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TSA's Sloppy Redacting Reveals All

A travel blog breaks the story of a poor job of redacting by the TSA: they posted a PDF of airport screening policies, with certain sections blacked out — not realizing that simply laying a black rectangle over the text is hardly sufficient. Cryptome has posted a copy with the redaction removed (ZIP).

605 comments

  1. Actual Link to the zip by hcmtnbiker · · Score: 4, Informative
    --
    If i had one dollar for every brain you dont have, i would have $1.
    1. Re:Actual Link to the zip by Draek · · Score: 1

      And a mirror here (from TFA's comments) in case the above goes belly-up due to the Slashdot effect.

      --
      No problem is insoluble in all conceivable circumstances.
    2. Re:Actual Link to the zip by TejWC · · Score: 1

      They posted the malformed link just to prevent censorship via the slashdot effect.

    3. Re:Actual Link to the zip by JWSmythe · · Score: 2, Interesting

          Since they mangled the link in the story, I'm pretty sure it's mostly Slashdot-effect-proof. Or I guess that would be slashdoteffectproof. :)

      --
      Serious? Seriousness is well above my pay grade.
    4. Re:Actual Link to the zip by Kral_Blbec · · Score: 5, Funny

      dude, you zipped a pdf....
      thats almost as bad as when my mom puts a jpg in a doc to email it.

    5. Re:Actual Link to the zip by girlintraining · · Score: 2, Insightful

      dude, you zipped a pdf....thats almost as bad as when my mom puts a jpg in a doc to email it.

      When you're expecting several tens of thousands of people to download it in a short time period -- every kilobyte helps.

      --
      #fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
    6. Re:Actual Link to the zip by afidel · · Score: 4, Informative

      Then use mod_gzip (if the text field's aren't already compressed, which they can be) and mod_cache.

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    7. Re:Actual Link to the zip by Looce · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I know your post was meant to be a joke, but a .zip file is not usually opened automatically by a Web browser like a .pdf is, and the guess might be that most people who open that document would want to save it. I don't know why; maybe it's because cryptome.org expects to get a takedown request soon from the Transportation Security Administration in a great display of Streisand effect... :)

    8. Re:Actual Link to the zip by zmotula · · Score: 3, Funny

      Just this weekend I experienced a flash game embedded in a XLS enclosed in an Outlook .eml file. I hope it does not get worse than that, otherwise I am sure we'd be breaking some laws of topology.

    9. Re:Actual Link to the zip by uuddlrlrab · · Score: 1

      I guess it's a question of how much a given archive compression format can shrink an encapsulated document like a PDF. I'm not an expert, so I'll let someone else do the math. In any case, this is all kind of off-topic from the main point about the TSA's epic fail in actually omitting the data, and instead just, in effect, holding up a sign saying, "Censored - please don't look at what is behind this."

      --
      Odi profanum vulgus et arceo
    10. Re:Actual Link to the zip by JunkmanUK · · Score: 1

      At least embedding in a word document can decease the file size a little...! When you have clients sending 30Mb emails containing high resolution scans of their utility bill anything is welcome. Why on earth do they insist on scanning an electricity bill at 1200dpi or sometimes more??!

    11. Re:Actual Link to the zip by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Given sufficient control over your web server or a reasonably flexible CMS there's no need to zip it to achieve that:

      Putting "Content-Disposition: inline" in the HTTP header advises the browser to display the file whereas "Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=whatever.pdf" suggests presenting the user a download option with the given file name.

    12. Re:Actual Link to the zip by Xest · · Score: 1

      Because it's the default and they don't realise a need to figure out how to change it.

    13. Re:Actual Link to the zip by EMN13 · · Score: 2, Informative

      You do realize that despite the internals, a zipped pdf may be quite a bit smaller than the raw pdf?

      Perhaps you'd prefer a smarter more time intensive approach (tweaking the pdf itself), but there's no question that if you're just out to reduce size in a simple easy-to-understand and perform manner, this is a perfectly reasonable action.

    14. Re:Actual Link to the zip by jez9999 · · Score: 1

      Anyone have a link to the actual redacted original? The TSA appear to have taken it down now and you need it to see what was redacted.

    15. Re:Actual Link to the zip by Bazzargh · · Score: 2, Funny

      Ok how about... a uuencoded[1], corrupt[2], powerpoint attachment inside an email that got pasted (as the raw text of an email) into a word doc, reformatted, and then mailed to me (as a base64'd attachment).

      Got sent that ~12 years ago by a PHB who wanted help getting the powerpoint out of his mail. It wasn't that hard - I wrote a little uudecoder in perl that started dumping when it saw the magic bytes for OLE...that format has a LUT for 512-byte blocks of the doc at the start, if you have trailing junk its just ignored. I mailed this back to him, and hey presto, it worked. He then asked me how I did it. I wasnt about to explain this to someone who can't use the 'forward' button in their mailer so I just stripped the comments and spaces out of the perl and sent that back.

      -Baz

      [1] the microsoft flavour. this was back in the day when there were multiple uuencode alphabets.
      [2] extra bytes at start and end.

    16. Re:Actual Link to the zip by Stradenko · · Score: 1

      I assume the bold text indicates what was redacted.

    17. Re:Actual Link to the zip by Stradenko · · Score: 1

      Either that, or the big red boxes around text...

    18. Re:Actual Link to the zip by Inda · · Score: 4, Informative

      If zipping a PDF makes it smaller, you've created the PDF wrong.

      --
      This post contains benzene, nitrosamines, formaldehyde and hydrogen cyanide.
    19. Re:Actual Link to the zip by C0vardeAn0nim0 · · Score: 1

      could be worse. she could have ziped the doc that contains the jpg...

      --
      What ? Me, worry ?
    20. Re:Actual Link to the zip by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      dude, you zipped a pdf....
      thats almost as bad as when my mom puts a jpg in a doc to email it.

      I zip everything that goes into a browser for download: it's the only format that I can be fairly sure will be handled the same way across browsers. Trade-offs...

    21. Re:Actual Link to the zip by FlyingBishop · · Score: 1

      Why? Just about every OS you just open the zip archive, then open the pdf. It's not as seamless as in-browser gzipped pdf, but it's not actually any slower either.

    22. Re:Actual Link to the zip by Bourdain · · Score: 1

      was it the prisoners on an island with a boat one? that's the only game I've ever seen like that

    23. Re:Actual Link to the zip by dkleinsc · · Score: 5, Funny

      Which, as the summary explains, is absolutely true.

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
    24. Re:Actual Link to the zip by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You do realize that the PDF format includes data compression, therefore making ZIP irrelevant, right?

      Actually, compressing already compressed data often makes it larger, no smaller.

    25. Re:Actual Link to the zip by afidel · · Score: 2, Funny

      You obviously don't use Acrobat reader!

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    26. Re:Actual Link to the zip by Le+Marteau · · Score: 3, Informative

      You do realize that the linked zip was 1,776 KB, and contained a PDF which, when unzipped, was 2,198 KB, right?

      --
      Mod down people who tell people how to mod in their sigs
    27. Re:Actual Link to the zip by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sure do. And like someone else said, if that happens you probably created the PDF wrong (or used poor tools to create it. Adobe's tools are actually some of the worst)

    28. Re:Actual Link to the zip by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I hope it does not get worse than that,

      Following their "we make hammers so everything looks like a nail" philosophy, I'm sure VMWare's working on developing a standard of using entire virtual machine images as the standard for sharing rich content online.

    29. Re:Actual Link to the zip by sublimemm · · Score: 1

      Or when a customer takes a 'screen shot' by taking a picture of the screen

    30. Re:Actual Link to the zip by OhHellWithIt · · Score: 1

      It looks to me like the hosting person saved 400KB, or about one-fifth the size. That's worth it, IMHO.

      --
      "Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past." -- George Orwell
    31. Re:Actual Link to the zip by CecilPL · · Score: 2, Informative

      Use Foxit Reader instead. It's singlehandedly destroyed my fear of pdfs.

    32. Re:Actual Link to the zip by FlyingBishop · · Score: 1

      Personally, I prefer Evince or Sumatra or another similarly lightweight external viewer.

    33. Re:Actual Link to the zip by Blakey+Rat · · Score: 1

      Sure it was a Flash game?

      I've seen pixel-perfect clones of Pac-Man, complete with sound effects, written in VBA in Excel itself.

    34. Re:Actual Link to the zip by flappinbooger · · Score: 1

      --snip-- It wasn't that hard - --snip--

      That's easy for you to say.

      --
      Flappinbooger isn't my real name
    35. Re:Actual Link to the zip by CAIMLAS · · Score: 1

      My wife says: "Yeah, I'd probably shoot that person." I have to concur.

      --
      ~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
    36. Re:Actual Link to the zip by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      dude, you zipped a pdf....

      that's how the TSA 'encrypted' it

    37. Re:Actual Link to the zip by Thinboy00 · · Score: 1

      And if you happen to have the wrong version of Word, opening the zip (in Word) without extracting it will corrupt the file (you don't even have to save)!

      --
      $ make available
    38. Re:Actual Link to the zip by Hertzyscowicz · · Score: 1

      Except that now most of the people downloading it will hopefully save the file on their computer, so they won't be coming back tomorrow to download the 1.8 megabytes again if they decide to have another look at the doc.

    39. Re:Actual Link to the zip by commodore64_love · · Score: 2, Informative

      Well that 422 kilobytes saved me 3 minutes of download time on my 28k modem

      Okay yes it's ridiculous to zip it.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    40. Re:Actual Link to the zip by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      I hope that's sarcasm. 400KB only ~4 seconds saved on my 750k DSL

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    41. Re:Actual Link to the zip by mattack2 · · Score: 1

      Over 19% decrease in size.. seems pretty reasonable to me. Decreases load on the server, etc. Someone else did the work of compressing it, and it takes you at most one more step (double-click on the zip to unzip it, or unzip it at the CLI).

    42. Re:Actual Link to the zip by nsayer · · Score: 1

      And you try telling that to the young people of today, and they won't believe you!

      (mods: it's the punch line to the 4 Yorkshiremen's sketch. Go look it up)

    43. Re:Actual Link to the zip by Bigjeff5 · · Score: 1

      Used an app that strips out all the crap from the adobe reader, so that it just does what it is supposed to do: read pdfs.

      This happens to make it 10x faster in the process, which is nice.

      I don't remember the name of the app off the top of my head though. :/

      --
      Security is mostly a superstition... Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. - Helen Keller
    44. Re:Actual Link to the zip by Bigjeff5 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Apparently you don't host a website, because serving files is extremely expensive - 400kb over thousands of downloads works out to quite a bit of money saved.

      --
      Security is mostly a superstition... Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. - Helen Keller
    45. Re:Actual Link to the zip by BoothbyTCD · · Score: 1

      I second a recommendation of Sumatra.

      --
      snig
    46. Re:Actual Link to the zip by clone53421 · · Score: 1

      The zip is about 20% smaller than the PDF itself. However, as afidel said, the server can just be configured to support compressing files on-the-fly, so zipping the PDF won’t gain anything in terms of actual bandwidth used.

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
    47. Re:Actual Link to the zip by Mr.+DOS · · Score: 2, Informative

      Over hundreds of requests, that 422KB less saves them possibly hundreds of megabytes of bandwidth.

            --- Mr. DOS

  2. Select All by Reason58 · · Score: 2, Funny

    ctrl-a is a bitch, huh?

    1. Re:Select All by MichaelSmith · · Score: 4, Funny

      Whats the penalty for subverting a copy prevention measure?

    2. Re:Select All by OrangeTide · · Score: 1

      Death penalty in some cases, but it would require a strong case proving treason.

      --
      “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
    3. Re:Select All by kjshark · · Score: 0

      Whats the penalty for subverting a copy prevention measure?
      Getting beaten by your clone

      --
      The difference between truth and fiction is that fiction has to be plausible.
    4. Re:Select All by Idiomatick · · Score: 1

      Hey! Microsoft made the copy-prevention circumvention tools! Sue them.

    5. Re:Select All by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      >>>ctrl-a is a bitch, huh?

      I'm using a Mac you insensitive clod!

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    6. Re:Select All by Meski · · Score: 1

      This is a slightly higher tech version of scraping liquid paper off of a piece of paper.

  3. The real link to the cryptome file by JesseL · · Score: 3, Informative
    --
    "Prefiero morir de pie que vivir siempre arrodillado!"
    1. Re:The real link to the cryptome file by JesseL · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Damn. The line between informative and redundant is measured in seconds.

      --
      "Prefiero morir de pie que vivir siempre arrodillado!"
    2. Re:The real link to the cryptome file by Devout_IPUite · · Score: 1

      Silly people, put it as a background if you don't want people to read it! (apparently HTML table tags and slashdot aren't friends though. :-(

    3. Re:The real link to the cryptome file by ihuntrocks · · Score: 1

      Not at all regarding the article or the discussion, but I just have to say: Nice Emiliano Zapata quote in your sig.

      --
      Randimal: AT-CG-CG-AT-CG-AT-AT-CG-CG-AT-AT-CG-AT-CG-CG-AT-CG-AT-AT-CG-AT-CG-CG-AT-AT-CG-CG-AT-CG-AT-AT-CG
    4. Re:The real link to the cryptome file by Khyber · · Score: 0, Redundant

      No, the line is measured in moderator brain cells.

      I've had the first post on a story and had it modded redundant.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    5. Re:The real link to the cryptome file by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sometimes first posts are redundant.

    6. Re:The real link to the cryptome file by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I saw that, and wanted to moderate the *moderation* as funny.

    7. Re:The real link to the cryptome file by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sometimes, first posts are redundant.

  4. Well, at least the rest don't do this. by JoshuaZ · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I know people who work in the US government. As I understand it, when releasing material that is partially blacked out, in most departments the procedure is to simply black it out on a hard copy and then photocopy the hard copy or scan it if it is to go online. This removes any chance of clever ways of getting the data if there's something about the file format or such that is strange. I don't see why the TSA wouldn't do the same thing. Moreover, isn't the fact that you can do this with PDFs well known? I've even seen it used as a way of covering up spoilers. What were they thinking?

    1. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Reason58 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I don't see why the TSA wouldn't do the same thing.

      For the same reason they make you take your shoes off? For the same reason they have so many ineffective security policies that busy airports often have security checkpoint lines containing more people than a plane, which makes for extremely easy bombing targets (no security!)? Clueless, inept, and there to absorb money and power.

    2. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Devout_IPUite · · Score: 1

      I doubt they were thinking...

    3. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by StuartHankins · · Score: 1

      There is a built-in redaction feature in Acrobat 9 Pro. It saves you the trouble of photocopying the original (maintaining fonts / text / graphics etc in their full quality). We looked into redacting info on PDF's and I was pleasantly surprised to find Adobe had added the feature. Options include choosing the redaction text.

    4. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

      The reason security checkpoint lines and their larger crowd of people isn't as much of a threat as a plane, is because it takes a much smaller bomb to kill all the people on the plane. The plane is what kills people, not the bomb that cripples the planes ability to transport hundreds of people safely at an altitude of miles and high speed. (just read that on Shneier's page)

    5. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by IndustrialComplex · · Score: 2, Interesting

      As I understand it, when releasing material that is partially blacked out, in most departments the procedure is to simply black it out on a hard copy and then photocopy the hard copy or scan it if it is to go online.

      The reason that we often see these types of failed redaction is that they attempt to black out the text before it is printed, then you can scan it. If you don't black out the text prior to printing it is possible that the scanner picks up on subtle hints as to what the text might have been.

      Take a black marker and go over a printed page, you can probably tell a bit what was printed there. That may be preserved through the scanner.

      The best way to protected text in this manner is either to remove the text completely, or black it out prior to printing. I've never cared for the sloppy style of blacked out text, as it causes problems (not exhaustive):

      1. Spacing can give clues
      2. The censor might be overzealous because of the spacing thus withholding more information than necessary
      3. They forget that black over text does not remove the text in electronic copies.

      --
      Out of modpoints but really liked a post? 1BDkF6TtmmeZ3yqXbz9yhdYVqRYnwFoXDj
    6. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by QuantumG · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

      --
      How we know is more important than what we know.
    7. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by JWSmythe · · Score: 5, Insightful

          It's not clueless and inept. It's the illusion of security. Take off your shoes. Put your liquids in a clear bag. Stand here while we do a cursory search of your carry on luggage. It's to make the general population *FEEL* secure, not to actually secure them. Have you looked in their trash bin of confiscated items? It's all stuff that wouldn't sell at a yard sale. Their "explosive" detectors are a joke. And backscatter xrays? I went through one. Because of the way my shirt was sewn, it looked like I was wearing suspenders. 15 minutes to explain that it was just a shirt. How about recent tests where only 25% of the tests done passing obvious dangerous items (bombs, knives, guns, etc) through security were caught?

          They still allow objects with more serious potential through. A laptop as a blunt force instrument? The potential energy stored in a laptop battery? The RF radiation created by handheld electronics? The fact that a highschool football player could overpower the flight crew and air marshals? They worry about that tube of toothpaste. What if 100 of the tickets for a flight were booked by terrorists? Good luck for the rest of the passengers to overpower them.

          But, the people demanded higher security, so they get the illusion of higher security.

          Now, take off your shoes, and play along with the security theater.
       

      --
      Serious? Seriousness is well above my pay grade.
    8. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Jarjarthejedi · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Uhh...the people in a checkpoint line are far more densely packed than people on a plane, so ignoring that factor in your analysis is a bit of a mistake. Not to mention that, as the GP said, there's no security (or at least none that would stop a luggage bomb) before you reach the checkpoint, so size isn't a huge issue.

      But ignoring all of that the goal of terrorism is to cause terror, and where do people feel safer, a plane, or the security line before a plane?

      --
      There are two kinds of fool One says 'This is old therefore good' Another says 'This is new therefore better'- Dean Ing
    9. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by JoshuaZ · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Security theater isn't inherently bad. People get scared very easily. We could say "sure, we've added in some minor stop gaps but the main result is that we hope if you get hijacked you'll do your patriotic duty to stop the hijackers or barring that bringing the plane down. And bombings? We aren't very concerned about them. Such events have been very rare for a long time." People wouldn't respond rationally to that. So instead we add steps that are ostentatious and feel like security. The result is people behave more reasonably and use airplanes they wouldn't otherwise do so. This is a cynical but strong argument for security theater.

    10. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Jeremi · · Score: 2, Insightful

      For the same reason they have so many ineffective security policies that busy airports often have security checkpoint lines containing more people than a plane, which makes for extremely easy bombing targets (no security!)?

      There are lots of places where many people gather together. The critical difference is that those places don't also contain several thousand gallons of jet fuel, and you you can't fly them into a skyscraper.

      --


      I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
    11. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by TapeCutter · · Score: 2

      "the people in a checkpoint line are far more densely packed than people on a plane" - You're either joking or travelling first class but I agree the security line is a sitting duck.

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
    12. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by furball · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Obviously the solution is a security line for the security line. That way the security line can't be bombed. Duh.

    13. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just like how some people ask why they don't make planes out of the same material black boxes are made out of...

      Why don't we just make the security lines out of the same material black boxes are made out of? Or, better yet, why not make people bomb-proof? That way, a lot of these security issues would become moot.

    14. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by JWSmythe · · Score: 5, Insightful

          No, your views aren't cynical. They're realistic. Unfortunately, we (the gov't with our tax dollars) are spending so much to enhance the illusion, that could be better spent elsewhere. But, the TSA isn't going away any time soon, and "security" measures will continue, even though they are entertaining at best.

          I had a nice talk with a TSA agent once. I had time to waste, and he was going through the drill. It was obvious that he understood his job was just to maintain the illusion. We both understood that if air travel is the path of most resistance, a real terrorist would choose the path of least resistance. There are so many options, and even in a total police state those methods wouldn't be fool proof. Consider the underground movements during WWII in Europe. Even in occupied cities with Axis troops on every corner, the resistance was able to not only subvert their security by moving people in and out, but they were able to stage resistance attacks (as we'd now know as terrorist attacks). But as it goes, one man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist.

      --
      Serious? Seriousness is well above my pay grade.
    15. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by LordLimecat · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Most people at airports dont seem afraid, or reassured, they tend to simply be irritated at what the average citizen can recognize as silly and ineffective.

      I dont know what part of the population the TSA hopes to fool, but its not the majority.

    16. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by __aasqbs9791 · · Score: 1

      Here, I can wash that out of your mind with this (don't blame me for ruining your sanity though.) The really scary thing is I found this as an actual book that someone paid money to print, in a book store. It reminds me of the joke from Lewis Black about what causes aneurysms.

    17. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Mostly power. The money is a bonus.

      You will be controlled.

      Know your overlords!

    18. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Duradin · · Score: 2, Funny

      1. Don't open cockpit door.
      2. Light fasten seatbelt sign.
      3. ????? (do a barrel roll, steep climb/dive/banking or parabolic arcs)
      4. Don't fly into skyscraper, do collect badly injured terr'ists.
      5. Profit.

    19. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by terjeber · · Score: 1

      Even though I don't agree with the stupid security "measurements" taken, this is just absurd and not particularly well thought through.

      It does take a significant sized bomb to kill, say 200, people in a security line. Even if they are densely packed at the time. It takes a very, very small bomb to kill the same amount of people once they are on the plane. Even if they are far less densely packed. The bomb it self may only kill one, or even zero people. The plane hitting the ground after dropping 10K feet on the other hand...

    20. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by JimboG · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Forget the laptop battery... On most planes there is a canister of chemicals stored above every seat that when mixed produces oxygen. Combine that with some duty-free Bacardi 151 (You know, the one with the flame retardant top) and the cigarette lighter you bought just before the flight and you could make you're own very effective little bomb right on the plane itself! All these so called security measures are a joke, when things like spirits and cigarette lighters are still allowed on flights. TSA... I'm not even going to start thinking about those morons. It just gets me all angry.

    21. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by MartinSchou · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Have you looked in their trash bin of confiscated items?

      This bit actually says it all.

      1) You're not allowed to bring liquids above a certain quantity for fears it might be part of an explosive device
      2) Throw said components into an open trash can
      3) Repeat 1 and 2 until you hit critical mass
      4) Throw an igniter into the trash can
      5) Big boom

      When's the last time you saw the police or military treat a package like that, when they suspect it might be an explosive? It never happens. They take very serious steps to prevent injuries, going as far as blowing up small bags of bikinis.

      But at the airport, where you have hundreds of people standing in line, you're supposed to just toss it all into an open container next to the line. Security indeed.

    22. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Uhh...the people in a checkpoint line are far more densely packed than people on a plane...

      I see you're too good for economy...

    23. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by mysidia · · Score: 1, Troll

      Frankly, I wish attention-whores wouldn't undo the blackout for them and post online, they're doing security work for the TSA, in helping them to better hide/censor pieces of documents from the public that are generally not worth censoring.

      Whatever was struck out was done so for a reason, and this recovery of censored text is very poor form (read: unethical, possibly illegal) behavior.

      The blacking out may be generally not bulletproof, however, it's sufficient for the casual viewer.

      Yeah. If they didn't post the un-blacked out version, some people still see it. Expert computer users who are unlikely to be abusing whatever info might be there.

      But apparently not the case, as at least one person who can see through their artificial text blackout -- was so abusive as to post it to the public; a highly abusive act.

      When TSA sees this, it means they won't make the same mistake again, which ultimtely results in less useful information released to the public.

      You think blacking it out with a marker and then photocopying it hides the original text from detailed forensic document analysis techniques?

      Maybe... it depends on how dark the marker is, and how similar the shade of the pen ink is to the marker ink.

      Branches such as the TSA aren't privvy to truly classified info.

      Surely the military, FBI, or NSA, would never manage a mistake like this.

    24. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by dbIII · · Score: 1

      I don't see why the TSA wouldn't do the same thing

      The same reason they punished an Airline and a plane full of people for Cat Stevens being a Muslim. They are not under adult supervision.

    25. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Sloppy · · Score: 1

      This removes any chance of clever ways of getting the data if there's something about the file format or such that is strange.

      Put your feet into the shoes of the security experts who are keeping you safe, and then this question will hit you: "uhh.. what's a file format? Didn't I use the format where the secrets are redacted?"

      --
      As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
    26. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by afidel · · Score: 1

      When the security lines get densely packed it's like an airplane with no aisle, quite a bit more dense.

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    27. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by HockeyPuck · · Score: 1

      Have you looked in their trash bin of confiscated items?

      I always wondered why all the 'suspect items' or 'potentially explosive liquids' are all dumped into the exact same garbage can...

    28. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by DMUTPeregrine · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Also, if they bomb the checkpoints what is the response going to be? More checkpoints further out? An infinite array of security checkpoints?

      --
      Not a sentence!
    29. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Yetihehe · · Score: 1

      50kg of any good explosive (heck, even anfo) could do much damage. I could take this much into airport easily all by myself. Now take just four people standing with big luggages in four points of line, blast all bags at once and you have nice explosion.

      --
      Extreme Programming - Redundant Array of Inexpensive Developers
    30. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Jbcarpen · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'd like to point out that a Terrorist (in general) deliberately targets civilians. If someone is claiming to be a Freedom Fighter they had better be taking steps to ensure that their targets are military in nature. If they target civilians out of choice, then they lose the right to claim freedom fighter status (doesn't stop them from claiming it anyway, but they're just deluding themselves.)

      --
      GENERATION 667: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation
    31. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Xaositecte · · Score: 4, Funny

      Yo dawg, I heard you like security, so I put some lines in your lines so you can wait while you wait.

