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Man Charged in Model Airplane Plot To Bomb Pentagon
garymortimer writes "A 26-year-old Massachusetts man with a physics degree was arrested and charged Wednesday with plotting an attack on the Pentagon and the U.S. Capitol with remote-controlled model aircraft, authorities said. Rezwan Ferdaus, a U.S. citizen from Ashland, Massachusetts, planned to use model aircraft filled with C-4 plastic explosives. As a result of an undercover FBI investigation, Ferdaus, who has a physics degree from Northeastern University in Boston, was charged with attempting to provide material support and resources to al Qaeda for attacks on U.S. soldiers overseas. His federal public defender couldn't be reached immediately for comment."
Well shit does this mean I have to get groped before using my RC airplanes? I hope they are willing to at least give me a happy ending if so. I'm tired of them being teases.
Didn't he get the memo about how SUICIDE bombers work?
And a remote control plane? Great, now the TSA's going to be doing strip searches in toy stores. (always figured groping kids was their main plan all along, this just helps them achieve it faster).
Waiting for an amusing sig.
Smells like a set up...
Why would anyone with half a brain do this? A model plane with a bit of C4 wouldn't do much to the exterior. So much work and risk for such little little 'gain'.
My guess is this guy pissed off someone big.
I have to wonder the nature of the situation when the charges are for, "attempting to provide material support", as in, was he in contact with anyone who was actually planning to bomb anything, or was everyone he interacted with affiliated with law enforcement, and they took a disgruntled man and groomed him into the position they're not charging him for.
We'll probably never really know, which is why I really dislike conspiracy type charges when there aren't several people charged.
Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
The Pentagon is *really* big. So is the Capitol. Unless the remote controlled airplane was a full size Cessna, you couldn't carry enough C4 to do any real damage to either of them. The FBI spokesperson called him an aspiring terrorist. With the emphasis on ASS, I'd say.
even in TFA. It says that he planned to do this himself, and explicitely states that he had no direct connection to a terrorist organization, where does the "attempting to provide material support and resources to al Qaeda for attacks on U.S. soldiers overseas" charge come from?
I guess it could be inferred that he THOUGHT he had a connection, that turned out to be FBI agents, but it doesn't say anything about that, and if that's not true, then should shock everyone reading, because it just implied that every one who wants to commit a terrorist act is automatically considered to be a part of Al Qaeda.
It never said anything about him being Muslim. (not that it matters, it is just a religious belief)
Hmm . . . Christians have bombed federal buildings and abortion clinics in the U.S., and buildings in Norway.
By your logic, physics degrees should not be given to Christians because they might build nuclear bombs and drop them on people.
No kidding. Imagine what might have happened if we'd let German "physicists" anywhere near our nuclear weapons program!
In a perfect world, scientific/engineering degrees would be reserved for people who display rational, scientific thought in all areas of their life, and don't suspend it when it comes to 2000 years old fairy tales promoted by authority figures, yes.
A real, full-size airliner barely put a dent in the Pentagon. A remote controlled plane the size of a Cessna full of C4 would break a few windows.
This guy was a physics major and can't calculate how much C4 it would take to punch a hole in a solid concrete building?
That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
Nobody gets a physics degree! (not that Christians and Muslims are the only people in the world)
http://www.gallup.com/poll/149399/Congressional-Job-Approval.aspx
Just another "scare them" plot. People will act like this is the horror of the century and use it to justify curtailing rights even more.
So we've established that physicists are the real villains here right?
It's too bad that a fun hobby like RC aircraft was co-opted by the military for use in target drones and later surveillance aircraft and now weapons platforms. Of course one understands the reasons - they are cheap, well no now they are $100 million each but they used to be cheap, they are quiet, and you don't need to put a pilot in danger or have the whole logistical set up of a full airbase to support one. At some point the airbase itself becomes a target that needs to be defended. A drone can be launched or recovered from almost anywhere - depending on the drone.
It was an idea that made sense. But ideas grow, just like the concept of lighting gunpowder behind a ball of lead inside a tube. The basic properties of drones remain - almost anyone can fly one. They are cheap. They are quiet. And you can't put a hellfire missile on one but you certainly could put a couple pounds of explosives, and fly it absolutely anywhere. And I mean anywhere. If the military can do it, so can you. Because of this innate problem, my prediction is that RC aircraft - owning one, manufacturing one, or flying one, is about to be grabbed by the government and handed to the military. Just like today guns are under strict control, RC aircraft will soon be under strict control. And that's sad because the vast, vast majority of RC aircraft are flown by hobbyists for fun.
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
I wonder which would have done more damage... the fake C4 nosediving onto the pentagons front lawn, or the now defaulted student loans for the physics degree.
Yeah, more than likely he's a Unitarian.
Open channel D.
The man from U.N.C.L.E. had an episode that used an rc plane to attack Washington buildings.
Because denying religious people an education will make the world a safer, more peaceful and forward thinking place? I seriously doubt that.
I'm more inclined to think equal opportunities and education for all, regardless of their beliefs, is a very positive step forward.
Hmm, let's see, a R/C plane might weigh ten pounds and carry maybe 5 pounds of explosives. The plane that hit the Pentagon weighed, oh, say ten thousand times as much, packed about 25,000,000 times the energy, and damaged the Pentagon by, say, 1%. What school did he go to, just so I make sure my son doesn't go there for his Master's?
Let me say after near death in Iraq in 2005, my son in a horrible helicopter crash in Afghanistan last year we have both dealt with radical Islam, and there is nothing that motivates these people we are fighting more than Allah. We all know who the bad guy is here and what is being fought for. For those of you that care my son and I are both Army Rangers.
Yes. Physicists. Oh, and video game players. Physicists and video gamers. Oh, and those degenerate Dungeons and Dragons players. Physicists, video gamers, and D&D players. Not too sure about Harry Potter fans either.
- For the complete works of Shakespeare: cat
arrested and charged Wednesday with plotting an attack on the Pentagon and the U.S. Capitol
was charged with attempting to provide material support and resources to al Qaeda for attacks on U.S. soldiers overseas
There is no information to indicate he was connected to a foreign terrorist organization.
Huh? How does the charge relate to the act?
A 26-year-old Massachusetts man with a physics degree
So, what was his Slashdot handle?
All terrorists are nutcases. No sane person decides that cold-blooded mass murder (often of people only tangentially related to the source of their anger) is the best way to accomplish their goals.
Given my druthers, I'd prefer smart terrorists. Guys like this making RC plane bombs, or that guy who tried to make a dirty bomb to set off at Obama's inauguration. They tend to be easier to catch, because they outsmart themselves. Someone less "clever" might just buy a gun and shoot some people -- see Scott Roeder, Byron Williams, Nidal Hassan, and Jared Loughner.
All different motives (anti-abortion, Glenn Beck told me to, anti-military, straight-up crazy), and all of them not-all-there. Three of the four successful, and the fourth (Williams) only failed because society was lucky enough for him to get a traffic ticket on the way to the shooting. I'll take a dent in the Pentagon's walls any day of the week.
You can grow a pair and realize that the vast majority of these nut jobs are muslim, or you can bury your head in the sand and pretend they're not. Your choice. Though it might help if you leave the west for a bit and travel the world and see for yourself exactly how true it is.
