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Developer Drops Game Price To $0 Citing Android Piracy
hypnosec writes with news of a curious way of fighting piracy. From the article: "Android based devices are being activated at the rate of million a day and users are downloading apps and games at a rate never seen before. Despite these promising stats, developers of Android based games and apps are not really keen on porting games and apps that have been successful on iOS to Android. Why? Rampant piracy on Android! Madfinger Games has joined the long list of developers who have recently turned their paid Android based game, Dead Trigger, to a free one. Originally priced at $0.99 on Play Store, the first person shooter game is now available for free . The iOS version of the game still costs $0.99 and hasn't been made free."
Zero-cost, but certainly not Free Software; one has to wonder whether Open Source games with a "donation" build in the store would do better than proprietary games with upfront costs.
From Google:
From Jelly Bean and forward, paid apps in Google Play are encrypted with a device-specific key before they are delivered and stored on the device. We know you work hard building your apps. We work hard to protect your investment.
Well in about 5+ years, when developers can abandon earlier versions, that should really help out a lot.
And they wonder why iOS stays on top. It's not just because of numbers of hipness, you know. It's also because, for developers, it means not having to deal with Google's sloppy, haphazard approach in Android to everything the Apple does so professionally in iOS (especially when it comes to the App Store vs. the Android Marketplace). This is just another example.
What political party do you join when you don't like Bible-thumpers *or* hippies?
one has to wonder whether Open Source games with a "donation" build in the store would do better than proprietary games with upfront costs.
Wonder all you want, the answer is no.
This is Lamar Smith, I'm in your Secret internet club and I am using this as evidence to bring back SOPA. I am also forcing nerds to be evicted from their basements and force them to shave their neckbeards. Also I'm making sure Half Life 3 is only released on Origin.
I don't get it. He chose to drop his revenue from low to nothing, and argues that he *had* to do it?
Anyone else smell bullshit?
Piracy doesn't exist on the iPhone, right?
What do I know, I'm just an idiot, right?
The number of "I want my dollar back" post at that Facebook link is really sad.
could have had activation as in app purchase. but stats show people are more likely to download and pirate a game that has an upfront cost(so you get wider circulation).
they got in-app purchases afaik in the game. that's why they're doing this free giveaway. and no they're not giving in-game gold to those who paid for it.
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
Developer drops game price to $0, failing to cite that it was a really shitty game that charged for upgrades.
Reports today indicate a small developer you've never heard of, has altered how they will finance a product you've never heard of. The pricing cited factors commonly referenced in the field the product competes in, but no supporting data was provided. Tune in at 11 for detailed analysis about how free products differ from open source ones, with a panelist who barely understands economics or copyright law.
As in, executables that run in a browser (e.g. spoon.net). Less piracy. At this point, there's no way I'd mess with a phone app, or an old fashioned installible. Either one will be pirated by a bunch of giggling teenage basement hackers in seconds.
Yes, I could go broke by releasing my stuff as open source instead. You first.
Please do not read this sig. Thank you.
More like they sell things in-game, and this was just a publicity stunt.
Great Intellect...
I don't know about you guys, but many I know say things like this to me, "Hey you're a programmer. You should develop an iPhone or Android app and make a lot of money!"
When I try to explain to them the reality, I just get trite responses back or their eyes glaze over.
There's plenty of demand for your product when it's free. Like when you help them with their computer problems (for free) and they say, "You should do this for a living!"
"Less piracy. At this point, there's no way I'd mess with a phone app, or an old fashioned installible."
At no point have I ever, nor do I ever intend to, depends upon programs which I do not control. The "we control your data" model is bound for a big crash as soon as it causes a billion dollar lawsuit.
Great Intellect...
The article mentions the piracy rate for iOS, the rate is orders of magnitude smaller.
Everyone expects some piracy, but when 90+% of your "sales" are piracy you cannot support any app - especially so if there is any server component, or any support load at all.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I've seen many apps, not just games, that were offered for free on Android and in many reviews the user said they would pay for the app. Now you can't say that means they would go back and pay now, but it seems to me, if people are given the option to donate instead of being forced to pay upfront, they will opt to put forth some cash for what they consider good work. Haven't music artists done this to some success with making their music available online?
My blood hurts...
They just want to take away what remaining ownership you have over the software. That's all. Is that so bad?
Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
There's controlling your data and controlling your application. It's quite possible to make a web app that stores files locally. I control the app. You control your data.
Please do not read this sig. Thank you.
I do not like paying for apps. I've never paid for apps and never will pay for apps.
And that's why I don't develop for Android.
Enjoy your "free", generally ad-laden apps.
Developers should find other business models.
They are, it's called "develop for platforms where you get paid".
