Slashdot Mirror
Ubuntu 11.10 ('Oneiric Ocelot') Released
Cue the Ubuntu release parties — Ubuntu 11.10 has arrived. Ars Technica has a very positive summary of the changes in 11.10; Joe Brockmeier's piece of a few weeks back explains the return to Xen to Ubuntu and the introduction of Juju (formerly Ensemble). Asks an anonymous reader: "Any outstanding reasons why I shouldn't upgrade?" YMMV, but as a long-time Ubuntu user, and like many other users, I have mixed feelings about the concerted (and now complete) move away from a conventional WIMP interface to the new Unity. With previous versions, it was possible to choose a "classic" look rather than the default of Unity; now, for good or ill, the left-hand vertical menu is a permanent desktop element. It looks great to me, in the way the Canonical developers intend: as a consistent, replicable, supportable interface to recommend to (for instance) my parents — but I'm used to (and prefer!) more traditional WIMP environments, so at least for now have switched to Linux Mint's Debian Edition.
As an Ubuntu Member, and NOT a Canonical Employee, I take offense at the notion only Canonical folks do Ubuntu work.
Thanks.
about 3 releases ago, and I've never looked back.
g++ 4.5
C++0x is getting there slowly.
Unity is WIMP. There are windows, icons, menus, and a mouse pointer. The only difference is that there is a new taskbar that groups windows by application rather than by window.
been running the 10.x version on my netbook but I'm kinda used to that left handed vertical menu by now :D
I will update this thread if I have any gotchas
RB
----------
ah honey, we're all resplendent - Bill Mallonee
What the hell is this summary about... juju, WIMP...? I've been using linux for a long, long time and I have no idea what these things are. While I can't personally abide Debian or Ubuntu, a description would at least let me know if thare things I should check out or as is so often the case, begin compiling yet more packages so as to avoid them.
What distribution are we supposed to use now?
Ubuntu has given up on its users, and is turning into an interface for the elderly, the disabled and netbook people.
I'd rather have my advanced UI that lets me do whatever I want with my workstation, thank you very much.
Best thing to do is sudo apt-get install gnome-shell. Just go with Gnome 3 and shell and forget about Unity.
sudo apt-get install gnome-session-fallback
I think Onanistic Orangutan better captures the spirit of the naming process.
I don't understand... can't you just remove the unity package and install KDE or Gnome?
Why can't they go back to normal, respectable names, like Hairy Hardon or whatever?
Information theory is life. The rest is just the KL divergence.
The release after this is going to be called Precise Pangolin, which is an ant eater thing:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pangolin
Summation 2
subj
I've been trying Lubuntu out recently, and it's very nice. Simple and light, with a desktop interface by default and a netbook interface if you want it (I think it's the same one used in the original eee, actually). Xubuntu also works well, though it's not as light.
Wow.... its been a good run but, Unity just doesn't cut it for me.
I like where they are going with it, its cool, It was a fun toy, but, it was also klunky for me. Now, I know I am going to get roasted, but, sorry I used Unity for all of 3 days, so my memory may be fuzzy but....
I use multiple firefox profiles...at the same time. Often I have one that is a proxy into an internal net, and another that is public. Often i am doing things on the public one that I wouldn't want going over the private net. Think of this scenario... I have to proxy into work at night to fix a server, but, just before I was paged I was browsing porn. I don't want to be browsing porn through the proxy, and setting up foxy proxy with rules is just asking for an embarassing mistake. Actually, this is a rare scenario, but theres multiple networks I need to work in, and several of them I wouldn't want associated with my blog postings or slashdot rants.
Unity just failed to manage this at all. Part of this is, indeed, that firefox profile handling is brain damaged (if I specify a profile on the command line, why do I need "-no-remote"? shouldn't it be able to tell that the open window is a different profile and no I don't want to just connect to that?) but it would totally ignore the second profile. No way to get a second firefox dock icon, no way to deal with this, now rogue, application.
That was the real nail in the coffin for Unity, but beyond that....
I am an advanced user. I have things setup in GNOME the way _I_ want. Sure, I can rip out the unity stuff, it wouldn't be the first time that I went to down on an X Session config...but I chose ubuntu because it allowed me to minimize that shit. I like the defaults and found them easy to customize to be what I wanted. I like my setup and that Ubuntu has been fairly good about not stomping on my setup since I started using it around 6 or 7.
I will likely choose a new distribution if there isn't an easy way to not use unity.
"I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
You should always read the release notes before upgrading. For instance, anyone that has a Sandybridge laptop should not upgrade without looking at the Kernel section. There's currently a bug that causes 30% more power consumption in laptops and desktops with that platform.
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OneiricOcelot/ReleaseNotes
Yes, it's mostly still WIMP, but just different enough to be annoying, and for no apparent reason. Which is why so many people have been switching to Xubuntu lately (myself included). I see no reason to switch back to Ubuntu, unless someone can explain to me why this new Unity really IS easier to use than the standard WIMP interface.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
The standard WIMP has been around, mostly unchanged, for decades. Why change it?
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve your problem, you're not using enough of it. --AC
I actually kindof like Unity, but had to turn it off at work because it somehow causes Eclipse (Zend Studio) to become slow as molasses when editing files. (I ... e n t e r ... c h a r a c t e r s .... a n d ... t h e y ... t a k e ... s e c o n d s ... t o ... a p p e a r.) Don't know if the nvidia proprietary driver has something to do with it.
So, prey tell, if you've ran into the same problem, is it fixed?
.: Max Romantschuk
It is still Windows, Icon, Mouse, Pointing device. The primary difference is the buttons are bigger.
In the last decade, I felt like Open Source was constantly copying Windows 95 UI. Now it looks like they are copying NeXT UI. Which is an improvement, but can we please figure out something that works, and from there only add improvements to appearance (or new features)? Each Ubuntu release is like I have a completely new OS (until I open the command line and my life gets happier, but I pity people who can't do that).
