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Ubuntu "Karmic Koala" RC Hits the Streets With Windows 7
oranghutan writes "Computerworld is reporting Canonical has made available the Release Candidate of its latest Linux-based operating system, Ubuntu 9.10, on the same day Microsoft launched the long-awaited Windows 7. 'The upcoming Canonical release, which is code-named Karmic Koala, is the latest version of the popular flavor of the Linux OS. The development release on Thursday pushed the OS one step closer to final release, which is due on Oct. 29, according to the company's release schedule Web page. An image of the OS is available for download on Ubuntu's Web site. Test versions of Karmic Koala RC available for download include the server, desktop and netbook versions.'"
I live for high upload:download ratios
I'm looking forward to the official 9.10 release, but I really want some new hardware to run it on! Almost all the netbook offerings are going the XP/W7 route. Providers like system76 have some OK offerings, but they are on the pricey side. I wish I had a wide selection of hardware without having to pay the Microsoft tax!
News would entail what's new in this version.
Non news is a "hey guys Ubuntu has something new too" cry for attention amidst the Win 7 release.
Ubuntu is great and all, but this article is crap.
It barely gets around to mentioning:
"Built on the latest Linux 2.6.31.1 kernel, Ubuntu 9.10 offers faster boot times, an improved user interface and programming tools for easier software development, according to Canonical."
This should please all three linux desktop users.
Why, oh why is this annexed with Windows 7. The release of either affects the other in no way what-so-ever. If Ubuntu beta/rc is not news worthy by itself, releasing on the same day with Win7 doesn't change that in any way. And yes, even one sentence about what's new in this would not hurt...
no one cares
Such as bug 452518 (saving MS Word format documents using Open Office KDE shipped with Kubuntu 9.10 can result in corrupted files).
However, the list of great features planned for this release is amazing! Ubuntu is no longer "Debian with a graphical installer and brown theme", it has become a pretty interesting distro on its own merit.
No - the RC is usually nearly identical to the actual release. Only if there is something totally disastrous (eats your data, leaves dirty socks in the hall, sleeps with your girlfriend/boyfriend/cat/dog) would the final release be delayed.
Anything I post is strictly my own thoughts and doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the opinions of IBM.
had they released it several days ahead of 7.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
I upgraded a week or so back, seems solid so far. PulseAudio seems to be properly configured now, haven't had weird audio routing issues yet at least...
Boot is supposed to be faster, haven't clocked it so I'm not sure it actually is. But then again my desktop has been through several dist upgrades already.
But if you have an ICE1712 / Envy24 (M-Audio Delta) based pro sound card stay away, it's currently broken. Fortunately I boot to windows for my music making needs... ;)
.: Max Romantschuk
The KarmicReleaseSchedule shows that 10/22/2009 was the scheduled date for releasing a Release Candidate, so the project is on schedule. But what do the colors in the Status column mean? Just escalating "hotness" (excitement) as the final release date approaches?
--
make install -not war
"Karmic Koala" is great, but I would like to believe that "All-knowing Frog" was a close second.
Pills... find your pills...
Interesting.
it worked for God. Miracles CAN happen, when you apply yourself.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Zoonotic Zebra
Best Slashdot Co
Ubuntu's fall release date has been set in stone for years, the RC release date has been up since before Windows 7's release date was announced.
Microsoft is the company that chose to release Windows 7 on the same day as Ubuntu's release candidate, not the other way around. Seems like Microsoft wanted to overshadow and minimize the latest release of Ubuntu, and do so without actually permitting Ubuntu to compete.
It's so very tempting to mod this Informative...
Anyone know if the netbook version will allow my HP Mini 5101 to use the on-board mobile broadband feature (qualcomm u2400 I think)?
"I'm just here to regulate funkiness."
A huge Koala has trashed my hall with a load of dirty socks, and is now fucking my girlfriend!
Well the Koala is getting sloppy seconds, but I think your girlfriend was starting to enjoy the Jackalope.
Oh wait, what are we talking about? This is slashdot. You don't HAVE a girlfriend...
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
Window's 8 will fix all those issues, once Mac and Linux develop the solutions.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
I've got hardy on my thinkpad at the moment. I'm considering upgrading just because the new gtk in karmic enables a transparent system tray so AWN will finally look right.
I never liked having two horizontal bars or panels on my screen, especially on a 14" widescreen. too much wasted real estate. especially when applications have a title bar. then add fire fox book mark bar, menus and address bar and that doesn't leave a lot of real estate!
AWN with google chrome makes the most of it.
the next Crunchbang release, then?
Linus gives his verdict
For all intensive porpoises your a bunch of rediculous loosers
Isn't the point of a release candidate to give people enough time time to make sure a product is stable and ready for prime time release, and to fix issues should they arise? Wouldn't an OS, with a whole slew of apps, require a bit mroe than a week for this? I mean, a release of Firefox is usually in RC for several weeks, if not months, before it goes from RC to official release.
The interface on my eee pc using ubuntu 9.04 was very slow, probably some issue with the graphic card driver. 9.10 works much better for me.
Thinking they could steal Ubuntu's thunder! And Steve Ballmer, when asked about this, pretended not to know what Ubuntu was! As if Ubuntu isn't as well known around the world as Microsoft Windows!
Silly Steve!
Oh and silly Slashdot, the only place anyone would even consider tying these two release stories together!
#DeleteChrome
I call bs. If you'd said he'd shot up the place and fled, I'd have believed you.
Koala: noun. A large bear, found in China. Eats, shoots, and leaves.
Learn about Photography Basics.
"It's like a koala crapped a rainbow in my brain"
I'm all for Linux but who comes up with these names ??
errr....umm...*whooosh* *whoosh* Is this thing on ?
No - the RC is usually nearly identical to the actual release. Only if there is something totally disastrous (eats your data, leaves dirty socks in the hall, sleeps with your girlfriend/boyfriend/cat/dog) would the final release be delayed.
You joke, but almost every Ubuntu release I can think of has shipped with major problems that never get fixed. Once it "shipped", despite few reasons to do so (this isn't a commercial software release), major bugs sit ignored. For example, one release had numerous bugs like dimming the screen due to inactivity, and never un-dimming it. It was never fixed. In general, the Ubuntu release model is astoundingly ignorant, assuming that because they release every 6 months, there's no need to fix functionality problems in releases. This is especially problematic given the lack of QA and focus on Shiny(TM). The latest release is all focused on "Cloud Computing" buzzword compliance, not stability or reliability.
Don't get me started about the issues with the Intel GMA drivers. "8.04LTS" worked fine on a number of systems, and 9.x caused never-ending forum postings from users wondering why the hell they couldn't get X going. The KVM stuff has also been incredibly half-baked. I'm pretty sure there's still no way to use virtual-builder to deploy a VM on an logical volume. It'll build the machine, but fuck up the kernel/bootloader install, and the end result is a machine that won't boot. I've got a machine sitting here that crashes Xorg after a few minutes; the mouse goes dead, and we've tried 6 different mice.
Lastly, Canonical has been getting uncomfortably cozy with tying in pay-for services into the OS, either theirs or 3rd parties. I was shocked when I logged into a 9.x machine and got a welcome message that pushed their statistical monitoring "service". Now I see all sorts of Cloud Computing crap. It's becoming increasingly clear that Canonical isn't in this for the good of the world, but lining their pockets via what is essentially bundling agreements. You know how we need wipe Dell and HP systems of all the shit they "bundle"? Well, look who's coming to dinner: third-rate "partners"...
