Slashdot Mirror
ISP's War On BitTorrent Hits World of Warcraft
jfruhlinger writes "Canadian Internet users have the prospect of a metered Internet looming over their head, and now World of Warcraft players who use Rogers Communications as their ISP are encountering serious throttling. The culprit seems to be Rogers' determination to go after BitTorrent. WoW uses BitTorrent as a utility to update game files — something most users probably aren't even aware of."
It'll bleed over into the US soon enough.
The MafiAA usually try out their latest "fuck the consumer" crap in Canadia before they bring it down here. The Canadians aren't used to fighting back.
I'm sure a lot of us saw this coming. Back when I was living in some apartments, the only broadband was a cable company (Ygnition) that does apartment complexes, etc. Little choice for broadband providers. So I went with them. Their TOS forbid bit torrent by name. Thankfully, it was either an empty threat or they knew enough about what was going on to ignore WoW update traffic.
Wouldn't it be better to try this in France?
*ducks*
"I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve."
I don't play WOW myself but I hate selective service blocking...found this digging around for a couple of minutes:
Thank you for your letters of February 23rd and 25th, 2011 regarding the impact of Rogers Internet traffic management practices (ITMP) on the interactive game called World of Warcraft.
Our tests have determined that there is a problem with our traffic management equipment that can interfere with World of Warcraft. We have been in contact with the game manufacturer and we have been working with our equipment supplier to overcome this problem.
We recently introduced a software modification to solve the problems our customers are experiencing with World of Warcraft. However, there have been recent changes to the game, which has created new problems. A second software modification to address these new issues will not be ready until June.
We have determined that the problem occurs only when our customers are simultaneously using peer-to-peer file sharing applications and running the game. Therefore we recommend turning off the peer-to-peer setting in the World of Warcraft game and ensuring that no peer-to-peer applications are running on any connected computer. Rogers will engage our customers to ensure they are aware of these recommendations, while continuing to work on a longer term solution.
We sincerely regret the inconvenience that some of our customers have experienced in playing World of Warcraft and will continue to work with the game supplier and our technology supplier to solve the remaining problems as soon as possible. source
(I have doubts about that portion above in bold.)
We should start a new Slashdot and return control to the geeks. It actually wouldn't be that hard to get some users to
Or, alternatively, we keep the sheep addicted to the virtual world, the ISP somehow decides to recognize gaming as a legitimate use of the network, they refuse to throttle the bandwidth for something that isn't illegal, and we get to keep our p2p channels open as a result.
More likely, I think, a middle ground would be for Blizzard to somehow use a nonstandard port for their torrent activity, and then the ISPs throttle p2p traffic on ports that aren't that one. Yes, the rest of us probably get around that by manually configuring to use the new port, but it's just an idea. My ideas are never bug-free, so somebody feel free either to tell me that I'm completely wrong or to figure out what to change to make it work. Maybe if Blizzard uses a different port and somehow signs the packets...I don't know...I'm really just BS'ing all over my keyboard here....
Let q be a radix > 1. I am in ur base-q, killing 10 d00ds.
That they'll lose 1% of their customers, while charging the rest a hell of a lot more?
My sig can beat up your sig.
You'll regret that you didn't stand up for your WOW addict friends when the internet police get finished with them and decide to come after your goat porn next.
Wouldn't it be better [for the RIAA and MPAA] to try this [latest "fuck the consumer" crap] in France?
They already are. What do you think DADVSI and HADOPI are?
..for most of the rest of the world, where data caps have been in play for some time, if not since the beginning of broadband. Having unmetered data is the exception, not the norm. Calling for boycotts is very funny indeed.
Boycott them anyway. At least you won't be one of the ones they charge "a hell of a lot more" to.
...are a bunch of dicks in everything they do. They've never thought of a fee that is too insulting for their customers. They wrote the book on poor service. They only exist because the government provides protection to a corporation that provides too many political contributions.
Where I live, its one of 2 (and then the resellers). Its either Bell for DSL, or Rogers for cable. All of the third party providers have to use Robbers or Bell as their transport provider to the plug in the wall in your house/apartment/domicile....
