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Obama Praises Amazon At One of Its Controversial Warehouses
theodp writes "In his first term, President Obama was a big booster of indie bookstores. But on Tuesday, the President chose to deliver his speech on Jobs for the Middle Class at one of Amazon's controversial fulfillment centers in Chattanooga, TN. 'Amazon is a great example of what's possible,' said Obama, who also toured the 'amazing facility' where workers can make $10.50-$11.50 an hour as an employee of Integrity Staffing Group, 'may also be eligible for medical and dental benefits', and 'must be able to stand/walk for up to 10-12 hours' in temperatures that 'will occasionally exceed 90 degrees.' So, are '21st century migrant workers' the new middle class?"
-Obama, overlord of Earth.
Well, at least it's not Canada.
So he likes to shop at indie book stores with his daughter, and somehow this makes him a hypocrite by giving a speech at an amazon warehouse? The speech itself wasn't really about books anyway:
In his speech, Obama outlines the areas he believes the country needs to focus on "if we want to create good jobs that pay good wages in durable industries." Among these priorities, listed in order of mention, are: manufacturing and high-tech jobs, infrastructure jobs, and clean energy jobs
Some people die at 25 and aren't buried until 75. -Benjamin Franklin
I'm seriously failing to see what about these jobs makes them "controversial." The pay and working conditions seem to be completely in line with the type of work it entails. It's certainly better than minimum wage or a true "factory" job (in terms of safety).
Keep up the selfishness... Keep buying the cheapest crap from the cheapest place possible, without regard for where you're spending your money, and this is what you get. After all, there's "free shipping", right?
Welcome to the another manifestation of the culture of "I've got mine. Fuck you."
I don't respond to AC's.
well it is the Amazon duh
The Middle-Class is being redefined as people who can afford basic necessities like food, shelter, clothing and medicine. Want money to enjoy life beyond that? Tough luck!
When did ~$24k gross a year become middle class? Did I miss a memo or have I been living in fantasy land? (11.50 per hour * 40 hours per week * 52 weeks)
He's like all politicians, just a Corporatist who happens to have either a "D" or "R" after his name.
The cow says "Moo." The dog says "Woof." The Timothy says "Thanks, valued customer. We appreciate your input."
There is no Middle Class anymore. Since the Middle Class stopped wearing suits and settled for business casual, everybody became Blue Collar.
Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
Funny how hard it is to live on one of these 'good, high wage jobs'. Working in tech obviously I'm used to high compensation for my time, but I've done military, machining, making packaging for frozen dinners, etc etc. It's funny how the more physically demanding the job is the harder they want you to work to have to joy of keeping your job while at the same time paying you 1/4th what you make with a desk job. There is a skill difference in the work obviously but I don't think anyone should go home after a 40+ hr week with too little money to live. You can get by on 11 in the burbs but what if your job is in the city? Somehow Starbucks employees are just supposed to "get by". Getting by usually means 25+ year olds still living with their parents because their full time job isn't enough to be able to afford a place of their own.
Funny how Walmart offered suggestions on budgeting recently that excluded the cost of heating (don't remember if transportation was on there or not, but heck bus both ways to a 5 day a week job will probably run you $80 a month at least so you'd be working for your first day and a half of the month just to get to work).
It must be a cold day in Hades.
Relentless war which the globalist elites are waging against any possible middle class opposition - CHECK.
Utter hypocrisy of moving employees off-book, into sub-contractor scams, where hours are guaranteed to be less than 30-per-week so as not to qualify for Obamacare - CHECK.
Big-$$$ campaign contributions and other goodies being laundered from Bezos through Gorelick and into the Chicago Machine - CHECK.
Hypocrisy of Martha's Vineyard vacationing politician, who otherwise would love him some indie bookstores, heading to the mother of all vertical bidnesses for a little facetime on the evening newz - CHECK.
What's next, an honest discussion of why Fuckerberg and Ballzmer and L-Word-ison really want all those H1B aliens?
Might be a good day to go long on some snowball contracts in Hell.
I worked for $8/hr at a graphics company on top a heat press in July without air conditioning and had to stand up for 8 hours straight with one crappy break and very little water when I was 18. Guess who I worked with from the staffing agency? People with criminal records. People who were chain smokers. People with gambling problems. People who had been divorced 3 times. And I guarantee, people who didn't have college degrees. So if you make stupid life choices, you end up at a crap job like that. As for me, someone else made the job sound better than it was and made a referral commission and I only worked there 1 month lol.
I sold dew worms to fishermen for a year to buy my first computer
And now you can't even buy a cup of coffee with what you'd get from doing that.
Everybody wants it all but doesn't want to work for it. Guess what? It doesn't work that way
You're right, the people who have it all don't work for it, they've already got it and now they spend their days on the golf course making the hard decisions of which division to amputate in order to make this quarter's numbers look good enough for a bonus.
