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iOS 4 Releases Today
tekgoblin writes "Today Apple releases the much anticipated iOS 4 for iPhones and iPod Touches. No word on when we will see this update on the iPad." Can't wait to see all the neat new stuff that won't run on my stale phone.
I personally can't wait to see what measures this new software takes to control its users and limit their access to other programs.
Palm trees and 8
I wonder if AT&T's network will melt :/
-- if you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine
Make sure you are ready today to get the update as soon as possible.
"What kind of music do pirates listen to?" -Paul Maud'dib
"Yeeeaaarrrrr n' Bee!!" -Stilgar, Leader of Sietch Tabr
Ship? I thought they sold them?
The plural of "touch" is "touches" you fucking dumbass'. People who put an apostrophe on every fucking word that end's with an 'S are starting to really piss' me off.
If you read a speed reading book, does it take you less time to read the second half?
I can't wait to see all the new stuff that I had on my Android phone a year and a half ago.
It's not for all the iPhone and iPod touch models. The first generation is being left behind.
So that means a lot of users stuck with devices running iOS3. Please don't forget that when making apps, unless you don't like profits of course.
FYI: the 1st generation iPod touch is the slowest, least powerful of all the iDevices. If it runs properly on that, it will run on all others.
...Apple rumor blogs do this.
Why not wait until the damn thing is actually released?
And if you have a jailbroken phone, make sure you are ready today to NOT get the update as soon as possible :D
Tsunami -- You can't bring a good wave down!
The summary is almost 90% of the article linked. Also the user who submitted this is linking back to their "blog" that goes for the short form summary that doesn't contain any useful info.
Make sure you are ready today to get the update as soon as possible, IE backup your phones or touch's so you can get it as soon as possible.
Obviously they aren't aware that iDevices create a backup every time they sync or update.
I personally can't wait to see what measures this new software takes to control its users and limit their access to other programs.
A suspect a new, tighter collar for all the iSlaves out there, along with a much shorter leash. But hey, it's from Apple and it's shiny!
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
I've been checking for the update periodically all morning. I'm definitely looking forward to it, but not looking forward to their servers getting overloaded. Probably I should just forget about it and try to update tomorrow or Wednesday.
--- What?
Let's get a grip on reality here, people. First and foremost? This device is a CELLPHONE. Many, MANY cellphones have been made before the iPhone was released, and many more have been made since then which NEVER get a firmware update at all! You simply "get what you get" with them, often meaning even functionality the original manufacturer intended the phone to have is stripped out by your cellular carrier and their custom version of the firmware. (EG. Despite it supporting bluetooth data transfer, you *may* get blocked from copying over your own ringtone files from a computer -- or maybe you're disallowed from moving over your contact info as vcard files, or ??)
Yet along comes the iPhone, which by contrast, has an INCREDIBLE amount of flexibility, and people are screaming FASCIST?!
As phone handsets go, it's pretty empowering, I'd say. (And I say this as someone who used to own the original iPhone as well as a 3G, but now uses a Samsung Messager II phone instead of "drinking the kool-aid" and extending my AT&T contract out another 2 years just to get the latest iPhone.)
There has been "word" on when iOS 4 will be available for iPad, and the word is "this fall".
There were two separate development trains for iOS (previously known as "iPhone OS"); one for iPhone and iPod touch, and one for iPad.
I'm not entirely sure why they didn't release it for the 1st Gen iPhone & iPod Touch, does the OS take advantage of hardware not present on those? I'm hoping that my 1st Gen iPod Touch isn't rendered obsolete by this update. I know when iPhone OS 3 came out, there was a big push that all apps needed to be OS 3 tested, I wonder when the same will be required for iOS 4?
Taking guns away from the 99% gives the 1% 100% of the power.
Dear Steve,
Thank you for letting us know what we can do with our computers! I cannot wait to see the choices you have made for me with this latest update. My favorite artists are now too profane for my equipment, but now I am the mayor of my local Starbucks!
Most men, after a little freedom, have preferred authority with the consoling assurances and the economy of effort it brings. -Walter Lippmann
Why has Apple created a disparity between its two newest products, released only a couple of months apart? The iPhone 4 will have twice as much ram as the iPad, a better screen and now a newer OS - why is the iPad looking like the second rate child here?
Don't get me wrong, I have an iPad and I love it, but I am baffled as to why Apple once again puts noses out of shape by making such an obvious difference in spec between the two products. Its almost as tho the iPad is the last of the previous generation, rather than the current generation.
It does look kind of neat but I have all kinds of goodies on a jailbroke touch. I don't think I am going to upgrade to iOS 4 until someone comes up with a jailbreak. The goodies from Cydia repos are worth more than just a few extras that I really don't need.
Those silly Americans, always screwing things up. ;-)
In all seriousness, putting the month before the day is stupid. How did we get into that habit, anyway.
The backup is not mandatory.
It can be canceled/avoided before syncing to save time.
Ignoring the fact that we're entering an era of mobile computers, iOS 4 runs on the iPad too. Is that a phone too by your twisted logic?
This space for rent.
"This device is a CELLPHONE"
Which device, pray tell, is a "CELLPHONE?" When last I checked, the iPad is a tablet computer (at least in terms of its hardware)...
Palm trees and 8
Let's get a grip on reality here, people. First and foremost? This device is a CELLPHONE. Many, MANY cellphones have been made before the iPhone was released, and many more have been made since then which NEVER get a firmware update at all! You simply "get what you get" with them, often meaning even functionality the original manufacturer intended the phone to have is stripped out by your cellular carrier and their custom version of the firmware. (EG. Despite it supporting bluetooth data transfer, you *may* get blocked from copying over your own ringtone files from a computer -- or maybe you're disallowed from moving over your contact info as vcard files, or ??)
Yet along comes the iPhone, which by contrast, has an INCREDIBLE amount of flexibility, and people are screaming FASCIST?!
As phone handsets go, it's pretty empowering, I'd say. (And I say this as someone who used to own the original iPhone as well as a 3G, but now uses a Samsung Messager II phone instead of "drinking the kool-aid" and extending my AT&T contract out another 2 years just to get the latest iPhone.)
If by "flexibility" you mean "you may buy the apps we approve, or the apps we approve, and only from our store so we get a cut" then yeah Apple's phones are just spiffy. So why was Google Voice blocked for such a long time again -- was that because of popular demand by the users? Why is it so hard to get a good solid backed-by-facts explanation for why a particular app is rejected from the App Store again (i.e., quote the exact section of the ToS or similar that it violates)? Nothing fascist to see here, please move along.
Look, here's the deal: if Apple wants to control the platform and the approve all the apps, and use nebulous/arbitrary criteria to reject apps for any length of time even against the express wishes of its users, then they open themselves up to being accused of being fascist control freaks worse than Microsoft. THEY open THEMSELVES up to that accusation, for it otherwise would hold no water. Got it?
The way you fanboys defend and stick up for companies who already have multimillion dollar marketing departments is just sick. Most major corporations engage in business practices that are in some way detrimental to the rest of us. Even your beloved object of fanboy worship does this and is not above doing this. Get over it and quit trying to shoot the messenger who points it out when your beef is with your beloved company.
As phone handsets go, it's pretty empowering, I'd say
That's like saying "as evil dictators go, Mussolini wasn't so bad".
which is totally what she said
My old Wince phone was far more flexible and updateable than an iAnything. My new Android phone is better yet!
Back in the day they were Compaq luggables. :p
Luggable
Remember to maintain your supply of
how many of those cell phones that never got a FW update cost 400 usd ?
I'm positive, don't belive me look at my karma
Where I work, IE6 represents about the same 6% that the 1G iPhone does for you. But we're still expected to devote considerable effort supporting that decrepit old fossil. Every once and a while somebody decides, for this project or that, that we can leave IE6 behind. But no one's stood up and made the decision that the company as a whole will do so.
Ironic... in an industry where we talk so much about Moore's law and how your latest shiny new toy is already obsolete when you walk out the store and such; that we still haven't dropped something so godawfully old and busted as IE6.
Imagine all the people...
So the iPad won't be running iOS 4 right away.... Apple is really running the risk of having a very segmented market a la Android, but they are doing it without any of Androids advantages. For instance even though it was only released two months ago the iPad only has half the amount of RAM that the iPhone 4 has and a lot fewer sensors. This means that there will be a large group of applications that will run on the iPhone 4 but will not run on the iPad which will wind up frustrating users to no end. While I realize that technology advances with time, there was no rational reason for Apple to upgrade hardware, but when you release devices within 2 months of each other that vary so wildly, you are doing something wrong.
And while this problem is unlikely to affect them in the near term, in the long term users are going to become as frustrated with the segmentation of the iOS market as they were/are with the segmentation in other cell phone environments. The EXACT same segmentation that Steve decried when first announcing the iPhone/iPod touch SDK.
Monstar L
Really? Have you gotten Android 2.2 on your "far more flexible and updatable" phone yet? No? Oh.
To be fair, the high end iPad costs only $829.00 plus a 3G contract. As computers go that's really cheap. Someone will point out that the 3G contract is more expensive then the computer, but you don't have to get a 3G contract to have a functional iPad. The last computer I bought cost over $3000.00. They basically do the same things. Almost equally well. It's kinda depressing.
Apple disappointed everyone (except the 2 million or so people that bought an iPad) by releasing a horribly locked down device. Everyone wanted a tablet that ran OSX. Except all the people that couldn't give less of a shit and bought one anyway.
Cool art gallery, if you're into that sort of thing.
Ignoring the fact that we're entering an era of mobile computers, iOS 4 runs on the iPad too. Is that a phone too by your twisted logic?
It can connect to cell networks.
Using skype I can make calls on it.
By what definition is it not a phone?
Just because it's large doesn't mean it can't be a phone too. Otherwise the NGage would have been an impossibility.
And before you start chuckling about holding up an iPad to your head, two words - bluetooth headset.
For someone on Slashdot you seem to have a pretty dull imagination as to what a phone can be.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
they are computers with massively reduced user freedom
I think it's an appliance in the same way that my PS3 is an appliance. There is a computer under the covers and the device is quite general purpose, but in the end its an appliance because I don't have the freedom to tinker.
I think "computer with massively reduced user freedom" could be part of a decent definition of appliance.
Those silly Americans, always screwing things up. ;-)
In all seriousness, putting the month before the day is stupid. How did we get into that habit, anyway.
We started "abbreviating" it how we say it: month, day, year: June 21st, 2010 = 6/21/2010
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Well, I think the point was that before the iPhone there really wasn't much of a sane market for cellphone apps. I totally agree with you on the walled garden crap, but the iPhone was still leaps and bounds ahead of most smart phones at the time. It's like bitching that your brand new shiny sports car doesn't have leather seats and they won't let you put in aftermarket leather seats without voiding the warranty while conveniently forgetting that you were driving a rusty pinto before. Now that other devices are catching up it is putting pressure on Apple to play a little nicer and be less draconian. I don't expect an overnight change since big part of their success is that they can deliver a very simple and identical user experience across the board. The worst part is, that if they just opened the gates for whatever app and a malicious app made it through they would be taking flak from the same people that howl about their strict control of the gate. You know, the same way Microsoft takes so much crap over shitty third party software crashing worse than a heroin addict in rehab. Also, people that don't like them don't have to buy them. However, they seem compelled to go on at length about how that device is evil and doesn't actually meet the needs of the owner and that they know exactly what would meet those needs. You know...kinda the same crap that those companies pay their marketing departments to do. The only real difference is that the marketing company actually knows more about the competing product than what they read on the internet, and they have a vested interest in getting people to switch.
