Standard Cellphone Chargers For Europeans

k33l0r writes "The European Commission is confident that all major cellphone companies have reached an agreement on a standard cellphone charger for consumers within the EU. 'People will not have to throw away their charger whenever they buy a new phone,' said EU Industry Commissioner Guenter Verheugen. Nokia, Sony Ericsson, Motorola, Apple, LG, NEC, Qualcomm, Research in Motion, Samsung and Texas Instruments have all signed the agreement."

Comments

How about the damn US?

[furby076]

Well this may carry over as a convenience to the US but I doubt it.(why have two plants making two different types of chargers when you can have one plant making one charger type). That why is Verizon & AT&T. They love locking people in, and since there are so many service carriers they do so with products (iPhone for one).

Hopefully this will spread - but I doubt it.

Re:How about the damn US?

[nine-times]

It's not too much of a lock-in. I can't imagine someone saying, "Man, I'd love to change carriers, but I just don't want to have to use a new charger (which comes with the free phone I'll get). I guess I'll stick with my current carrier!"

I think it's more an issue of the carriers not caring, and the manufacturers using whatever charger is convenient and cheap for them at the time. Standardization is the sort of thing that benefits pretty much everyone over the long term, but can be a PITA for interested players at the time it's started up. So absent of some external impetus, it often just doesn't get started.

Re:How about the damn US?

[Xtravar]

What.
My AT&T phone charges fine with any mini-USB cable I find.

The weird thing is my GF has a similar model phone, but with Verizon, and hers won't charge through USB, but we can share the same wall outlet.

Re:How about the damn US?

[furby076]

It's not too much of a lock-in. I can't imagine someone saying, "Man, I'd love to change carriers, but I just don't want to have to use a new charger (which comes with the free phone I'll get). I guess I'll stick with my current carrier!"

My phone came with one charger. I keep a charger at my desk at home (so i can be on my computer and not worry about charging). But I like to have my phone by the bed in case someone calls me - so i dont have to run to the living room (plus it is a secondary alarm for me). So I need to be an additional charger. Then I need one for work (blue-tooth kills phones)...that's two chargers. Then I need one for the car (blue-tooth again, plus i travel a lot)... that's three chargers. Now I also like to connect the device to my computer to transfer files...4th accessory. I would prefer if i could just swap.

The carriers do care - a lot of the profit for the stores is accessories. They try and push this on you like candy. They buy the chargers for $2-$3 from the manufacturer and sell them for $15 to $25. That's a big profit margin. It's also why you can generally negotiate them. They get a ton of money for selling you phone/service. They are not willing to lose that money so they will give you the chargers.

Re:How about the damn US?

[Laebshade]

That's because Verizon locks their phones down big time. Since the phone detected a USB data connection, it refuses to charge.

Re:How about the damn US?

[MillionthMonkey]

But with all these people running around with new iphones, there are a lot of secondhand Verizon phones available dirt cheap for people who don't care about silly phones.

I was forced to drop AT&T (so I have a used razr here) only because of poor reception. There is no reception for AT&T phones where I work; calls are dropped after seconds, and everyone with an iphone is always running outside as soon as their phone rings. This is in Cupertino CA within walking distance of Apple headquarters.

Re:How about the damn US?

[AndrewNeo]

That's silly, and very wrong. Both my Motorola phones charged fine over USB (with the drivers installed, but Moto does that on all their phones), the only one I had was a VX9800 that wouldn't charge over the USB adapter. It's more likely that it just doesn't support it for whatever stupid reason, other than blaming Verizon.

Re:How about the damn US?

[Forge]

Where I live, it's the phone manufacturers that make money off chargers. I.e. A replacement charger for my Blackberry cost the equivalent of U$6 while one for a much cheaper Samsong cost U$15.

The phone company itself would much prefer if the phones could be virtually free and if they didn't even need chargers at all. (Disclosure: I work for a mobile provider.) The providers make money off call credits and phone bills. Some (including my employer) provide phone instruments at subsidized prices in hopes that people will get hooked on talking to everyone else.

Re:How about the damn US?

[Anonymous Coward]

Funny, I lived in Cupertino for 2 years with full coverage everywhere I went, this could might as well be a structural issue interrupting whatever frequency AT&T happens to run on.

Re:How about the damn US?

[cayenne8]

"Then I need one for work (blue-tooth kills phones)."

Why not just use the landline they provide you at work at your desk?

Re:How about the damn US?

[jabithew]

I suspect this is more to do with waste disposal. I don't know about fellow-geeks, but I have recently cleared my room and found about 15 obsolete chargers for various items I no longer own. All of that is going to have to be disposed of. This new agreement may be the first step towards preventing companies from boxing chargers, or forcing them to sell versions with and without charger.

Re:How about the damn US?

[jabithew]

Are you sure this wasn't a flaw with the razr? My dad had one of those, on the same network as me, and he couldn't get a signal where I could with an old Nokia brick (TM).

Re:How about the damn US?

[Maxo-Texas]

Since you can buy chargers for $9 to $14 at the local walmart (I have one for my office, home, car), there is not much lockin.

But it is idiotic. There should be one kind of charger. Then chargers would be $5. And you would have a lot less waste (my last phone chargers became junk when I changed phones).
I can use the same micro-sd memory card on my various phones-- that's nice for transferring data. And I can plug them into my laptop.

Multiple charger formats is as dumb as having more than 5 or 6 kinds of alternators.

Re:How about the damn US?

[nine-times]

Yeah, I didn't RTFA so I don't know if this info is included, but I've read elsewhere that the plan is to stop boxing chargers with the phones and instead sell it as an optional accessory.

Re:How about the damn US?

[MillionthMonkey]

It affects everyone here with an AT&T phone. Only one person has a razr at all; there are lots of people with iphones, though, getting dropped calls unless they run outside. Apple has a bunch of local facilities just up the street; maybe they use landlines? Everyone thinks it's bizarre.

Re:How about the damn US?

[MightyYar]

Why not just use the landline they provide you at work at your desk?

Do you really think he doesn't have a reason? I mean, give the 2456 user ID some benefit of the doubt here...

Re:How about the damn US?

[vishbar]

The boss got angry when he saw a 4-hour call to a 900 number.

Re:How about the damn US?

[contrapunctus]

Keep in mind vampire electronics and chargers that stay plugged in even though they are not charging anything...

Re:How about the damn US?

[Anonymous Coward]

I run a small cell phone accessory website - CellUp.com and make most of my money selling replacement chargers and batteries. The phone manufacturers and Carrier stores make billions (yes billions) off of proprietary chargers and batteries. The chargers cost about $0.20 each to manufacture and sell for up to $30 at the carrier retail stores. I'm very surprised that they are agreeing to do this in Europe and will be even more surprised if it actually happens.

Re:How about the damn US?

[metamatic]

Yeah, BlackBerry is mini-USB, so there's lots of competition, hence the cables and chargers are cheap.

Re:How about the damn US?

[xgr3gx]

Yeah really - and think of the waste. I bet tons of those chargers get thrown out every year. x2 if people buy another one for in the car.

Just use a mini-usb plug for charging and data.
Then all you'll ever need to charge any phone would be a USB cable. If you want to use a wall charger, get a usb to 110V (or whatever for your locale's electrical system).
For your car, just get a usb to 12V.

Next step...do that for every small electronic device. That would be great.

Re:How about the damn US?

[citylivin]

No headset at desk.

Needs to be on call and on the move over a large building.

Call forwarding the desk phone is not easy or convenient

Budgets cuts.

Mobile workstation / desk.

shared phone (ive seen it!)

Lower radiation requirement than company provided phone.

Doesnt want to dial 9

DTMF bug in cisco switches unable or unwilling to be patched by IT.

the list is endless. Why nitpick the guy?

Re:How about the damn US?

[orzetto]

Some people in meatspace can actually receive calls, in which case it is convenient to be available always at the same number.

Re:How about the damn US?

[furby076]

Why not just use the landline they provide you at work at your desk?

Out of all the reasons others posted - some of which were funny, plus I never saw someone defend someone else on /. the main reason for me is that our company 1) records all calls - so I really don't want my call to the doctor recorded, and 2) they probably frown on it if someone dials to the next state (where i am from) which costs them money.

I am sure it wouldn't be a huge deal, but why take a chance. Besides, as point one, I don't want my calls recorded on my work line.

Re:How about the damn US?

[vertinox]

Standardization is the sort of thing that benefits pretty much everyone over the long term, but can be a PITA for interested players at the time it's started up. So absent of some external impetus, it often just doesn't get started.

Why not just use USB?

I mean my iPhone and iPod use the same charger interchangeably and I saved myself buying a second cable when taking a device too and from work for an older model.

Now the iPhone end of the USB device isn't universal but that could be resolved.

Re:How about the damn US?

[nine-times]

Well that's what they're talking about-- except using micro USB instead of the normal connector, obviously. But if you're asking why that's a PITA, it's just because you have to get a lot of different people with different interests to agree on something. At least one company is going to want the standard to be whatever they're already using, and at least one company is going to want it to be their own proprietary connector which they can collect licensing fees on. Once agreement is reached, anyone not already using that connector is going to have to make some design changes for their products (however minor they may be), buy different components from their suppliers, and/or retool their factory a little.

It may be a simple change and it may be a good idea, but institutional inertia alone will keep a lot of changes from happening. People don't want to spend effort and money working on something that they don't have to do.

Re:How about the damn US?

[nine-times]

The carriers do care - a lot of the profit for the stores is accessories.

That may be, but for one thing, the carriers don't even own a lot of those stores. People buy stuff at Best Buy and Radio Shack, and even a lot of those dedicated cell phone stores don't have a direct relationship with the carriers.

And anyway, it would only support my claim that the current lack of standardization isn't caused by carriers trying to "lock you in". If they're making huge profits from selling accessories when people get new phones, then it only stands to reason that they'd want more churn, and not less.

Re:How about the damn US?

[owlstead]

Why not use the landline?

Because it does not hold all my contacts (at my work, it doesn't even use one)
Because my cellphone won't remember who I've called when using the landline
Because using wires sucks (we've got VOIP, no DECT possible - that's progress to you)
Because I've got a contract with a large number of minutes left
Because I don't want other people to call the landline in return
Because the cellphone will drain anyway

Re:How about the damn US?

[PitaBred]

You make a pretty glaring assumption. If they pay for his cell phone, why would they want to pay for an additional land line? It's a lot easier to have just one number to contact someone no matter where they are.

Re:How about the damn US?

[evilned]

Blackberry used to be MiniUSB, they now use MicroUSB. Plantronics Headsets seem to have made the switch to Micro as well.

Re:How about the damn US?

[cayenne8]

"You make a pretty glaring assumption. If they pay for his cell phone, why would they want to pay for an additional land line? It's a lot easier to have just one number to contact someone no matter where they are."

Just going from my experience, I've never worked in an office/cube that didn't come with a private landline phone.

Even on contracting gigs...they give phones in my experience.

I've always figured, why use my minutes (not to mention often cells can get bad reception, and you end up shouting in them where everyone else can hear your conversations).

Re:How about the damn US?

[Ihmhi]

Phone Company != Phone Store

Re:How about the damn US?

[tsa]

You know that chargers are light enough to carry around, do you? And does your phone's battery really run out so quickly that you need to have it connected to a charger all the time?

Re:How about the damn US?

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe his office is cheap like mine. There's nothing worse than having to explain to your client the reason he just heard a phone dialing is because the office only has one line and someone just tried to dial out without first checking for a dial tone.

Re:How about the damn US?

[Anonymous Coward]

Having sold cellphones at a previous job I know that the companies LOVE the markup on chargers. Especially selling the car charger in a bundle of accessories. I doubt any company is keen to loose 270% profit even on a small item when they can barely turn 5% from the cellphone itself. That is of course before they get their contract incentives.

Re:How about the damn US?

