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Netbooks Have a Huge Impact On the PC Industry
Xbm360 writes "A report from researcher Canalys said 13.5 million netbooks were sold globally in the 1st half of 2009. Telecom companies have several bundling deals, with about 50 operators selling netbooks. The success of netbooks also surprised Microsoft & forced them to lower the prices of their XP Home licenses, to regain marketshare over Linux."
You don't need the latest CPU or graphics chip when all you do online is watch porn.
A netbook does fine, heck you can even hold it up with one hand while keeping the other busy!
...."After trying everything else short of rape at gunpoint, thousands of geeks SUICIDAL after discovering that owning a Netbook will indeed NOT get them laid."
I'm tempted to classify this as a slashvertisement. I'm currently a major university and I've yet to see anyone with a netbook in any of my classes.
And the masses cried out, "09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0!"
I wouldn't have stated it that way, but I agree... people are realizing the race for powerful chips now exceeds the necessity of most people by magnitudes; most people just want to stay in touch and have access to the web. Even the usual word processing and home finance applications, which few average-Joes actually even use anyway, don't require squat for processing.
There was a netbook on display at Sam's Club that had a "is a netbook right for me" app running on it, so I took the test... the first question is if it was going to be your primary computer, and I said "yes," which ended the test with "this isn't powerful enough for your main computer, and the keyboard and display are too small!!!"
When I use a laptop as my "main" computer I don't like the keyboard or display, either... both external. Same thing I'd do with a netbook. I don't see the problem.
Stupid, sexy Flanders.
Add a port for a SIM card and with Bluetooth support they might have something even more people would want.
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TFA is one of those that have a big photo, very little text, and is continued on page 2 (of how many I don't know; I refuse to slog through sites like this).
Free Martian Whores!
I bought a 9" model with linux earlier this year.
Soon after, the linux models dried up, then the prices rose and the screen size crept up.
I should have bought 6 at Jan 2009 price. Baring a change of architecture which increases the battery life 5 fold, I conciser it to be perfect.
It doesn't need any more power because it does everything that I want from a computer the size of a hardback book.
I have talked to several people that own or have owned netbooks. Most of the people don't like them. One person in general got a netbook from there husband. He got it since it was the cheapest thing he could buy. She hates it with a passion, but it does sorta what she wants just slowly. If I had to guess this type of story could be repeated over and over again. It was the cheapest thing so it was purchased even though the person that actually has to use it doesn't like it.
So we have a story about a press release about a report by some unknown company. Big deal.
This is an important subject, though. The big issues are 1) will "netbooks" wipe out the notebook industry, 2) will "netbooks" become slaves to mobile phone companies, like handsets, 3) will Microsoft succeed in enforcing their ceiling on how powerful a netbook can get. The story addresses none of those issues.
The fascinating thing, and one that cries out for some good journalism, is how effectively Microsoft squashed the Linux netbook industry. The first netbooks all ran Linux. Eighteen months later, it's very hard to buy a Linux netbook. How did Microsoft get Chinese consumer electronics manufacturers to pay for a OS when they had successful products with a free one?
My Aspire One running ubuntu is just great thanks. Cost me 250 loonies. Best of all, it's 8" screen means I can manipulate it almost like a medium sized book. I can kick back on the couch, at a table, on the subway, where ever and twist and turn it as needed. I stick with the SSD drive because I it affords me even less worry about jostling it around. With wifi and 10/100 built in, how could anyone go without one. $250 bucks, you can't afford not to own one. Best tech toy to come down the pike ever.
ideopath @ play
So.. netbooks are about 10% of pc sales and carry a margin of next to zero. They are a niche product for those who want a small device for convenience and will see growth stunted as the eekonomy recovers as those who couldn't afford a desk top replacement laptop abandon the cheap netbook segment for low/mid end full sized/powered laptops.
I never thought I would buy a low powered, limited usefulness netbook. But with prices having fallen under $300, this makes these devices quite appealing as a second/third computer, or just as a plaything.
I ordered mine on Saturday.
If I were God, wouldn't I protect my churches from acts of me?
Actually, an Atom N270/N280 has a pretty hard time playing back Flash video... so online porn isn't actually all that accessible on netbooks.
"The succes of Netbooks also surprised Microsoft & forced them to lower the prices of their XP home licenses, ro regain marketshare over Linux."
It is our hope that one day linux apps will be advanced enough to include a spelling checker.
Also... "Citation Needed".
"According to the latest predictions global notebook shipements are expected to reach 200 million units in 2010, of which, netbooks will account for 25%, or 50 million units."
You know, I'd expect at least a couple of these words to be a hyperlink to some source that actually shows who predicted it, or how they arrived at the numbers, but there's nothing.
Who approved this article? Has the bar really dropped this low?
It seems there are two reasons that netbooks are attractive. The size and the cost. I'd venture that the ideal is a convergence of high-end features such as SSD and OLED with low cost. In a few years we could be looking at a complete convergence between laptop and netbook that offers an affordable, appliance-like experience without compromising functionality. Combine SSD and OLED with highly efficient processing and state of the art battery technology and all of a sudden you have a device that can run on battery all day long. Imagine a portable computing platform that has a screen visible in direct sunlight that doesn't constantly blow hot air on your left thigh. I honestly believe that this is a converging category over the course of the next two to three years, where the end product is far better than either end of the spectrum we have available today.
Maybe, maybe not. My netbook stutters a bit on high res youtube videos, and it stutters a good deal on HD h264 videos.
Netbooks are not that bad of an idea. Most people only need a computer to just hope on the internet for a while. For me, I already have an expensive laptop and a great desktop, so there is really no point for me to buy netbooks.
When Microsoft was pushing Vista one of the things that they claimed was that the number of available XP product keys had become exhausted. Due to this they decided to remove the SKU from OEM vendors and other retailers, and set support services end dates. Their claim was that since they couldn't issue any more XP product keys you needed to upgrade to Vista instead.
Linux had begun a fast rise in the netbook market and this alarmed Microsoft to the degree that they decided to issue more product keys. This should have negated their argument about the necessity of upgrading to Vista.
There were questions that Microsoft had manufacturers modify the bios of their new models to exclude necessary information that allowed the installation of drivers for hardware (on computer models, not necessarily including the netbooks). This came out in a number of articles and in one case someone showed that the bios of certain machines had some important tables removed pertaining to Linux, making it difficult to install, etc.
The netbook back at the start of this had a large growing population of women in the 45+ range that had never used Linux before but had become users by virtue of it. Many found it to be just fine for what they were doing with it (browsing the web, writing email, watching videos, playing music, using it for programs like skype to communicate, etc). Since these books had Linux pre-installed by the manufacturer there was no need for them to configure drivers, hardware, to install more software, etc.
Microsoft's reaction was to reissue XP product keys and then to set some limits on what the netbook hardware could do. For instance, they limited the amount of ram to 1 gig. They limited the onboard graphics to a certain subset, they limited the hard disk capacity to 160 gig, they limited the display size which also limits the keyboard size. The prohibited the netbook from having a CD/DVD drive. They limited the processor type and speed, they limit the number of USB ports to 3, etc.
Under Linux these limitations don't exist and that is probably a good part of the reason that Dell has chosen to produce some Linux netbooks with some oomph. These limits are only on XP based netbooks whereas the Linux netbooks can be much more powerful if the manufacturer wishes it. It doesn't mean that they will push the power of them, it just means that it is not necessary that they take these considerations in to account.
The OEMs account for the vast majority of netbooks sold. It doesn't mean that you can't purchase one from these OEMs and then upgrade it yourself. If a netbook has a USB port then you can an external drive or DVD/CD burner. You can also add more RAM and a larger HDD if you are willing to tear one of those things apart, and it can be difficult for some models.
You can lead a man with reason but you can't make him think.
Try a Nano based 12". better display but still small enough. With reading glasses it is more usable too. Video plays fine one mine.
