iOS 6 Adoption Tops 25% After Just 48 Hours

An anonymous reader writes "iOS 6 has seen rapid adoption among iPhone and iPad users, reports developer David Smith. Smith's applications like Audiobooks get around 100k downloads weekly and he's taken to mapping the adoption of Apple's software releases over the last couple of years. This update's data shows a 35.4% adoption of iOS 6, with iOS 5.x holding court at 71.5% adoption. That's a pretty rapid pace, eclipsing Android Jelly Bean's 2-month adoption levels of 1.2% easily."

Comments

Good luck with those new map service.

[Mitreya]

According to what I have read, anyway.
It's a little un-Apple-like.

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[Bill Dimm]

For those that haven't already seen it, there is a growing collection of iOS 6 map glitches on The Amazing IOS 6 Maps

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[needsomemoola]

It's their first foray into the mapping world. Google has a huge head start, setting the bar pretty high. For my area it's been spot on for accuracy. And it was nice to know they acknowledged the problem and made a statement that they were working to fix inaccuracies people are reporting.

http://www.macrumors.com/2012/09/20/apple-issues-statement-over-day-1-maps-glitches-maps-team-under-lockdown-to-fix-issues/

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[recklesscoder]

Thanks for your kind wishes. That's the way I read it, anyway.

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[afgam28]

And there was also this, spotted in the London Underground:

http://www.tomshardware.com/gallery/A3QARhSCIAA2R9U,0101-353576-0-2-3-1-jpg-.html

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[HJED]

Using what appears to be WW2 survaliance photos, placing streets in the middle of rivers and lakes and moving towns a great distance away from their actual location (see GP's link) are Beta or even alpha features, this should not have replaced a working app which a large number of people rely on for directions. In Aus it dosen't even recognise any toll roads.

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[Anonymous Coward]

It's a little un-Apple-like.

The iPhone is 5 years old. The most likely explanation is that Apple had a 5 year contract with Google for using their Maps. Since we know Google jacked up the price for the Maps API by so much that lots of people were rewriting their web apps to use open street maps, the logical conclusion is the Google refused to renew the contract at any reasonable rate.

So the big question is, was this un-Google-like? Not really, it's actually more of a pattern for Google to get people hooked on their service and then jack the price up (AppEngine for instance).

"Do know evil"

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[HJED]

Yeah, but Apples satalite imagrey includes many black and white images as well as clouds, names out-dataed decades ago and in Aus navigation can not use toll roads.

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[pseudofrog]

No, there is plenty to see here.

Maps and navigation are a big deal on smartphones. Phone calls are their most important function, but Internet browsing and maps/navigation vie for the second most important feature.

And no, Google Maps doesn't even begin to approach this failure. Not even close. Aside from the horrific rendering, missing roads, and an inability to find what should be obvious searches, it doesn't even attempt to duplicate useful functionaly present in Google Maps. Public transportation? Use 3rd-party apps. Walking directions? Lol who walks these days?

Apple fans agree.

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[Bill Dimm]

Misinterpreted destinations, sure, and those glitches aren't obvious if you don't know the area, so they can be very time consuming to find and correct. If you page through the Amazing Maps collection, you'll find a lot of stuff that is obviously messed up even to someone that doesn't know anything about geography, like clouds, warped roads, and complete mutilation.

Anyway, I don't have a horse in this race -- I just thought it was interesting to look at.

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[shutdown -p now]

The difference is in the sheer magnitude of glitches. When your map software shows Golden Gate bridge and Washington monument off by several miles, it begs the question of who even tested it, and how.

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[pseudofrog]

Apple doesn't abide by Google's standard pricing. They had the biggest contract by far, and Google surely wanted to keep it. (Google just dropped Maps pricing by 88%, incidentally. They do need to turn a profit.)

The ultimate irony, however, is the fact that Apple would be whining about Google not being fair with their pricing. This is the same Apple who's launching countless lawsuits against Android manufacturers. If I were running Google, I wouldn't even negotiate with them. Nor would I submit a Google Maps app for iOS.

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[sg_oneill]

The big problem for me is I mostly use the google map for its *excellent* bus and train routing. I can just drop in an address, let it pull my current location from the GPS and have it give me really great bus/train combinations. Apple has dropped this feature

Until theres an alternative I simply cant upgrade. Which is a problem for me, being a full time IOS developer and all that.

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[93 Escort Wagon]

Yeah, my 3GS is eligible for iOS 6 - but there's no way I'm upgrading until Google's standalone Maps app is released.

I understand the reasoning behind Apple not wanting to keep paying Google for their maps; but I use the current Maps app pretty often. Apple's app - even without considering the glitches - gives away too much functionality.

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[guises]

Sure their implementation is new and Apple deserves some slack for that, but that's not the criticism here. The criticism is that they've removed the solid Google maps and replaced it with this subpar one. Apple could have easily just added their own maps to the app store and let people use it optionally until their implementation was ready for prime time. Instead they went the petty route.

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[artor3]

You know what would be even nicer than acknowledging the problem? Allowing their users to choose which map program they want to use, instead of forcing them to be pawns in Apple's war on Google.

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[sjukfan]

The crappy map is just a trick so people don't take a good look at the other features.

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[tgibbs]

Before the update, Apple did not have voice routing on the iPhone. Now it does. Most people seem to be finding it reasonably reliable for routing to an address, although I've occasionally encountered misrouting on every GPS system I've ever used.

But there are numerous alternatives, both paid and free--including Google Maps, readily accessible from Safari (you can add an icon to your home screen for convenience), which provides the same public transportation routing that the app version previously supplied.

So it is hardly surprising that iPhone owners are not reluctant to update.

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[thegarbz]

Yawn, call me when Google Maps starts misspelling or misplacing capital cities of several countries around the world.

Man some of you guys have been severely blinded by the shiny. Steve is dead, you can come back to reality now.

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[LordLimecat]

Sure their implementation is new and Apple deserves some slack for thaT

They deserve slack for replacing a well known, well tested, highly reliable and popular service with their in-house verison which is apparently poorly tested and unpopular-- all in the name of a popularity contest?

No, they took a gamble to try to marginalize Google, and apparently its half baked. I see no reason anyone would give them slack.

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[LordLimecat]

Isnt IOS 6 a free upgrade? And compatible across ~90% of apple devices?

Im gonna guess THAT is why the adoption rate is so high, not because Apple is good at bilking money out of users (which is irrelevant if the update is, in fact, free).

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[Grishnakh]

That would be nice, but this is Apple we're talking about. They've proven over and over how petty and vindictive and what control freaks they are. If you continue to be a customer of theirs, you have to know what you're getting into, and expecting good behavior from them is naive in the extreme.

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[kaws]

I wouldn't be surprised if this is what happened. The other side of the story is maybe it's google's doing? Google Maps is not Apple's sole property. Granted, I feel more like Apple doing it is correct.

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[Man On Pink Corner]

Not clear how a product-planning fuckup on Apple's part constitutes an emergency on Google's part.

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[Genda]

You don't understand... Steve was dying, and Google mocked him by making a hydra in the shape of his greatest brain child. That damned Android just wouldn't die, and the more heads Steve cut off, the more the damn thing would grow. He had to crush Google and its Gawd forsaken Android. He had no choice but to jettison every bit of Google from the AppleSphere. If it hurts Apple, so be it, Android must be obliterated or the space time continuum will shatter!

So clearly you must see it was a simple business decision.

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[AvitarX]

Phone calls are their most important function

It's been a long time since that's been true for me, phone calls come behind texting, Im, email, facebook, camera, maps, radio, and web browser for me (I use most of these more in a day than the phone in a typical week).

Aside from some business things that don't come to my office number, and my grandmother, I don't use the phone. 911 is the only function it has I found important, and I wouldn't be surprised if I never actually need that.

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[mosb1000]

Google maps for iPhone doesn't have turn by turn directions. Apple couldn't afford not to have that feature. It's as simple as that.

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[mosb1000]

I just searched for those two places, and it gave me the right locations. Maybe this is a problem that's not as hard to fix as you think?

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[Man On Pink Corner]

Right, and so did Apple. It was Apple's responsibility to start working on their in-house solution early enough to have it ready by the time the Google contract expired. Failing that, it was their responsibility to pay whatever it took to renew the contract.

Instead, Apple turned their own customers into pawns in their "thermonuclear" pissing match with Google.

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[tsa]

I think that if Apple, Google and Samsung were countries we would have World War 3 today. Why do Apple and Google try to solve their disputes over the backs of their customers? I thought I'd use Google Maps in Safari to get Street View back, but even that doesn't work. Google Earth on the iPad is just a shadow of what it is on the Mac. why is that? And I didn't even mention YouTube...

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[hairyfeet]

He who buys into walled garden shouldn't be surprised if the view sucks.

Seriously man this IS Apple we are talking about, a company that makes Ballmer's MSFT look like the Care Bears. "Apple products" and "playing nice" are two phrases that don't go together, in fact they hate each other. Its not like any of this is a secret, its been SOP at Apple for as long as I can remember.

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[tsa]

That's what my fanboi friend said (not implying that you are a fanboi). But the truth is, Apple broke my iPad with iOS 6 and I want my money back. Why would I download some third-party apps to get back the fuctionality that I had?

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

Google's products are still not Apple's responsibility. The SEP field is strong today.

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[the_B0fh]

Not to take away from their mistakes, but, one of the good things iOS brought to smartphones was a full fledged browser, so that means you can go to http://maps.google.com/ ...

A friend commented on FB that a problem (even a serious one like this) with a usable workaround (or use non-3D maps) is lower on the bad scale, compared to non-Nexus Android phones that do not receive timely security patches or upgrades. I have to agree with him.

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[the_B0fh]

this may help

http://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3137431&cid=41426091

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[HJED]

However maps.google.com does not provide turn by turn navigation, something the google app did (and does on Android) and something which the new apple app makes a very poor attempt to do.
In other words users that upgrade will lose this feature (and it is a very heavily used feature) because Apple decided to replace the google app with a beta product.

I'd rather have late upgrades (and my provider usually provides them resonably quickly) than upgrades which remove functionality.

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[CodeheadUK]

The RDF is strong here. Now Apple invented the mobile browser?

I guess Opera will be getting letters from Apple's lawyers for that ACID2 compliant SmartPhone browser that was available a whole year before the iPhone even launched.

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[itsdapead]

Except it's not just innaccuracies: the first thing I did was switch to satellite view and, instead of the pretty decent satellite/ariel imgery of my local area on the previous data, I get a murky, low res, black-and-white mess, in which the local city centre is shrouded in cloud. Apart from a handful of major cities with the fancy 'flyover' feature, every where I've tried so far has cruddy satellite imagery. How are they gonna crowdsource that?

Then there's major missing functionality: no street view, which was really useful for getting an idea of what your dstination looked like from the street. No public transport - I get 'recommended' a list of Apps the only credible one (i.e. doesn't have a 1-star review and clearly covers my area) costs £50 - and probably more if I want to get coverage of Europe and N. America too (all free in the old app)..

Walking directions are there but (unlike the old map) you can't toggle between modes, but have to select transport mode from the start/end dialogue, and have to start again if you want to change mode. The fact that people have missed this and are saying that there are no walking directions suggests that someone skimped on their user testing.

By way of return, we get turn-by-turn (which I was quite happy to have as a separate App because it needs a different UI anyway, plus - unlike Maps - it's useless on a WiFi iPad) and a 'flyover' gimmick that Google Earth has offered for years. Oh, yes, and now I can rotate the map just in case I have a spatial reasoning dysfunction. Whoopie.

Yes - its hard to set up your own international mapping service, but then Apple aren't some struggling startup and they're not creating something brand new: they have more money than God, branches around the world and a clear 'minimum standard' to aim for in the old Apps. iOS is supposed to be a stable system - they've suddenly yanked major functionality and switched to significantly inferior data. Whatever the reason, that's a fail.

PS: Yes, Google may release their own App, which Apple may or may not approve, but Crapple Maps will still be the default for integration with contacts, canlendar, web etc. Apple have also undermined people's confidence in their quality control.

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[itsdapead]

Google maps for iPhone doesn't have turn by turn directions. Apple couldn't afford not to have that feature. It's as simple as that.

Nor could they afford to fuck up the rest of Maps' functionality just for the sake of turn-by-turn. There are turn-by-turn Apps available, free and paid, and Apple could have probably produced their own turn-by-turm App in parallel with the old Maps app (AFAIK the App itself was always written by Apple - it just used Google's mapping services/API). Quite honestly, it doesn't matter that much if turn-by-turn is separate: it needs a unique UI anyway, plus it's not much use for the millions of people with WiFi-only iPads.

We don't know what the contractual spat is between Google and Apple or whose fault it is - but since Google makes their money from web services/ad targeting (and mainly makes 'platforms' as a loss-leader to promote those services) while Apple makes its money by designing nice platforms and selling premium-priced hardware to run them, it's hard to see why they can't make a mutually beneficial deal. Someone is being a dick, and risking ruining their reputation in a misguided attempt to muscle in on the other's business.

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[itsdapead]

Google, for their part, seem to be taking their sweet time getting their Map app into the App Store, claiming "Before Christmas".

I mean, what's the holdup? Teaching Apple a Lesson?

The Maps debacle only broke last week. So far it's hitting early adopters, but as more and more people upgrade their iDevices or receive their iPhone 5s and actually try and use the Maps, this is going to grow. If I were Google I'd wait until people knew they were in trouble before springing to the rescue. They'd appreciate it more.

At least leave it until after Thanksgiving when everybody in Metropolis USA (with acceptable coverage on Apple Maps) flies home to their folks in Smallville (100 miles to the west of where it should be, in black-and-white and covered in cloud).

Alternatively... the Google Nexus phone is about due for an update.

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[Rockoon]

You want petty and vindictive? Wait until Samsung has television ads comparing people navigating with iOS 6 vs navigating with Android 4.

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[mosb1000]

It doesn't need a unique UI. When you get directions in maps, it will automatically guide you as you're driving.

The claim that they've fucked up the rest of Maps' functionality is largely overblown. I'm a developer, and I've been using the maps application since the beta was released to developers. I haven't even noticed any errors in it, let alone been inconvenienced by them. On the other hand, I've found the 3D maps useful for finding hiking trails, as strange as that sounds, because the image quality in the national parks is amazing and it's easy to pick out trails, even ones that aren't on any map.

Also, when I was using Google maps, I got burned more than once on their "unverified" listings. Many of the restaurants and small businesses they list are no longer in business. I had taken to calling the numbers listed to make sure the listings in google maps were legitimate. I haven't noticed that with Apple maps, because they get their listings from Yelp. Though maybe as it matures it will become a problem.

If I was using public transit, I may feel differently. But then again, I found the google maps public transit directions to be flawed when I did live in the city. I was always having to tweak the start and end location because the directions it gave me didn't let me choose how far I was willing to walk before I started/after I finished. Even so, I hope Apple does add it in the future.

As far as who is responsible, that's hardly relevant. The fact is that there's no excuse for a modern phone not to have built in, free turn by turn directions. Apple really didn't have a choice but to switch. From a business perspective, it was also unwise for them to have a core feature of the phone provided by a competitor. It would put them in a precarious situation whether or not they were on good terms with Google.

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[shutdown -p now]

I would imagine that the corresponding crew within Apple is working like mad to fix all the hot issues after they've been plastered all over the Net.

This was just an example, anyway. If they had that kind of thing wrong out of the box, imagine what else is there.

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[Ksevio]

Opera mobile is full fledged and was out much earlier than the iPhone

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[Deliveranc3]

The app you're looking for is navigation. Local navigation in Toronto is a bit spotty, it keeps trying to take me to Buffalo :P

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[matthewmacleod]

To make it clear, the Google Maps app on iOS did not provide turn-by-turn navigation.

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[HJED]

It did provide something similar, I've used it. (It may not have been full turn by turn, I can't remember, but it was close).

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[Kergan]

Yeah, my 3GS is eligible for iOS 6 - but there's no way I'm upgrading until Google's standalone Maps app is released.

That might be a very long wait/a.

Btw... What's wrong with opening Google Maps in Safari and pinning it to the home screen? Opening it using the icon on the home screen should get rid of Safari's chrome if Google did this right.

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[mosb1000]

While its easy to imagine that almost everything must be totally wrong, I've been using the maps app since the iOS 6 beta came out, and I haven't noticed any error during my day-to-day use in that time. Nor did I notice any errors when I was just exploring around places I'd been before using the 3D feature. Of course, I didn't notice the Washington Monument's placement, since they don't have Washington DC in 3D, so it might be the case they've been more careful with their 3D coverage.

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[nospam007]

"I haven't even noticed any errors in it, let alone been inconvenienced by them."

It's good to be you then.

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[imagined.by]

The iOS app for google maps provides a map which shows your route and has two arrow buttons to switch back and forth between turn points. But there are neither voice directions nor "signs" where you have to drive, you have to derive all info from the top down view, which is basically unusable if you have to drive and navigate yourself.

This isn't turn by turn.

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[cyber-vandal]

I saw a thread with people bitterly complaining about this and there were still fanboys on there saying retarded things like "no-one forced you to upgrade to iOS6". It's all a bit pathetic really. Apple fucked up, and worse than that they fucked up and have prevented their users from using an alternative that works. iOS probably is better than ICS and I'm sure the apps are more polished, but this sort of idiotic lockdown means that I will never buy an iOS device.

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[PopeRatzo]

For those that haven't already seen it, there is a growing collection of iOS 6 map glitches on The Amazing IOS 6 Maps [tumblr.com]

Even after all this time I have a hard time understanding that they actually just told all their customers - millions of them: "No, you cannot have the Google Maps you've been happily using for years now and is among the most popular apps on iOS. And fuck you, that's why."

I just cannot abide by walled gardens. I don't have one in my back yard and won't have one on my computers. It's probably a generational thing, but it goes against everything that got me started using computers in the first place. And no, the fact that hundreds of millions of people just adore them does not make a bit of difference to me.

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[CapuchinSeven]

Only on Slashdot does this inaccuracy and borderline lie get modded as 5 insightful.

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[toruonu]

On what? Pre-iPhone you were hard pressed in finding a decent device to actually look at sites on...

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[gtall]

"Someone is being a dick, and risking ruining their reputation in a misguided attempt to muscle in on the other's business."

I don't think that is entirely true. If Google was not behind a competing platform, then it would be true. Apple probably fears that Google will make their software work better on their OSs which would make Apple's iStuff look bad. So whether Apple likes it or not, they are forced into building competing software for their own iThings.

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[Rich0]

Well, there is certainly plenty of fault to go around:

1. You don't have to break maps to deploy security updates.
2. The android practice of not deploying security updates is one day going to lead to a massive cataclysm. If somebody manages to come up with some kind of email worm for Android you're going to see some fun times as the vendors tell everybody to just throw out their six-month-old phones and buy new ones.

