Slashdot Mirror
Secession Petitions Flood White House Website
First time accepted submitter RNLockwood writes "Political.com reports that several petitions to secede from the Union have been created at the White House site, We The People, for many states; all since Obama's re-election. Texas and Louisiana lead the list with Texas needing only 7,000 more signatures to qualify for a White House response, probably less now as more Americans have become aware of the petitions. It would be interesting to see a comparison done of these petitions and the Post Election Racist Tweets Map."
..you'd find these states well ranked.
Secession is an economically unviable option. If you want copious analyses ask the Quebec'ers.
We in the US seem to have a hard time admitting when we are wrong. Mitt was a dreadful choice for a conservative presidential candidate. Obama's winning the election was not a sign that the poor Texans are oppressed. They simply picked a moderate who had to pivot to the right of Rick Perry to win the primaries, and then back to the center to have a chance in the final election. I don't think anyone could have done that job any better than Mitt did, but even with 3 to 1 outspending of their opponents it wasn't enough. I sent my $100 to Buddy Roemer to try to get an honest man into the race, and honesty lost.
So, please quit your whining and next time pick an actuall conservative. Pick someone with a tax plan that adds up, low spending, little war-lust, and who understands what a disaster the "personhood" amendment would be, and then you'll have a race.
Response:
No.
I'm conflicted whether Obama's response should be:
or
A Federation of Independent Republics STates
No
Quick! Someone make a "Let Texas and Louisiana Secede" petition!
Blow it out your ass. We survived Bush, you can survive Obama. Grow the fuck up.
So which is it, "a flood" or "several"? I realise there's probably an xkcd for this, but floods and "several" seem to be two different extremes to me. I wonder how many are submitted in the average month as well. In the UK we can also submit online petitions to a government website, they're mostly "bring corporal/capital punishment", "make region X independent" and "say the UK government loves Bieber". Doesn't mean any of these things are likely to happen, or indeed a good idea.
Please consider this account deleted, I just can't be bothered with the spam anymore.
They petitioned the White House to secede from the Union...
Being a resident of New England, I'm tired of paying for their highways and such while they accuse us here as being Un-American.
For fucks sake. Leave already.
What I found especially amusing was the tea-tard messages claiming people would high-tail it to Canada if Obama got re-elected. Yeah, the country next door with single-payer health insurance, decent social security, more gun regulation, etc.
Go. Go to Canada.
--
BMO
29,025 and presumably climbing. I say, great. Good riddance.
I'm not American, but it seems to me that there is a growing geographical dichotomy between the left leaning states and the right leaning states. Some of the old confederate states esp. Texas seem to be moving more and more to the right as the coastal states seem to be moving more to the left.
The left states seem to be moving closer to the Europe and the rest of the world in terms of politics. That is being less religious, pro-choice, pro-gay, anti-war, pro-environment, etc. While the right leaning states seem to be rallying around the Church.
While I realize it is not a possibility anytime soon, but in 100 years could we see the return of the Confederate States of America?
Comment removed based on user account deletion
So succession = racism? Does the OP work for MSNBC and Chris "Tingles" Matthews?
A fundamental disagreement with the government policies does not automatically equal racism but of course you are free to perpetuate that myth...
"I say we take off, nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure."
Derp is derp, and insinuating that people who don't like Obama must be racist is a mindless of a cliche of derp as derp gets. Divisive language like that used by the story submitter is a perfect example of how /not/ to bring the country back together after a nasty presidential election.
Remove Texas and bring in Puerta Rico so we don't have to change the flags.
Look, I hate the way democracy is handled, and I'm as white as most Texans (though no where near as tall), but this kind of thing doesn't just make your entire country look foolish. Quebec's done that to my country for a while. This makes your country look like 14th century racists. It's not even modern racism.
Haven't you guys had civil wars over this shit already? Aren't there movies and books and statues and abstract rail-roads about all of this?
Way to remind everyone that the USoA isn't a country, it's just a collection of independent states. Quebec doesn't want to "leave" Canada, they want to start their own country. Texas wants to simply leave.
Quite frankly, it's embarassing to share a land-mass with you guys. You do know that most of the world can't distinguish Canadians from United Statians, so they call us all Americans, you know, since we share that land mass known as the Americas. The British are going to mock us!
Good thing you still have the right to bare arms. Even if the British aren't coming, I guess the blacks sure are.
Wow. Little brother to big brother, grow up.
Texas could maybe pull it off, Louisiana no... The only industry we have here is the Prison industry and the gov here is corrupt top to bottom. Those that aren't in prison are on food stamps. Its an all around crappy state... Every day I wake up I ask my self WTF am I doing here? "Louisiana's incarceration rate is nearly five times Iran's, 13 times China's and 20 times Germany's.... A majority of Louisiana inmates are housed in for-profit facilities, which must be supplied with a constant influx of human beings"
Whichever side you agree with, you think the other 50% of the country are wrong.
They're not going to change their views.
We have no way to go forward. Bipartisanship is a joke; liberals like methodology, conservatives like results. There is no compatibility.
Further, the liberal side is mostly women, minorities, homosexuals/transgenders and college students. The conservative side is mostly white men.
It's time to either beat down one side, or divide up the country so we all get what we want.
1861's (and 1776's) solution was states' rights.
Wonder what we'll pick, and how bad the ensuing war will be.
Futurist Traditionalism
He seceded from the main thread.
rewriting history since 2109
Per the article (and submitter, it's politico.com not "political.com"), there more than 10,000 petitions each for Texas and Louisiana secession. Is this even close to a flood by web standards? Just because something happens on the web, does that necessarily make it "news for nerds?" Perhaps it's the inflammatory "racist" link that got the editors' attention. There are plenty of blog sites for "everybody in the South is an idiot racist", why do we have to add Slashdot to the list?
Sure, the general population can push for secession. If enough of them push, maybe the state reps will take them seriously. But in order to secede, it needs to either be agreed to across the board (which I cannot see happening), or the state in question has to have a big enough army to defend itself against the rest of their former country. If the state can't defend itself against an invasion, there's absolutely no point in even trying to secede.
Bunch of malcontents who have been lapping up far too much of Faux News' spin. They'll be dragged back down to earth really fast, if it gets to the point where it even looks like their wishes will come to fruition.
