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Solution For College's Bad Network Policy?

DAMN MY LIFE writes "I'm going to Central Michigan University in the fall. Upon examination of their poorly organized network usage policies, I'm worried that using their internet service will expose my web browsing habits, emails, and most importantly, passwords. Another concern I have is the 'Client Security Agent' that students are required to install and leave on their systems to use the network. Through this application, the IT department scans everyone's computer for what they claim are network security purposes. Of course, scanning a person's hard drive can turn up all kinds of things that are personal. Do all colleges have such extreme measures in place? Is there any way that I can avoid this? There are no wireless broadband providers available in the area, I already checked."

699 comments

  1. Solution For College's Bad Network Policy? by John+Hasler · · Score: 5, Insightful

    A different college.

    --
    Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
    1. Re:Solution For College's Bad Network Policy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Set up a VPN server using OpenVPN on a remote site and then run the OpenVPN client on your PC. All traffic will then be encrypted on the college network.

      Using a virtual machine and TrueCrypt can also save you from additional headaches.

      This assumes that you at least have sufficient rights on the client PC.

    2. Re:Solution For College's Bad Network Policy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just keep your nose clean for a few years.

      Oh.. right, it's college. Sorry.

    3. Re:Solution For College's Bad Network Policy? by tech_freak'n_stuff · · Score: 2, Funny

      A different college.

      yes, but wat if: there was a zombie apocalypse and that college was the only surving college in the united states, then BANG! there's another problem.

      --
      shotgun your computer. Cancel or Allow?
    4. Re:Solution For College's Bad Network Policy? by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      A lot of freshman have no choice but to live on campus. Until he becomes a sophomore and is allowed to get an off-campus apartment, he could try these ideas:

      - Just hook-up your computer directly to the ethernet port without installing the spyware, and see if it works
      - If not, use a dialup provider through your phone line as I did when I was in college. It's slower but they can't spy on you.
      ----- or have two computers. Most of us have old laptops or whatever laying around. Use the old one for the college net, and the good machine for your personal stuff.
      ----- or use the computer lab to access the net.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    5. Re:Solution For College's Bad Network Policy? by ivucica · · Score: 1

      And what about "Client Security Engine"?

    6. Re:Solution For College's Bad Network Policy? by Eggplant62 · · Score: 1

      Dump Windows and run Linux. Can't be that many programs left that you need to run in Windows.

    7. Re:Solution For College's Bad Network Policy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      This is shitty advice and you know it. The asker is already enrolled. At least you could have given advice that was untenable AND pithy, but it appears that your sense of vanity has mislead you.

    8. Re:Solution For College's Bad Network Policy? by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 3, Insightful

      And then you don't get on their network. You're not grasping the concept here--you don't use their trojan, you don't get a connection.

    9. Re:Solution For College's Bad Network Policy? by 313373_bot · · Score: 3, Insightful

      As the GP suggests, keeping the sensitive material in an encrypted VM which accesses the net via VPN should be enough, unless the so called "Client Security Engine" includes keylogging or screen capturing functionalities, begging the question: how far can they spy on their students? Shouldn't they have privacy to do their online banking, exchange private e-mail, access medical records, or many other *perfectly legal* activities?

      --
      ^[:q!
    10. Re:Solution For College's Bad Network Policy? by Dun+Malg · · Score: 1

      what? "while"? I'd miss the money shot!

      --
      If a job's not worth doing, it's not worth doing right.
    11. Re:Solution For College's Bad Network Policy? by bhtooefr · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Run their trojan in WINE, in an account that can't do anything?

    12. Re:Solution For College's Bad Network Policy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      She died about thirty years ago and was cremated, then her ashes were spread. So you're basically masturbating.

    13. Re:Solution For College's Bad Network Policy? by ivucica · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And if that doesn't work?

    14. Re:Solution For College's Bad Network Policy? by ivucica · · Score: 3, Insightful

      So the only solution is to destroy that little convenience he shall have by getting access onto their network, by having to do all his work in a VM?

      What about development? Let's theorize that the poster is a programmer. Should he, in spare time, do all the compiling in a VM, for the convenience of being able to do svn/cvs/git commit?

      Academia in the whole world has gone nuts. I understand blocking access to content, but invading the privacy of my laptop is too much. I'd rather not use their crappy network at all. They'd have to give me a laptop to force me; I wouldn't install their spyware onto my private property.

      Worst of all is that, in US, you guys are even paying full tuition, without any (or with little) state sponsorship for the academia. It's incredible that you guys are not fed up with it. Over here in Croatia, students have been protesting and blocking normal functioning of university departments for three weeks - because our Minister of Education is trying to push paying for education even for our "best and brightest". And US students are dozing off happily and enjoying this kind of shit ... and PAYING for it. What the fuck.

    15. Re:Solution For College's Bad Network Policy? by Thinboy00 · · Score: 1

      Alternately whine to IT and HR^H^H whoever's in charge of IT until they let you on:
      You:"I run Linux. I tried to run your stupid program^H^H^H^H the client thing in Wine, but it didn't work. You're supposed to get the whole school online, fix it!"

      --
      $ make available
    16. Re:Solution For College's Bad Network Policy? by Thinboy00 · · Score: 1

      What are you talking about?? We're concerned about keyloggers, which are client side. HTTPS doesn't come into play until the keylogger already has your password. This lets them have all passwords, not just passwords for school-sponsered sites. Finally, this has nothing to do with criminal activity. Would you like your college to know your bank account info, and handle it poorly?

      Note: I am operating under the assumption that previous posters made: that the so-called "client" thing is in fact a keylogger/malware.

      --
      $ make available
    17. Re:Solution For College's Bad Network Policy? by SydShamino · · Score: 1

      He needs three computers:
      1. One with the security software installed, which he can use as a proxy. He has to carry this one around with him.
      2. One at a remote site with a VPN.
      3. The computer he actually uses, which he also must carry.

      Connect the computer he actually uses via hard wire, bluetooth, etc., to the proxy machine. Connect to the campus network using the proxy machine. It has the client software, but it has nothing else on it to protect his privacy. Then, VPN from his machine, through the proxy, to the remote server.

      If he can install their client software in a virtual machine on his computer, and then route internet access on that machine through the VM, it could save lugging around a second computer.

      Or he could tether to a phone. I'm certain he could get a data plan for an iPhone or similar and take his access that way.

      --
      It doesn't hurt to be nice.
    18. Re:Solution For College's Bad Network Policy? by ivucica · · Score: 1

      "Hahahahaha, idiot! We give you free MSDNAA licenses for Windows, why don't you use that?!" At least that's the general sad attitude at my Faculty[1].

      [1] In my country, subunit of university, and not a name for Faculty's staff.

    19. Re:Solution For College's Bad Network Policy? by zedeler · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Here is the bottom line. If the campus system is not to your liking, and you absolutely cannot refrain from criminal activity on your computer, and you cannot get into another school, then buy a wire cellular broadband connection.

      This is just the classical "only criminals have something to hide", and I flat out don't agree. There are plenty of other reasons to insist not to have your privacy invaded - just one is that your passwords may be abused by some undergraduate dork working in the IT department.

      Also, I find your comments regarding freedom and how it must be deserved are patronizing and completely missing the point.

    20. Re:Solution For College's Bad Network Policy? by ivucica · · Score: 1

      Don't worry, dean is probably the one that made the deal with Microsoft. If he didn't, he did, but he's keeping it secret. Because that's what it's all about. And sadly, I'm not being paranoid here, because I've observed with my own eyes why deans obsessed with .Net should perhaps not become deans, or be influential at all.

    21. Re:Solution For College's Bad Network Policy? by jonbryce · · Score: 1

      Run that in a virtual machine

    22. Re:Solution For College's Bad Network Policy? by Atti+K. · · Score: 1

      Or just get a Mac. If you need Windows, run it in a VM. Without installing their client security shit, of course.

      --
      .sig: No such file or directory
    23. Re:Solution For College's Bad Network Policy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Come to Bucknell. We can pretty much do anything on our network so long as its within the 10GB over a 3 day rolling period. Also we have a top 10 engineering program and are one of the top liberal arts colleges in the nation.... so long as you dont care about how bad our athletics are for D1, but we are nerds so why should we care.

    24. Re:Solution For College's Bad Network Policy? by warpuck · · Score: 1

      Most Universities are thought regurgitation factories. This is just one of the tools used to bend your thoughts conform to policy. Buffett, Gates, Jobs and Wozniak would not have succeeded had they followed the conformed thinking required to graduate. Remember they kicked the top 1% of the grads recruited by IBM, HP, DEC, Burroughs, Xerox...off the top of the heap. Remember a good Civil Serpent Does not think outside the box and WMU is a Michigan public institution. Resistance is futile. Use a yard sale XP computer for their network and WMU stuff only. Use a separate Verizon or Sprint wireless computer for everthing else. If that requires travel off campus, do it.

    25. Re:Solution For College's Bad Network Policy? by 313373_bot · · Score: 1

      It's incredible that you guys are not fed up with it.

      That is the point. Paraphrasing another article about P2P, people are playing a cat and mouse game and the mouse may keep evading the cat almost indefinitely, via encryption and other tools. It is a waste of time and resources, I agree, gaming the network admins should not be a student's concern. What I was trying to say is that their snooping may be borderline illegal, but on the other hand, fighting the system has its costs, too. My sympathy goes for your situation in Croatia, but I'm pessimistic about the U.S. and overall.

      --
      ^[:q!
    26. Re:Solution For College's Bad Network Policy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or install the trojan in a virtual machine.

      And personal computing was meant to make our lives EASIER.

    27. Re:Solution For College's Bad Network Policy? by FooAtWFU · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It works like this.

      People: "College is soo expensive!"

      Government: "Here are subsidies for schools, and for student loans!"

      College A: "Hmm, look, money! We could build some spiffy new facilities that'll look good on the tour, and attract a slightly richer set of people!"

      College B: "Hmm, look, money! Good thing, too, because otherwise we couldn't keep up with College A and C. We need nicer stuff to attract the same students. And besides, what university administration doesn't like spiffy-looking new facilities?"

      People: "College is still soo expensive!!"

      Throwing money at colleges in the US may produce a variety of desirable effects. However, "cheaper college education for all" is not necessarily among them. Universities are experts at price discrimination (the art of charging someone as much as you can get away with). They even have you fill out forms ("financial aid") so they can figure out exactly how much to charge you!

      --
      The World Wide Web is dying. Soon, we shall have only the Internet.
    28. Re:Solution For College's Bad Network Policy? by ivucica · · Score: 1

      Sounds like Senate and Congress, as well as state institutions, have some things to cover through laws, eh? :)

      It's quite simple, limit the tuition they can charge through the law, thus making sure they're primarily spending their funds on students, and only afterwards on new facilities. There will definitely be resistance, but some reforms need to be done. Education needs to be easily accessible to as many people as possible, and any nation that doesn't understand this... well, I don't feel a particular need to finish that sentence.

    29. Re:Solution For College's Bad Network Policy? by ivucica · · Score: 1

      I'm more concerned that you guys are also paying to be mistreated :/

    30. Re:Solution For College's Bad Network Policy? by mysidia · · Score: 2, Informative

      Maybe VMware Thinapp in Sandbox mode?

    31. Re:Solution For College's Bad Network Policy? by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 4, Informative

      Maybe VMware Thinapp in Sandbox mode?

      Or just give them a full-blown VM with an installation of XP and nothing else.
      Set up the physical network interface so that only the VM uses it, and use virtual interfaces to route from the host OS to the VM and then out to the network.
      You can run a NAT firewall (XP's connection sharing might be good enough) on the VM.

      If you are feeling ultra-paranoid you could install typical applications in there too, like MS Office, etc. So if they look at everything on the VM it will look like a regular college-kid computer, but unless they are really smart they will never know that the "real" computer is just using the VM to NAT out to their network.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    32. Re:Solution For College's Bad Network Policy? by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 3, Insightful

      So the only solution is to destroy that little convenience he shall have by getting access onto their network, by having to do all his work in a VM?

      Nah, that's backwards. Use the VM as a router/firewall to the campus network and install the campus spyware inside the VM. Then use the bare-metal for all the real work. If he sets up the VM right it will act just like a NAT firewall and unless someone logs in and really starts looking at what the VM is doing (rather than just what files are installed in it) campus IT will never be the wiser.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    33. Re:Solution For College's Bad Network Policy? by ivucica · · Score: 1

      Yes, that might work.

      Let's just hope that this tool only monitors files on his computer and communicates them to the base. It could also monitor some other stuff, like names of hardware equipment, such as VMWARE CD-ROM DRIVE or whatever.

      Or it may insist on talking directly to its network. Or it may actually be responsible for authenticating the detected MAC address.

      Who knows.

    34. Re:Solution For College's Bad Network Policy? by Kalriath · · Score: 1

      Uh, I have to take the uni's side on this one - they aren't invading your privacy by enforcing network security on their network (key word: their). If you don't like their policies, then ask them to change them. If they don't, then that's their decision, then you should use a different network (like 3G broadband or dial-up).

      Also, software like Cisco Clean Access does NOT log keys, report running programs, or even report back anything short of "This PC is clean" (it's a bit like World of Warcraft actually) so I don't know where all that crap about logging passwords and shit is coming from.

      --
      For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".
    35. Re:Solution For College's Bad Network Policy? by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Let's just hope that this tool only monitors files on his computer and communicates them to the base. It could also monitor some other stuff, like names of hardware equipment, such as VMWARE CD-ROM DRIVE or whatever.

      Pretty much any of that can be configured out of the VM in one way or another. Worst case he can use Xen which, being open source, can be completely modified to report anything.

      Or it may insist on talking directly to its network. Or it may actually be responsible for authenticating the detected MAC address.

      Not a problem. MAC addresses are full programable and the virtual nic maps directly to the physical nic - i.e. it hands packets directly to the physical nic, fully formed and vice versa. I'm doing something very similar at home right now - running pfsense in a vmware machine on a Windows XP host as my internet firewall. I disabled the all of XP's ip protocols on the wan nic so that the pfsense firewall runs the entire show on that physical nic.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    36. Re:Solution For College's Bad Network Policy? by ae1294 · · Score: 1

      VMWARE CD-ROM DRIVE

      INF files and the Windows Registry can be edited. I dought anyone went to the trouble of scanning the hardware when they can just read the info from the registry...

    37. Re:Solution For College's Bad Network Policy? by hazem · · Score: 2, Informative

      A technical solution that "gets around" it will most likely get you suspended; it's happened before:
      http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/04/27/203232

      (and a good friend of mine who was a professor also was denied tenure over this incident). Sadly IT at universities tends to be a little kingdom of people who think they are more important than everything else going on - in fact, this isn't just at universities...

      The best thing you can do is go to the dean of the school you're planning to attend and say, "gee, I was really looking forward to attending your university, but I will not attend if I have to install this monitoring software to use the network.".

      Deans care a whole lot about enrollment numbers and having good students and if they are going to lose good student due to a stupid policy, there will be pressure to alter the policy or at least grant an exception.

      Good luck.

    38. Re:Solution For College's Bad Network Policy? by walshy007 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      To be fair, I've been a linux user over a decade, and upon returning to uni one of the first programming courses I had was .net with microsoft everywhere. So I setup a development environment with monodevelop and mono.

      Development has been rather painless so far at least for CLI programs, and the resulting binaries run with the .net framework aswell as mono, on linux, windows and mac.

      The moment I no longer need to use c# I'll instantly go back to c++ and c coding. Even in instances where your uni 'makes' you use microsoft stuff, linux is so flexible nowadays that there is almost always some way to do it in linux without them being any the wiser.

    39. Re:Solution For College's Bad Network Policy? by DJRumpy · · Score: 1

      I for one welcome our new Zombie Apocalypse Overlords...

    40. Re:Solution For College's Bad Network Policy? by DJRumpy · · Score: 1

      It's more likely this agent is nothing more complex than a monitor to ensure you have a proper virus scan and dat version, and possibly a required firewall product. Did they give you any information on what the agent does? I would think they could disclose at least some information about it. Failing that, buy a cellular card and skip the local network.

    41. Re:Solution For College's Bad Network Policy? by MaskedSlacker · · Score: 1

      But with dirt for lube.

    42. Re:Solution For College's Bad Network Policy? by MaskedSlacker · · Score: 1

      Teach me your ways.

    43. Re:Solution For College's Bad Network Policy? by lwsimon · · Score: 1

      I dropped out of college in '03 because I was a moron, and eventually got a good job at a Fortune 100 company. Now I'm wanting to go back, but I don't think I could subject myself to any of the programming curricula around here - its all .NET or Java.

      I'd love to see an online college that offered a F/OSS programming degree. Maybe start in C, then move to Common Lisp, then Python and Javascript. I'd take that in a heartbeat. As-is, I'm thinking of going for art or something, and stay as far away from their IT drones as possible.

      --
      Learn about Photography Basics.
    44. Re:Solution For College's Bad Network Policy? by lwsimon · · Score: 1

      When you make loan funding available to colleges, they loosen lending standards for student aid. That allows more people to apply for enrollment, which in turn allows the colleges to charge more for tuition and still fill their Freshman class.

      Making money available for college is the cause of the problem, not the solution.

      --
      Learn about Photography Basics.
    45. Re:Solution For College's Bad Network Policy? by celle · · Score: 1

      You missed something. The university has the right to protect their network on their hardware not your hardware. They can watch the behavior from their servers, what is on or passes through your machine is none of their business until it reaches their hardware.

    46. Re:Solution For College's Bad Network Policy? by MacColossus · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I work in the IT department of a college. We started implementing more network security after blaster and welchia on student machines brought down the entire campus network. We segregated the dorm to a different physical network from the academic network. We bought antivirus for every student so they would no longer have a reason not to have it. Turned off cross talk between ports on the student side so they wouldn't infect each other over the network. On the Academic side we do require Cisco Clean Access agent to use the campus wireless to access intranet resources. It checks to see if Antivirus is installed and relatively up to date. It also checks for OS security patches. If you don't want to install the Clean Access agent, you don't have to. We provide guest access for those that don't. They however have access to no intranet resources and are limited to 256k. We don't scan for files, we don't do key logging. The only way I see illegal filesharing is when they are on the same subnet as me and I happen to have Itunes open. Limewire, Frostwire and several other leet virus vectors that students run use multicast dns (bon jour) to broadcast "susie jo's limewire tunes" which shows up under shared in Itunes. Only when an idiot insists upon broadcasting and sticking this in my face do I open a multicast dns browser to get the IP. I then go into the Cisco Clean Access Manager to see who has that ip address (Cisco is tied into our directory services.) I then go to their Facebook profile which is always wide open and call the cell number they have posted there publicly and politely request they discontinue the activity pursuant to the campus network policy as published in the student handbook. In the very rare circumstance they actually were smart enough to not leave Facebook open to the world I send them a polite email.

    47. Re:Solution For College's Bad Network Policy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      they aren't invading your privacy by enforcing network security on their network
      Then the traffic I send, not the data I store, is what they have a legitimate interest in.

    48. Re:Solution For College's Bad Network Policy? by wisty · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You do it like the Australian PBS shakes down big pharma.

      An Australian agency does a cost-benefit analysis on the "product" getting offered. If the price is right, and the "product" (i.e. course) is beneficial*** then you offer a subsidy. If the cost-benefit is not there, you don't subsidize.

      The agency is completely isolated from Parliament (to prevent corruption)

      * Or if the Fed is too wasteful, state based agencies**
      ** Actually, merge some of your states - California and Idaho should not be in the same category

      *** the benefits of education (especially higher education) are very very hard to judge, especially if there is some chance that the metric will be gamed. Targeting student-teacher ratios can reduce admin / building overheads, but it also cuts research. Targeting graduate salaries can just make schools pick privileged, well connected students. Student satisfaction (which Australia targets) is risky - as it reduces rigor. Targeting research is also a nightmare (as researches then game the metric). Subjective judgments are open to lobbying.

      Education is just one of those wicked problems where the free market isn't ideal (as students are too poor and too inexperienced to make their own decisions, and it's a return to feudalism if rich kids are the only ones who get a good education), but the state can't just set some metrics and create a pseudo-market by dishing out subsidies. Health is another.

    49. Re:Solution For College's Bad Network Policy? by uvajed_ekil · · Score: 1

      Don't worry, dean is probably the one that made the deal with Microsoft. If he didn't, he did, but he's keeping it secret. Because that's what it's all about. And sadly, I'm not being paranoid here, because I've observed with my own eyes why deans obsessed with .Net should perhaps not become deans, or be influential at all.

      At my alma mater, I think it took more than a dean's decree to cut huge deals with major corporations. A particular associate dean at the university also helped me out of a sticky situation once, and on two occasions allowed me to bypass arbitrary requirements that made no sense in my situation. So I agree with the earlier comment, which said to ask a dean for an exemption. Getting to talk to a dean may be the hardest part here. In my experience, deans can be very reasonable, and less concerned with bureaucratic practices and following poorly formulated rules than with doing what is right and using their considerable discretion to help good customers.

      --
      This is a hacked account, for which the owner can not be held responsible.
    50. Re:Solution For College's Bad Network Policy? by dave87656 · · Score: 1

      I'm assuming that their trojan is a Windows program installed and running as a full privileged service or background process, much like anti-virus software.

      I'll bet they don't allow Linux.

    51. Re:Solution For College's Bad Network Policy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You will get a connection with the virtual machine. You just have to do all your browsing and network activity from within the virtual machine.

    52. Re:Solution For College's Bad Network Policy? by spasm · · Score: 1

      Don't forget to write a very polite letter to them explaining why you're not accepting their offer.

    53. Re:Solution For College's Bad Network Policy? by sowth · · Score: 2, Interesting

      "Everyone needs a college education" is a scam created by the baby boomers. They use higher and higher education / experience requirements so they can lock out the next generations from the workforce. The previous generation, they used a "overqualified" scam as an excuse to not hire older people. They also used any excuse to fire / lay off the older people to scam them out of pensions. After the bailout scam, there may not be any higher paying jobs anyway.

      Be practical. Don't bother going to college unless:

      • you are already set up with a specific company when you graduate, and you are sure you want this career path. Preferably you will already have a deal to be a paid intern while you are taking classes. The company may even pay your way if you do it right.
      • You are using your education to learn how to run your own business and you already have an idea what kind of business you will run and have a good idea how you will be funded.

      Otherwise you are just going to end up with huge loans to pay off while you end up flipping burgers for the rest of your life. Have fun barely surviving, while if you didn't go on to higher education, you'd at least be able to take care of yourself and maybe save some money.

      Have a real plan people. Figure out what you want to do before you go on to "higher" education. Be sure going to school will fit your goal and you will get a higher paying job, which is the real reason to go to school, not some abstract notion of being "educated" and "well rounded" or following in someone's footsteps. If you want to educate yourself, read books, try things out yourself. It is much cheaper.

    54. Re:Solution For College's Bad Network Policy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      get a life. as much as a downed network is your responsibility enforcing the law is not. so stop doing it. the network segregating seems to be a stupid 'security' measure. every system that connects should be independent and not effect other students. ISP have no problems with it and neither should schools. buying students anti-virus is unethical, unfair and a waste of students $$$-. AS IS spying via cisco or using limewires, itunes, or facebook. stop the dammed coddling. if i wore in charge IT would be banned from (policy) investigations of individuals / IP / users usage.

    55. Re:Solution For College's Bad Network Policy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The reason is simple btw... whenever people put up with shit and victimize themselves, it's because they think they NEED to do so, because they think they NEED a college degree to have a life in the first place, and NEED the approval of the people pushing agendas like these to get it...

      They're not free and independent.  They're needy, easy victims.

      They've been taught to think that way.  And intimidated until they believed it.  By their parents, school, everyone.

      Welcome to the free society!

    56. Re:Solution For College's Bad Network Policy? by silvakow · · Score: 2, Informative

      You probably think that's funny, but I appled to and got accepted to Central Michigan University in 2001 and decided not to attend because of a bad conversation with a sysadmin where he told me students should not have the ability to host any type of content. I went to (relatively) neighboring Grand Vallley State University (gvsu.edu) instead, and I'm glad I did.

      --
      In the long run, we're all dead.
    57. Re:Solution For College's Bad Network Policy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Here in the states, Congress and the Feds are requiring any university or college that gets federal student aid to adopt similar network policies.

      And when a school does have a policy like this, you have to agree to it and then can be bounced for circumventing it.

    58. Re:Solution For College's Bad Network Policy? by bootup · · Score: 2, Interesting

      this is why you should venture out into the real world sometimes and do what is demanded to the extent you can't avoid it-and all the while not avoiding it bitch and moan until they fix it. i bitched for 3 years about my computer science program's requirement that students take a course in visual basic. that was only a core requirement for one of the two 'tracks' or sets of core courses depending on which track you were in. choice was software development or information technology. both cs degrees. anyway. point is after pointing out how hypocritical it was to require a course in visual basic when professors were saying that the difference between a university and a tech school was that a tech school taught tools and a university teaches concepts. clearly vb is a tool not a concept. before i left they dropped vb as a core requirement of the IT track. i didn't win every battle but 1/10 still makes the world a better place.

    59. Re:Solution For College's Bad Network Policy? by frisket · · Score: 1

      ...Shouldn't they have privacy to do their online banking, exchange private e-mail, access medical records, or many other *perfectly legal* activities?

      In the eyes of the administrators, no. They're in college, using a network provided by the college to do college stuff: access the library, write their essays, do their coursework, access Blackboard/Moodle/whatever, and email their tutor. If they browse the web, sign up to mailing lists, download stuff, or anything else, that's fine if it's for their work. If they want to do online banking, exchange private e-mail, access medical records, or many other *perfectly legal* activities, they should use a home/cafe/public connection. The concept that the institution should be helping the students learn a bit more about life, the universe, and everything, has never crossed the minds of the college administrators.

      Apart from the bureaucrats being naive and computer-illiterate, every institution seems to be getting more and more IT center staff who have never seen anything except Microsoft, who are unwilling to learn anything new unless it's provided by Microsoft, who are joined at the hip to Microsoft by contracts, and who have absolutely no clue about the Real World[tm] outside the Microsoft fold. Not only are they doing their students and institution a serious disservice (and costing them unnecessary money), they (and the little trolls in HR who hired them) are helping to perpetuate the problem.

      It's nice to see that even in these straitened days, colleges still have plenty of money to pursue these policies.

    60. Re:Solution For College's Bad Network Policy? by Alien54 · · Score: 2, Informative

      The Client Security Agent appears to be another bit of Microsoft Madness

      Which appears to require MS Windows.

      Given the the classicly high rate of computer infection among teens, this could be make sense for the school administration. Of course, it might be easier if they just required everyone to just get a Mac.

      --
      "It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
    61. Re:Solution For College's Bad Network Policy? by cynyr · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Does cisco clean access work on bsd/linux/macosx/an arm device/my smart phone with wifi/etc? if not what is the policy about those devices? This is always been my problem with things like Cisco clean access. If i have a perfectly good AV system that clean access doesn't know about, then i get reported as not having up to data AV software and i have to jump though hoops to get i t added, or told to take it off, and install the copy that the school used my money to buy for me. GL with all the ARM netbooks that are susposted to be comming out in the ~$200 range. I bet Clean Access doesn't run on ARM Ubuntu. I remember when my Uni (Northern Michigan University) had all sorts of problems when the iPhone came out, took down parts of our wireless network. Also i remeber that policy that the helpdesk would help get any device connected to the network. This was made fun by the Wii, it needs to get to nintendo.com as part of the setup, and regerstering a game machnine required that it be connected to the network. IDK how many times i swaped mac ADDRs to the Wii's and then had people register the Wii as a computer.

      --
      All of the above was encrypted with a Quad ROT-13 method. Unauthorized decryption is in violation of the DMCA.
    62. Re:Solution For College's Bad Network Policy? by ivucica · · Score: 1

      When you're forced to go in a team with other, Windows-infested students, this doesn't work.

      When you're forced to work with MSSQL (obligatory) this doesn't work.

      When you're forced to work with Crystal Reports (obligatory) this doesn't work.

      When you're forced to work with MS Project (obligatory) this doesn't work.

      When you're forced to work with ... well, you get my point.

      Guess what the class I unwillingly enrolled in combines. I tried using Monodevelop for the first week, and quite enthusiastically, too. Unfortunately, professor's assistants that are grading the work simply have no understanding for GNU/Linux users' woes, and there's no plan in place when someone doesn't want to or can't use .Net.

      And the ultimate response: "We gave you the software through MSDNAA, plus you can come to work on faculty [uni] computers. You have no excuse." They could add "You have no chance to survive make your time", or "We will add your biological and technological distinctivenesses to our own", based on one's preferences.

      PS Python rules :)

    63. Re:Solution For College's Bad Network Policy? by numbski · · Score: 1

      I'm thinking this:

      Run as stripped down and minimal of an install of windows as feasible. Install their "trojan". Establish your network connection.

      Then install VMWare server, VirtualBox, or whatever. Use a NAT network connection, and install Linux inside of your VM. Problem solved.

      The other option is to grab a POS PC, install their trojan on it, enable Internet Connection sharing, and slap it in a closet, hooked to a switch. Hook your "real" machine to the switch. Again, problem solved.

      --

      Karma: Chameleon (mostly due to the fact that you come and go).

    64. Re:Solution For College's Bad Network Policy? by ivucica · · Score: 1

      You don't understand, the dean is the one that made the deal, and used to be the head of the most pro-MS department. And I don't think the associate deans[1] care; they'll just say "It's faculty programme, OBEY." There are people trying to raise awareness among students that this is unacceptable (forcing particular software when there are acceptable alternatives) but they're ridiculed. At least I was when I tried.

      [1] I assume this means the same as Croatian "prodekan" -- approximately vice-dean assigned to a job, such as "prodekan za nastavu" - for classes.

    65. Re:Solution For College's Bad Network Policy? by ottothecow · · Score: 2, Informative
      The university of chicago's CS program is pretty heavy on open source.

      I didnt major in CS but all of the classes I took, except for the first intro sequence class (which was Dr. Scheme on OSX because the lab was larger) were run from the standpoint of linux (the lab machines ran debian but a lot of people went for their own installs or made OSX work for some stuff).

      The classes I took started in Scheme (Common Lisp would have worked but DrScheme was a good teaching environment). They then pushed into C with some bash stuff thrown in occasionally. The systems class was (obviously) done in C. Other sequences threw in Python at some point and my understanding was that the later classes were open to language choice for the most part (your group has to agree on something, and the professor may provide code samples in Java but as long as you could do the projects, you should be fine).

      As to art...I just finished an art class where most of my final project was conducted through an ssh terminal on one of those aforementioned linux maxhines (I had need for both the dual xeons and the gigabit academic connection vs my eeepc and cable modem). Project ended up involving a bunch of coding in Python on the data end and Processing (a java extension for artists) on the display/rendering side.

      I haven't once seen .Net in use and I am still not entirely sure how one properly writes a program for windows since c:\gcc gets an unrecognized command

      --
      Bottles.
    66. Re:Solution For College's Bad Network Policy? by Johan+Welin · · Score: 1

      No one should not accept anything like this. This is a pure invasion of privacy. No one has the right to know *anything* about your private thoughts (unless you opt-in). No one has the right to know, or judge, _anything_ of what you create or collect for your your artwork. And no-one has the right to make any statement reg. the judgement on who you communicate with. My guess is that a very few %/%/%*n is related to terrorism (if so, close to 100% of the population are considered terrorists..:_) Or worse, file-sharers which _really_should hurt the community .. Yes (Who knows these days..)

    67. Re:Solution For College's Bad Network Policy? by Inquisitor911 · · Score: 1

      A good tool for helping to protect yourself from Keyloggers is KeyScrambler. It encrypts your keystrokes as you type. I've tested it against a few free and commercial keyloggers, and it does the trick. The keylogger's logs show only scrambled keystrokes.

      The free version protects your keystrokes in IE and Mozilla Firefox.

    68. Re:Solution For College's Bad Network Policy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I use to goto central and work for IT, the all the CSA does is makes sure you have an up to date antivirus ( they provide one but you can pretty much use any AV you want). it also makes sure the machine is up to date if you are running windows, and scans for things like limewire because it is against the network terms of usage to have them, It also registers your machine for network use in bradford, and then it deletes itself and you have access. After that point the mac address is registered under your username and you are only forced to re register if you go over your band width quota, become infected or at the beginning of a new fall semester.

      They don't care what you do on the network, when you go over your bandwidth quota they don't even check the reason you went over if you call in to find out they have to go through your logs and look for the port to see what caused it.

      The quota lasts from sunday to sunday.

      This all only applies to the residential network though, so if you aren't in a dorm room then you aren't capped.

      Also they do use WPA2 radius wireless networks so you wont be transmitting in the open.

      You can also use whatever operating system you want, when you goto register your machine if it detects that you are running a mac or a version of linux then it skips the CSA and just lets you in.

      The CSA was put in place to keep the network safe from windows users who have no clue what they are doing and the bandwidth quotas were put in place to keep 5 people from using 90% of the bandwidth on campus.

      you are all blowing this out of proportion.

    69. Re:Solution For College's Bad Network Policy? by sladeslader · · Score: 1

      hughesnet.com

    70. Re:Solution For College's Bad Network Policy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I work in the IT department of a college. We started implementing more network security after blaster and welchia on student machines brought down the entire campus network. We segregated the dorm to a different physical network from the academic network. We bought antivirus for every student so they would no longer have a reason not to have it. Turned off cross talk between ports on the student side so they wouldn't infect each other over the network. On the Academic side we do require Cisco Clean Access agent to use the campus wireless to access intranet resources. It checks to see if Antivirus is installed and relatively up to date. It also checks for OS security patches. If you don't want to install the Clean Access agent, you don't have to. We provide guest access for those that don't. They however have access to no intranet resources and are limited to 256k. We don't scan for files, we don't do key logging. The only way I see illegal filesharing is when they are on the same subnet as me and I happen to have Itunes open. Limewire, Frostwire and several other leet virus vectors that students run use multicast dns (bon jour) to broadcast "susie jo's limewire tunes" which shows up under shared in Itunes. Only when an idiot insists upon broadcasting and sticking this in my face do I open a multicast dns browser to get the IP. I then go into the Cisco Clean Access Manager to see who has that ip address (Cisco is tied into our directory services.) I then go to their Facebook profile which is always wide open and call the cell number they have posted there publicly and politely request they discontinue the activity pursuant to the campus network policy as published in the student handbook. In the very rare circumstance they actually were smart enough to not leave Facebook open to the world I send them a polite email.

      Now that's a complete response. Nice work.

    71. Re:Solution For College's Bad Network Policy? by binford2k · · Score: 1

      You guys are overcomplicating things (as usual).

      The CSA does not block access for non-windows devices (else how would Tivo/xbox/psp/etc connect?) His school may require him to register a MAC address as a non-windows device, or using a Linux box may *just work*.

      Yes, my school (wsu.edu) did the same thing. I had to register my MAC.

    72. Re:Solution For College's Bad Network Policy? by Phreakiture · · Score: 1

      There are only two sane answers. A different college is one of them, accompanied with a thoughtfully-worded, civil, professional explanation to Central Michigan just exactly why you have declined to attend or are transferring out. Keep it calm and professional, and avoid ranting about it. Advise them that your computer is your personal property, and that you reject the notion that using their network entitles them to install anything in particular on it. Remind them that you would be paying them for their services.

      The other sane option, again leveraging the idea that you would be paying them for their services, is to get enough students riled up to make a noise that the college authorities will have a difficult time ignoring. This is a lot of work, especially at state colleges (because state colleges get a lower percentage of their revenue from tuition/fees than do private colleges) and the success/failure of it is largely dependent on (a) how excitable the student body is and (b) how sensitive the administration is to embarrassment.

      Really, though, the first idea, finding someplace else to be, is the one that makes the most sense and is far less of a gamble. Doing anything besides these two options is trying to find a technical solution to a political problem.

      --
      www.wavefront-av.com
    73. Re:Solution For College's Bad Network Policy? by SirCowMan · · Score: 1

      At the college I just finished at, they used Symantec Endpoint Protection. While they hadn't yet cut out access for non-compliant systems, that is a functionality. Interestingly, it uses the old Sygate system for its firewall. That's the only "good" side I could see to it, as the system was atrocious. The frequent I/O activity was hugely detrimental to the system. I benchmarked a few things (these are not rigourous, but with such huge numbers, it doesn't have to be;) some highlights; Wireless transfer speeds dropped 90% (avg. of 15Mbps -> 1.6Mbps) Battery life dropped 22% (from 1h25m to 1h06m) USB transfer speeds dropped 94.5% (15.8Mbps -> 0.88Mbps) The best solution? If living on campus, get DSL or cable to your room and ignore them. Or get an aircard. This sort of network lockdown is foolish outside of corporate/private environments.

      --
      !Equality through palindromes semordnilap hguorht ytilauqE!
    74. Re:Solution For College's Bad Network Policy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd go one step further and use thine own computer and Internet connection. At my school, I found numerous security vulnerabilities that I no longer trust them. Thus I use my own laptop and a wimax internet connection.

    75. Re:Solution For College's Bad Network Policy? by lwsimon · · Score: 1

      Interesting - I was actually at the Gleacher Center last week. I'll check to see if they have an online program that I could take from Arkansas.

      --
      Learn about Photography Basics.
    76. Re:Solution For College's Bad Network Policy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are a real control freak. Relax and stop worrying about other people are doing that doesn't affect you. Stop being part of the problem.

    77. Re:Solution For College's Bad Network Policy? by nicolas.kassis · · Score: 1

      Not sure about other universities but that wouldn't fly here where I work. Frankly, anything that would affect research is a big no no. The science departments would kill you if you decided to ban linux from their desktops. NAC (network access control) has been discussed but mostly ignored because they can't currently find a solution that fits everyone's needs.

    78. Re:Solution For College's Bad Network Policy? by Xerolooper · · Score: 1

      I totally agree. Although I think there is some value to a college education. The value is just not what most people think it is.

      My wife and I joke about it all the time how when I was younger I had managed to get some experience at the company I worked for on maintaining their AS400 and training other employees. When I would go to job interviews they would say wow your experience looks great but we need someone with a degree. Then after I got my degree I went to interviews and they said wow you have a degree but we would like to see more experience.

      I finally figured out that I really needed to know someone to get hired. I volunteered at a large government agency for 6 months before I got a job with a vendor. They key was to treat the volunteer gig like a real job while focusing on building relationships with everyone there. It was then really easy to get a job since I knew people. I am hoping that now that I work in the industry I trained for that I can make contacts and move back into private service industry where there is more money to be made.

      --
      "The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget." -Thomas Szasz
    79. Re:Solution For College's Bad Network Policy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you don't use their trojan, you don't get a connection.

      Is that a condom analogy?

    80. Re:Solution For College's Bad Network Policy? by ivucica · · Score: 1

      You don't get it: It's not banned for use by professors and researchers. It's not banned for use on classes. In fact, many classes depend on Linux exclusively, and there are 'softies that would protest against those classes the same way I want to against the ones where MS is on the throne. And they're right. Except it's pretty obvious .Net came to some of these classes by powerful lobbying on part on MS, in addition to fanatism from a certain department, and not only because of practical reasons. Linux and FreeBSD are on some classes because of practicality.

      It's not banned anywhere, but the attitude on the part of "those in charge" is preposterous.

    81. Re:Solution For College's Bad Network Policy? by jonadab · · Score: 1

      > I'm doing something very similar at home right now - running pfsense
      > in a vmware machine on a Windows XP host as my internet firewall.

      Wait, so let me get this straight: you're running a Windows-based firewall, to protect your Linux system from the network? That's just so... backwards. Next you'll be telling me you use MySQL for heavy-duty enterprise-level database stuff and Oracle for a small web-2.0 database of dubious importance.

      --
      Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.
    82. Re:Solution For College's Bad Network Policy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, I am running an XP host with a freebsd VM.

    83. Re:Solution For College's Bad Network Policy? by Techmeology · · Score: 1

      Do you have an old computer you can take with you? Here's what you could do: Install Windows on said old computer. Say, Windows XP. Have nothing except the following on this machine: -Windows -College Spyware -Squid Proxy -Two ethernet cards You then connect this machine to the college's network, and your main computer to the other network port. You could then use an OpenVPN connection through the squid proxy.

      --
      Excuse for why is your room always messy?
    84. Re:Solution For College's Bad Network Policy? by sheath · · Score: 1

      You know, not all 17- and 18-year-old kids "have a real plan." And oddly enough, I don't think we should expect them to.

      Here's a personal counterpoint: I went to a good CS school to get a degree so I could write computer games (the plan!). I enrolled in the the co-op education program (so I could get those paid internships!). And after a couple of internships, I learned that writing computer games actually kind of sucks.

      So I went to grad school to get a PhD, so I could become a professor. Not to avoid the real world, but because I really liked being a TA: running lab sessions for 20-40 students (and giving the occasional lecture). I was good at it, students liked me, etc.

      I got a PhD. But you know what? About a year before I finished, I realized that I didn't really like research. So I went looking for a job. Ended up as a "management consultant" with a starting salary in the low six figures, and ramping up from there. So much for minimum wage. And my company hires plenty of smart BA and BSc students (in the high 5-figures) every year. (Then, if you're good, we pay for business school - if you want to go.)

      But you know what? Now I'm not sure I want to be a consultant anymore. It's funny how big plans don't always take you where you expect. There might be a lesson in there.

      My biggest regrets? That I didn't spend a year on exchange to Denmark (where I am rightnow) or Spain (where I've visited) so I could expand my horizons. As long as you're making enough for food, shelter, and some left over, money really doesn't buy happiness. College isn't just about classes: it's about the dorms, the parties, the professors, the trips abroad during summer, the exchange programs, etc.

      So follow the parent's advice (despite my story, I agree: it's the right advice for some people). Or stop looking at life as a linear-optimization problem, go to college, get "educated", and become "well-rounded". Live the life you want to lead.

      And if it matters that much to you, run the damn VM to get around the stupid IT policy. :-)

      --

      ---sheath
    85. Re:Solution For College's Bad Network Policy? by vettemph · · Score: 1

      I like this one, but what I have done is: (IIRC)

      1. Have a pc "at home" (your parents house?) running linux with openSSH on port 443 (https). The school (or work) will always allow outbound traffic to a secure website. You could be talking to your bank for all they know.

      2. On a Windows machine (with bigbrother trojan installed), run the QEMU VM by downloading DSL embedded. It is DamnSmallLinux running in a VM. the qemu.exe, support files and your DSL install can fit on a pendrive. Alternately, you could install a full linux system into a 10gig img file for qemu use. etc...

      Note:
        In dsl, launch a terminal and type something like "ssh -p 443 -X "
        This will SSH to port 443 at home with X11 support to run graphical apps. once logged in type "firefox" or whatever.

