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David Cameron 'Orders New Curbs On Internet Porn'

First time accepted submitter fustakrakich writes with news reported in The Telegraph of new anti-pornography regulations ordered by UK Prime Minister David Cameron: "The new measures will mean that in future anyone buying a new computer or signing up with a new internet service provider (ISP) will be asked, when they log on for the first time, whether they have children. If the answer is "yes", the parent will be taken through the process of installing anti-pornography filters, as well as a series of questions on how stringent they wish the restrictions to be, according to a newspaper."

345 comments

  1. Sorry kids... by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I'm afraid that your first sexual experiences will have to be with a trusted friend, family member, or respected community authority figure, rather than the internet...

    1. Re:Sorry kids... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm afraid that your first sexual experiences will have to be with a trusted friend, family member, or respected community authority figure, rather than the internet...

      In fairness, the nation had been wondering who'd take up the "think of the children" mantle now Sir Jimmy Savile is no longer with us.

    2. Re:Sorry kids... by dkleinsc · · Score: 1, Offtopic

      You do know about the whole Henry VIII thing, right? The UK hasn't been Catholic for centuries.

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
    3. Re:Sorry kids... by PlusFiveTroll · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Got to love the U.K. 'You viewed porn on your computer?! OMG You are a child molester! GAOL 4 U." Don't worry though, the religious right here in the U.S. desires Taliban like laws to the same effect.

      https://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=the-sunny-side-of-smut is a decent summary of a few studies that pretty much say 'What internet porn problem?'

      If you google 'effects of porn on children' you'll get tons of results saying the terrible scary things that will happen, but most made on actual studies read more like this http://www.apa.org/monitor/nov07/webporn.aspx .

      So it seems that all this hand waving by Cameron is about getting reelected and society control.

    4. Re:Sorry kids... by rtfa-troll · · Score: 1

      You do know about the whole Henry VIII thing, right? The UK hasn't been Catholic for centuries.

      Don't worry, the Church of England has been negotiating to link with the Catholic church* for years and already have compatible teachings. Fortunately it's considered that they aren't really mad enough.

      * honest to god [sic]**; this is the first link that popped up on Google. It must be the best source.

      ** [sic] as in that's really what the little voice in my head said... not as in a humour marker by someone who doesn't know what sick means.

      --
      =~ s,(.*),<sarcasm>$1</sarcasm>,g if any_point_you_wish();
    5. Re:Sorry kids... by Vinegar+Joe · · Score: 3, Funny

      I'm afraid that your first sexual experiences will have to be with a trusted friend, family member, or respected community authority figure, rather than the internet...

      Well a Catholic priest is the traditional authority figure to fill this role.

      In Britain it's been Jimmy Saville and the BBC.

      --
      "The average reporter we talk to is 27 years old......They literally know nothing." - Ben Rhodes
    6. Re:Sorry kids... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm afraid that your first sexual experiences will have to be with a trusted friend, family member, or respected community authority figure, rather than the internet...

      As opposed to your second?

      Look, I jacked it to Internet porn both as a kid, and to this day, but it really irks me when people suggest life was all but impossible before the Internet.

      It's not that old, and everything changes, even the Internet.

    7. Re:Sorry kids... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Nah, this has nothing much to do with porn. It is step one in introducing an "Internet Drivers License". Anonymity is a bitch, you see.

      Captcha: terrors

    8. Re:Sorry kids... by Stan92057 · · Score: 3, Funny

      My first sexual experience was with a magazine called Playboy. For kids of this age it will be a misspelled word that will give them there first experience.

      --
      Jack of all trades,master of none
    9. Re:Sorry kids... by Runaway1956 · · Score: 1

      Get off the grass, Junior. When we were kids, the only porn available were stained copies of Playboy and Penthouse.

      --
      "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
    10. Re:Sorry kids... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If he knew any history, he wouldn't be on /. posting.

    11. Re:Sorry kids... by ciotog · · Score: 2

      Sears catalogue, biatch!

    12. Re:Sorry kids... by SuricouRaven · · Score: 2

      Either a misspelled word, or one of their peers. A lot of porn gets traded at schools.

    13. Re:Sorry kids... by letherial · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The internet changed EVERYTHING. You don't see it because you grew up with it, but those of us who didn't know the challenges of a teen back then. Putting all the run to the library to do a school report aside; finding a titty mag was better then finding gold. Now you kids just get to type in anything in Google and its tits and ass for life.

      Its great your generation got access to such information, not just porn but all around the massive amount of information you have available to you, the only thing i request is that you respect what you have, because you have no idea what its like without it. Also in 30 years when i say get off my lawn, get off my fucking lawn.

    14. Re:Sorry kids... by Teun · · Score: 2, Informative

      The UK is catholic, they are not Roman Catholic, meaning they don't follow the doctrine of the Bishop of Rome but instead of one of their own.

      --
      "The likes of Facebook and WhatsApp are free to those whose privacy is of zero value."
    15. Re:Sorry kids... by Anne+Thwacks · · Score: 2

      obviously, I lived in a poorer neighbourhood: we were expected to draw/write our own! (and it were up hill both ways ;-)

      --
      Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
    16. Re:Sorry kids... by davester666 · · Score: 1

      Sears & Roebuck to you, junior.

      --
      Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
    17. Re:Sorry kids... by mrclisdue · · Score: 1

      ...the printed directions in me mum's kotex package, sonny.

    18. Re:Sorry kids... by mrclisdue · · Score: 1

      ...For kids of this age it will be a misspelled word that will give them there first experience.

      If only you'd waited long enough, that experience could have been yours....

      cheers,

    19. Re:Sorry kids... by Larryish · · Score: 4, Funny

      I called Mr. Cameron on the telephone and asked what was behind it all.

      Mr. Cameron says the new curbs are actually a safety measure to keep all that Internet traffic from running over the cyber-street-walkers.

      Safety first, I always say!

    20. Re:Sorry kids... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      however as shown by the recent election the religious right are losing their grip. In this case the leader of the nation wants to go back to Victorian times. That's kind of scary. Parents should be monitoring their children's internet time, not the government.

    21. Re:Sorry kids... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The UK is such a nanny state I could probably loot, pillage and burn London with a 1000 pre-Christian Vikings trained and equipped with 19th century technology.

    22. Re:Sorry kids... by anubi · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Ok... now that you guys are talking about how you us of the older generation handled this problem... let it be known that kids will be kids regardless of the environment.

      In my day, fifty years ago, we had this old discarded washing machine in a vacant lot. Lots of trees, so it was well secluded. We kept our tittie mags in it. Old stained tittie mags. No telling what filth was on them, but we didn't give a damn. All of us knew about the washing machine, as at least it would keep our tittie mags out of the weather. What risks did we take as horny teens out in a secluded area away from anyone taking care of natural drives - "child predators" could have had a field day seeding our washing machine with new porn just to watch us do what we did when we saw it. Someone was always leaving new tittie mags in, and I would too if I found one. I sure as hell could not bring it home!

      If there was one thing the parents seemed to tolerate, it was the tittie mags receiving the brunt of the horny guy's attention, not their daughters.

      Today's parents might breathe a sigh of relief knowing those natural urges are being satisfied in their private home, not in a secluded back alley, covered in the remains of who knows who's "stuff".

      Another thing... kids aren't the only ones who do what someone else doesn't want them to do. Remember "prohibition"? Its a helluva lot easier to pass a law than it is to enforce it. Especially if it goes against natural drives.

      I think there is a lot of wisdom is looking the other way when certain things happen. Is anyone getting hurt? If this is not coming out of anyone else's hide, then I feel its best to ignore it. Its just an itch that needs scratching. No big deal.

      If you succeed in removing the natural sexual drives from your young'uns, you can look forward to a future with no grandchildren. Count your blessings.

      --
      "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]

    23. Re:Sorry kids... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...or Government Employed Disc Jockey.

    24. Re:Sorry kids... by xaxa · · Score: 1

      Get off the grass, Junior. When we were kids, the only porn available were stained copies of Playboy and Penthouse.

      The research suggests more British children see sexual material on DVDs or TV than on the Internet.

      (I read that in the Open Right's Group's response to the survey: http://www.openrightsgroup.org/ourwork/reports/response-to-dfe-consultation-on-parental-controls )

    25. Re:Sorry kids... by Doctor_Jest · · Score: 1

      Bah! Before the internet we had to find old Playboy magazines and Dad's VHS stash of "All American Hookers" (I believe there were 27 movies made...) :) Kids have it too easy with the internet...

      now get off my lawn!

      --
      It's the Stay-Puft Marshmallow Man.
    26. Re:Sorry kids... by beelsebob · · Score: 1

      No, the UK is christian. The national religion is not Catholicism at all. Instead, it is protestentism, the head of our church is the queen, and the second in command, the arch-bishop of Canterbury. Catholicism is very much tied to Pope.

      For reference, the norm in the UK is actually atheism, but the official religion is very much not Catholicism.

    27. Re:Sorry kids... by TheP4st · · Score: 2

      In this case the leader of the nation wants to go back to Victorian times.

      During that time it were considered a legit form of medical treatment to give a woman a hysterical paroxysm via pelvic massage, perhaps Cameron simply is planning for a new career.

      --
      "I have downloaded hundreds and hundreds of records, why would I care if somebody downloads ours?" Robin Pecknold
    28. Re:Sorry kids... by hairyfeet · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Hell before the Internet there was a family member's dirty VCR tapes you sneak a peak at and before that there was the dirty mags, heel you go back to the first caves humans lived in and they find smut.

      So I just don't get the "ZOMFG little Timmy might see a titty!" bullshit, just let Timmy know that the porn is just as fake as every other film and quit having a damned fit already

      I'll never forget what Joe Bob Briggs said about America, I bet it applies to the UK too "America: Where you can't show a titty unless there is a knife in it". Personally if it came down to my teen boy watching a porno, preferably one of the educational ones like the Nina Hartley great sex, but hell any porno, even that Avengers spoof where they painted Chyna green, or watching torture porn like Hostel? I'd hand him a bag of popcorn and say "Try not to choke on the popcorn when you see the She Hulk, kinda hard to paint everything lime green ya know"

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    29. Re:Sorry kids... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Poppycock!
      There is no such thing as "natural" sex drive, especially among our innocent percious children! It's a disease caused by pornography, and must be stamped out!

      If it weren't for pornography, sex would rightly only exist as God intended (it's in the bible!): lights off, socks on, in the missionary position for the sole purpose of procreation!

    30. Re:Sorry kids... by Pax681 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Catholicism is very much tied to Pope.

      oh really? :P

      The Church of England is the officially established Christian church[2][3][4][5] in England and the Mother Church of the worldwide Anglican Communion. The church considers itself within the tradition of Western Christianity and dates its formal establishment principally to the mission to England by St Augustine of Canterbury in AD 597. As a result of Augustine's mission, the church in England came under the authority of the Pope. Initially prompted by a dispute over the annulment of the marriage of Henry VIII to Catherine of Aragon, the Church of England separated from the Roman Catholic Church in 1534 and became the established church by an Act of Parliament in the Act of Supremacy, beginning a series of events known as the English Reformation.[6] During the reign of Queen Mary I, the Church was fully restored under Rome in 1555. Papal authority was again explicitly rejected after the accession of Queen Elizabeth I when the Act of Supremacy of 1558 was passed. Catholic and Reformed factions vied for determining the doctrines and worship of the church. This ended with the 1558 Elizabethan settlement, which developed the understanding that the church was to be both Catholic and Reformed:

      such to be wrong eh? :P

    31. Re:Sorry kids... by penix1 · · Score: 1

      I could probably loot, pillage and burn London with a 1000 pre-Christian Vikings trained and equipped with 19th century technology.

      Just remember, the horns go on the OUTSIDE of the helmet.

      --
      This is a sig. This is only a sig. Had this been an actual sig you would have been informed where to tune for more sigs.
    32. Re:Sorry kids... by snspdaarf · · Score: 3, Funny

      In fairness, the nation had been wondering who'd take up the "think of the children" mantle now Sir Jimmy Savile is no longer with us.

      Gary Glitter?

      --
      Why, without your clothes, you're naked, Miss Dudley!
    33. Re:Sorry kids... by Nyder · · Score: 1

      such to be wrong eh? :P

      Sucks to misspell a word when you are burning someone, right?

      --
      Be seeing you...
    34. Re:Sorry kids... by Sketchly · · Score: 1

      Or a DJ

    35. Re:Sorry kids... by rtb61 · · Score: 0

      What was behind it all, David Cameron was implicated in the NewsCorp phone tapping scam and has strong ties with Rupert Murdoch via various connections. What's the payoff for NewsCorp, allowing greater control of UK media via NewsCorp, squeezing out the BBC and legalising lying in News. David Cameron the douche goes for save the children. Save the bloody children, Cameron is and was intending to sell the children of the UK out to corporate propaganda as News.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    36. Re:Sorry kids... by demonlapin · · Score: 1

      There was a convenience store in a shitty neighborhood between my house and the main public library that would sell me porn when I was 14. I should have turned it into a profitable business but I wasn't forward-thinking enough at that age. My parents would never have questioned the frequency with which I went to the library, especially if I actually came home with something different every night.

    37. Re:Sorry kids... by oursland · · Score: 1

      finding a titty mag was better then finding gold.

      This only means that your friends sucked or found you to be untrustworthy. Porn was definitely easy to access and one's possession of it was of value to the group, but it was a physical contraband back then. The medium has changed, that's all.

    38. Re:Sorry kids... by madprof · · Score: 1

      The CoE is Anglican. Stop trying to be confusing. And stop quoting Wikipedia. I only wrote that stuff yesterday for a joke.

    39. Re:Sorry kids... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well DUH. What do you expect from tories? They're social conservatives as well as austerians. They almost exclusively exist in some twisted world of schadenfreude.

    40. Re:Sorry kids... by Phrogman · · Score: 1

      Dont forget National Geographic articles on Africa - because it was okay to show black tits but not white ones or something like that...
      When I was a kid, porn was *really hard* to get ahold of for the most part, so you hid the playboy mags well.

      --
      "The first time I got drunk, I got married. The second time I bought a chimpanzee, after that I stayed sober" Arian Seid
    41. Re:Sorry kids... by Pax681 · · Score: 1

      erm.. the truth is confusing... ......riiiiiiiiiiiight

    42. Re:Sorry kids... by madprof · · Score: 1

      For some, it appears so. However you could have been right AND easily understood by being more precise.

    43. Re:Sorry kids... by Pax681 · · Score: 1

      i was rather drunk after drinking a fair bit of lovely ruby Port wine
      however you will find that i am right in this instance.
      and as they say here in Scotland GIRFUY :P..lol

    44. Re:Sorry kids... by beelsebob · · Score: 1

      Then frankly... stop ragging on yer fellow scot :P.

    45. Re:Sorry kids... by madprof · · Score: 1

      Accurate, but imprecise. But I like Scotland (it is much nicer than England, let's be honest) so I will let you off. Just this special one time.

    46. Re:Sorry kids... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm afraid that your first sexual experiences will have to be with a trusted friend, family member, or respected community authority figure, rather than the internet...

      I think it was with self, and the left hand.

    47. Re:Sorry kids... by madprof · · Score: 1

      Oh and I learned today there is a "catholic group" in the General Synod of the CofE which calls itself Catholic Anglican. So there we have it.

  2. Good try but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...who pays? That's a lot of knowledge to pass on for free. Like, reams of it...

  3. What happens.. non standard OS? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    What if you are taking a connection solely for use with Cell phones over wifi for example?
      OR some weirdo config of Arch Linux?

    1. Re:What happens.. non standard OS? by ifiwereasculptor · · Score: 4, Funny

      Linux is a tool for child porn! Ban it!

      Barring that, it would be just loads of fun. In a world where I can't even buy an airline ticket without having to fire up IE and the so-called "support" of pretty much all companies get throughly confused when I say I don't have Windows, It'd be great to say "sure, take me through the legally required steps of securing my computer against evil, evil porn. By the way, I use OpenBSD. Go."

    2. Re:What happens.. non standard OS? by Kjella · · Score: 3, Interesting

      You'll laugh until the steps are:
      1. Wipe OpenBSD
      2. Install Windows
      3. Install this government-mandated software

      It was one of the nastier suggestions for use of Trusted Computing and Remote Attestation - if your computer can't provide a valid signature saying it's running a trusted, up to date OS with antivirus etc. then you wouldn't get to connect to the Internet. Then again, if ARM takes over it looks like we can kiss the idea of "alternative OS" good-bye as Apple, Microsoft and most Android handsets are locked to one OS to begin with...

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    3. Re:What happens.. non standard OS? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, just remember that the Rules are for Your Protection ;)

  4. Is that a trick question? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How do they define "have"?

    1. Re:Is that a trick question? by dmacleod808 · · Score: 1

      It depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is. If the--if he--if 'is' means is and never has been, that is not--that is one thing. If it means there is none, that was a completely true statement...

      --
      There Can Be Only One...
  5. Warez, porn and mp3s... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is the vast majority of the internet :)

  6. This Will Certainly Work by retroworks · · Score: 5, Funny

    Finally, internet pornography will be thwarted, and David Cameron will go down in history.

    --
    Gently reply
    1. Re:This Will Certainly Work by wonkey_monkey · · Score: 5, Funny

      and David Cameron will go down

      But we won't be able to see the video.

