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Dell Indicates Windows 7 Pricing Will Be Higher
ausekilis sends us word that a Dell spokesman said, without giving numbers, that Windows 7 pricing will be higher than Vista's or XP's. "Windows 7 pricing is potentially an obstacle to Windows 7 adoption for some users, though in just about every other aspect the operating system is beating Vista, according to a Dell marketing executive. ... [Darrell] Ward continued, 'In tough economic times, I think it's naive to believe that you can increase your prices on average and then still see a stronger swell than if you held prices flat or even lowered them. I can tell you that the licensing tiers at retail are more expensive than they were for Vista. ... Schools and government agencies may not be able to afford (the additional cost). Some of the smaller businesses may not be able to enjoy the software as soon as they'd like,' Ward said.'"
Now if we could just get Dell to put a little drop down option in its OS & Productivity Suite selection to have an option for "Ubuntu & Open Office (subtract $200)" on all of their computers. And then to have it actually be $200 cheaper with the exact hardware.
Then we might be talking about "2009: The Year of the Recession and Linux on the Desktop."
My work here is dung.
News at 11.
There is no -1 Disagree mod. Slashdot.org/faq defines mod options. USE IT.
Dell is obviously unhappy with the price and they are signalling (Cards. a play that reveals to one's partner a wish that he or she continue or discontinue the suit led.) to Microsoft their discontent.
Dave Barnes 9 breweries within walking distance of my house
When you have a strong monopoly, you can squeeze the cash cow even in tough times.
Probably the value/price ratio will be better for Windows 7 than for Vista (or at least, the perception of it). Of course, if you take that into account Mac OS X could have a better ratio, and Linux, well, give math headaches.
But if you dont count them as alternatives, then you have only one choice, and should pay whatever Microsoft think will be enough for them to survive the recession.
microsoft is a company sitting on 25 billion dollars. they apparently sold $3-4 billion in bonds? they are *raising* prices during some of the worst economic times that a lot of people of have seen.
it's like they have a pressing need for more than $30 billion?
for a company that needs to sell operating systems to maintain their future, it doesn't make sense.
e
See that won't happen for two reasons. One is that MS gives you better licensing when you bundle Windows with all systems from a line. However the major reason is that Dell doesn't want to put up with the shit it would generate. It would be a tech support nightmare if they did that on main stream, consumer systems. You'd get a great many people doing it because it saves money. However they'd give no thought to if their apps would work or if they were willing to spend the time learning a new OS and so on. They'd get flooded with calls about it and have all sorts of angry people.
That's why when companies do offer things like Linux or no OS options, they do so on business type machines. When they are selling to an organization with their own support, they hope you can figure out what will and will not work for you. For home users? Ya not so much. They'd buy it, try to install a game, then complain because it didn't work.
Also, based on the prices Dell pays, it'd be $100 or less per computer.
Windows 7 pricing will be higher than Vista's
Oh I'm so glad I bought Vista and qualify for a free Windows 7 upgrade.
Right?
they need to demonstrate to investors that they are indeed a money making business that will continue to make a lot of money in the future. Regardless of their cash position, if the investors leave, who already got shaky feelings from vista, then the market cap of the whole company goes down and ballmer will go looking for a job.
Now whether higher prices will help them make their sales goals, that's yet to be seen. In the short term, perhaps yes, with all the built in sales to the OEMs. In the long term, I bet the retail sales trail the oem sales for a while, so this might have been a pretty good plan overall anyways.
Note that Dell doesn't actually come out and say that. They aren't saying "MS is charging us $20 more per copy." They are hinting at it, but hedging their terms. What it smells like to me is Dell wants a better rate than they've been getting in the past, and this is one of the tactics they are using to get it.
Companies posture over pricing all the time, and sometimes publicly. If Dell can get people mad at MS for their high prices, even if the prices are no higher than they normally are, then maybe they get more leverage.
So while I have no inside knowledge of the situation, that's my bet. MS is keeping 7 prices the same, and Dell thinks they should be cut.
How much will it cost to get a copy of XP from Dell when 7 is released?
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has it's limits" - Albert Einstein
I thought this was about Windows.
Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
Sometimes if you make it more expensive, people will buy it for that reason alone. They see the higher price, and think that there must be a good reason for it to be a little bit more expensive than the alternatives.
$x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
$x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
I already pay a higher price for XP compared to Vista. Now I'm gonna have to pay a higher price for 7 compared to Vista?
Don't worry! Where you're going, you won't need eyes to see!
Mod me down, my New Earth Global Warmingist friends!
Fsck that. Seriously. Fsck. That.
2010 = Year of Ubuntu on Joe Sixpack's computer, when he discovers that he can buy a netbook for less than the cost of a single Windows 7 license.
I don't get it. My theory of Vista as an expectation lowering decoy gets more and more plausible.
Damn that's some mighty smelly bait. I hope no one is foolish enough to actually take it and respond seriously to it... it will just make the entire thread sick.
A box running 10.2 is fairly useless for what you are trying. IE stopped being supported years ago. Safari and FF won't run the latest versions, you have to try and find earlier ones (so, yes your best bet is what you have... FF2).
10.2 came out in 2002, so I would compare it more to running into problems with XP SP1, you're gonna find a lot of software that doesn't run on that OS version too.
Oh and good luck running XP SP3, anti-virus and current versions of software satisfactorily on a Windows box that is 7 years old (I have experience doing this at work, makes for unhappy users).
errr... hook, line and sinker. doh.
Being forced to run 10.2 is much like being stuck with any machine old enough to have come with 10.2 pre-installed.
You got it free because it is OLD, not because it's inherently bad.
This guy probably has a current Mac these days.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
If you don't have $150 for an OS X licence, how about $5 to burn a Debian CD-R? Better than leaving it as an electronic paperweight.