I like the idea of the portability of netbooks, sacrificing power for size and battery life, but would still like to see a good one that can (at least optionally) go without a keyboard. Gimme a nice size (sheet-of-paper is fine), outdoor readable, finger-touchable display with some USB and/or bluetooth keyboard support with that all-day battery, and close to (if not passing) gigahertz performance. If done right, I can add my own storage (USB, flash, whatever) as well as attach to network storage (NFS, SSHFS, FTP...). Sure, there are tablet PCs out there, but they all cost $2K or have tiny displays.
End the FUD
It probably had more to do with the ultra-cheap SSD that came with it than the CPU, something you can remedy for ~$40.
mod parent up. Same here ( 8.9'' AA1, 8GB SSD, running currently Linux Mint Gloria and tentatively the Awesome windows Manager) I can use it as an e-book reader (albeit a slightly heavy one), I can go online, I can code, do some 3D modeling with Blender, do some audio work with Audigy, use its webcam to take pictures or movies, retrieve photos from MMCs and so on, watch movies ... and it 's so small and light that I just have it with me all the time. Apart from the battery-life which could be better, it's the best gadget I ever bought.
"DRM is like the Ford Pinto: it's a smooth ride, right up the point at which it explodes and ruins your day."-C.Doctorow
Audacity ... not audigy
I'm currently using a netbook as my primary computer, following hardware failure. I plugged in a real keyboard, mouse and speakers, which solves the biggest usability problem, and I'm running Ubuntu using the Maximus window manager to get the best use of the small screen. I've also customized Firefox to avoid wasted space. The biggest hardware limitation is the ram size. It's hard to go back from 4GB to 512MB. Hopefully I'll soon be back on a better computer, but the netbook is tolerable.
... coming soon to a Craig's list near you.
I think most people are disappointed when they see how slow they are.
But, they're great for light use & travel.
I would have bought one myself but I have a lot of old (and small) laptops lying around and I didn't notice any huge performance boost with the new netbooks I've played with.
if watching porn is all a customer wants then even a netbook is not necessary, just get one of those portable DVD players.
i think netbooks fill a niche, for those that want to read a website's text and don't want all the high end audio/video media, like slashdot or other websites with news and information, plus netbooks are good for email & basic office tools (school & work environment). it dont take 3D accelerated graphics to read text but most all high resolution video (and games) require a good quality video card and driver along with some decent screen realestate...
Politics is Treachery, Religion is Brainwashing
If there are enough bundling deals, then the American telcos wills begin to have the same stranglehold on the manufacturers that they have in the cell phone industry. We'll have crippled, locked devices and frightened manufacturers.
They can still ruin this thing. Give them a year or so. Have faith.
One of the main selling points for Netbooks was that they were tiny, and could fit in your purse, shoulder bag, or carry-on bag and be taken with you on trips and vacations to check emails, update your facespace, dump camera images to upload, and basically simple tasks that you might want to do when away from home and your main PC and not have to carry a real bulky laptop around with you. Unfortunately, the new "netbooks" are as big as laptops these days, which defeats the entire idea behind them. Instead of making them SMALLER, they are going the opposite direction. By now we should have netbooks with 3" screens that go in your pocket that complete with smartphones and devices like the ipod touch. A budget OQO, basically. To me, netbooks should not be considered a netbook if the screen is larger than 8". Anything bigger and you're in portable laptop territory, regardless of processor speed.
With a portable DVD player you have to buy DVDs, versus getting free new porn every day.
Strange use of an ampersand, indeed.
My learning for today: until the 1900's "&" was the 27th letter of the alphabet!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ampersand#History
No, it is not fixable. Atom sucks at video playback and costs too much.
Athiesm is a religion like not collecting stamps is a hobby.
I mainly use my netbook when I travel. I also see a lot of my students using them; they fit well on the arms of school desks, and the students have young enough eyes to tolerate the small screens. I see netbooks being very popular as second computers. Like I said, I use mine for traveling. Most of the students have a full sized desktop or laptop at home. XP fans will be happy because netbooks may force MS to keep it for a while. The biggest problem I see for MS is that a lot of the netbooks are coming out as part of data plans. The telcos are going to want to shave every bit of cost off these systems that they can, and the "MicroSoft tax" is one very obvious source of cost savings.
since i'm on disability i have none to no use for a netbook.i have a reasonable desk top with two 22" monitors which bi don't have to strain my eyes to see.everything keeps getting smaller,but i'm getting older and would like to put off the eye strain
I would also like to recommend the Acer Aspire One. Once you install it with Ubuntu Netbook remix, it is the perfect machine for browsing the net and doing some light work.
I also use it on my D&D sessions as a sound recorder and note-taker.
The only thing I would change in it (please netbook manufacturers take note!) would be to allow the screen to turn and cover the keyboard, so its easier to use as an ebook.
No sig for the moment.
Slashdotted.
Obi-Wan: "I felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror and were sudden
Hmm, seems to work fine for me. Guess my Atom proc is special or something.
Obvious is right. Consumers (me included!) had been hanging out for netbooks for at least 5 years before they actually appeared. The market was there all along, there was just no product. The fact that it took Microsoft + the collective OEM industry so long to figure it out is staggering.
The success of Netbooks also surprised Microsoft
The success of {GUIs | LANs | The Internet | online music/iTunes/MP3 players | Netbooks | every other major advance} has surprised Microsoft. That company has always been more reactive than proactive. Of course, they can afford to be, which gives rise to their rather conservative approach to entering new markets.
The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
the /. PC industry has a huge impact on their website
I've been looking for a fairly cheap ~$200-300 netbook that runs WinXP and is capable of playing videos. I spend about 3 hours commuting roundtrip on the train each day (NYC Metropolitan area) and would love to have a cheap machine that I could edit documents on and watch vids (DVD or otherwise) on. Either a USB or Ethernet port is a must for media/data transfer. Wifi access not necessary.
Does the /. community have any recommendations? Woot often has some really good ones for about $150, but they run Linux, and I know, it's a hearesy here, but I'm looking for a WinXP one.
Thanks.
-"Those who fought today will die tommorow."-
I'm on my third netbook now since they came around, and the second running OSX perfectly. OSX on the Dell Mini 10v with a SSD is really fast and works perfectly. It's a really nice machine to have in addition to another 'real' computer.
I watch Hulu all the time on my EEE 901 running XP. In 480p mode it can drop frames, but never in standard mode.
What netbook? Many of those have upgradeable RAM, and RAM is damn cheap nowdays. Might be worth $50 and some time to get the machine a bit more usable.
My blog. Good stuff (when I remember to update it). Read it.
Do you happen to have hardware accelerated codecs by chance?
Indeed. People are keeping older computers longer now, and newer computers no longer require the purchase of top notch hardware to be useful. I can't remember the last time I bought anything other than the cheapest CPU Newegg offered for the motherboard I was looking to pair the chip with. For general usage there's barely any difference between the fastest chip they sell and the slowest - most home users would never tell the difference. RAM has also gotten cheap. $40 or so will buy you 4gb, which I'll not go so far as to claim is "all anyone will ever need", but realistically it's plenty enough for most desktop users. Heck 1GB is still plenty for most of them and that's been a very attainable number for nearly 10 years now.
Truthfully, despite having upgraded my processor and ram several times in between (mainly for stuff like gaming, video encoding, source compilation, etc), for BASIC usage my newest machine, a 2.5Ghz Phenom with 4GB of RAM, doesn't really feel any faster than my old Athlon 1.2Ghz with 1GB of RAM felt. I still want my faster machine for those times when I do just need to crunch some numbers (and most of Slashdot will need the same from time to time), but for your regular old users out there, they just don't do that sort of thing, and older (or in this case smaller and cheaper) will do them just fine.
"People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
I agree, Ubuntu Netbook Remix running on my Acer Aspire One is just great. I was impressed that everything worked right out of the box, with no configuration needed. Wireless, sound, screen resolution -- even the webcam worked immediately after the install. UNR is an entire order of magnitude better than the Linpus distribution that came installed. I'm a slackware user on both the desktop at home and the servers at work, but for a netbook I just don't want to mess around with configuration. UNR is a perfect fit: it works out of the box, but at the same time allows me to do all the normal linux things a geek wants to do.