        Also, you parents router will have to DMZ the linux box or forward the port(443)

        You will be running the software of the home PC, your school computer will just be remote controlling the home PC over and encrytped connection.

        I have also done a simular setup using NoMachine.

      There is a lot of learning here if you are not familiar qemu or linux.

      --
      The government which is strong enough to protect you from everything is strong enough to take everything from you.
    86. Re:Solution For College's Bad Network Policy? by vettemph · · Score: 1

      >>>Note:
      >>> In dsl, launch a terminal and type something like "ssh -p 443 -X "

        for some reason, slashdot omitted the user name and password bit that I placed in ....tags, opps
      type: ssh -p 443 -X Yourlogin@ParentsIP
      or maybe ssh -p 443 -l yourlogin -X -v (parentsIP)

      --
      The government which is strong enough to protect you from everything is strong enough to take everything from you.
    87. Re:Solution For College's Bad Network Policy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Which is great for those that run WINBLOWS, but what about Linux users? Are they banned from the intranet?

    88. Re:Solution For College's Bad Network Policy? by ottothecow · · Score: 1
      Unfortunately, they do not.

      The first quarter course is mostly avaialble online though (the scheme one). My teacher seems to have moved on to northwestern but here is a recent course website http://www.ece.northwestern.edu/~robby/uc-courses/15100-2008-fall/. and the textbook is available for free at http://www.htdp.org/. Somewhere out there should be a link to a current version of DrScheme...the homework assignments on that course website look like exactly what I used

      --
      Bottles.
  2. Don't use their network? by arb · · Score: 1

    Or find another school...

    1. Re:Don't use their network? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Most schools have similar software in place, Tipically, Cisco Clean Access: http://www.google.com/search?q=clean+access+inurl%3Aedu

      When I was in the dorms at my school, a guy maintained an InstallVise installer, which contained the proper registry keys to change window's MTU, and
      a greasemoney script which spoofed firefox's user agent and platform, so windows machines looked to be running linux.

      After seeing someone with a similar solution get kicked out of another school, being published on slashdot, and knowledge that my school's IT dept was searching
      for the maintainer, he stopped.

      Clean Access now uses a java jar, for the linux platform. If your school's client has something similar in place for linux users, I suggest that you find a Computer Science student,
      and ask them to decompile the jar, using the DJ Java Decompiler, and create a greasemoney script that uses a similar method of generating a session key. You'd also probably need
      the special registry keys, which can be found in the source code for sec_cloak.c, which you should be able to find on google.

      Hope I could help.

    2. Re:Don't use their network? by Sancho · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Let me get this straight--you trusted some random guy to install crap on your computer over the university?

      I find that pretty interesting.

    3. Re:Don't use their network? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ask them to decompile the jar, etc.

      I had to do this once for a similar system. At least back then, those things were scary easy to reverse engineer. It was something like: take reversed ASCII user-name, bitwise complement it, XOR with a constant string (stored in the jar) and base64 encode the result. I was able to write an entire key generator for it in less than 80 chars of python.

      Hmm... I wonder if I can get away with assigning this as extra credit for my students next semester. Obviously I couldn't assign "crack Clean Access", but maybe I could teach a section on reverse engineering and a couple weeks later a section on broken encryption techniques.

    4. Re:Don't use their network? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      sounds like just a grease monkey script, which have good scope policies and come with source.

      registry keys should only be distributed as text files however.

    5. Re:Don't use their network? by houstonbofh · · Score: 1

      A text based script verses a recompiled binary? Yep... No difference there.

    6. Re:Don't use their network? by unifyingtheory · · Score: 1

      My school uses CCA and I run Ubuntu. I just have to log in using a web browser for network access.

      Windows users have must use Cisco Clean Access Agent, Symantec Antivirus, and keep windows up-to-date or else no network access for them. Of course sometimes one of those fails and they have to reinstall windows.

  3. Linux by Timmmm · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Just tell them you use Linux, even if you don't. They'll probably be able to add you to a white list.

    1. Re:Linux by nurb432 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Or they will deny you access.

      --
      ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    2. Re:Linux by Majikk · · Score: 1

      If only. Odds are they'll simply tell him that linux is not supported under their network.

    3. Re:Linux by betterunixthanunix · · Score: 1

      Maybe at a very small school without a CS or engineering program. Where I went to school, if the computer center had tried to prevent people from running Linux, they would have had to deal with hundreds of professors' complaints.

      --
      Palm trees and 8
    4. Re:Linux by prestomation · · Score: 4, Informative

      My university(Ohio State), tried implementing similar policies last year. They rolled it out to some portion of the student population and said at the forefront that anyone running Mac or Linux was exempt.

      Turns out, a couple weeks in and they completely dropped the policy.

      On a related note: Some how, when you connect to the residential network, they can detect some botnet signatures on your machine and will deny you access. Your mac address is blacklisted until you reformat. It runs some utility to make sure you actually have reinstalled before they restore your access.

    5. Re:Linux by Darkness404 · · Score: 1

      Or get a really cheap Mac (you can get an EMac thats fast enough for browsing for less than ~$150) because usually they let you through with a Mac. Otherwise use a router. You would be surprised how many things just pass right through a wireless router. Case in point, I was at a college for a conference and this guy even with access to the Ethernet ports couldn't get on the network because it required a student ID, he plugged in a cheap Linksys router and instant access, no ID required.

      --
      Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
    6. Re:Linux by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      ...with an old obsolete OS that won't run any decent web browsers unless you drop $150 on an OS upgrade, so actual cost is around $300. (Yes I'm a little bit bitter.)

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    7. Re:Linux by mysidia · · Score: 1

      CS departments have their own networks, probably their own interconnections fto the internet, and they could be allowed to exempt themselves from the SecurityAnget and OnlyWindows policies, and be able to run other OSes like MacOS and Linux.

      But it would also mean there's a Firewall between them and the rest of campus.

    8. Re:Linux by Nimey · · Score: 1

      Debian's got a PowerPC port.

      --
      Hail Eris, full of mischief...

      E pluribus sanguinem
    9. Re:Linux by wstrucke · · Score: 5, Informative

      My university(Ohio State), tried implementing similar policies last year. They rolled it out to some portion of the student population and said at the forefront that anyone running Mac or Linux was exempt.

      As an IT employee at Ohio State, I can assure you that there is more of this in the pipeline since it's mandated by the Board of Trustees.

      I can't see comparing what is going on at OSU with what the OP reports at CMU -- Ohio State's efforts to lock down the network and restricted data are quite comprehensive and IT staff, like you, are concerned that it's done properly. Mac/Linux support is on the way -- most vendors do not support it so it's quite difficult for the University to support it. The scanners they run on your computer are not there to look at your personal files, track down copyright infringement, or anything else you might be worried about -- they simply look for OS/software patches and run an anti-virus/malware scan. If you don't run the scan with the agent, you will not have any network access. If you take some of the suggestions here and bypass the security agent, you are violating the AUP and, if caught, could face academic misconduct charges.

      I can assure you that the University's IT office is underfunded enough that even if they wanted to go out of their way to scan your computer for anything else (they do not), they would not be able to.

      On a related note: Some how, when you connect to the residential network, they can detect some botnet signatures on your machine and will deny you access. Your mac address is blacklisted until you reformat. It runs some utility to make sure you actually have reinstalled before they restore your access.

      This isn't magic -- they run typical network vulnerability scanners and block you if a virus or bot responds from your IP. DHCP and switch info tells them your mac address.

    10. Re:Linux by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...with an old obsolete OS that won't run any decent web browsers unless you drop $150 on an OS upgrade, so actual cost is around $300. (Yes I'm a little bit bitter.)

      My 10.2 Mac runs nothing. My 2001 PC received free upgrades and still works. I prefer Microsoft's biz model over Apple's

      In your case, you have no justification for being bitter, other than that you are cheap. You are using a 7-year-old operating system that has received three major upgrades, and lots and lots of 10.x.X upgrades. You could do what everybody else does - wait until your OS is obsolete, and buy an upgrade.

      How long have you been using OS/2 Warp for now, smotchkiss?

    11. Re:Linux by betterunixthanunix · · Score: 1

      Yeah but what happens to undergrads who live in dorms on campus, and want to be able to do their work from "home?" Or graduate students who install Linux on their laptop, and want to do some work in a library on campus (which is presumably not part of the CS network)? It would certainly irritate people if they were forced to be physically in the CS department in order to get their work done.

      --
      Palm trees and 8
    12. Re:Linux by IgnitusBoyone · · Score: 1

      I wrote this huge reply to this, but then I realized I wasn't logged in and in doing so it got lost. I doubt they would deny you access. Almost all Universities have a high OS X population and thank be the goods its BSD based. During Gradschool the first year of my assistantship was to do IT support to the collages for OS X and for all the silly Commercial VPN Solutions we ran at the university we had some back door that allowed us to give OS X people access which quickly became the backdoor for PDAs/*nix users and so forth. You can't deny all those pretty Apple people access they are growing in numbers and if you have a Collage of Arts I promise you there is a *nix solution.

      --
      Momento Mori
    13. Re:Linux by Abreu · · Score: 1

      Those are the kind of policies that justify pirating software...

      (Disclaimer: I no longer run pirated software... but I did for ages, just like the rest of my country)

      --
      No sig for the moment.
    14. Re:Linux by Ark42 · · Score: 1, Flamebait

      You sir, are an ass for supporting this crud. No software should be required by the university on any students computer. If you want to do any checking and blocking, do it remotely with nessus as you mention. Any IT department which demands a student install *spyware* on their computer simply to be allowed internet access is an absolutely horribly misguided and mismanaged IT department. I don't care what the software purports to scan for and not scan for. It IS spyware, and nothing less.

    15. Re:Linux by BaldingByMicrosoft · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Newsflash: It's -their- network. Now, chew on this:

      Say it was -your- responsibility to keep a network running which was used by a bunch of college students who don't know the first thing about maintaining and protecting their PCs. What, in your expert opinion, would be a "well guided" and "well managed" solution?

    16. Re:Linux by Brother+Seamus · · Score: 1

      The scanners they run on your computer are not there to look at your personal files, track down copyright infringement, or anything else...

      ...yet.

    17. Re:Linux by mysidia · · Score: 1

      They open a VPN connection or SSH to the CS network, maybe...

      I'm guessing some of the most stubborn IT departments might require thousands of ppl wanting to use Linux before they'll cater to them

    18. Re:Linux by rtfa-troll · · Score: 1

      a) Use the same thing; if it works a bit it might be worth it.

      b) allow access also for any system which sends a simple text file like "I follow the AUP/I updated virus today/I updated OS 3 days ago/I have a firewall or equivalent" to port 80 on a local web server to have access.

      Use an IDS to block access to any noticed bot or illegal P2P traffic.

      This means that there's no specific proprietary protocol needed and students who don't trust the client can implement their own for any OS. At the same time, you can make running an insecure OS a disciplinary matter. Anyone who can overcome this obstacle knows enough to not be in the category of "college students who don't know the first thing about maintaining and protecting their PCs".

      Finally, remember that if such a system becomes standard, then botnets will start faking it too. You need to start protecting the network in other ways.

      --
      =~ s,(.*),<sarcasm>$1</sarcasm>,g if any_point_you_wish();
    19. Re:Linux by Darkness404 · · Score: 1

      Um, you can run Linux on them, and really I was figuring an extra $50 for upgrades (RAM, second-hand OS, etc) because you can routinely find them on E-Bay for ~$100 or less.

      --
      Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
    20. Re:Linux by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "...if caught, could face academic misconduct charges."

      Reason enough to go right ahead and do it I would have thought. You little Hitler you.

    21. Re:Linux by Wolvenhaven · · Score: 2, Informative

      My school has that, but for windows machines only. If your machine is detected as being mac or linux they let you on the network without it, I have a dualboot machine which I booted into ubuntu on first, got registered on the network, and they kept the IP of that machine as linux even when I booted into windows. Try that unless they have mac and linux based programs too. Also, follow the guy's advice about using an encrypted pipe, I do it with ssh through a server at my house for sensitive information, and for AIM, IRC, and various other things I use SSL when available. If all else fails I'd go the route of spoofing it like the posts above me say.

      --
      Orwell was an optimist.
    22. Re:Linux by that+this+is+not+und · · Score: 1

      Yes, but he could run Debian on a cheap P4 box from a surplus auction for $30 or less. The point was the cheapest hardware to run Mac OS10.

    23. Re:Linux by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      A fair and creative reply. Tai chi bow.
      I'll put P2P traffic aside. If the school can afford the 50% or higher bandwidth premium, and they're willing to take the legal risks, perhaps they should allow it.
      So, let's assume the following:
      Your network serves X0,000 staff and students. 5% malware penetration == dysfunctional network and loss of job. 20% of your customers are computer proficient regarding security and good network citizenship.
      I'll lay some objectivity aside to make this argument. If the Cisco product is:
      * Keeping the network up,
      * Used to effectively manage PCs by forcing customers to practice good security and maintenance, and
      * Doing it in a way that automates the process by teaching the customer to do it themselves instead of having an IT rep make house calls to the 80% of the customer base that would require it,
      isn't it a good, cost effective solution?

      I agree that a single-layer defense is never enough. And, considering where we're having this debate, I can certainly support the use of policies and processes which accommodate the other 20% of the customer base with a less intrusive solution.

      We're evaluating a solution for our K-12 regional network using PacketFence, including the Snort/Nessus/RADIUS options. Check it out, if you haven't.

    24. Re:Linux by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I previously worked for a large midwestern university's IT department. I can outline our policies and why I think for the most part they were (and are) effective).

      We required network registration using something similar to the 'security agent' the submitter mentioned. However, all this program does is check to see if Windows reports that some sort of anti-virus software is installed. It also runs the Microsoft Malicious Software Removal Tool and does a couple other little security things, that's it. The only information that is sent back is information useful in helping support consultants fix problems...no personal information of any kind. Only Windows users are required to run it; if you use Mac OS X, Linux, BSD, whatever, you still have to register, but you just get directed to a web page, you log in, you click Register, and you're done. Any device without a web browser (e.g. Game consoles, DVRs, other embedded devices) could be manually registered if you simply called and told us the MAC address.

      Frankly, with some of the worms that were going around on our network a few years ago, I think it's a perfectly sensible policy. For the 0.1% of Windows users that want to get around having to run this utility, it's fairly easy to do if you know what you are doing, anyway.

    25. Re:Linux by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm a Central Michigan student

      If your computer is running linux when you first connect to the network, it will exempt you from the network scan

      You can then use windows on there if you want, and it will work fine. You will have to reauthenticate every semester.

    26. Re:Linux by Fred+Ferrigno · · Score: 3, Interesting

      When they keep out the commercial ISPs so they're the only network available and when their classes require network access, I'm a little less concerned about their rights to their network. If they're going to force you to eat their dog food, they at least have to make it palatable.

      I don't know why universities bother providing network access if it's sooo hard to maintain. Comcast, AT&T, etc. handle the off-campus students just fine without any of that crap. It's not like their job is any easier or their customers are any smarter.

      If I were running the network at a university, I'd leave the dorms to the commercial providers and let them compete for business. In the labs have the students use university PCs which are locked down as needed. For wireless, you offer a "clean" network that requires CCA or whatever and a guest network that is on the other side of the firewall and throttled.

    27. Re:Linux by innocent_white_lamb · · Score: 1

      And yet, somehow, ISP's with even larger numbers of users manage to keep their networks up and running WITHOUT requiring spyware on their customer's computers....

      --
      If you're a zombie and you know it, bite your friend!
    28. Re:Linux by younata · · Score: 1

      Hey, there are plenty of people running windows 98 and earlier, who don't get any support/anything. They are perfectly fine with that. There are also people who run older versions of linux/bsd because of personal preferences or some other reason (distribution they use went away, or something similar)

    29. Re:Linux by wstrucke · · Score: 1

      You sir, are an ass for supporting this crud. No software should be required by the university on any students computer. If you want to do any checking and blocking, do it remotely with nessus as you mention.

      While I appreciate your candor, name calling is certainly not necessary to get your point across.

      As I explicitly mentioned in my response, "it's mandated by the Board of Trustees." The Ohio State Board of Trustees took it upon themselves to mandate a NAC solution to the "security problem". I apologize if I somehow alluded to it being my idea. We were told that we could either implement it or lose our jobs. You may have quit; I chose to do my job since honestly, it's really not that big of a deal. Everyone can do their work and everyone can use whatever OS they want, as the OP indicated.

    30. Re:Linux by obarthelemy · · Score: 1

      There's 2 sides to the coin. If students can guarantee they won't bring the network down by spreading viruses or walware, then such intrusive solutions are not warranted. However, they can't.

      The easier solution, then is to have that software, but have a clear explanations of what it can/cannot do. I take it it doesn't impair computer use in any way, apart from virus/malware checks.

      If it indeed can't keylog nor snoop files, I don't see what the hissy fit is about.Learn to be a responsible part of a network. You're not longer king in your (parent's) basement, and your next job will pretty much enforce the same, or much stronger rules.

      --
      The Cloud - because you don't care if your apps and data are up in the air.
    31. Re:Linux by Looshi · · Score: 1

      As an Ohio State student running Linux I remain skeptical about future cross-platform compatibility. From what I've seen Linux users are supported even less here than by most hardware companies (which is saying something). I can understand not wanting to deal with supporting X number of distros, but for basic services like networking I think support could be a lot better. To get the school's wireless working in Ubuntu I had to supplement the university's documentation with a tutorial on another students blog, and even then it still seems a little unstable at times.

      Don't even get me started on the Residential Network. Earlier in the year I tried to do a netinstall of Debian and couldn't download anything because of the gateway page that only works in a web browser. Long story short, I learned a quick lesson on using a text-based browser from the terminal. It made me feel like a badass, but that doesn't make it any less of a pain.

    32. Re:Linux by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And you sir are an asshat.

      It's the college's network. They own it, they are responsible for it, therefore you have to play by their rules. Dont like it? Don't use it.
      In my day, we had to wait until the labs were free before we got online.

    33. Re:Linux by ejtttje · · Score: 2, Insightful

      What happened to personal responsibility? As in, people are responsible for their own machines. If they get infected, then kick them off the network. You admit you already have tools for scanning vulnerabilities remotely, use those. That's a reasonable policy.

      Requiring the use of a specific piece of spyware smacks of corruption to me. I'm sure someone's getting paid for that. What if a student wants to run a different scanner? They have to run two scanners? What if they want to change the configuration, or run a different OS?

      Their machines are their machines. Your jurisdiction ends with the network. Punish those who misuse the network, don't pre-emptively force yourself on their machines.

    34. Re:Linux by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What, in your expert opinion, would be a "well guided" and "well managed" solution?

      My opinion is not expert. What the university that I worked for did was:

      The network for the campus residences is separate from the university's network.

      The residence network is treated (mostly) as if it were run by a commercial ISP. A student in on-campus housing is legally in his residence (as in one's home is one's castle) and it is treated as such.

      If the IDS detects that a student's computer is infected, the network is automatically reconfigured and the infected computer is put on a separate VLAN which can reach only the central mail server and the Computer Help Desk's web site. No traffic is allowed except http and e-mail (unless the infected computer is already trying to spam, in which case no e-mail). Any http request to anywhere other than the Computer Help Desk's web site receives in response a web page explaining that the student's computer is infected and that the student must contact the Computer Help Desk.

      When the student contacts the Help Desk, if it is the first time his computer has been infected, he is given the option to completely wipe the computer and re-install the operating system by himself, or to pay to have the Computer Help Desk do it. All the software updates the student needs are on the Help Desk's web site (which the student can still reach) or can be provided to him on CD/DVD at a nominal charge. Instructions are available on the CD/DVD and on the Help Desk's web site. Once the student reports to the Help Desk that his computer has been cleaned, the Help Desk will restore his network connection.

      Repeat offenders are not given the option to clean the computer themselves; they have to pay the Help Desk to have it done.

      The student can run whatever OS they want: it is their computer in their home. The university recommends anti-malware software and provides it at a steep discount, but does not require it.

      The system works reasonably well. No one's network connection is disrupted except for those whose computer is infected. Innocent bystanders are mostly protected. Naive students learn quickly. Repeat offenders are very few and far between.

    35. Re:Linux by Kalriath · · Score: 1

      Using equipment no university could afford. You obviously have no idea what a Juniper applicance would cost... ISPs don't use Cisco.

      Also, you keep saying "spyware"... I don't think that word means what you think it means.

      Oh, and you might have noticed, ISPs do have spam problems. And to a degree that would crush a smaller network - like a universitys.

      --
      For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".
    36. Re:Linux by bwcbwc · · Score: 1

      Perhaps Microsoft SMS? That's an integral part of their enterprise network management solution, and it does scan software installs and can automatically install updates.

      --
      We are the 198 proof..
    37. Re:Linux by Culture20 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      While I appreciate your candor, name calling is certainly not necessary to get your point across. As I explicitly mentioned in my response, "it's mandated by the Board of Trustees." The Ohio State Board of Trustees took it upon themselves to mandate a NAC solution to the "security problem". I apologize if I somehow alluded to it being my idea. We were told that we could either implement it or lose our jobs. You may have quit; I chose to do my job since honestly, it's really not that big of a deal. Everyone can do their work and everyone can use whatever OS they want, as the OP indicated.

      You seem to be indicating that this plan is for University owned Staff/Faculty/lab machines only. If this is the case, it's no different than standard business policy, and it's just good sense (why would it need to be mandated from on high?).

      GP thinks the plan you're implementing at your superior's request is for student-owned computers that they're using on campus. If that's true, then you'd be a wimp for not quitting when the Trustees planned a "let's roger the students" policy. You furthermore would be a fool for thinking "it's really not that big of a deal." Of course, I'm guessing the first paragraph is more correct; otherwise, the Trustees would probably have you running the scans on all Staff and Faculty home machines since they connect in to campus occasionally.

    38. Re:Linux by Sancho · · Score: 1

      IDS are far from perfect. They actually miss quite a large amount of data, and there are false-positives to worry about. Trust me, when you falsely flag a computer as infected, people get just as upset as if you ask them to run an agent on their machines.

    39. Re:Linux by KillerBob · · Score: 1

      Perhaps the way I'd do it is a bit draconian, but here's how I'd do it if I were running the place:

      1. Allow unrestricted network access for peer-to-peer subnets. You have a computer, you can do whatever you want with it, provided you aren't causing grief to other users. As a precaution, require that the computer be vetted as virus-free before it's allowed to connect to the network.

      2. Cut that network off from the Internet. Zero access outside the network. Provide IMAP for incoming mail. Require all SMTP traffic to go through the server that you administer. Provide internal mirror servers for keeping Windows and OS/X up to date. (not Linux. but Linux users probably know enough to update manually as soon as they are given a connection to the Internet again.)

      3. Set up terminal servers which you control. Can set it up with roaming profiles if you want. All Internet access except for e-mail originates from these systems. Provide users with all the software they need to connect to a terminal server. (VNC as an example, but a University can probably afford a much better solution than that)

      4. Set up network shared drives. Your share gets automatically mapped to your roaming profile when you log into a terminal server, and it is accessible via Samba and FTP from the secured network (so you *can* download files, but you have to do it in two steps, the first of which being through a strictly controlled system). Also set up an internal instant messenger server using your preferred service. While there's tons of free services available, I do know from experience that MS Office Communicator server is able to connect to MSN Messenger on the outside world (and presumably Yahoo as well), and can be configured to prevent file transfers and block links.

      5. Provide a gaming lab that's completely segregated from the working network, from which students can play online games such as Warcraft and GuildWars, as well as surf freely to sites like YouTube. Allow users to run as users only, and require that all software be installed by an administrator... be liberal. don't restrict people from installing a game, but do restrict people from installing LimeWire or such. And make sure that the gaming machines don't have burners, or external USB ports.

      6. Allow students the option of purchasing cable/DSL service from a local provider, but stipulate that if they elect to have this connection in their dorm, their room will be completely disconnected from the secured network. Ban routers that allow wireless connectivity.

      --
      If you believe everything you read, you'd better not read. - Japanese proverb
    40. Re:Linux by wstrucke · · Score: 1

      You seem to be indicating that this plan is for University owned Staff/Faculty/lab machines only. If this is the case, it's no different than standard business policy, and it's just good sense (why would it need to be mandated from on high?).

      I did no such thing. The policy is for all devices connecting to the University network. As others have noted, students are free to not use the network if the policy bothers them. Naturally it does not need to be "mandated from on high", yet it is. Data exposures are a big deal in the public sector so we've been given a strict mandate.

      GP thinks the plan you're implementing at your superior's request is for student-owned computers that they're using on campus. If that's true, then you'd be a wimp for not quitting when the Trustees planned a "let's roger the students" policy. You furthermore would be a fool for thinking "it's really not that big of a deal."

      It's funny, but I've always considered myself as the one to stand up when I feel someone is being wronged or a policy violates someone's rights, but this argument is almost comical. You think it's a significant issue for a network to require a virus scan for access?? Students are not required to use the network and not required to have their own computers. If they want access, they are required to abide by very minimal policies and rules. No one is scanning their traffic, monitoring their e-mails, watching their every move. If they want to download porn or music or software that is their business. The mandate is to do the absolute least that is required to protect the University and the other network users. Would I chose NAC or CleanAccess necessarily if it were my decision? Probably not, but that doesn't make it a poor solution.

      I don't know what industry (if any) you work in, but who the hell quits over something as insignificant as forcing a virus scan? If you aren't familiar with NAC, have a read.

    41. Re:Linux by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If he gets denied access just because he's running Linux, then he seriously needs to think about going to a better, less backwards college.

    42. Re:Linux by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just tell them you use Windows Vista.

    43. Re:Linux by Ernesto+Alvarez · · Score: 1

      The system works reasonably well. No one's network connection is disrupted except for those whose computer is infected. Innocent bystanders are mostly protected. Naive students learn quickly. Repeat offenders are very few and far between.

      Except when the IDS has a flase positive, which is pretty common. Then the network connection is disrupted for an innocent bystander.

    44. Re:Linux by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So, I take it that Art is 100% MCSS compliant?

      Also, do not underestimate the use of magic by OIT. Faronics Deep Freeze runs mostly on magic. Dude, and once we get Altiris rolled out, we'll be able to use Oculus Repairo.

    45. Re:Linux by celle · · Score: 1

      Then tell them I'm paying for this university so fix your network.

    46. Re:Linux by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I use Linux at Central Michigan University and it is a perfect way around the security. So is Mac. But there is no whitelist, no Windows computers allowed on without the 'scan'.

    47. Re:Linux by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Newsflash: It's -their- network.
      Newsflash: Monopolies get their behavior regulated.

    48. Re:Linux by srandby · · Score: 1

      Bypassing the security agent does not violate the IT policies of Ohio State. Nothing in the policies even suggests that one is required to install the security agent in order to have network access. In fact, one part of these policies implies that such security agents violate the IT policies!

    49. Re:Linux by dbIII · · Score: 1

      It crosses the line IMHO at the point where they are scanning the drives of machines that are the users personal property. The standard "if you use our network we get to install any crapware on your PC that we like" disclaimers would be used but you never really want to find out how well that will stand up in court unless you really have to. It leaves things open for the stupid situation of medical, biology or nursing students having their work deleted or getting into deep trouble for things misidentified as pornography by an IT department that's exceeding it's normal authority.
      Then there's the more mundane hassles about whether the spyware can be hijacked by others and how much you can really trust the in-house operators (eg. will they send the home made pornographic video they find to all their friends thus potentially driving those in it to suicide). Passwords or credit card numbers in clear text have often been a problem but in most cases the browsers handle that so you no longer have to trust that the people upstream are not sniffing it. If the spyware you have to install incudes a keylogger that is a different story and it providing a very powerful motivation to corrupt someone involved in the operation of the network - do you trust all your co-workers with a big long list of credit card numbers and expiry dates and little chance of being caught? You shouldn't have to trust them with this information in the first place, they should never get it. It's potentially getting into very dark and murky waters here since the machines are not owned by the university and the university has little legal rights to do anything other than restrict what is done on their network.
      Personally I think it is all a massive overreaction to torrents and porn - one you handle by policy and throttling/port blocking and the other really only by policy (mine would be push it all to the University Chaplin or whoever since it's a social policy).

      To answer the second question, I would take the initially more difficult approach of trying to implement any controls on University owned hardware upstream of these computers that are the students own personal property. That means response to a virus would be cutting someone off the network and attempting to find some other way to inform them why. Port filtering is easy, mail filtering works to a degree and shaping isn't too difficult, content filtering is on the other hand is not easy. Thus if the University is worried about file sharing you end up with blanket policies like blocking torrents, and if it's tunneled through ssh or whatever eventually someone will notice and probably block ssh to or from that offender. Walking all over people's personal machines IMHO is crossing a line no matter how draconian the policies are, so I would make antivirus etc available but mandatory installation of some sort of spyware just looks unprofessional to me unless you actually own the equipment.

    50. Re:Linux by uvajed_ekil · · Score: 1

      Hmm, if they eventually provide support for Mac and Linux, can I still get an exemption if I run Solaris or BSD? BeOS or OS/2? Can I not run AIX or System V anymore if I go to OSU?

      --
      This is a hacked account, for which the owner can not be held responsible.
    51. Re:Linux by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The scanners they run on your computer are not there to look at your personal files, track down copyright infringement, or anything else you might be worried about -- they simply look for OS/software patches and run an anti-virus/malware scan. If you don't run the scan with the agent, you will not have any network access. If you take some of the suggestions here and bypass the security agent, you are violating the AUP and, if caught, could face academic misconduct charges.

      I can assure you that the University's IT office is underfunded enough that even if they wanted to go out of their way to scan your computer for anything else (they do not), they would not be able to.

      The camera they install in your dorm showers are not there to look at you naked or anything else you might be worried about -- they simply look for faces of non-residents after hours and call the campus police to investigate. If you don't allow the camera to be installed, you will not have any shower access. If you take some of the suggestions here and cover the camera, you are interfering with dorm security and, if caught, could face academic misconduct charges.

      I can assure you that the University's IT office is underfunded enough that even if they wanted to go out of their way to look at you naked (they do not), they would not be able to.

    52. Re:Linux by CronoCloud · · Score: 1

      Yes, Debian's got a PPC port, but I figure if you're running Linux on PPC, odds are you're using Yellow Dog, Ubuntu, or Fedora.

    53. Re:Linux by FrellMeDead · · Score: 1

      Technically they only have a network due to the tuition that the students pay to go to that school. Otherwise what network would be needed. There are much better ways to maintain the integrity/security of a network without forcing paying students to install any kind of software that would monitor anything. I do agree that good computer security/use is needed in any environment, but there are much better ways to do this then forcing people to install monitoring software on there privately owned computers. Regardless of your intentions people are going to resist because they are being force into it. As a result those people will always find ways around these restrictions/installed software, etc. Just look at DRM or any restrictions put on things that were paid for by those individuals.

    54. Re:Linux by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The scanners they run on your computer are not there to look at your personal files, track down copyright infringement, or anything else you might be worried about

      Until I get a legal document signed by the board of trustees which states that every time 'anything else i might be worried about' happens, all of the board will go to prison for no less than 12 months, and I will be exempted from all legal actions which will be redirected at the school... Then why should I believe that statement?

      You realize all of this has happened to many people in the past. I have 100% of the evidence that shows 'anything else i might be worried about' is exactly what it will be used for. The only schools which haven't sent kids to jail and/or a lifetime of debt, are one that do not meddle in their students personal files.

      Ironically, college itself used to be known as 'a life time of debt', granted only as a joke, but who would have imagined just 10 years ago, that the schools 'lets you on the LAN' software that finds 10 mp3's means you now owe 3/4th a million dollars to the RIAA, zero dollars to the artists, and since legal debt needs paid first, zero dollars towards tuition until age 45 (roughly how long it will take to pay off the RIAA while working at McDonalds or Walmart)

      Sorry, but the law has spoken, and that is what it wants.

    55. Re:Linux by malkavian · · Score: 1

      aSo, what happened to personal responsibility? As in people responsible for their own plumbing, electricity, building structural integrity, plastering?
      It all breaks down, THEN kick them out of the room.
      Seriously, you can't expect everyone at a uni to know how to spot an infected machine (there's a fair chance that unless you're a dedicated security tech as a job, you won't know either).
      The simplest front line defense is to run known agents that an understaffed IT department can monitor as a baseline to keep the worst of things at bay. This service is usually provided for free, and as such is a benefit for everyone (unless of course you active enjoy having a REAL trojan which'll keylog and pass that to the people who'll grab your cred card numbers etc.).

      Sure, their machines are their machines, same as the IT department's network is the IT department's network. You don't want to subscribe to their terms and conditions for trying to keep their net secure, just don't hook YOUR machine to THEIR network.
      When resources are so tight they squeak, there aren't enough people in a support department to support everything. If you don't like that, speak to the people who provide the budget for it, and explain why you think the IT deprt is underfunded. After all, it's the financier's job to ensure there's enough cash to make things work correctly.
      Still, in the real world, it's likely that they'll cover about 95-99% of the people happily at a baseline that'll keep the worst at bay. To go further, it'll take 10 times the money for a very tiny payback. And this will come from other services (such as salaries for tutors etc.), or result in increases in the tuition fees.

      Yes, it'd be wonderful if everyone could do what they wanted in a magically safe world where nothing ever went wrong, and there were mystical wise all knowing people that'd protect you without ever intruding on what you wanted to do without any compromise. However, the world isn't like that. There are usually choices and compromises to be made. If there are things you're not willing to do in compromise, then don't. But don't expect people to sacrifice everything to make sure you can do everything you want without consequence.

    56. Re:Linux by malkavian · · Score: 1

      Comcast et. al. don't give a rat's ass if your machine is spyware infested or not.
      Providing an external ISP access to every room on a campus is prohibitively expensive, not to mention entirely at the mercy of an external entity to the Uni.
      The thing with extern ISPs is that if someone defaults on the line, they won't write it off. They'll expect payment for reconnection. As it's on Uni property, they'll expect the Uni to stump up. Begin to see where this is getting a little more complicated?
      It's always easy to say how bad a solution is when your job's not on the line for performing it. If you were put in that kind of position, I get the sneaky suspicion you'd learn a hell of a lot of things you're not currently privy to, and knowing all the facts and constraints, you'd end up making a similar kind of decision.

    57. Re:Linux by Ark42 · · Score: 1

      It's the student's network. They own it, and they pay for it, with their tuition.

    58. Re:Linux by Ark42 · · Score: 1

      The issue is simply this:
      You support requiring the installation of spyware on student-owned machines, in order for students to use the only choice of internet access, which they already paid for with their tuition.
      That is a line that should not have been crossed. You should have stood up for what is right, gotten the entire IT department together, and all quit at once.

      You don't need such draconian enforcement to have TOS or an AUP on the campus network. This is akin to putting razor wire and electrified fence around the campus stadium, instead of a simple chain-link fence. You don't need such an elaborate fence to enforce the rules.

    59. Re:Linux by ejtttje · · Score: 1

      So, what happened to personal responsibility? As in people responsible for their own plumbing, electricity, building structural integrity, plastering? It all breaks down, THEN kick them out of the room.

      Yes, actually, that *is* how it works. If people suspect a problem, they call a specialist. Or maybe they know how to do it themselves and don't have to.

      The point is, the State doesn't require people to give keys to the State electrician, plumber, building inspecter, etc. to come and go as they please, as a "choice" of living in the State. You're not even required to use their services! You get to choose who and when you want to let in your house. This is an important foundation of our country.

      Seriously, you can't expect everyone at a uni to know how to spot an infected machine

      Another valuable life skill to learn. Yes they should run an antivirus on windows. They should get to choose which one, including none (which is perfectly viable on Mac and Linux), and learn the consequences when the network scanner detects an infection and kicks them off.

      Sure, their machines are their machines, same as the IT department's network is the IT department's network. You don't want to subscribe to their terms and conditions for trying to keep their net secure, just don't hook YOUR machine to THEIR network.

      The problem is this is not a corporate network. You serve a residential population with their personal equipment. You are a monopoly ISP, and should be held to a high standard of ethics, especially being at a university. Network access is a practical requirement for doing classwork, for which your users are paying, and I bet they didn't get the acceptable use policy sent with their acceptance letter, putting this on the level of an EULA. There is no "choice" when they require the service and are already locked in, and have no other competitors.

      If you don't like that, speak to the people who provide the budget for it, and explain why you think the IT deprt is underfunded.

      No, that's YOUR job. Telling your users to do your work for you, and a specific way you tell them to, is a cop out. And then you wind up spending time and money monitoring *that* and dealing with people working around it instead of actually doing the original job watching for real security issues.

      But don't expect people to sacrifice everything to make sure you can do everything you want without consequence.

      Yes, exactly what I would say to you.

    60. Re:Linux by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I work at the IT help desk at CMU - the CSA does not install at all if you use Linux, it lets you right on.

    61. Re:Linux by Eil · · Score: 1

      If you don't run the scan with the agent, you will not have any network access. If you take some of the suggestions here and bypass the security agent, you are violating the AUP and, if caught, could face academic misconduct charges.

      I think what you say is reasonable if (and only if) the university is providing the computers. If I bring my own Linux laptop for educational and/or recreational use at school, there's no way I'm installing some random software only for "policy compliance" reasons. Especially if all it's for is to scan for supposed vulnerabilities on my machine. I'm sorry, but I run Linux exactly to avoid that kind of crap in the first place.

      Besides, software like this actively harms user security education. Software like this gives you and your users a false sense of security. You should be instructing them on how to use the Internet safely, not handing them a CD and saying, "now you're all good!" Plus, you open up the door for some semi-clever attacker to send an email to every osu.edu address saying, "click on this legit-looking link to install an update to your OSU network policy compliance software. Failure to do so in 24 hours will result in loss of network access, etc..." Then you have a campus-wide botnet on your hands which was kind of the think you were looking to prevent in the first place.

      I can assure you that the University's IT office is underfunded enough that even if they wanted to go out of their way to scan your computer for anything else (they do not), they would not be able to.

      You say this, and you probably even mean it. However, the time will come when somebody will want to. (Think: child porn investigation or RIAA lawsuit.) And they certainly will be able to because there's this handy-dandy software installed on every campus and personal computer and most of the students have no clue what it really does and will click "Yes" on any box telling them that an update is available. Once it's been used for a Real Important Reason, using it for less important reasons (software piracy, copyright infringement, saying bad things about the University) looks much easier to those in charge. If this sounds like a slippery slope argument, then you're spot-on because it damn well is an extremely slippery, extremely steep slope and it would be better for all involved, even your network security, if the line was firmly drawn at compulsory software installation.

      I went to school to learn and broaden my mind, not have odious policies shoved down my throat at every turn. I wish today's college students could be afforded the same privilege.

    62. Re:Linux by Fred+Ferrigno · · Score: 1

      Comcast et. al. don't give a rat's ass if your machine is spyware infested or not.

      Which would tend to belie the assertion that spyware is such a horrible problem for the network that it necessitates running these clean access programs that are essentially spyware in themselves.

      Providing an external ISP access to every room on a campus is prohibitively expensive, not to mention entirely at the mercy of an external entity to the Uni.

      Not every room on campus, just the dorms. The owners of large apartment buildings seem to manage this relationship just fine, even in college towns where kids move frequently.

      The thing with extern ISPs is that if someone defaults on the line, they won't write it off. They'll expect payment for reconnection. As it's on Uni property, they'll expect the Uni to stump up. Begin to see where this is getting a little more complicated?

      I really doubt that's the case. They can expect payment all they want, but the university is not a party to their contract with the student. Again, apartment owners deal with this all the time, so I assume there are some standard practices already in place.

      If you were put in that kind of position, I get the sneaky suspicion you'd learn a hell of a lot of things you're not currently privy to, and knowing all the facts and constraints, you'd end up making a similar kind of decision.

      Oh, I'm sure I'd learn all about the political bullshit that went into the decision. And given the inevitable resistance to change, I might find that fighting the status quo is not worth the grief.

    63. Re:Linux by Psilax · · Score: 1

      mac address protection is useless on a descent computer. Most networkcards are able to spoof another mac address. So you simply change mac address each time you get blocked and eventually the blocking will go down because they started blocking a computer from some "important high up the ladder" person.

    64. Re:Linux by Ihlosi · · Score: 1

      Ironically, college itself used to be known as 'a life time of debt', granted only as a joke, but who would have imagined just 10 years ago, that the schools 'lets you on the LAN' software that finds 10 mp3's means you now owe 3/4th a million dollars to the RIAA, zero dollars to the artists, and since legal debt needs paid first, zero dollars towards tuition until age 45 (roughly how long it will take to pay off the RIAA while working at McDonalds or Walmart)

      Even with a modest 5% interest rate, three quarters of a million dollar will accrue almost $40k in interest per year. Good luck paying off any of that while working at McDonalds or WalMart.

    65. Re:Linux by Ltap · · Score: 1

      Just tell them you use Linux, even if you don't. They'll probably be able to add you to a white list.

      That's assuming that they allow Linux. I've been to places where the netadmins do not allow non-Windows computers on the network. Not actually blocked, but against the rules - mainly out of laziness. It could be a similar situation here. Solution A: run Linux. Solution B: run Windows, but encrypt all your important data. It'll be able to monitor your browsing, but if it's spying on your browser there's not much else you can do besides try using an obscure browser (if the program is targeted for Firefox/IE). Incidentally - has anyone got information about that program?

      --
      Yet Another Tech Blog
      (but so much more, including game and movie reviews)
      http://yanteb.peasantoid.org
    66. Re:Linux by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They actually JUST started using Nessus withing the last 6 months. The majority of the blacklist info comes from an IDS (last I heard thy used Bro)

      The major reason they stopped installing the cisco client in the dorm was that it was taking technicians way too long to install it on student computers.

    67. Re:Linux by leozh · · Score: 1

      This worked great at Rutgers. I gave all my roommates Linux LiveCDs, then the network detected that they had Linux and whitelisted them. They then rebooted back into Windows and were all set.

      --
      __________________
      Leo
      webmaster@007sdomain.com
  4. Tether. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Get a cellphone plan. Ensure that your phone supports "Tethering". Attach your phone to your pc with a Data cable. Access the internets with freedom.

    1. Re:Tether. by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That has got to be the first time I've ever heard cellphone internet described as "freedom".

    2. Re:Tether. by sound+vision · · Score: 1, Insightful

      It's freedom when compared with having the college install some monitoring app (dare I say spyware?) on your computer.

    3. Re:Tether. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      The problem I've seen with some tether plans are that they have low(depending on what you are using it for) monthly data transfers.
      AT&T for example seems to have 5 GB included with every tether plan with $0.00048/KB ($0.49/MB) if you exceed it.
      5GB in a month is an average (30 day/month here) transfer of 2.0 kB/second.
      And I've had months with a parent downloading 100GB of audio books (librivox, free audio books of books in the public domain).
      Heck, the suggested sizes page for AT&T has a 2 hour movie from iTunes @ 1.5GB. If you watch more than 3 a month you have a problem.

