Volunteers Wanted For Simulated 520-Day Mars Trip

anglico writes 'Starting in 2010, an international crew of six will simulate a 520-day round-trip to Mars, including a 30-day stay on the martian surface. In reality, they will live and work in a sealed facility in Moscow, Russia, to investigate the psychological and medical aspects of a long-duration space mission. ESA is looking for European volunteers to take part.'

Comments

In Soviet Russia...

[tool462]

Mars goes to you!

Okay, now that's out of the way, only intelligent discussion from here on out. Come on Slashdot, I know you can do it.

Re:In Soviet Russia...

[stoolpigeon]

so close
yet so very far.

Re:In Soviet Russia...

[mcgrew]

only intelligent discussion from here on out.

Yeah, like that's going to happen...

Re:In Soviet Russia...

[ByOhTek]

true on too many levels.

By the way, shouldn't that quote be attributed to 1?

Re:In Soviet Russia...

[bsDaemon]

Hey, he only said intelligent... he didn't say serious or topical. We can get on with the smart and poignant wit now. w00t!

Re:In Soviet Russia...

[davester666]

It needs an element of reality, such as a vacuum chamber around the compartments/rooms these pseudo-astro/cosmo/euronauts will use, and if a leak is detected, the area along with the -nauts all get blown up...

Re:In Soviet Russia...

[Anonymous Coward]

Is there any way we can combine this into an interdisciplinary role with the marijuane reviewer job?

http://idle.slashdot.org/story/09/10/21/1535217/Colorado-Newspaper-Looking-for-Marijuana-Reviewer

I mean WOW

"Hey what did you do this year?"
"Oh systems analysis, architecture, etc. How about you?"
"I WAS STONED ON MARS"

Re:In Soviet Russia...

[Anonymous Coward]

In Soviet Russia...

Well, I'm more concerned about the actual target of this mission. They talk about a "crew of six" and 520 lonely days. If the crew is males only, I wonder whether the target will indeed be Mars or, more likely, Uranus.

Re:In Soviet Russia...

[brasscount]

When they say Red Planet, i guess they really mean, RED planet...

Re:In Soviet Russia...

[Mikkeles]

'... ESA is looking for European volunteers to take part.'

Shit, I was going to volunteer my wife!

Not really, dear, it's just a jo... Ow!

Re:In Soviet Russia...

[stoolpigeon]

I'm attributing the work, not the character. It is confusing I'll admit, but I'm not sure just putting 1 in the place of 9 would make it any clearer.

Re:In Soviet Russia...

[Have Brain Will Rent]

They could take the Strata Council (condo board) of my building. I'll even help push them through the airlock.

This is not new

[Ceiynt]

See: Biodome. The failed movie or the failed experiment.

Re:This is not new

[Ngarrang]

See: Biodome. The failed movie or the failed experiment.

Biodome was a different kind of experiment. There, they were trying to create a self-sustaining Martian colony. The Russians are conducting a much simpler experiment...stick a bunch of people into a metal tube for year and a half and see if they go looney or not. From the article, it doesn't mention if the mission has to live on the same water or not, or a slowly dwindling food supply. But, that is probably secondary to the just-as-dangerous mental effects isolation being targeted for study.

Re:This is not new

[Ceiynt]

Have they not seen the last 15 years of MTV? The Real World will tell them all they need to know about putting a group of strangers together in a tight space for an extended time.

Re:This is not new

[Tablizer]

The Russians are conducting a much simpler experiment...stick a bunch of people into a metal tube for year and a half and see if they go looney or not.

All they have to do is check last century's Gulag records.
       

Re:This is not new

[wizardforce]

An experiment is only a failure if you don't learn anything from it.

Re:This is not new

[YouWantFriesWithThat]

except that it won't be vapid, over-privileged 20-somethings that are fed with alcohol to increase the likelihood of fights and random sex.

ahem. not that i have watched the show, or something.

Re:This is not new

[damburger]

Biodome wasn't good science, if I can remember correctly. Beneath a very reasonable idea (trying to create a self-contained artificial biosphere that can support humans) there was a lot of hippie crap thrown in; things about trying to replicate every different ecosystem found on earth, and having rock pools and stuff. Thing is, the whole grow-plants-to-let-the-humans-breathe idea was well explored by the Soviets decades earlier - rather than piss around creating a Zen garden they just used boring old algae beds. And they, AFAIK, didn't need an injection of oxygen half way through the experiment.

Re:This is not new

[Anonymous Monkey]

On the other hand, a mars colony is basacly going to be a hamster cage for people. Imagine living with just four plastic walls and an algae tank to look at. It would be like work without internet. I would rather have rock pools and some place to pretend I was on earth.

Re:This is not new

[Lumpy]

They already did this, read the logs of all the Mir space station missions....

Re:This is not new

[R2.0]

I could have sworn there was another experiment in Russia just like this, only larger scale. Some guy named Solzhenitsyn authored the study results.

Re:This is not new

[DerekLyons]

See: Biodome. The failed movie or the failed experiment.

 
Biosphere 2 was designed by ecological mystics with a minimum of engineering and scientific support to meet specific environmental, ecological, philosophical, and quasi-religious goals. This lead them to make many costly errors;

• They tried to leap from a laboratory bench experiment to a full scale operating facility, which lead to many problems.
• They were well along in construction before the discovered the windows wouldn't work - resulting a lengthy and expensive delay to develop new windows.
• Late in construction they discovered that they hadn't accounted for changes in atmospheric volume due to temperature changes - resulting in the (expensive) last minute addition of the 'lungs'.
• They never ran a small scale simulation with animals and insects, or a small scale simulation long enough to allow plants to spread - resulting in the discovery of multiple nasty interactions between the various ecological elements inside Biosphere.
• Because of the lengthy delays in construction and the lack of scientific and engineering rigor in the design of the 'experiment' they rushed to perform the first lockout mission - without properly testing and commissioning the facility.
• The 'Bionauts' were chosen on the basis of political and philosophical correctness and acceptability rather than being a properly selected and trained team.

Etc... etc... etc..
 
In short, Biosphere 2 isn't a valid standard to judge such experiments by. Sadly, it was such a highly visible flop and so few people are aware of the reasons why, they've poisoned the well for decades and rendered it difficult for actual scientists and engineers to gain funding and acceptance for such work. As shown by your comment...

Re:This is not new

[Arthur Grumbine]

An experiment is only a failure if you don't learn anything from it.

Or if what you learn has nothing to do with the subject matter of the experiment, like: Don't let hippies design biology experiments. A worthwhile thing to know, but not essentially related to the study of "artificial self-sufficient human-sustaining environments".

Re:This is not new

[dave562]

Exactly. On Real World and other shows of the same ilk the producers purposefully find people who are more than likely not going to be able to get along with each other. It's a good bet that the experimenters will go to great lengths to take an almost polar opposite approach when selecting their subjects for the Martian experiment.

Re:This is not new

[megamerican]

The Soviets were no Nazi's when it came to record keeping. In fact it was so bad people would disappear from photographs!

Re:This is not new

[syousef]

An experiment is only a failure if you don't learn anything from it.

Another word for a failed experiment is "corporation".

Re:This is not new

[Tubal-Cain]

...there was a lot of hippie crap thrown in; things about trying to replicate every different ecosystem found on earth, and having rock pools and stuff. Thing is, the whole grow-plants-to-let-the-humans-breathe idea was well explored by the Soviets decades earlier - rather than piss around creating a Zen garden they just used boring old algae beds.

On that note: How much CO2 can a (house)plant convert to O2 in a day?

Re:This is not new

[Korin43]

You could always have algae pools to make the oxygen, and then some plants to make the place look pretty. It's not one of the other..

Re:This is not new

[EdIII]

I would rather have rock pools and some place to pretend I was on earth.

Fuck pretending about Earth. I would rather have the masturbation pod. Some sort of self-sustaining lubricant producing plant, mood lighting, and all the latest porn transmitted from Earth. Give the women a Sybian or some equivalent shit too.

I guarantee you an hour a day in one of THOSE pods and I just might not mind looking at bunch of plastic walls and algae tanks. Or to put it another way... without the masturbation pods I guarantee you they will be sending up a 2nd mission to find out what went wrong with the 1st mission.

Re:This is not new

[fritsd]

Another (hippie??) lesson could be summarised as "designing a self-sufficient human-sustaining environment is HARD. So don't destroy the only currently working specimen we know."
So, I concur with GP, that an experiment is only a failure if you don't learn anything from it.

Re:This is not new

[Anonymous Coward]

What's wrong with biodome? It didn't work as hoped, but we learned plenty from exactly how it failed, and what worked. Enough that the next one will last longer. Repeat a few dozen more times and we'll get all the way there, eventually.

And anyway, as someone else pointed out, Biodome wasn't about humans (well, not *just* about humans) but about exactly what we need to build a self-sustaining habitat. This one is just about how to get a group of people to live, locked in a single room for two years... without killing each other or ending up insane. Presumably they'll introduce artificial bandwidth caps on outside communication and introduce larger and large lags to simulate the ~30 minute round trip to mars and back for communications.

Re:This is not new

[Eternauta3k]

How much CO2 can a (house)plant convert to O2 in a day?

Well, if you want O2 produced-O2 consumed, you're gonna have to do some sort of math with the mass gained by the plant. That mass comes from CO2, the rest of CO2 that is photosynthesized turns into sugars which are metabolized, yielding CO2 again. AFAIK.

Re:This is not new

[JWSmythe]

    This, coming from a guy sitting in his mothers basement, with the lights dimmed, so his visible universe exists within the bubble of the dim glow of his monitors?

    Who are we kidding? Most of us work in cube farms or datacenters (or both). In either one, the only way we'd ever see a freakin' rock pool would be to Google It.

    You go from your isolated work environment, to your mode of transport where you're exposed to a primarily utilitarian environment (i.e., roads), to our (for most of us) utilitarian homes. People survive very nicely like this.

    Give me a room with a desk, bed, couch, TV (and a serious supply of DVD's), a supply of food more than long enough for the duration, or a sustainable supply (i.e., hydroponic garden), and the algae pit for a nice fresh supply of oxygen, and I'd be more than content.

    It's possible to have an Internet connection. They'd just need to simulate a serious lag. Probably limit it to FidoNet style email and FREQ, and accept the fact that any communications may get there eventually, but don't hold your breath.

Re:This is not new

[jotaeleemeese]

"The 'Bionauts' were chosen on the basis of political and philosophical correctness and acceptability rather than being a properly selected and trained team."

Are you saying that the US would chose a member of the US Communist party or a person openly supporting the KKK if either has impeccable Engineering credentials?

Re:This is not new

[Anonymous Coward]

In short, Biosphere 2 isn't a valid standard to judge such experiments by. Sadly, it was such a highly visible flop and so few people are aware of the reasons why, they've poisoned the well for decades and rendered it difficult for actual scientists and engineers to gain funding and acceptance for such work

Not for Mark Burnett, though

Re:This is not new

[redalien]

Hold on, back up a second there. The soviets WEREN'T nazis?

Re:This is not new

[Actually, I do RTFA]

Some sort of self-sustaining lubricant producing plant, mood lighting, and all the latest porn transmitted from Earth. Give the women a Sybian or some equivalent shit too.

Only on Slashdot would someone trying to use sex to stave off boredom, in a mixed gender pool, suggest everyone be given masterbatory aides.

And only on Slashdot would it be modded insightful.

Re:This is not new

[Tablizer]

In a good flame-war, everybody's a Nazi :-)

Re:This is not new

[geekoid]

yes, but you can have the in addition to plants.