Om, nomnomnom...
Rezwan Ferdaus is a moslem.
They are the followers of that "Peaceful Religion".
So peaceful that they bombed the WTC of New York City.
So peaceful that even a guy that studied physics in a major university can't help himself but plotting to bomb the country that helps him to get his university degree
Just round up those moslems. They _ARE_ the nutcases.
The government is starting a new process to restrict shipment and sales of model rocket engines, after getting their asses handed to them in a big court case against rocket hobbyists a couple years ago.
Next hobby on the chopping block-- Punkin Chunkers? BattleBots? , DIY anything?
That's right citizen...just sit on your couch and watch the tube...actually building things helps the terrorists!
Remember "News for Nerds, Stuff that Matters"? Help make it a reality again! http://soylentnews.org
The picture sure looks like an F-4 Phantom jet...
anyone?
The RC model shown in the picture looks to be cost several hundred dollars--nowhere near close to $6500.
It reeks of entrapment when the FBI brags about their conspiracy busts after having to supply all the materials, setup the explosives for them, and show the perps how to use them, drive them to the event and then bust the perps for 'terrorism'.
Multiple examples discussed here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DaqUmtKnIHs
Same as from any God fearing, church going Christian, I guess, Stupidity!
You can also grow a brain and realize that the vast majority of these nut jobs are mad because we just won't leave them the fuck alone, and are constantly getting involved in their countries' business in the mideast because of our addiction to oil. If we didn't have troops and military bases over there, we wouldn't have them trying to blow us up all the time. Maybe if we minded our own fucking business instead of trying to be an evil empire, we wouldn't have so many enemies.
How many suicide bombers have attacked Switzerland?
The article says he had a model F-86, but any idiot knows the plane in the picture is an F-4 Phantom.
What percentage of nut job attacks on American soil were Muslim?
Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
The vast majority of these nut jobs have brown hair.
The vast majority of these nut jobs are humans.
The vast majority of these nut jobs have two ears.
Want to know that ALL of the nut jobs have in common?
THEY'RE NUT JOBS!
Name me a time when there wasn't violence going on in the middle east. It was all rainbows and unicorns until Israel showed up and ruined the peace party.
Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
This is unreal - I just re-watched Brotherhood Of The Rose (1989) and that is exactly how they destroyed one of the bad guys. Awesome Show - Robert Mitchum, Peter Strauss, Connie Selleca, David Morse - 3 hours long, although there is an abridged version at 103 minutes. It was also presented as a TV mini-series (6 episodes I believe). Cheers.
As I understand it, all Islamic terrorists arrested inside the U.S. were put up to it by the FBI.
You see, the FBI prefers to train it's own terrorists because doing so is far easier than catching the real deal, who might be dangerous, or hard to find, or worse not exist at all. Don't you feel safer with the FBI making sure there are terrorists to catch?
The Christian religion has been and still is the principal enemy of moral progress in the world. -- Bertrand Russell
At some point the airbase itself becomes a target that needs to be defended. A drone can be launched or recovered from almost anywhere - depending on the drone.
Right... because a "drone control center" - and you KNOW they will centralize it - wouldn't be just as juicy a target as an airfield? It may be easier to hide now, but eventually techniques for backtracking the control signals or whatever will make it possible to locate them. Didn't you watch SG:U or the Star Wars prequel movies? They *always* go after the drone command!
My first reaction, after seeing the headline, was that here is another thing to be taken away from us because of its (fairly recently realized) potential for destruction.
Chemistry sets, model rocketry, electronics (anyone remember the recent story about the girl with the electronics project in the airport?)... one can only wonder what is next.
If you take the idea to the limit, the logical end is that all tools and/or equipment for experimentation will be outlawed and/or tightly regulated. Though I can imagine it on the horizon, its hard to imagine what it would look like. Can you imagine needing a license to own a pair of pliers?
I sure don't want to live in a world like that.
--
codk
Consider:
The majority of Terrorists (that threaten the western world) are Muslims.
The majority of Muslims are not Terrorists.
The majority of motorists involved in fatal car crashes are male.
The majority of males are not involved in fatal car crashes.
Should all males be banned from driving?
Banning Muslims from getting degrees or treating them like mindless zealots will not help the situation.
Mod me troll, whatever. Some of the narrow minded comments I have read here makes me wonder if some of you are even nerds.
Mind staying put while I make a few phone calls? Don't worry, someone will be right with you.
As a Unitarian, let me assure you that we couldn't get out of committee meetings long enough to attempt any sort of terrorist action. Our secret plots all come out easily, anyway, because a major tenet of our faith is open discussion around the Sacred Coffeepot.
You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
`The Avengers', "Two's A Crowd"
The Avengers (TV series)
Wait wait wait, I wonder what kind of degree this guy had?
Hmm . . . Christians have bombed federal buildings and abortion clinics in the U.S., and buildings in Norway.
By your logic, physics degrees should not be given to Christians because they might build nuclear bombs and drop them on people.
So a lone wolf "Christian" tries to bomb an abortion clinic because he truly believes that it will save the lives of hundreds of children and at the very most, kills a staff of 6 that work at the abortion clinic and is shunned by over 99% of Christians.
The most recent abortion protest death was not done by a pro-life activist, but was done TO a pro-life activist James Lawrence Pouillon.
Before that, it was George Tiller, an abortion doctor, who was murdered. Oh, yeah, George Tiller was also an usher at a church. Guess those terrorist Christians didn't know about his job. Oh wait. Yeah they did and none of the church people killed him. That's strange and disproves your entire point. Must be an error.
A group of Islamist followers get funding from other Muslims, and work and plan for years before hijacking four planes full of random, innocent men, women and children and fly them into buildings filled with more, random, innocent people to kill as many as humanly possible. They end up killing around 3,000, but make it perfectly clear that if they could have killed 300 million, they would jump at the chance. There is dancing in the streets overseas and their actions are supported by about 25% of Muslims IN THE US.
Yeah. It's the same thing.
(I must add that this is sarcasm. I have to add that because you really and truly believe that the two examples I've given are truly the very same thing. This proves that you are an idiot, or just really bad at math.)
Source:
According to a new survey by the Pew Research Center, one in four American Muslims between the ages of 18 and 29 believe that slaughtering random civilians in suicide bombings is justifiable, if it is “to defend Islam.”
There is no "I disagree" mod for a reason. Flamebait, Troll, and Overrated are not substitutes.
At the local RC airport here in Van Nuys (probably the busiest RC airport in the world) they have a couple of days of LA JETS each year. The variety and sophistication of the equipment is amazing. Each of those planes probably is a multi-thousand dollar investment.
But what's also amazing is how well the community polices itself. There are safety interlocks on each plane, and very strict rules about speed, altitude, and range; and everybody watches everybody else extremely closely. They all know that the first time a 200mph 15-lb jet plows through a crowd of spectators, it's all over -- so they are fanatical about safety. It's very impressive to see. So far, I believe that the safety record has been extremely good.
I love Mondays. On a Monday, anything is possible.
Ever? Not much I would guess.