      A thought, see if you can get a dial up connection to some ISP. With a 56kb connection you should be able to get about 4-5kB/sec download rate(best I've seen IIRC). If you never use the phone for any other purpose, it would be cheaper for the (using 4.5kB/sec, 30 days) 11.1 GB of transfer. If you used the cell phone plan, 5GB + 6.1GB, it would be the base cost + $3070 + taxes.

      Now, I know for AT&T if you don't have tether in your plan it is unlimited data, but the terms seem to suggest that if you exceed 5GB they can slap a charge on you.

    4. Re:Tether. by icebike · · Score: 1

      RTFA: There are no wireless broadband providers available in the area, I already checked."

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    5. Re:Tether. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Zip on the schools website: 48859

      AT&T, Sprint, and Verizon all show coverage.
      AT&T doesn't have 3G, but does have coverage (meaning GPRS? I think)
      Verizon seems to have Extended Broadband coverage.
      Sprint has their mobile broadband network.
      T-Mobile doesn't cover the area, it just has roaming listed.

    6. Re:Tether. by bhtooefr · · Score: 1

      I'm wondering if the OP was looking for WISPs, like what you find in rural areas...

    7. Re:Tether. by Dun+Malg · · Score: 1

      it's freedom the same way crawling through a 16 inch drainage pipe from East Germany to West Germany is freedom.

      --
      If a job's not worth doing, it's not worth doing right.
    8. Re:Tether. by plover · · Score: 1

      it's freedom the same way crawling through a 16 inch drainage pipe from East Germany to West Germany is freedom.

      This is the closest (but not over) to Godwinning a thread than I have ever seen in my life. Well done, and congratulations!

      --
      John
  5. Use a VM by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    If they want you to install the client security agent, fine - install it in a VM under VMWare or VirtualBox. Either that, or make sure you have a firewall running and explicitly deny any traffic out from it.

    1. Re:Use a VM by Nimey · · Score: 3, Informative

      That may not work if the network authenticates against your MAC address.

      --
      Hail Eris, full of mischief...

      E pluribus sanguinem
    2. Re:Use a VM by Idiot+with+a+gun · · Score: 2, Informative

      As a tech support at another University that requires said "Client Security Agent," I can tell you this will not work. I have tried.

    3. Re:Use a VM by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Use VMWare's NAT service. Traffic appears to come from your machine.

      Or use tcpdump/ethereal and rewrite it...

    4. Re:Use a VM by lukas84 · · Score: 2, Informative

      That'd be stupid, it can be easily faked.

      I've secured school networks with 802.1x and EAP-TLS. Works fine - and VLAN assignment works automatically, depending on the computer plugged in.

    5. Re:Use a VM by MikeBabcock · · Score: 1

      MAC addresses are indeed easily faked.

      802.1x is a real option and not difficult to configure.

      --
      - Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
    6. Re:Use a VM by betterunixthanunix · · Score: 1

      No, because then users with slightly less technical ability will still end up screwed. The computer center should be forced to face the reality that not everyone is a complete moron, and that they are capable of managing their own computers. If they are worried that one user might cause service problems for another user, they should rethink the way they built their network.

      Policies like this just discourage people from ever trying anything different. New Linux users are quickly discouraged when they cannot access the Internet because of some arbitrary network access tool that was designed for Windows. Even if they won't listen, you should complain that you cannot run their CSA on your computer because you are a Linux user, and you are not willing to switch to Windows. Force them to at least acknowledge the existence of such people.

      --
      Palm trees and 8
    7. Re:Use a VM by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your joking right? A vm would work just fine

    8. Re:Use a VM by Idiot+with+a+gun · · Score: 1

      Oh yes, I was laughing out of control as I ran a VM on Ubuntu with windows and the CSA under it. Bloody hilarious. I was rolling by the time the internal VM could get on the internet, but the host OS was directed to registration. By the time I realized that all I'd managed to do was run a slow version of XP, I had literally laughed my ass off. Had to replace my chair.

    9. Re:Use a VM by ZorbaTHut · · Score: 3, Informative

      And then you set up the internal VM as a proxy, and you proxy your main computer's internet through the VM. Bam, problem solved.

      Seriously, think these things through.

      --
      Breaking Into the Industry - A development log about starting a game studio.
    10. Re:Use a VM by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But what if you use a Windows machine with the Client Agent as your router.

    11. Re:Use a VM by lukas84 · · Score: 1

      The computer center should be forced to face the reality that not everyone is a complete moron

      Users? In an education facility? Good joke, you almost had me there.

    12. Re:Use a VM by telchine · · Score: 1

      Seriously, think these things through.

      He works in tech support! You can't expect him to be able to think!

    13. Re:Use a VM by mysidia · · Score: 1

      802.1x can also be faked. Your adversary has access to the client software, with enough time and energy, they can reverse engineer it and get any keys they need to load them into their OS' 802.1x supplicant, and identify without using the agent.

    14. Re:Use a VM by uassholes · · Score: 1

      Well, then? What does work?

    15. Re:Use a VM by Idiot+with+a+gun · · Score: 1

      And this fixes the issue of the CSA how? The outside computer still needs to have the CSA, because if only the inside one has it, the outside will be blocked (silly to have a proxy with no internet access). So the outside one must have the CSA, and if you buy into the "They're watching us" theory, they'll notice. Overall, nothing is gained over a simple "Run Linux" option; which is possible since this is the same CSA my school uses, and I run almost exclusively linux.

    16. Re:Use a VM by fedcb22 · · Score: 1

      Because MAC addresses are impossible to change, right? Right?

    17. Re:Use a VM by Billly+Gates · · Score: 1

      The problem is that Cisco clean access agent slows sytems down and running through a VM in Ubuntu will slow your computer to a crawl which still does not solve the problem.

      Most schools like the one I go to let you not use the agent but you only have an hour of access. Mac users and Linux users have to restart their connections by the hour or use Windows. Nothing wrong with that unless your run wow or a webserver.

    18. Re:Use a VM by MobyDisk · · Score: 1

      And in doing so, you completely defeated the purpose - because now their software can sniff everything that goes through your computer, which is the very thing the person wanted to avoid.

    19. Re:Use a VM by jonbryce · · Score: 1

      You set the inside computer to be your router.

      They can then see what is going over the wires, but the could do that anyway, but they can't see what's on your outside computer's hard drive.

    20. Re:Use a VM by rtfa-troll · · Score: 1

      Do it the other way round. Your outside computer is the transparent proxying router. Your computer inside gets the same address as the outside one (or more likely is NATed onto it). Remember to do TTL regularisation and packet normalisation so all connections look like Windows (OpenBSD helps here). You may have a decent chance even against a minor BOFH...

      --
      =~ s,(.*),<sarcasm>$1</sarcasm>,g if any_point_you_wish();
    21. Re:Use a VM by jonbryce · · Score: 1

      Only problem is that it is easier to see in a VM from outside than it is to look outside from within a VM.

    22. Re:Use a VM by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Where's your hacker spirit? You don't just try it and dismiss it as "will not work."

      Why don't you find out why it doesn't work? Does the agent change settings on the OS inside the VM?

    23. Re:Use a VM by fastest+fascist · · Score: 1

      What won't work? The VM? The firewalling? Either?

    24. Re:Use a VM by antdude · · Score: 1

      Which school is that? :P

      --
      Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
    25. Re:Use a VM by colourmyeyes · · Score: 1
      From one of the pages the summary links to (https://cm1rr.cmich.edu/remediation/CSAstart.html):

      The CSA will make the following changes to your system:

      • Enable Windows Automatic Updates
      • Remove Network Bridging
      • Ensure Anti-virus application and up-to-date virus signatures
      --
      My grandmother used anecdotal evidence all the time, and she lived to be 120 years old.
    26. Re:Use a VM by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Authentication against MAC address is just short of worthless.
      Not being a fan of most windows firewalls, I have a Comodo Firewall running under Windows, and smoothwall running in vmware.
      Smoothwall is bound directly to the physical NIC and windows gets its IP addy from a virutal nic bound to the VM.

      Paranoid: Probably
      Effective: YES
      Perfect: Of course not. Its a freakin VM protecting the host! But honestly, its really not all that bad.

    27. Re:Use a VM by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      router with nat == vm and real os have same (external) mac address.
      the main advantage of running the trojan/scanner in a vm is
      that you are technically following their terms of use, so they can't kick you off.

    28. Re:Use a VM by ZorbaTHut · · Score: 1

      They own the internet connection. If they want to monitor you, they can monitor you there without you ever knowing about it or being able to stop it. This way, at least you can get Internet access without them being able to monitor anything besides your internet.

      --
      Breaking Into the Industry - A development log about starting a game studio.
    29. Re:Use a VM by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I will second this. this is exactly what CSA does, (above parallel comment "That may not work if the network authenticates against your MAC address.") CSA under linux just logs your browser and macaddress. Unfortunately if there's an error in the script, it doesn't work. Im still not online because of this. It looks for mozilla instead of firefox (idiots, perhaps i can download Opera ... oh wait. can't download, still not online.

    30. Re:Use a VM by ZorbaTHut · · Score: 1

      There are third-party proxies which can be installed.

      --
      Breaking Into the Industry - A development log about starting a game studio.
    31. Re:Use a VM by dbIII · · Score: 1

      If you have a machine without their spyware in it you can at least limit exactly what is sent out. As for the rest, take it as a lesson that everyone upstream of you owns all your packets, then look at ssh or various other ways to encapsulate things if that is still a problem (eg. in all sane cases your passwords won't be going out in plain text anyway, and for those insane cases like forums etc use a different password).
      I really don't like the idea of the application they require you to install if it wanders all over your disk scanning things.

    32. Re:Use a VM by ZorbaTHut · · Score: 1

      Another issue with this (besides the fact that I don't want the college spyware looking at my internal VM hard drive) is that VMs are not 100% efficient, and, in fact, are usually noticeably slower. I'd much rather be using the outside computer as my actual computer than the inside one.

      --
      Breaking Into the Industry - A development log about starting a game studio.
    33. Re:Use a VM by dissy · · Score: 1

      That may not work if the network authenticates against your MAC address.

      Of course that would work. All ethernet interfaces require a MAC address to function on an ethernet network.

      That should be a 'duh' statement.

      They have to get the MAC address SOMEHOW right? either by checking what is plugged in that port, or asking?
      Just be sure to give them the correct one!

    34. Re:Use a VM by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      MAC addresses can be changed. So all I would have to do is change my host MAC address to the same MAC as my VM.

    35. Re:Use a VM by Deanalator · · Score: 1

      Um, that's the exact scenario where it would work flawlessly. If you have a NAT style setup with your VMs, all traffic coming out of your VM looks like it is coming from your mac/ip. You probably would not even need to do any fancy tunneling tricks.

    36. Re:Use a VM by Deanalator · · Score: 1

      Dude, less drugs and try again. I have yet to meet the network I couldn't dig my way out of. You likely got tagged because your dhcp or your browser's useragent string got fingerprinted. If you can get on from a VM, there is ALWAYS a way to get out, even if you have to tunnel your connection, but it should not need to come to that.

    37. Re:Use a VM by pegdhcp · · Score: 1
      Unfortunately what you are missing there is that, from the perspective of a computer center manager in an academic institution there are "users" and there are "low level life forms, with some ability to press squarish plastic thingies on human-computer interface devices. Users are usually members of computer center staff and some (as in "not all of them") CS faculty, as they are instructors of most CC staff in their past and present courses. Only thing that is to be acknowledged would be the existence of either a new potential system manager for CC or a new addition to the background noise of problems...

      I did that, I would do it again if necessary. Basic reasons: behind such policies are:

      1) You do not have a big enough staff

      2) You definitely do not have a big enough budget for "daily use IT systems and network"

      3) You have some thousands of young and irresponsible users divided into three main classes:

      a) 80% or more who does not know fsck about computers aside from playing some games, browsing chatting, and think that "formatting" is a magical solution for each and every computer problem.

      b) 15% with various degrees of passable technical knowledge, who thinks only about various mischief forms...

      c) 5% potential future members of /.

      Given this scenario, every solution will end up as a limitation of services. And most CC managers, would love to see a few guys who is successfully breaking thru these limitations, in order to recruit them as, half time, small payment, assistant students.

      As a personal note; My CV is five pages long. One of these pages covers my activities in my old school's CC, and I still keep some of contacts made during my time there as business contacts. So somebody asking question on /. before college might wish consider his/her chances to hang around guys behind the firewall.

  6. No. by ChinggisK · · Score: 3, Informative

    Do all colleges have such extreme measures in place?

    No, mine doesn't. Technically we just have to have antivirus software installed, and keep up with MS's security patches, and they really don't ever even check for those.

    1. Re:No. by Macman408 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      One of my college roommates was responsible for the dorm networks; they definitely had policies that pissed people off (usually the people who were abusing the network the most), but it was done so that the limited resources were usable by everybody. Among them:

      P2P traffic was capped at 50% of total bandwidth.

      There was a rolling monthly bandwidth cap. Exceed it, and you were capped at 56k modem speeds for about a week until you were under the cap again. (On-campus traffic was not counted, and not limited; many large downloads such as linux distros were mirrored on-campus.)

      If you picked up a virus, you were isolated from the network. The only thing you could get to was windowsupdate.com, until you removed the virus and called the helpdesk to promise you had an antivirus installed.

    2. Re:No. by finalfrog · · Score: 5, Interesting

      My college doesn't require us to install anything to access the network. Of course that's mainly for two reasons: 1. If you're going to Harvey Mudd, you probably have mastered the basics and possibly several of the upper reaches of computer and internet security and those who haven't usually learn fast from their peers that do. 2. Honor Code. This is actually one of the basic tenets of Mudd, not just of computer usage, and it basically means "Use common sense and when that fails report yourself." It sounds crazy I know. You'd think it'd cause a breakdown of justice and total anarchy because no one would obey the rules which might very well happen on many larger campuses. But when you consider the kind of people that attend Mudd and its small size, it actually works darn well. Hell, it's worked for over 50 years and Mudd still turns out incredibly bright students either in spite of or because of the Honor Code depending on your view point. People actually do report themselves when they cause problems and there is a student run judiciary board for those who don't which runs quite efficiently. All in all, the policy causes less stress and anxiety for both the administration and the students than invasive strategies like the one described in the article.

    3. Re:No. by Tacvek · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Mine does not even require antivirus software, although they deliberately design the system into tricking students into installing it, and some other crap. However, if you machine is rooted, and begins disrupting the network, they reserve the right to ban your computer from the network.

      --
      Stylish sheet to fix many problems in Slashdot's D3: https://gist.github.com/801524
    4. Re:No. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      My sister goes to Central Michigan, and she got capped after using "too much" bandwidth talking to her boyfriend on Skype, so don't expect to use too much of the bandwidth even if you get around the program.

    5. Re:No. by TimothyDavis · · Score: 1

      What is odd to me about this is that the network should be able to treat your machine as a black box, and monitor what is coming in and out. Who the hell cares if you are running anti-virus on your personal machine? If, on the other hand, you have a virus which is sending broadcast packets out onto the network, then the IT guys should easily be able to shut down your port.

      Computers are going to get viruses and malware just like humans catch viruses and bacterial infections. Anti-virus is only a layer of protection, not protection itself. The focus should be on identifying computers who are spreading sickness to be quarantined, and then offer a charged service to clean up the computer (for those who cannot find a geek to befriend).

    6. Re:No. by lukas84 · · Score: 1

      Running an IDS that can monitor every single port is _expensive_.

    7. Re:No. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Skype is a P2P program and it becomes a router when run. It uses up allot of bandwidth and cpu. This is why I dont use it at all ever. First I did not want to allow it to use up my bandwidth that im paying for to route other peoples traffic on behalf of the skype owners, also for legal reasons. Secondly I do not know what the number crunching skype does when it thinks im away from my computer. What it reencrypts the traffic? Cracks codes for some bisarre security service somewhere?

    8. Re:No. by wstrucke · · Score: 1

      I can see my sister running into the same problem. Did you, by chance, ask her if she also had LimeWire installed and running at startup?

    9. Re:No. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      At my uni they have decent network security and just recomend MS users to keep upto date, as a good 20-30% of people here are using linux and about 70% duel booting chances of forcing a security program are slim to nill. IT works for us, we don't work for IT.

    10. Re:No. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      woo, harvey mudd!

      -steve, class '02

    11. Re:No. by jonwil · · Score: 1

      The way to go with P2P is to throttle it at the border between the dorm networks and the rest of campus but allow it to go freely on the dorm networks. That encourages sharing to take place inside the dorm network (i.e. people will try and share shit locally instead of pulling it down over expensive off-campus links)

    12. Re:No. by bwcbwc · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately, I don't think "honor code" and "public university" go very well together. Although I'll be the first to admit I don't know that any public university has actually tried it.

      --
      We are the 198 proof..
    13. Re:No. by moosesocks · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Every honor code I've ever heard of has been used as a tool for a college to rid itself of students that it deems undesirable. In my experience, enforcement of these codes varies enormously. Recently, the University of Virginia came under fire for using its honor code to expel students for seemingly trivial offenses.

      Honor codes are great in theory, although the ones I've seen put far too much power in the hands of far too few.

      --
      -- If you try to fail and succeed, which have you done? - Uli's moose
    14. Re:No. by Shikaku · · Score: 1

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skype_security

      Skype is P2P software. They use the users as servers.

    15. Re:No. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      These are very reasonable policies, if caps are needed at all, do a soft cap (as you are doing) rather than hard cap. Speaking as someone that's used P2P, I don't expect it to run at max speed all the time, and it should be more "best effort" compared to browsing, ssh, telnet, streaming, etc.

    16. Re:No. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      P2P traffic was capped at 50% of total bandwidth.

      That's all? On my campus, Limewire wouldn't even connect, and firing it up for all of the five minutes it took to discover that earned me an e-mail from the IT department telling me to uninstall Limewire immediately.

    17. Re:No. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hopefully it also found and shared that folder full of "special" photos when it scanned her computer for media (you know, the ones for her boyfriend...).

    18. Re:No. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Way to do an advert troll on your college.

    19. Re:No. by green_shadow622 · · Score: 1

      Mine neither, All it requires us to do to have access to its wireless network is login with our student ID and password. And even so, most people with laptops just take the ethernet cables from the computers and jack their laptops right in instead, since it's alot easier, and since the wifi at my college kinda sucks, especially in the tech sector. And on top of all that, our college network is usually infected with 1 or 2 viruses at once that AVG gets each and every time, but our IT people just can't seem to get rid of. Ahhhh, the joys of knowing your tuition fees are well spent in making sure that the employees are not competent whatsoever in their field of expertise.

  7. Virtualbox + OpenVPN by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Use Virtualbox to run the security agent in a virtual machine and OpenVPN to tunnel your traffic to a host on a less bigbrotherish network. If you feel like going against administration, you could also try to get the policy changed...

  8. Question by Vinegar+Joe · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Are you required to run Windows? If not, don't.

    --
    "The average reporter we talk to is 27 years old......They literally know nothing." - Ben Rhodes
  9. That's insane. by KingSkippus · · Score: 5, Informative

    Dude, I don't know what to say, that's insane. The only suggestion I have is to either not use the Internet on your personal computer or find another university to go to. sigh... Looks like along with all the other stuff that determines what school a kid goes to, we're going to have to add "how screwed up is your Internet access policy?" to the list.

    Stupid question, what if your machine is a Mac or Linux box? This "Client Security Agent" seems to be a Windows-only beast. Whatever it is, it would be a cold day in hell before I let a university that I'm paying money to dictate that I have to have their software on my machine to use the Internet access that my tuition and fees are paying for!

    Looks to me like a clear-cut case of some overzealous IT goob forgotting who is paying whose salary. I'm not saying that you're the Chairman of the Board, but you most certainly should expect to have the right to have full access to this academic resource without this kind of burden.

    As a practical matter, you could just call up their IT department and tell them that you have a Linux box, even if you have Windows, and that your machine doesn't run their "Client Security Agent." Whatever they tell you to do to get on the network, just do that on your Windows machine and be done with it. If they tell you that it can't be done, seriously. Go somewhere else. If this university is that stupid, you shouldn't particularly want a diploma from there anyway.

    If you do call them up and ask about Macs and Linux machines, let us know what they say.

    1. Re:That's insane. by Idiot+with+a+gun · · Score: 5, Informative

      I'm a tech support (ResNet, CMU has it too) at a different university that has a similar "Client Security Agent." I'm not sure who provides their CSA, but ours only checks for antivirus, antivirus updates, windows updates, and common P2P programs (usually limewire). If anyone fails these, they are instructed to uninstall limewire, update anti-virus, whatever, and rescan. We don't prosecute based off of any data, but it's more of a prevention system to avoid any DMCA notices.

      That being said, this is for windows only. Mac and Linux are only single time scans (for what, I do not know), and after that your MAC is white listed with your ID. The beauty is that once registered, it's MAC specific, not OS. I should note that our provider is promising a Client Security Agent for Mac soon, but I doubt a Linux one is coming.

    2. Re:That's insane. by MikeBabcock · · Score: 1

      So grab a laptop with a fresh copy of Windows, assign it your PC's MAC address, install the software and get it white-listed and voila, you can use your own PC on the network now.

      --
      - Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
    3. Re:That's insane. by Registered+Coward+v2 · · Score: 1

      Looks to me like a clear-cut case of some overzealous IT goob forgotting who is paying whose salary. I'm not saying that you're the Chairman of the Board, but you most certainly should expect to have the right to have full access to this academic resource without this kind of burden.

      You seem to be confused about who really matters at a university. Clue: The faculty.

      --
      I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
    4. Re:That's insane. by Idiot+with+a+gun · · Score: 4, Informative

      Poor decision. Once you register as windows, it'll check every 2 weeks for a CSA scan. If you install windows, register, then switch OS's, in two weeks it'll go "Hey! You're a windows box, where is your CSA?" and drop you off the network.

    5. Re:That's insane. by binarythoughts · · Score: 2, Informative
    6. Re:That's insane. by betterunixthanunix · · Score: 1

      A problem we had at my school was that the Linux CSA was distributed as a binary executable, and it had been compiled on RHEL5. Fedora 8+ did not work because of newer libraries, new versions of Ubuntu did not work, and other distros failed really hard.

      We also had a small group of BSD users who were left completely out in the cold, and an even smaller group of OpenSolaris users who were also unable to register. That is the problem with these CSA programs -- they cannot work for everyone. The previous policy was a lot better: if you did something that actually harmed others' use of the network, then you were kicked off. No registration, no muss, no fuss -- just a simple policy that left everyone happy. I have no idea why that policy was dropped.

      --
      Palm trees and 8
    7. Re:That's insane. by nhytefall · · Score: 1

      No, no ... not insane. Probably, pretty damn smart of them. Rationale? Legal expense of having to deal with media company lawyers every time a college kid mistakenly believes that they can download whatever they want from the internet, and it's okay. "Fair Use" and all that other bullshit that /.'ers have a tendency to spout. Fact remains, the university's network is their network. If you want access to it, you have to play by their rules. End of story. Oh, and before any of the less informed and more opinionated members decide to respond with more typical /. nonsense, remember... despite the fact that "taxpayer" dollars do fund the institution, that does not give a student unlimited rights to whatever the fuck they want to. Public university, private network. Access to it, is subject to their needs from a security/legal/privacy aspect. In short, OP... you are stuck with it. Move along, move along.

      --
      0100010001101001011001 0100100000011010010110 1110001000000110000100 1000000110011001101001 0111001001100101
    8. Re:That's insane. by izomiac · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Lying about your OS might not work. My university used a similar system and it definitely used OS fingerprinting techniques. I basically was dual-booting Windows and the BeOS and used Linux in a VM. In exact, one week intervals I'd be forced to log in (all outbound traffic blocked, DNS resolved everything to their internal HTTPS server, all HTTP was redirected to a captive portal page, screwing up caching of SSL certificates and DNS in the process of course). The page used the User Agent string to determine whether to show a log-in form or to merely insist you download "Cisco Clean Access". But, changing one's User Agent still didn't allow logging in, that's where the OS fingerprinting came into play.

      That was the only part that used fingerprinting though. I found that I could log in from the BeOS or from Linux in a VM, so that's what I always did. Assuming the programmers behind that system are competent, I'd think they've patched that hole by now. People using Cisco Clean Access never saw that page, so I doubt they always got downloads and online games disconnected on weekly intervals. Anyway, I was using a heavily nLited and tweaked version of XP, so I knew it was secured (yes, I double checked with antivirus scans and blackhat tools every now and then), but Cisco Clean Access didn't (it apparently couldn't determine the patch status of some windows component I'd removed). I could log in with another OS and simply reboot to use Windows though. CCA was kinda a pain for normal users as well. My roommate came in with a decently updated Vista machine and basic computer usage skills (he could download and install software easily enough). I timed him, it took him six hours to clear all of CCA's requirements.

      Oh, amusingly enough I complained about the system before it was fully implemented, asking about how they expected game consoles to log in, or how dual-boot users like myself would be affected. The IT person I talked to had no idea about dual-booters, but stated that game consoles weren't allowed on the network because they can't run an antivirus. After I pointed out that it's almost unheard of for such devices to be infected (and a few reasons why), he replied that he'd seen it happen in his personal experience, and provided a link of "such a case" (it was to a security bulletin for law enforcement saying that modded Xboxes might contain hacking tools). I kinda chuckled when I saw the system-wide e-mail a week after implementation saying that policy had been reversed, and that IT would whitelist game console MAC addresses upon request.

    9. Re:That's insane. by maxume · · Score: 1

      Central is pretty student oriented; they have to be to compete with community colleges (which are about one step down) and Michigan State and Western Michigan (which are about one step up).

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    10. Re:That's insane. by Idiot+with+a+gun · · Score: 1

      We had that here too (We use Bradford also). Workaround? Take the libraries it was compiled for, and distribute them in .deb .rpm and .tar.gz format along with the registering executable. Remove them once registered.

    11. Re:That's insane. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Uh, actually, most of the school's operating budget comes from (1) research grants, mostly from federal agencies, (2) federal and state money going directly to the university, (3) endowment, if any, (4) alumni donations and private companies. Public or private, universities care first and foremost about their research, whatever they say in the admission package notwithstanding. Neither the professors nor their funders (see above) have a lot of patience when there are thousands of little spam factories on the uni network slowing everyone down (and probably worse things too associated with the horde of zombiebots).

      To the original poster: some of the tips that have been suggested will probably work. Better yet, you can probably find someone on campus that managed to circumvent it to your satisfaction. But if you're going to do that, you're taking responsibility for keeping your computer clean. Deal?

    12. Re:That's insane. by betterunixthanunix · · Score: 1

      What about BSD or Solaris users? A minority, yes, but why should they be discriminated against? What about someone running Linux on a PS3 (PowerPC arch)?

      --
      Palm trees and 8
    13. Re:That's insane. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is the idiocy of IT people. Apparently, they don't understand that MAC addresses can be spoofed. Eventually a MAC address that is whitelisted will be found and game over. The whole point of this insanity is broken.

    14. Re:That's insane. by mysidia · · Score: 1

      Without registration, you can go to a different lab, plug in, and get right past the ban.

      Also, identifying who and where you are exactly in order to contact you and effectively implement any sort of ban or measure other than a ban could be a problem.

    15. Re:That's insane. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      " . . . who really matters at a university. Clue: The faculty."
      Really? A lot of faculty feel neglected and abused, too.

      If you can afford it, how about two computers? One knows how to connect to their net (a netbook should do) and is a clean install of whatever OS they expect plus their snoopware. It needs enough disk room to temporarily store any downloads you might want to store, enough memory for browsing, and a switch to take it off their net if its connection is wireless.
      The second, the one you have been using a while, isn't intended to be connected to their net, but can be ad hoc connected to the first one.

    16. Re:That's insane. by betterunixthanunix · · Score: 1

      You can ban by MAC address if you are worried about someone moving to a different port. Do it at the switch level, so that even if someone moves around, they cannot evade the ban.

      You cannot really identify *who* someone is just by their registration. That is why the policies always explicitly prohibit sharing user names (but there is really no way to stop people from doing this)...

      --
      Palm trees and 8
    17. Re:That's insane. by DMalic · · Score: 1

      I'm sure you're talking about Professor Nesson, right? After all, he's the only guy I can think of claiming that illegitimate, infringing wholesale use of copyrighted material (not archiving/etc) is fair use. Conversely, very many people are pushing the claim that fair use is so restricted and opaque that only lawyers or the highly educated should use it. That's dumb and bad for society.

    18. Re:That's insane. by nhytefall · · Score: 1

      Yes... he was the example I was citing.

      Doesn't change the fact that wanton P2P downloading of copyright-protected mp3, et al, isn't in the slightest bit legal.

      And, it also doesn't change the fact that, for the OP, he is jacking into a netowrk owned by comeone else... and thus, for the privilege of access, he has to agree to the terms as set forth.

      --
      0100010001101001011001 0100100000011010010110 1110001000000110000100 1000000110011001101001 0111001001100101
    19. Re:That's insane. by DMalic · · Score: 1

      Yes, and that's fine as long as the college has reasonable policies and exemptions where they are appropriate. Fortunately, he can apply some pressure (even if small) on them to ensure that they keep up their end of the bargain. I have sympathy for both sides (trying to keep a college network clean and functional has to be a trying job at times). Nonetheless, the "well, we own the network, so we can burn your money and kick you in the balls while laughing" attitude does no-one good in the long run.

    20. Re:That's insane. by larsu · · Score: 1

      I manage a team of network admins at a university that uses the same software as CMU. The software does have agents available for Mac and Linux too.

      Stupid question, what if your machine is a Mac or Linux box? This "Client Security Agent" seems to be a Windows-only beast. Whatever it is, it would be a cold day in hell before I let a university that I'm paying money to dictate that I have to have their software on my machine to use the Internet access that my tuition and fees are paying for!

      Here's the problem. The IT staff has a number of conflicting expectations for the network. There are N-1 other students at the university also paying tuition and they also expect the network to work. School administration expects it to work, with priority given to academic purposes. While it isn't ideal to require that students trust our software to run on their computer, it allows the school's IT staff to ensure computers comply with policy (current AV, anti-spyware, etc), and that computers that are causing network problems can be quickly identified and the problem mitigated. (And believe me, a comprehensive network access system greatly speeds problem resolution, both for the network and the student.) Keeping bad computers off the network lets the network keep working for everyone else that didn't mess up their computer with malicious software. It'd be nice to somehow exempt students that know what they're doing from this intrusive, annoying process. But like many things, a few bad apples ruin it for everyone.

      The software allows policies to be set for AV existence and version, anti-spyware, and OS version and updates. It also allows custom scans to be written to check for files and registry keys. No other info gets sent to the administrators other than if you have failed or passed such a scan. No one is spying on you, or cares that much about what's on your computer. They just want the network to work.

      There are agentless NAC solutions available, but they are more annoying for the user and less correct for the administrators. Having no NAC really isn't a feasible option anymore for schools of any decent size, as they need to comply with CALEA and respond to RIAA, REN-ISAC, and other internal/external complaints. If you don't trust your school, and are that concerned about running untrusted code from a vendor picked by your school, then don't. Don't use the network, and have fun with your protest. The administrators aren't forcing this upon the students because they're unsympathetic to their concerns. But rather, because they need to serve all students well.

    21. Re:That's insane. by BronsCon · · Score: 1

      Ask how many students' tuition go toward paying the jerkwad who instituted the policy. Round up that many students, plus yourself; all of you write letters to said jerkwad stating that you will no longer be attending this university if this policy is not changed. Forward copies of these letters to the dean; when he sees that this jerkwad is costing the uni more than twice his salary, he'll be faced with a "fix it or fuck off" proposition.

      This is how things get done. Make him realize that you pay his salary and show him that his policy is going to cause the loss of said salary.

      --
      APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
    22. Re:That's insane. by CronoCloud · · Score: 1

      What about someone running Linux on a PS3 (PowerPC arch)?

      Will someone please think of the Linux on PS3 users

      [CronoCloud@mideel ~]$ gcc -dumpmachine
      ppc64-yellowdog-linux

      Yeah, binary only is useless for us because it's almost always x86, so no Dwarf Fortress or those university Cisco VPN clients that are x86 only.

    23. Re:That's insane. by minder49 · · Score: 1

      Whatever it is, it would be a cold day in hell before I let a university that I'm paying money to dictate that I have to have their software on my machine to use the Internet access that my tuition and fees are paying for!

      Gee, I thought you were paying tuition for the education you are trying to get. If it is all about the internet access, well, I can see why you are upset! Thats alot of money to pay for surfing the web, but at least the classes are free!

      Grow up. You are using resources that belong to the university. They determine the conditions under which those resources are used and allocated. You don't like it, don't use it. That is why the colleges and universities have open computer labs. Use their equipment, and you have no fears!

      This rampant attitude of entitlement that is being expressed here is making me sick. This is nothing but an issue of the university trying to make sure a valuable resource is available to its students. It is not an attempt to scan your fils, track your surfing or blocking your downloads. You are not that important.

    24. Re:That's insane. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They're likely running a Cisco NAC device. In theory, there are "clean access" clients that work on Windows, Mac, and Linux. Before you go spouting off on how bad this policy is, do some research on what those clients do: They check to see if your computer has up-to-date antivirus software installed, and if your OS has the latest security patches in place.

      While it may seem stupid to you on the face of things, keep in mind that you're connecting to their network. The policy is there to keep the (often irresponsible) students from connecting their virus/malware laden machines on the network, and infecting everyone else. It's also (probably) in place to comply with federal wiretapping laws.

      If you really want to do something about it, go to an SGA meeting. Write a piece for your university's newspaper. Most students don't have the foggiest idea what this kind of policy means. But enough outcry from concerned students is pretty much the only way you'll get the IT department to budge, and even then I wouldn't expect the policy to go away.

      Better yet, make a copy of the university's usage policies and update them yourself. It looks like they haven't been updated in over a decade. Send a copy along with your correspondence to the SGA/OIT.

      If you can't be bothered to change things, just use TOR and save your documents on a thumb drive. Or move off-campus. Or get a cellular data plan.

  10. Mod Parent Up Please! :) by gavron · · Score: 5, Informative
    Run Linux. That's the answer. The silly Windows agent won't run on it, and your files can even be protected through filesystem encryption, and safe from magically being shared with spyware writers, botnet managers, and spam sources.

    E

    1. Re:Mod Parent Up Please! :) by binarylarry · · Score: 5, Informative

      Yep and you could run windows in a virtual machine with NAT setup and the client installed. That way, they'd get to scan "your machine" but wouldn't be able to access anything on the Linux side.

      --
      Mod me down, my New Earth Global Warmingist friends!
    2. Re:Mod Parent Up Please! :) by artor3 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Of course, other silly Windows programs, like SolidWorks, PSpice, Photoshop won't run either. Might make certain classes difficult depending on your major, though I'm sure it can be worked around. In the worst case, you could keep a Windows partition specifically for essential programs.

    3. Re:Mod Parent Up Please! :) by RichardJenkins · · Score: 2, Informative

      You could run the agent in a wine environment without access to your real file system.

    4. Re:Mod Parent Up Please! :) by Anpheus · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Or you could do the exact same thing with Windows if you don't run programs willy nilly and use a more secure (or at least, minority market share) browser.

      And you could use filesystem encryption and run the Client Security Agent under a low-privilege account, which you could make not capable of seeing certain folders on your hard drive. Just make it able to scan a couple token Program Files folders, its own folder in %appdata%, and %windir% and you'll probably be fine.

      Dealing with idiotic, forced software is a pain no matter what your OS is.

    5. Re:Mod Parent Up Please! :) by Jurily · · Score: 5, Insightful

      x86 virtualization is about basically placing another nearly full kernel, full of new bugs, on top of a nasty x86 architecture which barely has correct page protection. Then running your operating system on the other side of this brand new pile of shit. You are absolutely deluded, if not stupid, if you think that a worldwide collection of software engineers who can't write operating systems or applications without security holes, can then turn around and suddenly write virtualization layers without security holes.

      -- Theo de Raadt

    6. Re:Mod Parent Up Please! :) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You should be fine simply _saying_ you run linux. I've done this before in similar situations, and they just say "OK" and let you proceed when you claim that. Of course, you're "signing" some (probably unenforceable) TOS....so maybe you don't want to do that at your own school. Parent probably suggested the safest answer. :-)

    7. Re:Mod Parent Up Please! :) by solafide · · Score: 4, Informative

      Last time I experienced this sort of stupidity, the program was a proxy/filter, and the solution to Linux was 'Windows/Macs only on campus.' Best of luck.

    8. Re:Mod Parent Up Please! :) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      While that's good to be aware of if you're a bank or government - remember that this is a student vs college here, so for this particular purpose, it'll work. At most I'd imagine the college scanning for music files, they aren't the NSA trying to see if you have ties to the North Korean government...

    9. Re:Mod Parent Up Please! :) by mysidia · · Score: 1

      And when they tell you, "Then you can't use our network. You'll need to install a supported Operating System first" ??

    10. Re:Mod Parent Up Please! :) by maxume · · Score: 1

      This particular game is all about estimating your opponent. As you point out, it is possible that the security tool the college installs is incredibly powerful, but it isn't particularly likely.

      I guess it is pretty likely that they notice a bunch of VM drivers though.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    11. Re:Mod Parent Up Please! :) by mysidia · · Score: 2, Informative

      Perhaps the security agent could be run in a WinJail install.

      Or virtualization solution like iCore Virtual Accounts.

      Or inside a VMware Virtual Machine configured for NAT or on another desktop machine configured for bridging (if you have two).

      Depending on if the identification of the security agent is by port or by MAC address...

      You could conceivably load up the VM once to run the security agent when you turned up the port, then shutdown the VM and temporarily change your MAC address to the VM's former MAC address if necessary.

    12. Re:Mod Parent Up Please! :) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Well, in this particular case, the OP doesn't require a system that is fully secure against every conceivable threat. What they need is a system that is secure against one particular known threat - one that probably isn't updated very often and whose authors probably have never contemplated exploiting virtualization security leaks to ensure that the systems they're scanning are truly being scanned.

      Yes, there's a possibility of introducing additional security holes this way, but generic security threats to a personal machine can mostly be evaded the same way everyone else does: by practicing safe surfing habits, being careful with flash drives, and using an appropriate firewall.

    13. Re:Mod Parent Up Please! :) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      A good example how a guy who, despite having made a name for himself as a programmer, can still be very wrong regarding issues he has no intimate knowledge about.

    14. Re:Mod Parent Up Please! :) by turbidostato · · Score: 1

      "Run Linux. That's the answer."

      Yes. And you can even go beyond that. If their answer to your "I run Linux" is "but... run Windows then", you could use the everloved windozer answer: Hey, I'm here to learn [whatever], not to waste my time with learning computers, so I use Linux and don't want to waste my time learning Windows. Even if it doesn't work you will have some fun time doing it (unless you are there to learn IT, of course).

    15. Re:Mod Parent Up Please! :) by Dun+Malg · · Score: 4, Insightful

      We all know Theo de Raadt is an ass. While what he says is factually correct, it also completely misses the nature of most security situations. 99% of the security out there is of a casual nature. Most of us are not working for the NSA or DoD, so we are not likely to be specifically targeted. If you are a target singled out, yes, Theo's point is valid: a determined attacker will find a way through because the second and third layers are not any better built than the first. That's not the security situation most of us face, though. For the most part we only need to make our information a degree more difficult to get at than everyone else's. A virtual machine will do that. So will running Linux. As would running OSX, though to a lesser degree. Now, if everyone were running virtual machines, he'd have a valid point because the low hanging fruit would be the virtual machine. But since VMs are a novelty to most, they're unlikely to be targeted, which makes Theo's rant just more of his usual hot gas.

      --
      If a job's not worth doing, it's not worth doing right.
    16. Re:Mod Parent Up Please! :) by zach297 · · Score: 1

      The great thing about virtualization is that the trojans required by the school won't know to look beyond the virtualization because they can't tell the difference between real and fake hardware.

    17. Re:Mod Parent Up Please! :) by Cassini2 · · Score: 2, Informative

      At my university, they explicitly exempt Macs and Linux from having to use Cisco Clean Access. They port scan the Linux / Mac box, and use network level checks to make sure your computer is secure (or at least appears secure.)

      The big problems are with Windows. With a campus as big as ours, all Windows boxes must run an up to date virus scanner. This policy must be enforced. To do otherwise is just stupid. Every computer, even Linux machines, are continuously being probed looking for vulnerable ports. People have targeted our university with custom spam, and custom port scanning attacks. Machines from senior staff have gotten virus infected, even when running current anti-virus software, and have been used to distribute spam. Users are also stupid. One inadvertently used a restricted access mailing list to spam the entire university, ironically with a complaint saying "Stop Spamming Me!"

      With 20,000+ PCs on the network, bad things happen.

    18. Re:Mod Parent Up Please! :) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Since Windows/Mac can get viruses, you have to use our security software to be able to use the University connection. However, since our software doesn't work on Linux, you are not allowed to use Linux."

      Does anyone see the irony in that?

    19. Re:Mod Parent Up Please! :) by billcopc · · Score: 1

      A simple iptables rule could drop all packets coming from the port-scanning host, and it sounds like the kind of thing a Linux enthusiast would do just to spite the network admin...

      --
      -Billco, Fnarg.com
    20. Re:Mod Parent Up Please! :) by Kalriath · · Score: 1

      You'd be wrong there. VMWare, Virtual PC, Hyper V, Parallels, VirtualBox, etc, all emulate very specific sets of hardware, and it's VERY possible for software running on the virtualised system to detect that it's virtualised based on what hardware is present.

      --
      For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".
    21. Re:Mod Parent Up Please! :) by Kalriath · · Score: 1

      They'd probably remediate your PC for that. And why would you anyway? They're trying to enforce network security in the most efficient way possible. Quick nmap scans tell them that the Linux/Mac PCs are OK so they don't need to run CCA or similar agents, while they figure they can't trust the Windows users to maintain the security themselves (probably right to be honest -I use Windows primarily and still believe that most Windows users couldn't secure their way out of a paper bag). I mean, they could just ban Linux and Mac?

      --
      For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".
    22. Re:Mod Parent Up Please! :) by Shikaku · · Score: 1

      http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=application&iId=17

      http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&iId=1026

      Most programs work well in Wine now. Solidworks link was not added because it has not been tested on a recent Wine build in a long time, but I bet it works at least pretty well.

    23. Re:Mod Parent Up Please! :) by celle · · Score: 1

      But some IT departments and university admins like to think their the NSA and often behave like it. Remember these are students with few resources to fight overbearing departments.

