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Ask Slashdot: Securing a Windows Laptop, For the Windows Newbie?
madsdyd writes "I am a long-time user of Linux (since 1997) and have not been using Windows since 1998. All PCs at home (mine, wife's, kids') run Linux. I work professionally as a software developer with Linux, but the Windows installs at my workplace are quite limited, so my current/working knowledge of Windows is almost nil. At home we have all been happy with this arrangement, and the kids have been using their Nintendos, PS2/3's and mobile phones up until now. However, my oldest kid (12) now wants to play World of Warcraft and League of Legends with his friends. I have spent more hours than I like to admit getting this to work with Wine, with limited success — seems to always fail at the last moment. I considered an Apple machine, but they seem to be quite expensive.
So, I am going to bite the bullet, and install Windows 7 on a spare Lenovo T400 laptop, which I estimate will be able to run both Windows 7 and the games in question." Read on for more about the questions this raises, for someone who wants to ensure that a game-focused machine stays secure.
madsdyd continues: "Getting Windows 7 from a shop is surprisingly expensive, but I have found a place where they sell used software (legally) and can live with that one-time cost. However, I understand that I need to protect the Windows installation against viruses and malware and whatnot. The problem is, I have no clue how. One shop wants to sell me a subscription-based solution from Norton, but this cost will take a huge dip into my kid's monthly allowance — he is required to cover the costs of playing himself, so given that playing WoW is not exactly free, this is a non-trivial expense for him. On the other hand, he has plenty of time, so I guess he could use that time to learn something, and protect his system at the same time.
How do other Slashdotters provide Windows installations for their kids? What kind of protection is needed? Are there any open source/free protection systems that can be used? Should the security issues be ignored, and instead dump the Windows install to an external disk, and restore every two weeks? Is there a 'Windows for Linux users' guide somewhere? What should we do, given that we need to keep the cost low and preferably the steps simple enough for a 12-year-old kid to perform?"
How do other Slashdotters provide Windows installations for their kids? What kind of protection is needed? Are there any open source/free protection systems that can be used? Should the security issues be ignored, and instead dump the Windows install to an external disk, and restore every two weeks? Is there a 'Windows for Linux users' guide somewhere? What should we do, given that we need to keep the cost low and preferably the steps simple enough for a 12-year-old kid to perform?"
Install Microsoft Security Essentials and forget about it.
Run it through your regular NAT router setup and tell your kid not to download nasty stuff!
And consider the educational value of having him get viruses. And the joy of reinstalling the OS.
Maybe he will appreciate dad's wisdom to date ;)
I know you asked about securing, but there is more than just security that is often overlooked in windows, that can be learned from the *nix world.
First, don't give anyone admin privileges with their default account. You are just asking for trouble if you do.
Second, the swap file should have its own partition. In *nix this is pretty much dogma, and it well should be in windows as well. Everyone knows that windows loves to fragment the hell out of its own file system, and the windows swap (paging) file is no exception. If you put it on its own partition you will make defragmentation a lot easier later when you have to do it.
Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
Use a VM.
Let your kid roam on the computer and once it slows down teach him to reinstall the computer himself.
Anti-virus programs are reactive rather than proactive so you should expect a windows machine to be infected soon or later (unless used by a somewhat obsessive noscript,etc user that avoids most risks).
How did you learn? By making mistakes. Let him run his Windows 7. With admin rights. If he gets viruses, trojans, adware, malware, so be it. If he needs to reinstall every 3 months as you probably did when you had Win 95, so be it. That's how he'll learn.
Your kid might not be satisfied with the way WoW works on an old T400 laptop. Check the graphics specs vs. the game recommendations. And for security, I'd just use Microsoft Security Essentials. It's free, probably works as well as any of the subscription-based anti-virus products and how much do you really care if your kid's game platform gets a virus?
If your machines have the power for it. you may be able to get away with running Windows in a VM. Install everything, get it set up properly, then snapshot it and restore to that point at the end of every gaming session. It's one fairly sure way of keeping Windows safe.
You can use AV, be careful (i.e. stay the hell away from insecure trash like IE or Outlook), but that is it. Windows, when connected to a network, cannot be secured by itself against targeted attacks, unlike any Unix or Linux. In professional environments, restrictive firewall settings also help, but that requires firewalls not running on the host. Security-wise Windows is a lost cause.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
You've got it right already. Windows is a set of problems implemented for the niche called "IT Professionals". PlayOnLinux does quite well at taking the difficult fiddly parts out of wine. IMHO, you will be better of if you get it working in linux (Considering that you are happy in every other regard). Just be sure not to use something with compiz. (like Unity), or it will hurt your performance pointlessly.
That being said, to answer the question that you really asked: Don't use Norton or McAfee. They just suck [up ram|in general]. That's about all the advice I can give you. Good luck.
1) Install a free antivirus program like Microsoft Security Essential or AVG. Most free antivirus programs are close enough to paid software as long as you pick the better ones.
2) Run the computers network through a filtering program or DNS server like OpenDNS with the filtering option enabled.
3) Limit user account for kid. Install the software he needs for him. This would be a major improvement in security with limited hassles as it's usually the user that is the cause of many security issue.
Bonus) Occasionally keep a backup image of the hard drive. If the computer does get infected, it's easy and faster to recover from.
Two comments -
1. If you're going to use Wine, go purchase Codeweaver's Crossover version. It's much better than the standard Wine. Plus, you can get a warm fuzzy feeling you're paying to support open source. PlayOnLinux is an option too.
2. However, do expose your children to Windows. It's what they're going to learn in school and possibly what they'll need in the workplace. (Oh, I'm sure some people would like to point out why I'm wrong, people have been predicting the demise of Windows for decades. It's still the de facto standard.)
Finally, just go download something like MIcrosoft Security Essentials or Avast for your antivirus. They're free and work.
----- obSig
'nuff said
Get a laptop BEFORE Windows 8 comes out! You got like 5-6 days.
Windows 8 is god-awful and you will regret it! Get Windows 7 Laptops and PCs while they last!
Dont protect the machine. Let him taste windows the way Microsoft serves it. What does not kill him will make him stronger. Either he learns to protect the machine on his own and stays in Windows camp. Or learns that the few things in the Windows world is not worth the pain and suffering comes home to a real OS. At best you throw him a nickel and ask him to buy a real OS. [Growing a beard before throwing that nickel is optional.]
sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
...one word: Proxy.
Run your kid's network connection through it (enforce it via the home router if necessary), and whitelist what he is allowed to visit. Here is an example of how to set up SQUID to do that.
That by itself will knock out virtually all threats from the network.
