RCMP Says Terror Plot Against Canadian Trains Thwarted

An anonymous reader writes "Two men were arrested in Canada, accused of conspiring to carry out an 'al-Qaeda supported' attack against a VIA passenger train in the Greater Toronto Area. The arrests were products of 'extensive' co-operation between Canadian and US intelligence agencies, who had been investigating the plot since August 2012." From this article, it's not clear whether any actual al-Qaeda support was forthcoming, or whether the accused plotters merely thought there was, by means of an FBI sting operation, as in the 2006 case in Florida.

Comments

it's official

[nopainogain]

Canada's cops are smarter than ours.

Re:it's official

[SlickUSA]

So what article did you actually read???

Re:it's official

[nopainogain]

doesn't matter. the media lies to us.

Re:it's official

[MightyYar]

This is aboot dignity! This is aboot justice!

Re:it's official

[Anonymous Coward]

It's "abowt", not "aboot".

Re:it's official

[Anonymous Coward]

You guys are dicks! Release Terrence and Phillip immediately!

Re:it's official

[Anonymous Coward]

You bombed our Baldwins, you bastards!!!! You even killed Daniel!!

Re:it's official

[Anonymous Coward]

You're welcome.

Re:it's official

[L4t3r4lu5]

Hahahaha, casual racism... *Wipes tear from eye*

Re:it's official

[centipedes.in.my.vag]

Captain Pedantic here, Anti-Canadian sentiment would be nationalist, not racist, as "Canadian" isn't a race. Excelsior!

Re:it's official

[MightyYar]

It's not racism, unless Canadians are a race. I was poking fun at the way some of them talk by paraphrasing South Park.

Re:it's official

[Anonymous Coward]

Everyone knows you can't be racist against white people.

Re:it's official

[Phrogman]

Americans seem completely unable to hear the difference between our pronunciation of "About" as /abawt/ and instead hear /abu:t/
I can't understand how someone can't hear the difference of course, being Canadian myself, but I see the stupid "Aboot" thing spouted so many times by Americans, I have to assume its true.

Re:it's official

[Talderas]

Don't forget about the traditional Royal Canadian wedding. It was such a shame that the traditional bowl of pudding was tipped.

Re:it's official

[Anonymous Coward]

It doesn't matter how they talk if you're too stupid to hear it correctly even when they talk perfectly.

Re:it's official

[Anonymous Coward]

There are no white people in Canada.

Re:it's official

[Anonymous Coward]

It's mostly a localized Maritimes pronounciation, but this is the accent most Americans who care about Canadians (read : Northeasterners) hear the most (roughly a 50/50 split with the god-awful "Tronno" torontonian speech).

Re:it's official

[L4t3r4lu5]

Quite so! I was poking fun at Americans by being ignorant.~

(I derped.)

Re:it's official

[Jeremiah Cornelius]

There is no "Al Qaeda".

Perhaps there once was. Maybe.

But now it's like watching guys in ball caps and saying they're members of the Yankees or Dodgers.

Re:it's official

[Udom]

This is about herding. Terrorist attacks are pretty common around the world but we only hear about those involving Muslims. Italy has suffered a long series of bombings by anarchists over the last decades, many of them mail bombs, but they don't make news in Canada and the US. Spain had bombings by ETA for decades with hundreds killed but they were ignored here. The IRA flubbed setting off another car bomb in Ireland a short time ago but it was ignored here. We are being herded to more and more fear and the goal is to strip us of more and more of our freedom.

Re:it's official

[MightyYar]

Since when are accents not funny?

Re:it's official

[Anonymous Coward]

I would so fork your repo! Have you seen my dongle?

Re:it's official

[kwbauer]

Because all those others are mostly internal with some outside support (think attempt to start civil war) whereas the Muslim ones are generally attacks from outside.

We can easily fool ourselves into believing that a bunch of communist ideologues born and raised in a country that get some funding (directly or indirectly) from the KGB were just "freedom fighters" trying to promote a better way of life in Western Europe (Red Army Faction, Action Directe, Badder-Meinhof, etc) or the US (Weather Underground, Black Panthers, etc.). Or even that they actually had some valid nationalistic points like the IRA and the Basques.

We generally have a more difficult time fooling ourselves about the Muslims coming over to kill us as simply trying to get us to leave them alone.

Re:it's official

[Anonymous Coward]

Well they do have that extra bone in their hands...

Also they keep their milk in bags. BAGS!

Re:it's official

[shutdown -p now]

Al Qaeda was always a highly decentralized organization with a great degree of autonomy for individual cells. It does not mean that it does not exist.

Re:it's official

[jeff13]

Yea, there was never an "Al Qaeda" as the media and government defines it - As a world-wide organization of Islamist terrorists. The CIA came up with the term to describe it's recruits, etc. (mostly from Saudi Arabia) in the Afghanistan war against the Soviet invasion.

Re:it's official

[Anonymous Coward]

Or you just don't get that it's not a 100% thing. Not everyone from the south sounds like Colonel Sanders, not everyone from New York talks like a cabbie. It's a joke. Get it? Humor? "Aboot" is a real thing, although I find "eh" more common.

Re:it's official

[Jeremiah Cornelius]

No. You are describing the Mossad sayanim.

Re:it's official

[shutdown -p now]

"No" what? Are you saying that the existence of one networked organizations precludes the existence of others? Or are you denying the existence of the networked organization known as al Qaeda in particular?

Re:it's official

[Jeremiah Cornelius]

Al Qaeda was an organization to funnel mujahedin into Afghanistan in the 80's-90's. No more. No less.

It was the database (In DBase or whatnot) of those that had pledged themselves. It went completely defunct with the invasion of Afghanistan, and has been kept alive as a political fiction - a boogieman - for purposes of domestic and international policy.

Any "terror organization" that accepts as "senior advisors" 25-year-old drop-out, death-metal fans - who also happen to be a grandson of an ADL founder? Get real. Fake. Fake. Fake.

It's a magnitude greater absurdity to imagine a link by salafi/wahabbist loonies with the Iranian Islamic Republic. That's like Westboro Baptist supporting the Pope. Again, possible only because of the fearful ignorance and gullibility of North Americans.

Re:it's official

[Jeremiah Cornelius]

"On the other hand I had someone do a Lexis-Nexis search that shows the term appearing first in late 1998 at the New York trial. Nothing before that. That would indicate that the term might have been invented there. The word Al Qaeda translates into "the base" which is a generic term and because of that this issue might never be completely resolved."
http://marc.perkel.com/archives/000753.html

Re:it's official

[Phrogman]

So is the differences in sounds distinguished by listeners. Its called "Canadian Rising" and is uncommon with US speakers unless they are near the border but common in Canada. Its what makes US speakers who do not hear the difference, think we are saying Aboot.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_raising

It's a great day for Dudley Doright!

[sribe]

I guess the new new prime minister let them have their horses back ;-)

Re:It's a great day for Dudley Doright!

[Anonymous Coward]

Um, Canada has had the same prime minister for over five years.

Re:It's a great day for Dudley Doright!

[Anonymous Coward]

He's newer than the last one?

Re:It's a great day for Dudley Doright!

[sribe]

Um, Canada has had the same prime minister for over five years.

Um, one assumes that on /. one can get away with South Park references ;-)

Learn and Burn

[Sponge Bath]

Enjoy the fruits of a civilized guest country then try to blow it up.

