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Occupy Flash?
mcgrew writes "CNN is reporting another Occupy movement — Occupy Flash. Their aim: get rid of Flash completely. They explain: 'Why does it matter when HTML5 has clearly won the fight for the future of our web browsing? Well, as we've seen with other outdated web technologies (most notably the much-lamented Internet Explorer 6), as long as software is installed on machines, there will be a contingent of decision makers who mandate its use, and there will be a requirement of continued support, the plugin will live on, and folks will continue to develop for it.' In response, a group of Flash developers have started Occupy HTML in Flash's defense. Popcorn, anyone?"
Clearly the "Occupy" meme is being abused now. Every dipshit with any pet cause is slapping "Occupy" on it and co-opting solidarity with the OWS movement. "Occupy" is teetering on the edge of really jumping the shark here. If it goes much further, we run the risk of "Hey, remember that whole 'Occupy' fad? What was with THAT, huh?" becoming a segment on VH1's Hey, Remember The Teens? episode on 2011.
Therefore I propose we Occupy "Occupy" before it's too late. We must stand up to those who would steal our term. Because if we don't make a stand today, tomorrow we may be faced with Twilight fans wearing "Occupy Edward" and "Occupy Jacob" t-shirts, which can only lead to nostalgic Gen-Xer's wearing lame "Occupy Empire" and "Occupy Rebellion" Star Wars shirts.
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
I think the Occupy Wall Street movement is tackling an important issue, and co-opting the name for a trivial issue like this is unnecessary and unfortunate.
I get that this is mainly humor, but does anyone actually think this is going to have any kind of impact. Most users don't even realize what it is they are installing when they click the "click here to install required add-on" button.
I'm all for the quick death of Flash .. much as it is maligned, it enabled a lot of the really cool stuff we have today.. but it's time for it to die. I don't see this "movement" making any actual difference however.
Just an electric chair so we can properly deal with Flash and Flash developers. The beast must die.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
Ellison can redeem himself by eliminating Java
Consider your comment occupied. I'm not even sure why, but I thought I better get in on the fad before I start to look uncool.
It's a shit meme and anyway George Bush beat them all to it years ago with Occupy Afghanistan in 2001 and Occupy Iraq in 2003.
Thank goodness I hate flash- always have- worst thing to have happened to the web. OK, shockwave is worse.
And what percentage of malware took advantage of flash flaws- it was quite a high percent if I recall.
"That's the way to do it" - Punch
But it still has the problem of not being able to link to the internal sections. Good job!
Game, set, match.
I so sick of the Occupy Whatever phraseology that I'm protesting with an Occupy Occupy movement.
Oh please, Flash vs. HTML is nonsense. There are some real issues at hand here, like who controls the software that we live on.
See my site that talks about this http://occupyinside.org/
I am always doing that which I can not do, in order that I may learn how to do it. - Pablo Picasso
This whole thing helps keep me occupied.
So, how will cartoonists and animators share their work? People (geeks especially) seem to entirely forget that flash was never intended to create applications, it was vector animation software, so calling for it to stop being used entirely because HTML5 "has won" if a ridiculous statement.
HTML5 is not a superset of Flash.
Flash is not a superset of HTML5.
Get over the pissing contests and use the right tool for the job.
http://alternatives.rzero.com/
See title...
Though the 15-year old technology is still commonly used for advertisements, videos and games, many developers have been moving toward more modern and universal standards like HTML5
Well that's pretty impressive. It's been around for 15 years, and is still heavily used. That said, HTML5 is looking pretty sure to eclipse it, eventually.
"We feel this move effectively creates two Internets -- the one you can use on mobile/tablets and the one you can use on the desktop," one of the founders of the Occupy Flash movement said via e-mail. "This is not good for anyone except Adobe."
Now that I know it's been around for 15 years, I'm kind of impressed it's still working, and not terribly surprised that it hasn't morphed well into newer technologies that are being used in ways people were only beginning to think of at the turn of the millenium. I know 15 years is not that unusual for some technologies, like mainframes, but just think about the rapid pace of development in web standards, graphics cards and algorithms, etc.
Huh, I wonder what Adobe thinks.
HTML5 is now universally supported on major mobile devices, in some cases exclusively. This makes HTML5 the best solution for creating and deploying content in the browser across mobile platforms. We are excited about this, and will continue our work with key players in the HTML community
Seems reasonable. As does this:
Our future work with Flash on mobile devices will be focused on enabling Flash developers to package native apps with Adobe AIR for all the major app stores. We will no longer continue to develop Flash Player in the browser to work with new mobile device configurations
Fair enough. What about security fixes?
We will of course continue to provide critical bug fixes and security updates for existing device configurations. We will also allow our source code licensees to continue working on and release their own implementations.
Spiffy.
Aren't there more important things these people could be spending their time on?
As much as I hate flash, you gotta admit flash existed for a reason: it filled the gaps where HTML was more lacking. Unfortunately, that's still true today even with HTML5, although the trend towards HTML5 is very obvious and clear.