As for the machine itself, install CCleaner and AVG (which IMHO is among the least intrusive of the A/V solutions), maybe tweak RDP so you can sniff around in there from time to time remotely w/o his knowledge, and that should cover practically everything you really need to protect and control your kid's computer.
Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
and it runs on Linux natively. http://www.heroesofnewerth.com/
Obviously if his friends are already playing LoL it might be difficult to switch.
What about when the WoW/LoL servers themselves get pwned?
It's actually not a bad idea to run Windows in a VM that boots from a clean snapshot every time.
It would be an even better idea if the machine in question was ONLY used for the games in question, but all it takes is one "Let me look that up on Google/Start IE" or "Gotta check my FaceBook" to start the can opener.
You do want to do two other things. 1) Keep that install disc, and make sure the kid knows how to install Windows himself, plus install his games himself. I think WOW and probably LOL are both cloud-based saves so wiping the HDD is no issue. Reinstalling Windows is generally 1/4 the time and hassle of actually fixing a malware problem.
2) Let him know that he is only likely to get viruses doing things he shouldn't. Drive-by downloads on legit sites are rare. Drive-by-downloads on warez, gold sellers (for WOW), and porn are a lot more common. If he is going to do that stuff (you can't stop him) at least make sure he knows that those are dangerous sites. If his computer is acting funny after visiting one, and a reboot doesn't fix it, then wipe the install.
What free antivirus do you install on windows
Install Windows Security Essentials and you'll be fine. Seriously, it's not like by putting Windows 7 on a computer your house is immediately going to be invaded by zombies dragging every virus or malware known to man. Install WSE (or one of the other recommendations from the above thread), run with standard (not admin) rights, and that's pretty much all you need to do.
Neil
Don't use IE, and whichever browser to do use, install Flashblock.
Also, get an installer from ninite.com for Flash, Reader, and Java. Set it to run every day.
1) Install Microsoft Security Essentials. It's free and works as well as any paid Anti-Virus that I've used.
2) Educate your kids on the types of website to avoid. Sites like Limewire (where kids get free MP3's from) are full of viruses and spyware.
3) Set them up with a non-Admin account. That way if something bad happens the damage is minimized.
4) Install some add ons for the browser. No Script is a good one. It blocks Java Script and the bad guys love to use that to wreck havoc.
5) Consider creating a separate partition for the OS. If something goes wrong it's nice to have the OS separate from your own files.
6) Consider something like Norton Ghost (there are free alternatives as well) that can create a full image of your HD. Take snapshots before doing major system updates. If something goes wrong you can just restore the image and everything is as it was.
7) Running Windows as a VM on top of Linux is a good idea. If something goes south you can simply copy the pristine image back over the corrupted one.
8) Stay on top of the System Updates. Microsoft has "patch Tuesday" where they typically release system patches. Some of them are important and fix known vulnerabilities.
Just tell him there are better things to do with one's time than playing a stupid video game.
Have him learn a game programming engine, or a graphics program - anything like that is a much better use of his time. Or any other non-computer hobby would be great too.
Why not make the kid do it? That way instead of learning that there will always be people out there to do things for him, he will learn to rely on himself(and google of course).
I only use Linux when I brush my teeth.
Getting Windows 7 from a shop is surprisingly expensive
He didn't even look. NewEgg is selling it for $99. A 30 day WoW subscription is listed on the Blizzard store for $15. So your OS costs less than 7 months of playing just one of the games you listed - tell me again what's expensive?
A recursive sig
Can impart wisdom and truth
Call proc signature()
Install everything (Windows, Microsoft Security Essentials, the game(s), whatever else is needed) clean, update it all, then back an image and keep it handy.
Reinstall the image every month or three.
blindly antisocialist = antisocial
$550 is quite a bit for a used computer.
If you're worried about your kid getting access to inappropriate things on the net, try K9: http://www1.k9webprotection.com/
"Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get" - Jerry Avins
You want to keep the laptop secure. You want a 12 year old to use it. You want it to run Windows.
There is no solution. There will always be security risks and in some cases a negative time-frame to deal with them. Doesn't matter how good your AV is or what utilities you put on there, if it's connected to the Internet and there's a user at the keyboard then it is inherently insecure.
Now, how "secure" do you need it to be? If you're ok with putting that laptop on a separate subnet from everything else and teach the kiddo to do a proper update check every couple of days you should be able to mitigate most of the 'risk'.... but that seems a bit much to ask.
No mod points here. I played WoW for 3 years on Linux using Crossover Games. Codeweavers has merged all of their Wine forks into one product so it's even more worthwhile to buy it now. There have been a few issues (such as memory problems on 64-bit Linux hosts), but overall it works pretty well. I had no trouble doing end-game raids (Vent works fine too).
I made a security guide for hardening Windows against threats, it's at http://bulletproof-windows.blogspot.com/ - it may be useful, it's not professional by any means but I think the advice there can help a Windows security newbie.
"...I think the Microsoft hatred is a disease." - Linus Torvalds
WoW runs perfectly under Wine, even under a dirty prefix, and has for like 5 years, maybe longer. League of Legends you must clean Prefix, and install dx9, dotnet2.0, and vcrun2008. Then LoL will work. I know from experience that this shit works.
and went all Linux in house. Told the kid to suck it up for any games that were not available on console. 5 years later I get a couple of complaints here and there but sure as hell beats reinstalling windows every 6 months. You can tell the kids to not download all you want but they're kids so it takes a few times to learn not to download files from all over the places.
by TheSpoom (715771) Uncaring Linux user here. I have nothing to add to this but please continue. *munches popcorn*
Before you give in, I highly highly suggest you try virtualizing windows on a working (ideally multi-core) Linux box with Oracle's VirtualBox.
It's completely free, frequently updated, allows control of everything, including number of processors and RAM to dedicate to the virtual environment, and the only exception is the lack of support for discrete hardware graphics acceleration (But for now should be OK for the games he wants to play).
As a log term windows admin who's cleaned up more home computers than I care to count, here are my tips:
1. Ensure windows updates are set to download and install automatically.
2. Install AVG Free, sure MS essentials is good, but I guarantee every virus is written to avoid it, I go with 3rd party AV wherever possible.
3. Install Chrome for web browsing, sync the account to google
4. Setup his account as a regular user, don't give him the admin password
5. Setup something to backup Warcraft, it's a huge download, you don't want to be doing it again if you need to reinstall
And that's it, it's basic security but win7 is pretty good, the above has been enough to keep our home XP machine safe for many years.
Ultimately it's a kids computer and they're going to click anything shiny, sooner or later it will get a virus. There are a few key points to bear in mind here:
1. It's going to happen, preventing it is pretty much impossible.
2. Your other computers are Linux, so the risk to them is negligible.
3. Most viruses these days are botnets or phishing, so long as he's not spending a fortune on a debit card, the risk to him is minimal.
