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Student Refusing RFID Badge Now Fights Expulsion Order
BeatTheChip writes "Lawyers representing Andrea Hernandez, a science and engineering student at John Jay High School, are fighting an expulsion notice issued a week ago for refusing to wear a Smart ID badge. To represent her, lawyers filed a preliminary court injunction, seeking legal restraints on the school. She maintains stance of refusal to wear any badge containing an RFID tag for reasons of basic privacy and conflicts with her belief system. The controversial decision for her school to adopt the NFC badges is part of the Student Locator Project, tracking attendance. Local schools started issuing the lanyard badges this fall despite parental outcry at NISD school board meetings."
Wear it all day long.
The school has a right to watch its costs and protect their students. If not then the lawyers will go after them for not using RFID yada yada.
For someone who works in the education system, I have to say the reason for this is money. The budgets are set on enrolled students. Not paper enrolled but physically enrolled each day. If a poor inner city school has a 20% truancy problem, then the budget is cut 20% and the teachers are fired.
I am more upset at the lawyers who are costing teachers jobs and I doubt their parents are in it for their child. They have a free lottery ticket at someone elses expense. Perhaps if parents were not so sue happy American schools could successful compete with Asian and European counterparts.
Schools have a right to enforce a learning environment as oppressive as some of the highschool slashdotters readers who want to say otherwise. At work you have to do what your boss says or you will be shown the door. What is so different with school. These are not implanted chips or anything and with drug dealers, pedophiles, and other problems it is not a bad idea to track where each student is.
http://saveie6.com/
Thank you for fighting for our freedom. Too few people do. Best regards, mrjb
Visit http://ringbreak.dnd.utwente.nl/~mrjb/growingbettersoftware to download your free copy of the book
So lets say theoretically the students do not use them. Does the school still have cameras and do teachers still take attendance? The answer is yes.
Students are not property but at school property the administrators are responsible and have a right to look after their students.
http://saveie6.com/
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
For many Christian families, including the Hernandez’, the mandatory policy is eerily close to the predictions of Revelations 13: 16-18, which warns of the Mark of the Beast:
16 He causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads,
17 and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or[a] the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
18 Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man: His number is 666. (New King James Version)
If you voluntarily enter someone's property, then they should have the right to set the terms of entry. If they want to put a sign up that says "no clothes allowed" then you had better get naked when entering their property.
However, students do not voluntarily enter school. They are required by law to be there. Requiring students to give up rights because they entered your property, when you forced them to enter the property, isn't fair.
But students are minors and are not granted the same rights as adults because they aren't as capable of accepting responsibility as adults. If some rights need to be restricted to maintain order - like drug sniffing dogs being allowed to check lockers without a warrent - then so be it but we should try not to over do it. This RFID thing is over doing it.
I often don't like the choices people make, but I like the fact that people make choices. That's why I'm a conservative.
They are required by law to be at A school, not THIS school. There are many other options for schooling.
XDInd
The "parental outcry" should result in voting in a different board of trustees.
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
However, students do not voluntarily enter school. They are required by law to be there. Requiring students to give up rights because they entered your property, when you forced them to enter the property, isn't fair.
Yes, they do. The are not required to attend a physical school building. They can be home schooled. I see this as no different from a dress code that virtual every school has.
Sure, it's the same thing. Except it's not the same.
Sure, it's the same thing. Except it's not the same.
You are going to have to explain this one.
You obviously failed when taught logic.
Government compels a child to be attend by the force of law, whereas work does not share that whatsoever.
This is "virtually" asinine in terms of comparison.
No right to privacy? There are cameras in the toilets then? Just because you own the property doesn't mean you can do anything you want to people in it. Or even do anything you want to the property. Nowadays in some places even squatters have some rights when staying in property that's not theirs!
Go look at the modern laws governing landlords and tenants. The old laws may have been different - back then if you were a tenant aka serf/peasant the Lord of the Land could fuck your girlfriend or wife (or you) whenever he wanted to, even on your wedding night.
Maybe she wants to go back to the bad old days?
"for reasons of basic privacy and conflicts with her belief system"
I agree with half of her case.
But someone's "belief system" shouldn't exempt them from following the rules and laws of the land. Otherwise pedo Mormons could marry 13 year-olds, hardcore Muslims could keep their female children out of schools, and fundie Christians could stalk those who are having abortions.
You should oppose a rule because it is wrong for the population, not because it conflicts with your belief system.
'The controversial ID badge includes the photo and name of each student, a barcode tied to the student’s social security number, as well as an RFID chip which pinpoints the exact location of the individual student, including after hours and when the student leaves campus.'
RFID chips don't work that way. They don't know their location. They seem to be worried that the RFID will be read by someone else when the student is off campus. All the student has to do is remove the RFID chip when off campus.
http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95
Sorry, I won't "get used to it" perhaps you should get "used to the idea" that people don't want it.
Om, nomnomnom...
The old USA continues to get scarier and scarier
Every job I've had since graduation in '99 has come with the requirement of an RFID tag either as a key fob or in my ID. I wore it with no question because otherwise, I wouldn't have been able to open any doors.
