Slashdot Mirror
It's Time To Start Taking Stolen Phones Seriously
itwbennett writes "'Find My iPhone' is neat, but it's time for smartphone makers and carriers to stop pretending their anti-theft measures are anything more than minimum viable products, says blogger Kevin Purdy. He's not the first to point this out: As reported in Slashdot, 'NYC Mayor Michael Bloomberg said overall crime in New York City was up 3.3% in 2012 due to iPhone, iPad and other Apple device thefts.' And now San Francisco and New York attorneys general are calling a 'Smartphone Summit' where representatives from Apple, Google, Samsung, and Microsoft are due to meet and discuss the implementation of a industry-wide 'kill switch' system."
When a phone is stolen, another phone gets purchased. Reducing phone thefts will cut into new phone sales!
industry-wide 'kill switch' system
It's really for stolen phones .. just like the kill switch for the internet was for emergency purposes. This has nothing whatsoever to do with cutting off people's means of communicating effectively with each other.
I take Stolen Phones Seriously. But they're only good for a while and then they stop working. Then it's hard to take them seriously.
The NSA is listening in on everything anyways, why aren't they arresting phone thieves when they use the phones?
Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you
The best best for Android is Cerberus. Seriously, it does everything that "Find my iPhone" does plus a few things it will never do. It's free today through AppGratis http://www.droid-life.com/2013/06/06/deal-cerberus-lifetime-license-is-free-today-from-appgratis/
If you happen to have a rooted phone, there's even a ROM version which will survive a Factory Reset.
They do this in Australia.
Works because all the telco's share some data/systems (also used for nation-wide porting etc).
The solution can only be good if provider are the one who are force to fix the issue. You need to realize provider will allow stolen phone on their network until they are force no do to so. The main reason that explain this is that they already lost the phone, if they don't reactivate it to the person who bought it on the street/pawn shop/craigslist, the profit that could be made on this phone is lost forever...
Given that we have such tools, why would we even need a kill switch?
They will know exactly where that bad boy is and who the theif is calling...
What does Microsoft have to do with smartphones or theft?
WhatMeWorry!
It's Apple's fault that NYC is a crime ridden shit hole. If these disgusting companies would stop making products that people actually want New Yorkers wouldn't have to resort to robbing each other! Why can't Apple and Google be more like Microsoft!
Why can't they just blacklist the phone's IMEI?
If you reply, do so only to what I explicitly wrote. If I didn't write it, don't assume or infer it.
After a $150 deductible
Burn FAT not OIL
cut them off at the network... NYC are talking to the wrong people they need to speak to GSM and CTIA.
they do it in Europe as well the USA is very slow about this...
" Carriers AT&T and T-Mobile offer a joint database, as the carriers use the same basic networking technology. Verizon and Sprint offer a second database. By the end of November 2013, the four carriers will combine databases, and adding smaller carriers like Nex-Tech and Cellcom. Plans exist to link the US database with an international version hosted by the GSM Association to prevent stolen phones from being shipped to overseas markets and used on other networks."
What we need is central industry DB that a stolen phone is registered to. Once registered to this DB no carrier in US would allow on their network.
Apple, Google, Blackbery would ban these devices from their servers also.
Amazon, Ebay and other resale services would require the seller to input a photo of the reg numbers from the phone. These would be registered on service and once registered to Ebay only can be posted 1 time until sold, once sold that seller can not re-use the info from that phone
If the user receives the phone and it doesn't match and is blacklisted buyer goes to police dept and files police report with info and submits to Ebay and they charge back user and don't get phone back as police wold keep as stolen property.
Any user who buys the phone on the street would have to go to web site and get cert of safety to prove they checked phone was not stolden. This cert would take 24hrs.
If they buy phone without checking and later it is found to have been slolden then they get to share in the charges from the person who committed crime. If he killed or maimed they get charges as accessories.
This would not keep 100% of crime down but would force the prices down to not make it worth it for criminals, Only the Apple/Google ban would beak for global resale
http://preyproject.com/
Prey lets you keep track of your laptop, phone and tablet whenever stolen or missing -- easily and all in one place. It's lightweight, open source software that gives you full and remote control, 24/7.
You can even run your own server if you want and be in full control.
The phone is bait. It should commonly lead you to criminals who have done other illegal things. A super hero who retrieves phones just so he can honeypot get to the criminals would be legit. All he'd need to do is use GPS, then call the phone when he's in range and have a conversation with his prey before closing the distance and kicking tail.
I understand why real cops wouldn't want to retrieve phones. It would be easy to spot, but they would be encountering possibly violent criminals more often. No one wants to die even if they're doing their job more effectively.
