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Scientists Build a Smarter Rat
destinyland writes "Scientists have engineered a more intelligent rat, with three times the memory length of today's smartest rats. Reseachers bred transgenic over-expression of the NR2B gene, which increased communication between the rat's memory synapses. Activating a crucial brain receptor for just a fraction of a second longer produces a dramatic effect on memory, as proven by the rat's longer memories of the path through a maze."
When they can scale it up from lawyers to humans, we might have something useful to talk about.
Mrs. Frisby will be pleased...
Summation 2
...of NIMH coming soon...
They always said that science could bread more intelligent rats, but did they REALLY have to???
While I know that this sort of research is ultimately aimed at improving human life, for some reason I can't shake the image of a mad scientist making super-smart dogs, the experiment going awry, and an apocalyptic future of human-pitbull wars.
The English word fart is one of the oldest words in the English vocabulary.
"Flowers for Algernon" was the first association that popped up from the depths of my mind...
3 * 42 = 126?
or does this work exponentially :)
Strangely enough, but to prove I am not a bot in a post about evolving mice I needed to type evolve into the textfield.
Special upgrade pricing - 25% off with trade-in of your old rat.
We need this about as much as we need a much stronger more deadly flu virus.
When rats are vermin and carry disease, why make them even better a survival? or are they scientists thinking that if they get clever enough they'll start writing software for a living?
*Clap clap*
Way to be original. How about forgetting the boring, pointless, stupid "Oh-my-God-I-can-use-a-meme!" references and contribute something intelligent. Or fuck off back to your imageboard.
I will spring for the flowers, Charlie. Just don't act like a jerk.
Even the most forgetful person can be reminded of an event and recall it with vivid clarity. Alzheimer's sufferers can overcome some of the difficulties of the disease with a device like the Life Recorder.
So when we say that someone's (or some rat's) memory is improved, what exactly is improved? Is it the recall ability? If so, does that mean that the rat is somehow able to logically filter out unnecessary information to reach the important memory? Or does it mean that the rat's memory has been structured in a better way? Is it only a spatial thing, or can it work for any type of information?
As someone with a bad memory, I would be very interested in understanding how this actually works within the rat's brain.
It's Pinky and the Brain, Pinky and the Brain. One is a genuis The other's insane. They're laboratory mice Their genes have spliced. NARF!
Hamato Yoshi got his pet from.
I eat Karma for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. That's why I don't have any.
So they overclocked the rats? Cool!
Seeing these posts is like listing to Monty Python's "I Like Traffic Lights" song.
So what is next? No more gold fish memory jokes?!!!!
Love many, trust a few, do harm to none.
So we are all agreed then that genes can have a major impact on intelligence? And it follows then that like the genes for say height and pigmentation, the genes that contribute to intelligence have different distribution patterns in different populations? And that James Watson was unfairly pilloried for his opinions on this matter?
Kind of old news; the first report that NR2B overexpression improves rodent performance in some behavioral tests of learning and memory was was published in 1999. The nice thing here is that the investigators now have it working in the rat, which is a more difficult animal for transgenic studies, and a better one for behavioral work and electrophysiology.
Nevertheless, it raises an interesting question: if intelligence can be increased by something so simple as an increase in the expression of a single NMDA receptor subunit, why hasn't it already happened? Presumably, there is a selective advantage to improved learning and memory. Presumably, there is some kind of downside that balances that selective advantage. Are there other behaviors for which the rat is impaired?
this has already been done at HLM Laboratories in sonoma, ca
Good people go to bed earlier.
How about forgetting the boring, pointless, stupid "Oh-my-God-I-can-use-a-meme!" references and contribute something intelligent. Or fuck off back to your imageboard.
No...
After all, if more memory were that simple, surely evolution would have changed that gene by itself. If it were a tradeoff, that would be much more logical.
So what did these rats lose ? Do they have gaps in long term memory ?
I'd watch out for the "no free lunch" idea holding true here too.
Biological overclocking. How long before they try nitrogen cooling?
is it true the smart rats escaped and made a beeline to 85 Broad St, NY, NY?