[dissy]

Why not just use the landline they provide you at work at your desk?

Yea, just try to explain the 2000 mile phone extension cord you are trailing behind you back to the home office to the TSA...

Re:How about the damn US?

[FlyingBishop]

I've never had a charger outlast the thing it charges. Of course, this is still nice, but unless they gave some thought to durability, it doesn't solve the larger problem, which is that cellphones and their chargers are designed to last a year or two.

Re:How about the damn US?

[jfanning]

Why not just use the landline they provide you at work at your desk?

Landline?!?! Are you still living in the dark ages or something.

Where I work they took away our landline years ago. Everyone gets a mobile phone.

Re:How about the damn US?

[jfanning]

Just going from my experience, I've never worked in an office/cube that didn't come with a private landline phone.

Even on contracting gigs...they give phones in my experience.

I've always figured, why use my minutes (not to mention often cells can get bad reception, and you end up shouting in them where everyone else can hear your conversations).

Welcome to my office. There isn't a landline in sight except for the conference phones in the meeting rooms. And there are hundreds of people working here.

Re:How about the damn US?

[moosesocks]

My Verizon LG phone (enV2) has a micro-USB charger. I believe most other current models have the same.

I lost my original one, was in an urgent situation, and bought one from the local Verizon store. It was a generic model, and cost about $10 (no authentication, DRM, or anything of that sort). The salesman explained to me that Verizon themselves are sick of stocking 50 different kinds of chargers, and are trying to standardize on micro-USB for new models. People lose and re-buy chargers fast enough that they're not worried about losing a few sales.

Re:How about the damn US?

[cayenne8]

Wow...that is just something I've never run into before. What part of the country are you working in? I'm really curious as to what companies do this? I've honestly NEVER run into this type scenario before.

Good, I guess...

[TheRaven64]

My last two phones have been Nokias, and both of them have had the same charger, with an adaptor for using older Nokia chargers. My two phones before that were Sony-Ericsson and they also had compatible chargers. Do people really throw away their old chargers? If you're moving from one manufacturer to another, you can generally find someone switching in the opposite direction and swap with them. Or sell your old phone including the charger.

While I like the idea of compatible chargers, I suspect that this means that all of the existing chargers will suddenly become obsolete with the next generation of phones...

Re:Good, I guess...

[furby076]

Overall this is a positive step. Yes current gen phone chargers/accessories won't be involved but such is life for new technology standards - some things get left behind. But from next year and on we will be using a standardized interface which will mean you only have to buy the product once. Since they are all the same expect better pricing ($20 for a charger = rip off). One of the things that kept me from going to a new product type was having to re-buy all of my accessories...i would have to negotiate with the sales person "new phone and contract needs to come with new chargers for my car, home, and work plus computer adapter or no deal"

Re:Good, I guess...

[ColdWetDog]

While I like the idea of compatible chargers, I suspect that this means that all of the existing chargers will suddenly become obsolete with the next generation of phones...

Nah, your iPhone charger will still work.

With your iPhone and nothing else, of course. I take it that Apple isn't part of this little bandwagon.

Re:Good, I guess...

[furby076]

I take it that Apple isn't part of this little bandwagon.

L2RTFA. They agreed to it.

Re:Good, I guess...

[ByOhTek]

From another article, Apple will be moving to the new format.

While you may have read TFA, you didn't read the post you replied to, or don't realize the iPhone isn't made by Nokia, but rather another company that likes using a lower-case 'i' in front of all of their product names.

iWonder who that would be?

Re:Good, I guess...

[nine-times]

Do people really throw away their old chargers?

I would suspect that if you're buying a new phone, old accessories tend to share the same fate as the phone. If you're throwing away the phone, you generally throw away the chargers, too. And why not? The new phone will come with a new charger. The only real exception I can see is if your new phone has the same charger and you want a second charger-- but then again, if you really need a second charger, you may have already bought a second charger for your old phone, still leaving you with an extra.

And so this is where the standardization comes into play: new phones won't be packaged with their own chargers. It will be an optional add-on, since the manufacturer can assume that you probably have an appropriate charger already. And even if you don't, it will be easy enough to find one. Because all phones will charge using the same port, compatible chargers will be sold everywhere.

Re:Good, I guess...

[TheRaven64]

Why on earth would you pay $20 for a charger? They cost around £5 on high-street shops here - less if you shop around a bit - which is under $8 at the current exchange rate. Any Nokia charger from the last 10 years or so will charge any modern Nokia phone (although you may need the tiny adaptor that is bundled with new phones if your charger is over 5 years old), so this will result in throwing away a lot of chargers, unless new phones come with adaptors.

Re:Good, I guess...

[Anonymous Coward]

The other requirement is for the new chargers to be more power efficient. A lot of the current ones are really cheap, and because people leave them plugged in all the time, they're leaking power. 2 billion of these around the world means a non-insignificant amount of power just being wasted.

And yes, competition will mean that they're easy to get hold of for a decent price. Or you can get the Monster edition "Monster Unified Charger".

I hope that the scope of this is expanded to include digital cameras and media players.

Re:Good, I guess...

[furby076]

Because the chargers you buy from the misc. vendors are typically cheaper in quality. They are not as tuned to the device and may send power surges which could damage your phone. They are also not as efficient and this turns out into more energy use. Not noticeable for one person, but take into consideration that millions of people use these devices and that adds up to wasted energy.

Think of your cell phone as your home computer (mine has important contact information, some pics, etc). Do you just plug your computer into the wall or do you use a surge protector (or even UPS device to prevent spikes/surges)? I use a nice UPS. I want my computer to not be damaged...I also don't want my phone to be damaged. I'd imagine someone who spent $500 on their iPhone GS want's to protect that investment too.

Re:Good, I guess...

[AlecC]

Not so, because of the change describe in the article. The Nokia 6500 has already switched to micro-USB. Not that it micro, not the mini that, for example, Motorola ue,

Re:Good, I guess...

[maxume]

You buy expensive chargers to 'save on energy' but have no issues with buying them to leave in different rooms of your house?

Above and in this comment for those not following:

http://mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1285749&cid=28515565

Re:Good, I guess...

[Pentium100]

It all depends...

The inefficiency would not be noticeable, especially for me.
As for the power surges it also depends. A USB charging cable is just that - a cable with two connectors. Yes, the cheaper one might be less durable, but if the price is right, it may be better that the expensive original one (depends on how many cheaper cables can you buy for the price on the expensive one). A charger that plugs into the 220V outlet is a bit different, but I can plug the cheaper one to my UPS and have it safe from the surges/spikes (in my are the most common problem with power is very short blackouts (~1s) and sags, I have seen a surge only once, and that happened when some criminals blew up a nearby 10kV->220/380V transformer (of course not the one that supplied the power to me).The result was that my TV somehow magnetized its tube and showed funny colors for a few days.

In any case, I am currently using a 220V->4.5V 500mA adapter (the non-SMPS kind) to charge my Nokia N93 with no problems.

Re:Good, I guess...

[harlows_monkeys]

I take it that Apple isn't part of this little bandwagon

If you aren't going to read the article, you should at least read the summary.

Micro

[pete-classic]

The story is incorrectly tagged miniusb. It's actually micro USB (which is an inferior connector, in my opinion) which is slightly smaller and lacks the "ears" of mini USB, which is what the Blackberry uses.

-Peter

Re:Micro

[dfxm]

MY BlackBerry (the Storm) uses the microUSB connector.

Re:Micro

[AlecC]

The micro-USB is superior to the mini-USB in that the springs which provide the retaining force are on the cable side and not on the phone side. If the spring breaks, you throw away the cable/charger, not the phone.

Re:Micro

[jeffmeden]

The story is incorrectly tagged miniusb. It's actually micro USB (which is an inferior connector, in my opinion) which is slightly smaller and lacks the "ears" of mini USB, which is what the Blackberry uses. (in my opinion)

-Peter

Fixed that for ya. New BlackBerry devices will use the micro-usb connection (some, like the Storm, already do).

Re:Micro

[Anonymous Coward]

The story is incorrectly tagged miniusb. It's actually micro USB (which is an inferior connector, in my opinion) which is slightly smaller and lacks the "ears" of mini USB, which is what the Blackberry uses.

It's true that Blackberry has used mini-usb for many many years, but since the Storm came out, all the new phones are micro-usb.

I find it very annoying, since I have 5-6 mini-usb chargers/cables, and they all work fine.

Re:Micro

[Phroggy]

You're an idiot. That wasn't an opinion. It was a statement of fact. It may be wrong (I don't care), but just because something is wrong doesn't mean it's an opinion.

It MUST be MiniUSB

[EkriirkE]

Otherwise you would need 2 adapters to plug into the wall and the computer at the same time. It only makes sense to use 1 connector to handle both -- and that is probably so obvious that it won't be done.

Re:It MUST be MiniUSB

[Kokuyo]

Why would you need two adaptors? I have a microUSB cable lying around here and it can't be much of a problem to make one that plugs into the wall-socket.

Re:It MUST be MiniUSB

[FTWinston]

I have a microUSB cable that plugs into the wall socket. I use it to charge my phone. Its not that crazy!

Douglas Adams would be delighted

[blutfink]

http://douglasadams.com/dna/980707-03-a.html

Re:Douglas Adams would be delighted

[michaelnz]

Although I'm sure Douglas Adams would be a somewhat happy with this development as it moves us in the right direction I think the thing that pissed him off the most was all the different electrical socket plugs the world has. There should be a standard 110-120v plug (probably go with North American) and a standard 220-240v plug (one that can fold in easily), and then a symbol that can be etched in to either plug to signal that the device supports being plugged in to either voltage. This would go a long ways for manufacturing costs and simplifying things for world travelers. Plus it would make Douglas Adams very very happy, whichever planet he's on.

Re:Douglas Adams would be delighted

[Jesus_666]

There is a standard 220-240 V plug. It's called IEC_60906-1. Unfortunately nobody bothers to adopt it.

Re:Douglas Adams would be delighted

[CyberDragon777]

Except Brazil.

 

Campbell, CA October 29, 2008 -- After decades of confusion and inconsistencies, the Brazilian government certification body, INMETRO (National Institute of Metrology, Standardization and Industrial Quality) has established a firm country-wide standard for power cord plug and receptacle specifications called NBR 14136.

This standard, based on the IEC 60906-1 International specification, is now the only acceptable power cord plug and receptacle standard for export to Brazil. This has a direct impact on manufacturers of products because âoeall products shipped to Brazil with a power cord must have that cord conform to the new standard and be formally INMETRO certifiedâ, says Ivo Landre, President of Signal and Power Delivery Systems.

Re:Douglas Adams would be delighted

[Jesus_666]

Actually, no. According to the German article, NBR 14136 is a derivative standard differing in the following ways:
- The pins are not 4.5 mm in diameter and the plug is not rated for 16 A. Instead there is a 10 A version with 4 mm pins and a 20 A version with 4.8 mm pins.
- The live and neutral pins can be uninsulated.
- There is a 14 mm thick plug for Class II devices, which can be put into Europlug receptacles. The only problem is that Europlug is only rated for 2.5 A.

So no, nobody implements IEC 60906-1 yet.

Batteries too...

[zebslash]

That would be nice to have a standard for Li-ion batteries too, from mobile phones to shavers and laptops. This way, it would be easier to recycle and replace batteries, lower costs and remove vendor-specific locks. I like alkaline batteries: around 4-5 different formats to power most of our stuff. With Li-ion, we have gained in power and time, but lost in flexibility. Is that so difficult to implement ?

Re:Batteries too...

[russotto]

That would be nice to have a standard for Li-ion batteries too, from mobile phones to shavers and laptops. This way, it would be easier to recycle and replace batteries, lower costs and remove vendor-specific locks. I like alkaline batteries: around 4-5 different formats to power most of our stuff. With Li-ion, we have gained in power and time, but lost in flexibility. Is that so difficult to implement ?

