy using VMWare's VDI solution in order to drive down our hardware costs. the current plan is to run the existing desktops into the ground, and replace them with thin clients as they expire. the extra flexibility this affords us is really compelling.
obviously, I wasn't present for the discussions at UVa, but this does strike me as being rather ill considered. As expensive as tuition is at large, prestigious places like that, passing a (possibly enormous) extra cost directly on to the students like that seems more than a little petty.
This has some serious drawbacks IMHO. For one, when I was in college (5 years ago) most every student had a computer then too, but it was not at all uncommon for the student's computer to get messed up to the point that they couldn't use it. Many students relied on the computer lab during those times while either a friend or a shop fixed their computer.
Also important was the fact that the computer lab had licensed versions of any software needed for any class. I remember needing MATLAB and Visual Studio for various classes back then, and I certainly didn't have the licenses for them. My friend in was was an engineering major was in a similar position concerning AutoCAD. If it hadn't been for the computer lab I'd have probably turned to piracy for those software programs.
"People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
I run a computer lab at the University of Washington. There's a few reasons why computer labs won't go away soon for us:
1) Expensive software - if we did away with labs students would have to buy software such as SPSS, and they would need it only for a few classes. We don't think its reasonable to expect students to incur this added expense.
2) Specialized hardware - Our video editing suites will always require video editing hardware and DVD/Blu-Ray readers and burners, and having nice scanners and color printing is an added incentive to come in to the lab.
We do make allowances for students with laptops though. I've made spaces for laptops where I've added power strips and networking points for those that don't use the 802 network. We're also looking at adding groupware to our lab to make it easier for groups to work and collaborate.
We also run our help desk out of a lab and we'll help students with their laptop issues. We allow students to come and eat and relax in this lab too. We've found that this atmosphere encourages students to come back to a lab environment.
Many posters above assume that computers are no longer necessary for the original purpose (giving students shared access to tools they can't afford to own). That's still the case outside of most universities. At the community college where I teach, almost none of the students have laptops, and many don't have PCs at home. If these students don't get access to computers at school, they don't get access to computers at all. Every semester I meet students who don't have email accounts, who don't know how to retrieve assignments from the web, who can't use a word processor. Even when students with limited income transfer to university, they may lack the resources to purchase their own computers. For many students, a $180 Calculus book is a burden, even with financial aid; few colleges will subsidize purchase of a personal computer. Thus, it would be a mistake to close the labs.
..So does this mean the technology access fees are going to go down in schools, if they don't have to maintain these computer labs?
I doubt it!
I don't moderate anymore. Karma penalty for 90% fair mods? Can I mod that unfair?
Is any software still licensed per lab? Does it make sense to complain that without clusters, they're forcing students to buy lots of ridiculously expensive software? Or with this transformation, does software now get site-licensed for all students?
I'm also worried that without campus clusters, there will be no more introduction to tools and environments with which the students are not already familiar (the most glaring of many examples is that I didn't see Unix until I got to college). Exposure to different environments might be useful... or is it?
"The biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place."
Computers on my campus are still in high demand. You can find lines of people waiting for a machine to free up in any one of our computer labs.
I work for the college of engineering at a major university. Others have mentioned software issues, which are absolutely correct for us as well. The issue I'd like to mention is the fact that most consumer boxes are so poorly configured by the vendor, then further fucked by the owner with spyware, crapware, bullshit tunes, etc, etc,etc, that the machine often isn't stable enough to run half the engineering applications.
We don't have the time to fix every moron's HP vomitbox running Vista (We banned Vista on our Domain due to massive software incompatibility and overall piss poor video /I.O. / and network performance vs XP). Programs like Labview, Autocad, and Arcgis are buggy pieces of shit as it is. Put them on an unstable system, and its just not going to fly.
Maybe for the business school they could get away with having no labs, as the only thing they ever use is M$ office. But for us and probably the CS guys, there are going to be dedicated labs for some years to come.
