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Responding to US Gambling Law, Antigua Set To Launch "Pirate" Site
An anonymous reader writes "The Government of Antigua is planning to launch a website selling movies, music and software, without paying U.S. copyright holders. The Caribbean island is taking the unprecedented step because the United States refuses to lift a trade 'blockade' preventing the island from offering Internet gambling services, despite several WTO decisions in Antigua's favor. The country now hopes to recoup some of the lost income through a WTO approved 'warez' site."
if they call the site "Pirates of the Caribbean"
The United States can't really stop Antigua from running a gambling website.
They can however forbid US payment processors from processing online gambling payments. If that is how they're stopping Antigua now, I can't imagine this warez site will be different. Do you think US payment processors will handle these payments?
http://blindscribblings.com - Tasty pop-culture in conceptual fashion.
...It also would serve as a major impediment to foreign investment in the Antiguan economy, particularly in high-tech industries,” the U.S. added. Antigua doesn’t appear to be impressed much by these threats and is continuing with its plan.
LOL? Who gives a rat's ass for high-tech in Antigua? I suspect life there is about tourism, boobs and booze!
High-tech to Antigua is like McAfee or Kim Dotcom parking his yacht there!
maybe all those who got free money from the US for the past 40 years?
The Caribbean island is taking the unprecedented step because the United States refuses to lift a trade "blockade" preventing the island from offering Internet gambling services, despite several WTO decisions in Antigua's favor. The country now hopes to recoup some of the lost income through a WTO approved 'warez' site.
I'm pretty sure Antigua and Barbuda attended and signed the Berne Convention and have joined WIPO. Furthermore I believe the WTO is fully on board with all that considering their TRIPS agreement. So how in the hell is there such a thing as "a WTO approved 'warez' site" and how on Earth does Antigua think the WIPO is going to view this?
Note: I'm not saying what they're doing is wrong or right, I'm just asking how they are doing it given their history. I mean, sure, this stuff happens all over China but the government pays all the copyright holders lip service about how they're cracking down on it. If the Chinese government profits from it, they don't do so flagrantly like this appears to.
My work here is dung.
The US imposes its economic interests and cultural values on other sovereign nations every day.
The US has de facto jurisdiction almost everywhere on this planet, and there's nothing we can do about it as we don't get a vote, we're not Americans, we're just backward savages who don't understand what democracy and freedom means.
We are allowed to elect our leaders, as long as they are friendly to US interests. As a result we a free to be exploited by the US government and US based corporations in the guise of 'free trade', which in practice means the US government and certain corporations are free to acquire the natural assets of the client states ensuring the local population never sees the benefits.
Are they going to be charging for these downloads? Or are they going to be making their money through ads, the way MegaUpload did?
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
It's goatse!!!!!!!!!!!
The US has had a trade deficit for almost 40 years ...
That was my first thought, though it sounds like the 'powers that be' have been making noises about moving those soldiers into the African continent.
As far as foreign policy goes? Israel. Duh. They might be acting upset that Obama would dare suggest it's even possible that what they're doing could be wrong, but they still know the US and Obama are more pro-Israel than most of the world, and certainly anyone nearby.
As far as the country itself? I'm guessing there are a few countries smart enough to realize that our trade policy isn't the best way to define a whole country.
a middle finger pointing at like the outline of the United States.
Be seeing you...
Or did Jamaica copy of it?
Old pirates, yes, they rob I;
Put my music on computer chips,
Minutes after it came out
Dey had da dvd rips.
But my encryption was made strong
And de tracker updated nightly.
We download in this generation
Triumphantly.
Emancipate yourselves from license slavery;
None but ourselves can free our minds.
Have no fear for music industry,
'Cause none of them can stop the files.
How long shall they make their profits,
While we stand aside and look? Ooh!
We need movies and songs and games
Don't forget e-books
As a former resident of another Caribbean nation, this isn't very surprising outside the fact the government is directly involved.
Where I lived, there was the government "Ministry of Intellectual Property & Copyright" or something very similar, yet opposite the building was a street seller with counterfeit DVD's and CD's for sale.
The fact is in these countries, you pretty much can't buy music or movies legitimately that are otherwise available internationally. There's not enough market to make it worth setting up distribution networks and retailers. So what does get into these countries is often bought at retail in the US, shipped to the country, heavily taxed on import, then 100% markup on the total.
They often don't even bother to make promotional youtube videos for mainstream musicians available in these countries, so why would they bother actually trying to sell to a non-existant, economically fragile country of a couple hundred thousand people, many of whom are in poverty.
Australia. Australia desperately wants to be just like the US, good and bad (mostly bad).
Learn to love Alaska
Yeah, I hear the Pakistanis are REAL fans..
The US illegally abuses Antigua over IP, so Antigua abuses back. If the US respected rule of law and such, they'd not have started this mess. What a way to build a country indeed.
Learn to love Alaska
It just makes sense.
Why is Snark Required?
More likely Grenada 2.0, as soon as the government can gin up some "evidence" of "terrorists" using Antigua as a base of operations.
"They cannot dictate our laws, regardless of if those laws are dumb."
I didn't see anything about Antigua stopping the US from having copyright law.
I DO see you demanding that Antigua copy and mirror *US* copyright law.
And "taking other people's stuff?" No. Even the Supreme Court says you aren't right about that, they ruled that copyright violation is not theft. It's copyright violation.
And until the US started "dictating their laws" other countries had very different ideas on copyright.
This space available.
They cannot dictate our laws, regardless of if those laws are dumb.
And you cannot dictate their laws either, even the laws that legalize copyright infringement. Stop being a bigoted asshole.
Want an analogy? American alcohol companies get pissed they're not allowed to sell to Shariah-law nations, so the US decides to just steal their shit until they capitulate. Commodore Perry type shit. That's what this is. It's bad for everybody.
No, the analogy is flawed because US sites do online gambling. The analogy is if the US blocked all Toyotas from being sold because it would help GM make more money faster, while GM was still able to make all they wanted. Toyota/Japan complains it violates a treaty, and the US tells them "yes it does, go fuck yourself" and Japan wins the lawsuit in international court. The US fails to abide by their treaty they signed and ratified, so the international body agrees to waive other terms of the treaty that were binding on Japan.
This isn't about them being wronged, it's about them not respecting the sovereignty of another nation. They cannot dictate our laws, regardless of if those laws are dumb.
So, if the rest of the world doesn't respect US copyrights, but instead writes their own independent laws, we should invade them and kill them for not giving us the profit we feel we are due?
Learn to love Alaska
He's talking about hand outs give to nations, not commerce.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
either deliberately misleading or is just plain stupid by saying that IP violation is theft. It is not. Theft is a criminal offense, IP violation is a civil one.
FUCK'S SAKE! I don't AGREE with the anti-internet-gambling laws, I think they're full of shit -- BUT THIS SHIT HAPPENS ALL THE TIME. Antigua needs to get the fuck over it and move on.
Why? Or, why Antigua? Why doesn't the USA just get over it and follow the law?
Want an analogy? American alcohol companies get pissed they're not allowed to sell to Shariah-law nations, so the US decides to just steal their shit until they capitulate.
Not a good analogy. Neither American nor local companies can sell alcohol in such countries. The beef is that the USA is protecting its local gambling but forbidding international competition, which it has agreed not to do through its membership in the WTO
If I wrote a novel and Antigua started selling it, undercutting me and not compensating me in any way.. yes it would be just about time to grab your guns. This isn't about them being wronged, it's about them not respecting the sovereignty of another nation. They cannot dictate our laws, regardless of if those laws are dumb.
Copyright in stuff you write only extends outside the USA because of agreements with other sovereign nations. If the USA unilaterally breaks those agreements, then it's reasonable for the other parties to reciprocate. And yes, that means YOU got screwed. By your government. Not, actually, by the other nation. Direct your bile accordingly.
Protoplasm. Quiet Protoplasm. I like quiet protoplasm.