      --
      systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
    2. Re:This Will Certainly Work by Aardpig · · Score: 1

      In or on?

      --
      Tubal-Cain smokes the white owl.
    3. Re:This Will Certainly Work by epSos-de · · Score: 1

      It seems like a perfect excuse for installing surveillance software. Great idea of him.

    4. Re:This Will Certainly Work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But we won't be able to see the video.

      Thankfully. It would probably make goatse look respectable.

    5. Re:This Will Certainly Work by durrr · · Score: 2

      But... think of the children!
      What are they supposed to get off on if internet porno is banned?

    6. Re:This Will Certainly Work by wonkey_monkey · · Score: 1
      --
      systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
  7. A new study on statistics by KBentley57 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I doub't it would have much effect. You cannot stop human nature. Besides the view that sex is "bad, dirty, evil..ect", I'm going to throw a broad sweeping generalization that most men in a household take care of the tech stuff anyways, and will answer the question with a "no" and go on about their business, or answer "yes" and set the limits to off.

    1. Re:A new study on statistics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've known more than one family where a kid handles the tech stuff.

    2. Re:A new study on statistics by AmiMoJo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Well every attempt to filter the internet so far has failed, even in countries that have constructed vast network censorship infrastructure and thrown vast resources at the problem. Since the British government will just expect the ISPs to do it and they will want to spend as little money as possible the filters will inevitably be useless.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
  8. Pornography addiction is harmful by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yourbrainonporn.com ... you can thank me later!

    1. Re:Pornography addiction is harmful by Gaygirlie · · Score: 2

      I don't see anything to thank you for. It's just a website with incoherent ramblings about how bad porn supposedly is.

    2. Re:Pornography addiction is harmful by PlusFiveTroll · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Well, Well, porn is bad because it has to be, my leaders told me so.

      In the meantime, can anyone link any actual scientific studies showing this is the case. Almost everything that I've read so far is 'not enough data for conclusion' or 'other inputs from your environment have a much stronger effect'.

    3. Re:Pornography addiction is harmful by Runaway1956 · · Score: 2

      I doubt very much that anyone can offer you such a link. All the evidence is anecdotal, or scriptural. Except in those cases where a modern day prophet converses directly with God.

      Empirical evidence shows that almost all boys are interested in girls, and are titillated by viewing girls in varying states of dress and undress. That's about as far as "science" goes in this matter.

      --
      "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
    4. Re:Pornography addiction is harmful by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 1

      Almost everything that I've read so far is 'not enough data for conclusion' or 'other inputs from your environment have a much stronger effect'.

      Or how about the classic 'this single study proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that pornography is evil and harmful'? Never mind the fact that they don't have nearly enough evidence to support that conclusion!

      Just link to a single study that supports your own position and then claim that you've defeated anyone who disagrees with you.

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
    5. Re:Pornography addiction is harmful by Roger+Wilcox · · Score: 1

      http://yourbrainonporn.com/ This site presents a case against Internet porn from a theoretical biological standpoint and is backed up by thousands of anecdotal accounts from individuals that have recovered or are recovering from Internet pornography addiction. It is the first material that I have yet read that has been able to show me potential actual negatives of Internet porn use. The short version: porn and Internet porn are not the same thing. Human brains were not designed for the dopamine overload that viewing hundreds of attractive naked mates per Internet porn session allows. There may be effects on ones normal brain functioning due to dopamine receptor deregulation if one regularly indulges in Internet porn. These effects can alter your mood, your attention span, and your social interactions. There is a 1.5 hour video series explaining the neuroscience behind the site's message, and there are many, many members discussing the impact that Internet porn has had on their lives. It appears to me after viewing the videos that it may be time to revise my own thoughts about Internet porn. I still don't believe that Internet porn should be banned, but I do believe that in the future people will be more aware of Internet porn's potential effects on brain physiology because they could indeed be interpreted as negative effects.

  9. Religion is much worse by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Why aren't government officials trying to keep kids from being exposed to something so dangerous as religion instead?

    1. Re:Religion is much worse by McDrewbs · · Score: 2

      Because religion is already intertwined with law/politics. Just like how tobacco, alcohol or caffeine are legal substances. If you want something to be legal nowadays you need to already have it established. Imagine if 50 Shades of Grey was written instead of the bible, porn would be what influenced law/politics and religion would be frowned upon.

    2. Re:Religion is much worse by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > Why aren't government officials trying to keep kids from being exposed to something so dangerous as religion instead?

      Because many goverment officials are religiotards themselves.

    3. Re:Religion is much worse by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      religion gets in the brain and rots it away, early on.

      for as long as we subject our kids to early brainwashing, it won't be easy to remove this virus from the brain.

      (I'm 100% serious too. I was raised with religion and it took a lot of effort to purge it from my thought processes.)

      I'm not surprised that it has a stranglehold on most of the population. things that embed in the conciousness early and are accompanied by 'good, family feelings' are extremely hard to reverse.

      --

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
    4. Re:Religion is much worse by MillerHighLife21 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Because religion isn't dangerous. Crazy people that use religion as an excuse for their actions are dangerous. If anything, we need more Christians that are actually Christians in this country. The kind that understand "judge not lest ye be judged" means something. The kind that understand gossip and gluttony are on the same level as sodomy in the Bible meaning a fat guy has no business being critical of somebody who is gay.

      Christians SHOULD be people that everybody on earth is happy to see because we are supposed to strive to be humble, helpful, loving, charitable and self controlled. Instead there is a large group of people in this country that have never even read the Bible and wish to try to legislate a person's character.

      If more Christians focused on acting like Christians they'd be setting an example that others would respect rather than becoming some imaginary force that is trying to control people's lives. If somebody locks you in a box where you can't do anything wrong, it doesn't make you a better person. You have to choose it. The Bible is playbook to being a better person (New Testament) but it's so often twisted in public that most people have no clue what it actually says about anything.

      --
      "Don't teach a man to fish, feed yourself. He's a grown man. Fishing's not that hard." - Ron Swanson
    5. Re:Religion is much worse by kheldan · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I'll second this -- and I'll do it openly, not as an AC.
      Children should be protected from religion until the age of 18, so they have some chance of actually making an intelligent decision about it, rather than being indoctrinated/brainwashed by it while their brains are still forming.

      --
      Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
    6. Re:Religion is much worse by Cruciform · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Religion indoctrinates people into accepting things without proof, to forego critical thinking for statements from "authority".
      The new testament is just fine with saying women are not equal to men, and it justifies such claims with an imaginary force.

    7. Re:Religion is much worse by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You already know how it will work out. In most countries you can start voting at 18, and things are pretty much the same.

      Religion, political views, family values and other things like that are directly influenced by other family members.

      To fix the problem, change the schooling system first. Look back into history and see how schooling and school material influenced society. You don't get a high literacy because you have an advanced society, you get an advanced society, because you have high literacy.

      If you want to get rid of those religious nuts, then make history clases more intersting by explaining religion and it's role in politics in the past 4000 years. Kids are smart, it won't take them long to realize religion killed more people than wars and plagues put together.

      Add to that some courses about the more recent political developments, what democracy is, how communism manifested itself in the USSR and the rest of the world, and let them draw their own conclusions.

      Like I said before, kids are smart, but with little life experience making them believe the wrong things is easy.

      Just two hours per week, for four years of highschool, are easier to change, for a person, than 10 years later when you have to undo literally a lifetime of misunderstandings and bias.

    8. Re:Religion is much worse by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 2

      Because porn isn't dangerous. Crazy people that use porn as an excuse for their actions are dangerous.

      FTFY

      (I know you were being sarcastic and/or facetious, but thought this point was important too.)

      --
      It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
    9. Re:Religion is much worse by DeeEff · · Score: 1

      Because religion is already intertwined with law/politics. Just like how tobacco, alcohol or caffeine are legal substances. If you want something to be legal nowadays you need to already have it established. Imagine if 50 Shades of Grey was written instead of the bible, porn would be what influenced law/politics and religion would be frowned upon.

      Be right back. I'm going to the nearest Chapters and then I'm going to go grab a time machine. This is gonna be good.

    10. Re:Religion is much worse by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Voted you up, but had to mention that the original texts said something along the lines of "unnatural sex" and not "sodomy", which was primarily used for sex with animals. References to sodomy in the Bible are not talking about gay sex, at least not the main ones that are always quoted.

      No, I'm not gay, I'm a heterosexual Christian who knows the Bible teaches "judge not lest ye be judged" and "love your enemies".

    11. Re:Religion is much worse by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 1, Insightful

      The values that make being a Christian in your sense of the word have nothing to do with religion. Plenty of other philosophies that have nothing to do with religion share them.

      Religion is simply a way of establishing a hierarchy of control. It is not useful productive or valuable and often leads to creating conflict.

    12. Re:Religion is much worse by artor3 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      What you mean is that all families should be forced to be atheist, because you're an atheist. That would, after all, be the effect of banning exposure of religion to children, and your goal is clearly to make more atheists. You are advocating an end to freedom of thought -- forcing your personal beliefs on everyone.

      It really is amazing how many internet-atheists (not to be confused with the majority of quite reasonable atheists) are exactly as bad in the exact same ways as the religious people they hate so much.

    13. Re:Religion is much worse by DeeEff · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Because religion isn't dangerous. Crazy people that use religion as an excuse for their actions are dangerous. If anything, we need more Christians that are actually Christians in this country.

      Let me stop you there. We call this "No True Scotsman." You should read into it.

    14. Re:Religion is much worse by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      As if any worldview you choose could not equally be claimed to be "indoctrinated/brainwashed". Humans cannot personally validate every item of knowledge proposed by society in general when their brains are still forming. Outside of that, religion or not, the information is backed by social authority, and the majority of those views, religion or not, are unprovable. All such authority is equally "indoctrination".

      When you claim your preferred worldview is different--it still won't be.

    15. Re:Religion is much worse by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      No, but treating religion like adult content seems reasonable. Just ban children from going to church/temple/whatever like one would certain movies, and ban anyone that volunteers for or is employed by a tax exempt religious organization from talking to children without the presence of their parents.

      Just like NC-17 content, some parents can and will choose to ignore these protections at home, thats their prerogative and right, but society should do what we can to protect children from this content in public.

    16. Re:Religion is much worse by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Read the bible as a book of allegories, metaphors, parables, etc. It makes much more sense and is probably what the authors intended.

      captcha: ethereal

    17. Re:Religion is much worse by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Religion is the most dangerous thing to have ever arose from our race. Even when you discard all of the heinous acts that were carry out en`mass throughout history and still today under the guise of religion, it's still incredibly dangerous simply due to how "ordinary" people treat it.

      Parents that force their children into sports (or other after school) activities against their will risk losing custody of their children and facing jail time. Parent that force their children into churches are encouraged to do so.

      Book burnings may sound like a thing of the past, but what do you call what's happening right now to schools in regards to the contents of books. It's really no different than the book burnings of the past, the end result is still suppression of knowledge.

      The most painfully obvious problem with Christianity in particular is that their god supposedly has a plan for every last one of us, yet when we do things that upset religious bodies our actions are shunned as corrupt. Seriously WTF.

    18. Re:Religion is much worse by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No. He is saying that you do not discuss religion AT ALL until 18.

      Not atheism, not christianity, not sikhism.. none of them, unless nobody practices it anymore (then it's just history).

      You simply do not tell them "you must believe this" or lack there of.

    19. Re:Religion is much worse by don.g · · Score: 1

      No True Scotsman is a crappy fallacy people knowing nothing of church history (hint: there's a *lot* of dissent in it) love to throw at Christians complaining that "too many of us have lost the plot" and please don't judge us all by that lot.

      It's pretty common to be part of a group and not want to be thought of as being like members of that group whose actions/beliefs/etc you disapprove of. Think of it like being a US citizen who doesn't approve of your government's actions, or indeed those of your fellow countrymen, and is at pains to tell people from outside your country that "we're not all like that".

      So accept that any group will have dissent, and when it is mentioned shouting "NO TRUE SCOTSMAN LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU" may be a little childish.

      --
      Pretend that something especially witty is here. Thanks.
    20. Re:Religion is much worse by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When you go from this

      Children should be protected from religion until the age of 18

      to this

      an end to freedom of thought

      It is clear that religion or pornography are not the problem, but the lack of critical thought in society. Should we teach children formal logic skills as early as they know the difference between true and false; we would eliminate the majority of society's problems.

      Furthermore Mr. artor3, should you believe that religion would be eliminated if people had a choice at age 18 in the matter, that says more about what you believe than what kheldan does.

    21. Re:Religion is much worse by BemoanAndMoan · · Score: 2

      Because religion isn't dangerous. Crazy people that use religion as an excuse for their actions are dangerous.

      It depends what your definition is. If 'dangerous' includes indoctrination into superstition, the suppression of critical analysis and of humanist morality in place of ideological dogma, forwarding backwards concepts such as anti-contraception in AIDS-riddled Africa and anti-abortion at the cost of the mother's life (etc. ad nauseum) then yes it is dangerous.

      Worst of all, religion denies all of man's achievements, ascribing them instead to an all-mighty deity who simply bequeaths them on a whim. What a wonderful belief system ... not.

      Even when cherry-picking from the Christian buffet to avoid nonsense like a 6000-year old universe and original sin and taking it down to its barest essence, you still end up with a fear/reward system that promises *infinite* and *eternal* pleasure or pain depending upon how you lived your seventy-odd years of life here on earth. People who behave because they long for heaven or are afraid of hell are my definition of crazy.

      So while the rest of the world is happily masturbating to images and videos, you go sit in your safe Christian corner and say a prayer for Cameron. He's likely to need all the help he can get next election (em, but I guess prayer doesn't always work, eh Romney?).

    22. Re:Religion is much worse by Cruciform · · Score: 1

      Evolution can be observed via paleontology, ring species, genetics, and practical experiments with E. coli. (ever heard of nylonase?)

      Meanwhile, flip to Timothy 2:12 in your book of fables.

    23. Re:Religion is much worse by Cruciform · · Score: 1

      Correction, nylonase was in flavobacterium. E. coli evolution was observed in a separate experiment, giving two seperate real time observations of evolution in a lab.

    24. Re:Religion is much worse by Velex · · Score: 1

      How about a compromise?

      Why don't we just stop turning a blind eye to religious child abuse? Punishing using violence and starvation to attempt to change a child's sexual orientation just the same as any other use of starvation and violence would be a good start. Refusing to allow religion as an excuse for genital mutilation would be another good place to start.

      Parents who do these things to their children should be ashamed. They should at least wait until their kid is fully grown and can fight back and move out if they want to do these things.

      Cutting my ex-parents out of my life was a choice I made in the end. Let's keep letting people like my ex-parents attempt to brainwash. That way there are more people like me who find religion utterly detestable. I just think it would be good to prevent any permanent damage to the child.

      I can hate my parents, but I can't ever have genitals that function normally. I suppose circumcision works great for everybody else, but it didn't for me. But, I guess my parents, being rational grown-ups, knew that never having grand-children was a risk they would take. So, I hope they're happy with how it worked out.

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    25. Re:Religion is much worse by howardd21 · · Score: 1

      I said original state...from nothing.

      --
      no comment
    26. Re:Religion is much worse by strikethree · · Score: 1

      What you mean is that all families should be forced to be atheist, because you're an atheist.

      Hm. I am not seeing him say that. He is advocating NOT teaching someone something. Your argument would be true if he were advocating teaching children that there is/are no God/Gods.

      It really is amazing how many internet-atheists (not to be confused with the majority of quite reasonable atheists) are exactly as bad in the exact same ways as the religious people they hate so much.

      It is really amazing how many internet-religionists (not to be confused with the majority of quite reasonable religionists) are exactly as bad in the exact same ways as the atheist people they hate so much.

      Blah blah blah etc etc etc

      --
      "Someone needs to talk to the tree of liberty about its ghoulish drinking problem." by ohnocitizen
    27. Re:Religion is much worse by drinkypoo · · Score: 0

      I said original state...from nothing.

      From "nothing"? Now you're getting all metaphysical. We can only go back as far as we have evidence of conditions. We've shown all the necessary processes for the self-assembly of DNA in the lab, what more do you want? Do we have to start with vacuum to make you happy?

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    28. Re:Religion is much worse by floomp · · Score: 1

      Well, it wouldn't be an end to freedom of thought as long as you didn't censor information *about* religion (probably in an historical context). Instead, if you prevented parents from telling their kids "you are of X religion because we say so", then I think it would *increase* freedom of thought since kids would have a chance to look at religion from a more objective perspective without the indoctrination. (Not saying that this would be practical to enforce, however. It's more of a social issue.)

    29. Re:Religion is much worse by howardd21 · · Score: 1

      You just have to distinguish between the faith you mentioned when you said "Religion indoctrinates people into accepting things without proof, to forego critical thinking for statements from "authority"." (since faith is accepting things without proof) and the faith required to believe in something you did not see (like the original evolution of the universe without seeing that). My assumption is that neither is provable by evidence. So both require acceptance without proof, that is all.

      --
      no comment
    30. Re:Religion is much worse by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What you mean is that all families should be forced to be atheist, because you're an atheist. That would, after all, be the effect of banning exposure of religion to children, and your goal is clearly to make more atheists. You are advocating an end to freedom of thought -- forcing your personal beliefs on everyone.