In modern times it's a lot easier to have an army that can deter invasion. You just need a handful of nukes. Since the US is a nuclear power the ability of a state to enforce it's secession is a very different game than it was the last time it was tried. It'll depend a lot on what kind of defection rate they get from nuclear assets when they declare independence, and not nearly as much on the ratio of national guard to federal army.
You're assuming the rebels won't have predator's and won't have nukes. You can joke all you want, but this is a serious sign of a philosophical divide in our nation and those weapons you think will be in the hands of the Federal Government may not end up there should a civil war envelope our once great nation.
>Tennessee's a third world country without federal fucking dollars
East Tennessee is a third world country *even with* federal fucking dollars.
--
BMO
The Texas petition needs only 7,000 more signatures to trigger an official White House response.
... No.
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
Most of the signatures for each state are from people signing every petition (even if they don't live there). NJ has 161 signatures from people who live there out of 960 (determined by my unscientific "load page really long and use find" method). If they wanted to really make waves, they should introduce legislation at the state level directly instead of pussyfooting around signing petitions that will get a response of "asked and answered in 1865".
There is still plenty of room left on the no fly list.
803,849 people in Puerto Rico voted to have Puerto Rico become a state compared to 10,000 petitions each in Texas and Louisaiana for secession. I think America will be fine.
The feds can't afford to pay anyhow. They will just print money, which any independent state can also do.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
I seem to recall any criticism of Bush met with "Love it or leave it". Now that the tables have turned, we see what little pussies these rednecks really are. Like middle school bullies who can't take a punch without going bawling to the principal.
If Slashdot were chemistry it would look like this:Cadaverine
They got the crap kicked out of them last time they tried. We all know they want their own country were they can stop black people from voting and they can beat gay people. However, we wouldn't really be granting freedom if we allowed them to engage in that conduct, would we?
They can just go back to whining "The south will rise again!" and wait twenty years for their voting block means nothing.
I think the idea of secession is an absurdity, and to suggest it immediately marks one whose political input is meaningless.
Nevertheless, the summary's implication secessionist talk as racist is equally weaksauce.
To suggest that only racists would react to an overweening Federal government that cheerfully violates any inconvenient statute without hesitation, one which has run roughshod over the clearly-stated limits to Federal power set forth in the US Constitution, and whose constituent elements have both ignored their actual duties (budget? Who bothers with a budget?) and colluded to deliberately circumvent the system of checks and balances set out by the founding fathers (War Powers Act? Who needs such a thing?) is suggesting really that white people are somehow the only one capable of recognizing the disastrous course our country has been on for at least 60 years, and that's fairly patronizing if not outright racist itself.
-Styopa
When Clinton was Elected there was crying about Secession from Conservatives, like all of Texas. When Bush was elected there was crying about Secession from Liberals , like all of California. Just Get Over It, you Lost. Try again next time. Your Princess is In Another Castle.
And I bet every blue state receives more than they pay...
Karma: Bad
Reasonably capable general is on the market :-)
This is an argument that I absolutely despise. "X isn't as important as Y, so don't bother me until Y^2 happens."
You do realize that it only takes one serious whackadoo to take some pop-shots at the presidential cavalcade to make the direction of the world change, correct? Further, do you realize that this funny little petition is the top-side of some real, and very confusing, anger in the country?
Stop being a negative douche. By the time that something like this gets to the governor or state legislature, some "random retard" will have already taken the wind out of their sails by blowing something/someone up.
In other words - stupid things are generally the leading edge of something more serious.
this time the North has nukes. sit down, shut up, and grow up, folks. stop being Kluxing idiots.
if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
Who says that not the rebells will have the predator drones? ...
If a new civil war breaks out the firs causalities will be on the Navy Ships where people are taking sides and try to get the ships under controll. Same for air fields and air crafts, but well, have not many in the USA as 9/11 showed
However I guess missible bases and submarines will have well elected crews so that it is unlikely they bombard the soil of america, regardless what 'political side' they choose.
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
You'd lose that Bet.
California, known Blue State, pays 60 billion more than it gets back. Connecticut, New York, New Jersey, Minnesota also belong on the list.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_taxation_and_spending_by_state
I would not doube that there are probably non-Texan citizens from other states petitioning for Texas to secede.
Although personally, I think it'd be about the best thing in the world if the USA were to split apart into North half/South half or something, since OBVIOUSLY this country has some severe agreement issues, and always has ever since the first days of the USA.
We could call the countries North America and South America. Then we'd have a North America in North America and a South America in North America, but neither a North America nor a South America in South America.
And I thought the whole Washington/Washington DC thing was unnecessarily confusing.
We probably do better if we let Texas leave. just sayin...
Be seeing you...
Your quite right but wrong about how you get called.
If an european says 'american' he 99.9% means a citizen of the USA. For you guys we have a more proper name: Canadian. And we use it. Or Mexican or Peruian etc. ...
Just because the greatest nation on earth has no idea how punny it is, that does not mena the rest of the world has no idea how the two continents north and south america look like.
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
I'd like to see it compared to an updated map of states' net federal taxes.
http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2012/02/is-your-state-a-net-giver-or-taker-of-federal-taxes/
You sir are a complete ass. Ruby Ridge was a tragedy that should never have happened.
Quite a few people in New Orleans, LA, did not survive Bush and Katrina and the "heckuva good job" that Brownie did with FEMA in the aftermath of that hurricane.
Is the only way to be sure.
Religion: The greatest weapon of mass destruction of all time
(Source : Comments section of - http://thehill.com/blogs/hillicon-valley/technology/267413-texas-secession-petition-gains-enough-signatures-for-white-house-response) Don't know the origin of this, but I liked it. "Dear Red States We're ticked off at your Neanderthal attitudes and politics and we've decided we're leaving. We in California intend to form our own country and we're taking the other Blue States with us. In case you aren't aware that includes New York, Hawaii, Oregon, Washington, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, Illinois and the rest of the Northeast. We believe this split will be beneficial to the nation and especially to the people of the new country of The Enlightened States of America (E.S.A). To sum up briefly: You get Texas , Oklahoma and all the slave states.We get stem cell research and the best beaches.We get Andrew Cuomo and Elizabeth Warren. You get Bobby Jindal and Todd Akin.We get the Statue of Liberty. You get OpryLand.We get Intel and Microsoft. You get WorldCom.We get Harvard. You get those ignorant fools at Ole' Miss.We get 85 percent of America 's venture capital and entrepreneurs. You get Alabama .We get two-thirds of the tax revenue. You get to make the red states pay their fair share.