XDInd
It may well violate her religious beliefs for which she should be exempt and it has long been the case that students' 4th Amendment rights are suspended while on campus at a public school. Since the ID only applies during school hours, is not implanted and is not actively transmitting her location, I fail to see this problem. It isn't dehumanizing to keep track of students on campus, it is responsible. It isn't a violation of her privacy as on school grounds you have relatively little. It isn't eavesdropping on her personal conversations. It's to keep students from cutting class! Nothing more. Can someone please explain why this is a problem?
How is it different than using such a lanyard to enter your office at work?
First, you are not required to get at an office that requires you to wear a lanyard. You can work independently or choose a different company or you can choose to do nothing (you'll starve, but no one will bother you while you do it).
Second, lanyards don't always contain RFID. A badge only tells those you meet who you are and where you are. RFID can allows the government to track your every move. It's the difference between having a license plate on your car and having a tracking device installed on your car.
I often don't like the choices people make, but I like the fact that people make choices. That's why I'm a conservative.
Anyone whose brings "against my belief system" to a court of law and expects special consideration because of that should lose.
For every problem, there is at least one solution that is simple, neat, and wrong.
Student Refusing RFID Badge
refusal to wear any badge containing an RFID tag
school to adopt the NFC badges
One of these things is not like the other.
Dress code is less intrusive. In fact it's not intrusive at all. Also, home schooling is an option but it is a very difficult option. The government shouldn't be placing parents in the difficult position of having to quit their jobs and take up full-time education or else have their child's privacy massively intruded upon.
I often don't like the choices people make, but I like the fact that people make choices. That's why I'm a conservative.
Okay what is your alternative?
http://michaelsmith.id.au
They are required by law to be at A school, not THIS school. There are many other options for schooling.
None that are practical for most people.
I often don't like the choices people make, but I like the fact that people make choices. That's why I'm a conservative.
The school letter says that they offered her the opportunity to wear an ID with the "battery and chip removed" on two occasions and she refused.
So this isn't about RFID, it's about wearing ID.
Technological "invasion" of privacy is not a problem when it simply augments what is already in place physically, i.e., I have no problem with security cameras at a bank, because it is a public area which you enter with the expectation of it being fully monitored and guarded at all times, regardless of whether a camera system is installed. Adding a camera system does not fundamentally impact your expectation of privacy at a bank. I *do* have a problem with sticking cameras on every telephone poll in the city. I expect police to patrol the streets, and give periodic checkups on how things are going, but monitoring every nook and cranny simultaneously and being able to follow my movements camera-to-camera is a gross change and significant limiting of my normal expectation of privacy.
In this case, the girl is minor for whom the school is assuming responsibility during school hours and it is *expected* that they will be supervising her at all times. If teachers don't know where she is or what she is doing at any time during her stay that is indicative of negligence on their part, regardless of whether an RFID monitoring system is in place. So, as long as an uncovered and functional RFID tag is something she is only required to carry on school grounds, and she can put it in a foil sheath before and after, I do not have a big problem with the school adding some automation to what is already a comparable level of physical monitoring.
I'm not saying there aren't some slippery slopes to be vigilant against, but as it's been described, I don't think she is losing much if any privacy by using the school ID card.
When things get complex, multiply by the complex conjugate.
...is that so many others complied.
Government schools have degenerated into starter-prisions.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
I believe the AC was alluding to the difference between a voluntary and an involuntary transaction.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
No right to privacy? There are cameras in the toilets then? Just because you own the property doesn't mean you can do anything you want to people in it. Or even do anything you want to the property.
If you make it clear to anyone who wishes to use your restroom that there are cameras in there - and you do so early enough that they aren't forced into using the restroom anyway due to an emergency, then yes you should have a right to put cameras there. People who volunteer to use your property should follow your rules - but they should do so knowingly and if you are doing things that violate people's reasonable expectations of privacy then you need to tell them up front before any violation occurs.
Nowadays in some places even squatters have some rights when staying in property that's not theirs!
No, squatters don't have rights when staying on property that isn't theres. They have privileges granted them by an insane government that doesn't care if it violates the rights of property owners.
Go look at the modern laws governing landlords and tenants. The old laws may have been different - back then if you were a tenant aka serf/peasant the Lord of the Land could fuck your girlfriend or wife (or you) whenever he wanted to, even on your wedding night.
Some rights are more important than others. The right of a husband outranks the right of property.
I often don't like the choices people make, but I like the fact that people make choices. That's why I'm a conservative.
After reading the article, I can't find any issues here that can really be raised for a minor in school, that the school is responsible for, that is essentially any different than the school id I had 20 years ago. In the article, it even states the school offered to remove the RFID functionality so that the picture / barcode was left. Even then, wtf, its RFID, not GPS. It's not going to track her location at home and even then, the school isn't telling her to never take it off outside of school hours.
Just more random thoughts:
1) Just like my id from 20 years ago, we had to scan in the mornings for school for attendance which actually made it more efficient for school admins to get a quick idea of who wasn't there and contact parents quickly. The other option is having teachers do it manually, typing into system, and wasting their time.