God spoke to me
A little action a la Charles Bronson in "Death Wish" would go
a long way toward clearing up this problem.
Sure, you want my phone, motherfucker ?
It comes with six .45 ACP rounds as a bonus.
And if you don't this your NOT eating 'freedom fries'
bæ8Ã0sÃOE?5r©oÂÃ?âz:ÃÃAÃ?ÃOEÂ6fXÃ?]Â
First they get ripped off by Apple then the get mugged.
Would it not be simpler to learn that running around in public among people you do not know showing off expensive shiny things is just asking for trouble.
... Apple, Google, Samsung, and Microsoft are due to meet and discuss the implementation of a industry-wide 'kill switch' system."
Soon to be highjacked by the job-creating content industry.
Oops, sorry, looks like you'd better stop pirating Mickey Mouse from 75 years ago if you want to make that emergency call!
Look where all this talking got us, baby.
I am from a country where all the operators adhere to the CEIR blacklists. Phones are blocked by IMEI, and it is not necessarily trivial to change the IMEI on modern phones. The problem is that most users who have their phone stolen do not bother (or know how) to blacklist. Just reporting the phone stolen does not automatically blacklist it, one has to fill out a separate form for that. If something was done so that close to all stolen phones are blacklisted, stealing a phone would immediately become a lot less lucrative. At least from my experience in Norway, phones are stolen to resell locally or for the thief to use. Effective blacklisting would make sure that stealing a phone would only be feasible for anyone who would send them to a country where blacklists are not enforced, or someoene with the equipment and knowhow on changing IMEIs. This would pretty much rule out petty thiefs.
Dvorak on Doomtech
Each phone comes with an IMSI - people who can change them are not the targets of general crime prevention. Perhaps it might make sense to keep a "Do not connect" registry for stolen phones, rather than worrying about how to kill them? Congress is not responsible for my remote data policy - but is responsible for general social welfare -- mandating a kill switch seems stupid when it's far easier to create a database of "You're dealing in stolen property" that can be queried - as that is already a crime.
If you wallet is stolen, you don't expect to get any cash in in back. If your watch in stolen, or your TV, you should not expect to see either again.
And if your phone is stolen, like every other object on the planet, you most likely will not see it again.
Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
I hope that their bold plan merely involves IMEI blacklisting(though, if so, why are they inviting handset makers, rather than bitching at the telcos?); but if the demand is being made at the handset vendors, I get a sinking feeling that it might involve some sort of client-side software that is designed to be impossible to remove/circumvent. I'm sure that the vendors would implement that in way totally unproblematic for people who want to root/jailbreak/run custom ROMs...
Dear Citizen
Your comments are monitored for your safety, under the new FRIENDLY STASI policy, we give you one warning when you make comments we deem to be 'un American'.
Consider this your first warning.
Apple, Google, Samsung, and Microsoft
According to This site iOS has 59..49% of the market and Android 24.4% in the US. Windows Phone (1.21%) is being beaten out by BlackBerry (1.64%), Symbian (2.06%, and Java ME (10.2%). Very few people are buying Windows Phones, so how much of a market is there for stolen ones?
don't flash your iphone around any place you wouldn't be comfortable flashing around a handfull of hundred dollar bills. leave it in your pocket/purse/bag. most ppl don't need to be instantly available 24/7. that pic someone sent you of a cat can wait 30 min until you're somewhere else. if you think you can't live life this way it get into the way back machine and remember life 15 yrs ago.
When a phone is reported lost or stolen the MEID and the SIM card # are added to a list and cannot be used on the VZW network. Often though the first thing a
competent thief will due is turn the phone off preventing any GPS locating software to track the phone. The phone will either be sold to a person who does not
check the MEID # (and when they try and do an ESN change will be told the phone is on the lost stolen list and to please take the phone into a VZW Corp. store.)
Or they take the phone someplace like Cricket and they will flash the phone to work on the Cricket network. Another option is the phone will be parted out.
Yes, the phonemaker gets more revenue. However, the money used to fund those replacements comes from an increased levy on all phone purchasers who have coverage. So everyone with coverage pays more for phones. The extra money that everyone pays for phones means less money spent on all other possible purchases. So Apple's revenue increase is Krogers' or Target's or Shell's decrease.
We usually disregard widely-distributed costs and look at local effects. This is especially true of politicians. But those effects are real and directly affect the aggregate economy numbers.
cut them off at the network... NYC are talking to the wrong people they need to speak to GSM and CTIA.
they do it in Europe as well the USA is very slow about this...