4. All the software I recommended will update itself, so it's zero maintenance. That's a major factor in keeping windows secure.
5. If it does end up riddled with viruses, a quick re-install over the top, followed by a sync to google and it's all back to normal, including your files and settings.
I'm a Windows guy for the most part so I'll give you my various insights from that world.
First things first - have you tried WineX/Cedega or whatever evolution it's on to try running these things on your nix boxes? I've heard of various successes and I'd assume there's got to be a write up somewhere for how to do this - at least for WoW. Not sure about LoL.
"Getting Windows 7 from a shop is surprisingly expensive, but I have found a place where they sell used software (legally) and can live with that one-time cost."
OEM copies are a cheap route and the only main difference is that Microsoft wont provide support directly. You're basically buying as a computer builder and saying you'll provide the support yourself. If you're anything like me you've probably never even considered that option for a consumer machine and would likely just google it or...ask slashdot. :p If you've got a domain/ldap set up at home to manage your gear and want these machines under that you'll want the professional version (home doesnt support joining a domain). Otherwise Home edition is probably fine for the kiddos. Also make sure you get the proper architecture you need (32 bit or 64bit) depending on your gear. Last I saw you could get the OEM ones through Newegg and haven't had problems with the ones I've gotten from there. Note, make sure you don't accidentally buy an upgrade version - you'll need full. ($99 from Newegg here: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116986&name=Operating-Systems )
However, I understand that I need to protect the Windows installation against viruses and malware and whatnot. The problem is, I have no clue how. One shop wants to sell me a subscription-based solution from Norton, but this cost will take a huge dip into my kid's monthly allowance — he is required to cover the costs of playing himself, so given that playing WoW is not exactly free, this is a non-trivial expense for him. On the other hand, he has plenty of time, so I guess he could use that time to learn something, and protect his system at the same time.
Screw the paid route. Use Microsoft Security Essentials and be done with it. It's actually not a bad product surprisingly. The only changes I make after installing is going into settings and having it scan removable media when inserted and also creating a system restore point during each scan (VERY handy when things get jacked up). Also, your kid is 12, so chances are good some internet training will go a LONG way. Teach them about about all the evils of the information super highway and let them know it's ok to simply ask you if they're unsure.
Also, he's at that age where he's totally going to be looking for porn. Let's just admit that can get that out of the way. Go ahead and install Spybot and Ad Block Plus as that'll help a bit. Spybot you/he will need to run manually periodically unless you set up scheduled jobs for it. You can either go the route of "if you're going to surf, surf safe" or you could try blocking those kinds of sites via whatever software works for you (I've got no experience with this). Chances are good they're going to find the stuff one way or another so I'd assume the worst and protect the machine from such environments. I'm sure other slashdotters will have better input for this topic. It'll also help to make them a lower privilege user - though that takes away from their autonomy and thus ability to learn how to admin their own box. Your call though - you're the parent.
How do other Slashdotters provide Windows installations for their kids? What kind of protection is needed? Are there any open source/free protection systems that can be used? Should the security issues be ignored, and instead dump the Windows install to an external disk, and restore every two weeks? Is there a 'Windows for Linux users'
See title. I feel it important to point out that the Lenovo T400 does not meet World of Warcraft's minimum requirements. The Intel GMA 4500 GPU that this laptop has is specifically listed on Blizzard's website as not being supported. What this means is that even if you manage to get it to run, performance will be poor and the game really won't be any fun. In fact, I have to wonder if the problems you've had related to getting it to run in wine are more hardware-related - the computers you are trying to do this on simply aren't beefy enough.
Other specs on the system are borderline bottom for barely meeting the requirements. Don't subject your kids to that. Get them a new computer with Windows 7 preinstalled. For virus protection, Microsoft Security Essentials does fine (free with Windows 7, though it is a separate download).
You may prefer Linux, and it may even work for you, and for you that is fine. But we live in a Windows world - you are doing your kids a serious disservice by not giving them Windows exposure now. They'll need that experience in 10 years when they are trying to get a job - any job - that isn't Linux development.
Intelligent responses welcome, flames will be met with marshmallows.
Since he will be the only one to use it, and for games, there should be nothing of value on the computer, so some malware are not going to be the end of the world.
At worst, he will have his battlenet account hacked, so just teach him to use secure passwords and an authenticator. (You probably already did.)
As some others have already pointed out, the best is to let him experiment by himself. However, there aren't that many (common) ways to get malwares; if it happens, you'd best have a talk with him about not going to shady websites, or download random stuff (plus you don't necessary want him to go to porn websites too).
Translating - you aren't a windows guy, and you aren't going to become one for this, but you don't want to waste time reinstalling every couple of weeks or listen to your kid crying his account got hacked.
With that premise
- Set Windows updates to nightly download and install automatically.
- MSE (AV from MS) is fine, oddly enough. Its even light enough you can run a second one such as Avast! if you wish.
- NAT router in front assumed
- Leave the Windows Firewall on, don't enable file sharing
- Install Firefox, make it the default browser, load two addons - NOSCRIPT and AdBlock Plus. Remove the IE icon from the desktop.
- Council the kid that this is NOT his general internet browsing/use machine. It is dedicated for the games. Continue to browse etc. on the systems you know how to maintain.
With the above, you have no cost, minimal maintenance and the machine is very likely to stay secure for years.
--- Mercutio was right.
Do you have broadband?
They all come with a free security suite.
http://xfinity.comcast.net/constantguard/Products/CGPS/norton/
http://www.cox.com/css
www.att.com/esupport/article.jsp?sid=KB402441
http://www.rr.com/security
http://www22.verizon.com/home/utilities/security-backup
I was too envious to finish the rest of the paragraph...
You need to use a sandbox - google for sandboxie, read up on it and find out how to set it up to put your bookmarks outside the sandbox, etc.
You need to use a good browser, right now for me that's Chrome.
You need to do the customary tweaks to the browser such as ad-blocking, script blocking, etc. Ghostery seems to do well, chrome also has a noscript clone.
You can make windows accounts with limited privilege.
If you want an active antivirus you can use microsoft security essentials - free.
If you want to pay for something then get the pay version of Malwarebytes - will be active and run all the time. Otherwise the free version is "on-demand."
For myself, I never surf without a sandbox, ever, never without ad and script blocking. and in my opinion (FWIW) when you do that an antivirus is moot.
Also I use web based email, have done for years. Thus no attachments get downloaded automatically, and my email provider seems to do some a/v checking anyway.