The analogy is flawed because the US is a patchwork of independent jurisdictions each with their own laws and hangups. You could get by the Feds but still end up encarcerated by some DA from Memphis.
This just goes to show that the US has no monopoly on being narcissistic jerks.
That goes for Antigua and it's fans.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
This is a rogue band of corporate fascists who have hijacked us. If you define them as the USA, then even the USA doesn't like the USA. So, speaking as a real American I say, "go for it"!
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
It sounds like a great time to install a pro-US democratic leader. Clearly the people are not being represented here by corrupt Antiguan monarchs and need our help. God bless America.
http://interserver.net/
America is a nation founded by Puritans. On any issue involving VICE, the situation is probably a lot more nuanced than people like you would be ever willing to admit.
We have dry street corners here.
The fact that some pissants in the Carribean got their panties in a bunch is actually pretty hilarious in that context.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
One of the things the WTO does when a country is found to violate WTO rules on tariffs, and where other methods of resolving the violation have not proven fruitful, is grant the victim special privileges against the aggressor in compensation (WTO members, by virtue of joining the WTO, grant the WTO authority to do this.) Relaxation of obligations under TRIPS is precisely what Antigua is seeking from the WTO in their application for permission to retaliate against the US violations. Antigua is hoping that the WTO
furthermore it's not even a violation... it's the contract - according to the wto treaty.
when repo guys come over, it's not theft or violation.
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
The prime minister, ambassador, king, el presidente.......whatever you call him to his face, is still a politician in his country of origin and very likely to represent the sentiment of his populace when describing his sentiment for yours. And by the by, there's the answer to your foreign policy question of the demi-decade, "Why do we continue to support Israel, at the expense of relations with every Arabian Middle Eastern Nation?" Because if there was a fight at the bar we all go to, we could be quite certain the Israelis and Brits would get beat up with us (and maybe even the Canadians and the Aussies). After that it gets pretty thin. Whether or not we kick Israel to the curb, no Muslim nation is really in our Alliance for a coon's age.
Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.
Ernest Hemingway
The USA have registered the most complaints - 104 according to this list - so is not averse to using the mechanism but feels free to ignore a ruling and you say the country should "get over it"?
If I had a novel and Antigua started selling it, I would go to my government and ask wtf? Why are you not abiding by the WTO decision? If you aren't going to abide by WTO rulings that don't suit you, wtf are you doing being a member of it??
Disclosure: I am not a fan of the WTO.
BM3
But the FEDERAL law specifically is in play. In fact, the USA has an internal restriction on the very same type of rules between states.
A better example of this situation would be if the state of Iowa banned gambling, and banned your ATM card from working at casinos in Las Vegas..... And if you did manage to gamble legally in Vegas you were thrown in jail when you got home. Tracking said banking transactions. The only comparable situation where states break the Interstate Commerce Clause are some of the anti-abortion laws.
No, gambling is easily interstate and/or international commerce. Congress has the power to ram it down the throats of states if they want to. Likewise, they can shut it down. But in the absence of complete regulation at the federal level, states have room to operate independently.
-- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
Reread your history. Antigua ran some pretty big online gambling sites - it was so big 5% of their workforce worked in the industry. Then the US applied pressure to cut off payments to Antigua's online gaming sites.
So Antigua retaliated through the WTO. No, it's not like selling alcohol to Shariah nations because the US isn't preventing that (it's the Shariah nations blocking imports) - it's more like the US cutting off sales of French wine by pressuring the banks to not allow payments to French wineries.
The WTO has continually stated (for over 5 years now) that Antigua is in the right and the US has enacted an unfair trade restriction, and to compensate for the loss of a significant part of the local economy, the WTO authorizes a suspension of $21M of copyright royalties annually until the US withdraws its trade block. The first dollar after that has to be paid to the US.
And don't think the US is very innocent in all this - the US is WELL KNOWN for ignoring the WTO when it doesn't suit them, and for enforcing the WTO rulings when it does. Just this time, one country actually has the balls to enforce the ruling against the US. Most other countries capitulate and even though they're in the right, they agree to whatever the US demands.
And $21M is but a drop in the water for the US entertainment industry (which does things in the billions). Hell, the RIAA/MPAA/etc argue they lose billions every year to piracy. $21M? Rounding error.
The biggest arguments going around is how much $21M is actually worth - does Antigua get to charge a penny? Or less? Or more?
And yes, it's supposed to disrupt the entertainment industry - perhaps by getting them to lobby for removal of whatever trade restriction there is. That's the entire point - the WTO is fed up with the US ignoring its rulings when it doesn't suit them.
Tell that to Aaron Swartz and Kim Dotcom.
Peter predicted that you would "deliberately forget" creation 2000 years ago...
Never mind that old "piracy is not theft" bit. The really funny part is the "government-authorized piracy" line - that sounds like the very definition of copyright in the first place since copyright is purely a government created exception to the natural right to freedom of expression.
When information is power, privacy is freedom.
Understanding the law has part to play in crafting sound bites to sell the boss' position to the people who don't know/care enough to understand it.
I seem to remember some former rebel colonies doing the same thing in their history.
You have pretty much all of your facts wrong. Here's the cliff notes:
Antigua believed the US effort to prevent Antigua-licensed online gambling companies from offering services to US punters was in violation of international trade law. In 2005, a World Trade Organization (WTO) appellate body agreed, and told the US to either shut down its domestic online horse betting operations or allow Antigua equal access. Instead, America chose ‘none of the above’ and in 2007 the WTO ruled Antigua was owed an annual $21m in compensatory damages. If the US refused to pay, the WTO authorized Antigua to collect by other means, such as disregarding US copyrights to a value equal to the annual damages owed.
Collective punishment for US copyright holders. Next they will invite the Mafia to start selling drugs to their citizens. What a way to build a country.
Just like the US continues to collectively punish foreign makers of light trucks worldwide with a 25% tariff, all because 50 years ago France and Germany had unfair restrictions on imports of US chickens.
At least this pirate business makes a little bit sense compared to that.
So that would be... basically, Israel. (Recipient of 25% of the total US foreign aid budget, and the only long-term beneficiary over that timescale.)
Wow, high horse much...
Go and READ the article... I know, it's a crazy thought. What you said is not even remotely what's going on.
Normal people worry me!
US has the right to control gambling within its borders.
They pass a law limiting US based citizens from from accessing these sites and or banks from transferring money to those sites.
While at the same time publicly and officially supporting online gambling, so long as it was within the US. A breach of a treaty the US agreed to.
And you are ok with this?
Yes.
Go back, reread what I just wrote, swapping Antigua for the US and vice-versa. Would you STILL feel the same way if the US declared all Antiguan copyrights fair game, simply because Antigua didn't want some predatory US industry doing business in their country?
The US is quite happy with the "predatory industry" so long as it's US companies preying on US residents. I'd be happy with it going the other way, but it *never* is. I was happy with Allofmp3, who violated no law, Russian, American, or international. But they were shut down because of US bribes and threats. Again, the US bullies internationally and ignores any law they don't like, or makes up ones they wish existed (see Kim Dotcom case falling apart in NZ and the court agreeing that the FBI involvement was illegal).
Why shouldn't Antigua honor US Gambling laws when doing business in the US?
They did. They were shut down anyway. Did you miss that point in the whole thing? They followed the laws a US gambling site would have to operate under (other than being in the US), and the US shut them down anyway.
Learn to love Alaska
Yeah, I've been there and have Australian residency, though I choose to not live there because I didn't like their desperate need to become the US. That my evidence is first-hand witness account, doesn't mean it isn't valid evidence, even if you consider it hearsay or whatever.
Learn to love Alaska
If online gambling were illegal in the US, then Antigua would have lost the court case. Since online gambling is allowed, the WTO ruled (correctly) that blocking Antigua gambling was protectionism.
If alcohol is illegal in a country (which is very common in Muslim countries), then the WTO will rule against the alcohol distributor.