Er... no. Those words... they do not mean what you think they mean.
Responding seriously to it would be refuting his points. Pointing out that it's stinky bait is just that... a warning to other readers to beware.
If you don't like what you hear, discredit the author's opinion by using the words "bait" or "troll". Don't even consider the fact that the author might ACTUALLY hate the Macintosh he's typing upon. No that couldn't possibly be.
Anyway I stand by what I said about OS 10.2 refusing to display youtube.com, or install Flash Player, or run Firefox 3. That's pathetic. Even my ancient Windows 98 laptop will let me watch youtube or other website videos. Why can't OS 10.2? Makes no sense.
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
You know, if you're going to criticize me for falling "hook, line and sinker" you might want to refrain from actually doing so yourself.
I wonder what it's like inside Microsoft's little bubble world? It's as if they're oblivious to everyone and everything outside of it. A recession is on but hey!, lets go ahead and raise the price! I mean, after all everyone hates Vista so they should be kicking Microsoft's door in to have to opportunity to pay more for the next version, right?
Meanwhile I just upgraded my laptop to Jaunty and had it completely setup and configured to my needs in under a half hour. For free. It really makes me rethink the whole idea of upgrading my Vista machine.
God, schmod. I want my monkey man!
But, as you said, we don't have the information. We do know that the cost of shipping Linux is $0 and the cost of shipping Windows is $X. For some value of X > 0. We also suspect that shipping a version of Linux costs them Y for Y > 0 because they have to pay protection to Microsoft. We don't know how much the crapware people are paying Dell (et al) for their junk to be included.
But for an OS - without crapware, without coerced payments to microsoft for protection money, without advertising and junk - we know that linux is cheaper and (for the most part) better. We know that Dell (et al) are doing what Microsoft wants because Microsoft is the big bully on the playground. And we know that everyone goes along with it because at some point some Microsoft peon (perhaps the public schools, perhaps a cheezy university), perhaps their boss, said "Microsoft is the Beez Kneez" and they (sadly) bought the party line. Very little different than the peasants in Stalin-land.
So to recap, you won't spend $150 to upgrade you mac, but are willing to spend over $100 to upgrade to windows 7?
BTW OSX 10.5.6 only costs $129 http://store.apple.com/us/product/MC094 saved you $20!
Half of writing history is hiding the truth.
Oh no man, that comment to yours was referring to this post by me. Sorry for not being clear.
Quit living in the past, and get a perm!
Oh and good luck running XP SP3, anti-virus and current versions of software satisfactorily on a Windows box that is 7 years old
I'm running Windows XP SP3 on a Dell PC with an 866 MHz Pentium III CPU, made in the fourth quarter of 2000. The only significant hardware upgrade was from 128 to 384 MB of RAM. I have a ClamWin weekly scan as my non-invasive antivirus. And I run current Firefox, current GIMP, current Nestopia, and current CC65.
I was the one that fell for it. I just wasn't clear enough in my post. Doh again...
>>>10.2 came out in 2002, so I would compare it more to running into problems with XP SP1,
I see your point but consider it invalid because XP SP1 does run most software. Even my ancient Win98 laptop will display youtube.com and other website video services. Why is it that an ancient 1998 OS can run flash videos, but not a 2002 OS? Hmmm. It makes no sense to me.
Maybe this is the "Mac tax" everyone talks about? I never understood what that meant, but if Mac users have to keep spending ~$150 every other year to upgrade from 10.2 to 10.3 to 10.4 (plus the necessary RAM upgrades), then that could get damn expensive.
I've had the same XP installation since 2002. I've never had to spend a dime to upgrade from XP to SP1 to SP2 to SP3. But if I was a Mac user, then I guess I'd have already spent a few hundred going from 10.0 to 10.1 to 10.2 to 10.3.....
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
I wonder if it would be possible for someone like Dell to allow people to choose to have linux and windows pre-installed except leave windows on a 30 day trial. Then people are free to try out linux and see if it suits their needs. If they then decide they need windows, they can purchase a key for activation.
Some of the smaller businesses may not be able to enjoy the software as soon as they'd like
Translation: They'll buy it anyway, because MS could shit in a box and small Businesses with little to no technical support or knowledge would still feel forced to buy it because they don't know they don't have to.
10.2 can watch them and I have machines that do. The problem is that you are trying to install the latest versions of everything, something that also won't work on 98.
OS X 10.2
Ah-hah, right. You're using an OS that was EOL'ed in 2003, and expecting it to run modern software? That's like complaining Windows 95 won't run IE 8. If you want to run modern software, you need a modern OS. I don't try to play Warcraft on OS/2 Warp, do you get my meaning?
Also, as a non-trolling response, have you tried oldversion.com? You could almost certainly find a version of flash that's supported on 10.2, or a less-antique version of Safari. That, or watch eBay. I'd bet Tiger shows up there infrequently.
Just another "DOJ fascist authoritarian totalitarian bootlicker" -- Zeio
Actually he showed me his new machine. It's an XP-64 operating system which he uses for running a personal website, playing Red Alert, or just casual surfing.
I guess he too got tired of expensive bi-annual Mac OS X upgrades.
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
Obviously, M$ must be creative to recoup their Vista development costs. But if it's true then I guess Dell are afraid they will have to cut down on their own costs/profits, just to keep the total price down.
*sees (Score:3, Informative)*
Equally informative: sky remains blue, water remains wet, Pope remains Catholic.
*expects a +5 with some adjective*
Let q be a radix > 1. I am in ur base-q, killing 10 d00ds.
"Some of the smaller businesses may not be able to enjoy the software as soon as they'd like,' Ward said.'"
If by enjoy you mean rip of a band-aid really fast.
And history repeats itself. Anyone remember WindowsME?
