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Study Says Your Personality Doesn't Change After 1st Grade
A study authored by Christopher Nave, a doctoral candidate at the University of California, says that our personalities stay pretty much the same from early childhood all the way through old age. From the article: "Using data from a 1960s study of approximately 2,400 ethnically diverse schoolchildren (grades 1 - 6) in Hawaii, researchers compared teacher personality ratings of the students with videotaped interviews of 144 of those individuals 40 years later. They examined four personality attributes - talkativeness (called verbal fluency), adaptability (cope well with new situations), impulsiveness and self-minimizing behavior (essentially being humble to the point of minimizing one's importance)." This must explain my overriding need to be first captain when we pick kickball teams at the office.
Yes and no. Yes, it does not change, in fact it does not change since your first day, simply because your DNA is already setup, and ready to go. And NO, it does change, if you are willing to learn.
took acid later in life?
The problem with slashdot is that most of its users were bullied and stuffed into lockers as kids!
Sincerely, an ISTJ.
Nature wins?
Better known as 318230.
I just had my 22-year High School Reunion and personality wise no one changed. Kind of sad.
I still pull girls hair and play with my wiener.
In 1st grade... I was quiet and geeky.
10 years later... I'm still quiet and geeky.
Damnit.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has it's limits" - Albert Einstein
...going around like that and showing results possibly pointing also to few early formative years, and surroundings back then.
One that hath name thou can not otter
And while it's killing you dead it will mess with your head
And it's the light in the dark that will guide you
It's the pages and pages of what you are like
In the giant book that's hidden inside you
DNA, you're in my heart
DNA, in fact you're in every part of my body
Each cell has a nucleus, each nucleus has chromosomes
And DNA, baby, that spells DNA
--Jonathan Coulton
Hawaii, yeah that's a pretty typical place, I'm sure it being studied in Hawaii won't skew the results.
It probably won't because the results sound right, but still, in the interest of science, I would have been more satisfied if they would have done the study in more than one area of the country/world.
I was also annoyed by my 1st grade teacher not teaching us the Cyrillic and Japanese alphabet as well as the Latin one.
she goes through at least three personality changes daily...
She ain't so shy when she's drunk! >:)
they obviously never met my wife.
(yeah, i kinda have to post this as anonymous coward)
Mommy says mine changed lots of times in 2nd grade!
I distinctly remember my Second Grade class and how much I preferred to be alone. We had group reading assignments but I didn't enjoy them, nor did I enjoy many other group activities. In Fifth grade I had a psychological assessment (for Gifted/Advanced students, but I was nothing special). The report, which I read many years later, said that I was quiet, quite shy, but had exceptional command of language, and so on. This was before autism was readily diagnosed, and I suspect that had I been tested 15 years later, I would be labeled mildy autistic.
In college, though I was involved in many groups, I still preferred to run off by myself. Fast forward 20 years and it's still the same. I'm involved in a sports team, clubs, etc., but it's almost as if I'm pretending. I do the team activities, give talks, am involved in film making (one of the most extroverted activities I can imagine). People tell me that I am a great speaker and they feel that I relate well, but even to this day I approach conversations in a methodical way: listen, confirm understanding, ask questions, repeat. This pretense is precisely because I enjoy being alone and I found it much easier to pretend to be well-adjusted and sociable than to just tell everyone how I really felt.
This research is ridiculous! I hate you guys!! I'm taking my ball and going home!!!
Why I can't put down Super Mario Bros 1. :|
Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Yes, because only Peered environments exist is this world. Only for doctoral thesis' right? Non-Peered has no bearing at all.
Also, I guess situational behavior is entirely predisposed as well.
I've been waiting for somebody to answer the age-old question:
Were you born an a-hole or did you work on it your whole life?
Not meant as an inflammatory remark at all ...
our personalities stay pretty: the same from early childhood all the way through old age
Either that, or the word "much".
As Stated. You Can't "Prove" Anything that way
I tend to agree as well, I've gone through massive swings in personality and interest over the years. It took a lot of work, but I am very different than I was back then. There probably is an element of truth in that inertia is likely set by that point. In that one tends to have to fight if one doesn't want to be type cast permanently. There's a lot of reinforcement that goes on and a lot of pressure not to rock the boat by changing.
Not every first grader has a $70,000 allowance.
OTOH, this may explain Charlie Sheen.
Have gnu, will travel.