They're temp workers without benefits, working 12 hour days, and get fired if they make any mistakes or say the wrong thing. Length of employment and available work is not guaranteed, but when there's work you're working overtime. Workers are searched off clock when entering the building, during break, and when they leave. You can't bring anything with you as the shipping center ships everything so how do they know if you're stealing it?
These are shitty, high stress jobs for people near the end of their ropes.
$10.50-$11.50 per hour works out to be around $21k-$24k a year on average, given a full 40-hour work-week. That's hardly middle class. It's actually much closer to the Census Bureau's defined poverty threshold. If the worker is the head of a traditional 4-person family, it actually puts him/her at or below the poverty line.
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
You have to work hard.
If working hard was all it took their would be far fewer people complaining.
soylentnews.org
Assume for a moment, everyone has the same ambition as you, and works their way into management. Who's left to do non-management tasks?
Not everyone can be on top, therefore its a fair expectation that people not on top should still be able to make a decent wage.
Its not about lack of drive or ambition or skill. Its about not fucking over your fellow humans just because you can.
...is not middle fucking class.
worldmobilenet.com -- World Prepaid Wireless Internet plans
These are shitty, high stress jobs for people near the end of their ropes.
Ah, so these are the new middle class American jobs!
"What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public." -Ray Zalinsky (Tommy Boy)
I thought the "middle class" used to be the shopkeepers.
You know, the people the Amazons and Walmarts of the world put out of business in the last two decades.
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
First of all, it's a warehouse job on the floor. If you are working out on the floor: It's going to be hot. It's going to be long hours of physical activity. Complaining about these things is like complaining that farm jobs involve touching dirt (oh no!) or that waitress positions are not glamorous positions.
Second, the warehouse jobs on the floor making 10-11.5 is quite high. I don't know about you but I don't expect it to make $100,000 a year especially for a temporary position. Management and staff positions might make more however these are not mentioned or considered.
Integrity Staffing places qualified candidates to work on assignments at Amazon Warehouses on a temporary basis. Assignments vary in length. There is no guarantee to the length of the assignment. Length of employment is based on client’s business needs which can change.
Third, Amazon sells more than books unless you haven't been paying attention. Mentioning indie bookstores does what exactly? Can I get diapers in bulk at my local indie bookstore?
Maybe the better point is how the President could do more assertive things for the country like in this op-ed piece rather complaining at a faux controversy.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
So what ? Not everybody in life travels the same road between point A and B. While I agree that you need to work hard, there's luck, chance and coincidence involved as well. Many people are also living in environments where they're talent and ability will get wasted.
Nobody is bitching and whining how they don't' have and others have. They're wining about the decline of middle class / shittier standard of living.
AFAIK, Middle class was never 26400 usd a year, walking/standing 11 hours a day on 30 degrees C. That's not a job, that's modern slavery.
You have for basic expenses, food, housing (forget about owning anything, property can't own) and two days off.
You should be sympathetic, because some of these people, maybe not "successful" financially, but they worked more than you have.
A bit of humility wouldn't hurt as well.
As long as temperatures don't exceed 451 degrees, they should be fine
Congratulations, self-made superstar! You grew up in a time of amazing opportunity. Care to wager on how that situation would play out today?
A word of warning: The ladder you climbed has been pulled up by you self-made types, convinced that it wasn't needed.
What are you talking about?
They're decent, honest jobs that pay a fair wage.
That's about as middle class as it gets.
Ummm, no. Physical working conditions are certainly great, but Amazon fulfillment warehouses are notoriously known for driving workers into a state of constant terror due to managerial abuse. A middle class job used to imply a sort of shielding from such things (not totally but certainly more than what you would see and still see at a minimum wage fast food joint.)
Middle class doesn't imply that anymore. And $10-$12 an hour is $24K. That is not below what is typically considered a low-end middle class salary. $24K was middle class twenty years ago. Not anymore. They are just above the limit that forces people to use social services.
I'm not saying these jobs are decent or honest (and thank God they are not Walmart salaries.) Any job with salaries above the poverty line is better than no job or poverty-line job, anytime, any day. And I'm not saying that for the type of job being performed, these are not fair wages. They are.
But let us not call them middle class wages. They are not. The rising cost of living, education and health care, and the continuous shift towards replacing full-time workers with part-time workers (or contractors) have pretty much made sure a $12/h job is not a middle class job anymore.
I don't see anything controversial about the warehouse. It's hot (or cold) unskilled manual labor. It pays above minimum wage, but like most jobs with unskilled labor, pays no benefits. They do not do so because it would not provide them with any competitive advantage vs. other fulfillment companies.
Breaking the "race to the bottom" to make sure you won't starve to death and have access to things like basic medical care when you are a productive member of society (fulfilling your end of the "social contract") is arguably a useful thing for government to do.
I worked in a warehouse in the summers when I was in college - grocery warehouse. That was... cripes, about twenty years ago. I made $9/hr, which was pretty good for the time. I wasn't trying to raise a family or anything on that, though; just help pay some tuition and books and stuff. Tuition was (much) lower then, the student loan rates were lower, etc.
