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Hacker Will Try To Restore Linux Support On PS3
Many readers have been sending in news of the impending PS3 firmware update that will remove the ability to install other operating systems on the console. (We discussed it here on Sunday.) Over the past few days, legions of PS3 owners have been voicing their anger at Sony's decision, upset that they'll be forced to either lose their custom install or forgo use of the PlayStation Network and be unable to play certain games and movies. Now, hacker George Hotz, known for his iPhone jailbreaks and his PS3 hack earlier this year, has vowed to fight back and restore Linux support on the PS3. He said, "The PlayStation 3 is the only product I know that loses features throughout its lifecycle. Software PS2 emulation, SACD playback, and OtherOS support are all just software switches you can flip. It's unbelievable you would go and flip one, not just on new boxes you are shipping, but on tens of millions already in the field."
Well, no duh!
"His name was James Damore."
And Sony will respond by banning these people from PSN for hacking the PS3. Or does this person really think that Sony won't be checking such a thing when you connect to PSN?
In the interest of openness, I've decided to release the exploit. Hopefully, this will ignite the PS3 scene [...]
Looks like the fires need a little more than that to get lit, but there's a lot of pissed off users now with torches just aching to start a blaze.
Sony had to see this coming, now we just have to see if they'll try to litigate their way out of it or own up.
"Most people, I think, don't even know what a rootkit is, so why should they care about it?"
express their total disinterest and get back to playing God of War whatever.
Thanks for coming.
While I love the products of both companies, they are becoming ridiculous control freaks. I'm not sure that I'll be buying any more products from either Apple or Sony.
>> The PlayStation 3 is the only product I know that loses features throughout its lifecycle.
Presuming youre talking about artificial limitations, Microsoft have been doing it for years.
For example, I can watch Blu-ray under XP. No such luck with Vista or Windows 7 thanks to the extra DRM and my non-hdcp monitor.
I'm hoping i can point this out early enough, but the slated released date for this patch is april 1st.
Talk about one of the most successful trolls on the internet today, sony generated a TON of nerd rage on this stunt, it's rather hilarious.
I'll also say that many news stories about this pointed out the obvious fact that it conflicts with a recent statement that sony supports this feature and will continue to preserve it, it seems a fairly obvious april fools joke.
Just saying.
You never realize how much manually made unmanaged "linked" lists suck, till you have src.link.link.link.link...
The first Gen PS3s had PS2 hardware in them so that wasn't just a software switch. Though la
The PS2 backwards compatibility always used a hardware GS (the GPU). They emulated the EE and the VU1s, but not the GS. I'm not sure the cost reduction was really worthwhile, but it's not something they can just flip back on, on machines that don't have it.
Graham
You're expecting good treatment from the company that put rootkits on its CDs?
Since when did SCE put rootkits on CDs? Oh, you're talking about Sony Music which is a completely separate and distinct subsidiary which has absolutely zero ties to SCE.
I don't believe in walled gardens. Right now the most open environment is Linux or one of the BSD's, Windows comes in next. Apple I wouldn't be surprised if they brought the App Store to OS X and then finished closing everyone else out behind the approving gate. I'm not going to beg permission to run an app, if that means I have to pay with compatibility creep then so be it: the open systems refresh every once in a while as a response to that.
Shh.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
dont buy it, if you dont like it. You can also sell it as used. Thats the biggest Hack. (If you hack for the purely academic reason of demonstrating that it can be hacked - thats fine and beatiful. But dont pay money to a company to pay people to fight you). Yes, sometime you dont get the shiniest most beatiful HW. When the iphone came out there was no direct competitor (if you where interested in touch). Now there are many. When the PS3 came out, it was probably better and faster than the current PCs. no probably not (i dont know, not seriously interested).
It's all Sony. If it's a "subsidiary", then there's no such thing as a "separate and distinct"; they're all under the same CEO.
One of the main reasons Sony was so reluctant to support MP3s in its portable electronics was because its music division saw it as supporting piracy.
First of all, duh. Of course hackers were going to try and circumvent the restriction. And, like all other types of silly restrictions, it's inevitable that they will succeed.
What I'm more interested in is the lawsuit that should be on its way over this. It was an advertised feature of the PS3, and a not-insignificant number of people bought a PS3 because they could run Linux on it. Hell, a lot of people only bought one to run Linux on it.
If my car used to have a CD changer, and it gets disabled when I bring it in for service, I'd sue. Contracts, EULA be damned - I chose a product because it had a feature, and it got removed after the fact. That's not legal.
I have developed a truly marvelous proof of this comment, which this signature is too narrow to contain.