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
Or away from Ubuntu completely as this isn't going to be the last thing they plunk into the distro prematurely. I'm just waiting to find out how they ruin KUbuntu and XUbuntu, because they don't seem to be trying as hard to run those versions into the ground.
I installed it a week ago while still in beta, and for the first time I didn't have to solve any unexpected situation, it was smooth. I actually rushed just to get an updated GIMP version (ppa never updated that version for 11.04, and the update fixes ORA support and single-window mode) , but didn't regret it.
Also, am I the only one that doesn't hate Unity? I don't use it, but I like what I see. I even adapted my KDE desktop to be kind of compliant (except for the shared menubar, I use panoramic and I have a setup of 1 big window and 3 side windows, and it's a mess to use a fixed menubar for all).
I jokingly name it Kunity: http://i.imgur.com/WvwDn.png
(The taskbar is Icon Tasks, a plasmoid that implements the Unity API. For launching I don't need dash, I use Kupfer. That that thing at the corner is a Conway's life plasmoid, I am addicted to that thing).
I see myself eventually using Unity2D if I ever dump KDE (2D to avoid lag when developing GL games. Some effects are hard to see with compositing enabled, I keep it disabled in KDE). And the Unity Launcher API is very fun to play with. Made myself a nice launcher for Zim and a way to switch firefox profiles very quickly in just 5 seconds (not literally, but less than 30 min. including checking the specs and examples).
I just finished migrating my whole home network from Xen to KVM 6 months ago because they dropped it in 10.04... Thanks for being consistant guys...
I was a long time Ubuntu user. When I upgraded to Ubuntu 11.04, I found that Unity was unusable. Forget opinions about the redesigned, touch-friendly interface: it was broken. Menu items not appearing; rampant graphics corruption in the menu bar; window dragging taking several seconds to redraw the window; lots more. Does anyone have impressions of how buggy Unity is in this new release?
(Yes, proprietary nvidia driver. Playing nice with it is non-negotiable. Gnome 3 and KDE both do.)
The unity look was one of the big reason I went back to Gentoo. The Ubuntu desktop looks like something meant for a 5 year old, not a serious computer user. Apart from that the constant updates and increased features no one needs, Ubuntu is now the Windows of the Linux world, the problem is I think most people want a Linux of the Linux world and that is no longer Ubuntu.
In the earlier 7.0 days and 6.0 days Ubuntu was the best distribution on the market but it's now turned into a big , bulky and down right horrible distribution for any serious user..
Thanks for posting about the release of the new Ubuntu version.
Too bad you chose to hijack the announcement to use it as a soapbox for stating your preference of Debian.
Essentially this is just your spam.
Come on mods, lets get this rubbish off the page!
Maurice W. Hilarius Voice: (778) 347-9907
They still haven't made any progress on the issue with multiple monitors whereby the left panel goes in a shitty place depending upon which screen is your main monitor. Mark Shuttleworth weighed in and basically said fuck you we're not fixing it. Even though ~50% of multiple monitor configurations are affected by this.
https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/668415
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/742544
SURELY NOT!!!!!
I'd rather have my advanced UI that lets me do whatever I want with my workstation, thank you very much.
Ubuntu never had an advanced UI. Ubuntu have always been easy and simple to use, without too many settings... When was Ubuntu geared towards developers?
Ubuntu have always been aiming broad, if super easy doesn't suit you (perhaps you wan't super efficient) then there's probably an Ubuntu derivative for you...
Are the application menus still stuck to the top of the screen instead of the applications? Think I'll skip it.
now, for good or ill, the left-hand vertical menu is a permanent desktop element. It looks great to me
Dealbreaker. The left-hand menu is not the only problem with Unity. Its dependence on the sluggish compiz wm is another.
I just got my mother (who is not very technical) to use ubuntu in 10 with the old UI. she adapted quickly to the applications ("Its like the start button, but awesome!") When I updated to unity all the text was gone, there was no way for her to dicern a running program in the background if she needed to close something for memory on the netbook. Its awful. She went from a several hour a day netbook user for different simple tasks to closing the thing and putting it in the corner after days of trying to get used to it. As soon as I put gnome back on it with 10.x she went straight back to using it like normal.
If a user has any familiarity of what a windows pc looks like, unity is an awful choice for them.
I love how more and more 'power users' start complaining about Unity and how ubuntu is becoming such a 'mainstream' OS, so they all switch to other distros. You DO know you can easily install a different window manager? Granted, I'm not a fan of Unity and I don't think it should be the Ubuntu default, but I'm not about to switch distros when I can switch to gnome in a minute and be done with it.
I first started using Ubuntu around 5.10 and currently use 10.04 long-term release and won't "upgrade" for a few reasons:
- I haven't tried Unity, but from what I've seen of it, there seems to be a lack of options in customizing the desktop, and my desktop is currently customized to be exactly the way I want it to be. I realize I can spend time removing the things I don't want and then installing the things I do want, and then customizing all that stuff, but really I'm disinclined to expend a lot of effort just for the sake of getting back to the point I'm already at;
- as far as I can tell, the last reliable real-time version of Ubuntu is 10.04 using the 2.6.31rt kernel - I check every now and then if there's been any progress on real-time capability on the newer Ubuntu releases, and all I ever seem to come across are posts about later versions breaking real-time dependent programs (I would love to be proven wrong on this!);
- as someone else pointed out, I'm not really looking for a radical change with each upgrade. I have a release that works very well, that I've invested a lot of time customizing and configuring, and unless there are some advantages, I don't really see the point (ie having the menu bar on the left all of a sudden doesn't strike me as any sort of "improvement"; it just seems different for different's sake).