You mean that piece of shit OS that was supposed to revolutionize the consumer OS but was little more than a tainted bloated version of Windows 98 but served as a springboard for the very little revolutionary but usable Windows XP? ... Oh the irony.
Not true. I'm happy to use old software (look at my handle). I tried to install the old version of Adobe Flash Player (9) that is supposed to work on 10.1 through 10.3, and it crashed halfway through the install. The next thing I did was try to find an open-source or free alternative, but so far I've not had much success.
All I want to do is watch youtube and cnn.com videos - I don't care if I'm running software that was written today, or five years ago. I just want it to work, but OS 10.2 keeps putting obstacles in my way. - "Sorry you have to upgrade" or "Sorry that installer had a fatal error."
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
Linux remains free of value to noob consumers that are already confused when the colors of their Word icons change.
There, fixed that for you.
I don't believe Vista is new coke, it is a product of Microsoft's hubris.
POKE 36879,8
What option will people have when their "free" Windows 7 beta runs out? The path of least resistance at that point will be to pay whatever Microsoft says its worth.
>>>You're using an OS that was EOL'ed in 2003...that's like complaining Windows 95 won't run IE 8.
You see that's where you're wrong. It's more like complaining because XP Service Pack 2 refuses to show me youtube.com, crashes when I run Internet Explorer or Firefox 3, and refuses to install Adobe Flash Player. POINT: Such a young OS should not be so broken.
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
P.S.
>>>have you tried oldversion.com?
No. It's one of the reasons I came here. I know from experience that if a user ____es loud enough, he'll draw the attention of the IT experts, and they'll suggest a solution. ;-) I'm going to try your recommended website right now, and see if I can find a version of Flash compatible with 10.2
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
P.P.S.
Well that didn't work. It's nothing but Microsoft versions of Flash Player. (shrug). I'm starting to remember why I abandoned the Amigas and Macintoshes in 1998 and moved to IBM PC compatibles - it's simply easier to find the programs. The minority OSes are often a PITA to find the software you need.
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
Commodore, There are just too many variables to consider. That Mac OS dates back from 2002. Its hardware specs could even be older than 2002. Your friend (or his family) could have accidentally damaged it, poured coffee into it, or whatever...
Personally, I still have a Windows laptop that runs Windows Me. It can play youtube videos, yes (sort of), but it can't update itself -- it can't update its Internet Explorer (It hasn't been able to for a couple of years). And it can't do a number of things that most computer users would now take for granted. It's basically just a piece of crap that I reserve for family members when they come and visit.
And while I agree that your parent post should have never been modded down into -1 flamebait status, I think you're expecting too much from a machine that was just given to you for free after it stopped working properly in the first place.
Anyway I stand by what I said about OS 10.2 refusing to display youtube.com, or install Flash Player, or run Firefox 3. That's pathetic. Even my ancient Windows 98 laptop will let me watch youtube or other website videos. Why can't OS 10.2? Makes no sense.
I'm not sure I see your point. Adobe has had spotty support for other OSs than Windows for a while. What were you expecting? For them to develop for a niche of a niche? They won't even release Linux PPC or 64-bit binaries.
Once you start despising the jerks, you become one.
Microsoft!!!!!!! Please sell Windows 7 at $29.95!!!!!!!!! Wake up and smell the coffee! 2bit geeks like me are already dual booting Ubuntu and Windows. I have accounts at slashdot and digg so I am geeky enough not to buy music or porn and know just enough to build a website and create software with free stuff! SO WHY THE H would I pay big $ bill for an OS??? The real world is this: 20 year olds that I know think that anyone that builds a website is working for Microsoft (not kidding). Microsoft is so generic that it is pitiful. These people point at the tallest building in a city and say that it is Microsoft. Now back to my point: If you charge $X00.00 dollars for Window Heaven, then why would I buy and download it when I already have what it does on my system? If you charge something simple like $20 bucks or so (like drug dealers know to do) then you will have a sell and I may pass the advice to my not a clue friends that they can get this system that works. Enough said!
The spent millions just on a four-note "startup sound" that apparently most of us will never hear. Seven years in development down the tubes.
Help stamp out iliturcy.
Some moron modded you down, obviously. I'm jealous. No one has ever given me a Mac - it would be fun to play with!! Another post further down suggests installing BSD - why not? Just make a backup first, so that if BSD doesn't work, you can come back to what doesn't work!! Wait... did I really say that?
I'm still jealous, lol Good luck!
"Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
MS's latest move might bear out my theory about why they sold those bonds:
MS sold bonds at a rock bottom price because they know those bonds are going to get massively devalued when inflation goes bonkers over the next couple years.
MS is raising its prices ahead of this (hyper?)inflation scenario so that they can continue to turn a reasonable profit. Once they set the cost there isn't really any going back. Inflate the costs now for the OS that has to sell for at least a few years.
That's my theory.
-
Why don't you drop the $60 bucks on 10.3 disks? You can generally skip a few versions of Mac OS X, but you have gone over board. The Mac OS market isn't big enough for most companies to support that antiqued OS regardless. Bitch if you want, but that is how it is. A lot of core APIs were still forming then which exasperate things.
When open source projects start only supporting back to Mac OS 10.4, you know you have a problem. It means there aren't enough people out there. If you're brave, you can try porting FF3 to Mac OS 10.2. That is what people did with Mozilla on Mac OS 9 for a while. But it's much more fun to bitch, isn't it?
Once you start despising the jerks, you become one.
In reading these comments, its amazing how many of you actually believe that Dell (or any other top-tier PC maker) pays anything even near retail for any Microsoft OS.
I know for a fact that back in the days before Vista when XP was still king that HP was typically paying Microsoft $35 a copy. I'm sure Dell gets a similar discount, and I'm sure they aren't paying any more than $60 or so a copy now.