    32. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Uberbah · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I'd like to point out that a Terrorist (in general) deliberately targets civilians.

      If they aren't targeting civilians, they aren't terrorists. Marine barracks bombing in Lebanon? Not terrorism. Flying a plane into the Pentagon? Not terrorism (though it was for the folks on the plane). Bombing the U.S.S. Cole? Not terrorism. Attacks on military installations and personnel is not terrorism, it's an attack on the military.

    33. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Khyber · · Score: 1

      On holidays any main lobby of a terminal will have more people than an airplane - and that's right at the front doors with no security. One bomb and you've just wiped out an easy thousand. Powerful enough to make infrastructure collapse, maybe get up to five thousand on a busy day with one blast.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    34. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Khyber · · Score: 1

      "It does take a significant sized bomb to kill, say 200, people in a security line."

      No, it does not. A half-pound black powder bomb with steel BBs would be well more than enough. That's about the size of a tennis ball.

      Imagine a piece of plastique wrapped with shrapnel. Smaller bomb, same power, could use the saved space to add more shrapnel and kill way more people!

      I'm assuming you've only played with fireworks.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    35. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Uberbah · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Even though I don't agree with the stupid security "measurements" taken, this is just absurd and not particularly well thought through.

      You shouldn't throw stones....

      It takes a very, very small bomb to kill the same amount of people once they are on the plane.

      Hardly. Planes are designed to withstand heavy weather and have redundant systems. Carrying a large bomb into a long security line is trivial. Carrying a bomb onto a plane large enough to hit the fuel tanks, the cockpit or severely damage one of the wings is NOT trivial.

    36. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Hurricane78 · · Score: 1

      I don’t wear any shoes, you insensitive clod!

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
    37. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by The+Wooden+Badger · · Score: 4, Funny

      ...Oxygen gets you high. In a catastrophic emergency, you're taking giant panicked breaths. Suddenly you become euphoric, docile. You accept your fate. It's all right here. Emergency water landing - 600 miles an hour. Blank faces, calm as Hindu cows.

      --
      Heroscape, it's like legos combined with anachronistic wargames.
    38. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Vegeta99 · · Score: 1

      I once was flipping through my friend's Criminal Justice book, and the chapter on vehicular law began:

      Cars and other vehicles are inherently different from homes and other buildings because they can move.

      First, it was Denial. Then it was Anger, "But I lived in my car!!". Then, Bargaining. "Sir, I swear, I didn't see that car in my house's way." Then Depression, "Do we really need to make this clear?" and now, with this very thread, Acceptance.

    39. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by janek78 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And yet, their budged is several times more than the FDA. Given how many people drugs (and their improper use) kill every year, you'd think that if the US government really wanted to save lives....

    40. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by s1lverl0rd · · Score: 3, Funny

      It's turtles all the way down!

    41. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Dr+Damage+I · · Score: 4, Informative

      It's worse than that. One trick that the IRA used to use (not sure if it originated with them or not) is to have sequenced bombings: Determine where people fleeing the first bomb will go then set off a second bomb (or bombs) at the logical escape routes. People fleeing danger tend to get densely packed at choke points.

      --
      "Cursed is he who rises early in the morning..." Isiah 5:11
    42. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by jimicus · · Score: 2, Interesting

      If I was a security guard and I thought you were wearing suspenders under a shirt, I'd be interested in speaking to you further as well.

    43. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Lundse · · Score: 1

      Security theater isn't inherently bad. People get scared very easily. We could say "sure, we've added in some minor stop gaps but the main result is that we hope if you get hijacked you'll do your patriotic duty to stop the hijackers or barring that bringing the plane down. And bombings? We aren't very concerned about them. Such events have been very rare for a long time." People wouldn't respond rationally to that.

      And if we keep playing security theater (new pseudonym for Fox News?) for them, they will be even less likely to respond rationally. You cannot force people in a democracy or crowd to behave much smarter than they would themselves - our only hope is to encourage critical thinking in every citizen. So yes, I'd say security theatre is inherently bad - it talks down to people, degrades their ability to make their own decisions and spins an illusion. While playing into the terrorists' hands.
      I say you are either ready to do your duty as a human being and stop the hijackers, or you shouldn't fly (toddlers and senior citizens excluded).

      --
      IAIFARSIJDPOOTV - I Am In Fact A Reality Star; I Just Don't Play One On TV
    44. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by ToasterMonkey · · Score: 1

      When the security lines get densely packed it's like an airplane with no aisle, quite a bit more dense.

      Yah, and my loveseat is more densely packed than either of those. Don't be naive, 'densely packed' is an oversimplification of 'optimal b_mb target'.

    45. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Rubinstien · · Score: 1

      I have to agree. I went to Germany a couple of years ago on a business trip. I don't eat lunch, so arrived outside the airport gate area well ahead of my coworkers who had spread out to buy lunch at various shops. I do not fly much, so had not been through the new security stuff since 9/11 before, and found things to be set up significantly differently than I had expected. It did not help that the airport was being remodeled so they had areas just roped off and the "sterile" area was out of sight behind some scaffolding covered in plastic sheets and things. I decided to hang out and wait for my coworkers before proceeding to the checkpoint, so kind of loitered around in the hallway, looking at some displays and things. They were significantly later than we had agreed as our meeting time, so I spent something like 20 minutes doing this, and kept leaning against a post and looking back along the hallway for them. It was getting pretty close to boarding time, and eventually I saw them hurrying along the hall a way back, so decided to go ahead and get in line. Evidently, my behavior to this point was "suspicious" enough to have caught somebody's attention, and I was immediately culled out of the line by some TSA guy in dark glasses that was way too full of himself. He played 21 questions with me, acting like he was pissed off at me the entire time and just generally being as much of a rude ass as he could make of himself. Finally, he asked for permission to search my baggage (there's only one right answer). He took my laptop out of its bag, signaled to two other TSA dudes to come over and detain me while he left, and was gone for about 15 minutes with the laptop. He returned eventually and gave it back to me, leaving me to stuff all of my things back into the bags myself, and giving me just barely enough time to get through to the "sterile" area before the plane began boarding. I am fortunate that there was nothing untoward on the laptop, which was a loaner from work since I had a desktop machine at the time and not a company-issued laptop. This machine was the retired offal of one of the sales/marketing guys, so it could have had anything on it. He was gone long enough, I always wondered if he imaged the machine. At any rate, to call me irritated is an understatement. I was certainly not impressed. While he had asked to see my identification in my wallet, as well as my passport, he never took anything out of the wallet. Take an old credit card some time and spend a few minutes with a good quality oil stone. You can make something just as sharp as any box cutter and much easier to hide. Do it along the bottom edge and you can keep it in your wallet along with your normal cards.

    46. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So is it your opinion that allied forces deliberately targeting civilians in the second world war (UK: Dresden - 30K dead, US: Tokyo, 50K dead) were acts of terrorism?

    47. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The USA deliberately targetted water treatment facilities in Irag to introduce disease and make the people rise up against Saddam Hussein. Does that count as terrorism? If not, why not?

    48. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by ArsenneLupin · · Score: 1

      The reason security checkpoint lines and their larger crowd of people isn't as much of a threat as a plane, is because it takes a much smaller bomb to kill all the people on the plane. The plane is what kills people, not the bomb that cripples the planes ability to transport hundreds of people safely at an altitude of miles and high speed. (just read that on Shneier's page)

      That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

      Sorry, you lost me there. Why do you think this is so stupid? It seems perfectly sensible to me... Yes, terrorists do look for this "amplification" effect. Why build a stronger weapon, when you can just use the target's own infrastructure as an "amplifier"?

      The 911 terrorists would never have been able to kill 2000 people with a box cutter if these people were just standing around in a field. But pack the 2000 people into a building, and use the box cutter to hijack a plane to crash that into the building, and suddenly it becomes feasible.

    49. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Dr.+Hellno · · Score: 1

      I don't think it's a good idea to try and make people feel safer than they are. We're probably in even more danger when we don't realize that we're in danger.

    50. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by rennerik · · Score: 1

      A laptop as a blunt force instrument? The potential energy stored in a laptop battery? The RF radiation created by handheld electronics? The fact that a highschool football player could overpower the flight crew and air marshals? They worry about that tube of toothpaste.

      http://xkcd.com/651/

    51. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      IIRC it is still possible to guess blacked out words. using fonts that are not with fixed width and especially when using block formatting of the paragraphs some are able to guess the missing words by calculating the probability of different dictionary words and the width of the spaces between the visible words. This was mentioned some years ago during a discussion of censorship of official documents - cant really remember when.

    52. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Aceticon · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It's even more complicated than that:
      - It's a well known military adage that you attack your enemy where it is weakest, not strongest.

      A bunch of (relatively) poorly armed civilians attacking well armed, well prepared military targets is at best a form of ritual suicide.

      I would change the definition of terrorist to be somebody that purposefully attacks civilian targets and/or willingly accepts civilian casualties with the objective of terrorizing the civilians into compliance.

      Note that this definition does include state actors - states often act as terrorists.

      Even under this definition, you can still say that some in the Resistance during WW2 were terrorists: the executions of "collaborators" were done to induce compliance in others by terror.

    53. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by chrb · · Score: 4, Informative

      the goal of terrorism is to cause terror

      The goal of terrorism is to effect political and social change. The terror is just a means to an end.

    54. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by vegiVamp · · Score: 1

      Security checkpoints all the way down, of course.

      --
      What a depressingly stupid machine.
    55. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by meringuoid · · Score: 4, Insightful
      If they target civilians out of choice, then they lose the right to claim freedom fighter status

      In such a campaign, who's a civilian? Are informers considered civilians, or can the Resistance shoot them? Are collaborators considered civilians, or can the Resistance intimidate or terrorise them to discourage working with the enemy?

      I'm pretty sure the French Resistance did both. So did the IRA.

      --
      Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
    56. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Bromskloss · · Score: 1

      3. ????? (do a barrel roll, steep climb/dive/banking or parabolic arcs)

      Wohoo! I wish my flights included some of those.

      5. Profit.

      ...and this.

      --
      Swedish plasma phys. PhD student; MSc EE; knows maths, programming, electronics; finance interest; seeks opportunities
    57. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Richard_at_work · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Aircraft are designed for stresses in particular ways - apply stresses in other ways and its easy to bring down the plane.

      You don't have to hit the cockpit, fuel tanks or wings - you simply have to disrupt the fuselage structure itself, which is actually fairly trivial to do. Once the fuselage structure has lost integrity, there is no aircraft.

    58. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by budfields · · Score: 1

      You make a few good points, but your last point is in error. It does not matter if a football player, or 100 terrorists could overpower the flight attendants. This is because all US commercial flights now have locked cockpits and strict rules against opening the cockpit under any circumstances. Which means the plane can't be hijacked or used as a weapon. Which means such an attack is basically useless; the maximum damage that could be done (and this is doubtful) is to down the plane in a random location. As an aside, it's also obvious that getting 100 terrorists on a plane is laughably unlikely. It's also very unlikely to even be attempted, for at least three reasons that any bright person can figure out.

    59. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by rts008 · · Score: 1

      Now I am sorry I used my mod points before I went to work, came home, and read your comment.

      One thing bothers me though...I can't decide if I would have used +1 funny, or +1 insightful...Hhmmmm.

      Blank faces, calm as Hindu cows.

      Priceless!

      --
      Down With Slashdot BETA!!! I've been around the corner and seen the oliphant; you can only abuse me from your perspecti
    60. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd like to point out that a Terrorist (in general) deliberately targets civilians.

      Regular armed forces also do that. We usually think it is an anomaly, but it is actually a mainstream, common, strategy. No armed conflict has ever been won without deliberately targeting civilians (until they succumb). In fact, that was true before the first war and first regular armed forces came to be. Think: Why would any country accept defeat and agree to capitulate if there wasn't an inherent threat of reprisals over its civilian population and infrastructure if it continues to defy their enemy? War stops when people of at least one side had enough of it and then their representatives articulate that. Even a despotic ruler can't continue to war against the will of one's own subjects. On a side note, that is main reason why robotic warfare won't bring less suffering to humanity: war has to have ultimate price to be meaningful to its purpose; If there are no human soldiers to pay that price in the field, then their civilians will pay it at home.

      In conclusion, (1) terrorism is just one of the faces of war. If you are targeted by terrorists, it means you are a side in a war. If it surprises you, then you've been lied to: you've been told that you are not at war and that everything was normal. (2) For quite some time emphasis of defense doctrines was on protecting the troops, while civilians were considered well protected by ... enemies' ethics xD! It is time to wake up to eternal reality: civilians are most vulnerable and most critical war asset, and also a prime target of any serious opponent. Defense strategy, defense budget and even everyday life of a warring nation should reflect that fact. As long as your nation is willing to go to war or do things that may provoke others to war against you, some sort of "duck and cover" exercise ("spot a terrorist/saboteur/spy", "don't speak with strangers") and situation awareness must be a part of your everyday lives. I know this kind of mentality is hard for freedom-loving nations, as it implicitly creates command hierarchy and puts governments in charge of everything, but that is part of the price of war.

    61. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by chrb · · Score: 1

      I'd like to point out that a Terrorist (in general) deliberately targets civilians.

      Unless the targeting in question is carried out by the government of a nation state, in which case it usually gets called "war" or "policing". The word "terrorism" originates from the French government which used a reign of terror to rule the country and eliminate enemies of the state. In this sense, applying the "terrorism" label to a government was apt, but it has fallen out of favour since then.

    62. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by registrar · · Score: 2, Informative

      there's no security (or at least none that would stop a luggage bomb) before you reach the checkpoint

      There is if you travel through a country with serious security issues, like India or Israel.

    63. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Trepidity · · Score: 1

      There's a little bit of that already, in the form of rerouting traffic and instituting parking/stopping restrictions to try to mitigate the risk of a car bomb.

    64. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Rogerborg · · Score: 0, Troll

      Indeed. And these target-rich queues are caused by security theatre. When some raghead mongtard finally blows himself up in such queue, I'm sure it'll become obvious in hindsight.

      --
      If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
    65. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      I don't see why the TSA wouldn't do the same thing.

      Q: What do you call the guy who graduates in last place from the police academy?
      A: A cop.

      Q: What do you call the guy ranked after him?
      A: A TSA agent.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    66. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, it does not. A half-pound black powder bomb with steel BBs would be well more than enough. That's about the size of a tennis ball.

      The destruction would be horrible but that would not kill even nearly 200 people. I think you are underestimating human resilience. Remember that the first twenty are going to catch all the shrapnel.

      I've never heard of a suicide bomber that would have succeeded in killing hundreds of people without using a car, plane or a building as a weapon, with just a single bomb. Do you have any examples to support your theory?

      The little that I remember from explosion math also disagrees with what you say: killing 200 people in an explosion requires a very large amount of explosives (killing a thousand would require an insane amount), thinking that a tennis ball size device could do it makes me think you are the one with "fireworks" experience. I wasn't an explosives guy in the service but in my short explosives training I was told to expect a tin can sized makeshift booby trap to immobilize a group by badly wounding or killing a few guys -- the point was that we shouldn't expect the group to be defenseless afterwards, just unable to move fast.

    67. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by QuantumG · · Score: 4, Insightful

      There's always one. "Hey everyone, I'm so stupid that I don't even understand how to keep my stupidity a secret."

      Ok, I'll try to explain this really simply to you.

      1. There's more people in line at the checkpoints than there is on a single plane because there's more than one plane at the airport and the checkpoints take so god damn long.
      2. The mythical* terrorists can make those lines even longer just by sending people in to fool around at the checkpoint.
      3. People are made of squishy stuff, and are therefore easy to explode.
      4. Planes are made of metal which is much stronger than people, so they are harder to explode. And before you mention fuel, the fuel is inside the metal.
      5. There's no checkpoints to get to the checkpoints, so it's easier to attack the big mass of people before the checkpoint than it is to attack the small masses of people after the checkpoint.

      * All of this is so damn obvious that the only sensible conclusion is that there are no terrorists trying to blow up airports in the US. Further evidence of this is that, in countries that actually have suicide bombings, attacking checkpoints is exactly the strategy they use and, as such, checkpoints are designed to keep people moving through them as fast as possible.

      --
      How we know is more important than what we know.
    68. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Seeing that rubber glove come out makes me feel real secure. Personally I think they should take you out to dinner first and send flowers the next day.

    69. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by ei4anb · · Score: 2, Informative

      During the "troubles" in Northern Ireland the Irish airport police had checkpoints at the airport doors where they used explosives sniffers to check luggage. They were efficient and I never saw a queue more than a minute or two long. It was enough deterrent and there never was any attack in an airport or on a 'plane.

    70. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by chrb · · Score: 2, Interesting

      And flying a plane into the WTC? Osama viewed himself and his group as being at war with the U.S. They had bombed the U.S.S. Cole, the U.S. had attacked their training camps with cruise missiles. The question is whether attacking enemy civilians during a time of war should be classed as "terrorism"? Most people would not call the attacks of Germany and Britain on each others civilian populations during WWII "terrorism", even though the blanket targeting of civilian populations did occur (ie. the bombing of civilians was not an accident, or "collateral damage", it was a deliberate act designed to kill and undermine moral).

      Why was the bombing of civilian cities (those with no or little military infrastructure) during WWII considered valid, and yet now is considered "terrorism"? Or is there some further factor that people consider - that WWII was a "real war", but the violence with Osama was somewhat "less" of a war, and therefore targeting civilians was not justified?

    71. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by bcmm · · Score: 1

      What were they thinking?

      Thinking? We're talking about the TSA here!

      --
      # cat /dev/mem | strings | grep -i llama
      Damn, my RAM is full of llamas.
    72. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by ei4anb · · Score: 1

      Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Dresden, Tokyo ...

    73. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      Security theater isn't inherently bad.

      Well, there's:

      1. Diverting resources - in the broadest sense of the word - away from effective security.
      2. Causing complacency
      3. The cost and inconvenience to travelers
      4. Civil liberty and corruption implications

      But apart from the minor quibbles above it's a total hoot!

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    74. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd like to point out that a Terrorist (in general) deliberately targets civilians.

      So, how do you then qualify the dropping of 2 atomic bombs on Japan? Wasn't that "target[ing] civilians out of choice"?

    75. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Mr.+Freeman · · Score: 0

      "3. People are made of squishy stuff, and are therefore easy to explode.
      4. Planes are made of metal which is much stronger than people, so they are harder to explode. And before you mention fuel, the fuel is inside the metal."

      OK, you lost me there. See, by this logic, the titanic was an inside job. Metal is harder than ice... duh, obviously the titanic (METAL) could not have been sunk by an iceburg (ICE)!!!

      Sure, the plane is made of metal. You don't have to vaporize the fucking airplane, only disable certain parts of it. For example, blow a huge hole in it, it's no longer aerodynamic and it's going to go down. Take out part of the fuselage and all of a sudden it looses it's structural integrity. It doesn't matter that the plane is made of strong metal if the wings are fucking blown off. The fuel tanks are "inside the metal", but it doesn't take an amazingly large hole to get the fuel out of the metal.

      If you disable the hydraulic lines to the rudder, the craft looses the ability to steer well. You sever the aileron controls to one side of the craft and it's completely fucked.

      --
      -1 disagree is not a modifier for a reason. -1 troll, flaimbait, redundant, overrated are NOT acceptable substitutes.
    76. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Mr.+Freeman · · Score: 1

      And before you go through the FIRST checkpoint? At some point, there is a first checkpoint.

      --
      -1 disagree is not a modifier for a reason. -1 troll, flaimbait, redundant, overrated are NOT acceptable substitutes.
    77. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by jayveekay · · Score: 1

      Illusion of security is correct. I recall watching a security expert explain the ineffectiveness of the TSA procedures for liquids. The screener confiscates and discards the liquids they find and allow the passenger to continue through security (sans liquid).

      So, to defeat that mechanism, all an actual terrorist needs to do is:
      1. Try to get through security with bomb-liquid
      2. If screener misses the liquid, terrorist wins
      3. If liquid is seized, go back out, pick up new bottle of bomb-liquid from storage locker, goto step #1.

      If the TSA wanted to treat liquids as a serious threat then they would need to arrest anyone who attempts to bring a liquid on board and test the liquid. With their current methodology, unless their success rate at findiing liquids is 100% their procedure is ineffective at stopping an actual terrorist attack.

    78. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I guess that settles it - Truman was a terrorist.

    79. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by tyldis · · Score: 1

      Yes, agreed!
      If they confiscate my toothpaste because they suspect it contains explosives, why the hell am I allowed on the plane at all?
      I most certainly would not feel more secure if the 9/11-terrorists were on my plane knowing that even though their guns were confiscated they still have the intent of bringing my fligh down.

      When they take away my toothpaste I would expect a full SWAT-team to appear and beat me to a pulp before taking me away and possibly sending me to Guantanamo.

      Make up your mind, am I a terrorist suspect or not?

    80. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by PMBjornerud · · Score: 1

      They still allow objects with more serious potential through. A laptop as a blunt force instrument? The potential energy stored in a laptop battery? The RF radiation created by handheld electronics?

      Bah! When I travel by air, I usually bring half a gallon of highly flammable liquid and a set of glass knives.

      Just like everyone else.

      http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41292000/jpg/_41292052_bottle203.jpg

      --
      I lost my sig.
    81. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by jayveekay · · Score: 1

      Do you consider Hiroshima and Nagasaki in August 1945 to be primarily civilian targets that were deliberately targeted for destruction with WMD by the US?

    82. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Mr.+Freeman · · Score: 3, Interesting

      A barrel roll is actually a 1 G maneuver that if performed correctly no one will notice until they look out their window. You're probably thinking of a snap roll (plane spins around the axis running down the fuselage). This would injure the terrorists... and everyone else on the plane... and break the plane and crash and burn.

      You can perform a barrel roll in Boeing commercial airliners, and someone actually did so with a 707 when they introduced the model during an airshow. You can't do it in an airbus because the computers on those aircraft think they know better than you and will override you if they don't like what you're doing. This has, of course, caused a couple huge accidents. If a Boeing craft doesn't like you, it'll beep a lot, probably shout at you, but won't override you.

      --
      -1 disagree is not a modifier for a reason. -1 troll, flaimbait, redundant, overrated are NOT acceptable substitutes.
    83. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Mr.+Freeman · · Score: 1

      The only way I've seen of blacking out reports (non-electronically) is to lay heavy black or white paper between the copy machine/scanner and the page being copied/scanned. This way the text doesn't show through the blacking out. It also doesn't mess with the original document so no one is fooled into thinking it's safe to throw away the original with black marker on it. It's either put back in the file or shredded and destroyed properly.

      --
      -1 disagree is not a modifier for a reason. -1 troll, flaimbait, redundant, overrated are NOT acceptable substitutes.
    84. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Tony+Hoyle · · Score: 1

      A refinement of that the used on occasion was to issue a bomb warning in one place then blow up the place people were most likely to evacuate to.

    85. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're now on the TSA watch list. Good job.

    86. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 1

      We both understood that if air travel is the path of most resistance, a real terrorist would choose the path of least resistance.

      Did he also understand that as long as most of the ground crew are not subjected to equal or better screening, that what he was doing wasn't even adding resistance to the path of air travel as a target, just resistance to the path of air travel as a useful service?

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    87. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Tony+Hoyle · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That's because they were dealing with a real threat not just playing at it. If there's a risk of bombs the last thing you want to do is cause a choke point meaning large numbers of people congregate in a single area - you keep the checks as efficient and fast as possible.

    88. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Recursive checkpoints

    89. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by L4t3r4lu5 · · Score: 0, Redundant

      Yo dawg, I heard you like security on your security, so I put some lines in your lines in your lines so you can wait while you wait while you wait!

      Which line would take the bottles of liquids off you? The first or second security line?

      --
      Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
    90. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Mortice · · Score: 1

      [T]o post it to the public; a highly abusive act

      When TSA sees this, it means they won't make the same mistake again, which ultimtely results in less useful information released to the public.

      So you're annoyed that someone released information to the public because doing so might result in less information being released to the public? Your ideas intrigue me.

    91. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by L4t3r4lu5 · · Score: 1

      Because toner is bonded by heat (a lot of the substance is a thermoplastic) it produces a gloss finish when cool. Marker pens don't write well on that surface, and even if they do the underlying gloss surface will still reflect light if angled correctly towards the light source.

      --
      Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
    92. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by beowulfcluster · · Score: 4, Informative

      Indeed, the Lockerbie bombing for example. Apparently a bomb that fit in a tape recorder was enough to blow a hole in the fuselage and that was that.

    93. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by QuantumG · · Score: 0, Troll

      And you continue to show your ignorance of how fucking hard it is to take down an airplane with a bomb.. but hey, the TSA needs idiots like you to support their job program.

      --
      How we know is more important than what we know.
    94. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Attila+the+Bun · · Score: 1

      5. There's no checkpoints to get to the checkpoints, [...]

      Whatever you think of US airport checks, there are plenty of countries with much more elaborately ineffectual security theatre. I've just returned from an airport where there's a checkpoint to access the checkpoint to get to the checkpoint before you can check in. I'd lost half of the papers I was supposed to present, but it didn't seem to matter.

    95. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      A single 20mm round could kill maybe 20 soldiers in a field - if they were standing unrealistically close together.

      If it brought down a full transport plane it could kill a battalion of them.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    96. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Z34107 · · Score: 1

      A refinement of that the used on occasion was to issue a bomb warning in one place then blow up the place people were most likely to evacuate to.

      In high school, I had a rather unique psychology teacher. He was reading the new tornado/fire/zomgterrorist/bad weather protocols to the students; boredom had already crept into his voice.