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
This news is coming hot on the heels of Apple's iOS in-app purchase fix. http://www.zdnet.com/hacker-on-apples-ios-in-app-purchase-fix-game-is-over-7000001409/
Yeah, and what do I do with the data if it is only readable by your program? What if I need to access it without internet? I am not at all interested in this new scam.
Great Intellect...
your game just sucks
"They" just want to take away what remaining ownership I have over the software I've written. That's all. Is that so bad?
Yes, if you're in business, it is. If I made cars, you wouldn't get them for free either.
Please do not read this sig. Thank you.
Information wants to be free. Why should programmers get a pass when musicians and moviemakers don't?
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
And I wouldn't blame you if that was the case. Look, there's no reason to do that. It pisses people off and there are pretty standard formats for most things. There's also no reason to save data to "the cloud" either. Who needs that kind of liability? I'd rather you save it locally, in RTF or csv, preferably.
Please do not read this sig. Thank you.
Just...wow. We are never going to get nice things on the platform if idiots like you are too cheap to pony up $.99 to at least give TOKEN support to developing stuff. Do i love paying for an FTP app? no, but at the same time, its $.99 and if it doesnt work there are 10 more out there, im sure one will.
Good-bye
What does that have to do with anything? Cars have little to do with the subject of copyright and the like!
"They" just want to take away what remaining ownership I have over the software I've written.
I don't believe you own the copy someone bought. The one on someone else's hard drive. Well, it's a good thing I can refrain from using things I think are garbage (like "The Cloud," where I lose all local access to the data, but that really only works for games).
Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
Do you have any justification as to what makes you entitled to pirate the applications? Just because you can?
For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
Which is the prevailing attitude around here. Look, if nobody makes money on software. Nobody's going to write much of it, other than the basement kids who will stop maintenance the day they have their first child and need to get a real job. I'm sure you want your business to depend on that.
Please do not read this sig. Thank you.
Good for you, then. That's not how the majority of this new wave of "online app" programs work, though. Even then, there is still the question about using it offline and having to depend upon external resources which might go down, both of which are in my mind prohibitive to any serious consideration.
Great Intellect...
1. Create a game with in-app-purchases, but sell it for 1$ instead of for 0$
2. Drop the price to 0 and get free advertisement on Slashdot
3. Profit! (from in-app-purchases)
But where's the ??? part?
The market will take care of apps that lock in too much. IBM tried that in the 80s with personal computers. It didn't work out so well.
Please do not read this sig. Thank you.
I don't recall anyone here claiming that iPhone piracy doesn't exist. All anyone has said is that it is much more common on Android, and that developers in general make more money selling on iOS than Android. These are facts.
- "Scientia non habet inimicum nisp ignorantem"
It's possible to do that. Creating a web app that stores the data locally in a form that is useful even if the web app becomes inaccessible, however, is far more difficult. I can still access spreadsheet files created on my Psion Series 3 that I dumped on a hard disk 20 almost years ago in their native format by running the Series 3a emulator in DOSBox and exporting them in some other format (although CSV is the only one that I can open directly, but I can use an old version of another spreadsheet as an intermediate for better preservation of formulae. Good luck doing that with a web app...
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
This developer is shady. Check the reviews for this game on Google Play. Apparently you can't get very far in the game without buying weapons/upgrades that cost real money. There are a fair number of complaints from people spending $5 for in-game credits, not receiving the credits, and getting no response from the developers.
No one cares what your captcha was
Houston TX, USA
Because some people are hypocrites, and others are just idiots. Logical answers often seem more so afar than they do when their implications reach you. On the other hand, some people try to actually practice what they preach and use open source or similar, and if they are programmers, find ways to make money without having to resort to DRM and other shady means of controlling information.
Great Intellect...
And you got a nice proof that piracy lower the games cost.
Love many, trust a few, do harm to none.
What does that have to do with anything?
Ow. Stupidity hurts! It has to do with ownership and property rights. Heard of them. They're what keeps people from wandering into your house and taking your XBox games off your kitchen table and taking them back to their house because they figure that they're entitled to them because.... just because.
Please do not read this sig. Thank you.
Heard of them.
Not sure what they have to do with this case, though. I mentioned how The Cloud essentially removes ownership of local copies from the end user, and then you brought up cars.
because they figure that they're entitled to them because
Yes, but this is about software.
Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
OK, so I'll go to your house and take your XBox games, your books and your checkbook, because "information wants to be free" and all that's information, right? Even money.
Please do not read this sig. Thank you.
Yes, but this is about software.?No, it's about property rights. If I make a sculpture, or a machine, it's mine and I can sell it and nobody has the right to take it and use it or give away copies for free, but somehow it's different for software. Please explain, ethically and legally, why that is?
Please do not read this sig. Thank you.
No, it's about property rights.