When I first moved over to Linux, I was very pleased with Ubuntu, but for me it seems to have jumped the shark somewhere around 8.04 or so. I think I'll likely try Mint when support for 10.04 stops.
any interface that requires typing the name of the program or file you want to be used effectively is an enormous mistake in my opinion. Though I can type properly, the world is still and probably always will be filled with hunt-and-peck typers that will struggle with interfaces like this. I am severely disappointed by the direction that linux desktops have been going lately. Unity and Gnome 3 shell can kiss my ass. If the other desktop environments take this route too, I will have to abandon linux entirely. If only someone would fork Gnome 2 into its own project and continue it. I really enjoyed how functional and customisable it was.
Personally, I don't care if they're on the top or the bottom, as long as I can launch programs and manipulate windows without having to work too hard.
I think UI designers get a bit of tunnel vision, and try to "over-design" their features to make things easier... which actually makes them harder. Frankly, I don't spend a lot of time launching applications, but I use them for hours (or days) at a time. So if Unity can save me a click or two on launch, it's an insignificant savings compared to the hours I'll spend actually using that app. I can understand if they want to look ahead to the advent of multi-touch displays on the desktop, but those aren't here yet. In the meantime, Unity is little more than a curiosity, and should NOT be the default interface for a "major" OS.
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve your problem, you're not using enough of it. --AC
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
I have to disagree with this one. My motto is, "if it ain't broke, fix it until it breaks." I think the Ubuntu devs and the GNOME devs have taken my motto to heart. Unfortunately, I don't like their alternatives. No big deal, there are plenty of other options, both within the -buntu family and without..
Geology - it's not rocket science; it's rock science
now, for good or ill, the left-hand vertical menu is a permanent desktop element
It is? I'm running Enlightenment as a WM and I don't see it...
How on earth did we go from noobs complaining that there were no defaults to noobs complaining that there are no choices so quickly, when the truth is that there have been defaults and choices all along? /o\
I mod down anyone who says "I will be modded down for this", regardless of the rest of their comment
Windows 11
Mod me up/Mod me down: I wont frown as I've no crown
I for one will be switching due to driver bugs. The Unity interfaces uses desktop acceleration which for whatever reason STILL has issues with mplayer going full screen. Using the classic desktop makes the issues go away. If anyone has heard of this and has any ideas I'm all ears. Neither the nvidia.com drivers, or the open source drivers work correctly with Unity + Mplayer full screen. Although it's been at least since the previous Ubuntu release that I've tested it.
Yes, it's mostly still WIMP, but just different enough to be annoying, and for no apparent reason.
Reasons:
1. GNOME devs already wish they worked for Apple, and it shows.
2. Ubuntu/Unity devs wish they were Apple.
3. Shuttleworth got an iPad.
4. Shuttleworth apparently not only had his mouse and keyboard stolen, he also had his arms cut off and can now only operate computers with his nose. He thus expects every computer he uses to be an iPad.
5. Combine the above four points and Ubuntu becomes an iPad, whether you ungrateful bastards with ARMS on your torsos like it or not.
6. Stupid people with arms. All a bunch of uncaring assholes. Every one of you.
And then I posted on the help forums. Asked the developers to share their drugs with me so that I could understand why these changes and hindrances that didn't exist before were now necessary. They did not respond, or share their hard mind altering drugs with me. So it's like I was disappointed twice. Very sad.
This signature has Super Cow Powers
The unity look was one of the big reason I went back to Gentoo.
So you are willing to put in the effort and energy to get Gentoo running but won't put in the effort to install your preferred desktop environment (or even just click "ubuntu classic" in the menu at login) in Ubuntu?
"I don't where my keys are so rather than look for them I'll walk 30 miles in the snow to work"
This always bears reminding.
"This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
WIMP stands for "window, icon, menu, pointing device", which you have with 11.04 I think what the author is complaining about is that Unity (or Gnome3) are not what I call "windows 95" clones. We have had this disease in computing ever since Windows 95 that every interface has to look like Windows 95. Think about it, Windows 2000, XP, Vista, Windows 7, KDE, Gnome 2.x were ALL essentially copies of the Windows 95 user interface. (Gnome 1.x was more of a CDE clone). All of these had some basic things like start bar and a "desktop" with files and program links. So, instead of using the term WIMP, the author should have used something like "Windows 95 based" user interface. No, I am not particularly fond of Unity, not because its different, in fact a choice between Gnome 2.x or Unity, I would choose Unity. I do however MUCH prefer Gnome 3, its much more polished, consistent, customizable (css/javascript), the workflow is well thought out, and Gnome3 does not use a unified Mac menu thats hacked onto applications that were simply not intended for a unified menu bar. I for one am ecstatic that we are finally moving away from Windows 95 being the gold standard for user interfaces.
That's the real question we now have to ask: how much Mono trojan code has to be stripped out and is it still possible to do so?
If / when I do upgrade my Linux box, it will probably be either Mint or straight Debian. Ubuntu (read: Shuttleworth) still can't decide if it wants to be Windows or OSX, but has decided it no longer wants to be Linux.
It's easier because someone else thinks it is.
I personally think it lowered useability 10 fold. it is not a PITA to find apps, and configuration went from granular to fisher price mess.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Forgive me if this is off topic, but I just wanted to get my views out there with this new release.
Unity or no, the real problem is that simple tasks are not that simple. In simple terms, that simple people can understand.
I booted a live cd of Ubuntu and had 2 hard drives, main drive and storage drive. I wanted to prepare (wipe) the storage drive and backup everything in the main drive.
However, I found that the secondary drive was readonly (I couldn't make a directory). Without knowing how to prep the drive or under what circumstance, it almost stopped me from continuing until I read some articles about how to unmount it, the fact that journaling was enabled, all enough to make my head spin.
So I went on a crusade (just for fun) to track down a GUI based tool to let me wipe my drive and control the properies (like RENAME FFS). Almost none exist. Sure I eventually got to GPARTED or whatever it's called, but the point is, there is no easy, straight forward way to do things which Windows users are used to doing.
About once a year I try to go LINUX ONLY on my desktop and I would consider myself a poweruser on windows, but I keep getting frustrated by the eventual lack of something working, something not working, or having no idea how to have an app start on startup without editing some seemingly random txt file in a some subset of folders (see what I did there?) which I don't understand.