Many browsers still can't playback HTML5 properly and there isn't even a single video codec which will work consistently across browsers just like flash does, AFAIK. (I'm talking about h264 license issues, WebM's lack of hardware decoding, etc..).
Also, while rich media solutions are certainly possible with CSS3 and javascript, it still requires significantly more effort than its flash counterparts.
Of course, that doesn't excuse many many (many) uses where flash isn't really necessary but still being used. THAT must go. And flash video should be avoided where possible if the browser supports anything else. I think the main issue with that is that many web developers are still being lazy (hey, megavideo, I'm looking at you!).
But flash still accomplishes some things across browsers consistently in a way that HTML5 and CSS3 still can't - or at least not effortlessly for the web developer, which is what counts most of the times; let's hope Adobe helps with that with the HTML5 tools they are building.
So don't blame everything on flash, the standards are advancing too slowly IMHO even with backers such as Apple and Google.
There are other means of watching videos online with HTML5.
Don't tell me you are using Crashplayer for something else than watching videos online. If so... you're a joke.
Flash must live on! If Flash dies out then that means highly annoying and CPU-hogging advertisements will be converted into HTML5 and get around my simple flashblock. I don't like Flash as much as the next guy but when you can currently carte blanche disable flash and easily remove the most heinous of web content, I fully support its continued use.
Except with less rationale to it. Why anyone gets worked up about a plugin that does what its supposed to do reasonably well and has some very comprehensive development tools I have no idea. Its probably the sort of people who really have nothing to complain about in their lives but are still at the age where they need a "cause" to feel worthy who are making the most noise about it.
But let's be serious here, HTML can't reliably replace all of the features of Flash, yet.
HTML has basically no hardware support, the hardware API is still under discussion last I checked.
Besides that, various other things are quite a bit harder to do, be it streaming media or the whole codec mess
And of course, the biggest of all, lack of portability due to basically no direct storage of binary data.
Although in the latter case it is possible to store SOME binary data in strings, you have to make sure it doesn't terminate strings, so you still need to convert data to something not directly binary-based in order to work.
Base64 is the current standard method for storing data easily, in addition to adding 133% on to the size if I remember correct.
This is also a good and bad thing. Good because it means a bigger mess to get around when it comes to people trying to leech media even though everything is in plainttext, and grabbing media is incredibly easy with developer tools anyway, Chrome Inspector is incredibly handy for this. Bad because the whole less portable part, so no more easy sharing of games anymore. (be it between friends, or actually getting them all added on to a gaming website as a great example)
In fact, speaking of the gaming side of Flash, lack of portability in the HTML side is essentially going to destroy the minds of everyone trying to get around the headaches of integrating HTML games in to sites.
Flash is a container. Throwing a script in to a page can cause havoc, particularly in the cases where people might have re-used variable names that also exist in the global scope. (which is a fault of JavaScript, as well as the ungodly number of resources on JavaScript that don't even explain how the hell you even remove things from the global scope in the first place, which resulted in this mess!)
So, yeah, I really hate Flash, it is terribly inefficient, insecure and almost the entire community of developers are terrible at using it to write efficient code.
Wait... sorta like JavaScript I guess. Hmm...
There's a lot of noise when you get your ear on the ground.For years people have been held hostages to deadend jobs living paycheck to paycheck and be abused of by the executives being paid a million to one for the employees. It's about indecent and totally selfish people that have no conscience of the harm they inflict to the people of America. .It's government approved ! .. So vote left or right , you're screwed both ways. Fantastic .. what a great democratic model .
There is an URGENT need for people to start demonstrating and join in. Those who dont either are totally blinded by the lies of the politicians ( in particular the right ) and fear fear about collapsing economies , wars and terrorists not to mention catastrophic destructions by the same people who are using them like modern day slaves ! For crying out loud , arent you tired of electing people who dont represent you but only the interrests of their rich corporate masters and party contributors. There is a lot more to be totally pissed off of the reality of how the US government treat it's " citizens " .
The reform cannot leave the huge chunks that are the government and regulating bodies who make it possible for the corporations of treating people like such
TO get rid of the problem , one must introduce amandments or whatever is required to facilitate the arrival of new political parties in the US.
The problem is the establishment. Get rid of it by getting the " Mr Smith goes to Washington " types elected , You got to get rid of those parties to be able to effect any significant change or betterment of the situation for the US Citizen.
It's obvious.
I therefore would like to see the following changes implemented , kind of an option that should be considered to the actual system.The People of the USA would be voting on all law projects which would be proposed by representatives that , once you cut the establishment out of the equation , would represent the interrest of the People and Citizens , which no party at the moment does really . So . politicians would be free to propose anything they like cause the only ones making the decisions on that level would be the people. .. Democracy is not one man voting for 10 million others , it's letting the people's voice express itself and be the guide to a society that will tremendously benifit from it. i mean .. it's early and im out of coffee .. bbl
That sounds a bit more democratic to me
As long as there are websites out there that aren't been updated, then Flash is here to stay
not want to live on this planet anymore.