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[tgibbs]

It sounds like what you are saying is that you didn't bother to check out what the advantages and disadvantages of the new iOS version before updating (even though there were articles about it all over the net even before the upgrade came out), and you are too lazy to download 3rd party apps, and you blame Apple.

Apple's apps are nice, but if you don't take advantage of apps other than Apple's, you are actually missing out on much of the functionality of your iPad.

If you really miss Google Maps all that much, here's an easy way to get it back, which doesn't even require downloading a 3rd party app.

1. Start Safari
2. Enter www.maps.google.com in the address field
3. Tap the middle icon at the bottom of the screen (the box and arrow)
4. Tap "Add to home screen"

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[icebraining]

On an LG Prada.

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[BasilBrush]

Using what appears to be WW2 survaliance photos, placing streets in the middle of rivers and lakes and moving towns a great distance away from their actual location (see GP's link) are Beta or even alpha feature

Not to worry, their competitor is Google, and their products are perpetually in beta.

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[BasilBrush]

It would draw the route between two points on a 2D map with north always up. Useful, but a long way from turn by turn directions.

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[BasilBrush]

It's +2 Pro-android and +2 Anti-Apple. That's what the herd mentality here thinks is insightful.

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[BasilBrush]

ACID2 is n't the be-all and end-all of browsers. Apple were the first ones that made a smartphone browser bearable with their dragging inertial scroll and double tap and pinch zoom.

Opera's focus was more on re-laying out of pages to make them the same width as a phone screen, and on reducing bandwidth. Nice innovations, but blown out of the water by what Apple did for usability.

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[BasilBrush]

The original license for Google Maps on iOS ran out. We don't actually know which of the companies chose to remove Google Maps, nor under what circumstances. In renegotiating, Google may have been pushing for adverts or to collect user data, and Apple may have refused that. No one outside of Apple and Google management knows for sure.

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[jrumney]

It's their first foray into the mapping world.

Who, Tomtom/TeleAtlas? They've been in the business a lot longer than Google has.

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[BasilBrush]

It's only been out a couple of days. Rather too soon to call it unpopular. For sure, the people reviewing it have been pointing out it's got more errors than Google Maps at this time. That doesn't mean people won't use it. Being pre-installed means a lot of people will use it, just because it's already there. And the fact that it has turn-by-turn nav, which Google maps didn't may make many people prefer it. So it may very well prove very popular.

And it's by having lots of real users out there, that the accuracy of the maps will be improved.

Remember when people wrote off Safari because it didn't support Flash? In reality it wasn't much of a problem, and became less so as time went on.

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[BasilBrush]

No, Google Maps for iOS 5 and earlier does not have turn by turn directions. Not even mute ones. It has routes between two points, drawn on a north upward 2D map. There's no indicator saying what direction you need to take at the next junction.

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[dinfinity]

Right.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opera_Mobile#History

Served me very well, even on my Sony Ericsson P800 in 2003.

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[BasilBrush]

It may well be true of the majority. Just because the reviewers are looking for errors and find them (perhaps by googling for them), doesn't necessarily mean that they are so common the average user will notice them in general usage. Back in the day, people used to have fun finding the most ridiculous errors in Google maps too. But it didn't mean that Google maps was problematic for the average user in those early days.

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[BasilBrush]

They can chose: there are lots of mapping solutions on the App Store. And as soon as Google release it's own version of maps there, it'll be one of the choices.

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[Just Some Guy]

They deserve slack for replacing a well known, well tested, highly reliable and popular service with their in-house verison which is apparently poorly tested and unpopular-- all in the name of a popularity contest?

I wonder about that. Apple must have had a pretty strong reason to drop such an important and widely-used app from their most popular product, so what could that have been? Petty spite is possible, but it doesn't seem plausible. Maybe Apple decided it's not good to be dependent on their only competitor in the mobile space? Or maybe Google refused to put any significant work into updating Maps; I don't recall any major new features appearing for it in recent years)? Perhaps Google hinted that it's an awfully nice mapping app they've got there - it'd be a pity if something were to happen to it. Or maybe it was just a combination of those and other factors that made Apple say, "you know, this isn't going to be any less painful if we put it off. Let's bite the bullet and get started with a self-hosted app sooner rather than later."

I can imagine quite a few reasons why a company might not have wanted to be in the position that Apple was with Google's Maps app. A popularity wasn't one of them.

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[BasilBrush]

Right, and so did Apple. It was Apple's responsibility to start working on their in-house solution early enough to have it ready by the time the Google contract expired.

It is not only ready, it's shipped. ALL mapping solutions have shipped with plenty of data errors. They need people actually using the system to clear those errors up. And remember it's a moving target. The road system and points of interest change day by day. A map system that tries to have perfect data before it ships won't ever ship.

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[BasilBrush]

Right, and so did Apple. It was Apple's responsibility to start working on their in-house solution early enough to have it ready by the time the Google contract expired.

They did. Apple have been working on it for years. And it's not only ready, it's shipped. It's not perfect, but no mapping solution is, especially v1.0.

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[marsu_k]

You seem to be trying

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[BasilBrush]

Apart from a handful of major cities with the fancy 'flyover' feature, every where I've tried so far has cruddy satellite imagery. How are they gonna crowdsource that?

Back when Google launched Street View, only a few cities were covered. IIRC, in the UK it was only central London. But as time whet on, more cities were covered, and then more and more countryside.

The flyover feature is achieved by Apple contracting planes to fly over cities, photographing from multiple angles. Just like Street View, as time goes on, more and more places will be covered. In the meantime, they are using existing satellite imagery from their various data suppliers - and it's of very variable quality.

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[BasilBrush]

I would imagine that the corresponding crew within Apple is working like mad to fix all the hot issues after they've been plastered all over the Net.

For sure. So already, 4 days after release, Apple Maps is already much improved. This is exactly why mapping solutions are released to the public before their data is perfect.

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[BasilBrush]

I'm just updating to iOS6 now. Tell me a capital city that is misspelled or misplaced, and I will look it up.

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[Quiet_Desperation]

I dunno... I checked the area around my house, and just about *every* listed shop and restaurant is off by an average of half a block with a lot of wrong side of the street errors. Within a mile there's half a dozen places labeled with names of businesses that are not even in this area. A MacDonald's is labeled as a sushi place I don't think has a presence in my state.

I'm a big apple user, but this is going to be a PR fiasco like they have never experienced. People have a point. A company that prides itself on GUI excellence and knows it is under intense scrutiny from fans and haters alike releases this because they can't play nice with Google (if there's a better theory, let me know)? Honestly, I was expecting Cook to announce they fucked up and got the wrong version of Maps into the installer, or the cloud database had been corrupted accidently, but we got some tepid "work in progress" response from a PR flack.

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[samoanbiscuit]

Hmmm... Seems reminiscent of a certain "Mac Vs. PC" ad campaign a certain company ran a few years back...

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[samoanbiscuit]

Google has already submitted their app to the app store, it's pending Apple's approval. Now who's being petty?

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[BlueStraggler]

I upgraded just to see what all the maps bitching was all about, and was surprised to discover that the Apple maps were actually quite superior for my area. Google maps actually got street names wrong, where Apple had them right, and the Google satellite views were 3 years old, showing construction zones where Apple showed fully occupied developments. And I'm in Canada where I would have expected them to skimp on data quality for first release.

And the 3D map view with compass turned on is beyond sweet - it's like bird's-eye augmented reality.

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[ceoyoyo]

Google Maps has lots of glitches too, and there were a lot more when it was new. Google maps usually misdirects me about one time in three, either by plotting addresses in the wrong part of the city or by trying to send me the wrong way down a one way street.

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[ceoyoyo]

Google insisted they couldn't do turn by turn navigation on the iPhone, then went and did it in Android. That alone should have been enough.

How much do you want to bet Google is madly working on an iOS maps app right now, with all the features of their mapping service on Android? Wait a few months and iPhone users will likely have much better free mapping solutions than they did a month ago.

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[rhsanborn]

I wonder if the royalties that google imposed on map API calls was an issue?

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[ceoyoyo]

No, it doesn't. Not really. It doesn't recalculate, it doesn't automatically advance, etc. It's got turn by turn directions like printing off a Google map at home does.

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[ceoyoyo]

Strange, the Apple maps app on my phone has walking directions. Maybe you haven't looked closely?

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[green1]

And the fact that it has turn-by-turn nav, which Google maps didn't may make many people prefer it. So it may very well prove very popular.

This is the thing that constantly astonishes me, the things that Apple users put up with... iphone seriously hasn't had turn by turn directions until now????? just one more of a very very long line of features that come to iphone only many years after being available on every other platform.
Why do iphone users put up with always being so far behind the curve on every feature?

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[Bill Dimm]

Kiev

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[green1]

Before the update, Apple did not have voice routing on the iPhone.

another in an increasingly long list of features that apple fans have been willing to live without for many years after the same feature became standard on every other phone out there...
For such an "innovative" company they sure are a long way behind their competition on pretty much everything...

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[makomk]

Well, Apple did put in a lot of effort to make sure that, unlike on other platforms, there's no way for users to downgrade back to an older version if they realise that the new version is horribly broken...

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[Grishnakh]

Not only is it reality, it's perfectly warranted. Apple was the one that started down this road of nastiness, not Samsung, so they'd just be 'hoist by their own petard'. Remember, Samsung was (and still is) a major supplier of components for Apple. Suing them was absolutely stupid. Why Samsung doesn't just suddenly cut off their supply of CPUs for the iPhone, I'm not sure (probably contractual obligations).

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[Mike Buddha]

Just because it wasn't as good doesn't mean that it didn't exist.

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[93 Escort Wagon]

Btw... What's wrong with opening Google Maps in Safari and pinning it to the home screen? Opening it using the icon on the home screen should get rid of Safari's chrome if Google did this right.

Nothing - and if I had a reason I really wanted to upgrade to iOS 6, that's probably what I'd do.

It's actually the way I access my Gmail account, since the iOS app Google provides is rather lacking compared to its Android cousin (STILL no support for multiple accounts, Google? That's just being petty).

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[tgibbs]

I hit "update" right away, but I wasn't particularly concerned. I'd had my iPhone long enough to know that there is a wealth of mapping and navigation apps available for it, and that Google Maps is readily accessed via Safari.

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[gutnor]

They had the biggest contract by far, and Google surely wanted to keep it.

surely ?

If I were running Google, I wouldn't even negotiate with them. Nor would I submit a Google Maps app for iOS.

Indeed there is bad blood. By you first reasoning, Apple is spending billion in an app that has little strategical value with its core business, surely they wouldn't do that without as good reason. Works both ways, difficult to say which one is a dick.

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[mosb1000]

Really?! Where do you live?

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[hovelander]

Opera can never seem to catch a break, can they. Even I forgot that they were the only real mobile browser before webkit came to mobile.

Opera, the Rodney Dangerfield of browsers.

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[Random Destruction]

Did someone rewrite history and eliminate pocket pcs and similarly-equipped phones? Or did the iphone retroactively invent this concept?

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[HJED]

You could go through the directions turn-by turn, however I am now remembering it didn't turn automatically (you had to press a button) That is still turn by turn however and working directions are still better then completly useless directions. (I haven't used an iphone for quiet some time).

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[Rockoon]

Certainly contractual...

Apple is probably already fishing for a new supplier, because any future contracts with Samsung will have lawsuit clauses all over it. "You sue us for any reason, and we can back out of this contract whenever it is most advantageous for us, but you cant ever back out."

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[Grishnakh]

The way Apple's been acting, I wonder who they could find who'd really want to get involved with them without a similar one-sided contract. Any other suppliers (not just for CPUs, this probably goes for anything) would probably be very concerned about getting involved with them, after seeing how they've treated what's probably their biggest and most important supplier. Doesn't Samsung also supply their LCD screens?

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[Your.Master]

This is Apple's product. Apple makes iPhones, not Google.

The context of this is somebody suggesting that Google is withholding a maps app as petty vengeance against Apple. Which is ridiculous. But even if true, if Apple gets hurt by this then that's nobody's problem or responsibility but Apple.

Your argument would make more sense if we were talking about Google losing map marketshare or something like that -- in that case, Google not having a solution ready in time is just biting themselves because people are forced to adapt either to iOS6 maps or some other alternative maps software. In that sense I agree with you that maybe Google could have been more prepared. But that's not the conversation they were having when you joined in.

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[BasilBrush]

Sure enough, it's still spelled Kylv. Will keep my eye on that one to see how long it takes to correct.

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[Your.Master]

They do have public transportation and walking directions. Press the arrow that goes up then to the right, on the top-left corner of the iPhone, which gives you the start/end interface. There's a control very similar to the Google Maps control there.

I couldn't find it at first and I was pretty pissed because that's my main use case for the phone -- that and some games. If I couldn't get those directions (either natively or in a good 3rd party app), I'd get a different phone.

Occasionally I make calls I guess :). But any phone can do that and the iPhone isn't particularly special on that front.

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[tsa]

Show me how to get my beloved Street View back then.
That is the point: no one told me that my beloved Street View, and full-screen movies in YouTube, two things I used a lot and loved to bits, are suddenly totally gone from the iPad. I thought I would get them via Safari, but no. So again: Apple broke my iPad and I want my money back or a downgrade. I will not get either of them, so I feel screwed.

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[gmhowell]

Works both ways, difficult to say which one is a dick.

I go with the one that didn't have a mobile phone strategy until after the CEO sat on the other company's board of directors during the development of said company's mobile phone strategy.

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[toruonu]

No, but those were really and truly crap for browsing. I was an early adopter and all the treos etc in the world couldn't compete or truly be well usable. Their screens were of crappy quality, low res and only half of the device due to keyboards. If you want to call that browsing, then good luck...

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[MarkGriz]

We'll have to see if it gets rejected for "duplicate functionality" before we can say for sure.

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[BasilBrush]

I live in the North of England, and I can't find a single error in my area. When viewing with satellite imagery, all the map roads perfectly match the roads on the photos, and all the POIs I can see are correct.

So clearly it depends where you live. Some places are better than others.

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[BasilBrush]

This goes to the reason Apple had to produce it's own Maps system. The reason there was no turn-by-turn is that Google wouldn't allow it with their system on the iPhone.

Why do iphone users put up with always being so far behind the curve on every feature?

Don't be silly. The iPhone has many features before Android. For example iPhone now has built in panoramas by just sweeping the camera across the scene. Android doesn't.

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[itsdapead]

I live in the North of England, and I can't find a single error in my area. When viewing with satellite imagery, all the map roads perfectly match the roads on the photos

If you can see roads on the satellite photos then you don't live in Lancaster (horribly low res) or Nottingham (it was obviously cloudy that day), for example.

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[the_B0fh]

"that shipped with a phone".

Honestly, I don't remember if Opera shipped with any phones or was it a separate download.

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[green1]

I see your panoramas and raise you proper multitasking, and real widget support.

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[mattack2]

If you're referring to the old Maps app, I agree with you.. it's absolutely not turn by turn..

I used it many times as a suitable navigation aid device. (In fact, I used it INSTEAD of the little GPS unit I got as a Christmas present a year or two earlier, because it's SO much easier to type in the full address or even just street, zip or street, city as opposed to the horrendous multi-entry modal input on GPS units.)

Yes, I prefer the new turn by turn..

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[TaxDoktor]

Unfortunately due to Apples extreme restrictions, similar to what Microsoft was sued for when it came to competing Browsers running on their platform, a user can not change the default browser or map app, or anything else for that matter. So users will need to copy and past addresses from their contact list continually, rather than click on a user and have the desired map come up. However this is just one of the Apple limitations that keep a user from getting the experience they want instead of being stuck with the dictated way Apple thinks it should be. Considering the stupid move by Apple to get rid of Google Maps and replace it with an obviously inferior product I can't believe people are jumping on the IOS update. I personally will be sticking with IOS5 until either Google is allowed to release a nice mapping app for IOS6, or Apple gets their act in gear and does some serious database work to fix the junk maps they released. It would have been nice to have what I hear is a semi-working SIRI in Canada, but after being sold on SIRI for the 4S and finding out later most of SIRI was not supported in Canada, I am accustomed to disappointment, lol. But as you say, most Apple users are non-technicals that just flock to the coolest fad like businessmen riding Harleys etc. I will be moving to Android as soon as my current contract is up. Apple is toast in my books after the ridiculous patent war they apparently won against Samsung; as a developer I can't support those types of cheesy patents.

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[BasilBrush]

Android Multitasking is the easy. It's just exposing the normal multi-tasking of Linux. Of course BSD that iOS is based on has multitasking too. And indeed it's used by the system software.

But Apple didn't expose that for third parties. Rather than do the easy thing, they did something better.

Android multitasking apps gives performance and battery problems, with the result that users need to fuck around with task managers and kill apps. That is insane for a phone. And that's why iPhone doesn't make that mistake.

But hey, there's no point doing tit for tat first implementation of features. I've already proved your statement that Apple is "so far behind the curve on every feature" wrong by one example. There's no need for me to make a list.

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[BasilBrush]

That's right, I don't.

Meanwhile in the huge market of China, it seems Apple Maps is already better on day one than Google Maps is after all these years.
http://anthonydrendel.com/blog/2012/9/24/ios-maps-and-china.html

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[Culture20]

No, Google Maps for iOS 5 and earlier does not have turn by turn directions. Not even mute ones. It has routes between two points, drawn on a north upward 2D map. There's no indicator saying what direction you need to take at the next junction.

Yes, it does. I use it whenever I take a trip. You have to tell it when you've turned, but it shows you a new map up to the next turn. If you can't understand a north-upward 2D map, then you've got problems.

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[BasilBrush]

Yes, it's like the Pedestrian Mode on a Garmin. scaled for the next section of the route, not scaled for the junction you're about to arrive at. It's section-by-section, not turn-by-turn. Bloody useless for driving.

Of course I can understand a north-upward map - but it's not what you want when driving. You need a representation of the junction ahead, oriented in the direction you are driving. Otherwise, your eyes are taken off the road for too long.

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[MachineShedFred]

An odd effect that competition has...

Even if Apple's map thing only exists to get Google off their ass, it was worth it.

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[ceoyoyo]

Yup. I fully expect that Google will release a full featured navigation app for the iPhone, like the one on Android, which everyone expected when it was announced for Android. Google might even improve the Android version so it lives up to the promo videos they released.

Apple's maps app is quite good too. It's quite a bit quicker and seems more reliable than the Google version was. The only issues seem to be database related, and some crowdsourcing will iron that out (the same way Google improved their database).

Personally I think it's well worth not only having good competitors to Google Maps but also competitors who are a little less into data aggregation and advertising.

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[MachineShedFred]

To be fair, Google was not a competitor with Apple when they inked the deal for Google Maps on the original iPhone. That changed drastically over the course of the 5-year contract.

Re:Good luck with those new map service.

[green1]

Android does not require task managers. That is pure apple FUD. Nor does it result in any performance or battery problems. A "mistake" with no downsides and many upsides is not a mistake.
As for "difficult" users don't care. they just want to be able to listen to their music while using their GPS logging app.