In a perfect world, scientific/engineering degrees would be reserved for people who display rational, scientific thought in all areas of their life, and don't suspend it when it comes to 2000 years old fairy tales promoted by authority figures, yes.
In your perfect world, we wouldn't have things like logarithms, The Big Bang theory or Bucky Balls.
Yeah. Those Christians sure are stupid, anti-science, freaks! I'm sure science would be better off without them trying to meddling with their voodoo discoveries.
There is no "I disagree" mod for a reason. Flamebait, Troll, and Overrated are not substitutes.
For once.
Which is, like, good. Real C4 could still have killed some people (either in the park or at this location by being dumb or while exploding even if it doesnt really arm the building itself, could crash nearby and injure people.
In short, echelon seems to work just fine ;-)
What an incredibly racist thing to say.
Some of them lie because they are Irish.
"I assumed blithely that there were no elves out there in the darkness"
Same as from any God fearing, church going Christian, I guess, Stupidity!
This was modded down and I'm not sure it should have been. Really, while most American Christians are very well behaved, they could easily fall into this kind of behavior for their god. They believe that their religion gives them superior morality. But, as an atheist, I can look at something considered sinful to a Christian and objectively evaluate whether or not it is a good thing or a bad thing without feeling morally obligated to torment it, shoot it, or blow it up.
A degree does not automatically make anyone capable, conversely, a lack of a degree does not make them incapable. This holds true in all walks of life.
- Dan.
~ People that think they are better than anyone else for any reason are the cause of all the strife in the world.
So in other words, you feel your atheism gives you superior morality.
[Sir Garlon] is the marvellest knight that is now living, for he destroyeth many good knights, for he goeth invisible.
> "How many suicide bombers have attacked Switzerland?"
...
Out of curiosity, did you begin by writing "How many terrorists have attacked England?" Ah, crap. "How many terrorists have attacked Spain?" Oops. "How many terrorists have attacked Germany?" [http://www.france24.com/en/20110913-germany-salafist-funadamentalism-islam-terror-attack-plot-internet-propaganda-rise] Um. No wait. "How many terrorists have attacked France?" [http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,176139,00.html]
Seriously, though, I'd take your suggestion a little more seriously if muslim terrorists weren't involved in attacking so many different countries. At a certain point, you have to ask yourself if everyone is in a conspiracy against muslim nations, or if something else is going on. Here's a quick count: US, England, France, Spain, attacks by muslims against muslims in muslim nations (in Egypt, Iraq, Pakistan, etc), Nigeria, Pakistani terrorists attacking India, attacks against Russia, attacks in China [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_the_People%27s_Republic_of_China], attacks in southeast asia [http://www.unc.edu/depts/diplomat/item/2005/0103/palm/palmer_seaterr.html], attacks in the Phillipines [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_the_Philippines]. There have been documents also showing that Osama Bin Laden hated the UN because the UN treated all religions equally (which was offensive because Islam was clearly superior) and he hated the universal declaration of human rights.
There is a reason terrorist prefer straight axle trucks, they can carry enough explosives to actually destroy something. RC planes might kill a few people and cause a lot of limited chaos, but the headlines of "Destroying" buildings are simply inflammatory. I have yet to see an article calling for the ban of Ryder trucks.
I'm more inclined to think equal opportunities and education for all, regardless of their beliefs, is a very positive step forward.
Not when they are radical Muslims (and which ones are not?) who believe sex with underage virgins and in forwarding their views with child homicide bombers.
Hi Dr Mengele!
Operated on any twins recently, in the name of science?
Unless you're being sarcastic, you're the perfect example of an atheist needing more religion.
It says that he planned "jihad" and he is quoted saying "[the Pentagon]'s the target to eliminate and terrify all enemies of Allah."
as an atheist, I can look at something considered sinful to a Christian and objectively evaluate whether or not it is a good thing or a bad thing without feeling morally obligated to torment it, shoot it, or blow it up.
And as a pseudoChristian, I can do so while feeling morally obligated *not* to torment it, shoot it, or blow it up. I prefer a society where people feel a moral obligation to not blow things up, and that has to be counterbalanced by a stronger obligation to blow it up, to one where people are perfectly comfortable blowing things up.
Because I could be one of those things someone decides to blow up.
-- IANAL, this isn't legal advice, and definitely isn't legal advice for you. Also, Squee!
...there is nothing that motivates these people we are fighting more than Allah. We all know who the bad guy is here...
The bad guy must be Allah, right? After all, he is a well-known freedom hater.
Okay if we're going to tell the truth, let's tell all of it. The nearly exclusive source of radical Islam is Saudi Arabia. For the last several decades their 20 and 30 somethings have been getting religious degrees in ultra-orthodox schools of Muslim theology and using the trillions of petro-dollars supplied to them by the men in charge of Saudi Arabia to finance schools all over the world to spread their beliefs. Starting with, this world isn't large enough for Muslims and anybody else. We gave them trillions for their oil, which they invested in our weapons (which they gladly turn against us.) We used them as a blunt instrument to bludgeon the USSR then failed to clean up afterwards (see or read about Charlie's War) and now we are haunted by monsters and subsequent disasters of our own making.
The vast majority of Muslims in the world are good neighbors, peaceful and have no desire to do anyone a moments grief. We need to look at radical religious orthodoxies everywhere (including the Christian and Quasi-Christian knuckleheads in the U.S. and crazed Jewish sects in Israel.) Then begin dismantling them. They are one of the greatest threats to peace and a viable future for all people in the 21rst century. Also, America has always claimed to support a two state solution for the Middle-East, and when the time came to put up or shut up, as Palestine applied for statehood at the U.N. The U.S. folded like a house of cards to appease Jewish interests in America and Israel. The current situation is nothing better than slow motion genocide, further destabilizing the area and generating more anti-U.S. sentiment (its hard not to hate the U.S. when our name is on most of the munitions killing people) and we should be deeply ashamed for supporting it in any way. It is high time we all figured out how to get along with one another and get on with the business of living.
So in other words, you feel your atheism gives you superior morality.
His atheism allows him to question morality, his own and others, as opposed to morals dictated by a religion that must be adhered to without question.
--
Religion is regarded by the common people as true,
by the wise as false,
and by the rulers as useful.
— Lucius Annæus Seneca.
Terrorism, the new religion.
Fuck! There goes another hobby. Chemistry, Rocketry, RC Planes... I wonder which geeky hobby is next up to be regulated into oblivion.
"Liechtenstein is the world's largest producer of sausage casings, potassium storage units, and false teeth."
This means that physics degrees are dangerous, and should be outlawed.
But I suppose if we make it illegal to have physics degrees, only criminals will be good at physics.
I don't want no damn yokel haphazardly fostering MRSAs in my hospital, just because he doesn't believe that "eva-lution mumbo-jumbo."
But if he does it for some other reason, then that's OK? If not then it seems like your problem isn't with what people believe but what they do and focusing on just one source of motivation is ineffective at best.
Besides, some the of best hospitals in this country are run by Catholics and one of the main reasons they are the best is precisely because of their religion's tenet about the sanctity of human life - which translates into making the patient's care their central focus instead of the dollar like it has become at many secular hospitals.