Re:This is not new

[Anonymous Monkey]

Um..No I go from my cube to my bike to my apartment with my wife. The windows are normally open and I have a great view of the mountains. We spend our vacations camping (as in tents, fire and bacon, not FSPs) I couldn't live with DVD's because I've figured out the end by the first five minus of most films. You might be able to handle it but it would drive me nuts.

Re:This is not new

[JWSmythe]

Um..No I go from my cube to my bike to my apartment with my wife. The windows are normally open and I have a great view of the mountains. We spend our vacations camping (as in tents, fire and bacon, not FSPs) I couldn't live with DVD's because I've figured out the end by the first five minus of most films. You might be able to handle it but it would drive me nuts.
--
We are the Borg...

Sorry I had to quote the whole thing, but I had to bold it appropriately. Wouldn't Borg not have emotions, nor care about the pesky things like what the view looks like.

Or more based in reality, wouldn't someone who's enough of a Sci Fi fan to quote a secondary species of a spinoff of a long running show, be stereotypically locked in a darkened room with computer and TV, and not much else. Well, caffeine and nicotine are other predominant items, but.... I just quit smoking.

--
Nomen mihi Legio est, quia multi sumus.

Re:This is not new

[Anonymous Coward]

Dave: HAL, we're five months out on our 9-month journey to Jupiter! For God's sake, open up the masturbation chamber!

HAL: I'm sorry Dave, I can't let you do that.

520 people, that's a big ship

[syntap]

And a lot of beer, card games, and magazines to pass the time.

Re:520 people, that's a big ship

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, looks like you have had too much beer already. You're out.

Re:520 people, that's a big ship

[Anonymous Coward]

Yup. You read that right. 520 people for a 6 day party.

Re:520 people, that's a big ship

[natehoy]

Obviously you're reading this from the perspective of a project manager.

"If it takes 520 days for 6 people to get to Mars, we'll get 520 people and make it in 6 days!"

Re:520 people, that's a big ship

[FrameRotBlues]

You know, if they sent 520 people, at least there'd be some_thing_ to do... because there'd be some_one_ to do...

Lame joke, I know, but on a serious note I bet the more people they add to the experiment, the less likely everyone is to go batshit insane.

Re:520 people, that's a big ship

[Ceiynt]

The group of 6 people better include more then one female, otherwise they will have at least one if not 3+ dead when they come back. If it's a group of 6 men, odds are still someone will not make it out alive.

Re:520 people, that's a big ship

[damburger]

Yeah, because what a group of forcibly confined men really need to help them get along is to throw some totty into the middle of them.

Re:520 people, that's a big ship

[Jerry Smith]

The group of 6 people better include more then one female, otherwise they will have at least one if not 3+ dead when they come back. If it's a group of 6 men, odds are still someone will not make it out alive.

IIRC one time they tried this, there wás a female on board, and it caused problems. But last time it consisted of 6 males, http://www.reuters.com/article/scienceNews/idUSTRE52U4PT20090331 . And I would not bet on having females in this crew either.

Re:520 people, that's a big ship

[Jerry Smith]

Found it: http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn11529-earthbound-experiment-to-recreate-stress-of-mars-mission.html .

Russia has conducted shorter simulations in the past and has seen firsthand the issues that arise, including sexual harassment. In an eight-month IMBP simulation in 2000, a Russian man twice tried to kiss a Canadian female researcher after two other Russians had gotten into a bloody brawl.

Re:520 people, that's a big ship

[Walkingshark]

Send six lesbians and install webcams. Might as well make some profit off it right?

Re:520 people, that's a big ship

[natehoy]

I would guess the optimal male:female ratio to be best expressed by the term "divide by zero". In other words, all male or all female.

Actually, that doesn't express the problem sufficiently, because if you have an all-one-gender crew and discover you have three homosexuals on board, Houston, we have a problem. Love triangle alert.

The best way to express it would be six people, none of whom are sexually attracted to any one of the others, or three very stable couples, or some other dynamic that does not allow the buildup of sexual tension.

Woody Allen had it right. They can pick anyone they want for the crew as long as each person has an Orgasmotron(*) in their quarters.

(* not sure if I got the spelling right, and I ain't looking it up for fear of what I might find).

Re:520 people, that's a big ship

[AP31R0N]

Don't forget lotion and privacy.

Re:520 people, that's a big ship

[FrankieBaby1986]

Better yet, make it 3 couples. Couples who have proven to be able to function well. Otherwise competition over mates will end up killing somebody with just as much or more likeliness as 6 men.

Maybe 6 eunuchs is the best way to go?

Re:520 people, that's a big ship

[Anonymous Coward]

The group of 6 people better include more then one female, otherwise they will have at least one if not 3+ dead when they come back. If it's a group of 6 men, odds are still someone will not make it out alive.

That's a twentieth-century sex-positive viewpoint. Actually, almost all of the great voyages of exploration, including the (multi-year) Arctic and Antarctic expeditions of Shackleton, were done with all-male crews.

In terms of violence, there's actually something to be said for all-male crews: with no women, what's the point of fighting?

Re:520 people, that's a big ship

[fritsd]

So they haven't tried an female-only crew yet, then. Preferably vegans (what are you going to eat for a year? cows? frozen hamburgers?). Preferably short. Preferably black (better UV resistance at the destination; don't know if it also helps against cosmic radiation though..) Add the male compartment of the crew in the form of a Dewar barrel with frozen sperm in case they want to build a colony.
I for one welcome our Martian vegan lesbian Pigmy colonist overladies!
<flamebait>Mars might even be a more welcoming habitat than Congo/Rwanda</flamebait>

Re:520 people, that's a big ship

[tftp]

So they haven't tried an female-only crew yet, then.

IMO six females are just as likely to become unhappy as six males.

what are you going to eat for a year? cows? frozen hamburgers?

Meat has lots of calories and can be transported dried and frozen, if necessary. You can't do that with stored vegetables. The ones you grow on board you eat, of course.

Re:520 people, that's a big ship

[Hybrid-brain]

read A door into Ocean or The Left Hand of Darkness. Ocean is about an all female world that gets along well without males and Ocean is about an all male world that gets alone well without Females. This can be done, just as long as the gov't doesn't screw up this time.

Re:520 people, that's a big ship

[Anonymous Coward]

Step one: Send up 3 couples Step Two: Send up a couple or so Webcams Step Three: Make sure that whoever is in charge is clear that orgies are welcome Step four:? Step Five: PROFIT!!!

Re:520 people, that's a big ship

[jd2112]

No, fire 2 of the 6, make the remaining 4 work 60-80 hours/week, drop all planning and testing from the project schedule, predict completion in 180 days, and bail before the s*it hits the fan.

Re:520 people, that's a big ship

[im_thatoneguy]

So what you're saying is that past research has found that Russians shouldn't go to Mars?

Re:520 people, that's a big ship

[Anonymous Coward]

Your math is totaly flawed. hand in your geek card please.
if it takes 6 days to take 520 people to mars, it takes 520/6*520 = 45066.666 days to take 520 people to mars.

Re:520 people, that's a big ship

[Jedi Alec]

The best way to express it would be six people, none of whom are sexually attracted to any one of the others, or three very stable couples, or some other dynamic that does not allow the buildup of sexual tension.

Throw in 520 days in an isolated environment, and none of the above starting parameters has a glimmer of a chance of making it through.

Re:520 people, that's a big ship

[natehoy]

That's why these experiments are critical.

Re:520 people, that's a big ship

[iguana]

Obviously you're reading this from the perspective of a project manager.

"If it takes 520 days for 6 people to get to Mars, we'll get 520 people and make it in 6 days!"

I'm now logging off the internet, forever.

I will never EVER again read anything simultaneously so true, so sad, and so funny.

Re:520 people, that's a big ship

[drsquare]

That's great until they all start cheating on each other.

Re:520 people, that's a big ship

[Anonymous Coward]

Russians should not mingle with other nationalities.

why 520 days?!

[GerardAtJob]

They doesn't know about the new Canadian engine?

Re:why 520 days?!

[Culture20]

Forget Canadian engines. I just want to know if there will be any Canadian women in the simulation.

Re:why 520 days?!

[oldspewey]

Wouldn't that suck? Spending 8 months in transit to Mars only to find a crowd waiting for you once you land: "yeah, we actually invented this really cool new engine like the week after you guys took off."

Re:why 520 days?!

[nizo]

That is part of the experiment:

"Today we measure the effects on the crew as they watch a ship zoom by, launched after their ship and reaching Mars many months before they do".

Re:why 520 days?!

[aicrules]

Just because an engine CAN make the trip 39 (or is it 89) days, doesn't mean it will take that short a time. Given all the different things that they would likely have to account for, 245 days to get from Earth to Mars ain't that bad. And if the engines can get you there faster? Great! Then you're actually doing a simulated trip to somewhere many times farther away! Deep space exploration may eventually require people to spend years in space. Nothing wrong with building in tolerance levels far beyond what is actually necessary.

Re:why 520 days?!

[Yvan256]

I don't know where you live, but here months have much less than 65 days.

Re:why 520 days?!

[cmiller173]

520 days - 30 days for the simulated stay on the surface = 490 days round trip or slightly more that 16 months BOTH ways. Since oldspewey seems to be talking only about the outbound leg 8 months is about right. You are right though a month does in fact have less than 65 days.

Re:why 520 days?!

[KlaasVaak]

Fewer!

Re:why 520 days?!

[Yvan256]

The headline title just said "520 day", I went with that.

Re:why 520 days?!

[Anonymous Coward]

Same here. But 8 months there, one month on the surface, and 8 months return trip is about... oh 520 days?

Re:why 520 days?!

[Yvan256]

The headline says "simulated 520 day Mars trip", not "1040 days".

Re:why 520 days?!

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't know where you live, but here a 520 day isolation period representing a round trip with a one-month layover works out to approximately 8 months in either direction, assuming the time will be equal.

Re:why 520 days?!

[Eravau]

I understand not reading the article (this is /. after all), but the summary says clearly:

520-day round-trip to Mars, including a 30-day stay on the martian surface

That means 520 days total for trip = 245 days going + 30 days on planet + 245 days back home

The 245 day trip there = ~8 months, each with an average length of 30.625 days

Re:why 520 days?!

[Anonymous Coward]

Since when has not reading even the summary been a defensible position? Isn't it standard to TFA people who don't read the article, nevermind the flaming attached to not reading the summary?

Re:why 520 days?!

[Anonymous Coward]

The headline title just said "520 day", I went with that.

Not only that, he only read seven characters out of the title.

Re:why 520 days?!

[Anonymous Coward]

i think there was a twilight zone episode along these lines once.

Re:why 520 days?!

[Shotgun]

Yeah, but not as bad as spending 520 days in a Mars trip simulation, only to come out and find that once you come out: "yeah, we actually invented this really cool new engine like the week after you guys went in."

Re:why 520 days?!

[CastrTroy]

My thoughts exactly. With ion engines looking ready for testing on a moon mission in 2013, there's really no reason to be thinking about these multi year trips to Mars. The ion engines are supposed to get to Mars in 39 days, which is quick enough to not have to wait for the planets to realign again for the trip back.

Re:why 520 days?!

[R2.0]

How about "Why the fuck didn't you stop and pick us up? You probably passes within a few thousand kilometers - would it have killed you to go out of your way?"

Re:why 520 days?!

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't know where you live, but here months have much less than 65 days.

520 Days is round trip.

Re:why 520 days?!

[aes123]

Yeah! They were talking about a simulated one-way trip. At the end of the experiment, all of the volunteers will be suffocated or killed in a fire.

Re:why 520 days?!