Tell that to my ex-wife who went nuts after a gastric bypass operation. She could not be more different now. And I am NOT talking about weight. She barely acknowledges our kids now.
What's with all the idle stories lately? Slow news year?
Yes, it's sarcasm. Deal with it!
A priori I wouldn't have been sure that ratings by teachers would have correlated even with contemporary test results.
Highly skeptical here that "impulsiveness" stays constant with age.
Hasn't anyone besides me seen the 7-UP series?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Up_Series
https://app.box.com/WitthoftResume Code: https://github.com/cellocgw
It seems like the traits they chose attempt to cover a few different developmental lines. Perhaps this is just a semantic problem because there is much research to suggest some attributes of a person do change (see Ken Wilber, Spiral Dynamics, Jane Lovinger). The Spiral Dynamics map, for example states that along any given developmental line (cognitive, inter-personal, etc), while a person is at different levels on different lines, the development on a given line will always go through the same set of stages (a bold claim). The Spiral Dynamics studies suggest that 60% - 70 % of people are at 4th stage (order, structure, rules, duty) or below. According to Ken Wilber, it is not clear why some people stop developing at the second or third stage, and others keep moving up to 7th, 8th, and beyond. I guess the same dilemna is there with cognitive intelligence, why do some people have much more, and some much less. FWIW Slashdot seems to be somewhere between pathological Orange (stage 5, science, ambition) and Green (stage 6, pluralistic, care for those outside your class).
Well, considering you're one data point...
Shy and introverted since forever...but that's not even relevant.
Dan
The seven up series I remember watching as a child.
Nullius in verba
If late 40's is old age, I guess I better stop reading Slashdot and start watching CNN.
"I was an extreme introvert...I'm meeting plenty of random people all the time"
Wait? How does this disprove or prove your introversion and or change to extroversion?
People think not being around others is introversion...and it isn't. It is where do you get your energy from. An extrovert will find energy by being around people in ANY activity...not just ones that are hand chosen. An introvert generally has to be in their comfort zone before they can deal with others...they are able to gain more energy from their comfort zone that they may now expend on being around others.
I am a HUGE introvert...and I was a stage performing / touring musician for years. Being an introvert, it make aquiring people skills a little harder, but I made them...and when I did I was able to seem very outgoing under certain circumstances.
BTW -- the sports you list? Very introvert friendly...they are all about being able to focus on you internally, and less about the external.
That said, personality generally is set early on...but people can make a concerted effort (or even a situational one) and change with time. If you were in one of my grad courses, my profs would have used you as an example of not knowing what introversion and extroversion are...then again, unless you are in the field, I wouldn't expect someone to require in depth knowledge (and yeah, the standard def is pretty accurate for 90% of what people use it for).
The jesuit monks said centuries ago: "Give me the child till the age of seven and I will show you the man."
Frankly, this is also a great tip for dealing with people. If you want to understand someone better, try to imagine what they were like as a child. It almost always give you insight into how to deal with them as an adult.
Enjoy life! This is not a dress rehearsal.
I think this premise is demonstrably true. Ask anyone who's ever been to a high school reunion.
The point might be that - your behaviour at 40 is the same as your behaviour at 5. The in between stages are not considered - since people do change a lot through the years. But in the end, you mostly reach your behaviour back at 5.
rajmohan_h@yahoo.com
I second that. My brother was an extremely introvert kid, after his 16th or so he changed into a highly social extrovert. For me it was the other way around, I was an extrovert kid until my 12th or so and became much more introvert. It's maybe interesting to note that we both went through several personality changes after / during specific events, going to high school, university, moving abroad, getting married, having kids... I'm not sure if our perceived personality changes are real changes or it's just a shiny accumulation of self-awareness, social skills, confidence (and whatever else we pick up as we grow up) over a set of core traits
I agree with you. I had a similar swing of personality around 17-18. Until then I was very shy but when I moved to the university, I started to change quite significantly. Also I do not believe that I have the same personality than 3-4 years ago. I think that their sample is probably too small and I don't believe that teachers' rankings are such a good starting point (granted, you use the data you can get). My teachers were often utterly wrong about the kids around me and in particular about me. And I still play video games.
Work just provided the Strengths Finder 2.0 book to employees (don't know what the distribution was, certainly in our area of the company).
In the book it claims to have polled 10 million people with regards to their workplace and how they feel about work.