Now, TekSavvy is awesome, I have them for my DSL link and static IP I use for my servers. I get notification before scheduled downtime, I have never had an issue with them, and they're fair and affordable. I also have a Rogers cable line because 2.5-3Mbit DSL is just not fast enough when you want to do anything more than browse light pages. Rogers constantly fucks up everything. I had to fight with them to get things set up the first day. Bell Canada is no better, they 'auto-renew' contracts without prior consent, and then attempt to charge you outlandish termination fees. Fuck the big cable/telcos, fuck Cogrobellushaw.
It had to be done... It had to be said...
OR the lack of negative consequences....
There are positive consequences like a less-congested network; not as much bandwidth/new hardware might need to be purchased.
The reduction / delay of new costs may exceed the small dip in revenues from a few lost WoW players (in the vast minority among ISP users).
More likely the complaints go to Blizzard, and blizzard eventually laments the consequences of having chosen BitTorrent for update distribution (as they should, as they should).
You do know your audience.
And understanding the article, you would realize that the updater runs while the game is being played. The current World of Warcraft client updates during play as well as before, allowing the player to get in game faster. The updater IS a bittorrent client.
"Oh my God. This is terrible. This is the end of my Presidency. I'm fucked."; ~ Donald J. Trump
If I'm not mistaken, the torrent aspect of WOW also extends to its normal gameplay connection since Cataclysm. In that they altered their network traffic protocols which resulted in high ping times for users of various ISPs. I think RIFT has the same issues with its traffic being delayed by ISP traffic management software because it sees it as P2P traffic.
I think this is an example of how the witchhunt against pirates and the reluctance to upgrade systems to meet consumer demand will hurt innovation and use of the internet overall.
My understanding is developers are making these protocol changes because they are more efficient - except they are being blocked by ISPs.
Sadly, we do need government regulation to keep the playing fields level, and to ensure that we see continued growth and development of various industries over the Internet. If every ISP employs the same measures, and smaller providers must follow the traffic restrictions of their own larger providers, there is no Choice and Free Market to influence the behaviour of these corporations. It is also clear that these corporations are working hand in hand with IP Holders such as the MPAA and the RIAA. So there is no decoupling of the various business considerations.
I'm not sure why Anti-Monopoly and Anti-Trust laws haven't kicked in yet to prevent what is obviously destructive to competition and a free market. Perhaps Rogers wants Blizzard to knock on its doors and offer money to allow WOW traffic to flow unimpeded?
We may all need to pay a separate VPN provider to play our MMORPGs and other games in the future. Then they'll probably spend MILLIONS developing software that can inspect VPN packets and determine if it's likely to be gaming, video, or torrents. Instead, of course, in spending those millions in upgrading infrastructure.
Make no mistake, none of these companies are strapped for cash. None of them would be pushed to the brink by the use of World of Warcraft, Torrents, or Netflix across their networks. They post >40% profits.
I'm with Rogers and I've seen this a lot. For me, it's not about high latency, it's an auto-disconnect. If a torrent download starts while the game is on, you get disconnected, full stop. Very annoying, especially since we've asked about it before and they basically said that we were idiots who didn't know how to set router priorities.
...no two people are not on fire.
It might be better to try it in Washington, DC. Especially if they're lucky enough to get this judge, a former RIAA lobbyist and pirate-chaser.
Everyone knows that Torrents are only used for illegal file sharing.
My friend's wireless provider does the same thing. When I say wireless, I don't mean cellular and I don't mean wifi, it's some local provider for some corner of our county delivering wireless internet on a licensed spectrum.
Anyways, his terms of service explicitly forbid Bit Torrent and after three days of their service he was disconnected. He called up their tech support line and their first question was, "Well do you play WoW?" After he answered yes, they re-enabled his service and apologized for the inconvenience.
Bit Torrent = Evil except when it keeps people paying their ISP bill...
I went to eat some animal crackers and the box said, "Do not eat if seal is broken." I opened the box and sure enough..
I'd laugh if Blizzard ended up suing them over this.
Cable company FUD. All I have is anecdotal evidence (DSL Reports] should have more information), but the throttling occurs whether or not you happen to be running ther P2P software.
What's more, this is affecting ervices like PSN and XBox Live, but because WoW is just so huge, it's the one attracting all the attention.
So you'd rather they spent their time on /. ?
Are you entirely deranged?
In case you don't see the point, they are punishing the tool for its (mis)use. P2P and bittorrent do, as this shows, have very legal and very useful purposes. Yes, it's used to distribute files illegally, but it can also be used legally.
Should we outlaw something or allow companies to arbitrary label tools illegal just because some people abuse them?