In addition, the makers of all that shitware that comes preinstalled on your new PC pays Dell a fee for putting it there. That's another reason that getting Linux on a PC from Dell would not necessarily reduce your price.
This sounds to me like Dell wants to raise prices and increase their margins (which are currently very thin in the PC industry), and this is a cool way to blame it on Microsoft. They simply don't have the balls to say "Dell needs to make more profit".
I want a new quote. One that won't spill. One that don't cost too much. Or come in a pill.
"though in just about every other aspect the operating system is beating Vista,"
Beating a dead horse: It's a feature, not a bug.
No one has to get the latest Windows7? Oh, yes, because we hate Vista we need to buy Windows7. Nonsense. Hardware prices are going down, and so will software. And here also Linux comes into play. Desktop Linux does not need to become a reality it is just necessary to strategically invest in alternatives. Asus is a perfect example.
Okay, let me know when you find the C64 version of Flash and can watch YouTube. I was gonna help you, but like previously identified, I fell for your bait. Fuck off and die.
Images aren't happy when you change motherboards, even less so when it's a chipset change.
Yay me!
...though in just about every other aspect the operating system is beating Vista...
Definitely the marketing slogan they should come out with "Better than Vista, almost better than the Swine Flu!"
It's almost 10x higher on the Minis.
Microsoft is pushing this FUD about Linux on netbooks because their're shit-scared of the next wave of ARM-powered minis which won't run their software at all.
This is what Dell REALLY has to say about Linux on netbooks;
Dell attributes part of the Linux growth to competitive pricing on the Ubuntu SKUs. "When you look at the sweet spot for this category it is price sensitivity, and Linux enabled us to offer a lower price entry point," added Dell senior product manager John New.
According to Dell, the the return rate of Ubuntu running Mini 9s are comparable to the XP rate, which we are told is "very low." "Our focus has been making sure that before the order is taken is that the customer knows what he is getting," New added.
http://blog.laptopmag.com/one-third-of-dell-inspiron-mini-9s-sold-run-linux
"I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
Enjoy the software? Enjoy the Software! I AM GOING TO FUCKING KILL BALMER, as soon as i finish toking on this EULA
#turns back to keyboard. types r-u-n-o-n-c-e in breathless anticipation.
#fade to next scene, a forlorn penguin wandering aimlessly somewhere in antarctica, mutters under his breath... What do I have to do? Give this shit away? I'm never gonna get off this island. Looks towards the heavens... STEEEEEEEEEEEEVE!!!
A lot of them are compiled with /LARGEMEMAWARE. Even on a 32bit system, that'll hit 3gig
Yay me!
I think you mean "biennial", which means "every other year". "bi-annual" means twice per year.
The "cue the foo posts in 3, 2, 1..." posts will commence with no subsequent foo posts in 3, 2, 1...
The biggest effect will be on Netbooks. Windows did not start making up a large portion of netbook os sales until the price for xp was lowered. With this sudden rise in prices you will see a move back to Dell's Ubuntu.
Actually I think you're a troll; it seems to me you're angry with Firefox and flash, not Apple? OS X Jaguar still works as well as it did the day it was released, and I can assure you there's no hidden code in there preventing FF3 and Flash from running just to spite you.
You act as if it's Apple's fault they've had almost 4 major OS releases in the time MS has had one, and your argument is akin to complaining that Netscape works fine on your System 7 machine but how dare it not run on your Mac Plus with 1MB and System 4.2 (which had only just recently introduced such innovations as hierarchical menus). This is how ridiculous you sound. Windows (or it's API's) have been stagnant for the better part of a decade and win32 has pretty much been shelved and depreciated. Would you expect Firefox and Flash binaries to run on a 7 year old linux distro? You're an idiot - please, give that mac to somebody who appreciates it.
Squeeze it too hard, and what you have is not so much a cow as a pile of hamburger...
That's OK, I'd trade my piece of shit Vista install for a good hamburger. In-N-Out would be great, or maybe Five Guys.
Maybe this is the "Mac tax" everyone talks about? I never understood what that meant, but if Mac users have to keep spending ~$150 every other year to upgrade from 10.2 to 10.3 to 10.4 (plus the necessary RAM upgrades), then that could get damn expensive.
Except that... you didn't spend ANY of that money upgrading THAT machine. Not even your friend spent the money.
So now you can spend ~$150 for the first time ever in that machine's life and get 10.4 on it. That should be enough for the life of that old Mac. Or maybe it can handle 10.5, that's even better.
I've had the same XP installation since 2002. I've never had to spend a dime to upgrade from XP to SP1 to SP2 to SP3.
That's because MS delayed the release of Longhorn (Vista) for so many years: there was no new OS to upgrade XP to. (Originally Longhorn was expected to ship in late 2003, and yes, you would have had to pay for it.) And when they finally released Vista... it turned out to be so bloated that pretty much no PC from 2002 would is able to handle it anyway!
On the Mac side the best approach would have been to skip 10.3 and buy 10.4 in 2005. There you have it. $150 in total and you would have had a kick-ass machine with an OS that many consider better than XP or Vista for four years now.
But no. Your friend had to be cheap.
You could have adware, spyware and trialware for Linux distros... if there were a market for them.
Maybe the Linux community doesn't really want the hoi polloi using Linux.
This issue is a bit more complicated than you think.
some of the free pc's forced you in to 2-3 year dial up plan. Also at the same time DSL and cable was starting to come out and many people dropped aol and dial up at the time for dsl / cable.
Couldn't you just turn a hose on them?
"I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
Dell's not about to incur the wrath of the beast like that. They know which side their bread is buttered on. Besides pissing off Microsoft, the more machines they sell with Linux, the less money they get from the crapware loading.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
"Discoverability & Mindshare"
As your flawlessly prototypical perfect Linux candidate, I'm no turbo newbie to Windows, but like culture shock, some things irrationally scare me with Linux, because of Inverse Beginner's Luck.
