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Ubisoft Considers Always-Connected DRM "A Success"

Ubisoft made headlines a couple days ago for bringing back their restrictive DRM for an upcoming racing game. Speaking with PCGamer in response to the overwhelmingly negative feedback to this news, a Ubisoft representative said the company has seen "a clear reduction in piracy of our titles which required a persistent online connection," adding, "from that point of view the requirement is a success." One wonders how they measured this, and how they compare it to sales lost due to the bad press it's generated.

224 comments

  1. It is a sucess by Osgeld · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I spend much less on games now

    1. Re:It is a sucess by g00mbasv · · Score: 4, Funny

      This was a triumph! I'm making a note here: "huge success!!" It's hard to overstate My satisfaction. Ubisoft: We do what me must Because we can. For the good of all of us. Except the ones who are buying our games.

    2. Re:It is a sucess by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't, I just spend it on games that Ubisoft didn't publish.

    3. Re:It is a sucess by QuantumLeaper · · Score: 1

      I was going say 'Thanks Ubisoft', it save me more money also. I guess it is a success for me too....

    4. Re:It is a sucess by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      But there's no sense crying over every mistake.
      You just keep on buying every game that they make.
      Even if they're not fun
      The corporations have won
      They own everyone who is alive.

    5. Re:It is a sucess by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I guess I'll just play the pirated versions that hack around the always connected code. Good going Ubi! Smart!

    6. Re:It is a sucess by hardburlyboogerman · · Score: 1

      Not with me.If it has DRM,I won't buy.Period

      --
      Geek Hillbilly
    7. Re:It is a sucess by b4dc0d3r · · Score: 1

      I know the DRM is about PC games, but I just got an XBOX 360 not too long ago.

      I have bought several games, and plan on buying more. I prefer cheap new games than used, but when it's an Ubisoft title, I make sure to get it used. I don't know if I'm helping or not.

      http://www.ubi.com/us/games/search.aspx?pltag=xbox360

    8. Re:It is a sucess by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      But there's no sense crying over every mistake.
      You just keep on buying every game that they remake.
      Even if they're not fun
      The corporations have won
      They fuck everyone with a DRM'd rake

      FTFY. :P

    9. Re:It is a sucess by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      But there's no sense crying over every mistake.
      You just keep on buying every game that they make.
      Even if they're not fun
      The corporations have won
      They own everyone who is alive.

      Too bad you're an AC, that was insightful, and it's one of the biggest reasons I got out of the gaming scene (although my daughters are still heavily into it).

      Besides, I have hundreds of games, if I can get them to run on modern equipment is the big "if".

    10. Re:It is a sucess by antdude · · Score: 1

      I play much less games these days. The newer ones aren't fun as the older simpleer ones. I mostly play Flash games.

      --
      Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
    11. Re:It is a sucess by Osgeld · · Score: 1

      I will agree with this, (to a point I do have some new favorites) but they spend millions on art, direction, story, marketing and technology but somewhere post PS1 developers forgot how to make their game fun

    12. Re:It is a sucess by starofale · · Score: 1

      Or you've just gotten old...

    13. Re:It is a sucess by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You help Ubisoft a little.
      The guy who sold the game to you wouldn't have bought it in the first place if he thought he wouldn't be able to sell it later because it's a Ubisoft game.

      I'm not telling you what you should do, it's entirely up to you to decide how committed you are to boycotting Ubisoft games. Just pointing out how your actions indirectly support them.

    14. Re:It is a sucess by Javaman59 · · Score: 2

      Besides, I have hundreds of games, if I can get them to run on modern equipment is the big "if".

      I suggest that you try the old games under Win7. I have Need For Speed - Porsche (year 2000), which ran under Win98, but not XP or Vista, and I installed it in Win7 and it ran first time, with full graphics and force-feedback steering wheel. :)

      --
      I'm a software visionary. I don't code.
    15. Re:It is a sucess by ShakaUVM · · Score: 1

      >>You just keep on buying every game that they make.

      Not me. I haven't bought a single Ubisoft game since their new DRM bullshit came out a couple years back.

    16. Re:It is a sucess by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I haven't bought a single Ubisoft game ever. They all suck.

    17. Re:It is a sucess by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What you should be doing is pirating their games then letting them just run whenever you're not using your computer. That way the piracy numbers will go up and they'll have to say they need stronger DRM built into your PC architecture to combat the rise in pira...wait a minute.

    18. Re:It is a sucess by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      Actually I'd say it is because all the game developers are director wannabes and have giant boners for "cinematic experiences' which ALWAYS translates to "walk a straight line, scripted battle with big theme music to make it heroic, walk in a straight line, cinema scene" lather rinse repeat. Add to this the two gun limit regenerating health Halo bullshit and you have, to quote one of my favorite reviewers "flavorless wallpaper paste squirted out of the backsides of uncreative publishers with seriously fucked-up eating habits."

      As for TFA I hate to break the news to ya Ubisoft baby but the Reloaded pirate version is usually released a week or two from the release date it is simply that nobody wants your shit since most of the crap you've been putting out is just that, crap, pirates don't bother. It would be like pirating Kane & Lynch, your PC would need a little brown bag over it to hide the shame of downloading that turdfest.

      So if your goal was to put out games the pirates don't want, and which pisses off the legit customers like me so bad we won't buy it for $1, even if you threw in your entire back catalog? Mission accomplished Ubisoft. I had full intentions of buying it on release day whether it was shit or not simply because it had the 71 Pontiac Le Mans, which was the car I spent my teen years driving. But I won't deal with your always online BS so that is another $50 you won't be getting. Keep it up Ubi, maybe when you lose enough money you'll get bought by Activision, you two seem made for each other.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    19. Re:It is a sucess by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I only buy stuff like the humblebundle.com now. No DRM. No fuss.

      Ubisoft lost money from people I know because of the crap they pulled with Assassin's Creed. The first one lagged during gameplay until I turned off network access. Then FPS stayed stable and high. Absolute disgrace. Only DRM free games for me now.

    20. Re:It is a sucess by dadioflex · · Score: 1

      So here I am, massively hungover, singing in my underpants. Nice job, Slashdot, nice job,,,

      Ubisoft may be winning the battle (the one they see in their head) but they're losing the war (the one we see for our wallets).

    21. Re:It is a sucess by Vectormatic · · Score: 1

      as my AC sibling points out, by buying used games, you are giving (part of, the middle man takes a BIG chunk) money to someone who doesnt boycot ubi, and thus, some of your money still flowes to ubisoft.

      I enjoyed assassins creed a lot, then they pulled that always online DRM out of their hat for part 2, and even though i only play those games on the xbox, i stopped buying them altogether, fuck ubisoft!

      --
      People, what a bunch of bastards
    22. Re:It is a sucess by lexsird · · Score: 1

      I understand, as far as I am concerned the gaming industry can collectively go blow itself. It needs consumer rights and some regulation in my opinion. Life has plenty of other things to do beside computer gaming, which is shocking blasphemy to some, but oh well.

      --
      Take the Red Pill.
    23. Re:It is a sucess by Cryacin · · Score: 1

      Like Churchill said, I never believe any statistics I didn't make up myself.

      --
      Science advances one funeral at a time- Max Planck
    24. Re:It is a sucess by Uhyve · · Score: 1

      Heh, that's what I've been doing with all developers that I disagree with, which at the moment, is mainly just Activision. Annoyingly with PC games I can't really do that, which is killing me with The Settlers 7, since it just means that I haven't bought it. Though with this news, I feel like voting with my wallet isn't gonna make a difference, I guess Ubisoft are saying that you would need to pirate their games to send a message.

    25. Re:It is a sucess by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is just as easy to pirate the games that require "always online" just different from cracking the old "strange CD requirements" ones.

      I think they confuse the "overall drop in pirated versions of our games" (How they ever monitor or guess at that?!) with "overall disinterest in our games"...

    26. Re:It is a sucess by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      Well, if I get another netbook it's likely to have win7 on it, if I can get the old old games to play, great. But there were some Win95 (and especially older DOS) games that wouldn't run under XP. XP "disabled" them (without letting me uninstall them).

      No way am I going to buy a copy of Win 7 although I probably won't wipe a drive that has it preinstalled, and I won't pirate it, either (fear of rootkits). I've bought LOTS of OSes from MS, and the only one I felt gave me my money's worth was when I upgraded from DOS 3.1 to DOS 6.2. 6.2 had doublespace, DOSshell, and actually ran faster than 3.1. But I bought 95, 98, and XP and felt ripped off all three times. I had Win 7 on the Acer that got stolen, and it was actually not a bad OS, but nowhere near worth what they want you to pay for it. I can buy a whole bare-bones computer cheaper than I can buy a premium copy of Windows.

  2. They can take that c___ and blow it out their a__ by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    First one to fill in the blanks wins a Tardis.

  3. good for you Ubi by spidercoz · · Score: 5, Funny

    I hope you succeed all the way to bankruptcy

    --
    "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - Evelyn Beatrice Hall, re Voltaire
    1. Re:good for you Ubi by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      Heh... They're "Succeeding" much like Sheen was "Winning".

  4. Sales lost? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

    I doubt it. Gamers simply aren't that hardcore or idealistic.

    They all flocked right back to PSN, credit cards in hand, when it came online, didnt they?

    Everyone flocked to Steam to get HL2, when it was doing the same thing.

    They're right. Gamers will put up with just about anything. And don't kid yourself, you're never offline, you fucking nerds.

    1. Re:Sales lost? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You should talk, you're always online .. see even right now.

    2. Re:Sales lost? by redherring728 · · Score: 2

      And don't kid yourself, you're never offline, you fucking nerds.

      Everything else you said was simply stating the obvious, but for this one I have to call bullshit.

    3. Re:Sales lost? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Everyone flocked to Steam to get HL2, when it was doing the same thing.

      You have no clue what you're talking about. Steam allowed you to easily switch to offline mode from the online mode, ensuring you could use your games if you went on a trip or something like that. There's the downside of not being able to play if your internet goes does unexpectedly, but that's way different than the game shutting you off if your internet connection ever misses a beat no with no possibility of offline mode.

    4. Re:Sales lost? by AvitarX · · Score: 1

      And don't kid yourself, you're never offline, you fucking nerds.

      I'm guessing you don't travel, busy hotels often times don't have internet between the hours of 7pm and 11pm (2-4 second ping and 5-25KBps).

      I doubt it would be stable enough to work with this, and yes, when working away from home, I do like to play on my laptop for a stretch.

      --
      Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
    5. Re:Sales lost? by VGPowerlord · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I can play HL2 (or any other Steam game) for the PC for up to a month offline after initially activating it.