This is a bit of a step backwards in actual security. A phone cut off from the network wont receive the wipe command from the MDM (Mobile Device Management).
Granted that in an ideal world users would not keep any vital data on a mobile device so all we have to worry about is locking the device out from accessing the data by remote but unfortunately we live in the real world where users think it's a good idea to store half the file system and 90% of their mail on these devices, so killing all network access is pointless.
And it wont deter thefts either. In Europe, if all German carriers block a stolen phone, they'll just hock it over the border in Poland. This wont be that much harder from the US given things like Ebay and cheap international shipping. Also you're seriously underestimating the number of suckers out there who will buy "Cheap Iphone, Network unlocked (not lying)".
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
If you recall Occupy Wallstreet, there was a big city and only a few protestors. You can't cut the networks without all the big city being affected.
Take the warrantless data mining the NSA is doing, do a graph analysis on it, and you can easily identify and remove just the protestors right to communicate without it affecting the rest of the city. To do that you need to selectively remove just individual phones.
Add to this the new NY law making it a crime to annoy a police officer, which literally can make anyone a felon at the whim of an officer and you have suppression of protests right there:
http://boingboing.net/2013/06/06/new-york-senate-makes-it-a-fel.html
Rethink what friends you have. Do you have friends who oppose something? Or are 'for' something? Could that something be considered anti-American by any present or future government official? Then you will be linked by association.
If you have nothing to hide, AND EVERYONE YOU KNOW has nothing to hide, perhaps you'll be fine.
I own a microsoft powered phone, no one wants it
What happens when "hackers" get hold of this kill switch?
Such as
causing injury to criminals,
I think it's worth viewing protester as cancer cells. Occupy Wallstreet may have had majority support of Americans, but to the NSA the protestors were a cancer that needed to be surgically removed. The Statsi like surveillance and the new 'annoy' law, lets them surgically remove those protestors.
"Well, what you need to hide changes as the government changes"
The way they've done it, the NSA gets all the data on everyone with a 'FISA'. Then all searches are then warrantless on that data. They no longer need a warrant they can just tap in some details into the computer and trawl through all their private data, who they talk to, what messages they send, texts of their emails.
So you don't retroactively get to hide the data. Or even defend it from warrantless search, because they already have their copy. So the strategy of hiding different data as the government changes doesn't work.
Likewise the rule about the NSA not spying on Americans is irrelevant too, the FBI simply signs the FISA warrant for them, as you can see in the leaked warrant.
You have to be boring. As boring as possible, the only pictures you should take are of your cat, the only friends you should have are the guy who likes to drink beer and watch baseball.
Absolute Software has been in the business of tracking and recovering stolen computers for years. They've recovered nearly 29,000 stolen computers, and they've just expanded to phones - Samsung has just integrated their technology in the firmware level on the S4, with other devices coming soon. Their tracking agent will survive a phone reset and their forensic tools (deployed post-theft) mean that they can actually catch the guy that knocked you over the head and stole your phone.
http://www.zdnet.com/new-lojack-solution-for-galaxy-s4-makes-theft-meaningless-7000016433/
Unlike a software solution only, the Absolute Software LoJack system is both a hardware and software solution. Starting with the Samsung Galaxy S4, Absolute's persistence technology is built into the firmware of the S4 and cannot be removed, even if the device is restored to factory settings.
The Galaxy S4 has the technology built in now, but the necessary Absolute software solution is not yet available. When it is available, you will be able to remotely lock your device, locate it, erase the data from the device and storage card, or have the Absolute Investigation and Recovery Services Team attempt to recover it.
The Recovery Team is made up of experts from law enforcement, the FBI, the Marines, the US Army, and other government positions. To date, they have recovered 28,000+ devices (laptops and PCs) in over 95 countries.
As if anyone's hard-up enough to steal an Android or Windows phone. "iPhone, iPad and other Apple device thefts"
look, stealing is nothing different than a form of planned obsolescence.
every business school teaches planned obsolescence and how to use it to maximize profit.
now, lets imagine that you have a product where there is lower planned obsolescence. is that good or bad for your profit? thats right, its bad.
now lets imagine a product that gets stolen a lot vs one that doesnt. which one is more like planned obsolescence? Thats right. the stolen product. its good for profits.
a corporation that is interested in making a profit is actually practicing mismanagement when it implements a high quality anti-theft system.
Cell phone manufacturers and service providers make money from stolen cell phones. When someone has to replace a phone they always get a newer model, and this is often tied to a new contract, which is where the carrier makes their money. Providers also make money on the stolen phones once they are in use. The proof is in the behavior of the manufactures and providers. They have done as little as possible to address the issue. That's why law enforcement at the local level is the agent of change. It's local police who are calling out the phone industry.