The only change I can believe in is what I find in my couch cushions.
The only thing more annoying than a slight grammatical error is when an idiot grammar Nazi shows up and posts as AC. If you are a coward and need to post as AC then shut up and F Off! If you are NOT a coward, don't post as AC, but want to correct someone's grammar then you may also shut up and F Off!
Can't wait to see all the neat new stuff that won't run on my stale phone.
I bought an original base (4 GB) iPhone a couple months after it came out--refurbished, $249. When the 3G came out I sold my original one on eBay for right about what I paid for it*, plus or minus a few bucks (I forget exactly, and I had a case but lost the headphones, etc.) and bought a base (8 GB) 3G. When the 3GS came out I sold my $199 3G for $305 and got I a base (16 GB) 3GS--I just had to wait a couple months for an anniversary to roll around and then the upgrade price dropped from $399 to the regular $199. Now, for some reason, AT&T is telling me I can upgrade to an iPhone 4 for good old $199 so I'm just gonna wait a few weeks--a) for them to become available again and b) because I never buy new stuff right away.
So basically, I paid $249 three years ago and for that, I've gotten an annual free upgrade to a faster phone with more features and double the storage every time (this is the first year that won't happen) and, as a nice bonus, my phone has never been out of warranty. You'd think someone who runs a tech site might be aware of all this.
* vendor lock-in is usually evil but it has treated me very well. :-) Due to Apple's exclusive deal with AT&T, people who want iPhones but are on other networks pay quite a bit for used ones.
Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
Actually, it does work. There IS no 3rd generation touch at 8G, thats a 2nd gen Touch, the same relationship as the 8GB Iphone 3G vs the 16/32GB 3GS
You just don't get multitasking (lack of RAM), but otherwise its a full iOS 4 device.
Test your net with Netalyzr
Wow really? I heard it ran great on 3gs.
And the other 80% of the cellphone market that uses subscription crapware I can only get through the telco is different how?
To be fair, the high end iPad costs only $829.00 plus a 3G contract. As computers go that's really cheap. Someone will point out that the 3G contract is more expensive then the computer, but you don't have to get a 3G contract to have a functional iPad. The last computer I bought cost over $3000.00. They basically do the same things. Almost equally well. It's kinda depressing.
I call troll. For $500 (yes, including monitor) you can have a modern system capable of occasional gaming, playback of HD video, and minor audio production/graphic design work.
Yes. $500. Including a monitor.
Living With a Nerd
I personally can't wait to see what measures this new software takes to control its users and limit their access to other programs.
Obviously you were trolling, but just in case you are really that ignorant...
With each release, Apple opens the device further. Can you download an application from anywhere and run it without jailbreaking? No, but then you never could, so that's not a reduction in user freedom.
So what can a user do that they couldn't before?
Multitasking
More choice in search engines
Freedom to use any bluetooth keyboard with the phone (finally).
Applications that have full access to camera, phone API, and many other system features finally accessible.
The thing people like you always miss about Apple is that they start off with very limited products, and then slowly open them up as they figure out what works. So in the end you and people like you are stuck in your old mindset of any given Apple product being incredibly closed because you never bothered to look at many details beyond the first iteration, while the later models of products have a ton of capability and people think you are bonkers for complaining.
If you want to see if an Apple product will be successful, you only have to think of it like this - compared to the competition how much ability not offered by the Apple product COULD be offered via a software update, vs. something that is missing from the core design? When you start thinking about it that way, you may gain a better understanding as to what will work in the market.
Using this technique for example, you could have easily predicted the AppleTV wasn't really going anywhere while realizing the iPad would be a hit.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I personally like apple screening all of the crap out. Sure there are some potentially good stuff they have not allowed but I dont miss it. Every kind of app I have wanted has been there in some form. When you need a phone to constantly function as a phone and be secure a more closed model where you cant install any old crap off of the internet seems to be the better way to go. Sure there are the downsides of having limitations put on what you can install from an outside source but you also have the added benefit that at least someone has checked to make sure the program is functional.
No one can argue that apple has good reasons for denying every app that it has denied because they don't, but for people that actually own iphones, we really don't care too much.
Irregardless of their app ecosystem apple products (hardware and software) are by far the best at total system integration. When everything works together like your laptop, phone and tablet, when they all keep in sync and the management of that syncing is easy it is a beautiful thing. I have plenty of technical knowledge and work as a software engineer so I could get all of the android syncing stuff to work, but no matter how good it works it wont have that tight system integration that apple puts in all of its products.
If you choose to live in apple's walled garden, life is great. You have stability performance and usefulness. Once you experience this all come together everything else seems inferior.
But he wasn't so bad. I don't get your point. You have to have an evil dictator, so don't you want one who isn't too bad?
Cool art gallery, if you're into that sort of thing.
"For instance even though it was only released two months ago the iPad only has half the amount of RAM that the iPhone 4 has and a lot fewer sensors. This means that there will be a large group of applications that will run on the iPhone 4 but will not run on the iPad which will wind up frustrating users to no end."
What makes you think there'll be a "large group of applications" that falls into that category? While I don't have any more of a basis for my conclusion than you do, intuitively I would think the number of apps that will require an iPhone 4 to run will be very small - mostly just high performance games, and very few of those. I'll bet the 3G will still be the lowest common denominator, and the performance target, for at least two more years.
Hey, after owning it for 10 months, my 3GS now only gets about 3 hours of battery power, and that's it just sitting there, 3G-only. So I can't do any worse.
Some political cartoon apps were accepted, only because of the media storm surrounding them, but not all:
http://www.cloudfour.com/apples-policy-on-satire-16-rejected-apps/
Also note that on that list, several of the apps were only accepted after altering their "controversial" content.
Palm trees and 8
1: A notification system that doesn't use annoying modal popups 2: Speech-to-text into all fields (*note* I refrained from mentioning the AT&T lock-in, but we all know it's an issue)
(%i1) factor(777353);
(%o1) 777353
touché
If he's the Walrus then can I be a penguin please?
My last computer cost less than $300. A netbook doesn't suit everyone's needs, but most people don't need $3k worth of computing either.
Tic-Tac-Toe, Global Thermonuclear War, and relationships all have the same winning move.
Did anyone else read the headline and think, isn't IOS up to version 12?
uhm, who's trolling? Here is the consensus definition... "with 'trolling' being used to describe many intentionally provocative actions outside of an online context."
If I may be so bold as to suggest, well some intentionally provocative suggestion to better your perspective and improve your love life, as opposed to spending so much clearly productive time here.
"If...you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible warning" - Catherine Aird
Some Cisco marketing person screwed up bigtime: he (presumably) saw a huge pile of money from Apple, but doesn't see all the hidden damage done to Cisco as now their flagship product, IOS, becomes unsearchable on the web at large and hugely confused in the future.
As such, that idiot should really be fired for incompetence.
Test your net with Netalyzr
No, it's that Apple is NOT bad. They are good but not perfect. And everyone else was a HELL of a lot worse before they came along and I'm sure you weren't wrapping yourselves in the "freedom" flag back then.
All this crap has some legitimacy, but it is blown WAY out of proportion. Never mind that other companies were (and are) far worse, but these same idiots don't seem to be posting anything about them. The reason is some people just blindly hate Apple and this is their avenue to scream.
You make a good point, but the real reason they "give away" updates is so that they can continue to draw you in to purchase more apps through their store. Most other carriers make next to nothing on additional apps. Even Droid can load your phone full of goodies without paying anything for tons of apps, and yet Google will undoubtedly send updates as well. No big hooray for Apple. They make great stuff, but they are not altruistic.
jsut athnoer menagiensls ltitle psrhae for you to dcoede. Why do we wtsae our tmie dnoig tihs?
Actually you answered your own question. Anyone with a Compaq portable would need an iPod touch.
Given that it was only released 30 odd days ago, I think you can drop the bullshit.
I've been running iOS 4 on a 3GS for a couple weeks now (ever since they released the GM at WWDC). The battery life isn't different from the previous version.
So, where did you hear all these accounts of the new OS being a battery hog? Cause I haven't seen them, and my own experience is quite different than what you claim.
Touch is an adjective here, wouldn't it be "iPods Touch"?
No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
So the iPad won't be running iOS 4 right away.... Apple is really running the risk of having a very segmented market a la Android, but they are doing it without any of Androids advantages. For instance even though it was only released two months ago the iPad only has half the amount of RAM that the iPhone 4 has and a lot fewer sensors.
The iPad has the same amount of RAM that the very latest phone (the 3Gs) offers. And the same number of sensors (minus the camera, which is not exactly a "sensor"). Only the very latest phone, which initially will have a fraction of the 3G/3Gs owner numbers has one more sensor - a gyroscope, which mostly refines what you can do with the accelerometer.
So where is the fractioning? Most developers will still be targeting iOS3.1 as a base for a while, with support for some iOS4 features for at least a half year or so - time enough for the iPad to gain the update. In fact that point will probably be the trigger where developers could realistically move to iOS4 alone, since by then most people will have upgraded (including Touch owners since finally Touch updates are free).
And while this problem is unlikely to affect them in the near term, in the long term users are going to become as frustrated with the segmentation of the iOS market
In the "long term" there's iOS4, since the iPad and iPhone will both be running it - yes you can't have iOS4 on the original iPhone 1st gen, but at this point that is a fraction of the devices on the market.
Apple has done a good job thinking around the fragmentation problem, including how to handle iPhones with different resolutions...
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Interesting. I've been running it on a 3GS for about a week now and haven't noticed any stark differences in battery life so far.
Releases what?
Oh, you mean Apple releases iOS 4 today. iOS 4 will be released.
C'mon man, let's not ruin our language.
"There is no time, sir, at which ties do not matter," Jeeves, (Jeeves and the Impending Doom)
I guess since I can make a call on my laptop then that makes it a phone?
According to the twisted logic of your fellow fanboys, yes. See http://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1693064&cid=32641450
The iPhone has done more to liberate consumers in the mobile market than any phone before or since. It's not perfect, but the mobile landscape was radically different 3 years ago and much has changed for the better because of the iPhone's release. In fact it was so good that Google, RIM, Windows, etc. jumped on the bandwagon and decided to copy it.
Err Windows Mobile, Blackberry etc. never had restrictions on app developers. But now WP7 is going to have the same restrictions by following in Apple's footsteps. If anything, the iPhone has actually made it worse for the mobile market by your own logic.
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Note: I an not the GP poster.
It's a reason, certainly not the only one.
GLaDOS for President 2016! "Well here we are again. It's always such a pleasure." -- GLaDOS, 2011
by all accounts, iOS 4 is a huge battery hog on the 3GS
Being a developer I've been running iOS4 for around three weeks now. I've seen no alteration of battery use at all on my 3GS.
So rather than being "by all accounts", do you have ANY accounts where this is the case? Perhaps it was the first few betas which obviously are going to have issues...
