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Criminals Hide Payment-Card Skimmers In Gas Pumps

tugfoigel writes "A wave of recent bank-card skimming incidents demonstrate how sophisticated the scam has become. Criminals hid bank card-skimming devices inside gas pumps — in at least one case, even completely replacing the front panel of a pump — in a recent wave of attacks that demonstrate a more sophisticated, insidious method of stealing money from unsuspecting victims filling up their gas tanks. Some 180 gas stations in Utah, from Salt Lake City to Provo, were reportedly found with these skimming devices sitting inside the gas pumps. The scam was first discovered when a California bank's fraud department discovered that multiple bank card victims reporting problems had all used the same gas pump at a 7-Eleven store in Utah."

332 comments

  1. Kdawson FUD by sexconker · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    How is this shit news for nerds?
    Any fucking fucking nerd has known about this tactic for decades.

    1. Re:Kdawson FUD by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 5, Funny

      We oldsters in the 1970's used to skim gas out of the gas tank. Some of the more ballsier-types would steal whole gas tankers. The fact that you can skim debit cards at the gas pump without spilling gas on yourself is a great technological improvement since you don't have to resell the gas.

    2. Re:Kdawson FUD by zx-15 · · Score: 4, Funny

      Hosers!

    3. Re:Kdawson FUD by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      Wrong! My grandfather stole horses. My father smuggled cigarettes from Oregon to Southern California. My brother stole gas. I, meanwhile, read Slashdot, which makes me a LOSER! :P

    4. Re:Kdawson FUD by BrokenHalo · · Score: 1

      The fact that you can skim debit cards at the gas pump without spilling gas on yourself is a great technological improvement

      Fortunately for the rest of us, it is usually reasonably easy to foil this kind of scam by making sure your hand is well covered as you key in your PIN, since most of these scams rely on a camera to record your PIN. Though I guess it should in some cases be possible to put in a fake keyboard with a keylogger.

      There has been a rash of these operations with ATMs around where I live, and it's occasionally possible to spot the "bad guys" sitting in a car nearby with a laptop.

      It's getting quite hard (even impossible in some cases) to distinguish dodgy machines from the OK ones. My suggestion is for all ATMs and EFT machines to be sealed with some kind of nationally or internationally agreed tamper-evident seal which can only be broken or replaced by the manufacturer or official service agent. Surely that can't be too hard.

    5. Re:Kdawson FUD by stonewallred · · Score: 1

      flamebait it is. But it would be news if they told how they did it, disclosed the methods of obtaining the skimmers, drew us some diagrams and maybe upload some spec sheets on the various pumps and the dimensional drawings. Then it would be tech news.

    6. Re:Kdawson FUD by stonewallred · · Score: 1

      And I thought I was the only one who used to go to the local rural station with an extension cord, electric pump, tubing and a five gallon can to get free gas for my motorcycle.

    7. Re:Kdawson FUD by dwillden · · Score: 1

      These devices don't rely on a camera, they recorded the PIN as it was punched in. And TFA would cite the one agency that reported 180 pumps, everyone else is saying it was the pumps at only one or two stations. The key weakness in this situation is that two manufacturers make all the pumps used nationwide. And they each have A single key that works on all pumps they make.

      Get one of those keys and accessing the internals of the pumps is a piece of cake. This article talks about this event and one local chain that had anticipated and addressed this weakness. KSL News

      --
      I'm too lazy to compose a creative sig.
    8. Re:Kdawson FUD by BrokenHalo · · Score: 1

      These devices don't rely on a camera, they recorded the PIN as it was punched in.

      TFA says "The devices typically include a scanner, transmitter, camera, and, most recently, Bluetooth- or wireless-enabled links that shoot the stolen data back to the bad guys."

      I can't see why they would need a camera if not to record a PIN being entered.

    9. Re:Kdawson FUD by moeinvt · · Score: 3, Funny

      My grandfather stole horses...
      My father smuggled cigarettes...
      My brother stole gas...
      I, meanwhile, read Slashdot...

      Jeesh, you're an embarrassment to your family's 3 generations of nefarious activities! Get your butt in gear and write some malware or something. :-)

    10. Re:Kdawson FUD by quadelirus · · Score: 1

      That's true, but if you are using a credit card there is no pin. Or if you, as I often do, run your debit card as credit then the gas pumps rarely ask for a pin. In these cases a camera isn't needed. Of course, this all goes to your point: I probably should be making sure that I enter my pin (by using my debit card) and then cover my hand to protect it. I think the camera is just a bonus. If they get your pin, then they can empty your bank account. If they don't, they can still flash a fake card with your card's information and use it as a credit card (except for online purchases which would require that 3-digit printed number from the back of the card).

    11. Re:Kdawson FUD by h00manist · · Score: 1

      flamebait it is. But it would be news if they told how they did it, disclosed the methods of obtaining the skimmers, drew us some diagrams and maybe upload some spec sheets on the various pumps and the dimensional drawings. Then it would be tech news.

      Just get a maintenance job for the things or make friends with the guys that do it..

      --
      Build your own energy sources from scratch. http://otherpower.com/
    12. Re:Kdawson FUD by LifesABeach · · Score: 1

      With all this weird news coming out of Utah, it could drive one to drink; and on Anarbor Day also!

    13. Re:Kdawson FUD by BrokenHalo · · Score: 1

      That's true, but if you are using a credit card there is no pin.

      Ah. Difference of implementation here, methinks. In Australia, a typical option with Visa/Mastercard transactions is "PIN or Sign". Always one or the other, and never neither. It's not an ideal system by any stretch, but it is usually sufficient authentication to resolve disputes.

    14. Re:Kdawson FUD by Stregone · · Score: 1

      In the states you don't have to sign at some stores. Like gas stations and fast food places. You don't normally spend bank account emptying amounts at these places.

    15. Re:Kdawson FUD by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      Utah is also the number one consumer of porn. Go figure...

    16. Re:Kdawson FUD by dwillden · · Score: 1

      True, but in this case the only victims so far had the debit card aspect fraudulently used. So the initial advice give to the public when this broke was "If you must pay at the pump, use credit not debit."

      --
      I'm too lazy to compose a creative sig.
    17. Re:Kdawson FUD by dave87656 · · Score: 1

      They now have very thin covers over the pin pad which then records your pin. You can't tell that the pin pad has been covered.

  2. Great by areusche · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I remember running into something like this a long time ago when I was in New York City. There was this small piece of metal in the card slot. Needless to say I didn't insert my debit card in to find out what it was.

    How do I protect myself from a skimmer inside a gas pump?

    1. Re:Great by YrWrstNtmr · · Score: 5, Informative

      How do I protect myself from a skimmer inside a gas pump?

      Pay cash inside.

    2. Re:Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't use the reader on the pump. If it's a prepay pump, inform the attendant (they won't care) and then corporate.

    3. Re:Great by zippthorne · · Score: 1

      Pay at the counter.

      --
      Can you be Even More Awesome?!
    4. Re:Great by Kitkoan · · Score: 2, Insightful

      How do I protect myself from a skimmer inside a gas pump? Pay cash inside.

      Or use a bike. Better for you and the environment too at the same time.

      --
      Attention... all grammer nazi"s! Is they're anything; wrong with: my post,
    5. Re:Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Stop buying gas?

    6. Re:Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or use a bike. Better for you and the environment too at the same time.

      Ride 50 miles one way to work on your bicycle.

    7. Re:Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You just created a much bigger problem for anyone living in Utah, where they have to drive 400 miles to get anywhere worth being.

    8. Re:Great by MichaelSmith · · Score: 1

      Don't use the reader on the pump. If it's a prepay pump, inform the attendant (they won't care) and then corporate.

      IIRC a scammer replaced the reader on a supermarket checkout at one point and skimmed a lot of cards.

    9. Re:Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In reality, theres not much you can do.

    10. Re:Great by Smallpond · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Pay at the counter.

      How does that help?
      http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2009/10/florida_skimming/

    11. Re:Great by interkin3tic · · Score: 5, Funny

      Ride 50 miles one way to work on your bicycle.

      Not too hard, I'd only need to do it once before my boss fires me for being 4 hours late.

    12. Re:Great by sdpuppy · · Score: 1

      How do I protect myself from a skimmer inside a gas pump?

      +1 Scroll of invincibility?

      Or you could always eat a yummy slime mold...

      XYZZY.

    13. Re:Great by eldavojohn · · Score: 4, Funny

      I remember running into something like this a long time ago when I was in New York City. There was this small piece of metal in the card slot. Needless to say I didn't insert my debit card in to find out what it was.

      How do I protect myself from a skimmer inside a gas pump?

      Step 1: Assume they're compromised.
      Step 2: Pull out the concealed Glock that every freedom loving American carries around and fire wildly into them.
      Step 3: If the machine is rendered out of order, move onto the next machine and go to Step 1. If someone tries to stop you, go to Step 1.

      But in all seriousness I think you could pick up a "preferred customer card" at some grocery store and carry that around with you. When you approach the pump, put that card in first. A compromised machine might feel weird and will most likely not respond to you inserting a card. An uncompromised machine will swipe easily and also think for a second and then ask you to reswipe your card. While not flawless, this is the best thing I can think of aside from prepaying at the attendant in the store or something really crazy like demanding to borrow a passerby's card to see if it works before you put yours in. It's also probably your best option if you buy gas after hours like I do. The unfortunate side effect is it wastes time and makes it look like you're flipping through maxed/stolen cards.

      --
      My work here is dung.
    14. Re:Great by interkin3tic · · Score: 1

      How do I protect myself from a skimmer inside a gas pump?

      Or use a bike. Better for you and the environment too at the same time.

      Okay, that's one problem avoided. So then how would one protect themselves from a skimmer on any other type of card reader, like at an ATM, vending machine, or a gas pump since no, you can't always just bike everywhere.

    15. Re:Great by zippthorne · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The counter takes cash.

      --
      Can you be Even More Awesome?!
    16. Re:Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Elbereth, scratched on the ground next to the pump with a gem ought to be enough. It's not like you're moving around.

    17. Re:Great by screamphilling · · Score: 4, Funny

      what if you're buying a bike and the credit card machine at the bike shop has a skimmer installed?!

    18. Re:Great by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Are you sure? Last time I tried to pay my pack of gum and a soda with a 50 (lacking smaller bills) the clerk asked if there's a chance that I have a CC.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    19. Re:Great by maxume · · Score: 5, Informative

      You seem confused. The skimmer is entirely parallel to the regular reader, it does not effect the operation of the pump.

      There will be no observable difference in the transaction.

      The most secure remedy is cash.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    20. Re:Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ride 50 miles one way to work on your bicycle.

      Here's an idea: don't live 50 miles away from your work.

    21. Re:Great by HybridJeff · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You could have said no. The clerk was probably just low on small bills and didn't want to clear them out if it wasn't necessary.

    22. Re:Great by jeffmeden · · Score: 1

      hah hah hahahahahahahahaaaahaha

      Where are my mod points, you sir wrote a good one.

    23. Re:Great by Mad+Merlin · · Score: 1

      Are you sure? Last time I tried to pay my pack of gum and a soda with a 50 (lacking smaller bills) the clerk asked if there's a chance that I have a CC.

      They don't like carrying large bills ($50 and up), and they also don't like making $48 in change. It's not unlikely that the register had under $100 in it at the time.

    24. Re:Great by John+Hasler · · Score: 1

      > Last time I tried to pay my pack of gum and a soda with a 50 (lacking
      > smaller bills) the clerk asked if there's a chance that I have a CC.

      I'm sure she would have been happy to keep the change.

      --
      Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
    25. Re:Great by shentino · · Score: 1

      Stick'em up!

    26. Re:Great by John+Hasler · · Score: 4, Funny

      > Pull out the concealed Glock...

      A "Glock"? Please. That's an Austrian pistol. Every freedom loving American carries an M1911A1.

      --
      Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
    27. Re:Great by Xaositecte · · Score: 1

      He's snarky yeah, but not a troll. WTF mods?

    28. Re:Great by fast+turtle · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That's why I don't have Credit/Debit Cards and only pay cash. Sure it's a PITA at times but I don't have to worry about this issue at all.

      --
      Mod me up/Mod me down: I wont frown as I've no crown
    29. Re:Great by SpazmodeusG · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No, pretty much all a card skimmer does is record the data on the magnetic stripe.
      They don't care what the data is or how the machine uses that data.
      A typical mag card reader that you can legally buy off the shelf will happily record the info on your drivers license or preferred customer card every bit as easily as on your credit card. Mag stripe cards have the data in plain ASCII text, credit cards included.

      If you've ever written a program that reads text data off a serial port and saves that data to a file you have all the knowledge you need to create a credit card skimmer that won't get confused based on what card is inserted.

    30. Re:Great by JustOK · · Score: 1

      Better yet, don't work 80 kilometers from home.

      --
      rewriting history since 2109
    31. Re:Great by pwizard2 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Not everyone lives in $big_local_city for a variety of reasons. (crowded conditions, crime, expense, etc.) If you live out in the sticks, (essential if you want to own a plot of land that is somewhat bigger than what your house actually sits on) public transportation or biking is not a serious option. Plus, who the hell wants to bike to work and get sweaty in the summer and freeze during the winter?

      --
      "It is a denial of justice not to stretch out a helping hand to the fallen; that is the common right of humanity."
    32. Re:Great by Kitkoan · · Score: 5, Insightful

      How do I protect myself from a skimmer inside a gas pump?

      Or use a bike. Better for you and the environment too at the same time.

      Okay, that's one problem avoided. So then how would one protect themselves from a skimmer on any other type of card reader, like at an ATM, vending machine, or a gas pump since no, you can't always just bike everywhere.

      Ok, on a serious note about the problem. How to figure out a solution to this problem. Issue is, there isn't a simple answer.

      Some might say we just need more education on the subject. But lets be honest. That won't work, never has, never will. People have been told that about everything from health (eat less processed/junk food, exercise more, ect... and as there are more people obese today then ever shows how well that works), to drugs (I've heard of the problems with things like crack since the 80's when I was born, and it's still being used today), to the basics of never share passwords but these things still happen.

      Others might say we need more surveillance with cameras and police. But this isn't working either with Britain having millions of CCTV and also being the most violent country in Europe ( http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1196941/The-violent-country-Europe-Britain-worse-South-Africa-U-S.html ). So this is also not a solution.

      Other things need to be taken into consideration. Why are these happening? People are need money more then before with a lack of jobs due to the recession. Also the ease of availability of these problems (these machines are showing up in more and more places). Also a lack of security in these newer forms of payment that are shown to be insecure ( http://tv.boingboing.net/2008/03/19/how-to-hack-an-rfide.html ) yet still forced upon the consumer due to the millions funded into these technologies and the fear of admitting these losses to shareholders.

      Many of these company's and people are no doubt hoping things like DMCA laws and their inclusion into global laws like the ACTA will help get rid of the problems since it will make the technology illegal (these break digital security locks). Thing is, again it won't work. Drug growers have shown that when these problems come about, people will just go underground and look for other ways to do this. This was shown during the Regan years of the war against drugs. As time passed, it was harder to smuggle weed from places like Afghanistan, so people started shipping hash. Same type of drug but smaller and easier to ship. After that came hash oil since it was again smaller and the law started to figure out about hash. When hash oil was found out, people started to look into hydroponics (a new growing method for plants of ANY kind) and found they could grow a better crop (better watered, feed, controlled, ect...) in the country bypassing the issue of smuggling it in.And just like pot dealers/growers showed that the law means little in the end to get what they want, same will happen with this and as with every crime in history.

      --
      Attention... all grammer nazi"s! Is they're anything; wrong with: my post,
    33. Re:Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Slashdot has a definite political slant, and anything that doesn't fit causes most mods to flip out and whine, "Troll!" or "Flamebait!"

    34. Re:Great by Kitkoan · · Score: 1

      Sarcasm is a dying form of humor I guess.

      --
      Attention... all grammer nazi"s! Is they're anything; wrong with: my post,
    35. Re:Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Too bad these whole "owning property" and "having a job" things are permanent affairs which you cannot possibly opt out of or exchange for a better option.

    36. Re:Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What an easy and realistic choice in this economy!

      Are you naive or merely stupid?