      Here is where you are wrong. Children are, by default, born Atheist. Without religious indoctrination they would continue with their default, which is the lack of belief in invisible sky deities and no religious belief at all. When that happens religion will just whither away and die. Religious leaders do not want that so they are willing to do anything to brainwash *al* children, even if that means using violence taught in the fairy tale book you call the bible.

      It really is amazing how many internet-atheists (not to be confused with the majority of quite reasonable atheists) are exactly as bad in the exact same ways as the religious people they hate so much.

      Then prove to me your god exists and I will become xtian immediately. Oh you can't? Then it is xtians like you, not the Atheists like me, that are harming the growth of the human race, which is the goal of all religion.

    31. Re:Religion is much worse by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So besides pointing to traditional fossil forms or DNA polymorphisms or tonsils or domesticated animals or gene sequences or male nipples or common sense, how does one prove evolution?

    32. Re:Religion is much worse by AliasMarlowe · · Score: 1

      What you mean is that all families should be forced to be atheist, because you're an atheist. That would, after all, be the effect of banning exposure of religion to children, and your goal is clearly to make more atheists.

      My children have been told that they can join any religion they want, when they reach the age of about fifteen. Before then, they simply would not relize what they were doing. Does a five-year-old understand the differences between Shia and Sunni branches of Islam? Or know enough to choose between being a Baptist and being a Mormon? Such decisions will have a profound effect on their later lives. It is unfair to the children to expect religion to be transmitted from parent to child like a genetic flaw.

      Until they have gathered enough facts and a comparable level of maturity to make a reasoned decision, they have no business choosing a religion. Our kids are not exposed to religions at school and only peripherally exposed to them socially (some of their friends had religious indoctrination from an early age, others did not). Their grandparents are religious - one is very religious - but we are largely silent on the issue. We answer their questions in quite neutral ways, often including "that's not known, and might never be knowable with any confidence" for some queries.

      You are probably correct, however, in fearing that unindoctrinated kids will turn into atheists. My eldest has passed fifteen, and considers every religion she has encountered to be a collection of superstitions which are manipulated by fruitcakes for purposes which are often nasty. The few useful guidelines or truths they contain - buried in steaming piles of fantasy - are largely derived from decidedly non-religious social antecedents. She decided to become an atheist, and aspires to being an astronaut.

      --
      Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
    33. Re:Religion is much worse by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      both require acceptance without proof, that is all

      No, that is not all, it is false. Religion asks us to believe "this is what happened because I said so" without any evidence whatsoever. For example, there are zero historical eyewitness accounts of the Christ. By contrast, Science tells us "this is how it could have happened, and here are some experiments which you can replicate that show that it could have happened that way". It does not close the door to further refinement or even a superior, completely different theory which better explains the facts at hand. This is why science is more flexible than religion, which I believe makes it superior to religion's ability to make people believe things without evidence. That is powerful, but not as powerful as science's ability to account for changing understanding.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    34. Re:Religion is much worse by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      I think he was referring the fact that religious assembly is mandatory in school, and children are punished if they do not join in with prayer. Religious schools are even worse.

      The balance would seem to be to separate religion and state and to not allow religious schools, as the French do. If parents want to indoctrinate their kids that is fine, just as long as it doesn't extend to child abuse (like telling them they will go to hell and graphically describing the torture if they feel perfectly normal human feels such as homosexual attraction), or teaching hatred of others, or denying them an education. Children have human rights too.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    35. Re:Religion is much worse by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Evolution can also be simulated computationally.

    36. Re:Religion is much worse by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      Because religion isn't dangerous. Crazy people that use religion as an excuse for their actions are dangerous.

      Are you a True Scotsman or something?

      Of course Crazy people use religion as an excuse. Religion can turn whole countries into crazy people.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    37. Re:Religion is much worse by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Let it go man. You're talking to someone who doesn't have a clue that evolution and creationism are not things which can be compared to each other because they talk about two completely different things.

    38. Re:Religion is much worse by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      So accept that any group will have dissent, and when it is mentioned shouting "NO TRUE SCOTSMAN LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU" may be a little childish.

      So precise, so precise. So let us drop the "No True Scotsman" idiocy to say that "only insane people who have it wrong, and by have it wrong, we mean those who do not understand the correct religion as we do, and by insane, we mean people who do bad things like murdering in the name of their religion, and not doing it correctly, as we we do in religion as we practice it, because we know the right way to practice religion, and not those crazy people."

      In other words if 99 percent of religious people are crazies, we dare not generalize, because that 1 percent isn't crazy, so We cannot say that Religion is for crazy people. Yet each of the other 99 percent knows that the rest of them are nuts. So we must accept and cherish. Actually, "No True Scotsman" is a whole lot more convenient.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    39. Re:Religion is much worse by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Did you just put forth a premise that if someone is capable of critical thinking that they would automatically tend towards atheism?

      Is religion on such shaky ground that we are forced to indoctrinate children before they get to the age where they are capable of critical thinking or else end up with atheists?

      Did you really just say that the ability to make an intelligent decision is advocating an end to freedom of thought?

      Wow man, JUST... WOW!

    40. Re:Religion is much worse by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Some religious people have proof. And, no, for no topic, including religion, is it necessary for you to be given proof, for it to have been proven to them. And no, the New Testament does not say they are not "equal" (name any two people that are "equal", by the way), and the force is not "imaginary".

      Though you'll no doubt accept none of the above, the fact remains that all worldviews, including your preference, incorporate premises that haven't been proven to you either--because they can't be, because they are in the domain of ethics or politics or another domain of epistemology that simply isn't open to proof in either direction.

    41. Re:Religion is much worse by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      What you mean is that all families should be forced to be atheist, because you're an atheist.

      It's not like a lot of religions have forced themselves on people....

      Anyhow, I can't imagine a world where the little children are not allowed to hear about the Flying Spaghetti Monster - no one of us should be kept away from the touch of his noodly appendage.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    42. Re:Religion is much worse by Sibko · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Excuse me, but what exactly does being indoctrinated and exposed to atheism even fucking mean?

      You're /not/ forced to read the bible; you're /not/ forced to go to sunday school; you're /not/ forced to attend church; you're /not/ forced to believe in fairy tales. In fact, you're given the option to believe or disbelieve in all of these things. Yet somehow that's BAD? It's /wrong/ to be left fucking alone to make your own choice? Are you kidding me??

      Atheism isn't a religion you numbnuts. My own parents were Catholics - but my father and mother both decided that they wouldn't expose me to any church influences, my father because he didn't like the kind of control the church wanted over the life of our family. So I grew up without religion ever being shoved into my face. But neither were my parents Atheist. Did I immediately become an Atheist? No! Yet you seem to think that's what happens, it boggles my mind.

      I wound up not really even understanding religion until my late teens. It never made sense to me, and in my earlier years I saw it more as a fun thing 'Oh we believe stuff happened this way', 'Oh well we believe stuff happened this way', but I never thought people ever took it seriously until I saw a guy in my class chew a girl out and tell her she was a whore and going to hell for being a lesbian. That sort of intolerance absolutely stunned me, I couldn't believe something like that didn't even get him reprimanded or sent to the principals office.

      I started reading about the different religions myself, I was never even exposed to Atheism at any point in school - Though I distinctly remember one girl asking me "Are you an Atheist" and my response being "No.", and her reply being "Good."; I didn't even know what an Atheist was. I wound up bouncing between Taoism and Buddhism as 'personal religions I thought were interesting and could subscribe myself to' (I felt as though everyone /had/ to have a religion.) until I eventually witnessed an argument in an IRC chatroom, and actually discovered what Atheism was.

      I read about it on wikipedia like I did before with the major religions, I saw rational arguments about inconsistencies in the bible, and I honestly didn't like the idea of not having a god or afterlife or anything, it wasn't fun. But it was rational, it all made sense, it didn't require belief in fairy tales or nonsense. I /couldn't/ be anything else without lying to myself. I didn't choose Atheism, not like I did when I got into Taoism and Buddhism, all I did was choose not to believe in the lies or fairytales of a religion, simply because I could see it all for what it was.

      Are you worried more people will be like me? Making their own choices and their own decisions? Do you honestly believe every Atheist household has parents reading Richard Dawkin's to their children or something? Does it not, for a single moment, occur to you that maybe, just maybe, the LACK of any indoctrination is what ultimately leads a rational thinker to Atheism?

      Is that what you're afraid of? People making their own goddamned decisions? "An end to freedom of thought" my arse! The end of freedom of thought is already here, perpetuated by people like yourself who try to demonize freedom and choice, with your fucking doublethink and twisted definitions. /Not/ being exposed to religion isn't indoctrination and I'm frankly amazed you got modded up with that kind of doubleplusungood argument.

    43. Re:Religion is much worse by myowntrueself · · Score: 1

      religion gets in the brain and rots it away, early on.

      Thats mainly monotheism. The problem with monotheism is that it requires its believers to cultivate a mental exclusivity; what we believe is right and everything else is wrong to the point of requiring eradication. It cannot tolerate questions or doubt. It discourages critical thinking and requires obedience first and foremost.

      Lots of other things called 'religion' are nothing like this.

      --
      In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
    44. Re:Religion is much worse by myowntrueself · · Score: 1

      If more Christians focused on acting like Christians they'd be setting an example that others would respect rather than becoming some imaginary force that is trying to control people's lives.

      But which version of christianity? That preached by the original Jesus (and how do we really know what that was? For sure it was a sect of judaism)? The christianity warped after Jesus death, altered to make it more acceptable to heathens like the Greeks (removing the dietary restrictions, circumcision, basically making it not judaism)? The christianity of the dark ages? Modern Korean christianity? Evangelism? The list could go on and on...

      --
      In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
    45. Re:Religion is much worse by Arker · · Score: 1

      Evolution is observed daily by anyone working on population genetics.

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      =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
      Friends don't let friends enable ecmascript.
    46. Re:Religion is much worse by Nyder · · Score: 2

      I'll second this -- and I'll do it openly, not as an AC.
      Children should be protected from religion until the age of 18, so they have some chance of actually making an intelligent decision about it, rather than being indoctrinated/brainwashed by it while their brains are still forming.

      That doesn't even make sense.

      I was going to church when I was a kid, till I was 15. Had to go, everyone considered the bible the word of god and law.

      Only problem was, at 15, I decided I was sick of the bullshit, the lies, and that god doesn't exist and religions are very man made.

      I wasn't religious to begin with, and no amount of forcing it on me made me religious. I saw it for what it is. Other people? It doesn't matter, they can NOT see it for what it is, just what others want it to be. I'm not sure you can help those people.

      --
      Be seeing you...
    47. Re:Religion is much worse by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      go f yourself, no i don't bow to authority, especially you ftard, you have no "critical thoughts", the new testament isn't about bowing to anyone, it's about living... and so you missed the point. time to re-read, although by your puke statements you never read, only assumed: aka sucked the communist cock... mmmm, you said. .

    48. Re:Religion is much worse by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are a few assumptions you have to make to function in this world. Making those assumptions is a hell of a lot more reasonable than making up random bullshit about magical sky daddies.

      No, religious people do not have proof anymore than I have proof of the flying spaghetti monster; they're just idiots who cannot understand that when something is unknown, you don't just make up random theories about it and say those theories are true because you can't think of another explanation.

      It's funny how religious people try to justify their blind faith by claiming that other people do it, too (even when it's not similar at all).

    49. Re:Religion is much worse by KeensMustard · · Score: 1
      Would atheist parents really be willing to not indoctrinate their children? This seems unlikely, given the effort expended by many to not allow their children to be exposed to alternative points of view.

      What make you think that children can't simply change their minds when they get older? Happens all the time.

    50. Re:Religion is much worse by Jedi+Alec · · Score: 1

      Worst of all, religion denies all of man's achievements, ascribing them instead to an all-mighty deity who simply bequeaths them on a whim. What a wonderful belief system ... not.

      I saw this the other day on some school project of a 6 year old. They were constructing some sort of gift card to thank God for their daily bread. For some reason her mother, who is the one that works her ass off to actually provide said bread, seems to approve of this.

      Insanity breeds insanity.

      --

      People replying to my sig annoy me. That's why I change it all the time.
    51. Re:Religion is much worse by Jedi+Alec · · Score: 1

      And I expect that within your community you were the exception, with a nice amount of disapproval and social pressure as a result?

      In your case the brainwashing didn't take, good for you. Many are less lucky and proceed to do the same to the next generation.

      --

      People replying to my sig annoy me. That's why I change it all the time.
    52. Re:Religion is much worse by don.g · · Score: 1

      That's your opinion, that 99% of religious people are crazy. You're welcome to believe that. Demonise them all you want. Sure, we can be a mixed bag. But religious people I know feed the hungry, house the homeless, and give a caring ear to people locked away in prison who need someone stable and normal to talk to. And part of that is because of their religion. Not because they feel obligated to do these things to earn God Points, to be redeemed for quality of housing in the afterlife. But because they believe that it's the right thing to do -- that they are merely passing on the love they recieve from their creator to those around them who really need it. They may be crazy but the craziness doesn't sound like its results are something I'd want to discourage.

      You appear to be widening "no true scotsman" from "no true christian" to "no true religious person"... which is casting the net so wide it's getting close to suggesting that you are a member of the right thinking set, and everyone else is a member of the wrong thinking set. And those other people (why does it always have to be other people) are wrong and evil and can be tarred with one big bad brush. They *all* hate teh gays, they all want to blow us up, they all vote for the wrong person, they all ...

      This is quite similar thinking to that used to demonise teh gays, people with the wrong colour skin, foreigners and immigrants, poor people, rich people, people who vote for the other guy (at least seemingly in the US). They're all still people, and keeping up the lie that they're different and bad really only works if you carefully avoid getting to know them (or make special dispensation for the ones you do). If everyone who disagrees with you has to be fought, you're going to end up with a very boring circle of friends, and the world will be that much poorer.

      --
      Pretend that something especially witty is here. Thanks.
    53. Re:Religion is much worse by kheldan · · Score: 1

      Ah, I see. And organized religion is so much better? Check yourself before you start pointing a finger at me.

      --
      Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
    54. Re:Religion is much worse by kheldan · · Score: 1

      What I want to see is children encouraged to question everything and be taught to think critically, not have a doctrine pounded into their heads literally from birth to the point where even as adults they can't shake it and think for themselves.

      --
      Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
    55. Re:Religion is much worse by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fuck you, theocratic douchebag, and the pedowaggon you rode in on. I think religion should be totally banned. It has done enough damage to society. Religious people deserve no respect.

    56. Re:Religion is much worse by kheldan · · Score: 1

      My eldest has passed fifteen, and considers every religion she has encountered to be a collection of superstitions which are manipulated by fruitcakes for purposes which are often nasty. The few useful guidelines or truths they contain - buried in steaming piles of fantasy - are largely derived from decidedly non-religious social antecedents. She decided to become an atheist, and aspires to being an astronaut.

      Good for her. She sounds like a delightfully intelligent and thoughtful young lady who will likely go far in whatever interests she chooses to pursue. As for you sir: Good job. :-)

      --
      Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
    57. Re:Religion is much worse by kheldan · · Score: 1

      The things you refer to here are, in a large part, the sort of abuses of human rights in general that I would like to see stopped. That, and if I never ever again hear of some asshole throwing acid in a little girl's face because she dared to go to school to learn to read and write, it'll still be too soon for me.

      --
      Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
    58. Re:Religion is much worse by kheldan · · Score: 1

      It's not like a lot of religions have forced themselves on people....

      Parents of children will take them to church, usually not giving them a choice, because the parents believe that it's the right thing to do.

      --
      Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
    59. Re:Religion is much worse by kheldan · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Are you worried more people will be like me? Making their own choices and their own decisions?

      See, leaders of organized religon do fear you and people like you, because people who think for themselves and make their own decisions, free of the bias that relgious leaders feed them, threaten their power base.

      --
      Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
    60. Re:Religion is much worse by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How would families ne athiest when their parent would belong to some religion. Kids would not be part of any religion until they are adult enough to choose one. It seems you are against freedom of choice.

    61. Re:Religion is much worse by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is a stupid argument. Parents don't "let their child make up his own mind" about whether stealing is wrong or not, or about whether it's OK to be racist, sexist, homophobic or anything else-ist. Parents don't let their child decide whether not not to brush his teeth at bedtime, or whether to do his homework. Vegan parents don't serve meat three times a week to give their child the chance to "make his own mind up" about veganism.

      Just about everything a parent does is teaching a child how to behave, and how not to behave. If parents are religious, of course they're going to teach their child the truth as they know it. Presumably a religious parent considers it important to be a faithful $x, and to follow God's law (or whatever) and so on, and if it is important, of course you're going to teach it to your children. If a parent doesn't consider it important to teach his religion to his children, then perhaps he's not really very religious. It sounds like your parents were the kind of "Catholic" who get married and buried in the church, and might show up for Mass at Christmas, but nothing else. In other words, they're culturally Catholic, but content to burble along with their lives without paying God much attention. They're not religious.

    62. Re:Religion is much worse by MillerHighLife21 · · Score: 1

      It doesn't ask people to forego critical thinking on any level. Most of the strongest people of faith that I have ever met strongly questioned every ounce of it. Coming full circle made them stronger in their faith.