When HTML5 wasn't the "future", every bling-obsessed art director chose Flash, and it was easily blocked and sites that relied on it ignored, because sane web designers knew not to rely on it. Nowadays you can't even Google properly anymore because every text field is broken beyond repair by tons of Javascript that breaks in anything but the very latest browser. I hate HTML5.
Does anyone else find it hilarious that the Occupy HTML site is done in HTML5?
Please uninstall Flash and try again.
Flash was a great technology, but it's the past, time to look towards the future with HTML5.
http://www.montuori.net/
Flash is gone from all my machines. The thing is the kids play Club Penguin....requires flash. Transcender is used to study for tests....requires flash. Illustrators that work at big firms (who are the folks that draw whatever they want and it looks insanely good) ask about HTML5 and how it will replace flash. They are concerned that the design will be in the hands of the programmers when told that the final implementation will be in the programmers hands not the look and feel, they are not comforted. Mobile Flash's demise has led to a huge concern among regular web flash designers. IMHO flash may be on its way out but it is very far from dead, still very much in use today, and it has some foot steps that will take HTML5 a long time to fill (if ever): illustrators ceding power to the programmers.
I did! Who's with me? Down with the unoccupied 1%... or something.
Please do not read this sig. Thank you.
Occupy screwdrivers, use hammers
I don't have any issues with flash features. To me it is that Adobe is unwilling to make necessary changes that will break existing flash files to keep it relevant. Flash has a huge number of security holes which will continue indefinitely - THAT is the main reason to stop using it.
Adobe's management is the issue here.
It sounds like a very bad Mad TV skit come to life, based on just previous stories here
On a side note: After first hand experience with those in Atlanta, all I can say is, Occupy THIS. Damn if I don't want to ever be around people like that.
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
Seriously,
Most people attacking Flash have never built an application in it. I'm not talking about some stupid animated banner ad. html 5 will do that fine.
But try coding a web application to handle a variety of browsers from ie 7 to ie 10, Firefox, Chrome, Safari, and so on.
Doing that with html 5, js, css can often be a maze of exceptions, variants, etc. With Flash, it's simply installing a single common plugin.
Yes, there is a lot of bad Flash code out there. But there is far more bad html & js. Furthermore, there are many things that html 5 can't quite do on a level that Flash currently can.
So it makes more sense to allow for a transition. Allow html 5 to become more refined.
To call for such a policy of cold turkey is just stupid. Why not call for the elimination of all html 4 code from the web. I mean, we have the new glorious html 5.
---
Let's look at the criticisms:
1. Flash is buggy well so are many html, ajaxsites. I find Facebook hugely buggy and constantly run into issues with ajax. In fact, I run into issues far more with html, js, ajax, etc than I do with Flash.
Score 0
2. Crashes a lot. I guess on Linux. Over the past several years I've had very few crashes of Flash on either my Windows or Mac PCs. Exception, for about 2-3 months there was a version of Flash Player 10 that was crashing with sad face all the time. Comparitively, if I exclude that one update period. Then Flash has crashed less for me than any browser I've used.
Score 0
3. Requires constant security updates. Seriously, what doesn't? Windows does. Firefox feels like it updates almost everytime I use my computer. iTunes, I swear has a new update and new terms of service every launch.
Score 0
4. Doesn't work on most mobile devices.
Score 1 ... but how much of that is corporate politics?
In conclusion...
Challenge: Before anyof you downgrade this post. I challenge you to go look at ActionScript 3 as a programming language. And compare it with JavaScript. Tell me which is a better programming language.
Flash's demise has far more to do with corporate politics, closed gardens, and restrictions on use than it does with the technology itself.
And OccupyFlash is clearly full of people on par with the stupidity of a lot of the ows crowd.
"Apple iPhones and iPads, have not been able to view media coded for Flash on their mobile gadgets" - Occupy Flash
Who's fault is that? Adobe's? No, it was a greedy Steve Jobs with a personal vendetta to kill a company that kept Apple alive for nigh a decade. But finally when Apple was around 5% market share decided to release it's next product version for Windows first. For this blatant sin Steve Jobs has waged a war against Adobe and sought it's death.
Why? Because if you could play all those Angry Birds and Zombie games in Flash. Why would anydeveloper needlessly fork over 30% of their profits to Apple.
And that folks, is the crux of the whole issue. Just as OWS is really just aiding the cause of those high up corrupt bankers (more government involvement and regulations just means less and bigger banks, with more bailouts). OccupyFlash is just make Apple leap for joy and secretly shout "SUCKERS!!!!!"
PS - Slashdot, sure would help if you gave an example of junk characters.
For years people have been held hostages to deadend jobs living paycheck to paycheck ...... I therefore would like to see the following changes implemented , kind of an option that should be considered to the actual system.The People of the USA would be voting on all law projects which would be proposed by representatives
Why on earth do you think your solution would fix your stated problem? You think voting for laws directly would solve the problem of dead end jobs? More likely it would put ME out of a job as I now have to spend all my time understanding a new law regarding the importation of game hens......
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
Yeah, sure, equate your hatred of a web API with the oppression of the population by the rich! I am sure there will be tens, no wait, DOZENS of people at your "protests"...get a real job, hippie programmers!