    37. Re:Great by nomadic · · Score: 2, Funny

      You communist. Real Americans carry not one but two pearl-handled, silver-plated Colt .45s, which they are permitted to shoot into the air and shout "yahoo."

    38. Re:Great by Jon+Abbott · · Score: 1

      Seriously... bikes work, even in the snow. 53 miles per burrito, baby!

    39. Re:Great by Itninja · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Or you could do what I do and just get a dedicated gas card from Chevron, Shell, etc. Then, even if it's scanned and compromised, all they could get are gas $40 worth of gas (and snacks) at a time.

      --
      I judt got a nre Kinesis keybiartf so please excusr ant egregiou typos.
    40. Re:Great by Jon+Abbott · · Score: 1

      Pay with cash... or gold coins perhaps? :^)

    41. Re:Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Not all of us work at the same place every day. I move between hospitals on a daily basis and my drive can be anywhere from 4 miles to 50 miles according to where I'm needed. Such is the life of medicine.

      Don't lump everyone into a nice little package.

    42. Re:Great by precariousgray · · Score: 1

      I suppose if I were to insert some sort of device between my keyboard and computer, in order to facilitate the capturing of keystrokes, that typing would then "feel weird," too.

      --
      not much, just being forced to manually insert line breaks into my comment
    43. Re:Great by Kennon · · Score: 1

      How do I protect myself from a skimmer inside a gas pump?

      I only use gas cards to buy gas at the pump and I pay the balance in full each month. These aren't cards with Visa logos on them or whatever they are just credit cards usable only at whatever station honors them. I have 3 of them that cover pretty much every major brand gas station in the US...as they are pretty much all merging nowadays anyway. I once lost my wallet and before I canceled my Union76/Conoco/Phillips/whatever card someone had already filled up like 2 cars and bought a bunch of stuff at the shop and rob at the gas station. A few weeks later when I got the statement I made one phone call and disputed the charges and they were removed from my balance immediately. Took all of ~5 mins, zero hassle.

      --
      "All those moments, will be lost in time...like tears in rain..."
    44. Re:Great by outriding9800 · · Score: 1

      How do I protect myself from a skimmer inside a gas pump? Pay cash inside.

      Or use a bike. Better for you and the environment too at the same time.

      Umm this is Slashdot. Don't you mean use a Segway?

    45. Re:Great by moderatorrater · · Score: 1

      If you're going to pay with a credit card at the pump there's no way to completely eliminate the problem. Paying inside should avoid this. If you're going to pay at the pump, using a debit card as a credit card (ie not putting in your pin) will give you greater protection since they won't be able to copy your card and use it at an ATM (the way these cards are being used so far).

      Also, always always always check your account. There's always going to be a risk of fraud, whether it's from a waiter running your card multiple times, skimmers, or accidentally dropping it and having someone pick it up. Catching the fraud will generally do more good than vigilance.

    46. Re:Great by Daengbo · · Score: 1

      You are an exception. Most people, though, could structure their lives so that they could do without a 160km/day commute. Most could do without cars at all.

    47. Re:Great by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      I'm starting to wonder when this type of crime is going to start being seen as an extension of our current corporate kleptocracy and just be accepted into the mainstream.

      Similar behavior is already common in our banking industry (or it was until Monday, when President Obama signed the new credit card regulations).

      Many of the biggest corporate "success stories" you'd read about in the Wall Street Journal work in fundamentally the same way: They don't actually provide you with any goods or services, but they somehow figure out a way to get a little taste of every transaction. Health insurance companies are a good example. They don't produce anything, really. They just collect several hundred out of every paycheck and then make a profit by making sure they give less back in the way of payment for medical services. What a business model! "Give me 100 dollars and I'll give you 80 back (minus administrative costs, so you'll really only get back about 60 dollars)". The financial corporations involved in derivatives is another example. They don't produce anything, none of the money that flows through them actually goes to providing capital to businesses like the stock market, they just basically write a few dozen pages of completely opaque description of their abstract 'derivative' which is based on absolutely nothing in the way of concrete goods or services, and then they sell them to other financial corporations who use the profits they make from the fees they charge you to hold your money to buy the derivatives on the assumption that they will be able to find a bigger sucker down the line to which they can sell this abstract item. And if the day ever comes where they can't find a bigger sucker, they just go to the Federal Reserve Bank, which is run by former employees of the financial corporation who's selling the derivatives, and get a bundle of money. It's the same thing Bernie Madoff did, but since they give more campaign donations, it's OK.

      Since the RIAA has such a stellar track record representing thieves, maybe these hackers can find a way to create a similar group. Start making political donations, run a few soft advertisements showing amber waves of grain and the american flag, and patriotic music and the next thing you know, these bank-machine-skimming hackers will be traded on NASDAQ.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    48. Re:Great by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      If you have to travel 50 miles to get to your job, then something went seriously wrong in your life.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    49. Re:Great by ceriphim · · Score: 1

      That's why I don't have Credit/Debit Cards and only pay cash. Sure it's a PITA at times but I don't have to worry about this issue at all.

      Which is unfortunate if you get pickpocketed, mugged, or just plain old leave your wallet somewhere. POOF! goes the cash. At least with my debit/credit card I can immediately call and cancel to prevent any fraudulent transactions. Cash is nice, but you're SOL if you lose it...

    50. Re:Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Step 1: Assume they're compromised.
      Step 2: Pull out the concealed Glock that every freedom loving American carries around and fire wildly into them. ...

      Aha! Another listener of Savage Nation, I take it.

    51. Re:Great by dave562 · · Score: 1

      After getting bit in the butt twice, I opened a second account with an attached debit card. I transfer a couple of hundred dollars in there every pay check and use it for gas, groceries and online purchases. If the account gets compromised I am only temporarily out whatever is in there.

      FWIW, the first time my account was compromised Wells Fargo contacted me. The second time I recognized the fraud and contacted them. Both times I had the money back in my account in less than three days. Both times it was only a couple of hundred dollars. I'm sure if I had lost thousands the remediation process might have dragged a bit more.

      The reality is that you have a couple of choices. As others have said you can carry around cash. Or you can simply accept fraud as a fact of life and mitigate the threat. Financial institutions are well aware of how prevelant fraud has become and they have processes in place to deal with it. I know half a dozen people who have been victims of fraud and not a single one of them has a horror story to tell about being held liable for charges they didn't make.

    52. Re:Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      me. sweat is more of a problem at - 20C than 30C

    53. Re:Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Instead of having some other random card... turn yours around and swipe it the wrong way first?

    54. Re:Great by dave562 · · Score: 1

      Beyond that, the recording software will most likely have a filter for credit cards. Ie, 4xxx..., 5xxxx..., 6xxxx..., etc. It's been a while since I spent any time with people into that sort of thing, but each card type (Visa, MasterCard, Amex, etc) has their own sequence. The first digit denotes card type. The first sequence of three or four digits denotes the issuing bank.

      As others have said, a mag stripe reader will read the card. The only hang up is finding a reader with the right number of tracks. Where as your library card probably only has one or two tracks, most credit cards and drivers licenses will have 4-5+.

      The big issue comes in when you want to BUY a 5+ track reader. Of course if you're doing that, you probably also have a fake ID.

    55. Re:Great by SydShamino · · Score: 1

      Consider the following:

      1. Cash and credit are very likely the same price.
      2. The gas price is (usually) set so the station can make profit despite having to pay the credit card transaction fee.
      3. The credit card transaction fee is set to cover the expected loss (to the credit card company) due to fraud, and set to cover the costs of cash back or airline miles/hotel points programs.

      Basically, by paying cash, you are still paying the costs associated with the fraud and cash back programs. And you pay more than I do, because I skim my cash back and hotel points off of cards that I pay off every month.

      May I personally have a slightly higher risk of fraud? Yes.

      May I have a slightly lower risk of losing money in the case my wallet is lifted? I think so.

      Does the few thousand dollars in cash back and hotel points I've reaped more than pay for the hassle of one of my cards numbers being skimmed (given that I would not have to pay directly for any charges)? I think so too.

      --
      It doesn't hurt to be nice.
    56. Re:Great by CharlyFoxtrot · · Score: 1

      The card reader manufacturers need to step up and protect customers. I hear in that here in europe the newer models prevent you from sliding in your card, instead feeding it in automatically in small movements. This should prevent the skimmer from having a clean "swipe" of the card and the machine then uses the chip on the card to get the data it needs. You could try manually emulating that behaviour (pushing in/out in little bits), though I don't know if it will work.

      --
      If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error.
    57. Re:Great by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 1

      Only terrorists use cash.

    58. Re:Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Plus, who the hell wants to bike to work and get sweaty in the summer and freeze during the winter?

      Summer's the real problem, at least without a shower. In the winter I've been warmer on my bike than those in their cars waiting for the $@%@ to warm up.

      Unless you have remote start. Hmmm....

    59. Re:Great by CharlyFoxtrot · · Score: 1

      newer models prevent you from sliding in your card, instead feeding it in automatically in small movements.

      Was trying to find a source because I couldn't remember where I had heard this and found :

      "The card reader firmware is modified to change the way a card is read. On insertion of the card, it is moved back and forth, at different speeds, while the card reader is reading the information. This process will stop skimmers that require simple motion in order to read the card."

      So unfortunately it looks like it will only work if the reader is correctly outfitted.

      --
      If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error.
    60. Re:Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      it's called bringing a change of clothes.

    61. Re:Great by GigsVT · · Score: 1

      Sure, and you could do without a computer. And without an apartment. Just think about how efficient it would be if everyone lived in communal housing.

      Also, making all different kinds of food is pretty wasteful too. We could probably engineer some kind of food that satisfies all needs. We should then force everyone to eat the same food as well.

      --
      I've had enough abrasive sigs. Kittens are cute and fuzzy.
    62. Re:Great by tftp · · Score: 1

      How do I protect myself from a skimmer inside a gas pump?

      Once you are inside the gas pump, relax - the skimmer won't see you there.

    63. Re:Great by frosty_tsm · · Score: 1

      You communist. Real Americans carry not one but two pearl-handled, silver-plated Colt .45s, which they are permitted to shoot into the air and shout "yahoo."

      Not all of us have "Patton" as our last name.

    64. Re:Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just get in shape. 12.5MPH on a bike is awful. Or leave early :)

    65. Re:Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am pretty sure that the way they did this from reading the article was by installing a wireless serial link. They did nothing more than install a transmitter into the card reader which outputs a serial stream, it will not be confused instead it will just transmit the data off that card instead acting as a transparent data interceptor. The machine will just reject the card and tell you the card could not be read or invalid card ect... So now they can clone your "preferred shoppers card" using a card writer and voila they can now steal your groceries too....lol I also noticed on the linked sites that a few people say that a car or other odd object would have to be in close proximity (to receive) in order for them to steal the information. Just so people know a (decent power) bluetooth transmitter about the size of a stick of gum can transmit over a football field. I wouldn't consider a football field to be in "close proximity" in the slightest since. Plus the receiver could be a box no larger than a (3.5in) external hard drive that is BURIED in the ground with 2 TINY antennas that look like sticks protruding up. People also think that the crook has to be there to get the data but this is FALSE! The box could contain a cellular modem that could literally text the information to the criminal EVERY time someone swipes a card. Technology is a lifesaver (I love it) but its also the devil for criminal assholes like these guys trying to leach off hard working people! In order to prevent this the gas pumps must be made TAMPER PROOF like the credit card readers at retailers. If the machine does not have a special code input into the panel BEFORE opening the panels it will immediately cease functioning, alert the gas station, cut power to the reader / disable it, and flash warnings to alert people that its out of order. The machine could be reset but only by a technician after they found out what happened. It's amazing that the machines don't have this already, people need to crack down on gas pump manufacturers about this. If a machine is compromised you have no way of knowing, the best protection is not to go to shady places to fill up and to check your statements every month. Any charges on your card that you didn't make no matter what the amount should be taken seriously and you should contact your card company immediately. People don't care about a few bucks missing but say a few hundred or thousand goes missing will you be worried then? The really funny thing was that they only got $11,000 from that gas station. Now does $11,000 with the chance of getting sent to jail for a VERY VERY long time sound like its really worth it? I didn't think so...... BTW a similar story broke a while back where people were using products from one of my favorite online stores to steal information and rip people off. What an evil use of there products it makes me so angry! http://www.sparkfun.com/tutorial/news/SparkFun-PINScam.pdf

    66. Re:Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or the people who whine about not getting DSL in the boonies can go sit in the corner with the people whining about the commute.

    67. Re:Great by terraStorm24 · · Score: 1

      I am pretty sure that the way they did this from reading the article was by installing a wireless serial link. They did nothing more than install a transmitter into the card reader which outputs a serial stream, it will not be confused instead it will just transmit the data off that card instead acting as a transparent data interceptor. The machine will just reject the card and tell you the card could not be read or invalid card ect... So now they can clone your "preferred shoppers card" using a card writer and voila they can now steal your groceries too....lol I also noticed on the linked sites that a few people say that a car or other odd object would have to be in close proximity (to receive) in order for them to steal the information. Just so people know a (decent power) bluetooth transmitter about the size of a stick of gum can transmit over a football field. I wouldn't consider a football field to be in "close proximity" in the slightest since. Plus the receiver could be a box no larger than a (3.5in) external hard drive that is BURIED in the ground with 2 TINY antennas that look like sticks protruding up. People also think that the crook has to be there to get the data but this is FALSE! The box could contain a cellular modem that could literally text the information to the criminal EVERY time someone swipes a card. Technology is a lifesaver (I love it) but its also the devil for criminal assholes like these guys trying to leach off hard working people! In order to prevent this the gas pumps must be made TAMPER PROOF like the credit card readers at retailers. If the machine does not have a special code input into the panel BEFORE opening the panels it will immediately cease functioning, alert the gas station, cut power to the reader / disable it, and flash warnings to alert people that its out of order. The machine could be reset but only by a technician after they found out what happened. It's amazing that the machines don't have this already, people need to crack down on gas pump manufacturers about this. If a machine is compromised you have no way of knowing, the best protection is not to go to shady places to fill up and to check your statements every month. Any charges on your card that you didn't make no matter what the amount should be taken seriously and you should contact your card company immediately. People don't care about a few bucks missing but say a few hundred or thousand goes missing will you be worried then? The really funny thing was that they only got $11,000 from that gas station. Now does $11,000 with the chance of getting sent to jail for a VERY VERY long time sound like its really worth it? I didn't think so...... BTW a similar story broke a while back where people were using products from one of my favorite online stores to steal information and rip people off. What an evil use of there products it makes me so angry! http://www.sparkfun.com/tutorial/news/SparkFun-PINScam.pdf

    68. Re:Great by Daengbo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I don't think that there was anyone talking about forcing anyone to do anything. In fact no one forced you to argue via reductio ad absurdum, but you did it, anyway. Isn't freedom nice? :)

      More seriously, most people could commute less. Many people could do without a computer (or ten). In fact, that's common in Asia, where gamers don't want to waste a bunch of money upgrading constantly. The game room absorbs the cost over many clients. More people could live in apartments or planned housing, which speaks directly to the AC that said he lives 50 miles from work in order to have a large house and yard. Not everyone needs to be Mr. Blandings.

      People get to make that choice: I don't want to let them pretend that they had no choice or were required to buy a house or an SUV, unless they were. Most people just want to keep up with the Jones, even if that means going into massive debt, commuting an hour and a half each way, and getting all the massive stress that goes along with those things.

      Me? I'll take a condo, a bike, public transportation, no debt, and two years' living money in the bank. It's better for my health. It's better for my future.

    69. Re:Great by Waffle+Iron · · Score: 1

      Pay cash inside.

      So now you just have to wait in line behind a guy being carded for buying a carton of cigs, another guy buying a stinking reconstituted burrito, and third guy who has to pick out numbers for his 8 lotto tickets.

      I wonder how the risk of actually running into a compromised card scanner stacks up against the risk of getting stuck in the middle of an armed robbery during all those extra hours of waiting around inside gas stations.

    70. Re:Great by BrokenHalo · · Score: 1

      Seriously... bikes work, even in the snow. 53 miles per burrito, baby!

      OK guys, the bike suggestion has been mentioned already. Enough. It's fine, but doesn't help much if your card gets skimmed while you're buying a burrito to fuel it.