      I was basically a card carrying atheist for 6 years for exactly the reasons that you describe. Logically, you can't prove God exists and it's easy to feel like people who believe in God are just these mindless creatures walking about who shouldn't be allowed to vote. When you get your life directly changed in a manner that is completely unexplainable by anything short of God...you re-evaluate. That's what happened to me. I struggled with something that I couldn't control for 2 years to the point that I was consumed by it and couldn't do anything about it on my own. I've never felt so helpless against myself. My wife asked me if I'd ever asked God for help and of course I hadn't but I thought "sure, what the heck." What happened next was unreal. I had a dream that the pain was just pulled out of me and when I woke up the next morning...it was gone. Permanently. Something I'd struggled with for 2 years was gone like the flip of a light switch.

      I have no explanation for that. You don't know me so you have no reason to believe that story and I fully understand that. I couldn't prove it if you paid me, any more than I could prove a stranger on the street stopped me an asked me a question. It happened though, my life changed. I started reading the Bible after that and in it Paul talks specifically on multiple occasions about exactly what happened to me. It's erie and amazing. It wasn't the last time it happened either and I've become a better person for each occurrence.

      I'm a logical guy with a master's degree and a very successful programming career. I'm used to things that I can control, understand and make sense. This was completely out of that realm. If it had just been some random hallucination it would have been easy to write off. The lasting effect is what makes it impossible to ignore (for me, I'm sure other people will be able to ignore it without fail).

      --
      "Don't teach a man to fish, feed yourself. He's a grown man. Fishing's not that hard." - Ron Swanson
    63. Re:Religion is much worse by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 1
      "Freedom of speech is too precious a freedom to be meddled with..... And since I am sure of this in general, and since I'd expect most of you to be so too, I shall probably shock you when I say it is the purpose of my lecture tonight to argue in one particular area just the opposite. To argue, in short, in favour of censorship against freedom of expression, and to do so in an area of life that has traditionally been regarded as sacrosanct. I am talking about moral and religious education. And especially the education a child receives at home....parents (have) no god-given licence to enculturate their children in whatever ways they personally choose....in short, children have the right not to have their minds addled by (religion). And we as a society have a duty to protect them from it. So we should no more allow parents to teach their children to believe, for example, the literal truth of the Bible, or that the planets rule their lives, than we should allow parents to knock their children's teeth out or lock them in a dungeon. That's the negative side of what I want to say. But there will be a positive side as well. If children have a right to be protected from false ideas, they have too a right to be succored by the truth. And we as a society have a duty to provide it."

      -- Nicholas Humphrey, addressing Amnesty International

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    64. Re:Religion is much worse by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When you get your life directly changed in a manner that is completely unexplainable by anything short of God...you re-evaluate.

      So basically, your life changed and you think god did it. The old, "I can't explain this phenomena so I'm going to make up random bullshit and claim it's true."

      I'm a logical guy

      I'm sure you are, but you're certainly not very logical about this specific issue.

    65. Re:Religion is much worse by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      On the other hand, you can also executed, jailed, etc, killed for having a religion or even a differing view point, so I'd say we've come full circle without really making an improvement.

      Atheism also has it's imaginary, ideal effects and it's real results. We've already seen what happens when some people get a hold of atheism and make it part of their program.

      Oh, I'm sorry, no true freethinking atheist would kill people for not following their philosophy, those were fake atheists. Only "superstition" could possibly have a negative real effect.

    66. Re:Religion is much worse by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      If you're alluding to Hitler and/or Stalin and/or Mao and/or Pol Pot, the deaths of the people they had killed had absolutely nothing to do with their religion (or lack thereof). Those people were killed because they got in the way, or made convenient examples, or both.

      Using your logic, we can just as easily say that Christianity is evil. After all, Vlad the Impaler was a devout Christian, wasn't he?

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    67. Re:Religion is much worse by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      Then for the rest of your statement, Galatians 3:28.

      Okay...

      Stop being so ignorant and start thinking and studying for yourself, we will all be better off.

      Whuh...?

      That is the fucking funniest thing I've read all morning. Thanks for the laugh.

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    68. Re:Religion is much worse by Cederic · · Score: 1

      I wouldn't force families to be atheist. I would punish child abuse, which includes brainwashing them to believe in artificial constructs designed to control and exploit them.

      You are advocating an end to freedom of thought -- forcing your personal beliefs on everyone.

      Was he? He believes that people should be able to make a decision for themselves, not be indoctrinated into a belief system that they never had the chance to question and refuse.

    69. Re:Religion is much worse by YttriumOxide · · Score: 1

      Because religion isn't dangerous. Crazy people that use religion as an excuse for their actions are dangerous.

      With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil—that takes religion. - Steven Weinberg

      I don't disagree that crazy people use religion to justify their actions; but this quote is pretty accurate in my experience. Additionally, it's worth noting that without the vast majority of "moderate" religious folk, the crazies wouldn't have as much justification for their actions. They may or may not still do those actions, but when religion gets involved, they are able to point to "millions of other believers". Both Christianity and Islam have good examples of this in recent history.

      Further to that, further divisions are made, inspiring hate where none is deserved. How many Christians hate all Muslims these days because of the actions of a few extremists? If these extremists were not identified as muslim, but just "some batshit crazy people", the hatred of perfectly innocent Muslims would be significant lower.

      So, it's not just the religion itself that causes problems, but indeed even the perception of the religion as dividing people in to "groups" that have no sensible reason to exist.

      Christians SHOULD be people that everybody on earth is happy to see because we are supposed to strive to be humble, helpful, loving, charitable and self controlled.

      That'd be nice, but as you said, it doesn't happen. Even more so, why do you need Christianity to do that? Why wrap it all up in mysticism and multiple thousand year old fairy-tales? Why not be humble, helpful, loving, charitable and self-controlled WITHOUT religion?

      The Bible is playbook to being a better person (New Testament)

      The New Testament does not stand alone. It often references the Old Testament, both indirectly and directly. Furthermore, God is said to be omnipotent and omnipresent - including throughout time. You absolutely can't take the New Testament as true without accepting the Old Testament. The God of the Old Testament is quite simply a dickish kind of deity. Petty, cruel and quick to anger. Why anyone would choose to worship such a being is beyond me; even given the stretch that people are crazy enough to believe the stories.

      If however you simply take the entire Bible to be a set of stories with morals and ideas to live by without believing any of the mysticism then:
      a) You're not religious; any more than I am for learning life lessons from Grimm's Fairy Tales as a child;
      b) You need to find better morals and ideas, since those espoused in the Bible may have been suitable one and a half millennia ago, but don't hold up so well for our world today.

      --
      My book about LSD and Self-Discovery
      Also on facebook as: DroppingAcidDaleBewan
    70. Re:Religion is much worse by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      Being religious is not a prerequisite for having or performing acts of compassion, nor for recognising human beings as such.

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    71. Re:Religion is much worse by YttriumOxide · · Score: 1

      What I want to see is children encouraged to question everything and be taught to think critically, not have a doctrine pounded into their heads literally from birth to the point where even as adults they can't shake it and think for themselves.

      Interestingly, my step-father is a minister in the Anglican church. He's also a physicist/teacher. He taught me to think critically, question everything and use logic to deduce the best course of action that is based on the most likely situation given the variables.

      These days, we tend to have rather large arguments over religion... In my view, it's the way he raised me that lead me to atheism as the only viable and realistic situation our universe could have. In his view, logic and critical thinking point towards the absolute necessity for a creator. And again in my view, he's weighting the variables incorrectly (the "feeling" of "Jesus being in his life" is something he gives a lot of weight to; whereas since I understand brain chemistry better than he does, I give significantly less weight to)

      My wife is a "weak" Christian and our daughter has been baptised in the church; however I will be raising her to question everything just as I was. I fully expect she'll drop the mystical beliefs sometime in her teen years (as most kids drop the Tooth Fairy, Easter Bunny, Santa Claus and so on), if not earlier.

      If she does grow up to be Christian, I'll be a little disappointed, but I'll enjoy our arguments as I do with my step-father. (I don't argue these things with my wife - she's not really the critical thinking type and so just assumes I'm being mean instead of trying to have a fun argument)

      --
      My book about LSD and Self-Discovery
      Also on facebook as: DroppingAcidDaleBewan
    72. Re:Religion is much worse by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      It is unfair to the children to expect religion to be transmitted from parent to child like a genetic flaw.

      That's pretty much the same comparison that I like to draw, yeah.

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    73. Re:Religion is much worse by kheldan · · Score: 1

      Next time you see your step-father? Please tell him for me, "Good job raising your son", and I don't in any way shape or form mean that in a sarcastic way; he accomplished his goal with you, and the world is a fractionally better place because of it. I don't hate religion in and of itself, I hate the blind, thoughtless acceptance of it, and I hate it being used as a tool to gather and maintain power over the masses that it has largely become.

      --
      Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
    74. Re:Religion is much worse by couchslug · · Score: 1

      There have been ZERO governments BASED on "atheism".

      There have been governments which replaced theism with "cult of personality"/politics as religion.

      Thanks for playing, you lose again.

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
    75. Re:Religion is much worse by Patch86 · · Score: 1

      Well, aside from other obvious reasons- the UK is technically a theocratic country with a state religion. The head of state (the Queen) is also head of the Church of England, and bishops get 25 seats in Parliament (the House of Lords- the upper house) without needing to be elected.

      I mean obviously that doesn't make much difference in a modern context, but it does give the Religious Right rather a lot of ammunition whenever anyone suggests anything that might not be to a Christian's tastes. For example, see the gay marriage furore.

    76. Re:Religion is much worse by don.g · · Score: 1

      Ok so what I was trying to say was two things -- religion can cause people to do good things, and that disagreeing with other parts of a group you are in (by choice or not) is a normal part of human existence.

      I'm not claiming that being religious is a prerequisite for recognising other people as human beings. But if you're claiming "99% of religious people are insane" it would suggest that maybe you are not thinking of those people as human beings, merely wrong-thinking automatons.

      --
      Pretend that something especially witty is here. Thanks.
    77. Re:Religion is much worse by DeeEff · · Score: 1

      No True Scotsman is a crappy fallacy people knowing nothing of church history

      Actually, it's not a "crappy fallacy." It's a legitimate one. You're twisting the word Christian the wrong way here.

      First off, Christian basically means any religion that believes in Christ as the son of God (Abrahamic). This could mean Roman Catholic, Protestant, Mormon, Baptist, and I'm sure many more. They are all still Christians. If you think of it this way, dissent means nothing. Many people can "dissent" all they want, but if they aren't separating the label they use to describe themselves, they can still be committing the fallacy of No True Scotsman.

      Take for example the following scenario:
      Person A is eccentric and extremist in his opinions on religion. He takes the bible as literal fact and believes that Christ is his saviour and that gays are evil and sex before marriage deserves to have you stoned on the city wall.
      Person B is tolerant, thinks that while Christ is his saviour, that we should still love everybody and that most of the bible consists of old traditions that aren't in line with proper human values because it was formed by a culture that existed long before much of our current knowledge.

      The requisite to being a Christian is accepting Christ as the Son of God (in this case, we'll say Christ as a saviour of our sins, or a messiah is equivalent to that). Both persons are therefore Christian. If either Person A or Person B accuse the other of not being true Christians because they don't share the same opinions on all topics that their religion or system of beliefs stems from, then they are committing a fallacy where they are changing the definition of the predicate being a Christian to suit their personal opinion. That is the No True Scotsman fallacy. It's got nothing to do with history, it's everything to do with logic and the meaning of a term.

      But religious people I know feed the hungry, house the homeless, and give a caring ear to people locked away in prison who need someone stable and normal to talk to. And part of that is because of their religion. Not because they feel obligated to do these things to earn God Points, to be redeemed for quality of housing in the afterlife. But because they believe that it's the right thing to do -- that they are merely passing on the love they recieve from their creator to those around them who really need it.

      Part of it may be due to religion, however, I feel that this is simply confusing correlation with causation. From the very beginning humans knew that they needed the strength of a community to survive. Helping out your community (religious or otherwise) has long been the "right thing to do." They don't need to pass on any love of any creator for this to be possible. Our current survival is proof enough to show that humans use communities and cultures to survive, and that taking care of your neighbour means that he/she will eventually take care of you (in the broadest sense, some neighbours are dicks). This is the very concept behind social safety nets.

      But if you're claiming "99% of religious people are insane" it would suggest that maybe you are not thinking of those people as human beings, merely wrong-thinking automatons.

      An automaton can't even be insane by definition, since insanity is defined as being in a state of mind that prevents normal perception, behavior, or social interaction; seriously mentally ill. If they were automatons, they would always be in normal perception or behaviour relative to their default state. However, if we go under the assumption that people who believe in deities are in a state of mind where they cannot perceive things normally (or objectively, aka as things are), then "99% of religious people are insane" is a true statement. I don't personally believe that 99% of religious people are actually insane, but history tends to show that religion has been mor

    78. Re:Religion is much worse by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Empirical scientific peer reviewed studies in this of GTFO you anti-science anti-religion bigot. It seems you hate the majority of the people in the world, who by the way are religious in some form.

      Honestly, there is no linkage between being religious and not being able to think critically or not being a good scientist.
      In fact often GNU atheists like yourself are more likely to have such issues as I've demonstrated.

      At least be honest about it and admit that you're just an anti-religious ideologue. You fail at critical thinking yourself not examining your own assumptions.

      By the way, if there is no God, and no meaning in life, why do you care that religion exists or not. There is no meaning or purpose to any of this and you're just an accident. Your idea that somehow you're important, what you have to say is important, needs to be said or that truth is important is a mere evolutionary adaptation which is divorced from any intrinsic meaning. Read Alex Rosenberg.

      The only rational atheist is the atheist who realises he doesn't really exist and everything he says is meaningless, as is his entire life and his delusional aspirations. Be kind enough to be consistent in that regard.

    79. Re:Religion is much worse by scared+masked+man · · Score: 1

      Obvious rebuttal: "In that case, let's reintroduce the laws against anyone who has received a Christian education or professed the Christian faith denying the teaching of the Established Church. Hmm, it turns out they're happy with gay marriage, even for clergy, so it looks like seven years in the slammer for you. Just be glad we're such wimpy progressives, or we'd be looking for some firewood right about now."

    80. Re:Religion is much worse by MillerHighLife21 · · Score: 1

      And that's exactly why there's know way I'll be able to convince you and I fully understand that. All I can tell you is that I was as fully rooted in anti-religious attitudes as you are today, for all the reasons that you anybody would be and what happened was drastic enough, shocking enough, that it left me with no doubt.

      Imagine exactly where you are mentally, with your views on religion, God, etc and then picture what it would take to convince you. That's the level of convincing I got. I went from exactly where you are to tithing 10% of my gross paycheck without hesitation and volunteering at a local church (non-denominational). Imagine how convinced you'd have to be to do that 180 - that's how convinced I am.

      --
      "Don't teach a man to fish, feed yourself. He's a grown man. Fishing's not that hard." - Ron Swanson
    81. Re:Religion is much worse by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No True Scotsman is a crappy fallacy people blah blah blah

      Oh really? If that's the case then I guess those "Atheists" that commit crimes are not true Atheists. After all no true Atheist will ever commit a crime. Which would mean only religionists are criminals. Another reason to outgrow religion and eventually ban it.

  10. Suspicious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Reading the Telegraph (fairly respectable paper) article, it actually links back to a story on the Daily Mail.

    Since the latter is a hate-filled gutter rag that makes up whatever lies suit its agenda, I'd suggest taking this story with a vary large pinch of salt.

    1. Re:Suspicious by Grumbleduke · · Score: 1

      Reading the Telegraph (fairly respectable paper)...

      Unless it's talking about anything to do with liberals, the EU, the ECHR, human rights, the judiciary, regulation of the media, the Internet...

      But no, this plan has been in the works for a while now - there was a consultation over the summer (run by the Department of Education of all people) on how to protect children from evil things online (including non-traditional religions and political views), and the underlying move to "do something about the Internet" has been around for a few years. I think it is an attempt to win support from the Daily Mail (who want to make sure that children have to go to their site to view pictures of scantily-clad women).

      I think the only part they've got wrong (having not read either the Telegraph or DM articles, but having read some of the briefing material earlier in the year) is that this is about buying a new computer. I think it is only about signing up to a new ISP account. In theory the ISPs were supposed to be doing this voluntarily, but I guess the DM wanted the government to do more - so yay for more pointless legislation.

    2. Re:Suspicious by maroberts · · Score: 2

      Reading the Telegraph (fairly respectable paper) article, it actually links back to a story on the Daily Mail.

      Since the latter is a hate-filled gutter rag that makes up whatever lies suit its agenda, I'd suggest taking this story with a vary large pinch of salt.

      Correction, the latter is a hate-filled gutter rag read by a huge part of middle class England which believes what it prints (which is the real problem)

      --

      Donte Alistair Anderson Roberts - hi son!
      Karma: Chameleon

    3. Re:Suspicious by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 1

      Reading the Telegraph (fairly respectable paper) article, it actually links back to a story on the Daily Mail.

      Since the latter is a hate-filled gutter rag that makes up whatever lies suit its agenda, I'd suggest taking this story with a vary large pinch of salt.

      Correction, the latter is a hate-filled gutter rag read by a huge part of middle class England which believes what it prints (which is the real problem)

      So, it's like the Wall Street Journal - especially the Op-Ed pages - as read by rich people in the US ?

      --
      It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
    4. Re:Suspicious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Traditionally, the Telegraph is read by Conservative-voting men who go to work in a suit, and the Mail is read by their wives.