Now, if the wages had kept pace with inflation, they'd be making over $14.50/hr. So they're actually making less in real terms than I did.
Along those lines, here's some food - so to speak - for thought: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/29/mcdonalds-salaries_n_3672006.html
PHEM - party like it's 1997-2003!
Plain and simple: Obama is turning America into a third world nation.
Don't give him too much credit - he has plenty of help.
The American Dream.
Fuck you if you can't make it.
As if that has not been the norm in other parts of the world since the beginning of time.
The reality is that the American Dream is not what it used to be, but it is certainly a much better alternative for a lot of folks in other countries. I'm not saying that we do not have a problem, but it is not one unique of this country, and it is far more fixable than what other countries are facing right now - think Greece, Spain, France or take your pick of any country in Latin America (where I'm from) or Africa.
You are correct; $11.50 an hour is not middle-class. However, that no-benefit salary is usually enough to make you ineligible for things like Medicaid (even though you aren't buying jack-$hit in medical care on that paycheck) or a Public Defender if you are accused of a crime.
It's a tragedy that a productive member of society that is fulfilling his/her end of the "social contract" still cannot obtain the things we would expect every civilized nation to make sure it's citizens have access to.
... is praising a very conservative employer. Why are we surprised by this? Obama has done more for the conservative movement than Reagan ever could have dreamed of. He gives lots of lip service to raising minimum wage, reducing tax burden on the lowest income brackets, making health care and education more accessible, etc; but his actions counter those promises. He has cut taxes more than Reagan, he has reduced government more than Reagan, we have seen union membership continue to plummet even more quickly than it did under Reagan, and we have seen college tuition rise even more than it did under Reagan. On top of all that minimum wage hasn't increased anywhere near as much as inflation, while employers have continued to amass more power over their employees.
I don't know why anyone is surprised to see Obama praising the Amazon warehouse. It cuts jobs and neglects the value of employees; those are classic conservative values. And don't try to claim that the massive health insurance industry bailout act (aka "ObamaCare") is somehow not a conservative act; Reagan would have crapped himself with excitement over signing a bill into law that forces average Americans to become consumers of for-profit businesses.
Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
When [our parents] time came to work they fought vehemently against taxes so they could keep even more of their wealth, and when they got to management they lowered wages and broke the unions their parents built, all to further increase their personal wealth at the expense of their peers.
Generalize much?
Also, not everybody's parents are from the same generation.
You can demand higher and higher pay but unless you also achieve higher and higher productivity, the capital will go elsewhere. Detroit would be a prime example.
In late August 2008, Then Senator Obama gave a little speech in a airline maintenance hanger in Kansas City. He complained about the Republicans and how much ground the middle class had lost, about healthcare. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xauuo1CvexE Listening to it now it still echos of somebody who didn't have ideas then and certainly has no ideas now. What's ironic about his middle class speech there is that American Airlines closed down that maintenance facility in 2010.. http://www.dallasnews.com/business/headlines/20100924-American-Airlines-closes-former-TWA-base-878.ece
Sounds like the same schtick over and over again.
Harrison's Postulate - "For every action there is an equal and opposite criticism"
We will rebuild, but this time there will be an eternal digital record such that our children might look back and see what we went though to earn their quality of life, and hopefully they will not take their wealth for granted the way our parents did.
It will be conveniently sorted by "pro labor" news outlets and "pro business" news outlets; when it comes time to do this over each side will just pick the version of history they prefer and stick with it. Kind of like how things work today...
Its just an example. Much more is possible.
Some of us learn from other people's mistakes and the rest of us have to be other people. -- Zig Ziglar
Seriously. I sold dew worms to fishermen for a year to buy my first computer (which I had to solder together myself). I taught myself to program, got hired to train other people, worked at solution delivery for a while, moved into architecture, then management, and now I'm the 1% that people complain about.
Everybody wants it all but doesn't want to work for it. Guess what? It doesn't work that way. Bitching and whining about what you don't have and how others have it all and how come you don't blah blah blah won't cut it. You have to work hard. While I was building my first computer my house didn't even have running water.
Ask me if I'm sympathetic.
I bet you had to walk to school in the rain, uphill both ways! I'm not complaining that others have what I don't. I make a comfortable salary and think I'm well compensated. I complain because I see people around me getting the shaft. I understand that when fewer and fewer people have good opportunities, and the profits from increased productivity go more and more to the owners of capital, it negatively affects society. Our system works better when more people can have real opportunity.
"What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public." -Ray Zalinsky (Tommy Boy)
If you raised the price of labor to $20/hour, then Amazon would use more automation.
And that'd probably be a net good for the economy, moving it higher-tech, and creating better jobs in tech than the ones automated away. Unless you're a Luddite who thinks automation is bad and we should keep all jobs manual forever.
The $20/hr minimum wage in Denmark is a big boost to innovation and the country's economy, for example.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
Seriously. I sold dew worms to fishermen for a year to buy my first computer (which I had to solder together myself). I taught myself to program, got hired to train other people, worked at solution delivery for a while, moved into architecture, then management, and now I'm the 1% that people complain about.