Basically, the WTO legal stance (which the US agreed to) is there must be a level playing field. You can not implement protectionist laws such has high tarrifs for imports and subsidies for domestic.
-- Will program for bandwidth
The analogy is flawed because the US is a patchwork of independent jurisdictions each with their own laws and hangups.
I guess I was under a mistaken impression that federal law was to be applied in FL the same in TN.
Learn to love Alaska
have any evidence of that, idiot?
if anything, it's the reverse: at the present rate of incarceration, every US citizen will be a convict by 2076, which is basically how Australia started out
how many pairs of boxer shorts should you own?
have any evidence of that, idiot?
He's right. Maybe the majority of Ozzies doesn't, but the Ozzie politicians want to be just like US, mostly the bad part. And, if Ozzies do nothing about, it is the politicians that matter.
* Remember David Hicks? Schapelle Corby had more support from the Howard govt then him. ... would they be right, who's ass Australia is most likely to kiss?
* Remember Gillard's reaction to Assange's Cablegate? Mastercard used it as a pretext for cutting the transfer of donations to Wikileaks.
* Have you heard of serious "cyber terror" threats in Australia? Gillard says you should be very afraid of it, give away some of you rights and have that "cyber security centre" operational (doesn't matter that the budget for the centre may or may not exists, Roxon - the AG - just can't wait to use the "scare" to push some laws)
* Wonder how the Australia's seat on UN Security Council is seen by its major trading partner, the one that kept Australia sheltered from GFC? Potential sycophancy
Questions raise, answers kill. Raise questions to stay alive.
Apparently, at least in this case, you have absolutely nothing against vice, as long as the resulting profit goes to US companies.
That's too funny. USians use the WTO to try and fuck over other countries all the time, then ignore the WTO everytime it does something illegal, like stealing canadian lumber.
Don't complain about syntax, grammar, or spelling. There is no.hell like input on android.
Exactly, this shit happens. And what will happen in this case is that Antigua will start selling some cheap Hollywood films. And why not? They're a sovereign country. Now the US government can use some of that gambling tax money to compensate the content producers.
The fact that the US authorizes gambling in the US is not germane.
The US Authorizes the sale of Cigarettes in the US too. Doesn't mean you can start mail ordering them over the internet.
You conveniently seem to forget that Gambling EVERYWHERE in the US is regulated by the US, Various States, and Various Tribes under the BIA/OIG.
And as such there is some measure of control and taxation, and control of the odds, inspection of hardware, etc.
Antigua does not allow control or regulation by US authorities. Antigua want's to do business in the US, but ignore US law.
Why is that so hard for you to understand?
Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
Have you read the fine print?
Need Mercedes parts ?
What do we do? We send the Marines!
For might makes right,
And till they've seen the light,
They've got to be protected,
All their rights respected,
'Till somebody we like can be elected.
Have gnu, will travel.
So that would be... basically, Israel. (Recipient of 25% of the total US foreign aid budget, and the only long-term beneficiary over that timescale.)
The other big recipent over the long term is their neighbor Egypt, though since that was mostly to prop up the Mabarak regime, there may not be so much love.
According the Wikipedia, other top-5 US "aid" recipients include Iraq and Afghanistan. I do not see others queuing up to join the list.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_foreign_aid#Recipients
It's AUSSIE!!! Aussie, Aussie, Aussie! :D We don't go around biting off bat heads you dingo!
but the Ozzie politicians want to be just like US, mostly the bad part.
Nah, they just want to kiss arse, be photographed with Obama and Hillary, and get invited to cool parties.
Much as we take an interest in copyright law here, its really a minor issue in the scheme of things, and one of the few ways Australia is really following the US policies.
People here love the US, or at least the Hollywood version of the US, where everybody is beautiful and lives in a big house. Our kids mimic US fashions, but it is mostly superficial. We love McDonalds, but not Starbucks (they failed here).
> They will feign a slight interest in morality/safety when it makes them money...try to drive down the block with no seat belt...
Actually there ARE certain legal exceptions: Persons with certified phobia of seat belts; occupant of a motor home, other than the front seat passengers ; children under the age of twelve riding in the bed or cargo area of a truck if an adult is present and is supervising the child, etc.
My brother actually went to court over this. The judge recognized the bottom line was: Are the existing exemptions of a higher order than a constitutional right?
Initially he lost, but appealed to the Superior Court: "Public Safety is not applicable to the wearing of a seat belt because there is not one case where not wearing a seat belt has presented a danger to the people"
The Judge dismissed the case. :-)
Usually you are correct though -- tou know the golden rule -- he who has the gold makes the rules!
--
Only cowards use censorship
When you actually talk to the people there, like myself, you find NO ONE wants to be like the US. It's just that we're all too lazy and pissed (as in beer) to bother with politics. It's the laid back Aussie style "who gives a shit mate", it's what happens when you make it illegal to not vote, people who wouldn't vote still don't put any thought or concern into it.
Antigua is being taken for a ride just like they were by Stanford. They are following the stupid advice of this lawyer and paying him millions and in then end it's going to do nothing but cost them more.
Out here in the real world it doesn't matter than the WTO allowed this. The fact is that the US can take sovereign action against Antigua even if it violates WTO rules. Antigua only recourse is another WTO hearing and sanction at which point the US enacts more measures.
In the end Antigua will suffer more than they can inflict damage. It would be trivial for the US to bar all US citizens from spending money in Antigua and overnight their economy would collapse as nearly 90% of their tourism is from Americans.
They are being taken in by another Sanford and he'll make millions and sell them down the river.
The WTO Agreement is a treaty. This is what our constitution says about our treaty obligations. "This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding."
So a treaty obligation such adhering to WTO decisions has the equal weight to the Constitution of the United States.
"GET / HTTP/1.0" 200 51230 "-" "Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; Setec Astronomy)"
And $21M is but a drop in the water for the US entertainment industry
Serious question, what exactly does the $21M represent?
Is the $21M the total ammount that the antiguans can charge for copied content? or is it the ammount the US media companies would have charged for equivilent content?
Which one it is seriously changes how much pain they can inflict on the US entertainment industry.
note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
You kidding me? Even Israel hates us, and they get about 30% of every foreign aid dollar out there. Look at how many times we bust Israeli spies and send them home again.
Understanding the scope of the problem is the first step on the path to true panic.
Starbucks did not fail. I'm an Australian who lives in the US, and it's amazing to me just how similar Australia is to the US, with many Aussies badmouthing the US and thinking they are still culturally closer to the UK.
If you ignore ACs because they are anonymous - you're an idiot.
Please don't further use the term USian. It's...idiotic. It solves a problem that doesn't exist and only has disadvantages, not disadvantages. Please, stick with the standard 'American'. It makes things simpler for all. Thanks.
If you ignore ACs because they are anonymous - you're an idiot.
Then why do the politicians do it? There must be someone who wants it, or have the US corporations bought Australia politics so that it looks like what Australia wants, but isn't?
Learn to love Alaska
They're not gonna whack out US prisoners. Too many 3rd party corporations make too much money 'behind the walls' using prisoners as slave labor. Expect that to continue for the mid to long term, especially if our economy keeps tanked due to all the offshoring.
Understanding the scope of the problem is the first step on the path to true panic.
The US Authorizes the sale of Cigarettes in the US too. Doesn't mean you can start mail ordering them over the internet.
But with gambling, that's what is happening. The US tobacco companies can sell over the Internet, but the Antiguan ones cannot. That's an illegal violation of a treaty.
Antigua does not allow control or regulation by US authorities. Antigua want's to do business in the US, but ignore US law.
Why is that so hard for you to understand?
So if Antigua decides to abolish copyright, but only ones held by US companies, why should the US complain what Antigua does in Antigua with Antiguan law?
Learn to love Alaska
I seem to remember some former rebel colonies doing the same thing in their history.
That was long ago, in a galaxy far, far away. Or was that a Fairlane? Those classic Fords trip me up sometimes. Anyways, that was then, this is now, and the former pirates in the US are now the ones screaming for blood.