Re:Learn and Burn

[microbox]

Material success is proof that the infidel is soft, and (paradoxically) oppressing our glorious people! The best thing to do with this people is prove the vapidity of their narrative by treating them like criminals in a fair and transparent criminal justice system.

That title has quite a spin on it.

[patchouly]

The title fails to mention the fact that it was the Muslim community, up here, that turned the two guys in. Had nothing to do with the FBI. A few men, in the Mosque that they went to, heard about the plan and reported it to the RCMP.

Re:That title has quite a spin on it.

[Annirak]

That's not what it says. The article says this:

Toronto Imam Yusuf Badat, of the Islamic Foundation of Toronto, told CBC's Evan Solomon that RCMP officers said they received tips from the Muslim community that led to the arrests.

This is not the same as:

A few men, in the Mosque that they went to, heard about the plan and reported it to the RCMP.

Re:That title has quite a spin on it.

[tapspace]

I know this is /., but geez, split hairs much?

Re:That title has quite a spin on it.

[ILongForDarkness]

I don't get extremists maybe that is a good thing: but you have a couple nut jobs that want to blow stuff up ... okay. So why can't they keep their mouths shut until they do? I can see if they got caught trying to get supplies or someone to help them but running off their mouths about their plans is just silly. Good thing they do but just saying dumb as door knobs. I agree though the Muslim community deserves to share the credit for their help as they definitely (and wrongly) get their share of the blame every time a problem comes up involving a Muslim.

Also I agree RCMP != FBI though I guess I kind of get the mistake since the RCMP is often compared as the Canadian version of the FBI. It is quite different though in that a lot of rural areas have the RCMP as their primary law enforcement so they do have federal powers but sometimes are doing local policing too.

Re:That title has quite a spin on it.

[DNS-and-BIND]

Why would they betray their own community? It can't be out of loyalty to the government - the same government that is guilty of genocide against the First Peoples. Personal grudge perhaps? In a multicultural country, citizens define themselves by which groups they belong to.

Re:That title has quite a spin on it.

[squiggleslash]

OK, but the GP's explanation is certainly consistent with the article. You're not contradicting the GP, just explaining that the article itself doesn't go into detail.

Re:That title has quite a spin on it.

[ravenswood1000]

So why can't they keep their mouths shut until they do? I can see if they got caught trying to get supplies or someone to help them but running off their mouths about their plans is just silly..

For the same reason idiots post crimes they commit up on Facebook or Youtube.

Re:That title has quite a spin on it.

[plover]

Why would they betray their own community?

There was no "betrayal of their own community" here, unless their community is a community of violent bombers. This was some human beings who heard of some criminals discussing a plot, and not wanting other innocent humans to die as a result of their inaction.

Not every Muslim prays for "death to the infidels", not even if they attend the same mosque.

Re:That title has quite a spin on it.

[Annirak]

Maybe I'm being pedantic, but "tips" != "heard about the plan". I'm just asserting that the OP's statement makes the whole thing sound a lot more cloak & dagger than it likely was.

Re:That title has quite a spin on it.

[asylumx]

I think the point is that the source of info for the article was the Imam, not the RCMP. Without RCMP confirmation, you have no idea if those tips were useful, let alone instrumental.

It is entirely possible (though not likely, IMO) that the Imam just said that to garner a better public view of his community.

Re:That title has quite a spin on it.

[operagost]

Had nothing to do with the FBI.

"The investigation was part of a cross-border operation involving Canadian law enforcement agencies, the FBI and the U.S. Department of Homeland Security. The two men arrested are accused of plotting to attack a passenger train in the Toronto area. The two men arrested are accused of plotting to attack a passenger train in the Toronto area.
The arrests Monday morning were co-ordinated and executed by a special joint task force of RCMP and CSIS anti-terrorism units, combined with provincial and municipal police forces in Ontario and Quebec.
Public Safety Minister Vic Toews congratulated the RCMP, CSIS and local law enforcement and thanked the FBI for their assistance."

Re:That title has quite a spin on it.

[Anonymous Coward]

Why would they betray their own community? It can't be out of loyalty to the government - the same government that is guilty of genocide against the First Peoples. Personal grudge perhaps? In a multicultural country, citizens define themselves by which groups they belong to.

Because in reality, a "multicultural country" doesn't operate the way it's portrayed at Stormfront.

Re:That title has quite a spin on it.

[Richy_T]

Idiots. To be completely safe, I only post my crimes to myspace.

Re:That title has quite a spin on it.

[freezin fat guy]

The title fails to mention the fact that it was the Muslim community, up here, that turned the two guys in. Had nothing to do with the FBI. A few men, in the Mosque that they went to, heard about the plan and reported it to the RCMP.

Also not the first time the Canadian Muslim community has played a central role in preventing terror.

Re:That title has quite a spin on it.

[Anonymous Coward]

Because we may be multicultural, but one of the things binding Canadians together is an abhorance of violence as a means to cause change. That doesn't mean "loyalty to the government", it means loyalty to the principles that Canada represents. That doesn't mean we don't have problems or that our history isn't riddled with plenty of violence, but in modern times once you resort to violence all popular support for your cause pretty much evaporates. There are other ways.

It doesn't matter if you're "in the same community", once you go down that violent path you're going to get marginalized. Start trying to shoot people or blow them up, and even the people who support your cause will ostracise you. It was true during the FLQ crisis (why do you think we had 2 referenda? Because *violent* overthrow was rejected by the Quebecois), the Oka Crisis (Native peoples still aren't properly treated, but there's a recognition that protest needs to be non-violent to maintain popular support for change, hence the Idle No More protest), and then this event (whatever statement these terrorist nutbars wanted to make, being a part of the Muslim community didn't mean people there would condone violence).

People want action, and people get frustrated when change doesn't happen, but generally they want to talk their way through an argument because they still have to live with the other people even if change is successful. We've got a three-way shotgun marriage via a history that all of us today have to deal with: Native peoples, English, and French. We tried solving things the shooting way in the past. It was bad news. We've moved on to arguing in more civilized ways. Most people who immigrate here learn soon enough that is the Canadian way. It's often why people come here from other countries, so of course they want to preserve it. You can't *be* a successful multicultural society if communities within it aren't looking for the rare nutbars who want to do violence to any of us.

You think radicals like this care if they're killing Muslims or non-Muslims? Do you think they'd check the passenger lists carefully before blowing up a train? Ratting these terrorists out is not "betraying their own community", it's preserving it. "Oh Canada, we stand on guard for thee" and all that patriotic crap isn't just a motto. The whole point about terrorists is that they are enemies of *everybody*, your community included, the moment they decide to attack random innocent people.

Re:That title has quite a spin on it.

[Anonymous Coward]

That's MUSLIM talk. I'm reporting you to the FBI.

Re:That title has quite a spin on it.

[dkleinsc]

Not every Muslim prays for "death to the infidels", not even if they attend the same mosque.

In fact, we can make this statement much stronger: There are about 1.2 billion Muslims in the world. There are estimated to be no more than about 10,000 Muslim terrorists in the world. So what you can actually say is that about 99.9% of Muslims do not in any way support terrorism (assuming that for every terrorist there about 1000 other people that support their actions). The Al Qaida types are a tiny minority.

To be clear, I'm talking about those that blow up civilians, not those that support what they see as wars against dictators and other oppressive powers, such as the people supporting the Syrian rebellion.

Re:That title has quite a spin on it.

