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Craig Mundie Wants "Internet Driver's Licenses"
I Don't Believe in Imaginary Property writes "Craig Mundie, Microsoft's Chief Research and Strategy Officer, called for the creation of an 'Internet Driver's License' at the World Economic Forum in Davos, saying, 'If you want to drive a car you have to have a license to say that you are capable of driving a car, the car has to pass a test to say it is fit to drive and you have to have insurance.' Of course, there are quite a few problems with this. For starters, internet use cannot yet cause death or dismemberment like car accidents can; and this would get rid of most of the good of internet anonymity while retaining all of the bad parts, especially in terms of expanding the market for stolen identities. Even though telephone networks have long been used by scammers and spammers/telemarketers, we've never needed a 'Telephone Driver's License.'"
will they take away your license?
There's no -1 for "I don't get it."
Now I can tell someone they fail at the internet!
First links that link to blogs that link to articles. Then links to social networks to link to links that link to articles.
Where does the stupidity end?
that MS is just inviting crazy homeless people to come in and run their operations.
since when do laws stop the bad guys?
The road to ruin was paved with good intentions. However, that includes ludicrous ideas.
WTF a licence to use the Interwebs, that is bullshit and it will never happen. that is like saying you must have a licence to use a phone, or write a letter. how retarded is this guy any why is it news worthy?
Considering that enforcing a license requirement just here in the US would be nigh on impossible without rethinking everything and that the odds of doing anything of the sort worldwide is less than zero I'm left wondering just what problem this idea is intended to solve?
Hint, it ain't any problem we users have and it ain't a problem the network operators are having. And since the practice of allowing Microsoft products to connect to the Internet is the bulk of the spam/zombie/malware problem I guess we would license every host as well as user. Any any license scheme that permitted Microsoft crap to operate would be considered toothless and any that banned them would get called 'draconian.' No win scenario. The only winning move is not to play.
Democrat delenda est
Makes me think of Valentine and Peter trying to get on their father's "citizen access" in order to be taken seriously on the internet in Ender's Game.
Oh, wait...
Craig Mundie is making Dick Brass' point about Microsoft losing its competent people.
I'm a Programmer. That's one level above Software Engineer and one level below Engineer.
we need freakin "For Stupid Execs Forum Licenses" so jerks like these would STFU
Of course, it would be completely coincidental that Microsoft would offer training, software and certification to help get your Internet driver's license, right?
Add the first requirement of not using IE, and then we might entertain the thought, and start some serious discussion.
It was supposed to be a tale of warning about the pitfalls of technology and big government, not a roadmap for where we should be heading. I swear there's a certain class of people that don't understand that concept or maybe they do and they just really hope they get to be the masters pet.
There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
Although Google, et al can chip away at our privacy this would completely stifle free speech and dissent.
I know that some view ACs and their ilk as idiots clogging up discourse, but for a flip side of the coin how about the efforts to 'Out' Prop 8 contributors in Calif so they can be harrassed by gay activists?
-Not that I supported prop 8, but I do mod ACs up if they have something useful/interesting to say.
On the other hand, I don't disagree that there should perhaps be some required qualifications for hosting/administering websites, dealing with credit card transactions, userdbs, etc, but that is very different than (what I think) is being proposed.
I'm just sayin'
If this is an attempt at innovation, it's quite pathetic.
In other words, Windows doesn't suck - The users do.
The drivers license analogy is being used to shift some of the blame from the OS to its users.
These comments are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of my employer or colleagues...
Bruce Schneier had a pretty good takedown of this kind of argument just the other day.
Your mind is clear / The things that you fear / Will fade with how much you / Believe what you hear
So this is like a ham license for landlines which sort of *act* like public airwaves. It's actually not SUCH a bad idea -- it sure keeps the S/N ratio up in the ham bands. Even if the test is virtually unfailable, the overall sense of earned-privilege vs. god-given-right seems to add a few percent to the general level of maturity you get. It'll never happen though!
You should have to have a license to operate Windows. Any other OS you don't need one. Licensing should be issued by the nearest LUG for a small fee.
What the hell is this bonehead talking about? They have a 90% market share. Just make up a required course that people must take to buy your software and be done with it. Or make it so that IE doesn't work unless you have used a smart card that reads your license.
This is the best idea that this guy could come up with?
... if it's limited to people who *want to use windows* :-)
I'm a minority race. Save your vitriol for white people.
1. It would probably be illegal for the US government to require "drivers licenses" for general Internet use. The Internet is primarily a medium for the dissemination of speech, and the US government is prohibited from demanding that people obtain permission before speaking.
2. Even if done privately, requiring people to identify themselves for any and all uses of the internet is likely a bad idea.
"In prison you just have to shut your eyes and take it. Here you have to shut your eyes and give it."
On a thread that so richly deserves it. Here. Without undue prejudice:
HITLER!
HITLER!
HITLER!
HITLER!
HITLER!
HITLER!
HITLER!
"Speaking the Truth in times of universal deceit is a revolutionary act." -- George Orwell
'If you want to propose ideas you have to have a license to say that you are capable of forming coherent thoughts, your brain has to pass a test to show it is fit to operate your mouth properly and you have to have insurance.'
I knew this had come up before here on Slashdot...
http://tech.slashdot.org/story/09/08/28/1952211/Crime-Expert-Backs-Call-For-License-To-Compute?from=rss (slashdot.org)
How about this:
We implement licenses NOT for users, but for programs. You need a license to connect your application to the internet. We implement certain levels that your app must achieve in order to reach the intertubes.
If your application is TOO stupid or TOO buggy, you won't get a license.
No m$ program will get online for the next 5 decades, AND we would also get rid of people using facebook!. :D )
It's a win-win situation! (actually, nowin-nowin, since windows won't be allowed anymore
WTF am I doing replying to an AC at 5 A.M on a Friday night?
Click on this Cool Link , it's really cool.
Oh you clicked? Sorry, you failed. You are now banned from the Internet.
Seems like there are a lot of more important ones that should get priority.