Linux leaves me feeling stupid that I don't know how to do simple tasks. So I go back to Windows.
The only distro I tried which kind of tried to address this is Puppylinux, but even then, I got stopped when I tried to install an app which wasn't puppy approved or some nonsense. I'm sure it could have been done, just not easily.
So now, I've got a Kbuntu system at home I tried, came back, frozen screensaver. Common problem which the only resolution to is to install a new screensaver app and guess what? Edit more text files.
I used to get excited about the "year of the linux" but truth is, even within its own community it fights "GNOME vs KDE", "Debian vs Ubuntu". So now I just think it's a bunch of people doing really cool things, competing for a dwindling user base who finds they will not invest time and energy into learning/fixing new things via text files and who are longing for a real alternative to Microsoft, but linux always comes up short.
Well if anyone knows of good user-based distro's which speak and step people through the basics of its innerworkings, let me know, I'd love to try it and get my family, friends, and business associates off of Microsoft!
Yo Grark
Canadian Bred with American Buttering
OK. I will begin bitching. I have been burned so many times by non-LTS (non long term support) Ubuntu releases that I am not even willing to consider installing them any more. Random regressions that you discover one week into your install that cost you time and that will be fixed "in the next release." I don't care if Ocelot is perfect for you and your uncle and your third cousin; chances are, when I install it, something relevant to me will have been broken and bug reports will be marked WON'T FIX because the devs are already focused on the next release.
Non-LTS releases are alpha software to me, and LTS releases are beta software that turns relatively stable two weeks into the release.
That said, I have never been burned by waiting two weeks for the Ubuntu LTS releases and then installing. That one tends to be a quality product. I'm looking forward to seeing it!
Server has an error haha. competition anyone?
Can't do dual monitors using various nvidia drivers. Seems compiz is always segfaulting somewhere around interaction with libunity. Posted bug reports, seems that dual monitor support isn't the biggest concern.
Will definitely prevent me from upgrading. I hate Fedora, but I installed 16 beta and had dual monitor support no problems using gnome 3.
I agree, but when I used Fedora it was even buggier. You can choose between up-to-date and stable. Writing this from 10.04 LTS.
Learn something new every day - I was going to suggest "sudo bash", others have suggested "sudo -i" and "sudo su" which should also work. All will give you a root shell.
fencepost
just a little off
It's called MacOS X. UNIX for the rest of us.
I'm afraid that Ubuntu may have gone off the rails. I know of a number of hard core Ubuntu users that have switched distros.
... I do believe it says all that needs to be said.
IT Admins Group: Where you decide the content
Yes, Fedora did change to Gnome 3 with version 15 and now 16. Gnome 3 is probably the second worst desktop I've ever used, but I can see where it has HUGE potential and I look forward to watching it grow up over the next 2 years. Unity being, of course, the single worst steaming pile of crap since Microsoft BOB.
Ubuntu used to translate as "Can't install Debian". But that's all changed now. I would recommend going with the newest Debian or rolling back to the last LTS of Ubuntu. (10.10 I think?) Crunchbang is also a very good choice, but for how long? Which begs the question, how long until ~everyone~ drops Gnome 2?
Wow, I'm glad I started using Ubuntu in 2007 - Finally painless display setup. 2008 brought painless stereo audio setup, and 2009 painless 5.1 sound via S/PDIF: Glory be! 2010 brought ... Unity?! I usually love experimenting with new interfaces, but this clearly had not been tested by real humans on real hardware.
Mint still has the old Gnome for now, the major downside is that it is run by kids who think raping Google is a good way to get me to give them money... NO IT IS NOT.
But once you reconfigured all your browsers to not use a custom search and removed the stupid motto from the command line it is Ubuntu as it should be.
really, I got to wonder about the Linux distro's. Is there some curse on 2011 so they had to make sure that 2011 ABSOLUTLY had NO FUCKING chance of becoming the year of the linux desktop?
It is sad, Ubuntu made linux so easy I installed it for several people who used to get their windows corrupted within a month. They had NO problems switching to Linux whatsoever. Even the buttons on the left didn't throw them. Then comes the 11.04 update, they just click okay because that is what they told them to do and now they are all back on windows.
Good work Shuttlecock. You are loosing the experience AND the in-experienced at the same time. Getting tired of having money?
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Debian is to Ubuntu what grass is to a steak. Grass is turned into a steak but no amount of frying and pepper is going to make grass taste good without the intervention of a cow.
Happy grass eating. I am going to get me a nice juicy dead cow.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
I have been running Linux as my primary OS since the early Yggdrasil days and have been along for the UI ride ever since. Switching to Unity was something I had to force myself to do. I was full of rage for the first week and annoyed on the second week but once I adapted to doing things a new way I now really like it. The version of Unity included with 11.10 is much more polished and works very well on my multi-headed setup and the 2D version runs very well on systems that don't play nice with 3D accelerated version.
Another interesting thing: All of my users that have had the option to use Unity have loved it. I thought they would freak out but every single one has been very pleased. That is a pretty huge point.
So if Unity can save me a click or two on launch, it's an insignificant savings compared to the hours I'll spend actually using that app.
Which is why having the application menu close to the application is important. Having it at the top of the screen is not only inconvenient (except for maximized applications), it also disassociates elements of the user interface. The desktop menu, launcher, etc., by comparison, should be somewhere consistent on the desktop.
So exactly how much closer is Ubuntu now to OSX? Because Shuttleworth is trying awfully damn hard to mimic it.
Even when you set the window control buttons back to the right and switch back to a standard GUI instead of one that makes my PC look like a glorified netbook, dialog buttons are still backwards to me, and I don't believe there's a way to change that short of recompiling with a flag set. Or, you know, use a different distro, but that's not the point. What next, are we going to make file menus go right-to-left too? How about putting window controls at the bottom, just to really throw people for a loop?