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
If people run torrents (the WoW updater) their connection is throttled. If they run WoW with a throttled connection, there is a problem. If they don't run WoW with a throttled connection, there is no problem.
Either way, the connection is throttled. It's just that if you don't play WoW during it you're less likely to notice.
I just switched to TekSavvy Cable, which is being rolled out in a few metro areas. No throttling, no spurious RST packets. For the first time in years, I can download torrents reliably and play on Xbox Live without timeouts... This is like old-school broadband, before the telcos started filtering everything to shit.
-Billco, Fnarg.com
People still P2P too. The traffic is just encrypted instead. If the WOW client doesn't support it, blocking P2P are only going to hinder the nice innocent people. The whole telecommunication ecosystem in Canada is scary. It is painful to read in the newspaper that people argue that Parliament should not intervene with the CRTC. Which is a complete joke. Any government organization that does not have the fear of having responsibility to the people is just asking to be abused.
I've seen illegal copies of music on web pages, and look at all the stuff on Youtube that shouldn't be there. I've seen people selling many questionable things out of their cars. Planes are frequently used to smuggle illegal drugs. Hell, you can find stores selling stuff that they're not supposed to be selling in the 'right' parts of the world. Shut all those down too by removing the tools?
If we can just get *most* of the things on bittorrent to be legal, maybe...naw, the music industry has to have a scapegoat.
Chaos, panic, disorder...my work here is done.
That implies that the ISP cares about whether the bits are legal or not. I don't think they do. What they care about is having to actually give people the bandwidth they paid for.
Make $HIGH_BW_PROTOCOL so slow that people just don't bother, save money on not upgrading routers and not paying for bandwidth. Funnel extra profit to CEO. win.
Sent from my PDP-11
At least they wrote a book, it's kinda impossible to get anything written or otherwise binding out of my ISP...
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
I can't tell if you're being sarcastic but you do know that most Linux distros also use bittorrent to distribute, right? Packages and individual packages do not use it but if you're trying to get the whole Debian image, there's no better way.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
Unless Rogers is throttling bittorrent regardless and trying to blame the game playing when it isn't a factor.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
I dropped my Rogers subscription just last week and moved to TekSavvy. Speeds are good (the same as Rogers), I'm basically paying 50% less, and I'm getting a consistent 15Mbits down. For anybody out there with Rogers.. please do all of Canada a favor and switch, even though Rogers is the one leasing the lines.
The magical number is: 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
Compared to Rogers, Comcast is eligible for canonization.
upon the advice of my lawyer, i have no sig at this time
MLPPP baby Full speed day and night. Now if only we could get bell to honour the speed matching rulings we'd be set.
If they wrote the book, then AT&T in the US is about to make the movie on poor customer service. Don't forget to join the facebook protest group against AT&Ts bandwidth capping. Don't let this happen in America. http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_186439608067383
Sam has one liberty, which he sacrifices for one security. Can you tell me what Sam has now?
That's what I meant. If you use bittorrent, you get throttled. You only notice it if you play WoW, so their solution is to tell people not to play WoW (or any game) so they won't notice. It's not a solution at all, they're just telling their customers to cover their eyes so they won't see the problem.
but you do know that most Linux distros also use bittorrent to distribute, right?
Roger that. But guess what? Rogers don't give a fuck about Linux, not for their customers at least.
Questions raise, answers kill. Raise questions to stay alive.
... bbbuut it's THE INTERNET! It's different! (... somehow?)
For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
Please keep your 4chan, anon, worthless shit on /b/. You and Anonymous are a waste of packets.
Gone!
I have never had to deal with an American ISP, but I suspect that Canadian telecoms are worse than American ones. I recently read a financial article that said that American telecoms need to follow Canadian telecoms to achieve better profits. ie - charge more, provide less. Canadian telecoms are world leaders in monopoly power abuse.
I beg to differ. Bell is very competitive in providing poor service.
Yea, and your 40 minute update (with p2p on and a non-retarded ISP) baloons to hours, if not over a day.
Sounds like a good trade to me! ...
For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
Jidgo is pretty damn slick!
For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
Our office has a Comcast business line (while we wait for some jackass to hurry up and fix our broken fiber) - several times a day, our latency spikes up to - in some cases - 15 fucking seconds.
MTR graphs show this latency spike is always in the middle of Comcast's local network. ... I think once you get past the first few circles of Hell, it doesn't really matter how evil you are compared to your neighbors.