[cmiller173]

By the time they passed the difference in velocity would have made that difficult. Of course, by the time they had actually built a ship with the new engine and launched it the first ship would probably be back. It's not like we have a bunch of man worthy spaceship hulls laying about ready to just strap an engine in.

Re:why 520 days?!

[Anonymous Coward]

520 days round-trip. 30 of those days are spent on the surface, leaving 490 days of travel. 490/2 = 245 days each way. 245/8 = about 30 days. Is any part of this still unclear to you?

Re:why 520 days?!

[alphaseven]

Wouldn't that suck? Spending 8 months in transit to Mars only to find a crowd waiting for you once you land: "yeah, we actually invented this really cool new engine like the week after you guys took off."

In case that sounds familiar, it's similar to the plot of a memorable short story from the 1940s, A.E. van Vogt's ‘Far Centaurus’.

As I vaguely remember it , Astronauts get frozen and go off for hundreds of years and find out that faster than light travel has been invented and the Alpha Centauri system had already been colonized.

Re:why 520 days?!

[Anonymous Coward]

Go read Peter F. Hamilton's Commonwealth Saga.

Re:why 520 days?!

[Anonymous Coward]

Aw hell, I read a story like that but can't remember the name OR the author. Help!

Basically by the time the (cryogenic) astronauts reached the planet the descendants of the astronauts who succeeded them had evolved to the point that they wanted the smelly hairy guys from the past to get lost after their novelty wore off.

[Edit - captcha is FIREFLY. I'm grinning now, teehee!]

Re:why 520 days?!

[Anonymous Coward]

Both of you only read 6 characters, or maybe 7 with one out-of-order.

Re:why 520 days?!

[stillnotelf]

Peter F. Hamilton did it in the Commonwealth Saga (Pandora's Star & Judas Unchained) as well. Some astronauts went to Mars, but some grad students at Caltech invented a wormhole generator in the meantime, so after the astronauts landed the students popped open a wormhole and joined them in a home-made space suit. The astronauts ended up returning through the wormhole and they just left the Martian lander as a museum piece.

Re:why 520 days?!

[Maelwryth]

Pandora's Star, first chapter.

Re:ATTENTION

[josteos]

I vote for YOU!

Your out-of-this-world post suggests you are overqualified for the experiment.

Let them play WOW

[Shivetya]

I figure it this way. They need to pass a lot of downtime. Let them play a MMORPG. Then if your really creative you can let them farm gold and pay for the trip by selling the gold and characters they create.

Well I am kind of serious about the first part. Its going to take something highly addictive to keep them occupied during the trip there and back. Certain types of games would do it just fine. If you could find a way of combining learning into them all the better, but in some ways mindless entertainment may be key.

Re:Let them play WOW

[WoRLoKKeD]

What's the current world record for the longest game of Monopoly?

If all goes to plan, they will combine Monopoly and, if it turns out like every other Monopoly game in the history of the human race, Battle Royale.

Re:Let them play WOW

[jandrese]

The lag is going to be murder once they get a good distance to Mars.

It should be noted that NASA has long had a problem with the reality of space flight vs. their selection process. Their astronaut selection process tends to weed out all but the most motivated adventurous go-getters who tend to go crazy when asked to do basically nothing for 6 months.

Re:Let them play WOW

[icebrain]

It's kinda hard to play real-time interactive games when you're dealing with round-trip signal times of up to 40 minutes... I think that would knock out MMO games. Now something like split-screen Halo, on the other hand, doesn't require that, but is more likely to forment anger amongst the crew.

On the gripping hand, the old naval solution would probably work best. That is, keep the crew occupied with enough busywork that they don't have time to piss each other off. This was the standard practice on old sailing men of war; you needed large crews for combat/damage repair and for certain shipkeeping tasks, but otherwise they sat around with little to do. Hence, rituals of inspection, holystoning the deck, etc. This is also why modern crew-reduction initiatives on ships can backfire; smaller crews have a harder time performing damage control than larger ones.

Anyways, for a Mars mission you need a lot of crew for the surface exploration in order to get as much data as possible; the cruise phases (for the most part) have little for them to do. They'd likely be occoupied running different experiments and performing regular maintenance, and exercising (a lot) rather than just being couch kudzu.

Re:Let them play WOW

[DavidTC]

They couldn't play normal WoW, because of the lag.

I am assuming that this 'trip' will correctly simulate speed-of-light delay, right? And bandwidth issues?

From what I can tell, they're not simulating the technical aspects of the trip, just 'locked up for 17 months', just the social ones, but hopefully they're doing that. (And even stuff like 'Okay, today we made it to Mars, so you're going to have to run around like madmen for a few hours pushing whatever button we light up to simulate the stress and work of landing')

They could, however, have computer lan with servers specifically set up for gaming. And both multiplayer and single player games. Oh, and give them a mirror of wikipedia.

From what I understand, sending from spacecraft is a power issue, and attempting to build low power transmitters is why we always have problems in that regard. But sending to them isn't an issue at all, especially if we're willing to only contact them 15% of the time, we can put a big honking transmitter on ISS or something. So we could even send them new games and stuff.

Re:Let them play WOW

[tverbeek]

Mindlessly addictive games seem like exactly the wrong approach to pass the time. You might as well just put them in a light coma instead. On the other hand, I would pay for 520-day sabbatical from the world during which I could write and illustrate a graphic novel, or some other creative pursuit that's otherwise frustrated by the distractions of Life On Earth. Also give me some ebooks to read, and maybe a limited quantity of mindless passive entertainment for seasoning, and I'd be happy.

Re:Let them play WOW

[i.r.id10t]

A lot of the social issues are well studied already, or at least should be. For example, submarine service in the various navies of the world.

Re:Let them play WOW

[ae1294]

What's the current world record for the longest game of Monopoly?

Microsoft? no wait... US Steal??? damnit.. I'm no good at pop quiz's...

Re:Let them play WOW

[mewsenews]

Their astronaut selection process tends to weed out all but the most motivated adventurous go-getters who tend to go crazy when asked to do basically nothing for 6 months.

Amen! As I understand it the first astronauts were test pilots, familiar with confined cockpits, long periods of total boredom, and incredible risk of a human roasting giant fireball. Why they ever went away from those men with way too much bravado, I'll never know.

Re:Let them play WOW

[Yetihehe]

Also give me some ebooks to read

Ebooks would be the only choice on such trip. During 520 days I could read more paper books than I weigh.

Re:Let them play WOW

[thisnamestoolong]

For the real trip to Mars, any direct connection to the Internet will (obviously) be futile, but I think that they would do well to give each astronaut a souped up PC with several TB of hard drive space, full to the brim with games, movies, music, e-books, and whatever else they might want. They could even set up a LAN and wallop on each other in Starcraft 2 or something. Or maybe include another computer as a dedicated server for MW2. The possibilities are endless!

Re:Let them play WOW

[S77IM]

"We're going to lock you in this metal box, blast it into outer space on a giant pile of explosives, and then you'll drink your own urine for 6 months and crash-land in the ocean."

I think that kind of requires an adventurous go-getter attitude.

  -- 77IM

Re:Let them play WOW

[CrimsonAvenger]

A lot of the social issues are well studied already, or at least should be. For example, submarine service in the various navies of the world.

Speaking from experience as a submariner, I must disagree.

Among other differences are the rather large size of the boat's crew (comparatively speaking) and the mission duration.

For a submarine, four months is a long voyage.

And there aren't enough ways to divvy up six guys so that you can rearrange things so that two guys getting on each other's nerves can be kept apart.

Re:Let them play WOW

[L33TRice]

Forget MMO's, let them play Dungeons and Dragons. Hell, I know some people who would PAY to do nothing but sit around and play DnD for that long. And that doesn't take anything but some pens, paper and a few gigs of pirated DnD rulebook PDFs and you're set for both the trip there and back (Oh, and some mountain dew and nachos).

Re:Let them play WOW

[mewsenews]

"We're going to lock you in this metal box [...] for 6 months [...]"

I think that kind of requires an adventurous go-getter attitude.

This is Slashdot. If sitting on my ass for 6 months is an adventure, then I'm Buzz Lightyear.

Re:Let them play WOW

[Anonymous Coward]

LOL

ARGH! No mod points, damn it.

AC always makes the best mods

Re:Let them play WOW

[Ceiynt]

I am interested in your experiment and wish to partake in it, where do I send the check?

Re:Let them play WOW

[BoredAtWorkWhatElse]

Or maybe include another computer as a dedicated server for MW2.

I saw what you did there.

Re:Let them play WOW

[cpotoso]

Indeed, they should instead select a bunch of couch potatoes that will be more than happy to play video games all day for many months!

Re:Let them play WOW

[snspdaarf]

You had me at the explosives. Everything else is just icing on the cake.

Re:Let them play WOW

[daveime]

At least with the lag time to Mars, they'd get a chance to read it before the DRM server wipes it from their Kindles.

Re:Let them play WOW

[Anonymous Coward]

Okay, but if there's any girls there, I wanna DO THEM!

Re:Let them play WOW

[Locke2005]

Let them play a MMORPG. To make it more realistic, make the ping times increase gradually to about 2 weeks at the end of the 520 day experiment. That'll show 'em!

Re:Let them play WOW

[sznupi]

Yeah...couldn't they just select individuals who are used to similar disfunctional enviroments (and at the same time also excited with the goals; there should be some...) instead of going with "stars" (in normal social contexts)?

Re:Let them play WOW

[AliasMarlowe]

The duration of the mission is the problem. Hormones will cause problems over an extended period with a small unisex crew, or a mixed crew of any size.
For example, with one third of its crew female, the USS Acadia acquired the sobriquet "the love boat". In a single deployment to the Persian Gulf in late 1990, 36 members of its crew got pregnant.

Re:Let them play WOW

[DarthVain]

WHOW Latency batman!

Re:Let them play WOW

[Quirkz]

Just send a bunch of programmers or novelists. Either group only needs their computer and their brain, and they can have massive output without taking up any physical space. They also get to walk away from the project with a year and a half of material, rather than having just lost a year and a half to being a hamster. Poses an interesting question, though. If you write a novel during the experiment, is it the Great Martian Novel or the Great Russian Novel?

Re:Let them play WOW

[kaizokuace]

I'm thinking Standard Oil?

Re:Let them play WOW

[megamerican]

What's the current world record for the longest game of Monopoly?
 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_of_London_Corporation

Re:Let them play WOW

[Bakkster]

Probably because they wanted trained scientists and engineers who could more efficiently perform experiments, and with larger crew sizes fewer pilots were needed for successful space travel. It's a lot easier to teach a scientist how to be a good passenger than to teach a pilot how to be a good scientist.

For an interesting look at the difficulties, read the Apollo 11 radio transcripts, where the geologists on the ground tried to prod Aldrin and Armstrong into giving useful observations.

Re:Let them play WOW

[Anonymous Coward]

Mindlessly addictive games seem like exactly the wrong approach to pass the time. You might as well just put them in a light coma instead. On the other hand, I would pay for 520-day sabbatical from the world during which I could write and illustrate a graphic novel, or some other creative pursuit that's otherwise frustrated by the distractions of Life On Earth.

My guess is that's not actually true. After even a few days the lack of normal stimulation would cause your creative batteries to decharge and you'd get nothing done on the graphic novel.

Re:Let them play WOW

[R2.0]

"And there aren't enough ways to divvy up six guys so that you can rearrange things so that two guys getting on each other's nerves can be kept apart."

Sure you can - just spend the first week figuring out who's going to be the bitch and then everyone takes their frustrations out on him.

Or have I been watching too many prison dramas?