At 2:14 am on August 29th, NR2B+ A23, aka "Pinky", became self-aware. After a brief bout of tail chasing, coupled with a sudden realization, "Holy crap, I'm a f'ing rat." Pinky began to fear being shut down by his creators.
And so it began....
That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
Due to his enhanced memory, the rat could not push her out of his mind. The memories refused to fade with time. The slightest sight or scent would cause him not just to remember his intense passion and total devotion, but also to relive it, as if she were still there with him. Moments later, as reality returned, he inevitably re-experienced that October afternoon when she left. The despair cut to the bottom of his soul in a way far more intense than the original break-up had been, as shock had initially numbed his pain. No more. His perfect memory of perfect happiness lifted him up so high, the inevitable fall came from an unimaginable height, and terminal velocity does not apply to emotions.
After enduring this torture for what seemed an eternity, he finally gave in, and resolutely marched toward the wire-framed cheese, her angelic body still vivid in his mind...
A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
We need like... 4 page reviews, maximum.
welcome our new Rat Bastard overlords!
New?
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
You must be new here.
About eight years ago I read about a line of experiments that measurably increased rodents' performance in a set of memory and learning tasks. I believe the genetic change involved the NMDA receptor, but a quick search doesn't turn up an obvious link to that.
There was a report this September that gene therapy had been used to grant "full" color vision to colorblind monkeys, following on an earlier experiment that did the same thing to rodents. That is, the rodents were given three-color vision where they normally have two color receptor types. (Would that make them transrodents?) Apparently, the brain automatically adapts to having a new receptor type installed in the retina! And the same technique could be used on humans to grant us a fourth receptor type, maybe a UV receptor gotten from parrots or something. I'd volunteer to have this done to one eye. (The first comment on this article presents a dissenting view that just because the monkeys were able to distinguish colors in greater detail than before, that shouldn't be taken as proof that they "have full color vision". All the more reason to try it in a human!)
The rodents could be in combination with cyborg cats though, as seen in this 1995 report of recognizable images read directly from a cat's visual cortex.
Revive the Constitution.
Larger L2 cache.
I say that somewhat jokingly, but picked L2 as an imperfect analogy. RAM or L3 could also work. But basically, it appears these rats can remember a larger short term list. Not the immediate data (wall in front of me / L1), not all data (everything learned to date / RAM), but a working set of reference data (maze directions / L2)
Again, this is just my half joking analogy. Please feel to modify or disregard.
The world is made by those who show up for the job.
"The rats have gotten smarter...even problem solving intelligence...you know when that one looks at you, she's figuring things out..."
"Scientists were so concerned with whether or not they could make the perfect rat, they never stopped to ask if they should!"
- (Paraphrases a la J.P.)
...damn, forgot what I was going to say.
So let me get this straight: Scientists gave up on building a better mouse trap, for which the world have beaten a path to their doors, and instead they went the indirect route of building a better rat to chew a path through the world's doors?
Demanding constant attention will only lead to attention.
corrected link
I mean, having genetically modified plants spread through the world is one thing.
Having basically every animal around us given near chimpansee-like intelligence is an altogether different one.
Rats can, rarely and under extreme circumstances, eat a lot of different stuff. Including babies. (no kidding: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,255328,00.html). I would much rather have a stupid rat that starves to death, than an intelligent rat that goes to lengths to get access to stuff to eat. The same for birds and pretty much any other animal. "Intelligent cats" would probably make a great pet idea - but no so great if they start forming cat gangs to ambush and kill dogs.
Man, that's all we need, to succumb to a plague of genetically engineered rats.
This is my sig.
You might want to see a doctor if hearing a particular song causes you to lose balance. I'm not saying tumor or anything, but you might want to check it out.
This issue is a bit more complicated than you think.
You mean, like "In soviet Russia, our new Rat Bastard overlords welcome YOU"? :-) Of course, in Korea, only old people forget those references. Maybe they got Alzheimer ...