Understanding the scope of the problem is the first step on the path to true panic.
very soon. Get ready.
They may even have weapons of mass destruction. I can see mushroom clouds.
In the first paragraph this quote says:
either deliberately misleading or is just plain stupid by saying that IP violation is theft. It is not. Theft is a criminal offense, IP violation is a civil one.
I take it you haven't read the No Electronic Theft Act? (Yes, Theft is right there in the title). IP violation can be a criminal offense in the US
But the Antiguans also belong to North America (via the Carribean/West Indies), so aren't they Americans too...?
Israel?
Oi! Oi! Oi!
I only had temporary residency, but I lived there for years... my kid was born there, actually. I saw what he was talking about with the whole "wanting to be like America" thing. I mostly saw it in the rhetoric used by the folks who wanted Australia to change from a constitutional monarchy to a republic, which was pretty commonplace when I was there.
As a Canadian, I like the connection we have to Australia through being in the Commonwealth, and never saw why so many of you guys got bent out of shape over what is really just a figurehead...
-1 Uncomfortable Truth
But the FEDERAL law specifically is in play.
And even if it weren't, the internal organisation of a nation is not a matter of concern to other nations under treaty law.
An analogy would be if one corporation (A) were unable to meet its contractual obligations to another party (B) because of conflict between internal divisions of company A. That's a problem for A (it will be in breach), but it isn't really any of B's damn business.
Better to be despised for too anxious apprehensions, than ruined by too confident a security. --Edmund Burke
So it is your position that it is a basic human right that one may profit from another's work, leaving the other with no chance to profit themselves, while not compensating that other in any way?
killer.
give me your shit. all of your shit.
tell me that it's different because with electronic files you're not depriving anyone of something after you take it. tell me. tell me after you create something, it is taken by another, they undercut you, they fail to compensate you, and you are left with literally fucking nothing to show for the work that you did because some jackass stole it from you.
This isn't personal file-copying, this isn't personal use bullshit. That I'm really OK with. This is different.
... still waiting for this free-as-in-beer free beer I keep hearing about.
Antigua want's to do business in the US, but ignore US law.
No Antigua wants to let US residents to business in Antigua. Modern technology lets them do this without physically having to go there so the US passed a law which restricted trade with Antigua i.e. prevented its citizens from contacting Antigua and doing business there instead forcing them to do it in the US.
It's no different than say the EU passing a law to make it illegal for EU companies to purchase software written in the US because the US company that wrote the software did not allow control or regulation by EU authorities despite it being physically located in the US. The EU could certainly do this but it would be a clear violation of its promise to keep its markets open to US trade - it would be effectively implementing a significant trade barrier.
The constitution does not give foreign powers the right to override our own constitution. That would be totally stupid.
This is why reading is fundamental. Please stay in school.
Forgive me the colloquialism, but... LOL!
I was about to post the same thing. Thanks for covering it.
"GET / HTTP/1.0" 200 51230 "-" "Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; Setec Astronomy)"
No it gives the President with the approval of 2/3rds of the U.S. Senate the power to override our Constitution and the laws of the individual states. Article II section 2 of the US constitution defines the powers of the president and says "He shall have Power, by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, to make Treaties, provided two thirds of the Senators present concur."
"GET / HTTP/1.0" 200 51230 "-" "Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; Setec Astronomy)"
Actually google provides a much better definition...
So if we read the applicable term from the constitution,
"and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding"
This is what it would say written in modern English...
"The Constitution, the Laws of the United States, and our International Treaty Obligations are the supreme law of the land. Judges are required to honor our treaty obligations; in spite of anything the Constitution or laws of any state may say to the contrary."
"GET / HTTP/1.0" 200 51230 "-" "Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; Setec Astronomy)"
So are the purchasers still pirates? Just guaranteed (hopefully) a high quality, virus free experience?
I assume the US would still treat any of its citizens who purchase these as pirates, but what about Canada or the UK?
Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
So the US government is going to have a royal fit over people getting around copyright law by setting up shop in another sovereign country....
Just how long has the US government tolerated people getting around paying US Taxes by setting up shop in another sovereign country?
"Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]
Actual damages would be no greater than the expected wholesale price of a lawfully made copy, possibly less. I'm not aware of anything in the Berne Convention resembling the U.S. scheme of statutory damages for infringement of copyright in works whose copyright is registered with the Copyright Office, especially because Berne has no concept of copyright registration.
You could try an experiment. Get yourself a few wheelbarrows of cash money. Go downtown, and start handing out money to passerby. Rinse and repeat daily for a few years.
Come back one day, without your wheelbarrow, and see how many people are willing to buy your lunch for you.
Love? Yeah, right. Propping up a puppet in Egypt has charmed the Egyptian people, hasn't it? Current events in Egypt today seem to show that US aid is a factor in their politics, but it isn't a ruling factor. And, what the US wants Egypt to do isn't a factor at all, seems to me.
Some wise people have said that you can't buy love. If there is love for the US, I'd wager that it's found in our sister countries that were English colonies. Maybe France. Possibly some "like" in other nations, but not a lot of "love". Everyone, everywhere, loves our money, as long as it continues to flow. Even North Korea loves our money, and they'll take all that they can get, by whatever means that doesn't require them to bow down to our wishes. Ditto with Iran.
"Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
Of course it was due to America leaving the empire and not excepting any more convicts that created the need for a new penal colony.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
Nice Romantic Idea.
Now you just need to find on single square foot of planet Earth where this is true, move there, and be happy in your little prison away from the rest of us.
Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
Starbucks certainly *did* fail here in Melbourne, where coffee, and the artistic barrista, are revered. Starbucks coffee tasted like burnt seagull feathers and was roundly ignored by people who know better.
Do not mock my vision of impractical footwear
Australia led the world in hysteria over salvia.
I'll tell you,
I compose music. I take photos and videos.
NOBODY can steal my music or photos unless they break into my house and take all my copies so I no longer have them.
Do other people make copies of my music and photos and videos?
I have NO FUCKING IDEA, because I don't waste my time worrying about stopping people from doing something I have no moral right to stop them from doing.
I DO NOT OWN THE MUSIC I COMPOSE.
It's fucking NOTES in a particular sequence. I cannot OWN that any more than I can "own" a particular configuration of lego blocks.
The very idea is fucking idiotic.
This space available.
Yeah, "no one wants to be like the US", except for everybody. Seriously, what a backwards thing to say. Did you mean to say "nobody likes the US"? Because that statement could be defended; but just like everyone wants to be like the rich, successful douchebag who bangs all the hot chicks, everyone wants to be like the US -- even if we are douchebags.
we went to see the show, my objections notwithstanding
I still can't stop laughing with IceBike's "that would be stupid" and "please stay in school" statements... absolutely classic. Perfect example of how strong beliefs can alter one's perception of reality.
Because if there was a fight at the bar we all go to, we could be quite certain the Israelis and Brits would get beat up with us (and maybe even the Canadians and the Aussies). After that it gets pretty thin.
I don't think a friend who doesn't want to get into a fight that you drunkenly started is any less of a friend, they're just tired of putting up with your crap.
There are many more countries who would help us if our fight was remotely justified, France, Germany, etc. Compare the countries in Afghanistan to the countries in Iraq. Interestingly, Israel isn't on either list. I don't know why that is.
You seem to continue to side step the issue of the US having the right to control gambling within its borders.
You seem to be ignorant of the fact that the US agreed to abide by certain rules for governing international trade. The US eagerly signed the WTO treaty, a binding contract between nations defining the rules of international trade. The US broke the terms of the contract in order to protect it's domestic gambling industry, this disadvantages all other signatories to the treaty who offer international gambling (including the UK and other staunch allies). Antigua is the only one with the balls to pursue the issue with the umpire. The fact that the WTO agreed with them indicates the WTO is now more than just a lapdog of the US state department.