Ubuntu is starting to feel like Windows to me in a way. People (like myself) want to use it because that's where the majority of users seem to be, and that encourages developers to support a particular platform and make a better OS overall which is more likely work out of the box with everything I want. But at the same time, the company in charge of Ubuntu makes design decisions I don't like, so I'm either left dealing with it and going to trouble to straighten their mess out, or switching to a less popular distro which might result in more effort to make other things work as seamlessly in the future.
I run Debian on servers, where personally I feel it's better suited than a desktop. But at this rate, I may end up going back to it for desktops as well, despite their dislike of proprietary software (aka software everyone needs if they intend to have a modern computing experience).
The problem is that you can go too stable. For instances, most packages are already quite obsolete by the time they make it into Debian's stable branch.
"It is a denial of justice not to stretch out a helping hand to the fallen; that is the common right of humanity."
Obsolete and old is not the same thing. I'm using a still supported system from 2004 on some of my servers, it's stable and boring but it works and does the job and will continue to do so for many years. And that's actually not that unusual for those kinds of systems. I would day that 10.04 is not even new yet.
The problem is that you can go too stable.
PPAs are your friend. After trying 11.04 Natty and discovering that after 6 months Canonical still hasn't solved a jerky window problem between Compiz and the nvidia driver, I "upgraded" to 10.10 Maverick.
Add in a bunch of PPAs and I've got up-to-date versions of all the software that I really care about,
"I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
As a Mint and SUSE user, this Unity thing doesn't affect me, and hopefully it never will.
Desktops are desktops and tablets are tablets. This trying to shove a tablet interface up everyone's ass whether they're using a tablet or not is very very wrong.
I just bought a laptop off the shelf, wiped it, and installed Ubuntu. Everything worked automagically, from the wifi to the webcam, to the noise cancelling mic, SD card slot, even the brightness/volume keys worked. Sleep worked without a hitch. I really didn't have to do anything at all apart from installing a few apps I wanted, such as VLC, Chromium, and that's it, I was good to go. Scanner/printer/fax was detected and worked great. Battery life is great too. Sorry you had so much trouble, I guess it's that last 1% that will really make the difference. Glad we're almost there!
Twinstiq, game news
What about security patches? I guess you can't get them for your 2004 system as those versions aren't supported anymore.
OK, I have defended Unity and Ubuntu 11.04. Using CCSM I managed to shrink down the ugly-assed icons on the launcher to 32 pixel size, turned off auto-hide, got a pretty functional system. It was all working really nice, I could do what I wanted.
Today, I was really excited to upgrade. It sounded as if Canonical had done a lot of work improving 11.10 and the Unity experience. I was particularly looking forward to the updated dash, with lenses incorporated smoothly and with the ability to search music etc.
WHAT THE FCUK?? So I do the install, choose a different wallpaper than the default, and click on the dash. AND THE FUCKING THING IS UNREADABLE because of the new background transparency that adjusts the dash background to your wallpaper along with a blur effect.
Basically, unless you have a dark desktop wallpaper and you have no applications open, a lighter wallpaper or anything you have anything open - libreoffice, firefox - with white space on it and it is under the dash, the WHITE TEXT on the dash becomes FUCKING UNREADABLE over the white space of the application behind it. And this transparency can not be configured.
Same problem for the new alt-tab. Its partially transparent and has FUCKING WHITE LETTERING SO IT IS FUCKING UNREADABLE AGAINST LIGHT BACKGROUNDS!
AND THERE IS NO WAY TO CONFIGURE THIS SHIT. AND BUGS HAVE BEEN FILED ABOUT IT. AND NOTHING HAS BEEN DONE!!! So all this hard work to make a dash that for me is functionally useless.
This is bullshit. Bullshit.
How the upgrade went for me:
https://plus.google.com/107108301644814045788/posts/SS1nnjt9L6K
Yeah, I did the same with Firefox and KToon. And I think that's kind of ideal: you get old and stable in infrastructure packages, and new in applications.
I gave Unity a fair try--4 weeks. It killed my performance. I could never find my scrollbars, and the hideaway menus were extremely annoying. Honestly, the reason I don't have an Apple system is because I. Cannot. Stand. Apple's. Interface. When I use my computer I want to be productive, not masturbate to beautiful icons.
I have been a big Ubuntu fan for a long time, but if they want to force me to use the crap called Unity, then I'm gone.
Do what you can, with what you have, where you are.
No, they are fully supported and security patches are available. I should probably have mentioned that they are not Ubuntu.
How do you do this with Windows?
Can you please start the explanation how you prepare a Windows liveCD for booting from it?
Thanks in advance.
wow ... won't fix. portrait mode is getting harder and harder to use. between 16:9 aspect ratios (1080 wide) and this "design decision" to *fix* the panel to the left side, you've probably only got 1024 useable pixels - cutting edge when XGA came out back in 1991
guess i'll try it on my laptop and see what i think. but on the desktop, it sounds brutal for anyone that prefers portrait mode - you get almost twice as many lines of code on the screen in portrait as you do in landscape, but those horizontal pixels become precious. i splurged and went 1920x1200, so i'm not in terrible shape - though the viewing angle is so bad, i have to keep the lcd turned 5 degrees
My blog
> "for good or ill, the left-hand vertical menu is a permanent desktop element"
What if I'm not right-handed? Or my monitor is taller than it is wide?
I do wish developers would stop assuming everyone without exception is similar to them and theirs.
There is a learning curve. You have been using Windows for so long, it produces a false impression of near-0 learning curve, but that's not true.
I switched my entire family to Ubuntu, including my 83 year old grandpa. Success outside of family has been very minimal, because as soon as the user cannot find his wireless icon in the spot he is used to (and I don't feel like visiting his house to show it), he immediately wants to go back to windows and stay there forever. As a disclaimer I can point out that he is a lawyer, results may vary depending on the technical savvy of the client.