I once heard a jesuit say that, "When you read the Bible, the Bible reads you." I think it applies to just about any religion, substitute Torah, Quran, Bhagavad Gita. etc for Bible and the meaning is the same - if you have ignorance in your heart, then you will find justification for ignorance in the Bible, If you have truth and love in your heart then you will find support for truth and love in the Bible.
As an atheist, I think you'd be far better off worrying about what is people's hearts rather than any faith they may use to explain it.
When information is power, privacy is freedom.
Out of curiosity, did you begin by writing "How many terrorists have attacked England?" Ah, crap.
In case you haven't noticed, the British has sent their troops into all the same places that the US has, as their lackey. So of course they're going to get hit with terrorist attacks. Same goes for the other places. The one place conspicuously absent is Switzerland, because they don't get involved in anyone else's business.
Pakistani terrorists attacking India
Pakistan and India have been fighting over Kashmir ever since they got independence from Britain. Now obviously, that's no excuse for terrorist acts, but notice the Paki terrorists aren't attacking the US? That's because we haven't gotten involved in their Kashmir conflict.
attacks against Russia
That would probably because of Russia's involvement with Muslim countries in the region, such as Afghanistan, Chechnya, etc.
attacks in China
That would probably be because China has some minority Muslims in its westernmost provinces who are consistently marginalized and pushed aside by the government. (Of course, China would probably argue that they're in the way of the nation's progress and cause problems.)
Yes, you've made a good case that Muslims are highly likely to resort to terrorism when they're upset about something, and they certainly do get upset about a lot of things, some of them completely justified (imperialism by western nations), some of them not (wanting to push their religion on everyone). Countries that are unfortunate enough to be located right next to Islamic countries are going to have to deal with this kind of thing more than others which aren't anywhere near it. The difference with us is that we're geographically nowhere near any Islamic countries (easily farther than any of those other countries you listed), yet they go out of their way to make our lives miserable, and it's not random, it's because of our own actions over there. If we minded our own business instead of trying to take their oil, then we wouldn't have these problems. Let someone else evoke their anger.
After reading this article, I'm halfway tempted to think that his incident was an elaborately orchestrated plot to facilitate a power grab by the FAA:
AMA: FAA Seeks To Restrict Model Aircraft Flight
Excursus: When the FAA was in danger of "losing 4,000 jobs", I thought to myself, "what the hell does the FAA need with 4,000 employees" - can't we deploy Skynet already?
I heart anarcho-capitalism.
It's pretty simple, really: just pour a lot of money into the campaigns for far right-wing Republican candidates like Bachmann,
The alternate plan of pouring money into enough Democratic campaigns to give them unfettered power for two years was far superior, it's destroyed millions of jobs, killed a number of border agents by sending arms to Mexican drug cartels, and basically give the economy a kick in the nads worse than 9/11.
So basically that was a lot better plan than your plan of supporting one person slightly out of the ordinary that simply wants the government to back off people a little bit and let them have some of the freedom they have lost of late.
Come to think of it, how are we supposed to be harmed again by having more freedom? I guess some might party themselves to death, once we lift enough regulations.
I dare you to try your diabolical plan.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Manufactured nut jobs.
Because denying religious people an education will make the world a safer, more peaceful and forward thinking place?
Actually educating religious people will make the world a safer place. Teach people how to think and they tend to see through scams more often.
...surveillance complex.
There have been many cases where, as one defense attorney put it, the "plots" were 'written, directed and produced by the FBI'. As in FBI undercover agents or paid informants will actively encourage people to Do Shit who would otherwise be no more troublesome than your average online malcontent. The agent/informant will, of course, try to get the "perps" to say to hidden microphones that they are acting of their own free will, or even make statements on video, so the defendants can't use entrapment as a defense.
I remember hearing big-name Republican candidates and pundits telling us that there would be a 9/11 ever few months if Obama got elected. Strange how it has seemed to work out.
They were willy enough to believe what he said while campaigning. As far as civil liberties go and the program to do whatever they hell we want to terrorists, he just kept doing what Bush did because once he was in the hotseat and got to look at what was really going on he realized we actually did need to worry a bit.
So yeah, that did turn out better, thanks to Bush laying the groundwork and Obama being rather ineffective and waffling.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Here's the thing - someone asks you to make phone triggers that you know will be used in bombs to kill troops and other people.
It does not matter how simple it is (and for most people it is not that simple), what matters a lot is intent.
If someone said "can I just borrow your golf clubs for a second, I want to bludgeon someone to death" would you do that? Would you e wholly innocent if you did?
To me that cell phone thing really is worse than the plane bomb which was more just crazy fantasy. A cell phone switch for a bomb is a very real step to aid people who want to kill innocent people.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
So let me get this straight. The FBI finds some useful idiot, gives him money/C4/whatever and coaches him on what to do. They create the problem... Then it makes national news? This is more than absurd. There was little chance of him actually completing this plan, much less actually inflicting any damage. This should haven't even made national news.
But let me state the obvious: This is a PR campaign. It keeps us afraid of the evil alCIAda boogeymen, and further gives the government more excuses to clamp down on us, the slave class.
As someone who has worked on drones for over a decade, I can tell you first hand that these drones could not have carried enough C4 to be anything more than a nuisance. Further, it takes more than buying an R/C plane to be a credible threat. He probably would have crashed, being the patsy hack he was. Oh wait, that's right. He wasn't a threat after all, according to the article.
Ask yourself. Why did this make national news? Did I mention the CIA has a budget for propaganda?
...and what of the "humane" Catholic opposition to birth control in developing nations, hm? Maybe the leadership sees it as a big money-grab after the missionaries assimilate the population. "Sanctity of life," my ass.
you feel your atheism gives you superior morality
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." - Voltaire.
And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
Right... because a "drone control center" - and you KNOW they will centralize it - wouldn't be just as juicy a target as an airfield?
Err... why do I know that? What is stopping them from decentralizing it?
I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
NEWSFLASH: Fundamentalists are nuts! Story at 11!
For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
I other words yes. Objectively determined morality is objectively superior to the mumbling of whatever random sky wizard GP happens to believe in. This is nearly tautological and really shouldn't be controversial. Whether its actually superior or not depends, of course, on if GP picked the cult that worships the one true wizard in accordance with the one true doctrine.
I was under the impression that we paid for it. If not, where did the King of Saudi Arabia get all that money from? Did he win it in a card game?
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Some of them are Polish, too, but it's not really a lie if you just don't know any better.
... still waiting for this free-as-in-beer free beer I keep hearing about.
What the fuck was your crotch fruit doing in Afghanistan and Iraq? Delivering shock and awe, no doubt. Too bad he didn't die then.
Your Federal Bureuo of Investigation is sheepishly gaming the dumb fucks in Congress and Obama Boy and his superduper dumb fuck staff for FY12$$$$ again.
FBI Dumb Fuck 1: Hay ... we need money!
FBI Dumb Fuck 2: Right On Man ... We need money!
Obama Administration Dumb Fuck: I want this Money!
FBI Dumb Fuck 1: Cool it Obama Boy ... If we get ours cut then Yous gets 'urs cut.
Obama Administration Dumb Fuck: OTAY .. I wants my Money.
FBI Dumb Fuck 2: Forget Obama Adminstration Dumb Fuck. Bloody bastard's brain is dead.