This is no different then Big Pharma and prescription drug abuse. It is certain that they know how much of their production goes to illegal use, and they do nothing to match supply to legitimate demand. Once the pills go out the door, they wash their hands of all responsibility. No matter how much they publicly pretend to oppose drug abuse, they do everything they can to keep the status quo in place. They profit from a distribution system that makes it easy to divert drugs. Drug regulation falls on the states, where enforcement targets doctors and pharmacists who cater to addicts. This is a system doomed to fail, as evidenced by the huge explosion in addiction to prescription drugs. Meanwhile the corporate executives get good citizen awards for sponsoring local little league teams.
This is endemic to all big corporations. Sometimes they have deniablity like drug companies. Other times they just buy legislation and make their illicit behavior legal. Can you say EULA? No sane person would by a car if it it had similar take-it-or-leave-it liability.
There are plenty of other examples. Wall Street runs on corruption. It's all over the military industrial complex. Agribusiness has used gene patents to extort money from farmers who's neighboring crops have been contaminated by GMO cross pollination, which they initially said couldn't happen. It's hard to find a sector of the economy that doesn't work this way,
Why is Snark Required?
What does microsoft have to do with smartphones? Who invited this small company?
Good idea. Only one problem: civil rights organizations will prevent any kind of effective policing, or attempts at forcing cultural changes.
Remember, the reason certain inner cities are solidly Black is the Whites were forced to flee in fear for their personal safety. If it gets too safe, gentrification could occur.
And it wont deter thefts either. In Europe, if all German carriers block a stolen phone, they'll just hock it over the border in Poland. This wont be that much harder from the US given things like Ebay and cheap international shipping. Also you're seriously underestimating the number of suckers out there who will buy "Cheap Iphone, Network unlocked (not lying)".
I disagree. It's better to do something than nothing.
If thieves can't sell their stolen goods in Germany and need to do it in Poland, then it'll act as a soft deterrent and lower the attraction of the deed. Compound that with the lower living standards in Poland and competition from every other thief in Germany, and the lower prices will get will further act as a soft deterrent.
And if it becomes a big problem, you can then pressure Poland (perhaps through the EU) to join the database.
Sure the thieves can then sell to the Ukraine, but.. read above.
In any case I keep hearing about this European-wide stolen device database but honestly I'm not so sure it exists other than on paper. A few years ago I had my phone stolen in Germany and when I called my carrier, they said there was nothing they could do (I had all of the phone's documentation + receipts).
Maybe it was implemented in the meanwhile, but I wouldn't bet my phone on that.
if the killswitch is built into the os then you can't replace the os(or the killswitch is no good). then you need also a system for transferring rights on who has access to the switch.
besides.
now here's an important bit..
there is ALREADY a banlist for stolen phones! it blocks by phone imei.
the iphones are valuable as parts, so even that does nothing to curb stealing them. now if there wasn't a market for iphone parts...
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
Perhaps a decade ago, makers of GSM phones here in Europe advertised intensely for the ability to kill stolen phones using the IMEI number. Basically they stated that if your phone got stolen, all you needed to do (besides filing a police report) was to report it to the carrier. They could block the IMEI number in an international database, so when the phone was turned on it would either be rejected from any GSM network or downright be bricked.
But it turned out that not only was the support for the database lacking - most of the East-European countries, as well as the Middle-east and South America - didn't use it at all, allowing stolen phones to be used freely - the supposedly immutable IMEI number could relatively easy be altered as well.
In order not to repeat this, the new system must be carrier-independent as it seems certain regions are so saturated with stolen phones that blocking them would take away maybe 80-90% of these carriers revenue. The new system must use the standard protocols on the mobile networks and be able to disable any phone connected to any carrier without the carrier being able to prevent this. The disabled phone should display a message about the phone being stolen. who the rightful owner is, perhaps offering a reward for the return, and the ability for the owner to unblock the phone using a code shipped with the phone if he/she got it back, something like a PUK code for the phone itself. Perhaps the code also could be used to block the phone in the first place, avoiding the need to involve carriers etc.
"For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong." -- H.L. Mencken (1880-1956) --
A phone cut off from the network wont receive the wipe command from the MDM (Mobile Device Management).
Its as if this was rocket science or something ...
You know you can remote wipe it ... BEFORE they blacklist it ... right?
In Europe, if all German carriers block a stolen phone, they'll just hock it over the border in Poland.
Except they won't ... because they share the same database ... and thats the point, the US will be doing the same, and joining the GSM association database so that you can't take an American phone to Germany either.