Not my comment about The Cloud. If anything, it's about "intellectual property" rights. And I was talking about local copies.
it's mine and I can sell it and nobody has the right to take it and use it or give away copies for free
If only you could make copies of cars without removing the original and give them away for free... You'd become quite famous, and you could quite possibly solve world hunger. Too bad that you can't.
ethically
The simple answer would be that the person in question believes it is so (if you're talking about morality). I'm not sure how to get in contact with magical moral fairies to find out if that's a valid answer, but we'll figure it out. Someday.
legally
Legally, it isn't. I'm pretty sure copyright infringement isn't legal in most countries.
Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
Madfinger Games has joined the long list of developers who have recently turned their paid Android based game, Dead Trigger, to a free one.
Just how many developers have written this one game, then? Oh, and it should be "into a free one."
The iOS version of the game still costs $0.99 and hasn't been made free.
Thanks for clarifying that, because when you said it still costs $0.99 I thought it might also be free.
systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
Because programmers have no concert halls or theaters to perform at.
Pretty good is actually pretty bad.
>Zero-cost, but certainly not Free Software; one has to wonder whether Open Source games with a "donation" build in the store would do better than proprietary games with upfront costs.
Yes, this has been around since the early 1980s and it died out around 1995. It was called Shareware, and huge amounts of software were released this way. Very few people ever "donated".
I wonder how many of those who download pirated apps would have bought the app from the Play store had it not been possible to pirate it. Clearly, to go through the hassle of locating an unofficial copy, downloading it, installing it, locating updates, running the risk that it will contain malware, etc., all to save less than a dollar, one must have a very, very low ability to pay and/or put a very low value on their time. Even if I had no moral qualms about pirating software, I certainly wouldn't do it to save a dollar. Seems like pointless waste of time.
That being said, what these developers are saying is not all B.S. Piracy is a red herring, but not low sales. Android is now found in cheap low-end devices whose owners might not have much cash to spend on games. And, with market fragmentation being as bad as it is, it already takes a lot of effort to develop games that will work on enough devices to be worth it.
Except that if someone takes a copy of your software, you still own it and still have your original copy. It's a poor analogy because no one has actually taken anything from you except your right to sell your hard work. Punishing those who actually do pay for your hard work by locking them in with draconian measures will cause them to slip through your grasp.
It started back in Team Fortress Classic
One thing I've noticed, which may or may not be affecting how little Android app developers are getting for their apps, is that the Google Play store is useless for discovering new apps. Totally useless. They display ads for a small number of high-profile apps, most of which would get a bunch of purchases regardless, and they rarely cycle those ads out. There's "Editor's Choice" apps, but those are the same high-profile apps and again are rarely added to. Otherwise, the only methods of discovery are looking at the top lists (which rarely change), or searching.
Most of the apps I have installed I had to discover elsewhere, including some terrific games (even terrific free games, which you'd think cheap Android users would really go for) which only have on the order of 1000 or so downloads at most, making them totally invisible as far as a user browsing the store is concerned.
Linux users tend to be smarter than regular Windows users. I bet the piracy rate with the Linux client will be much higher than the Windows version.
FTFY
Help I am stuck in a signature factory!
And your checkbook, cash, medical records (Sorry about that herpes thing), insurance statements and personal letters. I mean, they'll all be exact copies. Should be no problem then, eh?
Please do not read this sig. Thank you.
Because they couldn't be bothered to pay $0.99 at the App Store, they'll be teaming like gang busters to DONATE that dollar.
Look there's a damn good reason why Linux fails as a Mainstream OS -- because the core user base are those who think that everything should be free and would rather spend DAYS OR WEEKS trying to pirate something than pay anyone a dime.
Funny how Linux's main core of developers think that developers who make software they like should be made to code in the gutter like paupers -- or go "get a real" job and do their Linux App coding as a "hobby". The fact is every mainstream App that has come to Linux HAS LEFT in short order.
So go rail on about how it's an evil conspiracy between the hated Apple and M$ that keeps the killer Apps away while you go on pirating the works of anyone who develops for your "free and open" platform who tries to do so while paying the rent.
Radiohead says no.
The cool thing about basement kids is that as the old ones retire, new ones keep showing up!
That is a remarkable sense of entitlement you have! I admit I admire your honesty about your dishonesty.
It is obvious, however, that you have either never produced a single item of worth, or you are 14 (which would imply the first item).
Women are like electronics: you don't know how damaged they are until you try to turn them on.
They can sell documentation and services. The toe-cheese eater even said so.
Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
This is a tricky problem that invariably gets lots of people mad at me, but I will chip in anyway. Internet opinions are a dime a dozen. If you don't like mine, I'm sure you'll find one you do somewhere else.