Having some UNIX background helps. I periodically had to troubleshoot stuff, but for the last year did not need to touch a thing. It just works. Run dual boot for a year or two until you become comfortable and can switch completely. Meanwhile you can try to get rid of hardware with poor linux drivers, and make sure that all your new purchases are supported: things like printers, laptops, network cards.
Is not this release using Unity as well ? Just curious! Where will Mint go from here I wonder?
Try one that has GNUSTEP on it. I have this one, but I do have the problem that I can only run it on CD - won't install as is (it's other drawback is that it defaults to zsh, and doesn't allow one to create user accounts). Best idea - start w/ Debian, and then install GNUSTEP on top of it. I'd have thought that GNUSTEP would be the default development environment for developers. Personally, I'd love a distro that offered me GNUSTEP and KDE as the 2 choices. With the latter, I'd get all the KDE apps, and w/ the former, I'd get an easy to navigate UI, and not have to go to the CLI often.
OP is wrong again.
Install gnome-session-fallback. then you choose 'gnome classic'. which is gnome3, but the interface looks like gnome2. heres a screenshot of my ubuntu desktop with gnome-session-fallback
http://imageshack.us/f/833/screenshotat20111013164.png/
I used to recommend that people could upgrade Ubuntu a few weeks prior to release.
Now I recommend that one should wait a few months after release, as 11.04 and 11.10 are increasingly unstable, and with Wayland coming I expect things to get worse.
At this point, I would suggest Debian.
It seems like Debian 'testing' is more stable than the current Ubuntu release.
I have KDE 3.5, which is very customizable, but in comparison to it, Gnome 2.x was hardly customizable. Go to the Control Center in KDE, and you can do pretty much anything. Gnome doesn't have anything even comparable. As an example, I could start a session in KDE, then from there, start another session and log in either as a different user, or the same user in another DE. No way can I do that w/ Gnome. It's claimed that one can, but if that's even possible, that feature is well hidden. And I love the fact that KDE has a complete range of applications like KOffice, Konqueror, Krita, et al (albeit too many music/video players), whereas w/ Gnome, it's the same old, same old - LibreOffice, Firefox/Iceweasel (what's w/ the latter?) and so on.
If this is version 11.10, how is the name starting w/ 'O'? O is the 15th letter of the alphabet, not the 11th. So we had 4 named, but un-numbered versions of Ubuntu?
I might be wrong, but I don't think he's talking about the launcher. He's said the "application menus". That's the thing you'll be spending all your time in, the application, and if its menus are moved to the top of the screen (like on a Mac), that's a significant change (argue good/bad as you see fit - personally, I don't like it).
I love the idea of Macintosh, but the desktop is frankly horrible.
Maybe that's my problem, always been using it on older hardware because I never wanted to give my good hardware to it until it was proven.
Although an athlon 2500 with a gig of ram I would have thought would be pretty detectable. And the wireless IS a usb, so more problems there, but it's no different from windows, "install driver" no problem.
Want to install this RPM? just chmod a few letters which mean nothing in a terminal you don't understand and you're there!
I just want to doubleclick the driver and have it work, not prompt me to extract it then have no idea how to run it.
But again, that's from a windows mentality, but its what people really do think when they try Linux for the first time!
Canadian Bred with American Buttering
With every new iteration of Ubuntu something has been left out and features removed until now Ubuntu has the look, feel and attitude of Windows. Now we have to take it or leave it? If it were not for the Zorins and Mints of this world we would be screwed. It has been a great thing for Mr. Shuttleworth to advance Linux. But I guess apsolute power.......
penguin
I use OS X and Ubuntu.
I really don't see what the problem is with Unity. It's different from Gnome, the menu-at-the-top-thing is a bit odd, but apart from that it has some nice touches, some design decisions that are a bit odd.
As others have pointed out; if you think Unity is so bad, switch to Gnome, but I really don't think it makes all that much difference. I login to Ubuntu and launch a shell, occasionally I use the software centre etc. Likewise, I use a Mac, launch the terminal, occasionally search for something through Spotlight.
What's the big deal? For developers especially, the difference seems very small. It's for inexperienced users that GUIs make the biggest difference.
RS
"without the elderly, the disabled and netbook people, there'd be no developers!"
apologies to Mel Brooks, "To Be or Not To Be" 1983
File access permissions is a frequent stumbling block, but at the same time this is one of the main things I like about UNIX, especially in the age of World Network and constant siege by malware that comes with it. This way my stuff is guaranteed to be secure from users B, C and E, and the system (root) is safe from suspicious crap I download and execute on my account. :) and set permissions through a menu.
Usually things I download from web have correct permissions granted to me automatically (except execute).
"chmod +rwx filename" means grant read/write/execute permissions for this file. You will need to prefix sudo if the file is not owned by you. You can also right-click on file in Nautilus (Linux Explorer
I was lucky to learn this stuff at college, approximately at the same time as i started to dislike the other, inferior (D)OS.
I bought a new netbook (ASUS eeepc) one week ago and decided to give unity a good go. I actually like the dock thing on the left. I like the way it unifies "starting" and "displaying". Its one less thing to worry about. But the version in 11.04 is buggy as all hell. Every morning I struggle with firefox. Unity opens it on the laptop screen (according to the top bar) and doesn't display it anywhere. Then I click the top bar and it displays on the laptop screen but with no way to move it to the external monitor. By experiment I found that I can use ALT+drag on the very top of the firefox window to drag it to the external monitor, then I maximize it all all is well.
Terminals are worse. At one point unity became convinced that the bottom of the terminal window was at the top of the laptop screen and the top of the terminal window was in the middle of the same screen so it displayed the entire terminal upside down. It seems to allow some windows to be resized to have a negative height.
I am upgrading to 11.10 right now and I will see how I go. Time remaining 1 day and 21 hours ;)
http://michaelsmith.id.au
For what it is worth I think the apple desktop is pretty horrible (from using my wife's macbook) and unity, while not perfect, is an improvement.
http://michaelsmith.id.au
Just upgraded from Natty. I didn't expect much in the way of change, but Ocelot is better in every way. It's more evolution than revolution, but nearly every change is for the better.