For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
I'm with Rogers and I've seen this a lot. For me, it's not about high latency, it's an auto-disconnect. If a torrent download starts while the game is on, you get disconnected, full stop. Very annoying, especially since we've asked about it before and they basically said that we were idiots who didn't know how to set router priorities.
I'd be inclined to agree. You did connect your uplink to Rogers, for example.
For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
So you mean they respond to torrent traffic by throttling everything? WTF!?
Is this some $40 Traffic "Shaper" they have patched into their network!? They can't throttle the specific connections or protocols that are objectionable?
For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
Telling you want protocol you can and can not use is like telling you what sites you can and can't visit. Are they going to block YouTube next because that causes a lof of downstream traffic? I also think it is worth mentioning that there are a whole lot of other legal BitTorrent uses besides WOW. You make a movie, you want to distribute your movie for free, you put it on BitTorrent and now your movie is censored in Canada.
9/11: Never forget it was a false-flag operation
I don't think Canadian ISPs are particularly concerned with the legality of P2P content, but rather the fact that Rogers is a cable company, so if you're downloading video and music that you did not purchase from them, then that's a problem. They don't actually care so much about WOW, because they don't see it as a threat to their revenue model.
I am literally 3000 tokens away from the chaotic crossbow --Stephen
These days the in-game downloader is required as changes are loaded dynamically. Whenever you enter an area there are two progress bars - one for loading objects in memory and one (the small one) for downloading essential area data. An alternative would be to leave the launcher running until it downloads all zillion fragments (16GB or so) most of which you're never going to see. And repeat after every patch.
Without the BitTorrent feature in the updater on you can look forward to spending many hours downloading the latest content patch (and don't even think of doing a reinstall and downloading all patches since release at once, that will take you days since the http connection to Blizzard's server will be dog-slow).
Of course, if you're on DSL or some other connection with piss-poor upstream speeds you're screwed anyway since the Blizzard updater doesn't play nice with your upstream, it just goes full out (thus killing your downstream as well).
Greylisting is to SMTP as NAT is to IPv4
I have yet to see a home router that supports a proper QoS system. It's not even possible for a router using a seperate cable modem, as congestion happens there. So Rogers statement is "We're not breaking it, and if you do this simple impossible task it will prove so."
For the record, "bloodsail admiral" is considered an awesome title in WoW. And it comes with an awesome pirate suit.
Have you considered a router running OpenWRT or Tomato? I don't know what you are using as a definition of a "proper" QoS system, but OpenWRT works for me.
Unfortunately, Illegal != Does not exist.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sponsorship_scandal
One of many examples of our illustrious politicians throwing handfuls of money at their friends. Some of which they see back via "fundraising". It's our form of corporate contributions, and even though it's limited it still stains politics.
We've an election very soon and I feel there is no one to vote for that isn't either corrupt or bat-shit crazy (or both). :(
That would explain the insane amount of money Blizzard makes, they have an army of pirates plundering our intertubes !
This is pretty much old news, this has been seen ever since Cataclysm was released.
http://wow.joystiq.com/2011/01/14/the-lawbringer-net-neutrality-and-mmos/
I believe the issue is mostly that the deep packet inspection kit that the ISPs use to classify and throttle/shape traffic are unable to distingush between Warcraft traffic and Bittorrent traffic since the changes made for Cataclysm, until signatures/filters/etc are updated to classify the traffic correctly, but in many cases they seem to be taking their own sweet time about doing it (or aren't capable of doing it).
Note that I don't really have a huge problem with traffic shaping as done by an ISP, as long as the customer is well informed as to exactly what is going on and why, some ISPs are better at cummunicating this than others.
I know several people who have changed ISP over this issue, but obviously this isn't an option in some areas where there isn't really much competition.
I have a better idea: just don't throttle anything based on the protocol used.
Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
They have only "Save the children" or "Save the entertainment cartels" on their minds. Well, what little minds they have, anyway.
They've got their minds on their money and their money on their minds. Except when they've got their minds on their power and their power on their minds.
Everything else, particularly people, are either a means to an end or an obstacle to be rolled over or bought off.
Much of the problem is with a society that tolerates, even rewarding and celebrating, such ruthlessness, greed, and amorality as demonstrated over the last 100 years or so by those in government.