Please help metamoderate.
Yes anybody that is smart enough to use CentOS keeps track of it's releases.
That should be part of the Linux IQ test.
If you use Fedora to run a prodcution server you fail.
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
I would imagine lots of folks with jobs do. I get it, Centos is not big with the unemployed living in Mom's basement demographic, but trust me outside that locked door there is a whole world with many people that do care about it.
Don't get me started about the issues with the Intel GMA drivers. "8.04LTS" worked fine on a number of systems, and 9.x caused never-ending forum postings from users wondering why the hell they couldn't get X going.
Yep, that is well known, and yes it is mostly fixed in 9.10.
I never liked having two horizontal bars or panels on my screen, especially on a 14" widescreen.
Here's how I solved that in Ubuntu Jaunty on my 9" laptop:
Windows NT 4, to be exact, which was released in conjunction with Windows 95/98/Me
WHOORAY!! I am raging hard right now, nothing like repackaged RHEL!
No, I not joking, I seriously use it.
I call bs. If you'd said he'd shot up the place and fled, I'd have believed you.
Koala: noun. A large bear, found in China. Eats, shoots, and leaves.
What the Hell is a Koala doing in China?
Do you still have to bother with getting the mp3 and such stuff elsewhere?
Are the default rpm repositories still nearly useless?
I use RHEL and Centos at work and used to use fedora years ago. In all cases the repos are about pointless. You have to go to Dag for anything really.
That's GNU/Linux, you insensitive freeloading RMS-hating clods!
Hangin' with Pandas.
Learn about Photography Basics.
I've been using the Ubuntu 9.10 Karmic Koala beta for some time and its pretty solid. I upgraded my Windows Vista Ultimate with Windows 7 Ultimate. Windows told me of about a dozen programs that would no longer work. iTunes would have to be reinstalled/upgraded, etc. And I've yet to get Bluetooth Advanced Audio working ... which seems to be broken for quite a few folks. Win 7 doesn't appear to give
any greater performance than Vista did (my observations only).
Ubuntu v9.10 Karmic costs me $0
Windows 7 cost me $219.
I've now using Ubuntu as the Host OS and I'm running Windows 7 as a Guest OS virtualized in KVM... works great and no dual boot any more. If Windows crashes and burns I can just start a new VM.
Uh, koalas aren't really terribly large, and I'm fairly sure the only place in China you might find one is a zoo. Or maybe a butcher shop or pharmacist shop, if they are thought to have any eating or medicinal value :p
You don't HAVE a girlfriend...
Yes I do, and she runs Linux as well!
Nooo! We're talking about repackaged Debian. Stay on topic!
* Braces self for negative modpoints *
/* No Comment */
Thats because of the new Intel UXA driver... It also improved performance in my Acer Aspire One
No sig for the moment.
Linux does not have a UI, the distribution chooses a desktop environment and window manager, etc to their specifications. Look at KDE 4.2 and later and not a Gnome based distribution if you want to see a nice UI.
Karmic Koala is fine, but I just can't wait for Masterbating Monkey to be released!
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
Well then....I will just trot on down to my local Staples and pick up a copy of the new version of Ubuntu. Or do they mean the 'ether' when they say the 'streets'?
I judt got a nre Kinesis keybiartf so please excusr ant egregiou typos.
No, I not joking, I seriously use it.
I know a lot of folks who use it, too :). CentOS is great for organizations that use RHEL but don't need paid support on every server instance. I'm a Debian/Ubuntu guy myself, but to each their own.
/me goes back to testing the Ubuntu 9.10 RC now...
512 MB RAM, 20 GB disk, 200 GB transfer, five datacenters. $19.95/month.
Which is why they released Jaunty 6 months ahead of Windows 7, when people were less likely to be focussed on Windows upgrades.
(Well, no, its not really why; Ubuntu releases are every six months and have been for quite some time. But, still, if you are worried that 9.10 is going to get lost because it was too close to the Win7 release date, 9.04 was released fairly recently but before Win7, and 10.04 will be released in not too long, but after the immediate Win7 release attention is gone.)
Ah, the OSS Mantra ... "it is mostly fixed".
After imitating nearly every software feature, we now bring you our new $LINUX_DESKTOP_DISTRIBUTION. Now even with adapted release dates! It's the same. But it's only partially implemented! Get it now!!
"Because through running behind others, you reach excellence in leadership!"
Man, I love Linux. But that disease of total global imitation must stop right now!
Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
I would imagine lots of folks with jobs do. I get it, Centos is not big with the unemployed living in Mom's basement demographic, but trust me outside that locked door there is a whole world with many people that do care about it.
Still, I'll bet it's *far* fewer than care about a new Ubuntu release, even if you limit Ubuntu to just the "unemployed living in Mom's basement demographic".
Also, I wouldn't be so quick to play the "in the real world, people with jobs..." card, because in the corporate world, IE6 still dominates.
"8.04LTS" worked fine on a number of systems, and 9.x caused never-ending forum postings from users wondering why the hell they couldn't get X going.
You know what LTS means, right? Long Term Support. As in, if it doesn't work in the newest version, but does in the older you're fine. Cause the older version is good for another couple of years of updates. the Ubuntu team has been very upfront about LTS releases being for "stability" and other releases being for new features. So yeah, if there is a "feature" that does not work right, and prevents you from upgrading, wait for the next LTS release, which will be very much inside the support window.
The MS mentality of everyone must always run the newest version of everything or else you won't be protected or get new features is pure crap. That doesn't have to happen in open source, when they aren't trying to force you to constantly upgrade to help their revenue cycle.
What are we going to do tonight Brain?
Isn't their statistical monitoring service just for Canonical's use, so they know what programs people use most and should therefore concentrate their efforts on? Or are you talking about a different service?
My blog. Good stuff (when I remember to update it). Read it.
User 1: "You got Ubuntu in my Windows 7!"
User 2: "No, you got Windows 7 in my Ubuntu!"
User 1: "Hey, this actually isn't too bad."
User 2: "Yeah, the rash clears up pretty quickly, then you're good to go."
... and then they built the supercollider.
Or, if a new release candidate turns out to be a disaster, Linux runs her, so to say ;-) [no offense meant]
Actually that is about right, I think it was about 4 years ago though. At about the same time SUSE required you to enable the euro repos to get mp3s working.
I know one place that operates about 30,000 servers on CentOS. I imagine they care a lot more about it than Ubuntu's latest release.
Of course, since I have to use Vista at home, I care much, much more about Windows 7 than either of the other two. Which is to say that now the timer has started for the SP1 release when I can finally consider it stable enough to put on m home computer. Just a few more months until Windows 7 is released for real and I can switch to using it.
I asked him but he was too lazy to give me an answer.
Computerworld is reporting Canonical has made available the Release Candidate of its latest Linux-based operating system, Ubuntu 9.10, on the same day Microsoft launched the long-awaited Windows 7.
Computerworld is wrong. The RC was released yesterday.
You're right about the looks - but usability wise, I find gnome to be superior. I ran KDE for about 15 minutes before being so annoyed with not being able to do things I was used to in gnome that I switched back to gnome.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." ~Thomas Jefferson
You don't HAVE a girlfriend...