So far I've liked:
The new Alt+Tab.
The audio is fixed (it was buggy in Natty, with popping sounds whenever audio was stopped or started)
The animations are smoother, I had needed to disable 'sync to vblank' on Natty.
When menus were changed in Natty there was a brief white shadow that was annoying but not any more.
VLC had a bug in Natty that made the audio and video out of sync, this seems fixed too.
I think there were some more things but I can't remember them. Best of all of course is the Win7 style taskbar and the start menu with search, finally something to match the best feature of Win7, but that came with Natty.
The OP is not the only who really hates Unity. Judging from the majority of the comments, there are very few who actually like it, so the OP is fairly inline with his post.
I used SLS (Softlanding) for a year, Slackware for three years, then Red Hat for about three more years, then Debian for about nine years or so, and then Ubuntu for the past three years. I haven given Unity a chance for a couple of days and, frankly, it is time to go back to Debian again.
Sound seems to be headphones-only but that's still an improvement over requiring an external dongle for any sound at all.
Lubuntu has been developing nicely. If you liked old Gnome set up in classic 'windows' start-menu style, then Lubuntu understands that. Here's your 'Ubuntu'-backed distro with that GUI.
Don't write-off Lubuntu as yet another "lightweight", which has meant a heavily stripped-out interface with repeated visits to the CLI for setup and configurations. They've been doing an excellent job of supplying all the expected dialogs.
Only caveat is this is their first release in the regular Ubuntu distro stream. Keep your eyes open. But I like 11.04 a whole lot. This is the classic GUI - simple, but not feature free. Lubuntu really does seem to be the happy, carefree way forward for those of us who don't want Unity.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lubuntu#Lubuntu_11.10
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu
Although I now prefer Mint after having a great experience with Mint-10 (Ubuntu Maverick), Mint-11 seems to have dropped some features I had liked and is not nearly so rock-stable, so I am shopping for a new and STABLE -- meaning chromium won't go 'snap' and kill all my tabs and panel applets won't disappear and reappear on reboots. Mint-10 would have uptimes of weeks, and never really need to be rebooted; 11 is more quirky -- but, to be fair, is seems to have improved over time.
This doesn't seem to be Canonical's fault entirely; I had used and loved SimplyMEPIS in the past, based on my experience with 6,0 I tried SimplyMepis-11 and KDE-4 loses me entirely. I cannot grasp its concept of 'activities.' Isn't this what virtual desktops are for? And Kwin crashed regularly for me. I have been a KDE user since version 1.0 (Caldera Open Linux-1.3) and I wished I could find it stable or even usable, but I cannot. Perhaps I will upgrade to Mepis-8.5.
Or I may go back to Red Hat. I used their 6.2 version for almost five years as a desktop machine, upgrading libraries as needed to allow newer and newer versions of Netscape, Opera, Sylpheed, Pan, VLC and kernels to be installed until Linux's move to the 2.x series of kernels and glibc and GCC changes made upgrading impossible. So CentOS (RHEL-6.1) is looking pretty good to me about now.
Canonical seems to have decided their future lies in tablets and smart devices. Perhaps that's where the money will be. But a computer needs a more complete operating system than a device does. Dumbing down Linux is a poor idea; Excluding full desktop environments from distros solely because they need to fit on a CD-ROM when DVD drives are nearly ubiquitous in most of the world not smart.
So, I'll install Ocelot, I guess, and give it a try. Mebbe in virtualization on Ultimate Edition 2.6.3 (Lucid with all updates). Sure it's lurid, but it's stable -- I used it before Mint and it broke only through upgrading through Maverick to Natty.
Which seems to prove the point.
I prefer Blackbox's (and OpenBox and Fluxbox) use of a right mouse click to bring up the application menu and the scroll wheel to switch between desktops.
I prefer to open applications by clicking on the file I want to work on in a file manager window, but I like to use the mouse to open applications without an associated file, like a browser or mail client or a terminal window.
Ubuntu still using the arcane titles chosen by the coders for it's applications? Fail. e.g. Totem should be called "Video Player". Ubuntu is never going to be as good as it can be until all of the un-intuitive app names are changed to normal ones (an Alias is fine, keep it's original name in the About menu). Then it doesn't matter what apps are swapped in the back end, people don't care as long as "Video Player" is still there and it works. How long has this gone on for? yeah really.
True dat.
Don't upgrade until the next LTS, and then make sure it is .1
As in 8.04.1, 10.04.1.
Next upgrade comes at 12.04.1... maybe.
In actuality most of my desktop-replacement laptops are 7 to 8 years old, the only really new machine is the file server.
All the laptops have Intel graphics chips, and as a result they still run 8.04
The file server runs Debian stable.
Yes! Nothing new should ever be done until it's completely broke! Genius!
I can't believe people are still bitching about a task bar.
So why don't you install Debian and be done with it?
Hey, I finally got my first freak! Took you long enough!
When I tried the beta last week after my HD broke... I had to give up on Ubuntu and go back to 10.10 when I saw there was no classic interface. :-(
I simply had to do one thing... attach a user to a specific group. But no, there are no graphic interface for that.
You have to install a tool to manage that! That's nonsense, no?
Ubuntu is supposed to be the simplicity! If I have to go to the terminal to do everything, then it lost its logic...
Their interface is nice and even it still need some improvement, it's not a distro for working environment any more
Maybe you need to turn your mouse speed up. I find it much faster to bang the mouse pointer to the top of the screen than to try and hunt for a thin bar somewhere in the middle of the screen.
Here's my very positive summary: Based on my experiences, Unity is a steaming pile of crap!
Baseline Ubuntu has lost me as a user forever now. My laptops all run Xubuntu and my main desktop will be sticking with Ubuntu 11.04 in classic mode until the next time I have to reinstall, at which point it will also go to another distro.