Most infections come from drive-by downloads and that pretty much won't happen with adbock and script blocking. Most malware won't even run inside a sandbox anyway!
For good measure configure the windows box and then capture an image. If something gets messed up to any degree just pop on that fresh image and boom, rolling again with no hassles.
Use dropbox to store important documents. So if you have to re-image your documents repopulate automagically. I also use google bookmarks and lastpass.
Flappinbooger isn't my real name
The design of the registry makes it very difficult to tell what is "bloat" and what is not. Various optimizations in XP and more recent versions mean that any performance enhancements should be negligible. Unless those few hundred kilobytes are important, and the possibility of breaking software components of your system is not, you should not use CCleaner or any other registry cleaning tool.
Why would you want to have a limited browser cache anyway? Do you like longer access times?
Those who advocate genocide deserve every protection afforded by law, and none afforded by common human decency.
Every year I host a LAN party on X-mas Day. On Linux.
2006 - Duke Nukem 3D
2007 - Urban Terror
2008 - Warzone 2100
2009 - Doom 3 and Unreal Tournament
2010 - WoW
2011 - Enemy Territory Quake Wars
This year will be Borderlands or Halo. (Under Wine) Not sure which.
So the idea this kid needs Windows 7 is doubly rediculous. I make it my business to host contained LAN wars for Friends and Family.
Make the gaming PC as consolized as possible. Setup multiple partitions if you need to or provide a secure VM on the house server that he can use to peruse questionable sites without exposing the gaming machine and its expensive and time consuming software stack. Dont let the gaming OS browse the web, except when absolutely necessary (like steam, Blizz account pages etc) Image the hell out of the machine regularly after rolling in new changes. Treat it like a static machine, not a general purpose PC. Do not allow Flash, Acrobat or java on the machine other when absolutely necessary for gaming. Setup adequate backup protocols, instruct him on how to visit sites using secure methods like accessing it through the VM and then destroying the session.
Good-bye
I have to agree here: the laptop mentioned ain't gonna run the game in any way or form that's actually pleasant.
The biggest security hole in every system is the human. Teach your kid safe browsing and general safety guidelines. Viruses don't get on a machine by themselves. Put on MSE and a firewall. Don't use third-party antiviruses, they cause more pain than the actual viruses.
By and large, real gamers are pretty clueless about software, know less about OSes, and nothing about security. What they know of hardware comes straight from benchmarking websites.
Generally speaking, you get ugly results when you run out of RAM with no swap file. Windows of course has notoriously aggressive paging, and changing this behavior is not as simple as on other OSes. There are a couple of registry settings, however, that govern how large the filesystem cache is and whether drivers and core components can be swapped to disk. You can also lock the process in memory if you really must.
Yes, you can more simply set the swap size to zero. Yes, many people don't have stability problems with this. Yes, you can use a wrench instead of a hammer if you have to.
If your system is having issues with paging, don't disable paging: just buy more RAM.
Those who advocate genocide deserve every protection afforded by law, and none afforded by common human decency.
It maybe true that the programs are not WOW and LOL. Perhaps he made that part up to not reveal what he really wants to run. Maybe something more like World of Big-Breasted Whores. Whatever. Give the guy a break and instead of busting his chops for his protecting his provacy answer the question huh?
Have to agree, I just upgraded my girlfriends laptop for WoW, I got her an Inspiron 15r Special Edition (the one with dedicated graphics). You really do save your self a lot of hassle getting something that will actually run the game. At $800 with windows installed it really is not that expensive.
Sorry, teleporters just kill you and then make a copy. A perfect, soul-less copy.
s/provacy/privacy/
Really, you are telling someone to use a PRE-SP1 version of a MS operating system? Why do you hate them, did they kill your dog or something.
Sorry, teleporters just kill you and then make a copy. A perfect, soul-less copy.
... (but can't afford $90 for Win 7 Home?)
1. [Re-]install the OS that came with your laptop - you already paid Microsoft once (both games run under Vista/XP)
2. Microsoft Security Essentials and Malware Bytes together are an excellent way to protect against malware etc,
But more importantly
"the kids have [...] their Nintendos, PS2/3's and mobile phones"
yet your kids have to forego traditional PC gaming or suck it up on a crappy laptop because you """"can't afford"""" to give them a reasonable gaming PC?
Yes - reasonable gaming PC means Windows, not Wine. Suck it up cupcake. By all means, I encourage you to be angry about the matter and get to work on sponsoring/contributing to the Wine project, etc - but right now - they are NOT viable alternatives and those are your kids. If they turn out to be interested in programming/etc, then later on you can start holding the carrot of bigger/better gaming hardware for Linux boxes if they want to get involved in those projects. But for now - they just wanna play games, and that means a decent PC running some version of the MS OS. Quit trying to be a technohippie and let them play.
-- A change is as good as a reboot.
Have you tried Play on Linux? http://www.playonlinux.com/
Having logged maybe a year or so playtime (!!) in both those games combined, I can tell you that not only are they both very addictive, but the playstyles of both those games require an inordinate amount of time to even be able to attempt to play at a decent skill/gear level. They are both designed to suck as much time out of people's lives as possible. This may be an ok thing for lonely adults, but you're setting yourself up for some major disappointment if you don't put your foot down now. Making him pay for his own subscription sounds good at first look, but you are, in fact, giving him control over something which will in fact control him. Good luck taking away something he feels he rightfully 'owns'. Another issue is the environment of both those games are not good for children. Horrible in fact. You are essentially allowing him to play in a virtual dive bar, with all the crappy people and whatnot that goes with it. Lastly, that laptop doesn't look like it will run either of those games at an acceptable framerate. Lol's engine is poorly optimized, and will eat most older computers alive - the same goes for WoW, but for different reasons - the engine is sleek, but there's just so much going on at a time that it will crap on your computer when it most matters. If you want to send your kid into an abusive environment, try sports or something.
Truecrypt
Submitter here:
Step 1: There is no windows to uninstall. There are literally no Windows installations in this house, (and actually never have been, as we built the house in 2004, but that is another story). The kid in question - my 12 year old son - does run Linux (Kubuntu 12.04) and uses e.g. Scratch from MIT for programming, libreoffice for school work, minecraft for, well, minecraft and so on, and so on. Oh, and he runs his own minecraft server.