  11. To get around it by epp_b · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "No, I don't have any kids."

    At least until it becomes illegal to answer untruthfully.

    1. Re:To get around it by Anne+Thwacks · · Score: 1

      If it is illegal to answer questions untruthfully, we can expect the jails to be overflowing with politicians in very short shrift!

      --
      Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
    2. Re:To get around it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      as well as a series of questions on how stringent they wish the restrictions to be,

      Problem solved. There will be a filter setting "Leaks like from Esther's ass", to directly translating a saying from my native language.

  12. Just porn? by symes · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I don't mind this - I think a lot of people who buy computers are not particularly, shall we say, well versed in protecting themselves. If this could also be bundled with some firm general advice it might help. One of my kids, visiting their grandparents, managed to conjure up some pretty sordid images of bestiality in no time by just googling one of her hobbies, horse riding. It was a bit of a shock for all concerned. No harm done, as far as I can tell (I wasn't there). I am however fairly sure her grandparents would have preferred that this had not happened and were able to take steps to prevent it from happening. At the moment, a lot of people are exposed to the internet in it's raw form and this isn't necessarily something that is healthy - giving people the choice of restricting their browsing freedom might be welcomed.

    1. Re:Just porn? by 1u3hr · · Score: 2, Interesting

      One of my kids, visiting their grandparents, managed to conjure up some pretty sordid images of bestiality in no time by just googling one of her hobbies

      He did it on purpose. Google by default has "safe search" and you have to uncheck it to get porn results. Unless grandpa did it.

    2. Re:Just porn? by Grumbleduke · · Score: 1

      In another article on this subject the Daily Mail wanted to show how easy it was to find porn online (and why Google was to blame), so showed a screenshot of a Google search (normal search, not image) for "porn" and highlighted the massive number of results. What they failed to point out was that with safe search on (to maximum) you get 0 results.

      Which is kind of silly - you'd think you'd at least get dictionary results...

    3. Re:Just porn? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, as long as it is attached with a guarantee of secrecy with the penalty of death for every member of govt if the secrecy is broken for any reason, including but not limited to govt and law enforcement reasons.
        Any lawyer trying to use such data for/against a client would be immediately shot in the head.
      Then, and only then is such data collection acceptable
      (Same should apply to URL logs as of today)

    4. Re:Just porn? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well said. There are many weaknesses in human nature. And the success of a large part of the internet economy involves exploiting those flaws. Not always intentionally. I don't see much difference between porn, gaming, facebook or most news sites in their ability to exploit those weaknesses. Most people running these business like to say people dont have to visit our sites they can always leave.

      And this has the same ring to it as those wall street bankers who said its not our fault that people bought those mortgages. Of course it was. Its always a case of the intelligent exploiting the unintelligent. And there is nothing right about it. Might as well bring back slavery and the caste system.

    5. Re:Just porn? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      and of course the article

    6. Re:Just porn? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > I don't mind this

      But you will pay it. Even if you live in another country, this makes it more likely that it will happen in your country also.

    7. Re:Just porn? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I suspect that there are certain queries for which Google's filter will return absolutely no results because they are so likely to otherwise return a vastly disproportionate number of pornographic results. An image search for "porn" is probably a good example.

    8. Re:Just porn? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Maybe, but not necessarily. First, I think Google only filters images by default, not regular results, so it's possible that *she* clicked a link in the results and was directed to the wrong kind of site. Also, Google's filter isn't perfect, especially in the age of user-generated content. There are always new blogs, Tubmlrs, and other pages blinking in and out of existence, and some of these sites offer very little useful metadata to search engine spiders, so it's not always possible for Google to infer what is porn and what isn't. I have performed many innocent image searches on Google with SafeSearch enabled and seen the occasional pornographic image mixed in with the rest, so it's not unthinkable that the same could happen to a naive child.

    9. Re:Just porn? by kheldan · · Score: 3, Insightful

      See, here's the problem with that: Net-nanny software doesn't work for several reasons. Desired content gets inadvertently blocked. Undesired content manages to get through. Whitelists and blacklists, when managed by third parties (especially governments) end up reflecting someone's agenda, rather than the actual intent (i.e. it'll eventually end up being used as a tool for censorship instead of a tool for protecting children). Your best way of protecting your children from internet content you don't want them seeing? Monitor them personally; sit there with them when they're using the internet. If you don't have time or wherewithall to do that, then perhaps you should either tell them "no internet" or re-evaluate your priorities in life.
      Remember: when you vote away your right to choose, you usually don't get to vote to take it back again.

      --
      Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
    10. Re:Just porn? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or, thanks to the news, a picture of David Cameron.

    11. Re:Just porn? by MisterSquid · · Score: 1

      One of my kids, visiting their grandparents, managed to conjure up some pretty sordid images of bestiality in no time by just googling one of her hobbies, horse riding.

      I have safe search turned off in Google and I searched on "horse riding" and I see what you mean.

      --
      blog
    12. Re:Just porn? by 1u3hr · · Score: 1

      not unthinkable that the same could happen to a naive child.

      If you're naive enough to believe the "child" is that naive.

      Any boy who can use Google -- what is he going to look for? (And I don't exclude girls, just know more about how males think.)

      And if you read TFA you see comments there about how awful it is that all the kiddie porn sites aren't blocked -- though I haven't seen anything remotely like kiddie porn in years on any website, and I frequent some pretty sleazy sites. That's really underground and you don't just "find" it.

    13. Re:Just porn? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Right, because all children who see porn do so intentionally. It's just so unlikely that a girl could ACCIDENTALLY stumble upon porn on the internet. She must have been lustily searching for hardcore images of people fucking animals and claiming to "like horsies" as a cover for her fetish when she was finally caught.

      Good call.

    14. Re:Just porn? by Kjella · · Score: 1

      He did it on purpose. Google by default has "safe search" and you have to uncheck it to get porn results. Unless grandpa did it.

      He would be a she if you read the GP again, you really think little girls intentionally seek bestiality? I think you vastly overrate Google's "safe search", it's pretty good at recognizing human tits, pussy and dick but horses tend to run around naked all the time so if you have a scantily clad woman doing naughty things to a horse that may not be caught. I've certainly seen NSFW images slip through Google's filter from time to time, it's a 99% filter not perfect. Of course this isn't really a good argument for porn filters since Google already has one, any other filter wouldn't be perfect either.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    15. Re:Just porn? by Nyder · · Score: 1

      One of my kids, visiting their grandparents, managed to conjure up some pretty sordid images of bestiality in no time by just googling one of her hobbies

      He did it on purpose. Google by default has "safe search" and you have to uncheck it to get porn results. Unless grandpa did it.

      First off, the poster said "her hobbies" so that rules Grandpa out. And second, bestiality is one of her hobbies? Is she hot? Can I get her phone number?

      --
      Be seeing you...
    16. Re:Just porn? by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 1

      I don't mind this

      "Just religious websites? I don't mind this."

      Just because some people don't like porn doesn't mean that this should happen. We don't need to be 'protected' from it, either.

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
    17. Re:Just porn? by 10101001+10101001 · · Score: 1

      Where does it end, though? You speak of "the internet in [its] raw form", yet the internet only portrays a very small part of reality itself. As repellent and sordid and shocking those images of "horse riding" were, there is much, much worse things in reality. And to protect "children", all the other mediums (newspapers, radio, TV) consistently self-censor that content. Hell, whenever any other medium even begins to really show the "raw form" of reality, there's calls to ban the works or to cry out how it's all being done for ratings and shock--look no further than rap music.

      Yet in doing this, I think most people speak against these things not for "children" but for themselves. It's better to hear a few chilling numbers of people being killed than to see their bloody corpses. It's easier to ban a few foul worded rap songs than to hear the horrors of the ghetto. Do you see a pattern? Censorship or even self-censorship are the things that help turn a blind eye to the problems that we, the people, either cause or refuse to help fix. For instead of figuring out more about "horse riding" and seeing if (a) it's healthy over all and the shame/disdain should be removed or (b) it's unhealthy and the people involved should be helped, you want to just turn your eyes away.

      For the children, indeed.

      PS - And yes, there are indeed shock sites for the sake of shock and assholes who seek merely to offend. But I think it a disservice to your children to merely try to block this truth than to try to educate them. It's a much harder thing to teach a child how to discern good from evil, bad from merely a preference, and where the line should be that one should help out another or merely mind one's own business. It's certainly not so clear as to use a static piece of software to do the job or to pretend that any other person or parent is in a position to really indirectly teach your child what you yourself should be instilling in them. Yea, that does invariably translate into tons of awkward moments where you have to give satisfying answers to exactly what "horse riding" is and why such content exists. But, then, a large part of that awkwardness stems from probably not having a good answer for oneself. And it's through one's children that one vicariously gets to relive childhood and hopefully do a better job at removing that awkwardness for the next generation.

      --
      Eurohacker European paranoia, gun rights, and h
    18. Re:Just porn? by 1u3hr · · Score: 1

      First off, the poster said "her hobbies" so that rules Grandpa out. I meant that the PC was logged in as him, and he could have changed the account preference.

    19. Re:Just porn? by symes · · Score: 1

      He did it on purpose. Google by default has "safe search" and you have to uncheck it to get porn results. Unless grandpa did it

      The elderly gentleman concerned might be the root cause of the problem, indeed.

    20. Re:Just porn? by bongomanaic · · Score: 1

      I don't agree that the choices for parents trying to do their best should be limited to total surveillance of their children or total abstinence from internet use. The Internet is not just a toy for geeks any more, it is an important part of culture and community. Good parenting is as much about setting boundaries and allowing children freedom within those boundaries. The problem is that setting up and managing your own content filters demands skills that most people don't have and, with increasing numbers of internet-connected devices in homes, device-level filtering is becoming impractical. For most parents who want to place boundaries on their children's internet use the only reasonable way to do this is an off-the-peg solution at ISP level. The only burden on those who want an unfiltered connection is an extra click when signing up for a new ISP, which is a very small price to pay for the expansion of choice that this scheme provides. Nobody's pretending these filters are perfect, or that a determined child won't find ways round them, but at least if they do this they know they've crossed the boundary that has been set for them.

    21. Re:Just porn? by Patch86 · · Score: 1

      I remember when I first moved in to this house and got Virgin Media broadband set up, it had ISP-end content filtering in place for "adult content", and was quite a chore to turn off.

      I noticed it was on when, in the first day of having it set up, I went to watch a clip of some BBC adaptation of Canterbury Tales on YouTube. The particular episode had a sex scene in it, and was blocked. Any "adult content" filter which prevents people from watching BBC adaptations of Chaucer because there's a glimpse of nipple for half a second is clearly broken beyond usefulness. And if Baby Timmy is really going to be scarred for life at a half-second glimpse of a soap actress's nipple and 10 seconds of giggling and groaning, Baby Timmy is probably too fragile to survive until adulthood.

    22. Re:Just porn? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, you can come across CP accidentally: those fly-by-night free porn sites operating out of eastern europe and SE asia (you know, the ones with big circles of affiliate links and virus-laden ads) often include jailbait and sites with people of questionable but unspecified age. Funnily enough, those sites are probably easier to get to when you're trying to get around a filter, because they don't want to get money out of you directly, they aren't cooperating with filter vendors, and so on.

      There was a programme on SBS in Australia a while back about children and porn, and they found that the most common reason for kids using porn as a source of information was that it was easier and required less adult involvement than getting information from more reliable sources. After all, if you're a girl hoping to get laid and wanting to know what guys like, and you don't want to talk to your parents or librarian about it, you are left with supermarket magazines or the internet. Since even non-geeky kids (at least the ones at my cousin's school) know how to get around web filters, or at least know who to ask to do it, and magazines cost money, the internet is the obvious solution.

      Also, remember that under UK law the picture only has to look like a person under 18 (and doesn't have to be realistic- simpsons porn counts). Amusingly, someone with a complete set of back issues of The Sun would be a criminal under modern CP law, since they have published topless 16yos.

    23. Re:Just porn? by scared+masked+man · · Score: 1

      It is probably easier to return nothing at all than to try to figure out which sites are discussions of porn and which sites are porn: a site describing the effects of excessive porn viewing in terms of the harm to sexual function could look rather similar to erotic literature to a robot.

    24. Re:Just porn? by scared+masked+man · · Score: 1

      One of my kids, visiting their grandparents, managed to conjure up some pretty sordid images of bestiality in no time by just googling one of her hobbies, horse riding.

      That raises interesting questions about what her grandparents are into, or at least what there neighbours are into (since it does localise search results). I got to page 45 of the image search without seeing anything pornographic - that's where the never-ending results end.

      That's almost as unfortunate than Claire Perry's kids, who found porn searching for "American Girl", which for me didn't appear until page 35 (there were some women in nice underwear about 10 pages earlier, but nothing you can't see in posters on any high street).

  13. Re:Loveley, to live in a Republic! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Eh, Cameron is in Great Britain?! Sorry but your post doesn't make any sense (at least from my point of view)...

  14. As a father by Max+Romantschuk · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I really really hope my kids rather watch porn than all the violent entertainment which for whatever twisted reason seems to be OK accoriding to society.

    I simply don't undertand how consentual sex could possibly do more harm than violence.

    The best advice about porn that I got as an adolescent was really simple: Watch all the porn you want, don't just confuse it with real life. (99% of all porn is rather unrealistic fantasy, after all.)

    --
    .: Max Romantschuk :: http://max.romantschuk.fi/
    1. Re:As a father by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I really really hope my kids rather watch porn than all the violent entertainment which for whatever twisted reason seems to be OK accoriding to society.

      I simply don't undertand how consentual sex could possibly do more harm than violence.

      The best advice about porn that I got as an adolescent was really simple: Watch all the porn you want, don't just confuse it with real life. (99% of all porn is rather unrealistic fantasy, after all.)

      How can you use that advice to support sexual entertainment, but not all other forms?

    2. Re:As a father by lhunath · · Score: 2

      Grammar is important. "Don't just confuse it" means something rather different from "Just don't confuse it".

      --
      ``OK, so ten out of ten for style, but minus several million for good thinking, yeah?''
    3. Re:As a father by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But if the pizza man really loves that woman, why is he spanking her?

    4. Re:As a father by Max+Romantschuk · · Score: 1

      Amusingly I would seldom make a mistake like that, but the kids succesfully distracted me, it seems. Must have been thinking in Finnish for an instant there.

      --
      .: Max Romantschuk :: http://max.romantschuk.fi/
    5. Re:As a father by Max+Romantschuk · · Score: 2

      But if the pizza man really loves that woman, why is he spanking her?

      D/s / BDSM is a complex subject, and porn is a really poor model for that. I suggest Different Loving: The World of Sexual Dominance and Submission for a fairly well rounded look into that particular subculture.

      --
      .: Max Romantschuk :: http://max.romantschuk.fi/
    6. Re:As a father by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How can you use that advice to support sexual entertainment, but not all other forms?

      Not speaking for grandparent, but I at least would expect them to have sexual relationships (though not the way portrayed in porn); but I wouldn't want them to participate in any violence (whatever violence).

    7. Re:As a father by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How can you use that advice to support sexual entertainment, but not all other forms?

      Not speaking for grandparent, but I at least would expect them to have sexual relationships (though not the way portrayed in porn); but I wouldn't want them to participate in any violence (whatever violence).

      The important part is learning to sort fantasy from reality.

      Violence is still a reality unfortunately, but you can choose not to participate in it.

      If we take the same approach to sexual entertainment, you'd have limit exposure to just the sexual fantasies you are OK with children later participating in?

    8. Re:As a father by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      To that end, I think having seen my fair share of the wide variety of porn on the internet I have the basis for an opinion on this.

      I've seen everything I care to imagine, and could be in the mood for almost anything. But the BD/SM stuff has to look fake to me(Not poor quality fake, but fake enough to keep the fourth wall in frame). I love it in the right setting, but if the acting is too realistic, it kills the mood for me. I think a lot of the antiporn people fail to grasp that aspect for many forms of entertainment.

      The style/concept is a big part of the fun. The reality of being mean or actual hurt is not. The same way someone can enjoy violent FPS games but abhor actual violence.

  15. David Cameron Will Raise The Bar! by Cito · · Score: 1
  16. Maybe not the worst idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    As long as there are no costs, and it's trivial to opt out and get an unfiltered connection, and this doesn't turn out to be the thin end of some wedge... I guess it's not an awful idea

    1. Re:Maybe not the worst idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The trouble is, if you opt out for an unfiltered connection, you will be labeled as a pedophile, and if you do have children in the house, the government (whatever their version of the department of child welfare is called) will remove them. </sarcasm>

    2. Re:Maybe not the worst idea by SuricouRaven · · Score: 2

      Sarcasm not needed. It's not going to happen right away, but you can be confident that sooner or later it's going to come up in a particually messy divorce battle: "My former spouse permitted our daughter on a computer even though I was able to determine he had disabled the child safety measures offered by the service provider. This is further evidence of their negligence as a parent."

  17. WARNING! DAILY MAIL! by Gordonjcp · · Score: 1

    So here we have a right-wing broadsheet reporting on a story that only appears to be covered in a right-wing tabloid. Are we going to start seeing stories on slashdot about other things the Daily Fail covers, like women apparently being impregnated by aliens (space aliens, not Polish lorry drivers, of course) and the police having the audacity to arrest people for making indecent phone calls?