Make a utility that acts like GoBack (later diluted by MS as SysRestore). Let me know that if I explore I have a chance in blazes of recovering.
My last install, I tried to update from Dapper Drake to the next LT release, per "advertized", ... and blew up X.
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
That assumes they'll ever enjoy Windows 7 doesn't it? If they didn't buy into Vista what does this Ward fellow think Windows 7 will have that'll make folks like it? Less expensive hardware requirements? Dream on. Better security? (If it hasn't already been said by someone from Microsoft, I can almost guarantee that you'll soon be hearing that "Windows 7 is the most secure version of Windows to date".) Don't count on that. (I give it less than a month before a major virus/worm makes the rounds of the new Windows 7 systems.) Lower support costs? You're kidding, right?
Seems like some of these analysts already know that Windows 7 is going to be a turkey.
CUR ALLOC 20195.....5804M
How much OEMs like Dell are paying for the various Windows versions
- Let's say $110 for Vista Home Premium based on OEM prices at a retail store. Take these off an entry-level model and it's a 30% "discount"
What the contracts specify about pricing and how non-Microsoft OSes affect the prices Dell is chared by Microsoft
- Let's say these are mostly anti-competitive things (as judged by the two biggest economies in the world, EU and USA) and users will surely gain from the absence of these restrictions - while Dell might save on lawyers and accountants to keep the system running...
How much the various add on/bundling software vendors are paying to subsidize the cost of Windows on x86 boxes
- This made sense when people were not computer-savvy. Today's teens were born with a computer next to the baby-monitor so that's not an issue anymore to know that you need an anti-virus software with Windows... This sounds a little like commercials on your favourite radio station to counterbalance the costs of running the equipment and song royalties - people just skips them.
How much it really costs Dell to support, advertise, and ship Linux in addition to Windows
I'd change that to
How much it really costs Dell to support Windows
- 100 people? 200 people?
Can I put a spell on those who can't spell?
Your wheels are loose and they're losing their grip, good you're there.
I don't think it will be too bad of a crapshoot for too many years more.
I deliberately went to Best Buy looking for a cheap system I could blow up windows & put linux on. I didn't want to "waste a real system" (don't laugh) knowing my talent for making my own disasters.
It worked. Printer, basic landline dsl, sound. Fine by me. Any further problems I had were my fault in other categories.
I'm developing a theory of "lynchpins". There are specific things that "almost work", and maybe the expert knows the tricks.
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
So let him address the guys who already "won the lottery". My hardware works. It's the software side I'm screwing up.
Now I know to ask him for help; not sure about you.
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
This is just Dells message to Microsoft telling them they will not eat a higher wholesale cost. They are swinging the bat they have to make MS lower the licensing costs.
Good for them.
Chuck
You know, I think "average users" are one fresher step down in the WTH department.
I think they "know what Linux is" now because the world is too connected. They may know nothing ABOUT Linux, but the noun is there. Probably "that whiz kid" or "that dude at work" uses it and they looked on.
I'm wagering it's now actually attempting to use Linux is scary as hell for these folks... because it is for me and I'm used to being a midge above average on Windows. Suddenly on Linux I can't do a thing right.
Parallel poster is right - it's no longer about 7 pieces of hardware failing. Let's suppose that's all straightened out. (I bought a POS from Best buy, a midline Samsumg printer, and did fine.) Those guys addressing the Support Side are right - let's call it "every user has 100 questions". It's an educational process. Each time you get X user up and running with their hundred questions, the next fella steps up, and 30 of them are the same, 70 are new ones.
It prob. feels exhausting to those in the know, but there we are.
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
have you tried running Linux PPC on it? Adobe doesn't have a version of Flash for it, but Gnash may work and at least you'd get an up-to-date system.
No problem is insoluble in all conceivable circumstances.
$1000 in support. Seriously.
I see ads on hulu for "education foundation - Rwanda". That's here. These guys are not going to win quick bucks.
Someone has to take a beautiful long haul approach with SERIOUS cash for twelve years to finally bust up Microsoft, and then people can talk quick money then. Once Linux/variant mentality of FreeOS gets REALLY locked, we're fine.
We're just still struggling because of MS's blackly beautiful dirty plays 15 years ago.
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say supporting Linux is HARD. (Thus a cost factor to deal in.)
Ultra-low Windows support can be handled by "script-teams" in centers. Usually after they get past "so you have Windows XP, you checked the cables, you rebooted, and the device manager looks okay", they escalate you. Their purpose is to burn the low hanging 12 minutes getting the brutally low end 5 data points to get a real incident going.
With Linux the fabled "average" user with no vocab is going to start with "my computer doesn't boot."
"What version of Linux do you have?"
"I don't know."
"Who makes it."
"I think it's that uBuntu guy."
"Okay, do you know which version?"
"No."
"Can we find out?"
"It won't boot."
(Hosed.)
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
Yes, Dell is not saying it will cost X more per copy, because it will not.
Dell has more of a problem with restrictions on their bundles/spyware they load systems with and the kick backs they will lose with Windows7. Companies like Dell that bloatware their computers are more of a bane to the computing industry than anything MS has even done to harm the industry. PERIOD.
After Vista was released and we deployed a bunch of 'business' class Dell Notebooks, it was freaking insane the amount of Dell support, and 3rd party bloatware we had to stip off the systems.
Dell doesn't like MS we know this, and they make money from this bloatware, but really does this help users, especially when they were selling Vista Business with this crap on it?
And the Home units from Dell are even worse, as they were shipping out 512mb systems with Vista Home for a long time, which is bad enough as Vista really needs 1GB to run as fast as XP, but the bloatware Dell had on the system was consuming almost 260mb of RAM at startup.