The main claim seems to be that you have your strengths and weaknesses when you're young and you keep them throughout your life. The book is proposing that we stop trying to strengthen our weaknesses but work in our strengths where we already do a great job.
I found the test (which took 30 minutes with timed (20 seconds per question) answers) to be pretty black or white. Several questions had to be answered neutral because neither had answers I could pick over the other.
The results were interesting but I didn't think they were as accurate as the Insights tests for example. There were items that were spot on, but there were others that I had to scratch my head over.
[John]
Shit better not happen!
You sir... are spot on.
You can still be an introvert and be physically active and do all sorts of outdoor activities. None of that means you changed anything about yourself. It just means you changed how you like to spend your time. Your personality != What you do in your free time.
Also worth noting is that by age 4, a room full of racially diverse kids will move toward kids that look like themselves.
In all seriousness, while certain propensities may remain throughout life to varying degrees, people change. That's common sense and all that really needs to be said to debunk this so-called study.
...four elements of your personality as a child strongly predict four elements of your personality as an adult (according to the study.) Headline is misleading.
Yes a couple people find themselves radically changed from when they were young and so obviously the study is totally bogus. Here's a thought, even if this study is true for 99% (well above what is scientifically needed for causation) of the population, the remaining 1% represents a huge number. By the way, introversion and physical activity levels was not a metric used in the study. The study doesn't mention anything about an introverted youth becoming an introverted adult... The attributes used were talkativeness, adaptability, impulsiveness and self-minimizing behavior. On the subject of impulsiveness:
Students rated as impulsive were inclined to speak loudly, display a wide range of interests and be talkative as adults. Less impulsive kids tended to be fearful or timid, kept others at a distance and expressed insecurity as adults.
The original article also doesn't state that it's impossible for a personality to change from a youth to an adult. It just states it's not very easy.
I think this study is totally bogus.
If you read the article more carefully, you'll notice things like 'children with such and such personality trait TENDED to exhibit this same trait as adults.' I'll bet that the paper itself waters this down even more. The reason is that clear-cut scenarios are very rare in fields such as psychology and in the sciences in general.
The problem is that journalists (or submitters to Slashdot, Reddit and so on) tend to prefer absolute statements, so what was originally a description of a tendency becomes a new law of nature.
And this is interpreted as evidence for personalities not changing over time. In essence, what they're saying is: Introverts are awkward, hate themselves, have low self-esteem and give up easily. And the ability to seek advice and be critical of oneself is seen as a negative trait. These researchers have no idea what it is like to be an introvert. It doesn't surprise me that they misinterpret our behavior. I get that all the time: people believe I'm timid and self-hating just because I don't advertise myself and am not afraid to seek advice.
Temperament doesn't change; that is, your basic innate tendency to react one way or another. However, personality is more than just temperament; it also includes emotional scars, life lessons, and the results of concerted effort to control your innate tendencies.
Basically, a naturally timid individual will never become a natural daredevil --though s/he might learn to fake it very well. In fact, sometimes people learn to fake it so well that they even manage to fool themselves, with the truth only revealed once the constant strain of impulse-denial and self-deception finally gets the better of them.
But it's also possible to truly moderate one's responses, given the right life experiences and lots of hard work. It's not a matter of becoming the opposite of what you are, more of learning to rein in your natural responses when possible, and to compensate for what can't be controlled. You may not ever become, say, more extroverted than Mr. Popularity, but you can still make strides toward the middle of the spectrum, sometimes enough to make your old self seem like a completely different person.
But what were you like in 1st grade? (Or earlier?)
I too went through an extremely introverted phase, but in retrospect, that was largely because my elementary-school experience was terrible and soul-crushing, so I went from being a fairly buoyant, outgoing kid to being rather awkward and alone. It took me all of late high school (and dropping out of college; wow, I'd do that differently were I to go through it again) to realize that this wasn't really me.
Interesting stuff. Gonna read about that.
I'd say I'm still the same person, but made a lot of experiences, learnt a lot about life, good and bad things, so that I maybe see things differently than before and act/present myself differently. I'd say I have grown. There is still the same child in me that comes out from time to time, but I'm also a lot more thoughful and feel to be more aware of the things that happen. I see things less black and white than before and am more careful with my judgement.
But deep inside still the same child, just with more knowledge and experience and different priorities and values maybe. I can also be quite impulsive, same as a child, just needs the right trigger I guess, since I'm usually rather calm and relaxed.