      I can't play Assassin's Creed 2 or Driver: San Francisco for the PC offline for even 1 second.

      --
      GLaDOS for President 2016! "Well here we are again. It's always such a pleasure." -- GLaDOS, 2011
    6. Re:Sales lost? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hey, welcome to UK! A country were most people have a shitty connection! I've had trouble with the connection for the past five days!

      Now really, always online drm is shit. I buy games exactly for this - times were I've no connection.

    7. Re:Sales lost? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I doubt it. Gamers simply aren't that hardcore or idealistic.

      They all flocked right back to PSN, credit cards in hand, when it came online, didnt they?

      Everyone flocked to Steam to get HL2, when it was doing the same thing.

      They're right. Gamers will put up with just about anything. And don't kid yourself, you're never offline, you fucking nerds.

      False. The only way that games are installed on my dedicated gaming machine is via the DVD drive. There is no Steam on it, and there are no games on it that require an Internet connection, neither to "register" nor to play. I can't wait for Skyrim to come out, and I even bought a new (well, to me) Radeon 6970 for it, but it'll either work without a network connection or it won't, in which case I'll be buying and playing something else.

    8. Re:Sales lost? by Baloroth · · Score: 4, Informative

      Only a month? I've seen computers go for ~9 months w/o an internet connection still able to play steam games offline. Technically, I think you can go as long as you want, Steam just has a minor issue where it deauthenticates for some reason (incidentally, I believe you can backup the user authorization files and reload them if this happens.)

      --
      "None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license." --John Milton
    9. Re:Sales lost? by VGPowerlord · · Score: 1

      Only a month? I've seen computers go for ~9 months w/o an internet connection still able to play steam games offline. Technically, I think you can go as long as you want, Steam just has a minor issue where it deauthenticates for some reason (incidentally, I believe you can backup the user authorization files and reload them if this happens.)

      I've never tried it, I was just going by what other people have said in the past.

      --
      GLaDOS for President 2016! "Well here we are again. It's always such a pleasure." -- GLaDOS, 2011
    10. Re:Sales lost? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Yes but that's you. Most of us aren't anal chucklefucks, and will use things like Steam because the DRM simply isn't invasive at all. Ubi's shit is different though.

    11. Re:Sales lost? by MoFoQ · · Score: 2

      sadly, except if you "patch" AC2/Driver:SF

      the irony is that the legit users have to resort to the pirated version to actually be able to play with less headaches or to be able to play at all.
      that's when you know DRM has epically failed

    12. Re:Sales lost? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      And don't kid yourself, you're never offline, you fucking nerds.

      That's a lie. My ISP is AT&T.

    13. Re:Sales lost? by Dunbal · · Score: 1

      Moreover I can buy a game and install it on my desktop and my laptop, and play it on either machine so long as I don't try to play both at once. Makes sense to me. Companies that feel they are entitled to a "per cpu" license can just go screw themselves.

      --
      Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
    14. Re:Sales lost? by Svartalf · · Score: 1

      And don't kid yourself, you're never offline, you fucking nerds.

      1) No, we're not. There's been loads of times where I couldn't do this or that because of limited access to the Internet. Especially out at the Horse Farm I'm trying to get started.

      2) You're on /. Pot. Kettle. Black.

      --
      I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
    15. Re:Sales lost? by RzTen1 · · Score: 1
      When was Steam dropping credit card numbers everywhere?

      My PS3 hasn't even been physically connected to the internet since the incident. Screw their Trophies, I can get most PSN games on the 360 or PC anyway.

      I also haven't bought anything from Ubisoft since the incident with Silent Hunter. I can wait with the hopes they'll eventually come around and patch all this crap out. I have to confess though: I did buy Assassins Creed 2 for the 360. I did, however, go out of my way to grab a used copy.

    16. Re:Sales lost? by Culture20 · · Score: 1

      And don't kid yourself, you're never offline, you fucking nerds.

      My Internet access at home was down for two weeks straight this month while I tried to convince my ISP that their dhcp server wasn't working ("we haven't heard any other complaints") then magically it was working again. If I would have been stupid enough to buy any DRM laden malware then I'd be without said games every time this happens (3 times a year, but not usually longer than 3 days for resolution).

    17. Re:Sales lost? by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      for this one I have to call bullshit.

      I laughed out loud. One out of 4 ain't bad, especially from an AC. It was the stereotype down to a T (and, er, I personally fit most of the stereotypes. Being a nerd is one of very few things I sit at the top of the bell curve in). AC should register a /. account.

    18. Re:Sales lost? by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      I've never tried it, I was just going by what other people have said in the past.

      Don't believe anything you hear, and only half of what you see.

    19. Re:Sales lost? by ericartman · · Score: 1

      LOL sounds like my cell phone, AT&T too

    20. Re:Sales lost? by jnork · · Score: 1

      *snerk*

      I just drop-kicked my AT&T DSL for Comcast cable. Sort of like leaving Lucifer to deal with Beelzebub, but at least I don't get 30-second delays on every web page and 4+ disconnections every night.

      --
      Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult.
    21. Re:Sales lost? by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      Being a nerd is one of very few things I sit at the top of the bell curve in

      Presumably we're not talking about maths nerds here?

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    22. Re:Sales lost? by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      I'm on the left side of the "math nerd" curve, and on the right of the "normal people" curve.

    23. Re:Sales lost? by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      Well at least you've learned the difference between "across" and "up"...

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    24. Re:Sales lost? by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      Hmmm, the median is usually at the top of the bell while the mean may be to the left or right (further down), correct? Take income, for example; I make just about the median income, so I sit at the top of the curve, while the rich and poor are on the right and left (with the left sloping upwards and right sloping downwards).

  5. Game developer == Hollywood studio by Compaqt · · Score: 5, Interesting

    While most software development companies (Microsoft as the biggest example) had long ago given up copy-protection for software, game development companies seemed to be a strange exception to the rule.

    But it's no anomaly: As games have drifted more toward the category of movies and away from the category of software, it's only natural that they've begun to see things the MAFIAA way.

    --
    I'm not a lawyer, but I play one on the Internet. Blog
    1. Re:Game developer == Hollywood studio by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      True, they are banded as entertainment industry and are shifting away towards MAFIAA more and more. Good thing is that there is a golden age for indie games. Ubisoft, Sony, Capcom are all on my blacklist and i'll be more than glad to add more.

    2. Re:Game developer == Hollywood studio by cwrinn · · Score: 2

      Microsoft gave up on copy-protection software? What universe do you live in? I still get checked for Windows Genuine Advantage anytime I install something from microsoft.com. Windows Games checks your serial numbers of games for pirated licenses, so on. Palladium Lives. :D

      --
      Here's a cookie... *psst* it's MAGIC
    3. Re:Game developer == Hollywood studio by BLToday · · Score: 2

      Microsoft giving up on copy protection???? You don't use Windows Vista/7, Office, Games for Windows, or any Microsoft product? I can't think of a MS product that doesn't have "xxxxx Genuine Advantage" or some sort of authentication.

    4. Re:Game developer == Hollywood studio by 3vi1 · · Score: 1

      I'm sure it was an honest mistake; the GP author probably simply uses pirated copies that remove WGA and serial checks.

      It's easy to ignore how much a pain in the ass Microsoft makes everything when you spend days looking for and installing pirated versions instead, and in the process turn yourself into a criminal. But, it's so much easier than spending an afternoon learning your way around the desktop of a free and perfectly legal alternative.

    5. Re:Game developer == Hollywood studio by zlogic · · Score: 4, Insightful

      WGA is not as bad (just a serial number check for installation of optional software). Windows Activation is much, much worse. If your PC dies then have fun calling support and proving that you're replacing a PC and not installing the same copy everywhere. Too many reinstalls? Suspicious activity. This is almost as bad as buying virtual stuff in online games.

    6. Re:Game developer == Hollywood studio by Compaqt · · Score: 1

      Oopsies, it's been a while since I've had to deal with that. Just for the record, Windows XP came with my HP, and I'm now using Ubuntu.

      Anyway, I still do think the more that games have moved from something a programmer would come up with to something a scriptwriter and other assorted creatives would come up with has something to do with the increasing affinity of game developers for MAFIAA thinking.

      --
      I'm not a lawyer, but I play one on the Internet. Blog
    7. Re:Game developer == Hollywood studio by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've never had an issue with that.. and I've reinstalled the same vista license (and repeated this with 7) multiple times on different machines with no issue. If i was reinstalling on the same hardware, there was no issue. If I installed it on different machine, I get sent to an automated system where I type in a code provided by the machine and the automated system replies with a code to manually type in. that's it, don't even have to talk to a real person in the entire process. Granted I only ever have 1 install working, and I only do this every few months at most, usually I do it annually. I'm sure if you do it often it's suspicious and they might have additional steps like talking to customer support, but I haven't had any issue otherwise.

    8. Re:Game developer == Hollywood studio by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Copyright infringement is not a criminal offense.

      But, it's so much easier than spending an afternoon learning your way around the desktop of a free and perfectly legal alternative.

      I'm a gamer. Do you have any suggestions that don't involve playing on inferior pseudo computers that use even more restrictive and annoying DRM? If not, then I'm either going to go with Windows or play Russian roulette with WINE and AMD's horrible video drivers.

      As much as I enjoy doing everything else on my Debian desktop, gaming on it is out of the question.

    9. Re:Game developer == Hollywood studio by flimflammer · · Score: 2

      "Proving your not installing the same copy everywhere" only involves them asking "Have you removed it from all other machines?" and you saying "Yes".

      I'd had to call Microsoft at least 7 times from 2007 to 2008 because I'd had really bad luck with hardware I'd purchased and had no issues whatsoever from Microsoft support regarding activation.

    10. Re:Game developer == Hollywood studio by petsounds · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure where you're getting "most" from. Adobe still has net-activation DRM on all of their software. Or a better example, the audio recording industry. Pro Tools, the industry "standard", has hardware DRM. A frack-ton of highly-acclaimed AU/VST plug-ins for Pro Tools, Cubase, Logic, and their ilk still use the ghetto iLok system, which is a USB dongle.

      I'm in no way supporting what Ubisoft is doing here, but it's not much worse than 80s games with their challenge-response systems ("What is the 3rd word on page 52 of the manual?"). I think the fact that everyone is outraged when someone like Ubisoft still has draconian DRM is more to do with the fact that DRM on games in general has gotten better. In the "old days" this kind of shit used to be the norm. Fortunately, Ubisoft is releasing games most people don't care to play anyway. (though I've purposely not bought any of the Assassin's Creed games because of it, and might have otherwise.)