I can't play Metal Gear Solid 4, Super SF 4, or Valkyria Chronicles on a PC built with ITX parts
Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
I'm not really up to speed on this ... would you care to elaborate on what geohot's "massive fuckup" was? Is it that he cracked the ps3 via the Other OS feature, and that prompted them to patch it away?
It's all Sony. If it's a "subsidiary", then there's no such thing as a "separate and distinct"; they're all under the same CEO.
No, actually SCE has it's own CEO, Kazuo Hirai. Sony Music has it's own chairman and there is another chairman and CEO of Sony Corporation. You also seem to be profoundly ignorant about how conglomerates are run. They are basically made up of mostly autonomous units.
As much as geohot can try to make up for his massive fuckup,
Oh please. For years the question was "so when is the PS3 going to be hacked?" You people cheered him on when he came out with his hack. Now you guys are mad at *him* because *Sony* is taking one of its toys away. Shouldn't you be directing your anger at Sony?
You know what? I think geohot should not even bother trying to fix it. No good deed goes unpunished. No, I'm not related to him. I don't even own a gaming console. But this name calling and blame-gaming is annoying.
--
BMO
Oh no! How horrible!
You want to buy into a closed system so you can play certain games? Go ahead. But don't complain when the people controlling that closed system do things you don't like. If you don't like it, you shouldn't have bought it.
This is like buying an iPhone and then complaining that Apple doesn't allow some apps in their App Store. WTF did you expect?
I have one of the PS3s with the PS2 software emulation and it still works even with the current patch installed.
Some of what I say is fact, some is conjecture, the rest I'm just blowing out my ass...you guess.
I'd be seriously pissed off if I owned a PS3 and actually used Linux. Sony thinks "Oh, it'll blow over and people will forget." The truth is a lot of people will, I won't. I've already been burned with Sony's proprietary stance with my MP3 player when I moved to Linux and tried to use it there, this - not removing Linux, rather not acting in the interests of their customer - has solidified that negative attitude. I simply won't buy Sony products in the future, which means I'll get to see if someone else burns me ;) As an aside, buying a Xbox 360 was the best thing I ever did: all the DRM and related crap bundled into a separate box from my computer for entertainment which freed up my desktop to run Linux as it's only operating system. Best of both worlds.
Shh.
The PS2 emulation was not a bit flipped in software.
The first PS3 models had both of the PS2's main chips (I think in the single-combined-package form they'd switched to) physically present.
Later PS3 models had only one of them, using Cell to emulate the other.
Still later PS3 models (the first US "40 gig") have neither.
There was never any PS2 emulation for that last hardware revision, and last I heard, the first two still have PS2 emulation, although the second one has sorta crappy PS2 emulation. (Yes, you can get a splash screen on nearly everything, but dont' assume that all your games can be played through without glitches.)
That said, the rest of this is crap. I guess I now have a $600 paperweight. On the other hand, it paid for itself in articles I wrote about Cell development.
My blog: http://www.seebs.net/log/ --- My iPhone/iPad app: http://www.seebs.net/seebsfrac/
[...] despite this Sony got nothing but flack from technical users from the PS3 since launch.
They do not speak for all of us. I had great respect for Sony's relative generosity with a gaming console.
"Most people, I think, don't even know what a rootkit is, so why should they care about it?"
I have yet to try but I do not see why not just run Linux on a live boot disk when you need it.
It's unbelievable you would go and flip one, not just on new boxes you are shipping, but on tens of millions already in the field.
they aren't flipping the switch on the boxes in the field... they are flipping the switch internally on the support... disabling the software in the field is an unfortunate side effect.
"Sony" Computer Entertainment and "Sony" Music ...it's still the Sony brand running the show
If you have a company that make cars and guns,
but to stop people from copying their guns, they made them shot backwards.. Thus killing the user
Would you still trust their cars do drive forwards when told?
I'm sure they would be controlled completely separate and distinct subsidiary of the same company...
> They are basically made up of mostly autonomous units.
Apparently not autonomous enough to call themselves something other than Sony.
The PS3 could play SACDs? That's the first I've even heard of it having this feature. The first time I've heard of any hardware that can play them, for that matter...
That's why I bought a Sorny PlayStayshin III instead. I can do whatever I want with it*, and there are never any updates that disable features. In fact, there are never any updates. It runs MAME great though. Well, extremely slowly, but that just makes the games more playable IMO.
* Except connect to PSN, watch BluRay discs, or play PS3 games.
https://www.eff.org/https-everywhere
Seriously... why is this even an issue? Why do you assholes that have a problem with this continue to buy Sony products?