Obama Administration Dumb Fuck: I wants's my Money'sus!
FBI Dumb Fuck 1: Here's my Glok [hands over glok to FBI dumb fuck 2].. Kill that dumb fucker Obama.
FBI Dumb Fuck 2: I want to Butt fuck'm.
FBI Dumb Fuck 1: You's can butt fuck'm or suck'es pinis after you's blows the living balls off this fucker.
FBI Dumb Fuck 2: I needs 20 dollars.
--**$$222(((!!{{++
First, let me say we do care. At least this one does, and I thank both you and your son for your service.
The real bad guy here is fanaticism of any stripe - Christian, Islamic, Jewish, Libertarian, Republican, Communist - whatever. These believers would destroy anyone who believes differently. No improvement in the human condition will come from them. We all need to look past them and their simplistic, false answers to find a better way.
This story is about how people who work in the terrorism office for the FBI keep their jobs.
...and what of the "humane" Catholic opposition to birth control in developing nations, hm?
Actually I think you've just validated his point about finding what's in your heart. Tons, probably even a majority, of catholics do not agree with the pope on birth control and defy him on a regular basis by using it. But people like you- who having catholic bashing in their heart choose to ignore that fact and go with the part that supports your pre-determined belief.
*Ahem*
Drone control is already centralized. In Nevada and California. Many of them are fly_by_Sat affairs, and the folks that man the flight control centers can go home at the end of the day and play with their kids. I've seen some news footage of the nice set-ups at "mission control". Biggest issue this brings up is making the whole affair too much like a video game, and killing real people from a nice cozy office thousands of miles from the battle. That, and the fact that these operators aren't getting the benefits that in-the-air combat pilots are getting for flying in a combat zone. Even the Brits are piloting their drones from NV.
Being an RC aircraft guy myself, I hope the utility of having a steady stream of young RC pilots being interested in joining up for miitary service might off-set what this idiot has done in the eyes of the feds when it comes time to evaluate the new rules for RC aircraft.
I think you may have been eluding to a control center being the target of an attack. Not much to worry about there unless the baddies have ICBMs. Some nice info here:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4851765
Here is some video of pilots in action:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZP2AKEqEIU
And an article titled "Point. Click. Kill: Inside The Air Force's Frantic Unmanned Reinvention" :
http://www.popsci.com/drones
~~~ Trust me, I'm a professional! ~~~
I'm quite sure that bombing the snot out of their homes, slaughtering their families, and destroying any hope that their surviving children might have for a decent future had nothing to do with their motivation. Everyone instantly recognizes that Army Rangers are only there to bring them sweetness and light, after all.
"Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
We paid a miniscule percentage of its value, mostly to the families of dictators that we (US/GB/France) set up.
"Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
So when are you going to lead by example? You have all the hallmarks of religious belief, minus getting anyone to agree with you.
That would probably because of Russia's involvement with Muslim countries in the region, such as Afghanistan, Chechnya, etc.
Chechnya is not a country, it's a region of Russian Federation.
(and no, it wasn't a country before it was annexed 150 years ago - it was mountains inhabited by a bunch of tribes speaking different languages who happily massacred each other in blood feuds when they didn't have caravans or settlers in the valleys below those mountains to loot)
Your not a terrorist if your plot couldn't possibly work. Yea, I know you want to charge them with WANTING to hurt us, but if their plan was actually not dangerous then we can't charge them. Setting cross legged in the center of Grand Central Station, holding a firecracker, and threatening to blow the building to bits with it should be treated as any normal nuisance if it needs be addressed at all. If we want to charge people with aspirational crimes then they can arrest 90% of everyone stuck in rush hour traffic, and should probably revoke the licenses of the rest.
The reason we subjugate ourselves to law is to better procure justice. If law does not accomplish this purpose then it m
How about the last 5 years? 20 years? 15 years?
It may be a majority, but certainly not a vast one.
Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
Bullshit.
Yes: the bad guy is the religious nut. The merely religious, or people whose parents were religious, is not the "bad guy".
During Vietnam nearly all the enemy were Buddhists. Is Buddha the problem? Nearly all the American aggressors were Christians - Jesus the problem?
No. You're just singling out the most different from you, and therefore noticeable by you, characteristic of our enemy. Jihadists have more in common with Christian Dominionists than with other Muslims. It's religious fanaticism that's the enemy, not Islam per se.
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make install -not war
No, you can act like you have a brain and realize that since there's dozens of millions of times more Muslims who aren't these nut jobs, that it isn't being Muslim that's the defining factor. Though when you look at how Muslims have generally been treated by Americans, and before them the British, on the basis that they were Muslims (ie. not Christian, and not White), then it's actually impressive how few Muslims do become these nut jobs. Considering how good American Christians have had it, but how many Christian nut jobs there are driven by their churchy beliefs, Islam does look like a religion of peace, proportionally.
--
make install -not war
See it is time to ban or criminalize all activities but social networking and watching Dancing with the Stars. That will keep our collective brain numb.
Please mod me 1 or troll. It's where the truth is these days, even on Slashdot. Beware the power of moderators everywh
The downside (for those outside the US) is that if the GOP far right takes the nation for the joyride to Hell, you can expect them to send quite a few foreigners ahead to scout it out. You think the Christian Zionists were going to let the previous generation of Neo-cons have all the fun? They'll love the smell of burning Semites in the morning. It'll smell like... Armageddon.
Luke, help me take this mask off
For those who aren't plugged in, the Free State Movement is an attempt by libertarians to form a voting bloc large enough to be a plurality in (as it finally turned out) New Hampshire. If I were a NH resident, I'd be irked. Since I'm not, I think it's an excellent case study of the laboratory of democracy in action, the beauty of a Federal republic.
If they are a smashing success, they'll be the model for the nation. If they screw up royally, they'll only have taken out a minor state, an easy enough fix, and a warning against the siren song of Ayn Rand, Ron/Rand Paul, etc.
Luke, help me take this mask off
This guy was defeated by the groundwork done by the FBI in tracking him, contacting him and then catching him red handed while he was planning the operation. Note that this wasn't done while he was driving to the Pentagon or setting up his drone. Terrorist plots need to be defeated at the planning stage, and that requires good old investigation and espionage. Not by groping people at the airport check-in queue.
"..One hosts to look them up, one DNS to find them, and in the darkness BIND them."
and that is why the fbi manufactured the event just at the time that the law requires justification. Hearts and minds, god bless them.
Pity; think the dismantling of the FBI, TSA, DHS & Pentagon might just make for a bit of financial success for eliminating the debt?
"Yeah. Those Christians sure are stupid, anti-science, freaks!"
You can be smart and stupid at the same time, of course you'd have to be smart enough to understand this.
I don't want no damn yokel haphazardly fostering MRSAs in my hospital, just because he doesn't believe that "eva-lution mumbo-jumbo."
But if he does it for some other reason, then that's OK? If not then it seems like your problem isn't with what people believe but what they do and focusing on just one source of motivation is ineffective at best.
Eliminating one reason is still a progress. What exactly makes you think that it makes all other reasons OK?