    1. Re:WARNING! DAILY MAIL! by PlusFiveTroll · · Score: 3, Informative

      http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/05/04/cameron_default_isp_filtering/

      Wake up man, or at least do a little google-fu, Cameron is all about isp filtering of all sorts.

    2. Re:WARNING! DAILY MAIL! by Astatine · · Score: 1

      Yes, because the Daily Mail runs the UK, these days.

  18. Yeah luke that is going to stop anything by pointyhat · · Score: 1

    If its like my kids, they just crack someone elaes WiFi which does have pr0n. This is usually due to the default passwords of all very popular alcatel/thompson routers being easy to calculate.

    1. Re:Yeah luke that is going to stop anything by im_thatoneguy · · Score: 1

      What if Luke uses the force?

    2. Re:Yeah luke that is going to stop anything by pointyhat · · Score: 1

      Luke is my Nexus' autocomplete. Damn you Android!

  19. Just kids? by Roger+W+Moore · · Score: 5, Funny

    I'm actually surprised that it just asks for kids. Given their established record I would have thought the question should really be "Do you have any kids or MPs in the house?".

    1. Re:Just kids? by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 1

      if there are merry pranksters in the house, I'm pretty sure they would not object to porn.

      --

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
    2. Re:Just kids? by ifiwereasculptor · · Score: 4, Funny

      I'm surprised it's just a question. You can just lie and be done with it. A simple "no" should be enough, but if you want to completely avoid suspicion, try "well, if I had children of my own available, I wouldn't need internet access, would I?".

    3. Re:Just kids? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I thought it was suppose to be woman or children.

      They aught to lock up the nut jobs if you ask me. Anybody who votes for this cap. Sadly in America they closed the insane asylums. There probably should be two states in the US. One is where the nut jobs are sent. You can be sure I'll be sending a few people in my own family down south.

    4. Re:Just kids? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      aught = anything

      ought = should

  20. Stupid by zrbyte · · Score: 3, Insightful

    You can't regulate people into having common sense.

    1. Re:Stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      regulate ... funny.

      In my native language, getting regulated is also slang for getting screwed by someone :))

  21. This doesn't bode well for my by future+assassin · · Score: 1

    .xxx domain indeas overseas. Damn foiled again. So now on top of religion being a thorn in the side to the world, we not have to include children as freedom killers?

    --
    by TheSpoom (715771) Uncaring Linux user here. I have nothing to add to this but please continue. *munches popcorn*
  22. Re:Loveley, to live in a Republic! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Honestly, what the fuck are you blathering about? In the sentence : "This is different to..." - what is "this". Who are "Those people". Who are the "they" and "us" in the last sentence. Did you construct this post by running it through some kind of Markov-chain idiocy algorithm?

  23. It's secretly just a plan to improve education by Art+Challenor · · Score: 5, Funny

    A brilliant move to improve public computer education in the UK. Now kids will have incentive to learn networking, system administration, and generally how the internet works in order to defeat the feature. A much better, practical lesson, than they'd ever get in formal classroom training - and it's free to the governemnt.

    And normally, you'd be able to ask the nerdy Linux kid to fix your computer for you, but what interest would they have in porn?

    1. Re:It's secretly just a plan to improve education by kheldan · · Score: 1

      100% true. You can't really prevent people from seeing what they want to see on the internet, you can only slow them down.

      --
      Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
    2. Re:It's secretly just a plan to improve education by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      Oh, they have plenty of interest. It just might not be the type of porn the normal kids want to see.

    3. Re:It's secretly just a plan to improve education by scared+masked+man · · Score: 1

      You mean not everyone wants to see Natalie Portman covered in hot grits?

  24. You've all got this quite wrong by folderol · · Score: 5, Interesting

    What will actually happen is that the adults will be told to fetch the kids and then be told to go away. The kids will then be asked if they want parential controls, i.e. stuff to stop the parents logging on to dodgy malware-infected sites etc.

    1. Re:You've all got this quite wrong by Kjella · · Score: 1

      That may have been true a decade ago but if you were 15-18 in the dotcom era (1997-2000) you're 27-33 now, I don't think kids can assume their parents are clueless about the Internet anymore. At least not much longer.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
  25. You've got that backwards by newcastlejon · · Score: 1

    Everyone here knows that monkeys come from France!

    --
    If God forks the Universe every time you roll a die, he'd better have a damned good memory.
  26. My children are grown.... does that count? by mark-t · · Score: 3, Insightful

    What about grandchildren?

  27. teenage parents by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ministers will also tell ISPs to impose "appropriate measures" to make sure that those setting the controls are over 18, according to the Daily Mail.

    And what about teenage parents? Do they have to ask their parents to configure the filters?

    It's good that there are tools for parents to shield their children from unwanted parts of the internet and people probably do need to be made aware of them. I nevertheless suspect that those who would need these tools the most, namely the inattentive parents of young children who let their kids do whatever they want, will also be the ones who don't bother turning it on due to apathy or technical inability to manage it properly.

  28. lol by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    inb4 a mysterious leak where camerons pc gets "hacked" and lots of porn was coppied to it "without him knowing"

  29. So let me get this straight by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    They aren't worried about kids playing games where all you do is shoot or blow up people, but if they might see 1 nipple or breast we're better off just locking the whole thing down? Does nobody else see how retarded this is? Humanity as a culture is backstepping a lot faster than it's moving forward.

  30. GOD FORBID THEY CAN SEX by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Yeah, because murdering people with a screwdriver or finding out ways to meet kids on Facebook is SO MUCH BETTER.

    Ban actual dangerous sites, porn is harmless.
    Hell, Facebook alone is far more dangerous than a stupid porn site is.
    I'm pretty sure nobody has been murdered / suicided / raped / etc from whacking it to some girl on my free cams.
    Meanwhile on Facebook... racist killing bullying suiciding teens all over the place.
    So, yes, ban Facebook under this law. Fucking hypocrites.

  31. It's not even harmful by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There's no evidence (and some contrary to the idea) that exposure to porn at a young age doesn't damage children (the only thing we know for sure is that pornography use by couples is correlated with slightly lower relationship satisfaction). It's just a case of some adults being very outspoken against the association of children with anything sexual at all. Haggard's law, anyone?

  32. Firm hand with England by globaljustin · · Score: 2

    David Cameron is a total dishrag...the epitome of the 'empty suit'...maybe a Romney comparison isn't out of line

    Cameron can and will **roll over** for any interest...he let Rupert Murdoch have his way with the entire country's phone system, now he's helping cover for him...

    We have to take a firm hand with England politically....fuck them 2x I say...they should **know better**...hell 1984 was set in England for fuck's sake.

    US policy should be almost antagonistic with England...we should work to have them join the EU in the future

    --
    Thank you Dave Raggett
    1. Re:Firm hand with England by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      stop your incoherent dribbling you yank cunt

    2. Re:Firm hand with England by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We are in the fucking EU, moron.

  33. In other news, PM Cameron... by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ...went to the seashore at Southampton and commanded the tide to stop coming in.

    1. Re:In other news, PM Cameron... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Cnut was trying to show he wasn't all powerful, Cameron believes he is. Better analogy would be Caligula declaring war on the sea.

  34. I'm ok with this. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That's actually not a terrible idea.

  35. Obligatory by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    TOR

    1. Re:Obligatory by maxwell+demon · · Score: 1

      Isn't it easier to just answer the question with "no" and be done with it?

      --
      The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
  36. My filter by ironman_one · · Score: 2

    Why cant we have a mandatory filter on political stupidity instead? To filter out David Camerons and the lot.

  37. So will they need to be a UK ver of windows that by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    So will they need to be a UK ver of windows that adds to this to the install??

    As the full windows disk do not have this as part of there installs maybe on the OEM install loaded with bloated software they will ad that but people who build there own PC, who want to do clean install, enterprise installs may not have this.

  38. Does this make the parents legally responsible? by Bookwyrm · · Score: 2

    While this seems a bit poorly thought out, if (and only if) it makes the parents *legally* responsible for anything objectionable their children might find, not the ISPs, not other websites, etc., but leaves all the responsibility squarely on parental supervision, then I could get behind this. Shielding ISPs and web hosting companies from frivolous lawsuits from stupid, irresponsible parents is actually positive.

    If, if (and only if) it puts the 'think of the children' squarely on the responsibility of the parents while offering them the tools/filters/guidance to supervise computer use, that could be good. Less "How could you put that up where children might find it?" and more "Why are you not being responsible for your children's activities? You were warned, given the tools, shown how to watch them. Why are you not responsible?"

    If this does not provide any additional legal protections for ISPs or such from stupid parents, then, no. This is worthless.

    1. Re:Does this make the parents legally responsible? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If this does not provide any additional legal protections for ISPs or such from stupid parents, then, no. This is worthless.

      It's worthless anyway. We can shield ISPs and hosting companies without this anti-freedom POS.

    2. Re:Does this make the parents legally responsible? by heefeneet · · Score: 1

      While this seems a bit poorly thought out, if (and only if) it makes the parents *legally* responsible for anything objectionable their children might find, not the ISPs, not other websites, etc., but leaves all the responsibility squarely on parental supervision, then I could get behind this. Shielding ISPs and web hosting companies from frivolous lawsuits from stupid, irresponsible parents is actually positive.

      If, if (and only if) it puts the 'think of the children' squarely on the responsibility of the parents while offering them the tools/filters/guidance to supervise computer use, that could be good. Less "How could you put that up where children might find it?" and more "Why are you not being responsible for your children's activities? You were warned, given the tools, shown how to watch them. Why are you not responsible?"

      If this does not provide any additional legal protections for ISPs or such from stupid parents, then, no. This is worthless.

      Dont be daft. This law is to prevent parents from having to be parents, so there is no way they will be held responsible. There are plenty filters available, but as parents are too lazy or stupid to bother investigating, the government has decided to blanket-ban the entire country.

  39. You gotta stem the evil by WindWhale · · Score: 1

    And keep it on the inside. David, you're nearly a treat but you're really a cry.

  40. No comment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'd give an honest evaluation of this idea, but: http://yro.slashdot.org/story/12/11/15/1644241/in-uk-twitter-facebook-rants-land-some-in-jail

  41. Austerity measures... by Hagaric · · Score: 1

    He's just trying to boost the income of the domestic sex-shop sector.

  42. really... by Nocturnal+Deviant · · Score: 1

    doesnt he know the internet is for porn? /ducks

    --
    -Noc
  43. Rude. by uCallHimDrJ0NES · · Score: 1

    Ihunath, your comment is rude. English is clearly not Max's first language. If your textual criticism skills are so poor you can't spot this obvious fact, you have no business posting about grammar.

    --
    Cloudiot: A person who does not see offsite storage as a way to lose control over access to his or her own data.
    1. Re:Rude. by lhunath · · Score: 1

      My comment is not rude, it is factual and constructive. For all you know, Max is a perfectly reasonable person who's interested in learning where he makes mistakes in his usage of English so that the next time he'll say it right. Not everybody takes criticism as an insult, and the world would be a much happier place if we could all be like them.

      --
      ``OK, so ten out of ten for style, but minus several million for good thinking, yeah?''
  44. But this will kick the Daily Mail off the net by billstewart · · Score: 1

    Assuming they use the same overkill rules that most online censors do, the Page 3 Girls will get the Daily Mail blocked for anyone who has children. And won't that be a good thing! You'll still be able to get the actual paper copies if you need to wrap fish in it, of course.

    --

    Bill Stewart
    New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
  45. Even dailymail.co.uk by billstewart · · Score: 1

    Even with Safesearch turned on, they could just turn to page 3 on their own site. Sure, it's just topless women, bu they're there for men to ogle, so that makes it porn, so they're being hypocrites about the whole thing.

    --

    Bill Stewart
    New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
    1. Re:Even dailymail.co.uk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No I couldn't find page 3 of the Daily Mail Website, and certainly no topless women.
      I did find some ballerina poodles.

  46. Funny and true. by uCallHimDrJ0NES · · Score: 1

    But still, without your second comment to add humor and insight, it was previously rude. I totally agree with you about response to criticism. I've been called "grammar Nazi" many times. As my professional life has involved more and more ESL speakers over time, I've had to learn to push the desire to correct grammar aside, or risk derailing productive dialogue.

    --
    Cloudiot: A person who does not see offsite storage as a way to lose control over access to his or her own data.
    1. Re:Funny and true. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But still, without your second comment to add humor and insight, it was previously rude.

      No, it wasn't rude at all.

      Seriously. Stop complaining about use of language when you yourself obviously have no idea what you've just read. If you think my comment is rude, then you're right, but you deserve it.

  47. TV has a rating by Stan92057 · · Score: 1

    TV has a rating system/age restrictions,Written media has a rating system/Age restrictions,games have a rating system/age restrictions,music has a rating system/age restrictions.Pornographic magazines are age rated under 18 or 21 not allowed to buy,or view. You cant buy a playboy magazine unless your 18 and over ya cant even flip through the pages. So why should Internet pornography or anything else be excluded? The best thing is allowing choice this gives parents a choice how can that be a bad thing? I don't want anyone here to make decisions for me. They made a XXX domain make them use it and if its a lot of money for a domain. Oh well that's a business expense and i would guess paying the domain fee is alot better then getting fined or worse jail time.

    --
    Jack of all trades,master of none
    1. Re:TV has a rating by SuricouRaven · · Score: 2

      Because of all those rating systems in all those media, none has provided more than a token barrier in the way of under-aged viewers.

    2. Re:TV has a rating by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      TV has a rating system/age restrictions

      Which was never relevant.

      Written media has a rating system/Age restrictions

      I don't ever recall one in the UK. Nobody ever stopped me reading a book in a library.

      games have a rating system/age restrictions

      Which are irrelevant. Parents buy video games and let their children play them.

      music has a rating system/age restrictions

      No it doesn't, it has a parental advisory sticker.

      Pornographic magazines are age rated under 18 or 21 not allowed to buy,or view

      Yet 14 year old males never had any problem getting them.

      You cant buy a playboy magazine unless your 18 and over ya cant even flip through the pages.

      Young adults don't need to buy what they can acquire in other ways. As for the pages being stuck together, that was a real problem!

      So why should Internet pornography or anything else be excluded?

      It isn't, children cannot sign a legally binding contract with an ISP and parents / guardians can choose to install content filters.

      The best thing is allowing choice this gives parents a choice how can that be a bad thing?

      That isn't a "bad thing" (tm)

      I don't want anyone here to make decisions for me.

      So you don't want a censorship system in place that, once established, there will be regular attempts to extend?

      They made a XXX domain make them use it and if its a lot of money for a domain. Oh well that's a business expense and i would guess paying the domain fee is alot better then getting fined or worse jail time.

      Domain names don't have anything to do with the content of a web site. They are not a system for content classification, assuming it were even possible to identify "pornography" with anything other than one US judges "I know it when I see it".

  48. Technical Expertise of Tabloid Newspapers by billstewart · · Score: 4, Informative

    As other comments point out, the story really comes from the Daily Mail, a right-wing total rag of a tabloid. It's typically more accurate than the Weekly World News, but it's not the Times or The Register.

    So yes, if they were to literally implement the Daily Fail's description of how service will work, that means that any computer system, operating system or browser you get in the UK would have to have modifications to ask The Kids Question when you install it, and every Internet provider would have to redirect connections for Port 80 to the filter sign-up sheet (because Teh Internet is the same thing as Teh Webz, innit?) Wot's that about links in some arch?

    Assuming David Cameron isn't quite is ignorant as the Daily Fail wants him to be, that's probably not something he'll actually propose. (If this were Australia, the answer would be different, because the pro-censorship politicians there really do appear to be that dumb.) Much more likely, if they do anything like it at all, they'll make ISPs offer censorware and/or have filtering set on by default, but filtering at the ISP level is really expensive and the ISPs will push back.

    --

    Bill Stewart
    New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
    1. Re:Technical Expertise of Tabloid Newspapers by Teun · · Score: 2
      David Cameron went, as many of his peers, from the age of seven to private schools, the epitome for an introduction to sexual and mental abuse.

      No wonder the man is still troubled by the thought of free sex.

      --
      "The likes of Facebook and WhatsApp are free to those whose privacy is of zero value."
    2. Re:Technical Expertise of Tabloid Newspapers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Assuming David Cameron isn't quite is ignorant as the Daily Fail wants him to be

      That's quite the assumption you're making there.

    3. Re:Technical Expertise of Tabloid Newspapers by Inda · · Score: 1

      Already happens.

      The last two mobile phone contracts I've signed up for both tried to ask about filtering.

      "Don't block anything, mate" is becoming a default answer when signing up to an internet service.

      My home ISP, Virgin Media, aside from blocking sites deemed "bad" by teh courts, also offers "Virgin Media Security Parental Control" and I suspect this is pushed heavily to new customers.

      --
      This post contains benzene, nitrosamines, formaldehyde and hydrogen cyanide.
    4. Re:Technical Expertise of Tabloid Newspapers by jools33 · · Score: 1

      In my opinion Daily Mail is nothing more than a troll of a newspaper that force feeds its readers exactly what they want to hear, or what they know will rile their readership in order to sell more rags to their core readership.
      Radiohead felt strongly enough about this rag to write a song about it that nicely sums this up in haunting poetic terms .