I've seen many people on Slashdot suggest such a thing. Microsoft may be ridiculous, but it's likely they didn't come up with the idea.
In any case, the idea itself isn't terrible - it's only consequences of this that make it a bad idea (loss of anonymity, censorship, etc). The concept itself isn't a bad one. Loads of people aren't competent enough to not ruin it for everyone else.
If I were inclined to suggest something like this, it would be an ISP level thing. The ISP by default would allow you on to a NATted firewalled connection with a private IP address and filtering between hosts on the same virtual subnet. By passing a (standardized) evaluation or test or something, you'd be allowed IP addresses on the real internet. Sort of like a playpen for idiots.
These have the same problems as with a "driver's license", though, so I don't support them. Just saying Microsoft isn't nuts.
And keep in mind this guy shot down his own idea a few seconds after voicing it. I'm sure it was more like a thought experiment.
I have developed a truly marvelous proof of this comment, which this signature is too narrow to contain.
As much as I like to joke that some people need licenses to operate a computer or use the Internet, this would be a bad thing. We'd all end up with license numbers and sites would start to require us to register with those numbers if we wanted to use those services. For many Internet-based services in Korea, you must enter a citizen ID.
The article linked in the article posted here provides some context. He seemed to have been talking about this as a way of preventing cyber attacks, you'd have your license revoked if your computer was compromised and could be used in an attack. MS seems to have been trying to cover their asses: "It's not our fault, if we would just put this intrusive system in place, which has no chance of working, but more importantly would never be funded and never built, then the problem will be solved." The next time a problem with MS products creates a serious problem, they'll say "We told you so! If you had just put up a billion dollars to make the drivers license system, it might not have completely failed, and this could have been avoided! Your fault!"
we've never needed a 'Telephone Driver's License
Probably because you don't drive a telephone.
... and then they built the supercollider.
What has this guy been smoking?!
Simply a dumb idea. NeXT.
Excuse me sir but do you know what I pulled you over?
"Personal ownership is a hallmark of conservative capitalism. And I don't believe I am entitled to anything that I did n
Perhaps the licences should be handed out to Operating Systems based on compliance with web standards... I wonder if MS Windows would be given one?
Giving IE users a taste of their own medicine since 2005 - http://pods.-is-a-geek.net/
Instead of a license for users, there should be a license to write an OS.
Nobody at Microsoft would qualify, judging by the POSes they have released since the 1980s.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I for one welcome our new Free Speech Licenses.
Health Freedom is almost as popular as Freedom itself.
I'm NO fan of Microsoft (which I hold responsible for a lot of the malware problems on the 'Net), nor am I a big fan of PKI (I think the implementations are way to fragile), but I think there might be a worthy idea in here.
Drivers Licenses have two uses:
1. Certification of driving skills
2. A nationally recognized identity
Consider this for use #2...
So what if the government issued an "Internet ID Card", with PKI Certs, etc, that would be used to secure email, transactions, etc? This is by no means a panacea, but as a factor in 2-factor ID, it might well cut down on some forms of malware.
Yes, there -are- civil liberty implications. But we always have the tension between known identity and guaranteed privacy.
So as a form of tougher ID on the Internet, I think this deserves to be taken seriously, and the plusses and minuses (as established here...) should be debated.
If users are like drivers, then OS providers are like car manufacturers.
So let's require drivers licenses, if and only if Microsoft:
After all, dangers cars are just as serious as dangerous drivers, right?
Excuse me, why is anyone listening to what MS has to say about Internet security, again?
I just had a packet collision!
"Personal ownership is a hallmark of conservative capitalism. And I don't believe I am entitled to anything that I did n
Papers Please!
...the car has to pass a test to say it is fit to drive.... I'll get a license when Microsoft passes a test to say that Windows and IE are fit to drive on the Internet.
For a moment let us ignore the roadkill from blue screens and worms by the millions; just try to get a license for IE to render any version of HTML per specifications.
Hallowed are the Ori
This sounds like a marketing person annoyed that nearly everyone who is forced to fill out their stupid forms to get some needed content is telling Microsoft that they are 98 year old Afghan woman with an income over $100,000. I love power-tripping types like this: Lifeguards who seem to think that they are there to do anything but pull drunks out of the water. Police who think that they are there to do anything but pull drunks off their girlfriends. TSA people who think they are there to do anything but smell my feet. Politicians who think that elected office doesn't mean that they are really just failed real-estate people. Hall monitors who think they are popular. Waiters who think they have earned a tip by interrupting my conversation to see if everything is all right. Oh and failed programmers who think that by dragging their "Team" into meetings is the road to a great product. But I digress. Would an internet driver's license make the internet a better place? And more importantly who would collect the money for the licensing? That sounds like a monopoly that they could milk for decades longer than their slowly dying OS / Text editor business.
The test will need to be free of M$ based questions or any other vendor tied stuff the last thing that you need is for some Linux / apple / Crisco pro to fail over missing the M$ questions and the test and licenses better be free and not some kind of a fee based thing with M$ and others getting a kick back.
Didn't MS already try to get everyone to register for an Internet 'Passport'?
It's time we adopt Morgan's label, "the Interweb". Clearest term for the proles [because it contains 'web'].
"It's a doughnut stuffed with M&M's. That way when you finish the doughnut, you don't have to eat any M&M's."
Imagine by how much internet security would improve if we required some sort of internet competency test, that if, to use the internet, you had to prove that you don't trust Your-E-Buddy to deliver you the finest in genital enlargement pills?
I think this would be best explained with a car analogy.... wait, doesn't "Internet Driver's License" have a built-in car analogy?
My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
...and shouts to the four winds "I'm an Idiot!"
Just another attempt by to regulate and/or control the internet, I can just bet that he has a shiny Powerpoint presentation all prepped about how suited MS would be to manage the corporate planning and data management.
About as subtle as Vlad and the Count soliciting for charitable donations :
"to de Blood bank... I mean Red Cross, yes. No, you don't hawe to come in, ve vill be ower.. , Ve Vill send an agent by right avay! Oh yes it is wery conwenient for you, Ve know exactly vhere you are, I mean, ve hawe your address yes. Thank you for agreeing to be ovr wicte.. heh donor!"