[tnk1]

Conspiracies are *very* difficult to do well, that's why they usually fail. Think about your group of friends, they may well believe that what you are saying is right and good, but once you go over the line, there is no way they are going to follow you over it, and they'll turn you in without you even realizing it.

When you are doing certain things, you're not even going to be able to trust your family and closest friends. Chances are, while some of them will not want to get you in trouble, they're probably not sociopaths and will eventually see what is happening and try to put a stop to it.

And it's not a simple matter of keeping your mouth shut: it is difficult to be a lone wolf attacker and most of them have some sort of support to get them the materials and skills they need to carry out attacks. That's why al-Queda does a lot of work to disseminate terrorism how-tos on the Internet, but of course, if you have those materials or access them, you could be tracked.

Re:That title has quite a spin on it.

[BubbaDave]

Not every Muslim prays for "death to the infidels", not even if they attend the same mosque.

In fact, we can make this statement much stronger: There are about 1.2 billion Muslims in the world. There are estimated to be no more than about 10,000 Muslim terrorists in the world. So what you can actually say is that about 99.9% of Muslims do not in any way support terrorism (assuming that for every terrorist there about 1000 other people that support their actions). The Al Qaida types are a tiny minority.

To be clear, I'm talking about those that blow up civilians, not those that support what they see as wars against dictators and other oppressive powers, such as the people supporting the Syrian rebellion.

Typical American: "OK, so there are 1.2 billion - 10,000 potential mooslim terrists, OMG, how many do we have to bomb so none of them decide to become terrists*?"

* In a country we care about

Re:That title has quite a spin on it.

[Antipater]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/04/23/canada-arrests-idUSL6N0DA14O20130423 Reuters has the police confirming that there was a tip from the Muslim community.

Police gave little detail about the alleged plotters, but said a tip from the Muslim community had helped their year-long investigation.

Re:That title has quite a spin on it.

[Anonymous Coward]

That's not what it says. The article says this:

Toronto Imam Yusuf Badat, of the Islamic Foundation of Toronto, told CBC's Evan Solomon that RCMP officers said they received tips from the Muslim community that led to the arrests.

This is not the same as:

A few men, in the Mosque that they went to, heard about the plan and reported it to the RCMP.

We have enough assholes on the internet as it is, we don't need anymore.

I bet youre the kind of guy that if someone said "I drove through mcdonalds and got a burger" you would say "No you didn't. Youre wrong, you cant drive through mcdonalds that would mean you drove through the walls and you didn't get a burger, you got a big mac which is not just a burger".

He was paraphrasing but he still made the exact same damned point and said the exact same thing. FBI received a tip or some guys at a mosque heard what was going on and tipped off authorities, its the same god damned thing.

Re:That title has quite a spin on it.

[the eric conspiracy]

> in that a lot of rural areas have the RCMP as their primary law enforcement

So basically that's everything not within 20 miles of the border?

Re:That title has quite a spin on it.

[Jiro]

Your number 1000 is pulled out of thin air. Countries are big places, and a heck of a lot more than 1000 people support each terrorist. If you assume that 10% of the population of Afghanistan supports terrorism, that's already 3 million people which is a lot more than a ratio of 1000 to 1 just from that one country.

Re:That title has quite a spin on it.

[Jmc23]

Which really probably just means the RCMP called up the FBI and asked "ever hear of these guys?". We tend not to keep huge databases on everybody like the police state south of us.

Re:That title has quite a spin on it.

[CanadianMacFan]

Ha, ha. Funny.

We use kilometres up here.

Re:That title has quite a spin on it.

[west]

> Why would they betray their own community?

I think you've got it the wrong way around. The would-be terrorists are betraying the Muslim community in every possible way.

I'm certain that the immigrant communities understand that the extremists would be overjoyed to see them sacrificed to angry mobs in order to further the their agenda. There's not a lot of love lost between these groups.

(Of course, you're always going to be able to find some angry young men ready to sacrifice everything and everybody to their rage. But the community at large? No.)

Re:That title has quite a spin on it.

[Anonymous Coward]

> We use kilometres up here.

Then howcum Air Canada gave me Aeroplan Miles when I bought a ticket?

Re:That title has quite a spin on it.

[ILongForDarkness]

Mah closer to 200. There is rural and then there is Canada rural. My understanding is that northern territories and north part of BC is largely RCMP territory. There are low population areas of Ontario that are ~500mi from the border but as far as I know they still have regional/provincal police. Basically it is up to the province whether or not they end up policing themselves or contracting RCMP do it for them. Probably not a bad thing but I'm not really sure why contracting was an option: local policing is a local issue and protection of the people is the reason for a government monopoly of force so you'd think that the level of policing would match the level of government controlling the territory but ... mah.

Re:That title has quite a spin on it.

[gl4ss]

That's not what it says. The article says this:

Toronto Imam Yusuf Badat, of the Islamic Foundation of Toronto, told CBC's Evan Solomon that RCMP officers said they received tips from the Muslim community that led to the arrests.

This is not the same as:

A few men, in the Mosque that they went to, heard about the plan and reported it to the RCMP.

yeah the other one is more exact. the first quote can be true while the second is true. because people in the mosque are part of the muslim community...

Re:That title has quite a spin on it.

[gl4ss]

Maybe I'm being pedantic, but "tips" != "heard about the plan". I'm just asserting that the OP's statement makes the whole thing sound a lot more cloak & dagger than it likely was.

well, if they heard about it and called 'em up then they were giving a tip when they were reporting them.

Re:That title has quite a spin on it.

[microbox]

Miles make better ad jingles?

Re:That title has quite a spin on it.

[ceoyoyo]

Those "miles" aren't like any miles you've ever heard of.

Re:That title has quite a spin on it.

[ceoyoyo]

Policing in Canada is a provincial responsibility but except for Quebec, Ontario and Newfoundland and Labrador, the provinces contract provincial policing to the RCMP. Major cities within provinces often have their own police forces.

The system works quite well. Places that are big enough to maintain and properly train police forces have them, but everywhere else uses provincially or nationally maintained forces. That way you don't have to worry about how well Joe the Sheriff in Backwoods Nowhere does his job.

Re:That title has quite a spin on it.

[ceoyoyo]

What a stupid post. The Harper government has done some things I disagree with, but it hasn't committed genocide. As for the rest, you don't betray your community, your neighbours or your country by turning in violent criminals.

Re:That title has quite a spin on it.

[cellocgw]

In fact, we can make this statement much stronger: There are about 1.2 billion Muslims in the world. There are estimated to be no more than about 10,000 Muslim terrorists in the world. So what you can actually say is that about 99.9% of Muslims do not in any way support terrorism (assuming that for every terrorist there about 1000 other people that support their actions).

Whether or not that's accurate, you're limiting "terrorist" to those who go off and blow things up. If you add in the Muslims who practice genital cutting and honor killing as a matter of course, the percentage of, if not terrorist, brutal abusive misogynist nutcases goes up rather dramatically. Like 100% of the Pashtun to begin with.

Re:That title has quite a spin on it.

[dkleinsc]

Yes, I'm limiting "terrorist" to those who commit acts of terrorism. Genital cutting and honor killing are abhorrent (at least to me), but aren't acts of terrorism. My suspicion is that you're using the word "terrorism" to mean "things Muslims do that Westerners don't like", which isn't supposed to be an accurate definition, and is certainly not scientific.

Re:That title has quite a spin on it.