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
The Internet is the new Radio/TV. Controlling what content (software, or media) you are allowed to install on your internet-access devices is tantamount to controlling what you can watch on your TV or listen on your radio. Can you imagine not being allowed to watch Fox or MSNBC ?
The Cloud - because you don't care if your apps and data are up in the air.
The way you fanboys defend
The way you dismiss those who defend as "fanboys" is childish.
There is more then one point of view; there are reasoned arguments to be made on more then one side, and there are more then one objective criteria that matters can be judged on, and more then one principle that can be important to people.
Its tired. No one can be even vaguely positive towards anything Apple does without being dismissed as a "fanboy" -- even if you criticize something Apple does a breath after you praise another thing they've done. Hell, you can be only moderately-pro-Apple and then luxuriate praise on something Android does and yet if you point out even one flaw or weakness -- even if its purely objective -- and your entire point of view is immediately dismissed as a "fanboy". The *automatic* vitriol that a lot of Android supporters (Fandroids? :P) spew at anything even vaguely pro-Apple is absurd.
Grow up and drop the ad-hominem nonsense: if you need it to win an argument, you are just utter fail. Recognize there are *actual reasons* people *actually like* Apple products. Recognize there are *actual reasons* why people *actually do not like* Apple products.
Recognize that these reasons may be *different* for *different people*, and that it doesn't make anyone stupid, brainwashed, or some mindless cult without any sort of reason.
I don't understand something.
A $829 tablet is as useful as a $3000 computer?
Perhaps if all you do is browse and check email. If you have any actual work to do, I'd be willing to bet that the iPad rapidly becomes lacking. In fact, as someone has already pointed out, you can get a computer more powerful than the iPad for less.
Quite frankly, the iPad is pretty much a toy. There is no real utility in it, aside from being a somewhat different way of sitting at the couch and surfing the web (different than say, sitting at the couch and surfing the web with you laptop). I can see some utility in capacitive touchscreen laptops because they have both an actual keyboard and a mouse-alternative (touching the screen for action). When I encounter such a system, I will buy it instead.
And it will likely be a better system for the money than the iPad.
Which device, pray tell, is a "CELLPHONE?"
The iPhone.
There's never enough when you have too little
Haha! By all accounts you are making this up because the only people I have ever heard comment on it are the ones replying to you and saying that you are incorrect.
Why? Today Apple will release iOS4. Tonight I will have it on my iPhone 3G. Why is 30 days not a long time to wait?
And the other 80% of the cellphone market that uses subscription crapware I can only get through the telco is different how?
Erm, what about Android, Blackberry and Windows Mobile? You don't need to go through the telco for them.
This space for rent.
I've got a 2g iPod Touch, and while I don't expect to see all the features, it's my understanding that it's compatible with the new OS. Downloaded the new iTunes, and it says that IOS 3.1.3, the version that's installed already, is up to date. Does the iOS update go out separately from the iTunes update? Or is something screwy with my iPod?
The CB App. What's your 20?
Why post this response now instead of waiting a few hours and posting it when it is more relevant?
Remember to maintain your supply of
As far as I'm concerned, there is one and only one Correct Way(TM) to write a date or date/time. It is:
2010-06-21 15:37:21 (Which is the exact date and time in UTC that I typed that.)
You go from most general (year) to most specific (seconds). Always write times in 24-hour format, and always include leading zeroes. Why is that the Correct Way(TM)? Because when you ASCII-alphabetize a list of such dates and times, they will sort into the correct chronological order.
I guess the 21/6 rationale is that some people call it "the twenty-first of June." Those people are wrong. It is "June twenty-first," or if you prefer, "June twenty-one." Do those people call the time "the thirty-seventh of three p.m."? I think not.
If you really want to get fancy, you can use alternative separators. 2010.06.21 15:37:21 is fine. Or if you're into saving space (like in a script or program), just 20100621153721 works, too. The Oracle format for that is 'YYYY-MM-DD HH24:MI:SS'. I use the same format for storing dates in MySQL and SQLite. Whenever I write a timestamp to a log file, I use that format so that the GNU sort command works on it. Whenever I name a file with a date in it, I use the format so that sane operating systems that sort files by name will also sort it chronologically. When I put dates/datetimes in something like Excel, I also use the format in case someone ever exports the file to a text file or to a CSV or something.
I really, really do wish that everyone would stop using all other crazy date/datetime formats.
It kind of reminds me of how, I can't remember who it was, but one of the early developers of protocols said that he regretted making hostnames things like mail.google.com. It really should have been com.google.mail. Think about it; it looks weird now, but if that were the way it worked and you had a ginormous list of FQDNs and sorted it, all your top-level domains would collate together, followed by all of your company names collating together. com.google.docs, com.google.mail, com,google.maps, com.google.www would all be together, instead of mail.google.com, mail.yahoo.com, mail.whatever.com all globbing up. It would also really make it hard for phishers who use URL munging to mislead people.
1: A notification system that doesn't use annoying modal popups 2: Speech-to-text into all fields (*note* I refrained from mentioning the AT&T lock-in, but we all know it's an issue)
How about "wireless sync"? Can someone tell me why a wireless device has to be plugged in to sync a damn MP3 file? I have no less than 6 apps on my iPhone that do some form of wireless sync with my PC, but the core phone features dont' support it. I'm sure we know the reason: "Steve doesn't like it", but what I want to know is WHY??
Heavy flow day? Cramping? Bloating? Zits? Hope you have a better day!
Nature-show announcer voice: The Apple Fanboy is a fickle beast, able to turn rabid and frothing-at-the-mouth suddenly and without warning upon fact-based criticism of Apple. Observed behavior may include, but is not limited to, hyperbole, excessive use of capitals and punctuation, a belittling or insulting tone in response to factual criticism, and a literal interpretation of "fascism" when convenient despite realizing it is meant to express "too controlling". Despite these maladaptive traits, this species has been successful in the wild and multiplies at a very high rate.
About the Google Voice deal, I'm betting that the only reason why Apple reversed their decision is because Google is a large well-known company with a lot of clout. Had Apple remained completely unreasonable about Google Voice, it would be trivial for Google to make sure that tens of millions of people knew all about it. Indeed, we did learn about it. That makes Google a bit more difficult to push around than the average individual developer. What we don't know is how many other innovative apps have been denied from individuals and companies who are small-fry and unable to do anything about it.
You want to create a walled garden, I'm fine with that so long as you do not hold a monopoly provided that certain conditions are met. These conditions are:
That'd be the correct way to do walled gardens. It would greatly cut down on shit like "hey, Google Voice uses data services to send voice which might reduce our revenue from voice minutes, we better find some made-up reason to reject it!"
FUD. Battery life has been fine on my 3GS with iOS4.
You seem to be a little touchy on the subject!
Palm Treo $699.00
Nokia smartphones $499-$999
Samsung phones in general NEVER have upgrades available... $499-999 in price.
motorola phones outside the Android ones never get updates. and the Droid took forever to get 2.1 to it... mostly because of users screaming at Verizon about it...
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Err what?
I am beginning to think that you might not actually be a Apple fanboy but a cunning troll. I can't imagine someone being really this stupid.
This space for rent.
Yes except for the fact that the iPad has a much larger screen but still no dedicated GPU memory, so for all intents and purposes it has LESS ram than the 3GS
That is true, but for development it actually doesn't end up mattering much. Because even though you have 256MB of RAM, you were never allowed near that ceiling as a developer. Since memory is constrained you always had to be careful when using a lot of memory, and respond to system memory warnings.
In practice, there's been no difference targeting the iPad and the 3Gs, even developing photo applications - those can use so much memory anyway, you have to be VERY careful of the memory you are using no matter the device.
What it does mean for the end user when multitasking arrives, is that the iPad is a more likely to have large background apps booted out of memory sooner (stuff like Pandora should be fine since it consumes virtually no memory to simply stream audio).
There will be some classes of applications (like iMovie) that have to have the extra RAM and cannot work without it. But that's a pretty limited class of applications. Mostly there would at most be perhaps a few features enabled on an iPhone 4 that would not be on an earlier device... except that of course with double the resolution, the iPhone 4 ends up looking more similar to a 256MB phone than it would seem at first glance. I think iMovie might be as much about the processor as the RAM.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
they are computers with massively reduced user freedom
I think it's an appliance in the same way that my PS3 is an appliance. There is a computer under the covers and the device is quite general purpose, but in the end its an appliance because I don't have the freedom to tinker.
I think "computer with massively reduced user freedom" could be part of a decent definition of appliance.
I am getting sick of the game console comparisons. People are NOT replacing real computers with gaming consoles, but there's an increasing push(especially by Apple fanboys) that the iDevices are the future of computing.
Read about how a 'network security expert' replaced this laptop with an iPad --> http://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1693064&cid=32641740
Read these articles about how the iPad is supposed to take over computing and make desktops and laptop obsolete:
http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9175600/The_iPad_is_the_future_for_home_computing
http://gizmodo.com/5506692/ipad-is-the-future
http://www.macworld.com/article/146038/2010/01/ipad_future_shock.html
http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/02/ipad-future/
http://techcrunch.com/2010/01/27/ipad/
Gaming consoles were never considered the future of computing, that's why they don't represent a threat to freedom. This is the reason that people are justifiably upset about Apple's restrictions.
This space for rent.
15" Laptops start at around $500 for a dual core and decent (but not amazing) battery life. I'd have to say that $829 is only competitively priced if you're comparing it against a Macbook. But I suspect most people who get an iPad will also get a laptop, and that the two devices aren't competing with one another. Because the iPad and tablets in general are less functional than laptops in many ways, but are useful enough to some people for the sales on tablets to have picked up finally (after 2 decades of struggling). I'd argue it is a combination of the richness of the web, the ubiquity of wireless and multitouch interfaces that turn tablets from a dead duck into a media darling.
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
Wait a second. 'Flexibility' is a neutral term -- it can be either good or bad. Flexibility controlled by the end user is almost always good. Flexibility controlled by the producer can be good, but has a history of being used in less than benevolent ways, especially in the computer industry.
Flexibility, improperly implemented, can be just another way for a corporation to screw over its customers. To my mind, the jury is still out on exactly how Apple intends to use its phones' flexibility.
Genocide Man -- Life is funny. Death is funnier. Mass murder can be hilarious.
The so called "smart phones" have become much more (or less depending on how you look at it) that simply a cellphone. Were it simply a phone I doubt there would be much arguing here, but they have are becoming general purpose computing devices. In many cases (both the iPhone and ANdroid sets) the phone gets less attention than the application framework does - they are OK phones but if you primarily want a phone there are MUCH better choices out there.
Would we be arguing about HTML5/Flash on just a cellphone? The openness of a application store? No, that's because we have highly mobile computing devices that just happen to also work as our cellphones. As such yes it is important as to how open.
Apple won on both the iPhone market and iPod market because they noticed people griping about what they couldn't do and went and did it. The iPod is *not* a multi-purpose device - it is primarily a music player that just happens to have some other stuff tacked on. No one is looking at their iPod and saying "Gee, I *really* wish it did this". People were doing that with the older MP3 players. People were also heavily doing that with thier smart phones - all sorts of wanting it to be a general purpose computing platform. Apple understood this and made the first go at it. What Apple isn't seeing is that many people are *still* going "Gee I really wish my smart phone would do this" and they are going to loose because of that (the iPod market is pretty much wrapped up, their vision works VERY well there).