    11. Re:Game developer == Hollywood studio by tuppe666 · · Score: 1

      As much as I enjoy doing everything else on my Debian desktop, gaming on it is out of the question

      You haven't been paying attention their is a plethora of exiting and innovative DRM free games coming out for Linux...they are just not from companies like Ubisoft.

      I had moved away from gaming simply when the PC became Console Ports/Sims viewer. The Original Humble Bundle Opened my eyes to indies, and I have not looked back, Loving Project Zomboid right now.

      There are a lot of good games in debian, best of lists are all over the internet.

    12. Re:Game developer == Hollywood studio by Kwpolska · · Score: 1

      Well, compare the WGA and most DRMs.
      Windows wants you to activate when you install it. A few minutes and you can get rid of your network connection (or you can call them). If you want some software, it's easy to use it, too. Legitimate customers are happy, pirates find ways to destroy it.
      What about the game DRMs? Requiring an Internet connection, fucking up LEGITIMATE customers. Pirates? They destroy it quickly and don't have any problems.
      (Licensed Windows XP + Arch Linux)

    13. Re:Game developer == Hollywood studio by Kwpolska · · Score: 1

      Nope. The manual was easy to do, you could even write down the words somewhere. The always-connected DRM is a bad idea. Consider going somewhere else, you have no Internet connection, you can't play your shitty games.

    14. Re:Game developer == Hollywood studio by rastos1 · · Score: 0

      If your PC dies then have fun calling support and proving that you're replacing a PC

      You are doing it wrong. At least based on MS intentions. You buy OEM License with the understanding that it goes away with HW failure. More so with soundcard, video card, NIC ... integrated on the motherboard. That is how it is designed to work. It is also a reason I don't run Windows if I have the option.

    15. Re:Game developer == Hollywood studio by kevinmenzel · · Score: 1

      That sounds like a reason not to buy an OEM license, not a reason not to use Windows... do you know how many cheap legal ways there are to get non-OEM licenses from MS? Even cheaper if you have more than one PC?

    16. Re:Game developer == Hollywood studio by rastos1 · · Score: 1

      do you know how many cheap legal ways there are to get non-OEM licenses from MS?

      Actually .. no, I don't. But I'm willing to be educated. Let's start with the preconditions: I'm not a student. Purchasing power parity in my country compared to US is 0.5. Average salary is 750€/month before taxes. Expenses for a household is at about 350€/month and person. Typical price for non-OEM Windows 7 Home is 170€. I'm eager to learn about cheap legal ways to get non-OEM license that is reasonable considering that numbers.

    17. Re:Game developer == Hollywood studio by petsounds · · Score: 1

      Until you lost the manual. Then you were screwed. No web sites to download the PDF from back then. In effect, it was a low-tech dongle. Always-connected DRM is a dongle as well; it's just that the "dongle" is a web server instead of a physical device or a piece of paper.

    18. Re:Game developer == Hollywood studio by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not true. For specialist professional software it's still a norm, usually with a dongle type solution. Then again, it's called licensing more than copy protection.
      See Steinberg, VSTi, iLock. I would assume things like autocad still use a dongle as well.

    19. Re:Game developer == Hollywood studio by camazotz · · Score: 1

      Microsoft? Really? I'll remember that next time I try to play one of my many games that are tied to Games for Windows Live.

    20. Re:Game developer == Hollywood studio by kevinmenzel · · Score: 1

      Well, have you checked out Technet if you don't do developement, or MSDN if you do? I suppose it depends on what you do with your computers, how many computers you use, etc, but both of those can be options that can drastically reduce the cost of Microsoft software if the license terms apply to your situation.

    21. Re:Game developer == Hollywood studio by MBC1977 · · Score: 1

      If you have children who are able to attend K-12 (using the US standard, since its what I know); then you can purchase Windows 7 Professional for 29.99. More if you want a backup DVD (though you can roll your own and save some money).

      --
      Regards,

      MBC1977,
    22. Re:Game developer == Hollywood studio by rastos1 · · Score: 1

      I've investigated this area. I'm not in US so there is no K-12, but there is "academic license". I spent several weeks e-mailing Microsoft, their affiliates, school, Ministry of education, ... Everyone was passing the problem to someone else like a hot potato. Also because the licensing programs is a jungle. One party claimed that there is no option to buy OS license in academic program (but Office can be bought for 50€). The other party claimed that OS can be "legalized" (wtf? does it mean that I "admit" that I pirated it?) for 130€.

    23. Re:Game developer == Hollywood studio by rastos1 · · Score: 1

      Let's say I'd like to have OS that can be installed on 2 computers and 1 virtual machine and can be used for development (i.e. tinkering with software, writing small utilities, proof of concepts, ... ). Technet subscription is 213€ plus VAT. MSDN subscription for OS is 750â plus VAT. That does not sound cheaper to me.

    24. Re:Game developer == Hollywood studio by kevinmenzel · · Score: 1

      Fair enough, I suppose. I don't have to pay tax on subscriptions (at least it's not charged on my bills from Microsoft), and when I did development, I lived in a house with a bunch of other people who also did development, and back then MSDN wasn't explicitly a 1 user license (not sure what it is now), so we just split MSDN OS between the 5 of us... across 6 laptops, 4 servers, and 7 desktops, it was definitely what I'd consider cheap. I still have so many computers that even if I were doing development, MSDN OS would still possibly be worth it, though as I no longer do, Technet Standard seems to be working just fine, and with Office, it makes it even more worth it. But that's across 3 desktops, and 2 laptops, and the per-year renewal is only $150 USD, which is pretty easy to afford for a Canadian these days thanks to the relative state of the Canadian and American economies.

  6. Reduction in Purchases too by armanox · · Score: 1

    I know that I stopped buying Ubisoft games when they first added this feature. It hurts the customers more then the pirates.

    --
    I'm starting to think GNU is the problem with "GNU/Linux" these days.
    1. Re:Reduction in Purchases too by frosty_tsm · · Score: 2

      I know that I stopped buying Ubisoft games when they first added this feature. It hurts the customers more then the pirates.

      They probably attributed the reduced sales to "this game sucked more than the last one."

      In all seriousness, suits forget that they are supposed to maximize profits (which often correlate to maximized revenue) and that it's better to have 1 more sale even if it means 1,000 more pirates (this ignores extra load on multiplayer servers, but CD Keys will keep the multiplayer-playing pirates from adding significant cost).

    2. Re:Reduction in Purchases too by tepples · · Score: 2

      A thousand more pirates are a thousand more people not having time to buy and play the other games that a given publisher publishes.

    3. Re:Reduction in Purchases too by Draek · · Score: 1

      Not really. You see, the Orwellian DRM was tried only *after* they tried putting games out there without any copy protection whatsoever, and saw sales figures tank as a result.

      Sucks to be us, but we've nobody to blame for this one other than our fellow gamers.

      --
      No problem is insoluble in all conceivable circumstances.
    4. Re:Reduction in Purchases too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They probably attributed the reduced sales to "this game sucked more than the last one."

      Well, since it's Ubisoft I have to agree. Each game has sucked more than the previous one.

  7. How does one measure the value of "nothing"? by CaptSlaq · · Score: 2

    Lost sales are just that: Nothing. They don't exist. There are unsold units, but just because you have unsold units doesn't mean you have lost sales.

    1. Re:How does one measure the value of "nothing"? by Anonymous+Psychopath · · Score: 2

      Lost sales are just that: Nothing. They don't exist. There are unsold units, but just because you have unsold units doesn't mean you have lost sales.

      No one knows how many freeloaders convert to customers when the ability to freeload is removed or reduced. It's certainly more than the zero you imply, but also certainly less than the 100% Ubisoft implies.

      From Ubisoft's perspective, anything more than zero is a win if they assume it will more than offset those who won't buy because of the DRM. Not a happy thought, but I suspect the numbers add up the right way for them.

      --

      Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.

    2. Re:How does one measure the value of "nothing"? by h4rr4r · · Score: 2

      How many sales are lost due to this DRM though?
      I avoid games with really bad DRM, steam is about as much as I would tolerate.

      If you convert 1000 pirates but lose 500 other buyers and had to spend another 501 players worth of profit on DRM you might as well not have done it.

    3. Re:How does one measure the value of "nothing"? by Sancho · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I know so many people who used to pirate music before music became DRM-free. Then Apple got through to the studios, and people still pirated because they didn't want to deal with iTunes. Finally, when Amazon started offering mp3s and no crappy software to download, 8/11 of the people I still keep in touch with switched. There were two big changes: they'd all grown up and could now afford music, and the music was easy to buy, download, and use. No messing with bloated programs, no DRM restricting where you could play the songs, no problems.

      I feel largely the same way about movies and TV. Right now, I use Netflix and Hulu with smatterings of Redbox to get my video media, as well as OTA signals. I'd buy digital downloads of movies and TV shows from Amazon in a heartbeat if I could play them anywhere, any time, without an Internet connection. I've been tempted many times to buy them anyway, however because they won't play on my iPad or offline laptop, I won't. I could buy from Apple, but those videos won't play on my laptop at all. So I won't buy there, either.

      I genuinely want to give these people my money. They just don't (yet) offer a product I'm willing to pay for. So instead, I use free or cheap options that almost certainly don't help them.

    4. Re:How does one measure the value of "nothing"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And, the people who are currently as old *now* as you were *then*?

      I suppose mostly it's harddrives and usbs for friends, and whatever is out there on the torrent for free...

    5. Re:How does one measure the value of "nothing"? by dissy · · Score: 2

      From Ubisoft's perspective, anything more than zero is a win if they assume it will more than offset those who won't buy because of the DRM. Not a happy thought, but I suspect the numbers add up the right way for them.

      Personally I somehow doubt they would announce anything at all different from what they just announced, no matter what the numbers are.

      Sales up? "We did the right thing! Go us!"
      Sales down? "We did the right thing! Go us!"
      Piracy up and sales non-existent? "We did the right thing! Go us!"
      Cat died and car blew up in the parking lot? "We did the right thing! Go us!"

    6. Re:How does one measure the value of "nothing"? by Draek · · Score: 0

      From Ubisoft's perspective, anything more than zero is a win if they assume it will more than offset those who won't buy because of the DRM. Not a happy thought, but I suspect the numbers add up the right way for them.

      They don't even have to assume, they already tried the opposite approach.

      Kind of sad to think that we'd have gotten rid of the nasty trash that's DRM by now if only gamers had actually bought the game instead of pirating it shamelessly, but I guess it's one of the problems of being the rare adult in a teenager-oriented market.

      --
      No problem is insoluble in all conceivable circumstances.
    7. Re:How does one measure the value of "nothing"? by Nyder · · Score: 1

      I know so many people who used to pirate music before music became DRM-free. .../p>

      WTF are you talking about?