The occupy movement had its clear benefits and goals (in spite of what some pundits said). The big issue is the erosion of the middle class at the expense of the wealthy and large corporations. Because the effects are legion, the movement seemed unfocused. Now we have 'occupy this' and 'occupy that'. Like "Highlander 2", anything after the original is trash (and in the case of that movie, an abomination). Give it up already.
I promptly started to ignore him when he stated that "most all mobile devices don't even support flash! Even Android doesn't support it!"
What do I know, I'm just an idiot, right?
99% of my CPU cycles are taken up by 1 process!
bogomip greed must end and priority reniced to lesser PID's!
Occupy Adobe (Flash) Now!
"Curiouser and Curiouser...." -Alice
I agree with some of what occupy is saying but they don't speak with one voice, and some really misinformed or crazy stuff comes out there.
I mean NPR has if anything given them pretty sympathetic coverage and even listing to some of the people they chose to interview, I could not help but think, how the heck did that guy get accepted by a college in the first place, not being able to pay for is the least his problems. I really wonder what percentage of occupy protestors could manage a high school civics or intro to economics final. I don't think it would be very high.
So why the are not wrong to be upset with the financial industry and government, I can't get on board. I want to know what a movements goals are before I become part of it. If their only goal was to be heard well, we heard them. Now what? Its either time for them to go home, or propose an agenda.
Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
Not the right place to ask but here it goes anyway....
If I want a video on a web page, and I want it playable in HTML5, Flash (for those who don't have a compatible browser), iPhone, and Android.... how many videos do I need to have on the web server? 1?, 2?, 3?, 4? Are there any guides for doing this?
Guess it was the astericks I used to break up two thought areas.
I mean, really. Occupy Flash? A) Adobe admitted that HTML5 is the future, and B) you need something better to occupy your time.
Democracy Now! - your daily, uncensored, corporate-free
1. Its performance is crappy at best. ...
2. It exposes too much of the source for people who want to make a living off their code. It's bad enough with Flash and Java decompilers
3. Unlike Flash, Python, Perl, Tcl.TK, C, C++, Java, etc., HTML5 needs a browser - and browsers are themselves a crappy - and inconsistent - host environment, so you also inherit any security and bug problems from the browser.
4. The standard for HTML5 is not yet even finished.
Sure, you can write applications in HTML5 (I'm writing one now) - but it's a crappy way to write a program. The DOM might be okay for documents (hence the "D" in Document Object Model) but it's a real impedance mismatch for anything else.
is that they're using the term "occupy" to mean something like "de-occupy".
"Occupy Flash", apparently, means "stop using it". Er, how does that work? Don't they mean "De-occupy Flash"?
Who's the bigger pinhead(s)?
Flash will live on long after it's development stops.. And that's even IF all browsers had full HTML5 support, which Im sure will happen when HTML 7 is in the batters box.
Now if you hit a page with a few Flash-like HTML animations, they'll all be in contention on the same thread, running off timers and generally chugging. And hardware accelerated video? Screw that, you're stuck with WebM or whatever else can be called the lowest common denominator.
Vote for whom?
Start a party with a platform of government transparency. Buy a significant chunk of ad time on major cable TV networks. Internet advertising is not enough because more people watch ads on TV than watch ads on the Internet. I'll admit that it'll take a lot of fundraising to match the Republicratic political machine.
I think they should open it, and it should not be plugin, but a protocol, as in flash://adobe.com would launch the app/anim/advanced air application/whatever in flash.app / flash.exe or your open source choice for executing flash.
And at this time when you can do everything for the most in html (html5/csse3/js) it just need skills., why should you embed the really advanced stuff flash could do like 3d games etc. For HTML pages, html is the best.
Then I do not need to restart the browser everytime there is an update to flash either, much safer than a forced execution of flash (I use flashblocking), I do not see the reason for a page to have a lot of different flash animations one page, that scenario would usually be just ads.
And you do not need flash for playing video, that era is over. If you are a developer and can not manage to make a cross platform player / solution and a worst case fallback to flash, you should not develop that page.
I'm sorry, but you've missed one important criticism:
It's a proprietary non-standard technology controlled by a single company with a single proprietary working implementation. Whether you like the other technologies used in the web, they aren't controlled by a single company, and have multiple implementations letting you choose the most secure or stable one. With Flash, you're stuck with Adobe's implementation, especially on platforms that are overlooked (such as GNU/Linux and non-x86 hardware such as mobile devices), and if unfixed bugs pop up, you can't fix them. At the moment I can't play mp3 sounds in Flash, because Adobe have incorrectly used memcpy instead of memmove, but my distro can't fix that with a patch.
What's more, the open standard technologies with free implementations easily yield to developments on the part of the client. Want to extract information from HTML? That's easy. Want to learn a HTML 5/JavaScript inside a daemon on your server? That's not difficult. Want to alter the behaviour of a HTML 5/JavaScript application with GreaseMonkey or NoScript? Please, go ahead.
With Flash? Haha, good luck!