One can argue all day that it isn't fair, and heck maybe you even have something of a point (for some they are phones first and the applications are secondary) - but in the end all it matters is user are frustrated with certain things and when something comes out that satisfies those complaints whilst not breaking their old uses the they get replaced. The Android phones may do it, but there are still complaints there that someone could address so unless those get fixed (and Google is more than capable of doing so) there they will not be the long term winners either. Apple has never and most likely never will understand this. That being said Apple has historically been happy that way and turns a profit so I can't say they are wrong either - people who agree with the Apple way of doing things loves them and are dedicated customers - just do not drink the cool aid and think it is going to do something it is not. Lets face it, the iMac is profitable and many consider all five sold a year to be a HUGE success story - those that like the idea love theirs, one can do a lot worse than that.
------- Sorry about the spelling, I suffer from two problems. Dyslexia makes it difficult to spell well, lazy makes it
Look, here's the deal: if Apple wants to control the platform and the approve all the apps, and use nebulous/arbitrary criteria to reject apps for any length of time even against the express wishes of its users, then they open themselves up to being accused of being fascist control freaks worse than Microsoft. THEY open THEMSELVES up to that accusation, for it otherwise would hold no water. Got it?
Best Buy is such a fascist organization. I went there the other day and insisted that the store manager place my software on their shelf, and he said no! And he didn't even quote me a section from the Best Buy Corporate Handbook! I call for a full boycott of Best Buy.
That's terribly unfair, sir!
Your unfounded accusations ruin a man's rep. The Joker is not and has never been a Fascist, and I believe you owe him an apology, sir!
I put on my robe and wizard hat..
Does Cisco care that their IOS product name is being infringed? I don't think the USPTO differentiates case.
So if he had said XBOX instead of PS3, would XNA have killed this argument?
Same price, too. $99/year.
The statistics you present appear to be for an app which isn't typical, and which has such a small sample size as to be probably irrelevant (7.2% simulator?!) For the last few months, consumer apps with large distributions typically see something around 2% of their users (+/1 one or two percent) on first generation devices (total). This doesn't really change your conclusion, but you might want to be careful about what other conclusions you draw from that sample.
If you mod me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine.
Year-month-day is superior to the other two conventions because filenames sort properly. Plus, subjectively, it seems more rational to me to put the more important thing first than the least important thing. Typical Europeans putting their least foot forward. The American convention is probably from how dates are typically read in English. September sixth, two-thousand ten. Rather than Sixth of September two-thousand ten. Both work in English but the first is preferred in America and sounds less archaic and formal to my American ears.
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
Let's hope this is as good as when they showed the OS to us at the WWDC.
http://www.thetechnologygeek.org
Hahahahaha! Sorry, but I laughed out loud at that. Android fanbois are hilarious in their hypocrisy.
"iPod Touch" is a proper noun that describes an object. The construction "iPod Touch's" is correct -- it is the proper possessive for that proper noun. "iPod touches" is incorrect -- it separates the two pieces of the proper noun and conflates one of them into a verb. I'd rather not have my iPod touching anybody, thank you.
I love grammar nazis who don't know what they're talking about. They're like fish in a barrel, only less erudite.
Genocide Man -- Life is funny. Death is funnier. Mass murder can be hilarious.
I understand your point of view, but I look at it like this: soft comfy handcuffs are still handcuffs. It's better to complain about them or avoid them right up front, instead of waiting until they stop you personally from doing something you want to do. Think back to the famous "First they came for the trade unionists ..." .
I expect most app developers will move quickly to iOS4, given the small and declining incentive to develop and test for continuing compatibility with previous iPhone OS releases.
People who are not on iOS4 within the next 30 days, even if they represent a fraction of the market, say 1/5 or even 1/3, will be dramatically underrepresented amongst the pool of people buying apps. People who won't download a free OS upgrade are unlikely to be buying apps.
First generation devices are only a few percent of the total user base, already, and shrinking every month. Mostly, it will be the crackers and pirates on 2nd generation devices who will be stuck on iPhone OS 3.x for awhile. Since that entire pool only every buys one app to share amongst them, there's not much profit being left on the table if you don't serve them.
If you mod me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine.
iTouchii?
XML is a known as a key material required to create SMD: Software of Mass Destruction
Not to worry. You can spank your monkey all you want, with your new iOS update. HTML is the preferred platform for pr0n, or didn't you get the memo?
If you mod me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine.
Only if that also would have killed any arguments against the App Store. You still have to pay Microsoft to develop for it, you distribute through their distribution channel (Xbox Live Arcade), and they have final approval power over what goes in their store.
Now all you need to do to pull all the trolls into the conversation is post an article about Apple. Positive, negative, true, false, rumor or fact...
XML is a known as a key material required to create SMD: Software of Mass Destruction
What about all those people building supercomputers out of PS3s?
They've made it worse for the mobile market, by making it easier for developers to sell their wares, and for consumers to purchase them?
Not a troll... An Apple customer.
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
So if he had said XBOX instead of PS3, would XNA have killed this argument?
It would have killed his argument, since as you say anyone can build for it and thus you can in fact tinker with it also.
Although I would say, that the iOS platform is more generally useful as to the kinds of things you can develop (though that will change when Windows 7 Mobile arrives).
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
They're talking about dumbphones/featurephones. You know, the type of phone that is still the majority of the cellphone market. They're locked down way more than any Apple device, and yet none of you guys were out crying "Fascism!" about them.
True, the iPhone dev kit is much more accessible. The last time I checked, a PS3 dev kit was about $2,000 (unless you were in academia) and the developer license from Sony made Apple's license look very good indeed.
If I'd been running iOS 4 on my iPhone 3GS for a while now, I wouldn't be allowed to tell you that you are repeating claims which are inconsistent with my experience.
If you mod me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine.
Tell that to my G1. Its less old than the iPhone 3G, and yet it hasn't received as many updates, and won't be receiving an update to the newest firmware this summer.
My point was that a computer doesn't have to cost $3,000, like the GP claimed. I never said doing so was a talent, just that it was possible. Thanks for being an asshole though, I appreciate it.
Living With a Nerd
I personally like apple screening all of the crap out
You mean crap like all those iFart apps?
Sure there are some potentially good stuff they have not allowed but I dont miss it.
Err, how do you know you don't miss it when you don't know what they are or could be?
Every kind of app I have wanted has been there in some form. When you need a phone to constantly function as a phone and be secure a more closed model where you cant install any old crap off of the internet seems to be the better way to go
Some people wanted to run Google Voice as an app, but were denied because Apple didn't want them to do so.
If you choose to live in apple's walled garden, life is great. You have stability performance and usefulness. Once you experience this all come together everything else seems inferior.
If Apple were to relax the DRM on the iDevices, people like you can still use Apple's app store only if you wanted. No one would force you to download apps from Google or whatever.
This space for rent.
You are wrong. Consumers have backlashed against totalitarian devices before. Examples include DIVX (no, the *other* one). As for hacking locked devices, you just need to remember the CueCat or TiVo.
When even Microsoft used to be more open about their platform, you know you are a totalitarian asshole of a company. Just because the regime is wrapped into a layer of propaganda does not make it less so.
It's purple now.
What do you consider a computer? And why would you ever pay $3k for one? Back in the 90's yes, but today?
Sure you can go for multiple CPU, 16 gigs of ram and 4 24 inch full HD displays in landscape... that might just about reach the 3k figure...
I used to build my own machines up til about 2003 - my last one did cost me near that number, but that was idiocy on my part - a couple of designer LCD screens that made up 1/3 of the cost, several hard drived, top of the range CPU/PSU/MoBo/Cooler/Graphics card...
I've matured a little and though I have a lot of respect for some of the guys out there that push their hardware to the limit, for 99+% of the population, you go for the wonderful reality of the pareto paradox... You can get 80% of the all round performance for 20% of the price (specialist uses are excluded here of course, but $600 buys you a decent machine these days...)
I am very sucseptible to "let's have another drink"
Nah. The handful of folk searching for IOS will start typing "Cisco IOS" in the search field. Who knows, Cisco might even be on the verge of renaming IOS, given their efforts to expand into the enterprise server market.
If you mod me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine.
Downloading it now
I hope this caused some synapses to fire.
No one cares dumbass. If it's really that big of a problem with you then put the barrel in your mouth and pull the trigger.
Its tired. No one can be even vaguely positive towards anything Apple does without being dismissed as a "fanboy" -- even if you criticize something Apple does a breath after you praise another thing they've done. Hell, you can be only moderately-pro-Apple and then luxuriate praise on something Android does and yet if you point out even one flaw or weakness -- even if its purely objective -- and your entire point of view is immediately dismissed as a "fanboy". T
It goes both ways, say something remotely negative about Apple and you're labeled an Apple hater and the 'Overrated' mods come on and on for days out of woodwork.
This space for rent.
On some blog and magazine forums people have been collecting critical reviews to help bolster the argument of the iPad not being good enough for whatever purpose they envisioned their need to be.
I found one particular article disparaging the iPad very interesting and ironic. They referenced an article from either the Wall Street Journal or the New York Times, where the reviewer thought that the iPad was useless because the iPad basically turned a computer into a TV device.
I couldn't help but smile at the irony - Wasn't that the holy grail of computing (for end users) - that a computer is as easy to use as a TV (toaster, etc)?
Now that Apple has come pretty close to that goal (ideal?), it gets disparaged?
Luckily the target users see the iPad for what it is, unlike so many holier than thou tech snobs in this forum.
It will be fun when Apple filters all third party advertising in iPhone so you can be force fed with their advertisement platform instead.
It's unfortunate that you haven't considered the major difference between Apple and Microsoft in your analysis. Apple is a major backer of another platform, not just Cocoa Touch. The open standards based internet is supported by Apple and Google, and undermined by Microsoft at nearly every turn. Sure, there are valid criticisms of Apple's curated platform, Cocoa Touch, but there is a vast difference between them and Microsoft.
If you mod me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine.
This is just my personal opinion, but there doesn't seem to have been as much Apple fanboism here as their used to be. Or FOSS fanboism. Or even anti-Microsoftism. The big evil one hasn't done anything big and evil in a while, and isn't nearly as relevant as they used to be. Linux passed from a meme into a tool, one that is stable and not terribly exciting. Like a hammer. And the diehard Apple fanbois seem to have evolved from worshiping at the feet of Jobs to admiring the hardware and complaining about the policies.
There are still a lot of Free-Market-Fundies around, but they seem to be everywhere these days. And the Anti-Copyright Crusaders have added a lot of noise to /. discussions over the past few years. There is a lot of overlap there with the Anti-Corporates. And the Android worshipers are getting a little annoying, but are nowhere near as bad as the other fanboys used to be. They seem to be in balance with the Anti-Google / Pro Privacy twin groups.
I know that's not a lot of evidence presented above, just personal opinion. But the pendulum seems to have moved.