      After reading that we all evacuate to the bleachers outdoors in the event of a bomb threat he said, "Well, that's stupid. If I was planting a bomb, I'd put it right there and phone it in!

      Stunned silence.

      --
      DATABASE WOW WOW
    97. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by icebrain · · Score: 5, Informative

      Are you actually a pilot, or do you just play one on TV?

      Barrel rolls are 1G maneuvers. A "normal" roll down the axis of the airplane is an aileron roll. This would probably cause injury to those not sitting down with their seat belts on, and those who are hit by the unseated, but won't cause the plane to crash as long as the pilots don't overstress the airframe during the recovery. A snap roll is something else; it's a more violent maneuver that's more complicated than an aileron roll, and one that would likely break the airplane.

      Your "analysis" of Airbus FBW systems is entirely off-base. Fly-by-wire is not some fuzzy-logic computer that tries to think about what you want vs. what it wants to do; rather, such systems have known, hard, rigidly-defined limits. They may have pitch and roll angle limits (as you allude to) in addition to other ones, but essentially they are just feedback controllers, not much more complicated than the PID ones we all remember from our controls theory classes.

      --
      The meek may inherit the earth, but the strong shall take the stars.
    98. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by I+confirm+I'm+not+a · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Your comment re: spirits onboard reminded me of travelling into New Zealand - you're not allowed to carry spirits into Australia or New Zealand. The cause was a flight that crash-landed in Guam: the plane got down relatively safely, minimal people were hurt during the landing, but in the aftermath the duty-free spirits in the overhead lockers caught fire and the deaths quickly mounted up. A Kiwi on the flight survived and began campaigning for a change to the regulations regarding spirits on flights. To date only Australia and New Zealand have changed their regulations.

      When I first encountered this I assumed it was a scam to get me to buy my duty-free at Auckland airport. The more I learned about it, however, the more I supported this measure. It's one of the few changes to air travel that actually make me feel safer. (And it turned out that duty-free was cheaper in Auckland compared to Bangkok - go figure...!)

      Guam government webpage about the crash, If it ain't on Wikipedia it never happened ;-)

      --
      This is where the serious fun begins.
    99. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are correct in most of what you said, but you misunderstand one vital detail. The intended audience. The TSA do want to make the majority of the population feel safe, but only a minority of the population actually fly. Those that do fly get annoyed and harassed by "airport security" so that they will complain loudly about to to the majority of the population who never actually see it for themselves. Irritating and inconveniencing passengers is an important part of the performance.

    100. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by SharpFang · · Score: 1

      One takes the liquids, the other takes the bottles.

      --
      45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
    101. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Phylomo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Awesome branch on this thread. So many people don't know the difference. "Terrorist" designation comes from tactics, from choice of targets, NOT from motivation. Your examples, merinquoid, point out where the line is fuzzy. Another example: PLO suicide bomber attacks against an Israeli military checkpoint? Not terrorism. PLO suicide bomber attacks against a school-bus full of children? Terrorism. PLO suicide bomber attacks against adult Israelis, all of whom might be armed and capable of defending themselves? Civilians, but civilians who view themselves as an extension of the military? Maybe terrorism, maybe not. Certainly an attack that the Israelis have a right to defend themselves against, but maybe not terrorism. (Thanks, jbcarpen, uberbah and merinquoid)

    102. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I went through one. Because of the way my shirt was sewn, it looked like I was wearing suspenders. 15 minutes to explain that it was just a shirt.

      Sounds like security worked. Your suspicious attire resulted in additional screening.

      What if 100 of the tickets for a flight were booked by terrorists? Good luck for the rest of the passengers to overpower them.

      They wouldn't (easily) get into the hardened cockpit.

    103. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Small point. The IRA were terrorists.

    104. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by smoker2 · · Score: 1

      Enigma.

    105. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by N1AK · · Score: 1

      I'm pretty sure the French Resistance did both. So did the IRA.

      The IRA also set off bombs in major city centres and other high profile purely civilian targets, for some reason this wasn't enough to prove to many Americans they were terrorists, but a bunch of fundamentalist muslims making an unrelated attack in September 2001 somehow changed their minds... (I don't want to tar all or even most Americans with this brush, but the high level of IRA funding that came from the US is openly accepted).

      Moral of the story? Regardless of what definition you want to use, most people use the defition Terrorist = someone we don't like or fighting those we do, Freedom fighter = someone we like or fighting those we don't.

      The issue isn't helped by the fact Terrorism is used to cover attacks on civilians regardless of the reason behind them, but seen as being universally evil. Someone fighting against a more powerful aggressor and targetting civilians is a terrorist, but you may feel they are justified.

    106. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by thisnamestoolong · · Score: 1

      Security theater is all well and good up to a point, but the TSA has made air travel almost unbearable. Furthermore, I have serious doubts about the Constitutionality of the Federal Government deciding that we need to forfeit every last bit of our privacy every time we want to get on a plane. The whole thing was ridiculous and funny 10 years ago, but it has gone way beyond that now, into scary/infuriating territory.

      --
      To the haters: You can't win. If you mod me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine
    107. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by lfaraone · · Score: 1

      Flying a plane into the Pentagon? Not terrorism

      What about civilian personnel who make up a large component of the Pentagon staff?

      --
      Maybe if this signature is witty enough, someone will finally love me.
    108. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Your comment is inspired but insipid. Chemical explosives have to be mixed before they will detonate. Otherwise, they might not even burn and will certainly not explode. Airports are well-equipped to handle chemical fires.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    109. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by yabos · · Score: 1

      Because the TSA are a bunch of incompetents. There's a reason why TSA has all these nick names http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/hangar-talk/3305-tsa-acronyms.html

    110. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by MartinSchou · · Score: 1

      And these target-rich queues [...]

      Well, I have a better target in mind: The check-in lines.

      The typical large crowds are at the check-in counters rather than security check points.

      Take a typical large suitcase. Fill it with C4 and line it with large steel bearings. No need to get through security, as your target is the crowd rather than an air-plane.

      For added bonus points use several suitcases and design them to be used as shaped charges to cut through large concrete and/or steel columns. Wire all of them to be triggered by a single trigger, get a gang of suicide bombers to help you out and take out an entire airport terminal.

      My big suitcase can fit about 400 litres, which should be plenty of explosives (about 650 kg C4) to take out any kind of support column. Granted, you'd need to heavily reinforce the suitcase, but I'm sure smarter and more knowledgeable people than me can do better.

    111. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      * From Fight Club, by Chuck Palahniuk

    112. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Also, if they bomb the checkpoints what is the response going to be? More checkpoints further out? An infinite array of security checkpoints?

      Don't be silly; if checkpoints don't work the next logical step is to build a wall. Once all the airports have been walled off, we will be secure (except on buses and trains and in cars or as pedestrians or on bicycles or skateboards).

    113. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by yabos · · Score: 1

      Because the TSA KNOW it's not dangerous, it's just a bunch of crap to make it so they keep their jobs.

    114. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Phylomo · · Score: 1

      In a war on the scale of WWII, the "means of production" becomes a legitimate target.

      Also, let's not forget that ALL attacks against "us" are bad. Whether they are by partisans, soldiers or terrorists. The people on the other side feel the same way. When we discuss "terrorism", we are discussing what methods we are justified in using to respond against our enemies, and what we will do with them as prisoners and when the war is over, not whether or not they are our enemies. When someone attacks us, we will kill them. Period. Saying that the attacks on the Pentagon, or the USS Cole or Ft. Hood were not terrorism does NOT mean that they were OK. It's a matter of sorting out our proper response. Without proper definitions, it becomes hard to talk intelligently about anything.

      In WWII, we were in a fight for our survival. ANY methods taken were appropriate, because we had no choice but to win.

      The fight we are in now is presently less of a threat, so our responses have to be tempered by our understanding of the enemy. Because this enemy has chosen terrorist attacks against civilian targets, our response can (and must) be different. So, yes, in this war against Al Qaida, we are not to the point where targeting civilians is a tactic that we will choose. It seems unlikely that these Phase 1 (if I remember my Mao properly) guerrilla tactics will ever lead us to bombing civilian centers indiscriminately. In WWII that was an acceptable and proper thing to do.

    115. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by JWSmythe · · Score: 3, Interesting

          I have one better for you.

          I upgraded my ticket at a kiosk for a flight. I love the $75 upgrades. :) My original boarding pass already had "SSSSS" on it, which means I was flagged to be checked. The upgraded ticket also had the "SSSSS" on it. I went through the metal detector. I was patted down, and questioned about my intentions on the flight (Umm, to get from Point A to Point B). Something trivial was taken from me and thrown in the bin, but I don't remember exactly what. My seat? Row 1, Seat C. That put me in the very first row, on the aisle. If I sneezed, the snot would have hit the cockpit door. If I was a security concern for any reason, is that really where you want me?

          At one point during the flight, the pilot came out to use the restroom. The only thing between me and the controls? A petite stewardess. Obviously I had no intention of doing anything bad, since I'm writing this in freedom. :) But, come on, if there was even a hint that I'd do something bad, would it be appropriate to give me the perfect seat to do it from?

      --
      Serious? Seriousness is well above my pay grade.
    116. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by thisnamestoolong · · Score: 1

      Apparently it has succeeded in America -- the terrorists "hate our freedom" (TM), so we figured that if we get rid of a bit of our freedom, they will hate us less and be less likely to attack. Mission accomplished!

      --
      To the haters: You can't win. If you mod me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine
    117. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Phylomo · · Score: 1

      "Unless the targeting in question is carried out by the government of a nation state, in which case it usually gets called "war" or "policing""

      Not true. Attacks against civilian targets are terrorism. See my post above, but in a war on the scale of WWII the means of production become a legitimate target. Winning is the only criterion.

    118. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by JWSmythe · · Score: 1

          I'd be happy if they'd just use some lube. Unfortunately, they confiscate it and throw it in the bin BEFORE the body cavity search.

      --
      Serious? Seriousness is well above my pay grade.
    119. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Joey+Vegetables · · Score: 1

      How is this reasoning different than bin Laden's? Could he not argue that Muslims are in a fight for their survival and that any methods are appropriate because they have no choice but to win?? Actually, he, and many other terrorists, have made EXACTLY that argument, and it is no different than yours, and if I for one am forced to either take innocent lives or to die, then I will die, because I have no right to deliberately take an innocent life, for any reason or under any circumstances I can imagine. Neither do you, nor does bin Laden, nor do the U.S. or Israeli governments, nor did the British nor the Germans. Every life is precious and irreplaceable, and all of the monotheistic religions, among others, teach that to kill an innocent is a crime for which one will answer, if not in this life, then in the next.

    120. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by moeinvt · · Score: 1

      "A half-pound black powder bomb with steel BBs would be well more than enough[to kill, say 200, people]. That's about the size of a tennis ball."

      Not a chance! Black powder won't even explode unless it's contained, and a couple of layers of bone and meat are going to stop all of the steel BBs. 8 ounces of black powder might kill a handful of people and damage the hearing of a few others, but that's it. Even a tennis ball sized piece of C4 wouldn't be that destructive.

    121. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by tsstahl · · Score: 1

      Welcome to the no-fly list, JimboG.

    122. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Joey+Vegetables · · Score: 1

      I would differentiate between someone who collaborated willingly and someone who was coerced into doing so, for instance by threats to his or her family.

    123. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by bkr1_2k · · Score: 2, Interesting

      This is exactly why military planes aren't pressurized (at least not to the same altitude--when there is any pressurization). It's a lot easier to withstand holes if there isn't a significant pressure difference. Maybe airlines should consider changing the pressure levels of the cabins.

      --
      "Growing old is inevitable; growing up is optional."
    124. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by guruevi · · Score: 1

      As you say, there are always going to be civilian casualties unless you go back to the old days, pick an open field as battleground and charge at each other. That doesn't make the military forces on either side "Terrorists"

      Terrorists are a group people that routinely attack civilian targets in order to further their (ideological) cause by causing fear in the civilian population - they usually do not have a flag or even a state. The attacks on the Twin Towers was terrorism, it was intentionally planned to target civilians by a stateless group of people. The attack on the Pentagon is more grey since the Pentagon is a military building, you could consider it an act or unspoken declaration of war by the Al-Qaeda military but since they also targeted civilians I guess you could consider it terrorism.

      The current war in Iraq is not a "War on Terrorism" because the people attacking the US military there are not "Terrorists", they are merely defending their country and their ideology from invaders. After all Nazi Germany was not a terrorist group but a military force but the Nazi's were also mass-murderers. Their primary goal was not to have the people live in fear, they just wanted to get rid of a certain group of people so that their country would be better off. Neither were the Allies or the resistance considered terrorists. The issue with Al-Qaeda is that they are both a military organization and a terrorist organization. If the US wanted to punish the "Terrorists" responsible for 9/11, they should just arrest them whenever they have the chance or send a crack team of Special Forces to assassinate the leadership (CIA would've done it without blinking). That, however, is not the reason the US invaded Iraq.

      --
      Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
    125. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Hyppy · · Score: 1

      How about "+1, Flight Club Quote"?

    126. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      Yeah I would just leave the campus, fuck that.

    127. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Now, a question of etiquette - as I pass, do I give you the ass or the crotch?

    128. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I would consider civilians working for the military in a military building to be military targets (or at least collateral damage).

    129. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Magic5Ball · · Score: 1

      On most commercial planes there are at least two other doors, involuntary passage through which would induce far greater terror among the flying and non-flying public than any terrorist action arising through the cockpit.

      --
      There are 1.1... kinds of people.
    130. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by moeinvt · · Score: 1

      "In WWII, we were in a fight for our survival. ANY methods taken were appropriate . . ."

      "In WWII [bombing civilian centers indiscriminately] was an acceptable and proper thing to do."

      I hope that you made those statements in haste without giving them a lot of thought. Or perhaps the "we" you are talking about means Eastern Europeans and Russians, in which case I might see your point. Otherwise, you have rather sick and twisted morals. "ANY" tactics are appropriate??? Bombing civilians was "acceptable" and "proper"??? There are things called "war crimes" and "crimes against humanity" and in a just world, they would apply to both the victor and the vanquished.

    131. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by tyldis · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Also, I did WLAN installations at a range of airports as a hired consultant.
      They only checked my police record before issuing me with an access to *all* areas on *every* airport in the country. Not even security officers matched my clearance.

      To make it even 'worse': I had clearance to bring any item or equipment past the security checkpoint, except explosives. I had knives and all sorts of sharp/blunt objects.

      On one occasion I also brought my car and got clearance to bring it on the same side as the airplanes. The security officer who was to inspect my car rolled his eyes to see it filled with ~60 boxes (containing WLAN AP) and decided it was too much of an effort to check the vehicle so I could just pass.

      No interview, deep background checks, nothing before I got clearance. I suspect the cleaning staff have similar clearance (except their equipment might already be inside).

      I guess I was just one of many... It then bothers me endlessly to be stripped of my toothpaste when flying civil (my clearance ended this summer, a ear after I switched jobs...).

    132. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by PFactor · · Score: 1

      But not necessarily in that order.

      --
      Don't believe anything I say. I crash test crack pipes for a living.
    133. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by bkr1_2k · · Score: 1

      Cigarette lighters aren't allowed on flights. I've had several confiscated.

      --
      "Growing old is inevitable; growing up is optional."
    134. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by locallyunscene · · Score: 1

      It can also be used to enforce the status quo. The goal of terrorism is to create terror. How it is used afterward is up to the terrorist or state.

    135. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by maxume · · Score: 1

      So fly on a private plane.

      The constitutionality is sidestepped because the airports and airlines are the ones 'requesting' the security.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    136. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by bkr1_2k · · Score: 1

      The only thing between me and the controls? A petite stewardess.
      I guess you haven't flown in a while since this doesn't happen any more either... In the last 10 flights I've taken there is always at least one flight attendant (usually two) and they use the food carts to block the aisle between the forward galley area (used for first class service) and the passengers such that there is a physical barrier and at least one person between you and the door to the controls. Then someone knocks on the door to let the flight crew know they are "safe" to open the door and come out.

      --
      "Growing old is inevitable; growing up is optional."
    137. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by thisnamestoolong · · Score: 1

      If the airports and airlines are 'requesting' the security, they can 'hire' people to do it. If airline security is subject to the normal cost/benefit analyses of the free market, it will very quickly become far more streamlined and efficient, which will be better for us all.

      --
      To the haters: You can't win. If you mod me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine
    138. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by TheLink · · Score: 1

      > You can make something just as sharp as any box cutter and much easier to hide.

      Sure but, they already let you carry stuff like pens on board. Some of those pens are pretty lethal by themselves, add a few modifications and they'll become even more effective weapons.

      I can think of other very dangerous things that you'd probably be able to sneak onboard. Stuff that can jeopardize an entire plane. And stuff that can allow you to kill a fair number of people.

      I'm not going to post it here though.

      Anyway, you did behave out of the ordinary and that gets you flagged. You're lucky your colleague didn't have child porn on the laptop...

      --
    139. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by dave420 · · Score: 1

      Transport planes can hold 600-1500 fully-armed soldiers?

    140. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Phylomo · · Score: 1

      I understand your point of view and I respect it. I don't necessarily agree with all of it, however.

      Labels like "terrorist" are mostly internal. We use them to classify the attacks against us and to determine our proper response. We also use them to defend ourselves in the court of public opinion after the fact.

      The bin Ladens of the radical muslim world have clearly CHOSEN to enter into this conflict. While they can argue that they are in a fight for their survival, this is clearly not true. You are right that the form of the argument is the same, but the merit of their argument is lacking. In WWII armies of Nazis were destroying Europe. Show me that happening in the Middle East. Don't bother saying Iraq or Afghanistan, both are responses to the attacks of 9/11. (Yes, I know, Hussein, 9/11, no direct connection, etc... our invasion is still a response to 9/11)

      With regards to the taking of innocent lives you said, "if I for one am forced to either take innocent lives or to die, then I will die". I agree with and support that statement. Unfortunately, that is not the choice that war forces on us. In most cases in war (and especially in WWII and in this war) the only choice is WHICH innocents will die. Innocents will die and our enemy is counting on that. They deliberately hide behind noncombatants for the purpose of causing civilian casualties. If we refuse to take action because innocents will be killed, our enemies win that engagement. Then more innocents die when they attack us, INTENTIONALLY TARGETING INNOCENTS. Given this choice, in WWII and now, we choose to fight, accepting that a shorter war kills fewer innocents.

    141. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by JimboG · · Score: 1

      I've flown internationally a few times this year, never had one confiscated. Don't worry. I gave up smoking last month. I can't do much damage with nicotine gum.

    142. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by plague3106 · · Score: 1

      Well, the Second army and a regional army were both headquarted at Hiroshima. I believe Nagasaki was building quite a bit of military hardware.

      Given the larger cities could have been chosen, I'd say no.

    143. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by dkleinsc · · Score: 1

      As George Carlin pointed out, if firefighters fight fires, and crime fighters fight crime, what do "freedom fighters" fight?

      But seriously, the difference between the US's treatment of the IRA versus the US's treatment of Hamas is rather fascinating, since both their tactics and goals were/are extremely similar.

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
    144. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by sgtrock · · Score: 1

      Shanghai, Manila, Peking, Hong Kong...

    145. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Bob9113 · · Score: 1

      I like your post, and I think it is an important distinction to make.

      What is your take on Major Hasan at Fort Hood? Suppose that he was of a clear mind and was acting on a belief that he was a holy warrior based on his conversations with the imam. He targeted military personnel. If holy war was his motive (and I do not know if it was), would he be a terrorist, a freedom fighter, or something else?

    146. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by dave420 · · Score: 1

      Hardly. If a freedom fighter can't get close enough to the military targets they want to attack, they'll go for what they can - their support. That support is always civilians. It's very easy for us in the west to not think about that. Terrorists and freedom fighters are two sides of the same damned coin. The sooner we realise that, the sooner we have neither. Your logic perpetuates the violence. Just look at the IRA - were they freedom fighters or terrorists? They attacked both, because they couldn't get to the military targets as well as they'd want. They started to blow up people instead, in order to get the attention of the British government. And guess what - it worked.

    147. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 1

      The current war in Iraq is not a "War on Terrorism" because the people attacking the US military there are not "Terrorists", they are merely defending their country and their ideology from invaders.

      It should, perhaps, be pointed out that the overwhelming majority of the attacks in Iraq are Muslim "terrorists/freedom-fighters" blowing up other Muslims. While they do attack our soldiers from time to time, most of their effort is directed at softer targets....

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    148. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by operagost · · Score: 1

      What if 100 of the tickets for a flight were booked by terrorists?

      That's what the CIA and FBI are for.

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    149. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by operagost · · Score: 1

      Japan had declared war against the US, and they were warned of the attacks.

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    150. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Phylomo · · Score: 1

      No, my thoughts are well considered.

      These were horrible actions, I agree with you on that, but the alternative was to allow the Nazis and Imperial Japan to win the war. Read about the rape of Nanking. Read about the Bataan Death March. Read about the atrocities the Nazis performed against Jews, the Romany, homosexuals. Imagine a world run by either of those empires. We did the right things, horrible as they were.

      Please do not put quotes around something I didn't say. Please quote me directly if you wish to quote me at all. I understand what you were trying to do, but I don't like you changing, in any way, what I actually said.

      The "we" I was talking about means the United States. We did what was necessary to stop a greater evil from taking over the entire world. LITERALLY! TAKING OVER THE ENTIRE WORLD.

      "There are things called "war crimes" and "crimes against humanity" and in a just world, they would apply to both the victor and the vanquished."

      We don't live in a just world.

      "you have rather sick and twisted morals"

      I respect your opinions and only ask that you respect me in our discussions.

    151. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by mdwh2 · · Score: 1

      That argument stops when it:

      * Causes hassles for the people.
      * Actually creates a security risk in itself (the example of the crowded waiting lines, as the OP pointed out).
      * It costs vast amounts of money, that could be used saving lives in other areas (policing, health).

      And it's still clueless and inept - pleading "But I'm intentionally being clueless and inept to fool other people who are clueless and inept" doesn't change the fact that they're being clueless and inept. It's like saying a stupid person is just pretending to be stupid all the time - if it walks like a duck, etc.

    152. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by dave420 · · Score: 1

      Zippo-style lighters are not, butane lighters are.

    153. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by TheLink · · Score: 1

      > At some point, there is a first checkpoint.

      The first checkpoint is in a different country ;).

      --
    154. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by mdwh2 · · Score: 1

      But then by that argument, what about all the civilian personnel working in military installations in Iraq, or any other war?

    155. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Phylomo · · Score: 1

      In reading my previous post I have seen an inaccuracy. When I said:

      "Innocents will die and our enemy is counting on that. They deliberately hide behind noncombatants for the purpose of causing civilian casualties."

      ...I was talking about THIS war, not the German soldiers of WWII. As far as I know, most individual German soldiers fought honorably in a dishonorable cause. I was not meaning to imply that they were morally the same as the terrorists we are fighting now.

    156. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by JWSmythe · · Score: 1

          A well planned covert operation would go unnoticed though. What's the difference between booking 100 tickets for your "Christian group tour of [insert city]", "100 terrorists who want to break something", and "100 arbitrary people"? The first two are dangerous. :)

          If the identities of all those who are involved (or interested) in terrorist organizations were already known to your favorite TLA (three letter agency), they would have already been collected, and shuttled off to rendition camps somewhere. The ones who remain on the street are well, just "suspicious", so not only can't they be arrested, but they they'll only rate "SSSSS" on their boarding pass, and be given the same cursory examination that the rest of us already get.

      --
      Serious? Seriousness is well above my pay grade.
    157. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's security checkpoints all the way down!

      -mobby_6kl

    158. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Ardeaem · · Score: 1

      You've missed the point of taking a bomb onto a plane. The vast majority of terrorist plane hijackings have NOT been like September 11 - that is, they usually don't want to blow up the plane. They want to take people captive and extract promises and get attention. The bomb is just a last resort, IF things don't go well. The captive environment of an airplane is ideal for this. The open environment of a security line is not.

    159. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by ZygnuX · · Score: 1

      So you will be hanging around while pulling 650 kg of C4? Why dont just rip the support columns with your bare hands, Hulk? :)

    160. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The last time I took my altimeter on the plane the pressure stopped somewhere around 6K feet. If you go much higher than that you're going to run the risk of health issues.

    161. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by BetterSense · · Score: 1

      Cigarette lighters have been allowed for some time. I know because I've checked before I carried my expensive lighter with me. I still believe your confiscations of course.

    162. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      Nanking, Singapore, Dresden, Guernica.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    163. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I didn't realize you could mix two things to make an element.

    164. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Antique+Geekmeister · · Score: 1

      There's no need to reach back that far historically. Afghanistan's Taliban did _precisely_ this to the Soviet Union when they tried occupying there. And they lost pretty much the same way.

    165. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by ultranova · · Score: 1

      the main result is that we hope if you get hijacked you'll do your patriotic duty to stop the hijackers

      Which would be a lot easier if they weren't the only ones with knives and guns.

      I'm usually against guns as a solution to crime (because I think they're pretty useless, the criminal having the element of surprise, but feel free to carry anyway if you want to), but heck, if they're that scared of the plane being hijacked, just loan each passenger a gun at the airport and anyone trying will most likely be dead within seconds.

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    166. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Pig+Hogger · · Score: 2

      (I don't want to tar all or even most Americans with this brush, but the high level of IRA funding that came from the US is openly accepted).

      That’s because the IRA’s fight is the same the US went through back around 1776.