Unity is the Windows ME of the Linux world and will not be inflicting its horrors on me or those I support.
Don't know about the parent but I tried this recently myself, less then two months ago. LMDE, Gnome Debian, etc. none of them booted on my laptop. Ubuntu was the only thing that booted and had no problems out of the box after install. My laptop is brand new, i7, Geode 350M, 8 GB ram.
I recently installed LMDE in a VM on a different computer and got it running without issues but it's ugly. Ubuntu looks much better, however you can't seem to install the ubuntu theme because it requires gtk2-engine-pixmap or something which doesn't exist. Basically I just wanted to get the Radiance GTK+ theme on my Debian install but no go so i'm stuck with all these ugly looking themes regardless of how many gtk engines I install.
I'd love it if it weren't for the fact that you have to mouse over the top bar to get an application menu. I still can't understand what having to mouse over the top bar is supposed to achieve, other then confuse newcomers.
"The most dangerous enemy of a better solution is an existing codebase that is just good enough." -- Eric S. Raymond
I completely disagree. It's great as it means I never have to take my hands off the keyboard.
Win key -> type firef -> hit enter - boom firefox opens
Alt Key -> press one of the numbers for a docked program like the terminal -> boom opens
Alt Key -> hold shift and one of the numbers -> opened a new terminal
All without slowing me down with a mouse.
It's is much more usable. It's just not accessible which is what you're complaining about, but it's to be expected to have a learning curve with any new UI.
Ok I've now spent 3 hours trying to get file and printer sharing working on this dumb distro. Something that used to work out of the box. I doesn't seem to work at all. I think this is the last straw. I'm going to try to find another distro.
So what are you running?
This is what beefs me about people complaining about gnome 3 saying "if you want something that works like windows, just use windows". what? gnome 3 is NOTHING like windows! They go on to describe how they've switched to XFCE. Which has an application (start) menu...
What really bugs me about Ubuntu is that I can't just upgrade the apps. I don't want the new Unity desktop. It sucks. So why can't I just upgrade the applications I want to use ?
In Windows I just download the latest installation package and run the thing. But in Linux it's all or nothing.
Unity is so bad it makes Vista look like a triumph of design.
I remember trying it and it doesn't have an alt-f2 run command to open programs. That is what killed it for me.
I started with Debian and moved to Ubuntu some years ago. I preferred GNOME, because it was most like what I was used to with Windows and Debian. I now use Kubuntu 11.10 after playing with multiple other distros in an effort to escape Unity and GNOME 3.
No specific DE or interface style is inherently superior to another, as people's tastes, usage patterns and hardware vary greatly. That being said, there is a reason I suspect many people will be more productive and happier using a DE other than GNOME 3 or Ubuntu's Unity. Both environments are one size fits all. Customization options are almost non-existent. Whether it's main menus, window management, themes, panel sizing and positioning, panel applets, desktop management or what have you, it's just not there. Want a floating panel? Tough shit. Symlinks on the desktop? Too damn bad. Have a triple-head setup that's no longer effective? Just disconnect two of the monitors and you'll be fine.
Something I noticed about Kubuntu (and KDE in general obviously) is that it is INSANELY customizable. Incredibly I was able to set it up on my dual-head system to work exactly like GNOME 2.x. The only exceptions are that it looks absolutely beautiful and the depth and quality of its core tools are markedly superior.
I don't think Unity versus GNOME 3 versus GNOME 2.x is a valid argument. It's about how much room each offers to tailor the experience to your liking without having to take a hatchet to your system (Ubuntu is supposed to be easy, right?). Here's my setup:
http://www.eightvirtues.com/misc/Kubuntu%2011.10.jpg
Buy your next Linux PC at eightvirtues.com
Step 1: Choose the basic command line install on the Ubuntu "alternate" ISO.
Step 2: Add your favorite packages.
Step 3: Go to: http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/
and grab the latest Ubuntu kernel (v3.1-rc9-oneiric).
My setup based on 11.10 packages are sweeter than the one based on Debian 6.0. Ubuntu packages are more recent than Debian ones. Debian Testing and Unstable has never worked well for me, but this always has. Even when I run the beta stuff.
The Windows UI isn't bad; It's the lame Linux desktops that after ten years of development were still cheesy, crappy, piss-poor knockoffs of the Windows UI that are bad.
Going down in flames, your shuttle is worthless.
There are ways in which to use the new release of Ubuntu with the classic user interface; you download Gnome Classic from the Ubuntu Software Centre or Synaptic Package manager and select that as your default session when you next log in and: Voila! Your back to the WIMP (Wimpy) user interface.
Like many, I find Unity to be not customisable enough, and while it looks nice enough, it's just not as easy to use as good old KDE.
If you don't like Unity, all you need to do is select KDE from the login options and you're back to almost what you had before. I had a few issues when I first did this as the network manager did not appear in the system tray, and in trying to get it back the desktop started crashing, and eventually I couldn't even start up Unity. I had to do a full reinstall of 11.10, then install the KDE Plasma desktop again. Now it's back to it's old self, apart from a few apps that disappeared, but they are easy enough to install. I'm not having any problems at all with the system, especially as I have reinstalled the Wicd network manager, which just seems so much more stable than the default manager. I can't understand why Wicd isn't the default wireless manager for Ubuntu. It almost always reconnects to my wireless network after my laptop hibernates, and is just easy to use.
Why Canononical decided to move away from KDE is a mystery to me. It's such a nice interface, and I'm sure it would be easy enough for the average Windows user to cope with. I've been using Kubuntu since Hardy Heron (8.04), and I've very rarely needed to resort to using my son's Windows PC to do anything. On my 5 year old laptop it runs like a dream, much better than it ever did with Windows XP.
I just hope 11.10 isn't the beginning of the end for Ubuntu. Maybe they'll see the light after this release and revert back to promoting KDE. I haven't tried any of the other flavours of Ubuntu, but Linux Mint looks fairly nice, so if the next version causes too much grief I might give that a try.