    5. Re:Technical Expertise of Tabloid Newspapers by Cederic · · Score: 2

      Yeah, I'm on the "Don't block anything" list. I also run an open hotspot which has the side effect that the kids next door can ignore their parents' controls if they want to.

      I haven't told them this; it's their own fault if they don't learn how to subvert authority.

      Interestingly when I switched phone to Virgin Media a couple of weeks back they didn't ask me. Hmm. Yep, filter in place... and gone. One quick phone call.

      I'd prefer not to, but at least it's possible. Unlike Sky and their fuckwit demand for a PIN code to watch a film in a household containing no children and no vulnerable adults (unless I qualify; possible).

    6. Re:Technical Expertise of Tabloid Newspapers by Patch86 · · Score: 1

      I believe their real plan is to have ISPs implement an on-by-default "adult content" blocker. This smacks of that technique used by teenagers to get things out of their parents: ask for something outrageous, have it refused, then suggest a "compromise"- which is the thing you were after all along. By proposing something insanely draconian, they're hoping that when they "compromise" with their simple ISP filter the liberal lobbyists will think "phew, that's a relief!" and accept it.

  49. Re:Loveley, to live in a Republic! by SuricouRaven · · Score: 2

    Either a well-crafted troll, or genuine stupid. It's hard to tell sometimes.

  50. Pigs by Holistic+Missile · · Score: 1

    (Three different ones)

    And do you feel abused?

    --
    When you're dead, you don't know you're dead. It only affects the people around you. Same thing when you're stupid.
  51. Discovery of URLs is through HTTP by tepples · · Score: 1

    because Teh Internet is the same thing as Teh Webz, innit?

    It pretty much is: you have to approach the Internet through the Web. As I understand it, URLs to resources other than those available through HTTP and HTTPS are typically discovered through HTTP or HTTPS.

    1. Re:Discovery of URLs is through HTTP by aevan · · Score: 1

      My ISP (Bell Sympatico) provided NNTP information in the jacket of the CD, besides DNS info and such.
      As such, the wonders of alt.binaries are all yours to discover. HTTP filtering/redirecting affects this not.
      From there grab mIRC and you're set...all the porn, apps, music, movies you want and never touch your browser, by either usenet or xdcc/fserv.

    2. Re:Discovery of URLs is through HTTP by tepples · · Score: 1

      My ISP (Bell Sympatico) provided NNTP information in the jacket of the CD

      Do most ISPs still do this?

      From there grab mIRC

      How, other than through HTTP?

    3. Re:Discovery of URLs is through HTTP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "The Network News Transfer Protocol (NNTP) is an application protocol used for transporting Usenet news articles (netnews) between news servers and for reading and posting articles by end user client applications."

      "Usenet was originally created to distribute text content encoded in the 7-bit ASCII character set. With the help of programs that encode 8-bit values into ASCII, it became practical to distribute binary files as content."

      . /sheesh
      . //get of my lawn

  52. Ban on gay man sex distinct from bestiality by tepples · · Score: 2

    References to sodomy in the Bible are not talking about gay sex, at least not the main ones that are always quoted.

    Even this? "And you must not lie down with a male the same as you lie down with a woman. It is a detestable thing. [...] And when a man lies down with a male the same as one lies down with a woman, both of them have done a detestable thing. They should be put to death without fail. Their own blood is upon them." (Leviticus 18:22, 20:13, NWT) Notice that the prohibition on sexual contact between men is stated separately from the prohibition on sexual contact with animals.--Leviticus 20:15.

    1. Re:Ban on gay man sex distinct from bestiality by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1, Informative

      Judges 19:22:

      "Bring forth the man that came into thine house, that we may know him.

      And the man, the master of the house, went out unto them, and said unto them, Nay, my brethren, [nay], I pray you, do not [so] wickedly; seeing that this man is come into mine house, do not this folly.

      Behold, [here is] my daughter a maiden, and his concubine; them I will bring out now, and humble ye them, and do with them what seemeth good unto you: but unto this man do not so vile a thing.

      But the men would not hearken to him: so the man took his concubine, and brought her forth unto them; and they knew her, and abused her all the night until the morning"

      So yeah, don't rape a man, rape my daughter instead. Wrong on so many levels.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    2. Re:Ban on gay man sex distinct from bestiality by Fjandr · · Score: 1

      I always find it amusing when Christians quote Leviticus, as they do not keep the Laws of Moses. Anyone quoting them authoritatively should be bound by them, each and every one.

      Note, this is not to imply you are doing that, as your comment is perfectly apt as a rebuttal of the one to which it is a reply. It simply brought to mind the above.

    3. Re:Ban on gay man sex distinct from bestiality by tepples · · Score: 0

      I always find it amusing when Christians quote Leviticus, as they do not keep the Laws of Moses.

      God has principles and purposes that do not change (Malachi 3:6), as well as plans and covenants that change from millennium to millennium. Even God's personal name Jehovah, meaning "he who proves to be" (Exodus 3:14-15), alludes to this capacity to become what is necessary. In this post, I explained several different plans that God has used.

      The Mosaic Law was God's covenant with humanity during what I called the "plan C" era, and it contains rules intended to apply to all of humanity as well as rules intended specifically for the Jews. Though much of it has since been superseded by the current covenant in the body and blood of Jesus, the Mosaic Law is still useful for gaining insight on God's principles. Moreover, anything reiterated in the Greek Scriptures, such as the ban on MSM (Romans 1:27) or the ban on consuming blood (Acts 15:29), was probably intended to survive replacment of the old covenant with the new.

      And you're right that a lot of people misinterpret the Mosaic Law, picking and choosing which rules they want to survive into the Christian era based on their own prejudices. For example, see what I wrote about Deuteronomy 22:5.

    4. Re:Ban on gay man sex distinct from bestiality by Nyder · · Score: 1

      References to sodomy in the Bible are not talking about gay sex, at least not the main ones that are always quoted.

      Even this? "And you must not lie down with a male the same as you lie down with a woman. It is a detestable thing. [...] And when a man lies down with a male the same as one lies down with a woman, both of them have done a detestable thing. They should be put to death without fail. Their own blood is upon them." (Leviticus 18:22, 20:13, NWT) Notice that the prohibition on sexual contact between men is stated separately from the prohibition on sexual contact with animals.--Leviticus 20:15.

      Wait, so if I don't let chicks give me head, it's okay if i let dudes do it? From the words there, it's just saying I can't do the same things with men that I do with women. So if I don't do anal, go down, or let the woman give me head, I can do all that with dudes and it's okay according to the bible.

      woot!

      --
      Be seeing you...
    5. Re:Ban on gay man sex distinct from bestiality by kenorland · · Score: 1

      God has principles and purposes that do not change (Malachi 3:6), ... The Mosaic Law was God's covenant with humanity during what I called the "plan C" era,

      So, this almighty, omniscient being revealed this "plan" to an insignificant desert tribe, who he then proceeded to decimate and torture for a few more millennia. And then he maybe sends Jesus or Mohammed or whoever else, or maybe not; his original chosen people don't seem to think so. And this god's biggest concerns are chopping of parts of someone's wiener and who you go to bed with, while occasionally ordering his people to commit genocides. Sure, that makes sense.

      Maybe there is an intelligent creator, maybe not. But if there is, Christianity, Judaism, or Islam have nothing to do with such a being; they are simply a collection of common philosophical ideas plagiarized from other religions, superstitions, and a lot of fraud and cultism.

    6. Re:Ban on gay man sex distinct from bestiality by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      Maybe there is an intelligent creator, maybe not. But if there is, Christianity, Judaism, or Islam have nothing to do with such a being; they are simply a collection of common philosophical ideas plagiarized from other religions, superstitions, and a lot of fraud and cultism.

      Thank you for voicing so well and so precisely my own objections to the Abrahamic religions.

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    7. Re:Ban on gay man sex distinct from bestiality by tepples · · Score: 1

      an insignificant desert tribe, who he then proceeded to decimate and torture for a few more millennia

      God doesn't torture his people, even if he does permit wicked people to torture people for a short while to prove a point to Satan. The clearest explanation I've read of how the Bible treats the problem of evil is in chapter 11 of What Does the Bible Really Teach? , published by Jehovah's Witnesses.

      And this god's biggest concerns are chopping of parts of someone's wiener

      That was chosen as the symbol of the covenant with Abraham leading up to the Mosaic era, just as the rainbow is the symbol of the covenant with Noah, the Passover was the symbol of the covenant with Moses, and the annual reenactment of the Last Supper ("do this in remembrance of me") is the symbol of the new covenant in Christ.

      and who you go to bed with

      Two things: First, the concept of God creating man "male and female" is a recurring theme throughout the first dozen chapters of Genesis. Second, monogamy helps slow the spread of STDs.

      while occasionally ordering his people to commit genocides

      If there are even a dozen righteous people in a city, God doesn't destroy it.--Genesis 18:16-33.

    8. Re:Ban on gay man sex distinct from bestiality by kenorland · · Score: 1

      God doesn't torture his people, even if he does permit wicked people to torture people for a short while to prove a point to Satan

      The deity described in the Bible doesn't just permit evil to occur, he blackmails people into committing murder and genocide, and even does the killing himself.

      That was chosen as the symbol of the covenant with Abraham leading up to the Mosaic era,

      So? What kind of twisted deity has an obsession with boy penises?

      Two things: First, the concept of God creating man "male and female" is a recurring theme throughout the first dozen chapters of Genesis.

      All species of mammals are sexually dimorphic; for almost none of them is heterosexual monogamy normal behavior.

      Second, monogamy helps slow the spread of STDs.

      "Don't sleep around" is good advice; "punish the homosexuals and adulterers by death" is evil.

      If there are even a dozen righteous people in a city, God doesn't destroy it.--Genesis 18:16-33.

      Mass murderers usually attempt to justify their actions, that doesn't make their actions right. A moral and just deity who wants to set an example for humans doesn't just swoop in, say "these people aren't righteous" and kills them. But these biblical stories did set examples that generations of Jewish, Christian, and Muslim mass murderers have used as justification and followed.

      The clearest explanation I've read of how the Bible treats the problem

      The Bible is a haphazard and logically inconsistent collection of writings to begin with; it doesn't matter how it "treats" anything, because if you start with something inconsistent, you can infer anything you like. The most glaring inconsistency is the numerous evil acts the god of the Bible commits, while other parts of the Bible refer to him as moral, just, and merciful. And to resolve this inconsistency, people like you come up with all sorts of hare brained explanations, instead of facing the fact that the Bible is inconsistent nonsense.

      There may or may not be a single creator-deity, but if there is, the Abrahamic religions and the Bible have nothing to do with him, except for bits and pieces of philosophy they mostly plagiarized from other sources.

    9. Re:Ban on gay man sex distinct from bestiality by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you only have vaginal sex with women and anal sex with men, it would be ok, for that is not "the same as you....". those using this text as reason for being against gay's(and bi's, and ..., and ...) are reading more into this than it actually says. and what about having sex while standing with men? And it is really about "lie down" with someone else(of female or male gender, there are others), not sex explicity.

    10. Re:Ban on gay man sex distinct from bestiality by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's found in the greek scriptures too...

      1 Cor 1:9-11:What! Do you not know that unrighteous persons will not inherit God’s kingdom? Do not be misled. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men kept for unnatural purposes, nor men who lie with men, nor thieves, nor greedy persons, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit God’s kingdom. And yet that is what some of you were. But you have been washed clean, but you have been sanctified, but you have been declared righteous in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ and with the spirit of our God.

  53. Not everyone saying to me, 'Lord, Lord' by tepples · · Score: 2, Insightful

    We call this "No True Scotsman." You should read into it.

    Jesus anticipated this. "Not everyone saying to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will." (Matthew 7:21, NWT) In other words, Jesus knew that people would call themselves Christians despite not making their best effort to uphold God's principles.

  54. We're on plan D by tepples · · Score: 0

    The most painfully obvious problem with Christianity in particular is that their god supposedly has a plan for every last one of us

    God's purpose doesn't change, and his plans change to whatever best meets his purpose in any given day or millennium. Plan A at creation was that we'd fill the earth and do God's will. After Satan exercised his free will to rebel and lead Adam and Eve to sin, God put into place plan B. After the Nephilim (products of Satan's angels raping human women) grew in number, God sent the flood and put into place plan C, leading over the next millennium to the kingdom of Israel to represent the kingdom of the heavens. And after the leadership of Israel turned away from God's will, God decided it was time to transform his only child into a zygote without imperfection and implant it in Mary, wife of Joseph. When the Pharisees rejected Jesus's teachings, the death of a perfect man (Jesus) paid for the sin of a perfect man (Adam), beginning plan D. And over the past century, this plan has come to its conclusion. Sometime in the first half of the twentieth century CE (possibly 1934, though Jehovah's Witnesses seem to think 1914), Satan got kicked out of heaven, and he went and started a World War or two. The plan for each of us is to have a chance to hear the news of God's kingdom and either accept or reject citizenship in the kingdom of the heavens.

    yet when we do things that upset religious bodies our actions are shunned as corrupt.

    Jesus anticipated that religious bodies themselves would be corrupt.

    1. Re:We're on plan D by AliasMarlowe · · Score: 1

      Jesus anticipated that religious bodies themselves would be corrupt.

      And you claim he then started yet another one of them. What an asshole!
      Or was your point something less clear?

      --
      Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
    2. Re:We're on plan D by scared+masked+man · · Score: 1

      the death of a perfect man (Jesus) paid for the sin of a perfect man (Adam)

      This is the part which, to me, is the most nonsensical part of Christianity. Who, precisely, is being paid? If God is all-powerful and capable of defining the rules of the universe, then if he could define the rules so that Jesus's death was an adequate balance for everyone's sin, why couldn't he have defined the rules such that Jesus's death was also unnecessary (he could have just forgiven the debt unilaterally, or extended an offer to forgive the debt to anyone who claimed it, which would be functionally identical except no-one had to be tortured). If he couldn't see the flaw in his rules, he's obviously not omniscient, if he couldn't fix the rules (or ignore them), he's obviously not the ultimate authority of the universe, and if he didn't care about his son being needlessly tortured, that doesn't make him very loving.

  55. Curbs you say? by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

    Curbs stop RC cars, the human sex drive is a quarry dump truck.

    --
    "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    1. Re:Curbs you say? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They're actually known in Britain as 'kerbs', the kind that stops RC cars.

  56. Re:Loveley, to live in a Republic! by TheP4st · · Score: 5, Funny

    With a UID as low as 137 I would not rule out old age.

    --
    "I have downloaded hundreds and hundreds of records, why would I care if somebody downloads ours?" Robin Pecknold
  57. An exercise for the student by matunos · · Score: 1

    Then when they're done setting up the filters, the parents can have their kids show how to disable/circumvent them.

  58. I have no problem with this by ip_freely_2000 · · Score: 2

    Asking a one time question seems reasonable. Given the lack of expertise or even care about internet access, this seems like something that won't hurt. As long as the settings or filters can be dropped on demand, I have no problem with it.

  59. New Tourist Ad from the UK.... by Doctor_Jest · · Score: 1

    Welcome to the United Kingdom... making the United States seem sexually progressive since 1789...

    --
    It's the Stay-Puft Marshmallow Man.
  60. Re:Sorry kids...Hypocrisy Alert... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Your bigotry is showing!

    You have lumped all people in a certain class together and unjustly labeled them--in this case Christians. This is wrong (on several different levels).

    I am a conservative Christian (as opposed to a liberal Christian). Politically, I am a conservative with some libertarian leanings. I disagree with the good Prime Minister of England (sited in the article) as well as those in the USA who want to censor the Internet "for the children"'s sake (or, really, for anybody's sake). This censorship policy is both an ignorant and stupid--regardless of who proposes it. Not only is it doomed to fail but it will only give opportunity to control people. The restriction of information is, in and of itself, immoral IMHO. I also support the legalization of marijuana for recreational use--the police in the USA are thoroughly trained to detect people who are "under the influence" and can credible drunks and stoners off the road. Desiring to live in a truly free society, I accept the fact that some people will do things that I wouldn't and/or don't approve of doing--that is I think that a person should be responsible for one's own actions and attitudes.

    When you stereotype a group, you end up making enemies with the entire group. When you recognize that maybe, just maybe, not everyone in that group thinks and acts the way you want them to, you will gain a much more accurate picture of that group.

    So, stop your bigotry or bugger off!

  61. if you click no... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    maybe if you click no you'll have the chance to opt-in for such delectable categories as school girl, she-male, bdsm, ebony or scat...

  62. Might need to modify the question by Jeeeb · · Score: 1

    13y.o boy opens his brand new laptop that dad just got him:
    "Do you have any kids? Yes / No"
    "Um, no..."

  63. Strange by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is strange. What does "do you have children" have to do with it? It isn't like my kids know my password and can logon to my computer. And, yes, it has full disk encryption - so they can't just reset the password with some silly boot disk. Now, if it was my kids computers, why would it ask them if THEY had children? They are the children. This rule is so stuck in the 1990s when people were a lot more likely to have just one computer in the house and they were unlikely to have an operating system password. Now? There are computers all over the house. I sure don't let my kids use my computers. They get their own. My wife gets her own. The question is just stupid.

  64. Funny, but not true by uCallHimDrJ0NES · · Score: 1
    --
    Cloudiot: A person who does not see offsite storage as a way to lose control over access to his or her own data.
  65. Simple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    An old employer of mine that was quite conservative and grew up in the south used to always say "You can't legislate morality"

  66. Re:Loveley, to live in a Republic! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is different than how it's done in Britain, where they have a queen, and the Prime Minister must serve at her pleasure.