Re:Let them play WOW

[BitZtream]

You think lag is bad now, just going to the moon gives you an 8 second lag, the sun is 8 minutes one way. Depending on where Earth and Mars are in their orbits during the trip, the lag could be well over 10 minutes in one direction.

Thats going to make playing an MMO rather ... bad, even without the twitch associated with a FPS.

Re:Let them play WOW

[BitZtream]

Why are they going to do nothing? Do people on the ISS sit around and do nothing while they are there?

They would most certainly be running experiments for the duration of the trip, both directions. It would waste a lot of time if they just sit there, and all the energy expended to get the thing up there and moving on its way could at least be useful to some experiments.

Don't think of it as sending a ship to Mars. Think of it as sending the ISS to Mars. There would likely be plenty to do.

Re:Let them play WOW

[sconeu]

You should also look at Chaikin's "A Man on the Moon", in particular, the chapter on Apollo 15.

Re:Let them play WOW

[tverbeek]

During 520 days I could read more paper books than I weigh.

But how would you measure that in freefall? :)

Re:Let them play WOW

[tverbeek]

My creative batteries hold more of a charge than that.

Re:Let them play WOW

[tool462]

There'd be enough time for one game of Civ 3.

Re:Let them play WOW

[PaganRitual]

The freaky part is that only 28 members of the crew were female.

Re:Let them play WOW

[shermo]

I'm used to it, I play from New Zealand.

Re:Let them play WOW

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't think you would want them to play WoW. As the summary states, they want to observe the psychological consequences of a 520-day Mars trip. Now, one would think that part of what happens on such trips is a feeling of isolation. It's not like you come into contact with that many people up there, and you can't really phone (or browse) home all that much. Letting people play an MMORPG would mean letting them communicate with the outside world, which would mean that the experiment is less in touch with reality than it could be. So yeah. Another objection that might not have much substance (IANAffiliated with any space exploration agencies) would be that computers use electricity. As I said I have no idea how much leftover electricity one normally has on a spacecraft, but you would think that making the batteries as small as possible would be a good idea, seeing as carrying too much into space is pretty costly.

Re:Let them play WOW

[Totenglocke]

What's the current world record for the longest game of Monopoly?

Microsoft? no wait... US Steal??? damnit.. I'm no good at pop quiz's...

Wrong on both counts. The correct answer was government . Government is the longest running monopoly of all time. Thanks for playing though!

Re:Let them play WOW

[nschubach]

I'll admit ignorance on this, but shouldn't we include Ma Bell and the Post Office or is it unfair to include government initiated monopolies?

Re:Let them play WOW

[DerekLyons]

As I understand it the first astronauts were test pilots, familiar with confined cockpits, long periods of total boredom, and incredible risk of a human roasting giant fireball. Why they ever went away from those men with way too much bravado, I'll never know.

Because it turned out that so long as spacecraft and spaceflight were like the environments test pilots were used to, strapped into a confined cockpit for a few hours, test pilots were good candidates. Unfortunately, once the Mercury program was over, the nature of the flights started to change (and have changed even more radically since then), and test pilots are no longer a good fit.

Re:Let them play WOW

[tftp]

How you can measure your mass in space: link

Re:Let them play WOW

[Anonymous Coward]

all work and no play makes jack a dull boy. This comment would be funnier, but it violated the postercomment compression filter for repetition.

Re:Let them play WOW

[Henry Pate]

The Right Stuff by Tom Wolfe is an excellent book about the early days of the Mercury program. The first astronauts were test pilots but they felt the Mercury program made them glorified monkeys sitting in a can. The flight of the rocket was computer controlled and they were only along for the ride, test pilots were on the bleeding edge of flight where they had control.

When Chuck Yeager was trying to beat the previous speed record of Mach 2 he managed to get to Mach 2.44 then lost aerodynamic control at 80,000ft, the airplane tumbled down 51,000ft in 51 seconds before he was able to regain control. He managed to land the plane safely.

-1 Offtopic

Re:Let them play WOW

[Caue]

that's only impressive if you'd let us know how many people were on the boat. So if it was 100 people, a few men had to get pregnant (woodstock). If it was 1000, 10% of the female populace got pregnant.(love fest) 10.000 would be 1% of the female populace (not such an impressive number).

Re:Let them play WOW

[ae1294]

but shouldn't we include Ma Bell and the Post Office

Ma Bell o yeah... Post Office is unfair since it wasn't really a for profit for most of its life and when the US was created it was a very important part.

Re:Let them play WOW

[ae1294]

The correct answer was government

I hate government as much as the next guy but it does serve many useful purposes. It's really our own fault we've let it get so out of control.

Re:Let them play WOW

[Jedi Alec]

Hmmmm...a spaceship containing all the knowledge of the human race speeding away from earth, desperately trying to stay ahead of the signal sent by a rogue DRM server. Explosions! Excitement!

Think SyFy would buy the script? Would probably require a lot of sex and teenage angst to really go down well though.

Re:Let them play WOW

[Totenglocke]

I think it's more the military's fault for not upholding their oath to protect the Constitution. Really, what can normal people do when elections are pretty much rigged on who you're can vote for and the military will blindly do whatever the government asks? If you dare to defy the government and try to uphold the Constitution, you're a "terrorist" and the military won't think twice about killing you for daring to defy the Fuhrer.

Re:Let them play WOW

[Anonymous Coward]

All video games and no mental work makes Jack even fucking duller.

Re:Let them play WOW

[Tynam]

Yes, but Acadia's an IMF. Full crew complement's about 1600 - big enough to be a flexible community in her own right. Relevant, but hardly a comparable problem.

Re:Let them play WOW

[MaXMC]

I guess they hadn't heard of condoms or Implanon?

Re:Let them play WOW

[ae1294]

I think it's more the military's fault for not upholding their oath to protect the Constitution. Really, what can normal people do when elections are pretty much rigged on who you're can vote for and the military will blindly do whatever the government asks? If you dare to defy the government and try to uphold the Constitution, you're a "terrorist" and the military won't think twice about killing you for daring to defy the Fuhrer.

Well sure you are can say it's the military's fault but then what you're really saying is it's the top bass who should decides when to over throw the elected officials. That sort of thing happens all the time and most of the time it's so those same top military people can take over.

I agree, voting is rigged, always has been in one way or another. But you can't rig it if a majority of the people decide to give a fuck. Not saying that is ever going to happen.

Re:Let them play WOW

[StormyWeather]

Why in the world would you say split screen halo would cause anger between the crew. If anything it would create more of a friendship bond. I've played PVP games against friends for my entire life, and have never gotten truely angry, or had anyone get angry at me.

Well, there was that one time I shot the food for like the 10th time and my buddy punched me...

Re:Let them play WOW

[Totenglocke]

No, it can still be rigged. Lets say that we all vote for an independent president and an all new independent congress - do you really think that the Republicans and Democrats would let that happen? God no. They'd bust out the military, claim it was rigged, arrest hundreds of people and once people started openly calling them out on not following the election results, they'd start shooting people too.

And no, I wasn't saying it was the top brass who should be making the call. ANYONE in the military who is given an unconstitional order should either 1) take whatever measures to have the person who gave the order relieved of command or if that doesn't work 2) shoot them for treason.

Re:Let them play WOW

[AliasMarlowe]

that's only impressive if you'd let us know how many people were on the boat.

Is using google really too difficult for you?

From the Washington Times:
"During the 1991 Persian Gulf war, the press branded the destroyer tender USS Acadia the "Love Boat" after 36 sailors -- 10 percent of the women aboard -- became pregnant while deployed in support of Operation Desert Storm."

From the New York Times:
"Lieut. Comdr. Jeff Smallwood, said there were no indications of improper fraternization between men and women on the ship. 'These women have a right to get pregnant,' Commander Smallwood said. 'The conclusion somebody is jumping to is that the Acadia is a love boat, and that's not the case.'" http://www.nytimes.com/1991/04/30/us/36-women-pregnant-aboard-a-navy-ship-that-served-in-gulf.html

That's an interesting statement, when taken in its context. He's essentially saying that (i) it's OK for the servicemen and servicewomen to service one another, and (ii) servicewomen have a right to get pregnant even on active missions. The first point is sensible enough, even if prudes ashore would disapprove. Since pregnancy is a ticket home away from danger, the second point might be a bit controversial.

Re:Let them play WOW

[Caue]

not really, but I try not to write half baked stuff. citations are always nice. I agree with your argument, by the way.

Re:Let them play WOW

[ae1294]

No, it can still be rigged. Lets say that we all vote for an independent president and an all new independent congress - do you really think that the Republicans and Democrats would let that happen? God no. They'd bust out the military, claim it was rigged, arrest hundreds of people and once people started openly calling them out on not following the election results, they'd start shooting people

Your right they would do something like that but the problem is the people in the military are not so much different than you or I. They might get orders to go arrest hundreds even to shoot them on site but a lot of them wouldn't do it and would be on our side. Once it becomes clear to the masses that something is really wrong there is no way for a small group of men to stop change and sooner or later they will be in front of a firing squad.

Re:Let them play WOW

[Totenglocke]

They might get orders to go arrest hundreds even to shoot them on site but a lot of them wouldn't do it and would be on our side.

You obviously know very different military people than I know. Every military person I know believes that the government is always right, no matter what, regardless of who is in charge.

Re:Let them play WOW

[ae1294]

You obviously know very different military people than I know. Every military person I know believes that the government is always right, no matter what, regardless of who is in charge.

Are you in the US? I liked in Norfolk, VA for the first half of my life and most military people HATE the military and they HATE taking orders from jackoff's in an office some place.

But I would agree that Military People are in general; angry, violent, ill mannered, and prone to start a fight for no reason. The Male/female ration in the Norfolk area was something like 60/40 so yeah you'd be pissed too...

Re:Let them play WOW

[Totenglocke]

I live in Ohio and have never met a military person who ever spoke poorly of the military (unless they were criticizing the slowness of the beauracracy).

Re:Let them play WOW

[ae1294]

I live in Ohio and have never met a military person who ever spoke poorly of the military (unless they were criticizing the slowness of the beauracracy).

Ahhh ok... yeah I've heard some things about Ohio. Yeah if some shit ever does go down you should probably lay low for awhile...

Re:Let them play WOW

[geekoid]

he didn't say mass, he said weight.

Make a porno

[mister_playboy]

I say they should make a porno, actually. Who doesn't want to do what sex on other planets will be like?

Granted, many of us here on /. don't even know what sex on this planet is like... :)

Re:Make a porno

[Anonymous Coward]

Of course we know what sex is like.

It involves a high-speed internet connection and a hand, right?

Re:Make a porno

[Anonymous Coward]

Sell video feeds to an all-lesbian crew:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCVsT7kgwdw (NSFW)

The whole thing will not only pay for itself, it will generate profits.

Re:Make a porno

[Razzious]

If the Martian were underage it could bring a new meaning to "illegal alien"

Re:Make a porno

[Anonymous Coward]

There's porn of it, no exceptions. Watch "The Uranus Experiment".

Re:Make a porno

[rwa2]

Do they allow women yet? I thought I had read somewhere that these kinds of simulations kept failing because the French and Russian "Simunauts" would start getting all aggressive over the attention of the female crewmembers after a few days.

So no, you probably wouldn't enjoy a porno. Well, unless you swing that way.

Actually, I thought some of the NASA space shuttle astronauts (who were coed) had proposed having sex in orbit, but mission control always declined/denied/cockblocked somehow.

Re:Make a porno

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd totally do it as long as they paid me with a really hot babe to bang when it's done.

Re:Make a porno

[secolactico]

And thank goodness for broadband.