If the US regrets what it agreed to when it joined the WTO it can always do the honorable thing and pull out of the organisation (that it worked hard to establish). Instead they show themselves to be complete hypocrites by studiously ignoring adverse rulings and vigously enforcing benificial rulings.
And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
If you can't keep a promise because it confilcts with the constitution then don't make the promise in the first place, or withdraw from the club and retain your honour. Cherry-picking the umpire's decisions is at best hypocritical, at worst it fucks up the game for all players.
And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
Yes, in effect treaties are high priority laws in the US of A.
That is why any such foreign treaty has to be approved by the Senate and the President.
As a Canadian, I like the connection we have to Australia through being in the Commonwealth, and never saw why so many of you guys got bent out of shape over what is really just a figurehead...
Agreed. As a fellow Canadian, I don't see the point in introducing a political element (in the form of elections) for a figurehead head of state. It seems to me that Canada, for one, has a value-for-money arrangement: Although the Governor General's office uses millions of dollars, for functionaries, upkeep of grounds, security, etc., the GG himself gets only a modest salary -- it was around $120,000 the last I recall. In addition, we get to have a monarch on the cheap: the UK provides housing, upkeep, perks, etc., while we only have to provide security (and room and board, I guess) when one of the family drops by on an official visit -- which is not often. For this comparatively small sum, Canada gets a hardworking, apolitical individual, backed by serious constitutional legal minds for those infrequent times when use of real power is called for (i.e. on the advice of the prime minister, deciding whether to prorogue parliament or call an election.)
For similar reasons, Canada's judiciary is appointed, not elected: these guys are doing serious jobs which require them to be apolitical.
Yes we are!
GIBE MOAR GREEN CARDS!
Seriously, our hatred of the west ends immediately the moment an option for us to immigrate there becomes available. We are such hypocrites...
I am an ACCA student. Got a query on Accountancy/Finance? Maybe I can help!
The US copyright industry cannot stand for this - even if the damage is actually minimal, it'll further establish a culture of infringement that could destroy them in the long term. The obvious solution is for them to make another attempt at SOPA, this time by utilising their weasel powers to the fullest - expect it to be passed as a rider on an unrelated act, or introduced on a day when most of congress is busy with other matters. Then they can simply block the site at the border.
This whole thing might be just a bargining ploy, though. The US government owes them money, but has no incentive to pay, and doing so would be quite embarassing for a number of politicians who run with 'internet gambling ruins families' as part of their platform. Now Antigua has an 'or else' they can use to demand what they are owed.
Even according to the NET act, copyright infringement isn't theft. The term has just been misapplied to copyright infringement so many times that it has become - quite intentionally - a recognised label in common use even if not legally accurate.
That sentence is obviously talking about the supremacy over STATE constitutions, along with state laws. (Constitution or laws) X (of any state)...."Judges in every State".
Government-authorized piracy. Can we just stretch the language a little further and call it privateering?
You seem to think that Antigua can't set their copyright law within their borders. They can, and the only reason they don't is because of international treaties that have been shoved down their throat which threaten trade sanctions. Since the US doesn't want to respect those same kinds of treaties, Antigua is not going to respect them either.
If a nation decides they don't want to give authors handouts, that's their own damn business. That being thugs about has become the norm doesn't make it okay.
This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
If there exists an ambiguity, use US-American(s).
They are high priority, but that doesn't mean they can override the constituion. For example, the URAA including retroactively pulling works out of the public domain and was the implementation of an international treaty. Congress doesn't have the authority to pass such an act, even if it's part of a treaty. Treaties do no allow Congress to expand beyond their enumerated powers.
This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
If there was an industry trade group whose sole purpose was to lobby for legislation to prevent businesses from skipping their tax obligations, then it might be different.
Howdy howdy howdy
That's assuming that a payment processor won't arise to fit the needs of non-US business. US business is substantial, but as more and more value exists in non-US payment processing, someone will fill the gap since the rest of the world is still a big market.
This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
Don't blur contexts, please. American comes from United States of America, not North America. And, no, Caribbean != North America.
Howdy howdy howdy
Individuals only possess those rights which are expressly granted to them by their governing state. Those rights usually come with exceptions, too. That's how it works here in reality.
Howdy howdy howdy
So, what do you call all the americans who aren't in the US?
You're a temporary arrangement of matter sliding towards oblivion in a cold, uncaring universe
Wrong. "American" refers to anyone from the Americas, not someone from the United States of America.
You seem to continue to side step the issue of the US having the right to control gambling within its borders
No. The US is perfectly free to ban gambling. What they are not free to do, is permit gambling when run by companies in the US, but ban it when run by companies outside the US. That is no different from imposing a ban or levy on any other commodity when not produced domestically and places the US in violation of free trade treaties (which have, for the most part, been of significant net benefit to the USA). If another WTO member imposed an import tariff on some US commodity, then the US would complain to the WTO and expect a fine. Antigua complained to the WTO and a $21m/year fine was imposed on the USA unless they either ban gambling internally, or permit other companies from other countries to compete on an equal footing. They refused to pay, so the WTO authorised collection by other means.
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
we could be quite certain the Israelis and Brits would get beat up with us
You are joking right?
You do realise that in 2001, 75% of the British public did not want to be part of the Afghan war.
http://www.globalpolicy.org/component/content/article/154/26553.htm1
That 1 Million people (1 in 60 of the population of the country) went to London to protest against the 2003 invasion of Iraq.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/15_February_2003_anti-war_protest
That parliament only voted for war because Tony Blair (subsequently one of the most vilified prime ministers in modern times) outright lied to parliament.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodgey_Dossier
Sorry to bust your bubble.... but Britain & the rest of Europe isn't prepared to unilaterally support the US in war as you seem to believe. Thankfully, support for such wars is very much lacking by the majority of educated, intelligent Americans in your own country too.
Anyone quoted by a reporter knows how little they understand
Don't believe what you read is the truth.
Hmmm
All of the above may indeed be correct, however what the UK People support and what the Politicians approve are two entirely different things.
If I wrote a novel and Antigua started selling it, undercutting me and not compensating me in any way.. yes it would be just about time to grab your guns. This isn't about them being wronged, it's about them not respecting the sovereignty of another nation. They cannot dictate our laws, regardless of if those laws are dumb.
It is symptomatic of your post that in one and the same paragraph you 1) imply it would be right and just to invade another nation and 2) complain about people not respecting national sovereignty.
Cognitive dissonance much? :D
sigs are hazardous to your health
p>You seem to continue to side step the issue of the US having the right to control gambling within its borders.
You seem to continue to side step the issue of the US having agreed to offer equal treatment to overseas trading partners as to its own traders in certain areas.
Got them moderator blues I blieve I walk out the do', With these mod-points I been gettin', I 'most never post no mo'
As a Canadian, I like the connection we have to Australia through being in the Commonwealth, and never saw why so many of you guys got bent out of shape over what is really just a figurehead...
They've tried a few times and failed. There's no huge push for becoming a republic, the opinion polls are pretty even, and the last referendum was 55% against on all motions. Most people I know are pretty ambivalent about it, not really worried either way.
Me personally, I don't believe changing the status quo benefits anyone but the politicians. We have a historical connection to Britain. Our parliamentary and legal authority is vested in our own institutions. I'm somewhat wary of letting our pollies re-write and amend big chunks of our constitution to allow our head of state to use a different title on the departmental letterhead.
Fine. But then the US is still in breach of the treaty and owes compensation to the frozen-out treaty partners.
Got them moderator blues I blieve I walk out the do', With these mod-points I been gettin', I 'most never post no mo'
There is a lot of tight-assed squabbling in the comments about who is the holier.... But hell, any country leaning on the hells kitchen/ dogs breakfast which is current US copyright law gets my support. This whole lawyer sustaining, corporate-intellectual-property-is-US-property bullshit has to be stopped... So go Antigua - and thanks for soothing my inner anarchist...
Yes, the title of a bill is certainly indiciative of what it really does or means. The fact that 'theft' is in the title is, if anything, evidence that it's not theft because the titles of acts are generally political posturing that has nothing to do with the law itself. Copyright infringement is not theft technically, legally, or morally, and this isn't even copyright infringement since it's legal.