Right down to the 'mvahaha!' and the obligatory Thunder and Lightning.
-Magdalene --"there are 10 types of people in the world, those who read binary, and those who don't"
Those are only the few questions I could come up with in ten minutes time. There are certainly many more beyond these. I would like to hear Mr. Mundie's answers to these questions along with the complete plan for putting this into place. I'll wait.
It's a very dark ride.
Where are all of the /. libertarians? What, are you people on vacation today? This is the stupidest idea so far this year! How could a libertarian possibly even consider this? What next, a license to use a cell phone? A license to operate the computer itself? A license to operate household appliances? A license to use a garden hose?
A license would never work, but, how about something that can be implemented in software, sort of like a breathalyzer test for a car that locks out the ignition?
We need some kind of "moron-alyzer" test that locks out your internet access in case of stupidity.
Because, if we sat idlely by, unnewsworthy retards would sign any old thing into law. A law that we would have to obey.
Such bullshit will only 'never happen' so long as there are intelligent people sufficiently informed and mobilised to oppose it.
Scientists point out problems, engineers fix them
altslashdot.org: The future of slashdot.
"Craig Mundie, Microsoft's Chief Research and Strategy Officer...
Oh, the irony. In the history of this beloved yet hated company, there has never been so much explained in so few words...
This idea is so asinine that I can't really tell if this guy was drunk, high, or just plain stupid when he came up with it. In fact, it is so asinine that if it were to ever come to light, his would be the first one I would revoke.
Craig Mundie, Microsoft's Chief "Research" and "Strategy" Officer really ought to try getting his own R&D shop under control.
Maybe he should be back in Redmond trying to fix his company's joke of an R&D process (ZUNE!!!) rather than pontificate at Davos to VIPs who actually might mistake him for somebody with a clue about technology.
Tech Public Policy stuff
There's no way Windows would pass any kind of Internet-readiness test, it gets viruses and lacks the basic network security features of Unix systems. So it is weird to hear this guy say our Internet "cars" need certification.
Do you think you need to take a test to use an iPad? The reason so many XP are out there is the massive user training to go to a newer Windows nets no productivity benefit, yet people trade in their old phones for iPhone and without any training the Web browser and a couple of key apps make them immediately more productive.
Apple is working hard so computing is easy, the Unix community is working hard so computing is safe, and Microsoft says you need to take a test and get a license.
Okay, I kid; this idea really sucks. I'm sure others here have picked up on this, but from just pondering it for thirty seconds:
I'm sure these questions can get addressed with enough thought, but I really hope this doesn't grow beyond that point.
The reason people accept the requirement of needing to qualify for a driver's license is that the cost of improper automobile use can lead to death.
Improper or untrained computer use has far lower risks.
I think what we need instead is a Computer Driver Test, which should include a basic theory test about general concepts behind computers. The computer is a tool for the brain. Stupid people should not be allowed to use a computer, not any more than blind people should be allowed to drive.
I cannot count the number of times I have seen variations of this kind of idea here in the Comments section of Slashdot. It's funny how the same idea stated by MS is quite suddenly reprehensible...
Is there any fool out there who would actually buy this awful argument?
Here, I have made one up too: We should have licenses for eating! After all, we need licenses to drive. And there are fat people in the world.
NON SEQUITUR.
IT. DOES. NOT. FOLLOW.
Is crime so rampant? Are people dying daily? If it is in regards to internet security why don't they make a separate infrastructure banking and other critical systems. Require a license / physical one time password keys or whatever for area's of intense security. The day the make my girlfriend apply for a license so she can play some stupid facebook game is the day we move out of this country. Some things are just too important to sacrifice.
Hey, what if we pour acid in our eyes and stare at the sun?
No, seriously... it's a better idea.
I nominate the banker who got caught surfing porn at work on live T.V. to hold the first license.
I also think that installing M$ software on should count as a point against you.
I feel MORE secure when people are required to learn rules before they drive. I feel LESS secure when the government decides who can and can't communicate.
I can understand a license to drive, but a license to communicate is stupid...no...it's scary.
Here's an easier solution. Have a button on every computer that when pressed, it erases the contents of the entire hard drive. At least some stupid people will be tempted to press it.
...this one is incredibly flawed. Different nation-states have different rules for licensing virtually everything (but not everything virtual, apparently) and getting any sort of concordance is highly unlikely.
Something tells me that if there was a license required for internet use the most common way to lose it would be involve bittorrent...
IE unsafe at any speed.
The people of the internet want Craig Mundie to STFU. But they will consider his whiny suggestion if he does in fact STFU and agrees never to apply for a license. They thought the internet was free, as in you are free to make an ass out of yourself, just as he does in real life.
This is a hacked account, for which the owner can not be held responsible.
Fix that for you - Craig Mundie: Microsoft's Chief Thief and Rip-Officer
How about we regulate the banks to provide real two-factor authentication for any online financial transaction? How about we set a standard for smart-cards (hell, add the capability to dirvers' licenses) and require that PCs come with smart-card readers?
If we just had these standards in place, they would pay for themselves extremely quickly.
A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
Microsoft doesn't want you to have to have a license to use the internet. Microsoft wants you to have to pay them for a license to use the internet.
required to safely operate MS-Windows?
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/50/B747-cockpit.jpg
Where are we going and why are we in a handbasket?
cause that could but Microsoft out of business... Windows; unsafe at any speed.
My karma is not a Chameleon.
*** internet use cannot yet cause death or dismemberment like car accidents can ***
Maybe he knows something about an upcoming Microsoft project?!
Hey, I know! We can tattoo it on the backs of people's necks! Seriously, somebody put this asshole up against a brick wall and give him a 21-gun salute.
Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
Exactly. It worked only because of special circumstances which will never again be repeated.
"Craig Mundie, Microsoft's Chief Research and Strategy Officer, called for the creation of an 'Internet Driver's License' "
Maybe all the really intelligent people left Microsoft a long time ago.