      What you are saying there, is that music used to not be DRM free, and people would still pirate it.

      Here's a clue for ya stupid.

      Music was DRM free in the beginning. It wasn't until the last 10 years that shitbrains started to put DRM on music, because they were finding that CD's provided exact copies of the songs, unlike recording a LP or Cassette tape. Then with the advent of iTunes, we started getting a lot of DRM on some online music.

      But there was always sources for the same music without DRM on it.

      So are you like 14 years old and think that music started with iTunes?

      --
      Be seeing you...
    8. Re:How does one measure the value of "nothing"? by bedouin · · Score: 1

      Finally, when Amazon started offering mp3s and no crappy software to download

      I haven't downloaded anything from them in a while, but last time I did I seem to remember using their downloader.

      I could buy from Apple, but those videos won't play on my laptop at all.

      Well, obviously they will in iTunes if you're using Windows. Snce Apple dumped all the Carbon code it feels like a new app in OS X. I don't know if that switch affects or even trickled down to Windows though.

      Apps that support FairPlay (even via a plugin) should be able to play them as well, like Safari and QuickTime.

    9. Re:How does one measure the value of "nothing"? by Sardokaur · · Score: 1

      Too bad that the opposite approach was with a bad game. Had they tried it with a more popular game, it would have been more useful for info.

  8. Fail by SpinningCone · · Score: 1

    Every pirated copy is a sale lost. therefore any apparent reduction means sales are up.

    duh.

    on a side note i've been boycotting Ubisoft since before Spore came out due to crap like this.

    1. Re:Fail by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      on a side note i've been boycotting Ubisoft since before Spore came out due to crap like this.

      Please never mention this disappointment of what could have been an incredible ground-breaking game again.

    2. Re:Fail by bedouin · · Score: 1

      Wasn't Spore EA, or is there so a Ubisoft relationship I don't know about?

  9. It's their product by grimmjeeper · · Score: 2

    If they want to stop their nose bleed by putting a tourniquet around their neck, that's their business.

  10. just a thought... by MichaelusWF · · Score: 4, Insightful

    but perhaps they should spend more time and energy on making games that are worth paying for, and less time and energy on making people regret paying for their games?

    1. Re:just a thought... by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 1

      What I don't get is why they think they'll make more money this way. In the olden days, they'd sell games and never hear from the customer again. These days, they need servers and people on phones to authorize people to use the copy they paid for. Since they have to pay for these services, now every satisfied customer is drilling away at that profit the earned yonks ago.

      I honestly can't believe with all the money grubbing these companies do this is the approach they took.

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    2. Re:just a thought... by zlogic · · Score: 1

      Servers usually go down after people stop buying the game.
      Why waste money on something that doesn't generate as much cash as it used to? For example, Microsoft shut down the PlaysForSure DRM server, without refundung puchased songs. If you're lucky, the vendor will create a patch to remove DRM once the servers go down.

    3. Re:just a thought... by artor3 · · Score: 1

      The sad thing is that they do make games worth paying for. They make Assassin's Creed and Far Cry and Splinter Cell and Beyond Good & Evil and more. They make lots of innovative titles that are well worth playing. And yet I don't buy their games any more, because the copy protection just got to be too much of a pain in the ass.

      They don't need to spend more time working on their games. They just need to drop the copy protection. It's a case of addition by subtraction if ever there was one.

    4. Re:just a thought... by carou · · Score: 1

      Assassins Creed II had a reputation of being one of the best games in years. Yet, when the Mac version came out I didn't buy it (a) because of the DRM, (b) because of reports of sucky performance. Months later, Steam got it from a fraction of the original price and I finally caved. So although my purchase might be counted in the sales figures for this "successful DRM", actually Ubisoft got much less money from me than if the DRM were absent.

      Unfortunately it turns out my fears on (b) turned out to be justified (it's a Transgaming port, after all...) It's buggy too: running on a laptop it can't even accept input from USB keyboards. Ubisoft tech support said: "At this point in time there is no plant for a patch to change this. I wish there was enough space on the game box to write all this, but i will defiantly escalate your query to head office." Never mind that the game box was Steam's web page with esentailly unlimited space, in what universe does it make more sense to advertise your bugs than to fix them? I just wish I could have been there to see that defiant escalation...

      I agree that Ubisoft frequently make good games. The only trouble is that they have just about the worst QA in the industry.

    5. Re:just a thought... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What I don't get is why they think they'll make more money this way. In the olden days, they'd sell games and never hear from the customer again. These days, they need servers and people on phones to authorize people to use the copy they paid for. Since they have to pay for these services, now every satisfied customer is drilling away at that profit the earned yonks ago.

      I honestly can't believe with all the money grubbing these companies do this is the approach they took.

      That's because modern business is retarded by design. When "the future" consists entirely of the next quarter's earnings report then shit which makes money right now (They think DRM works so it goes here) is good regardless of long term expenses which won't kick in until the quarter after this one. [the manager is probably hoping for promotion so it won't be their problem by then]

  11. Reduction in piracy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Or an overall lack of interest? Ubisoft hasn't been putting much good out for a while now.

    1. Re:Reduction in piracy? by Dunbal · · Score: 1

      Not since they bought SSI I think. Yeah ok IL-76 was decent back in the day, despite the lack of a real campaign generator.

      --
      Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
    2. Re:Reduction in piracy? by Dunbal · · Score: 1

      il-2, doh, dunno what I was thinking. Maybe got confused with "1946" somehow.

      --
      Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
  12. It works! by Leslie43 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Ubisoft has created the perfect DRM system.
    Combine horrible DRM with horrible gameplay and no one will pirate it. Of course no one will play it either, but hey, it's the perfect DRM system.

    I almost feel as though I should be thanking them for all the time and money they are saving me.

    1. Re:It works! by wdsci · · Score: 1

      I don't know about "perfect" - after all, if you never create the game in the first place, it will be literally impossible for anyone to pirate it. Plus, you can't beat the production budget of a game that doesn't exist.

    2. Re:It works! by selven · · Score: 1

      With the way things are going, they'll eventually remarket their games as a computer cracking hobbyist product: we sell you a nice shiny piece of DRM to break, and because we love our customers as a free bonus if you succeed you'll have a nice cute minigame at the end!

    3. Re:It works! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Indeed. I have a CD with *PERFECT* DRM here. If you don't have a key, the data on it can't be distinguished from random noise. And we forgot the key. So nobody will ever be able to make any copy of it. (Not even on a display or into his brain.)

  13. I call baloney by JustNiz · · Score: 1

    >> a Ubisoft representative said the company has seen "a clear reduction in piracy of our titles which required a persistent online connection,"

    Notice how he was careful to avoid mentioning the corresponding reduction in actual sales.

    Anyway I think his statement must be blowing smoke. I personally would never buy any product with such restrictive DRM, but say I had bought the game, I for one would have also immediately downloaded a hacked version just so I could play it offline, and so I could play after they turn off their DRM server when the product is no longer making them money. It seems to me, overly restrictive DRM would necessarily cause more piracy not less.

    1. Re:I call baloney by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They could prevent people from playing cracked versions by moving critical but non-performance-sensitive parts of the code into the cloud running on Ubisoft servers. In order to play it offline with a crack, people would have to write alternate versions of those functions which isn't really feasible.

      In the future, when we all have super fast internet connections, there's a decent chance that companies will only allow internet streaming of their games a la OnLive. If you don't have internet or the publisher goes out of business, tough luck.

    2. Re:I call baloney by tlhIngan · · Score: 1

      Anyway I think his statement must be blowing smoke. I personally would never buy any product with such restrictive DRM, but say I had bought the game, I for one would have also immediately downloaded a hacked version just so I could play it offline, and so I could play after they turn off their DRM server when the product is no longer making them money. It seems to me, overly restrictive DRM would necessarily cause more piracy not less.

      What they do is simple. You advertise it as storing your game saves In The Cloud(tm). Sorta like SteamPlay where the game saves are uploaded to the server.

      Except in Ubisoft's case, if the game save server isn't available, then no game saving is possible. Thus initial "offline play" basically consists of running through the game and hoping to not die (which requires reloading a game save) as well as keeping the game running on the PC for the duration of play.

      So, it's DRM, but it can be spun around as "Cloud Saves - pick up and play your game anywhere on any PC".

      The beauty of this DRM scheme is, well, nothing needs to be installed on the PC to handle it - no special drivers, no licensing agents, nothing. The game starts up, connects to your account, and accesses your save on the remote side. Plus, it can be advertised as a feature.

    3. Re:I call baloney by Martin+Blank · · Score: 1

      I thought the always-on DRM stopped the game from being played mid-stream if the Internet connection was lost for more than a brief period of time. At least that's what I remembered from earlier discussions of it.

      --
      You can never go home again... but I guess you can shop there.
    4. Re:I call baloney by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Games for Windows Live seems to be like that, although as usual Microsoft's terrible marketing and lack of explanatory dialog messages makes it hard to tell.

      At least for some games (not universally, and it doesn't really tell you in advance), starting a game while signed into GFWL seems to tie your save games to your Live profile. From there on, you have to be online to resume games from your Live profile. You can play in offline mode, but if you made the mistake of starting the game with GFWL on, you won't be able to access any of those saves.

    5. Re:I call baloney by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They could prevent people from playing cracked versions by moving critical but non-performance-sensitive parts of the code into the cloud running on Ubisoft servers. In order to play it offline with a crack, people would have to write alternate versions of those functions which isn't really feasible.

      you seem to underestimate the will of cracking groups to prove idiotic DRM schemes don't work.

    6. Re:I call baloney by Draek · · Score: 1

      It seems to me, overly restrictive DRM would necessarily cause more piracy not less.

      That's what they thought three years ago, they tested that theory, and it failed.

      --
      No problem is insoluble in all conceivable circumstances.
    7. Re:I call baloney by kyrio · · Score: 1

      Stop linking your retarded link. The game didn't sell because the controls were too complex.

    8. Re:I call baloney by Draek · · Score: 1

      The... what? have you even played a Prince of Persia game in your life? I've heard "easy", "linear" and more than a few that disliked the art style, but you're the first person I've ever seen calling PoP 08 "complex".

      Besides, it wasn't the only game: the first Assassin's Creed game also had only a disk check on the retail version and relegated itself to whatever DRM, if any, was used on DD stores and Ubisoft still saw a sales increase with AC2 and AC:B. I'd love to see your excuse for *that* one.

      --
      No problem is insoluble in all conceivable circumstances.
    9. Re:I call baloney by DamienNightbane · · Score: 0

      WoW has had people running private servers since the beginning.