My only complaint is that the battery runs out quicker than the original Linpus install. However 9.10 is supposed to make some progress in this area.
Dell Mini9 aka Vostro A90:
$299 with XP
DVD quality video is great, HD is watchable with minor glitches. You can usually get it for a little less on the Dell Outlet site.
Don't know about Flash or porn (no, really- I've heard of such things but. . .no, *really*) but both my netbooks stream Netflix over WiFi connections with no problems. Toshiba NB205 and Acer Aspire One.
Netbooks are CHEAP. Portable computing with internet access. And last I checked Linux was way cheaper than M$ when you need an operating system. So I can see why netbooks would be popular seller at the cheaper end of computer products.
So don't go to 512MB. I replaced the 512MB in my EeePC 900 with a stock 2GB SODIMM. I also upped the 4GB SSD to 32GB.
General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
Personally I've been doing great with "only" 512MB RAM on my primary computer. It's an old Thinkpad that runs OpenBSD and a lightweight window manager along with a plethora of mostly console apps (running in Xterm/screen sessions). The system rarely swaps, something that I did notice quite often when I tried Xubuntu.
I like Thinkpads so much, I may just replace mine with a used X-series when the time comes. Having a decent keyboard and screen (14-inch and 1024x768) are quite important to me. Oh, and a good-sized HD is a must also for a primary computer, IMO.
I don't know if i'd call it a niche, when it's more of a gaping hole. most people out there aren't hardcore gamers, and netbooks allow for these people to access the internet, write email, listen to music, and watch videos on the cheap. Netbooks are doing well because companies have realized that computers are no longer a toy for the elite.
DVD playing, video, and game repsonses is poor if you can make them work at all. But I think in a year or $300 laptops will do these OK.
Actually, an Atom N270/N280 has a pretty hard time playing back Flash video... so online porn isn't actually all that accessible on netbooks.
How come you know that porn uses Flash video?
I am not a university, but I play one on TV.
Dunno, I like the 10" size.. in terms of portability, it's about perfect imho... in terms of readability vs. size/portability.
Michael J. Ryan - tracker1.info
You don't need the latest CPU or graphics chip when all you do online is watch porn.
Unless it's high-definition porn. The Celeron 900 + GMA 915 in an Eee PC 900 isn't so hot for that.
Speaking of which, when using Ubuntu, can these things play back transcoded DVDs?
If so, what compression algorithm is suggested? I'm thinking of transcoding some discs to take on a trip out-of-country. H.264 is interesting, but I'd rather not if there is significant stuttering. (It's for my daughter to watch some movies on the plane.)
Help! I'm a slashdot refugee.
Porn = video, which on the web = Flash.
Oh, and I've seen YouPorn and the like ;)
>>>People are keeping older computers longer now
That's true. (caresses his Commodore Amiga 4000 lovingly) (just kidding). But if I was buying new I'd still want the most-or-second-most powerful CPU if only for longevity. I keep my cars 20+ years until they die, and it would be cool if I could do the same with a PC too. The Pentium 4 3000 MHz I have now is seven years and I still don't feel a need to upgrade. My AMD 500 megahertz laptop is 11 years but that's pushing it (the porn plays back in slow-motion)./
>>>for BASIC usage my newest machine a 2.5Ghz Phenom
You still program in BASIC? Cool. I wrote a Star Trek battle game in BASIC. It's simple but fun. ;-)
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
despite having upgraded my processor and ram several times in between (mainly for stuff like gaming, video encoding, source compilation, etc), for BASIC usage my newest machine, a 2.5Ghz Phenom with 4GB of RAM, doesn't really feel any faster than my old Athlon 1.2Ghz with 1GB of RAM felt.
Might that have something to do with feature additions in Visual Basic eating up all the gains from your faster CPU? (See Wirth's law.)
How come you know that porn uses Flash video?
If they're flashing you, they're showing you their private parts. Otherwise, it wouldn't be porn.
Dunno about Ubunut, but if that fails you can always slap Windows on there for video viewing... If you can afford CoreAVC, X264/H264 are usually OK for up to 720p. My X264 transcoded DVDs (all done via Handbrake on the Film preset, usually between 1800 and 2500kbps) all play flawlessly on my girlfriend's Toshiba NB100, which is also powered by an N270. DivX/XviD are guaranteed to work in pretty much every case.
P.S.
Apple and Microsoft are going to have a hard time surviving in the 2010s. Their business model is based-upon selling a new OS with new features like music playback (early 90s) or video playback (late 90s) or HD playback (now). These new features came-about because computers get getting faster. But what happens when users buy a Phenom machine in 2010 and are still using the same machine in 2020, and feel absolutely no need to upgrade wither the hardware or the OS? Microsoft will see its revenue shrink.
Perhaps this is why they are trying to move to a rental model, in order to ensure they keep getting paid even if you don't upgrade.
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
I agree that the keyboard & display are too small, both on netbook or laptop. But even a wimpy netbook is powerful enough for most tasks, except of course running Vista.
Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
Poor <VIDEO*gt;.
Dead before it even got off the ground because Apple wanted to say their browsers were HTML5 ready, but weren't willing to support an open codec.
Hell - MS just had no plans to support the tag at all.
Flash is slow, bloated, disgusting shit. Just embed the fucking video file and I'll let my player of choice handle it properly, plug-in or not.
I remember my old Timex Sinclair 1000 computer, looks almost identical to the new netbooks (minus the screen). What I do find interesting about the netbook craze is that people will soon realize that they really aren't that powerful. As a result, expect companies to increase RAM, performance, storage, weight, etc. and keep the price reasonable.
Personally, I'm going to wait just a little longer so I can use it for wireless video streaming.
Views expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the author.
The only thing I would change in it (please netbook manufacturers take note!) would be to allow the screen to turn and cover the keyboard, so its easier to use as an ebook.
Unless Microsoft charges extra for tablet functionality in Windows.
Don't think so. I'm currently using an ASUS EEE 1000HE (N280 I believe). I have no issues with flash videos stuttering for SD content (pretty sure Hulu uses flash throughout). Bear in mind I have wiped off XP Home, upgraded to 2GB of RAM and installed XP Pro, additionally disabling the services I don't use on a daily basis. Prior to the re-install and disabling of services the stutter was there and quite pronounced. Google Earth gave me problems (rendered horribly slow) prior to the re-install as well, now works great. For those who don't know which services to turn off... Deal with the stuttering. If you are still brave enough to try, this is a good beginners guide to disabling some of the services in question (stick to the "SAFE" configuration): http://www.blackviper.com/WinXP/servicecfg.htm Honest opinion; I have a Quad-core "dream machine" I built that is useless save for gaming and re-encoding video now. I typically only use the netbook and my HTPC.
It doesn't necessarily imply that revenue will shrink, more likely growth will stagnate which is *almost* as bad and is already happening.
An Atom N270 at 1.7 GHz is weak (3300 MIPS) - not even as powerful as my ancient Pentium 4 (~9500 MIPS). At Atom is about the same as an old AMD Athlon or a P3 clocked at 1.2 GHz.
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
Drop the audio to CBR MP3, and use DivX (not the h.264 version) to encode and decode.
Encoding is faster with XviD but you get shittier results, and decoding is tops with the DivX decoder. Either way I assume you'll be making the encodes on another PC. And please, do an encode, not a transcode. Transcodes make baby Tux cry.
Avoid any GPU decode bullshit - it never works right and you're draining more power from your tiny battery. The CPU is more than powerful enough to handle 848x480 @ 23.976 / 29.97.
That's what she said.
When netbooks get too small, they're harder to use. Small screens tend to be hard to read. Small keyboards are a PITA to type on.
OTOH, I have no interest in lugging my laptop around with me. Granted, it's a lot smaller than my desktop, but it's still too big to carry around on a regular basis.
My personal "sweet spot" would be smaller than a laptop, but with a larger screen & keyboard than my netbook.
Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
On second thought... Complainers about the stuttering: Do you have it plugged in while this is occurring? Many of these netbooks drop to lower performance levels to save battery life while unplugged. If plugged in, see my previous post.