Yes I do, and she runs Linux as well!
Surely you mean she uses Linux, right?
No on server gear. Heck even the chair thrower put linux share of the server market at 60%.
As someone with a real job who uses Linux there (not as much as we used to unfortunately), I switched most of my servers to Ubuntu from CentOS a while back.
I'll admit that lots of people are still using CentOS (and I'll never mock a distro's users - though I'm on Linux Mint now, I used to use Gentoo at home, and before that I was on Slackware - 'nuff said), but even in the corporate world it seems like the push is towards Ubuntu.
"People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
I recently got stuck with helping set up a CentOS server for develepment use, because some vendor we buy stuff from uses it and somehow that means we must use it too, instead of a distro with better software support like Ubuntu. To get some tools I needed, I needed to use GIT to download them. Guess what? CentOS seems to have no support for GIT at all in its official repository! WTF?
That's a massive "fail" in my book.
I've been using on my production/work laptop (64-bit) that I do EVERYTHING on since Alpha 5 (Late August/Early September). It has been absolutely wonderful! Everything is snappier, cleaner, better. HOME RUN HOME RUN HOME RUN!
Over-the-top Response Guy! Giving "Over-the-Top Responses" since 1970.
I get the advantages of ubuntu on the desktop but on there server why would you want to switch from CentOS to Ubuntu?
IranAir Flight 655 never forget!
Okay I've been wanting to vent about this for a few weeks now and this seems to be as good a topic to write this in as any.
My first encounter with Ubuntu came when I recently installed Ubuntu Jaunty on a laptop for a club I belong to. The laptop's got an XP licence but we couldn't find a CD and the programs we need are available for Linux, so Ubuntu seemed like a good choice to get us up quickly. And it worked out fine: Install was simple and quick and the system looked good. The only tricky bit was figuring out the wireless setup but it wasn't too hard.
However I was utterly horrified to see that Ubuntu has also faithfully and I must say blindly replicated the most hideous features of Windows! The despicable "My Documents" folder structure was the first and most obvious. Say what you well about Vista, at least it fixed this into something less cumbersome and more sensible. Next was the constant prompting I got after doing almost every little thing. If I wanted that I'd have left UAC enabled on my Vista desktop. Then I find out Firefox was happily setup to save everything to the desktop by default. FOLDERS EXIST FOR A REASON!!!
Why why WHY are so many Linux folks trying to clone Windows when they dislike it so? It may be Linux and it may be free, but if it looks and acts like Windows then it's still an ugly mess. Here I thought Ubuntu would take the best features of Window and combine them with Linux, but instead all they did was turn Linux into a horrible disgusting Windows clone.
If a company knocks off another company's product we accuse them of stealing ideas. If someone releases some new program (open source or not) that replicates existing functionality we say "well why use yours when I can just use the original?" So why should we get all happy excited about Ubuntu when all it does is rip off Windows? To me that'd be the height of hypocrisy.
Mod me down, I don't care. I had to get this off my chest...
Just what tool do you need that isn't available as an RPM for RHEL?
I have not used Ubuntu Server in a while and I am sure that it is very good but really CentOS is a very good server OS
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
people are going to come on and call me a troll or flamebot of what ever else but who cares.
You're right. That's because you are trolling/flaming. It's pretty simple.
You're main point could have been boiled down to: "I hate windows."
Wait, *runs linux* or *runs on linux*?
If your girlfriend *runs on linux*, have you considered distributing the code and schematics under an open license? It would really be a boon to the rest of the slashdot community.
*By the way -- don't try to release your flesh-and-blood girlfriend under an open license without getting her permission first. Sometimes the downstream modifications are nice, but most of the time they just result in either new dependencies or a borked kernel.
"Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
Ah, the OSS Mantra ... "it is mostly fixed".
I get tired of this pointless wasteful bashing, Three years people have suffered Vista with that little cry on every forum "I'm using Vista 64-bit Ultimate and Never had any problems". I would call it an outrageous lie, but back again with smoke and Mirrors and the Zealots are proclaiming Vista daring anyone to attack Microsoft. Washing away the sins of Corruption; Anti-Capitalism; Anti-Americanism.
The short answer is Intel Drivers Have been abysmal for...forever. Nvidia Binary Blobs in their Unsecure; Distro Reputation damaging form have been the favourite of anti-pragmatists everywhere as they heavily defend Nvidia's IP.
Intel chipsets with barely a supported GL extension and utilities to correct bugs in the Drivers, and a myrid of possible xorg configurations that needed to be supported.
The trouble is Intel Got rid of all that Garbage...now has good 3D for an integrated chipset support...and things like my Scart on my ADD2 card work.
The trouble is while doing this, they broke a lot of working Linux Systems, KMS and GMA500 still have problems that are being looked into, but intel have been movers and shakers in the Linux kernel supporting hardware before its even been released :)
The state of the intel drivers in looking fantastic in Karmic. Its certainly not on the scale of OpenGL performace losses going from XP to Vista or the Myrid of hardware that doesn't work and still doesn't work under Vista/Win7. I have 5 machines in my house and Karmic will work on all of them, but Windows7 will only work on one!
What prompted the switch?
I have heard nothing but bad about ubuntu on the server front(I use it on my laptop), and 9.10 seems to add insult to injury with grub2.0 not even supporting Xen.
Complaining to Kai-lan about something, presumably. And wearing panda slippers.
*sigh* Yes, my 2-year-old kid watches entirely too much TV.
That is why RPMFORGE exists.
Centos only ships what redhat ships, and they limit applications to reduce exposure to bugs and to limit what they have to support. RHEL/Centos is about stability not bleeding edge and tons of apps.
What were you expecting from folks where the latest and greatest kernel is 2.6.18.XXX?
Why not? The community support is better, there's a server version with the GUI stripped out that works well, and for what we're using it for (one MySQL database server, a webserver, a Zabbix performance monitoring server for other systems, and an email gateway) Ubuntu works just as well. Our desktops and most of our servers are Windows (not by my choice, but I have to live with that) so about all we're using Linux for is a few disjointed systems.
At the time I was migrating all my systems to virtual machines anyways to make management easier (and I've always had hiccups with live-migrating machines - regardless of os - from physical to virtual), so I decided when I rebuilt them to go with Ubuntu instead.
We are running OpenBSD on some of the other systems (DNS and a lot of our routers) but the main network admin handles those systems (I've used FreeBSD some but have never even tried OpenBSD).
"People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
For the apparently shoddy and buggy product that you describe as Ubuntu, it sure has done well. It has done what no other distro has done, which is to make Linux accessible to the non-hardcore user. I can't remember the last time I had to do a ./configure, make all, make install to install a program. Much like a mac, it just works. Now, I agree that it's far from the "install this on your grandma's computer" status, but it's a far cry from the first Linux I ever used (I want to say it was Mandrake 5 or 6 - helium was the code name). And even though I've gone through the wondrous joy of manually compiling a program, I still prefer a simple `sudo apt-get install foo`.
As for Canonical being an evil money-hungry corporation, honestly what do think they are in it for? Just because they happen to make a dime along the way doesn't instantly make it an inferior product. Take away the profit aspect, and you get a product with an unbearably long life-cycle run by volunteers (*cough* debian *cough cough*). Just be thankful that it hasn't devolved into the state that Red Hat did where you had to buy "support" just to get updates.