Sony has shown, time and again, that they care not one whit about their customers. They will screw them in any possible way they can to make more money out of them. They have no regard for their customers, their customers privacy, their customers equipment, etc... You dumb bastards that bought a PS3 deserve everything you get, because you KNEW ahead of time that Sony was one of the worst, most evil companies out there. There were already countless and recent examples of their total disregard for anything consumer rights related and yet you went ahead and bought yet ANOTHER Sony product.
Yes, you get exactly what you deserve and there should be no sympathy for you idiots. If you keep putting your hand into a crocodiles mouth and then wonder why your hand got bitten off, even after the guy next to you lost his whole arm and hundreds of thousands of people are screaming at you not to do it, then you are just stupid and Darwin needs to pay you a visit. In this case, you are just stupid for supporting Sony and Electronic Darwin needs to pay you a visit.
Sure, because open systems are just wonderful for gaming. They never have driver or dependency problems or ... oh yeah, they do.
Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
He doesn't want to restore linux. It's all about enabling "homebrew". Which means "backing up my games". Which means "pirating games".
PS3 linux is shit. Most people haven't tried it, including most people here. But god help you if Sony stops supporting the least useful portion of the PS3, which also happened to be a security hole.
Why wasn't there this much nerd rage when they announced there was no "other OS" on the slim?
Why? Because if you didn't want to buy the PS3 without the OtherOS, you could simply choose not to buy it. In this case, people who already have it, will have it deleted and disabled
Geohot doesn't need to do a fucking thing. Sony needs to OWN UP TO THEIR ORIGINAL ADVERTISING and give EVERY PS3 owner "OtherOS" and BC.
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
I never claimed they didn't have problems. But if you buy into a closed system, you have to realize they come with their own problems, namely that you're at the mercy of the vendor.
The iPhone is nice and works really well, but don't expect to be able to load up any software you want on it; you're at Apple's mercy. Don't expect to modify the phone software, so you could for instance block certain callers (why don't any phones allow that anyway?). If you're OK with these limitations, then the iPhone might be OK for you. If these limitations are anathema to you, then don't buy it. Don't buy one and then complain after the fact; any Slashdot reader should be well-aware of the situation.
Similarly, don't buy a Sony PS3 and expect to run whatever software you want on it. You can only do what Sony allows you to do with it. Complaining about this is stupid: what do you expect from a company like Sony? If you don't like it, don't buy it.
"But this name calling and blame-gaming is annoying."
Exactly, if anything, blame the assholes who won't stand up to Sony for constantly pulling this bullshit.
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
"They are basically made up of mostly autonomous units."
All controlled by the same fucking group of stockholders.
Sony is SONY, no matter how you try to twist it with that faulty logic.
Try being part of a corporation sometime and maybe you'll understand the real chain of command.
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
The problem is that these companies are not up front about the way that they wield control over their systems. Apple does not come out and say, "The app store has all the apps we think are appropriate for your iPhone, and none of the apps that we do not like." There is an element of deceit involved here, and that is where the problem lies.
Palm trees and 8
"I can't play Metal Gear Solid 4, Super SF 4, or Valkyria Chronicles on a PC built with ITX parts"
Actually you can. Got an SDK PS3? Got the Linux-based SDK IBM offers as well that runs on a PC? Take a PS3 game, import it through the Linux SDK, rip it, write new executable, play.
Sony is clueless - the pirating of PS3 games has already been happening. Mainly by the early adopters that bought the SDK systems.
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
Do you actually know how SONY is run? No, apparently not.
Each unit is more or less an autonomous company unto itself. There's a corporate culture about setting goals and such throughout the conglomerate, but that's about it.
If you don't believe me, talk to someone that works for SONY.
They can't give people BC. PS2 backwards compatibility is hardware-based (first fully, then partially). Geohot doesn't know what the hell he's talking about; backwards compatibility went away when Sony removed the GS from newer PS3 models, and it's no software switch.
No Sony Android phones?
You mean, like the Sony Ericsson Xperia X10?
Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
No, seriously. Don't bother. Why reward Sony for doing this? Do you want other companies to treat you like a criminal as well?
Instead, use your hacking skills for building a Linux box which can play Sony games. Now that would get them (Sony) thinking.
The society for a thought-free internet welcomes you.
"despite this Sony got nothing but flack from technical users from the PS3 since launch."