Besides, some the of best hospitals in this country are run by Catholics and one of the main reasons they are the best is precisely because of their religion's tenet about the sanctity of human life - which translates into making the patient's care their central focus instead of the dollar like it has become at many secular hospitals.
Oh look, generalization pulled out of your ass.
I once heard a jesuit say that, "When you read the Bible, the Bible reads you." I think it applies to just about any religion, substitute Torah, Quran, Bhagavad Gita. etc for Bible and the meaning is the same - if you have ignorance in your heart, then you will find justification for ignorance in the Bible, If you have truth and love in your heart then you will find support for truth and love in the Bible.
What a meaningless drivel. Substitute Bible for any other book title (religious or not) and it is still right.
As an atheist, I think you'd be far better off worrying about what is people's hearts rather than any faith they may use to explain it.
I really don't care what particular brand of brain damage they have.
Or did this "credible source" talk bollocks?
One of catholic axioms is pope's infallibility on matters of faith. That 'tons' of people who disagree with pope on birth control are by definition not catholics, but heretics at best.
I once heard a jesuit say that, "When you read the Bible, the Bible reads you." I think it applies to just about any religion, substitute Torah, Quran, Bhagavad Gita. etc for Bible and the meaning is the same - if you have ignorance in your heart, then you will find justification for ignorance in the Bible, If you have truth and love in your heart then you will find support for truth and love in the Bible.
That's the difference between religion and rationality - rational people realise that their beliefs about the world can't change the world by themselves, so they adapt their beliefs to reflect reality, not the other way around.
Because I could be one of those things someone decides to blow up.
You could also be one of those killed when someone doesn't objectively determine that something needs to be blown up before it does greater harm. :)
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
"Yeah. Those Christians sure are stupid, anti-science, freaks!"
You can be smart and stupid at the same time, of course you'd have to be smart enough to understand this.
Since the discussion is on science, scientific discoveries is the exact kinda smart we should be talking about. And re-read the post I was responding to:
In a perfect world, scientific/engineering degrees would be reserved for people who display rational, scientific thought in all areas of their life, and don't suspend it when it comes to 2000 years old fairy tales promoted by authority figures, yes.
Well, looking at these guys' discoveries, it would appear that a belief in "2000 year old fairy tales" and "rational, scientific though" are not mutually exclusive as the GGP was suggesting. Of course, you would have to read to know that.
There is no "I disagree" mod for a reason. Flamebait, Troll, and Overrated are not substitutes.
And apparently his plan didn't account for the fact that even if his men could get on site with weapons of any significance, they'd be squaring off against a very large security force whose personnel are distinguishable from US Marines primarily by uniform, not weapons, training or capabilities.
+1, Sluggy Freelance quote in sig. :)
Karma: Excellent, but still won't get you laid.
He is quoted as saying the infidel must die for Allah.
The idea is to strike fear into people and nations, not cause significant damage. Running a model plane into a crowded air traffic control tower might kill only a couple people, but it would scare the shit out of a nation. What do all the planes do over LAX with no control tower, for instance?
It's all about fear, and with model planes, the terrorist just keeps going and going, instead of being a 1 off suicide bomber. Unlike the Middle East, life is too comfortable in the West to recruit many suicide bombers.
I8-D
Maybe if we weren't killing Muslims in Massachusetts, they wouldn't attack us. They just feel powerless, living impoverished in their 4,000 sq ft mansions, practically uneducated with a degree in physics from Northeastern U. Get the USA out of Massachusetts!
Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
But I'd *rather* be killed by someone who cares. :)
-- IANAL, this isn't legal advice, and definitely isn't legal advice for you. Also, Squee!
Any atheist could become a killer for their beliefs... or unbeliefs, as it were. That's human nature. The Christian bible doesn't specifically condone killing; as we all know, one of the ten commandments says not to kill and Jesus' teachings are easily interpreted as pacifist (e.g. Quakers and Amish). Wars occur in the OT, but that is quite a different matter than terrorism, and out of the scope of this discussion. "Superior morality"? Yeah, not so superior when your God tells you not to kill, but you do so anyway. But in the Qur'an, oppression of infidels is required through the paying of tribute, and resistance is to be met by violence.
Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
Scott Adams once had a blog entry describing the best and worst jobs in the world: the best being a drone pilot scarfing down Doritos in the comfort of a command center and the worst being Al Qaeda's #2 in command (obviously written before OBL was killed).
Terrorism is only effective against bed-wetting thumb-suckers.
Just ask any Republican politician.
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
It certainly gives more intellectual freedom than superstition. Modern man know religion is utter nonsense, yet it is such AFFIRMING, SEDUCTIVE nonsense even some "scientists" don't denounce it.
"This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
Would you really think that the Al Qaeda's would let them in with FBI/CIA to obtain their explosives? I.e.: they would let them be caught so easily? This whole thing was as fabricated as 9/11. Especially the slashdot crowd should understand that there a few noticable things there that do no match up with the official story. Also, there was way too much to gain from the mess at 9/11 so that points to a suspect...
During Vietnam nearly all the enemy were communists which is atheist.
Um.. The FBI was the one selling him the C4 and goading him into this plan. He didn't dream it up on his own - the FBI was "helping" him become a terrorist just so they could charge him.
This is like undercover cops offering you a joint, helping you light it, and then arresting you for possession / consumption.
I don't know. I think we'd still have http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Big_Bang_Theory. 'Cause comedy writers are usually Jewish, amiright?
Fantastic school...pumps out another winner. First Napster (Shawn Fanning), now terrorist plots. All that's left is world domination and perhaps profit?
It seems that this fellow has some serious defects. One can not be a terrorist and be in touch on the net exchanging radical remarks with your buds back in crazy land. If you start chatting with known terrorists and making remarks about building bombs inside the US you sort of attract a whole bunch of attention.
So the guy has a degree in physics which suggests he is bright and yet seems to have some serious mental voids. He can build a huge model airplane or drone as we might want to call this device, acquire explosives, and formulate a plan. Yet he is so deficient as to occupy himself with strange beliefs, have rage against random individuals or organizations and to top it off whacked enough to put it all on the net. Mental defect leaps to mind. This poor guy needs some serious therapy.
During Vietnam nearly all the enemy were communists which is atheist.
Except they weren't actually atheists, they were actually Buddhists. In fact like people everywhere most people in Communist countries never gave up their religion. Ho Chih Minh tried to ally his revolution in Vietnam with the US during Eisenhower, making itself an American-type democracy, if only the US would help kick out France, but Eisenhower refused. You're invoking ancient 3-generations old Cold War propaganda. You're just an idiot.
--
make install -not war
Their word will not have to be taken. I'm sure the following quote of his is on tape:
"This is what we have to do. This is the righteous way . . . to terrorize enemies of Allah"
But the plane with the C4 hitting the Pentagon would have triggered an evacuation.
The AK-47s that he got from the FBI were to be used by fellow Muslims he planned to recruit to shoot people as they left the building.
It's a tad more complex than you pithily imply. The Saudi Royals would not last a minute without US military protection. Just about all Muslims the world over want the Saudi royal family gone, as they are totally against the basic ideals of Islam. The only thing keeping those ass clowns in power is the US military. If the US government simply said "sorry guys, if you want to stay in power in your country, you're going to have to be popular instead of whoring your nation's resources to us so you can buy gigantic flying palaces for your harems" then the US would instantly become far cozier with the Muslim world.
