Slashdot Mirror
Condensation On Your Beer != Good
An anonymous reader writes "Turns out that condensation on your favorite chilled beverage is a bad thing for keeping it cold. Two researchers conducted an experiment in their bathroom proving that condensation can raise the temperature of your beer by nine degrees!"
By the time there's any condensate to wipe off the glass, hasn't the damage (i.e. heat from condensation) already been done? That's what warms the glass and its contents, not the water remaining on the side. So wiping it off won't prevent the warming.
Now how about an experiment about the optimal water quantity for a wet t-shirt contest? Something about capillary action certainly has to be discovered...
Save the ales!
My beer is never in the glass long enough to form condensation.
>> Two researchers conducted an experiment in their bathroom
A lot of my stories that end with "and then we were both grounded for a month" start that way too.
Phase transition from gaseous to liquid dissipates thermal energy. News at 18:00.
Computer simulation made easy -- LibGeoDecomp
That's incredible.
They should file a patent in order to protect their original research.
They would get billions from fridge/heat pump/cooling tower manufacturers or anybody who sweats!
Note to international readers: That is 9 degrees Fahrenheit. It's not as bad news for the summer days as it looks!
Alright here's what I need you to do. Go buy a six pack of beer and meet me in the bathroom.
Nice submission. News for Nerds, Stuff That Matters indeed.
Not one shit was given...
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
Definitely news for nerds here! Science that we can apply to our everyday lives, making our day just a little bit better. And it's an interesting factoid for bar conversations.
Lose = not win
The condensation pays a latent heat penalty, warming the beer when the beer is super cold. But conversely the evaporation pays back the latent heat penalty at some higher temperature. Where the equilibrium point is I'm not sure.
But there is an easy solution to this problem: mist the outside of your beer glass with cold water. This will tie up all the condensation nucleation sites without paying the latent heat penalty.
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
You chill beverage to hide the unpleasant flavors. Good beer is best served just at or slightly below room temp. Keep it in a cool, dark place - it's ready when you are. Colonials ::sigh::
Senior NCO in the fight against entropy. I've seen things, man. Things no one should have to see.....
Beer is certainly "stuff that matters." And the fact that condensation transfers heat to the surface of the glass may be "news" to some folks. But the number of "nerds" who didn't already know this must be quite small.
OTOH, it's an excuse to talk about beer. Matter of fact, I'm having one right now. ;-)
Cheers!
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve your problem, you're not using enough of it. --AC
>> Two researchers conducted an experiment in their bathroom
A lot of my stories that end with "and then we were both grounded for a month" start that way too.
I imagine a lot of stories that start that way end with "...and 9 months later, you were born!"
(for fans of Sexy Loser)
(for those who don't know, don't look it up at work)
The uptight BMW-driving Grey Poupon crowd who buy those kinds of drink cooler gadgets and show them off to friends are the ones getting the warmed over beer. Whereas the average joe whooping it up with buddies while watching the game doesn't have the problem, but is too 'faced to notice the difference anyway.
... but, there's a solution at hand: Drink fast!
Most beer is served way too cold, since bars tend to keep everything at piss water lager temperature.
Proper beers are better at celler temperatures instead of near to freezing. Anything that helps get a beer back up is fine by me. Most places I have to order two beers to start so I can let one warm while I drink the other.
I must share that there is something wrong with the beer when one has to drink it extremely cold.
An Orval should be served between 12-14 degrees. That's insensitive Celcius degrees.
Why not spending a couple of extra cents on quality ingredients to make a quality beer instead of blowing money on cooling?
Leaving it in a salted ice medium in a cooler is bad for it too? It can get pretty wet that way.
While on a float trip in Arkansas many years ago, a friend in a bikini offered me a titty. Shock turned to disappointment when I learned that in parts of the South Central US, those foam beverage sleeves are known as "Tiddies" for the Texas-based manufacturer of such foam-rubber products. But my beer did stay colder longer, so it wasn't a total loss.
I am not a crackpot.
this is simple highschool physics. the real problem we need to research and investigate is why do beer bottles unexpectedly and inappropriately become empty.
I have, as a scientist, conducted extensive research myself and have to date been unable to conclude a definitive cause. I implore slashdotters, if you have any experience in this phenomenon or have experienced it personally, please adhere to your diligence as scientists and provide additional research data. bottles, glasses and even steins will exhibit this behavior, so please consider this in your testing protocol.