Perhaps because there were not honest about what the "OtherOS" option actually was? The initial hope that the technical users had was that we could get full access to the system, and then we all found out the terrible truth: no, we have to go through a hyperviser, and Sony gets to decide which features of the PS3 we really deserve to use. They got flack for not delivering what we really wanted, and giving us a half assed proprietary system instead. Had they just locked it down entirely, we would never have cared at all -- it would just be another proprietary gaming console, and we would have gone on using other systems. "Instead of encouraging shipping Linux support on a major console like the delicate flower it was, technical people from all over stomped on that flower, spit on it, and then set fire to the remains."
No, we tried to push our systems to the limit, just like we do with every other computer. Why should we abide by what Sony says we are allowed to do with our PS3s? I bought my PS3, I want to push it to the limit, and I do not care for Sony and their anti-customer tactics (and until they change their attitude, they will not see a dime of my money).
"Thanks assholes, you killed a feature I liked"
No, Sony killed that feature, and the blame belongs with Sony. Lesson learned, once and for all: do not trust proprietary computing, it is a trap and should be avoided, always. Do not blame the users, blame the company and its contempt for the users.
Palm trees and 8
That's true, but I don't think it excuses Slashdotters from knowing about their behavior, as it's regularly posted here.
I wouldn't expect Suzie Homemaker to know about the way Apple runs its App Store, or about Sony's or Microsoft's shenanigans, but I do expect any Slashdotter with a username to know, simply because of how well-informed we are here. Any time one of these companies does something slightly objectionable, it gets posted here. So ignorance really isn't an excuse if you're a regular on this site, IMO.
Ohhai, I talk to several artists contracted under Sony all the time. I'm actually pretty deeply involved in the music, computer, semiconductor, and film industries.
I know how it works, I've seen the entire structure from bottom up. It's exactly the same as the corporation I'm a part of.
And no matter what, YOU STILL HAVE FIDUCIARY DUTIES.
Again, I repeat and stress, TRY BEING PART OF A CORPORATION.
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
I should also add that I'd expect anyone tech-savvy enough to want to run Linux on their PS3 to meet the same standard for knowledgeability that I'd expect of any regular Slashdotter.
XBox 360 lost the subscription feature for demos with the NXE. It also will lose online play for Xbox games when Live for original Xbox in two weeks.
I can't think of any older consoles that lost features with software updates, although many lost features in new versions, most notably progressive component out removed from Gamecube.
http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95
I would not expect that anymore, nor would I have expected it when the PS3 first came out. The days of Linux only being used by highly experienced and informed people are long gone; there are droves of novices using Linux, and I would not expect most of them to be completely informed about the practices of Sony and Apple.
Palm trees and 8
For anyone who's interested I wrote a letter to Sony Customer Support about this. Here is the letter I received as a response. Names were removed
Discussion Thread
Response (xxxxxxxxxxxx) 03/30/2010 04:38 PM
Hello xxxxxxx,
Thank you for writing us with your concerns for the upcoming firmware release and it's features.
The Playstation®User agreement states that we may update the system which may change the operating system.
11. MAINTENANCE AND UPGRADES
From time to time, it may become necessary for SCEA to provide certain content to you to ensure that PlayStation(R)Network and content offered through Playstation®Network, your PlayStation®3 computer entertainment system, the PSP® (PlayStation®Portable) system or other SCEA-authorized hardware is functioning properly in accordance with SCEA guidelines. Some content may be provided automatically without notice when you sign into Playstation®Network. Such content may include automatic updates or upgrades which may change your current operating system, cause a loss of data or content or cause a loss of functionalities or utilities. Such upgrades or updates may be provided for system software for your PlayStation®3 computer entertainment system, the PSP® (PlayStation®Portable) system, or other SCEA-authorized hardware. Access or use to any system software is subject to terms and conditions of a separate end user license agreement found at http://www.us.playstation.com/termsofuse. You authorize SCEA to provide such content and agree that SCEA shall not be liable for any damages arising from provision of such content or maintenance services. It is recommended that you regularly back up any data located on the hard disk that is of a type that can be backed up.
If you'd like to read the full user agreement, you may do so at the link below:
Article Title: Terms of Use and User Agreement
Article Link: http://playstation.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/1109
Regards,
xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
I've been part of a corporation. But there's a huge difference between doing your fiduciary duty and claiming Sony is a huge unified company. It's not. There's a lot of autonomy in the different branches. So much so, they're effectively different companies entirely, with their own financial statements, ways of doing business, etc. That's why I thought it was silly to boycott the PS3 when Sony Music rootkit-ed people's PCs. The PS3 people are a different company, with their own specially retarded ways of doing business (like disabling PS2 game support).
You know, I like to toy around with things all the time and often I have to clean up a big mess I made or spend many hours figuring out how something goes back together.
I at least have the decency to only break my own things.
"Most people, I think, don't even know what a rootkit is, so why should they care about it?"