    24. Re:Mod Parent Up Please! :) by dbIII · · Score: 1

      Theo is dead right in this case despite the emotive language. Virtualisation was just not written with security as a consideration. You have to use something else where security is the primary goal over the top of it (or upstream). The maintainers of Qemu used to have a warning about that right on their front web page before you downloaded anything.

    25. Re:Mod Parent Up Please! :) by dranorter · · Score: 1

      Not on my campus no sir. Well, this policy is fairly new, but I don't think my Linux computer will stop being able to connect, seeing as it hasn't yet.

    26. Re:Mod Parent Up Please! :) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We use it on our campus. There's a Linux version of it now too. It only scans the Windows machines though. It just appears to sit there and idle, using system resources, on Linux/OSX.

    27. Re:Mod Parent Up Please! :) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      woosh.

      Much like space travel, OpenBSD has resulted in all kinds of nice offshoots. Take everything with a grain of salt of course, but remember where Theo comes from.

    28. Re:Mod Parent Up Please! :) by CronoCloud · · Score: 1

      There are people that run Linux on non x86 CPU's, WINE will not help them at all.

    29. Re:Mod Parent Up Please! :) by Cederic · · Score: 1

      Of course, if you're there to learn IT then you need to learn Linux..

    30. Re:Mod Parent Up Please! :) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      nevertheless; the fact it is used and advertised as a complete, fool proof way of putting multiple machines on a single piece of hardware is hopelessly flawed; and something that needs to be considered in any security situation.

    31. Re:Mod Parent Up Please! :) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And some of these piles of shit run hot too and that's the way we like it!!

    32. Re:Mod Parent Up Please! :) by argiedot · · Score: 1

      That's right, but completely irrelevant in context.

    33. Re:Mod Parent Up Please! :) by ais523 · · Score: 1

      I'm having fun over here running Linux whilst complying with the letter of the connect-to-our-networks policy at this University, which was written assuming Windows (I comply with the spirit too, but in a different way). For instance, I have antivirus software installed, just because the rules say that I have to; it doesn't have a whole lot to look for (there aren't many known viruses for Linux, so it mostly looks for Windows viruses on the offchance, and for other potentially problematic things such as logic bombs in zip files), but it's there. I get portscanned every time I connect, and yes, I do have iptables set up (via ufw) to drop those packets... (On the other hand, I'd drop those packets from anywhere else too; there are open ports but with random high numbers, none of the standard ones, and they're only open from certain directions. Also, with the exception of port 80, there isn't anything behind most of the standard ports to scan; the other daemons I only run when I plan to connect to them.) So it's not a case of "just to spite"; it's a case of "portscan clean, and enhance security at the same time". Now to figure out why I need to use KDE to connect to the connection here, and Gnome at home, and why it's the desktop environment that makes a difference rather than the network management applet...

      --
      (1)DOCOMEFROM!2~.2'~#1WHILE:1<-"'?.1$.2'~'"':1/.1$.2'~#0"$#65535'"$"'"'&.1$.2'~'#0$#65535'"$#0'~#32767$#1"
    34. Re:Mod Parent Up Please! :) by ivan256 · · Score: 1

      on top of a nasty x86 architecture which barely has correct page protection

      "In this country we have a term for being almost late; we call it 'on time'".

  11. Virtual Box? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Have you thought of running their spyware on a virtualbox session of whatever OS they support; and accessing only non-sensitive sites through that session. Can't you wait till you get home for the other stuff? If not maybe an encrypted pipe would do the trick.

  12. I've faced this same issue by reeeh2000 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    What I found to be the best solution is to run Linux. My campus required Cisco clean access agent and service pack 2 to use windows on the network. I wasn't required to as Linux is allowed to connect without these. As for other concerns I would suggest setting up a encrypted proxy server at home then connecting through it. This will also allow for torrenting and PvP file sharing as this is often blocked on campus.

  13. thumb drive linux by elwinc · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Build one of those "linux on a thumb drive" things and do your private stuff on that. You might be able to get away with a dual boot system; their app on the windows partition and privacy on the linux partition.

    --
    --- Often in error; never in doubt!
    1. Re:thumb drive linux by asdfndsagse · · Score: 1

      That doesn't have any real stats, like what class the flash is, 2MB/s, 4Mb/s, 15MB/s. It really matters.

  14. I had the same problem by Xocet_00 · · Score: 4, Informative

    We were required to have a "Cisco Clean Access Agent" installed on our machines. There were two options available for me, and I ended up going with the second.

    1) The clean access agent only actually requires that you "authenticate" as clean to the network about once every two weeks. I installed a copy of Windows on a small partition at the end of my drive, put the clean access agent on it and authenticated myself. Whenever I was "cut off" from the network, I would reboot into the other (isolated) Windows partition (make sure your actual in-use partitions aren't mounted), do a scan to regain access and then reboot again. Worked reasonably well.

    2) Because our network was so slow, I eventually decided that it wasn't worth the trouble. In the residence I was in the phones were provided by the local phone company and the cable was provided by the local cable company. It was a bit of a grey area regarding the policies in place in the residence, but I was able to have cable internet installed directly into my room. Perhaps you can do the same?

    1. Re:I had the same problem by Urza9814 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Yea, in response to number 2:

      My university (Penn State) has free telephone to every room, and the copper goes straight to the phone company. They actually tell you at the orientation stuff that you can go ahead and get DSL to your dorm if you don't like their network setup. Some people do, though not many. Though their network policy isn't bad...just a 4GB weekly bandwidth limit.

    2. Re:I had the same problem by mysidia · · Score: 1

      Um... 4GB is one Linux DVD download. And software development tools are usually distributed in fairly large chunks. e.g. Downloading a new version of the Windows platform SDK from MSDN or the Beta of Visual Studio 2010, Windows 7 RC2 or Windows 2008 R2 RC2... another 4GB a piece....

      That's a pretty low limit, for anyone in the computing field, at least, especially if you have to share it with a roommate...

    3. Re:I had the same problem by DMalic · · Score: 1

      Eww. I'm not generally a huge bandwidth user but I chewed through quite a bit after buying left4dead and the orange box (5 games for $10). Crap, just watching some of the nicer vids on Vimeo or Youtube HD (or some daily show) can eat 4 gigs (I'm usually playing a game or chatting, working, wtfever when I watch video).

    4. Re:I had the same problem by Urza9814 · · Score: 1

      Well, it's not shared with a roommate, and it's only on the wired dorm connections, not the campus wifi. So if you really need some heavy downloads, you can use that. Or you can use their web proxy, as any traffic through that also doesn't count. And they have local mirrors of a lot of Linux distros and apps, so those don't count either. I thought I would have trouble staying under it, but I still torrent games and such and have no problems.

  15. Virtual Machine by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Perhaps you could try installing those pieces of software within a virtual machine, and keep the virtual machine running all the time. Then it could return its results, and (hopefully) be sandboxed away from the rest of your system. In any case, make sure your concerns/complaints are heard.

  16. My Solution by Adam+Zweimiller · · Score: 5, Interesting

    When I was at the University of SC in 2004, they required you to install the Cisco Clean Access software which checked to make sure you were running the school provided AV and had all your windows updates among other things. I hated the school AV (mcafee) because it constantly had false positives on items on my computer and would delete without prompting. It gave no option to quarantine, ignore, etc...just delete. I noticed that if you didn't have the Cisco Clean Access software installed and tried to browse, you were given a web portal login for your school network credentials, very similar to the actual Cisco Win32 software. After logging in you were prompted to download the Cisco software via the web portal along with McAfee and whatever else. I noticed in the school policy that Mac's and Linux clients were exempt. I booted OpenSuse, was greeted by the same web portal, but when I logged in, it told me I had a 7 day lease rather than telling me to download the Cisco crap. I went back to XP, downloaded User Agent Switcher for Firefox and faked my user agent to linux when logging into the web portal. It told me I had a 7 day lease and I was able to switch back my default FF user agent until I was prompted to login 7 days later. User Agent Switcher lets you save presets in a menu so switching is easy. I don't know if your school is setup the same way but you might want to try it. I was really surprised that with all the money and manpower that my school put into implementing all these policies that it was defeated by a first year student with a simple Firefox extension. Good luck, I really do feel your pain.

    --
    mmm...muffins
    1. Re:My Solution by lorenlal · · Score: 4, Informative

      McAfee? Wow.

      I happen to do a little work for a local in a town that some of us are familiar with. She happens to be involved with the local university who also uses McAfee as their supported antivirus solution. I got called in a panic by this person because her system was crazy infected. It turned out that the infection disabled the McAfee framework service (which can't be started in safe mode) and totally owned her laptop.

      The reason? The updates stopped working. I opted to put AVG free on there asked her to try it out, and if she wanted to we could look into purchasing the more complete suite if she wanted.

      Point of the story? I'm rather upset that CMU, or other schools would *force* a particular AV solution. I'm more upset that they force down one that has, IMHO, a critical flaw in design. Namely, you can't update, install, or uninstall the scanner in safe mode (yes, safe mode with networking). It just sets up too easily for a massive infection. Fortunately, the policy of the University I mentioned earlier did not have restrictions on AV, so this was still acceptable.

      I don't know what deal McAfee has with pretty much everyone that provides AV to "non-commercial" users... but I find it terrible, resource intensive, and just too easy to knock out.

    2. Re:My Solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    3. Re:My Solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If I remember right, the new versions of CCA aren't fooled by Agent spoofing anymore. It checks the OS via other methods now (Java?). MAC address spoofing is one of the only ways to go.

    4. Re:My Solution by Z34107 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I second everything that you say about McAfee.

      I work help desk at a McAfee campus and am also responsible for doing repairs on student and faculty computers.

      You have to register your computer using a special utility that records your MAC address and whether or not you have McAfee installed. In the mean time, you'll get an IP address from the "unregistered" block and the firewall won't let any of your traffic leave the LAN.

      (Yes, this can be spoofed by wireshark-ing a registered person's MAC address, or even uninstalling McAfee after registering. But, that's beyond five nine's of students on campus.)

      So, every computer on campus, student and faculty, has an updated version of McAfee 8.5i. Yet I spend an awful lot of time removing viruses from those computers throughout the year. Even AVG works better, for crying out loud!

      We also use Faronics DeepFreeze on machines meant for student use; we're permitted to move McAfee from those machines because in theory virus infection is impossible. Those machines work about twice as fast as their unfrozen counterparts.

      It's standard practice to not even try to boot up an infected machine because the more interesting infections do a good job of preventing most of your tools from running - it's easier to pop out the hard drive, hook it up to a USB->IDE/SATA adapter, and mount it on our help desk machine and do an offline scan.

      We used to use McAfee for doing these offline scans - but then we realized it would take a few hours to scan the drive and would miss most of the infection. (If it's "spyware" or "adware" and not a bona-fide "virus" it won't detect it at all. Most of our infections are "XP Antivirus".)

      It does NOTHING and makes the computer it's installed on unbearably slow. Plus, a site license seems to be rather costly. Our current routine is do a 30minute-ish offline scan using MalwareBytes, pop the hard drive back in, and run ComboFix or SpyBot SD to repair the registry. Most viruses are gone in about an hour - no thanks to McAfee.

      Sorry for the rant! At least we aren't stuck with Symantec/Norton.

      --
      DATABASE WOW WOW
    5. Re:My Solution by lukas84 · · Score: 1

      The only way to "clean" an infected operating system is to reload it from the last, clean, uninfected backup or the original install media.

    6. Re:My Solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Idle curiosity, has anyone ever called you a retarded, pompous, self-important shitcock?

    7. Re:My Solution by uvsc_wolverine · · Score: 1

      No. But I am quite tired of having to track down students that think they're smarter than our whole IT department and feed them some humble pie.

      --
      This space for rent...
    8. Re:My Solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Updates fail all the time on McAfee. That's why they have "ePolicy Orchestrator" to monitor VirusScan clients on the network.

    9. Re:My Solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Then consider yourself called a retarded, pompous, self-important shitcock.

      You have a nice day now.

    10. Re:My Solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Indeed, if a machine at the school I work at is infected, I do a backup of the user's home folder and then re-image the machine. Just because a Windows install looks "clean" it doesn't make it so.

    11. Re:My Solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As someone who works the campus IT desk that does not use an agent, but does use Mcafee for enterprise. It is configurable whether it deletes viruses or false positives. Right-click on the M icon in the system tray. Mcafee is used for many corporations. They've had one major error in the past where they flagged excel as a false positive. Do you really think they would leave this as a non-configurable setting?

      Have you thought about filing a support ticket with your helpdesk?

      --Sam

    12. Re:My Solution by lorenlal · · Score: 1

      To clarify (in case someone's still browsing back here): The updates on the central server were failing. This was not a case of an isolated client.

  17. Sandbox it with Sandboxie by BountyX · · Score: 1

    This is similar to the linux and virtual machine suggestions from above. Go here to download it. Once downloaded and installed, run their stupid little application in sandboxie and it will no longer be able to scan you machine. You can even specify which files/folders it has access to and if it has interenet access, etc. I believe that will solve your problem with minimal hassle.

    --
    Trying to install linux on my microwave, but keep getting a kernel panic...
    1. Re:Sandbox it with Sandboxie by BountyX · · Score: 2, Informative

      Forgot to mention, sandboxie can also be setup so that anytime their program is started, it will run inside of your specified sandbox automaitcally. Very useful for running keygens too, btw ;)

      --
      Trying to install linux on my microwave, but keep getting a kernel panic...
    2. Re:Sandbox it with Sandboxie by Idiot+with+a+gun · · Score: 2, Informative

      Sandboxie is usually designed to protect your computer against malicious writes. Besides, at my university, if you sandbox the CSA to prevent certain reads or internet access, we'll just drop you off the network. If the CSA can't scan properly, or if the server doesn't hear back from it, it assumes you don't have it installed, and puts you into a small private VLAN, where every webpage except for university stuff, and anti-virus stuff is redirected to the "re-mediation" page.

    3. Re:Sandbox it with Sandboxie by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "we'll just drop you off the network"

      Given that attitude your handle is very fitting.

  18. Client Page. by themassiah · · Score: 1

    The client page says exactly what the client will do when it's installed. Nothing about sniffing traffic, scanning your hard drives, etc. Perhaps you could voice your concern to the HelpDesk or network engineers?

    --
    - Sometimes you're the pidgeon, sometimes you're the statue.
    1. Re:Client Page. by jimicus · · Score: 1

      The client page says exactly what the client will do when it's installed. Nothing about sniffing traffic, scanning your hard drives, etc. Perhaps you could voice your concern to the HelpDesk or network engineers?

      I don't know about the university where the OP is, but when I went to uni every question to anyone with any real understanding - and their replies, and any subsequent questions - had to be filtered through the helpdesk. Think chinese whispers.

      If you were lucky the person on the helpdesk had a clue what they were talking about and could be relied upon to write down what you said more-or-less verbatim. If you were unlucky....

    2. Re:Client Page. by uvsc_wolverine · · Score: 1

      ...and the Helpdesk or network engineers response will be: "We don't care what's on your computer as long as you are up to date security-wise. If you don't want to install the security software then we don't have to give you Internet access." I work in IT at a large University and this is exactly what we do. We do make rare exceptions to the security policy for certain edge cases (such as the occasional "The stupid crappy Cisco Clean Access software just won't freaking work!" or "I paid for an anti-virus that Clean Access doesn't support").

      --
      This space for rent...
  19. VPN by nurb432 · · Score: 1

    To get around the 'client security agent' tracking your apps/keystrokes/etc, use a VM and NAT the network connection. To get around the network tracking of what comes out of the VM you buy another PC and stick it at your parents or friends house somewhere else as a VPN server then use it to do all your 'sensitive' work. Then let them track it, its encrypted. The stuff you don't care about, go thru the school's network directly.

    I suppose you could use one of those free/pay proxies instead of a 'home VPN', but that would be a bit more obvious what you were doing and set off some red flags ( or is blocked in the first place ).

    Im assuming in this case its your PC and you can install whatever you please.

    Oh, and consider protesting.

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
  20. Wireless by cgitz · · Score: 1

    Find somebody that lives off campus - they probably have normal Cable or DSL. Setup a wireless link to their location and offer to pay for part of their Internet costs. There can be some complexities involved in setting up the wireless - you probably don't want it to be noticeable otherwise the school may make you take it down, so the shot probably has to be to somewhere you can see from your window.

    1. Re:Wireless by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's not a bad idea, IF you can find someone, but who cares about whether it's detected? Just encrypt the wireless network, there's nothing the school can do to shut down someone's private personal wireless network... there's probably about a dozen of them encroaching on campus property anyway. They have no way of even knowing you're able to connect to the secured network without running wireless sniffing equipment and triangulating on your signal...

  21. entrepreneur by TheSHAD0W · · Score: 4, Interesting

    "There are no wireless broadband providers available in the area, I already checked."

    Start one. Given what you've told us, there should be plenty of demand.

    1. Re:entrepreneur by Firethorn · · Score: 1

      My thought was 'Is Verizon completely absent there?'. I know it's not the fastest and it's capped; but it should work as long as you're not extensively filesharing. Set up a machine at home if you need to fileshare.

      Heck, consider getting a box at a hosting site. ;)

      --
      I don't read AC A human right
    2. Re:entrepreneur by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How does one do that?

    3. Re:entrepreneur by TheSHAD0W · · Score: 1

      A small office in a tall building, an antenna on the roof, a decent internet uplink (DS3 or better), and some electronics.

    4. Re:entrepreneur by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The guy is not very smart as the City that the University is in has two wireless broadband company's. One started 1-2 years ago and the other has been in the town for well over 6 years.

  22. Virtualization? CoLinux? by Majikk · · Score: 1

    That they disable bridging is really the killer, here. The obvious answer is to turn the 'campus facing' machine into nothing more than a gateway, and you can't do that. I'd also like to point out that this stupid program makes it harder for you to run any OS except windows. Are you sure this school is okay?

    That said, what about running linux and keeping this program inside of a vmware instance. Alternately, you could do the opposite: Accept that the stupid program will be running on your machine and see if a CoLinux tap would still work, at which point the machine is merely a host for another kernel.

    1. Re:Virtualization? CoLinux? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Even if bridging is forced off, there are always other solutions. A ssh server redirecting to a VPN. A SOCKS server. Heck, even the old wingate proxies which were the bane of IRC admins in the past for a while might be an answer. All it takes is one program that can take data from one interface and write it to another, and you are home free.

    2. Re:Virtualization? CoLinux? by Idiot+with+a+gun · · Score: 1

      If it's anything like my school, we support Linux, Mac, and Windows. Only Windows has the CSA (for now, Mac is coming in a few years), since they tend to be the most egregious breakers of DMCA law and security common sense. If we don't force them to uninstall limewire, and maintain an up to date version of windows, our network would be a disaster.

      All of this "They hate Linux!" crap is FUD. My school has an identical setup, and I run Linux exclusively on campus.

    3. Re:Virtualization? CoLinux? by xur17 · · Score: 1

      Yeah, my school does the same thing. If you are running Linux (or anything other than windows), they do not require you to download the cleanagent software. Just one more benefit to running linux, or mac. Also, they seem to only check this via useragent...

      --
      http://www.tuxguides.com
  23. Whoa what? by IICV · · Score: 5, Insightful

    From the first link:

    The contents of all storage media associated with OIT facilities may be considered property of CMU unless the contents are licensed software, licensed databases (e.g., InfoShare), intellectual property owned by others, or protected by CMU's Intellectual Property Rights Policy. The university has the right of access to the contents at any time for any legitimate purpose including moving or deleting files to preserve system security and performance, or examining files when there is a legitimate "need to know."

    "If you use our network, we own what's on your hard drives. Thanks!"

    1. Re:Whoa what? by Tacvek · · Score: 1

      "The contents of all storage media associated with OIT facilities" == "all the network disk-space we provide". So just don't use the network disk space. Use thumb drives instead.

      --
      Stylish sheet to fix many problems in Slashdot's D3: https://gist.github.com/801524
    2. Re:Whoa what? by uvsc_wolverine · · Score: 1

      Yeesh, how draconian. The university I work for uses Cisco's Clean Access product to ensure Windows users have Windows updates and an anti-virus, but we would never claim the right to unfettered access to student's computers. We can get into the files that students store on our network, but we don't really care what's in your student drive. We only ever look in there if there's a suspicion of wrongdoing or if the student asks us to (like a former student who can't get into the drive anymore and needs some file).

      --
      This space for rent...
    3. Re:Whoa what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      From the first link:

      The contents of all storage media associated with OIT facilities may be considered property of CMU unless the contents are licensed software, licensed databases (e.g., InfoShare), intellectual property owned by others, or protected by CMU's Intellectual Property Rights Policy. The university has the right of access to the contents at any time for any legitimate purpose including moving or deleting files to preserve system security and performance, or examining files when there is a legitimate "need to know."

      "If you use our network, we own what's on your hard drives. Thanks!"

      It says all storage media associated with OIT facilities. Wouldn't that then only apply to work being done on college computers?

  24. You're not as interesting as you think you are by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I'm one of the evil characters involved with running a college campus network. Let me assure you that I couldn't give a rat's ass about what files you have or what's in your email or anything about you, really. All I care about is keeping the network free enough from malware that it can still function. It's always a matter of playing the percentages - if more than about 5% of the machines on the net are infected and misbehaving, the resulting traffic makes the network become essentially unusable for everyone. Students scream. Faculty scream. Then the university president screams at me.

    So all I want is to make sure *enough* people are clean. If you're clever enough, you can get around the restrictions. But there aren't *that* many clever people, and those people usually aren't getting infected with stuff anyway, so I don't care about the outliers.

    You're not a person to me. You're a data point. Don't be an interesting one and we'll all get along just fine.

    1. Re:You're not as interesting as you think you are by hedwards · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That's a good point. I recall my senior year in college the IT department installed traffic shaping hardware on the network. Basically killing the performance of P2P apps. in order to make the network useful for more general use applications

      At that time, most of the file sharing was being done directly via file shares and often times there'd be virus infected files. From what you're saying, it's probably not that much different than when antivirus software would delete files on r/w enabled shares.

      But to be honest, the terms kind of scare me, just because you're a professional doesn't mean the nitwits running that network are, and it's a blatant violation of copyright law to declare ownership over files in that manner.

    2. Re:You're not as interesting as you think you are by gavron · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Very accurate. Should be "5 interesting". Of course /. rewards argumentative counterculture copycats and lemmings... not anyone who actually tells it like it is.

    3. Re:You're not as interesting as you think you are by JakiChan · · Score: 0, Troll

      I'm one of the evil characters involved with running a college campus network.

      And I'm sure, using your logic, you'd be happy to allow the police the search your home, at any time, without a warrant. Right? I mean if you're doing nothing wrong you have nothing to hide.

      --
      "Where quality is like a dead stinking rat - you just can't miss it."
    4. Re:You're not as interesting as you think you are by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yep. Just because you personally don't care what he has on his computer, he shouldn't worry that there might be a bad egg in the IT department who will drain his bank accounts and post child pornography on his facebook page.

      Yes sir mister IT guy, we'll let you have all of our data and trust you not to do anything bad with it, whatever you say.

    5. Re:You're not as interesting as you think you are by Idiot+with+a+gun · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      I wish I had some mod points. I'd either mod you down as stupid, or unfunny. Not sure which you fall under.

    6. Re:You're not as interesting as you think you are by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well as it happens I'm not doing anything wrong, but that's beside the point. My house isn't an impenetrable fortress, and any number of people - including the police - could probably break in and snoop around at any time. The point is that the police *don't*, because they have real jobs to do.

      Or maybe they *do* and I just don't know it! If so, what's the difference?

    7. Re:You're not as interesting as you think you are by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Or a bad egg in the maintenance department with a key to your room.

      He could plant cocaine and child porn under your bed and steal your weed. Or beat the crap out of your in your sleep.

      I'll put "being framed for kiddie porn by my school's IT department" right up there with "getting an e. coli infection because my landlord stores my toothbrush in his ass while I'm at work."

    8. Re:You're not as interesting as you think you are by Idiot+with+a+gun · · Score: 1

      I don't know why Slashdot loves paranoid trolls like you. The idea of sifting through all of the data on a public university (or even my private university) to find all that stuff seems so daunting, I don't even want to consider it. If you're so concerned that this CSA has these magical powers you're concerned about (It doesn't, I work with one everyday), then monitor what it touches. Encrypt all of your private stuff. Or run Linux. Stop being annoying here.

    9. Re:You're not as interesting as you think you are by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Running a college network is not an easy task, and I don't envy you. Let's face it, college networks are probably some of the most vulnerable to infections and rapid spreading. However, just because you don't care and you have good intentions (I mean who _wants_ to have an infected computer?) doesn't make this policy sketchy. Basically you are saying (to paraphrase your last line) if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to worry about. The reason why privacy advocates get worked up about these minor league, well-intentioned intrusions into privacy is because of the _potential_ for abuse. It is all the worse because it is a piece of software that is a black box as far as the typical student is involved.

      To make an analogy (what good /. post doesn't have one of those?), this is along the same lines as security cameras on the street corners. Sure, most of the time no one is actually watching and anyway, after awhile they are just endless anonymous faces... until the day some watcher suddenly sits up and goes "hey - I know that guy... and that is not his wife...", or someone gets bored and starts tracking the attractive young woman around town, or some self-righteous zealot starts sending the cops out after teens necking in the park.

      I'm sure making students install software that scans their computers makes the life of the network manager easier, just like warrantless searches would make police work easier. The real problem is that most students won't even ask the question posed by the original poster because they just don't know any better... If it were me, well, I swap back and forth between osx and linux, but I'd still refuse and do my best to raise awareness of why this is a problem - but maybe that's because I did my undergrad at Wesleyan way back in the day and if ever there was a place for causes...

    10. Re:You're not as interesting as you think you are by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      QOS was invented for a reason - try using it rather than requiring people to install crap on their machines they have no reason to trust.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qos

    11. Re:You're not as interesting as you think you are by betterunixthanunix · · Score: 1

      The acceptable usage policy posted above states that the university has the right to search your machine if you are accused of an academic honesty violation. Nobody is saying that you IT people will search everyone's machines; rather, the concern is that you will reserve the right to search anyone's machine at any time. If users are required to install a mystery program in order to access the network, then it is trivial to force a specific user to install a backdoor.

      --
      Palm trees and 8
    12. Re:You're not as interesting as you think you are by thatskinnyguy · · Score: 1

      The responsibility of the Network Admin is to keep the network safe from it's #1 threat: the user.

      --
      The game.
    13. Re:You're not as interesting as you think you are by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      I can't help but feel you might not have explored all of the available options. Some campuses have competent administrators and use traffic shaping and network level threat detection (with auto-shutoff).

    14. Re:You're not as interesting as you think you are by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I second this. It isn't that hard to secure a network without installing crap on a user's machine. If the user's machine becomes a problem for your network, all you have to do is disconnect it. Problem solved. If the user wants to know why they were disconnected, tell them the reason and tell them that they can be reconnected once they fix their machine. If they don't know how, offer to install this "client security software", or whatever you want to call it, to fix it for them. This can be a good solution for people who don't know how to maintain their computer, but it doesn't have to be something that is forced upon everyone who wants to use your network..

    15. Re:You're not as interesting as you think you are by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is stupid on so many levels.

    16. Re:You're not as interesting as you think you are by JakiChan · · Score: 1

      I wish I had some mod points. I'd either mod you down as stupid, or unfunny. Not sure which you fall under.

      This from a guy who has no other point to make but to insult someone. Way to add to the dialogue, stud. Glad to see your "name" is truth in advertising.

      --
      "Where quality is like a dead stinking rat - you just can't miss it."
    17. Re:You're not as interesting as you think you are by Idiot+with+a+gun · · Score: 1

      Touche. Again, the answer is to run Linux. Since this is Bradford networks, it'll do single MAC registration. Register as Linux, and it'll never check again, even if it is a dual boot windows/linux. But the tough question is, why would you use windows if it is so trivially compromised?

    18. Re:You're not as interesting as you think you are by betterunixthanunix · · Score: 1

      You are running a binary executable on your Linux machine, with no idea what it is doing. It could be installing a backdoor, a keystroke logger (xspy comes to mind), etc. You do not need to be root to run a process that listens on some random port (>1024) or to run xspy, and even many advanced users cannot create reliable SELinux policies for their personal computers that could prevent such attacks.

      The real answer is to not download and run software from a website. This gets in the way of CSAs -- so universities should stop using CSAs. There is a bit of irony in conditioning users to install software that they are told to download, as part of an effort to prevent those users from installing malware...

      --
      Palm trees and 8
    19. Re:You're not as interesting as you think you are by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yep. Just because you personally don't care what he has on his computer, he shouldn't worry that there might be a bad egg in the IT department who will drain his bank accounts and post child pornography on his facebook page.

      Yes sir mister IT guy, we'll let you have all of our data and trust you not to do anything bad with it, whatever you say.

      CCA dosen't give anyone access to any data on the machine, it only reports back on the registry scans for AV and WU. At the school I'm at, which is a public university, we don't log any data across the network, only shape it. Your "bad egg" accusation applies to pretty much IT department ever, not just schools.

    20. Re:You're not as interesting as you think you are by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thank you for demonstrating that most network admins are morons.

    21. Re:You're not as interesting as you think you are by mysidia · · Score: 1

      No, but I wouldn't expect the utility company to turn on the electricity to your house if you didn't allow the building inspectors to come and certify that the wiring is in usable condition.

      Or to keep you powered up if you removed the meter, if the box looked like you had tampered with it, or if you denied them access to your house, so they couldn't periodically come in and inspect the meter/box in your basement.

      If you start a fire with faulty wiring, it's not just your house in danger, you create a public safety hazard.

      Just like faulty computer security creates a pubic worm infection hazard.

    22. Re:You're not as interesting as you think you are by JakiChan · · Score: 1

      Just like faulty computer security creates a pubic worm infection hazard.

      So you would have no complaints if your ISP instituted a similar policy?

      And then what if they decided to extend the right to access any file on your system to 3rd parties, like the RIAA?

      --
      "Where quality is like a dead stinking rat - you just can't miss it."
    23. Re:You're not as interesting as you think you are by mysidia · · Score: 1

      Having some routable address space, I doubt that would ever happen.. And frankly, I don't run Windows.

      I'm trying to imagine how an ISP would even approach a customer about that "Ok, here's your /24, oh, by the way, you need to install this security agent on all your servers, before their traffic will pass through..."

      It's inconceivable that an ISP would institute such a policy.

      ISPs are in the business of professionally delivering internet services, and an ISP (WAN) connection is very different from a shared LAN you will find at a university.

      Requiring your customers utilize a certain app or run a certain program is not very professional or expected from an ISP, it would give your competitors an advantage.

      Your internet connection from an ISP is private and individually capped, not shared in a manner where one user's excessive bandwidth use stops everyone, and the ISP can easily shut you off, and make sure you stay shut off.

      There's practically no chance of you finding "another LAN" port to plug your PC in somewhere else "on campus". Whereas universities have this very real concern --- they don't provide ONE internet connection to each user, they provide multiple different networks the SAME users might connect to at different times of the day.

      And if they need to turn someone off to stop a disruption, that "turn off" needs to follow them if they plug their infected laptop into a classroom LAN port next...

      In any case, you can reasonably expect a much higher level service on an individual internet connection with an ISP that you pay for than you can reasonably expect from a Uni. Universities are sharing connections of fairly limited bandwidth to many users.

      An ISP might buy a lot more bandwidth than a university would buy to service the same users. Because the ISP has to provide the service the customers demand, whereas, a university can restrict users instead, e.g. block P2P apps.

      Universities may have an IT department with some expertise, but they are not ISPs. They do not have the expertise to professionally deliver individual internet services to each student in the same way an ISP can.

      The cost of doing that would be prohibitive, and they would likely have to buy much more expensive equipment than they currently use in most cases.

    24. Re:You're not as interesting as you think you are by proton · · Score: 1

      "How did y.." He clicks. "It's you isn't it? THE BASTARD OPERATOR FROM HELL!"

    25. Re:You're not as interesting as you think you are by mdmkolbe · · Score: 1

      It's not that I don't trust you. I don't trust the software to not significantly slow down my machine or expose me to more attack vectors or break and interact badly with the rest of my machine or change settings that I've tweaked. I've had all these happen before with required security software.

    26. Re:You're not as interesting as you think you are by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow, spoken like someone who's never actually had to do what he's suggesting. "Just disconnect them" is fine if they show up one at a time. Now how about when the entire student body shows up all on the same day in the fall and hundreds of infected machines are beating the network to death? On the very day when everyone needs the network at the same time to register for classes and generally live their lives. You and your IT staff of 10 can go have a great time walking from dorm to dorm for days disconnecting people while all of your cell phones are ringing off your belt with senior university management screaming "Fix the network!".

    27. Re:You're not as interesting as you think you are by JakiChan · · Score: 1

      I'm trying to imagine how an ISP would even approach a customer about that "Ok, here's your /24, oh, by the way, you need to install this security agent on all your servers, before their traffic will pass through..."

      Because really, every home DSL and Cable customer out there is doing with BGP with their provider using their own ARIN-supplied address space.

      It is not at all inconceivable that a Comcast or AT&T or Road Runner or whoever would insist that you can only use them if you install their auth package and hey guess what that package will let them know if it looks like you're illegally sharing files.

      Given home some ISPs bend over and let the RIAA cornhole them I would find this more likely from a private ISP than I would from a university.

      I mean if you want to get a T1 to your house and happen to have an IP Block + ASN lying around then great. For the rest of it it would require 2 T1s to different ISPs and only then would ARIN give you an ASN and block. And that's a bit much for most folks to handle. Most folks just call they cable company or the phone company and get a self install kit. And guess what, that kit comes with a CD and if they wanted to say it's a condition of the service that you let them scan your box for anything they want then how would you stop them? Especially if *all* of the broadband providers in your area did it?

      --
      "Where quality is like a dead stinking rat - you just can't miss it."
    28. Re:You're not as interesting as you think you are by mysidia · · Score: 1

      Ok I wouldn't expect home users to go through the expense... and I wouldn't expect ARIN, RIPE, etc, to give them an IP block. Home users should get their IPv4 and IPv6 blocks from their ISP, regardless of their number and type of connections, it's about the number of hosts they have....

      Most will go with el-cheapo DSL options where they get one dynamic IP address. The original assumption is they have one computer, and those guys are the most susceptible to the ISP requiring specialized dialer software, ala Bigpond, probably one of the more infamous ISPs to require dialer software (and for normal DSL routers to not work with).

      Special case whitelisting appliances like Xboxes and Linux machines is managable for a university, but would be a huge expense for an ISP.

      Customers demand to be able to use their broadband routers, and if an ISP were to try to create some software requirement, it would create huge support headaches for the ISP.

      I would fully expect customers to switch providers in droves, when they found they couldn't play their online games on Xbox live and such....

    29. Re:You're not as interesting as you think you are by srandby · · Score: 1

      If you were really interested in eliminating malware and such, then you would ban all machines running Windows from your network.

    30. Re:You're not as interesting as you think you are by JakiChan · · Score: 1

      Again you miss the point - the reasons the college gives for doing this are reasons that the ISPs could easily give to do the same thing. There are usually 2 broadband options in a given area - the phone company for DSL and the cable company. That's it. So if those two both require you to run some sort of software so that they can "inspect" your computer they can, right? For the same reasons this university gives.

      --
      "Where quality is like a dead stinking rat - you just can't miss it."
    31. Re:You're not as interesting as you think you are by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I do technology for schools, too, and you might think you're on top of things right now, but all you're doing is laying the groundwork for someone with authority to abuse the system.

      When the president comes and says that he needs to know what's on a student's computer as part of an investigation, will you help? Will you quit? Will you leave the tools intact when you leave, so that your replacement can easily help with the investigation?

    32. Re:You're not as interesting as you think you are by mysidia · · Score: 1

      If you have DSL service available, in most areas, there will be a number of competing ISPs who can provide you with DSL service. If you don't like the ILEC's terms, consumers can pick one of the competitors to provide the ISP service.

      If the cable company imposes undue restrictions like that, consumers can and actually will file complaints with the local franchising authority/department of consumer affairs. Ultimately resulting in the cable co. losing their franchise, and allowing more competitors in.

      There are also alternatives you haven't mentioned like satellite and ISDN services. Cellular EVDO services, e.g. Verizon, Cingular, and Sprint PCMCIA cards you plug in to a laptop for wireless internet access.

      Universities have a captive audience -- students cannot pick another network to connect to in the classroom, SPs do not have a captive audience.

      SPs would love to display advertising about how much easier their product is to use than their competitor's.... no extra software required.

      No system requirements... lets not forget the diversity of Windows users.

      Many broadband users are still using Windows '98.. others are using Vista or Windows 7.

      Making a security agent that would work on such a large range of OSes is nigh impossible.

    33. Re:You're not as interesting as you think you are by JakiChan · · Score: 1

      If you have DSL service available, in most areas, there will be a number of competing ISPs who can provide you with DSL service.

      In *some* areas. And it's always more expensive.

      Again, you still miss the point - broadband is a near monopoly and the ISP could do this if they want. They're already doing similar things by blocking certain apps. If you don't think they could try and force this on users you're just deluding yourself. The sheeple would do it wihtout question.

      Look at what happens if someone has a monopoly. The school is your ISP if you live in their dorms. They're asking for unreasonable access to your machine. I'm sure if the RIAA and such put enough pressure on your ISP they'd do the same.

      --
      "Where quality is like a dead stinking rat - you just can't miss it."
    34. Re:You're not as interesting as you think you are by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You've missed (or ignored), the point.

      There is no reason your core needs to be that vulnerable. If %5 of your users are able to degrade your network to such a level that it is not usable, you've over committed your network.

      I'm not saying this is your case but if you have 50 1Gig drops in a dorm with 2 1 Gig uplinks, it's not a security problem when your network crumbles. It's a design flaw. You can mitigate it to a point with CAR, dedicated paths, etc., but it is ultimately a flaw.

  25. VPN plus VM equals privacy! by EmperorOfCanada · · Score: 1

    VM Windows with their stupid client and use your normal OS for the rest. For completely secure internet access use a VPN service. There are VPN services that are a few dollars in a month(The Swiss are good that way). Then you can bounce your regular OS internet activity off your VM OS with the VPN client accessing the internet from outside the university. This way you have your cake and eat it too. As far as your university would be concerned you would have the most boring OS in the world in that you basically do nothing but transmit encrypted crap back and fourth to your VPN.

  26. There are others who share your concern. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ask the students who go there.

  27. Penn State - not as bad by Phantom784 · · Score: 1

    To answer your question about other colleges, I'm a student at Penn State, and our policies are not nearly as extreme (at least currently). We don't have to install any sort of client on our computer (with the exception of the Cisco VPN client to use the WiFi), and, in their official policy at least, they say don't monitor the content you send/recieve, only the amount (we have a 4 gigabyte/week bandwidth limit in the dorm rooms, but it only counts off-campus traffic). They will call you into "Judicial Affairs" if they get a letter from the (RI/MP)AA, and if they detect a virus on your computer (I dunno how they do that, and it seems to go against their claim they don't scan content you send on the network), they require you to bring it in to be reformated, or forfeit dorm room Internet access, which I believe is a privacy violation. As far as the scanner goes, I recall reading about some sort of "install this scanner to access the network" program that only worked on Windows, so if they detected you were on Mac or Linux, you wouldn't have to install it. I dunno if your school is using the same program, but if they are, using a non-Windows operating system might keep your information more secure.

    1. Re:Penn State - not as bad by japhering · · Score: 1

      they say don't monitor the content you send/recieve, only the amount (we have a 4 gigabyte/week bandwidth limit in the dorm rooms, but it only counts off-campus traffic). They will call you into "Judicial Affairs" if they get a letter from the (RI/MP)AA, and if they detect a virus on your computer (I dunno how they do that, and it seems to go against their claim they don't scan content you send on the network), they require you to bring it in to be reformated, or forfeit dorm room Internet access, which I believe is a privacy violation

      Viruses, like everything else, leave "foot" prints on the network.. this may be trying to hit a specific port on every machine on the network segment, trying to connect to an IRC server in on the former Soviet block.. lots of things a network admin can see just watching the traffic passing through the routers, and I wouldn't be surprised if there isn't software to do analytics in near real time on the traffic for just that purpose.

  28. You could always try... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Try to find the method by which you're granted access.

    If it's just by MAC address, try to spoof a whitelisted one. I believe a number of Universities allow residents to have their game-systems or other electronics granted access upon request; if you have one, or can make one up, it's an option.

    Alternatively you could attempt to spoof the communication that says you're clean, or rig up their client to simply say that you are.

  29. VMWare in NAT mode might help by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Your host OS can be running the Client Security App and you could keep your personal files inside the VM. You could also run encrypted filesystems inside the guest VM and even if the Client Security App is smart enough to scan inside the vmdk disk files, you are still cool.

    You would not be able to hide any file sharing, etc. unless you tunnel, and you might have port forwarding issues at the vmware virtual switch and some overhead in NAT mode for any surfing you do inside the VM.

    1. Re:VMWare in NAT mode might help by mysidia · · Score: 1

      Probably miss the point... if the Client Security App allows then to run arbitrary commands or deploy arbitrary files/programs, someone could one day deploy a keylogger.

      Your VM activities may form a security barrier of some sort, but it's a breachable one.

      The virtual RAM of your VM is accessible to the host through the host's RAM.

      Also, any keystrokes you send to the VM have to go through the host first, so a keylogger that has a kernel mode driver could still intercept the keystrokes, passwords, etc, before they reach the VM.

      To be safe, you need a second PC or terminal that you connect to the VM through remotely.

  30. Ask the higher ups by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In my experience, not all universities are this restrictive. Many that do have these policies do not strictly enforce them (my school required that you do a virus scan on windows machines once per semester, but live cds let you get by by having a non-windows machine at scan time). Most schools will have people at the freshman dorms helping new students get connected. See if you can get in touch with the school's IT staff through these people (they are usually students), and ask the IT staff how to connect non-windows machines to the network. With the popularity of online gaming consoles and non-windows operating systems, I'm sure there will be a procedure.
    The other advantage of talking to the IT staff is that some schools hire students to do field work, answer phones, and staff NOCs (my first real job). You never know what opportunities will open up (my school let me unofficially run boxes in the main machine room, with unrestricted access to I2 and the sprint and verizon uplinks).

  31. Your question is bad, and you should feel bad. by KiahZero · · Score: 1

    You could always use TrueCrypt or similar products to protect anything remotely sensitive from snooping while you're on their network. So long as you know when the Client Security Agent is running, simply keep those partitions dismounted while the Agent is running, and they won't be able to see your stash of boring porn.

    However, this isn't a particularly disorganized or egregious network usage policy. What language, exactly, do you think "expose[s your] web browsing habits, emails, and . . . passwords?" Also, looking at the "Client Security Agent," it appears to be nothing more than an app to turn on automatic updates, disable internet connection sharing, and check your anti-virus.