This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
so you're saying that antigua needs to follow state, tribal laws, even though it isn't in those states.
gambling institutions in one state don't need to follow laws from other states.
antigua can't be claimed to be subject to those laws,
yet the US wants to treat it as if it is subject to some vague agglomeration of them, without proving that jurisdiction.
if the US position was held up, then the WTO has no force whatsoever,
because any country can let it's provinces/states/kindergartens write their own local laws,
and then require foreign trade partners to follow each and every one of those laws, ignoring the details of actual jurisdiction.
if the US wants to institute nation-wide federal gambling laws, it can do so, and those apply to antigua.
unless it does so, the federal government cannot uniquely persecute antiguan business on the basis of no federal law, and in violation of WTO treaty.
what the fuck are you smoking that makes you think it's fraud? Fraud involves deception, so unless one party was confused about who or what they were dealing with, no fraud has occurred.
Also, nobody is 'receiving IP.' You receive a copy. 'Receiving IP' would be a transfer of a copyright, patent, or trademark.
This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
Antigua was owed an annual $21m in compensatory damages. If the US refused to pay, the WTO authorized Antigua to collect by other means, such as disregarding US copyrights to a value equal to the annual damages owed.
By MPAA/RIAA maths, that's probably 1 Katy Perry album and an episode of Lost.
(1.21 gigawatts) / (88 miles per hour) = 30 757 874 newtons
Oh, now I SO want an official Antiguan Letter of marque
Heck, I'll even pay for it.
People replying to my sig annoy me. That's why I change it all the time.
Look for upcoming Hollywood action movies to feature bad guys from Antigua now.
What, the US isn't America? Next thing you'll be telling me is that there are unamericans who have a brain!
Right, there's only the one meaning and Wikipedia doesn't need to have the following to go through the other uses: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_(disambiguation)/
You're a temporary arrangement of matter sliding towards oblivion in a cold, uncaring universe
The French actually have a love-hate relationship with the US. Even when Disney was trying to setup shop around Paris, there was an awful lot of people that complained about American influence in French culture.
Apparently, at least in this case, you have absolutely nothing against vice, as long as the resulting profit goes to US companies.
His point is that US is broken up into a lot of jurisdictions with their own laws. So it isn't quite as simple as gambling in the is legal but Antigua is being blocked to preserve US profits. In fairly large parts of the US gambling is actually illegal. So the US Government's beef is that online gambling sites pretty much defeat these local laws by making gambling available anywhere. You would think there would be a way to address the WTO objections by making it so that Antigua's gambling sites could operate anywhere in the US where gambling is actually legal. Anyway such a mechanism should allow Antigua a fair chance at the market while letting states have their laws. It would seem there should be some reasonable accommodation possible here. So far the US side isn't budging on making that accomodation so Antigua is playing the card of threatening US copyrights. Which is the only card the WTO handed them.
You assume WE love the US. The love is long gone, the "special relationship" only endures because we're afraid the US will find us even if we go to a Battered Countries refuge...
'Don't worry' said the trees when they saw the axe coming, 'The handle is one of us.'
That is exactly why we need USians, because USians immediately think that American refers to them, and them alone.
Granted there are a lot of cables going every which way over there. But a lot of the connectivity seems to go via British holdings up to Miami eventually. Or is Venezuela a connectivity powerhouse I didn't know about? I don't see them using their troposphere scattering to Europe but then again, maybe they will just run a shell game on mega? The links are:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECFS_(cable_system)
http://www.submarinecablemap.com/
http://www.indexmundi.com/antigua_and_barbuda/telephone_system.html
http://www.globalcaribbean.net/pages/en/network-system/route-description.php?lang=EN
That's the thing about courts - as arbiters of the law, they define it and may override it. It's that whole checks and balances thing...but on an international scale. It's not as if the IP players in the US are some insignificant party with no say in government affairs. Fuck, they practically write the laws our congress passes. The US may not give a shit about what the WTO rules, but if interests within the US do then things will happen.
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
"That's an illegal violation of a treaty."
I think violation implies something illegal by itself.
I don't think a friend who doesn't want to get into a fight that you drunkenly started is any less of a friend, they're just tired of putting up with your crap.
“When you're in jail, a good friend will be trying to bail you out. A best friend will be in the cell next to you saying, 'Damn, that was fun'.”
-- Attributed to Groucho Marx
To me this is the best defintion I've seen of the difference between the USA's relationship with the UK and its relationship with the rest of its supposed allies.
If they wanted to be like the US, they should ease up on all the gun restrictions in Oz then.....?
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
It surprised me when I learned that Federal law was different in different places. How it works is that the Circuit Courts make rulings on ambiguous parts of the law (and there are almost always ambiguities) and they aren't necessarily the same. Unless and until the Supreme Court rules or one or both Circuit Courts change their minds, the law is different.
I got this from a friend who worked in accounting for a large company, and complained about having to keep dual accounts, one by federal law in the circuit Florida is in, and one by federal law in the circuit Minnesota is in.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
I wouldn't say that treaties are equal in weight any more than laws are equal in weight (also mentioned in that clause). However, treaties clearly have the force of law which is the whole point.
In any case, the whole point of treaties is mutual agreement - it is bad policy to make a treaty and then violate it, because then nobody wants to make treaties with you. If you sign a bad treaty then announce your intent to back out and do so in some kind of reasonable way (giving up the benefits as well as the responsibilities) and it will probably be taken better than simply ignoring the bits you don't like.
Israel is not in Afghanistan or Iraq for fear that it will unite the Muslims in hatred and make it harder to control the population. Generic summary of Iraq & Israeli relations
Some people die at 25 and aren't buried until 75. -Benjamin Franklin
I lived in Central & South America for a while and often heard this claim. However, I would like to point out that the USA is the ONLY country with America in its name.
When someone calls themselves American, everyone knows which country they are referring to, although there may be grumbling at the gringo for being arrogant.
Some people die at 25 and aren't buried until 75. -Benjamin Franklin
Is there any US-loving country besides UK?
Saudi Arabia, and Canada. And Israel, New Zealand, Australia, Indonesia, Russia, China, Japan, ...
In other words, yes.
"Shootin' Ourselves In The Foot (TM) USA."
"Tongue tied and twisted, just an Earth bound misfit
Allow the US to screw them over as much as possible, because the US can possibly screw them over even more.
Under Hollywood Accounting rules, Antigua would need to set up a store that sells Imaginary Property (IP). Then they would need to set up several other organizations that bill the store various "fees". Until the store eventually turns a profit, that $21 Million that Antigua is owed cannot be repaid. I hope those "fees" won't get too high. I mean, it could take Billions of dollars in sales in order to eventually turn $21 Million in profit. Heck, the Star Wars movies from the 1970's still are not profitable!. So poor Antigua may never get the $21 Million that the WTO says it is owed.
I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
Responding to recent news, thousands of internet entrepreneurs have left the United States to start new businesses in Antigua.
No trees were killed to send this message, but a great number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
So you hate the government and its policies but you are too apathetic or demoralized to do anything about it. I understand. Hey, you know who you sound like? Us Americans. You people are just like us. :-)
As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
So the US government is going to have a royal fit over people getting around copyright law by setting up shop in another sovereign country....
Yes. Dependant upon who you are.
Just how long has the US government tolerated people getting around paying US Taxes by setting up shop in another sovereign country?
Forever, dependant upon who you are. If you're Google or Apple, the IRS doesn't appear to care that all your income goes through (eg.) Ireland.
You and me, on the other hand? We're one step out of jail for any unreported taxable penny.
I don't make the rules. I just stand around looking stunned trying to understand them.