2) She's a minor that during school hours, the school is responsible for. More power if the school during those hours has a way to keep track of students on property (or lack of being on property) in a more secure way. I bet if for some reason she snuck off and something happened, these parents would be suing for neglecting to keep track of their kid during school hours.
3) If this is such a huge issue, why aren't people going bat shit crazy having to wear their work ids, which most have barcodes, pictures, and rfids these days. Really no difference here people. Wear to work / school, both track you entering and leaving, then that is it.
4) Their reasoning for religious is pure bs. My kid shouldn't wear a badge with the picture during school hours is the mark of the beast. Can you reach any harder for non sense. Again, lots of people for work do the same thing.
She was offered a badge without an RFID chip in it. She refuses to wear a badge of any sort.
This system very likely is networked with the entire school district so as to collect total attendance numbers for the district.
Considering the average level of network security that exists in most public school system IT departments (ie pwn-able by a savvy 12-yo), this looks like "Easy Internet Shopping For Pedophiles" as they can confirm their targets' location and schedule. And/or, they can snatch a kid, then just insert fake card-swipe data events to mimic the kid being at school and not chained to a wall somewhere. "Little Suzy has perfect school attendance, although nobody has seen her for months..."
Strat
Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
Even if you notify people about cameras in toilets (I don't go to a "restroom" to have a rest) I don't think you'd have any chance of winning any court cases from disgruntled people. Just because you own the property, you can't make arbitrary rules and infringe on other people's rights.
You're a temporary arrangement of matter sliding towards oblivion in a cold, uncaring universe
You, sir, are a fool and are incapable of using logic.
School is mandatory and work is voluntary.
You're a temporary arrangement of matter sliding towards oblivion in a cold, uncaring universe
Why does there have to be one? You're starting from the solution to an as yet undefined problem. I see the solution as the problem.
"Wait. Something's happening. It's opening up! My God, it's full of apricots!"
Why do people insist on technological solutions for problems that don't need them?
Voting machines - pointless; the number of volunteers or local government workers that can be drafted for a day scales with the size of the population.
RFID badges for students to track attendance? Don't kid these days spend their lesson in front of a teacher, who could check attendance manually in about 30 seconds....like they have always done. I mean, what problems are they trying to solve?
no taxation without representation!
I think it is important to make a distinction between RFID and NFC. NFC works only at very short ranges (a cm at most). So basically is only useful for tapping your card on a reader. This has a very different implication to RFID which can be scanned from several feet away, allowing much more ubiquitous monitoring without the input of the person being monitored.
The school is owned by the people, and the students are required by law to be there. So long as school is compulsory, the right to privacy should be honored, as they can't get privacy by staying at home, which and adult could do by quitting their job, if they so chose.
And the school doesn't own the property, the teachers and administrators don't either.
Learn to love Alaska
No, there is always s "default" school. They are, unless something else is set up, required to be at this specific school, and going to any other one will not satisfy that requirement without additional work, usually work the student can not do themselves. So, there is nothing the student themselves can do to prevent them from being required by law to be at that school.
Learn to love Alaska
This slashdotter thinks you shouldn't let your SO represent you in any legal matters ;-)
The owner (or renter) of the property is not at issue here. If, say, your state had a requirement that all students had to complete 100 hours of community service to graduate, and that they had to wear an RFID tag while doing that service work, it would be exactly the same situation wherever the community service took place.
The issue is the extent to which a public school system can enforce the surrender of some of your privacy and freedoms. Your child must attend a school or be homeschooled, and for almost all families the only option that makes sense is to enroll your child in the public school suggested / mandated by the school board. Given that we, the people, have decided that you are all but required by law to send your children to this school, we the people are well advised to tread extremely carefully in reducing the rights of you and your child any further. Whether this case is an acceptable infringement is up for debate, and the argument needs to include a review of the benefits to individual students, the collective student body and the school administration. Personally I doubt it would pass my internal bar for acceptable, but I haven't heard all the arguments.
The subject who is truly loyal to the Chief Magistrate will neither advise nor submit to arbitrary measures (Junius)
No, squatters don't have rights when staying on property that isn't theres. They have privileges granted them by an insane government that doesn't care if it violates the rights of property owners.
The right to life trumps the "right to profit." A rental property (or other non-occupied property) with a squatter in it doesn't violate the owner's rights. If the owner is occupying the property (and no, showing up after they hear about a squatter isn't occupying it), then the owner has full rights, as someone else in their house does infringe on their rights.
Learn to love Alaska
Whether this is an issue or not, linking to infowars is irresponsible of slashdot. Inforwars is a conspiracy nutjob site, not a credible or trustworthy news source. Find a better source or don't post BeatTheChip
"goodbye and hello, as always" ~Prince Corwin, from Zelazny's Amber series
>This is no different than if an employer requires an employee to wear an RFID badge at work. If you choose not to wear the badge you are fired for not following policy. Same thing at this school; if you don't wear the badge you are expelled (virtually the same as getting fired).
No, they are exact opposites. Employer pays you - and you show up by choice (you have a legal right to quit). You pay the school (through taxes and fees).
They are the ones serving YOU.
Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
> I see this as no different from a dress code that virtual every school has
Yeah those are just as evil a violation of basic rights. I have long since made up my mind that I will NEVER subject my kids to a school with uniforms OR a dress code.