Your one example is a minor feature very few people use. multitasking, voice guided directions, real widget support, are things many people use.
Apple also lagged behind on copy and paste, screen size, and true 4G service. And the list goes on and on for pages...

Always with the jabs

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, because comparing the release of Jelly Bean on a multitude of manufacturer, carrier, and hardware platforms is an entirely reasonable comparison to the release of an iOS locked to specific hardware, from one manufacturer.

Re:Always with the jabs

[MBCook]

According to c|net, as of yesterday Verizon Galaxy Nexus users could download Jelly Bean. Within 24 hours, Apple had 15% penetration across all their devices. I wonder what the percentage is of Galaxy Nexus users?

Are there any very popular Android phones that have received an update in the last year or so that had the update adopted that fast?

I don't know what the Android process is like, but I can say that the iOS process is really slick. At this point, Apple has it down to a science. The update was trivial to install, didn't take too long, and was easily configured on first boot. The 5.1 update process (which was the first delta update, so it was only ~50 MB instead of 700+) was especially fast.

Re:Always with the jabs

[Nemyst]

Apple controls the hardware and software. You're singling out a specific version of the Galaxy Nexus which is renown for having compatibility issues (different antenna if I'm not mistaken) and for being bogged down by Verizon's stupid involvement.

My Nexus S has had Jelly Bean since roughly two weeks after it was announced. OTA updates were available worldwide within the same timeframe. My Transformer received it a month or so later, and that's to account for the docking station support, specific drivers, etc.

You just can't compare the two platforms. If what you want is a closed, smooth environment, go for Apple. If you want an open environment, with both the good and bad that that implies, go Android. It's simple really.

Re:Always with the jabs

[DeathFromSomewhere]

Maybe you should look at the roll out history for ICS on the Nexus S. Most variations lagged >6 months behind the release. This isn't an isolated problem, and it's not one you can avoid by getting a Nexus device.

Re:Always with the jabs

[shutdown -p now]

The Android process is OTA, same as iOS - and, unlike iOS, it has been that way since forever. Your phone will tell you that there is an update via the notification drawer. You tap the notification, it asks if you want to install it. You tap "yes", then go make some coffee, and in about 5 minutes or so your phone is updated.

Re:Always with the jabs

[jamesh]

The Android process is OTA, same as iOS - and, unlike iOS, it has been that way since forever. Your phone will tell you that there is an update via the notification drawer. You tap the notification, it asks if you want to install it. You tap "yes", then go make some coffee, and in about 5 minutes or so your phone is updated.

You're talking about it from a theoretical point of view. My phone doesn't even have Jelly Bean available yet (SGII on Optus in Australia) - I could install it via various methods but that doesn't count as OTA. When I first put ICS on it it the install seemed to go okay, but then nothing worked properly until I did a factory reset. I don't know anyone who didn't have to do a factory reset. A few days ago it told me about another update (4.0.4) but it failed to install on the first attempt (after taking the prescribed 5 minutes to fail). After powering off then on again it re-downloaded the update, then failed to install it again. I had to install it using Keis, which took ages (seemed like 30 minutes... maybe it wasn't that long but it was way more than 5). After the update everything seems to be working though.

All the iPhone's i've ever updated (lots) have worked first time every time.

Re:Always with the jabs

[0123456]

Umm.. that doesn't actually put Android in a particularly good light. Even a Windows upgrade would smoke Android in this metric.

If Windows users had to get their Windows updates from Dell, HP, or the guy at the local computer store who built their PC for them, you might have a point.

Asus shipped the upgrade for my Transformer in a few weeks and the OS upgrade installed faster than a typical Windows update session. It probably rebooted less too.

Re:Always with the jabs

[artor3]

Maybe it has something to do with Android users treating their phones are tools, while iPhone users treat them as spouses.

My phone works. I'm in no more rush to download updates for it than I am to download the latest updates for Windows or Firefox. The only people who seem to get really worked up over software updates are the Applephiles.

Re:Always with the jabs

[shutdown -p now]

You're complaining that the unofficial update system is not working. Yeah, there's leaked firmware on XDA, there's Kies etc, but the moment you go there you're on your own. If you don't, then you get updates same as iPhone does, via OTA - if they ever come. If they don't come, that's a different problem, but that has nothing to do with how well the technical side of the update process is implemented. It's strictly about manufacturers not bothering actually producing updates.

Re:Always with the jabs

[Tough Love]

Are there any very popular Android phones that have received an update in the last year or so that had the update adopted that fast?

Did anybody care enough to measure or report it? Seems to me, some iFans are grasping at straws here. Android OTA updates are slick, fast and easy. Just say "yes" to the update prompt and a short time later the device reboots to an even more deco 3D light show.

It's possible Android users don't update as fast because they aren't as desparate. I don't know, I haven't seen any figures, except for these ones that seem basically irrelevant to me. Maybe if it was a security update or something that actually mattered. I don't know. It must be different being an iFan. Maybe they just need something to focus on to distract from that market share thing, which continues to slip, slip, slip away.

Re:Always with the jabs

[J.Y.Kelly]

In my case it was more to do with the fact that my iPod touch downloaded an update file onto the device which filled nearly 1/3 of the available space on the file system. This is despite me turning off all of the update options in settings. According to all of the forums I checked there's no way to get rid of this file without jail breaking.

I didn't want to update my device but in the end it was the easiest way to get all of my storage space back. The process might be slick, but apple are definitely pushing you to do it.

Re:Always with the jabs

[jxander]

Yes, because comparing the release of Jelly Bean on a multitude of manufacturer, carrier, and hardware platforms is an entirely reasonable comparison to the release of an iOS locked to specific hardware, from one manufacturer.

Quoth the Joker : That's the point

Clearly a walled garden system like Apple will have quicker adoption of new software. What's somewhat surprising -and imo newsworthy- is the magnitude. In less than 2 days, iOS 6 has reached over 1/3 of potential clients. Going back a version, iOS 5 (or better) has a saturation level well over 95% in the year since release. That's incredible, compared to Android OS devices, over 75% of which are running 2.x variants, released in late 2010.

The fact that is happened : Not surprising.
The level to which it happened : Moderately surprising
Data : Useful

Re:Always with the jabs

[Tough Love]

Is it really your position that only some kind of obsessed fanboy would update their software?

No, it's my position that a lot of people accepting an update is not news.

Re:Always with the jabs

[Anonymous Coward]

Not only is this comparing one phone and one manufacturer, but it's ONLY INCLUDING THOSE PHONES THAT CAN RUN iOS6.

This is a false metric.

Android phones run the gamut from simple featurephones that happen to have a static install of something ancient like Honeycomb, to flagship smartphones that manufacturers put their whole weight behind.

If you included every iPhone ever sold, you'd come up with a much smaller number for iOS6, probably in the 1-2% range, like that of Jellybean.

Why not compare (pun unintended) apples with apples here? If you include only the newest flagship devices like Apple are doing, like a Galaxy SIII, I'd bet money you'd find Jellybean adoption rates higher than iOS - Not only are Android owners typically more of a technical bent, we don't have to hand more cash over to Apple for the privilege of upgrading.

No story here, sorry.

Re:Always with the jabs

[jimicus]

The Android process is a bad joke.

Yes, it updates over the air (and always has). BUT phones that are abandoned in terms of updates while they're still in contract are endemic in the Android world - there's dozens of Android handsets but a lot of them will be lucky to see a single major upgrade over their lifetime. The best you can do is:

  - Choose a phone that hasn't already obviously been abandoned from a manufacturer that has a good history of providing updates.
  OR
  - Root the thing, unlock the bootloader where necessary and install Cyanogen. Watch your warranty evaporate as you do this.

Re:Always with the jabs

[shutdown -p now]

Don't be daft. Your phone will tell you if there is an update for your phone.

And if you want that to correspond more or less with when Google says that it has one available, buy a Nexus device. That's what they're there for.

Re:Always with the jabs

[equex]

had no problems with my SG2.it updated itself all the steps from stock 2.3.4 to 4.0.4 with no problems . if you just HAVE to mess with your phone, install cyanogenmod 9. battery life is better and its really damn snappy. just take care to not brick it, SG2 phones has a bad flash chip. ill tell you how to do this if you want!

Re:Always with the jabs

[Anonymous Coward]

You have a silly position.

You are not a mobile developer and the subject doesn't interest you. So what? For a mobile developer for iOS and Android, the adoption rate of each platform is news.

Re:Always with the jabs

[shutdown -p now]

This particular thread was solely about #1, since that was the question. Fragmentation is a different matter.

Re:Always with the jabs

[climb_no_fear]

Android users treating their phones are tools, while iPhone users treat them as spouses..

Does this mean Apple owners update their spouses at the first possible chance ?

Re:Always with the jabs

[Rich0]

Phones abandoned while still under contract? Try phones are abandoned while they're still being sold in stores.

If an update comes out while the phone is still fairly new it probably will get it. The Galaxy S3 is an example - it is STILL running ICS but being a flagship phone it will probably get JB. Well, unless it turns out like the Galaxy S which was the subject of debate for a year or so back when Froyo or whatever came out.

Even the Nexus phones are generally abandoned about 1.5 years after they are FIRST sold (and the Galaxy Nexus is almost a year old now, so expect that to maybe get one more major version update next Spring/Summer).

I love Android, but their updates are REALLY poor. If you buy an iPhone every two years, you're basically guaranteed to always have the latest OS (well, aside from stuff like Siri, which I do think counts, but that is the exception). If you buy an Android Nexus model every two years you might or might not be able to run the latest OS the whole time - if you get your phones the day they come out you probably will get them all, otherwise you'll probably be six months stale come replacement time.

Re:Always with the jabs

[camcorder]

.. and it didn't bring any new feature that could be noticeable.

Re:Always with the jabs

[mkdx]

I have a friend who is psyched about the new iPhone and his plan to replace his previous generation iPhone, he finds it strange that I still find the phone I got about a year ago useable and have no plans for upgrade. Asked him why does he want the iPhone? His answer: because it's faster and newer is more advanced. Only that. No specifics and not a case of any application he uses currently being slow or any feature he needs. I don't understand it.

Re:Always with the jabs

[Anonymous Coward]

No, it's because the Apple users want to get their hands on the awesome new maps app!

Re:Always with the jabs

[tgibbs]

Clearly a walled garden system like Apple will have quicker adoption of new software.

The real problem is that the cell-phone providers each have their own "walled garden" due to differences in hardware and customized apps, which means that any Android upgrade has to be tweaked for the specific hardware and provider. But whereas Apple has chosen the strategy of producing a limited number of hardware models and maintaining compatibility of iOS with older hardware models as long as possible, cell phone manufacturers and providers have chosen to emphasize manufacturing lots of new models. As a result, it's a lot of work and expense for them to keep older models up-to-date, and it doesn't really make them any money, because they make their money by encouraging their customers to upgrade to the latest hardware, and their marketing strategy is to sell to feature-oriented customers rather than value-oriented customers, so continuing to provide upgrades for years simply doesn't pay.

Re:Always with the jabs

[jittles]

Don't forget that iOS 5 wiped all your data, music, etc. I don't know if 6 does. But it's really inconvenient to lose everything.

Re:Always with the jabs

[MBCook]

For the record, I just Googled "Samsung Jelly Bean" and found that story. I wanted to choose a phone I knew was popular so there was a chance at having data. I didn't know it had compatibility issues, I simply recognized the name and figured it might make a decent comparison.

By "across all their devices" I simply meant that people were upgrading. I didn't mean that as a jab against the Android release process (which I know is a disaster due to the carriers, what isn't that carriers touch).

I simply meant "this well known Android phone got an update, in a similar time frame to Apple, how many people updated that phone"? I wasn't trying to compare the full platforms.

Re:Always with the jabs

[jrumney]

SG2 phones has a bad flash chip.

It's not the Flash chip itself, but a problem in the kernels for some official Samsung builds of 4.0.4. Flashing via the officially sanctioned Samsung methods works, but as soon as you try using custom ROMs with their own flashing methods, there is a high likelyhood of triggering the bug and ending up with a brick that requires a reflashing of the bootloader via JTAG to recover.

Re:Always with the jabs

[jrumney]

Don't forget that iOS 5 wiped all your data, music, etc. I don't know if 6 does.

iOS6 only wipes your Google applications, and your iTunes account details. Everything else seems to be intact.

Re:Always with the jabs

[jrumney]

If you buy an iPhone every two years, you're basically guaranteed to always have the latest OS

The iPhone 3GS was still being manufactured until just over a week ago, so there should still be some in stores. If you buy one now, what do you think the chances are of seeing another update again ever?

aside from stuff like Siri, which I do think counts, but that is the exception

I don't think its the exception, but the new business model for Apple. Look at all the "new" maps features in iOS6 which are exclusive to the latest, or one generation earlier iDevices.

Re:Always with the jabs

[loufoque]

Most Android devices do not get OTA updates.

Re:Always with the jabs

[Rich0]

Fair points - my iOS update data is out of date for sure. They updated the 3G about 5 months after it was discontinued, and that was it (though that was 2.3 years after introduction). The Nexus S got its most recent update about six months after it was discontinued - I'm skeptical that it will get another, but it might. Granted, it was also on the market for a lot less time than most iPhones are.

Seems that iOS and the nexus phones are converging on update support. Now if only the rest of the Android models would play ball...

Re:Always with the jabs

[jittles]

Well someone later posted that their wife went over their data cap after iOS6 said she was connected to wifi and she had to reinstall all her apps. So maybe she wiped? But that gives me the impression they don't know how to migrate an OS without restoring from backup? Did they lose the engineer that coded it up for ios 2, 3 and 4?

Re:Always with the jabs

[BasilBrush]

Apple controls the hardware and software.

Yes. That's one of the reason they are better products.

You're singling out a specific version of the Galaxy Nexus which is renown for having compatibility issues (different antenna if I'm not mistaken) and for being bogged down by Verizon's stupid involvement.

Funnily enough, when the issue of lack of Android OS updates has come up on Slashdot, there's always a few people who say "Buy a Nexus and that's not a problem." And now you are saying it IS a problem for at least one of the Nexus devices.

This is one of the problems with Android. It's a bit of a lottery what your experience will be depending on which model you come out of the phone store with. And with new models coming out every week, it's beyond the average person to keep up with the pros and cons of each model.

Re:Always with the jabs

[BasilBrush]

If you don't, then you get updates same as iPhone does, via OTA - if they ever come.

Surely that's why the "theoretical" word came up. Because for most people the updates for Android never come.

That's the major reason why the adoption rate is pathetic compared with iOS.

Re:Always with the jabs

[BasilBrush]

My phone works. I'm in no more rush to download updates for it than I am to download the latest updates for Windows or Firefox. The only people who seem to get really worked up over software updates are the Applephiles.

Be honest. Your Android phone has never actually notified you that there's a new version of the OS, has it?

Re:Always with the jabs

[BasilBrush]

There's a glut of Application updates right now, because developers have updated their software to take advantage of iOS6 and the bigger screen of the iPhone. That'll be why. She won't have been redownloading the same apps, but new versions of the apps.

Re:Always with the jabs

[Bogtha]

The Android process is OTA, same as iOS - and, unlike iOS, it has been that way since forever.

That's a best case scenario. My most recent Android phone (Sony Xperia Pro) started out with OTA updates, then regressed so that you could only upgrade with dedicated PC-only software. They've now released a Mac version, but it's still not OTA. It's also taking them months to roll out last year's version of Android - the latest version available is 2.3, released in 2010, and they are struggling to release 4.0, released in 2011.

Re:Always with the jabs

[BasilBrush]

If Windows users had to get their Windows updates from Dell, HP, or the guy at the local computer store who built their PC for them, you might have a point.

So Microsoft got their business model right and Google got it wrong.

Re:Always with the jabs

[ceoyoyo]

Unfortunately, particularly where updates are concerned, Android doesn't seem very open. You yourself cite "Verizon's stupid involvement" as an excuse.

iOS is closed, but it's maintained by a company that has a vested interest in having it work well. Android itself is (mostly) open, but most of the actual implementations you can buy are considerably less so, and are maintained by companies that have demonstrated they couldn't care less about how well it works.

Re:Always with the jabs

[The Good Reverend]

The 3GS was introduced in June of 2009 (more than three years ago), and gets the latest OS (though, admittedly, not all the features). Apple has a very, very good history of supporting devices for an extended time. By the time there's a new OS, the 3GS was be 4 years old - that's an absurd length of time to expect to be compatible with a new OS (and honestly, we don't know that it won't be).

Re:Always with the jabs

[Bogtha]

The iPhone 3GS was still being manufactured until just over a week ago, so there should still be some in stores. If you buy one now, what do you think the chances are of seeing another update again ever?

Very likely. Apple will probably drop support for the 3GS with iOS 7, which will probably be released this time next year. But until then, there are likely to be multiple updates - Apple don't typically jump from version n.0 to version n+1.0.

I don't think its the exception, but the new business model for Apple. Look at all the "new" maps features in iOS6 which are exclusive to the latest, or one generation earlier iDevices.

Why the scare quotes around "new"? The features that require recent hardware - turn-by-turn and flyover - are new.

Re:Always with the jabs

[makomk]

Unless I'm missing something, that comment's a reply to someone asking whether the update process for Android phones which had official updates to the latest version was as smooth as Apple's update process. To which the answer is indeed yes, and it's been that way since back when Apple's updates were still multi-hundred-megabyte monstrosities that required a computer and a very reliable Internet connection (since they apparently couldn't resume downloads).

Re:Always with the jabs

[martyros]

there's dozens of Android handsets but a lot of them will be lucky to see a single major upgrade over their lifetime.

Although to be fair, the updates Apple sends are always targeted towards their current hardware, and they don't seem to care if they slow older hardware down. My iPhone 3G was snappy when I first bought it, but in update after update, things just keep getting slower. Most of the core functionality still *works*, but you just have to wait for several minutes if you're switching from one "big" application to another. I'm not sure that's really that much better than just being abandoned.

Re:Always with the jabs

[jfengel]

Android OTA updates are slick, fast and easy.

When they happen at all. It's up to each manufacturer and model to decide what gets an update and what doesn't.

It's a point in Android's favor that my Droid 2 still works well enough (-ish) that I haven't discarded it. But it continues to run Gingerbread, and will until I run a process which is neither slick, fast, nor easy.

Re:Always with the jabs

[jittles]

That could be. I know there have been a ton of updates lately, but I would assume that this person would know the difference between an app update and a reinstall. I just know that the iOS 5 install left a bitter taste in my mouth. At least for my iPod. I had reformatted the machine that I used to upload my music and playlists to it and I was rather irritated that there was no way of saving the playlists themselves, or syncing to another machine without jailbreaking first. Plus its just a hassle to set everything up all over again. Oh well, I am not planning on installing iOS6 for some time anyway, unless I have to for work.