    --
    I'm a lawyer, but not yours. I wouldn't represent someone who thinks taking legal advice from Slashdot is a good idea.
    1. Re:Your question is bad, and you should feel bad. by characterZer0 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      How do you know what the app does? Do they provide source code? Can you compile it yourself and run it? If not, you do not know.

      His concern that this application may read local files, sniff network traffic, or log keystrokes is completely valid.

      What is wrong with Internet Connection Sharing? Maybe he has two computers and wants one to act as a firewall for the other. Or maybe he is developing clustered applications and wants to use his own high-speed switch behind one computer acting as a router.

      I would go to a different college.

      --
      Go green: turn off your refrigerator.
    2. Re:Your question is bad, and you should feel bad. by momfreeek · · Score: 1

      Did you really read all the source code for every app that runs on your computer? Knowing that you could do that then not doing it seems rather irresponsible if its so damn important. If you can't trust the campus IT department then you certainly can't trust a stranger.

      If I was that paranoid I'd still be soldering the connections on my home made cpu.

    3. Re:Your question is bad, and you should feel bad. by KiahZero · · Score: 1

      You can infer that the app does exactly what it says on the tin because the University, which is clearly concerned about civil liability as demonstrated by its acceptable use policy, has made representations about the extent of what it does (which means they're liable for fraud should they do anything beyond that). University in-house counsel are quite risk-averse, and it's not like they don't have end-users over the rail when it comes to agreeing to use this thing or not have network access. In short, they have every incentive to tell the truth about the nature of the program, and no real incentive to lie.

      If you're going to assume bad faith in every interaction with every other person, you're going to have quite a bit of difficulty engaging with the modern world.

      Hell, it's not like you can't trust-but-verify. Install the thing on a sandbox and watch what it does. Decompile it and look at the assembly for anything flaky.

      As for ICS, the reason for disallowing it is very simple: it opens a hole in the network. Is this really a difficult question from an IT security standpoint?

      If you're really going to refuse to enroll at any university with standard network protection protocols and agreements, you're going to be awfully limited in your efforts to obtain a post-secondary education.

      --
      I'm a lawyer, but not yours. I wouldn't represent someone who thinks taking legal advice from Slashdot is a good idea.
  32. College's Liability by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Does this expose the college to any sort of liability risk?

    They have to have an internal policy on what information they can take and use from your computer. If they go beyond that, what happens?

    How do you stop their IT from looking at your banking info or personal images?

  33. Other than the obvious by vilain · · Score: 1

    Some colleges require you to live on campus for the first year. During that time, you'll have to "suck it up" and live with the networking restrictions. Or switch to a computer and OS they don't support, like MacOS 9 or CPM or RT-11 or whatever to ensure you have the privacy you need. Or just don't use the computer (or the phone) for anything you don't want anyone to know about. If the school requires you to run an OS that they support, then you have your answer. For more ideas along this vein, read Cory Doctorow's Little Brother:

    http://www.amazon.com/Little-Brother-Cory-Doctorow/dp/0765319853

    Some colleges are really worried about the infringing material on their networks and applying some rather heavy handed response. Yours seems to focusing on prevention rather than assuming the students are adults and capable of making their own choices and dealing with the consequences. There's a fine line between "policing" and "fascism". Your college crossed it, IMO. If they require the dorm resident advisors to search your room periodically for "contraband", then I think you have to find another college or a good lawyer to fight it.

    Take physical notes with pen, paper, and notebook--it uses a different part of your brain than typing. I still can't actively listen to a lecture and type note. I have to take them by hand. A client told me about Lightscribe, a pen computer which he uses for meetings and downloads what he wrote to his computer later:

    http://www.amazon.com/Livescribe-2GB-Pulse-Smartpen-APA-00002/dp/B001AAN4PW

    1. Re:Other than the obvious by uvsc_wolverine · · Score: 1

      We've tried the whole "assuming the students are adults" tactic and it resulted in a couple dozen MPAA letters threatening lawsuits. We'll start treating the students like adults when they stop acting like children and violating the campus acceptable use policy. Until all of the students suddenly become trustworthy and stop using our network for sharing copyrighted material over bittorrent we'll keep making them install security compliance software and we'll keep that layer 7 firewall up just to make sure.

      --
      This space for rent...
  34. My experiences in Truman, MO by wasabioss · · Score: 2, Informative

    We have it here too.

    The "Clean Security Agent," if I'm not wrong, is the Cisco Clean Access Agent that comes with the Cisco NAC Appilance, which runs on Windows only, and is a pain esp. for those who are running Vista. This beast have to run under Administrator privilesges and pops up a login window everytime you connect back to the network, and doesn't even want to accept certain types of Anti-virus software (such as Avira.)

    Workaround: It doesn't run on Mac and Linux. If you use WIndows, you can convince the NAC you're using Linux and it will believe it until the appliance gets restarted. If you have Linux - great, the NAC just let you pass through. If you have Windows, Kevin, a program with a great icon, used to work but recently it didn't, but there is always an easy way to get over it: boot into Linux and fire up firefox and click on a link, and then boot back to Windows.

    And just FYI: Due to an insane number of complaints received from the students, the IT Staff over here is getting rid of the Cisco CCA this summer :-)

    1. Re:My experiences in Truman, MO by paxswill · · Score: 2, Informative

      The Cisco Clean Access Agent does run under OS X. It launches at login using launchd, and spikes CPU usage every 2 seconds for 2 seconds (2 on, 2 off) by doing a bunch of system calls. It drops about 30 minutes off of my battery, so I usually leave it off (it usually runs on the background in the menubar, but you can quit it). My school uses CCAAgent for access to the wired network, and I've heard it gives you a lease on your MAC address for 24 hours. Wireless is handled through a capture page that logs your MAC and allows you to not have to login again. while you maintain a connection the the AP. Our Wifi is unecrypted though so I route my traffic through a SSH tunnel I have back home for sensitive traffic.

  35. We are Bot.NET, Punch our Monkey! by ae1294 · · Score: 1

    FAKE VR Machine running on same NIC for their RIAA monitoring program and a VPN to your moms house.

  36. Tor Browser Bundle by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The FLOSS project, Tor has a set of programs that make it very easy to secure your browsing. It is a portable copy of Tor, Privoxy, and Firefox, working together to give you a private route to the internet.

    If you are worried about the information stored on your machine, use a live distro of Linux... Knoppix or Fedora live, and keep your private data on an encrypted USB key.

  37. Rally the professional protest set by linzeal · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Uh, this is sorta pathetic that we computer science literate folk cannot muster up the courage to tell him to confront the policy with a student protest. However, that is what I would expect from Slashdot where everything is resolved by lawsuit or clever hack. Well sometimes we need to go piss in someone's cheerios. That is what we should be telling him to do, go down to the lib arts colleges and rally up the professional protest set, get some cogent arguments laid out and make sure you notify all media within a few hundred miles because for whoever is having a slow news day you might make the cut.

    1. Re:Rally the professional protest set by Velex · · Score: 1

      Uh, this is sorta pathetic that we computer science literate folk cannot muster up the courage to tell him to confront the policy with a student protest.

      Who's going to join his protest? These computers are all too technical anyway. As long as I got my PowerPoint and can post my life to FaceBook, why do I care about all this technical stuff? Aren't you guys just concerned about a lot of nothing? What I don't know can't hurt me, after all. I'm going to be partying all week anyway. I don't have time in my busy schedule to concern myself over hypothetical threats when I've got a chick in my convertible daddy bought me.

      --
      Join the Slashcott! Stay away entirely Feb 10 thru Feb 17! Close all tabs to prevent autorefresh!
    2. Re:Rally the professional protest set by soren202 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I'm sure if you tell the right people that the IT department can see pretty much anything you have on your computer, you'll be able to get some support.

      Seriously, it's College; everyone has some skeletons in their closet.... or rather, naked pictures on their hard drives.

    3. Re:Rally the professional protest set by mysidia · · Score: 1

      A student protest may be hard to muster; after all, most students run Windows, and keeping badware out seems like a reasonable thing. It's not like requiring Windows machines be secured in this manner doesn't help you.

      This is about the collective good: preventing the weakest chains in the security link from screwing things up by not having AV software and by clicking the wrong thing, getting a DoSbot/Spambot on their PC, getting the uni blacklisted on Spamhaus, or using up all the bandwidth with distributed attacks or with P2P apps like KaZaa.

      The only reason it hurts you is because you're savvy, you follow good security practices, the app consumes system resources, and you're concerned about the trustworthiness of the application, whether it opens a manner of accessing your system and info about it that you don't authorize, and could violate your privacy or control of your PC.

      Also, the fact the app uninstalls bridging, I.E. permanently removes or renders certain capabilities of your Windows PC inactive, possibly through group policy changes or file deletion.

      Most likely the policy was a reactionary measure, e.g. to the past Blaster worm, and the poor design of their network, people knew what its effects were, and it will be hard to convince them to eliminate a logon requirement the university says makes them more secure.

      Just removing the security agent as a requirement to login could be a bad thing if their network isn't well designed; windows users who are computer novices aren't likely to install security agents and AV software unless they're compelled to.

      The perfect network for a Linux user is one where all the Windows users are well-behaved, so there's bandwidth available for them to surf.

      To that end, a clever hack is a nice solution, because it relieves YOU the savvy user of the restrictions, and yet you still benefit from the lowest common denominator of Windows users still having a Security Agent that helps reduce the possibility of all the bandwidth you SHARE with them, , being consumed by some Windows-specific problem.

      And there's not that much bandwidth available... A university may have a single DS1 or DS3 that thousands of students share, all wanting to stream their (academic) youutube videos in at the same time. So malware using a few extra megabits can be crippling for all users.

    4. Re:Rally the professional protest set by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's going to be a tough argument. Our "how dare they" attitude only exists because our computers really are personal computers to us and we know how they work and how to keep other people (good or bad) out. We're paranoid about remote access to our computers because we know what we can (and in some cases would) do with such access.

      The relationship between the network admins and less technical users is different. The users rely on external help. They're used to trusting other people with their computers. They send their broken computers for repairs without first removing the hard drive or wiping it after backing up their data. They have other people clean viruses from their system. The admins know for a fact that quite a lot of users are not in control of their computers and pose a threat to the network when they let their computers get compromised. The "client security agent" is a product aimed at this kind of admin-user relationship. The described functionality is entirely acceptable to a typical user (it enables Windows Update, removes network bridges and verifies that a virus scanner is installed and up to date). We know that this program could do something more sinister, but really, if you're running Windows, you're already trusting gigabytes of closed source software from less trustworthy sources.

      Users, especially tech-savvy users, should realize that network admins can't allow compromised systems to run wild on a campus network. They have to either prevent it or detect it and usually try to do both. Put yourself in the shoes of a network admin on a campus where a high percentage of network users can not be trusted to keep their computers secure. What would you do?

      The beauty of circumventing the client security agent is that any person capable of gaining network access without running that software is most likely capable of keeping the computer clean.

    5. Re:Rally the professional protest set by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thats not what geeks generally do. We try to solve problems with technical measures, not by wading through bureaucracy

    6. Re:Rally the professional protest set by Culture20 · · Score: 1

      go down to the lib arts colleges and rally up the professional protest set

      He might even get a couple dates out of it.

    7. Re:Rally the professional protest set by The+Mighty+Buzzard · · Score: 1

      I dunno... he is a /. reader.

      --
      Violence is like duct tape. If it doesn't solve the problem, you didn't use enough.
    8. Re:Rally the professional protest set by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      a) The vast majority of students wouldn't care enough to get a protest of more than ten people together.
      b) The university wouldn't give two hoots about a student run protest once you've paid your fees.

  38. Our policy is probably a good one by Daimanta · · Score: 1

    Every computer that needs to access the internet directly needs to have its MAC-adress registered. If something goes wrong, you can trace it back to the MAC-address account. It isn't foolproof(think MAC-spoofing) but there is little more security on our networks(mobile computers need to log in with student accounts).

    --
    Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power lost.
  39. Computer science major by tepples · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Odds are they'll simply tell him that linux is not supported under their network.

    Disallowing operating systems other than Windows might make certain parts of CMU's computer science program more difficult for students.

    1. Re:Computer science major by pyite · · Score: 1

      Is it me, or is calling Central Michigan University confusing at best, and disingenuous at worst? (And yes I notice they refer to themselves as CMU.)

      --

      "Nature doesn't care how smart you are. You can still be wrong." - Richard Feynman

    2. Re:Computer science major by Nigel+Stepp · · Score: 3, Informative

      This has come up before... When I was at CMU (cmu.edu), Central Michigan University sued for the rights to the acronym and won. That's why you will only find t-shirts, hats, etc. with "Carnegie Mellon" written on them now. We got to keep the domain name as part of the deal.

      So, it doesn't surprise me that they have CMU all over their site and whatnot, but whenever I say "CMU" people always know which school I mean :)

      --
      4096R/EF7BAFA6 79E1 DF98 D09D 898F 9A11 F6F0 DDDC 23FA EF7B AFA6
    3. Re:Computer science major by maxume · · Score: 1

      If someone gets confused by that, they certainly wouldn't get into Carnegie Mellon, and they probably wouldn't get into Central (or at least, they wouldn't be applying).

      I think part of the reason for the name is that there are also Eastern Michigan and Western Michigan (all three are public universities).

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    4. Re:Computer science major by mysidia · · Score: 2, Informative

      Not that disingenuous.

      They were created before Carnegie Mellon, also, Carnegie Mellon University did not get that name until 1965. Central Michigan University got its name in 1959.

      And central Mich called themselves CMU pretty much from the beginning. So Carnegie Mellon has no more right to the name than they have.

      Also, Carnegie Mellon, in their identity guideliness specifically say not to use "CMU". Instead they use CarnegieMellon as in WikiText or C++ CamelCase.

      In other words, Central Michigan University calls them that, Carnegie Mellon does not say they are CMU. The only thing they need to fix is their domain name...

      However, it's a 3 letter domain name, and pretty darn cool to have one. Noone wants to have to type http://carnegiemellon.edu/

    5. Re:Computer science major by Chaos+Incarnate · · Score: 1

      There's Northern Michigan as well, also public, but it might as well be in Canada. ;)

      --
      Benford's Corollary to Clarke's Law: "Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced."
    6. Re:Computer science major by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So, they *require* the virus prone OS so that the virus scanners can be run. Brilliant.

    7. Re:Computer science major by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      or you can just force them to run those parts in a VM.

    8. Re:Computer science major by ejtttje · · Score: 1

      I'm proud to point out to the peanut gallery that at the "real" CMU, people are responsible for their own computers. The University makes virus scanners available, and will kick you off the network if spyware is detected by remote scans, but it's your machine and they're not going to tell you to bend over and install some piece of spyware on it for them.

      We also have public IP addresses and no campus-wide filters or firewalls (other than opt-in spam filters and such voluntary measures). This is what you get when you have professionals running your network and not a bunch of Microsoft Certified corporate knee jerkers. Professionals like ours do their jobs to provide a service, so users can do their jobs with minimal interruption.

      Non-professionals like apparently at CMich (and a number of others I won't try to list) get in everyone's way and make the users do their jobs for them -- might as well just unplug the uplink, I'm sure that would greatly reduce malware on campus, and make their jobs easier too. Win win!

      Hugs to the Carnegie Mellon IT and net admin for not pulling this kind of crap! Too bad we have to hear stories like this to appreciate how much you all rock! :)

    9. Re:Computer science major by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      An understatement.

      This whole idea is the idiotic "MS Office workforce" assumption you see in a lot of corporations; and it kills developers. It's not just computer science students. You have a generation people that is clued in enough that it won't just be Macs, or Linux. The whole idea that they need to do this is driven by the absurd rate at Windows boxes are successfully targeted and compromised (for whatever reason).

      People go to school to learn how to think for themselves. If some dude is running FreeBSD or BeOS, then there's no point in banning him from the network because all the stupid trojan horses are written for Windows anyway.

    10. Re:Computer science major by SgtChaireBourne · · Score: 1

      Odds are they'll simply tell him that linux is not supported under their network.

      Disallowing operating systems other than Windows might make certain parts of CMU's computer science program more difficult for students.

      That may very well be one of the intended effects of the "policy". Vendor sales teams embedded in the board of regents or, more likely, in the so-called IT department would have a snowball's chance in hell of changing the curriculum to suit their whims if they even had the cheek to try. Howwever if they dress it up as a "security" problem no one will ask, but if they do they can deny influence by distrcting from the fact that the students are supposed to be able to do course work on these same computers.

      I'd agree with the earlier posts: switch schools.

      --
      Beta is broken and the link to classic doesn't work. Stop wasting our time or there won't be anybody left here.
    11. Re:Computer science major by jeisen83 · · Score: 1

      Funny enough, when I was in my CS program and living in the dorms, I got a call from the network admins asking me why I was hacking the residential network. I was taking a Network Protocols class at the time, and it was near the end of the semester. We were preparing for the final, and I kept reading the textbook past where we left off to find a section on network security. So I had a Linux server running in my room and started playing with the tools the book talked about, like portscanning my other computer to see what I could find. Well, turns out that I missed a flag or something, because instead of scanning my other desktop (inside the room network), it was scanning any machine it could find on the residential network. I didn't realize anything was wrong until I got that call. Incidentally, I still remember that conversation. It was really hard to justify with my pretty reasonable explanation. "Why are you portscanning?" "Oh, I was trying out some things in my textbook on my own machine." "What class is this for? I'm not aware of any class at this school that teaches portscanning." "No, it's not in the class, it's... it's in the book. The class is over." "So you're hacking on your own, then?" "I... was trying to see how it worked on my own computer." "No, you were using it on the whole network." "What?"

  40. Think about a different college. GVSU or others. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Grand Valley State does not implement such restrictions on its students. All that is required there is an AntiVirus client, of your choosing and a request that you install MS patches on a regular basis. They do not track web usage and have a reasonably secure network.

  41. Mikeiver by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Well you could go with one of the cell phone based WAN providers for the internet and bypass all of them. It is $60.00 a month from AT&T or Verizon. Verizon puts a 5GB cap on your total transfer though it is fast in my area. I even made an antenna and get stupid strong signal. It gives me about 2.5Mb/sec down and about 160Kb/sec up. The advantage is that you get internet just about anywhere and you don't have to go through all the schools BS.

  42. Firefox with different User-Agent String by americamatrix · · Score: 0

    If you've got Firefox installed, you actually have a few options. To change your User Agent string, type the special URL "about:config" in the browser's location bar to access the browser's properties and do a right click to add a new string property with the name "general.useragent.override" and the value "Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.7.10) Gecko/20050716 Firefox/1.0.6", or really any user agent string that lacks "windows". If you experience any problems, go back to the properties list and simply remove the new property "general.useragent.override" you just added.

  43. Solution! by DaveV1.0 · · Score: 1

    Don't use the university's network.

    Problem solved.

    --
    There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
    1. Re:Solution! by ClosedSource · · Score: 1

      Yes, that was my answer as well. If he's addicted to the Internet and has no other alternatives, he could always move his private stuff to flash drive or encrypt it. As one college IT guy posted, the school isn't really interested in him specifically anyway.

    2. Re:Solution! by phoenix321 · · Score: 1

      Or you could ask your local ACLU when all other options fail or infringe on privacy rights. Students have to have a reasonable expectation of privacy and continously scanning harddrives is almost more intrusive than unwarranted search and seizure. Just because he's living on college premises doesn't make him a slave to their Internet policy.

      Man, do I hate it when administrators of whatever service run amok with their root privileges and force everyone to bow to their will. I have seen companies disabling the right mouse button for security, using IE6 (in 2009) for security or whatever idea their crackhead of operator came up with.

      Throttle the net for p2p, block all websites containing four-letter words and more than five pink pixels in a row. But don't scan user's harddrives, that's none of your business.

    3. Re:Solution! by DaveV1.0 · · Score: 1

      Just because he's living on college premises doesn't make him a slave to their Internet policy.

      No, using the their, meaning the college's, internet servoce makes him a slave to their internet policy. If he does not want to comply with the policy under which the internet service, then he does not have to use their internet service.

      --
      There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
  44. we had that CSA thing at uni by wjh31 · · Score: 1

    yes it scanned the computer, but it was looking for programs not illegal files. It was used to make sure that each computer accessing the network had all the 'neccecery' security software installed. While understandable it was somewhat annoying when it required windows updates that didnt work very well through the restictie firewall you were put behind until you passed the security check. It was something you downloaded and ran once per term. It didnt actually require and install and wasnt needed beyond that (might be used more depending on the exact policy of your college).

    As some have pointed out, linux/mac is the answer if you really dont want it on your computer. The .exe obviously wont run outside of windows, so anyone running linux/mac was waved through security for the duration with no real checks atall. Infact a few of my friends would dual boot MS/linux and use linux to be waved through the security then revert to MS when they were through

  45. Can't tether there. by tepples · · Score: 2, Informative

    Get a cellphone plan. Ensure that your phone supports "Tethering".

    From the summary: "There are no wireless broadband providers available in the area, I already checked." Therefore, we can assume that none of the available phones support tethering.

    1. Re:Can't tether there. by Firethorn · · Score: 1

      Where is this University? I'd figure Verizon's wireless internet service should work, and given their coverage of the nation, it should be there. Maybe he was looking for a WiMax type setup?

      --
      I don't read AC A human right
    2. Re:Can't tether there. by Malenx · · Score: 1

      Living in Michigan near his college, tethering is available. It's just not cheap.

    3. Re:Can't tether there. by Hognoxious · · Score: 5, Funny

      Where is this University?

      You mean Central Michigan University? It's in Southern Beijing, as the fucking name implies.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    4. Re:Can't tether there. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes! and they have those clay statues for a mascot...

  46. CSA Work=around by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    At my school they also wanted us to use CSA. I realized (after some testing) that the computer that checks to make sure your computer is CSA-compliant is actually the DNS server (at least in my case). Solution? Use OpenDNS and you never have to worry about installing CSA.

    1. Re:CSA Work=around by WMD_88 · · Score: 1

      This is what I did for my ipod touch. I was using wifi sharing from my mac laptop to get internet to it, but it got the registration screen. Since you can't install the CSA on that, I changed the DNS to 4.2.2.1 and I never got it again. Since the agent only runs once on Macs, I just let it, and uninstalled ClamXAV (lol) after that.

  47. Have you ever read a ULA? by mediis · · Score: 1

    If you think this is bad, then you better freaking skip working in the IT field; where everything is scanned, deep packet inspections, and if you ever place a personal laptop on the network they install a secret application to monitor you.

    1. Re:Have you ever read a ULA? by myz24 · · Score: 1

      huh?

  48. Welcome to the real world by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The corporate world has had products like this for a while. It's not a conspiracy, it's to make sure your pc is up to date with patches, AV software and such. Many University have had lots of problems with pcs that get infected and become zombies. They also have a lot of geeks that are curious and knowledgeable and problably have spent some time sniffing the network they're on. Many University networks give you a semi-permanent IP address (for hardwired machines) and network speeds that are insane - it's not uncommon to have 100Mbit right to your dorm room.

    Network vendors have come up with "solutions" that are a client that sits on a machine and requires AV software to run daily, recent OS patches be applied and also take take data from the PC and encrypt is (typically using some VPN type solution). The client after checking everything has run talks to a machine that then allows your packets to be routed onto the the network. Without the clients magic message, the first upstream router/switch discards all the data you send. It's pretty effective at cutting down the amount of machines infected. It's not to spy.

    Most Universities are pretty liberal and have strict policies about those type of shenanigans. Anyone caught doing that type of stuff would quite likely get canned at most places.

  49. Most Colleges Have This Problem... by pankajmay · · Score: 1

    Most colleges (including mine) implement a similar solution - asking a user to download a program to give network access for Windows especially. And don't even get me started on that bloatware McAfee.

    Don't simply discard your college because of the network policy - choose it/discard it based on the quality of programs it offers. :-)

    You have many excellent options to choose from above. Personally with powerful computers and oodles of RAM, I choose to run a thin layer of Linux and Virtualize Windows within it. However it may not be the most desirable situation on a laptop if Windows IS your primary OS.

    However, in my opinion, whatever you decide to implement - it is important that you bring up the privacy issue with the IT department of your school. Someone needs to raise that issue emphatically. If they give you a written assurance of your privacy and later you discover that in fact it is not true, you can always sue them! ;-)

  50. Solution? by no-body · · Score: 1

    get somewhere outside (your non-college home?) a Linux box hooked up to the internet, then use putty to create a secure tunnel, proxy a browser through it and the only thing they see outside is ssh traffic.

    If that is creating a fuss, just say you were trying something out to see if it works, educating yourself, learning.....

  51. Perfectly reasonable by lukas84 · · Score: 1

    Keeping a school network secure is very, very hard.

    NAP solutions, such as Ciscos Clean Access Agent are a good way to ensure that basic security requirements on clients are met. Unfortuantely, if configured incorrectly it's rather easy to circumvent Cisco's stuff if configured wrong - which it is at most schools.

    And then there are the "experts" that don't want to deal with NAP, circumvent it the poorly configured NAP and start spreading viruses.

    Unfortunately, the only way to properly secure such a network is to use NAP in combination with 802.1x and a secure 802.1x authentication mechanism, like EAP-TLS. This can ensure security in a school network.

    Of course there are privacy concerns with NAP solutions, but i don't think the complaints are valid - if you want to use your own computer in school AND the school agrees you to give you access to their network, it should very clearly be on the terms of the school. Otherwise, you can also bring your own internet connection - many laptops have integrated UMTS as an option, and almost all carriers sell UMTS cards.

    1. Re:Perfectly reasonable by betterunixthanunix · · Score: 1

      Actually, there is a very easy answer: just ban any node that is disrupting service for another user. If your network is so vulnerable to attack that you need to worry about an individual user's laptop having a virus, then what will you do when a rogue user is actively attacking some system on campus (say, the systems that process grades)?

      Really, hassling users with this crappy software is not a solution to the problem of security. It just annoys everyone, even people who are computer illiterate.

      --
      Palm trees and 8
    2. Re:Perfectly reasonable by lukas84 · · Score: 1

      Actually, there is a very easy answer: just ban any node that is disrupting service for another user

      Doesn't work. Just imagine a network full of hundreds of student laptops, all unpatched at Windows XP SP1. When one gets infected, everyone will get to.

      Thus, the enforcement of Windows Updates and Antivirus software is very much a necessity.

    3. Re:Perfectly reasonable by betterunixthanunix · · Score: 1

      Then everyone gets banned, and when they complain, you say, "We told you to install the latest service packs and antivirus software." It will not take a long time before people start taking responsibility for themselves. For incoming freshman, that can be a part of orientation: instruction on how to get their system set up to meet university standards. This is exactly how things worked when I was an undergrad, until the computer center started with the CSA nonsense -- and once they started imposing a CSA, all it accomplished was annoying everyone.

      --
      Palm trees and 8
    4. Re:Perfectly reasonable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do most universities allow third parties to provide in dorm internet access? It seems like that would be a significant consideration.

  52. Solution! by NSN+A392-99-964-5927 · · Score: 1

    Do not use the campus network connections for anything other than study related tasks and save your work to a flash drive. If I were you, I would ask a local company, if you could do some work experience for them and use their internet connection. I do not know if this is frowned upon in the USA, but certainly here, I run an almost bulletproof network and any student that asked me to have access based on what you have said would be fine with me! You probably can get wireless, stick an omni on your roof and you will certainly increase your range by 5 miles! Also modifying wireless cards is not that hard. Netgear and Atheros cards are pretty forgiving! There will be some students that can help you out with that and maybe feel the same why that you do! I did read terms and conditions, but it was shocking enough just reading "The policies below are intended to supplement other existing university and external policies, regulations and laws" None of which they cleary define what the "other" means! I am confident enough you will find a way around this issue. Remember the best way to defeat an enemy is to be for more creative! I sincerely wish you luck!

    --
    All cows eat grass!
  53. Both CYA & BS by indytx · · Score: 2, Informative

    I am assuming that you will be living in the dorm, otherwise the CMU website gives a list of ISPs. http://www.oit.cmich.edu/it/it_isps.asp The list includes mobile broadband cards from Sprint, etc., so I'm not sure what you mean by no wireless broadband providers, though this would be a huge downgrade from the internet speed you can probably get on campus.

    The Acceptable Use Policy looks to be general CYA boilerplate B.S. which lets you know that you have some expectations of privacy, but don't hold your breath if there's a subpoena or other legal action trying to get the data. As to the CSA, this appears to be an overreaction to the perceived security risks of Windows systems. On the other hand, bandwidth is expensive, and the IT department may have decided that this is a good way to prevent the spread of viruses and bots on the campus network. All of this is probably academic as it doesn't look like it's Windows only. http://www.oit.cmich.edu/faq/faq_network_dialup.asp#get Mac or Linux should probably work.

    --
    Make love, not reality television.
  54. Use OpenDNS by daimou · · Score: 1

    My school's DNS server was the point of contact with CSA. By using OpenDNS I avoided having to install CSA or even be checked for it.

    1. Re:Use OpenDNS by Idiot+with+a+gun · · Score: 1

      Must be a different CSA. I had a laptop in the other day (I'm a tech support at another school), that had OpenDNS servers set as the default. It didn't work.

  55. fill up before you go by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Build up a decent collection before you go, and refill whenever you go get mom to do the laundry.

  56. There's a get out by Kupfernigk · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Did you notice the "intellectual property owned by others"?
    • 1. Register your one-person software company
    • 2. Assign all your non-CMU material to your company
    • 3. Encrypt everything
    • You are now protected by (a) their policy and (b) the DMCA.
    --
    From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
    1. Re:There's a get out by John+Hasler · · Score: 3, Informative

      All your steps are quite unnecessary. He is an "other" and he owns his intellecual property through operation of copyright law. In any case, I don't see that they are making any claims to anything on his machine: just to what's on theirs (not that such a blanket assignment would work under US law anyway).

      --
      Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
    2. Re:There's a get out by jimicus · · Score: 1

      All your steps are quite unnecessary. He is an "other" and he owns his intellecual property through operation of copyright law.

      Plenty of universities have various legal requirements concerning IP as a condition of your studying there.

      Mine was "you retain copyright but the university is automatically entitled to a royalty free license of anything you produce".

      YMMV.

    3. Re:There's a get out by techprophet · · Score: 1

      There's a catch: taxes.

      You can however, file a patent for the contents of your harddrive, because no one else has ever had the same configuration of 0s and 1s.

    4. Re:There's a get out by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You obviously have no idea what a patent actually is.

      You're thinking of a copyright, and that would work just fine until next time something writes to the disc. Which, unless you're using DeepFreeze, has already happened in the time you took to read this.

  57. Simple Fix by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Get an old box (p3 will suffice, and add a couple of nics), throw windows on it, and run windows internet connection sharing. Install the client on THAT windows box, and encrypt all of your connections from that box to a similar box located somewhere with clean network.

    Its basically an advanced router with vpn functionality, except you can get an old computer for free instead of shelling out big bucks for a cisco router. Best part is, it shows up to the network as a windows machine and completely legit.

    (You can also add a wireless NIC and make an ad-hoc wireless network)

    I've done this at my school and it works flawlessly.

    1. Re:Simple Fix by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      One of the things he said the client checked was to make sure connection sharing wasn't enabled.

      Try again, genius.

  58. join the computer club by snsh · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You're at college. Get involved. Stop referring to IT/IS as "them" and instead make it "us". Participate with the student computer club, or the professional IT/IS department, and then you'll have a voice in campus policies, and after you pick up some credibility, you'll get the access you need to do your own stuff.

    This is the point of being at college, after all.

    1. Re:join the computer club by Idiot+with+a+gun · · Score: 1

      Truly the best response ever. Or join ResNet. It'll give you a taste of why such policies are in place (because 90% of windows users will not update unless if you brow beat them into doing it). You'll also understand how few rogue agents it takes on a network to consume all the bandwidth and bring the entire network to its knees.

  59. University of Nebraska-Lincoln by rob1980 · · Score: 1

    The day you move in, they have you download a program that as far as I can see just checks your security status in Windows to verify that everything is green. After that you're granted access and you can throw the program away. This persists through OS reloads and moving between dorms (I did both last year) so I guess you're authenticated by your MAC address.

    Having a Windows-only policy on campus is an insanely shortsighted thing to do, given the number of students using Macbooks and the presence of UNIX-type environments in computer science departments. I'd wager if you just told them you run Linux you'd get a pass.

  60. It's no worse than being at work by petes_PoV · · Score: 1, Flamebait
    Congratulations - you're about to get a life-lesson.

    In the real world, if you want freedom to do as you please you have to pay for it yourself. In this case it might mean you have to fork out for your own 3G internet connection and pay accordingly (oh yes, and comply with the providers rules) or go and live somewhere where you can get a normal net connection from an ISP (oh yes, and comply with their rules).

    This is all good experience for when / if you graduate and get a job. Suddenly you'll find that you can't goof around on other people's networks all day - downloading whatever the hell you please and doing whatever you want, they'll expect you to DO WHAT THEY TELL YOU TO. Consider this and the restrictions your university is imposing to be one, small step down this road. if you don't like it, well you can always go and buy your own ISP and then create whatever rules or freedoms you want.

    --
    politicians are like babies' nappies: they should both be changed regularly and for the same reasons
    1. Re:It's no worse than being at work by cbeley · · Score: 1

      I don't know about you, but I pay quite a bit to live in the dorms and part of that price includes the internet access (quick note: Our dorm internet is somewhat separated from the campus wireless network...though, technically its all connected). The dorms are not my work place. I pay them, they aren't paying me. I don't understand how you can compare goofing off with a connection you paid for in your room to goofing off on your workplace's network. They are two different things. You argument is just plain stupid.

      Either way, I'm quite satisfied with our connection and its actually one of the reasons I'm staying in the dorms for now since no where else could I get such a fast connection. I personally have no complaints with my university.

    2. Re:It's no worse than being at work by neithernet · · Score: 1

      "buy your own ISP and then create whatever rules or freedoms you want"

      Up until your upstream drops you as a peer for violating their TOS.

    3. Re:It's no worse than being at work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nice bunch of Republican "free market" inspired BS you have going on here. Everyone knows the drill--expect nothing except rules, obey always, never challenge, and consider every unreasonable idiot you run into from employers to service providers is teaching you some sort of "life lesson". I feel truly sorry for people who learn "life lessons" like this.

      Here's a notion for all our free market friends. The Internet isn't private property. ISPs certainly HAVE private property, networks, etc., but even there, except (curiously) for dial-up where the ISP is not the phone company, every method of obtaining Internet access relies in some way or form on a full or partial government (read: "society") sanctioned monopoly or partial monopoly. I can't go start my own cable company and run wires everywhere if one or two already exist. I need (lots of) permission to launch a satellite. I can't put a cell tower up anywhere I please.

      The Internet exists because of both private and public investment, and the private investment is profitable because the "public" side allows it to be. Therefore, Mr. Life Lesson, it is entirely appropriate for society to tell ISPs and entities that act like them how to behave, within reason. It is also appropriate for network providers to have rules, WITHIN REASON. Private property freaks lose the "within reason" part rather easily when they're making up the rules, of course. You love the notion that an employer gets to tell you, appropriately, what you can and can't do with their computers. Somehow you miss the point when it comes to MY computer, or someone else's computer, just connected to what is in essence a public utility. That's especially relevant here, where I'll bet that Internet access is funded by a line item on a tuition bill every semester.

    4. Re:It's no worse than being at work by rob1980 · · Score: 1

      In the real world, if you want freedom to do as you please you have to pay for it yourself.

      Well he is paying to live in the dorm, so what's your point?

    5. Re:It's no worse than being at work by jimicus · · Score: 2, Insightful

      In the real world, if you want freedom to do as you please you have to pay for it yourself.

      In a manner of speaking, the OP is.

      But it's a mite different here.

      I'd say the lesson is that "nobody cares about your problem unless you can make it theirs as well". If they set up policies which you disagree with, that's your problem.

      If you can get a significant proportion of the media to investigate this and publish it, suddenly it's their problem as well.

    6. Re:It's no worse than being at work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In the real world, if you want freedom to do as you please you have to pay for it yourself.

      He is paying for it. It's called tuition.

    7. Re:It's no worse than being at work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In the real world, if you want freedom to do as you please you have to pay for it yourself...

      No offense, but college kids are in the Real World, at least as far as paying big bucks goes. I was in a large state university not too long ago, and if I remember correctly, the fees I paid for computing were far more than a decent monthly 3G and broadband at home access. University students just aren't familiar enough with the real world to know when they're getting royally screwed, though they learn pretty quick.

    8. Re:It's no worse than being at work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What a pointless, condescending post.

    9. Re:It's no worse than being at work by petes_PoV · · Score: 1

      so go live elsewhere and pay a different landlord - and get a different ISP

      --
      politicians are like babies' nappies: they should both be changed regularly and for the same reasons
    10. Re:It's no worse than being at work by DMalic · · Score: 1

      What the crap is your own sense of morality and ethics? What do you value? I'm willing to bet there's a point where you sit and fume. What spurs you to do so? In my own experience, the most legalistic sounding people I've known have the most idiotic expectations of what they should be able to get away with and have done the dumbest, most immoral crap.

    11. Re:It's no worse than being at work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You seem to be confused when it comes to what "tuition" actually purchases. It's not "freedom to do as you please", it's a diploma with your name on it – and only if you get good grades and follow their rules.

  61. OSfuscate yourself into a Dreamcast by Suertreus · · Score: 1

    Software like this invariably uses a technique called TCP stack fingerprinting to determine whether your device is of the sort that requires the software installed. Basically, invalid or strange TCP packets are sent to you upon first appearance (or at DHCP time or something), and the response to each helps the security system to decide whether you're a Windows box, a Linux box, a handheld something, or a game console, because the stack on each of these systems responds a little differently to out-of-RFC TCP junk.

    There are several pieces of software out there, most notably OSfuscate (http://www.irongeek.com/i.php?page=security/osfuscate-change-your-windows-os-tcp-ip-fingerprint-to-confuse-p0f-networkminer-ettercap-nmap-and-other-os-detection-tools) and sec_cloak (http://www.hacker-soft.net/Soft/Soft_2304.htm, but the link is quite broken), that reconfigure your Windows TCP stack via the registry to appear to these tools like something entirely different. After doing that, just tell your IT department that you need to get your other device on their network and most places will whitelist you. The most popular choice for what to emulate is a Sega Dreamcast; why that is the case is left as an excercise to the reader...

    At most places, looking like something that can't run their spyware gets you online, but some places want to see the hardware (especially for game consoles), so if you're concerned, say the machine runs Linux sometimes and show it to them running Linux (off a LiveCD if you must) if they ask. Then use software to make your Windows look like Linux too, and the exception they'll have put in for "a Linux box with MAC xx:xx:xx:xx:xx" will cover both systems.

    1. Re:OSfuscate yourself into a Dreamcast by Idiot+with+a+gun · · Score: 1

      If it's like our system, it doesn't use this at all. The moment any device shows up on the network, it gets put into a VLAN that sends it to the registration page. There the user selects the type of device (Windows, Mac, Linux, other), and goes through a registration process, after which their MAC is tied to information about OS, scan information (for windows. Mostly includes stuff like "Anti-virus version" and whether their stuff is up to date), and their user ID. Items that don't have an operating system, or smart phones, need to be manually registered via MAC address by a tech support (me).

      The only identification that's done prior to setup is looking at the MAC, which will identify the maker of the wifi/ethernet card. That's it.

  62. Or Use Two Computers by scruffy · · Score: 1

    Use one computer that passes the test as a proxy.

  63. Linux works best from experince by Suisho · · Score: 1

    At my university- basically Linux was whitelisted, and had very little problems. Also, some computers in the lab were set to boot from CD first, and DSL worked just fine.

    As for using windows, I tried to make a work-around, but it didn't really work. I was *extremely* annoyed to also HAVE to have Norton. I *think* this could have been fixed by a couple phone calls, but I didn't want to go through the hassle. Though, running a VM or another partition sounds like a great workaround I didn't try.

  64. Waaah. by Idiot+with+a+gun · · Score: 5, Informative

    Look, I'm a fan of net freedom just like you. But let's be honest here. It is the university's network, even if you are semi-footing the bill, and they get to decide network policy rules. It's mostly for prevention, if their students are constantly getting DMCA notices, the university might get into trouble. So of course they block limewire, not like it has a legitimate use anyways. If there's a massive outbreak of viruses on their network, their tech supports (people like me) have to clean up, so of course we force students to have up to date antivirus software, and up to date operating systems, its the method of prevention available.

    Simply put, their network, their rules. When you're paying, you can decide the rules you follow, and deal with the consequences if you break some other major rules (laws). If you don't like their rules, complain to them, or go elsewhere. Not like you're forced to stay. Attempting to side-step the rules (especially publicly on slashdot, you know someone in the IT department at your university reads this site) is a very bad plan. Unless if you happen to be a random genius at network security (and if you're asking us, you aren't), you will not outsmart your school's IT department. This isn't high school anymore, where renaming forbidden .exe's, or simple .bat scripts would bypass the network policies.

    1. Re:Waaah. by Fuseboy · · Score: 1

      Seems reasonable enough. And once there's a decent precedent and revenue set by the university's scanning software vendor, they can start lobbying governments. Good for the university networks, good for national ISPs, right? With most ISP customers blindly installing whatever software the ISP sends them on that disc, and with the incremental costs buried invisibly in the $29.95/mo., who's going to complain?

    2. Re:Waaah. by Idiot+with+a+gun · · Score: 1

      Considering how many users don't read the instructions on how to update Windows and rescan, everyone.

    3. Re:Waaah. by Repossessed · · Score: 1

      The university is also the landlord for many students. If he lives offsite the solution is obviously not to use their network, and to use lab systems when he has to. If he lives in the dorms he has no such option.

      --
      Liberte, Egalite, Fraternite (TM)
    4. Re:Waaah. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually given what I've read the concept of security in this instance is a joke. As someone else noted its basic CYA or a step above (ie due diligence) and doesnt take much to bypass. In other words its EXACTLY like high school. The few schools with good policies and attitudes around this arena are generally schools with a large engineering contingent (ie MT or Cal Berkeley).

      That being said its not "their network", the students are paying (often a lot) for that access. You however work in tech support, your job is to be the bottom rung (Given your attitude: asshat) who deals with stupid.

    5. Re:Waaah. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Unless if you happen to be a random genius at network security (and if you're asking us, you aren't), you will not outsmart your school's IT department.

      It's not really that hard to bypass school's IT departments... and remember false sense of security leads to bigger mistakes.

      Second, i think there's not really the point for such extra-measures in an university, they should teach and instruct that's their purpouse. If their students aren't able to understand the need of being worm-free, they aren't respecting policies, then action should be taking place (After the ofense).
      If students have to get ready to be released in "world of business" they should learn policies and that rules are to be followed.