You know why ? Because any teacher who thinks either of those things is a good idea is going to teach my kid things that I would prefer to protect them from. Bad values like "conformity" and "obedience".
I would prefer to raise my kids to subscribe to values like "individuality" and "critical thinking".
If that means homeschooling is the only option then I'll find SOME way to do it.
For the life of me I'll never figure out on what basis you Americans decided that children should NOT have the right to free speech and self-expression - they need it perhaps even MORE than adults do.
Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
Oh and to show I'm not a hypocrite, I live by my own rules, whenever I get contacted by a headhunter about a possible position - the first thing I tell them is "No dress-codes - I refuse to work for any company that tells me how to dress or look, so check with your client first, because they can't pay me enough to change my style."
I am merely aiming to secure the same rights for my children.
Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
The idea of "jus primae noctis" is fictional, a device for novels and jokes.
Also, what has happened to English teachers? Mine were a collection of anti-authoritarian left-wingers (went to those hotbeds of Leninism Oxford and Cambridge). They would all have been horrified by this kind of measure because they believed that herding people destroys individual responsibility.
Since 1990, the USA and the UK have become more like the Soviet Union. And I notice that more and more people post on Slashdot in defense of the authorities, or supporting the arbitrary actions of employers. facilis descensus averni
From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
Clearly educational standards in the US haven't been raised by the supporters of RFID tracking.
From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
Where you are taught and tested on how to have no free will and give up any rights someone in authority asks for so that one day you can be a model slave, errr.... worker.
I know what are these schools trying to do, prepare students to get a job someday?!
my karma will be here long after I'm gone
You're acting out of fear, and trying to solve a social problem with cheap technology rather than fixing expensive underlying problems.
Most paedophiles aren't random strangers, but people known to the child. They probably have access to a pass (take it from son/nephew/etc), or can just follow someone into the building. My school had occasional problems with theft, as -- even though we had code-locks -- thieves would just follow a child (and it wasn't the responsibility of an 11 year old to challenge the thief).
she carries a cell phone w/ GPS.
Whatever your position, you're ill suited to it and doing students a great disservice. Get out, now.
This is about ego not money. This is a student at a magnet school. If her attendance was poor, her grades would be poor. If her grades were poor, she would be removed with good reason. Someone is offended that she isn't complying with a policy detail and has taken their offense to an unreasonable extreme.
Expulsion is an indelible mark on a student record that can have negative, life altering effects and should be considered with great care, and only after all other options have been exhausted. Even with a seemingly simple school switch as this, university admissions committees will wonder. It is sure to reduce her college options. Therefore if the student is otherwise in good standing, her refusal to wear an ID badge resulting in expulsion cannot be argued by an honest mind to be warranted.
In addition, said mind would be for and not against parents fighting that bureaucratic extremism with whatever means of process is at their disposal. They are not seeking damages, this is not a "free lottery ticket" as your surmised, this is trying to stop a terrible injustice.
As indicated when you said you were upset with the lawyers, and as shown when you failed to identify what is the root of the matter, you responded to this post emotionally. I could nevertheless understand these things. There are an unfortunate number of frivolous lawsuits out there that do great harm and your feelings attached to that could mask the ego at play here.
What disqualifies you from your job is not that. You must seek other employment, for the greater good, because you treat the heavy handed, life altering, negative act so lightly. That is what is most fundamental here. This is an execution to punish a passionate cry for reason.
It's too late for her, she'll already have a hard time getting into a decent college or decent job because as soon as anyone googles her name it's going to say she sued because she didn't want to follow the rules.
my karma will be here long after I'm gone
If you voluntarily enter someone's property, then they should have the right to set the terms of entry. If they want to put a sign up that says "no clothes allowed" then you had better get naked when entering their property. However, students do not voluntarily enter school. They are required by law to be there. Requiring students to give up rights because they entered your property, when you forced them to enter the property, isn't fair. But students are minors and are not granted the same rights as adults because they aren't as capable of accepting responsibility as adults. If some rights need to be restricted to maintain order - like drug sniffing dogs being allowed to check lockers without a warrent - then so be it but we should try not to over do it. This RFID thing is over doing it.
She was offered another school. Parents refused. They want to go to this school but they don't want to follow the rules. Like a kid that wants to go to a specific school but doesn't want to wear the school uniform yes some public schools require uniforms.
my karma will be here long after I'm gone
Assuming she finds work as an engineer somewhere, she will probably be issued an employee badge. She will then be asked to "badge in" when she comes to work each day. Is she going to sue her employer because this is against her belief system? Sorry, I agree with her in principle, but I' afraid she has just torpedoed her career.
but rather, being *removed* from an *OPTIONAL* magnet program (where students and parents are expected to follow ITS rules and policies, which will often, and in this case do, differ from the "regular" schools) and placed back in the regular, traditional high school which does not use these ID tags.
she is not being denied an education, she is not being denied a publicly funded education, her civil or constitutional rights are not being violated -- it was HER OWN CHOICE to apply-for and attend the magnet school instead of the 'regular' public school...
now, if ALL the schools in the district did the RFID tags or the district FORCED a student (without a history of disciplinary problems) to attend a school that did.. that would be different.