Is it? The car I drive today is basically the same as the car I drove when I was 18. About 100 horsepower, holds 5 people, has a trunk for groceries, and gets around 35 MPG. The industry has not stagnated because they learned to sell style, and encourage people to upgrade simply because the top changed.
The PC industry needs to learn to do the same. Or else end-up just like the kitchen industry (selling appliances barely above cost).
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
I think netbooks will 'eventually' be free, in the same respect we get free phones now with wireless plans. I think 'eventually' is in the next year. Comcast ran an ad in my area (Indianapolis) a couple months ago, apparently giving a netbook if one switched plans from, say, AT&T to Comcast. AT&T in my area ran ads recently giving these things for (after, *cough* rebate), something under $100.
I don't know if i'd call it a niche, when it's more of a gaping hole.
Wait, are you talking about watching porn?
Ooh, a sarcasm detector. Oh, that's a real useful invention.
Hmm, seems to work fine for me. Guess my Atom proc is special or something.
Same here. I watch Hulu and Youtube (high-res glitches a little) videos with no problems in Ubuntu with my Eee 901 (Atom N270). Upgraded my RAM to 2gb and have Firefox running off the RAM disk though so that might help things a little. The system is fast enough I can even play American McGee's Alice in Wine with no slowdowns or glitching. The only limitations and problems I've ever had with my Eee have to do with the small screen size (1024x600). The screen is a little too cramped to edit photos or create graphics on. For a machine I got to type documents and code on I've been constantly impressed with its capabilities.
When I use a laptop as my "main" computer I don't like the keyboard or display, either... both external. Same thing I'd do with a netbook. I don't see the problem.
The screens on most netbooks are pretty cramped IMO even for use on the move.
Personally I love my new HP mini 5101. It's about the size of an EEE 1000 the CPU is an atom (though it is the newer N280 variant, not sure how much difference that makes) the RAM/HDD are at the limit of what MS will let them sell with a ULCPC XP home license (and both are upgradable relatively easilly) but the keyboard is chicklet style and goes almost to the edge and the display while still 10 inch is very bright and sharp and has a resoloution of 1366x768 (more pixels than my macbook). The price is high by netbook standards but cheaper than any laptop i've bought before
note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
That may be so, but I would hazard a guess that putting a P4 in a netbook would run much hotter and deliver significantly lower battery life. The Atom 270 just hits a sweet spot for most people regarding power/battery life. I can play AVIs and do video Skype just fine on my 900HA and it 'feels' just as fast as my Core 2 desktop.
Once I was a four stone apology. Now I am two separate gorillas.
Same here. I upgraded mine from 0.5 to 1.5 GiB RAM (no point in upgrading to 1 GiB, as it's just as much work). Had to take the entire thing apart, but I got it back together again. I didn't feel like using the SSD for swap.
I'm running Xubuntu (I mostly use the terminal, and I didn't want one of those "heavy" desktop environments).
It seems the era of SCCs has come to an end, at least until the ARM "smartbook" SCCs start showing up.
I suffer from attention surplus disorder.
Actually, an Atom N270/N280 has a pretty hard time playing back Flash video...
What about upskirts?
"I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)
The screens on most netbooks are pretty cramped IMO even for use on the move.
I completely agree, but you put up with it for portability... that's why I annoyed at the "quiz," because I'd already previously had laptops (not now, though, I gave my last one to my wife) and that's how I used it...
In fact, I'd say the only thing holding me back right now is not knowing what the maximum external video dimensions are... I've spoiled myself with a large monitor, and wouldn't want to have to use a smaller size. Plus I'd like DVI. Few laptops have it, no netbooks have it.
But in a more general sense, I'm just saying most people simply don't need even average computers that are being sold now, most people are over-buying and ending up wasting a lot of money, like buying a Hummer to commute by yourself to work. I've got nothing against Hummers, but it makes no logical sense for that purpose.
Stupid, sexy Flanders.
You've got a point, but remember too that your average care typically gets more wear and tear than a computer and costs a lot more to maintain over a longer period of time. With some older cars there comes a point when maintenance costs are starting to match a car payment. Now people certainly WILL buy for style (and some do), but it seems the majority of us end up replacing a car because it's become more trouble than it's worth. PC's are also generally a cheaper item than a car. Try as it might, I just don't see them keeping people on the upgrade path. That doesn't mean that NO new computers will be sold though - kids growing up will need new ones, old ones certainly will break, and there will always be an enthusiast market, but the reality is computers have become a commodity - droves and droves of people aren't buying one for the first time like they were 10 years ago. The manufacturers (both software and hardware) are going to have to accept that.
"People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
Where's he going to get the original uncompressed source for encoding? DVD compression is inefficient enough that you can transcode to a smaller format without much loss.
I thought transcode is the proper word, since I am moving from DVDs (mpeg2 encoded?) to another format. :-)
I'll have to see what options I have. I'll be doing the transcoding (encoding?) on an Ubuntu Intel Core2Duo desktop with Handbrake. Presumably Handbrake transcodes to xvid?
Help! I'm a slashdot refugee.
Sorry, I meant to say I'll try DivX encoding if Handbrake has it as an option.
Help! I'm a slashdot refugee.
Yes, but it wood be nice to have a bigger screen!
L.
NCIX has the Asus EEE 701 on for a hair under $180CDN. It was so cheap, I had to get one just for traveling.
http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=33430&promoid=1026
Truthfully, despite having upgraded my processor and ram several times in between (mainly for stuff like gaming, video encoding, source compilation, etc), for BASIC usage my newest machine, a 2.5Ghz Phenom with 4GB of RAM, doesn't really feel any faster than my old Athlon 1.2Ghz with 1GB of RAM felt. I still want my faster machine for those times when I do just need to crunch some numbers (and most of Slashdot will need the same from time to time), but for your regular old users out there, they just don't do that sort of thing, and older (or in this case smaller and cheaper) will do them just fine.
IMHO "feeling faster"-problem has shifted entirely from hardware to software. On the other hand, most people have some limit where speed is acceptable. When computer passes that limit, you start doing more and more stuff. That also applies to software, and is commonly called "bloat"
My netbook has 1GB RAM, and with a real keyboard, mouse and external screen, it was very usable. The main bottleneck I noticed was when browsing through digital photographs, it took a while for them to render on the larger screen.
there is no god but truth, and reality is its prophet
I've also customized Firefox to avoid wasted space.
And by that, I assume you mean you installed Vimperator?
Since the release of low-spec netbooks for $300+, the OEM's now charge $450+ for low-end laptops that used to sell for as low as $320. Reminds me of the cereal aisle, where you get more box and less product for only a little more money. Yay!
Imagination drew in bold strokes, instantly serving hopes and fears, while knowledge advanced by slow increments...
Have you actually seen what it takes to upgrade the memory in some netbooks?
Part 1 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_jUFbxHoAU
Part 2 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvoixR46wNY
The Atom netbooks all support 2GB RAM unless the manufacturer crippled them.
My Samsung NC10 has 2GB RAM (after $20 upgrade). This model also has a full-sized keyboard and an 8 hour battery.
I'm a gamer, so I need a bitchin desktop. But when I'm traveling? The NC10 is more than enough.
A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
Could allways use something like this...
Kensington Dual Monitor Adapter - graphics adapter
Mfg. Part: K33907US | CDW Part: 1378404 | UNSPSC: 43201401
From shareholders' perspective level revenue is as bad as losing. They need to see GROWTH. The problem is Microsoft grew so huge that the only direction they can go is down. That is why they have been desperately trying to best Google (good luck with that!) and also have been vainly been trying to get into the music distribution market that Apple is enjoying huge success in, and why they are going to be opening "microsoft stores" next to every Apple store in major markets. Why? They are trying SOME way not just to delay their implosion, but to continue to grow.
The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
It... does?
I watch Netflix streaming movies on mine full-screen all the time, and I've never seen any hiccups or problems. (At least, not problems caused by the Atom chip as opposed to my ISP.) Running Windows 7, if that's relevant.