By America's rules, that isn't an act of war though.
Where have you been for the last decade? The executive branch no longer needs a war declared by the legislative branch to suspend a citizen's Constitutional rights. The Constitution was effectively bypassed by the Patriot Act ten fucking years ago.
You would think that countries that outlaw religion would have great track records then, morally speaking.
Ever heard of these guys?
Joseph Stalin
Pol Pot
Mao Zedong
And don't use that bullshit argument that Hitler was a Christian - he was not.
I'm wondering what would have happened if the supposed "terrorist" had tried to report the planned attach to the FBI. Being that the people he was consorting with were FBI agents how would that have been handled? Also, what if the "terrorist' had practiced some vigilantism as in killed his conspirators because he thought they were actual terrorists .. now he's just killed some FBI agents. I think that would be an interesting case to watch.
This is a signature.
maybe they don't like the governments that we support with oil money?
I figure many fundamentalist nutjobs would be fundamentalist nutjobs anyway, no matter what we do, but no sense in just making things worse.
I listen to both RIAA and non-RIAA stuff if I like the music, tangential business/politics nonwithstanding.
"When you read the Bible, the Bible reads you."
Reminds me of the "Every fool in error can find a passage of Scripture to back him up" aphormism attribute to Shakespeare.
I agree that some people are motivated by religion to do positive things, some negative, with a continuum between the two. Whether it's better or worse than they'd be otherwise is a whole other discussion.
By the way, that is just begging for an In Soviet Russia reference, but that would be Orthodox instead of Catholic. :)
I listen to both RIAA and non-RIAA stuff if I like the music, tangential business/politics nonwithstanding.
people like you never learn anything and always attempt to blame the government for the failures of criminals. Exactly why is that? Are you so concerned that your own self serving behavior will attract attention of everyone that you feel the need to automatically lash out at everyone, or are you just an asshole?
but as John Wayne Gacy showed us, angry clowns need to be taken care of.
Dunno, but right now there are just a couple of main drone control centers, located in the US (one in Nevada and one in Virginia IIRC). They also have portable control stations that can be moved around in containers, however.
The drone control signals can be (and usually are) relayed through satellites if they're worried about being traced.
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
So let me get this straight. The FBI establishes that he is becoming radical. Gets him to buy cellphones as triggers for bombs. Then the FBI gives him 6 AK-47 's after establishing that he wants to help kill people? *Mind Blown by stupidity* How does the FBI get away with this without the agent in charge being charged with "aiding and abetting a terrorist"?
They just want to test their new defense system the taxpayers forked out a trillion dollars for. Its called cocked pistol. But just wait for the rc bug bombs, Thay are working on a defense system that will cost three times the amount. Its working title is "fly Swatter".
Eliminating one reason is still a progress. What exactly makes you think that it makes all other reasons OK?
All that matters is whether the people in the hospital spread MRSA so whether or not any reason is "OK" or not is irrelevant.
Oh look, generalization pulled out of your ass.
Nope.
Catholic health systems have been criticized, along with other nonprofit hospitals, as not dedicating enough resources to the communityâ(TM)s benefit. But surveys also show that, on average, they provide higher-quality performance than other hospitals and are more likely to offer specialty services that are not profit centers. '
https://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/21/us/21nuns.html?pagewanted=all
What a meaningless drivel. Substitute Bible for any other book title (religious or not) and it is still right.
Really? That's the best you've got? With all your sputtering rage the best you can do is to ignore the fact that religious people look for direction from their scripture (part of your central criticism of such people) while most people don't look for direction from "any other book." Hypocrite.
I really don't care what particular brand of brain damage they have.
Sure as shit sounds like you do. All of your arguments amount to nothing more than tarring an entire group with the actions of a handful of extremists.
What's really funny is that you are demonstrating exactly what you are condemning. Statements like, "I believe that anybody who is older than 25 and still believes in a god should be euthanized" is pure irrational zealotry.
When information is power, privacy is freedom.
Eliminating one reason is still a progress. What exactly makes you think that it makes all other reasons OK?
All that matters is whether the people in the hospital spread MRSA so whether or not any reason is "OK" or not is irrelevant.
Oh look, generalization pulled out of your ass.
Nope. Catholic health systems have been criticized, along with other nonprofit hospitals, as not dedicating enough resources to the communityâ(TM)s benefit. But surveys also show that, on average, they provide higher-quality performance than other hospitals and are more likely to offer specialty services that are not profit centers. ' https://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/21/us/21nuns.html?pagewanted=all
Ah, " ... surveys also show that, on average ... " - generalization pulled out of author's ass.
What a meaningless drivel. Substitute Bible for any other book title (religious or not) and it is still right.
Really? That's the best you've got? With all your sputtering rage the best you can do is to ignore the fact that religious people look for direction from their scripture (part of your central criticism of such people) while most people don't look for direction from "any other book." Hypocrite.
Sputtering rage? At best mild amusement with a bit of pity and condescension. But don't worry, persecution complex is pretty much standard of any religious group. Why should I care if religious people look for direction in one book or another? They do stupid and irrational things, not surprise here. If they used "Hobbit" instead it would be exactly as much stupid. I wonder where you see any hypocrisy, probably you are just using a word you don't understand.
I really don't care what particular brand of brain damage they have.
Sure as shit sounds like you do. All of your arguments amount to nothing more than tarring an entire group with the actions of a handful of extremists.
So 'tarring entire group' somehow is the same as caring about differences between one bunch of religious nuts and another? Interesting, must be some kind of 'religious logic'.
What's really funny is that you are demonstrating exactly what you are condemning. Statements like, "I believe that anybody who is older than 25 and still believes in a god should be euthanized" is pure irrational zealotry.
Nice strawman. I hope it will be easier discussion opponent for you.
Ah, " ... surveys also show that, on average ... " - generalization pulled out of author's ass.
Hey, you want to hand-wave deny something that the editors and fact-checkers signed off on at one of the most prominent newspapers in this country, go ahead. Just don't expect it that will do your argument any bit of good.
So 'tarring entire group' somehow is the same as caring about differences between one bunch of religious nuts and another? Interesting, must be some kind of 'religious logic'.
I have no clue what two groups you think you are distinguishing between. Especially since you said that you don't care about any such differences.
Nice strawman. I hope it will be easier discussion opponent for you.
Really? A strawman you say? So you aren't defending the statement that "anybody who is older than 25 and still believes in a god should be euthanized?" If you aren't defending that, just wtf are you doing in this thread them? Really. What is your point? Because my participation here began and ended with the point that such a claim was absolutely ignorant and misguided.
When information is power, privacy is freedom.
The guy was 'defeated' because he wasn't a terrorist at all. He was stupid dupe of the FBI.
...voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country."
...... ahem - planning ? planning is not doing. so "Red Handed" is not quite accurate. Especially since all the things he was planning were fomented by who.....? Yes, once again "The FBI"
#1- He was recruited by the FBI so he was working for who....?
The FBI
#2 He received Fake weapons from who......?
The FBI
#3 He received funding from who.....?