    71. Re:Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I live about 20 min riding 5 min driving away from work. I would never DARE to do it. Everyone around here thinks the streets are a racetrack. Then the bridge over the interstate I would have to cross about 8 inches of leeway. Never mind people cruising by at 60 in a 45mph zone (of which all the roads between me and work are). Ride on the sidewalk you say? Oh that would be WONDERFUL if they had them. Also do not get too close to the edge of the road or you will be going down the 3-5 inch crevice between the road and the yards. Hope you dont wipe out. Move somewhere else you cry. That is an excellent idea in a housing slump and 4 other houses in my neighborhood that are for sale... NOT!

      Yes I would love to ride to work. But only if I dont like to live.

      The fact is there are cities that are well laid out for biking. Many are not. Most are setup for the boxes with 4 wheels.

    72. Re:Great by Capt.+Skinny · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Not everyone considers homes and jobs fungible.

      Some of us invest significant thought and effort into finding the right home in the right area, maintaining it well, making improvements (e.g. replace the Linoleum with tile one year, build a larger deck the next, plant trees in the yard after that), getting to know the neighbors, etc. Having pride in and enjoying a home can easily outweigh an hour or more commute, and giving that up can be a very big deal for some people.

      The same goes for jobs. Some people do in fact work for more than just a paycheck -- they identify with and take pride in their company and their work; they work hard not just to advance their career, but because they genuinely want to see the company improve and succeed. Here, too, giving that up can be a big deal.

      Exchange for a better option? It's a matter of personal preference. If being able to ride your bike to work is important to you, changing your home or job might be the "better option." Just know that for some, the current home and job are the better option -- and the commute is an insignificant price to pay for being happy with each.

    73. Re:Great by BrokenHalo · · Score: 1

      IIRC a scammer replaced the reader on a supermarket checkout at one point and skimmed a lot of cards.

      Here in Perth, Western Australia, there have been lots of cases where skimmers have been installed at fake food joints like McDonalds or Hungry Jack's.

    74. Re:Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Drop a lit cigarette in a gas puddle?

    75. Re:Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Dear coworker,

      That change of clothes just isn't cutting it.

      Sincerely,
      The cubemates of "The Goat"

    76. Re:Great by Laser+Dan · · Score: 4, Funny

      what if you're buying a bike and the credit card machine at the bike shop has a skimmer installed?!

      Use a car.

    77. Re:Great by MichaelSmith · · Score: 1

      IIRC a scammer replaced the reader on a supermarket checkout at one point and skimmed a lot of cards.

      Here in Perth, Western Australia, there have been lots of cases where skimmers have been installed at fake food joints like McDonalds or Hungry Jack's.

      Nothing at Dead Rooster?

      I think the case I recall was in Coles or Safeway in Melbourne.

    78. Re:Great by dwillden · · Score: 1

      Um, no they don't. It's not just snow lying on the ground that is an issue, it's when it's dropping out of the sky with a nice 20 mph wind as well. Add in traffic and it's nearly suicidal to try to ride to work.

      --
      I'm too lazy to compose a creative sig.
    79. Re:Great by dwillden · · Score: 3, Informative

      Good analysis. The skimmers in question were built by someone who knows their way around these pumps. They evidently replaced the entire panel. The device would read the card data, and record the typed in PIN. It then held the data until the paired Bluetooth receiver came in range and then would dump it's data.

      No need to sit in proximity to the compromised pump. I haven't seen anything on the storage capacity but I dare say who ever was doing this just downloaded when they filled their tank up, or when they'd stop by for morning coffee.

      The way they were able to make the switch is all pumps nationwide are made by only two manufacturers, and those manufacturers each have A key design to open their pumps. Two keys can open every modern gas pump in the country.

      All the perps needed to do was get access to one machine of the model used at the targeted 7-11. Rewire the front panel from that one. Make the swap and rewire the swapped out panel for the next pump they want to wire.

      Contrary to TFA, most reports are that only one or two stations were found to be compromised, but given time that number could have quickly grown.

      Up above I linked to an article about a Gas chain that heard of this potential scam, identified the weakness in the key system and re-keyed all their pumps with each store having a unique key pattern for its pumps. Not perfect, but makes the inside part of such an inside job have to be an employee of the store the pump is located at.

      --
      I'm too lazy to compose a creative sig.
    80. Re:Great by syousef · · Score: 3, Funny

      Ride 50 miles one way to work on your bicycle.

      Not too hard, I'd only need to do it once before my boss fires me for being 4 hours late.

      This is your boss. You're fired for slacking off on slashdot.

      --
      These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
    81. Re:Great by Black+Gold+Alchemist · · Score: 1

      Or, better yet, you could just use a skimmer to buy yourself one of these.

      --
      Responsibility is an addiction
      Virtue is a temptation
      Community is a cartel
    82. Re:Great by potat0man · · Score: 1

      who the hell wants to bike to work and get sweaty in the summer and freeze during the winter?

      Yeah, sucks being in shape, having your workout built into your commute and not having to pay for insurance, gas, maintenance, a gym membership, occasional emergency tows or parking.

    83. Re:Great by RealGrouchy · · Score: 1

      It's OK, you already have the bike, so you won't be needing the credit card anymore to buy gasoline.

      - RG>

      --
      Hey pal, this isn't a pleasantforest, so don't waste my time with pleasantries!
    84. Re:Great by rubies · · Score: 1

      How is it +5 insightful to admit publically that you're a complete physical wimp?

      Harden up, get on your bike!

    85. Re:Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I live 45 minutes away from work (by car). Living closer is progressively more and more expensive, as the suburbs that surround my workplace are super desireable. Also the roads were covered in snow today, like the are for about 25% of the year.

      GOSH A BIKE WILL FIX EVERYTHING I'll JUST BUY A MILLION DOLLAR HOUSE / 2k A MONTH APARTMENT THAT SHOULD SAVE ME GAS MONEY

      Mod parent troll.

    86. Re:Great by KraftDinner · · Score: 1

      Who says people who don't bike to work are out of shape? I don't see how one causes the other.

    87. Re:Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Plus, who the hell wants to bike to work and get sweaty in the summer and freeze during the winter?

      It's surprisingly cathartic. Try it.

    88. Re:Great by corsec67 · · Score: 1

      Uh, why not use a *Credit Card* so that you aren't out the money immediately, and have more fraud protection?

      Debit cards are much weaker, since you are out the money instantly.

      --
      If I have nothing to hide, don't search me
    89. Re:Great by iphinome · · Score: 1

      Patton used ivory. Only a pimp from a cheap New Orleans whorehouse would carry a pearl-handled pistol

    90. Re:Great by b4k3d+b34nz · · Score: 1

      Yes, I telecommute 1500 miles to work, because I prefer to live somewhere of my own choosing, near family and friends, and in an area of the country that I like. Obviously not everyone gets this option, but it sure seems logical to me that more people should have the option.

      --
      Grammar Lesson: you're is a contraction of "you are"; your means you possess something; yore means days gone by.
    91. Re:Great by L4t3r4lu5 · · Score: 1

      This is your boss. Well done for taking a pro-active attitude to right-sizing our workforce. More stick, less carrot, I say.

      By the way, you're fired for slacking off on slashdot.

      --
      Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
    92. Re:Great by selven · · Score: 1

      This is your employee. I quit since I'm not willing to work for someone who slacks off on Slashdot.

    93. Re:Great by Registered+Coward+v2 · · Score: 1

      > Pull out the concealed Glock...

      A "Glock"? Please. That's an Austrian pistol. Every freedom loving American carries an M1911A1.

      Glocks are also made in Georgia, which as a result of some misunderstanding in VA, is part of the USA.

      --
      I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
    94. Re:Great by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      I wouldn't pay too much attention to Daily Mail headlines. The UK is a much safer place than South Africa, the difference is we record most crimes where as in SA they go uncounted.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    95. Re:Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If your city does not have decent bike paths of pedestrian pavements, complain to the community council about it.

    96. Re:Great by xaxa · · Score: 1

      "There is no such thing as too hot or too cold riding a bicycle, only inappropriate clothing."

      It's true. I cycle to work. If it's cold outside I soon warm up from the exercise. If it's windy I wear my windproof, breathable jacket. If it's hot I wear a t-shirt. If it's really hot I'm more comfortable cycling than taking the train, as I create my own breeze :-).

      I don't smell, and neither do any of the other people that cycle to work. The only guy that smells takes for the bus (when it's quicker to walk, as he lives so close). He's fat and lazy.

    97. Re:Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Only being able to fill up $40 worth of petrol at a time sounds like a major inconvenience, though.

    98. Re:Great by xaxa · · Score: 1

      http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1196941/The-violent-country-Europe-Britain-worse-South-Africa-U-S.html

      Don't cite the Daily Mail if you can avoid it. (For the reason why, read the article carefully, looking for the facts and the opinion, and the "weasel words" like "may" or "could". Then see if the article has any relation to the headline. Unfortunately, fear sells this type of newspaper.)

    99. Re:Great by TroyM · · Score: 1

      Actually I occasionally bike to work. But last year, I bought some bike accessories through an online bike company A few month later, my credit card company notifies me that my card number may have been stolen - they cancel the card and issue me a new one. Then the bike company sends me a letter explaining that their credit card database was hacked and my card info may have been stolen, and they'd notified my credit card company.

      So I check my credit card purchases and find a couple hundred dollars in fraudulent purchases, call my credit card company and they canceled those charges. A bit of hassle in that I had to start using a new credit card company, and had to change some automated payments. But I wasn't out any money.

      My wife had her credit card number stolen a few years ago and it was a similar result - the hassle of changing credit card numbers, but she didn't lose any money.

    100. Re:Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      what if you're buying a bike and the credit card machine at the bike shop has a skimmer installed?!

      pay cash!

    101. Re:Great by Ciaran+Power · · Score: 1

      Plus, who the hell wants to bike to work and get sweaty in the summer and freeze during the winter?

      I do. You don't freeze in Winter for a start, if you're properly dressed. If you're worried about sweat then just bring a change of clothes with you. What 'out in the sticks' means varies between people too. If you don't have something majorly wrong with you there's no reason why an adult can't cycle 20 miles within an hour and a half. That's including traffic/lights etc. Cycling is fun. Sitting in traffic isn't.

    102. Re:Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ok, so if you're in shape it might take two days to get fired for only being two hours late.

    103. Re:Great by FloydTheDroid · · Score: 1

      Gah, twenty year flashback to Wasteland!

    104. Re:Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It depends on where you are in winter, you might be really cold/wet in parts of the country. And work isn't always an appropriate place to change clothes.

      And I don't want to waste an hour and a half in travel time, when I can drive 20 miles in less than 20 minutes. It lets me sleep later.

      Where I live, the traffic isn't bad enough that I have to sit in it.

      And don't forget the getting killed by traffic factor that's a much larger risk for someone moving significantly slower than most of the traffic.

      I'll stick to motorized transport, thanks.

    105. Re:Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or just, you know, drive.

      As a bonus, you don't get hot and sweaty, or freeze.

      And you don't contribute to wasting space on stupid bicyclists.

    106. Re:Great by anegg · · Score: 1

      > Pull out the concealed Glock...

      A "Glock"? Please. That's an Austrian pistol. Every freedom loving American carries an M1911A1.

      I live in the USA and I specifically chose a Glock over the standard design Colt .45 semi-auto. From a reasonable controls standpoint, the Glock has a much better set of operating controls that a) prevent unintentional operation while b) not impeding intentional operation (IMHO).

      If you are reading this thinking that all firearms are the same, firing just when the trigger is pressed in a conscious decision to fire and then always firing, you might be intrigued to read up just what can go wrong with a firearm, and how variations in firearm operating controls function. Pay attention to the endless debates about what "condition" to carry in, and why people advocate various carry states (round chambered, round not chambered, "cocked and locked," de-cocked, etc.).

      As an exercise for the reader, debate the pros and cons of "magazine safeties" under various threat conditions.

    107. Re:Great by Adriax · · Score: 1

      This is your janitor, give me his job with a 50% pay increase or I distribute those pictures from the christmas party of you and the secretary with the copier, the firehose from the third floor, and that poor, poor goat. Next time don't leave the memory card in your top drawer "cleverly" hidden under the candy bar.

      --
      I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it!
    108. Re:Great by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

      Really being a black hat is so appealing these days. Proper pay, you telecommute, and it's only slightly more dishonest than what you're probably doing right now anyways (I just helped a guy advertise his get-slim-quick fake health food. Ugh.) and way less dishonest than, say, being a bank manager. You're stealing people's money and they know you stole from them. Not "Um sorry but your stock portfolio did a reverse immelman and we were unable to defrangulate the hedge fund cross-investment ratios, can you hear me? Sorry that noise is the bonus checks raining on my desk" or some shit like that. You just...fucking...stole it...fair and square.

      Plus it can be as challenging as you want it to be and your hours are totally flexible. No morning commutes (or mornings for that matter), no phone calls to answer, reports to write up or deadlines to meet. You work at your own pace.

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    109. Re:Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or steal it!

      In fact, theft seems to be the final answer to avoid credit card fraud!

    110. Re:Great by dave562 · · Score: 1

      It's easier for me to practice fiscal discipline with a debit card because it is real money.

    111. Re:Great by T.E.D. · · Score: 1

      That's what I did too. Someone managed to get hold of mine, and by the time I'd noticed had charged up $20,000 worth of stuff. I'm not sure how they did it either, but apparently with those convienence stores it is quite possible.

    112. Re:Great by jafiwam · · Score: 0, Troll

      I don't give a shit what happens to the planet after I die. I don't have kids.

      What the heck is this invasion of eurotrash douchebags on Slashdot lately?

    113. Re:Great by BJ_Covert_Action · · Score: 4, Funny

      I know you're a Brit because you used the word, "Yank" - no one here says that. Few people will even claim to be Yankees.

      We laugh at people on the internet for blowing things out of all proportion. It's nicknamed, "a series of tubes," for a reason.

      I kept reading your post after I noticed the Score: 1 Flamebait moderation, sometimes they are too silly to pass up. Sorry you tea drinking, haughty twit.

      Say American next time. We won't even make fun of you for getting your ass kicked a couple hundred years ago by a bunch of degenerates with pitchforks and your uptight neighbors that have something against shaving.

      =P

    114. Re:Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm a computer scientist, I make near double the average household income for the US. I drive 50 miles to work. Why?

      Because where I work is located that far from where I want to live. I live close enough to the interstate and my job is close enough to the interstate that of my 100 mile commute, only about 10 of it is non-interstate, which means most of my commute is a straight shot, fairly uneventful, and shorter than you'd think given the speeds on the interstate.

      I drive a Civic, of course, for the gas mileage, and when I upgrade it I imagine I'll try for even better than the 35-37 I seem to average (highway/interstate driving reduces the hell out of the stop/go that eats mpg). I don't mind the drive at all; on the way home, I'm winding down after work. On the way in, I can jumpstart my thought process about work.

      I wouldn't change any of it. My home is where I want it to be, with family and friends nearby, and my job is what I've always wanted and I love the environment. It helps that I like my car and have an mp3 player hooked up to the speakers with a fine selection of music.

      Nothing went seriously wrong in my life. :)

    115. Re:Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You seem confused. The skimmer is entirely parallel to the regular reader, it does not effect the operation of the pump.

      There will be no observable difference in the transaction.

      The most secure remedy is cash.

      Since when does cash have charge back or a team of people protecting its value like a credit card's fraud department?

      Cash is for hookers and drugs, for everything else, there's MasterCard.

    116. Re:Great by Grapes4Buddha · · Score: 1

      You communist. Real Americans carry not one but two pearl-handled, silver-plated Colt .45s, which they are permitted to shoot into the air and shout "yahoo."

      These days, we shout "google".

    117. Re:Great by Kitkoan · · Score: 1

      ROFL. Wow, a Yank huh? Never hear anyone from anywhere say that word. Might be because I'm not American, no do I live in the US.

      And since I can find many sites using the word Britain, from the Royal Mint to the Royal family, makes it hard to know that it's a seldom used word. Just to let your ignorance know :)

      --
      Attention... all grammer nazi"s! Is they're anything; wrong with: my post,
    118. Re:Great by Kitkoan · · Score: 1

      http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1196941/The-violent-country-Europe-Britain-worse-South-Africa-U-S.html

      Don't cite the Daily Mail if you can avoid it. (For the reason why, read the article carefully, looking for the facts and the opinion, and the "weasel words" like "may" or "could". Then see if the article has any relation to the headline. Unfortunately, fear sells this type of newspaper.)