Since our aggregate divorce rate is 22 percent lower than the Christian Coalition's, we get a bunch of happy families. You get a bunchof single moms.With the Blue States in hand we will have firm control of 80% of the country's fresh water, more than 90% of the pineapple and lettuce, 92%of the nation's fresh fruit, 95% of America's quality wines (you can serve French wines at state dinners) 90% of all cheese, 90 percent of the high tech industry, most of the US low sulfur coal, all livingredwoods, sequoias and condors, all the Ivy and Seven Sister schools plus Harvard, Yale, Stanford, Cal Tech and MIT.With the Red States you will have to cope with 88% of all obese Americans and their projected health care costs, 92% of all US mosquitoes, nearly 100% of the tornadoes, 90% of the hurricanes, 99%of all Southern Baptists, virtually 100% of all televangelists, RushLimbaugh, Bob Jones University, Clemson and the University of Georgia.We get Hollywood and Yosemite, thank you.38% of those in the Red states believe Jonah was actually swallowed by a whale, 62% believe life is sacred unless we're discussing the deathpenalty or gun laws, 44% say that evolution is only a theory, 53% that Saddam was involved in 9/11 and 61% of you crazy bastards believe you are people with higher morals then we lefties.We're taking the good weed too. You can have that crap they grow in Mexico.Sincerely,A Citizen of the Enlighten
+1 if I had mod points. The question is: where does one go for nerdly news, now that /. has let its standards slip even lower?
Just how much are you willing to wager on that?
http://content.ksg.harvard.edu/blog/jeff_frankels_weblog/2010/03/31/red-states-blue-states-and-the-distribution-of-federal-spending/
http://www.politifact.com/texas/statements/2011/apr/22/rachel-maddow/msnbc-host-rachel-maddow-says-texas-routinely-rece/
Is 1563649 a prime number?
Anyone with half a brain I know of didn't vote.
I didn't vote, and none of my friends voted.
This two party system is only going to bring more welfare, poverty and despair and finally a dictatorship to control it all just like North Korea.
I use to wonder how the German people could stand by and watch the transformation of their country when Hitler came to power and enacted citizen execution laws like the USA just recently enacted along with the bull crap for travel....(i.e. Papers please.).
We have all that now, and it just keeps getting worse.
Nobody is doing nothing about the banks robbing everything, billions go missing and nobody goes to jail.
It is out of control, and it is all going to end very badly.
If any of you have half a brain and actually read history, you should be making plans to leave the country, seriously because this isn't going to get better it is going to get far far worse.
Especially when all of the criminal banking activity comes home to roost.
-Hack
Got Geometrodynamics? Awe, too hard to figure out? Too bad.
Asking the feds if we can secede is like asking a burglar if we can opt out. This is more of a publicity stunt than a real attempt.
But if it increases people's awareness of secession and its benefits, then it's a good thing. I'd love to see the US split into 20 or more independent countries. It would be much harder for a single state or federation of states to run around the world killing and destroying the way the US does. It would also be easier for people to flee from an autocratic regime to a more liberal state (by the actual definition of liberal, not the modern political one).
Even in "red" states their are "blue" areas. Usually these are located in urban areas where people are more exposed to differing ideas. Maybe this is an evolution challenge? Which human will prove superior, the one that can accomodate the needs of others or the one who can't?
Time is what keeps everything from happening all at once.
Hope and change you can believe in.
Self Deportation
No social security taken out of each pay check? I think that is exactly the sort of thing they want.
They will likely want to sue (in an international court) for all their social security contributions back.
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
Why does opposing Obama so much that you don't want to be a part of the US anymore have to have something to do with race? I'm sure this is the case for some (maybe more than some), but I would disagree with almost everything that man does and stands for, whether he was white, black, or purple polka dot.
Because Predator Drones are made in San Diego, California.
Linux O Muerte!
As most likely to secede?
Convenient how everyone gives a pass to the Democratic governor who didn't do her job which prevented the Feds from doing theirs.
Secession is not legal under our constitition. What IS legal is revolution. So if a state wants to start a revolution and fight against our military, more power to them.
How to we mod an entire article as "Flamebait" or "troll"? Because, you know, disagreeing with a black president doesn't automatically make you a racist. When a black president wins an election there's an uptick in racist comments? You don't say... who'd have thought the racists would say more stupid stuff when a minority achieved something? Obama won the election, there's no need to this "racism is the only reason anyone wouldn't vote for him" nonsense anymore. It was bullshit before the election and it's bullshit now. I didn't vote for him because of his policies, not his ethnicity... I didn't vote for Mit either... but I really do hate Mormons. You get to pick your religion after all...
Good thing you still have the right to bare arms.
Canadians have the right to 'bare' arms. Americans have the right to bear arms.
I can mend the break of day, heal a broken heart, and provide temporary relief to nymphomaniacs.
Greetings and Salutations;
I have not looked at ALL of them, but, I have looked at several, as this came up on a FB posting a bit ago. One very interesting thing I noted was that at the time, a vast majority of the signers of the petition were NOT from the state supposedly wanting to leave. Another point is that I do not think that any such actions should be viable, unless a super-majority - say, 85% - of the population votes for it.
To me, this is is the action of a small minority of cry-baby deniers who cannot accept the fact that a majority of the voters in the US felt that, even with his flaws and failures, President Obama is putting America onto a positive path that will lead to an improved life for all of us.
Regards
Dave Mundt
YAB - http://blog.beemandave.com/
Texas has far more of the Mexican border than any other state. If they become an independent nation they will no longer get money from the US government to patrol and defend that border. On top of that, they'll then likely need to keep people from illegally leaving via the northern border...
Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyqzPu5pX6U&t=3m10s
Can we have it back please...