The only way to tell the difference between a hamster and a gerbil is that the hamster has more white meat.
How come 90% of the comments are bitching and bickering when it comes to things like this. Everyone tries to find the "best" OS - not gonna happen. I use Ubuntu, I'm a web developer, it's very stable, easy to maintain, and supports all the software I need. My design counterparts use Macs (go figure). Our IT guy uses Gentoo because he has all the tools he needs, and the know-how to run the fucker. The office administrative staff uses Windows XP because it's stable and supports what they do. And my boss uses Windows 98 because he's stubborn and old. You know what? They all suck in some manner - I can't run my apps on the designer's systems, and visa versa, the admin staff would have an anurism trying to use *nix, and the IT guy wouldn't be nearly as productive on Windows. That being said they're also very useful in their respective places. Stop bitching, use whatever you like and helps you in your work (if you have a job and don't live in your mom's basement), and maybe try to find the positive in something? Like diversity, competition? Maybe? Yeah?
Basically just a perception that the community is moving more towards Ubuntu (and to some degree, just because from my completely non-scientific tests I just like apt more than yum). The powers that be here aren't going to buy commercial support for the OS, and the community support of Ubuntu seems better overall.
I was migrating all of my servers to virtual machines (though on VMWare ESXi rather than Xen) and since I've had problems migrating machines from live on hardware to a VM before, I just took the opportunity to rebuild the systems on Ubuntu instead.
So far for what I've used it for it's worked fine.
"People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
Also, you'll want to enable the 64-bit version of Adobe Flash Player 10 (if you have 64-bit) via Synaptic as well!
Have Fun!
Over-the-top Response Guy! Giving "Over-the-Top Responses" since 1970.
There's a way to get a Thinkpad without Vista on it from the Lenovo site, haven't tried it recently but it worked a month ago. Change the CPU in any system to a Celeron, then select the enabled Vista Starter option (you know, for developing countries that would be confused by having a first world operating system). Then change the CPU to something real, and the OS changes to no charge DOS. You can then place the order. I ordered a T400S using this technique. Good luck!
Yep, what he said; Ubuntu has a server version. As a long time user of OpenBSD for server duty however, I think you could do worse, unless you absolutely have no time or patience for using shells and cmd line utils. In which case you probably shouldn't be an IT professional (or a windows schlub).
Python: 'And then suddenly you have a language which says "we're all stuck with whatever the whiniest coder wants".'
Statistical monitoring "service"... what are you talking about? You are asked whether or not you want to participate in Popularity Contest, which is just data collection about what apps you use the most.
The "one release" with the screen dimming bug was 8.10... short memory?
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law
MMMMM Karmic Kola, *drools*.
I ran KDE for about 15 minutes before being so annoyed with not being able to do things the way I was used to in gnome that I switched back to gnome.
There. Fixed it for you.
Mada mada dane.
Does it matter?
Google Translation
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ru&tl=en&u=http://itc.ua/node/41680
Linus Torvalds decided to support Windows 7
October 23 Linux Foundation Microsoft Operating systems Soft
Yesterday, 22 October, around the world started selling the new operating system Windows 7. Also on this day in Japan, held an event called Japan Linux Symposium. Whether by coincidence, or because of someone's clever idea, but just in front of the building, which brought together developers Linux, Microsoft has established a great promotional booth with Windows 7. It is clear that gathered at the Japan Linux Symposium guys could not get over it, so during the break they took Linus Torvalds (Linus Torvalds) and went to a promotional booth to learn a new operating system, Microsoft.
(Photo)
Photo made on that day will surely go down in history, and more than once will be used to illustrate the various events related to Windows and Linux. The photo shows Linus thumb up Windows 7, which is a characteristic gesture of approval and support. This subtle humor, all participants appreciated the Japan Linux Symposium, the only one who did so and did not understand, it sells at the stand. According to the eyewitnesses, he actively participated in the photoshoot with Linus, but very much surprised when he went and not buying a box of Windows 7.
Yet Socrates himself is particularly missed.
A lovely little thinker but a bugger when he's pissed.
Well, sure ... MS keeps an eye on Linux to see how far popular distros have come. In fact, they *even* have some developers working for them who like and use Linux.
But we've heard for well over a decade now that "any time now", Linux is going to have its day and "threaten Windows for dominance" .... and it never really happens.
I think it's rather idealistic to believe Linux can somehow overtake a gigantic commercial endeavor to make and market an operating system, when in reality, a BIG part of such a battle would involve convincing a massive number of existing Windows users to abandon the platform they're already used to using. Considering the advertising and P.R. budgets for a Linux distro vs. somebody like Apple or Microsoft? You can see a little problem there.
If Linux was just as ready and user-friendly for the desktop PC as what Apple or Microsoft had to offer, about 18 years ago, THEN we'd have more of a "fair fight". But in reality, Linux is a "Johnny come lately" to the game, having spent much of its existence concentrating on being true to its Unix roots with shell scripts, a command line, and catering more to server administration and educational/research/mathematical apps than to entertainment, "home productivity apps" and the like.
Haven't you heard, Xenic Xenophobe is the year of the linux desktop.
fwiw, ive used linux on the desktop for about 3 years but have used windows 7 regularly since the RC build was released to the public several months agoo (because i built a new rig, wanted to game...but not pay for the OS)
its actually quite stable, being basically a big upgrade on vista. in the RC the sleep settings didnt work very well, but that has been resolved in the Pro release. i was surprised to wake my computer up one morning, find that it had downloaded updates in the middle of the night and put itself back to sleep while saving the wordpad doc i had left open with some notes in it.
By and large, language is a tool for concealing the truth. -- George Carlin
You lost us at the wording "Why not?"
No professional ever changes for the sake of changing.
The community support is far from better, it's UBUNTU. Redhat/CentOS has a world of following. Besides, how many Oracle or install on Ubuntu by support-release?
Ubuntu hasn't proven itself as anything better than another way to do what Red Hat/CentOS has done in the server world.
Our entire data center is Red Hat/CentOS, with XEN virtualization and clustering. While I'm a Debian/Gentoo person, I've noticed the merits of using something industry-accepted when in a publically traded company.
-- This space for lease, low setup fee, inquire within!
It could still happen. I'm not saying it definitely will, I'm not saying it'll happen soon if it does, but the fact is that it is a capable OS, that is progressing with good speed, and does seem to be gaining more support over time. All it takes is the right backers to think that Linux is a worthwile endeavour and a lot could change. It may be wishful thinking in part, that doesn't mean it's impossible.
-- Lattyware (www.lattyware.co.uk)
I think you're totally wrong. The basics of the WIMP - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WIMP_(computing) - experience date way before Windows, and Microsoft only got file structure sensible - not storing data with programs - post Windows 95. Firefox across all operating systems can be configured to ask where to save documents so it's not an Ubuntu thing. And what's especially wrong with My Documents? The main thing Ubuntu tries to do is make it easy for people to understand how to use the OS. On that level, they succeed admirably. The same strategy is used for OpenOffice - make it like Office so people can adjust to it easily. That's the main goal - make it functional and easy to use, free and easy to install for as many people as possible. Those who need to can "escape" to the more advanced options. Being different for the sake of being different would be a terrible mistake.
I work in government rather than a publicly traded company, but as I said I was redoing the installs anyways as a result of moving to a virtual environment, so it's not like I was changing for the sake of changing.