"Tongue tied and twisted, just an Earth bound misfit
Aussie politicians sprout empty platitudes about the US because when push comes to shove, the US is our closest military ally and it's in both nations' interests to have close ties in that area. We tag along in every conflict the US is involved with not because we actually want to, but because a) it's a treaty obligation (ANZUS) and b) if we're ever threatened, we'll need the Americans to help us. Also, despite its current economic woes, the US is a very important trading partner and the single biggest source of external investment into the Australian economy.
However you'll note that no politicians here, regardless of where they sit in the political spectrum, actually entertain much in the way of US-like domestic policies (in pretty much any sphere you want to look at - social services, economic management, immigration policy, gun control, healthcare etc...US-like options aren't even on the table because no-one wants them). Once you get past some of the surface similarities, Americans are fundamentally quite different than the Australians.
Don't get me wrong - we like quite a bit about America and consume a lot of its media. It's a beautiful country with overall very friendly people (even if sometimes a bit clueless about the rest of the world), and a popular travel destination. But few of us have a desire to emulate it here. Australia as it is now consistently scores higher than the US on almost any quality-of-life-related index you can imagine.
Despite who you may have talked to while here, there's no serious push for a republic in Australia. It'd need at least double or triple the support it has now to actually pass a referedum (and has utterly zero chance of happening while Elizabeth II is still on the throne).
Like you, I like the bonds that tie us to Canada and the other Commonwealth nations, and actually think the constitutional monarchy (and the Westminster system more generally) we have is a very good system of government. On paper it may not be as directly democratic as a US-style republic ... but in practice it seems like the checks and balances we have, based partly in pure tradition, function more effectively than the black letter laws and constitutional rights enjoyed by the Americans.
Hear hear - there are many in Australia who completely agree with this (the majority, I would say). I don't think we'll be a republic for a very long time yet.
It pretty much did fail - they closed ~2/3rds of their locations and abandoned some cities altogether. Australia always had a deeper cafe culture than the US so there was simply too much good competition.
If the ban remains, Indonesia could impose retaliatory duties on the U.S. exports equal to the amount of trade it has lost, which one analyst estimated at about $16 million per year. The United States could also comply by offering Indonesia new trade concessions, as it has done in some other disputes where Congress was unwilling to change the law.
Maybe Indonesia could get with Antigua and they could pool their resources on this warez site.
You'd think that, but them so many here claim that "international law" can't trump domestic law because we are sovereign, so violating a treaty isn't "illegal".
Learn to love Alaska
The US does not BAN gambling. It regulates it, Taxes it, and restricts it to certain areas.
Antigua wants to avoid regulation, pay no taxes, and push gambling to areas where it is not allowed.
Why does Antigua get to ignore US laws? Would you be ok with the US companies choosing to ignore laws in other countries and do as they wish? (like Google for instance?)
Or would you be first in line to complain loudly?
I'm betting you'd the the loudest complainer.
Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
In fairness, the French complain about... pretty much everything.
Just another ignorant American.
we could be quite certain the Israelis and Brits would get beat up with us
You are joking right? You do realise that in 2001, 75% of the British public did not want to be part of the Afghan war. http://www.globalpolicy.org/component/content/article/154/26553.htm1
From your linked article:
The biggest poll of world opinion was carried out by Gallup International in 37 countries in late September (Gallup International 2001). It found that apart from the US, Israel and India a majority of people in every country surveyed preferred extradition and trial of suspects to a US attack.
This was what we wanted as well. Then the Taliban told us to go fuck ourselves. Then we blew the shit out of them. Every country in the world either got behind us or was at least smart enough to get out of the way of the injured, rabid, bulldog that Afghanistan had just poked with a stick.
I'm with you in that Iraq was unjustified and stupid and nobody had any business in that mess (least of all the U.S.), and you can argue that Afghanistan has been poorly managed, but that initial invasion was inevitable and pretty thoroughly justified.
To connect up with a more current possibility - if North Korea were to do something as thoroughly boneheaded as the launch and detonate a nuclear weapon at the western seaboard of the United States I am absolutely certain that Britain, Israel, and probably the majority of the free world would jump on board with an invasion. Heck, if NK was that utterly stupid, China would probably bitch slap them for it.
Horse racing. Did you do even basic research?
Whether or not we kick Israel to the curb, no Muslim nation is really in our Alliance for a coon's age.
What a short memory you have. GHWB invaded Kuwait to kick out the Iraqis/Sadaam Hussein. His son then spent a decade or thereabouts bankrupting you to finish the job. You've been pouring cash down the Saudi money hole seemingly forever. Indonesia warmly welcomes anything the USA wants to do to them. Afghanistan's Karzai is your puppet. Pakistan may hate your guts, but loves to service your every need anyway. Iran pre-Khomeini was a US puppet every bit as much as Iraq was.
Just wow.
"Tongue tied and twisted, just an Earth bound misfit
... it's what happens when you make it illegal to not vote ...
I've never understood that. I'd take that as licence to vote against incumbents at every opportunity. It seems odd that politicians would try to encourage that way of thinking.
On the other hand, that's what I do anyway, so maybe it's just me.
"Tongue tied and twisted, just an Earth bound misfit
... but just like everyone wants to be like the rich, successful douchebag who bangs all the hot chicks, everyone wants to be like the US -- even if we are douchebags.
Nope, you're wrong. There's lots that can be said for the US, but I couldn't stand sharing that country with most of you. You treat each other like !@#$ and your idiots are armed. There's lots of places on this planet where I'd rather be. The US is close to the bottom of my list.
"Tongue tied and twisted, just an Earth bound misfit
You almost translated it correctly.
Proper English interpretation would be
" in spite of anything the Constitution of any state, or the laws of any state, may say to the contrary".
The word Constitution in the quote referred to the STATE Constitutions, not the Federal Constitution.
It is clear the founders used this language to apply to STATE Constitutions, not the Federal Constitution.
There were several states that had created treaties with foreign powers as of the date the US Constitution was written,
and several states granted themselves the power to do this.
State-made pacts often conflicted with peace and trade treaties wanted by the Confederation
Congress for the benefit of all thirteen states, making it hard for Congress to consummate better
agreements with other nations. This also led to fierce contention between the states in their effort
to monopolize the import of goods from Europe and the Indian tribes.
The Confederation Congress, under the Articles of Confederation, frequently attempted to nullify state-made treaties in the state courts (there were no federal courts). But as might be expected, the state judges ruled inevitably in favor of their own states, pursuant to the state laws and constitutions.
This language in the Supremacy clause merely put the states on notice that the US Constitution would over-ride their
state constitutions with regard to international treaties.
During the ratifying debates, James Madison answered questions regarding the new national
charter and commented on the extent of the treaty-making power under Article VI:
“I do not conceive that power is given to the President and Senate to dismember the
empire, or to alienate any great, essential right. I do not think the whole legislative
authority have this power. The exercise of the power must be consistent with the object of
its delegation.”
Thomas Jefferson: “I say the same as to the opinion of those who consider the grant of treatymaking to be boundless. If it is, then we have no Constitution.”
Reid v. Covert, 354 U.S. 1 (1957), was a landmark United States Supreme Court case in which the Court once and for all ruled that the Constitution supersedes international treaties ratified by the United States Senate.
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Perhaps you should have stayed in school too. You seem to have a problem parsing the English language.
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At last, someone who can actually READ.
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Nope.
Nothing in the treated required signatories to re-write their fundamental charters of existence.
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The answer is simple, tax all online gambling, U.S. sites or international. 50% of the take would stop most online gambling in the U.S. If you are so hooked on the gambling "bug", then you must go to a physical gambling site, either a casino or your local 7-Eleven for lotto tickets or other forms of gambling. This would at least make it harder for the average person to gamble the family into the poorhouse. When I say "50% of the take" I mean the profit of those running the online sites, not the winnings of the poor schmucks who still believe they have a chance in hell of making it big gambling. Sure, sure, I know, the a-holes running the gambling sites would just lower the "chances" of winning, but, this might just be a good wake-up-call to those who aren't quite totally hooked on gambling to curtail their interests. I myself have done a little gambling at casinos and the odd lottery ticket or "scratcher", but, it didn't take me long to realize the incredibly long odds of ever coming out ahead or even breaking even. My advice is; take your gambling money and go do something fun like parachute from a plane, or some similar adrenaline producing event where you actually do see a profit for your hard-earned money!