Lawyers, MBA's, RIAA? A jedi fears not these things!
Its a shame this post wasn't directed as a question. My former school, the University of North Dakota, is going to ditch labs for Citrix. I've been against it but I can never really seem to describe why it just seems intrinsically wrong.
forget it.
When I was in college, laptops were too expensive and slow. But the real reason to have the labs (besides the shared space) is the fact that the computers there are guaranteed to be working, have the correct software (and correct licenses) on them, and that they free you from having to carry anything (provided that the campus is large enough and the labs are everywhere...as was the case in my school).
(Occasionally I'd use the telnet-only library search computers to work on my CS homework in secluded corners of the library--some of the most productive times I've ever had...but I date myself)
wahoowa
Meanwhile, MS, Adobe, etc are SHITTING themselves at the thought of every university student buying a copy of their software instead of sharing a copy in the labs. Truly a windfall for software companies.
even back in 1997, was apparently the thing to do for overseas students. I remember being perplexed as to why the lab was so slow when I had heard there were dual oc3 pipes coming into the place.
I was sitting at the back so I had a quick look around and I noticed 99% of the computers were taken up by an asian student all independently streaming the same TV show..
I don't know what the quality rate was, because it appeared to be a asian drama/movie, but whatever it was times about 50 machines would be enough to choke most connections.
Especially since this was one of on about half a dozen labs.
It certainly wasn't collaborative or someone would have gotten them some headphone splitters..
Silly fucktard, you had your chance and you blew it.
Please come back when you've grown up.
Until you can provision the university desktop and licensed software through VDI, it isn't really feasible to get rid of the computer lab. Too many software licenses are written insisting that the computer be university-owned. That is the primary function of labs today--a delivery point for institutionally-licensed software. If I can double-click the college VDI client and be using the institutionally licensed software and printing to university-provided printers, then I don't need a computer lab.
Those labs do cost money, and if you spread the cost among the vanishing handful of students who still need them I'd imagine the cost is a fair bit higher than $700/head.
And there won't be any software costs. That $700 would include the windows tax if that's what you want. As for anything else, even if you have some antiquated objection to piracy there are free software alternatives to most everything and any real university will have arranged for a campus license for anything they require at a token cost.
Unless you're in some European paradise, you certainly will be paying tuition. You may get student loans or scholarships, but you're still paying it.
As a current student and teaching assistant at a university computer science department, I see several benefits to having computer labs, including two really big ones.
First, almost all of our courses from the sophomore level on up require development in Linux. Many students use Linux on their personal machines, but many more do not. Most of the students have absolutely no experience with Linux or a command line at all prior to taking their first course that requires it. If a prerequisite to these courses was that you first install Linux on your own computer, I bet that would scare away a bunch of students, especially non-majors who just want to take a couple of courses to help them better understand computing to help their work in other fields.
A second, related benefit to having labs is that you can have a standardized set of development tools. We tell students that they are welcome to use their own computers to complete assignments. However, we will test their programs on a university lab computer, and they should do the same before turning their code in so that they know it will build and run properly during grading.
Most of these problems could be mitigated to a certain extent by providing free use of a standardized Linux VM image, but I for one would rather avoid doing large projects inside an instance of VMWare.
The advantage of a laptop is that it is portable. This makes it possible to bring it down to a common area and have multiple people watching what is on the screen.
Inventions have long since reached their limit, and I see no hope for further development.-- Frontinus, 1st cent. AD
Our university has a computer lab in almost every major section (engineering building, library and even the music library...etc.) and having access to that is one of the nicest things when moving about campus. I am on linux and it is nice to be able to use OS X, xp, vista (or not...) and different flavors of linux whenever and wherever i want. Additionally, all of the software specific to these operating systems and locations is accessible without me having to run a VM and pirate everything... Additionally, If I have a long day I don't want to rely on my battery and many times just dont want to carry my computer all around especially considering I don't have a solid state drive. It is understandable that universities don't want to operate computer labs for cost and energy consumption but I can't stress enough how much I have valued them so far in my college experience.