I think they should open it, and it should not be plugin, but a protocol
Adobe's way ahead of you. It relicensed the Flash spec as part of the Open Screen Project.
And you do not need flash for playing video
But you do need Flash for playing vector animations like Weebl and Bob. Otherwise, you have to render each frame of the SWF to produce mp4 and webm files, and in my tests, those end up ten times bigger than the SWF.
Although my arse contains only 1% of my intelligence- over 50% of my slashdot comments come out my arse.
The rest of my body will now be staging Occupy My Arse. Richard Simmons has been denied membership.
"That's the way to do it" - Punch
So how long before people start grumbling about HTML5 like they have been about flash? And by people, I mean the occupiers here. I mean, HTML5 seems great, but it's sure to have its own set of headaches. Just seems a bit over-zealous.
I will start another movement, the "Reflashlicans."
They are protesting html5 by making a rather nice if simple cross platform html5 site? do people not know how to protest anymore? Rosa Parks. She knew how to protest. Drive the message home. Don't tie up public resources any longer than you need to. Don't whine about something but expect other people to act.
By transcoding their SWFs to MP4 and WebM, spending ten times the data transfer allocation to send them, and making viewers spend ten times the data transfer allocation to receive them.
'Why does it matter when HTML5 has clearly won the fight for the future of our web browsing?'
A future technology still being defined does not solve today's problems.
While we're at it, let's boycott all manufacturers of prosthetic legs as using stem cells and legal pot to regenerate lost limbs is clearly the superior technology.
Native apps are much better for encoding video and there's no need for the browser to support that.
Not everybody who wants to make an application already owns a Mac, and you don't necessarily want to turn away visitors who have one. To what extent does Wine for Mac OS X support applications that record video or audio?
Where do you cut off the PUT request when sending a chunk of live video?
Where do you cut off the GET request when receiving a chunk of live video?
HTML5 is far from ubiquitous. Implementations differ by vendor and platform. The standard is not finalized and won't be for some time yet -- meaning it's impossible to get uniform support for all features across browsers.
Flash is slow, inefficient - a total CPU hog. These days it's mostly used for advertising, and who wants to look at advertising anyway.
Did I cover the basics? Can we move on now?
How do you recommend converting Strong Bad Emails to run in HTML5?
If you have a lion chewing on your leg, and a tiger on your arm, would you use your free arm and leg on the lion, completely ignoring the tiger?
I'm guessing yes. I can apply more force to one cat at a time to clear each off in turn. I ignore the tiger until the lion is subdued or vice versa.
So what we're really discussing is which Adobe product we will be buying/using, their Flash IDE or their HTML5 IDE.
The browser makers will have to work just as furiously. Right now Adobe's implementation of SWF is twice as fast as Firefox's implementation of HTML5 canvas on my machine at this benchmark.
HTML5's crappy caching. An internet connection required, so for many robust enterprise solutions flash pretty much is needed. Anyone who is a part of this movement has little enterprise experience and is entering this occupy movement about two to four years too early.
Nothing does a better job making my Athlon64 3000+ obsolete than by switching everything to HTML5.
Watching a video on Youtube in HTML5 shoots my CPU up to 80% while watching it through regular Flash only uses 55%.
Angry Birds in HTML5 is jerky (not to mention the crappy aliasing) and it'll work a lot better if implemented in Flash.
So surely I'm missing something when people keeps complaining Flash is a resource hog.
I hope it's not another hipster programmer fad like the functional language for everything trend a couple of years ago.
Their now-in-beta HTML animation program. The development team is enthusiastic and receptive to producing a good program. I've been using it on projects and it's getting close to what LiveMotion (Edge's lead developer work on it) was for Flash - easy to use and very intuitive, unlike Flash, which requires good programming skills to use with any effect. Tumultco's Hype is also quite good, but slightly more limited at this time.
Or, rather, several of them.
The protests were planned in advance and started by Adbusters, funded, supported and publicized by various George Soros entities. It even has a heirarchal command structure like a corporation. As a registered non-profit, they even have bank accounts with $$$.
It is this money that pays for people to lie full-time on TV to support the movement and bash its detractors. For every Hannity there's one or more equally detestable Olbermanns. They even have the women covered with The View, a bunch of leftists with a token conservative who continually gets shouted down.
While I despise Flash, I realize that a lot of companies have a ton of money invested in Flash. Replacing it is not going to be free. Flash will eventually be replaced without the help of protesters if the benefits of HTML5 out weigh those of Flash and the cost of HTML5 is similar to Flash. Cost = Labor, Training and Development Tools.
Visit the Arcade Restoration Workshop @ http://www.arcaderestoration.com
i would mod you up if i could.
html5 had a lot of promise to replace plugins when it had a standard codec of ogg and vorbis for audio and video but without it what happens? we will use a billion different plugins for audio and video and be right back where we are now anyway. flash is cross platform and lets be honest depite being abused badly is great at serving up small games video and audio with or without drm. why should we stop using it? the only bad thing i can say about flash is it keeping the browser 32bit. my only hope is that with adobe dropping flash as it appears it will do sometime in the near future that it goes open source with it, i would find it highly amusing if it became the default video audio/vidoe codec for the html 5. just a question why is java-script supposedly superior to flash?