      Thanks, didn't know that. Try to use at least semi-decent places for news/facts (why I won't link to sites like The Register). In the end, it isn't a major issue. The camera's are there and there still is crime showing that its not a full-proof fix.

      --
      Attention... all grammer nazi"s! Is they're anything; wrong with: my post,
    119. Re:Great by kent_eh · · Score: 1

      "There is no such thing as too hot or too cold riding a bicycle, only inappropriate clothing."

      What's the appropriate clothing for riding a bike in deep snow or on icy roads or in a blizzard

      --

      ---
      "I can't complain, but sometimes still do..." Joe Walsh
    120. Re:Great by Itninja · · Score: 1

      I call BS on that. That would be pallets of Twinkies and Smoke-a-Roni snacks. All I did was drive two counties away and Chevron shut my card down for 'suspicious activity' (I had to call in to verifiy those were legit purchases). What's more, most (all?) gas pumps prevent personal gas cards from ringing up more than $100 a day (fleet cards are different). Are you sure it wasn't one of those gas card/regular credit card combos? Because that's a whole different ball game.

      --
      I judt got a nre Kinesis keybiartf so please excusr ant egregiou typos.
    121. Re:Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ride slower. I ride year round 5 days a week. Takes an extra 15 to 20 minutes for my commute. I ride faster when it is cooler and slower when it is hot. Sometimes when it is really hot I'll wet my hair when I start out. There is a shower in a small gym at work but I've never needed to use it.

    122. Re:Great by operagost · · Score: 1
      You're kind of like this guy, but with cars.

      I don't even have a bike. I walk everywhere, smug with the knowledge that no carbon was released in order to build a vehicle. How do you like that, Smugmeister?

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    123. Re:Great by operagost · · Score: 1

      Sucks worse being a haughty prick on the internet.

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    124. Re:Great by xaxa · · Score: 1

      It doesn't get cold enough here for me to know what clothes are best when it's really cold (below -5C, say). Good gloves and socks are essential, plus some warm layers. You will be surprised how warm you are from the exertion, but you wouldn't want to be cold if you had to walk slowly for a while.

      If you get that weather regularly you can buy studded bicycle tyres. I've never used them, but apparently they're really good. The other option is to let a bit of air out of normal mountain bike tyres, which provides more grip but makes it less efficient.

      Cycling on snowy/icy roads is easier than walking.

      Is that a major road? It's normally nicer to cycle down a parallel street with less traffic, but it doesn't make much difference if the traffic is stationery.

      Fresh snow is completely not a problem, other than being a bit more effort to cycle through. Compacted snow is OK. Black (smooth) ice is dangerous however you try and cross it, but if you steer completely straight and just keep rolling you probably won't slip over (obviously, if there are moving vehicles or pedestrians around it's stupid to try).

      The most difficult surface to ride on is rutted ice, when the snow has started to melt and then refrozen. The front wheel will try and follow the ruts made by cars, and you basically have to follow.

      Of course, you have to balance this up with the alternatives. My alternative, if I don't want to cycle home in a blizzard, is to walk 10 minute to the station and take my bike home on the train. (Although the train may well be delayed in this case.) This is a better fallback than being stuck for hours in traffic if there are a couple of accidents blocking main routes. Also, I cycle through a dense (ish) city, I might travel differently in snowy weather if it was "fast" roads between cities.

    125. Re:Great by kent_eh · · Score: 1

      yeah, it's a major street.
      I think the temp that day was about -10C. (it had warmed up enough to snow)
      The side streets don't get plowed nearly as often as the main streets, and get some major icy ruts.

      So far this winter I have witnessed 3 bike riders do spectacular involuntary dismounts due to road conditions. One fell in the path of traffic, the others landed on the sidewalk, but their bikes were launched under vehicles with predictable results.

      --

      ---
      "I can't complain, but sometimes still do..." Joe Walsh
    126. Re:Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If it was designed by Sam Colt or John Moses Browning, it's ok for Real Americans to carry. Of course, they can always carry one of each: .45LC in a shoulder rig, M1911 in a IWB/OWB holster, and the Glock strapped to the ankle.

    127. Re:Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ya should be one of those fancy folks from, whats the name of this country? .. ... Oh Europe, Europe! You are so smart, I personally think thats because you're so near to Japan, That Wpanese folks are pretty smart, Me, being an american, could care less bout other lifestyles, thats foreign stuff here you know, and since /. it's hosted in America, you opinion it's nothing more that academic, obviously nobody can live witout a SUV or commuting 1/4 of his day in that SUV, being mortgaged IT'S patriotic with those fellow bankers and our health system it's so good that I don't care what means does it take to haul my fat ass from A to B. You can be all the fancy ya want to be europener but this is how we live in the developed world. I know you crave being here and living like us, but well, we won a war or something and you don't, maybe you can try to make a new series of documentaries and win the war in them, maybe you can be developed world then.

    128. Re:Great by Daengbo · · Score: 1

      Hehe. Good tongue-in-cheek response. Just for the record, though -- I'm American, born and raised. ;)

    129. Re:Great by dave87656 · · Score: 1

      Do they still have those gas station credit cards? Then, at least, someone stealing your pin, could only use it for that brand of gas.

      Of course, you could pay inside and going back to my childhood, tell Frank to put on credit and he would pull out your 3x5 card and write it down, in pencil usually with greasy hands and at the end of the month you'd get a bill written by hand (his copy was created by placing carbon paper between two sheets). Ah, those were the days.

    130. Re:Great by alexo · · Score: 1

      How do I protect myself from a skimmer inside a gas pump? Pay cash inside.

      Or use a bike.

      I tried but it didn't fit in the slot.

    131. Re:Great by Jon+Abbott · · Score: 1

      Um, no they don't.

      Sure they do. I bike to work almost every day, even when it is snowing hard out and it is snowy/icy on the ground. You have to find a route that is as off-road as possible, and go through neighborhoods to avoid the busier main roads. The other thing is to live somewhere that has bike lanes for those times that you have to take main roads. About the only thing that has stopped me is bitter cold (below -10 F), and I just work from home those days. I wonder if heated gloves would work if they were hooked up to a rectifier and dynamo...

  3. This isn't new by MrCawfee · · Score: 1

    This is a fairly old scam.

    I remember atleast 10 years ago at an Arco station had a sticker on the machine that said don't enter in your card if the reader looks wierd. I have also seen that warning on swipe ATMs

    1. Re:This isn't new by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 5, Informative

      I remember atleast 10 years ago at an Arco station had a sticker on the machine that said don't enter in your card if the reader looks wierd. I have also seen that warning on swipe ATMs.

      The new part is that the reader does NOT look weird.
      It looks physically identical to the standard reader.
      Didja even read the summary?

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    2. Re:This isn't new by uberjack · · Score: 1

      Something like this happened to my mother once, though they used cameras to record the bank card's number and PIN, as she entered it. Then made $500 worth of withdrawals, in $1 increments.

    3. Re:This isn't new by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Didja even read the summary?

      This is Slashdot, id be surprised if he even read the title.

    4. Re:This isn't new by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      It's not new and the scam was actually used here at ATMs as well, not only putting an additional reader on top of the old one but also installing a video cam or a punch-through keypad on the ATM that recorded the keystrokes of your pin number. I was working for the security department of a bank when this was en vogue, and I still have a few of the confiscated cams and pads to prove it (strangely, nobody wanted them back...).

      The "new" part is where these swipers don't even look suspicious anymore. These "old style" tools could easily be identified by anyone who spends a few seconds eyeing the ATM or swiper for suspicious looking "addons". The new ones are appearantly impossible to notice.

      Guess it's time to send out a few consultation offers to some old friends of mine, I guess they'll appear here soon, too.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    5. Re:This isn't new by thePowerOfGrayskull · · Score: 1

      Something like this happened to my mother once, though they used cameras to record the bank card's number and PIN, as she entered it. Then made $500 worth of withdrawals, in $1 increments.

      Hell, if they're as slow as most people are at the ATM, that would've worked out to about $8/hr. At that rate, they might do better with honest work!

    6. Re:This isn't new by __aasqbs9791 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I just assume that half of all the comments on here are the result of millions of monkeys in front of million of keyboards, with some sort of quick check to filter out most of the comments without real words in them.

    7. Re:This isn't new by Stoutlimb · · Score: 2, Informative

      I'm a gas pump mechanic, and I'm shocked it's not way more prevalent. A handful of keys anyone can buy from a petroleum maintenance supply store without any questions, will open every gas pump on the continent. And most employees at gas stations don't watch their videos continuously, some don't even have video surveillance. The parts inside are easy to swap, as they are very similar to the way a PC is set up, with ribbon cables, USB, etc. I found myself staring at the card reading gear and be amazed at how simple the gear really is, and how easy to swap.

      Heck, the security is so poor on most pumps, that I could just crack a panel open a little, and with just a small pair of pliers and 15 seconds, make the pump give me a major discount on gas.

      Gas pumps are almost entirely built on security by obscurity. I've only ever seen a handful of gas stations in my travels that have any kind of security system in place to detect if the panels have been opened.

      That being said, I don't sweat about being ripped off at the pump, and I just go about my life worrying about much more important things.

    8. Re:This isn't new by wintercolby · · Score: 1
      FTFA:

      Bruce Schneier, CTO for BT Counterpane and author of the Schneier on Security blog, says attackers in Europe are also moving skimming devices inside gas pumps as a way to avoid detection. He says the perpetrators could be insiders, but it's unclear. "The moral is that they are getting better and better at this," Schneier says.

      If you live in Europe, this is probably the case, if you live in the US it's a device about the size of a SIM card in the reader:

      Sgt. Troy Arnold from the Sandy police department told a local news outlets that the device in the 7-Eleven gas pump was the size of a cellular phone SIM card and was affixed to the card reader inside the pump. "It's a small device -- Bluetooth, the size of a SIM card -- that is attached to the actual credit card reader. And as we are placing our credit cards or debit cards into these gas pumps ... it's not collecting, but it's just transmitting the account information, the credit card number, to a different device that's within the range of the Bluetooth technology,"

      It wouldn't take too much hardware or programming effort to build a detection system into cop cars, at least a 2 receiver triangulation device to pinpoint bluetooth transmitters would do it. Alas, I think they'd rather spend the money and payroll on catching speeders here.

      --
      Most ignorance is vincible ignorance. We don't know because we don't want to know. --Aldous Huxley
    9. Re:This isn't new by oasisbob · · Score: 1

      It wouldn't take too much hardware or programming effort to build a detection system into cop cars, at least a 2 receiver triangulation device to pinpoint bluetooth transmitters would do it.

      You are aware that Bluetooth transmitters are used for, uhhh, other things aren't you?

  4. or die by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    become fertilizer, no need to pollute

    1. Re:or die by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Decaying bodies produce methane and CO2, and both are greenhouse gases.

  5. Russian mob was doing this in the 1990's by DVD9 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    And yeah maybe it is an inside job. Paying clerks $6.00 an hour to work from midnight to 8:00AM does not buy a lot of loyalty. Where do you think most of the pilfered credit card numbers really come from? Try paying people a living wage and this won't happen. Employees who have to live with their mother are not adverse to listening to some ones criminal scheme, which to them sounds like justice rendered.

    --
    Why do "Al Qaeda" bulletins allegedly authored by Osama Bin Laden sound as if they were authored by Oliver North?
    1. Re:Russian mob was doing this in the 1990's by riker1384 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You gonna pay extra for gas from a station that pays its clerks "living wage"?

    2. Re:Russian mob was doing this in the 1990's by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except standing around with your thumb up your ass for 7 hours, and spending an hour mopping, and stocking cigarettes isn't worth more than $6 an hour. I used to work the 11 to 7 shift at 7-11. Oh, and all the free slurpees you can drink ain't bad either.

      Paying people more than the job is worth won't buy loyalty, unless you're paying them a lot more. And believe it or not, those are fairly low-margin operations.

    3. Re:Russian mob was doing this in the 1990's by John+Hasler · · Score: 4, Informative

      No. He expects the station owner to run it as a charity.

      --
      Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
    4. Re:Russian mob was doing this in the 1990's by Dalambertian · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Do you pay extra for cotton?

    5. Re:Russian mob was doing this in the 1990's by raddan · · Score: 4, Interesting

      That's a good point, and obviously the answer is 'no'. I recently had my CC # stolen by a pizza guy. I had just finished something like a 15-hour shift at work, I was tired, and I fell for a scam that, in retrospect, I should have caught on to immediately. Despite the fact that I ordered and paid for the pizza ahead of time, on the web, he told me that he "needed an imprint" of the card. Then he starts making the imprint with... his key? And then (and this is really where I kick myself), I take the original receipt and he goes, "Oh, nope, I need that one" and swaps with me. Of course, the carbon copy (which I am supposed to take but which he took) has the nicest key-imprint on it.

      About 45 minutes after this happened, my CC company calls me to check on purchases that were made not five minutes ago at a "discount clothing store in the Bronx" (I live in Boston). Now, I am certain that this is the source of the theft, because prior to that, I had not used the card in several months.

      My understanding is that the banks themselves don't absorb this loss because they pass it on to the merchant-- the merchant absorbs the loss. But I have to wonder whether banks (and credit card users) would be better (and cheaper) served by simply fixing these security problems now. Those fancy fraud-detection units can't be cheap. Our existing CC/ATM system is woefully anachronistic.

      I briefly asked myself, if this guy, who was Hispanic, and given his choice of profession, probably poor, deserved some sympathy when it came to CC theft, and I quickly decided: no. There are many, many other people who are in exactly the same position, or worse, and they choose to do the right thing regardless. CC thieves are thieves. They don't point a gun at you, but the end result is the same thing.

    6. Re:Russian mob was doing this in the 1990's by Ihmhi · · Score: 1

      Gas prices should be higher anyway.

    7. Re:Russian mob was doing this in the 1990's by SpazmodeusG · · Score: 1

      That's why the minimum wage should be higher. If everyone was paying a livable wage you wouldn't be paying extra from one gas station to the next.

    8. Re:Russian mob was doing this in the 1990's by precariousgray · · Score: 1

      When this is the only choice, as should be the case, yes. This would require someone to own only seventeen yachts as opposed to forty-two, however, so quite clearly this will not be happening.

      --
      not much, just being forced to manually insert line breaks into my comment
    9. Re:Russian mob was doing this in the 1990's by rworne · · Score: 1

      Getting an imprint is normal for pizza deliveries - or at least for Pizza Hut. The issue was the driver used the info on the receipt to fund a shopping spree.

      Not much different than my one instance dealing with CC fraud. In my case my CC info was lifted off of my mail-in college tuition payment as it sat on some processor's desk.

      --
      I tried every decent and legal way I could think of to resolve the issue w/the business before I rented the chicken suit
    10. Re:Russian mob was doing this in the 1990's by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Paying clerks $6.00 an hour

      I'm pretty sure minimum wage is $7.25/hr.

    11. Re:Russian mob was doing this in the 1990's by TrekkieGod · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Despite the fact that I ordered and paid for the pizza ahead of time, on the web, he told me that he "needed an imprint" of the card. Then he starts making the imprint with... his key? And then (and this is really where I kick myself), I take the original receipt and he goes, "Oh, nope, I need that one" and swaps with me. Of course, the carbon copy (which I am supposed to take but which he took) has the nicest key-imprint on it.

      First of all, as somebody else already replied to, card imprints from pizza deliveries are the norm. It's not a scam, it's something they do.

      About 45 minutes after this happened, my CC company calls me to check on purchases that were made not five minutes ago at a "discount clothing store in the Bronx" (I live in Boston). Now, I am certain that this is the source of the theft, because prior to that, I had not used the card in several months.

      Then it can't possibly be the dude. 45-minutes is nowhere near enough time. You think if the pizza delivery guy is running a scam getting credit card imprints that he's just going to get ONE and then run off and start using it? And at a store? Do you think he just took your receipt and handed it over to the cashier when she told him how much the purchase was?