      And IRA’s fight is just as legit, by the way. It's the limeys' indomitable pigheadedness that is the source of all the trouble. They only need to dump Northern Ireland to EIRE; the orangists who live there will then appropriately dealed with by the irish or they will be repatriated to England, where they belong.

    167. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by MartinSchou · · Score: 1

      My point was more along the lines of "plenty of space for a big boom" than "it'd be feasible to fit 650 kg of explosives into a suitcase".

    168. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Thing+1 · · Score: 1

      Put your feet into the shoes of the security experts who are keeping you safe [...]

      ... and then take them off to show you're not a risk.

      --
      I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
    169. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by DavidTC · · Score: 1

      And the reason you and the ten other guys can't mix them before putting them in your confiscated water bottles?

      Granted, this is more work than simply just walking in with a big explosive and setting it off in line, but, yes it is absurd to solve the problem of 'explosive liquids' by...throwing them all together in a trash bin.

      --
      If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
    170. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by mikael · · Score: 1

      At least they aren't using the ADE-651 long-range electrostatic metal detector.

      --
      Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
    171. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by DavidTC · · Score: 1

      Sigh.

      Yes, a barrel roll can be a 1G maneuver that causes no change at all inside the aircraft.

      Or you can hold it while you're upside down, which would certainly disrupt anything going on inside a commercial airliner as it fell on the ceiling.

      That actually would be pretty dangerous to all the passengers. People might be buckled in, but their laptops aren't.

      A better solution would be to just roll the plane a little. 20 degree or so would let even unbuckled people remain in their seat, and cause all loose object to just slide on the floor, while making it incredibly hard to walk down the isles.

      --
      If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
    172. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by JWSmythe · · Score: 1

          And they were well funded by one particular superpower. Oh ya, that was the US.

      --
      Serious? Seriousness is well above my pay grade.
    173. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Urban+Garlic · · Score: 1

      > You can perform a barrel roll in Boeing commercial airliners, and someone actually did so with a 707 when they introduced the model during an airshow.

      That wasn't "somebody", that was Alvin "Tex" Johnston, and it wasn't an airshow, it was a demonstration flight for the 707's future customers. The Boeing folks just about had heart attacks.

      He's got a Wikipedia page, of course.
      And there's video.

      --
      2*3*3*3*3*11*251
    174. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Phylomo · · Score: 1

      Good points. I would disagree and say that Iraq is part of the "War on Terror" even though I agree with your assessment of the combatants, in general. It gives us a place to work from in doing the things I'll mention further down.

      I disagree with this statement:

      "The issue with Al-Qaeda is that they are both a military organization and a terrorist organization. If the US wanted to punish the "Terrorists" responsible for 9/11, they should just arrest them whenever they have the chance or send a crack team of Special Forces to assassinate the leadership (CIA would've done it without blinking)."

      There are two types of terrorism, home-grown and international. Home-grown terrorism (Timothy McVeigh, The Weathermen) are best dealt with by law enforcement. International terrorism is dealt with by cutting off its supports:

      - safe locations in another country
      - money
      - diplomatic protection

      Al-Queda is clearly terrorist and international in nature. While assassination would deal with part of the problem, it can't deal with the money or diplomatic protection. Law enforcement can make some headway against the money, but not the other two. In short, military action is necessary and justified. Hence the invasions of both Afghanistan and Iraq.

    175. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Phylomo · · Score: 1

      Perhaps I don't know enough about the IRA, but I don't remember them attacking the US or intentionally targeting US citizens. Am I missing something?

    176. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your explanation only reveals a minor justification. The main reason for security is control and power. We don't need the illusion of their security as much as the so-called bosses need the illusion of our control.

    177. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      yes, but if there is a first, you can always protect it by putting one in front of it.

    178. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Publikwerks · · Score: 2, Insightful

      But a bomb, or any weapon, can be used to TAKE CONTROL of a a PLANE. "I will blow the plan up unless the pilot opens the security door, and allows me to fly the plane". If they wanted to kill people straight up, they would go to Times Square or a parade or somthing. Someplace with alot less police and security than a freaking airport. Hell, Lansdowne st next to Fenway has more people gametime than ANY airport security. It's just a bad target. They want the plan to crash it into something. As we have seen, that much mass traveling that fast with alot of jet fuel makes a huge mess when it hits something, and there is very little chance of stopping it.

    179. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by DavidTC · · Score: 1

      And you can make a busy day just by doing something an hour or so before. Have some sort of screaming hysterical fit at the checkpoint, or show up with enough gunpowder on your hands to set off the explosive detector (But not an actual bomb.) Or throw a iron disk into a metal detector making it go off all the time so everyone has to go through the other ones. Arrange hairbrushes inside your luggage so they look like a gun.

      Or, the easiest, call in a bomb threat.

      Screw up the flow, wait until they've reopened the line again and everyone is trying to get to their plane. Then set off the bomb.

      Or, as was pointed out below, just put a bomb where people are supposed to go in case of a bomb threat.

      The reason terrorists don't blow people up a) either because there aren't enough of them, which only works if they don't have a single US operative, or b) they don't want to blow people up.

      --
      If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
    180. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by shugah · · Score: 1

      TSA is not exactly known for well reasoned intelligent policies.

      I have a very common first name and last name - it's not John Smith, but it's similar, and some idiot put my name (as several hundred thousand others') on the no-fly watch list. So now for flights, I can't check in on the web or using the kiosks, I have to stand in the line-up and go to the service counter, show my passport, they call a supervisor who verifies by my birth date and place of birth that I am not the "John Smith" on the list and then I can check in. It makes it damn near impossible to do advance seat assignment or when I travel with my wife and children to sit in same row/section of the aircraft. The maddening part, since I live in Canada, is that I have to do this for domestic flights within Canada now, as well as in the US.

      --
      If you aren't part of the solution, then there is good money to be made prolonging the problem
    181. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      would he be a terrorist, a freedom fighter, or something else?

      He'd be a vegetable.

    182. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by DavidTC · · Score: 1

      Indeed. Five people walk into an airport with standard rolling suitcases, one with a suitcase full of C4 or something, the others full of BBs.

      Half way through the security line, they quickly throw their suitcases around the suitcase with the explosives, and boom.

      Of course, the most ironic thing to do would be to have a single bag and set it off inside the x-ray machine, which would provide instant shrapnel.

      --
      If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
    183. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Tetsujin · · Score: 1

      Just like how some people ask why they don't make planes out of the same material black boxes are made out of...

      Why don't we just make the security lines out of the same material black boxes are made out of? Or, better yet, why not make people bomb-proof?

      And with those words, the Age of the Daleks began...

      --
      Bow-ties are cool.
    184. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Tetsujin · · Score: 1

      Yo dawg, I herd you like tired-ass memes so I put some shut the hell up in your face.

      --
      Bow-ties are cool.
    185. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can't do it in an airbus because the computers on those aircraft think they know better than you and will override you if they don't like what you're doing. This has, of course, caused a couple huge accidents. If a Boeing craft doesn't like you, it'll beep a lot, probably shout at you, but won't override you.

      Hahaha, and that neatly sums up the philosophical difference between Europe and America.

      Or at least it use to.

    186. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Tetsujin · · Score: 1

      I don't see why the TSA wouldn't do the same thing.

      Q: What do you call the guy who graduates in last place from the police academy?

      Steve Gutenberg?

      --
      Bow-ties are cool.
    187. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Alpha830RulZ · · Score: 1

      The reason terrorists don't blow people up a) either because there aren't enough of them, which only works if they don't have a single US operative, or b) they don't want to blow people up.

      Bing, bing, bing, We have a winner.

      Anyone who flies regularly has stories about what has inadvertantly slipped through security. I have had pocket knives slide through twice in the last year, knives that make your little box cutters look like the toys they are. Potential terrorists -must- know this, and could exploit this if they so desired. Since the security is demonstrably porous, and yet we have had no serious attempts to exploit this security weakness, one of two things must be true:

      1) the authorities are catching everyone attempting attacks, and are suppressing them without the other passengers, crew, or media catching on, and keeping it a secret from all of us, or

      2) there is a very low incidence rate of attack attempts.

      Do you think the TSA is competent to keep secrets? I don't.

      --
      I was taught to respect my elders. The trouble is, it's getting harder and harder to find some.
    188. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by chihowa · · Score: 1

      What if you were to claim that the WTC attacks were (misguidedly) aimed at the means of production? Would that then make them a legitimate military target? Infrastructure facilitating the military of an opposing power are legit targets, even if they are staffed with civilians.

      --
      If you want a vision of the future, imagine a youtube comments section scrolling - forever.
    189. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by mog007 · · Score: 1

      Even in those old days when the idiots lined up in a line to shoot at each other, civilians died. Civilians would stand on the sidelines and watch, and a stray musket round would kill them, and don't forget that the soldiers back in those days didn't spend time on a military base, they just picked out a farm house with a hot looking daughter and spent the night there for free.

    190. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by mog007 · · Score: 1

      Hiroshima yes. Nagasaki no. Nagasaki was actually the secondary target for fat man, the primary target was too cloudy.

    191. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by mog007 · · Score: 1

      I'm so glad that nutty terrorists don't have any critical thinking ability. If they were half as talented as you, we might actually be in trouble.

    192. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Attacks on urban infrastructure are a valid military target (or so Israel, the US and the UK tell us), apparently regardless of civilian loss. Therefore the London Tube and Bus attacks were valid, as were the Trade Towers and the Pentagon - its no different to attacking the power and water plants or airports in Palestine. Its only terrorism when its your own people (or allies) dying - otherwise, we've all learned to accept this as a standard tactic for a long time now (the bombing of Dresden is considered a strategic move to this day - but to the Germans it was a sheer, bloody, terror inducing attack on civilians).

    193. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Here's some mercury fulminate in a bottle. Since chemical explosives have to be mixed before they'll detonate, you will of course have no complaint when I ask you to make it part of your juggling act, no?

    194. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by dkleinsc · · Score: 1

      Hamas hasn't attacked the US either, and doesn't target Americans in particular. Their primary target is and has always been Israel and Israelis. The extent of Hamas attacking Americans has been generally attacking Israel and unexpectedly ending up with American captives or casualties.

      I think what you're missing is that Hamas isn't the same organization as Al Qaida, which has done both of the things you mentioned.

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
    195. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Culture20 · · Score: 1

      Flying a plane into the Pentagon? Not terrorism (though it was for the folks on the plane).

      The Pentagon's not much of a military target, despite being filled with military folk. It's much more civilian than you think. Also, those hijackers were working in tandem with a plan to kill thousands of civilians, so it's rather disingenuous to list only the Pentagon as a target in that particular example.

    196. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by amRadioHed · · Score: 1

      I think the idea is that if people are not allowed to bring liquids onto the plane then they will have no reason to bring dangerous fluids to the airport. Thus the bins of wasted water are necessary to deter attackers, but they would not be expected to have anything but actual water in them.

      It's all rubbish of course. Anyone with two brain cells to rub together could sneak as much liquid as they want onto a plane, but at least that's why the water bottles aren't considered dangerous.

      --
      We hope your rules and wisdom choke you / Now we are one in everlasting peace
    197. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Phylomo · · Score: 1

      Fair enough. I'll do some research.

      Sometimes it's hard to keep all the anti-Israel, anti-US, anti-Europe terrorists straight.

      Hamas definitely HAS attacked our ally, Israel. They are strategically important to us, so I think my original opinion still has some validity. The IRA isn't a strategic threat to us, might be a better wording.

    198. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are right ways and wrong ways about doing redactions, and I've seen this personally.

      Right: Microsoft has a Word 2003 redaction tool. There is also a third party one from Codeplex that offers the functionality in Word 2007.

      Acrobat version 8 has a redaction tool, and if you want to lose all your formatting, you can redact your text, then "re-print" it through the Adobe printer as a bitmap, ensuring that any text that was "covered" is definitely done, with no way of retrieving it.

      Wrong: Drawing black squares and rectangles over the sensitive information.

    199. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The other support to your argument is how many terrorists have hit major sporting events??

      The main point of terrorism isn't necessarily the body count, but creating debilitating effects on a certain part of a society. 9/11 effected the economy not only by disrupting the markets for a few days, but by creating enough of a panic that transportation in general slowed down. Sales go down, companies begin to cut back, more people are out of work causing less spending and a recession has its beginnings..

    200. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by ArsenneLupin · · Score: 1

      -1 Troll? What happened, QuantumG? Did your sock puppets run out of modpoints?

    201. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Call it two or three fists, sandwich it between two metal discs and pack the shrapnel around the sides like a cabasa.

      Set it off at neck height.

    202. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You make it sound hard, but...

      [citation needed]

      or at least some math

    203. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by dkleinsc · · Score: 1

      The IRA definitely HAS attacked our ally, Britain. They are strategically important to us, so I think my original opinion still has some validity.

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
    204. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Nethemas+the+Great · · Score: 1

      If they stood really close...

      --
      Two of my imaginary friends reproduced once ... with negative results.
    205. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by misexistentialist · · Score: 1

      Sounds like pretty dismal ad hoc security. The flight crew should not even leave the cabin during flight, and there should be a vestibule with two secure doors--if a separate door to enter the plane itself is for some reason not possible.

    206. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by sexconker · · Score: 1

      Advanced
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    207. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by LotsOfPhil · · Score: 1

      Simple example: sugar plus sulfuric acid gives you nice hunk of elemental carbon. Did you think making molecules was a one way street and eventually all the pure elements would be used up? Those spendthrift chemists.

      By the way, the oxygen we breathe is molecular oxygen, O_2, not O. An oxygen atom on its own is very reactive and likes making molecules.

      --
      This post climbed Mt. Washington.
    208. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by flappinbooger · · Score: 1

      Ok Mr Yetihehe is now on a list somewhere.

      --
      Flappinbooger isn't my real name
    209. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by ushering05401 · · Score: 1

      I know people who work in the US government. As I understand it, when releasing material that is partially blacked out, in most departments the procedure is to simply black it out on a hard copy and then photocopy the hard copy or scan it if it is to go online. This removes any chance of clever ways of getting the data if there's something about the file format or such that is strange. I don't see why the TSA wouldn't do the same thing. Moreover, isn't the fact that you can do this with PDFs well known? I've even seen it used as a way of covering up spoilers. What were they thinking?

      Ninety Nine Red Balloons.

    210. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by sexconker · · Score: 1

      4. Planes are made of metal which is much stronger than people, so they are harder to explode. And before you mention fuel, the fuel is inside the metal.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MpPDy0SXjjA#t=7m10s
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnEVJlkStWA#t=3m16s

    211. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As a Tink I can tell you that the IRA strategy was not progressive bombings, but recursive bombings set up by the progressive pattern. The plan just never made it that far during the troubles due to 'civilian' resistance. Check the Kenya U.S. Embassy time-lines for more details.

      It is the rescuers, not the fleeing mob that you want to hit. Gosh, that slmost sounds like something that happened in a city I loved and had family in. I would probably be a conspiracy theorist if I felt a need to be relevant.

    212. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by sexconker · · Score: 1

      And before you go through the FIRST checkpoint? At some point, there is a first checkpoint.
      -Mr. Freeman

      A lot of good that first checkpoint at Black Mesa did, eh Mr. Freemen? We'll be seeing you soon, Mr. Freeman.

    213. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by frank_adrian314159 · · Score: 1

      [Bunch of junk, trying to draw distinction where none exists to make people feel better about killing each other.]

      Bottom line, it's all just killing. Try talking to people and do your best to ensure that they have enough resources to guarantee their existence without a bunch of interference in how they run their lives and you probably won't have to do as much of it. Not that it would take care of everything, but it does seem that we (and by we, I mean the species) tend to run for the bombs before we talk to each other these days.

      --
      That is all.
    214. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nothing quite so salacious...

      http://www.elsathenetherlands2.nl/suspenders.JPG

    215. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by sexconker · · Score: 1

      While I agree it's all bullshit...

      They still allow objects with more serious potential through. A laptop as a blunt force instrument? The potential energy stored in a laptop battery? The RF radiation created by handheld electronics? The fact that a highschool football player could overpower the flight crew and air marshals? They worry about that tube of toothpaste. What if 100 of the tickets for a flight were booked by terrorists? Good luck for the rest of the passengers to overpower them.

      A fist is an effective blunt force instrument.

      A whopper from the food court has an order of magnitude more energy than your laptop battery.

      The RF radiation is completely safe - both for you meat beings and for the equipment.

      Air marshals (do they even exist?) have guns. A football player could not overpower them. Nor could he overpower a plane full of people. Nor could he bust down the cockpit door before a timid stewardess decided to ram him with the beverage cart.

      Terrorists wouldn't buy 100 tickets. It's not cost effective. And the more you buy the more likely you are to get caught. And the terrorists don't like to send their minions out in large groups. If any one of them has second thoughts they blow the whole thing. The more tickets you buy the less infidels there are on the plane to kill.

    216. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't see why the TSA wouldn't do the same thing.

      Those darned college degrees are so much better than on-the-job experience and basic understanding of modeled architectural designs!

      Time for me to go back to school. GAG. :)

    217. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Just FYI, parent is definitely NSFW.

    218. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by poofmeisterp · · Score: 1

      *begins drawing black boxes over what you said* :>

    219. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by ZERO1ZERO · · Score: 1

      o_O 'braces', for non-american English speaking folk.

    220. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Phylomo · · Score: 1

      I see your point. I still see them as different, strategically, but I guess that's because I don't see the IRA as trying remove Britain as a country. Aside from their tactics, they are a classic freedom movement. Hamas, if I remember correctly, says that Israel has no right to exist as a country.

    221. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by meringuoid · · Score: 1
      It's the limeys' indomitable pigheadedness that is the source of all the trouble. They only need to dump Northern Ireland to EIRE; the orangists who live there will then appropriately dealed with by the irish or they will be repatriated to England, where they belong.

      Indomitable pigheadedness, eh? So good of you to provide such a sterling example of what you mean by that. 'Appropriately dealed with'... real classy.

      --
      Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
    222. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I fly about four times a month and I have been in numerous situations identical or worse.

      It isn't every flight that I see something that screams SECURITY RISK, but it is often enough that this is clearly a symptom of a larger issue.

    223. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Phylomo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "[Bunch of junk, trying to draw distinction where none exists to make people feel better about killing each other.]"

      I have to disagree with this. I do think there is a distinction. When talking doesn't work, violence happens. We can't control how violence is used against us, but we can control how we use it against other people. THAT is where the distinction matters. We have to justify to ourselves and, to some degree, the rest of the world that we are reacting appropriately.

    224. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by terjeber · · Score: 1

      A half-pound black powder bomb with steel BBs would be well more than enough

      Rubbish. Timothy McVeigh - 168 people. Typical car bomber at a marked - 20-30 people. These are big bombs. Often in crowded places. Taking down an airliner will be quite different.

    225. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by terjeber · · Score: 1

      blast all bags at once and you have nice explosion

      And somewhere between 1/20th and half of the casualties of one plane crash.

    226. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by SirWhoopass · · Score: 1

      Airbus may not use an AI type approach to interpret the pilot, but the net effect is nearly the same; the pilot attempts a maneuver that the computer prevents. On some occasions (AF447) a faulty sensor gave the computer a bad reading. In others (AF296), the software itself may have caused an undesirable behavior. Or the pilots have had the software in a mode that prevented the maneuver (CAL140). Airbus was a case-study for software liability in my college computer science courses.

    227. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Xaositecte · · Score: 1

      Yo dawg, I heard you like comebacks, so I put some mother in your mother so you can try harder while you try harder.

    228. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by bkr1_2k · · Score: 1

      So pilots aren't allowed to pee? Or get sick for any reason? Let's at least try to be realistic.

      --
      "Growing old is inevitable; growing up is optional."
    229. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by bkr1_2k · · Score: 1

      Ah, perhaps that's the problem then... I've had both confiscated, but I've heard other people haven't... maybe I just look like a terrorist.

      --
      "Growing old is inevitable; growing up is optional."
    230. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by QuantumRiff · · Score: 1

      No, the complete death of a multi-billion dollar industry, and the "jet set" mindset of an entire country. Bomb a checkpoint or two, and see how many people want to travel on business trips anymore...

      --

      What are we going to do tonight Brain?
    231. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by nlaporte · · Score: 1

      Except that you can't carry Bacardi 151 onto a plane, as the document states:

      Alcoholic beverages

      Alcoholic beverages containing 24% or less alcohol are not restricted in checked baggage. Those containing more than 24%, but not more than 70% alcohol in retail packaging are limited to 5 L (1.3 gal.) per person and 5 L (1.3 gal.) per container in checked baggage. Those containing more than 70% alcohol (more than "140 proof") may not be carried onboard passenger-carrying aircraft [emphasis added]. Alcoholic beverages containing 70% or less alcohol are limited to travel size containers (3.4 oz/100ml) through the screening checkpoint.

    232. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Uberbah · · Score: 1

      The Pentagon's not much of a military target, despite being filled with military folk.

      You can't get more "military" than the central command building for said military.

      Also, those hijackers were working in tandem with a plan to kill thousands of civilians, so it's rather disingenuous to list only the Pentagon as a target in that particular example.

      Which is why I was specifically talking about the act of flying a plan into a building, as opposed to Al Queda's overall actions or plan, so you are a rather obtuse individual.

    233. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Uberbah · · Score: 2, Insightful

      What about civilian personnel who make up a large component of the Pentagon staff?

      What about them? They're doing military work in the central military command building. Call them servicemen, call them civilians, call them tofu - they are still a willing part of the military in the central command building for the military.

    234. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Uberbah · · Score: 2, Interesting

      And flying a plane into the WTC?

      I was specifically talking about flying a plane into the Pentagon, but the U.S. military routinely strikes "military and economic targets" when we're bombing other countries. See: Iraq, Kosovo, and Iraq again. Guess what the Pentagon and the World Trade Center qualify as then?

      What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Which is why we should never have engaged in torture and indefinite imprisonment without trial.

      Or is there some further factor that people consider - that WWII was a "real war", but the violence with Osama was somewhat "less" of a war, and therefore targeting civilians was not justified?

      There sure is a factor: American hypocrisy. It's why we have no qualms about bombing "military and economic targets", collateral damage, torture and indefinite imprisonment when we're doing it to others, but scream bloody murder when it's done to us. Look at what the U.S. has done based on the fear and rage of ONE day NINE years ago. Then remember that we've given Iraq and Afghanistan the population equivalent of a 911 every few weeks, or less. Meanwhile we give ourselves backslapping platitudes that sound just like the Soviets that invaded Afghanistan in the 80's.

      And to all you wingnuts with mod points, show me where I'm factually wrong on anything I've said.

    235. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by PhunkySchtuff · · Score: 1

      Adobe Acrobat specifically has a Redaction feature that was included for this exact reason.

      If you use it properly, you hilight the sections of text or images that you want to be redacted and pick the colour you want the covering rectangle to be. Once you apply the redactions, Acrobat removes the text from the page, removes any indexed text that refers to the redacted text (eg in a TOC link) and also offers to remove just about all the metadata in the PDF as well.

      The rectangle that it places over the redacted text is then purely there for visual appeal, there is no text underneath it.

      Once redacted, the text is simply not in the PDF any more, it's gone. You can delete the rectangle but the text is not underneath it. You can't search for the text and you can't find it hidden in the metadata in the PDF either. It is completely gone.

      What's more, this is an incredibly easy way to achieve what you want to do as you just hilight the text and click Redact. No drawing fiddly rectangles or anything like that.

    236. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by alexo · · Score: 1

      Don't know about the IRA but several bombings in Jerusalem followed that pattern (before suicide bombings became fashionable).
      Plant two charges in close proximity, detonate the first, wait for the paramedics and other emergency services to arrive, detonate the second.

    237. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Joe+Snipe · · Score: 1

      By your criteria the TSA is a Government funded terrorist group.

      --
      Sometimes, life itself is sarcasm...
    238. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by StikyPad · · Score: 1

      Good dystopia, bad science. Oxygen doesn't get you high, and euphoric effects are almost certainly attributable to the placebo effect. Further, if calm passengers were the real goal, it would be much easier/cheaper to simply depressurize the cabin at high altitude, or fill it with CO2 at low altitude, and let everybody black out. As an added bonus, it would help extinguish any cabin fires rather than potentially contributing to them.

    239. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually nobody should leave the cabin during flight! But if they must, a vestibule with two secure (and airtight) doors would be very thoughtful for the other people on board.

    240. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by QuantumG · · Score: 1

      I upgraded my ticket at a kiosk for a flight. I love the $75 upgrades. :)

      You're the reason why the rest of us get spammed repeatedly by salesmen both in the terminal and on the flight to "upgrade" to a seat that is virtually identical to the one we're in.

      Fuck you.

      --
      How we know is more important than what we know.
    241. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by StikyPad · · Score: 1

      Irritated and reassured are not mutually exclusive. Most people are irritated by medical treatments like chemotherapy or surgery, but reassured by the hope they provide. If you actually talk to your fellow cattle, you'll probably notice that a good portion *like* the (perceived) security, regardless of the irritation it provides.

      Aside from that, perception is reality. If you're perceived as a hard target, an attacker will move on to a softer target. Houses with alarm stickers, for example, are burglarized at the same rate as houses with *actual* alarms, which is about 3 times lower than houses with neither. In that respect, the security dramatics are far from worthless.

    242. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by FishTankX · · Score: 1

      Taking your shoes off was a countermeasure put in place because original X-ray scanners/metal detectors did not reach the shoes. The shoebomber showed the airport security guys that not even the humble shoe was necessarily safe anymore. Thus, the policy of taking off your shoe.