Lithium ion cells are standardized. Rebuilding the batteries by opening the casing and replacing the cells is often possible. But lithium-polymer cells are a different story; in order to use every bit of space inside the battery or device, the cells are shaped to fit it. So it really IS difficult to implement.

Re:Batteries too...

[kroyd]

Clearly the right answer to this is to buy a combined shaver and mobile phone! (http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.23065 is one example)

Sadly, so far the mobile phones with built in shaves have had two batteries, but they do seem to charge from USB.

Now, if only the shaverphone had wireless and ran say Android.. This is clearly a missed opportunity for the mobile phone makers.

Re:Batteries too...

[harlows_monkeys]

One of the tricks they use to get more battery life is to shape the battery to the available space in the device, which makes standardization difficult if you want maximal battery life.

Re:So what's it gonna be?

[furby076]

Maybe instead of just trying to get a first post in you read the damn article.

The Commission said the agreement would involve the creation of an EU norm, and that the new generation of mobile phones would use a standard micro-USB socket to ensure compatibility.

4th paragraph

Correction

[rickb928]

You mean the manufacturers will be able to make the charger an accessory.

At additional cost^H^H^H^Hprofit.

Saving the planet, one quarter's financial results at a time. I'm feeling all warm and fuzzy again, especially around my wallet.

Re:Correction

[oneirophrenos]

You mean the manufacturers will be able to make the charger an accessory.

Well, isn't that a good thing? What would be the logic of this agreement if the companies just continued supplying chargers with each phone?

Re:Correction

[hansamurai]

So you buy the accessory once (for dirt cheap because every cable manufacturer will be making them) and you're set.

Re:Correction

[rickb928]

It's a great thing. I can lay hands on at least 6 mini-USB chargters I've got laying around.

But will phone prices go down even $10 for those phones that ship without a charger?

And will we be able to tell?

?

Re:Correction

[Wisconsingod]

I'm feeling all warm and fuzzy again, especially around my wallet.

Be careful, that warm and fuzzy feeling is what you get when you're getting pickpocketed

Re:Correction

[rickb928]

You figured it out...

Re:So what's it gonna be?

[Jeoh]

From TFA: "The Commission said the agreement would involve the creation of an EU norm, and that the new generation of mobile phones would use a standard micro-USB socket to ensure compatibility."
 
Seriously, do people even RTFA any more?

Re:So what's it gonna be?

[Freetardo Jones]

read the damn article.

Hahaha. You must be new here.

Those EUROS! Lol

[Anonymous Coward]

Those Euros think they are so smart making their chargers standard. Nonsense I'd say! Bell Tech Support told me once that they HAVE to make special chargers that I have to buy or replace for each phone. These of course were made with HIGH quality materials and so cost a heck of a lot more. So how are they going to charge their phones with a "standard" charger? Bell said they're the right ones on the TV on their pretty advertisement.

RTFA

[Anonymous Coward]

It's Micro USB

Re:So what's it gonna be?

[Freetardo Jones]

Seriously, do people even RTFA any more?

People have ever RTFA? Have you been reading a bizarro Slashdot all these years?

Good!

[zebslash]

My girlfriend and me have both a Sony-Ericson phone, bought 3 years apart. Guess what ? Both chargers and connectors are proprietary, fragile, weird and different! Of course if you lose it you'll have to spend an arm to get a replacement.

However this will only work if vendors give the option NOT to get a new charger with a new phone. Otherwise, this will not be really useful.

Re:Good!

[Freultwah]

I don't know about the cost of your limbs. I've had to replace at least 4 SE chargers and I never paid any more than 4 euros for the item.

Re:Good!

[Anonymous Coward]

Think your making stuff up, I have the charger from my T610 that will charge my K850i (it might not do the high speed usb access, but it will charge it)

Re:Good!

[nosferatu1001]

they changed charger a couple years back - similar looking but different pin outs.

Re:Good!

[rthomanek]

My girlfriend and me have both a Sony-Ericson phone, bought 3 years apart. Guess what ? Both chargers and connectors are proprietary, fragile, weird and different! Of course if you lose it you'll have to spend an arm to get a replacement.

While I am more than happy to have the proprietary chargers replaced by a common standard, the statement above contains at least misinformation, if not ill will.

I've been using Ericsson phones since nearly 15 years now. For the better part of it, they had one standard of charging port. Some three years ago they decided to change it to a new standard. Yes, both were proprietary, but neither of them was weird nor fragile (they are not as trivial as a simple jack is but you quickly come to appreciate their actual solution when you notice it is just the right balance between stiffness/ stability of the connection and the protection from doing damage to either the port or the connector).

And no, they are not expensive to get. New chargers on Ebay cost some 3 EUR, if you are afraid they are not "genuine" you can go to a phone dealer and get one for twice as much (my estimate, given the cost of other accessories from SE).

Re:Good!

[Anonymous Coward]

However this will only work if vendors give the option NOT to get a new charger with a new phone.

Of course they'll give that option. I'd bet they make it standard practise that new phones ship with no charger. But that won't bring down the price of new phones, the phone manufacturers will just happily keep the money they would have otherwise spent on packaging a charger with the phone :)

Re:Good!

[Anonymous Coward]

Sony Ericsson changed chargers when the platform changed and required a different voltage. Whichever one of you has the older one has one from 4 or 5 years ago, which was the switch.

Re:Good!

[coxymla]

The old style SE power connector on my T610 definitely counted as 'fragile'. I don't know if the problem was with the charger plug or the phone socket, but if you so much as looked at it funny after plugging it in then the connection would break.

Re:Good!

[Kalriath]

Quit whining until you've seen Nokia's latest innovation in phone charging.

A 1.5MM thick round DC plug! Yay!

Breathe in its general direction and it breaks. Plug it in 20 times and it starts suffering metal fatigue.

Sure beats eating!

[Anonymous Coward]

I wish I could power up with a cell phone charger. Europeans are so lucky.

Standard Charges?

[ArhcAngel]

Man, I knew that headline was too good to be true.

Thanks EU regulation

[slb]

A good exemple that sometimes the market is unable to find the most optimal solution and someone has to regulate.

Re:Thanks EU regulation

[inviolet]

A good exemple that sometimes the market is unable to find the most optimal solution and someone has to regulate.

In the circumstance of a market unable to stabilize on an efficient solution, regulation may be jumping the gun, because it teaches consumers that they need not vote with their wallets... which means that eventually, all market inefficiencies will require regulation, with its attendant costs.

In any case, I think what really happened here is the total space of possible connector geometries and pinouts has finally been exhausted. MBAs have driven the engineers to invent ever different connectors, and this year they reached the point where every practical shape had been done and patented. So now they're signing up for standardization, professing their unwavering commitment to the welfare of their customers.

It reminds of the sudden change-of-heart that every pharma company has at the end of a patent, when they spontaneously decide that their medication is, after all, safe for OTC dispensation.

Re:Thanks EU regulation

[Tony Hoyle]

The market at least in the EU had already pretty much standardised on USB charging.. every non-nokia phone I've had used it. Nokia of course had to be different, but there's only 2 nokia charging standards and adapters are readily available (and since ~70% of the phones you see around are Nokias, it's a sort of standard).

What this does is codify what was already happening.

Re:Thanks EU regulation

[joebok]

Actually, the market IS working in the environment that exists - that it, it is taking full advantage of the fact that the cell phone charging industry does not bear the external cost of disposing of perfectly good chargers every time we get a new device. We need the regulation to push that external cost to be part of the product - then market forces will adjust.

Rather than a universal charger designed by committee and consensus, I'd rather see regulation aimed directly at closing off the externality. Like maybe requiring cell phone companies to accept old charges back for a credit. Or not being allowed to package a charger along with the phone - make the consumer buy them separately. I think something along those lines would have the same effect, getting better, cheaper, and universal chargers with minimal overhead.

But either way, I sure hope it spills over to the US - and to other devices. If I have a device that needs 5v, seems like I should only need a transformer of the proper rating - not a random connector as well.

Re:Thanks EU regulation

[teg]

A good exemple that sometimes the market is unable to find the most optimal solution and someone has to regulate.

While I agree that some regulation is necessary - among other things to maintain healthy competition and free markets - they didn't actually regulate it. They hinted that they might, so the vendors found a solution themselves instead. A gentle, but firm, push in the right direction.

Re:Thanks EU regulation

[Dionysus]

New Nokia is using microUSB

Re:Thanks EU regulation

[Luthair]

Voting with your wallet only works if you have a viable option, and rarely is one actually available to the consumer. While a companies might have the buying power to push the individual rarely does which is why regulation is often necessary to solve this type of issue.

Re:Thanks EU regulation

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, I got this idea that sometimes the market puts itself in a local maximum and that regulation can be required or, more subtly, used as a threat to push it to a higher one.

Example: this case. Every phone vendor makes a mint selling chargers, but this is not an efficient allocation of resources. The good bit is that you can imagine that if 80% of phones start shipping with a standard connector, customers will start returning phones that unexpectedly use a different one, and the market will reassert itself.

Example: roaming charges. The EU threw a fit about intra-union roaming charges. Of course the operators were making nice money charging companies big money. Consumers, OTOH, quickly learned to not use their phone while on holiday. The paradox is that the operator would make *more* money if they had lower charges and people used the service, but as long as people can trust that it won't cost them an arm and a leg, they won't, so in the meantime the operators' revenue will be lower.

Example: CFL, LED and the Bulb bans. Right now CFLs have several disadvantages over good'ole incandescent. They're more expensive to buy (yes, yes, they're cheaper over their lifetime, whatever, customers don't care), they have a non-instant startup time, and so on. LEDs have others. It's a catch-22: manufacturers don't have an incentive to invest loads of money to make them better and cheaper to produce because they don't make many of them, but as long as they're more expensive and not as good, customers won't buy them. Put out a regulation, wait for the prices to drop and the good to improve. I bet in 5 years time the regulation can be dropped and nobody will buy an incandescent.

Re:Thanks EU regulation

[itsme1234]

The market at least in the EU had already pretty much standardised on USB charging.. every non-nokia phone I've had used it. Nokia of course had to be different, but there's only 2 nokia charging standards and adapters are readily available (and since ~70% of the phones you see around are Nokias, it's a sort of standard).

What this does is codify what was already happening.

In what world is this already happening?! We bought at the office recently two Nokia, two Sony-Ericsson and one Samsung. They are beyond craziness with respect to connectors.

- both Nokias have the "standard Nokia" thin connector that doesn't comply to ANY reasonable electric standard so you can't just connect it directly to USB or any power supply of any reasonable parameters. Specifications here: http://www.forum.nokia.com/info/sw.nokia.com/id/3378ff2b-4016-42b9-9118-d59e4313a521/Nokia_2-mm_DC_Charging_Interface_Specification_v1_2_en.pdf.html
- one Nokia HAS a standard mini (or micro?) USB connector but it won't charge over it
- the other Nokia has a USB connector that LOOKS like mini but it doesn't fit anything but a specific Nokia cable. It still doesn't charge over it
- both S-E are equally crazy. You need to connect the headphones to the bottom of the phone via a proprietary connector! This is where power and USB cable also go! Still they would charge over USB but you need the proprietary cable and you need to have the proper drivers in the OS (yes, to charge). Because everything connects there you have interesting combinations like you can't charge when listening to the headphones or you can't listen to the radio while charging (because radio needs the headphones plugged in for antenna)
- Samsung has some kind of crazy flat connector, did not take a close look but certainly not USB of any kind
- for S-E and Samsung the old chargers don't fit the new phones.

I see this as a BIG MOVE for Europe.

Re:Thanks EU regulation

[polar red]

Voting with your wallet only works

There is not much you can vote on with your wallet. It is a fable for gullible fools aka consumers.

Re:Thanks EU regulation

[polar red]

the reason for this : consumers are much less powerful than the corporations; pricing is approaching zero elasticity due to this.