      Hell, the Pokemon community has managed to reverse engineer and hijack the wireless communications of the DS to create their own private GTS servers for sending pokemon to and from their own PCs or distributing event pokemon.

      What makes you think that the shenanigans you suggested couldn't be easily circumvented by more serious crackers? They already rewrite a significant portion of the code to get around the DRM anyway.

    10. Re:I call baloney by JustNiz · · Score: 1

      You can't necessarily deduce AC2 sales > AC sales must be down to DRM.
      Maybe AC2 was simply a better game than AC?
      Maybe it took until AC2 came out before the AC series became a meme, or just for it to gain more popularity?

    11. Re:I call baloney by JustNiz · · Score: 1

      I too believe I recently read on some gaming websites thats how it works.

  14. Time for some Activism? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Ubisoft would probably want other developers to get on board with this scheme so that it makes it feel like what they're doing is not wrong. To that end, it's conceivable that they would lie about their success or failure in order to sell it.

    Maybe it's time we took a harder stance against companies like this; in essence they're reducing games into short-term playable, non-ownable rentals. That 'always-online' game won't work after Ubisoft takes down the servers or goes out of business. And they hold ultimate power in whether you can or cannot play, despite your purchase. You'd better not say anything bad about them in forums.

    So, we need to fight back against this. Make it an issue; single them out for criticism. Make sure people know the issues.

    1. Re:Time for some Activism? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As for knowing right from wrong, I had a friend who worked at a games publisher in the early to mid 2000-2005?, one of the oldest computer games companies. That place was a den of piracy for competing companies' games. When he whispered about the irony of it, someone said "Why should we strengthen our competitors with more sales?" He was briefly transferred to a another publisher that was bought out by the first one and it was the same story, games passed around. I not sure it's still like this today though, with the rise of Steam, but it still cracks me up.

  15. this a triumph! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This was a triumph!
    I'm making a note here:
    "huge success!!"

    It's hard to overstate
    My satisfaction.

    Ubisoft:
    We do what me must
    Because we can.

    For the good of all of us.
    Except the ones who are buying our games.

    1. Re:this a triumph! by Killall+-9+Bash · · Score: 1

      But there's no sense crying
      over every lost sale.
      You just keep on trying
      'till the company fails.

      Software engineers are pissed
      Target release date's been missed
      Are there people who still buy our games?

      --
      "Prediction: within 10 years, Windows will be a Linux distribution." Me, 7-6-2016
  16. Cause and Effect by SilverHatHacker · · Score: 1

    I would warrant they are seeing a reduction in piracy because no one wants the game, not because your DRM is scaring them off.

    --
    Funny may not give karma, but +5 Informative never made anyone snort coffee out their nose.
  17. As the Lorax would say... by davevr · · Score: 1

    Unless people like you care a whole awful lot
    and instead of buying DRM'd games they do not
    nothing is going to get better. It's not.

    Based on the history of fan rage vs. fan action, I think Ubisoft will do just fine.

    1. Re:As the Lorax would say... by Svartalf · · Score: 1

      I'm disinclined to buy anything they're putting out, console or otherwise, with this tripe included in the product they're selling. I can't imagine I'm the only one.

      --
      I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
  18. Only the pirates will play their games? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So, then, the only people that would play their games will be actually only the pirates and some lost lambs!!!!

  19. Details? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Anyone know what game they are talking about? And if the DRM truly prevented piracy? I don't play many games these days, but my general sense has been that every game ever released has been cracked shortly after, and that the cracked versions usually come minus all the inconveniences.

    I don't really care one way or the other, but its hard to believe that their scheme really works (is there any teenager who does not have a friend who can explain bittorrent?) or that it is fair (the paying customers get the worse experience.)

  20. How do you measure success? by WiiVault · · Score: 1

    Seems to me it is impossible to measure the lost sales caused by their insane always-on DRM system. PC gamers are a fairly savvy crowd, so I doubt its insignificant. Just seeing your games less torrented doesn't say shit about potential lost sales.

  21. They measure cost of bad press by lost sales by LordZardoz · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Most game companies (Ubisoft and EA for certain, Activision and the rest highly likely) have API's that have the app phone home and send metrics / telemetry data back about the usage stats. This is even done in games that have no multi-player component. Some of this is done for determining how much ad revenue is generated from ingame advertisements. Some of it is just marketing and research data. (ie: If only 2% of users actually use the mode that took 15% of the development resources to create, chances are that the mode will be dropped or at least not developed any further. If 90% of users die in the room with 13 snipers, they may patch the game to remove some snipers). I suspect that some portion of this data includes unique user id / cd keys.

    I would expect that titles with a great deal of piracy are somehow detected by this. If they know that they have actually sold X units through retail, and they have X+Y connections, then the number of pirated instances is Y.

    Lets say a game without this DRM has 150 000 users, and that 75000 users are legit. If they are taking a beating in the press, but the number of legit users has increased, the system is a success. Ubisoft is happier to have 80 000 legit users in a pool of 90 000 total users, even if they drove off 46% of the total user base to do it.

    Losing a user means nothing except in subscription based games. Losing a sale means a whole lot more.

    END COMMUNICATION

    1. Re:They measure cost of bad press by lost sales by ccguy · · Score: 1

      Losing a sale means a whole lot more.

      Well, what you described doesn't measure the number of sales lost in future Ubisoft games by pissed off customers who did buy the current game (and playing it legally).

      I don't know why Ubisoft assume that where there's a console there must be an internet connection. Some of us when going on vacation (beach house of whatever) take the console with us to play whenever we're bored *precisely* because we don't have an internet connection there (or it's mobile and just used for basic stuff).

    2. Re:They measure cost of bad press by lost sales by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I would expect that titles with a great deal of piracy are somehow detected by this. If they know that they have actually sold X units through retail, and they have X+Y connections, then the number of pirated instances is Y.

      Why would the pirated copies phone home at all? In fact, if the companies are making the same assumption you are, and none of the pirated copies are phoning home then they would come to a similar conclusion that their anti-piracy code must be AMAZING! When in fact it's just a headache for everyone not pirating it, and the pirates are actually enjoying a better quality of life.

      Because of this flawed reasoning however you now have a feedback look that's just going to propagate this horrid DRM to more titles, while the pirates go on about their merry way.

    3. Re:They measure cost of bad press by lost sales by Baloroth · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Given that I am not aware of a single DRM system that hasn't been cracked, online requirement or no, I somehow doubt that the DRM is what is reducing piracy. I'm more inclined to think it's the shitty quality of their games making people not even want to pirate it. Just a thought.

      Or maybe it just looks like they have reduced piracy, since the new cracks stop the game from even phoning home (they'd have to to crack it), while the old ones didn't. Just a thought.

      --
      "None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license." --John Milton
    4. Re:They measure cost of bad press by lost sales by Shompol · · Score: 1

      The 70,000 not legit users they are driving away represent both Goodwill and potential future sales. If the game is good, they will both tell all their friends and can buy some game in the future (when they have more money and less time for obtaining hacked versions).

      Having not legit users costs the company nothing. Driving them away costs upkeep of the DRM scheme. When DRM breaks down and locks off legit customers, that's even more lost goodwill and future sales.

      So there is a tradeoff between a slight revenue increase today and a significant loss of goodwill and sales in the future. Of course, for the management types, the slight increase "now" trumps everything in the future, when they might not be part of the company.

    5. Re:They measure cost of bad press by lost sales by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It took several months to crack the Settlers VII, a couple weeks for Assassin's Creed 2, and years for Cubase >3. Sometimes the DRM just has to be "good enough". If you put in 100 random bugs throughout the game campaign that only exist in the pirated version (I do realize these spill over) it becomes significantly harder/more time consuming to crack, and most publishers nowadays only really care about avoiding pre-releases and 1st day cracks, gamers are impatient and entitled, if you can't get the game you want right now, some of them will actually go and buy it.

    6. Re:They measure cost of bad press by lost sales by Svartalf · · Score: 1

      It doesn't work over-well when you factor in used sales there...

      --
      I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
    7. Re:They measure cost of bad press by lost sales by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Given that I am not aware of a single DRM system that hasn't been cracked,

      What about Steam? As far as I'm aware, their DRM works pretty well. The only bad part of it is that you can't resell your games and you lose them if you're caught hacking (or if it "thinks" you're hacking, but they usually compensate players for that).

    8. Re:They measure cost of bad press by lost sales by neoprint · · Score: 1

      As far as I know, H.A.W.X. 2 hasn't been cracked yet. Whether this is to do with the quality of the DRM or the quality of the game I am unable to say

    9. Re:They measure cost of bad press by lost sales by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I always block any game that tries to phone home.

    10. Re:They measure cost of bad press by lost sales by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lets say a game without this DRM has 150 000 users, and that 75000 users are legit. If they are taking a beating in the press, but the number of legit users has increased, the system is a success. Ubisoft is happier to have 80 000 legit users in a pool of 90 000 total users, even if they drove off 46% of the total user base to do it.

      Losing a user means nothing except in subscription based games. Losing a sale means a whole lot more.

      Only if you completely ignore the network effects. A pirate who shows the game to 5 other people who never heard of it and 2 of them buy it has made them some money where they otherwise would have got no money. This especially hurts in maintaining and growing the customer base; a lot of pirates are kids without the money to spend, if they pirate the games and like them then you have got a decent chance of getting future sales from them otherwise you get nothing and they go elsewhere and you will have to try and tempt them to you after they have passed the nostalgia threshold and have become jaded. Your existing customers don't last forever either, going elsewhere, giving up or just plain dropping dead so unless you have another plan to deal with this then you may successfully shrink yourself into a corner.

    11. Re:They measure cost of bad press by lost sales by DamienNightbane · · Score: 0

      I dunno much about the way that Steam does things, but when the Pokemon GTS was hacked, and then hacked again for B/W, the DS contacting the Nintendo servers was easily solved by just changing the dns for the console to point to your own PC where you're running a dummy authentication server. Steam could probably be defeated the same way.

    12. Re:They measure cost of bad press by lost sales by camazotz · · Score: 1

      I'll go out on a limb and suggest quality is not the issue; the games in question are generally very well regarded (Assassin's Creed, at least). So if the pirates have simply rendered themselves invisible to Ubisoft, does this mean that they are continuing to harm legitimate users by giving game publishers the incorrect appearance of successful DRM? Put another way...the DRM appears to be working, so it will continue on, insuring that the legitimate player base will consist only of those willing to participate & pay money for the DRM scheme as presented, all while liberating the pirates to play away, invisible to Ubisoft's roaming Eye of Sauron? There is no side here I can take. I'll continue to not buy and not pirate games with this sort of DRM, problem solved. I don't buy....company does not get my dollars; won't be noticed by them since this is not apparently the usual way to vote against bad behavior with publishers; I don't pirate, so I don't contribute to the root problem in the first place...but again, its purely for personal conscience, since apparently the norm is to pirate the hell out of everything and let the brain rationalize why later on.