Good people go to bed earlier.
and how much refrigeration and insulating foam do you require to avoid being disgusted by the weak, stale taste of corporate ditch water? is there a formula?
physics still works! WTF. This is news?
The condensation makes the beer look tasty and I plan to drink it while it's still cold, not study it.
I volunteer!
My beers don't last long enough to raise 9 degrees...
Is this really news? WHAT? Entropy? Condensation? Thermodynamics? Events unfolding along the time continuum... I... Actually,.. Do Not... Know... what... To Say... Condensation... . On a beer glass... ...We put a man on the moon, and yet we JUST figured this out.
"A 'person' is smart. 'People' are dumb, panicky animals and you know that."
So of course condensation means your drink will not be able to remain cold. Duh.
Isn't this basic high school science class stuff? Yes, condensation raises temperatures, just like evaporation lowers temperatures.
That's the whole reason human beings can sweat to cool off.
A lot of people presumably know about that. Are those people surprised that this works "in both directions"?
I learned this in 9th grade.
This happens only with American beer, in the rest of the world the temperature raises only by five degrees
Phase transition from gas to liquid is exothermic?
This is a fun classroom experiment, but it isn't science news.
> Turns out that condensation on your favorite chilled beverage is abad thing for keeping it cold
It's also bad because you're losing beer as it leaks out thru microholes.
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
Sorry, this one is in the 'duh' category. The only meaningful thing to come out of it is that my Harley-Davidson can/bottle cozy works better than advertised on my favorite can of Schlitz. It insulates the can from my hand (and the general environment). Keeps condensation to a minimum. And, completely stylish to boot!
Off to swill another six-pack and shoot some poor, defenseless, varmint, lawyers or revenuers from my back porch.
For what it's worth: .004" water film ~0.22 in ^3 = 3.6ml
Surface area of can ~ 53.25" ^2
Volume of
Latent heat of fusion - water - 520kcal / kg. Or, 1,872 heat calories for our example.
1KCal is enough heat to heat 1Kg H2O 1 deg C.
1Cal is enough heat to heat 1g H20 1 deg C.
355ml of liquid in std 12oz (US can).
1,872Cal / 355ml = 5.7deg C (just in condensation).
3.6ml * 60 deg difference = an additional 216 Cal, or about another deg C.
6.7 deg C. = 12.06 deg F. Within spitt'n distance of the article.
I don't think the varmints in WA thought about having to cool down the condensation to the same temp as the can once it was condensed. That heat comes from the can, and it's contents, and so warms it up as well. Also, the thermal values used are for pure water. Beer is water (mostly - even that panther-piss known as Old Style), but some other salts, alcohol (the good stuff!), dissolved CO2 and other aromatic bits to give it flavor, color, and odor. And, there is the can itself - it has mass that needs to be taken into account.
Note - I'm estimating the area/volume of the can as a perfect cylinder - Someone with a laser scanner can get the exact can geometry. I'm currently using mine to design a new cam shaft on my old lady's ride
Just 'cause I talk like a hick doesn't mean I'm stupid like you college pukes.
AC
Vapor going to liquid needs to ditch heat ... where do you think it is going? It isn't just the temperature differential either it is that there is a state change so you's got to pay the cost of the heat of vaporization too.
Ummmm this is 5th grade public school level science right here. I don't understand how this is a discovery at all. Or even noteworthy.
I used to drink everything cold until one day I was drinking orange juice. I left the glass out for an hour and it had warmed a fair amount and I noticed when I drank it that it tasted much richer, the orange flavor really came out vs. when it came out of the fridge. Now I drink most everything I can warm because stuff tastes so much better. I cant believe I spent all those years drinking cold guiness. I keep my guiness in the laundry room because it is in the basement and dark so its slightly below room temperature and wow I can taste so much more in it.
I guess most American beer companies and microbrews sell people on the idea of ice cold beer to cover up the fact it tastes like shit and is basically piss flavored water.
The only reason people need to chill there beer so much is because it tastes so bad. Cold things simply taste less. If you have a drink that tasted good, you wouldn't need to drink it at near freezing temperatures.
A temperature in the 50 degree range is considered optimal for beers with more depth of flavor. The higher temperature allows the hops and grain to shine. However, if you're drinking American Piss Light, you probably want it ice cold so it tastes as close to water as possible.