I'd say my personality didn't change much for some time, since life stayed pretty much the same, but then changes happened in my life and I made new experiences and learnt from them and now it feels like I am a bit wiser again, I'd say I have improved by my own standards, although there is still a long way to go. lol.
I ran across a report card from second grade--maybe 40 years ago. I was shocked when I read it and saw that it described my current character traits almost perfectly, down to a couple of flaws that have dogged me all my life. Of course, my sample size is one, so take with a grain of salt.
I had to google what first grade meant.. ages 6 an 7?
I was pretty much the same as I am now. Yup. 12-18 wasn't me, it was some kind of lunatic, from 19 on I started to notice the old personality and interests coming back.
the only difference is I was a bit spoiled, it wasn't that I didn't worry about other people; I did and still do worry about them all the time, but I just didn't notice I was hurting them. Also I was a massive attention seeker, still am, but repress it. I'll do things that I tell myself make me deserving of attention, and then not tell anyone about them.
For me and most of the people I still know from childhood.. this is basically right.. the way we act changes with what we learn, but our basic interests and temperaments are the same. Like okay I don't like the same music, but i still like music, I don't read the same books, but I still read books. I still think it's more important to be intelligent than.. errum... most other qualities.. and more important to be nice than any other quality.
I didn't suddenly get interested in make-up tutorials and knee-high boots. I still love animals, though I don't want to own a pet-shop where all the animals walk around freely and monkeys serve the customers anymore.
it's under construction
What about alzheimer's patients?
You are trying to assert your position through a false dichotomy.
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
$70,000 of drugs and hookers would change anyone's personality.
Pshhh... Anyone could do it for a fraction of the price. It just takes a $100 drug cocktail and a few days in your ideal programming environment... Warning: only attempt to personally verify this if you "do not mind" total ego collapse. Here it is: simultaneous dosage of Ibogaine, MDMA, Heroin, and Crack Cocaine.
YOU may be odd and not fit into any profiles so this stuff only sometimes generally applies to you but much of the time seems totally wrong-- but that would be a result of you being in the fringe or not existing in their sampling because you are even more rare. I'm usually one of these people who don't fit into any of the normal groups.
"Soft science" doesn't deal with concretes or literals. Its fuzzy. They look for trends in groups and try to define groups from generalized descriptions. To the untrained eye it can look odd but there is an art to it that requires training and skill development to get the "eye" for interpreting the fuzzy data that makes up the field. It is a place where being right means getting a high percentage that would be considered failure elsewhere.
Democracy Now! - uncensored, anti-establishment news
I don't know about you, but I get my energy from food.
Although my ex's personality shift runs much deeper than motherhood, it is most pronounced to me. I suspect this is due to the fact that I am sole care giver to my kids now.
In fact, when we were first married, becoming a mother was her highest priority to the exclusion of all else. This was long before she became so obese. She was quite attractive back then.
She was a doting mother for many years. I would definitely say "sociopathic" is the operative word now. She has become a pathological liar and stands by her lies, even when it is brought to her attention that they are demonstrably untrue. She went from an unapologetic atheist to a bible thumping, scripture quoting, reformed Christian and then to a "Sunday only" Christian, while the whole time committing adultery on her current husband. (She has since left him too, but they are still legally married) She is nothing like the woman I married so many years ago.
Of course I am, this was one of the major areas of my graduate research (the other being experiential learning).
Scares people when I can throw out their MBTI types without even trying -- the only reason I give the tests is it is a process for the person to discover their own personality and the questions help them determine this.
The worse was working with a jury consultant a few years ago (don't ask)...claimed no one could ever get his personality type after he suggested psych tools like the MBTI -- not even psychologists. I said, whats so hard about figuring out an ESTJ...told him he tried to project ENFJ but it should be obvious that knew anything about personality. The guy nearly flipped a lid (after being cool and tightly controlled) telling me I was wrong.
Personality is simple...
Considering the %*^&ing idiotic rat bastards I went to school with.
They made my life a living Hell.
I don't think that anybody would want to live in a town full of these low-life pond scum without being heavily armed and under a regime of outlawry*.
Although I know of two brothers who played "Cowboys and Indians" using real .22 caliber pistols and liked to go to the town dump and "fish for rats" from the overpass, they eventually disappeared from town never to be seen again.