But, no, I can't get WoW and LOL to work with/under Linux (neither can he). Starting point is some semi-old laptop (not the T400, which have just become available recently), running Kubuntu 12.04. Been through various permutations of Wine, Crossover and some "just install this, guaranteed to work, autoinstall Wow" permutation of crossover (I think, have forgotten the details). For all, it looks as "the right thing" happens, but eventually it turns out something or other does not work, e.g. the system is left for 24 hours to download the last 1% and it just does not happen. I think the last approach we tried, we ended up installing a US version (?) and beeing in Europe, this apparently (eventually) failed to start. Or something. I have lost count of the hours we have used. I simply can not make it work, and I do not know any persons that can. I could possibly hire someone to do it, but I have no idea if it ends there. What if all his friends plays "FunkyNewGame" next year, that only runs under Windws? What then? Make no mistake: I consider Windows in this context simply a console, much like the PS3 - but a console that needs a lot more handhelding than the PS3 (And, I understand that WoW does not run on the Xbox).
Now, beside that I personally have other things to use my time on, all this fidling is also a very frustrating experience for my kid. I do not expect you to understand this, especially not, if you have no kids, but he gets his hopes up high, and sort of thinks his dad is "the shit" for finally making this work, and then, after 4-5 hours of reading, installing, downloading, and whatnot, it just does not work. And, another day/week/month has gone by with him still not beeing able to play WoW/LOL with his friends. So, as I stated, I am going to bite the bullet and get Windows. For this particular purpose. (Oh, and possibly to reprogram the properitary house control system of this house, which was the only legal option to install, according to Danish Law, when the house was built - but again, that is another story).
You may argue that my linux skills are inadequeate because of this - you may be perfectly right. The sad truth is then, that my Windows skills are even worse.
This reiterates a few previous posts, but here are some comments in a nutshell:
- The T400 won't come close to running WoW, even if it has the premium discrete graphics that were offered at the time it came out. Integrated graphics? WoW won't even load. Build or buy a cheap desktop from a couple of years ago with a decent $50 graphics card and you'll be much better off.
- Windows 7 + microsoft security essentials will keep you secure. Then you need to teach your son the same basic internet security you need on any net-connected device -- don't fall for phishing or fake download schemes. There's no reason to buy third party AV.
- If you're buying a new OS license, you probably should just get Windows 8. It's less resource intensive than Windows 7 in every way, so if your son is trying to game on legacy hardware, that will help. Additionally it has full antimalware built in, along with a raft of improved security features. And finally, with the special offers these days, it's probably cheaper (if it's not, you're probably not getting a legal Win7 license).
- I'm of the opinion you give your son full admin to the computer, and if he breaks it, well, he learns how to fix it. Restricting him to a limited user account just means it's harder for him to learn. You should take other steps to protect your network in case he busts his PC, but that's awfully hard to do with Win7/8 and basic AV software.
--------------------- -me, Crusher of those who are Foolish (don't be foolish)
...Then I would suggest Kaspersky: http://www.kaspersky.com
It's comprehensive, it has signatures for almost every virus/malware/etc out there. (I've used it to remove stuff from some of my friends' machines that their installed antivirus program wasn't catching.)
It's simple to use, my dad has it on his machine, and he's around 76 so I don't think that your son or you will have problems using it.
It's customizable, you can lock down your laptop as much as you like using the 'Parental Controls'. (My dad uses it to keep from accidentally wandering into parts of the Internet he'd rather not see. Also, you can lock the system down by: limiting the time the computer is run (no more late night sessions), limiting the places on the internet the laptop can connect to (so the laptop could only be connecting to the gaming sites), and limiting which programs be run (limit laptop to running just the game programs)).
It's lightweight on a system, the parts (modules) were designed from the ground-up to work together, so it easily runs in the background without consuming lots of resources.
how well do these games run inside a VM? Perhaps the answer is to only use the hostOS for those games, and everything else run through your linux distribution? That could limit your exposure considerably.
1) install Windows 7 and set a password for your account.
2) Install all MS Service packs, patches and MSE.
3) Make a Limited user account, and log into it. This is your Kids account
4) Install Chrome for that user, give him a Gmail account to backup settings (in case something does happen to the system) and install Adblock plus with the Easylist filter on it. Set it as the default browser. Hide or disable IE afterwards. This also sandboxes the browser even further and gives him flash player and PDF functionality without having to worrying about updating those.
5) DO NOT INSTALL JAVA!! He doesn't need it, it's full of exploits, and every exploit kit on earth uses it to infect your box! If he needs Java for Minecraft (and seriously this is the only reason to install Java. Anything else say no.) then Install the 64 Bit version and run it from the minecraft executable on Mojang's site. The 64 bit version of Java doesn't work for browsers other than IE 64 (which you uninstalled) so just install that one and update it manually since the clueless idiots at Oracle hasn't figured out how to auto update 64 bit java for some reason..
As for games.
1) install the game as the admin. Try it on his user account. If it works, Great.
2) If that fails or if you just want to simplify setup, use UACTrust to make a shortcut that is pre-trusted. Since it's unlikely WOW or LOL will hack the machine directly, you can use this so he can play the game while the other stuff is user snadboxed.
Other notes:
You said you're letting him use a Lenovo T400. Ban him from using USB devices on the left USB ports unless you want to replace a Board for $300. If he must use USB, Only use the right USB port by the CD-Rom and use a Hub. That port never breaks.
In Soviet Russia, Trojan exploits YOU!
buy or set up a linux firewall, keep the Windows box patched.
There was an unknown error in the submission.
1. (quite obviously)- make sure that non-administrative account is used for daily tasks 2. install all required updates (and set up AV for updating itself) 3. install EMET 3 - its a freeware, you can call it a "DEP on steroids"- its usefull to protect against so-called "0 day exploits" 4. if possible - run those applications within sandbox - there is a great program called "sandboxie" (no, i do not advert for it)- free for most uses, you can buy a license (which is cheap), easy to use.
Thanks for your answer.
We considered Apple because it is my impression that it is more secure (out of the box) than Windows. Also, I believe he can continue to run a number of linux programs on it?
I may be mistaken.
Also, a lot of the "cool kids" (older kids in school) appears to choose Apple laptops. (iPod, iPhone, iPad, iPaid?)...
It's as much about what you install as it is about what you DON'T install.
Don't install Java, or if you do, disable the browser plugins. Don't install the "software" that usually comes bundled with any printer drivers. Don't install anything from Norton.
Don't give the kid an admin account. Don't let him install things without asking. And then, because he won't listen to that, tell him about the common things that claim to be legit, but aren't - "media codecs", cheat software, etc. Windows has gotten secure enough (starting with 2000, then further improving with XP, Vista and 7) that it's now easier to hack the user than the software - so add some defenses to the weak point.
Other than that, you should be fine. Slap Firefox/Chrome on there, install MSE and MBAM, and keep everything up-to-date, and you'll be as good as I am.
Oh, and keep a backup of anything important. If you're like me, you'll need to do a full reformat/reinstall every two years or so, due to either a virus or just a slow system.