Re:Always with the jabs

[zippthorne]

I had the opposite problem... Since I didn't have 2G free on my device, I couldn't download the update over wireless and had to go through iTunes instead. So, the solution to your problem (for the next update) seems to be to make sure that all your space is already allocated to apps, songs, and pictures before the rollout, so it can't stage the update image on the device.

Re:Always with the jabs

[Tough Love]

...my Droid 2 still works well enough (-ish) that I haven't discarded it. But it continues to run Gingerbread, and will until I run a process which is neither slick, fast, nor easy.

Eh, what's this about then?

Re:Always with the jabs

[Tough Love]

Most Android devices do not get OTA updates.

Care to substantiate that?

Re:Always with the jabs

[jfengel]

That's an update to Gingerbread. There are still some updates to Gingerbread; it's up to 2.3.7. But it's not the 4.0 (ICS) or 4.1 (Jellybean) line.

Re:Always with the jabs

[jittles]

He responded to me and let me know that his wife needed more space, and that she deleted apps and that is why she was reinstalling. My guess is she downloaded the upgrade to the device and did not have the space.

Re:Always with the jabs

[Nemyst]

Again, the problem isn't with Android itself. The problem is drivers. Apple controls the hardware, therefore they also have direct and unfettered access to the drivers for all the hardware they have ever made. They can design iOS specifically around the hardware they have made, they can plan out compatibility ahead of time with future hardware revisions.

Google's mostly working by itself, releasing device-agnostic Android builds and then working with a manufacturer to provide reference device implementations (the Nexus series). Google doesn't make the phones, so there's still a level of disconnect, whereby they don't necessarily know ahead of time what kind of hardware they will put in, and they may not have access to the drivers as early as Apple does.

I'll also point out that I wasn't making excuses, I was stating the reason. Telcos have been a plague for every single phone released since the dawn of time with the conspicuous exception of Apple's iPhones. They have had some form of perfect storm that has let them forego the usual carrier-manufacturer relationship which shafts customers. The only other manufacturer I know of which used to do this was Nokia, and that caused them to be mostly absent from the US market for the longest time. I can't tell you why Apple specifically has had this kind of ability. I sure wish Google would work towards gaining it, too, so that telcos could go back to being carriers instead of also meddling in software and hardware, but I don't know whether Google is interested or even can do it at this point in time.

Which goes back to my original point: yes, Apple's software updates, heck most of Apple's environment, is very sleek and easy to use. To many, that's all that counts, and I say good for you. Me, I'm ready to cope with rougher edges if it means I get a more open ecosystem. It's personal choice, and overall you'll have a hard time finding that one is objectively better than the other: they both have strengths and weaknesses. My post wasn't trying to provide excuses for Google, I was attempting to explain the reason we are in the situation we see.

Re:Always with the jabs

[jrumney]

As a counterpoint, the iPad was introduced in May of 2010 (less than two and a half years ago), was still the latest model up until 18 months ago, and does not get iOS6. So I don't think Apple has a very good history of supporting devices for an extended time, on the contrary, they stop supporting them on the next major version after they are no longer on sale.

Re:Always with the jabs

[jrumney]

Why the scare quotes around "new"? The features that require recent hardware - turn-by-turn and flyover - are new.

Because those "new" features do not require recent hardware in other apps like Google Earth, and Garmin Navigon.

Re:Always with the jabs

[The Good Reverend]

How many (or what percentage) of 2 1/2 year-old Android devices are getting (or can run, or support) Jelly Bean? Or even ICS?

Re:Always with the jabs

[shutdown -p now]

I think you're confused your OSes - the phone usually slows down with iOS update, unless it's the latest model.

Re:Always with the jabs

[Bogtha]

That doesn't mean they aren't new features.

Re:Always with the jabs

[Tough Love]

So they're getting update in contrast to the FUD the trolls are posting. My G2 got a string of Gingerbread updates too and it works just fine. Runs all the apps I care to install. Runs the Humble Bundle games. I'm feeling no pressure to upgrade, in fact there isn't anything to upgrade too because there's just no other keyboard out there that touches the G2.

If I want ICS on my G2 I can install the XDA rom (try that Apple fans) but I just don't feel a compelling need. My updated Gingerbread works great.

Re:Always with the jabs

[loufoque]

The reason why most devices are stuck at 2.2 or 2.3 is that the manufacturer decided not to support newer Android versions on these devices.
The only option people have is to manually install community images, which requires rooting the phone and is tedious.

Re:Always with the jabs

[ceoyoyo]

"Again, the problem isn't with Android itself."

It doesn't matter. You can write the greatest software in the world, but if I can only run it on crappy hardware, or only get it bundled with other crappy software from a carrier, it's a problem.

The reason Android is the way it is is that Google hasn't been aggressive enough in controlling licensing of it. The majority of Android installs aren't open in any meaningful sense.

Re:Always with the jabs

[gmyuriy]

The Android process is OTA, same as iOS - and, unlike iOS, it has been that way since forever. Your phone will tell you that there is an update via the notification drawer. You tap the notification, it asks if you want to install it. You tap "yes", then go make some coffee, and in about 5 minutes or so your phone is updated.

I thought you were going to say "...and your phone is dead..." there for a moment...

Re:Always with the jabs

[balbus000]

Even the Nexus phones are generally abandoned about 1.5 years after they are FIRST sold

I have a Nexus S that was released December, 2010 running Jelly Bean through the official OTA updates. The Nexus One came out January, 2010 and supports up to Gingerbread 2.3.6 which was released September 2011. That's 1 year 9 months, and it didn't get Ice Cream Sandwich (October 2011).

So you have one Nexus phone was kept current for 1.75 years, and two Nexus phones that are still current (1.75 years for the Nexus S and 10 months for the Galaxy Nexus so far). And you want to make the generalization that all Nexus phones get abandoned after 1.5 years?

Re:Always with the jabs

[balbus000]

Nope, the Nexus S is still current. I have one with Jelly Bean through the official updates.

Re:Always with the jabs

[Rich0]

Yes. First, I was generally rounding - 1.5, 1.75, whatever.

You also forgot the ADP. That one was abandoned about a year after it came out.

I think phones should receive updates for two years from the day that they're LAST sold, so that means the Galaxy Nexus is at 0 days and counting, the Nexus S is at about 9 months, and the Nexus One got its last update about 9 months after it sold, but that was a minor release (Gingerbread is older than Sept 2011 I believe). So, haggling over a few months is missing the point.

Re:Always with the jabs

[Rich0]

I didn't say that it wasn't. I said that it got its last update about six months after it was discontinued, and it may or may not get another. It is current, but that only means that it was supported for about 1.5 years after introduction.

Re:Always with the jabs

[Rich0]

Yeah, I commented elsewhere that my Apple data was apparently a bit dated (don't really follow them that closely). Their earlier models had much longer upgrade support than their newer ones. So, Android and Apple are converging, but Android still has a way to go, and it really is even a competition only for the Nexus models.

1-1.5 years on a device you replace every two years sounds nice, unless you don't buy your phone the day it comes out. Most people end up buying phones that already have considerable mileage. For example, I'd really prefer to upgrade now, but I'm delaying to get a new Nexus, since the Galaxy Nexus already has quite a bit of time on the odometer.

Re:Always with the jabs

[niftymitch]

.....

I don't know what the Android process is like, but I can say that the iOS process is really slick. At this point, Apple has it down to a science. The update was trivial to install, didn't take too long, and was easily configured on first boot. The 5.1 update process (which was the first delta update, so it was only ~50 MB instead of 700+) was especially fast.

And the download pre-cached by the time I was prompted to update.
I did not see a no thank you button. Yes I could have dismissed it
but there was a single clickable option. Then there was a list
of application updates that continues.

They did make it easy... by removing choice and options.
Other than maps -- no complaints.

Comparing 2 different things...

[Darkness404]

That's a pretty rapid pace, eclipsing Android Jelly Bean's 2-month adoption levels of 1.2% easily

Of course Jelly Bean's adoption level is very low because what, 3-4 devices support Jelly Bean officially? And those 3-4 devices are a small percentage of all Android devices. Heck, even the "flagship" Android phone the Galaxy S III won't be getting Jelly Bean until the end of September or later. While all iOS devices are Apple phones/tablets/media players and the iOS 6 update is available for all of them made within the past couple of years.

Re:Comparing 2 different things...

[girlintraining]

While all iOS devices are Apple phones/tablets/media players and the iOS 6 update is available for all of them made within the past couple of years.

Apple has auto-update enabled and often forced on their products and their target audience is not the technically adept. The average person doesn't go into options or configuration menus often, if ever. A lot of techies disable auto-update for a number of reasons, including hacking their phones so that leaving auto-update enabled could cause accidental bricking. As well, Apple's product line is, as you mentioned, rather exclusive: iOS only runs on one company's hardware. Android runs on dozens.

Anyway, let's be honest about one other issue: vendor support. Android may run on more devices, have more features, and be considerably more complex and open than iOS, but when it comes to the phone manufacturer standing behind their product, they give a resounding "Fuck you" to the customer. Apple products are still supported and actively maintained for several years after launch. Samsung, HPC, etc., might make one, maybe two updates for your phone. Ever. Six months from now, they'll be releasing another $600 retail phone to much fanfare, and your phone, which they promised upgrades for years, is forgotten.

Which is probably why even if tomorrow Google released a version of Android which gave the user orgasms with the push of a button, they still wouldn't gain much market share... in six months, there'd be "Orgasm with cigarette and cheesecake" released and Orgasm 1.0 would develop some horrible security flaw that would render you sterile and break out in boils, and the vendor would tell you they plan a fix... eventually... but hey, in the mean time, have you checked our our commercials for the next version?

Re:Comparing 2 different things...

[sootman]

> Of course adoption is sky high; it's 1 phone

3 old and one new phone, actually; and a few models of iPod and 2 models of iPad, plus several carriers and several cellular technologies.

> and when iDrones see an update notification they
> automatically do it.

That's the whole point. They don't update because they're "iDrones", they update because it fucking works.

> And lets not forget that most updates to iTunes force
> you to update the iPhone software to work correctly.

Bullshit. Every so often, you're forced to update iTunes to work with the newest OS, but this week's iTunes still works with my five-year-old original iPhone on iOS 3.x. You might need to update to the newest minor version in some cases (I'm not sure about that, but I'll go ahead and concede that to make my next point) but why not? THIS WHOLE SHIT IS SUPPOSED TO WORK.

You're missing the forest for the trees. The fact that it's newsworthy that one company has made software updates work pretty smoothly in 2012 is pretty fucking sad.

Partly this is Android being jerked around by the carriers, but it's also a matter of a bunch of OEMs who don't give a shit about a device once it's been sold, compared to the one company that actually wants you to be a happy customer and voluntarily return to buy more, and not just say "Well my old phone from X sucks, so I'll get a new one, but I'll stick with X, because all the rest are probably just as bad and at least I'm familiar with this one."

Re:Comparing 2 different things...

[puto]

i work for ATT which arguably has the largest number of Idevices, and as an escalation manager, I have to handle problems from both platforms. IOS6 has caused me quite a bit of headaches since its release, since the majority of Apple users are non technical users and do not live by the mantra if it aint broke, dont fix it. So they update from apple and it suddenly is the carriers problem.... when in reality any software, hardware update should be shunned for at least six months. As far as vendor support, when something goes wrong with an iphone that is an inherent problem with ios, the apple geniuses blame it on the carrier. Apple always gives a resounding fuck you to the carrier because they do not like to admit they are wrong. So in my daily workload I have to explain the "geniuses" are not geniuses". I run jellybean on a 2 year old Motorola.... Iphone users will update to whatever, not realizing that something is a beta needs to be fully baked. I took 40 escalations today over I)S 6...

Re:Comparing 2 different things...

[Nemyst]

I'd be agreeing with you if you hadn't put that last paragraph. Saying that Android won't gain much market share is not only foolish, it's entirely false. By now Android's taken a significant share of the market and I don't see that shrinking anytime soon. If Google can step their game up and fix some the glaring issues such as inconsistent updates from manufacturers, they'll be well on their way to take the dominant position.

Re:Comparing 2 different things...

[Anonymous Coward]

Please, mod parent up...

I am an Apple user too, so you may say I'm biased. I don't give a damn. Apple products work for me.

People talk about "Apple's walled garden", but look at Android's garden! It has no walls, but it has no flowers either! It's run by OEM handset makers and phone companies, which are much greedier than Apple.

Google doesn't give a damn, because all that matters to them is advertising. So, they update the system but don't get to decide who can update. And recent versions of Android need more powerful hardware -- or so they want us to think.

So, you got a "new" Galaxy S2 last year and you can't get Jelly Bean yet -- maybe in november.

Re:Comparing 2 different things...

[PmanAce]

I'm curious, what do his clients want or need since you seem to know the answer? Maybe you forgot to provide the onus of explanation in your negating statement?

Re:Comparing 2 different things...

[puto]

Really? As an old network engineer the mantra was if there was not something in a service pack, update, that you specifically needed, there was no valid reason to update the os, software package that was working fine, unless you needed the untested specific bell and whistle. Especially if you are using your computer/device as an integral part of making your living or running a business. Updates should be vetted for a period of time to make sure there are no anomalies which could cause issues. Talk to me when you have a client who updated their software on their phone and suddenly all their contacts went to shit, and they did not have the sense to back up to the Icloud or Itunes, and a senior Vice President at Gulf Strean is screaming at you because of his stupidity. It is not a question of what a client wants, it is a question of proper procedure. You need to find yourself a new job if you think IT is about the latest and greatest.

Re:Comparing 2 different things...

[Doctor_Jest]

What we get from this is not that "one company has made software updates work pretty smoothly" (they've had HUGE problems in the past with OS X, and I don't fault them for it, because it's just how things go). What we get is that Apple's a pretty good mobile phone company. What we get from the OEMs and other ecosystems that use Android is that diversity of hardware and software reminds us more of Microsoft Windows than anything else... but more importantly, we see that the Android ecosystem has a bunch of assholes at the top who control the hardware. (Not just one asshole.) :-)

That's the whole point. They don't update because they're "iDrones", they update because it fucking works

If it just works, why upgrade? They upgrade because they are fans of Apple and they want the new features, not simply because it "works." Some people love that ecosystem. Some people feel that choice is more important that "smooth updates". YMMV. A feature has been deemed compelling by the iPhone fans and they have responded with upgrading. "It just works" is only a side effect of controlling both sides of the equation (phone/OS). The vibe I get from a great many Apple users reminds me of status and one-upping the next person. Is the iPhone 4S a hunk of crap now that the new iPhone is out? Certainly not, but some people (regardless of ecosystem) want the "latest and greatest" of everything. It just seems that a majority of those who are attracted to Apple products are not tinkerers and hobbyists (among other things), but people who view computers and phones as an appliance. I was not a typical Apple customer. I enjoyed tinkering with OS X. I skinned it early on with hacks, I fiddled with all sorts of things under the hood. I returned to Linux to continue to do that... :)

compared to the one company that actually wants you to be a happy customer and voluntarily return to buy more

I disagree. To me, Apple has not been concerned about happy customers. They are concerned with their brand recognition and reputation. They only want dependency, just like every other company. The difference between Apple and say, Microsoft, is that Apple is willing to charge into new markets, leaving old ones behind. With an enigmatic and charismatic leader like Jobs, they were able to pull that off successfully (upon his return to Apple). I don't know how well that will work without "His Steveness". They didn't call it a reality distortion field for nothing... I am not demonizing Apple or lauding Android. I like what I like. It just so happens that I used to like Apple's OS X, but I have never liked their phone. My Mac Mini is on its way to being a Linux box. I have been a Linux user off and on since college. What I have learned is that I can work better in Linux than I can any other OS. That is just me, though, and it is my personal opinion. YMMV. No warranties expressed or implied. Operators are standing by.

Re:Comparing 2 different things...

[Anubis IV]

Of course Jelly Bean's adoption level is very low because what, 3-4 devices support Jelly Bean officially? And those 3-4 devices are a small percentage of all Android devices. Heck, even the "flagship" Android phone the Galaxy S III won't be getting Jelly Bean until the end of September or later. While all iOS devices are Apple phones/tablets/media players and the iOS 6 update is available for all of them made within the past couple of years.

What about Ice Cream Sandwich then? iOS6 adoption is well past it as well, and it's been out for around a year and has much wider support, including on the very flagship device that you cited.

Look, the fact is, this is an apples and oranges comparison of sorts. Pretty much any iOS devcie from the last three years can be updated (though not all, notably the first iPad), so the number of eligible devices makes up a very large percentage of the pool, meaning that adoption rates should be fast. In contrast, the number of devices eligible to upgrade to ICS or JB makes up a smaller percentage of the Android pool of devices, given that many Android devices only receive a .x update or two (i.e. Android's adoption rates are, I would posit, primarily driven by sales of new devices, not upgrades). As such, it's only natural that the rate at which new versions of Android will be adopted will be lower, and that will continue to be the case for as long as upgrades are handled in the way that they are. That's not Google's fault, nor is it necessarily the manufacturer's fault either, so they should not be held to blame.

That said, this is a strong argument for why the Android folks need to fix the relationship between Google, the manufacturers, and the carriers so that this sort of thing doesn't keep happening. Just because it may not be fair to blame Google or the manufacturers does not mean that it's unfair to blame the carriers or the overall structure of the system. The entire system is designed to provide no incentive to the stakeholders involved for offering upgrades, makes offering upgrades a painful process (e.g. carrier interference), and puts the power for who gets to make the decision in the hands of people who have competing interests at play (e.g. carriers want you to buy a new device so they can lock you into a fresh contract).

Actually, maybe they just need to remove carriers from the equation, since that's really the only variable that's different between Apple and Android when it comes to this topic. After that, it becomes an apples-to-apples comparison between Apple and the various Android manufacturers, allowing us to finally compare adoption rates or even the availability of OS versions without interference from third-parties.

Re:Comparing 2 different things...

[Anonymous Coward]

Customer 5 years, called ATT for the first time because I lost my most used program, google maps. ATT was no help and I'm stuck in my contract for 8 more months

Re:Comparing 2 different things...

[TheEffigy]

I didn't even use iTunes myself - just click update on my phone and it did it over WIFI.

Re:Comparing 2 different things...

[immaterial]

Apple has auto-update enabled and often forced on their products and their target audience is not the technically adept.

False. No iOS products even have an "auto-update" ability. OS X has the option, but it is off by default.

Re:Comparing 2 different things...

[sl149q]

And did we mention that most people used the over the air direct from the cloud update method.

Which in fact is one of the reasons that people upgrade so fast. Its just so fscking easy. Settings / General / Software Update, click yes. Half hour later and your iDevice is running the new OS.

And what three year old Android anything gets the same update as the current models (bad comparison, the current android models don't always have the current software either...) :-)

Re:Comparing 2 different things...

[sl149q]

What part of running a commercial network has any bearing on end users updating consumer products?