Also, if you'll notice in my post, I never mention Oracle or any other application that doesn't work well on Ubuntu. The simple fact of the matter is that for what I'm using it for, Ubuntu works fine. Bandying about doom and gloom predictions isn't hampering my little Ubuntu VM's which have been humming along without a hiccup for the better part of a year now.
"People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
No, one thing that I love is the auto-network discovery when using Nautilus (not sure what the KDE version was called). I found no such thing in KDE and since I transfer stuff between my systems quite often, I'm not going to use something that makes that task difficult.
OS X, Windows, and every gnome, xfce, fluxbox, etc version of Linux I've used allows this feature. KDE was the only one that didn't allow it (or if it did, had it so well hidden that I didn't find it).
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." ~Thomas Jefferson
What the Hell is a Koala doing in China?
Goth Koalas are indistinguishable from Pandas.
It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his job depends on not understanding it.
Try NFS or CIFS, or even SFTP. KIO supports FISH, too.
But we've heard for well over a decade now that "any time now", Linux is going to have its day and "threaten Windows for dominance" .... and it never really happens.
It has happened on servers. People replace windows servers with linux servers all the time and find they are faster, more stable, and easier to manage. A lot of places will blindly stick to windows because that's what they know but that has always happened. A lot of old companies blindly stick to os/390, VMS, and other legacy stuff too.
Stop living vicariously through other modders.
No sig for you!!
Oracle is "not supported" on Ubuntu.
Whether or not it "works well" is entirely immaterial.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
It's pretty simple. Ubuntu is based on Debian and Debian has the best package manager around.
Not only does Debian have the best package manager around but they also strive to have very
comprehensive binary package repositories. So even someone with obscure interests may find
that what they want is "already there".
Take the "bleeding edge" quality off of Ubuntu and you've basically got Debian.
Call it "the turtle's son"...
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
Yes well, some of the problem is that the open source community doesn't work on one calendar. At any given time, some groups have decided to bork something with an architectural overhaul. There are distros that have tried to wait for the stars to align, but each time one issue is resolved three new appears. Rolling distros were even worse because they just randomly broke some day when you were patching up. Despite all the problems of releasing on the dot like *buntu does, I've found it the lesser of the evils. Test, does it work? If so keep else revert. If you don't want to play that game stay with the LTS, like you said the last LTS was quite good and the next LTS (in six months) will probably be too. They know that people that complain about the 6 months releases don't seem to be hurting enough to use the LTS, so it can't be that bad. Personally I skipped the 8.10 release but 9.04 was quite ok. If 9.10 is a flop I'll just wait for 10.04, that's the way you have to work with them, not all of them will work with you.
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
I guess I'll get shot for using the latest version of Kubuntu, Code-named Karmic Koala!
Your Ad here
Not many people are talking about the features. Number one on my list is the "Ubuntu Software Center" which is the initial version of what they plan to use as a centralized package manager and application store. The intention is for it to be the one and only location for software install, uninstall, and update. I've always felt package management was one area where Linux could really kick everyone else's butt if they could just polish it up, unify package types, and extend it to work with all software including commercial offerings. Maybe this will eventually morph into that.
I think it started as an attempt to merge the different package managers in use (currently spread across Add/Remove Applications, Synaptic Package Manager, Update Manager, Computer Janitor, and Software Sources applications). Then someone got the idea of copying the iPhone store, which fills a huge hole in Linux usability if they do it right. The only real question is how well they do it and how forward looking they are. The docs mention the potential of installing Windows apps into WINE using a later version of this manager, so maybe they're serious.
The other features that seem important here are the usability testing fixes from the extensive audit ongoing, the online services integration, the new default IM client, and the fixes for the audio system. It looks like they're really making some progress at least. Now if only they could get a few, small hardware vendors interested in selling cheap Linux boxes with it pre-installed and nicely tweaked for their hardware.
Let Me Google That for you: Karmic Koala Mobile Broadband 5101
Help stamp out iliturcy.
I love Ubuntu and have it on my desktop and netbook. I don't put it on my main laptop because, as I understand, it's had issues with killing the hard drive in laptops. I know they've implemented fixes and what not but I've yet to get a solid answer on whether this is definitely fixed. I just can not risk losing my hard drive when I may be away from home and unable to dump my work onto rsync.net or my home server.
Can anyone find me some solid proof that this has been sorted? I'm still having odd issues with Ubuntu and WEP. It may be fine to say you should use WPA but I can't force everyone I interact with to use it and quite frankly it shouldn't be having issues when it's like the biggest distro around.
Yeah because Windows or Snow Leopard are so much better. I suspect if they were advertising in TV and print it would be known only as Ubuntu 9.10.
i was surprised to wake my computer up one morning, find that it had downloaded updates in the middle of the night and put itself back to sleep while saving the wordpad doc i had left open with some notes in it.
See... that's just creepy to me.
RUGBYRUGBYRUGBY
And it's defaulted to off. And it's used to show popularity in the add/remove so it's designed to help the user.
I've been on 8.04 since it came out and all that time I can't think of anything resembling a commercial pitch. Except for buying a DVD or t-shirt on the website.
Hell, I enjoy being Windows-free so much that I'd be willing to help them out financially. Maybe by watching a couple ads or something. No joke.
You're right about the looks - but usability wise, I find gnome to be superior. I ran KDE for about 15 minutes before being so annoyed with not being able to do things I was used to in gnome that I switched back to gnome.
So you are saying you gave it a chance, huh?
So you buy a new computer, get it home, unpack it, call Acer, REPACK it, send your BRAND NEW laptop off to never-never land to be "repaired," then wait while it comes back to you... all for 58 bucks? And how much did you spend on shipping?
You truly must be one of those folks living in mom's basement with nothing else to do - cuz I marginally have anything to do (besides try to pay for this house) and there's just no way I would consider that much work worth 58 stinking dollars. And that's why it's rigged this way - you can "opt out" but it's so much effort as to be not worth it. And while it's essentially chump change to most folks, 58 bucks times a 100,000 machines adds up to... well, almost enough to pay Ballboy's salary.
You know this saying is so out there, I am waiting for Windows just to ship a bullshit sp1 to try to grab more market for 7 quicker.
A different UI, yes. A nice UI? Not so much.
- oZ
// i am here.
Lastly, Canonical has been getting uncomfortably cozy with tying in pay-for services into the OS, either theirs or 3rd parties. I was shocked when I logged into a 9.x machine and got a welcome message that pushed their statistical monitoring "service".
I was similarly shocked when I logged onto a sun box, which had cost over $30k, and found it dribbling
Our ubuntu netboot config file installs the basic server. This doesn't even come with ssh-server! We had a few indispensable utilities by default (like sshd) and we're good to go in 20 minutes.
File management is very hard to teach and reinforcing good habits helps, trust me, that and I had a lovely time introducing a young lady to the joy of xsane/gimp and scanning her family album.
I mean, not to say you don't have a right to be annoyed with some features, but your complaints strike me as odd.
- What's wrong with having a documents folder? It seems to me to be the best way to do things (having all your work in one easy to back up folder), and as far as I can tell the only difference between XP and Vista is that they took out the 'My'. Also OS/X and presumably other linux distros do the same thing -- what OS has a better model?