Of course, there are quite a few problems with this. For starters, internet use cannot yet cause death or dismemberment like car accidents can
Well, not YET. But wait until you see what WGA for Windows 8 can do!
I think it would be even better if we mandate a security licence for designing, implementing and deploying operating systems/web browsers/etc that access the network.
For example, if you tried that for a couple of decades and could not get it right, then maybe your licence should be revoked and reinstated only after proving you code correct and only in a limited market first. (For example, desktops only, no laptops, no wireless etc.)
I really hope this will get traction!
Sorry, officer, I don't have my registration with me.
That's alright, we can look it up through the Department of Machine Verification database.
[mumble mumble radio static squelch mumble]
I'll have to ask you top step out from behind the keyboard.
What's the matter officer?
This operating system license is for an obsolete OS and you're driving the latest model. Either you have a forged license or you're driving stolen software.
But office, I...
Keep your hands where I can see them! Get off that chair and get on the ground! ON THE GROUND. HANDS BEHIND YOUR HEAD.
[A bit over dramatic perhaps, but it's the only real reason to have a 'license'. After all, that is the name of the certificate with the serial number that's on the wrapper. It's yet another level of Genuine Admonishment.]
"I may be synthetic, but I'm not stupid." -- Bishop 341-B
They won't get away with Windows-only, but they could require that you get your OS from a certified vendor. For the Linux crowd that means Red Hat Enterprise Linux ($$$) and friends.
They could require some sort of DRM, perhaps with crypto signing that covers everything from the boot loader (checked by BIOS) down to the apps (only signed apps can make network connections).
There you go.
Fuck you Criag Mundie. Fuck you in your tiny dick hole, you elitist, ruling class, piece of shit. Shall we require government licenses to use our toasters and our televisions so that we will never burn our toast, and will be capable of understanding that not all TV, including the news is real, or good for us?
What the fuck Criag. Die in a fire.
If an MS idiot wants to talk anywhere outside MS campus he or she must show a license from 90% of people of the plant saying this person is allowed to talk.
As with all ideas, the only true arbiter of this proposal's utility is - and should be - the free market. If people are want to pay for an internet license, why shouldn't they be free to? I expect a lot of the same Linux liberals here on /. that bank on big government protectionism (in the form of the copyright laws that make anti-competitive devices like the GPL possible) will be the first to decry this potential market, they would love to regulate the internet to the point where sharing your CPU, memory, and all your intellectual property with everyone else on the network is compulsory.
A lot of the concerns in this case are overblown FUD. There is no motive for licensing companies to exploit their positions as gatekeepers of the public trust. It would be entirely against their interests to allow the types of activities in the summary to go on and if some should stray, the freedom of consumer choice as exercised in a free market would quickly put them out of business
Anyone who disagrees with this just doesn't understand that free markets have never really been tried. Any cases where unregulated free markets appeared to fail were really due to the inefficiency of big government, which can of course never be responsible for anyone's economic gains, but universally presides over private industry's failures. How cruel that this Craig Mundie will have his entrepreneurial spirit mocked and torn down by leeches with no innovative drives of their own, on the very internet which he is trying to protect.
For shame.
I'm okay with the idea of Internet Driving Licenses for users, provided they also implement MOT tests for Operating Systems.
(For those of you outside UK, the MOT is the yearly checkup of your car by a qualified mechanic, to make sure it's roadworthy).
Craig Mundie, what a total raving idiot that wants to take away our freedom. Put him in jail just for suggesting this and see how he likes his freedoms restricted. That's being polite about it.
Microsoft is the ultimate corporate whore. It will do ANYTHING for money. Google gets hacked and complains, while Microsoft sucks up to the hacker with its missing-tooth grin and says, "Hey, honey, come hack me."
Of course it's easy for Microsoft to see the world through China-colored glasses, when its vision is clouded by dancing sugarplum visions of money going from China to it instead of Google.
Wait a few days, and you'll probably read some quote from a Microsoft executive recommending running over people with tanks in large squares. Amd he'll posit it as though it were the most reasonable thing in the world.
I don't live in the US, does this mean i can't use american sites?
This also brings into question- much like the different classes of licence for vehicle transmission, will their be browser-specific licences ?
That Internet would go the way of ham radio...
Trying to install linux on my microwave, but keep getting a kernel panic...
Does Microsoft have a license for IE?
"If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
We need some kind of "moron-alyzer" test that locks out your internet access in case of stupidity.
I think those AOL disks are circumvention to the 'moron lockout'...
I knew I had seen this idea before...
http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20100131
You know, if it's not mandatory and someone can actually come up with a non-falsifiable way to do it (hahahaha), that's fine with me. I don't want to give out my "ID" to Slashdot or YouTube, for example, but it would be nice for things like eBay or etsy and other online retailers/merchants. It would also be pretty handy if you had the option to use it on certain sites like Slasdhot or YouTube or FaceBook or your personal/business web page so that it could be searchable and instantly allow you to give some level of confidence to people as to who you are.
Does he mean to imply that driving licenses have kept morons off the roads? I'm not so sure it is working around here...
I know I had seen this before.... http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20100131
Apple has already started requiring "developers licenses" to program for your Apple products. Now that they already have that in place it wouldn't take much to make an "internet license" next!
How about a license for OS and browser vendors to assure, with penalties, that the OS and browser are BUG FREE to indemnify us dumb users from the vendors fuck ups. Like 17 year old DOS bugs, recurring IE holes and service packs that are re branded as NEW OS versions with a price tag. How about finishing fixing the current OS before releasing a new one or not killing an old version, that works, to force us into buying the new buggy version. I would say there is plenty of room for discussion about all of these issues and we certainly need some regulation of software vendor business practices, maybe the politicians would like to get involved, just imagine the opportunity there.
Are you sure? I'm quite certain it's all porn and lolcat videos (and possibly turtles), all the way down.