The ______ Agenda
That's funny -- I bought a computer from Best Buy, and then got some software to run on the computer from another store, without even voiding my warranty -- even when I go ahead and install a different operating system than the one my computer came with! My friend bought an iPad, but when he tried to get some software from a store not run by Apple, he discovered that the device had been designed to prevent him from doing that, and that any attempt to circumvent that design would automatically void the warranty and came with some legal threats from Apple.
Palm trees and 8
Just checked iTunes and update showed!!!
This isn't a mystery. iOS 4 will be available for the iPad this fall. The iPad development track was a secret project with a tiny staff, which started from a fork of iPhone OS 3. Their work needs to be ported over to iOS 4, and the iOS 4 needs to be ported to the iPad. Good food takes time.
If you mod me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine.
And everyone else was a HELL of a lot worse before they came along and I'm sure you weren't wrapping yourselves in the "freedom" flag back then.
Huh, which smartphone vendor was a lot worse before they came along? Windows Mobile was always open, Blackberry was open and Android was FOSS.
The reason is some people just blindly hate Apple and this is their avenue to scream.
Looks like some people just blindly loooove Apple and can't digest ANY criticism.
This space for rent.
It's like bitching that your brand new shiny sports car doesn't have leather seats and they won't let you put in aftermarket leather seats without voiding the warranty while conveniently forgetting that you were driving a rusty pinto before.
It's more like you can't install a GPS device in a car without forking over 30% of the price to the car manufacturer, that too only if they approve it. And the 'rusty pinto' comment makes it sound like we should be forever be beholden to Apple for gracing us with shiny iDevices and not speak out against their deficiences and desire for control.
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The OP said:
And the other 80% of the cellphone market that uses subscription crapware I can only get through the telco is different how?
How does the 'other 80% of the cellphone market' equate only dumbphones? Anyway, Windows Mobile, Blackberry, and Android were around even before the Holy Phone debuted and still had none of the nonsense restrictions that Apple is imposing.
This space for rent.
"There's a way to do literally everything I want to do"
You are not the entire world, first of all, and secondly, Apple is not just rejecting features, they are rejecting political cartoons and pornography from the apps store. People keep saying that HTML is the answer to that, but the apps store simply out-competes the web and HTML solutions are at an inherent disadvantage.
"Choosing one that has a unified and controlled app distribution system because it offers an excellent end user experience is definitely not participating in any kind of slippery slope scenario."
Yes, it is, considering that Apple already uses its control to do more than maintain quality.
"The appropriate way to complain in this scenario is to buy some other phone. Or, if you're a developer, develop for a platform provided by a company whose policies you prefer."
Except that the majority of people are not aware of Apple's behavior or the way that Apple is censoring these devices, and the minority who is aware will not make much a difference. The appropriate thing to do is to inform as many people as possible of the reality of the iProducts.
Palm trees and 8
With the iPhone about to get multitasking and more expanded bluetooth support, I'm finally getting close to feature parity with my old N95, a phone that's over 2.5 years old. Not because the hardware was lagging, but because of choices made in software development.
Mind you, I have an iPhone, it's got a great interface and has some interesting software. But it's very restricted, limited, it's tied to iTunes, and in the end I probably should have gone for an Android phone to get full bang-for-buck.
(seriously, three years with a full bluetooth chipset and only *now* they're adding bluetooth keyboard support? It's probably not going to be fully controllable using just the keyboard either, like my N95 was... We'll see.)
the iPhone isn't very good as a cell phone, either
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
So, according to the OP's logic, the justification for the iOS 4 being locked down on the iPad and iPod Touch is that it also runs on a cell phone? Are you serious?
This space for rent.
(EG. Despite it supporting bluetooth data transfer, you *may* get blocked from copying over your own ringtone files from a computer -- or maybe you're disallowed from moving over your contact info as vcard files, or ??)
Dude! Just to let you know, you're not alone. I too owned a Motorola E815 as offered by Verizon, and so did everyone I worked with.
Not only was I an expert at teardown and rebuild of the device (and god damn did those things love to snap off their antennas!) SEEM editing was second nature to me. It got to the point where everyone I knew, even casually, who owned that phone either had it repaired and rebuilt, or hacked through a SEEM edit by me to enable all those stupidly disabled features. To top it off, bluetooth OBEX was, among a couple of other things, the reason I bought that phone and to find out I couldn't do it when I got home with it supremely pissed me off. In total, from the moment I got the phone in front of my computer to make that discovery to about 6 hours later, I sat there scouring the web with a data cable connected to it and didn't get up (save bathroom trips) until I had a phone with working OBEX. And my [slightly] more juvenile self enjoyed that to the fullest, cutting ringtones from the songs I liked and applying them to different people. After all, why buy a song for 99 cents, then re-buy the 30 second clip which you listened to for free before buying the damn song anyway for another 99 cents. I digress.
It is THAT experience that so jaded me against the practices of US cell providers. And it's also that experience that made me so happy for Apple's ability to take AT&T to the cleaners as a device maker and be the side that wears the pants in that relationship. It's a single entitiy and a single phone that allowed innovation to happen in the cellular space in the way that device makers had been clamoring for for half a decade at that point but had been screwed by THEIR products and features being pimped at the whim of what the wireless providers deemed was fit for their own pocketbooks. And THAT is some Grade A Bullshit(TM).
Not to say that someone isn't screwing the capabilities of the iPhone for personal gain, but at the very least the ones doing the screwing are the ones that were visionary enough to create the damned thing in the first place. The ones that shattered the barriers and made a phone that broke the paradigm and ushered in the one that we know and love today. Finally, I say with that, much like my SEEM edit on my E815 made me happy, jailbreaking an iPhone makes me happy enough. I'm willing to take the good with the bad, though I'll admit that while it's an okay solution for me, the market as a whole could use something better.
It's up to Google and Microsoft now. Shatter the paradigm again. Do to the mobile OS what Apple has done to the mobile device. Make us happy to part with our dollars.
Boot Windows, Linux, and ESX over the network for free.
None of what you said requires the draconian lockdown. Just hide a button deep down in the menus somewhere to enable apps to be installed bypassing the app store. The App store can still be in place and the benefits you list will still be there.
But nah, Apple wants the forced 30% cut and the control so they won't. And they still will have lots of otherwise smart people defending it's every move.
This space for rent.
i thought the android was totally open. doesn't that mean an app doesn't have to be had solely from the 'official store' but from wherever the developer wants? that would be a world of difference, right?
...
Yes. $500. Including a monitor.
Dude, chill out, and you're full of it.
The Mac Mini starts at $699 and doesn't even come with a Cinema Display. Obviously the GP knows what he was talking about!
Boot Windows, Linux, and ESX over the network for free.
Look, here's the deal: if Apple wants to control the platform and the approve all the apps, and use nebulous/arbitrary criteria to reject apps for any length of time even against the express wishes of its users, then they open themselves up to being accused of being fascist control freaks worse than Microsoft. THEY open THEMSELVES up to that accusation, for it otherwise would hold no water. Got it?
Best Buy is such a fascist organization. I went there the other day and insisted that the store manager place my software on their shelf, and he said no! And he didn't even quote me a section from the Best Buy Corporate Handbook! I call for a full boycott of Best Buy.
But if you buy a PC from BestBuy, you can buy Adobe Photoshop for it from Fry's without paying 30% of the price to BestBuy and it's approval.
This space for rent.
Best Buy is such a fascist organization. I went there the other day and insisted that the store manager place my software on their shelf, and he said no! And he didn't even quote me a section from the Best Buy Corporate Handbook! I call for a full boycott of Best Buy.
But if you buy a PC from BestBuy, you can buy Adobe Photoshop for it from Fry's without paying 30% of the price to BestBuy and it's approval.
But you're Adobe, you can't force either Best Buy or Fry's to carry Photoshop if they don't want to. You don't own the distribution system, simply because you create content.
I am beginning to think that you might not actually be a Apple fanboy but a cunning troll. I can't imagine someone being really this stupid.
And it's stupid to imagine technical possibility why again...
I think you forgot what has driven the industry forward. Hint: It wasn't hatred. Or thinking things had to stay the same as they were just because change was bad.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
"I am getting sick of the game console comparisons. "
Maybe it's because people are gaming more on their iDevice than their consoles? I have a Wii and PS3 and play more games on my iPhone than either of those devices, mostly because it's mobility (always with me) and the huge abundance of 99 cent games.
my karma will be here long after I'm gone
Apple takes 30% of the purchase price. This represents a 43% premium you pay for iPhone/iPad apps.
Imagine a $10 product, $3 goes to Apple, $7 goes to the developer. That's 30%, right? Nope, without Apple being in the picture, the developer would make the same profit by selling the app at $7. But they have to sell it for $3 more to make the same money. $3 is 42.9% of $7.
App Store Purchases carry a 43% markup Q.E.D.
"And everyone else was a HELL of a lot worse before they came along"
How so? Plenty of phones before the iPhone allowed you to install apps without the approval of the manufacturer or provider.
The difference is that most of Slashdot used to be united against MS but now it has basically split into two camps, Apple fans and FOSS fans.
Your split is inaccurate. There are plenty of people that both support FOSS software and also the Apple platforms, which can deliver FOSS software just fine even though the platform itself is proprietary. There's also a ton of FOSS libraries around iPhone development.
The real split is that, for whatever reason, some otherwise rational people have gone off the deep end and hate anything from Apple, no matter what. Despite otherwise being technically inclined, they refuse to update the understanding of what Apple platforms support, and even worse drop the ability to think that alternate devices from what they use can also be useful to people.
And the Apple fans have a lot of mod points and use them indiscriminately in the discussions both to mod up positive comments about Apple and to mod down any criticisms(legit or not) about Apple. This shows in every Apple story.
And the Apple Haters do not? I get modded "troll" and worse, for what are simply informative posts. If you check this very thread you can see a ton of anti-Apple comments modded up. Obviously there are people wielding mod points indiscriminately on both sides.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
It's just semantics. In Jobs' D8 interview he likened PCs to trucks and iPads to cars. I think this has been a greatly misunderstood analogy. To me, it means the people that do serious work will have PC. Developers, Network Admins, Graphic Artists, Publishers, these people will still use computers. Cars are for the everyday person. E-mail, Internet, occasional Word Processing, Personal Finance, Calendaring, all work great on the iPad.
The iPad and iPhone will not replace "real" computers. They will impede the growth of computers, not because they are better, but because most people do not NEED a computer. iPads are not computers, but they are what 60-70% of the population uses a computer for, plus a little more like ebooks and some nifty apps we never knew we needed.
Are PS3s replacing or being predicted to replace laptops or desktops?
This space for rent.
Err, the example of game consoles is being given as a comparison to justify the locking down of the iDevices. Lots of people play games on PCs as well, that doesn't mean locking down PCs can be justified.
This space for rent.
So you restated what I said with roughly the same point. You don't need GPS. It isn't mandatory. It is a significant advancement over other cars with no GPS. The rusty pinto comment is to illustrate how whiney it is to complain that you didn't get *EVERYTHING* you wanted out of a device that was considerably more advanced than the previously available devices. Welcome to reality, you don't get everything you want just by throwing a tantrum about the people that build stuff. If you want it different, you go out and build it. Use your cash to build the next iPhone killer rather than whining that the current iPhone isn't everything you want. Pretty simple. Hell, what really amuses me is that the iPhone could cause the major carriers to really compete on plan options if they break the exclusive dealing crap. At which point all of the howling about how evil Apple is would actually benefit AT&T a great deal. I don't know about you, but I will take Apples "draconian" behavior over AT&Ts actually pretty draconian behavior. Wiretaps for freedom baby!