Condensation increases the ease of thermal energy to be transferred from a warmer object to a colder object? CrAzY!!
Next thing you'll tell me is that people's sweat causes their body to get COOLER!
Note to slashdot editors... maybe next time you should tighten up the wording a bit. When you make it sound like "hey water is wet!" you kind of get a backlash.
My co-workers mock me for my beer rituals... If we go to a patio for a few cold ones at lunch, I won't let the server take the menu away... I need the menu to shade my beer so the UV doesn't make the hops all skunky. Nobody believes that I can even taste the difference but it's obvious to me... Skunky beer sucks... So if you're on a patio, keep it shaded or in a coozy...
A good beer should be at around 50 F anyway.
The line "Two researchers conducted an experiment in their bathroom..." doesn't inspire a whole lot of confidence or credibility to the alleged findings... A temperature controlled clean-room laboratory, maybe...
People always claim that bad beer tastes like piss. And I always wonder how they know! Which reminds me of a childhood memory. We were in the Catskills in what was then called a bungalow colony. One day, for some reasons, the owner had to siphon some gas, which he started by sucking on the hose. My dad asked what it tasted like - it tastes like manure he said. Once we were away, my dad wondered aloud how he knew.
If the cold is getting out cooling the air on the surface of a container, then the heat is obviously getting in. Someone failed thermodynamics.
Hey World!, how about we cure cancer or figure out cheap clean unlimited energy first.
I haven't thought of anything clever to put here, but then again most of you haven't either.
A lot of heat is released from water vapor when it condenses.
A strong IgNobel 2013 Contender. All the best to Dale Durran and Dargan Frierson and the University of Washington.
Fahrenheit??? What kind of science is that?
There's this one bar near my workplace, which is overall pretty good. Excellent selection. But there's one totally fucked up thing about them: they have a place in the refrigerator, where they keep glasses. Order a beer, and you get one of these cold glasses.
That pisses me off. Now I have to wait longer for my American IPA to warm up, so I can taste it and smell it. (Yes, I'm one of those assholes who, half the time he raises his drinking arm, brings the glass up to his nose rather than his mouth. I know I look particularly hilarious when I'm doing it with a bottle, literally sticking the tip of my nose into the bottle with joyous hedonistic abandon, sometimes.) I understand why places that sell Coors and Budweiser have an obsession with COLD beer, and I might even agree with them on a doppelbock. (Except my agreement would be that it's ok to be cold, not that they should obsess over coldness.) But IPA? Keep your goddamn refrigerated glass away from my beer. And while room temperature might be too warm, 60F is not too warm. And below 40F is definitely too cold.
If condensation will make the IPA warm up sooner, then condensation is a good thing.
We ALL know that condensation adds heat to the environment just as boiling/evaporating absorbs heat (yes, sounds strange but boiling is a cooling effect).
I'm seeing a lot of beer hipsterism in the comments and I'd like to take this moment to say, from those of us that drink the cheap stuff, "We don't give a fuck what you think about beer."
You guys are like audiophiles, paying 1000% more cash for 2% more quality. And most of those top-shelf microbrews and what-have-you are an acquired taste (a "good" ale tastes like hairspray to me...). Good for you, your pallet must be so evolved! But for me, I just want to pop open a Coors Light and enjoy my beer without being bothered. So next time your friend's friend orders a Bud Light instead of whatever bullshit designer beer you're drinking, leave them alone. You might just make a friend instead of an enemy.
One last note, Americans like their drinks cold. Ice fucking cold. Beer too.
Yours Truly,
Anonymous and Frugal Beer Drinker
More than this needs to be considered (relative humidity for example) but Evaporation of condensation must be considered in addition to just condensation. The initial temperature of the pour is important. A properly cooled british beer near room temperature is not in the same camp as a beer from a lightly salted aMerican ice chest.
A solid pint glass that has been chilled and rinsed in an ice bath is also important to me. Since glass is a very good insulator when compared to an aluminum pop top a thick pre chilled glass mug works wonders.
Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because Fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't. Mark Twain.
The last time I had condensation on my beer I was sitting beside the pool at a resort in Samoa. 33 degrees Celsius, not a cloud in the sky, view like a postcard, and plenty more beer in the bar's fridge. The condensation didn't bother me all that much.