Comment of the year
So... I seems Microsoft is really taking a beating over that humongous 2% market share Linux is taking away.
Just think, if Teh Lunix could double their market share... they'd still be insignificant!
Aren't that powerful for what, though? They are *plenty* powerful for the majority of computer use. Video games and serious photo/video manipulation aside, few folks are going to really tax the hardware.
Wireless video streaming works dandy... except of course for the braindead Linux implementation of Flash video...
+1 Disagree
Maybe Youtube and Youporn are just especially taxing ;)
Most people don't need the garbage that is being pushed out.. This just proves it.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Ever since processors hit 500mHz I've been telling people it doesn't matter what CPU you have, and you just need enough RAM for the OS (not minimal, but enough). It's plenty powerful for anything you want to throw at it.
Of course, then I looked at Nero, which was dumbed-down and rewritten in Molasses. And AVG rewritten in Pitch, with extra notifications windows and a little pop-up which helpfully summarizes whatever you're looking at, in case you happen to be... I don't know, woefully myopic to the point that you can't read the window you just clicked on. And Visual Studio which has to run a compiler every time you open a file. And it was then I realized you'll never win. It's never going to be fast enough after you apply all of the security updates.
I used to be able to watch individual controls get painted because file I/O had a high priority (and apparently even with far more RAM than necessary Windows likes to page things out). Now I have the same experience, only it's because of the applications being inefficient. Black-box object reuse abuse at its finest, like using IE rendering engine to run JavaScript to show a message box.
I'd say Sam's Club is right on the money. Next year that netbook won't run any new apps, so you better be planning on using what software you already have.
how about Snow Leopard which focused heavily on optimizing it's previous incarnation? Although I don't suggest they will try to optimize for the foreseable future, it does show that they can release an OS that doesn't focus on cramming more features in.
Did you know that you can't buy Windows XP Tablet Edition (a seperate SKU; you can't buy a 'tablet functionality' service pack later for example) from Microsoft in isolation? It's only licensed together with tablet PCs, so we'll never know how much what you're describing would cost.
I didn't know this until recently.
Unless it was your monitor that failed, why not plug that in too?
I like my large monitor to be fully utilised, and for the small laptop screen to scroll round, so I use this command:
xrandr --fb 1920x1200 --output VGA --mode 1920x1200 --output LVDS --mode 1024x600 --panning 1920x1200+0+0/1920x1200+0+0/512/300/512/300
My P4 PC broke (motherboard failed when the power supply blew up) so I had to replace it.
I have a quad core something or other (cost £125-ish), but I think the biggest speed increase is because of the new hard disk -- and I bought the "eco" low-power 1TB Samsung drive! (I wanted something quiet).
A friend bought an SSD and says it's the best thing he's bought for a PC for years, programs load so quickly.
would you look at that, its time for a new netbook WAAAAYY before its time for a new dvd...
PROFIT
Don't anthropomorphize computers: they hate that.
They are *plenty* powerful for the majority of computer use.
I wish people would comprehend the implications of this. It's also the same problem with "Linux is suitable for the majority of what people do at home".
Yes, majority. A car that can only run 60 miles on a tank of gas covers the majority of what people do with their cars. But a cat that only runs 60 miles on a tank of gas would be unacceptable because, while a majority of people's driving sessions consist of less than 30 mile trips from home, they still need the occasional trip to a friend's or relative's place in the next town or two over, and the even rarer, but still critical, road trip out of state or wherever.
With netbooks, the majority of what people do, a netbook can do acceptably with regards to performance. But sometimes people want to check out an HD YouTube clip (even HQ clips have performance issues on the current Atom N270/GMA950 netbooks), or process those vacation photos/videos, etc.
Take, for example, something that almost everyone uses: iTunes. iTunes will run just fine on a netbook, will play music just fine, and probably play SD videos just fine, but when they decide they'd like to rent an HD movie or TV show, they will find out the performance just isn't there.
Yes, most people, most of the time, will be just fine with a netbook. Unfortunately (well, fortunately, actually), people sometimes do want to do more than a netbook can handle.
I suspect someone's going to chime in that HD doesn't make any sense on an 800x600 screen, which isn't strictly true (1280x720 will look better on that screen than 640x480), is a side issue when the topic is performance (a few posts up someone mentions using an external display, keyboard and mouse with their netbook) and just further illustrates another problem with netbooks. It's definitely *not* a feature that the screen is so small that HD content has more detail than the screen can display.
Same here. I used my eeepc 900 (1 GB ram) as my main system for a few month, external keyboard, mouse and 1680x1050 screen.
I usually switched the cpu clock to "battery mode" (600 MHz) so it could run for hours with it's internal fan on almost zero rpm.
Even 3D applications like Blender worked fine.
Dell is trying to push the netbooks as an accessory for their larger models when it does fine on its own. I think their and other vendors' fear is that netbooks will continue to replace high-margin notebooks for many customers. I have several laptops (a couple Studio XPS systems, several Inspirons) but recently have been using my Samsung N120 netbook almost exclusively when outside the house.
This particular model is almost identical to any of the others (160G HD, 1.6GhZ Atom, 1G RAM upgradeable to 2G, 3 USB ports, MiniSD slot, 7-8hr battery life). I chose mine based on the color and the slightly larger keyboard.
It is running XP only because I couldn't find a Linux version with the same specs. I'll likely either reinstall or even get a pure Linux one. Both OSes work absolutely fine with my AT&T USB 3G card, both run the Netbeans IDE, OpenOffice, Firefox and the VPN software that I need for work.
So far the only issue I've had was a failure during the Windows update. It apparently wiped out my Samsung WiFi/Ethernet drivers because the binaries weren't signed. I re-downloaded the drivers via the 3G connection and was able to get it going without too much trouble.
So yeah, when I do my next purchase it will definitely replace a traditional laptop because *it's better*.
I'm currently using a netbook as my primary computer, following hardware failure.
And are you so thoroughly satisfied with your netbook as your primary computer that you have no desire for a faster, more powerful computer (ignoring your issue with lack of RAM)?
Do most people watch HD videos on their computer?
I've never done it in my life. Maybe I'm unique. My netbook is great for everything except gaming. Of course, it'd better be, considering it's got more graphics grunt than I made it through college with, and nearly as much processing power.
It's been a long time.
I just got my Toshiba NB205-N210. On the whole, I love it. But I borked up the Toshiba utilities installation(s) when I tried to uninstall some of them. That triggered a quest to re-install Windows XP. Whoa Daddy!! Took all night.
Problems:
1. No WinXP disk included.
2. No optical drive.
3. No SATA driver on a WinXP disk (not even on SP3) assuming you have one handy (BSOD when starting the installer).
4. I had a WinXP/SP2 disk from somewhere in my past. Wasn't compatible with the CD key on the back on the Toshiba.
5. Some weird reliance the installer has on whatever may already be on the c: drive was producing a corrupted file error that would prevent the XP installation from proceeding.
5a. Another weird error from the XP installer that wouldn't let me remove the existing c:\ partition. It said it was using temporary files on the C drive.
Solutions:
1a. I had a WinXP/SP2 disk already.
1b. nLite.
1c. **IMPORTANT** Save the C:\WINDOWS\I386 directory from the factory installed XP before you blast it!
1d. Created a hybrid installation between the WinXP/SP2 disk and the I386 directory from the netbook. Worked!
2. There are a few utilities out there that will create a bootable flash drive WinXP installer from a source disk.
3. BIOS setup, AHCI->Compatibility
4. See 1d
5. http://www.sysresccd.org/Main_Page. Used it (also transferred to a bootable flash drive) to blast the factory created partitions.
At 4:45am, I was successful. Is this really what is required to re-install fresh XP on a netbook? Re-loading their factory installed image defeats my purpose and besides, I broke their tool that does it. I'm not about to ask Toshiba support for XP install media. I pre-assume that to be worse than what I endured.
What are you doing wrong?
Works fine on my netbook.
It's been a long time.
That's not what your mom said.
It's been a long time.
