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Work Progresses On 10,000 Year Clock
KindMind writes "CNet has pictures of a planned 10,000 year clock to be built in eastern Nevada by the Long Now Foundation. From the article: 'Running under its own power, the clock is an experiment in art, science, and engineering. The six dials on the face of this machine will represent the year, century, horizons, sun position, lunar phase, and the stars of the night sky over a 10,000-year period. Likely to span multiple generations and evolutions in culture, the thinking and design put into the monument makes it a moving sculpture as beautiful as it is complex.' This was reviewed on Slashdot in 2005. Really cool pictures, including one of a mechanical 'binary computer' that converts the pendulum into positions on the dial."
This seems optimistic.
As opposed to a non-binary computer?
I betcha it breaks 6 months after the warranty expires.
See my journal for slashdot ID's by year. Mine created in 2005. http://slashdot.org/journal/289875/slashdot-ids-by-year
I wonder when it'll be finished. I want to go see it when they start it.
This modern-day Stonehenge will be scavenged for parts and resources long before 10,000 years. Much like how the original Stonehenge was.
Trolling is a art,
I wonder, does it account for leap seconds and the slowing rotation of the Earth? If not, someone's going to look foolish in a few thousand years when their clock is off.
...we already find one of those?
How about a non-powered clock that used the positions of the sun, moon, and stars to tell the time?
We already have a version? that works for about half a day in most parts of the world, and 24 hours during the summers near the poles.
Another option:
A clock that simply reads the remaining amount of radioactive material in a sample. Use the radiation to drive the device.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
You'd think I would appreciate lots of close-up pictures of dissociated machine parts, but today, not so much. Must be taxes, but that gallery just looks like a lot of meaningless gears.
Even pictures need context.
Neal Stephenson's novel Anathem was inspired by the work and philosophy of the Long Now Foundation.
In brief: The narrator and many of the characters are members of a scholarly order which separates itself from the distractions of the outside world. Their monk-like existence is bound by many rules and rituals. Many of these center around the "winding" and tending of an immense clock.
Not a book for everyone, but I found it entertaining and intriguing.
The motion of galaxies/superclusters/filaments is pretty steady, why not just record the current positions many of them, and note when each observation was taken? Even if a small number of superclusters collide, most are likely to still be intact after millions of years, and this would require no moving parts.
This mechanical clock was completed 54 years ago. It has a 25,753 year cycle.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jens_Olsen's_World_Clock
(And it had to be completely renovated after 40 years...)
I wasn't able to glean the date that this clock will start officially ticking, or what will happen when the 10,000 years is up. But I hope that the creators document these things in a way that will be unambiguous to earthlings of our distant future - or else they may be creating yet another year in which apocalypse will be predicted, perhaps somewhere around 12012? Like 2012 all over again...
overly complex Rube Goldberg machine!
Just think, if this thing really works, then we've created another day where everyone will stockpile cans of food and hides in the cellar! "The Ancient Americans knew this clock would only need to be accurate for 3.65 million days!"
If you doubt that will happen, take a good look at the Mayan calendar.
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Why would we want to make that?
In 10000 years, the only living beings around will probably be some sort of overdeveloped cockroaches just starting to get a grip on speech.
Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice - Grey's Law
No, it runs Crysis. :)
THE WORLD IS GOING TO END IN 12009
THE AMERICANS PREDICTED IT
Running under its own power
Perpetual motion ?
Just give it a warranty period of of 119,996 months and it should be good to go.
Doesn't seem to be a priority in our modern capitalistic, manufacturing-intensive civilization. It seems that things are built deliberately to break down nowadays. Appliances that used to last decades now seem to break down in less than 10 years.
With all the environmental problems and the scarcity of resources, I welcome efforts to make things more durable in order to encourage reuse of resources. Sadly, this lesson seems to be lost on most people.
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The Tower of the Winds, the public mechanical calendar/sundial in the old Roman agora in ancient Athens, was probably not more than a few hundred years old before it was stripped for parts, looted, and converted into the bell tower for a former Byzantine Christian church. If history is anything to go by, then this mechanism will also be broken up and destroyed long before 10,000 years have passed.
I can't wait for the year 10,191 lots of cool stuff will start happening around then.
500 dollar reward for tip(s) leading to the arrest of the person(s) who stole my sig.
What you are telling me is this thing isn't y12.013k compliant?
THL phish sticks
Oh, great. Now some culture in the far future is going to think that teotwawki is going to happen when this clock finally winds down. This is as bad as the Aztec calendar! Can someone fix that problem and include somewhere on there directions for building the next one so our descendants don't have to hear paranoid religious zealots and superstitious nutballs going on and on about Armageddon (or whatever they'll be calling it up then)?
~AA
I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do.