- Requiring root priveleges to perform administrative tasks was a primary feature of UNIX system from the beginning, long before the abbreviation UAC was ever uttered. It also proves to be good security, since it prevents code that can alter the core system from being run without user intervention (preventing many viruses and trojans).
- Defaulting to the desktop is a reasonable default. Its easy to find and use. If you want something different you can change it yourself. I also don't see how its copying Windows, as far as I know Firefox was the first place I saw that particular behavior.
I guess what I feel is that while some of the defaults may be designed to make it easier for Windows users to switch, the real power comes from the fact that you have a lot more range to try new things with Linux.
You can run deb :) They have one big feature over Cent; its not a problem to upgrade over major releases. Though I use Cent on most my servers as well.
I threw the release onto my T61 recently, and compared to Jaunty, it's certainly an evolutionary release. I'm sure Upstart is very cool, but I haven't seen any improvements in boot time. Nor are the HAL changes that impressive. And on my laptop, power consumption is worse by at least a few watts for reasons I have yet to fully explain (this is with all unnecessary modules disabled, wireless turned off, and X configured exactly the same as Jaunty, AFAICT). Meanwhile, NetworkManager seems to randomly forget my preferred AP and chooses to connect to a local, unlocked WAP... *really* annoying.
And they seem to have made some weird choices, too. The version of the iwlagn wifi driver (a driver for a number of very common Intel wifi chipsets on various laptops) included in Karmic doesn't include support for power management. And, oddly, they've included MythTV 0.22, which hasn't gone gold yet, without any official method for moving back to 0.21 (you can use the Mythbuntu repositories, but who knows how well that will work with upgrades, etc).
On the flipside, there are some nice fixes and feature additions (bluetooth support looks *much* better, the power manager properly supports multiple batteries, etc), but I'm just not sure it's worth the update.
Say what? I've never heard of this. I've been running Ubuntu on my laptop (a T61) since Feisty, and I've never had my harddrive "[killed]". Do you have any citation for this claim?
Koala Kola? "Mommy, why's the zookeeper going into the koala cage with a blender and Sprite?"
I've used both Centos and Ubuntu desktop. I wouldn't see much point in moving from Centos to Ubuntu unless you were starting a new project. I'm considering using Ubuntu server for a project because I have a lot of experience with Ubuntu now, having used the desktop for over 2 years now. I figure it will be easier if I'm not having to mentally adjust from Ubuntu to RH ways of doing things all the time. This should cut down on the mistakes I might otherwise make. I've never found a problem with anything CLI based in Ubuntu, i've only ever had audio and GUI issues. I figure it will be similar on the server. Of course, I'll read a lot of reviews prior to embarking down that path.
If I have seen further it is by stealing the Intellectual Property of giants.
then call it Ubuntu 9.10.
The idiot names are great keywords for google when searching for an issue for a particular version. Makes sure you don't end up with issues from 10 year old releases in your search results.
> I get the advantages of ubuntu on the desktop but on there
> server why would you want to switch from CentOS to Ubuntu?
You wouldn't. On a server you'd use Debian.
HTH.HAND.
Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.
I've been using Debian for years. I'm thinking about buying a new PC, if there any BFDs this black friday.
I suppose Ubuntu gives me an easier setup, although I have no problem setting up debian. I suppose Unbuntu also gives me a live cd. Anything else?
> CentOS is great for organizations that use RHEL
> but don't need paid support on every server instance.
Okay, yeah, I can see that. If you use RHEL, your people are all going to be familiar with it, so CentOS would be the "stick with what we already know" choice. There's a lot to be said for that.
I'm not in that situation though. The OS we have paid support for does not use an open-source kernel, if you know what I'm saying. So for the servers we don't need paid support for (i.e., most of them) we use Debian. This is not an ideological choice; it's just what we find easiest to manage. And the community support for Debian is as good as for any OS or distribution I've ever had dealings with, and a good deal better than some.
Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.
I remember that it was reported on slashdot ages ago. As far as I know the cause was identified (something to do with parking the heads too often or so) and fixed quickly. I ran Ubuntu for ages on my personal laptop. ("ran" because I borrowed it to a friend in need of a laptop and I reinstalled Win32 for him) I'm still running it on my work laptop. Never had any issues.
Besides, if the GP is so scared he should learn about one word: "Backup".
Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
I remember when even ./configure was a godsend!!
I wholeheartedly agree with you on Debian's utility and ease of use. I've been running it on nearly all my production servers for a decade, and I couldn't be happier. Of course, now there's a few Ubuntu servers in the mix, too... but they're really just tweaked Debian installs ;).
512 MB RAM, 20 GB disk, 200 GB transfer, five datacenters. $19.95/month.
I must be getting old. The parent has been modded as informative, but to me it just looks like the poster had a stroke as they were typing in the message.
I hope the recovery goes well, either way!
So you are this guy? If so, how much you want for an Alyson Hannigan model? I'll pay extra if you put her in the Buffy "Vamp Willow" leather outfit before shipping!
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
> while saving the wordpad doc i had left open with some notes in it.
Are you sure that happened? And it's not you who did it and forgot?
Did it really save the wordpad doc to a file? If it did, I consider it a bug. Whereas if it just suspended or saved the memory state ("hibernate") then that's fine.
Why? Because the first way creates opportunities for so many more side effects.
It's the first post-major-centos-guy-went-awol-for-nine-months release of CentOS.
Get it now!
Kriston
Uuuhhhhh...You Do know that Windows XP SP3 is actually supported until 2014 right? You can say a lot of nasty things about MSFT but I don't see any Linux distros supporting an OS for 13 years. Hell if you wanted you could probably just stay on WinXP and wait for Windows 8 if that's what you wanted, but from what I've heard and will know for sure when my Win7 HP discs arrive Win7 is actually a pretty good OS.
So say what you want about MSFT but supporting XP for 13 years....I don't see how you can ask for more LTS than that. I mean hell, they kept giving old Win98 updates until...what 2006? Most XP boxes will have died or been replaced before XP reaches EOL. And considering that Canonical cranks out Ubuntu releases every six months (which is just crazy IMHO) I don't see how you can say "MS mentality of everyone must always run the newest version of everything or else you won't be protected " with a straight face. How long does Canonical support the NON LTS versions for again?
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
Right, because 8.04LTS has been out as long as XP, and it also will be supported as long as XP ...
wait ... ...
wait
No, XP was out first and XP will be supported for longer than Ubuntu 8.04LTS ... 8.04 was released 5 years later and support ends nearly 3 years earlier for the desktop version and at least 6 months earlier than XP.
If you want to install 10.x LTS, which isn't anywhere release, and isn't planned to be for at least another 6 months, then you can get support for the server version for about a year and a half after XP support ends. Desktop support STILL ends at least 6 months before XP does.
The 'long term' part of LTS is a freaking joke.
Source:
http://www.ubuntu.com/products/whatisubuntu/serveredition/benefits/lifecycle
Really, 8.04 supports the newest features? So what does 9.x have that 8.x doesn't? Let me give you a dose of reality, Ubuntu may support some things for a little while, but nothing in Linux has long term support, it is a CONSTANT upgrade cycle. Just because you don't 'pay for upgraded software' doesn't mean there is no cost. When will you people get that?
I'm sorry, what was your point again, I was so blown away by how disconnected from reality you are that I forgot.
Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
I switched from Debian to Ubuntu because:
1. I was sick of the rolling upgrade of running testing/sid, and Debian's stable releases were too far apart.
2. I got a new PC which needed the latest kernel for support. The Debian kernel packages in experimental were a version behind, but Ubuntu's were up to date. Also, there's always fresh kernels at http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/.
Basically Ubuntu is Debian stable with more frequent releases. If you don't need that, nope, there's no reason to switch.
The best package manager? That's a highly subjective assertion. I run Arch on my desktops and laptops, but decided to give Eeebuntu a try when I bought this netbook. Granted, it does have some benefits - suspend/wakeup works flawlessly out of the box, as does turning features on/off and adjusting cpu frequency via a GUI. But pacman, how I miss thee. Apt is just painfully slow. When I want to install a package, I expect the package manager to do just that, not try to calculate the answer to life, the universe and everything in the process. And abs/makepkg combo is much more convenient method for building custom packages; and creating PKGBUILDs for your own packages is trivial. There are certainly benefits for desktop usage in *buntus, but apt is IMHO not one of them.
Actually nothing wrong with the new folders that I can see. The alternative is the old way which is to just dump everything into home. If you want to see what it's like just to dump everything in one directory, just go to usr/bin .. sure you don't have to figure which folder it's in..
waiting for ad.doubleclick.net
Have you been trying the 4.x series? In the early releases 4.0-4.2.x a lot of KDE 3 series functionality was missing because they just rushed it out of the door. Starting with KDE 4.3.x and beyond things are starting to get back on track. Maybe you need to give KDE 4.4 a try when it comes out...
Gnome ehm... is just for the majority of users I guess. I personally stepped off the cool and sexy bandwagon and started using E16 because the only thing I really want to do with my OS anyway is connecting to the internet, adjust the volume, look at the time and date and run applications and that at the speed you'd expect computers to have in this day and age...
This is ofcourse just personal because I don't think that there are a lot of Enlightenment users out there, let alone version 16 users :P
Here be signatures
I'm the only admin in our small shop, and when we needed an Oracle DB set up on an *old* machine for the devs, we tried to set up CentOS first, but the min hardware requirements for running both were too much for the box. Did I mention it was *old*? Ubuntu server slid right on there, and I found a walkthrough to make it look enough like Redhad for Oracle to run.
Please note: I don't have real admin training, I'm just the closest our shop has, and yes, the cheap SOB I work for should have sprung for something built in this millenia, at least.
When you want something built, come see me. If you want correct grammar and spelling, get a F*ing liberal arts student.
Clearly you have issues with reading as I pointed out I do backup to two places.
I'm sure it's not the biggest worry in the world but it's still potentially a risk and one I'd rather do without since I can't always access rsync.net or my own machine 24 hours a day 365 days a year.
Just wanted to say that we have 3 CentOS servers left and it's because of Fedora DS (now 389).
The minute we move the LDAP systems from that to any Ubuntu version, we will drop the 3 CentOS crap from the network.
The advantage is having cfengine rules that works for all desktops and servers in the environment (since they are all the same operating system flavor, though they can be at different revisions).
Testing stuff from one OS to the next, with different permutations of architectures and other hardware stuff, is something that belongs in our past history. We are too tired for that now.
This sig can be distributed under the LGPL license
I'm working on a project that uses LabView and Matlab. Although they will work on Ubuntu, the fact that we need support for all the software (per the final customer) means that the production systems will be running RHEL. CentOS is a great choice for dev systems - I've used it for servers for years, and it's my primary workstation OS. The netbook, though, definitely runs Ubuntu.
I will agree that the LTS versions of Ubuntu aren't bad, and playing catchup with PHP versions can be annoying with CentOS if you're trying to keep up with the latest version of a lot of open source web apps, but the simple truth is that most of your proprietary software vendors support RHEL and SuSE. If you're lucky, FreeBSD and OSX. A lot of that proprietary software will also work on CentOS. I know, I know, using proprietary software brands me as a heretic, but find me a open source tool that duplicates what LabView does, including the hardware sensor integration.
Why can't I mod "-1 Idiot"?
No, I read that... but if you have problems losing 24 hours of your work, you should be continually backing up. Like having a USB drive on which you backup additionally when on the road. If you fear losing your data while on the road: find a solution. The solution is backup on USB disk. (Since as I could understand why would have no net access to use rsync)
Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
You're right about the looks - but usability wise, I find gnome to be superior. I ran KDE for about 15 minutes before being so annoyed with not being able to do things I was used to in gnome that I switched back to gnome.
Yeah, I used a Mac for about 15 minutes and was annoyed with not being able to do things I was used to in Windows. That's why I find Windows is superior.
And I used Linux for about 15 minutes and was annoyed with not being able to do things I was used to in Windows. That's why I find Windows is superior.
And I used Windows 95 for about 15 minutes and was annoyed with not being able to do things I was used to in Windows 3.1. That's why Windows 3.1 is still the bestest OS ever!
Surely you mean she uses Linux, right?
Sadly, he probably doesn't.
If so, how much you want for an Alyson Hannigan model? I'll pay extra if you put her in the Buffy "Vamp Willow" leather outfit before shipping!
I'll pay extra if you don't.
Subbing for the pandas after they all moved to the far north.
If I only had mod points.... You are absolutly correct, each release impresses....then breaks. There is always something going on with ubuntu that isnt quite right, or breaks later on. But more importantly, I too am getting concerned with the direction it is taking.
With Ubuntu's popularity, I've seen projects set their release schedule to fit Ubuntu's.
Unlock the panel widgets and drag all widgets from the top panel to the bottom panel (yes, it's more cramped than Windows because there are three start menus in GNOME)
There's only three if you use the "Menu Bar" widget. If you use the "Main Menu" applet, it's just a single icon, which opens out to provide the applications, as well as the places and system menus.
I work in a very well-known Fortune 500 company, and it's all RHEL here, with a few people running Fedora on the desktop. You see, in the REAL real world, it's still almost all Red Hat and Novell Suse (and some CentOS).
What does a Fortune 500 company have to do with the real world?
There's nothing subjective about it.
Want an obscure package? Yes or no?
Want it to sort out all of the details? Yes or no?
Slow? Who cares? The point is comprehensiveness and
ease of use. The idea is to be able type or use the
GUI equivalent of "apt-get mythbuntu" or "apt-get
moviegate" and have all of the details seamlessly
sorted out.
It's the ease of use that Windows Lemmings always
whine that Linux doesn't have (when it really does).
Most people don't want Gentoo or Gentoo-lite.
Perhaps I should have been more clear the first time:
apt makes Debian a superior choice. Not just Ubuntu.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
At first, I did what any geek would do: tried to 'mimic' the production environment with my favorites, including my distro-of-the-month (currently Arch Linux). After spending way too much time realizing that things like VMware tools, Oracle, and our own software (designed for RedHat) needed a lot of tweaking to get working, I decided to try CentOS. Let's just say things have been much more smooth with CentOs.