"Mind, as manifested by the capacity to make choices, is to some extent present in every electron." -Freeman Dyson
Assuming this "Internet driver license" is a good idea, I wonder who should do the preparation, who should do the testing, and what type of office should hand out the certification. Should we have MS itself handling the preparation? Or Google? Or the government? Regardless of your thoughts on who should control, Internet is just a medium, like TV. Teaching how to use automatically put limits on the ability to experiment, to discover and to adjust to a new medium. Afterall, nobody thought us how to use a TV, or a phone. If you are rude or misbehave, then you will pay for it sooner of later, not in money, but in social skills.
So count me off. I rather give someone a PC with a browser and a few directions on how to start. The rest should remain totally in the end of the user.
*knock knock*
-Good Evening Officer.
-License and registration please.
*passes the license through front door*
-Was I doing anything wrong?
-Nope, just making sure... Hey wait a minute! This license is issued in Gambia!
*shrug*
So then, what's the internet equivalent of driving down the (information) highway with your blinkers on? Will there be a vision test? Can I use my RIAADAR detector?
Gotta love Microsoft. They can't control themselves, so they need to control the users to cover up. It's like saying a 55mph speed limit is the solution for cars that blow up at 60.
For justice, we must go to Don Corleone
Poor Craig, he hasn't been wearing his crash helmet or taking his meds again.
He usually just panhandles outside Microsoft and pretends he's an employee.
They think he's charming so they take him inside and give him a cup of coffee and let him sit at an empty receptionist station and play with an old windows 95 computer. Then he gets on his bike and rides home.
This time they've gone too far and taken him to the World Economic Forum as a joke. Later he was escorted from the premises for playing in the toilet in the womens room. Just how cruel and stupid do you have to be to work at Microsoft?
*Repent!Quit Your Job!Slack Off!The World Ends Tomorrow and You May Die!
Not that I support academic education in any way, but since educating children is mandatory, and curriculums can easily include internet use these days, and you're not going to place a minimum age limit for the licence, isn't this already covered? Grandfather in my grandfather, and teach your children. This isn't complicated. Quite frankly, I wouldn't mind if you did the same with actual driving -- make it a mandatory course in school. On the list of skills to get you a job, driving is way above most things -- even above typing for most industries. Certainly above calculus.
But really, topping the list of reasons why I don't support academic schooling is that there are only two certainties in life; academic schooling doesn't teach anyone how to do their taxes, yet absolutely everybody needs to do them at least once per year -- I have to do mine 25 times per year because my corporate taxes for two businesses are done monthly. But I will say this for academic schooling: it certainly taught me how to drop dead -- though I've yet to put it to use.
Bad idea or not, it's already being practiced in some places (chapters 9 and 10, near the bottom)
For justice, we must go to Don Corleone
> US government is prohibited from demanding that people obtain permission before speaking..
Somebody might want to clue in (lord knows he could use a clue about something) the POTUS. You know, the asshat/constitutional law professor that denounced the recent SCOTUS decision to their faces. And while you are at it you might want to clue in the asshat that ran against him in the '08 election. You probably remember the guy, the oathbreaker who co-authored the bill that is (thankfully) being (too) slowly dismembered by the courts. And don't forget the idiot! who signed McCain-Feingold while admitting it was unconstitutional or the guy who ran against Bush in '04 who is singing along from the progressive hymnal about the need to DO SOMETHING about the court decision. And don't forget 'all right thinking people' such as the NYT, CNN, WashPost, HuffPost, etc. who are all pissing and moaning about it and trying, with a straight face, to whip up an effort up to outright repeal the 1st Amendment if it can't be twisted into saying what they want it to say.
So no, I wouldn't count on our elected leaders to hold to their oath and defend our right to speak without asking their permission first and yes I'm just a little pissed off about that.
Democrat delenda est
I had mod points for this story but screw it. /. stories here and they are mostly about this company!
What the FUCK is going on in the Microsoft LALA Land these days?
You only have to look at the last 20 or so
1. Bill Gates Knows What You Did Last Summer
2. IE Flaw Gives Hackers Access To User Files
3. How Infighting Hampers Innovation At Microsoft
If anyone is still using their comedy Windows O/S for personal use, I'd have to question if they value their online safety and security. This is just ridiculous.
Absolutely, the INTERNATIONALnetwork.
.com and .net domains can now be registered
The moment any nation controls that, well we've lost. (and I'm looking at you, Network Solutions)
richard@lara:~$ whois root-servers.net
Whois Server Version 2.0
Domain names in the
with many different competing registrars. Go to http://www.internic.net/
for detailed information.
Domain Name: ROOT-SERVERS.NET
Registrar: NETWORK SOLUTIONS, LLC.
Whois Server: whois.networksolutions.com
Referral URL: http://www.networksolutions.com/
Name Server: A.ROOT-SERVERS.NET
Name Server: F.ROOT-SERVERS.NET
Name Server: J.ROOT-SERVERS.NET
Name Server: K.ROOT-SERVERS.NET
Status: serverDeleteProhibited
Status: serverTransferProhibited
[etc]
I need a license to use a car. I use the internet. Ergo I need a license to use the internet.
100% pure syllogism, beautifuly wrapped-up into a car analogy. I'm afraid many people will say: "yeah! that's true! we need an internet license!"
What we need is more education...
I believe it's time to declare Internet access to be a fundamental human right which cannot be legally denied except through standard criminal punishments (ie. jail).
Life, liberty, pursuit of happiness. Right to freedom of movement. Right to own property. Right to remain silent. Right to expression.
I humbly suggest we add: right to connect to the Internet.
The Internet is no longer a whizbang gadget with potential; it is the way we communicate. It is used for banking, entertainment, conversation, research, coordination, purchases, government facilities, mapping/navigation, finding employment...
The concept that this can be denied to someone without due course of law is utterly unacceptable.
A government is a body of people notably ungoverned - AC
Don't make me laugh.
Actually, I heard someone propose (semi-seriously , I think) back when the initial onslaught of AoL users hit the Internet and viruses began propagating that anyone using a computer running a Microsoft operating system should be denied access to the internet. (Things weren't so bad when AoL was mostly its own little closed world.) Just a few years earlier, you pretty much had to know someone with an internet connection -- say an administrator at a local college -- and show that you knew how to properly administer a computer system before you could even get a dial-in connection to send mail or transfer files via UUCP. Once the totally computer-ignorant masses running Windows-based systems began accessing the 'net, that's when things started going to hell in a hand-basket.