Do you really expect people to remember that for 9,000 years? By then, I expect the "Not" to have worn down or maybe the whole thing... When asked, people will first relate, "Oh, that said, 'Not the end of time'." which will be remembered as, "Something about the 'end of time'." passed on simply as "End of Time" and eventually will become the name of the clock: "End of Time Clock"
I can't believe you don't know what a Hasemalphaginnojinglanaporphomism is.
No machine that complex (according to the photos) would last 10.000 years. Or they suppose there will always be funding for maintenance for the next 10.000 years? ... er... oscillating??)
If that's the case, even my Casio digital wrist watch could last that long, with proper care and maintenance. (It's turning 22 years old and still ticking
Don't forget to wind it!
We have been fooled ! This will last only 16 years !
And I understand binary !
--
There are 10 types of people in the world : Those who understand binary, and those who don't...
Will you be able to obtain warranty service at 9,573 years from now?
Take the cheese to sickbay, the doctor should see it as soon as possible - B'Elanna Torres, "Learning Curve"
v'ger? Is that you?
My blog. Good stuff (when I remember to update it). Read it.
Because 10,000 years from now we're still going to be using the same calendar and time system.
That is all.
Sounds like a modern version of the Antikythera Mechanism. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antikythera_mechanism
And wound every week. This clock is meant to be completely autonomous. That world clock is a neat device, but it's not nearly the same kind of project.
My blog. Good stuff (when I remember to update it). Read it.
If you can predict the unique patterns of shadows or light on any cloudless day or night in the future, you can make a calendar and clock that will work on that day.
In the worst case, you chisel astronomical tables into stone tablets then leave long-life measuring instruments behind. At that point, "what's the date and time" becomes "measure and look it up in the table."
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
I was under the impression that the Long Now's clock is intended to be a lasting monument, so durability and minimized maintenanced needs are likley a core design requirement -- in addition to technical accuracy.
Are they going to make sure it can handle 5-digit years? In other words, is it Y10K compliant?
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Ternary computers also exist. I've seen circuits and algorithms that benefitted from using balanced ternary rather than binary.
Anyone who believes exponential growth can go on forever in a finite world is either a madman or an economist
I though this sentence: "Likely to span multiple generations and evolutions in culture" really said THIS:"Likely to spam multiple generations and evolutions in culture" and thought to myself, "Now I've got really long range clocks spamming me!?!?!?!?! How many gmail accounts do I need before I get something REAL!
Then I realized exactly how sad that thought really was, and now kinda wish the 10,000 year clock WOULD spam me....just to take up some of those 10,000 lonely years......... :(
"This is the value of a summer spent and a winter earned"
This is a really cool video (at least I thought it was really cool) with some more details on the clock of the long now.
If you can read this... 01110101 01110010 00100000 01100001 00100000 01100111 01100101 01100101 01101011
Am i the only one who was a bit thrown by them saying "likely to span several generations..." I should really hope so! There's a few cheap clocks at my house that have already accomplished that.
Why not save time and name it the "End of Time Clock"? Longest practical joke ever.
I have determined that my sig is indeterminate.
Nah, let those around in 10,000 years shake in their boots for a few months.
Heck, maybe some will make some money off of all the hoopla (a la Y2K).
"I have no special gift, I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
Like the time cube can?
-
They seem a little naive to me using moving parts.
10,000 years is a long time to hope that bugs, animals, or debris won't get caught in the mechanical moving parts of this clock.
At least nobody who built it will be around then to prove them wrong.
RS
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someone has to enter a code and press execute every 108 minutes.
...I mean, are you arguing that it should be in beta for 12,000 yrs? Makes sense, heck it even fits the purpose of building the thing in the first place. Someone will HAVE to be working on the project in 12,000 yrs in order to verify function. How will the foundation last that long? Why will people of the future commit to it?
Under the influence of Post-Cyberpunk Gonzo Journalism
Exegi monumentum aere perennius, wrote Horace, but with modern bronze alloys I wouldn't bank on it.
From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
How many decades is it going to spend blinking 12:00?
So what you're saying is that even in the distant future humans will be so amazingly primitive that they'll still think digital watches are a pretty neat idea?
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Children, the ancient Nevadans were a race of people known for their great engineering skills and their faith in the God Roulette, a god that they believed would judge people, punishing them or rewarding them. It is said that with a wave of the hand, the King of the Nevadans could cause a great temple to crash to the ground and then raise a new one up that very day.
The Nevadan culture built this clock, it will run out in 3 years. They were known for their prophecy. They must have known something we don't. The world will end in the year 12,012. This is off course, a significant number...
Taken from a lecture at the Art Bell Elementary School in the year 12,009.
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Daylight Saving Time. Are they sure the govt isn't going to mess with the start and end dates again?
Want!