[cellocgw]

If you really think honor killings aren't terrorism, you need to talk to a couple females. If you can find any.

Re:That title has quite a spin on it.

[Anonymous Coward]

Which really probably just means the RCMP called up the FBI and asked "ever hear of these guys?". We tend not to keep huge databases on everybody like the police state south of us.

LOL. ROFLMAO! Wait, are you serious? I would not be doing the job I have right now if that was true. I am posting anonymously for a reason. I have been doing this job for over a decade and a half.

Re:That title has quite a spin on it.

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't get extremists maybe that is a good thing: but you have a couple nut jobs that want to blow stuff up ... okay.

Well, frankly, for an engineer & grad student, this plot is pretty lame. Most intelligent people can come up with something more effective.

So why can't they keep their mouths shut until they do?

Fortunately for us, most criminals aren't very bright, and they like to talk.

Re:That title has quite a spin on it.

[Anonymous Coward]

> so they do have federal powers but sometimes are doing local policing too.

Bad Canadian (assuming that you are one). Most laws in Canada are federal.

The reason that the US has that local/state/federal distinction is because most laws in the US are per state (yes, every single state makes it's own definition of "murder", whereas Canada has one.)

Re:That title has quite a spin on it.

[ILongForDarkness]

Laws are federal but law enforcement is constitutionally a provincial matter.

Re:That title has quite a spin on it.

[Anonymous Coward]

Not every Muslim prays for "death to the infidels", not even if they attend the same mosque.

True, the vast majority do not.

But a disproportionate number of Muslims pray for "death to the infidels" compared to other religions.

And a disproportionate number of Muslims try to carry out "death to the infidels" compared to other religions.

Re:That title has quite a spin on it.

[Anonymous Coward]

one of the things binding Canadians together is an abhorance of violence as a means to cause change.

The other things that bind us together are:

- hatred of Toronto
- hatred of weak American beer
- gleefully saying, "We're not American!" at every opportunity

Re:That title has quite a spin on it.

[kwbauer]

Unless they want to own one or more of those evil gun thingamobobs. I'm sure you have some others as well.

Re:That title has quite a spin on it.

[Anonymous Coward]

> about 99.9% of Muslims do not in any way support terrorism

Bull. Such figures often repeated by the useful idiots, but actually asking muslims about it gives a very different picture.

In France, 16% of polled muslims say they consider suicide bombing to be sometimes acceptable, 19% say rarely, 65% say never (pewglobal.org). Globally about a third of muslims accept suicide bombing - varying from 7% (Uzbekistan) to 75% (Lebanon) (Pew Poll 2002). "Do muslims in your country support al-Qaida": Great Britain 12%, France 9%, Germany 12%, Spain 14, Nigeria 56%. 36% of British muslims between 16-24 years of age support death penalty for apostasy, and 37% want Britain to fall under sharia law. "Do you want a strict sharia law in your country": Pakistan 79%, Morocco 76%, Egypt 74%, Indonesia 53%. Etc etc, read the polls for more of the same. In all of these polls the most strictly islamic countries are not represented, as it is dangerous to conduct such polls there.

It's not 0,1% of muslims who support violence and terrorism. Depending on the exact question you ask, positive responses are around 5%-25% in western countries and 50% in islamic countries.

http://people-press.org/report/165/what-the-world-thinks-in-2002
http://www.danielpipes.org/3706/pew-poll-on-how-muslims-think
et al.

Re:That title has quite a spin on it.

[dwpro]

To be clear, your numbers so off, they are not even wrong.

http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/pdf/feb09/STARTII_Feb09_rpt.pdf

This report states that roughly 8.5% of Muslims explicitly endorse attacks on American civilians in the US, and another ~10% have mixed feelings.

Re:That title has quite a spin on it.

[CrimsonAvenger]

When you are doing certain things, you're not even going to be able to trust your family and closest friends.

The old quotation "Three men can keep a secret if two of them are dead" comes to mind....

Re:That title has quite a spin on it.

[Anonymous Coward]

Nevermind that. It also fails to mention what the fuck is RCMP. Red meat chilli peppers?

Re:That title has quite a spin on it.

[Anonymous Coward]

10,000.. and yet somehow there are more than 10,000 Muslim terrorist attacks every year.

WEIRD.

Gotta love internet liars.

Re:That title has quite a spin on it.

[Jmc23]

Not anymore, did away with the gun registry in 2012. We do keep tax records though.

Re:That title has quite a spin on it.

[NewYork]

The Arabic countries led by the Muslims were the most advanced scientists and engineers in the world, until they let the religious crazies take over.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_science_and_engineering_in_the_Islamic_world

Re:That title has quite a spin on it.

[Mashiki]

That way you don't have to worry about how well Joe the Sheriff in Backwoods Nowhere does his job.

Except that's exactly what happens up here in Canada. In cases of the provincial police or even the RCMP, if you're on what they call "remote detachment" your office is your house, jail, and sometimes also the hospital and doctors office. You start getting oh 300km or so north outside of southern ontario and that's how it rolls.

And a lot of provinces are questioning having the RCMP as a provincial police, especially with the mass number of screw-ups, never mind that provincial police aren't the best option in many cases either. A small town near me has a OPP detachment, it's very rare that those officers are even in town. Rather they're deployed elsewhere by the main office for the region.

Re:That title has quite a spin on it.

[ceoyoyo]

"Except that's exactly what happens up here in Canada."

RCMP officers are rotated every few years, and all receive the same basic training, in the same place.

Also, your description of working conditions sounds like southern Ontario fantasy. I can assure you that in my home town, about 1400 km north of the latitude of Toronto, there was a regular RCMP station, completely separate hospital, and nobody resides at either one. Okay, technically the hospital has several residents since it merged with the long term care facility, but no cops live there. Actually, Sudbury and Quebec City, are more than 300 km north of Toronto (not sure where your definition of "southern Ontario" ends) and Winnipeg, Regina, Saskatoon, Calgary, Edmonton, Vancouver, and Victoria are all 300 or more km north of Sudbury. I've been to all those cities. They definitely have dedicated police stations. And hospitals.

Re:That title has quite a spin on it.

[Uberbah]

This report states that roughly 8.5% of Muslims explicitly endorse attacks on American civilians in the US, and another ~10% have mixed feelings.

So "feelings" are the same thing as actions? No doubt you support drone bombing the shit out of rural Pakistan - does that mean there's no difference between you and the guy pulling the trigger, and the men in charge of the trigger-pullers?

Moran.

Re:That title has quite a spin on it.

[Uberbah]

If you add in the Muslims who practice genital cutting

If you do that, you have to include most Jews and half of Genteels on your list of "terrorists". Before anyone gets butthurt over calling circumcision MGM, only a minority of FGM involves the removal of the clitoris or sewing up the vagina like a turkey - which is indeed worse than circumcision. Type IA and IIA of female genital cutting involves trimming away some of the outer labia or clitoral hood - which is of course directly analogous to male circumcision.

If you really think honor killings aren't terrorism, you need to talk to a couple females. If you can find any.

Females are the ones who usually turn in the females for "honor killings". For some reason, that part of the storyline is always left out. Just like it is with FGM, which is performed by...females:

Sheelan Anwar Omer, a shy 7-year-old Kurdish girl, bounded into her neighbor's house with an ear-to-ear smile, looking for the party her mother had promised.