Mundie's license should require that applicants ditch their Windows OS before even being allowed to take the license exam. Any people out there want to figure the odss of that happening? I suspect that Mundie's idea of a license is merely paying some government department a fee and filling out an application. That's not a license but a set of identification papers. As in: May I see your papers? Mundie's almost certainly trying to divert attention from the fact that his company's crappy software is what's made the Internet the mess that it is today? The saddest thing -- to me anyway -- is that there would be people out there that are actually looking to Microsoft to provide a solution. Any parallels between Mundie's brilliant idea to fix the Internet and former Wall Street bankers trying to fix the economic mess they helped to create? Yet another example of the ideas in ``Shock Doctrine''?
CUR ALLOC 20195.....5804M
I'm almost willing to believe this was a statement Mundie made that falls in one of the following categories:
* It was a joke
* It was a statement taken out of context
* A bad joke taken out of context
If this is something Mundie is serious about then this is a frightening insight into how Microsoft folks think. Besides being an outright assault onto the First Amendment there's so many arguments against this that it seems like a harmless strawman argument.
It's significant to note that Microsoft are probably largely responsible for introducing the hordes of clueless newbies onto the Internet -- moreso than any other factor, EVEN AOL. Given their culpability in this mess I have a suggestion, an amendment to their idea if you will:
A mandatory Internet-use license that is ONLY compulsary if you are a Microsoft Windows end user.
Lets see how much Microsoft likes the "Internet License" idea then.
It's true no man is an island, but if you take a bunch of dead guys and tie 'em together, they make a good raft.
...if that carries a death sentence....
Ill miss Slashdot
The manufacturer of very dangerous cars responsible?
Porn is speech, haven't you seen The People vs. Larry Flynt?
Though at times it's a little hard to understand, as people keep trying to talk with their mouth full.....
Any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.
I'm in favour. No one should be allowed to send an e-mail to multiple persons without knowing what a BCC field is and how to use it.
Bert
People such as this girl would have to disagree... Except she can't, she's dead.
That said, communication in a reasonable manner should not be regulated, no.
Hell no, this is just a stepping stone to start taxing the internet!
I presume that youths will be denied licenses to the Internet.
Contrary to what the idiot think-of-the-children crowd would have you believe, young people are thinking humans, and need access to the Internet to learn and communicate. That all they think about is porn is a testament to how shallow and ignorant they are, and it is the children of these people who need 'net access the most.
A nation that bans is minors from the 'net will not be able to compete on the world stage in 20 years.
A government is a body of people notably ungoverned - AC
I guess the upshot is that if something like this happened, Vernor Vinge would have predicted it.
I think the term 'Internet Drivers Licence' is a poor description of what the original dimwit actually proposed, and it's not a new idea thrown around.
::]
Reading more about this it seems the core idea is a uniquely identical signature for any Internet activity, that corresponds to a person who is legally responsible for the transaction/connection/data payload.
Much as a drivers licence is a form of identification first and for most, gives you clearance for you to drive particular vehicles (commercial, passenger etc). That it also proves you have learned how to control a vehicle and obey the road rules is almost incidental (especially since it seems many drivers can't). A licensed driver is also legally responsible for the vehicle (for example in most nations the driver gets fined if the occupants don't wear seat-belts).
So this is where this idea begins to scare me and bothers me that no one has really read into thinking behind TFA. This is not about CERTIFICATION to use the internet this is about IDENTIFICATION on the internet.
Not only would China and the MafRIAA love this kind of thing, needs no explanation, but there are other parties that would love this too. Content providers and hosts, youtube, myspace, others would be delighted with the identification system since it positively assures they have no legal liability for the actions of the users. ISPs and the service provision sector would also have the liability moved to the licensed user.
It'd be a simple matter to block unlicensed traffic, and nobody can upload ripped Top Gear episodes to a youtube channel.
The internet would soon be divided into 'licensed' traffic and 'unlicensed' anonymous traffic. This would of course drive illicit activity into the unlicensed realm, thus further justifiying blocking such traffic all together and making it unusable even. You'd have to go get a IDL because the anonymous internet would be crap. Going further, routing would break down between the legal "whitenet" and the anonymous "undernet", thus another potential Internet apocalypse.
[:: Posting Licence: Authorized Licensed post under section 4 of the Internet Identies Act - 2018. IDL EU6434-3243-4356. United States of Eurasia. Long Live our Glorious Leader.
After logging in slashdot still does not take you back to the page you were on. It's been that way for 20 years.
“/ 1”
“/ 1”
“/ 1”
“/ 1”
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“/ 1”
sounds like the iphone app store. Oh yeah, we aren't developing for the iphone either. Flash is a better option in the "which proprietary is worse"
"Mundie and other experts have said there is a growing need to police the internet to clampdown on fraud, espionage and the spread of viruses." - From TFA
A bit rich coming from the worlds largest purveyor virus vulnerable software, almost single handedly responsible for the back doors that enable the above three threats. Rampant viruses are a feature of the Microsoft software environment, and not any other.
It sometimes makes me wonder (while tightening my tinfoil hat) if this is suspiciously convenient, as part of a plan to introduce a cyber police state. Ok, for sure, there are lots of interested parties out there pushing for this kind of thing - even quite overtly. Problem is though, for any such plan you need to have the worlds largest operating system vendor on side, which it seems, they do.
Microsoft has no interest and now no reason to get it's security sorted out.
After logging in slashdot still does not take you back to the page you were on. It's been that way for 20 years.
Craig Mundie is a f**king c**k sucker
Not that I'm surprised, at all, but I think this came straight from the Chinese Communist Party's list of wet dreams. What better way to control even the last remnants of political dissent, on the last place where it can still be (somewhat) freely expressed (the Internet)?
Well done Microsoft. You truly suck up majesticly.