      More important is a form of authentication so you can deny (and identify student) access to network and if some policies are broken take action or instruct them by your guidelines!

      Come on, you don't need to access users OS's to be alerted and take action (automatically) , just isolate them from network ... and yes,that doesn't require an App.

      Users will always get around, they'll search slashdot (cool), or they'll go to search their answer using their outdated buggy IE on some "dubious" website that will infect them with malware. (just because of policies)

      Users are not your enemies, careless users are (special when they decide to ignore IT)!

      [just to note, i also used to work on campus IT ]

    6. Re:Waaah. by mdmkolbe · · Score: 1

      if their students are constantly getting DMCA notices, the university might get into trouble

      The DMCA doesn't work like that. The DMCA gives the university immunity.

      Unless if you happen to be a random genius at network security (and if you're asking us, you aren't), you will not outsmart your school's IT department.

      Huh, I used to(*) outsmart the IT department on a regular basis. I guess I should thank you for the complement.

      (*) Now I don't have to, but those were fun times. Remind me to tell you about them once the statute of limitations expires ;-).

    7. Re:Waaah. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Love it. Universities are the ones creating the lawyers that cause all the DMCA BS. How about going back to TEACHING the concept of common carrier?

      I don't recall that ATT OR Western Union were ever sued because someone used their services to break the law. Not even when it was the evil NKVD or KGB or STASI OR GESTAPO ETC.

  65. That's STILL insane. by KingSkippus · · Score: 1, Insightful

    I'm not sure who provides their CSA, but ours only checks for antivirus, antivirus updates, windows updates, and common P2P programs (usually limewire).

    So? I don't care if it makes your dorm room smell like a fresh spring breeze. If I don't want it, then you have no right to demand that I have it. If you were a private company, then maybe I can understand, it's your network, you have the right to set the rules. Even if you're a private university, though, I most certainly do not understand, because again, MY tuition and fees pay for that network, and Internet access is pretty much required to complete just about any degree these days. Deny it, and you might as well tell a student that he can't have any textbooks.

    Not to mention that it sounds like you've fallen into the same trap that the RIAA/MPAA has fallen into. "Because some people use Limewire for illegal purposes, since you have it installed, you must be using it for illegal purposes." Sorry bub, but the whole "guilty until proven innocent" thing doesn't fly very well with me.

    If you have some reasonable suspicion based on tangible evidence that my machine is spewing out malware or otherwise violating policies designed to protect the university or its network, then by all means, shut off it's connection, show me what you've got, and we'll deal with it like adults. I wouldn't want my machine, if infected, to convey malware any more than you do. If you want to make such a "Client Security Agent" available for me to use, then thanks, I'll consider it.

    But again, it is my machine, and it is my money that is paying for that Internet connection. Accessing it is not a privilege that the university has graciously given to me for free, it is a paid-for service, and you'd better have a damn good reason for taking my money and then denying it to me. "You might get infected or break copyright law" is not a valid excuse.

    1. Re:That's STILL insane. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      That's the polite reason they give for shitlisting Limewire.

      The real reason tends to be that a number of the students manage to get themselves royally fucked with a wall of infections, not once, not twice, but over and over again until someone takes the computer from them, sets it up themselves, and put Limewire in a big ol' shitlist to keep them away from it again, usually.

      This is one I'm not pulling out of my ass: When colleges take up classes, usually the first two weeks of that, I get calls from students who were doing things on Limewire, and have screwed up their systems. Two weeks before finals, I get another wave of Limewire-wielding students who have infected themselves. I recognize some of the students as ones I helped. Others, I see a track history of this on by looking at their cases.
      Granted, this trend is slowing down as they start catching on, having lost papers needed for finals a few times, but it still is there.

      On an aside, I'm fairly sure most of these schools have an AUP for connecting to their network that you agreed to when you signed up. If they put it there, and you didn't like it... then why would you be there?

    2. Re:That's STILL insane. by Malenx · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You seem to be confused. You are paying the school money for the ability to attend their classes. You are paying the school for the ability to use their network.

      In no way do you have merit to dictate those terms. If you don't like it, then don't attend or try to convince them to change those terms. Either way, "Adults" should understand this is a contract, and you have very little negotiating power.

    3. Re:That's STILL insane. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      But again, it is my machine, and it is my money that is paying for that Internet connection. Accessing it is not a privilege that the university has graciously given to me for free, it is a paid-for service, and you'd better have a damn good reason for taking my money and then denying it to me. "You might get infected or break copyright law" is not a valid excuse.

      Dude, your money only pays for a very small part of the school's network. Do you think they should let you piss in the university president's office because it is your penis, and it is your money that pays for that office? These measures are designed to prevent the school from getting sued and to prevent network users from spreading viruses to other users. It is their network, and they can require you to meet some basic security requirements if you want to use the network.

    4. Re:That's STILL insane. by uvsc_wolverine · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'm not sure who provides their CSA, but ours only checks for antivirus, antivirus updates, windows updates, and common P2P programs (usually limewire).

      So? I don't care if it makes your dorm room smell like a fresh spring breeze. If I don't want it, then you have no right to demand that I have it.

      Actually...they do. Most Universities (like the one I work for) have an acceptable use policy. Agreement to the acceptable use policy is part of the school giving you permission to use THEIR network resources. You may have paid tuition, but the school's network does not belong to you. It belongs to the school, and if the school's policy says that you have to have a screensaver featuring fluffy bunnies in order to access their network then tough shit if you don't like fluffy bunnies.

      If you were a private company, then maybe I can understand, it's your network, you have the right to set the rules.

      Ok.

      Even if you're a private university, though, I most certainly do not understand, because again, MY tuition and fees pay for that network, and Internet access is pretty much required to complete just about any degree these days. Deny it, and you might as well tell a student that he can't have any textbooks.

      If you don't like it they can admit someone else.

      Not to mention that it sounds like you've fallen into the same trap that the RIAA/MPAA has fallen into. "Because some people use Limewire for illegal purposes, since you have it installed, you must be using it for illegal purposes." Sorry bub, but the whole "guilty until proven innocent" thing doesn't fly very well with me.

      I do agree with you here. At the university I'm at we don't do the "guilty until proven innocent" thing. We got a little more proactive and setup a layer 7 firewall on our network that blocks all P2P traffic. Of course there are ways around it via VPNs and proxies, but the installation of that firewall resulted in about a 60% reduction in our network resources and an overall speed increase for the entire campus (we have about 3000 employees and 25000 students).

      If you have some reasonable suspicion based on tangible evidence that my machine is spewing out malware or otherwise violating policies designed to protect the university or its network, then by all means, shut off it's connection, show me what you've got, and we'll deal with it like adults.

      We do this in addition to the Security agent scans checking for current anti-virus and Windows updates (Mac, Linux, and wi-fi based cell phones are automatically exempt).

      I wouldn't want my machine, if infected, to convey malware any more than you do. If you want to make such a "Client Security Agent" available for me to use, then thanks, I'll consider it.

      But again, it is my machine, and it is my money that is paying for that Internet connection.

      Yep, and thank you for your money. It is being used to pay for OUR network and OUR Internet connection. If YOU want to use YOUR machine on OUR wireless network (that we have graciously provided you with - we don't have to give you an Internet connection) you'd damn well better install the security agent or you can wait in line to use a computer lab where some idiot making $9.00/hour from your tuition (thank you again) can watch everything you're doing on that computer.

      Accessing it is not a privilege that the university has graciously given to me for free, it is a paid-for service, and you'd better have a damn good reason for taking my money and then denying it to me. "You might get infected or break copyright law" is not a valid excuse.

      Actually it is a privilege you've been given for free even though you paid tuition and student fees. I can only speak for the institution where I am em

      --
      This space for rent...
    5. Re:That's STILL insane. by Anubis+IV · · Score: 4, Informative

      At least at my university (about 45K students), they get around the privilege vs. requirement thing by providing ample labs that anyone can use with all of the software that is necessary for your classes. As a result, access to a network connection from your dorm room IS considered a privilege and it CAN be revoked at any time since the university is still providing you with all of the resources you need in order to complete your classes. Granted, they may not be nearly as convenient, but they're what you need.

      So, I would argue that they do, in fact, have every right to require it of you. You're using their network in a way that they don't have explicit control over, when they are providing you otherwise with the necessary resources for your classes. Sounds like a privilege to me, and if you want to use it, you need to play by their rules. Not that I personally like that idea, of course, but it's what I see as being the reality of the situation.

      Also, at least at my school, the CSA came into place very shortly after one of those major worm outbreaks in 2002 or 2003. I remember hearing that around 95% of the network traffic was being generated by the worm, and that the entire university was basically suffering the effects of a DoS attack for the better part of a month since very few of the students' PCs were protected by proper AV and anti-malware software at that time. From then on, practicality alone dictated that they forced the students to install AV software and that they routinely ensure that it's still there.

    6. Re:That's STILL insane. by misexistentialist · · Score: 1

      So, I would argue that they do, in fact, have every right to require it of you. You're using their network in a way that they don't have explicit control over, when they are providing you otherwise with the necessary resources for your classes. Sounds like a privilege to me, and if you want to use it, you need to play by their rules.

      Basically everything is considered a "privilege" now, but that still doesn't justify obeying burdensome "rules". The most efficient response to a problem is always to take the rights and freedoms away from people, but that certainly doesn't mean it's the necessary response.

    7. Re:That's STILL insane. by uvsc_wolverine · · Score: 1

      The school I work for is also a little unique because considering the size of our student body, we have no on-campus housing. The Internet connection is on-campus only. We don't have any dorms that we provide Internet to so the only time students have access to our network resources is when they're on-campus for classes and such. They're free to uninstall Clean Access when they leave, but they'll need to put it right back on when they try to use the wireless again.

      --
      This space for rent...
    8. Re:That's STILL insane. by uvsc_wolverine · · Score: 1

      The main reason for having stuff like this, though, is to keep people that are still running Service Pack 1 and an expired copy of an anti-virus from overrunning the network - it's unbelievable how many people are thoroughly unpatched. Other people with fully patched machines aren't really in danger, but the routers and switches will still try and route the traffic that some stupid piece of spyware or trojan is throwing all over the network. This results in overall network degradation for all users. We're really not trying to make your life miserable, we're trying to keep the philosophy students from flooding the network with garbage packets from their neglected spam zombies. Unfortunately it has to be an all or nothing approach. We can't be discriminatory and say "Everyone except the CS/IT majors have to run the security software" - the board of trustees would go apeshit if we did, not to mention the student response. Now, we don't just force this on the students. ALL of the employees (including the IT staff and faculty) have to authenticate through Clean Access in order to use the on-campus wireless. We don't do it for desktops at the moment but we are looking at that possibility.

      --
      This space for rent...
    9. Re:That's STILL insane. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've heard this crap more than once. The fact is that the majority of you students crying, "I pay for it, I should be able to do what I want" is pure bullshit! I would bet money that the whiners are on student loans that are subsidized by tax dollars. So unless you are paying the full load out of pocket, STFU!

      And yes, I pay for my daughter's college out of pocket. We don't do student loans.

    10. Re:That's STILL insane. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ugh, too lazy to log in. Yay for Cowardness.

      I recall that a university I used to attend used to have a little program you had to run to get full network resources--it would scan and make sure you had an antivirus, your firewall was up, and you had the latest version of Windows. That was that. (Your antivirus didn't even have to be enabled. It just had to exist.) If you didn't run it, tough cookies--you could get HTTP access but that was that. If you were a Mac/*nix box, you were good to go right off the bat. They've since abandoned the tool, although I believe they plan to bring it back (giving you gradually more access to network protocols the more compliant your box is, although HTTP is unaffected regardless.)

      In the dorms they occasionally run scans and if they detect malware, you're off. They detect your firewall is off? You're off the network. As soon as they re-enable their firewall and let Resnet know it's cool, as soon as they remove the malware (or have Resnet do it for them, for free!) and let Resnet know, it's faaaantastic. (They've also loosened up bandwidth restrictions and have instituted new shaping policies that only throttle non-HTTP traffic for a few hours if you exceed your limits.)

      I'm assuming something like this would be more agreeable to you?

      Regardless, if you're on their network, you have to adhere to their policies. Usually if you log in, you accept their policies by default. If they want to make sure you've taken all reasonable security precautions, then so be it. If they want to make sure that you aren't using Limewire (which, for many users, is essentially a virus in the making--most people who still use Limewire over other options are most likely to be infected, or so I've observed firsthand), then so be it. It's their network. (Most universities tend to have a community of Ahoy Mateys anyway, who may or may not run and police their own, erm, Ship.)

      Many, many, MANY university students are far less net-savvy than many Slashdotters would like to believe--the compsci kids are usually pretty good but my firsthand experience shows that for every two or three kids who know how to keep their computer safe from virii and nastiness, another ten have no earthly clue and encouraging them to keep their systems up to date and yeah, to ease up on the most-common-infection-vectors-of-P2P (seriously, the number of kids who don't know how to torrent or don't bother reading comments to see if a file is infected or not..), will keep their network and other resources on this network safer. Most accessible use policies on the campus internet only guarantee your ability to use the system for academic purposes--and they always have libraries and computer labs that meet their requirements.

      Like Malenx says, either play by their rules, convince them their rules are stupid, or go somewhere else.

    11. Re:That's STILL insane. by nadaou · · Score: 1

      In no way do you have merit to dictate those terms. If you don't like it, then don't attend or try to convince them to change those terms. Either way, "Adults" should understand this is a contract, and you have very little negotiating power.

      that is completely and utterly ridiculous.

      hell, if you can't even find the brass to stand up to a moronic IT policy ...

      you might as well go out and get a tshirt that says "rape is easier if you shut up and let it happen."

      --
      ~.~
      I'm a peripheral visionary.
    12. Re:That's STILL insane. by Weezul · · Score: 1

      I donno, courts will not view internet access as a privilege today. ResNet itself is a privilege, but internet is not. So it matters if DSL or Cable are options, if first year students are compelled to live in a dormitory, if the labs are convenient and modern, if they have a desktop computer or a laptop, etc. A first year student could sue over this policy in small claims court, with their chances for winning increasing according to those factors.

      Two cold hard facts are : (1) a user with a desktop computer needs internet access in their residence, and (2) they have the right to run any operating system they please. So you need some framework for exceptions.

      Universities are luckily run by academics who usually have considerably more understanding of such human issues than IT guys. :)

      --
      The Christian religion has been and still is the principal enemy of moral progress in the world. -- Bertrand Russell
    13. Re:That's STILL insane. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your computer is personal property and personal space.

      I agree that the university should be able to do whatever hell they want on their network (e.g. firewalls, filtering software, etc), however they should not be able to fuck with your computer.

      Or, to state it differently: once your data leaves your ethernet port, its on their network and they have a right to block it or to do whatever they need to do with it. However, they do not have a right to go pass the ethernet port of your PC.

      I say this because your computer is your own personal property and they have no business in there.

      Thats like if they said that if you brought a car to their campus, then they will put a GPS, microphone and a camera in your car so they can track you at all times.

      FUCK THAT. Someone should tag this as "big brother".

    14. Re:That's STILL insane. by RautenkranzMT · · Score: 1

      If they do not have explicit control of their network, they are doing it wrong.

      --
      The cow goes "tink"
    15. Re:That's STILL insane. by Anubis+IV · · Score: 1

      They do not have explicit control over the students' use of the network. Aside from mind control, I don't see how they possibly could. Clearly they control their network, but they don't control how a student will attempt to use the network any more than auto manufacturers control which roads you'll try to drive on or pencil makers control what things you write or draw.

    16. Re:That's STILL insane. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As a former CMU student, I have to agree with this statement. These measures have to be taken because the majority of college students don't have a clue when their computer is exploited.

      For the remaining minority of students that are computer literate, this is more of a valid protest, but if you don't like it, don't stay on campus. There are TONS of apartments very close to Central's campus within minutes by bike or by foot.

      However, I would avoid the larger apartment complexes (Jamestown apts and Deerfield village are part of the United Apartments group). They have their own network that you pay for service as part of your rent. You'd be better off paying for your own service (Charter or Verizon there) than using that. (Disclaimer: United Apts shut whole groups of buildings down networkwise when Blaster was released and it took almost a month for us to get reasonable Internet access).

    17. Re:That's STILL insane. by mikelieman · · Score: 1

      If you can't negotiate the terms in Good Faith, is it a Lawful contract?

      --
      Technology -- No Place For Wimps! Grateful Dead and Jerry Garcia Chatroom -- http://www.wemissjerry.org
    18. Re:That's STILL insane. by moosesocks · · Score: 1

      We're talking about the residential networks here. In that case, you are indeed paying for network access as part of your rent. I don't understand why the typical tenant/landlord regulations wouldn't apply. I'd be livid if my landlord demanded that I install spyware on my computer, and forbid me from seeking internet access elsewhere.

      --
      -- If you try to fail and succeed, which have you done? - Uli's moose
    19. Re:That's STILL insane. by Larryish · · Score: 1

      the installation of that firewall resulted in about a 60% reduction in our network resources

      Wow. That is the most inefficient firewall EVER.

    20. Re:That's STILL insane. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow, you AND your institution sound like douchebags. I work at my school's helpdesk and I'm glad I attended a school with a reasonable policy. We have a CD that you can run that will perform these actions and we encourage people to use it, but it's certainly not required nor should it be required.

      I'll give you one thing though, you guys have got the "big brothers knows best" thing down to a science. Way to stifle your students and brainwash them into never thinking for themselves.

    21. Re:That's STILL insane. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But requiring a client agent has nothing to do with meeting a security requirement. It's really about controlling users. Making all the clients the same just makes the targets easier to compromise on a large scale!

      They can use network IDS/IPS systems to meet the basic needs, and firewall off access to sites that are facilitating abuse. Lazy ass sysadmins should follow open standards.

      Vista turned out so badly that most people are still running XP with all its security problems. What if Windows 7 or 8 turns out to have even more problems? Most people have a small set of applications they use that could be met by most reasonable operating systems; presuming that they are interacting with rational organizations that FOLLOW OPEN STANDARDS they can switch.

      If it wasn't for others making switching technically impossible, people would avoid all these security (and reliability) headaches by switching platforms until they stopped having security problems. That's how free markets are supposed to work.

    22. Re:That's STILL insane. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      dude, limewire is a cesspit of malware. most schools don't give a flying fuck about piracy unless a) the r/mpaa is currently threatening lawsuits on them or b) the network(speed) goes to shit.

    23. Re:That's STILL insane. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do you think they should let you piss in the university president's office...

      They have a toilet for that. They don't have a separate network for internet banking, private emails, and anything else students might not want everyone and his dog in the IT department to see.

    24. Re:That's STILL insane. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well is it a contract? A contract involves a meeting of the minds. Or is this an EULA or a consumer use policy where company X dictates the terms and you're expected to bend over.

    25. Re:That's STILL insane. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What a pathetic excuse to justify police state mentality. Oh that's right I only have rights until the first pico second of life whereby I must turn them over to the closest government or corporate authority in order to function in life (which this situation is an example of). Wonderful. It's people like you who are demanding excess entitlement from others. How about if a business owner can't stand the thought of customers retaining their privacy, HE should close his business instead? civil rights are more important than profit.

      Anyway, stop preaching your submissive bullshit and calling it 'adult' behavior. An adult that cares about his liberty should make an issue of invasive policy. Defending your 'private property' by damaging the sovereign rights of others over their property is NOT acceptable. If the school is being 'damaged' by infected machines, then it needs to shore up its network security. Trojaning the student's machines is unacceptable for the same reasons it is unacceptable for the students to bypass the trojan.

    26. Re:That's STILL insane. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As a result, access to a network connection from your dorm room IS considered a privilege and it CAN be revoked at any time since the university is still providing you with all of the resources you need in order to complete your classes.

      Is it? Universities will also have an AUP in force for use of their lab machines too. Then they choose all the soft/mal/spy/*-ware that's installed and watching what you're doing. You may not be able to avoid Agent software.

      At my university, all academic departments are being encouraged to make greater use of the web-based 'Blackboard' services etc. to disseminate course material, assignments, and reports. Two years ago my department started requiring all essays to be submitted electronically for examination by plagarism-detecting software. This means that in order to complete my course I've had to agree to and comply with an AUP which I did not see until after I'd applied to my university and paid my tuition fees.

      How legitimate is an AUP contract agreed to by coercion in this way?

    27. Re:That's STILL insane. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But again, it is my machine, and it is my money that is paying for that Internet connection. Accessing it is not a privilege that the university has graciously given to me for free, it is a paid-for service, and you'd better have a damn good reason for taking my money and then denying it to me. "You might get infected or break copyright law" is not a valid excuse.

      Dude, your money only pays for a very small part of the school's network. Do you think they should let you piss in the university president's office because it is your penis, and it is your money that pays for that office? These measures are designed to prevent the school from getting sued and to prevent network users from spreading viruses to other users. It is their network, and they can require you to meet some basic security requirements if you want to use the network.

      Sport, You only get access to a limited part of a schools network. You do not have the option to not pay to put your penis in the presidents orifice. Colleges are businesses and are run like mining camps, they lack open competition on individual services, suckers. Hopefully, you get a bit smarter when you leave.

    28. Re:That's STILL insane. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You sound like a douchebag.

    29. Re:That's STILL insane. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I dont want to take too much time responding to your BS however internet access is no long a privilege or a luxury but a right. If I cannot complete my school work without it then its a right.

      Also as far as I am concerned students should have more say so over the schools. Schools run themselves as a business therefore I am going to treat them like any other company and demand my monies worth.

    30. Re:That's STILL insane. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      May I recommend a firewall that comes with a money-back guarantee of a 100% reduction in network traffic? Yes, it's just an empty cardboard box with 2 ethernet jacks ("in" and "out") but don't let that throw you... it's actually a highly sophisticated digital device!

    31. Re:That's STILL insane. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The auto manufacturers are the people who designed the digital logic on the network card. They have no control over where you go, because their interest is to make their product as versatile as possible. It's not their job to build roadblocks.

      The people controlling the network are the guys setting up jersey barriers and operating the toll gates, and they certainly should have some sort of control over where you drive, or they're not doing their job.

  66. common, not good by Goldsmith · · Score: 4, Interesting

    This is a popular new trend in university network "security." It will be hard to find a school which is not at least considering this.

    I have been at a university (UC Irvine) where a system like this (Cisco Clean Access) was put into effect by the housing department despite people in the computer science department and central computing services pointing out that the aging network infrastructure could not support it. When the network went down immediately after activation, they did not admit any mistake and blamed the outage on malicious users. Students who were found using or advertising workarounds (using a virtual machine, user agent spoofing) were disconnected from the network and threatened with criminal lawsuits. Good times were had by all.

    My suggestions are:
    -live off campus, no matter what school you're at (it took UCI 3 months to go from first suggesting such a system to ruining their network)
    -when you need to use the internet, get a connection through a research lab, not a student lab or general network (if research labs have to have this system, leave the school, all the good faculty have already left)

    1. Re:common, not good by Undead+Waffle · · Score: 1

      That's funny. I was going to UCI when they implemented Cisco Clean Access and I remember things a little differently.

      First of all, prior to its implementation the network would go to shit during peak hours. I knew some people who worked at resnet and though I wasn't clear on the exact story my understanding was that it was a combination of bittorrent, viruses, and people running servers from their dorm rooms. There was one particular worm that hit the network really hard (I don't recall which it was but it was a big news story at the time about 5 years ago) which would have been avoided if people had installed the latest security patches. CCA was installed mostly to force people to patch their OS and install anti-virus software (which was free from the school). Now it did annoy the hell out of me that it forced you to turn automatic updates on. They started going after bittorrent around the same time.

      Now I'm not saying CCA was wonderful, but I do understand why they used it. You have to keep in mind its primary purpose is to keep less technical people from bringing down the network. At UCI at least while I was there I didn't hear anything about them going after people using workarounds because if you knew enough to get around it chances are you wouldn't be spreading worms.

      When they first implemented CCA it wouldn't run on my machine. Double click icon and you get a nice "Illegal Operation" dialog. So I couldn't access the network. The guy who lived next door to me worked at resnet and I called them up to let them know about this problem. Eventually I found out that if you boot into linux and loaded up a web browser it would redirect to a login page. Logging in gives you access for a week or 2 (under any OS) before you have to do it again. So my solution was to always dual boot and log in under linux. When the resnet guys heard about this workaround their response was congratulations on finding a solution. The next year I found out others found another solution: after logging in for the week they would kill the CCA application. Again, I never heard any complaints from resnet about this.

      So I guess the point is if you're paranoid about them scanning your hard drive you may just be able to log in then kill the process before it gets a chance to scan. It's probably best to kill the process anyway because as I recall it took quite a bit of memory and CPU.

    2. Re:common, not good by jonwil · · Score: 1

      Living off campus is not always an option if you are at one of the colleges that have the (IMO brain dead) policy that new students must live on campus for the first few years (why do they have such stupid policies anyway?)

    3. Re:common, not good by Goldsmith · · Score: 1

      UCI had a couple of systems in place. The first was traffic monitoring and throttling. That's what NACS put in to help with the traffic problems and peer to peer programs. Resnet put in CCA to deal with security, over the objections of NACS, the resident councils, the school of computer science and the graduate student government (which I was leading at the time). It was announced to students right after finals in the spring and implemented by August 1. The head of Resnet lost his job almost right away because CCA was such a disaster (we tried to pursue some purchasing irregularities regarding CCA at UCI, but literally ran out of money for lawyers... it was a bad year overall). In the end, Resnet management was replaced with NACS personnel because of this (at least for a couple of years).

      You got the party line that most of the problems were due to students with viruses and "servers" (by which they actually meant routers and network switches). It took a year to get housing to agree that wireless routers could be allowed in campus apartments (though I'm not sure the official policies have yet changed). I'm not sure when they changed CCA settings to work with wireless routers, but at first it did not. They never gave a response as to why they thought the infrastructure in the graduate apartments could handle it; it clearly couldn't, and we had explained that to them before they purchased it. Poor infrastructure was a huge problem, but not something they would admit to in relation to network outages. We wanted them to put the ~$100k for CCA toward fixing that first. It did get fixed over the next couple of years.

      The workaround with Linux and the user agent spoofing was not originally welcomed by Resnet. That information was originally spread on campus by members of the resident councils prior to institution of CCA, who were threatened with criminal prosecution for doing so. Fortunately the faculty, NACS and Cisco stepped in to prevent escalation. Maybe the people "on the ground" at Resnet had a much better attitude than the people at the top from the beginning, I never actually dealt with them. I imagine the undergraduates working the desks at Resnet could care less what official policies were. Maybe you talked with them after NACS took over. NACS was very friendly towards Linux users all the way to the top (that is, the head of NACS uses Linux), but I distinctly remember one housing official refer to Linux as a "terrorist program."

      Once we had CCA, we wanted to make it voluntary for graduate students and postdocs. This is what is done on many campuses. There were plenty of people who actually liked it and were mad at us for fighting it at all. The undergraduate student government in particular was a big fan and did not want to see it go away, for the same reasons you gave (there were no undergraduate resident councils at the time to have an opinion, not sure if there are now).

      The biggest fight over whether housing was allowed to impose CCA on us involved certain Computer Science and Engineering grad students who were seeking to have the housing administration accounts audited. The meetings I had with faculty and housing administration on CCA ended up changing into general housing administration and rent discussions. In the end, the head of student housing was also sacked.

      Bet you never knew politics like that was going on at UCI. CCA was a very big deal, and changed the careers of quite a few administrators as well as helping to launch the career of at least one of the Comp. Sci. grad students involved (who was studying network security).

    4. Re:common, not good by danking · · Score: 1

      Where the bloody hell do they have this policy?

  67. The other half by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A lot of folks have jumped in about running the client in VMware, and that's good advice. The other half of the solution, though, is to create an off-campus proxy and run an SSL tunnel to it. That way, nobody on the campus has to see what you're doing. The trick to making this economical is to find a bunch of other students with similar concerns, one of whom lives off campus with a decent connect. Pool your resources and share the proxy.

    This is also my standard advice for working in most modern, big software companies, except for the pooling part. Their IT doesn't want to know what you surf, not really, and you don't want them to either. Make everybody happy - securely tunnel to a proxy at home. For proxies, I've only ever run squid. Set it up to only proxy from localhost, and create an SSL tunnel. putty can do this, I'm sure more substantial programs exist.

  68. I wonder if there's another approach. by JakiChan · · Score: 1

    I can't see justifying giving the university access to private machines. Especially with the attitude of most college admins I know. But I understand the overall goal, and was wondering - why can't an IDS/IPS do this? I mean you make people register their MACs, use 802.1x for DHCP, run snort or something, and if something wonky is detected you block 'em and make them contact you.

    --
    "Where quality is like a dead stinking rat - you just can't miss it."
    1. Re:I wonder if there's another approach. by Vesperi · · Score: 1

      You want university provided high speed internet - abide by their rules. If you don't - go pay for a wireless data plan.

      --
      "Linux is not our destination, it is simply the open road to tommorow"
    2. Re:I wonder if there's another approach. by JakiChan · · Score: 1

      You want university provided high speed internet - abide by their rules. If you don't - go pay for a wireless data plan.

      I want university provided internet because I'm paying through the ass for tuition (and getting very little ROI these days it seems). At least I would if I was a student (it's been a few years).

      I'm asking if a place that is supposed to be about intellectual freedom is capable of meeting their goals without trampling on the privacy of others.

      --
      "Where quality is like a dead stinking rat - you just can't miss it."
  69. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  70. yeah, but by Reality+Master+201 · · Score: 1

    You're consenting to such monitoring/searches in exchange for use of the university's computing resources. You don't have to consent, but you also don't get to use the network.

    Really, that's a terrible analogy.

    1. Re:yeah, but by betterunixthanunix · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Actually, it is an excellent analogy. In New York City, if you have a large bag and you want to ride the subways, the police department will demand to search the bag (they cannot do this for everyone, so usually they start with people who "look like" terrorists). You are within your rights to refuse the search, but then, you cannot ride the subway.

      Why should anyone have to consent to allow their computer to be searched by strangers? Just ban any node that is misbehaving, and there is nothing more than needs to be done. We do not need IT staff holding our hands, and more importantly, we specifically want IT to not hold our hands.

      --
      Palm trees and 8
    2. Re:yeah, but by JakiChan · · Score: 1

      You're consenting to such monitoring/searches in exchange for use of the university's computing resources. You don't have to consent, but you also don't get to use the network.

      Really, that's a terrible analogy.

      Except that, if it's a state school, they're using a lot of my tax money (in addition to my tuition) to provide that resource. And I'm sure that even if it's not a state school there are still public funds involved. It's not "theirs".

      --
      "Where quality is like a dead stinking rat - you just can't miss it."
    3. Re:yeah, but by DMalic · · Score: 1

      Technically, yes, but we're quickly moving toward a society where consent to monitoring and search is required for simply existing. Applicable law or constitutional protection is being slowly circumvented step by step like you'd cut a label off with a E-xacto knife. I have absolutely no idea what to do, and I'm not about to withdraw and become a hermit (Slashdot jokes aside) but it does concern me. (Does that make me a concern troll?)

  71. Use a PS3 or BeagleBoard by wowbagger · · Score: 0

    Screw them up - show up with your "computer" - a Sony PS3 with Linux on it, or a BeagleBoard running Ubuntu. Say "OK, here's my computer, install your stuff."

    I would find it interesting to hear how they deal with That Which Is Neither Windows Nor X86.

    For portable use, get something like a Nokia 810 and Bluetooth keyboard. Again, That Which Is Neither Windows Nor X86.

    1. Re:Use a PS3 or BeagleBoard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      They say....No access for you! Network Nazi's don't have to be reasonable.

    2. Re:Use a PS3 or BeagleBoard by Idiot+with+a+gun · · Score: 1

      They'll white list it like any other console, or like any Mac or Linux computer for that matter. They might smack you for being paranoid and annoying though.

  72. Router by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Bring a router. If you're lucky your school will have a system to register "Game" machines via their MAC address. In other words it white lists the address.

    Then just have the router clone your "game" machine's MAC address and you're good.

    That's how I got around my schools. Although it was Clean Access based.

  73. Don't Worry Too Much by Monkeyboy0076 · · Score: 1

    I've actually gone to CMU for the past 4 years (just graduated) and wanted to let you know that the policies on campus are not as evil as the OIT page makes them out to be. The CSA program, which is required to gain access to the university network from the residence halls (resnet) is a run-once program that only checks to make sure that you have all critical WIndows Updates and an anti-virus program installed. After the agent has run and you are successfully connected to the network, you can simply delete the file and reboot to make sure that it is no longer running. They are essentially just whit-listing your MAC address. If this is still a problem for you there are a couple of solutions. First, you can contact the OIT helpdesk and talk to them about manually registering your computer. They allow this manual registration process for game consoles and other systems that do not have a browser. I'm not sure if they would still want to inspect your computer (they don't want conficker running around the network) but if you carefully explain your concerns and situation to them I'm sure there is something that you can work out (I do recommend doing this before you move in as network registration is crazy for the first week). The second option is to not use the resnet services. I think that all academic buildings on campus have at least 802.11b wi-fi that is on a separate registration system and does not require use of CSA. You can choose to use the CMICH_GOLD network which is WPA2 encrypted and supports up to 802.11n in some buildings (Pearce is one of them) or the cmich network which is usually 802.11b and is not encrypted. Granted, you will need to leave your dorm and seek out one of the academic buildings or the library, but that's the price you'll have to pay for not wanting to run the CSA. Beyond the network registration policies, there are a couple of other things that you may want to watch out for when using the network. First, and most importantly, is the bandwidth limit they have on residential machines. The last time I was in the dorms (2 years ago) the weekly limit was 5GB of total traffic (up/down) which reset on Saturday night/Sunday morning (game consoles are not subject to this limit if properly registered). They claim they will not monitor what you do on the internet in terms of what sites you visit etc. but there is a blacklist of dangerous sites that will be blocked (you'll see a friendly octopus). As far as I know they do not throttle or filter bandwidth for things like BitTorrent, but they do comply with any requests from the RIAA/MPAA about pirated materials. Again, I've been out of the dorms for 2 years so I haven't kept completely current with changes to ResNet. I do know that computers in academic buildings (labs and personal computers over wifi) are not subject to this bandwidth cap (so do your downloading from your laptop between classes). I know this may sound like I'm a shill for CMU's OIT, but this is not the case. I am currently employed by the university but do not work for the networking group or the Office of Information Technology. I just wanted to help clear up some of the concerns you had about how to get connected when you get up to CMU. I personally don't think it is too bad, but I also do not like having some program running through my computer to get on the network even though the program no longer runs after you have been registered. If you still have concerns about the policies in place I strongly suggest calling the OIT Help Desk and working with them to find a solution. I can't imagine that you were the first person to have some problems with this. I'm pretty impressed that you checked the polices out before move in as I went over my network quota the first day of freshman year without realizing what I was doing (it was only 1GB/week back then). I've been using CMU's network for four years and have not felt that my private data is being exposed to the university. Most networking folks I've dealt with on campus are too busy trying to keep everything up and running to bother with watching your email go through the network. Just keep up your normal safe browsing habits and keep in mind the use policies and I don't think you'll have a problem with the network. Good luck.

    1. Re:Don't Worry Too Much by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      Gordon Bennet! Seems this CSA software is utter crap. Stripping out the paragraph breaks is one thing, but removing all meaningful content is going too far.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  74. CSA by ffejie · · Score: 1

    CSA is actually probably Cisco Security Agent, although a lot of schools have been calling it Client Security Agent. It's a rather innocuous program that scans for virus' and the like. Unfortunately, the realities of networks today means that there's a lot of uneducated users on it - spreading legitimate filth, like virus' and malware because they were never trained properly in how to use a computer. The school has taken a very legitimate stance here: "When you plug your computer into my network, we reserve the right to make sure you're not an idiot." Does it suck compared to your parents internet? Yeah, probably, it's going to be more restrictive. However, it's less restrictive than most corporations and you should be grateful that they're not doing ridiculous things like banning Gmail or BitTorrent, like some companies do. When they do stuff like that, it's time to organize a student rally.

    --
    Disagreeing with me does not mean you get to mod me troll.
    1. Re:CSA by Idiot+with+a+gun · · Score: 1

      I'd like to point out that sometimes other systems are called "Client Security Agents." At my university, we call it both a "Persistent Agent" and a CSA.

  75. Crypt Container by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why not use a crypt container? Alternately you could simply encrypt any files you may feel could embarrass or harm you.

  76. Or, uh, don't do anything illegal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You're seriously complaining about a university trying to protect itself? As with most conspiracy theories, you're overlooking the obvious to come up with your claims. Which of these is more likely:
    1. the university is so interested in your personal life that they dreamed up this Client Security Agent to spy on you.
    2. the university is intersted in keeping the network safe and protecting themselves from legal risks of students performing illegal activities on their network, so they create this Client Security Agent to make sure none of the compters active on the network are engaged in illegal activitiy or are vulnerable to known attacks.

    You're right. It's probably 1. Go get a mobile broadband card and surf on your own. Productivity and ease of access to actual college material on the network be damned.

  77. It's called 'Academic Freedom' and it bitchslaps. by Behrooz · · Score: 1

    The contents of all storage media associated with OIT facilities may be considered property of CMU

    Are you an OIT facility? No? Then don't worry about that. If they wanted explicit access to your machine, it'd have been phrased that way. They're talking about lab machines and servers, i.e. hardware that is owned by the university, likely in order to deal with the problems associated with "Well, that jackass is running a porn site off of his university-provided FTP space. We kinda have to delete that." or clueless people who go over their e-mail quota.

    This is academia, not the corporate world. Try looking up the academic freedom policies your university enforces-- odds are good anyone even trying to monitor your individual network use *even just over the campus network* without prior notice or an outside legal complaint is going to get shit-canned. If any of the policies seriously conflict with that ideal, take it up with the dean of students and they'll probably go beat people up for you.

    Hell, if you want confirmation of any of that, call the helpdesk and ask them. If something is particularly annoying for you and you sound like you know what you're doing and won't cause any problems, they'll probably tell you exactly how to get around it just so they can get you off their phone.

    --
    "We have to go forth and crush every world view that doesn't believe in tolerance and free speech." - David Brin
  78. Don't know how common it is... by m1ss1ontomars2k4 · · Score: 1

    But if I recall correctly, Virginia Commonwealth University does the same thing. UC Berkeley doesn't require you to install anything, but their security scanning servers do scan your computer for all kinds of vulnerabilities to exploit. Really fills up your logs if you've set things up that way.

  79. Ok by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Well, firstly, I kinda agree with the person above. You don't have a right to do thing your way on their network.

    Although, from the anarchist deep inside me:
    VPN to a home machine and out onto interwobs from there. That'll defeat any network sniffers, so long as they don't just block the tunnel. If they do, try sneaky HTTP tunnelling and things. If you have a home server, chances are you can work something out.
    R.e. the network security program thingy. Either a) Make a VM inside your real machine and put the program on that. Some sneaky network adapter setup might fool it. Or, do everything (or just the sneaky things) inside a VM, run the client on the real machine, and hope they don't figure out how to look inside a VM.

    Not ideal, but you could get some sort of wireless data dongle or something, and just avoid their network where possible.

    Either way, my money says you should chill the heck out. I'm just waiting to get flamed to hell by bearded people, but seriously, most of you geeks care far too much about security for your own good. It's possible to not get owned without ruining your life over security (And possible to get owned if you do).

  80. It's so simple by buss_error · · Score: 2, Informative

    Let me see if I have this right...

    You want us to tell you how to hack around the network/security/TOS of your university?
    How about this observation from someone that also runs a network for students:

    Comply with the policy when you use their infrastructure.

    Now, how to go about that without invading your privacy? Easy - dual boot with encrypted file systems on the second partition. Keep pablum on the system you use to access their infrastructure. Keep your other stuff on a system you don't bring up using their infrastructure. Simple. If you don't want your browsing habits known (which I don't believe for a second they give a fart about), then go to a cyber cafe or something when you want to do things you don't want known.

    Their network = their rules.

    And for those that want to pick holes in their policies/make fun of how incompentent they are:

    1. Not everytime do I tell my management team better ways to do what they want to do. Sometimes I think management is full of it. Now, if they ASK me, I have to tell them. But I don't have to open my big fat yap - and I don't, when I think they are being silly.

    2. Not every "bone headed move" is all that bone headed. You need to be in the room to see why some direction was chosen. Sometimes it's stupidity, sometimes it a comprimise between time, money, resources, and what you really need to do. The old web blocking software wasn't very good at blocking http proxies. We simply didn't have the money or time to cobble up something better. All the people that knew this thought we were incompentent because it was so easy to get around the blocking software. The new software is very good at blocking that and a lot of other tricks. Our network = our rules. You're free to visit sites we don't like - on your own time, on your own network infrastructure, using your own computer. (Not that I agree with the policy, but it IS their network funded with tax dollars and subject to state law which requires web blocking software. Grow up and deal with it, change state law, or use your own stuff to do what they don't like.)

    3. Get used to someone looking over your shoulder vis-a-vi computing. Employers are increasingly doing it, public institutions are required to do it, and others do it simply because they can. Failing to learn how to keep your stuff private is an invatation to these jerks to invade your privacy - so learn to make it difficult for them to do so. The first step in this process is to know that when you use someone else's network, computers, or infrastructure, they have a say in how that gets used. When you're on your own network, own computer, and own internet connection, THEN you can expect some privacy... if you're smart and use care.

    --
    Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.
    1. Re:It's so simple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fucking nazi.

    2. Re:It's so simple by Philip_the_physicist · · Score: 1
      Two further options:
      • Build your own external connection. If you use APR, you can get good free wireless coverage off campus as well, and you would be able to share the costs with others.
      • fake the client responses, either by hacking the client or by writing your own
    3. Re:It's so simple by buss_error · · Score: 1
      Fucking nazi.

      A Nazi would tell you you're not permitted to do something on your own network, which isn't the case here. Put this another way, you want to come into my home, and because you drop your pants and crap on your own carpet, expect me to allow you to do that in my house. Er, no, you're not allowed to do that here, and if you do, I'm going to be quite upset with you. Most people would agree that I have a right to be upset. For all that an Internet connection is an intangable, it is still chattel. Someone paid for it.

      Grown ups realize that they can't do whatever they want when and where they'd like. I'm not sure why people think that is all right on the Internet no matter who pays for it, but really, it's not. Him what pays, says.

      --
      Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.
  81. CSA bypass & Proxy. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Use CSA bypass, or hijack someone else's wifi and use https...

  82. Hint by betterunixthanunix · · Score: 1

    Hey, here's an idea you might not have thought of: ban machines that are causing problems. If that is a problem for the person whose machine gets banned, let them bring their machine to help desk, so you can give them a slap on the wrists. Why should anyone else have to deal with your nonsense?