Consumers want the current stuff because that is what consumers want. Deliver it and you make money. Fail to deliver it and you end up circling the bowl.

Re:Comparing 2 different things...

[sl149q]

So find us one Android device or line of devices that has been updated and tell us what the upgrade takeup rate was. That would presumably be a valid comparison.

Numbers please...

Re:Comparing 2 different things...

[Cimexus]

"who view phones and computers as appliances"

I view my phone as an appliance, yes. Not my computers though. That's the main reason I DO want a simple, appliance-like phone ... I have computers for tinkering around with and hacking and customising etc. But my phone is an important tool and I can't afford it to randomly get all glitchy or crashy when I'm trying to do something important with it. I want it to be a reliable, stable, platform for making calls, checking my email and browsing the web when I'm out and about (plus navigation and games etc.) I am willing to give away a bit of flexibility in order to get that stability and ease of use (though mind you, the default way iOS does things is usually similar to what I would have wanted anyway, and apps allow you to do almost anything).

It unclutters my life (and my head!) - when I'm tearing my hair out about some weird software bug on my PC or trying to get some obscure driver working on my Linux box etc, it's nice to have at least one device I can fall back on knowing it will 'just work' with zero fiddling around.

Nothing against those that DO like to tinker with their phones - more power to them. But I haven't got the time in the day to do that with my phone in addition to all the other hardware I play around with. So yes, my phone is an appliance, much like my stereo system or my microwave.

Re:Comparing 2 different things...

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

So they update from apple and it suddenly is the carriers problem....

Uh.. yeah, let's talk about this for a sec. The iOS6 update caused my wife's phone to indicate that it was on wi-fi when it was not. She went to re-download her apps and, before long, she got a text from AT&T saying her data for the month was nearly used up and that they were going to add a $15 charge to the bill if she kept going.

So is this Apple's fault? Absolutely. So that means that AT&T is absolved of any responsibility, right? Nope. You see, I asked AT&T to put a limit on her data. I mean, face it, there's no real way to know when that phone is using cellular or wifi data. (Especially when the icon is on.... I swear Apple didn't test this update before they sent it out.) At least if the phone did malfunction or if she just went dippy and went on a data spree, I could keep the damage minimal and not even have to phone AT&T about it. I was told "Nope, we can't do that". I pointed out that when I had an iPad on their data plan, once it hit the limit it would just stop sending data and it would wait until I okayed an extra charge. She just told me no. There's no reason why a smartphone couldn't be treated the same way, this is obviously a policy decision and not for some technical reason. They couldn't even tell me how much data she had used, said that they'd know in a day or two... but for some reason, with my iPad, they can. Huh.

Apple definitely shares in some of the responsibility with the iOS problems, it really does feel like they didn't test this one nearly as well as any of their other updates. But don't you DARE pretend as though Apple or defective customers are the sole source of your problems. AT&T has the worst data plans available and their policies are intended only to help their bottom line and are NOT there, in any way, to help their customers. Seriously, it's like they hope I screw up every so often so they can tack on twenty dollars to my bill. My phone went rogue and as a 'courtesy' they decided to hold on a charge. A courtesy. They didn't want to listen to me for details about the problem. (You should be happy, I wanted to give them a heads up so you could do something about all the escalations you've gotten today. The numpty on the phone and the driftwood on the other end of the email conversation didn't care or even want to talk about it.) They didn't even want to set up the plan so that if another 'rogue phone' glitch happened again that it wouldn't cause harm for either myself or for AT&T.

Apple may say 'fuck you' to you, but how many times do you think people have shouted at them because of AT&T?

I took 40 escalations today over I)S 6...

When I first emailed about my wife's phone the response I got was: "If you're worried about using up data, just turn off ceullar data on your phone!" A few months ago when I emailed to find out what speed my unlimited plan will be throttled down to past the 3 gig mark, the guy told me to run the phone out of data then use SpeedTest to find out. You'll pardon me for not believing that all 40 of your escalations had anything at all to do with Apple shitty iOS release.

Re:Comparing 2 different things...

[Anonymous Coward]

Bingo.

Google gives off that they don't give a flying fsck about their users. Especially with how easy it is for someone to catch malware on the Marketplace. Reviews from the Play Store? Easy to fake. Of course, when you see an app ask for a ton of permissions, it will set off alarms, but how many people actually read that, other than /. readers?

Either Google needs to split their store up and have a tier where apps are actively vetted similar to Apple with a brutal hand when it comes to malware, or they partner with Amazon to have their store be the default, with the ability to allow people to Google after a warning, perhaps a pointer to look at the app permissions.

However, this doesn't seem to be done, so the clueless users get stung by malware and scream to the world.

iOS's security would be pretty pathetic without Apple's active work in keeping the garbage out of their playground. It is better in iOS 6 with the BlackBerry like asking when an app requests info or permissions, but the whole security model relies on the jail. Android can be happily rooted, and still be secure.

Of course, the fact that most Android phones are bootloader locked so upgrading or modifying OS versions is tough to pointless. Good luck finding a non-sucking phone unless you are on Verizon.

Re:Comparing 2 different things...

[Cimexus]

What did the issues that got escalated to you mostly concern? Was there a trend? Or was it all kinds of random stuff.

Not challenging you here or anything, I'm just curious since I can't think of anything for me personally that's ever gone wrong with an iOS update (there's not much that really CAN go wrong, is there, other than perhaps some apps behaving weird afterwards, and usually that's because you haven't updated your apps in so long that there was a 'fixed iOS6-specific bugs' update that you missed)

Re:Comparing 2 different things...

[Cimexus]

Standalone Google Maps app is currently in review and should be released shortly. So no need to panic just yet :)

Re:Comparing 2 different things...

[mark-t]

I'm pretty sure that iTunes allows you to do full restores, as long as you made a backup of your device before upgrading.

Re:Comparing 2 different things...

[thegarbz]

You're missing the forest for the trees. The fact that it's newsworthy that one company has made software updates work pretty smoothly in 2012 is pretty fucking sad.

Actually it seems you're just running around with your eyes closed. Nexus users simply get a notification when an update is available and the update works in 2 clicks, one to download and one to reboot the phone after the download is finished.

The real problem is motivation. I honestly see difference between Jellybean and Gingerbread, but I don't see a benefit. All apps I have now worked just fine back with Gingerbread. The interface may be a tiny bit smoother, but other than that there's no real difference, no killer feature and critically no lack of features on the older systems.

The only benefit I can see to updating the phone is to stop the OTA updater from bringing up notifications that there's an update waiting.

Apple, say what you want about the software and the most recent fuckup is damn good at marketing it's updates. People actually WANT to install iOS6 and that is your key difference right there. I don't have an iPhone yet I know what features iOS6 brings to the table, yet on Jellybean the only thing I can honestly say is different is that there's a button to close all idle notifications, that's the only "feature" I can visibly see since I upgraded, and I'm wondering why I even bothered.

Re:Comparing 2 different things...

[shutdown -p now]

His clients are your average iPhone users. They are certainly not going to wait for software updates for six months. Apple told them that there's plenty of stuff there that's new and shiny - and it is - and they damn well want it now. And they have full right to expect him to deliver that, not tell them about how they should wait because it's a "beta" (which it ain't).

He seems to be confusing an enterprise corporate environment, where changes are carefully vetted by admins, with a personal consumer device. That's a big mistake, and certainly not the one a person who is directly interacting with the users should be making.

Re:Comparing 2 different things...

[immaterial]

Giggle? You mean laugh-out-fucking-loud. You just linked to a year-and-a-half-old rumor, since proven false, about automatic app updates (we're talking about OS updates here).

Re:Comparing 2 different things...

[girlintraining]

Saying that Android won't gain much market share is not only foolish, it's entirely false.

The latest numbers disagree with your assessment: Apple is gaining faster than Android is. And let's not forget profit per unit, where Apple is kicking the crap out of Android. But what about growth of the market itself? Well, that isn't looking too hot either. In fact, the latest numbers suggest that Android's biggest problem isn't Apple at all, but Microsoft.

If Google can step their game up and fix some the glaring issues such as inconsistent updates from manufacturers, they'll be well on their way to take the dominant position.

They obtained the dominant position some time ago, in terms of per unit sales. It's highly unlikely they'll ever achieve parity with per unit profit compared to other offerings. It's arguable that the only thing keeping Android alive is the Google brand identity; The support is shit and the platform is fragmenting. By most business metrics, the Android platform's golden age is drawing to an end. Google hasn't "stepped up their game" at any point, and they can't... because the entire Android model is a free for all. They have no control over what apps get loaded, they can't possibly test all possible combinations of hardware and software, and in fact most vendors have to work rather closely with Google to get a shipping product. Oh, and it's not cheap maintaining 20 different hardware platforms for the vendor... which is why so few stand behind their product for any length of time.

No, I don't think they're on their way to a dominant position: I think they're on their way to the shit can if they can't sort out some very real structural (read: management) problems in the overall Android platform.

Re:Comparing 2 different things...

[girlintraining]

You need to find yourself a new job if you think IT is about the latest and greatest.

Well, you're right, it isn't. In the business world, it's all about improving the business process, either by quality control, efficiency, cost, etc. Generally, the latest and greatest also has the most to offer in those areas; If you're buying into it now. If you already have an infrastructure built up, then you have to weigh the costs and benefits. It's sorta like how we're constantly finding new metal alloys and concrete mixtures which make buildings, bridges, and roads stronger, last longer, etc. We don't tear down everything and start over with each incremental advance, but we do build new stuff with those advances.

So in a sense, IT is about the latest and greatest... it's just that is only part of the picture, not the whole.

Re:Comparing 2 different things...

[Anubis IV]

And why would I spend my time doing that? Yes, it would be a valid comparison. But there are two problems in what you've suggested:

1) I doubt those numbers exist in quantities significant enough to demonstrate anything statistically, unless some carriers or manufacturers have broken them out somewhere (unlikely).

2) I have no interest in finding those numbers, other than out of mild curiosity. I certainly have nothing to prove.

You seem to be under the mistaken impression that I am an Android apologist. Quite the contrary: I'm a staunch Apple supporter (I'd call myself a fanboy, in fact), and if you read my last post you'll see that it reads as an implicit condemnation for the Android ecosystem, which I believe has some major issues when it comes to this topic. Nonetheless, as a nerd, I can appreciate when an invalid comparison takes place, and that's what's been happening all throughout this story. I merely pointed that out in the interest of nerdery, not because I wanted to justify Android's numbers in some way (else, why would I have pointed out ICS' abysmal adoption rate right at the start?).

Re:Comparing 2 different things...

[tlhIngan]

Apple has auto-update enabled and often forced on their products and their target audience is not the technically adept. The average person doesn't go into options or configuration menus often, if ever. A lot of techies disable auto-update for a number of reasons, including hacking their phones so that leaving auto-update enabled could cause accidental bricking.

iOS devices have never automatically updated. The worst is you get notified that there's an update available, but you have to acknowledge that yes, you want the update. Upon which it then downloads and installs the update.

No auto-downloads. No auto-installs. You don't have to disable a thing because it won't do it automatically

If you use iTunes, iTunes will pop up a message saying an update is available, which you can choose to ignore (and optionally, never remind you again).

At least, I have yet to see any of my iDevices mysteriously auto-update on me. I've been warned, but I've got devices that are now "obsolete" (iPhone and iPhone 3G) that aren't even on the latest iOS available for them.

Heck, I've not gotten any notification that iOS 6 is available at all on any iDevice. not that I plan on upgrading until 6.0.1 and jailbreak.

I have however found out how to try to force Android to download an update by clearing the Android Services Framework data and hitting Check for Update whenever a new OS update comes out. I suppose Google staggers the release of the OS updates out to prevent the internet from dying the moment it releases a new OS version...

OTOH, while Jelly Bean only has 1-2% penetration, ICS finally approached 25% of all Androids out there.

Re:Comparing 2 different things...

[Anubis IV]

Clarification on point 1: I meant to say that I doubt that any of the publicly available numbers are of significant enough quantity, NOT that those numbers don't exist somewhere. I.e. If there's some developer out there doing a breakdown of Android adoption by device, it won't be a large enough sample size to be valuable since he's unlikely to have many of that particular device, so that leaves us with the carriers, manufacturers, and Google, none of whom release breakdowns on per-device numbers like those last I checked.

Sorry about that.

Re:Comparing 2 different things...

[foniksonik]

And that is how companies end up with multi million dollar upgrade problems. Rather than incrementally update annually and plan for it they push it out until they can't any longer.

Which one costs more? Depends on whether you include opportunity cost in your accounting. You may find that there are efficiencies lost and new revenue channels missed out on because the infrastructure is too out of date and upgrading takes too long to catch the wave of money.

Sure you save some but did you save enough to offset the lost earnings?

Re:Comparing 2 different things...

[AvitarX]

As a Tmo user (weakish coverage), killer feature is download for offline on maps (maybe the new maps work on gingerbread though)

Re:Comparing 2 different things...

[Arker]

I used to feel that way about phones. None of them are reliable anymore. I have learned to live without a phone.

Re:Comparing 2 different things...

[slack_justyb]

I know that I am talking to the absolutely wrong crowd here, but here's the deal. This whole update BS is a non-issue. Cell phones are equally disposable as your current Congress critter. The expected life is what two maybe three years.

Now I know everyone here is the uber geek and have their whatever device flashed with the latest OS and side loaded all their favorite apps onto their device, but there aren't many that really care about people like us, people who will do their best to continue the life of the device they purchased long after what a vendor had intended the device they sold you to last.

The computer industry has been banging its head on the wall for the last twenty years trying to figure out how to sucker people into buying a new device every two to three years. When the iPhone hit the market it was "Mission Accomplished" G.W. style for the industry. Us that like to hold on to our precious for five to seven years, don't even factor into the equation for computer vendors anymore, we're so last generation. Yeah, there will still be divisions that pander to us, the desktop ain't going anywhere, but for all intents and purposes, we're just not the tech market anymore.

That's why you see such hard pushes for tablets, and phones, and phablets. Because computer desktop market saturation is so freakishly high in the more developed countries of this world. It's why you see such frenzy in China and Pakistani markets, because technological saturation is still pretty low in those countries and disposable income is on the rise in those countries.

So hopefully I've made my point that the people who are of the mindset that they buy a device and it last six years are not who computer companies are targeting anymore, at least the mainstream ones. They want to sell a new device every two years to you, and that's why this update crap is a load of non-issue.

The majority of people, more than anyone here would like to admit, are going to buy right into this new device every two years crap. For them, every two years they not only get a new device, they get an OS update. Apple people like to spin this whole issue in the terms that, "Oh look our people stand behind us." When in reality, the only reason your getting updates like that, is because you're so freaking vendor locked in, you've got no choice on the matter (again, does not apply to the small group of people here that root their phone and go lone wolf.) Android people like to spin the issue as, "We're at the mercy of carriers." However, you bought into that cycle. You knew you would be at their mercy, you can't use that as an excuse, just wait a couple of more month till you get outside contract and go buy a new one. That's the whole reason their holding the update back from you.

There are so many people (none of them here on Slashdot for heavens sake) that have bought into this "trade my fridge in for a subscription of bags of ice" racket. People are so willing to just give up ownership these days, because they see so little value in ownership. Does anyone think all that crap they post to Twitter, Facebook, Google+, et al that they own it? Of course not.

We're all seeing a total erosion of ownership across the board in the Internet. That's why this update BS is just that, BS. No one really cares about updates. They'll just get a new device, they care so little about ownership that they just see physical devices that connect to all their cloud stuff as just as disposable as razors. The only people who do care about this update shit is the geeks out there that are still hung up on the old model of buy a device to last, and the people around them that are told to care about this shit.

I think everyone is missing the entire fucking planet because we're too focused on fucking trees and forest here. We're still believing that people buy devices to last them, whereas, the reality is, no one gives a shit. They'll just upgrade at the end of the contract. No one

Re:Comparing 2 different things...

[devleopard]

How many users are on the Nexus, as opposed to HTC, Motorola, and Samsung devices?

Re:Comparing 2 different things...

[bertok]

The problem is that it won't be the default handler for "map links" and other types of integration, like viewing your photos spatially on a map.

Until either Apple gets a better map service, or I can make the Google Maps app the default handler for all mapping-related tasks, I'll be skipping IOS 6.

Re:Comparing 2 different things...

[trawg]

Actually it seems you're just running around with your eyes closed. Nexus users simply get a notification when an update is available and the update works in 2 clicks, one to download and one to reboot the phone after the download is finished.

What percentage of Android users are Nexus users though? I am, but almost everyone else I know with an Android doesn't have a Nexus.

I'm looking to buy a Galaxy Nexus to upgrade from my dated Nexus One (..which still does almost everything I want) specifically because I know it is the only path to smooth Android upgrades. Most civilians don't know that and don't understand why it is important - they just end up at the mercy of their carrier or device manufacturer.

FWIW, everyone I know on a Galaxy Nexus said the difference between ICS and JB is like light and day - YMMV!

Re:Comparing 2 different things...

[cheesybagel]

1. The versions of iOS 6 running on older devices are severely diluted. The applications are not the same and I wouldn't be surprised if there were more changes besides that.
2. It's still a much more limited amount of hardware device configurations. The Galaxy S III also has a multitude of different carrier versions. Some don't even have the same CPU on it. That is just one Android phone.

Re:Comparing 2 different things...

[aaron552]

You haven't noticed Google Now? It's on the lock screen. That was the largest new addition in Jelly Bean, IIRC. Jelly Bean is an incremental upgrade, so there are less new features compared to 2.x to 4.0; it's more comparable to the upgrade between Froyo (2.2) and Gingerbread (2.3).

New features that I noticed: Extended notifications with additional actions (eg. SMS messages now show the entire message in the notification and have separate Reply and Call buttons), Google Now, smoother UI ("Project Butter"). I barely noticed the "dismiss all" button as it's been in AOSP builds since at least Gingerbread.

Re:Comparing 2 different things...

[aaron552]

It happens in the Android world too. More due to the manufacturer's skin hiding the newer features than because the hardware can't support it, though.

Re:Comparing 2 different things...

[aaron552]

On average, perhaps, but I'm sure you can easily find Android devices that cost more than the Apple equivalent, for example. Also, I know men who own iPhones that have never touched a woman in their lives.

Re:Comparing 2 different things...

[TummyX]

How about you stop making stuff up? Auto update is not only not enabled in phones it's actually not even an option to auto update.

Next time assert facts not guesses and assumptions

Re:Comparing 2 different things...

[bertok]

So hopefully I've made my point that the people who are of the mindset that they buy a device and it last six years are not who computer companies are targeting anymore, at least the mainstream ones. They want to sell a new device every two years to you, and that's why this update crap is a load of non-issue.

I get this mindset, I really do, even though I disagree with it. My IT purchasing habits back up my stance on the matter: I regularly replace my phone, laptop, and PC, usually every 2.5 to 3 years.