There is many many courses using expensive software, how does a laptop for each student solve this?
Office, Matlab, various cad and 3d packages, image editing, dtp etc.
The list is very long, and you can replace them with free software. But a a lot of software don't have a viable alternative in the free software realm or is a de facto standard.
- To understand recursion, we must first understand recursion -
So you got your undergrad degree when you were 28?
That means that at 28, you're making the average salary of a 23 year old. And when you're 40, you'll be at the average salary of a 35 year old. On top of that, when you're 65, you'll be running on 37 years of savings instead of 42. And if you get married and have children in your 30's, you'll have missed out out on the first 5 years - the most important ones - both because your savings have the longest time to grow AND you can save a lot more of your income when you're single than when supporting a family.
A college degree makes you more productive. Delaying that degree makes you more productive later. This makes no sense.
Plus, it's not like you knew how to live like an adult when you graduated high school either. You just didn't learn how to be an adult AND take classes at the same time - so while everyone else pounded that out in 4-5 years, it took you a decade.
Anyway you cut it, your way is just slow.
paintball
After jailbreaking, I can ssh into my iPod, write a program in vim, and compile it using gcc.
But what college would endorse jailbreaking under the threat of a visit from Apple's lawyers?
Personal printers are horribly unreliable and very expensive to maintain.
You can get a laser printer reliable enough to run a small business for under $200 these days. Cost of consumables per page is around $0.03-$0.10 depending on the specific make/model. Color laser printers are even available just just a few hundred more. I got a $3000 office laser printer for $250 off eBay which can print 20,000 pages on a single toner cartridge. I've had to buy toner once in the last 5 years.
Anyone who buys an inkjet anymore for any purpose besides printing photos deserves to be hit with a cluebat. I'm astonished anyone is still stupid enough to buy one.
Someone who lives off campus isn't going to want to cart their notebook around everyplace they go
Why not? I did. You're going to be taking a bag anyway so what's the big deal about throwing a laptop in? The whole thing weighs maybe 4-6 pounds. Plus I don't get what living off campus has to do with it.
I know from experience that it's a lot easier to get work done in a distraction-free computer lab,
There is this place called a library. Perhaps you've heard of it? There also is this nifty feature of most college campuses called empty classrooms. Try one sometime.
compared to a noisy dorm room.
I thought you were complaining about living off campus. Make up your mind.
I went to UVA back in the 90's, and even then, there were two groups of computer users:
1) Generic computing...people who just needed e-mail, web, word processing, etc. In this case, I can see that labs aren't really needed.
2) Engineers. 'Nuff said. I worked many assignments on Sun workstations tied to NFS mounts. You can't exactly have Solaris running on a laptop...well...you can, but engineers use different types of applications on different types of operating systems.
Even when I was at UVA from '95 to '99, I saw that the general purpose labs were somewhat deserted (more towards '97 and '98) and the engineering lags (e.g. the Stacks in Thornton) were always packed to capacity. There are other labs like the Unix lab in Small and and other specialty labs like a small Unix lab in the basement of Thornton E wing for the EE students that I'm sure are in heavy use, today. You can't shut these specialty labs down. They shouldn't even shut down the Stacks, as they have lab sessions for first year students in there.
Now, ITC did discuss delivery platforms. I suspect what they will do is similar to what my company does for VPN access. They will likely deploy a CITRIX / remote desktop like setup that will provide client access to servers containing specialty apps, general apps, and even operating systems with specialty apps. This setup can be delivered via JAVA, so it is operating system independent. Printers will still exist, and targeted specialty labs will still exist. The content is going towards server farms, instead.