It *can* be changed and even reversed, *if* the majority of people would decide they're tired of it and start to actually hold politicians accountable, educate themselves on the issues, and treat voting seriously.
I know. Miracles *do* happen, though. "It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." - Yogi Berra
Strat
Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
The problem is, their customers don't have a lot of places to go.
I've only visited Canada a few times, but even I know it is mostly Bell for DSL, or Rogers for cable in the ground with some resellers on top.
You probably will be paying the two mentioned above atleast a line or termination fee.
So their isn't much to choose.
New things are always on the horizon
I have said it for years, and yet ISPs/Blizzard only learn by doing.
Bittorrent != Piracy. It is used by applications for distributing e.g. updates or games in Steam-like services.
So what does Blizzard have to learn? That they kept on using bittorrent for distributing updates, knowingly ISPs would block or throttle the bandwidth for it.
However I still praise Blizzard for using bittorrent, to fight the consensus that bittorrent is equal to piracy.
That's what they're thinking. But, like it or not, metered Internet - properly, fairly metered Internet - is the solution to this problem.
ISPs should be selling you A Chunk of Data. They can figure out how much they should sell you based on their recorded average usage patterns, figure out prices, and then tell you that you get X GB per month for $Y.
And then their job is to fuck RIGHT off, and let you use it any way you see fit. You want to use it to download 1 megabyte of email a month, fine. You want to blow your whole quota downloading WoW patches and seeding them and playing the game, fine. The important thing is that they're neutral,
As long as there's this bullshit expectation that "unlimited data" is a real thing, ISPs will keep finding ways to justify crippling, throttling or otherwise screwing over customers. If you're not with an ISP that is truly neutral and is prepared to sell you an unfiltered connection then you need to change - unless you're one of those third world countries like the US where you are screwed by monopolistic telcos.
If you're a World of Warcraft player though, you might want to ask why Blizzard has to leverage your Internet connection - and thus your dollars - to help distribute their patches. You'd think that'd get covered by your monthly fee! If I was paying $10 a month or whatever a World of Warcraft subscription costs, I would expect my updates to come from high-speed HTTP servers and I would expect to not have to contribute my bandwidth to the pool so other people could download the patch.
Don't get me wrong, I don't begrudge them the ability to do that. I think it's a great example of BitTorrent being used legitimately. All I know is, we mirror World of Warcraft patches for Australian users and every single patch release, they're hugely popular because users know they can just come to our site, download the patch in a quarter or a tenth of the time of the Blizzard Downloader, so they'll be up and playing much faster and they don't have to blow their precious limited monthly quota sending bytes to other WoW users!
For QoS to work, it has to be applied at the point of contention where packets would be dropped. That's the modem, not the router - so no matter what you do in the router, it isn't going to work if the modem is a seperate piece of hardware. This is the case with just about all cable ISPs, though not for (A)DSL.
There is a dirty hack you can do with rate limiting to apply QoS at the router, but it is very ugly and means sacrificing a small amount of capacity even under ideal conditions.
The Canadians aren't used to fighting back.
Like you are? Corporate America has owned your ass far longer than their corporate equivalent in most countries. All the fighting back in your case is about switching to another company, which is not radically different from the other, since you consider government intervention ugly and evil and the government and lobbysts are very happy to go along with that.
Some people don't have that option in their area, therefore legislation is really needed to fix this issue. Kind of like how it is illegal to sell rotten food in a restaurant.
Telus is also in competition with regards to lousy service, but then so is Shaw.
What is a shame is that the various cable/internet providers have been allowed to carve up the market in such a manner as to avoid competition for the most part. Here in Victoria, your choices are Shaw or Telus. By agreement Rogers does not compete in the internet market here, just as Shaw agreed to not compete in other cities. They divvied up the market between them and for the longest time there was no competition at all. Telus jumped in a few years ago (they also provide TV over the phone lines now of course) and that has provided competition, but if anything the prices for both Shaw and Telus have gone up, so not much evidence of any competition. Shaw's internet is so/so in terms of quality but being a cable company there TV is superior to Telus. Telus's internet is pretty decent overall, but being a phone company their TV is pretty so/so.
Personally I would like to see our internet providers all put out of business and be replaced with a Crown Corporation charged to provide the best service at the cheapest price. Canadian's pay an exorbitantly high fee for all of our communications services generally, far higher than other nations from what I understand. The reason is that the CRTC seems to just rubberstamp whatever the providers ask them to.