        There was no celebration. Instead, a local woman quickly locked a rusty red door behind Sheelan, who looked bewildered when her mother ordered the girl to remove her underpants. Sheelan began to whimper, then tremble, while the women pushed apart her legs and a midwife raised a stainless-steel razor blade in the air. "I do this in the name of Allah!" she intoned.

        As the midwife sliced off part of Sheelan's genitals, the girl let out a high-pitched wail heard throughout the neighborhood. As she carried the sobbing child back home, Sheelan's mother smiled with pride.

Re:That title has quite a spin on it.

[dwpro]

Unless you are suggesting that public opinion does not matter and is not a form of support, your response is a complete non-sequitur. Fact is, public opinion does matter, and if the Islamic community wants to be taken seriously as a religion of peace, they oughtn't have such a sizable chunk of their constituents supporting violence against innocent civilians.

Despite the fact that I do _not_ support our drone attacks in Pakistan, it is not an equal comparison between drone strikes against suspected terrorists and killing civilians as the primary goal.

Re:That title has quite a spin on it.

[asylumx]

This is mentioned 4 posts up in the conversation. The OP for the thread is making claims that the statement you quoted does not directly support.

It was the most polite arrest ever

[TWiTfan]

Or at least, that's how I picture it in my head.

Re:It was the most polite arrest ever

[Anonymous Coward]

Sorry, we're going to have to arrest you. Sorry about ruining your plot.

Re: It was the most polite arrest ever

[jxander]

My first thought :
Who the hell tries to bomb Canada? A country stereotyped by polite apologies and maple syrup.

Of course, the thought that immediately followed :
Freaking South Park.

Re:It was the most polite arrest ever

[Anonymous Coward]

It went something like this...

Police: You are under arrest!
Bad Guy: NO
Police: We will take you on an AIRPLANE for a sightseeing tour.
Bad Guy: OK

Why take an airplane? I know the RCMP headquarters is in Newmarket. I guess they didn't want to drive him 3hrs in rush hour traffic.

Re: It was the most polite arrest ever

[TWiTfan]

It was probably someone looking to retaliate for Justin Bieber.

Re: It was the most polite arrest ever

[wonkey_monkey]

Or Bryan Adams. Although they have apologised for Bryan Adams on several occasions.

Re: It was the most polite arrest ever

[Mashiki]

Who the hell tries to bomb Canada? A country stereotyped by polite apologies and maple syrup.

Well that would be the same type of people as last time, and the time before that. Though not the same group as back in the 80's. The last dozen or so terrorist attempts have been attempted by "exceptionally devout muslims" back in the 80's we had two attempts by Sikh's, and back in the 60's and 70's it was the FLQ. Despite what people think Canadians have a very thin skin when it comes to terrorism.

Re:It was the most polite arrest ever

[Anonymous Coward]

Canadians really are polite and well behaved. When I was working in Ottawa a few years ago I was delighted to see lots of people thank driver for the ride when they got off the city buses. We don't have that where I come from. Oh, and when three Canadians walk side by side talking to each other and filling up the entire width of the sidewalk, and they meet a lone pedestrian coming the other way, one of them takes a step back behind his friends to make sure that there is space for passing them. That's unheard of in Stockholm, where the norm is to look up at you, then continue their conversation without yielding an inch, expecting you to jump out into the street.

Re: It was the most polite arrest ever

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't forget the Squamish Five: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squamish_Five

Think of the beavers!

[Anonymous Coward]

Thankfully no beavers were harmed in the arrest.

Re:Think of the beavers!

[Anonymous Coward]

CHICAGO—In what is being called the first conceptual terrorist attack on American soil, the landmark Sears Tower was encased in 18 million tons of strawberry gelatin early Monday morning, leaving thousands shocked, angry, and seriously confused.
The Sears Tower

Authorities called to the scene of the senseless attack said they could do little to control the large crowds of dangerously bewildered citizens, many of whom searched desperately for some semblance of meaning in what had just taken place. As of press time, 11 night security guards were still trapped inside the famous structure, their rescue unlikely until the Jell-O melts.

"My God, it's just awful," said commuter Nick Dawson, one of countless Chicago residents who struggled to comprehend what had occurred. "Why would anyone do something like this?"

Tentative speculation that the dessert enclosure was in fact an act of terrorism was quickly confirmed after a group known only as the Prophet's Collective took credit for the attack in a three-hour-long video that surfaced on the Internet.

"Your outdated ideas of what terrorism is have been challenged," an unidentified, disembodied voice announces following the video's first 45 minutes of random imagery set to minimalist techno music. "It is not your simple bourgeois notion of destructive explosions and weaponized biochemical agents. True terror lies in the futility of human existence."
The terrorists' video made their message clear.

According to a 2007 CIA executive summary, the terrorists responsible for masterminding the attack are likely hiding somewhere in Berlin's vast labyrinth of cafés. Though officials said they didn't know if any of those involved in carrying out the plot were still in Chicago, several dozen local performance artists and interpretive dancers have been brought in for questioning.

"We believe that this is the same group responsible for the 2005 Saran-wrapping of the American embassy in Paris," CIA director Michael Hayden said. "This is an extremely dangerous organization with absolutely no regard for American tastes and sensibilities. If left unchecked, it could forever change the face of contemporary terrorism."

Hayden said the CIA is working closely with the National Endowment for the Arts to cut off all grants that may serve as funding for the group. In addition, the Department of Homeland Security has begun monitoring any large purchases of gravy, tinfoil, pig's blood, and barbed wire in hopes of preventing another aesthetic tragedy.

"We are calling upon all citizens to remain vigilant during this difficult and utterly peculiar time," Chicago mayor Richard M. Daley said during a press conference earlier today. "The city needs your help to ensure that the disturbing message sent to us by these terrorists today, whatever it was, never happens again."
Shocked and slightly damp rescue workers.

"If you see something weird, say something," Daley added.

While officials have yet to determine the purpose of the attack, a number of potential theories have emerged, including the sudden deregulation of the U.S. economy, the destruction of culturally significant landmarks, and maybe the fact that man, in his essence, is no more than a collection of irrational fragments, incapable of finding reason where no reason exists.

A secret communiqué leaked by the Prophet's Collective, however, decries these theories and several others as being "completely off," and goes on to call the American people "cultural infidels."

Though many Chicago residents are still attempting to wrap their heads around the attack, some in the Windy City have refused to classify the Jell-O encasement as a terrorist act at all.

"I'm no expert, but I know terrorism when I see it," said Kathy Atwood, a Hyde Park mother of four. "Where is the devastating loss of life and massive destruction of infrastructure? This doesn't move me to run for my life at all."

She added: "Real terrorism takes years of training and meticulous plann

That's Brilliant!

[Greyfox]

Step 1: Hijack Train

Step 2: Fly it into a buliding

They'll NEVER see it coming! (Except I guess Canada did)

Re:That's Brilliant!

[Cenan]

You forgot
Step 3: ???
Step 4: Profit!

Re:That's Brilliant!

[Anonymous Coward]

FTFA:

"RCMP officials said the two accused were plotting to derail a passenger train."

Re:That's Brilliant!

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, very amusing. I expect the victims of the London Underground and Spanish train bombings think so too. Bombs on trains kill people just as dead as if they are on high rise buildings which have a plane flown into them. In the UK we respect the loss that we are so often reminded the USA suffered but the resiprocal respect is so often not apparent. You may, if your head was out of your ass, have noticed that respect was paid before the London Marathon for the atrocity in Boston to make the point.