      The actual imprinting scams involving scanning the magnetic strip, and making cards that people can use by actually scanning it at stores. I had my debit card skimmed (and so did a bunch of my friends, at the same time). The police eventually tracked it down to a waiter at a Ruby Tuesday restaurant. Apparently he would scan customers cards when he took our checks. It took months from the time he did so for the first purchases to occur, because the people doing the skimming are rarely the same people using the cards. They sell the information, other people make the cards, other people use them.

      I briefly asked myself, if this guy, who was Hispanic, and given his choice of profession, probably poor, deserved some sympathy when it came to CC theft, and I quickly decided: no.

      I'm going to assume you're not a racist moron, but I am wondering what the fuck him being Hispanic has anything at all with either being a thief or with a reason why a thief would deserve sympathy. Why did you even bother mentioning that factoid?

      --

      Warning: Opinions known to be heavily biased.

    12. Re:Russian mob was doing this in the 1990's by pitchpipe · · Score: 1
      Call it credit card "protection" money!

      Pay us or we'll break ya credit card's fuckin' legs.

      --
      Look where all this talking got us, baby.
    13. Re:Russian mob was doing this in the 1990's by Angst+Badger · · Score: 1

      You gonna pay extra for gas from a station that pays its clerks "living wage"?

      Why not? We're already paying extra so oil company executives can enjoy salaries and bonuses in excess of what would be a living wage for some entire countries, which is itself small potatoes compared to the enormous sums of tax money that go towards using the military to run errands for them in the middle east.

      --
      Proud member of the Weirdo-American community.
    14. Re:Russian mob was doing this in the 1990's by QuoteMstr · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yes, because if he's paid more, he and people like him have more money to spend on the things I make. A race to the bottom is bad for the economy and bad for society.

    15. Re:Russian mob was doing this in the 1990's by kramerd · · Score: 1

      Paying clerks $6.00 an hour to work from midnight to 8:00AM does not buy a lot of loyalty.

      Especially since federal minimum wage is 7.25 an hour...

    16. Re:Russian mob was doing this in the 1990's by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You gonna pay extra for gas from a station that pays its clerks "living wage"?

      Sure. You know of any?

    17. Re:Russian mob was doing this in the 1990's by ShakaUVM · · Score: 3, Interesting

      >>Where do you think most of the pilfered credit card numbers really come from?

      I had a friend (and no, it really was a friend, not me) that was involved in a ring of guys that did that sort of stuff out of Northridge. They'd take lists of CC numbers, pair them with PINs, reprogram some new cards using mag card writers, and then go to some place around 11:30, pull out all the money they could, wait for midnight to flip around, pull out all the money they could, split the money amongst them all, and bailed.

      They'd use card readers and compromised clerks to get the CC numbers, and shoulder surfing (I imagine) to get the PINs. They'd move from gas station to gas station randomly in the LA area.

      Now you know, and knowing is half the battle.

    18. Re:Russian mob was doing this in the 1990's by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, yes I would.

    19. Re:Russian mob was doing this in the 1990's by Capt.+Skinny · · Score: 1

      Not everyone needs a livable wage. The convenience store I worked at in high school employed mostly high school kids living at home and spouses of primary wage earners. For most of them, it was disposable income.

    20. Re:Russian mob was doing this in the 1990's by the_humeister · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately, the rest of the population does not agree with you.

    21. Re:Russian mob was doing this in the 1990's by xenocide2 · · Score: 1

      Ironically, people who pay at the pump are least in need of any clerk at all.

      --
      I Browse at +4 Flamebait

      Open Source Sysadmin

    22. Re:Russian mob was doing this in the 1990's by Auckerman · · Score: 1

      Despite the fact that I ordered and paid for the pizza ahead of time, on the web, he told me that he "needed an imprint" of the card. Then he starts making the imprint with... his key?

      Okay, here's how it works.

      If there an imprint of the card on the signed receipt AND the card was stolen, the merchant is not responsible for the loss when the card owner contests the charges. The underwriter of the card eats the cost. Here's the fun part. As per the contract, the merchant can't require the card to be present, at all, at the time of signing. Meaning the customer can deny an imprint and still get their purchase.

      The owner of store I run "requires" an imprint (as in, I tell the drivers to do it and fuss when they don't), but doesn't enforce the "requirement" at all (drivers never have a punitive response).

      --

      Burn Hollywood Burn
    23. Re:Russian mob was doing this in the 1990's by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When I worked at Dominos we were required to get card imprints. You just took the card, put it behind the receipt, and used some hard substance to imprint the number (I think the receipts had carbon or something). Eventually I stopped doing it because it was a pain in the ass to ask the customer for their card, when they probably put it away 30 minutes ago, and no one noticed. It was supposedly to prevent someone's kid from ordering without the parent's consent.

    24. Re:Russian mob was doing this in the 1990's by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In many cases the business is also in on the scam. The man who gets the cc# calls the business who fakes a charge with the CC#. The actual guy who steals the number gets a fraction of the profits but is the obvious fall guy,

    25. Re:Russian mob was doing this in the 1990's by Bent+Mind · · Score: 2, Funny

      Paying clerks $6.00 an hour to work from midnight to 8:00AM

      They still have those? I thought they replaced them all with card readers years ago.

      --
      Request a Linux Shockwave player here: http://www.macromedia.com/support/email/wishform/
    26. Re:Russian mob was doing this in the 1990's by advocate_one · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately, the rest of the population does not agree with you.

      most likely because they're also paid minimum wage and are living paycheck to paycheck and are looking for every saving they can find...

      --
      Donald 'Duck' Dunn: We had a band powerful enough to turn goat piss into gasoline.
    27. Re:Russian mob was doing this in the 1990's by orange47 · · Score: 1

      and the race to top is bad for the whole Earth.. it has to stop somewhere so "world is not enough"

    28. Re:Russian mob was doing this in the 1990's by bunkymag · · Score: 1

      CC thieves are thieves. They don't point a gun at you, but the end result is the same thing.

      Jesus. I know which I'd prefer.

    29. Re:Russian mob was doing this in the 1990's by Inda · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Around here they'll fix a new front to the ATM, making sure they cover the camera lens, rent the flat above a shop opposite and place a camcorder facing out the window.

      I'm still amazing that people don't cover the num-pad when in shops. There are CCTV cameras everywhere.

      --
      This post contains benzene, nitrosamines, formaldehyde and hydrogen cyanide.
    30. Re:Russian mob was doing this in the 1990's by xaxa · · Score: 1

      Minimum wage in the UK increases as you get older. (Numbers).

    31. Re:Russian mob was doing this in the 1990's by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I take it you haven't heard of this new fad called 'online shopping'. If the pizza guy had a few free minutes between deliveries then he had time to go buy some stuff, and all you need is the card number on most sites.

    32. Re:Russian mob was doing this in the 1990's by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I take it you haven't heard of this new fad called 'online shopping'. If the pizza guy had a few free minutes between deliveries then he had time to go buy some stuff, and all you need is the card number on most sites.

      Show me one one discount clothing store in the Bronx that has an online web presence, and then maybe you have a point.

    33. Re:Russian mob was doing this in the 1990's by quadelirus · · Score: 1

      "I'm still amazing [sic] that people don't cover the num-pad when in shops. There are CCTV cameras everywhere."

      You know, I hadn't thought of that until you just said it. Now I'm not sure whether to thank you, for pointing it out and making me more security conscious, or hate you for making me more paranoid. That totally blew my mind. (By the way, this is not sarcasm, I really hadn't thought of that).

      When I moved to London I was told to only use ATMs inside of banks, or get to know the look of an outdoor ATM very well so that you can tell if something has changed about it. I knew a lot of people who got scammed by the skimmers, but I never did. I used the same ATM unless it was one inside a bank, and I always covered my hand completely to enter my pin and even made a few false gestures to look like I was pressing other buttons.

    34. Re:Russian mob was doing this in the 1990's by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      According to your logic, the folks in wall-street are all pure, honest, angels because they make a decent living. Last time I checked, greed knows no bounds.

    35. Re:Russian mob was doing this in the 1990's by stdarg · · Score: 1

      Why not just request more pay for the things you make without doing any additional work? That's what you're giving to the gas station guy. It doesn't make sense.

    36. Re:Russian mob was doing this in the 1990's by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For the most part, gas stations stay open @ night to avoid huge insurance bills. The amount actually collected during the graveyard shift is pretty minimal.

    37. Re:Russian mob was doing this in the 1990's by jafiwam · · Score: 1

      The store probably has the "this card has magnetic strip problems" option just like every other store. Pizza guy calls his accomplice working at the store, reads off the numbers, and the store accomplice tries to charge the card.

      These types of crooks rely on the system not caring enough for the small time stuff to do anything to them. So a bit of obscurity and a state line is enough to keep them from jail time, which is about all they care to avoid. Losing the job,not a big deal. Getting a bad rep, what? amongst other drug users? Right.

    38. Re:Russian mob was doing this in the 1990's by raddan · · Score: 1

      I'm going to assume you're not a racist moron, but I am wondering what the fuck him being Hispanic has anything at all with either being a thief or with a reason why a thief would deserve sympathy. Why did you even bother mentioning that factoid?

      Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't realize that mentioning race meant that I was racist. WTF?

      I mentioned it because minorities in this country face pressures on a regular basis that I don't have to worry about, like-- not being able to get a job because the guy doing the hiring doesn't trust people who aren't native English speakers. That factored into my judgment about whether the person deserved sympathy for his act. The fact that you jumped all over me for just mentioning this shows how fucked up the entire conversation has become.

    39. Re:Russian mob was doing this in the 1990's by Paradise+Pete · · Score: 1

      Yes, because if he's paid more, he and people like him have more money to spend on the things I make.

      The US is pricing itself out of the world market with its "living" wage, and is each day becoming just a tiny bit less important because of it.

    40. Re:Russian mob was doing this in the 1990's by Pollardito · · Score: 1

      About 45 minutes after this happened, my CC company calls me to check on purchases that were made not five minutes ago at a "discount clothing store in the Bronx" (I live in Boston). Now, I am certain that this is the source of the theft, because prior to that, I had not used the card in several months.

      Then it can't possibly be the dude. 45-minutes is nowhere near enough time. You think if the pizza delivery guy is running a scam getting credit card imprints that he's just going to get ONE and then run off and start using it? And at a store? Do you think he just took your receipt and handed it over to the cashier when she told him how much the purchase was?

      You're assuming this guy's card wasn't just the last one in a large batch. The "discount clothing store in the Bronx" wasn't just an item bought online from Target.com and picked up at a Target in the Bronx or something similar. It looks like Target.com doesn't let you buy online and then pickup at a store, but some stores do that. And if the clothing store cashier was in on it too, couldn't they just do what you just described?

    41. Re:Russian mob was doing this in the 1990's by Pollardito · · Score: 1

      it looks like there is a Target store in the Bronx

    42. Re:Russian mob was doing this in the 1990's by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If they can also promise to never have skimmers, then yes?

      That is exactly how markets work.

    43. Re:Russian mob was doing this in the 1990's by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And the other half is violence.

  6. Nothing New by corychristison · · Score: 4, Interesting

    This got my credit card over a year ago in Saskatchewan, Canada. However, my card was skimmed at a do-it-yourself ticket-terminal at the local movie theatre.

    It turned out it was a very large network of people who came together and organized the attack and paid people all over the country to do this and sent the info back to 'headquarters' in Ontario Canada.

    They racked up over $600 in charges and it all appeared to have been used at Gas stations in Toronto / Missisaga in Ontario.

    They put these things on any 'do-it-yourself' terminal they could find. This included pay-at-the-pump gas stations, ATM's, and any kiosk that could read a debit/credit card.

    Luckily Mastercard covers things like this so it was much easier to report and reverse than a few friends of mine who had their debit cards skimmed. They had a much harder process to deal with.

    The move to "Chip" cards ([url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chip_card[/url]) are rapidly increasing these days. I know my local credit union is fully switched over, although maybe half of the retailers in town actually support them.

    1. Re:Nothing New by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A "very large network" grossed an amazing $600? Are they even trying?

    2. Re:Nothing New by ooshna · · Score: 1

      Probably meant $600 just from his card douche nozzle.

    3. Re:Nothing New by Zencyde · · Score: 1

      It's unfortunate that chip cards are still pretty useless from a security standpoint: http://www.silicon.com/technology/security/2007/02/06/chip-and-pin-hack-attack-demoed-39165665/

      I think Japan might have the right idea with using phones for this purpose instead of magnetic cards. At least with a phone you could always be required to transmit a couple forms of identity (let's say a thumbprint and a password) and the easiest path of compromise is to man in the middle the radio signals. Throw in some encryption and that should put it beyond the reach of MOST criminals. Sure, not everyone owns a phone. But how much longer is that going to be?

      --
      What day is it? Could you please tell me?
    4. Re:Nothing New by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The move to "Chip" cards ([url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chip_card[/url]) are rapidly increasing these days. I know my local credit union is fully switched over, although maybe half of the retailers in town actually support them.

      The Chip & PIN card system is broken:

      http://www.lightbluetouchpaper.org/2010/02/11/chip-and-pin-is-broken/

    5. Re:Nothing New by corychristison · · Score: 1

      That's a man-in-the-middle attack. While I'm not fond of them, chip cards will effectively remove the skimming problem (when it's fully adopted, anyway).

      MITM attacks will always be an issue.

    6. Re:Nothing New by pipedwho · · Score: 1

      That's a man-in-the-middle attack. While I'm not fond of them, chip cards will effectively remove the skimming problem (when it's fully adopted, anyway).

      MITM attacks will always be an issue.

      If they'd designed the protocol correctly, MITM wouldn't be an issue.

      You're right that the chip solves the skimming problem, but the faulty implementation opened up an attack vector where a stolen card can be used without knowing the PIN.

      Hopefully the chip & pin security problem is fixable without a total recall of all existing equipment and cards.

    7. Re:Nothing New by xaxa · · Score: 1

      It does at least require the theft of the card (at which point people should report it lost/stolen) rather than the duplication of a card.

      (Except if they duplicate the magnetic strip and use the card in a country like the USA, which doesn't have chip+pin. This has happened twice to people I know, but both times was noticed by the bank, which phoned to confirm the transaction.)

  7. Encrypt the data for starters by SillyKing · · Score: 1

    PCI (Payment Card Industry) will deal with this eventually, as traffic should be encrypted from the reader to the backoffice server or whatever brokers the transaction to the payment processor. What needs to be done is encrypt the card information at the reader at the pump, even if the information is transmitted via serial connection (out of PCI scope today). Prudent companies keep the keys to the gas pumps secure as well as do at least daily checks on the pumps (crack the box, look for skimmer).
    I suspect this type of skimming is more prevalent that is getting press for.

    1. Re:Encrypt the data for starters by 42forty-two42 · · Score: 1

      At some point, you have an analog signal coming from a pickup coil. If the attacker taps in there, no amount of encryption will protect you.

    2. Re:Encrypt the data for starters by mirix · · Score: 1

      Definitely... but the pumps should be harder to break open then, and someone should be checking them on a regular basis, to make sure they haven't been compromised.

      Although my assumption is it's probably in house, so they should probably have a third party be doing the checkups, not the $5.50/hr clerk...

      --
      Sent from my PDP-11
    3. Re:Encrypt the data for starters by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Currently, most SS pumps are designed to be open with one key, to change the receipt paper and manually record certain checks. Who's gonna pay for a two-key two-door system, or for a 3rd party?

    4. Re:Encrypt the data for starters by Stoutlimb · · Score: 0, Redundant

      As a gas pump mechanic, I can say that it's a battle just to get the owners to crack the pumps open once a month to check for fuel leaks and other safety issues.

      As for keys, a dozen keys will open every pump on the continent. I've never come across a pump that needed a unique key. Heck most gas stations won't even put pad locks on their underground fuel tanks. This sometimes leads to confused seniors in RV's dumping their septic tanks down there, thinking it was a sewer line made for motor homes... I hate to say it but most people involved in the gas station industry are so dumb they need helmets.

    5. Re:Encrypt the data for starters by Stoutlimb · · Score: 1

      Actually no, most gas pumps have more than one key. It doesn't help. See my above post.