    13. Re:They measure cost of bad press by lost sales by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "I would expect that titles with a great deal of piracy are somehow detected by this. If they know that they have actually sold X units through retail, and they have X+Y connections, then the number of pirated instances is Y."

      Y could equally mean "preowned".

  22. Re:They can take that c___ and blow it out their a by Hsien-Ko · · Score: 3, Funny

    ...take that crack and blow it out their authentication?

  23. Making Piracy Preferable by farbles · · Score: 4, Insightful

    When Ubisoft makes it so a pirated version of their game provides better functionality and convenience than their own product, it is safe to say that they are NOT GETTING IT.

    Gee, Ubisoft, I can give you money and be stuck with crippling and inconvenient DRM, or for free I can download a nice clean cracked copy that will play at once conveniently whenever and wherever I want it to. Decisions, decisions.

    I blame MBAs. There is something in their sense of entitlement and smug assurance they know the best no matter what the facts may dictate that leads them to live out The Peter Principle and rise to levels of authority where they have no competence. I'll betcha there's some MBA or group of MBAs telling Ubisoft to stand firm on the DRM.

    In the meantime, Valve will take my money without the crazy bullshit DRM and I can play my games even if the Internet is down. If I want to try an Ubisoft game, I'll know where to go.

    1. Re:Making Piracy Preferable by gottspeed · · Score: 1

      That depends on how you look at it. Humans are part of nature, and that belongs to everybody. Its only by virtue of an assumed good faith agreement that I don't enjoy property or any other product of the earth without permission. Ownership includes both access AND control, and once information is released, these are no longer exclusive.

    2. Re:Making Piracy Preferable by strikethree · · Score: 3, Insightful

      In the meantime, Valve will take my money without the crazy bullshit DRM and I can play my games even if the Internet is down. If I want to try an Ubisoft game, I'll know where to go.

      I keep seeing this meme being propagated... Have you ever seriously tried to use steam in offline mode? I have. It does not work.

      Yes, if you have had an internet connection recently, it *may* work. Let me tell you about my offline experiences with steam though.

      I was being deployed to a remote location so I ensured that steam and all of my games were updated properly and set it up to work in offline mode. After a few weeks of travel and "settling in" I finally had a chance to play some Half Life 2 so I launched steam and it said that it had to update itself. WTF? How could it possibly know there was an update since it could not communicate with anything? Fuck me. So I eventually fly out to a less remote location and am able to use a satellite terminal and the steam client downloaded a 200 megabyte update for itself. Over satellite. WTF? Is the steam client even 200 megabytes in size? What the hell? Okay... so it is updated again, offline mode tested, and I go remote again. The next time I open the steam client, it said some sort of ticket was invalid and that I needed to connect again before I could play.

      I am no longer as remote and I have a 40mbit pipe to the internet now. The steam client is constantly updating itself with hundreds of megabytes of data. I have no idea what it is doing or why and I have no idea how all of the bandwidth usage is making my offline games any better. All I know is that steam adds no value to my single player games and that offline mode, while theoretically possible, is not actually viable.

      I am glad you are satisfied with steam. I have no intention of telling other people how to spend their cash. The DRM is far too onerous for me though. I will not buy any more games that require/use steam.

      strike

      --
      "Someone needs to talk to the tree of liberty about its ghoulish drinking problem." by ohnocitizen
    3. Re:Making Piracy Preferable by Kjella · · Score: 1

      My impression of Steam's offline mode is that it's designed to work through a network outage or a long weekend trip. If it lasts longer than 3 days like your "after a few weeks of travel" then it'll throw up $random_excuse why it will not work. I can understand their business reasons for doing so, or we'd see pirate versions where Steam was forced into a "we're on a remote mission in the Antarctic and won't have Internet for the next six months" mode. They will always make sure there's some catch to make sure it must connect to the mothership on a regular basis even in offline mode. It pleases the masses, but if you're really on a remote location and need offline gaming to work for an extended period of time, good luck with that. I read that that some people have been able to do it, but it seems a crapshoot every time. And that's on Windows, it never worked at all under WINE. I could play Steam games in online mode but offline never worked at all.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    4. Re:Making Piracy Preferable by strikethree · · Score: 1

      I can understand their business reasons for doing so

      I understand their reasons for doing so as well. My point is that it is DRM that gets in the way while the OP was saying that it is a harmless "out of your way" DRM because offline mode is available.

      strike

      --
      "Someone needs to talk to the tree of liberty about its ghoulish drinking problem." by ohnocitizen
    5. Re:Making Piracy Preferable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      With Steam Valve IS in control of your machine and games, and Steam has DRM. Just think about the "preload" feature. If it wasnt for DRM and encryption that feature wouldnt have been implemented.

      It's just, on the average, less irritating than other similar typed softwares and integrates more features, and Valve havent exercised their power yet to a degree most people notice or care about.

    6. Re:Making Piracy Preferable by ElusiveJoe · · Score: 1

      In the meantime, Valve will take my money without the crazy bullshit DRM

      You're either a troll or just stupid. Steam was first online DRM scheme, which caused much annoyance when it was brought to market with Half-life 2 and the new Counter-Strike. Didn't stop pirates, though.

    7. Re:Making Piracy Preferable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Whether you agree or not, Nature belongs to whoever can defend the bit of it they claim (or have someone defend it on their behalf), that is the way the animal kingdom works and it extends to humans.

    8. Re:Making Piracy Preferable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      so did you contact steam support to get it fixed, or are you just whinging about it on the internet and hoping it will magically fix itself?

  24. Decreased piracy, but what about SALES ? by Superken7 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Note how NOTHING is said about sales, only that piracy has decreased. Less piracy does not equal more sales, in fact it could have been less piracy AND less sales (or just average sales).

    The most important data was missing :P

    1. Re:Decreased piracy, but what about SALES ? by Mashiki · · Score: 1

      I'd have to go look on BN, but I seem to remember that Ubi's last 3 quarters were losses on all fronts except PC games. Which was slightly profitable.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    2. Re:Decreased piracy, but what about SALES ? by MimeticLie · · Score: 1
      Where have you seen them break down profit by platform? Looking at their official numbers, all I was able to find was the distribution of sales by platform (page 4):

      Nintendo DS 4%
      Nintendo 3 DS 1%
      PC 11%
      PLAYSTATION®3 19%
      PSP 2%
      Wii 27%
      XBOX 360 36%
      Other 1%
      TOTAL 100%

      Of note is that the PC figure was 7% for Q1 last year, up to 11% this year. So the PC, while not comprising most of Ubisoft's sales, has been increasing in marketshare even while their DRM was on hold.

      I would be interested in seeing a profit breakdown by platform, though. With some publishers saying that 90% of their sales are digital, it wouldn't surprise me if PC games are making more profit.

    3. Re:Decreased piracy, but what about SALES ? by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Well we're trusting them even with that statement. My last Ubisoft game launches a local server to register the game against when it starts. I doubt the fact that they came up with a DRM scheme that was cracked in the week of the release has somehow contributed to a reduction of piracy.

    4. Re:Decreased piracy, but what about SALES ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's relative to other platforms, it doesn't say anything about whether it has increased or decreased in absolute terms.

  25. Re:Pirating hurts Gamers. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    When will people realize, when you decline to purchase a game due to restrictive DRM, opting instead to pirate it, you are hurting other gamers. Your decision to pirate the game, rather than not play it at all, contributes to the justification for these companies to come up with even more intrusive DRM, to combat the "rampant" piracy of their titles. As long as piracy occurs on any title, those studios will blame sales shortfalls on piracy. Not the ever decreasing length, or quality, of the their games. Not the decision to kill dedicated servers, cap player limits, or release slapped together console-ports. Not the required third-party multiplayer platforms (GFWL, Gamespy, etc.).

    They see things in one context: If there be pirates, there be demand, we just need more DRM.

    What an incredible stretch in denial you've made. I assume you are someone who buys these games.

    Let me inform you:

    The gamers buying games with restrictive DRM (e.g. you) are the ones hurting gamers, because they're actually monetarily supporting the studios putting this bullshit out.

    It's time to rethink your actions. Get Ubisoft and co. out of your ass, stand up straight, and pull up your pants.

  26. Re:They can take that c___ and blow it out their a by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hint: Kentucky Fried Movie

  27. BOYCOTT UBISOFT by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If by success you mean the worst thing to ever happen to PC gaming...

    I long ago declared I will never buy a product with this DRM, and I've stuck to it. Even though there are games I *know* I would have purchased otherwise. I'm also doing everything I can to convince my friends of the same. This is a cancer.

  28. The Second Law of Public Relations by jalefkowit · · Score: 3, Interesting

    ... is: never admit failure. Just talk about what a wonderful success whatever you're being asked about has been. If the product really is a failure, keep talking about its success until the people who make the decisions get around to canceling it. After that, if you're asked about it, dismiss it as yesterday's news and change the subject to what wonderful successes your other products are.

    The Mac Cube, for instance, was a major stinkburger. Did Apple ever say anything to that effect publicly? Nope. They were always bright and sunny about how well the Cube was doing, until the day they killed it. At which point inquiries about the failure of the Cube were answered with glittering stories of how well their other Macs were selling.

    In other words -- what a company's spokesperson says about the success or failure of something like a DRM system is meaningless. They will always say it is a great success. The only way to learn the truth is to watch whether the company puts more effort and money behind it, or less.

    1. Re:The Second Law of Public Relations by tunapez · · Score: 1

      In other words -- what a company's spokesperson says about the success or failure of something like a DRM system is meaningless.

      No truer words have been typed on /.

      'DRM system' could be substituted infinitely and still hold true.

      --
      Imagination drew in bold strokes, instantly serving hopes and fears, while knowledge advanced by slow increments...
  29. Not new for Ubisoft by Rog7 · · Score: 1

    I recall Ubisoft talking big about copy-protection a decade ago, in particular when they acquired Blue Byte and Thomas Hertzler went on several rants about how strong copy-protections (DRM in today-speak) were the difference between good sales versus poor sales. What a horrible way to assume the behaviour of your customers. I tried to fire up a few of those games recently and the copy-protections made the compatibility issues even more problematic. As a customer, they sold me less of a product and as of today, I'm less happy with Ubisoft than I would be with other publishers.