This wont be that much harder from the US given things like Ebay and cheap international shipping. Also you're seriously underestimating the number of suckers out there who will buy "Cheap Iphone, Network unlocked (not lying)".
And Ebay will put an end to that when they get tired of refunding paypal transactions for stolen phones.
Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
A revolution based on love!
3G and LTE networks already supports blacklisting IMEI numbers of stolen phones.
Has worked for decades in Western Europe.
In most nations with a high rate of criminals and stolen goods, the telecoms decide to ignore the international IMEI blacklist. So a phone stolen in Western Europe can only be used in Eastern Europe, USA and other 3rd world countries. If the telcos where to shut down stolen phones, they would lose half of their subscribers, the teclos really like the availability of low cost (read stolen) feature and smart phones. They profit at least as much as Apple.
Apple earns around 35% on the sale of an iPhone. The iPhone 5 = $649. Apple profits $227.
If AT&T sells the same phone, they probably buys it around $400, sells it for $199, and loses $200. If a stolen phone is sold to a customer, AT&T does not lose $200, but will get the future income from the phone. Dataplnas and all. It is the telecoms that makes the most profits. They should implement stolen IMEI blocking worldwide. Even in the US.
You mean, you have to wait until the device checks in before you can wipe it.
This is not rocket science.
It's almost as if you made that statement with no knowledge of how these systems work.
Never been to Europe.
That was a statement, not a question. Germans cant even get stolen cars back from Poland, so much so they never even bother trying to change or even obscure the VIN and engine number.
Even then, if Poland isn't far enough, try Latvia or Romania or Russia. Once outside the EU, your fucked. Even inside the EU you're still pretty fucked. Besides this, do you honestly think US and Canadian telco's will share info? What about Mexico, Panama, Dominican Republic... Lets not even consider states that aren't friendly with the US like Cuba.
No, they wont.
Why, because a buyer in Brazil or China doesn't give a crap that it's stolen because it wont be locked in their countries.
This entire idea fails because it puts too much faith in criminals following instructions.
Also, carrier locks are country based. I can buy a phone locked to AT&T in the US, bring it to Australia and it will work on every telco here. Legitimately.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
What magical part of the world do you live in where there are no thieves? I'm seriously interested, I would love to live somewhere like that, but I'm fairly certain neither it nor Peter Pan actually exist.
Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
Police should try and catch the thief and return the phone to it's owner. GPS won't work, unless the thief has switched it on. Cell tower information would probably be sufficient enough to get near the thief. If word gets out that teams of cops are actually on full-time phone retrieval duty, thieves are going to be a lot more cautious about stealing phones. The reason this happens so much is that the chance the thieves get caught is way too low.
Blocking the IMEI means the thieves will change the IMEI on the phone. Yes, they figure out how to do that and for most not-so-recent phones there is a black market where you can get that done. For the popular new phones, it usually will get done soon after the phone gets on the market. It's a software/firmware thing usually, so IMEI blocking is not sufficient. If there is no software solution, often the baseband chip gets replaced, or the phone gets exported to a country that doesn't use foreign IMEI blocking lists. I'm fairly certain that thieves will find a solution for the kill-switch too, given time.
I was promised a flying car. Where is my flying car?
Brilliant! Changing things so that people don't commit crimes really would reduce crime! I wonder why nobody has thought of that before! Let's "modify culture" and our crime problem is solved! You, sir, should work for the police!
You are correct, except for the fact that carrier locks are country based. They are not (I think they are bound to MCC+MNC of the IMSI), in fact this is how most people learn their phone is locked, they go abroad and try a local prepaid SIM.
this does not lead to an increase of cases where the thief invokes the "kill-switch" of the victim first. The problem with people who make laws is that they think criminals have the same line of thinking as them.
Windows 2000 - from the guys who brought us edlin
We all know there is no security without physical security.
But let's forget about that for a second.
Even if you make it ueber-secure (not like today when in many Samsung devices the IMEI is actually in some obfuscated file in the efs partition!) and you really manage to bound each device to an IMEI you still have the challange of managing the blacklist/"nuke from the orbit" authorization list.
It costs 5-10-15EUR to send a box full with phones across Europe, and no customs at all if it's within EU.
You need to have (at least) EU-wide database. How do you manage that? What recourse you have if you bought your phone in Germany, you leave in Belgium and it gets blacklisted by an operator in Bulgaria based on some typo from a dodgy police station in village? How can you argue that (hint: they don't even use the latin alphabet in Bulgaria)?