Re:Thanks EU regulation

[polar red]

finally a step in the right direction : countries telling companies what to do, not the other way around.

Re:Thanks EU regulation

[badfish99]

Actually, they are not signing up for standardization at all. Instead, the Chinese government has forced it on them by law, and they don't want the extra cost of making different phones for the European and Chinese markets.

What is being cynically presented by the EU as a fine example of manufacturers voluntarily cooperating with the European regulators is simply due to the manufacturers being forced into this by the Chinese.

Re:Thanks EU regulation

[master811]

- both S-E are equally crazy. You need to connect the headphones to the bottom of the phone via a proprietary connector! This is where power and USB cable also go! Still they would charge over USB but you need the proprietary cable and you need to have the proper drivers in the OS (yes, to charge). Because everything connects there you have interesting combinations like you can't charge when listening to the headphones or you can't listen to the radio while charging (because radio needs the headphones plugged in for antenna)

Wrong! The Sony Ericsson charger's 'fastport' adaptor has both a male (to plug into the phone) and a female (for accessories like headsets) connection. One at each end, so you can listen to music whilst it is charging very easily.

Re:Thanks EU regulation

[itsme1234]

Wrong! The Sony Ericsson charger's 'fastport' adaptor has both a male (to plug into the phone) and a female (for accessories like headsets) connection. One at each end, so you can listen to music whilst it is charging very easily.

The fact that you can buy some stuff that can let you listen to your headphones while charging (you can even make one yourself with duct tape and scissors) doesn't prove anything. Worst case scenario you could buy an iPod shuffle and then you can charge your phone while listening to music. This is not the point. Simply using "can" and "adaptor" together makes *you* wrong.

Re:Thanks EU regulation

[master811]

No, the chargers which come with the Sony Ericssons do this, you don't have to 'buy' anything.

And if I didn't make it clear before the charger's fastport adaptor literally fits inbetween the headset adaptor and the phone itself.

Re:Thanks EU regulation

[itsme1234]

Maybe, some (I haven't seen any, ever). Those two I mentioned came with CST-60: http://www.sonyericsson.com/cws/products/accessories/overview/cst-60?lc=en&cc=us (ignore the US plug). I can imagine what you're talking about but if you look at the plug you see this can't work the way you're claiming to work (well maybe if you "use the force"). Actually there are three accessories coming with the phone (stereo headset, charger and USB cable). None have this feature you're taking about, although I've seen some probably useful adapters on ebay. But again simply mentioning ADAPTERS makes me right as my point was that they just don't work in a specific case. Having to use adapters is the whole point, if they would be working you won't be needing adaptors.

Re:Thanks EU regulation

[jbssm]

because it teaches consumers that they need not vote with their wallets... which means that eventually, all market inefficiencies will require regulation, with its attendant costs.

This teaches consumers they should vote at the bailout in the elections. Sorry for the reality check, but voting with your wallet simply doesn't work when it comes to such big companies. Want an example: eBay ! They keep pushing sellers around with obscene policies (which are the ones that pay them), but sellers cannot do anything about it. Thankfully that cannot push us as far as non EU countries (like Australia where PayPal is mandatory), since we have market regulations (they cannot oblige us to use their banking services, so they were not able to do the same in UK).

Same goes for mobile companies charges. Starting this Wednesday, maximum price per SMS while roaming will be 0,11 Euros + VAT, instead of the 0,50 to 0,80 Euros they where asking before and why? Roaming market is small, no companies rely on roaming users to give their bulk income, so they can just push us around since they know we don't really have an alternative company to turn to ... so, here it comes regulation, a good thing.

Another example, air fare prices. Until about one year ago (like I think it happens in most of the world), the companies just advertises the ticket without any taxes and charges ... results, you saw lots of 1 Euro flights that ended up at 50 Euros when you actually had to pay ... what could you do about it? Nothing! All the companies did it! So, the EU commission ended up that practice, so now you can actually compare the real costs of flights and choose the cheapest one for you.

The list goes on and on. Practically all the Europeans are for market regulation as long as it's done in a reasonable way. In the end, it always ends up benefiting the costumer.

Re:Thanks EU regulation

[Anonymous Coward]

That approach tends to be most effective when the possibility of regulation is real.

It doesn't work if the industry knows that they can effectively prevent regulation.

Re:Thanks EU regulation

[remmelt]

- both Nokias have the "standard Nokia" thin connector that doesn't comply to ANY reasonable electric standard so you can't just connect it directly to USB or any power supply of any reasonable parameters. Specifications here: http://www.forum.nokia.com/info/sw.nokia.com/id/3378ff2b-4016-42b9-9118-d59e4313a521/Nokia_2-mm_DC_Charging_Interface_Specification_v1_2_en.pdf.html

http://www.walrus.com/~raphael/html/usb_charge.html Still shitty, but not quite as bad as you make it sound. I really disliked the fact that my last Nokia (6300, otherwise a fine phone) had a standard mini-usb (good!) but wouldn't charge over it (bad!)

Anyway, Nokia h as been pretty good so far because they only have two standards, even if they aren't a standard outside of Nokia's phones. Every charger fitted every phone, up until recently. The newer small plugs have a different size but are still the same charger. I've always thought that makes perfect sense, both for the customer and for Nokia.

Anyway, glad to see Europe's pushing this standard. I do hear it's only for data phones though:

The chargers will be usable only for data-enabled phones, which have more capability than just standard calls and SMS texts. Data-enabled phones are expected to account for almost half of all new mobile handset purchases in 2010.

The Commission hopes that as people discard their old handsets, within three to four years all data-enabled phones in Europe will be using standardized chargers.

http://www.macrumors.com/2009/06/29/apple-to-adopt-micro-usb-connectors-for-iphone-charging-in-europe/

Re:Thanks EU regulation

[itsme1234]

This "diode" trick is working only because many (most? some?) USB ports limit the current close to the specifications (500 mA). If you take a look at the pdf I posted you'll see that in all modes the charger is supposed to actually adjust (drop) the voltage at certain currents. If you have one of the more powerfull USB ports the phone will say "Not charging". Yes, there's a message that says that... And the motherboards with such powerfull ports are actually what you're looking for normally because you can power your external hard drive or whatever USB powered gizmo you have easily without overloading the port.

For people who have only one-two devices and they're Nokia it's fine (when you upgrade you don't have to buy car charger, etc) but when you start having more stuff that charges over this cylindrical connectors you get pissed because it's very hard to find one of these "universal" chargers with the right tip (impossible in my experience with the small tip) and even if you find it you need to add at least one resistor if you want to charge a nokia with it (and even so it's not sure).

The "data" restriction I don't think it's so big. All phones I had for the last years had bluetooth, (shitty) browser, (shitty) camera, some kind of internal memory or flash card and could act as modems. They were also the variety of phones you forget at the pub and when you return it's still there.

Re:Thanks EU regulation

[Lamieur]

A good exemple that sometimes the market is unable to find the most optimal solution and someone has to regulate.

Actually, if there were no patents, free market would produce a standard by this time. Smaller manufacturers would make their devices compatible with chargers that people already have, from big companies, most probably Nokia.

But in reality, noone is permitted to use the same connector because they'd have lawyers on their back. So the tiny players started to use standard mini-USB, because they aren't in business of selling chargers.

Take patents aside and see the market work. Until then, your mention of market being unable to do things is true. But reacting with regulation is hiding, not resolving the main problem.

Re:So what's it gonna be?

[furby076]

Hahaha. You must be new here.

;) Just sometimes feel like an old man holding out for an ideal age where people read the article (or at least admit they didn't). Then again I still hold out for the day skittles will pop sunshine out of my ass.

So...

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

Any word on whether or not they'll be adding a cryptographic handshake that will lock the chargers down harder than connector swapping ever did?

They could even adopt a wireless commerce model: "The charger you have connected is not an official 'Motorola by Verizon' brand charger. Press 'OK' to activate the charger for a payment of $29.95 or purchase an official charger." With cellphone location services, you could even do location based selective lockouts! "I'm sorry, your charger is authorized for home use only. Please subscribe to our 'Home and Business' charger plan or, for travellers, 'National Omnicharge Premium' for just $19.95 a month."

Ah, evil.

Re:So...

[Hurricane78]

Believe me. The EU would sue them to hell for this. They will pull a Microsoft punishment on them.

Re:So...

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

I would certainly hope so; but having been burned already by Motorola's not-quite-so-standard mini-USB port(though that was some simple resistor based lockout, not a sophisticated crypto setup), I don't really trust the cell guys much.

Re:So...

[Splab]

No they wont.

1. Making that would be stupidly pricey.
2. It would go against the point of making this, you look at it the wrong way around. If everyone has a standard charger, that means no one needs a new charger with each phone, which means phones drop in price, which means higher handset turnover.

This is good news for the telecoms since they get a new chance at signing a customer.

Re:So...

[powerlord]

Which is a good example of why I will not get a Motorola phone, or get cell phone service from Verizon (despite how much I want all those people from the adverts to follow me around~).

Most other cell phones are "good enough" in my area, and I'd rather go with T-mobile who don't lock their phones to Kingdom Come just to force you to buy more services from them.

Re:So...

[karnal]

I wanted to actually complain about this setup as well. Friend of mine was out of town visiting on business and forgot his travel charger. Hooked his motorola up to my laptop to get it charged up.

It wouldn't charge. Not without having software installed on the laptop. In addition, it wouldn't take a charge from my standard HTC charger. Given, my charger can supply 1a @ 5v (for a Fuze) but a device will only take as much power as needed - presenting the availability of more amperage to a circuit doesn't damage it, it's the voltage....

Anyways, what a crock of crap to have to have something as silly as a standard port to charge from and then artificially lock it out. That right there is why I'll never buy another Motorola, and I've had plenty throughout my cell phone career. It's either HTC or Nokia from now on.

Re:So...

[Gnavpot]

Anyways, what a crock of crap to have to have something as silly as a standard port to charge from and then artificially lock it out. That right there is why I'll never buy another Motorola, and I've had plenty throughout my cell phone career. It's either HTC or Nokia from now on.

You will find this on older HTC phones too. I have a SPV C500, which is a HTC Typhoon from before HTC started selling phones in their own name. It has exactly the same behaviour as you described, including the inability to charge from a PC with no Activesync software installed.

However, the most stupid use of mini USB I have ever seen is the Holux GR236 Bluetooth GPS. The mini USB port does not speak USB. It speaks good old serial. So when you connect it to a PC for charging, you will get error messages all the time that the USB device seems to be malfunctioning.

Ironically, if you want it to actually communicate to the PC, you will need a USB-serial adapter with USB connectors in both ends.

Re:So...

[Andy Dodd]

Not really Motorola's fault.

Drawing more than 100 mA without negotiating a host connection is verboten by USB
Drawing more than 500 mA from a USB host is verboten

So "dumb chargers" that supply 100 mA to a device need some method of signaling this. Unfortunately, the USB Battery Charging Specification was released way too late in the game, after a number of "de facto" standards (most based on using pin 4 of the mini-USB connector) cropped up, with the typical difference being resistor values.

Motorola/BlackBerry: 220k or 440k to ground depending on charger current rating
HTC: Dead short to ground
Garmin: 17k to ground for 1A, dead short for 500 mA

Re:So...

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh, you mean the "you've been bad, please give us an insignificant piece of the cake at your convenience" punishment? I wouldn't be surprised if they ignored the issue entirely just because there are more companies to target.

Everonmentalism I can agree with

[alta]

I'm no environ-nut. I don't bend over backwards to save the earth. But I do make a change when something 'makes sense.'

A prius? Value isn't there. High up-front costs, low performance. I think not.

E-85? Lower energy output than gasoline. Starving people that depend on Corn. Did you know that last year the Mexicans had a shortage of corn products. Do you know they use a LOT more corn than we (US-IANS) do .Glad we're past that.