First they came for my Linux...
I called Sony to voice my concerns today and informed them that I would not continue to support their PSN, even if this is a hoax.
As a member of the PS3Cluster team I would like to say that Sony's cutting off of 3rd party OSes from their platform is going to impact the Air Force, UMass Dartmouth and other organizations using PS3 hardware as massively parallel clusters for scientific computing. This goes far beyond the home-brew market.
We've been covered here before:
http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/12/17/2251232
gigantino.tv - Heavy but weighs nothing.
I believe the thing that makes the PS2 difficult to emulate is its unusual video memory... it's only 4MB in size, but has insane bandwidth.
-Graphics processing unit: "Graphics Synthesizer" clocked at 147 MHz
-Pixel pipelines: 16
-Video output resolution: variable from 256x224 to 1280x1024 pixels
-4 MB Embedded DRAM video memory bandwidth at 48 gigabytes per second (main system 32 MB can be dedicated into VRAM for off-screen materials)
-Texture buffer bandwidth: 9.6 GB/s
-Frame buffer bandwidth: 38.4 GB/s
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Playstation_2#Technical_specifications
This wasn't being emulated on the partially BC consoles because the GS chip was still present. I myself own a hardware BC 60GB. :)
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law
OS X is on it's way out. Apple intends to replace it with the Iphone OS on Macbooks and Imacs. These machines will run Apple' s A4 processor which is simply an ARM Cortex-A8 processor with a proprietary component on die. My arguments for this are as follows.
1. Homogeneity, Apple as a matter of marketing conscience does not maintain disparate systems. This interferes with the "just works" slogans as you have to determine which OS is supported before installing a product (I believe Android and Windows is bashed relentlessly for this).
2. Control, Apple hate hackintoshes, positively despise the fact that someone can get outside their control and that the cheapest OSX box is actually a Dell for 1/2 the price of a Mac Mini.
3. They can, to Apple the Iphone has proven that so long as a cool image is maintained it's customers will happily accept any level of abuse.
4. Numbers, Apple have more numbers on the Iphone OS then on OS X, OS X is still very much a niche market.
Apple have changed both OS and processor architecture in the past, nor has prospect of losing most of their core stooped them from shooting themselves in the foot before.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
So you were gonna buy an older PS3 model to upgrade from 360? Other OS hasn't been on the current production models since about September.
Advertised...past tense. They advertised PS2 compatibility in the past, but stopped when they began releasing models without it.
One thing the Hypervisot did was "virtualize" the wacky PS3 hardware so distros saw something closer to a "standard PC", which made it easier to get standard distros like Fedora, Ubuntu, Yellow Dog on it, rather than having to do some kind of wacky PS3 specific distro, like Linux for PlayStation 2 was.
LOL @ the dumb troll that doesn't realize /. IS a blog.
Ignorant trash needs to stick with the tea partiers and let real men with real valid opinions talk.
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
The entire thing is Sony Global. That means that entity, the shareholder part, CONTROLS EVERYTHING ELSE. They make final okays towards individual business practices. NO OTHER SUBDIVISION DOES ANYTHING WITHOUT SHAREHOLDER APPROVAL, PERIOD. It doesn't happen. Ever attended a shareholder meeting, or have to give a presentation to one? You stand there, discuss what you have done, what you WANT to do, and then you BEG in the most professional manner possible.
Now pardon me, I have to wait for the UK AND China to both be awake so I can make the reports to MY shareholders in each country.
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
Really?
I mean, last I checked, it was mostly cheaters at any level beyond the first few in Halo 2 -- mostly people exploiting things like the fact that one Xbox gets picked "at random" to be the server, but it wasn't particularly difficult to influence which one is chosen as server. I mean, without even hacking the box, you could do this as simply as resetting your router.
I'd guess that particular problem has been dealt with, but preventing cheating, even on a console, is somewhat like DRM -- you can't do it globally. The best you can do is allow dedicated servers with admins who pay attention -- something not really possible with most console games, or (apparently) most console-ish PC ports.
Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
So you were gonna buy an older PS3 model to upgrade from 360? Other OS hasn't been on the current production models since about September.
No, I wasn't even aware the feature was removed until this article. I had been considering switching to the PS line again, but as a result of the removal of the Other OS "feature," I won't. It would be awesome to play video games on a console, play DVDs, and then boot into a Linux distro and surf the web and such.
'Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun.' - Mao Tse-tung
Isn't the Other OS feature the primary vector for PS3 hacks??
While I deploy removing a feature, is anyone really surprised that Sony would take steps to impede piracy, even at the risk of alienating a small portion of users who actually use this feature legitimately.