The only change I can believe in is what I find in my couch cushions.
But if you're Adobe, you can sell Photoshop to BestBuy and Fry's customers at Walmart, or Target or on the Internet. There is no one choking the distribution system or monopolizing it like Apple is.
This space for rent.
So, because people want 100% control over a device they own(sorry, but Apple product-owners do own the devices and copies of software under their control), these people are "trolls"? Sure, the mobile line of Apple products(iPhone, iPod, iPad, etc) have a lot of good features and they all have decent "flexibility", but it does not give a company the right to artificially limit the control their customers have over the devices they(the customers) own. You need to remember that things only change when people demand for change to occur, then fight for it(it is how the United States came into existence).
You say that you were not interested in "drinking the kool-aid", but your comment sounds like one of the "magical" commercials that Apple likes to run for its products. To me, it seems like you are still drinking the kool-aid and you are just calling it something else.
Let's see, in the US specifically the carriers typically disabled certain functionality on phones, like syncing with a computer, in order to force you to send pics over the network and to charge you for them. An awesome user interface that no one had before but everyone wanted to emulate since. Apps that could be installed, but they were seriously over priced and/or would expire after a period of time.
The iPhone, like it or not, has had a huge impact in the mobile market. It has definitely improved things here in the US and has helped break the carriers and some (not all) of their horrible business practices that were crippling the user experience.
But if you're Adobe, you can sell Photoshop to BestBuy and Fry's customers at Walmart, or Target or on the Internet. There is no one choking the distribution system or monopolizing it like Apple is.
... and Walmart and Target don't have to put your product on their shelf either. Maybe you misunderstand my point: if you do not own the distribution system, you don't get to whine about the distribution system not including your content. You don't get to put your home videos on ABC, you don't get to put your blog posts on the front page of the New York Times, and you don't get to have your Kirk-Picard slashfic read on NPR.
If you don't like it, start your own distribution system, such as the ad hoc distribution system for your iPhone customers. But don't call someone a fascist for not giving you free bandwidth, storage and time.
I agree with you 100%. As a software developer I love it that Apple has popularized the slate format computer. More computers being sold equals more opportunities for me as a developer. I don't particularly like Apple's policies and that's why I'm bullish on Android and WebOS tablets.
I've quite shocked that Microsoft is having so much trouble in this space. They were almost there with pen computing but for some reason were never able to make the jump to touch computing.
In a recent blog entry, Russel Beattie did a pretty good job of explaining why WIMP (windows, icons, mouse, and pointer) doesn't work on a tablet.
Woot! My full tower case PC, mixing desk and desktop montors are now a cell phone! Might skip taking it to work though, since the thing weighs about 50kgs thanks to the subwoofer.
I also skip taking my corded phones to work as well, since they are pretty large and like your PC have no cell connection.
But I can still call from my corded phone even though I can't take it with me. And you can still skype from your desktop. Or use some other form of VOIP.
Welcome to 2010, where the phone is not a plastic object built solely by AT&T. This is the future, not your antiquated notion that a phone has to be only a phone to be a phone.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I can't wait to see what the results of this move are, I just recently read an article discussing how the new iphone may overtake the blackberry as the government issued phone, Here's a link to that article www.tinyurl.com/iphonevblackberry Im not surprised the ipad won't be running iOS 4 right away but we'll see what's to come of that
Yes, but then the developer has to set up their own store, pay for bandwidth, pay credit card processing fees, and spend significantly more on advertising since they are not in a centralized store and are less likely to be randomly stumbled across.
So the developer would not be able to sell their $10 app on their own for $7 and make the same amount of money.
I've been running 4.0 since beta1 came out on my personal handheld as well as my dev handsets, I've never had battery issues post beta1. It's fine in the GM/final. There are other issues (performance and other concerns I have) but battery life? 3 hours? Troll harder.
Ogre Wedding Planners llc.
According to the twisted logic of your fellow fanboys...
And then you proceed to quote me.
But you never addressed my original post (beyond "giving up"), which was in fact correct. I can make and receive calls now from any device with a data connection (and really have been able to for some time. How is that not a phone?
It seems like the only twisting going on here is you, trying to bend the argument so that you are still in any way correct. But the facts of what is POSSIBLE simply do not support the assertion you are making. You are the one who is coming off as rather bent out of shape and rather a luddite to boot... Mentioning Skype or VOIP to you seems to be like trying to describe a CNC application to an Amish woodworker.
If I have a device I use as a phone, why does the form factor matter? Are you saying a Mickey Mouse phone was never a phone because of the shape and size? Your arguments just get more absurd the more you spend time thinking about the implications of what you are saying.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
You misunderstand my point. BestBuy is not the only place to buy/sell software like Photoshop. But the App store is the only venue to legitimately sell software for the iDevices. That is the difference between Best Buy and the Apple App Store.
It's not about Apple refusing to distribute it. It's about Apple preventing anyone else from distributing it on their own. It's as if I bought a Dell PC and every app I installed had to be pre-approved by and sold through Dell. Of course the solution is to not buy an iPhone.
You misunderstand my point. BestBuy is not the only place to buy/sell software like Photoshop. But the App store is the only venue to legitimately sell software for the iDevices.
I understand that you don't know about the ad hoc, non-App store distribution system. Is that what you meant?
iPads are not computers, but they are what 60-70% of the population uses a computer for, plus a little more like ebooks and some nifty apps we never knew we needed.
I agree, but the fact that they are not computers DOES NOT justify the lockdown that Apple places on them. And comparisons to game consoles are off-base. That was the point of my post.
Apple graciously allows you to distribute your app to 100 people. Of course you still pay $99/year for the privilege.
In spite of your post being significantly trollish, I'll actually reply.
It's called a standard. Maybe you've heard of it at some point in your life. If we apply your logic, then hey, if I want to use the Mayan calendar in my correspondence, then that's perfectly valid and okay, right? Come to think of it, why are we so locked into this whole IP addressing thing where some people use four octets and a few zany forward-thinkers use 128-bit addresses? I want my IP addresses to be three base-seven numbers between 4 and 61 (that's 43 in decimal), followed by six base 10 numbers with arbitrary precision, but that must be odd.
Unlike text, where people around the world use different glyphs to represent the sounds they make (some of which are unique to their particular language or dialect), pretty much everyone everywhere except maybe the Bushmen of the Kalahari* uses the exact same calendar and time intervals. Why would all of those people need dozens of ways to express the exact same information? Worse, some ways can be ambiguous, completely dependent on which system you're using. Is 6/2 June second, or is it February 6? Or take a date like 12/4/10. Is it:
If you come up with some new system that has only ten month or that divides the day into different time increments, then by all means, come up with whatever standard you want for the semantic representation of it. When throngs of people then proceed to ignore you and use their own methods that all conflict with each other, maybe then you'll understand that that's a pretty stupid way of doing things.
*Really, I'm not sure about the Bushmen. For all I know, they use the same calendar everyone else does, too. They're actually pretty smart and resourceful.
fascist control freaks worse than Microsoft.
I thought I would never hear that something is worse that Microsoft. Sadly, I agree.
The issue is not that the terms are necessarily bad. But there might be stores that offer 80%-20%. Or even 71%. Or treat the developers with respect. But Apple wants to be the ONLY store. There lies the issue.
This space for rent.
Use your cash to build the next iPhone killer rather than whining that the current iPhone isn't everything you want. Pretty simple.
Build your own Slashdot if you don't like my 'whining'. And ban me from it. ;)
Pretty simple.
This space for rent.
There's no way with services like Amazon EC2 that online distribution costs (including credit card fees) come anywhere close to this.
Maybe marketing would. Depending on the sales volume and how it was advertised, it could either be much more or much less than $3. For most large developers, it would be much less, and for most small developers, it would be much more.
Unfortunately there's no choice no matter whether you have a high cost niche product which markets itself or a small cost broadly popular product which needs to be heard above the noise. You pay a minimum of 43% markup, and it can only go up from there.
There is no chance for anyone else to compete in this space because Apple will not allow it.
There are even less bad options out there though. With Windows Mobile and especially Android phones you can do pretty much anything you want. Comparing the iPhone to even more locked down phones is like comparing Mussolini to Hitler rather than simply comparing him to the full range of world leaders. Almost anyone is going to look good when compared with Hitler.
which is totally what she said
But you miss the point of the original poster and you seem to imply that since the iPad can be used as a phone, it okay to lock it down.
I think there is a melding of these two ideas though. The poster was partially right that it's OK to lock it down "because it is a phone". Where I was going is that phones and computers are merging, that there is not really as much of a distinction. So what that means for smartphone users is that now they are really carrying a computer, but they expect (and rightfully so) that it have the stability of the old-world phones they are used to. And that is where the locking down is justified as an approach, because it does lead to greater stability and battery life and security.
Now Android has taken a different path, letting users do anything but building as stable a base as possible to give users a device that is initially that stable, but that user can more easily screw up over time by installing some thing. That's also perfectly valid, it's just an approach that comes more from the computer side of things than the phone side... basically now at this point over the next few years we'll see what people really prefer. Are they wanting to jump off the computer world and into something more controlled? Or do they want to escape the locked down world of phones into a fully configurable future? I think it's great that we have strong players backing each approach, so we can really see what people generally prefer (or as much as is possible given the variables real life offers).
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Except, of course, the iPhone and iPad, for which developers are barred from distributed GPL software or using GPL libraries.
Through the app store.
You forgot that any developer can compile and run anything they like, such as open source tethering software.
But also, I did say FOSS - which encompasses many other licenses, it's true that most iPhone libraries are BSD (or LPGL).
That's still FOSS - on the iPhone and iPad. In a TON of shipping apps. It's just one license that is excluded.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
How about "wireless sync"? Can someone tell me why a wireless device has to be plugged in to sync a damn MP3 file? I have no less than 6 apps on my iPhone that do some form of wireless sync with my PC, but the core phone features dont' support it. I'm sure we know the reason: "Steve doesn't like it", but what I want to know is WHY??
How DARE you question Steve? You're allowed to use the device as Apple/Steve sees fit. Don't like it? Get an Android or BlackBerry on a better carrier.
"A plan fiendishly clever in its intricacies"- Homer Simpson
If by "flexibility" you mean "you may buy the apps we approve, or the apps we approve, and only from our store so we get a cut" then yeah Apple's phones are just spiffy. So why was Google Voice blocked for such a long time again -- was that because of popular demand by the users? Why is it so hard to get a good solid backed-by-facts explanation for why a particular app is rejected from the App Store again (i.e., quote the exact section of the ToS or similar that it violates)? Nothing fascist to see here, please move along.
Couple points here:
"You can only buy the stuff we approve" has been around for decades - anyone who owns a video game console is used to that setup.
Any developer who complains about their app not being approved didn't read the contract - I signed up as a developer (not the least reason is that I can now install whatever the heck I want on my machines), and the contract is perfectly clear on the point: Apple decides if you get into the app store, and they can reject you for any (or no) reason whatsoever. It's astoundingly clear on that.