---Saying gnome 3 is better than windows 8 not so much a compliment as it is damning with light praise.
I see one of the demands is that we should tell website that we want future content in more open standards. The Flex SDk has been open source since version 3.0 and the Flash Player specification has been open for longer.
Puzzle Daze is now my job
Did you know that 1% of commenters have 90% of the karma? Occupy Slashdot!! Trolls need karma too and anonymous cowards. Really anonymous coward posts so damn much, he should have all of the karma.
I, for one, welcome our new occupy overlords.
CHARTS: Here's What The Wall Street Protesters Are So Angry About
Simple to understand, pictures and everything. With Firefox and NoScript, it's not a slideshow, so sorry if it actually is one.
Operating System Visits Operating System contribution to total:
1 Windows 1,862 88.62%
2 Macintosh 119 5.66%
3 Linux 32 1.52%
4 iPhone 29 1.38%
5 Android 25 1.19%
6 (not set) 20 0.95%
7 iPad 11 0.52%
Out of those people, 94.62% of all visitors had identified some version of Flash. My site utilizes Flash heavily.
I've tried Adobe Wallaby and Google Swiffy, neither does a perfect job converting to HTML5, especially with AS3 files. Edge doesn't support rollovers/hover yet, fortunately actions made it into the latest release. The Flash content on my site views fine on most browsers (including my Droid). Given the small amount of iOS users, I don't plan on converting my Flash content to HTML5 it anytime soon. Until a significant amount of iOS users contribute traffic, I don't see it as much of a problem.
This is more stupid than Jay-Z "occupy all streets" t-shirts. Congrats!
FTA:
"We feel this move effectively creates two Internets -- the one you can use on mobile/tablets and the one you can use on the desktop," one of the founders of the Occupy Flash movement said via e-mail. "This is not good for anyone except Adobe"
It's not creating 2 Internets, that's completely idiotic. It means that you have to target multiple platforms, which is just business as usual in the world of web development. If you're trying to build a website that targets everything with one solution, you're doing it wrong.
Now all we need is a little energon, and a lot of luck. -Optimus Prime
I was just about to type a similiar point.
One difference between you and me is I HATE FLASH. I agree with your points on a technical scale too. However, it is agaisn't the very spirit of the web itself. 15 years ago anyone could learn HTML and get a job. You opened notepad and typed in html and it was easy. Flash ... oh you need that for a job now. Ok that will be $700. Photoshop too? That will now be $1400.
Linux for web developlment? Nope. MacOSX or Windows :-(
I learned Linux 10 years ago because unix had awesome tools like PHP that were free. Now flash being proprietary is forcing me to use Windows again and that is agaisnt the spirit of GNU. I am not a gnu zealot but those who are and like flash are hypocritical. No one sees the dangers of this?
Now you need to pay Adobe and use closed standards to develop wibsites. You mention IE which I just learned to hate developing for as I am trying to start a business and learned how bad IE 6 is. I expect corporate customers and the big boys still use IE 6 and will well after 2013 as they use VMs and I need it to look pretty across all browsers. Now I am tempted to learn flash and it is wrong and so many levels. Sigh
I pray Windows 8 is fixed more in desktop mode so corporations and people can upgrade IE 7 to IE 10 and we can start HTML 5.
Apple did the right thing in killing Flash. It sucks on my Andriod and is CPU sucking when I try to watch porn. Mpeg hardware acceleration can help things greatly.
To me in 2011 Flash is the most practical solution, while HTML 5 is the most ideal.
http://saveie6.com/
I can play SD resolution H.264 video on a first generation iPod Touch (400Mhz 128KB of RAM). Hell even a video iPod from 2005 can play an SD video (dual 80Mhz). How well does Flash play video on low end devices?
Is it Apple's fault that Flash was late for Android, the Xoom, Palm, BlackBerry and every other mobile platform? Why would anyone depend on Adobe?
For years people have been held hostages to deadend jobs
Please take this in the way it's presented; most folks here like being informed, I know I do and appreciate when someone enlightens me about something (happened to me here today already).
Sometimes it's not good to squash two words into one. "Sometimes" is a good one. But when squashing those words together changes the meaning, that's not conducive to good communication. "Deadend" looks like "deadened", only one timy letter difference, but a world of difference in meaning, and in fact looks like a misspelling of "deadened".
Leaving the space between "dead" and "end" (or using a hyphen) greatly enhances communication.
BTW, that was a good comment, you should be modded up. I've advocated for quite a while that after the legistature passes a bill and the President signs it, it shouldn't become law until it's put to a popular vote. And laws should have expiration dates; why are some obsolete WWII era laws that were meant for the war effort still on the books?
Free Martian Whores!
it's not too late: http://www.saveie6.com/ ... :D
-- Cheers Vince
You talk about harm inflicted with these people living paycheck to paycheck.