    Now I'm not the boycotting type, so what happens in this scenario is I'm less happy with them, so I want to spend less. Instead of purchasing their games upon release, I wait for the discounts. I save my premium purchases for publishers who either use no DRM, or DRM that is less restrictive. I'm really thrilled with publishers that enable their games to still work years down the road. Valve for instance.

    What they've managed to do with this persistent love of intrusive and restrictive DRM, is successfully make my purchases less about the quality of the game and more about the DRM. Self-fulfilling prophecy.

  30. It's been successful in keeping me from buying by BLToday · · Score: 1

    It's been successful in keeping me from buying their games. I think the last Ubisoft game I bought was FarCry 2 and that was at Christmas when it was on sale on Steam.

  31. There has been worse schemes in the past by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Go to page 12 of the manual, paragraph 5, sentence 3, word 2 and enter it here ________". Or even better you have to put the CD/DVD in the drive (guess you are screwed if you don't have one) for the game to play.

    The problem is if something is free, people will pretty much take it whether they really want it or not. If you have to pay for it, you will only take it if you really want it.

    For instance, on my iPod Touch I have over 8 screens of apps installed on it. On a regular basis I might use 12 of them. I have the Groupon app, and I don't even have a Groupon account. Some people are also digital hoarders. They have 3 terabytes of movies they have downloaded with a 'street' value of say $10,000 if they were to go out and buy the DVD at retail. Most of the time they never even watch them, or would even have time to watch them.

    Make a great game, make the price reasonable, and people will buy it.

    1. Re:There has been worse schemes in the past by PitaBred · · Score: 1

      So... what exactly are the publishers losing to those digital packrats? The ones that wouldn't have it if it wasn't free?

    2. Re:There has been worse schemes in the past by BLToday · · Score: 1

      The lose absolutely nothing from digital packrats. They only use the it from the paying customer that don't want to deal with crap like it. DRM is acceptable to me if it doesn't treat me like a pirate if I'm the one buying it. If it's going to treat like a pirate then I might as well pirate it and save the money.

    3. Re:There has been worse schemes in the past by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Go to page 12 of the manual, paragraph 5, sentence 3, word 2 and enter it here ________". Or even better you have to put the CD/DVD in the drive (guess you are screwed if you don't have one) for the game to play.

      LOL, ah for the days when cracking DRM was so easy.

  32. Re:Pirating hurts Gamers. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    According to your logic: If i decide not to buy ice cream from a shop I should not enjoying free ice cream someone gives me. It's a sale they are not gonna get, period. If i download the game or not after I decided Ubisoft is evil and greedy it does not affect them at all. There is no game worthy of this villainy and scum.

  33. Fuck You Ubisoft by HisOmniscience · · Score: 2

    Still boycotting you from the first time.

  34. Settlers by emuls · · Score: 0

    I was going to buy the new Settlers game, then I didn't because of the DRM. I guess that's somehow success.

  35. Correlation != Cuusation by milbournosphere · · Score: 2

    Fuck you, Ubisoft. Your DRM is 'working' because your games suck balls. Nobody's downloading them because they suck. You've succeeded only in alienating your customers. How can you call this success? Bullet, meet foot.

  36. Make it all up... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They didn't actually have any valid way to measure or even gather these statistics as far as I know. However, that's not really the point for them. Justification was needed for the DRM and thus they simply made that justification up. Games that are pirated and of actual interest for people to do so typically create a modified version that will run without the phone home and then someone simply adds the application into a full block on their firewall. Granted it means they simply cannot play multi-player but that doesn't seem to matter to most.

    Personally, I simply won't buy a game with this sort of restrictive DRM attached to it. In the VERY few cases that I do purchase games with a "phone home feature" I always make sure that I can get a hack for it that will allow me to play without needing to do so. I still buy the game but I simply won't be tethered to their restrictions on how I use it. Do I support them with my purchase; most certainly. Do I agree with them dictating when, where, and how I'll use the product I bought from them; not in the slightest!

    I reserve my rights to play the game I paid for. I don't distribute it nor do I steal it but if I bought it then I should be entitled to play it as I see fit. EULAs and similar agreements that suggest I don't actually own the product I'm actually paying for are a monstrous corruption of our current software / media industries. If you buy a toaster you can toast what you want with it! Hell, you can destroy it with a sledge hammer, give it to a neighbor, or donate it to Good Will if you want. Because you bought it, own it, and it's yours. A game, movie, or cd shouldn't be any different!

  37. Re:Pirating hurts Gamers. by Tanktalus · · Score: 1

    I don't think you're far from the truth. The part you're missing is where to spend one's gaming dollar in lieu of the games with restrictive DRM. In simple terms, instead of spending time playing pirated games, gamers should be spending their time playing purchased DRM-free games. Carrot AND stick at the same time. The carrot that promises a market (read: cash) for games that meet demand, and the stick that punishes for not meeting that demand.

    As long as companies think that the demand is merely for "good games" regardless of inconvenience, they will continue to market that way. It's only by putting your money toward companies that produce what matters to you (DRM-free) that you'll encourage proper behaviour.

    Putting these companies on one's shitlist is a good start, but it's only half of the equation.

  38. I sincerely doubt this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I know that Assassin's Creed 2 was available, fully functional and cracked, within 48 hours of release. I don't know about other Ubisoft titles since the whole "you must always be connected" thing, but I doubt it was much more successful.

  39. as you no doubt realize... by Press2ToContinue · · Score: 0

    This is the first stage of an insidious invasion by which all of earth is threatened with ultimate destruction. These creatures are from another world. We cannot stop them. We are helpless. We must capture one. That is the onlyway we can learn about them.

    --
    Sent from my ENIAC
  40. who needs Ubi anymore? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Who needs Ubisoft's crap when their best people already left the company, and started to work again (after the ridiculous 1year abstinence period )!!!
    http://www.giantbomb.com/news/patrice-desilets-has-several-ideas-for-his-thq-project/3528/

  41. This is why I refuse to buy ubisoft games new. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Honestly ubisoft doesnt make much I actually want to play but when I do find a game by them Im interested in I NEVER buy the games new so they dont get a penny of my money.

    DRM, cdkeys, online connections, registrations and all that stuff only punishes people who pay money for the games legit. All they do is frustrate their paying customers. I have pirated games before and its much easier and less hassle than when buying a lot of games new.

    Devs just dont understand that people who steal games all the time will never buy them even if they couldnt steal them and intrusive drm only hurts their reputation with legitimate customers because it causes them hassle.

  42. Re:They can take that c___ and blow it out their a by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It is a "Kentucky Fried Movie" reference, in the A.M. Today segment.

  43. Re:Pirating hurts Gamers. by andy9o · · Score: 1

    I should have clarified, but I just don't play restrictive DRM titles.

  44. What about sales? by p51d007 · · Score: 1

    a Ubisoft representative said the company has seen "a clear reduction in piracy of our titles which required a persistent online connection... What they FAIL to tell you is that "we've also seen a clear reduction in sales of said software with a persistent online connection LOL

  45. Relative percentages by Bert64 · · Score: 1

    If less people are interested in a game due to this DRM, or due to the game just not being very good, that will also translate to less people interested in pirating it...

    --
    http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
    1. Re:Relative percentages by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      of course, the more money they waste on DRM and DRM Enforcement, the less money they have to spend on development of a game worthy of customers purchasing it.

  46. games have always had DRM by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Remember answering trivia questions to play Leisure Suit Larry?

    1. Re:games have always had DRM by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      heh, that wasnt DRM that was almost a joke so they could claim it protected against minors playing the game. Supposedly you would have to be at least 18 at the time it was produced to know the answers.

      Of course, all it really accomplished was teaching some rascal minors some silly trivia who then could play the game just fine.

    2. Re:games have always had DRM by Scarletdown · · Score: 1

      heh, that wasnt DRM that was almost a joke so they could claim it protected against minors playing the game. Supposedly you would have to be at least 18 at the time it was produced to know the answers.

      Of course, all it really accomplished was teaching some rascal minors some silly trivia who then could play the game just fine.

      And even that didn't work too well. I was 20 or 21 at the time I purchased Leisure Suit Larry for the Apple IIGS, and I still frequently got most of the questions wrong.

      --
      This space unintentionally left blank.
  47. Who payes for the wasted bandwidth? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    So.. since this game *must* be played online, who is going to pay for the bandwidth just to keep it active?

    Lets say I have a 250GB/month cap (DSL from AT&T) and I'm getting close to that limit for whatever reason. Just so I can play this game, I have to stay connected which means they are checking for that connection, and then checking their server to see if I can play. That uses up my allotment. Who is going to pay for that? I didn't ASK for it. It is their DRM that is causing it. I don't want the DRM, I just want to play the game on my machine without having to eat up my monthly allotment.

  48. Re:Pirating hurts Gamers. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    You're wrong, piracy is only a justification, the real goal is to kill the second hand market. You need to wake up and realize this.

  49. Funny, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You know, ever since I finally got a job where I'm making some decent money, it just didn't make sense to pirate games anymore. Too much work when I can buy them on steam for $10. Then I bought Dragon Age Ultimate and wasted several hours trying to get their stupid DRM to allow me to play the game with the DLC. Yeah, no more. I went back to pirating games with DRM. I'd much rather just have a one-click from steam, but if they don't want my money, then so be it.

  50. How do they measure "alienented customers?" by NickFortune · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I would expect that titles with a great deal of piracy are somehow detected by this. If they know that they have actually sold X units through retail, and they have X+Y connections, then the number of pirated instances is Y.

    Assuming, of course that none of the pirate strategies involved short-circuiting the phone-home feature altogether, or communicating with a dummy server. Otherwise they can't see the pirate instances at all. Which would render their estimates on the optimistic side, at best.

    The thing to remember is that some people at Ubisoft has spent a hell of a lot of Ubi's money on this strategy. These guys are seriously invested in DRM being successful. Or at least appearing to be successful. It stands to reason they're going to try and spin it as a success.

    The interesting thing to note however is that they're telling us how piracy rates have dropped due to DRM, rather than how sales have risen for DRM'd titles. If sales had so risen, they'd be fools not to shout it from the rooftops.

    Since they're not doing that, I find myself wondering if some poor sod has been given one last chance to salvage his or her career by showing that always-on DRM isn't just the expensive, ineffective sales killer it appears to be.

    Losing a user means nothing except in subscription based games. Losing a sale means a whole lot more.

    Well, except that when you pollute your brand identity enough, all lost users are lost sales. Because if people start to think "Ubisoft" == "can't play my game because the servers are always down" == "waste of money", then they don't buy any more Ubisoft games, and it's not just one lost sale, but all the future sales they might have made to that user. Apply that across a significant percentage of the brand's userbase, and the bottom line starts to hurt.