No wonder the average consumer was POed and thought Vista sucked. I would have too if I wasn't in the industry and knew better. Which leads to the next point, Dell does have IT people and they DID know better, so why did they do it? Just for the extra kick back bucks at the expense of screwing their own customers.
So here we are again with Dell looking at the Bloatware kick backs they will be losing and going, dang, we have no way to get our crap kick backs, so they are once again speaking out.
It is just like the old anti-trust lawsuit, where Dell was more than willing to put nails into MS on the cross, yet they were the ones that 'opted' for the better conract OEM rates to do exclusive bundles, where lower end OEMs like the one I was at did not, and could sell Window-less systems.
These were 'exclusive' contracts that dated back to the old days of IBM that was still done in the software industry where an OS or piece of software was bundled at a lower rate if it went out on all the systems sold. Dell took the offer and then blamed MS for forcing them to save the 5-10 $ per copy it saved them. (Most of the big OEMs took the offer at the time, as they HAD NO INTENTION of shipping anything but Windows on the systems anyway. Yet when it came time to shove MS on the cross for 'daring' to offer these contracts, these same OEMs wanted more pricing control from MS and did exactly what they threatened and used the contracts against MS that the OEMs had enjoyed for many years. (While also keeps similar contracts with Wordperfect and other companies at the time they were testifying against MS for 'forcing' them to save the 5-10 bucks and do guaranteed bundles. Geesh)
I was with a smaller OEM, we paid about 5-10 $ a copy for Windows over what Gateway,Dell,HP, etc were paying MS, but we got the same levels of support from Microsoft. Microsoft offered us the contract, but we said no, cause we had some OS/2 and UNIX clients (Talking 1991-1999 here), so we paid a few bucks more for Windows, which was still cheaper than OS/2, and cheaper to support than UNIX, and we gave our customers the choice the industry somehow mythically believes didn't exist at this time.
MS didn't force Windows on all the name brand OEM machines, the OEMs did, and they are the ones that screwed people and dominated the market, it just happened they were selling Windows on the systems and designing around the Windows hardware model. -Go Look at 2D acceleration in the 90s, it was all based around Windows drawing and GDI.
Microsoft has already informed OEMs about the addition to more rigourous anti-virus abilities in the existing Win7 'Defender' product that is extending with MS Update to make anti-virus a thing of the past on Windows. This means that the kick back from Norton or McAfee could hurt their per unit sales, and this is just ONE example where Win7 will hurt Dell.
In this example, can you REALLY be POed at MS for tightening security and reliability of their product? Even on SlashDo
I hope that the next time your Linux using parents decide to go to walmart/bestbuy to get a printer they have the foresight to see if $linux_distro supports it.
I have yet to see a generally available device that linux supports which windows doesn't. I'm not the in business of playing "geek squad" for my family.
Maybe it's time to roll the dice.
I bought my printer on specs. At printer prices it would have been more value lost in labor with potential models trying to see if four successive versions of uBuntu (for example) support $random_printer.
Also I think this is price related. a $40 junk printer almost certainly is not. I wonder if the $200 models are more likely to magically just work.
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
I did not always resent MSFT. In fact as recently as 12 months ago I shelled out more than $300 to install Vista Ultimate 64 bit on my Dell computer. I was eager and excited to get the latest MSFT gadget. The reality was indeed disappointing. What is worse is that MSFT wants to charge me now another $300+ for a bug fix to an OS I already paid for. It's like going to the auto repair shop with your 1 year old Mercedes only to find out that the car is a lemon and that you have to buy a whole new car for the full sticker price. This in the same city were Porsches, Ferraris or Jaguars are free. Thanks but no thanks. I am writing this on my Ubuntu 9.04. I've had no problems installing it, and few problems using it - most of them quickly solved by a quick google search. No more MSFT for me, thank you, I've had plenty.
I wonder how many people will continue using XP after W7 comes out? They continued running XP after Vista was released and they'll continue running XP after W7 is released. Interesting that the local Microcenter makes a big deal of still having XP systems available (large font saying "XP Pro!" prominently displayed on each XP system).
Obviously, Microsoft will pull the support plug on XP at some point to force people off of it. They will claim it's due to cost and, since it generates no new revenue but costs money to support, they will be truthful to some extent. Sad commentary on their newer products that they have to resort to that to get people to "upgrade."
Cheers,
Dave
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither safety nor liberty.
Ben
hopefully once btrfs gets integrated properly there will be a 'snapshot' function before upgrading. don't like the new version? go back to the previous snapshot instantly and you are where you left off. would also be handy for large package installs/removals/upgrades etc.
We're talking about walking into Walmart and buying a random printer, not the latest and greatest from HP/Lexmark.
Joe/Jane Average want to do what you did, walk into a store and buy a computer device based purely on specs, whether it's a printer/scanner/all in one. Just like supporting chipsets and such, anything that is "more mainstream" is more likely to have support. Though over the life of a computer, if my folks have to buy the most mainstream products which in the case of HP/Lexmark are more expensive than the savings due to not having to buy windows, starts to diminish.
Ward continued, 'In tough economic times, I think it's naive to believe that you can increase your prices on average and then still see a stronger swell than if you held prices flat or even lowered them
Gee, ya think?
oh my god... it's full of stars!
Endorse Linux!
Theres nothing that would make the margins better for Dell, HP or anybody else pushing Windows boxes than selling Linux openly and with some ads. If Microsoft even hints at giving that OEM worse pricing a quick visit at EU and US justice would slap Microsoft silly. Just look at Asus and the extensive rebates they got, plus pure money down their pockets.
Even if selling Linux in itself would be a zero sum game the bargaining power would lower the total paid for Windows OEM licenses much more. If its highly successfull, screw Windows! Current attempts has been hidden, half baked and virtually impossible to find. A serious attempt at selling Linux would be very interesting.