As a student who works for the company at my University that runs the campus computer labs, I have to point out that every day the labs are always full. 99% of the students at my university have their own computers, but all the labs are still always full. Often students want a clean-running computer to type a paper and print. These days, students' computers are ridden with malware, spyware, and viruses and most students don't know how to remove them. Instead of running a thorough scan or reformatting their computer, its often easier just to go down the street to a campus lab. My roommate refuses to type papers on his laptop, he says he can only focus in computer labs. That's also not to mention that the campus computers often have thousand dollar software that students need for a specific class, but would never consider buying.
The day my University takes away its computer labs, it will have a massive protest on its hands. Computer labs are an invaluable component of a 21st century education.
Are you going to buy me a Wifi modem for my laptop, Mr. Silver Spoon?
No. You can do it yourself for the back breaking price of $10. Never mind that even the cheapest laptops have wifi built in these days so the wifi adaptor would likely be redundant.
For that matter, are you going to buy me a laptop?
Nope. You'll have to do what I did and take out school loans to buy one. Then you pay for it once you are out of college and gainfully employed. If the extra $300 to buy a low end laptop is going to break you, perhaps you need to reconsider your college financing options.
All I could afford was a minimal desktop PC for $300.
Bullshit. Either you're lying or you didn't look hard enough. If you are that strapped for cash you could even have gotten something used or second hand. Even a brand new laptop can be had for under $300 these days.
You see not everyone is rich, or drives themselves deep-into-credit debt to buy these types of toys.
A laptop isn't a "toy" anymore and you don't have to be rich to own one. $300 isn't going to bankrupt you or if it does you were already near bankruptcy for other reasons.
My college job was working in the computer labs as a technician. I found this to be an invaluable time in my life. I learned how to install applications in a networked and secured environment. It gave me experience in a computing environment that was far more complex than any simple home network could be. It was a great asset to have on my resume when I did have to go out and get a job in the real world. Not to mention that the other student-aid approved jobs were food service, grounds keeping or receptionist/desk clerk. While the number of student employees needed to run the labs is far less than the number of students using the lab; there is still merit in providing a small portion of your student body the opportunity to apply their education while in school.
Several reasons:
1) I never brought my laptop to class or to campus from my dorms. Most people I see that do this just waste time on facebook, playing wow, or other games. It's an added weight that I hated lugging around. I stored all the data that I needed on a flash drive or on the university's unix systems.
2) There are many courses in engineering and other sciences where software is proprietary, can have high licensing fees, and even if the software is FOSS (as many scientific apps are) can sometimes be difficult to get installed on linux or other OSs for user's who aren't computer savy. There are many universities that run Linux/Unix computer labs and I think these are essential for technical/scientific computing.
Students and staff need a safe and secure place to backup their work. Too many uSoft induced problems among PC users requires a separate backups and their really should be data copies stored off-site. Any student that does not use the computer labs backup system and loses stuff should be pure out of luck -- real-world training.
There was only a single semester when I *needed* the computer lab, and that was the first I had moved off campus. I didn't want to shell out the cash for internet access because, lets face it, I would spend so much time in the CS lab anyway.
The CS lab was linked directly with the department file server, and I had been running linux full time since my sophomore year. As long as I had enough bandwidth to upload a source file, or download the occasional lib file the prof provided, there was no need for me to be in that lab, and on campus bandwidth was plentiful.
So why do it? I liked the company. I didn't like everyone in that department, to be sure, but most of the folks I knew were pretty good guys (and a couple girls), and it was fun swapping stories of funky things we were experiencing on our own systems, problems we were having with our current projects, or the latest interesting story on Slashdot.
I was a TA for most of my college career, but I spent so much time in the lab that the idea of logging my hours was really a joke. I think it was true for just about every one of the upperclassmen (and those who knew what they were doing) that we were always there to help out anyone who asked.
There was a lot to be gained from that experience. The CS lab was a space where we could work with others, where we could serve as mentors, and where we could get a feel for what it might possibly like to work in a room full of other people with a common interest. I shudder to think of what my CS experience would have been like without that space.
I'm a college student who owns their own laptop, and still use computer labs frequently, for reasons like:
-I need to print something and my printer isn't working.