Re:That's Brilliant!

[Anonymous Coward]

No, no, no. Step 4: 72 virgins!

Re:That's Brilliant!

[Anonymous Coward]

72 virgins! And they plan on staying that way forever!

Re:That's Brilliant!

[Anonymous Coward]

I was killed in the London bombings, but I still found it funny.

- Anonymous Corpse

Re:That's Brilliant!

[Anonymous Coward]

Embarrassed Canadian public works minister: "I KNEW we shouldn't have built those train tracks directly into that skyscraper!"

Re:That's Brilliant!

[Anonymous Coward]

Fuck off. It's a joke.

Re:That's Brilliant!

[Anonymous Coward]

Sorry to hear that your sense of humour was killed by a terrorist.

Re:That's Brilliant!

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't forget, if you have 72 virgins, you also have 72 in-law mother.
And from another standpoint, it could be 72 virgin guys.

You fail It

[Anonymous Coward]

contaminated while Well-known to you by Penisbird

Things That Make You Go "Hmmm..."

[Anonymous Coward]

1) They mention "Al Queda in Iran."

So...exactly how powerful is a Wahabbi Sunni sect in an iron-fisted Shiite country? Think they have the bandwidth to help idiots in Canada (not the US) do some questionable damage?

2) Coincidence?

Re:Things That Make You Go "Hmmm..."

[FuzzNugget]

I highly doubt it's coincidence. What is a bit baffling is why anyone thinks it's necessary. It appears that everyone did their job properly, citizens were vigilant without being vigilantes, no rights were violated and no one got hurt. Sounds like a win-win to me.

What's worrying is that after a single foiled event, some lawmakers are going batshit and scrambling to get it passed. Here's a little tip: any time a new law is proposed that would seek to remove certain rights to make a law enforcers job easier, alarm bells should go off in your head. Doubly so when the timing is suspiciously exploitative of a recent fear-inducing event.

Time to write your MPs, fellow Canadians.

Re:Things That Make You Go "Hmmm..."

[Anonymous Coward]

Iran has given sanctuary to several Al-Qaeda leaders. They may not like each other but they dislike others enough to have enough common ground to not be complete enemies.

Re:Things That Make You Go "Hmmm..."

[Xest]

"So...exactly how powerful is a Wahabbi Sunni sect in an iron-fisted Shiite country? Think they have the bandwidth to help idiots in Canada (not the US) do some questionable damage?"

After 9/11 Iran actually offered to support the US for precisely this reason, but the US rejected the support and declared Iran part of the problem - part of the axis of evil.

The problem is, having been cast into this role, Iran then seemed to come to the conclusion that it may as well play up to it. Iran did give refuge to some senior members of Al Qaeda who fled Afghanistan, and by about 2005 there was evidence of both Iran, and it's ally Syria supporting some elements of Al Qaeda against the US.

It seems to be one of those rather misguided "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" scenarios, which Syria learnt to it's detriment given that many of the Al Qaeda affiliated militants it gave sanctuary, training, arms, and a base to launch attacks against the US and the new Iraqi administration to are now the same folks fighting the Syrian government.

Alliances change frequently and are odd things sometimes - don't forget that it was only about 25 - 30 years ago that America was funding, training, and equipping Al Qaeda against the Afghans and that even in Libya and now Syria America finds itself on the same side as Al Qaeda in wanting the overthrow of then Gaddafi, and now Assad.

So don't assume religious differences are enough to preclude any possibility of cooperation - all sides have shown they're willing to back the other when the situation suits. Al Qaeda and Iran have worked together in the past, and even if they weren't working together now, that doesn't preclude the possibility that they at least came from Iran, having gone idle there.

It's likely, as much as anything, that Iran at least still tolerates a presence of Al Qaeda in certain areas allowing them to retain a decent amount of strength on the off-chance that they become a useful tool in carrying out war by proxy, even if it doesn't give them active material assistance any more.

Re:Things That Make You Go "Hmmm..."

[girlinatrainingbra]

reThey mention "Al Queda in Iran." --- So...exactly how powerful is a Wahabbi Sunni sect in an iron-fisted Shiite country?
.
It's because the idiots who believe these things make mistakes in what they believe and what they write in their scripts. If they want to provoke an incident in Iran, they create stories with their worst possible bogey-man in Iran: hence their choice of AQ, which logic would show would definitely not be in Iran, as your comment so correctly points out. But when you wants idiots to believes your stories, you tells them whats they wants to hearz.
.
Was there even a real plot in the first place? Or was there only a scenario scripted, funded, produced, and directed by "informants" and governmental agencies to further their own ends? The Patriot Act extended the concept further, making it illegal to attempt or conspire to provide material support. Before, prosecutors had to prove you gave support. Now they just have to show you wanted to.
.
That change, along with other newly exploited vagueness in the existing material-support laws, opened up a whole new path for prosecutors. In the Padilla case and others, the government has argued successfully that a suspect is guilty of attempting to provide material support even if the plot he allegedly supported was purely a government concoction or, just as curious, even if the government hadn't said what group or plot the accused might have been supporting. -- from Department of Precrime

Re:Things That Make You Go "Hmmm..."

[Anonymous Coward]

but but but but... Isamofacists!

Re:Things That Make You Go "Hmmm..."

[Motard]

"but but but but... Isamofacists!"

Mark my words. We'll get rid rid of this SQL plague and ISAM will again rule the world.

Re:Things That Make You Go "Hmmm..."

[fustakrakich]

Al Qaeda...

Imagine how a mother feels when her child turns against her.. and for money..

Re:Things That Make You Go "Hmmm..."

[dkleinsc]

One of the other lessons Iran learned from that "axis of evil" declaration:
- If you have nukes aimed at important US allies, like North Korea does, the US will probably leave you alone.
- If you don't have nukes, and have valuable resources like oil, the US may falsely claim you are trying to get nukes and invade your country.

Completely rational response: Do everything you can to acquire nukes and aim them at the nearest and most important US ally.

In other words, the Iraq War pretty much demands that the Iranian government become a nuclear threat to Tel Aviv. Which is why they're trying to do just that.

Re:Things That Make You Go "Hmmm..."

[Jmc23]

Your bowels are immense.

Re:Things That Make You Go "Hmmm..."

[Antipater]

Some security experts were surprised by the alleged link to al Qaeda factions in Iran, whose Shiite rulers have a generally hostile attitude toward the Sunni militant movement. Reuters explained: Iran did host some senior al Qaeda figures under a form of house arrest in the years following the September 11 attacks, but there has been little to no evidence to date of joint attempts to execute violence against the West. However, a U.S. government source said Iran is home to a little-known network of alleged al Qaeda fixers and "facilitators" based in the Iranian city of Zahedan, very close to Iran's borders with both Pakistan and Afghanistan. The source said the operatives serve as go-betweens, travel agents and financial intermediaries for al Qaeda operatives and cells operating in Pakistan and moving through the area. They do not operate under the protection of the Iranian government, which periodically launches crackdowns on the al Qaeda elements, though at other times appears to turn a blind eye to them.

Source

Re: Things That Make You Go "Hmmm..."

[Anonymous Coward]

They started scrambling to pass this law almost immediately after the events in Boston took place. What worries me most is that the arrest happens after months of being aware of these individuals--then suddenly initiated--probably to facilitate the passing of said law.

Re:Things That Make You Go "Hmmm..."

[alexo]

Coincidence?