If the various OEMs could stop acting like a bunch of girls stabbing each other in the back for that hunk Microsoft and band together they could really run the show again for the first time in ages.
HTTP/1.1 400
I liked that with the Amiga...
At the start of the manual, they showed you how to make a copy of your Workbench disks, and then said that no matter what you did with your new copies, worst case you just make new copies and start again.
You could do the same on Linux by creating a nonroot account...
http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
Usually recognized in the context of "Apple = Too Expensive".
So now you can spend ~$150 for the first time ever in that machine's life and get 10.4 on it.
Actually not even that much, you can buy a copy of Tiger on eBay $50 or less. The grandparent is trolling for shits and giggles, so no point in trying to refute him.
A fantastic link. Thanks, AC.
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law
Linux also remains pretty lame
I just can't stop wondering, isn't Vista owner entitled to a free upgrade to Windows7. Looks like a ploy to sell as many Vista machine as possible before releasing Windows7...
Microsoft were slapped in the face when consumers refused to hand over wads of cash for Vista like good little consumers. Microsoft spent way longer in their release cycle to get Vista out, and nobody wants it. They lost a LOT of income they would have been able to count in advance (judging by previous patterns). Microsoft need to make that loss up, so the logical option is to make Windows 7 more expensive, with more optional addons charged extra. Taking the previous model off the shelves also helps force the consumers hand when they won't buy your latest offering on merit.
;)
Personally I hope Microsoft REALLY jack the price up, make people aware that Windows costs money. They've gotten away with the illusion that Windows is free for far too long. The higher they jack the price to punish consumers, the more attractive Linux becomes to people who may not have considered it otherwise. We are in the middle of a recession right now, this will have a heavy bearing on how much people spend, and what they spend it on. Keep it up Steve, make sure not to give in on the three-app-only Starter Edition; it's a winner
People have been giving Linux away for free for years. But people choose to ignore that and stick with XP because they actually like XP. Microsoft needs to stop pushing a new OS on people, they should concentrate on making XP better.
Now if we could just get Dell to put a little drop down option in its OS & Productivity Suite selection to have an option for "Ubuntu & Open Office (subtract $200)" on all of their computers
This is the world of mass market retail:
There are marketing costs. There are inventory costs. There are costs for returns, service and support.
Maintaining a dual inventory and support structure is really, really, expensive.
Linux delivers little or nothing in after-market sales.
Linux is firmly anchored in the retailer's mind as a bottom-feeder.
The Ark of the Covenant would be easier to find than the mid-line OEM Linux PC desktop bundle with monitor and printer.
WalMart has never, ever, been able to consistently position OEM Linux at $50 below Windows.
$200 is fantasy.
If your employer has a volume licensing agreement with Microsoft, MS Office is yours for the price of the media plus S&H.
If you have student ID, it is $60.
Office Home and Student retail boxed with a three seat license is $90-$125 with a three seat license.
The real expense is consumables: ink and paper.
Having a friend that bought a Dell Studio (before they went to selling Ubuntu on Inspiron only)...
It ships with Fluendo and Power DVD Linux installed.
My friend immediately went to medibuntu and installed all the free equivalents--he paid for the licenses after all. He then then chmod 000'd all the powerdvd stuff.
This is being done to drive system sales NOW. People will avoid buying a Vista system and just wait till win7 hits. With Dell saying win7 will cost more it will motivate people to buy now instead of waiting. They will now think, well, i'll get a free upgrade to something that is ostensibly more expensive in the near future, so i'll buy now.
You are getting ripped off on your CD-R blanks. They cost more like $0.05.
I read the internet for the articles.
Is this really a bad thing, I actually see this being a positive outcome. I've been using releases of Windows 7 now for a while and I have noticed quite a few problems with it that could easily be fixed by any normal level headed programmer.
Dell has never really sided with the customer in mind, They say they support Linux installs to but when you really ask them what Linux installs they support that in fact just use the cookie cutter install which is not satisfactory under and circumstance.
Even if they do move forward with this idea to use Windows 7 there just introducing a new section of customer support.
How about instead of installing a OS with so many problems, that really is no better then Vista, they learn how to install Linux properly using maybe a stage 1 Gentoo install and send that out.
It's free and it can be upgraded for free when ever needed. All Dell would have to do is to add in a script to do all the user required update wise. Future more it could give schools a chance to teach a fair computer curriculum, I know I sure didn't get a fair one when I was in school.
As for businesses well I don't know why they still use Windows anyway, it's really an OS built on mistake thats been patched into barely working. Wouldn't it make more sense that when you have important files and data you'd want to see it secure and stored in a stable manor, doesn't seem like a hard problem to fix.
Dell should just scrap Windows support and save the customer any cost for OS install, besides it would help the world not hurt it. Say no to Windows Dell and open your computer to possibilities not limit it by mistakes!
Thanks
LinuxOverWindows
Businesses are leery about open source
Yes, that explains why Linux is running rampant through the data center. Businesses are obviously afraid to use open source software.
Granted, they're still buying support/indemnification from RedHat/HP/IBM...
*sigh* back to work...
Darrel Ward pulled a slight-of-hand here. Here's what he said:
"If there's one thing that may influence adoption, make things slower or cause customers to pause, it's that generally the ASPs (average selling price) of the operating systems are higher than they were for Vista and XP,"
and
"I can tell you that the licensing tiers at retail are more expensive than they were for Vista."
That Average Selling Price he mentioned... how is that calculated? Without knowing that, and knowing that retail prices will be higher... there's no indication that OEM prices are going up. Which is what Dell pays.
GLaDOS for President 2016! "Well here we are again. It's always such a pleasure." -- GLaDOS, 2011
So when will the Apple "Windows 7 Tax" commercials start rolling out?
I'm just sayin'....
"You can't really dust for vomit" --Nigel Tufnel
Notice that Ward never said the OEM price changed, only the retail price.