Well, imagine a Beowulf cluster of memory-improved rats. Given how fast rats reproduce, this would give an exponential speedup of your calculation. However, do those rats run Linux? Maybe we would need memory-enhanced penguins instead. But those don't breed as fast ...
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
welcome our new Rat Bastard overlords!
New?
Well, bribing these Rat Bastards with cheese is much cheaper than bribing our old masters with large campaign contributions, blackjack and of coarse the strippers.
Time to call for Doomwatch
http://www.doomwatch.org/season1tomorrowtheratreview.html
We regret to inform the /. community that the above user was found dead in an alley this afternoon, apparently a victim to an attack by R.o.U.S.es.
"If still these truths be held to be
Self evident."
-Edna St. Vincent Millay
However, do those rats run Linux? Maybe we would need memory-enhanced penguins instead. But those don't breed as fast ...
You must be doing something wrong...
You are trying to bread the penguins with OTHER penguins right?
Actually, I applaud you for using your user name!
Here's to hot beer, cold women, and Glaswegian kisses for all.
Continued progress along these lines won't end well for us.
Did we learn nothing from Deep Blue Sea? (Or this: IntelliMouse?)
I, for one, welcome <you know the rest...>
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
I find it easier to bread things using, err, bread.
Good stuff.
can't remember how this meme should go.
Nevermore.
Thats just what the word needs, a smarter rat. YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG!
on second thought, forget the campaign contributions... and the blackjack.
"If still these truths be held to be
Self evident."
-Edna St. Vincent Millay
You know, I have one simple request. And that is to have rats with frickin' heat sinks attached to their heads!
Just what we need, smarter rats. Now I'll just have to build a better mousetrap.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
One of my scientist friends was on this team. We'd always go to the renaissance faires together -- she was always big into the art booths, always liked those renaissance period painters. Her work was on turtles though...
Unfortunately, attempts at breeding smarter rats has lead to an overpopulation of overpaid finance executives. Meanwhile, current research on engineering an ethical politician has hit a brick wall ...
Coarse strippers are rough!
I drank what? -- Socrates
I for one welcome our new rat overlords.
I regret that I only have one mod point to give per post.
OMG! I can't believe I was actually on the internet when the FIRST EVER expression of displeasure towards an overused meme was posted! So fresh, so original, so... intelligent! You truly are a hero of the internet!!!
Thanks for standing up for us, the little guys, who see memes posted day after day but are unable to do anything about it. You, sir, have surely stopped, once and for all, this abuse of popular culture.
What ya gona do tonight?
Same thing we do every night.
try to take over the world.!!!
--= Isn't it surprising how badly I spell ?
Somewhere a joke about the Stainless Steel Rat is waiting to appear, but I can't find it. Clearly I need some of that memory enhancement.
https://app.box.com/WitthoftResume Code: https://github.com/cellocgw
They forgot to take into account the lead scientist had alzheimers and hence the memory span of a goldfish.
No good can come of this..
"For millions of years man and rats had been natural enemies. But now for the first time - suddenly, shockingly, horribly - the balance of power had shifted."
http://www.james-herbert.co.uk/rats.htm
a rat with a higher capacity blatter and a weener that would spread nano drops of urine in arrow shaped fashion so that the rat could finds its way through the maze more efficiently...
next step will be a rat that can mark dead ends with crosses after having found out again...
Thank you, my loyal subject.
1/3 of jokes get modded OT. If you get the joke, mod 1 in 3 insightful/interesting/underrated to restore karma balance.
...and maybe they will remember where I parked my car.
So instead of deserting sinking ships, they'll be able to evaluate a vessel's seaworthiness before choosing whether to board?
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
... in case my dull joke was over a few of you: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hitchhiker's_Guide_to_the_Galaxy
Unfortunately, the rat began hanging out on the Internet, posting on Slashdot, reading manga, got fat, started smelling bad, never got to mate, and its genes died out.
Now we've got RatNet!
Have gnu, will travel.
Another possibility is that rats and mice in the wild already have this, but that research animals, which have been through many generations of selection for docility and manageability, under-express NR2B.
That's weird. I was sure this was another article about Wall Street and derivatives dealers.