Until recently, I haven't been quite able to put my finger on what's wrong with this persistently popular opinion that this regular upgrade cycle is "crap", and somehow a "trick" pulled by the vendors. From a naive ordinary financial perspective it seems... correct. After all, we buy cars that are expected to last two decades, appliances for up to three decades, and even electronics like TVs and HiFi systems usually last at least a decade.

Computers are different, and it's all to do with the pace of Moore's law: Essentially, paying a premium for something to last 6 years or longer is not as efficient for everybody -- vendors and consumers alike -- as buying something cheaper/disposable more often. If it wasn't for the exponential increase of computer power, this wouldn't be the case! In that case it would make sense to buy more expensive computers with longer support and better physical build quality.

For example, I laugh at companies that "invest" in "big iron" that will "last them a decade". Sure, it will, but by the end of that decade it will be 3% as powerful as the "cutting edge" mainframe, because of Moore's law. Had the same company spent half as much every 5 years instead, at the end of the decade they'd have a computer that is 18% as powerful as the bleeding edge. Spending a third as much every 3 years or so would let them stay within 35% of the best possible performance at all times. Even if you assume that spending a third also cuts the performance down to a third, the result is still about 12% of the best available, which is lot better than 3%!

Sure, I'm simplifying an awful lot, but you get the idea: there's an ideal interval to spending, and it's about 3 years. A lot of us IT geeks just "get this" intuitively, but we can't quite put the "why" of it into words without sitting down and doing the numbers.

By the way, this is one major reason why server virtualization (e.g.: VMware ESXi) is so popular: It allows corporations to make the migration process to the "next generation" trivial and virtually risk free. A smooth, regular upgrade cycle of server hardware is so much more efficient than buying "big iron" for a decade it isn't even funny.

Phones are much the same, unless you use them literally only for making voice calls. If you use them for more general purpose tasks, then the same argument applies. Newer phones do more, do it better, and do it all faster, and this pace of improvement is exponential. Sticking to a 6 year or slower upgrade cycle means that you spend the majority of the time near the single-digit percentage level of the best available performance. Why would you pay premium for having less most of the time?

Re:Comparing 2 different things...

[Paradise Pete]

From looking at his posting history I'm pretty sure he does work for AT&T and has more than a fair bit of knowledge.

On the other hand, from looking at his posting history I'm also pretty sure he has a strong anti-Apple bias. As we humans are but simple creatures, our biases inform our opinions well before any rational thought has a chance to get involved. And overcoming that is not at all easy. It's damn difficult. And we are simultaneously highly susceptible to the phenomenon of confirmation bias, where we focus on information that confirms our beliefs while discarding information that contradicts them.
We all do it.

Re:Comparing 2 different things...

[beelsebob]

Easier even than that –phones are getting push notifications sent out saying "hey, iOS 6 is released, push okay to update"... push okay, wait 5 minutes, got iOS 6.

Re:Comparing 2 different things...

[EvilIdler]

At least there's this:
"Apps that offer routing information, such as turn-by-turn navigation services, can now register as a routing app and make those services available to the entire system."

Since iOS 5 they've added many little features for developers to integrate their apps more with other apps (see the results in apps like AudioBus). Hoping a full Maps replacement becomes possible too.

Re:Comparing 2 different things...

[beelsebob]

Uhhh... iOS very much does have auto-update. But it is never forced on users.

Re:Comparing 2 different things...

[cyber-vandal]

It fucking works? Except when it doesn't and brings your phone to a grinding halt. Which has happened to many, many people. Fanboys are fucking mental.

Re:Comparing 2 different things...

[Rich0]

Well, the updates for Android are just as easy. The problem is that they are never sent out in the first place.

The issue with Android isn't the deployment rate of updates - it is that there aren't any updates to deploy.

Re:Comparing 2 different things...

[Rich0]

And that is how companies end up with multi million dollar upgrade problems.

If you save $10M over 10 years and end up with a $3M upgrade "problem" at the end of that period, it sounds like good business to me.

If those interim updates would have actually created business opportunity then that is a loss. However, usually you're talking about going from XP to Vista to Win7 vs going from XP to Win7 - no big deal as long as you keep getting updates the whole time. When a software update actually has a significant benefit it usually isn't hard to get justification for deploying it.

Re:Comparing 2 different things...

[jbolden]

It just seems that a majority of those who are attracted to Apple products are not tinkerers and hobbyists (among other things), but people who view computers and phones as an appliance.

Well of course that's true of the overwhelming majority on just about every phone out there. The exceptions might be some experimental phones with incomplete operating systems of alpha versions of innovative hardware. What's a more interesting question is what phone attracts the tinkerers and hobbyists. I think Android because of the wonderful mod community. They also have terrific hardware diversity. On the other hand OSX attracts a majority of the computer tinkerers at this point, essentially taking a good chunk of what could have been the desktop Linux market.

I'd be cautious, we just don't know.

Re:Comparing 2 different things...

[thegarbz]

That was just one example. Want another? One day I plugged my Samsung Galaxy S into my computer to transfer some music onto it and Kies popped up a notification that an update was available. I clicked update. 1 click. May not have been OTA but in my books it was still simpler than the Nexus model. It even downloaded my carrier specific changes in the process.

Can't speak for HTC or Motorola but so far every example I have seen of upgrades on Android devices have been completely idiot proof and very simple to apply.

Re:Comparing 2 different things...

[jbolden]

Let me just add. The life expectancy of a smartphone is not 2 years. It is 11.5 months. Now that includes: warranty replacement, extended warranty, insurance, buying new phones early and early terminators of their contract. The computer market never had turnover this high. That's why this is so exciting for device manufacturers.

As for extending lifetime of devices. Now that devices are $700 there is a vibrant resale market and the average consumer knows this. Increasing the price to a level that creates a vibrant 2nd hand market has extended the life of phones. The same way it does for cars.

Re:Comparing 2 different things...

[thegarbz]

Erm ... The difference between light and day isn't much, but I'm going to go with that just being a typo. But what differences are we talking about? Subtle UI improvements in smoothness? That's not a killer feature. Multi-touch is a killer feature. Notification systems are a killer feature. A new fundamental app to the operation of phones are killer features. Android upgrades recently can be described as best incremental improvements and a metric shitload of developer APIs no one uses yet.

Also the Nexus was just one example. As I posted elsewhere the Galaxy S upgrade path is even easier, though not OTA. Plug the phone into the computer, Kies pops up a message and says and upgrade is ready, and one click later you're upgraded without any configs getting clobbered, and even the carrier customisations were applied. And the Galaxy S users make up a MASSIVE portion of the Android userbase.

Re:Comparing 2 different things...

[thegarbz]

Google Now? That thing which shows the weather on my phone?

Honestly if it worked I'd be raving about it, but the mere existence of a feature on the phone does not make it worthy of upgrading to it (much like the Apple Maps debacle actually).

So far the weather is the only thing it has gotten even remotely correct. It completely gets the traffic to home wrong since I don't drive that direction, my searches for places don't work well at all either (probably due to my erratic use of maps on the desktop), it doesn't give airline information correctly despite me putting in details in my calendar and searching on Google (which did show up the correct info), and I just opened it now to have a look and the cards it has popped up are, 22minutes to work (yeah at 11pm on a Sunday that's quite interesting), oh and apparently for some reason Gilhooleys Tavern has popped up in a card, and it's closed, and the nearest one is on the other side of a city, and I've never been there nor searched for it. ....

It has the potential to be a killer feature, but so far it's more miss than hit, and IMO certainly not a reason to upgrade the phone. I will agree the smoother UI is nice, but that is more of an issue on my old phone rather than those fancy new ones with processing grunt to spare.

Re:Comparing 2 different things...

[drinkypoo]

Apple told them that there's plenty of stuff there that's new and shiny - and it is - and they damn well want it now.

I want instant gratification too, but that doesn't mean I should always have it.

And they have full right to expect him to deliver that, not tell them about how they should wait because it's a "beta" (which it ain't).

No, they do not. They have a full right to expect Apple to deliver that, because Apple doesn't call it a "beta", which it is. Well, it's not really a beta, that's a bit hyperbolic. It's a release candidate. Apple has kicked it out to the public for testing. This is what we call a release these days. Nobody does sufficient testing any more. Apple is very much included.

Re:Comparing 2 different things...

[drinkypoo]

That's the whole point. They don't update because they're "iDrones", they update because it fucking works.

Only one of my fb friends reported owning an iPhone and updating it. It lost her contacts, and even though she has backed up her phone to iCloud, it has refused to restore them. Fucking works, my asshole.

Re:Comparing 2 different things...

[jrumney]

While all iOS devices are Apple phones/tablets/media players and the iOS 6 update is available for all of them made within the past couple of years.

The original iPad was still being made within the last couple of years, and does not get iOS6. The criteria actually seems to be devices that are still in production at the time of the announcement. iPhone 3GS was discontinued on Sept 12, a few days before the iPhone 5 launched, and gets iOS6 despite being an older device with lower spec hardware.

Re:Comparing 2 different things...

[jrumney]

And what three year old Android anything gets the same update as the current models

About as many as 2.5 year old iPads. Your point was....?

Re:Comparing 2 different things...

[jittles]

That is a negative. As of iOS 4 you cannot perform an OS downgrade. The OS will not install without a signature from Apple. They only sign installs of the latest OS. So no, you will not be able to restore that backup and get google maps. You can at best get your data out.

Re:Comparing 2 different things...

[jittles]

Uh.. yeah, let's talk about this for a sec. The iOS6 update caused my wife's phone to indicate that it was on wi-fi when it was not. She went to re-download her apps and...

So iOS6 wipes all your data, just like iOS5 did? Wow. The people in charge of iOS are idiots. I'm not upgrading.

Re:Comparing 2 different things...

[hey!]

What part of running a commercial network has any bearing on end users updating consumer products?

Consumers want the current stuff because that is what consumers want. Deliver it and you make money. Fail to deliver it and you end up circling the bowl.

Spoken like an pointy-haired boss with no knowledge of engineering and little experience in real world marketing.

If you want to know how to do this, look at how Jobs managed Apple product development. He didn't figure out what customers wanted then figure out how to do it. He figured out what he could do then figured out how to make customers want it.

You listen to customers, but you don't take what they say at face value. I once had a customer complain, "Every time you guys do something for me you want money." I didn't stop charging him; instead I developed a deal in which he pre-paid us for a bundle of services and support time so he could call us without getting an invoice. It was actually more profitable for us.

It's not always possible to resolve customer desires so successfully. Some customers want bleeding edge releases, stable predictable operation, and not to have to pay much for support. You can have at most two of the three. In a multi-vendor situation, sometimes one of the vendors makes out by making another vendor eat the support costs. Apple has a long history of screwing it's "partners", which is why I swore off developing for and supporting Apple platforms years ago, although I've always liked their products and use them myself. If a customer wanted me to do an iOS app, I'd do it, but I prefer not to build a business dependent upon Apple's ongoing goodwill.

Re:Comparing 2 different things...

[0xdeadbeef]

There is nothing more beautiful than a fanboy in denial.

Re:Comparing 2 different things...

[BasilBrush]

Wrong. Apple makes betas and release candidates available to developers in the months before the final release. They are tested, and they are generally very high quality when they are released.

Your comment is just fandroid bullshit.

Re:Comparing 2 different things...

[BasilBrush]

If your comment reflects typical thinking at networks, then those apple Geniuses probably are right. It is the networks fault.

Networks have access to iOS betas and release candidates in the months before a release. They should be testing it, and problems that come up should be reported to Apple or fixed on the network, depending on who's at fault.

It shouldn't come as a surprise on the day the iOS version launches.

Re:Comparing 2 different things...

[PmanAce]

Thanks.

Re:Comparing 2 different things...

[BasilBrush]

The problem is that it won't be the default handler for "map links" and other types of integration, like viewing your photos spatially on a map.

1) The map link itself specifies if it's a link to Apple Maps or Google Maps. If used on a device that doesn't have the appropriate app, the web based version of the appropriate map is opened.

2) Apple Maps may have some errors. But in what way would that get in the way of viewing photo locations. It wouldn't.

You seem to be worrying about things that aren't real problems.

Re:Comparing 2 different things...

[BasilBrush]

I wish I had mod points. That would be an insightful comment on just about any slashdot story.

Re:Comparing 2 different things...

[BasilBrush]

I don't think that's the criteria. I think the criteria is that the device is powerful enough and has the features required for the OS update. I think they got it wrong once... allowing iPhone 3G users to update to iOS 4, when it didn't have the horsepower required.

Re:Comparing 2 different things...

[ceoyoyo]

"Of course Jelly Bean's adoption level is very low because what, 3-4 devices support Jelly Bean officially?"

I think that was the point.

Re:Comparing 2 different things...

[drinkypoo]

Your comment is just fandroid bullshit.

If I had said anything about Android, especially about it being better, then you would have a point. But since I didn't, you're just a troll. I do prefer Android to iOS, but I don't think it's flawless. There are real issues for both users and publishers. I admit to hating Apple more.

Re:Comparing 2 different things...

[green1]

I can speak for Motorolla... the updates are completely idiot proof. so much so that they don't ever allow you updates for fear that some idiot might use it as an excuse not to buy their latest phone...
As far as I am concerned Motorolla makes the absolute best Android phones out there from a hardware and accessory stand point (phones with HDMI output ports, USB host ports, slide out keyboards, rock solid design and excellent audio and radio quality, and proper desktop docking stations with multiple USB ports as well as dedicated audio and video jacks, car mounts with audio outputs built in, etc). Unfortunately they are among the worst from a software/firmware/bootloader/upgrade stand point. My only hope is that being a subsidiary of Google will change some of that. even if just enough to get some of their high end devices supported by cyanogenmod officially...

Re:Comparing 2 different things...

[immaterial]

Where is this supposed setting?

Re:Comparing 2 different things...

[makomk]

Yeah. In particular, the iOS 6 update apparently breaks web standards (and a number of web applications) by incorrectly caching HTTP POST reponses that it's forbidden from caching by the HTTP specification. It also apparently manages to break HTTP polling which a lot of web applications still rely on. And that's even before getting into the obvious user-visible breakage like maps...

Re:Comparing 2 different things...

[slack_justyb]

Please don't blame Moore's Law for what we can all chalk up to as humanity being very inefficient. I can almost assure you that the majority of people never use the maximum amount of processing that comes from modern hardware. Software takes time to be rewritten for the latest greatest hardware. That's why people scale out as oppose to scale up. You think it is because of cost, to an extent it is, but more so, it is because they figure if their software maxes out on two cores, then setup four VMs on an eight core machine with two cores each.

If software magically kept in step with hardware advancements, then your whole point might have some ground to stand on. However, software doesn't scale like that. It usually take a whole software cycle or two to bring it to modern levels. (Seriously, look how long it took XP to get SATA.)

However all of this isn't even what I was talking about. People make the argument that software updates are important. They are only important when you are talking about hardware that will need to have a longer shelf life. Cell phones and tablets are not made to have that kind of shelf life, therefore, software updates are meaningless to them. That was the point I was making.

Finally, you apparently have no idea what Big Iron means. I won't even bother to try and help you understand what the draw is for Big Iron, but I assure you, it's not to reach umpteen teraflops. Additionally, I have "Big Iron" servers that were built in late 1990 that still schools some of the best modern boxen out there. To the tune of about 1,200,000 inserts per second. The best I've ever seen any Intel with maybe 300k to 400k inserts per second, that's with today's specs. A general processing element just cannot compete with a entire circuit that was built with the specific purpose of inserting rows into a table, and that's just one blade in the box. You understand that and you begin to understand why Big Iron is where it is, in places that have very specific needs.

I don't even know how we got on this whole topic, but humans are super ineffective and they themselves do not keep pace with hardware. Thus software never keeps pace with hardware. Hardware isn't exactly useful without software... Well I'm sure you can see where I'm going with this whole argument.

Re:Comparing 2 different things...

[slack_justyb]

Let me just add. The life expectancy of a smartphone is not 2 years. It is 11.5 months.

HA! Best thing I've heard today!

Re:Comparing 2 different things...

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

No, it does not. She just needed to make room.

Re:Comparing 2 different things...

[steeviant]

Standalone Google Maps app is currently in review and should be released shortly. So no need to panic just yet :)

In the immortal words of Wikipedia; "Citation needed"...

Re:Comparing 2 different things...

[Doctor_Jest]

As a former Apple enthusiast... it's simply not true. There are a lot of people happy with their product purchases, regardless of company. Apple does nothing special. They have problems with their products like every other company. (Batteries on their laptops, logic board failures on the G5's... etc. etc.) I am not saying that Apple is more or less reliable than competitors, because YMMV. But they do NOT under ANY circumstances do anything to "make customers happy." They do A LOT of marketing to convince customers that their (Apple) way is the right way to go and that happiness WILL come from owning an Apple product. That is not making customers happy. That's bloody good marketing.

Re:Comparing 2 different things...

[Doctor_Jest]

I never kept up with iOS's security patches, but I think it's both camps that should be releasing patches to their phone OS. Android and Apple only get "fixes" when new versions come out... that is unacceptable for both phone types. I don't think Android is avoiding fixing their problems with the OS, but I do think carriers are being pricks about supporting their product after the sale. The Android phone makers are more traditional than Apple in that regard. In the history of cell phones, most manufacturers went into hiding after you paid for the product. :) Apple's a breath of fresh air w/r/t keeping things current and patched (and supporting phones) They just need to do it off-cycle like their computer OS. I hope they keep it up, and not become just another Samsung with their phones...

Re:Comparing 2 different things...

[jittles]

Glad to hear that. Okay thanks for letting me know. :)

Re:Comparing 2 different things...

[jrumney]

I think the criteria is that the device is powerful enough and has the features required for the OS update. I think they got it wrong once... allowing iPhone 3G users to update to iOS 4, when it didn't have the horsepower required.

How does this explain the iPhone 3GS getting iOS6 when the iPad doesn't?

Re:Comparing 2 different things...

[trawg]

Erm ... The difference between light and day isn't much

Oops. Was either supposed to read "light and dark" or "night and day" but the message got confused between my brain and my hands somewhere.

But what differences are we talking about?

They say stability and UI speed - the two colleagues I work with that have Galaxy Nexuses both had regular problems with what they call general stability and complained regularly about the UI being slow and laggy to respond.

Apparently JB fixed all that stuff up to such a degree that the device went from a regular struggle to use to a much more pleasant experience.

As I posted elsewhere the Galaxy S upgrade path is even easier, though not OTA. Plug the phone into the computer, Kies pops up a message and says and upgrade is ready, and one click later you're upgraded without any configs getting clobbered, and even the carrier customisations were applied. And the Galaxy S users make up a MASSIVE portion of the Android userbase.

Again I'd be fascinated to see numbers on how many of those users actually ever bothered to upgrade. I had to install Kies on my machine to do something with a friend's S2 once (can't remember - run it as a USB disk? Something that I thought it was silly to have to install other software for, anyway) and found the whole thing to be the fairly typical crappy software experience.