"GET / HTTP/1.0" 200 51230 "-" "Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; Setec Astronomy)"
Not ashamed, just clear. The people don't actually agree on anything overall. It's a tentative union at best -- apparently.
Seriously, let the states go that want to go.
HOWEVER, they need to return to the union all of our goods.
In addition, they must take their portion of the debt based on per capitia, UNLESS a president came from their state. Then they should get whatever % of the debt that president contributed. So, Texas would get just under 2/3 of the debt.
Now, that is fair.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Native Texan, here. I don't support Secession by any means, but at least read the petition before you label us all as racists.
The summary doesn't make any mention of Obama or Race, and is instead about things like the NDAA, the TSA, the Patriot Act, etc. While I doubt it would have appeared (and gotten nearly so many votes) had Romney won the election, I think the vast majority of Slashdotters would actually agree with most of the listed grievances (whether or not one thinks the stated motivations are the only ones).
No way! Why should we change? They're the ones who suck.</office_space>
That's going to cause a little confusion. Mind if we call the new country "The United States of America" to keep it clear?</monty_python>
Any sufficiently unpopular but cohesive argument is indistinguishable from trolling.
Oh, certainly that's all true. Myself included. But I can't imagine that going it on your own would make things any better. That's just not a valid solution. Making the entire thing just straight crazy.
But I'll tell you what would work. You can get your Texan friends to all agree.
You should join Canada.
Can't even agree on capital punishment. There's no uniform education, no uniform science, no uniform anything. About the only things that are nation-wide (aside from insurance companies of course) are the military, the fbi, and the cia.
(: I was hoping someone would notice that!
Don't give Texas away. Sell it to Mexico.
This sounds to me like a reactionary statement that may be fueled by media hyperbole and exaggeration. Have we really thrown out the constitution? Remember that the US Constitution is a living document and was far from perfect at its inception. I have lots of respect for it but do not worship it. I'd like to tell you to actually read it but I'm ashamed to say that I myself have not done so. I've read some parts of it and found that it's actually very readable and not affected much by "legalese" so I plan to read more of it in the future. I'm just trying to say that going to the source sometimes helps de-fuse our emotional triggers that are abused by the propaganda of our day.
Our tax burden is not crippling. Our standard of living continues to improve. Lifespans are improving. Our income tax rates are lower than most developed countries and our corporate tax rates are on a par with others. Government revenue has been between 15 and 20% of GDP since the 1940's, and in the past 4 years it's gone down and is closer to 15%.
There are a lot of political issues today that I'd love to be able to correct, but I don't think everything is "broken." What I most want is more education in propaganda analysis (deconstruction -- see for example http://propagandacritic.com/), and less two-party partisan nonsense. These are both problems as old as our country. Yes, corporate lobbyists are another way of spelling "corruption" but this too is nothing new. The national debt and CO2 emissions are serious problems that are new to the past few decades, and they both frighten me a little, but they are complex problems that will need to be solved in an intelligent manner without reactionary thought.
And finally, as many people pointed out above, these succession petitions are far from representative of the majority opinion. There's a massive gap between a signed petition (to let off steam mostly) and finding that these states want to actually secede.
Sharkman67 is correct. And I say this as a Seattle area lefty, Ruby Ridge was a massive cluster fuck by the BATF assisted by the US Marshals. Weaver was framed. Read up on what really happened.
-- I have a private email server in my basement.
Further, the liberal side is mostly women, minorities, homosexuals/transgenders and college students. The conservative side is mostly white men.
No, actually. A solid majority of white women voted for Romney. Also, while virtually nobody black voted for Romney, a very large number of other non-white citizens did - each category, it was around 1/3rd.
http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/johncassidy/2012/11/why-white-women-voted-for-romney.html
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/elections/2012-exit-poll
Please help metamoderate.
You're right. It's absolutely miraculous how everyone is getting more than they pay in...
Two of my imaginary friends reproduced once
I forgot about that angle. So to reiterate. Please, please do secede.
Two of my imaginary friends reproduced once
What the Seperatists [as I am now calling them] should do is:
* Find a better country that fulfills all of their political, economic and social needs and desires. I'm sure for many of these fine folks there is something in the Middle East, Northern Africa or Eastern Europe that qualifies.
* Pack their bags
* Renounce their U.S. Citizenship.
I see no cause that Americans should drag down these good folk with our democratic ways. Secession is utterly unnecessary.
It's true no man is an island, but if you take a bunch of dead guys and tie 'em together, they make a good raft.
They don't have taxes in lots of places. Nor any other hallmark of civilization.
I only work freelance at the moment. I about as much in taxes as I would working for anyone else, the difference being that I don't see the payroll taxes my employer has to pay. Perhaps I pay more this way -- so it goes. What the exactly is wrong with paying taxes? I don't pay for any of the code I use: someone else wrote it. I don't pay for clean air, food, and water: someone else passed laws for me. I don't pay for the liberties my society affords me: someone else died for those.
I spent a couple years in Costa Rica lately. It was beautiful, people were happy, the government was largely ineffective. The rivers had untreated sewage in them. Criminals went unpunished -- commit murder and you'd spend like, at least a day in jail. If there was such thing as an electrical code no one had heard of it. The country's Supreme Court equivalent had mandated wheelchair access to public buildings a few years back, and you probably don't need this reporter to tell you its efficacy.
You don't like paying taxes? Fine. There are plenty of places where you don't have to. You don't want to pay taxes, but still want the civilization that goes with them? Well, I can only really suggest living extraterrestrially.
Those who advocate genocide deserve every protection afforded by law, and none afforded by common human decency.
Agreed and well said.
B) Eliminate all the stupid users. This is frowned upon by society.
Pick someone with a tax plan that adds up, low spending, little war-lust, and who understands what a disaster the "personhood" amendment would be, and then you'll have a race.
Someone like that would be branded a screaming liberal by the Tea Partiers and Fox News - and never get the nomination. You need to start your cure a few paces back from that position.
Clean your house.
Ditch the Fox news. Dump the Tea Party. Stop allowing these fundamentalists to tell you what's what. Take your party back. Push for your values (the good ones) like small government. No political party that wants to criminalize abortions can possibly with a straight face tell you that they are for small government.