    243. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Fluffeh · · Score: 1

      When I first encountered this I assumed it was a scam to get me to buy my duty-free at Auckland airport.

      I was recently flying back to Australia from Europe. I was also quite surprised at the "no, you cant buy duty free booze and board that plane". I thought it was a safety measure of some sort... blah blah, fine, no cheap booze.

      Sadly, the whole safety element went RIGHT OUT THE WINDOW when the stewards then brought round duty free brochures which you could buy (and I did) spirits and so forth, which were given to you right away, then and there.

      Safety? My ass it's about safety! If it was a "no spirits at ALL on the place" policy, okay, but when you can only buy spirits from their own mobile duty free up and down the isle trolley, it's a farce.

      --
      Moved to http://soylentnews.org/. You are invited to join us too!
    244. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Eil · · Score: 1

      Attacks on military installations and personnel is not terrorism, it's an attack on the military.

      s/attack on the military/act of war/

    245. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      You got that from wikipedia, didn't you? Oddly enough, if you look at the box labeled "chain of command" (on the same page) it says 300 - 1000. Ain't WP:NPOV wonderful?

      I tend to think in Napoleonic terms where a battalion was roughly 500. I didn't realise they'd got so bloated. Gubmint, eh?

      Nonetheless, a commercial jet like a 747 - which IIRC by US law can be commandeered as a troop transport - can carry upwards of 400. This is still an order of magnitude more than 20. So I'll concede that two 20 mm rounds can kill 40 soldiers if they stand in two clumps, or most of a battalion if they're on two planes.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    246. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by sten+ben · · Score: 1
      Thermobaric Weapon

      Put a lot of flammable liquid in a bin, dyed as Coca-Cola in 2 liter bottles (better yet, glass bottles, gotta love shrapnel) with a twin stage explosive in each bottle. This of course requires that the bottles are discarded before the xrays though

      Crap now I'll probably be added to the shit-list as well.

    247. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Uberbah · · Score: 1

      So is overthrowing a democratically elected government.

    248. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Uberbah · · Score: 1

      On what planet?

    249. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by squidinkcalligraphy · · Score: 1

      Umm, I flew from Malaysia to Australia last week, with a good 4.5 L of whiskey in my hand luggage. And the whiskey was cheaper in Malaysia than Melbourne.

      --
      "I think it would be a good idea" Gandhi, on Western Civilisation
    250. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      *TSA adds JimboG to the no-fly list*

    251. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by misexistentialist · · Score: 1

      Planes should be retrofitted with toilets--camping toilets if necessary. Nah, let's be "realistic" instead and make air travel security hellish for tens of millions of passengers instead rather than make suicide hijackings 100% impossible. (Meanwhile in Pakistan 50 operatives have spent 5 years practicing hurdling over food carts. They have become damn good.)

    252. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by mysidia · · Score: 1

      It's a paradoxical situation where we have two true concepts that appear to be contradictory but are not, in actual fact.

      The redacted material has already been made "public", it's just well hidden, such that much of the public doesn't immediately observe it.

      The people who thought they redacted the material successfully, won't have cause to learn they didn't (as evidenced by lack of material appearing online).

      Another real-world example would be professor who re-uses old tests, but nevertheless passes out and lets students keep their completed test/exam sheet after they had been graded.

      That is: every single test is identical every semester, the answers are always the same, and every student receives the same test.

      Let's also say the tests are extremely hard and basically impossible for the average person to pass; the difficulty in formulating the answer is presumed to make it obscure (just like blacking out text is meant to make text obscure).

      Some students may seek out past students and quietly share/obtain past test information (e.g. a research unmasking redacted information to satisfy their own curiosity).

      The professor is blissfully unaware of such practices/quiet past-test-sharing that occur outside the classroom between new students and past-year students.

      Let's say there's no explicit rules against it, the teacher never ordered students not to share their tests with past students, and encouraged students to compare their graded answers with others' anyways.

      It's a senior class, and prof. never imagined people might share such things as scans of past tests, on Facebook, and other social networks.

      Until one day, some babboon from a previous year sneaks into a classroom on the first day of the next semester, and 10 minutes before class starts, posts the answers to all the previous tests (all questions and complete key), on the blackboard, in plain sight.

      The professor walks in... of course now everyone's screwed, because the professor will draw up new tests this go around :)

    253. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by cafeman · · Score: 1

      Eh? I fly into Australia and New Zealand all the time on multiple carriers, and I regularly carry spirits on-board without any issues. I've done so for over a decade now.

      I think you may have been misinformed.

      --
      This is your life, and it's ending one minute at a time.
    254. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by dryeo · · Score: 1

      The IRA's fight is totally different than the Americans went through around 1776. The current Americans are more like the orangists. You went to a different place and conquered and killed the native population just like you did in Eire except you didn't kill most all the Irish and put them in reservations.
      Only difference is that you wanted to be self-governing.

      --
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
    255. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Let's consider the fact that the designated terrorists du jour hold PRISONERS; some for months, if not years. This verges on statehood and transcends the facile quality/identification of mere mayhem-weilding cadres that has been delegated to them by the powers-that-be.

    256. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by MartinSchou · · Score: 1

      Well, my maths are quite a bit off. Forgot that it takes 1,000 cm^3 to make a litre, not just 100. So my suitcase is only about 40 litres. Should still be plenty of explosives.

    257. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by clone53421 · · Score: 1

      Flying a plane into the Pentagon? Not terrorism (though it was for the folks on the plane).

      So, it was terrorism.

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
    258. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Correct, check out the experiment at the 5:00 mark on this video:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyLHbqWEo3s

    259. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by nitro316 · · Score: 0

      That's, um... That's an interesting theory. With a gun barrel between your teeth, you speak only in vowels.

    260. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Reziac · · Score: 1

      So, an attack on a military hospital wouldn't be terrorism??

      --
      ~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
    261. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by ZDRuX · · Score: 1

      But, the people demanded higher security, so they get the illusion of higher security.

      I think you and I both know we were forced to accept the illusion that we wanted better security. I don't think we ever asked for it. I don't think there's anyone in that line waiting for a plane that likes being there.

      --
      The magical number is: 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
    262. Re:Well, at least the rest don't do this. by Mr.+Freeman · · Score: 1

      "but essentially they are just feedback controllers, not much more complicated than the PID ones we all remember from our controls theory classes."

      You have clearly not seen video of that airshow where a pilot crashed into a bunch of trees. He was flying very low with the landing gear down along the runway at a slow speed. He tried to pull up and the computer wouldn't let him because it thought he was trying to land and pulling up wouldn't land the craft.

      Before you call me out, you might want to pull your head out of your ass and learn just what the fuck you're actually talking about rather than assuming I meant "fly by wire" when I mentioned the airbus computers.

      --
      -1 disagree is not a modifier for a reason. -1 troll, flaimbait, redundant, overrated are NOT acceptable substitutes.
  5. ^H is cheaper on ink by syousef · · Score: 4, Funny

    Hey TSA dudes, do your bit for the environment and use ^H like we do on slashdot.

    --
    These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
    1. Re:^H is cheaper on ink by webheaded · · Score: 1

      Is it sad that I read that and tried to delete the word before and figure out what the hell you were trying to say?

      --
      "Those who would sacrifice essential liberties for a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - BenF
    2. Re:^H is cheaper on ink by irondonkey · · Score: 1

      Hopefully not, as I just did the same, and then hoped that you were correcting it.

    3. Re:^H is cheaper on ink by linuxrocks123 · · Score: 1

      Yes, because you should know that ^H only deletes one character. You need ^W if you want to delete a whole word :P

      ---linuxrocks123

      --
      vi ~/.emacs # I'm probably going to Hell for this.
    4. Re:^H is cheaper on ink by poofmeisterp · · Score: 1

      Yes, indeed. But keep in mind that t^Hh^Hi^Hs^H ^Hi^Hs^H w^Ho^Hr^Hs^He^H than this is.^W

      We are living in a fast-paced lifestyle these days. ^H is TRUE(tm)(c)Encryption(r)(sm). Terrorists and homeland snoopers don't have the time or energy to filter \^H!

      Sorry for the long post.^:1,$d

  6. I've always had the greatest confidence in TSA by edwebdev · · Score: 5, Funny

    but must admit that this strikes a blow to their reputation for competence and effectiveness.

    1. Re:I've always had the greatest confidence in TSA by flaptrap · · Score: 1

      John Gilmore (http://www.toad.com/gnu/) could have saved all that trouble suing the TSA all the way to the US Supreme Court to get a look at this document - he should have known that if he had just waited they would have given it to him. 'Outdated copy' - nah, you don't think someone leaked the one they wouldn't show him on purpose just so he could see that there was nothing in it all along?

      Why shouldn't the US Citizens have a right to see how their government works, anyway? Now, I hate being treated like a criminal just so I can take a plane ride, but being told that I do not need to know how the "democracy" works is a lot worse, especially by TSA screeners who are far from being brain surgeons, or even able to design and build the machines they use. I mean, their idea of rocket science involves Bullwinkle - if they really intended to redact with an method that is known to fail, that is.

    2. Re:I've always had the greatest confidence in TSA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Read the parts they attempted to redact. Perhaps those parts will inspire greater confidence.

      [Ha ha! I read them -- they really don't]

    3. Re:I've always had the greatest confidence in TSA by Tetsujin · · Score: 1

      but must admit that this strikes a blow to their reputation for competence and effectiveness.

      There's a reason they're called "Those Stupid Asshats"...

      --
      Bow-ties are cool.
  7. Redaction by A+Guy+From+Ottawa · · Score: 5, Funny

    ttp:cryptomeorgtsa-screeningzip

    The cryptome URL has been redacted. Nothing to see here, move along.

    Sincerely,
    TSA

    --

    using System.Awesome;

    1. Re:Redaction by unitron · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      What, you don't recognize transport transport protocol when you see it?

      The PDF is being delivered by Zip Trucking Company.

      "They're the zippiest!"

      --

      I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.

    2. Re:Redaction by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you managed to be unfunnier than the parent.

    3. Re:Redaction by unitron · · Score: 1

      And so you felt compelled to best us both in that category?

      --

      I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.

  8. wow by ZosX · · Score: 3, Interesting

    CIA Badges look pretty easy to fake......

    1. Re:wow by IndustrialComplex · · Score: 1

      CIA Badges look pretty easy to fake......

      Any badge is easy to fake visually. The rest of the data is very easy to fake until you start getting into the really well designed on-card chips. Everything in between is just a matter of cost.

      But any ID is backed up with a readily accessible database to confirm photos/details and potentially other points of verification (passcodes, etc)

      --
      Out of modpoints but really liked a post? 1BDkF6TtmmeZ3yqXbz9yhdYVqRYnwFoXDj
    2. Re:wow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, no, you should definitely fake a CIA badge.

    3. Re:wow by TheLink · · Score: 1

      > But any ID is backed up with a readily accessible database to confirm photos/details

      No need. Just digitally sign the credentials, photos and other biometrics.

      Stick card in to reader. If the signature is OK, and the card is not on the revocation list (which can be updated daily or monthly depending on how paranoid ;) ), and the pic looks like the person, then the ID is valid.

      --
    4. Re:wow by poofmeisterp · · Score: 1

      No one can beat the $ as a tool to power the best method of spying! :>

  9. Idiots by Dan+East · · Score: 3, Funny

    Idiots. They should have changed the text color to white for the stuff they wanted to hide.

    --
    Better known as 318230.
    1. Re:Idiots by MichaelSmith · · Score: 3, Funny

      You would need to find a way to stop people printing the PDF on to black paper.

    2. Re:Idiots by StuartHankins · · Score: 1

      Umm... I hope you're joking. The PDF spec is well-documented and pulling info out of a document that isn't secured is trivial. One proper method is to use the built-in redaction tools present in Acrobat 9 Pro.

    3. Re:Idiots by 19thNervousBreakdown · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Or just get rid of the white ink WAIT A MINUTE+++ath0
      NO CARRIER

      --
      <xml><I><am><so><damn>Web 2.0</damn></so></am></I></xml>
    4. Re:Idiots by laederkeps · · Score: 1

      There are please-do-not-X flags in PDF for all kinds of funny things, like "do not save form data" or "do not copy text" and so on. I could totally see the TSA requesting a please-do-not-print-on-black-media flag and having Adobe honor it in Acrobat...

    5. Re:Idiots by Kral_Blbec · · Score: 1

      whoosh...

    6. Re:Idiots by MichaelSmith · · Score: 1

      Which leaves me with strings.

    7. Re:Idiots by StuartHankins · · Score: 1

      One has only to read the summary to see that seemingly obvious things aren't obvious to everyone.

      Who knows, maybe Dan East is working for the Feds and thinks this is a tech support line.

    8. Re:Idiots by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Black paper? I can't think of anything more sinister sounding. Let people use black paper, track who is buying that shit, and just arrest them. You'll catch the terrorists, or at least some goth kids.

    9. Re:Idiots by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Umm... I hope you're joking.

      On behalf of the GP, allow me to assuage your fears thusly: whoosh!

    10. Re:Idiots by Tom · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Don't worry, they'll lobby a law against that. Problem solved. Right? RIGHT?

      --
      Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
    11. Re:Idiots by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wooosh...

    12. Re:Idiots by petermgreen · · Score: 1

      and pulling it out of a pdf that is "secured" but with a blank user password is only slightly less trivial.

      pdf user restictions only prevent the most casual of extraction attempts.

      --
      note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
    13. Re:Idiots by poofmeisterp · · Score: 1

      I'm busy. I don't have a minute. *snip*

    14. Re:Idiots by poofmeisterp · · Score: 1

      Absolutely!

      I'm proud to be an American with my tax dollars at work. Wait, I'm unemployed.

      I shouldn't have even responded. My bad.

  10. Don't click! by CaroKann · · Score: 1

    How do you know this isn't some kind of trap, a honeypot to track down all of you nosy busybodies?

    1. Re:Don't click! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      There is information even within misinformation.

    2. Re:Don't click! by magarity · · Score: 1

      That's what your neighbor's open WAP is for.

    3. Re:Don't click! by headhot · · Score: 1

      The TSA can find a gun in a back pack, how are they going to track down busybodies.

    4. Re:Don't click! by poofmeisterp · · Score: 1

      'cuz the government sucks at managing money. Internet access is cheap, and they use the comments on Slashdot to find solutions without hiring a large group of technical analysis specialists and legal reviewers that cost a l

      Wait, they just hired them. Never mind.

  11. Worst. Link. Ever. by hedronist · · Score: 0, Redundant

    So is kdawson on drugs? Is s/he not on drugs but should be? Does s/he even know what the intertubes are? Can we find peace in our time? Or, horny as we are, can we even find a piece in our time? If we found a piece would we find peace?

    So many questions ....

  12. Can the mirrors please by shermo · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Dammit. The mirrored files have the highlighting taken out so I don't know where the juicy bits are in the document.

    Can someone mirror it with the highlighting left in?

    --
    Insanity: voting in the same two parties over and over again and expecting different results
    1. Re:Can the mirrors please by marcansoft · · Score: 1

      Try reading the first page of the "de-redacted" file. It has the URL to the original.

  13. TSA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Why so little context in the description of this article?
    From a quick google around.. it seems that the TSA referred to here is a US government agency of some sort - Transport Security Administration.
    Perhaps it's assumed around here that almost every TLA from the USA is of global significance and widely understood.

    1. Re:TSA? by MichaelSmith · · Score: 1

      The TSA has long been a source of hilarity around here.

      (I am an Australian BTW).

    2. Re:TSA? by mjwx · · Score: 1

      The TSA has long been a source of hilarity around here.

      (I am an Australian BTW).

      Something has happened with AQIS officers here though. About three weeks ago I got back to Perth at 12:30 in the morning and the customs official was helpful and polite.

      They seemed particularly happy about these new machines that scanned your passport and took your photo automatically if you've got a new Australian passport (one with the chip). Only a government worker could be happy about their job being replaced by a machine.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    3. Re:TSA? by MichaelSmith · · Score: 1

      I won't get to use those machines until 2015. For me its a bit like the automated checkouts at Big-W and Ikea. They place a high reliance on honesty. My son has the new RFID passport. Maybe I will send him though alone the next time we travel. He is 7. That should be old enough.

    4. Re:TSA? by amRadioHed · · Score: 5, Funny

      Since when has global significance been a requirement for slashdot articles? Half the time significance isn't even a requirement.

      --
      We hope your rules and wisdom choke you / Now we are one in everlasting peace
    5. Re:TSA? by GumphMaster · · Score: 1

      There's some reliance on honesty... but the automated gates don't open if it doesn't get a good chip read or the face metrics it is expecting: then a Customs officer wanders over. Happened to me the first time, hasn't happened since, and I haven't changed my appearance in between. Perhaps I didn't look rat-arsed enough after arriving back from St Louis via LA so the machinery thought I was suspicious.

      --
      Patent litigation: A doctrine of Mutually Assured Destruction... in which everyone seems willing to push the button
    6. Re:TSA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, it's an American website.

    7. Re:TSA? by gmhowell · · Score: 1

      Only a government worker could be happy about their job being replaced by a machine.

      Or, perhaps, the people were happy because this system would be more effective than the current manual system, which makes it better for everyone.

      Believe it or not, there are people whose motivations are not as selfish as your own.

      --
      Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
    8. Re:TSA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's an American website, silly. Plenty of stuff refers to the NSA, FBI, and CIA.

      Global significance. Lol.

    9. Re:TSA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You seem a bit indignant that Slashdot was founded by Americans, is hosted in America, and is most likely frequented by a large host of American users, and has a large proportion of its posts pertain to American issues.

    10. Re:TSA? by PhilHibbs · · Score: 3, Informative

      From the FAQ:

      Q: Slashdot seems to be very U.S.-centric. Do you have any plans to be more international in your scope?

      A: Slashdot is U.S.-centric. We readily admit this, and really don't see it as a problem. Slashdot is run by Americans, after all, and the vast majority of our readership is in the U.S. We're certainly not opposed to doing more international stories, but we don't have any formal plans for making that happen. All we can really tell you is that if you're outside the U.S. and you have news, submit it, and if it looks interesting, we'll post it.

      It is worth noting that there is a Japanese Slashdot run by VA Japan. While we helped them a little in their early days, they essentially run their own content without any real involvement from us... none of us can read Kanji! There are currently no plans to do other language or nation specific Slashdot sites.

    11. Re:TSA? by Fnord666 · · Score: 1

      Since when has global significance been a requirement for slashdot articles? Half the time significance isn't even a requirement.

      The simple explanation?

      Posted by kdawson on Tuesday December 08, @12:03AM

      --
      'The tyrant will always find pretext for his tyranny.' - Aesop's Fables
    12. Re:TSA? by npsimons · · Score: 1

      Half the time significance isn't even a requirement.

      Thankfully. Can you imagine what slashdot in the early days would have been like if they went by Wikipedia's "notability guidelines"? "Pfft, Linux, that's not notable, delete all articles about it.".

    13. Re:TSA? by kwerle · · Score: 1

      Half the time significance isn't even a requirement.

      Half? Where is this wonderful version of slashdot you have access to?

    14. Re:TSA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      People like you really make me wish I could mod comments -1 Stupid.

    15. Re:TSA? by mjwx · · Score: 1

      Giant Whoosh.

      Believe it or not there are people with a sense of humour which is not as lacking as your own.

      PSSSST. it was a joke.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    16. Re:TSA? by gmhowell · · Score: 1

      Not a particularly good joke, and far too close to sentiments espoused by the Randroids around here.

      --
      Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
    17. Re:TSA? by mjwx · · Score: 1

      Maybe you need to be Australian to understand it fully. But then again we cant all be perfect now can we.

      P.S. In Australia we regard libertarians (anarchistic capitalism) as mentally deficient. In the same league as fascists (police state capitalism), communists (police state socialism) and agrarian socialists (anarchistic socialism).

      P.P.S. I'm Australian and so is the GGP, so some cultural references are going to go over some peoples heads.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
  14. why are they so scared about xray monitors? by SuperBanana · · Score: 2, Interesting

    photographing EDS or ETD monitor screens or emitted images is not permitted. [...] Whenever possible, x-ray machine images must not be visible to the public or press. When physical constraints prevent x-ray images from being fully protected from public viewing, TSOs must ensure no member of the public or press is in a position to observe an x-ray monitor for an extended period of time. Passengers and other unauthorized individuals must not be allowed to view EDS or ETD monitors and screens.

    Huh. Now...why would that be?

    First guess, they don't want the "terrorists" to see how good/bad the x-ray devices are.

    Second more cynical guess: Xray machines are mostly useless and the TSA doesn't want the public to realize it's a bunch of voodoo?

    1. Re:why are they so scared about xray monitors? by frdmfghtr · · Score: 4, Insightful

      First guess, they don't want the "terrorists" to see how good/bad the x-ray devices are.

      Second more cynical guess: Xray machines are mostly useless and the TSA doesn't want the public to realize it's a bunch of voodoo?

      Perhaps it a privacy concern between whomever owns the bag being scanned and other members of the public.

      --
      Government's idea of a balanced budget: take money from the right pocket to balance...oh who am I kidding?
    2. Re:why are they so scared about xray monitors? by sapphire+wyvern · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I think the policy is probably supposed to prevent other passengers in the queue from deriving entertainment from the contents of other passenger's luggage (gee, check out the 12" dildo and handcuffs in that businessman's briefcase!)

      Guess they wouldn't want to be sued for revealing someone's dirty-but-legal secrets....

    3. Re:why are they so scared about xray monitors? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      i've actually seen them call over other "officers" when they had a bag up on the screen that had a vibrator or dildo in it so they could all have a chuckle

    4. Re:why are they so scared about xray monitors? by nedlohs · · Score: 1

      They aren't very good that.

      I flew out of Newark yesterday and the three xray monitors for the xray scanner on the lane next to me was in plain site (and I would guess the other ones were in plain site for people in the other lanes - except the first lane they miss out). And since it took 15 minutes to get through every single passenger in line got to watch it for 15 minutes. It's easy to circle back for another pass through security, pick a different line if you think they might recognize you (but they won't anyway - at least not unless they review the security camera video later).

    5. Re:why are they so scared about xray monitors? by girlintraining · · Score: 1

      Second more cynical guess: Xray machines are mostly useless and the TSA doesn't want the public to realize it's a bunch of voodoo?

      The exact specifications and design limits of the machine is classified for a reason -- pictures of the operating parts give clues as to what those criterion might be. If you had photographs of the insides of the equipment you could infer the strength of the x-ray source and the resolution of the scanner, and from that you might figure out that, for example, #40 AWG wire wouldn't be visible if run it along a fiberglass housing. Or that the machine's stepper motors are only capable of moving the plates to a finite number of angles. Those are handy things to know if you wanted to get a prohibited item/device (or its components) past the scanner.

      It should also be pointed out that these machines have a variety of image filters and enhancements that can be selected by the operator. The interactions between these standard operating modes and the device's limitations not being fully understood by the operator (because frankly, the training is not very technical) could be exploited.

      Conclusion: It's not only a reasonable, but highly prudent, security measure.

      --
      #fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
    6. Re:why are they so scared about xray monitors? by pete-classic · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's almost certainly to prevent test runs.

      Suppose you're a religious fundamentalist wack-job who thinks your God wants you to kill people who aren't following his rules. You'd probably have ideas about ways to get certain things on the plane*. (And you'd probably just do it.)

      Now, imagine you're some white-bread, middle aged man from the Midwest with a wife, a couple of kids, and a dog. Suppose it's you're job to stop Mr. Wack-job. You'd probably think in terms of what you'd have on the line if you went up against Uncle Sam. And you'd probably suppose that he'd want to do some test runs with indifferent items with similar physical characteristics to the naughty items. But, because the test items would be neither dangerous nor prohibited, you couldn't count on security indicating that they saw the items.

      Mr. Wack-job would gain much more information if he could watch the monitor for signs of his test items while an accomplice ran them through security.

      -Peter

      * I can think of several such items and approaches (and probable counter-measures, and possible counter-counter-measures), but I will keep them to myself so as to avoid any risk of giving the impression that I condone such behavior.

    7. Re:why are they so scared about xray monitors? by hitmark · · Score: 1

      jepp, just note the amount of noise over milimeter wave, and its ability to scan people down to the skin.

      the corps making them have to put in routines to fade out the "naughty bits"...

      and based on that, you know where the next terrorist will hide that ceramic blade...

      --
      comment first, facts later. http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/RelativityofWrong.htm
    8. Re:why are they so scared about xray monitors? by hitmark · · Score: 1

      reminds me of a comic i read, where some female security personnel would crank the metal detector sensitivity to 11 when a choice man showed up...

      --
      comment first, facts later. http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/RelativityofWrong.htm
    9. Re:why are they so scared about xray monitors? by girlintraining · · Score: 2, Interesting

      reminds me of a comic i read, where some female security personnel would crank the metal detector sensitivity to 11 when a choice man showed up...

      You think that's a joke? Portable breathalizers can be made to give false positives by chirping the radio while the suspect exhales. The TSA just makes the job of making an excuse a whole lot easier: Push the button. You don't need any reason beyond "seemed suspicious." Other kinds of security personnel need to manufacture a reason first. :\

      --
      #fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
    10. Re:why are they so scared about xray monitors? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You don't think it's valid to not want potential smugglers to know what has contrast in a bag? Or what parts of a circuit board are visible in an x-ray machine?

      I suspect that information is not readily available (at least not in detail), and would help me disguise something a great deal to know if I was so inclined.