That said:
I don't think programming, making music, or creating artworks are valid "occupations". Good hobbies, even hobbies that could produce income, but not "Occupations". I personally think that anyone who seriously thinks they can make a reliable income on any of those needs their heads examined. They all rely on apparent vaue instead of objective value. A car has objective value. The mona lisa has apparent value. There is no denying the vaue of even a horribly ugly car. There is tremendous argument over the value of an unpleasant painting. What is "ugly", and what is "unpleasant?" Those are both subjective metrics, which the artist or engineer do *NOT* have authoritative say in. That "ugly" car can have undeniable value: obscene top speeds, out of control fuel economy, long engine life, etc. Selling the ugly car might impact the price, but no-one will say that the ugly car is worthless. The mona lisa on the other hand: some people may say that it is trite; formulaic and boring in subject matter. Well rendered, but dull. There's any number of similar items created in art schools by very talented people. They end up in the dumpster regularly. That it was painted by davinci is its only outstanding value. (This is not my opinion, btw. Just a made up one that is plausble.) It is only valuable to a collector, of which the person is not one, and they therefore would not buy the painting at any price. No amount of shouting "It's a priceless masterpiece!" In their face will change their opinion, and the apparent value of the work.
The same is true for software. A developer could write pure gold in the form of completely typesafe, unexploitable loops and routines-- and still have people hate it because the app is "trite", or even "ugly." The app could be a developmer masterpiece that does radically amazing things, but people would treat it with indifference, because they don't see nor ascribe to such forms of value. This is why programming is not a valid choice as a primary occupation.
Throw into the mix that most software does not solve a particular, life changing need (outside of embedded systems and the like anyway..) and the objective value of a programmer becomes painfully and dismally clear. The plumber is more valuable for keeping the sewerage out of the kitchen, and for keeping the water running, tha a programmer making angry birds is, at leas on the objective sense.
Same with the garbage man, or the janitor.
Any time where there is a disagreement on value, regardless of type, if one party tries to force the hand of the other, an equitable arangement simply cannot be made. It's axiomatically impossible. If both parties cannot come to an equitable agreement on value, then there is no basis for an economy for that product. Not a sufficiently reliable one anyway. This is what happened to the buggywhip makers. They made a product that suddenly had no real purpose as people moved away from horse drawn vehicles. No amount of wrangling and price fixing will force the other side of the arrangement, the consumer, to purchase the product at the demanded price, and at the demanded volume. The market for the product ceased to exist. The same is true for software. If no one is willing to buy the software, no amount of wrangling, price fixing, and litigious behavior will make it a viable market. Arguing that this will result in the precipitous drop in availability of software, much like the historic drop in buggywhip manufacture, is tangental. The fact that the market cannot endure is still clearly evident.
If you are a professional software dev (IE, it is your primary source of income), my advice to you is to seek alternative employment with a consistently traded value for the labor, and do software as a potentially lucrative hobby on the side.
Same goes for music and art. You won't see me cry for your plight as the market abandons you, and you suffer a tech bubble burst. The writing is on the wall. Don't ignore it.
Did you read the links you posted? The first link has NO FIGURES at all. The second says this:
This year alone, the iOS App Store has provided developers with $3.4 billion in revenues, while the Android Market has delivered only $240 million to its developers.
That's way off from your "750 million and 500 million".
Why bother posting links if you're just going to make up the numbers anyway?!
Keep Android free please!
you mean 'free of apps, please' ?
that's the way to do it...
I can't imagine that piracy makes more than a few percent of potential Android purchases; most people just don't have the time, and the prices are too low to make it worth it. I suspect this is a marketing gimmick. As I recall from the reviews, this game already used to be free, but was constantly bugging people about in-app purchases.
Madfinger Games: free and worth every penny.
You are welcome on my lawn.
I find it hard to believe that any significant number of people pirate apps on mobile. I have rooted my Nexus S, one of the devices that Google intentionally makes it easy to hack, and it was *not* trivial (easy for computer geeks, but some command-line stuff required). Even allowing for things that hackers re-flash their OS more and install multiple times, and pirates can install all games for free, there's no way there will be more hacked games than legit ones (unless the game really sucks). So let me know when they find the bug in their "piracy rate" software...
"Zero-cost, but certainly not Free Software; one has to wonder whether Open Source games with a "donation" build in the store would do better than proprietary games with upfront costs."
Seriously? $0.99 is too much so they pirate it, but if you open source it they'll give you money instead of just playing the free version?
Not a chance. These people are just cheap. They'll take the cheap option. Open source is not some magic fairy dust that is going to fix that.
-- "So they told me that using the download page to download something was not something they anticipated." - Bill Gates
I do programming as a lucrative hobby - it's my job and I like it. I do it well and people who need programming done pay me to do it.
It's called trade - two people need something each other have and they swap. It's been done like that for ever. Except when you have fucking crazy asshats in power that think they have a different idea about how things should be done.