*Outlawry is a legal regime of vengeance which says "If it was done onto you, you have the right to register your grievance with the authorities, get even and not have to worry about reprisals."
It was used during the 9th century in Iceland.
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
Same with me... In school I was very much introverted. Two decades later I'm on a couple sports teams, give talks, make films. I've done rock climbing, gojo ryu, dragon boating, and other team/partner sports too. Difference is that I'm still very much introverted and still am more relaxed when I'm by myself. Not that I don't like social interaction -- actually find it interesting -- but I would often rather read a book alone on the beach than mingle at a party.
ya, but you're "socializing" ONLINE... which is just an extension of the video games you played as a kid (and still play).
drop ALL forms of internet access for three months, then let us know what you're doing and with whom.
Phineas Gage's personality changed dramatically after a head injury.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phineas_Gage
Of course, this is quite an exception, and doesn't apply to most people.
I'd just like to point out a SLIGHT oversight. Puberty. Personality changes. BAM. Done. So much for the 1'st grade being the last step of personality development.
I'm not from the US - how old is first grade?
As a kid, I was a brat and didn't cope well with new situations and was very poor at verbal communication with those that I didn't know. 'Round about 5th or 6th grade I decided the reason people didn't like me much was because I had a horrible temper and I made a conscious effort to fix that. Now I'm very easy going and adapt well to large scale changes in my life. Additionally, I have no issues with public speaking now, so I'd say I did almost a complete 180 starting in late grade school and really being notable around the time I graduated high school. It's tough and requires a lot of effort, but you can change the way you behave.
Sorry, you think a study is "totally bogus" because your single anecdote trumps their statistically significant evidence?
I might be totally different if I hadn't had that crazy bitch teacher in first grade who hated smart kids? Man isn't that a figurative kick in the nuts.
Did you know 80 to 90% of the moderators on slashdot wouldn't recognize a troll even if one dragged them under a bridge.
This doesn't rule out the possibility of you being an extroverted cannibal, getting your energy from other people. :D
from TFS:
A study authored by Christopher Nave, a doctoral candidate at the University of California,
from TFA (emphasis mine):
study author Christopher Nave, a doctoral candidate at the University of California, Riverside.
why the discrepancy? is it less legitimate to be from UCR and more legitimate to simply be from a UC?
My page.
No, no. the study is right. You were hiding your inner self for 17 years. Honestly. How could they're be wrong? They are scientists. I know what I am talking about. I am a scientist too. And I never make mistakes. I swear!!!
Thanks. It's comforting to know that I only have a handful of years left until "the end." I'll plan accordingly.
https://www.eff.org/https-everywhere
well the researchers research is rubbish.
I was very repressed as a child. very quiet, not talkative, not sociable. very introverted.
But fortunately despite all that, at about age 27, I finally gained some great friends and now have become a quite sociable loudmouth buffoon who annoys people by talking too much.
there are still parts of my personality which I still have to fight against (a tendency to procrastinate about new social situations, for example), but I am still heaps different from that repressed teen/young adult that I used to be.
and I'm sure many other people have similar stories.
... I didn't inhale!
--- I am known for the ones who want to find me on the net. Is that a privacy risk or a privilege? One might wonder..
When I was in first grade I would not talk at all. I stayed this way till high school when I was finally forced to talk, I then learned the benefits of being more talkative and assertive and my personality changed greatly. True I still enjoy getting my way but I no longer have to use physical force since I can use a new skill. Because I have become more talkative I have also learned to be more patient and less impulsive, I can now look at the bigger picture and find a better path instead of just a strait line into a trap. I would say a lot of my personality has remained the same, but I have defiantly changed.
Playing less video games really isn't a good indicator of personality change. I have several finds who made major "lifestyle" changes after high school or college, but their personalities are identical.
One used to be a very selfish jerk, in a lot of ways. After college he became ultra-religious, and...sure enough, still a very selfish jerk.
Another used to be a very conservative christian who was arrogant and argued and insulted anyone he talked to. For instance, I'm vegetarian and he was downright belligerent to me for "daring" to be different than him. Now? He's a very liberal muslim vegan. No joke. And he's just as arrogant and belligerent with his new beliefs as his old ones.
Both used to play a lot of video games before, and play little to no video games now. They stopped playing games because they weren't happy with who they were. But they're still the same guys, with the same personality problems.