GLaDOS for President 2016! "Well here we are again. It's always such a pleasure." -- GLaDOS, 2011
I got two PCs that way. They were not completely free, but the $300 rebate from my 2-year-contract with MSN dropped the price to a mere 25 dollars.
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
Leading spray paint manufacturer needs to improve sales so they design a new paint line that....
1. Has prettier colors.
2. Costs more (to pay for aforementioned color improvement)
3. Doesn't run, or at least runs slowly.
4. Comes in a hard to open can to protect children from opening it.
Sounds like M$ operating system roadmap.
"You can't really dust for vomit" --Nigel Tufnel
Windows 7 might be more expensive, but after what I experienced today, I think I'll happily upgrade from XP to 7 when the time comes. Even at a higher price, it's STILL have to better than the Mac I've been using. A friend of mine just gave me his old Macintosh, and I thought that was cool, because I used to have a Quadra in the early 90s and loved it.
But alas, I was fooled. This OS 10.2 computer refuses to run even the most-basic websites like youtube.com due to Flash not being installed. I tried upgrading but ran into problems with Internet Explorer (crashed), Safari 1.0 (refuses to download any software, even later versions of itself), and Firefox 3 (crashed during installation - I'm stuck using FF2). When I finally got-around to installing the Adobe Flash Player, I was told I need to upgrade to 10.4, and it refused to run.
Wonderful. Like I have an extra $150 laying-around to buy OSX 10.4. No wonder my friend "gave" this Mac to me - he didn't want the hassle. C'mon Windows 7! No matter how bad you might be, you certainly can't be as bad as this Mac I'm typing on.
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
>>>Fuck off and die.
Recommendation: Don't ever work for a help desk. You're too arrogant to be helpful to people in need. You'd probably see a person hit by a car and then yell something like, "Maybe you should look before you cross the street!" as you step over their broken body.
There. That's called "flaming".
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
Well then, if Adobe barely supports anything but windows, how do Mac users play flash-based web content? Sounds like yet another reason not to buy a Mac.
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
>>>You act as if it's Apple's fault they've had almost 4 major OS releases in the time MS has had one
Yes. I do. Why would someone want to invest in a Mac, knowing that it will be effectively unusable only 4-5 years later? That's essentially what happened to my friend. This OS 10.2 Mac didn't cost me anything, but he probably spent $1500 for a machine that's now unusable a mere 5 years later. What a waste of money.
Contrast that with my XP machine which I bought in 2002 and I'm still able to use, and will probably keep using until 2012-13 when XP is no longer supported by Firefox or Flash. I'll have gotten 10 years out of this machine. I like machines that you can keep using for ten years (and save money), and it appears Macs don't fit that description.
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
Quoted for Truth:
Anonymous Coward wrote: "I have an old PC 2000 (with Windows 2000 and Slackware) and I was going to consider buying a Mac to replace it. Then you complained about OS X 10.2 not being able to display YouTube and the responses were: Modding your post to flamebait, being called an idiot, saying 'Why don't you fork the $160-something to upgrade' from OS 10.2 (that only lasted for 1 year), and later having your post being ironically moderated as "Funny."
"While I can easily imagine that you have an unusual problem (maybe hardware), I will also easily forget about buying a Mac."
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
But his point is that you can't EXPECT that with users that you sold a computer to. He's a person who makes money by selling computers. He'd like to sell Linux computers. He's tried to do so, but he runs into the simple problem that his customers don't WANT Linux computers (or for that matter Windows computers), they want computers that will work "all the time - every time" (or at least the vast majority of the time) with whatever was cheap this week at Walmart or Best Buy. What ever game they picked up, whatever printer they saw on sale, whatever the cheapest USB TV tuner they happened to see. They don't care about software freedom. They don't care about stability under load. They aren't interested in doing research before purchasing whatever dodad in the computer aisle strikes their fancy.
And if you are the person that sold them the computer, when they can't use $dodad, it's YOUR fault. No, not really; but hey, you sold them a 1 year warranty. It is obvious and clear in their minds that worked with the latest USB controlled back scratcher is part of "working" and they would like you to "fix" their computer as you "agreed" to do. Are they right? No, probably not, but if enough of them think they are it can hurt your business, not to mention being really irritating when you have to field the calls. There's even the chance of a lawsuit from someone with too much time, too much money, or a kid who's a lawyer. For you, it a matter of choice to support your family and friends, for a systems integrator it's their job.
I don't need a million points of light, just two points of multi-mode fiber and a 10 Gig-E router.
No semi-annual means twice a year, or every half-year.
Biannual, like bimonthly, means every other year/month.
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
>>>So now you can spend ~$150 for the first time ever in that machine's life and get 10.4 on it.
Yeah I see your point. I guess my problem is that I'm spoiled. With my XP-PC I haven't spent a single upgrade dollar since 2002, because it's still supported even after all this time, and any updates (like when I moved to XP-SP2) are completely free. Even my old Win98 laptop is still supported by programs like Firefox and Flash, and that's ~11 years old.
I'm not used to an OS where the lifespan is only half a decade. To me that's too soon to send 10.2 into retirement. From my viewpoint Mac OSes should be fully-supported all the way back to 10.0.
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
When two anonymous cowards with (0) scores talk to one another, does anybody see them? I suspect it's like a falling tree in an empty forest... there is no one around to hear it. ;-)
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
...that's really silly considering there is a Mac version of Red Alert.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
A lot of core APIs were still forming then which exacerbates things.
There, fixed that for ya!
about what they say here maybe you should review your own past threads to see if there's something other people saw that you didn't.
Because sometimes, you know, I don't get the trick the first six times either.
Help stamp out iliturcy.
It was more for comparison than anything, but if you want to be pedantic let's pretend I live 200 miles from the nearest store.