Everybody wants it all but doesn't want to work for it. Guess what? It doesn't work that way. Bitching and whining about what you don't have and how others have it all and how come you don't blah blah blah won't cut it. You have to work hard. While I was building my first computer my house didn't even have running water.
Ask me if I'm sympathetic.
You are awesome. That was sarcasm btw. Great that you went from the bottom to the top. Want a cookie or a start for that? A documentary by Michael Moore? You are not the only one. I came to this country with no language skills, working at McDonalds or driving fork lifts. I climbed all the way up so now I'm a nice, comfortable upper-middle class position.
Your house didn't have running water? Woopie doo! I was in a god-forsaken, roach-infested shanty town nothing but with water and sugar for food and nothing more. Since you pretty much went on a dick contest (mine is better than you, you lazy slobs), I might as well join and show you mine.
Seriously, you are one conceited cookie. Your struggles? Big. Fucking. Deal. You think your struggles and successes somehow make you fundamentally better than those who don't make it?
Newsflash. They. Fucking. Don't. They. Don't. Qualify. You. To. Assign. Ethical. Scores. On. People's. Successes. Or. Misfortunes.
More newsflash. That was what you just did by making a work ethics comparison between yourself against the less fortunate.
Yes you worked hard, and no one will ever take that away from you. But guess what, you were lucky to live at a particular place and time and circumstances that allowed you to fully reap the rewards of your hard labor, rewards that were rightfully yours.
No one makes it out to the top 100% by themselves, without any assistance of social circumstances and luck, independently of hard they work. Anyone who thinks otherwise is full of hubris.
Despite all my successes that came out from a zero that most folks (possibly not even you) would never even come to understand, I would never come to believe, despite my success, that people fighting for better working conditions is bitching and winning about what they don't have. Things have changed to the point that they are truly dysfunctional. It doesn't really matter why as the problem is extremely complex and defies simple (simpleton) characterizations.
It is absolutely stupid of you to characterize protesting, low-wage folks as bitching bitches that do not work hard, regardless of circumstances and context. But hey, if characterizing complex socio-economic phenomena with simpleton generalizations rock your boat... let them eat cake and shit like that.
this, right here.
Amazon is contracting these jobs out so they are distanced from the managerial abuses, lack of benefits, instability, and poor working conditions.
AND THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES HOLDS THIS UP AS A PARAGON TO BE EMULATED.
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
You don't understand. It's easier to make up a new definition to fit the conditions than it is to have the conditions fit the current definition.
The chocolate ration is increasing to 30 grams!
Plain and simple: the Elite is turning America into a third world nation.
FTFY
"What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public." -Ray Zalinsky (Tommy Boy)
I guess it depends on how you define "middle class". The traditional definition would more or less be people who are not rich, nor poor. That is how it came about in the first place. Back in the day, you were one or the other and the difference was stark. The rich had everything, the poor had nothing, the rich needed to do nothing, the poor had to do everything, etc, etc. The poor had at least one, and usually more than one, basic need un or under fulfilled. The poor generally belonged to the rich, literally, they were slaves or indentured to the land.
Well as time went on a "middle" class came about and grew. They weren't rich, they had to work for a living, but they weren't poor either. They had their needs met, they had some measure of independence and self determination, and so on.
By that standard, the vast majority of America is middle class. We have some actual poor, and some actual rich, but most people would be in a wide band that is the middle. There's great variance in that band, but the general statements of the original middle class are true.
Now some people believe that definition is (or should be) changed. That you divide it down further. A frequent term you see for people who are not poor, but are only a bit above it is "working class". Middle class is then something higher up above that.
The big problem is most people don't actually think as to how they define it. Online, people seem to define "middle class" as some nebulous kind of good lifestyle that they can't really define what it entails or what it takes to have, but that they think they should have and are mad they don't.
At any rate, it depends on how you wish to define things. There is no international standard or anything so really, you need to decide for yourself what terms and levels you think make sense. But yes, $24k/year can be "middle class" by some definitions, at least in cheaper areas of the country.
I don't think I said that, no.
I can see taking exception to the pay. It is valid to have the position that we should be more socialist, that people in lower skill jobs should make more. Not everyone will agree, of course, but it is a valid position to have and to argue. However this concept that there is something bad about having to stand and move all day for work, or that it won't be in a climate controlled office. Oh give me a break.
It is just part of this bias that Mike Rowe calls a "war on work" as though only jobs sitting at a desk are real jobs. That if you are out doing any sort of physical work, then your job sucks and you should aspire to something better. No, actually, it is perfectly valid to work like that and you can be quite happy. One thing I'll say for sure is it helps keep you in better shape when you are active like that. I was a surveyor's assistant for a while, which meant working outside doing physical things. Man was I in good shape. I felt good too, had more energy than I do now where I sit at a desk all day. This is not to say I hate my desk job, I love doing computer support, but I am realistic about the benefits I got from being active all day.