Has anyone found the difference between accounts and mailboxes?
To me, they appear to be the exact same. Why duplicate the same information?
how well does multitasking work on the jailbroken 2/3g models?
Bring back the old version of slashdot.
I question why people target Apple specifically when prior to the iPhone, many phones capable of running third-party software had equal or worse restrictions.
And it looks like walled gardens are the future. Windows Phone 7, by all accounts, will work similarly. Android is open, but has a pretty small market share and frankly isn't nearly as user-friendly as the iPhone.
You might want to think twice about installing iOS4 on your iPhone 3G. It's not the fastest device anymore. One gentleman seems to have installed the development version on his 3G and says "not worth it": http://www.macgasm.net/2010/06/17/week-ios4-3g-phone-worth/
The summary is basically that it's a lot slower than 3.1.3.
I'm definitely going to wait a week or two and see what the results are.
8 of 13 people found this answer helpful. Did you?
I apologize for being an ass, I guess I woke up on the wrong side of the bed. I know its the internet and you don't have to apologize, but I am sorry.
Cool art gallery, if you're into that sort of thing.
I was able to get the update at about 13:30 EDT. The download took about a minute and the upgrade process took about an hour. It appears to do a full backup, wiping and reloading all data on the phone. I have a 16G model with about 11G in use. YMMV. Everything came back to life on completion. About the only minor nuisance was all apps using location services prompted again to allow it.
I went directly to configure the tethering feature and had to change to one of the new data plans. AT&T hasn't added the tethering package to the options list in the account management portal. So I had to call 611 to talk to a live person. About 30 seconds of options and I was connected to an agent that quickly made the requested changes. Once I've had a chance to set it up I'll probably do a follow up post.
Wrong. Android came out only after Apple announced the SDK and App Store for the iPhone.
And the vast, vast majority of the cellphone market is still dumbphones. You know, the ones you get for free with a contract?
Can you imagine not being allowed to watch Fox or MSNBC ?
The last time I checked, I can't get Fox News or MSNBC without some sort of cable package. (I have no idea if either is in the minimum cable package that comes with my Cable Internet). I can't get a package with just the specific channels I want (e.g. CSPAN and a couple movie channels). So TV is not really the best example of this.
I put the 't' in electrical engineering.
No worries, it happens :-)
Living With a Nerd
Already on. Seems to run as well as before, plus I have iBooks and Folders. Not surprised a development version was slow though.
If Apple really was interested in stability, it'd a lot easier to swallow, but every time they update their licensing they put the lie to that sentiment.
In what way? Why can you not have a primary goal of stability while ALSO supporting a number of secondary goals?
And the stability I am talking about is SYSTEM stability, not app stability. Apple likes to ship apps that at least do not crash - beyond that, the underlying system remains stable and performant for the user no matter what madness the app might suddenly exhibit, because of the way the system is designed.
Which is part of the danger, since its not just apps that Apple censors (at random)
Apple does not censor (since Apple cannot control other publishing paths, Apple is only a distributor), and as I said the rejection of applications is not random, not even close to random.
When the public is unaware that they're being censored
How would they be unaware? There have been numerous stories about rejections. It's not like Apple keeps those things quiet, nor can they.
And anyone can load a PDF or ePub file into iBooks so sell it your own damn self if Apple is not willing to distribute it for you.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I installed it on my ipod touch Latest 32 gig version.
The folders work as expected except there are no folders within folders and only 9(? maybe 6--i forgot) icons in a folder.
Tried the multi-tasking was going to talk to buddy on skype and play a game... No dice. The app you leave closes out. The multi-tasking seems to be a "list" of previously launched apps. Bah.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
"First things first -- but not necessarily in that order"
-- The Doctor, "Doctor
Game consoles are not computers = iPads are not computers.
You want openness. Openness = Computers.
Now yes that is simplified and it doesn't HAVE to be true. It has historically been true though. The closed systems, ie consoles, have always outsold the open ones. Why? Consumers want a device that works. When I say iPads work for 60-70% of the population, that is not 60-70% of the population including those that don't buy computers. Openness brings a certain level of confusion. One thing Apple controls through the App store is look and feel and usability. You as an IT Pro want openness and don't mind rough edges or modifying a config file. But this is a turn off to the family down the block. Apple is selling cars. If a Prius can't haul your 5 kids and boat up to the lake, buy a truck, don't yell at Toyota that the Prius is not able to tow a boat.
I am getting sick of the game console comparisons. People are NOT replacing real computers with gaming consoles, but there's an increasing push(especially by Apple fanboys) that the iDevices are the future of computing.
Actually, I am. Between my PS3 and my iPhone I hardly use my desktop anymore. However, it remains to be seen if this trend survives the release of Diablo III.
If it wasn't for "major corporations", you wouldn't have a cellphone at all. Not of any description.
That's a good point too. Mine was more about not being allowed to watch those channels under any circumstances though, no matter whether you're willing to pay or not.
The Cloud - because you don't care if your apps and data are up in the air.
Hmmm; that's a benefit of which I had not thought. Thanks.
Great minds think alike; fools seldom differ.
obligatory xkcd
I agree that most people don't care.I don't agree that that's a good thing in any way whatsoever, because sooner later this stuff does affect everyone negatively, and then it's too late.
Turns out that "I told you so, but nobody listened" really isn't that satisfying to say.
All my Switches/Routers run at least 12.1 or higher, why would i downgrade them.
Seriously though, how long until cisco looks to get another trademark settlement out of Apple?
"In the fall". (at least, that's what Jobs said at the OS 4.0 announcement in April)
More to the point, 3.2 was for iPad-only. 4.0 is initially just for iPhone/iPod Touch (basically the same device), and 4.1 (that will likely be the version number) will be a unified release supporting all iOS devices and adding some additional functionality. I'm anticipating basic printing support and some form of access to remote/server files as the major additions.
It will probably be out in the October timeframe in time for the fall generation of iPod devices.
-- Josh Turiel
"2. Do not eat iPod Shuffle."
Are you telling us to think...different?
I'm against picketing but I don't know how to show it.
If you're complaining about soft handcuffs, you have the wrong girlfriend.
Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
I think people are going on 'cause it feels sooo good to pick sides and bicker. Nothing new. What gripes me is the whole fanboy issue. YES, we get it; each side of this "issue" has a few major douche-bags that froth, scream and whine, then they scream and whine that the others are screaming and whining louder. Just whip it out and compare sizes already. Jesus, I'm sure most of the people that read slashdot are soooo glad this gets dredged up every day, so they can hear you guys bitch and moan about who's "right" and who's "wrong". Whatever happened to respecting someone's differing opinion, having an INTELLIGENT conversation about it (if you're so moved) and moving on with your day? *I know this comment won't amount to much, I swear I've read this same gist over and over and over throughout the years.
I wish I had mod points to give you. Apple comes along and blows open the completely evil and locked-down ecosystem that was the cell phone ecosystem and two years later they are too closed - despite producing a hugely popular product and slowly relaxing control where and when it makes sense to do so in the context of a smooth user experience.
"The world is a construct of forceful imagination. Those who don't know walk around in the reailties of those who do"
Makes sense in a certain way, but can you submit your own TV station to a cable provider for free? If anything, the problem is that it's TOO similar to cable TV!
I put the 't' in electrical engineering.
Can you name any other cell phones previous to the iPhone that let you buy applications for them? Were they open? Could you buy them from just anywhere? In Japan, for example, cell phone applications were available for sale in 2002, when I first got here. They usually cost the equivalent of $3 USD per copy, and better still, often charged you a monthly fee to keep using them. Needless to say, the applications were only available from the cell phone provider's network. There was no backup of the software, either; if your phone was damaged or lost, you were screwed. Software was also available on a model-by-model basis, and if your model was more than a year old, was likely not available at all. They later introduced "PC Web" browsing, which allowed you to see actual web pages on a screen half the size of the iPhone screen. Each use of the browser cost $3, with additional charges assessed based on data transfer amounts. You could, of course, buy their unlimited data plan, which would tack an additional $50 onto your cell phone bill (usually on top of $50 base charges, which didn't include any kind of "free minute" allowance). Transferring personal files, such as addresses, photos, music, or movies to the cell phones was excruciating at best, if not impossible. You had to buy third-party software that gave you only minimal access to files, and usually only for download, not upload. The only things I miss from my Japanese cell phone are the QR code reader and the IR data transfer. Oh, and the battery life, of course. You can hate on Apple for blocking stuff like Google Voice, but keep in mind that such things may not be completely frivolous, or even completely within Apple's control. Apple currently doesn't allow any VoIP application that runs over 3G, and that's because their cell phone network partners won't allow it, as it would potentially supersede their service and eat into their profits. Skype has just now started offering their service over 3G, but they are also going to start charging for it by the end of the summer. One can assume that they've worked out a profit-sharing deal with the providers to appease their fears. What has Apple done specifically that has been detrimental to you? Are you a developer who had your application rejected out of hand, after you spent six months sweating over the code? Is everyone who disagrees with your opinion over Apple automatically a fanboy, just because they don't hate them as much as you do?
"Give a man fire, and he'll be warm for a day; set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life
this camel's back. The idea that the OS on my iPhone will serve me advertisements without my consent and without my ability to block them is making me rethink whether I want this thing in my life. I paid for the phone, I pay every month for the data service, and the advertisers are going to use my paid-for device and contract to generate revenue, with nothing coming my way? And I'll incur the costs of distraction and time wasted viewing those pushed ads? Having an iPhone is convenient, fun, and cool....and I can have just as great a life without one. And if it comes down to it, I can migrate to Linux from the Mac OS I've used since 1984.
... on my G1?
No? good.
Be seeing you...
They've made it worse for the mobile market, by making it easier for developers to sell their wares, and for consumers to purchase them?
Yes. Market-controlling monopolies are only beneficial to anyone except themselves in short term.
And the other 80% of the cellphone market that uses subscription crapware I can only get through the telco is different how?
I dunno why it is always whips-n-chains for consumers in US; in my home country, people have been buying shrink-wrapped (literally) software for their WinMo and Symbian phones, and installing it freely pretty much for as long as those phones have been around (2003? IIRC).
I understand that you don't know about the ad hoc, non-App store distribution system.
There is no legal non-AppStore distribution system for iPhone, at least in US (depending on how ACTA goes, may be more soon).
Why? Today Apple will release iOS4. Tonight I will have it on my iPhone 3G. Why is 30 days not a long time to wait?
Was it 30 days between iOS4 and the previous release?
Because if it's not, then your jab is quite pointless.
For the record, Android 2.1 was out this January...
I understand that you don't know about the ad hoc, non-App store distribution system.
There is no legal non-AppStore distribution system for iPhone, at least in US (depending on how ACTA goes, may be more soon).
That's probably news to Apple and their legal, non-AppStore ad hoc distribution system.
Seriously, dude. I called it the "ad hoc distribution system". You could have Googled the "ad hoc distribution system" and not appeared so stupid. But instead, you chose to trumpet your wide-eyed ignorance in public for posterity. How embarrassing is that?
None of what you said requires the draconian lockdown.