      This one, I think is actually not stupid.

    11. Re:why are they so scared about xray monitors? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The policy is never to imply ownership of the dildo. It is always the dildo, never YOUR dildo.

    12. Re:why are they so scared about xray monitors? by Dr+Damage+I · · Score: 1
      --
      "Cursed is he who rises early in the morning..." Isiah 5:11
    13. Re:why are they so scared about xray monitors? by mr_gorkajuice · · Score: 1

      What's exactly is the difference between your first and second guess?

    14. Re:why are they so scared about xray monitors? by Chief+Camel+Breeder · · Score: 1

      Third guess: X-ray machines are very good at finding weapons in luggage unless said luggage is carefully arranged to confuse the view. To get the right arrangement you'd have to study some of the radiograms to see what worked.

      Personal experience supports this. My laptop back-pack, which is full of cables, chargers and peripherals, usually goes through security unchallenged, except when it gets jumbled such that the security person can't work out what they're seeing; then they search. I often get a look at the screen while I'm waiting for it to come through (screens not concealed in most European airports). When it passes, I can identify my stuff. When it's searched, I can't.

      This may be one of the rare, non-theatrical parts of the operation. But I still don't see why this particular regulation was redacted.

    15. Re:why are they so scared about xray monitors? by Nevynxxx · · Score: 1

      Perhaps they don't want Joe Schmo running around screaming "oh Christ he's got a gun" when they see a funny shape they shouldn't?

    16. Re:why are they so scared about xray monitors? by rfelsburg · · Score: 1

      Having actually left a pocket knife in my carry on, I was quite surprised that they did in fact find it. It was buried at the bottom of the bag, under a bunch of electronics. I was always under the impression that the x-rays were just eye-candy, however this last experience has actually made me wonder about the usefulness of them, as they no longer seem inept/useless to me. Just my thoughts, -Rob

  15. Use what they give you! by adamchou · · Score: 5, Informative

    How stupid are these people?! Adobe even has a feature to redact (not draw black boxes) text from documents

    1. Re:Use what they give you! by irondonkey · · Score: 2, Funny

      This is government. As far as stupidity is concerned, they go to 11.

    2. Re:Use what they give you! by narcberry · · Score: 1

      What if I need stupid served after 11?

      --
      Modding me -1 troll doesn't make me wrong.
    3. Re:Use what they give you! by hitmark · · Score: 1

      maybe they cant afford a upgrade?

      --
      comment first, facts later. http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/RelativityofWrong.htm
    4. Re:Use what they give you! by Uberbah · · Score: 2, Insightful

      People are stupid, corrupt and incompetent. How is your Enron stock doing these days?

    5. Re:Use what they give you! by dkf · · Score: 1

      What if I need stupid served after 11?

      That's what slashdot trolls are for.

      --
      "Little does he know, but there is no 'I' in 'Idiot'!"
    6. Re:Use what they give you! by ArsonSmith · · Score: 1

      As good as the government regulations allowed it to do.

      --
      Paying taxes to buy civilization is like paying a hooker to buy love.
    7. Re:Use what they give you! by poofmeisterp · · Score: 1

      Pay more in taxes.

      Come on, that was right there. I had to. ;)

    8. Re:Use what they give you! by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 1

      I'm sorry, sir, we're only serving lunch items now.

  16. CIA Redactions by Katchu · · Score: 1

    Reminds me of the story about CIA Redactions--that in reality they use black highlighers for the important stuff.

    --
    Keep Doing Good.
    1. Re:CIA Redactions by unitron · · Score: 4, Funny

      You just gave me a mental image of some TSA bureaucrat sitting at his computer putting black magic marker lines on the CRT screen as he reviews the PDF.

      --

      I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.

    2. Re:CIA Redactions by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This reminds me of the Dilbert comic where the PHB tapes postage to his computer monitor when he sends e-mail. I can't find the link, though, shucks...

    3. Re:CIA Redactions by Mister+Fright · · Score: 1

      That better be a dry erase marker. Using a permanent magic marker would be stupid.

      I totally had the same image in my head. "There. Now no one can read it. Let's put it on the internets!"

    4. Re:CIA Redactions by SydShamino · · Score: 1

      Remember that the TSA came into being in the 2000s with a massive influx of funds, not the 1990s....

      .

      . ....they mark up LCD screens, not CRTs.

      --
      It doesn't hurt to be nice.
    5. Re:CIA Redactions by DavidTC · · Score: 1

      If it's a dry erase marker, the people on the internet could erase it!

      --
      If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
  17. Sloppy Slashdot editors... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sloppy Slashdot editors...

    1. Re:Sloppy Slashdot editors... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sloppy Slashdot editors...

      Sloppy? I thought the move of not quite facilitating the spreading of state secrets was a pretty cute move actually.

  18. Pehaps intentional? by a+whoabot · · Score: 2

    From what I can tell, some of the information which was poorly blacked out could be helpful to people who want to get things/persons past security.

    However, that is under the assumption that the information is accurate. Perhaps this information is just misleading and the file was poorly blacked out so that people would crack it and assume that it is accurate.

    Maybe one way to find out: Does anyone can fired or demoted for this? If not...maybe because it was intentional after all.

    1. Re:Pehaps intentional? by MaXintosh · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Slashdotters are fond of pointing out that you should never ascribe to malice what you can ascribe to incompetence.

    2. Re:Pehaps intentional? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      After some time you realise that you cannot give government agencies too little credit. They're just not smart enough to pull off a fake.

  19. Silly by QuoteMstr · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Here are typical examples of redacted paragraphs:

    Ensure TSOs do not handle explosives, incendiaries, or weapons if such items are discovered during the screening process.

    D. Whenever a Threat Image Projection (TIP) enabled x-ray is unable to detect 28-gauge wire at Step 10 on the Test Step Wedge, discontinue use. The STSO must immediately notify TSA management.

    An airport assigned LEO (if available), STSO, or designated TSA representative clears the individual after inspecting his or her badge, credential, and Government-issued photo ID, and if flying, his or her boarding pass and Notice of LEO Flying Armed Document.

    Aircraft operator flight crewmembers in uniform, with valid aircraft operator employee identification, are
    exempt from the Unpredictable Screening Process and restrictions involving liquids, gels, aerosols, and footwear. Aircraft operator flight crewmembers in uniform, designated as selectees, are not exempt from the requirements regarding liquids, gels, aerosols, or footwear. Any alarm of the aircraft operator flight crewmember's person or accessible property must be cleared.

    On what planet is it necessary to keep facts like these secret?

    1. Re:Silly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, you know, we're talking about the same agency that forbids videography of the screening processes. The same processes that the general public has to go through hundreds of thousands of times a day... Every time we go through the checkpoints..

    2. Re:Silly by IndustrialComplex · · Score: 3, Interesting

      On what planet is it necessary to keep facts like these secret?

      Is it necessary to reveal them in this manner, or would the interest of the public be served by simply knowing that:

      1. TSOs follow a procedure when explosives are discovered
      2. X-rays have a test procedure
      3. Only certain personnel are allowed to clear indivudals
      4. Aircrew are subjected to modified screening procedures.

      Is it relevant to know the details of those items? If it was related to my FOIA request, perhaps, but I think we should keep in mind that an open government doesn't require fully open records to meet the spirit of an open government.

      If I somehow needed a database from a military hospital for a court case I was involved in, I would hope that any patient records would be anonymized if they weren't necessary for the trial.

      Just as we don't necessarily need to know the exact metrics which cause an x-ray machine to fail an inspection unless we were specifically interested in the testing procedures of x-ray machines.

      --
      Out of modpoints but really liked a post? 1BDkF6TtmmeZ3yqXbz9yhdYVqRYnwFoXDj
    3. Re:Silly by unitron · · Score: 1

      Don't you understand? The terrorists are all changing all of the 28 gauge wire on all of their suitcase bombs to 30 gauge wire even as we speak!

      --

      I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.

    4. Re:Silly by nacturation · · Score: 1

      More likely it's things like the fact that they don't require prosthetic limbs to be screened. If the terr'rists knew that, we'd have them terr'rists wearing prosthetic legs that had C4 in them.

      --
      Want to improve your Karma? Instead of "Post Anonymously", try the "Post Humously" option.
    5. Re:Silly by magarity · · Score: 1

      we're talking about the same agency that forbids videography of the screening processes
       
      The PDF says they are to allow photographs and video of the screening as long as it doesn't get in the way of the people working and you don't get the camera on the xray machines' screens.

    6. Re:Silly by amRadioHed · · Score: 1

      I hate to defend the TSA, but did you even look at the PDF?

      2.7. PHOTOGRAPHING, VIDEOTAPING, AND FILMING SCREENING LOCATIONS
      A. TSA does not prohibit the public, passengers, or press from photographing, videotaping, or filming
      screening locations unless the activity interferes with a TSO’s ability to perform his or her duties or
      prevents the orderly flow of individuals through the screening location.

      --
      We hope your rules and wisdom choke you / Now we are one in everlasting peace
    7. Re:Silly by amRadioHed · · Score: 1

      Or they could just attach C4 to their non-prosthetic limbs. I don't see what difference the prosthesis would make.

      --
      We hope your rules and wisdom choke you / Now we are one in everlasting peace
    8. Re:Silly by hitmark · · Score: 1

      all those 3-4 letter "words" makes it sound like some telco internal manual...

      --
      comment first, facts later. http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/RelativityofWrong.htm
    9. Re:Silly by sjames · · Score: 1

      Is it relevant to know the details of those items? If it was related to my FOIA request, perhaps, but I think we should keep in mind that an open government doesn't require fully open records to meet the spirit of an open government.

      Government that has always claimed to be open but rarely actually has been DOES require fully open records since they have already proven repeatedly that given access to a dark corner to hide atrocities in, they will do just that.

    10. Re:Silly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think it's this they're more worried about...

      An FFDO in possession of an FFDO firearm must be permitted to pass beyond the
      screening checkpoint without inspection of his or her person and accessible property upon presentation of
      bona fide credentials and aircraft operator photo ID. FFDOs are required to show only their credentials
      and aircraft operator ID.

    11. Re:Silly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      More relevant, I think, is that knowing the exact calibration thresholds for the xray machines; which aircrew uniforms are exempted from screenings, etc might allow terrorists/malcontents to adjust their smuggling/terrorism plans to better avoid or circumvent those protection.

      While this *IS* unquestionably a form of security through obscurity, I can clearly see whey a security force would want to prevent this information being public.

      (EG, knowing that the sensitivity cut-off for wire is 28 gauge, one could substitute say-- 36 gauge wire in their bomb instead, because that would be too thin to be reliably detected, and may pass right through inspection unnoticed.)

      Or, in the case of a suicide bomber, knowing which aircrew uniforms to procure prior to the operation to avoid being detained and searched by the airport security personnel could be very handy.

      Essentially, they wanted to "black box" the details of their security protocols, to make them harder to target for circumvention. (No puns about the ineffective redaction intended)

    12. Re:Silly by jibster · · Score: 1
      How about this as a reasonable explanation?

      The TSA, like all government oganisations, is a bureaucratic behemoth which is built on Standard Operating Proceedures.

      SOPs are written by people with no training in writing. The SOPs are used by persons with absolutly no understanding of the underlying meaning of the SOP.

      In this case we have an SOP for releasing documents to the public that may or may not have originated in the TSA but is being interpreted by TSA employees.

      Let me take each of your examples in turn:

      1. TSOs follow a procedure when explosives are discovered

      SOP contains a section that says you must not reveal our proceedures for reacting to terrorists

      2. X-rays have a test procedure

      You must not reveal technicial details of test equipment including calibration proceedures.

      3. Only certain personnel are allowed to clear indivudals

      I haven't got a clue about this one, maybe the same as the next?

      4. Aircrew are subjected to modified screening procedures.

      You must not reveal the methods we use for sampling passengers lest the terrorist learn how to work the system.

      Because the person applying the SOP does not understand the intention of the instructions in the document they feel they must apply it in the broadest strokes and so you get really silly applications.

    13. Re:Silly by R3d+M3rcury · · Score: 2, Funny

      Or my personal favorite:

      If designated by the FSD, inspect the credentials of LEOs, LEOs escorting prisoners, Federal Flight Deck Officers (FFDOs), Federal Air Marshals (FAMs), credentialed TSA employees flying with a working canine, and U.S. Government employees required to fly armed in order to clear them through the screening checkpoint.

      The bolding is from the original, which is why the whole "credentialed TSA employees flying with a working canine" caught my eye.

      A working canine?

      1. This is a good thing. After all, unemployed canines could disrupt a flight. But does the canine also have to have some idea to show it's gainfully employed? Does it have to be employed by the TSA? Can an employee show up with Jilli?
      2. Do TSA employees show up with broken canines?

      The mind reels...

    14. Re:Silly by ghostdoc · · Score: 1

      It's so you don't know what you don't know.

      Redacting just the properly secret bits would give you too much of an idea about what is secret, and that would allow you to make educated guesses about what the secret bits maybe are.

      Redacting the secrtet bits plus a random selection of paragraphs prevents you from guessing the secret bits.

      But I'm just guessing here ;)

      --
      Business/App ideas are like arseholes: everyone's got one, they're mostly shit, but very rarely they contain a diamond
    15. Re:Silly by EMN13 · · Score: 1

      Locations, not processes; not all processes are open to such taping.

    16. Re:Silly by steronz · · Score: 2, Informative

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Working_dog

      The only question is why they replaced "dog" with the snootier "canine," but the sentences parses just the same. /Buzz Killington

    17. Re:Silly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well #4 is important... what if some religious zealots decided to crash an airplane into an abortion clinic?

      Oh wait, a fair chunk of the politics are those kinds of religious zealots, they just would prefer to see their wife and kids again.

    18. Re:Silly by MikeD83 · · Score: 1

      What's funny about redacting the aircraft operator flight crew exemption is that the public actually sees this happen. I was at a security checkpoint waiting to put by bag into the X-ray machine when a pilot jumped in front of me. He didn't take his shoes off and walked though the metal detector with his Starbuck's coffee with no questions asked. I was irate! First, these folks get to jump the line, then they're not subject to the security policies. What's to prevent a member of the aircrew from turning into a terrorist?

      I guess I'm in line for security theater... and I'm not entertained.

    19. Re:Silly by khallow · · Score: 1

      On what planet is it necessary to keep facts like these secret?

      As a clarification, this is "sensitive information" not "classified information". There's no regulation on or penalty for regular people to know or distribute this information. The idea is that certain information, like the current working procedures of airline passenger screeners, should not be common knowledge easily available (on the internet, newspapers, etc). Thus, employees are not allowed to talk about it to others. You can still pick up this information by standing in line. It's meant to be a hurdle making terrorists work a bit harder rather than some impermeable barrier.

    20. Re:Silly by SWPadnos · · Score: 1

      Well, most of it is stupid, but as an example, I now know that if I want to create an explosive device, I need to use smaller than 28 gauge wire - so I should stick to 30 or, just to be safe, 36-gauge.

      --
      - The Sigless Wonder
    21. Re:Silly by Zerth · · Score: 1

      The ones I found most interesting are where they instruct them to mark the boarding pass in a way that indicates the person carrying it can breeze through security as an unchecked selectee.

      I hope this is different at every airport, but I have a feeling that it isn't different and that TSA employees carry pens with them when they fly so they can mark themselves exempt.

    22. Re:Silly by poofmeisterp · · Score: 1

      On what planet is it necessary to keep facts like these secret?

      Assuming that this information is accurate (what you posted), it is simple to see that this is YET ANOTHER case of "making people feel good."

      The "selectees" are designated to be searched so that the "people" feel comfortable that everyone is being screened. Um, except for the flight crew members. That may be up to no good. Or drunk. Who knows?

      You'll know when you take that flight.

      That doesn't scare me. If you do the math, the probability of being in one of the dangerous flights where terrorist activity is induced is minimal. If I happen to be on one of those flights where a pilot decides to take the plane down using something in an aerosol bottle, that's how I'll die. You know, after I wake up tomorrow morning, a truck could skid off the road and crash into the building I live in and kill me. What are the odds? Next to nil.

      People are always freaked. Logic and reason is beyond the capacity of most people these days. That's unfortunate.

    23. Re:Silly by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 1

      A working canine?

      One assumes that the TSA does hire the blind. Not discriminating is part of the ADA, after all.

    24. Re:Silly by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 1

      Strapping C4 to a real limb would produce a noticeable bulge. An artificial limb could have C4 *inside* it, making it much less obvious. Real limbs are rather short of hollow spaces to stick stuff into.

    25. Re:Silly by amRadioHed · · Score: 1

      You could hide a lot under baggy pants. Certainly enough to do critical damage to a plane.

      --
      We hope your rules and wisdom choke you / Now we are one in everlasting peace
    26. Re:Silly by Malibee · · Score: 1

      Clear the sloppy attempts at redacting were a ruse--the real intention was to identify persons capable of noticing and publishing this information, or commenting on it. I'm sure all you people poking holes in the TSA security theatre are already on the Watch List and will get extra-strict screening next time you fly.

    27. Re:Silly by IndustrialComplex · · Score: 1

      While this *IS* unquestionably a form of security through obscurity, I can clearly see whey a security force would want to prevent this information being public.

      Eventually almost all security relies on elements of obscurity. In the real world, it is pretty much impossible to provide total security.

      To someone who disagrees that obscurity is important, I'll ask you this,

      "Should we remove the dark glass domes and one way mirrors that cover security cameras?"

      --
      Out of modpoints but really liked a post? 1BDkF6TtmmeZ3yqXbz9yhdYVqRYnwFoXDj
    28. Re:Silly by clone53421 · · Score: 1

      Haven’t you ever heard of an off-duty officer?

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
  20. As effective as the rest of the TSA by BrianRoach · · Score: 3, Funny

    Why is the fact that their redacting technique is as useful and effective as their screening techniques surprising to anyone?

    TSA, bringing you the best in security theatre since 2001!

    1. Re:As effective as the rest of the TSA by Anarchduke · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Especially when part of the redaction specifically talks about TSA Field Intelligence agents. Since when does the TSA have field intelligence agents???

      --
      who prays for Satan? Who in 18 centuries has had the humanity to pray for the 1 sinner that needed it most? ~Mark Twain
  21. Small Arms Ammunition allowed? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This wasn't blacked out or anything, but I had to laugh a bit if you look under 'Hazardous Materials Reference Document'

    "Ammunition, small arms Small arms ammunition (up to 50-caliber cartridges
    or 8-gauge shells) for personal use may be carried in checked baggage if securely
    packed in boxes or packaging specifically designed for carrying ammunition. No
    loaded firearms permitted in checked baggage"

    I had to re-read that and was like err.. wait a minute... 50-caliber? Wow, that's allowed? Yet will freak out over a bottle of shampoo, huh? rofl ...

    1. Re:Small Arms Ammunition allowed? by Trolan · · Score: 1

      Key words there: "checked baggage."

      They limit liquid/gel capacity only on carry-ons, not checked bags. You could throw a couple gallons of liquids in your checked bags and they'd be "ok" with it. You can bring alot of otherwise restricted items in your checked bags.

    2. Re:Small Arms Ammunition allowed? by thewils · · Score: 1

      The liquid/gel limit is completely stupid. Are they saying 100ml (or whatever the amount is) is OK, but 200ml isn't? Well if 2 people being 100ml then they have 200ml if they add it together. If 10 people each have 100ml then they have a litre of the stuff. What's the point in the limit?

      --
      Once I was a four stone apology. Now I am two separate gorillas.
    3. Re:Small Arms Ammunition allowed? by basketcase · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Actually, flying with a checked and properly declared firearm is a great way to keep your stuff safe. You are required by federal law to use locks that the TSA can't open so you don't have to worry about them stealing stuff from your case.

    4. Re:Small Arms Ammunition allowed? by Yosho · · Score: 1

      You are required by federal law to use locks that the TSA can't open

      Wait, are you serious? That's the best arguement for gun ownership I've ever heard. I don't even own a handgun, but now I'm going to have to go see what I have to go through to get one so that I can keep the TSA from rifling through my luggage...

      --
      Karma: Terrifying (mostly affected by atrocities you've committed)
    5. Re:Small Arms Ammunition allowed? by basketcase · · Score: 1

      Flare guns count too. Plus they are unregulated in every state. Their ammo is not allowed though.

      This guy has some good info: http://deviating.net/firearms/packing/

    6. Re:Small Arms Ammunition allowed? by Yosho · · Score: 1

      Wow, that's great. I think I'll have to go get a flare gun as an early Christmas present for myself...

      --
      Karma: Terrifying (mostly affected by atrocities you've committed)
  22. If you think this is incompetence by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just wait until they try their hand at Healthcare.

  23. The TSA redacting process by MosesJones · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This clearly comes from the people who thought up my favourite piece of brain dead "security" from the TSA

    When you enter the line to the security gate a TSA numpty checks your boarding pass to make sure you are allowed to join the line. Everyone joining the line has their boarding pass checked, this is a piece of paper often printed on a computer that says what flight you are on, its just about the easiest thing to fake in the history of fakery.

    Then you lob everything into the x-ray machine, clearly needing to separate your laptop out as clearly its impossible to see stuff through that. Shoes of course, belts, internal organs...

    Then as you step through the body scanner some TSA numpty says "boarding pass please". Pointing out that you've just put all your crap through the machine and that your boarding pass is with your passport and your wallet is of course pointless. The answer... wait until it comes out of the machine and then show the numpty. you are of course also checked at the gate with both passport (hard to fake) and boarding pass (trivial to fake).

    So in otherwords the TSA check TWICE a piece of easy to fake information and NEVER check your ruddy passport.

    So how did the TSA redact this PDF. Well simple they had the same process. The first person pasted on the black squares. This was then printed out.

    The first checker then looked at the printed out copy and said "looks fine to me"

    This document was then scanned in and then printed again to be checked by a second checker who said "yup all okay"

    And then they put the ORIGINIAL electronic copy on line with the pasting over the top.

    The TSA is to security what Micheal Vick is to Pet Care

    --
    An Eye for an Eye will make the whole world blind - Gandhi
    1. Re:The TSA redacting process by nacturation · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The TSA is to security what Micheal Vick is to Pet Care

      Slashdot should have a facility to nominate quotes like this for a Slashdot Hall of Fame.

      --
      Want to improve your Karma? Instead of "Post Anonymously", try the "Post Humously" option.
    2. Re:The TSA redacting process by irondonkey · · Score: 2

      Motion seconded.

    3. Re:The TSA redacting process by supersat · · Score: 2, Informative

      I suspect the boarding pass check is primarily to keep the TSA from being overwhelmed by people not flying, such as family members waiting for you to arrive. Using it for any other purpose (including identifying selectees) is pretty pointless until they actually validate the boarding pass. They're slowly starting to do this, but it's a long process.

    4. Re:The TSA redacting process by MosesJones · · Score: 1

      I suspect the boarding pass check is primarily to keep the TSA from being overwhelmed by people not flying, such as family members waiting for you to arrive. Using it for any other purpose (including identifying selectees) is pretty pointless until they actually validate the boarding pass. They're slowly starting to do this, but it's a long process.

      Which means JUST CHECK IT ONCE at the start of the queue. The 2nd check is completely and utterly pointless. Hell I once realised I'd been showing them the wrong boarding pass, it was only when I went to get on the plane that they pointed it out.

      --
      An Eye for an Eye will make the whole world blind - Gandhi
    5. Re:The TSA redacting process by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The first TSA Agent does check the passports.
      At least last time I was flying (two months ago) and during the year before that.

    6. Re:The TSA redacting process by OverlordQ · · Score: 1

      So in otherwords the TSA check TWICE a piece of easy to fake information and NEVER check your ruddy passport.

      What? The first time I show them the boarding pass they require ID, my case I use my Passport. Can't say they've asked for it after that.

      --
      Your hair look like poop, Bob! - Wanker.
    7. Re:The TSA redacting process by jimicus · · Score: 1

      When you enter the line to the security gate a TSA numpty checks your boarding pass to make sure you are allowed to join the line. Everyone joining the line has their boarding pass checked, this is a piece of paper often printed on a computer that says what flight you are on, its just about the easiest thing to fake in the history of fakery.

      Maybe it's different around where you are, but in every airport I've been to a barcode on the boarding pass is scanned to ensure it's valid.

    8. Re:The TSA redacting process by dkf · · Score: 1

      Which means JUST CHECK IT ONCE at the start of the queue. The 2nd check is completely and utterly pointless. Hell I once realised I'd been showing them the wrong boarding pass, it was only when I went to get on the plane that they pointed it out.

      At my airport, they check boarding passes against a computerized list of people who are allowed in the secured area (and have done for a few years now). This is at the start of the line, and there are no further checks on the boarding pass until you're actually going through the gate, presumably then a check to see if you're getting on the right plane. On the other hand, this isn't in the US. (The UK has had restrictive security at airports for many years; 9/11 made little difference here in practice.)

      Passports aren't checked on exit until you're actually boarding an international flight, and that looks like a check to see that the name matches the boarding pass and the picture matches the person. I guess that allows those deep checks that they do want to do to be carried out between the time when you buy your ticket and when you get your boarding pass.

      --
      "Little does he know, but there is no 'I' in 'Idiot'!"
    9. Re:The TSA redacting process by Corbets · · Score: 1

      The TSA is to security what Micheal Vick is to Pet Care

      Slashdot should have a facility to nominate quotes like this for a Slashdot Hall of Fame.

      I'd be highly surprised if most of Slashdot was clued-in enough to the real world to understand that reference.