So ya, I don't see what is wrong with these Amazon warehouse jobs, other than perhaps the pay. Trying to make it seem bad because people are standing and moving just smacks of laziness. "Oh those poor people, they have to actually use their bodies, which is actually healthier! Whatever will they do!"
If Amazon treats them well and their workplace is safe, then what is to complain about, environment wise?
Oh, and "golf-playing megalomaniacs like me" hire people and CARE about their well being
Then you're not a golf playing megalomaniac, are you?
You also don't "have it all". You may have decided that you have enough, and possibly even deluded yourself into thinking that enough is the same as all, but you don't have it all.
Maybe that is the problem, people can't just keep up with the Joneses they have to keep up with everyone they see on TV too. Maybe if more people could decide to find some attainable level of wealth to declare to be "enough" they could appreciate the value of the work they put towards that end.
It reminds me of Brave New World where the alphas and betas are reminded that they should be thankful that the deltas and epsilons were there to do the hard work and to not taunt them in order to preserve the social order, and reminding the deltas that they should be thankful for the alphas and betas to do all the hard thinking, and that they should be glad their life is so easy. But no matter how hard a delta works they'll never become an alpha, and nobody encourages them to aspire to become one.
If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
These are shitty, high stress jobs for people near the end of their ropes.
Ah, so these are the new middle class American jobs!
Exactly. This is the new reality. What we used to call "working class" is being re-defined as "middle class", and the new American Dream is "just getting by."
"Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
--- Jerry Garcia
i guess he is really just another fucking republican after all. corporations are people and people are nothing.
The issue with Amazon is while they offer great service and the lowest prices, they are forcing not only other businesses to go under but also dictating the prices of goods in the market. Many companies have a Minimum Advertised Price (MAP) policy in order to keep an even playing field for their resellers. Amazon is so large, and buys so much, that do not obey to MAP policies - they do what they please. If the manufacturer doesn't like this, they can choose not sell to Amazon and subsequently lose sales in the millions of dollars.
In the wake of low prices and convenience, we are seeing the extinction of a free-enterprise market and the transition of skilled laborers to box-stuffers....all run by the efficiency of a computer system.
There was a time in the US when the "working class" actually banded together for higher wages and benefits. There was a time when Americans cared enough about the future of their children to take the necessary steps to guarantee them a better future, whether they were garbage collectors or brain surgeons. The lessons learned from the affects of Robber Baron Capitalism and The Great Depression have been utterly lost. Utterly Lost.
What has happened is(for lack of a better term, and a nod to Queensryche's 1988 masterwork, "Operation Mindcrime") that the 1% that rule America discovered how to "divide and conquer", as if that tactic hasn't been used countless times through history with the same results. Since the 1980s(yea, you've heard this before) the 1% have successfully rolled back the social safety nets, which in the past were mainly affecting the poor. Now the middle class is sliding down into poverty.
This is no "market adjustment" or "realignment of labor forces". This is nothing less that a concerted and tightly executed plan to turn the US into a third world country, where the vast majority of the population is poor, marginalized and has little or no political or economic power, where a small elite controls all facets of society.
The lessons learned from the affects of Robber Baron Capitalism and The Great Depression have been utterly lost. Utterly Lost...
We play the game with the bravery of being out of range
But tell me our dear 2008/2012 Obamaniac liberals Slashdot liberals did not see it coming...
The jobs described sound like most entry-level labor-class jobs - whether it's a framer, and landscaper, a farm worker, feed store employee, or any other manual job which requires very little training. Those never were middle class jobs, and neither is a warehouse job.
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
Contrast that with the Keystone Pipeline - high level blue-collar jobs with further job creation in the refineries. If we do not build the pipeline here, the Canadians are likely to build one to the ocean and export the stuff to be refined somewhere else and the result will be the loss of well paying jobs. When we choose to not develop ANWR and states elect to not drill for oil and gas - then we are shipping these jobs overseas.
Here in Europe, many people look upon Obama as the biggest US-caused / US-related disappointment in more than a century.
Religous speak to God. Insane are spoken to by God. When all shut up, one can finally hear Shostakovich in peace
You retrain that person for something more in demand. Of course, this requires your welfare system to not suck, and to include an educational component (Denmark has free university, and also has free continuing education to retrain unemployed workers).
The U.S. could do it better, if anything, since it has some economies of scale. The main advantage being small gives Denmark isn't efficiency, but social cohesion to allow it to set up such a system in the first place: people actually feel responsible for the progress of the country, not just getting themselves rich.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
... given a full 40-hour work-week ...
Except that with a job like that, they're probably not only paying low wages but also employing the people part-time so the company need not pay benefits of any kind. So the person maybe is only working 25-30hrs per week, and then they have to go get a second job of the same kind. Nice, huh?
I only post comments when someone on the internet is wrong.
He got his 2 terms, so, now, its all about perception, getting to the finish line with some style and substance and hoping to pass the POTUS seat to another Democrat. Can't blame him I s'pose.