"The agriculture ministry is not in charge of Gundam" - Japanese ministry official.
there's already a European Computer Driving License... thankfully not mandatory... however, the syllabus is written entirely around Microsoft software... and so are the exams... I strongly suspect that any Computer Driving License Microsoft proposes for you will have tests that can only be passed with Microsoft software as well...
Donald 'Duck' Dunn: We had a band powerful enough to turn goat piss into gasoline.
What about a license to announce vaporware?
Instead of trying to make everyone using the internet some kind of security expert perhaps its time to make computers handle more of the security decisions?
If the OS vendor cant make a good judgement, how could a normal user? A geek can, but here we have millions of users who want to do stuff, not act all computer technician.
Google has gotten it right with the specs and design docs for Google Chrome OS. They explicitly state the goal of the OS taking all the hard decisions and acting as a safety net should the user do stupid things. Thats how Windows should have been built instead of Windows UAC that dumps even more decisions onto the user. An internet license is just a way to further force the users to learn stuff the OS vendor should have solved years ago. Its also every suppressing states wet dream to be able to control who will be let onto the net and not.
HTTP/1.1 400
This is stupid for a number of reason. Even if this was implemented (which it never will be), it would end up being nothing but another fine to pay the government every few years for enjoying life.
.. a driver's license to release operating systems. Think of all the time and effort the world would have been spared, had Microsoft actually had to study up on this, fail several times, and MAYBE get their learner's permit at some point. It would have eliminated MS-DOS and, while I think the NT kernel would pass fine, we would have been spared the horrible arcane way the Windows GUI works.
But I think he really means an internet fingerprint... any activity you do online can be uniquely traced back to you. That's what this clown is really talking about. Only, like a "license" it works two-ways... not only can you be traced, but you can be blocked, based on your ID, as well. Maybe, er... "passport" is the word he was looking for. Oh, yeah, that's right.. this is the guy who was pushing Microsoft Passport years back. Also the one who was going around in the early 00's and maybe late 90's attacking the FOSS movement every chance he got.
So, I retract "clown" and replace it with "ass-clown". No reason to listen to him about this any more than anything else the guy's ever had to say. When he talks, it's in an attempt to make money for Microsoft at the expense of the public.
-Dave Haynie
What a stupid suggestion! Microsoft must start worrying about more important things like open source ;)
Translation: Mundie wants people to get on the Internet only if (1) they are trained in using Microsoft Windows or Apple Macintosh (the token "competitor"), and (2) if they are using a licensed Windows or Macintosh machine.
I'm surprised Mundie didn't use Wikipedia (Not Invented Here?) before he spouted off - there's already a driving licence for computers at least (though it strangely doesn't include Internet 'skills') called the
European Computer Driving Licence or ECDL for short. Although it started in Europe, it's spread worldwide ("European" becomes "International", so it's then known as ICDL) to 148 countries, including the US.
I seem to remember that it's very Microsoft-oriented though - the courses typically involve MS applications and probably don't consider alternatives (OpenOffice.org etc.) at all. I guess that makes it even more ironic that Mundle didn't refer to it. And, no, I've never taken the ECDL/ICDL so does that mean I'm guilty of "computing without a licence"?
The ECDL: Its been thought of already.
And its as much use as a chocolate teapot!
Without passing being human license, that is showing you are ethically and morally acceptable, a person has to be aborted. Passing license criteria is required before birth.
Just because people have licenses doesn't mean they're any good at driving. There's a surprising amount of shit drivers out there who earned their licenses fair and square.
you shouldn't be allowed on the internet.
you lose your license right away.
I love it.
Remember when you needed to be able to make a modem work and set up some fairly complex software in order to get online? The "average" person you found online back then was considerably more reasonable, well-behaved, and plain old intelligent than you run into online today. Sounds to me like he's suggesting a return to those days - and I could seriously get behind that idea!
This isn't about competence to use apps, it's about stopping people from being anonymous. A driving licence has two functions, proof of competence and a means of identifying people. The latter is meant in this story.
Really? I thought they were to circumvent my lack of disposable frisbees, ad-hoc coasters and instant mirror?
#1 Using IE gets you a ride on the Old Sparky.
The mere existence of the ACID test greatly improved browsers. A easy to run security test could have the same effect on operating systems. Manufacturers would try to out-do each others and end users would benefit.
The problem is creating a good test that anyone can run and creates a score that is comparable to others.
It is almost funny to think that all if not initiatives to "do something about Internet" come from commercial players. Non-profit players have absolutely no issue with Internet as it is. Because nobody but the commercial players has anything to loose, in fact for most of us Internet functions just fine. In fact, it is the commercial lousy security that in the first place created the market for the botnets that move around gigabytes of SPAM every hour. It is the commercial lousy security that exposes those "without a driving license" to all seeming dangers of Internet. They have everything to gain from such "final" solution - indirect user identification usable for all sorts of power abuse, decreased attack on their servers by botnets and less money thus spent on maintaining firewalls, and finally since big commerce and government like to pat each other on the back, they will be favoured by that very government, the latter also gaining a lot from the internet driving license implementation. Like I said, funny how all these idiotic initiatives come from commercial actors.
I want what he smoked.
so i don't need my own driving license
I think this idea should be extended.
What about a Consumer's License? You are not allowed to go shopping unless you prove you are capable of making rational choices and planning a budget.
Even better, and possibly more needed, a Parent's License - you are not allowed to reproduce unless you are willing and able to take proper care and responsibility for your offspring and their education. (Now that I think of it, maybe once upon a time there used to be something like that, but I can't remember what they called it... Marriage?)
In the long run we are all dead. - John Maynard Keynes (1883 - 1946)
Don't feed the troll of the article.
He's Just Another Manic Mundie.
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
Awesome.
(+1, Disagree)
It will be like a 'real' drivers license.
First it will be used to determine eligibility to 'drive'.
Then it will be used to determine age.
then Identity
The it will morph into RealID.
As much as I like the idea of finally ending the eternal September this will not work, it will instead morph into another control mechanism.
Mundie is one more fascist attempting to gain more control over our lives.