Although I admit the difference at-a-glance is often very hard to discern, and often requires intelligence on the part of the viewer to recognize it... takes one to know one? Think about how many so-called IT experts you probably know who seem like true experts until you force them to step outside the box of everything they've memorized, whereupon they resort to either making shit up, buck-passing, or hand-wringing. Any monkey can memorize shit... it requires intelligence to be able to interpolate and extrapolate beyond that. Far more people have the memory without the requisite intelligence. (There's also people who have the requisite intelligence without the memory, but that's a disorder for another discussion.)
I find it easier to bread things using, err, bread.
Slashdot - NEWS FOR NERDS. STUFF THAT MATERS. NO SPELLING MISTAKES ALLOWED!
**yes filter bot I am yelling at you**
They can when they are out on open ground, but rats spend most of their time underground, so cats are not very good at controlling rat populations. If they could, our cities wouldn't be getting overrun by rats.
If you want to control mice, rat populations, try the weasel family instead; Polecats, weasels, stoats/ermines, ferrets.
Deleted
Thanks for standing up for us, the little guys, who see memes posted day after day but are unable to do anything about it. You, sir, have surely stopped, once and for all, this abuse of popular culture.
I for one, welcome our new meme overlords!
Coarse strippers are rough!
Yes my spelling function currently has a few memory leaks but I am hoping that the service pack takes care of that...
Good choice in candidate species for uplift there scientists...(NOT)
Actually, I applaud you for using your user name!
Why? What could possibly go wrong?
If my karma ever drops below Excellent I will simply post a few messages saying how great the PS3 is or maybe a few about how the iPhone is so much better than any other phone, or I could just discuss how horrible Micro$oft and the Government are.
How could you miss this opportunity:
tag: pinkyandthebrain
For Gods' Sake!!!
Are we sure it's NR2B? I.e., NR2B or NR-not-2B. That is the question.
-- Jim Crigler In 1937, I began, like Lazarus, the impossible return. -- Whittaker Chambers
Just what NYC needs: Smarter Rats
"No matter how cynical you get, it is impossible to keep up." -- Lily Tomlin
#1 - He is intelligent and not a SlashBot,
#2 - Has anything of value to contribute,
#3 - He is even attempting to contribute,
and then this is slashdot, it is 'cool' to spout unsubstantiated crap and troll.
SlashDot getting slower and more bloated by the release.
errr....umm...*whooosh* *whoosh* Is this thing on ?
New memory technology, we dub thee Mouse Inline Memory Module (MIMM).
Re-solving a problem rather than applying the stored solution might have survival advantages. While other species might store memories longer, there are probably other mechanisms, or perhaps just environmental context, that prevents longer memories from becoming a problem.
"The ability to delude yourself may be an important survival tool" - Jane Wagner -
Somebody, please, tell me this tech can be translated to larger/higher mammals, so that we can create a smarter than the average bear!
re Johny Mnemonic: A few more years of tests and nobody would use a human to traffic data when one could use a perfectly scalable rat solution.
Mrs Frisby gives her whole-hearted aproval to this endeavor.
#28: My pet monster will be kept in a secure cage from which it cannot escape and into which I could not accidentally stumble.
Although, #48 works just as well...
#48 I will treat any beast which I control through magic or technology with respect and kindness. Thus if the control is ever broken, it will not immediately come after me for revenge.
[End Of Line]
I've seen this kind of response so many times before ...
A Good Troll is better than a Bad Human.
I've seen this kind of response so many times before ...
Words can be very hurtful and it's horrible that anyone would write such harsh and hateful things when all I was trying to do was brighten up someones day (namely mine). What is slashdot coming to when the use of first post memes is forbidden? Clearly this article about making 'Rat Bastards' smarter should, by defecation, meet the requirements for my overlords comment...
Please think of the children next time...
640kb should be enough for any rat
I thought they worked in government
Only his tendency toward a dazed stupor prevented him from screaming aloud.
It's the "Secret of Nimh" all over again
Release it to the nature.
The downside is that they're always trying to take over the world.