If you think the only valuable professions are those that don't require any significant training then you're basically suggesting that we should go back to the stone age. But don't even bother getting into stone carving - that bubble's bound to burst soon...
would be that iOS have less piracy because more users value the programs they use and with a sane pricing scheme that keep honest people honest only assholes will pirate. I work in a Data Center and admin around 150-200 servers running Windows, Solaris, Linux and AIX, but I don't pirate despite I have the knowhow because I value my job, and value the job of the developers that make the apps that I enjoy.
Mexico: 100% conservative's America now!
You sound like the kind of person that would drive across town to get a 50% discount on a $4 burger but wouldn't want to take the trouble to drive the same distance to get a 10% discount on a $1000 television. After all, 50% is more than 10%, right?
The number of people who pirate your app is irrelevant, as is the percent of people that pirate it. What is relevant is the number that buy it.
App developer reads on Slashdot about how the Ouya will bomb because of the Android pirate demon, wants some free publicity, cites piracy as reason for batshit policy on app I've never even heard of.
Do you see what I did there?
I believe I pointed out that the problem was with percieved value. If you think your widget is worth X, but the public at large thinks it is worth Y, (where Y is any integer, including 0 and negative integers.) You will not sell very many widgets.
That is exactly what is happening here. Software devs say "My app costs X". The public says "your app is worth Y". The dev tries to force the issue with DRM, and the public tries to force the issue wit piracy. Equitable exchange is fundementally broken.
thinking everyone with a large screened phone actually cares about the programs in the app store.
by TheSpoom (715771) Uncaring Linux user here. I have nothing to add to this but please continue. *munches popcorn*
The payment breakdowns for the Humble Bundle packages disagree with you.
No Android phone I've owned has the battery to support gaming. I've bought a few titles, but they collect dust now. I have an iPad, and that's where I do any sort of mobile gaming, because the battery doesn't melt under the load as fast.
so you're saying that whenever the buyer thinks a good is too expensive and they're unable to just steal it, the whole concept of trade is invalid?
And what do they do? They reinvent the wheel and that app you have been using becomes yet another piece of abandoned FLOSS crapware.
There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
Yes, you are, and you are incredibly naive. What kind of games do you expect if NO ONE pays for them?
Looking at Android, the answer would seem to be "ad-supported ones".
People must be F'in cheap if they aren't willing to spend 99 cents.
That or they live in a country without paid applications. When Google Play Store first launched as Android Market, paid applications were available only in a few countries, and developers who wanted any sort of audience needed to either A. make their applications ad-supported or otherwise free or B. offer application downloads through their own web site to users who have enabled applications from unknown sources. This set up a price expectation of $0.00 that remained even after Google expanded payment to more countries.
You can block almost all ads [in Android apps] with a properly updated hosts file.
I don't get it. Are you talking about APK (Android package format) and APK (staunch advocate of hosts files) at the same time?
So what should developers in countries still without Google in-app payment do? Or developers who want to reach users in countries still without Google in-app payment?
some people try to actually practice what they preach and use open source or similar, and if they are programmers, find ways to make money without having to resort to DRM and other shady means of controlling information.
So what's the standard "way to make money" for a freely licensed video game that is not massively multiplayer?
How many times have you pirated an app, liked it, and said, "Okay, I guess I'll buy a copy to make this all legal"?
I count at least nine: Balloon Fight, Rockin' Kats, Bionic Commando, M.C. Kids, Mega Man 2, Balloon Kid (GB), On the Ball (SNES), Super Smash TV (SNES), and the first WarioWare (GBA). Granted none of them are Android apps; most of them are NES games.
Identification documents, such as a passport, a driver's license, a checkbook, or a utility bill, are credential tokens used to prove one's identity to gain access to a system. Medical records and personal letters are likewise not published works and are thus subject to privacy laws such as trade secret. One's Xbox games and books, on the other hand, are exact copies of published works.
Because programmers have no concert halls or theaters to perform at.
They used to.
Not a specific person; the public as a whole.
If I sa my truckload of dirt costs a million dollars, and the public at large says it is worth at most 100 dollars, there is no way I can equitably sell my dirt. If I sell it for 100 dollars, I feel cheated, and consider the deal unequitable.
The cost to dig the dirt is inconsequential. The dirt could very well have cost a million to dig. It could be fabulously rich in platinum ore or something. The problem is the perception of value. If your product is percieved as cheap, and of little value, you will never reach equity in the transaction.
There are two things you can do:
1) don't sell high value dirt for 100 dollars. (High value games at .99 dollars.)
2) seek to improve public awareness so that people understand what they are getting, and why your dirt costs what it does.
If the second option incurs a cost sufficient that it negates any tangible value in getting the equitable price accepted, (yes, you start selling dirt for a million dollars, but it costs trillions of dollars to educate the public, making the effort wasted) it is completely absurd economically as an option, leaving only option #1. Don't sell high value dirt. Only sell cheap dirt, because it is all people will buy.
See for instance, my own views about the price of games.