Love my NC10 with 2 GB RAM! Keyboard is just a LITTLE small, and I hate the touchpad, but I only use it for hacking in Emacs anyway, so I don't need that :).
Point well taken-- I think the main issue is the perception of what the netbook is intended to do. We can spend all day coming up with uses they are ill suited for due to size/form factor/performance etc. I suspect video games and potentially HD video are among the few things netbooks don't do well that people really want. If one of those is your dealbreaker then you are right for not buying yet. I have an Aspire 110L (one of the more ancient models with the GMA 950) running xubuntu. It is quite capable of playing full screen standard definition video (unless it's Flash video... but that's a linux Flash problem). I honestly haven't tried HD video as standard def playback on that screen really hasn't left me wanting. Of course, you have a different opinion in that matter.
There are a ton of complaints about netbooks in comments on this article, it seems the issue folks take with them is they can't always replace a desktop. That's fine, they aren't designed to. HD video and video games are two applications I'd have to give you that they don't do well.
+1 Disagree
Have 2 of these Eee's...the 701 & a 1000. Because of the screen/keyboard size of the 701...don't use it too much...but the 1000 works perfect for "on the go" use. Took it on vacation twice & temporarily losing my net access at home...was the perfect thing to use at a large chain coffee house while kicking back drinking an iced tea (don't do the coffee bit)...reading my online newspapers/email from a portable version of Firefox & Thunderbird.
With the 8-9 hour battery/2 GB of memory I popped out of the 701 and running XP Home with a 160 GB hard drive...the 1000 will let me use it all day long or most of a week without plugging it in. Of course...I fully understood what I was getting before I bought it. My AMD quad-core with 8 GB of memory works well for video encoding...but is overkill for what I can use the netbook for.
Not even sure if I'll upgrade it to 7...since XP works like a dream on it. May even Ghost the XP image & put 2000 Pro on it & see what happens.;)
Don't worry about the world coming to an end today. It's already tomorrow in Australia. - Charles M. Schulz
Indeed.... My main computer (actually it's my wifes... mine was better but hers was quieter) is a P-IV 2.6HT, 2Gig RAM. Recently, I had to replace a power supply for a friend and I needed to order a new one.... I though, let's share shipping costs and I'll buy something to replace that old thing (6 years and counting). A nice dual core Atom 330... surely that's nice.... Well...No... According to what I read it barely matches a P-IV 2GHz.... I don't do that much multi threaded stuff, so, even the fact that it's dual core and HT doesn't help anything.
Slashdot loads way quicker on my 3.5ghz Athlon II, than it does on my 2ghz Athlon XP.
But for most stuff, like OpenOffice, email, etc., there is no difference.
my atom n270 has no prblem with flash. and im not talking youtube either. in linux it cant do hd flash due to slow gma drivers but in xp it does fine. i watch tv shows like csi from cbs.com fine in full screen.
I have to agree completely there.
I spent years looking for a small laptop that would let me run basic applications. At the time (this was the early 2000s, as late as 2004ish), I wanted something I could do writing on the road with, because I was the lead editor of an online magazine. Between the options that were ridiculously expensive 15 year old DOS machines that had the form factor I wanted but only transferred files using ancient floppy disk technology, or the options that were incredibly hackish palm pilots with hundred dollar attachments that would only transfer files through some of the worst software known to man and only if I spent the money on the super keen word processor, the options were bad.
When I first read about the netbook, it was my Dad who had learned about it. Within a year, I owned one, and among my immediate family (father, mother, brothers, sisters), we had 5 in total. I don't actually like big laptops. I want something portable, and that means small and cheap. I don't want to start crying about losing my small yet powerful laptop that cost 6 months wages.
It's been a long time.
It's only a free market if M$ doesn't pressure the OEMs to drop Linux.
You could but bear in mind that it is probablly going to be slower than even intel integrated graphics.
Assuming you are in the US you could also pick up a refurb mini 2140 from the HP buisness outlet store and use an exprescard graphics soloution.
note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
Or maybe the complainent was using linux. Flash on linux is well known for having apalling video performance.
note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
I was faced with replacement of a seven year old Toshiba XP which gave good service. Choices were either a MacBook or a netbook. With kids using them the computer had to be either indestructible or disposable. I don't worry so much when my kids pound away IM'ing on the netbook. Converted DVD's from another machine play quite nicely so I don't miss the optical drive. A netbook is a good second computer, or satellite computer. I'd not want to write my great american novel on it, but for reading the news, or this site, does good. Yes, it did displace a $1K computer.
not true. Have you ever tried youp0rn.com on a netbook? ;)
made me switch to youjizz
HP's netbooks now come with an (optional $80) HD video accelerator, which plugs into some standard port on the motherboard.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXohElvVk4I
~X
sig?
This market didn't even exist until the One Laptop Per Child Program proved it was possible to produce cheap, durable, usable small laptops, and that people would actually use want them. Until OLPC's 'Buy One/Give One' program allowed people to actually touch them and find the form factor to be completely adequate for a lot of uses the market's focus was exclusivly "Bigger Screen, Faster CPU, Replace Your Desktop!" Let's face it, 97% of end-user computers in the corporate world never even get above maybe 15% CPU usage, these things are adequate for most users. Thanks to OLPC for showing us that.
"Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
"You don't need the latest CPU or graphics chip when all you do online is watch porn."
Having them doesn't exactly hurt the experience. :)
"This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
Pro Tip
Even though Vista is an unmitigated disaster you will always get modded down for stating the obvious.
I don't think in power consumption, which was the main goal of those processors. People keep comparing 2W-8W processor capabilities with 90W processors, expecting them to achieve the same level of performance. Well, you're wrong.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srLm8vrddac
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Snlp1yTmeyM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZm6qM0KPpg
http://www.alwaysinnovating.com/touchbook/
Artix
Your Linux, your init.
Hey, I had problems watching videos until I use the slider from Full Hardware Acceleration to Medium Hardware/Software acceleration. I thought that would take pressure from the crappy embedded graphics card and move it to the processor. Turns out the video runs now smoother than before.
Am I wrong thinking this slider uses the processor more now than before?
I suspect someone's going to chime in that HD doesn't make any sense on an 800x600 screen, which isn't strictly true
That, and the fact that HD is increasingly the only option. In 12 months time, good luck finding a 640x480 encode of many online videos.
... and then they built the supercollider.
Yeah...we also need lower-power machines that are the size of regular laptops. I bought my wife an Everex StepNote nearly two years ago and she's still using it. It uses a Via C7, and has a Unichrome gfx chipset, but for most stuff it works fantastically well. On top of all of that, it was about the price of a higher-end netbook.
I don't know that I'd buy another one--especially not for myself--but if they were to sell one as a large netbook, and if they'd sell it with a good battery, I just might.
Stating on Slashdot that I like cheese since 1997.
Three thoughts:
First, what cat goes 60 miles per hour?
Secondly, companies thrive on people not being able to get the most out of their hardware. Most people would also save a lot of money if they learned a little more about their PCs/netbooks/laptops and learned how to use it to their full potential.
Thirdly, IMO the reason netbooks are selling so fast is because they meet the basic needs of most people. Netbooks meet a middle ground between the smart phone and the huge honk'n laptop (I'm still traumatized from my old Toshiba). We're so busy being entertained by our machines (videos/gaming) that we don't take the time anymore to learn about how to use them in other ways (such as in constructive educational ways).
I often see people who struggle with their full size laptops as they try and find a place to put it and type in the hall. Or if they have to run off somewhere real quick its too inconvienent to pack everything up including the charger. Now if that's your primary computer then I guess it makes sense to use it for dual purposes (although your putting your data at risk on a machine you tote it everywhere and takes abuse). However, if you only need light work done why burden yourself with bloated hardware?
But what happens when users buy a Phenom machine in 2010 and are still using the same machine in 2020, and feel absolutely no need to upgrade wither the hardware or the OS?
The business model is hardware and software that expire soon after the warranty. Hard drives die. Capacitors die. Protocols and data formats become unsupported, like Gopher or RealPlayer or old games' online multiplayer capability. Applications aren't designed for decade-old operating systems. New vulnerabilities show up, like the Windows 98 vulnerability that Microsoft didn't fix because it came out just before the operating system's end of life.