    10. Re:The TSA redacting process by sangreal66 · · Score: 1

      They no longer do the boarding pass check after the metal detector.

    11. Re:The TSA redacting process by igny · · Score: 1

      I'd be highly surprised if most of Slashdot was clued-in enough to the real world to understand that reference.

      Google is as good as real world gets.

      --
      In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is. - Yogi Berra
    12. Re:The TSA redacting process by rnaiguy · · Score: 1

      So in otherwords the TSA check TWICE a piece of easy to fake information and NEVER check your ruddy passport.

      As much as I enjoy bashing the government, when is the last time you've boarded a plane in the US? Every time I've flown in the last two years (I never flew much before), I have been required to present a state-issued ID as well as a boarding pass to even start moving through security. I've even seen one woman not allowed through because her driver's license was expired.

      I suspect that they may have revised the procedure when they realized how silly it was. The boarding pass though is still very fakeable (as are some state's IDs).

    13. Re:The TSA redacting process by drinkypoo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Professional sports is only vaguely "the real world". And what in the world is going to change if a pro player gets in trouble for dog fighting? Jack diddly shit. The time people waste committing knowledge about professional sports they will never play is pathetic at best. Oh sure, I do pathetic things, but attacking slashdotters for not being familiar with professional sports is like attacking mother theresa for not being a unicycle rider.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    14. Re:The TSA redacting process by organgtool · · Score: 1
    15. Re:The TSA redacting process by bkr1_2k · · Score: 1

      We obviously travel to different airports. Every security line I've ever gotten in required some form of government photo ID to actually get into the security checkpoint. When traveling internationally, that is ALWAYS a passport.

      Does it actually do anything for security? I don't think so... but they do check ID.

      --
      "Growing old is inevitable; growing up is optional."
    16. Re:The TSA redacting process by bkr1_2k · · Score: 1

      Michael Vick qualifies as "the real world" now? Wow, we (US centric folks) really are snobs aren't we. Most of the world doesn't live in the US and I'd be very surprised if people outside of the US ever knew who he was before the whole fiasco... hell, I'd say at least half the US (non-slashdotters even) wouldn't know who he is. If knowing who some moderately decent athlete is is your idea of "clued in" I'd say you are the one who needs to get out a bit more.

      --
      "Growing old is inevitable; growing up is optional."
    17. Re:The TSA redacting process by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Truly, it is a magnificent representation of the poor misspellings common on /.

    18. Re:The TSA redacting process by DavidTC · · Score: 2, Interesting

      They are used for other purposes. Read this. Here is the important part:

      1. Joe Terrorist (whose name is on the no-fly list) buys a ticket online in the name of Joe Smith using a stolen credit card^H^H^H^H. Joe Smith is not listed on the terrorist watch list.

      2. Joe Terrorist then prints his "Joe Smith" boarding pass at home, and then electronically alters it to create a second almost identical boarding pass under the name Joe Terrorist, his name.

      3. Joe Terrorist then goes to the airport and goes through security with his real ID and the FAKE boarding pass. The name and face match his real driver’s license. The airport employee matches the name and face to the real ID.

      4. The TSA guard at the magnetometer checks to make sure that the boarding pass looks legitimate as Joe Terrorist goes through. He or she does not scan it into the system, so there is still no hint that the name on the fake boarding pass is not the same as the name on the reservation.

      5. Joe Terrorist then goes through the gate into his plane using the real Joe Smith boarding pass for the gate’s computer scanner. He is not asked for ID again to match the name on the scanner, so the fact that he does not have an ID with that name does not matter. (Since Joe Smith doesn’t actually exist it does not coincide with a name on the terrorist watch list) Joe Terrorist boards the plane, no questions asked.

      TADA. A terrorist, on the no fly list, just flew without even bothering to get fake ID. (Rendering all Real ID talk total nonsense.)

      And note I erased 'stolen credit card'. The credit card doesn't have to be stolen. Names of CC purchasers are not checked against the no-fly list, as far as anyone knows. If they are, there are probably ways to fly without a credit card, and if not, getting a credit card in a fake name is easy enough.

      --
      If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
    19. Re:The TSA redacting process by DavidTC · · Score: 1

      Congrats, the name on the piece of paper you printed matches your actual name.

      That's a bit like a teacher giving you a 10 points for writing your name at the top of the page.

      They just checked you were an actual person...but not, you know, an actual person who bought an actual ticket. (And hence were checked against the no fly list.)

      Checking 'ID' against nothing at all is not checking 'ID'. It's checking that you have a driver's license or passport, not that you're who you said you were when you bought the ticket.

      --
      If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
    20. Re:The TSA redacting process by Blakey+Rat · · Score: 1

      And it's so timely because Michael Vick is all over the news right now! People have completely forgotten about that golfer, whatsisname, Lion Woods? Tiger Forest? Whatever.

      I never can believe what passes for "humor" on this site. Is it like wine, older is better?

    21. Re:The TSA redacting process by DavidTC · · Score: 1

      Is the barcode scanned at the same time ID is checked?

      Mine wasn't. At Atlanta, New York, or Vegas. The first two there are two of the busiest airports in the US.

      When I went through, you handed them a randomly printed piece of paper that says whatever you want it to say, and they check that your ID matches what you want it to say. (Sometimes they inexplicably check this again.)

      Then, later, as you get on the plane, the airline scans the ticket you bought, presumably the same piece of paper but you had plenty of time to swap it out, to make sure it is real. This is also where the no fly list is checked. You'll notice they do not check your ID....for all they know, you just mugged someone in the restroom for that ticket.

      --
      If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
    22. Re:The TSA redacting process by jimicus · · Score: 1

      Is the barcode scanned at the same time ID is checked?

      Mine wasn't. At Atlanta, New York, or Vegas. The first two there are two of the busiest airports in the US.

      When I went through, you handed them a randomly printed piece of paper that says whatever you want it to say, and they check that your ID matches what you want it to say. (Sometimes they inexplicably check this again.)

      Now that you mention it, it isn't. But I'm not sure how it matters - you can't give them a randomly printed piece of paper because the barcode is an index to the list of people who are flying today. If it doesn't come up on their database, back you go. This has actually happened to me on a couple of occasions.

      Regarding how busy the airport is - in the last 5 years I've flown through some large airports- Heathrow, Dubai, Singapore, San Francisco and some much smaller airports - Bristol, Avalon, Dublin. In almost all cases, the airports which I felt were the more intrusive and awkward security-wise were the smaller ones.

    23. Re:The TSA redacting process by DavidTC · · Score: 1

      They've never scanned the barcode when I went through. They don't even have a scanner there.

      --
      If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
    24. Re:The TSA redacting process by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Clever, yet misspelled. Yes, this is truly the pinnacle of literary achievement on SlashDot.

    25. Re:The TSA redacting process by OverlordQ · · Score: 1

      Only on slashdot would you find people arguing that "Papers Please" isn't going on enough in america.

      --
      Your hair look like poop, Bob! - Wanker.
    26. Re:The TSA redacting process by DavidTC · · Score: 1

      Well, no, I'm arguing that saying TSA is essentially saying:

      'The terminal is a secure area. To be in there, you must have to have a photo ID, which we will not record, which we will check against a piece of paper you give us, that you yourself printed, saying you can be here.'

      That is not a particularly useful or even sane requirement. It is, in fact, spectacularly stupid.

      They need to check people names on the IDs against some sort of actual no-fly list, or check the piece of paper against the database it should have been printed from (Which checked the name against the no fly-list), or just stop even trying.

      A valid argument is that they should stop trying, either on the grounds that fake IDs are easy to get or that this entire thing is a violation of civil liberties, as you apparently would argue. I personally would argue the no-fly list itself is stupid.

      But regardless of whether or not we should do it, we certainly shouldn't do it in such an idiotically defeatable manner.

      --
      If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
    27. Re:The TSA redacting process by theNAM666 · · Score: 1

      >try the "Post Humously" option.

      I'll prefer to post while alive, thank you.

    28. Re:The TSA redacting process by nacturation · · Score: 1

      >try the "Post Humously" option.

      I'll prefer to post while alive, thank you.

      Someone who replied to me sig and understands it. Hath hell frozen over? Doth swine levitate?

      --
      Want to improve your Karma? Instead of "Post Anonymously", try the "Post Humously" option.
  24. then why was it redacted? by SuperBanana · · Score: 1

    Perhaps it a privacy concern between whomever owns the bag being scanned and other members of the public.

    If that were the case, it wouldn't make sense to have redacted that section.

    Another interesting redacted section talks about how governors, lt. governors, immediate family, and two staff members...all appear to be eligible for "specialized screening", which probably consists of nothing more than a "have a nice flight, sir."

    Same goes for the airplane's crew; they apparently don't want us to know that they're also exempt from any screening. As are: FEMA employees, US Military, US Senators and Representatives, holders of US diplomatic passports, holders of foreign diplomatic passwports with a little "yes, they're OK" card from the US gov't, Forest fighters (wtf?), and FAA inspectors.

    1. Re:then why was it redacted? by wronskyMan · · Score: 1

      I know plenty of military who have gotten the extra screening on flights. And didn't the late Ted Kennedy (or some other congress person) get denied a flight since his name was similar to one on the watch list?

      --
      --- You shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you mad- Neal (not Cowboy) Boortz
    2. Re:then why was it redacted? by Michael+Woodhams · · Score: 1

      According to salon.com's 'Ask the Pilot' column, pilots are not exempt from screening. If all the groups you mention are in the same category, then they also are not exempt.

      --
      Quattuor res in hoc mundo sanctae sunt: libri, liberi, libertas et liberalitas.
    3. Re:then why was it redacted? by amRadioHed · · Score: 1

      That section isn't marked as redacted in the PDF from cryptome.

      --
      We hope your rules and wisdom choke you / Now we are one in everlasting peace
    4. Re:then why was it redacted? by hitmark · · Score: 1

      they read from the wrong list, as he should clearly be on the same "do not stop list" as bin-laden and others VIPs are on...

      --
      comment first, facts later. http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/RelativityofWrong.htm
    5. Re:then why was it redacted? by sjames · · Score: 1

      A few on that list make sense. The pilot need not be screened. If he wants the plane to crash, he won't need a bomb. The U.S. military is probably to prevent future stupidities like soldiers being transported on commercial planes being relieved of their nail clippers even though they carried rifles (with bayonet).

      FEMA employees should be on search 'em twice list. Their recent actions are indistinguishable from terrorism. Senators and Representatives should certainly not be exempt. If the laws they make are good enough for us, they're good enough for them.

    6. Re:then why was it redacted? by Martin+Blank · · Score: 2, Informative

      The document states explicitly that, absent a Federal Flight Deck Officer ID and presence of a TSA-issued weapon, aircraft crew are to be subjected to normal screening. An FFDO that is unarmed is also screened.

      The exemptions that you're talking about are exemptions from selectee screening (Section 4.3.15 B). Military, FEMA, forest firefighters, etc., are exempted from selectee screening. They're not exempted from standard screening.

      --
      You can never go home again... but I guess you can shop there.
    7. Re:then why was it redacted? by billsnow · · Score: 2, Informative

      you misread: the category you just listed is merely exempt from random extra screening. they still get screened, and if their boarding pass has "selectee" markings they have to get screened extra too.

    8. Re:then why was it redacted? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If US Military is exempt from screening then someone forgot to tell half of the screeners I've ran into. Hell I had them put me in one of them booths that hit you with air to test for explosive residue. I was on R&R in uniform from a war zone...

  25. I would love to see Figure J by Wannabe+Code+Monkey · · Score: 1

    The redacted portion of section 3.1.2 references a "Fig. J", yet this figure is not in the document... I would loooove to see what figure J is all about.

    Also, the non-redacted section about Diplomatic Pouches (4.1) is interesting. Specifically point E.3:

    Diplomatic pouches that are inadvertently submitted for screening and that alarm (either accessible property or checked baggage) must be denied access to the sterile or secured area and returned by the STSO to the diplomatic courier or aircraft operator without any further screening. If required, notify an LEO/BAO for items that alarmed the screening system.

    If they accidentally screen a diplomatic pouch and it tests positive for something, the bag isn't allowed into the secured area... but it's returned to the courier un-investigated. And they'll just be able to bring it on another flight where it won't get screened this time. I get the concept behind diplomatic pouches, but once the veil is pierced I don't think it makes sense to just ignore what you saw, especially once you know something's wrong. What if the courier opened the pouch themselves and showed the screener a ticking bomb and then closed it up again? The screener was never supposed to see that, so what then? Just go about your business?

    --
    We always knew Comcast was corrupt, here's the proof: http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1909890&cid=34545432
    1. Re:I would love to see Figure J by nedlohs · · Score: 1

      It's always a false positive.

      When was the last time you saw a real valid positive while lining up and seeing hundreds of people go through security in front of you?

      Other than bottles of water, yes, they are pretty good as stopping those.

    2. Re:I would love to see Figure J by MichaelSmith · · Score: 1

      I know someone who used to fly for an airline. They had passengers who were authorized for diplomatic reasons to carry guns, but the guns had to be unloaded and locked in a box. The Captain had the key but the purser had to check that the gun was unloaded. So this gun goes in the box. Pursor signs on the dotted line that the weapon is unloaded. Captain for some reason doesn't believe him. Maybe the weight of the box or some other reason. Captain says okay lets give it a test. Checks for clearance overhead, points the weapon skywards and pulls the trigger. The gun fires of course and the captain is in a bit of strife. But his responsibility ultimately goes beyond what the law required in this instance.

    3. Re:I would love to see Figure J by dbIII · · Score: 1

      They had passengers who were authorized for diplomatic reasons to carry guns

      I saw that movie too, but can't remember if it had Roger Moore or one of the others in it.
      So getting back to reality, which airline let random embassy officials take guns in the cabin at any time after about 1970 or so?

    4. Re:I would love to see Figure J by greg1104 · · Score: 1

      OMG! I saw the same thing once! Only it turned out the prohibited item not allowed in the cabin was actually Megatron.

    5. Re:I would love to see Figure J by maxume · · Score: 1

      He is certainly responsible for being an idiot, there are, in fact, less drastic ways to check the status of a gun.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
  26. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 2, Informative

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  27. Not the first time I've seen it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I used to manage an E-discovery group at a
    lawfirm. We would receive stuff like this from
    opposing council all the time.

    People really are that stupid.

    1. Re:Not the first time I've seen it. by ledow · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Maybe the people on the other side were like yourself: your credentials hold no water if you weren't involved enough to spell "counsel" - the word you used means something completely different.

    2. Re:Not the first time I've seen it. by sowth · · Score: 1

      Yeah, the guy making a minor typo or spelling mistake proves he doesn't know anything. You must be some middle manager who judges interviewees based on what color socks they wear. Instead of... maybe something sane... such as being qualified for the job? Er mayby ewe yust whire wymen with bag tets end sat in your irifice masterbating ill dey.

      Moderators: please mod the spelling Nazi's post Offtopic, as well as mine. (I have karma to burn, fuck it all)

  28. Text into bitmap?! by mi · · Score: 1

    in most departments the procedure is to simply black it out on a hard copy and then photocopy the hard copy or scan it if it is to go online.

    Now, that is a bloody travesty! It turns a neat, easy to read (scalable fonts!) document with nicely searchable contents into a bitmap... It ought to be possible to properly black-out information, that does not want to be free, without turning the rest of the text into a picture.

    Departments doing it as you describe are wasting my money — I want a refund!

    --
    In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    1. Re:Text into bitmap?! by petermgreen · · Score: 1

      Now, that is a bloody travesty! It turns a neat, easy to read (scalable fonts!) document with nicely searchable contents into a bitmap... It ought to be possible to properly black-out information, that does not want to be free, without turning the rest of the text into a picture.
      It is possible, the question is what is the risk of someone screwing the procedure up and is that risk of screwup worth the improved quality of the copy.

      --
      note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
  29. profiling by c0llin · · Score: 1

    iv. If the individual’s photo ID is a passport issued by the Government of Cuba, Iran, North Korea, Libya, Syria, Sudan, Afghanistan, Lebanon, Somalia, Iraq, Yemen, or Algeria, refer the individual for selectee screening unless the individual has been exempted from selectee screening by the FSD or aircraft operator. really?

    1. Re:profiling by EmagGeek · · Score: 1

      No. That is not profiling.

      Profiling is making the decision to select for screening based upon physical characteristics of the traveler, such as the color of their skin, or their dress.

      This simply requires that all persons holding travel documents from certain countries be screened. There's nothing to do with race, religion, gender, sexual orientation, or any of that crap.

  30. The limit on size... by mbessey · · Score: 1

    From what I've read, the intent is to limit how large of a *container* you can bring on board. Yes 5 people can bring on 5x the amount of explosive precursors. But they'll have to mix it up in 5 batches, which will take multiple trips to the restroom, careful coordination, etc, etc.

    They're not worried about someone bringing actual liquid explosives on board. They have equipment that will detect those compounds reliably.

    1. Re:The limit on size... by honkycat · · Score: 1

      Commonly stated theory, which falls on its face when you consider that you can easily bring an empty container through security, or buy a beverage container or souvenir type item after passing through.

    2. Re:The limit on size... by DavidTC · · Score: 1

      Don't need to do that. Every single person who passes through security has a container large enough to max stuff in.

      Namely, the resealable liter-sized clear plastic bag they were required to bring the things inside of.

      And I love the idea that it would take 'multiple trips to the restroom'. So...um...security people are counting those? No? Then why the fuck is that a deterrent?

      Of course, it wouldn't take that, it would just take everyone handing all the items to one guy, who puts them in his luggage. 'Oh, people will notice them trading items.' 'Um, no they won't, people traveling together do that all the time.'

      He then can sit alone in a bathroom stall as long as he wants putting it together.

      Watching the TSA do security is like watching a dozen 3 year-olds assemble a computer.

      --
      If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
  31. These guys are in charge of "security?" A farce. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Apparently, this didn't make it through the screener at the Document Security Administration ("DSA").

  32. THIS HAS HAPPENED BEFORE! by slimjim8094 · · Score: 2, Insightful
    --
    I have developed a truly marvelous proof of this comment, which this signature is too narrow to contain.
    1. Re:THIS HAS HAPPENED BEFORE! by Wuhao · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The exact same thing has happened before, and was even covered on slashdot, many many times.

      http://entertainment.slashdot.org/story/08/05/20/0228229/FBI-Wiretapping-Audit-Secrets-Uncovered-Via-CtrlC http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/06/22/138210 http://yro.slashdot.org/story/03/11/01/1729257/Memory-Hole-Un-Redacts-Redacted-DOJ-Memo

      It's almost as if the sort of people who would think drawing black rectangles in a PDF renders text unreadable don't read the sort of websites that laugh at people for drawing black rectangles in a PDF to render text unreadable.

  33. No, pilots DO need to be screened... by SmoothTom · · Score: 2, Interesting

    No, pilots DO need to be screened, because the chance of ONE cockpit crew member going bad and wanting to take the plane out is much better tha the chance of ALL the cockpit crew members wanting that.

    That means that with zero screening the "bad pilot" could bring on board a weapon (gun, grenade, knife, flammable liquid, acid, whatever) to either take out the rest of the cockpit crew or the controls.

    If the "bad pilot" is unable to get something more dangerous than normal on board, he has less chance to destroy the plane - and the others have a better chance to get him "under control."

    There is no reason to allow anyone past the security chokepoint without being screened, but ESPECIALLY those who will be out of view in the cockpit and able to kill of the rest of the crew or damage the aircraft beyond being flyable.

    Gotta think these things through, people.

    --Tomas (Ex-USAF)

    1. Re:No, pilots DO need to be screened... by sjames · · Score: 1

      Not really. A single fast and violent maneuver at cruising speed can render a plane unflyable in an instant. By the time the other pilot could even react, the deed is done.

      That was shown when an A320 pilot accidentally snapped the vertical stabilizer off at maneuvering speed in a panic. He did so with a series of hard rudder deflections and nobody stopped him. Imagine if he had been trying to crash the plane.

      Pilots have hectic enough schedules with inadequate rest as it is. Anything that increases their hassles and chews up any more of their non-flying time will reduce safety, not add to it. I want my pilot rested and happy, not tired and pissed off at the goon who confiscated his shampoo.

      If you're not sure enough of the pilots to let them carry whatever they want on the plane with them, you've already missed the chance for security.

    2. Re:No, pilots DO need to be screened... by bkr1_2k · · Score: 1

      No, the GP is correct, all flight crew should be screened (and they are). They shouldn't go through the ridiculous nonsense that the rest of us go through (and don't they have a more realistic screening process), but they definitely need checking. There are 2 pilots for a number of reasons and one of those reasons is exactly as SmoothTom suggests- security.

      It would take a very strange course of actions for a pilot to render a plane "unflyable in an instant" since doing so would mean going against several standard operating procedures. Again, that's why there are multiple safeguards onboard including another pilot. Yes it's possible, but it would have to occur during takeoff or landing to be something done without causing undo notice prior to accomplishing the actual "violent maneuver".

      --
      "Growing old is inevitable; growing up is optional."
    3. Re:No, pilots DO need to be screened... by sjames · · Score: 1

      As I said before, a pilot DID bring a plane down (unintentionally) through maneuvering with a co-pilot present. If it has been done accidentally, I'd say it CAN be done.

      Yes, crashing a plane violates standard operating procedures, so? The copilot isn't there in case the pilot turns out to be a terrorist, he's there in case the pilot has a medical problem and because at some points things get too busy for one person to do it all safely.

      It can even be argued that pilot and co-pilot should be issued guns if they don't have their own.

    4. Re:No, pilots DO need to be screened... by Planx_Constant · · Score: 1

      I think the GP has a pretty good point; look at what happened at FedEx with no pilot screening: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FedEx_Flight_705

      --
      Heisenberg might have been here.
    5. Re:No, pilots DO need to be screened... by DavidTC · · Score: 1

      Hey, dumbass. Most airplanes only have two people in the lockable cockpit. I love the way you say 'ALL cockpit members' like it's the damn Enterprise with a half-dozen people sitting around.

      And on most flights over about 4 hours, each of them, in turn, will leave to use the restroom.

      No pilot has to 'attack' anyone to be left along with the airplane. They can crash the plane during the other guy's restroom break, or usually lock them entirely out of the cockpit and do whatever they want.

      Even if there are three people in the cockpit, waiting until one leaves and disabling the other is pretty easy when they don't expect it. *walk up behind them* 'Hey, this navigational data looks wrong.' 'What? Let me see.' *wack them against the dash*

      And, as others have pointed out, there are things you can do that will near instantly screw up the plane, like operating the controls so quickly the break, or dumping all your fuel, or all sorts of stuff. Airplane control safeties just protect people from common mistakes they make while attempting to fly the plane, they don't protect against actual malicious action. By the time the other person noticed what was going on, the entire plane would be broken.

      --
      If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
    6. Re:No, pilots DO need to be screened... by sjames · · Score: 1

      The man was a pilot, but was not a pilot on that flight. He was about to be terminated. He was on-board as a courtesy.

      Cargo pilots are not vetted to anywhere near the extent of a passenger pilot.

      It's one incident in the entire history of aviation.

      If we're going to implement draconian rules for every one off event, we're in trouble.

    7. Re:No, pilots DO need to be screened... by bkr1_2k · · Score: 1

      Re-read for comprehension this time... Here's a direct quote from my post:
      Yes it's possible, but it would have to occur during takeoff or landing to be something done without causing undo notice prior to accomplishing the actual "violent maneuver".

      Yes, the copilot is primarily there as a "backup" pilot, but security concerns are, in fact, one of the justifications. Not the primary justification, but one of several.

      --
      "Growing old is inevitable; growing up is optional."
    8. Re:No, pilots DO need to be screened... by sjames · · Score: 1

      Re-read for comprehension this time

      *PLONK*

    9. Re:No, pilots DO need to be screened... by downhole · · Score: 1

      I don't know how realistic that is, but I figure the real reason is to prevent the crew from smuggling weapons past security to hand off to someone else. Maybe you can't find any pilots willing to crash their own plane into something for any reason, but it would probably be much easier to find one who would be willing to carry a weapon past security and hand it off to an actual terrorist for a few hundred k of cash. There's gotta be a few who have families and are deep in debt and would stretch their morals a little if it meant they could provide for their families again, as long as they didn't think anybody they knew would get hurt.

      --
      I don't reply to ACs
  34. Plain text to PDF better by failedlogic · · Score: 1

    Distributing FOIA documents in electronic forma bears the consequence of leaving employee and Word/Acrobat metadata. They should should just dump the file into a plain text and then run it through a .txt to PDF converter.

    Instead of drawing over words or phrases with black marker as is common, it should be acceptable to redact words, sentences or paragraphs with ", ". If its need to know, you won't get the information anyways so it isn't relevant to know how much information is redacted, I can't see how this would contribute to openness. It also avoids the games people have played in the past with being able to guess what the redacted word(s) or a sentence by judging the spacing of characters and type of font used missing from the text.

    1. Re:Plain text to PDF better by sowth · · Score: 1

      Convert a plain text file to pdf? Why? Plain text files can be read by countless thousands of programs, while pdf only works with a chosen few.

  35. TSA? by angularbanjo · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    I never realised that the Tourette Syndrome Association had such power. Who the f*** gave them that? ********!