-My roommate/neighbors/the construction crew outside are being too noisy. One poster said to live off-campus, but some schools don't allow that your first year or two except for extenuating circumstances, and even an apartment doesn't guarantee you won't have party animals or sex addicts for neighbors.
-My computer isn't working and it's getting repaired. This happens to almost everyone at some point or another.
-At one point, I did not have a laptop, and was using a desktop instead, which obviously couldn't be carried around campus.
-I have to carry heavy textbooks all over campus, and adding a laptop would just be too much.
-The class requires software that's too expensive for me to buy on my own.
-I'm having problems installing or running the required software for a class on my computer.
And, of course, there's lab components of computer classes, graphic design classes, or any other class that might require a computer or internet access at any time.
Best part about a computer lab was being the tech. Whenever a student needed programming or word help, you were the one to respond. Total bonus points if the student was of the opposite sex and you got a phone number in the end. How else is a geek to get laid?
$ man woman *
-bash:
I had to purchase a laptop through the school. They didn't give me the laptop till 2 days after I arrived on campus. I sought out the campus computer lab to ease my net addiction till I got my laptop.
I have no interest in keeping two computers around. Simple as that. My priorities involve not owning two machines just for everyday life. So, no, I would not have saved $200, I would have had something that wasn't what I wanted. And I really have no problem with spending more for what I want.
"You can either have software quality or you can have pointer arithmetic, but you cannot have both at the same time."
I bought it specifically for school. That it has grown into the role of supporting other stuff is a bonus, and paying more for it let me leverage it for that. I wasn't using 3DS Max or Poser or any of that when I bought the machine, but having the extra juice has helped.
"You can either have software quality or you can have pointer arithmetic, but you cannot have both at the same time."
Please come back when you move out of your parents' basement and weigh less than a quarter ton.
"You can either have software quality or you can have pointer arithmetic, but you cannot have both at the same time."
As many have already said, software is I think the big problem.
1a) I *WILL NOT* install Windows on any of my machines, and I know many who would not either. I don't care if I can buy it for $10 or whatever.. in fact, the big problem besides not wanting to fund Microsoft is Microsoft's shitty installer, which will try to make everything already on the computer non-bootable. Also the bloat -- if I bought a new machine now, it'd be a netbook -- obviously there's no way I'd put Vista on that, and I have no idea if the U sells XP any longer (it's bad to install End-Of-Lifed software anyway.)
1b) On the flip side, Comp Sci has some (I think Redhat) labs.. the Windows fans would not want to try putting Linux on their boxes either.
1c) On the third flip side, the arty departments probably want people to use Macs, making trouble for both the Linux *and* Windows users.
2) Of course all that software licensed *only* for university machines. Matlab, engineering software, GIS software, art software, and so on.
3) Specifications. Besides Microsoft-bloat, there's a bigger problem. My friend is in GIS, he's using 8-core machines and wants something faster! I expect too many people to just get the cheapest possible machine, and then not have enough to do specialized tasks. The U of I has recommended machines but you'd be mad to buy them -- last I checked, the cheapest machine on the list cost nearly $1000 -- FOR A DESKTOP. And it wasn't good, it was the typical unbalanced Dell where the extra cash went for a faster CPU, but the same 5400RPM hard disk and low-end video card that the cheaper models had (and of course, a forced purchase of a copy of Windows, most certainly at higher than University discount pricing). Yeah right! And then, again, for the art departments they'll want people to buy a Mac, forcing higher costs for lesser hardware onto the purchaser (fanbois, I tell you ahead of time, can it -- Macs *are* more expensive, don't try twisted logic, comparing to the most expensive Sony on the market, etc. to claim they are not.)
would probably satisfy most of the students' needs. Create a official school released bootable cd with the environment needed for the courses. Students that want to maintain their own environment can, and those that aren't sure how to do it, can just boot the cd. With the exception of 3D modeling, most students' workstation computing needs shouldn't be that demanding.