Honestly, won't MOST users who care about running Linux on a PS3 have a multitude of devices available which run other OSes far better than the PS3??
I'm thinking the few groups who use the PS3 for parallel processing will either downgrade the firmware or select one of the many other hardware options out there equally suited/priced/sized.
The side effect of "Getting Linux back" will probably be the ability to run pirated games. Previously none of the Linux people cared about pirating games, now their knownledge gained from bringing back Linux might be used for just that.
I thought it would be cool too, and made the purchase in Sept. I had no idea what a Slim model was... bleh.
Could someone explain, or is it OK to censor an opposing viewpoint because you disagree with it.
If you think I am wrong, please make a well reasoned post explaining why.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
It had a multifunction digital connector that didn't even have component on it, the cable had converters in it and plugs on the cable. It never had jacks. Later units didn't have the multifunction digital connector.
What I think you're trying to say is that on units that had component out capability, it didn't disappear in a software update.
And yes, that's right. That's why I said:
'I can't think of any older consoles that lost features with software updates, although many lost features in new versions, most notably progressive component out removed from Gamecube.'
http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95
You're right, that makes absolutely no sense. Like slapping your most loyal customers in the face.
So, if I want a Cell-powered machine that can run my software, what choices do I have now? I cannot afford an IBM blade server (the price tag is around $10,000) and there is no way Sony will let me have a Debug or Test PS3 at home.
God, root, what is difference ?
actually there is. the native video driver blows. even just using gnome is super slow. an accelerated driver would rock.
that said, if you guys would buy stuff this wouldn't be such a problem. We have the amazon mp3 store and you haven't started buying mp3s like you said you would. Cheap, unencumbered, mp3s. Why would any company think an arms race isn't the better option?
I used to be on your side in the music wars until we got what we wanted and no one showed up with cash. Saying the majority of the stuff you pirate is "crap" is no justification.
There is no reason to hack the PS3 other than for piracy? So the fact that they lock out some of the SPUs so that only Sony sanctioned software can benefit from the whole power of the console wouldn't also be a reason to hack it. Also I know a number of hackers that have no intention of pirating software, they hack things for the challenge.
Also, this isn't hurting the pirates at all, only the customers that paid for this computer which has been turned into just a console. Sony advertised it as a computer, and even that you could install another OS. They are taking away my computer!
Microsoft, Apple, Google, Amazon what's the difference? All steal money from devs and control with walled gardens.
Hello ****,
We apologize for any inconvenience that you may be experiencing with the removal of the Other OS feature in the next update for the PlayStation(R)3 computer entertainment system. This feature enabled users to install an operating system, but due to security concerns, Sony Computer Entertainment will remove the functionality through the 3.21 system software update. If you do update to the 3.21 on your PlayStation(R)3 system you will not be able to use the hard disk partitions used by the other operating system. The data saved in these partitions cannot be restored after the system software has been updated. You will need to back up all data to storage media before updating the system software. You may need to format the Hard Disc Drive to get the partition back.
If you choose to not update your PS3 system you will not be able to do the following:
The ability to sign in to PlayStation®Network and use network features that require signing in to PlayStation Network, such as online features of PS3 games and chat.
Playback of PS3 software titles or Blu-ray Disc videos that require PS3 system software version 3.21 or later.
Playback of copyright-protected videos that are stored on a media server (when DTCP-IP is enabled under Settings).
Use of new features and improvements that are available on PS3 system software 3.21 or later.
Regards, ****
Microsoft, Apple, Google, Amazon what's the difference? All steal money from devs and control with walled gardens.
I used to work for Sony Electronics, or rather Sony Customer Information Service Center, a subsidiary of Sony Electronics, which in turn is (or was, they could have restructured) a subsidiary of Sony America, which was in turn a subsidiary of the Sony Corporation.
The divisions do indeed have their own executives but at the end of the day those lines were drawn for legal and tax reasons. The CISC most definitely did what it was told by Sony Electronics and Sony Electronics heeds the concerns of Sony Pictures and Sony Music on its gadgets when Sony America tells them to.
In fact, if there were no Sony Pictures or Sony Music, Sony Electronics would give DRM and copy protection mechanisms the finger since it would without question improve sales... At least that's what the CEO told me once at lunch.
By the way, the CEO's of these major branches are typically trusted individuals from the home corp in Japan.