I am completely unwilling to pay 60$ for a game. I will pay at most 45$, and that had better be epic in every sense of the word. I hold this assertion because:
I make 30k a year. This tabulates out to around 14$/hr. The equivalent of my life I expend to obtain your game is a little over 4 hours. Is your game worth 4 hours of my life? I don't believe it is. You might invest weeks or months of your life to produce the game-- no contest. The question is if it is equitable to demand 4hrs of average time spent working from the thousands of people you intend to sell it to. For the sake of argument, let's say you spent 2 years making it. (Straight up, nonstop, no sleep, total time spent == 2 years.) That is 17520 hours. At 4hrs per person, you would break parity at 4380 buyers. The average game sells millions of copies. At 1 million copies sold, that is a markup over parity for your time of 228%. Unless there are that many people involved in production, (which I don't see in the end credits...) that price is inflated. Usually games with the 60$ price point sell far more than that. Usually in the 5 to 6 million unit numbers. That comes closer to 1140 people spending 2 years of their life, nonstop, to necessitate that price, assuming equal exchange of time.
It is important to note: I do not consider your time to be more expensive than mine. I am angineer, who works in avionics. I am simply not union. My wage is equitable. If your rate of pay is necessary to be higher to have a decent quality of living, it is because your local economy suffers higher inflation than mine. By demanding the higher price as a flat rate instead of pricing for the local economy, you are expecting me to accept a bad deal. End of discussion on that point. If you had developed it locally, you would not have been paid as much for your time. Demanding that I subsidize your higher cost of living is unethical. My money is worth more to me than yours is. I expect to compartively more for it than you do. If you make 60k a year (twice what I do) you should adjust the price you think your game is worth against my pay grade and local economy's buying power. You will find that for the same equity you are demanding, you would have to be paying 120$ for your games. If you feel this is unequitable, congratulations. Now you know why I won't pay that price.
I am happy to pay at most 45$. To your buying power, that is a 90$ game. It had better be damned good.
Blanket price setting sets unrealistic prices, which people refuse to pay. Their refusal to pay that price is NOT unreasonable. The blanket pricing *IS*.
I don't care that your home costs a million dollars. Your home here, of comparable v
Zero-cost, but certainly not Free Software; one has to wonder whether Open Source games with a "donation" build in the store would do better than proprietary games with upfront costs.
I would rather pay a dollar for a high quality game than have a dumb ad supported model. There is nothing wrong with people wanting to be paid for software they have written. What is wrong is people stealing it. Worse stealing it when it only costs a dollar.
This is a troll - pure and simple
Apple users are moving to Android slowly and new users are more often choosing Android. In part because you can DO more with them.
Some of my friends want to move to android but dont because they have too much invested in content and apps. Those on Android - just go with a different manufacturer so they ALREADY have choice.
There are good things and bad things on both sides but in General - no one has shown me anything significant on apple - I cant do on my Android - but I can also visit my flash sites, I can listen to my FM radio while I walk my dogs. I can put my own content onto my phone and listen and watch it when how and where I want. I can put custom updates into the OS. They are the choices I want. I choose that because of ethics. My phone is recyclable and that was an ethical decision. I dont Pirate apps - I always pay for Apps. I dont use Apple for ethical reasons - they control content and that is not appropriate for a company. NONE of my friends or family bother pirating Android apps - and the nice thing with that is when you get a new phone - it all loads down again. Simple, easy - elegant. Possibly there are some hackers out there - that do pirate but I guarantee thats not a significant percentage of the market. Most people dont want the bother or the hassle. In Android there are multiple ways to handle the security. This is more about someone not understanding the platform - or deliberately wanting to make the platform look bad - rather than a real flaw in android. If I choose to program in C++ using COBOL techniques - I will get interesting results. It you choose to program Android using iOS techniques - you will have issues. Thats a reality of technology. It doesnt make android bad. There are far more android users out there and the number is growing. More and more people are disliking the walled Garden approach and disliking the iOS rigid control. Some people will always stay with Apple (there are some who still believe the earth is flat also and there are still DOS users out there - and I love cutting MVS / JCL myself ) but the market is moving to Android. This guy would be better to work out how to program android properly than to chuck a tantrum.
Who pirates a 99cent game? I'm betting no one. More likely, they just realised they could get more revenue per install with an ad-supported + spyware model and knew Apple wouldn't let them put spyware in the app store. Lets do a quick test... android market.. dead trigger.. permissions.. Oh look, "READ PHONE STATE AND IDENTITY - Allows the app to access the phone features of the device. An app with this permission can determine the phone number and serial number of this phone, whether a call is active, the number that call is connected to and the like." and "RETRIEVE RUNNING APPS - Allows the app to retrieve information about currently and recently running tasks. Malicious apps may discover private information about other apps." and "AUTOMATICALLY START AT BOOT Allows the app to have itself started as soon as the system has finished booting. This can make it take longer to start the tablet and allow the app to slow down the overall tablet by always running. Allows the app to have itself started as soon as the system has finished booting. This can make it take longer to start the phone and allow the app to slow down the overall phone by always running." ...... Yep, nothing suss here, a FRACKIN VIDEO GAME totally needs those permissions.