    6. Re:Encrypt the data for starters by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I work at a retail store. We have a gas station. About a year ago, corporate put a process in place where the pumps get inspected by the store manager, sealed up, and a tamper-proof sticker is placed over one of the key bolt holes needed to open the machine. The seals are checked daily by the "$5.50/hr clerk", and weekly by a salaried manager. The extra seals are stored in the store vault, and must be logged out by a manager when taken.

    7. Re:Encrypt the data for starters by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A chip card doesn't use a pickup coil. It has a little contact pad instead, hooked up to a microprocessor.
      See here: http://www.howstuffworks.com/question332.htm

      Presumably, the communication between the CC company and the card is encrypted/decrypted on the card, and would be similar to attempting to decrypt an ssl connection from observing the packets.

      As well, the covert card reader would now have to hold the complete communication stream per 'lifted' card, instead of just the magstripe data per card.

  8. Who is the victim? by erroneus · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Let's define this scenario clearly. You put your money in a bank. The bank then gives you access to the bank's services. It's not access to "your" money so much as it is access to a money exchange service. (Think of an ATM and similar services as a vending machine that serves up cash and other things in exchange for the money in your bank account.)

    Now there are the criminal parties. These parties are the ones who come in and exploit weaknesses in the system to get cash and other things. In the course of exploiting these weaknesses, they use the credentials of other people to extract the cash and other things from the actual victims.

    Who are the actual victims? They are the banks themselves and they are the sellers of other things.

    When the people whose credentials were used in the commission of a crime against the banks and merchants are charged with responsibility for the criminal acts, it is the banks and merchants who are victimizing the people... their customers! The criminal performed their crimes against the banks and merchants. It is the banks and merchants who are passing the burden along to the innocent individuals who quite literally have no way to protect or control the situation. It is the banks and merchants who have the means to control and protect.

    Every time I hear "identity theft" and other referrals of uninvolved parties as victims of a crime, the lie bothers me. These banks and merchants have created a system that is weak and exploitable that uses its customers as a buffer and even a shield against those weaknesses. You cannot protect your "secret information" so long as it must be shared in order to use it. And once that information is out there and used, the banks and merchants take money from your account instead of theirs. The original victims are, in turn, victimizing the innocent by declaring that the innocents are victims of the original crime.

    I am sure there are plenty of people who disagree with my sentiments on the matter. But if you do, point out the flaw in the logic I presented.

    1. Re:Who is the victim? by randy+of+the+redwood · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Actually, my wife was a victim of this type of scam recently. They systematically cleaned our entire checking account out.
      I, like you, felt that the bank's money was stolen, not ours. I put my money in the bank, and had not withdrawn it, so this was essentially a remote bank robbery in my opinion.
      Where it gets interesting is this is EXACTLY how the bank treated it. They immediately refunded all money to the account, and then went after the fraud on the other end of the transaction.
      Not sure if all banks treat you this way, but B of A did us right. (And they are usually listed as the most evil of providers, so I tend to think they are not unique).
      I think identity theft was a real problem 10 years ago before it was understood, but now the banks realize it is not fraud by the victim in most cases and deal with it fairly.

      --
      The sun is the same in a relative way, but you are shorter of breath and one day closer to death
    2. Re:Who is the victim? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Try getting your identity actually stolen, down to the SSN and all vital statistics. The problem then is that while you may be who you say you are, the bank has no reason to believe you aren't the one scamming and hoping you can get all the money put back in the account. Be prepared for many hours spent on the phone, trying to recall inane details about your life (or the lives of those around you) in hopes of convincing the bank you are really you.

    3. Re:Who is the victim? by theskipper · · Score: 1

      Stories like this are scarier these days with the advent of debit cards. With credit card fraud, if it turns out that the issuer decides they want to collect the money from you then there are at least a couple roadblocks in the way. Once it's gone from the checking account though, all bets are off. And it really boils down to how much you're worth to the bank as a customer.

      Personally, I don't like the odds and that's why I store my bank issued ATM/Debit card in very tiny pieces down at the landfill.

    4. Re:Who is the victim? by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 1

      You can often get the debit functionality of those combo atm/debit cards disabled if you ask the issuing bank.

      Also, debit cards are even worse now than credit cards with the whole mandatory "overdraft protection" scam. All banks require "overdraft protection" on their debit cards (but not necessarily credit unions). They call it a "feature" but it is just a way to screw over people who think having a debit card is a way to enforce fiscal responsibility on themselves as in, "I can't spend it if I don't have it." Except with mandatory overdraft protection you can spend it and they nail you with a $20-$40 fee each time you spend over the balance of your account, even if it is just for a $2 cup of coffee. So, 3 separate $2 transactions will nail you with $120 in overdraft fees.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    5. Re:Who is the victim? by theskipper · · Score: 1

      Glad you mentioned that because I asked about disabling debit and was told it couldn't be done. Figured it was an across-the-board policy nowadays and didn't pursue it further. Not having the ATM functionality has been a pain in the ass.

    6. Re:Who is the victim? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't disagree... but if the system is so flawed then where does it need fixing?

    7. Re:Who is the victim? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also, debit cards are even worse now than credit cards with the whole mandatory "overdraft protection" scam. All banks require "overdraft protection" on their debit cards (but not necessarily credit unions). They call it a "feature" but it is just a way to screw over people who think having a debit card is a way to enforce fiscal responsibility on themselves as in, "I can't spend it if I don't have it." Except with mandatory overdraft protection you can spend it and they nail you with a $20-$40 fee each time you spend over the balance of your account, even if it is just for a $2 cup of coffee. So, 3 separate $2 transactions will nail you with $120 in overdraft fees.

      This has recently changed with what congress passed last year (assuming you are in the US). You now have to explicitly allow them to do that, (my understanding of it) is that they are no longer allowed to do it by default. I had a few calls about them (my credit card and my bank) trying to get me to authorize it, which I refused and indicated that I wish it had been the default all along, to which they both told me I could have always asked for that (of course I didn't know that since they never told me).

    8. Re:Who is the victim? by Rich0 · · Score: 1

      These banks and merchants have created a system that is weak and exploitable that uses its customers as a buffer and even a shield against those weaknesses. You cannot protect your "secret information" so long as it must be shared in order to use it.

      Yup - the whole system is flawed. There is no reason that the card reader needs to be a trusted device.

      The credit card should be a smartcard with an embedded RSA key. The card reader gives the card a transaction. The card displays the amount of the transaction on a built-in display, and the owner enters a PIN directly into a keypad on the card. If the PIN is correct, the card signs the transaction with a unique signature ID and a timestamp. The card reader passes the transaction back to the bank, which verifies the signature and then relays back a signed transaction cleared message, at which point the item is sold or pump turns on or whatever (for pre-authorizations like with a gas pump obviously the transaction needs to be tweaked a bit, but probably not a big deal).

      In such a model no component of the system is trusted at all, except for the smartcard (which the owner controls) and the bank (which the bank controls). The card reader is welcome to log every byte that passes through it, but it can't create another signed transaction without the key. Replay attacks are prevented by the signature ID - the bank would never accept the same ID twice.

      Credit cards are completely insecure. Anybody who can look at the card already has enough information to clone it. You don't even need to read the magnetic stripe - you just have a camera grab the numbers on both side you have enough info to clone the card.

    9. Re:Who is the victim? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There's many other things that could be done too. Take any subscription service: to charge my customers monthly, I have to come up with a way to securely store their credit card numbers in a way that I can read them, so I can submit them every month to my credit card processor. Right now, I have few enough customers that it amounts to a folder locked in a safe with the list of cards in it.

      I've asked my credit card processor if they've considered issuing public keys that I could use to encrypt, say, the credit card number, my merchant account # and perhaps even the amount of the charge, creating what would appear to me as an opaque "token", that I could then submit each month I want to charge that customer. I could then store these tokens in my computer and automate the billing process, entirely securely, possibly even provide my customers an online signup process where I'd never even see the card number. Of course, the answer was that when I process a few billion transactions a month they'll think about changing how they do things "just for me", until then we can continue typing the numbers by hand (and hoping my secretary doesn't run off with them) or spend the $bigbux on PCI-DSS compliance and all that jazz.

    10. Re:Who is the victim? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't like the way the credit system is set up either. I bet if you do a lot of fraud (and/or any other thievery), it's quite easy to keep your debts paid off and maintain a nice and healty credit rating on your own accounts. Especially since it's not your money being spent. It's the people you fuck over that get their credit ruined and can't get work or have trouble getting checks cashed, etc. The people that play honest and may lose track are the ones that get dinged. Thus credit scores really are completely worthless as a system of trust or credibility, and shouldn't be used for that. (If anything, credit scores should only be applicable and restricted to obtaining other credit or loans and nothing else.)

      So yeah, I do see where you're coming from.

      There needs to be some serious fixin' in legislation, but I figure the majority of current political office holders don't are afraid of upsetting their campaign contributors. Too bad too many people play the stupid party game such that they don't get thrown out.

    11. Re:Who is the victim? by noidentity · · Score: 1

      Every time I hear "identity theft" and other referrals of uninvolved parties as victims of a crime, the lie bothers me.

      Same here. The Mitchell & Webb Identity Theft parody perfectly illustrates how it's the bank who's had money stolen and been tricked, but is trying to reframe it as if it has something to do with you.

    12. Re:Who is the victim? by L4t3r4lu5 · · Score: 0, Redundant
      --
      Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
    13. Re:Who is the victim? by laddiebuck · · Score: 1

      Mitchell and Webb had a good sketch about this a couple of years ago expressing much the same thoughts but snappily and funnily. (Sorry!)
      Mitchell and Webb - Identity Theft

      That's the radio version; I've only seen the TV version (check out the DVDs, or just watch their sketches on YouTube, they're a surprisingly intelligent sketch show).

    14. Re:Who is the victim? by laddiebuck · · Score: 1

      It seems at least 3 of us posted a link to the same sketch. :) I hadn't realised M&W were so well-known!

    15. Re:Who is the victim? by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 2, Informative

      Yeah, the Fed prounounced that mandatory overdraft covers was verboten and that it had to be opt-in, but it isn't 100% - it doesn't apply to things like checks or scheduled payments and the change doesn't go into effect until July.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    16. Re:Who is the victim? by osgeek · · Score: 1

      This is entirely true. I put another post in this thread describing how to use digital signatures with your cell phone to avoid using easily obtainable information for payments. Rich0 describes that same method below. This is an easily solvable problem that banks don't give a shit to solve.

    17. Re:Who is the victim? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you have a decent credit rating, you can also get a line of credit to back the checking account drawn on by your debit card. You end up incurring the usual interest as with a typical credit card, and there are small "advance" fees (IIRC, $2 fee per the greater of $200 or the transaction amount). This means we never have an overdraft, even if the wife does something silly.

      Also, we never use the debit card in any "outside" POS or ATM; actually we'll only use the ATMs at one of the bank branches (and this is a rarity - who needs that much cash anymore). For gas pumps and anything like that, I have a low limit CC so that even if it is skimmed, it's not my money, and they can't get much out of it before hitting the limit. And our debit cards are Visa, so there's no need to ever enter a PIN, just sign as with a credit card.

      - T

  9. My solution for just about anything, actually by CorporateSuit · · Score: 5, Funny

    If you have a pair of sunglasses and a jacket, you should be good to go.

    1: Get a $10-$25 cash card from your credit card company
    2: Slide it through the card reader
    3: Light up a cigarette
    4: Spray gas all over the pump
    5: Slowly walk away, flicking the smouldering cigarette behind you, onto the pump. Speak a one-liner about gas, pumps, explosions, fire, smoking, or credit card fraud. It is very important NOT to laugh at your own joke.
    6: No matter how hot your back suddenly gets, keep walking slowly and DON'T turn around, (glass or shrapnel is going to hit you, it's better to take it in the back than in the face.)
    7: Never worry about gas pump skimmers for the rest of your life.

    --
    I am the richest astronaut ever to win the superbowl.
    1. Re:My solution for just about anything, actually by speedingant · · Score: 1

      Cheers for that ;)

    2. Re:My solution for just about anything, actually by ipquickly · · Score: 1

      1: Get a $10-$25 cash card from your credit card company
      2: Slide it through the card reader

      I'm sorry, but I messed up on #3, I don't smoke. So I had to do without.
      The clerk did look at me funny when I was spraying gas all over the place.
      Needless to say, I couldn't stop laughing at my jokes, but even some of the guys
      in the car thought those jokes were funny.

      In the end, I did get to #7:

      Never worry about gas pump skimmers for the rest of your life.

      However, I don't like the color of the room I'm in, and the meds they give me taste like sh*t.
      And I think I'm gonna report the room-mate they gave me. I think he's a little bit nuts.

    3. Re:My solution for just about anything, actually by Stoutlimb · · Score: 2, Funny

      I am a gas pump mechanic, and I've wanted to do the same thing sooooo many times!!!!

    4. Re:My solution for just about anything, actually by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 1

      You forgot whipping off your sunglasses and saying, "looks like they got... burned".

      --
      She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
    5. Re:My solution for just about anything, actually by nacturation · · Score: 1

      Suggested one-liners, preferably spoken with an Austrian accent:

      "Be sure to check under the hood!"
      "Fill 'er up."
      "Gas prices sure are sky high."

      --
      Want to improve your Karma? Instead of "Post Anonymously", try the "Post Humously" option.
    6. Re:My solution for just about anything, actually by L4t3r4lu5 · · Score: 1

      No matter how hot your back suddenly gets, keep walking slowly and DON'T turn around, (glass or shrapnel is going to hit you, it's better to take it in the back than in the face.)

      Cool Guys Don't Look at Explosions

      --
      Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
    7. Re:My solution for just about anything, actually by rebewt · · Score: 1

      One problem...FSC cigs (mandated now in all fiddy states) will likely put themselves out before you can flick it at the pump...yep...screwed by uncle sam again...

    8. Re:My solution for just about anything, actually by Jedi+Alec · · Score: 1

      There's 2 steps missing in there...the part where you put on your sunglasses and the YEEEAAAAHHHH at the end.

      CSI: Skimmers, coming to a network near you this summer!

      --

      People replying to my sig annoy me. That's why I change it all the time.
    9. Re:My solution for just about anything, actually by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

      YEEEEEAAAAHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
  10. Alternate title by drewm1980 · · Score: 5, Funny

    After waiting patiently for the US Government to implement a carbon tax, the ever-altruistic Utah mafia has decided to take matters into their own hands.

    1. Re:Alternate title by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Utah is full of mormons, why would they want a "carbon tax"?

    2. Re:Alternate title by cunina · · Score: 1

      Why would being Mormon affect your opinion about a carbon tax?

  11. Never use Debit by TheNarrator · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Obviously you have to use debit at an ATM, but at gas stations i use credit, even with my debit card, because once they have your pin they can get cash out of your account and not just do a credit card charge. The crooks would much rather have the greenbacks than having to buy crap with your stolen card and fence it.

    1. Re:Never use Debit by Mad+Merlin · · Score: 3, Informative

      The bank is also far more likely to go to bat for you over a fraudulent credit card charge than a fraudulent debit card transaction. The reason, of course, is that in the former case, its the bank's money on the line (until you pay them), but in the latter case, its your money on the line.

    2. Re:Never use Debit by TubeSteak · · Score: 3, Informative

      The bank is also far more likely to go to bat for you over a fraudulent credit card charge than a fraudulent debit card transaction. The reason, of course, is that in the former case, its the bank's money on the line (until you pay them), but in the latter case, its your money on the line.

      Actually... the bank is most likely to go to bat for you over credit card charges because the consumer protections on credit cards are vastly stronger than the protections on debit cards.

      I've never used a debit card for just that reason. You have a problem with your credit card and it's just the one card that might get frozen. You have a problem with your debit card and your bank account might get locked down, which usually leads to a cascading array of problems for most people.

      --
      [Fuck Beta]
      o0t!
    3. Re:Never use Debit by Nimey · · Score: 1

      My ATM card can also be run as a credit card -- so gas stations don't need my PIN, and never ask for it. Retailers will usually run it as an ATM card & require a PIN (saves them a small percent per transaction), while restaurants always do it as a credit card.

      --
      Hail Eris, full of mischief...