On the other hand:
CFL - A time and a place. I leave our front porch lights on at night, and a few others for security. I put in CFLs to save a little money. They run all night and I don't need them instantly, so the warm up time doesn't bother me. I tried them in a closet... No way. I'm done in the closet before they warm up. They make all of my clothes look blue so I can't figure out which pants are which. And I'll be damned if I ever put them in the kids room. HIGH chance of broken bulb. Mercury/Carpet/Kids don't mix.

LED bulbs... I can't wait (till they're under $5.) Instant-on, LOW wattage, user-selectable colors. The US may as well skip mandating CFL because LED is where we're going.

Other Hybrids... Before long, NASCAR is going to see that there's some way to make this hybrid stuff make cars go faster and farther without a pit-stop... There are four industries here that drive new tech for the consumer. Military, NASA, Nascar and pr0n.

And all my devices on the same plug? GREAT. Less waste will hopefully mean less cost for me. Sure the manufacturers are going to eat most of that money as profit. But, if it means that I don't have to worry about buying a $30 car charger from ATT, I can just use a generic one for $5. Plus I can have a charger in the car, a charger at home and one at the office. I'll never have to worry about being without my iPhone cable again. At a neighbor's house? Good, their's is the same.

Re:Everonmentalism I can agree with

[Xtravar]

On the other hand:
CFL - A time and a place. I leave our front porch lights on at night, and a few others for security. I put in CFLs to save a little money. They run all night and I don't need them instantly, so the warm up time doesn't bother me.

This is a bit off-topic, but I find that my CFLs burn out quite often in the outside light fixtures. Or in any fixtures that aren't completely open air. So I'm kind of interested in how you're handling that. The bulbs say they have a 5 year warranty, but then they burn out in 3 months. I don't have the patience to actually send them in to the company, though.

Re:Everonmentalism I can agree with

[Anonymous Coward]

Off topic so I posted AC to keep it at 0.

I have most of my house converted to accept CFL or even the long tubes. Some last longer than others but I've had good luck on my outside porch light, at least 3 years average of running about 8 hours a day. I even have some outdoor CFL floodlghts that have lasted several years, they are a regular CFL inside a sealed floodlight enclosure. I've bought many Feit or Fiet brand ones form Costco and those have been hit or miss and last well below average and one even sparked and smoked so maybe the brand you are buying makes more of a difference then the physical placement?

Re:Everonmentalism I can agree with

[alta]

I haven't really had any problems with the CFLs in the outside fixtures. They're pretty standard gas-light looking fixtures, light mounts in the same direction it would in a lamp, not like it would in a closet. surrounded on 4 sides with thin panes of glass, metal frame on top.

If it matters, I'm in Mobile, Alabama. The climate ranges from 101F/90% Humidity, down to 25F... I've done this in my old house and the one I just bought. In the old house I just had them in for 2 years before I moved.

This brings up another situation where I use CFLs, anywhere where it's very difficult to change the bulb because of height or a difficult fixture.

So, has anyone found a CFL that doesn't have a 30-second warm up time? I just had cheap ones from wal-mart, but they could have been GE for all I know.

Re:Everonmentalism I can agree with

[hattig]

Mercury/Carpet/Kids don't mix.

Yeah, if they were to drink a visible quantity of it.

Not the wisp of mercury vapour in a CFL.

Still, whilst I use CFLs a lot, I'm waiting for LED and OLED panel lighting solutions, they will be awesome.

--
Slashdot requires you to wait between each successful posting of a comment to allow everyone a fair chance at posting a comment.
It's been 14 minutes since you last successfully posted a comment

FUCK YOU.

Re:Everonmentalism I can agree with

[jhoger]

A prius? Value isn't there. High up-front costs, low performance. I think not.

Well, maybe the value isn't there for you. But in California, when I bought mine we got carpool (HOV) lane access. That is the main reason I bought the car. It was shaving about a 1/2 hour per weekday off my commute which allowed me to get to night classes on time, and when school was out, I got to spend that 1/2 hour with my family.

I don't know what the performance thing is about... it's not a drag racer, but it isn't like it's scary to merge into traffic which in Southern California is the important thing. Unless you drive like a jerk, speed is a function of the surrounding traffic, not the car itself. For many people higher gas mileage is a more important measure of performance once the basics like "acceleration to merge" are covered.

And the car is roomier than one would expect

But today the calculus would be different and I probably wouldn't buy one, because of no carpool lane stickers.

Re:Everonmentalism I can agree with

[mini me]

Starving people that depend on Corn.

- Corn is in such abundance that we have to pack it into things like soft drinks just to get rid of the stuff.

- The digestible compounds of the kernel just so happens to not be the parts that are useful for creating fuel. This means that you can extract the ethanol and then eat the byproduct.

- Ethanol is typically extracted from No. 2 yellow corn. Good eats for animals such as cattle, but it's not the same kind of corn found at your local grocery store.

Corn-based ethanol may have it's flaws, but running out of corn for humans to eat is not one of them.

Re:Everonmentalism I can agree with

[Xtravar]

That's weird. I live in WI, which doesn't get too hot. I assume it's the ballast overheating because they usually have burnt marks at the base, and it seems to happen more in smaller fixtures. It also used to happen much more frequently, so maybe this is a problem they have been solving.

For what it's worth, I'm using the GE Wal-Mart 100 watt equivalent 'cool white' CFLs throughout my house and outdoors. (Not such a fan of 'warm white' - people have said my house feels like a hospital.) Anyway, I don't really notice the 'warm-up' times with them. It could be that I'm just used to it.

Re:Everonmentalism I can agree with

[alta]

http://venturebeat.com/2007/01/15/ethanol-use-causing-corn-shortages-spiking-price-price-of-tortillas/

Well, I haven't done the direct research myself, I just know what I've read.

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/2006-07-10-ethanol-study_x.htm

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB119258870811261613.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/05/business/05ethanol.html
http://www.heartland.org/policybot/results/20947/Biotech_to_Ease_EthanolRelated_Corn_Shortage.html

And to further your argument (again, I'm more interested in the truth than being right)
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/may/10/ethanol-as-cause-of-food-crisis-flat-out-wrong/
http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f81/definitive-proof-ethanol-not-creating-food-corn-shortage-61448/

Re:Everonmentalism I can agree with

[alta]

I see your point. I was under the impression that it was much more mercury. Like a 'drop' worth.

http://www.energystar.gov/ia/partners/promotions/change_light/downloads/Fact_Sheet_Mercury.pdf

So, not too much to worry about, although I still think a plastic LED is going to be a better fit here than a CFL or incandescent.

Re:Everonmentalism I can agree with

[Anonymous Coward]

NASCAR driving new tech for the consumer? Really dude? I mean.... Really? You couldn't have chosen Formula or Le Mans or WRC or any racing series that actually innovates new technology?

I'll give you-- 750 HP out of a pushrod engine with no forced induction is pretty impressive, but pretty much anything NASCAR is going to "give back" to consumers happened in the 1960s.

Re:Everonmentalism I can agree with

[richlv]

I don't have the patience to actually send them in to the company, though.

you just explained why they burn out in 3 months

Re:Everonmentalism I can agree with

[compro01]

E-85 - Ethanol is pointless without forced induction, but with it, it crushes gasoline, as you can ramp up the boost and thus the efficiency, enough that you can match milage. And there's lots more sources than corn (which sucks profoundly) like sugar cane and sugar beets, the latter would grow GREAT in most of the US. And it'll be even better when/if we figure out cellulose ethanol.

Re:Everonmentalism I can agree with

[swb]

Outside is where I have the best luck! I run a half-dozen for external lighting and they all work fine, some running 12+ hours a day, all surviving -20F without any problems.

Inside, CFLs make me crazy. Some fixtures they burn out in constantly, others they work fine, for no apparent reason. I use them if the fixture allows, but in some places it doesn't work (dimmables suck, and quite a large number of existing and even new fixtures are too fucking small).

The best part is up-lamping a fixture to a "100w equivilent" where it normally would only support 60w. Since they consume less power than a 60, you don't have to worry about a fire (just fit!).

Re:Everonmentalism I can agree with

[gspear]

Other Hybrids... Before long, NASCAR is going to see that there's some way to make this hybrid stuff make cars go faster and farther without a pit-stop... There are four industries here that drive new tech for the consumer. Military, NASA, Nascar and pr0n.

KERS (Kinetic Energy Recovery System) was introduced to Formula 1 this year. A few teams have tried it but It hasn't been that successful yet.

Re:Everonmentalism I can agree with

[alta]

Yeah, it was this that gave me the idea for the post. I'd heard something about KERS in passing but couldn't remember what it was. I guess my point of the whole post was, there's a time and a place for being green, but it's not when the gubment mandates. The only people that benefits are the politicians and the PAC's that fund them.

Gore doesn't want to save the world. He wants to get richer selling offsets. Give me a break.

Re:Everonmentalism I can agree with

[Vegeta99]

What's your karma, buddy? I've never had to wait more than two minutes!

Re:Everonmentalism I can agree with

[Anonymous Coward]

NASCAR most certainly will not. The very name is ironic: there is nothing stock about NASCAR vehicles, due to their history as disguised speed demons for booze smuggling. From their tube frames (no crumple zones. But.. it seems to work out pretty well for them. Why don't the car bodies they're designed after feature that?) to their carbureted engines (none of the models they mock are carbureted any more), to their painted-on "headlights." They don't even have wipers; they just have a few layers of plastic film they tear off if it gets hard to see.

Also, NASCAR is mainly about endurance, which is exactly the regime in which hybrids make no sense: there are two engines in a hybrid, but the electric engine is a performance boost for acceleration only. During cruising, the best you can hope for is for it not to draw power from the gas engine.

We've long past the point where advances on the NASCAR circuit are likely to result in real world improvements.

Re:Everonmentalism I can agree with

[Andy Dodd]

Any signs of corrosion?

While AL has the humidity, depending on your proximity to the local roads, road salt could be a factor?

Re:Everonmentalism I can agree with

[hattig]

It's "Excellent". Maybe it's because I turned off adverts.

Of course I turned off the new dynamic thread thingy after getting so frustrated with the slowness, poor rendering, a situation where it would only load a random selection of posts for the comment level you had selected (you had to reclick around 100 times to get all of the posts at that level), etc. Maybe that counted against me, going against the flow, the desires of the Slashdot meisters.

Re:Everonmentalism I can agree with

[ingulsrud]

So, leaving your porch lights on all night is where the "everon" in the title comes from?

A prius? Value isn't there. High up-front costs, low performance. I think not.

The Prius blows away just about every other gasoline powered vehicle available today in the highest up-front cost performance factor in history: Emissions. Extremely low emissions is the best reason to get a Prius, especially if you live in an area with a high incidence of respiratory disease amongst children.

Other Hybrids... Before long, NASCAR is going to see that there's some way to make this hybrid stuff make cars go faster and farther without a pit-stop... There are four industries here that drive new tech for the consumer. Military, NASA, Nascar and pr0n.

Toyota and others put electric motors in their SUV drivetrains for the acceleration performance enhancement (peak torque available at zero RPM) as much as the eco-branding. No, NASCAR is not going to be the primary race format to develop this technology, unless they start adding a lot more road courses that actually require the use of brakes.

I'll never have to worry about being without my iPhone cable again. At a neighbor's house? Good, their's is the same.

USB was already becoming the de-facto power port for low power devices like mobile phones, especially in the form of AC adapters and battery packs with the ubiquitous USB Type A receptacle. The new EU standard enforces USB power negotiation (thus the "data phone" mandate), but I'd bet real money that Apple bundles a dock connector-to-microUSB adapter instead of polluting the iPhone enclosure with an extra port, and continues shipping a version of its Type A receptacle AC adapter updated to comply with the new EU mandate.