From the page:
Now the Conservative government has a majority and can reinstate the measures on its own, but the Liberals say they will support the bill. The NDP opposes the bill and is questioning the timing of the government suddenly moving the bill into an emergency-like debate, accusing it of "being asleep since December."

At least there is one major party in Canadian Parliament that's concerned about personal rights and liberties.
Such behaviour should be rewarded.

Personal opinion and disclosure:
I came to Canada since 2000 and tried to be "politically aware" even before I got the citizenship. I never aimed to benefit any single political party but rather aspired to get people to think critically about the parties and candidates, as well as establish dialogs with elected representatives in my riding to try to sway them toward the "personal rights and liberties" side. Unfortunately I have grown so disappointed with both the Liberal and Conservative parties and their candidates (on both the federal and provincial levels) that I now advocate voting for any candidate unaffiliated with those two (independents, NDP, Green, Pirate, hell - even Rhino).

Re:Things That Make You Go "Hmmm..."

[alexo]

The difference is that this time Harper got handed a de-facto dictatorship over Canada.

Re:Things That Make You Go "Hmmm..."

[Anonymous Coward]

So...exactly how powerful is a Wahabbi Sunni sect in an iron-fisted Shiite country?

Iran does business with Sunnis. For example, Iran is a big supporter of Hamas.

Think they have the bandwidth to help idiots in Canada (not the US) do some questionable damage?

I wouldn't say it's Iran's top priority, but Iran has been complaining about Canada for some time. They recalled ambassadors & closed their embassies recently.

Re:Things That Make You Go "Hmmm..."

[DarthVain]

I also see the timing as curious.

In any case an analyst on CBC made a good point. Many of the leaders fled to Pakistan but some fled to Iran. I think they may have even been put under house arrest in Iran. However they still harbored them and apparently were able to still communicate outside of Iran. I doubt Iran as a nation or a people were really more involved (really what to they have to gain?) other than hosting some of them likely to thumb their national nose at the US... As to how much influence or coordination they could do under those conditions might be questionable. Anyway all speculation at this point. Iran may not be involved. Al Queda may not be involved. The two in question could be innocent. In consideration to some of the other screw ups made by all involved, it could be just about anything. We really don't have enough information to make any judgments at this point other than speculation.

Re:Things That Make You Go "Hmmm..."

[Anonymous Coward]

Your existence is pointless.

Re:Things That Make You Go "Hmmm..."

[Anonymous Coward]

I know! DB!

Re:Things That Make You Go "Hmmm..."

[bazorg]

So...exactly how powerful is a Wahabbi Sunni sect in an iron-fisted Shiite country?

perhaps they had support from Czechoslovakia...

Re:Things That Make You Go "Hmmm..."

[quantaman]

I could see some Al Qaeda presence in Iran among some part of the Sunni population, but I have a hard time imagining the state itself would assist or hide them.

At a stretch I could see them aiding some Sunni extremists with the goal of destabilizing regional rivals like Israel and the bigger Arab powers. But Al Qaeda seems an odd choice since they have a history of attacking western powers which is the last thing Iran would want (the less the west thinks about the Middle East the more influence Iran will have).

Re:Things That Make You Go "Hmmm..."

[Anonymous Coward]

There are AQ remnant elements in hiding in the remote northern parts of Iran. The Iranians aren't supporting them, but they haven't been able to root them out.

Re:Things That Make You Go "Hmmm..."

[vux984]

1) They mention "Al Queda in Iran."

So far, the Al Queda link isn't that convincing to me, and mostly seems present to stir the pot, generate headlines, and make the arrest even more prestigious than it otherwise would be.

"Al Queda plot foiled!"
looks better in print than
"2 losers plan to derail a train foiled"

Seriously, they keep mentioning "the Al Queda link", but so far it sounds like Al Queda didn't do much of anything beyond someone known to be associated with Al Queda gave them a high five on the internet for the plot. /eyeroll

If a member of Anonymous, who is also a member of the Catholic church, and an employee at Microsoft gave me a high five when I told them I was going to launch a denial of service attack on Sony should the headline read?

"Catholic Church, Costco, and Anonymous all linked to terrorist plot..."

"A spokesman for Microsoft denies it was involved in a plot to damage competitor Sony, but notes that Sony has been the victim of data breaches before and that Xbox live customers are better protected"
"A spokesman claiming to be from anonymous said they did it, but his membership in the clandestine organization could not be verified."
"Pope refuses to comment on Church involvement in the Sony hacking incident..."

This stuff just writes itself. :p

Re:Things That Make You Go "Hmmm..."

[vux984]

yeah... the costco ref should be microsoft... revised it... missed the change. :p

Re:Things That Make You Go "Hmmm..."

[Xest]

"I could see some Al Qaeda presence in Iran among some part of the Sunni population, but I have a hard time imagining the state itself would assist or hide them."

At absolute minimum it's fairly well documented and supported that Iran held a number of Al Qaeda under house arrest since they fled there from Afghanistan, and that some were given greater freedom of movement after a deal that freed a high profile Iranian that was kidnapped by the Pakistani Taliban and that at very least some of those members were able to carry out fundraising activities from Iran despite having been under the constant watch of the Iranian authorities- i.e. something they couldn't do without Iran's blessing.

But other evidence that points to Iranian support for at least some elements of Al Qaeda include Al Qaeda operatives caught red handed crossing the Iranian border to Afghanistan with Iranian arms which would've been difficult for them to acquire, again, given that some such elements had been under Iranian observation during their time there without Iranian support.

Part the problem in Iran is that there are a number of groups with different views and agendas. The Republican Guard often act independently of the will of the leadership, but the leadership tolerates this as the Republican Guard are also the only ones preventing them from being overthrown. It's possible that even if the Iranian leadership hate Al Qaeda that the RG are happy with the idea with a handful of it's elements blowing up Western soldiers in Afghanistan to keep the nation destabilised and prevent a strong nation ever growing up on their doorstep.

Fundamentally they have ideological differences with Al Qaeda, but keeping two of their largest neighbours weak through destabilisation is going to be more important to them than taking sides and I think the Republican Guard seem to get this.

For what it's worth, it's a similar predicament to Pakistan in this respect - the Pakistani civilian administration doesn't like Al Qaeda because it wants them overthrown and replaced with an Islamic dictatorship, but the ISI and elements of the Army do support them, because they can use them to a) Destabilise Afghanistan and keep it weak, and b) Carry out proxy attacks against countries like India, and c) support Pakistan as a useful rear action guerilla force should war break out and India push into Pakistan.

Re:Things That Make You Go "Hmmm..."

[Uberbah]

Iran did give refuge to some senior members of Al Qaeda who fled Afghanistan

Citation? Lots of accusations are made against Iran, but most of them are just that - accusations.

Why Not to Get Dragged into the US' Stupid Wars

[GameboyRMH]

Exhibit AS (legal exhibits follow Linux disk nomenclature right?)

FBI involvement means threat dubious

[Anonymous Coward]

The investigation was part of a cross-border operation involving Canadian law enforcement agencies, the FBI and the U.S. Department of Homeland Security.

If the FBI was involved then it probably was not an actual terrorist plot. It was probably planned by the FBI so they could toot their own horn. http://yro.slashdot.org/story/12/05/01/230223/ny-times-fbi-foils-its-own-terrorist-plots

Was it the Newfoundland Bullet?