Stop talking about rape. Just stop it.
Embrace diversity. There is more to the world than 50-something Caucasian southern Baptists. You want to win? Start by representing America, not just your favorite part of it. And by that I don't mean "fake it to get votes", I mean tell the other half of America how you can change the world for the better for them.
And pick better role models. Bill O'Reilly, Sarah Palin, Ted Nugent, and Rush Limbaugh are all morons. Sorry, but they are. And we've got Neil deGrasse Tyson, Rachel Maddow, Jon Stewart, and Bill Maher. Find some intelligent people for your side. Start with Colin Powell and build from there. Ditch the ones you've got. They're not helping.
Stop with the anti-intellectualism. Science is real. It's why we can read this on the internet. If you had to pick a single reason why the Republicans lost, I feel it is best contained in this graphic. That's your problem in a nutshell right there. Fix that.
Fix your house, dust yourselves off, and come back as someone we can respect and even occasionally admire (which hasn't been since Reagan), and then you guys will see some results.
Weaselmancer
rediculous.
Advice to White House Staff preparing a response:
Try not to break the photocopier when you sit on it.
Lets not forget where most of the worlds helium comes from:
From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helium#Modern_extraction_and_distribution
"In 2008, approximately 169 million standard cubic meters (SCM) of helium were extracted from natural gas or withdrawn from helium reserves with approximately 78% from the United States, 10% from Algeria, and most of the remainder from Russia, Poland and Qatar.[80] In the United States, most helium is extracted from natural gas of the Hugoton and nearby gas fields in Kansas, Oklahoma, and Texas"
Science depends on it!
Actually Texas is one of the only Confederate states that is currently paying its own way. (Ie, providing more in Federal revenue than it takes in welfare.) Losing the South would be a net win, but losing the South and keeping the blue parts of Texas would be even better.
Science is all about firing a drunk pig out of a cannon just to see what happens.
Did you hear they are going to cut Alaska in half and make Texas the third largest state?
Separating East Texas from the U.S. Patent system should appeal to damned near everyone on /.
--- Mercutio was right.
You might be confusing your state government with the federal government. The president is limited to a max of ten years. Two 4 year terms he can be elected and up to 2 years of another president's term the he finished serving. At 2 years and one day, he can only serve as president by being elected once.
We lost so we don't want to play anymore.
3.3 million Texans signed to say they want Barack Obama to be their President.
If I had mod points I would rate this post funny since you think there's actually going to be money for Social Security or Medicare when I retire.
Except for ending slavery, the Nazis, communism, & securing American independence, war has never solved anything.
Since secession won't happen, maybe we could at least change the name to "Dis-united States of America," or "Not-Exactly-United States of America".
Yeah, more likely, Bubba with a nuke would blow himself - and his neighborhood - up, starting with "Hey! A NUKE! Hold my beer and watch this!!"
Here's the political opportunity here: making the case for how we're all better off together.
Red states feel they can live on their own.
Blue states like to point out they tend to receive more fed dollars then they send.
Neither of those arguments are why we're better off together, and convinces the other side to try to work together.
Sign the petition. Make DC make the argument.
But ... they won't ... *sigh*
END
It was racism that caused Americans to secede from the British crown. It was racism that caused the Yugoslavians to secede from the Soviet Union (just ask Trotsky!) It was racism that caused Indians to secede from Britain -- that racist jerk Gandhi needs to be put in his place! It is racism that causes Tibetans to want independence from China. It is racism that Indonesia is no longer a Dutch colony. Oh, and I bet you Prince Pedro was being racist when he decided to secede from Portugal, too.
I'm going to say something that is sure to get me negative kharma from the polemicists but couldn't it be possible that people are dissenting on the policies of the president rather than on the race of the president?
I got a lot of crap from my family when I told them that I was voting for Obama. Yeah, they were kind of bigots about it. But if you can't actually try to speculate on the rational reasons somebody might want to secede and just chalk it up to "they hate black people" that makes you guilty of bigotry, too.
"If I were to ask you a hypothetical question, what would you like it to be about?"
...even though I've got points because this comment is just too out-of-touch to let go without a response.
The Texas secession will go nowhere, of course. However, you've missed a couple of things.
First, the kinds of Texans who actually want to secede wouldn't bother with a wall on the border. They'd set up a 1000-yard-wide no-man's land, pepper it with automated machine gun towers and kill anything that moved. That would be a start on the whole "hold off the violent Mexican gangs" thing.
Second, even more Texans than the sort mentioned in the previous paragraph legally carry concealed weapons and wouldn't hesitate to return fire. The brazen, large-scale Mexican gangs activities seen inside Mexico just wouldn't fly in Texas. There are too many ranchers with too many 7.62s and .50s, and too many LEOs and judges who would simply give them a pat on the back and some reward money for every cartel member they downed.
Finally, the U.S. would never let Texas secede specifically *because* of national defense issues. Remember, the PANTEX plant is in Texas. Texans are the people who make nukes for the USA. A successfully seceeded Texas would instantly become a nuclear-bomb equipped nation. Now, delivery systems would be a problem but I'm sure they could figure out a way.
God, these secession petitions are stupid but if you want to insult Texas, work a little harder, OK?
And without that Texas district doling out billions to every idiotic patent troll, maybe we can finally get some patent reform, too.
As a Georgian, I'm sorry we're on that list. If it goes through, I'll do my best to make sure that Atlanta (which is actually a bit more liberal than the podunk villages out in the sticks where most of these people live) promptly secedes from the New Confederacy and rejoins the Union. We'll be like the Andorra or Lesotho of the South. Please don't burn down my house when Civil War II starts, I really like my stuff...
Prepare for the natural gas prices to go up as soon as they hit the export tariff at the Texas border. Most California electricity is generated by natural gas piped in from Texas and other red states, with the second largest portion coming from nuclear, with hydro at a far third.
Texas already has a net-positive economy, without going into the money it could make, were it not for the interstate commerce clause.
A few years back, a couple of companies, including a holding company whose only purpose was to play market games at the California border, were able to extract usurous rates for the natural gas sold to California, and the governor (who we removed from office, partially over this) signed long term contracts that still have California paying those rates. One of the companies involved was this little company no one has probably heard of: Enron.