As for your Phenom not feeling any faster you have to understand that not all programs can take full advantage of a certain number of cores. You might be interested to find that many programs including games in run better ("better"?) than in quad cores.
I do agree however that I like to hold on to older hardware. Installing Linux on them has let me keep them around as sandboxes for me to play around in and learn new things. I even keep one as a print server (old P3).
If you consider the iPod touch to be Apple's netbook (it has all the same features and similar price points) then it's interesting that they are selling about 1 iPod touch for every Mac they sell. In a way that is netbooks making up half of their computer sales.
First, what cat goes 60 miles per hour?
Apparently, the Cheetah, which currently holds the record as the fastest land animal (the typical Slashdotter jerking off to his netbook notwithstanding.)
The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
>> But a cat that only runs 60 miles on a tank of gas would be unacceptable....
I don't know, that would be a pretty cool cat.
I think that both companies have seen the writing on that far off wall and have made some of the necessary steps to deal with the eventual stagnation of the computer market. Microsoft is making a big push into the console gaming industry and Apple probably makes more money from the iPhone and iPod than it does with its computers.
There's also a decent sized segment of the world's population that don't use computers. There's still room for growth for several more decades as a lot of third world countries modernize and begin to purchase a personal computer or some type rather than using an internet cafe or public machine. Microsoft is probably in a worse position than Apple as it really has nowhere to go other than down. Apple's market share is still small enough that it could continue to grow for some time before it runs into a wall.
Microsoft is just one big thing away from having a fairly secure future. If they could find a new or emerging market and create a product that's as successful as the iPod, they'll be able to stick around for a while.
The next best thing will be viewing 3d movies.That will get pushed by the porn industry (just like HD, VHS etc) and the TV market (in order to catch up with theatres) in a war of escalation, its hard to say what will be the next big memory hog in 10 years time.
Some Flash worked fine, but other stuff shows blocky video where my C2D shows everything smooth, and this is on fairly low-res stuff. HD just doesn't work, and a lot of other video isn't that smooth either. Hell, my girlfriend watches stuff online a lot, so I get to see an N270 in action every night - they're fine for web surfing and DivX/XVid, but proper Flash video (especially when encoded with H264) is too taxing for those little things, IMO. Sometimes watchable, depending on bitrates etc. but often also not...
Two things occur to me: Either Adobe has released a version of Flash that's 10x faster than the one they had back in June, or everyone saying that an N270 will play back most or even all Flash video smoothly are all full of shit. The main reason I sold my N270-based netbook was the stuttering in Flash video. Sure, it was usually watchable, but definitely not smooth. I had a cut down version of XP Pro SP3 on there, all nice and updated, no unnecessary background processes... and strangely enough, at the time, everyone (even on slashdot!) was complaining about stuttering flash video. So what changed between then and now? Did the N270 mutate?
As for plugging in vs. not, of course. Even overclocked to N280 levels (SuperHybridEngine's Super Performance mode), the N270 just had no chance with a lot of videos. Task manager showed pegged CPU at these times, so I'm guessing that was the cause. The N270 based Toshiba NB100 I got my girlfriend has similar symptoms, whether plugged in or not.
"That was written in a browser, and afaik Linux is the only OS that won't run the one browser that doesn't have a spell check."
I wasn't seriously implying linux "in general" lacked spell checkers. I was kind of making fun of the fact that the guy wrote something that he apparently intended to be taken seriously, and he couldn't be bothered to proof his work. Add the general pro-linux slant and the weird, unsubstantiated jab at Microsoft trying to regain market share, and it was easy to shift it the other way.
Funny that. Last time I had to pick a CPU I went for a good low-power to juice ratio (4850e) instead.
Saving in all its forms (including power and money saving) are starting to creep into the habits of consumers. That's one of the main reasons netbooks have so much success: they're cheaper and run longer without recharge.
Not Apple. The goals of the new Apple have always been selling the hardware. That won't change, and they can bring out new stuff when they feel the need for it. The software is just the icing on the cake.
For Microsoft, however, it's a real problem. They're selling ONLY cake frosting, and sometimes people decide they want pie or pudding instead. And they can't go into the cake, pie or pudding business because they have all these partners (OEM) already established in those areas and doing so would mean stabbing them in the back.
Whenever they tried taking over industries this way it has happened: gaming consoles, music players, now mobile phones. If they had had a resonating success in those areas at least they would have come out with something, but they haven't. So they just decimated their former partners and destroyed their markets for nothing.
I'm watching them fascinated, to see if they will be so stupid as to cannibalize their last standing market, the PC, and try to stab the OEMs in the back. Because they would SO abandon Windows and move to Linux. The new wave of ARM processors will show the way.
What will stop Microsoft? Apparently, Microsoft itself. I'm amazed to see that it's not so much all the external factors but the mistakes the company does itself that mess things up for it.
i ate crayons when i was a kid and now i have two braincells and the blue ones taste nicer
You'll possibly want a DVD drive as well as mouse and kb. For most people, adding extra components is a nuisance. Adding a monitor means you're paying for a built in monitor that you don't need, and a keyboard and DVD drive aren't free.
For less than the price of my netbook, I can get a space saving unit with twice the RAM and Hard Disk space, better graphics and a DVD rewriter. And Vista (Ok, most of us might be happier with XP, but consumers want the newest, most modern OS).
Huh? Not sure what your point is.
You don't still drive the exact same car that you did when you were 18, right? Cars wear out eventually, and people don't generally like driving old unreliable cars unless they simply can't afford anything else.
The same goes for computers. Parts fail, HDDs die. Also, old CPUs and GPUs can't keep up with the demands of the latest high-definition videos and games.
I don't know how you you got the idea that the PC industry is in danger of dying or stagnating. There's always something new around the corner, other than more GHz, more RAM and more storage. New models are evolutionary, so change is usually slow, but it's constant change. And most makers have already learned how to sell computers on style, including Sony and Dell and of course Apple.
I think if you bought a new PC in 2010, it's going to be hard to run keep it running by 2020, unless you just repurpose it for something really simple I suppose (primary desktop PC use is probably out of the question). Drivers will be hard to find and the latest OSs may not support your chipsets anymore. You could run the old OSs if you religiously kept all your driver discs/downloads. By 2020, computers will probably have evolved in many mind-boggling ways, and the hardware will have evolved to keep up with the demands of the latest tech, which will probably include various augmented reality and VR features.
Apple is doing really well even in the current recession, and I don't see where you got the idea of rental models from. The only thing I can think of with Apple is renting movies via iTunes. But I certainly don't see them pursuing any rental model.
Of course, there's also the whole thing of forced obsolescence that Steve Jobs seems to favour (limiting the support of older Macs in new OS Xs), and I'm sure that will keep people buying new Macs for some time yet, until the Depression bites I suppose.
May be... but if it needs to *replace* another machine, it should match the performance. Regardless of power consumption.
I've got a Dell Mini 10 running Ubuntu 9.04 and it's great. Was a bit of a fiddle getting Ubuntu upgraded and then working the way I wanted but now it's up an running it's great and my desktop is basically used for the very occasional game and to watch videos, considering it's a fairly high spec Desktop it makes me feel that I paid a bit too much for it really. Ah well.
Tell me more about this cat.
you can add another 1Gb, you have to open it your self, its a little neve racking but there are loads of demos on the net how to do this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1MBuizr_s4
i also prefer the ubuntu distro as appose to XP as it dosen't waste my precious resources on virus scanners, fucking update manager software (looking at you adobe and quicktime) and what ever else decides to steal my ram and CPU (mallare if your downloading porn), ... though my Xorg seems to be getting a little lively after the last kernal update
probably not for the faint harted, and not if its your only machine,
Can't image that the 60Mhz difference between the two cores (N270 vs. N280) would make that much of a difference. I can tell you that I did have Win7 installed at one point and the stuttering stayed no matter what I disabled (hence the switch to WinXP SP3 Pro). Just to verify I was correct in my previous posts, I just went to Youtube.com and tested with the non-HD "Tron Legacy" trailer (on my ASUS 1000HE) and it played without a hitch, studder or dropped frame. I do have the newest version of Flash. I do have a cohert in my office who has an intel referance tablet/netbook convertible (N270 based) which studders horribly on the very same video (tested while making this very post). They must have changed something more between the two cores than I know of. It's still the same graphics chip. Dunno what to make of my real world test. 60Mhz shouldn't make any difference at all.