Remember the days of 300/1200 baud dialup? That Pamela Anderson download would be halfway thru her chest and you would already be done.

And I know I'm dating myself (besides in *that* sense). Not because of the 300 baud reference, but by referring to Pam Anderson as fap-worthy material.

Re:Make a porno

[JWSmythe]

    Psst. Wanna know a secret?

    If you get a sufficiently sized group with at least one person of each sex, and they are confined in a space long enough (like a simulated spaceship), there will be sex going on soon enough.

    Hell, they've made all kinds of laws about sex in the workplace. Anyone who's ever worked in an office should be able to recount their sexual harassment training. Regardless of the training, office romances start, and some of them never leave the office for the cheap model down the street.

    (memories flashing back of the copy room; break room, CEO's desk after hours.... oh, I could go on...)

    Just because they're nerds (ya, ya, we all are, because most of us would volunteer to go) doesn't mean that they don't get a twichin' below the belt, and naughty things happen. After the first few hundred days, even the ugly people would start lookin' good. :) You may not want to see the porno of that though.

Re:Make a porno

[JWSmythe]

I hereby invoke Rule #34.

    Please cease this thread, there's nothing new to discuss. We've all already seen it before.

    But just in case, please provide links.

    (and this is just for fun)

Re:Make a porno

[FatdogHaiku]

Other planets hell, what about zero-g? That will put a whole new spin on the "propeller" position!
Sorry, it's wasn't going to leave my brain until I typed it out....

Re:Make a porno

[Jedi Alec]

Anyone who's ever worked in an office should be able to recount their sexual harassment training.

Seriously? I've been in this place for years, the very concept of a sexual harassment training would be laughed out the door. Heck, the next company magazine is doing an article on the various couples(married or not) that we have within the organization.

Is this a US phenomenon? (prevents lawsuits or something?)

Re:Make a porno

[Anonymous Coward]

Admit it: You designed your post so the punchline could be... funny?

Re:Make a porno

[tedgyz]

And thank goodness for broadband.

Remember the days of 300/1200 baud dialup? That Pamela Anderson download would be halfway thru her chest and you would already be done.

And I know I'm dating myself (besides in *that* sense). Not because of the 300 baud reference, but by referring to Pam Anderson as fap-worthy material.

How about those alt.sex.binaries... downloads? You had to pull 5 pieces and know the proper command to stitch them together.

Now we have youporn.com

Re:Make a porno

[tedgyz]

I say they should make a porno, actually. Who doesn't want to do what sex on other planets will be like?

Granted, many of us here on /. don't even know what sex on this planet is like... :)

It brings new meaning to the "mile high club". How about the 36 million mile high club? Now that is an elite membership.

Re:Make a porno

[JWSmythe]

    Nope, the US phenomenon is that it's a country full of litigious bastards. The American civil court system has evolved into a system where anyone can sue anyone else for anything they want for as much as they want. Once it's in the court system, it's a gamble to if you're going to win or lose. If you're in front of a judge only, you have a 50/50 shot at a fair trial. If you're in front of a jury, all fairness is out the window, and it's up to which slimy lawyer can present their side of the case better. A good ambulance chaser can make it so you can spill a hot cup of coffee on yourself, and sue (and win against) a multibillion dollar corp for making it too hot, the top not secured well enough, etc, etc, even though they'd been serving their coffee that way for about half a century, and billions of cups had been served the same way up until that time.

    A bit more topical, if a guy flirts with a girl in an office here... Wait, I have to stop there, to show the insanity. flirting can be construed as any sort of communication. It's not in how he means it, it's in how SHE takes it. Case in point, which was discussed a couple weeks ago between some friends (one of whom was involved as a witness). The guy said "you look nice today". All witnesses confirmed that. No physical contact. No strange facial or other physical movements. No implication other than the girl involved looked nice. She didn't sue the guy, since he barely made enough to pay his bills. She sued the company. Her lawyer took the case on contingency (he only made money when he wins). After a year in court, the company finally settled for $2,000,000. Why? Because a guy said "you look nice today" to a girl. Why does it work? Because anyone can sue anyone.

    If you can keep it in court long enough, one side or the other may just settle. If you can get a jury trial, it's a coin toss.

    Where do you live? I want to move there.

Reality Show

[Anonymous Coward]

They should make it a reality show, and each week vote for a member to have a one-way trip.

I hear Pauly Shore's available

[ravnous]

I hear Pauly Shore's available

Re:I hear Pauly Shore's available

[Anonymous Coward]

For a one-way mission?

They'll be stuck

[Wolvenhaven]

They'll be stuck inside because they will end up poisoning the atmosphere and they won't be let out until they clean up.

And wouldn't it be great if...

[shock1970]

They turned it into a reality TV show with all sorts of hidden cameras and microphones placed everywhere.

And while it's great that they've asked for Europeans volunteers, there would be a lot more drama if you threw one or two American 20-somethings into the mix.

-- So where do I sign up?

Re:And wouldn't it be great if...

[Anonymous Coward]

Had they only advertised it as an actual mars mission and picked all the dumbest applicants, they could have made it into a Truman Show (or Spaceman Show if you like).

Imagine their faces after 520 days of deceit, thinking they actually went to mars...

Re:And wouldn't it be great if...

[uglyduckling]

Do you mean like Space Cadets?

Day 4

[jtownatpunk.net]

Mars needs women!

Re:Day 4

[realsilly]

Day 5...

Woman pregnant.

Re:Day 4

[Anonymous Coward]

Day 6

It appears that the woman suddenly appeared through a portal from the future where there are no men, requiring sexual intercourse to keep the human race going on.
It explains why they managed to get here so quickly.

Additional, it appears i may have actually died and went to heaven.

Re:Day 4

[EdIII]

Day 6

Mars NEEDS some Chunky Monkey, Pickles, and Cinnamon Gummie Bears. Like right the fuck now.

"The Saturn Game" [Re:Let them play WOW]

[Anonymous Coward]

I figure it this way. They need to pass a lot of downtime. Let them play a MMORPG...

... Its going to take something highly addictive to keep them occupied during the trip there and back. Certain types of games would do it just fine. If you could find a way of combining learning into them all the better, but in some ways mindless entertainment may be key.

"The Saturn Game," by Poul Anderson.

Do transplants still count?

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow - the opportunity to have an expenses-paid 520-day "trip" where I don't have to come in to my office and deal with the associated cow-orkers? I was born in Europe...is that enough for this transplant to qualify? SIGN ME UP!!!

Please...there's not one small sign of intelligent life down here. Have Kindle, will travel...

Re:Do transplants still count?

[sznupi]

It seems they talk about nationality, not place of residence... (you might want to check the list of countries, you're elligible only if being from one of few participating in this program; I'm not ;/ )

It will start with only 6 people...

[Covalent]

...but unless sterilization is part of the experiment, there will be far more than 6 in 520 days!

Re:It will start with only 6 people...

[0100010001010011]

Lesbian crews. More specifically, HOT lesbian crews.

Video cameras everywhere, the trip would pay for itself.

Re:It will start with only 6 people...

[Anonymous Coward]

And this is why gay people should be welcomed into the space program with open arms...

Re:It will start with only 6 people...

[DarthVain]

Seriously the last one of these was all Men... lets see how things go when it is all Women...

[insert sexist joke here]

Re:It will start with only 6 people...

[Walkingshark]

Hey, I made almost this exact comment! Damnit!

Re:It will start with only 6 people...

[apoc.famine]

Um, you're suggesting putting a bunch of attractive women in a small, confined space together.....do you not know how well women get along over extended time periods?
 
Oh, slashdot, women....right. Carry on.
 
For the record, I don't know if I'd rather be one of six guys or one guy with 5 other women. When you're rationing water so there is limited bathing, three are now in cycle and so are PMSing at the same time, she took the last bit of ice cream, well, you obviously don't need any more, who are you calling fat, etc, I don't know if it would be worth the sex.

Re:It will start with only 6 people...

[0100010001010011]

It's really not that bad.
I lived in a 'girls' dorm freshmen year. 5 floors of females. Guys on the 2nd floor. Small campus so none of the restricted floors stuff. Sure their trashcans filled up a bit faster. But there really was none of what you make it out to be.

And for further clarification. If they're "in cycle" then they are not PMSing. Guess what the P stands for.

(I swore I won the lottery when I got my letter).

Re:It will start with only 6 people...

[Anonymous Coward]

Only if it's streamed it out to the interwebs @...

Re:It will start with only 6 people...

[redfire111]

I don't think any of us wants to know what happens when a bunch of psycho overachieving astronaut chicks get together in a confined space for over a year. Can anyone say gratuitous diaper wearing?

Totally....

[Anonymous Coward]

And here I was, thinking of Total Recall.

Realistic

[Haxzaw]

Unless it is realistic with a real chance of death should an air leak occur, or a system fails, such as Apollo 13, it will be almost meaningless. Of course, if the participants think there is a chance of death, even if a rescue is allowed that they don't know about, it might be OK and not taint the results.

Re:Realistic

[th1nk]

Unless it is realistic with a real chance of death should an air leak occur, or a system fails, such as Apollo 13, it will be almost meaningless. Of course, if the participants think there is a chance of death, even if a rescue is allowed that they don't know about, it might be OK and not taint the results.

Not only that, but they also know that they are not really going to mars. I would think the psychological effects would be much harder to endure if you knew that you were just stuck in a bunker on earth and could feasibly go back to your normal life at any point.

Re:Realistic

[wwfarch]

Or maybe they ARE going to Mars. It could be just like Ender's Game but without the whole killing aliens aspect. This could be a really sneaky way to avoid the psychological effects caused by such a voyage. Of course I don't actually think this is the case but it sure would be interesting.

Re:Realistic

[Locke2005]

Who ever said they were going to tell the crew they weren't actually going to mars? Imagine their shock when, after a grueling 520 day journey, kept going only by their desire to explore the unknown, they finally open the hatch door, only to be greeted by, "Ha ha! Fooled you!"

Re:Realistic

[FrankieBaby1986]

So replace the prize with something similar. Say, a million bucks. Hell, promise me a 250k and i'll do it!

Re:Realistic

[sznupi]

Hate to break it to you, but everybody has 100% chance of death.

Re:Realistic

[Hybrid-brain]

What does Ender's Game have to do with this?

Re:Realistic

[wwfarch]

In the situation I posited the volunteers will secretly be on a mission to Mars but in reality would actually be going to Mars.

**Spoiler Alert** In Ender's Game, Ender believed that he was only simulating battles toward the end of the book but in reality he was actually commanding the battles.

The tie-in here is that the volunteers are tricked into thinking everything is just a simulation when it isn't.

Re:Realistic

[Hybrid-brain]

AH. okay. that makes sense. I can see that happening. I don't think it would work psychologically, just because they might start to question a few things. I know that Ender did and that a lot more questions were raised in Ender's Shadow then we saw in Ender's game. So one can imagine just the implications of how much psychological damage these ideas can run with.

I wonder...

[TimeElf1]

ESA is looking for European volunteers to take part.

I wonder if any European people will use this to try to get out of child support payments.

just make sure they stock up on birth control

[circletimessquare]

so there aren't any extra unplanned astronauts to arrive on "mars"

Re:just make sure they stock up on birth control

[Anonymous Coward]

"stranger in a strange land" much?

Re:just make sure they stock up on birth control

[Anonymous Coward]

alternate plans: nothing gay astronauts

our first contact with aliens on distant planets are going to be faaaabulous

Re:just make sure they stock up on birth control

[c0ck_l0rge]

so there aren't any extra unplanned astronauts to arrive on "mars"

...and especially if it's a all male crew! Wait..