Re:Everonmentalism I can agree with

[Philip_the_physicist]

And there's lots more sources than corn

Corn-based ethanol should be flavoured with juniper and reserved for human consumption!

Re:Everonmentalism I can agree with

[FTWinston]

30 seconds? :( Mine are more like 5, and they were pretty damn cheap. No idea who made them though, and I'm too lazy to climb up and look for a manufacturer. UKian btw.

Re:Everonmentalism I can agree with

[corrie]

There are CFLs specifically for outdoor use. they even work in the rain.

The problem you're experiencing, I suspect, is more due to the light fixtures themselves.

Sure, why not...

[dvh.tosomja]

It will be a standard equipment of electric car, right?

The original post

[buchner.johannes]

press release and a memo.

Most interesting parts:

Incompatibility of chargers for mobile phones is a major inconvenience for users and also leads to unnecessary waste. Therefore, the Commission has requested industry to come forward with a voluntary commitment to solve this problem so as to avoid legislation.

and

Industry commits to provide chargers compatibility on the basis of the Micro-USB connector. Once the commitment becomes effective, it will be possible to charge data-enabled mobile phones from any charger compatible with the common specifications.

My Favorite Part...

[Anonymous Coward]

..is how even if it's a standard plug (mini or micro USB) they tweek the phone so it won't accept a standard USB cable rather you get the "Unauthorized Charger" message. Good for the EU... I wish the US consumer protection agencies would step up on issues like this that would make a difference.

Re:My Favorite Part...

[Andy Dodd]

Not enough details, but I'm guessing that since the USB Battery Charging Specification is now out, they'll follow that.

Prior to release of that spec (long after many of the "de facto" dumb charging conventions were out), methods for indicating a dumb charger to a USB device were not standardized. Pulling more than 100 mA from a dumb charger without some way of identifying it as such is forbidden by the USB specification. Since "dumb charger" signaling wasn't standardized until way too late in the game (at least for mini-USB), we wound up with lots of different methods of signaling "dumb chargers".

Any traction on this issue in the USA?

[bogaboga]

Is there anything like this in these United States of America? I will not be surprised if there is none.

Why? Because such a thing would be tantamount to "limiting our freedoms." We do the same thing in the Linux space.

God damned liberal communists

[meist3r]

Limiting the free market 'n shit ...

Re:God damned liberal communists

[zhilla2]

Nothing like good ol' time vendor lock-in! Now let me just replace my dying generic proprietary hardware stuff by paying my vendor outrageous sums of money! Whoops. Seems like company moved to a place called Narnia and accepts only calls made though their proprietary DRM enabled inter dimensional subconscious interface.

Hardly

[ArchieBunker]

Apparently you've never seen a place called Ebay. You can get a wall and car charger together for under $10 including shipping.

Re:Hardly

[rickb928]

You missed my point. It's not about having a charger or not. It's the joy of wondering if I will be saving any money on my next phone purchase.

I already have plenty of left-over chargers. You're assuming I need one? That's the point of the EU rule - we have all kinds of lefover chargers.

ps- Many of the eBay chargers are crap. I need a $10 charger frying my $400 phone?

Mini-USB Lockin, there are ways

[0100010001010011]

My Motorola phone has a standard mini-usb connector but you STILL can't use it with standard charger. Why? "Un authorized charger".

From what I've pieced together it has a chip in it to fake that it is connected to a computer. This is a double edged sword of uselessness

1) I can't use my Garmin charger with my phone because it's "un authorized" and won't charge.
2) I can't use my Motorola charger with my Garmin because Garmin puts itself into PC mode (instead of navigation mode).

So now I have to carry 2 - 12V -> USB devices with me because of Motorola.

Trust me, keep an eye out for the buzz words "authentic" "valid" "safe" "genuine".

Re:Mini-USB Lockin, there are ways

[Hal_Porter]

So now I have to carry 2 - 12V -> USB devices with me because of Motorola.

Rebel! Stand up and FIGHT your oppressors! Go and protest outside Motorola's HQ!

Re:Mini-USB Lockin, there are ways

[Anonymous Coward]

What the fuck are you even reading this article for if that's your dumb-ass attitude? Go back to posting YouTube comments where you belong.

Re:Mini-USB Lockin, there are ways

[h4rr4r]

There is no chip it just puts a little voltage on the data lines. Just take a usb extender and splice one in.

Re:Mini-USB Lockin, there are ways

[Anonymous Coward]

You might be able to modify your Garmin charger to work with the Motorola by adding a resistor. You could even do the mod in a USB extension cable.

Re:Mini-USB Lockin, there are ways

[stuffeh]

You must have verizon.

Re:Mini-USB Lockin, there are ways

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't know about you, but I'm charging my motorolla here with my mp3 player's connector because I lost the charger.

Maybe it is because I connected it to my Ubuntu machine? We all know Ubuntu ships with everything but the kitchen sink, wouldn't surprise me if they had a special case for Motorola phones

Re:Mini-USB Lockin, there are ways

[Anonymous Coward]

My Motorola came with a simple 2-wire mini-usb charger and will charge off anything that provides 5v at sufficient current. Admittedly I got it in China and the charger looks like it was intended for the European market.

Re:So what's it gonna be?

[Forge]

RTFA It will be Mini-USB. However there are 2 issues still to clarify. 1. Will the phone be required to charge at the standard voltages delivered by a PC USB port? I would hate to see that BS achieved by Motorola, where you can only charge on a PC if the Motorola Charger is installed. I would prefer if everyone else has to change to match Blackberry. If my Blackberry runs low in the data center I can just plug into any exposed USB port on a powered up server. . A Dell waiting at the BIOS screen or a SUN in full production. 2. Will this be coordinated with the Chinese standard? If both the EU and China agree on a standard, India and Japan can be convinced to adopt it. Leaving America to figure out which direction it wants to go.

Apple?

[nsteinme]

Does this mean that (future) iPhones in Europe will have to switch from Apple's beloved dock connector? That is quite significant for them. Also might they standardize all their connectors and thereby bring this exciting new change to the U.S.?

Re:Apple?

[Tony Hoyle]

The dock connector already accepts USB charging.. they just need to produce an adapter cable - which knowing apple will be an optional accessory costing arm+leg.

Re:Apple?

[Jesus_666]

They'll probably just change the dock to contain a Micro-USB plug instead of the one Apple currently uses. That would be the cheapest way to go about it and fulfill the spec.

Re:So what's it gonna be?

[Forge]

RTFA
It will be Mini-USB. However there are 2 issues still to clarify.

1. Will the phone be required to charge at the standard voltages delivered by a PC USB port? I would hate to see that BS achieved by Motorola, where you can only charge on a PC if the Motorola Charger is installed. I would prefer if everyone else has to change to match Blackberry. If my Blackberry runs low in the data center I can just plug into any exposed USB port on a powered up server. . A Dell waiting at the BIOS screen or a SUN in full production.

2. Will this be coordinated with the Chinese standard? If both the EU and China agree on a standard, India and Japan can be convinced to adopt it. Leaving America to figure out which direction it wants to go.

meanwhile, when I switched from my Razr to my G1..

[Laebshade]

I switched from my Razr to my G1 and was able to keep all my chargers. All my data cables worked, too. Even though the HTC G1 uses the proprietary Ext USB connector, it is backwards compatible with mini-USB connectors. 1 charger and data cable at work, 2 chargers and a data cable at home, and 1 data cable to carry in my bag. I wish more vendors were like Motorola and HTC.

Unfortunately, my new stereo bluetooh Lubix headset has a microUSB charger. Damn.

Re:So what's it gonna be?

[Anonymous Coward]

win.

With regard to the iPhone

[Midnight Thunder]

Apple indicates while it won't drop its connector, it will enable adaptors to be made:

http://www.techradar.com/news/phone-and-communications/mobile-phones/apple-won-t-drop-dock-connector-for-micro-usb-612103

Considering that it already connects to USB sockets, then all that is needed is a USB - micro-USB adaptor.

The only question is whether USB power plugs will be made 'smarter', since there are still some that won't charge certain telephones for what ever reason.

Re:With regard to the iPhone

[PitaBred]

The only ones I've run into that won't charge certain phones are Motorola chargers. Screw Motorola. I will not buy another thing from them, and I encourage everyone I know to do the same.

Cutting costs for consumers

[zhilla2]

I work at a small company ( 200 workers) and there is always a box with bunch of working mobile phones with dead chargers. Or working chargers from long dead mobile phones - all being kept for "pairing" - so until a match pops up, it's a box full of junk. If this was mandatory 10 years ago, we would have definitely saved some money. And have -1 box of junk. Oh and standard batteries would also rock. Of course, at least 3-4 standard types would be necessary due to different phone forms, but still much better than this proprietary mess. And that's just the financial/practical side. Don't get me started on the ecological side :)

Micro is superior for this use...

[nweaver]

MiniUSB is rated for 1000 connect/disconnect cycles

MicroUSB is rated for 10,000 connect/disconnect cycles, and is also thinner by about 1.5mm (critical on modern thin devices).

Given the power consumption on some smartphones, having the more durable connector is IMO, essential.

Re:Micro is superior for this use...

[pete-classic]

That's very interesting (and persuasive). I had a media player that used Micro-USB and I didn't care for it at the time.

According to the Wikipedia article on USB the cycle life of Mini-USB (and USB A) is only 500, but they agree with your 10k figure for Micro-USB.

Anyway, I no longer have any Micro-USB devices, but I'll look for 'em in the future!

-Peter

Re:Micro is superior for this use...

[Anonymous Coward]

MiniUSB is rated for 1000 connect/disconnect cycles
MicroUSB is rated for 10,000 connect/disconnect cycles, and is also thinner by about 1.5mm

MiniUSB is already widely deployed and incorporated into lots of devices and chargers.

MicroUSB will require us to buy another goddamn version of everything (lather, rinse, repeat once USB3.0 comes along).

Re:Micro is superior for this use...

[QuantumRiff]

And MicroUSB gets the joy of having to double check the orientation of the plug, every time you plug the darn thing in. It does not "slide right in" as nicely as the standard or Mini USB. My old phone had one, and it was a pain in the rear. My new phone has a MiniUSB, and I can plug it in in the dark.

Re:Micro is superior for this use...

[mlts]

What I wonder about is how this will hold up come USB 3.0 and the devices that come with that. The MicroUSB connector has the new connections used for the 3.0 spec added on to the right, making the connector more than twice as wide. From what I see, there isn't a mini USB spec for 3.0 yet.

Hopefully the micro USB cable has the abilities to last the same large amount of insert and release cycles as the current spec.

Re:So what's it gonna be?

[gatechman]

Yeah that mess really gets me mad. I've noticed though that the drivers in Ubuntu (at least in 8.10) allow me to charge my Motorola phone whenever I plug it into the USB port. Personally, I'd like to strangle the engineers who thought it was a good idea to require some sort of authentication to charge.

Why stop at phones?

[dfxm]

I like that my PS3 controller uses mini USB for charging. I can even charge it right from my MacBook! There are a lot of things that can be recharged, and as things get more wireless, it's going to become more important.

Sony, Apple and Standard in the same line?

[WarwickRyan]

Sorry, can't believe that. The only standard they ever follow are their own.

They're so only going to use the same plug but put the charging ability in software/hardware to force you to buy their accessories. Like they both already do (but with their own connectors).

Re:Sony, Apple and Standard in the same line?

[rgviza]

Either that or an iGo adapter. I've had the same charger through 3 phones. I just get a new tip at Radio Shack for $10 instead of a new charger for $39.99. While not a universal solution (because you need to get a new tip sometimes) at least I'm not paying for a $40+ wall wart that will be useless in a year or two.

And yes it works with the iPhone 3G S. Don't know about the motorola phones... My last phone used mini usb, which other devices can use (GPS puck and Sansa Clip), so I didn't waste money on that one. I suppose the GPS puck will come in handy if I need to track a lost iPhone down with my laptop :-p

Charger efficiency

[MobyDisk]

Once they do this, I hope someone makes an efficient multi-charger.