Interestingly, then suppose they find another can of beans a day or two later, and no one else has eaten in the meanwhile. The guy who's already eaten the last can of beans is in a better position to be able to eat this one too. He's (marginally) less desperate, but much healthier at the moment.
Support the EFF and Creative Commons. The war is coming, and they're supporting you...
Originally the term middle class was used to describe the wealthy merchant class that lived like born nobility but were not. In the US which never had nobility, upper class was redefined to be the european middle class, the wealthy merchants, and that left the boundary between middle and lower a bit ambiguous.
refactor the law, its bloated, confusing and unmaintainable.
I'm in good shape too, coming from almost nothing. Hardly the 1%.
Perhaps that's the difference, because at the end of the day, I'm haunted by the fact that the biggest difference between me and the guy who's pissed himself on the side of the road while begging for change is luck. Sure, I've got skills, I'm intelligent, I'm a damn hard worker, but at the end of the day, I was in the right place at the right time. No matter how much I chest thump otherwise, divine intervention, luck, chaos, karma, whatever you want to call it, it's always the biggest factor.
Heh. "Begging for Change."
Support the EFF and Creative Commons. The war is coming, and they're supporting you...
I feel like a dumbass for buying his bullshit during the elections (I didn't vote for him, but he seemed like a decent guy). I thought Cheney was a straight thinking, honest guy in 2000, too (didn't vote for that pair either).
There should be criminal penalties for lying politicians.
I have absolutely no interest in walking around in designer clothes, driving a Ferrari or hell even having a spare bedroom. All I want is a studio apartment (closest one to where I live is 50 miles away, minimum here is a 1 bedroom), clothes on my back, health taken care of and a spare $50 every month after my savings to buy a new game or two. I don't want kids, I don't want a dog, I don't want organic produce, I don't want Starbucks coffee. I'm not looking for a lot, but it's becoming harder and harder to maintain even that type of lifestyle and I think that's ridiculous.
Yes, yes, call me entitled. "When I was your age we didn't have video games!" if you will, but as AC said it seems a bit silly to assume everyone is out to become the next *insert FotM celebrity*. Some of us just want to be happy and not have to - stand/walk for 12 hours a day in 90 heat just to be a cog in a machine for a paycheck that may or may not even cover the lifestyle I referred to.
It makes sense, actually.
Total personal income (all) for the US in 2012: $13,401,868,693,000.
Divided by the current population of the US (312 million)
= $43,000 yr.
Working for 11.50/hour = $23,000/yr. 2 jobs = $46,000 yr.
So we see, the goal of Democrats is to make sure that wealth and income is distributed absolutely equally, with everyone working 2 shitty 40-hour jobs.
Then, FINALLY, it will all be "fair"!
-Styopa
The current occupant couldn't find it with a map.
First of all.... the conservative movement of the Reagan era is LONG gone. I think that's worth noting, because America was in a much different place in the 80's than it is today, but also because practically everyone running as a "Republican" today has values very far from what Reagan did.
If you simply want to do a quick "once over" of how the Obama and Reagan presidency differed, you only have to look at the economic picture. The U.S. was prospering under Reagan's administration. College tuition might have risen under Reagan, but so did people's ability to pay it, by and large. Obama has done practically nothing to "reduce government" that I'm aware of, either? Please cite these claims! If anything, he's consistently maintained practically all of the additional government baggage the Bush administration brought about (and which MANY people think needs to go!). TSA, Homeland Security ... these things didn't even exist in the Reagan days.
As far as this specific article? I'm not particularly surprised to see Obama praising an Amazon fulfillment warehouse. I simply agree that it's an "interesting" choice for a speech about middle class jobs. I have no problem with Amazon, and would probably agree with Obama that the company as a whole is an example of a U.S. tech success story. But certainly, the temporary, low paid labor positions the warehouses create aren't doing much to improve the nation's economic situation.
Overall, I'm very much in agreement that Obama has done an awful lot of maintaining policies and govt. programs put in place his Republican predecessor. But his predecessor wasn't following in Reagan's footsteps. (In fact, going back as far as Bush, Sr.'s presidency -- I remember reading an anecdote about Reagan feeling the man wasn't even fit to shake his hand at the inauguration, and didn't want to attend the White House dinner for him either. He only did all of that because it was expected of him as a tradition.)
I Was a Warehouse Wage Slave: My brief, backbreaking, rage-inducing, low-paying, dildo-packing time inside the online-shipping machine.
"... when you're late or sick you miss the opportunity to maximize your overtime pay. And working more than eight hours is mandatory. Stretching is also mandatory, since you will either be standing still at a conveyor line for most of your minimum 10-hour shift or walking on concrete or metal stairs."
"The gal conducting our training reminds us again that we cannot miss any days our first week. There are NO exceptions to this policy. She says to take Brian, for example, who's here with us in training today. Brian already went through this training, but then during his first week his lady had a baby, so he missed a day and he had to be fired."