    --
    Palm trees and 8
  83. set up the machine with the spyware as a router by lkcl · · Score: 1

    try this:

    * install two network cards (two wireless, one wired one wireless, whatever)

    * connect one of them to the university network

    * connect your personal computer(s) to the other

    * bridge the two together

    * install a VPN on a system out on the Internet (you can rent XEN Virtual Machines from e.g. bluelinux.co.uk for £15 per month)

    * install a VPN client on your personal computer

    * set up an HTTP Proxy and whatever other proxies you want in the system "out there"

    * configure your personal machine(s) to use the proxies.

    all that the university will see is some encrypted traffic.

    if they get arsey about this, tell them that you demand extra credits on a research project involving computer privacy, for ingenuity and initiative.

    if you want to wind them up, tell them that you're doing research into reactions of universities when students take initiative to enforce their right to privacy. get out a notebook whilst saying this and write down any responses made...

    1. Re:set up the machine with the spyware as a router by Idiot+with+a+gun · · Score: 1

      They won't get arsey about encrypted traffic. They don't really care, there's probably no deep-packet inspection going on (too expensive, no reason). So basically you'll be blowing about 15 pounds (say, $30) a month with no benefit, and a convoluted setup. And you could've had the same benefit with a Linux box, truecrypt, and your current level of paranoia.

  84. proxy... by MadCow42 · · Score: 1

    In your dorm room at least, a proxy server would do. Let it be scanned.

    For wireless / laptop, you could proxy through a virtual machine.

    Madcow

    --
    I used to have a sig, but I set it free and it never came back.
  85. Easier solution: by Khyber · · Score: 1

    Bill them for the usage of your resources. I did that when my fiance took my laptop to his University and they installed similar software on the machine. Easiest thousand dollars I ever made.

    --
    Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
  86. my college by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    My college just blocks simultaneous uploading and downloading or downloading from many different IP's at the same time.

    That is just insane....

  87. Gotta love Slashdot by Idiot+with+a+gun · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Look, I'm a ResCon at ResNet, granted at a different university though. We're nice people, and we'll try to accomodate you as best as possible. Want to register Linux? Sure, you won't need to install a CSA. Same for Macs, phones, consoles, printers, routers, etc. The CSA is mostly just to reduce the number of windows machines getting viruses.

    But, if you walk into my office bitching about our "draconian network policices," I'm going to get annoyed with you, but I'll kindly explain why they're in place (and how I'm not the one that made them). If you grab a PS3 and declare that "You can't install your Nazi CSA program on this!" I'm going to ask you to leave, and contact my boss. If you work with the IT people, and are nice to them, it's easy to maintain your decent level of freedom and privacy (except for piracy, sorry) while at your university. If you make every attempt to side step it, abuse the network, and generally come across as a jerk, it's a fast way to get your internet usage permanently rescinded.

    1. Re:Gotta love Slashdot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Are you kidding?

      These sorts of policies exists so the idiot IT people who should be working as janitors can claim they are "doing something".

      Most Windows AV and AS is dead easy to get through. What is hilarious is that "extrusion attacks" are very prevalent in the type of system you maintain. Since you likely never heard the term, it means that once you trust a node inside the network and that node gets infected, your network is owned. Your draconian, brain-dead policies do not stop this.

  88. Unrestricted Internet, restricted Intranet by davidwr · · Score: 1

    Cafes, schools, offices, and other mass-networks should try something like this if they have the budget:

    Let anyone get access to "the Internet" without requiring anything except proving you are an authorized user. If I want Internet-only, I get the same access to campus resources as someone connecting from off-site without a VPN would.

    If they want "on network" access to Intranet/LAN facilities, then they need to prove their machine is clean and not vulnerable to outside attack.

    For universities, this should apply equally to non-university-owned computers in residence halls, professor's offices, labs, on wireless networks, or connecting to the LAN from off-campus via VPN or *gasp* dialup.

    Of course, for university-owned computers, it's their computer so all bets are off.

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
  89. Actually the policy makes a lot of sense by Coeurderoy · · Score: 1

    Anybody using Windows has forfeited any right s/he had on privacy, data ownership or anything else on his or her PC anyway.

    He has also signed to make sure that the machine is virus prone.

    Moreover by his/her choice s/he has stated loud and clear that "convenience" trump "human rights"..
    And that they have no technical competencies...

    So it makes sence that CMU adds it's own virus to make sure that the machine stays clean, and keeps the network safe.

    If you do care about your private data you do not use Windows...
    Now if they would put non GPL code and closed source "spys" in the Andrew Linux, that would be a scandal (BTW they give you the option to use another Linux, Andrew Linux is for non technically oriented people (apparently)).

    Using Windows and complaining about privacy is akin to insist on using a Hummer and complain about polution...

    So IMHO the only issue is that they didn't provide a policy forcing windows users to wear the cilice (hairshirt), this would certainly improve network stability :-)

    1. Re:Actually the policy makes a lot of sense by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you and CMU thinks this policy helps stop viruses, "illegal" downloading or anything else, you have no technical competencies.

  90. What's the problem? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You won't find a school of any size today that doesn't have this type of network policy. When you're connected to a large network, it's the admin's job to make sure that the network functions well for everyone all the time- even if it means losing some features. No one on the network will be monitoring specific emails, web pages, or passwords- they don't have the resources to do so. They monitor overall usage patterns. If your port on their switch transferred 500Gb of data in a month and the normal user transfers 100Gb, then they may ask questions.

    I'm guessing the software the install is similar to Cisco Clean Access. While it's annoying and buggy, its only job is to detect antivirus definitions and windows updates to make sure that less informed users are up to date. Once again, the school doesn't care what you have on your computer- they are simply protecting their network from being brought down by viruses.

    Finally- you're going to college. Concentrate on getting laid instead of bypassing network security. It's much more fulfilling.

    1. Re:What's the problem? by Beltonius · · Score: 1

      I attended the other CMU, graduating just over a year ago, and I have to disagree - your network access policy seems especially draconian.

      All my registered machines had a publicly-accessible IP address, and if a machine was found in violation of policy, the MAC address was banned for a period of time.

      They did suggest installing Norton corporate AV, and supposedly windows machines lacking certain MS updates were disconnected after some period of time, but I never ran into that.

      In fact, my friends (mostly CS and ECE) and I (MechE) chose to stay on-campus all four years to maintain access to the network

      I found Verizon (provider of my parent's DSL) to be a much more restrictive ISP than CMU.

      In short, regarding the original poster: Sucks, dude.

  91. Not a big deal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I know at Stanford you don't have to run the program if you use linux. I dual boot, and just registered under linux.
    I bet it's similar software, and it's not a huge deal.
    And if they have a legit CS program (which I assume CMU does), you need linux on your computer...

  92. In violent agreement... by Lead+Butthead · · Score: 1

    Basically you are saying (to paraphrase your last line) if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to worry about. The reason why privacy advocates get worked up about these minor league, well-intentioned intrusions into privacy is because of the _potential_ for abuse.

    If people in the position of authority are so damn trustworthy, United States Constitution would not need amendments.

    --
    ELOI, ELOI, LAMA SABACHTHANI!?
  93. Probably Not Required by logicnazi · · Score: 1

    In my experience virtually every college has some AntiVirus/Security policy that they SAY is necessary to connect to the network so the people who have no clue install it but it's rarely actually required. Usually you can just download the package (or even not) and just click past all the crap about it and connect anyway.

    --

    If you liked this thought maybe you would find my blog nice too:

  94. what if you don't install it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just download it so they think you have it, but don't install it. Then check if you can connect to network without it. If you can, just ignore they new policy, they almost certainly won't notice. In no case install this software on a pc with important data on it.

  95. windows only scanners forced you to use there anti by Joe+The+Dragon · · Score: 1

    windows only scanners forced you to use there anti virus is not that way to go when you have a big number of mac uses and some Linux users as well. Also does there windows app work with windows 64? windows 7?

  96. CCA? by spikedvodka · · Score: 1

    Let me guess... the Client Security Access is probably Cisco Clean Access, or something else along the same lines.

    This is nothing special, a lot of places run CCA. If you don't like it, love off campus, or don't use the campus network.

    --
    I will not give in to the terrorists. I will not become fearful.
  97. Free Wireless Downtown by Sopor42 · · Score: 1

    Come down to Mountain Town Station downtown. Home-made beer, and free wireless!

  98. Finally, the right answer by VampireByte · · Score: 1

    I can't believe I had to read so far down to finally get the correct perspective. It's college, go there to buckle down and study and use your computer for college related activities. That means getting on board with the program, participating and following the rules to gain an education. Obtain an education, then decide what you are going to challenge in the world.

    You don't want anyone messing with your 'pyooter, then take one that's just for school and hook it up to the network.

    Honestly, the results of your high school work landed you at Central Michigan? Let's face it, you aren't some L337 d00d heading to MIT. Consider this a second chance to prove you aren't third rate and hit the books. Otherwise, you'll just be another loser with a college degree selling shoes at the mall.

    --

    Run and catch, run and catch, the lamb is caught in the blackberry patch.

  99. Pick A Different School by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you attend there, you will be explicitly endorsing their institutional policies -- by giving them your money. You are their customer, and you should not tolerate such ill treatment from them. Other educational facilities value personal freedom and integrity and can provide an equal or better learning experience.

    Choose a different school.

  100. A responsible policy-not unreasonable! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I work for a university in the UK in IT, and while we don't have this sort of policy in place, we have looked at it and will likely implement something akin in the future.

    Much of what is said here is ill informed and misguided advice based on speculation and paranoia. The simple truth is that unsecured network access is as much a risk to you as you fear the uni it department could be to you. Imagine all the other students who don't adequately secure their machines allowing their machines to brute force attack your machine 24/7 regardless of what operating system you choose? Imagine those other students compromised machines working hard together to hack YOUR student records and personal/financial information the Uni needs to hold about you.

    Would you want that? No of course not, and every other student has a reasonble expectation that your machine won't be causing mischief too.

    How does a responsible IT department allow any random machine to use the network resources without some form of validation? They can't, and so it is entirely reasonable to expect some degree of complience valdation mechanism.

    The system we looked at includes clients for Linux, Macs, PCs and even other platforms - it doesn't 'scan your hard disk' or record any personal info, it simply validates complience with policies to have systems fully patched and running suitable security software (antivirus- but based on rules which don't prescribe a particular product). We licence an industry leading AV product for all staff and students to use if they don't wish to pay for one themselves (Kaspersky currently)

    Beyond that, if you choose not to comply with good practice and allow validation of this, it is reasonable not to allow to risk the integrety of the system for everyone else-you are welcome to use a 3rd party (3G/satelite etc) as you see fit bit keep your potentially compromised kit away from the Uni network please.

    Besides-as an institution, we are bound by the the SuperJANET rules to minimise the exposure of the entire country wide academic network to risk.

    If you comply with these reasonable precautions, you can enjoy the fantastic network bandwidth available etc. Your call.

  101. You miss the point by localroger · · Score: 1
    Knowing that you could do that then not doing it seems rather irresponsible if its so damn important.

    No, it's because (1) you can compile the source to get an .exe that you can verify is the same as the one you're running, so you know it's the real source, and (2) YOU don't hav to go to the trouble of compiling and reading the source, the possibility that ANYBODY could keeps the software coder honest. Sure, open source code could still have sploits built in, but it would be much harder to hide them and much riskier than hiding them in the black box of unreadable hex that is a typical .exe.

    --
    Brackets contain world's first nanosig, highly magnified:[.]
    1. Re:You miss the point by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except that you are placing all of your trust in the compiler...

      How do you know the compiler isn't inserting malicious instructions?

      Trusting trust.

  102. Avoid the spyware with a VM by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Avoid the ""Client Security Agent" (spyware) by installing a copy of the OS in a virtual machine (VM), and have that machine act as a NAT firewall for your main operating system (Linux, BSD, MacOS, Win, whatever). The spyware runs in the VM, which has none of your stuff available to it, and everything else runs on the real host (with no spyware).

    They can still spy on your packets, but they could do that even without spyware, so no loss there.

    Cheers

  103. How about this by RockoTDF · · Score: 1

    I went to CNU (Not to be confused with any of the CMUs) which made use of CSA. I would "register" the computer in windows (which I had for gaming only) and then do everything in linux. If it still works like that, you can install linux and be ok.

    --
    There is more to science than physics!

    www.iomalfunction.blogspot.com
  104. Save money and rent an apartment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Well, more likely, save your parents money and rent an apartment and get your own internet service.

  105. Use a VM under Windows to do your real work by rjkimble · · Score: 1

    I think the best approach is to just go along with University's rules and run the software you really want to run inside a VM installed under Windows. That VM should isolate you from most of the problems you're worried about.

    --

    Guns don't kill people -- people kill people.
    But the guns seem to help a bit. (apologies to Eddie Izzard)
    1. Re:Use a VM under Windows to do your real work by Idiot+with+a+gun · · Score: 1

      As I've said time and time again. The Linux support for most universities is there, and I've never heard of a persistent agent for it. Run that. Virtualization is ugly and inefficient.

  106. Vint Cerf says monthly bandwidth caps are wrong by Danathar · · Score: 1

    Monthly caps are dumb and don't address the problem the colleges (and ISP's in general) are having. The problem is not the amount of bytes transferred per month, it's the total available bandwidth available at any point in time. The issue comes when there is more requests for bandwidth than is available.

    Users should be able to PAY for a guaranteed minimum amount of bandwidth during times when the available bandwidth is being totally used. During times when network bandwidth is unused the spare bandwidth should be equally available to everybody.

    Vint Cerf (co-author of TCP/IP) says it better than me below.....
    ---
    "Rather than a volume cap, I suggest the introduction of transmission rate caps, which would allow users to purchase access to the Internet at a given minimum data rate and be free to transfer data at at least up to that rate in any way they wish," Dr. Cerf wrote.

    Internet traffic methods that charge users fees "by the byte after a certain amount of data has been transmitted during a given period," Dr. Cerf dismisses as "volume cap" plans. "I do not find [such plans] to be a very useful practice," he added.

    Instead Dr. Cerf favors plans focused on identifying those pieces of Internet data, called packets, that don't require the fastest movement between one computer server to another, so that data needing the greatest speed can be given priority, although he stressed that this selection process should be handled at the protocol level and not by broadband providers.

    "Internet traffic should be managed with an eye towards applications and protocols," Dr. Cerf wrote. "A broadband provider should be able to prioritize packets that call for low latency (the period of time it takes for a packet to travel from Point A to Point B), but such prioritization should be applied across the board to all low latency traffic, not just particular application providers," he added.

    1. Re:Vint Cerf says monthly bandwidth caps are wrong by nick_urbanik · · Score: 1

      Monthly caps are dumb and don't address the problem the colleges (and ISP's in general) are having. The problem is not the amount of bytes transferred per month, it's the total available bandwidth available at any point in time. The issue comes when there is more requests for bandwidth than is available.

      While you have a point, this is not the only issue. Some ISPs pay massively for overseas data volume, and need to keep that to a minimum. Of course, there are many strategies towards that. Capping downloads helps there.

      I agree with you in other respects.

    2. Re:Vint Cerf says monthly bandwidth caps are wrong by Macman408 · · Score: 1

      Users should be able to PAY for a guaranteed minimum amount of bandwidth during times when the available bandwidth is being totally used. During times when network bandwidth is unused the spare bandwidth should be equally available to everybody.

      Then perhaps you'd prefer to think of their policy this way: you can pay nothing (beyond the regular cost of dorm housing), and you always have a guaranteed minimum of 56 kbps.

      My first year in the dorms (admittedly, it's been 8 years) the total off-campus bandwidth for the several thousand students was just 40 megabits. By the time these policies were started, it was significantly more (60 Mb, if not more), but still not a lot given the number of people that had to share the limited resources.

      I think one of the problems with the idea of a guaranteed minimum is the cost; bandwidth can be expensive, which is why we all get crappy DSL lines for our homes instead of a dedicated T1. And keep in mind that the vast majority of people don't really use very much - so if you're a big internet user, you're best off if everybody else pays as much as possible for their crappy DSL, and you pay a little bit more than them for slightly less-crappy DSL. If you start offering people dirt-cheap plans with a very low guaranteed minimum bandwidth, then you're going to have to be willing to pay a lot more to get a guarantee that seems palatable to you. Very few people are actually willing to pay what it would cost to have very good service.

    3. Re:Vint Cerf says monthly bandwidth caps are wrong by dbIII · · Score: 1

      It's wrong but it's very easy to measure and thus charge for. In Australia there are plans capped at 500MB - with 55 cents per megabyte charged if you go over that (Telstra is evil). When the monopoly charges that way all of those that feed off the network don't have a lot of choice other than to have bandwidth caps and either throttle or charge extra. A new undersea cable which will be finished soon (and is not owned by Telstra) may change that.

  107. Coincidentally... by damn_registrars · · Score: 1

    If you want to run windows, but the software they want you to install bothers you, you could try running cygwin (with sshd) on your box. When I was at a school that regularly did campus-wide scans, I had a win2k box running cygwin and at least one of their scans saw it as a "unix" box, rather than a windows box.

    If their scans tell them that you are running unix, and you tell them you are running unix, they will probably believe you.

    Of course another option would be to just not use your own computer on their network. You could have it in your dorm and not on the network; using only their systems when you need network/internet access. Obviously that approach has costs, too, but you wouldn't have to worry about the fate of your own machine.

    --
    Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
  108. 2 computer solution... the better one by tanveer1979 · · Score: 4, Informative

    Get a dirt cheap obsolete laptop. This will connect you to the college network. Install their application on it.
    Then just enable internet connection sharing, and connect your good laptop. Simple!

    If they are into packet sniffing, just use ssh tunnel for the traffic

    --
    My Aurora : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o91ZsGwJYyg
    FB : https://www.facebook.com/TanveersPhotography
  109. Safe*Connect is another such program. by Neo+Quietus · · Score: 1

    My University uses Safe*Connect to make sure we're up to date and a few other things, I guess.

    The reason I say "I guess" is because as soon as I heard that they would be requiring it to get onto the network I searched the web for a workaround, which was easy: just change your browser's user agent string to say that you are running Linux. They have to let systems that they don't have a client program for on the network, because otherwise they'd piss off every X-BOX 360 and PS3 user out there.

  110. Wait, I made a mistake by tanveer1979 · · Score: 1

    Remove network bridging... umm thats to prevent you from running a VM from inside your comp....?

    --
    My Aurora : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o91ZsGwJYyg
    FB : https://www.facebook.com/TanveersPhotography
  111. Half the problem solved? by IgnitusBoyone · · Score: 1

    So that protects the drive sniffing, but how do you get around the packet sniffing now that your proxying through the virtual nick which is bugged by the security Agent?

    --
    Momento Mori
    1. Re:Half the problem solved? by jonbryce · · Score: 1

      They can packet sniff at their end of the line anyway.

  112. Get a real college by FrankieBaby1986 · · Score: 1

    Wow. I thought college was supposed to be a bastion of learning, opportunity, and freedom. Sound like that college sucks. I hate to say it, but if their internet policy is so retarded, you can bet it's not the only shortcoming at the campus. Go to a school that treats you like an adult.

    --
    ERROR: SIG NOT FOUND (A)bort, (R)etry, (F)ail?:
  113. Canadian University by SubjectiveObjection · · Score: 1

    I go to a Canadian university. You Americans are really having it tough. In here, you don't need to install anything, the university has no right to snoop on your data. All you need to use the wireless network is your student ID and password. Proud to be Canadian!

  114. From a network admin at a major state U by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We do this as well and probably run the same NAC. We tell students up front that we don't require this from Mac or Linux users, so savvy students run Linux and then do Windows-only work in a VM if they simply can't allow the network admins to scan for things. By the way, we only scan for 1 thing: virus definitions. If your virus def's aren't up to date, we send you to a remediation VLAN where you can update them and get back in the game. Trust me when I say that the network admins most likely have absolutely no interest in anything you might be storing on your hard drive beyond virus def's.

    Students are also free to purchase cable internet from the local cable ISP if that's what they want, and a few do.

  115. solution by fishbowl · · Score: 1

    Don't live on campus. Don't use any on-campus facilities that force you into a category of an on-campus resident. Get yourself into a position where you're using facilities that are provided to staff, faculty, and/or grad students. People who *have* a choice often have a strong opinion on these matters, and the policies tend to be more liberal for them.

    All this might mean "get a job", and it might even mean "get an on-campus job in a professional staff" (as opposed to student labor roles.)

    Another approach is the time-tested "work in the NOC" and then no matter how bad the network infrastructure or policies are, you're above/outside them, since YOU are the sysadmin.

    I did all of the above during my various college careers.

    --
    -fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
  116. That is crazy by nsqaured · · Score: 1

    I had no idea that college networks would even try to enforce such a thing. I attend Ohio University. We do not have any silly requirements to use our network, we just have to agree to a network usage policy. In such a policy we must agree to not share copyrighted material on the network. Students who have violated this policy have had stiff fines imposed on them, sometimes a court case, and even disciplinary action by the school. Personally, I think this is a great policy. I know it should not be a basis for choosing a school, but I would not go to a school with a crazy rule like that. The money the school spends on software and technical support for a program like that would be much better off spent on professors/researchers/administrators of computer networks that could pass their knowledge onto students.

  117. Yeah, like maybe the other CMU by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Anyone know Carnegie Mellon University's IT policy?

    1. Re:Yeah, like maybe the other CMU by Kuxman · · Score: 1

      I just recently graduated from the electrical and computer engineering program at Carnegie Mellon. The IT policy was pretty solid, open to all platforms, no headaches. Data integrity and personal privacy are held very highly. Student data stored on CMU servers may not be access unless there's an emergency, or if there's a valid warrant.

      Getting caught by the RIAA/MPAA/BSA with copyright violation gets you 45 days loss of connectivity on that MAC address, but there's a solid intra-CMU file sharing network.

      Plenty of bandwidth available to students (average 1-3MB/sec up and down -- yes, megabyte). Limited to rolling average of 2GB up/down a day over 5 days for wired connections. 750MB for wireless.

      More general information can be found here: http://www.cmu.edu/policies/documents/Computing.htm

      --
      http://www.asti-usa.com
    2. Re:Yeah, like maybe the other CMU by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Pretty much all first-rate universities in the world have a similar policy. Strong privacy concerns, no need to install anything to get network access, fast connections both up and down and a good DC++ intranet.

  118. Inadequate disclosure by Animats · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The real problem with this is that the University is asking the student to download and run software without properly identifying what it does. That's called "badware" by StopBadware, run by the Harvard Law School, Consumers Union, etc. Phrases like "exceeds authorized access" apply. And remember, this is a state school; they face the legal constraints on state actors. For example, the rule that "Most political advocacy is unacceptable" is a blatant First Amendment violation as applied to students. Report that to EULA Watch and the ACLU. The ACLU is already dealing with some other suppression of free speech by the CMU administration, so this probably won't surprise them.

    It's not even clear whose Client Security Agent they're talking about. There's one from Cisco, one from Bradford, and one from Microsoft. The description mentions that it turns on Microsoft's automated updating. That means all the latest Microsoft security holes (like the one that makes Firefox execute Microsoft .NET content) are opened up.

    Someone compared this to working for a company. It's not. As a student, you're the customer, not an employee. Also, in a corporate setting, if Central IT messes up your desktop machine, Central IT has to fix your desktop machine.

    1. Re:Inadequate disclosure by Deathlizard · · Score: 2, Insightful

      from the URL, It looks like Bradford Campus Manager.

      It's what we use for remediation at the college where I work, and that URL, Particulary the Remediation part, is the same area that Bradford puts their CSA.

      I can only say how we use the system, so I can't vouch for cmich or other school networks, but we pretty much use BCM for these purposes.

      1) Check for patches on a system.
      2) Check for the university supplied Virus scanner and how up to date it is.
      3) Send messages to users. Specificially as part of our emergency alert strategy in case of severe weather or Schoolwide Crisis.
      4) Locate PC's (Or anything with a MAC address for that matter) if they are lost or stolen and are still being used on our network.
      5) Block Rogue DHCP servers, like someone mistakengly plugging in their home router on their LAN side (instead of WAN), or running Internet connection sharing, or a virus that is DHCP Spoofing.

      As far as I know, it doesn't do any kind of traffic or system spying of any sort. Its basicially designed to keep non university users (or users with a problem, such as outdated AV) from getting into the network and doing damage by subnetting anything thats not registered at the switch end. The only thing a non-registered user can do is see the remediation page and login, and if they can't login their SOL.

      As for the Net itself, although we use a QOS system to control bandwidth usage, we don't track anything other than what traffic is using how much bandwidth and throttle based on demand vs performance. IE if Bittorrent is sucking 80% of our bandwith, we throttle Bittorrent so that other services, (WEB, Email, XBOX, ETC) can get more traffic. My guess is that most schools follow the same principal.

  119. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 4, Informative

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  120. Fake your UserAgent by digitalgimpus · · Score: 1

    I got around this by faking the UserAgent... the client is generally for Windows laptops. Linux and Mac OS X were exempt. While a Mac guy, I had a Windows Laptop... so fake the useragent, and bypass the stupid app. It registered my MAC address, and I was good for the semester. Simple as can be. You can call tech support and ask how to get a BeOS computer on the network. See what they tell you.

  121. use a school only PC by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    use a laptop just for your school stuff, never put anything personal on it. if you need a personal computer, get a new netbook with a 3G cell card in it.

  122. Another solution that hasn't been suggested yet by nathana · · Score: 3, Informative

    Okay, so it's not ideal, but here's what you can do that doesn't require running a virtual machine on your primary PC, or a dual-boot-into-Windows to run the scanner/authenticator software every once in a while scenario:

    Get yourself a cheap-ass PC. Throw two ethernet NICs in it. Install a new copy of Windows XP, and any software that your campus IT staff require to be installed on there. Then run Windows XP Internet Connection Sharing (ICS) on the unused ethernet adapter. (ICS is a small DHCP server + NAT engine built into Windows.) Plug that into a switch along with your main computer or computers, and use the XP box running ICS as your router.

    Then from the university's perspective, you have a single Windows XP box hooked up which is clean and conforms to their standards for network access. Unless the software that you need to install prohibits ICS from functioning, and there is no way around the artificial restriction, they won't know about the PC or PCs you have running behind the ICS machine.

    1. Re:Another solution that hasn't been suggested yet by jonwil · · Score: 2, Informative

      Except that the link in TFA for the CSA clearly says "Remove Network Bridging" which would include Internet Connection Sharing.

  123. Build a router by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just get an old P-II or P-III. Install whatever software is required to get on the network. Have two NIC's-- one faces the campus network, the other faces your local network. Run NAT. As far as the school is concerned, you've got a normal, rules complying, Windows box on the network. You're free to do whatever you want on your side.

  124. VM, as others have suggested by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    My university requires you to log on via a Cisco VPN client as the only way to access your university account from off campus. Students are expected to install this thing on their private computers, but aren't told that when connected, *all* of your traffic is routed over that VPN.

    I didn't trust the VPN initially so I've always run the thing in a Windows 2000 virtual machine, but when I noticed the way they had their routing set up I sent them an e-mail saying, "This is my personal computer; are you *sure* you want to be handling all my traffic? Including the porn? OK then..."

  125. That sucks... by bemymonkey · · Score: 2, Informative

    It's pretty different over here in Germany. We don't have a campus, but the local technical university (RWTH Aachen) provides internet access to most of the student appartment complexes (there's quite a few of 'em) and WiFi access points all over the city (basically if you're downtown, you can get a signal at least 50% of the time). Quite a few ports are blocked (pretty much everything non-standard), but you don't have to install any software and it's hella fast (IIRC the university has its own connection right into a backbone - or something like that - I just remember making a hell of a :o face when I realized my download speeds from Rapidshare were being capped by the 100mbit ethernet connection...).

    Now, there's a _lot_ of students on that network. Everyone working or studying at the university has access. All you need to do is connect to the WiFi network (authentication via certificate and PEAP) via any old wireless client (hell, even my WM6.1 phone works)... I'd estimate that the whole network has 10k+ users - now how do they manage to do all this without using client scanning software? I'm sure there's a lot of malware-infected systems on the network, but the network seems to be secure enough to handle it. Maybe it's just a question of competent IT staff?

    I'm not exactly up-to-date on the technical side of securing a network, but as far as I can tell, it's possible without the massive intrusion upon users' privacy that's described in the summary...

  126. Those clients are worthless by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    My university started requiring people to have these things installed to allow a connection too.

    The servers in my local IT department could no longer connect. The robots we had for our senior engineering projects could no longer connect (we had to buy/install our own wireless routers because of it). And, since many of the student's who HAD the client installed could still not connect (although they could previously), we in local IT decided to call central IT about it roughly every 5 minutes or so and tell them that, yes we had yet another student who could not connect with their stupid client.

    The policy lasted about 3 days. One year later, we still get people walking up and saying they lost their connection, and we find that the now un-required client is still installed on their machines and intermittently breaking their connection.

  127. Verizon has coverage at Central Michigan by chriswaco · · Score: 1

    Buy a Verizon 3G wireless USB dongle. It'll cost you $60/month, but they appear to have coverage in Mt. Pleasant.

  128. Linux? by t2000kw · · Score: 1

    Some here suggested using Linux, which is a good idea if the college permits it. If they don't permit it, what about installing Wine or Crossover Office and set up a few Windows programs using that, including their snooper tool? Then you could surf from within Linux. I would think that their snooper tool would get caught in the synthetic Windows system created by the Wine installation and never see beyond there. Or, as others have suggested, you can run virtual machine software to run Windows in Linux, or vice-versa. Ubuntu even installs into Windows, but I never tried doing it that way. Or run XP in Vista with a virtual machine. That should allow you to hide at least part of your system from the spy software. Another thought crossed my mind also. Why not use your connected PC as a gateway to the Internet and connect to it from another PC that doesn't permit file sharing? You could use an older Windows system to do the connecting and set up a second Ethernet card in it and connect through the gateway PC to the college network. I don't know if their software would allow for that or not. Perhaps you can use a router as long as one PC has the software on it? You do have options, and you can probably beat the system with some of the suggestions here. If you ask too many questions, though, of the IT people there, you may cause some trouble for yourself.

  129. The low tech way of getting around campus networks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I used to work for a University's IT dept in SC. We had one student who valued his privacy and did not like the fact that by being on our network we would scan his machine. We didn't think he was up to anything, he just was one of those privacy nuts. So he found a simple way around it. The dorms do not get free cable. If you want cable you have to talk to the local cable company. He just subscribed to their cable internet service, and bypassed our network completely. If he needed access to any resources, he would use the student remote portal. It ended up costing him next to nothing, because the company provided internet to students at a massive discount if they subbed to the higher cable plan, which most students do anyway.

  130. It's the professors who can make the difference by SuperCharlie · · Score: 1

    I worked at a University in the support division, not networking. The key to making anything happen is to get the professors ticked enough to make waves. Find a nice high profile professor and make him understand what that little "Security Agent" means, such as, nothing on that computer will be private, and you may have a chance of killing it. The tech support at a University could not care less about you, you are gone in 2-6 years. They will be there forever.

  131. Get a Cable Modem by theJML · · Score: 1

    It sounds funny, but I had a few friends that did this on our campus. The LAN wasn't quite as draconian as what you describe, but it did have limits/blocks on certian P2P, A really weird and sometimes non-functional routing setup, and bandwidth caps (whether inter- or intra-net). We were already signed up for Cable TV with the local cable company (the campus was fully wired for cable, but it was run by one of the local cable providers. Sort of a monopoly as in the dorms you could ONLY get their cable, but it wasn't bad and split up 4 ways was fine.) In any case, we didn't like the crappy local access, so we bought a cable modem and split the 15/5 internet fee. Had to go through some odd, duct-tape and wall-scaling involved methods for running the wires, but it worked perfectly, let us do everything we wanted, was faster and less crazy than the college LAN. I highly recommend it. Sure the money you'd be 'wasting' from not using the university's lan sucks, but whatever. And if you want, you can have a computer setup to boot from USB for when you need to access the local lan.

    --
    -=JML=-
  132. Don't be so paranoid... by Simulant · · Score: 1

    a) They probably aren't out to get you. They appear to be taking mostly reasonable steps to protect their network and your PC. The written policies are a CYA thing. It does not mean they are sniffing your online activity, scanning your PC's drives for pirated software, or logging keystrokes. A manadatory program to ensure PCs are patched and have up-to-date malware protection IS NOT THAT UNREASONABLE and there is no reason to suspect it's doing more than that. (get some CS majors to verify this if you are truly scared). Better yet, make friends with the IT dept.

    b) Don't expect the freedom to download terabytes of porn & warez using your university's bandwith. I'd call that unreasonable.

    c) Most companies you'll end up working for after college will have similar policies, get used to it.

    d) There is ALWAYS a way around these things, and plenty of ways to protect your privacy. Figure it out.

  133. If you aren't at a^2 by grolaw · · Score: 1

    you have no business going to any school in Michigan. Git the south. One hears of the MITs and CALTECHs and even UM Rollas - all far, far better (and, warmer) schools than that lame-a** Central rust belt state school. Ye gods, man - what were you drinking when you applied?

    Let them know the price of their poor networks (and save yourself the price of a poor education) by LEAVING!

    1. Re:If you aren't at a^2 by JenovaSynthesis · · Score: 1

      Agreed. When I went to Eastern Michigan, all you had to do was register your name, dorm address, and student number automatically. This entered you into their database and then you were granted an IP lease. Whole thing was automated and did not install any spyware crap (and IMO anything that checks your system for crap like this is spyware). If problems arose they just checked the database and, since the IP was only ever given to you, they could shut it off and contact you.

      You might also consider making a Windows LiveDVD with their crappy software on it. That way you can boot with it, do their moronic check, and then reboot into your real Windows installation for work.

      Another avenue you have too is to contact Merit.Net which, last I knew, had a life-time contract to provide Michigan's universities with internet access and they have to abide by Merit's policies.

      Bottom line though is CMU is probably not the place for you. I've met a lot of people who started out there and left ASAP for State, UMich, and even EMU. The saying "Mt. Pleasant - Neither a mountain nor is it pleasant" is quite apt.

      --
      Anonymous Cowards generally receive no replies because you're a coward and I'm a bitch :)
  134. So what? by Zaphod-AVA · · Score: 2, Insightful

    You are all getting your knickers in a twist over nothing.

    The client (assuming it's similar to the Cisco Clean Access Client I'm familiar with) simply checks that Windows machines are patched and running up-to-date antivirus. Remember Blaster? That thing ate college networks. Since then network policies have gotten a bit stricter. If you read them, they are trying to protect you, and cover their own ass.

    The short version of the policy: Don't do anything illegal. Run this stuff so we can make sure the network stays virus free. Don't be a jerk. If you break these, we can kick you off our network.

    If you are seriously concerned about it you are paranoid. Paranoid people should grab a cheap netbook and use that on the school network, and keep your precious personal data on a different machine. Any of that Nat/VM/router shenanigans others have suggested is violating their policies, and risking problems on their network that those policies are crafted to avoid.

    1. Re:So what? by uvsc_wolverine · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      If I had mod points today...
      +1 Insightful
      Oh well...I've already posted in this thread like 7 times so I couldn't mod you up anyway.

      --
      This space for rent...
  135. Bullshit by Weezul · · Score: 3, Insightful

    There are always operating systems that don't support your trojans. Do you have an iPhone version? Symbian? BSD? What about simply plugging two machines into the same NATed router? You scanners probably won't detect any machine behind its own firewall either.

    I'm guessing you don't know much about academic institutions beyond your little world. Academic misconduct rarely if ever extends to resource misuse cases, especially such minor ones. Imagine a student ran bittorrent seeds for pirated pornography on school servers, well they'd get a warning. If they repeated the infraction, they'd have all access terminated. If they circumvented that, they'd surely be expelled, and maybe face intrusion charges. But even then it's not clear their transcript would read "academic misconduct". In particular, there would be no "F (academic misconduct)" on their transcript because they haven't cheated in any classes.

    Sadly, residential networks create a perfect environment for windows worms. But viruses that support Mac & Linux usually do so passively by wrapping their executable within non-executable formates, like office or PDF. So IT should ask Mac & Linux users to scan for viruses as a courtesy to their windows using fellow students, but compelling scans using closed source software will only discourage compliance.

    I concur with the other posts that say running Linux will grant you an exception most anyplace. If that doesn't work, then share your roommate's connection using a NATed router.

    --
    The Christian religion has been and still is the principal enemy of moral progress in the world. -- Bertrand Russell
  136. Crazy by teraquendya · · Score: 1

    I am sorry that you have to put up with regulations such as those. At my college, all we have to do is register our MAC with our ID (done on first login) and then you are good. And so far they have not been blocking P2P, but they have been discussing it. So far it is still possible, but who knows what the future holds.

    I can only suggest that you consider to either accept the rules or go to a different University.

    Best of luck.

  137. Wireless Internet in Mount Pleasant by BBCWatcher · · Score: 1

    Wireless Internet service is available in Mount Pleasant, Michigan -- at least in certain areas. CMS Internet offers wireless starting at $29.95 per month. WMS Wireless is another possible option, but their price is higher. Another company called ISP Management offers wireless Internet as well, but their rates are not published online.

  138. Internet Service Provider by starfishsystems · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Okay, as the person who wrote the first implementation of my university's longstanding Accepable Use Policy, let me ask a fundamental question:

    In what manner are student's personal systems permitted to access the Central Michigan University network that is different from how a hundred million ISP customers access the Internet?

    If there is no difference, then the university doesn't have a better case for control over theses personal systems than any ISP does. Yes, in order to fairly deliver the network service to its customers, the ISP or the university may control bandwidth or cap usage or perform other kinds of traffic shaping. Yes, it may monitor traffic for this purpose. There is no reasonable expectation of privacy when exposing such traffic on the network. There is also no reasonable expectation for these personal systems to be trusted. An appropriate policy would grant access to the network under these terms. Many universities do this, and treat this part of the network in every respect as an extension of the Internet. This is an effective policy.

    If on the other hand these personal systems are being granted some degree of trust or privilege merely by virtue of their presence on the university network, then we clearly see a misdesigned network and a corresponding misapplication of policy. There are parts of any organizational network that people don't get to just plug random equipment into. So don't sell access to these networks to the student population. Duh. If a research group wants to attach its supercomputer cluster to the Teragrid infrastructure, for example, it should be subject to a restrictive usage policy. That's the kind of scenario that most universities, including mine, envisioned when we drafted our usage policy. The same for an outside consultant who needs connectivity to the administrative servers in order to perform software integration. But this sort of policy would be completely inappropriate for a student who is simply getting an Internet connection through university facilities.

    So how about the following proposal for the university to consider? How about you don't give every student a bomb and you don't then require them to submit to random strip searches because of the increased security risk that you brought upon yourself? It's easy to avoid the whole problem in the first place.

    --
    Parity: What to do when the weekend comes.
  139. This is purely an issue of poor IT policy.... by 1iar_parad0x · · Score: 1
    I guess their is creating their IT policy. Maybe the CIO gets kickbacks.

    First, if I were a student at CMU, I would complain about having a corporate trojan installed on my machine. How long before somebody reverse engineers the protocol for this 'client security agent' and turns this software into a backdoor on unsuspecting student's machines.

    Second, if I were a professor, I'd ask why the IT department can't set up a faculty network separate from the student body. Do some bandwidth shaping here. Give the faculty network a separate, dedicated amount of bandwidth. (I'm imagining they do this already, but I'm answering some the responses here.)

    Third, if I were a high enough ranking member of CMU's IT department, I'd be asking why we want to touch all those student computers anyway. I really don't want the department to be saddled with the help desk issues resulting from this bastard 'client security agent' malware anyway. Quarantine the non-conforming students. If these students are willing to sign waviers, put them on a separate network, firewalled from the conforming students. It's up to them to firewall their machine. Block the obvious P2P traffic (or do some intelligent bandwidth shaping). Students who wish to conform get put on the other network. Plus, by a good anti-virus solution for everybody (like Avira or NOD32). Once again, anyone who doesn't conform to this policy gets put on the quarantined network, plus they sign the waiver stating they understand the risks.

    Fourth, hire me as CMU's CIO.... (Forget it, Michigan is in the toilet as a state anyway...)

    --
    What do you mean my sig is repetitive? What do you mean my sig is repetitive? What do you mean....
  140. Grow up and understand the situation! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why do you think the college has done this? To deal with arrogant students who think they own the network and do whatever they please. With RIAA and other copyright police out there, they have to control the law breakers (that's exactly what they are) just to stay open, provide an education for its students -- and it does hurt everyone in the process. Blame the irresponsible idiots, not the college. If you are going to the college, you comply with their rules. Period. Don't like it? Don't go. Worried about your "privacy" online (what is it really that you do not want them to know about???? I've heard such weak excuses from too many others to be fooled by your argument.) then don't do those activities online while on the campus network. Grow up and accept that you are not master of everything and everyone. BTW, if you do try to get around this and get discovered, what will the college do? You might be out on your ear and whoever (probably mommy and daddy) paid your tuition will be out a good deal of money. Such a disciplinary action could also follow you throughout your life and affect your ability to get a responsible job. Yeah, go ahead and try to get around it and ignore the consequences until they happen and then gripe about that... Look at this as a chance to act like a responsible adult - it might actually teach you something you can use in later life.

  141. BSD/Solaris by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Jails, anyone? Any OS should give you the option to set up a secondary, limited account. But if you're using either BSD or Solaris, you can set up a jail OS and run the client from the jail. It may not be an option, but it could be a solution for you.

  142. Use a firewall by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    my school did the same thing. My solution was to use a Linksys box and then dhcp my own network. Because Linksys box was not a windows machine all I had to do was log on through an IE browser

  143. POUT POUT POUT (QQ) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    I love all these poor "abused and mistreated comments" from the students who think they are above the common sense rules and requirements that everyone else has to play by. I'm sorry you feel you are being wronged. Those rules /scans are there for a reason - its to protect everyone - just because you feel you are so uber and your pc is simply not capable of having some network malware/trojan - sounds like your pc is probably loaded with them - since i bet you go to sites that you shouldn't be. If you want unlimitted/unrestricted access - pay for it yourself. If you can't or there are no other providers - sounds like you need to button your lip and be thankful the school allows it at all. People who keep pushing the limits like this - are reasons that the whole mess would get shut down - and you can use the library /open lab computers.

  144. How I got around it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A crucial difference with the way I got around this was to set up a laptop with a streamlined XP install in a VM on top of ubuntu. Now in this case they had agent software that would forcibly disable internet connection sharing and all other network adapters other than the inbound one etc. It was quite simple to install a commercial spec firewall package that replaces windows' ICS system and takes over a number of other networking services.

    It was only necessary then to route to another VM, which would handle the Wi-Fi USB dongle and there would be NO way the agent software would find this and lock itself out = Instant wireless access point for me and my colleges.