I collect wall warts. Some are 15 years old, and I can confirm that they got smaller over time. But what strikes me most is the Apple's transformers are often half the size (or less) of other transformers at the same power. It seems silly to me to have dozens of these things clustered onto one power strip, all with varying size, efficiency, and quality. It would be better to have one highly efficient transformer with multiple plugs, that could charge multiple devices.

Perhaps this decision is the first step toward achieving this.

Re:Charger efficiency

[cdrguru]

Most AC adapters these days are switching mode power supplies - no transformer at all. So, no a single transformer would not be more efficient than multiple switching power supplies. A single larger switching power supply is likely going to consume more power than a number of smaller ones unless the thing is operating at full load most of the time.

Re:Charger efficiency

[MobyDisk]

I guess I wasn't using "transformer" in the technical sense. I meant it as "the thing that transforms voltages" regardless of the technology.

A single larger switching power supply is likely going to consume more power than a number of smaller ones unless the thing is operating at full load most of the time.

Then why do we constantly see articles about data centers trying to eliminate the power supplies, and run low voltage lines? I thought the idea was to save power.

*bicycle* chargers

[Dystopian Rebel]

The manufacturers of mobile telephones need to take environmental responsibility. A standard connector for AC charging is a step in the right direction. This should make it easier to develop a standard mobile telephone charger for bicycles.

Re:So what's it gonna be?

[Forge]

Ultimate responsibility lies with Motorola's CEO. The purpose is real simple. Do you want people buying a $5 generic charger or a $25 genuine charger?

If you want to be more clear. Both chargers cost around the same amount to make.

Induction chargers

[gilesjuk]

Induction chargers are the solution, you don't need any sockets.

Plus you can just place multiple items on it.

Three cheers for government regulation!

[quax]

C'mon market fetishist mod me down!

Part of the USB Spec

[pavon]

This is part of the USB spec. Originally USB hosts were only required to provide a certain amount of current to devices. Later they decided to increase this, but to provide backwards compatibility the device has to ask if the host is capable of sourcing that much current before it starts drawing it.

Re:Part of the USB Spec

[Andy Dodd]

And for dumb chargers, the USB Battery Charging Specification was released so late in the game that there were already "de facto" standards for signaling a dumb charger to a device.

Apple does it with funky resistors between the data and power lines, allowing it to be done without any extra pins.

Motorola, BlackBerry, Garmin, HTC, and probably TomTom all do it using pin 4 of the mini-USB connector (which is defined as not connected).

Moto/BB use, if I recall correctly, a 220k resistor to ground for "fast" chargers and 440k for "slow" (but faster than a host) chargers
Garmin uses 17k for "fast" chargers (1A) and a direct short to ground for "slow" chargers (500 mA)
HTC just shorts to ground for any dumb charger

No DRM, no "funky chip", and it's not done to sell chargers - it's done because drawing over 100 mA without a host negotiation or signaling of a dumb charger and over 500 mA without somehow determining the presence of a "dumb charger" is verboten.

Newer devices tie the two data lines to each other with a 200 ohm resistor on the charging end (USB battery charging specificiation) - Most likely all of the micro-USB devices do it this way, partly because pin 4 actually has meaning for micro-USB connectors (part of the USB OTG standard).

i'm a bit startled...

[Anonymous Coward]

I can remember an article posted on /. a year ago or something like that, saying that "the EU is considering to force a standard for cellphone chargers" and if memory serves me right, most of the posts there were ridiculing that idea, because
      + companies know best what is good for their customers (or is it their own pockets?)
      + free market!!!
      + regulation is bad
      + oh, those European socialists
      + whatever reason

And now most comments are positive or at least neutral. What happened?

Well, whatever changed your minds, welcome to sanity.

Re:i'm a bit startled...

[polar red]

What happened?

the banking crisis: now 'mericans can see the good of market regulation.

Just to be pedantic

[CrashandDie]

But if it's in Europe, then it should be "Mobile phone".

Only for data enabled phones

[farmerj]

From the article:

The chargers will be usable only for data-enabled phones, which have more capability than just standard calls and SMS texts. Data-enabled phones are expected to account for almost half of all new mobile handset purchases in 2010.

So while definitely a move in the right direction it looks like it's only going to effect around half of the mobile phones sold in Europe initially.
I would expect this proportion to increase as smart phones move down into the lower cost markets though.

It's also not as big a jump for the manufactures this way as most of the smart phones already use some type of usb connection (mini or micro) so it shouldn't require a complete change of designs and tooling.

Re:Only for data enabled phones

[djupedal]

This only follows on the heals of the 2007 mandate out of Beijing that all cell phone chargers manuf. in/for domestic use after July 2008 would need to use the same connector. The EU didn't have much of a choice, and only gets credit for towing the line.

Re:So what's it gonna be?

[OrangeTide]

America will use the same charger standard when the chips for power and charging based on that standard become super cheap. Which will be the case a year or so after the standard is adopted.

There is a lot more to it than just having a micro-USB connector (people say mini-USB, but they clearly did not RTFA). A lot of us in consumer electronics, especially mobile devices tend to do crazy things with charging. Like run the USB ports at 6V+ when charging. Or have special resistors shorted over the data lines to detect a "carkit" versus a PC. When you charge on a PC you have to negotiate with the PC on being able to draw more than a 100 mA before negoiation (which you have a short period to indicate the amount of load you actually wish to draw before being shut off by some hosts). The maximum of 500mA is not really enough for good fast charging of beefier mobile devices (like some GPS units and book readers), so the chargers that come with it almost always provide a lot more power.

Re:So what's it gonna be?

[Anonymous Coward]

I did read. It said MICRO-USB...

Not MINI USB...

Which sucks since I've strategically purchased virtually everything I buy based on using the same Mini-USB cable for charging and connectivity.

Micro-USB really isn't THAT much smaller!

Re:So what's it gonna be?

[R0UTE]

Maybe on the newest Blackberry's that is true but certainly not on my Blackberry 8320. I have to use the bcharge app on Linux or whatever the software is that comes with windows in order to charge mine.

Horror!

[Kostya]

Forcing companies to standardize?!? Will no one think of the innovation? Who's protecting the innocent innovation from being preyed upon?

Re:Horror!

[Capt.DrumkenBum]

"Who's protecting the innocent innovation from being preyed upon?"

Microsoft of course.

http://www.microsoft.com/freedomtoinnovate/

How does this Ensure Compatibility?

[Slashdot Parent]

How does this ensure compatibility if the manufacturers don't agree to follow the USB spec? Having a micro-usb plug doesn't mean anything if the device doesn't follow the spec.

For instance, the spec says the USB port must provide 500 mA to the device. But my Palm Pre draws 1000 mA over the micro-USB port. If memory serves, blackberries draw 850 mA.

So what good is standardizing only on the plug, when what's going over the wire is nonstandard?

Re:How does this Ensure Compatibility?

[bami]

Add to that, when their usb implementation is properly following spec, the maximum draw is 100 mA when connected, and then must do a software handshake to get the full 500 mA. That can only be done by either installing the drivers (Nokia Suite is a large wad of rubbish), or having the drivers come with the OS (bloat bloat bloat). So unless you always charge at your own PC (which, on trips, is not something you do a lot, unless you happen to carry your laptop everywhere), you get a sucky 100 mA from the wall, or they are ignoring the spec (which means, stick another phone on it using another variation of the spec, things can go poof by overcharging).

Since the USB spec doesn't allow a whole lot of power, you'd need more charging time. My E71 can draw 800 mA at 5 Volts, so my 1.5 Ah 3.7 volt battery is full in ~1.4 hours, while at 500 mA around 2.2 hours, or at 100 mA around 11.1 hours. Not something you're willing to do every night in some hotel, especially with power-sucking smartphones that die within a couple of hours/days.

Sure, everybody charging their phones on the same connector is fun and all, but my Nokia charger is around 4 cc, and you get one with a new phone any ways. My dad and mom both have Nokia phones (My mom has an older model with the larger socket, but a simple €5 adapter works great), and many people do, so it's never a problem to charge your phone when you don't have your own charger around.

I'll have my standard nokia charger please, and add to that, I'm not that fond of the micro-usb connector. It feels a bit flimsy.

Re:How does this Ensure Compatibility?

[Andy Dodd]

Not enough detail in the article, but most likely by following the USB Battery Charging Specification. (Which was, unfortunately, released long after numerous "de facto" standards for signaling dumb chargers became prolific, most of which involve tying mini-USB pin 4 to ground with varying amounts of resistance. This can't be done in micro-USB, as micro-USB has specified meaning for pin 4.)

Does your Pre draw 1000 mA from a computer, or from a "dumb charger" that signals itself as such?

Re:So what's it gonna be?

[cowbutt]

China mandated micro-USB charging sockets in December 2006, so the EU is just falling in line. Yawn.

Re:So what's it gonna be?

[MattXBlack]

When this came up first time round I emailed Günter Verheugen, Vice President of the European Commission and in charge of this. One of his staff replied after a few weeks (in TIF format, usefully). This is hastily retyped, so spelling mistakes are likely mine.

... You observe that phones have non-standard connectors and therefore require special cables to be connected to computers. A standardised charger requires a standard plug. I expect that this standard plug would not just be used for charging, but also for connecting to computers. The issue will therefore be addressed in parallel. ...

So it seems they are aware of the issue and 'addressing' it. I'm interpreting 'expect' in the sense of 'England expects every man to do his duty' rather than 'I expect it'll be alright'.

Now you need a firewall for the charger.

[Animats]

The trouble with charging through a USB connector is that it's also a USB port. Most phones aren't well-protected against attacks via the USB port. With a common charger interface, you're going to find charger outlets everywhere. Some of them will be hostile.

So now you need a cable that only passes power. But that may not be enough. Motorola RAZR phones, for example, won't charge on PCs unless the Motorola driver is present to do the handshake. By default,a USB port will deliver at least 100mA, but if asked, it may deliver up to 500mA. Laptops actively manage USB power; desktop systems often don't bother.

So you may need a data connection, which opens up a whole new range of attacks on phones. Which means you may sometimes need a "firewall", a device which does the USB handshake and requests 500mA, then delivers it over a cable with no data wires.

This has been possible for a while, but with standardization, we'll have outlet strips with USB ports all over the place, in cafes, on aircraft, in cars, etc.

Re:Now you need a firewall for the charger.

[Anonymous Coward]

A "dummy barrier"? Where have I heard this term before?

Re:Now you need a firewall for the charger.

[Nikademus]

Motorola RAZR phones, for example, won't charge on PCs unless the Motorola driver is present to do the handshake.

This only happens on windows, if you are running whatever other OS (Solaris, Linux, OpenBSD, MacOSX), it will charge on USB without any supplementary driver of any kind.

Re:Now you need a firewall for the charger.

[Jesus_666]

This has been possible for a while, but with standardization, we'll have outlet strips with USB ports all over the place, in cafes, on aircraft, in cars, etc.

Actually not really, I'd expect. A USB port in a public place just asks for someone to stick a bit of gum in it - a regular wall socket doesn't quite garner that kind of attention as few people like to stick their fingers inside those. On airplanes you'll find the same sockets you find now. I see no reason to install USB ports just because one can charge their phone over those - notebooks do well with airplane power adapters so why not phones? Standardized chargers mean that the adapters become interchangable and cheap. Besides, if you plug in your notebook you can charge over that. And the only USB plug in a car you're going to use is that in your own car (or a leased one). I doubt that someone will go through the trouble of infecting car computers with mobile phone viruses; that just screams "high risk, low potential profit".

Besides, there's still a simple barrier to USB viruses - pairing. When you connect the phone to a USB host you need to tell the phone (by physically entering it) that you wish to establish data connections with that host. Prior to that the phone will not accept any data and just charge via the USB Battery Charging specification (= the host will not even be able to tell it's a phone).