I think it has to do with degrees of removal from reality.
When there's a realistic system in place, people go along with it because it makes sense.
When there's not a realistic system, there's usually an "ideology" used to compel people to obey.
This drifts farther and farther away from reality and as a result, the state uses more control on its citizens.
They in turn react passively by being less productive and more corrupt.
Futurist Traditionalism
What ever happened to the teacher with the clip board taking attendance and the call home? So much for this high tech solution, again another example of a system that was never broke and got a fix and a better example of lazy ass teachers not wanting to do any work.
If she is so opposed to the wearing of ID based on her religious beliefs then perhaps she shouldn't be in science and engineering. She is eventually going to have to deal with a lot of stuff that violates her religious beliefs. Of course, that is only the case if they actually teach her science.
Ever since Columbine, we now have to treat our schools as institutions where kids are now treated no differently in some cases as inmates in a prison. Parents and administrators want complete situation awareness of where the kids are and there are thousands of vendors out there who will sell you any solution to fit any imaginary problem. I can certainly understand where this student is coming from because these solutions are often in direct conflict with educational institutions being safe and open places that foster learning and creativity. All of this however is throw out the window where potential benefits such as "tracking" and "safety" start getting thrown into the conversation. Other terms like "efficiency" and "freeing up teachers to teach" also get put into the sales pitch.
RFID is a cheap way to control access and for location tracking. If a parent comes to school to take their kid to a Dr. appt. No problem, just have the sensors ping and you can find the kid. The problem is that it all starts to sound a bit Orwellian and it will eventually lead to simple associations like "well if we put an RFID badge on them, why not a GPS?" It's a slippery slope and once it starts who knows where it will lead.
Look at the controversy now over license plate scanner technology. A tool to catch parking ticket violators and felons on the run has now turned into a tracking system whereby even if you're not a suspect you're getting tracked and now it's a source of data that can be mined. It's already started with putting these scanners everywhere, even the DEA wants to put them on highways to track drug traffickers.
The question we should all be asking ourselves is "Wait, where does this stop? Where does my privacy come into all of this? Where does my right to go about my business or travels freely without tracking my every stop come into this equation?" The sad, simple answer is that your privacy is the last thing any of the bureaucrats ever think of and trust me there's a stack of information on all of us now being collected, stored and probably mined that you don't have any visibility to. Yeah sure, we all want to prevent crime and we want our kids safe but this isn't the way we should be doing it because it creates a lot more problems than it solves and these are the kinds of problems that allow our government agencies to control us. Everyday now we have patents (like the one just mentioned this week from Apple) about new ways to track our every movement in every sense of the word and we should all be very, very concerned about this.
We should all have a right to "be forgotten" and not to be tracked for every damn thing we do. We should be able to opt-out and to actually know who's tracking us and why but guess what, you don't have that right.
So, let me give you a pragmatic example. I have two sons in High School. After Columbine and after a few other events like it, the local schools have essentially become locked-down campuses, most with dedicated local police onsite. If I go to the school for a meeting, I have to show a government issued photo id that is scanned into a computer to make sure I have no warrants or other items in my file somewhere that would represent a threat to the students, my kids, or staff. What criteria that is, the school will not tell me. If I'm in a divorce, could that mean I could be barred from taking my kids out of class? I don't know they won't tell me and that's all to have a parent conference or to attend a school function during regular school hours when the administrators are on the job. After class hours, the barriers become a little less constrained.
At the same High School where my sons attend, recently a girl was abducted on campus right after the school day ended by a known person, taken a few miles away, shot and dumped into a river. This known person was awaiting trial for
Harrison's Postulate - "For every action there is an equal and opposite criticism"
A valid pointabout dress codes but you dismiss the other side of it: when you have a dress code you don't have kids focusing on what Sally wore today or how little Jonny can't even afford a pair of pants that isn't five years out of style. Fashion is but thecsmallest part of self expression - and if you've ever seen kidswearing school uniforms, you know that even wearing the same clothes doesn't prevent creative ways of wearing them.
I would argue not that it stifles self-expression - of which clothing is but one small part - but that it allows for self-expression less on the basis of the income of one's family and more on the basis of the individual.
I grew up in a country where uniforms are the norm - even in private schools. In fact, I've never seen a school WITHOUT uniforms here.
Now it's true that some kids wear them creatively - it's also true that fashion is the least important part of self expression (though this is a LOT less true if you're a teenager) - but neither of these facts are relevant to my decision.
My decision is built on the idea that uniforms promote uniformity, dress-codes promote conformity. I consider both those things to be a blight on society which does incredible harm and the cited advantages simply don't outweigh that harm in the least (indeed they are false advantages - it's not like having uniforms meant we did NOT know who the poor kids and rich kids in school was, or stopped the rich bullies from picking on the poor kids - really it didn't, I lived through it).
Now to me - a school that institutes such a policy is inherently subscribing to the idea that uniformity and conformity are good things, that makes them by definition bad teachers in my book. I want my kids taught by people who believe that self-expression is a CRUCIAL right, that individualism is to be celebrated and that critical thinking begins with refusal to conform.
Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
I'm curious, how is this RFID badge any different than what corporate employees everywhere use on a daily basis? It seems to me that the whole point of this technology is to ensure safety and convenience. Instead of walking around with a plastic card some school employee has to visually inspect all you need here are wall mounted sensors. The school even offered disabling the card so. And seriously, what kind of privacy concerns would this kid possibly have?
Of all the legitimate concerns out there this one seems rather ridiculous. I notice some people complaining that it's a mark of conformity. This has always struck me as one of the more obnoxious aspects of American culture, the whole mentality that you should "be yourself." But the irony is that no culture seems so comfortable pigeonholing itself like Americans do. They're more likely to have their entire lives defined by specific interests. They're "being themselves" by wholly conforming to whatever niche to which they've decided they belong.
What the hell does carrying a damn card have to do with conformity anyway? You're in school to learn. If conformity is that big a concern, perhaps you should consider home schooling.
of the Deh-villlle!!! I am surprised that, if this is such a religious issue, she is already being home schooled by her Sister Moms
“16. He causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads, 17. and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or[a] the name of the beast, or the number of his name. 18. Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man: His number is 666.” (New King James Version)
The second you bring religion in to the mix you open up the right for anyone to deny anything because it's written down. There is nothing stopping me from saying I shouldn't be harassed for drinking and driving because my "bible" says
Thou who shall drink before driving will live in the lords presence, thou's who shall not will burn in hell.
The issue is that your arguing based on the fact a random book tells you to do something, a random book can tell me to do a lot of things, I'm just smart enough to not do them.
Where in the bible does it say an rfid tag is the mark of the beast?
If you have an RFID badge that you're forced to wear, just run it over the device they use to clear merchandise at many retail stores. Another thing you can do is short bursts in the microwave (1 second maximum) on high. Wait for the badge to completely cool down before doing mutliple doses, though! Remember, you're only required to wear it, not for it to actually work. And if you get questioned, be prepared to play dumb.
If you've notified them and they can go somewhere else, then you're not infringing on their rights. You may go to prison but that's not becuase you violated their rights, its because the government is violating yours.
I often don't like the choices people make, but I like the fact that people make choices. That's why I'm a conservative.
Their daughter qualified for the superior school based on her gradesl, now she's being told to go to to a school less suited for her unless she gives up her rights. I would hardly call that being "offered another school".
The key point here is that the government has the monopoly on force in this situation. Miss Hernandez's family doesn't have the option to take her money and go elsewhere. If she could then she would have reason to object. She take her money and look for a school that is able to provide the same education for the same price. Or she could start her own school and attempt to attract other students who share her concerns.
I often don't like the choices people make, but I like the fact that people make choices. That's why I'm a conservative.
>Is she never going to carry ID? I guess she win't be driving, joining a club, getting a job or leaving the country.
>All of these require carrying a numbered card which she refuses to do.
Generally you're right, but we're talking about Texas in this case.
Texas may be a little more liberty-loving than most places.
Consider Michael Badnarik, Libertarian Party candidate for president in 2004 and also a Texas citizen.
In his book(1), he claims that by consistently refusing to _have_ any government ID, much less carry one,
he can and does legally drive without licensing his car or himself. He also claims that this interpretation
has been tested in Texas court in the 1940s.
Perhaps the other things you mention would still require an ID in Texas, though I've heard that crossing :-)
the Texas-Mexico border without ID happens a lot.
(1) "Good to Be King: The Foundation of our Constitutional Freedom" ISBN 1-59411-096-4
Northside ISD is harnessing the power of radio frequency identification technology (RFID) to make schools safer, know where our students are while at school, increase revenues, and provide a general purpose "smart" ID card.
Empasis added.
The FAQ would seem to confirm this.
Q. What does this pilot cost and what is the projected additional revenue expected?
A. NISD will spend approximately $261,000 on this pilot for the two schools and expects to realize $2 million in additional revenues.
So, they expect an additional $1.739M in revenues out of this deal.
This would match up with my personal experience. I remember being told how important it was for students to be in school during a certain week in September or October, because this determined how much federal funding the school would get. Another example of the feds taking money, then using it to ransom state and local entities to get it back. "See also 55mph speed limits and moving the drinking age up from 18 to 21.
Reading the rest of the district page is fascinating. They go on to say, "The "smart" ID cards only work within the school." Interesting. I didn't know you could turn off an RFID chip, especially one with a battery powering it. Is there some supposed to be some way for it to be turned off automatically when they leave the premises?
After referring parents to the website of the contractor implementing the project, "Wade Garcia & Associates (WGA), we get some pseudo useful technical info.
Q.1 Could someone manufacture a copy of a WGA RFID reader and use it to intercept information transmitted by student RFID tags? A.1 WGA has approached this as an issue of system architecture. By ensuring that the âoesmartâ ID contains no information of interest to anyone, WGA has simultaneously removed any motive for cloning its reader and removed any problem if someone does clone its reader. The premise is simple: There is no information stored on any WGA âoesmartâ ID except its serial number. Therefore, an intruder or âoehackerâ can only learn that the tag serial number is, for example, #69872331, but that does not provide any useful information. The tag serial number is not the studentâ(TM)s school I.D. number. The studentâ(TM)s school ID number is stored on the school or Northsideâ(TM)s internal server and one would have to have access to the school or school districtâ(TM)s server and data base to determine what tag number can be associated with a studentâ(TM)s school ID number.