    What those two do in the privacy of their bedrooms is no concern of ours.

  67. What Usenet server? by tepples · · Score: 1

    Provided your ISP makes a Usenet server available to its subscribers. Fewer and fewer do nowadays, thanks to the stigma and bandwidth costs associated with alt.binaries.* and the popularity of web-based boards to replace all the other froups.

    1. Re:What Usenet server? by penix1 · · Score: 1

      Which is why you can get a stand-alone usenet provider relatively cheap. Luckily my provider does still provide NNTP.

      --
      This is a sig. This is only a sig. Had this been an actual sig you would have been informed where to tune for more sigs.
    2. Re:What Usenet server? by tepples · · Score: 1

      Which is why you can get a stand-alone usenet provider relatively cheap.

      How do you find a provider, other than through the web? And the other advantage of the web is that it's by and large supported by advertisers, as opposed to needing to pay a provider or to move to an area with an ISP that "does still provide NNTP".

    3. Re:What Usenet server? by aevan · · Score: 1

      'an area still providing nntp'. Well, I listed a National ISP for that even handles remote Canadian territories, so if Iqualuit, Nunavet can get NNTP, doesn't seem that hard. YCMMV. Now retention issues on binaries parts, that I can give you.

      As for *finding* things..well.. believe it or not in the dark ages before google things got found. Libraries and word-of-mouth, etc.
      Though if you're alone in the wilderness with a solar panel, laptop and sat modem, with Port 80 blocked, you might find it impossible. Than again, Gopher still works....

    4. Re:What Usenet server? by Cederic · · Score: 1

      How would blocking porn prevent you finding a NNTP provider?

    5. Re:What Usenet server? by tepples · · Score: 1

      How would blocking porn prevent you finding a NNTP provider?

      It doesn't. In this comment, billstewart sarcastically pointed out that the Web is not the Internet. I pointed out that in practice, it is: people use the Web to discover non-Web resources on the Internet. Usenet was given as an example of a non-Web resource, but as of 2012, even it fits the conception that "the Web is the Internet": customers of the growing number of home ISPs that don't provide news access must must use the Web to sign up for news access at extra cost.

      Or was that comment directed at people with mod points?

    6. Re:What Usenet server? by Cederic · · Score: 1

      Blocking porn on the web does not prevent use of the web to find NNTP servers.

      There are other non-web ways to find them as well. For instance, I can log into Steam and ask my friends, or ask people in other non-web based online communities. I can use email.

      The internet is indeed a multi-faceted resource, and although in practice people often use the web as a convenience factor, it's not essential. It's also not prevented from being used by a block on certain content.

    7. Re:What Usenet server? by tepples · · Score: 1

      Blocking porn on the web does not prevent use of the web to find NNTP servers.

      Blocking porn would require blocking port 443 entirely because the government can't see what porn is being encrypted. And without 443, you can't pay for an NNTP server.

      For instance, I can log into Steam

      How'd you find Steam?

      ask people in other non-web based online communities

      How'd you find those communities?

    8. Re:What Usenet server? by Cederic · · Score: 1

      Blocking porn would require blocking port 443 entirely

      Ah, you're talking about effective blocking. Blocking 443 wouldn't help either, you'd have to block ports 1..65535

      How'd you find Steam?

      It came with a game I bought. Installed the disc, and it demanded to install Steam.

      How'd you find those communities?

      How do I put this.. I was in four of them before Marc Andreeson decided to have a bash at this thing called Mosaic.

  68. The problem with the criminally self righteous... by Genda · · Score: 1

    Is that they think the world would be genuinely better paved over in their morality. Until these clowns get that this is pornography, and this is simply adult entertainment, I can't imagine we will have a sane conversation about the subject. Plain and simple, if you don't like it, don't watch it. If others don't want their children seeing it, then they are perfectly capable of making sure their children are insulated from it. How any of this issue is improved by the inclusion of David Cameron's big fat nose is a complete and total mystery.

  69. Re:Loveley, to live in a Republic! by History's+Coming+To · · Score: 1

    Erm...yeah...don't quite get your meaning there old chap.

    Bits of it are certainly right - we've got Liz as the ultimate head of state with plenty of "in theory" powers, and ultimate control over the armed forces. Then we elect a government, the majority party or group put forward their PM and he or she runs the place for four years under Her Majesty's consent.

    I'm a bit of a republican on principle, but I can't deny a monarchy has its good side, such as a voice independent of party bickering, if only the powers were used a little more to stop the childish bickering that is as much a part of UK politics as it is the US.

    --
    Please consider this account deleted, I just can't be bothered with the spam anymore.
  70. Why? by Dunge · · Score: 1

    Come on, stop trying to hide sexuality to children. The 1900's christian era is finished. They are as sexually capable, curious and can gain benefits from it as much as adults.

  71. Re:Sorry kids...Hypocrisy Alert... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I am a [...] Christian

    Taking a stance on a god that you don't even know exists, let alone know his personality, is foolish. Joining a specific religion is just idiotic and I cannot fathom why such people would be on Slashdot.

  72. So just click "no". by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Duh.

  73. UK by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The UK is an antiquated theocratic state slowly crumbling into oblivion. Sad really. But it's their own fault.

  74. personally... by andrew2325 · · Score: 1

    I think it should be illegal for depictions of sodomy to be sold, as well as sites that do not require age verification through some type of identification that's hard to fake like through your we can because of the health risks involved with sodomy, which include std's, internal bleeding when the intestinal wall is ruptured, etc. I also think cartoons depicting it should be illegal also because of the risk of exposure to children, and their desensitization causes a further health risk, as well as its obviously abuse for a child to end up with this material by the permission of the child's parents, duh.

  75. Re:Loveley, to live in a Republic! by Randle_Revar · · Score: 1

    When the GP was collapsed, I saw your "137" and thought I recognized it, and I was right. That comment is just how he (t)rolls. Fun guy, really.
    Kids these days don't even know the elders...

  76. Re:Loveley, to live in a Republic! by 517714 · · Score: 1

    ... the childish bickering that is as much a part of UK politics as it is the US

    I'm pretty sure that's not possible.

    --
    The US government have made it clear that we have no inalienable rights; any we do not defend vigorously will be taken.
  77. Not so bad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    As long as I'm free to answer:

    Yes, I do have kids.
    No, I do not want any internet filtering.

    I'm happy with this move. They're not trying to ban porn and it seems they are not trying to apply non-optional or hidden filters (well, obviously there's the fucking IWF list but let's ignore these wretched scum for now), they're simply raising awareness and suggesting/supplying optional filters while taking note of your choices.

  78. Re:Sorry kids...Hypocrisy Alert... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    True. Everything he knows about God, he heard from other men... but the full implications of that evidently haven't sunk in yet.

    They probably will, eventually. He doesn't sound like an idiot.

  79. The Ultimate goal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hopefully they will mandate the use of some specific MS filter. That will be ultimate solution to get rid off Linux users.

  80. Porn watching stops now by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Some may think this is about kids but how do the ISP handle the question "do you have kids and if yes which computer should we block?".
    Just a thought. They probably have to block at least one computer.

  81. Brave new world by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And now if the kids DO find porn (as they are harmed by it), the police will both raid your home and the ISP to find out and "security" deficiencies.

  82. Better solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Better solution would be to filter every pic/video for porn. The best solution would be to have the check made by UEFI with and the content checked by MS. Better yet, why not have just a white list of the files you can view.

  83. Re:Loveley, to live in a Republic! by madprof · · Score: 1

    This is very amusing. I only wish you could add this reply to most of the posts on /.

  84. Re:Loveley, to live in a Republic! by madprof · · Score: 2

    "Being a retard on the Internet since 1997..." (actually probably plenty before this too)

  85. Gay or bi by tepples · · Score: 1

    You bring up an interesting point. One reading does imply that only bisexuality is banned. I'll have to ask an elder about that.

  86. Re:Loveley, to live in a Republic! by History's+Coming+To · · Score: 1

    Oh trust me, we're working on it. Over the last few years I've formed the opinion that party politics are one of the most harmful elements of the modern world. When the good of the nation takes a back seat to keeping the party sponsors happy there's something seriously wrong.

    --
    Please consider this account deleted, I just can't be bothered with the spam anymore.
  87. Nanny by jimmy_dean · · Score: 1

    For those who are generally ok with the government knowing best for them, how can you justify your position with something like this? It clearly is something so egregious, so ridiculous, so out-of-bounds! Honestly, how is this about protecting people at all and not about special interests, money and more power? I find people who trust their government officials to do the "right thing" for the "greater good" to be really naive. The best kind of government is the one that does the minimal. Protects justice by providing a judicial system to resolve conflicts after the fact, a defense force that protects the borders and does not get involved in offensive wars or peace missions (unless invited by allies), and highly federal (meaning localized, not nationalized) police forces. This is the only way to keep things like this ridiculous new power grab from happening. But even then, I'm pessimistic that such a government wouldn't still grow into the tyrannical behemoths that we have today in the "free" world. How can anyone defend such power grabs?

    --
    -> Sometimes, you just gotta break free from the shackles of proprietary code.
  88. research by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    reading the title just reminded me that i need to swap to incognito begin research. will report my findings in about 20 minutes.

  89. Re:Sorry kids...Hypocrisy Alert... by PlusFiveTroll · · Score: 1

    When you stereotype a group, you end up making enemies with the entire group.

    Last time a guy did that to a group of jews, they tossed him over to the authorities to be nailed to a cross.

  90. My kids are my responsibility. by jep305 · · Score: 1

    I have children. That was a personal choice I made. I take care of them. I don't expect you to tolerate being inconvenienced by them. I don't expect you to "protect" them with idiotic limitations on your personal freedoms. I don't expect you to watch what you say, or how you dress, etc. I don't expect you to pay more for a TV so that all TV's will have v-chips and I can abdicate my responsibility to a machine.

    Unfortunately, I have come to expect that the government will push this kind of shit on you and blame it on me.

    --
    In Reason We Trust
  91. Port numbers, NSFNET, and BBSes by tepples · · Score: 1

    Blocking 443 wouldn't help either, you'd have to block ports 1..65535

    How many web URLs that include an explicit port number do you see in your daily web surfing? How many such URLs does an average home user see? I'm a geek, and only one web site that I visit routinely includes an explicit port number. Otherwise, the browser will assume 80 for HTTP or 443 for HTTPS.

    It came with a game I bought. Installed the disc, and it demanded to install Steam.

    So I'll assume you learned about the game through word of mouth and took the bus to a retail store to buy the boxed game. Are you sure Steam doesn't communicate on port 80 or 443 when activating or patching a game?

    I was in four [online communities] before Marc Andreeson decided to have a bash at this thing called Mosaic.

    As an online user prior to the Internet's opening to the public, you are an edge case. Mosaic started in the fourth quarter of 1992. NSFNET wasn't open to users outside universities and the military until 1992, when the U.S. Congress passed the Scientific and Advanced-Technology Act that turned NSFNET into the Internet. Before then, the only online communities open to the public were local BBSes and the big national BBSes such as Prodigy, GEnie, AOL, and CompuServe. Please prepend the following to each of my previous replies to you: "For the vast majority of home users..."

    1. Re:Port numbers, NSFNET, and BBSes by Cederic · · Score: 1

      So I'll assume you learned about the game through word of mouth and took the bus to a retail store to buy the boxed game.

      How fucking young are you?

      Yes. Yes, that's how we used to do it. Yes, that's still possible. Yes, that's exactly what I did to acquire the game in question.

      Sorry, your point?

      Please prepend the following to each of my previous replies to you: "For the vast majority of home users..."

      Prevent access to material via ports 80 and 443 will lead to them being accessed via other ports. Hence the need to shut down every available port if you really want to stop this.

      Examples: NNTP. FTP. Napster. Kazaa. Tor. Bittorrent.

      All used by a vast number of home users. Cut off access to porn on port 80 and watch the use of alternate protocols rise.

      I may be an edge case but you're such a geek you can't see the real world.

  92. But I'm all grown up now by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It almost makes me want to buy a new PC just to get to answer 'yes' to this question 'cos I bet it doesn't ask how old they are. My son is 21 now which means he's big enough and bad enough to cope for himself in most parts of the civilised world.... and America (sorry old Goons joke there). But yes I do have children and it is up to me if they get access to internet porn or internet violence not the government.

    I'm more worried by the amount of violence that kids get exposed to in the media than a bit of sex, which is why we're all here anyway. Sex is the only point of existence in the long run - gotta propagate those genes.

  93. Make Violence not Love by Gallomimia · · Score: 1

    Alright so let's make damn sure none of the children can view nude women or sexual acts using their computers, but permit violent video games, movies, and yes even cartoons. I'm sure that will foster a loving and peaceful society.

    --
    Sadly, a Libertarian cannot force his views on another, and freedom cannot spread as does the cancer known as religion.
  94. Gay, not bi. 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 by tepples · · Score: 1

    Wait, so if I don't let chicks give me head, it's okay if i let dudes do it?

    I asked an elder of my congregation about this, and he pointed me to a passage where Paul refers plainly to "men who lie with men" as an example of people who will not "inherit God's kingdom." (1 Corinthians 6:9-11) This passage does not mention bisexuality, only homosexual acts. But Paul goes on to write: "And yet that is what some of you were, but you have been washed clean" through Christ. Apparently, Paul believed that one could pray away the gay.

  95. Peer discovery by tepples · · Score: 1

    Sorry, your point?

    Allow me to repeat part of the paragraph that you ended up not quoting: Are you sure Steam doesn't communicate on port 80 or 443 when activating or patching a retail game discovered through word of mouth?

    Cut off access to porn on port 80 and watch the use of alternate protocols rise.

    Watch HTTP on ports other than 80 rise and watch ISPs cut off HTTP using deep packet inspection. Watch well-known protocols other than HTTP rise and watch ISPs cut off Gopher as well.

    In an Internet protocol, peer discovery occurs through discovery nodes. The discovery nodes of the well-known Internet protocols are the DNS servers and the search engines. ISPs have shown themselves able and willing to block access to publicly known discovery nodes in an attempt to stop erotic entertainment and copyright infringement at the border. Napster and BitTorrent, for example, rely on trackers at well-known hostnames; those can be blocked. Even trackerless BitTorrent relies on the well-known hostname router.bittorrent.com to bring a new user into the DHT network; eMule similarly relies on the ed2k servers before a user can join the Kad Network. Fully friend-to-friend systems such as Freenet move peer discovery out of band, but I haven't seen those systems take off among the majority.

    1. Re:Peer discovery by scared+masked+man · · Score: 1

      Freenet hasn't taken off because there isn't a killer app: BitTorrent is more efficient, and safe enough (and doesn't have corruption issues with it's download buffer (which also mangles your download queue)).

      If BitTorrent became unreliable, popular use would switch to Freenet or GNUnet (and maybe Toad would switch from db40 to something more reliable). Of course, then it too would be blocked, but apparently there is work being done on transport plugins so Freenet traffic can be encapsulated in other transport streams.

  96. Sparing the rod by tepples · · Score: 1

    If God is all-powerful and capable of defining the rules of the universe, then if he could define the rules so that Jesus's death was an adequate balance for everyone's sin, why couldn't he have defined the rules such that Jesus's death was also unnecessary (he could have just forgiven the debt unilaterally, or extended an offer to forgive the debt to anyone who claimed it, which would be functionally identical except no-one had to be tortured).

    So I asked an elder of my congregation to explain why a ransom has to be necessary.

    First, Jehovah is a god of justice. (Psalm 37:28) Man is created in God's image (Genesis 1:27) and it is God's job to decide what's appropriate. There need to be consequences for people's actions or people won't have any incentive to do things that please God. The rule that "the wages sin pays is death" (Romans 6:23) is there to give people a chance to show that they can handle their free will.

    And these rules need to be consistent to be fair. If God were to change that rule, there would be no way to answer the challenge that Satan brought in Eden, namely an allegation God does not want what is best for mankind and is withholding things from mankind. (Genesis 3:1-5) In effect, Adam and Eve stole from God: they took something belonging to God despite God's order not to. They saw right and wrong and chose wrong. Later, Satan taunted Jehovah about Job, claiming that Job would give up on God if God were to allow certain alleged unfair advantages to be taken away. (Job 1:7-10) And even Paul, like Adam and Eve, "was ignorant and acted with a lack of faith." --1 Timothy 1:13.

    God's purpose with mankind is that people "should be saved and come to an accurate knowledge of truth," and Jesus is how this is accomplished. (1 Timothy 2:3-6) Just forgiving sin without payment wouldn't help give accurate knowledge, nor would it free our senses from the snare of the Devil. (2 Timothy 2:25-26) And without this accurate knowledge, there would be no way to answer Satan's challenge, and more people would agree with the sentiment behind this challenge and turn away from God.

    Imagine a contest about keeping a hand on a car to win the car. If a competitor didn't lose when pulling his hand off, the others wouldn't think that fair. But if he came to the next contest and won legitimately, it'd still be fair to award him the car. In this analogy, Jesus started a new contest.

    Man ruling over man hurts man, (Ecclesiastes 8:9) and this grieves God's holy spirit. (Ephesians 4:30) Why should Jehovah have to take it on the chin and spare the rod? --Proverbs 13:24.