Thankfully Bell has apparently dropped its push to go for metered billing...
"The first time I got drunk, I got married. The second time I bought a chimpanzee, after that I stayed sober" Arian Seid
These companies fail to realize a very important detail about BitTorrent. Just like it happened in Linux when it came to new distro releases and in a game like Warcraft when there is a new patch to download, I have yet to see anything more efficient than BitTorrent to download content. Everybody wanting to get a piece of something needs to contribute with something. That has to beat setting up your own CDN architecture since not everybody is a freaking company willing or able to pay for such premiums.
I understand that bandwith doesn't grow on trees and I'm much better signing a contract where they say, here, have 200 GB a month in any way you see fit, than getting "unlimited" or worse limited bandwidth with throttling issues. In any case, I really believe this market in question is in dire need of regulation of some sort. So push your ellected officials to do something about it.
Calling the non-Bell/Rogers ISPs "resellers" is a bit of a misnomer, implying that these ISPs are merely a rebranding of service provided by Bell and Rogers. That kind of mischaracterization is what lets Bell and Rogers paint third party ISPs as leeches who are screwing Bell/Rogers customers with their high bandwidth use. In fact, what is being resold is last mile bandwidth. Third party ISP traffic is quickly switched over to a separate network (paid for and maintained by the third party) after the last mile.
I would have thought running the modem bridged would have overcome that limitation.
I use BT for downloading and sharing freeware/abandonware only. Why should I have to go through the hassle of modifying my settings because the ISPs have been forced by the recording industries to treat everyone as a criminal?
"Action without philosophy is a lethal weapon; philosophy without action is worthless."
If I had mod points, I'd mod you up... Instead, I'll just say "thank you, I didn't know that's how it worked"
I'm a Comcast customer in the US, and I'm watching this closely as I'm sure it's bound to affect me one way or another. I wonder if we've got any of these "leased last mile" alternative providers.
The Digital Sorceress
I've seen people selling many questionable things out of their cars. Planes are frequently used to smuggle illegal drugs. Hell, you can find stores selling stuff that they're not supposed to be selling in the 'right' parts of the world. Shut all those down too by removing the tools?
So you're fighting to make lock pick sets legal in all fifty states now? And you're standing in line to make all guns legal too? And I know all phallus shaped vibrators are next to receive your ringing endorsement and active protests.
Realistically, there actually are important things which should be receiving your attention, which are literally protected by the US Constitution, and yet frequently outlawed by the weak minded who seem completely incapable of understanding the US' most important document. At least music and lock picks have been "outlawed" because the vast majority of uses are, in fact, illegal.
So while I absolutely believe things like lock picks, phallic dildos, guns, and bit torrent should all be legal, at least one of those has overwhelming significance to everyone. And as a hint, its not bit torrent.
It's already happened in the US.
I f configured properly, WoW can be played with no slow down what so ever, as the file is downloaded in the background, and will be installed once fully loaded, so if it takes 5 minutes instead of 1, who cares...i guess they are trying to get more to see there is a potential problem, but we all knew that already. Do not let them throttle your connection for any reason, as you pay for a service for xxx bandwidth and xxx speed....for the price you pay....unless they want to give you credit every time they throttle you down, as it now breaks the said contract....
music and lock picks have been "outlawed" because the vast majority of uses are, in fact, illegal.
I don't know what "music" you're talking about, but lock picks are legal in all states (some states require locksmith license) because they recognize that people only think they're used for illegal purposes. Television has made the perception that criminals use them, but a kick to the door, crowbar, brick to the window, and bolt cutter to the padlock are the real burglar tools. Why would a criminal spend several minutes to an hour to pick a lock when some property damage gets them instant access? Lock picks are almost always used for legitimate purpose due to lost or locked keys.
Thankfully Bell has apparently dropped its push to go for metered billing...
Nope, they've just changed the name of it to Aggregated Volume Pricing (AVP). From Michael Geist's blog: "Bell obviously saw the writing on the wall and has come back with a plan that allows independent ISPs to purchase 1 TB of data for $200 with an overage charge of 29.5 cents per GB."
That's data that the ISP already pays for. Bell wants to double-dip.