Then why didn't Palm do it? Where was Microsoft providing this? Where was Linus and Red Hat?
But nah, Apple wants the forced 30% cut and the control so they won't. And they still will have lots of otherwise smart people defending it's every move.
Engineers at Apple should work for free?
Apple makes their tools and their phones work great for developers and users. They do this ... in order to get the 30% cut. The "control" is the key that locks the vending machine -- if you could just open it up and take all the contents without paying, no one would ever install vending machines.
If you don't want to pay the 30% cut, then don't charge money for your app. Problem solved.
I'm sorry, but "up to 100 users" is not something that can be seriously considered as a distribution system in the context of this discussion.
Either I'm stupid or you are. Development time has ZERO effect on installation of a RELEASED product. Time to market has ZERO effect on a installation of a RELEASED product. If a product is released, it can be installed, right? Oh, you mean you reject Apple's walled garden but accept Verizon's, T-Mobile's, and Sprint's... If Apple released 4.1 tomorrow, it would be installed on my phone hours later. You know this to be the fact, but I am sorry, Android is superior and more open in every way. I bow in awe of your great Android phone.
Either I'm stupid or you are. Development time has ZERO effect on installation of a RELEASED product. ... If Apple released 4.1 tomorrow, it would be installed on my phone hours later.
You seem to be ascribing some magical properties to a release announcement. In practice, what happens is that Apple controls both software and hardware platform, so for them a "release" means "rolling out on actual phones". An Android release is a release of a reference platform. As far as end users are concerned, 2.2 is not released yet.
However, the matter of fact is that Android users get new releases more often than iPhone users (though that depends on the specific Android phone in question).
Oh, you mean you reject Apple's walled garden but accept Verizon's, T-Mobile's, and Sprint's
1) I'm not in US (hint: most of the world isn't). That said, judging from what I know about them, US mobile operators can go fuck themselves alongside Apple.
2) I own a Nexus One, so I don't have to accept anything. I could have 2.2 running on it today if I cared.
Is the software you're trying to sell only written to work on the Super BBPC 9000, which only Best Buy sells? Then maybe you have an issue. If not, well, not so much.
When Microsoft releases a new version of Windows, I can install it on a Dell, HP, Sony, Compaq, eMachine, and any other white box I want. If it can't be loaded, it's not a released operating system. That the first I've heard Android is merely a reference platform. And I was almost convinced there is no fragmentation in Android.
So let me get this straight:
First, waiting 30 days and still having no install option for an OS is not a symptom of a controlled or closed system.
Debunked
Second it was Android gets updated more often which justifies the delay.
Debunked
Third it was that Android is not actually an OS but a reference platform.
Are you going to completely change the topic again? Or maybe we can agree that ALL cell phones have limitations and strings attached. Apple's are no worse than anyone others.
When Microsoft releases a new version of Windows, I can install it on a Dell, HP, Sony, Compaq, eMachine, and any other white box I want. If it can't be loaded, it's not a released operating system.
It can be loaded - if you're willing to roll out your own drivers etc. Just as Windows needs driver support from actual hardware manufacturers to run on your PC. In fact, it's less of a problem with Android.
By the way, Windows is actually very similar to Android in that. When it is released, the earliest release date is only available to OEMs (and typically also to MSDN/TechNet subscribers) - your average user can't buy the box in the store for another month or two. That time is spent to prepare machines preloaded with the OS, to polish drivers, etc.
Similarly, a new Android release is readily usable by OEMs and developers. Users, not so much. Though there are a lot of people around running pre-release Android 2.2 already.
First, waiting 30 days and still having no install option for an OS is not a symptom of a controlled or closed system. Debunked.
It's not controlled. The source code is out there, and so are the images. You can flash it if you want.
What in your imagination made you believe that you've debunked it, I've no idea. You haven't even touched on the topic.
Second it was Android gets updated more often which justifies the delay.
Debunked
See above.
Third it was that Android is not actually an OS but a reference platform. Are you going to completely change the topic again?
I'm answering your questions. If this results in change of topic, you should only blame yourself for asking incoherent things.
Or maybe we can agree that ALL cell phones have limitations and strings attached.
Well, duh. We can also agree that sky is blue - unless you live in London.
Apple's are no worse than anyone others.
Well, no. They are objectively much more locked down - more so than any other smartphone on the market to date - which is one hell of a string.
That would be the one formerly called i5/OS: (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_i)?
you must be kidding, i just love it, iOS4 is clearly quicker, and handles apps better, at least on an iPhone 3GS. Couple the OS with the twice as powerful iPhone 4, the only thing I care about is when excatly will the iphone4 be available, I already have a iFunia iPhone 4 Video Converter which was recommended by my friends and says to be a charming apps. hmm, My special iphone4 is gonna love it :)
Oh, wonderful, "100+ improvements". So where is a guide which details them all? Is this a secret Apple attempt to curry favor with publishers by leaving it to online mags to detail it all? For the moment, it seems this is another case of "usability means not having to write manuals" - which is an illusion.
I'm disappointed, Apple can do better. On the plus side, I just came across something that suggests Apple now give Apps a way to back up their data too. That is *very* good, although it means I'll probably face weeks of App upgrades - almost making it MS compatible if it wasn't for the absence of reboots and crashes :-).
Insert
Against the warnings of years of disappointment, I started to upgrade my 3G earlier this evening (I'm in New Zealand). It is taking a very long time (and it doesn't seem to be waiting for downloads from Apple: it's in the backup and restore part). It crapped out after a couple of hours--no, call that three--with error messages, and I seem to have iOS 4, but none of my music and my non-Apple apps don't run. After powering off and restarting iTunes on my Mac (so this is not a Windows problem), it's now offering to do a restore, and I shall see what happens. But I seem not to be the only one.
DO NOT "UPGRADE" NOW, people. I have not had an experience like this since the days of Windows 9x. I'm sure it will get sorted in due course, but it ain't smooth now.
When it started to go wrong on my 3G, I searched for tips about the Error -34 I was getting. This doesn't seem to be the common one, but there are plenty of people having problems.
Buying Apple stuff is a compromise, like all such decisions. But what you expect is a very smooth user experience, so you don't have to worry about the technicalities. This ain't happening this time, for me or a lot of people. So, I'm sure at some time it will get all nice, but WAIT.
Yes, I know I should have known better, but I thought it had been out for about 24 hours, and the stories ought to have been appearing. Where were all the Apple haters, when they could have been useful?
The apps store out-competes the web?
When they came for the communists, I said "He's next door. Take him away. Goddam commies."
I'm sorry, but "up to 100 users" is not something that can be seriously considered as a distribution system in the context of this discussion.
I disagree. If you need to change the definition of "distribution" to support your argument, it really isn't much of an argument, is it?
I concur, this statement has not been true for me either. Of course, by all accounts means: I heard this somewhere, I think, but I could not possibly prove it.
If we were to take it literally, your post completely disproves his statement all on its own.
You seem to be misinformed about a lot of things in the cellular marketplace, especially in the US. See, in the US, we realize the stock anroid UI is absolutely horrid. The only stock android phone I know of is the nexus one. Every other one has their own custom ui placed on top of it, along with fixing some other shortcomings. So people with the nexus one can upgrade to android 2.2 now but the vast majority of users need to wait for their carrier to release a version that works with their custom pieces. Upgrading without it is either impossible( relatively) or means you have to downgrade back to the stock UI. Neither option is very good.
Also apple releases quite a few updates. Probably averaging an update every 8 weeks or so, but you are probably only aware of the large updates that the media covers. So having to wait "30 days" (which last I heard from the major carriers is more like 90-150!) is quite a bit. You'd be 2-4 updates behind compared to apple. Which brings me back to my original point in this thread: calling android the most updateable phone is a joke for the vast majority. It would be more appropriate to say with android, you are always waiting 90-150 days for stuff to "just work".
I don't agree that that's a good thing in any way whatsoever, because sooner later this stuff does affect everyone negatively, and then it's too late.
No, that's selection bias. *Occasionally* this stuff does affect everyone negatively, and it's tougher to get rid of. But for every case of Microsoft Office file formats, there's a thousand cases where Slashdotters cry fowl for something that really doesn't matter (Google collecting data from Chrome).
I will happily grant that in the cases that matter, it's easier to address issues before they become issues, but the way the tech community crows, it entirely dilutes our credibility and makes us seem like the elitist smug characature that comic paints.
It took nigh on 2 hrs to upgrade my ipod touch.
my Apple in-ear headphone volume control doesnt seem to work, although pause works.
Powerbook G4/1.5GHz 12", Toshiba Satellite 1135-S1554
If we were to take it literally, your post completely disproves his statement all on its own.
And that is why I never speak in terms of absolutes. :-)
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Hm. Fair enough, let's say that "distribution" as a word was more broad originally (but then I didn't start this thread). However, it is fairly clear that we're talking about ways of getting your application out there to users in the wild - not about deploying company-wide apps, for example.
Which brings me back to my original point in this thread: calling android the most updateable phone is a joke for the vast majority.
I wasn't the one who called it that, by the way. I was commenting on your reply, which brought in the entirely irrelevant "30 days" figure.
It would be more appropriate to say with android, you are always waiting 90-150 days for stuff to "just work".
Funny, it "just works" for myself as well as my wife here and now, and has been doing that for several months. What am I doing wrong? Not living in US, I guess. Must be some - ahem - kind of "distortion field" on the ground there that causes Android phones to malfunction...
Really? Dell supports some alternate OS under warranty even though the PC came with Windows? Gee, I'd not heard that before.
Jail-breaking the iPhone does NOT void the warranty, no different than putting Solaris on a Dell PC does its, but they DO refuse to support it until it is returned to factory specs (re-imaged and not unlocked). It's their right to support only their software, but NOTHING legally prevents you from jail-breaking the device (Though your carrier may have issue with that on a completely separate topic).
Attempts to circumvent Apple's OS are acceptable, so long as you do not SELL a product that does so for other people (as violating the device's DRM commercially is a violation of the DMCA, not Apple's warranty).
There is no contest in life for which the unprepared have the advantage.
iPhone2G won't have iOS4. But iOS4 fixes a lot of security holes.
iPhone2G is full of security holes. Apple won't fix those.
-- Rastignac was here.
What about all those people building supercomputers out of PS3s?
What about all those people building blade clusters out of iPhones? Really? No one? You're certain?
"Really? Dell supports some alternate OS under warranty even though the PC came with Windows? Gee, I'd not heard that before."
Then you are not paying attention. Let's see, I am running Fedora on my laptop even though it came with Windows, and guess what? Battery failed, I got a new one shipped to me the next day. Power adapter malfunctioned, and I had a new one shipped to me. No questions asked, no demand that I return it to the factory settings, nothing of that sort.
Palm trees and 8
yesterday's CELLPHONE != todays CELLPHONE
Stop living in the past.
And iPhone flexibility? Are you high? Its the LEAST flexible mobile platform. Dang, even the moronic Windows Mobile is more flexible.
Hush you! You must be a Fan Boi or something to dare say something that could be construed as non negative about Apple! What kind of irrational freak are you to not demand your cake and eat it too (despite that phrase not making any damned sense in the first place).
The only change I can believe in is what I find in my couch cushions.