What will they want next, a license to garden, to reproduce, to breath...
It would mean 1 billion+ licenses. Besides there is no place in my wallet for one more license card.
I would suggest a course in schools on Internet security. And also installing anti-virus and scanning with it the disk on mom's and dad's computer next time. It is the platform of the DDoS attacks.
Nice kind mom and dad do harbor unknowingly the worst evil in their PCs - spam bot-net trojans and viruses, most often than not.
Attempting to force the end of a thread by mentioning Nazis or Hilter, with the sole purpose of invoking Godwin's Law, doesn't work. This is a common misconception, and it's based on a lack of understanding of how and why Godwin's Law works.
So, can you hear me in the back? Good, let's educate you all:
Godwin's Law requires that everybody believes in the SINCERITY of the poster who mentioned Nazis or Hitler in the thread, hence the "intentionality exception".
The Law isn't magical. It relies on a fundamental fact of human psychology: Nobody likes talking to a brick wall. My willingness to continue a thread relies on my perception that somebody MIGHT be listening, and MIGHT be persuaded by my comments. If that perception vanishes, my urge to argue any further also dies.
When we believe that the other party in the argument is truly irrational (i.e., schizophrenic-type REAL crazy), or has stopped listening to us, or even is just fundamentally disconnected from our side of the discussion, we'll just walk away and save our energies for something more productive.
A sincere mention of Nazis or Hitler suggests strongly that the poster has lost touch with us. If the original discussion isn't about Nazis, it's often a sign that the other party doesn't have a leg to stand on, and is falling back on a logical fallacy. If the other party in an argument is resorting to logical fallacies involving sensitive, borderline-offensive topics, you can be pretty sure that he's never going to come around to your side. After that point, your continued efforts are just so much wasted typing, and you go find some other thread.
> However, I'd support the idea of a five-hour safety course for first-time Internet users.
It didn't take 5 hours, but I taught something very much like that at my local library as a volunteer for a program they had to teach basic computer use to the general public. There were actually several different classes, but I made my own class on internet use & safety which covered common scams, viruses, good password advice, as well as what a URL and domain and browser are, searching the internet, and a few things like that.
Granted, there's no way to force people to attend, but I feel like I helped quite a few of my students, even if I was something like half their age most of the time. It was kinda fun standing in front of them at my age and pointing out that I had over two decades of computer experience (yeah, I really did start at about age 5 or 6, typing out the BASIC programs from the magazine 321 Contact into an Apple ][ GS).
I'm not sayin' he shoulda killed the ignorant user, but I understand.
Micro$oft whould be the ones selling the licence !!!??? OMG i guess the average IQ at micro$oft dropped to negative values
And you appear to be a troll. He i a VP for Microsoft and not just an employee. VPs set the direction of a company. Therefore what he says is the direction of Microsoft.
So, what happens if I write an encrypted mesh app that destroys geolocation and user identification all at once? Suddenly the Internet is much worse off, but I'll remain anonymous.
Think Tor, but more for just wreaking havoc.
I like how he says, "internet use cannot yet cause death or dismemberment."
USB missile launchers exist; what's next?
Doesn't this mean it will be easier to track activity online?
./ and looking at skeezy porn
I don't even want my roommates to know which websites I go to let alone M$.
I hope M$ like looking at logs upon logs of me going to
The world is how you make it
Yes, universal netizinship bar coding would be most efficient. While we're at it, let's confine everyone to one room where we can watch them at all times and make sure they're working.
Please do not read this sig. Thank you.
The idiots are already online. We can't retroactively test and license them.
Besides, Microsoft would never have been allowed online. Does anyone remember their "the internet is a fad" stance?
"People who do stupid things with hazardous materials often die." -- Jim Davidson on alt.folklore.urban
Of course, there are quite a few problems with this. For starters, internet use cannot yet cause death or dismemberment like car accidents can...
He has obviously not seen a man leaning over into the passenger seat of his car, furtively stabbing away at his laptop's keyboard while driving in rush hour traffic.
If that man had a mobile broadband card in that computer, and is busy trying to pull up a playlist on blip.fm/last.fm/pandora.com, and he manages to rear-end a mini-van in front of him that came to a sudden stop for whatever reason... and the kids in the back seat aren't buckled in, PLUS the airbags fail to deploy...
You've got a kid rocketing through a windshield to his death and possible dismemberment.
I'm sure there are better scenarios, but I have witnessed the man leaning to stab a laptop in the passenger seat. In the case I witnessed, it was just a smash of the rear bumper of the car in front of him at around 5-8 miles per hour. I can only imagine the results at 8 times that speed.
One of these days, I am going to flip out. When I flip out, I'll be back in five minutes.
For starters, internet use cannot yet cause death or dismemberment
How about we make companies get a licence to prove they can provide safe secure software? I'm sure MS would like that.
While I do think people need to take more responsibility and learn how to use their computer but forcing them to get a licence will probably prove nothing and just make it easier to track people and earn the government more money.
Driving can cause death and yet driver's tests are nearly impossible to fail. It's because everyone thinks it's their right to drive. Stopping people from driving would cause an uproar. The same will happen with computers.
Is this some sort of Microsoft insider joke gone bad? I mean seriously, this guy must have missed a few doses of his medication.
This is like Toyota trying to ask for more driver responsibility this week, if they were stupid enough to do such a thing.
We need licenses, eh? Okay, as long as we get to make MS recall IE because it's an unsafe vehicle.
Finally!
Think of a world without topposting, no more broken citations in email,
people actually learning to use that big button on the right that
magically breaks lines!
Think of a world where everyone reads the FAQ and the Fine Manual before
asking relevant and on-topic questions!
Think of the utopia with webdevelopers that knows and follows standards so
that websites can be used with the browser of your choice!
Finally september can be put to rest and we can see a new spring and summer
on the interwebs!
Wait a minute, Craig Mundie? Microsoft? Eh, crap...
Actually, a drivers licence doesn't mean you can drive a car, it just means you can pass a test. Drivers licences are just a source of revenue as will this bovine excrement
"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) H.L. Menc