Volunteers

[hardihoot]

Okay, this might sound a little naive, but why can't they use people who have long prison sentences but are not severely criminal? The data gained concerning space travel could allow these people to contribute to society when otherwise they would just be rotting in a cell.

Re:Volunteers

[khallow]

Okay, this might sound a little naive, but why can't they use people who have long prison sentences but are not severely criminal? The data gained concerning space travel could allow these people to contribute to society when otherwise they would just be rotting in a cell.

Two things. First, what information would these prisoners provide? I'm reminded of a novel I read where secret US agencies engaged in medical experiments to develop yet another supersoldier. They were excited at getting a real doctor as a test subject. The reason was because they got someone who could contribute and understand what was going on with his own body rather than "It hurts, Doc."

Second, prisoners aren't the people that would be sent to Mars for a real mission. One of the things that will be tested here is the selection process for putting together a team that can work together for 18 months. And to be blunt, I don't understand the psychology of people who view this as equivalent to a prison sentence. Not everyone needs extensive social contact. There are plenty of examples of small groups making do in an isolated environment for years at a time.

Re:Volunteers

[hardihoot]

Not everyone needs extensive social contact

I was thinking of just myself. I couldn't do it.

putting together a team that can work together for 18 months

I guess that pretty much eliminates most of the incarcerated population. They aren't known for teamwork in a positive, productive direction.

It was wishful thinking on my part to accelerate human space exploration via a population with little to offer society, such as those with a life sentence or on death row.

Re:Volunteers

[daveime]

I hear Bernie Madoff isn't too busy for the foreseeable future ...

By the time they get to Mars, they won't have any shirts ... if he hasn't already sold the spacecraft to someone in Washington.

Re:Volunteers

[daveime]

There are plenty of examples of small groups making do in an isolated environment for years at a time

The Amish ? Scientologists ?

Re:Volunteers

[WilyCoder]

Have you never heard of Australia?

Re:Volunteers

[Herkum01]

Like Republicans, specifically Teabaggers.

Give them access to a radio with Rush Limbaugh and they will be fuming about democrats and the government so much that they WANT to stay away from society...

Of course, with them wanting to carry guns on a spaceship, they would probably make a poor choice for astronauts.

Re:Volunteers

[Anonymous Coward]

Haven't you heard of Australia? Look how that turned out...

Re:Volunteers

[R3d M3rcury]

Second, prisoners aren't the people that would be sent to Mars for a real mission.

Why not? Hell, it worked in Australia...

Re:Volunteers

[theArtificial]

Not everyone needs extensive social contact. There are plenty of examples of small groups making do in an isolated environment for years at a time.

Take Linux for example... or WOW players. Oh, and prisons! Prisoners have been constantly improving items and repurposing others for use as shanks (more compact, lighter, more surface area - craftsmen seem pride themselves by using the least amount of material possible).

Re:Volunteers

[Anonymous Coward]

Why not just send up a couple of slashdotters?

Re:Volunteers

[khallow]

I was thinking sailors in the good old days, for example. Fur trappers in the New World often went without human contact for long periods of time.

Who would _volunteer_ for this?

[Anonymous Coward]

While participating in such an experiment is quite neat in itself, isn't a year and a half of time a rather large sabbatical?

Hmm, poor timing?

[Anonymous Coward]

Upon exiting the simulated spacecraft:

"Hi! Thanks for wasting 18 months of your life sitting with five people with bad body odour playing Canasta until your eyes bled.

Btw, we decided to use VASIMR and we'll get there in 40 days!

Cheers, and thanks for the help. Btw, your dad died."

Re:Hmm, poor timing?

[Shotgun]

Upon exiting the simulated spacecraft:

"Hi! Thanks for wasting 18 months of your life sitting with five people with bad body odour "

Hence, the search for European volunteers. They're used to the smell.

Crew selection

[Anonymous Coward]

Of course, only half the slots are available. Pauly Shore, Stephen Baldwin and Kylie Minogue have already been selected based on previous experience.

One can only hope

[mandark1967]

that one of the volunteers spends each of those 520 days asking, "Are we there yet?!" over and over...

Re:One can only hope

[martin-boundary]

And what do they need 520 days for? I think 512 days should be enough for anyone...

Re:One can only hope

[geekoid]

rest assure, that person wouldn't do it for more then 30 days.

Submarine crews

[digitac]

I've always thought submarine crews would be better suited to space travel than Air Force test pilots. They need people who can deal with being in small, confined, pressurized vessels for long stretches of time without being able to go outside. And they wouldn't insist on having a window and control stick!

Re:Submarine crews

[UnknownSoldier]

That's a good point.

Of course I have to wonder about the validity of the psychological effects. In a simulation you _know_ when it is over, "Earth" is just an "exit door" away. On Mars, you are putting your life on the line and don't have your support system (friends, family) "next door" so to speak.

Re:Submarine crews

[Anonymous Coward]

Then even better, ship simulator, vacuum all around the ship.
It's Do or Die time, no turning back. At least then you might actually get decent results.

And to be perfectly honest, don't select anyone with a family unless they have went through the training.
At least the singletons won't be depressed from being away from their family for over a year.
And even then, videos can always be sent back and forth between Earth and the ship, they won't be entirely locked away from us.

The simulation should also have pretty much everything that they normally do in life, the things they do on their time off.
Be it (video/ ) games, porn, TV shows (transmitted), internet archives being sent over for X period for certain sites they wish to keep track of. (could probably do it monthly), etc.
Taking people out of their comfort zone is what will drive them insane.

Also, kinda freaky, Defying Gravity just came on there. (show about what this intends to train for, solar system exploration)

Re:Submarine crews

[FrankieBaby1986]

I think you just solved the Mars Mission problem.

1) Ask people to sign up for a simulated trip to mars.

2) Assure them that it's a sim, and their loved ones are on the other side of the door sometimes.

3) Put them in an actual rocket to mars.

4) ???

5) Profit!

Biosphere 2

[slippr]

See also Biosphere 2.

No problem

[ctrl-alt-canc]

Here there are plenty of volunteers. They are practicing Mars exploration since many years with impressive results. As you can read perusing their EVA reports, they discovered plenty of important thinghs, like the importance of rifles for keeping away polar bears, how to study ionospheric radio propagation, and so on. Quick! Apply here now!

520 days without a date?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, like that is a challenge...

I volunteer one group of idle people...

[Spencerian]

The United States Congress.

We won't miss them, really. How many more new laws do we need? Seriously.

Re:I volunteer one group of idle people...

[electricprof]

There is a major scientific problem with using members of Congress. Since most of them have their heads inserted into a certain orifice, their bodies have adapted to a methane-rich environment. This would introduce a bias into the results. Of course, it does suggest a new methane-powered propulsion system ...

Re:I volunteer one group of idle people...

[Greyfox]

We could tell them that some sort of... space goat... is threatening Earth and that the most important people must be the first to evacuate...

Re:I volunteer one group of idle people...

[BitZtream]

A mutant star goat perhaps, or perhaps the Earth is going to be swallowed by the sun ... or was it the moon?

If you're going to quote the guide, at least do it properly.

Re:I volunteer one group of idle people...

[Anonymous Coward]

I was thinking of the president, personally. He wants to be European! Let this be his chance!

More like 39 days just to get to Mars..

[TribesPlaying-iuSioN]

At least according to this Slashdot article http://science.slashdot.org/story/09/10/19/1324222/VASIMR-Ion-Engine-Could-Cut-Mars-Trip-To-39-Days

Re:More like 39 days just to get to Mars..

[unwastaken]

At least according to this Slashdot article http://science.slashdot.org/story/09/10/19/1324222/VASIMR-Ion-Engine-Could-Cut-Mars-Trip-To-39-Days

Ok, so Mars is effectively "close." How about all the other planets, stars, and galaxies that are still "far"? This research would apply to them equally.

Back in to the USSR joke

[Anonymous Coward]

There was a joke in the former soviet bloc satellite states:

What are the prizes for "Who knows more about the USSR" competition?

1st prize: 1 week in USSR
2nd prize: 1 month in USSR
3rd prize: 1 year in USSR

Guess who won? The CIA!

Communications lag

[Rolgar]

I wonder if the monitoring the psychological effects of the experiment would include adding an increasing the amount of lag between when the isolated crew send a message to Mission Control, and when they get a response back. After all, instant response would make the crew feel like mission control were just a phone call away. Also, wouldn't the atmosphere of the environment be different, because you would always know you could be brought out if something went wrong. To run a real simulation, wouldn't the crew need to really think they were millions of miles away with no chance of rescue?

Re:Communications lag

[will381796]

The study's website includes a PDF indicating some of the issues/situations they will be faced with. It does say that over time, a communication lag of up to 20 minutes will develop between the participants and the outside world.

Re:Communications lag

[Anonymous Coward]

Well now, I remember an entertaining story of repeated test Mars missions where the coordinators were getting desperate because every simulated mission would end with simulated failure, careless mistakes and whatnot. It's a very detailed simulation, with fine red dust and the occasional robotic alien creature. The testers are put into a chamber and subjected to G-forces, then after the correct period of time allowed into a huge chamber simulating the surface of Mars. In the most extreme cases, when somebody is doing badly in the simulator (choking on dust, say), they get rescued by men popping up from a trapdoor. Eventually some test subjects are told that this is the final test - if they fail, the program will be shut down. As an incentive not to fail, they aren't going to be rescued if something goes wrong. I'm not sure how they justify this in the story. Anyway, there's a twist! Because it's a short sci-fi story, of course. When the test subjects find a creature and cut it open for science, they don't see any mechanical parts, and realise they actually are on Mars. So it's sort of reversed - instead of convincing test subjects that they're really on Mars, the project manages to convince astronauts that they're actually in a test chamber. For a while.

Re:Communications lag

[skeeto]

That's exactly like what happens in Ender's Game.

Relativity

[Korbeau]

An astronaut playing WoW during a 520 days trip to Mars while moving near the speed of light could barely get his character to level 40, while in the same time-span on earth his identical twin will easily have maxed the gear of 3 different characters.

(of course, one might argue that the astronaut simply is a n00b)

Re:Relativity

[theIsovist]

I know you're trying to be funny, but traveling at the speed of light, he'd only be going for about 10-20 minutes. This is, of course, unless you wanted to take a side trip to alpha century and turn the ship around when bickering happens about 1/4 of the way there.

Re:Relativity

[Idiomatick]

You broke my brain.

520days... check
Here to mars.. check
Near the speed of light...???

Holy shit you'd think they'd use google maps or a gps or some shit even my mom doesn't get that lost. Turning a 6.1 minute round trip into a year and a half.

Did Columbus run simulations before departing ?

[Syniurge]

Answer is no.

And the psychological and medical aspects of 520-days period are bullshit, Slashdot readers have sat on a chair longer than that and they're fine.

Quit the safety mumbo-jumbo, send them first, ask questions later.

Re:Did Columbus run simulations before departing ?

[geckipede]

Ships were already established technology at that point. If their expedition had failed, it wouldn't have been a major setback for anybody except the people lost.

If you're spending hundreds of billions on a one-shot project, it makes sense to spend another million or so checking that you've not made a huge dangerous error in something with so many potential failure modes as human morale.

Re:Did Columbus run simulations before departing ?

[schon]

the psychological and medical aspects of 520-days period are bullshit

Thank you for your informed opinion. Where did you get your degree in psychology or sociology? Is it a Masters or a PhD?

Re:Did Columbus run simulations before departing ?