I would guess that without OTA upgrades - or without actually tying the phone to the machine for its day to day use, like iPhone does w/ iTunes integration - you'd see much lower upgrade compliance. I know the numbers for Android show they're generally all over the place but there's just so many factors that just kill the OS upgrade path dead it's hard to know what they should focus on.

I really want an S3; I like the look of the phone and I love the idea of shoving another purchase of it in Apple's stupid face - but I can't bring myself to get a phone where I'm stuck waiting for someone else to decide when I should get OS updates (regardless of how good they are) and I'm not interested in self-updating via jailbreaking or whatever - so the Nexus is again the path for me.

Re:Comparing 2 different things...

[Aqualung812]

when in reality any software, hardware update should be shunned for at least six months

So, YOU are part of the reason I left AT&T. Had a Windows Phone. OS update that fixed both SECURITY and major OS bugs was released early in the year, but AT&T thought it was in my best interest to block the update. What assholes.

That would be like Dell or Microsoft releasing a driver update or a OS security fix, and Comcast deciding that the update "should be shunned for 6 months".

How about AT&T redirect their dickish behavior back to Apple, and demand a support number they can hot-transfer people into if Apple's update breaks Apple's phone. Same with Samsung, Google, Microsoft, etc...

"So, you updated your Apple phone with an Apple update & it broke? One moment, let me transfer you to an Apple Genus!"

Your escalation issues are solved with a click, and you can quit telling your customers how to use their own devices.

Re:Comparing 2 different things...

[Waccoon]

I'm no network engineer, but I live by this anyway. Half the time I update software, some utter stupidity about the UI pisses me off and I can't easily go back to the old version.

I got upset over Firefox Download Day. Even though Firefox 3.0 was pretty well tested at release since it has an open alpha release, the idea of turning a major update into a game or a contest was really stupid. Zero-day major updates are for people who don't do anything useful with their devices.

Get a Jobs

[fm6]

The good news about living in a walled garden is that you benefit from Steve Jobs's obsessive need for state of the art. The bad news about living in a walled garden is that you have to live with his obsession for control.

And yes, I know he's dead. But his obsessions live!

Re:Get a Jobs

[Cimexus]

You don't HAVE to update to iOS6. Not sure that "control" is really the right word to use here. You either update to get the new shiny features ... or you don't and stick with old faithful.

(Yes I know the iOS ecosystem controls you in other ways, but OS updates, the topic of this thread, is not really one of them)

Re:Get a Jobs

[fm6]

I'm not complaining about the fast updates — exactly the opposite. I wish we had them in the Android open garden. I'm only pointing out that the same level of control that lets Apple push out updates quickly also makes for a certain paternalistic relationship with developers and users.

Re:Get a Jobs

[Rockoon]

You don't HAVE to update to iOS6.

auto-update is the default on iOS5

Saying that you don't have to do it is being just a wee bit dishonest about the situation.

Re:Get a Jobs

[beelsebob]

Uh no – auto-update doesn't exist in iOS 5 (nor iOS 6 in fact)... The most you'll get is an alert saying "ohai, iOS 6 is available, wanna update?"

Re:Get a Jobs

[Rich0]

They're pushing them out in the sense that they're making them available for every device that runs the OS that has been made in the last few years.

When Android releases a new update they usually only do it for one device, with updates for a few other devices a few weeks later (all Nexus branded). It usually takes a few months before NEW models in stores are even running it.

The reason that Apple can do this and Android can't is because Apple strictly controls the hardware iOS runs on - you can't install iOS on some phone made by HTC and sell it legally. You can do this with Android (with some limitations if you want Google branding/apps). Android is much more open, but that means that vendors who don't bother with updates are allowed to use it.

The actual update process itself is really no different between iOS and Android. It is just that with Android it is almost never used.

Re:Get a Jobs

[BasilBrush]

auto-update is the default on iOS5

Auto-update: The OS is updated without asking you. Does not exist on iOS and never has.

Whether you update via OTA or via iTunes, what happens is that you recieve a notification that there is a new OS version, and it tells you what it is, and what the benefits are. And then you can chose to install it if you want to.

One click install for sure. Auto (forced), certainly not. Not even possible, never mind default.

He's not being a wee bit honest. You're being either ignorant or a liar.

Not always smooth

[Grayhand]

I hate doing updates for my iOS devices. Every time I've ever done it it kills the device and I wind up wiping it and doing a reinstall. It has always worked so far but why does an update brick the device every time? It's happened with every touch I've ever owned and the tradition is alive and well with my "New" iPad/iPad 3. You'd think Apple who normally has a reputation for seamless upgrades would be better than this?

Re:Not always smooth

[needsomemoola]

As of iOS 5, it is smooth now, as long as you use the "Update" feature (not Restore) in iTunes or even better (and smoother), the built in update on the device. I used it to upgrade from 5 to 6. It took a bit to download (600 MB), but besides that it went perfectly.

Settings -> General -> Software Update

I hope this helps.

Re:Not always smooth

[evil_aaronm]

I had trouble updating my iPod Touch 4th gen, but that's because I use the Peel 520 device to provide phone capabilities to my iPod Touch, and use Cydia-installed software, which causes the update to choke. If I were to disable the Cydia portion, I'm sure the updates would work just as well as it did on my wife's iPhone 4S. Updates always worked fine before I installed Cydia and the Peel software.

Re:Not always smooth

[Cimexus]

I have to wonder what on earth you're doing. Among my immediate and extended family we have 13 iOS devices, which of course being the "IT guy", I am responsible for setting up and updating and troubleshooting etc. Not one has ever had any issue doing an iOS update, and I've done them via iTunes and OTA.

Not doubting you or anything but there must be something you do that's "unusual", since it seem to happen every time...?

Re:Not always smooth

[aaron552]

iOS updates are 600MB? That's easily 5 times the size of the Jelly Bean update for my phone. Do they include the assets for every device or something?

Re:Okay?

[Anonymous Coward]

That's great?

No, but wake me up when it hits 125%.

Customer focus

[Microlith]

Well when you're Apple and have a unique position among the handset vendors where the carrier doesn't insist on fucking with your device software and lets you treat the end user as the customer, and interact with them directly to provide support, then it's a lot easier.

When you have the mistaken perspective (easy to make in the US) that the carrier is your customer and you should cater to them, shit happens like ancient devices without updates. Not that it'd help blatantly irresponsible companies like Motorola, who repeatedly abandon handsets after a year or so, but may be they'd be more willing to do a better job (or more directly feel the effects) if they weren't protected by contracts and buffered from reality by the carriers.

Re:Customer focus

[Nemyst]

Yes, and I'm seriously hoping that now that Motorola is officially part of Google, their support will improve, if not for current phones, then at least for the next models. It's entirely unacceptable that so many phones are left with ancient versions of the OS. Google should put it in the licensing agreement for getting access to the Market and Google apps that they need to support their phones for a certain period of time.

Fewer, better phones, I say.

Re:Customer focus

[puto]

i work for ATT, as stated in a previous post, and the carrier does let you fuck with your device software, like ATT customers cannot use Facetime over the network unless they are are on certain data plans, which is flag created by apple, because they get a percentage of the cost of the data plans, and stand to make more money... not the US but Apple... And Apple rules at ATT is that if you want to upgrade before you contract is over, you pay 250 bucks plus the cost of the upgrade. But then I know shite about Apple...

Re:Customer focus

[Cinder6]

The Android update situation raises an interesting question: Who should wear "the pants" in the carrier/vendor relationship? I can see arguments for both sides, but I have to think it would be better if the vendors had a bigger say in things.

Re:Customer focus

[Microlith]

No one, frankly. They should be wholly separate. With the move to LTE and, from the looks of things, multi-band and multi-format basebands coming early in the technology's lifecycle, it might actually be viable to buy a handset and pick from the carriers.

The stupid thing is letting them try to be more than dumb pipes and put up barriers to customer mobility between them.

Re:Customer focus

[Microlith]

Regulation is always an option. Barring hardware exclusivity, like they do in Europe, is another.

Re:Customer focus

[Rosyna]

i work for ATT, as stated in a previous post, and the carrier does let you fuck with your device software, like ATT customers cannot use Facetime over the network unless they are are on certain data plans, which is flag created by apple, because they get a percentage of the cost of the data plans, and stand to make more money... not the US but Apple...

And Apple rules at ATT is that if you want to upgrade before you contract is over, you pay 250 bucks plus the cost of the upgrade.

But then I know shite about Apple...

And this is why people hate AT&T with a passion. It's even worse when employees of AT&T actually believe this crap. "It's Apple's fault we have to charge more for FaceTime over cellular" when AT&T is the ONLY carrier in the US to do this. Sprint, T-Mobile (see Unlocked & Unlimited promo), and Verizon have all made it clear they don't charge extra for FaceTime.

Data is data.

Re:Customer focus

[cheesybagel]

If you want that you just buy a Nexus device. Or you wait for the updates to come up. Or you use CyanogenMod. Or you roll your own.

Re:Customer focus

[Rich0]

ONLY if it was made in 2011. Even Google seems to think that security updates for an OS should only be made available for about 1.5 years after the date of first sale.

Re:Customer focus

[makomk]

Apple doesn't require AT&T to charge extra for FaceTime over cellular, but I'm pretty sure that's not actually what the comment you're replying to says. They did deliberately add special code to allow carriers to charge extra for it or disable it altogether which certainly makes them complicit at the very least..

Re:Customer focus

[maccodemonkey]

And Apple rules at ATT is that if you want to upgrade before you contract is over, you pay 250 bucks plus the cost of the upgrade.

Just upgraded my iPhone before my contract was over, no $250 on top of the upgrade price. In fact, I got $100 off the off-contract device cost.

Calling shenanigans...

Math is hard

[Anonymous Coward]

>35.4% adoption of iOS 6, with iOS 5.x holding court at 71.5% adoption

So, iOS 5.x and 6.0 have reached 106.9% adoption on his site? That's impressive.

Re:Math is hard

[Idbar]

Well... now it makes sense. If they used the same people releasing these numbers to craft the maps, I can imagine bigger map tiles causing all those bumps on the roads and airports after stitching.

Re:Math is hard

[jamesh]

>35.4% adoption of iOS 6, with iOS 5.x holding court at 71.5% adoption

So, iOS 5.x and 6.0 have reached 106.9% adoption on his site? That's impressive.

There are probably some old iPhone 3's (and 2's?) still in service that could never run iOS5, so the numbers become even more impressive!

Re:Math is hard

[BasilBrush]

It's not his maths that's at fault, it's your logic.

If I update from iOS 4.x to 5.x. Then from 5.x to 6.x. I have both adopted 5.x and adopted 6.x. They are not mutually exclusive.

OP must be new here

[Anonymous Coward]

iOS upgrades and Android upgrades are not comparable.

Most android devices aren't even eligible to upgrade to the next major versions. My droid charge for example is stuck at 2.3.x.

Re:OP must be new here

[mjvictory]

But is that how it should be? The best comparison is Android to Windows/Linux, where we see old hardware being upgradeable, by the user, without rooting the device. There is no technical reason a one year phone cannot be upgraded to JB. But thanks to Google/device manufacturers handing so much control to carriers that does not happen. This is a situation where Apple really does lead the way.

Re:OP must be new here

[Rosyna]

iOS upgrades and Android upgrades are not comparable.

Most android devices aren't even eligible to upgrade to the next major versions. My droid charge for example is stuck at 2.3.x.

Isn't that the point?

Re:OP must be new here

[puto]

my two year old moto defy is running jelly bean. I mean it is a hacked mod, but this is /., are we not supposed to be the least bit techie?

Actually...

[sootman]

... the really funny part is it also eclipses the over-one-year-old Ice Cream Sandwich (4.0) as well.

Re:Actually...

[farkus888]

You, like everyone else so far in this conversation, are making a false equivalence fallacy. The only thing this article points out is adoption rates by users when the software became available to the users. The only actual apples to apples comparison to android would require a by carrier and by device breakdown because that is how android users get updates. What was the adoption rate of Jelly Bean on the Galaxy Nexus on VZ the same amount of time after VZ started pushing it to users? I know my android phone was updated less than 8 hours after its most recent update became available to me. Considering most people just click ok on everything that pops up in front of them I imagine the adoption rate is high, since all it takes to update an android phone is to click ok on the notification and wait 5 minutes for it to do its thing and then reboot. My last iphone took longer to run its updates than my android phones have and it required far more user interaction and effort to get those updates started in the first place.

If I wanted polarized arguments with neither side bothering to think at all I'd go read about politics. It is a statistic, not grounds for a holy war. Why isn't anyone here talking about a technical solution to increase that adoption rate? That is what this real nerd was hoping to see here. I wonder what percentage of those are new devices that shipped with ios6? Did his math account for people with new devices being forced to re-download his app? This clearly doesn't show any indication of software upgrade rates on old hardware, but mathematically they must be lower than overall adoption rates since 100% of new iphones are on ios6.

Re:Actually...

[Rich0]

I think you're missing the point. Sure, the article is talking about deployment rates, but the bigger issue is that there is even an update to be deployed. With iOS you get updates for years after getting your device, period. With Android you're lucky to get an update while the thing is still being sold in stores. The actual deployments are reasonably fast (though generally slower with Android - which I think is sane from a QA perspective). They just never happen unless you buy a Nexus device, and even then only for 1.5 years after they are FIRST sold.

If you bought a brand new Nexus phone two years ago, you wouldn't even be running ICS, let alone Jelly Bean. A brand new Nexus phone two years ago would have been the Nexus One. If you bought a brand new Nexus phone a year before that you wouldn't have gotten a single software update - that would have been the ADP and it never even got Eclair.

YouTube

[rickintx]

Don't forget to get the new youtube app, since apple dumped the native one for no good reason.

Re:YouTube

[garcia]

There was no reason to have a native YouTube app included in the OS, was there? I can count the number of times I opened that app on one hand in the 4 years I've owned an iPhone.

I downloaded the new YouTube app, opened it once and then deleted it. It's the same shit you get on the web and it's mainly for finding new videos rather than anything truly useful. It's not like you need the app to view the videos.

This is really a non-issue.

Re:YouTube

[Cinder6]

Don't forget to get the new youtube app, since apple dumped the native one for no good reason.

And thank God. The old one was really outdated--a relic from when Apple needed a custom solution in order to even play Youtube videos (during the whole "no Flash" debacle)--and borderline terrible. The new one on the App Store is loads better.

And yeah, the license they had with Google expired. Sounds like a good reason to drop it. Besides, if you don't want it, why should it be taking up space on your screen? (Now, if only I could drop Stocks and Newsstand. They just added Passbook, but it looks like it has some potential.)

Re:YouTube

[gmhowell]

Don't forget to get the new youtube app, since apple dumped the native one for no good reason.

You still carry a starter crank for your car? No good reason to have gotten rid of them.

In other news, Chrome 18 adoption at 33%

[Tony Isaac]

Make it easy / free for people to upgrade, and they will upgrade!

http://insights.chitika.com/2012/chrome-18-sees-high-adoption-rates-33-of-users-are-running-latest-version-in-under-a-week/

Re:Okay?

[siddesu]

No, it is comparing apples to oranges as usual. I wonder what is the adoption of JB on Google devices. For me, it is about 100%, as all my google android gadgets run JB.

Pretty lame

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

That's a pretty rapid pace, eclipsing Android Jelly Bean's 2-month adoption levels of 1.2% easily

To be fair, that's not due to lack of interest. That's due to companies like Samsung who don't step on the gas to keep these devices up to date. Just a month ago I finally got ICS on my Tab.

Re:IN OTHER EARTH SHATTERINFG NEWS

[omfgnosis]

That sounds pretty good, can you post the recipe?

Phooey! iOS6 Broke Stanza

[sehlat]

Tried it out on a spare iTouch, given the history. Stanza showed how much it liked the change by locking up on display setting changes.

Yeah, yeah, I know, the Dread Pirate Bezos bought Stanza because it was a serious threat to his precious-piece-of-trash-kindle.

Phooey on Apple and Bezos both.

Re:Phooey! iOS6 Broke Stanza

[sl149q]

MegaReader.... indie book reader that is almost as good as Stanza in most ways and better in some. And is actively supported.

Support your Indie App Developer!

Caching Problem

[johnkoer]

Apparently there is a bug in Safari for IO6 that causes caching of POST requests, which is causing all sorts of web developers to scramble like crazy to implement cache busting in their apps.

Thanks apple.

Re:Okay?

[Nerdfest]

There's also the fact that Android is not limited by design, or artificially by Google in what parts of the interface can be replaced. There's really very little that that newer versions of the OS can do that cannot also be done with an app. I have an older Android phone ... I can run ICS on it, but still run Gingerbread as I find it leaves me more memory on my old hardware.

What's the benefit?

[thegarbz]

Really what's the upgrade benefit? Apple has marketing on it's side. Google fails at this miserably. I could go and download Jellybean but what benefit do I get? I have no idea what new features (if any) Google includes in their OS update.

As for slickness, it depends on the device. The Nexus series receives OTA updates which I have no experience with but I know the Galaxy S series will update when you connect to the computer with Kies. errr let me make that IF you connect to the computer with Kies. Most people I know with Galaxy S phones don't actually run Kies on their computer so they wouldn't know about the update. My girlfriend does but I can't even convince her to upgrade to IceCreamSandwich let alone to Jellybean. Every time I say that she should just click upgrade rather than ignore on the screen when she connects the phone she asks why and I reply with ... "errrrrr..... " and come up empty about what that killer feature is that should encourage us to upgrade our phones.

At least Windows XP doesn't run Direct X 10 or IE9, but there's little motivation to upgrade an Android phone.

Re:What's the benefit?

[Man On Pink Corner]

There are some significant UI performance improvements in Jelly Bean. Scrolling is much more iPhone-like, for want of a better comparison, than it was under ICS.

Alternative for bus/train routing

[tgibbs]

In Safari, go to www.maps.google.com.
Click the middle icon at the bottom of the screen
Select "Add to home screen"

Re:IN OTHER EARTH SHATTERINFG NEWS

[Hork_Monkey]

WTF happened to the trolls here? I used to kill time reading Adolf_HitTroll, the GNAA, etc. Love 'em, hate 'em, they filled that gap until the real content came in.

Now there are hippies in my trolls!

Not cool.Not cool. Vegetarian trolls can't even make dick jokes, so it's really just a waste of time.

Good luck with Google

[SuperKendall]

Apple maps is still a little raw. But I've had Google direct me to closed stores, and to THREE imaginary Arby's when driving through Nevada.

Apple maps will get better too, now that they are crowdsourcing map errors. That's what Google had to do also.

Re:Good luck with Google

[ceoyoyo]

Google seems to like to direct me the wrong way down one way streets. I haven't had iOS 6 long enough to tell whether Apple's is better yet.

Re:Good luck with Google

[zippthorne]

They did you a favor by preventing you from visiting a real arby's....