Do you think they would like the alternative? No job? Starvation? Or Living at home with their parents?
I do feel it is not fair and our parents generation (I am in my 30s) had it much easier, but what are the alternatives? You can't force someone to pay you more. In an economic recession or depression like we are in now the employers can and will take advantage. When things improve like in the 1990s and 1950s the people decide to quit their jobs, start businesses, and invest in themselves so they can be compensated more.
With high debt you should be angry at Washington DC and not Wall Street. Lax regulations of banks caused all of our monitary system to be created out of thin imaginary numbers so the market responds by having us all be paid less as a means to correct itself. It is the invisible hand of the free market in respond to goverment. Go occupy DC and take your anger out on them.
Sure living paycheck to paycheck might not be ideal but that is life and it beats starvation right?
http://saveie6.com/
the apple zealots have completely run out of rationalizations for why their gadgets are better than the competition. everything an iThing does, something else does better. all these poor sobs have left is the defense that their favorite gadget is somehow better because it doesn't allow them to see parts of the internet. it's strange logic, but it seems to be keeping them motivated for now at least. of course the solution is to eliminate the parts of the internet their toys can't see, not to get a better toy.. because The One True Jobs said flash was bad, hmmmmmmkay. Nevermind that most of the iDiots have no idea why flash is bad, nevermind that HTML5 is just or bad or even worse. Flash is bad cuz papa Jobs doesn't like it, and so long as it exists the iDiots will have a cause. so... go ahead.. kill flash. whatever. throw them a bone.
A list needs to be made, perhaps from Facebook. These people are terrorists, they need to be rounded up and and put with the rest of them. We already have a place for terrorists and last I checked, waterboarding was still legal.
For example:
.. instead of
And no, it doesn't matter if your tag conflicts with a tag that's defined in the new spec, with 4 exceptions: html, head, body, and title. The spec is flawed in that you can only have one title tag, and yet we see real-world examples every day with stuff with multiple titles - anthologies, the the front page of the newspaper, magazines (all of which every story has a title) ... chapters in books, which can also have titles, etc. This is a serious flaw in the spec, because it means that you have to use less-intuitive names instead of "title", such as storytitle, articletitle, sectiontitle, etc. The parent-child relationship should have been sufficient to differentiate between them, but the spec is the spec, no matter how much it sucks (just look at the original menu and dir tags).
Flash may very well be on the way out as a browser plug-in (a distribution platform, if you like).
It will likely live on a long time as an artists' tool.
Flash as a platform, a plug-in, was a way to solve the problem of "I've made this cool animation in Flash, now how do I show it to people?"
Adobe has gotten with the times, and turned Flash into a vector animation tool with the level of features for professionals you'd expect (think Photoshop or Illustrator). Sure you can make a "Flash movie", but you can also import your artwork from better creation tools, easily animate it with tweens (etc) in Flash, then export to any number of video or animation formats, or more importantly to frames or sprite sheets. Those exported formats find their way into your game, program, etc. The old "Flash movie" has nothing to do with this workflow.
The plug-in is decreasingly useful every day. The tool is quite useful for the designer/artist and will live on. You just won't watch Flash-created content in a Flash platform plugin. You'll be watching Flash-animated content (likely created outside Flash) in some other platform and never know Flash was part of the picture.
You don't look at graphics in a Photoshop or GIMP plugin, or play iOS games inside XCode, but the tools still exist and are useful, separate from the obsolescence of the delivery platform.
Flash only works properly in Windows, and not elsewhere. Flash is about Adobe effectively controlling parts of the web with their proprietary plugin, which is the only thing that can properly parse Flash content.
HTML may not be the best markup language around. JavaScript may not be the best scripting language around. But they are by all means superior to Flash, in the sense that they're open and well supported at this point by all major browsers, including those on mobile devices.
I use Ubuntu as my operating system, and Flash is nowhere near usable. On the other hand, HTML5 gets good support from browsers here. All three Firefox, Chrome and Opera handle it very well.
When I got to the part where you said that Flash could handle 1080p video well enough, I understood that your post was a troll. I don't know why I bothered feeding it.
Wow, into revisionist history much? Adobe kept Apple alive for 10 years? Gee, maybe they should have crushed Apple by not releasing comparable products that they made for the PC, or by not maintaining MAC versions, etc., etc. After all, Apple was only 5% marketshare, right?
Oh, wait. They did all that, mainly with Adobe Premier. Apple promptly developed their own version, First Cut, from an open-source origin, and promptly blew Adobe's POS out of the marketplace. Adobe knows full well that if they get too cocky Apple will develop a version of GIMP that basically puts PhotoShop in the same marketspace as Premier.
And let me get this straight: increased regulation results in fewer and bigger banks. You have a source to prove that, right? So I'm guessing that your thought is that less or no regulation and letting the mighty market determine its course is the way to go. We already went through that, which is why we're where we are today.