A couple problems with what you're doing:
1. Games on a Lenovo?! Lenovo is Chinese for 'shitty laptop company' Their computers are for business, not gaming.
2. Norton? Norton's a scam. Just use Microsoft Security Essentials. Even if you get a virus, who cares? Worst case, reformat, start over.
It's not so complicated.
Thanks for your answer.
Sorry, I did not really appreciate that T400's vary that much.
The T400 I have here, has an Intel Core 2 Duo P9500 @ 2.53 GHz, and a ATI RV620 [Mobility Radeon HD 3400], 4GB of ram, and 120 GB of SSD. The CPU seems to match recommended, and the GPU is somewhere just below minimum?
There is a cost thing here - if he wants more beefy hardware, he must raise the money.
I'm guessing the fact that this got marked flamebait means some people here don't know what a hakintosh is and its not a bad idea. That said, windows security essentials does the trick nicely.
I want a list of atrocities done in your name - Recoil
Yes thanks. It was actually the one we got closest to working, but it failed to start properly. My son told me that it had installed the US version of WoW and that his account (which he uses from school) is european, so it refused to start. Or something like that.
At this point it just seems a whole lot easier to go with Windows.
Remove all other applications from start menu and make it known that if the machine is messed up, it will take you weeks to get to re-imaging it.
Go onto Cowboom or eBay and get a used Mac. Blizzard has great Mac clients and you will not have to worry about the viruses, etc. The upfront cost may be greater but the Total Cost of Ownership will be less. See if you can find a Mac Mini that meets the specs - any one made in 2009 or later will do as they have nvidia graphics.
I maintain a machine much like the one to be used by your son. You are right to give up on trying to get these games working in Wine. Even if you succeed, the next patch might break it. It creates an unreasonable amount of recurring effort, which you can avoid entirely for the cost of an OEM Windows licence, which is really, really cheap in comparison. Sure, this is not what Stallman would say, but then he does not support PCs for a family.
Here are some suggestions:
1. Windows 7 on a new laptop.
2. Install Microsoft Security Essentials. It's free (beer). Don't bother with Norton.
3. Create a regular user account for your son. Ensure the account is not able to modify system files without asking for the admin password. This prevents most of the nasty things malware tries to do. WIndows security is actually really good these days.
4. Order a Blizzard authenticator to go with WoW. This excludes more nasty things that malware might do... just in case!
5. Back up the machine after you install the games but before you hand it over to your son. Use backup software that will generate a disk image like Macrium Reflect Free Edition. Restore this disk image from a live CD (Reflect can create one for you) if your son has any problems. You have to use a full disk image for Windows because restoring an install is not just a matter of copying the files and rerunning update-grub.
6. When working with Windows, use the same patience you have to use when working with an unfamiliar Linux distribution. Don't expect everything to be straightforward or logical, and be pleasantly surprised when it is. The only extra thing you need to beware of, but Linux users do not, is that there are scam sites which offer to "help" you with common problems, e.g. device driver issues, and serve up malware instead of help. Good practice is to research Windows problems on a Linux machine.
You're an immobile computer, remember?
Don't even bother trying to secure the box beyond Microsft Security essentials. For good measure, maybe periodically hop to Trend Micro's site and run Housecall on it (in addition to MSE). But honestly, there's no chance in hell that a PC under the responsibility of an adolescent will come out clean after any material amount of time. He'll be downloading music, videos and games before you know it, and turning your laptop into a petri-dish before you know it.
What do you mean you "couldn't get wow to run on wine"?
WOW has a platinum rating on wine's appdb.
For those of you who don't know, platinum means that absolutely no tweaking is required at all.
If they want to game on wine though, make sure you get an nvidia card. It's the only way to go. Sure ATI/Intel are more open, bla bla, but if gaming's what you want, then it's your only choice.
There's not a chance in hell you get decent enough performance out of a VM for gaming, especially when it comes to 3D accelerated graphics.
no bad that most games need admin to work
NO NO NO. Never put the swapfile on an SSD. An SSD has a limited number of writes available to each cell, which is not true of spinning disks. Nothing will kill an SSD sooner than using it for swap.
Just get plenty of RAM (it's cheap now!) and don't worry about it. Let Windows manage the swap and make sure it's on a spinning disk.
Hail Eris, full of mischief...
E pluribus sanguinem
Surprised I haven't seen this mentioned, but in addition to MSE, Microsoft also offers a second exploit prevention/mitigation tool called EMET http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=29851
I suspect that one of these choices is incorrect. Correct.
Does that T400 have a Windows licence sticker on the bottom of it? If so then you do not need to purchase a new Windows licence. Unless you bought a Lenovo OpenSUSE preinstall ThinkPad it should have that sticker.
Unicode in Slashdot
I play wow on wine, and its really really really easy, stable, and feature complete.
don't know abtout that other game
You can buy Windows 7 now for ~200$. Or you can buy Windows 8 now for ~70$. Or you can buy Windows 8 as digital download in a less than a week for $40.
http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msstore/html/pbpage.Windows_8_Pro
It's up to you, but if you've got a few *NIX machines on your LAN, and know enough to as Slashdot, you can deal with burning a DVD.
I maintain a machine much like the one to be used by your son. You are right to give up on trying to get these games working in Wine. Even if you succeed, the next patch might break it. It creates an unreasonable amount of recurring effort, which you can avoid entirely for the cost of an OEM Windows licence, which is really, really cheap in comparison. Sure, this is not what Stallman would say, but then he does not support PCs for a family.
Here are some suggestions:
1. Windows 7 on a new laptop.
2. Install Microsoft Security Essentials. It's free (beer). Don't bother with Norton.
3. Create a regular user account for your son. Ensure the account is not able to modify system files without asking for the admin password. This prevents most of the nasty things malware tries to do. WIndows security is actually really good these days.
4. Order a Blizzard authenticator to go with WoW. This excludes more nasty things that malware might do... just in case!
5. Back up the machine after you install the games but before you hand it over to your son. Use backup software that will generate a disk image like Macrium Reflect Free Edition. Restore this disk image from a live CD (Reflect can create one for you) if your son has any problems. You have to use a full disk image for Windows because restoring an install is not just a matter of copying the files and rerunning update-grub.
6. When working with Windows, use the same patience you have to use when working with an unfamiliar Linux distribution. Don't expect everything to be straightforward or logical, and be pleasantly surprised when it is. The only extra thing you need to beware of, but Linux users do not, is that there are scam sites which offer to "help" you with common problems, e.g. device driver issues, and serve up malware instead of help. Good practice is to research Windows problems on a Linux machine.
It really is not difficult.