Re:Good luck with Google

[SuperKendall]

I eat healthy almost all the time. A constant stream of water (almost never soda), fruits, Quinoa, etc etc.

But sometimes you just need a Beef & Cheddar and a Jamoca shake. Hey, it's healthier than a fast food burger... Ok well perhaps not with the cheese sauce.

I go to Arbys so that option will continue to exist.

You can choose any map app easily on iOS6

[SuperKendall]

You can use maps.google.com in Safari.

Or you can open up one of several mapping applications that have alternate maps.

Complaining about not being able to "choose" a map is far different than the complaint about not being able to choose a browser. You often use a browser by opening links from other apps; Almost always when looking for something on a map you open the map yourself so you can choose whatever you like to open.

In fact old-school Google map links will open in maps.google.com right now on iOS...

Hard now but better later

[SuperKendall]

The big problem for me is I mostly use the google map for its *excellent* bus and train routing. I can just drop in an address, let it pull my current location from the GPS and have it give me really great bus/train combinations.

I've used this heavily before as well.

However I would not say it was "great". If you use it for one place for a while, you start to notice that it doesn't really have a good handle on where exactly the transit is. After a while, I would notice buses that take the same route as the one it's directing me to wait for, passing by before the bus I wanted - even though it would have been better to get on those first.

Google transit nav suffers from the same disease so many transit apps have, a real lack of context of what else is really happening or slightly different routes that might be better.

Yes, right now it's painful if you cannot find apps that help you with transit in iOS (though there are already quite a good crop of them). But over time what iOS should end up seeing is apps specific to a region that do a way better job of really helping you with transit options, because they can be more tailored to the local situation - like for instance in cities with rental bike stations, why does that not show up in google transit? Before too long it will in IOS...

Re:Hard now but better later

[Killall -9 Bash]

My only problem with google transit is the use of abbreviations for bus and train routes, with no further information available. For example, if you're from Philly, you might already know that MFL is the Market-Frankford Line, or that BSS is Broad Street Subway (or might not, since those aren't abbreviations SEPTA uses anywhere)... But good luck to any tourists standing on that corner, looking in vain for a MFL or BSS sign.

DING DING DING

[SuperKendall]

Other note is, perhaps Google would not let Apple continue shipping with Google maps. The license was up, who knows what heady terms Google demanded.

Competition is good, so I look forward to Apple spending a few billion bringing up a nice mapping alternative.

Re:Okay?

[aaron552]

I'm not so sure you can do everything in ICS on a Gingerbread phone using just apps. Things like notification swipe-to-dismiss were added in AOSP gingerbread builds, but you won't get Jelly Bean's extended notifications, or "Project Butter", or even hardware-accelerated UI.

It is a better map

[SuperKendall]

Yeah, my 3GS is eligible for iOS 6 - but there's no way I'm upgrading until Google's standalone Maps app is released.

As just a map to read, I find Apple's maps more readable.

Yes SOMETIMES search is not as good. But mostly I have been able to find the same things. If you can't, just use maps.google.com in Safari or even Bing maps in safari. Or one of the myriad offline/online mapping applications (like Waze which is free).

Not to upgrade iOS6 because you've bought into the hype around maps being bad is kind of silly.

Re:It is a better map

[93 Escort Wagon]

Not to upgrade iOS6 because you've bought into the hype around maps being bad is kind of silly.

I use the Maps app a fair bit - so no, it's not. I want things to "just work", and the iOS 6 Maps app just doesn't.

It also "helps" that I don't find iOS 6 a particularly compelling upgrade.

Re:It is a better map

[SuperKendall]

You yourself admit that the new map app is "not as good" and you have to resort to using maps.google.com

No, I told him to do that so he could feel OK about upgrading.

I have not had to use any other maps since I started using the Apple maps about a month ago.

Basically it's just training wheels for people freaked out by morons like you claiming the Apple maps cannot be used.

Re:It is a better map

[SuperKendall]

I use the Maps app a fair bit - so no, it's not. I want things to "just work", and the iOS 6 Maps app just doesn't.

If you are not using it, how do you know? I think it works pretty well generally. I've been using it for around a month. I also make heavy use of maps. What exactly do you think will not "just work"? Google certainly doesn't answer to that description either so if you are OK with the flaws Google maps had I don't see where Apple's would be any more or less frustrating.

It also "helps" that I don't find iOS 6 a particularly compelling upgrade.

Suit yourself but I find it faster overall, like I said I like the new maps, and developers do find a number of iOS6 features compelling so chances are apps adopting that as a minimum will be much more rapid than in the past.

Apple customers rush to buy

[kawabago]

Yup, there's one born every minute.

Re:Apple customers rush to buy

[BasilBrush]

The iOS 6 update is free.

You must have been the one born that minute.

Re:IN OTHER EARTH SHATTERINFG NEWS

[collet]

Laura was last year. I'm in love with Kate now.

Re:IN OTHER EARTH SHATTERINFG NEWS

[lucm]

I know that one: mix brown rice, lentils, onions, garlic, yams, plantains, green peas and jamaican jerk flavor until it becomes a vegetable stew.

Re:IN OTHER EARTH SHATTERINFG NEWS

[omfgnosis]

Wow thanks.

iPod Worth Updating?

[Vegan Cyclist]

Anyone updated their iPod? I've got a 4th Gen, any point in going to iOS6? I suppose at some point it'll pretty much be mandatory..but until then...? I think mine's become quite a bit more sluggish since going from iOS4 to 5, so worries this will be even slower... It's weird that when hitting the top button, it takes 1-5 seconds for it to 'click' and turn off the screen....

Wow, Good riddance, say Apple fans

[rueger]

All I can guess is that IOS5 must have REALLY, REALLY sucked!

Re:Okay?

[siddesu]

Please wipe the foam from your mouth, then restate your question again. I don't really understand what you are asking about. It certainly does not address the point I am making.

Fanbois ...

iOS6 vs JB update pace

[Anonymous Coward]

You are comparing two totally different things here. Android (Linux) is a general OS and iOS is a specific one. This means that the iOS can take all models into account but that is not possible from a AOSP-perspective, since each phone model using Android has a code delta with phone HW specific adaptations.

A better way to compare (but still not perfect) is to compare a specific Android phone models JB update pace with a iOS6 update pace.

Re:Here is a hint: Stay away from numbers

[gl4ss]

You don't have the capacity to read numbers right and are too stupid to work with them

Here is a clue: That 71.5% is out of the 35.4%.

I know ... you are probably too dumb to understand that direct response too. After all ... it has numbers.

I'm too dumb to understand that. 71.5% out of the 35.4% are running ios6? and the 35.4 are running either ios6 or ios5? WHAT THE FUCK KIND OF REPORTING IS THAT??

Features?

[Deliveranc3]

Android Diehard here.

I'm running a G1, the first Android phone. I love it. Looking at 2/3 year old phones (+1 month) for an upgrade.

It's not like Apple released a new filesystem. It's just a couple of Apps. Android makes me install new apps sometimes. Bloody pain since I have 92 Megs of space on the phone (Still think MicroSD is smart, removable storage is smart in a droppable device).

Check for yourself, google iOS6 features.

I found this - http://www.sctimes.com/article/20120923/BUSINESS/309230014/iOS-6-offers-features?nclick_check=1.

Yes it sucks Google is stuck behind the 8 ball on updates. Their OS is WAY better. But the kind of garbage they put in these updates is increasingly new apps and stores and ads and other garbage.

I love having a custom OS (running Ginger Yoshi, thinking of changing to BeatMod, really miss track change with volume button holding). If Google cared they'd test roms and let them be updated. Changing OS on an Android device is trivial.

Now if only changing Google users were as simple.

Anyway install Tethering, Wireless Tether, get Root. Then anything they "update" had better be bloody good or I can get it myself.

Anyone else noticed Android has crappy Blue Tooth file support?(None) Only tried it to Linux but that should work better anyway.

Re:Okay?

[beelsebob]

Yes it is – it means that developers are likely to be able to target iOS 6 very soon, giving them the ability to use more features and not have to make hacks to have things work on earlier OSes... great!

Re:IN OTHER EARTH SHATTERINFG NEWS

[nospam007]

" Vegetarian trolls can't even make dick jokes, ..."

I can post my recipe for spotted dick.

http://britishfood.about.com/od/regionalenglishrecipes/r/Pudding.htm

And the bad is?

[SmallFurryCreature]

Since it has been widely recognized that Steve Jobs was an absolute asshole, how exactly is him killing himself through his asshole attitudes a bad thing?

At least he finally did something good with his dead. Homeopathy does not work. If it doesn't work for the rich and evil, it won't work for you. Get real medicine from real doctors.

Not a very long war

[SmallFurryCreature]

Samsung can answer the question: You and what army of killer robots.

Re:Okay?

[cyber-vandal]

I hope they're working on an accurate maps app as soon as possible. Of course if the poor users weren't locked into this retarded walled garden Google probably could have given them working maps immediately.

Re:IN OTHER EARTH SHATTERINFG NEWS

[Anonymous Coward]

You forgot the water.

google maps transit routing still available

[tgibbs]

I like Google transit routing, although there is certainly room for improvement. Sometimes it will recommend a route that will leave you stranded for an extended period of time if its estimate of travel time turns out to be a bit optimistic. I'd like to have a transit routing app that would give me a choice of the fastest route or the most robust one (i.e. with a little more time for connections or with a later connection without a big delay). I'm hoping that Apple's decision to link to 3rd party apps for this feature will result in more competition and better transit routing.

In the meantime, Google's transit routing can still be accessed on the iPhone at www.maps.google.com

Re:The future is not kind to those that stay still

[thegarbz]

Those advances in libraries that developers crave

Developers are craving advances in libraries are they? When I look at the Play Store money makers like Angry Birds, and my long list of about 200 apps the vast majority are written for Android 1.6.

But I'm open to examples of killer apps that require some of these new APIs. Though I will admit a few of my apps were written for *gasp* 2.1 to get multi-touch support, which really is the last craveworthy feature I saw in Android.

Free to choose

[tgibbs]

In fact, there are numerous map programs available for iPhone, including some free ones, so users are indeed free to choose whatever map program they want to use. Personally, I like Navigon, which isn't free, but which is quite reliable (although I've never used any GPS mapping app or device that didn't occasionally make routing errors, sometimes ludicrous ones).

The Google-based version of Apple Maps had some nice features, but it hadn't really advanced with the times, and no longer met user expectations for a mapping app. It seems likely that Google was not highly motivated to produce an up-to-date mapping app for iOS, because its improved version was a selling point for devices using their own Android OS. So Apple had little choice but to produce their own mapping app, and deal the problems that will inevitably arise when there are suddenly millions of users, because no amount of testing is going to catch every glitch worldwide.

In the meantime, most of the functionality of the Google version of Apple Maps is still available at www.maps.google.com.

two thoughts

[buddyglass]

1. The adoption rate of Jellybean among Android users whose devices actually have the upgrade available is probably about the same as the adoption rate of iOS 6 among Apple users whose devices have the upgrade available.

2. In other news 25% of iOS users are now pissed about their device's Maps app.

Who has the remaining -3.9%

[loufoque]

Seriously, can't editors even add up percents?

No Way Back

[__aaltlg1547]

Yeah, Apple achieves high rates of adoption by using proprietary methods to ensure you use iTunes to talk to your phone and iTunes pushes you hard to update your device's software. But they don't provide a means to revert your device to a previous release that worked better. So millions (or ALL) iOS users are going to be stuck with whatever Apple has broken (this time, mostly the maps app) until they fix it -- if ever. Aren't you glad you shelled out all that money for an iPhone and aren't you happy that iOS makes updating so easy?

Now the cat is out of the bag. The ONLY reason mapping ever worked right on your iPhone was thanks to Google. Didn't know that? Well you do NOW. You'd think the guys at Apple would be smart enough not to release their replacement until it was comparable to Google's but no such luck. This is a major blunder, brought on by Apple's burning need to kill off Android.

False equivalence

[umkvec]

These two release processes are nothing alike. Adoption percentage means nothing when different devices are built around different operating systems.

4.x has SNI, which protects you from the Firesheep

[tepples]

One reason to upgrade from Android 2.x to Android 4.x is that your login cookies are less likely to get stolen in transit. Right now, some web sites have to keep users of Android Browser for Android 2.x and Internet Explorer for Windows XP on unencrypted HTTP because those platforms don't support name-based virtual hosting with HTTPS.

Apples, Oranges, and Banannas!

[Targon]

Apple has one thing going for it, very few models with fairly little variation between models. This means that the OS can be EASILY updated for every iOS device without a ton of effort. With Android, there are a ton of different hardware combinations from many different vendors, and to offer an OS update, you need DRIVERS that will work on each model. This is also why you have driver issues with each architecture change in Windows, because getting hardware vendors to get good drivers out requires EFFORT.

Now, considering that fairly few devices have come with Jelly Bean on them, it makes sense that the adoption rate would be low. Device drivers seem to have come out, and device makers have been working to certify that JB works PROPERLY on existing devices before doing the release.

Re:The future is not kind to those that stay still

[BasilBrush]

That was the second part of his point. That developers can't use more recent libraries, because the majority of Android users are still on ancient OS versions.

The result being that the quality of Android Apps lags ever further behind iPhone, because even where a new Android version provides a feature for developers to use, most of them aren't using it until it's years old.

I can see why non-techies

[Archfeld]

go for apple, they do the UI well, and they are generally reliable, but I for the life of me can't even begin to see why a techie would put up with the insane control freaks at apple when you can control your own device and OS using android.
If you can't program your vcr, or if you still have one Apple is the fruit for you.

SSL on shared hosting

[tepples]

The interface may be a tiny bit smoother, but other than that there's no real difference, no killer feature and critically no lack of features on the older systems.

One difference is the ability to use HTTPS with web sites on shared hosting plans. Unlike Android 4, Android 2 doesn't support Server Name Indication, meaning it'll see only the certificate for the first domain hosted on a given IP, and you'll get a certificate error when you try to visit the others.

Who's been living without voice routing?

[tgibbs]

another in an increasingly long list of features that apple fans have been willing to live without for many years

Yes, the lack of a Apple voice routing app was an unfortunate consequence of relying on Google. Google never provided voice routing, and the terms of use for Google's data specifically prohibited using it for that purpose.

But comments like yours make me think that people who have never owned an iPhone have simply no notion of the richness and diversity of 3rd party apps available for iOS. Like virtually everybody who has a need for it, I've had voice turn-by-turn navigation on my iPhone for years. There are a wealth of such apps for iOS, at a range of prices down to free. The only thing we haven't had until now is an Apple-branded one. Which explains why the glitches with the new Apple Maps app haven't dissuaded much of anybody from upgrading to the new version of iOS.

more than one reason for rapid adoption

[roc97007]

It occurs to me that there's more than one reason to adopt the next release. I don't have the stats handy, but I suspect Windows ME users, for instance, adopted XP at a rapid pace. When the previous version is pants, one tends to reach for the next version in the (sometimes vain) hope that it fixes at least some of the issues.

Eliminating support for the previous version looks like a good reason on paper, but I don't see a lot of evidence (except perhaps in corporations) that it really works that well. (I personally know of a common, currently used control system that still runs on embedded Windows 98.)

And then, there's the personality cult. That one seems to work fairly well. Ahem.

No maps app will be ready before release

[SuperKendall]

Or, you know, keep the google maps app for another %^%$^% year, and release the new maps when it is ready?

What is ready though? As I noted Google maps still can't get things right.

With maps there is no choice. You release something, and get millions of users to point you to errors they find. THAT is how you build a maps app. And that does not happen if you never ship.

Re:The future is not kind to those that stay still

[SuperKendall]

But I'm open to examples of killer apps that require some of these new APIs.

iPhoto is one. Very quick review and manipulation of full-sized (15MP+) images on a mobile device.

Garage Band is another. Really impressive virtual instruments and track creation tool.

Also just a slew of advanced photography and audio and video editing tools. Apple has great libraries for helping you perform some advanced manipulations on image data in a performant manner that make making such applications easy.

satisfied users

[ChronoFish]

Clearly Android users are more satisfied than iOS users.

That may be a slight against the OS or it may be a slight against the user base.

The Samsung commercial pretty much sums it up. iOS users are willing to camp out for a phone that has features that other phones have had for months/years. A person who is willing to camp-out for a phone is either a person who is not satisfied with their existing phone or(and) not a person who is easily satisfied - while at the same time hold their phone as a type of idol.

-CF

Re:satisfied users

[bgibby9]

Clearly Android users are more satisfied than iOS users.

Definitely my take on this as well!

Re:The future is not kind to those that stay still

[thegarbz]

Erm 1.6 and older make up less than 0.4% of current Android usage. Eclair is 3.7%.

If a developer is still targeting these systems (which most of my apps are) because of fear that someone can't use it, maybe they should be visited by the men in white coats. Even Froyo only makes up 14% of a user base. To put some perspective on this there's double the percentage of users on Froyo than on Windows Vista, and my Android 1.6 and earlier comments are less than half of the userbase of Windows NT4/2000/2003.

Anyway we're back to a chicken and egg problem that people were talking about back when the Google App Store had only a handful of apps. If Angry Birds 3 or Songpop or some similarly massively popular app suddenly said it works only with ICS I think you'll see half the world upgrade overnight.

Re:The future is not kind to those that stay still

[thegarbz]

iPhoto is written for Froyo (4 versions behind)... not that I'd want to try and even open a 15mpxl image on a phone where Froyo was the last version shipped. That will likely run slower than cold molasses.

As for the rest of your comment you do realise I am talking about Android APIs right? Garage Band is an iOS only product from what I can see.

Re:The future is not kind to those that stay still

[SuperKendall]

Both are iOS only applications. I am talking about apps that take advantage of newer APple API's. No Android equivalents exist because it's not economically feasible to target newer versions of Android to write them.

Re:The future is not kind to those that stay still

[thegarbz]

Ahh that fallacy I pointed out in an earlier post. Somehow the developers of some 200 apps I have on my phone decided to code in a way that makes them compatible with Android 1.6, you know to get that last 0.4% of the userbase.

Seriously there have been massive API changes over the years, but when developers get a clue and realise that most of the world is on Gingerbread and maybe take a leap through 3 versions of the API in the process then I'll start taking the issue seriously. But right now I don't see the economics argument as something holding people back. I mean shit fruit ninja didn't support multi-touch citing the same "economically feasible" garbage back when the Donut userbase was only 4%. That was their excuse for not coding to Eclair at the time, 4% of the userbase.

When developers stop spouting garbage I may start taking the issue seriously.

iOS 6 features that won't work on your older ones.

[antdude]

http://crave.cnet.co.uk/mobiles/ios-6-features-that-wont-work-on-your-older-iphone-or-ipad-50008227/

It seems like many people are having issues with iOS 6 upgrade on their old iPhones (not the new 5). Is there a list of known iPhone 4S' iOS 6 issues of them so far?

Thank you in advance. :)