[xxxJonBoyxxx]

>> Terror Plot Against Canadian Trains Thwarted

Not against the Newfoundland Bullet, was it?

Re:Was it the Newfoundland Bullet?

[PoisOnouS]

My grandfather was an engineer on the Newfie Bullet. He assures me that any saboteurs would have blown themselves up in frustration while waiting for their target to arrive. D.

Something needs to change

[Vince6791]

Well, what the hell do you expect if the west is occupying the middle east, get the fuck out of there already and let the muslims deal with their own problems. Shit! U.S should give the Israeli's new jersey or hawaii and no more Israel vs Muslim nations. If nothing gets done this west vs middle east thing will never change and we in the north america will always be a target which means u.s citizen will lose more rights in the name of security. Another option, we just nuke the whole middle east including the Israeli's and be done with it. Something has to change drastically.

Re:Something needs to change

[Anonymous Coward]

We should deal with the Middle East in the same way we dealt with Imperial Japan and Nazi Germany. They are no longer Imperial Japan and Nazi Germany, but are instead Japan and Germany, both industrious, productive members of the global community. Trying to make nice with the Middle East is pointless. It will achieve nothing. The west needs to take off the kid gloves and administer a good, old fashioned, tried-and-true beatdown.

How convenient just when bill S-7 is being

[future assassin]

debated. Which is funny because they got these guy using current laws so there's no need for new freedom removing laws. All the authorities have to do is do their fucking job.

So how hard is it to derail a train, anyway?

[RevWaldo]

These guys have been planning this since last year? What's to plan? What more would it take than a couple of guys with picks and sledgehammers to kink up the track? Perhaps a train buff out there could weigh in on this.

.

Context is everything

[rueger]

The arrest of these supposedly dangerous terrists (as Vic Toews, Minister of Public Safety (and doesn't THAT sound Orwellian?) pronounces the previously three syllable word) was carefully timed to happen the same day that the government is pushing through a particularly nasty bit of spy legislation.The kind that lets the government lock you up for days at a time without charges just because you sort of fit some cop's definition of "terrist."

These guys have a very spotty record in terms of suppressing dissent, and arresting people for non-existent crimes, so I'd hold off until some actual evidence shows up. Cop press releases are not (yet) enough to prove anything. I actually wonder about how these guys can present a serious threat to public safety when the same goons are saying that at no time was any member of the public at risk.

Thought crimes anyone?

FBI often responsible for these 'plots'

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.minds.com/blog/view/54569/former-fbi-chief-ted-gunderson-admits-government-is-involved-in-most-039terrorist039-attacks

Via?

[crossmr]

You mean the poor excuse for a rail system in Canada? Via has fallen into near non-existence in recent years. You might as well try and blow up a covered bridge out in the middle of nowhere to disrupt traffic flow.

Re:Via?

[Fr05t]

You mean the poor excuse for a rail system in Canada? Via has fallen into near non-existence in recent years. You might as well try and blow up a covered bridge out in the middle of nowhere to disrupt traffic flow.

If anything were to happen to the covered bridge in Hartland, New Brunswick I assure you, it would be very disruptive to the flow of traffic.

Re:Via?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, but who cares about NB? It isn't in Alberta. ..

"investigating the plot"

[Rogerborg]

Anyone else having real problems not reading that as "instigating"?

Any way?

[Anonymous Coward]

about 99.9% of Muslims do not in any way support terrorism

"any way" can be interpreted rather loosely, but if interpreted in the strictest sense, mosque donations to fake charities which are fronts for terrorist groups or donations to orgs like the PLO or Hamas are "supporting terrorism", as are chants of "death to America/Israel" (not all support has to be material support).

News conference.

[garyoa1]

Watched the press conference on tv and they said they had no idea which trains but that they were watching many. Officials have idea if they had cross border passenger trains in mind.

Then you get the NY representative who says YEP Dey wuz gunna come over da boarder n' blow up 'Mericans! (Kapital M!)

Why do we keep electing these assyholez? Anything to get their names in the paper... for stupid. And they say the USSR was good at brainwashing? Can't hold a candle to US congressmen.

Re:News conference.

[garyoa1]

Oops typo. Sorry. "Officials have NO idea if they had cross border trains in mind."

What was Plan "B"?

[hduff]

Since we now know what Plan "Eh?" was all about.

Yes, but

[ThatsNotPudding]

In fact, we can make this statement much stronger: There are about 1.2 billion Muslims in the world. There are estimated to be no more than about 10,000 Muslim terrorists in the world.

But how many of those 1.2B would stop let alone criticize a father 'honor killing' his daughter for some psychotic perception of harlotry?

Islam is not the only misogynist religion (spoiler: they all are), but they lap the field when exercising their views on the subject.

To me, that falls well within the definition of terrorism: terrorizing all XXs.

Re:Yes, but

[Anonymous Coward]

How many Christians stop, let a alone criticize the killing of an abortion providing doctor?

To me, that falls well within the definition of terrorism: terrorizing all XXs.

Yes, to me it does too, which is why I'm trying to get Christianity proscribed in this country.

a U.S. government source said

[Anonymous Coward]

...a U.S. government source said...

I think it was a U.S. government source that also said something about WMD and yellowcake and biological and chemical warfare equipment being in Iraq. Wait to see what shakes out.

Actual Plan?

[Anonymous Coward]

Is this an actual case of attempted terrorism or is the RCMP taking cues from the US federal law enforcement agencies and finding some hapless buffoons and setting them up as patsies. Seriously I think we have had three actual cases of terrorism in the past 10 years, none of which were caught before attempting their plan (thankfully two out of the three failed miserably), the rest from what I understand were trumped up charges where the FBI/ATF/DHS found some loudmouthed idiots and either egged them on with food, money, equipment & plans or bugged them and claimed that their ramblings about zombies, prostitutes & hating police were plans to overthrow the government.

What a coincidence!

[nuckfuts]

On the heels of a terrorist attack in Boston, and after calmly watching these guys for over a year, the RCMP make arrests just as the Canadian government just happens to be debating a new anti-terrorism law in parliament. For certain political interests, it seems rather convenient to have the al-Queda bogeyman appear in Canada at this precise moment.

FWIW, we have seen precedent for the Prime Minister's Office (illegally) influencing the actions of the RCMP.

Re:What a coincidence!

[hguorbray]

posting to undo bad mod

Many Canadian conservatives and law and order types look hungrily at all of the liberty and due process depriving laws that the US has enacted since 9/11/01

I hope this isn't playing into that strategy, but it seems plausible

-I'm just sayin'

VIA + Amtrak

[Anonymous Coward]

You mean the poor excuse for a rail system in Canada? Via has fallen into near non-existence in recent years. You might as well try and blow up a covered bridge out in the middle of nowhere to disrupt traffic flow.

Specifically, the train was the joint VIA-Amtrak Toronto-NY cross-border train, the Maple Leaf, which is an Amtrak train, including Amtrak-owned hardware that is run by VIA crew on that side of the border. (They actually stop and change crews at the border, because heaven forbid we let Canadians drive in the US, or USians drive in Canada.) Apparently they figured it would be easier to attack it on the Canadian side

Which is pretty stupid, because the Mounties are scarier than the TSA any day.

Wow, another fake terror in Canada?

[Anonymous Coward]

Wonder, if like the last one, we'll find out one of the men were on the government payroll..

Meanwhile ...

[Anonymous Coward]

the US is training and arming al Qaeda supporters in Syria. What could possibly go wrong?