Keep your 'free' crap. And next time, at least TRY to mask your dishonesty a bit better. This bullshit isn't fooling anyone.
On Android, once you cracked the *.apk file successfully, you can distribute it to any Android device owners, and they will be able to run it.
On iOS, the scenario is different: Even you cracked the *.ipa file, other iOS device owners can't simply copy it and run, they have to _jailbreak_ their iDevices first. Since Apple has put so much effort in preventing their iDevices from jailbroken, I think the majority of the latest iDevices are not jailbroken. For these un-jailbroken iDevices, it's plain simple: There is _no_ way you can pirate _any_ apps on these iDevices.
I'm reasonably techologically competent, and I've no idea where to get pirate android apps from. Nor have I ever felt the need to buy an app. For my needs there's always already a perfectly competent free version.
Marginal cost of production.
If you are a professional software dev (IE, it is your primary source of income), my advice to you is to seek alternative employment with a consistently traded value for the labor, and do software as a potentially lucrative hobby on the side.
My company pays me a very nice salary every month for being a professional software developer thank you very much.
Zero-cost, but certainly not Free Software; one has to wonder whether Open Source games with a "donation" build in the store would do better than proprietary games with upfront costs.
They might, but it has nothing whatsoever to do with Open Source or Free Software.
I've tried this experiment a few years ago and sold a tool I made for Unity 3D for four different price points, telling people to pay whatever they thought was the fair price. It was an interesting experiment. Around 60% of the people picked the lowest price. That's surprisingly few. It taught me that people are willing to pay for something they consider worthwhile. You just have to make it easy for them.
So I'm sure if you make a good game, post it for free and include an in-app purchase for, well basically nothing, maybe a bling-bling in-game item or something, you would certainly get some money.
If more or less than upfront, I can't say. But from my experience I would suggest to give it a try.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
I looked at the stats you quote a bit and, according to them, there is more piracy in the US than there is in China. In my own country, piracy would also be rampant... I'd be willing to be bet that their methodology is absolute garbage.
I'll double check, but in my own sample, I can only name one friend who jail broke his iPhone. This would mean that any and all apps on other relatives' iDevices would be legit.
There likely is a different consumption pattern, however. Whereas the jail broken iPhone in question may have seen thousands of pirated apps over time, most normal iDevices might see zero or a handful of legit apps.
On aggregate, I can picture this leading to stats like mtiks.com's, along with the completely wrong impression and conclusion.
Ask around. Friends, family, work colleagues. For each, ask how many apps they tried, and how many apps they pirated. I'd wager you'll get the same impression I'm getting: that the dev in the article is full of shit (he's looking for free press coverage), and that the stats you quote are garbage.
Haha, hillarious, just as much a waste of time as cave paintings, ancient stone carvings, historical sculptures, skin drums, modern musical instruments, written stories, paintings, plays, symphonies, operas, movies, television series.... yes its all a waste of time, why people, why the hell did you bother to make all of this stuff, since the beginning of recorded history, what purpose does it serve?
[fun game! : spot the question that answers itself]
You're simply using a few thousand words to describe something that even high schoolers know: if supply meets demand, there is trade in the free market. And a few more thousand words to show that you clearly don't understand the basic concepts of economics.
Duh.
By the way, I get paid for more than 30k a year as a software developer. Do you think I should still heed your advice and resign from my "hobby" to take up plumbing or whatever, with "real", "objective" value? Heh....
Seriously dude, you know nothing about this world... If you did, you probably would have earned much more than 30k a year...
Here's some reading for you: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_one_price (That's just one of the many things that you seem to think you're better than all the experts in the field in the world....)
Don't quote me on this.
The supported list of devices for legit android "play" is a small fraction of the android devices out there. I have 5 android devices... (I know I have a problem)... NONE of them can use the play store. All of them can use Amazon app store though, you know because amazon supports android and google doesn't.
So basically if your app is not in the amazon store, I can't pay you for it. Also applies to free apps like facebook, I have to "pirate" it. I can't even sideload stuff from "Play" because it won't let me buy an app because I don't have any android devices associated with my account (because it won't let me).
From your own link, under the "Where it does not apply" section:
Also from that article, but as an interpretation, the one just before that one:
This is *EXACTLY* what I was talking about.
DRM such as regional protections and the prevention of the second hand marketplace actively prevents the customer from finding the good at the more appropriate price for their regional economy. While the US may have a single economy on paper (a single currency), the buying power of that currency varies wildly between the states. That means the first quoted exception rules the day; it is exactly the same as if you were doing business internationally. Where I work and live, 30k is an equitable wage. Where you live it is not.