They've never "integrated" anything into their OS just to take out competition. Never made proprietary extensions to standards and patented them so no-one else can inter-operate with them. Never changed interfaces to standard libraries causing old programs to not work so people have to buy the latest Microsoft product. Never removed features through software updates. Never came up with crappy new APIs just to force people to upgrade other programs when they update this one program over here. Never bought out competition and destroyed all the source code and copies of the program not sold to consumers. Never stole other company's source code and integrated it into their own. Of course the original Xbox used a standard USB interface. No control over add-on hardware for the Xbox360.
All the above is true isn't it? Oh wait, there's multiple examples where they did just the opposite of everything listed above.
As a programmer, I am sick and tired of the anti-consumer crap Microsoft is constantly pulling. Have you ever had an update to the OS that has broken some functionality to software that you use and Microsoft blames it on the developer? Chances are that company programmed it according to the Microsoft recommendation, just Microsoft went and changed that recommendation, sometimes not providing any officially supported way of doing it anymore.
One example is out web site creates Excel files. The official supported method of doing this was to use the Excel Interop object. Then Microsoft came out with a patch to Windows Server 2003 that didn't allow this to work anymore unless you turned off a whole bunch of security and that wasn't recommended. After that patch there was no official way to do what we were doing, but we had been doing it the official, supported, recommended Microsoft way before the patch.
Really all Microsoft cares about it power. It is willing to loose a lot of money for that power. Heck they told the DOJ where they could shove the settlement they came to. I know during the DOJ trial Microsoft was going out of their way to do things illegally just to tell the DOJ that they are above the law, and they proved they are. Consumers, they are just play things. I know the external beta test team for Vista was saying that the OS wasn't even close to ready to be shipped. Of course they were ignored.
Microsoft, Apple, Google, Amazon what's the difference? All steal money from devs and control with walled gardens.
Removing a feature from a product that you have already purchased seem wrong. Just as the ideas of companies still having some form of control how you use something you purchased, not leased. So, is a class action lawsuit an option?
Dear Sony, if an update to my machine will disable the "install other OS" feature in my PS/3 I will guarantee you that I will have it reported to every possible authority that I can think off and ensure it is followed up.
For a start, IT IS A DOCUMENTED FACILITY. It's on the manual, and I will make pictures of "before" and "after". This means it's something I paid for. Removing it without my permission is (a) theft and (b) a violation of trade description - you can't take something away which has influenced my decision to buy without expecting this to have repercussions. It would be equivalent to selling me a full stereo set and take away the speakers after I bought it so I'd have to spend extra money to buy those.
Secondly, YOU CANNOT FORCE MY COMPLIANCE. If you make acceptance of a trade description violation dependent on, well, a trade description violation (the device should be capable of Bluray playback even with the new code you plan to implement) you will lose double. The sort of coercion is AFAIK illegal in most countries.
So, here's your one and only warning: if I either find the facility gone, or find me unable to play a Bluray disc you WILL be facing the music, if you pardon the pun.
Oh, FYI, I don't use the feature, this is a matter of principle. It would be rather nice if Sony for once thought about the *customer* before doing things. I accept that is a wholly novel and far too innovative concept for Sony, but believe me, the pain is worth it. That's what made the Nintendo Wii such a hit. Learn from it.
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Sony is taking away functionality with which the product is sold. This is, as far as I know, a new low for them. Unless you can show some evidence otherwise, this is a perfectly rational complaint. Not bringing out new consoles with PS2 emulation is one thing, disabling functionality after the sale is entirely another. It's like Chevrolet snuck into everyone's driveway and put a live axle in the back of their new Camaros to motivate you to buy a Corvette again.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Look at the proposed date of the release: The next system software update for the PlayStation 3 (PS3) system will be released on April 1, 2010 . This time of year you have to be leery of every post/blog/news release
> The PlayStation 3 is the only product I know that loses features throughout its lifecycle.
Apparently this guy doesn't use Gnome much.
Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.
It's all Sony. If it's a "subsidiary", then there's no such thing as a "separate and distinct"; they're all under the same CEO.
No, actually SCE has it's own CEO, Kazuo Hirai. Sony Music has it's own chairman and there is another chairman and CEO of Sony Corporation. You also seem to be profoundly ignorant about how conglomerates are run. They are basically made up of mostly autonomous units.
My gods, it's all so clear now! They're all operating like an odd number of separate, distinct cores on a single CPU wrapped up by a big, shiny black box that says, "Sony," on it!
Sony has been trying to get into my living room for years, now they've figured out how to do it! Those CEOs and corporations are IN the Cell processor in the PS3 and now they're all in my living room! Those devious BASTARDS!
"Just a fox, a whisper."
Which would most seriously affect their profitability - not buying the machinery at all, or buying one of the machines and using it as a general purpose machine while not buying any games for it?