So yeah, that little money pump works, and don't expect that that switch would not be thrown, should the Lone Star Republic secede (check their constitution for who they are liable to, based on their joining the union in the first place).
is it only me or anybody else thinking these people don't understand what democracy means?
I for one hope those redneck douchebags secede again. I for one will support their secession movement in any way that I can.
It's because they think they need a nutjob in order to get the Republican "base" out to vote, when what they really need is a moderate to win over the undecided voters (who are the real deciding factor).
If they don't have sufficient appeal to their base, they run the risk of fracturing it through disaffection. To a certain degree your reasoning was correct: "who else were they going to vote for?", and the answer is clearly "not Obama". However, that's insufficient because the answer can also be "no one at all".
Let me put it this way. I live in a safely red state, and two weeks before the election I noticed a Romney/Ryan bumper sticker. What really struck me was that was the first one I had seen. Paul Ryan was a critical choice for the GOP in an attempt to keep their base engaged while their presidential candidate (the perceived moderate) went after the independents. I'm not exaggerating when I say there were more McCain/Palin and W bumper stickers on cars driving around here than Romney ones on the day of the election.
This election was the Republicans' to lose given unemployment, the economy, and the incumbent's name used as an epithet for the most controversial legislation passed in the last fifty years. When you look at all that, you asked how the Republicans could lose. When you looked at the candidates in the primary, you asked how the Republicans could win.
Also, many Ron Paul supporters defected for Libertarian party after the Romney campaign's machinations during the primaries and convention to disenfranchise the Paul delegates despite there never being any plausible threat to Romney's nomination. Why is this relevant? I'm guessing the 0.53% of the vote the Libertarian candidate won in FL, for example, looks rather appealing to the Republicans in retrospect—given they lost by 0.86% of the vote there.
It was untenable. When it comes down to it, effectively no one really liked or was enthusiastic about Romney. He got loads of anti-Obama votes but very few pro-Romney votes.
Yeah, there is no higher form of patriotism than trying to secede from the union when your guy loses an election.
There will be loads of money to fund them. All they have to do is tax everyone making over 250k a year (the rich) and take the money spent on unfunded wars and convert it to medicare or social security.. I mean that's why they put the wars on budget- so they could continue spending the money when it is no longer needed for the wars. That is some they couldn't do when it was off budget emergency spending. It would have been counted as new spending and congress would have to show how it would be funded either by increased revenues or cuts to existing spending elsewhere. Now it appears that we will spend it forever instead of on a war(s).
I have 4 words for you: "Bill Hicks" and "Fuck You".
If Texas secedes, I can see the need for an Austin Airlift, mainly to help keep it weird.
You'll pardon me if I don't think GP was arguing for a 'reasonable' tax rate. You should also show that we don't already have that, and further that reducing income tax would do anything to improve the situation. You can force budget cuts, but the problem is that our politicians' spending priorities are not aligned with yours, and that won't change.
We have a debt to pay down. Unless you like the idea of China owning 8% of everything you see in this country, you should be clamoring for higher taxes, not lower. At the risk of becoming a scoundrel, I submit that paying taxes is an act of patriotism.
I enjoyed the hell out of Costa Rica, and didn't pay them a dime in taxes. I would go back in a heartbeat -- they have a great (socialized) medical system too. It's not like emigration isn't an option, or would be hugely unpleasant. My suggestion to GP is: put your money where your mouth is. I did.
Those who advocate genocide deserve every protection afforded by law, and none afforded by common human decency.
The national debt belongs to all of us. Secession is like trying to skip out without paying the check. If they have the gold or treasuries to equal 1/50th of our debt (or divide it by population) then I say let em leave.
Pay up on your rent and you can vacate!
The body politic has ways of shutting that whole thing down.
-
Dear World,
I want to apologize for the childish actions of my fellow Texans that would setup and sign such a petition. Their actions do not reflect the wishes and nature of Texans as a whole. I wish they would go buy a Caribbean island (not sending them south...Mexico doesn't deserve that) and start their own 'country', if they feel they can run something like that. I would like to remind my fellow Texans that following the war for independence from Mexico we were barely a republic and really wanted to become a state, only staying a republic for about 10 years due to the United States wanting to avoid war with Mexico. It is important to note that US troops fought and died against Mexico to annex Texas ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Texas_(1845%E2%80%931860) ).
tl;dr
Not all Texans want what these jackasses want.
Sincerely,
Shiro
I have the same response to the successionists that I did for the people threatening to move to Canada or Europe when President Bush was (re)elected. Good riddance and don't come back.
Okay this is ridiculous, to sum up the issue a Non Republican, Non White man is running the country and this is such an issue for people that they need to separate from the country. It's amazing how in many ethical and moral ways the US is still fighting the civil war.
It's all a stupid side show that distracts attention away from the looming financial catastrophe.
We'll see what all those soccer mom and middle class tax payers think when they are stuck for about $2k more in taxes. And that's just the start as they will also start having to pay higher health insurance premiums (yes, Obama care raises costs, not reduces them)
When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
No the "sovereignty" of the states doesn't translate into the right to leave the Union. If the state I live in tried to secede from the United States, it would happen over my dead body. The Union soldiers of the Civil War died a long time ago, but I don't think the debt owed to them has ended. Let us remain resolved, even in the 21st century, that these dead shall not have died in vain.
And another thing. Real leftists voted for Jill Stein. Obama's to the right of Eisenhower and Nixon.
Maybe some lawyer among us can tell me. Are the people signing these petitions committing an act of treason? What is the punishment for treason?
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/direct-new-delhi-regime-create-independent-nation-300-million-indias-untouchables/7WSsjJkD
Casteism
Nothing to see here folks. Just the nation's political id machine is going into one of its tantrums when it didn't get its way... hey conservatives... why not be more like the conservatives of yesteryear, you know the hunters , fishers, outdoorsmen conservationists who knew Berry Goldwater was a lunatic you'd never invite to your party and respected the earth?
Today's "conservatives" are about excusing rape , both corporate and real, characterizing the first as the "invisible hand of Adam Smith" and the second as the "invisible hand of God Almighty".