We had enough of this country-coded DVDs and network locked phone and all the crap. Any more of this and will give (another) unfair advantage to your operator: the only safe phones will be the ones bought directly, they know for sure it's legit. Anything else is a risk.
The real way out here is just to have police go after the thieves. Even the older phones could be tracked well enough and with some social engineering (if you had access to the list of calls) you could find out who has the phone without any GPS or camera and whatnot. However, they just don't bother even if you give them the position of the phone within meters, inside a single-house and a picture of the user.
Having just purchased a stolen phone on ebay (the Police are looking into it), and having now read up on how easy it is to sell a stolen phone in the tat bazzar, it does seem to be ebays problem, as they are not doing enough to stop it. For starters sellers should have to register the IMEI number with ebay who automatically check it against the stolen list before it goes up for sale. When reported stolen the phone is locked it all countries not just the UK.
But it is also down to the owner for not securing it using the phones security features, and also keeping the £500 item safely locked away. Waving a wad of £500 around in the air in the middle of a busy street is asking for trouble yet plp do it with $700 iphones.
But it is also down to the owner for not securing it using the phones security features, and also keeping the £500 item safely locked away. Waving a wad of £500 around in the air in the middle of a busy street is asking for trouble yet plp do it with $700 iphones.
And now San Francisco and New York attorneys general are calling a 'Smartphone Summit' where representatives from Apple, Google, Samsung, and Microsoft are due to meet and discuss the implementation of a industry-wide 'kill switch' system."
As other posts have pointed out, all the technology is already not just available but deployed.
IMEI blocking and both OEM and 3rd party apps which can encrypt, track, remote wipe.
Of course, most of these suppose that the user opts in or activates in some way, but I think I'd prefer that than a mandatory, Govt.-sponsored option.
It would probably work just as well as those fantastic 'smart' programs that block your credit card "for your protection" whenever you visit a new country.
I can see it now, message appears on your screen when you get off the plane, "you have visisted an unauthorised destination...bricking phone for your protection"
Europe blocks the IMEI number of the phone. Granted, on some phones it is possible to change IMEI, but it is neither simple nor easy. It also carries a significant prison sentence in the UK. Once IMEI is blocked, provided the phone providers respect the shared blacklist (which virtually all do) then that phone is not going to connect to a network, regardless of what SIM you have in it. Thus it becomes worthless. Seems pretty simple, TBH.
they have allways had the kill switch. it will cost them zero dollars to implement it. if they can track you for billing and cut you off when you dont pay,they can track your stolen phone and shut it down.
It's not enough you can remotely wipe your phone, you need to remotely set it on fire.
A machine that offers cash for a phone on the spot is certainly not going to drive down phone thefts.
I am very small, utmostly microscopic.
Anyone notice that Blackberry was not invited to this summit? Is it because they're well protected...? Or is it that they're not popular? And if so, then why was Microsoft invited?
A lot of Japanese phones will disable all functionality if they don't connect to the proper network with a valid SIM. If you don't pay you Bill, it turns into a paperweight. If you leave the country for too long, it turns into a paperweight. If you report it stolen, they block it from the network and it turns into a paperweight immediately. If you remove the Sim card, guess what happens? Yeah, it turns into a paperweight. This includes Softbank android phones made by SHARP. They are nice phones, but I can't even get to the address Book in my old one.... And no, they basically can't be hacked. It's not like people haven't tried. Now, there are good things and bad things about this system. The good thing is that anyone who steals your phone basically only ends up with a high tech paperweight. The bad thing is that you have even less control over your own phone and your phone will basically self destruct if hacked.
Bloomberg will likely ban them to end the crime of stealing them.
...are we wanting the manufacturers to be responsible for people's personal belongings?
Rather than respond to everyone, I'll try to summarize. The grandparent implied there was no money in the marginal business of providing replacement phones for those that are stolen. I am not saying that selling replacement phones is $Phonemaker's only business. I doubt that it equals their main business. I am saying that every extra sale -- defined as two phones to the same customer -- is "found money" in that there is no other way they would make this revenue except for someone being held up at knife point on 5th Avenue. And so, most importantly, $Phonemakers have zero incentive to stop the flow of "found money". It is going to take (1) a third party stepping in to put a stop to this deliberate inaction because $Phonemakers would have to be out of their minds to stop it on their own or (2) $Phonemakers finding a conscience.
I come here for the love
... What about my bike that got stolen at a Mcdonald's restaurant where cameras are all around ? All the cops did was taking my testimony, nothing else, not even checking the damn cameras.
Steal my Blackberry Z10, I dare you.
1) I can track it's location via GPS. So I know where you are.