Having a Documents folder is fine but the way XP did it was terrible. Part of learning to use a computer is to learn to manage files and folders. The "My xxx" structure makes it hard to do this... it's hard to type into anything, and the way it's implemented even kinda hides the fact they're folders. The average user does understand files and folders but they don't necessarily immediately understand that their pictures in My Pictures are still just files in a folder and can be treated the same way. Also, XP treats My Documents as the user's home folder, even though it's not really so... the home folder is above it. Vista's structure didn't just remove "My", it fixed the structure to include a visible home folder...specifically it's C:\Users\username\{Documents,Pictures,Downloads,...}, which is also good for us techies as it's not buried deep in a long-named folder somewhere... it's very Unixy actually. I admittedly didn't look to see how Ubuntu does its My Documents behind the scenes but it turned me off instantly so I didn't particularly want to know.
For the root access thing, it isn't requiring root access that's my problem with UAC (and to a lesser extent with Ubuntu), it's the constant nagging and switching in and out of admin mode. The way it usually works is either you're admin and you can do whatever, or you're not and you can do nothing. Okay so for Linux we have sudo for a temporary admin, but that's intended to be consciously done up front. Unfortunately it doesn't seem to translate too well graphically. But UAC doesn't even try to teach the user that one thing should be done as admin and another not, it just nags the user about doing everything the least bit dangerous, then lets them do it if they say yes enough times. So for the average user I think it is better to enforce the old-fashioned "superuser" concept rather than allow slipping in and out.
I think IE started saving to desktop, and Firefox copied it. It is easy to turn off but most people don't. I've seen so many people whose desktops are full of a bunch of old junk files they never use anymore, and the worst part is that then they complain their computer is hard to use. In my book, any feature that encourages that kind of a mess shouldn't be emulated.
That's the main goal - make it functional and easy to use, free and easy to install for as many people as possible. Those who need to can "escape" to the more advanced options. Being different for the sake of being different would be a terrible mistake.
I replied elsewhere on the specifics about My Documents, but this bit caught my I because I actually totally agree with it. Indeed, I wasn't advocating being different for the heck of it, but rather not being the same for the sake of being the same. In other words, don't blindly copy the more questionable features of Windows along with the good ones just to keep a familiar user experience. Instead, take the good stuff from Windows and the good stuff from Linux and integrate them, and where they don't mesh very well then find new approaches. The problem -- and I say this generally and not as an accusation pointed at Ubuntu or anyone else -- is that it's much easier and quicker to copy rather than innovate.
So.... what's better than My Documents (or some other similarly named directory)? I'm glad Gnome backed away from the conceptual spatial version of directories. Traditional folders are easy enough to understand, complemented with cross system search. Unfortunately the open source world is not very good at front end innovation, but with the quality of the underpinnings (any OS is doomed to reinvent) is very good at understanding and accommodating approaches of the day. I'd like to see the free software world charge ahead with an amazing resolution free and shared timeline branching desktop.
You do know that upgrades are free? Right? And if you are a person that needs support and pays for it(otherwise you'll just upgrade), you will just hire one of the Linux hackers for support.
If MS gave me free upgrade to Win7 from WinXP, I would definitely upgrade and they would not need to support WinXP till 2014.
Lastly, Canonical has been getting uncomfortably cozy with tying in pay-for services into the OS, either theirs or 3rd parties. I was shocked ...
Wow, a commercial company that has the audacity to try to make some money, I'm shocked too...
But we've heard for well over a decade now that "any time now", Linux is going to have its day and "threaten Windows for dominance"
Every OS has its fanboys. I've been listening for over a decade to Win/Mac fanboys talk about 'crap Linux'. I just chuckle, and go on running Linux on my Windowless desktop...
I think it's rather idealistic to believe Linux can somehow overtake a gigantic commercial endeavor to make and market an operating system
'overtaking' MS is a stretch, sure. But the reason Ballmer includes Linux with Apple as MS's main concerns is that unlike a commercial endeavor, he knows they can't buy or kill Linux off. Whole different kind of ballgame for MS now...
convincing a massive number of existing Windows users
Aside from the fanboys, what many of the rest of us are hoping for is simply enough of an impact on the market to break MS's monopoly power/influence over it, and 'we' (Linux/*BSDs/Apple) together don't need a lot of the market share to accomplish that. It especially doesn't depend on *current* home Windows users. The real battle is for future mindshare within the business sector and among younger new users. *That* is what has got Ballmer throwing furniture...
about 18 years ago, THEN we'd have more of a "fair fight".
We're dealing with a monopoly, so by definition, it is not a fair fight. If victory happens at all, it'll take awhile.
having spent much of its existence concentrating on being true to its Unix roots with shell scripts, a command line, and catering more to server administration
That by itself, the prospect of Linux getting established within the business sector for server use, has got Ballmer scared to death. He can't buy Linux, he can't kill Linux, and he can't beat Linux's price. Any sector Linux gets established in, is one MS will have a very hard if not impossible time trying to take back.
I don't foresee some dominating victory that you're describing here, but thats ok since we don't really need one. My crystal ball does tell me that there will be more damaged furniture and broken glass in Redmond's future though...
People only care about the major distro's, as you can see.
I am not devoid of humor.
You mean YOU will be delayed.
I am not devoid of humor.
Does that mean someone from Canonical is gonna come out and fix it when the new "free" update totally borks my sound and hoses my wireless? Didn't think so. Just because it is free, don't mean it is good.
I have been trying Ubuntu since the 6.xx and it always seemed to me they just whip out new versions with new bugs, rather than actually taking the time to fix the distro and make it stable. Which I can completely understand, as it is easier to get guys to work on new hotness for free than the boring job of fixing bugs in some piece of code they didn't even write in the first place. But that is why I have been saying for quite awhile that Linux is NOT like Windows, but should be compared to OSX instead. Like OSX if you have the "right" hardware you got nothing but smooth sailing ahead, but unlike OSX where you don't get a choice on the hardware the big IF is the whole "right" hardware bit.
Which is why I finally had to give up on Linux, because my experience was every time I updated I got to spend 3-5 days dealing with some royal PITA broken hardware. Compare to my Windows box where I just ran the Win7 upgrade Adviser and the ONLY problem it found was a $15 capture card that the company went out of business before even Vista was released. So say what you want about Windows, but I spend too much time fixing other folk's computers, I just don't want to spend my free time trawling forums and staring at a CLI trying to get my wireless, or my sound, or my graphics, etc to working. It just ain't worth the trouble to me when I got Windows 7 for a whole $50, and picked up XP x64 (which I'm running now) for $89 when everyone still thought Vista was good.
My time is $50 an hour minimum, so it don't take long for the Windows "tax" to be well worth the cash.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
Examples please, or are you just spreading FUD?
I installed Ubuntu Netbook Remix 9.10 on my asus 1000hg. It worked perfectly! Pretty UI, Hardware supported, I didn't have to get the arrays.org kernels for eeepc support. Inserted a simcard unto my built-in huawei module, configured it via network manager and voila! mobile internet! I was riding the bus this morning and everyone is looking at me! :) Obviously I had to brag and turn on Compiz and everyone was like wow! Downside was battery life, roughly 4 to 4.8 hours but configuring laptop-mode-tools and powertop gave me 4.9 to 5.7 battery life.
Kind of how 7 is really just "mostly fixed" Vista. Incremental improvements.
"See... that's just creepy to me."
Wait until you come home to find your computer has neatly ironed and folded your linen, vacuumed the floor, fed the dog, bathed the cat, baked lasagna, set the table, poured champagne, and has slipped into some sexy lingerie.
Sometimes an interface can be TOO user-friendly.
You are not a brain: http://books.google.com/books?id=2oV61CeDx-YC
lol :D