I don't know what "music" you're talking about
Don't know what you're talking about.
but lock picks are legal in all states (some states require locksmith license)
Only when licensed. If you are unlicensed, you are arrested. Furthermore, many states require background checks to receive your license. And worse, some states require sign-off by a law enforcement official. The point remains, they are illegal unless you go through great leaps to be allowed to legally own. Are you suggesting we should all be licensed to be allowed to use bit torrent? That's they only way your statement seems to make any sense.
Why would a criminal spend several minutes to an hour to pick a lock when some property damage gets them instant access?
Why are 98% of all crimes commit with handguns committed with unlicensed firearms and yet we still require licensing and tracking. Here's a hint - it literally has more to do with Germany's history rather than crime deterrence. This is resoundingly validated by the illegal use of federal troops and state officers to use registration lists to illegal steal weapons (as was exactly done in Germany's history) from all citizens after Katrina. But at this point, we're pretty far off point.
Lock picks are almost always used for legitimate purpose due to lost or locked keys.
Then there is no need to make possession a criminal offense and no need to require licensing. As I said, I'm sure you're right out there fighting the good fight.
I am actually surprised I haven't ever seen anyone compare P2P to gun ownership. Guns are useful tools. They have many legitimate uses. However there are those who use them improperly. Rob others. Take lives. We need an NRA type organization for P2P.
How many tries did it take to get your DMCA passed?
They've tried 3 times to get it through here, and all three times it's failed; the first two because of citizen backlash.
The third time was because the government was just brought down in a non-confidence vote.
<sarcasm>Another election! Yay!! </sarcasm>
"City hall" in German is "Rathaus" Kinda explains a few things......
...Google "Comcast bittorrent throttling." LOL, n00b.
For your security, this post has been encrypted with ROT-13, twice.
There is a major difference in perception. Firearms have a long tradition as essential tools for living. Even prisoners, after their release, were commonly returned their firearm and provided ammunition. It was understood most people used it as an essential tool which also acts as a literal weapon of liberty. Its illegal uses were and are, by far, in the minority.
P2P, unfortunately, was quickly seized on by those who used it strictly for illegal purposes. Blizzard making use of it for their game came only after it became entrenched for illegal purposes. Even to this day, the majority of bit torrent traffic still supports massive numbers of criminal offenses. For now, garnering organizational support for P2P is the same thing as advocating criminal behavior. And, more or less, we're already seen organizations attempt this - Limewire and Pirate Bay are some such commercial ventures.
Its important to understand that despite that statistics clearly showing anti-gun people are crazy, even finding support to abolish what was very clearly unconstitutional laws is difficult. I can't see any P2P organization as being sustainable and certainly not without becoming an easy target by the likes of the big media owners.
I've always found Rogers internet service to be great. Never experienced any throttling. I really think it varies by where you live. Everyone I know in Ottawa has never had a problem with traffic of any kind being throttled. They even have a new feature that detects available bandwidth in the network, and lets you go beyond your maximum speed. Because of this, my 3 mbit connections runs almost exclusively at 10 mbit. I would like to know where people are reporting these throttling problems from. Because living in Ottawa for 10+ years, and being on cable internet 10 years, I can say I've never seen any evidence of this.
Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
But if several people from a corporation were to donate their personal maximum to a political figure/party, no one would bat an eye. That's to say nothing of cash under the table or work provided in-kind :S
52 52'23" W 47 32'07" N
TekSavvy leases from both Rogers (cable) and Bell (DSL). AFAIK, their DSL is subject to Bell's throttling.
Yeah, ok, english is not my first language. Resellers was a bad way to refer to them.
New things are always on the horizon
Maybe this will finally get people to protest against the monopolistic ways we keep allowing.
Please don't just pull stuff out of your ass; nothing about your statement is true. The *IAA's 2 biggest weapons, right now, are the DMCA and the threat of statutory damages. Both of these were first pioneered (or only exist) in the U.S. We don't have anything like the DMCA (they've tried, it is just that we fought back). Statutory damages are set to be reduced in Canada. This is, in part, to prevent the abuse of the law like what has happened in the states. If you want to learn some actual facts about copyright in Canada, subscribe to Michael Geist's blog: http://www.michaelgeist.ca/
Perhaps you haven't been vocal enough with your outrage at the music companies? For having failed to write a few dozen more "Screw you!" letters, your just punishment is being throttled!
"Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
I believe he's referring to this.