The above suggestion is good. I would do a couple things differently:
1. Windows 7 on a new laptop.
For gaming purposes I would recommend a desktop, with a discrete video card. It does not need to be a high end (expensive) system, but the additional performance from a non-mobile version of one of the current generation processors, and of a discrete video card, will be noticeable.
5. Back up the machine after you install the games but before you hand it over to your son. Use backup software that will generate a disk image like Macrium Reflect Free Edition. Restore this disk image from a live CD (Reflect can create one for you) if your son has any problems. You have to use a full disk image for Windows because restoring an install is not just a matter of copying the files and rerunning update-grub.
Windows 7 included backup is quite capable. It can make full system images (bare metal) as well as pretty much any other type of backup you desire, either on demand or on a schedule. Recovery can be done from within windows, or by booting from the windows install disk, choosing repair, and selecting the option to restore from backup. If you only do a full system backup, remember to make a new one every once in a while, as it can be tedious to have to apply a long series of updates to an out-of-date backup.
"You want to know how to help your kids? Leave them the fuck alone." -George Carlin
The Windows license on a Lenovo T400 is going to be for Windows Vista, unless you ordered one of the corporate oriented ones with XP. It will also be a pain in the ass to get that Windows partition working if it ever breaks. You don't get real install media from Lenovo, just their recovery program--which sucks and easily can break.
Just ignoring the whole thing, buying Windows 7, and installing that is absolutely the right thing to do. It's bad enough he's being force to have a Windows laptop in the house; saying he should have a Vista install is going way too far.
All Vista jokes aside, one of the best (only?) things Microsoft did with Vista was getting rid of that Home/Pro/HomeOEM/ProOEM differentiation bullshit out of the installation media and only differentiating it by the licence key. The advantage is that you can use any Vista install disk with your key.
As someone who uses Vista for my Wintendo partition it's not so bad once you disable the indexing, aero and don't install an antivirus or itunes. I don't think it's worth giving Microsoft another $90 for a marginal improvement that could better be spent on another game or better graphics card. (Then again, I would suffer Wine bugs to save $90).
Unicode in Slashdot
Windows 8 is actually Windows NT 6.2. Vista was the dreaded "dot-zero" release (Windows NT 6.0), with Windows 7 being the famed "SP1" (Windows NT 6.1) and Windows 8 being technically "SP2".
who cares if someone wipes the whole drive or captures every key stroke of a WoW gaming session. it's a gaming computer.
I used to be an AVG user and it was my default setup when others asked me for help, but it's gotten bloat-y, slow and upgrade-naggy, and MSE does what it covers. Right now I'm MSE, Spybot Search & Destroy, and Firefox with noscript (among other things). I've got Malware Bytes as well for my kid's machine.
LITTLE GIRL: But which cookie will you eat FIRST? C. MONSTER: Me think you have misconception of cookie-eating process.
Other specs on the system are borderline bottom for barely meeting the requirements. Don't subject your kids to that. Get them a new computer with Windows 7 preinstalled. For virus protection, Microsoft Security Essentials does fine (free with Windows 7, though it is a separate download).
You may prefer Linux, and it may even work for you, and for you that is fine. But we live in a Windows world - you are doing your kids a serious disservice by not giving them Windows exposure now. They'll need that experience in 10 years when they are trying to get a job - any job - that isn't Linux development.
If you are getting him a new laptop, make it a MacBook Pro. He will have a great OS, that will still run WoW and LoL, and can still have Windows in a VM or dual-boot situation if he wants/needs it. And since OS X marketshare is continually going up, you are giving your son truly useful experience going forward, because with my scenario, he can actually place all THREE major OSes on his résumé. Now that's useful!
You can install Kaspersky Internet Security on that Windows machine, it works wonders and it has a game mode like most quality antivirus software that won't annoy you with firewall warnings and such. I would actually recommend that you get a mac mini for the kid, but since new games do come out and you never know what's going to run on what, macs can be limited because of available gaming software.
http://preyproject.com/
Casteism
Don't give the users admin rights, ensure the machine is patched and runs virus protection.
I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
Seriously. Considering reinstalling windows on a biweekly basis? For a 12 year old kids world of warcraft PC?
We're not talking trade secrets or even your household finances being in the clear as the result of an insecure PC. The insecure PC, which is behind a router and only has connections to assumed properly secured Linux boxes. Just install a copy of AVG Free and the free version of Malware Bytes and be done with it.
If you still don't think that's secure enough to your liking, buy a copy of DeepFreeze - once the PC is in a good working condition, Deepfreeze will restore it to that condition everytime the machine is restarted, cleansing it of any and all changes since the last restart. Probably a bit overkill as well.
Really, just make sure the rest of your computers are secure and let the kid play. And while you're at it, buy another Windows PC for your other kid to use and get familiar with. They're soon going to need to be familiar with computers besides the ones that you've carefully configured at your house, be it in their schools or in their future workplaces. Unless they're going to be Linux developers or what not, i would say that you're doing them a disservice by not letting them have access to the OS they'll likely use more than any other once they fly from the nest. And yes, part of that is learning what to do when their Windows PC gets a virus or otherwise malfunctions.
Again, shouldn't be any problem - sounds like the rest of your network is secure, so a single machie running amok is still essentially sandboxed off from the being able to harm any other machines on your network.
So get the kid an iMac, and use that.
Ok, so the Mobility Radeon HD3400 is slightly better than the GMA 4500, enough that it does technically make the cut for meeting WoW's minimum requirements, but it is still an underperforming, dated chipset. Performance in WoW will still be sub-par. And yes, I have first-hand experience with the HD3400.
Seriously, do your kids a favor and get them a new computer with Windows 7 (or even Windows 8) preinstalled. A $500 desktop machine will do just fine, and won't spoil them in the "beefy" category.
Intelligent responses welcome, flames will be met with marshmallows.
Just stick the windows machine on a DMZ, and firewall the hell out of it. If you're worried about security, I'm going to have to assume you're talking about the security of the rest of your network. Anyone with a load of linux boxes lying about the house should be able to run a DMZ.
And run windoze in a virtual machine. If something goes wrong (And it will), all you need to do is reload a fresh copy of the VM
So given the fact that you acknowledge that you're not even as good at windows, why would then jump to windows?
Think about that logic for a moment. "I know about A a lot, and B less. B is supposed to work with my target application. Therefore, I choose B". ????
You would have gotten actual responses on just about any linux forums if you posted anything about what happened where people more knowledgeable than you or I can fix this, or tried using Beryl or the appropriate installer to make sure graphics binaries are even up to date in the first place. Or try using normal ubuntu instead of kubuntu or an actual debian build. K is better graphically but can cause issues with games.