They don't address the first thing the kids will think of, how to clone the cards and have their friend carry it around and make it look like they are in class. I wonder what happens when someone figures out how to clone the cards, and there are 5 copies of every kids cards wandering around the school. That would be an interesting way to hack the system.
The FAQ also goes on to give some shocking information about Texas law regarding what information is "public", quoting from Texas Public Information Act, Texas Government Code, Chapter 552.
Another exception permits a school to non-consensually disclose personally identifiable information from a student's education records when such information has been appropriately designated as directory information. "Directory information" is defined as information contained in the education records of a student that would not generally be considered harmful or an invasion of privacy if disclosed. Directory information could include information such as the student's name, address, e-mail address, telephone listing, photograph, dat
file:
Since when is Infowars.com regarded as a reliable media outlet ? I always thought it was a moonbat site with clockwork elves and other batshit insane theories. #JustSaying
Wer war der Thor, wer Weiser, Bettler oder Kaiser? Ob Arm, ob Reich, im Tode gleich
Of course since this is a MAGNET school with a specialized program, they (students and parents) CHOSE to attend knowing the rules and conditions. If they find those rules so morally reprehensible, they can choose to attend their regular high school.
This is a pilot program for all the other NON-MAGNET schools in the area. If this shit continues ALL the other public schools in her district will have them, therefore your point is fucking moot.
http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/09/rfid-chip-student-monitoring/
Because your posts keep getting upvoted I'll post this in every one of them
http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/09/rfid-chip-student-monitoring/
Doesn't matter if they offered a different fucking school. They will all get RFID tags if this pilot program passes.
What would hapen if all the students their tags were put on just one back pack and then goes thru the reader?
So we went on an expensive Oldies holiday ['vacation'] in very foreign parts. The hotel wanted us to wear yuckie plastic adolescent wristbands to prove our right to unlimited 24-hour booze. Did I hell? - some of us have principles. (Yeah, but it made a great waterproof watchstrap when cut, and the bouncers respected that.)
Pretty much every tech. company, and a good many financial, travel, hospitality, law enforcement, and education employers, all use a similar system for security purposes. Good luck with that future career!
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/texas-students-rebelling-against-electronic-tracking-cards-now-facing-consequences/
http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/09/rfid-chip-student-monitoring/
You could put up a sign saying "Trespassers will be shot" and when you find someone walking on your property, you shoot them, but I'd definitely say that you were infringing on their right to not be killed. A reasonable person would not believe any such notice and it most certainly would not be lawful to shoot someone under those circumstances.
Ownership of property does not transform you into some kind of godhead - you still have to abide by the laws of the land.
You're a temporary arrangement of matter sliding towards oblivion in a cold, uncaring universe
Damn you and your fancy words!
I could find a very clever way to refute your post, but instead I shall divert your attention with the following URL http://walkingdead.net/perl/euphemism/
You're a temporary arrangement of matter sliding towards oblivion in a cold, uncaring universe
Just run the ID through a microwave oven. One caveat though - the overload may cause the card to erupt in flames!
To track the students....it has worked for CENTURIES. Ok class, be quiet...I need to TAKE ROLL CALL.....
A lot of these problems with schools could be solved if parents would get involved in their kids education and stopped using the school system for a glorified a babysitting service. What ever happened to a strong PTA? Back when I was in school my parents would attend regular PTA meetings. When there was a policy in the schools that the parents didn't agree with, they would tell the school board "no" and that was the end of it.
Supporting World Peace Through Nuclear Pacification
Bueller. Bueller. Bueller.
If this is about attendence, why not just take attendance at class like they have been since the first school since the dawn of time. Its not like this is a hard thing to do. Why the need for an RFID tag anyway. People already carry around ID if that is the concern. Why waste money on RFID tags and lawsuits and spend more money on books. Anyway I don't see the big deal about it either way for or against.
F.A.Q.
Northside ISD San Antonio
112 schools
100,000 students
RFID Pilot Program
Jones Middle School and John Jay High School
4,200 students
THREE GOALS
1.Increase student safety and security. Our students' parents expect that we always know where their children are in our schools.
2.Increase attendance. Through more efficient attendance management, schools can generate additional revenues by identifying students who are not in their seats during roll call but who are in the school and locate them. (Increased attendance = increased state revenues)
3.Provide multi-purpose "Smart" Student ID card. The Student ID will provide access to the library and cafeteria, serve as a photo ID, and allow for the purchase of tickets to schools' extracurricular activities. Other uses will be rolled out during the pilot program.
"Smart" Student ID Cards
I can't think of many big campus-like environments in the adult world --- whatever their purpose --- that don't restrict physical access, movement and access to services through the use of keys, cards, badges and so on.
Game the system and you will be out of a job.
Parents send their kids to the STEM magnet school because they are looking academic rigor and discipline in a safe and secure environment.
> One kid left in class, carrying 20 badges...