  36. CIA Milan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    c. WOMAP Escort Officer cell phone number

    Slow learners after the Milan incident? Maybe someone should call 703-601-3200 and send a friendly reminder? Just remember to leave a note stating whether you'd prefer to accidentally fall off a bridge or lose control on a road corner :P

  37. One interesting redacted section by jonwil · · Score: 5, Interesting

    iv. If the individual's photo ID is a passport issued by the Government of Cuba, Iran, North
    Korea, Libya, Syria, Sudan, Afghanistan, Lebanon, Somalia, Iraq, Yemen, or Algeria, refer
    the individual for selectee screening unless the individual has been exempted from selectee
    screening by the FSD or aircraft operator.

    This section proves that the US Government and the TSA DO target certain groups (in this case people from certain countries) for extra screening (regardless of the individuals who may be members of these groups)

    Are people with a Lebanese or Algerian passport more of a risk than other people? Or is it that these passports are easier for the bad guys to legitimately obtain than any other one?

    1. Re:One interesting redacted section by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are people with a Lebanese or Algerian passport more of a risk than other people?

      Yes, they are. Those countries have a large terrorist population and a long history of setting bombs.

    2. Re:One interesting redacted section by Ralph+Spoilsport · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Then why isn't Saudi Arabia on that list?

      --
      Shoes for Industry. Shoes for the Dead.
    3. Re:One interesting redacted section by netpixie · · Score: 1

      Or Ireland or America (McVey, Unabomber, Weathermen, Manson Family, etc, etc.)?

    4. Re:One interesting redacted section by thisnamestoolong · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Mod parent up to +11 Insightful -- the ONE major terrorist attack that precipitated all of this nonsense was perpetrated by Saudi nationals, yet they are not on this list of nations? That list has no place being in existence, but if it is to exist, it is psychotic to not include Saudi Arabia.

      --
      To the haters: You can't win. If you mod me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine
    5. Re:One interesting redacted section by TubeSteak · · Score: 1

      refer the individual for selectee screening unless the individual has been exempted from selectee
      screening by the FSD or aircraft operator.

      Since when can aircraft operators exempt anyone from screening?
      I thought "selectee" and secondary screening crap was 100% Federal now.

      --
      [Fuck Beta]
      o0t!
    6. Re:One interesting redacted section by MiniMike · · Score: 1
      It's surprising that people from countries that either support terrorism or have terrorists running all over them* get selected for more screening? Why would the TSA pass up such a great chance to increase their illusion of security? I'm actually surprised there's not a few more on the list. Otoh, it probably is easier for many of the 'bad guys' to legitimately obtain these passports as that's the country they're from.

      * Not sure why Cuba is on the list, except that the U.S. government seems to like to stick it to them every chance they get. IIRC Cuban hijackers usually want to get TO the U.S., and wouldn't be going through TSA checkpoints.

    7. Re:One interesting redacted section by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Then why isn't Saudi Arabia on that list?

      I never said that Saudi Arabia shouldn't be on that list, just explaining why Lebanon & Algeria were on it.

    8. Re:One interesting redacted section by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's cute that Saudi Arabia and United Arab Emirates are not on that list.

      9/11 anyone?

    9. Re:One interesting redacted section by molo · · Score: 1

      WTF? Why isn't Saudi Arabia or Egypt on this list?!? You know, the two countries that actually had citizens participate in the 9/11 attacks!?

      -molo

      --
      Using your sig line to advertise for friends is lame.
    10. Re:One interesting redacted section by Blakey+Rat · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure how the arrangement works, but if you charter a private plane and the charter company is under a certain size, they are responsible for the security check. For example, I'm pretty sure when I flew Kenmore Air out of Seattle, the security screening (what little of it there was) was definitely not under Federal control. And when you think about it, the TSA can't possibly have the resources to send full-time staff to *every* airport (or in the case of Kenmore Air, dock-- they're seaplanes) that offers charters.

    11. Re:One interesting redacted section by EvilJoker · · Score: 1

      My guess is because AFAIK, there is no trade embargo/export restriction against Saudi Arabia.

      The extra screening might be to prevent espionage/smuggling, rather than thwart a hijacker.

    12. Re:One interesting redacted section by X86Daddy · · Score: 1

      So... let's consider why Saudi nationals are not included in the mandatory extra screening... possibilities:

      • The BFF relationship between the US government and Saudi Arabia is too fragile and too important to risk doing the kind of real security that might prevent a duplicate of 9/11.
      • The BFF relationship between the US government and Saudi Arabia is too fragile and too important to risk over ridiculous security theater, because no one, let alone Saudis, will try the same method again given that Americans learned to stop it within about an hour of the first successful use of that technique.
      • Saudi nationals were not actually involved in 9/11 and therefore do not need to be on that list.
      • Not only is TSA "Security Theater," but, much as long lined checkpoints provide great new targets, TSA's procedures are intended to make us more vulnerable to attack.

      I read the PDF and glossed right over that list of nationalities... Excellent question, Ralph Spoilsport. I don't buy into most of the 9/11 alternate theories, but this actually disturbs me more than most related data.

    13. Re:One interesting redacted section by Reziac · · Score: 1

      And when were we last attacked by a Cuban national??

      --
      ~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
    14. Re:One interesting redacted section by Reziac · · Score: 1

      Door #4: 'Not only is TSA "Security Theater," but, much as long lined checkpoints provide great new targets, TSA's procedures are =intended= to make us more vulnerable to attack.'

      Now that you mention it, that's a good point... and come to think of it, WHO exactly is it that we're being made more vulnerable to?

      Besides our own government, that is.... Hmmmm.

      --
      ~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
  38. Who is Maria Mercier, Maryland? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I couldn't find a Member of Congress of that name. So if she's fictitious, why did they feel the need to doubly redact her name on page 4-26?

    1. Re:Who is Maria Mercier, Maryland? by Goffee71 · · Score: 1

      Just wait there Sir/Madam, Agent Smith is on his way in the black helicopter.

      --
      If he's the Walrus then can I be a penguin please?
  39. is cheaper on ink by Sky+Cry · · Score: 1

    Hey TSA dudes, do your bit for the environment and like we do on slashdot.

    What do you mean?

    1. Re: is cheaper on ink by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hey TSA dudes, do your bit for the environment and use like we do on slashdot.

      WHUT?

    2. Re:is cheaper on ink by FlyingBishop · · Score: 1

      ^H or ctrl-H, is an ascii character, and the same character that backspace sends. So he was suggesting that the TSA delete^H^H^H^H^H^H fail to delete the text using escaped backspaces instead of literal backspaces, because that would be cheaper on ink.

  40. Amazing what they let in the cargo hold... by rklrkl · · Score: 1

    I must say I was bemused to see the sort of items that are allowed into the cargo hold (i.e. via checked-in luggage, though I'm guessing you have to declare most or all of these):

    Live ammunition, firearms, stun guns, cattle prods, martial arts weapons (yes, including numchucks), axes, meat cleavers, knives of *any* length, bows and arrows, swords and throwing stars.

    Enough weapons to start a small war there - I wonder if there's a limit (other than total baggage weight) on how many of each of these items you can put in your luggage?

    1. Re:Amazing what they let in the cargo hold... by L4t3r4lu5 · · Score: 1

      Whether you can carry them at your destination is entirely different, though.

      "Hello, sir. Could I please check your passport and as if you've anything to declare?"
      "No, all good here!"
      "Very good. Do you still have your ticket stub?" *Press red mushroom button on floor with foot and wait for armed Police to arrive*

      --
      Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
    2. Re:Amazing what they let in the cargo hold... by 6Yankee · · Score: 1

      ...pets... How much explosives could you sew into a large dog?

    3. Re:Amazing what they let in the cargo hold... by pi_rules · · Score: 1

      Firearms are the only item on the list that you have to declare. At least, that I'm aware of. At the very least it's the only thing on the list that'll permit/require you to keep your luggage locked up.

      As far as limits go the only one I know of is an 11lb limit on ammunition.

  41. Blacked-out? by Bromskloss · · Score: 1

    They really just marked all the important parts for us with one of those colourful marker pens. And black is their idea of colouful.

    --
    Swedish plasma phys. PhD student; MSc EE; knows maths, programming, electronics; finance interest; seeks opportunities
  42. Well just saying "Frist Post" is redundant. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Well just saying "Frist Post" is redundant if it really IS the first post, isn't it. It's obvious. If it isn't first post then rather being redundant, it's just wrong and there's no mod for that.

  43. Not to make people feele secure by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...It's to make the general population *FEEL* secure...

    You've got that 180 degrees backwards. It's not to make people feel secure; it's to make people feel scared. Fear is a more powerful emotion than the feelings of peace and security. With enough fear you can justify policies you'd never get away with in a thousand years if The People felt secure. Fear is power.

    Of course that's not saying the TSA does a good job of it. Most any frequent traveler thinks by now that it's pointless and absurd -- but bear in mind that competence has never been a hallmark of the TSA.

    Of course over time the charade will devolve, if it has not already, to simple bureaucratic inertia and butt covering, so that when something very bad does someday happen to an airplane, no one will end up pilloried for dismantling the useless "security" theatre thereby "allowing" the bad thing to happen.

    It's often a lot easier to start doing something dumb than to stop.

  44. WWII terrorism : Who wrote the history books ? by DrYak · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Most people would not call the attacks of Germany and Britain on each others civilian populations during WWII "terrorism", even though the blanket targeting of civilian populations did occur (ie. the bombing of civilians was not an accident, or "collateral damage", it was a deliberate act designed to kill and undermine moral).
    Why was the bombing of civilian cities (those with no or little military infrastructure) during WWII considered valid, and yet now is considered "terrorism"?

    Well from a purely theoretical point of view, these bombings (and also the nuclear bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki) were *indeed* perfect example of the definition of terrorism (killing civilian target for the sole purpose of undermining the moral), even if they were done by government instead of some rebel groups.

    But now you see, with wars done by governments, the small difference is that the winners get to write the history books. And if they choose to call their deeds as "glorious acts of democratic resistance against the evil empire of dumb-stupid nazis" instead of "acts of terror to break the enemy's morale", so be it.
    And that's how some doctrine like "Shock and awe" are born.

    In an alternate reality where the American economy had collapsed, giving a chance to Afghanistan to actually win the war, you know how the books where going to describe this conflict.

    --
    "Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
    1. Re:WWII terrorism : Who wrote the history books ? by thepooh81 · · Score: 1

      I think I would classify terrorism as any premeditated act against a state that has not declared war against the actionee or a non-military target with the intent to injure, maim, kill or destroy the target specifically for the intense emotional reaction that such an act would cause in anyone with a vested interest in the target.

      I've been thinking about this for awhile and thought that my above solution was pretty good. Any ideas on how to make it a better description?

    2. Re:WWII terrorism : Who wrote the history books ? by jeremyp · · Score: 1

      In an alternate reality where the American economy had collapsed, giving a chance to Afghanistan to actually win the war, you know how the books where going to describe this conflict.

      Afghanistan is on the same side of the Americans.

      However, the people they are both fighting (the Taliban) could easily still win even without American economic collapse.

      --
      All I want is a secure system where it's easy to do anything I want. Is that too much to ask ~~ Randall Munroe
    3. Re:WWII terrorism : Who wrote the history books ? by Phylomo · · Score: 1

      I don't think that will work.

      - you're discussing motivations, hard to prove at best

      - every attack in war is designed to "injure, maim, kill or destroy the target specifically for the intense emotional reaction that such an act would cause in anyone with a vested interest in the target." That's the strategic goal of war. To remove the enemy's will to fight.

      - "not declared war against the actionee". Happens all the time, perfectly legitimate and not terrorism.

      - "premeditated". Acts of war and acts of terrorism are often against "targets of opportunity". In other words, not premeditated.

      The proper definition classifies terrorism as attacks against clearly civilian targets, usually for the shock value of such attacks. Bombing a school-bus? Terrorism. Bombing a house full of armed enemies, incidentally killing children in the house next door? Not terrorism.

    4. Re:WWII terrorism : Who wrote the history books ? by bkr1_2k · · Score: 1

      So the bombing of Pearl Harbor was an act of terrorism, not war? You basically just defined what used to be called an act of war (though you did ad the "intense emotional reaction"). Now we call it terrorism.

      --
      "Growing old is inevitable; growing up is optional."
    5. Re:WWII terrorism : Who wrote the history books ? by Phylomo · · Score: 1

      I think what a lot of people are missing is that labels like "terrorist" are internal. No matter who attacks us, partisan, soldier, terrorist, we have the right to respond vigorously. The label is about how we choose to respond and how we present ourselves to the world.

      Yes, the acts in WWII could be defined as "terrorism" in one sense, but since we had to win, we did what was necessary. In a fight for survival, all tactics are acceptable.

      NOBODY CARES how the enemy classifies him until the fighting is over. Then, you are correct, the victors write the history books.

    6. Re:WWII terrorism : Who wrote the history books ? by bkr1_2k · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The problem is that we classify the bombings done by the Axis powers as war too, not terrorism. It's not just about who gets to write the history books. It's about the constant changing of language and acceptance of new things. We never heard "collateral damage" until the early 90s (as civilians). We certainly never heard words like Jihad, or WMD, or rendition, or any other of a number of words that have "evolved" from the last couple of wars the US has been involved with fighting. And let's not forget how "patriot" has changed in the last couple of generations. Our fathers and grandfathers fought in a war that was "just" (WWII) and were true patriots. They fought to protect life all over the world. Now a "patriot" is someone who doesn't argue with the government... it's pretty scary. We are changing the meaning of words and the use of words to further instill the fear that we are supposedly fighting against. It's would be interesting to watch if it weren't so damned creepy.

      --
      "Growing old is inevitable; growing up is optional."
    7. Re:WWII terrorism : Who wrote the history books ? by ZygnuX · · Score: 1

      cue 1984 newspeak in 3, 2, 1 ...

    8. Re:WWII terrorism : Who wrote the history books ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You missed the previous requirements, though. Attack on military = not terrorism. Keep up.

    9. Re:WWII terrorism : Who wrote the history books ? by bkr1_2k · · Score: 1

      I kept up just fine and was responding to a specific post. Read for comprehension. Here, I'll help.
      From the post I replied to: I think I would classify terrorism as any premeditated act against a state that has not declared war against the actionee

      --
      "Growing old is inevitable; growing up is optional."
    10. Re:WWII terrorism : Who wrote the history books ? by Knara · · Score: 1

      It's further complicated by the fact that "terrorists" often don't represent a state (or state-like) actor.

      The convenient thing, from a classification point of view, was that with 9/11 there was actually a state that could be held responsible (and we promptly removed its existing government).

    11. Re:WWII terrorism : Who wrote the history books ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In an alternate reality where the American economy had collapsed, giving a chance to Afghanistan to actually win the war, you know how the books where going to describe this conflict.

      Sorry, this is a bit OT.

      What if they are not fighting to win? Just like when Mr. Data is playing Strategema, he can't beat Kolrami straight on, so he plays to a draw.

  45. The real killers of modern society : NOT terrorism by DrYak · · Score: 1

    Unfortunately, we (the gov't with our tax dollars) are spending so much to enhance the illusion, that could be better spent elsewhere.

    Yup, indeed.

    If the government really wanted to protect the civil population from certain death, it would immediately sue car manufacturer and fast-food stores.
    You see, given current statistics in our modern societies, we can pretty easily predict that the largest proportion of people who read this post, and the largest proportion of the people afraid of terrorism that the government is trying to reassure, are all probably going to die :
    - either in a car accident
    - or from a heart attack with their arteries clogged by cholesterol

    That, ladies and gentlemen, is the biggest killers in our modern societies that we have to fear. Be afraid of your car, be afraid of your TV dinner. Be very very afraid.

    But you know, people normally aren't afraid of everyday things, they are used to them no matter how much dangerous they are. Instead they are afraid of things that they don't understand. Of all that extremely rare and improbable but spectacular events. And they ask for some governmental action. And thus the government gives what the masses are asking for : running after some so improbable event that it's almost indistinguishable from random noise.

    --
    "Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
  46. Credit where credit is due by SmilingBoy · · Score: 1
    Credit where credit is due:

    The document appears to have been discovered by user OnTheAsile on the flyertalk.com forums in this post:

    http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/travel-safety-security/1024103-foia-request-rules-tsa-requires-passengers-follow-airport-checkpoint-advice.html#post12931726

    Several posts later, FlyerTalk members discovered that the blacked out information has not been removed.

  47. Missing tag by Ralph+Spoilsport · · Score: 1

    Securitytheatre

    --
    Shoes for Industry. Shoes for the Dead.
  48. Re:Easy to laugh when you aren't responsible by Overzeetop · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Prior to 1/1/2002, what percentage of people who flew were killed by terrorists. Tell you what, let's add in everyone killed on the ground as a result of the plane crashes on 9/11/01. Now what's the percentage. What percentage of people who drive cars are killed every year prior to mandatory seatbelts? And after?

    Now compare the percentage reduction in each to the total annual cost of each. I think you'll find the TSA screening to be horribly cost ineffective.

    Besides, how many passenger groups are likely to be passive during a hijacking post-9/11? You saw the reaction of the passengers of the third plane; TSA is actually doing very little.

    --
    Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
  49. Technology doesn't change things... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    My dad works at a newspaper that once received a document from the Sheriff's office that included a list of juvenile offenders. Since juvenile offenders' identities are kept private, the Sheriff's office redacted them.

    By striking them out, on the submitted photocopy, with a black marker.

    A quick trip to the light table, and up came the names.

  50. Email overload? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    1.4.E. If an SOP or medium of storage (DVD, Thumb Drive) containing an SOP is lost or stolen,
    immediately send an e-mail to SSI@dhs.gov. Identify the item reported missing, include a thorough
    description, and provide point of contact information.

     
    Anyone else think all of Slashdot should report this to SSI@dhs.gov ? Just to watch their servers melt?

  51. All Are Equal? by Tokolosh · · Score: 1

    In the USA we pride ourselves in throwing off parasitic royalty and that everyone is equal. To become a naturalized citizen you have to renounce your titles. So why do sundry "dignitaries" get exemption from screening? If I have to take off my shoes to enter the portals of transportation, then so should everyone, from the President down. What is so special about a lieutenant-governor's wife, anyway?

    --
    Prove anything by multiplying Huge Number times Tiny Number
  52. Redax by OhHellWithIt · · Score: 1

    It looks to me like Appligent is going to gain another customer for Redax. If you're gonna black it out, do it right.

    --
    "Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past." -- George Orwell
  53. Re:Easy to laugh when you aren't responsible by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    TSA is actually doing very little.

    Well, that's not entirely true. They are employing a sizable workforce of high school dropouts and McDonald's rejects.

  54. Military target by DrYak · · Score: 1

    So the bombing of Pearl Harbor was an act of terrorism, not war?

    Well, uh, no. Pearl Harbor is a *naval base*. It's navy. It's not mainly a civilian harbour.
    Civilian did die during that bombing. But nonetheless the purpose was to attack an American naval base.

    Whereas, with the bombings mentioned above, the target were clearly civilian.

    --
    "Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
    1. Re:Military target by bkr1_2k · · Score: 1

      From the post I replied to:
      I think I would classify terrorism as any premeditated act against a state that has not declared war against the actionee...

      At the time of the bombing of Pearl Harbor we had not declared war on Germany or Japan.

      --
      "Growing old is inevitable; growing up is optional."
  55. Possibility... by Conspiracy_Of_Doves · · Score: 1

    Anyone consider the possibility that this WAS a competent clerk?

    But that he was also one of us?

  56. Not exactly right by RingDev · · Score: 1

    Terrorism is: "the calculated use of unlawful violence or threat of unlawful violence to inculcate fear; intended to coerce or to intimidate governments or societies in the pursuit of goals that are generally political, religious, or ideological."

    Attacks on the military can be considered terrorism.

    Attacks by crack pots who have no agenda of social change, regardless of the horror, are not terrorism.

    For instance:
    Bombing of the USS Cole = Terrorism.
    Ft Hood shootings = Premeditated murder by a mentally unhinged man.

    -Rick

    --
    "Most people in the U.S. wouldn't know they live in a tyrannical state if it walked up and grabbed their junk." - MyFirs
  57. ttp:// by Tetsujin · · Score: 1

    What, you don't recognize transport transport protocol when you see it?

    No, no, it's text transport protocol... It's a special protocol that they came up with for exchanging ordinary text over the internet.

    --
    Bow-ties are cool.
  58. There are a lot of stategies by DrYak · · Score: 1

    every attack in war is designed to "injure, maim, kill or destroy the target specifically for the intense emotional reaction that such an act would cause in anyone with a vested interest in the target." That's the strategic goal of war. To remove the enemy's will to fight.

    No. Not every attack.
    - Injuring/maiming/killing civilian to instil fear is *one* possible strategy.
    - You can target military structure/units with the intent to (also instil fear) and reduce mainly the available fighting power of the adversary
    - You can precisely target critical infrastructure with the intent to (also instil fear) and mainly restrict the resources available to the adversary for fighting while generating to lowest amount of damage. (So called surgical strikes). Civilians will die too, though.

    When killing random civilians for the sake of killing them, your main intent is to instil fear.

    When killing specific other target, your main intent is to reduce the capacity of the adversary to fight (by cutting supplies, resources, or diminishing the number of available able fighters). Fear is just an added bonus which happens to come in the same package.

    That's the difference between an act of war (Let's bomb a base. Or a critical factory. Or a power plant) and an act of terrorism (Let's level a whole city, or some culturally important monument, etc.).

    Of course that are absolute theoretical example. The reality is usually more complex.

    Nonetheless, my point was to prove that, when at war, killing civilian just to instil fear is *not* the only single strategy available for any attack.

    --
    "Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
    1. Re:There are a lot of stategies by Phylomo · · Score: 1

      I still don't agree with your definition, but I see that you have put a lot of thought into it.

      Agree to disagree?

  59. Here's how the government works by Hasai · · Score: 1

    Okay; I used to work for the feds, so I'm going to try to explain to everyone how things work in Foggy Bottom, aka Washington, D.C.:

    When a new bureaucracy is created in Foggy Bottom, immediately there is a great rumbling sound as huge swarms of Homo Bureaucratus Vulgaris begin to migrate. Although numerous, these specimens are actually culls from the vastly-larger main herds, unable to advance within their previous pecking-order, or more typically, so incompetent that they are actually in danger being dismissed and being forced to survive as mere citizens. Slow starvation is the usual result.

    Upon arriving at the domain of the new bureaucracy, each of the creatures quickly move to occupy just as much of the available resources as is possible, with vast expenditures going toward silk plants and high-tech office chairs. Territorial disputes are inevitable, with vast battles breaking-out over departmental head-counts, convenient parking spaces, and corner offices.

    After several years of bloody struggle, however, a new pecking-order is established, and, after much prodding by other, bigger, meaner bureaucratic entities, the creatures reluctantly begin to produce a minimal amount of output. Many of the migrant Homo Bureaucratus Vulgaris, however, find themselves in precisely the same situation as before, as their shortcomings typically survive the sojourn. Thus the groundwork for the next mass migration is laid.

    --

    Regards;

    Hasai

  60. DMCA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Trigger takedown notice to Cryptome in 3...2...1...

  61. Adobe Acrobat has a redaction feature by PhunkySchtuff · · Score: 1

    Adobe Acrobat specifically has a Redaction feature that was included for this exact reason.

    If you use it properly, you hilight the sections of text or images that you want to be redacted and pick the colour you want the covering rectangle to be. Once you apply the redactions, Acrobat removes the text from the page, removes any indexed text that refers to the redacted text (eg in a TOC link) and also offers to remove just about all the metadata in the PDF as well. Once redacted, the text is simply not in the PDF any more, it's gone. You can delete the rectangle but the text is not underneath it. You can't search for the text and you can't find it hidden in the metadata in the PDF either. It is completely gone.

    This is an incredibly easy way to achieve what you want to do as you just hilight the text and click Redact. No drawing fiddly rectangles or anything like that. You can delete the rectangle object but there's nothing underneath it, it's simply there for visual appeal.

  62. Diplomatic fuck-up by DrYak · · Score: 1

    At the time of the bombing of Pearl Harbor we had not declared war on Germany or Japan.

    Well, that's basically a diplomatic fuck-up. Somehow the declaration of war got stuck and was delivered late.

    Nonetheless, I stand on the original etymological definition : "Terrorism" is about causing "Terror" in the population.
    To repeat the statement done by Uberbah a couple of level above : "If they aren't targeting civilians, they aren't terrorists"

    --
    "Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
    1. Re:Diplomatic fuck-up by bkr1_2k · · Score: 1

      I agree, I was asking why someone would basically add "cause emotional turmoil" to a definition of an act of war and then say it's a definition of an act of terrorism. The two are very different.

      --
      "Growing old is inevitable; growing up is optional."
  63. Agreed. by DrYak · · Score: 1

    Agree to disagree?

    Yes, why not.

    If only all opinion conflict could be resolved in such a civilised manner...

    --
    "Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
  64. Plausible Deniability by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

    How stupid are these people?!

    Could be. Or maybe somebody inside TSA wanted this to be public but has plausible deniability about leaking it.

    --
    My God, it's Full of Source!
    OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
  65. a CD or DVD by vaporland · · Score: 1

    broken in half, wielded as a razor sharp weapon?

    --
    Ask Me About... The 80's!
  66. Misleading by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Call me paranoid, but faking a poor redaction can also be an effective method of spreading misinformation.

  67. This is all Very Nice... by IonOtter · · Score: 1

    ...but I wanna see the ULTIMATE, the holiest of the holy, the Big Kahuna of top-secret files: The No-Fly List.

    You can post this security theater stuff all day, and they're only going to whinge and make the occasional farting noise over it.

    Post the No-Fly List if you really want to impress people. And watch cryptome and wikileaks go offline like a light switch.

    --
    [End Of Line]