      E pluribus sanguinem
    4. Re:Never use Debit by RealGrouchy · · Score: 1

      The reason, of course, is that in the former case, its the bank's money on the line (until you pay them), but in the latter case, its your money on the line.

      Um, actually in the former case it's the merchant's money on the line. You don't pay the credit card company, they don't pay the merchant.

      - RG>

      --
      Hey pal, this isn't a pleasantforest, so don't waste my time with pleasantries!
  12. Use legal tender, huh? by macraig · · Score: 1

    This is but one reason why I use only cash to buy gas. The other is that greedy operators like ARCO will skim $0.45 off the top of every debit card transaction. I happened to be an early victim of debit card reproduction over a decade ago, before these current devices even existed; back then it apparently required collusion with a station employee to redirect outside security cameras and collect register data. The result was the same: my Versatel card was duplicated without ever leaving my possession, and then a withdrawal spree took place over three days at race track and casino third-party ATMs all over four counties.

    1. Re:Use legal tender, huh? by oasisbob · · Score: 1

      The other is that greedy operators like ARCO will skim $0.45 off the top of every debit card transaction.

      Ha! What an entitled thing to say. You're American, eh? If you think ARCO is being greedy, your ignorance is showing.

      The fee they're charging is to reimburse them for the cost of the debit card transaction, called an interchange fee. What started as a way for financial institutions to reimburse each other for the cost of transactions quickly turned into a way to profit. For ARCO, $.45 on a cheap-gas fill-up is a lot! That could blow the margin right there.

      When faced with debit card fees, ARCO has several options. They can either integrate the fee into their gasoline prices, subsidising the fee by prices which affect cash customers as well. Or, they can be up front and let consumers decide if the cost of the debit transaction is worth it to them. If it's not, the customer can go somewhere else, or bring cash.

      Most other businesses don't do this because they sell items on a higher margin. Gasoline is no such business. People use ARCO because they like cheap gas. If ARCO didn't charge the fee, gas wouldn't be as cheap.

      As an aside, if you see someone charging fees for Visa signature-based transactions, it's against the rules, and Visa would love to know about it.

  13. definitely an inside job by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    taking it to a new level, of course

  14. I guess I wouldn't be that hard... by adosch · · Score: 1

    Any gas station you go into now (unless its in podunk la-la land) has a crazy amount of security cameras all over out there monitoring pumps and to catch fuel pumping thieves. I would suppose the reason the high number of pumps that do get hi-jacked are places that aren't open 24-hours or have a douchebag clerk who "pushes the blinky light" to authorize fuel and doesn't notice someone taking apart the pump next to it.

    I remember when skimming waiters or waitresses with hand-held swipe devices was "the scam of the year". Someone is always going to 1-up the next I guess. However, it still is very surprising that this type of theft is still happening to begin with, though, and especially to credit card scanning card devices on gas pumps. That's like the bank leaving the door open on an ATM machine.

    1. Re:I guess I wouldn't be that hard... by MichaelSmith · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Buy a commercial van, outfit it with signage "Bobs fuel pump repair services" or some such. Carry the right tools. Make the attendant sign a receipt for the work. Turn up, install your stuff and go. Fake plates obviously.

    2. Re:I guess I wouldn't be that hard... by Stoutlimb · · Score: 2, Funny

      As a gas pump mechanic, I can say that most of those security features are just security theatre. Anyone with even 1 weeks apprentice knowledge of gas pumps can probably get into most pumps without notice, after hours or not.

      Also, a safety vest, hard hat, clip board, fancy business card, and an attitude will get you everywhere. Hell you could probably get them to turn off all their security cameras for "testing" purposes too LOL.

    3. Re:I guess I wouldn't be that hard... by markimusk · · Score: 1

      Thank you Sir!

      I've been reading your posts on this topic with great interest, heck how often do you find a gas-dispenser mechanic on /. on a story about gas-dispensing things? Has to be a first...how could that not be more relevant?

      I've been reading this god-forsaken site for ten years and have never seen a better match than that... heck, I haven't had a beautiful synchronicity like that here ever...

      Kudos to you!

    4. Re:I guess I wouldn't be that hard... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I work for a major gas station in Kansas. The major gas station i should say. This happened to our pumps a few years ago. Now whenever we change the receipt paper in the pumps, we are required to check for anything unusual in the pump and then put a tamper resistant "security" label over the door and lock. If the label is damaged, we shut the pump down and call maintenance to come check it out. Of course a few years before that, I actually caught a disgruntled petroleum supply employee who had stolen a key to our pumps from his boss, and was physically disconnecting the pump from the store before he filled up, so there would be no way for the employee to know he pumped anything, let alone how much. Then when the employee would come to see why the pump disappeared from the cash register, he would say, " its okay, I work for **** Petroleum Equipment. I'll figure out what the problem is, and put in a maintenance call for you." Luckily, I'm naturally suspicious of anything on two legs, so he got arrested when he tried it at my store. And I got a promotion.

    5. Re:I guess I wouldn't be that hard... by moeinvt · · Score: 1

      "Any gas station you go into now . . . has a crazy amount of security cameras all over out there monitoring pumps . . ."

      That's what I was thinking. How the hell do you pry off the front panel on a gas pump, install some extra hardware, and get it back together without anyone noticing? There's a link to an ABC affiliate site in the main story however(even has a couple of diagrams), and that story claims that they could install one of these devices in 30 friggin seconds! I still don't see how that's possible, but if it can be done in under a minute, it's explains the question of how it could go un-noticed.

  15. Not new by teknosapien · · Score: 1

    this took place in the Delaware county PA about 10 to 12 months ago. One of the tests they gave locals was to give the card swipe area a good tug before scanning Guess the front fascia would pull off easily and it wasn't the banks hat caught it, it was the local police & Wawa

    --
    no matter how good it is, it is human nature always wants to make things better
  16. Well, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Not with that attitude!

  17. fud? maybe, but it does happen by sneakyimp · · Score: 1

    It happened to me in Malibu. Bastards made some kind of copy of my debit card and spent $250 before my bank shut them down. Fortunately, my bank (wells fargo) restored the $250 to my bank account. I bet the gas stations where the fake card was used got stuck with the bill. Serves them right for not guaranteeing the financial security of their customers. They should keep an eye on their pumps.

  18. Re:Leave it to california by sneakyimp · · Score: 1

    Or Joseph Smith, Jr.

  19. hit twice... by PhantomHarlock · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I've been the victim of skimming twice. I love paying at the pump but it's getting out of hand. Even with a credit card it's the inconvenience of filing a dispute, canceling the card, etc. This time they laundered the money by buying five $200 wal mart gift cards with a cloned card.

    Here locally they say it's been the Fast Trip and AM PM stations that have been hit. The two with the lowest prices of course.

    1. Re:hit twice... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      https://www.speedpass.com/ ?

      I remember some gas stations introducing some sort of way to pay w/o using a credit card (I'm assuming it's RFID).

      Now, sure, someone could clone your RFID and use it to buy gas, but well, even if they buy at the cheapest gas station, I don't expect they'd get great returns. Nowhere near the value of cloning a card and buying upscale shoes.

      Speedpass seems to work in Canada too, https://www.essoextra.com/SpeedpassFaqHow.page seems to have a useful faq (the speedpass.com faq is split into too many parts). It looks like your pass could be used to buy out the contents of an Esso station, but I'd expect Esso to be a bit annoyed by such abuse and to use its video cameras to demand prosecution.

  20. Re:Leave it to california by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How does that differ from the nanny conservatives watching everything you want to do?

  21. That depends by copponex · · Score: 1

    Are you going to pay for the billions of dollars it costs to have our military constantly deployed to the middle east?

    There are about 115,000 gas stations. Let's say two clerks, open an average of 20 hours, gives m about 1.7 billion man hours per year. So, for about a month of expenses in Iraq, we could bump their pay from $6 to $13.

    And if you're worried about security, we could triple the size of the TSA, monitor every parcel of incoming cargo, and follow the Israeli's policy of personally interviewing every single person trying to enter the country. They haven't had a single incident since they started, and we'd still be saving money.

    Hooray for diversions!

  22. Kinda fun to see this on Slashdot... by MpVpRb · · Score: 1

    Off and on, over the last year, I have been employed as a contractor to the ATM industry, to develop anti-skimming hardware and software.

    When I started, I was amazed that skimmers worked at all.

    Now, I am truly impressed by the ingenuity of skimmer makers.

    BUT...in the end, our technology will defeat them...

    1. Re:Kinda fun to see this on Slashdot... by mikestew · · Score: 1

      BUT...in the end, our technology will defeat them...

      Much like the creators of "unbreakable" DRM, you assume that there is an end. I applaud your work, but don't assume what you produce won't be broken by someone before it's even in production.

    2. Re:Kinda fun to see this on Slashdot... by MaDeR · · Score: 1

      "BUT...in the end, our technology will defeat them..." No, it will never end. On bright side, you have permament job security!

      --
      What modern Obelix would say today? Of course, "Those crazy Americans!".
    3. Re:Kinda fun to see this on Slashdot... by MpVpRb · · Score: 1

      Maybe I should have said it in poorly overdubbed English in the tradition of "My Kung-fu is stronger than yours!"

  23. Smartcards by bearsinthesea · · Score: 1
    The problem is the entire infrastructure that pretends certain data is secret (PAN, track, CVV2), but makes you provide it to everyone for a purchase. The answer is to use smartcards, so that even if they intercept the data, they can't use it for purchases. We have strong systems, if they will just deploy them.

    This has driven down crime in the UK with their Chip and PIN system.

    Here in the states, the industry is pushing ahead with encrypting magnetic stripe readers, but that still does not protect you if the attacker taps into the read head before it is encrypted.

    I saw a device inside a gas pump in California two years ago. It was the size of a pack of gum, and made specifically to plug into the pump's cables. Small ICs, a pro job.

  24. Re:fud? maybe, but it does happen by buss_error · · Score: 1

    I have to say, despite not being very pleased in other ways with Wells Fargo, that they are on top of the game with fraud as far as I can see. I've had five separate issues with my WF credit card in the last year, all of which were handled swiftly (once before I even reported it).

    What I really want is a card that I can use for on-line purchases where I either transfer the money for the transaction in advance, or authorize it up to two hours later or it's canceled. I've looked (not very seriously) for two years, but I must be missing it. This seems an obvious evolution to CC use that benefits everyone. AmEx used to have a program like this, but I don't see it now. (NB: Gift cards - read the terms of service. These are NOT an option with those sorts of fees!)

    Another thing that needs to stop is revolving charges without cardholder approval. I once used a card to buy a 1 year subscription to a magazine for a friend, then after the year, spent the next 12 months, every month, contesting the charge. I finally closed that card to stop it at it was taking 3 hours a month to file all the paperwork.

    Last, there needs to be more enforcement done vis-a-vi credit card fraud. I administer a mail server farm - I see literally THOUSANDS of frauds sent every day. A swift, sure way to stop the merchant account is needed.

    --
    Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.
  25. Isn't this already solved? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    With chip cards, it's my understanding that even having the PIN, it is not possible to perform a transaction without the actual card. They should just swap out all the magstripes for chip cards for everybody. Surely that costs less than what they lose every year with magstripes?

    1. Re:Isn't this already solved? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well actually according to recent discoveries, with chip cards you don't even need the right pin.

  26. It will only get worse.... by Dthief · · Score: 0

    I'm excited to see how often issues like this occur when cards start incorporating RFIDs and other remote technology gets used to pay for things (like using punching in a number to your cell to buy something).

    --
    www.RacquetUp.org - Helping Detroit Youth
  27. Security Cameras by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Um, don't they have security cameras on the pumps? Eas

  28. Here's a wild concept... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Use Cash! F*ck all this electronic transfer stuff that banks and others haven't learned to protect yet!

    1. Re:Here's a wild concept... by mogness · · Score: 0

      Ya cool, I'll just walk around with a suitcase full of money every time I need to make a big purchase. That's much safer.

      --
      that's teh shizzle bizzle
  29. The pumps are the problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    I've been following this since first I heard about it a week or two ago. My first thought was that it HAD to be an inside job for someone to be able to access the pumps since they are locked with keys. Then I ran across this article that says there are basically one or two key configurations for all pumps across the country:

    http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=148&sid=9782411

    1. Re:The pumps are the problem by Shadow-isoHunt · · Score: 1

      I can pick locks just as fast as I can use a key - faster in the case of my apartment's outter door... that lock sucks - and it didn't take much practice at all. Locks are for keeping honest people honest, nothing more.

      --
      www.isoHunt.com
  30. wow..... by trum4n · · Score: 3, Funny

    Never thought i'd get ripped off by a gas pump.

  31. Pump security? by PPH · · Score: 1

    We had a crew of people running around here (the Seattle area) not long ago. They were getting inside the pump and circumventing the controls to enable the pump. And then they'd steal a few hundred gallons at a time with a specially equipped pickup truck.

    You'd think they would have some sort of tamper alarm and pump shutdown to keep unauthorizedd people from screwing around inside the pumps.

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
  32. Minimum wage increase - the panacea. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yes. *All* conflict arises from economic disparity. Why, if only we could fight poverty would could stop fighting each other. I've never even *heard* of a rich man stealing (much less murdering). /sarcasm.

    Dynamite = the end of war. Failed. The airplane = the end of war. Failed. Television = the end of war. Failed. Atomic bomb = the end of war. Failed. Let's extrapolate. If you were to do something so humanitarian as to end hunger, you would also end hungry armies. Who could then wage more efficient war. Humans bring about their own problems, not their circumstances.

    Of course, the answer is Jesus, but many people don't want to hear that.

    1. Re:Minimum wage increase - the panacea. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Of course, the answer is Jesus, but many people don't want to hear that.

      Religion is only one of the causes of war. Then again, belligerence is only one of the problems caused by it. The effects it had and continues to have on human rights, the rule of law, democracy, science and education in a lot of places are terrible. Christianity is the one we are most confronted by in the West, but any set of fair tales large groups of grown-up people believe in freak me out.

  33. its uncovering media bias against hackers by decora · · Score: 0

    these people are not criminals. they are simply pointing out to people how easy it is for you to get ripped off by credit card scanners. by .. you know. ripping you off with a credit card scanner.

  34. How to solve this for good by jonwil · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Equip all cards with a simple chip. This chip contains an encryption algorithim (something strong enough to not be easily cracked by running brute force on data packets). It would also contain a secret key unique to your account. And it should not give the key itself out.

    Then the reader sends a formatted packet containing the PIN (if entered), the options (credit vs debit etc) and the amount of the purchase. The card encrypts this data and hands the reader a data packet saying "this is a chip-and-pin transaction" and containing the encrypted data. The reader sends this through the bank networks to the issuing bank.

    The issuing bank has another copy of the secret key which it uses to decrypt the data packet and validate that the transaction is possible (i.e. enough money there etc) and returns a "yes, proceed" result to the card reader. The bank would ONLY record the transaction as a chip-and-pin if it was sent through this process (thus preventing dodgy or compromised swipe-only terminals reading the mag stripe and running up the transaction like a mag stripe transaction but telling the bank its chip-and-pin)

    1. Re:How to solve this for good by syousef · · Score: 2, Informative

      If you use a PGP key, you don't need a 2nd copy of the secret key at the bank, just the matching public key.

      --
      These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
    2. Re:How to solve this for good by dch24 · · Score: 1

      The cryptographic design is fine.

      But proximity designs couldn't transmit enough power a few years ago. The algorithms, even implemented as an ASIC, were still too power hungry.

      However, that may have changed now that fab technology is fully outsourced. No one has tried "real crypto" on a prox card recently.

    3. Re:How to solve this for good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nice try, and your suggestion does seem to be significantly better than what we have now.

      You have the potential for replay attacks here because a valid packet for a specific amount would always look the same. We can fix that by throwing some random data in there too which the bank sends out and then checks later.

      You also haven't talked about the fact that the reader could throw loads of these packets at the chip, for a variety of amounts and simply store the resulting packets for later use or analysis.

    4. Re:How to solve this for good by jimicus · · Score: 2, Informative

      Wow, what an amazing and original idea. You should sell it to Mastercard - you'd make a fortune.

      Oh, wait...