    But nevertheless, I take your point. And yet what I'm not hearing from Ubi is "sales are rising despite DRM".

    Interesting.

    --
    Don't let THEM immanentize the Eschaton!
  51. Funny, I dont own any Ubisoft games... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I wonder why that is?

    Fuck U..bisoft.

  52. An open statement to game companies by phoenix182 · · Score: 1

    After the recent announcement by Ubisoft I wanted to remind you all that since the inception of invasive or irrational DRM systems I have maintained my stance to not play anything you make if you engage in such practices. You turned a once avid game purchaser to other pursuits rather than give you a single dollar of my money. My life is probably better for it; how's yours?

  53. Needing two copies for a 2-player game by tepples · · Score: 1

    I can buy a game and install it on my desktop and my laptop, and play it on either machine so long as I don't try to play both at once. Makes sense to me.

    I agree with respect to single-player. But many console games let two to four players play on one console. PC games, on the other hand, tend to require a separate PC per player, and Cracked columnist David Wong cynically claims that this is to sell multiple copies of the game per household.

  54. Would you like a data plan with that? by tepples · · Score: 1

    And don't kid yourself, you're never offline

    Once PC video game publishers include a subscription to cellular Internet access with their products, I'll let them claim that. Until then, I'm not willing to spend $50 per month on Virgin Mobile broadband just to be able to play a [expletive] video game on my bus commute to and from work.

  55. Without qualification I can guarantee by Mick+R · · Score: 1

    I will NEVER buy a game that requires me to be online the whole time to play a single player game and will consistently advise friends and family to do the same. Congratulations to the guy who starts a replay about World of Warcrack, I don't play that either! I wouldn't bother pirating a game with this level of DRM, either. I'd just go buy something else from a different production house that didn't treat legitimate buyers like criminals, or even an indie game.

  56. How do I get into your country? by tepples · · Score: 1

    Copyright infringement is not a criminal offense.

    It is where I live. Where do you live, and what's the best way for an American to legally immigrate?

  57. subject by Legion303 · · Score: 1

    If by "clear reduction in piracy" they mean "Skidrow released our connection-required titles days earlier than retail with the online requirement patched right out," then I wholeheartedly agree. That did happen.

  58. Video Games using Secure Distribution Channels by erexx23 · · Score: 1

    If you considered a Video Game a Distribution Channel, that you pay a one time fee or subscription for, it would be like any other sub-premium pay to view TV programming. I think the interaction involved in a video game is often better than television. That's not to say that all distribution channels should be only electronic. I prefer physical media. Something that still has some true value that can be lent, borrowed and sold or traded at will. Give me that ability with my secure electronic property and then I would have a better opinion about it.

  59. Good For Them by xrobertcmx · · Score: 1

    I'm still not buying any of them.

  60. I'm boycotting too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    But unlike so many others, I'm not pissed off, outraged, righteous, or anything like that. It's just when I see Ubisoft as the publisher, I remember my flakey connection (I play games to pass time when my internet is DOWN), I know ahead of time it'll be a stressful pain in the ass, and I see if there's something else I want on Steam. Yeah, another network-based DRM, but it works offline, even worked when I didn't have internet for three weeks.

    Maybe I'm just on the old end of the demographic and don't affect sales growth or something, but I think people like me are the more dangerous kind of disgruntled customer: not someone who's passionately angry that they can't play some totally awesome game from Ubisoft, but someone who just gave up on them and won't even bother with a purchase decision, let alone get angry at them for it. That's brand damage.

  61. Success is definitely a lie by Cito · · Score: 1

    Every Ubisoft DRM enabled title has been broke within the week and up on Demonoid.me at least. I know back when people were bragging Assassin's Creed 2 would not be broken people claimed it wasn't broken even up to 2 weeks after it's release. But that was false. As the drm was cracked within 4 days the first copy showing up on demonoid worked all but 1 of the last missions which was fixed within 24 hours so I'd say total 5 days to break that drm at least from seeing it appear on demonoid.me

    There has been no DRM that I have seen that has worked. I myself could be called a pirate, heck even hardcore pirate since mid 90's on newsgroups. But my plan is I usually download to try it out, if the controls are wonky or I just don't care for it, I don't buy it and I uninstall it to make room for something else.

    If on other hand I do enjoy it, then I'll buy a legit copy so I get the support/online play if it has it/extras, etc.

    Then there are the times where I will pirate just out of spite, and that has now why many try before you buy "pirates" are now making it a point to pirate ubisoft and not buy out of protest of their not working draconian attempts at drm. And no drm will ever work, even drm's requiring dongles have been broken and are up on demonoid.

  62. It can't be measured by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I don't buy games that are "always connected". Period. DRM is a pain in the neck as it is. It is a pity, I used to spend so much on PC games but the issues I have had with the modern DRM components, well, I have better things to do than stuff around trying to get a $100 game to run so. I really only play them on the iPad now. No mucking around and cheap. I do miss my FPS games but at least I don't sit here swearing at the computer so much.

    So, I am a lost sale and I wonder how they measured it?

  63. Re:Pirating hurts Gamers. by Nyder · · Score: 1

    When will people realize, when you decline to purchase a game due to restrictive DRM, opting instead to pirate it, you are hurting other gamers. Your decision to pirate the game, rather than not play it at all, contributes to the justification for these companies to come up with even more intrusive DRM, to combat the "rampant" piracy of their titles. As long as piracy occurs on any title, those studios will blame sales shortfalls on piracy. Not the ever decreasing length, or quality, of the their games. Not the decision to kill dedicated servers, cap player limits, or release slapped together console-ports. Not the required third-party multiplayer platforms (GFWL, Gamespy, etc.).

    They see things in one context: If there be pirates, there be demand, we just need more DRM.

    Quit towing the company line.

    Piracy doesn't hurt shit.

    Piracy of video games have been around since video games have been around. You don't believe me? My first video games, for the TRS-80, no one paid for, we shared them amounst ourselves.
    My C64, same.
    etc.

    Guess what? Most of the same publishers are still around, making their profits over the years, like they have been.

    Studies show that pirates tend to buy more media then non pirates, but those keep getting repressed because it goes against what the companies want you to believe.

    It isn't about piracy, it's about the companies feel that they should be getting money from everything. It's called greed. It's what is the current style of companies that dont' want to inovate, they just want to make money.

    For example, I pirate. I pirate a lot of stuff. New movies, music, games. Guess what? None of that stuff i download, I would ever pay money for. None of it. The stuff I do, i go and buy. You'll find EA games that i paid for, why? Because I enjoy the Need For Speed games (well, some of them) and I support EA by purchasing the games I like.

    I downloaded Need For Speed Shift. While it was an okay game, it's not my style. So I'm not buying it. Did my download of the game rob EA from a sale? No. Because I will never buy with out trying, and if they didn't put a demo out, then i would never get to try it, and would never buy it.

    If you can't understand this is just corporate greed, let me bust a recent example. Second Hand games. See, the industry doesn't like them, because they get no money from them. Which is how it's been for a long time (cars, music, houses, etc.) once you sell something you own, you aren't entitled to any money from future sales. yet the game industry wants all money, from any sales of games, to go to their pocket, even which they already got paid the first time.

    It's called greed, and it's big in the music, movies and game industry currently.

    It's also one of the big sins, if your one of those religious freaks.

    --
    Be seeing you...
  64. Yep by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Although I was looking forward to Assassin's Creed 2, I bypassed it because of this DRM. I won't be buying any games with this DRM.

    So yes, success, I saved time, money and pseudo-stress when it kicks me off from my comcast connection dropping momentarily every few minutes.

    Then again, I guess they are successfully identifying/narrowing their target market.

  65. Re:Pirating hurts Gamers. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You don't get it. I'm not arguing with you. I understand the concept of downloading a game to try, that you would never, ever, buy. But, these game companies do not, or will not, accept that. To them, ridiculous as it is, every illegal download is a lost sale, and the courts seem to agree, with some of the ridiculous RIAA rulings they've handed down. All I'm advocating is, if you don't like the DRM policy of a company, don't play the game. At all. There are lots of great games that don't screw their customers. Because until you can convince the courts, the media, or the game companies otherwise, you get counted in their bullshit stats of lost sales. Which they use as justification to turn around and put even more DRM on their next product.

  66. lol.. by gale+the+simple · · Score: 1

    Now if only uBISOFT made any decent games lately I would pirate it just on principle. In absence of those, shoo ubisoft. Shoo. With capcom, activision and ea you have become yet another name not to said in my house.

    --
    This post is provided without warranty as to reliability, accuracy or otherwise or fitness for any particular purpose.
  67. I used to be a gamer back in the 90's and 00's.. by kheldan · · Score: 1

    ..but I wouldn't bother, now.

    --
    Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
  68. PR by Tom · · Score: 2

    So reduced piracy.

    Does that translate into more sales? Because piracy doesn't matter, sales do. Piracy is only important in so far as it reduces sales. We point that out all the time when they make the foolish equation of "x illegal copies == x lost sales", which isn't true.
    Likewise "x less illegal copies" does not equal "x more sales".

    In fact, if they would release both of these numbers, we would finally see some actual hints on what the correlation is. So if they found a 50% reduction in piracy, but only 5% additional sales, we'd have a first data point for an equation.

    Funny how they don't seem to be interested in that... I wonder why...

    --
    Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
  69. Re:Dear Ubisoft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You've got your short-term profits
    That's what I'm counting on
    I hope you spend right through them
    Now I only want you gone

  70. Re:The loud crying heard from /. ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Err what? The thing is, you can go to just about any website discussing this move in any capacity, and see that, short of paid shilling, astroturfing, and other intentional publisher PR interference, this move by ubisoft, even among other software developers, is roundly regarded as an absolute failure, and has alienated far more people than it has convinced to actually spring for ubisoft products.

    I know I, myself, will never, ever purchase another ubisoft game, despite being really, really interested in both from dust, and Julian Gollop's shadow wars for the 3ds. They could win me back with an apology, and a promise never to force a scheme like this on paying customers again, but CDprojekt red ubisoft ain't.

  71. Oh, they have succeeded by Y2KDragon · · Score: 2

    They have succeeded in making me not want to buy one of their products ever again. I guess they have gone with the "new" definition of "WINNING"

  72. Is this guy high? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    a clear reduction in piracy of our titles which required a persistent online connection

    Funny, because if the readers at /. are any indication, DRM increases piracy and decreases sales.
    And if you honestly think DRM stops piracy, you need to have your head examined. There are people like me that see that as a challenge.
    I remember EA was boasting about how amazing their DRM was for Spore, it was broken in one weekend by some Australian team.