And AVG rewritten in Pitch, with extra notifications windows and a little pop-up which helpfully summarizes whatever you're looking at, in case you happen to be... I don't know, woefully myopic to the point that you can't read the window you just clicked on.
It's not myopic, it's being over 45 and can't remember where you set down your reading glasses
We need a "+1 -- nice sig" moderation.
Actually, IIRC the N280 has a slight FSB boost over the N270, which makes a lot more difference than the slight clock speed bump. I just find it hard to believe that a higher FSB is making the difference between unwatchable and butter-smooth.
How're "HQ" Youtube videos on the 1000HE? As stutter-free as non-HQ? Is HD almost watchable (say, 10fps), or still 1 or 2 fps?
You'll possibly want a DVD drive as well as mouse and kb. For most people, adding extra components is a nuisance. Adding a monitor means you're paying for a built in monitor that you don't need, and a keyboard and DVD drive aren't free.
Good points, but there's the main reason for wanting a netbook: highly portable computing. Unplug the monitor and the USB hub that has all of a keyboard, mouse, and DVD drive, and you're off... two things to unplug (well, power, too, I suppose).
Then when you get home you have an ultra efficient, ultra quiet "desktop" system.
If you need power, you need power, but if you don't, and you don't want redundant portable/desktop computers, I think the netbook (or low end laptop) is a great solution.
Stupid, sexy Flanders.
I agree. Your solution is better if you want two PCs.
It does seem a little superfluous to have two PCs if you want a netbook and a low end PC. Aside from cost, there's the extra disadvantage of having to transfer files. I'm surprised there isn't an all in one package available with monitor/USB hub/DVD drive and wireless keyboard/mouse all in one package (or do I just not know what to Google for?).
"The success of net books also surprised Microsoft
Just like every other single technology development.
They didn't expect the PC boom, the internet, social media, search, smart device and now netbooks.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
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pew pew pew!
I can't speak for everyone, but my laptop has been used more for movies than for what I bought it for (mostly a mobile programming platform). It's quite fun watching netflicks instant movies while sitting in the hot tub (with laptop sitting on the side of my grill and sound plugged into our outdoor patio speakers). Having a laptop that displays 1080p with a blu-ray player is nice, too, but due to that resolution it is a bit big - I'll probably have to eventually get a cheap small laptop for true mobility (this one is big even in a backpack).
Erm, hate to tell you this, but I purchased a netbook PRECISELY because the price was as attractive as it was. I wanted a portable system, but the sticker shock on conventional laptops was just beyond what I wanted (or was able) to pay. I can agree, however, that it isn't my primary system, my Linux desktop holds that distinction.
I've used a notebook as my primary computer for years. It still handles the newest games just fine; DMC4, Crysis, etc all play with settings on high at 1680x1050 beautifully. Even in regards to gaming, you can be using comparatively old hardware and still get excellent results if you use GOOD old hardware. It's not like the "old days" where a computer was worthless after 3 years. The reality is that these days the majority of computer users absolutely do not need a high powered system. My wife, for example, runs an old dell notebook, a 1.2ghz dual core amd of some description, with 2gb ram. It'll outperform an Atom, but not by a large margin. She doesn't have the slightest problem with performance. She certainly can't game on it, but it does everything else she needs to do: Largely, web based stuff, non-HD video, etc. Most households have multiple computers these days too - particularly if you count smartphones. There's really only a need for one more powerful system for the odd time you need to actually do something that really requires the horsepower. I'm always on the go. I got my notebook specifically to be mobile with my computing. But really? As a 17" notebook at 8 lbs, it's "portable"... but I never take it anywhere. Packing up it's huge power brick and lugging around the bag, coupled with the awareness that it's still a very expensive machine make it unpleasant to actually travel with. I never, ever game "on the go" I'm looking to pick up a Netbook. The lions share of computer use I do - virtually ALL the computer use I do outside of gaming - is easily handled by one. Further, they are small enough to be stuffed into any random bag, and cheap enough to be moved around freely, without undue concern. If I bang up a $300 notebook, it's not going to hit my like damaging a $2500 notebook. Their batteries (when you get 6 and 9 cell variants at least) power them many times longer than my notebook will run even without doing anything strenuous. Why wouldn't you go Netbook for portable computing?
Meh.
No... that's what I mean; it's not two, it's one netbook that you use as two (unless I misunderstand what you're saying).
There are netbook "packages" that include carrying cases and DVD drives, but I haven't seen one with everything.
Stupid, sexy Flanders.
/. aka the Crysis of on-line forums (tm)
geek- "... yes yes Core i7 and 6Gb of ram and stuff but, does it loads Slashdot?"
clerk- Well yeah, kinda, you have to adjust some deflectors for the tags to work on opera, Good luck with slashcode <b>ROFLOLING</b> at your html tags, intel is developing the state of the art core i9 with that in mind, but beware that it would be ready some time after nehalem release, just in time for Windows 9!. Meanwhile a Denon ethernet cable can help!
geek- *punches the clerk in the face*
Shareholders don't have to see growth, but if they don't, they had better see dividends or share buybacks.
My AMD 500 megahertz laptop is 11 years but that's pushing it (the porn plays back in slow-motion)
Dude ... that's a feature!
The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
Yes, you misunderstand... I was agreeing with you. You just need a single netbook and a base-station that you can plug it into.
Actually, I think a cat that runs 60 miles on a tank of gas would be pretty cool to see :)
But a cat that only runs 60 miles on a tank of gas would be unacceptable
I doubt any cat would run a single mile after being fed a tank of gas, let alone 60. Also, why would anyone do that? That's just sick.
Proud member of the Ferengi Socialist Party.
i haven't had 1 site not work with xp. and not even with linux when windowed in linux it can be choppy but switching to full screen on most stuff fixes that. abought the only site that has linux issues is youtube hd but not in xp.
and the issue there is that they expect to earn more from short term reselling of stocks then long term dividend payouts...
just another gift of the 80's i guess...
comment first, facts later. http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/RelativityofWrong.htm
On your nose.
I know tobacco is bad for you, so I smoke weed with crack.
I'll check when I get in tonight. I've honestly not tried (why try, no HD screen). I'd imagine it would stutter horribly. There is an HD version of the same trailer (from the same source I believe), so it should be apples to apples comparison.
HD on Youtube is like 480p, which is like 850px wide... :)
Well it can handle that just fine. I use the thing like a DVD-less DVD player. It runs everything I've found at screen resolution or less.
It can handle 480p just fine, or it can handle Youtube HD just fine? Regular non-Flash 480p is a lot less taxing :)
SD (that's 480p?) no problem, HD I've had problems with. I have a video (no name or copyright lawsuit) which is 1080 (p or i, can't remember). It was downloaded to my netbook. The video became horribly detached from the audio by at least 4-10 seconds (even at 1:30 into the video). I couldn't tell you the encoding to save my life, but not really pertinent since I've played just about every codec out there at SD resolutions just fine. I'll test out a couple of known files at different quality levels and then comment at this thread.
Actually, I'm talking about Youtube. They have an HD mode (the little button that says "HD"), which isn't really HD, but rather somewhere around DVD resolution (SD on Youtube is something like 200x150 :P). My old EeePC 1000H used to run those videos at about a frame per second - if that. I was wondering if that's been fixed with newer netbooks...
Regular SD DVD rips in XVid/DivX or even H264 weren't a problem.
I'm getting more FPS than you on my 1000HE (tested moments ago), but as a whole it is not watchable. I'd guess 5-8 FPS on HD Youtube content.