Re:Now you need a firewall for the charger.

[Anonymous Coward]

Duh,
Idiot,
How can it do the current-request handshake with NO DATAÂWIRES.

Why is it that the rest of the world is NOTICING how your educational system works NOT!

Re:So what's it gonna be?

[MightyYar]

I would hate to see that BS achieved by Motorola, where you can only charge on a PC if the Motorola Charger is installed.

While I suppose Motorola could have allowed the phone to be charged with the standard USB current of 100 mA. However, you can get a charge approximately 5x faster by installing the driver and getting the full 500 mA, so I'd wager that Motorola requires the driver for user experience reasons. My Sony-Ericsson charger puts out 450mA and my wife's Samsung puts out 700mA.

And on your second point, I doubt the US will take any action at all. We'll get phones either with the EU or the Chinese standard simply because the manufacturers won't want to make too many versions. Plus, they'll probably use the standard as an excuse to stop bundling chargers.

Re:So what's it gonna be?

[reboot246]

Why should we read articles before we comment on them? Congress doesn't read bills before they vote on them. By golly, it's the American way! :)

"Dumb phones" exempt?

[FrostDust]

The chargers will be usable only for data-enabled phones... Data-enabled phones are expected to account for almost half of all new mobile handset purchases in 2010.

New data-enabled phones will come with a standardized charger

What's up with this? Is there something about MicroUSB that requires a phone with a data plan?

The only thin I can think of is that this is a a way out for manufacturers, so that they can keep costs down on bargain phones by manufacturing them with cheaper chargers and connectors.

i'm startled...

[Anonymous Coward]

I remember a similar article posted on /., when the EU first announced, that it wanted to force a standard for cellphone chargers, a year ago or something like that. If memory serves me right most of the posts back then ridiculed this idea, giving reasons like
      + companies know best what is good for their customers (or is their very own pockets?)
      + free market!!!
      + regulation is bad
      + (fill in your own reasons)

And now most posts are positive or neutral? What the hell happened to the land of the free?
Well, whatever it was, welcome to sanity!

Re:So what's it gonna be?

[Kadagan AU]

2. Will this be coordinated with the Chinese standard? If both the EU and China agree on a standard, India and Japan can be convinced to adopt it. Leaving America to figure out which direction it wants to go.

If the metric system vs. SAE is any gauge, we'll use our own thing.

Re:So what's it gonna be?

[fooslacker]

If my Blackberry runs low in the data center I can just plug into any exposed USB port on a powered up server. . A Dell waiting at the BIOS screen or a SUN in full production.

Would you mind plugging my BlackBerry into one of your production servers please? ;)

Now, if only...

[XB-70]

...If only we could get the douche-pail carriers to standardize their rate 'plans' so that we could compare apples to apples. It would feel a smidgen less painful when they jamb yet another ridiculously overpriced contract up our dangerously dilated and sorry asses.

I have been feeling for a long time that the issue is not the vendors or the carriers. The issue is with our elected representatives. When was the last time your political party said: "Hey! Bank charges are usurious. Phone plans are completely lop-sided in favour of the vendor. Consumers should be able to re-sell Windows licenses. Chrysler should make a transmission that still functions after only 100,000 fucking kms."

..and when was the last time OUR representatives actually did something about it??

Don't get me wrong. I'm not one of those sanctimonious Subaru-driving, Jesus-boot wearing tree-huggers - much the opposite. I was brought up on a wild mix of Big tits, V8's, heavy metal, Pimm's #3 and polo matches. I believe strongly in hard work paying off. Wealth creation is a GOOD thing. It's how our society moves forward.

What I'm bitching about is that the deals need to be fair. A monopoly should be a license to make money, not print it. Don't pay your cell bill, the telco cuts you off - plain and simple. But, if your call drops, the fucking call should be free! Buy a machine with Vista on it and pay M$ as much as they figure they can charge you. But M$ should be accountable for the terrible software they wrote and give you a refund if you ask for it.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

USB standard -- a dodge at best

[swb]

Will they standardize on the interface and how its used, though?

For example, my iPhone, as much as I love it, could be claimed to be "USB standard" for power. It comes with a wall brick with a USB-A female jack. The gotcha is the proprietary Apple dock connector cable with a USB-A male end on it. IMHO, this is a standards dodge, even if it is mildly helpful in terms of sourcing power without carrying the brick, too.

If USB is going to be a standard, the device itself needs a female USB jack (micro-B seems to be the new standard standard they're heading towards) usable on its own, WITHOUT the $25 proprietary vendor cable to interface with USB. Vendors can keep including their own proprietary interfaces, too, but it's not really a standard unless the device includes a standard connector.

We also need to avoid the bullshit where the "standard" interface has a cable with a bunch of embedded logic (whether analog or digital) that makes it *look* standard but doesn't actually work with a standard cable.

My guess is vendors will never give up the guilty lock-in pleasures of their nonstandard connectors or the revenue they get from selling $2 cables for $25.

Re:So what's it gonna be?

[Your Pal Dave]

China mandated micro-USB charging sockets in December 2006, so the EU is just falling in line. Yawn.

And South Korea did so a year earlier.

Maybe with EU on board we'll see handsets for the US market meeting the standard without having to wait forever while the US carriers get their shit together.

Re:So what's it gonna be?

[Anonymous Coward]

As much as most people don't want to hear, a usb device is not allowed more than 1 unit of power(each port can deliver 5 units), unless it asks for more and it is granted this change. MOST usb devices do not follow this spec.

Re:So what's it gonna be?

[polar red]

it's the American way!

lead the path, we europeans will follow !

hahha

[pwolf]

So here I am, at work. My phone dies and I need a charger. we have all kinds of phones and not a single one has the same samsung connector... NOT EVEN THE ONE SAMSUNG PHONE I WAS ABLE TO FIND! Too bad I don't live in the EU... but atleast this might make them go standard in all regions.

Re:So what's it gonna be?

[Piranhaa]

Micro has double's mini usb's connect-disconnect cycle, putting it to 10,000 versus the mini's 5,000.

Re:So what's it gonna be?

[supernova_hq]

Or you can just use an Operating System that knows how to properly handle a USB port.

I have never needed to install a driver in Ubuntu in order to charge my phone at full power.

We're the telephone company

[jonaskoelker]

Ah, evil.

We don't need to be evil, we're the telephone com... wait!

What was that line again?

Re:So what's it gonna be?

[DinDaddy]

+1 if I had any

Re:So what's it gonna be?

[reboot246]

It will be the blind leading the blind . . . . into oblivion!
Oh, such a jolly good time it will be.

Where is HTC?

[bjoeg]

Sad they are not in the agreement since they too are a big player in the market, especially when we talk about the business market.

And in my mind the answer for the standard charger would be HTC's ExtUSB. How come? It is nifty USB charger, and their phones get charged by regular USB as well.
Plus a whole lot more like head set, adapters and so forth

ExtUSB specification

Re:So what's it gonna be?

[nido]

where you can only charge on a PC if the Motorola Charger is installed.

You mean driver, right? My Motorola phone charges on Windows just fine with the driver and a standard mini-usb cable, and it charges on FreeBSD 7.x without any special software.

Re:So what's it gonna be?

[hao3]

it's the American way!

lead the path, we europeans will follow !

yes, all european politicians read all the text of the bills they vote on. and there is no corruption whatsoever. or demagoguery.. /sarcasm>

Re:So what's it gonna be?

[Ihmhi]

Günter Verheugen

I don't think you could pronounce that name without ripping out your tongue.

Re:So what's it gonna be?

[haeger]

Hey, at least you'll have the progressive countries of Myanmar and Liberia as your allies.

Re:So what's it gonna be?

[MightyYar]

I think that the USB spec calls for the OS to supply only 100 mA until a device is identified. Windows is doing the right thing, having no idea what you've just plugged in.

Perhaps newer versions of Linux have Motorola phone support built-in? Because if it releases the high current without recognizing the device, that's a bug.

Damn !

[32771]

I just offered my dad to solder a fancy golden SMA connector to his cell phone for this purpose. Finally something solid looking. Since you guys like WLAN routers with detacheable antennas so much they aren't even the most expensive anymore. Besides, they go from DC to 4GHz, so why shouldn't I.

I might even decide on an efficient 48 Volts low voltage device home standard. Unfortunately the industry hasn't come my way yet, but they will figure this out some time soon.

Re:So what's it gonna be?

[Anonymous Coward]

This should have a sub moderation because "Sadly-Insightful" is soooo appropriate here :\

Micro USB sucks as a standard

[Fjan11]

It's also a good example of regulators asking industry for a solution will not find an optimal solution:

• Micro USB is only 5V and 500mA, that's just enough to power a phone but not useful for the next generation of fast charging batteries (the iPhone charger is 1000mA already)
• You have 20 charger in your house, only a very small part will be able to make do with this, so it is not universal at all
• USB is not certified to be used in wet environments like the kitchen or bathroom, another class of devices out the window
• It's not very user friendly, elder people need reading glasses to plug it in the right way up
• The connector is about 10 times more expensive than a simple 2 or 3 prong jobby

There are multi-voltage adapters available that adress all of the above problems, albeit they cost 50 cents more to produce, so the phone suppliers went for the cheap option.

Re:So what's it gonna be?

[Forge]

No.

I have no idea what kind of @#$% is configured on *your* Blackberry. I do this with mine because I know what's on it will not bother any of my machines.

Don't take this personally. I also won't let you touch the KVM console in my data center ontil I know you can be trusted to not issue

# rm -rf ~/* C:\> DELTREE c:\WINDOWS

or any other destructive command.

Re:So what's it gonna be?

[Forge]

Now you tell me.

At least it didn't go too far. The guys in the emergency room should be able to stitch it back in. I hope.

Re:So what's it gonna be?

[Forge]

Yes. I mean Driver. I think there is a bug in my Language Processor.

Re:So what's it gonna be?

[fooslacker]

Well you seemed to have gotten the general gist of my question yet missed the fact I was joking. ;)

Re:So what's it gonna be?

[Forge]

Awe contrair.

I did get the joke. Sometimes a straight answer to a funny question makes the question funnier :)
# rm -rf ~/*
C:\> DELTREE c:\WINDOWS
?
Cracks me up every time.

Re:So what's it gonna be?

[fooslacker]

Your sense of humor must be too sophisticated for me. ;)

Re:So what's it gonna be?

[Forge]

nahh... I'm just crazy.

Re:meanwhile, when I switched from my Razr to my G

[n17ikh]

I wish more vendors were like Motorola and HTC.

No, you don't. Motorola locks down their phones so they will only charge on Motorola (or motorola-clone) chargers. If you plug a Moto phone into a standard mini-USB charger, it'll give you an "unauthorized charger" message. Go ahead and try it with the charger that came with the G1 - that's what it'll tell you. Same deal if you try and plug it into a computer without the Motorola drivers (which they want to charge money for) installed. Thankfully, the G1 and other HTC phones don't give a damn what kind of charger you have them plugged into, and will even ignore the non-standard resistor on pin 4 in Motorola chargers. HTC does its own non-standard thing on pin 4, but in this case it's just to tell the phone it can pull a full amp from the charger for a faster charge.

Re:meanwhile, when I switched from my Razr to my G

[Laebshade]

Your experience is completely different than mine. All of my mini-usb chargers/data cables I used on my Razr work with my G1 and vice versa. Every last one of them. One wall charger and one data cable at work: used them on my Razr until I got my G1. Both work with my G1 - yes, it actually charges it. Two wall chargers and a data cable at home. One wall charger was an extra Motorola-labeled one I had, the other came with the G1. I have a mini-usb data cable I've had for about 5 years that works with my Razr and my G1.

Motorola does not lock their stuff down. Cell carriers do that.