2) If I don't get it, I can brick it on you.
And oh, no Blackberry phone has EVER been rooted so good luck with that idea.
Why would they "spend MANY thousands of dollars of taxpayer money on investigation, arrest, booking, court hearing/trial, and imprisonment for a $500 piece of electronics" when they could spend MANY thousands of dollars of taxpayer money on investigation, arrest, booking, court hearing/trial, and imprisonment for a $10 bag of weed?
Remember "News for Nerds, Stuff that Matters"? Help make it a reality again! http://soylentnews.org
I had a couple iPhone 3GS that I didn't want anymore, so I tried one of those ecoATM things once. They do require a scan of a drivers license as a form of ID, for whatever that is worth. But the big issue is how much they lowball the offered price compared to what you can get almost anywhere else. The machine offered $20 each for the 8GB phones (in near mint shape), so I declined the offer, and sold them myself on eBay for a bit over $100 each.
Even a desperate thief should be able to find a place to fence a stolen phone that gives them more money than those scam machines...
Remember "News for Nerds, Stuff that Matters"? Help make it a reality again! http://soylentnews.org
If my wallet is stolen, I lose under a hundred bucks, and some plastic which I'll have to re-order.
I'll also have to go through some annoyance in getting my driver's license re-issued (I think about $15) and various health/rewards cards, so let's say maybe a few hundred bucks of hassle. The thief may get a few twenties in cash, and if he's lucky get away with using the stolen plastic before it's cancelled without getting caught.
Your average current-gen smartphone runs around $550-750+
Not only does it cost you more, but the incentive to steal it for easy money is greater.
Again, you need to solve that cultural issue too. And effective policing isn't where crime is eliminated.
And, you can always just leave. It's not like new york city is underpopulated.
you already tried that. it failed.
In a suburb 50km outside of toronto, in a small city with 150'000 people, adjacent to another small city with 125'000 people, outside of the big city with 6 million people, on a street where I know everyone's name. The way we stiffle crime around here is by hiring your neighbour's children to do odd chores like garden work and snow shovelling before he reaches the age where he might decide to annoy his neighbours. That's about it. We rarely even lock our doors.
Again, police don't modify cultures. That's exactly your cultural problem. You're thinking way too late.
And lots of people have thought of this before. I live in a country that does exactly that. Which is why my neighbourhood lives with doors open and alarms disabled.
You might want to try looking outside of your screwed up country for a change. You'll find that a lot of people don't have your problems at all.
Putting a user defined password or code on the phone by default in the initial setup process would help a lot. A lot of thieves don't really steal phones for the value of the phone as a device, but rather they're more interested in theft of service. (And that service can add up to over $100 in value.) They'll do what they can to rack up a lot of calls in a short time and use up those minutes on long distance and wireless browsing.
I know, I lost a fairly low end Motorola pre-paid and some asshole still racked up a lot of minutes. Managed to get the phone cancelled and number transferred (which was also a PITA and took multiple calls over about three days), but I was still getting call-backs and stuff from loan offices and people this person was doing business with. When asking for such and such and when are they going to pay, my replies to those calls are "Good luck with that, that bitch is stealing minutes on the phone I lost and wouldn't answer or return it after I called my phone's number a dozen times. And you expect her to pay?" I suspect the one or two calls from prospective employers asking for her didn't go so well either.
If only my phone would lock and needed a code before calling out, this situation would have been less of a problem as thief would have likely dumped it back where they found it.
You should have told them that your cell phone was on the bike. And offered each cop a Big Mac.
Here's the thing that annoys me - Apple *already* has this technology for all Mac computers built after 2011.
There's no way to override the firmware password on newer Macs - you used to be able to do all sorts of tricks like removing a memory module, or manually accessing the NVRAM parameters. Now owners need to press the "secret keypress" (or bring to an Apple authorized retailer), read an encrypted keycode off of the monitor (probably based on the current password and the hardware ID of that particular system), go into the Apple store and prove you're the owner, and Apple Employees contact Apple HQ to generate an unlock USB key for you.
It would be exceedingly simple for them to implement the same thing in phones. Phone locked? Need to bring to an Apple store to prove ownership before unlocking (probably also wipe the filesystem encryption key, so the phone's contents are not revealed). Make it check the lock status in firmware as part of the bootloader so even a manual DFU needs to unlock first to prevent smarter thieves from just re-flashing the phone (come to think of it, with the new firmware security and signed blobs, this should already be possible - if a phone is reported stolen, simply refuse to sign a firmware-blob for reflash).
A "half-way" position would be to allow the phone to unlock if you connect it to a computer you've synced with.