The FBI
So - he never had any contact with the what.....?
Terrorists
So this whole thing was a hoax done by who.... ?
The FBI...........
Dear dipsxit I don't know how you missed it, because its required reading in almost every junior high school in america: What the FBI did here, was a rip-off of the plot of the book "1984" , with a twist of lemon.
Now dipsxit, Who said "Naturally, the common people don't want war; neither in Russia nor in England nor in America..... That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist dictatorship.
Was it Karl Rove, Dick Cheney, or Hermann Goring?
And where is this type of political campaign being practiced today?
If reading is too much of a bother, how about watching "Wag the Dog", or "Brazil", or even the movie, "1984".
He was caught "Red Handed"
I'm sorry I called you a dipshit. You're nothing but a tool. A tool with a dull finish.
Slightly off topic, but you're a dipsxit(sic)
Hiya troll! First of all, always start with an ad hominem. It really bolsters your own argument, doesn't it?
The guy was 'defeated' because he wasn't a terrorist at all. He was stupid dupe of the FBI.
And how did the FBI get to know of his plans in the first place?
Dear dipsxit I don't know how you missed it, because its required reading in almost every junior high school in america
I'm not an American, so sue me.
(Enter more blather about 1984)
Ok, so you wanna compare to 1984? According to O'Brien, Winston Smith had a chance to stick with the Party vs. carry on with Julia and read Emmanuel Goldstein's book. He chose the latter, and we know what happened next. Here's a fellow who given a chance, would actually go and get hold of an RC plane with explosives. It is moot whether the people supplying him were undercover FBI agents or terrorists themselves. He absoFUCKINGlutely knew what he wanted to do, and what the consequences would be. At any stage he could've backed out and refused to go along with it, or even gone to the cops himself. He chose not to.
I'm from India and I utterly loathe the vile politicians who have ruled us over the last 50 years, each more corrupt than the last. I would love to see their heads roll, doesn't mean that if someone hands me a sniper rifle and exhorts me to get rid of them I'll actually go postal on their asses. If I do, then I'm aware of what I'm getting into, and from their point of view, I am a threat BECAUSE I am actually acting on the impulse to kill them.
Consider that if it had been actual terrorists supplying this fellow and the FBI had not known what was going on, he might have actually done some harm. If someone is egging you on to commit a terrorist act, it is upto YOU whether you decide to go along with them, or report them to the authorities.
I'm sorry I called you a dipshit. You're nothing but a tool. A tool with a dull finish.
Take a chill pill and improve your reading comprehension before you go calling people names.
"..One hosts to look them up, one DNS to find them, and in the darkness BIND them."
I don't believe people should be arrested for smoking a bit of weed. I do, however, believe people should be arrested for plotting terrorist attacks on the US.
Now, chances are, if an undercover cop offered me a joint and a light, I'd say "no thanks, I don't smoke". Cause I actually don't.
So, chances are, if you're not a terrorist and an undercover cop offers you some C4 to use in a terrorist plot, you say "no thanks, I'm not a terrorist". Cause you're actually not.
Now if you are a terrorist, frankly I haven't much sympathy for you (whereas I do have sympathy for the guy busted for smoking some pot - not because I think it's unfair to catch them like that, but because I don't think what they're doing should be illegal).
http://motherjones.com/mojo/2011/09/recession-induced-homelessness-about-skyrocket
Competition is a waste product of monopoly [patent, copyright and license of the public commons are monopolies created by rule of law].
Economies d/n exist without competition. Economist are silenced as reality prevails. Regulatory, legal and personal ID rules coordinated with media propaganda are used to contain the behaviors of the restless, but often such rules generate responses that leads to martial law and civil unrest.
The silliness postulate states a model airplane toy is a weapons capable object. [So too is a pencil.] Recall WMD "enter Iraq" fear propaganda. The propaganda sells that "objects", develop the intention of a terrorist? See Academy of Model Aeronautics for silliness postulate evaluation.
http://www.facebook.com/modelaviation?sk=photos#!/photo.php?fbid=1562910960377&set=o.70528347733&type=3&theater
What, no post for the old, white guy in Michigan with over 4K lbs. of explosives? Whose plan was "when the government gets taken over, we will be mercenaries".
Slightly off topic, but you're a dipsxit(sic)
Hiya troll! First of all, always start with an ad hominem. It really bolsters your own argument, doesn't it?
Sorry, I thought you were a Fox news zombie-ite. Your total swallowing of the story, hook line and sinker, makes you look no smarter than Rezwan Ferdaus. So I was looking for the right word to describe the level of insipidness you displayed when you said: "This guy was defeated by the groundwork done by the FBI in tracking him, contacting him and then catching him red handed while he was planning the operation."
See let me see if I understand this - You want to give the FBI credit for good work done on "catching a terrorist" when all they did was seduce one socially isolated, depressed, unemployed 26 year kid who still lives with his parents??????
They caught nothing. They created a security theatre event in order to make news.
They would have been smarter to monitor him and see if he went and contacted an actual terrorist group. Then they could have used him for a stalking horse to actually find some real terrorists. Instead they are pretending for the news cameras complete with, yes really, Stage Props! They did a full-on, totally armored up, SWAT team deployed and helicopters overhead "ARREST ZE TERRORISTS!" when they "stormed" the "u-store-it". And they did all that when they KNEW the kid had nothing but stage props that they had supplied him with.
Fake C-4, tricked-up non-functional guns, WooHoo! thing going to be 'sploding now!
To be absolutely clear, the FBI did NOT CATCH A TERRORIST. They fooled a naive, possibly slightly mentally ill kid, into doing the things the FBI needed done in order for them to create a big news event.
How do you know that everything that he did wasn't suggested to him BY THE FBI? Because the odds are that's exactly what happened. Go look at the news reports and you'll see that he was "recruited", they came to him.
Yes, I'm pissed off - The FBI is supposed to work on security. Not making sure their department gets a good place in line at awards time or insuring they get a good chunk of the next budget go-round. They're wasting time, manpower and money that should have been much better used.
The guy was 'defeated' because he wasn't a terrorist at all. He was stupid dupe of the FBI.
And how did the FBI get to know of his plans in the first place?
"The FBI got to know of his plans in the first place" because AFTER they recruited him into their organization, they made it clear to him what he should do next. Its no different than what the Church of Scientology does when it gets a new vic.. err member, or for that matter not much different than what a terrorist recruiting cell does when they convince someone to join their cause. The FBI was giving him plans and/or nudging him in one direction or another and discussing it with him on an ongoing basis. Remember he didn't even bring a camera along when he went scope out the pentagon, so they gave him one to use!... LOL I can see it now. A big white panel van roaming around DC just stuffed full of everything your basic terrorist needs, all dolled out to them by the FBI.
I don't know how you missed it, because its required reading in almost every junior high school in america
I'm not an American, so sue me.
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to insult you that deeply. :-) ( btw , the author's British, the book has been incorporated into the educational curricula of many places around the world, but you're right. I shouldn't have assumed you were from the US. )
Here's a fellow who given a chance, would actually go and get hold of an RC plane with explosives. It is moot whether the people supplying him were undercover FBI agents or terrorists themselves. He absoF