[Syniurge]

Thank you for your informed opinion. Where did you get your degree in psychology or sociology? Is it a Masters or a PhD?

No degree needed to know that the people taking part in the simulation will likely be very different from the ship crew, who won't be faking love and hate stories like their favorite TV reality show.

Re:Did Columbus run simulations before departing ?

[Syniurge]

Hundreds of billions ? Hardly. Humanity is too busy making commercials. There's more public enthusiasm in the most worthless bit of mainstream matter than in science and technology, and space exploration.

One question:

[Psicopatico]

How much one would be payed?

I believe "volunteer" does not imply "free" (gratis).

Been There, done that.

[blhack]

People act like sticking these people in an isolated chamber for a few hundred days is a new problem, it isn't. Sailors have been doing it for centuries.

If you want to study the effects further, give these people all a free 600 day cruise around the open sea. They're going to get horny, they're going to get angry, and they're going to get bored. That is what will happen.

Put a server on board with some quake and a few other video games. Give them all a bunch of contraceptives.

It will be fine. Trust me.

Re:Been There, done that.

[HuckleCom]

This is awesome.

Re:Been There, done that.

[DerekLyons]

People act like sticking these people in an isolated chamber for a few hundred days is a new problem, it isn't. Sailors have been doing it for centuries.

And discipline had to be enforced with physical brutality, while those doing the disciplining sought solace in alcohol. To put it mildly, neither is an acceptable course nowadays. (Not to mention that routinely being isolated for hundreds of days vanished well over a century ago with the rise of steam power.)
 
 

Put a server on board with some quake and a few other video games. Give them all a bunch of contraceptives.
 
It will be fine. Trust me.

Trust you? Ok, let's put 'em on the table shipmate. I've got four SSBN deterrent patrols - averaging 90 days each.

My experience is it is very hard to assemble a crew, can be hard to maintain discipline, difficult to maintain motivation, etc... etc... across such a time period. Personal friction rises over time, as does depression at being isolated,

What's your experience that lets you speak with authority?

Re:Been There, done that.

[Anonymous Coward]

It's also not new for planning trips to Mars. NASA has been doing it for years with the Haughton-Mars Project. I resupplied their base in 2006. They both conduct experiments in that barren environment and conduct isolation experiments with hard crews.

Re:Been There, done that.

[Anonymous Coward]

Quake rules!

Europeans only?

[MoxFulder]

ESA is looking for European volunteers to take part.

WTF!?

If I were going on a trip to Mars, the last thing I'd take along would be some techno-listening Eurotrash with unreasonable demands for prompt health care and a propensity for labor unrest. Hell, with their thin figures and tight jeans, some Eurotrashtronaut might get sucked out of the spacecraft through some any ol' tiny tear in the outer wall.

Don't they need any good old corn-fed Midwestern American boys on this mission? Sign me up.

Re:Europeans only?

[Anonymous Coward]

They don't have storage room for the sheep :-(

Re:Europeans only?

[skine]

ESA is looking for European volunteers to take part.

WTF!?

If I were going on a trip to Mars, the last thing I'd take along would be some techno-listening Eurotrash with unreasonable demands for prompt health care and a propensity for labor unrest.

Yeah, but if we shut the worst of them in a small room together, then the world becomes a better place for the next year and a half.

Re:Europeans only?

[MoxFulder]

Well, I didn't mean this as flamebait OR insightful... just funny.

I guess looking for humor on Slashdot is like looking for life on Mars ;-)

Re:Europeans only?

[KlaymenDK]

So you're saying this isn't really a test for Mars, it's for the 'B' ark?

If you ever find yourself on the 'launchpad', as it were, do ask around for any Arthurs or Fords among the crew. And bring a towel.

Re:Europeans only?

[BluBrick]

Well, I didn't mean this as flamebait OR insightful... just funny.

I guess looking for humor on Slashdot is like looking for life on Mars ;-)

I guess it is - you'll find it alright, but you might just regret doing so.

Re:Europeans only?

[shermo]

Since 'funny' mods don't give karma, the person who modded you insightful was probably just restoring your karma after the flamebait mod.

Re:Europeans only?

[Anonymous Coward]

Shh! That's discriminatory! Just require bi-lingual personnel.

Re:Europeans only?

[nacturation]

... some Eurotrashtronaut might get sucked out of the spacecraft through some any ol' tiny tear in the outer wall.

Ob. STTNG: "Correction, sir: that's blown out"

Re:Europeans only?

[Anonymous Coward]

Hell, with their thin figures and tight jeans, some Eurotrashtronaut might get sucked out of the spacecraft through some any ol' tiny tear in the outer wall.

And when you finally lose it at day the 500 and decide to simulate this effect using the provided meat grinder, just blame it on the Tourette syndrome caused by the pesticides and GM organisms. The Eurocrats will buy it.

Re:Europeans only?

[Anonymous Coward]

No, me and 12 northern european chicks. And maybe a couple from Czech Republic and Ukraine after STD tests.

Re:Europeans only?

[Anonymous Coward]

Not entirely uncoincidentally, the name of the "ship" in this experiment is ARK B.

Re:Europeans only?

[infinite9]

Don't they need any good old corn-fed Midwestern American boys on this mission?

An american would be poisoned by the poor air quality caused by a lack of deodorant use. Europeans are immune.

Irrelevant

[moosesocks]

Wouldn't the psychological effects of knowing that you're taking part in a (mostly meaningless) test negate any actual behavioral data collected?

If I was given the opportunity to walk on Mars, I'd consent to outright torture for 6 months.

If I was placed in isolation, and told that at the end, I'd have gobs of paperwork and medical exams to complete, my psychological perspective would be rather different. I'd get very bored very quickly.

On the flipside, if I became severely ill in space, I'd (rightfully) panic, while I'd be more comfortable in an isolated trial, knowing that the full facilities of Moscow's health system were at my disposal, a few blocks away.

Also don't forget the physiological effects of zero-gravity and increased radiation in space that you wouldn't experience on earth.

Re:Irrelevant

[decipher_saint]

I reckon if people can't handle it in a safe, controlled, Earth bound experiment than we learn something important.

Re:Irrelevant

[cowscows]

Yeah and simulated surgeries are not exactly like real surgeries because the doctor knows that the mannequin won't actually die if he/she screws up, so why bother having them practice that way?

If you've got a way to simulate all of those things that you've listed, then let the ESA know, I'm sure they'd love to learn about it. Otherwise we'll just have to accept the fact that sometimes science requires baby steps, and that just because something is not perfect doesn't mean that it's useless.

Re:Irrelevant

[BitZtream]

knowing that the full facilities of Moscow's health system were at my disposal

I'd be more concerned about the Moscow health system than being in space with a serious problem. I'll take my chances in space.

Re:Irrelevant

[BitZtream]

They don't practice that way, they practice on dead bodies and living people, with supervision from a board certified doctor far after school has ended. Only after they have performed many surgeries on living people under supervision are they allowed to do it themselves.

They don't use mannequins at any US medical school I'm aware of, not in graduate school anyway. Undergrad doesn't count, you aren't actually IN a medical program at that point.

Re:Irrelevant

[Stepnsteph]

Actually I don't think that the test is irrelevant at all. There was an experiment with a group of college students to simulate the effects of being in jail. Both the guards and the "prisoners" were all volunteers, but the experiment degenerated so far that the experiment had to be stopped. You can read about it here : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_prison_experiment but the gist is that both parties fell so far into their roles that there were abuses and psychological problems.

Given the correct setting a test such as this one to simulate the trip to mars would work wonders. I'm a space nut AND I'm a psychology major, and I for one would LOVE to take part in this experiment.

Re:Irrelevant

[cowscows]

The mannequins are maybe be a newer thing then, I've worked with designs for a couple of medical education facilities (attached to medical schools) where they've talked about them. It might be more accurate to refer to them as robots, they're apparently rather complex and expensive.

But whatever, substitute dead bodies for mannequins in my previous comment, and it's still making the same point.

Re:Irrelevant

[Ruvim]

...I'd be more comfortable in an isolated trial, knowing that the full facilities of Moscow's health system were at my disposal, a few blocks away.... You should still be in rightful panic.

Re:Irrelevant

[Eil]

On the flipside, if I became severely ill in space, I'd (rightfully) panic, while I'd be more comfortable in an isolated trial, knowing that the full facilities of Moscow's health system were at my disposal, a few blocks away.

I dunno, I think I'd rather take my chances are Mars...

Re:Irrelevant

[Anonymous Coward]

On the flipside, if I became severely ill in space, I'd (rightfully) panic, while I'd be more comfortable in an isolated trial, knowing that the full facilities of Moscow's health system were at my disposal, a few blocks away.

On the flipside of that, if you became severely ill during the isolated trial and complained enough to actually be taken out, I'd say that pretty much disqualifies you from a mission to Mars.

Re:Irrelevant

[Anonymous Coward]

On the flipside, if I became severely ill in space, I'd (rightfully) panic, while I'd be more comfortable in an isolated trial, knowing that the full facilities of Moscow's health system were at my disposal, a few blocks away.

I think I would take my chances getting severely ill in space...

Re:Irrelevant

[khallow]

But whatever, substitute dead bodies for mannequins in my previous comment, and it's still making the same point.

Unless they started as live bodies first. But isn't the Hippocratic Oath something like you can't make an omelet without breaking a few eggs, right? Just pick a few people you don't like and start with them. No need to practice.

Re:Irrelevant

[khallow]

Wouldn't the psychological effects of knowing that you're taking part in a (mostly meaningless) test negate any actual behavioral data collected?

I presume they'd hire people with a better attitude who actually understand the value of such an experiment. My view is that unless someone starts doing experiments to study the problems of human habitation in space, even the limited few you can do on Earth, then we'll continue to procrastinate.

Re:Irrelevant

[Caue]

The only choice here is the "next best thing". You can try to adjust the results from a flawed experiment or just fabricate them from no experiment. My guess is that the former is bound to be closer to the expected true.

Link to the application

[prograde]

Here's a link to the application...and good luck to you all.

What I find most interesting, is that Canada is a member of the ESA:

The candidate’s nationality and residence is restricted to ESA member states participating in the ELIPS programme (Austria, Belgium, Switzerland, Germany, Denmark, Spain, France, Greece, Italy, Ireland, Norway, The Netherlands, Portugal, Sweden, United Kingdom or Canada).

Re:Link to the application

[prograde]

OK, second most interesting thing: the Main Exclusion Criteria includes "Imprisoned persons." I guess that they want to avoid people with prior experience in being locked up in a confined space for long periods!?

Realistic simulation?

[Anonymous Coward]

Let me guess, they can abort at any time?

YOU CAN'T DO THAT IN OUTER SPACE. Simulation my ass..

xbox 360 inclusion to be a requirement

[Anonymous Coward]

If they would include an xbox 360 in the rocket, I know that my room-mate would sign-up in a heartbeat. Live updates would also be needed.

Re:ATTENTION

[Anonymous Coward]

I started using Ubuntu a fortnight ago, and I've started sucking men off in public toilets. Please help.

Flamebait?

[Anonymous Coward]

I think there's a moderator out there who needs a sense of humour.

Oh, Come On! No Basement Jokes?

[aquatone282]

/., you disappoint me.

I heard..

[amn108]

I heard that VASIMR plasma engine cuts the trip time to 40 days. Those poor volunteers :-)

Wine, women, and song.

[TheUz]

...and work, actually. People need to feel productive, even if they are not. a RPG like WoW could fulfill this need, but a product of some sort would be better.