You minds are weird. You're weird. You have a weird, paranoiac belief system which has set up shop as a one-stop reality-denial depot where you can stop and get a fill-up of stupid religious fundamentalism, a steaming hot cup of climate change denial, your ties filled with a lot of hot air about creationism and your "stupid" and "gullibility" levels checked and topped off.
You're stupid and your bizarre belief system is a danger to yourself and others. You may not like losing elections and are looking for ways to act out but I and the rest the country- and that would be the majority- understand that this s nothing more than the temper tantrum of a child who has to be put in his place for his own good.
This is old but still relevant.
--
Dear Red States,
We've decided we're leaving. We intend to form our own country, and
we're taking the other Blue States with us.
In case you aren't aware, that includes Hawaii, Oregon,Washington,
Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, Illinois and all the Northeast. We
believe this split will be beneficial to the nation, and especially
to the people of the new country of New California.
To sum up briefly: You get Texas, Oklahoma and all the slave states.
We get stem cell research and the best beaches. We get Elliot
Spitzer. You get Ken Lay.
We get the Statue of Liberty. You get Dollywood.
We get Intel and Microsoft. You get WorldCom.
We get Harvard. You get Ole' Miss.
We get 85 percent of America's venture capital and entrepreneurs. You
get Alabama.
We get two-thirds of the tax revenue, you get to make the red states
pay their fair share.
Since our aggregate divorce rate is 22 percent lower than the
Christian Coalition's, we get a bunch of happy families. You get a
bunch of single moms.
Please be aware that Nuevo California will be pro-choice and
anti-war, and we're going to want all our citizens back from Iraq at
once. If you need people to fight, ask your evangelicals. They have
kids they're apparently willing to send to their deaths for no
purpose, and they don't care if you don't show pictures of their
children's caskets coming home. We do wish you success in Iraq, and
hope that the WMDs turn up, but we're not willing to spend our
resources in Bush's Quagmire.
With the Blue States in hand, we will have firm control of 80 percent
of the country's fresh water, more than 90 percent of the pineapple
and lettuce, 92 percent of the nation's fresh fruit, 95 percent of
America's quality wines (you can serve French wines at state dinners)
90 percent of all cheese, 90 percent of the high tech industry, most
of the U.S. low-sulfur coal, all living redwoods, sequoias and
condors, all the Ivy and Seven Sister schools, plus Harvard, Yale,
Stanford, Cal Tech and MIT.
With the Red States, on the other hand, you will have to cope with 88
percent of all obese Americans (and their projected health care
costs), 92 percent of all U.S. mosquitoes, nearly 100 percent of the
tornadoes, 90 percent of the hurricanes, 99 percent of all Southern
Baptists, virtually 100 percent of all televangelists, Rush Limbaugh,
Bob Jones University, Clemson and the University of Georgia.
We get Hollywood and Yosemite, thank you.
Additionally, 38 percent of those in the Red states believe Jonah was
actually swallowed by a whale, 62 percent believe life is sacred
unless we're discussing the death penalty or gun laws, 44 percent say
that evolution is only a theory, 53 percent that Saddam was involved
in 9/11 and 61 percent of you crazy bastards believe you are people
with higher morals then we lefties.
By the way, we're taking the good pot, too. You can have that dirt
weed they grow in Mexico.
Peace out,
Blue State
You petition the government to demand that they act in a particular way.
You DON'T petition the federal government to ask them to give you permission to secede, you just do it!
I appreciate the sentiment, but this is just plain silly. By asking the government to give you permission to secede, you're granting them power that they don't really have.
Permit me to interject a perspective into my favorite bastion of anarchical Democrats. Read or ignore at your own prerogative.
First and foremost (that is, most relevant to the OP) is the following observation: If any state has a chance of seceding, and doing so successfully in a way that leads to a growing and stable nation-state, it is Texas. The reasons are too many to list here--suffice it to say, there is precedence, will, and ability. (If you doubt it, consider the following: You are POTUS, and Texas secedes. You lose the Marine Corps. Immediately. In a closely-related event, 12 hours later you will also lose the capitol, Norfolk, and New York.)
Second, schisms embodied by secession movements highlighted here do not strictly adhere to red-vs-blue state correlations. (Note, for example, that Oregon, New York, and New Jersey are also on the list.) Instead, movements like these are built around a perception that the governing body does not represent the best interests of a subset of their constituents--sometimes even a perception that they are actively working to their detriment. In many red states, this is realized in the perception that the federal government ignores, if not mocks and holds in contempt, those states, their residents, and their values. In the three aforementioned blue states, there is a sizeable portion (as measured by population or geography) that is soundly overruled by a larger subset (or a subset with stronger influence over state policy).
I can speak from experience that non-Willamette Oregonians feel like they are ruled by those who live in the 'Valley'--Portland, Salem, Eugene, and surrounding burbs. Tax money flows from industries outside of the regions into one or two metropolitcan areas to build local light-rail projects, subsidize regional interests, and fund other policies exclusive to those areas. This is a major driver behind the movement to create a state of Jefferson, consisting of southern Oregon and northern California (residents of the latter face similar problems with their state government in Sacramento and the population centers of the Bay Area & southern California). I suspect there are similar sentiments in upstate New York and mid/southern New Jersey (i.e., urban and commuting populations effectively nullifying the idealogies of their rural and local counterparts).
Lastly, it's worth pointing out the nature of the ongoing discussions (some would say civil war) within the Republican party. One major driving factor that is often downplayed (if noticed at all) is the degree to which ideology drives conservative politics--much more so than counterpart mechanisms on the left, which are typically more issue- and demographically-oriented. Here's an example, in which I attempt to list some of the major factions in the ongoing discussions:
Obama: "If your state seceded, you would no longer be a citizen of the United States and therefore the United States federal government would no longer be obligated to pay you Social Security or Medicare benefits when you retire. (And if you think the Confe-DUH-racy is going to be able to afford to do it, think again.)"
This just demonstrates that you live in a liberal filter bubble, because you think that threat is some kind of game-ending trump card. On the contrary, you'd have total bedlam as millions of people rushed to line up asking where to sign their names.