1. Printing.
2. Software. If you are an engineer you likely need to learn Autocad, or a raft of simulation packages. If you are in any data intense environment, you need to use stats packages. If you use math you may want mathematica, maple. If you are an arts major you may need access to Photoshop, adobe illustrator, CAD. If you are a comptuer sci major you may need access to multiple OSs.
Some of this can be handled with site licensing. Much of this can be handled with Virtual machines running on hefty hardware, with the student's laptop being a terminal.
The future of computer labs may be:
2-3 computers for use by students who don't have a laptop, just want to read their email, have to send a file as a genuine Word 2007 document.
The rest of the room are tables with an internet connection. (Bring your own cable.)
At the back there is a printer.
In addition there may be special purpose labs: E.g. E.E. labs where every station has an EEPROM programmer. Media labs where every station has three monitors, and Final Cut Pro.
Compute labs where the machines are simple front ends for working with clusters of computers.
Third Career: Tree Farmer Second Career: Computer Geek First Career: Teacher, Outdoor Instructor, Photographer.
Whey should computer labs still exists where they provide computer access? It's the same reason why my work provides a computer even though all of us here have at least one computer at home: Our home computers are our own computers that we can do whatever we want with while the ones at work belong to work to enable us to complete our work!
I would have never thought to try other operating systems had I not been forced to use any available computer in my school's lab. Through this I ended up trying Windows, Macs and Unix Systems. Very useful.
I find it interesting that the number of unique users at one of my alma maters' computer labs (a general-use lab located in the student union, a building which didn't exist in my time there) continues to climb, despite submitter "theodp" questioning why computer labs are still necessary and the headline announcing that campus computer labs are going to die this year.
Unfortunately, so does the ongoing slaughter of trees. Whatever happened to the paperless office/campus we were all promised a couple of decades ago?
Prevent Windows piracy. Use Linux instead.
Back when I was in college, I made infrequent use of labs my first three years of school. My desktop was more reliable, had an environment that I was used to, and in a quiet location. The computer science department had no dedicated labs, thus if I wanted to work with my peers, we had to use the general-purpose computers that were set up for performing word processing. I only made heavy use of the labs when I was pledging my fraternity and "voluntarily" could not return to my dorm room.
During my senior year, the Computer Science department opened a lab for exclusive CS student use. It had a small collection of old computers dug up from basements; and it was WONDERFUL! I would walk in with my shiny new laptop, and meet project partners who had shiny new laptops, and we had the best workspace that I used throughout my college career!
IMO, the best "lab" for computer science students is a set of dedicated rooms for the department. There should be a few inexpensive computers around for students who's laptops might be malfunctioning. These computers could be recovered from other departments as they upgrade, therefore keeping the cost of a lab down.
No, I will not work for your startup
Schools that are thinking about doing, think about it first. Before you do, you had certainly better consider lowering student fees and tuition since so much power, technology, and support will not be used.
and I simply laugh when I hear a story about computer labs going away. That's not going to happen. They will likely (and should) evolve to meet the needs of the users, but they will never disappear.
I found the OP's comment about collaborative space was very insightful. More and more we are seeing shifts from traditional computer labs (with distinguishing characteristics being "number of seats") to collaborative group spaces that incidentally have computers. I have seen students *waiting in line* to use one of the computers in a collaborative group space rather than walk over to the other lab which has several open seats (and incidentally, the same type of PC). In the Engineering college at least (where I am), it's more of a social endeavor to go to the computer lab. Especially since most engineering students have decent computers at home they can usually fall back on.
The other huge factor, as some commenters pointed out, is the printing. That's the #3 use (after email and web browsing) that our computer labs see.
Other factors include the ability to make use of specialized engineering software that students wouldn't normally be able to have on their home computers -- either their computers aren't powerful enough to run it, or they can't afford the software (of course, pirated software is all too common with this crowd). This is probably less of a factor now that we have a Virtual Lab -- a web-based remote connection service we offer that allows students to connect to a virtual lab PC and run the software installed there.