This is no different than saying somebody in Kenya may earn only 2k a year. That 2k can get them all their food and supplies. Good luck doing that here. Their money buys more things for them, and they need less of it. Demanding a price tailored to OUR market, in THEIR market is unethical. We would be asking for over a week's wages at a 60$ price point. That's the point.
For you, a 60$ game is worth under 2hrs of work. For me, it is worth half a day. The difference in value is quite large. YOUR price is inflated for MY market. I want you to reduce your unit price, and sell more units, to match the actual VALUE of your product, when selling it in MY marketplace.
THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT YOUR QUOTED LAW SAYS TO DO. (See the second quote.)
Attempting to force me to pay the higher price by removing my options (preventing me from having knowledge of better alternatives) and by demanding that your work is worth more than my max price (your product is not sellable in my market) as the reason for it, is TWO out of the three excemptions to your vaunted "One price" law!
Sorry fucker, but I wont pay it.
That's all well and good, but when the prevailing market pressures driving down the costs of software make your paycheck impossible, dont come crying to me.
THAT is what I was getting at.
"Android based devices are being activated at the rate of million a day and users are downloading apps and games at a rate never seen before. Despite these promising stats, developers of Android based games and apps are not really keen on porting games and apps that have been successful on iOS to Android. Why?
The link provided to support the above otherwise unsupported assertion is nothing other than the story subject's own story as told by that subject. In other words, it's not an additional supporting link about the alleged problem of high rates of piracy on Android. and especially it's not any kind of independent measure of the relative frequency of app piracy iOS vs Android.
It must hurt Apple to see Google's tablet being sold out so quickly
http://tech.slashdot.org/story/12/07/23/123257/16gb-nexus-7-sold-out-on-google-play-store
Sorry, Apple. Me personally, I think your products are cool enough, but the whole walled-in garden thingy just leaves me cold.
Those count as costs, btw.
Where I work and live, 30k is an equitable wage. Where you live it is not.
You even know where I live :) I'm in a mood to pick stupid fights with idiots on the internet, now, so here I go..
Demanding a price tailored to OUR market, in THEIR market is unethical
So you think the "law of one price" should be abolished, either by DRM (as you mentioned) or by limiting information from consumers.
That means, if I'm selling my crap for a $0.01 in Kenya, I'm ethically obliged to withhold the information from you, and tell you that you must pay $1, and I am further ethically obliged to tell you this is the best price you can get.
OK, at least you're consistent about it.
Sorry fucker, but I wont pay it.
Thanks for your feedback, as if I have anything at all to sell you.
Seriously though, if you have anything to sell at all, I'll buy it from Kenya. You'll always be willing to sell it for a pittance, right?
PS: Oh well, it seems like the mods agree with you. Such is slashdot... where anything besides hard core IT (which doesn't include computer science) is wrong :)
Don't quote me on this.
In my experience it is quite the opposite. Because there is no source code available it is more likely that a closed source product will cease to be maintained and if anyone ever picks the idea up again they have to recode it from scratch. This is especially noticeable in games which seldom get updates in closed source software but are constantly updated in FLOSS. The new guys do pick up the torch. I have seen lots of FLOSS projects which are now on their 4th generation of developers.
I believe you have read what I said backwards on purpose.
Either that, or your reading comprehension skills are abysmal.
In either case:
I said that if your app costs .99 dollars in wherever USA, and you sell it in kenya for the same .99 USD price, and enforce that price with DRM, you are breaking your own law.
I was pointing out that fair market prices for say, cupertino CA-- is not consistent with the fair market price for the exact same item in say, Enid OK. Using DRM, and other methods to halt second hand sales, and other shennanigans to prevent the 60$ MSRP being violated is exactly the same thing.
But whatever.
lol I've actually made a fairly extensive game for no money.
Love for it to be ad-supported, though. Solves the piracy problem, too (within reason)
expandfairuse.org
It is not about closed source. It is about all those "basement kids" wanting to write updates to someone else's code. Instead, they reinvent an open source application that is often a reinvention of a closed source product.
Oh, and for the record, constant updates is a sign of crappy, unprofessional code.
There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
It is not about closed source. It is about all those "basement kids" wanting to write updates to someone else's code. Instead, they reinvent an open source application that is often a reinvention of a closed source product.
The closed source developers copy as much as everyone else. Otherwise we would still be using Wordperfect and Visicalc.
Oh, and for the record, constant updates is a sign of crappy, unprofessional code.
No it just means that there are interested users and developers for the product. A piece of software is only finished when people decide to stop working on it. There is always something else you can add or fix in any piece of software. There are plenty of buggy messes released by closed source vendors which never got properly fixed at all. Google Chrome is one of the most frequently updated pieces of software I have seen so far. Does it seem buggy and crappy unprofessional code to you?
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