You could get the kid a laptop which can run wow for almost the same money as you'd pay to simply get a copy of windows that can do what you'd expect it to. I don't mean this as "you suck", but as "there are a lot more options out there".
I try to keep this short... #1 The Lenovo T400 will not run the World of Warcraft or the League of Legends. It doesn't have the needed hardware to do so. Check the recommended hardware requirements for both of these games, and make sure the computer you'll give him has a decent CPU, enough RAM and, this is important, a good GPU. Your problems with World of Warcraft and WINE probably were caused by the insufficient hardware. #2 Windows installations these days are theoretically pretty safe to use. But you still want to install anti-virus software such as F-Secure, or Microsoft Security Essentials. You can fill up the Windows with tons of free software including the browser and the necessary utils. It's important that you at least install Mozilla Firefox or Google Chrome. I recommend Google Chrome because it comes with it's own Flash, and is updated automatically without user interaction, and because it has way better user interface than what Firefox has. #3 Also get a disc image tool. I know from experience that after everything has been set, it takes maybe two months and the kid might make the system go into such condition, that it will not boot up, or might require huge clean up operation. HDD cloning makes it easy to restore the system in case of a failure. #4 Give your kid freedoms! Let him experience and experiment with all kinds of software and operating environments. Make him understand that nothing he does, will break the system. It's also important to teach that if the system breaks down, he has to be able to restore it by himself. And don't let him use the HDD image. Make him do it the complete Windows installation process. #5 To fight against Blizzard account hacking, make sure your kids use Blizzard authenticator.
I try to keep this short...
#1 The Lenovo T400 will not run the World of Warcraft or the League of Legends. It doesn't have the needed hardware to do so. Check the recommended hardware requirements for both of these games, and make sure the computer you'll give him has a decent CPU, enough RAM and, this is important, a good GPU. Your problems with World of Warcraft and WINE probably were caused by the insufficient hardware.
#2 Windows installations these days are theoretically pretty safe to use. But you still want to install anti-virus software such as F-Secure, or Microsoft Security Essentials. You can fill up the Windows with tons of free software including the browser and the necessary utils. It's important that you at least install Mozilla Firefox or Google Chrome. I recommend Google Chrome because it comes with it's own Flash, and is updated automatically without user interaction, and because it has way better user interface than what Firefox has.
#3 Also get a disc image tool. I know from experience that after everything has been set, it takes maybe two months and the kid might make the system go into such condition, that it will not boot up, or might require huge clean up operation. HDD cloning makes it easy to restore the system in case of a failure.
#4 Give your kid freedoms! Let him experience and experiment with all kinds of software and operating environments. Make him understand that nothing he does, will break the system. It's also important to teach that if the system breaks down, he has to be able to restore it by himself. And don't let him use the HDD image. Make him do it the complete Windows installation process.
#5 To fight against Blizzard account hacking, make sure your kids use Blizzard authenticator.
Yes. It's amazing how often psi complains about vulnerable software while the applications own update mechanism is still silent. It is often faster than windows update to report that it is time to fire up windows update manually in order to search for new windows patches.
Notorious slow update alerts from the applications own update mechanism also include Java, Adobe flash, air and reader, firefox (patching fast, but the patch appears too late). PSI often offer patches directly without the infamous "bonus software" like search bars and security scan software that is kindly preselected to slip it under the radar for the impatient user that is trained to click "continue" all the time when he installs anything.
Since psi informs about patches that fix the holes left wide open by the software manufacturers own notifications mechanisms (if there are any) and since they are trusted by heise.de psi should be included into the security precautions. There are similar programs, but unless they have been recommended by a really trustworthy source, I do not trust them. I am always very cautious when it cames to install software that somehow "improves" windows, so I did not use psi unless heise.de recommended them. I do not know how well known it is in other parts of the world, but psi or a trustworthy alternative are essential in order to stand a chance against the update hell.
1 - Changing the region for the WoW install is easy, but does have the potential to be a little time/bandwidth consuming. See the blue post here: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/5207771231
2 - Your idea about keeping an image for a fortnightly restore is a recipe for security holes, unless you're happy constantly repatching and upgrading everything at the same time. I prefer to keep a list of what I need to install along with any install media I need to do a clean reinstall of the essentials any time malware strikes (which is very rarely) or performance is a bit off (which is a bit more often), letting me get back to a nice clean state where I can reinstall anything else I'm using at the moment and recover my data, usually tidying it all up in the process. I also do an incremental image every couple of weeks in case of emergencies. My list currently looks like this, in order of installation:
Avast Antivirus, Anti Malwarebytes, MS Updates, Firefox (plugins: adblock plus, https everywhere), Adobe (Air, Reader, Flash), CutePDF, Silverlight, VLC Player, Java, BatteryBar (if laptop), OpenOffice (or whatever)
First, you switched to linux at a time when Windows as immature, unreliable, and insecure. Times have changed.
The biggest issue with Windows today is yesterday's prejudices. People still assume windows is not secure and requires gobs of software to protect it.
Windows 7 is secure, I have been running it for years without anything more than Windows Security Essentials running in the background. I found most other forms of anti-virus software, both retail and free, to be worse than the trojans they are trying to protect me from, robbing performance and doing crap in the background against my will.
Also, stop trying to do things cheap. Today's computers are 5 - 10 times cheaper than they were 10 years ago. Rather than trying to retrofit some old laptop you had laying around with an "expensive" copy of Windows 7, just go out and buy your kid a $400 windows laptop with Windows 7 already installed. Chances are it will work better and your kid will appreciate newer hardware then some junk you pulled out a closet. Take all that money you have saved running Linux on old computers and drop a little on a cheap laptop.
So, rather than trying to promote the FUD that you assume is associated with Windows today, realize that millions of people are running Windows 7 without having to invest 100's of hours locking it down. You assume, because you have used Linux for 12 years, that it is necessary to have to invest time to set up something, this is just not the case anymore. Bottom line is this is a laptop for your kid, so unless your 12 year old is going to be doing online banking and doing taxes, even if the laptop gets infected or taken over with virus there is no information of any relevance to leak out. Wipe and repeat.
If you are worried about what your kid can access while online, than that comes down to parenting rather than software. No reason why your 12 year old should be locked away in his room accessing content online, promote the idea that in order to use a computer kids should be in a freely accessible area of the house by all family members, that is the rules, you are the parent, set them.
I haven't thought of anything clever to put here, but then again most of you haven't either.
Security on a kid's computer = (1 part education) + (1 part technology) + (1 part fear) I think the education and technology solutions provided in the previous posts are all adequate. For my son I add the fear element. Let your son know that you can have the system take a screenshot at anytime to email you what he is doing.