It's 4 pages. Take the time to read it. It's depressing as fuck. I buy very little from Amazon anymore, and when I do, it's usually from individual sellers, not "Amazon" itself.
Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
40 years of productivity gains
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
How about instead of criticizing a company for creating all these jobs, innovating an entire new industry, producing incredible value for customers, and instead praise them for doing so?
Working for low wages sucks. I know plenty of people who do this. Often they are recent immigrants or children of recent immigrants. Both parents may need to work. Grandmother may need to live with them and do child care. Their kids might not have their own bedrooms.
But having wages of this level means they can have a (used) car, refrigerator, microwave, TV, running water and a flush toilet - things they may not have had if they were unable to come to the US. So they are happy about that. But life is still challenging, though they get by and have a life as enjoyable as anyone else (I know unhappy rich people and happy poor people).
Low wages are an important price signal. It says perhaps you should finish high school, or go to college like 66% of high school graduates, or go to a trade school, or become an entrepreneur and start your own business (I know a Central American immigrant who started as a maid, saved up money, and now owns a chain of restaurants). Or perhaps you should move to areas with higher wages, like the Bakken or Eagle Shale areas.
Don't be like Washington DC and destroy thousands of potential jobs by saying Walmart should pay higher wages than the minimum wage. Don't force people to be unemployed.
If you really want to help these people, first let them have jobs (i.e. at the market wage) rather than try to manipulate their wages and making them unemployed. Give them a chance to make some money now. Then they may figure out they need to save to get more skills, move, stay in place and learn how to move into management, etc.
Then ask yourself why our unionized socialized government monopoly schools might not be preparing everyone for high-skill, high-productivity jobs.
want you to keep your schedule free so that they can move you around at their whim.
This seems to be a common pattern with many of these SHIT "recovery" jobs. They don't want to give you full-time hours, because they'd have to give you benefits. But they don't want to give you a stable schedule so you can get a second (or third) job to make ends meet. McDonald's is the specific case I remember hearing a report about.
If those rat-bastards want full-time availability, they should pay full-time wages.
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
So you provided your daughter with comfortable housing and food and education, in a place or near a place she could sell donuts, and gave her advice (maybe there are hurried white collar guys that can afford to casually buy donuts and coffee, and that makes their day happier)
I'd be a fool to call this priviledges but those little things can make a huge difference vs not even having them. Esp. when youth can't get a first job (been like that in my country for a decade or more, in the US it's becoming real but is very recent. It's called mass unemployment).
Burning Kindles would make a lot of toxic fumes.
Get free satoshi (Bitcoin) and Dogecoins
I would give you a +1, if I could.
The best thing about UDP jokes is I don't care if you get them or not
I completely agree with you. If you don't live in a country with free markets, which has a strong social safety net, and which is democratically organized, getting ahead in life (if you want that) is very difficult if not impossible. The people who do not, but want to, try to immigrate.
If you're telling me that there is "mass unemployment" in the US, I'm calling BS. It's 7.6% in the US, 7.7% in the UK, and 7.1% in Canada. I suppose there is supposed to be some conspiracy against youth. After my daughter moved to a new city to go to college she called me to ask for money (before her student loans came in). I told her to get a part-time job instead. She called me back in 20 minutes to say she had one, in the same vertical she was going to school for, and that it paid $12/hr. Meanwhile people her age were camped out in parks smoking dope, texting each other on their cell phones, and telling the cameras they were the disenfranchised youth of today and we should all feel sorry for them.
I know, I know. If you grow up in the middle of nowhere (like I did), you can't just walk out your door and get a job. That's why I sold worms, cut grass, and pumped gas while I tried my hand at writing articles and submitting them for publication to magazines like Compute! and Compute's Gazette.
Sadly, they never published anything from me. ;)
I am not interested in articles about life extension advancements.
I hope, for your sake, that as you are working on your CS degree you are also doing some jobs to gain experience. It will be really hard for you to break in, even at entry level, without some previous experience to show.
Idiot. Get your ignorant head out of your uninformed ass. Democrats and Republicans are both owned by big business. You're as bad as the watchers of Fox News who get riled up over the "evil democrats" and have never bothered to look in the mirror. There NO DIFFERENCE between these parties and you're a chump to fall for their finger-pointing.
Is it fair? No. Life isn't fair.
That was my attitude until the last few years. After '08 financial crisis, read about the top 1%, the ecnomy improving yet hiring was stagnant, the board members of investment firms getting off scott free & blaming lower level execs for breaking the law, increadible mis-management and wheel sleeping morons at the SEC, the American prison population quadrupling over the last 10 years, the whole-sale gutting of the right of habeas corpus, and the complete lack of caring or understanding of the removal of the many fundamental constitutional rights here, I am of a mind that its beyond "not fair", but the game is rigged and not rigged for me or you. And you'd be a fool to think otherwise.
Python: 'And then suddenly you have a language which says "we're all stuck with whatever the whiniest coder wants".'