You might recall the scene from Real Genius, with the entire class represented only by tape recorders. ... and then the lecturer replaced by a tape player.
Of course nowdays, the lecture would be on an MP3 file on the teacher's web site for kids to ignore. Or maybe download and listen to. My money is on "ignore", though.
>This is no different than if an employer requires an employee to wear an RFID badge at work. If you choose not to wear the badge you are fired for not following policy. Same thing at this school; if you don't wear the badge you are expelled (virtually the same as getting fired).
No, they are exact opposites. Employer pays you - and you show up by choice (you have a legal right to quit). You pay the school (through taxes and fees).
They are the ones serving YOU.
The school taxes you pay do not pay for YOUR child, as you pay them only if you own property, regardless of if you have children attending the school. So saying that the fact that you pay school taxes gives your child the right to ignore the dress code doesn't really make much sense.
A dress code doesn't *have* to be overly restrictive. I've worked for companies where there is a dress code that explicitly stated that shorts or jeans were perfectly acceptable. You may be limiting your employment options if you dismiss companies with a dress code without actually knowing what it is.
Dress code is less intrusive. In fact it's not intrusive at all. Also, home schooling is an option but it is a very difficult option. The government shouldn't be placing parents in the difficult position of having to quit their jobs and take up full-time education or else have their child's privacy massively intruded upon.
I think out definition of "massively intruded upon" may be different. I don't see having to wear an RFID badge while in school as an intrusion. Attendance is already taken in classes, but it is time consuming; all RFID does is reduce the workload. If RFID based attendance increases teaching time, then I'm all for it.
...this is trying to stop a terrible injustice.
Ahhhh, yes the "terrible injustice" of having to carry an ID card.
The horror.
The horror.
She'll be well adjusted to work a world that runs on drivers licenses, credit cards, debit cards, library cards, etc.
Ironically, she won't be employable, but she will also be unable to collect welfare without her ID.
Right to life was stated in the declaration of independence. That's the one I was referencing. I am not anti-choice, so your drug induced racings missed the mark (so to speak - pun as my name is Marc).
Learn to love Alaska
Taking attendance pinpoints your location once an hour. RFID allows the school to pinpoint your location every second of the day. School uniforms don't allow you to track things like how many times a student goes to the restroom and how long she stays there each time. School uniforms don't allow you to analyze which other students she hangs around with or who her boyfriend is likely to be.
I often don't like the choices people make, but I like the fact that people make choices. That's why I'm a conservative.
Taking attendance pinpoints your location once an hour. RFID allows the school to pinpoint your location every second of the day. School uniforms don't allow you to track things like how many times a student goes to the restroom and how long she stays there each time. School uniforms don't allow you to analyze which other students she hangs around with or who her boyfriend is likely to be.
Umm.. No, it's doesn't. RFID isn't GPS. You need RFID readers to access the location. Unless they covered the entire school in RFID detecting wallpaper they don't know where the students are "every second of the day". I honestly don't know how the readers are laid out in this school, but based on every other RFID deployment I've seen they have readers located ONLY at the classroom entrances, and possibly the entrance and exits of the building it's self. All that will tell them is what the last classroom sensor they last passed was. Nothing about their romantic lives or who them hang out with, just what classroom they are in. It's no different than taking attendance.
...She wasn't refusing an ID card, she was refusing to wear a device that allows them to track her location at all times.
Yes, she also refused a regular card that didn't have the tracking capabilities. Which would indicate that this had nothing to do with 'tracking,' she didn't feel like following the rules.
With all the recent problems with security on campus, carrying a student ID card (tracking or non-tracking) is a reasonable requirement. It's not an 'injustice.' They weren't asking her to get a forehead tattoo.
Additionally, you call me a 'troll,' accuse me of being 'condescending' and 'failing' and not being 'adult,' all while posting AC. So it would seem that you like to be insulting under the cover of anonymity. Don't bother replying to this unless you become 'adult' enough to log in. I won't be reading it.
I assume this person is fighting the "mark of the beast" thing that preachers have been spouting.. Unfortunately, by fighting a simple id card, which she could simply have left in her locker at day's end, she'sonly giving the legislators ideas on how to force compliance when the *REAL M.O.T.B.* comes along, injected under the skin, and unremovable without drastic surgery..
I think it is the right of the school to require attendees to wear this, or they could be 'chipped' (their choice with approval of parents), or to not be allowed to attend the school. If they want to attend school they could be voluntarily incarcerated and attend a 'secure facility' provided by the state. Since no malfeasance is involved (in which case the state would provide this service through everyone's taxes over and above school tax) the parents should be required to pay for the additional fees required to maintain incarcerated persons. (In the order of $30K to $60K/yr in many places).
Or the parents could pay to have the child attend a private school, then it is not the problem of the school district.
Lots of options available. The judicial system (only because they are already being taken to court) just need to be 'creative'!
... "When you pry the source from my cold dead hands."
Throw the card in a microwave oven for a little bit, it should be exposed to enough energy to fry out its electronics then you can wear it all day without worrying about being tracked, of course it won't work to open doors anymore but that's not what they are really using them for is it.
What if the school keeps her out long enough to let her teachers flunk her for missing tests or homework?