To encourage people to use the lock (who typically don't like unlocking every 15 min or whatever), have a minimum requirement to enter the password once whenever the phone starts, so while someone may still steal your phone, if it's ever turned-off, battery runs out, or is reset, it requires the unlock code be entered.
"Nothing strengthens authority so much as silence." - Charles de Gaulle
This issue has already been addressed. The Galaxy S4 has hardware for LOJACK. Even after a factory reset. here's a link http://www.zdnet.com/new-lojack-solution-for-galaxy-s4-makes-theft-meaningless-7000016433/
Simply being able to set a passcode to really turn off an iPhone would really help. Currently phone thieves simply turn the phones off until they get home so you can't track it. If they needed a pass code it would give police or owners time to track them, or at least force thieves to use something to block their signal until they go dead.
don't walk around with a $600-800 handheld computer for a phone.
"NYC Mayor Michael Bloomberg said overall crime in New York City was up 3.3% in 2012 due to iPhone, iPad and other Apple device thefts." Riiiight, blame the increase in crime on iDevices instead of liberal policies that always result in increased crime. That's a good one! Nice diversion there Nanny Bloomberg! Look bonehead, if it weren't an iDevice it would be a wallet, a purse, or someone's firearm - oh, oh, wait, I forgot, New Yorkers can't have those anymore... or Big Gulps...
Kinda funny. Around here, home break-ins aren't treated much better than cell phone thefts unless there's a cluster of them or they do it when someone is home (actual home invasion). Otherwise, provide your insurance company with the file number for the police report. However, they will turn your house upside down while "investigating the break-in". They're really just looking for drugs, because a good portion of break-ins happen because someone heard there were drugs in the house. All the junior to mid-grade cops have never known any reality without the war on drugs.
- T
My group had 2 unlocked smartphones stolen in 2 days of Barcelona touring.
One of the guys works for AT&T mobility. He was able to trace the location of the phone to somewhere in central Africa. It was gone and couldn't be blocked from cell network access.
His other phone ... that I was borrowing, then returned ... was stolen the following day off a table INSIDE a restaurant - nowhere near any door. I'd wiped all my data off it the night before. It had a local SIM with about $2 worth of time on it, but it was also unlocked for global use. It showed up in Indonesia a month later. Couldn't block cell network access on it either.
In the USA and Europe, the IMEI can be used to disable the phone on all cellular networks. That is not the case in these other countries. There was nothing to be done, the phones were exported, wiped, resold and are probably being used happily. Stopping use on cellular networks is NOT enough. The device needs to be locked as a brick to make it only useful as parts, not a complete device.
After the losses, we worried about data loss and access to personal and corporate records. People use their smartphones without any passwords all the time to connect to corporate email accounts, etc... Just the contacts held inside those devices and connected via google are priceless.
When we got new devices, we used full system encryption and mandatory non-trivial passwords that lock after X minutes. It sucks. It really does, but it is better than worrying about corporate data and personal data getting out. Sure, a stolen device is still gone, but at least the data (internal SDHC) is encrypted. My Nexus4 doesn't have an external SDHC card or I'd know if that can be encrypted too.
It has been about 6 months with the encryption. I haven't seen any slowdown on the device. My 17 character password is designed to be easy to type, while still being long enough. It is not used anywhere else. It is an inconvenience, but that's fine.
I travel a bunch. Just returned from 2 weeks in South Africa and Europe. A month earlier, I was in Seoul and Nepal. Travel around the USA happens too, but not so often. Plannnig a trip to Japan and Singapore in the fall.
Encryption is my friend and not just for smartphones, but for my netbook running Debian too. the netbook as a small partition for WinXP that I can show to customs in different countries as needed. I've never had to do this, but I'm ready.
Why would they "spend MANY thousands of dollars of taxpayer money on investigation, arrest, booking, court hearing/trial, and imprisonment for a $500 piece of electronics" when they could spend MANY thousands of dollars of taxpayer money on investigation, arrest, booking, court hearing/trial, and imprisonment for a $10 bag of weed?
Because they are Federally mandated to do so. That's why they will routinely release serial killers out of prison early in order to keep some teenage pot smoker locked up. Besides, when have you ever heard of a bag of pot being worth $10? After the prosecution is done with their movie industry accounting tricks that little bag has a "street value" of $50,000.
$10 "bag"?! I'm not sure you can even get a joint for $10 these days, let alone a "bag"...
I was in the Annapolis, Md. mall and saw a machine that said give us your cell phone for cash. Obviously no questions were asked. That's part of the reasln for phone theft if not most of it.