A student-owned laptop is just fine in our program -- so long as it's used as a supplement to the university's computing resources. Any computer can be used to websurf and type up school papers. Not every computer can run 3D combustion engine models and compute fluid dynamics.
Oh yeah, and if that student-owned laptop fails... don't expect us to fix it, please. We're strapped enough for resources to keep our own efficient labs running. Trust me, having one or two OS's to support in our labs instead of the dozen or so that could be on your laptop IS efficient and IS making best use of your student tech fees. If one of our PCs or thin clients goes down, we can hot-swap a spare or grab a repair part from our hardware closet in the time it would take to even determine if your laptop's problem is software or hardware related. Oh, and we buy from trusted manufacturers with certified model lines and reliable components -- not the daily special from Best Buy, so our machines won't go down as much. (My department may be atypical in this regard, true.)
If universities are looking for ways to save money on computing (and we are, all of us), they need to start looking at efficiencies. Use thin clients for basic computing needs, automate turning off PCs at night and holidays, use power saving features on computers & printers, purchase Energy Star efficient equipment, track & survey lab usage and pragmatically fund what will be USED (not what's sexy), etc.
Ran into my history professor yesterday and mentioned this to him. Last quarter, in all of his classes there were two people who used laptops.
Similarly I never saw anyone else with a laptop in my writing class.
Not for an engineering or programming degree which often requires a new laptop...
I HAVE an engineering degree (two in fact) and I assure you that my laptop from 2002 would get the job done just fine on the sorts of toy problems they give you in college. On the VERY rare occasion when professors give you something that requires actual computer horsepower, I have yet to see a college of any real repute which didn't have fast computers available for student use. You sir are talking out your ass to someone who has been there and knows better.
IMHO people who carry debt are poor financial advisers. They are likely just 1-2 months away from bankruptcy, if they lose a job, and therefore poor examples to follow.
I guess the fact that I'm a certified accountant, and have masters degrees in both engineering and finance must mean I know nothing about handling money. Oh wait... I actually DO know something about handling money and well known companies PAY me for that expertise.
There is nothing wrong with electing to not carry debt but it doesn't follow that other people are idiots because they elect to take advantage of what borrowed money can do for them. Sticking your money under the figurative mattress has an opportunity cost which you either aren't considering or naively dismiss. Either way I suggest you be careful in what you assume others before you make an ass of yourself in public again.
What happens when the 90% of the incoming freshman students' computers begin to break.
Repair facilities are more expensive than labs and in no way could be expected to do repairs for every computer and manufacturer.
More of a question to UVa but does anyone know if the students are seeing the benefits of taking away on campus computer labs?
Cheaper tuition/technology fees etc
or is it all just going into the university administration's salaries as yet another way to cut back (aka make up for their financial mistakes).
Why not cut restroom facilities. They are extremely expensive to maintain and since most students have home toilets... just tell them to hold it.
This is a dumb earmark plan to make college even more prohibitive to low income students.
I do not entirely agree with $1000 toward tuition instead of a laptop as being such an easy choice.
I seriously tried lab only computers armed with a custom version of puppy linux and admin access to the computers and I was still unable to do all of what i needed to do.
Eventually I came to the conclusion that i am going to school for education and not having a laptop was particularly debilitating. I took out a $1000 loan and ponied up for a new laptop.
$1000 isn't much compared to most univ.'s tuition, failing a class is often far more expensive.
So are all the parents of freshmen buying laptops now? Noone has desktops only in their dorm room? At schools where tuition costs and there fore family incomes are lower, I wouldn't expect over 90% to show up with them. This is also likely related to a lot of high schools now doing what is called one to one computing, where our tax dollars buy every student a laptop that is theirs for the duration of their school attendance, and they use it at school and at home.
Where do you want to be, What are you doing to get there.