In my benighted Red 19th-century state, the Kochs are running TV ads refuting the 1% / 99% argument, reassuring the working poor that they indeed are well-off and middle class. Pay no mind to your paycheck-to-paycheck, one middling medical issue away from oblivion, dear serfs!
Exerable assholes highly deserving of dying in a fire.
This is the best analogy you've heard??
In the US there are 14 cans of beans. And 15 people. (unemployment rate of ~7.5%) 14 people each get a can of beans, they are allowed to eat only 70% of the can and have to give 30% to the government. The government spends their 30% making sure that their hill of beans is protected from outside forces, that their supply of beans is secure and stable, that the 15 people have access to medical coverage, clean water, sewage systems, etc. The 15th person has access to the infrastructure the government purchased with the 30% of the other 14 people, and is given food stamps to get some beans of his own.
The 15th person complains he is poor. The other 14 people complain about government waste and how the government should be doing more for the 15th person (without raising their taxes). Meanwhile in other countries without free markets and social programs there is one can of beans and 10 people...
I am not interested in articles about life extension advancements.
"The first one started off selling doughnuts and coffee three years ago, she now has a college diploma, is in the jewellery business, and just bought her first house."
She got a college degree, found a job in the jewellery business and bought a house within _three_ years after having started off selling donuts/coffee? That's impressive, but I don't think that's a relevant example.
Yes, all completely true. One year college course in jewellery, moved to a small town to take a full-time job in the business, and she moves into her new house tomorrow. Mind you the house needs a lot of work, but that's really the point isn't it? She could be sitting in an apartment handing her money over to someone else and complaining about how the house of her dreams is out of reach and the people with all the money just keep getting richer. Instead she is building equity and settling for what she can afford.
And she doesn't have a car. She walks to work, though it takes her about 30 minutes to do so. No public transit in the small town.
I am not interested in articles about life extension advancements.
You can come up with a plan and work hard to improve a situation and still know that it's unfair and that it doesn't have to be that way. This false dichotomy between being a professional victim vs. being responsible for your actions is just a conservative talking point.
--Jeremy
Jesus was a liberal
(1) Negative net worth != losing wealth. If I own a rental property or few they would most likely be mortgaged leading to a negative net worth. Assuming you've covered the rents the individual would NOT be losing wealth but generating it as the mortgages are paid down over time and equity is built up. Its called leverage., mind you it increases risk. Some types of debt are not evil.
Because I was curious, and don't know how to convert Fahrenheit to Celsius in my head, I was about to enter "90 Fahrenheit" in Google. But after seeing the most recent NSA story on the front page and I just used KDE's krunner (Alt-F2), with nice standard-y, but somewhat unexpected results.
By the way, 90 Fahrenheit is 32.2 Celsius.
Ah, arrogance and stupidity, all in the same package. How efficient of you. -- Londo Mollari
Sadly, most of the people who work at Amazon aren't Amazons. Any company that wants to grow should hire a couple Amazons.
Know your pads. One time pad: good for cryptography. Two timing pad: where to take your mistress.
Govt doesn't need your taxes. Unlike you, Govt can print currency. Govt is imposing taxes to keep you subservient.
Casteism
What it sounds like is that you're working your good years away so you can have a bunch of money to be old and unhealthy. You have no hobbies? Any exercise? sex? any fun at all? You sound miserable.
-
Where is the outcry from all those who are scandalized by Walmart wages/benefits?? I wonder if the difference in reaction has to do with perception in the public eye. After all, Walmart has a conservative family at the helm, and Amazon has a progressive one.
It's been obvious from the day that Deepwater Horizon blew that Obama works for he corporations. Why is anyone surprised by this sort of thing from him? What we know now is that Bezos paid Obama.
"Exactly. This is the new reality. What we used to call "working class" is being re-defined as "middle class", and the new American Dream is "just getting by." "
That's the pre-WWII American Dream too. That lovely postwar boom and its lovely consequences finally petered out and the rest of the world figured out how to compete.
"This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
"Exactly. This is the new reality. What we used to call "working class" is being re-defined as "middle class", and the new American Dream is "just getting by." "
That's the pre-WWII American Dream too. That lovely postwar boom and its lovely consequences finally petered out and the rest of the world figured out how to compete.
No, that's just not true - I don't know why you would make such an assertion.
The American Dream, until very recently, was all about living in an environment where every individual can reach his full potential, as long as he is willing to make the sacrifices to get there. Since the founding of the country (and even before, to some degree), the Dream was achievable, but not often not by everyone. Note, first, that some people have greater potential than others, so it was not about everyone being able to reach greatness, but that everyone should have the opportunity to reach the pinnacle of their ability - something that was denied to slaves, women, minorities and other groups throughout the country's history. A situation that moral actors have had to fight and scratch over generations to correct and improve.
The tragedy is that just when the conditions are right for every individual to be accepted for who they are instead of any accident of birth, the Dream is being denied to the vast majority of people, because of an overbearing government that values the status quo over allowing the kind of disruptive progress that can occur in a land of opportunity for all.
"Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
--- Jerry Garcia