;-) mmmm Bacon
Yes I just Kevin Bacon'd your argument
People in cars cause accidents....accidents in cars cause people
We keep the spotlight on things like this so as to avoid desensitization. Just because something is commonplace doesn't make it acceptable or ethically right. On the other hand, something being commonplace does make it very easy to consider the norm, and the last thing we want is for corporate abuses like this to be considered normal.
By raising a clamor about it every time, we reinforce the notion that it's abnormal and unacceptable, and open the door for discussions as to exactly why.
Help protect civil rights from abuse by the TSA - visit TSA News Blog.
http://www.tsanewsblog.com
Too bad you fail at reading. Lock picks are legal, period. some states require a license as a locksmith, but not all:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lock_picking#United_States
Only a very few states require licenses, and of those, generally they still have to prove intent in order to claim they were for burglary.
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
most of the 3rd party websites load much faster on the hospital network. How could this be? Is it possible Time Warner excludes known speed tests from throttling? I need to put them side by side and do some tests with a stopwatch, but I don't like Time Warner already.
No, no, I'm sorry I was being unclear. This is just my guess. Why else would throttled Torrent traffic impact gameplay?
Too bad you failed to fucking read and comprehend twice now! Two fucking posts. One in detail which specifically addresses the issue. You are fucking retarded. Holy shit I can only pray you are removed from the gene pool.
Fucking retards /. attracts these days.
Yes - pot is completely legal too - unless you have a prescription - at which point, you can go to fucking jail. Damn you're fucking retarded. Yes, suppressors are fucking legal too, unless you don't have your FFL at which point, you go to fucking jail. Damn you're fucking retarded.
For all intents and purposes, they are illegal. You can jump through hoops to become an exception, but in many states, its a crime to posses without such exceptions. That's not the same thing as being legal. Dip shit. Holy shit you are fucking stupid.
Read the Wikipedia page. They are not illegal in any state in the union, nor are they illegal federally. A FEW states have a requirement of a license. Are guns illegal because you need a license? Are cars illegal because you need a license?
Perfectly legal: 42 states
Need a license: 8 + DC
Against the law to posses: 0.00000%
Requirement of showing intent to rob a house to be charged with possesion: 100%
Therefore: not illegal anywhere.
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
Their job is to provide a connection to the internet, nothing more and nothing less. They are given more than enough money to provide a much better connection then they are providing now. And they are now metering certain internet protocools? NO! Data is Data and their job is to transmit my data.
Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. -- Isaac Asimov
Actually yes, WoW's Launcher *is* a "file sharing application" (BitTorrent) if you use its default settings.
Options > Comment Post Mode > Plain Old Text.
It works.
Could Blizzard sue Rogers for interfering with their business by causing problems for WoW players?
Rogers seems to use a throttling method of simply randomly dropping P2P connections when they exceed a certain number (and that number is awfully low). Since WoW uses some form of P2P protocol during game play, and not just when a patch is available but all the time, if you happen to be downloading ANYTHING else with a BT client then there is a chance that the WoW data will be the randomly dropped connection. It's been this way since CATA was released.
From some simple tests I could get my WoW to drop with as few as 30 simultaneous connections under uTorrent. Speed itself doesn't seem to be a determining factor since if I can get 1MB/s from 10-20 peers my WoW remains stable but if I up the allowable peers to 20+, even with a slow dl of 10kb/s, I'm almost guaranteed to disconnect from WoW within 5 minutes and while I can reconnect to the logon server no problem, I won't be able to reconnect to the gaming server until I close uTorrent or lower my connection settings.
It's annoying but my 95gb/month limit is about perfect for my needs and switching to almost any other ISP in my area will mean lowering my limit or paying more. And since Rogers no longer offers the 95gb option if I switch and decide to come back I'd end up losing 15gb/month or having to pay an extra $10 to move up a package.
Of course that's just my opinion...... you could be wrong!
Barrens Chat.
now that idea is clear unreasonable, what about the zilloins of dollars "LOST" to piracy
THINK OF THE CHILDREN
warning pointless sig
Well World of Warcraft sucks anyway, so why care about the difficulty for them to be playing. They are no life fuckers who are stupid and just have no life!
Rodgers_ITMP ;Bunch of jerks.
If BitTorrent = "WOW"
Then THROTTLE = "NO"
Elseif
Then THROTTLE = "HELLYA"
Endif
The "children" are the ones doing most of the pirating! :p
Remember to maintain your supply of
Isn't WoW goat porn? Wait, that's Tauren porn, nevermind.
Remember to maintain your supply of