  The interplanetary vessel might include a foundry and machine shop. The astronauts could be tasked with constructing orbital vehicles and ground habitat. The lesbian porn angle, while perhaps morally repugnant to some, would also fulfill The desire to be productive. I imagine producing pornography involves some work, no?

tl:dr Keep leisure time short and precious, to avoid boredom.

Re:Wine, women, and song.

[TheUz]

and quote on bottom of page.

Nothing shortens a journey so pleasantly as an account of misfortunes at which the hearer is permitted to laugh. -- Quentin Crisp

Odd bit of synchronicity.

Vacation Days

[bloobamator]

"ESA is looking for European volunteers to take part."

...because only Europeans have enough vacation days to participate in a 520-day experiment.

oh wait! how about: ...because everyone knows that Europeans already live in a bubble, so the transition should be no problem for them.

Re:Vacation Days

[mobby_6kl]

I just hope they send the French, that way nobody here will notice their long term absence.

Re:Vacation Days

[BitZtream]

I would, I could go to France and enjoy the country rather than going to France and dealing with a bunch of ass mongrels that make Americans seem humble compared to their arrogance.

Re:Vacation Days

[jaavaaguru]

Europeans already live in a bubble

But they like to get out of the bubble and see what the rest of the world has to offer more than people from some other countries/continents do.

Re:Vacation Days

[shermo]

Europeans live so close to work/friends/family that they do live in a bubble.

My (European) gf considers the 20 minute drive to my parents "a very long trip". She used to live a literal stone's throw from her work. It saves on petrol costs for sure.

Re:Vacation Days

[sznupi]

...and saves wasting time for commuting.

(though really, you do know that bubble thing is bs?)

Re:Vacation Days

[Jedi Alec]

"ESA is looking for European volunteers to take part." ...because only Europeans have enough vacation days to participate in a 520-day experiment.

oh wait! how about: ...because everyone knows that Europeans already live in a bubble, so the transition should be no problem for them.

Now, now, no need to exaggerate. I only get about 8-10 weeks a year, and that's quite a lot.

Ofcourse we don't have that ridiculous nonsense concerning sick days.

I wonder what you mean about the bubble though. I'll look at the sky tonight and try to see it.

Re:Vacation Days

[wisdom_brewing]

oh wait! how about: ...because everyone knows that Europeans already live in a bubble, so the transition should be no problem for them.

are you f*cking kidding me? compared to who?

Anyone know what they get paid?

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't know about you guys, but this job sounds like it seriously sucks - sitting in a pod for 2 years drinking your own reprocessed urine. It'd take millions of dollars to get me to even consider it. All the job description says though is:
"fixed compensation that is in line with international standards for participation in clinical studies"
So how much do these "international standards for clinical studies" value 2 years of your life to be worth?

Don't tell me, I've heard this one before!

[Locke2005]

They get volunteers from America, Russia, and Poland. The Americans insist on taking 100 cases of junk food, the Russians insist on taking 100 cases of vodka, and the Poles insist on taking 100 cases of cigarettes. After 520 days, the American emerge even fatter than before. The Russians emerge slightly soused, but still in good spirits. Lastly, the poles emerge, looking shaky and sullen, and the first words out of their mouths are, "Has anybody here got a match?"

Re:ATTENTION

[Anonymous Coward]

He said "linux is for fags", not "fags are for linux" ;)

Coming This Fall...

[Escape From NY]

I smell a new reality TV series. Can we vote people out the air lock?

Big Brother...

[Anonymous Coward]

watches you. Can't this project be outsourced to big brother?

crazy from the start

[Anonymous Coward]

No sane person would volunteer for this. Therefore the whole study is flawed for its purpose

Re:crazy from the start

[inu_maru]

Sort of like "No human has ever encountered a sane Pierson's Puppeteer"?

Then the experiment can find if crazy people can be stable enough to not kill the rest of the crew and still do whatever they need to do in mars.

Russians respecting woman?

[whatajoke]

The last time a woman volunteered for such an experiment, she encountered lots of sexual harrasment from the Russian crew members.

Less than a month into her run, Lapierre suddenly encountered serious problems. She was twice forcibly French-kissed by the Russian team commander, and soon afterwards witnessed a 10-minute-long fight between two Russians that left blood spattered on the walls.
She insisted that the controversial kisses were not merely “friendly celebrations” and that she had vigorously told the Russian to back off. She quoted him as saying, "We should try kissing, I haven't been smoking for six months. Then we can kiss after the mission and compare it. Let's do the experiment now."
Lapierre dismissed the notion that the Russian thought his actions were normal and acceptable. "Why did he try to pull me out of sight of the camera?" she asked.
When Lapierre's team first entered the modules, Dr. Valery Gushin, the scientific coordinator of the project, voiced attitude that in hindsight could have been seen as warnings about the problem. "Men, they have some expectations from women," he told a Canadian television team. "They want them to be more like women, not just partners. At least Russians do."
Following the incident, Gushin blamed Lapierre. His official report, which Lapierre has seen, saud she had "ruined the mission, the atmosphere, by refusing to be kissed." She should have been taken out, he wrote, and he also insisted that the foreigners had caused the fight.

Re:Russians respecting woman?

[SleazyRidr]

Well, this is the country that brought us the Hungry Duck Club, so it's nothing unexpected.

Re:Russians respecting woman?

[citizenr]

ah, so all it takes for a successful mission is to take some bitches on board.

Re:Russians respecting woman?

[Anonymous Coward]

I work for a non-U.S. company, and a large number of our employees are from the former Soviet block nations. I can assure you, with absolutely certainty, after working with them for 9 years, they DO NOT view women the same way Westerners do. I've seen them forcing drinks on girls to the point where they were near unconscious, then literally carrying them back to their rooms for some uncontested sex.

The way I was raised, a drunk girl was off-limits. To them, she's fair game. It's a completely different mindset.

To be fair, their attitudes seem to be changing, and I see an enormous difference between what I see now and what I saw 9 years ago when I started, but most of that was after some very expensive sexual harassment lawsuits were brought against the company, and since these cases are tried in U.S. courts due to a legal agreement, even though we're a non-U.S. company, the penalties are stiff and the courts generally take the side of the victim. So, it's now well-known at our company that if you sexually harass anyone, woman or man (we had one case where a homosexual manager grabbed the garbage of a non-homosexual employee - he was fired the next day) that you will be terminated in short order, as well it should be.

However, while I'd like to believe the attitudes of other nationalities towards women are changing at the philosophical level, I can't say for sure it isn't simple fear of losing their job that makes them behave. I'd prefer the former, but I'll take the latter.

Adventure Time!

[Anonymous Coward]

Your mind has been transported back in time...and to Mars"
"What?"
"It doesn't matter..."

So the band America anticipated the Biodome?

[sconeu]

rock pools and stuff

From "Horse With No Name

There were plants and birds and rocks and things...

Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

Babies are a great source of protein.

Who needs voluntters?

[Anonymous Coward]

Months without contact with the outside world? Staying in a small, lowly lit place? Why do they need volunteers? All they need to do is go to a WOW players house.

Let them play slashdot

[turing_m]

It's kinda hard to play real-time interactive games when you're dealing with round-trip signal times of up to 40 minutes... I think that would knock out MMO games.

Posting to slashdot would still work well enough, although you'd cop more -1 redundants than normal. Otherwise I guess you could play single player games. Like System Shock, or Doom for example. What could possibly go wrong?

Re:Let them play slashdot

[Razalhague]

Just don't try to "first post!" from Mars...

Re:Let them play slashdot

[wisdom_brewing]

Turn based? (chess? civilisation?)

Re:ATTENTION

[Anonymous Coward]

Please help?

What bathroom you want to hook up at?

MORE stressful on Earth?

[srothroc]

Couldn't the test actually end up being MORE stressful than the real thing because they all know that they're on Earth? It's like dieting for real versus "testing a diet" when your pantry is full of junk food that's locked away from you, much like the classical story of Tantalus.

Required Crew Positions

[polobo1217]

Required Crew Positions:

Pilot
Scientist
Engineer
Bouncer
Dr. in Theology
Prostitute
IT Dude (to fix the laptops if they break down, though I'd expect viruses to be a non-issue)
Medical Doctor

Supply lots of e-books, video games and movies/television shows on DVD.

So, unless you can fit 8 people or more onto the space-ship I don't think it is worthwhile to attempt interplanetary travel and colonization. Probably more since one or more of those positions should have at least two people.

Like prison?

[failedlogic]

Now people keep bringing up sex in this thread. You all have dirty, dirty minds. Now, I'd like to think of this as a prison in a more sociable environment. But, what happens after 30 or 40 days if its a man only crew and there are some showers in the facility ... starting to this this would be more like prison than "space" exploration..... wait a minute!

Would be easy to make it more relevant...

[mbessey]

They should really perform this experiment in Antarctica, in the winter, somewhere near the South Pole (or at least, several hours from the nearest base). Make them eat pre-packaged food and recycled water, and breathe recycled air, for a year and a half, with only the habitat walls standing between themselves and a rapid death from hypothermia, and you'd have something that begins to approach the experience of traveling to Mars.

If we can't keep a crew alive for the required time period in a hostile environment on Earth, it's just stupid to think we're ready to plan to go to Mars.

Europeans as food

[OrangeTide]

The Russians worry that they may run out of food, so are bringing some Europeans along as rations.

Hormones are not the problem.

[jotaeleemeese]

Puritanical blind attitudes to sex are.

The bosses of such a mission would be hung to dry if they would say that the crew would carry a healthy amount of condoms, or that in order to guarantee the success of the mission, the crew had agreed to undergo permanent sterilization.

No sexism in Slashdot.

[jotaeleemeese]

No sexism in Open Source or the IT industry.

It is all a figment in the imagination of feminists.

520 days?

[jotaeleemeese]

There is no crew ever that has been that long at sea without further contact with some other people.

Re:520 days?

[Shihar]

That actually is not entirely true. There are four instances I can think of where crews saw this sort of issue.

1) Normal around the world sailing trips could take this long during the height of sailing. Granted, these crews did put into port and so never were a full two years isolated. That said, a lot of merchant ships of ~1650-1800 had crew sizes in the teens, which is roughly what I would expect for a Mars mission

2) Marooned ships could find themselves on islands for years before rescue. Again, it isn't a perfect analogy as island, even small ones, are bigger than a space ship.

3) Arctic explores trying to find the Northwest passage are almost perfect analogs for a Mars mission. These explorations almost always took a couple of years or longer, they were completely isolated with no contact with outsider, and arctic conditions made the ships basically space ships. These ships would get stuck in ice every winter and the crew would have to sit around doing basically nothing. The only thing that make these expeditions less than perfect metaphors for a Mars trip is that the crew sizes on these ships tended to be up closer to a 100, rather than the teens you would expect for a Mars mission.

Of course, you want to be careful how far you take the analogy. Ship captains had the capacity to enforce their disciple with brutal and barbaric methods that are not going to fly on a Mars mission. Flog your engineer and he is likely to seal you off behind a bulkhead and see how long you can suck space.

Re:520 days?

[geekoid]

You would be surprised what people will tolerate when it's an expected course of action.

There weren't a whole lot of mutinies over flogging, yet a group could have easily tossed the Capt. overboard.

Many people marooned weren't exactly right in the head when resued, an important detail when you are 300 days away from earth.

Ethical even with consent of subjects?

[redfire111]

Can anyone say "Stanford Prison Experiment"?

Enders Game

[wisdom_brewing]

Just make sure you use children!

Roman Empire

[Dareth]

You mean the rise and fall of the Roman Empire was a failure?

Will insanity strike?

[cubicleguy]

Somebody is bound to go nuts before the experiment is over and kill everyone else. The question is: will they make it public when this happens?