    5. Re:How to solve this for good by jonwil · · Score: 1

      One solution to these problems is to require either an RSA SecurID type rolling number which is added to the packet by the smart card chip. That way, each packet is only valid long enough to send it to the bank and get a response and replay attacks (or stored packets) are as good as useless.

    6. Re:How to solve this for good by jonwil · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The problem with chip-and-pin is that the implementation is broken because it relies on the security of the card reader. My method does not rely on the security of the card reader and is not vulnerable to hacked card readers (wasnt there a recent story on here about chip-and-pin being broken?)

      Designed right, its possible to even protect the account number so that only the smart card and the bank can see it (and since you never present enough of the mag strip to the mag strip reader, it cant read data from there)

    7. Re:How to solve this for good by jimicus · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Would redeveloping chip & pin to solve the known issues and rolling out new terminals cost significantly more than the anticipated losses through fraudulent chip & pin transactions? Because as far as the bank is concerned, if the losses they have to eat are £100,000 per annum but the extra cost is in the millions, it'll be a long time before they can justify the investment.

    8. Re:How to solve this for good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      The Chip and PIN implementation is broken largely because it is very complicated. Between your idea being accepted as a good idea and being implemented by the world's card issuers, it too would become very complicated, and thus likely broken.

      The mistake made for Chip and PIN (a conscious decision which was erroneous) was not to allow third parties to audit the complex system before it went public. This makes no sense, because all it did was increase their costs (they will now have to replace parts of the system to fix known holes, instead of re-designing it while it was still on the drawing board)

      But your system isn't actually any better than Chip and PIN, except that since it's described so briefly you can claim it isn't "broken" because you haven't offered anything to break.

      In terms of design class vulnerabilities, it has all the same problems as Chip and PIN. Most notably for offline transactions it's vulnerable to the "yes card" attack, and for online transactions it is in fact vulnerable to "bad proxy" hacked card readers -- the bad guys hack the reader so that it is authorising a payment they're doing in a jewellers nearby. You "pay for gas" enter the right PIN, things seem OK, but actually you bought thousands of dollars of easily fenced jewellery.

      This stuff is hard, which is why Chip & PIN should have taken 2-3 extra years with independent experts from the crypto community finding problems and figuring out solutions. But it can be rescued, so long as governments or courts ensure banks suck down the cost of fraud due to failures of Chip & PIN there will be an incentive to fix things.

    9. Re:How to solve this for good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/7215920/Chip-and-pin-card-readers-fundamentally-flawed.html

      This flaw with Chip & PIN only exists because cards will fall back to Signature verification, if PIN verification is not supported. Some even fall back to no-verification.

      If Chip & PIN cards only allowed PIN verification, this flaw would be useless.

      The US is one of the few major economies not using Chip & PIN. Basically the industry is having to wait for the US to adopt Chip & PIN before verification can be tightened.

    10. Re:How to solve this for good by Xibby · · Score: 2, Informative

      Problem with a new solution is dealing with all the legacy hardware out there for processing transactions. Retailers have to buy new readers that would support both old and new cards, or buy new readers and keep the old ones in service. Retailers profits are hurt.

      Card Issuers could force the change over by only processing transactions with the new cards, but if retailers push back and not install new readers the Card Issuers profits take a hit.

      Consumers would have to update as well. Some people just won't do it. Example: Old ladies who have an old card without a mag stripe and no expiration date in their deceased 25 years ago husbands name. Card issuers and retailers can either loose out on the transaction or make the sale.

      A bit of a stalemate all around really until the cost of dealing with the fraud exceeds the cost of updating the hardware.

      --
      I'm going to go back in my box and will think within the limits of my box: MS Sucks Linux Good I read too much Slashdot.
  35. That's why I usually pump and scoot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    no point getting victimized ;)

    This got inside job written all over it.
    As others have indicated, most gas stations have more cameras than Fort Knox (after all, it's black gold).

  36. Because carrying around big wad of cash is safe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    At the end of the day, I would rather have my credit card swiped and have the bank cover any fraud charges than carry around a wad of cash. The single most dangerous activity you will do regularly is withdraw cash from an ATM that is slightly hidden or in a dark area. I swipe my card safe in the knowledge that my bank will cover any fraud.

    Yes, I've had my debit card used fraudulently for about $700 and the bank reversed the charges immediately. I was out the money for about 30 minutes beyond the time I first discovered.

    I also use the service from my bank that texts me when I use my card. I know two people who were able to stop a fraud transaction within minutes of it actually happening by seeing the alerts.

    1. Re:Because carrying around big wad of cash is safe by moeinvt · · Score: 1

      "I would rather have my credit card swiped and have the bank cover any fraud charges than carry around a wad of cash. The single most dangerous activity you will do regularly is withdraw cash from an ATM that is slightly hidden or in a dark area."

      Is it actually carrying the cash that you think is risky, or is it using the ATM? Are ATM fees typically cheaper than talking to a live teller? I can visit a branch of my bank and withdraw funds with no charge, but there are fees associated with using an ATM. Using an ATM in some obscure area might be risky, but a branch of the bank is probably safe. I don't understand why people feel compelled to use ATMs, and conduct small retail transactions(food, fuel, etc.) with plastic. Is it that scary to have $300 on you? I can only sigh and laugh when I see the people lined up waiting to use the ATM at lunch time, and sigh in frustration when the person ahead of me in the grocery store pulls out a card for $20 worth of stuff.

      Carry cash and a firearm or taser or something.

  37. You think like a racist ReThuglican Jew by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You think like a racist ReThuglican Jew
    Of course the Hispanic deserves your sympathy.

  38. Of course... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No one want to pay to update these fine examples of 1950's technology. That would be too difficult.

  39. Samuel Jackson's Opinion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    Cue in Samuel Jackson. After arriving in an El Camino at the local gas station in American Fork, UT, he gets out and takes a look at the prices.

    Samuel: Enough is enough. I have had it with these motherf*king prices in this motherf*king place. Strap yourself in, I'm about to fill the f*king truck.

    Samuel tosses the hose over into the back of the El Camino. Swipes his card and begins filling. Just when the back of the truck has been filled to capacity thanks to a thick, liquid-proof lining, Chuck Norris comes out of the store with an Uzi.

    Chuck: You gonna pay for all that gas.

    Samuel: I just did!

    Chuck: No you didn't.

    Samuel checks the pump and sees all sorts of jumbled characters. Biting his lip and cocking his head back with a nearly spent cigarette butt still in his mouth...

    Samuel: Pleeeeeez! Goddammit! I hate this hacker crap.

  40. This is not new been happening a while not by Zebai · · Score: 1

    This problem has existed for many years now. It is almost impossible to identify a machine that has one of these as most of these machines are inside the actual pump on the interior of the swiper, they are able to do this because the actual locking mechanism that keeps the machine secure almost always a generic lock who's key will fit not only every lock at that gas station, but probably a good 1/4 of all the gas pump locks in a city. I remember seeing a video with a reporter some years ago and they showed how such things are installed and the guy had the thing unlocked, installed, and drove away in not even 2 minutes.

    The technology is a little more resistant than it used to be, requiring the input of a zip code or a pin makes getting it harder but not impossible , just make sure your covering your keystrokes when you put that info in as its possible your being watched by binoculars or a camera with a telephoto so they can pickup your pin info.

  41. Nothing new by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The east europeans have been doing this in western Europe for many years by now.
    That is why 95%+ of all cards in Denmark has a chip that must be used, and Sweden will have completed the card replacement cycle this year.

    US is technological way behind the rest of the civilized world.

  42. Finally remove the MagSwipe and move to EMV by DeBaas · · Score: 1

    Banks should make some haste an move to EMV. SmartCards cannot be skimmed. Smartcard can be cracked, but usually that's for cheap smartcards with some old and proprietary encryption method. EMV is much safer. There are currently some ways to abuse EMV , but it currently requires a stolen card and a man in the middle attack that puts the criminal at much greater risk than skimming

    --
    ---
  43. Been going on in the UK for ages by alecwood · · Score: 1

    Here in the UK, especially since the advent of 'Chip & Pin' security, card skimmers and other intercept methods have become increasingly common, and fuel pumps are among the most common targets of all. The reason why is ease of access. You're stood at the pump for quite a long time (in the UK you have to keep the handle squeezed to pump fuel, no latch) with noone paying any real attention to you. Since you're stood for so long you have ample opportunity to install your device, and since there are no attendants, just a couple of cashiers, the chances of detection are minimal. Since automatic number plate recognition technology was added to aid in apprehending fuel thieves, the cashiers have no reason to look at the CCTV screens either, so they don't.

    I was had by just such a device a couple of years ago, but here the banks are so confident in chip and pin as a security method they weren't exactly sympathetic - and bank fraud is now a matter for the banks, not the police. It took a long struggle to get my money back, and in the end the best I could manage was about 50% of it.

    --
    Real happiness lies in the completion of work using your own brains and skills.
  44. Economics FAIL by wintercolby · · Score: 1

    I'm sorry, but in psuedo code:

    Price != Cost + desired margin(profit)
    Price == demand/supply

    As evidence:
    The average price in New Jersey is 2.47 per gallon, and the average fuel price in Pennsylvania is 2.73 per gallon. New Jersey has a law that all pumps MUST be full service, so they have to hire at least one extra attendant, this does nothing to the price in comparison to prices in neighboring states. I am not suggesting that the minimum raise be increased, Economics 101 states that the net affect of minimum wage IS teenagers and college students with less work experience while the economy catches up to absorb the difference. I am suggesting that gas stations start paying their employees a living wage and provide reasonable benefits, and then brag like hell.

    --
    Most ignorance is vincible ignorance. We don't know because we don't want to know. --Aldous Huxley
  45. cell phones by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    since most people have cell phones why not require banks to txt your phone with a verification query for every transaction with the options of verify, refuse, refuse and i think my info was stolen, refuse and have a card rep call me when available.

  46. Just requires a little more sophistication. by Ihlosi · · Score: 1
    Then the reader sends a formatted packet containing the PIN (if entered), the options (credit vs debit etc) and the amount of the purchase.

    If the crooks have compromised the reader, they can have your card encrypt a couple of packets they plan to use before going through with the actual legitimate transaction.

  47. I never had a car by h00manist · · Score: 1

    I don't like cars. I mostly walk. But yes, I have always lived in a big city. And occasionally I use taxis, buses, trains and airplanes. Even motorcycles and bicycles. But never cars. Do some math and you might find the same. I do use cars when the system gives me no other alternative, it happens often, no need to be fanatic...

    --
    Build your own energy sources from scratch. http://otherpower.com/
  48. After all these years... by osgeek · · Score: 1

    ... there's still no legal mandate to provide digital signatures for credit card transactions! Why?

    Signing smart cards have been around for well over a decade. Smart phones could easily handle the duty and give you a processing/verification module that is really tough for a criminal to tamper with.

    It goes like this:

    1. You step up to the register/pump and identify your payment device. An iPhone can display a bar code with a public key, so that would work well. Heck, the iPhone camera can even read a bar code off the counter to get the register's public key, but that might be overkill.
    2. The register uses the bar code identity to encrypt the payment details.
    3. The iPhone owner approves the transaction, most likely entering a PIN.
    4. The iPhone sends a strong digital signature of the approved transaction to the register.
    5. The store/gas station must submit all digital signatures to the bank to get any payment.

    DONE!

    Tractor trailer sized holes that lead to credit card fraud could be sealed.

    What is the friggin' problem here?

    Oh yeah, credit card companies write off the fraud so it doesn't hurt them too much. Consumers aren't held responsible for using credit card companies that refuse to upgrade their infrastructure.

  49. Not your problem by Fastfwd · · Score: 1

    The credit card offers the service that got compromised. It's up to them to fix it and to pay the bill; they used to go with it because those things were not frequent. Now they started putting chips on the cards because the cost of fraud got too high.

  50. More Economics FAIL by quadelirus · · Score: 1

    Sorry but, Price != demand/supply, it is related to demand/supply but it would more accurately be characterized by something like

    Price = operating_cost + profit_I_can_get_away_with

    where profit_I_can_get_away_with is related to demand/supply

    You always have to cover your operating_cost, however. Gas stations have thin margins so there does come a point where raising wages requires a raise in cost.

    I mean, just do a quick mental experiment. Let's say you raise someone's wage to more than the net profit of the entire shop. Obviously you would have to raise prices.

    Also, you are only citing gas price difference between New Jersey and Pennsylvania as "evidence" for your argument. First: gas stations don't make that much money on gas. They make money on the stuff inside of the gas station. The gas is merely a way to attract customers to come and pay for candy and soda, etc. To make the argument you are making you need to compare average profit margins, so check out the average markup across all items at the gas stations in each state and report back to us.

    Second: you haven't shown whether Pennsylvania gas stations pay their attendants more or less. If they pay more, then it would actually support the people arguing against you, because higher prices and higher wages would be related.

    Third: even if the wages were the same between the two states it may be more expensive, in terms of taxes, for a company to have an employee in Pennsylvania which would eat up its operating budget and require it to pay its employees less than it otherwise would.

    Bottom line: your comparison of gas prices is a red herring and does not get even close to proving your point. A lot more in depth analysis of operating budgets and profit margins is needed to make the argument that gas stations can raise wages without raising prices--something that I think is probably a pretty dubious claim.

  51. Good move by GameboyRMH · · Score: 2, Interesting

    You nearly got carded.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebanese_loop

    How can you protect yourself? It's not easy anymore. You now see that a compromised machine doesn't necessarily have semi-obvious modifications you can see from outside. I think people will have to start using temporary credit cards with low limits more often.

    I don't know if it was intentional but this seems to have been predicted in Batman of the Future - the characters carry around a large number of "creds" and each one seems to have a limited value. They also used portable devices to trade them - totally possible these days with short-range RFID and readers which could be built into smartphones.

    They don't seem to have any authentication (and are sometimes traded like cash). A system like this could work - instead of mints printing money, they'd recycle "creds" which you can then get from the bank and assign to your account. I mean we're already using fiat currencies anyways.

    Or maybe I'm getting ahead of myself - if the credit card system were to be overhauled, it would be easier to give the credit card some computational power rather than being basically a glorified barcode sticker (which you can now copy at range, thanks to RFID-enabled credit cards). Put some buttons and a screen (or a touchscreen) right on the credit card and have the card itself initiate an SSL (or similar) connection to the server, using the ATM only to act as a network access point (using some kind of very short range wireless or optical networking) and propose a transaction to the card (send $18.99 to SHIRTCO (Seller verified!) for T-SHIRT, Accept/Deny?). A MITM wouldn't be possible with no way to intercept keypresses or any legible network traffic. With the card running from a ROM, and with no way to access any onboard storage, data couldn't be stolen from there either. Carding someone in a system like this would have to start by physically stealing the card, and with the possibility of deactivating its account on the server side you'd also have to kidnap the owner.

    --
    "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
  52. There is a much simpler solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Take a regular card, swipe it, enter a PIN that is not correct. The skimming systems are usually not a "man in the middle" attack: they are card readers that will accept any PIN just to get your information.

    If the wrong PIN is not authenticated, the card reader is connected to your bank. If the wrong PIN passes, buy everything you can carry out.

  53. Two manufacturers??? by rsborg · · Score: 1

    The way they were able to make the switch is all pumps nationwide are made by only two manufacturers, and those manufacturers each have A key design to open their pumps. Two keys can open every modern gas pump in the country.

    This is another symptom of what's wrong in this country. Two manufacturers of gas pumps? WTF happened to competition? Imagine how easy it would be for a foreign power or terrorist organization to subvert our gas pumps and literally bring this country to it's knees in a week.

    Our car-only transit culture and lack of standardized security models (oh no, government interference!!! socialism!!!) makes our country weak and an easy target.

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    Make sure everyone's vote counts: Verified Voting
  54. insiders? by GregNorc · · Score: 1

    Insiders being paid off to look the other way?

    Maybe.

    Or maybe it's a gas station that isn't manned 24/7?

    I've seen gas stations in the suburbs where they only have a clerk from say, 8am-8pm. During late hours when they don't get much business, you can use a credit card at the pump, but there's no clerk.

  55. czarspeed by czarspeed · · Score: 1

    Go find a dumpster pull out an old ironing board and 4 soup cans and buld your self a rocket powered skate board. Problem solved.

    --
    Adult Toys For Less