I recall (vaguely - I'm not into games at all ; the Wii I got for the wife and daughter for Xmas hasn't been connected to the TV for over 2 months now ; I was less than keen on getting the TV) that most of these special purpose games machines cost more to build than their street price, with the profit coming from online gaming fees, over-priced games, etc. So, it is possible (see above question) that the nastiest thing to do to Sony would be to buy a PS-whatever and use it as (for example) a media/file server / web terminal / whatever , then fill in the registration card explaining this in detail and send it off to Sony.
(Actually, I'm now wondering if I can do the same with the Wii? Have to power it up again one day when I've got time, as well as get an ethernet adaptor for it.)
I don't have any particular beef against Sony, but I've had to struggle with various of their machines over the years and can't say that I'm impressed.
Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
Yes. Past tense. AKA when I actually BOUGHT my PS3. We're not discussing new models, here. We're talking about the old, fat PS3s. The ones that they advertised would support BC and Other OS. There's no reason they shouldn't have to continue allowing us to use BC and Other OS on those fat PS3s, because that's what they advertised for features on them. Saying ads discussing the new slim PS3s apply to the old fat PS3s is stupid and illogical.
Bite my shiny metal ass!
I just talked to some people at Trading Standards, and Sony is digging a hole if they do this.
People bought the console with a listed and documented set of features. If Sony gives you a choice between upgrading and thus lose the "Alternative OS" feature or not upgrading and impairing access to future Bluray titles it always amounts to a "Reduction of the features as present and described at the time of purchase", for which you are entiteld to compensation. If you're in the UK, your next step is to notify Sony that you want to be compensated either way, and do this by recorded snail mail so you have an audit trail. Sony is likely to tell the first few to get stuffed, which is fine, because the Office of Trading Standards has now been briefed (guilty, grin), and they will welcome your complaint to take the matter further.
The second issue is that you are in principle forced to install malware under duress. If you don't, future Bluray titles will become unavailable according to Sony - thank you for the blackmail attempt. It means that any statement I agree to during the upgrade is invalidated as it takes place under duress, making the non-benign changes to the console illegal. In the UK this amounts to a violation of the Computer Misuse Act, and with enough people complaining, that too will become actionable.
So, Sony, thank you very much. You have finally ensured there will not be a single Sony made device ever pass my doorstep, because I cannot take the chance that I pay for a device (which is already priced above average) in which features may later disappear. I hack nor pirate, yet am treated as a criminal and punished with functionality which will disappear. I haven't got round to use that feature, but I am offended you even try. I hope people in the UK will follow up as I have (maybe someone can post on how to take the Computer Misuse Act further?).
Summary:
- Trade Description Act violation
- Computer Misuse Act violation
- Several grand worth of purchases killed off without any possibility of recovery
And that's just me. Anyone else with a creative streak?
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Posting to remove moderation mistake
No, it isn't. You have no clue how businesses are founded in that part of the world. If you look around the region you'll find about 10 names that are used in company names. You know most of them. Sony, Honda, Suzuki, Mitsubishi, Matshushita (pardon me if I spelled any of this wrong :/)
Honda lawn mowers have no relation to honda cars, nor do the motorcycles. Suzuki boat engines are in no way related to the car manufacture. Matshushita makes electric motors for various things and cdroms and heavy industry equipment (I think some of the others do as well).
What happens is one guy starts a company, then a family memeber (generally) at the company wants to start his own business, so the existing one helps them get started, but then they go off on their own. Your son doesn't inherit the business you started, but your business helps him start his own that share a common portion of the name and probably some friendly trade agreements and things that you'd expect from family, but otherwise they are two entirely different companies.
Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
They do call themselves something other than 'Sony'.
Please find the registered company named 'Sony'.
I doubt you will, there probably isn't one.
Theres a Sony Entertainment.
Theres a Sony Electronics.
Theres a lot of 'Sony XXXX' as is customary in that part of the world.
The common thing they share is that they were all started by the men of the same bloodline.
Their culture is different than yours, perhaps knowing a little more about it would prove useful in your future ramblings about it.
Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
Yes, because pirates spend 10K or so on an SDK PS3 to rip games ...
Are you fucking retarded?
Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
A blog is an online diary of a single attention whoring person.
Slashdot is a news aggregator and discussion system.
You could call it a 'forum' if you wanted, but its not a blog.
Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
You forget how slashdot started, and is still used as a personal blog by Taco.
We just comment.
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
First, Sony has to admit that they lost this round of the console wars - to inferior hardware that nevertheless met the consumers' wants.
Then they have to look at what they need to do to at least play serious catch-up for the next generation release in 5 years.