While I complained about the coverage, I don't have a problem with the ambition behind the project. I don't know how it will end, but I don't have a problem with building something to last 10,000 years to prove it can be done, or because you want your name up in lights or whatever. It will probably require renovations (like Jens Olsen's 25ky clock linked elsewhere here), but it's still an audacious concept, and admirable for that.
Did anybody else think of the movie, "The Dark Crystal"?
Veritas patesco per quaestio questio. Truth is revealed through questions.
What makes this thingamajoob a "clock" as opposed to a "calendar"?
Yes they do. You clearly don't realize the point.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
That is, more or less, the mission statement of the Long Now Foundation (the folks designing and building the clock).
Wow. It's astonishing, the density of stupid you've achieved in that post.
To highlight one item: it's not going to be sealed inside a limestone cliff, you moron. You can't even get your facts right, and you're criticizing them for not thinking it through?
Anyone who loves or hates any language, platform, or manufacturer, doesn't know what they're talking about.
...does it have a snooze alarm?
Read the website maybe you'll understand their mission a little more clearly. Just because it will be difficult and may not last the whole 10,000 years doesn't mean it shouldn't be done. Maybe people will start to think more than 15 minutes ahead in life with discussions like these.
If you can read this... 01110101 01110010 00100000 01100001 00100000 01100111 01100101 01100101 01101011
The designs are very pretty and very smart within a very narrow context which makes a number of rather wishful assumptions. Let me list a few items I think may have been overlooked by the design team. . .
1. You have to travel out into the middle of a Nevadan wasteland to wind the clock every 100 years. Oh boy. 100 years? This assumes that we will not even once during the next ten millennia be reduced to very hard living conditions which preclude such luxuries as leaving the family hearth to make an exhausting and largely meaningless pilgrimage out into the middle of nowhere to maybe screw up something we were not trained for and no longer have the education required to read the instruction manual to do right. --All to satisfy the high-minded notions and general Gee-Whiz factor of a team of long-dead geeks. Hmm.
2. Valueless metal? The kind which is enormously strong and doesn't corrode? When I'm looking to make knives or a new plough, that kind of metal is worth far more than crappy bog iron.
3. Vegetable life. Fascinating stuff. Faster than it looks, eats rock, and is basically about as predictable as a seed in a bit of bird poop on a random gust of wind. One tree taking root in the wrong spot and, "all your clock are belong to us". --The fact that the current clock design requires sunlight for daily calibration means that the chance of vegetable matter interacting with it goes waaaay up.
4. Ice. Ice ages happen and 10,000 years is plenty of time to see another one. --This does not mean that Nevada will be covered in a blanket of frozen water. But it does mean that the biosphere will adjust itself enormously, creating all kinds of random conditions. New bodies of water, new weather patterns, new migratory paths, new forests, new deserts. Nevada may seem desolate today, but it may be a rain forest in ten thousand years.
5. Basic human nature. How many of your parent's vital passions did you adopt? At a 100 years, you've got about three to four generations between windings. Even in an advanced culture like ours, most people reading about a big clock project will yawn and not get it, (certainly not enough to commit themselves to the high-skills task of maintenance.)
I think there are two solutions.
A) Embrace life in a far greater way; (Make the clock mobile so that it won't risk being eaten by the planet, use religion; it seems to be the only thing which can last for any appreciable length of time. Survived the last dark age after so many wonders were forgotten. (Jesus will come to the Jews in 10,000 years so long as you wind this thing and don't tell anybody. Something like that.) This, however, is probably futile. Religious artifacts tend to get scattered to the four winds despite all precautions. While religion is good at preserving certain ideas, those very ideas make them the target of vitriol and war.
The best we can really expect is for some diluted and largely mangled spiritual philosophy to transit the millennia. We've actually got a few examples floating around today. Not so many clocks though. . .
B) Remove life from the equation altogether. If you can build a weight which takes a 100 years to fall, then why not a 100 of them? Or 50 which take 200 years to fall? This way, you can put it deeper underground, away from trees, fickle humans and glaciers. The only problem with this is that people will forget. There's a very good chance it will reach its final tick, send up its flag and then set in for the really long wait. . .
Which raises the question. . .
I wonder how many ancient clocks there are currently sitting around in deep underground vaults? --If some people working in some off the department books are to be believed, if they are willing to talk to you, then the answer is, "More than one."
-FL
... that it is silently running linux hosting a simple ntp server that routinely synchronizes its analog dial with pool.ntp.org.
After a few decades when ntp.org domain expires, the clock would mysteriously stop working. And it coincidentally relates to yet another doomsday conspiracy, sparks worldwide chaos and marks the end of humanity.
Rush rock (well, their earlier stuff did). But I think "Time Stand Still" is more appropriate.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."