I'm totally down with the crew on how much Flash sucks, but the problem isn't Flash per se, it's all the idiot Flash users that keep saving their Flash documents such that viewing them requires a Flash player no more than 72 hours old. Flash sucks because it usually doesn't work on sites like CNN, all you get is a box that says "Sorry, you need to download version XYZ of Flash to view this shitty ad". That said, what's does HTML 5 have to do with anything, and why does anyone care? I have nothing that plays HTML5 anything, and I'm not about to download anything that plays HTML5 anything. I've never seen HTML5 anything, and I'm not likely to anytime soon. Are people actually being so stupid as to put stuff online on HTML5-only format, and if so, why should I care?
Okay, great. Now what if you DON'T want the user to be able to see the internals? What good is HTML5 then?
Say for example, you want to demo the product you're selling, and you don't want the client to just steal the source code.
Mark my words: HTML5 products will never be sold. A huge, huge barrier for it which its proponents seem to think is a positive attribute.
HTML5 sucks for everything except mobile web browsing. Have you ever tried to make an HTML5 game? Ya it sucks so fucking horrible. People complain about flash sucking, take a look at webgl and canvas. They display differently on all browsers webkit, mozilla. It's complete garbage. Do you people even realize how many old grandmas are still rocking IE6? Please. OH!. SIDE NOTE! HTML5 doesn't even have a standard yet and that standard is about 10 years away. Unless your making a POS Mobile sites.
HTML5 is for plain old web browsing.
Flash is for gaming.
Unity and unreal are now publishing directly to Flash Player 11. Can you do that with HTML5? NO! YOU CANT! BECAUSE HTML5 SUCKS FLASHES NUTS.
Sure Flash sucks. So does HTML. So does Silverlight. So do Java applets. I've done them all, and they're all crap. Could we please do something new?
I don't know about the rest of you but flash is the reason my browsers freeze and crash. If there is an alternative I will welcome it.
I really enjoyed using XML with Actionscript. It's just more natural that Javascript's dreaded DOM API. CSS3 selectors are OK, but I think they're implemented in Javascript, not native code.
i have been browsing without flash for years. (though i do have a separate firefox profile with flash installed for when i occasionally need it).
Then there are all the machines that are still perfectly good, but because adobe does not support flash on them, they can't be used for various web things. They can't even do things that they used to be able to do, because website require the latest versions of flash. There should be no need to throw out a 1.6 GHz G4 laptop, but if it can't play youtube anymore it is useless to many.
Alike many others, my first-hand personal motivation for HTML5 replacing Flash was the sucky video playback performance. I was hoping for some hackers to finally create a clean and lightweight replacement, but these implementations turned out to be even slower and they lack professional quality in general. And, at the same time Adobe has improved Flash by adding VDPAU acceleration.
To add a nice mini troll, I have even started to feel that sometimes Flash is actually a more sane way to create multimedia-rich content for the web than the hacky HTML AJAX stack.
According to Jordan .....
They flash mobile update of 2011 made it LESS able to watch '720'p videos on your mobile phone so I guess the problem is,,, is that there seems to be a reluctance to actualy implement the HIGHER flash codecs even though they have been promised by adobe flash. Why is this for the mobile (most general) platform. Surely its in everyone's interest to implement a 720 higher hd-video option ????????????????
Source http://www.thisweekinlinux.com/ there should be a video link on youtube.
It shows Jordan trying to press the vido flash option tab to show higher hd video.
Obvious innit.
As of this posting it has been done.
In merry ole Hackney London.
Exposé
Went to the site but NoScript had disabled Flash by default. The HTML stuff looks pretty good though.
The problem with HTML is that HTML is instructions to a browser, not a program itself that the browser runs. If HTML was a program, then any progress in HTML would come from libraries and not from browsers, and it would come much faster.
To explain it differently: HTML tags are not functions of a programming language; they are hardcoded instructions that each browser must interpret. HTML is the assembly of web, and the browser is the CPU which executes the instructions. That's extremely bad, because it does not allow the extension of HTML by programming new functions or modifying the current ones in HTML itself; one has to modify the browser to achieve these changes.
Now that we know that a web browser should really be a display server, HTML should be abandoned for a truly programmable approach, where the markup language is actually a program that creates the visual output itself.
Could the http://occupyhtml.org site be anymore apologetic for this outdated, crappy software plugin? If the main argument you have consistantly supports the OPPOSITIONS argument you are kind of screwed:
"...it crashes a lot..."
"...It requires constant security updates..."
"...there's plenty of sites that are optimized for modern browsers and don't require Flash..."
Flash should die a very quick death.
I heard you like occupying, so I occupied your occupation, so you can occupy occupations while you occupy!
Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
You have been manipulated by your compassion and love for your fellow people and that compassion has been turned by the 1% into energy causing you to fight to give them power. What makes you think our ridiculously corrupt government wouldn't do anything other than decide treatment policy based on what Pfizer says? Shit, the essential treatments would be illegal and Viagra would be MANDATORY. It doesn't take a libertarian to recognize that. As for me, I'm skeptical of anyone who wants to centralize power away from the choice of the actual people. And on that note, I quite working for The Man five years ago and I'm quite happy.
I have a theory that the truth is never told during the nine-to-five hours. - Hunter S. Thompson