My karma is bad. Don't get too close!!!
For this comparatively small sum, Canada gets a hardworking, apolitical individual, backed by serious constitutional legal minds for those infrequent times when use of real power is called for (i.e. on the advice of the prime minister, deciding whether to prorogue parliament or call an election.)
I just have to add (for the comic humour value) the CBC's paraphrasing of one of our recent GGs: "I'm Adrienne Clarkson, and you're not."
Arrogant, self absorbed witch. May she rot in hell alongside P. E. Trudeau (and David Suzuki) forever, soon. Those three deserve each other's company.
What a silly country this is.
"Tongue tied and twisted, just an Earth bound misfit
maybe all those who got free money from the US for the past 40 years?
Giving money to a possibly corrupt government is not the same as giving it to the ones that need aid. It only generates "love" in a very select few. Proof is that even in EU and LA there are large groups that don't think very highly of the US, even after inmmigrating there.
No. American 99% of the time refers to someone from the USA. If it is being used in the context of people from the two continents, context will make that apparent.
If you ignore ACs because they are anonymous - you're an idiot.
I'm not American. Just someone smart enough to see how stupid USian is.
If you ignore ACs because they are anonymous - you're an idiot.
Sigh. The people who always use the stupid term are always convinced it makes some kind of sense, and don't tend to listen to reason. I've lived in Canada, the USA, Nicaragua, Costa Rica and Colombia, in each place for at least 1 year. I am originally from Australia.
USian makes no sense. The USA is the only country with America in it's name. If you are referring to people from the two continents, context will make that apparent. Invent a new, lame, word to solve a non existent problem, is, to reiterate, idiotic.
If you ignore ACs because they are anonymous - you're an idiot.
A richer cafe culture? Australia is one of the leading consumers of fast food in the world.....
If you ignore ACs because they are anonymous - you're an idiot.
27 M dollars is hardly something worth alienating a nation for, and especially hardly worth the trouble of antagonizing WTO. US will probably lose probably a lot more than it would have by complying with WTO decision.
Laws say what they mean, If they meant State Constitutions they would have said state constitutions. Instead they said "the Constitution." What you said had merit only if they said "their Constitutions".
"GET / HTTP/1.0" 200 51230 "-" "Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; Setec Astronomy)"
Sorry son, you are just wrong. The supreme court settled this issue a long time ago.
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Huh? That may well be true but what's that got to do with anything? You go to a cafe when you want a coffee; you go to a fast food joint when you want a (fast, cheap) meal. Don't see that they are mutually exclusive.
You're missing the point. If you don't rewrite your fundamental charters of existence, and the treaty requires a fundamental rewrite of your charters of existence, then you are in breach of the treaty. If you are in breach of the treaty, you will have to make reparations, which either means a rewrite of your fundamental charters of existence or financial compensation.
The USA voluntarily agreed to sign the treaty -- no-one forced it to.
Got them moderator blues I blieve I walk out the do', With these mod-points I been gettin', I 'most never post no mo'
Would you be ok with the US companies choosing to ignore laws in other countries and do as they wish? (like Google for instance?)
A more accurate analogy would be if Google offered to obey the law in China, but instead China decided to block it entirely and only permit Baidu to operate, the WTO then required China to either permit Google to operate if they obeyed the law, and China kept the block.
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
I 'll stipulate these things: Kuwait, a Nation-state with abundant natural resources, was aided militarily by America (and others) because that much of the World's known petroleum reserves (at the time) could not be allowed into the hands of the boy from Tikrit. W was mad cuz the rackies tried to kill his Pa. The Saudis, well, you can always count on them to show up for a plane crash, but America is heavily involved there for much the same reason as Kuwait. The 'stan brothers tolerate American presence like Eastern European Countries used to tolerate the bear. Like a real friend, a real ally answers a phone call from you at two in the morning, even if they're pretty sure you're in the wrong.
Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.
Ernest Hemingway
OK, so it looks like there are several different and entirely valid ways of parsing this isolated sentence:
(A) ((any Thing in the Constitution) or (Laws of any State to the Contrary)) notwithstanding.
(B) ((any Thing in the Constitution) or (Laws of any State)) to the Contrary notwithstanding.
(C) (((any Thing in the Constitution) or (Laws)) of any State) to the Contrary notwithstanding.
(D) (any Thing in (the Constitution or Laws) of any State) to the Contrary notwithstanding.
(A) and (B) are pretty similar in meaning, but (C) and (D) are entirely different. In contemporary English, "or" commonly doesn't have a special precedence, and using this sentence to mean (C) or (D) would arguably be considered poor form (or actually, using the sentence at all would be poor form because it's terribly ambiguous). However, based on the historical context provided by the document you brought in, I have to concede that D must be the correct interpretation after all. But "staying in school" wouldn't tell you that, unless by "staying in school" you mean "specializing in the interpretation of historic documents".
Regarding your sig:
http://wikiislam.net/wiki/List_of_Fabricated_Hadith#The_ink_of_the_scholar_is_more_holy_than_the_blood_of_the_Martyr
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
And... it seems to be subject of debate even among people who did specialize in the interpretation of constitutional law: http://icon.oxfordjournals.org/content/10/1/242.abstract /. debate have asserted so far).
This is definitely a question far beyond the parsing the English language (as both sides in this
But to get back on subject: let's say the bottom line is that one sector of the US economy (the movies, music and software industry) will (allegedly) suffer because another sector (gambling - yes even if you consider it government-controlled, it's still a sector of the economy) successfully lobbied lawmakers into violating a WTO treaty. Greedy people doing stupid stuff.
In the original constitution, all reference to the Constitution itself were in the form "this Constitution" or " the Constitution of the United States". It wasn't referred to as "THE Constitution " until after it was ratified, where several amendments started to use that form. (Which is arguably more ambiguous, since each state also had constitutions.
The application of algebraic style parsing of sentences to writing is a relatively new concept, and doesn't reflect the rules of English prior to about 1900.
Any text book that explains the Constitution doesn't fall into this misunderstanding. This was first explained to me in the 9th grade. Hence the advice to stay in school.
Perhaps schools have slipped substantially since then.
Still, even the School of Google doesn't get the interpretation of the establishment Clause wrong.
There are only a few ways to amend the Constitution, and signing a treaty isn't one of them.
That fact alone should have been the tipoff.
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Regarding your sig:
http://wikiislam.net/wiki/List_of_Fabricated_Hadith#The_ink_of_the_scholar_is_more_holy_than_the_blood_of_the_Martyr
Well, damn. That's just sad. I really like that quote. It makes me think of how the Arabs used to be, building libraries and universities, saving all the ancient knowledge they'd accumulated over centuries while my ancestors were freezing in dirt floored huts, declaring science and philosophy a threat to their religion.
"Tongue tied and twisted, just an Earth bound misfit
I thought the same thing but it seemed a little too un-Muhammad-like so I had to look it up.
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
According to the NET act, copyright infringement is a criminal offense in some cases which is what I was replying to.
I'm not arguing whether or not it is theft, but the contents of the act do make it criminal which the parent argues otherwise. I was additionally simply pointing out that while he argues it is not Theft simply because it is not a criminal offense, the very bill that does make it a criminal offense contains Theft in the title
You're right there. The NET act makes copyright a criminal offence if done for profit, but defines that profit in such a broad manner that almost anything qualifies.
Not everyone has been schooled in the USA, you insensitive clod!
I'm glad you posted this. I certainly didn't mean to exclude other North Americans but in those contexts, they could probably also be referred to as something else (for instance, Canadian vs America or Chilean vs American). Call an American (from the US) a USian and you'll get a stupid look back.
Also, link fix: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_(disambiguation)
Howdy howdy howdy