    All this just to get a orphaned server on to the net to download patches that they had asked me to fix!

  145. How about a cellular wireless card? by Patrick+In+Chicago · · Score: 1

    Sucks to have to pay extra monthly but you could buy a mobile broadband card. It won't be terribly fast but you won't have to install their agent on your computer.

    1. Re:How about a cellular wireless card? by Patrick+In+Chicago · · Score: 1

      I do realize you said you looked for wireless broadband but Sprint says they provide service to CMU's zipcode.

  146. Use VPN by wiedzmin · · Score: 1

    There are numerous free programs out there that allow you to encrypt your online activities by using VPN. I've been using Hotspot Shield and Tor. Give those a try, hopefully they are not blocked by your college's IT infrastructure. Also, use OpenDNS - this will bypass simple DNS filtering and protect you against worms such as Conficker.

    --
    Bow before me, for I am root.
  147. Options by DanMelks · · Score: 1

    "The Internet interprets censorship as damage and routes around it." -- John Gilmore

    My personal recommendation is to build/buy a cheap server to act as an intermediate machine. This machine can be patched and posed as required to use the school networks, and you can run whatever you want on your personal machine. This intermediate doesn't have to be anything special or powerful and I'll bet your local CS student/ friendly neighborhood haxor can put something together for under $50. I would recommend a dual NIC setup.

    You do still have all the traditional options of swapping out NICs every 2 weeks, reverse engineering the software (which would be helpful for the rest of us), etc

  148. Live Off-campus... by bwcbwc · · Score: 1

    And get a private DSL line. I'm surprised no one has mentioned this. Much more convenient than enrolling in a different college.

    Or if they haven't implemented VOIP service in the dorms, maybe you can get DSL inside the dorms.

    In either case, ideally you should have a separate computer for your private access vs. the campus access, but that isn't a requirement. If you want to use the same computer for internet access and accessing the school network, do a dual-boot system, where the DSL is in one environment and the campus connection is in the other. Or have the DSL on both so you can access the campus remotely over the DSL, but the key is to have a separate DSL image without the "spyware". Basically, image your current HD onto a new disk then keep both disks as bootable in the system. Install all the campus stuff on one of the partitions. Depending on your environment there are different ways to hide the alternate partition from the campus partition.

    --
    We are the 198 proof..
  149. You're at their mercy, or you pay for something. by Mwise1023 · · Score: 1

    Heya, It's their network. You're subject to their rules by contract. So you have to play ball, and give up everything, or you can seek alternatives. 1. If you're techy and have more than one machine, including even a simple laptop or some super old piece of junk for $5 from a yardsale, you can setup your own server with encryption. Make it so that it cannot send out. This prevents any of their `eyes' from reporting. Or use it to simply setup a proxy server of your own that is also encrypted, and access it from anywhere with internet access. 2. Run Linux, as others have mentioned, on one machine with access. Do as you please or need with it. And have that machine share it's network access over the network with another machine of yours. 3. Have a cellphone plan already? You can do something like what Sprint or Altel offer, or whatever is local to you or that you already use; and that is, get internet over your phone. Not land line. Through the cell. Especially good if you get that $100 a month everything kind of plan, since you already pay close to that for normal cell service with text plans anyways. This way you can connect via your phone, or any device that can be plugged into via an adapater or an insert to the computer or whatever. If you already have the phone service, for a bit more, you can grab unbridled internet. It may not be super speedy, but it's better than bending over to the school's network requirements. Very best,

  150. why fight it? by MooseTick · · Score: 1

    You want internet access on your terms? Then pay for it. Get a Verizon/Sprint card and access the internet using that. They are all of $50/month and compared to the tuition you are paying, that is nothing. Or, you could surf using their terms while on campus and do whatever you believe should be "private" when off campus.

  151. Some of those measures seem draconian by pem · · Score: 1
    ...even to the point of illegality.

    For example, the FCC won't *let* the University ban wireless routers.

    (Although the University can have a policy that disallows you sharing your bandwidth via the router.)

    1. Re:Some of those measures seem draconian by KillerBob · · Score: 1

      Most Universities are classed as cities within the city, with their own by-laws, security forces, and medical/fire services. The school I went to had a population of about 40,000 including staff and post-grad students, and it had its own police, fire, and ambulance services. They can certainly have a rule restricting or prohibiting the use of certain types of network equipment. It's not so much prohibitng you from having wireless connectivity, it's prohibiting you from connecting to the school network with a computer that hasn't been thoroughly vetted since being on the Internet at large.

      Of course, if you don't like that, then remove the option to have cable/dsl in your dorm room, and tell users that if they live on campus and want network access, then they have to deal with the network being severely restricted as outlined. My point, however, is that if you want your network to be secure, and you want to allow more than one user on the network, you have to turn it into gestapo-land where users are given specific privileges which are easy to monitor/secure and everything else is prohibited.

      Of course, the school could simply implement a firewall that drops anything that isn't on 80 or 443, and redirects those ports through a silent proxy which runs server-side antivirus. Such a setup would actually be pretty trivial to do with BSD, and anybody with the know-how to tunnel through it likely isn't a serious risk to network integrity (I firmly believe that the users who don't know what the hell they're doing are the dangerous ones). I'd still prefer my method, though, as I'd rather the users know they're in gestapo-land. Security through scaring the shit out of everybody.... ^.~

      --
      If you believe everything you read, you'd better not read. - Japanese proverb
  152. Let them scan virtual machines... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Run their trojan in a Virtual Machine that also has a proxy (or just is set up to route traffic). Then use another VM to connect to the "legitimate" VM. In this scenario, you would not have your real machine use the network interface at all, and all the nosy admins would be able to do is scan a VM, but not the VM you are using to actually do anything. Best of all, you can run any OS and software you want and they have no way of telling what you really use or seeing anything except whatever you send over the wire. This is not perfect, but I think it would be good enough. Also, you might want to begin reversing that trojan and find out what it really does...

  153. So sad for you! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

    I'm going to Central Michigan University in the fall. Upon examination of their poorly organized network usage policies, I'm worried that using their internet service will expose my web browsing habits, emails, and most importantly, passwords.

    If you think that sucks, just thing of the restrictions and policies your future employer will be putting on you when you connect to THEIR network! And if you don't like it? FIRED, with no way to pay for your mortgage or your kid's clothing. Your wife runs off, and you end up working part time at Home Depot selling CAT5 cable to idiots. You eat a Big Mac every day for 15 years until you end up in the hospital without insurance coverage. The ER cardiologist happens to be your ex-wife's husband, and your kids call him "dad" and your son just got his hand-me-down Porsche for his 18th birthday.

    Trust me, it ain't pretty. Been there, done that.

  154. Shame on OSU by DeVilla · · Score: 1

    I used to be a SOC Op and later on a student sysadmin in the CIS department in the mid-90s. They had a good program for computer science, but if they would have tried to put or require something on one of my personal systems, especially my Linux systems, to administer my systems I would have protested loudly. I understand the need to police Windows but that still does not excuse the exposure imposed on the students. It only takes one bored admin to decide to does something 'fun' with it. Unfortunately, there are some admins in universities who get that bored.

    I do know there are (or were) a lot of good admins and student admins who have more of a conscience than many of the professions in industry about privacy. I know that most of them would only support this out of a pragmatic need to contain the problems on their network caused by Window's lack of security and the inability (and lack of interest) of most students and faculty to secure their systems. But the academic environment is also full of a lot of curious, bright minds who do not have the sense yet to know when to stop. When a student is caught running a MUD or pwcrack on a lab system just because he can, that a bad thing. What's likely to happen when they 'can' running something on people's home computers.

    Also, the slippery slope of the school policing the students computers gets a lot steeper once the school has something running on everyone's computer. It gets a lot easier for the RIAA, MPAA or whoever else to ask the University to scan computers for illegal activity and things that 'should not be there'. If the University is already scanning for viruses, why not uses the same infrastructure to scan for other things that should not be on those computers? It may not be what the computer staff are after, but once the foot is in the door it's hard to believe that others won't demand to use it.

    The Board of Trustees does not get access to my person computer until I get access to theirs. The students are paying them, not the other way around.

  155. Other solutions? by mu51c10rd · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Considering the many posts saying the CSA is a bad idea, it raises a question. The fact that students get their Windows machines infected with every virus, trojan, and rootkit imaginable, how else shouls IT departments handle it? In the corporate world, it seems easier. However, a network of user-controller machines sounds like an administrative nightmare. For those who think the CSA is a bad idea, what are your alternatives?

    1. Re:Other solutions? by TimTucker · · Score: 1

      Run network scans and kick PCs that are infected off the network (or limit their access to a very small number of hosts). Provide enough directions for students who have been kicked off to fix their problems and get back up and running. It should be just as acceptable to expect students to learn how to keep their PCs clean when they move out on their own as it is to expect them to learn how to take care of their own laundry.

    2. Re:Other solutions? by mu51c10rd · · Score: 1

      Thanks for responding.
      So run Nessus or have a good IDS such as Snort? That becomes very a very reactive solution. That does not stop the machines from being compromised, that just attempts to clean up. You are now relying upon those signature files for your network security. You are also allowing your network to be compromised first. Your solution works, but it is still reactive and allows for machines to be compromised first before detection. I am making the assumption that this CSA software is proactive (ensures AV is up to date, ensures patches are up to date, etc.)

  156. Just use linux. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Three out of three universities I have attended or visited used network security that was defeated by running any linux distro. (Or Mac OS) One had to register their MAC, but could ignore any downloading or scanning nonsense.

  157. Sue the bastards; it's unconstitutional by PizzaFace · · Score: 2, Insightful

    A private university might get away with this, but a public institution is constrained by the Constitution. I'd say that scanning your hard drive is an unconstitutional search, because there are less invasive means of keeping their network safe.

    I can't write your brief for you, but talk to the ACLU and the EFF.

    1. Re:Sue the bastards; it's unconstitutional by that+IT+girl · · Score: 1

      However, I can tell you I went to a private university and it was exactly the opposite--we had security but it wasn't even as stringent as some of the bigger, public schools around here. And I worked in the CS department so even if there was something going on unbeknownst to the general population, I would have known it.

      Guess it depends on the school. Parent is right, that's unconstitutional, it's akin to going through someone's wallet, bookshelf, safe, etc...

      --
      10 FILL MUG WITH COFFEE
      20 DRINK COFFEE
      30 GOTO 10
  158. Use a second computer by fadethepolice · · Score: 0

    Would it be possible to get a second network card (usb for laptop) share the internet connection and then use openvpn on the computer you are sharing the connection with to encrypt all data coming to and from that computer? Is there a way to hide the shared connection? T

  159. Run Linux by rosasaul · · Score: 1

    Every School I've been to that uses this also have an omission for Linux/Unix, so run that. There's never support or much need for scanning on Linux systems so its an easy way around their policy, but if you must use windows and a virtual box session won't cut it, you can setup firewall setting such that your computer appears to run Linux.

  160. Run your real system in a NATed VM by Craig+Ringer · · Score: 2, Interesting

    It'd be nice to just run the agent in a VM and isolate your real system that way, but it wouldn't work because they'll almost certainly be filtering by MAC address.

    What you _CAN_ do is run the agent on the physical host with a minimal OS install, and then put everything else in a VM. Have the VM connect through the real host using NAT, so it has the same MAC address as the real host. The network won't know the difference.

  161. Find a different college by incandescent.quill · · Score: 1

    If they tried to implement something like this at my university, there would be riots. There are very few restrictions on what students can and cannot do on the school internet, so long as it doesn't damage anything.

  162. At least from what is wirtten on the download page by drolli · · Score: 1

    The program takes three very reasonable measures, namely making sure a virusscanner is run, making sure windows update is run and disabling bridging (we can discuss about the last one). If there is no small print which i did not look for th9is does include "scan your hard drive". Having been an adminitrator in an university network which was connected with 100M (back then) to the switch where also the dormitories where conected to tith 100M, and running a logging firewall on the server, i can tell you that a lot of machines attacking us where from dormitories, i suppose trojan-infected.

    I my opinion providing network services in dormitories should be done by a provider outside university. Who really needs it can then use a VPN.

  163. If you can afford it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Get your own connection. If they have cable lines in the dorm, see if you can get a cable modem. If not... you will probably have to go with a cellular option. You may want to keep a second computer around to plug into the network just in case you have to access their local network for a class or something like that. I would suggest an old outdated laptop. Small, since you don't want to take up space in a dorm with something you do not use regularly and cheap since it's old.

    As for such policies, all I can say is WOW. That is ridiculous. It would be great if students would get up and protest. I don't think Americans have enough backbone left for such a thing though. If they did we would see 60s style protests for the Iraq war like there was for Vietnam. Of course, even if they had the backbone I doubt you could get the general population interested in such a "technical" issue.

    To those who defend the universities for protecting their bandwidth, etc... I challenge you to explain why the rest of the world's ISPs are somehow different. Also, even if the intentions are good, prove it! The university's property ends somewhere around the network jack. Hands off! Not even in China, with their great firewall do they mandate client side spyware! If it's really about bandwidth usage then perhaps it's time for better, smarter routers which will not give 90% of the bandwidth to 1 person just because their P2P program requested a ton of connections. I don't want to hear about funding. I'm sure it could be built with off the shelf hardware and the work could be someone's thesis.

  164. From by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Being the manager of the systems and network for a reasonably sized private University I had to implement a system such as the one described. A couple notations:
    In a private university (not saying the ones you are talking about are private) the assets including the network and the property owned by the entity are not subject to "freedom of speech". As the owner (the University) of the network I can squash whatever communications I so desire. Of course as far as personal speech (ie. gatherings, meetings etc) the University embraced the student body however for electronic communications, the outter limits such as sending spam, bigotry, hate and other thing not in line with the conduct required of the students, were banned.

    Many Universities use McAfee because the school must/should provided required software and it must be paid for. McAfee sells it for less than $1 per FTE and then gives breaks on the University owned computers. This software is easy to manage. There are competitors but in many cases McAfee outbid, outsold, or was first to the door in 2003 when isht hit the fan.
    My particular (and unnamed) University wants these things: you to not infect or attempt to break into other computers and you not to be infected. The best way to do this (based on many factors including not increasing tuition to hire more IT) is to require (for windows) updates turned on (to download and install), firewall turned on (and allow the student to make exceptions), and to have AV (of our choice) installed and configured (updates, certain settings). To do this and guarantee things are not opened up is to use this type of agent software.

    We do not care what you have on your computer (porn, illegal software, etc). However we do use multiple layers of packet shaping software (block most forms of illegal file sharing).

    We do allow exceptions of course for gaming consoles and if you want, you can use your own harware firewall (with signed agreement stating that you acknowledge you have read and understand the University computing policy and you wave your right to a warning/network reinstatement if you are found to be violating any policy including spreading a virus. You cannot have wireless enabled.

    We have many Mac and Linux users and we do of course allow them. We find most Linux users to know right from wrong and how to be somewhat secure in their computing habits.

    The primary issue is the brand new student with a hand-me-down laptop that he/she has been using over the summer and his/her friends have shown them how to download "free" music and software but not how to keep their machines safe. I litterally removed over 14,000 infected files from 7 different viruses on a laptop where the student said there was no way she could have a virus and she didn't understand why we were being mean to her because we made her install this sofware which required her to follow 8 sentences of instructions. That one person is how University networks get bogged down and viruses spread.

    The new stuff checks Mac and Linux but again, all we care about is viruses and getting DMCA's (but we don't check your machines) we check the wire to the Internet. If you want to share things on the Internet (of course I mean legally), encrypt it, use private communities, and don't use a lot of bandwidth.

  165. Dorm networks are ISPs, not luxuries by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I read over the comments from people who claim to work for the IT departments, and I can't help but think -- you just don't understand. When a student is -living- in a dorm, the internet connection in that dorm is an ISP, not a corporate network. You can set it up however you want and call it what you want, but that connection is their primary home Internet connection. That's what housing staff are telling students when they move in. That's what university staff are telling students when they pay their fees.

    Beyond that, you are ethically abusing the monopoly that the school has on students, even if those students have entered that monopoly willingly. Not every applicant had information available to them that told them they'd have to install a monitoring application on their personal-use computer. It isn't fair for a university to enact such invasive policies on students who really have no choice but to stay and complete their degree.

    Your contracts with students and your use policies and such may allow you to require users to blindly install your application on their personal computer to use the ISP service they were advertised and sold. There is no question in my mind that doing so is a consciously unfair policy that places no value on student satisfaction.

    To students: the only time I've ever seen a reaction from a large organization doing ridiculous things like this was when I started seeking out potential customers and making them aware of the situation. Try it, respectfully with students asking what your college is like. "I've mostly enjoyed things, and I think I'll have an OK education by the time I leave, but I'm personally concerned about the requirements our IT department, and the fact that administration is OK with this." Explain what you like about the school, but point out that the official school solutions to not wanting to install the app are: 1) don't use the network you were advertised, sold, and are paying for or 2) go to a different school.

    As soon as someone in admissions hears a student decline an offer based on IT's policy, there will be more attention to the ridiculous situation.

  166. Object to the principle, don't engineer hacks. by jbn-o · · Score: 1

    Quite true, in fact all the talk about using an OS which currently doesn't have the (proprietary? This raises security issues all its own) client software is tacitly accepting the Client Security Agent policy, not challenging the policy.

    Students who switch to non-Windows OSes in order to avoid running the Client Security Agent are acknowledging that the policy is right and proper for those who run Windows. There are plenty of good reasons to reject Microsoft Windows, software freedom chief among them. But when it comes to running a proprietary program in order to gain security, I don't buy it. Instead of challenging the policy (which would require students to think about underlying principles they deem important), the students hope they will be given a pass and be able to use the network. Thus when the university distributes clients for their OSes, students will have little legitimate argument to reject running the CSA software. At least resolving something by lawsuit requires one to know the law, understand one's rights, and think up a convincing argument to present to the court.

    Better policies would ditch the CSA program, make each student responsible for the use of their login credentials, and document consequences for violations of policy. But I can't say I know what freedoms these students value and are willing to fight for.

  167. Proxy their proxy by kheldan · · Score: 1

    Put together a small, low-powered, skeletal machine (Atom processor or similar) to run their nonsense software on, then install 3proxy on the machine as well, and proxy your REAL computer through the low-powered machine. They can scan that one all they want and they won't find anything except an untouched installation of Windows, meanwhile you can browse all you want with no fear of your real machine being scanned. If your network traffic itself is a problem, then I'd recommend a commercial proxy or commercial VPN account.

    --
    Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
    1. Re:Proxy their proxy by SlappyBastard · · Score: 1

      Why do I never have mod points when I read a deserving post?

      --
      I scream. You scream. I assume that means we're both acquainted with the problem. We proceed.
  168. Question for college network admins by pbaer · · Score: 1

    My university has a ban on using wireless routers in dorms. What are some plausible reasons for doing that? They already require anyone who wants internet access to run antivirus and the Bradford Persistent Agent. This might also be true for intranet access. The university provides wireless in some areas, but not in any dorms.

    --
    There are 11 types of people, those who know unary and those who don't.
  169. Windows Health Policy by TheCabal · · Score: 1

    Hmpf. Looks like someone got a hold of Windows2008.

    OK, it's like this: Win2k8 has a nice little Network Policy and Access services that is basically Network Admission control. One of the ways it can be configured is to have an agent on the client's machine verify that that the client is configured according to policy: Automatic updates, firewall, antivirus current, etc... the client is then issued a health certificate and the switch is configured to place you in the normal vlan rather than a quarantine vlan. they may be running an isolation policy further upstream so that only healthy computers can talk to their servers. There's not that many NAP agents out there, and I doubt they've written a custom one.

    Overall it's not a bad thing, but some people want to keep the aluminum foil industry in business... So what can you do? Well, likely they have a process for handling non-NAP-capable computers. Or you can run a guest XP OS in VMware, Xen, KVM or what have you, and see if you can run it in NAT mode so the same MAC and IP always appears as the source...

    Or you can just not go visiting those websites that make you worried about someone finding out.

  170. SSH dynamic routing, university servers+FoxyProxy by Menkhaf · · Score: 1

    Well, you could always do like me. I use autossh together with SSH key authentication to route data from a specific port at a server I always have access to, to my desktop computer at home.
    ssh -R 2222:localhost:22 ssh.at.university.tld does exactly that.

    From my laptop (or whatever computer I'm using), I do the opposite, route a port from the university server to my laptop:
    ssh -TNf -L 2222:localhost:2222 ssh.at.university.tld
    There are a lot of SSH flags, so there's plenty of things to play with. Compression is awesome when I'm taking the train and surfing using GRPS. On 9.6 KBps it feels like 1996 again, though.

    After that, I use my tunnel to set up SSH with dynamic routing:
    ssh -NfD 8080 ssh.at.university.tld 2>&1
    ssh -NfD 8081 -p 2222 localhost 2>&1

    In Firefox I use FoxyProxy to easily switch between the two proxies, and what this setup I can pretty much switch seamlessly between 3 proxies.

    Of course, it helps that I'm usually connected to the internet through the university connection and that my home desktop is on a 100 Mbps connected -- part of the research network here.

    Here is the relevant snippet from the SSH man page:

    -D [bind_address:]port
                              Specifies a local âoedynamicâ application-level port forwarding. This works by allocating a socket to listen to port on the local side, optionally bound to the specified bind_address. Whenever a connection is made to this port, the connection is forwarded over the secure channel, and the application protocol is then used to determine where to connect to from the remote machine. Currently the SOCKS4 and SOCKS5 protocols are supported, and ssh will act as a SOCKS server. Only root can forward privileged ports. Dynamic port forwardings can also be specified in the configuration file.

    While I'm here:

    +----------+
    | Fix Your |
    | Fuckin' .|
    | Code ....|
    +----------+
        |..|
        |..|
        |..|..

    Come on Slashdot. Your page looks like ass. No unicode support. Lame.

    --
    A proud member of the Onion-in-Hand alliance
  171. Virtualization is simpler than a full OS by RAMMS+EIN · · Score: 1

    ``While what he says is factually correct''

    No. A virtualization layer can and should be much simpler than a full operating system. You _can_ have one without bugs.

    --
    Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
  172. UofT by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The University of Toronto just gives you a program to run that injects a fake virus and makes sure you have anti-virus software installed. Then they register your MAC address I think and you get to use it for the rest of the semester.

    they also give out free AV software which is nice,

  173. Bullshit !! Scripts don't know if you are a target by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    99% of the security out there is of a casual nature. Most of us are not working for the NSA or DoD, so we are not likely to be specifically targeted.

    Bullshit !
    An automated script is too stupid to reaslise you aren't a worthwile target.

  174. Nope, run a guest on an OS with connection by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If your guest OS encrypts before it gets to the host OS, it cannot be sniffed. If your guest OS encrypts itself on disk before the host OS gets to read it, it cannot be read. If it encrypts itself in memory before the host OS gets access to it, it cannot be captured.

    All the above CAN be done, but they'd have to write the application to deliberately crack your protection.

    And ANYTHING you write is by default copyrighted to you.

    D
    M
    C
    A

  175. Photoshop CS3 works under linux by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Oh, you didn't know?

    Well, then don' yack about things you know nothing about.

  176. It's a shame you're not a British student... by pandrijeczko · · Score: 1

    ...because if you were then I'd tell you to the STFU because it's my taxes paying for you to sit on your spotty backside for three years turning up to lectures once a week for your Media Studies degree - therefore you will do as you are told.

    --
    Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.
  177. Re: 4 year Linux phase? by An+anonymous+Frank · · Score: 1

    I wish Linux stopped being "just a phase" already, where all the kids pretend to use it so they may seem cool(er).

  178. My scenario by strawberryutopia · · Score: 1

    You're going some place weird, my friend. The limit of my Uni's Acceptable Use Policy is that your computer have anti-virus software installed. They don't come round checking though. The only other limitations they have are "no peer-to-peer file sharing", legal or illegal, and no connecting more than one device to a network port because most people can't set that up properly and it annoys them.
    I of course regularly wirelessly share my wired internet connection, but it's set up properly. They may be able to detect that I'm doing it, but to be honest, IT Services use the "secret" DC++ file sharing we have going on campus as much as anyone else, so they're not going to care about a little secured ad-hoc wireless network.

    --
    I'm a leaf on the wind, watch how I soar...
    -Lucy-
  179. Re:Two computers? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A couple of things
    1) Most 'agents' only run on Windows. You of course being an enlightened Slashdot Reader will be running Linux. They might not even have a client - and if they do, you could control access.
    2) If all else fails, run a cheap computer with Windows as a firewall

  180. RIT here by KingAlanI · · Score: 1

    Fortunately, my university's IT policies aren't so asshat-ish. Yes, they offer that McAfee download, but I think the rules technically say that you have to have some AV installed, not necessarily *that* one. (I do use it because they hand it out free, and I'm not paranoid about that stuff anyway because of my largely intelligent browsing practices)
    Linux machines - no problem
    Considering the linux fans that must exist aroudn here, and all the Mac-heads [I do seem to see more Apple laptops], it's no surprise that that "alternate OSes" are okay.

    --
    I listen to both RIAA and non-RIAA stuff if I like the music, tangential business/politics nonwithstanding.
  181. pwning VMware by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We all know Theo de Raadt is an ass. While what he says is factually correct, it also completely misses the nature of most security situations. 99% of the security out there is of a casual nature. Most of us are not working for the NSA or DoD, so we are not likely to be specifically targeted.

    Except that you don't have to be specifically targeted. Attacking (say) VMware could be one of a suite of things that a playload runs, and if you're running unpatched virtualization software your host (and other guests) would also get nailed:

    http://lists.vmware.com/pipermail/security-announce/2009/000055.html

    The next update of Conficker (or whatever) could have code that attacks not only Windows, but VMware as well on the assumption that there's hardware out there with multiple Windows instances.

    This may not be a big deal in your case, but you should be aware of it for a proper risk analysis.

  182. Use money to evade it! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you are so worried about them finding something on your computer buy a satellite internet plan, then you don't have to worry about some guy in a dark IT room breaking into your computer looking for illegal property ;P

    You could also get one of those cheap mini-laptops, they will run you like $250, and only use that computer when you are at school

    I really wouldn't worry about it though, unless you do have something on your computer you could potentially get busted for.

  183. Your fear is misplaced. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I work for Western Michigan University and we have a similar implementation here, utilizing a system to ensure that the student computers in the dormitory are audited for security patches and antiviral updates.

    I can tell you that with the economical conditions that affect Michigan's public universities, CMU cannot afford the manpower to monitor the more private aspects of student computing. They won't utilize the system to check for piracy. This doesnt mean you won't have to worry about the RIAA or MPAA, but I can tell you with reasonable assurance that your fear is misplaced.

    I would recommend utilizing a VPN such as hamachi for certain network communication, CMU may provide a solution available to students when you arrive (as we have at WMU).

    Last but not least, Go Broncos.

  184. Insider clarification by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I work at CMU's IT Help Desk, and I want to clarify a few things.

    Thing one: The CSA does a single scan every time you register your computer (which, unless you go over quota, shakes out to be the beginning of each semester) and it checks to see if you have one of our six supported anti-virus/malware/spyware applications (McAfee, Nortonfail, Trend, Sophos, Kapersky, AVG), any P2P applications that are in the (fairly limited) list, and latest Windows patches and AV definitions. Essentially, if the CSA sees that you don't have correct AV/definitions/security patches, it won't let you on - this is to protect the rest of the network.

    Subtext: Yes, it does scan for P2P applications - however, if it sees them it won't block your computer from the network. It pretty much just says, "hey, don't pirate kthxbai" and lets you be.
    Subtext 2: The result of this scan shows up in our system essentially as a list of all these things and "PASS" or "FAIL" next to it - that allows us to tell people what they need to do to get onto the network if they fail the CSA.

    Thing two: After the scan, it removes itself from your computer. This is not a situation where the application stays on your computer and watches everything you do at all. It's 100% temporary. The only times it will scan are when you re-register your computer.

    Thing three: It doesn't scan or even install the client if you're running *nix. For a while *nix machines didn't even have to be registered to use the network, but just needed a CMU-owned ID and password to get onto the network. I don't know if that still applies, though...

    Thing four: I guarantee you that 90% of CMU's IT department is reading this post and laughing their asses off at the wild inaccuracies presented by this entire thread.

    To close: No, this is not just Big Brother trying to allay your suspicions through falsehood. These are FACTS and a true explanation of how the system works. If you don't want to believe me that's fine and dandy, but that doesn't make the contents of this post any less true.

  185. I2P or Tor by doronbc · · Score: 1

    http://www.i2p2.de/how_networkcomparisons There are many other applications and projects working on anonymous communication and I2P has been inspired by much of their efforts. This is not a comprehensive list of anonymity resources - both freehaven's Anonymity Bibliography and GNUnet's related projects serve that purpose well. That said, a few systems stand out for further comparison: * Tor / Onion Routing * Morphmix and Tarzan * Mixminion / Mixmaster * Freenet * JAP * MUTE / AntsP2P

  186. get over it by shentino · · Score: 1

    If you want to risk having your network access revoked, or worse, getting expelled, be my guest.

    You don't have to let them put crap on your machine. In turn, they don't have to let you chew up their bandwidth, which, btw, they are willing to let you burn at no charge. Generous of them isn't it?

    My college blocks outbound DNS and forces you to use their nameserver, which filters out stuff they don't think students should be accessing, like IRC. I would whine, but then I remember the promise I made when I agreed to the AUP. I also remember that it's their network and they're the ones who bought all the routers, switches, cables, and are paying for internet access.

    In short, quit your damn whining about it. IMO, anyone who wants to whine and mope about getting conditional access to free bandwidth is no better than a wardriver looking for hotspots to exploit and that don't give a rip that their "ISP" is the one on the hook for any of their misdeeds.

  187. no assurances ... by oneiros27 · · Score: 1

    I can assure you that the University's IT office is underfunded enough that even if they wanted to go out of their way to scan your computer for anything else (they do not), they would not be able to.

    Speaking as someone who has worked in an university's IT department for 7 years. (although, that was 6 years ago), I can assure you that there are people who work late and do things on their own time with university resources. (sure, it might just be the 5pm game of whatever the FPS of the week is, but we also have the person who decided to set up a porn site on the university's general use webserver (okay, this was 1996?97 or so), but there's also the folks who are just curious, and have less ethics than necessary.

    ... and then there's the case where Student Judicial Services or some government agency asks for us to monitor someone -- make copies of all e-mail going in/out of their accounts, etc. If the charges get dropped, you'll never hear about it, but we had an employee (in our department) convicted of child porn, a faculty member convicted for stealing from a federal grant, etc, etc.

    ... so, I'd have to say that odds are, they are able to scan a whole lot more than you think, and if they have students working in the IT department, there's probably scanning going on outside of the university's policies.

    --
    Build it, and they will come^Hplain.
  188. Its Bradford Campus Manager by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    Looking at the link the OP provided, his school is using Bradford Campus Manager as its NAC solution. Having used the product myself, I can tell you a few things about it.

    1. If your school has the latest release, the agent runs on Windows/Mac and Linux. So using Linux will not get you around it.
    2. The agent scans for Antivirus, Antispyware and patch level compliance for the OS. It also has the capability to scan for a certain process or registry key. Most deployments only make use of the first 3 functions. The administrators have no ability to look at your documents using the agent. There is no feedback from the client to the admins beyond what its scanning for
    3. The agent includes a messaging feature which is pretty useful actually. It allows the admins to send messages to any and all agents on PCs connected to their network. They could make use of that to let you know when the network is going down or for an emergency alert system, like an armed intruder on campus.

    There is no reason to be paranoid though. I used to run this solution on my campus for a year (we stopped because the remediation process is via vlan switching which can be cumbersome) and its one of the less intrusive nac solutions that a university can deploy. A lot less intrusive than cisco clean access for example.

  189. Nix? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Typically the client which the university requires you to install is a Windows application/service. If you go with some flavor of Unix, you should be able to get around that. Boston College has a similar requirement using the McAfee EPO agent. If you use Linux, then you were pretty much home free and just needed to register your NIC with the ITS department.

  190. Baaaaaaad. Shockingly bad. by TheMCP · · Score: 1

    One of my previous jobs was director of software systems for a university.

    The policy that DML describes is unwarranted and irresponsible in the extreme. If any of my people had proposed it to me, I would have forbidden it and would most likely have fired them for incompetence. The idea is shocking. To force students to install essentially unknown software provided to them by the university? Horrible.

    If I were a student there and installed their "security" software and anything went wrong with my computer, I would likely talk to a lawyer about suing the university for damages; after all, if their security software caused the problem it's their fault, and if their security software failed to prevent the problem then I could allege that they fraudulently gained access to my computer by claiming their software would secure my computer, and if the problem is indeterminate I could blame it on their indeterminate software. So, by demanding I install the stuff, the college is creating a huge liability for themselves.

    Moreover, Central Michigan University is a *public* university, so the idea of them forcing students to install software on their laptops to use the network raises questions of government violation of privacy.

    A more realistic practice would be to have a policy stating to students that they are expected to maintain their computer free of viruses, malware, or unauthorized external access, and that in doing so they should use such security software as is normally necessary and appropriate for their operating system. Then let the student maintain their own system, and if you find it's being a problem, kick them off the network. Anyway, the student network should be isolated from the administration network in the first place, so if a student's computer is misbehaving, it shouldn't be able to cause problems for the university beyond that it would annoy other students.

  191. Indiana University by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm not sure how it is now (haven't lived at the dorms for six years) but when I was a freshman at IU they made you install a some sort of "connection software" which checked that your virus scan and windows updates were current - if you passed it registered you on the network. After that it would check every week or so to make sure you were still current - if not it would block your network access and tell you to update.

    What a lot of people ended up doing was installing the software, getting registered, then formatting and reinstalling windows. This kept your mac address registered for the whole year and you didn't have any IU software running in the background.

  192. UMKC by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The UMKC network requires you to download and install software to verify that you have an up-to-date virus scan and have installed all high-priority windows updates. They do have one especially strange IT policy though - no PlayStation 3's on the network. They say that the PS3 internet connection requires incoming firewall exceptions while the 360 and wii only require outbound exceptions.

    Interestingly, connecting a PS3 to the network grants you network access without even giving your user information (so even less of a hassle than using Linux). I suspect they may be telling people the PS3 won't work on the network in an attempt to hide the fact that they haven't secured it... for whatever reason.

    They also won't allow you to connect even a simple unmanaged Ethernet switch - only one device on the network per wall jack. This becomes a hassle for people who have a desktop, laptop, and game console.

  193. From the other side by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I work at the helpdesk for a small college (1200 students) in NE Ohio. We use Cisco NAC to manage our clients. Though the program does check your computer to make sure that it has windows updates and updated antivirus. There is no way that we can log your keys or steal your passwords, and the same goes for others on our network. We lock everything (ping, RDP, \\$computername$\c$) at the switch level, so nobody can access your computer on the dorm or wireless vlans.

    I cant speak for CMU, but I can only assume that they have this system in place to keep viruses from spreading, like mentioned before, for the first 2 weeks of the semester all we see here are kids who go home, download Xmen and 26 trojans, and cant figure out why their 8 year old IBM R40 (P4 and 256 RAM) that their dad jacked from his office (you can tell because it still has the domain login screen and a security tag), and we want to keep them from spreading to your (or my) machine.

    It sucks, we realize that, but its all really for your protection. I would actually be wary of a network that allows anyone who wants to connect to your network, because every hill-rod yokel in town will jank your bandwith and infect everyone otherwise.

  194. crap by Uberbah · · Score: 1

    But let's be honest here. It is the university's network, even if you are semi-footing the bill, and they get to decide network policy rules.

    But as a public university, there are sharp limits what rules they may impose. See: the Bill of Rights. Just because you live in a dorm doesn't mean you give up your rights to due process or being secure in your person, papers & effects.

    if their students are constantly getting DMCA notices, the university might get into trouble.

    Or...not. The whole point of DMCA notices is that the ISP has immunity as long as the content is taken offline. Zero liability for the university, zero trouble.

    So of course they block limewire, not like it has a legitimate use anyways.

    Of course it has legitimate uses, just like any other P2P network.

    Simply put, their network, their rules.

    Garbage, see above. If you want to be an ankle grabber for authoritarians, knock yourself out. But don't be a WATB when the rest of us stand up for our rights.

  195. Don't use your college as your ISP? by JerryLove · · Score: 1

    Get an air-card or (unless you are in the dorms) your local cable comapny.

    Obviously there are any number of more complex options:

    - You could date/bribe/extort someone in IT into exempting you.

    - If the network will accept connections without this app, you could use any number of tactics to not run it (remove it, run an incompatable OS (do they have an Amegia Workbench version?), Run Black-ICE to toggle off functionality, block it at the firewall.

    - If the client is required to connect, you could setup the client on a proxy server and attach through that using your real box.

    It's worth noting that your useage can be monitored whether you have installed software on your PC or not (that's what a network sniffer is for). The only way around that would be to establish an encrypted connection to something outside their WAN and use it as a proxy.

  196. Proxy or offline mode by DigitalCrackPipe · · Score: 1

    Off the top of my head, perhaps either having a proxy computer running that software and bridging it to your real computer, or running that software in a virtual machine, as others have suggested.

    Also, until you figure out a more sensible solution, I'd suggest keeping all sensetive data on an encrypted drive (such as truecrypt or freecrypt) and only decrypting that volume after killing the university spyware (after unplugging if needed). While I'd suggest having an encrypted drive regardless, you also need a working solution that isn't a pain in the neck every single day. Good luck.

  197. As a relatively recent graduate by zhar · · Score: 1

    I graduated from Central Michigan University in May 2008. While the current network policies may seem restrictive, I did live in the dorms during the 2003-2004 school year, and between xbox gaming and unlimited p2p filesharing, we had to survive with bandwidth that had the throughput of a coathanger. Average download speeds would rarely top the equivelent of dialup. I know that there is a plethora of affordable off-campus housing in Mount Pleasant, most of it with broadband included in the price of rent. If you aren't trapped by the horrible if-you-get-any-scholarship policy that makes you live on campus for two years, I strongly advise you to look into it.

    --


    DRINK DUFF (responsibly) DRINK DUFF (responsibly) DRINK DUFF
  198. Client Security Agents are frequently irrelevant by jonadab · · Score: 1

    > Another concern I have is the 'Client Security Agent' that students are
    > required to install and leave on their systems to use the network.

    I don't know for sure about the one at your particular college, so YMMV, but in a lot of cases, the enforcement mechanism for Client Security Agents is DHCP. If you don't have the CSA on your computer reporting that you're all up-to-date and virus free and so forth, the DHCP server won't lease you an IP address or tell you where the nameservers are.

    Really. I'm not making this up.

    This being a site for computer nerds, I'm not going to explain in detail why that approach won't actually keep anyone who knows what they're doing off the network, other than to note that DHCP is on completely the wrong layer of the OSI model for that.

    I guess these security agents aren't necessarily *entirely* worthless (particularly if they're mostly intended to protect against the zombified PCs of users who aren't entirely sure whether Microsoft XP is their internet service provider or their modem and cannot resist installing the ActiveX controls needed to view the online greeting cards they got in their Hotmail from people claiming to be former classmates of theirs from schools they never attended). But I sure wouldn't want to run a network that used one of those things as its primary form of protection.

    --
    Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.
  199. One possible solution... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    As someone who was in college not too long ago, I have experience with this. My school's network policy had two phases (this might not work if yours isn't like this). The first phase was to determine your OS and register your machine and OS by MAC address. Phase two was the additional requirements for Windows machines (must run school antivirus, must be at least win2k, etc). The solution I used was to boot to a Linux live cd (anything with a browser should work) and do the network registration phase from the linux environment. This would cause my MAC address to get registered as having a Linux OS and therefore be exempt from the Windows rules.

  200. Follow the rulse by the letter by drolli · · Score: 1

    My simple opinion: Follow the rules by the letter. Make the scanner swallow on a big random data file of yours and then call the helpdesk.

  201. Do your research by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The CSA does a registry scan for service packs, AV definitions,and your machine's MAC addresses, nothing more, nothing less. It doesn't even install anything, it runs in memory one time without making any registry modifications. (We actually recommend that you delete the application beyond the first run, because it's generated by the server with a timestamp and won't work at all 5 minutes after it's generated.
    The CSA doesn't look at your hard drive other than the registry, and our network monitoring only looks at quantity of data, not the data itself. A review was made at one point whether to inspect headers to eliminate less than legit torrenting, but the lawyers recommended that we collect absolutely zero data on traffic type as to maintain a "safe harbor" network environment. (Essentially if the RIAA comes knocking, it's your problem, not ours, as long as we don't know what you were doing.)

    We honestly don't care what you do with our network as long as you're not sending spam or viruses to other students.

    For other info, call the help desk or visit us in person. We're more than willing to discuss network policy and or bitch about what we're given to work with infrastructure wise.

  202. 3 words by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Cellular Air Card...

  203. CMU Student here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I am a current CMU student who just moved out of the dorms. I cannot tell you the amount frustration I had with the IT department and registering my computers. (Get ready for some headaches) The best thing I can tell you is install the sh*%y antivirus run the stupid test thing and do a system restore on your comp to undo the installation of mcafee. (But this still sucks because even upon uninstalling crap is still in your registry etc. Also they did support AVG as an alternative. Unfortunatley they did not support Avira Antivir.

    Ohh and another thing get ready for a WEEKLY BANDWITH CAP of 5 gigs! Good luck trying to keep your steam apps up to date. The bad part is when you do go over this limit you have to restart the whole process of running their security crap.

    On the up side my p2p sharing was great. You will find the internet is blazingly fast (assuming you get through the hoops to use it) and they did not block any p2p ports/programs/traffic that I am aware of.

    I had 2 comps running (1 Win XP and 1 Vista/Ubuntu). They make you have SP3 for xp and all the updated definitions for your antivirus (which by the way is stupid because you can't go and download them till you get online but you can't go online till they are updated). See the problem here...what came first the chicken or the egg. Not sure what vista updates were needed.
    As for my Ubuntu installation. You are still under the 5 gig restriction but if I remember correctly you don't have to run the CSA bulls*&t.

    Here are a few tips for the MANY times I called the IT help desk.
    -You get 1 free reset a semester if you go over the limit.
    -Try telling them you have a problem running the CSA thing that its trying to detect Mcafee as your antivirus instead of AVG (of course this can be BS and you can have neither) Say something like I had one installed and I switched and its still trying to detect Mcafee. The guy I spoke to one time got frustrated and just said what the hell and unblocked everything that time so I didn't have to run their crap. The thing is I tried calling latter in the year to say the same thing and the guy I spoke to that time said it was impossible to do that and gave me straight up lie. After I told him that yes he can do it because it was done before he got defensive and tried to get information on his (i'm assuming) co-worker who went against their policy.

    Anyways
    Good luck!