In the last 6-7 years I have witnessed is an increasing number of rank-and-file conservatives (especially under the age of 45) who have started saying, "Look, I know the system is going to implode and evaporate long before I get there. And even if it doesn't, I find the policy/economic side effects of the federal government filling this role to be inherently, inescapably hostile to a free society. Therefore, LET ME OUT NOW. I will gladly forego any benefits I would have received at retirement. You can even keep whatever I've paid in up to this point. Just LET ME OUT NOW to stand or fall on my own financial choices with whatever money I earn from the sweat of my labor."
Pragmatically, a very very large percentage of the younger conservative generation has ALREADY kissed their "benefits" goodbye because they believe the system is irredeemably corrupt and bankrupt. Your threat doesn't scare them any more than it would if you threatened a terminal stage 4 lymphoma patient with execution.
Hollywood, Television, has become the dream machine. We need to take that back; each of us is a Dream Machine
As has been said before in this thread, they'd turn the southern border into a killing field, with automated machine gun turrets, moats of spike pits, and whatever other crazy shit you can imagine.
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
The best petition is to allow Austin, Houston, San Antonio, and Dallas to withdraw from Texas and create their own NEW state.
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/peacefully-allow-austin-houston-san-antonio-and-dallas-withdraw-texas-and-create-their-own-new-state/P623n9Pz
Good for you but I've seen what the GP's talking about as well, it's not just him. A lot of people from other countries seem to think that Canadians are a "subset" of Americans (as in "Estadounidense").
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
And both have the right to bear arms, depending on season, licensing and the species involved.
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
You gotta be kidding. This is Texas we're talking about. The only thing that keeps our border porous is the Feds getting their fat A$$es in the way. Besides, we kinda like Mexican food down here. Trust me, Texas can secure her borders.
Dear Microlimp: I give you 2 valid product keys for win7 and you reject both of them. Piss off you wankers!!!
There may - though also may not - be a small population who is actually willing to do something themselves to secure the border. If any such people exist they are nowhere near numerous enough to be able to pull it off themselves.
Of course, the irony is that the border might end up becoming less appealing to immigrants since they wouldn't want to be in Texas anyways. Immigrants will instead pass through New Mexico, Arizona, and California because they won't want to be anywhere near the crazed Texans.
In other words, the Texans can look forward to paying a lot more for produce if they secede.
Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
Only last time, it was to HELP black people :-)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_mobility != https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_mobility
Casteism
....Puerto Rico, and Democratic Presidents as far as the eye can see. We won't even have to change the flag.
DNA is a Turing machine. You, however, being dynamic and emergent, are not.
Which appears to be exactly what happened.
DNA is a Turing machine. You, however, being dynamic and emergent, are not.
"...and hello Democratic Presidents for the next twenty years!"
DNA is a Turing machine. You, however, being dynamic and emergent, are not.
Party divide according to:
-County -State -Popular vote
-Population density
http://i.imgur.com/pflQf.jpg
Relevant article (though the Image is not originally theirs:
http://gizmodo.com/5960290/this-is-the-real-political-map-of-america-hint-we-are-not-that-divided
I am an ACCA student. Got a query on Accountancy/Finance? Maybe I can help!
The PQ is only really a "major" party except in Quebec. While they do have a good amount of influence in that province, at a federal level their influence mostly comes in making demands for Quebec (usually succession, but that seems a ploy to get more "keep them happy" handouts from the fed) and from reducing the number of seats the other major parties can have.
Green is growing but they're not a "major" party (in terms of votes/seats) yet either. The big boys are the Conservatives, Liberals, and New Democrats.
Sorry, I doubt that heavyly, I never met one who thought so. ... ;)
Eveyone who sees that at the olympic games canada has its own flag, knows that.
Most people even know that Canada has 'british' and 'frensh' provinces
Otoh who knows what idiots you have met
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
One person put it as "The two countries are so close together you'd think they're like the same country." He was expecting the TSA treatment when flying in and was surprised that small shops and taxi drivers weren't keen on taking US dollars.
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
But that souns more like an US american than an european, but funny :)
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
We would often be sorry if our wishes were gratified.
Ever been to a hospital emergency room in an area full of illegals when you have an actual emergency and there's 50 people ahead of you with a mild tummy ache that don't want to pay a regular doctor?
These are the sorts of things that need to be addressed before we throw the gates open.
The preceding post was not a Slashvertisement.
Obama can't let any of those states secede. He'll need all the tax money they provide to pay for the two million new public assistance cases when he adds Puerto Rico as a NEW state. We can barely take care of ourselves right now!!!
Did the Ygoslavians, Indians, Tibetans, Indonesians and Pedro want to secede because Britain/USSR/China just re-elected a black president?
Not in modern times, at any rate. Republicans mocked liberals like Streisand for saying they'd leave the country if Bush was re-elected. Obama won in 2008, and all of a sudden Texas and Alaska start talking about secession.
If you insist on using Bill O'Reilly nutpicking and pretend three yahoos on USENET make a movement, I'll just ask which Democratic Governors and members of Congress started talking about withdrawing from the union after 2000 or 2004.
If you think that it's just a coincidence that secession talk got started after the election of the first black president, and then made a resurgence after his re-election, I have some shares in a sweet New York bridge to sell you...
As if seceding states would be able to keep their federal toys.
Reagan could have switched back to the Democratic Party and challenged Obama from the left this year. If he were still alive, not term limited, or made an empty shell from alzheimers, of course.
Because Reagan: supported a treaty requiring the prosecution of those who commit torture, raised taxes multiple times to lower the deficit, granted amnesty to millions of immigrants, withdrew from Lebanon, wound up the cold war but then wound it back down with arms reduction treaties, declared that Social Security has nothing to do with the deficit, and started prosecutions for the S&L scandal that eventually put ~800 bankers in jail.
All in noted contrast to Obama, who has continued warrantless wiretapping, wants to cut Social Security and Medicare, and assassinated American citizens.
As opposed to your ignorance....
What are you babbling on about. A fascist government (Germany and Italy in the 30's and 40's) is by definition a far right-wing government.
Far more Democrats voted for Bush than there were Nader voters in total. Then there's the almost inconsequential matter that Gore would have won with a statewide recount under any scenario, but the election was stolen by corrupt Republicans at the state and national level.